Forum logs for 19 Dec 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:

BingoBoingo:	Camoflage https://i.sli.mg/CDco9B.png	[00:16]
asciilifeform:	ugh	[00:17]
BingoBoingo:	http://www.vagabondjourney.com/bad-tripping-fat-crap-low-big-people-using-squatter-toilets-asia/	[00:44]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: http://www.od43.com/1941_Eichmann_Rothschild_RB.html << 'your' rothchild chick lived?!	[00:58]
Framedragger:	congrats on the shipment asciilifeform :)	[01:31]
ben_vulpes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch	[01:55]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-16 23:46 asciilifeform: btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790	[01:55]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform i'm sorry ?	[07:46]
mircea_popescu:	ahahaha! so : according to mp's meticulously kept state archives : yes it's true one josef israel kugelmann from fritzlar-kassel (#29044 born 13may1877, prev residence munsterstrasse 60) was (and died) at dachau. his wife, ~betty~ sara, was nee plaut not rotschild.	[07:55]
mircea_popescu:	seems you found an internet fake.	[08:01]
Framedragger:	um, i was testing a script, and submitted gpg key to phuctor with luzly metainfo (http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7F1646FA33357FBC152F66E66E297B4F11EF0C3B04438FDF3B254993C3A6F814).. erm, since those specific rsa numbers are already in phuctor db, it'd be safe to remove this one asciilifeform. or keep it for the luls	[08:36]
Framedragger:	(metainfo was supposed to be different but i experienced a derp.)	[08:37]
mircea_popescu:	hand operations not worht it	[08:37]
Framedragger:	this was while testing a script to be given to this austrian dude who wrote me, asking how to submit his server's ssh key (ssh server running on a nonstandard port)	[08:38]
mircea_popescu:	convertors, not a bad idea. we'll have to fix everything to work with proper rsa format anyways	[08:38]
Framedragger:	i think some sysadmins may want to be able to submit their ssh-rsa pubkeys themselves. and phuctor only accepts openpgp format, this needs to be converted (ssh pubkey -> gpg pubkey). so i'm adapting/stealing jurov's script and cleaning it up.	[08:38]
Framedragger:	indeed..	[08:39]
Framedragger:	(and yeah, this dude was like, "hey nice project, how do i submit my key for testing" - cool.)	[08:39]
Framedragger:	(i clarified to him that it's not my project, dunno how he got the impression)	[08:40]
mircea_popescu:	wellyour name's on it	[08:41]
Framedragger:	but also asciilifeform's and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't	[08:42]
Framedragger:	i.e., maybe it's not clear because asciilifeform is too shy	[08:42]
Framedragger:	eh, whatevs. i redirect the masses to f.a.q. etc as needed.	[08:42]
Framedragger:	(by masses i mean one dude)	[08:43]
mircea_popescu:	i don't think you understand how software works. there's a very clear denied middle : it is either the product of a ~lone individual~, or else of a corporation. there is no multiple-people-work-without-usg-foundations-and-crap in most people's minds, because there isn't such a thing is most people's experience.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu:	it's like the girl that naturally fucks on the first date, and demands to be fucked in the ass. yes they can exist. no they don't figure in anyone's expectations.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu:	and yes if you run into one, you're probably one step removed from a guy who http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580129 and two steps removed from truckloads of $forbidenitems	[08:45]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?	[08:45]
mircea_popescu:	https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy	[09:15]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585548 << thing was quite certainly not built to be wound backwards	[09:29]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 13:37 mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it	[09:29]
asciilifeform:	(removing anything whatsoever, is very very painful)	[09:29]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??	[09:30]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 13:42 Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't	[09:30]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585564 << folx throw in all kinds of nonsense when answering spam surveys, mega-surprise ?	[09:30]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 14:15 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy	[09:30]
asciilifeform:	'auto: bmw fuel: hamburger'	[09:31]
Framedragger:	asciilifeform: apparently not clear to some.	[09:34]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585532 << it wouldn't be so astonishing if in the process of 'heightening the contradictions', academitards who go against party line end up with revoked degrees. this was sop in the last reich, why not this one.	[09:38]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 03:58 BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjanis missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi. The blogs editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a Hail Trump	[09:38]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform at least media consumption data comes from their netflix boxes spying onthem	[09:38]
mircea_popescu:	no surveys involved.	[09:38]
asciilifeform:	netflix has hardware box?!	[09:38]
* mircea_popescu	suffers from a chronic inability to distinguish the microsoft vermin.	[09:39]
asciilifeform:	but sure, i can picture how this part might work.	[09:39]
mircea_popescu:	much like some people can't tell blacks apart, i can't really distinguish between https-and-unicode flavouring #1 and #2	[09:39]
mircea_popescu:	so watever, tivo ? cable top box ? call it what you will, the official-media-consumption-toolkit.	[09:40]
asciilifeform:	these are becoming fewer in number, even among chronic tv users	[09:41]
asciilifeform:	but yes, i can see how it might work, given as most folx who have these get their ip connectivity from same place as the tv box	[09:42]
mircea_popescu:	are you fucking kidding me ? bad media is becoming deeply universalized i made the mistake to try and watch "black mirror" because omsone said here, it's TERRIBLE from a cinematic point of view (the idiots can't act, can't block, can't speak, can't anyfucking thing the whole thing's a droned on ted talk, which is the point) and now i see it everwhere. last night tried to watch film with harvey keitel and michael cain, it	[09:43]
mircea_popescu:	turned out to be unwatchable - the EXACT same imbecile substance.	[09:43]
mircea_popescu:	"oh men are bad and racist and let's all hold hands and have luce irigaray-level issues"	[09:43]
mircea_popescu:	put on stage by exactly the sort of lazy, stupid and therefore unfuckworthy nitwit that used to be consigned to the margins of etsy craftsmanship and bad mary sue fanfic.	[09:44]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: the ~hardware box~ is becoming less common. most of the derps are watching on comp now.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu:	fucking epileptic trees had a seizure and took over us media production department.,	[09:44]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform sure, because https & assorted crapola of "progress" made it safe to move the box on their pc. and it is cheaper this way.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu:	consequently attwood pens excited pieces about how "the golden age of x46 gaming is now".	[09:45]
mircea_popescu:	ie, the same idiots who thought clinton can win actually think they got the platform sufficiently under control.	[09:46]
* mircea_popescu	is particularly annoyed because tried to play torchlight, total clone of diablo ii with ~half the ideas. i'm not sure anyone born after 1980 can even comprehend what a fucking insult to human reason that statement is.	[09:47]
mircea_popescu:	like "star wars with less ideas".	[09:47]
mircea_popescu:	"the golden age of all the games suck but we finally don't feel threatened by pgp anymore"	[09:48]
asciilifeform:	speaking of trumplincton, the actual ceremony is apparently today.	[09:48]
asciilifeform:	(not the coronation, but the anointment)	[09:48]
mircea_popescu:	lol	[09:49]
mircea_popescu:	are you going ?	[09:49]
asciilifeform:	the electoral college thing isn't public	[09:50]
asciilifeform:	and i dun recall being invited	[09:50]
asciilifeform:	the other one, might go to, if bored enough	[09:50]
mircea_popescu:	o.O sikrit meetings of representatives ? sounds so very november parade-y!	[09:50]
asciilifeform:	aha that's how they do it	[09:51]
mircea_popescu:	do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ?	[09:51]
asciilifeform:	habemus fuhrer!111	[09:51]
mircea_popescu:	i think fuhrer is german. prolly fraulein in latin.	[09:52]
asciilifeform:	lel	[09:54]
asciilifeform:	https://archive.is/xTr3N << holy mother of fuck, is that... a trinitron ? in there	[09:54]
mircea_popescu:	it might well be	[09:55]
mircea_popescu:	shape looks kinda right and the static collection fits the tube patter	[09:55]
asciilifeform:	aha.	[09:56]
mircea_popescu:	lol idiots drank antifreeze	[09:56]
mircea_popescu:	how. how the fuck. how do you drink antifreeze it's like the most objectionable thing in nature.	[09:56]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: you gotta be a serious 'alconaut', and accustomed to swallowing strange, to get there	[09:57]
mircea_popescu:	must have like <3 tastebuds left.	[09:57]
mircea_popescu:	the same species that can glossaly grade nafta dies from antifreeze ingestion. fucking diversity of mankind already.	[09:58]
asciilifeform:	'Did He who made the lamb make thee?' (tm)(r)	[09:59]
mircea_popescu:	oh i bet i know what it is, derps prolly use methyl glycol for antifreeze	[10:01]
mircea_popescu:	why the fuck you'd do that is beyond anyone's comprehension, but w/e.	[10:01]
asciilifeform:	in same rag, https://archive.is/pGDLS >> clitlerists go after the 'heil tritler' d00d's mother. his fans - fight back. 'oh noez localhaust'	[10:01]
shinohai:	"How did we get hacked? I just don't understand, employee information was so secure!" http://www.nerc.com/AboutNERC/Resource%20Documents/roster.pdf	[10:08]
mod6:	mornin'	[10:19]
mircea_popescu:	hola!	[10:21]
shinohai:	heya mod6	[10:23]
mod6:	how's it goin today ?	[10:24]
mircea_popescu:	no mal!	[10:28]
mod6:	bien :]	[10:30]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it	[10:47]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 06:55 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch	[10:47]
asciilifeform:	(specifically, cpuminer thread will sleep forever if there are no peers in the peer table, or if it - through braindamaged heuristic - decides that node is in 'initial block download')	[10:48]
asciilifeform:	also imho ben_vulpes has a very spiffy project here and it deserves more brain cycles, he is actually testing the 'bitcoin on alpha centauri' scenario! i.e. replay of time, from genesis and up, in parallel universe, on trb.	[10:50]
mircea_popescu:	^	[10:51]
asciilifeform:	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0056 << and holy shit what is this.	[10:52]
mircea_popescu:	pretty sure various people (myself included) did full trb blockchain download but mimi's very open and usefully so.	[10:52]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: no, not full download! that's trivial and everyone did it	[10:52]
asciilifeform:	he is doing mine-from-0	[10:53]
asciilifeform:	in parallel world.	[10:53]
asciilifeform:	y'know, to see if trb miner actually works. and if indeed the thing can be put on alpha centauri.	[10:53]
