Forum logs for 06 Jul 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

*	assbot removes voice from ag3nt_zer0	[00:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00053137 = 10.8399 BTC [+] {2}	[00:02]
asciilifeform	mats, mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188920 << gotta mirror this	[00:07]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 02:22:58; mats: half a tb of emails and code there.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	in other news, Run Moar Winblowz!!!11!!	[00:07]
asciilifeform	esp usg subcontractorz plz.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	in yet other nyooz, still wedged at 363954.	[00:08]
mod6	318k+	[00:08]
asciilifeform	note that 363954 is 1) past the nominal ph0rkpoint 2) on a public node	[00:09]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188882 << see above	[00:14]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 01:21:27; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188232 << is this a problem after syncing ?	[00:14]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188886 << the only reason i found it readable	[00:15]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 01:23:43; mats: i haven't noticed any actual bugs, but its apparent the person who wrote the port literally just copied it over without using python idioms like factories	[00:15]
asciilifeform	fuck oopisms	[00:15]
asciilifeform	(oop systems which aren't clos (or possibly smalltalk's, and generally meta-object-able) are like btc securities exchanges which aren't mpex.)	[00:16]
asciilifeform	better to have nothing than a shit-wine hybrid barrel.	[00:16]
mats	you'll not enjoy reading the key server code then	[00:17]
asciilifeform	which ?	[00:17]
mats	mne	[00:17]
asciilifeform	can't be any worse than bitcoind	[00:17]
mats	mine*	[00:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77300 @ 0.00052897 = 40.8894 BTC [-] {3}	[00:17]
asciilifeform	(or could it)	[00:17]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla, anybody else: can we get a mirror of that half-megatonne of shit ?	[00:18]
mats	most complicated machinery is flask and a postgres wrapper	[00:18]
mats	you'll just have to find out	[00:18]
asciilifeform	mats: that's almost exactly a description of 'phuctor', l0l	[00:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39700 @ 0.00052059 = 20.6674 BTC [-] {3}	[00:19]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188450 << all urls are shortened to the same length which is 22 characters, leaving 118 left for the title plus a space to separate it from the url. very few titles are longer than this	[00:25]
assbot	Logged on 05-07-2015 20:06:46; williamdunne: danielpbarron: Twitter's URL shortening is unpredictable. Basically it just checks if it can fit in 140 characters pre-shortening and trims what won't	[00:25]
decimation	lol that Piketty guy is now a paid shill for greece: https://medium.com/@gavinschalliol/thomas-piketty-germany-has-never-repaid-7b5e7add6fff	[00:27]
assbot	Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.” — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1HGC7Ei )	[00:27]
decimation	"if you don't have a debt jubileee it's like you are shoveling jews into the furnace"	[00:27]
williamdunne	danielpbarron: Thanks, I'll fix it to take that into account tomorrow	[00:29]
asciilifeform	;;later tell jurov http://www.gnu.org/software/global << interesting potential replacement for 'lxr'	[00:36]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:36]
assbot	GNU GLOBAL source code tagging system ... ( http://bit.ly/1NHxhXK )	[00:36]
asciilifeform	mats et al: http://yosefk.com/blog/fun-with-ub-in-c-returning-uninitialized-floats.html	[00:43]
assbot	Fun with UB in C: returning uninitialized floats ... ( http://bit.ly/1HGDumw )	[00:43]
asciilifeform	'The average C/C++ programmer's intuition says that uninitialized variables are fine as long as you don't depend on their values. A more experienced programmer probably suspects that uninitialized variables are fine as long as you don't access them. ... Well, it turns out that even if the caller does nothing at all with the return value – ever... ... the program might bomb.'	[00:44]
mats	wat	[00:46]
asciilifeform	aha.	[00:48]
*	cherrry has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[00:49]
asciilifeform	http://www.brendangregg.com/FlameGraphs/cpuflamegraphs.html << interesting graphatron re: profiling	[00:50]
assbot	CPU Flame Graphs ... ( http://bit.ly/1NHyDS8 )	[00:50]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu minor nitpick with article: 'bitcoin core' is what the gavinists call their turd. the traditional client is generally known as 'bitcoind'.	[00:52]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:52]
asciilifeform	i don't give a flying fuck personally, but the terminology might sow some confusion among readership	[00:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3789 @ 0.00052781 = 1.9999 BTC [+]	[00:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50724 @ 0.00052781 = 26.7726 BTC [+]	[01:00]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188874 << 'brightest' is not really the word	[01:01]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 00:50:10; mircea_popescu: the sad result of post-war welfarism being that "the west" is now in this sad position where the brightest minds are in the heads of some unwashed horde somewhere in the mideast.	[01:01]
asciilifeform	nor are the 'desert horde' exempt from the radiation damage of welfarism. ferfuxxsake they're getting free tanks by the column !	[01:02]
asciilifeform	just think of the moral degeneration from ~that~	[01:02]
decimation	not to mention the generations of inbreeding	[01:03]
asciilifeform	eh, that one's survivable	[01:03]
asciilifeform	ask the hassids	[01:03]
decimation	nevertheless, isis is certainly where you would find someone who knows how to survive a shitstorm	[01:03]
asciilifeform	(though there is some debate as to whether it matters ~which~ type of cousin one fucks)	[01:03]
asciilifeform	depends what means 'survive' and 'shitstorm'	[01:03]
mats	iirc second cousins are safe	[01:04]
mats	asciilifeform: after some consultation with my betters, one had this to say: "I'm not sure you can blame that on undefined behavior, except insofar as a SIGFPE is just as valid as nasal demons and such at that point."	[01:06]
mats	"it is not a case of the compiler doing something crazy because of undefined behavior."	[01:06]
asciilifeform	mats: fact of the matter is, the machine behaves in a way which will probably surprise most readers.	[01:07]
asciilifeform	that is worth rubbing in peoples' faces.	[01:07]
mats	yes	[01:07]
asciilifeform	whether the compiler, the os, or satan is to blame - is secondary	[01:07]
asciilifeform	if the effect were not so brute, it would've made a good star in an 'underhanded c contest' entry.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188872 << mistake to symlink 'the west is moribund' and 'la ilaha illa'llah Muhammadun rasul Allah' (tm) (r)	[01:10]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 00:48:54; mircea_popescu: decimation their branchline is in no sense backwards. it is currently the consensus of thinking people (alf said "ru", but really, i agree, everyone with any sense agrees, ru is no determinant) that they are in point of fact broadly correct,	[01:10]
asciilifeform	very different items.	[01:10]
decimation	http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/inbreeding/	[01:10]
assbot	Inbreeding \| West Hunter ... ( http://bit.ly/1NHAN4l )	[01:10]
decimation	asciilifeform: I've made those flamegraphs before, used 'perf' tool	[01:11]
decimation	it comes with kernel	[01:11]
asciilifeform	neat	[01:11]
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decimation	but getting it to cough up full stacktraces is a pain in the ass	[01:11]
decimation	need libunwind, gdb configured correctly, etc	[01:12]
decimation	actually gdb isn't involved	[01:12]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188887 << on top of this, the folks who informed 'amazon' and other usgtronic entities about the xen holes, etc. long before mortals were shown - are legitimate targets.	[01:13]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 01:24:01; mircea_popescu: "you wanted to benefit from responsible disclosure protections, you should have been in the wot" "but at the time i made that decision it seemed a no brainer, why expend the effort" "right. this is why you die."	[01:13]
decimation	ironically usg uses the same formula for 'extending protection'	[01:13]
asciilifeform	i personally refuse to make any distinction between someone who wrote, e.g., 'heartbleed', into existence - and some other fella who ~knew of it and didn't tell me~	[01:14]
asciilifeform	they are exactly the same to me.	[01:14]
decimation	even if done by mistake?	[01:14]
asciilifeform	how am i to believe this?	[01:14]
asciilifeform	every devil, great and small, held up by his hindlegs over the fire will say exactly same thing: 'mistake'	[01:15]
decimation	true.	[01:15]
decimation	then again, who are the innocents using openssl to secure themselves?	[01:15]
asciilifeform	at any rate, the offenders for this last item are known, habitual, and loudly unrepentant.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	what next, we are to care about the 'innocents' 'securing themselves' with winblows?	[01:17]
asciilifeform	the hell they rot in is a strictly voluntary place	[01:17]
decimation	well, then why not congratulate, rather than roast, said devil?	[01:18]
asciilifeform	decimation: notice that 'winblows' now includes much of the unixlike world, in practice.	[01:18]
asciilifeform	what i'd like to see happen is for all the poor schmucks who report, e.g., a 'xen' 0day, to 'cert' et al, to understand that they are ~weaponsmithing for usg for free~	[01:20]
asciilifeform	at the very least, ought to charge	[01:20]
asciilifeform	if 'selling the rope with which to be hanged'	[01:20]
decimation	even microsoft needs a tcp/ip stack - reminds me of your blog post on 'the burden of supporting all the world'	[01:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12448 @ 0.00052781 = 6.5702 BTC [+]	[01:21]
*	WolfGoethe (~textual@cpe-74-66-238-187.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:21]
decimation	asciilifeform: what gets my goat are the constant pleadings for money money and power to do 'cyber'	[01:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00054986 = 8.0829 BTC [+] {2}	[01:24]
asciilifeform	decimation: the process of crafting, concealing, and then digging up '0days' is extremely labour-intensive	[01:26]
asciilifeform	which also means that there is that much more to be embezzled via meta-armies of imaginary labourers	[01:26]
asciilifeform	just like an f-35 engine compressor made from monocrystalline shitanium with unobtainium alloy blades is far more lucrative than an ordinary steel one	[01:27]
asciilifeform	(because higher price tag + vapour delivery is far more lucrative than low + same vapour)	[01:27]
decimation	asciilifeform: this is why the ru military were able to make fighters that match nato's for orders of magnitude less cash	[01:30]
decimation	they only had to build planes, not employ zombies	[01:30]
decimation	or at least fewer, cheaper zombies	[01:31]
decimation	the supreme irony being that the story is that 'nato won' because of capitalist efficency	[01:32]
*	hanbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[01:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6049 @ 0.00053927 = 3.262 BTC [-]	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	HT does 'hax for hire' as USG subcontractor. lulz. << mmmyeah	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	mod6 yeah i know it should be doable.	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	maybne iof anyone feels like posting the link where doxygen / svg experts gather.	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i am deliberately trampling that convention. fuck them.	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	you'll not enjoy reading the key server code then << im kinda curious how this thing will go down :D	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it is not practical to keep tb sized backups on webservers. make a local copy, put on torrents.	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	im sure it's there anyway, but hey.	[02:02]
*	WolfGoethe has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	just think of the moral degeneration from ~that~ << those grapes aren't whine yet.	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	very different items. << sure.	[02:05]
ben_vulpes	jesus shit i blink and y'all crap out 400 lines?	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	don't look at me, it's all them.	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	an' with that, im off. have a great 5th of july erryone.	[02:08]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[07:33]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[07:33]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[07:33]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[07:33]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[07:33]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes how do you mean ?	[07:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88450 @ 0.00053608 = 47.4163 BTC [+] {4}	[07:37]
