Forum logs for 05 Nov 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

trinque	I am commenting on the idiocy of a thing ever taking it upon itself to erase the history of its own operation	[00:00]
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asciilifeform	trinque: you don't ever flush your toilet ?	[00:00]
trinque	when it is sitting on a system where the user can decide to do this if he chooses	[00:00]
trinque	no, but my shits do not flush the toilet for themselves....	[00:01]
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asciilifeform	there is no human user on, e.g., pogo.	[00:01]
asciilifeform	it is poured into cement.	[00:01]
asciilifeform	in orbit	[00:01]
asciilifeform	yet it still makes sense to have a small 'crash recorder' sort of log, for when it shits itself.	[00:02]
asciilifeform	how do you propose to do this ?	[00:02]
asciilifeform	unrelatedly,	[00:02]
asciilifeform	but this is pure gold,	[00:02]
asciilifeform	esp for mircea_popescu:	[00:02]
asciilifeform	#ifdef M_GUARD	[00:02]
asciilifeform	if( a ) {	[00:02]
asciilifeform	#error "--enable-m-guard does not currently work"	[00:02]
asciilifeform	^^^^^^^^^ guess from where ^^^^^^^^^	[00:02]
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asciilifeform	trinque: you do know that aircraft crash boxes traditionally ran the tape in a loop, right ?	[00:04]
asciilifeform	because guess what, finite tape fits in box.	[00:04]
asciilifeform	and it was not deemed acceptable for the box to ever not be recording.	[00:05]
trinque	this log file is a small fraction of the size of the blockchain which is also constantly being written	[00:05]
asciilifeform	no	[00:05]
asciilifeform	think about it	[00:05]
asciilifeform	a) a wedged node still pisses into the log b) log contains tx ids, many of which correspond to nothing that ends up in the blocks	[00:06]
trinque	I was thinking of a lower log level than whatever I'd expect from "debug" but in that case yes	[00:06]
asciilifeform	i have machines here where the size of the log approaches the size of the blockchain.	[00:06]
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trinque	asciilifeform: why not have the thing barf everything to stdout and stderr and let whatever's out there do with it what it pleases; opposed to unix-y small proggies that do one thing here?	[00:16]
phf	mod6: you might be right not wanting to `use`. i decided to look at file::temp to see how they do ffi, but instead it's a custom perl written blob. probably reasonable to use, but.. in any case i recommend at least conforming to the api of mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXX") => /tmp/fooAj5. i took a stab at a sample code, http://paste.lisp.org/display/158520, but there are some other things to keep in mind,	[00:17]
phf	e.g. http://search.cpan.org/~dagolden/File-Temp-0.2304/lib/File/Temp.pm#safe_level (particularly if you read the paragraph under HIGH)	[00:17]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Hsnu4e )	[00:17]
asciilifeform	trinque: and when it runs daemonized ?	[00:17]
trinque	runit runs things in precisely this manner, and is the smallest init guy I know	[00:18]
asciilifeform	see, the whole 'unix philosophy' thing would be considerably more interesting if we had a machine where it actually... worked.	[00:18]
asciilifeform	trinque: i don't even know how big it is, but will tell you that it is too big for pogo.	[00:18]
trinque	....	[00:18]
asciilifeform	because ANYTHING is too big	[00:18]
trinque	there will be no init?	[00:18]
asciilifeform	prolly not.	[00:19]
asciilifeform	(why waste the precious ram on that ??)	[00:19]
trinque	one sec while I go find the ram usage of runit on a similar device	[00:19]
asciilifeform	if it's 8kb that's too much.	[00:19]
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asciilifeform	my argument here is not that the behaviour of the classic debug log is a beautiful thing, but that any change to bitcoin that MAKES MANDATORY the presence of so much as an 8kB proggy on the machine, is LETHAL	[00:22]
asciilifeform	to pogo.	[00:22]
phf	should there even be logs on pogo?	[00:23]
asciilifeform	phf: log in the airplane 'black box' sense only.	[00:23]
asciilifeform	if that.	[00:23]
asciilifeform	moreover, since unix has no future, but unfortunately we are stuck with a junkyard of rusting x86 and arm boxes, it makes sense for bitcoin to evolve in the direction of being an os	[00:23]
trinque	bout two orders of magnitude north of that	[00:23]
phf	in that case you'd better truncate it doing run too, because if that pogo doesn't go down, there's no cap on the log	[00:24]
asciilifeform	but it does NOT make sense for it to evolve in the direction of being 'a good unix util'	[00:24]
trinque	this makes sense	[00:25]
asciilifeform	... not that the thing is in any way close to being pogoizable	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	!up woivis	[00:26]
-assbot-	You voiced woivis for 30 minutes.	[00:26]
*	assbot gives voice to woivis	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[00:27]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 445.21, Best ask: 445.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 445.2, 24 hour volume: 285121.27754096, 24 hour low: 366.66, 24 hour high: 504.0, 24 hour vwap: None	[00:27]
asciilifeform	and it won't be a matter of a few changed lines, either.	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	this is better than daytime dramaz	[00:27]
woivis	thank you mircea	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	aha. who're you ?	[00:27]
trinque	init on the same device is taking about 300kb more than runit, as on this thing I have the former starting the latter	[00:27]
asciilifeform	trinque: neither really belongs there.	[00:28]
asciilifeform	in fact, a battlefield bitcoinatron has no business having a conventional 'userland' at all.	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316733 << we applaud this notion.	[00:28]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 02:46:35; mod6: i dont wanna "use" anything if it can be helped.	[00:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: then you will love the current thread...	[00:28]
*	asciilifeform brb, food	[00:29]
*	mircea_popescu getting there	[00:29]
*	trinque is curiously googling what init=bitcoind would take	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316749 << the principle of this is sound. if you're debugging on pogo you've got more pressing problems than the log. such as your psychotherapy appointment.	[00:30]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 02:54:26; asciilifeform: on a machine like pogo it does not make sense to produce the log at all	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316757 << lol zing.	[00:31]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 03:00:13; trinque: no, but my shits do not flush the toilet for themselves....	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316768 << heh.	[00:31]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 03:01:40; asciilifeform: #error "--enable-m-guard does not currently work"	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	actually the rotating tape is not such a bad idea. not just for pogo-log, but in general. wild notion, but, asciilifeform how about memory allocator that simply overwrites the beginning ?	[00:33]
phf	system message buffer operates that way (i.e. what you get with dmesg)	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316780 << i have no idea why reasonable to use.	[00:34]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 03:16:02; phf: mod6: you might be right not wanting to `use`. i decided to look at file::temp to see how they do ffi, but instead it's a custom perl written blob. probably reasonable to use, but.. in any case i recommend at least conforming to the api of mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXX") => /tmp/fooAj5. i took a stab at a sample code, http://paste.lisp.org/display/158520, but there are some other things to keep in mind,	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	phf so it does.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	and for this same exact reason, as alf would say, "cement".	[00:35]
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trinque	I suppose given you can fire up networking entirely from within the linux kernel, init=bitcoind may be all that is needed at some point	[00:35]
phf	mircea_popescu: i honestly thought it was a thin wrapper around call to unix mkdtemp, glad i checked	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	trinque the eventual end goal is to have bitcoinix. as alf says, no userland at all. nor really a kernel in the common sense.	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	kinda have a) a nix ; b) a bitcoin and c) an obvious pogo-merge for these two.	[00:36]
phf	apropos this conversation, emacs as init http://informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html, prototyped using "user-mode-linux", http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net something that could be used for bitcoind	[00:38]
assbot	Page Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpLA7E )	[00:38]
assbot	The User-mode Linux Kernel Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1OpLA7G )	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	back to tape : not to mention that since these these things are virtualized, you could in principle specify how you wish the available mem to be split among the various rotating tapes.	[00:38]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: an allocator that knows that it is acceptable to lose some old bits is called a circular buffer and behaves like a looped tape, yes	[00:51]
asciilifeform	e.g., your nic's buffers	[00:51]
asciilifeform	everything on your box that can safely behave this way, pretty much already does.	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	why not mempool ?	[00:51]
asciilifeform	mempool is a great example	[00:51]
asciilifeform	of a mechanism which ought to work this way	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	but not implemented thus currently.	[00:51]
asciilifeform	(see old threads where we beat this to a liquid pulp)	[00:52]
mircea_popescu	apparently not liquid enough. "liquifying - works ; drinking - not yet."	[00:52]
asciilifeform	^ aha.	[00:53]
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trinque	asciilifeform: thinking the kernel's automount mech. for pogo's external disk slot?	[00:57]
asciilifeform	mount at warmup.	[00:58]
asciilifeform	why ever any time else?	[00:58]
*	trinque nods	[01:00]
*	assbot gives voice to liquidassets	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	so the fucking web idiots have come up with a novel css hell that chokes my browsers.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck these fucking idiots and theyr css. should be hanged.	[01:02]
asciilifeform	this happens regularly enough.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	your "formatting" does not work inline, go die in a fire.	[01:02]
liquidassets	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1316034 << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no?	[01:02]
assbot	Logged on 04-11-2015 18:50:13; *: asciilifeform would like input from his WoT re: what is the correct thing to do with obvious usg honeytrapping as described earlier.	[01:02]
trinque	whole thing is a massive sin	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	it has its merits liquidassets	[01:03]
liquidassets	“only the Übermensch will have the strength to fully accept all of his past life, including his failures and misdeeds, and to truly will their eternal return” grepped straight from the logz	[01:03]
liquidassets	anytime you're opened up to liability, the one who documents best seems to win	[01:05]
BingoBoingo	... << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no? << Yes, like that time I blogged the FBI visit to my front door	[01:06]
BingoBoingo	For honeydicking, I am less certain the proper course of action	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	pics help.	[01:11]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 7.47500000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b40	[01:11]
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liquidassets	Exactly BingoBoingo except I still have to go back and read more to get the full context	[01:15]
liquidassets	honeydicking <	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	4:1 on trump ? cmon.	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ?	[01:18]
asciilifeform	wat about the chick	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	who ?	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	the republicans also have chicks now ?	[01:19]
asciilifeform	the one that killed hp	[01:19]
trinque	yeah, old CEO of HP	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	ahahahaah right	[01:19]
*	tripleslash_y is now known as tripleslash	[01:19]
trinque	bragged about HP's role helping the NSA under her watch, too	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	i wasn't even aware she's still ruinning	[01:20]
BingoBoingo	who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ? << Doctor Stoner is actually leading now. Rubio appears to be the establishment alternative now that Jeb is dead in the water	[01:20]
BingoBoingo	NEarly all the repubes are still ruining	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	never in history has a nobody been elected before	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	o wait... obama. nm.	[01:20]
asciilifeform	l0l aha	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	i would imagine the republicans understand enough of their small penis issues to not imagine they can pull democrat tricks.	[01:21]
BingoBoingo	Obama, Clinton, Truman...	[01:21]
trinque	Trump and Carson practically fist-bumped on stage in that CNBC "debate"; I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up running together	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	clinton was well known	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	"that guy with the hot wife"	[01:21]
BingoBoingo	Not Bill	[01:21]
BingoBoingo	George Clinton was well known at the time though	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	let's limit this discussion to "after tv"	[01:22]
BingoBoingo	;;google george clinton	[01:22]
gribble	George Clinton Parliament Funkadelic official website: ; George Clinton (musician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic - Facebook:	[01:23]
BingoBoingo	^ That CLinton was well known	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[01:23]
BingoBoingo	But seriously none of the republicans are going to stop before the first primaries because they gotta build their profile in public to become TV hosts	[01:24]
BingoBoingo	It's the way of their people	[01:24]
BingoBoingo	Democrats on the other hand quit well in advance because getting appointed to various offices is the way of their people	[01:25]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts	[01:25]
BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts << Too late BitBet exists	[01:26]
asciilifeform	hey it mostly dropped sport crud	[01:29]
BingoBoingo	Sure, this may too fade	[01:30]
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BingoBoingo	!up woivis	[01:32]
*	assbot gives voice to woivis	[01:32]
trinque	perhaps asciilifeform is waiting for "The USG scam wont see 2019"	[01:33]
BingoBoingo	Mebbe	[01:34]
asciilifeform	i don't personally expect to see 2019.	[01:42]
asciilifeform	so no, won't bet.	[01:42]
BingoBoingo	These years creep up on people	[01:45]
asciilifeform	in other 'news', malloc is very very complicated.	[01:46]
BingoBoingo	fuck yeah	[01:46]
asciilifeform	considerably more so than, e.g., knuth's, garbage collector.	[01:47]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu finally dug up the sysv6-on-x86 thing. http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1114	[01:50]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:50]
assbot	Embedded in Academia : Xv6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Po3G8F )	[01:50]
asciilifeform	turned it up ~by accident~ while looking for entirely unrelated thing.	[01:50]
asciilifeform	'Xv6 is a rewrite of v6 UNIX in modern C that runs on multicore x86 chips. It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU. It took me a while to see the genius of Xv6, which is that it is simpler than I would have thought a working multicore OS with shell and filesystem could be. For example, it lacks wait queues and ready queues — in Xv6, both wakeup and scheduling are accomplished by looping over the	[01:51]
asciilifeform	all-process table. Similarly, there’s no malloc() in the kernel, but rather just a page allocator. The pipe implementation copies one byte at a time. Amazingly, even the bootloader is a pleasure to read. Another nice thing about Xv6 is that it comes with a short textbook that explains OS concepts in terms of their implementations in Xv6.'	[01:51]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[01:51]
asciilifeform	^ the animal in the lions book, rewritten for x86.	[01:55]
asciilifeform	robert morris of all people.	[01:56]
asciilifeform	i thought he was dead...	[01:56]
BingoBoingo	Shit, Unix lives again	[01:58]
asciilifeform	if that's living.	[01:58]
asciilifeform	https://github.com/ahorn/xv6 << for those who must read in www browser..	[01:59]
assbot	ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1WBspXy )	[01:59]
