Forum logs for 01 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

ben_vulpes	i've been trying to read the tinyscheme sources	[00:05]
ben_vulpes	did not know that tear ducts could weep blood	[00:05]
phf	ben_vulpes: ideally you'd want to read this first http://www.amazon.com/Lisp-Small-Pieces-Christian-Queinnec/dp/0521545668	[00:11]
assbot	Lisp in Small Pieces: Christian Queinnec, Kathleen Callaway: 9780521545662: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/20havAw )	[00:11]
phf	or rather instead :D	[00:15]
ben_vulpes	hm	[00:15]
ben_vulpes	one of the things that remains a mystery to me is the recompilation facilities supporting slime et al	[00:16]
ben_vulpes	although that's probably more accurately strictly a SBCL thing.	[00:16]
ben_vulpes	a hundred and eleven fucking dollars!?	[00:17]
ben_vulpes	seventy six eighty on MOTHERFUCKING KINDLE?!	[00:17]
ben_vulpes	I WILL NOTE	[00:17]
ben_vulpes	NOT	[00:17]
phf	:D	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	awww, but all this technology was here to make books cheap and accessible!	[00:18]
BingoBoingo	Hey, Amazon will buy your copy for a $25 gift card though!	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	what, you thought they're only selling at 0.95 for a few years until barnes and noble goes under ?	[00:18]
ben_vulpes	the notion that there is any price for bits not agreed upon by a bid by people who want the bits and an opening of the floodgates by those who have them at an accepable rate is utter horseshit.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	the notion of some retard somewhere paying a hundred he actually worked for so as to receive a pdf still makes me chuckle.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	next whores'll be paying to get ramed.	[00:19]
ben_vulpes	those curly horns don't look too fun, but whaddoiknow	[00:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00056672 = 42.9574 BTC [+]	[00:20]
phf	of course per ascii's oft repeated point there's a russian translation, on github, https://github.com/ilammy/lisp	[00:22]
assbot	ilammy/lisp - TeX - GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/20hbVv1 )	[00:22]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: know anything about deleuze and guatarri in the context of intertextuality?	[00:24]
ben_vulpes	guattari*	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	...	[00:24]
copypaste	i have a kindle, but never use the store feature.	[00:24]
ben_vulpes	that'd be a no then?	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	that'd be a wtf is wrong with you.	[00:25]
copypaste	also, i liked your attempt at the merchant rewrite mircea_popescu :)	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	lol k	[00:25]
BingoBoingo	If you need to invoke intertextuality for any reason, your problem is likely wrong.	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	i also know something about finkielkraut and that other fuckwit in the context of amorous disorder.	[00:26]
ben_vulpes	i don't know anything about the topic!	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	ask better questions.	[00:26]
BingoBoingo	Maybe people can actually use it in french, but in the English language if you invoke it, there is a near certainty you and your problem are wrong.	[00:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109479 @ 0.00056618 = 61.9848 BTC [-] {5}	[00:27]
B0g4r7_	bad_duck BananaLotus ben_vulpes BigBitz BingoBoingo bounce	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	you read it, incidentally, ben_vulpes ?	[00:28]
ben_vulpes	what 'it'	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	;;google le Nouveau desordre amoureux	[00:29]
gribble	Le Nouveau Désordre amoureux — Wikipédia: ; PhilO - Pascal Bruckner - Le nouveau désordre amoureux (16 juin ...: ; «Tout le monde couchait avec tout le monde» - L'Express:	[00:29]
phf	Foucault!	[00:30]
ben_vulpes	i did debord a while ago	[00:30]
ben_vulpes	but no, i am a classically poorly-read american.	[00:31]
ben_vulpes	still working through scip, and even that's deficit spending.	[00:31]
phf	i spent some time playing a lot of kriegspiel with a friend of mine	[00:34]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Bitcoin Foundation Address Recap: Next Release Imminent, Shiva Introduced - http://qntra.net/2016/02/bitcoin-foundation-address-recap-next-release-imminent-shiva-introduced/	[00:35]
phf	ben_vulpes: http://r-s-g.org/kriegspiel/about.php	[00:36]
assbot	Kriegspiel -- About: Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/20hdxES )	[00:37]
ben_vulpes	nifty, BingoBoingo	[00:38]
BingoBoingo	ty ben_vulpes	[00:38]
ben_vulpes	perhaps reference Bitcoin implementation instead of daemon, as daemon refers to how a process gets handled by whatever nix is handling procs locally	[00:38]
ben_vulpes	i will continue to drive for "reference implementation" over "real bitcoin" or such grandiosities	[00:39]
*	HostFat has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	anyway, to summarize a century or two of purely french wankery for the benefit of the youthful lisper : what the publish&perish industry did in english on the basis of the bastardized electronic typewriter known as excel is not NEW in any sense, but merely a reimplementation of a traditional french passtime, originally played on more primitive instruments.	[00:41]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Until it's BitcoinOS it's a daemon. It's important to refer to it as a number of descriptive things for legacy www reasons.	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	deleuze is exactly a worthless word pusher, trying to do "the x of y" like any silicon valley wanna-be. his "x of the y" is a silly "no identity exists save as a piling-on of differences"	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	but basically, and transparently, the driving force behind him, and the whole rest, is "what could we further say".	[00:42]
BingoBoingo	Oh, so basically a different Derrida wank	[00:42]
ben_vulpes	i'm always interested in finding the root nodes the 'further say'ers metastasized from	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	have we said that the icecream is square ? o ? how about the square is icecream ? that too? hmm... "icecream square is that" no ?	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	HA! IDEA! \|	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	but these are treacherous waters and really not advisable for the innocent.	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	especially seeing how there's exactly no benefit to be had.	[00:44]
phf	point illustrated by brion gysin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw9dmLCdgyI	[00:44]
assbot	Brion Gysin - I Am [1960] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/201SzVe )	[00:44]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Husserl is something of a root node, you can get to him through kant->Fichte->Hegel->Marx	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	oh, and your mentioning kant reminds me : the whole "time is imposed by the observer" nonsense, also.	[00:45]
BingoBoingo	Distinct problem though is lots of oversized patches in this V graph	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	al these khagne idjits'd have benefitted immensely from a modest physical education.	[00:45]
BingoBoingo	Well, what other conclusion is a bored German to come to?	[00:45]
BingoBoingo	He came from Prussia, not a Germany with clocks at the time	[00:46]
mircea_popescu	not that time's a prime order concept, but that it's both sad and unbecoming to field the matter with antiquated flintlocks left from 1700.	[00:46]
mircea_popescu	there's a lot more intelligent things to say about time, and certainly better doubts to present than "oh it's secreted by observation". especially in the fucking 60s.	[00:46]
BingoBoingo	It's a problem of making V patches too big, turds find a way	[00:46]
BingoBoingo	Or drugs	[00:50]
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*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[01:19]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes: heh. i was actually taking a look at that trilema earlier today. if gabrielradio wants to lay the foundation, i'd be happy to build the house.	[01:20]
pete_dushenski	;;later tell gabrielradio http://trilema.com/2010/inca-o-pozitie-sexuala/ cheers!	[01:20]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:20]
assbot	Inca o pozitie sexuala on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQKamU )	[01:20]
pete_dushenski	http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/31/consumerism-reached-peak-stuff-search-for-happiness <-- not a terrible read on how 'normies' reconcile --> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-01-2016#1387675	[01:22]
assbot	If having more no longer satisfies us, perhaps we’ve reached ‘peak stuff’ \| Will Hutton \| Opinion \| The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1OZE1Cp )	[01:22]
assbot	Logged on 28-01-2016 13:21:58; mircea_popescu: it's a combination of multisecular trends. one is a hate of plastics, that has been brewing for at least five decades. the other is a hate of self, that;s been brewing since ww2, and that expresses itself variously, but for instance in current "carbon"-ecology.	[01:22]
pete_dushenski	in summa : "we should be less individualistic and more like the cattle we properly are. let's stop pretending to be something we're not"	[01:25]
pete_dushenski	which isn't half-bad advice	[01:26]
pete_dushenski	now, to digest 1k lines...	[01:26]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391519 << /me starting to appreciate v-power ! (and no, not the shell gasoline)	[01:40]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 19:22:50; phf: oh, if you remove joe from wot, v finds an alternative path	[01:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139050 @ 0.00056188 = 78.1294 BTC [-] {2}	[01:46]
BingoBoingo	Both 25 https://i.imgur.com/zESeXKh.jpg	[01:53]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PKLToA )	[01:53]
*	Norbiss (~Norbiss@garza.riseup.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77086 @ 0.0005599 = 43.1605 BTC [-] {2}	[01:54]
*	raedah has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[01:56]
pete_dushenski	http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/31/teenage-girl-made-up-migrant-claim-that-caused-uproar-in-germany << in related nyooz, 'lisa' is 13yo. no pic but guessing she's not a beached whale, or else no one would've believed her for even a minute.	[01:57]
assbot	Teenage girl admits making up migrant rape claim that outraged Germany \| World news \| The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tw1i24 )	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	so are we going to believe the admission of the girl that admits she lied ?	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	or are we going to think she was true the first time and is lying now ?	[01:58]
pete_dushenski	yea, maybe she has allahusnackbarstockholm syndrome	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	well moreover, a lot of people would a whole lot rather believe it never happened. so...	[01:59]
pete_dushenski	i'd leave a comment bringing this very point up but... the guardian has disabled all comments.	[02:00]
pete_dushenski	too uncomfortabru	[02:00]
BingoBoingo	"But when she was questioned by trained specialists three days later “she immediately admitted that the story of the rape was not true”, said the spokesman for the state prosecutor, Martin Steltner. "	[02:05]
BingoBoingo	"TRAINED SPECIALISTS"	[02:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77881 @ 0.00056162 = 43.7395 BTC [+] {2}	[02:07]
asciilifeform	ok where do i start...	[02:09]
BingoBoingo	Prolly by making a pot of coffee before you settle down.	[02:09]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391701 << dafuq	[02:10]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 20:22:51; mod6: http://dpaste.com/1AVK5ZP.txt	[02:10]
asciilifeform	IT BUILDS FINE HERE	[02:10]
asciilifeform	and runs, correctly	[02:10]
asciilifeform	ver string - sets, ver num - likewise.	[02:10]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391701 << this looks like mod6 kept left-over crud from old linker run and it choked on it	[02:11]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 20:22:51; mod6: http://dpaste.com/1AVK5ZP.txt	[02:11]
asciilifeform	always make -f makefile.unix clean	[02:12]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391844 << i will move to the bottom of the sea, email will not begin to work again	[02:13]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 21:48:22; mircea_popescu: hey alf, how about you move out of the us ? hm ? HM ?	[02:13]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391858 <<< aaaaand this is where we learn that NOBODY READS THE MOTHERFUCKING LOGZ	[02:14]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 21:56:45; ben_vulpes: anyways, mod6 you gotta upgrade v.pl to press all reachable leaves. that's the problem i'm running into with asciilifeform's recent shiva rebake	[02:14]
asciilifeform	>>>>>> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388421 <<<<<<<	[02:14]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff	[02:14]
asciilifeform	^^^^^ mandatory thread ^^^^^	[02:14]
asciilifeform	tinyscheme genesis is NOT PART OF TRB !!1111111111111	[02:14]
asciilifeform	was never meant to be !	[02:15]
asciilifeform	stop trying to press it!	[02:15]
asciilifeform	it was the only way i could think of to nail down the lineage from virginal tinyscheme to shiva !1	[02:15]
asciilifeform	gnudiff is RETARDED and doesn't let you rename files!	[02:15]
asciilifeform	except by IDIOTICALLY minusing the whole shebang and plussing it back in under new name	[02:16]
asciilifeform	fuckwads	[02:16]
asciilifeform	who thought this was acceptable	[02:16]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> IT BUILDS FINE HERE << huh, maybe i didn't clean?? i'll try again.	[02:16]
asciilifeform	mod6: from your log, seems like it	[02:16]
mod6	thanks for taking a look at that. did you see my replacement patch then?	[02:17]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391899 << i looked in the prb crud when we had this thread, found no such thing, recall	[02:17]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 22:16:46; mircea_popescu: i originally thought so but research in here shows that no, it's never checked.	[02:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12968 @ 0.00055763 = 7.2313 BTC [-] {2}	[02:18]
asciilifeform	mod6: did that one work ?	[02:18]
mod6	mine? should have. is basically the same as yours just instead with 'extern int VERSION;'	[02:18]
mod6	gotta get it to link correctly tho.	[02:19]
asciilifeform	did you make it directly from my 2 patches (old + new) ?	[02:19]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392316 << People kept confusing low/high-s malleabillity with the DER encoding business	[02:19]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 05:16:50; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391899 << i looked in the prb crud when we had this thread, found no such thing, recall	[02:19]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: aha	[02:19]
BingoBoingo	For MONTHS	[02:19]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: this kind of confusion can only come from not actually reading the src	[02:19]
asciilifeform	nothing quite compares to the magical power of actually reading things...	[02:19]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391956 << wai-wut?!1 wtf	[02:20]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 22:33:31; mircea_popescu: anyone thinking diapers are cheap is not-poor in the us	[02:20]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> did you make it directly from my 2 patches (old + new) ? << no didn't even try that yet. just went straight into integration of both into one. kinda got side tracked with the SoBA and then watched some xfiles. heheh.	[02:20]
asciilifeform	what else is secretly not-cheap, officially, that i had nfi about? ? toiler paper?	[02:20]
*	BingoBoingo prolly going to pick up dead tree SICP in the next month or so	[02:20]
asciilifeform	mod6: if it was not made from my patches directly, it is possible that you have a mistake.	[02:20]
pete_dushenski	myea, i don't think we go through $1/day of diapers	[02:20]
pete_dushenski	maybe $2. tops.	[02:21]
mod6	yeah, i dunno, i got the same problem again just now.	[02:21]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391977 << see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392304 plox	[02:21]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 22:38:37; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you confirm that tinyscheme_genesis_fixed.vpatch does not depend on shiva parts one and two?	[02:21]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 05:13:31; asciilifeform: ^^^^^ mandatory thread ^^^^^	[02:21]
mod6	even after a clean.	[02:21]
asciilifeform	mod6: try and actually make it from ~my~ patches.	[02:21]
mod6	yah, will try here now.	[02:22]
asciilifeform	you quite likely have a mistake in there.	[02:22]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391993 << again, phf also plz see mandatory thread.	[02:22]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 22:44:06; phf: so i dropped patches from "[BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge." but i'm still missing something so they are just hanging there separately, http://104.131.72.249/patches/	[02:22]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1392015 << that one, interestingly, WORKS	[02:23]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 22:48:49; mircea_popescu: i guess i fucked it up when putting it on trilema ? asciilifeform ^ mind saying what the above link does ?	[02:23]
asciilifeform	('chromium')	[02:23]
ben_vulpes	yes yes, gnudiff is retarded	[02:24]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392194 << you know, could always ask me, and get the l3333337 w4r3z	[02:25]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 03:15:55; ben_vulpes: a hundred and eleven fucking dollars!?	[02:25]
ben_vulpes	ask me how many fuxx i give when trying to wire patches	[02:25]
asciilifeform	don't trade with the enemy, just say no to paying for bits.	[02:25]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: joy of deficit spending here is that i complain about price of bits and find they're free.	[02:25]
ben_vulpes	share a ware?	[02:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00055752 = 35.6534 BTC [-] {2}	[02:26]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: seeing it yet ?	[02:27]
ben_vulpes	dcc scares me	[02:28]