mats	i just wanna read the code to their tools tbh	[07:59]
kakobrekla	http://www.csoonline.com/article/2943968/data-breach/hacking-team-hacked-attackers-claim-400gb-in-dumped-data.html	[08:11]
assbot	Hacking Team hacked, attackers claim 400GB in dumped data \| CSO Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIWWBo )	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	was in logs, alf wanted it mirrored.	[08:11]
jurov	anyonen has working torrent/magnet link?	[08:13]
jurov	i found one, it's stalling	[08:13]
jurov	or anyone downloaded it already?	[08:13]
*	mircea_popescu confesses to not having bothered.	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	is it gone nao ?	[08:20]
kakobrekla	what is gone?	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	the 400gb thing	[08:20]
*	kakobrekla still has no idea wtf the thing is	[08:21]
*	aabtc (uid27975@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdnuprxsziahfiew) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:24]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla apparently a dump of emails and other things	[08:25]
jurov	most of googling leads to a 10M PDF which i'm loathing to touch	[08:26]
*	assbot gives voice to shinohai	[08:28]
*	williamdunne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[08:37]
kakobrekla	if only id been awake	[08:38]
*	williamdunne (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/williamdunne) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:38]
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jurov	they waited until noone was on watch in #b-a	[08:43]
jurov	https://netzpolitik.org/2015/hacking-team-wird-zu-hacked-team-400-gb-interne-daten-von-ueberwachungssoftware-hersteller-veroeffentlicht/	[08:44]
assbot	Hacking Team wird zu Hacked Team: 400 GB interne Daten von Überwachungssoftware-Hersteller veröffentlicht \| netzpolitik.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0fWpp )	[08:44]
jurov	but my deluge has serious problem digesting there linked torrent	[08:45]
jurov	gotta wait and see	[08:45]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00053741 = 7.685 BTC [+]	[08:46]
*	mius (~mius@unaffiliated/mius) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:47]
jurov	haha and vuze says "too large to be a torrent"	[08:48]
jurov	apparetly my pr0n toolchain of choice is insufficient for this task	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	heh	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	maybe you should give that 10mb pdf a second look :D	[08:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00054262 = 10.7439 BTC [+]	[08:53]
punkman	http://250bpm.com/blog:50	[08:54]
assbot	Finish your stuff - 250bpm ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0gwn5 )	[08:54]
kakobrekla	http://img.hihi.si/Upload/JPGc.png	[08:56]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1LSfqjr )	[08:56]
jurov	kakobrekla: using "Ein Torrent"?	[08:58]
kakobrekla	fellows screenshot, from twitter mega torrent	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron http://dpaste.com/1NYN9VX kthx.	[09:04]
assbot	dpaste: 1NYN9VX ... ( http://bit.ly/1LSg3te )	[09:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44913 @ 0.00053179 = 23.8843 BTC [-] {2}	[09:09]
mircea_popescu	ok well since everyone thinks this so important ima have a machine contribute too, just fgor the seeding	[09:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4269 @ 0.00052534 = 2.2427 BTC [-]	[09:10]
kakobrekla	http://img.hihi.si/Upload/n3t4.png	[09:11]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1J0hWha )	[09:11]
kakobrekla	useless.	[09:11]
punkman	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJNmcVNUAAAiGZ2.png:large	[09:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1J0i3ta )	[09:12]
punkman	Passw0rd!!	[09:12]
mircea_popescu	loller	[09:13]
*	assbot gives voice to williamdunne	[09:13]
williamdunne	I'll give it a seed	[09:13]
williamdunne	Anything interesting particularly yet?	[09:13]
mircea_popescu	The latest Tweets from Christian Pozzi (@christian_pozzi): "We are closing down. Bye Saudi Arabia. You paid us well. Allahuhakbah."	[09:14]
mircea_popescu	nothing much	[09:14]
williamdunne	kakobrekla: I particularly like that it includes their router password	[09:14]
*	bagels7 (~cherry@unaffiliated/bagels7) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:18]
williamdunne	Wonder if the source code is worth shit	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	not unless you get amir taaki to "open source" it.	[09:20]
punkman	http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/05/the-women-who-secretly-keep-isis-running.html	[09:20]
assbot	The Women Who Secretly Keep ISIS Running - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0iHab )	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	sexual slavery eh.	[09:20]
williamdunne	Mmm struggling to find as much as a magnet link for this	[09:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63766 @ 0.00051937 = 33.1181 BTC [-] {4}	[09:24]
*	assbot gives voice to dignork	[09:26]
mircea_popescu	maybe magnet:?dn=Hacked+Team&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fcoppersurfer.tk%3A6969%2Fannounce&xt=urn%3Abtih%3AKFQDX74I4CQ3HOWTSYTBJF4JFHE5E2KV ?	[09:27]
williamdunne	Awesome, thanks	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189127 << kinda the way it goes neh ? project this large, be happy if you can get away with just one machine.	[09:29]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 05:19:08; decimation: yes, you basically have to devote a fulll machine to it	[09:29]
shinohai	@ jurov did u manage to get the torrent yet?	[09:29]
punkman	https://medium.com/@nweaver/extra-unofficial-xkeyscore-guide-b8513600ad24	[09:29]
assbot	Extra Unofficial XKEYSCORE Guide — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1LSif40 )	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189129 << i'm not getting a load off him, what, that's what he got a wife for.	[09:29]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 05:20:41; cazalla: ben_vulpes, so you base an entire nation on the few you've met.. gee get a load of this racist	[09:29]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189139 << ideally tho, dpaste is used for stuff like encrypted sends, in lieu of mail (which i love tbh, who knew irc + gpg obsoletes email!) or else for stuff like deedbotting. or generally, for spurious useless shit.	[09:31]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 05:28:03; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188136 << hm, this is an issue isn't it << srsly	[09:31]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189147 << honestly i'm kinda surprised usians even know what cousins ARE.	[09:32]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 05:35:37; ben_vulpes: (though there is some debate as to whether it matters ~which~ type of cousin one fucks) << generally just the girls	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	"Yanis Varoufakis, Greece's embattled finance minister, has resigned his post,"	[09:33]
*	samO (~samO@unaffiliated/samo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	ah nm cazalla had it :p	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	"It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms."	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	eh fuck this guy. wtf is wrong with people.	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	real reforms = raping "the needy" with a pointed stick. it is morally wrong to be needy and full fucking stop.	[09:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64624 @ 0.00051488 = 33.2736 BTC [-] {2}	[09:37]
jurov	shinohai: yes, it works wrt rtorrent, 1% done	[09:38]
shinohai	Aweome jurov, that is a hefty dump for sure	[09:38]
mircea_popescu	curious if any qntrable articles come out of this.	[09:38]
jurov	will be in ~day	[09:39]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189168 << danielpbarron plox send the man a dozen pogos an' me the shipping bill. jurov send him an address.	[09:41]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 07:26:33; jurov: [20150706 01:30] btw, jurov, did you want some pogos shipped << yes davout offered but then went silent	[09:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57200 @ 0.00051412 = 29.4077 BTC [-] {3}	[09:41]
jurov	if it's shipped from murica maybe it's better to disassemble them, mark as "parts" so that customs aren't tempted to "fix" the declared price	[09:43]
davout	o hey	[09:43]
davout	wasn't it only friday?	[09:43]
jurov	yes i immediately pm'd you never got a reply	[09:43]
*	shinohai is eagerly waiting on his pogo to arrive this week.	[09:44]
davout	i did take note, planning on sending them during the week	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	davout never mind, gotta send more into yurp anyway	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	keep yours, he's getting a fresh dozen	[09:44]
davout	whatever arbeitet	[09:44]
jurov	aha ok, thanks you all, send as many as you wish, i can forward them	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	jurov we see how this goes.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	also you'll need ssds for 'em, best start collecting	[09:45]
*	diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 181850 @ 0.00051204 = 93.1145 BTC [-] {5}	[09:48]
jurov	lol, collect ssds from scrap?	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	i dunno. whatever works. but you'll want a dozen ssds to run a dozen pogos.	[09:51]
davout	with a bit of luck you'll be at the other end of the classical reddit: "o, i dumped my hdd with over 9000 btc on it and now i'm shoveling through the landfill"	[09:51]
jurov	oh. i was not under impression that i'll be running them all. but 4-5 can be defo arranged	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	well whoever runs htem	[09:53]
mircea_popescu	davout wouldn't that be something :D	[09:53]
williamdunne	davout: That actually resulted in a small army of people shovelling through a landfill	[09:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00053558 = 13.3895 BTC [+]	[10:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22617 @ 0.00052932 = 11.9716 BTC [-]	[10:10]
shinohai	http://recode.net/2015/07/05/forget-bitcoin-what-is-the-blockchain-and-why-should-you-care/	[10:10]
assbot	Forget Bitcoin — What Is the Blockchain and Why Should You Care? \| Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1HHgk1p )	[10:10]
shinohai	^Etherum lol	[10:10]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18980 @ 0.00053793 = 10.2099 BTC [+] {2}	[10:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5970 @ 0.00054468 = 3.2517 BTC [+]	[10:16]
williamdunne	intheorium	[10:24]
williamdunne	intheoreum	[10:24]
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*	mike_c (~mike_c@unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:31]
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shinohai	I like your name for it better williamdunne	[10:32]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[10:32]
punkman	http://www.cnbc.com/id/102810291	[10:34]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1H4ZW40 )	[10:34]
punkman	"European Parliament president: Need to urgently discuss humanitarian aid for Greece"	[10:34]
punkman	food drops?	[10:34]
williamdunne	shinohai: Can't take all the credit.. http://intheoreum.org/	[10:34]
assbot	InTheoreum ... ( http://bit.ly/1H502bP )	[10:34]
williamdunne	punkman: New Africa	[10:34]
shinohai	> Bob controls a worldwide public record of all transactions and is provably arbitrary. We call this record, the Bobchain.	[10:35]
shinohai	lolz	[10:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00054893 = 19.2126 BTC [+] {2}	[10:36]
punkman	"The only limit on what you can do with Intheoreum is Bob himself. The Bobchain is nothing more than a man in a room maintaining the state of the intheoreum network with Number 2 Pencil technology."	[10:36]
williamdunne	Intheoreum 1.0 will uses a cutting edge client/server hybrid peer to peer model. Bob is simultaneously your slave and your master. Our testing phase is complete and the Bobchain is live.	[10:39]
williamdunne	Just ask Bob if you can use it today.	[10:39]
williamdunne	"As worldwide interest in the Intheorum network increases success may overwhelm Bob alone. Foreseeing this problem we are planning Inthereum 2.0 technology to incorporate JENNYCHAIN, TIMCHAIN, SALLYCHAIN technology."	[10:40]
williamdunne	"Powered in Theory"	[10:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114950 @ 0.00055498 = 63.795 BTC [+] {6}	[10:44]
*	Namworld (~Namworld@modemcable201.207-176-173.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:50]
mod6	haha	[10:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42250 @ 0.00055649 = 23.5117 BTC [+]	[10:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.0005593 = 18.7366 BTC [+] {3}	[11:01]
*	mius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[11:10]
*	mius (~mius@unaffiliated/mius) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00055956 = 5.5396 BTC [+] {2}	[11:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24151 @ 0.00055704 = 13.4531 BTC [-]	[11:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00055503 = 16.1236 BTC [-] {2}	[11:22]
