Forum logs for 25 Sep 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mircea_popescu: mod6, alrighty. [00:04]
billymg: http://billymg.com/2019/09/additional-tests-for-mp-wp-now-according-to-spec/comment-page-1/#comment-49 << mircea_popescu: i now see what you mean about the pingbacks supporting the extra selection parameters but i'm still not sure what is meant by "trashing the whole trilema trackback pile as extant, and having them re-done in the new manner" [00:26]
billymg: i did some reading on pingbacks vs trackbacks and it looks like we could remove trackbacks without anyone noticing (mp-wp supports pingbacks and that seems to be what everyone is using) [00:27]
billymg: i'm not sure if that's what you meant though [00:27]
billymg: or is the idea to rip out all unused pieces in xmlrpc (blogger, metaweblog, movabletype, etc...) and rewrite the pingback support keeping the select mechanism rather than layering it in after the fact? [00:30]
billymg: keeping the select mechanism in mind* [00:30]
mircea_popescu: billymg, the removal part is easy, just delete * from comments where trackback [00:43]
mircea_popescu: the resending is the issue [00:43]
mircea_popescu: every time a new article is posted, there's some subroutine that goes through all the links and sends the pingbacks. the idea is to hijack that so it re-does the entire db [00:46]
billymg: ah, so more of a one-time job/script? [01:25]
billymg: or, i guess i mean, could a migration script of sorts that's run once manually accomplish the same goal? [01:45]
billymg: mircea_popescu: i could be completely missing the point though, i'm still not very familiar with pingbacks outside of the small bit i've read since you mentioned it [03:25]
mircea_popescu: billymg, did you ever find the trilema article re how to re-do your missed pingbacks ? [08:24]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yup, was the cap. [09:43]
mircea_popescu: fucking chinesium, everythings just a name now. "oh, gigabyte". really, sucker ? why not hagen daasz! ITS DANISH ICECREAM [09:44]
mircea_popescu: from fucking newark. [09:44]
diana_coman: it's gigglybit! [09:47]
mircea_popescu: it's a sadness. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: anyways. i will now review my wot in preparation for deedbot updates! [09:48]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-22 05:14:26 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-21#1937508 << no, rating of 9 specifically, able to self-voice. [09:48]
mircea_popescu: !!rate asciilifeform 9 his lordship the lord admiral [09:48]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=NhNj [09:49]
mircea_popescu: !!rate diana_coman 9 her ladyship the marquess eulora. [09:49]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QbmJ [09:49]
mircea_popescu: !!rate hanbot 9 her ladyship the lady falconeer. [09:49]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=D__w [09:49]
mircea_popescu: hey, who knew, my little gimmick with the titles years ago makes this way the fuck easier now. win. [09:49]
mircea_popescu: !!rate mod6 9 his lordship the lord high steward. [09:50]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=7lun [09:50]
mircea_popescu: !!rate BingoBoingo 9 his lordship the lord goebbels. [09:50]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TWsB [09:50]
mircea_popescu: !!rate Mocky 9 ἀποκρισιάριος دولة قطر‎ [09:51]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0n8a [09:51]
mircea_popescu: !!rate ben_vulpes 1 used to be the Lord of the Well, but meanwhile http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934268 [09:55]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:37:26 trinque: bv wishes not to be raised, and I shan't press the issue further. [09:55]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=uLQs [09:55]
mircea_popescu: i suppose another side effect of all this is that it turns 1 ratings into a sorta morgue. [09:56]
mircea_popescu: "mp, you can't negrate him, we can't sell to him if you do" "fuck. i don't wanna 0 it either, it'll disappear from the lists" "well..." "fuuuuck" [09:56]
mircea_popescu: what can you do. [09:57]
diana_coman: hm why does 0 disappear from the lists though? [09:57]
diana_coman: isn't that the natural morgue? [09:57]
diana_coman: 0 is not "no rating" [09:58]
mircea_popescu: !!rate phf 1 http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823 [09:58]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=IqaX [09:58]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, traditionally setting it to 0 is how you unset it. [09:58]
mircea_popescu: i suppose, retrospectively, this is implementation of folly, there's no possible usecase for ACTUALLY ever unsetting a rating. [09:59]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: yes, but not sure I see the point of "unset" it's 0 [09:59]
diana_coman: exactly. [09:59]
diana_coman: tbh it sounds a bit like discovering that 0 "exists", lol. [09:59]
