Forum logs for 18 May 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: << great vintage mircea_popescutronic lul re trb... [00:07]
* mircea_popescu shall read this nao [00:43]
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> Yeah and I see my Qntra mistake now, was hoping BingoBoingo could graciously edit, or I'll send in a rewrite. << fxd [00:44]
mircea_popescu: nb. [00:45]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << omfg now i also wonder what's in bb's tobacco. this insanity coallesced in my head like that iconic cartoon scene of all the clocks going off, except you know... with loud obnoxious two stroke engines. << More noise == More Powah [00:45]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-17 16:02 BingoBoingo: Anyways, prolly ought to convert as many appliances as you can from electric to 2-cycle gas motors because Hitler hates their farts. [00:45]
mircea_popescu: kinda impressive how re-readable trilema is, 3 years later. [00:45]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo by this logic, women and small children have all the powah. [00:46]
mircea_popescu: o wait. [00:46]
BingoBoingo: 'Murica (TM)(R) [00:52]
mircea_popescu: << for the entomologists specifically interested in webhistory. [01:00]
mircea_popescu: (ftr, while "internet brands" is exactly the same shit as interactive corp, it's patently untrue vbulletin was ever anything but a steaming pile of shit.) [01:01]
ben_vulpes: i see kakobrekla fixed the "no loglines no prev/next" bug [01:59]
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Not all Soviet food is created equal. - [03:05]
mircea_popescu: (and in the same vein, etc) [03:30]
shinohai: <<< thx BingoBoingo [08:47]
asciilifeform: holy shit: [09:14]
asciilifeform: phf et al: [09:14]
asciilifeform: l0g is dead... [09:30]
* asciilifeform nostalgic for the days of reliable l0gz [09:30]
mircea_popescu: hey ben_vulpes , would it be possible to move the orig link right under the wotpaste header, and add a home one next to it ? [09:37]
mircea_popescu: << ironically, i read this in the log. i didn't have it in my own scrollback, because freenode is a pos and i lost conn. [09:38]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 13:30 asciilifeform: l0g is dead... [09:38]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was a few hr outage. [09:38]
mircea_popescu: here too. [09:39]
phf: asciilifeform: i'm watching it, i already have an xl1201 though. i might bid on this one for parts, but there's a lot of eyes on it. i wouldn't be surprised if it climbs to 5-7k [09:39]
mircea_popescu: i suspect the nostalgia is a subset of "i long for the days before we started using freenode, and so it wasn't being served gagged supoenas, and so it was almost usable" [09:39]
asciilifeform: lel [09:40]
phf: i'm surprised twenex did an open bid though, guy is notorious for selling smbx boxes for 5k starting price [09:40]
mircea_popescu: i don't suppose anyone else has any competing theory re their "we've been haxxed, report soon to follow. 1,2,3 <crickets>" dog and pony show last year ? [09:40]
asciilifeform: phf: i find it interesting that folks are paying their weight in plutonium considering that emulator exists [09:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is always the 'can't be arsed' theory [09:41]
mircea_popescu: and in other webswamp lulz, "Rara Vintage Hacking computadora Symbolics XL1201 maquina Lispo". [09:41]
mircea_popescu: i suppose i should be fucking thankful they don't use some EGOG charset. [09:41]
asciilifeform: ЕГГОГ !!!11111111111111 [09:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yesofcourse. [09:41]
asciilifeform: and waiwut, you ended up with a .sp ebay or wut [09:42]
mircea_popescu: also how the fuck is $500 weight in plutonium, what is this, my inexistent piercing ? [09:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, same ebay. [09:42]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these climb routinely into 5fig [09:42]
asciilifeform: the number you saw was ~start bid~ [09:42]
asciilifeform: which can be even a penny [09:42]
mircea_popescu: they don't even have the decency to alter the url. (google forcibly redirects you, because WE HAVE THIS FEATURE AND YOU MUST USE IT!!! OBAMACARE!!11) [09:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did they mistranslate "oferta actual" ? [09:42]
phf: yeah, last one i bought for 4100 and twenex was "surprised it went to cheap" [09:43]
phf: *so cheap [09:43]
mircea_popescu: phf he has a point, if you consider that have you saved the money back in 86, put it in apple shares, and then use it to bid now 4k would be what, 3% ? [09:44]
mircea_popescu: weight in plutonium for this item is hereby defined as "in excess of 1mn usd / kg". [09:44]
mircea_popescu: what were they, 35 lbs all told ? [09:44]
asciilifeform: eh i'm only counting the irreplaceable bits [09:44]
asciilifeform: vs the massive steel chest and dc ps [09:44]
asciilifeform: if i had just the 2 boards depicted in the link i'd have the box. [09:45]
mircea_popescu: good luck replacing massive steel. you know what i had to go through to get a suspension hemicile made ? [09:45]
asciilifeform: (1201 used standard scsi disks, note, the owner of that one substituted a modern simulator) [09:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have proper machine toolz here. [09:45]
asciilifeform: and at any rate case is optional. [09:46]
asciilifeform: the backplane is, i think, unibus [09:46]
asciilifeform: (traditional) [09:46]
mircea_popescu: (for the noobs : the suspension hemicicle is a 1.5 rad section of thick steel pipe, curved around a radius of about 4 meters. sits on welded legs made of the same material, 1 rad sections curved around radius of 1 m. it allows you to tie hands and feet of slavegirl, let her suspend for a good fucking, thrasing, or just sunbathing) [09:46]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can't machine this stuff in your garage. [09:47]
asciilifeform: why ever not ? [09:47]
