Forum logs for 05 Nov 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
trinque I am commenting on the idiocy of a thing *ever* taking it upon itself to erase the history of its own operation [00:00]
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asciilifeform trinque: you don't ever flush your toilet ? [00:00]
trinque when it is sitting on a system where the user can decide to do this if he chooses [00:00]
trinque no, but my shits do not flush the toilet for themselves.... [00:01]
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asciilifeform there is no human user on, e.g., pogo. [00:01]
asciilifeform it is poured into cement. [00:01]
asciilifeform in orbit [00:01]
asciilifeform yet it still makes sense to have a small 'crash recorder' sort of log, for when it shits itself. [00:02]
asciilifeform how do you propose to do this ? [00:02]
asciilifeform unrelatedly, [00:02]
asciilifeform but this is pure gold, [00:02]
asciilifeform esp for mircea_popescu: [00:02]
asciilifeform #ifdef M_GUARD [00:02]
asciilifeform if( a ) { [00:02]
asciilifeform #error "--enable-m-guard does not currently work" [00:02]
asciilifeform ^^^^^^^^^ guess from where ^^^^^^^^^ [00:02]
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asciilifeform trinque: you do know that aircraft crash boxes traditionally ran the tape in a loop, right ? [00:04]
asciilifeform because guess what, finite tape fits in box. [00:04]
asciilifeform and it was not deemed acceptable for the box to ever not be recording. [00:05]
trinque this log file is a small fraction of the size of the blockchain which is also constantly being written [00:05]
asciilifeform no [00:05]
asciilifeform think about it [00:05]
asciilifeform a) a wedged node still pisses into the log b) log contains tx ids, many of which correspond to nothing that ends up in the blocks [00:06]
trinque I was thinking of a lower log level than whatever I'd expect from "debug" but in that case yes [00:06]
asciilifeform i have machines here where the size of the log approaches the size of the blockchain. [00:06]
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trinque asciilifeform: why not have the thing barf everything to stdout and stderr and let whatever's out there do with it what it pleases; opposed to unix-y small proggies that do one thing here? [00:16]
phf mod6: you might be right not wanting to `use`. i decided to look at file::temp to see how they do ffi, but instead it's a custom perl written blob. probably reasonable to use, but.. in any case i recommend at least conforming to the api of mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXX") => /tmp/fooAj5. i took a stab at a sample code,, but there are some other things to keep in mind, [00:17]
phf e.g. (particularly if you read the paragraph under HIGH) [00:17]
assbot ... ( ) [00:17]
asciilifeform trinque: and when it runs daemonized ? [00:17]
trinque runit runs things in precisely this manner, and is the smallest init guy I know [00:18]
asciilifeform see, the whole 'unix philosophy' thing would be considerably more interesting if we had a machine where it actually... worked. [00:18]
asciilifeform trinque: i don't even know how big it is, but will tell you that it is too big for pogo. [00:18]
trinque .... [00:18]
asciilifeform because ANYTHING is too big [00:18]
trinque there will be no init? [00:18]
asciilifeform prolly not. [00:19]
asciilifeform (why waste the precious ram on that ??) [00:19]
trinque one sec while I go find the ram usage of runit on a similar device [00:19]
asciilifeform if it's 8kb that's too much. [00:19]
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asciilifeform my argument here is not that the behaviour of the classic debug log is a beautiful thing, but that any change to bitcoin that MAKES MANDATORY the presence of so much as an 8kB proggy on the machine, is LETHAL [00:22]
asciilifeform to pogo. [00:22]
phf should there even be logs on pogo? [00:23]
asciilifeform phf: log in the airplane 'black box' sense only. [00:23]
asciilifeform if that. [00:23]
asciilifeform moreover, since unix has no future, but unfortunately we are stuck with a junkyard of rusting x86 and arm boxes, it makes sense for bitcoin to evolve in the direction of being an os [00:23]
trinque bout two orders of magnitude north of that [00:23]
phf in that case you'd better truncate it doing run too, because if that pogo doesn't go down, there's no cap on the log [00:24]
asciilifeform but it does NOT make sense for it to evolve in the direction of being 'a good unix util' [00:24]
trinque this makes sense [00:25]
asciilifeform ... not that the thing is in any way close to being pogoizable [00:26]
mircea_popescu !up woivis [00:26]
-assbot- You voiced woivis for 30 minutes. [00:26]
* assbot gives voice to woivis [00:26]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [00:27]
gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 445.21, Best ask: 445.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 445.2, 24 hour volume: 285121.27754096, 24 hour low: 366.66, 24 hour high: 504.0, 24 hour vwap: None [00:27]
asciilifeform and it won't be a matter of a few changed lines, either. [00:27]
mircea_popescu this is better than daytime dramaz [00:27]
woivis thank you mircea [00:27]
mircea_popescu aha. who're you ? [00:27]
trinque init on the same device is taking about 300kb more than runit, as on this thing I have the former starting the latter [00:27]
asciilifeform trinque: neither really belongs there. [00:28]
asciilifeform in fact, a battlefield bitcoinatron has no business having a conventional 'userland' at all. [00:28]
mircea_popescu << we applaud this notion. [00:28]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 02:46:35; mod6: i dont wanna "use" anything if it can be helped. [00:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: then you will love the current thread... [00:28]
* asciilifeform brb, food [00:29]
* mircea_popescu getting there [00:29]
* trinque is curiously googling what init=bitcoind would take [00:29]
mircea_popescu << the principle of this is sound. if you're debugging on pogo you've got more pressing problems than the log. such as your psychotherapy appointment. [00:30]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 02:54:26; asciilifeform: on a machine like pogo it does not make sense to produce the log at all [00:30]
mircea_popescu << lol zing. [00:31]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 03:00:13; trinque: no, but my shits do not flush the toilet for themselves.... [00:31]
mircea_popescu << heh. [00:31]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 03:01:40; asciilifeform: #error "--enable-m-guard does not currently work" [00:31]
mircea_popescu actually the rotating tape is not such a bad idea. not just for pogo-log, but in general. wild notion, but, asciilifeform how about memory allocator that simply overwrites the beginning ? [00:33]
phf system message buffer operates that way (i.e. what you get with dmesg) [00:34]
mircea_popescu << i have no idea why reasonable to use. [00:34]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 03:16:02; phf: mod6: you might be right not wanting to `use`. i decided to look at file::temp to see how they do ffi, but instead it's a custom perl written blob. probably reasonable to use, but.. in any case i recommend at least conforming to the api of mkdtemp("/tmp/fooXXX") => /tmp/fooAj5. i took a stab at a sample code,, but there are some other things to keep in mind, [00:34]
mircea_popescu phf so it does. [00:34]
mircea_popescu and for this same exact reason, as alf would say, "cement". [00:35]
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trinque I suppose given you can fire up networking entirely from within the linux kernel, init=bitcoind may be all that is needed at some point [00:35]
phf mircea_popescu: i honestly thought it was a thin wrapper around call to unix mkdtemp, glad i checked [00:35]
mircea_popescu trinque the eventual end goal is to have bitcoinix. as alf says, no userland at all. nor really a kernel in the common sense. [00:35]
mircea_popescu kinda have a) a nix ; b) a bitcoin and c) an obvious pogo-merge for these two. [00:36]
phf apropos this conversation, emacs as init, prototyped using "user-mode-linux", something that could be used for bitcoind [00:38]
assbot Page Not Found ... ( ) [00:38]
assbot The User-mode Linux Kernel Home Page ... ( ) [00:38]
mircea_popescu back to tape : not to mention that since these these things are virtualized, you could in principle specify how you wish the available mem to be split among the various rotating tapes. [00:38]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: an allocator that knows that it is acceptable to lose some old bits is called a circular buffer and behaves like a looped tape, yes [00:51]
asciilifeform e.g., your nic's buffers [00:51]
asciilifeform everything on your box that can safely behave this way, pretty much already does. [00:51]
mircea_popescu why not mempool ? [00:51]
asciilifeform mempool is a great example [00:51]
asciilifeform of a mechanism which ought to work this way [00:51]
mircea_popescu but not implemented thus currently. [00:51]
asciilifeform (see old threads where we beat this to a liquid pulp) [00:52]
mircea_popescu apparently not liquid enough. "liquifying - works ; drinking - not yet." [00:52]
asciilifeform ^ aha. [00:53]
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trinque asciilifeform: thinking the kernel's automount mech. for pogo's external disk slot? [00:57]
asciilifeform mount at warmup. [00:58]
asciilifeform why ever any time else? [00:58]
* trinque nods [01:00]
* assbot gives voice to liquidassets [01:01]
mircea_popescu so the fucking web idiots have come up with a novel css hell that chokes my browsers. [01:02]
mircea_popescu what the fuck these fucking idiots and theyr css. should be hanged. [01:02]
asciilifeform this happens regularly enough. [01:02]
mircea_popescu your "formatting" does not work inline, go die in a fire. [01:02]
liquidassets << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no? [01:02]
assbot Logged on 04-11-2015 18:50:13; *: asciilifeform would like input from his WoT re: what is the correct thing to do with obvious usg honeytrapping as described earlier. [01:02]
trinque whole thing is a massive sin [01:02]
mircea_popescu it has its merits liquidassets [01:03]
liquidassets “only the Übermensch will have the strength to fully accept all of his past life, including his failures and misdeeds, and to truly will their eternal return” grepped straight from the logz [01:03]
liquidassets anytime you're opened up to liability, the one who documents best seems to win [01:05]
BingoBoingo ... << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no? << Yes, like that time I blogged the FBI visit to my front door [01:06]
BingoBoingo For honeydicking, I am less certain the proper course of action [01:06]
mircea_popescu pics help. [01:11]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 7.47500000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - [01:11]
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liquidassets Exactly BingoBoingo except I still have to go back and read more to get the full context [01:15]
liquidassets honeydicking < [01:17]
mircea_popescu 4:1 on trump ? cmon. [01:18]
mircea_popescu who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ? [01:18]
asciilifeform wat about the chick [01:19]
mircea_popescu who ? [01:19]
mircea_popescu the republicans also have chicks now ? [01:19]
asciilifeform the one that killed hp [01:19]
trinque yeah, old CEO of HP [01:19]
mircea_popescu ahahahaah right [01:19]
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trinque bragged about HP's role helping the NSA under her watch, too [01:20]
mircea_popescu i wasn't even aware she's still ruinning [01:20]
BingoBoingo who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ? << Doctor Stoner is actually leading now. Rubio appears to be the establishment alternative now that Jeb is dead in the water [01:20]
BingoBoingo NEarly all the repubes are still ruining [01:20]
mircea_popescu never in history has a nobody been elected before [01:20]
mircea_popescu o wait... obama. nm. [01:20]
asciilifeform l0l aha [01:20]
mircea_popescu i would imagine the republicans understand enough of their small penis issues to not imagine they can pull democrat tricks. [01:21]
BingoBoingo Obama, Clinton, Truman... [01:21]
trinque Trump and Carson practically fist-bumped on stage in that CNBC "debate"; I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up running together [01:21]
mircea_popescu clinton was well known [01:21]
mircea_popescu "that guy with the hot wife" [01:21]
BingoBoingo Not Bill [01:21]
BingoBoingo George Clinton was well known at the time though [01:22]
mircea_popescu let's limit this discussion to "after tv" [01:22]
BingoBoingo ;;google george clinton [01:22]
gribble George Clinton Parliament Funkadelic official website: ; George Clinton (musician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic - Facebook: [01:23]
BingoBoingo ^ That CLinton was well known [01:23]
mircea_popescu lmao [01:23]
BingoBoingo But seriously none of the republicans are going to stop before the first primaries because they gotta build their profile in public to become TV hosts [01:24]
BingoBoingo It's the way of their people [01:24]
BingoBoingo Democrats on the other hand quit well in advance because getting appointed to various offices is the way of their people [01:25]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts [01:25]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts << Too late BitBet exists [01:26]
asciilifeform hey it mostly dropped sport crud [01:29]
BingoBoingo Sure, this may too fade [01:30]
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BingoBoingo !up woivis [01:32]
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trinque perhaps asciilifeform is waiting for "The USG scam wont see 2019" [01:33]
BingoBoingo Mebbe [01:34]
asciilifeform i don't personally expect to see 2019. [01:42]
asciilifeform so no, won't bet. [01:42]
BingoBoingo These years creep up on people [01:45]
asciilifeform in other 'news', malloc is very very complicated. [01:46]
BingoBoingo fuck yeah [01:46]
asciilifeform considerably more so than, e.g., knuth's, garbage collector. [01:47]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu finally dug up the sysv6-on-x86 thing. [01:50]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:50]
assbot Embedded in Academia : Xv6 ... ( ) [01:50]
asciilifeform turned it up ~by accident~ while looking for entirely unrelated thing. [01:50]
asciilifeform 'Xv6 is a rewrite of v6 UNIX in modern C that runs on multicore x86 chips. It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU. It took me a while to see the genius of Xv6, which is that it is simpler than I would have thought a working multicore OS with shell and filesystem could be. For example, it lacks wait queues and ready queues — in Xv6, both wakeup and scheduling are accomplished by looping over the [01:51]
asciilifeform all-process table. Similarly, there’s no malloc() in the kernel, but rather just a page allocator. The pipe implementation copies one byte at a time. Amazingly, even the bootloader is a pleasure to read. Another nice thing about Xv6 is that it comes with a short textbook that explains OS concepts in terms of their implementations in Xv6.' [01:51]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:51]
asciilifeform ^ the animal in the lions book, rewritten for x86. [01:55]
asciilifeform robert morris of all people. [01:56]
asciilifeform i thought he was dead... [01:56]
BingoBoingo Shit, Unix lives again [01:58]
