Forum logs for 20 Dec 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mircea_popescu: !!up ser [00:05]
deedbot: ser voiced for 30 minutes. [00:05]
ser: This is cool [00:06]
mircea_popescu: twas on qntra earlier [00:06]
ser: Sorry o missed it :) [00:06]
ser: Ether's a real definition of crap [00:07]
mircea_popescu: apparently. [00:08]
ser: But he made a fortune [00:08]
ser: Sarlatan of bits [00:08]
mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if he made much more than living expenses. [00:14]
ser: I'm sure he's some ether [00:15]
ser: [00:15]
ser: Life style category :) :) [00:18]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> twas on qntra earlier << Nah, shinohai dropped link and loled but no submission was found yet [01:27]
BingoBoingo: And so a log laugh [01:28]
BingoBoingo: !!up ser [01:29]
deedbot: ser voiced for 30 minutes. [01:29]
ben_vulpes: << 'sekuridee measures have been instigated!' oh good thanks exactly what i want, a riot in the dc [01:41]
ben_vulpes: also holy shit what lolz the meatwot doth provide: [01:42]
ben_vulpes: "we just can't handle the notion of a space where some people's suckitude is actually a barrier to their self-identification as 'a part of a thing'" [01:43]
ben_vulpes: not that STEM even is salvageable from the imperial ruins, riddled with nsa stoolies like koch, overfitters like mann and the entirety of 'social sciences' [01:45]
ben_vulpes: in which vein: [01:45]
ben_vulpes: crime 1: n = 43 (i am /so/ impressed) [01:46]
ben_vulpes: crime 2: isn't this actually evidence that poor hispanics drug their kids more than anything else? [01:46]
ben_vulpes: (potential) crime 3: 'study' appears to entirely omit 'control group' [01:47]
ben_vulpes: which puts anyone involved with Nature specifically and US 'STEM' in general in line for the noose [01:47]
ben_vulpes: masquerading as science, good grief. [01:48]
ben_vulpes: << note that i use the wrong command `getmempool' (line 8587), and that my rpc command of `getmemorypool' doesn't show up at all in the log, but some thirty seconds after the bogus `getmempool' the blackhole symptoms kick in [01:53]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 22:55 asciilifeform: post log? [01:53]
deedbot: << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Intolerance to modernity. [02:11]
trinque: << made it halfway through contravex before switching to watching these [06:43]
trinque: << when Houston does it, we take out 3 lanes [06:48]
trinque: incidentally pete_dushenski, my brother was having the same sort of reaction. in his case, it was tetracycline for acne (you know, instead of being unamerican and laying off the fast food) having nuked his gut flora. [07:01]
trinque: GOTTA CLEAN THE TAINT [07:04]
mircea_popescu: btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ? [08:18]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes seems trivial to separate stem from social "sciences", women's "studies" etc. plenty of avenues available, too, like "deny all female access" or "no science without scientific method" or so forth. [08:27]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is that paste on your binary star ? [08:32]
davout: if someone is interdasted in buying the balance of 13UUaGK8ZDLxjY7RYu2bKEabqjww2KDyxD by wiring EUR to Bram Molenaar's ICCF lemme know [08:34]
mircea_popescu: "You like vim? Donate to Bram Molenaar in BTC and help kids in Uganda" da fuck is this then [08:36]
jurov: davout: i can help. you can't wire eur easily anymore? [08:39]
davout: mircea_popescu: what about it? [08:39]
davout: jurov: the less i use my euro stuff the better :D [08:40]
jurov: davout: on popescuplanet, children are beaten and raped, not being sent money, this is new for you? [08:40]
mircea_popescu: davout meanwhile intel provided me with [08:40]
mircea_popescu: jurov dude may i just not know everything to the level of l0 cache here for a minute! [08:41]
davout: mircea_popescu: takes ages to load, i'm 33 and what is this [08:41]
mircea_popescu: some tardstalk thread where you were trying to support the google / ex-vim's guy charity. [08:42]
mircea_popescu: back in 2013 or such [08:42]
davout: yeah that's me! i recognize that avatar's smug smile [08:43]
jurov: davout: pm [08:43]
mircea_popescu: i thought it was some gypsy who lost a finger through the unlikely avenue of filling a caravan full of papier-mache flowers and then using gasoline for lube when fucking his 16yo wife. [08:43]
davout: the goal was "let's have the dude put a BTC address on vim's splash screen directly", which obviously went nowhere [08:43]
davout: mircea_popescu: could match me too [08:44]
davout: except for the fingers i guess [08:44]
mircea_popescu: myeah. if you absolutely want comment i'd point out that wtf "charity", the guy on the ground in uganda isn't even in the wot and wtf arrogant google developers shouldn't be entertained, but really there's no problem with trying and whatever. [08:45]
mircea_popescu: it's funny how the actually useful stuff, such as "put the fucking bitcoin address on google's homepage already, you dork!" somehow "accidentally" never fucking happens. [08:45]
davout: yeah [08:46]
davout: precisely why i wouldn't do it again [08:46]
mircea_popescu: i'm rather independently VERY soured on "donation" to the idiot parade. [08:47]
mircea_popescu: other than the openbsd turpitude you may recall the blender idiocy etc. [08:47]
davout: i remember the openbsd thing but not the blender one [08:48]
mircea_popescu: i suppose it isn't to be a surprise that in a world where the doctor expects you to pay him for him to do what ~he~ feels and the lawyer is strictly shocked that his position as counsel is STRICTLY to do all the legwork you don't feel like doing and absolutely not to do any of the cool management stuff, cuz you're paying and you're gonna be eating that - the charity dudes similarly expect nsa oodlebunches of moneyz [08:48]
mircea_popescu: << whole discussion. [08:50]
a111: Logged on 2015-06-24 21:05 mircea_popescu: punkman because a) when i first asked, their idea was "buy a mug" b) the link i finally fished out did not include any reference either i or fluffypony found (see it in logs) - they have A DIFFERENT unlinked page for this purpose [08:50]
davout: ty [08:50]
mircea_popescu: tldr : me uses blender for eulora, originally wanted to work with the blender people, and as a "first gesture" sorta thing tried to make a donation. blender people turned out even more batshit insane than anyone could have imagined, which resulted in smg deciding to fork blender and not support their idiotic foundation [08:51]
mircea_popescu: this a few months before they decided to only support python 3, showing the soundness of that strategic decision. [08:51]
mircea_popescu: this exactly mirrors me using planeshift code for eulora, did token gesture towards planeshift people, they be EXACTLY as idiotic as blender people in exactly the same way, so as a result /me is having the code refactored and will not work with them [08:52]