mircea_popescu: this is so but for the sake of sanity im not gonna spec significant changes in the middle of implementing a differen tspec. [09:59]
mircea_popescu: it does at that. [09:59]
diana_coman: aite. [10:00]
mircea_popescu: we'll get to this later, i say. [10:00]
mircea_popescu: it's philosophically fraught, because as per the spec a rating of 0 should convey that the rater deems he can answer NO questions about the ratee. in which case... why is it a rating. [10:01]
mircea_popescu: of course, this could readily also bear the alternative interepretation of "there is nothing the rater WISHES TO SAY". [10:02]
mircea_popescu: we can mull it over till april. [10:02]
mircea_popescu: !!rate trinque 9 his lordship the master of the rolls. [10:02]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XXR3 [10:02]
mircea_popescu: !!rate ave1 9 his lordship the lord logiciel [10:03]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=2TJi [10:03]
mircea_popescu: !!rate lobbes 9 his lordship the lord of the auction house [10:03]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ECNn [10:03]
mircea_popescu: there lolz, now you don't have to regret etcetera keks [10:03]
mircea_popescu: it'll benefit the nooblets immensely if they seriously spend some time groking the "turn" thing. there's a time for everything and for most things that time isn't NOW. [10:05]
mircea_popescu: !!rate spyked 9 his lordship the lord crypto-alchemist [10:06]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Oz06 [10:06]
mircea_popescu: !!rate billymg 2 promising noob [10:06]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=14t_ [10:06]
mircea_popescu: !!rate mp_en_viaje 9 my travel key. [10:07]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mtpi [10:07]
mircea_popescu: !!rate nicoleci 2 slavegirl [10:07]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=3obS [10:07]
mircea_popescu: ah, that wasn't even all that painful in the end. [10:09]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: is there some eta/requirement on/for the castle-licensing thing? on my part I'm fine with it as stated. [10:14]
mircea_popescu: nah was gonna do them next. [10:15]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937779 - I think this is quite exactly what 0 rating means, yes. [10:29]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 07:01:56 mircea_popescu: of course, this could readily also bear the alternative interepretation of "there is nothing the rater WISHES TO SAY". [10:29]
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that people wish to say different things in different contexts. [10:29]
mircea_popescu: the converse is folly, "oh, girl doesn't show her cunt". of course she does. just, maybe not to you. [10:30]
diana_coman: hm rather: 0 = there is history of interaction but there is nothing to say of the person currently (dead @ the morgue, precisely) onth no rating means no history whatsoever. [10:33]
diana_coman: so yes, nothing the rater can/wishes to say of the current "person" still, they can/wish to say something of the past-identity if one asks [10:34]
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform scores on his choice of epithet. amir-al-bahr used to be "commander of the fleet", but the dwellers in the lower part of the kingdom of two sicilies (a byzantine remnant) thought it's rather something else. [10:35]
mircea_popescu: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=7IqJ [10:45]
deedbot: accepted: 1 [10:45]
mircea_popescu: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=cuVS [10:45]
deedbot: accepted: 1 [10:45]
mircea_popescu: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YaNz [10:46]
deedbot: accepted: 1 [10:46]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other luzl, check out diana_coman being a prophet in her own country [10:48]
diana_coman: heh, /me likes asciilifeform's dominus admirabilis [10:48]
diana_coman: lol! that is probably among the easiest thing to prophesize, esp in land of shepherds [10:50]
mircea_popescu: ikr, [10:51]
mircea_popescu: well... considering that i've been doing nothing all morning but fuck qwith cryptosystems, perhaps it could be said i've earned a breakfast. [10:52]
mircea_popescu: bbs! [10:52]
diana_coman: enjoy! [10:52]
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-596500.txt [11:16]
bvt: mircea_popescu: i.e., in this context my rating remains +2, hence no self-voice in #trilema? [11:23]
mircea_popescu: this is a problem innit. [11:33]
mircea_popescu: not even just for bvt, also say nicoleci [11:36]
mircea_popescu: i suppose the only workable solution here is indeed to admit http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-22#1937525 was actually ill-considered. yes 9 specifically might mean lordship, but that's not === selfvoice. [11:38]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-22 05:14:26 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-21#1937508 << no, rating of 9 specifically, able to self-voice. [11:38]