asciilifeform	https://github.com/ahorn/xv6/blob/master/kill.c << example of why lions book was a thing	[02:00]
assbot	xv6/kill.c at master · ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1WBstqi )	[02:00]
asciilifeform	https://github.com/ahorn/xv6/blob/master/grep.c	[02:00]
assbot	xv6/grep.c at master · ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1WBsuL2 )	[02:00]
asciilifeform	^ ~100 lines.	[02:00]
asciilifeform	'cat' is 38 lines.	[02:01]
asciilifeform	isn't it a marvel, what these looked like before the cancer ?	[02:01]
asciilifeform	i wonder if anybody's ported fabrice bellard's tinycc compiler to this.	[02:02]
asciilifeform	because then it's a complete and almost usable os.	[02:02]
asciilifeform	which could handily compile itself in a few mSec on boot.	[02:02]
*	assbot removes voice from woivis	[02:03]
asciilifeform	adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though.	[02:04]
asciilifeform	ditto drivers for any kind of actual iron beyond the interrupt controller and bare bones ata	[02:05]
asciilifeform	interestingly, multiprocessor is supported.	[02:06]
asciilifeform	reading this thing i - astonishingly - don't feel like i'm chewing on gravel	[02:07]
BingoBoingo	LIVING	[02:07]
asciilifeform	which is what reading, e.g., linux kernel, or gpg, feels like	[02:07]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all --currency eur	[02:13]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 380.387742, vol: 105198.11150770 \| BTC-E BTCEUR last: 385.119, vol: 828.06894 \| BTCChina BTCEUR last: 422.675, vol: 122629.81590000 \| Kraken BTCEUR last: 379.0, vol: 36666.8323811 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 377.0, vol: 744.07905649 \| Volume-weighted last average: 399.691877425	[02:13]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[02:13]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.42, vol: 105197.42750770 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 404.829, vol: 59697.13119 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 414.81, vol: 276471.40389639 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 15.52203902 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 459.404, vol: 122609.60230000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 409.45669, vol: 439.20838303 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 409.7613, vol: 744.07905649 \| Volume-weighted last (1 more message)	[02:14]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[02:14]
gribble	average: 423.160688002	[02:14]
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BingoBoingo	http://www.ibtimes.com/us-navy-poised-order-new-boeing-fighters-fa-18-super-hornet-jets-could-be-ordered-2168862	[02:30]
assbot	US Navy Poised To Order New Boeing Fighters, F/A-18 Super Hornet Jets Could Be Ordered Soon ... ( http://bit.ly/1kcbejJ )	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	" It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU." o.O	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ?	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though << the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage.	[02:40]
mircea_popescu	"could be ordered soon" wtf news is this	[02:41]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316953 << add a network stack, nic driver, disk caching (without which no real time bitcoin), then the unspeakable horror of even the smallest known incarnation of libc...	[02:51]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 05:37:58; mircea_popescu: you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ?	[02:51]
asciilifeform	and you get linux.	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	why do you need libc again ?	[02:51]
asciilifeform	to build bitcoin ?	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	network stack could actually be purpose built.	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[02:51]
asciilifeform	the smallest known tcp stack is that swedish one	[02:52]
asciilifeform	and it's still a mega-turd	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	not what im saying.	[02:52]
asciilifeform	hm?	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	purpose built. it does bitcoin and nothing else.	[02:52]
asciilifeform	bitcoin as presently existing rides on top of tcp.	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	fuck that.	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	it rides on top of qt and bdb, too.	[02:53]
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asciilifeform	let's rephrase, it relies on the pipe abstraction	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	and on the boost "abstraction"	[02:53]
asciilifeform	('can throw bytes from point a to point b and back and they get there in order')	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	these aren't abstractions as much as they are infections.	[02:54]
asciilifeform	anyway i'll be the last to cry for tcp.	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	seems this v6 thing would be a great starting point for a great many things.	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	encrypted conn for one.	[02:55]
asciilifeform	thing is, it only looks sexy because there is nothing sitting on it	[02:56]
asciilifeform	it is sorta like minix1	[02:56]
asciilifeform	if it were to be sat upon actual iron, it would very quickly come to resemble minix3.	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	" the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage."	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	because why ? and don't say gfx card.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	even if you make the networking go over slip (yes, it has uart driver! behold)	[02:57]
asciilifeform	you still gotta cache the disk.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	no way to weasel out of it, if you want to keep up with the blockchain.	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	so you cache the disk.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	and you need a memory allocator.	[02:58]
asciilifeform	which is absent.	[02:58]
asciilifeform	which is actually how i found this thing at all.	[02:58]
asciilifeform	was looking at ancient 'malloc's	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	right. you get one you can trust.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	like, a rowhammer immune one.	[02:58]
asciilifeform	no such thing on the pc.	[02:59]
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asciilifeform	for so long as somebody can lead you to walk contiguous path in ram, you can rowhammer.	[02:59]
asciilifeform	(if you own that particular type of iron)	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	but they can't.	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	because you write your own allocator.	[03:00]
asciilifeform	it still creates contiguous swaths	[03:00]
asciilifeform	because the pc, unlike the lisp, doesn't have 'broken hearts'	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	mmm	[03:00]
asciilifeform	(these were magical bits that one could set in any memory word, that would cause it to transparently redirect to another word)	[03:01]
asciilifeform	it abolished the need for actual continuity in allocated segments.	[03:01]
asciilifeform	but at the obvious cost of... well, having such things kicking around.	[03:01]
asciilifeform	like so many little wormholes.	[03:01]
asciilifeform	*the lispm	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	;;bc,stats	[03:02]
gribble	Current Blocks: 382118 \| Current Difficulty: 6.225398244976082E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 383039 \| Next Difficulty In: 921 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 56 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[03:02]
asciilifeform	at any rate, the correct way to build memory is - cons cells. as in, every addressable unit actually contains a word followed by another which acts solely as an address of 'next word.'	[03:05]
mircea_popescu	but that aside : if you build your own allocator you can do a lot of things you wish you could have done.	[03:06]
asciilifeform	when you desperately need speed / compactness, you use 'cdr coding' which is a cheat whereby you set a bit in the former word which signifies 'next is not an address but actually the next word.'	[03:06]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: in so far as the code is c code and the allocator needs to return contiguous regions of ram, you end up with malloc.	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	no	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	you end up with WHAT YOU THINK MALLOC IS.	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	but dollars to donuts that is pointedly not what malloc actuyally is.	[03:07]
*	asciilifeform was researching this very this	[03:08]
mircea_popescu	"this very this" lol. i'm not going to even research it. i know it's what the nexus of all diddlery would have to be if i was running the diddle department.	[03:08]
mircea_popescu	subtle, yes. there. has got to be there.	[03:09]
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asciilifeform	if you want to laugh, cry, read the one in gpg 1.4.10.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	noty	[03:09]
asciilifeform	(which has fudge factors, even, yes!)	[03:09]
asciilifeform	and rides on top of the system malloc at the same time (yes)	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	larger amt of phone number is always best	[03:10]
asciilifeform	this is one of the problems i've been fighting with for perhaps a year now.	[03:10]
asciilifeform	and the only promising heuristic thus far is a somewhat mircea_popescuine one - namely, to de-generalize the problem	[03:11]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: myes, although mayhap we talk of different things	[03:11]
asciilifeform	(don't guarantee any arbitrary allocs whenever, but only bignums and only in strictly defined progression)	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	there should, i imagine, be a way to extract significant cheating out of the fact that we don't intend to support random gunk.	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes what do you have in mind ?	[03:12]
ben_vulpes	various kinds of salaried and hourly employment. yourself?	[03:12]
ben_vulpes	"employ" in the states is a peculiar contractual arrangement where the employer agrees to remit taxes on behalf of the employed.	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	well, ok, but specifically. sf salary + benefits ? oregon salary + sorta ? low salary + equity ?	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	and doing what, webstuff in java only ? or ?	[03:13]
ben_vulpes	ah	[03:13]
ben_vulpes	i pay technical staff hourly rates such that should staff choose to work a 35+ hour week, they'd make depending on their value to my org ±10% of a bigcorp salary.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ?	[03:15]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: l0l srsly, 10%?!! what are they, legless cambodians, hanging in nets ?	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes and do you have workload they can actually work 35 hour weeks every week ? and doing what, tech wise ? js ? ruby ? py ? perl ?	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform +-10% means 90 to 110%	[03:16]
asciilifeform	ah	[03:16]
*	asciilifeform has been, perhaps, out of bed for too long	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: heh.	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	re technologies, we do mobile in obj-c, swift (i guess theoretically), java, server stuff in python/django/whatever, ruby/rails/whatever, java/clojure/{it's all algol you know}, and actual web stuff in whatever hodgepodge of html/css and js is already in place or pretty well-curated tools that...abstract over the hodgepodge to one degree or another.	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	well... asciilifeform meet ben_vulpes ; ben_vulpes meet asciilifeform	[03:19]
asciilifeform	i think i met ben_vulpes somewhere	[03:19]
asciilifeform	l0l	[03:19]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: staff are guaranteed 32 hours/wk, client work backstopped out of my pocket.	[03:19]
ben_vulpes	i can always cook up work for people to do on my own tooling.	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	alfie grew an extra hand, was looking for exactly this type of flexible deal to help pay for his latest nuclear missile arrangement.	[03:20]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: you're familiar with stan's line about "working on anything not of my own mind is only slightly better than suicide"?	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	eh fuck him, what, he gets a say now ?	[03:20]
asciilifeform	eh i do items like 'port $proggy to $toaster'	[03:21]
asciilifeform	or 'determine if this hdd is able to serve up diddled boot sector.'	[03:21]
ben_vulpes	well should i need someone to port eulora to ipad i'll ring him up	[03:21]
asciilifeform	do.	[03:21]
asciilifeform	will port to supernintendo if someone wants.	[03:22]
ben_vulpes	as it stands, he hates the kind of work my shop does, and i have a list of people who also hate the kind of work that we do but also find the company company so beguiling that they're willing and sometimes even eager to do it anyways.	[03:22]
*	asciilifeform cannot compete with coolies either in cost or in enthusiasm	[03:23]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform knows: life in the galleys is marginally less miserable with phri3ndz	[03:23]
asciilifeform	aha.	[03:24]
ben_vulpes	not eager to do it, i misspoke. eager to spend time in our mines rather than wherever they slave normally.	[03:25]
ben_vulpes	oh and shut the fuck up	[03:25]
ben_vulpes	i know your rates, and you could live comfortably out here.	[03:25]
ben_vulpes	220V, 3 phase, a poured pad, and nobody would bat an eye if you weather-proofed the ADU.	[03:26]
asciilifeform	not looking for indenture with quarter. more of an old-fashioned thing-with-deliverables	[03:26]
ben_vulpes	d'you know? i only landed my first of those within the past month.	[03:27]
asciilifeform	congrats ben_vulpes	[03:27]
ben_vulpes	operating as a corporation rather than an individual has benefits like that.	[03:28]
ben_vulpes	much like picking up chixx, it's easier if you have a few in tow already.	[03:29]
ben_vulpes	also worth mentioning that gracefully handling rapidly shifting requirements is core to how the business operates.	[03:30]
asciilifeform	i suppose this means that ben_vulpes is also ready to port to supernintendo.	[03:31]
ben_vulpes	port natoblock $thing, sure.	[03:32]
ben_vulpes	!s bezzlecorp	[03:33]
assbot	2 results for 'bezzlecorp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bezzlecorp	[03:33]
ben_vulpes	it is purpose designed, asciilifeform.	[03:33]
*	asciilifeform remembers very well what ben_vulpes's shop makes, from hanging out at c3.	[03:33]
*	ben_vulpes is unsure if this is wankery or pricing exercise	[03:34]
*	mircea_popescu wonders himself.	[03:35]
asciilifeform	prolly the former	[03:35]
mircea_popescu	mkay.	[03:35]
ben_vulpes	if i find anything, i'll let you know	[03:36]
asciilifeform	ty.	[03:36]
asciilifeform	or wake me up if folks start paying for sunlight, aha.	[03:37]
ben_vulpes	if you want intros to indenturitude, i can provide this as well.	[03:37]
asciilifeform	no but ty.	[03:37]
ben_vulpes	culture out here is such that you can skirt by for ~30/wk and a relatively cheap commute, with no "lifetime commitment".	[03:38]
ben_vulpes	this provides for some small amount of thinking time.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	30 whats ?	[03:38]
asciilifeform	not interested in indenture.	[03:38]
ben_vulpes	hrs	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	ah ah	[03:39]
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asciilifeform	at any rate, i must confess that i don't do www or ipnohe for any amount of pay.	[03:41]
ben_vulpes	do consider the improvement in the serf's quality of life when biking (or walking!) thirty minutes to and fro the galley each day, compared to the hour in the wheelbox each direction that can be had in other places, composed with the shorter work week that is possible.	[03:41]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: for log readers only, this confession.	[03:41]
asciilifeform	aha.	[03:41]
ben_vulpes	and googOS?	[03:41]
asciilifeform	ditto	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	not necessarily unrelated, http://38.media.tumblr.com/d9339db6fd73911e33ca9b1641e31b12/tumblr_n5mvjw7ee01ts9k3wo1_400.gif	[03:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PoiT9Q )	[03:42]
asciilifeform	^ aha this is a good picture of www programming.	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	anyway, this "can't have X, can't have non-X" sorta thing will necessarily resolve itself in time. there's no other way.	[03:42]
asciilifeform	guess what, i don't give milk either.	[03:44]
asciilifeform	or lay eggs.	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	also liable to resolve in time	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	random thought of the day : wtf is this "boyfriend" bs. girlfriend i can see, but it's manfriend innit.	[03:45]
asciilifeform	why not 'cockfriend'	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	maybe if you're gay.	[03:46]
asciilifeform	does have that flavour, doesntit	[03:46]