asciilifeform: i mean, we aren't thinking of submarine propeller here [09:47]
mircea_popescu: how are you going to bend it ? [09:47]
asciilifeform: but buncha sheet metal. [09:47]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu never bent sheet metal ? [09:47]
mircea_popescu: it is pipe. [09:47]
asciilifeform: i wouldn't bend pipe. cut, weld. [09:48]
asciilifeform: bending pipe is a bitch [09:48]
mircea_popescu: the spec says pipe. [09:48]
asciilifeform: cut, thread ? [09:48]
mircea_popescu: something like 6 or 8 inch pipe, half cm thick walls [09:48]
mircea_popescu: thread ?! [09:49]
shinohai: <<< /me has used this for pipe bending [09:49]
asciilifeform: at any rate, the device mircea_popescu is describing seems to resemble a standard hammock stand [09:49]
asciilifeform: buy off the shelf ? [09:49]
mircea_popescu: shinohai yeah, but that stops with inch or maybe inch and a half thick. the instrument needed here is the size of alf's house. [09:49]
shinohai: O.o heavy duty! [09:50]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "off the shelf" in argentina means you can have a bottle of water. [09:50]
asciilifeform: i think i have this item here even [09:50]
mircea_popescu: and from what i'm hearing the us is following its socialist destiny towards argentinization. [09:50]
asciilifeform: there is a hammock on it [09:50]
asciilifeform: i bought it in an ordinary plebe shop [09:50]
asciilifeform: it is trapezoidal rather than curved tho [09:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i bet you dollars to donuts you have there some sort of plastic/zamak bs which, if put into serious use, would bend like playdo [09:51]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: steel [09:51]
mircea_popescu: and that's no good either. [09:51]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck make it with angles jesus. [09:51]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so it can be made from pipes which screw in [09:51]
asciilifeform: and whole thing can be transported by 1man [09:51]
mircea_popescu: spec says circle for a reason. [09:51]
asciilifeform: what'd be the reason ? [09:51]
mircea_popescu: avoid injury. what you use the thing for is ... kinda intense. [09:52]
asciilifeform: and why would trapezoid with smooth corners injure ? [09:53]
mircea_popescu: because fittings project [09:53]
asciilifeform: now i would like to see a picture of how this thing is used [09:54]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform think, "one man can transport it" means "you'll end up transporting it with your penis". [09:55]
mircea_popescu: $up Framedragger [09:55]
deedbot: Framedragger voiced for 30 minutes. [09:55]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: transportable in sections [09:55]
Framedragger: notes on here: - comments, anyone? [09:55]
asciilifeform: and it boggles my mind that mircea_popescu had to have this item of furniture machined [09:56]
mircea_popescu: awmaygerd get a blog man. you'll regret not having after years of pastes that went away [09:56]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also this is outdoor item, properly coated pipe is good outside. fittings fucking rust. and on it goes. [09:56]
Framedragger: yeah that is probably true. i didn't think it was worthy of a blog post so to speak, but yeh [09:56]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger blogging essentially is "a valuable collections of items that, on their own, would probably not have been worth it" [09:57]
Framedragger: i guess i can post that text as comment on original blog post [09:57]
mircea_popescu: just like a book. who reads looseleaf pages of novels. [09:57]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger either that or use i don't have whatever that one was whitelisted here. [09:57]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose one day you have to clean blood/shit/piss off your fucking fittings. [09:58]
Framedragger: kthanks [09:58]
asciilifeform: point. strictly stainless in my slaughterhouse plox. [09:58]
mircea_popescu: which you have put a gasket on to keep airtight, now you need a supply of new gaskets... fuck this inept doj style provisioning. [09:58]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fuckhouse and slaughterhouse have a lot in common. i'm at a loss to even distinguish. [09:59]
asciilifeform: l0l [10:00]
mircea_popescu: and the reason i had to have it fucking machined is exactly this, "oh sounds like hammock stand we got that" "bitch, did i say this pos ?!" "oh, it's just as good!" "go make a fucking website somewhere". [10:01]
mircea_popescu: people who don't belong walking in my fucking town. [10:01]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: fwiw, posted as comment on your article, and paste here: - easiest format of responding is probably as a follow-up comment on blog, though.. anyway. i liked the overall idea. [10:06]
mircea_popescu: ty! [10:06]
Framedragger: i wasn't sure whether you intended for there to be a facility to post unencrypted public texts, for example (that is, that there would be a way to not only encrypt text to recipient key or set of keys corresponding to, say, a particular group - but also to post plaintext for meet-and-greet, whatnot). [10:09]
mircea_popescu: im crafting you an answer here, hang on [10:15]
Framedragger: much thanks :) [10:16]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger answered./ i'll be off to town now, but we can continue this discussion once i'm back, feel free to add comments. [10:25]
mircea_popescu: $rate Framedragger 1 old timer [10:26]
mircea_popescu: $rated Framedragger [10:26]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [10:26]
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated Framedragger. [10:26]
mircea_popescu: $v B0EC0DC9BF2E60E7AD0F1B494A5770E8E354E24190122F5066D5CB5D5BB2910A [10:26]
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Framedragger 1 << old timer [10:26]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you can self-voice, pm deedbot $v [10:27]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: great, thank you! will do (i'll be on-and-off today, too) [10:32]