asciilifeform if that's living. [01:58]
asciilifeform << for those who must read in www browser.. [01:59]
assbot ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( ) [01:59]
asciilifeform << example of why lions book was a thing [02:00]
assbot xv6/kill.c at master · ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( ) [02:00]
asciilifeform [02:00]
assbot xv6/grep.c at master · ahorn/xv6 · GitHub ... ( ) [02:00]
asciilifeform ^ ~100 lines. [02:00]
asciilifeform 'cat' is 38 lines. [02:01]
asciilifeform isn't it a marvel, what these looked like before the cancer ? [02:01]
asciilifeform i wonder if anybody's ported fabrice bellard's tinycc compiler to this. [02:02]
asciilifeform because then it's a complete and almost usable os. [02:02]
asciilifeform which could handily compile itself in a few mSec on boot. [02:02]
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asciilifeform adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though. [02:04]
asciilifeform ditto drivers for any kind of actual iron beyond the interrupt controller and bare bones ata [02:05]
asciilifeform interestingly, multiprocessor is supported. [02:06]
asciilifeform reading this thing i - astonishingly - don't feel like i'm chewing on gravel [02:07]
BingoBoingo LIVING [02:07]
asciilifeform which is what reading, e.g., linux kernel, or gpg, feels like [02:07]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency eur [02:13]
gribble Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 380.387742, vol: 105198.11150770 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 385.119, vol: 828.06894 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 422.675, vol: 122629.81590000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 379.0, vol: 36666.8323811 | Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 377.0, vol: 744.07905649 | Volume-weighted last average: 399.691877425 [02:13]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [02:13]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.42, vol: 105197.42750770 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 404.829, vol: 59697.13119 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 414.81, vol: 276471.40389639 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 15.52203902 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 459.404, vol: 122609.60230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 409.45669, vol: 439.20838303 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 409.7613, vol: 744.07905649 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [02:14]
BingoBoingo ;;more [02:14]
gribble average: 423.160688002 [02:14]
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BingoBoingo [02:30]
assbot US Navy Poised To Order New Boeing Fighters, F/A-18 Super Hornet Jets Could Be Ordered Soon ... ( ) [02:30]
mircea_popescu " It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU." o.O [02:38]
mircea_popescu you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ? [02:38]
mircea_popescu adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though << the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage. [02:40]
mircea_popescu "could be ordered soon" wtf news is this [02:41]
asciilifeform << add a network stack, nic driver, disk caching (without which no real time bitcoin), then the unspeakable horror of even the smallest known incarnation of libc... [02:51]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 05:37:58; mircea_popescu: you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ? [02:51]
asciilifeform and you get linux. [02:51]
mircea_popescu why do you need libc again ? [02:51]
asciilifeform to build bitcoin ? [02:51]
mircea_popescu network stack could actually be purpose built. [02:51]
mircea_popescu mno. [02:51]
asciilifeform the smallest known tcp stack is that swedish one [02:52]
asciilifeform and it's still a mega-turd [02:52]
mircea_popescu not what im saying. [02:52]
asciilifeform hm? [02:52]
mircea_popescu purpose built. it does bitcoin and nothing else. [02:52]
asciilifeform bitcoin as presently existing rides on top of tcp. [02:53]
mircea_popescu fuck that. [02:53]
mircea_popescu it rides on top of qt and bdb, too. [02:53]
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asciilifeform let's rephrase, it relies on the pipe abstraction [02:53]
mircea_popescu and on the boost "abstraction" [02:53]
asciilifeform ('can throw bytes from point a to point b and back and they get there in order') [02:53]
mircea_popescu these aren't abstractions as much as they are infections. [02:54]
asciilifeform anyway i'll be the last to cry for tcp. [02:54]
mircea_popescu seems this v6 thing would be a great starting point for a great many things. [02:55]
mircea_popescu encrypted conn for one. [02:55]
asciilifeform thing is, it only looks sexy because there is nothing sitting on it [02:56]
asciilifeform it is sorta like minix1 [02:56]
asciilifeform if it were to be sat upon actual iron, it would very quickly come to resemble minix3. [02:56]
mircea_popescu " the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage." [02:56]
mircea_popescu because why ? and don't say gfx card. [02:57]
asciilifeform even if you make the networking go over slip (yes, it has uart driver! behold) [02:57]
asciilifeform you still gotta cache the disk. [02:57]
asciilifeform no way to weasel out of it, if you want to keep up with the blockchain. [02:57]
mircea_popescu so you cache the disk. [02:57]
asciilifeform and you need a memory allocator. [02:58]
asciilifeform which is absent. [02:58]
asciilifeform which is actually how i found this thing at all. [02:58]
asciilifeform was looking at ancient 'malloc's [02:58]
mircea_popescu right. you get one you can trust. [02:58]
mircea_popescu like, a rowhammer immune one. [02:58]
asciilifeform no such thing on the pc. [02:59]
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asciilifeform for so long as somebody can lead you to walk contiguous path in ram, you can rowhammer. [02:59]
asciilifeform (if you own that particular type of iron) [02:59]
mircea_popescu but they can't. [03:00]
mircea_popescu because you write your own allocator. [03:00]
asciilifeform it still creates contiguous swaths [03:00]
asciilifeform because the pc, unlike the lisp, doesn't have 'broken hearts' [03:00]
mircea_popescu mmm [03:00]
asciilifeform (these were magical bits that one could set in any memory word, that would cause it to transparently redirect to another word) [03:01]
asciilifeform it abolished the need for actual continuity in allocated segments. [03:01]
asciilifeform but at the obvious cost of... well, having such things kicking around. [03:01]
asciilifeform like so many little wormholes. [03:01]
asciilifeform *the lispm [03:02]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [03:02]
gribble Current Blocks: 382118 | Current Difficulty: 6.225398244976082E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 383039 | Next Difficulty In: 921 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [03:02]
asciilifeform at any rate, the correct way to build memory is - cons cells. as in, every addressable unit actually contains a word followed by another which acts solely as an address of 'next word.' [03:05]
mircea_popescu but that aside : if you build your own allocator you can do a lot of things you wish you could have done. [03:06]
asciilifeform when you desperately need speed / compactness, you use 'cdr coding' which is a cheat whereby you set a bit in the former word which signifies 'next is not an address but actually the next word.' [03:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in so far as the code is c code and the allocator needs to return contiguous regions of ram, you end up with malloc. [03:07]
mircea_popescu no [03:07]
mircea_popescu you end up with WHAT YOU THINK MALLOC IS. [03:07]
mircea_popescu but dollars to donuts that is pointedly not what malloc actuyally is. [03:07]
* asciilifeform was researching this very this [03:08]
mircea_popescu "this very this" lol. i'm not going to even research it. i know it's what the nexus of all diddlery would have to be if i was running the diddle department. [03:08]
mircea_popescu subtle, yes. there. has got to be there. [03:09]
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asciilifeform if you want to laugh, cry, read the one in gpg 1.4.10. [03:09]
mircea_popescu noty [03:09]
asciilifeform (which has fudge factors, even, yes!) [03:09]
asciilifeform and rides on top of the system malloc at the same time (yes) [03:09]
mircea_popescu larger amt of phone number is always best [03:10]
asciilifeform this is one of the problems i've been fighting with for perhaps a year now. [03:10]
asciilifeform and the only promising heuristic thus far is a somewhat mircea_popescuine one - namely, to de-generalize the problem [03:11]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: myes, although mayhap we talk of different things [03:11]
asciilifeform (don't guarantee any arbitrary allocs whenever, but only bignums and only in strictly defined progression) [03:12]
mircea_popescu there should, i imagine, be a way to extract significant cheating out of the fact that we don't intend to support random gunk. [03:12]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes what do you have in mind ? [03:12]
ben_vulpes various kinds of salaried and hourly employment. yourself? [03:12]
ben_vulpes "employ" in the states is a peculiar contractual arrangement where the employer agrees to remit taxes on behalf of the employed. [03:12]
mircea_popescu well, ok, but specifically. sf salary + benefits ? oregon salary + sorta ? low salary + equity ? [03:13]
mircea_popescu and doing what, webstuff in java only ? or ? [03:13]
ben_vulpes ah [03:13]
ben_vulpes i pay technical staff hourly rates such that should staff choose to work a 35+ hour week, they'd make depending on their value to my org ±10% of a bigcorp salary. [03:15]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ? [03:15]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: l0l srsly, 10%?!! what are they, legless cambodians, hanging in nets ? [03:16]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes and do you have workload they can actually work 35 hour weeks every week ? and doing what, tech wise ? js ? ruby ? py ? perl ? [03:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform +-10% means 90 to 110% [03:16]
asciilifeform ah [03:16]
* asciilifeform has been, perhaps, out of bed for too long [03:16]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: heh. [03:16]
ben_vulpes re technologies, we do mobile in obj-c, swift (i guess theoretically), java, server stuff in python/django/whatever, ruby/rails/whatever, java/clojure/{it's all algol you know}, and actual web stuff in whatever hodgepodge of html/css and js is already in place or pretty well-curated tools that...abstract over the hodgepodge to one degree or another. [03:18]
mircea_popescu well... asciilifeform meet ben_vulpes ; ben_vulpes meet asciilifeform [03:19]
asciilifeform i think i met ben_vulpes somewhere [03:19]
asciilifeform l0l [03:19]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: staff are guaranteed 32 hours/wk, client work backstopped out of my pocket. [03:19]
ben_vulpes i can always cook up work for people to do on my own tooling. [03:19]
mircea_popescu alfie grew an extra hand, was looking for exactly this type of flexible deal to help pay for his latest nuclear missile arrangement. [03:20]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you're familiar with stan's line about "working on anything not of my own mind is only slightly better than suicide"? [03:20]
mircea_popescu eh fuck him, what, he gets a say now ? [03:20]
asciilifeform eh i do items like 'port $proggy to $toaster' [03:21]
asciilifeform or 'determine if this hdd is able to serve up diddled boot sector.' [03:21]
ben_vulpes well should i need someone to port eulora to ipad i'll ring him up [03:21]
asciilifeform do. [03:21]
asciilifeform will port to supernintendo if someone wants. [03:22]
ben_vulpes as it stands, he hates the kind of work my shop does, and i have a list of people who also hate the kind of work that we do but also find the company company so beguiling that they're willing and sometimes even eager to do it anyways. [03:22]
* asciilifeform cannot compete with coolies either in cost or in enthusiasm [03:23]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform knows: life in the galleys is marginally less miserable with phri3ndz [03:23]
asciilifeform aha. [03:24]
ben_vulpes not eager to do it, i misspoke. eager to spend time in our mines rather than wherever they slave normally. [03:25]
ben_vulpes oh and shut the fuck up [03:25]
ben_vulpes i know your rates, and you could live comfortably out here. [03:25]
ben_vulpes 220V, 3 phase, a poured pad, and nobody would bat an eye if you weather-proofed the ADU. [03:26]
asciilifeform not looking for indenture with quarter. more of an old-fashioned thing-with-deliverables [03:26]
ben_vulpes d'you know? i only landed my first of those within the past month. [03:27]
asciilifeform congrats ben_vulpes [03:27]
ben_vulpes operating as a corporation rather than an individual has benefits like that. [03:28]
ben_vulpes much like picking up chixx, it's easier if you have a few in tow already. [03:29]
ben_vulpes also worth mentioning that gracefully handling rapidly shifting requirements is core to how the business operates. [03:30]
asciilifeform i suppose this means that ben_vulpes is also ready to port to supernintendo. [03:31]
ben_vulpes port natoblock $thing, sure. [03:32]
ben_vulpes !s bezzlecorp [03:33]
assbot 2 results for 'bezzlecorp' : [03:33]
ben_vulpes it is purpose designed, asciilifeform. [03:33]
* asciilifeform remembers very well what ben_vulpes's shop makes, from hanging out at c3. [03:33]
* ben_vulpes is unsure if this is wankery or pricing exercise [03:34]
* mircea_popescu wonders himself. [03:35]
asciilifeform prolly the former [03:35]
mircea_popescu mkay. [03:35]
ben_vulpes if i find anything, i'll let you know [03:36]
asciilifeform ty. [03:36]
asciilifeform or wake me up if folks start paying for sunlight, aha. [03:37]
ben_vulpes if you want intros to indenturitude, i can provide this as well. [03:37]
asciilifeform no but ty. [03:37]
ben_vulpes culture out here is such that you can skirt by for ~30/wk and a relatively cheap commute, with no "lifetime commitment". [03:38]
ben_vulpes this provides for some small amount of thinking time. [03:38]
mircea_popescu o.O [03:38]
mircea_popescu 30 whats ? [03:38]
asciilifeform not interested in indenture. [03:38]
ben_vulpes hrs [03:38]
mircea_popescu ah ah [03:39]
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asciilifeform at any rate, i must confess that i don't do www or ipnohe for any amount of pay. [03:41]
ben_vulpes do consider the improvement in the serf's quality of life when biking (or walking!) thirty minutes to and fro the galley each day, compared to the hour in the wheelbox each direction that can be had in other places, composed with the shorter work week that is possible. [03:41]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: for log readers only, this confession. [03:41]
asciilifeform aha. [03:41]
ben_vulpes and googOS? [03:41]
asciilifeform ditto [03:42]
mircea_popescu not necessarily unrelated, [03:42]
assbot ... ( ) [03:42]
asciilifeform ^ aha this is a good picture of www programming. [03:42]
mircea_popescu anyway, this "can't have X, can't have non-X" sorta thing will necessarily resolve itself in time. there's no other way. [03:42]
asciilifeform guess what, i don't give milk either. [03:44]
asciilifeform or lay eggs. [03:45]
