Forum logs for 24 May 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
esthlos: trinque phf et al: << further steps on the vtron. currently it is freaking out when used with my ccl 1.11.5 . the make-temp-dir function phf provided throws an error on the first invocation, which prevents use as an executable, but oddly the function works if I return to the top level and then call it again. [00:45]
esthlos: to be clear: prevents use as an executable with ccl. sbcl seems to work fine [00:46]
esthlos: I'm not free again until Friday evening, so I won't be able to respond or do anything until then [00:47]
trinque: esthlos: just built it, looks like it's trying to create temp keychains in root [00:51]
* trinque will dig deeper [00:51]
trinque: built it with sbcl [00:51]
trinque: changed the temp keychain dir to /tmp and hey! successful press! [00:52]
trinque: fuck yeah. [00:53]
esthlos: hmm [00:57]
esthlos: i've notices that the behaivor of sbcl and ccl for make-pathname is slightly different [00:58]
esthlos: okay, the keychain in root should be fixed now [01:02]
esthlos: but gotta sleep now. night [01:03]
trinque: laters [01:08]
ave1:, I think the text is too technical. This is my try: [05:42]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 07:15 ben_vulpes: lobbes, BingoBoingo (and mod6 and asciilifeform, mircea_popescu if he's inclined) here's a draft of the copy for the shared hosting landing page: [05:42]
mircea_popescu: in re / : there are a few dozen accounts advertising western union payments on localbitcoins. the majority of these are neets in orclands trying to live off shaving website-enacted realities (as an alternative to living off / / etcetera -- it's evidently a lifestyle, the french fries / grocery bagging of 2018). [09:27]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 04:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, confirmed, not within scope of review. [09:27]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: but anyway, im off to manage some efforts to research the world for pizarro's benefit inter alia, so bbs. [09:27]
mircea_popescu: western union expects you to know a magic number ("mtcn", 10 digits) the sender is issued upon sending, and present id. the sender only needs your name and city where you pick up payment. western union will ask you a bunch of inane questions (where you live, who the sender is, how do you know them, what's the money for, etcetera) for which they require no documentation. [09:27]
mircea_popescu: the first time you use a piece of id for id they'll also want a photocopy of it, and plenty of "wu locations" are in fact a counter in a pivapollo place somewhere, without a copier (they see no problem with this). about one in ten "wu locations" have not the cash on hand to make payment, and they see no problem with this, either. [09:27]
mircea_popescu: (i ran 0.1 tests, so about 700 bucks. how a 10`000 sq foot of floor space electronics-and-white-goods specialist can not have made 700 bucks worth of sales by mid day is anyone's fucking guess. here is mine : nobody but me has any money.) [09:27]
mircea_popescu: you can expect actual payments in your hand in 1 to 2 cases out of ten tries (defining a "try" as having initiated a tx on localbitcoins -- which btw jumps randomly for unclear reasons), worth about 90% of the lulsite price. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: you can further expect a strong showing of scammers. these will be variations of "here's something, release payment". in about half the cases these are advanced enough to output some kind of official-looking falsified screenshot / whatever bizarro standards of visual certification of truth they use in their world (no, douchebag didn't come up with the screencapping on his own, it's a thing in his age-peer group, the "proof"). [09:28]
mircea_popescu: a minority are sophistica [09:28]
mircea_popescu: ted enough to issue a fake "mtcn" (number-password western union expects you to know), try to get you to release payment, and then pretend like they "cancelled" for whatever imaginary reasons when you come to complain western union didn't have it -- a splendid way to waste an hour or so in city traffic. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: the vast majority of localbitcoin lusers will require ~major~ amounts of decerebrated handholding (indulging them may improve the 1 to 2 in 10 figure quoted above), in the form of incessant messenger-style confirmations and encouragements, "yes really, let's really, we're really doing this" etc etc, easily 20 dribblets / head. the damage wrought on the preteen brain of the contemporary 20something by "smart"phones and "apps" [09:28]
mircea_popescu: is in full display. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: i would say it is an absolute requirement for pizarro to maintain a localbitcoins account and sink in the required time to build itself a network of known-good users, as these in fact appear to exist, and may constitute humanity candidates / come in useful laterally. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: currencies other than eur and usd were out of scope for this amusement, though i doubt there's much meaningful existence in the "currencies other than eur and usd" category. [09:34]
asciilifeform: ty for the experimental work, mircea_popescu ! [09:44]
mircea_popescu: hey, now you know what i mean by intel / how reports look / stuffs and things. [09:44]
asciilifeform: << BingoBoingo does have a reliable wu ~emittter~ : we've used it for his meat refuel, since day1 [09:45]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:27 mircea_popescu: western union expects you to know a magic number ("mtcn", 10 digits) the sender is issued upon sending, and present id. the sender only needs your name and city where you pick up payment. western union will ask you a bunch of inane questions (where you live, who the sender is, how do you know them, what's the money for, etcetera) for which they require no documentation. [09:45]
mircea_popescu: well yes, but it's a numbers game. what's one buy you. [09:45]
mircea_popescu: the more gfs you have, the less you care about girls on the rag. [09:45]
asciilifeform: i mean for receiving. in re the 'some emitters are counters in pivapollo and lack dough' [09:46]
mircea_popescu: ah ah. [09:46]
asciilifeform: << does this translate into the losse of 80% of the coin ? or do i misread [09:47]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: you can expect actual payments in your hand in 1 to 2 cases out of ten tries (defining a "try" as having initiated a tx on localbitcoins -- which btw jumps randomly for unclear reasons), worth about 90% of the lulsite price. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: nah, you lose nothing, there's a green button "release bitcoin" you don't click. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: well, nothing besides administrative overhead, of course, of course. some of these are cancelled on the spot, some end up disputed, the whole ghostly dance of inexistent items trying to pretend to existence. [09:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they have an automated escrow thing, see. localbitcoins i mean. here : 1. people tender offers 2. you close one 3. they either cancel or mark it as satisfied 4. you check and either release payment or dispute 3. [09:50]
asciilifeform: aaaaa [09:51]
asciilifeform: i gotta rtfm [09:51]
mircea_popescu: i didn't include a description of how lb works. [09:51]
mircea_popescu: SO AS TO SAVE SPACE!@!!11 [09:51]
asciilifeform: ok this makes sense. [09:51]
mircea_popescu: (also, i hope everyone is reading pivopollo correctly as /pɪvopõʎɔ/, yes) [09:55]
* asciilifeform can't picture any other reading, lol [09:55]
mircea_popescu: you never know. [09:56]
Mocky: for noobs, what does that mean, approx? [09:58]
mircea_popescu: Mocky, [10:00]
a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 04:19 phf: pivo and pollo mexican russian fusion food odessa, tx [10:00]
mircea_popescu: though i like how you gave up any hope of "what does that mean, no approx" >D [10:00]
mircea_popescu: bbs putting this into the lexicon. [10:01]
Mocky: ahh, ty [10:01]
mircea_popescu: << this is altogether not terrible. if it's not much of a landing page, at least it's clean and legible. [10:07]
mircea_popescu: some people even like the engineer-spawned failures at commercial speech but seriously now, what THE FUCK do they do in highschool these days ?! the whole point of the exercise, once they gave up teaching anyone anything back in the 70s, was "you go to hs to learn how to talk to girls and businessmen". [10:07]
