Forum logs for 14 Apr 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
hanbot: Keeping you in my thoughts mod6 [00:31]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in high performance lubrication, http://68.media.tumblr.com/3932bbda25a6fdabeef5c2c3164f8ee5/tumblr_oh3b2a4MHL1tgc11ao1_500.gif [01:33]
mod6: thanks hanbot [02:16]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the "sisters in focus with dicks in the background" farms, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a726cda44255b148a0a9b900f7babcd0/tumblr_ogse8xthTz1ucoif3o1_1280.jpg [08:54]
mircea_popescu: in other wins for "social justice" and just being a retard generally, pretty much every online game defaults to making your avatar brown-skinned with the next option being some sort of african black. because TOTALLY not a vast majority of white boys play these things, and there's ABSOLUTELY nothing ridiculous about a bunch of teenaged male drones going around with the equivalent of little gril pillows of themselves. [09:02]
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform set a squirrel trap on the roof but at night experienced squirrel sappers defused it and threw to the ground... [09:11]
mircea_popescu: hahaha! [09:12]
mod6: mircea_popescu: looks like the sisters are in az [10:41]
mircea_popescu: aha [10:41]
mod6: fg advanced test update: i've collected about 500Mb so far. ~half way there. [10:48]
mircea_popescu: how long's it been going ? [10:50]
mod6: eh, maybe like 18-20 hours? [10:53]
mircea_popescu: nb. [10:53]
mod6: with both of my RNG-TWs connected, it was collecting at about 7kB/s ... for that quick 10s test or so to ensure that it was a "full speed" [10:57]
mircea_popescu: aha [10:57]
trinque: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-13-apr-2017#2268878 << yep, turns out I pebkac'd, series of misunderstandings of how sendmany worked. got a tx out with double fee (0.0002), which still wasn't enough, so I've now double-spent that tx with a 0.0005 fee. [11:05]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-14 03:07 mircea_popescu: did you ever nail that issue trinque ? [11:05]
mircea_popescu: a kk [11:05]
Framedragger: doublespending double fees, this is bullish for ethereum [11:42]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-14#1643455 << 7K/s is indeed the rated minimal. [11:52]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-14 14:57 mod6: with both of my RNG-TWs connected, it was collecting at about 7kB/s ... for that quick 10s test or so to ensure that it was a "full speed" [11:52]
asciilifeform: in other 'news', bbet still dead!1111 [12:04]
trinque: pretty sure it was dead sometime last year [12:19]
asciilifeform: trinque: for how long, do you recall ? [12:20]
trinque: !!gettrust znort987 [12:20]
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections. [12:20]
trinque: just making a general comment about the guy not having much of a wot presence [12:20]
asciilifeform: 0 proper presence afaik. [12:20]
asciilifeform: znort could be literally anybody. [12:21]
asciilifeform: nothing of any interest whatsoever, is, afaik, publicly known about this character. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: did he lose his ancient keyh or not have one or what was it ? [12:22]
asciilifeform: somebody (iirc mircea_popescu, even) advanced a hypothesis, last year, that znort is a purchased key [12:22]
asciilifeform: (or confiscated, or otherwise changed hands.) [12:23]
mircea_popescu: got a link or nething ? [12:23]
trinque: can't tell him from adam, or usg.gamblingprohee [12:23]
asciilifeform: digging nao [12:23]
davout: key's in wot [12:24]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-01#1460232 << related lulz [12:24]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-01 17:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda too lazy to deedbot a list of the various spots in logs where the fact that bitbet keeps no logs was discussed. seems about 99 and 3/4% that the whole point there was to create an entry point for later parallel construction, "o look what bitbet logs show". [12:24]
trinque: !!key znort987 [12:24]
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/9F1C2534ACEE115E18EF02A5FD5AA2A5E26602B0.asc [12:24]
mircea_popescu: how much was the pot, did anyone figure it out ? [12:26]
mircea_popescu: heh/ [12:36]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/If4Gx [12:36]
mircea_popescu: so like 27 bets worth a few pennies each, maaaybe 5-10 btc total ? [12:38]
mircea_popescu: seems somewhat unlikely a dude that paid 100 btc for it last year would run off with 10. [12:38]
asciilifeform: maybe not so much 'ran off with' but unplugged. [12:38]