mircea_popescu: so check this out trinque i changed my mind! http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-21#1937508 << rating < 1, actually. [11:39]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-21 23:53:50 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-20#1937433 << should be very easy, i.e. wrapped this weekend or next. to confirm, same rules as deedbot : nonzero rating -> able to self-voice? [11:39]
mircea_popescu: damn, rating > 1. so 2 trhough 10 inclusive. [11:39]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: isn't bvt lord verschlimmbessert? [11:40]
mircea_popescu: wtf happened here [11:41]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I think this issue with self-voice vs lordship comes from #trilema being both republican halls (ie lords discussion) and your own training halls (hence nicoleci's problem to self-voice if only-9 can do it) [11:43]
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << he certainly is. nfi, what happened was i went by my ratings but his wasn't updated since february. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: i suspect the issue was, didn't update his rating then because traveling or w/e, and look the havok it wrought downstream. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: srory bvt , clerical error. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: !!rate bvt 9 his lordship the lord verschlimmbessert [11:45]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=AoSf [11:45]
mircea_popescu: !!rate nicoleci 2 i own her [11:46]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=sHqU [11:46]
mircea_popescu: that'll be a doozy to translate to latin when he asks for his castle deed huh! [11:46]
bvt: yes, this is what i was talking about, ty. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: okies, did i fuck anything up ? since i'm right here at the instruments and can readily fix it. [11:46]
diana_coman: I was just going/checking through the list and it seems everyone on the list got their 9 rating [11:47]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, that's it exactly, im also running a slutteria here among other things [11:47]
diana_coman: for that matter, travel keys won't be able to self-voice but I don't see a real problem with that. [11:50]
mircea_popescu: mine is lol [11:50]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: doh lol. [11:51]
mircea_popescu: though i see a problem now : i rated it 9. [11:51]
diana_coman: but no, I wouldn't ask to have my travel key 9-rated. [11:51]
mircea_popescu: !!rate mp_en_viaje 2 my travel key. [11:51]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=od2c [11:51]
mircea_popescu: who else wants travel keys tehn ? [11:51]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: mine is diana_alt [11:52]
diana_coman: !!key diana_alt [11:52]
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/40AA4323AC0CC4F1888C529D37F970EA7BE9160A.asc [11:52]
mircea_popescu: !!rate diana_alt 2 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937852 [11:52]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 08:36:17 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: mine is diana_alt [11:52]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jtcj [11:52]
hanbot: !!key hanbot_abroad [11:52]
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/21407B3B5FB85C255DBFE463615BE7B45FE6A04F.asc [11:52]
hanbot: ^mircea_popescu [11:53]
mircea_popescu: !!rate hanbot_abroad 2 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937858 [11:53]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 08:37:00 hanbot: !!key hanbot_abroad [11:53]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ORFQ [11:53]
mircea_popescu: aaalrighty, that's done. [11:56]
hanbot: tyvm [11:59]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in wikilulz, "She had permanently got actively involved in the society through institutional, civic and mediatic journals regarding philosophy, political science and the process of democratization in Romania." [13:47]
mircea_popescu: anyway, vaguely interesting orc couple. he (adrian), minor philosophist wanna-be, writing twice a decade minuscule nothings ("what is not existence", 1994). she, mirela, doing ~exactly~ nothing. both born in the periphery, mid 50s, exactly another inginer-profesoara couple like so very many at the time. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: except, of course, he's briefly director of the us influence publishing house, in 1990. then he disappears, with the purging of usgistanis in 1991. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: then... she reappears. in 1998 he's annointed secretary of state, out of strictly nowhere she gets the political science deanship at the bucharest university, also out of nowhere. and from there, beautiful http://trilema.com/2017/in-case-you-were-wondering-where-all-the-worthless-nuland-drones-ended-up/ careers in the delightful wooden tongue of the new socialism : "In 2000, she instituted the first postdoctoral programm [14:00]
