Forum logs for 19 Mar 2017
| asciilifeform: | http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-18-mar-2017#2254792 << if your scope samples at 1G/sec, and (cheapomatic) 8-bit ADC: that's a 1000MB/s. where do i buy a camera ssd that writes at this rate? | [01:14] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-03-19 02:01 mircea_popescu: how slow can it be lel. modern camera films hdtv. | [01:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes. where do you buy a 4mb internal memory that writes at that rate, seeing how that's what the fucking rigol has. | [01:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | now simmer down, you're gonna do something in the mbps range, which is what we're talking about. | [01:16] |
| asciilifeform: | you buy it anywhere, 1ns sram is not exotic | [01:17] |
| asciilifeform: | in mb/s range worx great, rigol has usb jack, even, knows how to piss to thumb drive | [01:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [01:18] |
| asciilifeform: | re that particular unit -- screen is the weak point, what with 320x200 | [01:21] |
| asciilifeform: | to n00bs i often recommend to have an analogue scope also | [01:22] |
| asciilifeform: | ( the traditional kind, with crt. ) | [01:22] |
| asciilifeform: | very versatile thing, imho not the least bit obsolete. | [01:23] |
| danielpbarron: | didn'tlikewhatshesaw | [01:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | lel | [01:47] |
| ben_vulpes: | aaand what feels like an eternity later, i have completed my first actual (minor) under-the-hood surgery on the corvette. alternator belt, which is behind the power steering, air conditioning, and "AIR" pump belts | [02:02] |
| ben_vulpes: | feels really good to get a solid grasp on a nut you'd thought completely out of reach and really wrench on it | [02:06] |
| ben_vulpes: | ) | [02:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | wd eh! | [02:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | motherfucker. so run gzip -t on an archive, it... ends silenty. | [04:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | wtf is this. did it test out ok ? did the pos just die ? WHO THE FUCK DOES THIS | [04:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | in further lulz : tar is not able to create directories with an @ in them (why ? because they don't quote, obviously), yet they're standard in exim inbox saving. ergo, can't safely tar.gz exim directory. | [08:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | who the fuck seriously runs linux ? i wish to see this wonder. | [08:05] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D32C79BBE908A0BC788FBEF17E660AC014C65AE4160A60EF8BE507DA68EFB913 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1195...0199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.50.28 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.50.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (dad-web01.cpt4.remote.chs.hetzner.co.za. ZA) | [12:12] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D32C79BBE908A0BC788FBEF17E660AC014C65AE4160A60EF8BE507DA68EFB913 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1113...3657 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.50.28 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.50.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (dad-web01.cpt4.remote.chs.hetzner.co.za. ZA) | [12:12] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D32C79BBE908A0BC788FBEF17E660AC014C65AE4160A60EF8BE507DA68EFB913 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1195...0199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.50.28 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.50.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (dad-web01.cpt4.remote.chs.hetzner.co.za. ZA) | [12:21] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8736A1AEF8241C44FB9FB8BCC9E64E793DB165405696DF922E1E7A7B308E326F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1195...0199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.189.240.22 (ssh-rsa key from 197.189.240.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown ZA) | [12:21] |
| deedbot: | http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8736A1AEF8241C44FB9FB8BCC9E64E793DB165405696DF922E1E7A7B308E326F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1279...2379 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.189.240.22 (ssh-rsa key from 197.189.240.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown ZA) | [12:21] |
| ben_vulpes: | https://www.flickr.com/photos/stml/33411791166/ | [16:02] |
| ben_vulpes: | "autonomous trap 001" | [16:03] |
| deedbot: | http://trinque.org/2017/03/19/welcome-to-houston/ << trinque - Welcome to Houston | [17:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 << 14 | [17:24] |
| Framedragger: | trinque: nice colour palette | [17:30] |
| trinque: | ty | [17:49] |
| Framedragger: | (probably wasn't clear, i mean the photo, i've read the blog before. ..almost looks like it was shot on film or sth) | [17:54] |
| trinque: | just shitty ipnoje | [17:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!up doppler | [18:32] |
