Forum logs for 18 Apr 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
BingoBoingo: In other derp: "The researchers dubbed the reorganization an act of "rapid river piracy," saying that such events had often occurred in the Earth's geologic past, but never before, to their knowledge, as a sudden present-day event. They also called it "geologically instantaneous."" << Ignoring... The Mississippi River's frequent rerouting since the days the French found it. 'Member when the Illinois state capital was in Kaskaski, 2010 ce [00:05]
BingoBoingo: nsus population 14' [00:05]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: 0 word re where it was for ~2wks << "BitBet Mod 17-04-17 at 14:49 Dear BitBet users, Our apologies for the extended downtime. We underwent a ddos attack, motivated by a rather base extortion attempt (the 4th or 5th this year, but this one was unusually large). We have taken steps with our ISP to buy additional ddos protection capacity and are back to normal operations. All funds under our [00:36]
pete_dushenski: custody remain - as usual - safe, and as our standard policy dictates, not a single satoshi was paid our to the attackers." (from comment on bitbet page) [00:36]
pete_dushenski: new bbet policy #1 : communicate with terrorists but don't negotiate with them [00:38]
pete_dushenski: new bbet policy #2 : don't communicate with users but do negotiate with them [00:38]
mod6: Alright. [01:26]
mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, et. al: Eatblock test results & blog post: [01:27]
mircea_popescu: o look at that slim checkblock [01:29]
pete_dushenski: << whoa [01:31]
mod6: haha [01:36]
ben_vulpes: pretty cool, barely a week [01:37]
mod6: thing was /flying/ [01:38]
mod6: did never started on fire... so that was good. [01:38]
mod6: *disk [01:38]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> o look at that slim checkblock << thought it might be cool to do some perl, parse out the stats, do some calcs & provide. [01:39]
asciilifeform: << systemwide free mem is a 100% worthless stat on linux box, if correctly working box -- it'll be ~0 -- disk cache [09:17]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-18 05:31 pete_dushenski: << whoa [09:17]
asciilifeform: mod6: where's the per-block db stall time ? or still perling it out from debug.log? [09:18]
mircea_popescu: << might be good to link definitions of "checkblock" etc on the page. [10:16]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-18 05:39 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> o look at that slim checkblock << thought it might be cool to do some perl, parse out the stats, do some calcs & provide. [10:16]
mircea_popescu: and yes, what alf says. the per block thing [10:16]
mod6: lemme take a quick look [11:03]
mod6: I don't see a "stall time". [11:07]
mod6: Let me illustrate [11:07]
asciilifeform: mod6: the read/write times [11:07]
asciilifeform: y'know, when trb sits like idiot and waits for bdb to disk i/o. [11:07]
mod6: (btw, the full log is available via the blog), but here's a snippit of one block eaten [11:08]
mod6: [11:08]
asciilifeform: where's the db read wait ? [11:08]
asciilifeform: that was in the last patch [11:08]
mod6: my checkblock stats are mean/median of all of those values [11:08]
mod6: accept block, process block, and db write wait. [11:09]
mod6: that was in the odometer? [11:09]
asciilifeform: << [11:09]
asciilifeform: anyway looks like you don't have this [11:10]
asciilifeform: plot the write times plox ? [11:10]
asciilifeform: ( the avg is not very useful, it includes megatonne of 0/handful-tx blocks from early years) [11:10]
asciilifeform: so the two curves would be: [11:11]
asciilifeform: 1) total ProcessBlock time (vertical) -- block # (horiz.) [11:11]
asciilifeform: 2) db write wait time (vertical) -- block # (horiz.) [11:11]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> anyway looks like you don't have this << ahh, sadly, no. [11:12]
asciilifeform: not a big deal, read+write ~= total ProcessBlock time [11:12]
asciilifeform: ( from my earlier findings . ) [11:12]
mod6: ok, i'll see what I can do about getting those two curves put together today. [11:12]
asciilifeform: neato, ty for the sweat mod6 [11:13]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> not a big deal, read+write ~= total ProcessBlock time << makes sense. stangely, i overlooked that last patch [11:13]
mod6: asciilifeform: np all tall, my pleasure [11:13]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 0day in : minicom. >> [11:31]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in berkley, [11:55]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [12:48]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1202.0, vol: 5500.07229829 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1217.755, vol: 6831.59355 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1263.0, vol: 19196.08120282 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1030.177, vol: 3219.74830000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1205.6, vol: 2182.4943908 | Volume-weighted last average: 1221.85440241 [12:49]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: << lulzies/qntra [12:51]
