Forum logs for 04 Nov 2013

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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jurov	the correct one, and the others are degenerate rolls eyes	[00:12]
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mircea_popescu	jurov im super cereal.	[00:13]
nubbins`	i'm curious to know what your description of my system would be	[00:14]
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jurov	"lurk moar"	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	he was asking you neh ?	[00:17]
nubbins`	nope, that was directed towards you	[00:17]
nubbins`	you can't claim to know a man's mind and not expect him to ask you to elaborate	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	ah. well i wouldn't know "your" system. what you've written so far is coherent with naive nominalism, ie the ideology of all youths. occam requires it be described as such.	[00:18]
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mircea_popescu	(naive nominalism is the view that convention enacts existence, and thus forumers are "ceo"s and their harebrained schemes "companies")	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	that aside, there aren't really enough points given explicitly to make much of a call.	[00:21]
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nubbins`	and thus, random bozos are "artists"?	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	if you call them that.	[00:23]
nubbins`	if the random bozo creates something that i like, what else would i call him?	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	but there's a difference between calling a dude a nigger for convenience, as the shortest word available,	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	and calling a dude a nigger for racism.	[00:24]
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nubbins`	i dunno, man. maybe i'm applying too much of my interpretation of your "system" into your words, but it seems like you're flat-out stating that it's not art unless someone in a position of power or influence over the artist decrees it to be so	[00:27]
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mircea_popescu	no, i am flat out stating that.	[00:27]
nubbins`	and i find such a stance so bizarre that i'm not even sure where to begin picking it apart	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	i know.	[00:28]
nubbins`	about five years ago, i moved into an apartment and found a large piece of wall panelling with a picture painted on the back side of it. it's currently gracing the wall of my living room.	[00:29]
nubbins`	no name, no identifying marks whatsoever, no way for me to ever find out who made it or to contact them in any way	[00:29]
nubbins`	to propose that i hold any position relative to its creator, above or below, is simply nonsense	[00:30]
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nubbins`	and yet, there it sits on my wall	[00:30]
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nubbins`	unequivocally and inarguably a work of art	[00:30]
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mircea_popescu	"unequivocally and inarguably a work of art" only in the republic of one constructed by your own living room, of which you are president.	[00:31]
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nubbins`	YES	[00:31]
nubbins`	my fucking point exactly	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	why do you expect solipsism to be considered by others ?	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	your problem, not apt to be brought to the forum.	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, you may perhaps in time come to own a miniature of the eiffel tower, which you may emplace on your commode,	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	or in your rectum.	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	it'd be "the eiffel tower of my commode", but only inasmuch as you are concerned.	[00:33]
nubbins`	sure	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	it's not germane to call it "the eiffel tower" in conversation.	[00:33]
nubbins`	well, you're the one bringing definite articles into play	[00:34]
nubbins`	it's not THE art on my walls, it's A piece of art	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	yes, because i am the one discussing art,	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	not whatever irreelvant stuff you're personally dreaming up all for yourself.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	the eiffel tower on yoru commode is not a piece of eiffel towers.	[00:34]
nubbins`	everything is irrelevant but the opinion of the observer	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	it has literally nothing to do with the eiffel tower.	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	no.	[00:35]
nubbins`	yes.	[00:35]
nubbins`	universally, no	[00:35]
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mircea_popescu	well so there you have it.	[00:35]
nubbins`	but as a matter of determining whether it's art, yes	[00:35]
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mircea_popescu	there are qualifications needed to be an observer. you don't become an observer of the battle of thermopylae just by stating yourself as an observer	[00:35]
nubbins`	oh, you most certainly do	[00:35]
nubbins`	an observer needs no qualifications beyond the ability to observe	[00:36]
nubbins`	the validity of their observations can certainly be debated	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	this may be the best stating of the naive nominalism discussed above.	[00:36]
nubbins`	just as the validity of what my opinion of art is can be debated	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	you presume youy have the faculty to observe.	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	this presumption is wholly unsubstantiated.	[00:36]
nubbins`	art doesn't exist in a vacuum	[00:37]
dexX7	observer? http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mircea-popescu-gpl-3.jpg	[00:37]
nubbins`	you touched on this when you said it was inert	[00:37]
nubbins`	but that's just another way of questioning whether an event happens if there is no observer	[00:38]
nubbins`	trees falling, noises being made, etc	[00:38]
nubbins`	and that's fair in the sense that art is some sort of schrodinger's cat type thing	[00:38]
nubbins`	where it's neither art nor not-art until someone looks at it	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	nah, see, the equivocation at work here is that the requirements for being an observer in the foresrt with a falling tree are very low	[00:39]
nubbins`	but the difference here is that all can agree on whether or not a cat is dead	[00:39]
nubbins`	because that's quantifiable	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	one can't turn arround and expect all situations have equally low bars	[00:39]
nubbins`	none can agree on whether or not X is art	[00:39]
nubbins`	because it's simply not quantifiable	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 jus' me an' my hat.	[00:39]
nubbins`	how many arts is Starry Night? how many arts is Fountain?	[00:40]
dexX7	https://www.google.com/search?q=fringe+observer but i'm sure you know ;)	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 whassat ?	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` i dunno what cats have to do with this. is it an internet thing ?	[00:41]
dexX7	fringe is a us tv series	[00:41]
nubbins`	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat	[00:42]
nubbins`	due to quantum physics gibberish, the cat is neither dead nor alive until observed	[00:42]
nubbins`	the natural extrapolation of your argument is that you can walk up to a woman weeping at the beauty of a painting, or of a spoken word, and politely inform her that what she has observed is, in fact, not art	[00:43]
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nubbins`	but the very fact that she weeps implies that she is having a strong emotional response to it	[00:43]
nubbins`	which in turn implies that she	[00:44]
nubbins`	oh fuck i smell smoke hold on	[00:44]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` you could slap her, or kidnap her to the same strong emotional response	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	"what literature pays best ?" "ransom notes"	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	more's the point : your example is counterfactual. i would never talk to some anodyne serf woman,	[00:48]
nubbins`	and there are those who would argue that such a kidnapping is "performance art"	[00:48]
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mircea_popescu	you might as well propose the cancer walk in the front door one day and begin jacking off.	[00:48]
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nubbins`	i disagree, but my disagreement merely illustrates my point	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	"jacking off" ?! it has no penis.	[00:49]
nubbins`	i'm merely offering the simplest explanation for the fact that there are so many things which some people call art and other people don't	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, the miscasting as art as "that which yields emotional response" is roughly the reason trolling has become such a big deal culturally.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` yes, but your explanation requires people be equal and interchangeable, which is beyond naive.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	you might as well offer an explanation of art for spherical chickens that live in vacuums.	[00:51]
nubbins`	your explanation requires that some higher power declares X to be art and Y to be not-art	[00:51]
nubbins`	which is pretty lelly	[00:51]
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nubbins`	suppose person X says "this sculpture i've commissioned is art" and person Y says "nay, you are my subject, and i declare it to be not-art"	[00:52]
nubbins`	well, obviously person Z (X and Y's superior) should be the REAL person to ask, right?	[00:53]
nubbins`	and so on and so on	[00:53]
nubbins`	and you arrive at the conclusion that art is declared by edict from god	[00:53]
nubbins`	or, y'know, occam's razor. it's art if i think it's art.	[00:54]
nubbins`	the obvious implication is that the words "to me" are inserted between "art" and "if"	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	except no one cares about any "to me" sentence. they're voiceless.	[00:55]
nubbins`	because there's no other way to quantify it, and if you can't quantify things, you certainly can't classify them	[00:55]
