Forum logs for 12 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	Conservatives oppose abortion but are okay with war and capital punishment. (So am I - I think everyone in the capital deserves to be punished)	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	better watch out alf, he's coming for you.	[00:01]
*	asciilifeform already in pretty good punishment just by living here	[00:02]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes ? mod6 ? any of you went home with mosquito bite ? << heheh. i might have gotten a bite or two. i paid them back ~10x iirc.	[00:02]
nubbins`	nah i don't crochet	[00:02]
nubbins`	i think that was a lens flare	[00:02]
mod6	where i live these things are not just a nuisance like in .ar, but ubiquitous	[00:03]
asciilifeform	almost thick enough to walk on, here.	[00:05]
mod6	heheheh	[00:06]
mod6	'tis one of the reasons i enjoyed camping in the west so much, back east the mosquitoes try to carry you away.	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform install filtyers, make diesel ?	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	"More specifically, nobody wants a meritocracy based on actual accomplishment. What both camps really want is a meritocracy of values, that is, an aristocracy in which position is dictated by attitude and conduct."	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	heh. usians don't want to work no more. news at 99:99	[00:09]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: for all i know, my tank is full of precisely mosquito petrol even now.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	"hola nos quedamos sin trabajo mi esposo y yo y busco ayuda economica a cambio de sex para asi poder ahorrar algo y poner un negocio soy ama de casa no modelo ni profecional en esto soy bajita 36 años"	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	definitely a new one.	[00:12]
asciilifeform	^ brendafdez ?	[00:12]
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mircea_popescu	(housewife wants money to get sex change operation to earn money to start a business)	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	nah	[00:12]
asciilifeform	mega-inv3stm3nt.	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	this has got to be some sort of very specialised praying on aging usian expats.	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	it makes no sense outside of "a collection of fetishes liable to drive a 60 yo protestant dude with money"	[00:15]
asciilifeform	oughtn't it be in the king's inglisch then ?	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	maybe that's a giveaway	[00:16]
scoopbot_revived	The Trump Train is heading for the White House. Maybe. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/11/the-trump-train-is-heading-for-the-white-house-maybe/	[00:17]
asciilifeform	'You eat food you didn't grow and in many cases have no idea where it came from or what it looks like in nature. You rely on elaborate machines to get you places, but have no idea how they work. If your car stops, you have no idea what went wrong or what to do to fix it. In many cases, there is nothing you personally can do. To travel long distances you get into a big flying tube that leaves you completely at the mercy of othe	[00:20]
asciilifeform	r people. Your illnesses are treated by people who speak a language you don't understand and who give you little nondescript pills containing who knows what? Everything in your house connects to outlets in the wall that supply electricity created by processes you don't understand. You are reading this on a device that might as well be populated by fairies for all you know. And when something pops up saying you have a virus or	[00:20]
asciilifeform	the FBI has caught you downloading illegal material, you don't have a clue what to do. ... ... Most Americans are like that, kept alive and prosperous only through the exertions of people more productive, inventive and generous than they are. The productive view them not so much as loathsome insects, as puppies who will eventually go to the pound if they pee on the rug too often.'	[00:20]
asciilifeform	(dutch)	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	in this vein : went to pharmacy here, told pharmacist what i want, he went and fetched. cox-2 inhibitor, no prescription needed becasuse the criteria in argentina is "do you speak the language ? if not, get someone who does to write what you need down for you"	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	but i happen to speak that language.	[00:22]
asciilifeform	iirc banned by usg	[00:23]
asciilifeform	who still makes them ?	[00:24]
asciilifeform	(india?)	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	msotly banned because the idiots prescribed them like they prescribe anything, "forever", and they don't work forever.	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	but still unparalleled for extemporaneous intervention.	[00:25]
asciilifeform	how will pharma execs snort coke from golden toilets if prescribing were not forever, aha	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	and this was produced by merck. for "export", ie, "to be sold in sane countries"	[00:26]
asciilifeform	how will predatory castes of lawyers, 'social workerz', etc. eat	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	30 bux, 28 pills.	[00:26]
asciilifeform	spiffy	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	for their effectual purpose, good for a decade or more.	[00:27]
asciilifeform	like most pharma	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile usians with the same sort of problem get substandard care in the shape of cox-1&2 inhibitors in massive dossage.	[00:27]
asciilifeform	(the exceptions are few and generally well-documented)	[00:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7894 @ 0.00060669 = 4.7892 BTC [+] {3}	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	(if anyone is curious - yes the pharmacist tested me. he asked "what dosage ?" and i said uh... 100... maybe 50, no, not really. 80 ? turns out he had 60, 90 and 120. because 50 is not really quite enough and 100 is maybe a little too much, but if those are the options go for 100	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	and once i knew that, he had no further questions)	[00:30]
asciilifeform	what of classical dopes, of the 'down' or 'up' kinds, either	[00:31]
asciilifeform	also sold for the asking ?	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	not usually carried.	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	they're petrified of "insecuridad" these folks. like they live with the vikings or something.	[00:32]
asciilifeform	l0l	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	you'l lhave to get it at a major hospital.	[00:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45750 @ 0.00060783 = 27.8082 BTC [+] {6}	[00:32]
*	asciilifeform once visited a shop, not far from home, which sold gigantic safes. most of the pre-owned units were from pharmacies, and some had catalogues of the contents still glued to inside of door	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	safe, like fighter jet , is not the whole story.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	naturally.	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	and the people who actually have the whole story do not reaslly employ safes	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	or at least a story on my blog tends to support this theory.	[00:34]
asciilifeform	the safes existed to begin with on account of usg fiat	[00:34]
asciilifeform	(the drugs are cheap and their theft is no serious loss to the shop)	[00:34]
asciilifeform	story?	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	you recall, the whores.	[00:34]
*	asciilifeform thinks	[00:34]
asciilifeform	which whores	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2011/spargatorii-si-curva/ there.	[00:35]
assbot	Spargatorii si curva on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UBZaVo )	[00:35]
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asciilifeform	'One of the juicier scientific scandals of recent times involves Dutch psychologist Diederik Stapel, who admitted to fabricating many of his research results. A full list of Stapel's falsified articles hasn't been published, but the titles of some of his articles (some of which may not be tainted) offer insights. The article that outed him was "Coping with Chaos: How Disordered Contexts Promote Stereotyping and Discrimination.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	" ... ... Lots of emphasis on stereotyping, how we construct reality, and so on. Nothing that challenges the basic assumptions of social scientists at all. And that's really how he got away with it. He reported what his colleagues expected to see. ... There are probably tons of articles in the scientific literature based on faked data, and undetected because the results were uncontroversial. There are many more where data were	[00:44]
asciilifeform	filtered or fudged but which remain undetected because the end results were correct. Still more contain honest errors that went undetected because the overall results were valid or the error was peripheral to the main point of the paper.'	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	where "uncontroversial" = fit the political agenda	[00:50]
asciilifeform	aha	[00:50]
asciilifeform	how else.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	like "global warming" flavour of "uncontroversial". like lysenko "uncontroversial"	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	like psychological school of moscow "uncontroversial". asshats.	[00:50]
asciilifeform	(there is also the 'impenetrably obscure' flavour of 'uncontroversy')	[00:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2362 @ 0.00061586 = 1.4547 BTC [+]	[00:52]
mircea_popescu	anwyay, lest we be too harsh on the social pseudoscientists that gotta eat,	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	one must remember the fabled charge of the electorn measurements.	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	people are just assholes, is all.	[00:53]
asciilifeform	that's kinda the one i think of automatically	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[00:53]
asciilifeform	and incidentally just about every serious field has own millikan	[00:53]
asciilifeform	or three	[00:53]
asciilifeform	almost a pons asinorum for basic literacy in $subject - 'name the millikans.'	[00:54]
asciilifeform	(one can debate whether it is proper to speak of a millikan in a subject without experimentals, like mathematics. but overall anybody who fogs brains with his auctoritas while even in the grave, is a millikan)	[00:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00060574 = 9.4193 BTC [-]	[01:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00062705 = 9.9701 BTC [+] {3}	[01:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36250 @ 0.00060574 = 21.9581 BTC [-]	[01:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00063556 = 19.321 BTC [+] {5}	[02:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00062512 = 19.0036 BTC [-] {3}	[02:27]
mircea_popescu	thew problem is of course not mr m.	[02:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79050 @ 0.00063915 = 50.5248 BTC [+] {7}	[02:43]
scoopbot_revived	Microsoft Issues Third Generation Anti-Stuxnet Patch http://qntra.net/2015/08/microsoft-issues-third-generation-anti-stuxnet-patch/	[02:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41150 @ 0.00060987 = 25.0962 BTC [-] {3}	[03:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6265 @ 0.00060574 = 3.795 BTC [-] {2}	[03:25]
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punkman	http://www.beingbecca.com/twenty-four-hours-in-ramallah/	[03:27]
assbot	Twenty Four Hours in Ramallah ... ( http://bit.ly/1WhxsPH )	[03:27]
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punkman	"Irwin Lipkin, 77, agreed he owes the government a Rolex watch, a well-known painting by Red Skelton and $170 billion cash on Monday, and was sentenced to six months in jail Wednesday"	[03:52]
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punkman	(Bernie Madoff employee)	[03:53]
punkman	"Lipkin also agreed to give up a vacation home in Delray Beach, Florida as part of his plea deal, but he was allowed to keep another home in New Jersey, his stamp collection and another Red Skelton painting."	[03:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43197 @ 0.00060548 = 26.1549 BTC [-]	[04:59]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-08-2015#1235195 yawn just how do you enforce a judgement on a degenerate like garza?	[05:03]
assbot	Logged on 11-08-2015 20:56:02; shinohai: Ouch >>> http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-lawsuit-340k-default/	[05:03]
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shinohai	Pray he comes back from Dubai and politely pays you in full cazalla ? Like Krapeles	[05:11]
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punkman	"GAW Miners failed to pay for months of electrical provision as well as infrastructure installation. The utility initially sought $346,647.29 plus interest and court fees."	[05:28]
fluffypony	that's a loooot of money	[05:28]
punkman	I wonder if any miners are doing this systematically	[05:29]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-08-2015#1235279 <<< https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1417/38/1417382902048.png nigga, we wuz pharaohs and shit	[05:30]
assbot	Logged on 11-08-2015 21:47:42; mircea_popescu: how exactly did some us black guy get his "we" to include i presume egyptians, which weren't black while he wasn't in africa, is anyone's guess.	[05:30]
punkman	mine as long as utility company doesn't cut power, make new account, start over	[05:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1IYeljn )	[05:30]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-08-2015#1235245 <<< sorta mirrors the growth in the blockchain size	[05:33]
assbot	Logged on 11-08-2015 21:34:56; trinque: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1SL	[05:33]
punkman	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPEfArQU7tc	[05:42]
assbot	Mexican Oil and Drug Cartels: Cocaine & Crude (Full Length) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYfCXY )	[05:42]
shinohai	http://redd.it/3glfo1	[05:42]
assbot	~44% of Bitcoin mining hash power is currently voting to support 8 MB blocks. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYfFmz )	[05:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36250 @ 0.00060984 = 22.1067 BTC [+] {2}	[05:49]
cazalla	looking at tassie property.. come across all but abandoned laboratory in the middle of nowhere in the middle of tasmania, maybe perfect for asciilifeform types?	[06:00]
BingoBoingo	https://i.imgur.com/S6FsSE2.png	[06:01]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1IYhWxZ )	[06:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00062135 = 15.0367 BTC [+]	[06:05]
shinohai	ROFL BingoBoingo	[06:08]
punkman	went to the bakery, was thinking about buying a donut, then a cockroach looked at me through the donut hole	[06:13]
shinohai	nope.exe	[06:16]
punkman	I've never seen such a thing before	[06:16]
shinohai	Because I'm too lazy to go out this morning, bagels and coffee at home.	[06:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00060163 = 4.061 BTC [-] {2}	[06:19]
shinohai	vermin free.	[06:19]
punkman	girl infected me with some kind of cold, been sweating at random intervals since last night, but no fever.	[06:21]
cazalla	i would think just about every bakery has some cockies punkman	[06:21]
punkman	cazalla: yeah but not where you can see them	[06:21]
shinohai	funded by teh guv http://bitcoinist.net/sabr-io-identifies-illegal-activity-blockchains-willing-work-law-enforcement/	[06:32]
assbot	SABR.io Identifies Illegal Activity on Blockchains, Willing to Work With Law Enforcement - Bitcoinist.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1HFyha3 )	[06:32]
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punkman	http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/06/russian-food-crematoria-to-burn-cheese-bacon-as-russians-starve.html	[06:56]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HFC1rU )	[06:56]
shinohai	Russia being obtuse again.	[07:00]