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liquidassets	Boyfriend suggests, ‘he’s not fucking other women just me’ Manfriend, not so.	[04:16]
BingoBoingo	Boyfriend suggest alterboy being buggered over the altar	[04:32]
punkman	guten morgen	[04:36]
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punkman	heh http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/04/pentagon-farmed-out-its-coding-to-russia.html	[05:02]
assbot	Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1HsLbJM )	[05:02]
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thestringpuller	;;ticker	[07:04]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 383.52, Best ask: 383.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 383.52, 24 hour volume: 286173.58836608, 24 hour low: 366.66, 24 hour high: 504.0, 24 hour vwap: None	[07:04]
davout	messieurs dames	[07:46]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2360 @ 0.00059225 = 1.3977 BTC [+] {7}	[09:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2246 @ 0.00073859 = 1.6589 BTC [+] {11}	[09:26]
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punkman	dat havelock action	[09:43]
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jurov	i tried to sync my 0.5.4 to core 0.11, it won't sync	[10:09]
jurov	returned to 0.10 which works	[10:10]
shinohai	;;later tell SuchWow Your quit message is atrocious. "This too is temporary, as most things are" reduces your comma usage and makes you not sound like a hippy.	[10:10]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[10:10]
shinohai	jurov: I have had same results. it won't sync against new core.	[10:10]
punkman	what happens with 0.11?	[10:13]
shinohai	I can't get core to not crash 0.11 xD	[10:15]
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shinohai	I have an old 0.10.0 binary that does.	[10:16]
jurov	punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore	[10:20]
punkman	jurov, does the 0.11 instance ban the 0.5.4?	[10:22]
jurov	at first it did	[10:24]
jurov	then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11	[10:24]
jurov	then 0.5.4 connected but could not get data	[10:24]
jurov	then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later	[10:25]
shinohai	I can't say for certain until I clone my drive, had to idle it for a bit.	[10:29]
shinohai	Got new shitty 500 mb drive yesterday from china! :D	[10:29]
punkman	http://qz.com/540571/baidu-found-chinas-ghost-cities-but-it-is-keeping-their-locations-mostly-a-secret/	[10:54]
assbot	Baidu found China’s “ghost cities,” but it is keeping their locations mostly a secret - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRCXz2 )	[10:54]
shinohai	http://www.wsj.com/articles/mexicos-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-personal-marijuana-use-1446670474 << haz paywall sorry	[10:59]
assbot	Mexico’s Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Personal Marijuana Use - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRDDEx )	[10:59]
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asciilifeform	jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317133 << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ?	[12:09]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 13:24:30; jurov: then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later	[12:09]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317131 << might want to patch trb's version thing instead	[12:10]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 13:23:33; jurov: then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11	[12:10]
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mircea_popescu	liquidassets which is the point.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast << ahahahaha no, really ?	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	i tried to sync my 0.5.4 to core 0.11, it won't sync << this is a horribru error message.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore << nuts. so 0.11 is forked off the network then ?	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume << loller.	[13:48]
assbot	Bitcoin Total Output Volume ... ( http://bit.ly/1WCGRyD )	[13:48]
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thestringpuller	what's with reddit complaining about the blocksize bullshit again?	[13:55]
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trinque	The Department of Defense's posture on cybersecurity ultimately affects national security. << There's a deep cultural flaw in this sentence emanating from the word posture.	[13:56]
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mircea_popescu	why ? the country admits it's posturing.	[13:58]
trinque	the notion that merely looking like the thing you wish to be is sufficient has seeped into everything	[13:58]
trinque	right	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	this is good.	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	thank you for your leadership.	[13:58]
punkman	so according to that chart 11million btc moved in a day?	[13:59]
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mircea_popescu	i wouldn't think it's worth a crap in absolute terms.	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	"~5x more than previously average"	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	within an unknown error margin.	[14:00]
punkman	days destroyed is much smoother	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	which indicates that it's mostly people moving the same btc back and forth.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	ie, that same 1-2% of the coins that are in hands of self important usg ceo/vc types.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	my god, ceo is going to go the way of nigger and handicapped within my lifetime isn't it.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	it already is practically an insult.	[14:01]
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mircea_popescu	and mpex is back. sorry for the downtime everyone.	[14:26]
*	adlai is surprised nobody has yet accused the marshals of building the recent eiffel tower, as auction optimization	[14:30]
punkman	the what?	[14:33]
adlai	patternspeak for up-and-down. i'm probably misusing it, iirc it's only an eiffel if the down returns to levels before the up	[14:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00054231 = 15.8355 BTC [+] {2}	[14:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2360 @ 0.00053447 = 1.2613 BTC [-] {2}	[14:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00053447 = 23.3831 BTC [-]	[14:53]
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mircea_popescu	adlai because it's not true. they get accused of the scams they actually pull.	[15:10]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.33730996 BTC on 'Yes' - Luke Skywalker Turns To The Dark Side In Episode VII - http://bitbet.us/bet/1218/luke-skywalker-turns-to-the-dark-side-in/#b7	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	jurov : qntra shares added.	[15:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42793 @ 0.00054238 = 23.2101 BTC [+] {7}	[15:22]
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PeterL	mircea_popescu: so what was the problem with MPEx?	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[15:26]
*	assbot gives voice to lobbes	[15:27]
adlai	!b 2	[15:27]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/39NEZA9.txt )	[15:27]
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deedbot-	[Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) October 2015 Statement - http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-october-2015-statement/	[15:33]
PeterL	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1315952 << You are saying chemistry is not still alive? Seems to me that there is alot going on in chem right now?	[15:34]
assbot	Logged on 04-11-2015 18:01:40; asciilifeform: which more or less died out as a scientific field in the 'civilized' world.	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	jurov ^ qntra shares added, also.	[15:35]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:35]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:35]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: my broadcast later tonight when i get out of the pit	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	cool ascii_field	[15:36]
ascii_field	PeterL: most of what's happening in chem is a) usg grantsmanship b) monkey tricks to extend pharma patents. and most of what remains is being done by folks who grew up with hobby chemistry.	[15:37]
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PeterL	There is also chemistry research at, for example, Dow Chemical, which they don't publish but instead use to make themselves money, does this not count?	[15:39]
ascii_field	PeterL: in so far as i can see from my perch, nothing fundamental has happened in at least a generation.	[15:40]
ascii_field	whole thing runs on 1960s fumes.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	we were just discussing tropsch last week!	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	lots is happening.	[15:40]
ascii_field	nothing fundamental.	[15:40]
ascii_field	e.g., nylon.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	catalysts are fundamental enough.	[15:40]
ascii_field	it's massage.	[15:40]
ascii_field	e.g., +10% yield, -10% cost	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	yes well nothing fundamental has happened in physics since mendeleev	[15:40]
ascii_field	like semiconductors.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck's gonna happen, invent a new electron load ?	[15:41]
PeterL	there is alot of organic synthesis space that has been investigated since then	[15:41]
ascii_field	fission's pretty fundamental. even something like tunnel diode.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	so then catalytic chemistry counts.	[15:41]
PeterL	a bunch of small improvements adds up over time	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck do you think you have genome sequencing, otherwise, and why the fuck do you think woman's stockings is a bigger deal.	[15:42]
ascii_field	it'd be fundamental if it opens up a whole concept that was previously closed. e.g., if a catalyst were to be found that makes electrolysis of h2o reasonably efficient	[15:42]
ascii_field	or room temp supercon.	[15:42]
ascii_field	etc	[15:42]
PeterL	I see, if you push the goal posts far enough away then nobody will ever score	[15:43]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: yer looking in the wrong end of the funnel. yes, women still wear stockings, but american south no longer can have plantations, because the fiber doesn't grow out of the ground.	[15:43]
ascii_field	but comes out of a nozzle in cn.	[15:43]
ascii_field	PeterL: there is such a thing as invention.	[15:44]
ascii_field	and it - for the most part - isn't happening.	[15:45]
PeterL	but you are saying only super-invention counts?	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	this is nonsense, srlsy. the 70s-90s in catalysts are more important than anything that ever happened in chemistry.	[15:45]
ascii_field	didn't say 'useless'	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	you can fucking go around looking for biosynthesizers now, for this reason	[15:45]
ascii_field	just - not fundamental.	[15:45]
ascii_field	'fundamental' is an actual thing. it doesn't resolve to 'very spiffy', it has a meaning	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	it IS fundamental.	[15:46]
ascii_field	as in, you can build ~new~ structure on it	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	what is your definition ?	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	yes, new structure.	[15:46]
ascii_field	the 17th floor of empire state bldg is not a fundament.	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	but the FACT that now there are 17 floor buildings IS fundament.	[15:46]
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PeterL	but without the 17th floor you can't build the 18th floor	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	i don't care you sat on your tatched roof in mongolia and thus "dreamed" of skyscraper.	[15:46]
ascii_field	bldg has a foundation. it is different from the other parts of the structure in that it lets you start having floors where prior you could only sit down in the dirt.	[15:47]
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ascii_field	this is not a moral judgement, just an observation - you need different people for the foundation of a concept, than for 17th floor	[15:48]
ascii_field	poor old j.c.maxwell gets no rest when this comes up, but i'ma have to use him as example again. he didn't even bother ~trying~ to build a radio...	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	you've still not defined your "fundamental" "actula thing"	[15:49]
ascii_field	though he derived all of the maths that have or will ever apply.	[15:49]
ascii_field	~that~'s fundamental.	[15:50]
ascii_field	yesterday no one knew em wave was a thing. and then - it is.	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	and you expect this to happen in chemistry ?	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	it never happened in chemistry. it was always physics.	[15:50]
ascii_field	it was happening as late as 1960s	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	was not.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	this is like complaining electric engineering didn't invent any new type of electron.	[15:51]
ascii_field	belousov-zhabotinsky reaction.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	of course it doesn't. it's engineering.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	lol ?	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	THAT is fundamental, catalythics are now ?	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	not* ? what are you, hungarian ?	[15:51]
ascii_field	it was utterly fundamental	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	less words more proof.	[15:52]
ascii_field	startling to the point that nato lands shelved it as sov disinfo for decades	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	what nato does informs no one to no degree.	[15:52]
ascii_field	proved that thermodynamics is only stochastically applicable.	[15:52]
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ascii_field	(that energy is only conserved on a large enough time scale)	[15:52]
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ascii_field	aww i ~liked~ kakobreklaa	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	but by your very definition this is not a fundamental result.	[15:53]
ascii_field	so finnish	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	it is merely the experimental verification of the theoretically obvious	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	ever since qm reduced macro tm to the status of macro tm	[15:53]
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mircea_popescu	!up kakobreklaa	[15:54]
-assbot-	You voiced kakobreklaa for 30 minutes.	[15:54]
*	assbot gives voice to kakobreklaa	[15:54]
kakobreklaa	fuckin chanserv	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	hola!	[15:54]
kakobreklaa	nickserv i mean	[15:54]
kakobreklaa	hi	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	this inspires me! tonight ima have one girl write nickserv on her pubis, and the other chanserv	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	boi o boi am i hgonna have a fun	[15:55]
ascii_field	http://www.ux.uis.no/~ruoff/BZ_Phenomenology.html	[15:55]
assbot	BZ-Phenomenology ... ( http://bit.ly/1PdhdBA )	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	"In its classical form the BZ reaction consist of a one-electron redox catalyst"	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	aka "let's ignore what's being said and run off with one marginal example of the broad category discussed".	[15:56]
kakobreklaa	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317035 < i dont see how this fixes your dust problems - you may feel better handling it but you still need to handle it. i suspect you let some retarded algo chose your tx outputs for you amirite?	[15:56]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 06:14:54; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ?	[15:56]
ascii_field	iirc mircea_popescu was speaking of petro cracking catalysts earlier ?	[15:56]
ascii_field	which are '% massage' rather than 'new field'	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	no. speaking of catalythic chemistry. as a thing. which it is.	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	and my examples were around genome research and biosynthesizer identification	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	neither of which can be read reductionistically to "petrochem".	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	kakobreklaa it will discourage people from sending them.	[15:57]
kakobreklaa	lol, like poorfags read	[15:57]
ascii_field	these last two, i had the misfortune to be involved in.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	it's also a problem of cost. dust txn impose a cost on us.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	currently this CAN work as an extraction engine - it costs me more to make the payouts than i take in.	[15:57]
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ascii_field	l0lwut, bitbet is undergoing shitburial ?	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field so you hate them, that's fine, but you can't impugn the whole subdiscipline just because idiots somewhere	[15:58]