mircea_popescu:	what did i say you're no-ing at ?	[10:54]
mircea_popescu:	and that looks like ... defensive buffer allocation ? lol.	[10:54]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: as i understand, you were referring to 'spin up trb node from 0 on real-life blockchain'. which more or less everyone involved has done, multiple times. his current thing appears to be the 'lan testnet' scenario i suggested a while back. where one pretends that the year is 2009.	[10:55]
asciilifeform:	and mines from genesis, transacts between toy nodes, etc.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu:	i said everyone did x, but y is good.	[10:56]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, yes, same sentiment.	[10:56]
asciilifeform:	it is necessary. afaik trb's miner has not been tested since... 2011?	[10:56]
mircea_popescu:	2013ish	[10:57]
mod6:	i've run it myself since then for sure.	[10:58]
mod6:	im running it now!	[10:59]
mod6:	works fine.	[10:59]
asciilifeform:	neato.	[10:59]
mod6:	# LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getgenerate	[10:59]
mod6:	true	[10:59]
mod6:	# uptime 15:59:09 up 336 days, 17:26, 6 users, load average: 1.21, 0.94, 0.52	[10:59]
asciilifeform:	mod6: yes but does it produce a block ?	[10:59]
mod6:	(15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=setgenerate	[10:59]
mod6:	(15:57) <@mod6> 1 processors	[10:59]
mod6:	(15:57) <@mod6> Starting 1 BitcoinMiner threads	[10:59]
mod6:	(15:57) <@mod6> BitcoinMiner started	[10:59]
mod6:	(15:57) <@mod6> keypool reserve 64	[10:59]
mod6:	(15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=getgenerate	[10:59]
asciilifeform:	as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine	[11:00]
mod6:	produce a block? quit trollin'	[11:00]
asciilifeform:	nono, not on planet earth net !	[11:00]
asciilifeform:	in mod6's parallel world.	[11:00]
mircea_popescu:	no he is right, you can mine it if you stay on a special subnet that's isolated.	[11:00]
mod6:	that i do not know. but indeed a good test. set diff to 1, then generate	[11:01]
mircea_popescu:	kinda what prb "testnet" tries to be	[11:01]
mod6:	totally worthwhile. but the exant code appears to still work on main-net anyway. but agreed, more testing/auditing/investigation required for sure.	[11:02]
asciilifeform:	i killed the 'testnet' crud because wtf, why did it use variant rules from main-net.	[11:03]
asciilifeform:	it made 0 sense.	[11:03]
mod6:	yeah, agree.	[11:04]
asciilifeform:	it is entirely possible to test 'bitcoin from 2009' simply by running from empty blockchain on lan.	[11:04]
mod6:	i signed it.	[11:04]
asciilifeform:	and if not -- then it is broken and needs fixing.	[11:04]
mod6:	lemme dig something up.	[11:04]
asciilifeform:	ok i'ma quote this atrocity in the l0gz, because so far as i can tell, it works only by accident, and is an epic wtf:	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0054 // Align by increasing pointer, must have extra space at end of buffer	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0055 template <size_t nBytes, typename T>	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0056 T* alignup(T* p)	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0057 {	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0058 union	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0059 {	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0060 T* ptr	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0061 size_t n	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0062 } u	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0063 u.ptr = p	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0064 u.n = (u.n + (nBytes-1)) & ~(nBytes-1)	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0065 return u.ptr	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	0066 }	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	can anyone tell me how the union here can possibly not result in rubbish?	[11:05]
mircea_popescu:	hey, you signed it mofo :D	[11:06]
asciilifeform:	afaik this only lives in genesis.	[11:07]
mod6:	So i think you pointed at this recently: http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L12379	[11:07]
asciilifeform:	mod6: aha, several times	[11:08]
mod6:	and if it is required to be attached to at least one other node, then that may be a problem. We could still test on a lan, but you'd have to have two trb nodes on that lan to get past that line of code.	[11:08]
asciilifeform:	mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585663	[11:08]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 16:00 asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine	[11:08]
mod6:	ah, thx.	[11:08]
mod6:	(still trying to catch up, as you can see haha)	[11:09]
mod6:	And yah, that union is scary.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu:	its not altogether a bad idea to do this on the contrary, it is the sort of thinking process that denotes a healthy, functioning intellect.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu:	(the mining not the union)	[11:09]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, that union is at best a screaming idiocy, and at worst a boobytrap, it is a way to straight-out arithmetically munge a pointer without provoking gcc warning	[11:10]
asciilifeform:	interestingly, it is used only in the miner.	[11:11]
mod6:	i look forward to ben_vulpes's investgation on this.	[11:17]
BingoBoingo:	<asciilifeform> netflix has hardware box?! << Usually "netflix box" is built into newer, shittier tvs	[11:20]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: that would do it	[11:20]
mod6:	An update on progress towards the privkey tools feature added [ import private key with scanning from a specified beginHeight ]: I have proven out the edge case previously mentioned, twice, as expected. It can be resolved by doing a -rescan at any time. So far at least.	[11:20]
asciilifeform:	mod6: which edge case ?	[11:21]
mod6:	Lemme see if I can dig it up, stand by.	[11:21]
mod6:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580953	[11:21]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-10 19:49 mod6: This edge case being: If pub/priv keypair A, have been sent 1.0 bitcoins on say, tx 123456789, on block 200`000. Then sent 0.5 bitcoins from pub/priv keypair A to pubkey address B on block 250`000. If the uesr only scans back from 300`000, the balance in the wallet may not reflect the 0.5 output still there for that pubkey (from keypair A).	[11:21]
BingoBoingo:	<mircea_popescu> do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ? << Election by Throckmorton's Sign!	[11:21]
mircea_popescu:	heh	[11:22]
mod6:	There are some cosmetic changes I may still make to the handling of the parameters of this function, and further testing, auditing, and validation are still required by third-parties.	[11:22]
mod6:	But certainly a step in the right direction. Will update again as they are available. Salud!	[11:23]
asciilifeform:	mod6: as i understand it, the cure is to scan backwards until the search tree terminates in coinbases for all branches.	[11:24]
asciilifeform:	(which could indeed take you through the entire history of the universe, but chances are -- it won't)	[11:25]
mod6:	we've discussed this.	[11:25]
mod6:	and, we certainly could scan backwards.	[11:25]
mod6:	however, this requires further code changes than are actually necessary.	[11:26]
asciilifeform:	probably. i imagine the use case for this knob is simple, 'i want to know if i've been paid, and the counterparty has no time machine, so it'll happen some time after $lastblock'	[11:26]
mod6:	i don't love this feature as it introduces complexity and an edge-case that mig-pilot needs to be aware of in the first place. but i'll consider it based on the idea that the complexity can be contained.	[11:26]
asciilifeform:	so mod6's simple 'search after $blocknum' worx.	[11:27]
mod6:	sure.	[11:29]
mod6:	my vpatch essentially utilizes this function, which exists in the vpatch that was already sent to the ML:	[11:29]
mod6:	pwalletMain->ScanForWalletTransactions(pindexStart, true)	[11:29]
mircea_popescu:	tracing all payments to the coinbase will be useful if/when we decide to not accept "segwit" payments.	[11:29]
mircea_popescu:	"if your coinbases do not trace to a block subsidy, you did not pay." sort of thing.	[11:30]
mod6:	http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L25189 << scans forward from an index pointer	[11:30]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, for so long as we continue to count gavinistic payments as actual coin, and forgo 'trace to coinbase', there is a hole wide enough to drive a tank through, for conjuring coin from thin air	[11:30]
mod6:	mircea_popescu: ah. now that's an interesting argument.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform you can deterministically verify that segwit doesn't create coins without accessing their proprietary binary blob.	[11:31]
asciilifeform:	only by tallying up the circulating coin, neh ?	[11:31]
asciilifeform:	which is agonizingly O(N^2)	[11:31]
mircea_popescu:	by tallying up the segwit inputs and outputs. well, sure, but it can be verified is the point.	[11:32]
asciilifeform:	has anybody publicly carried this out ?	[11:32]
mircea_popescu:	it also doesn't work for any individual transaction, just for the whole windows abomination taken together.	[11:32]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform it's in "give them rope" phase of my give them rope to hang themselves with procedure.	[11:32]
asciilifeform:	true, wouldn't want to knock out the stool from under the gavin until the noose is properly on.	[11:33]
mircea_popescu:	more's the point, notwithstanding we got a reprieve from "get it done by summer", we still don't have actual alternative we're happy with, so... what's the rush.	[11:34]
asciilifeform:	it would still be interesting to have alarm bell in trb , connected to 'i booted and it looks like >$maxcoin bitcoin are circulating'	[11:36]
mircea_popescu:	true.	[11:36]
* mircea_popescu	recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.)	[11:37]
asciilifeform:	sum(unspent)	[11:38]
mircea_popescu:	no i mean the max.	[11:38]
asciilifeform:	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0037	[11:40]
mod6:	mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post	[11:41]
mircea_popescu:	in other unrelated lulz, buenos aires, one of the largest urban (well, "urban", whatever) agglomerations in the world ... closed down its subway system today. all of it. probem ???	[11:42]
asciilifeform:	we had this early in the year here in mordor, after a fire, it was a kind of test-run for collapse, road jams as far as eye could see	[11:43]
asciilifeform:	( a substantial portion of who is in washington on a business day, leaves at the end of same day in the underground train )	[11:44]
mircea_popescu:	this isn't after a fire. this is because... well... the subte employees are protesting.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu:	they can do this here. somehow.	[11:44]
asciilifeform:	lul	[11:44]
mircea_popescu:	and not like there was an angry crowd at the entryways prepared to set them on fire, either.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu:	somehow this bunch of idiots wants me to believe that a bovine constituency that doesn't give a shit about turned off subway somehow actually goes out and protests the government.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu:	because i'm supposed to have been born as stupid as they are or wtf.	[11:46]
ben_vulpes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585630 << and specifically, i believe isInitialBlockDownload	[11:48]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it	[11:48]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: the peer thing also	[11:49]