cazalla	"More than 285,000 people have backed an online petition on change.org, an international website that hosts campaigns, calling on President Vladimir Putin to revoke the decision and hand the food to people in need. " this change.org shit is recurring recently, i come across it even in the local rag	[07:09]
shinohai	I see change.org as simply an outlet for the masses to feel as if they are inspiring social change.	[07:12]
fluffypony	the people have spoken!	[07:13]
fluffypony	it's just that nobody is listening	[07:13]
shinohai	Oh well, be the change and all.	[07:23]
*	assbot gives voice to williamdunne	[07:29]
williamdunne	bank has notarized + apostilled documents certifying GPG key owned by me. bank uses GPG. bank requires documents to be signed in front of a notary and apostilled and won't accept GPG signatures. wao. fiat word sux	[07:30]
williamdunne	The whole apostille thing is fuckheaded as well	[07:30]
*	williamdunne is bitter	[07:31]
punkman	how do they use GPG then?	[07:33]
shinohai	Do they have someone writing out keys on bankslips?	[07:42]
fluffypony	stamps	[07:42]
fluffypony	they're the way of the future	[07:42]
fluffypony	obviously can't be faked	[07:42]
shinohai	lets just all go back to wax seals and signet rings.	[07:43]
williamdunne	punkman: you can send and receive encrypted and signed emails to and from your relationship manager.	[07:43]
williamdunne	shinohai: corporate stamps are still a thing	[07:44]
shinohai	well that's something at least.	[07:44]
shinohai	Oh I know. I had an array of stamps in one of my former jobs.	[07:44]
williamdunne	Recently I had the pleasure of having a legalized translation done	[07:44]
williamdunne	62 pages translated to RO	[07:44]
williamdunne	Then three copies had to be done	[07:45]
williamdunne	In both English and Romanian	[07:45]
williamdunne	One for the translator, one for the notary, and one for me	[07:45]
williamdunne	Then each page had to be stamped and signed	[07:45]
williamdunne	And then the final page had to have seven (yes seven) stamps	[07:45]
williamdunne	Of course, this process had to be completed on each copy..	[07:45]
shinohai	guvment efficiency. Notarize with deedbot or something.	[07:46]
williamdunne	http://extra.listverse.com/amazon/scifiseries/2005_the_hitchhickers_guide_to_the_galaxy_wallpaper_005.jpg	[07:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1IKbAmR )	[07:46]
williamdunne	And then there is the lulz with South Africa too. "We need proof of address for the company"	[07:47]
williamdunne	"It's a new company"	[07:47]
williamdunne	"You need proof of address, like a utility bill or bank statement to open an account in the company name"	[07:47]
williamdunne	UNless I can sort out proof of address somehow, the process is:	[07:48]
williamdunne	Open account with another bank, that will literally send someone to the building to check it is where we say we are	[07:48]
williamdunne	Use a bank statement with the other bank, to open account with the bank who wants to work with us	[07:48]
williamdunne	50 shades of derp	[07:48]
punkman	sounds like you might be doing it wrong	[07:50]
shinohai	When in Rome, you gotta do as the Romans do I guess.	[07:50]
shinohai	Gotta give williamdunne props for navigating it all tho. You make jeffery smith look like an amateur	[07:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00060477 = 14.9378 BTC [+]	[08:34]
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kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235479 < That's Secondmarket/DCG/Barry Silbert's company.	[08:52]
kakobrekla	Guess who else they invested in? Shapeshift.	[08:52]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 02:10:46; assbot: SABR.io wants to unmask Bitcoin transactions and has raised $1 million in funding. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1IXFOlp )	[08:52]
kakobrekla	which is voorhees iirc	[08:52]
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shinohai	ShapeShit	[08:59]
kakobrekla	nice logo.	[08:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27191 @ 0.0006054 = 16.4614 BTC [+] {3}	[09:00]
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*	assbot gives voice to Adlai	[09:13]
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Adlai	also voorhees https://archive.is/D5mlu	[09:14]
assbot	evoorhees comments on [bitcoin-dev] Significant losses by double-spending unconfirmed transactions ... ( http://bit.ly/1IKiPem )	[09:14]
williamdunne	Eh, shapeshift seems pretty well executed from a customer perspective	[09:15]
williamdunne	If you're gonna be into crapcoins, might as well do it on a simple platform like shapeshift	[09:16]
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shinohai	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1150481.0	[09:24]
assbot	I ran Bitcoin Core for >3 years, and I turned it off today ... ( http://bit.ly/1IKjKvs )	[09:24]
shinohai	hilarious. Whining about censorship when theymos censored nothing.	[09:24]
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Adlai	bwah, /buffer 33	[09:56]
Adlai	oops	[09:56]
Adlai	at least it's not a brainwallet	[09:56]
kakobrekla	or is it	[10:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28941 @ 0.00060726 = 17.5747 BTC [+] {7}	[10:04]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235668 << mega-lulzy how microshit drags it onwards for ~years~ on more-or-less undeniable orders from of nsa	[10:13]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 05:50:26; scoopbot_revived: Microsoft Issues Third Generation Anti-Stuxnet Patch http://qntra.net/2015/08/microsoft-issues-third-generation-anti-stuxnet-patch/	[10:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00060163 = 5.2943 BTC [-]	[10:15]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235694 << if i had to move to another usg fiefdom, why not, e.g., midwest usa instead? same as australia, but easier resupply and fewer natural hazards	[10:15]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 08:59:59; cazalla: looking at tassie property.. come across all but abandoned laboratory in the middle of nowhere in the middle of tasmania, maybe perfect for asciilifeform types?	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	lmao murdoch	[10:19]
asciilifeform	not to mention the fact that au is a kind of proving ground for fresh usg idiocies, with simplified bureaucracy, desaparecido without so much as a squeak	[10:20]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony if it's half and half 350k over 4 months means	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	something like half a mw, give or take.	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	not entirely inconceivable. and if you take the other half and pretend materials are free and you get billed for construction work at 50 an hour, that's about six weeks worth of a 12 man team's work.	[10:23]
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mircea_popescu	also not inconceivable.	[10:23]
mircea_popescu	~44% of Bitcoin mining hash power is currently voting to support 8 MB blocks. << jesus fuck look at these idiots, didn't skip a beat	[10:25]
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mircea_popescu	"85% voted to implement a trivial change that was both needed and uncontroversial. they didn't implement it and bitcoin forked. lesson learned! 44% "vote" to implement a change that mp said he will attack. WHATCOULDGOWRONG!111"	[10:25]
asciilifeform	why would they skip a beat	[10:25]
*	thestringpuller is now known as Guest52884	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	right.	[10:26]
asciilifeform	hearn put on 'oppressed by cruel censors' suit, is now a darling of 'the masses' etc	[10:26]
mircea_popescu	eh what masses.	[10:26]
asciilifeform	the fecal masses, what other.	[10:26]
asciilifeform	mobilize the bolus! (tm) (r) (uncle al)	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	punkman sounds like some horrible african ebola. who's she been seeing ?	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	I see change.org as simply an outlet for the masses to feel as if they are inspiring social change. << well mostly it's an obama thing. guy made his own reddit, somewhat more dysfunctional.	[10:28]
mircea_popescu	The whole apostille thing is fuckheaded as well << yeah srsly.	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	punkman: you can send and receive encrypted and signed emails to and from your relationship manager. << who keeps all of them plaintext in his internet-connected excel.	[10:30]
shinohai	kek	[10:30]
punkman	^ aha	[10:30]
punkman	also, there are worse things than having to apostille a document	[10:30]
williamdunne	mircea_popescu: I, mr government official, confirm that mrs notary, did in fact agree that the documents were correct that he brought on the day. She said so and she signed it.	[10:30]
williamdunne	punkman: Legalization, I know	[10:30]
williamdunne	I had to do that as well	[10:30]
mircea_popescu	williamdunne> 50 shades of derp << they have the same nonsense here. /me had cute notary clerk over for biscuits, problem solved.	[10:31]
williamdunne	yeah, mine came over to my house as well to deal with all the paperwork because she gave me some other pricks passport.	[10:32]
mircea_popescu	williamdunne people wanna matter. whenever a vote comes to whether they wanna matter more or less, they vote they wanna matter more. meanwhile they keep mattering less. what's one to do.	[10:34]
mircea_popescu	give them some silly putty to play with.	[10:34]
mircea_popescu	"The business model associated with the Sabr.io service is noble and honorable, as the company wants to eliminate any criminal activity associated with virtual currencies."	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	eh gtfo	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	"noble and honorable" since when is this part of the discourse.	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	hire more native speakers, yo.	[10:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235480 << earlier	[10:35]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 02:12:41; asciilifeform: how long has it been since sc4mz0rz quit doing the most elementary homework to see if other, larger and better-connected sc4mz0rz are pulling the same scam already ?	[10:35]
williamdunne	I'd happily give them some silly putty, but I'd rather not be forced to waste my own time and resources for something that should be easy like opening a bank account. Bitcoin has spoiled me.	[10:35]
asciilifeform	they're stuck competing (for usg trough) with noblis et al	[10:35]
williamdunne	Haven't you heard? Criminal activity is immoral by default	[10:36]
asciilifeform	and yes, their ad copy smells of india	[10:37]
williamdunne	If they outlaw breathing, you should not break the social contract by fighting for life	[10:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00060759 = 7.6253 BTC [+]	[10:37]
*	bagels7 (~bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that is not a drawback.	[10:38]
mircea_popescu	most scamzors live their entire life replicating what actually successful people do.	[10:38]
asciilifeform	and stone age islanders spend entire lives replicating what airplane makers do, aha	[10:39]
asciilifeform	just slightly differently	[10:39]
punkman	"if nobody else is doing it, there's no money in this scam"	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, looky here. when i was younger, we had this constant problem where kids watched who knows what on the (recently available) tv and decided they're gonna be MOBSTERERS!!11 LIEK IRL!!	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	then you had the practical choice of either killing a bunch of 16 yos or complete disorder	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	(which was generally resolved by beating the shit out of them in group - apparently teenaged boys benefit from the shared experience).	[10:40]
asciilifeform	sorta how it was handled in ru at the time, aha	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	well what the fuck you gonna do, decimate the teens ?	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	not that people weren't tempted, especially after a fucking while.	[10:41]
asciilifeform	they were born to feed cannons	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	nothing better illustrates the fundamentally maggoty quality of the human race than being in the position of, approximately speaking, a highschool disciplinarian.	[10:42]
williamdunne	Never understood the usage of gang-beatings to show strength. I can understand it to create fear.. but strength	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	williamdunne what's your theory of homosexual rape in prison ? what drives it ?	[10:43]
williamdunne	Domination	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	so there you go. what fucking "strength".	[10:43]
williamdunne	I'd disagree that a gang-beating is particularly dominating	[10:44]
asciilifeform	incidentally, by all accounts even the vikings had 'lowering into pederasty' precisely like ru prison	[10:44]
asciilifeform	cross-cultural institution	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	ever been beaten ?	[10:44]
asciilifeform	there are folks who were never beaten? not even a bit ?	[10:45]
williamdunne	No, only ever done hte beating	[10:45]
williamdunne	So far	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	and you disagree it works ?!	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	you must've been doing it wrong.	[10:45]
williamdunne	Sure, but I was always on the smaller/equal side	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	...	[10:45]
williamdunne	I've never given a gang beating	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	i don't follow ?	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	well so then on what grounds do you disagree of anything there lol.	[10:46]
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williamdunne	Purely in my head, I'm not certain I'd fear any individual in a group of 8 that beat me	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	obviouisly an amicable bout between friends & equals is a great community building tool.	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	no argument.	[10:46]
punkman	asciilifeform: there are folks who were never beaten? not even a bit ? << lots of em	[10:47]
williamdunne	For example, when one person tried to get a few to jump me, they were forced to keep a fairly large distance between themselves and I	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform "i've never been punched! black and white are the same color! a yellow apple on a yellow cab!"	[10:47]
asciilifeform	l0lwat	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	;;google "i've never been punched! black and white are the same color! a yellow apple on a yellow cab!"	[10:47]
gribble	SNL Transcripts: Daniel Radcliffe: 01/14/12: You Can Do Anything!: ; Color of the Week: Spring Blossom Yellow - Houzz: ; SocketSite™ \| San Francisco's Yellow Cab Cooperative Could Be ...: (1 more message)	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	williamdunne we're not talking of the same thing.	[10:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30308 @ 0.0005966 = 18.0818 BTC [-] {3}	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	and to close on a musical note,	[10:52]
williamdunne	mircea_popescu: What are we talking of?	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	;;google don't take your guns to town	[10:52]
gribble	JOHNNY CASH LYRICS - Don't Take Your Guns To Town - A-Z Lyrics: ; Don't Take Your Guns to Town - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Johnny Cash "Don't Take Your Guns to Town" - YouTube:	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	williamdunne i don't expect this is something that can be verbally communicated, and jesus fuck have i wasted some time if that's actually not so. but perhaps it'll be easier to understand when you take yourself out of there.	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	ever heard of rotherham ?	[10:53]
