Forum logs for 16 Jun 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown MX CHH) [00:02]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown MX CHH) [00:02]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown MX CHH) [00:02]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown MX CHH) [00:02]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1120...8343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown MX CHH) [00:02]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9976...7323 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown MX CHH) [00:02]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, very vintage lulgem from a vintage trilema, [00:09]
BingoBoingo: lol [00:12]
trinque: why did someone save four pictures of that ugly woman [00:18]
trinque: oh god, I'm tired, made same joke as the filename [00:18]
* trinque departs! [00:18]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [00:41]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2420.0, vol: 36351.35251520 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2463.671, vol: 15402.25459 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2381.1, vol: 54429.47696304 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2659.08153, vol: 18130.42470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2416.198, vol: 15598.9621391 | Volume-weighted last average: 2440.23170351 [00:41]
mircea_popescu: << these are really cool btw. [04:54]
deedbot: << Trilema - Jduuuu! [05:02]
mod6: mornin' [09:31]
mircea_popescu: heya [09:37]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this intersectional thing is so tense! i can barely follow. [09:48]
mircea_popescu: but meanwhile at the "wut?" ranch, [09:50]
mod6: nice [09:50]
* BingoBoingo wonders how mircea_popescu's local puta con leche is [10:05]
mircea_popescu: lol [10:05]
mircea_popescu: you mean puta lechera ? [10:05]
BingoBoingo: Nah, I mean with milk [10:06]
mircea_popescu: yes but with milk as in her own or not [10:06]
mircea_popescu: lechera here doesn't mean anything like lecherous. vaca lechera = cow which you can milk. [10:08]
BingoBoingo: Well that's too be determined by the response for the request [10:10]
BingoBoingo: Does the leche arrive in the puta, in a pitcher, in cow on leash? [10:11]
mircea_popescu: !!up giucciardini [10:11]
deedbot: giucciardini voiced for 30 minutes. [10:11]
mircea_popescu: why are they so broken anyway. [10:13]
BingoBoingo: No idea. [10:13]
mircea_popescu: it's like "omyGOD, the adults might have noticed me!!! QUICK PANIC PUSH THE ANY BUTTON11eleven" [10:14]
BingoBoingo: So today's lul is "special counsel" of many leaks Mueller is once again broadening the scope of investigation to find more leaks [10:14]
BingoBoingo: to leak [10:14]
mircea_popescu: even the leaks leak on this great sheep of state. [10:14]
mircea_popescu: maybe we should sell a bitcent, present the us congress with a two ton truck full of leeks. [10:15]
mircea_popescu: "in loving consideration of your continued leadersheep, dumbasses." [10:15]
BingoBoingo: Truck driver would likely be arrested. Onion futures are mega-crime in USia [10:15]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hire one of those new googlebots. [10:16]
BingoBoingo: But that'll spoil some raytheon contract when it makes it past their drone detectors [10:17]
mircea_popescu: elementarily can't have drone detectors in us congress [10:17]
mircea_popescu: how'd the representatives get in ? [10:17]
BingoBoingo: That's the one secret raytheon contractors don't want you to know! [10:18]
asciilifeform: !~later tell pete_dushenski << i confess that i was unable to make sense of this [10:47]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [10:47]
Framedragger: PSA, the `!$ssh` command may go offline for a while "soon", moving the db server which is used for this to a better, more tremendous place [11:09]
Framedragger: (scriba unaffected) [11:09]
Framedragger: << yes can do, if no other opinions, then will do - i like the way btcbase does it now! [11:10]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 16:15 asciilifeform: !~later tell Framedragger l0gz feature request -- turn the href in links to * into btcbase ( printed text of link can remain same, in principle ) [11:10]