asciilifeform: later tell pete_dushenski [10:43]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [10:43]
asciilifeform: i wish i knew what he's smoking. [10:43]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski, by all appearances, seems to live in a peculiar reaganite fantasy planet where su refugees cream their pants upon tasting delicious american mickeydee, and wax ecstatic while kissing bald eagle in the beak without having to watch out for kgb and no longer having to feed the bear or adjust the vodka level in the house reactor. [10:47]
asciilifeform: (there is, hilariously, another fantasy planet on which su soon-to-be-emigres lived, the one in the '80s vhs tapes. as described in l0gz) [10:48]
asciilifeform: but it is interesting to me, how little the two have in common. [10:49]
BingoBoingo: << lol [11:18]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 14:47 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski, by all appearances, seems to live in a peculiar reaganite fantasy planet where su refugees cream their pants upon tasting delicious american mickeydee, and wax ecstatic while kissing bald eagle in the beak without having to watch out for kgb and no longer having to feed the bear or adjust the vodka level in the house reactor. [11:18]
BingoBoingo: Qntra? "Isis Agora Lovecruft On Run From FBI?" [11:20]
Framedragger: ^ that's a bit incorrect, she's already been living in berlin, but had to visit family etc in US so not really "on the run" [11:22]
Framedragger: s/she's/she'd/ [11:23]
Framedragger: best to just read the original i think: [11:24]
shinohai: Sure, run to Germany. You'll be safe there dove. [11:25]
BingoBoingo: Wait so her, Appelbaum and all the other "exiled" Tor developers are in German? [11:26]
Framedragger: not all [11:27]
Framedragger: but yeh they prefer the hipsta berlin [11:27]
Framedragger: appelbaum and isis and maybe some others [11:27]
BingoBoingo: This screams of credibility washing [11:27]
asciilifeform: it will be truly comedic if it turns out that the performance of the clowns starring in the 'tor is genuine obstacle to usg, really, believe' circus ends up extending to hanging [11:27]
asciilifeform: to 'truly prove' [11:27]
BingoBoingo: For srs [11:28]
Framedragger: i'd just think that they prefer that environment to the other, is all [11:28]
asciilifeform: 'Lovecruft, speaking from Berlin by phone on an encrypted app, still sounds worried....' << gold. [11:29]
Framedragger: is this at all related to the gossipd as proposed on trilema? [11:30]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: absolutely not. [11:31]
Framedragger: this is confusing as it's also some kind of pubsub ( [11:31]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: k gotcha [11:31]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: more generally, 'gossip protocol' is a standard term for a particular type of synchronization, as used in, e.g., sks [11:32]
Framedragger: ahhh. i should have known hence all the names thanks asciilifeform [11:32]
asciilifeform: where two sides exchange, a:'i have x,y,z' b:'i have p,q,y' ..... and a sends b 'x,z', b sends a 'p,q' [11:33]
Framedragger: right. [11:36]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: have you heard of Pond by agl ( - ? it's less for group social chatter and more for one-to-one sorta-ephermeral conversations [11:48]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: yes, shitware. [11:49]
Framedragger: gossipd is more of a federated social chat system i guess [11:49]
Framedragger: why so presumptious? [11:49]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: because golang. [11:49]
asciilifeform: i found that it is a 100% perfect litmus for shitware. [11:49]
Framedragger: well, i too like non-garbage-collected no-bullshit systems languages. but golang is not shit just because it's golang. unless reasons? but maybe you've elaborated on this before.. [11:50]
asciilifeform: and gossipd is considerably more general than a chat, it is to be a complete replacement for tcp/ip and packet switching as ordinarily understood. [11:50]
Framedragger: right, have to read the rfc, ok [11:50]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: anything that uses google's crypto libs is shitware. [11:50]
asciilifeform: this is not negotiable. [11:50]
Framedragger: well, agl is part of chrome security team, so i guess that's one more reason for you to dismiss pond [11:51]
Framedragger: i think that's just stupid, but owell [11:51]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: until you understand why it is the precise opposite of 'just stupid', you will have nothing to do here. [11:52]
Framedragger: k [11:53]
Framedragger: i just think someone may have a hard on for hating X (for good reasons) but not dismiss things produced by X prima facie. then again, i suppose it's a useful heuristic in resource/time scarce universes to do just that :) [12:04]
Framedragger: because who has time [12:05]
asciilifeform: at one point - in fact, until very recently - i would compulsively dig in and, weeks later, would, e.g., 'yet another google turd' [12:08]
asciilifeform: but recently i understood the ~reason~ why it is a waste of time [12:08]
asciilifeform: which is that the ~kind of people~ who produce the rubbish, are always the same [12:08]
Framedragger: have you noted any of those instances on your blog on somewhere? would be an interesting read [12:09]
asciilifeform: noted here. [12:09]
asciilifeform: in the logz. [12:09]
asciilifeform: is the 'somewhere'. [12:10]
Framedragger: kk [12:10]
shinohai: later tell BingoBoingo [12:14]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [12:14]
shinohai: <<< Middle-schooler hacks teacher's email - naturally this is a job for the FBI [12:25]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: two weeks [12:44]
deedbot: [Qntra] LinkedIN Dump Leaked - [13:11]