asciilifeform:	srsly, wtf, why	[11:49]
ben_vulpes:	yeah we did this	[11:49]
ben_vulpes:	i acquiesed to the inanity and made 2 nodes happen	[11:49]
ben_vulpes:	still no mining, and my nose points at the initialblock check	[11:50]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: quite likely it is stuck in the 'initialblock' idiocy, yes	[11:51]
mircea_popescu:	ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0	[11:51]
asciilifeform:	gavin et al definitely did not want anyone to experiment with replaying the universe, no.	[11:51]
mircea_popescu:	in typical style, poorly documented (satoshi made, too)	[11:51]
ben_vulpes:	mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?	[11:52]
mircea_popescu:	satoshi up and fucked up the client one day.	[11:52]
ben_vulpes:	k thx	[11:53]
ben_vulpes:	produced blocks that it wouldn't validate itself? throw me a bone here	[11:53]
asciilifeform:	to briefly revisit upstack, when is the last time that anyone verified that all of the circulating coin (i.e. unspent outputs) can trace their descent to valid coinbases ?	[11:53]
mircea_popescu:	not in theory.	[11:53]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform nobody did this publicly EVER afaik the non-donedness of which is a variable i keep track of in mah own models.	[11:54]
asciilifeform:	say we drill'em and -----	[11:54]
asciilifeform:	tungsten.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu:	hey, you're the tungsten expert, go ahead.	[11:54]
asciilifeform:	betcha this'd be, what, 3 new lines on top of ben_vulpes's proggy.	[11:56]
mircea_popescu:	indeed.	[11:56]
ben_vulpes:	stop committing me to things	[11:56]
asciilifeform:	hey you wrote it, ben_vulpes , so i'ma save the glory of the discovery for you!111	[11:56]
mircea_popescu:	he's seen it in others and is fascinated by the process have you noticed he spent the past few weeks trying to commit people to things ?	[11:56]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform you suck as a pm alf, give it up.	[11:56]
asciilifeform:	'you were woodland animals all along!' (tm) (r) ('oglaf')	[11:57]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: i'm experimenting with not-attempting-every-possible-thing-with-own-hands	[11:57]
ben_vulpes:	i just demoted the entirety of my todo list in favor of this mining thing, which is actually a subtask on a thing for mod6	[11:57]
mircea_popescu:	yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em.	[11:58]
ben_vulpes:	so sqlator q1 is feasible but whatever, don't count on it.	[11:58]
asciilifeform:	lol, nobody has to do the homework if they dun want.	[11:58]
ben_vulpes:	subj of homework	[11:58]
ben_vulpes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579351 << i have archived everything on that www-cgi endpoint now	[11:59]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely	[11:59]
asciilifeform:	neato ben_vulpes , is this mirror somewhere /	[11:59]
asciilifeform:	?	[12:00]
ben_vulpes:	if anyone wants copies, you know where to write. the recipe, however, is tres simple: wget -mpr www-cgi>	[12:00]
ben_vulpes:	thanks, tmux	[12:00]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: if you'd like a copy i can get you a link later today	[12:00]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: actually do you think stuffing entire www-dir behind webserver > gzipped ball?	[12:01]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform anyway, gavin&friends nuked the historical codebase (was on sourceforge, http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19/ was first announced version) because "moving to github", gotta be proper usg tools and all. then github of course includes nothing but their current crap.	[12:01]
* ben_vulpes	off. pants train	[12:04]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: ever diff'em?	[12:06]
mircea_popescu:	diff who ?	[12:06]
asciilifeform:	original vs gavin	[12:08]
mircea_popescu:	nope.	[12:08]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, you should see the early versions, with bitmaps and shit.	[12:19]
asciilifeform:	bitmaps??	[12:35]
mircea_popescu:	ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform aha!	[12:36]
asciilifeform:	this was in the 'complete words of satoshi' deadtree i bought some years ago	[12:36]
mircea_popescu:	!~google addressbook16mask.bmp	[12:36]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: zcash/ui.rc at master · zcash/zcash · GitHub: <https://github.com/zcash/zcash/blob/master/share/ui.rc> sidecoin/ui.rc at master · AugurProject/sidecoin · GitHub: <https://github.com/AugurProject/sidecoin/blob/master/share/ui.rc> quark/ui.rc at master · MaxGuevara/quark · GitHub: <https://github.com/MaxGuevara/quark/blob/master/share/ui.rc>	[12:36]
asciilifeform:	ah the gui crapola	[12:37]
mircea_popescu:	no, this is pre qt.	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	wx	[12:37]
mircea_popescu:	above appears eg in 0.1.5	[12:37]
mircea_popescu:	right	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	originally wx (which is the 'pepsicola' to qt, there were and are precisely 2 cross-os gui libs that work at all, wx and qt. wx is the c lib)	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	wx is gnarly but at least doesn't require entire preprocessor!	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	(qt, believe or not, does, a standard cpp compiler won't eat raw qt code)	[12:39]
mircea_popescu:	heh.	[12:40]
asciilifeform:	https://archive.is/kEEmw << apparently brownshirts!1111	[12:41]
mircea_popescu:	heh	[12:42]
asciilifeform:	'But the experts could not think of another example of a president-elect continuing with any private security after Election Day, when Secret Service protection expands dramatically for the winner. In fact, most candidates drop any outside security the moment they’re granted Secret Service protection. Trump’s spending on private security, on the other hand, actually increased after he was granted Secret Service protection in Nove	[12:43]
asciilifeform:	mber 2015.'	[12:43]
asciilifeform:	ohnoez, EXPERTS COULD NOT THINK!1111	[12:43]
mircea_popescu:	experts also don't have the winner's keen incentive to get rid of the praetorian guard, and permanently.	[12:47]
mircea_popescu:	if /me worked for the us secret service, /me would be getting permanently lost in $farcountry just about last week.	[12:48]
asciilifeform:	loooong knives!111	[12:48]
mircea_popescu:	pretty dangerous thing to be in january 2017.	[12:48]
asciilifeform:	elsewhere, in nearby monkeystans, https://archive.is/5Q1U8 >> 'Venezuela’s president said Sunday that the sudden decision to scrap the country’s most-used currency bill was an economic triumph over the country’s enemies even as the government sent troops and police to cities where riots and looting broke out over the measure. In a national radio and television broadcast, Nicolas Maduro said his abrupt action had flooded the cou	[12:48]
asciilifeform:	ntry’s banks with currency deposited by Venezuelans racing to get rid of the paper bills while also devastating Colombian-border currency traders he blames for the bolivar’s precipitous plunge in value against “the criminal dollar.”'	[12:48]
asciilifeform:	full-bore india	[12:48]
mircea_popescu:	more like full bore korea.	[12:49]
ben_vulpes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585810 << asciilifeform didn't you do a whole run of eatblock? 'deterministic sync'?	[13:02]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.	[13:02]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: i did, several times	[13:02]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: worx great	[13:02]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585568 << he means it's missing link to twitter and hackernews profiles :}	[13:02]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??	[13:02]
mircea_popescu:	blocks ~prior to that date~ not the current blockchain.	[13:03]
ben_vulpes:	because 'new' validation rules?	[13:03]
mircea_popescu:	there were at least a dozen blocks including breaking txns. at the time.	[13:03]
asciilifeform:	i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days	[13:03]
ben_vulpes:	mircea_popescu: and the rules were changed to permit these busted transactions?	[13:03]
asciilifeform:	incidentally all of asciilifeform's public trb nodes descend from that one.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu:	no, on the contrary, to retroactively orphan what were valid blocks at the time	[13:03]
ben_vulpes:	aah	[13:04]
ben_vulpes:	so there's no 'at block XXX use iAmRetardedBlockValidator'?	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	well, "valid". what had been accepted.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	ben_vulpes not afaik.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	but the discussion wasn't that, it was "rewalk history" bla bla.	[13:04]
ben_vulpes:	yeah i hadn't seen one. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	history-as is has some various peculiarities, such as this.	[13:04]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: all of the blocks in my chain validate per trb. (at one time i suspected that they would not -- but they do.)	[13:05]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: mine too	[13:05]
ben_vulpes:	embarassing as it is that i'm only now finding that trb doesn't solipsistically mine, i did determine that it validates the whole chain.	[13:06]
mircea_popescu:	how is this embarassing	[13:06]
ben_vulpes:	thing is broken in very obvious way, news in year 3	[13:07]
ben_vulpes:	one man's obvious is another man's obscure rathole broken by shitgnomes	[13:08]
mircea_popescu:	tru.	[13:08]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes et al : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << the deterministic sync thing	[13:09]
asciilifeform:	for reference.	[13:10]
BingoBoingo:	<mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9	[13:10]
asciilifeform:	using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.	[13:10]
ben_vulpes:	aha	[13:11]
ben_vulpes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408 also somewhat relevant	[13:11]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?	[13:11]
mats:	http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot 'Russia's ambassador to Turkey assassinated in Ankara'	[13:11]
ben_vulpes:	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html	[13:12]
asciilifeform:	mats: usg certainly would not like anything like diplomacy to carry on between ru and tr	[13:14]
mats:	http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745297/US-Embassy-security-incident-attack-Ankara-Russian-ambassador-shooting	[13:15]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.	[13:16]
asciilifeform:	mats: lolnoshit, 'seekoority incident', the backstage folx who helped mr.pistolero do his thing, needed to cover their retreat	[13:17]
ben_vulpes:	isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?	[13:17]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: let's do gedankenexperiment.	[13:17]
mats:	have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform	[13:17]
mats:	i'd read it	[13:18]
asciilifeform:	say martians show up with magical comp that can orphan 2009 blocks	[13:18]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: i disembark this train shortly, but yes lets	[13:18]
asciilifeform:	you will let'em ?	[13:18]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin	[13:18]
asciilifeform:	iirc we had a thread with mircea_popescu , who remarked that it is not obviously wrong to 'let'em'	[13:18]
ben_vulpes:	'cold equations'	[13:19]
asciilifeform:	it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.	[13:19]