nubbins`	sure, but what does that change?	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	looky, this trick where you go "mpex is too hard, i don;'t understand it ; therefore we must all glbse because there's no other way to do it" isn't logically sound.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	it is the avatar of youth, but so are many other illogical topoi	[00:56]
nubbins`	someone says a piss pot "is art to me". i don't care, because whether it's art to them has no bearing on whether it's art to me	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	the "to me" approach is unsound. this disqualifies it, perpetually and definitively.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	the remainder is the "to whom ?" approach, which reduces to social hierarchy.	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	no problem here.	[00:57]
nubbins`	art acts on people. without "to me", it does not exist	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	you presume all action is with the voluntary subjection fo the subject	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	this may be true, but the subjection needn't be conscious.	[00:57]
nubbins`	agreed	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	you don't discuss surgery in terms of the subjective impressions of patients. a similar discussion of any other craft is similarly out of place.	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	obviously the surgeons are surgeons by decree rather than because "people" feel surgeonized by them	[00:58]
nubbins`	surgery definitely falls into the realm of the quantifiable.	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	only in the minds of people who have no idea what it is.	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	in point of fact it's about as vague as art.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	which is why malpraxis is such a mess.	[00:59]
nubbins`	"you're cured if i say you're cured"	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[00:59]
nubbins`	"it's art if i tell you it's art"	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	if and only if, when and only when.	[00:59]
nubbins`	"i'm cured if my condition is gone"	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	does the oncology patient go "all is well doc, i feel cured" ?	[01:00]
nubbins`	"it's art if i say it's art"	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	no, they go o please divine my fortunes, good master.	[01:00]
nubbins`	"cured" has nothing to do with feeling	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	it's quite a case of "you're cured if and when i say you're cured".	[01:00]
nubbins`	art has much to do with it	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	with feeling, perhaps. with conscious feeling rarely.	[01:00]
nubbins`	hmm	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	when i say "it's art because X feels Y" i may be right. when you say "it's art because I feel Y" you're certain to be wrong.	[01:01]
nubbins`	mp says it's art because nubbins wept, vs nubbins says it's art because nubbins wept	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	to be formal,	[01:02]
nubbins`	same conclusion, different route	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	mp said it's art, and it makes nubbins weep, vs nubbins thinks it;'s art because that's why he thinks he wept	[01:03]
nubbins`	...	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	these are not the same. and for that matter the latter's logically unsound.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	(in nubbins' instance, not in the general form)	[01:04]
nubbins`	you changed your example a bit there	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	how ?	[01:04]
nubbins`	you went from "because x feels y" to "and x feels y"	[01:04]
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nubbins`	mp said it's art because it makes nubbins weep, or mp said it's art and it makes nubbins weep?	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	there is no because in the correct statement. in fact, we can judge how good a nubbins you are by how adequately you weep when art is presented	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	NOT the other way around, judge art by how it "makes" you weep or not.	[01:05]
nubbins`	well, obviously it's not the art but nubbins himself that is the cause of the weeping	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[01:06]
nubbins`	but let's not get tangled up	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	this naive "man at center of everything" goes well with the naive nominalism, but it's quite as nutty.	[01:06]
nubbins`	let's examine "mp said it's art"	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	ok.	[01:07]
nubbins`	presumably mp has criteria?	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	none of your business as they may be,.	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	presumably he does.	[01:07]
nubbins`	sure. nevertheless, we can presume that he does	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	yea.	[01:07]
nubbins`	we can also presume that nubbins also has criteria	[01:07]
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mircea_popescu	why ?	[01:07]
nubbins`	as a facile counterpoint, why not?	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	because it's not only facile, but wrong.	[01:08]
nubbins`	surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one?	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	mp is one of the lords. he makes art be. of course we can presume anything.	[01:08]
nubbins`	ahahaha	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	nubbins is no such lord. we're going to have to explain why we presume.	[01:08]
nubbins`	it's art by holy edict!	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	that's the point of the article.	[01:08]
nubbins`	you're a complicated man	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	surely there must be something that makes mp a good judge and nubbins a poor one? << this implies that perhaps nubbins could move upwards in society, and contains implicit an equivalency of substance between the two. this isn't an accepted point between us.	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	so if it's true, you'll have to prove it.	[01:09]
nubbins`	^ this implies that there's a ladder we're both on and you're above me on it	[01:10]
nubbins`	so if it's true, you'll have to prove it.	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	well not you and me personally	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	but the icons we're discussing	[01:10]
nubbins`	any two people	[01:10]
nubbins`	sure	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	i have to prove naught. i just make the art be art.	[01:10]
nubbins`	so you pop into someone's house, point to a painting, and say "actually that's not art at all", and thus it was never art	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	how would mp and nubbins socially interract ?	[01:12]
nubbins`	i'm not sure we would	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	i pop into someone's house by the intermediate agency of his wife which is now my slave	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	and she throws out all their old shit cause now she knows better.	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	"you know what ? my old junk wasn't art at all"	[01:13]
nubbins`	that could happen without any outside influence	[01:13]
nubbins`	and indeed it does, all the fucking time	[01:13]
nubbins`	in fact, it even happens in the other direction!	[01:14]
nubbins`	"hey, y'know, this album is actually pretty good"	[01:14]
nubbins`	"this drawing has really grown on me"	[01:14]
mircea_popescu	but this has little to do. you were discussing a particular application of the theory, with what i took as a view to reduce it to absurd.	[01:14]
nubbins`	everything is absurd.	[01:14]
mircea_popescu	i've shown the approach not to really work, we can move on	[01:14]
nubbins`	of course, absurdity is a spectrum	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[01:15]
nubbins`	the entire sphere of art rests squarely on the more	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	the curse of this particular equalitarian-nominalism ogre is that it can't really make stateemnts.	[01:15]
nubbins`	"absurd" end of that spectrum	[01:16]
nubbins`	well, obviously, if you take my view, all art is a bit of a beat-off	[01:16]
nubbins`	an absurd, senseless beat-off	[01:16]
nubbins`	if one chooses to make himself an authority in such an arena, well, so be it	[01:18]
pankkake	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322809.msg3474594#msg3474594 john k's not dead	[01:18]
ozbot	Where's John K?	[01:18]
nubbins`	but he deceives himself if he thinks he can avoid becoming part of the beat-off	[01:18]
nubbins`	after all, what's a bigger beat-off than "i'm the guy who sez what's art and what's not"?	[01:19]
nubbins`	it's enough to make your sides ache.	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	you know that seinfeld episode when george is pitching to the network nubbins ?	[01:20]
nubbins`	vague recollection, specifics are lost in the haze	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	"so what's this idea ?" "it's nothing" "Then why am I watching it ?" "because it's on tv" "not yet."	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	that's it right there. i'm the guy who sez.	[01:21]
nubbins`	not the best analogy	[01:21]
nubbins`	tv has gatekeepers	[01:22]
nubbins`	you wanna air a tv show, you need the permission of your master	[01:22]
nubbins`	you wanna paint something or write a song, you're limited only by your own level of ambition	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	ah, and "art" is free,	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	you just put it on etsy ?	[01:22]
nubbins`	etsy has listing fees ;)	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	but this sort of drawer novel, as it was known, doesn't exist in the sense of art.	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	it exists in the sense of masturbation, or w/e the author does in his privacy.	[01:23]
nubbins`	so it's art if it reaches an audience of a certain size	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	think of an old painting being discovered in a stahs. what is the question first and foremost asked ? is it something as to the paionting itself or is it as to the pedigree of the owner ?	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	nobody goes "i found a 500 year old kinda cool painting"	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	it only matters once it becomes "an old da vinci has been discovered"	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	audience has nothing to do with it. this is wholly a medieval-inspired problem of probatory.	[01:24]