mircea_popescu also liable to resolve in time [03:45]
mircea_popescu random thought of the day : wtf is this "boyfriend" bs. girlfriend i can see, but it's manfriend innit. [03:45]
asciilifeform why not 'cockfriend' [03:45]
mircea_popescu maybe if you're gay. [03:46]
asciilifeform does have that flavour, doesntit [03:46]
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liquidassets Boyfriend suggests, ‘he’s not fucking other women just me’ Manfriend, not so. [04:16]
BingoBoingo Boyfriend suggest alterboy being buggered over the altar [04:32]
punkman guten morgen [04:36]
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punkman heh [05:02]
assbot Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast ... ( ) [05:02]
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thestringpuller ;;ticker [07:04]
gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 383.52, Best ask: 383.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 383.52, 24 hour volume: 286173.58836608, 24 hour low: 366.66, 24 hour high: 504.0, 24 hour vwap: None [07:04]
davout messieurs dames [07:46]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2360 @ 0.00059225 = 1.3977 BTC [+] {7} [09:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2246 @ 0.00073859 = 1.6589 BTC [+] {11} [09:26]
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punkman dat havelock action [09:43]
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jurov i tried to sync my 0.5.4 to core 0.11, it won't sync [10:09]
jurov returned to 0.10 which works [10:10]
shinohai ;;later tell SuchWow Your quit message is atrocious. "This too is temporary, as most things are" reduces your comma usage and makes you not sound like a hippy. [10:10]
gribble The operation succeeded. [10:10]
shinohai jurov: I have had same results. it won't sync against new core. [10:10]
punkman what happens with 0.11? [10:13]
shinohai I can't get core to not crash 0.11 xD [10:15]
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shinohai I have an old 0.10.0 binary that does. [10:16]
jurov punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore [10:20]
punkman jurov, does the 0.11 instance ban the 0.5.4? [10:22]
jurov at first it did [10:24]
jurov then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11 [10:24]
jurov then 0.5.4 connected but could not get data [10:24]
jurov then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later [10:25]
shinohai I can't say for certain until I clone my drive, had to idle it for a bit. [10:29]
shinohai Got new shitty 500 mb drive yesterday from china! :D [10:29]
punkman [10:54]
assbot Baidu found China’s “ghost cities,” but it is keeping their locations mostly a secret - Quartz ... ( ) [10:54]
shinohai << haz paywall sorry [10:59]
assbot Mexico’s Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Personal Marijuana Use - WSJ ... ( ) [10:59]
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asciilifeform jurov: << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ? [12:09]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 13:24:30; jurov: then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later [12:09]
asciilifeform << might want to patch trb's version thing instead [12:10]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 13:23:33; jurov: then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11 [12:10]
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mircea_popescu liquidassets which is the point. [13:42]
mircea_popescu Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast << ahahahaha no, really ? [13:42]
mircea_popescu i tried to sync my 0.5.4 to core 0.11, it won't sync << this is a horribru error message. [13:42]
mircea_popescu punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore << nuts. so 0.11 is forked off the network then ? [13:43]
mircea_popescu << loller. [13:48]
assbot Bitcoin Total Output Volume ... ( ) [13:48]
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thestringpuller what's with reddit complaining about the blocksize bullshit again? [13:55]
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trinque The Department of Defense's posture on cybersecurity ultimately affects national security. << There's a deep cultural flaw in this sentence emanating from the word posture. [13:56]
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mircea_popescu why ? the country admits it's posturing. [13:58]
trinque the notion that merely looking like the thing you wish to be is sufficient has seeped into everything [13:58]
trinque right [13:58]
mircea_popescu this is good. [13:58]
mircea_popescu thank you for your leadership. [13:58]
punkman so according to that chart 11million btc moved in a day? [13:59]
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mircea_popescu i wouldn't think it's worth a crap in absolute terms. [14:00]
mircea_popescu "~5x more than previously average" [14:00]
mircea_popescu within an unknown error margin. [14:00]
punkman days destroyed is much smoother [14:00]
mircea_popescu which indicates that it's mostly people moving the same btc back and forth. [14:01]
mircea_popescu ie, that same 1-2% of the coins that are in hands of self important usg ceo/vc types. [14:01]
mircea_popescu my god, ceo is going to go the way of nigger and handicapped within my lifetime isn't it. [14:01]
mircea_popescu it already is practically an insult. [14:01]
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mircea_popescu and mpex is back. sorry for the downtime everyone. [14:26]
* adlai is surprised nobody has yet accused the marshals of building the recent eiffel tower, as auction optimization [14:30]
punkman the what? [14:33]
adlai patternspeak for up-and-down. i'm probably misusing it, iirc it's only an eiffel if the down returns to levels before the up [14:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00054231 = 15.8355 BTC [+] {2} [14:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2360 @ 0.00053447 = 1.2613 BTC [-] {2} [14:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00053447 = 23.3831 BTC [-] [14:53]
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mircea_popescu adlai because it's not true. they get accused of the scams they actually pull. [15:10]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.33730996 BTC on 'Yes' - Luke Skywalker Turns To The Dark Side In Episode VII - [15:13]
mircea_popescu jurov : qntra shares added. [15:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42793 @ 0.00054238 = 23.2101 BTC [+] {7} [15:22]
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PeterL mircea_popescu: so what was the problem with MPEx? [15:26]
mircea_popescu yes. [15:26]
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adlai !b 2 [15:27]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [15:27]
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deedbot- [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) October 2015 Statement - [15:33]
PeterL << You are saying chemistry is not still alive? Seems to me that there is alot going on in chem right now? [15:34]
assbot Logged on 04-11-2015 18:01:40; asciilifeform: which more or less died out as a scientific field in the 'civilized' world. [15:34]
mircea_popescu jurov ^ qntra shares added, also. [15:35]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [15:35]
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ascii_field mircea_popescu: my broadcast later tonight when i get out of the pit [15:36]
mircea_popescu cool ascii_field [15:36]
ascii_field PeterL: most of what's happening in chem is a) usg grantsmanship b) monkey tricks to extend pharma patents. and most of what remains is being done by folks who grew up with hobby chemistry. [15:37]
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PeterL There is also chemistry research at, for example, Dow Chemical, which they don't publish but instead use to make themselves money, does this not count? [15:39]
ascii_field PeterL: in so far as i can see from my perch, nothing fundamental has happened in at least a generation. [15:40]
ascii_field whole thing runs on 1960s fumes. [15:40]
mircea_popescu we were just discussing tropsch last week! [15:40]
mircea_popescu lots is happening. [15:40]
ascii_field nothing fundamental. [15:40]
ascii_field e.g., nylon. [15:40]
mircea_popescu catalysts are fundamental enough. [15:40]
ascii_field it's massage. [15:40]
ascii_field e.g., +10% yield, -10% cost [15:40]
mircea_popescu yes well nothing fundamental has happened in physics since mendeleev [15:40]
ascii_field like semiconductors. [15:40]
mircea_popescu what the fuck's gonna happen, invent a new electron load ? [15:41]
PeterL there is alot of organic synthesis space that has been investigated since then [15:41]
ascii_field fission's pretty fundamental. even something like tunnel diode. [15:41]
mircea_popescu so then catalytic chemistry counts. [15:41]
PeterL a bunch of small improvements adds up over time [15:41]
mircea_popescu how the fuck do you think you have genome sequencing, otherwise, and why the fuck do you think woman's stockings is a bigger deal. [15:42]
ascii_field it'd be fundamental if it opens up a whole concept that was previously closed. e.g., if a catalyst were to be found that makes electrolysis of h2o reasonably efficient [15:42]
ascii_field or room temp supercon. [15:42]
ascii_field etc [15:42]
PeterL I see, if you push the goal posts far enough away then nobody will ever score [15:43]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: yer looking in the wrong end of the funnel. yes, women still wear stockings, but american south no longer can have plantations, because the fiber doesn't grow out of the ground. [15:43]
ascii_field but comes out of a nozzle in cn. [15:43]
ascii_field PeterL: there is such a thing as invention. [15:44]
ascii_field and it - for the most part - isn't happening. [15:45]
PeterL but you are saying only super-invention counts? [15:45]
mircea_popescu this is nonsense, srlsy. the 70s-90s in catalysts are more important than anything that ever happened in chemistry. [15:45]
ascii_field didn't say 'useless' [15:45]
mircea_popescu you can fucking go around looking for biosynthesizers now, for this reason [15:45]
ascii_field just - not fundamental. [15:45]
ascii_field 'fundamental' is an actual thing. it doesn't resolve to 'very spiffy', it has a meaning [15:46]
mircea_popescu it IS fundamental. [15:46]
ascii_field as in, you can build ~new~ structure on it [15:46]
mircea_popescu what is your definition ? [15:46]
mircea_popescu yes, new structure. [15:46]
ascii_field the 17th floor of empire state bldg is not a fundament. [15:46]
mircea_popescu but the FACT that now there are 17 floor buildings IS fundament. [15:46]
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PeterL but without the 17th floor you can't build the 18th floor [15:46]
mircea_popescu i don't care you sat on your tatched roof in mongolia and thus "dreamed" of skyscraper. [15:46]
ascii_field bldg has a foundation. it is different from the other parts of the structure in that it lets you start having floors where prior you could only sit down in the dirt. [15:47]
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ascii_field this is not a moral judgement, just an observation - you need different people for the foundation of a concept, than for 17th floor [15:48]
ascii_field poor old j.c.maxwell gets no rest when this comes up, but i'ma have to use him as example again. he didn't even bother ~trying~ to build a radio... [15:49]
mircea_popescu you've still not defined your "fundamental" "actula thing" [15:49]
ascii_field though he derived all of the maths that have or will ever apply. [15:49]
ascii_field ~that~'s fundamental. [15:50]
ascii_field yesterday no one knew em wave was a thing. and then - it is. [15:50]
mircea_popescu and you expect this to happen in chemistry ? [15:50]
mircea_popescu it never happened in chemistry. it was always physics. [15:50]
ascii_field it was happening as late as 1960s [15:50]
mircea_popescu was not. [15:51]
mircea_popescu this is like complaining electric engineering didn't invent any new type of electron. [15:51]
ascii_field belousov-zhabotinsky reaction. [15:51]
mircea_popescu of course it doesn't. it's engineering. [15:51]
mircea_popescu lol ? [15:51]
mircea_popescu THAT is fundamental, catalythics are now ? [15:51]
mircea_popescu not* ? what are you, hungarian ? [15:51]
ascii_field it was utterly fundamental [15:51]
mircea_popescu less words more proof. [15:52]
ascii_field startling to the point that nato lands shelved it as sov disinfo for decades [15:52]
mircea_popescu what nato does informs no one to no degree. [15:52]
ascii_field proved that thermodynamics is only stochastically applicable. [15:52]
* kakobreklaa is now known as kakobrekla [15:52]
ascii_field (that energy is only conserved on a large enough time scale) [15:52]
* kakobrekla is now known as Guest14786 [15:53]
ascii_field aww i ~liked~ kakobreklaa [15:53]
mircea_popescu but by your very definition this is not a fundamental result. [15:53]
ascii_field so finnish [15:53]
mircea_popescu it is merely the experimental verification of the theoretically obvious [15:53]
mircea_popescu ever since qm reduced macro tm to the status of macro tm [15:53]
* Guest14786 is now known as kakobreklaa [15:54]
mircea_popescu !up kakobreklaa [15:54]
-assbot- You voiced kakobreklaa for 30 minutes. [15:54]
* assbot gives voice to kakobreklaa [15:54]
kakobreklaa fuckin chanserv [15:54]
mircea_popescu hola! [15:54]
kakobreklaa nickserv i mean [15:54]
kakobreklaa hi [15:54]
mircea_popescu this inspires me! tonight ima have one girl write nickserv on her pubis, and the other chanserv [15:54]
mircea_popescu boi o boi am i hgonna have a fun [15:55]
ascii_field [15:55]
assbot BZ-Phenomenology ... ( ) [15:55]
mircea_popescu "In its classical form the BZ reaction consist of a one-electron redox catalyst" [15:55]
mircea_popescu aka "let's ignore what's being said and run off with one marginal example of the broad category discussed". [15:56]
kakobreklaa < i dont see how this fixes your dust problems - you may feel better handling it but you still need to handle it. i suspect you let some retarded algo chose your tx outputs for you amirite? [15:56]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 06:14:54; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ? [15:56]
ascii_field iirc mircea_popescu was speaking of petro cracking catalysts earlier ? [15:56]
ascii_field which are '% massage' rather than 'new field' [15:56]
mircea_popescu no. speaking of catalythic chemistry. as a thing. which it is. [15:56]
mircea_popescu and my examples were around genome research and biosynthesizer identification [15:57]
mircea_popescu neither of which can be read reductionistically to "petrochem". [15:57]
mircea_popescu kakobreklaa it will discourage people from sending them. [15:57]
kakobreklaa lol, like poorfags read [15:57]
ascii_field these last two, i had the misfortune to be involved in. [15:57]
mircea_popescu it's also a problem of cost. dust txn impose a cost on us. [15:57]
mircea_popescu currently this CAN work as an extraction engine - it costs me more to make the payouts than i take in. [15:57]
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ascii_field l0lwut, bitbet is undergoing shitburial ? [15:58]
mircea_popescu ascii_field so you hate them, that's fine, but you can't impugn the whole subdiscipline just because idiots somewhere [15:58]
kakobreklaa if you leave dust sitting long enough and at some point flush all the dust in a single tx to a nondusty result ? [15:58]
mircea_popescu "long enough" = cost ; flush = cost. etc. [15:58]