asciilifeform	then where do you want it	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	a gpggram would be lovely, or a .tgz i can scrape down from your server	[02:28]
asciilifeform	too big	[02:28]
*	ben_vulpes snaps a laptop	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	thank you for pointing out the inadequacy of everything.	[02:29]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: do please to dcc again	[02:30]
asciilifeform	l0l it was 15 years since i last did this	[02:31]
ben_vulpes	motherfucker.	[02:31]
ben_vulpes	perhaps only ten for me.	[02:31]
ben_vulpes	eh maybe thirtee.	[02:31]
asciilifeform	no go ?	[02:31]
ben_vulpes	i don't think erc actually worx.	[02:31]
mod6	asciilifeform: yeah, i dunno what i screwed up with that integration patch of mine, but yeah, your vpatch fix pressed and compiled fine.	[02:32]
asciilifeform	anyway ben_vulpes and everybody else can have 133333337 w4r3z when they can come up with a place for it to go.	[02:32]
asciilifeform	mod6: cool	[02:32]
mod6	thanks!	[02:32]
asciilifeform	toldya it wurx	[02:32]
mod6	my apologies	[02:33]
asciilifeform	np	[02:33]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: how big is it?	[02:33]
asciilifeform	~40M	[02:33]
asciilifeform	mod6: you will notice that it works on shiva branch also.	[02:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35907 @ 0.00056188 = 20.1754 BTC [+] {2}	[02:34]
ben_vulpes	erc complains of :host 0.0.0.199	[02:34]
ben_vulpes	which yes, i'd complain of as well	[02:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66526 @ 0.00056332 = 37.4754 BTC [+] {2}	[02:35]
mod6	Bitcoin version 0.9.99.98	[02:35]
asciilifeform	mod6: wai wut	[02:35]
asciilifeform	counting to what, zero ?	[02:35]
*	renart (~renart@67-5-208-181.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:36]
asciilifeform	gonna step through 0.5.3 again, .2, .1 ??	[02:36]
ben_vulpes	!up renart	[02:36]
ben_vulpes	mother shit fucker	[02:36]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> counting to what, zero ? << it did show in the log already when i started with -setvernum=99998	[02:36]
mod6	so far, this is good.	[02:36]
ben_vulpes	am i authed or not	[02:36]
mod6	gonna check getinfo in a sec.	[02:37]
asciilifeform	mod6: try to also understand where the original mistake was.	[02:37]
asciilifeform	(it is educational)	[02:37]
*	assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes	[02:37]
asciilifeform	mine, that is	[02:37]
ben_vulpes	!up renart	[02:37]
*	assbot gives voice to renart	[02:37]
mod6	# ps ax \| grep bitcoind && LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getinfo \| grep version	[02:37]
mod6	22877 pts/1 SLl 0:54 ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=188.68.240.159 -setverstring=trb -setvernum=99998	[02:37]
mod6	22900 pts/1 S+ 0:00 grep --colour=auto bitcoind "version" : 99998,	[02:37]
renart	asciilifeform: for lulz, dcc it to me again?	[02:37]
mod6	looks good	[02:38]
asciilifeform	'no route to host'	[02:38]
mod6	there is supposed to be a line break up here ^ but didn't translate through the copy	[02:38]
mod6	i'll see if i can figure out wtf I did differently tomorrow.	[02:38]
renart	a well	[02:38]
*	renart has quit (Client Quit)	[02:38]
mod6	ok will look again at it tomorrow. thanks ascii, g'night!	[02:39]
asciilifeform	goodnight mod6	[02:39]
*	asciilifeform bbl.	[02:40]
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ben_vulpes	also how is 40M too large for a webserver?	[02:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13435 @ 0.00055867 = 7.5057 BTC [-]	[03:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46273 @ 0.00056055 = 25.9383 BTC [+] {2}	[03:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28831 @ 0.00056578 = 16.312 BTC [+] {2}	[03:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00056358 = 25.1357 BTC [-] {3}	[03:42]
BingoBoingo	https://i.imgur.com/Xi5uJMF.png	[03:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KkMoJV )	[03:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44550 @ 0.0005571 = 24.8188 BTC [-] {4}	[03:44]
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BingoBoingo	http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/allstar/2016/01/31/john-scott-all-star-game-nashville-goal/79611074/	[03:54]
assbot	John Scott scores twice, named MVP after leading Pacific to All-Star win ... ( http://bit.ly/1KkNm8W )	[03:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104100 @ 0.00056602 = 58.9227 BTC [+] {3}	[03:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00056671 = 8.8973 BTC [+]	[04:05]
ben_vulpes	lol even vex has commentary on the dccpisode	[04:08]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk5Df_lDD38	[04:09]
assbot	The Streets - Stay Positive - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KkP8al )	[04:09]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 401 @ 0.0035 = 1.4035 BTC [+]	[04:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72700 @ 0.00056661 = 41.1925 BTC [-]	[05:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17386 @ 0.00056661 = 9.8511 BTC [-]	[05:42]
danielpbarron	deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0019PDB.txt	[05:51]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QQYRXa )	[05:51]
deedbot-	imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14	[05:51]
danielpbarron	;;later tell felipelalli ^^^ also >> http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot#synopsis	[05:52]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[05:52]
assbot	irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1RVey0C )	[05:52]
danielpbarron	deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw/Bd3Qg7aW	[05:53]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QQXFTR )	[05:53]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[05:53]
*	danielpbarron bows	[05:53]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391285 << ok but please bear with me; i think i should stop my current bitcoind, make a backup, and start this one fresh. I'm not really set up for running two at once at the moment.	[06:02]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 18:13:52; mod6: danielpbarron: hey there Sir, wanna update the wiki & test the steps from a newb standpoint when you get a moment? Y^	[06:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134300 @ 0.00056671 = 76.1092 BTC [+]	[06:28]
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danielpbarron	>> Sometimes regular expressions can get messy. That's what she sed. << found on twatter. laughed.	[07:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54400 @ 0.00056671 = 30.829 BTC [+]	[07:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00056652 = 3.1725 BTC [-] {2}	[07:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00056621 = 25.0831 BTC [-]	[07:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.00056684 = 45.1205 BTC [+] {3}	[08:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100552 @ 0.00056612 = 56.9245 BTC [-] {5}	[08:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138624 @ 0.00056278 = 78.0148 BTC [-] {5}	[08:47]
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punkman	re:deleuze&guattari: Once upon a time I was scrolling through a big pile 1337 w4r3z, and I saw "A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and I thought "maybe that'll be interesting". I opened it on my crappy ebook tablet, flipped through some pages. The moment I thought "this shit's unreadable isn't it", the tablet died, never to come back.	[09:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.00056323 = 8.195 BTC [+] {2}	[09:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 284750 @ 0.00056144 = 159.87 BTC [-] {3}	[09:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00056671 = 73.8423 BTC [+] {4}	[09:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64200 @ 0.00056339 = 36.1696 BTC [-] {2}	[10:08]
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polarbeard	mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: here is the logging patch split up in three: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/ccf92c5f83753a03370a, https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/38b7835cb5f7863d4547 and https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/621f39b7cf21d736400e	[10:24]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nYHJn7 )	[10:24]
assbot	polarbeard_better_log_messages.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1nYHMiI )	[10:24]
assbot	polarbeard_fix_instance_print.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1nYHKay )	[10:24]
mircea_popescu	danke, will look.	[10:24]
mircea_popescu	finishing a little earth shatter of my own right now :D	[10:24]
polarbeard	:)	[10:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39857 @ 0.00056702 = 22.5997 BTC [+] {2}	[10:40]
*	assbot gives voice to copypaste	[10:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34843 @ 0.00056711 = 19.7598 BTC [+] {2}	[10:41]
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copypaste	kakobrekla: I'd like to make a request if you have a moment. When I get my OTP from assbot, it sends the header `Content-Type: application/json; charset=utf-8` ... This causes my browser to incorrectly interpret GnuPG documents as JSON, so it spews annoying errors which prevent me from just doing Ctrl-A Ctrl-C...to wit, "There was an error parsing the JSON document. The document may not be	[10:43]
copypaste	well-formed." "unexpected character at line 1 column 1 "	[10:43]
kakobrekla	changed to 'text/plain' if that helps	[10:47]
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*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[10:48]
PeterL	http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/81b25113-e9e7-485d-995a-b13e790305ae/?raw=true << so I just restarted bitcoind, using -connect to all the trb nodes in the wiki, it looks like only Inciatus is letting me connect, the rest are refusing my connection?	[10:49]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Q6Vh6q )	[10:50]
PeterL	It looks like it is going through the list, trying to connect to each node and repeatedly getting disconnected, should I stop it and restart only connect to the one node which is connected?	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	are you on aws ?	[10:52]
PeterL	no	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	this should probably be debugged.	[10:53]
PeterL	well I am connected to something, not sure which one it is	[10:56]
kakobrekla	you must be getting banned by that banhammer patch	[10:57]
copypaste	kakobrekla: yes, text/plain is perfect. thanks	[10:58]
kakobrekla	k	[10:58]
jurov	http://www.projectnatick.com/ m$ heard alf and going underwater	[10:59]
assbot	Project Natick ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q6WL0L )	[10:59]
jurov	straight from horse's mouth: "With the end of Moore’s Law, the cadence at which servers are refreshed with new and improved hardware in the datacenter is likely to slow significantly."	[10:59]
PeterL	Now I have 3 connections	[11:00]
PeterL	is there a way to list the connections?	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	hey, ~i~ said moore law's dead!	[11:05]
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BingoBoingo	Who's racis now? http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/white-officers-slower-to-shoot-black-suspects-new-study-finds/article_b4c9fb58-49eb-5a34-8ab8-d97b7307f667.html	[11:19]
assbot	White officers slower to shoot black suspects, new study finds : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1KltEdb )	[11:19]
BingoBoingo	"But the study also showed that when holding guns in more realistic simulations, the same officers were faster to shoot whites."	[11:20]
BingoBoingo	"The report says that in realistic situations, the officers waited about a quarter of a second longer to shoot armed black men than white — and they fired by mistake on unarmed white men three times more often than on blacks."	[11:20]
mircea_popescu	;;nethash	[11:21]
gribble	1064249248.94	[11:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.00056712 = 30.9648 BTC [+]	[11:23]
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mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes mod6 if teh esteemed foundation'd give an opinion on http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ kthx.	[11:24]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q70TOa )	[11:24]
*	assbot gives voice to polarbeard	[11:24]
polarbeard	PeterL: getpeerinfo@0.7.0, it needs to be backported: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/1006f0707e34f8903f247195dabd86243ae61f05	[11:25]
assbot	RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q715gi )	[11:25]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: is there any reason against that one? I miss it too	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	they'll prolly want to do it in scheme now. but anyway, if you want it for production reasons, go right ahead.	[11:26]
jurov	mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform : do I understand right sha512 is hardwired in V? is there a space for sane upgrade path?	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	jurov rebasing.	[11:27]
polarbeard	aha I see, but maybe ascii can trash the jsonrpc part and keep the functionality itself?	[11:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133423 @ 0.00056497 = 75.38 BTC [-] {3}	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard it won't hurt anything writing a backport patch for it if you feel like it.	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	whether it'll be used or not is unclear, so i wouldn't TELL you to do it, but if you want to do it by all means.	[11:28]
polarbeard	all right	[11:29]
BingoBoingo	polarbeard: But if you could write that funtionality in Scheme, you might get some love for it.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo for the record, the one most important factor in how long they wait to shoot should be and probably is "how weird this shit is".	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	as in they'd prolly shoot aliens even faster. so in this sense, the study's useless without looking at what environment those guys operate in.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo eh it's unclear whether that can be done just yet or not. whole different kettle of soup.	[11:31]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I dunno, they shot Lavoy Finicum pretty fast.	[11:31]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392285 << i should hope these were the same "trained specialists" that started the wholly hallucinated "family abuse" moral panic of the 90s.	[11:32]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 05:04:44; BingoBoingo: "But when she was questioned by trained specialists three days later “she immediately admitted that the story of the rape was not true”, said the spokesman for the state prosecutor, Martin Steltner. "	[11:32]
mircea_popescu	what a grand time for the state that was! for the first time ever it got its way with everyones' children	[11:32]
polarbeard	BingoBoingo: that's a good idea, I'll try after backporting this one	[11:32]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well it's the german "trained experts" so who knows	[11:33]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell pete_dushenski https://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#c5602 I believe	[11:33]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[11:33]
assbot	BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No \| closed 1 day 14 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q72HH2 )	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392316 << i do.	[11:33]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 05:16:50; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391899 << i looked in the prb crud when we had this thread, found no such thing, recall	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392335 << poverty limit. ask the world bank :D	[11:35]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 05:19:55; pete_dushenski: myea, i don't think we go through $1/day of diapers	[11:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48809 @ 0.00056424 = 27.54 BTC [-] {2}	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392451 << it's readable in the sense every other contemporary industrial process is "machineable" or "approachable" or whatever. with heavy equipment, not with bare hands and eyes.	[11:39]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 11:59:31; punkman: re:deleuze&guattari: Once upon a time I was scrolling through a big pile 1337 w4r3z, and I saw "A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and I thought "maybe that'll be interesting". I opened it on my crappy ebook tablet, flipped through some pages. The moment I thought "this shit's unreadable isn't it", the tablet died, never to come back.	[11:39]
deedbot-	[Trilema] The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol - http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard don't put commas immediately after urls it fucks things up	[11:40]
polarbeard	ok	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	perhaps i'm not understanding something, but where's all the list of fixed returns ?	[11:41]
polarbeard	fixed returns?	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	your original thing had a lot of - return ; + return (hey we fucked up at %d);	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	oh last one nm	[11:42]
phf	jurov: v uses hash as a lookup key, so in that sense algo agnostic. you can mix and match as long as from and to hashes linkup	[11:42]
polarbeard	ok, anyway here is the old for reference: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613	[11:43]
assbot	polarbeard_logging_sanity.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KewosO )	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard do you have the tags you use enumerated anywhere ?	[11:46]
polarbeard	enumerated as an actual enum?	[11:47]
polarbeard	they're defined here, https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/38b7835cb5f7863d4547#file-polarbeard_better_log_messages-vpatch-L2029-L2039	[11:47]
assbot	polarbeard_better_log_messages.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KlwJtP )	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	omfg what is the purpose of putting clicable line numbers in github if all they do is blink. GIMME AN ANCHOR MOTHERFUCKING IDIOTS	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	wait that works ?	[11:48]
polarbeard	lol :D	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/38b7835cb5f7863d4547-L67	[11:49]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KlwRcM )	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	omfg how do you get it ?	[11:49]
polarbeard	do they blink? what do you use mosaic? :D	[11:49]