williamdunne	Only the town	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	so in that town, there once were a bunch of girlies, which for whatever reason grew up with the impression that they're not plainly wrapped fuckmeat for some dudes.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	and actualised this delusion by bitching at who knows what.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	next thing you know, one's doused in gasoline begging for no lights and the other's staring at text messages in her cellphone about her sister and so forth.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	so they DO change their mind, and go take their place in the line of plainly wrapped, bipedal fuckmeat.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	it, apparently, for them, worked just fine.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	ever read about all that ?	[10:56]
williamdunne	Not in any detail, I'll have a look	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	now, sure, maybe you personally are different from a few thousand pubescent girlies.	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	but the one time you'll know this, apparently hasn't come yet.	[10:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46000 @ 0.00060843 = 27.9878 BTC [+] {3}	[10:57]
williamdunne	Did it work fine for them?	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	seems so.	[10:58]
williamdunne	From what I can see they may contend that point	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	howssat ?	[11:00]
williamdunne	Well the only references I'm seeing to it are describing it as a traumatic experience. While traumatic can be a force for good I can't see anything suggesting it did her any particular favours	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	you gotta be kidding me.	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	how about the references where they withdrew complaints / ran off from the da the day of testimony / etc ?	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	how about the references where hundreds of people were involved in raping thousands of preteens for a decade + and all the ridiculous queen's got are five convictions for less than five years a head ?	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	those dudes are going to be out before next year's out, they probably just wanted a break.	[11:03]
williamdunne	That sounds more like it went well for the one pouring the gas, than her	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	uhm.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	don't impose your values on others mkay ?	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	wen't great for her, she's rapemeat, she loves it, ask her!	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	da couldn't get her to say otherwise, after all.	[11:04]
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asciilifeform	the pakis are there on deliberate authority of the local affiliate of usg.	[11:07]
asciilifeform	they are doing their job.	[11:07]
asciilifeform	which is, yes, cultural massage.	[11:08]
asciilifeform	yi yi zhi yi.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	so no, people aren't these magical snowflakes made out of independent thought and closely held principle. that view is chiefly an economical surplus phenomena, people tend to form that view if they live for too long unchallenged. otherwise, people are lazy and small. some smaller than lazy, some lazier than small. but by and large not worth the mention.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dun buy it.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	the pakis are there because between fifty of them they have more balls than the collected population of britons.	[11:09]
asciilifeform	the last part is not in dispute	[11:09]
asciilifeform	but they were shipped in for a reason.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	the part you propose is not necessary.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	yes, for the reason that shipping's cheap now.	[11:09]
asciilifeform	they are also not collecting rapemeat in the financial district of london; or in oxbridge	[11:10]
asciilifeform	or any other Places That Matter (tm)	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	and no, the us didn't make shipping cheap, china did (srsly - look at what they did to that market if you wanna get scared).	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	and yes, china would be the main beneficiary of getting rid of all these northern barbarians.	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	so if you want to have a superpower, use china. the us is neither a superpower not really invovled.	[11:11]
asciilifeform	the way 'yi yi zhi yi' works is that a usg fiefdom controls its lower classes, which might otherwise have some vitality left, by importing orcs	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	actually rotherham is not that badly off. kinda why i used it to derail our amiable friend.	[11:11]
asciilifeform	'not badly off' != globalelite	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	globalelite = patriarchy = cis scum = jew bankers = illuminati = omfg spare me.	[11:12]
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asciilifeform	'the folks whose daughters are exempt from paki' are as good an approximation as any	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	no folks daughters are so exempt except the paki's.	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	btw, northern barbarians = the pakis. china's been pushing populations west since forever, and is continuing to do so. not intentionally, mind you.	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	it just is so fucking big it causes gravity waves. when it weakens, the northern barbarians move east and you have european "peace".	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	when it strengthens back, the barbarians run off west, and yo uhave "end of empires".	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	why did rome succeed "holding the barbarians at bay" for a millenium and then collapsed in two centuries ? look at what was going on in china during.	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	globalisation's older than dirt.	[11:14]
asciilifeform	obligatory: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/04/meet-chechens.html	[11:14]
assbot	ClubOrlov: Meet the Chechens ... ( http://bit.ly/1WiBPdk )	[11:15]
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asciilifeform	'And the only reason they succeeded in doing so is because we were total shit. We are still shit, but not quite so liquid, and in that shit there are some steel particles.'	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	and the steel particles are gonna stick with the shit ? lol, kay.	[11:17]
mircea_popescu	i moreover envision a situation where whatever steel's left, if there is, bands together and the shit gets buried.	[11:17]
mircea_popescu	make a shovel already, i've had it.	[11:17]
asciilifeform	http://bashny.net/uploads/images/00/00/45/2014/02/23/85d0ac9278.jpg << shovel	[11:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TtCAfm )	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[11:20]
asciilifeform	http://www.turborotfl.com/en/news/3497/How_to_make_a_AK-47_from_a_shovel << source. famous	[11:20]
assbot	How to make a AK-47 from a shovel? - Turborotfl.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1TtCOD7 )	[11:20]
asciilifeform	(and no, not the barrel. what did you think.)	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	On the Russian side, it was invariably the mommy who came, and nagged her son: “You shouldn't fight! Fighting is bad!” On the Chechen side it was invariably the father who came. He slapped his son upside the head and told him: “How dare you lose a fight to a stinking Russian—the son of an alcoholic and a prostitute? Tomorrow you thrash him so hard that he pisses himself from fear any time he sees you!”	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	drunk and whore, what "prostitute".	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	for one thing, a whore's not prost [poorly] situated.	[11:22]
asciilifeform	bad translat	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	no, translation by a... putin russian.	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	how do you call that little barrel in which you keep sour cream ? putinica in romanian.	[11:23]
shinohai	http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5533944-christian-family-end-times-band-goes-down-in-hail-of-gunfire-at-walmart/	[11:25]
shinohai	^ how did i miss that?	[11:26]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what kind would you prefer? a white guard officer ?	[11:26]
asciilifeform	(vs 'putin russian')	[11:26]
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mircea_popescu	honestly, i would prefer a chechen.	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	but it is not really my place to prefer.	[11:27]
asciilifeform	hey they speak ru. ask'em	[11:27]
asciilifeform	(sorta how english is spoken in india, but yes, they speak)	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	fuck em, what ask.	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	looky, verbal-ness is drastically overrated this morning.	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	there's no way i can explain to williamdunne what he asks and there's nothing i have to ~say~ to chechens.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	spartan speaks with sword, aha	[11:28]
*	asciilifeform groks this, but also does not know of how to explain in printed word to folks who don't	[11:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26450 @ 0.00061089 = 16.158 BTC [+]	[11:29]
asciilifeform	linked essay imho illustrates that 'chechens or local equivalent' are a necessary part of a balanced diet	[11:30]
asciilifeform	even and especially for folks who like civilization	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	right.	[11:31]
asciilifeform	this is a point that gets lost, somehow.	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	"When I showed up, there were fifteen of them waiting for me, all grown men. I thought that they would simply kill me."	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	lmaop fucking idiot. who figures this, seriously.	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	oh, wait, this is a boy huh. myeah. kay.	[11:31]
asciilifeform	aha	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	problem is, armies don't actually work for this purpose.	[11:32]
mircea_popescu	http://img15.nnm.ru/a/0/7/4/2/06f1ab608c05615d0d66a33ff47_prev.jpg << this, for instance, is a mistake.,	[11:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1WiEHHa )	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	not "shooting civillians". not "cowardly bombing".	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	you wanna win one of these wars, simply ship your guys over. by fucking bus.	[11:33]
asciilifeform	the only mistake i see in that photo is that the pit ain't full	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	the mistake is that the standing guy sought to protect himself.	[11:33]
asciilifeform	militarily speaking	[11:33]
asciilifeform	well it also	[11:33]
asciilifeform	but i assumed this was a victory shot	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	"victory".	[11:34]
asciilifeform	aha.	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	where's that discussion of busses	[11:34]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758674	[11:34]
assbot	Logged on 16-07-2014 23:42:34; mircea_popescu: if teh muricans really just wanted "something that shoots and a bus ticker there", i'd have been really worried about the afghanistani.	[11:34]
asciilifeform	^ here	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	right ty.	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	so, yeah. do that, last fucking time you ever have to "fight" the "terrorists".	[11:35]
asciilifeform	incidentally what happened was precisely this	[11:35]
asciilifeform	trains full of volunteers from all over ru	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	so is it pacified ?	[11:35]
asciilifeform	not all the 'brightest bulbs', mind you. there were some comical incidents of the train stopping and local police confiscating (yes) weapons	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	and they didn't hang tyhe "local police" by the lamp posts ?	[11:36]
asciilifeform	as i said, not brightest bulbs	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[11:36]
asciilifeform	re: 'pacified?' - my understanding is that it is somewhat like a leaking pipe tied over with gauze	[11:36]
asciilifeform	will hold, for how long?	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	you know, teaching a woman that she's supposed to neglect the functioning of her head so she can focus on... the kitchen, i guess, as the puritans can't quite make the cunt point, is criminal.	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	but teaching a boy that he should somehow cleave his intelligence from his activity is just as fucking criminal.	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	you're not smart to live a long time, you're smart to live well. length don't enter into it.	[11:37]
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phf	that orlov quote is questionable, with the same message as his other writing, i.e. "orks are cooler then you" where you is a u.s. office worker. i grew up in intelligentsia family and when i started getting into fights i was sent to sambo. i also saw fights involving chechen boys, including "деревня на деревню" kind, and in none of those were russian boys holding back. what is this	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	phf this is rt-blog.	[11:38]
asciilifeform	phf: orlov is obsessed with the subject of 'noble orcs', where it is gypsy, or eskimo, or whoever hasn't invented water closet yet	[11:39]
phf	mircea_popescu: oh that's the idea about him, i guess that makes sense	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	that's my idea about him at any rate.	[11:40]
*	assbot gives voice to shinohai	[11:40]
asciilifeform	he is also obsessed with characteristic flavour of '90s ru decay, and is convinced that he is observing it in usa	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	dunno that it's all that widely accepted.	[11:40]
asciilifeform	the latter point isn't even so far off	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the problem is that the us never having been a nation, it can't possibly fail like one.	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	leaving aside resurgence.	[11:41]
asciilifeform	can fail like india	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	already is.	[11:41]
asciilifeform	aha.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	but hey, orlov doesn't know about india. he got a hammer an' he's a builder.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	he's gonna build you a wood-and-nails ethernet card!	[11:41]
asciilifeform	with square sails.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	ahaha	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	beahahahahaa why the fuck is that so funny omg	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	air	[11:42]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	"Another time, in school, a group of Chechens stormed into a classroom in the middle of a class, selected the three most attractive girls, and dragged them away with them. Later we found out that the girls were presented as birthday presents to a local Chechen criminal authority."	[11:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00061451 = 14.6561 BTC [+] {4}	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	i think he's mixing the pots, too. this story's from serbia.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	and the "criminal authority" has a name. also ran a hotel, which also had a name. etc.	[11:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36143 @ 0.00059599 = 21.5409 BTC [-] {3}	[11:51]
phf	"my brother's brother heard it from the guy WHO WAS THERE" "man, i wish i could just steal girls from classrooms like a brave chechen, because i sure as hell can't talk to them"	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	irk?	[11:53]
phf	my interpretation of the piece.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	i know, right ?	[11:54]
phf	oh right right	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	i'm not an authority on subcaucasian tribal customs, but my guess would be that such deeds would be a face wound for the poor guy in question incompatible with any sort of continued authority.	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	at the very least he'll be henceforth known as abdulbek the schoolteacher or something.	[11:56]