asciilifeform: later tell mircea_popescu soooo i went through the epic headache of setting up sks server on dulap, only to learn that the thing will not work without blessing from existing sks operators. [14:50]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [14:50]
BingoBoingo: $google "operation avalanche" [16:25]
deedbot: hands you a broomstick. [16:25]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: [16:35]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform define "will not work" ? [16:40]
mircea_popescu: and why'd you install "a server" as distinct from just merging phuctor db ? wtf is this, since when do we credit sks-pr ? [16:41]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wanted a leechatron [16:48]
asciilifeform: that would pull from sks in real time [16:48]
asciilifeform: and stoke phuctor [16:48]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'will not work' means that sks gossip protocol requires blessing on both ends of the line, so i'd have to make friends with an existing user [16:49]
* shinohai waves at pete_dushenski [16:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah i see. that's unfortunate. [17:02]
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd say that in the interest of conserving manpower, the realtime leeching should not be a priority (honestly, it wasn't in my mind anyway, giving the ease with which hitler'd have turned it off anyway). instead the priorities for phuctor are : [17:03]
mircea_popescu: 1. make the 8ball auto-update on a reasonable server load, fully automated. this will provide nice passive gains. also have it published somewhere. [17:03]
mircea_popescu: 2. get the rsa conversion to the official tmsr universal rsa format discussed in logs. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: 3. get the ssh keys, the github keys, and the silk road dump keys 2'd and fed into phuctor. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: 4. convert the phuctor key db into a sks as per republican spec. the strategy being that we will confiscate all public key crypto just like we confiscated bitcoin from the fucktarded zombie horde. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: 1 is something you must do yourself, ideally asap. 2 and 3 is something others can do and therefore should. 4 is not urgent. so therefore : do 1 and move on to other things for a while. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: punkman you got anywhere with that torrent thing ? [17:05]
asciilifeform: 1 is pretty close to launchable. [17:09]
asciilifeform: do we have the sr dump churned ? (who was doing this?) [17:09]
asciilifeform: or is it also waiting for me [17:09]
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, the (interestingly - perfectly street-legal here) tube of tritium is here. [17:11]
asciilifeform: glass ampoule, coated in ZnS inside [17:12]
mircea_popescu: 2-3 not for you 4 for you eventually, depending on dfemand. maybe autumnish [17:12]
asciilifeform: very modest green light. [17:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hilarious instructions from seller: [17:18]
mircea_popescu: seems like a nice fellow [17:20]
mircea_popescu: ask him if he wants to wot. [17:20]
mircea_popescu: << who is this ? [17:21]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 15:22 Framedragger: ^ that's a bit incorrect, she's already been living in berlin, but had to visit family etc in US so not really "on the run" [17:21]
mircea_popescu: $google agora lovecruft [17:21]
deedbot: << isis agora lovecruft (@isislovecruft) | Twitter | << isislovecruft (Isis Agora Lovecruft) · GitHub | << Tor developer Isis Agora Lovecruft publicly accuses the FBI of ... [17:21]
mircea_popescu: heh k. [17:21]
mircea_popescu: << this is exactly how it works neh ? [17:22]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 15:27 asciilifeform: it will be truly comedic if it turns out that the performance of the clowns starring in the 'tor is genuine obstacle to usg, really, believe' circus ends up extending to hanging [17:22]
mircea_popescu: lol i see the Framedragger fellow got his baptism by fire ? [17:23]
mircea_popescu: << have to understand just how deep the rabbit hole goes. stuff like [17:25]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-12 15:47 mircea_popescu: also, please don't refer to tmsr as "a community". it is not "a community", it is your liege. [17:25]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 16:04 Framedragger: i just think someone may have a hard on for hating X (for good reasons) but not dismiss things produced by X prima facie. then again, i suppose it's a useful heuristic in resource/time scarce universes to do just that :) [17:25]
mircea_popescu: << this is pretty fucking epic. linkedin, market-valued at 1/17 the valuation of bitbet. [17:28]
mircea_popescu: turns out bitcoin is pretty fucking valuable, 86 btc ~= 1 bn usd. [17:28]
asciilifeform: chump lists are valued at ~epsilon. [17:28]
asciilifeform: typically. [17:28]
mircea_popescu: buyt the very chump lists in question are supposed to be the "secret" reason the "company" is "worth" n billionz. [17:29]
mircea_popescu: you know, like any ponzi ever, they're extracting valuable value out of trade with spain. [17:30]
asciilifeform: and list of everyone who drank coke is worth == to market cap of cocacola ?! [17:30]
mircea_popescu: cocacola does not propoise that the reason it somehow has value (notwithstanding it exists as a rented office with five derps in it) is its "market share" [17:31]
mircea_popescu: cocacola actually ships product. [17:31]
mircea_popescu: linkedin and the rest of the post-senility berkshire investments are all a "here's where you can give us stuff". [17:32]
mircea_popescu: ~the value of the ymca used clothes drop [17:32]
asciilifeform: linkedin is a kind of arsebook for wurk [17:32]
asciilifeform: i actually found several gigs using it [17:32]
mircea_popescu: "imagine - if we put a garbage can in every campus, people could throw GOLD BARS!! and FAST CARS! in there". [17:32]