ben_vulpes:	what rules are these that they might not win?	[13:20]
ben_vulpes:	also this 'win' is baked into how the blockchain works.	[13:20]
BingoBoingo:	Lesson of latest initial sync in progress, things that were milestone last time this year are but one further year of blocks away from completion	[13:20]
asciilifeform:	well not per current trb!	[13:20]
ben_vulpes:	aha tru	[13:21]
asciilifeform:	current trb, by default, nails down the early (300k?) blox	[13:21]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough..	[13:21]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu:	mats us ambassador in manilla sleeping with a buttplug.	[13:21]
ben_vulpes:	i do not see this 'win' as bugful.	[13:21]
ben_vulpes:	perhaps, though, 'grandfathers pistols' problem rears its head here.	[13:21]
ben_vulpes:	but that the thing won't lan-mine is abhorrent imho	[13:22]
ben_vulpes:	and the checkpoints are at the root of that by my read.	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: sometimes 'grandfather's pistol' problem is complicated when it becomes evident that grandfather never actually shot anyone with his pistol	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	and no one has any idea whether it even fires	[13:22]
ben_vulpes:	also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: you can use jurov's viewwe	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	*viewer	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	i do	[13:22]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform it's not that the guy was the architect of the dept of state's most recent and most embarassing failure.	[13:23]
ben_vulpes:	not only is there state smattered everywhere but it's inscrutably altered by who even knows what when	[13:23]
asciilifeform:	e.g., http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=mapBlockIndex	[13:23]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: i too, on occasion.	[13:23]
ben_vulpes:	more frequently i just regenerate my tags file.	[13:23]
mircea_popescu:	this absolutely requires smarter guy on the usg side shot. and there will be some shooting. thing is there's not that many competent dudes on us side.	[13:23]
* ben_vulpes	off again, chiral train operation	[13:23]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585887 << it is very wrong, on the level of braindage wrong, to imagine that there can be such a thing as an ex post facto choice.	[13:26]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.	[13:26]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu:	if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu:	no.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu:	it isn't a choice.	[13:27]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585903 << you can also use ctags that comes with emacs. you do "ctags -e -R ." in the root of codebase, and then M-. will take you to the definition. (M-. first time will ask you for the tags file, which will be in the root of codebase)	[13:27]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase	[13:27]
mircea_popescu:	yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.	[13:27]
asciilifeform:	well presently trb nodes ~aren't~ operating strictly on 'race to the swiftest', they have the ancient checkpoint thing.	[13:28]
mircea_popescu:	this is true.	[13:28]
asciilifeform:	where history happened a certain way and blocks <300k or what it was, are physically unorphanable	[13:28]
asciilifeform:	just as how the genesis is hardcoded.	[13:28]
asciilifeform:	btw the checkpoints were certainly not there against martians with infinitely fast miner, but against more elementary syncing-node-mitm.	[13:29]
asciilifeform:	which remains as simple today as it ever was.	[13:29]
mircea_popescu:	yep.	[13:29]
asciilifeform:	so it is not obvious that 'race -- to the swiftest' is correct answer, anyone who can stuff a node into a solipsist cave, can replay time and orphan early blocks, if there is nothing like 'checkpoint'.	[13:30]
asciilifeform:	the real question is whether any type of checkpointing is really a permanent pill against this.	[13:31]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2016/12/democrats-attempt-to-threatenbribe-electors-in-bid-to-stop-the-great-again/ << Qntra - Democrats Attempt To Threaten/Bribe Electors In Bid To Stop The Great Again	[13:31]
asciilifeform:	a mitmer has, theoretically, ~infinite~ time to munge any particular block of his choice	[13:31]
asciilifeform:	regardless of difficulty	[13:31]
mircea_popescu:	race is to the swiftest ~and~ idiots must die.	[13:32]
asciilifeform:	so he picks today's, say. and so what if he needs entire year to come up with an orphanator for it. a year from now -- he can feed it to 'in a cave' victims.	[13:32]
asciilifeform:	and they WILL eat.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu:	there is no provision made to rescue the node that can be stuffed in dark alley	[13:32]
mircea_popescu:	just like woman who permits this deserves all the cum she gets.	[13:32]
asciilifeform:	afaik it remains to be seen if the 'dark alley' can ever be ruled out.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu:	that has ~nothing to do.\	[13:32]
asciilifeform:	(or rather, whether there can be such a thing as a mechanical test for 'am i in an alley')	[13:33]
mircea_popescu:	there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law	[13:33]
mircea_popescu:	anyway checkpoint does exactly nothing to solve the problem. it is more in the same vein of feel good cure, like "mace" spray.	[13:33]
asciilifeform:	quite possibly	[13:34]
mircea_popescu:	except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.	[13:34]
asciilifeform:	incidentally, recall the blockchain-in-maskrom ?	[13:34]
mircea_popescu:	well not yet anyway.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu:	aha.	[13:34]
asciilifeform:	at what point can one produce the rom ?	[13:34]
asciilifeform:	if 'any' block is theoretically subject to revision.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu:	once bitcoin's finished.	[13:35]
asciilifeform:	and of what use it'd be then	[13:35]
mircea_popescu:	exactly.	[13:35]
asciilifeform:	it still isn't clear to me what'd be lost by considering, e.g., blocks that happened a proper, physical year ago, not-in-rom.	[13:36]
asciilifeform:	or rather, in rom	[13:36]
mircea_popescu:	anywya, getting back to mats ' thing, i find it truly amazingthat the ustards actually have the unmitigated audacity to try and rhodesia turkey.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform nothing, really.	[13:36]
asciilifeform:	well theoretically it does violate the 'thou shalt neither add, nor subtract' thing	[13:37]
mircea_popescu:	how you store the blockchain is your decision	[13:38]
mircea_popescu:	it being your node.	[13:38]
asciilifeform:	yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.	[13:38]
mats:	i wonder what excitement is left in the days remaining to current potus	[13:38]
mats:	stir the shit-pot real good, mebbe disrupt .ru-.tr-.ir talks	[13:39]
mircea_popescu:	yeah srsly.	[13:39]
mircea_popescu:	the stakes are pretty high, us itself is trying to pivot to an ir middle east. doesn't look like they have enough non-retards in the whole foreign service to pull it off, but hey.	[13:40]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585879 << mats, lemme get this straight, i'm supposed to believe that obummer DIDN'T sign off on every round in that pistol? and exactly why?	[13:41]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform	[13:41]
asciilifeform:	from whence this 'presumption of innocence' for usg scum.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu:	it's certainly an us assassination job.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu:	i dun think anyone disputes that.	[13:41]
mats:	is your joke-bit still flipped to 'off'	[13:42]
mircea_popescu:	if you're even vaguely familiar with the victim it's pretty evident.	[13:42]
asciilifeform:	mats: it's flipped to 'spoke with kako in past month' gear, still, takes a while to move it	[13:42]
asciilifeform:	https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2016-12-13_Too_Cool_for_PGP.html << elsewhere in monkeystan	[13:42]
mats:	you, me, might literally be Hitler if we take ourselves too seriously	[13:43]
asciilifeform:	also wtf is 'OpenPGP'	[13:47]
asciilifeform:	(other than the rfc)	[13:47]
asciilifeform:	http://openpgp.org/software <<< aaaah apparently not only koch liquishit but 'here pick from this long list of shitwares, ALL GREAT!111'	[13:48]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr	[13:48]
mircea_popescu:	iers, except maybe one in china sea. at which point obama may or may not launch the nukes.	[13:48]
mircea_popescu:	so actual man made global warming by jan 15th is a respectable 1% or somesuch as it stands right now.	[13:49]
mircea_popescu:	if anyone wants to evacuate to ba i'll get you a place to stay.	[13:50]
asciilifeform:	eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid	[13:50]
asciilifeform:	for 1st time since hitler got his new flat	[13:51]
asciilifeform:	or when.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu:	not really how that game is played. argentina is an entirely agricultural shithole, nukes go after industry.	[13:51]
asciilifeform:	in american grid	[13:51]
asciilifeform:	naturally.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu:	the russkis are prolly going to double-tap anyway owing to fears of "who knows, maybe the dysfunctional shielf works".	[13:52]
mats:	nice knowing you guys	[13:53]
mircea_popescu:	thumbsup	[13:53]
mircea_popescu:	would tmsr again.	[13:54]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2016/12/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-assasinated/ << Qntra - Russian Ambassador To Turkey Assasinated	[13:54]
BingoBoingo:	<a111> Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform << Qntra is available	[13:55]
mircea_popescu:	BingoBoingo Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş	[13:56]
mircea_popescu:	the turks released dataz.	[13:56]
BingoBoingo:	ty	[13:57]
BingoBoingo:	fxd	[13:58]
mircea_popescu:	uh he's in custody.	[13:58]
BingoBoingo:	fxd again	[13:59]
asciilifeform:	https://archive.is/fP5Ce >> 'Trump’s insistence on channeling Putin’s propaganda may reflect a more permanent and creepier mindset that refuses to see Russia as a foe of the West. If the latter, how far will this go — blocking sanctions? Acceding to Russian aggression? The suspicion that Trump is Putin’s lapdog has cast a shadow over his secretary of state nominee, who is distinguished only by his chumminess with Putin.' << t	[14:00]
asciilifeform:	he 'national security' caste is shitting bricks	[14:00]
mircea_popescu:	BingoBoingo that members of various the various states' college of electors < since we're on it	[14:00]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform aha.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu:	but the truth is, this is perfect time for trump to rid himself of the best and brightest of the "progressive" nigger set.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu:	have the russians shoot them.	[14:01]
* mircea_popescu	recalls roman emperor who did this exact thing, had an uncharacteristically smooth rule thereafter.	[14:01]
BingoBoingo:	fxd x3	[14:01]
asciilifeform:	his obummeristic majesty sits on throne for another month.	[14:02]
mircea_popescu:	this matters less than you'd think.	[14:02]
BingoBoingo:	How many days did it take te world to got to shit following Franz Ferdinand?	[14:03]
mircea_popescu:	the sad truth of the matter is that the us has spent the past few decades giving most initiative away. the fate of the world is not significantly decided in washington at the present time.	[14:03]