mircea_popescu: e of Political Science in Romania at Faculty of Political Science, National School of Political Studies and Public Administration, Bucharest. She added in the university curricula courses like feminist philosophy at the University of Bucharest, Faculty of Philosophy. In 2001, she had coordinated and the first collection of Gender Studies, Polirom Publishing. Moreover, her involvement developed the Political Science Curricu [14:00]
mircea_popescu: la in accordance to the Bologna Programme, being a member of the evaluation commission in 1997. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: She founded the country's first gender studies Master's program in 1998, and helped to organize one of its earliest independent women's nongovernmental organizations: AnA –The Romanian Society for Feminist Analyses. She is an expert advisor to both UNESCO and the European Union, and has won international fellowships at Cornell University, Oxford University and the Central European University in Budapest. She was also a F [14:00]
mircea_popescu: ulbright recipient and was resident in the Department of Political Science at Indiana University in 2003–2004. " [14:00]
mircea_popescu: and so ongoing -- in case you were wondering why bologna is such lulz, or why feminism is such a nothing, or so forth. all a concoction of convenience we enslaved all their good spies back in 1992, and well... all that's left is all that's left, a different flavour of institutionalized womanhood / [14:00]
mircea_popescu: caged tit. [14:01]
mircea_popescu: went as far as it could, but as you might notice, dude's blog's as abandoned as this whole 2000s lulz. [14:01]
* asciilifeform eats log... [14:21]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937738 << i admit, not yet seen one since '90s where it wasn't the cap [14:22]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 06:27:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yup, was the cap. [14:22]
asciilifeform: it's come to where it almost makes sense to recap'em ~straight out of crate~ [14:22]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937828 << outta curiosity, why not let the +1 people speak if they wake up ? ( or is idea that returns from grave oughta go straight to castles ) [14:25]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 08:23:44 mircea_popescu: damn, rating > 1. so 2 trhough 10 inclusive. [14:25]
* asciilifeform bbl,teatime [14:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, cuz im not that interested. [15:04]
mircea_popescu: apparently there's need for a not-negative, nonzero number. 1 has been coopted. [15:04]
mircea_popescu: in practical terms makes exactly 0 diff if you 1-rate or 2-rate noobs. plenty of space to 9. [15:05]
asciilifeform: graveyard orbit eh. [15:31]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937874 << seems like the termites they sent, work approx as well as spies ever did [15:32]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 10:44:58 mircea_popescu: and so ongoing -- in case you were wondering why bologna is such lulz, or why feminism is such a nothing, or so forth. all a concoction of convenience we enslaved all their good spies back in 1992, and well... all that's left is all that's left, a different flavour of [http://trilema.com/2011/serviciul-nemuririi-partea-i/#comment-131551][institutionalized w [15:32]
mircea_popescu: how the fuck well are they gonna work. good spies believe in something. [15:50]
mircea_popescu: the cult of superficial convenience is incapable of producing good spies much like it's incapable of producing artistic capodopera , or industry masterpieces. [15:51]
mircea_popescu: what they produce is garbage -- and on a "fair terms" comparison, i truly do not believe anyone can outdo socialism's per-capita, per-unit time, per-unit consumed or per-anything else garbage production. [15:52]
mircea_popescu: much like matter-antimatter reaction's the most intense energy debit known to nature, "representative democracy" is the most intense garbage debit possible in society. [15:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these new 'spies' aint tryin to bring back seekritz, but instead simply spread rot, a sort of bipedal smallpox blanket. seems to work [16:24]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: that's...spores, not spies? [16:30]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aha [16:30]
asciilifeform: aka вредители. [16:31]
mircea_popescu: keks. spores, aplty put. [16:32]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the smallpox is necessary the orcs left undisturbed turn into fucking scotts. [16:33]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in world of chinesium : 'lichee' co. is selling a 2.5x3cm arm7 w/ 32MB on-chip an' various periphs , for 7 $ in qty . [16:37]