mircea_popescu: Mocky, how do you enjoy blogging btw ? [10:16]
Mocky: I enjoy it very much. It seems worthwhile i guess having something to say. [10:18]
mircea_popescu: it's pleasant to read, too. [10:18]
Mocky: thank you [10:18]
mircea_popescu: and in fetlife lulz today, [10:21]
mircea_popescu: you'd almost suspect, "whoa, now that's a thinking chick, best landing page ever, bet you she sells all the pot she's trying to". except, of course, no such subtility or sophistication is ever to be suspected online. she's genuinely just -ing about. [10:25]
mod6: ave1: Looks like you maybe took your attempt at the Pizarro landing page down? [10:31]
mircea_popescu: << i see it. [10:31]
mircea_popescu: mod6, if not archive also has it. [10:32]
mod6: ooh, i see the problem, I clicked the link from his posting above, which my browser added the '.' on the end of the .html - this resulted in a 404. [10:34]
mod6: Thanks mircea_popescu. [10:34]
mod6: ave1: hey, not bad! [10:35]
mircea_popescu: mod6, as they gain experience linking things people learn not to put punctuation marks after the link >D [10:35]
lobbes: << I don't think being too technical is necessarily a bad thing, but my own issue with ben_vulpes' original was that a) too 'cheesy' b) too much 'digging' to unearth the selling points. Conversely, I like how ave1's version is straight and to the point (e.g. bullet points of "why Pizarro" are front and center). Good skeleton imo [10:36]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 09:42 ave1:, I think the text is too technical. This is my try: [10:36]
mircea_popescu: there's technical writing and there's commercial copy writing, much like there's technical drawing and pornography. crumb (if you ever saw the footage of his interacting with his estranged son), is imo the best example of the evanescent item here under discussion : the old man ~tries~ to tell the young squirt what to do, but of course the young'un knows better. [10:38]
asciilifeform: ave1: yours is imho the best version thus far [10:41]
BingoBoingo: << Perk of having Cambios on every corner in a cash heavy economy. [11:34]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:46 asciilifeform: i mean for receiving. in re the 'some emitters are counters in pivapollo and lack dough' [11:34]
* BingoBoingo would like to see Mocky blog hit the RSS [11:35]
trinque: I'd be happy to add it, but spyked, how's your rss bot coming along? [11:38]
BingoBoingo: !!v 7AE998500B4D88D5DF67AD02D22F14F17FE8DF83BD576F775A6FE75AD4CBFFB0 [11:39]
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated Mocky 1 << New Blood, blogs and insights [11:39]
mircea_popescu: it's mostly eulora stuff to date, you can see it in #eulora [11:51]
BingoBoingo: I've just been plugging in the url and bingereading [11:55]
trinque: mircea_popescu: [11:59]
deedbot: << Trilema - Que he hecho YO para merecer esto ? [12:00]
mircea_popescu: ^ very recommended btw. one of the best films ever. [12:00]
mircea_popescu: ty trinque [12:00]
trinque: my pleasure [12:01]
ben_vulpes: << methinks the lady doth protest too much [12:02]
mircea_popescu: heh. [12:02]
mircea_popescu: the "read something in #trilema and got moving" part '''inexplicably''' missing from [12:03]
* mircea_popescu suspects alf will be nothing short of thrilled to discover he now has the power to shape usg "law enforcement" policy. [12:04]
mod6: I think I caught BB's cold. :[ [12:05]
mircea_popescu: sharing hussies ? [12:06]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: standby for qntra input [12:06]
mod6: heheh. [12:07]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Ty [12:07]
ben_vulpes: btw thanks ave1 [12:07]
BingoBoingo: mod6: Got crackling in the lungs or just a very wet nose? [12:07]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Standing by [12:08]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, btw, did you actually come out of it back to health ? [12:10]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did indeed [12:10]
mircea_popescu: glad ot hear. [12:10]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: [12:10]
deedbot: << Qntra - Existence Of Big Botnet Made From Small Routers Announced [12:10]
mircea_popescu: that was some primo quality standby-ing! [12:11]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: the first day I felt compeltely relieved was ironically the day before I formally affiliated with a hospital here [12:11]
asciilifeform: ugh BingoBoingo [12:11]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Coincidence [12:11]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i just sent you a moar detailed piece on same [12:11]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This can be handled [12:12]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at your option, run new piece, and replace my 'cisco' link with yours [12:12]
trinque: lol [12:12]
trinque: RAID1 n00z [12:13]
asciilifeform: << i'm quite certain that they will have a show trial or two for 'putin's wreckers' who 'manipulated the price upward' [12:13]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 16:04 mircea_popescu suspects alf will be nothing short of thrilled to discover he now has the power to shape usg "law enforcement" policy. [12:13]
asciilifeform: ( manipulation downward, of course, is from their pov god's work ) [12:13]
mircea_popescu: hey be that as it may it's still more than what trump managed to date. [12:14]
asciilifeform: 'spreading -- works'(tm)(r) [12:14]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "up" and "down" may not be as firmly manifest as you personally imagine. postmodernism is bizarro world, up is down, they say hello when they leave... [12:15]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'esearchers' -> 'researchers' ? [12:19]
asciilifeform: unveilled -> unveiled [12:19]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform et al, the remedy: [12:19]
asciilifeform: err, unveil [12:19]
BingoBoingo: ty fxd [12:19]
asciilifeform: ty. [12:20]
mod6: <+BingoBoingo> mod6: Got crackling in the lungs or just a very wet nose? << got the throat tickle and the coughing is starting. [12:21]
mod6: usgbola [12:21]
BingoBoingo: lol [12:22]
mod6: these people make me sick [12:22]
mircea_popescu: oh i forgot to mention -- yest as i was moving about town somebody shot up the mexican embassy here [12:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: admittedly knowing nuffin but what i can see through my telescope, all i see in is yet another moar explicit tightening of the noose [12:22]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 16:02 ben_vulpes: << methinks the lady doth protest too much [12:22]
asciilifeform: hm what's the use in shooting up an embassy [12:23]
mod6: mircea_popescu: heavily? [12:23]
mod6: or just like "pop-pop, chinga tu madre." [12:23]
mircea_popescu: italian not mexican, sorry (they're next to each other). and yes some deds. [12:23]
mircea_popescu: [12:23]
mod6: ah. [12:23]
asciilifeform: seems like there was a specific target, tho, rather than 'embassy' [12:27]
asciilifeform: (from above item, at least) [12:27]
mircea_popescu: possibru, yeah. [12:27]
mod6: yeah, assassination. [12:27]
mod6: unless he really just didn't like the guys shoes. [12:28]
mircea_popescu: or the venezoelana moving up in the world. [12:28]
asciilifeform: re upstack -- hey mircea_popescu , recall ? i suspect that near-fyootoor usg-'regulated' 'market' will consist of 1 counter where wintel stock is dealt, where 'you can only buy' (or stand accused of 'manipulation', and another counter where bitcoin 'you can only sell' (or ditto), lol [12:29]
a111: Logged on 2015-07-08 17:08 mircea_popescu: mod6 "our free market is this thing you can only buy!!1" [12:29]
BingoBoingo: There's so many embassies in this city if there were shootings outside the slums they would just about have to be in front of an embassy. [12:29]
mircea_popescu: it's how the soviets did it, isn't it ? in that brief interval between when they died and when they fell. [12:30]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, shootings outside of slums is a little like shittings outside of bathroom. [12:30]
BingoBoingo: Hey, both happen here. [12:30]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: maybe in moar 'western' sovblok places like ro, with the 'tehnologia navigatiei cu vele' tricks. in proper su, economy was sufficiently 'demonetarized' that nothing directly comparable afaik existed. [12:31]
BingoBoingo: Just not as frequently as back home [12:31]
mircea_popescu: i doubt that. what was the black market dollar rate in 1985 moscow ? [12:31]