BingoBoingo: lulzies, maybe qntra if more relatit shoes drop [12:51]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1407...9989 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( DE NW) [12:56]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1630...5117 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( DE NW) [12:56]
shinohai: [13:09]
ben_vulpes: gross [13:09]
asciilifeform: ew [13:09]
asciilifeform: why am i reading this [13:09]
ben_vulpes: i had a similar experience recently, asciilifeform [13:10]
ben_vulpes: this showed up in my house: [13:10]
ben_vulpes: and if you thought the ideological brainrot was bad, the writing is /even worse/. [13:11]
ben_vulpes: which tbqh i did not think was possible [13:11]
ben_vulpes: t i shit thee not is for trans [13:11]
asciilifeform: 'c is for co-op, cooperating cultures, creative counter to corporate vultures.' [13:11]
asciilifeform: lol! [13:11]
ben_vulpes: yeah and corporate is capitalized but vulture oddly not [13:11]
ben_vulpes: zero rhyme, and let us not speak of the reason. [13:11]
asciilifeform: where'dya get this [13:12]
asciilifeform: bought for lulz? [13:12]
ben_vulpes: no i prohibited spending money on it when i saw the cover for the first time months ago [13:13]
ben_vulpes: someone else, possibly 2/10 troll [13:13]
ben_vulpes: one of the $libgirls in $othertown [13:13]
ben_vulpes: bad bad agitprop masquerading as a children's book [13:14]
asciilifeform: would be lulzy to make a subtle parody of this masterpiece, and sneak into bookstores, with forged barcode. [13:14]
asciilifeform: 'c is for clit...' [13:14]
asciilifeform: 'i is for islam..' [13:15]
ben_vulpes: board books are costly, but yes [13:15]
ben_vulpes: hah uh huh [13:15]
ben_vulpes: "Kings are fine for storytime./ Knights are fun to play./ But when we make decisions/ we will choose the people's way!" [13:16]
ben_vulpes: "baby why do you hate it?" "because it's sooo baaaad" [13:17]
mircea_popescu: aaand in other adventures, [13:18]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty great scenery [13:19]
mircea_popescu: great again, you mean. [13:19]
lobbes: So, I'm midway through my first gentoo adventure. Currently on the compile kernel step (genkernel), but running into funkiness with uClibc errors. My question is: if I abandon uClibc for, say, glibc, will I have issues building trb? (I remember reading in logz that trb doesn't use glibc) [13:22]
lobbes: Perhaps musl is better option? Fwiw, I posted over on gentoo forumz with my specifics, but am not versed enough to know if the suggestions they gave (e.g. using glibc) will fuck me over building trb or not: [13:22]
asciilifeform: lobbes: uclibc definitely won't work. [13:23]
asciilifeform: it's missing a bunch of essentials. [13:23]
asciilifeform: for trb, that is. [13:23]
lobbes: Aha, well this makes my decisions easier already [13:23]
asciilifeform: glibc is also not supported for trb. [13:23]
asciilifeform: ( it fails to link statically ) [13:23]
ben_vulpes: trb builds with buildroot though, does that with which the kernel is compiled affect that pipeline? [13:25]
asciilifeform: nope [13:25]
asciilifeform: but you gotta make sure to have musltronic gcc. [13:25]
asciilifeform: otherwise no dice. [13:25]
asciilifeform: ( this was, if anyone recalls, the whole reason i brought in the buildroot thing ) [13:25]
asciilifeform: in mod6's buildtron, the kernel isn't even used. [13:26]
asciilifeform: ( but presumably lobbes is trying for a musltronic linux -- probably oughta ask trinque , iirc he has one going ) [13:26]
lobbes: Well, I'm just trying to stand up a gentoo that'll run trb. Seems like my kernel choice may not be as important as I thought as long as gcc is musltronic? [13:28]
asciilifeform: whole point of a static bin [13:28]
asciilifeform: is that it will run, in principle, [13:29]
asciilifeform: on any reasonable linux. [13:29]
asciilifeform: regardless of how built. [13:29]
asciilifeform: and be unaffected by local liquishit. [13:29]
lobbes: Aha (Sorry, most of this is over my head still) [13:29]
lobbes: Wow, that makes sense all of a sudden [13:29]
trinque: [13:33]
trinque: mostly, it's 1) start from a musltronic stage3 (they're present on the mirrors in iirc "experimental") and 2) install layman, add musl overlay [13:34]
trinque: if you wanted to start from stage1, there'd be additional steps involving selecting the right portage profile [13:34]