mircea_popescu: and in general this exactly mirrors everything - we tried to work with gpg turns out gpg doesn't want to work, not WITH anyone, it actually does not want to work, at all. ditto for the ssh. ditto for everyone and everything. [08:53]
mircea_popescu: so technically jurov is right : i'll burn down this uganda and make a new one, fuck 'em. this pretense of independent existence everyone keeps trying to put up is sickening to me. [08:53]
mircea_popescu: oh yes - chased the freenode idiots for year + back in 2012/2013 trying to give them servers. they - EXACTLY LIKE THESE OTHER IDIOTS - to the fucking t, never got the servers. then a few months later were "suspiociously hacked" and "will publish report" then neverp ublished any report and then went full nsa, which is where we're now. [08:54]
mircea_popescu: in short, it's not that the stupid whore gets fucked by this bad smelly bully all the time. it's that they're married, and she regularly chooses him. and they'll have to burn together, there's no rescuing to be done in this film. [08:55]
davout: that's pretty clear. [08:56]
mircea_popescu: that said, /me wishes teh very best to the actual ugandan children. oppressed as they find themselves under hermetically sealing, thick and numerous layers of dedicatedly-imbecile adults, it'd be a wonder if anything comes of them. but - all the better for all those who do make it in such conditions. [08:57]
mircea_popescu: and in perhaps unrelated lulz : last year, the romanian supreme court struck down the "because the company filed a criminal complaing against the employee" cause for terminating employment. yeah, you read that right. the reason given was that due to social importance blabla, employment ~must be protected from arbitrary decisions~. [09:15]
mircea_popescu: which is the whole fucking thing : these people do not want to exist. [09:15]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> btw mod6 ben_vulpes trinque re the whole db/fs etc discussion, anyone recall the symlinks method / proposed tests ? << yah, im trying to dig this up now actually. [11:28]
mod6: meanwhile, i stumbled across this SoBA that references the tabling of the checkpoints patch: [11:28]
mircea_popescu: aha [11:29]
deedbot: << Trilema - What lasts forever ? [11:32]
mod6: i think i found it. [11:39]
mod6: !%p trb 33 [11:39]
tb0t: Project: trb, ID: 33, Type: F, Subject: Possible DB Replacement with UNIX Filesystem, Antecedents: , Notes: [11:39]
mod6: << I believe it starts here [11:39]
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 02:04 mircea_popescu: happy bday mod6 [11:39]
mircea_popescu: that's it mod6 [11:41]
mircea_popescu: << in other lulz, krugman calling out marc andreessen & friends for being frauds and failures. [12:30]
asciilifeform: 'The raw power of computers has advanced at a stunning speed, but has this advance translated into a comparable improvement in their usefulness? Word processing, to take the most obvious example, hasn't fundamentally improved since the late '80s. And in the view of many people I know, WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS was actually better for their purposes than any of the bloatware that has followed.' [12:33]
mircea_popescu: ye know ? [12:33]
asciilifeform: aha. [12:33]
mircea_popescu: apparently this is obvious even to the pope of usgistan [12:33]
asciilifeform: popes are, on some level, people also, theoretically. [12:33]
mircea_popescu: or in other words, the stupid gun is directional. [12:33]
asciilifeform: catch'em off the clock -- they'll talk. [12:33]
asciilifeform: aha. [12:33]
mod6: funny [12:38]
mircea_popescu: incidentally - nothing is said about how marc andreesseen had to be rescue-married into old wealth to maintain the pretense of relevancy cca 2006 nor how zuckerberg's ~only noteworthy initiative (free basics, trying to turn the third world web into a sort of apple store) utterly failed, rejected EVEN BY INDIA [12:39]
mircea_popescu: or in general, by the piles and piles and piles of failures of this utterly failed generation. [12:40]
mircea_popescu: anyway, selected butthurt from a flury of whining from back in 2014 when icahn told the fatso a few things : [12:43]
asciilifeform: failed generation, or ran out of corpse to eat..? [12:48]
mircea_popescu: it ~never had a corpse to eat, it sucked its own dick for as long as that lasted. [12:48]
mircea_popescu: that's what makes it a failed generation, after all. [12:49]
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski the latest bit is easily your best piece yet. people generaly hated because yes, throughout the lenghty process you sounded ~like every other jew boy reading the torah for bar mitzvah, ie, ridiculous. but insistence pays off, and now i dun have to groan when reading your stuff, which is a welcome change indeed. [12:51]
BingoBoingo: Aha, pete_dushenski you now write like a genitle! [12:57]
pete_dushenski: aww shucks [13:04]
* mircea_popescu also stumbled on recent comment section reading it, apparently there's a whole debate etc. [13:06]
pete_dushenski: if you mean the latest mpex debate as referenced in 'what lasts forever', ya the leclerc (pankkake?) feller and i had a little back-n-forth [13:10]
mircea_popescu: ya [13:10]
mircea_popescu: eh get out of there, it's prolly marc andreesseen being all typically-fatso. [13:11]
* asciilifeform pictures him resembling baron harkonen in david lynch's film of 'dune' [13:11]
pete_dushenski: heh sure why not. but i love when old blog posts still stir the pot. it's even more satisfying than when the hot-off-the-presses sheets light some pubes on fire. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski top 3 on trilema this month consists of something from 2012 and something from 2010 + the internet census. so... yeah. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: “unpracticed in liberty, unschooled in self control, never sobered by the discipline of self support, never established in any habit of prudence… insolent and aggressive, sick of work, [and] covetous of pleasure.” << heh. [13:13]
pete_dushenski: trinque: that houston truck looks like it was headed either to or from a gulf refinery. pretty sweet assplosion. and ya, gotta ditch the ff! [13:13]
mircea_popescu: applies to the nigger of today precisely, at that. [13:13]
pete_dushenski: woodrow wilson : a man ahead of his time. [13:14]
pete_dushenski: accordingly, exactly like shakespeare, there are 'movements' to remove wilson from names of ivy league buildings. [13:15]
pete_dushenski: iirc a mural of him was covered up but name of building stayed. [13:15]
mircea_popescu: heh [13:15]
mircea_popescu: what use have pigs for cigars. [13:15]
pete_dushenski: nostril plugs i imagine [13:16]
pete_dushenski: like clarkson's tampons (a reference only ben_vulpes make catch) [13:16]