asciilifeform: 'fuck it all'. [12:38]
mircea_popescu: could as well have cancelled the bets then. takes what, coupla hours. [12:39]
ben_vulpes: "modern banking is wholly owned subsidiary of usg" "what? no it's not" "yes it is: https://medium.com/@msuiche/the-nsa-compromised-swift-network-50ec3000b195" "...oh but that's different somehow" [12:39]
mircea_popescu: heh [12:39]
asciilifeform: and not '10 btc total', the new alphago one just by itself is worth ~17 btc [12:39]
mircea_popescu: ah [12:39]
mircea_popescu: i skimmed. [12:39]
asciilifeform: it ain't a mega-fortune, but also not penny on asphalt. [12:40]
mircea_popescu: i guess tis possible. [12:40]
asciilifeform: 'A SWIFT Service Bureau, is the kind-of the equivalent of the Cloud for Banks when it comes to their SWIFT transactions and messages, the banks transactions are hosted and managed by the SWIFT Service Bureau via an Oracle Database and the SWIFT Softwares. This is why we see that many of those Service Bureau also offer KYC, Compliance, Anti-Laundering services since they have access to all those transactions as their are the host for [12:44]
asciilifeform: their clients.' << lulzy. [12:44]
asciilifeform: also run moar winxp. [12:45]
mircea_popescu: no, oracle, totally different. [12:47]
asciilifeform: lul [12:47]
asciilifeform: seems like they use... both [12:47]
mircea_popescu: twice the safety. [12:47]
asciilifeform: ( sorta like contracting hiv + hepc ) [12:47]
davout: seems unlikely dude just ran off with ~20 btc [12:49]
asciilifeform: could have, say, died. [12:50]
davout: at least if you plan on doing that, at least keep the site up and maximize profit by collecting more [12:50]
davout: or just, on a week end [12:50]
lobbes: In other noose: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gbu-43b-mother-of-all-bombs-massive-ordnance-air-blast-afghanistan-isis-a7682996.html [12:52]
asciilifeform: lobbes: gotta wonder why this is 'news'. similar ordnance was used by brits in ww2, many times [12:52]
asciilifeform: (it isn't even a gas-air bomb. regular one.) [12:52]
asciilifeform: under bush II, gas bombs were in use, spectacular fireballs, many pr photos [12:53]
asciilifeform: (~0, afaik, results on the field) [12:53]
mircea_popescu: that's good for usgcoin! [12:54]
asciilifeform: and re bbet, hey mircea_popescu , recall http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-12#1520195 thread ? [12:55]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-12 23:17 mircea_popescu: nobody asked you anything of how bitbet's capital is to be used by bitbet. [12:55]
asciilifeform: one possibility is that znorta gambled the coins -- and lost. [12:55]
asciilifeform: corzine-style. [12:55]
mircea_popescu: i suppose. [12:55]
asciilifeform: *znort [12:55]
asciilifeform: that's one handy way to 'accidentally' scam. [12:56]
Framedragger: not arranging if-hit-by-bus switch is irresponsible, hrm [13:00]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger what % of an operation do you deem should be allocated to pay for that arrangement ? [13:04]
mircea_popescu: (pro tip : the cost comes out of the fee.) [13:04]
Framedragger: out of the fee which is 0? [13:04]
mircea_popescu: so then. [13:04]
asciilifeform: waiwat, it was 0 ?! [13:04]
Framedragger: bitbet was/is profitable. [13:04]
Framedragger: payout fee, he means [13:05]
mircea_popescu: this "i'm not paying for the drinks and not having better ones is irresponsible" thing only goes so far. [13:05]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so if it was 1% of 17 btc that's 200 bux or so ? [13:05]
mircea_popescu: if you think "switch" as described may cost as much as 1% of the total cost structure, voila, he has a $2 arrangement in place. [13:05]
Framedragger: 200 bux is not absolutely nothing, first off and second off, 17 btc? was that the profit in the last P&L? honestly don't remember [13:06]
mircea_popescu: ive not been following, guessing based on the alf provided number above. [13:06]
Framedragger: but i see the point, low profit. [13:06]
mircea_popescu: i think the concept carries irrespective. [13:06]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: really, do you think that 200bux is enough to 1) hire 2) retain a substitute operator ?! [13:06]
asciilifeform: or what arrangement did you picture as 'dead man switch' [13:06]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform $2. the remainder 198 are needed for other things. [13:07]
Framedragger: implementing a procedure to refund all bets if no signature by $key into $system, say. not that it's not easy to fuck this up royally. [13:07]