Framedragger: (in truth, whole loggotron is in need of drainage, just fyi that i don't forget previous requests.. but yes, slow) [11:11]
* Framedragger mostly afk due to country move and related [11:11]
deedbot: << Qntra - Failed State To Be Removed From Trade Partnership [11:13]
Framedragger: (oh and where scan data and phuctor mirror are hosted will also be offline for a bit "some time soonish maybe") [11:13]
BingoBoingo: Found in the wild: "I know this is the most controversial part of my story. A few people I told this one before would instantly jump to her defense: if she felt she was harassed then she was, end of story. Who knows. As an aside, I found it extremely interesting that mentioning the guy's race instantly changed those people's minds (Pat's white, the guy who got fired was the only african american on our team)." << Victim Olympics [11:15]
Framedragger: << sorry asciilifeform, i missed this "tell" and only saw now! hmm, key *parser* - as in, pgp parser? i don't believe you've posted that before, or i haven't seen it. at any rate you probably meant sth else that the phuctor fingerprint generator i assume? [11:16]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 17:43 asciilifeform: !~later tell Framedragger do you perchance remember where in the logs i posted phuctor's key parser ? [11:16]
Framedragger: (the latter is [11:16]
Framedragger: s/else that the/else than the/ [11:16]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: unless #2 you meant jurov's pgp packet parser but probably not? ( [11:18]
mircea_popescu: o look who's here! [11:20]
mircea_popescu: when did you get out ? [11:20]
Framedragger: still in the island :) off around ~5-7 july, travel for a bit (but not much), just finished handover at $ukjob, quite happy [11:21]
Framedragger: brexit negotiations about to start, such timing huehue [11:22]
Framedragger: will be relatively (entomologically?) interesting to watch from some distance away (i mean, europe is all the very same swamp, sure...) [11:23]
mircea_popescu: depends, hungary's not so terribru. [11:24]
mircea_popescu: except for the terrible food, horrible language etc. but primo whores. [11:24]
mod6: i'll have to check it out [11:24]
Framedragger: i can believe re. whores! visited briefly. weird language, one of its kind in that branch or something like that, right? [11:26]
Framedragger: (also iirc .hu gobmint wanted to shut down CEU (this uni in budapest) because it had some unhappy words to say about gobmint or somesuch, but then again maybe CEU is ~liberalshit anyway, so fair) [11:26]
mircea_popescu: with finish [11:26]
mircea_popescu: i'd shut down ceu too. [11:26]
mircea_popescu: anywya, yes, they went rhodesia a decade-ish ago [11:27]
Framedragger: ah [11:28]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: unless #3 you meant ssh key to rfc4880 pgp converter (, but again, prolly not. don't remember seeing any phuctor innards tbh (except for fingerprint algo), but could just be me [11:34]
diana_coman: Framedragger, where are you moving to? [11:36]
Framedragger: .lt for the summer at least. no master plan, and right now don't feel like having one (first time i feel like that in life) [11:36]
* Framedragger haz some meatwot and friends in berlin (will pay a visit in july), considering that, too, but not in a hurry [11:37]
diana_coman: ah, looking around Europe as it were [11:37]
asciilifeform: << that's exactly it Framedragger [11:38]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-16 15:16 Framedragger: (the latter is [11:38]
asciilifeform: it's the only snippet that was posted, or in any near future will be. [11:38]
Framedragger: ah, cool! [11:38]
Framedragger: diana_coman: yeah, not too geographically ambitious for the time being, i'faith, hm [11:38]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: as for 'why', see also thread . [11:39]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 13:19 mircea_popescu: well, in the particular case of phuctor, he has a solid point. [11:39]
* Framedragger will read. need to catch up on logz, too [11:39]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it is a cruelty [11:59]
deedbot: << Qntra - Amazon To Pay 13.7 Billion US Dollars For Brick And Mortar Footprint [12:09]
asciilifeform: lol! [12:10]
BingoBoingo: The amazon capturing whole foods is most aggressive pantsuit move of the year so far [12:11]