asciilifeform	364035	[11:24]
asciilifeform	and interestingly, a node '-connect'-ed to that one, is wedged at 363954 for 12+ hours now!	[11:25]
asciilifeform	these are running 100% identical 'stator'	[11:25]
punkman	asciilifeform: does it sit there doing nothing while wedged?	[11:26]
asciilifeform	punkman: no, megatonnes of tx garbage	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://36.media.tumblr.com/853da9c157c3a3129d72bdf4892949fb/tumblr_mttcnr7D0x1sjgtlbo1_1280.jpg	[11:27]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1M7tYZv )	[11:27]
punkman	http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/ModernMechanix/5-1935/type_mask.jpg	[11:27]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1M7tYst )	[11:27]
asciilifeform	seeing many thousands of 'ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction type' also.	[11:29]
asciilifeform	and also, as before, ERROR: CheckBlock() : block timestamp too far in the future ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED	[11:30]
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asciilifeform	this appears to be the proximate cause of the wedge	[11:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35168 @ 0.00055985 = 19.6888 BTC [+] {2}	[11:31]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:33]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[11:33]
pete_dushenski	is anyone actively typing up a eulogy for varoufakis ?	[11:35]
pete_dushenski	^cazalla BingoBoingo punkman ?	[11:35]
pete_dushenski	if not, i'm there	[11:35]
punkman	go ahead	[11:35]
pete_dushenski	aite.	[11:35]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu that box really hasn't sufficient i/o to comfortably house phuctor and node. but i presently haven't any other place to put a node.	[11:36]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	is it a disk issue ?	[11:36]
asciilifeform	almost certainly	[11:36]
asciilifeform	and is anyone else experiencing a wedged 0.5.x node of the precise kind i have ?	[11:38]
asciilifeform	because what i am seeing has every mark of an orchestrated attack against degavinated network, under the smoke cover of the ph0rk aftermath	[11:39]
asciilifeform	atm i don't have access to a usable bitcoin node at all!	[11:40]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[11:41]
asciilifeform	wtf does that thing even care about timestamps	[11:41]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[11:42]
williamdunne	asciilifeform: What marks would these be?	[11:46]
williamdunne	Hmmm....	[11:48]
williamdunne	https://www.coinbase.com/network	[11:48]
assbot	Bitcoin Network Stats - Coinbase	[11:48]
williamdunne	0 Peers Connected	[11:49]
williamdunne	17 available	[11:49]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:102c:b05d:9d14:8a11) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9898 @ 0.00055425 = 5.486 BTC [-]	[11:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.0005373 = 4.0835 BTC [-]	[11:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00054907 = 4.2553 BTC [+] {3}	[12:02]
scoopbot_revived	Eulora skills update http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-skills-update/	[12:02]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189283 << should I take them out of original packaging to save space? and jurov send me address whenever, encrypted with my key if you like	[12:03]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 12:37:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189168 << danielpbarron plox send the man a dozen pogos an' me the shipping bill. jurov send him an address.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron ideally take them apart and send them as parts he says	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	but in any case yes.	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform of course, if phuctor is this starved for io, would it be a good idea to move that thing to ssd ? maybe even raid ?	[12:07]
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danielpbarron	apart as in unscrew the plastic shell of each unit?	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	i always thought ram and cpu are the constraints there	[12:08]
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mircea_popescu	i dunno what he meant o.O	[12:08]
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shinohai	http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/adult-preschool-charges-hipsters-to-take-naps-play-with-glitter-glue-1.3007745	[12:12]
assbot	'Adult preschool' charges hipsters to take naps, play with glitter glue - Trending - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1CWb4iY )	[12:12]
shinohai	I should be so clever as to come up with ideas like this, to relieve redditors of their monies.	[12:15]
mod6	haha	[12:20]
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pete_dushenski	;;later tell BingoBoingo qntsideration : http://dpaste.com/2MQJ46C.txt	[12:33]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[12:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1fhaLKx )	[12:33]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: and nice fix :)	[12:33]
pete_dushenski	;;later tell cazalla and yours ! http://dpaste.com/2FKAE48.txt	[12:35]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[12:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1fhaVBN )	[12:35]
pete_dushenski	and with that, ima sign off for nao. ciao !	[12:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3719 @ 0.00053775 = 1.9999 BTC [-]	[12:43]
*	assbot gives voice to mats	[12:47]
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mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[12:54]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 278.01, Best ask: 278.11, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 278.13, 24 hour volume: 71997.83403132, 24 hour low: 262.2, 24 hour high: 278.69, 24 hour vwap: None	[12:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21718 @ 0.00053775 = 11.6789 BTC [-]	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	yeah, who needs vwap for anything.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	sigh.	[12:55]
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punkman	asciilifeform: wtf does that thing even care about timestamps << for adjusting difficulty	[13:19]
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ben_vulpes	punkman: shouldn't that be a function of the number of blocks since the last difficulty adjustment?	[13:20]
kakobrekla	every 2016 blocks	[13:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00054389 = 11.0682 BTC [+] {2}	[13:22]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44400 @ 0.00054778 = 24.3214 BTC [+] {2}	[13:23]
*	assbot gives voice to Duffer1	[13:24]
jurov	ben_vulpes: yes it is, but also time elapsed	[13:24]
punkman	ben_vulpes: network needs to know how long it's been in human time since last retarget	[13:24]
kakobrekla	speed is a function of time and distance, so you need to know how much time has passed in the 2016 blocks, right?	[13:24]
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*	ben_vulpes bows	[13:34]
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punkman	https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2015-July/000037.html	[13:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KH4AMW )	[13:40]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[13:42]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11433 @ 0.00052855 = 6.0429 BTC [-] {2}	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10632 @ 0.00052055 = 5.5345 BTC [-]	[13:43]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189410 << arsebleed!	[13:45]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 16:36:24; punkman: https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2015-July/000037.html	[13:45]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189407 << probably should've been more specific - why does it matter if timestamp is 'too far in future' ?	[13:46]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 16:20:00; punkman: ben_vulpes: network needs to know how long it's been in human time since last retarget	[13:46]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189377 << don't lose the steel plate that sits under the pcb - it's the only heatsink	[13:47]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 15:03:24; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ideally take them apart and send them as parts he says	[13:47]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189379 << not sure if it's solely disk, or also net, as of this moment. and simply getting 2nd box may be more cost-effective.	[13:47]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 15:03:54; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course, if phuctor is this starved for io, would it be a good idea to move that thing to ssd ? maybe even raid ?	[13:47]
punkman	ascii_field:rejects too far in the future because it wants to keep "network time" within some bounds	[13:48]
ascii_field	seems like logical thing to do would be to accept the block but not move the local epoch time if the block's time is an outlier ?	[13:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00051493 = 9.2172 BTC [-] {2}	[13:49]
punkman	ascii_field: not sure what you mean with "but not move the local epoch time"	[13:50]
*	ascii_field possibly needs caffeine	[13:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138856 @ 0.00054257 = 75.3391 BTC [+] {5}	[13:51]
punkman	relevant code: https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/blob/6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd/src/main.cpp#L1346 and https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/blob/6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd/src/util.cpp#L823	[13:53]
assbot	real-bitcoin/main.cpp at 6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KH6YmO )	[13:53]
assbot	real-bitcoin/util.cpp at 6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KH6YDd )	[13:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00055948 = 10.9099 BTC [+]	[13:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46700 @ 0.00056184 = 26.2379 BTC [+] {5}	[14:10]
ben_vulpes	http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html << I don't know why the conservatives with all their hate for welfare programs aren't pro-free-contraception	[14:10]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1KH9CsN )	[14:10]
ben_vulpes	excellent long term cost reduction strategy imho	[14:10]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:13]
*	joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:13]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[14:21]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[14:21]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[14:21]
ascii_field	in other nyooz, my portable test node is synced.	[14:22]
mats	https://github.com/hackedteam/rcs-backdoor/blob/master/lib/rcs-backdoor/backdoor.rb#L180	[14:26]
assbot	rcs-backdoor/backdoor.rb at master · hackedteam/rcs-backdoor · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHcmpO )	[14:26]
ascii_field	l0l!!	[14:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42346 @ 0.00056446 = 23.9026 BTC [+] {3}	[14:28]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: what's your seeder IP again?	[14:28]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: this one is behind a nat atm	[14:28]
ben_vulpes	aha.	[14:28]
ascii_field	the other one is at nosuchlabs.com	[14:28]
ascii_field	but wasn't synced last i saw	[14:29]
ascii_field	mats: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-07-2015#1189254	[14:29]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 12:15:59; mircea_popescu: not unless you get amir taaki to "open source" it.	[14:29]
ascii_field	looks like ^ happened, aha	[14:29]
ben_vulpes	stuck on a particular block, or still syncing?	[14:29]
ascii_field	block	[14:29]
mats	ain't the net a grand place?	[14:29]
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ascii_field	https://github.com/hackedteam/core-linux/blob/master/melter/src/main.c << debian rootkit ?	[14:33]
assbot	core-linux/main.c at master · hackedteam/core-linux · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHdB8H )	[14:33]
ascii_field	https://github.com/hackedteam/core-linux/tree/master/melter/lib/packages << diddled ssl ?	[14:33]
assbot	core-linux/melter/lib/packages at master · hackedteam/core-linux · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHdEkS )	[14:33]
ascii_field	too many lulz	[14:33]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: do cli flags get auto-munged into bitcoin.conf flags?	[14:34]
ascii_field	https://github.com/hackedteam/GeoTrust << sign yer driverz!	[14:34]
assbot	hackedteam/GeoTrust · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHdKc0 )	[14:34]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: whaddayamean	[14:34]
ben_vulpes	take your myip flag - is that automagically a .conf file option as well?	[14:35]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: iirc	[14:35]
ascii_field	try	[14:35]
ben_vulpes	will	[14:35]
ascii_field	gotta love how the morons had their private keys thrown to the wind	[14:35]