mircea_popescu: or have it hijacked. [13:07]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: you're talking about a 'bbet folds' button [13:07]
asciilifeform: ^ [13:07]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it [13:07]
mircea_popescu: you know, by the everfriendly usg, for instance. [13:07]
asciilifeform: ~having~ this device around, is a quite expensive proposition. [13:08]
Framedragger: maybe. [13:08]
mircea_popescu: or what, were you going to use an INDEPENDENT website ? [13:08]
Framedragger: i can think of couple of approaches but i agree that they are not zero-in-cost, so, meh, i concede [13:08]
mircea_popescu: do they deal well with "blackhole" ? [13:08]
asciilifeform: there are no sane robotic solutions to this kind of thing. [13:08]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no neither do they deal with EC backdoors or sun exploding. having a practical but limited-in-scope threat model is not useless in itself. [13:09]
Framedragger: anyway, i won't argue further. [13:09]
mircea_popescu: there are, more broadly and more sadly, no robotic human or alien solution s available to dealing with the usgtard to his satisfaction. because he's worth less than a pig and demands more than a duchess. [13:09]
mircea_popescu: dutches demanding less than a pig would be workable economcially. but chronical rotinculo/mortidafame who imagine they should get the moon on a golden platter, these aren't economically interesting. [13:11]
trinque: Framedragger: what recourse is there that doesn't involve exposing keys to more than one person, and why is that multiplied risk of absconding more agreeable to you than present circumstances? [13:12]
mircea_popescu: poor guy. [13:12]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: there is a very basic fallacy at the root of 'multisig thinking', that somehow you can cut up control over a key and give the pieces to a group, which somehow can 'keep the owner honest' but not (why not?) fuck him [13:12]
mircea_popescu: a Framedragger walks into a bar, and the bar goes WHAM! [13:12]
Framedragger: he tries to remedy but laptop battery dies. [13:14]
Framedragger: trinque: asciilifeform: i did naively 'assume' that one could think of an arrangement when 2-of-2 or similar signature scheme would be 'safe'. [13:16]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: describe for me, how this works [13:16]
asciilifeform: and what means 'safe'. [13:16]
Framedragger: (to be clear: machine-which-can-send-moneys has to sign, and operator has to sign as well. necessarily both.) [13:16]
Framedragger: 'safe' as in usg hacking into machine doesn't do anything. [13:17]
Framedragger: can't spend coin. [13:17]
Framedragger: wait. [13:17]
Framedragger: ah fuck [13:17]
asciilifeform: does scenario where the coins end up permanently parked in graveyard orbit because the operators refuse to move'em count as 'safety' to Framedragger ?! [13:17]
asciilifeform: aaaha. [13:17]
trinque: lel! there's the wham [13:17]
Framedragger: boy do i abuse this channel [13:17]
Framedragger: in consideration, machine + operator having keys is not a good idea and the risk is indeed multiplied. 2-of-2 sig doesn't work if one can do basic arithmetic. [13:18]
asciilifeform: there we go. [13:18]
Framedragger: yep, the only way this 'may' work if you have a partner whom you fully trust, and the arrangement of which somehow does not involve monetary compensation. which is ~untenable [13:19]
asciilifeform: these are typically called wives (and even they do not necessarily work as 'ideal spherical wife in textbook' always.) [13:20]
Framedragger: (larger profitable orgs may be able to implement this, with ample compensation, but, sure, not bbet.) [13:20]
Framedragger: yeah. [13:20]
asciilifeform: there is no such thing as purchased honesty, Framedragger [13:20]
asciilifeform: just like there is no hired suicide belt bomber [13:21]
Framedragger: heh re. latter, i'm sure there is ("pay my family suicide-money after my death") [13:21]
asciilifeform: it is never the whole incentive to do the work. [13:22]
Framedragger: nono, i agree. [13:22]
asciilifeform: ( ~all armies have some form of widow's pension ) [13:22]
trinque: no such thing as purchased, but probably such thing as "owned" [13:22]
* trinque would not be the expert [13:23]
Framedragger: re. purchased honesty, well i dunno, two business partners entering business arrangement.. that's a thing that happens (cue mp "as we have seen, it doesn't! so can't ever!1") [13:23]
trinque: I don't think that's an honest interpretation [13:23]