asciilifeform: it exists purely as a sort of ebay, in the sense of 'this is the official pile of shit' [17:33]
mircea_popescu: THAT is the frucking busienss model of all these internet shits, linkedin, twitter, facebook, you name it. [17:33]
mircea_popescu: somehow it doesn't occur to them that the sort of people they reach don't have fucking gold bars [17:33]
mircea_popescu: and if they did, garbage can, seriously ? [17:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so. ebay moves product. [17:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform crediting linkedin for finding work is like crediting the toilet stall for finding a new future ex wife. [17:34]
asciilifeform: well yes [17:34]
mircea_popescu: well then. [17:34]
asciilifeform: just pointing out that it is the current 'official toilet' [17:34]
asciilifeform: ebay moves nothing, incidentally, it is 100% mechanical broker [17:35]
asciilifeform: just like linkedin etc. [17:35]
mircea_popescu: oh, amazon built warehouses, ebay hasn't ? [17:35]
asciilifeform: aha. [17:35]
* mircea_popescu has not been following too closely. [17:35]
asciilifeform: amazon is an actual store. [17:35]
mircea_popescu: ouchies. so they're getting sold soon. [17:35]
asciilifeform: with massive network of warehouses [17:35]
asciilifeform: ebay is 100% mechanical. [17:35]
mircea_popescu: aha. quite advanced too. i jusrt assumed ebay must be doing something to stay in the game [17:35]
asciilifeform: it only ever did one thing [17:36]
mircea_popescu: yeah, skim the milk off idiots. [17:36]
asciilifeform: i.e. maintain schellingatronic monopoly on the concept [17:36]
mircea_popescu: sounds like paypal. [17:36]
asciilifeform: recall, until recently they were under 1 roof. [17:36]
mircea_popescu: it's slowly coming back to me. [17:36]
asciilifeform: 'this is the only place where you can use cc without giving # to spammers' [17:36]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: [17:43]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: yeah i saw [17:45]
asciilifeform: possibly i fail to understand the thesis of the article [17:46]
pete_dushenski: you already saw that ? speedy gonzalez. [17:47]
pete_dushenski: the thesis reduces to 'old soviets didn't have it so bad, new soviets have it worse than they realise' [17:47]
asciilifeform: i prolly ought to point out for pete_dushenski's enlightenment that going to restaurant was a quite uncommon thing in su [17:49]
asciilifeform: roughly analogous to renting a limo in usa [17:49]
asciilifeform: i.e. something typical folks could afford to do once in a spell, but usually would do 'when occasion merits' [17:49]
pete_dushenski: speaking of ebay, i always thought pitney bowes (oft forced upon shipping intermediary) was a subsidiary. looks like not. [17:49]
mircea_popescu: no wai. every derpy graduating hs class gets 30 virginal kid asses on a rented limo. [17:49]
mircea_popescu: su restaurant ~= nomenklatura. they'd kick uppity proles right out. [17:49]
asciilifeform: nah [17:50]
asciilifeform: if you had the dough, you could go in [17:50]
asciilifeform: ~what you would be served~ is another matter! [17:50]
mircea_popescu: if you had the dough you could go explain how you got it to teh militsya [17:50]
asciilifeform: i recall my father recently told a tale, when he met with several phriendz some time in '70s who were reunited after long dispersal in army [17:50]
asciilifeform: they not only went to restaurant, [17:50]
asciilifeform: but ordered cigars. [17:50]
mircea_popescu: dough. wtf dough. commie restaurant meals were ~ the price of a loaf of bread [17:50]
asciilifeform: and gagged, choked on them, [17:51]
asciilifeform: because nobody had any fucking idea how to use a cigar. [17:51]
mircea_popescu: jesus. wtf soviet were you people running over there! [17:51]
asciilifeform: commoner schmuck who ~regularly~ showed up in restaurant, yes, might get asked questionz. [17:52]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: sounds like su restaurant was more properly speaking 'fine dining' contemporarily (ie. $40-60 entree) [17:54]
asciilifeform: in case engl.speaking n00bz are now perplexed, i oughta explain that 'restaurant' in su world meant something quite more specific than in, e.g., usa [17:54]
asciilifeform: aha pete_dushenski has it [17:54]
asciilifeform: there were cafes, pubs, etc. that were not rightfully 'restaurant' [17:55]
pete_dushenski: this is indeed only for special occasions. [17:55]
asciilifeform: dinner was something you generally ate in your (or friend's) kitchen. [17:55]
asciilifeform: (or dining hall at wurk) [17:55]
mircea_popescu: right, or else in those stand-up bufes with milk specialties and breads [17:56]
mircea_popescu: which really are way on the top of things i miss. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: you had those too, i suppose ? [17:56]
asciilifeform: aha. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: pretty much the same effect on my hindbrain as i suppose the "NUDE GIRLS" shows for vegas habituals [17:56]
asciilifeform: i even have a notion that something like it once existed in usa but i suspect that everyone who remembered it is dead by now [17:57]
mircea_popescu: funny how that shit works, nothing spells collegiate cunt quite like Sana [17:57]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prolly in the 30s. [17:57]
pete_dushenski: afaik these types of cafeterias are still known in eg. poland. 'milk bars' [17:58]
mircea_popescu: yeah but the milk specialties are gone and the pastries are shit [17:59]
mircea_popescu: fucking margerine already. [17:59]
pete_dushenski: what are these 'milk specialties' you speak of ? [17:59]
* asciilifeform cleaned desk for 1st time in 2y [18:00]
* asciilifeform no longer surrounded by metre-high pile [18:00]
mircea_popescu: "iaurt", which is not merely yoghurt, but a very speciffic thing sana lapte batut (sort of like buttermilk) etc [18:00]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> amazon is an actual store. << More a vehicle for various LLC's incorporated at a single home in Wyoming to play store [18:02]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: hilarious instructions from seller: << Who gets plastered on 6 pack of beer? [18:06]