* asciilifeform can't give a decently accurate answer, wasn't there [12:34]
asciilifeform: 'exchange' is possibly wrong q tho, what's it mean to have 'exchange rate' when the local orc coin dun buy much [12:34]
asciilifeform: in whatever qty [12:34]
mircea_popescu: ro was about 100 lei to the dollar, making the avg salary then about $30 or so. (per month, about 1/30 or so of us average salary at the time). [12:35]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, local coin does always buy ~something~. drujba, whatever it may buy. [12:35]
asciilifeform: well sometimes all it buys is nth copy of 'navigatiei cu vele', lol [12:35]
asciilifeform: ( are these to be assessed as pulp ? ...firewood ? ) [12:36]
mircea_popescu: exactly like "what does dolalr buy today" ? "well, if you disperse it enough, it buys you some inept wrangling from local orcs". exctly like how $1mn does not buy you much but if you break it into $20 chunks you can have "marketing online" "services" from retarded university-of-maryland-criminlogy whores, [12:36]
mircea_popescu: just so a chunk of rubles bought nothinmg, but if broken into small eno9ugh chunks it bought you say state secrets. [12:36]
mircea_popescu: it's always going to be a purely aribtrary market created by authority fiart, whether it's "write this string on your tits" or "tell me the string yulyiana has written on her tiots" [12:37]
asciilifeform: rright, the abstraction where money is a scalar and the operations commute, associate, and transpose, is a peacetime thing [12:37]
mircea_popescu: rather, a "i don't know how to write sales copy" thing. [12:37]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the one thing the soviets (all of them) did well was confound the issue. see, because "not consumer but industrial economy", various industrial goods were significantly cheaper, and all sorts of consumer goods significantly more expensive, than in "real world" of reagan thatcher and friends. [12:40]
mircea_popescu: consequently, some at least cursory argument could be had that the price signals are substantially enough different to not be comparable (and god only knows how many man-hours the inept "intel" services of the firm of r, t & f spent trying to discern if official ruble is .5 or 4 to 1 dollars TRULY.) [12:41]
asciilifeform: prolly similarly wasted hrs as gorby & friends tried to discern 'how many dollar is ruble TRULY' [12:42]
mircea_popescu: they had a comparatively easier time, seeing how they had much better control on trade. [12:43]
mircea_popescu: democracy has well documented troubles controling what people buy. soviets... hey, only state could buy anything anyway. [12:43]
mircea_popescu: stalin says "4:1 because 14:1 is ridiculous", that's what it is. [12:43]
asciilifeform: ( internal mechanics of ruble is a tall bag of lulz about which not errything even today is known. but there were several ~independently-circulating subspecies . one of which technically existed until even 2010 or so ! ) [12:43]
asciilifeform: ^ speaking of ~su~ ruble specifically [12:44]
mircea_popescu: anyway, but yes, the principal reason ru had a relatively easy time in the 80s (unlike, say, 2015s argentina) is because VERY LITTLE dollars in private hands. [12:44]
mircea_popescu: which is why it's important to keep the influx going. [12:44]
mircea_popescu: (and yes it was a crime to own bitcoins for soviet citizek.) [12:45]
asciilifeform: recall hruschev's retroactive death sentence for the gold peddlers. [12:45]
asciilifeform: !#s rokotov [12:46]
a111: 0 results for "rokotov", [12:46]
asciilifeform: hm. [12:46]
asciilifeform: hmm is there no english ver of this anywhere..?! [12:47]
asciilifeform: holy FUCK they turned 'rokotov & fainberg' into... a jeans brand in usa [12:48]
mircea_popescu: (anyway, for documentary lulz : once the russkis introduced a vague approximation of an interbank currency market in 1991, the volumes traded were in the 10mn range. this is ALL THE DOLLARS IN THE COUNTRY. think.) [12:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, what else ? usa, where ideas go to die. [12:49]
mircea_popescu: and also : no real interdependence of price and supply. generally, when the supply increased the price also increased while when the supply dropped, the price also dropped. [12:51]
asciilifeform: the latter sounds like symptom of 'nope, not a market, but some d00d pushing it' [12:52]
mircea_popescu: rather, it's a symptom of rarity. the currency function of a good depends on some contextual properties if there's few enough dollars in the country, the dollar bill is less money and more... artwork, say. becomes a kind of stamp. [12:53]
mircea_popescu: in order for something to be money it must be "at least this common" much like in order for locusts to swarm they must be touched at least this often by other locusts. [12:53]
asciilifeform: right, makes sense [12:54]
mircea_popescu: moreover, currency collapse is always driven by naggum's idiots ("in order to be in a position where one must either strike or die, one must have put themselves into such a position, for instance by expecting to buy a lot of things they coudn't make"). the camp/blackface duality ( ) is very much apropos : without a "nouveau riche" class, ie, without a b [12:57]
mircea_popescu: unch of missionaries, there can be no explosive devaluation. [12:57]
mircea_popescu: this is the deep issue uniting "rock and roll in the soviet union" with "malinche, lover of hernan cortes" : without a ~well connected local~ to spit on the local items, there can not be a serious devaluation of them. [12:58]
mircea_popescu: the key ingredient for the "shovel-and-wheelbarrow" mark in germany isn't so much the paper itself, as it is the individuals who'd have traded "all of this" for "any little of that". [12:58]
asciilifeform: iirc this imaginary spirit that flies away from the wheelbarrow mark/ruble , the chinese called 'mandate of heaven' [12:59]
mircea_popescu: can be, yes. but in any case -- there's no such thing as blackface devaluation. blackface is ALWAYS a camp phenomenon. [13:00]
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry. i mean, ~devaluation~ is always a camp phenomenoin. [13:00]
mircea_popescu: also, understand the very informative self-destructive pattern that became evident in dying su and was by all appearences well understood by "western world", judging at least by how they keep trying to apply it : [13:01]
mircea_popescu: suppose you have the following elements : I[ndustry], producing goods whichg can be exported and needing materials and equipment to be imported and P[opulace], expecting to be paid a living wage (anyone's pretense to the contrary are idle, all the advanced socialist peons want or ever wanted was "cash for being here", that'\s why socialist states even exist or ever existed, to provide that, from napoleonic france onward) an [13:03]
mircea_popescu: d to be able to spend it. [13:03]
mircea_popescu: now, the needs of I are relatively fixed the "needs" of P vary. should P decide that it only wants import goods, you may be tempted to create a "tourist" rate for the foreign currency [13:03]
mircea_popescu: should you do that, you'll have a directly addressable measure of wrecking : the Ps will push the TR above the level where I can finance its import needs out of the receipts for its exports. [13:04]
mircea_popescu: this is called "inefficiency", but it's not industrial inefficiency, it's socially-mediated pseudo-inefficiency created by the Ps deliberately (if "unknowingly") choking out I because they've decided they want their country dead. [13:05]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oh hey is this what was behind the 'viermi neadormiti' remark ?? [13:05]
mircea_popescu: i said before that the principal question of the 80s was "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, "but is it made here ?". this'd be why. [13:05]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, ayup. [13:05]
mircea_popescu: the people involved weren't ~stupid~, see. notwithstanding what the officious jews "all agreed". [13:06]
* asciilifeform can see with unarmed eye that they weren't [13:06]
mircea_popescu: now, the "creation" of "ethereum" is entirely out of the playbook of clinton "bringing rock'n'roll dollars to moscow" or mp bringing dollars to buenos aires etc. [13:07]
mircea_popescu: the only unexpected element is the discovery that the population of fucktards ~wasn't actually relevant~ for the republic. [13:07]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an old piece about the mechanics of dope 'pushing' . where 'pusher' ~creates~, rather than satisfies (as per classical economic model a merchant might) appetites [13:08]