pete_dushenski: may* [13:16]
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: internet census is right up there eh ? the irony of that one little study making such a dent in a world awash in 'data' and 'research' where n=43 is otherwise sufficient grounds for public policy decisions... never fails to amus. [13:21]
pete_dushenski: e [13:21]
mircea_popescu: ~everyone said the same thing "holy shit this is detailed". [13:21]
mircea_popescu: it's not even detailed but at least it's not idiocy on the level of nature mag science mag etc. [13:22]
pete_dushenski: compare and contrast the time inputs too : 4 years x 4 researchers = 12 page report (vs) .0003 years x 2 researchers = 12 page report. [13:24]
pete_dushenski: that's self-directed republican efficiency for you [13:25]
pete_dushenski: !~calc (0.0003*2)/(4*4)*100 [13:26]
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: (0.0003*2)/(4*4)*100 = 0.00375 [13:26]
pete_dushenski: 0.004% of the time input for the same ~quantity~ of output, nevermind the clearly superior quality, usefulness, applicability to the real world. [13:27]
ben_vulpes: << 'coracle', my battlefield node [13:33]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 13:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is that paste on your binary star ? [13:33]
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski speaking of which - i didn't use "spreadsheets" like the fucking usg tards ( ) or for that matter wordperfect 5.1 nor did i have any use for a pdf maker. the whole article came out of an awk and a sort [13:53]
mircea_popescu: at which juncture it should probably be reminded to the general public that the pmarca schmuck is ... known, let's say, for one of the first ~web browsers~. ie, the shit soup to end all shit soups, exactly like "spreadsheets" and whatnot except to the power of nine thousand. [13:54]
mircea_popescu: there isn't any space, or any need, or anything else for these fucktards today anymore than there was in 1996 or in 1976. they know it today like they knew it then, and they're lying about it (to themselves, mostly) then as now because they know that's exactly all they can do. who's gonna hire pmarca ? to do what ? who has a job for zuck ? [13:55]
mircea_popescu: etc. [13:55]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so listen, the important thing here is, have you managed to reproduce the "blackhole" in an isolated system ? [13:56]
ben_vulpes: nope [14:03]
ben_vulpes: is there intuition about whether blackholes are attacks or retarded clients? [14:04]
mircea_popescu: we have no definitive answer on this. [14:04]
ben_vulpes: didnt think so [14:05]
mircea_popescu: but in general there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy. for the attack to exist, the client has to be "retarded". [14:05]
ben_vulpes: i doubt itll show up on solipnet [14:05]
ben_vulpes: sure, trb shoulda been aborted [14:05]
mircea_popescu: wait wut [14:05]
ben_vulpes: but i mean blackholing as artifact of some other poorly written client, instead of script opening sockets to trb nodes [14:06]
mircea_popescu: yeah. we r not know. [14:07]
ben_vulpes: mhm [14:08]
mircea_popescu: anyway, i've been rereading period warnings about myself, it's been rather pleasant. [14:10]
asciilifeform: << i was able to reproduce a very similar effect. simply throw blocks at a node that don't fail verification until the very end. [14:13]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 19:04 mircea_popescu: we have no definitive answer on this. [14:13]
asciilifeform: (it is idiotically serial and the entire thing locks, won't respond to rpc commands, etc) [14:14]
mircea_popescu: yes but this doesn't answer if the idiocy is naturally ocurring so much [14:14]
asciilifeform: it does not. [14:15]
asciilifeform: wireshark, and a good deal of patience, would answer it. [14:15]
mircea_popescu: anyway. like you said, seems pretty credible parallelizing will fix this./ [14:15]
asciilifeform: the only boojum is that parallelizing would require removing the locks. [14:16]
asciilifeform: which potentially changes the semantics of EVERYTHING [14:16]
mircea_popescu: yes. [14:16]
asciilifeform: i.e. is the very worst kind of mutilation of 'grandfather's pistol' conceivable. [14:16]
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, bitcoin 2.0 has no room for this serial nonsense. [14:16]
mircea_popescu: it's just bad design. [14:16]
asciilifeform: it is atrocious design, as is the whole thing. [14:17]
asciilifeform: and very much glued on with broken glass. [14:17]
mircea_popescu: to think the dork actually claimed he is "slightly more productive on linux than windows". satoshi never fucking as much as saw a posix compliant box. [14:17]
ben_vulpes: might be interesting to patch trb to dump relevant connection's self-identification string [14:22]
ben_vulpes: when in blackhole mode [14:22]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it'd have to be continuously dumped [14:22]
asciilifeform: recall, whole thing deadlocks, won't accept any interactive command at all. [14:23]
mod6: what is meant by 'blackhole mode' ? [14:23]
asciilifeform: !#s blackhole [14:24]
a111: 53 results for "blackhole", [14:24]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i mean when the node is running through 'accepted connection' 'socket no message in first 60 seconds' [14:24]
asciilifeform: mod6: [14:24]
a111: Logged on 2015-11-19 20:29 asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0 [14:24]
mod6: im not sure that is helpful... are you discussing how the client just seems to have no peers after some period of time? [14:24]
mod6: ah, ok. [14:25]
ben_vulpes: i don't expect to be able to make an rpc call while the node is looping through its list of peers and get 'the right' peer shat out [14:25]
asciilifeform: mod6: trb isn't multithreaded in the, e.g., apache, sense. it services clients round-robin style, and if it gets stuck at any point, this is what you get [14:25]
ben_vulpes: mod6: no, the thing where either a shitty network client or some joker opens sockets and lets them expire, eating 60 seconds of the loop through each peer to service [14:25]
ben_vulpes: during which the node is ~entirely unresponsive [14:26]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not what happens. those get banned quite normally. [14:26]
mod6: ben_vulpes: aha, gotcha. [14:26]
asciilifeform: what happens is that it makes ~your~ node sit retardedly instead of talking into socket at appropriate time. [14:26]
mod6: oh that's not it then asciilifeform? this is helpful, please continue to describe. [14:26]
ben_vulpes: what 'makes' [14:26]
ben_vulpes: and how [14:26]
mircea_popescu: ^ [14:27]
asciilifeform: something that comes down the wire. precisely what, i do not yet know. [14:27]
mircea_popescu: it's not "a joker doses sockets". [14:27]
asciilifeform: aha. [14:27]