trinque: but yeah, not required to have musltronic trb [13:34]
lobbes: Nifty! thanks trinque/asciilifeform [13:35]
mircea_popescu: << yeah well, when the people actually get a way, or for that matter a clue, maybe we revisit this. [13:46]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-18 17:16 ben_vulpes: "Kings are fine for storytime./ Knights are fun to play./ But when we make decisions/ we will choose the people's way!" [13:46]
mircea_popescu: oh, and in "trends and fashions of wedding parties today", [13:52]
asciilifeform: in other noose, 'Steve Stephens was spotted this morning by PSP members in Erie County. After a brief pursuit, Stephens shot and killed himself.' -- re: recent desperado [14:01]
ben_vulpes: PSP? [14:02]
asciilifeform: PA state police. [14:02]
ben_vulpes: ah [14:02]
ben_vulpes: 'members' threw me off [14:03]
mircea_popescu: who was this ? [14:03]
asciilifeform: some d00d [14:03]
mircea_popescu: clearly. [14:03]
asciilifeform: the one in . [14:03]
mircea_popescu: a [14:03]
asciilifeform: << in other manchurian candidates. [14:06]
asciilifeform: 'The man accused of fatally shooting five people in a Washington state mall last year has been found dead in his jail cell, authorities said Monday. ... When police confronted the suspect, he froze and complied ... was unarmed and silent, "kind of zombie-like," ... emigrated from Turkey and was a legal permanent resident' [14:09]
mats: a comparison of game theory strategies: always-defect, always-cooperate, tit-for-tat and win-stay, lose-shift [14:15]
Framedragger: mats: why this particular paper? unless no good comparisons till now, but kinda hard to believe? just curious. [14:18]
asciilifeform: mats: if you're an aficionado, you'll like [14:18]
a111: Logged on 2014-06-22 17:11 asciilifeform: (think: axelrod's classic 'prisoner' tournament - 'on steroids') [14:18]
mats: Framedragger: came up in a discussion re: dprk engagement, regarding how one might 'error correct' to prevent conflict spiraling [14:22]
mats: i've little exposure to game theory beyond iterated tit-for-tat so i found this interesting [14:23]
mod6: im having trouble making a graph with nearly a million datapoints in it. [14:23]
Framedragger: mats: ah, sounds cool :) [14:24]
mod6: drawing of the graph is crashing LibreOffice Calc. [14:24]
mats: everything crashes libreoffice calc in my experience [14:24]
mod6: any other graph tool suggestions? [14:24]
ben_vulpes: excel [14:25]
* ben_vulpes ducks [14:25]
mod6: lol [14:25]
mats: matplotlib, but iirc you're a perl-er [14:25]
mircea_popescu: mod6 use the tool we use in eulora! [14:25]
mircea_popescu: recall, all the mining maps [14:25]
mod6: ah. ok. [14:25]
mod6: infact, this thing crashed my entire computer. pff [14:26]
mod6: had to hardpower off the fucking cocksucker [14:26]
mircea_popescu: in other hardpower lulz, chick's icemaker in the fridge stopped working, just this very sad sound and no ice forthcoming. she called the very helpful super (young guy, i suppose he likes her). quoth he : "sometimes when the power goes out you have to reset these. you know, like computers ? power it down overnight and see in the morning." [14:28]
ben_vulpes: second gross of the day [14:28]
mats: ru news reports capture of abu bakr al-baghdadi [14:28]
ben_vulpes: keep 'em comin boys [14:28]
mircea_popescu: quoth her : "fuck me, i bet i know what happened. power went out for like 10 minutes yest, musta been the water duct froze in the interval then power being back on it maintains the ice cork and it can't make more ice." [14:29]
mircea_popescu: quoth me : "so power it down, open freezer door, put glass of hot water close to conduit in question." [14:29]
mircea_popescu: win-win-lulz. [14:29]
Framedragger: smooth troubleshooting! [14:31]
asciilifeform: << gnuplot [14:52]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-18 18:23 mod6: im having trouble making a graph with nearly a million datapoints in it. [14:52]
mircea_popescu: aha. [14:52]
asciilifeform: strictly. [14:52]
asciilifeform: anything else -- waste of time [14:53]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that's what "we use in eulora" [14:54]
* mircea_popescu is sitting pretty on a large ball of synergy, pulling on the threads. [14:55]
mod6: ok [15:15]
mod6: is this kinda what you're looking for? [15:16]
mircea_popescu: o hey nice [15:17]
mod6: oh wit. [15:17]
mod6: *wait. [15:17]
mod6: this can't be right... [15:17]
mircea_popescu: oh ? [15:17]
mod6: well, maybe it is? i see some spikes in the 30000ms range... didn't think it was ever that high. [15:18]
mod6: looking through the raw data now... [15:18]
mircea_popescu: worth a check [15:19]
mod6: $ cat graph.txt | awk '{print $2}' | perl -e '@a=<STDIN> foreach(@a) { chomp($_) if($_ > 25000) { print "$_\n" }}' | wc -l [15:21]
mod6: 10 [15:21]
mod6: oh yah! guess there are. :] [15:21]