mircea_popescu: otherwise, same processes were supposed to work the same way and most of the peripheral agents not in the "need to know" bubble are even to thsi day claiming they worked as supposed. [13:08]
asciilifeform: this is (uncontroversially) how su brass saw the proverbial 'import jeans' [13:08]
mircea_popescu: of course it is. much like anyone with head out of ass sees apple as apple. wtf would they have seen it as. [13:09]
asciilifeform: or for that matter, summed up in 'сегодня ты играешь джаз а завтра родину продашь'(tm)(r) [13:09]
asciilifeform: ('today you're playing jazz, tomorrow you'll be selling out your motherland') [13:10]
mircea_popescu: anyway. so the rate that'd have allowed soviet industry a positive epsilon return on capital goods was cca 10-20:1 in 1992 (depending how and what you sort) and the "tourist rate" was 60:1. bingo. [13:10]
mircea_popescu: "i wonder why" etc. [13:10]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, this understanding nevertheless does NOT relieve the soviet brass from having had to and having failed to either a) produce something alternatative for them to sing or b) shoot them all, a la maduro. [13:11]
asciilifeform: i still suspect that it would not have been winnable even if closer game ratiowise it went almost like the smallpox-vs-indians item. orc konsoomer had no immune cells against veblenism and 200+yrs of fine chumpatronics perfected in the west [13:12]
mircea_popescu: either of which is a perfectly acceptable solution, but one of which MUST always be deployed. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, kinda why we have the negrate mechanism. cheap and effectual, better than any kalash. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: and kinda why they're stuck with the "legitimacy" mechanism, "gadaffi is not the legitimate owner of syria" [13:13]
mircea_popescu: or i'm sorry, venezuela, what was it. france. [13:13]
asciilifeform: hey they also had it, at one point the l1 got together and all went rate -1 hruschev old fart [13:13]
asciilifeform: (spoiler -- didn't help) [13:13]
mircea_popescu: understand though -- they were ALL WHISPERERS. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: they never fucking sat down to speak the truth. [13:14]
asciilifeform: supposedly they did. but their logs ~to this day~ seekrit. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: and you're thinking of the wrong side of this. nevermind -1 hruschev. think -1 yuri derpopovich herpopov. all 50 mn of them. not "prevent emigration", but dump at sea ~everyone. [13:15]
mircea_popescu: lose 90% of the population over a five year plan. [13:15]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, isn't "secret logs" === whisperers ? [13:15]
asciilifeform: i usually picture 'whisperers' as , graphtheoretically, a noncomplete clique [13:16]
asciilifeform: whereas 'secret ck-kpss log' presumes ~complete [13:16]
mircea_popescu: i just see it as wankers, the sort that could participate but doesn't. [13:16]
asciilifeform: but wanking together in circle jerk, or pairwise. [13:16]
mircea_popescu: matters ? [13:16]
asciilifeform: imho they're usefully separable species [13:17]
mircea_popescu: anyway --- if i ran the moscow polytechnic, the advertisement would have been "either make it in the 1% or else we will paradop you in america, or whatever other african shithole you belong to". [13:17]
mircea_popescu: and then enforced it. [13:17]
mircea_popescu: the ~punishment~ for ~failure~ to perform exceptionally well would have been a one way ticket to jeansland. [13:18]
mircea_popescu: and fucking stay there. [13:18]
asciilifeform: in this picture, who plows/sows/reaps/works conveyors/guards gulag fence ? martians ? [13:18]
mircea_popescu: machinery / imports. [13:18]
mircea_popescu: nobody says the land must be worked. fucking hunt. [13:18]
asciilifeform: ( stalin had the 'purge excess meat' thing down to fine art, but he never approached 20% much less 90 ) [13:19]
asciilifeform: lol hunt. and hunt wild tank and wild uranium on the hoof, yes [13:19]
mircea_popescu: he didn't live in a world where this was possible. but by 1980 -- eminently doable. [13:19]
asciilifeform: the populous neighbours overrun you, game ends, gotta restart civ1... [13:20]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you are sitting there seriously proposing to me that a man-and-his-bushels uranium mining op is more productive than a mechanized item ? [13:20]
mircea_popescu: bs. [13:20]
mircea_popescu: if populace was the criteria, should have applied for admission as chinese ssr in 1972. [13:20]
mircea_popescu: but populace eminently is not the criteria, which is why the "totally not a dating site" "community" of fetlife can't stand up to... me. [13:21]
asciilifeform: they sorta did apply, when they ~stopped breeding [13:21]
asciilifeform: chinese ssr is ~reality today. [13:21]
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'tiny but clever population standing up to maxint orcs by way of robot and deathray' is ~the~ american geofantasy isn't working out so well for them [13:22]
mircea_popescu: yes it is. but the argument presented is specious in either reading -- there's no "neighbours overrun", and if there is -- the proposed measures did nothing about it. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, because they're not at ALL serious about "clever". [13:22]
mircea_popescu: when's the last time a bearer of us passport confronted a "be this tall or die" dilemma ? [13:22]
asciilifeform: conceivably this is a 'sufficiently smart compiler'(tm)(r) item. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: because ro kids did -- various hung selves 18yo females can attest. and it is the ~only reason romania is ever mentioned by name this century. [13:23]
mircea_popescu: understand, such a thing as teenage female suicide is not known in classical works. it only appears once the need for the pressure to perform appears, at high enough tech densities. [13:23]
asciilifeform: jp teenagers self-checkout in packs, erry yr at exam week. jp still sinking into deep hole of sad. [13:24]
mircea_popescu: yes. girlies are doing their job, society is failing them. [13:24]
mircea_popescu: understand, antrhiopology is not optional, this isn't some kind of elective course. in year X, Y must be done. "not doing it" isn't meaningful -- Y' will still be done, with shitty results. [13:24]
asciilifeform: noshit [13:25]
mircea_popescu: whether you go "everyone takes exam, bottom 10% get hung by those poles in schoolyard" or you go "nobody has to do anything and i can't explain all this cutting and anorexia", it makes entirely no difference. [13:25]
mircea_popescu: the girlies need to hang they know this. [13:25]
asciilifeform: sorta why cherokee-style 'let's hunt' doesn't work , the folx who can fly choppers will pick you off, leisurely, with thermovisor and downward flechette rounds right through the tree cover. [13:26]
mircea_popescu: that "person in charge" doesn't know this, speaks as to the incredible decay of explicit understanding -- by the time you lack the words and preformed expressions to describe necessity you've fallen into pre-literate times unequal to herodotus. [13:26]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i think you misunderstood the "let's hunt". [13:27]
asciilifeform: possibly [13:27]
mircea_popescu: what have you eaten today ? [13:27]
asciilifeform: bread+roquefort [13:27]
asciilifeform: and a cuppa tea [13:27]
asciilifeform: and i think that's it [13:28]
asciilifeform: why [13:28]
mircea_popescu: and you bought these at supermarket ? [13:28]
asciilifeform: the bread, baked here [13:28]
mircea_popescu: alright. now consider this extension : [13:28]
mircea_popescu: instead of you having to contend with 5mn other idiots trying to live in the same state you have to contend with only 50k. as a result, all real estate available consists of plots in excess of 50 acres, which include a creek, and forest. goes for the same price as you pay now, but it is what it is. [13:29]
mircea_popescu: once a week or when you feel like, you don your hunt gear and go out shoot a dear phasant whatever. [13:29]
mircea_popescu: same girl that made the bread now, makes the bread then. [13:29]
asciilifeform: aaa so we're talking about cranking back to , idk, 1870 [13:29]
mircea_popescu: does this arrangement, with your private cheese cellar etc, connote some kind of techno-weakness on your part ? [13:30]
mircea_popescu: no, we're not talking to cranking back. [13:30]
mircea_popescu: we're simply talking of killing most everyone, and using the space like people rather than like rats. [13:30]