kakobreklaa	if you leave dust sitting long enough and at some point flush all the dust in a single tx to a nondusty result ?	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	"long enough" = cost ; flush = cost. etc.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	it is not worth my time to handle 10k satoshi txn for less than 10k satoshi. this is a fact.	[15:59]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: i don't hate'em, but i did search in vain for signs that somebody was ~thinking~ rather than merely piling intel xeons ten metres high	[15:59]
ascii_field	and doing dynamics sims	[15:59]
kakobreklaa	the long enough cost on dust is dust.	[15:59]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	think that i have to keep SOME dust over here while idiots get aggitated because "o noes it's been 25 hours" so im now creating more dust	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	which will come back to me, and i have to sit on it, and create more dust to payout.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	i suppose if you prefer i can instead make it a time rule, and be like "bets under 0.0001 are paid in a year. bets under 0.01 are paid in a week"	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	seems it is saner to be paid in money than in time, to me.	[16:00]
kakobreklaa	so you wanna make poorfags even poorer to a point where they no longer send a satoshi, is this the idea?	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	they can save up.	[16:01]
kakobreklaa	l0l	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions.	[16:01]
phf	v6 is a beauty, but for the amount of stuff that's required to be written why not lisp os?	[16:01]
punkman	why not a minimum bet amount, everything else gracious donation	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	it's just not worth anyone's time for them to exist.	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	punkman kinda what i was proposing, a progressive scale. imo the way i stated it is better pr, but whatevs.	[16:02]
ascii_field	phf: i was trying to see if anyone comes to this conclusion independently of my saying it.	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	phf because unix runs on 486 and lisp does not.	[16:02]
ascii_field	phf: THE SIMPLEST malloc() is 10x more complicated than, e.g, the gc engine in 'tinyscheme'	[16:02]
ascii_field	and it sure as fuck runs on 486	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	anyway, im off will bbl.	[16:02]
ascii_field	and even 16bit micro.	[16:02]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_field god damned weren't you going on about how it needs sbcl machine bla bla ?	[16:02]
ascii_field	for periphs	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen.	[16:03]
ascii_field	if you want to use it as a graphical terminal	[16:03]
ascii_field	let's not mix the warm and the soft	[16:03]
ascii_field	i have raw scheme going on x64 metal right now	[16:03]
ascii_field	just no useful i/o.	[16:03]
phf	mircea_popescu: i'm just stirring shit up	[16:03]
PeterL	mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do?	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	anyway bbl fo reals.	[16:04]
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kakobreklaa	way cooler to just do it arbitrarily.	[16:04]
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lobbes	!up ascii_field	[16:08]
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phf	ascii_field: my undergrad "thesis" was putting a malloc on a one of those teaching os's, it was interesting in that "wrestling with bare metal" sort of way, but then i learned how lispm does it, and realized that i was lied to	[16:08]
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ascii_field	aha	[16:09]
ascii_field	phf: i tried to explain some of this in last night's thread	[16:09]
ascii_field	but realized that my interlocutors did not know the fundamentals involved (because scarcely anybody does, and not everyone is an archaeologist)	[16:10]
thestringpuller	phf: ugh they made you do that shit too? we had to write malloc for the game boy advance, or a game boy advance game for a final project for course in C	[16:14]
phf	ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad"	[16:22]
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ascii_field	or 'gc sux because java'	[16:22]
ascii_field	etc	[16:22]
phf	right	[16:22]
kakobreklaa	live and learn	[16:24]
*	assbot removes voice from kakobreklaa	[16:24]
thestringpuller	!up kakobreklaa	[16:25]
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shinohai	http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/06/us/louisiana-police-shooting-marksville.html?_r=0	[16:28]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1KZN6FY )	[16:28]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317140 << for electrum server	[16:28]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 15:08:18; asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317133 << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ?	[16:28]
ascii_field	jurov: do i understand, this needs a heavily patched client ?	[16:29]
ascii_field	and only available presently for the heathen one ?	[16:29]
lobbes	kakobreklaa: fuckin chanserv << I know what you mean. I had to ghost my nick off earlier	[16:30]
phf	thestringpuller: it wasn't actually forced. started as a final project in william arbaugh's (the guy who did the smooth handover wireless implementation at umd) class, where we were writing a malloc for the teaching os as a final project, only three mallocs came anywhere near the spec, since mine was one of them i had the opportunity to say that the whole thing was a sham "shit code written by retards", etc. and that you can have orders	[16:31]
phf	of magnitude improvements and that the whole thing is not even funny. he suggested that i do an implementation as an indepedent study for another semester and that's what i did	[16:31]
*	ascii_field remembers this os	[16:32]
phf	i've been trying very hard for the past 15 minutes to remember its name or anything about it, and even though i spent 8 months with it, i'm completely failing to	[16:33]
ascii_field	that was where i learned to despise unix.	[16:33]
ascii_field	in my era it was named 'geek os' but it had some earlier name.	[16:33]
PeterL	if unix is so horrible, why is there no alternative taking over the world?	[16:33]
PeterL	oh, wait, windows already did, right?	[16:34]
ascii_field	PeterL: iron	[16:35]
PeterL	the element?	[16:35]
ascii_field	no, the element is mainly si	[16:35]
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trinque	PeterL: are you arguing from the wisdom of the mass market customer?	[16:40]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[16:40]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:40]
ascii_field	i'ma do a worked example for PeterL	[16:40]
ascii_field	so here goes.	[16:40]
ascii_field	your NIC, regardless of who built it, operates with ring buffers, roughly like this	[16:40]
PeterL	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-11-2015#1316588 << when I was in middle school we went on a field trip to the Warren (MI) Army Tank Plant, tour included the Cray II, cool looking room sized machine with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain	[16:40]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 01:07:56; asciilifeform: at any rate, i (and $maxint others) will port $whateverthefuckyouwant to, e.g., cray II. for a fee.	[16:40]
ascii_field	when a packet comes in over the wire, it gets thrown into a buffer pointed to by a particular register in the card's cpu, and the latter reads the addr of the next buffer from a pre-baked list	[16:41]
ascii_field	and rotates through said list.	[16:41]
ascii_field	ditto for transmission.	[16:41]
PeterL	trinque: yes, sarcasm flag operational, mostly	[16:41]
ascii_field	but what if - per last night's thread - you decided that you DON'T WANT TO REPRESENT STRINGS AS CONTIGUOUS BYTES ?	[16:42]
ascii_field	but rather, as cons cells?	[16:42]
ascii_field	where each character is stored in half of a word, with the other half being a pointer to the next char ?	[16:42]
PeterL	wouldn't that make strings take up twice as much memory?	[16:42]
ascii_field	suddenly you need a massive 'bureaucracy' to convert between the contiguous blobs your devices eat and shit, and your notion.	[16:42]
ascii_field	PeterL: see 'cdr coding' for why this does not have to be the case	[16:43]
ascii_field	i picked this example out of a tall hat with many others, to demonstrate the impedance mismatch between the lisp way of doing things and pc iron	[16:43]
ascii_field	and how it cannot be cleanly papered over in software.	[16:43]
ascii_field	AND this is a device for which we HAVE the specs !	[16:44]
ascii_field	for most pc iron - we do not...	[16:44]
ascii_field	and worse, ~think~ that we do.	[16:44]
ascii_field	!s intel me	[16:44]
assbot	21 results for 'intel me' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=intel+me	[16:45]
ascii_field	i am deliberately not even mentioning gpu, because it is possible to have a useful computer with no vga board (e.g., you can speak x11 over tcp)	[16:45]
ascii_field	but you do need the nic.	[16:45]
ascii_field	likewise, pc arch is braindamaged in 1,001 ways which are NOT realistically correctable, and certainly not in software	[16:46]
ascii_field	e.g., there is no powerfail interrupt	[16:47]
ascii_field	nor any built-in provision for battery-backed transactional ram	[16:47]
PeterL	so the only way to get a better operating system is to start with purpose built hardware?	[16:47]
ascii_field	yes.	[16:47]
ascii_field	i learned this the hard way.	[16:48]
ascii_field	and all questions of os aside, you will need to bake own silicon if you don't like running usg blobs.	[16:49]
ascii_field	(the odds are very good that your southbridge is running just one such as we speak.)	[16:49]
ascii_field	even if we ignore the profound braindamage of the x86 arch - instruction set, memory structure, clumsily retrofitted multiprocessor, etc. -	[16:51]
ascii_field	the basic fact is that no two x86 pc boxes can be relied upon to have the same iron	[16:53]
PeterL	If you hypothetically could make your own silicon, and "real computer", do you think it could ever displace the entrenched systems everybody is currently using?	[16:53]
ascii_field	so now you have to constantly chase the largely nonexistent docs for new southbridge, etc	[16:53]
ascii_field	PeterL: no likelier than bitcoin displacing usd	[16:54]
ascii_field	or 'mazerati' killing 'ford'.	[16:54]
ascii_field	and you can't somehow beat microshit and crapple by competing on an imaginary playing field	[16:55]
ascii_field	there is no playing field	[16:55]
PeterL	derpiest will continue running winblows	[16:55]
ascii_field	there is usg diktat and that's it.	[16:55]
ascii_field	it'd have to be a computer for 100 people.	[16:55]
trinque	PeterL: this assumes that the same group of derps will continue to exist forever	[16:55]
ascii_field	i do not know how to make a cpu for 100 people.	[16:56]
*	assbot removes voice from kakobreklaa	[16:56]
PeterL	lacks a certain "economy of scale"	[16:56]
trinque	sounds more like "will this superior military weapon ever supercede this other weaker weapon in terms of market penetration?"	[16:56]
trinque	well. yes, but not that way	[16:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19974 @ 0.00053447 = 10.6755 BTC [-]	[16:59]
PeterL	military weapons measure penetration by inches of steel, not percentages of market	[17:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00053447 = 3.5275 BTC [-] {2}	[17:01]
trinque	that was not the point.	[17:01]
trinque	if I have 10 nukes and you have 100 artillery in a fortress, and I nuke the fortress, does a nuke silo spring up in its midst?	[17:02]
trinque	quantity is not the only consideration, nor is everyone on the same side	[17:03]
PeterL	so "real computer" takes over when "winblows users" all die off?	[17:03]
trinque	takes over what? who cares if some poor guy still has an iPhone?	[17:06]
ascii_field	PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken	[17:07]
ascii_field	so you are reasoning with broken priors.	[17:07]
PeterL	trying to fit trinque's nuke-artillery metaphore onto computers, clearly failing	[17:08]
ascii_field	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3140985758772364@naggum.no.html << see also.	[17:08]
assbot	Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1GNEnfd )	[17:08]
ascii_field	in particular,	[17:09]
ascii_field	'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.'	[17:09]
ascii_field	microshit's very existence has deformed thought processes of a great many people.	[17:09]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[17:09]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:10]
PeterL	!up ascii_field	[17:10]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:10]
ascii_field	PeterL: one of the things to understand is that your computer is the way it is because the 'computing industry' consists of 1,001 people mutually sucking one another's cocks and profiting off the braindamage to every fella actually trying to get useful work done.	[17:12]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-10-2015#1308878 << see thread.	[17:12]
assbot	Logged on 27-10-2015 15:31:19; asciilifeform: this keeps in perfect fitting with the 'computing industry'-as-a-protection racket business model of the last 20+ yrs, where it 'solves' exclusively those problems which it, itself, creates.	[17:12]
PeterL	I'm off to get the kids from school, mostly I lurk by reading the logs	[17:14]
*	PeterL has quit (Quit: PeterL)	[17:15]
*	assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes	[17:17]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:17]
ben_vulpes	phf: where's a sane place from which to procure gpg-error? i've found some text files scattered about the web but nothing in the gpgme lang/cl dir	[17:17]
ben_vulpes	aha libgpg-error i guess, derp.	[17:18]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: the thing is shaky beyond belief	[17:18]
*	BashCo has quit ()	[17:20]
ascii_field	not entirely unrelatedly,	[17:20]
ascii_field	i have a puzzle for ben_vulpes, who is awake, and mircea_popescu, who might soon awaken, and the rest:	[17:20]
ascii_field	this being:	[17:20]
ascii_field	what is 'v' worth ?	[17:20]
*	ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages"	[17:21]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: when they ~are~ common lisp packages	[17:21]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: don't mind me, i'm just trying to learn the violin.	[17:21]
ascii_field	ffi turds stink	[17:21]
ascii_field	invariably.	[17:21]
ascii_field	the author of an ffi pkg has no control over what c turd is on your box	[17:22]
*	funkenstein_ (~bowler@192.3.24.235) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:25]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: any "v", your "v" or "v" in the abstract?	[17:31]
ascii_field	part II of puzzle for ben_vulpes and mircea_popescu - what was the continuity bridge worth ? - http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225544	[17:31]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 13:54:55; mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking.	[17:31]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: in the abstract.	[17:31]
ascii_field	or rather, the concept+the working mechanism (ver 99)	[17:32]
ben_vulpes	possibly unvaluable and invaluable	[17:33]
ascii_field	these aren't things.	[17:34]
ascii_field	'valueless' is a thing	[17:34]
ascii_field	'valuable' is a thing.	[17:34]
ben_vulpes	well, what is the value of bitcoin?	[17:34]
ascii_field	to whom?	[17:34]
*	ben_vulpes bows	[17:34]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[17:35]
ascii_field	it is very valuable to, e.g., mircea_popescu	[17:35]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[17:36]
ben_vulpes	are you then asking what the value of 'v' is to me, then?	[17:36]
ben_vulpes	then then then	[17:36]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: the thing i'm trying to figure out is whether i'm smarter than a chicken.	[17:37]
ascii_field	so far the evidence points to the negative	[17:37]
funkenstein_	what's the value of a bach partita?	[17:37]
ascii_field	funkenstein_: to his patrons, his ability to produce'em was valuable	[17:38]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: I don't follow. again, as though I were five?	[17:38]
ascii_field	in the genuine sense of 'paid for.'	[17:38]
punkman	loper machine needs patrons too	[17:38]
ben_vulpes	!t s.nsa	[17:38]
assbot	You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey.	[17:38]
ascii_field	punkman: and mars needs women	[17:38]
ben_vulpes	!t m s.nsa	[17:38]
assbot	The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.	[17:38]
ben_vulpes	!t m s.qntr	[17:39]
assbot	[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00022294 / 0.00023879 (7865 shares, 1.75 BTC)	[17:39]
funkenstein_	aha, proggys need patron model not box in store model	[17:40]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: do you understand why chicken in particular ?	[17:41]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:41]
ben_vulpes	!up ascii_field	[17:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:44]
ben_vulpes	not in the slightest.	[17:44]
ben_vulpes	in the sense of grown to be eaten?	[17:44]
ascii_field	in the sense that dumb bird lays eggs for free.	[17:45]