mircea_popescu: :p [15:22]
mircea_popescu: spotting this sort of thing is why graphs exist in the first place. [15:22]
mod6: gnuplot is actually really cool. can't believe i never used it before. [15:22]
mod6: thanks a LOT to diana_coman who helped me :] [15:22]
mircea_popescu: can't believe you didn't start using it once you saw all of us use it in eulora lol\ [15:22]
mod6: i actually had no idea how you guys were doing the charting. [15:23]
mod6: should have asked. [15:23]
mircea_popescu: she made a post about it, lemme see [15:23]
diana_coman: cool graph mod6 [15:24]
mircea_popescu: < [15:24]
mod6: ya, turned out cool 'eh? thanks for your help. looks sweet. [15:24]
mod6: oh [15:24]
* mod6 looks [15:24]
mircea_popescu: well at least didn't hose whole machine eh ? :D [15:24]
mod6: ahhh right, i remember seeing this. [15:25]
mod6: haha, yeah, it did grind it down for like 10 seconds, but then it was fine [15:25]
mircea_popescu: says gnuplot right there [15:25]
mod6: yeah, stuff falls out of my head sometimes. [15:25]
mod6: i'll update my blog [15:25]
shinohai: Heh I remember reading diana_coman 's article and spent whole weekend plotting shit and writing scripts [15:29]
mircea_popescu: lol [15:30]
* diana_coman can't quite believe that's from 2015 already, ha [15:30]
mircea_popescu: shit accumulates! [15:30]
shinohai: I didn't discover it until late last year lol [15:30]
mircea_popescu: thanks god you took the hour to write it out so two years later i can link it. [15:30]
diana_coman: there is that [15:31]
mod6: yeah, srsly. [15:32]
mod6: and it looks like 69x easier than me gimp'ing over some eulora screenshots. [15:32]
mod6: [blog updated] [15:33]
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, because it autoprocessed the bot log anyway. you dun gotta do nuttin. [15:33]
mod6: that's slick [15:33]
asciilifeform: mod6: see ye olde << there is a pythong and gp script in there [15:34]
mod6: that's slick [15:34]
asciilifeform: ( the one i used for the plots ) [15:34]
asciilifeform: oh nm [15:34]
asciilifeform: looks like mod6 already has [15:34]
asciilifeform: lol [15:34]
mircea_popescu: lol [15:34]
* asciilifeform catches up with l0gz [15:35]
asciilifeform: gotta wonder, what happened in the spikes [15:35]
asciilifeform: 'stress tests' ? [15:35]
asciilifeform: ( folx playing with mining 'db-pessimized' blocks... ? ) [15:35]
mircea_popescu: the one concerning point is that the growth has not yet plateau'd. [15:36]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didn't i tellya it'll be geometric ? [15:36]
mircea_popescu: so far looks flatly linear. but... [15:36]
mircea_popescu: early on everything does. [15:36]
asciilifeform: aha. [15:36]
asciilifeform: you can trivially derive the fact of it being not at all linear. [15:36]
asciilifeform: eventually (given the extant turdball) it'll be >10min, and party's over. [15:37]
mircea_popescu: it's not that far off as it is. bout halfway there. [15:37]
ben_vulpes: eh we could just give up on verification [15:37]
asciilifeform: 'we' [15:37]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes has been trying to troll all day, and he sucks at it! [15:38]
ben_vulpes: this is snark, not trolling [15:38]
mircea_popescu: snark is trolling. [15:39]
ben_vulpes: trolling is /fishing/ [15:39]
mircea_popescu: like sarcasm is wit. [15:39]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's trawling. [15:39]
ben_vulpes: one trawls for lolz, trolls for trout. [15:40]
mircea_popescu: trout is not an ocean fish. [15:40]
ben_vulpes: it's a freshwater river thing. [15:40]
asciilifeform: mod6: can haz one moar plot -- just 300,000 and up, plox ? [15:40]
mircea_popescu: !~google trawler [15:40]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Browse Trawler boats for sale - <> Trawler - Wikipedia: <> Trawlers For Sale By Size - Used Trawlers - New Trawlers - Yacht ...: <> [15:40]
asciilifeform: mod6: also legend oughta read 'db write wait time' [15:40]
asciilifeform: ( the overall db wait time is ~= the total ) [15:41]
ben_vulpes: !~google trout trolling [15:41]
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: Trolling For Rainbow Trout In Still Waters - In-Fisherman: <> Four Ways to Troll for Trout , Salmon, Crappies, Walleyes, and ...: <> Trout Trolling Techniques - Game & Fish: (1 more message) [15:41]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at berkley, [15:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly time to re-do this whole eatblock instrumentation with a per-line timing profiler. [15:42]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i DID THIS [15:42]
asciilifeform: omfg [15:42]
asciilifeform: there's exactly 1 segment that accounted for ~99% of time. [15:43]
asciilifeform: and i instrumented it. [15:43]
asciilifeform: thread is in the logs. [15:43]