asciilifeform: not unless and until world war and it's time to send waves of surplus males over barbed wire [13:30]
mircea_popescu: and why the fuck would you do that. [13:30]
asciilifeform: and to stamp out a plane erry 40 min [13:30]
mircea_popescu: you can stamp a plane every 40min BY YOURSELF in your house [13:31]
asciilifeform: why? because neighbours started the party, why. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: see, that's the meaning of stalin-couldn't, by 80s, feasible. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: today it's fucking trivial, wtf, make planes, what's to keep you. [13:31]
asciilifeform: i dun have a molybdenum mine in house. or the rest, etc [13:31]
mircea_popescu: joe from two states down has. [13:31]
mircea_popescu: same thing you say, can and is said by today's neet. "i don't have microscope in house lel" [13:32]
mircea_popescu: sure, you don't. the reason you don't is cuz you didn't put one in. nothing else. [13:32]
asciilifeform: joe from two states down can't agree on the price. and we both get encircled and hang. or he's using his moly to make kitchen knives to sell to orcs , it's +ev for him, he thinks. or, other possible variants. [13:33]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would you even need a price, you're friends. [13:33]
mircea_popescu: he's in your wot, how couldn't he not be. [13:33]
asciilifeform: let's suppose. now it's time to mine, and transport. he does with own hands? with army of self-maintaining and self-replicating robots from yr 3000 ? or which. [13:34]
mircea_popescu: the trashing the orclands get at our hands every fucking time we deign to rape them is not enough model of how this'd go ? joe from two states down will just send you some free molybdenum because fuck those orcs, and besides, you gave him a painting last year [13:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, what fducking own hands, are you kidding me ?! NO ORC TODAY WORKS!!!! you understand thids ?! [13:34]
mircea_popescu: they're all in "government" offices going "Gimme" in a chorus. what fucking "hands" ? [13:35]
mircea_popescu: peon hands haven't seen a stitch of honest work in decades. [13:35]
asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder whether mircea_popescu is posting from a far alt-fyootoor where software actually works, where robots actually maintain selves, rather than being the end product of 500 people working around the clock, as per [13:35]
a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 06:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it. much like your finger cannot function for long or very usefully unless attached to the rest of you << so very aptly put. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: no, you do it with machinery, as everything everywhere. that's what "modern" means, that the per-capita productivity is not actually finite. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: 'per-capita' being an entirely menaingless, baseless non-notion. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, if you think the robots are maintained by orcs... [13:36]
mircea_popescu: how does this work ? is your code written by chickens, too ? [13:36]
asciilifeform: ever see photos of factory in cn ? [13:37]
mircea_popescu: no item that works, now or ever, was produced through ANY OTHER MEANS than the you-joe method discussed above. not EVER. [13:37]
mircea_popescu: some of the things that don't work don't work because no you/joe, and some don't work because IN SPITE of you-joe there werealso some orcs involved. [13:37]
mircea_popescu: but that's it. [13:37]
asciilifeform: this is not the point of disagreement rather the 'gigantic populations are obsolete' item [13:37]
mircea_popescu: dude i couldn't care less what chinese are trying to emulate white man working economy on. [13:38]
mircea_popescu: robotization is a fact modern factories don't need workers and the robots are not made by fucking hand, no. [13:38]
mircea_popescu: so... [13:38]
asciilifeform: it is entirely troo that 500 mn ameri-derps who know only how to press tv remote button, are of little use against 5mn actual people. but 500mn actual people would demolish 5. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: there's 0 utility to 99% of the us population, in economic terms. there's ~maybe~ some sexual utility in 9%. but 90% can be ablated today and without adverse effects. [13:39]
asciilifeform: recall fate of germany. [13:39]
asciilifeform: ( wunderwaffen, somehow, did not help. ) [13:39]
mircea_popescu: stalin era. [13:39]
mircea_popescu: there's a very sharp chance in 1980, which is why "the 80s". [13:40]
mircea_popescu: change* [13:40]
asciilifeform: errybody loves the theoretical possibility, of 'robot army' but afaik the problem of 'self-copying robot' (specifically iron, vs meat) was posed by von neumann and remains exactly in same place today as where he left it. [13:41]
mircea_popescu: why would this be related ? [13:43]
asciilifeform: it's entailed by the 'infinite leverage from finite hands with machinery' item. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: it is not. consider -- i can (even thouigh ben_vulpes apparently can't) spin up endless instances of whatever boxen, notwithstanding "such a thing as the self-packing os was posed by neumann and stays where it was posed" bla bla. [13:44]
mircea_popescu: other than this, "infinite" is not required. just a large enough factor, but 9 digits are far from "infinity" [13:45]
asciilifeform: anything whatsoever is possible, and with the illusion of infinity, if somebody else does the work. [13:45]
asciilifeform: ( possibly side item : not sure which ben_vulpes item is being referred to rockchip trivially copies own os to fresh unit as many times as you like ) [13:49]
deedbot: << Bingo Blog - Draft Pizarro Shared Hosting Ad Copy [13:58]
* ben_vulpes reads [13:59]
BingoBoingo: ^ ben_vulpes My attempt at ad copy [13:59]
ben_vulpes: looks pretty good to me, BingoBoingo [14:08]
asciilifeform: it's pretty good imho ought to also mention colo option [14:08]
asciilifeform: ( why restrict to marketing ~only~ shared box ) [14:09]
BingoBoingo: It could do with more links to "how to" pages including the most current Republican GPG setup guide [14:09]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, it is a draft. [14:10]
BingoBoingo: But the idea is as more offerings happen, (2nd shared account machine, etc) the page structure has room to eat them. [14:10]
ben_vulpes: gonna work it more or should i pick it up from here? fine starting point i think (will wait for contradiction), i can fill in the details. [14:12]
BingoBoingo: Well, the thing about ad copy is you gotta have economy of words. Last place you want eyes glazing over is where you are selling. [14:13]
ben_vulpes: pricing details i mean [14:16]
mod6: BingoBoingo: hey, nice job! [14:17]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i'm just picking on him. but anyway -- very large leverages are in fact both experimentally demonstrated and theoretically predicted. and the "someone else" argument is not germane -- i didn't specify who joe is if you object to my presumption that you'd be willing to work by including you, by all means, we could say sally instead. you think that does anything ? [14:20]
mircea_popescu: hanbot, [14:20]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun object in re the thermodynamics , but re the kinetics. we ain't there. yet. [14:21]
mircea_popescu: this is the sort of objection that can only be resolved by historians. [14:22]
asciilifeform: right. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: sometime after it's done. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: "evidently, at tx -- they were there" [14:22]
asciilifeform: ( recall mao's, when asked 'was french rev a good idea' 'too soon to say' ) [14:22]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile we can say. [14:22]
asciilifeform: recall, incidentally, n. tesla's crackpot screen re 'death ray will make small serbia the equal of titan germany and france' [14:23]
asciilifeform: *screed [14:23]
mircea_popescu: this is altogether dubious. [14:24]
asciilifeform: well 'dubious' is a bit soft there was no deathray [14:24]
mircea_popescu: and even if there were. [14:26]
phf: << a different outcome would've been historically appropriate [14:27]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 16:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did indeed [14:27]
mircea_popescu: lol how so ?! [14:27]