ben_vulpes: okok [14:27]
asciilifeform: the necessary experiment is i think quite obvious and i do not need to describe it in detail. [14:27]
asciilifeform: but will anyway, just in case. [14:27]
asciilifeform: first you need a blackhole detector. [14:27]
mircea_popescu: just keeping track of the binary star is already a huge thing. [14:28]
asciilifeform: this will consist of a shell script that makes, e.g., getinfo api request, AND [14:28]
asciilifeform: if it times out ! [14:28]
asciilifeform: then we know. blackholed. [14:28]
asciilifeform: at the same time, tcpdump is running [14:28]
ben_vulpes: (or -- processing block) [14:28]
asciilifeform: so we get a snapshot of the, say, 20 minutes of tcpdump prior to node entering blackhole state. [14:28]
ben_vulpes: (impossible to differentiate!) [14:28]
asciilifeform: after a few days of this, we have the culprit. [14:28]
mircea_popescu: imo this is a total waste of time we won't have the culprit even if we drink the gigabyte swamp. which we needn't be drinking in any case. [14:29]
asciilifeform: whether it is waste of time, is separate question. [14:29]
asciilifeform: but we would have the culprit, yes. [14:29]
asciilifeform: and it'd be a few megabyte of swamp [14:29]
mircea_popescu: myeah. i have no problem with the baruch spinoza approach, esp when eg, dealing with viri etc. but it's not a universal wrench. [14:29]
asciilifeform: if done as described above. [14:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the suspicion is you'll be seeing too much variance to be able to say much definitively [14:30]
mircea_popescu: this butressed on the observation that satoshi code is large and stupidly wrought. [14:30]
asciilifeform: or conceivably the described bear trap will actually contain a bear at the end of the day. [14:31]
asciilifeform: cannot be ruled out. [14:31]
mircea_popescu: indeed. [14:31]
mircea_popescu: continuing the floundering sv-tech lulz for a moment, there's [14:34]
mircea_popescu: practically speaking, the exact equivalent of "putin did wtc" [14:34]
* asciilifeform looks at his nodes, and discovers that, sure enough, both are blackholed at this very moment. [14:34]
asciilifeform: 'To Read the Full Story, Subscribe or Sign In' << lel [14:36]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is paywalled [14:36]
mircea_popescu: not really missing much. [14:37]
asciilifeform: << this is fresh from zoolag. and very typical. [14:37]
mircea_popescu: whole story is, "fatso is angry at not being as relevant as he thinks he should be" [14:37]
asciilifeform: we get a block (dulap already saw same block it was valid.) which simply takes ages to verify. [14:37]
asciilifeform: while it verifies, the thing sits around being very sad, and ends up losing most of its peers [14:37]
asciilifeform: (they -- elementarily -- time out) [14:38]
mircea_popescu: aha. [14:39]
asciilifeform: what's more, this is a rinse-and-repeat [14:39]
asciilifeform: when it gets NEXT block, which happens more or less immediately after, [14:39]
asciilifeform: when it finally gets a peer going again, [14:39]
asciilifeform: same process repeats. [14:39]
mircea_popescu: the miners are pushing block complexity to the maximum possible because hey, more fees the cost this imposes on the nodes is not to be discussed because hey, fatso thinks he should matter and stuff. [14:39]
asciilifeform: aha. [14:39]
mircea_popescu: at the very least block digestion and peering must be cleaved in trb [14:40]
asciilifeform: plox to elaborate [14:40]
mircea_popescu: the process that talks to peers has ~no business~ knowing anything about the blocks the process which maintains the blockchain, verifies blocks etc has ~no business~ talking to peers. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: mixing these into a single frail monolith is very much satoshism, but we're not supposed to stick to stupid. [14:41]
asciilifeform: this doesn't add up to a working btctron. in order to evaluate a peer, it is necessary to be able to distinguish block from rubbish. [14:42]
asciilifeform: and to do this, you need the entire spittoon. [14:42]
asciilifeform: ditto tx [14:42]
mircea_popescu: nope. blockchain part will get to it when it gets to it, and tell you. until then, peer part builds queues. [14:42]
asciilifeform: you need the entire orchestra to decide whether to accept a tx for relay. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: the fact that you need the blockchain part to tell you what tx are to be relayed does not reduce to, you must make it to listen to all comers. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: business has a secretary and an actual worker fast food has a front office and a back office. there's reasons for things wtf. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: bitcoin has a single office, like a fucking bidonville residence. [14:43]
mod6: !%a trb I "Investigate blackhole" "Investigate what might be occuring with the so-called black-hole, described here:" [14:43]
asciilifeform: queueing is sane but i will point out that from the other side, a node that doesn't answer immediately because it queued, is not distinguishable from one that doesn't answer because it is spinning wheels on block verification. [14:44]
mod6: !%p trb 35 [14:44]
tb0t: Project: trb, ID: 35, Type: I, Subject: Investigate blackhole, Antecedents: , Notes: Investigate what might be occuring with the so-called black-hole, described here: [14:44]
asciilifeform: and either gets dropped by peer. [14:44]
mod6: all set for now. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it answers immediately. let's formalize this. [14:44]
asciilifeform: how can it possibly answer immediately ? [14:44]
mircea_popescu: b.peer receives items from peers and puts them in received-txn and received-blocks both of which are queues. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: b.blockchain picks up items from received-blocks and verifies them, adding to blockchain if necessary picks up items from received-txn, and verifies them, adding to mempool-txn if necessary. [14:45]
mircea_popescu: if queried, b.peer loads mempool-txn as it is and uses that so what if it's stale, fuck you. [14:45]
mircea_popescu: this way b.peer can always answer something ' and b.blockchain can sanely optimize its queue processing. [14:46]
mircea_popescu: rather than "do it now!" [14:46]
asciilifeform: i'll add to this that in trb as we have it, you ONLY need blockchain to verify a potential mempool tx [14:46]
asciilifeform: and never need other mempool tx. [14:46]
mircea_popescu: right. [14:46]
mircea_popescu: anyway. the divorce is required and continuing in the current monolith sheer nonsense. [14:47]
asciilifeform: but yes, mircea_popescu's algo is The Right Thing [14:47]
asciilifeform: if unsure, eat tx, can always drop it on the floor later. [14:47]
mircea_popescu: quite. [14:49]