mircea_popescu it is not worth my time to handle 10k satoshi txn for less than 10k satoshi. this is a fact. [15:59]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: i don't hate'em, but i did search in vain for signs that somebody was ~thinking~ rather than merely piling intel xeons ten metres high [15:59]
ascii_field and doing dynamics sims [15:59]
kakobreklaa the long enough cost on dust is dust. [15:59]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [15:59]
mircea_popescu think that i have to keep SOME dust over here while idiots get aggitated because "o noes it's been 25 hours" so im now creating more dust [15:59]
mircea_popescu which will come back to me, and i have to sit on it, and create more dust to payout. [16:00]
mircea_popescu i suppose if you prefer i can instead make it a time rule, and be like "bets under 0.0001 are paid in a year. bets under 0.01 are paid in a week" [16:00]
mircea_popescu seems it is saner to be paid in money than in time, to me. [16:00]
kakobreklaa so you wanna make poorfags even poorer to a point where they no longer send a satoshi, is this the idea? [16:00]
mircea_popescu they can save up. [16:01]
kakobreklaa l0l [16:01]
mircea_popescu there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. [16:01]
phf v6 is a beauty, but for the amount of stuff that's required to be written why not lisp os? [16:01]
punkman why not a minimum bet amount, everything else gracious donation [16:01]
mircea_popescu it's just not worth anyone's time for them to exist. [16:01]
mircea_popescu punkman kinda what i was proposing, a progressive scale. imo the way i stated it is better pr, but whatevs. [16:02]
ascii_field phf: i was trying to see if anyone comes to this conclusion independently of my saying it. [16:02]
mircea_popescu phf because unix runs on 486 and lisp does not. [16:02]
ascii_field phf: THE SIMPLEST malloc() is 10x more complicated than, e.g, the gc engine in 'tinyscheme' [16:02]
ascii_field and it sure as fuck runs on 486 [16:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, im off will bbl. [16:02]
ascii_field and even 16bit micro. [16:02]
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mircea_popescu ascii_field god damned weren't you going on about how it needs sbcl machine bla bla ? [16:02]
ascii_field for periphs [16:03]
mircea_popescu this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen. [16:03]
ascii_field if you want to use it as a graphical terminal [16:03]
ascii_field let's not mix the warm and the soft [16:03]
ascii_field i have raw scheme going on x64 metal right now [16:03]
ascii_field just no useful i/o. [16:03]
phf mircea_popescu: i'm just stirring shit up [16:03]
PeterL mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do? [16:04]
mircea_popescu anyway bbl fo reals. [16:04]
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kakobreklaa way cooler to just do it arbitrarily. [16:04]
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lobbes !up ascii_field [16:08]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:08]
phf ascii_field: my undergrad "thesis" was putting a malloc on a one of those teaching os's, it was interesting in that "wrestling with bare metal" sort of way, but then i learned how lispm does it, and realized that i was lied to [16:08]
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ascii_field aha [16:09]
ascii_field phf: i tried to explain some of this in last night's thread [16:09]
ascii_field but realized that my interlocutors did not know the fundamentals involved (because scarcely anybody does, and not everyone is an archaeologist) [16:10]
thestringpuller phf: ugh they made you do that shit too? we had to write malloc for the game boy advance, or a game boy advance game for a final project for course in C [16:14]
phf ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad" [16:22]
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ascii_field or 'gc sux because java' [16:22]
ascii_field etc [16:22]
phf right [16:22]
kakobreklaa live and learn [16:24]
* assbot removes voice from kakobreklaa [16:24]
thestringpuller !up kakobreklaa [16:25]
* assbot gives voice to kakobreklaa [16:25]
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shinohai [16:28]
assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( ) [16:28]
jurov << for electrum server [16:28]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 15:08:18; asciilifeform: jurov: << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ? [16:28]
ascii_field jurov: do i understand, this needs a heavily patched client ? [16:29]
ascii_field and only available presently for the heathen one ? [16:29]
lobbes kakobreklaa: fuckin chanserv << I know what you mean. I had to ghost my nick off earlier [16:30]
phf thestringpuller: it wasn't actually forced. started as a final project in william arbaugh's (the guy who did the smooth handover wireless implementation at umd) class, where we were writing a malloc for the teaching os as a final project, only three mallocs came anywhere near the spec, since mine was one of them i had the opportunity to say that the whole thing was a sham "shit code written by retards", etc. and that you can have orders [16:31]
phf of magnitude improvements and that the whole thing is not even funny. he suggested that i do an implementation as an indepedent study for another semester and that's what i did [16:31]
* ascii_field remembers this os [16:32]
phf i've been trying very hard for the past 15 minutes to remember its name or anything about it, and even though i spent 8 months with it, i'm completely failing to [16:33]
ascii_field that was where i learned to despise unix. [16:33]
ascii_field in my era it was named 'geek os' but it had some earlier name. [16:33]
PeterL if unix is so horrible, why is there no alternative taking over the world? [16:33]
PeterL oh, wait, windows already did, right? [16:34]
ascii_field PeterL: iron [16:35]
PeterL the element? [16:35]
ascii_field no, the element is mainly si [16:35]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [16:38]
trinque PeterL: are you arguing from the wisdom of the mass market customer? [16:40]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [16:40]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:40]
ascii_field i'ma do a worked example for PeterL [16:40]
ascii_field so here goes. [16:40]
ascii_field your NIC, regardless of who built it, operates with ring buffers, roughly like this [16:40]
PeterL << when I was in middle school we went on a field trip to the Warren (MI) Army Tank Plant, tour included the Cray II, cool looking room sized machine with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain [16:40]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 01:07:56; asciilifeform: at any rate, i (and $maxint others) will port $whateverthefuckyouwant to, e.g., cray II. for a fee. [16:40]
ascii_field when a packet comes in over the wire, it gets thrown into a buffer pointed to by a particular register in the card's cpu, and the latter reads the addr of the next buffer from a pre-baked list [16:41]
ascii_field and rotates through said list. [16:41]
ascii_field ditto for transmission. [16:41]
PeterL trinque: yes, sarcasm flag operational, mostly [16:41]
ascii_field but what if - per last night's thread - you decided that you DON'T WANT TO REPRESENT STRINGS AS CONTIGUOUS BYTES ? [16:42]
ascii_field but rather, as cons cells? [16:42]
ascii_field where each character is stored in half of a word, with the other half being a pointer to the next char ? [16:42]
PeterL wouldn't that make strings take up twice as much memory? [16:42]
ascii_field suddenly you need a massive 'bureaucracy' to convert between the contiguous blobs your devices eat and shit, and your notion. [16:42]
ascii_field PeterL: see 'cdr coding' for why this does not have to be the case [16:43]
ascii_field i picked this example out of a tall hat with many others, to demonstrate the impedance mismatch between the lisp way of doing things and pc iron [16:43]
ascii_field and how it cannot be cleanly papered over in software. [16:43]
ascii_field AND this is a device for which we HAVE the specs ! [16:44]
ascii_field for most pc iron - we do not... [16:44]
ascii_field and worse, ~think~ that we do. [16:44]
ascii_field !s intel me [16:44]
assbot 21 results for 'intel me' : [16:45]
ascii_field i am deliberately not even mentioning gpu, because it is possible to have a useful computer with no vga board (e.g., you can speak x11 over tcp) [16:45]
ascii_field but you do need the nic. [16:45]
ascii_field likewise, pc arch is braindamaged in 1,001 ways which are NOT realistically correctable, and certainly not in software [16:46]
ascii_field e.g., there is no powerfail interrupt [16:47]
ascii_field nor any built-in provision for battery-backed transactional ram [16:47]
PeterL so the only way to get a better operating system is to start with purpose built hardware? [16:47]
ascii_field yes. [16:47]
ascii_field i learned this the hard way. [16:48]
ascii_field and all questions of os aside, you will need to bake own silicon if you don't like running usg blobs. [16:49]
ascii_field (the odds are very good that your southbridge is running just one such as we speak.) [16:49]
ascii_field even if we ignore the profound braindamage of the x86 arch - instruction set, memory structure, clumsily retrofitted multiprocessor, etc. - [16:51]
ascii_field the basic fact is that no two x86 pc boxes can be relied upon to have the same iron [16:53]
PeterL If you hypothetically could make your own silicon, and "real computer", do you think it could ever displace the entrenched systems everybody is currently using? [16:53]
ascii_field so now you have to constantly chase the largely nonexistent docs for new southbridge, etc [16:53]
ascii_field PeterL: no likelier than bitcoin displacing usd [16:54]
ascii_field or 'mazerati' killing 'ford'. [16:54]
ascii_field and you can't somehow beat microshit and crapple by competing on an imaginary playing field [16:55]
ascii_field there is no playing field [16:55]
PeterL derpiest will continue running winblows [16:55]
ascii_field there is usg diktat and that's it. [16:55]
ascii_field it'd have to be a computer for 100 people. [16:55]
trinque PeterL: this assumes that the same group of derps will continue to exist forever [16:55]
ascii_field i do not know how to make a cpu for 100 people. [16:56]
* assbot removes voice from kakobreklaa [16:56]
PeterL lacks a certain "economy of scale" [16:56]
trinque sounds more like "will this superior military weapon ever supercede this other weaker weapon in terms of market penetration?" [16:56]
trinque well. yes, but not that way [16:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19974 @ 0.00053447 = 10.6755 BTC [-] [16:59]
PeterL military weapons measure penetration by inches of steel, not percentages of market [17:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00053447 = 3.5275 BTC [-] {2} [17:01]
trinque that was not the point. [17:01]
trinque if I have 10 nukes and you have 100 artillery in a fortress, and I nuke the fortress, does a nuke silo spring up in its midst? [17:02]
trinque quantity is not the only consideration, nor is everyone on the same side [17:03]
PeterL so "real computer" takes over when "winblows users" all die off? [17:03]
trinque takes over what? who cares if some poor guy still has an iPhone? [17:06]
ascii_field PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken [17:07]
ascii_field so you are reasoning with broken priors. [17:07]
PeterL trying to fit trinque's nuke-artillery metaphore onto computers, clearly failing [17:08]
ascii_field << see also. [17:08]
assbot Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [17:08]
ascii_field in particular, [17:09]
ascii_field 'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.' [17:09]
ascii_field microshit's very existence has deformed thought processes of a great many people. [17:09]
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* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:10]
PeterL !up ascii_field [17:10]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:10]
ascii_field PeterL: one of the things to understand is that your computer is the way it is because the 'computing industry' consists of 1,001 people mutually sucking one another's cocks and profiting off the braindamage to every fella actually trying to get useful work done. [17:12]
ascii_field << see thread. [17:12]
assbot Logged on 27-10-2015 15:31:19; asciilifeform: this keeps in perfect fitting with the 'computing industry'-as-a-protection racket business model of the last 20+ yrs, where it 'solves' exclusively those problems which it, itself, creates. [17:12]
PeterL I'm off to get the kids from school, mostly I lurk by reading the logs [17:14]
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* assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes [17:17]
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ben_vulpes phf: where's a sane place from which to procure gpg-error? i've found some text files scattered about the web but nothing in the gpgme lang/cl dir [17:17]
ben_vulpes aha libgpg-error i guess, derp. [17:18]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: the thing is shaky beyond belief [17:18]
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ascii_field not entirely unrelatedly, [17:20]
ascii_field i have a puzzle for ben_vulpes, who is awake, and mircea_popescu, who might soon awaken, and the rest: [17:20]
ascii_field this being: [17:20]
ascii_field what is 'v' worth ? [17:20]
* ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages" [17:21]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: when they ~are~ common lisp packages [17:21]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: don't mind me, i'm just trying to learn the violin. [17:21]
ascii_field ffi turds stink [17:21]
ascii_field invariably. [17:21]
ascii_field the author of an ffi pkg has no control over what c turd is on your box [17:22]
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ben_vulpes ascii_field: any "v", your "v" or "v" in the abstract? [17:31]
ascii_field part II of puzzle for ben_vulpes and mircea_popescu - what was the continuity bridge worth ? - [17:31]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 13:54:55; mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking. [17:31]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: in the abstract. [17:31]
ascii_field or rather, the concept+the working mechanism (ver 99) [17:32]
ben_vulpes possibly unvaluable and invaluable [17:33]
ascii_field these aren't things. [17:34]
ascii_field 'valueless' is a thing [17:34]
ascii_field 'valuable' is a thing. [17:34]
ben_vulpes well, what is the value of bitcoin? [17:34]
ascii_field to whom? [17:34]
* ben_vulpes bows [17:34]
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ascii_field it is very valuable to, e.g., mircea_popescu [17:35]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [17:36]
ben_vulpes are you then asking what the value of 'v' is to me, then? [17:36]
ben_vulpes then then then [17:36]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: the thing i'm trying to figure out is whether i'm smarter than a chicken. [17:37]
ascii_field so far the evidence points to the negative [17:37]
funkenstein_ what's the value of a bach partita? [17:37]
ascii_field funkenstein_: to his patrons, his ability to produce'em was valuable [17:38]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: I don't follow. again, as though I were five? [17:38]
ascii_field in the genuine sense of 'paid for.' [17:38]
punkman loper machine needs patrons too [17:38]
ben_vulpes !t s.nsa [17:38]
assbot You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey. [17:38]
ascii_field punkman: and mars needs women [17:38]