asciilifeform: with the modest ram, not a rk competitor, but potentially useful for other applications ( has 3 serial ports, so can eat FG ) runs 'pogo'-style linux, so can stuff even classic gpg in can have nic plug attached, so potentially even host small net proggies pulls coupla milliwatt, so could work in radio relays or similar. [16:39]
asciilifeform: subj photo. [16:41]
asciilifeform: + pinout . [16:44]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937867 >> 'Director, National Socrates Agency, Romania 1995 – 1997' << lol, yet another 'nsa' i had nfi about!111 [17:15]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 10:44:39 mircea_popescu: anyway, vaguely interesting orc couple. he (adrian), minor philosophist wanna-be, writing twice a decade minuscule nothings ("what is not existence", 1994). she, mirela, doing ~exactly~ nothing. both born in the periphery, mid 50s, exactly another inginer-profesoara couple like so very many at the time. [17:15]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in castles, 1 of diana_coman's students has some imho some notbad pieces on his www. [17:46]
asciilifeform: seems to have grasped various points as he lurked. [17:57]
asciilifeform: and a++ z80 ! [17:58]
mircea_popescu: could use more reading. eg : "How can, for example a compiler be in any way even remotely political?" >> http://trilema.com/2015/the-downtrodden-are-downtrodden-for-a-reason-step-on-their-faces/ specifically discusses it. [18:12]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/09/systemds-poettering-wants-to-break-linux-user-management-to-suspend-his-laptop/ << Qntra -- SystemD's Poettering Wants To Break Linux User Management To Suspend His Laptop [18:13]
mircea_popescu: moreover, functional technology (as epitomized by Bitcoin) is definitionally, necessarily and unavoidably anti-socialist. so much so that reliably one can use the reverse heuristic : if something doesn't shit on the needy, doesn't it make it harder for the stupid and more expensive for the poor, that something is most likely shit, not technology [18:14]
mircea_popescu: , nor science, nor good law, nor anything but. [18:14]
mircea_popescu: so yes, there's ~IMPLICIT~ policy in [trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/][intellectual stance] : if you're smart, you're here if you're not here, you're ~THEREFORE~ dumb. and so following. [18:15]
mircea_popescu: anyways the name sounds familiar [18:16]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-04-02#1635956 << defo [18:17]
snsabot: Logged on 2017-04-02 11:49:48 jhvh1: Hello thorntron. Who is your daddy and what does he do? [18:17]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc he was at some pt 'tomservo' [18:17]
mircea_popescu: oh is it ? [18:17]
mircea_popescu: well anyways [18:17]
asciilifeform: electronics fella. meanwhile went an' learned greek. [18:18]
mircea_popescu: nb, [18:18]
asciilifeform: for the l0gz: 'Years ago, a “technical” decision was made by a core gcc developer named Drepper to break static linking. This means that no useful binaries can ever execute on Linux without dynamically linking to certain libraries making the proposition of distributing signed binaries futile, making the proposition of secure software futile, making the proposition of Bitcoin futile, making the proposition of sound money futile, m [18:19]
asciilifeform: aking the proposition of free trade futile. Whether or not Drepper is aware of the political implications of the of his technical decision is irrelevant to the fact of their existance. Nevertheless, there is a belief by technologists “educated” at ITT and the public equivilants that software can exist outside of politics. As a result the US has a legal system that runs on Word, a financial system that runs on Excel, and a voting [18:19]
asciilifeform: system that runs on Windows.' [18:19]
asciilifeform: imho notbad schoolb00k summary. [18:19]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937913 << btw these need the 'htt...' for the parser to fire [18:23]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 14:59:46 mircea_popescu: so yes, there's ~IMPLICIT~ policy in [trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/][intellectual stance] : if you're smart, you're here if you're not here, you're ~THEREFORE~ dumb. and so following. [18:23]
* asciilifeform considered how to get 'naked' links to work, but concluded that it's prolly undecidable [18:24]
asciilifeform: could, naturally, force ~any~ text found in the 1st clause of a [][] pair to linkify, but will give yet entirely diff flavour of brokenness in other cases [18:24]
asciilifeform: incidentally, if anyone can think of a cleaner way to parse the 2 types of link ( [][] and naked htt.. ) than what's given in asciilifeform's reader.py , i'd like to hear about it. ( presently there's a quite ugly 2-step transform, as apparently it is impossible to regexp-transmute a grammar w/ 2+ patterns in 1 step ) [18:31]