ascii_field	gotta also love the clean, well-commented (italian!) cpp	[14:39]
trinque	good morning all	[14:39]
ascii_field	not some sp4mz0r, just a normal software co.	[14:39]
ascii_field	they just happen to write turdware for usg.	[14:39]
ben_vulpes	stator syncing	[14:41]
*	ben_vulpes is late to the party. again.	[14:41]
trinque	anyone know offhand if armv5tel-softfloat is the appropriate arch for pogo?	[14:41]
ben_vulpes	but perhaps fashionably so?	[14:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61022 @ 0.00056481 = 34.4658 BTC [+] {3}	[14:41]
trinque	if not, we'll find out I suppose shortly	[14:41]
ben_vulpes	does anyone know at a high level how nginx does the "swap binary while running" trick?	[14:42]
ben_vulpes	trinque: is that info missing from asciilifeform's post to the ml?	[14:42]
ben_vulpes	"pogotronic" iirc	[14:42]
*	ben_vulpes to mu	[14:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113316 @ 0.00056775 = 64.3352 BTC [+] {6}	[14:42]
trinque	ben_vulpes: oh I can look, just poking your caches first	[14:42]
trinque	I tried building stator with arm-linux-gnueabi and it segfaults on the pogo	[14:43]
trinque	*cross-compiling, that is	[14:43]
trinque	trying to get some repeatable builds going for arm	[14:43]
ben_vulpes	neato	[14:43]
ben_vulpes	ty	[14:43]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189474 << yes	[14:43]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 17:37:21; trinque: anyone know offhand if armv5tel-softfloat is the appropriate arch for pogo?	[14:43]
trinque	ty	[14:44]
ascii_field	this is in 'portatronic'	[14:44]
ascii_field	the buildroot gives you the complete toolchain you need, independently from that of the box you're on	[14:44]
ascii_field	i recommend using that	[14:44]
trinque	k	[14:45]
ascii_field	gotta be little-endian armv5	[14:45]
ascii_field	or will barf spectacularly	[14:45]
ascii_field	(for the exact instruction set supported, see the marvell datasheet posted ~6 mo. ago.)	[14:46]
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ben_vulpes	http://wiki.nginx.org/CommandLine#Upgrading_To_a_New_Binary_On_The_Fly	[14:47]
assbot	CommandLine - Nginx Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHg4Qh )	[14:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84900 @ 0.0005698 = 48.376 BTC [+] {2}	[14:47]
ascii_field	https://github.com/hackedteam/vector-ipa/tree/master/src << quality wifi mitm-er	[14:50]
assbot	vector-ipa/src at master · hackedteam/vector-ipa · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KHgGpk )	[14:50]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00056706 = 15.9344 BTC [-]	[15:07]
*	diana_coman has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[15:11]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:12]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:13]
ascii_field	anyone who sees a 'martian' version number from nosuchlabs public node, please don't be alarmed. running an experiment today, to determine whether we are being corralled by gavinists using advertised version constant	[15:13]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: if you liked clements tall tales, you might get a kick out of Glynn-Ward's "Glamour of British Columbia"	[15:20]
ascii_field	http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/28440452/ << interesting	[15:20]
assbot	Bitcoin / Mailing Lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1M83QNX )	[15:20]
ascii_field	^ re: block timestamping	[15:20]
ben_vulpes	"The English come out and travel through, knowing all about everything beforehand, as the English always do; and, having set standards, they compare the Fraser to the Thames (former too wide) and the Selkirks to the Cotswolds (former too high). They get out to spend a day or so at Lake Louise or Jasper, then get into the train again and stay there till they reach Vancouver. Then they go back to England and give vague lectures in town	[15:23]
ben_vulpes	halls, about "great open spaces" and "the need for a population." But they know nothing of the real British Columbia.	[15:23]
ascii_field	so i'm nearly certain that the timestamp ~2h epoch time window is the reason for wedged 0.5.x nodes, at this point	[15:23]
ben_vulpes	The Americans come, with plenty of money, and stay at the much-advertised hotels, gulping down the Rockies in predigested doses, thenrace through in a Pullman car to the next big hotel on the coast. And how can they know anything of the province?	[15:23]
kakobrekla	>but I can't fake the hashing power it needs to	[15:23]
kakobrekla	generate one year's worth of hashes. < isnt this one year actually 10 min ?	[15:23]
ben_vulpes	The little Jap who, laughing up and down his sleeve goes cheerfully about his business in a gas-boat up the coast, or picks out the best small-fruit land in the country; the ubiquitous Chinaman, steadily cornering all the loose cash in the land -- of a surety these two know more of British Columbia than most white men!	[15:24]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: ^ if there were no record of the early blocks - then yes	[15:24]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: fascinating! what gears are failing to mesh here?	[15:25]
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kakobrekla	>you won't gain much by lying to your peers since your block won't be	[15:26]
kakobrekla	accepted < like miners care	[15:26]
kakobrekla	bah fuckin line breaks	[15:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00056597 = 11.4326 BTC [-] {2}	[15:27]
ben_vulpes	Story has it that he returned to Hazelton, once, after a trip up the Telegraph Trail, and there he found out that he had missed the farthest cabin of all, over two hundred miles away, and there were two men up there left without supplies for the winter. Either the Government had not made the tale of the cabins clear or C. B. himself had miscalculated. However that may have been, the plain fact remained that these two men had to be	[15:28]
ben_vulpes	supplied -- and it was getting late in the autumn.	[15:28]
ben_vulpes	So C. B. at once set off north again witha pack-train of sixty-eight horses. He had no very great hope of being able to make his destination before the hard weather came on, but he traveled with all the speed possible, to get over the worst places on the trail before ths first snow fell. But as ill-luck would have it, it began to snow one night just as he came to the rock ledges where the going was bad at the best of times. It snowed	[15:29]
ben_vulpes	all next day and the following night without any let-up.	[15:29]
ben_vulpes	Every now and then a horse would miss its footing and go over, sometimes into the rushing river below, to be lost forever. Then it froze, and the going was hopeless. One by one the horses slipped and went down until it was impossible to go onward. C. B. shrugged his shoulders and altered his plans.	[15:29]
ben_vulpes		[15:30]
ben_vulpes	Those supplies had to be delivered to the men patiently waiting for them at the far end of the trail, So he cached the supplies, hoiseted as many carcases of the dead horses as possible into trees where the wolves could not get them, and went all the way back to Hazelton to get dog-teams.	[15:30]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: ???	[15:30]
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ben_vulpes	(almost done, ascii_field)	[15:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7541 @ 0.00055906 = 4.2159 BTC [-] {2}	[15:32]
punkman	ascii_field: see also http://culubas.blogspot.gr/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html	[15:32]
ben_vulpes	Again he started out, this time with a hundred and twenty-eight dogs, and when he came to the place where he had turned back, he was able to feed the dogs on dead horse-meat, and so get through to the cabin where to two men were waiting. But on the return trip, the going was heavy and slow and he found that the worlves had reached the cache of horse-meat and finished it up, so the dogs were short of food and though he killed one after	[15:32]
ben_vulpes	another to feed the rest, they weakend and died on the trail.	[15:32]
assbot	culubas: Timejacking & Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JJPzK3 )	[15:32]
ben_vulpes	So it was that C. B. returned to Hazelton afoot, limping into the hotel one snowy night in midwinter, "broke to the wide", but otherwise unconcerned.	[15:33]
ben_vulpes	"Oh, well, I had the contract, and I had to fill it!" And that was all he said.	[15:33]
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ben_vulpes	^^ the wot at work. ridiculous numbers aside, we tell stories of heroic deeds performed in service of the papers we sign.	[15:34]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell pete_dushenski whaddaya know about this glynn-ward character?	[15:34]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[15:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33103 @ 0.00055826 = 18.4801 BTC [-]	[15:34]
*	assbot gives voice to hdbuck	[15:37]
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hdbuck	hello mircea_popescu, just passing by to say thx for the rating	[15:40]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: are blocks from headers-only miners coming out with timestamps too far in the future?	[15:40]
jurov	ben_vulpes: nginx prolly just exec()s itself	[15:40]
*	JorgePasada (~JorgePasa@c-67-183-19-167.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:40]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: i do not yet know the answer to this	[15:40]
ben_vulpes	jurov: there's a bit more than that. did you read my subsequent link?	[15:41]
ben_vulpes	there's a whole sig* song and dance.	[15:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3397 @ 0.00055339 = 1.8799 BTC [-]	[15:42]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[15:43]
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asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:44]
ascii_field	;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out it was the epoch time	[15:44]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[15:44]
ascii_field	in other news, give my regards to http://dreyfus.umiacs.umd.edu	[15:45]
*	JorgePasada has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[15:45]
assbot	dreyfus.umiacs.umd.edu ... ( http://bit.ly/1M88g7G )	[15:45]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: how'd you run it down?	[15:45]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: moved it by hand	[15:46]
ascii_field	this is a rather worrisome discovery	[15:46]
ben_vulpes	"it" << specifically?	[15:46]
ascii_field	(not the umd box. though betcha it belongs to the umd scamlab)	[15:46]
ascii_field	the epoch thing	[15:46]
ben_vulpes	https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/blob/6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd/src/main.cpp#L1347 << this?	[15:47]
assbot	real-bitcoin/main.cpp at 6af2c99ad7cf02f95aa650262dea0057051f13cd · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1M88uLT )	[15:47]
ascii_field	aha	[15:47]
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ben_vulpes	is this a direct result of headers only mining?	[15:47]
ascii_field	i had the box set to my local time instead of gmt	[15:48]
ben_vulpes	awut	[15:48]
ascii_field	but what this means is that no, the thing won't correct for clock offset	[15:49]
ascii_field	it will just silently cough blood	[15:49]
ben_vulpes	blee. so block validation relies on some absolute coordinated time?	[15:49]
ben_vulpes	jesus shit. we'll have to run our own ntp cluster next.	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	myeap.	[15:49]
ascii_field	if \|your_epoch - block_epoch\| > 2hour then lose	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i could have told you that	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	sadly, was eating.	[15:50]
ben_vulpes	node has been wedged for more than a lunch iirc	[15:50]
ascii_field	i knew the basic fact of. but given as the box displayed correct wall time, did not think of it	[15:50]
ascii_field	had to check by hand	[15:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46050 @ 0.00055682 = 25.6416 BTC [+] {2}	[15:50]
ascii_field	date +%s	[15:50]
ascii_field	amazing that it ever worked	[15:51]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[15:51]
kakobrekla	'your_epoch' is 'network-adjusted time' isnt it	[15:51]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: theoretically, epoch time is 'one for all of us, like victory'	[15:51]
ascii_field	normally gmt.	[15:52]
kakobrekla	>A timestamp is accepted as valid if it is greater than the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks, and less than the network-adjusted time + 2 hours. "Network-adjusted time" is the median of the timestamps returned by all nodes connected to you.	[15:52]
kakobrekla	this suggests otherwise ?	[15:52]
ascii_field	but since i refuse to run ntp on the box, i ended up setting date manually when i was given it	[15:52]
ascii_field	and this, turns out, moved epoch time!	[15:52]
ascii_field	instead of merely moving offset	[15:52]
ben_vulpes	blee	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have the same exact integer for time. then if you wish to localize it, localize it on top of that	[15:53]