ben_vulpes !t m s.nsa [17:38]
assbot The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire. [17:38]
ben_vulpes !t m s.qntr [17:39]
assbot [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00022294 / 0.00023879 (7865 shares, 1.75 BTC) [17:39]
funkenstein_ aha, proggys need patron model not box in store model [17:40]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: do you understand why chicken in particular ? [17:41]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:41]
ben_vulpes !up ascii_field [17:44]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:44]
ben_vulpes not in the slightest. [17:44]
ben_vulpes in the sense of grown to be eaten? [17:44]
ascii_field in the sense that dumb bird lays eggs for free. [17:45]
ben_vulpes what the ever loving fuck is this mkerrorcodes.awk [17:46]
ben_vulpes well, "free". bird is fed. [17:46]
ascii_field aha. bird is smarter than ascii_field. [17:46]
ben_vulpes ascii_field is the proud owner of some equitytoiletpaper? [17:47]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: specifically discussing other works. [17:47]
ben_vulpes right. [17:47]
punkman [17:48]
assbot ... ( ) [17:48]
ascii_field summary of what punkman thought of the other works ? [17:48]
jurov "if you are any kind of open-source leader or senior figure who is male, do not be alone with any female, ever, at a technical conference." [17:50]
assbot From kafkatrap to honeytrap ... ( ) [17:50]
ascii_field jurov: its in the logz [17:50]
ascii_field whole thread [17:50]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: chicken cannot learn from its mistakes. [17:51]
trinque ascii_field: this is why I spoke of military hardware; it's only valuable if it's a) used and b) the user wins something of value [17:51]
ascii_field required reading for context: [17:51]
assbot Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [17:51]
punkman ascii_field: summary of what punkman thought of the other works ? << not at all [17:53]
* ascii_field not trying to troll people, but wants to get some sort of big picture view [17:53]
* ascii_field has a very distinct feeling, prompted by last night's thread, that he is failing a kind of economic iq test [17:54]
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phf ben_vulpes: libgpg-error, and share/common-lisp is installed with brew version, but [17:55]
phf gpgme bindings are broken, since they've not been updated since 2008 or so, i'm surprised they are in the source tree at all [17:56]
ascii_field ^^ [17:56]
* ascii_field distinctly recalls warning people about this a while back [17:56]
ascii_field gpg is ~extremely~ librarization-resistant, much like gcc. [17:56]
phf luckily for you today only you can get a new and improved PATCH from me that will at least let you create context, since i only finished it like last night, i don't yet know if it will actually encrypt, but it might [17:56]
ben_vulpes nifty, phf. [17:57]
trinque ascii_field: gotta invent the path which leads to the thing desired, not just the thing itself [17:57]
trinque there are plenty more knowledgable on this than myself, but this is why I ask periodically about smaller components of the thing, if such a thing exists at all [17:57]
ascii_field the most elementary component [17:57]
ascii_field is time. [17:57]
ascii_field my time. [17:57]
ascii_field there is not, it turns out, in many of these cases, any substitute for it. [17:58]
trinque that is certainly so [17:58]
ben_vulpes high performance individuals can hobble a team like this. [17:58]
ascii_field also there is no means of getting more than 24 hours of it per day. [17:59]
ben_vulpes "ah fuckit, get out of my way, i'll do it in a tenth the time and it'll be twice as good." [17:59]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: we are speaking of cases where there isn't even an 'it' prior. [17:59]
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ben_vulpes separate the doing of it from the thinking up of the it to do. [18:00]
ascii_field and at any rate, i'm not a 'high-performance' anything. [18:00]
trinque could very well be that the mechanism by which a central govt steals from a large population via fiat monetary systems got us the CPUs we use today far earlier than they'd have been had without the theft [18:00]
ascii_field trinque: even the hypothetical of 'without the theft' is rather like asking for 'without scurvy' [18:01]
trinque it means without bitcoin [18:01]
ascii_field at a certain stage of tech development, widespread scurvy is more or less certain [18:02]
trinque rather, before bitcoin this theft was possible [18:02]
trinque there was the thread about mathematics in the USSR which rings a bell here [18:02]
ascii_field multiple threads. [18:02]
ascii_field where i was trying to say more or less the same thing each time. [18:03]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: what's more valuable: a honed and tidied 'v' implementation or several different implementations from wotmembers? [18:03]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: i was speaking of neither [18:03]
ben_vulpes no i know. but i'm asking you another question of value. [18:03]
trinque sure, that market distortions happen doesn't mean they don't happen in a useful direction. it only means that other things will suffer greatly, that things are imbalanced. [18:03]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: but of the system consisting of the invention plus the demonstration of its feasibility. [18:03]
ascii_field i.e. the thing i made. [18:03]
trinque ascii_field: it's simply this, that other than via magical thinking and zealotry, your thing will only happen when it costs less than someone is willing to pay to solve a problem he has [18:04]
ascii_field trinque: aha [18:04]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: 'value of ideas'? [18:04]
ascii_field not of motherfucking 'ideas' [18:04]
trinque ascii_field: so you should go cause problems for people meantime! [18:04]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: of the working item [18:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7852 @ 0.00053447 = 4.1967 BTC [-] {2} [18:05]
ascii_field which the other implementations are using as a crib sheet [18:05]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: or take the example of my trb patches. [18:07]
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ascii_field (and the research that went into them) [18:07]
ascii_field this work had nothing to do with s.nsa product. [18:08]
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ben_vulpes while noble, i do not see much turkey-buying value in pogoquest. [18:09]
ascii_field how about trb as a whole ? [18:09]
ascii_field or the continuity bridge, from old thread linked earlier ? [18:10]
ascii_field or the removal of the 'orphan' blk and tx dos vectors ? etc [18:10]
ben_vulpes what is the value of a put on facebook expiring 5 years from now? [18:11]
ascii_field see, it is this 'noble' thing that i don't grasp [18:11]
ascii_field because so far what it appears to mean is 'that's nice, chicken, keep laying eggs, but go and look for food ~somewhere~' [18:11]
trinque do you benefit from a world where bitcoin functions or don't you? [18:11]
trinque it's not rhetorical, it's *the* question [18:12]
ascii_field i happen to think that i do. [18:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12808 @ 0.0005402 = 6.9189 BTC [+] {2} [18:12]
ascii_field but i could be wrong. [18:12]
trinque this I think is the value in doing "world-building" work [18:12]
ascii_field and anyway nobody asked me whether it 'ought to exist' [18:12]
ascii_field it exists. [18:12]
trinque not that there's immediate pay; it's a long position [18:12]
trinque whether it exists theoretically is distinct from whether this run of the idea takes now or after the next dark age [18:13]
ben_vulpes so you've captured the value. bitcoin survives, and you benefit from its survival. so do other people, but when you advertise you also pay for people to learn about the solutionspace in general, including your competition. [18:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24397 @ 0.00054354 = 13.2607 BTC [+] {2} [18:13]
ben_vulpes doesn't necessarily mean it's -ev to advertise, just that someone else is deriving value from your media buys as well. [18:13]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:14]
ben_vulpes there's an old thread around the shop: "ain't nobody motivated by money in the bank" [18:14]
ben_vulpes !up ascii_field [18:14]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:14]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: that sentence is incomplete [18:14]
ascii_field add '... until rent is due' [18:15]
ben_vulpes go, complete. [18:15]
ascii_field completed. [18:15]
ben_vulpes but then the money's not in the bank anymore! [18:15]
* ascii_field changes gas mask canister [18:15]
phf hehe [18:15]
ben_vulpes dafuq do you breathe, anyways. [18:16]
ascii_field air. [18:16]
trinque ben_vulpes: at his next cartridge change, slip him one with something that knocks him out, and make sure that he wakes up at your hq [18:16]
trinque heh! [18:16]
phf i think v is pretty cool [18:16]
ascii_field phf: but, as i think has been well established, not money-cool. [18:16]
ascii_field ditto trb. [18:17]
phf i don't know what that means, money's not cool, it's barelly adequate at purchasing cool (a highly debatable point) [18:19]
mircea_popescu ascii_field about the same that the us court system is worth. [18:19]
ascii_field money-cool means something that economically stands on its own [18:19]
mircea_popescu you can't sell it. if you keep it functioning well and in good shape, you can have an empire on the basis of it. [18:19]
ascii_field aha! mircea_popescu gets it. [18:20]
phf nobody's going to pay for v, but i thought that v is a dna level building block in a construction process of something that's beyond "money-cool", or bezzle cool as that's really what you're talking about ("rent is due") [18:20]
ascii_field nobody's ever paying for trb either. not even on lsd. [18:21]
ascii_field sunlight. [18:21]
mircea_popescu you're approximately in the position of a 20something woman who wants to be part of the cast of friends but doesn't have the rent. [18:21]
* ascii_field doesn't get the ref [18:22]
mircea_popescu you can't be in this cast if you can't make rent. and no, wondering "What my youthfull good looks are worth" does not work with that show [18:22]
mircea_popescu it's for a different show. [18:22]
mircea_popescu ;;google Friends [18:22]
gribble Friends - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Friends (TV Series 1994–2004) - IMDb: ; The Original Friends Site: [18:22]
ascii_field they charged the actors money ? [18:22]
mircea_popescu not the show. the ACTUAL thing. [18:22]
* ascii_field reads the pediwik in search of 'actual thing' [18:23]
mircea_popescu "hip cool young people and the things they do" [18:23]
mircea_popescu "the in crowd" [18:23]
mircea_popescu etc. [18:23]
ascii_field anyway i'm safely not these, already. [18:24]
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mircea_popescu no, you're breaking the comparison. [18:25]
ascii_field how? [18:25]
mircea_popescu ok, lemme go into painful detail. [18:25]
mircea_popescu there was once a group of 20something chicks that lived in so and so apartments and did so and so deeds and things. their history became the controlling factor for an entire generation of english speakers, who went and got rachedo's and so on and so forth. part A of comparison. [18:26]
* ascii_field escaped knowing any of this, somehow [18:26]
mircea_popescu there is today a group of people that do so and so with encryption and bitcoins and etc. their history will be the controlling factor for an entire generation [of mostly chinese and russian speakers], who'll go about calling themselves the MP of cmpany X, because ceo is uncool now. this is part B of comparison. [18:27]
mircea_popescu your notion that "oh, what is my participation in B's cool worth" is akin to the dumb polack chick in A going "what are my good looks worth, i can't make hollywood rent control" [18:27]
mircea_popescu nonsense. [18:27]
ascii_field mircea_popescu seems to think that i was looking for an answer other than the one i already derived. [18:27]
ascii_field i know full well that it is worth nothing. [18:28]
mircea_popescu you asked me. if you weren't looking for an answer, wh yask me ? [18:28]
mircea_popescu nothing is not the word. [18:28]
ascii_field wanted to see if anyone, incl. mircea_popescu, might find an error in my reasoning. [18:28]
ascii_field e.g., do i contribute something in particular, or is it fungible like the 'good looks of a 20yo cunt' [18:29]
* trinque marvels at both the output of this guy and his assessment of it [18:29]
mircea_popescu neither of these approaches is actually meaningful, you're just murking up the material. [18:29]
mircea_popescu [18:30]
assbot ... ( ) [18:30]
mircea_popescu sorta canine, i always thought. [18:30]
mircea_popescu anyway, to put the thing in more distant, and thus perhaps more comprehensible terms even if you'll likely not be able to resist the temptation to crush naisl with the microscope : "what is the value of rsa to kenyan ?" and "obviously all this 'crypto work' is general 20yo cunt good looks" to kenyan. [18:31]
mircea_popescu all this is rank nonsense. [18:31]
BingoBoingo << As long as it is not inflamed and angry it should be fine [18:32]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 19:02:01; mircea_popescu: this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen. [18:32]
mircea_popescu if i cared what kenyans value anything i might ask them. as it is, they don't even get a voice in blockchain size. [18:32]
ascii_field anyway i know very well that mircea_popescu runs a roman army, where you gotta bringe the horse, and the armour, and not a soviet army. [18:33]
mircea_popescu soviet armies are evil. [18:33]
* ascii_field was not advocating the merits of soviet armies. [18:34]
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mircea_popescu nothing, least of which me, keeps you from running your own hoisehold soviet army style or any other style. [18:34]
mircea_popescu but in the forum there's no place for anything else. [18:34]
ascii_field no argument [18:35]
mircea_popescu alrightythen! [18:35]
ascii_field i suppose i ought to cut to the chase: [18:35]
ascii_field my main project is cardano. which i would like to roll out before i get 'accidented', starve (which may happen quite soon), or exhaust the patience of my co-author or of the shareholders. and thus, [18:36]
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ascii_field from this point on i will have to ignore everything else, until rollout. [18:36]
ascii_field BUT if trb foundation really wants various things, it can make'em happen by... paying. [18:37]
mircea_popescu in other news, ima make myself some romanian style pickled cabbage! [18:37]
ascii_field neato [18:37]
* ben_vulpes has been waiting for this particular old tomato for some time [18:37]
mircea_popescu eh, relax wouldja. do what you can and let others do what they can and that's the whole story. [18:38]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: that's really the lot of it [18:38]
BingoBoingo << Like bitcoin I am going to have to value it as an Aleph, just dunno which one [18:38]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:19:33; ascii_field: what is 'v' worth ? [18:38]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: i posted all of this to add another 'can' to the list: services for pay. if anyone is interested in such. [18:38]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jan 2016 - [18:39]