nubbins`	nah	[01:24]
nubbins`	it matters to more people if it's an old davinci or what have you	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	if the shipwreck survivor found is a noble or a peasant, not if he owns a lot of farms and what havd you	[01:25]
nubbins`	but that doesn't preclude it mattering to anyone	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	if you insist to hold the utopian view.	[01:25]
nubbins`	oh, but i do!	[01:25]
nubbins`	we're all floating in a void	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	well the advantage of holding nonsense views (which utopianisms are by definiton) is that anything can be derived from them.	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	any conclusion is available to the inconsistent set of premises.	[01:27]
nubbins`	the magazines at the grocery store tell me that kim kardashian is very worthy of my attention, but that's simply false	[01:27]
nubbins`	well, yes.	[01:27]
nubbins`	what's more nonsense than debating whether or not something is art?	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	there can be no such debate.	[01:28]
nubbins`	or whether or not X or Y is a criteria for defining it?	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	art is art. you disagree, you may be punished by your lord. end of story.	[01:28]
nubbins`	or whether or not art exists?	[01:28]
nubbins`	or whether person X or person Y is an authority on the subject?	[01:28]
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nubbins`	unadulterated nonsense, all of it	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	so if you don't really wish to discuss art, why are you ?	[01:29]
nubbins`	regardless of a self-appointed lord's opinion	[01:29]
nubbins`	if i didn't wish to discuss it, i wouldn't. this is great.	[01:29]
nubbins`	you assume that people don't wish to discuss nonsense	[01:29]
nubbins`	the length of this exchange implies otherwise	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	lol no, you can't "Discuss" nonsense. to discuss a topic you have to renounce nonsense.	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	if you wish to wallow in nonsense you're stuck doing it by yourself	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	whether you get some others to do the same in your general proximity is irrelevant, everyone's still doing it by himself.	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	bukkake like	[01:30]
nubbins`	nonsense. you've been talking nonsense with me for like two hours.	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	wait till i publish it :)	[01:31]
nubbins`	wait til i draw it ;)	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	cool, go for it!	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	ima add it to the article	[01:31]
nubbins`	great, gimme an hour	[01:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.38989799 BTC [-]	[01:32]
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mircea_popescu	here you go.	[01:35]
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pankkake	is this art? http://i.imgur.com/lBx4YGG.png	[01:50]
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mircea_popescu	gotta ask putin.	[01:52]
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nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/UXMRkTT.png	[02:00]
nubbins`	that's the best representation of our conversation that i could come up with	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	just in time!	[02:01]
nubbins`	phew!	[02:02]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.15 = 0.3 BTC [-]	[02:03]
nubbins`	signed, numbered prints available; bare walls are for boors ;)	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/you-want-to-see-reactionary-ill-show-you-reactionary/	[02:04]
ozbot	You want to see reactionary ? I’ll show you reactionary. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[02:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 116 @ 0.00277899 = 0.3224 BTC [-]	[02:04]
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nubbins`	made it a couple of paragraphs in before realizing that i already knew how the conversation would go	[02:08]
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mircea_popescu	jhahaha	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	now you know how i feel.	[02:10]
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nubbins`	to a point, perhaps ;)	[02:11]
nubbins`	now you know why i leave the drawing to others	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	actually i think it wasn't bad.	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	think about it : the first of your productions to be art,	[02:12]
mircea_popescu	as enacted by trilema.	[02:12]
nubbins`	unfortunately, not the first	[02:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143 @ 0.00081717 = 0.1169 BTC [+]	[02:12]
nubbins`	although certainly the first time it's been featured in someone else's blog	[02:13]
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pankkake	wow pretty good drawing. i think I would have trouble with the teeth	[02:30]
pankkake	you must be a real artist	[02:30]
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nubbins`	not sure, you'd have to ask mp	[02:33]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1000 @ 0.001091 = 1.091 BTC [-]	[02:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1125 @ 0.001091 = 1.2274 BTC [-]	[02:35]
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nubbins`	anyway, it doesn't even really matter what the specifics look like. it's all about layout on the page	[02:36]
nubbins`	how it reads	[02:36]
nubbins`	that's the first thing people see	[02:37]
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bitcoin349	If the rat is on their computer from when I sent it without hiding my ip then I uninstall it before wiretransfering funds through bitcoin on a virtual machine with different settings and hiding ip on 3 layers would I be traced or would their not be a log in the ISP of the info about the rat.	[02:45]
dub	naturally	[02:46]
Kleeck_	How is your VM getting out to the internet, bitcoin349?	[02:47]
dub	how dare you ask such personal questions	[02:47]
Kleeck_	"_(	[02:47]
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dub	rats are very private animals	[02:48]
dub	respect that privacy	[02:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00082024 = 3.6911 BTC [+]	[02:49]
Kleeck_	"Rats. I hate rats."	[02:49]
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mircea_popescu	;;google 7 proxies	[02:50]
gribble	Good Luck, I'm Behind 7 Proxies \| Know Your Meme: ; 7 Proxies - Encyclopedia Dramatica: ; [ubuntu] 7 Proxies? - Ubuntu Forums:	[02:50]
mircea_popescu	3 is wholly insufficient.	[02:50]
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benkay	this art discussion, yo	[04:07]
benkay	ain't nothing to it, really	[04:07]
benkay	the only opinions as what matter terribly are those as what emanate from the powerful	[04:07]
benkay	which is baseline true	[04:08]
benkay	it's like the f=ma of power dynamics	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	i been tryin to tell him	[04:08]
benkay	i did find the line about equivalency between aesthetic value and caloric value amusing	[04:09]
benkay	and i only deploy capital against aesthetic things when it's going to have some sort of caloric return. eg: "babe, take this small pile of capital and deploy it making this space look nice. that way when clients come by they won't be horrified by my abysmal decoration and might actually be impressed by my aesthetic committee's performance"	[04:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.1251 BTC [-]	[04:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00277899 = 0.1112 BTC [-]	[04:13]
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nubbins`	so you pay someone to buy art to put in your home or office or w/e in order to not appear like the sort of person who would be perfectly content inside a grey cube	[04:21]
nubbins`	in that context, yes, i suppose you'd only have the opinion of the "powerful" on which to rely	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	burn the heretical unbeliever!	[04:23]
nubbins`	some of us demand more from our surroundings!	[04:23]
mircea_popescu	like better masking for the impact of power.	[04:24]
nubbins`	"man, this benkay guy must employ someone who has really good taste in art"	[04:26]
benkay	nubs, why u mad, brizzo?	[04:27]
nubbins`	i thought we were all mad here	[04:27]
benkay	there's some irony in there.	[04:27]
nubbins`	best cure for anemia	[04:27]
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benkay	i exercise veto all the time, man. neural nets need feedback to work correctly.	[04:29]
benkay	can't be arsed to go shopping though	[04:30]
benkay	very definitely a delegable task.	[04:30]
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benkay	on an entirely different topic, i fly to argentina tomorrow. i'd be glad to act as a proxy in buenos aires for, you know, not anyone, but people in this channel with btc-related inquiries	[04:31]
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nubbins`	honestly, the concept of going shopping for art hadn't occurred to me until now	[04:36]
nubbins`	you do it like you'd shop for pants or a new shower curtain or whatever?	[04:37]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.81424999 = 16.285 BTC [+] {4}	[04:43]
benkay	nubbins`: when a thing strikes me as being of high quality, i generally submit it to the aesthetics comittee for discussion and then instruct said aesthetes to purchase the thing	[04:47]
benkay	unless they have cogent reasons for to not, obviously.	[04:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.05410003 = 0.541 BTC [-]	[04:49]
benkay	(high quality and, you know, appeals to my taste etc)	[04:49]
benkay	but occasionally i find myself confronted by a wall insufficiently arted	[04:50]
nubbins`	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-11-2013#367374	[04:50]
ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log	[04:50]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.84799165 = 5.0879 BTC [+] {2}	[04:55]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.848 = 4.24 BTC [+]	[04:56]
thestrin1puller	nubbins` lol	[04:59]
thestrin1puller	you cray cray	[04:59]
benkay	cray like fox.	[04:59]
thestrin1puller	cray like kendrick lamar yo yo	[04:59]
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thestringpuller	gold for BTC, perfect way to launder	[05:01]