mod6: let them eat kale! [12:12]
trinque: clearly putting mkultra mind control substances in the quinoa [12:14]
asciilifeform: [12:15]
asciilifeform: relatedly , i went to one the other day, and saw -- i shit thee not -- ubuntufoundation-branded coffee. [12:15]
trinque: hey, they've got ethiopian coffee [12:15]
trinque: gotta wonder if the purchaser knew what an ubuntu was. [12:16]
asciilifeform: trinque: corner shop also has ethiopian coffee. [12:16]
asciilifeform: this was actual ubuntunonsense-brand, for 5x the usual price of beans [12:16]
asciilifeform: 'supports education in africa' or somesuch gargle [12:17]
trinque: << looks like a different beast [12:17]
asciilifeform: trinque: not the same logo [12:17]
asciilifeform: i'ma take a photo next time i see it [12:17]
asciilifeform: it read 'ubuntu foundation' [12:17]
* trinque would love to see [12:18]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: and [12:21]
BingoBoingo: Also [12:22]
trinque: << certainly not shockingly high [12:23]
trinque: [12:23]
BingoBoingo: "For Whole Foods, the remedy includes gutting the grocery store and rebuilding it anew, based on consultations with multiple contractors" [12:23]
asciilifeform: trinque: 'you aren't cleared for the TRU bookz, comrade gorbachev' [12:23]
trinque: lol [12:24]
lobbes: BingoBoingo << "the Powerball Jackpot game" link goes to about:blank? [12:25]
trinque: speaking of commies, I'm finding I quite enjoy sviatoslav richter [12:25]
BingoBoingo: lobbes: ty fxd [12:27]
lobbes: Aha! Elliot reference. Just as a I expected :D [12:28]
BingoBoingo: lol [12:29]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform [12:30]
* trinque suddenly realizes that some pig is coughing in the background of this guy playing chopin, for minutes on end [12:31]
trinque: I guess when it's somebody important, counts as percussion [12:32]
BingoBoingo: ^ VErmin [12:32]
asciilifeform: trinque: ever been to a performance of anything where nobody sneezed ? sorta why theatres don't double as recording studios , and the latter exist as separate thing [12:33]
trinque: after 5th cough pls to get the fuck out. [12:33]
trinque: and asciilifeform is right, whole foods appears to have an army of subsidiaries, so the profit number on the mothership is a useless fiction. [12:43]
asciilifeform: trinque: 'pantsuit corps' like to funnel whatever profit there is into compensations for bluebloods, rather than dividends, also [12:43]
asciilifeform: a kind of unofficial 'nonprofit' scheme [12:43]
asciilifeform: anyone in usa who has not been to a wf -- visit, it is quite surreal 'disneyland of 'bay aryanism'' theme park. contains everything from 'ubuntu foundation coffee' to 'airbnb magazine' (i shit thee not) [12:45]
phf: asciilifeform: perhaps this ? [12:46]
asciilifeform: phf: yes! [12:46]
asciilifeform: it. [12:47]
phf: but re wf, fwiw it's the least expensive of the pantsuit stores. there are much worse examples from both price and "ubuntu foundation" perspective. for example i have Mom's and Yes organic both within walking distance. i used to live next to dawson's in rockville. all of them are more wf than wf. [12:50]
asciilifeform: lol i have these here also [12:50]
asciilifeform: wf beats the living shit out of'em [12:51]
asciilifeform: on signal/noise etc [12:51]
trinque: texas has "central market", better selection than wf [12:51]
asciilifeform: wf is very much 'the lolmart of' 'highend food' in usa [12:52]
phf: s/n maybe. but if you're trying to buy "raw ingredients", like meat cuts, vegetables, bulk dry goods, wf is the cheapest option. can do safeway for some items, but there's a noticeable drop in quality [12:53]
asciilifeform: aha - scale [12:53]
phf: jesus [12:57]
* asciilifeform hands phf an iron-cross-with-oak-leaves for intrepid entomology work [12:58]
asciilifeform: wai is the 'human resource manager' wearing a flakjacket...?! [12:58]
phf: they have a clothing line and everything [12:59]
asciilifeform: 'head of production' : 'i am growing : we are gonna change it all' [12:59]
asciilifeform: 'production manager' : 'i am a DIVA : we are the future of tomorrow' [12:59]
mod6: lmao [12:59]
* asciilifeform maxed out dosimeter [13:00]
trinque: one side of that transaction doesn't look like it's eating too well [13:00]