ben_vulpes	what the ever loving fuck is this mkerrorcodes.awk	[17:46]
ben_vulpes	well, "free". bird is fed.	[17:46]
ascii_field	aha. bird is smarter than ascii_field.	[17:46]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field is the proud owner of some equitytoiletpaper?	[17:47]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: specifically discussing other works.	[17:47]
ben_vulpes	right.	[17:47]
punkman	http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr03/31/16/enhanced-19864-1391203636-19.jpg	[17:48]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NSuEUq )	[17:48]
ascii_field	summary of what punkman thought of the other works ?	[17:48]
jurov	http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907 "if you are any kind of open-source leader or senior figure who is male, do not be alone with any female, ever, at a technical conference."	[17:50]
assbot	From kafkatrap to honeytrap ... ( http://bit.ly/1ktx7KJ )	[17:50]
ascii_field	jurov: its in the logz	[17:50]
ascii_field	whole thread	[17:50]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: chicken cannot learn from its mistakes.	[17:51]
trinque	ascii_field: this is why I spoke of military hardware; it's only valuable if it's a) used and b) the user wins something of value	[17:51]
ascii_field	required reading for context: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html	[17:51]
assbot	Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1OKBnPu )	[17:51]
punkman	ascii_field: summary of what punkman thought of the other works ? << not at all	[17:53]
*	ascii_field not trying to troll people, but wants to get some sort of big picture view	[17:53]
*	ascii_field has a very distinct feeling, prompted by last night's thread, that he is failing a kind of economic iq test	[17:54]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:54]
phf	ben_vulpes: libgpg-error, and share/common-lisp is installed with brew version, but	[17:55]
phf	gpgme bindings are broken, since they've not been updated since 2008 or so, i'm surprised they are in the source tree at all	[17:56]
ascii_field	^^	[17:56]
*	ascii_field distinctly recalls warning people about this a while back	[17:56]
ascii_field	gpg is ~extremely~ librarization-resistant, much like gcc.	[17:56]
phf	luckily for you today only you can get a new and improved PATCH from me that will at least let you create context, since i only finished it like last night, i don't yet know if it will actually encrypt, but it might	[17:56]
ben_vulpes	nifty, phf.	[17:57]
trinque	ascii_field: gotta invent the path which leads to the thing desired, not just the thing itself	[17:57]
trinque	there are plenty more knowledgable on this than myself, but this is why I ask periodically about smaller components of the thing, if such a thing exists at all	[17:57]
ascii_field	the most elementary component	[17:57]
ascii_field	is time.	[17:57]
ascii_field	my time.	[17:57]
ascii_field	there is not, it turns out, in many of these cases, any substitute for it.	[17:58]
trinque	that is certainly so	[17:58]
ben_vulpes	high performance individuals can hobble a team like this.	[17:58]
ascii_field	also there is no means of getting more than 24 hours of it per day.	[17:59]
ben_vulpes	"ah fuckit, get out of my way, i'll do it in a tenth the time and it'll be twice as good."	[17:59]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: we are speaking of cases where there isn't even an 'it' prior.	[17:59]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[18:00]
ben_vulpes	separate the doing of it from the thinking up of the it to do.	[18:00]
ascii_field	and at any rate, i'm not a 'high-performance' anything.	[18:00]
trinque	could very well be that the mechanism by which a central govt steals from a large population via fiat monetary systems got us the CPUs we use today far earlier than they'd have been had without the theft	[18:00]
ascii_field	trinque: even the hypothetical of 'without the theft' is rather like asking for 'without scurvy'	[18:01]
trinque	it means without bitcoin	[18:01]
ascii_field	at a certain stage of tech development, widespread scurvy is more or less certain	[18:02]
trinque	rather, before bitcoin this theft was possible	[18:02]
trinque	there was the thread about mathematics in the USSR which rings a bell here	[18:02]
ascii_field	multiple threads.	[18:02]
ascii_field	where i was trying to say more or less the same thing each time.	[18:03]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: what's more valuable: a honed and tidied 'v' implementation or several different implementations from wotmembers?	[18:03]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: i was speaking of neither	[18:03]
ben_vulpes	no i know. but i'm asking you another question of value.	[18:03]
trinque	sure, that market distortions happen doesn't mean they don't happen in a useful direction. it only means that other things will suffer greatly, that things are imbalanced.	[18:03]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: but of the system consisting of the invention plus the demonstration of its feasibility.	[18:03]
ascii_field	i.e. the thing i made.	[18:03]
trinque	ascii_field: it's simply this, that other than via magical thinking and zealotry, your thing will only happen when it costs less than someone is willing to pay to solve a problem he has	[18:04]
ascii_field	trinque: aha	[18:04]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: 'value of ideas'?	[18:04]
ascii_field	not of motherfucking 'ideas'	[18:04]
trinque	ascii_field: so you should go cause problems for people meantime!	[18:04]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: of the working item	[18:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7852 @ 0.00053447 = 4.1967 BTC [-] {2}	[18:05]
ascii_field	which the other implementations are using as a crib sheet	[18:05]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: or take the example of my trb patches.	[18:07]
*	Andrewjackson (~Andrew@f5.35.01a8.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:07]
ascii_field	(and the research that went into them)	[18:07]
ascii_field	this work had nothing to do with s.nsa product.	[18:08]
*	Andrewjackson_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[18:08]
ben_vulpes	while noble, i do not see much turkey-buying value in pogoquest.	[18:09]
ascii_field	how about trb as a whole ?	[18:09]
ascii_field	or the continuity bridge, from old thread linked earlier ?	[18:10]
ascii_field	or the removal of the 'orphan' blk and tx dos vectors ? etc	[18:10]
ben_vulpes	what is the value of a put on facebook expiring 5 years from now?	[18:11]
ascii_field	see, it is this 'noble' thing that i don't grasp	[18:11]
ascii_field	because so far what it appears to mean is 'that's nice, chicken, keep laying eggs, but go and look for food ~somewhere~'	[18:11]
trinque	do you benefit from a world where bitcoin functions or don't you?	[18:11]
trinque	it's not rhetorical, it's the question	[18:12]
ascii_field	i happen to think that i do.	[18:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12808 @ 0.0005402 = 6.9189 BTC [+] {2}	[18:12]
ascii_field	but i could be wrong.	[18:12]
trinque	this I think is the value in doing "world-building" work	[18:12]
ascii_field	and anyway nobody asked me whether it 'ought to exist'	[18:12]
ascii_field	it exists.	[18:12]
trinque	not that there's immediate pay; it's a long position	[18:12]
trinque	whether it exists theoretically is distinct from whether this run of the idea takes now or after the next dark age	[18:13]
ben_vulpes	so you've captured the value. bitcoin survives, and you benefit from its survival. so do other people, but when you advertise you also pay for people to learn about the solutionspace in general, including your competition.	[18:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24397 @ 0.00054354 = 13.2607 BTC [+] {2}	[18:13]
ben_vulpes	doesn't necessarily mean it's -ev to advertise, just that someone else is deriving value from your media buys as well.	[18:13]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:14]
ben_vulpes	there's an old thread around the shop: "ain't nobody motivated by money in the bank"	[18:14]
ben_vulpes	!up ascii_field	[18:14]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:14]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: that sentence is incomplete	[18:14]
ascii_field	add '... until rent is due'	[18:15]
ben_vulpes	go, complete.	[18:15]
ascii_field	completed.	[18:15]
ben_vulpes	but then the money's not in the bank anymore!	[18:15]
*	ascii_field changes gas mask canister	[18:15]
phf	hehe	[18:15]
ben_vulpes	dafuq do you breathe, anyways.	[18:16]
ascii_field	air.	[18:16]
trinque	ben_vulpes: at his next cartridge change, slip him one with something that knocks him out, and make sure that he wakes up at your hq	[18:16]
trinque	heh!	[18:16]
phf	i think v is pretty cool	[18:16]
ascii_field	phf: but, as i think has been well established, not money-cool.	[18:16]
ascii_field	ditto trb.	[18:17]
phf	i don't know what that means, money's not cool, it's barelly adequate at purchasing cool (a highly debatable point)	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field about the same that the us court system is worth.	[18:19]
ascii_field	money-cool means something that economically stands on its own	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	you can't sell it. if you keep it functioning well and in good shape, you can have an empire on the basis of it.	[18:19]
ascii_field	aha! mircea_popescu gets it.	[18:20]
phf	nobody's going to pay for v, but i thought that v is a dna level building block in a construction process of something that's beyond "money-cool", or bezzle cool as that's really what you're talking about ("rent is due")	[18:20]
ascii_field	nobody's ever paying for trb either. not even on lsd.	[18:21]
ascii_field	sunlight.	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	you're approximately in the position of a 20something woman who wants to be part of the cast of friends but doesn't have the rent.	[18:21]
*	ascii_field doesn't get the ref	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	you can't be in this cast if you can't make rent. and no, wondering "What my youthfull good looks are worth" does not work with that show	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	it's for a different show.	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	;;google Friends	[18:22]
gribble	Friends - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Friends (TV Series 1994–2004) - IMDb: ; The Original Friends Site:	[18:22]
ascii_field	they charged the actors money ?	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	not the show. the ACTUAL thing.	[18:22]
*	ascii_field reads the pediwik in search of 'actual thing'	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	"hip cool young people and the things they do"	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	"the in crowd"	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	etc.	[18:23]
ascii_field	anyway i'm safely not these, already.	[18:24]
*	Xuthus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	no, you're breaking the comparison.	[18:25]
ascii_field	how?	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	ok, lemme go into painful detail.	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	there was once a group of 20something chicks that lived in so and so apartments and did so and so deeds and things. their history became the controlling factor for an entire generation of english speakers, who went and got rachedo's and so on and so forth. part A of comparison.	[18:26]
*	ascii_field escaped knowing any of this, somehow	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	there is today a group of people that do so and so with encryption and bitcoins and etc. their history will be the controlling factor for an entire generation [of mostly chinese and russian speakers], who'll go about calling themselves the MP of cmpany X, because ceo is uncool now. this is part B of comparison.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	your notion that "oh, what is my participation in B's cool worth" is akin to the dumb polack chick in A going "what are my good looks worth, i can't make hollywood rent control"	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	nonsense.	[18:27]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu seems to think that i was looking for an answer other than the one i already derived.	[18:27]
ascii_field	i know full well that it is worth nothing.	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	you asked me. if you weren't looking for an answer, wh yask me ?	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	nothing is not the word.	[18:28]
ascii_field	wanted to see if anyone, incl. mircea_popescu, might find an error in my reasoning.	[18:28]
ascii_field	e.g., do i contribute something in particular, or is it fungible like the 'good looks of a 20yo cunt'	[18:29]
*	trinque marvels at both the output of this guy and his assessment of it	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	neither of these approaches is actually meaningful, you're just murking up the material.	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	http://www.shefinds.com/files/2011/01/Jennifer-Aniston-Rachel-Cut.jpg	[18:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1XTorMv )	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	sorta canine, i always thought.	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	anyway, to put the thing in more distant, and thus perhaps more comprehensible terms even if you'll likely not be able to resist the temptation to crush naisl with the microscope : "what is the value of rsa to kenyan ?" and "obviously all this 'crypto work' is general 20yo cunt good looks" to kenyan.	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	all this is rank nonsense.	[18:31]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317308 << As long as it is not inflamed and angry it should be fine	[18:32]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 19:02:01; mircea_popescu: this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen.	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	if i cared what kenyans value anything i might ask them. as it is, they don't even get a voice in blockchain size.	[18:32]
ascii_field	anyway i know very well that mircea_popescu runs a roman army, where you gotta bringe the horse, and the armour, and not a soviet army.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	soviet armies are evil.	[18:33]
*	ascii_field was not advocating the merits of soviet armies.	[18:34]
*	julmae has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	nothing, least of which me, keeps you from running your own hoisehold soviet army style or any other style.	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	but in the forum there's no place for anything else.	[18:34]
ascii_field	no argument	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	alrightythen!	[18:35]
ascii_field	i suppose i ought to cut to the chase:	[18:35]
ascii_field	my main project is cardano. which i would like to roll out before i get 'accidented', starve (which may happen quite soon), or exhaust the patience of my co-author or of the shareholders. and thus,	[18:36]
*	julmae (~kamak@s247.ip5.netikka.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:36]
ascii_field	from this point on i will have to ignore everything else, until rollout.	[18:36]
ascii_field	BUT if trb foundation really wants various things, it can make'em happen by... paying.	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	in other news, ima make myself some romanian style pickled cabbage!	[18:37]
ascii_field	neato	[18:37]
*	ben_vulpes has been waiting for this particular old tomato for some time	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	eh, relax wouldja. do what you can and let others do what they can and that's the whole story.	[18:38]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: that's really the lot of it	[18:38]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317424 << Like bitcoin I am going to have to value it as an Aleph, just dunno which one	[18:38]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:19:33; ascii_field: what is 'v' worth ?	[18:38]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: i posted all of this to add another 'can' to the list: services for pay. if anyone is interested in such.	[18:38]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1219/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jan-2016/#b12	[18:39]
mircea_popescu	what's foundation got, like 10 btc or so ?	[18:39]
ascii_field	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-November/000177.html	[18:40]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Treasury October 2015 statement ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdlXV4 )	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	iirc they were disinclined from getting servers even, for yet	[18:40]
ascii_field	13.82746102.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	neway. voluntary is voluntary. has its upsides an' its downsided.	[18:40]
ascii_field	aha.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	and as always is the case in life, if one doesn't manage to make one thing work, one'll sooner or later meet the same thing later on, with worse downside and less upside.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	after all, soviet armies even are a thing because the reason prefers to sleep, or how was that quote.	[18:41]