| deedbot: | doppler voiced for 30 minutes. | [18:32] |
| doppler: | hello. | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | hi there. | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | an' who might you be ? | [18:37] |
| doppler: | just a dude I read your website and sort of have a loose grasp of some of the community members here | [18:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | ic. | [18:38] |
| doppler: | hoping to chill out here for a little while if that's ok | [18:41] |
| doppler: | mostly I want to learn more about where I am | [18:42] |
| trinque: | maybe you want to make better introductions than "a dude" ? | [18:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | anywya, the log's published. | [18:43] |
| doppler: | yes | [18:43] |
| doppler: | I have a lot of interests relating to computer technology and operating systems | [18:44] |
| doppler: | some of you can probably relate there | [18:44] |
| Framedragger: | doppler: i found this useful when trying to understand what are some of the things that people are doing here: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-05#1317685 (seven items) | [18:47] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-11-05 22:00 mircea_popescu: actually, this is probably long overdue and a major public service. so i ordered teh gals bring cognac and i shall proceed | [18:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | o hey, not even any mention of the church & the state. | [18:50] |
| Framedragger: | many-headed recursive hydra. | [18:50] |
| Framedragger: | i think that list was supposed to focus on technology-things, hence it being so partial. (but then, maybe one can see 'church' as a piece of technology, etc...) | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [18:51] |
| doppler: | Framedragger: thanks that's helpful. | [18:52] |
| Framedragger: | (in the greek sense of techne) | [18:52] |
| doppler: | oh yeah and of course I read asciilifeform's site too | [18:52] |
| doppler: | well before my +v expires I'd like to say it was nice to meet you. catch you later. | [19:01] |
| shinohai: | !!up doppler | [19:08] |
| deedbot: | doppler voiced for 30 minutes. | [19:08] |
| shinohai: | More importantly, who is your Daddy and what does he do? | [19:08] |
| doppler: | !~ty | [19:13] |
| jhvh1: | You are very welcome Daddy | [19:13] |
| Framedragger: | that wasn't a joke question... | [19:16] |
| doppler: | I guess I'll imagine shinohai as having an arnold voice from now on, haha | [19:18] |
| doppler: | my father does account management at a photography studio | [19:20] |
| shinohai: | I think you are proobably tghe first person I have *ever seen give a direct response* to that question here. | [19:20] |
| doppler: | I've seen that you ask it quite often | [19:21] |
| doppler: | so instead of making something up I thought I'd tell it to you straight | [19:22] |
| Framedragger: | pretty neat to actually see an answer :) | [19:22] |
| doppler: | what are/were your parents' professions? | [19:23] |
| Framedragger: | !~later tell mod6 oh is tb0t offline currently? :) | [19:24] |
| jhvh1: | Framedragger: The operation succeeded. | [19:24] |
| Framedragger: | (^ thought of printing out project names for doppler to look at) | [19:24] |
| doppler: | I have one of those families where no tree member within reasonable reach has worked on anything even remotely scientific | [19:24] |
| doppler: | which is kind of uninspiring | [19:24] |
| Framedragger: | doppler: one's psychoanalyst and the other's member of parliament (we have frequent disagreements on things, suffice to say) | [19:25] |
| Framedragger: | now that i think of it, same with my tree i think | [19:25] |
| doppler: | oh man, what a duo :) | [19:26] |
| Framedragger: | (re. scientific tree, grandfather had this notebook where he diddled lots of things. he was a kind of soviet accountant, and died when i was ~4. many years later when looking at notebook, i discover this 'game' across a great many pages of it. turns out... game of life - neat) | [19:27] |
| Framedragger: | doppler: yeah they have frequent disagreement-verbiage between themselves, too, guess that's an interesting dynamic | [19:28] |
| Framedragger: | s/diddled/doodled/ but diddled maybe even better | [19:28] |
| doppler: | ooh neat re: GoL | [19:28] |
| doppler: | that's like something you'd see in a film | [19:29] |
| doppler: | kid finds grandfather's old notebook and slowly unravels the puzzle within | [19:29] |
| Framedragger: | yeah :) i obviously didn't have any meaningful connection with him before he died, and this was the first semi-personal thing that honestly made me sad | [19:30] |
| Framedragger: | anyway not sure how useful but you might want to take a look at http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/ doppler (at *_tickets.html), not sure how up to date. also http://trilema.com/category/job-board/ for interesting projects which may be good for you as well as good for this here forum | [19:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | Framedragger> pretty neat to actually see an answer :) << quite. | [19:37] |