nubbins`	^	[05:02]
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thestringpuller	gpg yo	[05:05]
nubbins`	pdftk is a great program	[05:05]
thestringpuller	dat svg	[05:06]
thestringpuller	sexy sexy	[05:06]
benkay	the bounce is back	[05:09]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00024449 = 1.2225 BTC [-]	[05:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 500 @ 0.00109498 = 0.5475 BTC [+]	[05:37]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00277899 = 0.3112 BTC [-]	[05:41]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.87 BTC [+]	[05:43]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.86 = 8.6 BTC [-]	[05:49]
benkay	"commodity backed cryptocurrency"	[05:51]
benkay	given that i can take my buttcorns down to ye local banker and turn them into commodities, this is idiocy on idiocy, right?	[05:51]
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mircea_popescu	so far.	[05:52]
benkay	"so far"?	[05:53]
benkay	meaning in the absence of a functional commodity-backed cc?	[05:53]
mircea_popescu	what you've said so far	[05:53]
mircea_popescu	mebbe there's more to it ?	[05:53]
benkay	not by my parsing.	[05:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.73100011 BTC [-]	[05:54]
benkay	just thinking about the concept shows it riddled with the holes of weak minds	[05:54]
benkay	how does one trust the issuer of such cc to back it fully and not descend into fractional reserve behavior?	[05:55]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.0599 = 0.1198 BTC [+]	[05:55]
benkay	i'm still trying to formulate an argument against people who hold that bitcoin is fiat currency	[05:56]
benkay	'cause "it's backed by math, idiot" isn't working	[05:56]
dub	erryday I hear, 'no really what are you really cracking'	[05:56]
benkay	i find myself trying to convince people of stuff again dammit :(	[05:56]
benkay	dub: as in "are you on crack"?	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	da fuck is "bitcoin is fiat currency" supposed to mean ?	[05:58]
benkay	i think the implication is that it's a currency by consensus	[05:59]
mike_c	it doesn't mean anything. What they mean when they say it is that it isn't backed by anything of value. you know, like gold.	[05:59]
benkay	which is moronic given that all currencies are only such by consensus	[05:59]
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opc0d3	ofmogmozgml0lgz	[06:00]
benkay	enlighten me opc0d3	[06:00]
mike_c	it's one of those arguments that when you hear it, your ears start to bleed a little.	[06:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4796 @ 0.00084784 = 4.0662 BTC [+]	[06:00]
opc0d3	ICBIT.se 0% fees. mpex is going down the drain. ICBIT.se 2 years of rock solid trusted service. ICBIT.se futures much better then MPEX garbage with 40BTC signup fee	[06:00]
opc0d3	MPEX going to zero. how do i short MPEX. +1 ICBIT.se	[06:00]
opc0d3	that is all.	[06:00]
opc0d3	I doubled my BTC buying futures at ICBIT.se, the greatest and largest futures exchange of all time	[06:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.002779 = 0.1362 BTC [+]	[06:01]
nubbins`	art by consensus	[06:01]
benkay	opc0d3: what's the options volume on icbit?	[06:01]
opc0d3	4:1 leverage. best way to make money with exchange rate going up	[06:01]
mike_c	went from 1 btc to 2? congrats!	[06:01]
benkay	nubbins`: art because your lord said so. money by the same.	[06:02]
opc0d3	benkay: 170,000 volume on the futures contracts	[06:02]
nubbins`	benkay: i'm not the one with an aesthetics subcommittee.	[06:03]
benkay	it's not a subcommittee, it only reports to me.	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	start there.	[06:04]
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nubbins`	consider the statement suitably modified	[06:05]
nubbins`	art by fiat!	[06:06]
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mircea_popescu	i suppose the entire "bitcoin is fiat" argument fails to comprehend that the only true scarcity is mathematical in nature.	[06:06]
mircea_popescu	you can't get another number four.	[06:06]
nubbins`	art by math: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-11-2013#367467	[06:06]
benkay	i would put the a.c. outside for the night if that hit my radar unsolicited.	[06:08]
asciilifeform	what's next? some joker will say that an AK round is 'fiat' currency?	[06:08]
benkay	(^^ nubbins`)	[06:08]
asciilifeform	'barrel doesn't /have/ to be 7.62mm! fiat!'	[06:08]
nubbins`	;)	[06:08]
opc0d3	mircea_popescu: so you claim that they sell fake contracts down to force people into margin calls?? doubt it. i've been trading there for 4 months, in the black significantly, (im on this list https://icbit.se/WebTrade/top.aspx ) and have made multiple withdrawls.	[06:08]
opc0d3	Tycho is an ADMIN at bitcointalk and very trusted and is one of the owners.	[06:08]
benkay	admin at bitcointalk	[06:08]
benkay	well then give him all your isk	[06:09]
mike_c	no, an ADMIN	[06:09]
nubbins`	admin AT BITCOINTALK	[06:09]
opc0d3	mircea_popescu: sounds like you're just bitter that they had thin volume and someone traded against you	[06:09]
benkay	amazing options	[06:09]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[06:09]
*	toffoo (~tof@179.218.77.42) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:09]
opc0d3	point is, he's trusted	[06:09]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 don't be an idiot. that article is older than your involvement in "finance".	[06:09]
opc0d3	laugh all you want. its like laughing at using John K for escrow.. you sound like idiots	[06:09]
pankkake	> trusting a website with urls in .aspx	[06:09]
nubbins`	trust by fiat	[06:09]
mircea_popescu	sigh.	[06:09]
opc0d3	mircea_popescu: they have more volume now. you obviously bought futures in a thin market, and it moved against you.	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	i love it when 4 month old muppets imagine their short lifespan compensates for 2year+ history.	[06:10]
mike_c	is he kidding? or did john k show his face again?	[06:10]
nubbins`	pankkake: there's nothing stopping that from being a renamed .jspx ;)	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 mpex had months over 1mn btc nominal.	[06:10]
opc0d3	they're only getting bigger and bigger... so laugh all you want	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	the difference is that mpex uses actual figures, rather than running this thinly veiled scam you do.	[06:10]
opc0d3	ICBIT.se is the most legitimate futures exchange right now, and the largest.... so laugh at their success	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	they get bigger and bigger each year.	[06:11]
opc0d3	0% fees also	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	then they magically don't have the dough to pay the winners, and go into a cone of darkness for a half year	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	then they hire some five cent an hour muppets and are again alll sucess and bigger and bigger.	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	and again and again.	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	unregulated markets have various advantages, among which the existence of such idiocy.	[06:12]
opc0d3	mircea_popescu: it's in your interest to slander you competitors. so, forgive me if I call you on your FUD and BS	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	dude.	[06:12]
benkay	"don't have the dough to pay the winners"	[06:12]
benkay	sauce?	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	benkay the article quoted, and there's periodic such reports on bitcointalk	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	last one was about 3 months or so. magically, his position was executed 10% under market.	[06:12]
Apocalyptic	opc0d3, ICBIT.se ? never heard of that	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	and to clarify, opc0d3 , you don't get to come in after a coupla years and call established fact "fud" and "bs".	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	if nothing else, because there's little doubt and even less uncertainity involved.	[06:14]
opc0d3	Apocalyptic: its the largest Futures exchange, and they have 0% trading fees right now... its awesome	[06:15]
benkay	;;getrating opc0d3	[06:15]
gribble	Use the gettrust command instead. See http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System#Relying_on_the_rating	[06:15]
benkay	;;gettrust opc0d3	[06:15]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user opc0d3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=opc0d3 \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=opc0d3 \| Rated since: never	[06:15]
benkay	ah well there ya go	[06:15]
opc0d3	MPEX is upset that they've stolen market share so they tried to slander them	[06:15]
benkay	come back with a wot identity opc0d3	[06:16]
opc0d3	too lazy	[06:16]
opc0d3	maybe later	[06:16]
benkay	a telling response.	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	benkay you're just angry because he's stealing your wot share.	[06:17]
Apocalyptic	well the fact site is running on ASP makes me chuckle a bit	[06:17]
opc0d3	mircea_popescu: even though i think you're full of shit.... your picture on that horse is hilarious. +1	[06:17]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 you don't have what to think i'm full of shit with.	[06:17]
nubbins`	hey, asp dot net!	[06:18]
pankkake	oh a webchat user, the advance sign of retardation	[06:18]
nubbins`	there's an "x" in those extensions!	[06:18]
opc0d3	Apocalyptic: yeah, funny that most of the worlds corporate software runs on .NET , i wonder why multi-billion dollar companies use .NET... what idiots@!!	[06:18]
pankkake	lol	[06:18]
Apocalyptic	do they ? i feel more secure running a linux server honestly	[06:18]
Apocalyptic	but what do I know...	[06:18]
nubbins`	they do.	[06:18]
opc0d3	only idiots would buy windows. That Mircosoft company must be worthless.... let me check	[06:19]
pankkake	you know, multi billion dollar companies aren't a very good example of competence or efficiency	[06:19]
Apocalyptic	^^	[06:19]
opc0d3	$300B market cap!	[06:19]
benkay	inertia, mostly.	[06:19]
benkay	and what's the fb market cap? and their competence/business acumen?	[06:19]
opc0d3	pankkake: doesn't mean that running a .NET site is stupid or bad idea.	[06:19]
pankkake	you'll figure it out when you get out of school	[06:19]
opc0d3	i run linux on all my servers. but can tell you from experience that big corps prefer MSFT	[06:20]
pankkake	so?	[06:20]
mircea_popescu	this is progressing nicely.	[06:20]
Apocalyptic	opc0d3, they "prefer" that's it	[06:20]
Apocalyptic	doesn't mean anything about the value of the product	[06:20]
opc0d3	you guys are lemmings to laugh at .NET	[06:21]