polarbeard	click on first line number, then second, it makes a range	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	not here.	[11:50]
polarbeard	oh sorry, hold shift to make a range	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	anyway, dbenv.set_lg_max(1000000); < wut ?	[11:50]
phf	mircea_popescu: http://104.131.72.249/patches/polarbeard_better_log_messages#selection-1149.0-1189.1	[11:50]
assbot	polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q75zUc )	[11:50]
polarbeard	oh, yep nice catch	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	bless you phf!	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	ok polarbeard if you don't mind we'll use his version it's about 500 times better than github	[11:51]
BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/694060508953968644	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	phf d oyou want a domain name ? hosting ?	[11:52]
polarbeard	haha	[11:53]
polarbeard	shithub.com	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	sooo...	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	+#define SERR "ERR "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SWAR "WAR "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SINF "INF "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SPRC "PRC "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SMEM "MEM "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SADR "ADR "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SBLK "BLK "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SNET "NET "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SWAL "WAL "	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	+#define SMIN "MIN "	[11:54]
phf	mircea_popescu: a domain name	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	any idea what these are ? how they were selected ? etc ?	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	phf lemme see what i have.	[11:54]
phf	mircea_popescu: just point whatever you have to that ip, and i'll fix the settings to get it working	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	you have a ns ?	[11:55]
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phf	no	[11:55]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: you mean how those macro strings are actually used?	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	i dunno if you see this, but the way the flags are set impacts many people downstream.	[11:56]
polarbeard	hows that?	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	because if i want to search my logs ima have to use your flags.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	and they are MY logs.	[11:57]
polarbeard	propose a change?	[11:57]
*	shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	well we're not there yet, so far just asking how you designed it / how you selected the list etc.	[11:57]
polarbeard	oh, three chars were long enough to identify each label, while being short enough to not add many dead bytes to the log	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	yes but which flags are used for which kind of messages, how we select the kinds, that sorta thing	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	what's your rulebook to know what message goes in which flag ?	[11:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109991 @ 0.00056288 = 61.9117 BTC [-] {4}	[11:59]
polarbeard	ok, that requires some explanation, you're right	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	it's an important point, must be documented well.	[12:00]
polarbeard	priorities are clear? infos are totally harmless, warns alert about something actually done and errors alert about the impossibility to do something	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	well at this level yes, but we'll see more once i actually go throuygh the list, rulebook in hand.	[12:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86569 @ 0.00056138 = 48.5981 BTC [-]	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	phf how about btcbase.org ?	[12:03]
polarbeard	ok, PRC is about the process (there is only a few msgs about that one), MEM is the mempool (IO and verification), ADR is the address index, BLK is about the block index (IO and verification), NET is about all the p2p traffic, WAL is about the wallet, MIN is about the miner process	[12:04]
phf	that works	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	now lemme see how the fuck i get this ns'd.	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	phf set up an A record, should do the trick, hopefully.	[12:06]
*	shesek (~shesek@bzq-84-110-39-214.cablep.bezeqint.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard i see.	[12:13]
mircea_popescu	and these are prefixed by I W or A for info warn or alert ?	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	waht is "SINF" by this logic ?	[12:14]
polarbeard	SINF -> info, SWAR -> warn, SERR -> err	[12:14]
polarbeard	*error	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	i c!	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	anyway, as a general comment : next time start the whole process by designing this. it's a great spot to start!	[12:17]
polarbeard	yes, I need to get used to document stuff, I'll submit as much as I can to the ml if it passes	[12:19]
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BingoBoingo	Another forking Hearnia https://archive.is/4uV4m	[12:22]
assbot	Current Bitcoin XT contains a network splitting bug. Rather than behaving responsibly, the maintainers of BitcoinXT are smearing the developers of Bitcoin Core (whom had nothing to do with their bug). : bitcoinxt ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxDYQC )	[12:22]
mircea_popescu	seems like they hired solidcoin to do their strategy.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	anyone recall that 2012 brand of lolz ?	[12:26]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: Nice new trilema article.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	you can now tell all your sm friends lol.	[12:26]
BingoBoingo	I came in in time to do a pretty fresh forensics on that lol	[12:27]
thestringpuller	The r/btc will eat it up "If we include this change we may get a blocksize increase yay!!!!1111"	[12:27]
BingoBoingo	SolidCoin History: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/11/26/cycles-repeat-themselves-mcxnow/	[12:28]
assbot	Cycles Repeat Themselves: McxNow \| Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxFjH7 )	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo aha!	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard aite. ima slog through this, mind you that it's 2k lines will take hours.	[12:28]
*	Tasoshi (~Tasoshi@unaffiliated/tasoshi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	!up Tasoshi	[12:30]
-assbot-	You voiced Tasoshi for 30 minutes.	[12:30]
*	assbot gives voice to Tasoshi	[12:30]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: totally understandable, I wanted to split that ones in two steps: first adding labels and then modifying the messages, but that would have ended in having 4k lines :)	[12:32]
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mircea_popescu	no it's right as it is.	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	which is why i'm doing it.	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard http://104.131.72.249/patches/polarbeard_better_log_messages#selection-8295.32-8295.60 < plox no ' in loglines so people don't have to escape the shit out of parsing.	[12:33]
assbot	polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxGpTs )	[12:33]
*	ascii_butugychag (~stanislav@162.17.208.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[12:33]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[12:33]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[12:33]
thestringpuller	how's the labor camp?	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	phf http://www.intodns.com/btcbase.org and btw, did i say how much i like the blue and red and shit ?	[12:34]
assbot	intoDNS: btcbase.org - check DNS server and mail server health ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxGMNP )	[12:34]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: mmm for me the ranges in that site don't work, which line is it?	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	oh.	[12:35]
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mircea_popescu	+ printf(SERR SBLK "can't create database file %s ", strFileRes.c_str());	[12:35]
Tasoshi	So Satoshi's great test to determine whether bitcoin can operate through decentralised consensus is now on. mircea_popescu, I have been looking at some old posts and it seemed that in 2013 you agreed with Satoshi and his vision. What exactly did you learn in 2013 to turn yourself against Satoshi's vision itself?	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	can you be specific ?	[12:35]
Tasoshi	I am sure you know your own history better than I	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	fine, if you must. "meanwhile i read the code".	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	what fucking vision.	[12:36]
punkman	mircea_popescu: re:sha3-digest, here's one idea, asic miners can get around recalculating the digest on every hash by changing the merkle-root/timestamp instead of the nonce	[12:36]
Tasoshi	to scale on chain so as to give the security and privacy of onchain transactions to all	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	punkman quite, yes. this is deliberate.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	won't be too easy tho, asic needs EVEN MORE ram that way.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	(miners currently use this incidentally, to some degree)	[12:37]
BingoBoingo	Tasoshi: Seriously give the Bitcoin code a read. Version 0.3.21, 0.5.4, 0.7.2, and 0.8 are all essential reading	[12:37]
punkman	why even more ram?	[12:37]
thestringpuller	0.8 is so crufty	[12:37]
Tasoshi	I am enquiring what exactly changed your opinion in 2013?	[12:37]
Tasoshi	is one propaganta video sufficient to turn you all against the genius of satoshi?	[12:37]
BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: Which is why It's on the reading list	[12:37]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392455 << still monstrous	[12:37]
BingoBoingo	Oh MP watched a video without penises?	[12:37]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 13:23:16; polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: here is the logging patch split up in three: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/ccf92c5f83753a03370a, https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/38b7835cb5f7863d4547 and https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/621f39b7cf21d736400e	[12:37]
thestringpuller	yup. look at what the power rangers have done!	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag yes but now necessarily monstruous	[12:38]
thestringpuller	!gettrust Tasoshi	[12:38]
assbot	Tasoshi is not registered in WoT.	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard incidentally, did you leave any nude returns ?	[12:38]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392467 << holy shit, incitatus has been running with a full disk and 0 maintenance for months	[12:38]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 13:48:58; PeterL: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/81b25113-e9e7-485d-995a-b13e790305ae/?raw=true << so I just restarted bitcoind, using -connect to all the trb nodes in the wiki, it looks like only Inciatus is letting me connect, the rest are refusing my connection?	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	full disk is best disk!	[12:38]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i disagree that the mega-turd that touches 10,000 lines is justified.	[12:39]
Tasoshi	I mean, it is true isn't it mircea_popescu that you agreed with onchain scaling in 2013? But anyway looks like you guys are busy so I'll leave you to it.	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	dude the fucking returns have to be fixed.	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	there's no way around this. what would you do ?	[12:39]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392477 << obvious-idea is obvious!1111	[12:39]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 13:58:29; jurov: http://www.projectnatick.com/ m$ heard alf and going underwater	[12:39]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: what returns	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	- return error("BANNED peer issuing unknown inv type.");	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	for instance.	[12:40]
ascii_butugychag	what is wrong with these ?	[12:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75572 @ 0.00056712 = 42.8584 BTC [+]	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't say WHO was banned	[12:41]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392496 << the sane upgrade path is TO THERMONUKE GNUDIFF and have turing-complete operation set!	[12:41]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 14:26:12; jurov: mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform : do I understand right sha512 is hardwired in V? is there a space for sane upgrade path?	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	and flags would be nice	[12:41]
Tasoshi	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140233.msg1503470#msg1503470	[12:41]
assbot	The MAX_BLOCK_SIZE fork ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxIuyL )	[12:41]
Tasoshi	what polluted your mind?	[12:41]
PeterL	ascii_butugychag I think I was wrong, it is not inciatus to which I connected, looks like Dulap?	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	Tasoshi looky, im sure you have nice intentions et all, but intentions don't matter. put some actual sweat into it. answer the original question, answer it well rather than flailing around.	[12:42]
Tasoshi	what question	[12:42]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: that'd make more sense, dulap is my flagship	[12:42]
Tasoshi	Why do you not tell me and all what corrupted your mind to make you turn against the genius of satoshi?	[12:43]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392518 << the 'poverty limit' is a crock of shit, many of the supposedly-'poor' live rent-free	[12:43]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 14:34:29; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392335 << poverty limit. ask the world bank :D	[12:43]
BingoBoingo	Tasoshi: Didn't you see there's a way to get MP to buy into a hard fork? http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/	[12:44]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q70TOa )	[12:44]
Tasoshi	You've been deceived by all sorts of scaremongering about abstract concept such as centralised decentralised whatever	[12:45]
Tasoshi	if you do not think 51% will be honest, then sell your bitcoins.....	[12:46]
PeterL	tasoshi, who are you?	[12:46]
thestringpuller	Tasoshi: you are flailing about in a seizure like manner.	[12:46]
Tasoshi	if you do, then why should you restrict access to all?	[12:46]
Tasoshi	and turn this into a super centralised kyc aml settlement nonsense	[12:46]
Tasoshi	and all it took is 1 video?	[12:46]
BingoBoingo	Tasoshi: What video	[12:47]
thestringpuller	there will always be mr. spams	[12:47]
Tasoshi	The propaganda video which is probably the only thing that convinced mr mircea_popescu	[12:48]
PeterL	mircea_popescu watched a video?	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	lmao what!	[12:48]
BingoBoingo	Tasoshi: You gotta specify the video	[12:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056712 = 12.4766 BTC [+]	[12:49]
BingoBoingo	Tasoshi: Is this the video? http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph558c08d45a454	[12:49]
assbot	mommy handjob is step son - Pornhub.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxKmri )	[12:49]
Tasoshi	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZp7UGgBR0I&feature=youtu.be	[12:49]
assbot	Why the blocksize limit keeps Bitcoin free and decentralized - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxKqHk )	[12:49]
Tasoshi	it is amazing how professional that video is for 2013	[12:49]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[12:49]
Tasoshi	as you all remember, all videos about bitcoin were super amateur back then	[12:50]
Tasoshi	except for this one.....	[12:50]
Tasoshi	and you all fell for it	[12:50]
jurov	Tasoshi nonsense. I personally was convinced by stuff like this: https://bitbet.us/bet/302/bitcoin-standardized-protocol-approved-this-summer/	[12:50]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin Standardized Protocol Approved this Summer :: 2.7 B (24%) on Yes, 8.72 B (76%) on No \| closed 2 years 5 months ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1SxKBCL )	[12:50]
BingoBoingo	Tasoshi: My browser doesn't play yourtube videos	[12:50]
jurov	i.e. devteam just rushing to enhance and extend without putting things on stable footing	[12:51]
jurov	and you know what comes after embrace and extend	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard mno, this is no good, it doesn;t solve the naked return problem. for instance (all from bitcoinrpc.cpp) : return error; at line 44 ; return "bitcoin server stopping"; line 162 sorta thing.	[12:53]
Tasoshi	what I find surprising is that the propaganda video has any persuasive power when it visually shows its settlement system as being very centralised - that is many people connecting to 1 hub/bank...	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	not to mention assorted garbage like throw runtime_error()	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	and my god, the return ret; stuff already	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	!down Tasoshi	[12:54]
*	assbot removes voice from Tasoshi	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	they ran out of reddit or something ?	[12:54]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: what's your objection to throw runtime_error ?	[12:55]
BingoBoingo	Prolly ran out of reddit	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag i didn't object to it in principle, but it's also not covered by the new logging model.	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	i do object to return ret; in principle.	[12:56]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: I didn't know it was expected to solve it, but ok, I see this patch is consuming too much time from everybody...	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: what new logging model	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard i dunno that it was expected to either. prolly isn't, really. just, bitcoin code is too layered, random and messy.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag lemme summarize this for you. bitcoin eminently keeps shitty logs. a new guy came in and undertood the monstrous task of trying to fix that.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	this has on one side exposed a lot of the underlying grime, and on the other side is bugging your centralist mind because you don't want to read thousands of lines of patchwork.	[12:58]