| doppler: | Framedragger: cool, I'll take a look | [19:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | Framedragger o god your poor mother. | [19:38] |
| Framedragger: | srsly | [19:38] |
| Framedragger: | (she is the psychoanalyst btw, but the combo yields friction regardless) | [19:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, "disagreement-verbiage" so to call it is the stuff of life. i have tons of it with my slavegirls, and they're very literal chattel slaves, not as much as a stitch they own outright nor as much as a private fold in their heart. nevertheless... | [19:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's not a bad thing, not among people who love each other. | [19:43] |
| Framedragger: | yeah, you're right, of course. | [19:44] |
| mod6: | Framedragger: thanks for the heads up | [20:29] |
| mod6: | <+Framedragger> anyway not sure how useful but you might want to take a look at http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/ doppler (at *_tickets.html), not sure how up to date. (...) << Yeah, it needs some updating. The new V is going to be out in the next few days. Then will put some time into that. | [20:30] |
| Framedragger: | ooh new V, shiny | [20:31] |
| mod6: | Yup, all the wot variant rules are in place. We now orphan vpatches from the flow where ~all~ antecedents are *not* present. Some other small changes, such as When you press to a give output directory 'X', and then press to the same given output directory, we first remove 'X', then create & press. | [20:33] |
| mod6: | Heh, I'm working on a major update to T, also. It's been a bit slow-going as that isn't obviously the most high priority item. | [20:34] |
| mod6: | I do want to outline more of the trb-i work in tickets, and do some clean-up/management of existing trb tickets. | [20:35] |
| mod6: | There is some side project stuff too that I'd like to get organized and tickets entered for. For instance, you, Framedragger, did some work towards the filesystem idea. We aught to have a ticket for that and track the results. | [20:36] |
| mod6: | Even if you think that we're at a wall, and we've seen all there is to see.. then we record those numbers. Or if we should try on baremetal with, reiserfs, and record those, or if even with those baselines, then someday we make our own filesystem and compare to those baselines. | [20:37] |
| mod6: | *shrug* | [20:37] |
| mod6: | Gotta have a way to go back and check easily, and have a place for that. | [20:37] |
| mod6: | Anyway, just as an example of side-projects that need tracking... | [20:38] |
| mod6: | It's important work. | [20:38] |
| mod6: | Would be really nice if we could get away from BDB. | [20:39] |
| mod6: | There are some other cool side projects going on now too... such as the wallet-cut effort. | [20:40] |
| mod6: | So we need some updated tracking to that effort. | [20:41] |
| mod6: | I dont need a ticket for this, but man, I really gotta get into the swing of Ada. | [20:41] |
| mod6: | So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going. | [20:42] |
| mod6: | <+asciilifeform> to n00bs i often recommend to have an analogue scope also << are these just a bit easer to learn on than their digital counterparts? | [20:46] |
| Framedragger: | mod6: fwiw i agree completely. the key point here is (as you said) *noting it down* (including dead-ends). so yeah, afaict you're on the very right track here. i wonder, does the current system need complex massaging to be able to track things like that? i mean, you can add tickets, but i guess no way for them to have a *list* of notes (per ticket) | [20:47] |
| Framedragger: | i guess having an easy way to add new projects (or have a 'misc' parent but maybe that's too dirty) would help in that it'd be easier to record stuff, including tasks not directly tied to trb or V | [20:49] |
| mod6: | no, not a list of notes per ticket in the original version. | [20:49] |
| mod6: | in the new version it's setup different. | [20:49] |
| Framedragger: | ok cool :) | [20:50] |
| mod6: | there can be public/private projects. | [20:50] |
| mod6: | there are project admins, and project users... etc. i should add the ability for rich or chained notes. | [20:51] |
| Framedragger: | (btw since there's so much different stuff happening i was considering doing something like http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481401 (and possibly using log.mkj.lt's multi-line-citation feature to 'capture' different notes/projects) but obviously expanding the ticketing system in a consistent, proper way is the way to go) | [20:51] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-06-13 01:00 Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all | [20:51] |
| mod6: | it's meant to be project cutomizeable per project... with like the ticket codes, etc. i'm building out the database now... and it's going well, just slowly. | [20:52] |
| Framedragger: | hey that sounds pretty awesome. | [20:52] |
| mod6: | hopefully it'll be at least better than the first version, which is fine for now, but certainly could be better. | [20:53] |