opc0d3	linux fanboys	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 where have you learned to win friends and influence people ?	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	it wasn't steve ballmer was it.	[06:21]
nubbins`	see, the thing is: coca-cola can afford to pay for gold-tier support contracts, so they can use .NET and if it breaks (which it doesn't), they have a big red telephone they can pick up to get it fixed	[06:21]
opc0d3	i personally don't use any MSFT products, but would never be so idiotic to laugh at developers that do	[06:21]
nubbins`	some random btc-related website likely doesn't have any sort of gold-tier anything	[06:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 99 @ 0.0075988 = 0.7523 BTC [+]	[06:22]
nubbins`	and so if something breaks (it will), they're fucked until they figure out how to fix it	[06:22]
opc0d3	+1 nubbins	[06:22]
nubbins`	THAT SAID	[06:22]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` except a fictitious exchange with no volume could be just as well run off dreamweaver.	[06:22]
opc0d3	nah. .NET deployments are usually much more stable then linux ones	[06:22]
nubbins`	the support community around .NET is just as massive as the one around any other web dev technology	[06:22]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: notepad, even	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	was.	[06:23]
Apocalyptic	opc0d3, out of curiosity when was this trading plateform launched ?	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	it was, in 2001. maybe 2005.	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	it's nowhere near today.	[06:23]
opc0d3	what a load of BS>... ICBIT is not 'fictitious' nor does it have no volume.... so much misinformation and lies in here	[06:23]
opc0d3	you're just pissed you have competition -- successful competition	[06:23]
nubbins`	ah, i haven't worked with .NET since around 2005-07	[06:23]
dub	tycho is that guy that forgot how to run a pool yeah?	[06:23]
benkay	opc0d3 - it's an echo chamber in here. don't get butthurt.	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 dude, every mayfly in the book has said the exact same thing about me.	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	read moar.	[06:23]
nubbins`	left it behind when WCF started getting pushed	[06:24]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` from what i hear you weren't alone	[06:24]
opc0d3	benkay: MP talks, and pankkake echo's , seems like	[06:25]
nubbins`	the years of sharepoint development sucked my soul out, but being forced to move to WCF was the straw that broke me	[06:25]
opc0d3	a cute little parrot on his shoulder	[06:25]
pankkake	what you don't understand is that there is only one person here	[06:25]
nubbins`	^	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	opc0d3 you know you could save yourself a lot of embarassment by reviewing the logs for a few days before blindly jumping in.	[06:25]
nubbins`	everyone else is a robot	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	an approach which actually would make your life better in every aspect.	[06:26]
mike_c	then you would know how to identify art.	[06:26]
benkay	what ams art?	[06:26]
benkay	r options art?	[06:26]
pankkake	please not again :(	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	mike_c by the way, you do have a point.	[06:26]
benkay	i am making put arts	[06:26]
nubbins`	it's art if i publish it	[06:26]
nubbins`	should we get eskimo bob in here?	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	while the opex system works great in every aspect as it is, the underwriter has no actual way to verify when they were executed in fact.	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	so for all they know i could be making shit up.	[06:27]
asciilifeform	opc0d3: there are no people here. just a script, running on a PDP-8 drywalled into a closet, door painted over, at NSA campus.	[06:27]
mike_c	yes :)	[06:27]
mircea_popescu	it somehow never occured to me, this.	[06:27]
mircea_popescu	i'm lucky i'm not the only person reading these logs, it turns out. anyway, we're in the process of arguing about it.	[06:27]
mike_c	ah, glad to hear.	[06:27]
benkay	i think i have wondered at this myself	[06:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0076 = 0.304 BTC [+]	[06:28]
benkay	("me too! me too!")	[06:28]
mike_c	i will share all the prize money with you benkay	[06:29]
benkay	mircea_popescu: what do you think about ludwig von mises?	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	as what, a main course meal ?	[06:30]
benkay	you eat men	[06:31]
benkay	dear dog save us all	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	lmao.	[06:31]
nubbins`	there is no dog	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	no but seriously, much more of an economist than a philosopher, for instance.	[06:31]
nubbins`	there is only natas!	[06:31]
benkay	nah i have two weeks of reading and boozing and wenching coming up and i want something meaty	[06:32]
*	opc0d3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[06:32]
benkay	something that'll stick to my brainbones	[06:32]
benkay	i've lined up the modern money theory stuff on the premise that coming through that'll inoculate me against some brands of idiocy	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	dubious proposition.	[06:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00759988 = 0.76 BTC [-] {2}	[06:33]
nubbins`	best stick to fiction	[06:33]
mircea_popescu	seeing how its entire appeal is constructed by ceaseless repeating	[06:33]
benkay	okay noted	[06:33]
mircea_popescu	the sad thing of money is that nobody really wrote of it well.	[06:33]
mircea_popescu	it's like this supermistress of most accomplished lures which goes wholly forgotten and ignored to the grave,	[06:34]
mircea_popescu	because the sort of men she loved and loved her back were too busy doing to harp about it.	[06:34]
benkay	(doing it)	[06:34]
mircea_popescu	:p	[06:35]
benkay	i suspect i alreaady understand mises work just from the subtitle of that one book	[06:35]
benkay	how the middle way leads to socialism, bad policies following bad policies etc	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	instead phthisic "women" captive in the bodies of little boys like all the various utopian facets of socialism get tons of idyllic literature fashioned	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	by the sort of idle, pointless virgins that'd be interested in such crap.	[06:36]
benkay	plato, then?	[06:37]
*	zoinky has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[06:37]
mircea_popescu	btw pankkake you're doing a very small amount of parroting over here! i thought we had a deal!	[06:37]
pankkake	I need to insult you more	[06:37]
pankkake	or something	[06:37]
mircea_popescu	the one problem with these kids is... they have no endurance.	[06:38]
pankkake	I haven't read your latest blog stuff so I have nothing to disagree with	[06:38]
*	TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)	[06:38]
mircea_popescu	ten minutes later they're gone. how's one supposed to have fun ;/	[06:38]
*	[7] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	hey opc0d3 come back! we weren't done!@	[06:39]
pankkake	well he probably came earlier and will come back later. I wonder why he picked me, I wasn't even parroting this time	[06:40]
nubbins`	once the conversation turned to books, i began silently lamenting my inability to finish reading one hundred years of solitude	[06:40]
pankkake	though it felt that way other times	[06:40]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.389 BTC [-]	[06:40]
pankkake	I don't understand futures, options, and have no idea what icbit is :)	[06:40]
nubbins`	voodoo gibberish, stay away	[06:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.0076999 = 0.1925 BTC [+]	[06:41]
benkay	black finance magic of the destroy economies kind	[06:41]
benkay	only allowed on buttcoin black markets	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	it's basically bitcoinica minus the relic hunting.	[06:42]
pankkake	"savage capitalism" as your socialists say	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	i don't recall now if it was written as a bitcoinica envy clone or not.	[06:42]
benkay	hey mircea_popescu what were you implying the other day when you queried for the s.mg price and then made a comment about an in-game thing?	[06:42]
pankkake	somehow when I see savage I think of a horse running free in the grass	[06:42]
pankkake	so I'm ok with that	[06:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 121 @ 0.00109498 = 0.1325 BTC [+] {2}	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	benkay just idle comment that the volume was apparently up	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	or down	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	or i don't recall which	[06:43]
benkay	i'd started imagining game/stock tie-ins	[06:44]
benkay	hey mircea_popescu you have some education to perform: https://twitter.com/rabois/status/397075060499812352	[06:48]
mircea_popescu	what's the rush.	[06:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 193 @ 0.00769996 = 1.4861 BTC [+] {2}	[06:49]
mike_c	joel spolsky	[06:49]
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*	zoinky (~Adium@unaffiliated/zoinky) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:53]
pankkake	it's part of his strategy though	[06:53]
pankkake	not posting stupid shit on twitter	[06:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.05989999 = 0.2396 BTC [-]	[06:53]
mircea_popescu	actually i think there's a rss to twitter feed.	[06:53]
dub	speaking of education	[06:54]
dub	http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bella/2013/01/your_chinese_takeout_box_has_b.php	[06:54]
dub	groundbreaking stuff	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	mike_c probably not count because engineers aren't "successfull ceos".	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	or because july isn't current. or w/e.	[06:55]
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benkay	dub: i wanted it to have a badbios	[06:56]
nubbins`	your chinese takeout box has had a badbios this whole time	[06:59]
dub	tl;dr? seen it mentioned a few times today	[06:59]
mircea_popescu	twist : badbios is written in .net	[07:00]
nubbins`	that'd be an impressive feat	[07:03]
nubbins`	you'd get at least a few whitepapers out of it	[07:03]
mircea_popescu	further twist : http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-claims-china-bugged-tea-kettles-2013-10	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	i think my cock might be bugged	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	it buggers womenz all teh time.	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	even further twist : "its payment unit PayPal may one day incorporate BitCoin." where are you skinnavaj guy.	[07:05]