phf: BOARD MEMBER i am inspired by children at UBUNTU school : we are working hard to help them reach their potential [13:00]
phf: BOARD PRESIDENT EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE CHAIR i am loving and capable : we are miracles [13:01]
* Framedragger just got reverse-poe-law'd. apparently this isn't parody, omg [13:14]
BingoBoingo: Oh? [13:15]
Framedragger: ah, just that all this time i was thinking #t was making fun of wannabe-board-member derps, but the above ^ are actual quotes [13:17]
trinque: ah god they're from Austin, too. [13:20]
asciilifeform: oh noez, maga valhalla infested!111 [13:22]
trinque: californians have been swarming in. [13:23]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1477...1307 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( BR) [13:27]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1683...0803 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( BR) [13:27]
ben_vulpes: "new seasons" is pretty choice [14:03]
* trinque misses it. [14:05]
ben_vulpes: ahaha creative director: "i am creating : we are inspiring" [14:23]
ben_vulpes: > i am obedient [14:24]
ben_vulpes: why is it that only the white austin team has animated pics [14:24]
ben_vulpes: hm? HM? [14:24]
deedbot: << Qntra - LeftistFrench Batters Woman During Her Visit To Market Over Objections To Her Campaign [15:22]
BingoBoingo: tit-le fxd [15:25]
BingoBoingo: [16:58]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [17:00]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2492.83, vol: 16148.30827408 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2473.308, vol: 7145.31136 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2445.8, vol: 25624.84666402 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2712.568932, vol: 14523.43730000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2486.459, vol: 9171.34558406 | Volume-weighted last average: 2517.45782855 [17:00]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lel, gotta be a photoshit [17:00]
BingoBoingo: How sure? [17:01]
BingoBoingo: !!Up punto [17:44]
deedbot: punto voiced for 30 minutes. [17:44]
BingoBoingo: Hola punto! Who is your daddy and what does he do? [17:45]
sina: morning tmsr [18:31]
phf: ben_vulpes: i think they took one group photo of the afrian team (you can see it elsewhere) and then cut it for profile pictures [18:46]
asciilifeform: in other lullariae, ( ) >> 'A 100% American Technology Company' [18:46]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in spam : 'wanted: Vulnerability Researcher and Patriot. Vulnerability Researcher Do you critique the narrative and technology displayed on Mr. Robot? Do you like to wear a hoodie… always with the hood up? Do you have a haircut inspired by anime? NO?!! We guess that’s okay, as long as you can do some of the things listed below… and have a minimum of a Top Secret security clearance? .... IDA Pro ... x86' etc etc [18:51]
asciilifeform: i couldn't make these up if i tried. [18:51]
mircea_popescu: dorks. [18:51]
asciilifeform: 'Applicants selected for employment will be subject to a Federal background investigation and must meet additional eligibility requirements for access to classified information or materials.' [18:52]
sina: you get what you advertise for [18:54]
sina: [18:54]
asciilifeform: sina : see also . [18:54]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-03 02:47 asciilifeform: in such a way as to judas goat the authors of said code to rewrite it such that it DEMANDS the new 'improved' compiler. [18:54]
asciilifeform: and likewise . [18:55]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 15:03 mp_en_viaje: basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible". [18:55]
sina: asciilifeform: maybe if you don't want the hoodie job you can work for [18:56]
mircea_popescu: o hey, mi viaje! [18:56]
asciilifeform: sina: lol [18:56]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also local branch of appletel is hiring! JAVA! [18:57]
asciilifeform: 'Uninitialized memory has been used as a source of entropy to seed random number generators in OpenSSL, DragonFly BSD, OpenBSD, and elsewhere.10 If accessing an indeterminate value is undefined behavior, however, compilers may optimize out these expressions, resulting in predictable values.' << bonus lol [18:57]