ascii_field	again, not trying to troll people, but fact of the matter is that i only got so much 'voluntary'. and gotta prioritize.	[18:42]
ascii_field	'cause if i starve, this cheats the shareholders.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	makes sense.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	i dun think anyone was really going "hey, alf is not doing enough works!" or anything ?	[18:42]
ascii_field	wouldn't surprise me	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	a part of your problems are in your own head, alfie.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	!s it's a job not a conviction	[18:44]
assbot	1 results for 'it's a job not a conviction' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=it%27s+a+job+not+a+conviction	[18:44]
phf	ascii_field: you're producing the most output by a margin of anyone here	[18:44]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	:D	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	assbot rules.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[18:45]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[18:45]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:45]
phf	kek	[18:45]
ascii_field	they're only in my head in the sense that i'm not clever enough to be 'stand on own' economically as described in mircea_popescu's article re: same.	[18:45]
ascii_field	gotta work, pretty much every day of the year.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	it'll come.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i appreciate the sentiment, i really do, it's pure love "oh im sorry i couldn't do more". fine, but don't let it consume you.	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	do what you can, when you can, you got a lifetime ahead o you.	[18:46]
ascii_field	pretty sure i got maybe a year or two	[18:46]
ascii_field	but aside.	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	a lifetime is not temporally specified.	[18:46]
ascii_field	aha!	[18:46]
ascii_field	anyway my objective wasn't to 'emo' people - recall, i have two bits of emotion register.	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	the objective emotion, in 28 days!	[18:48]
ascii_field	but to state 'various xxxxx is now available for a fee, unless at some point i get rich enough to afford the armour without having to pull own plow.'	[18:48]
ascii_field	and no, i don't expect any takers. and don't intend to 'emo' the non-takers	[18:49]
ascii_field	because i'm not (imho) retarded.	[18:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00054456 = 27.7453 BTC [+]	[18:49]
ascii_field	http://pastebin.com/DPLFCgps << meanwhile schmucks advertise 0days 'FOR RENT!!'	[18:50]
assbot	Exploit kit! RIG v4.0 i am make Service Regular Updates Rebu - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7sTGf )	[18:50]
ascii_field	wtf, how does this work.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	well... tghey get more rooted boxes.	[18:52]
ascii_field	but it never made any sense how one could evict a 'tenant' on one of these.	[18:52]
ascii_field	you'd end up playing 'core wars'	[18:53]
*	felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317314 << dollar is only in this discussion because trying to give a newfag dimension to it. otherwise, the transaction fees/limits are established byt miners.	[18:57]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 19:03:04; PeterL: mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do?	[18:57]
*	ascii_field sees 'newfag' for 1st time in engl.	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317323 << i think this is a drastic reduction that entirely misses the point. i'm generally careful not to discuss things i don't understand.	[18:59]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 19:21:12; phf: ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad"	[18:59]
ascii_field	^ i think he was referring in general to judgements on ~the possible~ based on ~the extant~	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	yeah well that never fucking worked.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	but the spots on my spleen were because we can't seem to pin this down for five minutes.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	keeps shapeshifting.	[19:00]
ascii_field	which this	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	actually, this is probably long overdue and a major public service. so i ordered teh gals bring cognac and i shall proceed	[19:01]
ascii_field	i'm seein' five or six thises	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	to ennumerate whatever the fuck we're even doing.	[19:01]
ascii_field	571st regiment of cat reports for catuty!	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	Thing 1. We're trying to reduce bitcoind to a form where it's actually worth cutting trees to print it ;	[19:02]
ascii_field	^ what asciilifeform wanted!!	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	Thing 2. We're trying to create an actually statically linked, weaponized bitcoind that's suitable for the pogo.	[19:02]
ascii_field	so he can write his.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	Thing 3. We're trying to re-create a software management system that's based on sanity (=crypto). this mostly exists gratia alf & mod6 efforts, and it's called v.	[19:03]
phf	mircea_popescu: i was referring to those instances where it's ascii fielding objections from assorted people, not necessarily debates between you two	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	Thing 4. We're trying to create a proper (=crypto) communication system ; as part of this gpg was cut up and we're still barfing at the results. this is a huge task and if thee end product is reasonably well understood, the design's still widely open.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	Thing 5. We're trying to create a sane os. This led to gentoo being cut open, libc being cut open, gcc being cut open, and we're still barfing at the results. I don't even want to think about it.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	Thing 6. We're trying to create a sane computer (other than pogo). Part of this consideration is some in-principle fundamental research work into ternary to be maybe attached to Thing 3.	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	Thing 7. We're trying to create a pr core, which is roughly in the spot Thing 4 was a year ago, ie, when artifex got somehow married to it.	[19:05]
ascii_field	!seen artifexd	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	other than that there's other things (ie, a bitcoin game etc etc) but i got those.	[19:05]
ascii_field	;;seen artifexd	[19:05]
gribble	artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	this about it ?	[19:06]
ascii_field	afaik	[19:06]
shinohai	Very succinct	[19:06]
*	kakobreklaa is now known as kakobrekla	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	yeah, succint like 82 life sentences to run concurrently.	[19:06]
*	kakobrekla has quit (Changing host)	[19:06]
*	kakobrekla (~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:06]
ascii_field	1-6 are actually subdirs on my hdd.	[19:07]
ascii_field	each.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	alright.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	and cardano is vaguely bolted into either 7 or 4. in fact the entire anthill got opened mostly through there.	[19:07]
ascii_field	aha.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	basically far from ascii_field getting paid, i think the thing here is, s.nsa should be hiring.	[19:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00054456 = 8.1684 BTC [+]	[19:08]
*	ascii_field falls down l0lling	[19:08]
*	ascii_field spins, like turtle	[19:09]
phf	we lost him	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	we pee on him to put him out ?	[19:09]
ascii_field	eh, me console is designed for this	[19:09]
*	ascii_field gets up	[19:09]
*	assbot gives voice to kakobrekla	[19:10]
ascii_field	kakobrekla no more finland ??	[19:10]
*	Luke-Jr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[19:10]
*	tris has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[19:10]
kakobrekla	finland is a fallback	[19:11]
ascii_field	ah	[19:11]
*	Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	anjyway. while this... project is epicly delayed and way the fuck over budget, i am not particularly worried .	[19:11]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: 'Finlandia, Finlandia, sinne taas matkalla oli Iivana.'	[19:12]
ascii_field	(mega-classic, http://lyricstranslate.com/en/njet-molotoff-no-molotov.html )	[19:12]
assbot	Njet Molotoff lyrics + English translation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7tKXo )	[19:12]
kakobrekla	lol	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	who is bobrikov	[19:14]
kakobrekla	some su dude sounds like.	[19:14]
ascii_field	viceroy in fi under late ru empire	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	o	[19:15]
ascii_field	plugged in 1904.	[19:15]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:15]
*	tris (tristan@2001:1868:a00a::4) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:16]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[19:16]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:16]
ascii_field	http://heninen.net/njet/index.html << ru ver. and link to (i think) original audio.	[19:17]
assbot	Нет, Молотов ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7tSGi )	[19:17]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: supposing for a moment that the notion was a serious one, who should we be hiring ?	[19:17]
ascii_field	(and with what)	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	with stock.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	adn who, i dunno.	[19:18]
ascii_field	and to what	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	take your pick of the items in there.	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	not like there's not work to do.	[19:19]
ascii_field	so far, other than pieces of #3, and the whole of #7, it's all things that sit still except when i push'em.	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	well we can't hire mod6 mostly because if we do the foundation ends.	[19:21]
ascii_field	(7 is black magic and i won't even come near it)	[19:21]
ascii_field	what does mod6 do for living anyway	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	same as you.	[19:22]
ascii_field	re?	[19:22]
ascii_field	hm	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	works in some mine.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	except he also raises some kids.	[19:22]
ascii_field	ah in that sense	[19:22]
ascii_field	aha this i recall	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	and hunts!	[19:22]
ascii_field	and prolly other interesting things.	[19:22]
thestringpuller	mod6: has kids?	[19:23]
thestringpuller	news to me	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	iirc he also judges new stripper in a six county area.	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	maybe phf, but the dude's not even bothered to collect the pile of mushrooms he earned doing i don't recall what for eulora	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	ah, mac porting was it.	[19:24]
*	Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[19:26]
jurov	qntra shares adistributed	[19:28]
jurov	!t m s.qntr	[19:28]
assbot	[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00022294 / 0.00023879 (7865 shares, 1.75 BTC)	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/1bdffa8b7d57686c09bd57ecf43c8b7b/tumblr_n98tvuC3m41r1ux1wo1_1280.jpg	[19:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ng3xjg )	[19:28]
BingoBoingo	Foodstamp culture: "I saw an episode of Bridezillas that she wanted to use EBT for her wedding cake. Except it was her friends card and it was not a store she was getting it from it was a lady baking out of her house and the baker lady was going to buy the stuff for the cake and like $700 in groceries as her 'payment'. They all got fines, the baker got shut down and the friend lost her ability to receive stamps and I think lost cu	[19:29]
BingoBoingo	stody of her kids to their dad because she had the kids on her case but because she was filmed letting her friend use the card they said she was neglecting to 'use state resources alloted for her kids' on her kids, so they opened a case against her and the judge let the kids say who they wanted to be with and it was dad. "	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	rape and microaggression.	[19:31]
BingoBoingo	srs	[19:31]
BingoBoingo	So pete still working on a PR setup? How does their compensation work? One share per tard tear?	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	i have nfi.	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	"with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain" << if the coolant bubbles you got serious problems. it's not supposed to do that.	[19:35]
ascii_field	mno	[19:36]
ascii_field	fluorinert boils	[19:36]
ascii_field	this was part of the design	[19:36]
ascii_field	(heat of phase change)	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	nuts	[19:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00054309 = 18.1392 BTC [-]	[19:36]
ascii_field	somewhere north of 50c	[19:36]
ascii_field	hence the bubbles	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	check it out, "two phase collant", it's a thing	[19:38]
ascii_field	aha	[19:38]
ascii_field	big bux	[19:38]
ascii_field	iirc recently somebody opened a btc mine under f.	[19:39]
ascii_field	(or claimed to, at any rate)	[19:39]
ascii_field	http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/350001/view << photo of c2	[19:40]
assbot	Cooling system of Cray 2 super-computer - Stock Image T450/0126 - Science Photo Library ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uKe5 )	[19:40]
ascii_field	http://www.0x07bell.net/WWWMASTER/CrayWWWStuff/Criscan/Cray2cascade.jpg << 'waterfall' in upper centre of photo	[19:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uPOJ )	[19:42]
ascii_field	operating.	[19:42]
ascii_field	from http://www.0x07bell.net/WWWMASTER/CrayWWWStuff/Cfaqp2.html which is pretty spiffy historical pile	[19:43]
assbot	Cray Faq Part 2: Tales from the crypto and other bar stories ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uOuh )	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317405 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317404 control. has "industry" "taken over" "farming" ? no, it has not, people still farm. except, people who farm (argentina) get to suck the cock of people who industry (romania). but otherwise, feudalism continues unimpeded both as a thing in itself in east asia and as a thing to look forward to, maybe one day	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	they develop it, in africa and venezuela etc. see also http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/#comment-114814	[19:43]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:06:20; ascii_field: PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken	[19:43]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:05:36; trinque: takes over what? who cares if some poor guy still has an iPhone?	[19:43]
assbot	Bitcoin and the poor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7uOKE )	[19:43]
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ascii_field	linked site claims that the last known cray2 was not thrown out until '99.	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317411 << this, ftr, is deeply wrong. pluralism does not suffer because "mass markets". it would benefit from them, if the [people who were supposed to be the] elite weren't fucktards.	[19:45]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:08:16; ascii_field: 'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.'	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	this is like saying "abundance makes lazy apes want to watch tv". guess what ? it doesn't have to! nobody forces you to misuse your freedom!	[19:45]
ascii_field	recall the meth thread ?	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	i do.	[19:46]
ascii_field	so then.	[19:46]
*	mike_c (~mike_c@unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	so then what ?	[19:46]
ascii_field	they could all be erdos	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	all that discussion was about the mass.	[19:46]
ascii_field	if they wanted	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	no, they couldn't.	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	not ALL. there is no all.	[19:46]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[19:46]
ascii_field	sure. then where did we get the retarded elite?	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	until and unless you come to terms with the simple fact that you're special, you'll be stuck trying to explain friends to me.	[19:46]
ascii_field	martians came and put them in?	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	i blame the parents.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	(not for maleducation. for poor sexual hygiene. fucking all the roadkill and such.)	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	lemme find this ad, maybe i manage.	[19:47]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:47]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[19:48]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:48]