phf	heheh	[11:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11507 @ 0.00059337 = 6.8279 BTC [-]	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	(the funniest thing about chechens is that they actually use the given name bula.	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	bula is, in romanian, the protagonist of all jokes.)	[11:59]
punkman	"Totos" in greek	[12:00]
phf	why classroom though? how was selection process working with everyone running all over the place? did they had to dump one or two, because upon closer examination they were kind of meh?	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	phf ever seen salo ?	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	"una si bella fanciula... nessun' ne se h'a accorso..."	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	punkman does it mean anything ?	[12:00]
punkman	nope	[12:00]
phf	oh, lined them up, checked teeth and vulvas	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	and then never facefucked any of them.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	(anyway, one girl, the only one that is overtly flirting with the men, is rejected for the obscure reason that she had a bad 1st molar. the procureress protests (in italian) that such a pretty girlie! nobody even noticed!	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	the real dynamic there is that the dudes are so fucking scared of actual womanhood they desperately seek, and for their sins find, an escape path.	[12:04]
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phf	oh i thought it's a control fantasy, a bureaucrat who imagines himself a sultan will necessarily act a bureaucrat in that role	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	i do not believe so.	[12:07]
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mircea_popescu	for one thing, if it were bureaucracy driven, wouldn't you expect the girl be shot ? the woman dismissed ? some sort of "repercussions" ? "consequences" and whatnot ?	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	a record made of the incident at the very list! what sort of bureaucracy is this.	[12:11]
phf	well, the fantasy is a from the perspective of the bureaucrat himself, so he doesn't necessarily sees the bigger picture like a monarch would, he just does the inspection. record would be required though	[12:13]
mircea_popescu	i don't disagree with the point at all, i just don't think that's what happened there.	[12:14]
phf	right, i've not seen it in a while, so i'm definitely misremembering	[12:14]
*	mircea_popescu remembers the early hopeful days of the chechen republic whatever it was called and that mustacioed fellow whose name, inescapably, came to "joker"	[12:17]
phf	dudayev?	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	aha	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	duda something at any rate.	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	yeah. Dzhokhar Musayevich Dudayev check that out	[12:21]
phf	apparently means "doubt" in spanish, so "doubtson"	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	it also means elderberry in romanian.	[12:23]
kakobrekla	duda < baby pacifier here	[12:26]
phf	duda is a form of bagpipes, though not used in russian much, there's still "dudet'", which is to make a bagpipe sound. someone could work that into him being a blowhard somehow	[12:27]
phf	i started reading orlov with his piece about "everyone should get russian passport and move syberia to survive orks and global warming", i thought that maybe he was one of those slightly misguided older russian expats, so i sent him an email in russian with the general idea of, what about existing power structures there, it's not like moving to alaska, there's not going to be a shortage of local generals interested in hunting out of shape expats	[12:30]
phf	for fun. later i did some research and realized that he's some kind of u.s. aparatchik who spent his 90s in russia	[12:30]
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mircea_popescu	lol wut, srsly ?	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck is "Everyone" going to do in siberia, upvote the snow ?	[12:32]
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shinohai	!b 2	[12:33]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2N1MEQP.txt )	[12:33]
phf	well, by then, there's not going to be snow, because moderate climate areas are going to be mad max hell holes, where's your siberian mcmansion is only going to appreciate in value	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	yeah, universal literacy totally was a good idea, i see it now.	[12:34]
mats	http://blog.jacobtorrey.com/towards-a-new-model-of-computational-expressiveness	[12:35]
assbot	Jacob Torrey - Towards a new model of computational expressiveness ... ( http://bit.ly/1L5Rl91 )	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	"A Crypto Trick That Makes Software Nearly Impossible to Reverse"	[12:37]
*	mircea_popescu is not particularly impressed with this recently discovered pop-crypto celeb. srsly, this is it, people stopped giving a shit about "music" so mpaa may die, but there's going to be a naa creating "crypto popstars" instead ?	[12:37]
*	mircea_popescu is further unimpressed with "Since joining the cult of LangSec, I've spent a great deal of time pondering" intros.	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	my chair has spent a great deal of time pondering my ass.	[12:38]
phf	(there's a 90s russian commedy, дмб, about a bunch of hapless army conscripts. at some point they are supposed to provide entertainment for generals, in some total buttfuck nowhere location. one of the activities is pig hunting, they release a pig, and the general goes after it. so of course the pig gets eaten by one of the hungry conscripts, and he has to pretend to be a pig running through fields. i can't help but think about orlov's boomer	[12:39]
phf	s setting up base somewhere in that location)	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	"The divergence between the theoretical Turing machines and the machines designed to emulate has grown significantly; most of the "work" modern computers (including mobile devices, etc.) perform is not computation oriented as it was with a Turing machine. Today networking, graphics/audio and interaction with the physical world (SCADA, wearables, etc.) have become the key features that the industry is working on improvi	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	ng, not the emulation gap between modern CPUs and a theoretical Turing machine."	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	whjat the fuck is this. please explain it to me.	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	not computational oriented ?	[12:39]
m4rCsi	mariorz mats MCM-Mike Michail1 midnightmagic MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius mixdio MobGod_ mod6 moneycat Mrstickball mthreat muruc	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	current computer science favours the speed of light over other speeds "much more important to "us"". it is a serious fucking problem for usg/nsa/alphabetsoup that there still exist people who even vaguely understand what this shit even is, because even one in a million that can make actual decisions based on actual facts when that asshole asciilifeform publishes things about pgp keys or that asshole mircea_popescu thre	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	atens "bitcoin improvement" prgrammes is way too much.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	heck, given the shape they're in, one in a billion may be excessive.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	now my question to you, mats, becomes : what's this to you ? does the apparent novelty catch your eye ? or wut ?	[12:43]
phf	this must be a puton, his twitter says "Described by @wireheadlance as the Anthony Bourdain of InfoSec"	[12:44]
mats	i get the sense that he's on to something but lacks the ability to clearly describe it	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	now this may be.	[12:44]
mats	like he's attempting to improve upon the 'chomsky hierarchy'	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck is anthony bourdain	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	and omfg the x of y enough already god damned pigdinheads	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	mats there's certainly a difference between brainfuck and c++ programs that's driven by difference between actual brainfuck and c++. what exactly it is, tho...	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	"But a boxing audience is always disgusting, and the behaviour of the women, in particular, is such that the army, I believe, does not allow them to attend its contests." lmao orlov and his middle class sentimentalities.	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	THEY WERE NOT EVEN NAKED!	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	see phf, men are deeply afraid of women. especially the men that never killed anyone for the simple aesthetic pleasure of taking a life.	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	s/orlov/orwell/ heh	[12:52]
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phf	that's kind of an obvious point to a nerd boy, i thought the solution always was "stop being such a little shit", not "let's change everyone around me so i finally don't feel inadequate"	[13:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5798 @ 0.00059228 = 3.434 BTC [-]	[13:06]
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phf	(the pig scene, for the curious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmy07aO10qM&t=2m18s)	[13:08]
assbot	ДМБ часть 8/9 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqvzKl )	[13:08]
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jurov	siberia is good for hiding, i guess... not in mcmansion, tho	[13:11]
jurov	novosibirsk is on same latitude than denmark.. just that swings between -40 +40C in the year	[13:13]
jurov	*temperature	[13:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00060993 = 20.2802 BTC [+]	[13:16]
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phf	the heat in novosibirsk like in all russian cities is provided through pipes in a form of a compressed steam and hot water from a ТЭЦ. (a major difference between eastern europe and the states). if ТЭЦ fails, novosibirsk turns into a ice coffin, on account of all the concrete box construction. that actually happened in the past for short periods of time (like a week or two) and it's usually a major humanitarian disaster. we don't even know	[13:31]
phf	precisely how many people died in remote locations like that during the 90s as a result of rapid transition from central planning economy to a "free market" by way of so called "shock doctrine". that info might never surface	[13:31]
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mircea_popescu	^	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	siberia is to be approached sanely, which is to say, dressed in furs you tanned yourself, with trained dogs and women that are provedly able to live like this.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	if you can't field this you don't belong there.	[13:41]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[13:41]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[13:41]
ascii_field	'Jacob Torrey – Cyber-security Philosopher and Boffin' << to the furnace	[13:41]
ascii_field	plz.	[13:41]
jurov	no need for furs... just get some 10mm polystyrene from china	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't grow on trees.	[13:42]
jurov	trade for oil, praps?	[13:42]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1236060 << recent trend in u.s. academitardia,	[13:42]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 15:36:52; mircea_popescu: "A Crypto Trick That Makes Software Nearly Impossible to Reverse"	[13:42]
ascii_field	!s homomorphic	[13:42]
assbot	24 results for 'homomorphic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=homomorphic	[13:42]
ascii_field	^ them	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	how about you go live in china, then, if your plan is to put your life on a foundation of trade with china ?	[13:42]
ascii_field	pseudomathematical claptrap.	[13:42]
jurov	100mm i mean	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field "trick" "recent" blabla.	[13:42]
jurov	gotta trade with somebody	[13:42]
ascii_field	'learn the trick reverse engineers hate!!11'	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	HERE IS THE RECENT TRICK THAT B-A REALLY HATES. HOW AN UNEMPLOYED TWERP MADE IMPOSSIBLE TO SOFTWARE.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	jurov if "gotta trade with somebody" is your premise, go to new york, and be a jew.	[13:43]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1236081 << orwell	[13:44]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 15:46:48; mircea_popescu: "But a boxing audience is always disgusting, and the behaviour of the women, in particular, is such that the army, I believe, does not allow them to attend its contests." lmao orlov and his middle class sentimentalities.	[13:44]
ascii_field	it was orwell.	[13:44]
jurov	but what i wanted to say... our block got just 70mm insulation and whole damn thing heats itself by used electricity and body heat alone, i have cold radiator at -20 outside	[13:44]
ascii_field	ok its in the logz	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	ah yeah. that stuff works.	[13:45]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1236094 << orlov devoted a whole chapter to this, for english readers	[13:45]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 16:31:25; phf: precisely how many people died in remote locations like that during the 90s as a result of rapid transition from central planning economy to a "free market" by way of so called "shock doctrine". that info might never surface	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	romania got covered in them too.	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	of course... once they age they'll be the best cockroach house any cockroach could dream for.	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	but let's not talk of "20 years later". not on the internet, of all places.	[13:46]
jurov	heh yes, will be funny to see how good is the "lifetime warranty" for	[13:46]
jurov	but whole blocks are mostly in half of their 70y projected lifetime	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	better'd be to see who hanged for the fact that prefab production wasn't transitioned to "sandwiched prefab with styofoam". in like, 1992.	[13:47]
jurov	what? whole prefab concrete thing stopped by 1992	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	right.	[13:49]
jurov	and yes, it took another 10y for insulation to start seriously	[13:52]
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phf	jurov: theoretical potential is not the problem. what i'm saying is that there's existing "flora and fauna" that you're going to run into pretty fast. local деревенские "people from the village", police, military divisions that for all practical purposes own the locations principality style and don't need to "trade" in order to get guns, cars and supplies. for some reason that sort of fantasies don't usually go "let's build a dream su	[13:55]
phf	rvivalist spot in Tamaulipas"	[13:55]
jurov	ofc, not for everyone	[13:56]
*	mircea_popescu has actually visited tamaulipas.	[13:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25350 @ 0.00059574 = 15.102 BTC [-] {2}	[13:57]
ascii_field	in all fairness, orlov never advocated 'let's all you plankton move to x and colonize'	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	the only places plankton can colonize are the uk, france, etc.	[13:59]
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jurov	i heard some stories that brasilia is okay	[14:03]
jurov	too	[14:03]
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ascii_field	for plankton, anywhere is ok until... not	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	but fungus only grows on corpses.	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	it is true that spores go everywhere, yes.	[14:08]