mircea_popescu:	the ~entire thing is just how much the chinese want to and can convince the russians that significant and sufficiently humilatory concessions will be forced out of the us side so they forego actually taking scalps.	[14:03]
mircea_popescu:	and as per http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.	[14:06]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: the death of the 'fat consumer' system is not optional, it's an exponential/runaway growth hallucinatory nonsense. the lizard deindustrialization program is in re the ~controlled demolition~ of same.	[14:10]
asciilifeform:	such that the bricks fall on designated untermenschen when possible.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu:	this is the most generous interpretation.	[14:11]
asciilifeform:	let's have the less generous one? for education	[14:12]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.	[14:13]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform the less generous one is as set out in "apple could buy russia"	[14:13]
asciilifeform:	'apple' already tried to 'buy russia' in '41.	[14:13]
asciilifeform:	it'll try again, again, why not, why should, from its pov, dirty orcs lord over 200-300 additional years of nonrenewables.	[14:14]
mircea_popescu:	we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.	[14:14]
mircea_popescu:	be that all it may, the ~correct~ reaction is strictly http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-133.333-133.381	[14:15]
mircea_popescu:	deindustrialization dun enter into this de-"personalization" as personhood is currently misrepresented in the west however - does.	[14:16]
asciilifeform:	meanwhile, 'An Army major general has been stripped of his stars and forced out of the military after a 30-year military career because of a long extramarital affair and "swinger" lifestyle. An Army spokesman says Maj. Gen. David Haight was demoted by three steps to the rank of lieutenant colonel, a steep and rare downgrade for a senior officer. The demotion will cost him more than $40,000 in annual retirement pay, based on pay scale	[14:16]
asciilifeform:	s for a lieutenant colonel and a two-star general with 30 years in the Army. And it slams the door on what was once a promising career. Army Secretary Eric Fanning approved the board's recommendation and made the final decision. The spokesman was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke anonymously.'	[14:16]
mircea_popescu:	who the fuck cares who some guy fucks ffs.	[14:17]
asciilifeform:	evidently d00d drank a bit too much, dropped some loose lips re heiling tritler or such.	[14:17]
asciilifeform:	nobody cares until 'must have problems'	[14:18]
mircea_popescu:	http://christianfighterpilot.com/2016/08/29/army-major-general-david-haight-fired-for-who-he-loves/ << of course trump can undo it :)	[14:18]
asciilifeform:	in other monkeystans, 'Joanna Palani, a 23-year-old Danish woman, was facing a 6-month prison sentence after fighting alongside Kurdish peshmerga forces in Iraq and Syria, The Local reported. Palani had her passport confiscated last year after she returned to Denmark, and was hit with a one-year travel ban, for violating the nation's so-called "foreign fighter" rules. The regulations were aimed at stopping Danish citizens from joinin	[14:26]
asciilifeform:	g terror groups, but could punish people who fight on the other side, according to analysts. ... “How can I pose a threat to Denmark and other countries by being a soldier in an official army that Denmark trains and supports directly in the fight against the Islamic State?” she wrote on Facebook after officials took her passport. The potential 6-month prison sentence stems from the travel ban violation. Palani admitted to traveli	[14:26]
asciilifeform:	ng to Qatar in June and was detained last week...'	[14:26]
davout:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585962 <<< in this case there's quite a few other ways in which the can fuck you	[14:26]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 18:38 asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.	[14:26]
asciilifeform:	davout: besides the point	[14:26]
mircea_popescu:	notrly.	[14:27]
asciilifeform:	davout: see the mitm point further down in the thread. a ~simulated~ yottahash is just as good for the purpose.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu:	one who comes with magical unicorn alternative can not thereby pretend to invalidate the rest of the magical unicorn implications.	[14:27]
asciilifeform:	it isn't magical in any sense, you and i can do it right now -- e.g., mine an alternate block #300,000 and feed it to a cornered node.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu:	the cornering is magical.	[14:28]
davout:	asciilifeform: bitcoin makes no guarantees that you'll be fine if all your peers are compromised	[14:28]
mircea_popescu:	yes, i'm aware various magicks are readily transmutable.	[14:28]
ben_vulpes:	davout: this is the 'sybil' thread, yes?	[14:28]
asciilifeform:	show me the guaranteed noncornered node.	[14:28]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform you proceed from this very strange place. nobody owes you any guarantees.	[14:28]
mircea_popescu:	nor can you extract guarantees. there's no guarantee stamped on gravitaqtion iether.	[14:29]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: dunno about you, but my nodes are blackholed more often than not.	[14:29]
asciilifeform:	and i have nfi what, if anything , is to be done about it.	[14:29]
davout:	ben_vulpes: today's thread?	[14:29]
mircea_popescu:	your life, in ALL its respects - !!!!IMPORTANT!!! NOT IN SOME RESPECTS YOU AGREE TO !!!!IMPORTANT!!! - is not certain.	[14:29]
asciilifeform:	noshit	[14:29]
mircea_popescu:	so then what are you talking about.	[14:29]
asciilifeform:	about entirely feasible attack on real-life nodes..?	[14:30]
mircea_popescu:	show me this feasibility.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu:	see, now we have the burden on the right side.	[14:30]
ben_vulpes:	davout: no, ancient one	[14:31]
davout:	ben_vulpes: then no :)	[14:31]
ben_vulpes:	aok	[14:31]
asciilifeform:	it is in re the earlier gedankenexperiment. say trb operators stuck to the 'grandfather's pistol' principle entirely, and kept no record, other than current copy of blockchain, of the past. no checksums, etc.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu:	magical type 3	[14:31]
asciilifeform:	?	[14:32]
mircea_popescu:	listen, randomly transmuting the magical unicorn into magical octopi etc isn't going to work.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu:	i am aware magic readily transmutes.	[14:32]
asciilifeform:	where is the 'magical' ?	[14:32]
mircea_popescu:	in the memorylessness.	[14:32]
asciilifeform:	it's a thought experiment ! of course it contains a counterfactual. no one afaik is dumb enough to actually do this.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu:	but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.	[14:32]
asciilifeform:	which was my only argument - that it would be stupid.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu:	if you do this - you may not anymore deny the other implications of magical unicorn. such as you know, someone eating jam and shitting whole plums.	[14:33]
asciilifeform:	somebody ( ben_vulpes ? ) ~did~ advance the argument that if martian lands and has enough hash, and wants to use it to orphan block # 2, he ought to be able to and we ought to live with the result, iirc.	[14:34]
mircea_popescu:	that's broadly the idea - "mommy, what should i do if johnny wants to plug my virgin ass ?" "don't let him ?" "what if i can't ?" "you can" "what if magical alien from afar comes and he has magical powers and i really can't ?" "oh, no, HIM you spread for."	[14:36]
asciilifeform:	as i understand, mircea_popescu objects , that this is an imaginary solution to the quadratic, that there is no physically plausible scenario that follows this path.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu:	this whole "humans are inferior aliens come but humans still manage to somehow" is rank nonsense, not how things play out, nor how things should play out, nor how anyone wants them to play out.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform no, i complain that you construct a problem that necessarily may not have a solution.	[14:38]
ben_vulpes:	aight so i can drop checkpoints.cpp then?	[14:38]
asciilifeform:	well yes, in the literal martian scenario, 'what do i do if a shell hits my trench?' 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around'	[14:38]
mircea_popescu:	ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu:	this is still the correct thing.	[14:38]
ben_vulpes:	ah	[14:38]
ben_vulpes:	i recall now	[14:38]
mircea_popescu:	let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.	[14:38]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: add '--solipsist' and be done with it..?	[14:38]
asciilifeform:	or mircea_popescu's method.	[14:39]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: checkpoints.cpp really grates	[14:39]
asciilifeform:	(except fuck the idiot blockheaders thing! hash entire fucking blocks)	[14:39]
mircea_popescu:	yes.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu:	it should be implemented as full block hashes.	[14:39]
asciilifeform:	the 'headers' thing is abominable.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu:	even that aside - there's no "propagation" excuse in this usecase.	[14:40]
asciilifeform:	and it is quite regrettable imho that it cannot be entirely bulldozed in bitcoin as it is.	[14:40]
mircea_popescu:	don't sweat it alf, eventually there will be a fork.	[14:40]
davout:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586084 <<< "show user checksums on demand so he can burn the system down if it doesn't match" sounds sufficient to me	[14:42]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.	[14:42]
trinque:	isn't this another http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578431	[14:42]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	^	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	sorta where i wanted to go with 'shiva', gimme a console	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	where i can query ALL state	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	of running node.	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	every single fucking flag, variable, whatever.	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	if i want to know where tx # .... is --- let's have it.	[14:42]
asciilifeform:	none of this 'last six digits' nonsense.	[14:43]
mircea_popescu:	also works.	[14:43]
asciilifeform:	if i want to flush the mempool, ditto.	[14:43]
asciilifeform:	flush motherfucking mempool.	[14:43]
davout:	asciilifeform: have you tried bitcoin-ruby?	[14:43]
* davout	ducks	[14:43]
mircea_popescu:	lol	[14:43]
asciilifeform:	none of this ~everything-linked-to-everything~ tumour mass plox.	[14:43]
asciilifeform:	davout: what's it do	[14:43]
asciilifeform:	davout: chances are there is a crackpot pseudoimplementation of bitcoin in every language, cobol, malbolge, befunge, by this point. they are of 0 interest because not trb !	[14:44]
asciilifeform:	why would i give half a fuck what some rando thinks bitcoin is !	[14:44]
asciilifeform:	(or worse: wants me to think that it is!)	[14:45]
trinque:	davout: troll not the poar alf	[14:45]
asciilifeform:	nah but srsly as if i did not know about crackpot clients	[14:45]
asciilifeform:	iirc there was even a ~decent one (as far as anyone could tell) in python, in 2012	[14:45]
asciilifeform:	and another in some proprietary D-like language used at google	[14:45]
asciilifeform:	and possibly else.	[14:46]
davout:	these were 'decent' ?	[14:46]