polarbeard	to be honest, I see this thing going forward if I don't have to generate a new patch again	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless : the grime's still there, and bitcoin would do a lot better with a better logging system	[12:58]
ascii_butugychag	the ~original~ grime is only cleanable at tremendous cost.	[12:58]
polarbeard	so if I can add another patch on top of these I will keep working on it but I'm tired of rediffing...	[12:58]
ascii_butugychag	and really oughta be lisped.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard aha.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag yeah well.	[12:59]
ascii_butugychag	shiva hooks on everything, and programmable log mechanism in ~that~.	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	understand : you can't prevent people from working nor should you try.	[12:59]
ascii_butugychag	i in particular can't prevent anybody from doing anything.	[12:59]
ascii_butugychag	but will pronounce - 'this is braindamaged and i will not sign.'	[12:59]
ascii_butugychag	fwiw.	[12:59]
ascii_butugychag	ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu - can, obviously, do what they like.	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	well the v is well designed to be forgiving and helpful.	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	anyway, yes, i'm taking the time from my days of orgies and icecream to read this thing.	[13:00]
ascii_butugychag	briefly, unrelatedly, mircea_popescu 'the keccak function takes unlimited input' << what ?!	[13:01]
phf	can imagine future where ascii big trb senator is forced by opposition forces to sign, "i will not siiiign"	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	hehehe. thanks god we are better than that stupid shit.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	"FOR SIIIIGNLET!!!!"	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	l0l!z	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag it's my recollection you can apply it on an endless pile of data, neh ?	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	also keccak has same problem as predecessor, silicon will be baked, we get mining cartels again.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	you gotta read carefully.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	CAREFULLY.	[13:02]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: you can apply ~any~ hash to endless pile	[13:02]
*	ascii_butugychag goes, reads, again	[13:02]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[13:04]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[13:05]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[13:05]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i still don't grasp the 'technological reasons' from footnote v	[13:06]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag is asic going to store the whole chain ?	[13:07]
ascii_butugychag	it can be in a drive.	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	can that drive seek 300k specific bytes on demand ?	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	if you have a drive that seeks and also updates, why not have a cpu ?	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	the only reason asics exist is because sha256 you can do by hand on paper.	[13:08]
ascii_butugychag	i also vaguely recall ^this aspect being appealing to mircea_popescu ?	[13:08]
ascii_butugychag	(slavecoin!)	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	yes there's some economy of scale to be had with well designed flash banks, made each the size of a block etc.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	but that also means block size gets BAKED IN SILICONE	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	so whatever new value we agree upon, it's fixed.	[13:09]
ascii_butugychag	might bring exotical like holo storage out of the circus and into actual production	[13:09]
ascii_butugychag	*exotica	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	obviously there's no insurance against future technology.	[13:09]
punkman	why not 1tb of ram?	[13:09]
ascii_butugychag	and how is block size any more fixed in the proposed scheme than in the old ?	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	but on the basis of what we currently known, a strict coupling there (4 or less bits of shift) is untractable	[13:09]
ascii_butugychag	in either case, if changed - fork	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag different incentives. as it is now, changing the size doesn't automatically brick all miners.	[13:10]
ascii_butugychag	and i can easily go buy 1tb of ram whenever, as can anybody	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	this is an oversight. they want a change, fine, but they must fully commit to it.	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	1tb of ram will be overwhelmed by 20mb blocks in a few years.	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	moreover, you still need all the accesses.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	the ~only way to do this in silicone is to make blocksized banks and line them up.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	this will be done eventually, as the article says. but not without its costs.	[13:11]
punkman	mutating the merkle root just needs some sha256 hashing though	[13:13]
*	samO_ (~samO@unaffiliated/samo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	but is also finite.	[13:13]
punkman	is not	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	how do you mean ?	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	20mb blocks?!	[13:14]
punkman	you just put the nonce in coinbase, isn't it equivalent to mutating the actual nonce?	[13:14]
ascii_butugychag	and what is so great about miners == nodes ?	[13:15]
jurov	deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201601.txt.asc	[13:15]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SxQAXW )	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	recipe for remaking swift ?	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	punkman yes, up until people start rejecting nonstandard blocks.	[13:15]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	where there are a dozen nodes, forever.	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag what do you mean ?	[13:15]
punkman	you can encode that nonce in standard coinbase outputs	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: centralization	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	punkman yes, but costs money and takes time.	[13:15]
*	samO__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag can you be explicit for crying out loud.	[13:16]
ascii_butugychag	right now we have gangrene in one leg. what is an improvement about having ~two~ ?	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	what's a word gonna do.	[13:16]
punkman	mircea_popescu: orders of magnitude cheaper than recalculating nonce+digest	[13:16]
ascii_butugychag	requiring elaborate hardware to mine adds to, rather than takes away from, centralization.	[13:16]
jurov	trinque: deedbot.org says "Last updated 2016-01-27"	[13:16]
ascii_butugychag	and the ssd cartel is cackling as we speak, reading this	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag this is a general principle that works generally.	[13:17]
ascii_butugychag	suddenly ssd is plutonium.	[13:17]
ascii_butugychag	fuck that	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	ssd is A LOT easier to make than fucking asics.	[13:17]
ascii_butugychag	mno.	[13:17]
ascii_butugychag	this is demonstrably untrue.	[13:17]
ascii_butugychag	'btc asic' is really 1980s-level vlsi.	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	punkman not really. for one thing, now it's finite.	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	that's no demonstration of anything.	[13:18]
ascii_butugychag	and south kr, usg muppet, owns ~100% of ssd fabrication.	[13:18]
ascii_butugychag	thinkaboutit	[13:18]
ascii_butugychag	they have a stranglehold	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	this is like saying russia makes all mop buckets and so they have a stranglehold.	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	and ukrainian whores have a stranglehold on german streetwalking.	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	yeah, i'm sure they do. why ?	[13:19]
ascii_butugychag	realize that cn would profit tremendously from making own ssd	[13:20]
ascii_butugychag	and still has not.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	because it's the easiest thing to do and they're entry level.	[13:20]
ascii_butugychag	because it is not a fucking mop bucket	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[13:20]
ascii_butugychag	it is something that ONE country has any kind of reasonable tooling to make.	[13:20]
*	contrapumpkin is now known as copumpkin	[13:20]
trinque	jurov: btcd is choking on the transaction representing felipelalli's deed; I've been looking at it	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	anyway. this adds the "need chinese foundries" to "need sk sdd" for maximal ,ulz.	[13:20]
trinque	perhaps it is a matter of the key generated being invalid, though I would've expected the bits I'm using for pubkey/address generation to barf at that, and didn't	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	trinque maybe it's high s :D	[13:21]
trinque	meanwhile the trb node is now at 383k, thanks to new SSD	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: why not, while you're at it, premine 100% of the coins and just hand them to seoul.	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	same effect.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag anyway, the only thign this does is that if implemented, you could alter dulap code slightly and produce usable digest blocks for sale to pay for the node.	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	for sale to whom ?	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	miners.	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	who wants this, for what ?	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	miners need to know that nonces x to x' are ok to mine with digest Z	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	and you have a cpu and a hdd, and can just produce this information.	[13:22]
ascii_butugychag	i think i have a stronger chance of flying to mircea_popescu's house on a glider powered by my own farts, than for this to so much as budge the schelling point from bitcoin by so much as a nanometre.	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	and it'll be way the fuck cheaper for them to buy it from you than for them to bake a cpu and hdd into the 80s era vlsi.	[13:22]
ascii_butugychag	why would anyone value this, for anything ?	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	for the obvious reason.	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	it heals the node-miner breach.	[13:23]
ascii_butugychag	i get that miners without nodes are retarded, but that is easily fixed just by requiring whole-block hash in the nonce rather than the idiot header system	[13:24]
ascii_butugychag	and nukes pools, at the same time	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	(they way this is likely going to be asic'd is by keeping rainbow tables, and just adding octets. nevertheless - this STILL requires the whole chain be preserved. even if in a diff format)	[13:24]
ascii_butugychag	what i don't get is what desirable thing the workfunction change accomplishes	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	how is this a workfunction change ?	[13:24]
ascii_butugychag	attempt at 'i/o-hard' workfunction	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	i mean. how is this more or different of a workfunction change.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	nah, it's just making sure people actually have the chain. all of it.	[13:25]
ascii_butugychag	that much i can see, is a desirable thing	[13:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38023 @ 0.00056506 = 21.4853 BTC [-] {2}	[13:25]
punkman	would you have to recalculate the digest to verify any incoming blocks as a node?	[13:26]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Ether Huffing Reddit Spam Persists - http://qntra.net/2016/02/ether-huffing-reddit-spam-persists/	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	punkman probably. unless you keep a table of historical chain by nonces.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	with an unshifted nonce, this is ~impossible, of course, you're not keeping maxint times 200kb+ entries.	[13:28]
BingoBoingo	punkman: Why haven't you submitted a writeup on the Liberty Reserve thing yet?	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag anyway, if the nice folks of whatever wish to change bitcoin more in the sense of, full block hash not headers, i wouldn't automatically reject it. i described a point which must be included, but i also said its details are open to discussion.	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	as long as that delivers this, i see no problem.	[13:29]
punkman	BingoBoingo: dunno, wasn't that interesting in retrospect	[13:29]
ascii_butugychag	i'm not convinced that it is possible for mircea_popescu and the secret cabal of the smallint other mircea_popescus to actually get off the bitcoin bus without perma-crashing the universe	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	hey, i'm not the one proposing change.	[13:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77400 @ 0.00056428 = 43.6753 BTC [-] {3}	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	the observation that "you can't have any change until you clean up your room" shouldn't really be all that controversial.	[13:31]
punkman	mircea_popescu: what is a shifted nonce?	[13:31]
mircea_popescu	adolescentine fits re "but bucket of water could cause flood and rubbing things together starts fires so i shouldn't have to sweep" notwithstanding.	[13:31]
ascii_butugychag	and 'cleaned room' really means 0 cpp.	[13:31]
ascii_butugychag	this, i also have trouble seeing how it could be controversial.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	punkman http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#selection-277.38-277.91	[13:32]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1m8jMbl )	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	does the selection work for you ?	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag i don't. nobody has learned anything else since 30 years ago.	[13:32]
adlai	punkman: right-shifting the nonce bits by N to make the hashed data update every 2^N blocks	[13:32]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: you know full well that this is false.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	yes, but you also know what i mean.	[13:32]
ascii_butugychag	cpp is braindamaged and is the reason why winblows is what it is.	[13:32]
ascii_butugychag	c is braindamaged and is the reason unix is braindamaged.	[13:33]
ascii_butugychag	see 1,001 old threadz...	[13:33]
adlai	ascii_butugychag: what did you mean by "requiring whole-block hash in the nonce"?	[13:33]
ascii_butugychag	at the root of both, is the fact that anything produced by 'coderz' is braindamaged.	[13:33]
ascii_butugychag	adlai: it means no pools. ever.	[13:33]
ascii_butugychag	anyone who mines has a full change of catching a block.	[13:33]
ascii_butugychag	*chance	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	of	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	man you're being very unhelpful here.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	wouldja simmer down and speak explicitly ? these are the logs!	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	they last forever!	[13:34]
adlai	i didn't ask what the implications are, or why, i'm asking what exactly your proposal is, implementation-wise	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	adlai: are you familiar with how mining presently works ?	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	and why pools are possible ?	[13:34]
*	adlai has not build his own ASICs	[13:34]
adlai	yes.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	still nhot explicit.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	"do you know that currently, all a miner needs is to know the header of the previous block to mine" "yes"	[13:35]
punkman	not the previous block	[13:35]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	the wunderbar advantages of being explicit! others have something to talk to!	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[13:36]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[13:36]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[13:36]
ascii_butugychag	ok i see what mircea_popescu meant	[13:37]
adlai	i just want to understand what ascii_butugychag suggested there, instead of each block header including the previous header's hash. i probably got thrown off by the word "nonce" leaking in there	[13:37]
ascii_butugychag	!s non-outsourceable	[13:37]
assbot	6 results for 'non-outsourceable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=non-outsourceable	[13:37]
ascii_butugychag	^ there is more than one way of accomplishing this effect	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	see, i suspect ascii_butugychag this is the major contradiction here. your idea of safety is to make it non-outsourceable, but i suspect it'd be both better and safer to make it FAIRLY outsourceable.	[13:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85750 @ 0.00056712 = 48.6305 BTC [+]	[13:38]
ascii_butugychag	why?	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	currently the problem appears to be "it being outsourceable", but really, the problem is that only blind outsourcing can be done.	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	why. because that's how the whole world was built. and how it works when it works.	[13:38]
ascii_butugychag	pools full of sheeple who can be steered, turned on a dime, are a Bad Thing	[13:38]
punkman	ascii_butugychag: did you figure out how to "non-outsourceable"?	[13:38]
BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo: dunno, wasn't that interesting in retrospect << As a general rule cases become far less interesting when pleas happen	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag yes but the solution is not to kill all the sheep.	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	make a fair environment for them. if they die, fine.	[13:39]