asciilifeform: the current algo, for thread-completeness. [18:33]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937909 - that's precisely the sort of tasks he got because yes, needs to do more reading and to do *better* reading by the looks of it the US doesn't teach people how to read, somehow, it's rather unbelievable. [18:42]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 15:12:25 mircea_popescu: could use more reading. eg : "How can, for example a compiler be in any way even remotely political?" >> http://trilema.com/2015/the-downtrodden-are-downtrodden-for-a-reason-step-on-their-faces/ specifically discusses it. [18:42]
asciilifeform: achtung panzers! piz pipe down ?! [19:55]
diana_coman: seems so [19:55]
asciilifeform: paging BingoBoingo ! [19:56]
diana_coman: well, apparetly he was connected from piz too, lol [19:56]
diana_coman: ossasepia.com (pizarro) is down too, yes [19:56]
asciilifeform: dulap unreachable for 1st time since year+ ago when bb elbowed the mains cord [19:56]
diana_coman: apparently back on [19:58]
diana_coman: wb BingoBoingo ! [19:58]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: did the bot get out of sync now ? [20:01]
asciilifeform: snsabot re synced via diana_coman : http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-raw/trilema?istart=1937934&iend=1937941 [20:01]
asciilifeform: let's verify: [20:01]
asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937944 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937944 [20:01]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 17:01:14 asciilifeform: let's verify: [20:01]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 16:45:28 asciilifeform: let's verify: [20:01]
asciilifeform: no one spoke on other chans , and i turned the crank in time. but we're gonna want to automate these. [20:02]
asciilifeform: pretty interesting outage, too, net pipe gone for 3min or so (boxes still up, so not mains failure) [20:02]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: fwiw I was keeping a bit mum precisely to give you time to sync bot when I saw it went down first then ofc everyone @piz went down [20:03]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: loox like i'ma have to resync in #o tho. [20:04]
asciilifeform: would be good if didn't have to be done w/ bare teeth, but i'ma do, brb [20:04]
diana_coman: and yes, have to automate sync [20:04]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 15:54:49 diana_coman: well, syncing indices is gotta be automated not manual hunting though [20:04]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: pretty strange, seems that they fell outta sync ~before~ this outage ?! [20:08]
asciilifeform: see e.g. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-raw/ossasepia?istart=1003800&iend=1003942 vs http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-raw/ossasepia?istart=1003800&iend=1003942 [20:09]
diana_coman: ugh is that the first out of sync line? [20:09]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: yours is missing a line somewhere >day ago [20:10]
diana_coman: ugh [20:10]
asciilifeform: snsabot dun appear to have missed any lines in #o during the mystery-outage [20:12]
diana_coman: looking in my local log, there was no talk in #o between snsabot out/in [20:13]
asciilifeform: correct [20:13]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc you had a student write a db differ ? is this posted ? could then find why yours is missing 1ln [20:13]
diana_coman: yes, it's at http://s.ragavan.co/2019/09/bash-scripting-to-compare-the-ossasepia-logs/ [20:15]
asciilifeform: mine appears to be 100% current ( haven't seen re lobbes's yet ) , diana_coman invited to pipe from there. [20:16]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to make inquiry at piz house , see if they have an answer re dafuq , e.g. 'today we vacuumed the switch' [20:17]
asciilifeform: wb BingoBoingo [20:23]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: When was the event in question? [20:23]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: roughly 10min ago [20:24]
asciilifeform: moar precisely, tho, Sep 25 15:52:30 * snsabot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) << from asciilifeform's local (new york time) log [20:25]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform noticed ~2m after [20:25]
asciilifeform: Sep 25 15:56:32 * trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #trilema << marks end of outage. [20:26]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is there any clock drift on the machine that logged that? [20:26]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nope, this is from a box asciilifeform physically sat on, gets reclocked regularly [20:26]
asciilifeform: outage was ~4min long. asciilifeform did not even lose his shells. (tho was long enuff for fleanode) [20:27]