BingoBoingo: Underprepared gringo runs off to orcistan, gets done in not by human hazards, but an ancient killer is what I am guessing [14:28]
mircea_popescu: ah [14:29]
phf: no, a lot more generous. representatives of superior civilization land en force anticipating deservedly easy pickings, most of men die from conditions [14:29]
BingoBoingo: AHA [14:30]
phf: "month 6 in this godless, accursed land. last night as the fever broke the captain died, since the chaplain died a month ago, the men had to hold service, however sparse it was" [14:31]
phf: "month 12, i BingoBoingo will marry my daughter and with her start the most pure blood line" etc. etc. [14:32]
asciilifeform: lol! [14:33]
asciilifeform: 'the pack ice around our misfortunate vessel presses in, the hull strums like a banjo, lately in a quite martial tone' [14:34]
asciilifeform: or how did it go [14:34]
mircea_popescu: nb. [14:46]
mircea_popescu: phf, is there a lot of romanesque, scifi etcetera work missing from your blog ? [14:47]
danielpbarron: << sounds like oklahoma [14:52]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 17:29 mircea_popescu: instead of you having to contend with 5mn other idiots trying to live in the same state you have to contend with only 50k. as a result, all real estate available consists of plots in excess of 50 acres, which include a creek, and forest. goes for the same price as you pay now, but it is what it is. [14:52]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, no because oklahoma was selected for idiocy over two centuries. you know what brain drain is, yes ? [14:55]
mircea_popescu: "deserted hinterland" is never approximation of "world depopulated of idiots", because the former is deserted ~because everyone chose to move somewhere else~, and the smart are more capable of enforcing that choice whereas the latter is deserted ~because idiots were killed~. [14:56]
mircea_popescu: so no, eminently not like oklahoma. like soviet-occupied berlin. [14:56]
mircea_popescu: hence "the rape of berlin". [14:56]
danielpbarron: that paricular line though, the 50 acres including creek and forest, for same price [14:57]
trinque: << << leaving aside the various herpityderp, this guy absolutely is making an item that flies, and plenty of "experimental aircraft" folks make the same "in garage" all the time [14:57]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 17:31 mircea_popescu: today it's fucking trivial, wtf, make planes, what's to keep you. [14:57]
trinque: if any of them had the sense to stop at the scale model and make that a drone instead, there you go. [14:57]
asciilifeform: trinque: d00d makes the engine also ? [14:57]
trinque: don't you but-anyway me [14:58]
asciilifeform: no. if we're doing 'can stalin make planes faster than hitler can shoot'em down, using only own minerals' scaling down to garage, you do NOT get to do the '3d printer' enthusiast thing and conveniently exclude copper coils in motors etc. [14:58]
asciilifeform: all or nothing. [14:58]
trinque: why do you insist on excluding all economic models but stalin's eh? [14:59]
trinque: the linked item uses a glorified car engine these... are available [14:59]
mircea_popescu: in unrelated lulz, "faleze de nisip" is fucking hysterical for its montage of "man goes to visit den of prostitution after his obnoxious gf gets uppity and moves out". [14:59]
mircea_popescu: the commie notion of "den of prostitution" as fit to put on film... o brother. RIGHT THERE is why driving TR past any value the idiots could survive is 100% justified. [15:00]
asciilifeform: trinque: seem to be jet, neh [15:00]
trinque: nah, this thing has a rear prop [15:00]
asciilifeform: if it really does fly on toyota engine -- i promise to clap [15:00]
mircea_popescu: rearprop ?! [15:01]
mircea_popescu: but but... why ?! [15:01]
trinque: all I'm pointing to is the c&c milling + carbon fiber process he's using, not the design of the plane [15:01]
asciilifeform: the wings were 'easy' part of airplane even prior to cnc & fiber. [15:02]
mircea_popescu: eh, i don't imagine anyone but alf could seriously contemplate the "fabrication difficulties". gimme a break, i can and have bought machining tools that'd have been worth "half the empire" in 1935 for a pittance. they make complex shaped metal sheets, and are cheap as fuck [15:02]
mircea_popescu: which is why cars stopped looking like 1970s sometime in 1980s. [15:02]
asciilifeform: ( ww2 japan stood on its legs for 2yr past expiration date on wooden plane wings ) [15:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, because i am the only one here who actually made physical objects in qty, lol [15:03]
asciilifeform: hence 'only alf seriously could contemplate manufacturing difficulty' [15:03]
asciilifeform: to errybody else -- yes, seems so easy, why would complain [15:03]
trinque: rednecks rebuild junkyard engines all the livelong day, if we're seriously imagining that suddenly we're back to grand soviet ideas and only buran makes toilets, space ships, dildos [15:05]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no you're not dood, wtf. [15:05]
asciilifeform: trinque: side q -- does the linked d00d ever explain how he gets the 'audi v6' engine to avoid icing, and to breathe air at altitude ? [15:06]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes i'm aware that you had b00kz printed [15:06]
mircea_popescu: by niot going at altitude heh. rearprop. [15:06]
asciilifeform: ha possibly [15:06]
asciilifeform: ( why not make chopper, then. could even work. ) [15:06]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, nevermind books printed. i had interests in ~all sorts~ of manufacturers aite ? [15:06]
mircea_popescu: from building to laminate production. [15:06]
trinque: they're claiming 25k ft max altitude, as per specs page [15:06]
asciilifeform: 'have interests' != select-materials-and-design-from-0 [15:07]
trinque: who knows, pretty detailed videos the guy's posting [15:07]
asciilifeform: but if mircea_popescu says he did -- i'll believe him [15:07]
mircea_popescu: but also != "has no fucking clue what's going on" [15:07]
mircea_popescu: has interest ~means "can not be kept out of any space for any reason". [15:07]
asciilifeform: i did not say 'has no clue'. but observe, 'compains re manufacture difficulty' does happen in proportion to actual involvement with own hands. [15:07]
asciilifeform: try and see with others. [15:07]
mircea_popescu: from managerial experience this is very much not a factual point. [15:08]
mircea_popescu: complaints universally happen in proportion to a certain mental structure. [15:08]
asciilifeform: rrright because when asciilifeform's fab house sent back proto-FG repeatedly with poor reflow and dud analogue board, asciilifeform complains 'from certain mental structure' and not because imbeciles all the way down like turtles on elephants. [15:09]
mircea_popescu: the cognitive articulation of the complaint is thus : 1. i understand deeply the trees of implications of a few simple rules (ref ) 2. i apprehend a novel object and create a mental model for it 3. i discover perceptible reality does not play well with the product of 2 4. i complain. [15:10]
asciilifeform: but yes if FG had been instead commissioned by mircea_popescu in his capacity as vp of mitsubishi, he would never see this . at least not with own eyes, it would show up as factor . [15:10]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 20:01 asciilifeform: observe, the problem dun exist if you already have your own pyongyang and can happily put a megawatt station there and invite whoever objects, to pound sand up his arse [15:10]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, specifically, "i expected something else". "but why did you expect ?" "What do you want me to do, sit ?!". [15:11]
mircea_popescu: this isn't a judgement of value. it's just a description aite ? [15:11]
asciilifeform: fair'nuff [15:11]
mircea_popescu: and mircea_popescu only sees this if he asks specifically, because yes, mircea_popescu has friends. so does asciilifeform. everyone only sees some portions. [15:11]
asciilifeform: err, i put wrong link, lesseeee [15:11]
asciilifeform: - factor. [15:12]
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron) [15:12]
mircea_popescu: for instance earlioer -- i was enjoying a bowl of delicious soup made yesterday. kitten slings by, pours herself a bowl too. then she discovers -- a dead beetle in there. it's beetle season, they're crazy. under pemra lights there's an inch thick beetle soil. [15:12]
mircea_popescu: so now i can't eat my soup anymore. "should i not have said anything ?" [15:12]
* asciilifeform has this exact exchange with asciilifeform's pet , regularly [15:13]