sina: that's my fav line [18:57]
mircea_popescu: undefined behaviour != indeterminate values ffs. [18:57]
asciilifeform: 'hey we neutron bombed yer house' 'but at least the rats died' [18:57]
mircea_popescu: !#s turbulent flow [18:58]
a111: 9 results for "turbulent flow", [18:58]
sina: oh yeah I started working on an ircbot! [18:58]
sina: [18:58]
mircea_popescu: sina what in ? [18:58]
sina: prototype in python for now, deciding whether to proceed in that lang or not [18:58]
* asciilifeform has been working on the ~same ~20 lines of code for past... 6wks [18:58]
mircea_popescu: use supybot carcass then [18:58]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now you know why you can't have a job! [18:59]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: job is ~different~ 20ln lel [18:59]
mircea_popescu: black chicks coding have better loc productivity than you [18:59]
asciilifeform: chicks (as in the kind that hatch from egg) probably also [18:59]
mircea_popescu: cluckboard! [19:00]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform notices that his desk has an uncanny resemblance to the one in 'ascension of alfred' [19:00]
mircea_popescu: lol [19:01]
mircea_popescu: ALFred, geddit ? [19:01]
asciilifeform: apparently! [19:01]
asciilifeform: whole room, in point of fact [19:01]
lobbes: <mircea_popescu> use supybot carcass then << aye. 'tis what lobbesbot (and I think jhvh1) run on, sina [19:07]
lobbes: or, even better, check out trinque's lispbot [19:08]
lobbes: I one day aim to migrate lobbesbot functions over to that.. but many things in the hopper before then [19:08]
* Framedragger used sopel successfully. would also like to eventually migrate to ircbot/logbot, tho [19:12]
sina: literally everyone I know [19:13]
sina: for some reason I feel mircea_popescu will enjoy this tweet [19:15]
sina: oop [19:15]
sina: [19:15]
mircea_popescu: not setup to read tweets atm. what is it ? [19:15]
sina: ".@Coinbase disabled the #FreeRoss account after receiving 16.5 #Bitcoin this morning. We need that for Ross' defense" [19:15]
asciilifeform: sina: that ain't milk coming from the dead cow, it's corpsejuice [19:15]
mircea_popescu: idiots. why use known scam ? [19:15]
mircea_popescu: o, right, because they're all about FIXING the socialist tub so it can CONTINUE FOR LONGER [19:16]
sina: I knew you'd like it [19:18]
mircea_popescu: not sure i'd go as far as all that. [19:18]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the era of erudite crackpotteries, >> 'July 28, 2003 // Magic Flight is an algorithm for public key exchange which is based on a lossy commutative mixer constructed from products of primes. The basic operation involves an underlying ring-like algebra which does not have multiplicative inverses, and may not have additive inverses. The elimination of additive inverses (cancellation) is intended [19:21]
asciilifeform: to prevent standard algebraic methods of solution.' [19:21]
mircea_popescu: the "does not have" is a remarkably strong claim [19:22]
* asciilifeform does not endorse $subj [19:23]
asciilifeform: posted for historical purposes. [19:23]
asciilifeform: ( at some point i'ma get around to sawing the thing open an' seeing if it contains salvageables ) [19:23]
mircea_popescu: i dun get what exactly is the need for another key exchange algo. [19:24]
asciilifeform: none!! [19:24]
asciilifeform: that ain't the (potentially) interesting bit. [19:24]
mircea_popescu: the properties of constructed algebras are the pre-haskell mathwank. [19:25]
mircea_popescu: and i mean this very literally. [19:25]
asciilifeform: pre- mainscurrent wank [19:25]
mircea_popescu: not wank then yet. [19:25]
mircea_popescu: back when peopel like bannach and bolyai were doing it. [19:25]
mircea_popescu: much like kandisnky isn't yet wank. [19:25]
asciilifeform: aha! [19:25]
asciilifeform: 'wank' in same sense as boolean algebra.. [19:26]
asciilifeform: sorta why asciilifeform goes a-spelunkin' in old maths crackpotteries. every decade back ~doubles the snr [19:26]
mircea_popescu: just about. problem is that the basis is so narrow you need like five or six doublings. [19:27]
asciilifeform: << lol, poor lone soldier [19:27]
asciilifeform: wonder if he's alive still somewhere. [19:28]