ascii_field	also i verified that if version constant is set to 99999, https://getaddr.bitnodes.io agrees to see the node. unless someone gives a fuck, i will set it back to 0.5.4-beta later today	[15:53]
assbot	Global Bitcoin nodes distribution - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1M89Bet )	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck we ended up with this situation where diff machiens have unequal times is beyond me	[15:53]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: it was intended to work as you stated above	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	i know.	[15:54]
ben_vulpes	also i verified that if version constant is set to 99999, https://getaddr.bitnodes.io agrees to see the node. unless someone gives a fuck, i will set it back to 0.5.4-beta later today << eeeheuhe	[15:54]
assbot	Global Bitcoin nodes distribution - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1M89Bet )	[15:54]
ben_vulpes	i actually think setting version to $maxint is a pretty great idea.	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	it really makes very little difference	[15:55]
ben_vulpes	why advertise version instead of just responding to network messages?	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	if you mined and set the block version to maxint it might.	[15:55]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: it doesn't make a practical difference, but it pins a pointless magic variable at its "infinity" value, in the zero, one infinity mapping.	[15:56]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: i brought up this point before. asked mircea_popescu why we insist on making it so easy for gavinists to wall off our net from the rubes. iirc mircea_popescu said 'fuck them all'	[15:56]
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ben_vulpes	imho there are 3 things to be done	[15:56]
ben_vulpes	1 be "honest" advertise some "version"	[15:57]
ben_vulpes	2 be stealthy, advertise whatever "version" is "current" with the shitgnomes	[15:57]
ben_vulpes	3 say "fu this shit is wrong and stupid", set version to $maxint	[15:57]
*	ascii_field favours 3 and stated this some time ago	[15:57]
ben_vulpes	i'm coming around.	[15:58]
ben_vulpes	perhaps should be configgable for stealth in production.	[15:58]
ben_vulpes	trivial patch to apply for anyone who's vested.	[15:58]
kakobrekla	i dont see how maxint is better than '0' except for the pride parade	[15:58]
ascii_field	they could still attempt to filter, but it would have to be an open declaration of war. something the gavinists are rather averse to	[15:58]
ben_vulpes	kakobrekla: there's logic in even the RI codebase that does derpy shit if version numbers are below some critical value.	[15:59]
ascii_field	aha	[15:59]
ben_vulpes	ergo we can only ratchet forward. like evolution.	[15:59]
kakobrekla	wait , and you want this to remain in?	[16:00]
ben_vulpes	it is live on the network	[16:00]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: which 'this' ?	[16:00]
ben_vulpes	has nothing to do with our codebase.	[16:00]
kakobrekla	ascii_field special low version logic	[16:00]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: fact is, if one of our nodes says 'ver 0', everyone it connects to will throw turds in its face	[16:00]
kakobrekla	it doesnt make sense to even use that	[16:00]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: ~other people~ use it	[16:01]
ben_vulpes	hehe turds	[16:01]
kakobrekla	we care for other people now ?	[16:01]
trinque	the thing's a network after all...	[16:01]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: when we move to alpha centauri with own miners - we can stop	[16:01]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: actually this bears testing too.	[16:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27294 @ 0.00054821 = 14.9628 BTC [-] {2}	[16:01]
ben_vulpes	"does a node with version == 0 fail to sync?"	[16:02]
*	ben_vulpes can barf up this patch sometime this week if not beaten to punch	[16:02]
ben_vulpes	configgable patch, that is.	[16:02]
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ben_vulpes	because recompiling bitcoin to set its version number is fucking retarded.	[16:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23256 @ 0.00052653 = 12.245 BTC [-]	[16:02]
*	ben_vulpes also suspects that alf is holding this patch in abeyance	[16:03]
kakobrekla	also try empty value while you are at it	[16:03]
*	jurov votes for ver. num. 1337	[16:03]
trinque	heh!	[16:03]
ben_vulpes	8007135	[16:03]
ben_vulpes	8008135	[16:03]
ascii_field	when we get own planet, with own miners, then - all the solipsism you like	[16:03]
ascii_field	until then, we get wedged nodes and other joys	[16:04]
ben_vulpes	wait, wedge is related to version number?	[16:04]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: speaking here of block ver constant	[16:04]
ascii_field	the other one appears to only affect 'phone books', which i'm not even certain matter	[16:04]
ascii_field	(other than the low ver. corner cases mentioned earlier)	[16:05]
kakobrekla	eh block ver doesnt not even matter until you can produce a block	[16:05]
ascii_field	the epoch thing is a more pressing matter	[16:06]
ascii_field	POGO HAS NO RTC CLOCK	[16:06]
ascii_field	^^^^	[16:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00052595 = 13.5169 BTC [-] {2}	[16:07]
ben_vulpes	myeah i'm troubled.	[16:07]
punkman	pogo can use something like https://github.com/ioerror/tlsdate	[16:08]
*	DanielBTC has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[16:08]
assbot	ioerror/tlsdate · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1M8cf44 )	[16:08]
punkman	or regular ntp	[16:08]
ascii_field	punkman: ssl ? no thx	[16:08]
ascii_field	not to mention that ANY AND ALL hardcoded addrs ~will~ be targets	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field:and why no ntp?	[16:08]
ascii_field	every bit as bad as ntp	[16:08]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: because 100% usg	[16:08]
ascii_field	hitler literally has a button that can set it to whatever.	[16:09]
trinque	could you use the same sort of logic ntpd does against block timestamps?	[16:09]
ascii_field	trinque: ~which~ blocks	[16:09]
ascii_field	any and all turds that claim to be blocks ?	[16:09]
ascii_field	this is a catch-22, realize	[16:09]
trinque	seems you'd have to trust at least one node	[16:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16854 @ 0.00053798 = 9.0671 BTC [+]	[16:10]
trinque	yeah I do	[16:10]
ascii_field	part of block validation is 'is the timestamp <2h from now'	[16:10]
ascii_field	as discussed earlier in this thread	[16:10]
punkman	"[OPEN] Reimplement NTP"	[16:10]
ben_vulpes	hyu	[16:11]
kakobrekla	but time now is also determined by your peers	[16:11]
ascii_field	^ without centralization	[16:11]
ascii_field	this is, incidentally, a much harder problem than the invention of bitcoin	[16:11]
*	assbot gives voice to lobbes	[16:13]
punkman	"Revenue from new accounts : 0 BTC" oh noes	[16:14]
punkman	is this a first?	[16:14]
ascii_field	perhaps the day finally came when everyone who could ever afford it - has bought	[16:14]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:15]
punkman	!up ascii_field	[16:15]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:15]
trinque	so there's "network adjusted time" right?	[16:15]
trinque	that's already just the median time of the peers you know	[16:15]
ascii_field	trinque: realize that this can be manipulated by the enemy	[16:15]
ascii_field	to be whatever the fuck he wants	[16:15]
ascii_field	just by sybiling your node	[16:16]
trinque	sure	[16:16]
trinque	I don't see a way of getting the time that doesn't suffer from that	[16:16]
ascii_field	there ~is~ the way of having a working clock	[16:16]
trinque	aside from having been set by me, using my cesium clock, then running on battery with an RTC thereafter	[16:16]
ascii_field	but we don't have one.	[16:16]
trinque	yeah	[16:16]
*	felipelalli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[16:16]
ascii_field	even a $1 rtc chip, the kind found on old pc mobos, would suffice	[16:17]
ascii_field	but we don't have even this.	[16:17]
*	felipelalli (~felipelal@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:17]
trinque	ascii_field: does not seem there's any sense in continuing on trying to do something distributed without an rtc	[16:17]
ascii_field	trinque: realize that without pogo, you're paying literally 10+ TIMES more per node.	[16:18]
ascii_field	the only solution i can presently think of is a variant of ntp over gossipd.	[16:18]
ascii_field	that, or external physical rtc.	[16:18]
punkman	solder rtc to serial interface?	[16:20]
ascii_field	punkman: who wants to do this? you ?	[16:20]
ascii_field	go, solder.	[16:20]
trinque	surely there's a tiny USB rtc	[16:20]
*	trinque is googling	[16:20]
ascii_field	trinque: yes. costs about what the pogo does	[16:20]
trinque	that's less than 10x	[16:21]
ascii_field	'measely' 2x	[16:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00056838 = 15.1757 BTC [+] {2}	[16:25]
jurov	have we fixed the peer selection? if peers are to be configured manually, they are trustworthy enough to fetch time from, no?	[16:27]
trinque	jurov: that was my thought.	[16:28]
trinque	but then I suppose that suffers from attacks against the routing involved to get to that IP	[16:29]
*	ag3nt_zer0 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[16:29]
trinque	hence gossipd	[16:29]
trinque	incidentally I have found tinc to be rather fucking nice for p2p networking	[16:30]
jurov	okay, but line must be drawn somewhere	[16:30]
jurov	i can't imagine what would have to be done if you expect your own pipe to be utterly hostile	[16:31]
trinque	I dunno any additional complexity is "cheaper" than the extra 25 bucks or w/e for the clock	[16:31]
ascii_field	jurov: realize that, at the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from the seedlist	[16:31]
ascii_field	and yes, i expect the pipe to be maximally hostile	[16:32]
ascii_field	but more than anything, i expect that any centralized points of failure ~will~ be usgized	[16:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51977 @ 0.00056989 = 29.6212 BTC [+] {5}	[16:34]
trinque	this tlsdate thing is hilarious	[16:35]
ascii_field	trinque: aha, just when i thought that nothing could be more retarded than ntp	[16:35]
trinque	there's a github repo out there for everything	[16:36]
*	trinque finds lunch	[16:36]
ascii_field	the time problem has to be solved	[16:37]
ascii_field	WITHOUT doing retarded things	[16:37]
trinque	so you don't like the outboard rtc?	[16:37]
ascii_field	no.	[16:37]
punkman	the parasitic timestamp fetching is not a bad idea though	[16:37]
ascii_field	because - again - cost	[16:37]
ascii_field	punkman: again, no	[16:37]
ascii_field	every bit as bad as ntp!	[16:37]
ascii_field	uses servers!	[16:37]
trinque	$50 does not seem prohibitive, but k	[16:37]
ascii_field	trinque: 50 is almost TRIPLE the cost of a pogo	[16:37]
trinque	was going off "double" and including pogo	[16:38]
trinque	but in either case	[16:38]
ascii_field	a solution that HALVES our fleet is ispo facto retarded!	[16:38]
ascii_field	picture an admiral agreeing to lose 'only half' of his fleet	[16:38]
trinque	sure sure	[16:38]
trinque	but actual cost of a vessel is not yet determined	[16:38]
punkman	what fleet	[16:38]
trinque	maybe without the rtc it's a leaky boat	[16:39]
trinque	but anyhow, could be retarded, sure	[16:39]
*	trinque will ponder the mysteries of pogotime over food matter	[16:39]
ascii_field	even if the thing had a battery-backed otc, there would remain the question of how to set it	[16:40]
*	decimation (~user@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:40]
ascii_field	but it doesn't.	[16:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53197 @ 0.00057204 = 30.4308 BTC [+] {3}	[16:40]
ascii_field	i am reaching the conclusion that: to the extent bitcoin relies on political time AT ALL, it is broken.	[16:41]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field:-connect means "ultimately trusted".	[16:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00055261 = 6.4379 BTC [-]	[16:41]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: there wouldn't be any '-connect' on pogo net	[16:41]
ascii_field	given that it turns your node into a boat anchor	[16:41]
ascii_field	(no one can connect to it)	[16:42]
ascii_field	it'd have to warm up with a few 'addnode's pointing to working boxes, to run at all, yes	[16:42]
ascii_field	but given as the protocol has no authentication, these could vomit forth literally anything	[16:42]
ben_vulpes	i'm beginning to suspect that booting bitcoin nodes cannot be automated in the same way that diddling one's gpg cannot be automated.	[16:44]
*	WolfGoethe has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[16:44]
kakobrekla	trinque: 50 is almost TRIPLE the cost of a pogo < if you dont include ssd you dont have a working node	[16:44]
*	Namworld has quit ()	[16:44]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: ssd is often 'free' - rip out of a retired laptop	[16:44]
ben_vulpes	i must derp my ass down the coast now, however.	[16:44]
jurov	i'm eyeing 64GB SSDs for 36 euro	[16:44]
punkman	ben_vulpes: see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-07-2015#1189265 regarding GPG-diddler automation	[16:45]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 12:25:31; punkman: https://medium.com/@nweaver/extra-unofficial-xkeyscore-guide-b8513600ad24	[16:45]