ascii_butugychag	why not ?	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	cuz cheaper plus you get to date the hottest sheeps.	[13:39]
ascii_butugychag	the more i think about it, the more it seems to me that mining is a catastrophic bug per se	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	yes. but to quote a great man,	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	so is the carnot cycle.	[13:40]
ascii_butugychag	introduces exactly the wrong incentives, and empowers the folks you least want in the driver's seat	[13:41]
ascii_butugychag	it remains to be shown that, like carnot cycle, mining cannot be escaped from.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	fortunate that miners aren't in the driver's seat	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	anyway. heaven is built atop hell also. been doing fine.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea who makes their gaskets tho.	[13:42]
ascii_butugychag	buna.	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00056138 = 11.2276 BTC [-] {2}	[13:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19161 @ 0.00056123 = 10.7537 BTC [-] {3}	[14:01]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[14:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49679 @ 0.00056064 = 27.852 BTC [-]	[14:02]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[14:06]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:07]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74000 @ 0.00056712 = 41.9669 BTC [+]	[14:10]
funkenstein_	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392909 <-- afaik the only ways are 1) require coinbase receiver's signature in block header 2) remove coinbase from PoW hashed header	[14:11]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 16:37:42; punkman: ascii_butugychag: did you figure out how to "non-outsourceable"?	[14:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35959 @ 0.00056712 = 20.3931 BTC [+] {2}	[14:17]
funkenstein_	number 2 being DOA of course :)	[14:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84191 @ 0.00056761 = 47.7877 BTC [+] {4}	[14:18]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[14:38]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:40]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52050 @ 0.00056258 = 29.2823 BTC [-]	[14:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81826 @ 0.00056718 = 46.4101 BTC [+] {2}	[14:55]
ben_vulpes	nifty altcoin	[14:58]
ben_vulpes	latest and greatest in anti-drone technology: https://twitter.com/CostaSamaras/status/694204062695342080	[14:59]
ascii_butugychag	the measures against toy choppers is 100% 'majesty of the might of the state' crapolade theatre	[15:10]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[15:10]
shinohai	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:10]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	funkenstein_ <-- afaik the only ways are 1) require coinbase receiver's signature in block header << this is rank nonsense. i'm not signing to receive bitcoin.	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	yes usg loves to present "fixes" of this nature. the odds of them making it in are about the same as the odds of obama being smart.	[15:13]
ascii_butugychag	wouldn't it be a sign from a fresh address at any rate ?	[15:15]
ascii_butugychag	how would this help hitler ?	[15:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85164 @ 0.00056197 = 47.8596 BTC [-] {4}	[15:19]
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shinohai	https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/ce2a03a459cc8bac45c8c8c09ab97ef441bdc089 <<< this will end well	[15:25]
assbot	Switch to Fortuna-based PRNG · sipa/bitcoin@ce2a03a · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1So1ly2 )	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	o brother.	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	so blockstream really is running out of cash huh.	[15:25]
ascii_butugychag	and holy shit are their patches massive	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	+/** Add entropy to the pool directly. Use this for seeding or on-demand entropy. */	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	my fave part.	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag you've lived a sheltered lyf alfie :D	[15:26]
*	assbot gives voice to mats	[15:27]
ascii_butugychag	wut	[15:28]
jurov	btw kto si chce zarobit bitcenty hranim: http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/01/28/foxys-musings-on-click-slaves-vs-apprentices-and-their-choices/	[15:28]
assbot	Foxy’s Musings on Click-Slaves vs Apprentices and Their Choices in Ossasepia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PMI2aK )	[15:28]
jurov	eulora je trochu ako randomizovany eve online :D	[15:28]
ascii_butugychag	in other nyooz, turns out that golden-age opterons (just the chip) can be had for their weight in mere gold on 'ebay'	[15:29]
ascii_butugychag	by the crate.	[15:29]
ascii_butugychag	(anyone other than me cares?)	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	"all 1 comments - sorted by: best there doesn't seem to be anything here" << lol reddit.	[15:29]
jurov	ups wrong chan :D	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	jurov i could read that!	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag ~100 or so no ?	[15:30]
ascii_butugychag	aha same	[15:30]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: and below	[15:30]
ascii_butugychag	depending on grade	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	yea	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	kinda what they always cost, in nominal terms	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	course inflation...	[15:31]
kakobrekla	which are the golde age ones according to alf?	[15:32]
ascii_butugychag	kakobrekla: pre-usgtronic-alwayson slave core	[15:34]
*	assbot gives voice to guruvan	[15:34]
ascii_butugychag	through late 2011 or so.	[15:34]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: they sold for $2-3K usd new	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	aha	[15:36]
ascii_butugychag	so what means '100 is what they always cost' ?	[15:37]
ascii_butugychag	to produce ?	[15:37]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[15:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67940 @ 0.00056628 = 38.4731 BTC [+]	[15:59]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[16:01]
mod6	hey ascii_butugychag, so i figured out what my dumbass did yesterday. somehow, when looking at your fix patch - I missed the portion where you changed main.cpp altogether.	[16:02]
mod6	probably was just going to fast.	[16:02]
mod6	anyway, i created a new patch for PVS and did a regrind on malleus (since this one depends on main.cpp)	[16:03]
mod6	compiled just fine, just kicked it off for a quick test...	[16:04]
mod6	# ps aux \| grep bitcoind && LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getinfo \| grep version	[16:06]
mod6	root 31936 32.1 37.8 1741912 1453164 pts/7 SLl 19:01 0:55 ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=188.68.240.159 -setverstring=trb -setvernum=99998 -lows	[16:06]
mod6	root 31948 0.0 0.0 8924 708 pts/7 S+ 19:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto bitcoind	[16:06]
mod6	"version" : 99998,	[16:06]
mod6	so that looks like its doing the right thing, and the log was updated as well.	[16:07]
phf	ok, so http://btcbase.org/patches/	[16:07]
assbot	trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1Km0rix )	[16:07]
phf	mircea_popescu: ^	[16:07]
phf	which kind of broke the previous ip only links, i might fix that at some point	[16:08]
polarbeard	neato	[16:08]
phf	there's a bug of some sort, pretty sure your polarbeard_better_log_messages shouldn't press from asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected, i'll look into it tonight	[16:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66600 @ 0.00056126 = 37.3799 BTC [-] {2}	[16:09]
mod6	ascii_butugychag: take a look at these and let me know what you think, plz: http://dpaste.com/0P9PR2S.txt && http://dpaste.com/2SV1RKB.txt	[16:10]
polarbeard	I think it's correct though, 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e bitcoin/src/db.cpp	[16:10]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Km0M4F )	[16:10]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Km0NFT )	[16:10]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[16:11]
mod6	i must be stale ascii_butugychag	[16:13]
mod6	someone up ascii_butugychag	[16:13]
mod6	plzkthx	[16:13]
trinque	!up ascii_butugychag	[16:14]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[16:14]
mod6	thanks trinque	[16:14]
trinque	yw	[16:14]
phf	polarbeard: it's not correct, since the graph is supposed to only show transitions, rather then descendants/antecedents. in this case polarbeard_better_log_messages touches util.h and util.cpp that are modified in polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file	[16:14]
ascii_butugychag	ty trinque. mod6: it looks fine	[16:14]
ascii_butugychag	i still think regrinds are a thing to be avoided whenever possible, but whatever	[16:14]
phf	in other words there might be an antecedent, but there's also other hunks in that file that should've prevented the linkage	[16:15]
ascii_butugychag	phf: your viewer is mighty spiffy, it is exactly what i wanted to make in september (and never had time)	[16:15]
ascii_butugychag	if it were given a place to pump in patches, we could finally give turdatron a proper burial	[16:15]
mod6	ascii_butugychag: one fix every now and then isn't horrible or anything, id just hate to see the situation (like at usg-like job) where people create a turd, create a PR, and then have to keep chainging the PR until "ready"	[16:16]
mod6	and a similar situation in V would be like 69 patches to patch the original patch.	[16:16]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: i found myself blowing the very tiny time budget i had, on regrinding	[16:18]
ascii_butugychag	and imho it is quite unnecessary	[16:18]
ascii_butugychag	and now, e.g., shiva is hosed, imho needlessly, and will have to be reground	[16:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82200 @ 0.00056125 = 46.1348 BTC [-] {2}	[16:18]
ascii_butugychag	instead of my being able to add something useful to it	[16:18]
polarbeard	phf: I don't follow, db.cpp is what generates that relationship	[16:18]
ascii_butugychag	it is my considered judgement that maintaining the illusion of 'we got it right the first time' is a pointless thing.	[16:19]
phf	ascii_butugychag: thanks!	[16:24]
phf	polarbeard: you can't press polarbeard_better_log_messages directly on top of asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected period. so the ~transition~ makes no sense	[16:24]
phf	there needs to be some patches in between	[16:25]
polarbeard	you can press the corresponding hunks, the graph is showing that	[16:26]
ascii_butugychag	;;later tell mircea_popescu in what sense is adoptinc keccak a rejection of usg standards? it was actually adopted as sha3...	[16:30]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:30]
ascii_butugychag	*adopting	[16:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87439 @ 0.00056085 = 49.0402 BTC [-] {2}	[16:32]
ascii_butugychag	oh, hm, adopted but mutilated ?	[16:33]
ascii_butugychag	http://www.lshift.net/blog/2013/10/01/why-i-support-the-us-government-making-a-cryptography-standard-weaker << vintage lulz	[16:34]
assbot	LShift - Why I support the US Government making a cryptography standard weaker ... ( http://bit.ly/1Km3M0U )	[16:35]
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ascii_butugychag	ServerMode/#bitcoin-assets [+v ben_vulpes] by adams.freenode.net << wat?!	[16:42]
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trinque	!up ascii_butugychag	[16:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[16:44]
trinque	jurov: I got it to squirt your txn earlier, after finding where my db lost track of the blockchain. site will update when btcd catches up, in roughly 90blks	[16:45]
trinque	still seeing something that knocks btcd into a stuck state	[16:46]
trinque	trb node is at 384k; I will be switching to that with anti-heathen command patch very soon	[16:46]
trinque	the same node was at 350k before I had the SSD installed, so we're gaining ground quickly.	[16:47]
ascii_butugychag	;;later tell mircea_popescu your scheme (could call it... nodecoin?) finally clicked in my head. at last, an end to the cn pond scum !!	[16:50]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21306 @ 0.00056683 = 12.0769 BTC [+] {3}	[16:53]
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thestringpuller	trinque: SSD speeds up block checking? I found I/O is very heavy with -verifyall	[16:55]
trinque	the SSD has massively sped up the process, which doesn't surprise me	[16:56]
trinque	and yeah, running with -verifyall	[16:56]
thestringpuller	yea. System is at like 70% disk load when verifying blocks on sync.	[16:56]
thestringpuller	Nuking the checkpoints is necessary tho.	[16:57]
ascii_butugychag	imho spinning rust is a losing proposition for any node.	[16:57]
hdbuck	hello	[16:57]
thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag: Not all of us are rich like you and can afford toys :P	[16:57]
ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: l0l	[16:57]
ascii_butugychag	what, can't afford to pay 2009 price per TB ?	[16:58]
thestringpuller	When I get promoted to plutonimum mine from coal mine, maybe I'll buy SSDs.	[16:58]
ascii_butugychag	did you not own a disk in '09 ?	[16:58]
trinque	pff I'm paying 25/mo for a colo'd server with SSD	[16:58]
trinque	old amd box	[16:58]
thestringpuller	I upgrade computers slowly unless for vidya gamez.	[16:58]
ascii_butugychag	hey i'm running a machine circa '07	[16:58]
ascii_butugychag	about to upgrade cpus for the 1st time, with.... circa-'09 ones	[16:58]
thestringpuller	My most powerful box runs i5 a 1.5 TB array. Best thing in the box is a 960 GTX	[16:59]
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thestringpuller	I've upgraded the GPU twice.	[16:59]
thestringpuller	Stuck an extra stick of RAM in it based on notion from friend during last upgrade. more of "here is extra stick I have lying around" "oh cool"	[17:00]
hdbuck	qntrable? >> Kaspersky / Interpol fun: http://www.coinfox.info/news/persons/1733-kaspersky-lab-researcher-creates-virus-that-can-spread-through-the-blockchain	[17:00]
assbot	Kaspersky Lab researcher creates virus that can spread through the blockchain \| Coinfox ... ( http://bit.ly/1Km6tQd )	[17:00]
thestringpuller	So no, I don't buy storage often. I usually try to buy enough for 5 years at a time.	[17:00]
ascii_butugychag	hdbuck: idiocy, beneath contempt	[17:02]
hdbuck	alright	[17:02]
ascii_butugychag	srsly think about it for 5 minutes.	[17:02]
hdbuck	just was quite amused by the latest Kaspersky Interpol Forbes combo virus	[17:03]
ascii_butugychag	so i put the string 'rm -rf /' in the blockchain, snore	[17:03]
ascii_butugychag	if your box pipes it to bash and executes, that is a problem with you, not 'blockchain'	[17:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112328 @ 0.00056738 = 63.7327 BTC [+] {4}	[17:04]
ascii_butugychag	and if kaspersky really did sign off on this cheap p.t.barnumism, it really must be spent, for good.	[17:05]
thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag: Got into argument with netsec team leader at work.	[17:05]
thestringpuller	told him of cardano, and was like "well how are you going to trust cardano", to which I replied with the parable of soldier maintaining own AK-47	[17:06]
thestringpuller	and for some reason didn't understand...	[17:06]
ascii_butugychag	next time try & have the argument with a literate man, who can grasp how, e.g., flashlight works	[17:07]
ascii_butugychag	having it with somebody who understands nothing of how his civilization is put together, to whom flashlight, pc, boeing, are equally magical - is a snore.	[17:07]
thestringpuller	yes, but these people get put in charge of sekuriteee and it makes me wonder "how?"	[17:08]
thestringpuller	"Do you not understand how a web of trust functions, or why?"	[17:08]
thestringpuller	Isn't this fundamental to achieving some sort of ~actual~ security?	[17:09]
ascii_butugychag	the trick here is that the proposition that you could actually understand a device that you own, is a hard sell to a great many folks	[17:09]
thestringpuller	those folks usually would accidentally drink rat poison if it was "accidentally" labeled wine	[17:10]
thestringpuller	since they don't like to read.	[17:10]
ascii_butugychag	and folks who cannot, or will not, attempt said understanding, will have to find themselves a priest, yes.	[17:10]
thestringpuller	trust the priest until he diddles your son during sunday school?	[17:11]
ascii_butugychag	aha.	[17:11]
shinohai	^	[17:11]
ascii_butugychag	let's put it this way, they have priests already, and the latter are spinning the flock on their cocks like propellers.	[17:11]
ascii_butugychag	and ~nobody seems to mind.	[17:12]
thestringpuller	reminds of allegory of the cave. if all you know is being priest cock, why would you think something else exist.	[17:13]
thestringpuller	being on*	[17:13]
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shinohai	!up ascii_butugychag	[17:14]
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thestringpuller	!up ascii_butugychag	[17:14]
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thestringpuller	the rule of thumb "fits in head" helps with the notion of owning device which when understood could "fit in head".	[17:15]
thestringpuller	problem arises when people can barely fit 3 bits in head before wandering off.	[17:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41889 @ 0.00056892 = 23.8315 BTC [+] {2}	[17:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129400 @ 0.00056893 = 73.6195 BTC [+]	[17:21]
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BingoBoingo	Why Reddit values Obese fee-fees http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2016/obesity-diabetes-in-mom-increases-risk-of-autism-in-child.html	[17:30]
adlai	!v assbot:adlai.rate.psztorc.1:8fcb37e60bcff978a15dfbf1e566dc2508a68b74e12acec77bf899a37089e7cc	[17:31]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for psztorc with note: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2016-02-01/?msg=59154044&page=4	[17:31]
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BingoBoingo	!up trippysalmon	[17:43]
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deedbot-	[Qntra] Popescu Offers Condition For Accepting Future Hard Forks - http://qntra.net/2016/02/popescu-offers-condition-for-accepting-future-hard-forks/	[17:44]