mircea_popescu: women ? [18:07]
mircea_popescu: azns ? [18:07]
pete_dushenski: very small rocks [18:12]
asciilifeform: folks who dun drink much ? [18:13]
trinque: pete_dushenski │ very small rocks << ehehe [18:13]
pete_dushenski: << just skimming this had me looking to rent empty warehouses within which to store tp. [18:14]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: generous gift for the beoble? [18:14]
asciilifeform: or yer gonna dig a mine field around it. [18:14]
pete_dushenski: reminiscent of stories i've read from croatia (and rest of east bloc presumably) where tp was golden after the fall. [18:14]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you give beebs too much credit. a warehouse full of tp will go unmolested for maybe a decade or two, then ya, when push comes to shove you get some security [18:16]
pete_dushenski: in the meantime, it just needs to be kept dry and pest free [18:16]
asciilifeform: until somebody learns where it is. [18:16]
pete_dushenski: well canada != venezuala, nor will it anytime soon [18:17]
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski did you also read the stories about how you needed a sniper assassination squad just to visit your own outhouse ? [18:17]
pete_dushenski: but in the mid-term, all the shit will coalesce, no doubt [18:17]
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: no ?! [18:17]
mircea_popescu: yeah well. [18:17]
asciilifeform: related: [18:18]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-11 19:33 mircea_popescu: fwiw, young males that aren't entirely dumb go almost universally through this phase of "fantasy busienss" where they keep doing various coups in their heads, start a carwash then buy a shoestore with the proceeds then trade that in for a chain fo restaurants etc etc etc. [18:18]
asciilifeform: (consider folks who came out golden from su collapse, e.g., mircea_popescu, putin, etc. is it because they prophetically set up warehouses of toilet paper ??) [18:19]
pete_dushenski: lel. couldn't be more relevant. i have not one but two amigos who are actively searching for... car washes [18:19]
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski tell them to hire chicks for lewd and lascivious washing [18:19]
mircea_popescu: should prolly brand it as such, "Bob and Joe's Lewd and Lascivious Carwash" [18:20]
pete_dushenski: both quite seriously. car washes seem to run $600k - 1 mn around here. claimed revenue around $150k per annum [18:20]
mircea_popescu: is topless legal in canuckistan ? [18:20]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: do you know for a fact that khodorkovsky didn't stock tp up to the rafters ? [18:21]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: plenty of winnerz had the keys to stockpiles of tp, plutonium, etc. [18:22]
asciilifeform: this is not the point [18:22]
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: depends where. though with weed about to be legal, probably more places soon to be. [18:22]
asciilifeform: point is that it was not ~all~ they had. [18:22]
mircea_popescu: for one thing they spoke teh language. [18:22]
asciilifeform: see also [18:22]
a111: Logged on 2015-04-07 00:10 mircea_popescu: just like having a car doesn't alow having gasoline. it's true that often people who have cars also independently have gasoline, but the two are fundamentally unrelated, and there is such a thing as the fool's breakdown, ie, car's outta gas on the side of hte road. [18:22]
deedbot: [Trilema] El Pompenal - [18:25]
pete_dushenski: lol!1 i always thought torahs (torot?) were carried in brinks trucks or similar [18:27]
mircea_popescu: the city's full of them, but... apparently not [18:28]
pete_dushenski: << "On what made him decide to switch back to tipping? Attrition. We were losing staff, servers mostly. Kitchen was of course happy and turnover was nonexistent. And senior staff in the front of the house were happy. We were continuing to hire young, new people, train them, and then they'd get th [18:32]
pete_dushenski: e set of skills necessary, and they would generally give notice and move to other restaurants in our community who were still on a traditional tip economy." [18:32]
pete_dushenski: i never could quite understand the 'no tipping' blather. never seemed like much of a trend. turns out, i was right! [18:33]
mircea_popescu: these people never heard of contracts ? [18:33]
pete_dushenski: hm ? [18:34]
mircea_popescu: who the fuck hires noobs as free agents. if you train them, they either pay or indenture wtf. [18:34]
pete_dushenski: aha. that. ya, quite strange that it's not minimum 6mo or 1yr [18:36]
pete_dushenski: perhaps too expensive to enforce against such a transient population [18:36]
mircea_popescu: anyway. waitstaff in the us etc is miserable for turnover anyway. mostly because it's almost entirely manned by out of work strippers and other college students. who stick for a job on a project-base, she needs an abortion, works three weeks [18:36]
mircea_popescu: wants new matress, you get maybe five weeks out of her. etc. [18:36]
mircea_popescu: partly understandable, the patron menagerie is outrageous. [18:37]
phf: i think restaurants in su were still question of money. grandpa designed rockets, so my mom would go to restaurants with girlfriends growing up (later she worked at Sovicenter, which is a whole different level of access), and she would quote prices like 2.30 for a coffee and eclair. i think junior engineer salaries were somewhere around 90, a well to do pleb's end-of-career would be around 140, grandpa was making somewhere in upper [18:44]
phf: 300's [18:44]
mircea_popescu: dude... i dunno. complete (romanian style, 5 course) meal at the "university house", ie, restaurant for high ranking profs etc, ~20 lei. which was the 3rd largest bill, 1% or so of average salary. [18:45]