mircea_popescu: so there you go. [15:13]
mircea_popescu: this doesn't mean bugless soups are impossible nor does it mean all soups you ever ate are bugless. [15:13]
asciilifeform: aha [15:13]
mircea_popescu: but the statement made, "x -- impossible" is very different from the correct, "x -- will take some doing" [15:14]
* asciilifeform possibly gets. [15:14]
mircea_popescu: and renaming "x -- will take an inordinate amt of doing" as "x -- impossible" is a category error. [15:14]
asciilifeform: trinque: mostly orthogonally to this thread , your linked airplane maker pattern matches the chilean fortress vapour-scamola [15:14]
asciilifeform: auto engine not only not built for the type of load ( and , srsly, what will do , gearbox it to the prop ?! ) , but hasn't the redundancies that even in 1920s flyers correctly insisted on ( e.g. two separate magneto ) [15:15]
mircea_popescu: trinque, i have serious reservations re an item with broken design. it's a little bit like reading ancient greek imaginary descriptions of places "they heard exist", i have trouble digesting. [15:16]
asciilifeform: trinque: your 'cessna' , it has 2 sets of sparks, etc. [15:16]
* asciilifeform waits for 'but this is diesel' [15:17]
asciilifeform: fwiw tupolev ~did~ make a flying diesel. stalin scrapped it, as just-barely-+ev [15:17]
mircea_popescu: bunker oil. [15:17]
asciilifeform: diesel cycle has own problems at altitude. [15:18]
trinque: I proposed the manufacturing process for *drones* [15:18]
asciilifeform: ( tupolev -- solved. supposedly. but still resulted in massively lower power/mass than petrol engine of the period. ) [15:18]
trinque: in response to whether one man could hit many targets himself [15:18]
mircea_popescu: trinque, you mean, electric engines or what's drone mean here ? [15:18]
asciilifeform: trinque: for these, you want motorcycle motor, at most [15:18]
trinque: semidisposable drones can be built in the garage, was the claim [15:19]
asciilifeform: trinque: i was digesting the linked item as the product it offers, first [15:19]
trinque: I said this in the log-line that linked it [15:19]
mircea_popescu: the claim was rather whether ~enough~ drones of ~sufficient~ quality can be built on short enough interval ~by single person~.\ [15:20]
asciilifeform: trinque: in garage in new york -- yes. in garage in costa rica -- harder. in garage in montevideo -- you have to bring suitcase from newyork... [15:20]
mircea_popescu: but yes, evidently they can. this was after all the fucking point of even fabricating fgs / getting isp up etc : we CAN, as a factual matter, operate. [15:20]
mircea_popescu: which means that yes, if tmsr builds a drone assembly line, it will work as designed. [15:21]
mircea_popescu: and operator will do what operator does and there you go. [15:21]
mircea_popescu: unlike, say, freenode >D [15:21]
asciilifeform: lol [15:21]
asciilifeform: incidentally asciilifeform was going through notebooks and found a theoretical nugget that iirc hasn't been posted. 1w of shortwave, using the error code discussed in prev thread, can propagate trans-continentally ( i.e. easily new york to montevideo ) . and can easily come out of unattended ( solar, thermal-charged ) box , at ~day intervals, hanging from tree in woods, illicitly glued into wall at tower construction site, etc [15:23]
mircea_popescu: that's the point here. consider 1950s process to make fighter jet. "iron ore is in ground -- must be taken to conveyor belt by hand because no sewing machine sophisticated enough to do this yet" then conveyor belted all the way to furnace, but "has to be poured by hand because no machine" then "has to be polished by hand because no machine". and so on. [15:23]
mircea_popescu: MOST of these "need 5000 miners and 3000 forgers and 120 assemblers" etc are gone now. [15:24]
asciilifeform: -NickServ- Account asciilifeform dropped, forcing logout <<< ? [15:24]
trinque: are the dashes a fake account? [15:24]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they're notoriously bad at erorr messages. [15:24]
asciilifeform: either that, or goodnight fleanode ? [15:24]
mircea_popescu: trinque, dashes are a weird sort of pm. [15:24]
asciilifeform: errybody got it, or just asciilifeform ? [15:24]
mircea_popescu: just you. [15:25]
asciilifeform: lol [15:25]
trinque: looks like I got a few notices about them herping with NickServ [15:25]
* mircea_popescu shall bbs. [15:25]
trinque: mquin (~mike@freenode/staff/mquin): :[Global Notice] Seems that was premature. There are ongoing issues with services that are being looked into - please bear with us << asciilifeform shaping fleanode policy now too! [15:26]
shinohai: lolz [15:26]
asciilifeform: we can leave fleanode to the worms and flies , and jump into pizzarro + mircea_popescu's box + wherever else , within a day of mircea_popescu giving signal. [15:28]
mircea_popescu: i thought you were complaining about having too much work. now not enough ? [15:28]
asciilifeform: it's a halfhr job. [15:29]
mircea_popescu: puhleaze. [15:29]
mod6: In other we-totally-know-what-we're-doing-news: [15:33]
trinque: ahaha [15:34]
shinohai: <<< lol mod6, see also for today's lulz [15:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 19:33 mod6: In other we-totally-know-what-we're-doing-news: [15:40]
asciilifeform: shinohai: [15:41]
asciilifeform: shinohai: if yer gonna do the 'i have own parallel qntra' thing nao, at least try to 'scoop' the events ~before~ [15:41]
shinohai: ahahaha did not see [15:42]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell mod6 i get eggog '#trilema-mod6 (Channel is invite only)' [15:42]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [15:42]
shinohai: blog is for personal tidbits, in no way meant to parallel qntra [15:42]
mircea_popescu: o look, all the noobs! [15:44]
shinohai: anywho, appears air force has graduated from bath salts to more grown-up hallucinogenics [15:45]
mircea_popescu: "After investigators closed in, one airman deserted to Mexico." << heh [15:45]
asciilifeform: lol re 'February 2016 photo, members of the 790th Missile Security Forces Squadron demonstrate their training for recapturing a Minuteman missile silo after being taken over by an intruder/attacker' [15:48]
asciilifeform: because 'intruder/attacker' will do something other than drop a frag in the shaft and leave. [15:48]
asciilifeform: ( thermite-welding the hatch closed also worx wonders, asciilifeform's father as a grunt in su was trained for, among others, this party trick ) [15:49]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you don't understand. the principal wank of ustarded princess is that ~someonew wants her useless snatch~. [15:50]
mircea_popescu: much like byzantines imagined mongols come over to steal the "true cross" because it's so fucking valuable in their eyes. because how couldn't it be. and so on. [15:50]
asciilifeform: the land-based rockets are a joke within a joke, even usg assigns the saddest sacks of sads, explicitly, to the detail [15:50]
mircea_popescu: "nobody cares" might be the hardest thing to grok. [15:52]
asciilifeform: phunphakt, unlike ye olde su, usg does not station permanent guards around the land launchers only chain link fence with alarm there's 1 set of guards per N tubes and they gotta drive to it when bell rings. [15:53]
asciilifeform: claim is that they're 8min drive away, iirc. ( what happens if >1 tube rings alarm? stop asking, terrorist ) [15:54]
mircea_popescu: do they test the grunts and only admit those who take up the girls for more than 8 mins at a time ? [15:55]
asciilifeform: i have nfi. they're supposed to have a few choppers, apc's, etc. on top of the usual trucks. [15:57]
asciilifeform: << subj has www even. [15:59]
asciilifeform: containing, i shit thee not, a twatter feed, even, with words '“The public was never in danger and the safety and security of the Minuteman system was never in doubt,” said Col. Matthew Dillow, 90th Missile Wing vice commander.' [15:59]
asciilifeform: this ~not~ in re the lsd. but apparently some other lulz, , where burglar alarm went off. [16:00]
asciilifeform: 'Senior leaders meet with industry to discuss utilizing artificial intelligence and quantum science throughout the Air Force' [16:02]
asciilifeform: gold. [16:02]
asciilifeform: ( , for dedicated entomologists. ) [16:02]
asciilifeform: !#s fedex wrench [16:05]
a111: 0 results for "fedex wrench", [16:05]
asciilifeform: hmm [16:05]
asciilifeform: forfuckssake this WAS in the log. [16:06]
asciilifeform: << was in here. [16:07]
a111: Logged on 2014-11-14 04:48 asciilifeform: ( ) [16:07]