asciilifeform: multisig crapola is fundamentally about http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-27#1354404 . [13:23]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-27 17:38 asciilifeform: 'It is about sending a strong message. I think we may need to start an accreditation scheme for Bitcoin-consensus compliant wallets and services. Through code signing and use of multisig, we can even distinguish transactions made by compliant wallets and non-compliant wallets, and have pools not mine them (or wallets refuse to send to known-non-compliant wallets).' [13:23]
trinque: see: S.NSA [13:23]
Framedragger: trinque: i was being facetious. you're right of course [13:23]
asciilifeform: trinque: i dunno if this is obvious or not, we don't have multi-man keys of any sort at s.nsa [13:24]
trinque: nono, in re: partnering up in biz [13:25]
asciilifeform: the collaboration does not pretend to be a living thing on its own, separate from mircea_popescu and asciilifeform [13:25]
trinque: of course [13:25]
asciilifeform: see also thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-16#1522361 [13:25]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 13:09 mircea_popescu: oh since i'm thinking about it : there's two specific items tmsr wants to bring to the field of probate reform : a) no juridical person beneficiary. no government, ngo, corporation, trust etc may obtain as much as a farthing from any succession. physical persons only. b) no tax or fee of any kind may be levied against succession. [13:25]
* trinque was taking the shears to an overly broad statement. [13:25]
trinque: having separate identities is a sanity requirement of doing any business [13:26]
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/04/14/was-it-worth-it/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Was it worth it? [13:26]
asciilifeform: 278.73 BTC << notbad [13:28]
trinque: Framedragger: better odds for good outcome in business partnership if you had a preceeding relationship with the guy eh? [13:29]
asciilifeform: ( re multisig, see also, e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-10#1340332 . ) [13:29]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-10 14:26 asciilifeform: none of the idiot heresies are even in any sense new. 'multisig', for instance, is simply 1990s clinton key escrow, 'old wine in new bottle' [13:29]
Framedragger: trinque: didn't understand the reference hm, but (necessarily and totally) yes?.. [13:32]
* Framedragger bbl [13:32]
trinque: Framedragger: I'm disputing that business partnership is definitionally "purchased honesty" [13:51]
Framedragger: ah. yeah i concede/agree. [13:51]
asciilifeform: 'purchased honesties' give you, e.g., carl force. [13:52]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-14#1643576 << and let me guess, i'm supposed to expose this incredibly rare and expensive resource for the benefit of the redditard peons, who don't want to pay for it but DO want to make random claims because hey, gotta make a claim to exist and research of any description is way above their pay grade ? [14:13]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-14 17:19 Framedragger: yep, the only way this 'may' work if you have a partner whom you fully trust, and the arrangement of which somehow does not involve monetary compensation. which is ~untenable [14:13]
mircea_popescu: yes, some people have others who'd die for them. why the fuck would they let $rando into that club again ? [14:13]
mircea_popescu: what, some kind of "we're all gonna share things" ? [14:14]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-14#1643578 << no. AGAIN. large orgs ie your usg.* friends CAN NOT implement this. MPs can implemenrt this, ie men who beat women and keep slaves. they AND THEM ONLY may implement this. [14:15]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-14 17:20 Framedragger: (larger profitable orgs may be able to implement this, with ample compensation, but, sure, not bbet.) [14:15]
mircea_popescu: utter and complete monopoly, no bureaucracy may have the wonder in the future nor ever had it in the past. [14:15]
ben_vulpes: yeah who in fiatorg holds keys? controller? ceo? [14:18]
ben_vulpes: goes against the whole grain of how those systems work. single accountable individual with life and death power. [14:18]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-14#1643603 << holy, was that more than it held before ? [14:19]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-14 17:28 asciilifeform: 278.73 BTC << notbad [14:19]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski's arithmetic. i did not massage it. [14:19]
mircea_popescu: znort is female ? [14:20]
asciilifeform: he seems to think so. [14:20]
asciilifeform: ( i have nfi why ) [14:20]
mircea_popescu: there was a very talented (also female) scammer early on, made a "fund" called "obsi" something. very soft approach, also quietly disappeared. [14:21]