phf: given that u.s. entry level engineer is somewhere in the 60k, that's like paying $1200 for a cup of coffee with pastry. and i realize that it's a totally meaningless analogy [18:45]
phf: oh, that's not restaurants i'm thinking of. i'm thinking places that would have names, and that certain kind of su crowd would reminisce over, like "Prague" or "Astoria" [18:46]
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only restaurant doing decent aspics in the whole country for a decade + was inside the ro capitol building. meal there less than what happy meal cost. [18:46]
mircea_popescu: that was this thing's name, "Casa Universitarilor" [18:47]
phf: hmm [18:49]
mircea_popescu: there was also "belvedere", rather scenic up on a hill. available for upper class wedding receptions, otherwise open for... well not the public. [18:50]
pete_dushenski: 'not all soviet food is created equal' (tm) (r) [18:50]
mircea_popescu: actually a major passtime for locals post 1989 was to go check it out, for first time in life. [18:50]
mircea_popescu: place made a killingoff that cachet. [18:50]
mircea_popescu: phf how much was a vinyl record ? [18:53]
phf: i don't actually know, but i think i recall some высоцкий records with 30kp markings? [18:57]
mircea_popescu: so coffee + savarine = 8 vinyl records ? [18:59]
phf: well, right, prole stolovaya prices from the same time would be in .10-.50 range for full servings, so it's an outrageous price. [19:01]
pete_dushenski: sounds like 'gold-plated donut' [19:02]
mircea_popescu: weird that they'd be doing this capitalist thing. [19:02]
pete_dushenski: << reference [19:02]
pete_dushenski: couldn't find in logs [19:03]
phf: mircea_popescu: you know that is weird, seems like sop was accessible prices even at fancy places, but was discouraged from attending. i might be misremembering something [19:05]
phf: but there might've been some twist there, like pastry was the kind of pastry you couldn't buy anywhere else because "specially made only here on thursdays" [19:06]
mircea_popescu: maybe [19:16]
mircea_popescu: they did have a law re "illicit profits" on the books tho did they [19:20]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'нетрудовой доход' (tm) (r) [19:23]
asciilifeform: ('nonlabour income') [19:23]
asciilifeform: phf: plebe walking in was liable to be served shitleftovers [19:24]
phf: вчерашний суп [19:24]
asciilifeform: 'civilized humans' laugh at primitive orcs, who had their party-exclusive wankatrons where everybody could see them. [19:26]
asciilifeform: go and try to open the door under 'pirates' attraction in disneyland. [19:26]
asciilifeform: (lizard club with ~20 yr waiting list) [19:26]
asciilifeform: according to al schwartz [19:26]
asciilifeform: or, consider 'bohemian grove' [19:26]
asciilifeform: and these are only the ones publicly ~known~ [19:27]
asciilifeform: prolly 10th rate. [19:27]
mircea_popescu: uh [19:28]
asciilifeform: << hilariously, i never saw a vysotsky VINYL until a family phriend gave me his massive set as a gift in usa! most folks heard him on bootleg tape. [19:31]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 22:57 phf: i don't actually know, but i think i recall some высоцкий records with 30kp markings? [19:31]
asciilifeform: << add 3 zeros to get ~modern-usd wage. [19:32]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 22:44 phf: 300's [19:32]
asciilifeform: quite literally [19:33]
mircea_popescu: hey, best type of flour. 000. [19:33]
phf: i realize more and more that the fall of soviet union was to my great disadvantage. [19:33]
asciilifeform: '80s, engineer, my father, 100-120r/mo depending on whether 'invention bonus or not' [19:33]
mircea_popescu: and the end of the british empire was to orwell's. [19:33]
asciilifeform: professor, grandfather - 150 [19:34]
asciilifeform: dean - 200 [19:34]
mircea_popescu: generally the end of national empires is bad news for the locals. [19:34]
asciilifeform: these are EXACTLY the wages in usd at uni of md. for same type of people [19:34]
asciilifeform: and a lead engineer at boeing may well get 300k. [19:34]
asciilifeform: so we have the conversion factor... [19:35]
mircea_popescu: well, general dynamics. but yeah. [19:35]
asciilifeform: the su story is more interesting tho because guess what they DIDN'T have [19:36]
asciilifeform: ... the rent racket [19:36]
mircea_popescu: for same reason prices in restaurants weren't high. [19:36]
asciilifeform: aha, [19:36]
asciilifeform: but still [19:36]
asciilifeform: you wouldn't be giving back ~100% of yer pay just for having a roof. [19:36]
mircea_popescu: of course, houses were ~never sold. they were given. either by inca to plebs, or else by non-plebs to non-plebs by inca dispensation. [19:36]
asciilifeform: how much of his 300k does american rocketeer keep after mortgage payment ? [19:37]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct [19:37]
mircea_popescu: rms keeps most :D [19:37]
asciilifeform: except for dacha [19:37]
asciilifeform: which was bought and sold just like american house. [19:37]
asciilifeform: at least '70s and onward. [19:37]
asciilifeform: we sold it, bought plane ticketz. [19:37]
mircea_popescu: i think its purpose was to feed some semblance of usable rw data into the research center of w/e it was called [19:37]
mircea_popescu: the planning thing [19:37]
asciilifeform: gosplan? [19:37]
mircea_popescu: institute for this or the other, i forget. [19:38]
asciilifeform: purpose of what? [19:38]
mircea_popescu: ~the research side of the fed. trying to keep the economy from blowing up. [19:38]
mircea_popescu: about as successful as their homologues over at chernobyl [19:38]
pete_dushenski: gossnab ? [19:40]
asciilifeform: ah [19:41]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: su dean didn't have housing racket, but could he buy plane tickets to paris and rent apt there for summer ? (honest q) [19:41]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: nope [19:41]