mats	Torrey's research is actually interesting, if you'd take the time to read it instead of the Wired write up...	[14:09]
ascii_field	mats: obligatory: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#481151	[14:10]
assbot	Logged on 05-02-2014 03:56:24; asciilifeform: i venture to say that the actual goal of general-purpose (or whatever approximation is possible) homomorphic crypto is quite different.	[14:10]
*	mircea_popescu has dutifully read what mats linked.	[14:10]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#481175	[14:11]
assbot	Logged on 05-02-2014 04:11:28; asciilifeform: they would like to create (and then mandate) computing machinery that cannot be audited for security even in principle.	[14:11]
punkman	jurov: how does that insulation work out in the summer btw?	[14:11]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:12]
jurov	it heats up slower... but also slower to cool down	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	James Burnham's theory has been much discussed, but few people have yet considered its ideological implications–that is, the kind of world-view, the kind of beliefs, and the social structure that would probably prevail in a state which was at once UNCONQUERABLE and in a permanent state of 'cold war' with its neighbors.	[14:15]
mircea_popescu	i don't think orwell is properly credited with the invention of this term ?	[14:15]
mircea_popescu	didn't churchill in fact use it latert than 1945 ?	[14:15]
mircea_popescu	http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bernard-baruch-coins-the-term-cold-war	[14:17]
assbot	Bernard Baruch coins the term “Cold War” - Apr 16, 1947 - HISTORY.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1JU0oIG )	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	list of things to never trust :	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	1. the consensus of the people ; 2. the internet ; 3. the consensus of people on the internet.	[14:17]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[14:17]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[14:17]
ascii_field	iirc orwell - cold war.	[14:17]
ascii_field	and not some schmuck.	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	;;google who coined the term "cold war"	[14:18]
gribble	Bernard Baruch coins the term “Cold War” - Apr 16, 1947 - HISTORY ...: ; Cold War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Cold war (general term) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	"philantropist and financier"	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	as if this is how it works nao.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to put an end to large-	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	scale wars at the cost of prolonging indefinitely a 'peace that is no peace'.	[14:20]
ascii_field	!s you and the atomic bomb	[14:20]
assbot	14 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb	[14:20]
ascii_field	^ many threadz	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	aha	[14:20]
mats	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#481175 << you may be right. regardless, 'HARES' is pretty cool.	[14:27]
assbot	Logged on 05-02-2014 04:11:28; asciilifeform: they would like to create (and then mandate) computing machinery that cannot be audited for security even in principle.	[14:27]
mats	http://jacobtorrey.com/HARES-WP.pdf << white paper for interested folks. only available in pdf, unfortunately	[14:28]
ascii_field	'cool' in precisely the same sense as the bomb collars	[14:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JU16FM )	[14:28]
ascii_field	on ~other people~ strictly.	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	my perception of "secured computing", for what it's worth (perhaps not much) is that it's very much akin to clothing. sure, it "protects the body". yet one generally wishes for the sort of house that allows, and that's populated by the sort of women that don't particularly need that protection.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	that munroe character makes the same point with schoolchildren, schoolmasters and condoms, but i have no taste for it.	[14:32]
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mircea_popescu	so : yes, great, for outside. not the chief point of computing in any sense.	[14:32]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: the 'homomorphic' shit is strictly for 'secure against owner'	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	"I think it is worth recording what some of them cost, just to show what you can do with a few shillings if you invest them in something that grows.I think it is worth recording what some of them cost, just to show what you can do with a few shillings if you invest them in something that grows. [...] Between them, in nine years, those seven rose bushes will have given what would add up to a hundred or a hundred and fif	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	ty months of bloom" << epic. in the same article he complains about someone complaining about roses being bourgeois.	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	guy's fuckin' delicious already	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field looky, there's some value into getting better control of the "owners" of zombie computers.	[14:34]
*	mircea_popescu is kind of sick paying "datacenters" for hosting, i'd much rather pay "criminals".	[14:34]
*	ascii_field not following how this relates	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field you don't imagine the stuff won't be hacked, right ?	[14:35]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: which 'stuff'	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	let the good people of jwz nation run "secure" "homowhatever" computers.	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	so i can run trilema off of them and there's nothing they can do about it.	[14:36]
ascii_field	the (largely lysenkoine and fraudulent, but bear with me) promise of 'homomorphic' is that you can, ostensibly, make a circuit where determining function is similar to breaking rsa	[14:36]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[14:37]
ascii_field	trivial example being paillier's algo	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	in your mind this means "i won't be able to tell if nsa is running X on my computer". in my mind, this means "nsa won't be able to tell if i'm running trilema off obama's computer".	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	technology has no particular social value.	[14:37]
ascii_field	except nsa ~can~	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	or so it ~thinks~.	[14:38]
ascii_field	on account of the whole thing being a 'weak keys' crock of shit	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	ideally.	[14:38]
ascii_field	like (potentially) aes.	[14:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00059837 = 7.4796 BTC [+]	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	these things never work the way one hopes they will.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	but yes, you're broadly correct in suspecting that past this general, "managerial" intuition i lack any actual idea of how it'd work out in practice.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	so it can directly be dismissed if one's inclined to dismiss on such grounds.	[14:40]
ascii_field	anyway this would be more interesting if 'homomorphic crypto' weren't a sc4m	[14:41]
ascii_field	(see also, for similar lulz, 'whitebox cryptography')	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	http://www.safenet-inc.com/software-monetization/white-box-cryptography/ :)	[14:44]
assbot	White Box Cryptography \| Software Monetization Solutions \| SafeNet ... ( http://bit.ly/1JU29p5 )	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	anyway, icesomething or the other is making a pretty penny out of obfuscating and bytecoding php	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	or was, at some point	[14:44]
ascii_field	understand the (claimed!) difference	[14:45]
ascii_field	protocol vs promise (tm)	[14:45]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	"Fourthly, the tea should be strong. For a pot holding a quart, if you are going to fill it nearly to the brim, six heaped teaspoons would be about right."	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	holy shit, the brits actually ate tea stu ?!	[14:50]
mats	pronto> https://github.com/Uberroot/tsteg-poc << 'A steganography PoC demonstrating encoding via transmission delays'	[14:52]
assbot	Uberroot/tsteg-poc · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JU2Yyh )	[14:52]
mats	pronto's a fella on freenode.	[14:53]
mats	(poor copy+paste on my part)	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	one of the best places for stego i can think of.	[14:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00061232 = 17.298 BTC [+] {2}	[15:36]
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mats	in the parlance, 'HARES' is not so much as a 'crypter' than a 'packer'.	[15:57]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:59]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:59]
ascii_field	mats: i read the paper. it's a crock of shit. why does this fella assume that no one can run his process under cycle-accurate emulation ?	[16:00]
ascii_field	plenty of talk of 'protecting the key: erase from caches' etc	[16:00]
mats	ask him. or i can do so on your behalf. he's on freenode	[16:00]
mats	'sirnarwhal'	[16:01]
ascii_field	i'm not mpoe-pr and don't engage with sc4mz0rz recreationally	[16:01]
ascii_field	but i do earn a living demolishing idiocy quite like what was described, yes.	[16:01]
ascii_field	(not publicly, because - why?)	[16:02]
mats	do you have a link to a paper to what was mentioned here http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235493 ? having a hard time with the googles	[16:03]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 02:18:54; asciilifeform: mats: iirc inria had a cycle-and-cache-accurate x86 emulator. might be up your alley.	[16:03]
ascii_field	it wasn't a paper, but a downloadable source thing	[16:03]
ascii_field	http://marss86.org/~marss86/index.php/Home << wasn't inria. go figure	[16:03]
assbot	Marss86 ... ( http://bit.ly/1NaF0jk )	[16:03]
ascii_field	but ^	[16:03]
mats	ok	[16:03]
*	ascii_field has not tried personally	[16:03]
ascii_field	the gold standard for this kind of work is instrumented hardware	[16:04]
ascii_field	but this costs.	[16:04]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1236222 << not a bad way to transmit ephemeral (session) keys	[16:06]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 17:54:13; mircea_popescu: one of the best places for stego i can think of.	[16:06]
mats	ascii_field: he asserts that 'massr86' uses a VMM, which would be detected	[16:13]
ascii_field	not according to the docs	[16:14]
ascii_field	claims proper (100% userland) emu	[16:14]
ascii_field	sorta like the uniquitous qemu	[16:14]
ascii_field	but i have not tried it. no need.	[16:14]
mats	guy's not a scammer as far as i can tell, and you do a disservice to folks (and yourself) by coming to judgment so quickly	[16:15]
ascii_field	seems like he's already told one lie	[16:15]
ascii_field	according to the docs, thing is built on qemu. with none of the 'accelarator' crud that used kernel mods.	[16:17]
ascii_field	ergo, no vmm.	[16:17]
ascii_field	but, again, this is a cheapo 90% solution for poor folks.	[16:17]
mats	wasn't telling a lie, merely made a mistake	[16:19]
ascii_field	(typically malware folks try to detect emulators by looking for well-known imperfections - if operator is an idiot, these will be found - or for external time base, which can set off a trap if machine appears to be uncommonly slow by wall clock time.)	[16:19]
ascii_field	but all of this is well-known.	[16:19]
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ascii_field	the thing about the 'hares' fella is that he is a textbook case of 'but terrorists wouldn't DO that!!111'	[16:22]
ascii_field	as in, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#756107 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#756108	[16:23]
assbot	Logged on 15-07-2014 03:00:27; asciilifeform: one of my first job interviews out of uni. telephone. a fellow from one of the giant gov. contractors was really intrigued that i know x86 asm., have reversed crud for money. i ask him 'what's the job'. he: automated reversing. me: of what. he: ever hear of karatsuba's algo? me: sure. bignum mult. him: well, we wanna find encryption softs on terrorist drives!	[16:23]
assbot	Logged on 15-07-2014 03:00:53; asciilifeform: me: why would terrorist run ms-win. he: they will always, trust me.	[16:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00061257 = 10.0461 BTC [+] {4}	[16:25]
punkman	ascii_field: but they do run windows	[16:26]
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ascii_field	punkman: the goat-fucking ones - sure	[16:26]
punkman	ascii_field, someone has to pick the low hanging fruit, no?	[16:27]
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trinque	punkman: why pick anything but?	[16:29]
mats	i'm rapidly tiring of being a relay, but: he says that intel's 'trusted execution technology' wouldn't work with marss86, and you'd also have to have the key to provision marss	[16:29]
ascii_field	aha so relies on fritz chip.	[16:29]
punkman	works on AMD as well right?	[16:30]
ascii_field	which there is no mention of in the paper.	[16:30]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:30]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[16:30]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:30]
mats	so there's no attack here.	[16:30]
punkman	http://blog.jacobtorrey.com/hares-faq he does acknowledge both instrumented hardware and emulation as problems	[16:31]
assbot	Jacob Torrey - HARES FAQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1NaIaDI )	[16:31]
ascii_field	boils down to the hardness of the fritz chip (and yes, i will keep calling it that, because the motherfuckers don't get to pretend that fritz, palladium, etc. never happened.)	[16:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00061258 = 4.7781 BTC [+]	[16:35]
ascii_field	generally, folks who are obsessed with 'someone may steal my magic algo!!111!!!!' ship the whole shebang on fpga with config in sram, backed with watch battery;	[16:36]
ascii_field	and this is often gnarly and expensive to reverse, because it's on fpga, yes, and might need 500 units to destroy	[16:36]
ascii_field	but the saving grace is that in 100% of such cases, the 'intellectual propertyyyyy!111!' holder is a twerp, and cheaper to give one of his employees a candy bar	[16:36]
ascii_field	see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2015#1043647	[16:38]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2015 00:52:21; mircea_popescu: here's the long and the short of this story : you got two whores, just like in the chemistry and agriculture story. one's whomint, the other's slutmint. you gotta fuck either one or the other. they both have very specific, life altering constraints.	[16:38]
mats	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1236270 << s4.3.3	[16:38]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 19:30:01; ascii_field: which there is no mention of in the paper.	[16:38]
ascii_field	ty mats, found it	[16:39]
ascii_field	aha, then relies 100% on fritz chip.	[16:39]
ascii_field	i never understood how anyone could ever be so gullible as to believe that 'remote attestation chip' could be a thing	[16:40]
punkman	http://en.people.cn/200505/24/images/0523_B38.jpg	[16:41]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PloM6e )	[16:41]
ascii_field	let's say it sits on the bus and refuses to decrypt magic blob unless it thinks hash(ram) == H	[16:41]
mats	he is quite clear about what it can and can't do, no dishonesty as far as i can tell	[16:41]
ascii_field	what's to keep me from sitting it down on one bus where ram hashes to H, then it spits key, and i sit it back down on another.	[16:41]
ascii_field	every other clock cycle if i want.	[16:41]
ascii_field	the best scam is the kind where the scammitude is implicit	[16:44]
ascii_field	and baked into an orchestra of 'no one could have foreseen's	[16:44]
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ascii_field	and 't3rror1sts would never do!!! x'-es	[16:44]