asciilifeform: i.e. defo not a mains current outage. [20:28]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo fwiw smg servers did not reset so certainly not overall mains outage [20:29]
BingoBoingo: Definitely no mains outage happened [20:29]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aha, dulap likewise not reset [20:30]
asciilifeform: the likely thing is that someone somewhere physically moved a plug. [20:31]
asciilifeform: ( when asciilifeform was a sysop, never took 4 whole min to move a live cable. but whoknows, orcs ) [20:31]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Will take a look and send a note. [20:34]
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo [20:34]
asciilifeform: fwiw it's possible that the 'hm, i'ma unplug, then go smoke, and then plug in' took place upstream of piz. [20:34]
mircea_popescu: o look, linux being reclaimed already [20:51]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937926 << yeh my bad. [20:53]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 15:07:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937913 << btw these need the 'htt...' for the parser to fire [20:53]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937932 << i suspect it's quite deliberately systematic, actually. [20:54]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 15:27:04 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937909 - that's precisely the sort of tasks he got because yes, needs to do more reading and to do *better* reading by the looks of it the US doesn't teach people how to read, somehow, it's rather unbelievable. [20:54]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 15:12:25 mircea_popescu: could use more reading. eg : "How can, for example a compiler be in any way even remotely political?" >> http://trilema.com/2015/the-downtrodden-are-downtrodden-for-a-reason-step-on-their-faces/ specifically discusses it. [20:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the way i read it, he starts with rhetorical 'but how could be political' then proceeds to show entirely edible concrete example [20:55]
asciilifeform: i.e. demonstrates that understands answer is 'yes, noshit' [20:56]
asciilifeform: ( or did mircea_popescu divide by 0 an' crash before got to that part..? ) [20:57]
* asciilifeform brb,teatime [20:57]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, on reread yes, i see it. [20:57]
mircea_popescu: did not crash, but i do parse. [20:59]
diana_coman: on the other hand, since he's been apparently slaving away in web-shitstack & python for ages, he'll have a stab at the multi network bridging thing we'll see if he cuts or breaks his teeth on it [20:59]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-19 05:39:18 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, an' considering we're apparently stuck with a buncha chrises over here : any of your resident knights capable of registering a chan on ~any other network~ and writing the bridge code on top of extant bot already ? [20:59]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937949 << funny, i had been describing this sorta issue for a while ? [21:02]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 16:46:54 asciilifeform: pretty interesting outage, too, net pipe gone for 3min or so (boxes still up, so not mains failure) [21:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yours was specific to dulap ( where phuctor db was being walked just as mircea_popescu happened to load ) , recall that other boxen were unaffected [21:30]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this 1 was a piz-wide outage. [21:30]
asciilifeform: i recall 1 previous similar, ~30sec long, last yr [21:31]
mircea_popescu: still could benefit from more reading. "hoi polloi" for instance is a syntagma with great english history. [21:33]
asciilifeform: picture is consistent with 'monkey unplugged then went to smoke', i.e. 100% packet loss for ~4m. [21:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, hm, perhaps so. [21:33]
asciilifeform: wb hanbot [21:34]
hanbot: howdy [21:34]
* asciilifeform bbl:meat [21:41]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937958 - damn it, made me write a bash+awk to fish it out ffs, line 1001471 [21:57]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 17:10:20 asciilifeform: diana_coman: yours is missing a line somewhere >day ago [21:57]
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937788 << /me goes to re-read said article [22:30]
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-25 10:05:45 mircea_popescu: it'll benefit the nooblets immensely if they seriously spend some time groking the "turn" thing. there's a time for everything and for most things that time isn't NOW. [22:30]
lobbes: our three loggers seem to be in-sync w/re: to #t: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937944 http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937944 [22:31]