phf: depends [19:41]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: not unless he were 'royalty' or in a profession that requires travel to human landz [19:42]
asciilifeform: (e.g., diplomat, spy) [19:42]
mircea_popescu: if dean was the cosmopolitan type he could do what sane men do : stay at gf's in paris. [19:42]
phf: on whether he was also connected otherwise. moscow state dean probably could've, some mukhosransk one--not [19:42]
mircea_popescu: if dean was more the family type... meh. [19:42]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not a matter of temperament, matter of rank [19:42]
mircea_popescu: rank being muchly a matter of temperament. [19:43]
asciilifeform: within constraints of the profession. [19:43]
mircea_popescu: i took "temperament" to stand as proxy of general human quality. [19:44]
asciilifeform: if we are thinking of an academic, the qualities mircea_popescu would admire would be inversely correlated with promotion [19:44]
mircea_popescu: i suspect this interpolation is correct only up to a point, and whats interesting happens long after that inflexion. [19:44]
asciilifeform: if, say, spy - as described in mega-b0000k 'aquarium' - then yes, 'bigger man' more likely to be let outside of the reservation. [19:44]
mircea_popescu: yet scores of academics ran the "friendly" gamut. socialistoid france particularly. [19:45]
mircea_popescu: obviously not all these could be spies, for the fucking obvious reason. [19:45]
asciilifeform: and yes, you had folks like gamow, who supposedly first tried to escape in a rowboat, then via eu [19:47]
asciilifeform: but successful escape, afaik, was correlated more than anything with how much pr victory the possession of your arse would be for the nato folk [19:48]
mircea_popescu: what escape dood. go visit paris 7-8 times a decade. [19:48]
mircea_popescu: stay a week or two, come back. [19:48]
asciilifeform: i thought we were doing escape artists. [19:48]
mircea_popescu: no, profs with a penchant for getting their penis and gullet well oiled. [19:49]
asciilifeform: can do that back home [19:49]
mircea_popescu: do west germany twice that, and then there's all the eastern yurp countries. [19:49]
mod6: soooo i went through the epic headache of setting up sks server on dulap, only to learn that the thing will not work without blessing from existing sks operators. <<< uuuuugh [19:49]
asciilifeform: they had chix in su [19:49]
mircea_popescu: there were dozens of people who lived very much the 90s academic conference circus. [19:49]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, [20:15]
asciilifeform: from soresphorge, [20:15]
asciilifeform: 'cryptcat - encrypting netcat' [20:15]
asciilifeform: 1star review: [20:15]
asciilifeform: 'Bad crypto. DO NOT USE. There is IV reuse and the password KDF is one of the worst I've seen: cryptcat -k bunnies -l 12345 cryptcat -k b5ee9e3 12345 or cryptcat -k Kue.ins 12345 Also no MAC and you can XOR anything to the first 16 bytes of each packet without artifacts.' [20:15]
asciilifeform: ^ tru ^ [20:15]
asciilifeform: NOT to be confused with the infamously broken chat app 'cryptocat'. [20:15]
mod6: heheh IV reuse [20:19]
Framedragger: ^ (obligatory read re. cryptocat: ) [20:23]
shinohai: ewww cryptocat [20:23]
asciilifeform: pretty much everybody heard of cryptocat. [20:24]
Framedragger: every time a re-read.. "The bug that lasted 347 days was the confusion between a string and an array of integers." 'nuff said. it's just good entertainment value [20:25]
Framedragger: *i [20:25]
Framedragger: << yeh is only fair.. [20:26]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-18 21:23 mircea_popescu: lol i see the Framedragger fellow got his baptism by fire ? [20:26]
* mircea_popescu hadn't heard. [20:44]
asciilifeform: phamous instance of wholly-phony crypto. [20:50]
deedbot: [Trilema] Files from the War on the Web. Today, PBNation. - [21:11]
mircea_popescu: and in other news, [21:32]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger github references in that article are of course gone. [21:35]
mircea_popescu: this fucking web. [21:35]
mircea_popescu: "The bug that lasted 347 days was the confusion between a string and an array of integers. This made the ECC private keys ridiculously small because they passed a string of decimal digits into a function expecting an array of 17, 15 bit integers." ahaha ok that's pretty good. [21:36]
mircea_popescu: oh ok, so changed 16^64 to 10^64 and the "generate entropy in the shape of floating point number" thing clearly indicate these fellows are windows programmers with a strong javascript focus. [21:40]
mircea_popescu: you know, like satoshi. [21:40]
asciilifeform: << wwwtardism and microshititis are quite distinct afflictions. like drink vs morphinism. [21:54]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-19 01:40 mircea_popescu: oh ok, so changed 16^64 to 10^64 and the "generate entropy in the shape of floating point number" thing clearly indicate these fellows are windows programmers with a strong javascript focus. [21:54]
asciilifeform: note, microshit never achieved the marvel of a programming language where machine ints cannot be relied upon as arithmetic field [21:56]
asciilifeform: this had to wait for the webtardz [21:57]
asciilifeform: e.g., jwz [21:57]
mircea_popescu: it's just mindboggling [23:01]
mircea_popescu: where's that costanza line... [23:02]
mircea_popescu: "Why did it all turn out like this for me? I had so much promise. I was personable, I was bright. Oh, maybe not academically speaking, but ... I was perceptive. I always know when someone's uncomfortable at a party. It became very clear to me sitting out there today, that every decision I've ever made, in my entire life, has been wrong. My life is the opposite of everything I want it to be. Every instinct I have, in every fac [23:06]
mircea_popescu: et of life, be it something to wear, something to eat ... It's all been wrong." [23:06]
mircea_popescu: ^ testament of every "computer programmer" of the "modern computing" school ever. [23:06]
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