asciilifeform: very quietly. i dun recall any discussion of this. or maybe it was before i tuned in. [14:21]
mircea_popescu: was 2012 yes. [14:21]
asciilifeform: ( most of the chumpatronic 'wonders of the world' in btc seem to have happened prior to asciilifeform tuning in ) [14:21]
mircea_popescu: !#s "obsi" [14:22]
a111: 2894 results for "\"obsi\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22obsi%22 [14:22]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-03-20#-69718 [14:22]
a111: Logged on 2013-03-20 20:17 pigeons: usagi had 3 different risk profiles for his cdos, and he bought OBSI.HYPT (High Yield Pass Through into secret business model now run away with the money) in the EXTREMELY LOW RISK group [14:22]
asciilifeform: lul, 'high yield'+'low risk' [14:22]
mircea_popescu: hey, it is EXACTLY what the usg banking world did. [14:22]
asciilifeform: in kindergarten one learns that that's what defines scam [14:22]
mircea_popescu: they got bailed for it. [14:22]
asciilifeform: a very selected 'they', and - naturally - with fresh printolade [14:23]
asciilifeform: did anyone actually expect a similar event in btcdom ? [14:23]
asciilifeform: what would that even look like. [14:24]
mircea_popescu: yea well. [14:24]
asciilifeform: the quoted text is hilarious per se : if i say 'invest in this High Thrust antigrav engine, with Extremely Low Energy Cost energy intake' -- everyone will laugh. but if mr.suavetalker offers a 'High Yield Pass Through ... in the EXTREMELY LOW RISK group' financial instrument, greedy idiots jump over one another to buy,buy [14:26]
asciilifeform: with 0 demand of proof of whatever kind. [14:26]
asciilifeform: this is why, when reading about the early (1st 3 or so yrs) bitcoin landscape, i found it hard to feel any sympathy for the scamola victims [14:27]
mircea_popescu: it was a painful and sad process, being disabused of the notion that average human is capable to tribune (ie, maintain law, complicated discussion i won't go into) via the rota experiment AND the notion that average human is capable to praetor (ie, administer resoruces) via the whole bitcoin finance/investment/profits/etc thing. [14:28]
asciilifeform: they were willing participants in pyramids, it seems clear to me [14:28]
mircea_popescu: the disappointments to the latter are indeed far reaching. cosnider someone like say death & taxes, http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ [14:28]
mircea_popescu: man has a handle that suggests he groks it then has government steal his fucking business then goes on to... propiose & defend empire. [14:29]
mircea_popescu: it's just... people aren't made for this world they properly belong in the grave and not perambling ab out. [14:29]
mircea_popescu: but let's just say that mp started bitcoin cca 2011 as a very classical liberal. it didn't survive long. [14:32]
asciilifeform: on other hand, early bitcoin did not exactly attract 'cream of mankind' [14:33]
mircea_popescu: oh ? and why not ? [14:33]
asciilifeform: now this i do not know. [14:33]
asciilifeform: but it didn't. [14:33]
mircea_popescu: no, no, i mean on what do you base this assertion. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: seems to me assuming that it did attract the very cream of mankind is very safe indeed. [14:34]
asciilifeform: probably ought to be more specific : early ~public bitcoin~ atmosphere was not 'cream' of anything. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: and on what do you base yourself ? [14:34]
asciilifeform: ahahaha is this when mircea_popescu will explain that 'pirate is the cream, the ubermensch' ? [14:35]
mircea_popescu: looky, that you don't like what the cream looks like dun excuse you from having to admit. they found it, yes ? definitionally cream. [14:35]
mircea_popescu: ie, better than all the lazy fucks sitting on ass dreaming their jwz/djb dream [14:35]
mircea_popescu: but yes, i will say pirate, for all his warts, dpb, fucktarded ustard teen as he was, and the whole rest of the menagerie are better people than pick your pick. obama. hillary. nuland. whatever 5k dickless drones are sitting around wash dc offices reading this now. all of everyone [14:36]
mircea_popescu: certainly better than any subhuman africans toiling with the donkeys. [14:36]
mircea_popescu: and on it goes. [14:36]
mircea_popescu: the sad, dirty secret of humanity is that the very cream of it ain't fit to shine shoes. [14:37]
asciilifeform: hilaries ain't cream of anything. [14:37]
asciilifeform: nor gorbys. [14:37]
asciilifeform: fundamentally just another sort of pirate40. [14:37]