BingoBoingo	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/43opc7/popescu_proposes_healing_the_minernode_division/	[17:44]
assbot	Popescu Proposes Healing the Miner/Node division : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1PN45OD )	[17:44]
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BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[17:52]
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ascii_butugychag	BingoBoingo: ' pledging to sink any hard fork proposal without making these changes' --> ... 'that does not include these changes' ?	[17:54]
BingoBoingo	ascii_butugychag: ty, fxd	[17:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00056893 = 32.2014 BTC [+]	[17:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131081 @ 0.00056878 = 74.5563 BTC [-]	[18:04]
BingoBoingo	!up schmidty	[18:09]
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schmidty	good to be here. still considering myself in purgatory given my lack of homework over the logs. i hope to some day join the ranks, still trying to frame it all up in my mind.	[18:11]
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mats	get a cloak.	[18:13]
schmidty	has anyone ever aggregated the viewpoints here into a sort of dogma or similar for the new followers?	[18:13]
PeterL	do we still have a ddosser on newbs/uncloaked?	[18:14]
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BingoBoingo	!up AaronvanW	[18:14]
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thestringpuller	///	[18:15]
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*	jurov upgrading shit to win10, near the end it shows big banner "All your files are exactly where you left them".	[18:17]
ascii_butugychag	wai wat	[18:17]
jurov	O.o	[18:17]
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mircea_popescu	ahahah	[18:18]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag note that it's not my scheme not a coin nor anything. it's just a minimum bar.	[18:18]
ascii_butugychag	jurov watcha doin' with winblowz?	[18:18]
jurov	compiling eulora client?	[18:18]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: ah!	[18:19]
PeterL	schmidty there is the wiki, wiki.bitcoin-assets.com	[18:19]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i can see it. sorta 'shit test', anyone who proposes any fork which refuses it, has to answer for himself	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	schmidty the idea is that you're supposed to press your own dogma so to speak.	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	same way v works for bitcoin code	[18:19]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag exactly. a very minimal sort of thing.	[18:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86100 @ 0.00056858 = 48.9547 BTC [-] {2}	[18:21]
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PeterL	!up schmidty	[18:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00056893 = 36.6391 BTC [+]	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116390 << incredibly enough everyone thinks this is a really original and interesting idea.	[18:23]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1WYbhgA )	[18:23]
PeterL	well, "everyone" being the people commenting on your blog	[18:24]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[18:24]
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ascii_butugychag	i must agree with the rando commenter, i have nfi why anybody would 'buy from nodes'	[18:25]
PeterL	people who want to do lightweight / trimmed blockchain would not like the proposal	[18:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056893 = 7.965 BTC [+]	[18:25]
PeterL	seems like it would be easier to run your own node for your minerfarm than to buy from other people?	[18:27]
ascii_butugychag	aha, seems like a 'let's rent out space inside my nose' situation	[18:28]
ascii_butugychag	(to borrow a mircea_popescuism)	[18:28]
PeterL	I guess instead of having one pool doing block hashing, you would have two pools connected, one doing the block hashing and one doing the bitmap hashing?	[18:29]
PeterL	pay-per-nonce?	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	PeterL there's a selection of different people there but ok.	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag then read my response :D	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	or just graph the demand curve for digests in units of time delta block finds in your head and see.	[18:32]
PeterL	so then people who have full nodes are the front half of the mining pool, and the back half remains about what it is now	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	PeterL nobody who wants a bitcoin-without-the-bitcoin thing would like that proposal. that's fundamentally why it's there, to readily distinguish people seeking to help from people seeking to help us hang ourselves.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the shifting decides that. if you make the shifting very low, mining as an activity seen today disappears altogether - the digest is much more expensive than the hashing.	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	so you'll just mine on server farms.	[18:34]
PeterL	is mining on server farms better than mining on asics?	[18:35]
ascii_butugychag	actually i must disagree with one point - general-purpose, e.g., x86, cpu, is full of so much crud that asicization is economical and quite inevitable	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	well... it is "closer to the origianl vision" at any rate.	[18:35]
ascii_butugychag	nobody needs that tlb cache	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag do you see the side benefit to this happening ?	[18:36]
ascii_butugychag	nobody needs the idiot 'acceleration' opcodes	[18:36]
ascii_butugychag	etc	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	"everything seems ripe for the picking to the man with a good pickaxe"	[18:36]
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ascii_butugychag	just pointing out that 80-90% of an x86 die is there because winblowz, really	[18:36]
ascii_butugychag	and helps not at all in actual computation.	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	if that were to happen because we made it happen i'd be so happy.	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	what, finally can buy a sane cpu because bitcoin miners ?	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	yay bitcoin miners!	[18:37]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	nah it won't be sane	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	it'll be like today's hash asic.	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	just with nand flash bus.	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	step in right direction anyway.	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	i don't see how	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	you don't see how it's a step or how it's the right direction ?	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	other than the basic fact of it being a caltrop against folks who want to 'lose' the blockchain, i mean	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	that part i get, and quite like	[18:38]
ascii_butugychag	but in re: silicon specifically	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	it will also be proof that in point of fact 80% of cpu could go away.	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	this is valuable.	[18:38]
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ascii_butugychag	wouldn't prove anything re: 'it could go away' in re: ~workstation~	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	on that expertise, and more importantly on those suddenly opened eyes, more good stuff can be built.	[18:38]
ascii_butugychag	any more than today's dsp proves it	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	i believe differently.	[18:38]
ascii_butugychag	what was build on the opened eyes of sha256 hash asic ?	[18:38]
ascii_butugychag	*built	[18:39]
mircea_popescu	this.	[18:39]
*	mircea_popescu gestures around him.	[18:39]
*	ascii_butugychag doesn't see it	[18:39]
mircea_popescu	well... vision, what can i tell ya!	[18:39]
ascii_butugychag	interestingly, i fully expected, from 2010 on, folks to gnaw on the leather straps of sha256	[18:40]
ascii_butugychag	!s satcoin	[18:40]
*	assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes	[18:40]
assbot	14 results for 'satcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=satcoin	[18:40]
ascii_butugychag	pretty much ~didn't happen.	[18:40]
*	assbot gives voice to felipelalli	[18:40]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392513 << heh. gotta love teh bitbet dramas. who knew a hockey bet would be such popular fodder for "debate" ? i guess the odd sports bet ain't so bad after all, though very few of them attract 10btc+ of action like this one.	[18:40]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 14:32:39; BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski https://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#c5602 I believe	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	i bought 2 kgs of costa rican cofee. place now smells like the end of the fucking world.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	i've never had coffee this good, and i lived in fucking costa rica!	[18:40]
felipelalli	how is a bitfield in the gpg key help you in case you die ? or lose control of the key ? neither of these are time-able events. << well, thank you.	[18:40]
felipelalli	deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0019PDB.txt	[18:41]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QQYRXa )	[18:41]
deedbot-	imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14	[18:41]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: britt ?	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[18:42]
pete_dushenski	http://www.cafebritt.com/	[18:42]
assbot	Cafe Britt Gourmet Coffee, Chocolates, Nuts and Cookies ... ( http://bit.ly/1WYdbO4 )	[18:42]
ascii_butugychag	i know of no reason to suspect that anybody on the planet is mining with any method other than brute force.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	ah no.	[18:42]
ascii_butugychag	which imho is surprising.	[18:42]
ben_vulpes	quality coffee in bsas?	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	it's a little place with no particular name down by the end of santa fe	[18:42]
ascii_butugychag	(but then again it is possible to hide the elephant)	[18:42]
ben_vulpes	goochness.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes if you ever end up in here again ima buy you a pound of this stuff :D	[18:42]
*	ascii_butugychag salivates	[18:42]
felipelalli	;;later tell felipelalli ^^^ also >> http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot#synopsis << Thank you danielpbarron - I was using in the wrong way. Now it works.	[18:42]
assbot	irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1RVey0C )	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	you too alfie	[18:43]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: and imma drink it! if i ever come back.	[18:43]
ben_vulpes	at this rate the only time i'm going to come back is with a 5 yo and a 2 yo to escape election season	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	actually now that macri murdered their black market, maybe the borders open and i can mail you some or some shit.	[18:43]
felipelalli	deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw/Bd3Qg7aW	[18:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QQXFTR )	[18:43]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[18:43]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: shall we try? anything you want from the states?	[18:43]
danielpbarron	felipelalli, ... I already did that for you!	[18:43]
ascii_butugychag	we got prime goatshit here	[18:44]
ascii_butugychag	what else we got	[18:44]
felipelalli	danielpbarron, thank you so much!	[18:44]
danielpbarron	(it doesn't matter who actually submits the deed, as long as it's blessed with WoT sig)	[18:44]
danielpbarron	now it's in there twice, but you're welcome	[18:44]
felipelalli	danielpbarron, nice!! :)	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes notrly, had lovage seeds courierred and that was the last thing.	[18:44]
felipelalli	danielpbarron, Daniel is a very common name in Brazil. Are you Brazilian?	[18:44]
*	assbot removes voice from AaronvanW	[18:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91550 @ 0.00056925 = 52.1148 BTC [+] {4}	[18:45]
danielpbarron	lol, it's from the Bible.. it's common everywhere. and no I'm born and raised in Connecticut	[18:45]
felipelalli	danielpbarron, it makes sense! :D	[18:45]
danielpbarron	not really, my parents are atheists	[18:45]
felipelalli	But Felipe, for example, in some places are Philip, Filipe, Filippo etc.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	Filip, even.	[18:46]
felipelalli	true! I saw Filipi already.	[18:46]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392518 << but you said "in the us" where dollars don't mean things and "citizens" are africans who "make" xxx`xxx but leave no more than x`xxx to their children. (eg. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-10-2015#1301882) so african africans pay $0.005/diaper and it's a wash.	[18:47]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 14:34:29; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392335 << poverty limit. ask the world bank :D	[18:47]
assbot	Logged on 18-10-2015 16:37:35; asciilifeform: let's have a programmer, of some skill, no social net, no savings, pays 100K rent to make 120K in some godforsaken saltmine, in usa	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski i cheat. what else is new.	[18:47]
pete_dushenski	l0l	[18:47]
pete_dushenski	your proposal to increase block size pretty much seals this theory ;)	[18:47]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Shaun Bridges Arrested For Attempting To Flee United States - http://qntra.net/2016/02/shaun-bridges-arrested-for-attempting-to-flee-united-states/	[18:48]
*	TheRealJohnGalt_ (uid29986@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjozyzbesiychzfx) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	did he go mexico ?	[18:50]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Dunno that much yet, even though he was arrested last week word is just emerging this week.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[18:50]
BingoBoingo	Probably for reasons related to "trained experts" in german rapes	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	didn't give all the keys he promised ?	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[18:51]
BingoBoingo	But spz. to prison on Friday, arrested Thursday so who knows what's actually happpening	[18:51]
BingoBoingo	If you want Pravda's narrative you can check "Wired"	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	its ok, im just going to read more of this guy's -printf +printf.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	more exciting reading than wired at any rate.	[18:53]
*	assbot removes voice from schmidty	[18:54]
BingoBoingo	Anyways much more news today than late last month. 4 newses and a report in the first 22 hours of February.	[18:55]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392991 << splendid!	[18:55]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 19:06:38; phf: mircea_popescu: ^	[18:55]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[18:56]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393011 << it is quite splendid.	[18:56]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 19:14:39; ascii_butugychag: phf: your viewer is mighty spiffy, it is exactly what i wanted to make in september (and never had time)	[18:56]
ben_vulpes	http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file << aha, there we go	[18:57]
assbot	polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file ... ( http://bit.ly/1KmhEIu )	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes can you believe the deploy times of tmsr incidentally ?	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	shit just springs out overnight!	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	i have never witnessed anything like this before. if i were not-here i'd be pretty fucking scared.	[18:57]
ascii_butugychag	http://www.scribd.com/doc/297519336/Shaun-Bridges-Rearrest << apparently	[18:57]
assbot	Shaun Bridges Rearrest ... ( http://bit.ly/1KmhJvK )	[18:57]
ben_vulpes	well polarbeard likes to pretend as though i don't exist until he finally does what i ask, and even then refuses to ping me on the topic.	[18:58]
ascii_butugychag	'During the execution that warrant, and based on facts that remain under seal before this Court, the government recovered the following items: two “pelican style” bags which contained: identity documents; a passport card in Bridges’ name; a notarized copy of Bridges’ passport; corporate records for at least 3 different offshore entities ranging from Nevis to Belize to Mauritius, i	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	did i miss some drama ?	[18:58]
ascii_butugychag	ncluding one that Bridges created on October 28, 2015 after he had pleaded guilty in this case; a Samsung cell phone; and a thumb drive. Also located in those bags were documents relating to his wife’s, Ariana Esposito’s, attempts to obtain citizenship in another country. Government agents also found a MacBook with the serial number scratched off, an ipad tucked between a bedroom mattr	[18:58]
ben_vulpes	but yeah phf's sprouting some lovely tooling	[18:58]
ascii_butugychag	ess, and bulletproof vests, at least one of which had Secret Service markings and thus is believed to have been stolen from the government. '	[18:58]
ascii_butugychag	l0ltr0nic.	[18:58]
BingoBoingo	Coke Machine	[18:59]
jurov	phf what's i written in?	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag sounds more and more like it's a petraeus job.	[18:59]
jurov	*it	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	llleeeesp	[18:59]
ben_vulpes	le leeeesp	[18:59]
ascii_butugychag	speaking of petraeus jobs, same rag, http://www.wired.com/2016/01/nsa-hacker-chief-explains-how-to-keep-him-out-of-your-system	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	might also be the first time lisp was used for an actual purpose in its entire history	[18:59]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1WYf11p )	[18:59]
*	mircea_popescu runs off in a serpentine fashion, head down	[19:00]
ascii_butugychag	tr0l0l0l	[19:00]
*	ben_vulpes throws pens, pencils, erasers at mircea_popescu's slithering ass	[19:00]
ben_vulpes	stoned to death by office supplies	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag he has the right method tho, you know ? what in beginner writer classes is called show, don't tell.	[19:01]