mircea_popescu: and you know, sanity suddenly flowers everywhere - do you send too much in bytes/s ? b.peer can can your. do you send too much crap ? b.blockchain can tell b.peer it dun wanna hear from you no mo. [14:51]
mircea_popescu: etc. [14:51]
asciilifeform: the one caveat is that this is probably not doable while preserving trb semantics. [14:52]
mircea_popescu: i suspect it can be done by surgery without the two parts ~even knowing~ they're not satoshi-full-bitcoin. [14:52]
mircea_popescu: just reallocate the respective pointers mwahahaha. [14:52]
asciilifeform: well that'd be the definition of 'preserve semantics' [14:52]
mircea_popescu: right. [14:53]
asciilifeform: at one time i ran a barbaric experiment where same box would run ~two separate~ instances of trb [14:54]
asciilifeform: initially idea was that it would be a kind of load balance arrangement, if one were in blackhole state, connections would rout to other. but in the end i did not bother with this, and simply let one hang behind the other, and used the setup simply to observe how 'blackholing' propagates. [14:55]
ben_vulpes: oh blackholing propagates naturally? [14:56]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in so far as it consists of the block processing delay, as described earlier, it does. [14:57]
asciilifeform: unsurprisingly. [14:57]
asciilifeform: (check your own collection of blackhole logs, how many are preceded by a 'received block 0000000....' ) [14:58]
* ben_vulpes may look sometime [14:58]
ben_vulpes: i may also need to adjust my log rotator, 1 gig of bitcoind logs is...not actually that much history. [14:59]
asciilifeform: on my nodes, just about every 'received block...' is followed by a bunch of telltale 'socket closed' from barfing peers [14:59]
asciilifeform: aaaah see i don't rotate. [14:59]
asciilifeform: ~ever. [14:59]
asciilifeform: and yes i end up with multi-GB logs. but they are quite informative. [14:59]
asciilifeform: you can grep your log for 'SetBestChain' also, and likely will find the same thing. [15:01]
asciilifeform: which is, that simply getting a valid block takes your node out of action for 5-15 min ! [15:01]
ben_vulpes: hm [15:01]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you can replicate same effect using 'eatblock' [15:02]
asciilifeform: as described on the ml (and linked again last night) [15:02]
ben_vulpes: all of a sudden i want to collect data on how long trb takes to return from a simple getinfo call, per your above protocol [15:02]
asciilifeform: you will find that it is never less time than it takes to actually verify the block. [15:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, et al : the pill that would be needed to cure the locks retardation once and for all (and enable, e.g., queueing) while preserving semantics, would be to go through each and every function call in trb and determine if it A) Reads state B) Modifies state C) both D) neither [15:06]
asciilifeform: if any (C) is found, it must be sliced apart with a knife until there is no (C) [15:06]
mircea_popescu: just about yes. [15:06]
asciilifeform: afterwards, anything that contains only (A) can be made lockless [15:06]
mircea_popescu: but the place to start is the cleavage above. [15:06]
mircea_popescu: who knows what new wonders we find. [15:06]
asciilifeform: let's take, concretely, ProcessBlock : [15:07]
asciilifeform: which is where a trb node is actually hanging for 10-50% of a given day. [15:07]
asciilifeform: depending on how full are blocks. [15:07]
asciilifeform: it is quite plainly an example of (C) [15:07]
asciilifeform: i will admit, that i many times sat down to do this. [15:08]
asciilifeform: and then realized that the resulting patch WILL be 50,000 lines, and the output will look ~nothing like trb, and gave up. [15:08]
asciilifeform: 'patient is not operable.' [15:09]
asciilifeform: at a certain point, if you attempt the operation, you start to ask 'why is there satoshi crapolade in my bitcoin2.0' rather than 'ooh neato, a repaired trb!' [15:10]
asciilifeform: picture a farm d00d upgrading from horse plow to tractor, who goes to tractor factory to demand that parts of his freshly dead horse be incorporated into the machine. [15:11]
BingoBoingo: Leather seats are a thing! [15:22]
deedbot: << Qntra - Former Flint Emergency Managers Face Felony Charges [15:23]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've ruminated on this as well before [15:29]
ben_vulpes: kinda think that a bitcoin client is journeyman republican project [15:29]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you recall and could you cite a line where you talk about folx using ersatz clients, forking and 'fools'? [15:32]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not immediately [15:35]
ben_vulpes: and i don't recall it well enough to find. alas. [15:36]
ben_vulpes: is anyone aware of a 'muxing' 'dashboard' for staying abreast of several different clients' opinions of network state? [15:38]
ben_vulpes: oh hey whaddayaknow, getmemorypool eventually returned [15:38]
asciilifeform: HOLY FUCK: [16:42]
asciilifeform: File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/pdfminer/", line 123, in get_pages [16:42]
asciilifeform: raise PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed('Text extraction is not allowed: %r' % fp) [16:42]
asciilifeform: pdfminer.pdfdocument.PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed: Text extraction is not allowed: <open file ... some derpitude [16:42]
asciilifeform: this is a thing?! [16:42]
asciilifeform: and of course, inside, we find: [16:42]
asciilifeform: # Check if the document allows text extraction. If not, abort. [16:42]
asciilifeform: if check_extractable and not doc.is_extractable: [16:42]
asciilifeform: raise PDFTextExtractionNotAllowed('Text extraction is not allowed: %r' % fp) [16:42]
asciilifeform: author ~wants~ to be boiled in oil..? [16:43]
trinque: ahaha [16:43]
asciilifeform: not that this isn't a literally half-second snipsnip. [16:43]
asciilifeform: but... [16:43]
trinque: you mayn't remove the fig leaf!1!1!! [16:44]
asciilifeform: anyway, the relevant lulzbit that spawned this, ( ) [16:45]
asciilifeform: ^ 'official certification' of 'trng' of some poker derps, by some purported 'test lab', scrolled through to see what the submitted hardware was, and it... wasn't. it was a list of java src turds and their file hashes! [16:46]
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder, what the euthor of 'pdfminer' was smoking. [16:48]
asciilifeform: *author [16:48]
asciilifeform: why, why. [16:48]
asciilifeform: and where else in the wonderful world of open sores is there more of this same. [16:49]
trinque: seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit. [16:49]
asciilifeform: for some reason the only thing that came immediately to mind is the 'piss_on_patents' flag, or what was it, that you used to have to set on linux box to get mp3 and truetype going [16:50]