ascii_field	don't have the thread handy, but at one point i explained how computing is tricky because its very existence as its current thing - that is, vlsi - is predicated on mass uptake	[19:48]
ascii_field	and how this is the root of the sux	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	was.	[19:49]
ascii_field	still is, until mircea_popescu or i figure out how to make 100 cpus.	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	well i can't find it. anyway, fucktarded outdoor thing in ba, "siempre se vuelve al primer amor" trying to sell italian classes. depicts an ugly chick in flats holding a huge red heart.	[19:50]
ascii_field	or even 1000.	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	that stupid bitch didn't look like something dogs would fuck	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	yet these idiots think she's someone's first love.	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	stop fucking all the ugly inept women. that's how you get stunted kids.	[19:50]
ascii_field	hey a sack of potatoes with a hole augered in is prolly somebody's 1st luv	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	not a matter of "someone".	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	a matter that the top male of 1015 (ie, STRONG) fucked hotties and had good children. whereas the top male of 2015 (ie, SMART) fucks horsefaces and is happy for it.	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	that's the martians that put the chlorotic non-elites on earth.	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	go for the hot ones like you own their mothers.	[19:52]
ascii_field	not enough war.	[19:52]
ascii_field	(how else do you resolve the problem of there being 1000 takers to each)	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field we can make 100 cpus TODAY, and on tech that didn't even exist in 1960.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	this is exactly how bitcoin mining got started.	[19:52]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: in all srsnes i'd like to know how.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	so no, the problem is not an absent "mass market". the problem is that there's work to be done for future uncertain benefit.	[19:53]
ascii_field	teach me how to make 100 cpus.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	umd will let you tack on 100 cpus to some prototype run they got, won't it ?	[19:54]
ascii_field	those ain't cpus	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	shut up.	[19:54]
ascii_field	they won't package or test or guarantee so much as 1 working unit.	[19:54]
ascii_field	and you can't package in a kitchen.	[19:54]
ascii_field	i tried.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	and no, i wont bother the bitfury guy, or anyone actually involved in doing things with this inept nonsense. for the same reason i shouldn't have queried ben_vulpes yest.	[19:54]
ascii_field	(tried how? you can buy bare dies)	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	entertaining anal child resistences is a bad plan.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	you know for a fact, incontrovertible and above your ability to contest, that you can do 100 cpus, and it doesn'rt even cost that much.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	moving on.	[19:55]
ascii_field	also we don't need z80 for anything.	[19:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.0005422 = 7.0757 BTC [-] {2}	[19:56]
*	Andrewjackson_ (~Andrew@35.06.01a8.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:56]
ascii_field	(show me where we can do a 486 or a dram of the time, for something like what the shared die folks charge.)	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	so i guess this can wait a few years then.	[19:57]
ascii_field	the base cost of doing any of it is only moving up.	[19:58]
ascii_field	esp. as the old 'secondhand' fabs fold.	[19:58]
ascii_field	recall the thread re: 'the middle dies' ?	[19:58]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=13-06-2015#1163457 << it	[19:58]
assbot	Logged on 13-06-2015 17:27:26; mircea_popescu: if you need anything that has to be made on something in the middle, make it now.	[19:58]
ascii_field	^ was actually about this fab	[19:59]
*	Andrewjackson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	looky, if we miss the window to civilisation we'll have missed the window to civilisation, that's all.	[20:01]
ascii_field	would still rather not, no?	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317412 << and mcdonalds' existence has kept alive a great many people that belonged dead. and all this has some ~statistical~ influences. it is not relevant on a case by case basis and it can't be an excuse for you.	[20:01]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:08:35; ascii_field: microshit's very existence has deformed thought processes of a great many people.	[20:01]
ascii_field	ftr it is my considered belief that if tmsr is sunk, it will be because it was unable to fab si.	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	i wouldn't, personally, give a rats ass either way. if yes, sure. if not, whatever, i have no problems riding a horse.	[20:02]
ascii_field	horse while enemy has gamma ray blaster.	[20:02]
ascii_field	in orbit.	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	eh nonsense.	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	i'm fucking "the enemy" ie some conclave of old fart's both daughters and occaisonally wife. always have.	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	i pointedly couldn't care less.	[20:03]
ascii_field	you might be fucking the wives of his dead skin cells	[20:04]
ascii_field	but i have nfi.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	i keep getting sucked into discussing science fiction movie scripts with this guy.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	i don't even like science fiction.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317425 << the one that went "this works [because nobody's ever used it, like you know, burning man before it got populat]" ?	[20:05]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:20:06; *: ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages"	[20:05]
ascii_field	the ones that don't reference items in the sea of c shit - work.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	for now.	[20:06]
ascii_field	for ever.	[20:06]
ascii_field	that's what ansi cl means.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	and once they become popular, they will BE the sea of lisp shit.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	c worked in the 70s just fine, also.	[20:06]
ascii_field	common lisp did not exist in the 70s	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	the problem here is keeping the herd out of computing, nothing else.	[20:07]
ascii_field	it was actually an answer to the tower of babel which prevailed then.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	and it continues to appear to work for as long as it fails to appear interesting.	[20:07]
ascii_field	a kind of 'trb cleanup' of its time	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	because it has no mechanisms of institutionalized opression of the median.	[20:07]
ascii_field	but yes, the machines were expensive and the room temp iq folks were kept out.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	right	[20:07]
ascii_field	on other side of locked doors.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	that accidental, happenstantial mechanism is crap.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	originally worked for unix, also.	[20:08]
*	ascii_field happens to agree	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	so now you know why you must go stand on own, with one go.	[20:08]
ascii_field	not exactly	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	of course not, god forbid.	[20:09]
ascii_field	what i meant was, what does it mean, 'with one go'	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	that in the same go, as you understand one, you understand the other. they being the exact same thing.	[20:11]
ascii_field	i don't see the connection	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes whty is the painter with ebola chick wearing high heeled platforms ?	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317481 << the thing that has haunted alf for years now.	[20:14]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:50:29; ascii_field: required reading for context: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html	[20:14]
ascii_field	aha.	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	same thing happens to me, i get various bits i end up keeping for a long time.	[20:14]
ascii_field	see also my observation about being dumber than a chicken.	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	1023 more of you , we could almost have a cpu.	[20:16]
ascii_field	aha.	[20:16]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[20:18]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[20:19]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[20:19]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: i don't think it is 'emo' to question my priorities when, after giving away my work to apparent applause for a year, i mention starving and audience suggests 'web dev'	[20:20]
ascii_field	audience collectively worth what, $1B ?	[20:20]
ascii_field	to me 'web dev' means 'work 17y.o. does' and is exactly equivalent to 'you are worth your weight in pork'	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	this is entirely besides the point. how you organise your own affairs is your own call. b-a is an equity play : you do things ; when and if they bring money in, you can have money ; when and if they bring chicks in, you can have chicks. that's how equity plays work : you get a claim to whatever future brings.	[20:21]
ascii_field	no argument	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	i understand that salaried work is both more common and more convenient, but i have personally no patience for salary types, and more importantly, there's no room in b-a for such, because it's not a fucking ewmpire, it's a republic,	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	and in the early revolutionary phases at that.	[20:22]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: wasn't speaking of 'salary types'	[20:22]
ascii_field	what did you pay that plumber in anyway	[20:23]
ascii_field	chocolate ?	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	which plumber ?	[20:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22216 @ 0.00054456 = 12.0979 BTC [+]	[20:23]
ascii_field	the fella with the angle grinder	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	im either doing too many things at once or whatever. who ? link ? what ?	[20:23]
ascii_field	the hand-held one	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	oh, i don't recall, 200 pesos for the labour or something it was	[20:24]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-10-2015#1298163	[20:24]
assbot	Logged on 13-10-2015 21:01:03; mircea_popescu: ok this is the most insane thing i ever saw. so plumber, looks like he escaped comicon or something, dorkiest dude ever. but THEN he proceeds to CUT THROUGH METAL PLATE FREEHAND	[20:24]
ascii_field	that one	[20:24]
ascii_field	just random example	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	right. ~200 pesos.	[20:24]
ascii_field	aha. fella did something that needed doing	[20:25]
ascii_field	does that make him 'salary type' ?	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	inasmuch as he doesn't get to put his name on the thing.	[20:25]
ascii_field	but i thought mircea_popescu didn't care for those	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	i don;t.	[20:25]
ascii_field	ought to have used a republic plumber	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	which is why if he came to have a chat with me i'd have the girls send him off.	[20:25]
ascii_field	who works for glory?	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	but i'm not fucking insane.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	nor do i hire plumbers to do the code nor do i hire usian kids to do my plumbing.	[20:26]
ascii_field	what am i missing here	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	you are stubbornly missing here that what you'd like the world to be does not matter one whit, and whatever way you dress that masturbation up doesn't change its masturbatory content.	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	it's either or, pick one or the other and enough with it already.	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	you don't want to do webwork, don't. do not expect any sort of actual pay.	[20:27]
ascii_field	this might be asking the mega-s33krit, but what kind of people ~does~ mircea_popescu use to, e.g., maintain mircea_popescucoin ?	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	you don't want to be in start-ups, don't. do not expect you get to open your mouth.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	either way, pick one live with it.	[20:27]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu is, i think, accustomed to smashing idiots' skulls and instinctively reaches for the designated hammer. but i'm not an idiot and don't expect things.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	most people live with a mix of the two, which is fine, pick a mix you like and stick to it.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	well so then!	[20:28]
*	ascii_field picked.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	so then what is teh problem!	[20:29]
ascii_field	none afaik.	[20:29]
ascii_field	but wanted to take a proper shit into the record	[20:29]
ascii_field	in case anyone is later confused.	[20:29]
*	mircea_popescu thumbsup	[20:29]
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ascii_field	mainly i gotta live out the oath that i swore.	[20:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054456 = 16.5546 BTC [+]	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317506 << this is almost a certainty.	[20:42]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 20:59:46; trinque: could very well be that the mechanism by which a central govt steals from a large population via fiat monetary systems got us the CPUs we use today far earlier than they'd have been had without the theft	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	the russians got steel plants faster with stalin then they'd have without.	[20:42]
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kakobrekla	doenst this apply to pretty much everything govt made	[20:45]
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kakobrekla	the bad and the ugly	[20:45]
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shinohai	!up Cristina	[20:47]
*	assbot gives voice to Cristina	[20:47]
shinohai	vez eso? lo puedo hacer porque ya he verifcado	[20:47]
Cristina	!up	[20:48]
Cristina	ya me deja jeje	[20:48]
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shinohai	The things I go through ...	[20:48]
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shinohai	If Cristina has done anything, she has proved to me that winblowze is never going to be the correct tool for anything related to gpg	[20:52]
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BingoBoingo	!up Cristina	[20:58]
*	assbot gives voice to Cristina	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	this wasn't terribly controversial shinohai. howdja meet her anyway.	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla yeah. baltimore'd have never had such good crime without govt.	[21:00]
Cristina	+BingoBoingo nice	[21:01]
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shinohai	mircea_popescu: met her trollin about ... found out about camwork, decided to ask her to look into your offer.	[21:01]
shinohai	jugs for all !	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:01]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all --currency eur	[21:04]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 356.5332, vol: 60091.75104089 \| BTC-E BTCEUR last: 363.39999, vol: 466.47868 \| CampBX BTCEUR last: 358.371, vol: 16.12998791 \| BTCChina BTCEUR last: 381.246816, vol: 86760.53440000 \| Kraken BTCEUR last: 355.13, vol: 19397.1056119 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 350.0, vol: 246.96771636 \| Volume-weighted last average: 369.220833122	[21:04]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[21:04]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 388.0, vol: 60074.75104089 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.23, vol: 33094.06971 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 387.1, vol: 157816.51835699 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 390.0, vol: 16.12998791 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.261816, vol: 86711.68480000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 380.0, vol: 193.92428549 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 380.94, vol: 246.96771636 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	i was like... wtf it moved 10% within two queries ?	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	that euro thing always throws me.	[21:05]
kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317791 < Tales from the crypto	[21:08]