mircea_popescu: no, i know. but look at the graph. so what ~exactly~ is this 'db write wait time' that is ~= the total ? [15:43]
asciilifeform: e.g., [15:44]
asciilifeform: ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 167839ms db write wait: 130117ms db read wait: 21201ms [15:44]
asciilifeform: i posted a bunch of these. [15:45]
mircea_popescu: can i has corresponding code snippet that was executing ? [15:45]
asciilifeform: aha! [15:45]
mircea_popescu: nevermind the bunch of these, i want the whole eatblock'd blockchain. [15:45]
asciilifeform: [15:45]
mircea_popescu: ie, ALL, no bunch. [15:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's what mod6 was doing. except that he forgot the 'read' patch ^ and only had total and write. [15:45]
mircea_popescu: mod6 you up for a re-do ? [15:46]
asciilifeform: also fwiw his total block delays (red) match the ones on my ssd node (zoolag) [15:48]
asciilifeform: roughly. [15:48]
mod6: i certainly could. [15:51]
mod6: so just add in this patch: ? [15:53]
mircea_popescu: would be useful to have the whole saga, and you're all set up for it, so should be easier than reconstructing the setup later. [15:53]
mod6: i'm up for a full re-eatblock. just want to make sure I'm not missing anything this time :] [15:54]
asciilifeform: mod6: you need asciilifeform_blackhole_odometer.vpatch + above, aha. [15:54]
mod6: ok. [15:54]
mod6: let me get that setup. [15:54]
asciilifeform: one more thing [15:54]
mod6: ok [15:54]
asciilifeform: (optional) make it print total odometers on shutdown [15:54]
mod6: how do i do that? [15:55]
asciilifeform: so we find out total % of the node's bringup time spent waiting for bdb [15:55]
asciilifeform: make a, e.g., [15:55]
asciilifeform: int64 dbTotal = 0 somewhere, [15:56]
asciilifeform: and dbTotal += res say, after the print. [15:57]
asciilifeform: then where the shutdown routine is, print it. [15:57]
mod6: im certain to screw that up [15:57]
asciilifeform: anyway this is not essential. [15:57]
mircea_popescu: lettuce take a moment and make this one proper. [15:57]
mod6: before I recompile everything. i'll check with you again. [15:57]
mod6: i gotta recut all the blocks anyway. [15:57]
mod6: i just deleted them this am [15:58]
mircea_popescu: oh [15:58]
asciilifeform: mod6: i recommend to keep'em around [15:58]
asciilifeform: they are quite handy. [15:58]
mod6: for whom? it's like 100G [15:58]
asciilifeform: handy for experiments and what-ifs of many sorts. [15:59]
asciilifeform: i quite often refer to the raw blox. [15:59]
asciilifeform: put'em on an old hdd. [15:59]
mod6: ok, maybe might have to just another drive and drop 'em on there. [15:59]
asciilifeform: in other noose! [16:00]
asciilifeform: i may have found a bug in dd. [16:00]
asciilifeform: of the worst sort, the 'folx in the know, know about it, and it will never be fixed' [16:00]
mircea_popescu: as a general policy, when doing things of this nature (publishing intertesting stuff in forum) keep the whole echafaudage for day+ while people comment. [16:00]
ben_vulpes: weeks+ is prudent, review is slow [16:00]
mircea_popescu: or that. [16:01]
asciilifeform: apparently, when reading slow or variable-speed source ( such as FUCKGOATS ) dd will sometimes fail to fill an entire block (default block size is 512 on most boxes) and PAD WITH MOTHERFUCKING ZEROS [16:01]
asciilifeform: the cure, apparently, is option ' iflag=fullblock ' which for some reason is NOT DEFAULT [16:01]
asciilifeform: MOTHERFUCKERS [16:01]
asciilifeform: on what planet was this considered acceptable?!!! [16:02]
mod6: i'll try that next time i run a test. [16:02]
asciilifeform: 'oh i'ma pad with zeros' [16:02]
asciilifeform: holy FUCK the sheer gangrene. [16:02]
asciilifeform: ^ mircea_popescu, mod6 , ben_vulpes , everybody ^ [16:03]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: whaaaaaaaaat [16:03]
asciilifeform: ikr? [16:03]
ben_vulpes: p. bad. [16:03]
Framedragger: why in the fuck would that be useful [16:03]
Framedragger: it's /dev/urandom but worse [16:03]
Framedragger: also NOT ITS JOB [16:03]
Framedragger: :D [16:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought you thought core utils is fine. [16:03]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: apparently everything is 'fine' until you find the magic corner case. [16:04]
mircea_popescu: except for any time you try to use them, i find they are fine too! like one of those comedic toolboxes with a hammer that's seemingly attached except if you pick it up the metal falls off etc. [16:04]
mircea_popescu: magic my foot. [16:04]
Framedragger: mp is now like "i told ya so!!! tail!!!" [16:04]
asciilifeform: has been updated. [16:04]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g., dd, worx 100% of the time when copying multi-TB ssd, say. [16:05]