asciilifeform:	there was a curated list of these at one time	[14:46]
* trinque	ran the golang one for a long time	[14:46]
asciilifeform:	davout: 'decent' in the sense of having no ~obvious~ catastrophic bomb	[14:46]
trinque:	worked fine I move deedbot to trb to lean on trb	[14:46]
trinque:	*moved	[14:46]
davout:	asciilifeform: aha, like 'a decent thai whore' ?	[14:47]
asciilifeform:	exactly as.	[14:47]
asciilifeform:	it is the sad peculiarity of life of the programmer that a proggy 'works perfectly' -- until not	[14:47]
davout:	it's by no means peculiar	[14:47]
mircea_popescu:	wife, same.	[14:48]
davout:	an airplane flies until it doesn't	[14:48]
trinque:	my arse, also.	[14:48]
asciilifeform:	davout: i recently enjoyed a very old b00k on pilot mistakes	[14:48]
asciilifeform:	was quite enlightening.	[14:48]
mircea_popescu:	i recently enjoyed a very credible thai whore. it was quite unsettling i never felt so much like i'm fucking a little boy in my life.	[14:49]
davout:	'human factors' is a thing	[14:49]
asciilifeform:	programming would perhaps be a similarly honourable profession as piloting, with similar calibre of people, if only it were possible to kill yourself just as easily with mistreated computer as with airplane.	[14:50]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: ergonomics!11111	[14:50]
trinque:	speaking of killing yourself, the db design for trb deserves long thought	[14:50]
mircea_popescu:	what ergonomics ?!	[14:50]
trinque:	there are endless abominations that can arise on that path otherwise	[14:50]
mircea_popescu:	trinque aha.	[14:50]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: you wouldn't sit in a kindergartener's chair, wouldja	[14:50]
mircea_popescu:	kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.	[14:50]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform hm i hadn't considered this. you mean the tiny girls are for tiny guys ?	[14:51]
davout:	asciilifeform: i'm interested in the title	[14:51]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the dimensional tolerance is , in practice.	[14:51]
asciilifeform:	but the 'boy' comment suggests that it is finite.	[14:51]
mircea_popescu:	and i have nfi how anyone fucks these 100lb, tits smaller than mine twists. anyway.	[14:52]
davout:	trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?	[14:52]
asciilifeform:	davout: 'Вам - взлет!' (Анатолий Маркович Маркуша.) it's a childrenz' b00k	[14:52]
mircea_popescu:	davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.	[14:52]
asciilifeform:	davout: about, yes, piloting. with, yes, how pilots die.	[14:53]
trinque:	davout: ad hoc crapping together database features as needed gets you the last round of idiot fad databases	[14:53]
trinque:	mongo et al	[14:53]
trinque:	one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...	[14:53]
davout:	trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"	[14:54]
mircea_popescu:	holy fuck no.	[14:54]
asciilifeform:	trinque: it is not clear that any feature set aside from 'get anything by anything-else in O(NlogN)' is necessary or justified.	[14:54]
trinque:	because I don't always know what the fuck I want!	[14:54]
trinque:	just predicates I want to apply	[14:55]
asciilifeform:	and guess where THIS IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED	[14:55]
asciilifeform:	:	[14:55]
asciilifeform:	your disk fs !	[14:55]
asciilifeform:	any of'em. even ext3.	[14:55]
trinque:	I could not disagree more	[14:55]
davout:	if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?	[14:55]
mircea_popescu:	me repeats bitcoinfs in his corner.	[14:55]
trinque:	davout: apparently so	[14:55]
asciilifeform:	trinque: what can, e.g., reiserfs, not do, that you need done to your tx index ?	[14:55]
mircea_popescu:	davout the objection, to be clear, is that too much maintenance. that's the true cost here.	[14:55]
davout:	what's "too much" ?	[14:56]
asciilifeform:	the mega-win from 'use files on disk, in directories' is that i can explore the index with sed, grep, etc.	[14:56]
asciilifeform:	instead of relying on gigantic binary turd and dedicated toolset.	[14:56]
trinque:	please to not argue against things I have not said.	[14:56]
asciilifeform:	(does anyone understand why i put, e.g., 'v', together, the way i did? or the lamportron?)	[14:57]
davout:	asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?	[14:57]
trinque:	the relational model is not impossible to implement	[14:57]
asciilifeform:	trinque: i promise not to argue until you say exactly what needs doing that cannot be done with stock fs	[14:57]
trinque:	I didn't say link sqlite	[14:57]
mircea_popescu:	davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact	[14:57]
mircea_popescu:	you add 50 hours of b, so you made a very bad trade-off.	[14:57]
asciilifeform:	davout: not dedicated. and arguably if you're using an os 1000 yrs from now that doesn't have exact equivalents of these tools, you have serious problems	[14:57]
trinque:	asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain	[14:57]
mircea_popescu:	in the case of most modern bright minds, b is "hidden" under the rug and so they don't think correctly about their environment	[14:58]
trinque:	or I go cache it somewhere and that is stupid	[14:58]
asciilifeform:	trinque: this is a physical impossibility	[14:58]
asciilifeform:	of course you can't do it!	[14:58]
trinque:	that is a trivial SQL query over transactions	[14:58]
mircea_popescu:	which is why no english-speaking, quora-and-stackexchange, wikipedia-and-tedtalk "entrepreneur" can create value.	[14:58]
asciilifeform:	trinque: it's still O(N)	[14:58]
asciilifeform:	think for a minute	[14:58]
asciilifeform:	how could it not be	[14:58]
trinque:	again, do not argue against what I have not said!	[14:58]
trinque:	you will implement indexes yourself, and so on	[14:59]
mircea_popescu:	trinque if you manage to get alf to not do that, let me know what you did.	[14:59]
trinque:	and then vast mountain of already researched space put together poorly	[14:59]
asciilifeform:	trinque: it remains O(N), and yes, you can reduce your N, but you traded away correctness for speed.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586179 << certainly not i can read sed.	[14:59]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?	[14:59]
asciilifeform:	a full, canonical 'how much is this addr worth' requires O(N) chain walk.	[14:59]
asciilifeform:	always will.	[14:59]
trinque:	not if you have a reliable index that can find every reference to that address	[15:00]
asciilifeform:	trinque: if you write how to do this, i give you my word that i will read .	[15:00]
mircea_popescu:	trinque you will have to store NlogN data and n is like tb	[15:00]
asciilifeform:	and answer cannot be 'sql command'	[15:01]
asciilifeform:	i meant - ~algorithmically~ how.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc 10*12 log(10**12)	[15:01]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: 10*12 log(10**12) = 1.1999999999999998E13	[15:01]
mircea_popescu:	lulzy.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc 10*12 ln(10**12)	[15:02]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: 10*12 ln(10**12) = 2.7631021115928547E13	[15:02]
mircea_popescu:	somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.	[15:02]
davout:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586183 <<< are you saying that relational storage is nice, but has the high indexing cost? or am i completely amiss?	[15:02]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact	[15:02]
asciilifeform:	btw, p=?=np esoterica aside, 'never say never' in re algorithmic complexities. it is possible to make a number-theoretic 'blockchain' where you check for unspentness by euclid's gcd, for instance. many things are theoretically possible. but this thread afaik is about traditional bitcoin.	[15:03]
mircea_popescu:	davout completely amiss. if you try to rubify this, you will end up with the kubinetes situation. "nobody knows how this works".	[15:03]
trinque:	I would not create indices for every transaction	[15:03]
trinque:	I'd have it run along indexing mine	[15:03]
mircea_popescu:	the reason we want ~one~ is that we don't want to find we can't maintain two.	[15:03]
trinque:	-or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this	[15:03]
mircea_popescu:	trinque my comment is re a more general case, not just txn, because i am confident you'll end up stuck with a more general problem in practice.	[15:03]
trinque:	reasonable	[15:03]
mircea_popescu:	the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./	[15:04]
davout:	aok, you were referring to the 'pluggable' part, not the 'relational' part	[15:04]
mircea_popescu:	davout aye verily.	[15:04]
mircea_popescu:	this is the very important point here - every feature in the toolchain makes programming easier but ~everything else~ (generally here referred to "fit in head" but easily expanded to writing correct tests, maintaining, even KNOWING WHAT BLEW UP when something blows up!) much much harder	[15:06]
mircea_popescu:	and the differential is in fact so immense and not even linear, that restrained toolset is huge gain.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu:	in spite of making first-pass coding utter pain.	[15:06]
asciilifeform:	the algo where you 'wallet' by keeping privkey AND index-of-last-block-where-this-addr-was-input-or-output are kept around, works until , in 'typical human' fashion, [l]user asks for 'fried ice', and wants MOAR, e.g., 'oooh i found a privkey in my underpants drawer, how much is it worth' or 'i want to keep priv on 2+ boxes' or, or.	[15:07]
mircea_popescu:	and that's just scratching the tipsurface.	[15:07]
asciilifeform:	well yes.	[15:07]
asciilifeform:	simplest example that ~everyone is personally familiar with.	[15:08]
mircea_popescu:	ayup.	[15:08]
davout:	a valuable advantage of relational storage is that the user decides what to index	[15:08]
asciilifeform:	davout: in point of fact you can decide on fs also	[15:08]
davout:	"want to import arbitrary keys? cost 5tb of index"	[15:08]
asciilifeform:	by choosing a different fs to plant the thing on	[15:08]
mircea_popescu:	the problem with this is that it's not really open to his decision. see something like "user decides what checksum" is eminently user-able.	[15:08]
mircea_popescu:	but "what to index" is like "user decides when to breathe"	[15:09]
asciilifeform:	having the db hardlinked in bitcoin is lunacy	[15:09]
mircea_popescu:	noty.	[15:09]
asciilifeform:	it does not belong in there.	[15:09]
asciilifeform:	how to arrange bytes on hdd, is why we even tolerate the misery of having an os, to begin with.	[15:09]
asciilifeform:	so that different proggies can use same disk turds.	[15:09]
asciilifeform:	for entirely different, and unplanned, things.	[15:09]
davout:	hence pluggable interface	[15:10]
mircea_popescu:	this much is true. it's also not really the part in dispute.	[15:10]
asciilifeform:	davout: pluggable ~without bitcoin having to know about it~ is the key.	[15:10]
davout:	sure, no argument here!	[15:10]
trinque:	this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things I would call it a db.	[15:10]
trinque:	it's just a question of how much OS you want to eat, and all is a fine answer	[15:10]
mircea_popescu:	and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu:	trinque not only that, but anything other than all is kinda indefensible in practice.	[15:12]
asciilifeform:	the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.)	[15:12]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform bitcoinfs ends up with bitcoin-hdd-firmware.	[15:12]
asciilifeform:	if it must -- it will.	[15:14]
mircea_popescu:	the expectation ot make an os and not have to write drivers is the sweet sort of innocence usually reserved for coed sluts.	[15:15]