| mod6: | yeah, there was this intial idea of a 'stenographer'.. and I think that's what drove me to just make the ticket system. | [20:53] |
| Framedragger: | (current version records the important things including trb work, so imho it's doing fine) | [20:53] |
| mod6: | and we could track things easier instead of having to have it be a formal role. but with the new version, seperate projects can have different users, so for instance, if UCI wants a stenographer, then the project admin can just add the steno to the UCI users table. volla. | [20:55] |
| mod6: | any ticketing thing is as useful as you make it. it takes effort to remember to keep it up and to ~use~ it. any thing we can do to make that a more automated process though, is nice. | [20:56] |
| mod6: | tb0t eventually will be upgraded to use the new system. | [20:56] |
| mod6: | so that might help. i might write some sort of API also where project admins can interact with their projects without having to use IRC. | [20:57] |
| mod6: | some sort of PGP based command system. | [20:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 doesn't seem all that slow going from here :) | [20:57] |
| mod6: | :] | [20:58] |
| Framedragger: | mod6: by steganographer, do you mean a way of linking to chat lines relevant to given project, or a way of automatically linking relevant chat lines (keywords), or a (flesh) user role? just curious | [20:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 did not see ext2 did not see reiserfs. | [20:58] |
| mod6: | i started working on it very briefly ... maybe 7-10 days in like ... december. but haven't touched it since. | [20:58] |
| Framedragger: | (yeah mircea_popescu afraid i won't have time re. those other two till quite a bit later) | [20:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | sure, wasn't re you, was about his ticket. | [20:59] |
| mod6: | <+mircea_popescu> also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 did not see ext2 did not see reiserfs. << for sure. i think we're just getting started baselining these prototypes. | [20:59] |
| mod6: | so a very exciting time, as far as I'm concerned. | [21:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | fo sho. | [21:00] |
| mod6: | Framedragger: the stenographer role was proposed to be an actual job for the foundation, complete with pay and everything. | [21:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | we ~might~ even wish to see fat32/ | [21:00] |
| mod6: | The role was put on hold since I wrote `t', and 'tb0t', but might come back up again at a later date. | [21:01] |
| mod6: | You never know. | [21:01] |
| Framedragger: | mircea_popescu: oof, max fat32 size is 4gb, with a maximum of (to the tune of) hundreds of millions of files (less than 1bn) there's also exFAT of course, etc., but eugh | [21:02] |
| Framedragger: | mod6: interesting to know! | [21:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | no, i know. but if we end up patching dumbass systems, we should consider the whole field of dumbass systems. not just the ones that falsely promise to work and then fail to work but also the ones which honestly admit their limits. | [21:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't recall being as pissed off with fat32 at any point throughout the 90s as i've regularly been hence. | [21:03] |
| Framedragger: | sure. my internal alfatron says "may as well test for tape backup storage system viability" though surely it's inefficient to test *all* things in a domain that one is not optimistic to begin with. but i see your rationale of course | [21:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | consider : IF we decide to make megabyte large blocks, who says fat32 is inadequate then ? that 4gb has a lot to do with the size of a block. | [21:05] |
| Framedragger: | afraid i didn't catch this particular drift, sir | [21:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | and for that matter, who's to say a simple move to 64 bits doesn't resolve the problem altogether. but anyway, i'm more making a point than proposing a technical solution. | [21:06] |
| Framedragger: | 4096 blocks per partition, with limited number of partitions per disk, etc? | [21:06] |
| Framedragger: | suresure. | [21:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | Framedragger no, 4gb where "byte" = 1 mb. | [21:07] |
| Framedragger: | not that my word carries a lot of weight here but gotta say, alf's block storage idea (bypassing fs) makes a lotta sense (and is elegant, with defined complexity, etc.) | [21:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | to my eyes it looks a lot like fs-in-a-fs. | [21:07] |
| Framedragger: | not at all! sure, you still rely on disk's firmware but the degree of crapola-reliance is orders of magnitude less. *you do not deal with filesystem at all*. | [21:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | but yes, certainly to be looked into. | [21:09] |
| Framedragger: | you basically deal with a continuous array plus the option to be careful to read/write at sector boundaries for i/o efficiency. | [21:09] |