asciilifeform: but apparently doesn't like kB/s variable thing. [16:05]
asciilifeform: 'unix philosophy' my arse. [16:05]
Framedragger: it's like the modern website. "i expect good bandwidth. you have low bandwidth? fuck yourself" [16:05]
Framedragger: that's so *silent* and sneaky tho. [16:06]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: almost like somebody thought about rng. [16:06]
mod6: ok blowing away all of my .dat files in ~/.bitcoin [16:06]
mod6: will recut all .dat files ... [16:06]
Framedragger: "Note if the input may return short reads as could be the case when reading from a pipe for example, ‘iflag=fullblock’ will ensure that ‘count=’ corresponds to complete input blocks rather than the traditional POSIX specified behavior of counting input read operations." OK [16:07]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: picture if 'this util will format your hdd unless you supply the iflag=dontformatmyhdd option' buried somewhere deep in docs. [16:08]
mod6: cutting blocks... [16:08]
asciilifeform: why the FUCK would anyone specify 'count ATTEMPTS' rather than reads ! [16:08]
Framedragger: apparently it's posix tradition didntyaknow [16:09]
asciilifeform: barfalicious. [16:09]
Framedragger: flabbergasted. may as well embrace tmsr's default malice interpretation here. because seriously. [16:09]
* Framedragger thought `dd` was one of those few 'no hidden bullshit, what you see is what you get' utilities from better times [16:10]
asciilifeform: aaaha. [16:10]
Framedragger: nice find. [16:10]
ben_vulpes: while we're doing these, i'd be much obliged if folks with a copy of drakma on hand would run `(drakma:http-request "")` and let me know what you get [16:11]
asciilifeform: nooseflash: even, e.g., 'cat', has megatonne of liquishit. [16:11]
asciilifeform: on 'modern unix'. [16:11]
trinque: cat thread is by now a yearly tradition [16:12]
ben_vulpes: cat: [16:12]
asciilifeform: ^ we had this on 2+ threads [16:12]
asciilifeform: ( spoiler : plan9's is the 'correct' one ) [16:14]
Framedragger: yes well, granted it doesn't support additional command line args, so has to handle fewer things. but then, maybe that, too, is *also* correct... [16:16]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sadly, it IS the posix standard. [16:16]
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: complexity is a the self-justifying disease of the programmer's mind [16:16]
Framedragger: i certainly see that, especially looking at gnu cat (omfg) [16:17]
mircea_popescu: << i can't iamgine how. the skeleton we found is just about 50 years old. [16:17]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-18 20:09 Framedragger: flabbergasted. may as well embrace tmsr's default malice interpretation here. because seriously. [16:17]
ben_vulpes: but you don't see that from your career of programmering to date? [16:17]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ' i only implemented the standard ' has roughly same cachet as ' i was only following orders!11' [16:17]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i betcha it's been in the old dog eared yellowed looseleaf notes the posix copied. [16:18]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope [16:18]
asciilifeform: [16:18]
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: of course i do. i meant, i see it here, too, and agree. but, yeah, 'tis a big problem [16:18]
asciilifeform: 2001. [16:18]
ben_vulpes: hmk [16:18]
asciilifeform: the 'standard' in question is actually quasi-mythological work, and (yes) SCO's. [16:18]
asciilifeform: THAT very same SCO. [16:19]
mircea_popescu: hm. [16:19]
asciilifeform: btw, here's a lulzy: [16:26]
asciilifeform: yes | dd of=out bs=1024k count=10 [16:26]
asciilifeform: then ls -l out [16:26]
asciilifeform: and laugh/cry [16:26]
doppler: weird.. what's going on there? [16:28]
asciilifeform: doppler: once you figure out this puzzler, you will grasp what the thread was about [16:28]
shinohai: See the du -h retardation from previous thread [16:30]
asciilifeform: ^ that one is at least plain to naked eye [16:30]
asciilifeform: if you omit the 'h', you get output in martian units [16:30]
doppler: I agree that -h should be the default in userland utilities [16:32]
asciilifeform: bbbbutthatwouldntbePOSIX!111 [16:33]
trinque: folks that want a charitable interpretation of these might ponder a while re: who has the most time / resources to shitgnominate [16:33]
doppler: asciilifeform: haha, yeah. like I have “alias l='ls -hlp'” for example [16:33]
doppler: asciilifeform: POSIX sure seems to result in a lot of braindamage [16:34]
jurov: short reads prolly started as unix worse-is-better philosophy "api has these huge warts but as it can be easily fixed by retrying in userspace, it's okay"..posix only snowballed on [17:03]