asciilifeform:	not same as hdd fw omfg	[15:15]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu:	writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.	[15:16]
asciilifeform:	btw if anyone can come up with a WORKING 'crab' (realtek) nic driver in pure long mode asm, we can have, e.g., scheme on iron, and usefully so, in a couplea weeks.	[15:16]
asciilifeform:	i wasted... dun even care to say how long. on this chore.	[15:17]
asciilifeform:	with 0 result.	[15:17]
mircea_popescu:	didja ask the finn ?	[15:17]
davout:	i'm still not convinced that the relational approach is not the correct one, as far as an arbitrary inspectable DB is required	[15:17]
mircea_popescu:	how would you be convinced ?	[15:18]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: most folks run for the hills when i say 'yes in asm, and no you don't get to use any existing code'	[15:18]
trinque:	davout: idea is that these querying tools could as well use reiserfs or another as the "disk data format"	[15:18]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform but did you ask the fin.	[15:18]
asciilifeform:	and i'm pretty sure it came up when the finn was here. he vanished.	[15:18]
trinque:	as say pg has whatever it shits into /var/lib/postgresql/data	[15:18]
mircea_popescu:	dude...	[15:18]
mircea_popescu:	ask the fucking fin.	[15:18]
asciilifeform:	how am i to ask him, lol, he disappeared.	[15:18]
mircea_popescu:	he left an email or something iirc.	[15:18]
* asciilifeform	digs for d00d's mailbox.	[15:18]
mircea_popescu:	but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".	[15:19]
davout:	did we just add tmsr-db on the todo?	[15:20]
asciilifeform:	btw i dug out, long ago, a crackpot implementation in one 'baremetal os' (actual title) of supposedly-it. it dun work on any actual iron i was able to buy.	[15:20]
mircea_popescu:	was there since long ago.	[15:20]
asciilifeform:	and i bought a dozen cards of various vintage.	[15:20]
davout:	right	[15:20]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	so they are of 0 interest to me.	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	(e.g., the one in linux. or bsd. or mac.)	[15:21]
mircea_popescu:	more or less.	[15:21]
mircea_popescu:	hence my comment re fw above.	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	i studied the one in coreboot	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	it ALSO DOES	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	yes, the pxe boot rom.	[15:21]
mircea_popescu:	it would.	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	has whole motherfucking os.	[15:21]
asciilifeform:	megatonne of 'idiomatic c'	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	rubbish.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu:	think for a moment what immense pile of varying switches the other approach would be like.	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	it'd be a few 100 lines of asm	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	particular, yes, to the card.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu:	to work on all the consumer	[15:22]
mircea_popescu:	right. lol. not what coreboot tries to do.	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	i actually got hold of msdos driver	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	for netware.	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	believe or not, for a card made in 2011.	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	it was the closest thing to what i want.	[15:22]
asciilifeform:	now must reverse it. will take a while, and only can even begin when hands again are free to do this	[15:23]
asciilifeform:	(and when?!)	[15:23]
asciilifeform:	it is in, yes, 16bit asm.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu:	heh	[15:24]
asciilifeform:	one problem with asciilifeform in particular is that his patience with x86 crapola has become very short	[15:24]
asciilifeform:	a younger d00d like, e.g., trinque , might get more result.	[15:24]
trinque:	this younger dood already has a pile of ppc	[15:24]
trinque:	:p	[15:25]
asciilifeform:	well it doesn't have to be trinque .	[15:25]
trinque:	but yes, am learning amd64 asm currently.	[15:25]
asciilifeform:	but somebody who isn't walking with years of radiation damage from reversing x86 for money.	[15:25]
mircea_popescu:	we need moar younger... actually , moar younger women plox.	[15:25]
asciilifeform:	^	[15:25]
asciilifeform:	trinque: if it isn't megaseekrit, where'dya get a hold of a ppc ?	[15:25]
asciilifeform:	or is this a vintage box	[15:26]
trinque:	loads on ebay	[15:26]
asciilifeform:	aaah	[15:26]
trinque:	I've been buying lots of mac mini g4	[15:26]
asciilifeform:	neato	[15:26]
asciilifeform:	for a while, local uni surplus here was selling g5 monsters (big iron things) by the pound	[15:26]
asciilifeform:	boxes that cost 3-4k usd new, in mid 2000s, going for pennies	[15:26]
asciilifeform:	(crapple dropped all support)	[15:27]
trinque:	yeah, I've got one of those guys sitting here too	[15:27]
trinque:	and an xserve on the way	[15:27]
asciilifeform:	neato	[15:27]
asciilifeform:	pick up some old sgi iron, if doing this, it has even better bang/buck ratio	[15:27]
asciilifeform:	i saw an 'origin' sold once, for price of scrap, and it worked	[15:27]
trinque:	kk	[15:28]
asciilifeform:	of course this all comes with a very real risk of turning into theo de raadt and moving into a cave, muttering, wearing hair shirts, sleeping in coffin	[15:28]
asciilifeform:	but perhaps -- worth it	[15:28]
mircea_popescu:	teh republic will have to commit to in some manner providing lifeline for above.	[15:29]
mircea_popescu:	because there's no functioning religion without a strong ascetic line.	[15:29]
asciilifeform:	i will send potatoes! and old microchannel NICs!!111	[15:29]
trinque:	lel	[15:30]
asciilifeform:	(pretty sure i ~still~ have 1 or 2...)	[15:30]
* mircea_popescu	is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.	[15:30]
asciilifeform:	i have 2 dec alphas that are available to my l1 for cost of postage.	[15:31]
trinque:	huh, maybe I start an armory :)	[15:31]
asciilifeform:	if anyone needs.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu:	trinque i am saying - depending on exactly what one's life goals etc are running a warehouse full of old iron bought on the cheap is a very reasonable lifestyle choice.	[15:31]
asciilifeform:	(both, iirc, circa '04 or so)	[15:31]
davout:	computer sommelier position still not filled	[15:32]
mircea_popescu:	certainly a LOT more saner than "prepper" idiots storing canned food etc.	[15:32]
mircea_popescu:	THAT's what im gonnafucking want, canned peaches. ffs.	[15:32]
* trinque	will have a monthly buy of this and similar till doomsday	[15:33]
trinque:	*til	[15:33]
asciilifeform:	davout: there can be >1. in fact, if we're ever down to 1, it is trouble.	[15:33]
trinque:	what am I going to do, buy fucking US stocks?	[15:33]
mircea_popescu:	ikr.	[15:33]
* trinque	has at least two phrases branded on his mind by the republic	[15:34]
trinque:	"You could've been better anywhere else."	[15:34]
trinque:	and "cannot be had for any price"	[15:34]
mircea_popescu:	heh. i can see it.	[15:35]
mircea_popescu:	https://archive.is/dfGeO#selection-224.0-243.15 << lulziest fucking shit	[15:39]
mircea_popescu:	also an ~incredible~ point in case of how ustardian brain damage actually works. the very idiots that advertise captcha breaking... use captcha!	[15:40]
asciilifeform:	i think that is the longest list of spampaypals-and-demonstratively-not-bitcoin i've seen since 2009.	[15:53]
* asciilifeform	read it several times, thinking 'probably missed it...', and.	[15:53]
asciilifeform:	dafuq is, e.g., 'giropay'	[15:53]
asciilifeform:	or 'pay-easy'	[15:53]
asciilifeform:	or the dozen hieroglyphic crapolades.	[15:54]
asciilifeform:	what is a 'weemoney' ?	[15:54]
asciilifeform:	pay with jars of piss ?	[15:54]
asciilifeform:	(or was it a 'b')	[15:54]
asciilifeform:	who has heard of 'bleue' ? can pronounce without gagging?	[15:55]
* asciilifeform	reads on, in sidebar, 'Dec 13: For your Bitcoin payments, remember that we need the Coinbase transaction ID in order to track your deposit. We encourage you to write down that ID to avoid delays in your Bitcoin payment processing. Thanks for your comprehension.'	[15:55]
asciilifeform:	they take ~only~ coinbase?!	[15:55]
trinque:	http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-truck-idUSKBN148287 << moar bowling for cucks	[15:57]
mircea_popescu:	lol	[16:09]
shinohai:	When your security track record is so bad, you can't even secure your forums: http://archive.is/2nvH2	[16:51]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2016/12/german-truck-attack-stikes-market-in-front-of-kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church/ << Qntra - German Truck Attack Strikes Market In Front Of Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church	[16:52]
mircea_popescu:	lol	[16:56]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2016/12/adobe-releases-first-linux-flash-player-update-in-4-years/ << Qntra - Adobe Releases First Linux Flash Player Update In 4 Years	[17:02]
ben_vulpes:	entirely unrelatedly to anything else, does trb's `getmemorypool' actually work?	[17:30]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: i, for one, do not know the answer	[17:52]
ben_vulpes:	i think that i just crashed my node asking for the memory pool.	[17:53]
ben_vulpes:	either that or blackhole?	[17:54]
asciilifeform:	post log?	[17:55]
asciilifeform:	in other lulz, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YmlTD/?raw=true	[17:57]
asciilifeform:	^ obscure box with ssh on nonstandard port	[17:57]
asciilifeform:	persistent little bugger.	[17:57]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: will	[17:59]
* danielpbarron	is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342	[18:08]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 20:30 mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.	[18:08]
pete_dushenski:	hanbot: right you are, my dear. thank you for being the proverbial alert reader! 2016 year-in-review now updated to include resolution of courts circus competition.	[18:20]
pete_dushenski:	shinohai: l0l!!	[18:22]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2016/12/president-elect-trump-passes-270-votes-in-state-electoral-colleges-is-once-again-president-elect/ << Qntra - President Elect Trump Passes 270 Votes In State Electoral Colleges, Is Once Again President Elect	[18:23]
danielpbarron:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working	[18:23]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.	[18:23]
asciilifeform:	danielpbarron: doesn't force-load either ?	[18:25]
asciilifeform:	(standard linux kernel won't load mods that aren't versioned for it. unless 'forced')	[18:25]
danielpbarron:	from my very limited understanding, something was changed in the kernel that the driver was expecting to be there	[18:26]
danielpbarron:	something about symbols	[18:26]
asciilifeform:	something other than version?	[18:26]
asciilifeform:	or hm, lemme guess, MTRR	[18:28]
asciilifeform:	( http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=2baa891e42d84159b693eadd44f6fe1486285bdc )	[18:28]
danielpbarron:	that sounds familiar	[18:28]
danielpbarron:	4.1.35-gentoo is what i had to go back to	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	in recent orlolz, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/12/brain-parasite-gonna-eatcha.html	[18:59]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586388 << ideally more of a lend-lease sort of deal than simply warehousing the parts though.	[19:50]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 23:08 danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342	[19:50]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586393 << this is actuyally a very valid complaint i'm not necessarily proposing the finn's right.	[19:51]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-19 23:23 danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working	[19:51]