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you. [14:37]
asciilifeform: likewise i suspect that mircea_popescu's (or, say, mark twain's) positive view of 'good con men' is also 'fata morgana', mirage, con men is not necessarily a 'force of will' ubermensch, he is every bit a creature of the times and the opportunity, the rat crevice in which he finds himself, as is any clinton. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: i was not proposing anything of the sorty. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: i was simply saying, thr 50 that found the door are definitionally and for that reason alone better than all the others. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: there is no "oh, i was busy with my dick" excuse to explain why couldn't find way out of paper bag. [14:41]
asciilifeform: mno. if a broken oak trunk made its way from europe to 'new world' pre columbus, it does not follow that oak is great navigator. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: what, you expect kakobrekla will be remembered for anything other than "oh, the dude who couldn't swing being part of bitbet" ? for what exactly, he's gonna accomplish what in his life to compensate for that failure, cold fucking fusion ? [14:42]
mircea_popescu: there's very little leeway in teh cold equations for the usual human bullshit. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it does so follow, yes. [14:42]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure d00d transitioned to 'model airplane' mode, and has no intention of 'remembered' [14:42]
mircea_popescu: yawell. he is not in charge of his own life in this sense. what intentions he has matter not one wit. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: conceivably quisling also had "no intention of being remembered". [14:44]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a man can be a navigator. a piece of dead wood -- is, whatever else it is, not a navigator. i did not think this would be controversial. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: it is controversial. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: hanbot no way ?! [14:44]
mircea_popescu: common italian word wtf. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: oh i misspelled it did i. [14:44]
asciilifeform: waiwat [14:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall naggum's (and then -- our) discussion re how computing was wrecked not so much by microshit per se (which in 1980s was not a mega-power) but by the idiot worship of gates and his lottery winner 'success' ? [14:46]
mircea_popescu: ok ? [14:46]
asciilifeform: it is exactly the oak. [14:46]
mircea_popescu: it really dun make difference if "one got lucky". symbolics is still dead ON ITS OWN MERITS. [14:47]
mircea_popescu: this because "luck" and skill are indistinguishable for the unskilled. [14:47]
asciilifeform: 'was scum, but he grabbed the brass ring, where were you' gives you cockroach world. [14:47]
mircea_popescu: there's no way out of it. grab the brass ring, there's no way to excuse it. [14:49]
asciilifeform: incidentally, putting up framed pictures of lottery winners, praying at their feet, etc. does nothing per se, is harmless. it is when n00bs begin to try to 'learn' from them, there comes problem. [14:49]
asciilifeform: the microshit thing was a civilization-scale disaster, and it continues. [14:49]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure there's right now all sorts of ~in their own mind~ important smart useful whatever folk. they're not in the wot, they don't exist, and this inexistence of theirs WILL COUNT AGAINST THEM [14:50]
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> dutches demanding less than a pig would be workable economcially. but chronical rotinculo/mortidafame who imagine they should get the moon on a golden platter, these aren't economically interesting. << googled rotinculo definition, got a suggestion of trilema articles to read [14:50]
mircea_popescu: where were you is the first legitimate question. [14:50]
mircea_popescu: hanbot :p [14:50]
hanbot: s'about a 50% chance a googling a given unknown word in a #t article yields...just moar t articles. [14:50]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and the answer can be 'i was in the laboratory, creating the things that the scum later stole' [14:50]
mircea_popescu: it's a maaaan's world.... [14:50]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and maybe we'll opt to credit this. or maybe we won't. [14:50]
mircea_popescu: shoulda followed the topic. the topic is there for a reason. [14:51]
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's conception, only a thief is 'a man' ? [14:51]