ascii_field	incidentally, the only reason fritz chip was not pushed more aggressively is that it was really intended to prohibit linux	[16:45]
ascii_field	but the latter succumbed to its own weight	[16:46]
ascii_field	and so the bullet was deemed unnecessary	[16:46]
ascii_field	fwiw, i always thought the idea of a copyprotection dongle that tries to take over the whole machine was quite lulzy.	[16:47]
ascii_field	i mean, it's one thing to consider a whole computer in a safe which sets off built-in nuke if anyone so much as scratches the door	[16:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00060176 = 16.6688 BTC [-]	[16:49]
ascii_field	it's quite another to propose that this can be a little pc peripheral turd that i can get 10,000 of and somehow still not crack	[16:50]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00061099 = 11.7921 BTC [+]	[17:00]
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jurov	davout, x.eur liquidity	[17:51]
jurov	not that i complain.. needed some fiat :D	[17:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19899 @ 0.00061257 = 12.1895 BTC [+] {2}	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	wasn't telling a lie, merely made a mistake <<< it's a very interesting point as to how do you establish this ?	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	not even necessary in the case at hand, but as a general rule.	[18:10]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:10]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:10]
ascii_field	see also >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-02-2015#1014374	[18:11]
assbot	Logged on 10-02-2015 03:25:08; mircea_popescu: this is like asking wyatt earp "how do you distinguish between the f brothers and stray dog"	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	i'm rapidly tiring of being a relay << why's the guy not come over anyway ? well... i guess the answer's actually obvious huh. nm.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field it's still an interesting problem, even if not necessarily of practical consequence.	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	sort-of like the interesting problem of "detecting emulator"	[18:12]
ascii_field	sure is.	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	it can readily be shown riguroulsy that this is impossible iun the general case	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless...	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	a good steak is also impossible i nthe general case.	[18:12]
ascii_field	kinda one of the reasons wot is a thing	[18:12]
ascii_field	for answers to questions that don't have rigorous answers, but must be answered.	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[18:13]
ascii_field	!gettrust sirnarwhal	[18:15]
assbot	ascii_field and sirnarwhal are not registered in WoT.	[18:15]
asciilifeform	!gettrust sirnarwhal	[18:15]
assbot	sirnarwhal is not registered in WoT.	[18:15]
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*	TheAdversary has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[18:15]
ascii_field	aaand we answered it.	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	boils down to the hardness of the fritz chip << the reason they don't call it that is because they are trying to avoid the literature documenting the costs of making it hard and the limitation its softness imposes.	[18:15]
ascii_field	see log, also, for why the approach where the whole computer is not inside the fritz is laughable on its face	[18:16]
ascii_field	(regardless of what the fritz is made of)	[18:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87950 @ 0.00061713 = 54.2766 BTC [+] {6}	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field incidentally, it's funny to consider the relations between "remote attestation" and hock or w/e the thing was called	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	urbit ?	[18:18]
ascii_field	no direct relation afaik	[18:18]
ascii_field	mr mold doesn't do hardware	[18:19]
ascii_field	(i asked him)	[18:19]
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mircea_popescu	but it does rely on "outside primitives" right ?	[18:22]
ascii_field	(for n00bz: 'remote attestation' is this crackpot concept where usg has permanent root (yes) on 'your' computer, and uses it to verify that you aren't, e.g., running illegal linux)	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	not sure how to best convey this as the guy's terminology is a sort of pigdin latin numerals.	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	very poor.	[18:22]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: relies on an interpreter he wrote in c	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless : he has this idea that you can nono.	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	i mean the wtf he called them	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	the turbines	[18:22]
ascii_field	jets	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	aha!	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	so : those could as well be the remote part of a fritz chip	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	in a sense they always are : they verify at the minimum that math is homogenous in the universe.	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	(an untested assumption i might add)	[18:23]
ascii_field	a falling brick does that.	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	quite so.	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	or pulsar, as the case may be, same principle.	[18:23]
ascii_field	actually an electron in free space brings in most of known maths	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	enough to prima facie anyway	[18:24]
shinohai	Lovely, lovely Lenovo: http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29497693&sid=ddf3e32512932172454de515091db014#p29497693	[18:27]
assbot	Lenovo G50-80 dialog box - Ars Technica OpenForum ... ( http://bit.ly/1JduFTZ )	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	"Trusted Platform Module From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Fritz-chip) Trusted Platform Module (TPM) is an international standard for a secure cryptoprocessor,"	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	international things are better right ?	[18:29]
ascii_field	;;google NovoSecEngine2	[18:31]
gribble	Lenovo G50-80 dialog box - Ars Technica OpenForum: ; Lenovo is shipping a rootkit in their BIOS...…: ; Kristian Köhntopp - Google+:	[18:31]
*	ascii_field got ~5 results	[18:31]
ascii_field	evidently 'this never happened, move along'	[18:31]
ascii_field	oh and Run Moar Winblowz !!	[18:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33535 @ 0.00060287 = 20.2172 BTC [-] {2}	[18:33]
ascii_field	'Before booting windows 7 or 8, the bios checks if C:Windowssystem32autochk.exe is the Lenovo one or the original Microsoft one. If it is not the lenovo one, it moves it to C:Windowssystem32409zz_secautobin.exe, and then writes it's own autochk.exe. During boot, the Lenovo autochk.exe writes a LenovoUpdate.exe and a LenovoCheck.exe file to the system32 directory, and sets up a services to run one of them when an	[18:39]
ascii_field	internet connection is established. I don't know too much exactly what those do, but one appears to phone home to http://download.lenovo.com/ideapad/wind ... 2_oko.json which is a bit worrying with the combination of a "ForceUpdate" parameter shown and the lack of ssl, making it fairly likely that it's exploitable for remote code execution by anyone who can intercept your traffic(public wifi, etc).'	[18:39]
assbot	Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1JdwSyJ )	[18:40]
ascii_field	^ lulzy, quoted for the record.	[18:40]
ascii_field	btw this is precisely how the well-known 'computrace' works.	[18:40]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:41]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:41]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:41]
ascii_field	moar gold:	[18:41]
ascii_field	'nstead, a file called "wpbbin.exe" was placed in C:windowssystem32 and executed. That turns out to be a method Microsoft introduced with Windows 8 to allow the BIOS to execute code on boot up (!?!) called "Windows Platform Binary Table (WPBT)". I can find almost NOTHING about this anywhere on the internet except a single document on Microsoft's website (link to the Google Cache since it's a .docx file) and in a random	[18:41]
ascii_field	Chinese forum (in Chinese, which I can't read, but it seemed to be about Lenovo). In the end it did the exact same thing that the autochk.exe method (under Windows 7) does (loads LenovoUpdate.exe, installs a service, etc), except you get a cryptic entry in your System Log: "A platform binary was successfully executed."'	[18:41]
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mircea_popescu	herp	[19:01]
Adlai	derp	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	The books that I have counted and priced are the ones I have here, in my flat. I have about an equal number stored in another place, so that I shall double the final figure in order to arrive at the complete amount. I have not counted oddments such as proof copies, defaced volumes, cheap paper-covered editions, pamphlets, or magazines, unless bound up into book form. Nor have I counted the kind of junky books-old schoo	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	l text-books and so forth–that accumulate in the bottoms of cupboards. I have counted only those books which I have acquired voluntarily, or else would have acquired voluntarily, and which I intend to keep. In this category I find that I have 442 books, acquired in the following ways:	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	holy shit.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	i owned > 10k volumes before getting rid of the lot, as a 20yo man.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck "i own 442 books" what is this!	[19:04]
ascii_field	in those days, they cost money	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	they cost money in all days.	[19:04]
ascii_field	today even a schmuck like me has tens of thou	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	quote : "You don't suppose we read that stuff, do you? Why, half the time you're talking about books that cost twelve and sixpence!"	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	twelve and sixpence is about 20 dollars in today's money.	[19:04]
Adlai	dunno, growing up in an apartment full of books is kinda good	[19:04]
Adlai	but i guess you're not growing up a kid	[19:05]
ascii_field	aha my father had pretty much no exposed wall at all	[19:05]
ascii_field	just book	[19:05]
ascii_field	wall-to-wall.	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	same.	[19:05]
Adlai	ed zackary	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	how ELSE are you going to furnish a house ?	[19:05]
Adlai	pianos1	[19:05]
ascii_field	ikr?	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	it's not like it's blue collar shelter.	[19:05]
Adlai	s/1/!/	[19:05]
*	mircea_popescu sadly never thought to take pictures of the thing itself, all he has is various nude girlies in front of bookwalls.	[19:06]
ascii_field	i have more or less solid wall-to-wall now.	[19:06]
Adlai	but a single piano is more expensive than most book collections	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	oddly enough, more interested in the books than in the girls, coupla decades later.	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	Adlai a good one, easily.	[19:06]
Adlai	what's odd about that	[19:06]
Adlai	s/what/nothing/	[19:07]
Adlai	a good piano is worth its weight in divorce lawyers	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the "biblioteca de arta" collection was easily 500 volumes. it mostly dealt with cultural anthropology, aesthetics and such. tiny fraction of a fucking library seriously	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	Adlai at the time it seemed the other way.	[19:08]
Adlai	https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7142	[19:09]
assbot	Quote by Leo Tolstoy : “All happy families are alike; each unhappy fami...” ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDxM9I )	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	lol	[19:09]
ascii_field	obligatory >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-07-2015#1195804	[19:10]
assbot	Logged on 09-07-2015 22:21:02; asciilifeform: those aren't naggum's books!	[19:10]
Adlai	ultimately sentiment trumps	[19:10]
Adlai	yeah but naggum was dead	[19:10]
Adlai	and couldn'tc speak for which books were his, and which weren't	[19:10]
ascii_field	(old thread, re: when i discovered that some derp posted a fake (!) 'naggum's books' list in place of real one)	[19:10]
Adlai	divorce is generally a much more lively affair, due to involvement of the living	[19:10]
ascii_field	the original was posted shortly after his death. i have a copy.	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	"Twenty-five pounds a year sounds quite a lot until you begin to measure it against other kinds of expenditure. It is nearly 9s. 9d. a week, and at present 9s. 9d. is the equivalent of about 83 cigarettes (Players): even before the war it would have bought you less than 200 cigarettes. With prices as they now are, I am spending far more on tobacco than I do on books. I smoke six ounces a week, at half-a-crown an ounce,	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	making nearly £40 a year. Even before the war when the same tobacco cost 8d. an ounce, I was spending over £10 a year on it"	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	there you have it.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	i don't think i smoked enough to pay for a decent book in those tobacco prices.	[19:11]
Adlai	you smoked!?	[19:11]
*	Adlai sells all his S.MPOE	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	i still do, on occasion.	[19:12]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:12]
Adlai	!up ascii_field	[19:12]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:12]
Adlai	fyi smoke is carcinogenic	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	but i doubt i actually went through a pound yet.	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	much lagging behind his half pound weekly.	[19:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00059839 = 16.2762 BTC [-]	[19:13]
Adlai	why smoke	[19:13]
Adlai	flowers are too beautiful to burn	[19:13]
Adlai	and burning leaves is just... heathen	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	...	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	what do you do with leaves, eat them ?	[19:13]
Adlai	http://ottsonic.fanbridge.com/fan_questions/q/1090838	[19:14]
assbot	Ott - Fan Question: Do you currently smoke weed? And how often? ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDynYZ )	[19:14]
*	Adlai quotes the answer, for logs: "Nope. Smoking is foolish in an age when vapourising technology is so evolved and readily available."	[19:14]
mats	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1236307 << context, of course. in this particular case, he addressed the issue of VMM being detected by the loader as indicated in s4.3.4	[19:14]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2015 21:09:46; mircea_popescu: wasn't telling a lie, merely made a mistake <<< it's a very interesting point as to how do you establish this ?	[19:14]
Adlai	"i don't think i smoked enough to pay for a decent book" << as though books are priced by content and not... who knows	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	"I have said enough to show that reading is one of the cheaper recreations: after listening to the radio probably THE cheapest."	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	then he wonders why it went to shit.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	no human activity ever survived and very few have recovered from the mass of people taking an interest.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	and the mass of people take an interest once the poor activity becomes the cheapest in a class.	[19:17]