mircea_popescu: i believe. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: was a time when data was a lot more valuable, basically on account of the world not yet consisting of the www pressed shitboard. in that world of little valuable data, having any chunk "lost in the pipes" would have appeared typically soviet wasteful bureaucratism. [17:07]
asciilifeform: except that the idiocy in question doesn't preserve any data. [17:07]
asciilifeform: it inserts 0 silently in place of what failed to read. [17:07]
asciilifeform: 'new jersey philosophy' : 'silent failure is just about as good as success' [17:08]
mircea_popescu: if i have 3.5 blocks it allows me to read 4 blocks last of which is half 0s [17:08]
asciilifeform: could just the same do this without the padding. [17:08]
mircea_popescu: not on their iron. [17:08]
asciilifeform: read 77 bytes ? write 77, motherfucker [17:08]
asciilifeform: let the WRITER pad. [17:08]
asciilifeform: if the iron wants it. [17:08]
mircea_popescu: wasteful. [17:08]
asciilifeform: how?? [17:08]
mircea_popescu: padding has now been written. [17:09]
asciilifeform: i dun get it [17:09]
asciilifeform: put the padding in when and IF required -- on the end that requires it. [17:09]
mircea_popescu: do you want to get it ? [17:09]
asciilifeform: rather than having the reader lie to the operator. [17:09]
jurov: on the yes test, i got warning: [17:20]
jurov: dd: warning: partial read (73728 bytes) suggest iflag=fullblock [17:20]
jurov: still, no mention at all data is mutilated [17:22]
doppler: I didn't get any warnings. you're using coreutils dd, correct? [17:23]
jurov: yes, sys-apps/coreutils-8.25 (/bin/dd) (acl nls xattr -caps -gmp -hostname -kill -multicall -selinux -static -vanilla USERLAND="-BSD") [17:25]
doppler: oops, I actually do get that warning. totally didn't see it the first time. coreutils-8.27 here [17:33]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: can haz one moar plot -- just 300,000 and up, plox ? << i can do this easy enough, still want this? [17:58]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> yes | dd of=out bs=1024k count=10 << ya, tried this, 122880 bytes out [18:02]
mod6: then tried `yes | dd iflag=fullblock of=out bs=1024k count=10` and says 10485760 bytes out [18:03]
mod6: so yah that's fucky [18:03]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at teh farm, [18:17]
mod6: work, work, work. [18:18]
mircea_popescu: better than the tanning bed. [18:19]
mod6: for sure [18:19]
asciilifeform: << i got no warnings [18:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-18 21:20 jurov: dd: warning: partial read (73728 bytes) suggest iflag=fullblock [18:29]
ben_vulpes: dd on bsd (os x, claims 1994 vintage) does not appear to pad [18:39]
ben_vulpes: manpage indicates padding must be asked for [18:39]
Framedragger: this is only done by gnu coreutils dd, it seems. same warning on ubuntu (coreutils), etc. [18:41]
ben_vulpes: [18:42]
BingoBoingo: !~ud tiny dancer [19:32]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: tiny dancer :: "Tiny Dancer" is the name given to (and used when spoken about in public or otherwise) the 1/2 erection that can be grabbed at the base and twirled around, thus becoming a "tiny dancer." [ex:] "So who wants to go play frisbee?""I do, but wait until my Tiny Dancer goes away." [/ex] | 1.) A drink made with one part Stolichnaya Oranj, one part cranberry juice. Garnish with lime.2.) A (6 more messages) [19:32]
BingoBoingo: ^ At least ud core util works [19:32]
Framedragger: it's remarkably good.. [20:05]
asciilifeform: << embrace&extinguish!11 [20:44]
ben_vulpes: ohey, dieguito [20:48]
asciilifeform: waiwat [20:48]
ben_vulpes: i think he's been around a while [20:49]
ben_vulpes: yeah [20:49]
ben_vulpes: met him in ars a while back [20:49]
ben_vulpes: how do these "two way pegs" work? [20:49]
asciilifeform: 'Bitcoin cannot verify the authenticity of balances on another blockchain. When a user intends to convert BTC to SBTC, some BTC are locked in Bitcoin and the same amount of SBTC is unlocked in RSK. ' [20:50]
asciilifeform: 'locked in bitcoin' wat, how [20:50]
ben_vulpes: c'est un mysthurr [20:50]
asciilifeform: and we find, further in, [20:51]
asciilifeform: 'At least 51% percent of the Federation members signatures are required to transfer bitcoins out of the peg wallet. However, once Bitcoin soft-forks to support the drivechain BIP RSK proposed, unlocking funds from the peg will require 51% percent acknowledgement by the merge-mining hashing power as well. ' [20:51]
asciilifeform: sooooooo apparently mutilation of bitcoin is part of the plan. [20:51]
asciilifeform: until then, plain promisetronics. [20:51]
ben_vulpes: this implies they'll run their own rsk central bank thinger? [20:52]
asciilifeform: naturally. [20:52]
ben_vulpes: getting 51% signatures for each trade? or...? [20:52]