ascii_butugychag	aha	[19:02]
*	Guest36473 is now known as Chicago	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	in other news : mp decides new heels and dress would go very well with a shiny-red lacquered leather ball gag. proceeds to inquire with a dozen or so sex shops in the farming town. they ALL have the same exact item.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	leaving aside they're trying to pass off a 70 cent chinese bit of crap for 20 bux in a poor country que no es un pais pobre : why the fuck bother to have a dozen shops then ?!	[19:04]
*	BingoBoingo wonders with this nuggest alf will show of lisp once he can find the right bolts to keep Shiva attached	[19:04]
*	BingoBoingo spz's that Shiva is probably the right place to get a less retarded wallet to talk to Bitcoin node.	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	quite so.	[19:06]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: lemme guess, they're all on the same street too?	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	over about 30 blocks yes.	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	BingoBoingo: when i weld on a working field arithmetic	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	atm there is none.	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	(this is the biggest point of divergence with r5rs standard, it ~demands~ it)	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	once you do that ima want shoup implemented just to have it nearby	[19:07]
ascii_butugychag	sure	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	ima do some shoup encoding on avenida cramer just for the fucks of it.	[19:07]
BingoBoingo	I suspect this will magically emerge as a surpise on some pseudorandom weekend	[19:07]
ascii_butugychag	incidentally all of this exists in sad pieces in the cellars of my sad tower	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	that isn't even flying, let alone dirigible.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	alf built himself a house shaped like a boat and is now waiting!	[19:08]
BingoBoingo	Or a yurn in th pampas	[19:08]
ascii_butugychag	aha, it works mightily just to stand.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393026 << at least it wasn;t fucking developed by teh nsa.	[19:09]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 19:29:18; ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu in what sense is adoptinc keccak a rejection of usg standards? it was actually adopted as sha3...	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	as far as we know. whatevs. minor point.	[19:09]
ascii_butugychag	btw between that thread and now i went and read the keccak spec	[19:09]
ascii_butugychag	it is mighty spiffy.	[19:09]
ascii_butugychag	accordionizes to size.	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	:)	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	i don't need to explain what i meant by not finite then ?	[19:11]
ascii_butugychag	aha.	[19:11]
ascii_butugychag	other hashes also accept infinite bits but they eat where they shit.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	and mind that while in no means do i propose this is "Asic resistant", from a designer perspective you must appreciate i'm giving you a fun job to do.	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	at least therer's that.	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	always make sure everyone's having fun.	[19:12]
ascii_butugychag	quite! nobody will be plagiarizing old verilog from fpga docs to bake this one.	[19:13]
ascii_butugychag	very asian-resistant.	[19:13]
ascii_butugychag	which is a mega-plus.	[19:13]
ben_vulpes	whoa oakland terminal is filing for ch 11	[19:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82529 @ 0.00056816 = 46.8897 BTC [-]	[19:14]
*	Anduck has quit (Quit: leaving)	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	honestly the way i expect practical implementations to work (at least "originally") is, best effort sort of thing.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	"we get the right hash 95% of the time!"	[19:15]
*	Anduck (~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	and throw an error about half the rest of the time!	[19:15]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: actually it will be a massively-parallel sort of affair	[19:15]
ascii_butugychag	or did you already say this	[19:15]
ascii_butugychag	(rainbow table)	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	well yeah.	[19:15]
ascii_butugychag	incidentally, does this actually incentivize storing the blocks? or only the rainbow table!	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	doesn't matter, they're homomorphisms.	[19:16]
ascii_butugychag	not for the purpose of relay	[19:16]
ascii_butugychag	or am i missing something	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	that is true.	[19:17]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: WHy is this surprizing. Oakland sucks and Oakland terminal has been struggling.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	but you get what the tree grew, not what you want to eat!	[19:17]
ascii_butugychag	this here tree might be growin' old tyres	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	actually... take the rainbows, write them ACROSS the bitfield, got the blocks lol.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	this is the amusing chinese-ness of this all. basically we're reading the other direction.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	more than one person in china lolled when they saw it.	[19:18]
ascii_butugychag	almost cantor's diagonal flavour to it.	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[19:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172634 @ 0.00056755 = 97.9784 BTC [-] {4}	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393062 << ah come on this is rank nonsense. who executes blocks.	[19:23]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 19:59:21; hdbuck: qntrable? >> Kaspersky / Interpol fun: http://www.coinfox.info/news/persons/1733-kaspersky-lab-researcher-creates-virus-that-can-spread-through-the-blockchain	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	incidentally ascii_butugychag i had dc price 1tb ram. the guy... lifted an eyebrow.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	about thirteen grand, and q2 delivery.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	but yes, that'd be one spiffy node.	[19:25]
BingoBoingo	https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CaKO7QnUEAEWdQX.mp4	[19:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KmkfSU )	[19:25]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: actually i would be only slightly surprised if prb could be persuaded to jmp into a block.	[19:26]
felipelalli	danielpbarron, I can't find my deed in http://deedbot.org/ - do you know why?	[19:26]
BingoBoingo	from https://twitter.com/IHBio/status/694274558665175040https://twitter.com/IHBio/status/694274558665175040	[19:26]
ascii_butugychag	or even a tx.	[19:26]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UxGNEF )	[19:26]
trinque	felipelalli: yes, he got shot in the head again and is catching back up, is at 396128	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag seeing how there's memory leaks... not a bad bet.	[19:26]
trinque	felipelalli: I thought the cause was something to do with your deed earlier, deleted it, now jurov's has gone through, and yours is next	[19:26]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[19:26]
hdbuck	mircea_popescu yes, sry, ps: gmax actually adressed your recent blogpost : http://pastebin.com/nq3iFbW8	[19:27]
assbot	gmaxwell: The thing that proposal wants to do has been discussed by others many - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kmkn4I )	[19:27]
felipelalli	trinque, lol! I think I have killed deedbot- many times unintentionally.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	hdbuck apparently it's the talk of the town, yeah.	[19:28]
trinque	felipelalli: that is a good thing; this present round of woes shall be rememdied in a few days, I think. trb node shall have reached the top. It's at about 385k right now	[19:28]
felipelalli	trinque, nice!	[19:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102250 @ 0.00056955 = 58.2365 BTC [+] {2}	[19:36]
BingoBoingo	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/43qisj/paul_sztorc_on_twitter_it_seems_that_mircea/	[19:39]
assbot	Paul Sztorc on Twitter: "It seems that [Mircea Popescu] has internalized Bitcoin's full node externality. Initial reaction: "Wow."" : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kmlp0t )	[19:39]
pete_dushenski	hehe	[19:42]
pete_dushenski	kids finally starting to name names	[19:43]
pete_dushenski	rather than just "oh some small block zealots are afraid of progress" such and such	[19:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86300 @ 0.00056969 = 49.1642 BTC [+] {3}	[19:44]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392989 << ok this is super cool. nicely done phf!	[19:51]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 19:06:34; phf: ok, so http://btcbase.org/patches/	[19:51]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393047 << any merit to these 'hybrid' drives ? or just ssd or bust.	[19:55]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 19:56:14; ascii_butugychag: imho spinning rust is a losing proposition for any node.	[19:55]
*	hdbuck has quit (Quit: hdbuck)	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	!up ascii_butugychag	[19:56]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[19:56]
ascii_butugychag	pete_dushenski: the hybrid thing seems like the worst of both worlds	[19:57]
jurov	pete_dushenski: gigabytes of RAM alleviate the problem, but only if it's not too far behind	[19:57]
jurov	so I imageine it's the same with hybrids	[19:57]
mircea_popescu	hybrids are one of those "maybe when it grows up" techs.	[19:58]
pete_dushenski	aha. good to know as i'm on the hunt for a new node hard drive and, given this, might as well spring for ssd.	[19:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65951 @ 0.00056022 = 36.9471 BTC [-] {3}	[19:59]
pete_dushenski	any ssd brands to avoid ?	[19:59]
BingoBoingo	https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/43pqky/bitcoin_core_will_soon_replace_the_industry/czk0ral	[20:00]
assbot	Zotamedu comments on Bitcoin core will soon replace the industry standard random number generator with a homebrew script. Sorry for your loss (of entropy) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q8QotN )	[20:00]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Avoid SSD's which seem inexpensve for their capacity	[20:00]
BingoBoingo	SSD market pretty much consists on Samsung, Intel, and other firms that just use surplus parts from samsung	[20:01]
jurov	"Comming soon, custom memory allocator!" :B	[20:01]
ascii_butugychag	hybrid is guaranteed not to help a node.	[20:02]
ascii_butugychag	because node is a random access affair.	[20:02]
ascii_butugychag	the ~locality~ is small.	[20:02]
jurov	i disagree	[20:02]
pete_dushenski	ok. now any idea why ssd's are all 2.5" ?	[20:02]
ascii_butugychag	not so	[20:02]
ascii_butugychag	plenty of 'msata' etc	[20:02]
jurov	after syncing i have moved older half of blockXXX.dat on spinning rust and it did not access them very often	[20:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60312 @ 0.00056976 = 34.3634 BTC [+] {2}	[20:03]
pete_dushenski	ascii_butugychag: mkay. i just need to dig more then	[20:03]
ascii_butugychag	and if pete_dushenski is really asking why there are no 3.5" ones, it is for same reason as why not 5.25	[20:03]
ascii_butugychag	because wtf	[20:03]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: that was because ~nobody is actually setting up new nodes	[20:04]
ascii_butugychag	or moving old coin	[20:04]
jurov	but feeding new nodes is not random-access affair. spending old coin, now that's something else	[20:04]
jurov	but if it was not spent often so far, i hardly expect that to change	[20:05]
*	ascii_butugychag still thinks that blockchain mask rom ought to be a product	[20:05]
ascii_butugychag	why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten.	[20:06]
ascii_butugychag	mask rom is approximately indestructible, costs precious little to make, uses minimal current, etc	[20:06]
jurov	so? burn the old half to bd-r. checkbox marked.	[20:06]
ascii_butugychag	slow	[20:06]
ascii_butugychag	and now you're ddosable.	[20:06]
ascii_butugychag	(when it becomes known that asking for old blocks makes you spin a motor)	[20:07]
jurov	ha! let the enemy start moving his precious pre-2011 coinz	[20:07]
ascii_butugychag	he doesn't need to actually move'em	[20:07]
ascii_butugychag	just pretend to	[20:07]
ascii_butugychag	you ~will~ have to load the blocks	[20:07]
ascii_butugychag	(to see that his tx is invalid)	[20:07]
jurov	that will be stopped by index which stays on ssd	[20:08]
ascii_butugychag	how does this help ?	[20:08]
ascii_butugychag	index just ends up telling you to fetch the ancient block.	[20:08]
ascii_butugychag	bitcoin as presently conceived requires random access.	[20:09]
*	TheRealJohnGalt has quit (Quit: TheRealJohnGalt_ is here)	[20:09]
jurov	ok. anyway, should be not hard to have a bit in the index saying tx has all otutputs spent with 1000... confirmations	[20:10]
*	ascii_butugychag bbl	[20:12]
*	ascii_butugychag has quit (Quit: leaving)	[20:12]
jurov	(but yes that's HARD, i believe electrum does this and it makes full sync almost impractical even on ssd)	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag> why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. <<< ironically, cheaper to save on hdd than on the mask rom. yet.	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	but yes, this is a point.	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	especially seeing that glass storage thing i read about.	[20:18]
*	felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[20:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51650 @ 0.00056012 = 28.9302 BTC [-] {3}	[20:21]
BingoBoingo	ok. now any idea why ssd's are all 2.5" ? << You know these things work in 3.5" and even 5.25" bays... Even work with same cables.	[20:23]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: mhm. can use mounting bracket too if you don't feel like taping it on. i guess the 2.5" size meets the 90% of buyers using it for laptops and the 10% of buyers using it for desktops aren't excluded either.	[20:25]
BingoBoingo	Many of them will include the bracket in the retail box	[20:25]
*	pete_dushenski is a hdd/sdd buying noob	[20:25]
*	danielpbarron too	[20:26]
danielpbarron	and this line of questioning interests me; i've been meaning to get one of those things too	[20:26]
danielpbarron	or more than one; does it make sense to make a raid? and for that matter what's the right thing to buy for that?	[20:26]
danielpbarron	i've got this nice beefy workstation but i'm still using my 10 year old hard drives	[20:27]
BingoBoingo	Kinda makes sense to do raid 1 for redundancy and faster reads	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	depends what you wanna do. raid 1 works well for security ; raid 0 for speed	[20:27]
danielpbarron	i mean hardware controller; i think i recall reading asciilifeform saying hardware is only way to raid	[20:28]
gernika	I have raid 1 (hardware) going with 2 ssds	[20:28]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-01-2016#1386437	[20:29]
assbot	Logged on 26-01-2016 19:24:59; ascii_butugychag: (as far as i'm concerned, there is ONE manufacturer of raid cards)	[20:29]
gernika	3ware	[20:29]
gernika	9560SE-4LPML	[20:30]
BingoBoingo	Anyways my take on the SSD market is the stuff Samsung is willing to brand as theirs is the safest in a longevity way. Who the fuck knows which is least likely to have evil baked in.	[20:30]
BingoBoingo	As alf graciously contributed http://qntra.net/2015/02/your-disk-controller-and-you/	[20:33]
assbot	Your Disk Controller and You \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1PNrD5T )	[20:33]
pete_dushenski	curious if asciilifeform is buying sandisk, samsung, intel(!), amd, or other ssd atm.	[20:33]
pete_dushenski	so far it looks like the sandisk 'extreme pro' is the best bang for the buck in the 480-500gb segment. though all are free to point me to something better!	[20:35]
pete_dushenski	bbl	[20:37]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Sandisk, AMD, etc is all Samsung parts	[20:39]
BingoBoingo	Or was last I checked.	[20:39]
BingoBoingo	Intel for a while did their own thing, but I am unsure if they still do.	[20:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 240616 @ 0.00055963 = 134.6559 BTC [-] {5}	[20:39]
*	kakobrekla sent numerous 'go fuck yourself' letters to sandisk for their policies with usb drives and will never buy their shit again	[20:39]
gernika	BingoBoingo: how about Micron?	[20:41]
BingoBoingo	gernika: I don't know about them and SSD's.	[20:41]
jurov	in related news, the "kingdian" shit survived several rewrites already	[20:42]
BingoBoingo	sweet	[20:43]
jurov	i wonder if many-MLC SSD is fullfilling alf's dreams of ROM :D	[20:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00055836 = 20.1568 BTC [-] {2}	[20:48]
fluffypony	sorry mircea_popescu, your secret is out	[20:54]
fluffypony	[01:29:21] he seems quite certain of himself and even writes that he refuses to accept it wont work	[20:54]
fluffypony	[01:29:45] in his universe, his words are absolute - its quite funny to read	[20:54]
fluffypony	[01:51:12] JackH: He does that on purpose, to manipulate the type of people who choose to read his blog.	[20:54]
fluffypony	[01:51:34] The secret is that he isn't arrogant at all -- only pretending.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	lies, all lies.	[20:55]
fluffypony	no you're only pretending, now we know the truth	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	stop saying rumpelskiltstin.	[20:55]
fluffypony	:-P	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	IT WONT DO YOU ANY GOOD	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	if i read one more fucking printf statement i'm going to start murdering people again. bbl.	[20:56]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu begins to feel the burn!	[20:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109763 @ 0.00056264 = 61.7571 BTC [+] {3}	[21:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00056419 = 30.3252 BTC [+] {2}	[21:14]
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BingoBoingo	!up t	[21:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.0005642 = 3.357 BTC [+]	[21:26]