mircea_popescu: gotta pass bacalaureat before may even consider going tinto laboratory. [14:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. in mp's conception, lab does not take all comers. [14:51]
mircea_popescu: EVEN if they think it does. [14:51]
asciilifeform: expand plox [14:51]
mircea_popescu: in order for item to go into lab, item must first pass maturity exam. become man as opposed to child. See http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ is there for a reason. [14:52]
asciilifeform: hanbot: at one point i tried to unearth what rotinculos (other than a portmanteau, presumably, rotten arse) were , and gave up [14:53]
mircea_popescu: that reason is, "infantile delusion of having been in lab before completing the basic steps ARE NAUGHT BUT INFANTILE DELUSIONS."\ [14:53]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's about what you'd call a twink in english, ie a teenaged gay prostitute. generally applied to the aged variant nobody anymore seriously contemplates paying for. [14:53]
mircea_popescu: literally "broken in the ass". [14:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was not a tmsr in '09. bitcoin was quite equivalent, by afaik any possible litmus, to similar crackpotteries which were known then. [14:53]
hanbot: aha! [14:53]
mircea_popescu: but today there is. [14:53]
asciilifeform: i thought thread was re: the age of the great pirates. [14:54]
asciilifeform: rather than today. [14:54]
mircea_popescu: that was 2012. [14:54]
asciilifeform: no tmsr in '12 either [14:54]
mircea_popescu: and you know what, that "there wasn't" is scarcely any excuse. why didn't they make it, these MEN ? if they're so respectable and errything. [14:54]
asciilifeform: why didn't h. hertz make a radio ? [14:55]
asciilifeform: or , better, maxwell . [14:55]
mircea_popescu: what, you think i'm excusing him in my mind ? i'm not. fuck him. [14:55]
asciilifeform: btw marconi was a pretty good example of 'opportunistic thief' [14:55]
asciilifeform: exactly the gates of his time [14:55]
mircea_popescu: i am also not impressed with wozniak's teary stories. [14:56]
asciilifeform: nor i [14:56]
mircea_popescu: shoulda been less fucktarded. [14:56]
asciilifeform: wozniak wasn't an originator of anything serious [14:56]
mircea_popescu: there isn't going to be a divine kingdom of the heavens insulating dumb bitches from their inept choices in locales to get drunk into and badly washed dorks from their inept choices in whom to submit to and what to obey. [14:56]
mircea_popescu: you eat too much, you get fat you jwz, you get pissed on. shouldn't be so hard. [14:57]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to hear him recount it, he was the maxwell/hertz of job's marconi or some such. [14:57]
asciilifeform: and to hear the inmates, in every asylum - 100 napoleons [14:58]
mircea_popescu: so then. [14:58]
asciilifeform: woz drew up a 6502 box with slightly reduced glue logic chip count, vs the state of art at the time. about same level of accomplishment as, e.g., fuckgoats. [14:58]
asciilifeform: not a maxwell, no. [14:58]
mircea_popescu: the overarching point is that technical merit doesn't enter into this. [14:58]
mircea_popescu: and i have every intention to credit everything to the first wot person to bring it up, not to the "originator". fuck him. should have had a wot. [14:59]
asciilifeform: thread wasn't about 'which one gets into valhalla, maxwell or marconi', however. i specifically assert that n00bs ~learning~ from the thief -- whose achievement is essentially accidental, quite destructive overall to everybody else, and at any rate in no sense ~replicable~ -- vs from the maxwell - is the problem. [15:00]
mircea_popescu: noobs learning from anything, be it a thief, be it their mother, be it hillary clinton, be it bernstein, be it ANYONE is very harmful to them. [15:00]
mircea_popescu: See http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ is there for a reason. there's NO OTHERR WAY to learn. [15:01]
asciilifeform: can learn , e.g., galois theory, from the l0gz ? [15:01]
asciilifeform: how about mig pilotage ? [15:01]
mircea_popescu: you do not start with galois theoryu. [15:01]
mircea_popescu: and you MAY NOT pretend you're not at the start if you are at the start. [15:02]
mircea_popescu: there's no self-appointed graduation. [15:02]
asciilifeform: you start with alphabet. which i dun recall being taught here, either [15:02]
mircea_popescu: on occasion. see [15:02]
mircea_popescu: !#s alphabet [15:02]
a111: 147 results for "alphabet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=alphabet [15:02]