jurov	should last 2 years, hoepfully then there will be sth much cheaper	[16:45]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:45]
kakobrekla	!up ascii_field	[16:46]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:46]
jurov	i don't have anything around to rip	[16:46]
kakobrekla	ascii_field> kakobrekla: ssd is often 'free' - rip out of a retired laptop < maybe that is true for you and me but not the majority i dont think	[16:46]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: even so, it is a bog-standard consumer product and could be obtained with massive bulk discount if we were to try in earnest	[16:47]
ascii_field	the rest of the system - no	[16:47]
kakobrekla	china usb rtc in bulk 5$?	[16:47]
jurov	for example eeepcs had 8/19G SSDs, not suitable	[16:47]
ascii_field	and presently, i am failing to turn up usb rtc modules for any price on mass market	[16:47]
ascii_field	the ~20 usd figure came out of my arse	[16:47]
ascii_field	based on component cost	[16:47]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: if you know of one, plz link	[16:48]
kakobrekla	i was chicomfying your turd only	[16:48]
jurov	ssd business is so brisk, i doubt very much there will be significant bulk discounts	[16:48]
kakobrekla	i agree	[16:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00057267 = 5.3545 BTC [+]	[16:49]
ascii_field	"errors" : "EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range CInv::GetCommand() : type=3 unknown type bitcoin in ProcessMessage() "	[16:50]
jurov	or $20 only fake 4G chips	[16:50]
ascii_field	^ interesting	[16:50]
jurov	marked as 64	[16:50]
*	shinohai wants to start a pogo bitnode factory, ensure domination of therealbitcoin	[16:51]
ascii_field	... and the node is 2 blocks ahead of 'blockchain.info'	[16:51]
ascii_field	shinohai: good luck obtaining so much as ONE system-on-chip for the prototype	[16:51]
ascii_field	i've been trying for ~6 months and could not.	[16:52]
shinohai	T_T	[16:52]
ascii_field	it appears to be utterly impossible to obtain the key components outside of cn	[16:52]
punkman	ascii_field: I think that error means node is sending you command only present in later nodes	[16:52]
ascii_field	and tw	[16:52]
ascii_field	punkman: well, yes. but ~which~	[16:52]
kakobrekla	bc info seems sorta down	[16:52]
punkman	need mega-debug-sanity patch	[16:53]
ascii_field	works here	[16:53]
*	kakobrekla fuckin hates the days when he has to worry about britneychain	[16:53]
kakobrekla	the chain is down, not site	[16:53]
ascii_field	and shows that the gavinists are busy bees, stuffing the britneychain full of liquid shit	[16:53]
jurov	http://www.dx.com/p/ds1302-real-time-clock-module-blue-151999#.VZrNH5R9zmE and plenty of others there	[16:53]
assbot	DS1302 Real Time Clock Module - Blue - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... ( http://bit.ly/1J164vA )	[16:53]
ascii_field	jurov: NOT USB !!!!	[16:54]
ascii_field	unless you'd like to personally solder these to all 5,000 theoretical pogos	[16:54]
ascii_field	for free	[16:54]
jurov	shrug. so? throw usbserial chip in?	[16:54]
ascii_field	'throw'	[16:55]
ascii_field	want to solder ?	[16:55]
*	trinque waves hands	[16:55]
*	assbot gives voice to decimation	[16:55]
ascii_field	just opening that plastic box is already adding more labour cost than everything we previously considered to be involved in setup put together	[16:55]
jurov	surely there are monkeys around that can solver that	[16:55]
jurov	*solder	[16:55]
decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189592 < this	[16:55]
decimation	actually happens on linux as I understand. there's a thing	[16:55]
decimation	called CLOCK_MONOTONIC	[16:55]
decimation	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3523442/difference-between-clock-realtime-and-clock-monotonic	[16:55]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 18:49:17; mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have the same exact integer for time. then if you wish to localize it, localize it on top of that	[16:55]
assbot	linux - Difference between CLOCK_REALTIME and CLOCK_MONOTONIC? - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1J16jXw )	[16:55]
decimation	sorry for the munged spacing :(	[16:56]
ascii_field	jurov: involving ~any~ monkey at all is astronomically outside of what we expected the cost to be.	[16:56]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:56]
trinque	jurov: I have no slave monkeys that can solder	[16:56]
ascii_field	right now, our pictured supply chain looks like 'any pogo -> any ethernet jack'	[16:57]
ascii_field	if there is 'monkey' in between those, add many times the cost in transportation at the least.	[16:57]
ascii_field	dead end.	[16:57]
jurov	yes. and you so like to paint yourself into corner	[16:57]
ascii_field	jurov probably noticed that just moving one of these from america to europe doubles the cost.	[16:57]
punkman	"[OPEN] Reimplement pogo in chinese"	[16:58]
jurov	http://www.dx.com/p/usb-to-ttl-cp2102-serial-module-red-309988#.VZrOeJR9zmE maybe even no soldering is required, just wire this to rtc module	[16:58]
assbot	USB to TTL CP2102 Serial Module - Red - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... ( http://bit.ly/1J16tOH )	[16:58]
decimation	why not write a lightweight client that gets the time from trusted bitcoind node network?	[16:58]
ascii_field	decimation: because bitcoin doesn't use crypto	[16:58]
ascii_field	there is no such thing as a 'trusted node'	[16:58]
decimation	no, but latest block?	[16:58]
ascii_field	circular logic	[16:58]
ascii_field	whether a block can be 'latest' depends on local time!	[16:59]
decimation	not if multiple nodes are queried	[16:59]
ascii_field	sybils	[16:59]
decimation	myeah	[16:59]
decimation	if you actually want to keep time offline it's not gonna be cheap or easy	[16:59]
jurov	then you painted yourself to a corner and need tiny webserver for user to set time manually	[17:00]
danielpbarron	jurov mircea_popescu sent	[17:00]
jurov	or some such	[17:00]
decimation	what's wrong with usg timeservers?	[17:00]
jurov	danielpbarron: how many?	[17:00]
ascii_field	jurov: not sure if it is so much of a corner. perhaps it is possible to get a 'good enough' picture of political time via some clever means	[17:00]
decimation	no need to run ntp, just ask for time once	[17:00]
ascii_field	thing needs time every time it powers up	[17:01]
danielpbarron	jurov, enough "parts" to make 12	[17:01]
decimation	so?	[17:01]
decimation	it asks for tiem when it powers up	[17:01]
jurov	wow, thanks	[17:01]
decimation	plenty of shit does that	[17:01]
ascii_field	plenty of shit gets owned to pieces	[17:01]
jurov	that's not clever enough for alf	[17:01]
decimation	lol so you are gonna get diddled time?	[17:01]
ascii_field	i fully expect it	[17:01]
danielpbarron	a few of the inner plastic clips got cracked in the de-shelling process but they should still click back together no problem	[17:02]
ascii_field	but more prosaically, ddosed servers	[17:02]
decimation	okay if we are taking it that level, then you really need non-network time	[17:02]
decimation	gps, shortwave, longwave, etc	[17:02]
decimation	maybe it can come with a plug-in sextant?	[17:02]
ascii_field	l0l gps time	[17:03]
ascii_field	jammed for sport as we speak	[17:03]
trinque	some way of signaling current time via invalid transactions?	[17:03]
ascii_field	by fuck knows how many folks	[17:03]
decimation	fine, glosnass, galileo	[17:03]
ascii_field	same	[17:03]
ascii_field	and no signature	[17:03]
ascii_field	i am looking forward to hearing of some answer other than soldering iron or gossipd	[17:04]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu awake ?	[17:04]
decimation	or use WWVB and/or DCF77 and whatever else	[17:04]
punkman	slavegirl must post signed timestamp every 10 minutes?	[17:04]
ascii_field	decimation: quickest way to make sure any kid can set your clock to whatever he wants	[17:04]
ascii_field	is to use un-rsasigned radio !	[17:05]
decimation	lol	[17:05]
decimation	alright, apparently we need a #b-a radio clock transmitter too	[17:05]
jurov	and if we have rsa-signed time, usg will pwn or jam that too	[17:05]
ascii_field	and now we've turned bitcoin into a centralized turd	[17:05]
ascii_field	as jurov points out.	[17:06]
decimation	it was already such a turd, we are just trying to find out what to do about it	[17:06]
ascii_field	aha.	[17:06]
*	flabkebab has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)	[17:06]
ascii_field	probably the only Right Thing (tm) solution is to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall time entirely	[17:07]
decimation	if we are this paranoid about it, the only solution I can think of is to ship a separate box with an ethernet port	[17:07]
trinque	ascii_field: what's wrong with the idea of signaling via specially crafted txn?	[17:07]
ascii_field	trinque: crafted how ?	[17:07]
decimation	that serves time via ntp server and has a push-button input on the front panel	[17:07]
ascii_field	and what is the thing to do until it hears it ?	[17:07]
ascii_field	decimation: gonna ship a gigabit switch also?	[17:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13392 @ 0.00056806 = 7.6075 BTC [-]	[17:08]
decimation	can be 10/100	[17:08]
ascii_field	and now you've throttled the pogo to 10/100	[17:08]
ascii_field	and who will produce magic box? martians?	[17:08]
jurov	well.. nuke the time-related checks altogether?	[17:08]
trinque	ascii_field: the script itself could be both properly signed and invalid right?	[17:08]
trinque	could you encode the time into it?	[17:09]
trinque	and consider certain addresses a valid source of time?	[17:09]
ascii_field	jurov: see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189534	[17:09]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 18:28:33; punkman: ascii_field: see also http://culubas.blogspot.gr/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html	[17:09]
decimation	I find the magic box unneeded when I can get rsa signed time from a variety of places via ntp	[17:09]
ascii_field	trinque: who will encode? what time ?	[17:09]
ascii_field	back to a magic public key a la gavin ?	[17:09]
ascii_field	decimation: the point is that these 'places' are central points of failure, and are even now controlled by the enemy	[17:10]
decimation	not really, nearly every non-orc (and some orc) governments and institutions have ntp	[17:10]
ascii_field	the point i've been trying to make is ~not~ 'let's all go eat our pistols' but that the entire fiction of political time is poisonous when applied to bitcoin	[17:10]
decimation	not sure about the signed part though, need to look into that	[17:10]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field yeh	[17:11]
ascii_field	decimation: there is no ability to authenticate what you get from ntp connection	[17:11]
trinque	ascii_field: yeah, I think that is the only possible way to avoid having a magic central something	[17:11]
punkman	you can't have bitcoin without human time. meat rots.	[17:11]
trinque	having bitcoin disregard time, which I'm sure has all kinds of implications around when you may consider a given block valid	[17:11]
decimation	you can sign time with rsa in ntp http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-config-adv.htm	[17:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RgToKN )	[17:12]
ascii_field	decimation: who gets to sign ?	[17:12]
trinque	bitcoin jesus of course	[17:12]
ascii_field	hitler? me? mircea_popescu?	[17:12]
decimation	sure	[17:12]
ascii_field	any and all choices are terrible	[17:12]
decimation	if they all give the same time, they are probably not lying	[17:12]
ascii_field	if they all give the same time, it is probably because hitler killed the others and took their keys	[17:12]
trinque	is the problem reducible to "all pogos agree on the time" ?	[17:12]
ascii_field	trinque: within +/- 2h	[17:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29346 @ 0.00055261 = 16.2169 BTC [-]	[17:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189615 << eh get out.	[17:13]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:46; ascii_field: they could still attempt to filter, but it would have to be an open declaration of war. something the gavinists are rather averse to	[17:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189613 << quite exactly.	[17:13]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:35; ben_vulpes: trivial patch to apply for anyone who's vested.	[17:13]
trinque	ascii_field: and then going down that route, anyone can diddle his pogo soon as it's in hand	[17:14]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189646 < nah	[17:14]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:00:13; ben_vulpes: wait, wedge is related to version number?	[17:14]
ascii_field	^ see log. i determined that it is entirely on account of epoch time	[17:14]
ascii_field	trinque: adjusting anything whatsoever on pogo is nontrivial for a 'civilian'	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189680 <<< i think so	[17:15]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:10:06; punkman: is this a first?	[17:15]
punkman	mazel tov	[17:16]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:17]