nubbins`	ltc: to the hill!	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	(sauce : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-03/ebay-expands-accepted-digital-currencies-says-paypal-may-one-day-incorporate-bitcoin )	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	ahahaah to the hill	[07:07]
KRS1	Its Fontas http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/37873404.jpg	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	too good.	[07:07]
pankkake	I have a hard time imagining ebay adopting bitcoin	[07:07]
*	af33 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	i don't have a hard time imagining why they'd want to tho.	[07:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00084278 = 10.5769 BTC [-] {2}	[07:08]
nubbins`	breaking news: ebay to acquire bitcoin	[07:08]
pankkake	the make a lot through paypal fees, or sneaky currency conversion fees	[07:09]
nubbins`	they make a lot through ebay fees	[07:09]
nubbins`	10%!	[07:09]
pankkake	really it's 10% now?	[07:09]
nubbins`	yes man	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	they'd make a helluva lot more if they could just take a file out of dpr's book and tell the govt to suck on an onion./	[07:09]
nubbins`	ebay+pp = 13%	[07:09]
pankkake	it's becoming worse and worse	[07:09]
pankkake	wow	[07:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00084145 = 8.5828 BTC [-]	[07:09]
nubbins`	that's why everything is so goddamn expensive on ebay	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	wait, so actually the silkroad charged less than ebay ?!	[07:10]
pankkake	my last big sales were in the 5% range or less, but that was years ago	[07:10]
nubbins`	i think SR was a straight-up 10?	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	maybe i completely misunderstood the business model there.	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	it wasn't for drugs.	[07:10]
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nubbins`	although if you wanna be fair you'd have to include exchange fees	[07:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 93 @ 0.0076024 = 0.707 BTC [-]	[07:14]
*	MustardKing has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[07:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 11 @ 0.06 = 0.66 BTC [+]	[07:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.05989999 = 0.2396 BTC [-]	[07:23]
benkay	huh. so when does the ebay for bitcoin happen, eh mp?	[07:25]
*	Dimsler has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	i dunno. i been crowing about how it'd be a good idea for years.	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	that bitmit thing isn't going anywhere.	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	but where to find the people to do it...	[07:27]
pankkake	I've been meaning to write it but my productivity is close to zero these last few months	[07:28]
pankkake	mostly due to frustrations with bitmit	[07:28]
pankkake	well, if I do something, that will be it	[07:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5229 @ 0.00083969 = 4.3907 BTC [-]	[07:30]
pankkake	their thread is full of disgruntled sellers, certainly not what you'd want	[07:31]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.002779 = 0.1779 BTC [+]	[07:34]
benkay	pankkake u ams dev, unless I misremember	[07:36]
benkay	(plz for to correct)	[07:36]
pankkake	ams?	[07:36]
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pankkake	I'm a developer, mostly worked for web startups	[07:37]
benkay	preferred stack?	[07:39]
*	Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:39]
pankkake	Python, where I use many libs rather than a framework	[07:39]
pankkake	though I previously used Django	[07:40]
benkay	ugh	[07:40]
benkay	django is like a ufo	[07:40]
benkay	"incant this triangular shaped widget into this triangular shaped hole and photos will appear over there"	[07:40]
pankkake	it's easy to do simple stuff but hard to do complex stuff	[07:40]
pankkake	haha	[07:40]
benkay	fn tell me about it	[07:40]
benkay	when i get back from le argent i gotta defuck this django stack	[07:41]
benkay	and then make it profitable	[07:41]
pankkake	I haven't kept up with the latest frameworks	[07:42]
benkay	allow me to express my disgust with python	[07:42]
pankkake	though I use most libs of the Pyramids stack	[07:42]
benkay	DISGUST	[07:42]
pankkake	what do you use?	[07:42]
benkay	clojure	[07:42]
pankkake	:D	[07:42]
benkay	although python because clients	[07:42]
benkay	hm.	[07:43]
benkay	bitcoin ebay?	[07:43]
benkay	in lisp?	[07:43]
benkay	come on pankkake	[07:45]
mircea_popescu	it's not a matter of platform or coding even.	[07:46]
mircea_popescu	when i say someone to do it i mean someone with a decade's worth of experience in a relevant position.	[07:46]
mircea_popescu	area manager for a major fcmg retailer, for instance.	[07:46]
pankkake	there's more than doing an ebay though. there is a need for easy small shops (like bigcartel.com)	[07:46]
pankkake	fcmg?	[07:47]
benkay	i would love to build a thing under someone with a decade's domain experience	[07:47]
benkay	i also want to work with tools that i enjoy	[07:47]
benkay	(as an aside: do you know how hard it is to find business-oriented mentors in america?)	[07:48]
nubbins`	bigcartel is beta-ing direct credit card payments right now	[07:48]
nubbins`	i got an email about it the other day	[07:48]
nubbins`	cutting paypal outta the loop!	[07:48]
pankkake	about time	[07:48]
nubbins`	nod	[07:48]
benkay	(the best we get are advertising/strategy bros who have accidentally fallen into tech)	[07:48]
pankkake	hm bandcamp still uses paypal?	[07:49]
nubbins`	afaik	[07:49]
nubbins`	now, both allowed you to pay with a cc without having a paypal account	[07:50]
nubbins`	but still.	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	benkay myeah.	[07:51]
mircea_popescu	pankkake fast moving consumer goods. like sodas, tampons, whatever.	[07:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.0076025 = 0.2585 BTC [+]	[07:58]
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nubbins`	speedboats	[08:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00083969 = 6.3816 BTC [-]	[08:01]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.83 BTC [+]	[08:03]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.002779 = 0.5558 BTC [+]	[08:15]
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benkay	ohai luke	[08:33]
benkay	how are those quantum bitcoins coming, eh?	[08:33]
benkay	Luke-Jr: ping	[08:34]
Luke-Jr	…	[08:34]
benkay	noosphere?	[08:36]
benkay	oh scuse me noospheer	[08:37]
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benkay	Luke-Jr: weren't you involved with that operation?	[08:39]
Luke-Jr	only if they get something working	[08:40]
Luke-Jr	then I'll add support to BFGMiner	[08:40]
Luke-Jr	I'm skeptical it'll get that far.	[08:41]
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Luke-Jr	especially when the main guy behind it is going around demanding proof GPUs can't simulate ASICs..	[08:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.83 BTC [+]	[08:44]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.869 BTC [+]	[08:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.8699 = 1.7398 BTC [+]	[08:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00083969 = 8.6488 BTC [-]	[09:04]
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mircea_popescu	lol such a failpile.	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	simulate asics in gpus simulated in pressure cookers simulated in one guy's mind.	[09:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.83 BTC [-]	[09:29]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.0076016 = 0.7982 BTC [-] {3}	[09:30]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 612 @ 0.00109498 = 0.6701 BTC [+]	[09:51]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.8699999 BTC [+]	[10:12]
jurov	pankkake: my impression is as soon as one wants javascript interactive bling, is in for serious butthurt	[10:14]
jurov	regardless of framework	[10:14]
jurov	it's like windows api, but developed by multiple competing entities	[10:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00278 = 0.278 BTC [+]	[10:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 450 @ 0.00109498 = 0.4927 BTC [+]	[10:20]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.8301 BTC [-]	[10:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00788039 = 0.8274 BTC [+] {4}	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	so mike_c, it may please you to find that not only are you in the mpex faq now, but process of arguing about it ended a coupla hours ago with my complete capitulation	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	as a result mpex now returns executed collateral immediately upon execution.	[10:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00083969 = 2.8549 BTC [-]	[10:58]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 498 @ 0.00109102 = 0.5433 BTC [-] {3}	[11:34]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 103 @ 0.00278 = 0.2863 BTC [+]	[12:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 558 @ 0.00109498 = 0.611 BTC [+] {2}	[12:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 15 @ 0.06 = 0.9 BTC [+]	[12:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00083436 = 11.097 BTC [-]	[12:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 88 @ 0.0078889 = 0.6942 BTC [+]	[12:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 13 @ 0.0078889 = 0.1026 BTC [+] {2}	[12:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00082588 = 16.146 BTC [-]	[12:26]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.12748333 = 0.7649 BTC [+] {2}	[12:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 88 @ 0.0078871 = 0.6941 BTC [-]	[12:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+]	[12:31]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 88 @ 0.00788839 = 0.6942 BTC [+] {2}	[12:35]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 204 @ 0.00789226 = 1.61 BTC [+] {5}	[12:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 421 @ 0.00278 = 1.1704 BTC [+]	[13:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5941 @ 0.00082876 = 4.9237 BTC [+]	[13:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.85 = 3.4 BTC [+]	[13:52]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.83000044 = 9.13 BTC [-] {3}	[14:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.8255716 = 1.6511 BTC [-] {2}	[14:03]