phf: asciilifeform: is that one of those mandatory gaming authority certifications? or a "you can trust our gaming servers, we got an EVALUATION, got checksums and everything" [17:03]
asciilifeform: phf: to my -- admittedly untrained -- eye, it looks more like those Guaranteed Seeekooore Website!111 certs that various derps used to display [17:03]
asciilifeform: the ones with the little padlock. [17:04]
phf: yeah, that's what it looks like. i wonder if in your explorations of state of rng you came across any offical GCB evaluation of casino rngs, i don't know if those would even be public or have technical detail... [17:06]
asciilifeform: afaik 0 public. [17:06]
asciilifeform: likewise 'it gave such-and-such statistic' is not very useful from sane people's pov. [17:07]
asciilifeform: gotta have the complete design. [17:07]
asciilifeform: otherwise it can just as easily be a device that puts current unix time + salt through aes [17:07]
asciilifeform: (will score maximal, perfect score, on any statistical test you could possibly want.) [17:08]
asciilifeform: and anyone who knows the salt - owns you. [17:08]
asciilifeform: this is elementary but bears repeating occasionally . [17:08]
asciilifeform: i will also add that tests, for what they're worth, are worth 0 if they are not of YOUR PARTICULAR device which YOU OWN [17:10]
asciilifeform: this also is apparently not obvious to everyone. but -- true. [17:10]
phf: i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys [17:11]
asciilifeform: fwiw (and i may have explained it in the past) FUCKGOATS will work with, e.g., a geiger, or anything else that can supply 1/0 signal [17:11]
asciilifeform: including a morse button [17:11]
asciilifeform: given as it is not physically possible to audit an analogue rng in the same sense as one can audit the digital board (i.e. by putting a TB of random through it, and comparing what comes out other end to the expected), i expect that plenty of folks will choose to build their own analogue unit. [17:15]
phf: that's fair, i think we had a thread, when you first started working on this, with various schemes. "use the optics on your iphone" etc. [17:17]
asciilifeform: there are 10,000,001 possible schemes, it is not some titanic open problem. [17:17]
asciilifeform: the difficulty is in making something that can be distinguished, in a spot check, from aes(unixtime+salt), by skeptic. [17:18]
asciilifeform: also it is strange to suppose that a casino player could take a legitimate interest in the rng of the game machine. it is intrinsically promisetronic, he is stuck taking the house's word for it. [17:19]
asciilifeform: (in the case of 'provably fair', he can be shown the seed for the prng, but there is NO way for the casino to demonstrate that NO ONE ELSE KNEW it. hence -- just as promisetronic, and now on top of it all braindamage of using prng) [17:20]
mircea_popescu: << you are attempting the wrong operation, which is the problem. cut where i toldja not where you feelta. [17:20]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 20:10 asciilifeform: at a certain point, if you attempt the operation, you start to ask 'why is there satoshi crapolade in my bitcoin2.0' rather than 'ooh neato, a repaired trb!' [17:20]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was in re: your described cut. [17:20]
mircea_popescu: no, it wasn't, as i don't actually propose any changes to processblock. it can go wholesale in b.blockchain [17:21]
asciilifeform: looks almost as if it'd be a skin , front end running tcpwise in front of trb node [17:21]
mircea_popescu: almost, yes. [17:21]
asciilifeform: 'trb condom' [17:22]
mircea_popescu: patient is indeed not operable in the sense you mean but medicine is chiefly a pile of paleatives, not "radical bioreengineering technology" [17:22]
mircea_popescu: guess what - if you take your allergies to the doctor he will also not cut into every cell and fix your bad dna [17:22]
mircea_popescu: (yes, all allergies mean one thing - that you're a degenerate fenotype not fit for life. what can you do ? certainly can't go back in time and whack ytour mother to fuck better drunks.) [17:23]
asciilifeform: 'allergen' is broad concept. [17:24]
mircea_popescu: which is my point here. [17:25]
asciilifeform: (take, for instance, urushiol. not per se allergenic! but denatures certain protein in skin such that you are your own allergen.) [17:26]
mircea_popescu: anyway - IF there's ever going to be that "radical bioengineering technology" medicine, it starts exactly in these places. gotta first do the 13yo torah reading work. then can be man. [17:26]
mircea_popescu: make pistols. [17:26]
asciilifeform: whole subj, recall began with asciilifeform's request for a literal 'talmud' to take to bed.. [17:26]
mircea_popescu: indeed :) [17:26]
asciilifeform: btw this is something i've already been doing for ages, bedtime lxr [17:27]
asciilifeform: (jurov's viewer is ~still~ the state of the art) [17:27]
mircea_popescu: last i fell alseep on alain delon. holy shit is that period weird. [17:27]
mircea_popescu: back then, the french were still pretending to be a thing. much in the manner of today's us. [17:27]
phf: ален делон не пьет одеколон. ален делон пьет двойной бурбон. ален делон говорит по-французски [17:28]
asciilifeform: lel [17:28]
mircea_popescu: he did enjoy a period of chuck norris ism in ru did he [17:29]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (take, for instance, urushiol. not per se allergenic! but denatures certain protein in skin such that you are your own allergen.) << But where else could Varnish come from! [17:30]
phf: well french cinema not being entirely corrupted by imperialism was popular in su, so alen delon got the same treatment as other "anekdot" characters. [17:30]
phf: /popular/allowed/ [17:30]
deedbot: << Qntra - Three Times As Many Electors Rejected Clinton Than Trump, Colin Powell Finally Draws Votes [17:32]
phf: fwiw his purple noon is great, i think it even got the trilema treatment? [17:35]
mircea_popescu: (as a public service : /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ nʲˈe pʲjˈɵt ɐdʲɪkɐlˈon/ /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ pʲjˈɵt dvɐjnˈoj bɜrbon/ /alɛ̃dəlɔ̃ ɡəvɐrʲˈit pəfrɐnt͡sˈuskʲɪ/ ) [17:36]
mircea_popescu: phf possibly not. but yes, not ~entirely~ bad, and as an actor certainly better than whatever dorks available today, so he'd still win a "what do we watch" competition. the period though... ah, ah. [17:38]
mircea_popescu: fwiw de funes shows the same tragic character, except he's more of an engineer at heart, a great administrator, a sort of fouquet rather than you know, piaf's legionnaire. [17:39]
mircea_popescu: la zizanie certainly got the trilema treatment. [17:39]
mircea_popescu: aaand i just looted ~half a btc worth of dagsden flags in eulora. mwahaha. [17:44]
mod6: nice [17:44]