trinque: << eh? [19:30]
asciilifeform: who knows if same [19:31]
asciilifeform: but if yes... belly of the beast. RIP. [19:31]
danielpbarron: !!key Keira_ [20:56]
deedbot: [20:56]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in cheap ho-tels, [21:15]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1059...1187 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US CA) [21:18]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1069...5599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US NY) [21:18]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1069...5599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US CA) [21:18]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1229...0123 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( US NY) [21:18]
phf: Enlightenment window manager is "fully committed to moving to Wayland eventually as this is definitely the future of the graphical display layer on Linux." etc. [22:48]
asciilifeform: ahahaha [22:48]
mircea_popescu: what's wayland ? [22:48]
asciilifeform: !#s wayland [22:48]
a111: 15 results for "wayland", [22:48]
asciilifeform: e.g., , , [22:49]
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 23:01 asciilifeform: and iirc 'wayland' is one of those infuriating idiocies where 'want remote proggy? here's a DESKTOP, in a 1024x768 box' [22:49]
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 12:42 phf: but freezing effectively implies lockstep freezing of the whole environment, to hardware. ("oh we deprecated x11, your code better support wayland. oh this new video card only supports wayland, since x11 is deprecated, etc."] [22:49]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-13 23:41 asciilifeform: from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r [22:49]
asciilifeform: poetteringization of x11. [22:49]
phf: noticed this while looking for imlib2 sources [22:52]
phf: which is apparently now. legacy, see [22:53]
sina: "Report: 7 Percent of Americans Think Brown Cows Make Chocolate Milk" [23:02]
phf: you've lived in u.s. too long when you think "oh, hmm, that's not that bad actually!" [23:07]
mircea_popescu: heh [23:07]
asciilifeform: ^ [23:07]
mircea_popescu: this "poor idiots make standards -- doesn't matter what lords thnk" nonsense is it's very own kind of poetteringization. [23:09]
mircea_popescu: windows WILL NEVER BE a standardf. [23:09]
mircea_popescu: BECAUSE i do not use it. [23:10]
mircea_popescu: the ONLY WAY anything can matter is if ~I~ use it. [23:10]
sina: mircea_popescu: you use wordpress tho :P [23:13]
phf: some people when they come back to old homestead take certain perverse pleasure in learning that joe now sucks cock for meth, while molly is married with three kids to a cop that beats her. not i, i'm sad to see my childhood friends debase themselves so [23:13]
sina: I got nothing against Wayland. [23:16]
mircea_popescu: it's called mp-wp [23:16]
sina: at least Wayland apps can't keylog other Wayland apps like X can [23:16]
mircea_popescu: sina if you made them, at least. [23:16]
mircea_popescu: koch's styill can, i'm, sure. [23:16]
sina: I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but X needs to die, and only a few people are doing the work to kill it [23:17]
asciilifeform: how about the folx trying to make it die, die instead. [23:17]
asciilifeform: preferably very painfully. [23:18]
phf: sina: did you read that on reddit? [23:18]
mircea_popescu: well, let's instead examine priors. sina and why must it die ? [23:19]
sina: phf: read what? [23:19]
sina: mircea_popescu: my main gripe is that X apps aren't isolated from each other, so they can tamper easily. I don't really like it that a vulnerability in, e.g. xeyes, can read firefox memory, or whatever. [23:21]
mircea_popescu: no apps on any x86 machine are isolated from each other. [23:21]
sina: so that makes it OK for a given X app to be able to log keys from another X app? [23:22]
mircea_popescu: ie, you are reacting to the empty tank light coming on by trying to buy a car without one [23:22]
mircea_popescu: no, it does not make it ok. it also does not make it ok for some snake oil salesman to sell his "better" shitpie. [23:23]
mircea_popescu: the republic is well weary of such charlatans, chiefly because their ~only offering encountered experimentally sooner or later boils down to "vote hillary" [23:23]