Adlai	last price i heard quoted for books was "50% of the price you bought'em, if they came from this shop"	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	"Meanwhile, what is the actual amount that the British public spends on books? I cannot discover any figures, though no doubt they exist. But I do know that before the war this country was publishing annually about 15,000 books, which included reprints and school books. If as many as 10,000 copies of each book were sold–and even allowing for the school books, this is probably a high estimate-the average person was on	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	ly buying, directly or indirectly, about three books a year. These three books taken together might cost £1, or probably less."	[19:18]
*	tsoulus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[19:18]
Adlai	why reprint books	[19:18]
Adlai	there is literally zero need for that	[19:18]
Adlai	plenty of excellent books ROT on shelves	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	how else are you going to read the old ones ?	[19:18]
Adlai	pay the bag^H^Hookholders a little premium	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	if i ever want to buy a bible, i do not wish to buy a soggy dog eared piece of composted toilet paper ensmeared with the biological refuse of five generations of idiots of the sort that'd misread a bible.	[19:20]
Adlai	well that's why book buying needs a wot just as much as pretty much anything else	[19:20]
Adlai	you think i throw my books out the window? no, they go to trusted friends	[19:20]
*	rdymac has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[19:21]
Adlai	(go, not "are lent to")	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	women, also ?	[19:21]
Adlai	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b00f45PNTzg	[19:22]
assbot	Never Lend Books - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ml1AoD )	[19:22]
Adlai	women should be neither sold nor lent...	[19:22]
*	mircea_popescu makes note : jews don't keep lent.	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	(and besides, you said yourself : go, not "are lent to")	[19:23]
Adlai	fwiw fasting is an excellent ritual	[19:23]
Adlai	but typically gets grossly mismanaged	[19:24]
*	Adlai is just trying to get more noobs on https://online-go.com/play	[19:26]
assbot	The best place to play go online! ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDzzf1 )	[19:26]
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*	rdymac (uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-myqmuampoequsgbn) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i submit to you that no, not "books cost money". people were just stupider a century ago. quoth http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part37 :	[19:27]
assbot	Fifty Orwell Essays ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDzJTv )	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	"Three of these books deal with subjects of which he is so ignorant that he will have to read at least 50 pages if he is to avoid making some howler which will betray him not merely to the author (who of course knows all about the habits of book reviewers), but even to the general reader. "	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	i beg your pardon ? i read 50 pages in half hour.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	i read a million words a day, and have been reading a million words a day each day for years straight.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck already, 50 pages ?	[19:28]
*	Adlai calls bullshit	[19:28]
Adlai	'skim' /= 'read'	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	orly.	[19:28]
Adlai	yarl.	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	read the piece, tell me anything but skim is contemplated.	[19:29]
*	Adlai reserves the right to have called bullshit on orwell rather than our lord mircea	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	then do the math on what 1-2k lines of daily log mean, in words.	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	lol k	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	the last time i encountered humans that balked for hours at reading "at least 50 pages" i was in jr high and the humans in question where the losers in the class.	[19:31]
Adlai	dunno man i'm still working my way through GEB	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	they couldn't get into the highschools, so prepuberty is the last time we met at the table.	[19:31]
Adlai	skimming huge chunks, sure, but there are also interesting bits	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	Adlai the egptyan god ?	[19:32]
*	[KS] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:32]
Adlai	http://www.physixfan.com/wp-content/files/GEBen.pdf	[19:32]
Adlai	assbot: pls to archive.is	[19:33]
*	Adlai waits	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	the golden braid thing ?	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	my mother got into an episode with that thing once.	[19:34]
Adlai	episode, of what kind?	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	you know, like noob lsd takers ?	[19:36]
ascii_field	mega-b00k	[19:36]
ascii_field	prolly the one i'd like to take to my oubliette	[19:36]
ascii_field	(if they gave books there)	[19:36]
Adlai	aha it has the staniseal of approval	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i think they give books more in line with "tehnologia navigatiei cu vele"	[19:37]
Adlai	ascii_field: iiuc sfine, as long as you "declare the pennies on your eyes"	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	(commie romania had weirdo "to buy x you must also buy y" quota system to prop up the central economy. that particular book was outrageous in a country nobodyu owned as much as a raft, let alone yachts. so it became symbolic)	[19:37]
*	ascii_field bbl	[19:37]
*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:38]
Adlai	:(	[19:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3550 @ 0.00061786 = 2.1934 BTC [+]	[19:38]
Adlai	helloe mpoe	[19:39]
Adlai	lsd is kinda like bitcoin	[19:40]
Adlai	you don't know what'll happen, but you know it'll be interesting	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	"The great majority of reviews give an inadequate or misleading account of the book that is dealt with. Since the war publishers have been less able than before to twist the tails of literary editors and evoke a paean of praise for every book that they produce, but on the other hand the standard of reviewing has gone down owing to lack of space and other inconveniences. Seeing the results, people sometimes suggest that	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	the solution lies in getting book reviewing out of the hands of hacks. Books on specialised subjects ought to be dealt with by experts, and on the other hand a good deal of reviewing, especially of novels, might well be done by amateurs. Nearly every book is capable of arousing passionate feeling, if it is only a passionate dislike, in some or other reader, whose ideas about it would surely be worth more than those of	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	a bored professional. But, unfortunately, as every editor knows, that kind of thing is very difficult to organise. In practice the editor always finds himself reverting to his team of hacks–his "regulars", as he calls them."	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile they organised it alright	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	it still doesn't work.	[19:41]
Adlai	who organized what	[19:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43145 @ 0.00061786 = 26.6576 BTC [+]	[19:42]
Adlai	oh helloe mpoe	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	"the editors" organized "on the other hand a good deal of reviewing, especially of novels, might well be done by amateurs. Nearly every book is capable of arousing passionate feeling, if it is only a passionate dislike, in some or other reader, whose ideas about it would surely be worth more than those of a bored professional"	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	except it turns out that passion only seemed valuable because so rarely encountered from the sort of women these people hung out with (ie, carefully not whores)	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	and so they imagined it's a panacea. which it definitely is not.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	passion's as good as whoever puts it forth, which means that with most people it has the consistency of puss and the aroma of old faces.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	faeces*	[19:44]
Adlai	obviously someboderp with passionate dislike will write a more impassioned review than one with mildly apathatic approval	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	which will be a worse read.	[19:44]
Adlai	upon this principle have been built many subbreddits	[19:44]
Adlai	or as they're called these days, "verses"	[19:44]
Adlai	or is it "subverses"	[19:45]
*	Adlai got a ping and goes to check on the kids	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	"It is Sunday afternoon, preferably before the war. The wife is already asleep in the armchair, and the children have been sent out for a nice long walk. You put your feet up on the sofa, settle your spectacles on your nose, and open the NEWS OF THE WORLD. Roast beef and Yorkshire, or roast pork and apple sauce, followed up by suet pudding and driven home, as it were, by a cup of mahogany-brown tea, have put you in jus	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	t the right mood. Your pipe is drawing sweetly, the sofa cushions are soft underneath you, the fire is well alight, the air is warm and stagnant. In these blissful circumstances, what is it that you want to read about?"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	see ? of course they'd think passion's the answer.	[19:46]
Adlai	well reading a review for lolzvalue is /= to reading a review for wotrating value	[19:46]
*	Adlai spends tons of time on leddit, because "laughter is the best medicine"	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	you ever looked at the voat thing ?	[19:49]
Adlai	as in, loaded it in a browser, yes	[19:49]
Adlai	not much beyond	[19:49]
punkman	life's too short for reading what reddit derps think	[19:50]
*	Adlai is rapidly itching to get his github streak going again	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	was gonna ask if it's different any	[19:52]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:52]
punkman	mircea_popescu: why would it be	[19:53]
Adlai	as my unfamous friend is apt to say, "same shit -- diffrent day"	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	just curious, nothing much past that	[19:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33912 @ 0.00062218 = 21.0994 BTC [+]	[19:53]
Adlai	they've copied the mechanics, and leached the self-identified "edgiest" parts of the community	[19:55]
*	tsoulus (tsoulus@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hzyddbkzpqvgmcpe) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:56]
*	[KS] (KS]@2604:180::7239:d646) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:02]
punkman	http://hedweb.com/animimag/hares.jpg	[20:07]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Nru6nc )	[20:07]
*	assbot gives voice to thestringpuller	[20:09]
mats	fun fact: ru cosmonauts have used the time it takes spit to freeze on insulation as a way to measure temperature	[20:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29550 @ 0.00062272 = 18.4014 BTC [+]	[20:16]
Adlai	well that only measures temp at the point the spit hits	[20:17]
Adlai	you'd have to spit all over everywhere to get useful weather data	[20:17]
thestringpuller	https://medium.com/@octskyward/on-consensus-and-forks-c6a050c792e7 << hearn's analysis on "consensus"	[20:20]
phf	Adlai: does that secp256k1 implementation you have in your github works?	[20:27]
Adlai	phf: works for whats?	[20:30]
Adlai	;;gettrust phf	[20:30]
phf	for doing ecdsa	[20:30]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user Adlai to user phf: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=Adlai&dest=phf \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=phf \| Rated since: Thu Jan 2 22:27:02 2014	[20:30]
Adlai	!gettrust phf	[20:30]
assbot	Trust relationship from user Adlai to user phf: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=Adlai&to=phf \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/phf/	[20:30]
*	Adlai rewrote secp256k1.lisp, but ecdsa invovles more than a mere ec group api	[20:31]
phf	Adlai: i'm trying to decide if i want to get working OP_CHECKSIG first by blindly using someone else's code or ffi'ing to openssl; or write a first approximation of ECDSA myself. will probably offset me by a week	[20:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15576 @ 0.00062804 = 9.7824 BTC [+] {2}	[20:33]
phf	i see	[20:33]
Adlai	it really depends what your objectives are... if you're learning without immediate product deadlines, i strongly recommend rabid NIH celebrations	[20:34]
Adlai	but if you need to produce results: cannibalize, with extreme prejudice	[20:35]
phf	fair, i'm itching to validate blocks, but it'll have to wait	[20:40]
Adlai	fwiw, i'm using https://github.com/adlai/cjhunt/blob/master/src/hunt.lisp#L13 much more than secp256k1.lisp	[20:41]
assbot	cjhunt/hunt.lisp at master · adlai/cjhunt · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NbeAxV )	[20:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4824 @ 0.00062538 = 3.0168 BTC [-]	[20:41]
phf	understood, you have a different objective though	[20:46]
Adlai	so just to lay this to rest: i only rewrote the EC group function. ECDSA requires hashing and proper combination of EC group functions, which has not yet been verified. tl;dr: don't use my code	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	phf so you're not getting eulora mushrooms because you're writing bitcoin in lisp ?	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part40 < also a fan ?	[20:59]
assbot	Fifty Orwell Essays ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nbhfrf )	[20:59]
Adlai	worse yet, he's stuck in my sandtrap	[20:59]
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phf	mircea_popescu: that would be a very ungenerous way of looking at it	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	i am known for my kindly, generous, charitable disposition	[21:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.00062617 = 6.3556 BTC [+] {2}	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	on account of it being so rare.	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	"Capitalism is disappearing, but Socialism is not replacing it. What is now arising is a new kind of planned, centralised society which will be neither capitalist nor, in any accepted sense of the word, democratic. The rulers of this new society will be the people who effectively control the means of production: that is, business executives, technicians, bureaucrats and soldiers, lumped together by Burnham, under the n	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	ame of "managers". These people will eliminate the old capitalist class, crush the working class, and so organise society that all power and economic privilege remain in their own hands. Private property rights will be abolished, but common ownership will not be established. The new "managerial" societies will not consist of a patchwork of small, independent states, but of great super-states grouped round the main indu	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	strial centres in Europe, Asia, and America. These super-states will fight among themselves for possession of the remaining uncaptured portions of the earth, but will probably be unable to conquer one another completely. Internally, each society will be hierarchical, with an aristocracy of talent at the top and a mass of semi-slaves at the bottom."	[21:02]
Adlai	so... oligarchy?	[21:03]
Adlai	of the management class	[21:03]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	so today. with the reddit of out of work waitresses and musicants	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	and the ba of... ba.	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	(the above was a prediction in 1946)	[21:04]
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mats	mmm, my mpex trading balance is nao up ~250% since march	[21:28]
mats	many thanks to mp and jurov	[21:28]
shinohai	O.o	[21:29]