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-25 20:01:23 asciilifeform: let's verify: [22:31]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 16:45:28 asciilifeform: let's verify: [22:31]
mircea_popescu: pretty cool. [22:44]
asciilifeform: oh hey neato [23:08]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz consider to put said bash+awk in 'contrib' dir of vtree [23:09]
asciilifeform: lobbes: i relit mine via curl "http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-raw/trilema?istart=1937934&iend=1937941" > foo ./eat_dump.py foo trilema 3 [23:13]
asciilifeform: ( granted this only worx if there's no conflicting tail, i.e. you get to the console just in time. failing that, (presently) gotta drop the conflicting tail in db before snarfing ) [23:14]
asciilifeform: was thinking re how oughta do auto-syncs. one possible method, is for bot to take command via pm, e.g. !q sync 1000 http://logs.ossasepia.com would then walk last N (here, 1000) ln, and offer 'identical', 'diverges prior', or 'diverges at I', I is index, and offer alignment, operator (set in config who) can then confirm or reject [23:18]
asciilifeform: if choose 'confirm' then eats all changes req'd to get to 'identical' . [23:19]
asciilifeform: another method would be that periodically tests against loggers given in config, and pm's operator if and only if finds divergence. [23:19]
lobbes: in general auto-sync would be nifty. but just like the manual method, would need to wait until "dead time" to prevent new lines appearing during the sync wouldn't it? [23:22]
lobbes: or perhaps I'm missing something [23:22]
asciilifeform: lobbes: not if it knows how to drop the broken tail [23:22]
asciilifeform: lobbes: 'tail' here being whatever lines come after the gap, and thereby have erroneous index #s [23:23]
lobbes: ah okay. that makes sense [23:23]
asciilifeform: currently this is a gnarly manually-cranked process, as ./eat_dump.py deliberately is made so ~not~ to import any line that conflicts with existing index [23:23]
asciilifeform: ( could of course add a cmdline param to it, to enable overwrite ) [23:24]
asciilifeform: thing is -- imho it is poor practice to blindly pick another logger and overwrite massive chunk of own db with it w/out mechanically testing that they diverge strictly in favour of the other [23:25]
asciilifeform: otherwise you could easily end up importing the other logger's hole vs yours [23:25]
asciilifeform: so far all the gaps have been small enuff to visually examine, but this will not necessarily remain the case [23:26]
asciilifeform: mechanical diffing, meanwhile, is tricky because ordering is already known to differ ( almost guaranteed to differ when bots are speaking, one's own bot's output ~always~ enters log before that of other bots but also can differ elsewhere on acct of fleanode weather ) [23:27]
lobbes: hmm this makes me rethink my current design re: mp-wp bot as well. As it stands, there is no way to "re-sync" since it just spits the lines into a blog post. [23:28]
asciilifeform: hence why imho resync ~must~ be a semi-automatic, rather than automatic, process. [23:28]
asciilifeform: lobbes: it's 1 of the reasons why asciilifeform did not like mircea_popescu's original tip re how to bake logger ('just pipe it into a wp') but mircea_popescu did specifically ask for 1 that does exactly that, for own www, i presume he knows what he's doing [23:29]
lobbes: yeah, I'll guess I'll let the man speak to if he wants sync capabilities in the mp-wp-tronic branch [23:30]
asciilifeform: lobbes: as i understand, with that type of logger you'd have to regen all of the pages that include or follow the gap, in order to close a filled gap. [23:33]
asciilifeform: ( and to do it very quickly, else someone could easily speak during the regen, and leave you unsynced again ) [23:34]
lobbes: indeed. Would just be a buncha "update" statements that fill in the proper lines. As it currently is designed, I have it spitting lines into a flat file first, and that file is used to update the "current day's log" post as new lines are seen [23:37]
lobbes: in theory, could index the lines in that file, so as to preserve ordering, as well as keep more than one file (currently, this one file is overwritten on each new day) [23:38]
lobbes: but idk, perhaps this is more complex than MP wants it to be [23:38]
asciilifeform: lobbes: see what mircea_popescu says when wakes up. [23:50]
asciilifeform: imho a logger that can't resync at all, aint much of a logger. but at the same time i dun see why a generate-statics logger couldn't be made to resync. simply a bit moar complicated. [23:53]
asciilifeform: it'd be a 1st class bitch to resync ~from~, however. but fortunately we have other types of loggers that know how to emit lines x..y for given x/y [23:54]
Category: Logs
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