phf: i always thought of him as a pretty boy who can hold a certain pose. that's why i think purple noon is great, where he fits perfectly because he looks young, fresh, aloof and arrogant. but his other stuff is forgettable. i think he had some tv show where he played a middle aged detective, where he was great again, by virtue of being the right age [17:46]
mircea_popescu: yeah, he's not a very good actor, but a fine icon. in the vein of brooms that shoot once, a picture of a car can count for a car from the right angle once and a stopped clock still shows accurate time on occasion. [17:48]
mircea_popescu: !!up chatter [17:49]
deedbot: chatter voiced for 30 minutes. [17:49]
mircea_popescu: << their loyalties be misplaced, what. [17:58]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 21:43 asciilifeform: author ~wants~ to be boiled in oil..? [17:58]
mircea_popescu: but yes, imperial idiots actually do "rng verification" of software ~running on unspecified machines~. [17:58]
mircea_popescu: the insanity of this boggles the mind, if the mind can be bothered to stop and think for a minute. [17:59]
phf: mircea_popescu: while you're in that french mode you should watch (or rewatch?) fantômas. there's the three 1960s ones, with de funes. i have no idea if they are any good, because i haven't seen them for a very long time, but i suspect that they are sort of comedic 60s take on james bond. [17:59]
asciilifeform: of software! [17:59]
mircea_popescu: phf i tried recently and couldn't stand it. the cheapo roadshow really irks me. it's almost like watching that dude "commenting", what's his face [17:59]
mircea_popescu: john oliver [18:00]
phf: ahaha [18:00]
mircea_popescu: i just don't go for the whole carny show with the facepaint and the star wars papier mache models. [18:00]
phf: well, sucks. i have fond memories of it, so i'm not even going to try. like i watched a tv show that was popular in ru in mid90s, "quantum leap". i could barely sit through a handful of eposides and only because i was trying to see if it'll get any good.. [18:01]
mircea_popescu: (this, i come to realise, is a major block for my watching ~any video sf. back when the people involved weren't idiots, the machines weren't yet capable.) [18:01]
mircea_popescu: phf but if you're up for some utter wtf, can always try "this must be the place". i have no idea what i saw. [18:02]
phf: hehe, this looks horrible [18:05]
* ben_vulpes mutters westworld again [18:06]
ben_vulpes: lotsa rape and titties [18:06]
trinque: almost plays as a "lets sneak a peak at slavery, but safely" [18:09]
* trinque enjoys [18:09]
trinque: there's a "merits of suffering" notion somewhere in there, too [18:11]
ben_vulpes: mhm [18:11]
mircea_popescu: aite, ima push to list eh. [18:19]
deedbot: << Qntra - Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church Truck Attacker Still At Large [18:19]
asciilifeform: [18:23]
* ben_vulpes waits for "omfg whats wrong with you americans, none of those tits were even on girls" [18:23]
mircea_popescu: wait wat !? [18:26]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: [18:26]
mircea_popescu: << you mean the "blogosphere" prizes from like 1999 ? [18:27]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 22:04 asciilifeform: the ones with the little padlock. [18:27]
asciilifeform: same idea. [18:27]
asciilifeform: but there were (and, not too long ago, i saw -- still are!) 'security'-flavoured talismans. [18:28]
mircea_popescu: << the thing with fuckgoats is that, much like in the case of, say, dildo - more expensive variation doens't usefully exist. [18:28]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 22:11 phf: i'd imagine in sane world they would have something like FUCKGOATS or an expensive variation of (like john walker's hotbits) so can publish schematics all you want. in reality it is probably a prng with a seed under two keys [18:28]
mircea_popescu: it may exist, of course, but it dindu nuttin. [18:29]
asciilifeform: i can picture variations that increase cost (e.g., higher bitrate, and internal battery) but the basic idea cannot be improved, no. [18:29]
mircea_popescu: << quite exactly what that is, huh. [18:30]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 21:49 trinque: seems deeply political. what you've got there is a consent bit. [18:30]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or better shielding, or making it go into a reactor core, or etc. [18:30]
asciilifeform: it is possible to make a platinum-iridium fork. and possibly it will stain less after dishwasher! but is not fundamental improvement on concept of 'fork' [18:32]
mircea_popescu: right. [18:33]
pete_dushenski: "The value of Canada’s natural resource assets stood at $287 billion in 2015, down 73% from 2014, largely due to lower energy prices. […] Timber resources accounted for 55% of the value of all natural resource assets in 2015, followed by minerals (26%) and energy resources (19%)." << in other news, trump's looming war on softwood lumber is going to fucking hurt. and no, it won't be balanced out by [18:39]
pete_dushenski: keystone, at least not at the national level. but then again, whotf cares about the national level ? [18:39]
pete_dushenski: o hey 800 on the stamp [18:43]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 71.71 * 800 / 287 / 10**9 [18:54]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 71.71 * 800 / 287 / 10**9 = 1.9988850174216028E-7 [18:54]
mircea_popescu: tananana. not just 1 millionth, but two! [18:54]
mircea_popescu: !~google canada land area [18:54]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Land Area / Countries of the World - World by Map: <> Geography of Canada - Wikipedia: <> List of Canadian provinces and territories by area - Wikipedia: <> [18:54]
mircea_popescu: helpful beyond belief. [18:54]
pete_dushenski: 9.985 million km² [18:55]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 9.85 * 10**6 * 1.9988850174216028E-7 [18:55]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 9.85 * 10**6 * 1.9988850174216028E-7 = 1.9689017421602788 [18:55]
mircea_popescu: eulora comes to 2sqkm of canada. LOGIC! [18:55]
pete_dushenski: lmao [18:55]
mircea_popescu: shut up it's numbers-based SCIENCE [18:56]
mircea_popescu: do they have science in your country ? how about tedx ? [18:56]
pete_dushenski: so eulora is basically the same as the entire canadian prairies. [18:56]
pete_dushenski: alberta + saskatchewan + manitoba [18:57]
mircea_popescu: wait wut ? [18:57]
mircea_popescu: no, just 2 sqkm, like enough for an american base. [18:57]
pete_dushenski: 2!!!! (/me read 2 MN) [18:57]
mircea_popescu: hey, gotta leave some room for future growth lest the webcommenters win the webattle. [18:57]
pete_dushenski: would be good wotbet / bitbet : when will eulora be larger economically than, say, idaho ? [18:59]
mircea_popescu: world famous nondescript tubers! [19:00]