sina: the republic is, as you like to say, a sovereign entity, can do whatever it likes, including ignoring the existence of software produced by people it deems as charlatans [23:25]
mircea_popescu: this is so. [23:25]
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, it can not ignore it, and exploit the holes for great ethlulz. [23:25]
mircea_popescu: or it can laugh ass off at them and publicly humiliater [23:25]
mircea_popescu: or it can send assassins to peel the skin off their children in the night while they watch in horror. [23:25]
mircea_popescu: and so following. what of it ? [23:25]
sina: I'm trying to remember that thing you said when I was asking about the php mpfhf [23:26]
mircea_popescu: im sure it's in the glorious logs! [23:26]
sina: [23:28]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 22:38 mircea_popescu: "works in the sense that it does something, not in the sense it does what it should" [23:28]
mircea_popescu: lel [23:28]
phf: sina: could you explain the difference between how keylogger issue manifests in x11 vs. how wayland prevents it, with some technical details? [23:28]
mircea_popescu: phf i doubt he's anything more than simply pissed at the rather famous x thing. [23:29]
mircea_popescu: it's one of those outrageous items. [23:29]
phf: that much is obvious from what he said so far, but i thought maybe he'll choose to think about it a little bit [23:30]
mircea_popescu: in time! [23:30]
* phf simmers down [23:30]
mircea_popescu: phf is wise beyond his years. [23:30]
sina: phf: mostly my opinion based on this article [23:31]
asciilifeform: 'Windows is the only one mainstream OS I'm aware of, that actually attempts to implement some form of GUI-level isolation, starting from Windows Vista. See e.g. this ancient article I wrote in the days when I used Vista at my primary laptop.' [23:32]
* asciilifeform falls down. [23:32]
mircea_popescu: windows vista is so aptly named, like one of those florida retirement things. "rancho linda vista" etc [23:33]
asciilifeform: ^ for n00bz -- this is verbatim Official usg doctrine -- i.e. the ostensible reason why winblowz is mandatory at nsa etc [23:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe not at nsa, but eg at puerto rico / united ass-fucked emirates, etc. [23:33]
sina: did you rush to paste that before continue reading? she's aware of the limitations and nobody says "use windows" [23:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mandatory at nsa [23:33]
sina: I'm not even a fan of Joanna or Qubes OS Xen junk [23:33]
asciilifeform: sina: i read it back when. [23:34]
sina: I just pointing out the issue illustrated there [23:34]
phf: sina: yes, but do you understand the ~technical details~ [23:34]
sina: X apps receive *all* keyboard input [23:34]
sina: Wayland apps don't [23:34]
sina: yay [23:34]
mircea_popescu: sometimes i suspect asciilifeform has octopus helmet but with eyes, reads like that. [23:34]
asciilifeform: sina: ever meet a fella who bought reinforced iron door to put in a drywall flat , with ground floor windows ? [23:34]
phf: sina: that's an extreme oversimplification that is also not true [23:34]
sina: phf: it's not true that X apps receive all kb input? [23:35]
phf: no [23:35]
mircea_popescu: sina trivially verified, open two gui editors, type in one , check the other. [23:36]
phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh) [23:36]
phf: x11 allows you to attach your own windows to a window hierarchy, that starts with root window [23:37]
phf: on any of those windows you can put masks for what kind of events you want to receive [23:37]
phf: root, being a special window receives all the events (that's very handwavy but closer to truth) [23:38]
phf: those events then propagate down the window hierarchy [23:38]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: mandatory at nsa << Per "Reality Winner Mc Moon Unit"'s orders [23:38]
sina: fair, let me rephrase and you tell me if still not true: x apps have access to receive all keyboard input [23:38]
phf: an application can choose to register events on root window and thus receive all the keyboarding events that come in (or mouse events) [23:38]