trinque	so this decentralized ledger thing requires centralized time	[17:17]
trinque	fascinating.	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189717 << i have no idea why the 2nd set would even exist.	[17:17]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:27:32; ascii_field: jurov: realize that, at the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from the seedlist	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	why is pogo connecting to anything but good nodes again ?	[17:17]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[17:17]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[17:18]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for another 30 minutes.	[17:18]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:18]
kakobrekla	!up ascii_field	[17:18]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:18]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: there is presently no mechanism for 'pull blocks ONLY FROM THESE'	[17:18]
ascii_field	there is only 'addnode' and 'connect'	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[17:18]
ascii_field	the latter turns the node into a kind of boat anchor while active	[17:18]
ascii_field	(no one can connect TO it)	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	well...	[17:18]
ascii_field	the former treats the added ip as equal in status to those dug up from dirt	[17:18]
ascii_field	but in ~both~ cases there is no protection from mitm	[17:19]
trinque	anybody ever looked at tinc as a starting place for a gossipd?	[17:19]
trinque	does p2p networking over RSA keys	[17:19]
ascii_field	author in wot ?	[17:20]
decimation	time is already centralized in the sense that we are all spinning on the same planet	[17:20]
ascii_field	and why would i want to bridge nets	[17:20]
decimation	the question is merely 'who do you trust to tell you the correct phase of rotation'	[17:20]
punkman	http://www.tinc-vpn.org/documentation-1.1/Libraries.html#Libraries uses openssl	[17:21]
assbot	tinc Manual: Libraries ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgUvtT )	[17:21]
ascii_field	punkman: ~barf~	[17:21]
trinque	kinda like that bitcoin thing	[17:21]
trinque	or if the set of things which exist does not contain the thing desired, there you have it.	[17:22]
punkman	what if you could do like tlsdate over ssh, you just dial random IPs at ssh port, get buncha timestamps	[17:22]
ascii_field	punkman: 'pogo' has no rng...	[17:23]
mike_c	block hash is rng	[17:23]
ascii_field	so doing anything 'randomly' will be problematic.	[17:23]
ascii_field	mike_c: when you have no blocks ?	[17:23]
ascii_field	(upon unboxing)	[17:23]
mike_c	i was trying to think of some way to use the block hash to determine "who" you ask for timestamps, but the list of "who" is unknowable/proveable.. ends up in the same place.	[17:24]
mike_c	time sucks.	[17:24]
ascii_field	mike_c: all the signs point to us trying to solve the utterly wrong problem.	[17:25]
ascii_field	'fried ice'	[17:25]
punkman	fried ice cream is a thing	[17:25]
trinque	ascii_field: is it +/- 2hrs or is it no more than 2hrs in the future?	[17:25]
decimation	if lizard hitler pwn's everyone's ntp servers, I think we all have bigger problems than block time epoch in bitcoin	[17:25]
trinque	you can of course accept a block from the past	[17:25]
ascii_field	decimation: it isn't an 'if'	[17:25]
trinque	why does this matter?	[17:25]
ascii_field	this is who owns them ~now~	[17:25]
ascii_field	because right now, hitler has, essentially, a button that makes just about the whole btc network shit its pants	[17:26]
trinque	say I though a block from last year at your node, I don't see why it would matter that your clock is set to tomorrow	[17:26]
ascii_field	i would like this to ~not~ be the case	[17:26]
mike_c	but if they muck with ntp they'll break themselves too	[17:26]
trinque	vs if you are set to yesterday and I give you a block from tomorrow	[17:26]
decimation	ascii_field: but that would come at the cost of fucking all clocks for all users	[17:27]
ascii_field	decimation: other users might not even notice	[17:27]
ascii_field	if it is done briefly	[17:27]
ascii_field	they will get apologies and a coupon for free blowjob at community whorehouse	[17:27]
mike_c	markets break over the stupid leap second	[17:27]
decimation	converable to dollars?	[17:27]
ascii_field	zimbabwe dollars	[17:27]
decimation	essentially there isn't such a thing as p2p time	[17:28]
decimation	for whatever reason nobody has thought to scratch that itch	[17:28]
ascii_field	only in so far as proof-of-work can be used	[17:28]
ascii_field	is there a notion of p2p time.	[17:28]
decimation	right, but that requires a trusted way to ask a bitcoind "what's the timestamp of the last verified block'	[17:28]
decimation	in the existing network, I suspect 99% of the miners are using ntpd traceable to some usg organ	[17:29]
ascii_field	and the 1% - .cn	[17:29]
decimation	aye	[17:29]
decimation	who knew that we needed a #b-a astronomer	[17:30]
trinque	anyone clear on whether it's +/- 2hrs or what I said?	[17:30]
ascii_field	but we already established that miners are clinically retarded	[17:30]
*	trinque goes to inspect the function which does this	[17:30]
decimation	ascii_field: I wonder if satoshi thought that these nodes would be anonymous?	[17:30]
decimation	rather than the blatent centralizing points that they actually are?	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	he thought that everyone will run one and so it'll be too noisy to follow them.	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	because humanity is humanitarian and similar windows-powered bullshit.	[17:31]
ascii_field	^^	[17:32]
decimation	yeah, seems legit	[17:32]
*	decimation puts 'celesial navigation' on the library list	[17:32]
ascii_field	did nobody ever discuss the time thing? i have trouble believing this	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	markets break over the stupid leap second << no they don't.	[17:32]
decimation	it's come up a couple of times here, but not in the context of the 2h epoch	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189820 << well, and some "follow this text file with instructions for the software part". but yes.	[17:35]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:53:03; ascii_field: right now, our pictured supply chain looks like 'any pogo -> any ethernet jack'	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	and this is mportant.	[17:35]
ascii_field	aha	[17:35]
*	Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189839 << well done ty.	[17:36]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:56:14; danielpbarron: jurov mircea_popescu sent	[17:36]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:36]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189862 << you know there COULD be something here.	[17:38]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:59:08; trinque: some way of signaling current time via invalid transactions?	[17:38]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189541 << pretty much nada.	[17:38]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 18:30:13; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski whaddaya know about this glynn-ward character?	[17:38]
*	WolfGoethe (~textual@65.209.61.114) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	just as long as we put THE REAL TIME as a txn in every block, pogos can be fine	[17:38]
*	WolfGoethe has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)	[17:38]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: my objection was 'uses magic key'	[17:38]
*	felipelalli has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	so it does. there's no way out,.	[17:38]
pete_dushenski	"6 July 04:00: A new fork occurred starting 5 July at 21:30 with three blocks before the valid chain again became the strongest chain."	[17:38]
ascii_field	there's gotta be a way out.	[17:38]
*	WolfGoethe (~textual@65.209.61.114) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski will the lulz never cease.	[17:39]
ascii_field	l0l!!	[17:39]
pete_dushenski	"Reports that the situation has passed are not correct. Please continue to wait 30 more confirmations than you usually would wait before accepting a transaction."	[17:39]
trinque	the message processing story in bitcoin is a shitshow	[17:39]
*	trinque digs further	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	very useful, this network that takes 5 hours to confirm txn	[17:39]
pete_dushenski	please to see "list of forks" https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining#list-of-forks	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	thanks power rangers!	[17:39]
assbot	Some Miners Generating Invalid Blocks ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgWwpR )	[17:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00055396 = 4.3209 BTC [+]	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189880 << this isn't possible.	[17:40]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 20:03:11; ascii_field: probably the only Right Thing (tm) solution is to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall time entirely	[17:40]
pete_dushenski	megazord tips his cap	[17:40]
trinque	maybe I'm an idiot, but I feel like you only get so many if statements per function..	[17:40]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: why so certain that impossible ?	[17:41]
trinque	"disconnect if we connected to ourself" << LOL	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	because bitcoin is secured by mining which happens irl and the difficulty of mining is set on the basis of irl entropy.	[17:41]
trinque	put your dick down, bitcoin	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	this is not a fully virtual system	[17:41]
ascii_field	why couldn't the difficulty be set based on accumulated work ?	[17:42]
pete_dushenski	http://dorkshelf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads//2014/05/600-power-rangers-comic-cluckster.png << eerily relevant : "time to wipe smile off that goofy clock's face"	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	nope	[17:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RgWM8k )	[17:42]
ascii_field	(yes, it would end up climbing monotonically...)	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	it wouldn't make any further sense.	[17:42]
ascii_field	the reward could still follow the same asymptotic	[17:43]
ascii_field	assuming that nuclear war doesn't send us back to cpu mining	[17:43]
*	DanielBTC (~DanielBTC@177.103.14.228) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:43]
ascii_field	'Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining...' << can haz network without 50% hash power belonging to diagnosable retarded folks plz ??!!	[17:45]
decimation	does SPV mining really give you that much 'edge'? It seems dubious to me	[17:45]
ascii_field	as (i think it was) mircea_popescu pointed out, it looks like the miners have not been sufficiently darwined yet	[17:46]
jurov	estimated time to fully verify a block is 20 seconds	[17:46]
ascii_field	and need a couplea catastrophic megadeaths	[17:46]
jurov	;;calc 20/600	[17:46]
gribble	0.0333333333333	[17:46]
ascii_field	to help their collective iq move into the double digits at least	[17:46]
jurov	3% advantage	[17:46]
pete_dushenski	huge.	[17:47]
ascii_field	jurov: let me guess, nobody's written a multicore verifier ?	[17:47]
trinque	ascii_field: http://deedbot.org/stator-lcov/bitcoin/bitcoin/src/main.cpp.gcov.html << line #1265 appears to check for being in the future, not past	[17:47]
jurov	even if multicore, there's still i/o	[17:47]
trinque	so why can't my node's time just be far-future?	[17:47]
ascii_field	jurov: on my measurements, it's almost entirely cpu-bound	[17:47]
trinque	is this a worthwhile experiment?	[17:47]
ascii_field	trinque: because then you can be attacked in various ways	[17:48]
decimation	I wonder if someone could make money by 'brokering' txns on behalf of miners	[17:48]
trinque	ascii_field: making me eat lots of invalid blocks?	[17:48]
ascii_field	http://culubas.blogspot.gr/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html ( linked earlier )	[17:48]
assbot	culubas: Timejacking & Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ezxqkc )	[17:48]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22280 @ 0.00053981 = 12.027 BTC [-] {2}	[17:48]
trinque	!up ascii_field	[17:48]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:48]
ascii_field	incidentally, does anyone else suspect that cn miners, on account of their microscopic profit margins, are ripe for usgization ?	[17:49]
ascii_field	'you can make engineer's wages doing what you're doing. or you can do exactly same thing, but use spv and give us root, and your swiss account will grow by 100k/mo.'	[17:50]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-07-2015#1187499 << see also	[17:50]
assbot	Logged on 04-07-2015 22:28:31; mircea_popescu: anyway, the main sufferance in my head atm is that reading the chinese stuff (in translation) clarifies in my head an objection that may well be a second major flaw to the protocol, after the "relay nodes gotta do it for the glory" : its altogether unclear a purely financial incentive is the correct solution for miners.	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	of course they are.	[17:52]