| mod6: | well, whatever we go with will be a solution driven by performance numbers and functional satisfaction. | [21:09] |
| Framedragger: | so many items for tickets :) | [21:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | but yes mod6 has it. gotta measure this crap. | [21:09] |
| mod6: | so, let the prototyping begin! | [21:10] |
| shinohai: | In Coinbase lulz "Customers who wish to access both blockchains at the time of the hard fork should withdraw their BTC from GDAX" | [21:46] |
| Framedragger: | gdax looks to have a sick animation on the landing page, with forever-rising candles | [21:51] |
| Framedragger: | well i'm sold | [21:51] |
| shinohai: | They are like blockchain.info where the most important "upgrades" are cute animations to the UI | [21:55] |
| * shinohai | still remembers wtf'ing with mod6 over the fact their new, improved site had no way to dump privkeys for nearly 2 months | [21:56] |
| mod6: | that made me so mad. | [22:32] |
| mod6: | well, not mad, more like disgusted | [22:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [22:40] |
| trinque: | homeboy from san antonio needs to pick a less retarded name | [23:30] |
| ben_vulpes: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-19#1629214 << "if you're not falling you're not learning", also "conflict is productive" | [23:30] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-03-19 23:43 mircea_popescu: it's not a bad thing, not among people who love each other. | [23:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | confined conflict/ | [23:31] |
| ben_vulpes: | pls to expand? | [23:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | "exothermic oxidation is productive". sure it is, if it happens in the combustion chamber. | [23:32] |
| ben_vulpes: | ah yah | [23:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's why science is based on research, yes, but not random research. paradigm-supported research. | [23:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | and so on. | [23:33] |
| ben_vulpes: | you can't spend all that energy confronting her with her own mistakes, let her walk out, digest it, and the next man benefit | [23:33] |
| ben_vulpes: | if you don't own it, what the fuck is the point fixing it? | [23:33] |
| ben_vulpes: | asks the guy who developed a recreational habit of fixing other people's toilets in the most retarded corner of south america... | [23:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [23:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | i understand you though. they're so boneheadedly retarded they're offensive to the very concepts. | [23:35] |
| * trinque | imagines ben_vulpes standing atop a fixed shitter patriotically, like the bum in mircea_popescu's parable | [23:36] |
| trinque: | THIS HERE IS MY SHITTER NOW | [23:36] |
| ben_vulpes: | i mean there's a whole trumpet flare and clouds parting and everything sure | [23:37] |
| trinque: | https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/74/76/fd/7476fdcd2b9a4afebc143ccdd72c1d7f.jpg | [23:38] |
| ben_vulpes: | but the experience is more that of having blessed some random jews wandering in the desert with the secrets of hygiene | [23:38] |
| ben_vulpes: | trinque: lol, verily | [23:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | in other lulz : there's this matte window to the side of my chicken. and there's a gecko who now lives there. but i mean totally, its his window. | [23:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suppose the light attracts delishius snacks. | [23:38] |
| ben_vulpes: | mircea_popescu: pardon me but the side of your /what/? | [23:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | ahaha | [23:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | kitchen | [23:39] |
| ben_vulpes: | anyways, upstack, i have had a very ahem productive weekend | [23:39] |
| ben_vulpes: | imagine, extracting penitence from an nth-wave feminist child of gs-infinity staff | [23:40] |
| ben_vulpes: | old hat for the mircea_popescu's | [23:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | same here. new slavegirl, haven't slept since sat. | [23:40] |
| ben_vulpes: | also acquired a few new g5 towers | [23:44] |
| ben_vulpes: | get 'em while you can, folks | [23:44] |
| ben_vulpes: | well, 'new'. new to me. | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | what, towers are disappearing ?! | [23:45] |
| ben_vulpes: | no, specifically the macintosh ppc g5's | [23:45] |
| * trinque | has several piles of that hardware here too | [23:46] |
| trinque: | the minis are also nice to have | [23:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah | [23:46] |
| ben_vulpes: | with the forth based firmware, etc | [23:46] |
| ben_vulpes: | i'm sure stan has all sorts of shade to throw | [23:46] |
| ben_vulpes: | nevertheless, i have good money that says these machines will be plentiful and cheap until they are utter unobtainium. | [23:47] |