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jurov	as a result mpex now returns executed collateral immediately upon execution.<<< immediately on opex you mean? or it's about futures?	[14:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 375 @ 0.00278135 = 1.043 BTC [+] {2}	[14:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1073 @ 0.00278769 = 2.9912 BTC [+]	[14:14]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 837 @ 0.00278769 = 2.3333 BTC [+]	[14:16]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.8 = 12.8 BTC [-] {3}	[14:25]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 238 @ 0.00277874 = 0.6613 BTC [-] {2}	[14:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11967 @ 0.00082588 = 9.8833 BTC [-]	[14:33]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.75916668 = 2.2775 BTC [-] {2}	[14:50]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share	[15:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00082886 = 7.2111 BTC [+] {2}	[15:03]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 37 @ 0.0599135 = 2.2168 BTC [-] {2}	[15:19]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 21 @ 0.05989999 = 1.2579 BTC [-]	[15:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 95 @ 0.05989999 = 5.6905 BTC [-]	[15:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7016 @ 0.00082984 = 5.8222 BTC [+] {2}	[15:36]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 127 @ 0.00780004 = 0.9906 BTC [+] {3}	[15:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 89 @ 0.0078899 = 0.7022 BTC [+]	[15:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 54 @ 0.05803898 = 3.1341 BTC [-] {3}	[15:52]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 131 @ 0.0078 = 1.0218 BTC [-]	[16:04]
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kleeck	Heh. Just got a notification email from the my State's Healthcare Association regarind CryptoLocker.	[16:21]
kleeck	My IronPort has been stripping zipped .exe files for a month now., all from DHL, UPS, and FedEx. Thanks for the headsup...	[16:22]
topace	haha	[16:22]
topace	thats a pretty shitty virus	[16:22]
topace	bringing a lot of new people to bitcoin	[16:23]
topace	in a bad way	[16:23]
topace	i had one guy ask me how i hadnt been arrested yet becuase he knew my address and phone number he was going to report me to the police	[16:23]
topace	it took me half an hour to explain to him, i only buy and sell bitcoins,. i have nothing to do with cryptolocker	[16:23]
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kleeck	lol	[16:25]
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kleeck	Drugs and Viruses, the backbone of BTC>	[16:25]
kleeck	:P	[16:26]
kleeck	It makes me sad that this virus is actually doing damage to any medium sized businesses.	[16:26]
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kleeck	First off, your users shouldn't be able to get a zipped exe, or an exe, at all.	[16:26]
kleeck	At least via e-mail.	[16:27]
kleeck	Second, why don't you have backups?!	[16:27]
topace	one guy i talked to said it infected their backup system from the desktop it was clicked on	[16:28]
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topace	i tried to explain to him how a moutned network drive != backup	[16:28]
kleeck	What?	[16:28]
topace	useless	[16:28]
kleeck	His backup was a network share?	[16:28]
topace	yea	[16:28]
kleeck	wtf	[16:28]
topace	which, kinda makes sense	[16:28]
kleeck	who are these clowns?	[16:28]
topace	it was a NAS	[16:28]
topace	and as a clueless IT person, thats probabyl what i would do too	[16:28]
kleeck	So, this wasn't a system admin, then?	[16:29]
topace	most of these companies dont have sysadmins	[16:29]
topace	they have "a guy that knows a littlbe bit about computers"	[16:29]
topace	or	[16:29]
kleeck	And uses network shares as a backup solution..	[16:29]
topace	"a guy that knows a guy that knows how to use computers"	[16:29]
kleeck	You can use a NAS, but you don't SHARE the backup partition.	[16:30]
topace	mostly ive been contacted by small businesses.. 3-10 employees	[16:30]
kleeck	I see.	[16:30]
topace	3-5 per week the past few weeks	[16:30]
kleeck	Do you do support, then?	[16:30]
topace	"hi, i'd like to buy exactly 2.00000000 bitcoins, how do i do it? can i give you my creditcard number?"	[16:30]
kleeck	Oh no...	[16:30]
topace	== surefire cryptolocker victim	[16:30]
kleeck	That sucks, man.	[16:31]
kleeck	Makes me sad.	[16:31]
topace	i run www.canadianbitcoins.com	[16:31]
kleeck	I see.	[16:31]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.760217 = 4.5613 BTC [+] {4}	[16:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 151 @ 0.00769506 = 1.162 BTC [-] {2}	[16:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 6 @ 0.0580001 = 0.348 BTC [-]	[16:42]
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jcpham	http://pandodaily.com/2013/11/04/startup-snake-oil-scamming-early-stage-entrepreneurs/	[16:46]
ozbot	Startup snake oil: scamming early stage entrepreneurs \| PandoDaily	[16:46]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 43 @ 0.00277999 = 0.1195 BTC [+]	[16:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19883 @ 0.00082375 = 16.3786 BTC [-] {2}	[16:50]
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nubbins`	;;ticker --market all	[16:54]
kleeck	.d	[16:54]
ozbot	390928787.63809 \| Next Diff in 209 blocks \| Estimated Change: 31.8184% in 0d 23h 40m 50s	[16:54]
nubbins`	gribs is slow	[16:54]
gribble	MtGox BTCUSD last: 234.63654, vol: 18870.86799441 \| Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 218.97, vol: 19816.55391138 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 215.996, vol: 12618.76417 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 213.98, vol: 386.26816174 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 228.25050156, vol: 33815.64000000 \| Volume-weighted last average: 225.636171552	[16:54]
nubbins`	(!!)	[16:54]
ThickAsThieves	well shit	[16:54]
nubbins`	i know right?	[16:55]
ThickAsThieves	;;nethash	[16:55]
gribble	4033928.60985	[16:55]
ThickAsThieves	;;estimate	[16:55]
gribble	Next difficulty estimate \| 515523510.95 based on data since last change \| 563524717.975 based on data for last three days	[16:55]
nubbins`	any guesses as to when we'll see a BTC-USD all-time high?	[16:56]
ThickAsThieves	this week	[16:56]
nubbins`	wouldn't surprise me	[16:57]
ThickAsThieves	i thought we'd be pulling back already	[16:57]
nubbins`	nod	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	i think this ebay news is floating it	[16:58]
nubbins`	i was surprised at the amount of support ~200	[16:58]
JoeyMe	it cant go down can it?	[16:58]
nubbins`	JoeyMe: impossible, re-mortgage your house and put it all in btc	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	nubbins' is a financial advisor	[16:58]
JoeyMe	no, I meant difficulty	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	diff can go down	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	it wont any time soon	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	but it can	[16:59]
JoeyMe	ok	[16:59]
nubbins`	hm, i wonder	[17:01]
nubbins`	i'd normally be really stressed out about buying btc at 225	[17:02]
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nubbins`	but i don't think it would be a bad idea, short-term	[17:03]
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ThickAsThieves	it's all a guess at this point	[17:04]
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ThickAsThieves	looking at the situation I think many would say it's overpriced	[17:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.007695 = 0.9234 BTC [-] {2}	[17:04]
ThickAsThieves	but there's no stopping it from going up more	[17:04]
ThickAsThieves	it will relieve itself eventually	[17:04]
nubbins`	agreed	[17:05]
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nubbins`	just a matter of how close you can get your horseshoe to the stake	[17:06]
bitesak	;;ticker	[17:06]
gribble	MtGox BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 232.90000, Best ask: 234.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.10000, Last trade: 232.00001, 24 hour volume: 19281.05367985, 24 hour low: 214.89993, 24 hour high: 234.95000, 24 hour vwap: 223.42446	[17:06]
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bitesak	thats quite a price for 1 bitcoin	[17:06]
nubbins`	it's quite a price for two, really	[17:07]
kleeck	Yes. I dare say I'm gonig to take some profits now.	[17:07]
ThickAsThieves	$2329000 for a pizza	[17:07]
nubbins`	heh	[17:07]
kleeck	:)	[17:07]
ThickAsThieves	fukn inflation	[17:07]
bitesak	now? it's not even an all time high	[17:07]
nubbins`	can't even imagine what a box of kraft dinner costs ;)	[17:08]
nubbins`	bitesak: greedy!	[17:08]
kleeck	Of course now. Average bought is 60$. It is time.	[17:08]
nubbins`	<-avg $22	[17:08]
kleeck	Well done!	[17:08]
kleeck	I bought my first @ 9$.	[17:08]
nubbins`	better done if i hadn't won and lost several fortunes in that period of time	[17:08]
kleeck	I won't say what I did with those...	[17:08]
nubbins`	my first btc cost $16, and i smoked it	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	$230 joints	[17:09]
kleeck	I too looked into the eyes of insane profit % and said, "Nay! I will not take you!"	[17:09]
bitesak	I bought me first at39cents and have made many 'wrong' decisions along the way on selling them :)	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	good stuff i hope	[17:09]
nubbins`	cough good enough	[17:09]
nubbins`	anyway, i did some math the other day	[17:10]
kleeck	And now we get to tell our friends all about the premium drugs we've abused.	[17:10]
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nubbins`	it turns out that if i had just done nothing with my btc, i'd be in exactly the same financial situation as i am today	[17:10]
nubbins`	which is really the best i could ask for, given how many times i've lost my shirt on poor investments	[17:11]
kleeck	haha	[17:11]
kleeck	I hear you.	[17:11]
nubbins`	losing money makes you learn quickly.	[17:11]
kleeck	Indeed.	[17:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.75600008 = 9.072 BTC [-] {4}	[17:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.75300001 BTC [-]	[17:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1500 @ 0.00762295 = 11.4344 BTC [-] {10}	[17:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 519 @ 0.0075985 = 3.9436 BTC [-]	[17:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.72227777 = 6.5005 BTC [-] {4}	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	jurov no, options.	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` so then no, you wou;dn't be in the same position. knowledge is money.	[17:20]
ThickAsThieves	brain equity	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	fritz machlup ftw	[17:20]