mircea_popescu what's foundation got, like 10 btc or so ? [18:39]
ascii_field [18:40]
assbot [BTC-dev] Treasury October 2015 statement ... ( ) [18:40]
mircea_popescu iirc they were disinclined from getting servers even, for yet [18:40]
ascii_field 13.82746102. [18:40]
mircea_popescu neway. voluntary is voluntary. has its upsides an' its downsided. [18:40]
ascii_field aha. [18:41]
mircea_popescu and as always is the case in life, if one doesn't manage to make one thing work, one'll sooner or later meet the same thing later on, with worse downside and less upside. [18:41]
mircea_popescu after all, soviet armies even are a thing because the reason prefers to sleep, or how was that quote. [18:41]
ascii_field again, not trying to troll people, but fact of the matter is that i only got so much 'voluntary'. and gotta prioritize. [18:42]
ascii_field 'cause if i starve, this cheats the shareholders. [18:42]
mircea_popescu makes sense. [18:42]
mircea_popescu i dun think anyone was really going "hey, alf is not doing enough works!" or anything ? [18:42]
ascii_field wouldn't surprise me [18:43]
mircea_popescu a part of your problems are in your own head, alfie. [18:44]
mircea_popescu !s it's a job not a conviction [18:44]
assbot 1 results for 'it's a job not a conviction' : [18:44]
phf ascii_field: you're producing the most output by a margin of anyone here [18:44]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:44]
mircea_popescu :D [18:45]
mircea_popescu assbot rules. [18:45]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [18:45]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [18:45]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:45]
phf kek [18:45]
ascii_field they're only in my head in the sense that i'm not clever enough to be 'stand on own' economically as described in mircea_popescu's article re: same. [18:45]
ascii_field gotta work, pretty much every day of the year. [18:45]
mircea_popescu it'll come. [18:45]
mircea_popescu anyway, i appreciate the sentiment, i really do, it's pure love "oh im sorry i couldn't do more". fine, but don't let it consume you. [18:46]
mircea_popescu do what you can, when you can, you got a lifetime ahead o you. [18:46]
ascii_field pretty sure i got maybe a year or two [18:46]
ascii_field but aside. [18:46]
mircea_popescu a lifetime is not temporally specified. [18:46]
ascii_field aha! [18:46]
ascii_field anyway my objective wasn't to 'emo' people - recall, i have two bits of emotion register. [18:47]
mircea_popescu the objective emotion, in 28 days! [18:48]
ascii_field but to state 'various xxxxx is now available for a fee, unless at some point i get rich enough to afford the armour without having to pull own plow.' [18:48]
ascii_field and no, i don't expect any takers. and don't intend to 'emo' the non-takers [18:49]
ascii_field because i'm not (imho) retarded. [18:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00054456 = 27.7453 BTC [+] [18:49]
ascii_field << meanwhile schmucks advertise 0days 'FOR RENT!!' [18:50]
assbot Exploit kit! RIG v4.0 i am make Service Regular Updates Rebu - ... ( ) [18:50]
ascii_field wtf, how does this work. [18:50]
mircea_popescu well... tghey get more rooted boxes. [18:52]
ascii_field but it never made any sense how one could evict a 'tenant' on one of these. [18:52]
ascii_field you'd end up playing 'core wars' [18:53]
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mircea_popescu << dollar is only in this discussion because trying to give a newfag dimension to it. otherwise, the transaction fees/limits are established byt miners. [18:57]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 19:03:04; PeterL: mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do? [18:57]
* ascii_field sees 'newfag' for 1st time in engl. [18:58]
mircea_popescu << i think this is a drastic reduction that entirely misses the point. i'm generally careful not to discuss things i don't understand. [18:59]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 19:21:12; phf: ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad" [18:59]
ascii_field ^ i think he was referring in general to judgements on ~the possible~ based on ~the extant~ [18:59]
mircea_popescu yeah well that never fucking worked. [19:00]
mircea_popescu but the spots on my spleen were because we can't seem to pin this down for five minutes. [19:00]
mircea_popescu keeps shapeshifting. [19:00]
ascii_field which this [19:00]
mircea_popescu actually, this is probably long overdue and a major public service. so i ordered teh gals bring cognac and i shall proceed [19:01]
ascii_field i'm seein' five or six thises [19:01]
mircea_popescu to ennumerate whatever the fuck we're even doing. [19:01]
ascii_field 571st regiment of cat reports for catuty! [19:02]
mircea_popescu Thing 1. We're trying to reduce bitcoind to a form where it's actually worth cutting trees to print it ; [19:02]
ascii_field ^ what asciilifeform wanted!! [19:02]
mircea_popescu Thing 2. We're trying to create an actually statically linked, weaponized bitcoind that's suitable for the pogo. [19:02]
ascii_field so he can write his. [19:02]
mircea_popescu Thing 3. We're trying to re-create a software management system that's based on sanity (=crypto). this mostly exists gratia alf & mod6 efforts, and it's called v. [19:03]
phf mircea_popescu: i was referring to those instances where it's ascii fielding objections from assorted people, not necessarily debates between you two [19:03]
mircea_popescu Thing 4. We're trying to create a proper (=crypto) communication system ; as part of this gpg was cut up and we're still barfing at the results. this is a huge task and if thee end product is reasonably well understood, the design's still widely open. [19:03]
mircea_popescu Thing 5. We're trying to create a sane os. This led to gentoo being cut open, libc being cut open, gcc being cut open, and we're still barfing at the results. I don't even want to think about it. [19:04]
mircea_popescu Thing 6. We're trying to create a sane computer (other than pogo). Part of this consideration is some in-principle fundamental research work into ternary to be maybe attached to Thing 3. [19:05]
mircea_popescu Thing 7. We're trying to create a pr core, which is roughly in the spot Thing 4 was a year ago, ie, when artifex got somehow married to it. [19:05]
ascii_field !seen artifexd [19:05]
mircea_popescu other than that there's other things (ie, a bitcoin game etc etc) but i got those. [19:05]
ascii_field ;;seen artifexd [19:05]
gribble artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is. [19:05]
mircea_popescu this about it ? [19:06]
ascii_field afaik [19:06]
shinohai Very succinct [19:06]
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mircea_popescu yeah, succint like 82 life sentences to run concurrently. [19:06]
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ascii_field 1-6 are actually subdirs on my hdd. [19:07]
ascii_field each. [19:07]
mircea_popescu alright. [19:07]
mircea_popescu and cardano is vaguely bolted into either 7 or 4. in fact the entire anthill got opened mostly through there. [19:07]
ascii_field aha. [19:08]
mircea_popescu basically far from ascii_field getting paid, i think the thing here is, s.nsa should be hiring. [19:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00054456 = 8.1684 BTC [+] [19:08]
* ascii_field falls down l0lling [19:08]
* ascii_field spins, like turtle [19:09]
phf we lost him [19:09]
mircea_popescu we pee on him to put him out ? [19:09]
ascii_field eh, me console is designed for this [19:09]
* ascii_field gets up [19:09]
* assbot gives voice to kakobrekla [19:10]
ascii_field kakobrekla no more finland ?? [19:10]
* Luke-Jr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [19:10]
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kakobrekla finland is a fallback [19:11]
ascii_field ah [19:11]
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mircea_popescu anjyway. while this... project is epicly delayed and way the fuck over budget, i am not particularly worried . [19:11]
ascii_field kakobrekla: 'Finlandia, Finlandia, sinne taas matkalla oli Iivana.' [19:12]
ascii_field (mega-classic, ) [19:12]
assbot Njet Molotoff lyrics + English translation ... ( ) [19:12]
kakobrekla lol [19:14]
mircea_popescu who is bobrikov [19:14]
kakobrekla some su dude sounds like. [19:14]
ascii_field viceroy in fi under late ru empire [19:14]
mircea_popescu o [19:15]
ascii_field plugged in 1904. [19:15]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:15]
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asciilifeform !up ascii_field [19:16]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:16]
ascii_field << ru ver. and link to (i think) original audio. [19:17]
assbot Нет, Молотов ... ( ) [19:17]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: supposing for a moment that the notion was a serious one, who should we be hiring ? [19:17]
ascii_field (and with what) [19:18]
mircea_popescu with stock. [19:18]
mircea_popescu adn who, i dunno. [19:18]
ascii_field and to what [19:19]
mircea_popescu take your pick of the items in there. [19:19]
mircea_popescu not like there's not work to do. [19:19]
ascii_field so far, other than pieces of #3, and the whole of #7, it's all things that sit still except when i push'em. [19:20]
mircea_popescu well we can't hire mod6 mostly because if we do the foundation ends. [19:21]
ascii_field (7 is black magic and i won't even come near it) [19:21]
ascii_field what does mod6 do for living anyway [19:22]
mircea_popescu same as you. [19:22]
ascii_field re? [19:22]
ascii_field hm [19:22]
mircea_popescu works in some mine. [19:22]
mircea_popescu except he also raises some kids. [19:22]
ascii_field ah in that sense [19:22]
ascii_field aha this i recall [19:22]
mircea_popescu and hunts! [19:22]
ascii_field and prolly other interesting things. [19:22]
thestringpuller mod6: has kids? [19:23]
thestringpuller news to me [19:23]
mircea_popescu iirc he also judges new stripper in a six county area. [19:23]
mircea_popescu maybe phf, but the dude's not even bothered to collect the pile of mushrooms he earned doing i don't recall what for eulora [19:24]
mircea_popescu ah, mac porting was it. [19:24]
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jurov qntra shares adistributed [19:28]
jurov !t m s.qntr [19:28]
assbot [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00022294 / 0.00023879 (7865 shares, 1.75 BTC) [19:28]
mircea_popescu in other news, [19:28]
assbot ... ( ) [19:28]
BingoBoingo Foodstamp culture: "I saw an episode of Bridezillas that she wanted to use EBT for her wedding cake. Except it was her friends card and it was not a store she was getting it from it was a lady baking out of her house and the baker lady was going to buy the stuff for the cake and like $700 in groceries as her 'payment'. They all got fines, the baker got shut down and the friend lost her ability to receive stamps and I think lost cu [19:29]
BingoBoingo stody of her kids to their dad because she had the kids on her case but because she was filmed letting her friend use the card they said she was neglecting to 'use state resources alloted for her kids' on her kids, so they opened a case against her and the judge let the kids say who they wanted to be with and it was dad. " [19:29]
mircea_popescu rape and microaggression. [19:31]
BingoBoingo srs [19:31]
BingoBoingo So pete still working on a PR setup? How does their compensation work? One share per tard tear? [19:33]
mircea_popescu i have nfi. [19:33]
mircea_popescu "with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain" << if the coolant bubbles you got serious problems. it's not supposed to do that. [19:35]
ascii_field mno [19:36]
ascii_field fluorinert boils [19:36]
ascii_field this was part of the design [19:36]
ascii_field (heat of phase change) [19:36]
mircea_popescu nuts [19:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00054309 = 18.1392 BTC [-] [19:36]
ascii_field somewhere north of 50c [19:36]
ascii_field hence the bubbles [19:37]
mircea_popescu check it out, "two phase collant", it's a thing [19:38]
ascii_field aha [19:38]
ascii_field big bux [19:38]
ascii_field iirc recently somebody opened a btc mine under f. [19:39]
ascii_field (or claimed to, at any rate) [19:39]
ascii_field << photo of c2 [19:40]
assbot Cooling system of Cray 2 super-computer - Stock Image T450/0126 - Science Photo Library ... ( ) [19:40]
ascii_field << 'waterfall' in upper centre of photo [19:42]
assbot ... ( ) [19:42]
ascii_field operating. [19:42]
ascii_field from which is pretty spiffy historical pile [19:43]
assbot Cray Faq Part 2: Tales from the crypto and other bar stories ... ( ) [19:43]
mircea_popescu and control. has "industry" "taken over" "farming" ? no, it has not, people still farm. except, people who farm (argentina) get to suck the cock of people who industry (romania). but otherwise, feudalism continues unimpeded both as a thing in itself in east asia and as a thing to look forward to, maybe one day [19:43]
mircea_popescu they develop it, in africa and venezuela etc. see also [19:43]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:06:20; ascii_field: PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken [19:43]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:05:36; trinque: takes over what? who cares if some poor guy still has an iPhone? [19:43]
assbot Bitcoin and the poor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:43]
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ascii_field linked site claims that the last known cray2 was not thrown out until '99. [19:45]
mircea_popescu << this, ftr, is deeply wrong. pluralism does not suffer because "mass markets". it would benefit from them, if the [people who were supposed to be the] elite weren't fucktards. [19:45]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:08:16; ascii_field: 'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.' [19:45]
mircea_popescu this is like saying "abundance makes lazy apes want to watch tv". guess what ? it doesn't have to! nobody forces you to misuse your freedom! [19:45]
ascii_field recall the meth thread ? [19:45]
mircea_popescu i do. [19:46]
ascii_field so then. [19:46]
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mircea_popescu so then what ? [19:46]
ascii_field they could all be erdos [19:46]
mircea_popescu all that discussion was about the mass. [19:46]
ascii_field if they wanted [19:46]
mircea_popescu no, they couldn't. [19:46]
mircea_popescu not ALL. there is no all. [19:46]
* assbot gives voice to mike_c [19:46]
ascii_field sure. then where did we get the retarded elite? [19:46]
mircea_popescu until and unless you come to terms with the simple fact that you're special, you'll be stuck trying to explain friends to me. [19:46]
ascii_field martians came and put them in? [19:47]
mircea_popescu i blame the parents. [19:47]
mircea_popescu (not for maleducation. for poor sexual hygiene. fucking all the roadkill and such.) [19:47]
mircea_popescu lemme find this ad, maybe i manage. [19:47]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:47]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [19:48]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:48]
ascii_field don't have the thread handy, but at one point i explained how computing is tricky because its very existence as its current thing - that is, vlsi - is predicated on mass uptake [19:48]
ascii_field and how this is the root of the sux [19:48]
mircea_popescu was. [19:49]
ascii_field still is, until mircea_popescu or i figure out how to make 100 cpus. [19:49]