| trinque: | http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-16#1483684 | [23:47] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-06-16 21:34 asciilifeform: it was an interesting arch | [23:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | imagine if in a few years the actual fucking chunks of metal are the point of worship. "oh man, that's tech! who can make straight angles anymore!" | [23:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | sells for 7k funbux on the ruby app. | [23:47] |
| ben_vulpes: | cases are very pretty at that | [23:48] |
| trinque: | yeh, outside and in | [23:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | you've been inside ?! | [23:48] |
| ben_vulpes: | golden era of jobsdom | [23:48] |
| * mircea_popescu | pictures 3 inch tall trinque | [23:48] |
| trinque: | lel | [23:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | ben_vulpes it occurs to me, btw, that the scam whereby people who were holding jobs shares were converted to cook shares is one of the cruelest things in nature. | [23:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | "hey, it's still apple". bitch... that is SO not apple... | [23:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | "well... the other guy died" aaaand this is my problem how! i bought jobs stock not fucking wtf this is. | [23:49] |
| ben_vulpes: | mircea_popescu: bezzle land corporate structuring is just sad on every axis | [23:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty much | [23:50] |
| ben_vulpes: | hacker nyooz recently realized how brokerages add slack to the market, twas a lulzy set of comments | [23:50] |
| trinque: | been considering the ideological reproduction thing since recent genetics threads (and rereading related trilema) | [23:50] |
| ben_vulpes: | 'omfg you mean to tell me there's no centralized database of who owns what and owes who else which shares?' | [23:51] |
| trinque: | you'd have thought Ive was going to be the guy | [23:51] |
| ben_vulpes: | mircea_popescu: to be fair, anyone who didn't liquidate a week before jobs' illness hit the rags is a derp who got what they deserved | [23:51] |
| ben_vulpes: | but you know how it goes. traders, trade. hodlers, hodl. investors, what dat. | [23:52] |
| trinque: | how many decades of Jobs beatings did Ive take, and he what, internalized none of it? | [23:53] |
| trinque: | guy probably had more of it directed at him than anybody else in the place | [23:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | ben_vulpes yes, from an individual perspective. but in aggregate, worst case of confederate dollars ever. "we'll take these 5bn shares of apple and replace them with 5bn shjares of crapple. because it's ok hurr." | [23:53] |
| ben_vulpes: | oh, come, he just organized the teams as what took the shellacking | [23:54] |
| ben_vulpes: | stood by, happy to not be in the hotseat | [23:54] |
| trinque: | not according to his own account | [23:54] |
| trinque: | entirely not so | [23:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | lel own account ? | [23:54] |
| ben_vulpes: | i'm plain unaware of what he says | [23:54] |
| trinque: | I've heard Ive talking (with misty eye almost) about how the relationship with Jobs was "hard" | [23:54] |
| ben_vulpes: | well ofc he'd /say/ that, /now/ | [23:55] |
| ben_vulpes: | dipshits who got onto the car project will say that about /him/ | [23:55] |
| trinque: | mk my whole point here is that the obvious successor failed | [23:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | succession is a particularly dubious proposition. | [23:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't think there's a case in history where the shareholders got their money's worth. | [23:56] |
| trinque: | entirely my point, aha | [23:56] |
| ben_vulpes: | kill the old boss and take his chair | [23:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | so much so that it seems to me the whole model is fundamentally flawed. what "corporation" ? bs. wot-style, one man. | [23:57] |
| * ben_vulpes | chants blood blood blood | [23:57] |
| trinque: | "our company" just like "our democracy" | [23:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | the delusion of a corporation has at its core the notion that "what to do" is a well explored space, and that "anyone" could and moreover in that position would be doing it. | [23:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | this works ok if the corporation does stuff buffett understands, like fishing, or manufacturing chewing gum | [23:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | nobody gives a shit about that, nor can a model based on such examples be THE MODEL. | [23:58] |
| ben_vulpes: | buffet at least endeavoured once upon a time to buy firms with established mgmt. | [23:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | and especially these days, when they don't even own the capital goods in any sense whatsoever. | [23:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | ben_vulpes yeah, and guess why ? because outside of the owner, the paper's not worth jack. | [23:59] |
| ben_vulpes: | funny, veen and i were just running through this | [23:59] |
Category: Logs