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i expect once the land/ownership update makes it in, eulora will give a run for their money to a lot of peoples. [19:00]
pete_dushenski: bbl [19:02]
deedbot: << Trilema - The Slut Moth [19:09]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: pls to describe this war on softwood lumber? Does this mean I should build new bookshelves sooner instead of later? [19:19]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [19:20]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 799.35, vol: 4115.82839866 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 784.6, vol: 3918.9061 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 797.33, vol: 7710.19758945 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 809.75408, vol: 1243703.20730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 799.987, vol: 1228.98764791 | Volume-weighted last average: 809.556413514 [19:20]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: And further what sort of lumber do yall even grow up there anyways? [19:21]
deedbot: << Qntra - Missouri State Representative Elect Bruce Franks Robbed At Gunpoint [19:42]
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: 'relieved' [19:44]
BingoBoingo: ty fxd [19:44]
ben_vulpes: also you know who opened the door, what's with the passive voice [19:44]
BingoBoingo: ty fxd 2 [19:45]
ben_vulpes: right on [19:45]
ben_vulpes: now for my next riddle, what solstice gift do you get a woman who already has a baby and doesn't want another yet? [19:46]
BingoBoingo: A pearl necklace! [19:48]
trinque: !~bash 2 [19:48]
jhvh1: Last 2 lines bashed and pending publication [19:48]
mircea_popescu: lmao [23:09]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a black and white cookie. you know, because solstice is like equinox. [23:10]
BingoBoingo: Ah, a Cosby kid! [23:14]
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: we grow pine, fir, cedar, and spruce, most of which come from bc. ontario and quebec grow some hardwoods like oak and maple but these aren't as practical or affordable for general construction so they're exported in smaller volumes relatively speaking. so depends what you want your shelves made out of. pine can work but obv the hardwoods are sturdier if also commensurately spendier. [23:24]
mircea_popescu: cedar ftw. [23:24]
pete_dushenski: worx too [23:25]
mircea_popescu: i knew cedar to make great boats but cedar also makes great beating sticks! [23:25]
pete_dushenski: anyways bb, if you missed trump's campaign rhetoric, he often called nafta 'the world deal ever made ever, like ever ever' and much of that is focused on the softwood imports from canada 'undercutting good white american biznizmen and their upstanding famblies' etc. [23:27]
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: pretty sure the beating stick my old man used was cedar. metal tipped too! [23:27]
pete_dushenski: was some cdn army issue thing. [23:27]
mircea_popescu: eh, maybe if i had boys. bu for girls no metal necessary. [23:27]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's not just canadian wood all sorts of thing [23:28]
pete_dushenski: they do whip-flick nicely [23:28]
pete_dushenski: ...the cedar sticks [23:28]
pete_dushenski: ya [23:28]
pete_dushenski: in other canadian softness, looks like 'liam' and 'sophia' were the most popular baby names for newborn boys and girls, respecitvely, in 2016 [23:31]
* pete_dushenski wonder if it's all azns [23:32]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I don't think you know how wood is marketed. There SPF or "Spruce, Pine, Fir" for the ones that suck because the bulk of particular kinds of softwoods all suck in the same ways. Then you get outlifers which are also lumped together like Douglas Fir and Larch or the 3-ish species of Southern yellow pine. [23:32]
mircea_popescu: wtf bs azn names. liam ? pssshhh. [23:33]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cedar ftw. << belongs outside or as an unfinished accent. Bookshelves need to hole WEIGHT! [23:33]
BingoBoingo: *hold [23:33]
* pete_dushenski has bookshelves made of indiand rosewood that he's quite fond of [23:34]
mircea_popescu: dude cedar has a bending strength of like 9. better than chestnut. [23:35]
pete_dushenski: the 'd' in indiand is for 'original', like in bitcoind. [23:35]
mircea_popescu: get the nice aromatic red, it'll beat about half the hardwoords you can run across. [23:35]
* BingoBoingo leaning towards southern yellow pine [23:37]
BingoBoingo: with cedar backing [23:37]
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, they have this crazy shit here - picconia excelsa. the wood hardens SO MUCH as it dries you can't fucking work it [23:37]
BingoBoingo: Trees are weird [23:41]
mircea_popescu: more like a shrub imo [23:41]
BingoBoingo: Ah, a short self copicing tree! [23:43]
pete_dushenski: speaking of shortness and weirdness, happy longest night of the year! edm had just 7:28 of daylight today, so 16:32 of darkness. top that, equitarianists. [23:44]
asciilifeform: << how come ~nobody in usa has civilized bookshelves. the kind with the glass doors. [23:47]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 04:33 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cedar ftw. << belongs outside or as an unfinished accent. Bookshelves need to hole WEIGHT! [23:47]
asciilifeform: not even sold anywhere afaik. [23:47]
mircea_popescu: i saw such. not everyone's fond of the dust. [23:47]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu saw many things, probably also saw home reactor and well-maintained mig. [23:48]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: King Geoge controls glass imports! [23:48]
mircea_popescu: hey, there is such a thing as old money, even in the usa. [23:48]
* asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu admiring bush's glass bookcase doors, with trained eye [23:50]
mircea_popescu: hey, my own library housed thousands of volumes in the standard romanian bookshelf, which yes had glass [23:50]
mircea_popescu: (pretty clever design - you could hook the glass pane out by lifting it.) [23:50]
asciilifeform: well yes. civilized folk have glass. and i've never seen it since moving to monkeystan. [23:51]
* BingoBoingo thought outside on Monkeystan everyone just had a room they surrendered to compact shelving. [23:55]
pete_dushenski: << speaking of civilisation, this is how pm's lexus ls460 (same as mine, natch) merges onto freeway protected by small motorcade. note the utter fluidity of the white-gloved hand gestures. [23:57]
pete_dushenski: ^japan's pm [23:57]
* pete_dushenski is currently discovering the not inconsequential expense of new starter motor in ls. $2k! how many g5s and ppcs is that, goodness. [23:59]
BingoBoingo: What is wrong with just taking out motor and making crank? [23:59]
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