asciilifeform: '“They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country, one official familiar with the contents of the reports said Thursday. No one had checked in years “to see if new tools were being made,” the official said. This was one of many maintenance problems that had “been around so long that no one reported them anymore.”' [16:07]
asciilifeform: there was another scandal where it was found that latrines clogged , never fixed, and the grunts shat right off the maintenance gangway onto the rocket. but i can't be arsed to dig for it. [16:08]
mircea_popescu: "today you need to shit, tomorrow you will betray the fatherland" [16:46]
mircea_popescu: who could have predicted people don't stop shitting just because "the people" is unprepared to handle it. [16:47]
deedbot: << Ossasepia - A Tiny Stab at a Little Pricing Problem [17:57]
lobbes: !Qlater tell shinohai why no comments allowed on yer blog? [19:59]
lobbesbot: lobbes: The operation succeeded. [19:59]
mod6: baby, i've got a fever. [21:07]
lobbesbot: mod6: Sent 5 hours and 24 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i get eggog '#trilema-mod6 (Channel is invite only)' [21:07]
mod6: and the only cure is MOAR COWBELL [21:07]
asciilifeform: in other entomo-horrors, << for all i ever said in defense of this d00d -- will have to take it back he's gone full tard [22:09]
asciilifeform: !#s locklin [22:09]
a111: 69 results for "locklin", [22:09]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, sadly in some fields there's only enumerable stable states, once not-in-1, then-in-other becomes unavoidable. [22:11]
asciilifeform: he ~could~ have gone to build toyota engines !1 [22:12]
mircea_popescu: anyway, seems to me the piece is pure wank, "here's things i say about women i supposedly fucked in the hope anyone reading thinks i ever get laid". [22:12]
mircea_popescu: dude suffered for a while from this "i don't wanna X!!!" syndrome, as if anyone was in any danger of asking anything like it. "i don't wanna go to the prom!!!" "fatty... who's asking you to ?!" [22:12]
asciilifeform: i was not able to extract sense from it, reads like pure spamola [22:12]
mircea_popescu: i just skimmed, saw "facebook is syphilis". [22:13]
asciilifeform: bonus: the item he linked as dayjob, is ~indistinguishable from dogecoin [22:13]
asciilifeform: ( crackpot browser with micropay-somethingorother built in ) [22:14]
asciilifeform: bonuslulz : 'I’d posit that any blockchain type who can’t find productive employment on socially useful projects or isn’t in danger of financial independence either doesn’t feel like working, doesn’t care about money or doesn’t actually know anything about blockchain. In the former cases you can’t recruit them, and in the latter case, you really shouldn’t.' [22:14]
asciilifeform: 'blockchain type' didjaknow [22:15]
mircea_popescu: anyway, lulzy that his links are rather than etcetera, even though only some of the authors are experts in the field but then again ever since i knew him it was obvious he prefers the johny come [22:15]
mircea_popescu: lately clueless dweebs to the original works. [22:15]
mircea_popescu: anyways, whatever. who cares about yet another "52 M Dom" fetlife profile ? he never was more than that. [22:16]
asciilifeform: veerry long time ago he had pieces re scams, usg grantolade lulz, etc. [22:16]
asciilifeform: seemed like clever honest d00d. [22:17]
asciilifeform: i have him filed in my head as a victim of the 'goldbug disease' (i.e. pissed that btc stole 'their' lightning, in idjit tilt and consorting with enemy ever since ) [22:19]
mircea_popescu: "sadly, in some fields there's only enumerable stable states, once not-in-1, then-in-other becomes unavoidable." there's no such thing as clever honest man-alone. [22:19]
asciilifeform: not detectably, at any rate [22:21]
* asciilifeform allows for theoretical possibility of honest folx writing 'into desks' [22:22]
mircea_popescu: << has an answer meanwhile. "has learned ~something~, is now preoccupied with traffic and dumb shit like that". [22:23]
a111: Logged on 2013-04-16 16:41 mircea_popescu: i wonder if he learns by it. [22:23]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, how are they to ~stay~ in the state ? see, that's the thing, "free floating hydrogen" as a theoretical possibility. sure, why not. "free floating hydrogen as a STABLE STATE"... well... no such theoretical possibility. it can't be a stable state for very clear reasons. [22:24]
mircea_popescu: in vitro, purified virus is essentially a large molecule, as inert as salt. in vivo... what do you mean purified, and what do you mean inert. [22:25]
mircea_popescu: either it's in the process of killing the host or else in the process of getting pissed out there's no third. [22:25]
asciilifeform: the h can float for a while it isn't as if intelligent heathen will find mircea_popescu by reading arsebook/nyt/whichever volkischer beobachter [22:26]
mircea_popescu: certainly. [23:12]
mircea_popescu: then again, unlike the various jew outlets, mircea_popescu actually dominates the portions of the empire where the empire tries or is forced to interact with reality [23:12]
mircea_popescu: eg, mocky found this place because ~searched~, on hitler's own "artificially intelligent" zek-bubbler. [23:13]
asciilifeform: oh hah interesting [23:13]
mircea_popescu: because the portions where the bubbler is ran by algorithm, mircea_popescu owns. [23:13]
mircea_popescu: and there's a necessary portion that has to always run that way (also per goedel). [23:13]
mircea_popescu: and so on. [23:13]
mircea_popescu: the problem of has a very ready converse, as i'm sure you realised. [23:15]
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: if and only if everyone's in chains, then and then only can you be entirely sure nobody's linked two z80 chips together and cycling "alf is a pooperhead" back and forth between them. [23:15]
* asciilifeform late evening, listening to elderly ukrs derp on shortwave re horror of their neet chillunz derping on ipnojes where to read re antennae design putin. [23:16]
mircea_popescu: (re hydrogen, for the young'uns : the only stable state in material system of universe is black hole. which is why black hole is even important theoretically -- universe having stable state means it won't last) [23:17]
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : most large black holes have average densities lower than water. anyone care to explain why, as a 5th grade geometry olympiad problem ? [23:28]
Mocky: my guess is due to large volume of event horizon [23:32]
mircea_popescu: this is not acceptable olympiad solution format. [23:33]
mircea_popescu: "volume is third power proportion of radius [schwarzschild] radius is first power proportion of mass therefore mass divided by volume is 2nd power inverse proportion of mass" [23:34]
Mocky: is that like jeapardy format, "what is 4/3 pi r^3?" [23:34]
Mocky: but wait a minute, your answer doesnt explain why large black holes have average densities lower than water [23:39]
mircea_popescu: why not ? if density is f(1/m^2) you can pick a m large enough for any arbitrary low density you wish. [23:41]
Mocky: ah I see it [23:42]
Mocky: what is bubbler in zek-bubbler? [23:44]
mircea_popescu: (in some models there's an upper bound on black hole size about 10^40 or so, but w/e, let's not get THAT technical) [23:44]
mircea_popescu: Mocky, the general purpose of google / the rest of the imperial attempts at colonizing the web revolve around the exact process, except built out of "your interests" rather than plastic. [23:45]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 14:30 mircea_popescu: build vacupack units, keep them fed with biomaterial (plastic, schmucks), dump the results at sea. a 100tdw ship should be able to carry 1mn of the shitheads at a time. [23:45]
Mocky: I've noticed lately that google has some results that it damn well doesn't want to give me... all the results say "missing search term" for what ever I searched for, even when I put a + infront. but it *has* my results and if i repeat the search term 3 or for times in the query eventually relents and shows me [23:49]
danielpbarron: don't black holes emit radiation? and does that make them not stable? [23:51]
Mocky: like the search term was just a mild suggestion, will show if feels like it, or better yet ad from sponsor [23:51]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, only when eating. [23:58]
mircea_popescu: Mocky, you realise, everyone's model revolves around wrapping zeks. it's just that the democrats are (mostly, unexamiedly) partialists while we're absolutists. [23:58]
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