nubbins`	hmm, you've got a point	[17:20]
nubbins`	i'd likely have lost my shirt in some other manner	[17:21]
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nubbins`	and i mean, i get shirts wholesale, but they're still not free, ya know!	[17:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00081905 = 28.0115 BTC [-]	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	i guess nobody today remembers machlup as the initiator of the "information economy" concept	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	i read the wiki, i know plenty!	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	aok	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	hehe, not really	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	sad he dies 3/10ths into his plan	[17:22]
nubbins`	http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=cotton&months=60	[17:24]
ozbot	Cotton - Daily Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi	[17:24]
nubbins`	^ for a while there, t-shirts REALLY weren't free	[17:24]
mircea_popescu	the price of cotton figures what, 18 cents in the cost fo a tshirt ?	[17:25]
mircea_popescu	http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-who-enjoys-thing-informed-he-is-wrong,7057/	[17:26]
ozbot	Man Who Enjoys Thing Informed He Is Wrong \| The Onion - America's Finest News Source	[17:26]
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JoeyMe	c	[17:28]
nubbins`	not sure of the exact numbers, but the price of a shirt was roughly 2x today's price when that was happening	[17:28]
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nubbins`	hahahahahahahaha @ article	[17:30]
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nubbins`	why didn't himmelsbaugh consult an appropriate authority before assuming that he enjoyed the thing?	[17:35]
nubbins`	what an idiot	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	totally.	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	so i'm reading old logs : Jun 21 14:49:17 well it was 1/4 bn earlier thisd year	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	apparently what goes around comes around.	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	http://www.activistpost.com/2013/11/irs-to-jail-woman-who-owes-0-in-taxes.html	[17:46]
ozbot	Activist Post: IRS to Jail Woman Who Owes $0 in Taxes, Seeks Jury Nullification	[17:46]
kleeck	How dare she?!	[17:46]
kakobrekla	http://bitbet.us/bet/508/btc-network-difficulty-to-top-500mn-before-xmas/	[17:50]
kakobrekla	hits 200btc	[17:50]
ozbot	BitBet - BTC network difficulty to top 500MN before Xmas 2013	[17:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.819 = 1.638 BTC [+]	[17:51]
kakobrekla	;;bc,stats	[17:51]
gribble	Current Blocks: 267926 \| Current Difficulty: 3.9092878763808584E8 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 268127 \| Next Difficulty In: 201 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 0 hours, 14 minutes, and 28 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 515663290.372 \| Estimated Percent Change: 31.90722	[17:51]
kakobrekla	aha.	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	crazy shot	[17:52]
kakobrekla	feels like 2011	[17:52]
mircea_popescu	tghen people want btc to go down. well how the fuck.	[17:53]
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ThickAsThieves	http://bitbet.us/bet/519/btc-network-difficulty-to-top-1b-before-2014/	[17:57]
ozbot	BitBet - BTC network difficulty to top 1B before 2014	[17:58]
ThickAsThieves	where's the 200btc on that one?	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	1bn doesn't seem so unlikely nao.	[17:58]
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asciilifeform	now would be the perfect time for an 'asteroid' event (e.g. somebody gets SATCOIN hasher working.)	[17:58]
ThickAsThieves	very likely	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	what's satcoin ?	[17:59]
asciilifeform	or, anybody still alive knows how to wrangle gallium arsenide logic?	[17:59]
asciilifeform	satcoin: http://jheusser.github.io/2013/02/03/satcoin.html	[18:00]
dexX7	people say a sat-solver is useless, because it would only provide an advantage, if sha is broken	[18:00]
mircea_popescu	sat solving my foot.	[18:00]
asciilifeform	dexX7: not necessarily. more efficient mining doesn't need a SAT solution in the general case.	[18:00]
asciilifeform	just as RSA-breaking has not been proven to require fast factoring.	[18:01]
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mircea_popescu	maybe i'm rusty, but afaik mining != sha(sha(block+nonce))	[18:01]
asciilifeform	the cookie jar is far too full for somebody not to try an interesting an unorthodox approach to empty it.	[18:02]
dexX7	i like the idea	[18:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00081903 = 2.1704 BTC [-]	[18:02]
asciilifeform	but maybe that's like thinking that a sufficiently juicy chunk of rotten meat, placed on the moon, will somehow attract flies.	[18:02]
dexX7	or let's say the idea of trying something unconventional :)	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	i think the moon simile carries.	[18:03]
asciilifeform	maybe some wealthy joker ought to fund a 'Perimeter Institute' for btc.	[18:04]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 19 @ 0.0552 = 1.0488 BTC [-]	[18:07]
asciilifeform	here's a lead for anybody who wants to play: http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/adrianth/ascot/paper/paper.html	[18:07]
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asciilifeform	dollars to doughnuts, hypothetical 'superminer' would be an ultimately analog system. with no well-understood explanation for why it works.	[18:09]
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asciilifeform	bz-bzzz. where are the other flies on this dusty space rock...	[18:11]
jurov	mh, human brain falls into that definition, too :)	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know flies require an atmosphere	[18:12]
asciilifeform	right.	[18:12]
jurov	pity it can do n-th sqare roots better than modulo 32 arithmetic	[18:12]
asciilifeform	hence the pristine meat.	[18:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 253 @ 0.001092 = 0.2763 BTC [+]	[18:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00081905 = 5.9791 BTC [+]	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform anyway, if I get a parrot that extracts correct nonces out of a bag, i don't have a miner.	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	i have a coincidental parrot.	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	even if i crack 1000 consecutive blocks in half an hour.	[18:16]
kakobrekla	how much for the parrot	[18:16]
asciilifeform	any reason such a beast wouldn't function as a miner?	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	anamazing parrot!	[18:16]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[18:16]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform same reason a girl wearing a funny hat doesn't function as the emperess of china.	[18:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: think it would wake people up into the dynamic-workfunction heresy?	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	if the shaman heals you he's still no doctor, even should the mage light up a fire he's still no matchstick	[18:18]
asciilifeform	the mage can still burn the village to the ground	[18:18]
asciilifeform	even if he has no idea why his stick-rubbing touched off the flame.	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	but it wouldn't be a flamethrower, it'd just be a lucky freak.	[18:18]
asciilifeform	right	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense this isn't a discussion about mining,	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	this is a discussion about what if god gets your wife pregnant.	[18:19]
asciilifeform	it's more a discussion of 'asteroid event.'	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	right.	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	if messiah comes tomorrow riding a box of flaming fans	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	this perhaps will have an impact, let's discuss it :D	[18:20]
asciilifeform	one would have to smoke some serious strange to believe that the concept of workfunction is vulnerable in the general case.	[18:20]
asciilifeform	but it is quite certainly so in the specific instance currently in use.	[18:20]
asciilifeform	all of this reminds me of a story told about General Curtis LeMay	[18:21]
asciilifeform	it is said that he never spat out his enormous cigar, and once appeared with such near a bomber at a fueling pump	[18:22]
asciilifeform	a grunt, risking court martial, asked the general to put out his smoke	[18:22]
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asciilifeform	given that the whole shebang 'might explode'	[18:22]
asciilifeform	to which the general replied - 'it wouldn't dare.'	[18:22]
asciilifeform	the static workfunction is not entirely unlike this cigar.	[18:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.815 BTC [-]	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	good story.	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Curtis_LeMay_(USAF).jpg	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	no cigar.	[18:30]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00269 = 0.269 BTC [-]	[18:36]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.0552 = 0.2208 BTC [-]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 38 @ 0.0552 = 2.0976 BTC [-]	[18:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 240 @ 0.00109498 = 0.2628 BTC [+]	[18:58]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/bitbet-october-2013-statement/	[19:01]
ozbot	BitBet, October 2013 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	bitbet in the red!	[19:02]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1350 @ 0.00022 = 0.297 BTC [-]	[19:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00081903 = 3.5628 BTC [-]	[19:18]
nubbins`	i'm so fucking addled	[19:21]
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nubbins`	sick of dealing with subhumans	[19:23]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 4 @ 0.375 = 1.5 BTC [-]	[19:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.1493 = 0.2986 BTC [-]	[19:37]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00260848 = 0.1069 BTC [-] {5}	[19:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 4959 @ 0.0025356 = 12.574 BTC [-] {7}	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0077899 = 0.3116 BTC [+] {2}	[19:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5076 @ 0.00081758 = 4.15 BTC [-]	[19:46]

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