mircea_popescu:	random fun fact : no matter how you turn the ~50bn worth of us resources & materiel shipped to the allies in ww2 into "present day shitollars", it still doesn't come ANYWHERE NEAR what the defeat in the middle east cost.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform the notion that russia was at some point popular in the ukraine is utterly insane. when was this exactly, i don't get it, before or after the muscovy went to space ?	[20:03]
asciilifeform:	which ua	[20:08]
mircea_popescu:	ua.	[20:08]
asciilifeform:	the one full of ukrs? or the other one, that wasn't even any colour of ukr whatsoever until idiot hruschev redrew the map.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu:	you know, the original russians, before the mongols came, flattened them and some random upstarts in some ravine further up north found themselves about in the position of argentina in 1950.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu:	well he says ukraine, i don't imagine he means sevastopol.	[20:09]
asciilifeform:	these expired some time around ivan 4.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu:	(obviously what he's trying to do is speculate the cluelessness of english speakers, but whatever, we already know the guy's an utter shithead.)	[20:09]
danielpbarron:	mircea_popescu, what do you mean lend-lease?	[20:15]
mircea_popescu:	danielpbarron i mean that if some guy who is actively developing for some iron is shying away from buying a piece because he only has part of the money i'd consider cutting a deal.	[20:16]
mircea_popescu:	especially if a) the piece is actually useful as opposed to curio and b) it's being sold for scrap by the imperial idiots.	[20:17]
asciilifeform:	though i can think of a few exceptions ( transport for, e.g., cray, or connection machine - and yes, i knew a d00d whi bought connection machine! is not easy or cheap ) -- generally old hardware of the interesting sort ( vs everybody's old 386 ) is cheap	[20:23]
asciilifeform:	and in most cases still readily had.	[20:23]
mircea_popescu:	there is no such thing as "cheap" in business.	[20:23]
asciilifeform:	there is 'cheap' in the junk business.	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	which is what subj is	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	and yes, cheap today, unobtainable tomorrow.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu:	no, i mean the kind of cheap you're talking about, "oh, soy is cheap and gold is expensive". volumes scale, soy is sold in the ton and gold in the ounce. there's no "cheap" if it's 20 a pop you bundle 1k together.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu:	"pogo is cheap" no it's not, i'm not buying one.	[20:25]
asciilifeform:	( most famously, smbx lispm was findable for a few hundy during a very brief burst when amex flooded the market with theirs, which had been replaced with java shitware )	[20:25]
mircea_popescu:	that's exactly what i mean. when that happens.	[20:26]
asciilifeform:	'cheap' in the antique comp business means in practice 'everyone who wants, has'. as, e.g., 'commodore 64', vs, say, lispm.	[20:27]
asciilifeform:	no shortage of one while the other showing up on ebay in qty==1 is 'world' news...	[20:28]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1B818C00C15B84948FE638F6B6807D375844F2FFB3CD6F5DE491197ECA2E46E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2396...6649 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.18.75.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.18.75.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown SK KI)	[20:30]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/511D245CC07601CF0039D42DB5CAF4B37B9D40851F889F0A8C126563C0E7C906 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2274...5573 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.124.187.244 (ssh-rsa key from 123.124.187.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown CN 11)	[20:30]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3506CFEBD2F41FA56B9A44F2C08E057D0F546A6D7330DB32905442CF2121BCB5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown MX CHH)	[20:30]
mod6:	<+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice. << there was a whole public discussion on this at the time. and at that point, i backed away from it.	[20:41]
mircea_popescu:	mod6 got al ink ?	[20:44]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3506CFEBD2F41FA56B9A44F2C08E057D0F546A6D7330DB32905442CF2121BCB5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.6.177 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.6.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown MX CHH)	[20:48]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D2ADEF66CA1D7DF8DA07A26BBEE139A66EFEF7D6442471B5BA8512210D1A576F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9973...3887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.17.185 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.17.185 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown MX CHH)	[20:48]
mod6:	<+mircea_popescu> and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs. << aha	[21:00]
mod6:	<+asciilifeform> the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.) << would be great to start experimenting with this in '17	[21:01]
mircea_popescu:	word.	[21:01]
mircea_popescu:	tbh, if the "hdd" is correctly constructed (out of ssds, blockchain is the killer problem for ssds) then it should be so fucking fast...	[21:01]
mircea_popescu:	and no, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with "buy 64 ssd drives and raid them".	[21:02]
mod6:	<+davout> did we just add tmsr-db on the todo? << there is a ticket for this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/trb_tickets.html#6	[21:02]
* asciilifeform	uses ssd raid	[21:03]
asciilifeform:	it's the correct way to use'em	[21:03]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform yes, but a raid controller that is made-for-our-purpose, and part of the whole stack all the way to db...	[21:03]
mod6:	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 got al ink ? << i'll dig it up once im caught up here...	[21:04]
mircea_popescu:	kk	[21:04]
asciilifeform:	worx even with ancient controllers.	[21:04]
mircea_popescu:	im sure it does.	[21:04]
mod6:	ok here's one part:	[21:17]
mod6:	http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174421	[21:17]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-24 18:31 mod6: ascii_field: re: checkpoints: the patch worked fine to remove checkpoints, but it was tabled for the time being. the main discussion around this was that it could be helpful to hvae checkpoints in there to prevent spamming of blocks from timestamps before a checkpoint.	[21:17]
mod6:	and it kinda continues from there, so worth a bit of a read	[21:17]
mod6:	which i guess was all in response to alf's question just above: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408	[21:18]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?	[21:18]
mod6:	also, iirc around the same time there was much ado about the wedge @ 168`001 or whatever it was... but that turned out to be the database locking issue.	[21:21]
mircea_popescu:	mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion.	[21:21]
mircea_popescu:	aha.	[21:21]
mod6:	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion. << aha, now i recall. I think the suggestion was that one could, from a config file, turn checkpoints on or off, or add new ones if they wished.	[21:22]
mod6:	lemme see if I can dig that part up too.	[21:23]
mircea_popescu:	well, it was more like "should be exposed to user, WHAT checkpoint to use". ie same as here.	[21:23]
mod6:	yeah. ok, it merits a ticket in the project.	[21:25]
mircea_popescu:	prolly mature enough by now i guess. anyway shouldn't be a huge thing.	[21:25]
mod6:	fair enough.	[21:26]
mod6:	!%help	[21:27]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586446 << i think you mentioned before, but you had some sikrit hardware raid that you were reasonably happy with? i've been doing some cleanup on my data, throwing out old usb drives and such, i've been meaning to replace software raid (which is ... spotty) with something that i don't have to think about	[21:28]
a111:	Logged on 2016-12-20 02:03 asciilifeform uses ssd raid	[21:28]
asciilifeform:	phf: 3ware	[21:28]
phf:	thanks	[21:29]
mod6:	!%a trb F "Configure Checkpoints by Configuration File" "Allow for a user to set a given checkpoint within a configuration file. See discussion: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586436"	[21:29]
mod6:	!%p trb 34	[21:30]
tb0t:	Project: trb, ID: 34, Type: F, Subject: Configure Checkpoints by Configuration File, Antecedents: , Notes: Allow for a user to set a given checkpoint within a configuration file. See discussion: btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586436	[21:30]
mod6:	alright, good enough for the moment.	[21:30]
* mod6	is still working on a public/private project-a-tron, making decent progress.	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	unrelated, and of 'historical' interest, http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/yoke.jpg << first FUCKGOATS slave yoke test, from last week.	[22:02]
asciilifeform:	(the fat connector is a chained jtag for handy simultaneous reflash of both yoked units)	[22:03]
asciilifeform:	the loose-hanging wires - were attached to logic analyzer, which had to visit bench in other room when this pic was taken.	[22:04]
asciilifeform:	btw if anyone knows where one might buy breadboard bigger than this, i'm all ears.	[22:05]
asciilifeform:	afaik they don't exist.	[22:05]
asciilifeform:	in other olds, http://trilema.com/2015/open-parasitic-p2p-relay/#comment-120120 .	[22:36]
mircea_popescu:	o hey.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu:	mod6 nice!	[23:04]
mircea_popescu:	dude check them out they deliver 19k mah out of a 100g package.	[23:10]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: aha, it is lovely, a FUCKGOATS rng board could run for year+ on one.	[23:18]
mircea_popescu:	pretty cool	[23:19]
asciilifeform:	and the bugger runs a-ok at -55C.	[23:19]
asciilifeform:	which afaik no other battery does.	[23:19]
mircea_popescu:	yeah just great.	[23:19]
asciilifeform:	funnily enough, at my first paying jerb i used up dozens of these batteries, electric pipette ran on'em, and i had nfi why they were interesting other than 'bitch to get'	[23:20]
asciilifeform:	(why the 'rainin' pipette ran on them, i have nfi to this very day, ask the french not me)	[23:20]
asciilifeform:	oh huh, looks like mettler toledo bought'em	[23:21]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1B818C00C15B84948FE638F6B6807D375844F2FFB3CD6F5DE491197ECA2E46E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1525...4857 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.18.75.6 (ssh-rsa key from 178.18.75.6 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown SK KI)	[23:32]
deedbot:	http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/511D245CC07601CF0039D42DB5CAF4B37B9D40851F889F0A8C126563C0E7C906 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1354...0297 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '123.124.187.244 (ssh-rsa key from 123.124.187.244 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown CN 11)	[23:32]

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