kakobrekla	This section not available for public distribution.	[21:08]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 22:42:27; ascii_field: from http://www.0x07bell.net/WWWMASTER/CrayWWWStuff/Cfaqp2.html which is pretty spiffy historical pile	[21:08]
kakobrekla	how great.	[21:08]
shinohai	!s android 2fa vulnerabilities	[21:10]
assbot	0 results for 'android 2fa vulnerabilities' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=android+2fa+vulnerabilities	[21:10]
shinohai	o rly	[21:10]
mod6	<+ascii_field> what does mod6 do for living anyway << professional shit shoveler	[21:13]
mod6	<+thestringpuller> news to me << they're the gf's	[21:14]
mod6	had to find a new mine, place in tower of fascism was bought, outsourced all jobs to bangladesh or some place.	[21:15]
mod6	first day was last friday. so been a bit swamped since then.	[21:15]
shinohai	Thank you, come again!	[21:15]
mod6	exactly. lol	[21:15]
shinohai	^_______________^	[21:15]
BingoBoingo	State of Aztlan: https://www.thefix.com/content/crystal-meth-new-crack-cocaine "They stopped the bomb powder. We got our own weed, it's damn near legal out here. The only thing the Mexicans got to push is this and they pushing it hard."	[21:16]
assbot	Is Crystal Meth the New Crack Cocaine? \| The Fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1PqN404 )	[21:16]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> iirc he also judges new stripper in a six county area. << my speciality	[21:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00054152 = 7.1751 BTC [-]	[21:21]
mod6	i would like to help out with s.nsa. but yeah, right now foundation stuff is about all i can handle outside of mines. once I don't need the mines any longer, then I'll have some extra time perhaps.	[21:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3786 @ 0.0005386 = 2.0391 BTC [-]	[21:22]
shinohai	I got plenty of time but I'm not good at anything.	[21:22]
mod6	that's not true. you've been doing some awesome testing for me at the drop of a hat. a lot of this stuff just takes time to dig into it, etc.	[21:26]
mod6	and rome wasn't built in a day. or 5 years or whatever. takes time.	[21:27]
mod6	but believe me, there's nothing more than I want to do than work on this stuff all day. just not quite there yet.	[21:27]
*	assbot removes voice from Cristina	[21:29]
hanbot	ascii_field should you ever actually find yourself on the brink of starvation put whoever is doing your cooking in touch with me. i am well acquainted with forced frugality. it happens, and while your merits might not prevent it from grabbing at your feet, they can keep you from succumbing.	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	had to find a new mine, place in tower of fascism was bought, outsourced all jobs to bangladesh or some place. <<< seems alf's going through exactly the same.	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	i must confess buffett sold me on his "hay mas futuro por norteamerica" or whatever it was.	[21:34]
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BingoBoingo	Who knew sobriety was such big bsns, fuck AngloLandia is broken https://www.thefix.com/content/lifestyles-rich-and-sober-6588	[21:41]
assbot	Lifestyles of the Rich and Sober \| The Fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1PqPdZz )	[21:41]
BingoBoingo	"If the idea of entering a facility, even a luxury one, is too much to bear, you can always follow the lead of true ballers who detox in style at luxury suites at Claridge’s in London or Trump Tower in NYC to the tune of about $3,000 per night. For the roughly week-long experience, they’ll then hire an on-call doctor to administer a detox program and medication (an estimated $15,000 per week), a 24-hour nurse to facilitate it	[21:42]
BingoBoingo	(roughly $3,500 per week), and a round-the-clock sober companion to oversee the entire operation (approximately $10,000 per week). The final total for a week of the most luxurious stint of detox known to man? Around $50,000. Room service not included."	[21:42]
*	BingoBoingo needs to get a pet bear	[21:42]
mod6	mircea_popescu: yeah, they annouced the news of the acquisition on the 2nd of october, had a new deal closed by the 17th. was glad to find something new anyway, was really tired of working at the old place.	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	good for you then	[21:44]
mod6	certainly was a good thing to get back to work so quick.	[21:45]
mod6	got more vacation days and a raise.	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	what do you do there, sysadmin like ?	[21:47]
mod6	software development - mostly java stuff.	[21:47]
*	mod6 ducks	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	well at least it';s not webdev right ?	[21:48]
mod6	exactly.	[21:48]
mod6	no, this role I'm workin on a data access layer.	[21:48]
mod6	buncha hibrernate bullshit	[21:48]
mod6	but I don't work in these mines for the thrill of victory, i do it for the cash.	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[21:49]
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mod6	I pretty much keep my head down, work hard. I don't get emotionally invested in the mines.	[21:49]
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mod6	when I was younger I used to be a lot more idealistic about my job... now, couldn't care less as long as the money is wired on a regular basis. haha.	[21:50]
mod6	bitcoin is the thing i care about.	[21:51]
mod6	i put up with all that bullshit all day every day so I can keep the lights on and do my real job: the foundation :]	[21:51]
trinque	I'm not much concerned with dignity at the end of the world.	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	just as long as the world ends, eh.	[21:52]
trinque	yes sir	[21:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12814 @ 0.0005386 = 6.9016 BTC [-]	[21:53]
mod6	well, to some extent for me I have to be able to be honest and have integrity in my job or I wouldn't respect myself in the morning.	[21:53]
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trinque	mod6: I mean fretting about doing java, webdev, or pole dancing	[21:53]
mod6	nod	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	pole dancing is actually great for you.	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	almost as good as walking.	[21:53]
mod6	I'm just sayin, some guys are cool with being fucking scammers. Not me.	[21:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28686 @ 0.00053738 = 15.4153 BTC [-] {2}	[21:54]
mod6	Yup, nothin wrong with shakin' it for cash. That's honest.	[21:54]
mod6	Ripping people off for vaporware or whatever other bullshit isn't.	[21:54]
mod6	I guess, another factor for me is doing manual labor. I used to cut down trees from when I was about 10 to 18. And very quickly in a job like that you learn the value of the earned dollar.	[21:55]
mod6	So, I'd hate to do webdevelopment or whatever, but it sure beats humping logs all day.	[21:56]
mircea_popescu	a lumberjack ?!	[21:56]
trinque	deedbot-'s blockchain has caught up thanks to mircea_popescu's node	[21:56]
mod6	And sure, I liked cutting down trees, good exercise, decent guys to work with, but fuck, that shit wears on you.	[21:56]
mod6	Yep. My good buddy's dad has a tree care company. My old man set me up with a job working with them when I was like 10, big enough to haul sticks and roll logs.	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	"i cut down trees, i wear high heels" now resounding in mp residence	[21:58]
mod6	haha	[21:58]
mod6	Only thing I really regret about it is not wearing ear protection back then.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	srsly.	[21:59]
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mod6	When I wasn't cutting down trees, I would blow up an air matress and float down this creek that ran through a private golf course. Where I would fish the golf balls out of the creek, shine 'em up and sell 'em back to the guys who just hit 'em in there for like $0.25 per ball.	[22:01]
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mod6	always was a way to make money.	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	not bad.	[22:02]
mod6	probably gave that up when I was about 13 though.	[22:02]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	at some point at that age i used to go trouting in this stream. the trout likes to sit under the rock sort-of mid evening, you can catch it with your hands just loop either end in.	[22:03]
mod6	yeah! never had to ask my folks for a nickle after I was 10.	[22:03]
mod6	ah! cool.	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	very much like picking up women, actually.	[22:04]
mod6	wrangle 'em up :]	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	always suspected the trout doesn't actually mind being caught.	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	only starts squirming once out of the water.	[22:05]
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mod6	!up ascii_field	[22:06]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[22:06]
BingoBoingo	Around here similar hand fishing arts exist, but usually they focus on the catfish Basically get it to swallow your hand and try to grab the gill plates as you pull your hand up	[22:06]
mod6	they're called "noodlers" right BingoBoingo?	[22:06]
BingoBoingo	yes	[22:06]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-11-2015#1318008 << 90+% rent	[22:07]
assbot	Logged on 06-11-2015 00:31:57; hanbot: ascii_field should you ever actually find yourself on the brink of starvation put whoever is doing your cooking in touch with me. i am well acquainted with forced frugality. it happens, and while your merits might not prevent it from grabbing at your feet, they can keep you from succumbing.	[22:07]
mircea_popescu	in other news, johnny cash is fucking great.	[22:07]
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mod6	very much so. only framed picture I've got is of Johnny Cash.	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	aged splendidly too. im not even sure if his best work isn't his last album	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	how many bands can say this ?	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	sure, say aerosmith has the same longevity. but gimme a break with the bubblepop crap they been doing for mtv this side of the mllenium.	[22:09]
mod6	yah, usually it's a big early career, and then a slow decline. he just kept making great, if not even better, music.	[22:09]
deedbot-	[Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Good Afternoon ISIS - http://www.contravex.com/2015/11/05/good-afternoon-isis/	[22:09]
mod6	yeah. steven tyler did not age well. i saw a picture of him and he looks like a chinese woman	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	i think he always was a chinese woman.	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	he certainly did enough dope for one.	[22:10]
mod6	speaking of which, Axl Rose looks really bad too. haha	[22:10]
mod6	"Welcome to the bakery, we've got cakes and pies..."	[22:10]
mircea_popescu	http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2014/12/04/10/Axl-Rose-Getty.jpg kinda trucker like.	[22:11]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PqS0SI )	[22:11]
mike_c	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317621	[22:12]
assbot	Logged on 05-11-2015 21:35:29; ascii_field: from this point on i will have to ignore everything else, until rollout.	[22:12]
mike_c	Amen!!	[22:12]
mod6	mircea_popescu: haha	[22:12]
mike_c	let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already	[22:12]
mod6	sounds good to me.	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	not a bad plan.	[22:13]
*	ascii_field (~asciilife@pool-108-31-64-194.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:14]
jurov	ascii_field: electrum-server depends on bitcoin having "txindex" which 0.5.4 not sure if has, 0.7 had and the el. patch was not heavy	[22:14]
jurov	no patch needed since 0.8	[22:15]
mod6	!up ascii_field	[22:15]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[22:15]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-11-2015#1318009 << wrong guess	[22:15]
assbot	Logged on 06-11-2015 00:32:40; mircea_popescu: had to find a new mine, place in tower of fascism was bought, outsourced all jobs to bangladesh or some place. <<< seems alf's going through exactly the same.	[22:15]
ascii_field	was 'startup'	[22:16]
ascii_field	with hardware.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	ah ok.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	you really shouldn't stack the same play. if the wife's a lascivious blonde don't get ANOTHER one for a mistress. get a spirtous brunette sarah silverman sorta chick.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	etc.	[22:17]
ascii_field	wot went, so no choice	[22:17]
ascii_field	only other option was- usg	[22:18]
ascii_field	bbl	[22:18]
*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	"But if Echo was no longer a projection, she was still a reflection. Echo, like all women, offered her man a peek inside his soul, all he had to do look: What kind of a man am I, that attracts this kind of woman? What kind of a man am I that attracts the kind of woman who only likes me for how I look? Despite how I treat her? What kind of a man am I that only attracts the kind of women who like me for X? Is it b	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	ecause there is nothing else of value inside me except X? But he was never taught to ask questions like this. In fact, he was taught never to ask questions like that. What kind of a man attracts a woman who can only echo him? There must be a name for that kind of person, and he already had it."	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	lol, tlp trying to be feminist by making men as dumb as women.	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	orly, neurosis is the answer ? i had no idea anyone even asked the question!	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	How do you make a child know himself? You surround him with mirrors. "This is what everyone else sees when you do what you do. This is who everyone thinks you are." <<< mno, that's how you make a child become a girl.	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	"Lesson one at the academia should be the importance of separating vocation from avocation, as character actor Fred Thompson and electrical contractor Benjamin Franklin both understood."	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	"When we see a welfare mom we assume she can't find work, but when we see a hipster we become infuriated because we assume he doesn't want to work but could easily do so-- on account of the fact that he can speak well-- that he went to college. But now suddenly we're all shocked: to the economy, the English grad is just as superfluous as the disenfranchised welfare mom in the hood-- the college education is just as ir	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	relevant as the skin color. Not irrelevant for now, not irrelevant "until the economy improves"-- irrelevant forever. The economy doesn't care about intelligence, at all, it doesn't care what you know, merely what you can produce for it. The only thing the English grad is "qualified" for in this economy is the very things s/he is already doing: coffeehouse agitator, Trader Joe's associate, Apple customer ............	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	...................................... and spouse of a capitalist.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	Of course I'm not happy about this, I like smart people, but that's the new reality. There was a time where women went to college to get an MRS degree, and I am telling you that that time is today, there is nothing else of value in there. Sure, some college women go on to become doctors and CEOs, and some go on to become child pornographers and Salon writers, none of those things have anything to do with what happene	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	d in college. If you are going to college to get an education and not to meet guys, you are insane, literally insane, delusional, in reality one is never going to happen and the other is going to happen anyway, and you could have gotten both for free at a bookstore. Worked for me. The only question for the future single mom is whether it's worth $XXXXXX a year to meet guys, and the answer is of course it's not, even	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	nightclubs let ladies in for free."	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	win.	[22:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50214 @ 0.00053536 = 26.8826 BTC [-]	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	aaannd... "if we had a system of healthcare in which doctors were paid the exact same regardless of diagnosis or severity, then there'd be little attention paid to "correct" diagnosis, all of our epidemiological data would be totally invalid, and the number one drug in America would be Xanax. "Wait, isn't that the situation now?" Huh, nailed it."	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	"why is all us epidemiological data null and void ?" "because us doctors a) have to write down a diagnosis and b) are paid the same no matter what is is".	[23:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10007 @ 0.00053447 = 5.3484 BTC [-]	[23:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38643 @ 0.00053447 = 20.6535 BTC [-]	[23:32]