mircea_popescu well i can't find it. anyway, fucktarded outdoor thing in ba, "siempre se vuelve al primer amor" trying to sell italian classes. depicts an ugly chick in flats holding a huge red heart. [19:50]
ascii_field or even 1000. [19:50]
mircea_popescu that stupid bitch didn't look like something dogs would fuck [19:50]
mircea_popescu yet these idiots think she's someone's first love. [19:50]
mircea_popescu stop fucking all the ugly inept women. that's how you get stunted kids. [19:50]
ascii_field hey a sack of potatoes with a hole augered in is prolly somebody's 1st luv [19:50]
mircea_popescu not a matter of "someone". [19:51]
mircea_popescu a matter that the top male of 1015 (ie, STRONG) fucked hotties and had good children. whereas the top male of 2015 (ie, SMART) fucks horsefaces and is happy for it. [19:51]
mircea_popescu that's the martians that put the chlorotic non-elites on earth. [19:51]
mircea_popescu go for the hot ones like you own their mothers. [19:52]
ascii_field not enough war. [19:52]
ascii_field (how else do you resolve the problem of there being 1000 takers to each) [19:52]
mircea_popescu ascii_field we can make 100 cpus TODAY, and on tech that didn't even exist in 1960. [19:52]
mircea_popescu this is exactly how bitcoin mining got started. [19:52]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: in all srsnes i'd like to know how. [19:53]
mircea_popescu so no, the problem is not an absent "mass market". the problem is that there's work to be done for future uncertain benefit. [19:53]
ascii_field teach me how to make 100 cpus. [19:53]
mircea_popescu umd will let you tack on 100 cpus to some prototype run they got, won't it ? [19:54]
ascii_field those ain't cpus [19:54]
mircea_popescu shut up. [19:54]
ascii_field they won't package or test or guarantee so much as 1 working unit. [19:54]
ascii_field and you can't package in a kitchen. [19:54]
ascii_field i tried. [19:54]
mircea_popescu and no, i wont bother the bitfury guy, or anyone actually involved in doing things with this inept nonsense. for the same reason i shouldn't have queried ben_vulpes yest. [19:54]
ascii_field (tried how? you can buy bare dies) [19:54]
mircea_popescu entertaining anal child resistences is a bad plan. [19:55]
mircea_popescu you know for a fact, incontrovertible and above your ability to contest, that you can do 100 cpus, and it doesn'rt even cost that much. [19:55]
mircea_popescu moving on. [19:55]
ascii_field also we don't need z80 for anything. [19:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.0005422 = 7.0757 BTC [-] {2} [19:56]
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ascii_field (show me where we can do a 486 or a dram of the time, for something like what the shared die folks charge.) [19:56]
mircea_popescu so i guess this can wait a few years then. [19:57]
ascii_field the base cost of doing any of it is only moving up. [19:58]
ascii_field esp. as the old 'secondhand' fabs fold. [19:58]
ascii_field recall the thread re: 'the middle dies' ? [19:58]
ascii_field << it [19:58]
assbot Logged on 13-06-2015 17:27:26; mircea_popescu: if you need anything that has to be made on something in the middle, make it now. [19:58]
ascii_field ^ was actually about this fab [19:59]
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mircea_popescu looky, if we miss the window to civilisation we'll have missed the window to civilisation, that's all. [20:01]
ascii_field would still rather not, no? [20:01]
mircea_popescu << and mcdonalds' existence has kept alive a great many people that belonged dead. and all this has some ~statistical~ influences. it is not relevant on a case by case basis and it can't be an excuse for you. [20:01]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:08:35; ascii_field: microshit's very existence has deformed thought processes of a great many people. [20:01]
ascii_field ftr it is my considered belief that if tmsr is sunk, it will be because it was unable to fab si. [20:02]
mircea_popescu i wouldn't, personally, give a rats ass either way. if yes, sure. if not, whatever, i have no problems riding a horse. [20:02]
ascii_field horse while enemy has gamma ray blaster. [20:02]
ascii_field in orbit. [20:02]
mircea_popescu eh nonsense. [20:03]
mircea_popescu i'm fucking "the enemy" ie some conclave of old fart's both daughters and occaisonally wife. always have. [20:03]
mircea_popescu i pointedly couldn't care less. [20:03]
ascii_field you might be fucking the wives of his dead skin cells [20:04]
ascii_field but i have nfi. [20:04]
mircea_popescu i keep getting sucked into discussing science fiction movie scripts with this guy. [20:04]
mircea_popescu i don't even like science fiction. [20:04]
mircea_popescu << the one that went "this works [because nobody's ever used it, like you know, burning man before it got populat]" ? [20:05]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:20:06; *: ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages" [20:05]
ascii_field the ones that don't reference items in the sea of c shit - work. [20:06]
mircea_popescu for now. [20:06]
ascii_field for ever. [20:06]
ascii_field that's what ansi cl means. [20:06]
mircea_popescu and once they become popular, they will BE the sea of lisp shit. [20:06]
mircea_popescu c worked in the 70s just fine, also. [20:06]
ascii_field common lisp did not exist in the 70s [20:06]
mircea_popescu the problem here is keeping the herd out of computing, nothing else. [20:07]
ascii_field it was actually an answer to the tower of babel which prevailed then. [20:07]
mircea_popescu and it continues to appear to work for as long as it fails to appear interesting. [20:07]
ascii_field a kind of 'trb cleanup' of its time [20:07]
mircea_popescu because it has no mechanisms of institutionalized opression of the median. [20:07]
ascii_field but yes, the machines were expensive and the room temp iq folks were kept out. [20:07]
mircea_popescu right [20:07]
ascii_field on other side of locked doors. [20:07]
mircea_popescu that accidental, happenstantial mechanism is crap. [20:07]
mircea_popescu originally worked for unix, also. [20:08]
* ascii_field happens to agree [20:08]
mircea_popescu so now you know why you must go stand on own, with one go. [20:08]
ascii_field not exactly [20:09]
mircea_popescu of course not, god forbid. [20:09]
ascii_field what i meant was, what does it mean, 'with one go' [20:10]
mircea_popescu that in the same go, as you understand one, you understand the other. they being the exact same thing. [20:11]
ascii_field i don't see the connection [20:13]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes whty is the painter with ebola chick wearing high heeled platforms ? [20:13]
mircea_popescu << the thing that has haunted alf for years now. [20:14]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:50:29; ascii_field: required reading for context: [20:14]
ascii_field aha. [20:14]
mircea_popescu same thing happens to me, i get various bits i end up keeping for a long time. [20:14]
ascii_field see also my observation about being dumber than a chicken. [20:14]
mircea_popescu 1023 more of you , we could almost have a cpu. [20:16]
ascii_field aha. [20:16]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [20:18]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [20:19]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [20:19]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: i don't think it is 'emo' to question my priorities when, after giving away my work to apparent applause for a year, i mention starving and audience suggests 'web dev' [20:20]
ascii_field audience collectively worth what, $1B ? [20:20]
ascii_field to me 'web dev' means 'work 17y.o. does' and is exactly equivalent to 'you are worth your weight in pork' [20:21]
mircea_popescu this is entirely besides the point. how you organise your own affairs is your own call. b-a is an equity play : you do things ; when and if they bring money in, you can have money ; when and if they bring chicks in, you can have chicks. that's how equity plays work : you get a claim to whatever future brings. [20:21]
ascii_field no argument [20:22]
mircea_popescu i understand that salaried work is both more common and more convenient, but i have personally no patience for salary types, and more importantly, there's no room in b-a for such, because it's not a fucking ewmpire, it's a republic, [20:22]
mircea_popescu and in the early revolutionary phases at that. [20:22]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: wasn't speaking of 'salary types' [20:22]
ascii_field what did you pay that plumber in anyway [20:23]
ascii_field chocolate ? [20:23]
mircea_popescu which plumber ? [20:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22216 @ 0.00054456 = 12.0979 BTC [+] [20:23]
ascii_field the fella with the angle grinder [20:23]
mircea_popescu im either doing too many things at once or whatever. who ? link ? what ? [20:23]
ascii_field the hand-held one [20:24]
mircea_popescu oh, i don't recall, 200 pesos for the labour or something it was [20:24]
ascii_field [20:24]
assbot Logged on 13-10-2015 21:01:03; mircea_popescu: ok this is the most insane thing i ever saw. so plumber, looks like he escaped comicon or something, dorkiest dude ever. but THEN he proceeds to CUT THROUGH METAL PLATE FREEHAND [20:24]
ascii_field that one [20:24]
ascii_field just random example [20:24]
mircea_popescu right. ~200 pesos. [20:24]
ascii_field aha. fella did something that needed doing [20:25]
ascii_field does that make him 'salary type' ? [20:25]
mircea_popescu yes. [20:25]
mircea_popescu inasmuch as he doesn't get to put his name on the thing. [20:25]
ascii_field but i thought mircea_popescu didn't care for those [20:25]
mircea_popescu i don;t. [20:25]
ascii_field ought to have used a republic plumber [20:25]
mircea_popescu which is why if he came to have a chat with me i'd have the girls send him off. [20:25]
ascii_field who works for glory? [20:25]
mircea_popescu but i'm not fucking insane. [20:25]
mircea_popescu nor do i hire plumbers to do the code nor do i hire usian kids to do my plumbing. [20:26]
ascii_field what am i missing here [20:26]
mircea_popescu you are stubbornly missing here that what you'd like the world to be does not matter one whit, and whatever way you dress that masturbation up doesn't change its masturbatory content. [20:26]
mircea_popescu it's either or, pick one or the other and enough with it already. [20:26]
mircea_popescu you don't want to do webwork, don't. do not expect any sort of actual pay. [20:27]
ascii_field this might be asking the mega-s33krit, but what kind of people ~does~ mircea_popescu use to, e.g., maintain mircea_popescucoin ? [20:27]
mircea_popescu you don't want to be in start-ups, don't. do not expect you get to open your mouth. [20:27]
mircea_popescu either way, pick one live with it. [20:27]
ascii_field mircea_popescu is, i think, accustomed to smashing idiots' skulls and instinctively reaches for the designated hammer. but i'm not an idiot and don't expect things. [20:27]
mircea_popescu most people live with a mix of the two, which is fine, pick a mix you like and stick to it. [20:28]
mircea_popescu well so then! [20:28]
* ascii_field picked. [20:28]
mircea_popescu so then what is teh problem! [20:29]
ascii_field none afaik. [20:29]
ascii_field but wanted to take a proper shit into the record [20:29]
ascii_field in case anyone is later confused. [20:29]
* mircea_popescu thumbsup [20:29]
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ascii_field mainly i gotta live out the oath that i swore. [20:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054456 = 16.5546 BTC [+] [20:41]
mircea_popescu << this is almost a certainty. [20:42]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 20:59:46; trinque: could very well be that the mechanism by which a central govt steals from a large population via fiat monetary systems got us the CPUs we use today far earlier than they'd have been had without the theft [20:42]
mircea_popescu the russians got steel plants faster with stalin then they'd have without. [20:42]
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kakobrekla doenst this apply to pretty much everything govt made [20:45]
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kakobrekla the bad and the ugly [20:45]
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shinohai !up Cristina [20:47]
* assbot gives voice to Cristina [20:47]
shinohai vez eso? lo puedo hacer porque *ya he verifcado* [20:47]
Cristina !up [20:48]
Cristina ya me deja jeje [20:48]
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shinohai The things I go through ... [20:48]
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shinohai If Cristina has done anything, she has proved to me that winblowze is never going to be the correct tool for anything related to gpg [20:52]
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BingoBoingo !up Cristina [20:58]
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mircea_popescu this wasn't terribly controversial shinohai. howdja meet her anyway. [20:59]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla yeah. baltimore'd have never had such good crime without govt. [21:00]
Cristina +BingoBoingo nice [21:01]
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shinohai mircea_popescu: met her trollin about ... found out about camwork, decided to ask her to look into your offer. [21:01]
shinohai jugs for all ! [21:01]
mircea_popescu lol [21:01]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency eur [21:04]
gribble Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 356.5332, vol: 60091.75104089 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 363.39999, vol: 466.47868 | CampBX BTCEUR last: 358.371, vol: 16.12998791 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 381.246816, vol: 86760.53440000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 355.13, vol: 19397.1056119 | Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 350.0, vol: 246.96771636 | Volume-weighted last average: 369.220833122 [21:04]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [21:04]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 388.0, vol: 60074.75104089 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.23, vol: 33094.06971 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 387.1, vol: 157816.51835699 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 390.0, vol: 16.12998791 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.261816, vol: 86711.68480000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 380.0, vol: 193.92428549 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 380.94, vol: 246.96771636 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [21:04]
mircea_popescu i was like... wtf it moved 10% within two queries ? [21:05]
mircea_popescu that euro thing always throws me. [21:05]
kakobrekla < Tales from the crypto [21:08]
kakobrekla ** This section not available for public distribution. ** [21:08]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 22:42:27; ascii_field: from which is pretty spiffy historical pile [21:08]
kakobrekla how great. [21:08]
shinohai !s android 2fa vulnerabilities [21:10]
assbot 0 results for 'android 2fa vulnerabilities' : [21:10]
shinohai o rly [21:10]
mod6 <+ascii_field> what does mod6 do for living anyway << professional shit shoveler [21:13]
mod6 <+thestringpuller> news to me << they're the gf's [21:14]
mod6 had to find a new mine, place in tower of fascism was bought, outsourced all jobs to bangladesh or some place. [21:15]
mod6 first day was last friday. so been a bit swamped since then. [21:15]
shinohai Thank you, come again! [21:15]
mod6 exactly. lol [21:15]