*	Adlai is just glad to be out of hiatus	[21:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37950 @ 0.00062369 = 23.669 BTC [-] {3}	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	wd	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	hookers and blow time ?	[21:34]
mats	nah. i'm just less poor. maybe i'll buy a pair of pants.	[21:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: one hundred percent of orwell, afaik, is on the net	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	aha	[21:38]
kakobrekla	mats run a pc for mpif?	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	yeah but on what.	[21:39]
kakobrekla	or is that Adlais plan now :)	[21:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: and did they really have folks buy hofstadter's 'geb' as part of some spamatron!!?!!	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	yes	[21:39]
kakobrekla	on what he is making butcoin now, mpoe ?	[21:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13399 @ 0.00060189 = 8.0647 BTC [-] {2}	[21:39]
asciilifeform	or wait, 'navigation by sail'	[21:39]
asciilifeform	aha	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform mind that these anecdotes in no way diminish the book	[21:39]
Adlai	kakobrekla: i'm still waiting on the bit4x api	[21:39]
kakobrekla	:(	[21:39]
Adlai	;_;	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	ahaha hey... that'd be pretty epic. have TWO pcs on that thing.	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla where is it!	[21:40]
kakobrekla	wait whut, im saying mats / Adlai should run a pc on mpoe	[21:41]
*	rdymac has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[21:41]
*	Adlai likes it, scalpl was always intended to be an interactive tool anyways	[21:41]
mats	isn't TAT running a pc on mpoe? or is that done with?	[21:41]
Adlai	isn't TAT running?	[21:41]
kakobrekla	tat running? maybe from us.	[21:42]
Adlai	yes that kind of runnings	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	"Lenin, indeed, is one of those politicians who win an undeserved reputation by dying prematurely."	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	bwahahaha	[21:43]
Adlai	jfk	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	peron too	[21:43]
Adlai	yoni netanyahu, although not quite a politician	[21:44]
Adlai	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonatan_Netanyahu "His younger brother, Benjamin Netanyahu, is the current Prime Minister of Israel."	[21:44]
assbot	Yonatan Netanyahu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1JUMXba )	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	jesus, the mother of the series.	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	caesar	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	etc.	[21:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00062966 = 14.1044 BTC [+] {2}	[21:47]
Adlai	in other news, https://twitter.com/byrneseyeview/status/629724444802428928	[21:55]
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mircea_popescu	As late as the autumn of 1945, a Gallup poll taken among the American troops in Germany showed that 51 percent "thought Hitler did much good before 1939". This was after five years of anti-Hitler propaganda.	[21:59]
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asciilifeform	ahahaha.	[22:07]
thestringpuller	lizard hitler 2016	[22:08]
mats	so wait - if TAT took off, who is running PC5?	[22:09]
mats	jurov?	[22:11]
*	King_Rex (~King_Rex@117.sub-70-193-103.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	jurov yes. tat never ran a pc ?	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo ran one but it was liquidated properly.	[22:17]
mats	oh ok. i recall tat being offered pc5 but i see now he did not accept	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	http://dpaste.com/25PZKC1 < if anyone somehow cares, re phuctor and rsa exponents. since my comment is still unapproved a day later.	[22:19]
assbot	dpaste: 25PZKC1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KiqUqQ )	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea why i keep engaging random nobodies online, but hey.	[22:19]
BingoBoingo	Oh, a Double trigger warning on Reddit https://archive.is/fs1J5	[22:20]
assbot	[DOUBLE TRIGGER WARNING]- Swolshamed by my Swolemaiden and other Iron Path Patron in the same day! : swoleacceptance ... ( http://bit.ly/1KiqYXy )	[22:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: l0l! where was this	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	http://qandasys.info/choose-your-own-exponents-in-rsa/#comment-502914	[22:20]
assbot	Choose your own exponents in RSA? \| Question and Answer ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kir3dM )	[22:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's a straight rip off 'stack exchange'	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	one'd expect better managed than this.	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	somehow innovative derps lifting stuff manage to effectually squander the scant opportunities their good fate and their betters' peculiarities afford.	[22:22]
asciilifeform	http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/89787/choose-your-own-exponents-in-rsa	[22:22]
assbot	Choose your own exponents in RSA? - Information Security Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kir7KP )	[22:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu ^	[22:22]
asciilifeform	and i meant, 'straight rip'	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	ahahahaha mkay, never saw that	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	guess joke's on me.	[22:23]
asciilifeform	prolly why nobody answered.	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	mhm	[22:25]
mats	Does a different, larger exponent increase the work effort required for an attacker? Does it increase the work effort required for legitimate uses? << a bigger exponent increases computational time	[22:25]
asciilifeform	(on classic stackexchange, occasionally folks do speak, e.g., http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/89713/offline-rsa-strong-prime-test-similar-to-phuctor/89718#89718 )	[22:25]
assbot	random - Offline RSA strong prime test similar to Phuctor? - Information Security Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1JURgDy )	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	mats not on correctly implemented rsa.	[22:25]
asciilifeform	mno	[22:25]
asciilifeform	it does.	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	why would it ?	[22:25]
asciilifeform	but not in a way that a legit user would give half a fuck about	[22:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: for each bit set in exponent, you end up doing a round in chinese remainder iirc	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	if the implementation allows me to discover stuff about the exponent through timing the thing, it's broken	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	you do all the rounds for your platforms maxint ANYWAY	[22:26]
asciilifeform	proper implementations (e.g. mine) are fixed-time.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	doh	[22:26]
asciilifeform	this is not hard.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	srsly	[22:26]
asciilifeform	but abstractly, more work for machine given a longer public exponent	[22:27]
asciilifeform	(which enemy already knows)	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	machine doesn't care.	[22:27]
asciilifeform	enciphering too.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	and enemy doesn't need to know that much	[22:27]
asciilifeform	and no, nobody cares.	[22:27]
scoopbot_revived	Serenissima Your Serenissma (2015) http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/12/serenissima-your-serenissma-2015/	[22:29]
*	mircea_popescu is rather nonplussed at how social media in its "experts exchange" format has given rise to what amounts to a distributed network of "experts" recruited from among the highschool "metalworkers" as they were called	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	those insufferable kids that can't think so they try to compensate by "Working hard"	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	endless parrotting of uncomprehended, mechanically learned pseudoscience and assorted factoidal half truths for the daily dose of congratulatory popcorn from the poor teacher.	[22:30]
asciilifeform	Expert Sexchange !!11	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	all the intellectual curiosity of "will this be on the exam"	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	and all the personal bravure of "but the teacher said!"	[22:31]
asciilifeform	american education ftw	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	nah, it was deeply soviet	[22:31]
asciilifeform	confucian, really	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	it is the true calling of "universal" education.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	makes bureaucrats. as intended.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	how else.	[22:32]
asciilifeform	mandarins.	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	mandamyfoot.	[22:32]
asciilifeform	no, really. almost complete with the mandatory balls-in-a-jar token of office	[22:33]
*	mircea_popescu has for many years now meditated on this point, but i do not think i loathe or despise any class more than the bureaucrat. i have no problem hanging out with convicted murderes, wanton rapists, the insane, dying men or women, and probably aliens	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	but i can't breathe the air in the same room with these.	[22:33]
asciilifeform	funny how one can smell'em even without air!	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	i can hear them think.	[22:33]
asciilifeform	they could be light-years away, but unmistakeable stink	[22:33]
asciilifeform	how many photons does one need, wonder, to transmit it.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	i think it's just one photon	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	for the lot	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	but mishapen	[22:34]
asciilifeform	!b 10	[22:34]
assbot	Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/21EFD9N.txt )	[22:34]
asciilifeform	;;later tell BingoBoingo have you ever tried to run an apple 'powerbook wallstreet' with an ssd ?	[22:38]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[22:38]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: High on the wanted list	[22:38]
BingoBoingo	'Wallstreet' seems like the pinacle of apple portables.	[22:39]
BingoBoingo	May have regular fiat income coming in soon. If it works out higher priority is those couple mac minis for cheap colo to stand up some industrial nodes.	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	o hey BingoBoingo where've you been!	[22:40]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Studying the ways of the fiat job interview. And sleeping.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	good for you.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	got anything ?	[22:41]
BingoBoingo	Two on Monday in the same building for the same job classification, but different departments.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[22:42]
BingoBoingo	Income would be modest but local apartments offer still more modest prices.	[22:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.00060191 = 15.8904 BTC [-]	[22:43]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: nah, that was 'pismo'	[22:44]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: But does anyone ever sell their pismo?	[22:45]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: me, if i can't get the bugger reading ssd!	[22:46]
asciilifeform	(which srsly cost 2x what that old boat anchor of a machine did!)	[22:46]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: From what I understand Pismo has finicky drive controller. Must use drive from whitelist.	[22:46]
BingoBoingo	What whitelist? Exists in lore of trial and error. ATA 100 right out.	[22:47]
BingoBoingo	ATA 66 or 133, Maybe?	[22:47]
BingoBoingo	From the inclusion of a TPM, the ThinkPad was lost sort of shit here.	[22:48]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: mno. this drive works at all ata speeds (tested) and still won't boot the box	[22:49]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: See https://web.archive.org/web/20040614024747/http://www.macopinion.com/columns/roadwarrior/04/03/30/index.html	[22:50]
assbot	MacOPINION : Charles Moore \| Hotrodding The Pismo Phase Two: Faster Hard Drive ... ( http://bit.ly/1KisDMX )	[22:50]
BingoBoingo	Problem is on motherboard	[22:51]
*	King_Rex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:51]
BingoBoingo	It isn't that the interface works at some speeds and not others. It is that it only works at some speeds and at those speeds only with some drives.	[22:52]
BingoBoingo	And all of those people who complained and tested seemed to do so before the consumer SSD revolution	[22:53]
asciilifeform	again, the fact that it does not mount the drive is obvious experimentally. but the given hypothesis does not follow	[22:55]
asciilifeform	the ssd in question happily runs at 66 and even 33, and negotiates this speed with test box running adult os	[22:55]
BingoBoingo	Discerning the exact problem likely requires a time machine, a baseball bat, and a trip to Cupertino or Mumbai	[22:57]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[22:59]
mats	i chatted up a cutie at the farmers market today	[23:05]
mats	i think she was coming back to talk to me but then decided not to when i didn't notice her at the periphery of my vision	[23:06]
mats	i was looking at a buncha nice summer squash and it barely registered that someone was facing me for five seconds	[23:06]
mats	worth it, that squash is dericious	[23:06]
mats	pricy shit at the market though, i spent ~20 on six linked sausages weighing 2lbs total	[23:07]
mats	i told a friend these events in exactly the same order as irc and she told me i'm gay :(	[23:07]
trinque	haha	[23:07]
BingoBoingo	mats: What kind of summer squash?	[23:09]
mats	the label at the stand said 'golden striped squash' i believe	[23:11]
phf	is it green with yellow stripes?	[23:12]
mats	no its yellow with green stripes	[23:13]
BingoBoingo	Ah mats if you find the small white ones, they are especially delicious. Save a couple for seeds though. It was $2.50 for six seeds this spring for the pattypan squash. Never have I seen seeds that expensive for a vegetable. Worth it though, just saving them this year.	[23:15]
mats	i will be watchful	[23:15]
*	yamaka has quit (Quit: yamaka)	[23:16]
trinque	who wants to make small-talk at the grocery store anyway?	[23:17]
phf	i've rarely seen patissons in stores	[23:17]
trinque	sounds terrible; I'd rather pass judgment on squash too	[23:17]
mats	its not my fault she was too shy to ask me for my number	[23:19]
phf	but they come out really nice when pickled	[23:19]
mats	when i see her again i will ask for hers and then make fun of her at dinner	[23:20]
BingoBoingo	mats: On the plus side those things were really productive when they grew. If you have any outdoor space be it a yard or balcony I highly reccomend them.	[23:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7912 @ 0.00060191 = 4.7623 BTC [-]	[23:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.00060233 = 14.0343 BTC [+] {2}	[23:25]
*	knotwork_ (~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:26]
*	knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:27]
mats	i don't, but i've been meaning to try hydroponics anyway	[23:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00059995 = 37.4369 BTC [-] {3}	[23:33]
BingoBoingo	hydroponics is for people who want enhanced law enforcement attention. Dirt is fine and very productive.	[23:33]
BingoBoingo	And if you really need access to dirt to garden make friends with old people.	[23:45]
BingoBoingo	The new kinder, gentler Gawker Media. As socialist as ever: https://archive.is/DA55l	[23:51]
assbot	An Expensive Sandwich Should Come With a Side ... ( http://bit.ly/1gBM37G )	[23:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00060778 = 27.107 BTC [+] {3}	[23:54]
BingoBoingo	Also note that Gawker/Kinja pages take longer than ever to be processed by archive.is ... Almost as though there is an arms race between archiver and those not wanting to be preserved	[23:55]

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