ascii_field	these folks' time horizon is perhaps... 2 weeks long ?	[17:54]
ascii_field	i suppose all the 'proper confucians' with millenium-long time cocks are employed as colonels in pla or whatnot	[17:54]
ascii_field	and not mining	[17:54]
ascii_field	seems like collectively chinese see bitcoin the same way they saw crimea	[17:55]
ascii_field	a place to farm to death, to the bedrock	[17:55]
ascii_field	and leave	[17:55]
ascii_field	like locusts	[17:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00052881 = 18.2968 BTC [-]	[17:55]
pete_dushenski	"ONE MILLION new lines of code hit Linux Kernel 4.2 rc1"	[17:57]
ascii_field	go read, l0l	[17:57]
pete_dushenski	"Most of those new lines of code come from “the new amd gpu register description header”, code that Torvalds says comprises “41 per cent of the entire patch” and has created a “... somewhat odd situation where a single driver is about half of the whole rc1 in number of lines.”"	[17:57]
ascii_field	(probably mostly mods)	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field in fairness that's how they saw china too	[17:58]
ascii_field	aha	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	which is why no cows, no trees, everyone on tatamis	[17:58]
ascii_field	who hasn't seen the rivers (literally) of toxic sludge	[17:58]
ascii_field	the 'gutter oil' restaurants, etc	[17:59]
punkman	https://www.bitpremier.com/5-real-estate/1570-luxury-villa-greece-kalamata-4025-sqm	[18:01]
assbot	BitPremier — Luxury Villa, Kalamata, Greece ... ( http://bit.ly/1RgYNS6 )	[18:01]
punkman	I don't even want to know how much tax the owner is paying on that	[18:03]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field gotta be a lot of magic numbers	[18:07]
thestringpuller	d00d. why do I have to wait 30 confirmations?!?	[18:13]
*	MiningBuddy (~MiningBud@unaffiliated/miningbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:13]
punkman	"We all got access to C. Pozzi's GPG key! https://paste.debian.net/279527/ #hackedteam"	[18:15]
assbot	404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rh0teo )	[18:15]
thestringpuller	ascii_field: did you get past the wedge yet in 0.5.3.x? or do you still not have access to a node?	[18:15]
scoopbot_revived	Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis Resigns in Failure http://qntra.net/2015/07/greek-finance-minister-varoufakis-resigns-in-failure/	[18:17]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45981 @ 0.00051916 = 23.8715 BTC [-]	[18:19]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_field	[18:20]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3852 @ 0.00051916 = 1.9998 BTC [-]	[18:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14428 @ 0.00051911 = 7.4897 BTC [-]	[18:23]
punkman	pete_dushenski: "in which Greek citizens refused to accept austerity measures" in case it wasn't clear, the referendum question was "do you like this deal? answer yes or no". and the next deal won't be much different either.	[18:26]
pete_dushenski	i imagine you're right	[18:26]
pete_dushenski	all that 'dignity' and yet no bread on the table	[18:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00051916 = 8.6181 BTC [+]	[18:35]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo seems that the "yanis gaming industry" link was added twice in the same (3rd) paragraph	[18:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59917 @ 0.00051916 = 31.1065 BTC [+] {2}	[18:44]
BingoBoingo	Ah	[18:46]
*	Drhelmut has quit ()	[18:46]
BingoBoingo	it works	[18:46]
punkman	6th or 7th finance minister in 5 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_Tsakalotos	[18:49]
assbot	Euclid Tsakalotos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1JQwmnf )	[18:49]
*	CheckDavid (uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhzdqkplzptkmzpx) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:50]
punkman	;;ticker	[18:50]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 274.96, Best ask: 274.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 274.98, 24 hour volume: 56638.18757788, 24 hour low: 267.33, 24 hour high: 278.69, 24 hour vwap: None	[18:50]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7120 @ 0.00052881 = 3.7651 BTC [+]	[18:50]
punkman	;;ba,bull	[18:50]
gribble	Error: "ba,bull" is not a valid command.	[18:50]
punkman	;;bc,bull	[18:50]
gribble	Next Price Estimate: 302.489 \| Next Price In About 2 days, 21 hours, 36 minutes, and 24 seconds	[18:50]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,bear	[18:52]
gribble	Next Price Estimate: 219.968 \| Next Price In About 3 days, 0 hours, 20 minutes, and 24 seconds \| It's tanking!	[18:52]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:55]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:55]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190105 << plz see today's log	[18:55]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 21:11:18; thestringpuller: ascii_field: did you get past the wedge yet in 0.5.3.x? or do you still not have access to a node?	[18:55]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1190103 << already censored	[18:55]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 21:11:03; punkman: "We all got access to C. Pozzi's GPG key! https://paste.debian.net/279527/ #hackedteam"	[18:56]
ascii_field	speaking of which, i've often thought of adding an 'i know a private key!' box to phuctor	[18:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00053521 = 4.8169 BTC [+]	[18:57]
punkman	ascii_field: maybe better place for that in new keyserver?	[18:58]
pete_dushenski	;;nethash	[18:59]
gribble	396177655.034	[18:59]
pete_dushenski	c'mon 400 !	[18:59]
*	jborkl has quit (Quit: jborkl)	[19:03]
BingoBoingo	stator up to 248926	[19:07]
mod6	333k+	[19:09]
ascii_field	punkman: keyserver is presumably for use as a keyserver, rather than place to hang the severed heads of pwned folks ?	[19:09]
ascii_field	incidentally, for anyone who missed, the public node is working and synced	[19:11]
ascii_field	and go, connect to it.	[19:11]
ascii_field	195.211.154.159	[19:11]
ascii_field	;;later tell mircea_popescu please consider posting your blkxxxx which encompass the two most recent forks	[19:14]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[19:14]
ascii_field	i would like to compare it with mine.	[19:14]
*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:15]
*	assbot gives voice to TomServo	[19:15]
BingoBoingo	Ah, public node has maxversion	[19:17]
shinohai	I am so close to 350k	[19:17]
TomServo	Ahoy all, just wanted to pass long: my 0.5.3 node is humming along, currently reporting blockheight 364171.	[19:22]
TomServo	If that's of any significance.	[19:22]
BingoBoingo	cool	[19:25]
*	HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[19:26]
*	funkenstein (~josed@64.223.219.76) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:27]
*	funkenstein is now known as funkenstein_	[19:28]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[19:29]
*	WolfGoethe has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)	[19:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5118 @ 0.00053983 = 2.7628 BTC [+]	[19:33]
shinohai	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1111974.msg0;boardseen#new	[19:35]
assbot	HOT! Domain BTC .CO.DE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5bYeL )	[19:35]
shinohai	^ 10 BTC is steep for a domain name, but I like it	[19:35]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[19:35]
kakobrekla	here i replied https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1111974.msg11808524#msg11808524	[19:38]
assbot	HOT! Domain BTC .CO.DE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1gk5WAt )	[19:38]
pete_dushenski	"CoinbaseAdrian 30 points an hour ago* : Sorry guys, we're looking into this. It appears to be an issue with our network provider (Cloudflare). We have an urgent ticket open with them and I'll update here with any details." << response to coinbase being offline	[19:38]
danielpbarron	;;later tell asciilifeform I get a segmentation fault http://danielpbarron.com/blkcut.txt	[19:40]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[19:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1gk6aHJ )	[19:40]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[19:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12608 @ 0.00051911 = 6.5449 BTC [-] {2}	[19:48]
pete_dushenski	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3cbuq1/im_the_author_of_the_bitcoin_revolution_an/ << oh travis tequilahead, how the mighty "thought leader" has fallen. you've stumbled from writing on your own blog to hacking up scamdesk, and now all the way down to the very bottom of the barrel with reddit. all in the course of, what, 2 weeks ?	[19:52]
assbot	I'm the author of The Bitcoin Revolution: An Internet of Money and founder of Diginomics, Ask Me Anything! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5e12x )	[19:52]
pete_dushenski	"SuperSecretTech: How many bitcoin do you own?" TravisPatron: Not as many as I would like."	[19:54]
pete_dushenski	and so it will always be, travis. so it will always be.	[19:54]
pete_dushenski	looking forward to seeing tequilahead becoming the 8th greek finance minister in 5 years.	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	they deserve each other.	[19:55]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189808 << can attest to this having opened 12 in a row today, although it goes sorta smoothly once you get the hang of it	[19:55]
assbot	Logged on 06-07-2015 19:51:35; ascii_field: just opening that plastic box is already adding more labour cost than everything we previously considered to be involved in setup put together	[19:55]
TomServo	pete_dushenski: Didja find a way to boot OpenBSD on the edgerouter from USB or are you using the nfs boot option?	[19:56]
pete_dushenski	TomServo i found another computer with a serial port that actually talked to the serial cable i have. the usb adapter i bought was b0rked.	[19:57]
*	hdbuck has quit (Quit: hdbuck)	[19:57]
pete_dushenski	using just rj45 to db9	[19:58]
TomServo	But last I read booting OpenBSD required booting over the network, rather than install on the USB drive due to lack of a USB driver	[20:00]
*	aabtc (uid27975@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dvnrmcesciuwwgoo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:04]
pete_dushenski	first you unplug the usb drive from inside the edgerouter, plug it into your computer, install openbsd on it, unpack it, reinstall the drive in the edgerouter, establish a serial connection, and start talking.	[20:05]
pete_dushenski	!up aabtc	[20:05]
*	assbot gives voice to aabtc	[20:05]
trinque	http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/06/us-boston-bombings-trial-idUSKCN0PG26R20150706 << "death to america" y'know... unless you wanna appeal your death sentence	[20:05]
assbot	Boston Marathon bomber files motion seeking new trial	[20:05]
trinque	fuck that kid.	[20:05]
TomServo	pete_dushenski: Ah cool, I'll give it a go. Thanks.	[20:08]
pete_dushenski	np!	[20:08]
*	pete_dushenski is pleased that his amateurishness is of use to anyone ever.	[20:09]
pete_dushenski	or i should say, my tragedishness	[20:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00052669 = 7.9004 BTC [+]	[20:09]
BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: Win response http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/trading/uks-fca-issues-warning-against-bitcoin-brokers-bit4x-and-venetfx/	[20:13]
assbot	UK’s FCA Issues Warning Against Bitcoin Brokers Bit4X and VenetFX \| Finance Magnates ... ( http://bit.ly/1H5gnhI )	[20:13]
kakobrekla	thats superold	[20:15]
kakobrekla	but yeah, wouldnt it?	[20:15]
pete_dushenski	you'd think so.	[20:15]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20450 @ 0.00052008 = 10.6356 BTC [-]	[20:18]
*	slikers (uid94287@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqjwokzkbmkipxfr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:22]
danielpbarron	!up slikers	[20:26]
*	assbot gives voice to slikers	[20:26]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[20:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00052669 = 18.2761 BTC [+]	[20:27]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188147 << now that you mention it, it occurs to me that my 0.7.2 node had been fully synched (until the recent wedge) running on a single 5400 rpm drive and 8 gigs of ram	[20:27]
assbot	Logged on 05-07-2015 11:33:19; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185700 << in my experience, you can use spinning rust if you throw in 8GB RAM	[20:27]
*	BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:29]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188174 << it's a +1 ! those usually come with "details" like "fresh blood"	[20:30]
assbot	Logged on 05-07-2015 12:18:42; mats: too light on actual details imo	[20:30]
*	diana_coman has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[20:33]
decimation	pete_dushenski: I thought that openbsd didn't support the usb storage driver for edgerouter	[20:35]
decimation	if you are saying otherwise than that is good	[20:35]
*	assbot removes voice from aabtc	[20:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25884 @ 0.00052669 = 13.6328 BTC [+]	[20:36]

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