shinohai ^_______________^ [21:15]
BingoBoingo State of Aztlan: "They stopped the bomb powder. We got our own weed, it's damn near legal out here. The only thing the Mexicans got to push is this and they pushing it hard." [21:16]
assbot Is Crystal Meth the New Crack Cocaine? | The Fix ... ( ) [21:16]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> iirc he also judges new stripper in a six county area. << my speciality [21:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00054152 = 7.1751 BTC [-] [21:21]
mod6 i would like to help out with s.nsa. but yeah, right now foundation stuff is about all i can handle outside of mines. once I don't need the mines any longer, then I'll have some extra time perhaps. [21:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3786 @ 0.0005386 = 2.0391 BTC [-] [21:22]
shinohai I got plenty of time but I'm not good at anything. [21:22]
mod6 that's not true. you've been doing some awesome testing for me at the drop of a hat. a lot of this stuff just takes time to dig into it, etc. [21:26]
mod6 and rome wasn't built in a day. or 5 years or whatever. takes time. [21:27]
mod6 but believe me, there's nothing more than I want to do than work on this stuff all day. just not quite there yet. [21:27]
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hanbot ascii_field should you ever actually find yourself on the brink of starvation put whoever is doing your cooking in touch with me. i am well acquainted with forced frugality. it happens, and while your merits might not prevent it from grabbing at your feet, they can keep you from succumbing. [21:33]
mircea_popescu had to find a new mine, place in tower of fascism was bought, outsourced all jobs to bangladesh or some place. <<< seems alf's going through exactly the same. [21:33]
mircea_popescu i must confess buffett sold me on his "hay mas futuro por norteamerica" or whatever it was. [21:34]
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BingoBoingo Who knew sobriety was such big bsns, fuck AngloLandia is broken [21:41]
assbot Lifestyles of the Rich and Sober | The Fix ... ( ) [21:41]
BingoBoingo "If the idea of entering a facility, even a luxury one, is too much to bear, you can always follow the lead of true ballers who detox in style at luxury suites at Claridge’s in London or Trump Tower in NYC to the tune of about $3,000 per night. For the roughly week-long experience, they’ll then hire an on-call doctor to administer a detox program and medication (an estimated $15,000 per week), a 24-hour nurse to facilitate it [21:42]
BingoBoingo (roughly $3,500 per week), and a round-the-clock sober companion to oversee the entire operation (approximately $10,000 per week). The final total for a week of the most luxurious stint of detox known to man? Around $50,000. Room service not included." [21:42]
* BingoBoingo needs to get a pet bear [21:42]
mod6 mircea_popescu: yeah, they annouced the news of the acquisition on the 2nd of october, had a new deal closed by the 17th. was glad to find something new anyway, was really tired of working at the old place. [21:44]
mircea_popescu good for you then [21:44]
mod6 certainly was a good thing to get back to work so quick. [21:45]
mod6 got more vacation days and a raise. [21:46]
mircea_popescu what do you do there, sysadmin like ? [21:47]
mod6 software development - mostly java stuff. [21:47]
* mod6 ducks [21:47]
mircea_popescu lol [21:47]
mircea_popescu well at least it';s not webdev right ? [21:48]
mod6 exactly. [21:48]
mod6 no, this role I'm workin on a data access layer. [21:48]
mod6 buncha hibrernate bullshit [21:48]
mod6 but I don't work in these mines for the thrill of victory, i do it for the cash. [21:48]
mircea_popescu aha. [21:49]
* felipelalli (~felipelal@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:49]
mod6 I pretty much keep my head down, work hard. I don't get emotionally invested in the mines. [21:49]
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* felipelalli (~felipelal@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:49]
mod6 when I was younger I used to be a lot more idealistic about my job... now, couldn't care less as long as the money is wired on a regular basis. haha. [21:50]
mod6 bitcoin is the thing i care about. [21:51]
mod6 i put up with all that bullshit all day every day so I can keep the lights on and do my real job: the foundation :] [21:51]
trinque I'm not much concerned with dignity at the end of the world. [21:51]
mircea_popescu just as long as the world ends, eh. [21:52]
trinque yes sir [21:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12814 @ 0.0005386 = 6.9016 BTC [-] [21:53]
mod6 well, to some extent for me I have to be able to be honest and have integrity in my job or I wouldn't respect myself in the morning. [21:53]
* Cristina has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client) [21:53]
trinque mod6: I mean fretting about doing java, webdev, or pole dancing [21:53]
mod6 *nod* [21:53]
mircea_popescu pole dancing is actually great for you. [21:53]
mircea_popescu almost as good as walking. [21:53]
mod6 I'm just sayin, some guys are cool with being fucking scammers. Not me. [21:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28686 @ 0.00053738 = 15.4153 BTC [-] {2} [21:54]
mod6 Yup, nothin wrong with shakin' it for cash. That's honest. [21:54]
mod6 Ripping people off for vaporware or whatever other bullshit isn't. [21:54]
mod6 I guess, another factor for me is doing manual labor. I used to cut down trees from when I was about 10 to 18. And very quickly in a job like that you learn the value of the earned dollar. [21:55]
mod6 So, I'd hate to do webdevelopment or whatever, but it sure beats humping logs all day. [21:56]
mircea_popescu a lumberjack ?! [21:56]
trinque deedbot-'s blockchain has caught up thanks to mircea_popescu's node [21:56]
mod6 And sure, I liked cutting down trees, good exercise, decent guys to work with, but fuck, that shit wears on you. [21:56]
mod6 Yep. My good buddy's dad has a tree care company. My old man set me up with a job working with them when I was like 10, big enough to haul sticks and roll logs. [21:57]
mircea_popescu "i cut down trees, i wear high heels" now resounding in mp residence [21:58]
mod6 haha [21:58]
mod6 Only thing I really regret about it is not wearing ear protection back then. [21:58]
mircea_popescu srsly. [21:59]
* hanbot has quit (Excess Flood) [21:59]
mod6 When I wasn't cutting down trees, I would blow up an air matress and float down this creek that ran through a private golf course. Where I would fish the golf balls out of the creek, shine 'em up and sell 'em back to the guys who just hit 'em in there for like $0.25 per ball. [22:01]
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mod6 always was a way to make money. [22:01]
mircea_popescu not bad. [22:02]
mod6 probably gave that up when I was about 13 though. [22:02]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [22:02]
mircea_popescu at some point at that age i used to go trouting in this stream. the trout likes to sit under the rock sort-of mid evening, you can catch it with your hands just loop either end in. [22:03]
mod6 yeah! never had to ask my folks for a nickle after I was 10. [22:03]
mod6 ah! cool. [22:03]
mircea_popescu very much like picking up women, actually. [22:04]
mod6 wrangle 'em up :] [22:04]
mircea_popescu always suspected the trout doesn't actually mind being caught. [22:04]
mircea_popescu only starts squirming once out of the water. [22:05]
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mod6 !up ascii_field [22:06]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [22:06]
BingoBoingo Around here similar hand fishing arts exist, but usually they focus on the catfish Basically get it to swallow your hand and try to grab the gill plates as you pull your hand up [22:06]
mod6 they're called "noodlers" right BingoBoingo? [22:06]
BingoBoingo yes [22:06]
ascii_field << 90+% rent [22:07]
assbot Logged on 06-11-2015 00:31:57; hanbot: ascii_field should you ever actually find yourself on the brink of starvation put whoever is doing your cooking in touch with me. i am well acquainted with forced frugality. it happens, and while your merits might not prevent it from grabbing at your feet, they can keep you from succumbing. [22:07]
mircea_popescu in other news, johnny cash is fucking great. [22:07]
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mod6 very much so. only framed picture I've got is of Johnny Cash. [22:08]
mircea_popescu aged splendidly too. im not even sure if his best work isn't his last album [22:08]
mircea_popescu how many bands can say this ? [22:08]
mircea_popescu sure, say aerosmith has the same longevity. but gimme a break with the bubblepop crap they been doing for mtv this side of the mllenium. [22:09]
mod6 yah, usually it's a big early career, and then a slow decline. he just kept making great, if not even better, music. [22:09]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Good Afternoon ISIS - [22:09]
mod6 yeah. steven tyler did not age well. i saw a picture of him and he looks like a chinese woman [22:09]
mircea_popescu i think he always was a chinese woman. [22:09]
mircea_popescu he certainly did enough dope for one. [22:10]
mod6 speaking of which, Axl Rose looks really bad too. haha [22:10]
mod6 "Welcome to the bakery, we've got cakes and pies..." [22:10]
mircea_popescu kinda trucker like. [22:11]
assbot ... ( ) [22:11]
mike_c [22:12]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 21:35:29; ascii_field: from this point on i will have to ignore everything else, until rollout. [22:12]
mike_c Amen!! [22:12]
mod6 mircea_popescu: haha [22:12]
mike_c let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already [22:12]
mod6 sounds good to me. [22:13]
mircea_popescu not a bad plan. [22:13]
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jurov ascii_field: electrum-server depends on bitcoin having "txindex" which 0.5.4 not sure if has, 0.7 had and the el. patch was not heavy [22:14]
jurov no patch needed since 0.8 [22:15]
mod6 !up ascii_field [22:15]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [22:15]
ascii_field << wrong guess [22:15]
assbot Logged on 06-11-2015 00:32:40; mircea_popescu: had to find a new mine, place in tower of fascism was bought, outsourced all jobs to bangladesh or some place. <<< seems alf's going through exactly the same. [22:15]
ascii_field was 'startup' [22:16]
ascii_field with hardware. [22:16]
mircea_popescu ah ok. [22:16]
mircea_popescu you really shouldn't stack the same play. if the wife's a lascivious blonde don't get ANOTHER one for a mistress. get a spirtous brunette sarah silverman sorta chick. [22:16]
mircea_popescu etc. [22:17]
ascii_field wot went, so no choice [22:17]
ascii_field only other option was- usg [22:18]
ascii_field bbl [22:18]
* ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:18]
mircea_popescu "But if Echo was no longer a projection, she was still a reflection. Echo, like all women, offered her man a peek inside his soul, all he had to do look: What kind of a man am I, that attracts this kind of woman? What kind of a man am I that attracts the kind of woman who only likes me for how I look? Despite how I treat her? What kind of a man am I that only attracts the kind of women who like me for X? Is it b [22:21]
mircea_popescu ecause there is nothing else of value inside me except X? But he was never taught to ask questions like this. In fact, he was taught never to ask questions like that. What kind of a man attracts a woman who can only echo him? There must be a name for that kind of person, and he already had it." [22:21]
mircea_popescu lol, tlp trying to be feminist by making men as dumb as women. [22:21]
mircea_popescu orly, neurosis is the answer ? i had no idea anyone even asked the question! [22:21]
mircea_popescu How do you make a child know himself? You surround him with mirrors. "This is what everyone else sees when you do what you do. This is who everyone thinks you are." <<< mno, that's how you make a child become a girl. [22:23]
mircea_popescu "Lesson one at the academia should be the importance of separating vocation from avocation, as character actor Fred Thompson and electrical contractor Benjamin Franklin both understood." [22:36]
mircea_popescu "When we see a welfare mom we assume she can't find work, but when we see a hipster we become infuriated because we assume he doesn't want to work but could easily do so-- on account of the fact that he can speak well-- that he went to college. But now suddenly we're all shocked: to the economy, the English grad is just as superfluous as the disenfranchised welfare mom in the hood-- the college education is just as ir [22:44]
mircea_popescu relevant as the skin color. Not irrelevant for now, not irrelevant "until the economy improves"-- irrelevant forever. The economy doesn't care about intelligence, at all, it doesn't care what you know, merely what you can produce for it. The only thing the English grad is "qualified" for in this economy is the very things s/he is already doing: coffeehouse agitator, Trader Joe's associate, Apple customer ............ [22:44]
mircea_popescu ...................................... and spouse of a capitalist. [22:44]
mircea_popescu Of course I'm not happy about this, I like smart people, but that's the new reality. There was a time where women went to college to get an MRS degree, and I am telling you that that time is today, there is nothing else of value in there. Sure, some college women go on to become doctors and CEOs, and some go on to become child pornographers and Salon writers, none of those things have anything to do with what happene [22:44]
mircea_popescu d in college. If you are going to college to get an education and not to meet guys, you are insane, literally insane, delusional, in reality one is never going to happen and the other is going to happen anyway, and you could have gotten both for free at a bookstore. Worked for me. The only question for the future single mom is whether it's worth $XXXXXX a year to meet guys, and the answer is of course it's not, even [22:44]
mircea_popescu nightclubs let ladies in for free." [22:44]
mircea_popescu win. [22:44]
* hanbot has quit (Excess Flood) [22:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50214 @ 0.00053536 = 26.8826 BTC [-] [22:56]
mircea_popescu aaannd... "if we had a system of healthcare in which doctors were paid the exact same regardless of diagnosis or severity, then there'd be little attention paid to "correct" diagnosis, all of our epidemiological data would be totally invalid, and the number one drug in America would be Xanax. "Wait, isn't that the situation now?" Huh, nailed it." [23:16]
mircea_popescu "why is all us epidemiological data null and void ?" "because us doctors a) have to write down a diagnosis and b) are paid the same no matter what is is". [23:17]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [23:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10007 @ 0.00053447 = 5.3484 BTC [-] [23:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38643 @ 0.00053447 = 20.6535 BTC [-] [23:32]
Category: Logs
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3 Responses

  1. Tyrone White`s avatar
    Tyrone White 
    Tuesday, 22 June 2021

    What's up to all

  2. Mircea Popescu`s avatar
    Mircea Popescu 
    Tuesday, 22 June 2021

    You're not fooling anyone, you know.

  1. [...] perfect, they'll believe the amulets saved them and hurray for the new state religion. How's reality to ever get in the way ? [↩]Alternatively, "Charlotte Hilton Andersen has been a health and [...]

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