sina: to me, the distinction between "X apps receive all keyboard input" and "X apps have access to receive all keyboard input" is negligible [23:39]
phf: sina: can you wait till i finish my explanation [23:39]
sina: sorry [23:39]
sina: continue [23:39]
phf: in addition there's a RECORD extension that allows any application to register for all keyboard events irrespective of their destination [23:40]
phf: that one is used for things like screen recording, and is optional. it doesn't otherwise respect the hierarchy [23:40]
sina: I have no beef with that extension [23:41]
phf: a security minded application can do what's known as a server grab, which isolates a chosen window and makes it a new root as far as events are concerned [23:42]
phf: so now it doesn't matter who's registered for what, the only windows that will be receiving events are those in the server grab hierarchy, i.e. your chosen window and its children [23:42]
phf: (there's a handful of other extensions that might potentially be used to subvert that mechanism, but likewise they are not mandatory and can be disabled like XTEST) [23:44]
phf: if you simply load an x app, attach it to root, and start grabbing all the events then you can come to same conclusion as any random chick with a blog "omg all teh events" [23:44]
phf: but if you were to actually repeat that same exercise when gnupg pinentry is asking you for password you'll see that it doesn't work [23:45]
phf: it still works though when xterm is asking you for password because xterm doesn't know it's a password entry, and doesn't do a grab [23:45]
mircea_popescu: the cogent objection to x is that "design irrespective, something this fucking long can never be good." the redditard objection to x is "omaygerd, black chix code!" [23:45]
phf: never the less ~xterm~ specifically supports server grab for people who know what they are doing (i.e. not the lunix on desktop crowd) [23:46]
sina: phf: ok that is pretty interesting and I didn't know [23:46]
phf: but anyway, all of this is at all relevant why? because of the first things i said, i.e. x11 lets clients ~from network~ or ~from other users~ to connect to your session [23:46]
phf: those clients are isolated, in one case by machine, in the other case by unix isolation, and can't do the obvious thing, that is read the memory of your password requesting process directly [23:47]
phf: so you could, theoretically connect to a compromised ssh box, with your x11 tunneling enabled, and get a silent agent snooping your keyboard [23:47]
phf: and this is where we come to wayland [23:48]
phf: wayland "mitigates" keylogger issue by not fucking letting you start apps either as a remote user or ~even as a different user on same machine~ [23:48]
phf: so any wayland app that has access to your wayland session by the obvious implications can do the obvious thing: gpg encrypt all your files, steal all your passwords, and send compromising emails to all your friends, because as should be obvious that app has access to everything else you have access too oh my fucking god the level of retardation i can't even. [23:49]
mircea_popescu: phf's capacity to scale an explanation is well impressive. [23:50]
sina: sure, as can any application in the dac model [23:50]
sina: if you trust the software you can mitigate with whatever sandbox and if you don't then you need hw compartments, different issue [23:51]
sina: phf: finished? the discussion about server grab is appreciated. links to docs or examples appreciated also [23:52]
sina: !!rate phf 5 patient explanation of X server grab ( [23:53]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:36 phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh) [23:53]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [23:53]
phf: man XGrabKeyboard [23:54]
sina: !!v A07AB95DDCF240C19AECC10DB3102290DD17B353D9E3B04E88E8257368237C1E [23:54]
deedbot: sina rated phf 5 << patient explanation of X server grab ( [23:54]
sina: :'( [23:56]
mircea_popescu: but try the command line ? [23:58]
sina: mircea_popescu: commandline keepassx? [23:58]
mircea_popescu: man XGrabKeyboard [23:59]
sina: oh, yeah, I read through that, and wanted to see if the password manager I use was utilising it ala gpg pinentry that phf mentioned [23:59]
sina: tis not [23:59]
mircea_popescu: ah [23:59]
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