asciilifeform: this gets better and better, [20:53]
asciilifeform: 'RSK miners cannot double-spend, as the Federation provides the checkpointing service, and every Federation member node is highly connected to the RSK network to prevent Sybil attacks. The Federation will use the checkpointing power to prevent reorganizations of high depth which are not related to a protocol fault. The Federation cannot double-spend, as a Federation member is not allowed to checkpoint two blocks having conflicting t [20:53]
asciilifeform: ransactions.' [20:53]
asciilifeform: gotta be parody. [20:53]
ben_vulpes: what, someone else can propose it [20:54]
asciilifeform: 'clients stop using federated checkpoints when if RSK hashing power is over 66% of the maximum BTC hashing difficulty observed in the best chain and the fees paid in a block are higher or equal to the average reward of a Bitcoin block.' << first, afaik, instance of altshitcoin audacious enough to have hardcoded embrace&extinguish automated detector. [20:55]
ben_vulpes: how does one detect hashpower? [20:56]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: via difficulty ? [20:56]
ben_vulpes: i suppose, weak proxy though [20:57]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why ? [20:57]
ben_vulpes: only adjusts every two weeks, right? [20:58]
asciilifeform: right. but if you notice that a block is happening every 3min, you can also estimate the next change in diff [20:59]
asciilifeform: ergo the hashpower [20:59]
asciilifeform: (unless you want to dispute whether it is correct to say 'hashpower' if someone somewhere is mining using a non-bruteforce algo, 'cheating', or with whatever witchcraft that doesn't require walking the hash) [20:59]
ben_vulpes: mhm [21:02]
mircea_popescu: o look, it's random scam nonsense day on trilema. [21:13]
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long till we cycle back to that brunette fucktard, what's her name. [21:14]
asciilifeform: tresscoverer? [21:15]
asciilifeform: or what was it [21:15]
mircea_popescu: nono, some beauty contest reject that then failed to find her cocksucker career, went into congressional aide pretense. [21:15]
mircea_popescu: stupid name too [21:16]
mircea_popescu: prophiria brick or audacia stove or somesuch usian style greek-given name / scullery item family name. [21:16]
asciilifeform: i must've missed this one [21:17]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1033...6167 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown US) [21:22]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1201...7453 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown US) [21:22]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1201...7453 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown US) [21:22]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1282...6909 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown US) [21:22]
mod6: alright, mircea_popescu & asciilifeform full offline eatblock test is running again [21:22]
mircea_popescu: cool! [21:23]
asciilifeform: neato [21:23]
mod6: this time with ProcessBlock took (time val) ms db write wait (time val) ms db read wait (time val) ms [21:23]
mod6: 24K+ blocks and counting... [21:24]
mod6: nmon is running again as well. [21:24]
mircea_popescu: post a snippet for comments ? [21:24]
mod6: lemme see what I can do. it's an offline box lol... [21:25]
mircea_popescu: ah k [21:25]
mod6: ok here's what I had when I copied it: [21:34]
mod6: grab this quick, because I probably won't leave it up there long. [21:34]
mircea_popescu: kk [21:35]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1708...6363 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( ID JK) [22:07]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1622...5917 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( ID JK) [22:07]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1730...2503 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown SE) [22:07]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1607...9147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown SE) [22:07]
asciilifeform: << 'zimbra' [22:20]
asciilifeform: whatever that is. [22:20]
asciilifeform: ftp -p [22:22]
asciilifeform: Connected to [22:22]
asciilifeform: 220 "PT. Asean Motor International. Local FTP Server." [22:22]
asciilifeform: anonymous... works [22:22]
asciilifeform: empty tho. [22:22]
asciilifeform: in case anybody needed a warez drop... [22:22]
asciilifeform: << asean motor intl. [22:23]
asciilifeform: vroom,vroom. [22:23]
mircea_popescu: lel [23:00]
danielpbarron: !#s perianne boring [23:03]
a111: 13 results for "perianne boring", [23:03]
mircea_popescu: ah! [23:11]
mircea_popescu: thassit. [23:11]
asciilifeform: in other oldies, . [23:27]
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