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pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393454 << interesting.	[21:34]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 23:38:18; BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Sandisk, AMD, etc is all Samsung parts	[21:34]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393458 << what's sandisk's usb policy ?	[21:34]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 23:39:03; *: kakobrekla sent numerous 'go fuck yourself' letters to sandisk for their policies with usb drives and will never buy their shit again	[21:34]
BingoBoingo	Now that gernika brought it up, apparently Micron also makes nand and SSD's	[21:34]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393077 << apparently boeing doesn't have enough 'mass market' engineering to do these days so is contributing their engineering expertise to... golf clubs. callaway drivers in particular.	[21:36]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 20:06:49; ascii_butugychag: having it with somebody who understands nothing of how his civilization is put together, to whom flashlight, pc, boeing, are equally magical - is a snore.	[21:36]
pete_dushenski	not like aerodynamic performance matters in the slightest when you're joe average swinging his driver at 75 mph, but hey mr. tourstar who swings at 110+ mph notices a difference, however marginal, and that's good enough for joe !	[21:41]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393428 << a) only because 'economy of scale' b) hdd total cost of ownership IF YOU NEED 100% uptime is quite high	[21:45]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 23:17:36; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. <<< ironically, cheaper to save on hdd than on the mask rom. yet.	[21:45]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393433 << i buy iron brackets for'em, cheap	[21:45]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 23:24:07; pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: mhm. can use mounting bracket too if you don't feel like taping it on. i guess the 2.5" size meets the 90% of buyers using it for laptops and the 10% of buyers using it for desktops aren't excluded either.	[21:45]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1393451 << bunch of'em, no intels	[21:46]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 23:32:54; pete_dushenski: curious if asciilifeform is buying sandisk, samsung, intel(!), amd, or other ssd atm.	[21:46]
asciilifeform	but see also the raid thread	[21:46]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-01-2016#1386469 <<	[21:46]
assbot	Logged on 26-01-2016 19:40:17; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i like raid5, among other reasons, because it makes life very painful for boobytrapped hdd supplier	[21:46]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: will reread. cheers.	[21:46]
pete_dushenski	"So that is a long way of saying that Callaway has reshaped the Speed Step on the crown of the XR 16 driver, but at least you now know that a whole lot of thought and time has gone into it from the best brains from two of the top aerodynamic engineering companies around. The result is the XR 16 driver that has a 30% lower head drag and a 10% lower face drag than the original XR driver." http://www.golfalot.com/Portal	[21:50]
pete_dushenski	imagesblogs/callaway/xr16/reviewdriverwave.jpg << ok that's actually notbad…	[21:50]
assbot	Golfalot.com > Page Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1UED3gz )	[21:50]
pete_dushenski	http://www.golfalot.com/Portals/0/imagesblogs/callaway/xr16/reviewdriverwave.jpg	[21:51]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UED4B7 )	[21:51]
*	assbot removes voice from t	[21:51]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski plays?	[21:51]
pete_dushenski	well even !	[21:51]
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asciilifeform	neato	[21:52]
pete_dushenski	the number of sports where one isn't saddled with other idjits (and their trivial hierarchies) are few and far between. thus i grew up doing swimming, golf, badminton, tennis, running, yoga, etc.	[21:52]
asciilifeform	where i live, it is an 'old man game'	[21:53]
pete_dushenski	it's quite popular here with all ages. my theory is that it has a similar swing plane to hockey, which is the ~most~ popular, and works well as a seasonal alternate.	[21:54]
pete_dushenski	though most take it up in their 20s and 30s because they're a) bored and need the frustration, and b) need to play for 'business' reasons on account of many alrger firms having annual tournaments.	[21:55]
pete_dushenski	larger*	[21:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86900 @ 0.0005583 = 48.5163 BTC [-] {5}	[21:56]
pete_dushenski	i started around 13yo, peaked in '09 when i won the club championship at one of the two most competitive private clubs in town. only play two, maybe three times a year now as i find it a bit abusive to swing that hard now and can think of a several books i'd rather read with 6 hours of continuous time.	[21:58]
pete_dushenski	coincidentally, my golf equipment is almost exactly the same vintage as my computing equipment and i similarly see no benefit to upgrading either.	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[21:59]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Just wait until you need an orthopedic computer	[22:00]
pete_dushenski	though i suppose the golf ball is the equivalent of the hdd/sdd - it breaks, you "lose" it, and does actually need to be replaced eventually.	[22:01]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: what do you think i'm using now ?	[22:02]
BingoBoingo	One that's not as orthotic as you'll need after pantagruel spends a decade using you as a thing to climb on	[22:03]
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pete_dushenski	i tremble at the thought...	[22:05]
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pete_dushenski	holy shit is chopin the worst fucking composer to listen to when trying to read or write. what an obnoxious fucking twat!	[22:05]
pete_dushenski	BANGBANGCLASHBANGBANG. all goddam day.	[22:06]
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pete_dushenski	i'm sure his pieces would make for excellent theatre, but they make the worst study partner.	[22:06]
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pete_dushenski	http://conbody.com/ << one for BingoBoingo	[22:09]
assbot	ConBody ... ( http://bit.ly/1UEFJed )	[22:09]
pete_dushenski	"The story behind the workout is almost as good as the workout itself: Coss Marte developed a unique and effective exercise program without the need for any equipment while doing his time. and now he helps you to do yours."	[22:10]
asciilifeform	lifting other prisoners ?	[22:10]
asciilifeform	(traditional)	[22:10]
pete_dushenski	"While serving a sentence in his 9’x6′ prison cell, Coss lost 70+ lbs. in just six months. From that experience, Coss refined a unique fitness program combining fun cardiovascular, aerobic, and running exercises and now he has brought this exercise program back to New York City."	[22:10]
pete_dushenski	back ?!	[22:11]
pete_dushenski	back to alcatraz, sure, but nyc ?	[22:11]
pete_dushenski	in other news, this lead-in made me loller >> "At the University of Kentucky, taco knowledge is power."	[22:13]
pete_dushenski	https://munchies.vice.com/en/articles/you-can-now-study-tacos-at-the-university-of-kentucky	[22:14]
assbot	You Can Now Study Tacos at the University of Kentucky \| MUNCHIES ... ( http://bit.ly/1UEGmEs )	[22:14]
pete_dushenski	"This semester, the university is offering an undergraduate course called “Taco Literacy: Public Advocacy and Mexican Food in the US South.” Led by Steven Alvarez, an assistant professor in the university’s Writing, Rhetoric, and Digital Studies department, the class aims to teach students about Mexican foodways in Kentucky and the broader South."	[22:14]
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pete_dushenski	inb4 "HOW DID I END UP WITH ALL THE DEBT AND NO TACO STAND JOB PROSPECTS ??!"	[22:14]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes mod6 if teh esteemed foundation'd give an opinion on http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ kthx. << I'm reading through the post, must grok.	[22:16]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q70TOa )	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	mod6 take your time!	[22:16]
mod6	cough3rd timecough	[22:16]
mod6	there is some good Q&A in the comments.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	yeah it's kinda rare for trilema comments to take off these days.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	btw i realized that mircea_popescu might single-handedly cause delay-line memory to come back.	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	but i thought you foamingly hated it!!1	[22:17]
asciilifeform	l0l wut	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	when the post showed up.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	but no, it's really not fair - i spring stuff like this on people that's been many months in the building and then what, they gotta have an instareaction ?	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	i cheat.	[22:18]
asciilifeform	not so much hated, as didn't see the win	[22:18]
asciilifeform	but think about, if you had the blocks circulating in a light pipe, the nonce operation is... O(1)	[22:19]
asciilifeform	just shift the phase.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	think about it lol. it didn't just fall from the sky, it's a construct!	[22:20]
*	pete_dushenski to dinner	[22:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00056306 = 20.5235 BTC [+] {2}	[22:24]
jurov	http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116397	[22:25]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UEI3BP )	[22:25]
jurov	^to work as intended, the nonce must depend on included transactions in mined block, too	[22:26]
jurov	imo designing something that forces miner to have fast random access to all whole blocks is a cryptographical challenge	[22:30]
asciilifeform	http://qntra.net/2016/02/shaun-bridges-arrested-for-attempting-to-flee-united-states/#comment-44523 << lulzy	[22:30]
assbot	Shaun Bridges Arrested For Attempting To Flee United States \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sp0i0S )	[22:30]
asciilifeform	quoted for the logz:	[22:32]
asciilifeform	'From the court filing for his recent arrest it looks like this was a fairly clever trap set for Bridges. There's a reference in the last paragraph of the filing to a still-sealed warrant for Bridges' arrest. Apparently they got this sealed warrant issued BEFORE they released him, then let him out for the occasionally-offered "time to tidy up your affairs" post-sentencing/pre-incarceration. This isn't too unusual, but ONLY for	[22:32]
asciilifeform	convicts with near-zero flight risk. So it's very very strange they offered this to Bridges, and he's an idiot for not wondering WTF was up. Anyways, looks like he fell into the trap. Now they've got him back as well as all the goodies in his "go bag". I'm guessing that "go bag" was the point of the whole excercise.'	[22:32]
mod6	asciilifeform: cool with you if i send those re-worked patches to the ML?	[22:34]
asciilifeform	mod6: sure why not	[22:35]
mod6	well, they're your things!	[22:35]
asciilifeform	mod6: they wanted to live in ml	[22:35]
asciilifeform	and do me a favour and say what'll need to get reground	[22:35]
mod6	ahhhhhhh	[22:36]
mod6	now we get to it.	[22:36]
mod6	so even though I was able to press out shiva, et. al.; it might be worthwhile to make a list of which patches need to be included to make it work.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	there were precisely 2	[22:37]
mod6	i think there is some confusion there. as you saw in the logs.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	3, rather	[22:37]
asciilifeform	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html << these	[22:37]
assbot	[BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP )	[22:37]
asciilifeform	and http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000202.html << fix	[22:38]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Shiva bug fix. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pq7ven )	[22:38]
asciilifeform	and, for anybody who missed it the first two times,	[22:38]
asciilifeform	!!! >>>> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2016#1392305 <<<< !!!	[22:38]
assbot	Logged on 01-02-2016 05:13:50; asciilifeform: tinyscheme genesis is NOT PART OF TRB !!1111111111111	[22:38]
mod6	so shiva part 1 & part 2 + shiva fix.	[22:39]
asciilifeform	aha.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	jurov answered.	[22:39]
asciilifeform	btw this is the kind of question a working vtron oughta answer in <1sec	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	and on this specific topic - i'd prefer if all discussion happens there. it'll become impossible to track if we just do the usual layered cake.	[22:40]
mod6	i kindof agree.	[22:40]
adlai	mircea_popescu: apologies for retardation, i may have just posted my comment twice	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	'From the court filing for his recent arrest it looks like this was a fairly clever trap set for Bridges. <<< heh.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	adlai i dun think it lets you do that really.	[22:41]
mod6	I, jurov, am hereby submitting the treasurer's reward in full as my	[22:42]
mod6	tax payment to the Foundation.	[22:42]
mod6	Thanks!	[22:42]
*	adlai waits for the day when usg stagehands and muppeteers donate their entire income to the IRS (saves on paperwork!)	[22:44]
jurov	ben_vulpes do you intend to maintain v.py? all its unittests break from several causes	[22:45]
jurov	like alf's expired key you bundled in	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	adlai well, buffett donated his secretary's. that count ?	[22:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00055706 = 2.8132 BTC [-] {2}	[22:56]
mod6	i thought ben_vulpes made a lisp deal?	[23:00]
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jurov	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-September/000165.html	[23:02]
assbot	[BTC-dev] V. (ver. 99K) ... ( http://bit.ly/1VHbxQN )	[23:02]
mod6	oh aight	[23:02]
jurov	generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out?	[23:03]
jurov	*v should	[23:04]
mod6	it should do what these guys were talking about before, just press up to level where key you trust has signed.	[23:04]
*	adnn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:05]
mod6	so if i get hit by a bus, and alf has signed all the patches, then you're ok as long as you trust alfie. or vice versa.	[23:05]
jurov	what about genesis?	[23:05]
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mod6	well, you press out genesis if you trust at least one person who has signed it.	[23:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00055706 = 19.2743 BTC [-] {2}	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	jurov> generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out? << holy shit!	[23:07]
mod6	which currently stands at 4 lords at this point	[23:08]
mod6	genesis.vpatch (asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, mod6, trinque)	[23:08]
jurov	ok i get it, it's using other people sigs	[23:08]
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mircea_popescu	mod6 vaguely unrelated points. the owner's death guarantees a key with an expiration date will expire ; it also guarantees the trust for it needn't ever be updated - dead men tell no lies.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	consequently the expiration date makes no sense whatsoever.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	take chetty's key. if it expires tomorrow, what does that change exactly ?	[23:09]
mod6	nada.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	so basically key expiration as a concept is broken, in that it induces a wrinkle between phenomena and representation.	[23:10]
mod6	in the case of v, if she had created a patch, and she was the only one who signed it and her key expired tomorrow, well, someone better grok it and sign it who's in the current lordship	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	or else simply ignore key expirations forever.	[23:10]
mod6	ya	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	jesus' key also expired.	[23:10]
mod6	i didn't know he was a crypto guy	[23:11]
mod6	:D	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	technically, as per catholic doctrine, jesus must have been a crypto guy.	[23:11]
mod6	the history you don't know... or how does it go?	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:12]
jurov	that's not catholic doctrine	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	jurov hm ?	[23:12]
jurov	catholic is that truth is what living Pope signs.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	because peter, because jesus.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	there's a filiation there.	[23:13]
jurov	and there were two popes and whatnot	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	not as per doctrine :)	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	that is lay history!	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	anyway, throwaway point, lettuce move on.	[23:14]
jurov	i just happened to stumble upon it cuz vulpes' test data has only one - alf's signature per patch	[23:15]
mod6	you know, im pretty sure that my v ignores expired keys.	[23:16]
jurov	guess i should stop wasting time with it and approach v from completely other direction	[23:16]
mod6	try it out, grab v99996, grab alfs expired key and drop it in your .wot	[23:16]
mod6	see what happens.	[23:16]
jurov	tomorrow.	[23:18]
mod6	whenever is cool. :]	[23:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165200 @ 0.00056477 = 93.3 BTC [+] {4}	[23:31]
mod6	ok so pressed out shiva with V -- used what is currently in the mirror (including alfs PVS) + what is stated above: shiva 1 & 2 + shiva fix, compiles and works:	[23:37]
mod6	#>(btc-get-best-height)	[23:37]
mod6	396226	[23:37]
mod6	that's for ben	[23:37]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/1B4ZZFP.txt	[23:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UERsJA )	[23:38]
mod6	be back in a few to sort out the patches that need re-grind after I submit the integrated programmable-version-strings vpatch and the reground mikehearn one	[23:38]
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mod6	actually, i think we're ok here because the only parts that changed in the new patches are main.cpp and serialize.h	[23:57]
mod6	lemme compile & test with the new patches + shiva 1 & 2 + fix	[23:58]

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