asciilifeform: ( and if only alphabet. there is a quite serious qualification to meaningfully starting to learn from the l0gz, yes ) [15:02]
mircea_popescu: it's self contained. you learn what you need by confronting the things here you don't know. [15:03]
mircea_popescu: this "oh, but mp, i'm interested in other things, i'm speshul" is more adlaism bullshit. THERE AREN'T OTHER THINGS. [15:03]
asciilifeform: we had, iirc, a 'problems of the age' thread [15:04]
mircea_popescu: i think so. [15:04]
asciilifeform: ( where, e.g. in 1890s they were flight, radio, few other lessers ) [15:04]
asciilifeform: today - 'trb-i', ciphers of known strength, a few others. [15:05]
asciilifeform: it is not even clear which these are, except in retrospect. [15:05]
asciilifeform: ( if 1890s folx had given up on airplane, same way today's grant-eaters gave up on, e.g., room-temp superconductor, could have gone quite differently ) [15:06]
asciilifeform: btw the 'beta decay can be arbitrarily sped up in magnetic field' throws a bit of new light on just how 'strange, new' a world with roomtemp supercon would be. [15:08]
asciilifeform: ( suddenly you have, e.g., an intrinsically-safe (cut the field - cuts the reaction) betavoltaic reactor that fits in pocket, runs on ordinary KCl... ) [15:08]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/04/french-financial-regulatorast-fines-payment-service-provider-over-bitcoin-business/ << Qntra - French Financial Regulatorast Fines Payment Service Provider Over Bitcoin Business [15:12]
asciilifeform: 'failure to collect KYC paperwork for 34 customers, failure to report 9 customers to legal enforcement on suspicions of money laundering, and failure to further interrogate 20 customers, for which the declared wealth allegedly didn't match the transaction volumes.' << lol! [15:13]
mircea_popescu: heh [15:13]
mircea_popescu: "aml/kyc" is for the birds, to be very plain. [15:13]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would anyone deal with the sort of schmucks that do thjat in the first place, i have no idea. [15:13]
asciilifeform: 'why would anyone' live on boiled cabbage, wear a striped pajama all year long ? maybe because in a prison ? [15:14]
mircea_popescu: i guess. [15:14]
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> why the fuck would anyone deal with the sort of schmucks that do thjat in the first place, i have no idea. << sure you do, people just love easy-to-complete tasks that earn them an "everything's okay" signal from authority. even if that authority consists of a crayon-drawn badge paperclipped to dork's lapel @ supermarket exit. [15:24]
mircea_popescu: there is htat. [15:24]
mircea_popescu: the grues won't come to eat them in the night eh. [15:25]
Framedragger: !!up airgapped [15:29]
deedbot: airgapped voiced for 30 minutes. [15:29]
mircea_popescu: and in other guides for noobs, http://68.media.tumblr.com/3d93c7f98cd625c06261e4143016bbbc/tumblr_oc9mfsRLOZ1vrs34so1_400.gif [15:29]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does there in fact exist a 'free world' of non-kyctronic fiatola banking ? [15:31]
mircea_popescu: sure. [15:31]
asciilifeform: ( ...china? ) [15:32]
mircea_popescu: yep. [15:32]
davout: in china even bitcoins are locked down [15:32]
asciilifeform: davout: goxcoins [15:32]
asciilifeform: ( how would you 'lock down bitcoin' lol ) [15:32]
davout: tell exchanges "don't send them, or else" [15:32]
davout: see http://qntra.net/2017/04/30-day-constipation-of-chinese-fiatbitcoin-interfaces-continues-well-beyond-30-days/ [15:33]
mircea_popescu: you can lift a million in cash off the chinese doing supermarkets offshore for instance, on a few hour's notice. [15:33]
mircea_popescu: all sorts of things work as cp, including bitcoin, heads of usg "operatives", etc. [15:34]
asciilifeform: davout: ergo goxcoin [15:35]
asciilifeform: if you didn't generate the privkey for it -- it ain't bitcoin [15:35]
asciilifeform: this strange notion, that you can have a 'your' bitcoin where privkey is held by somebody else, is a serious problem imho. [15:36]
* Framedragger developing product to make real estate investment for chinese easier, actually. will report results and types of failure if any and if possible.. [15:36]
mircea_popescu: for my curiosity, are you developing this "product" because a chinese dude told you so ? [15:37]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i can hardly picture how it could be any easier, iirc they already de facto own ~all real estate anywhere that is for sale [15:37]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: chinese and other (e.g., south korean) bankers told a dude whom i believe in and who's paying me [15:37]
mircea_popescu: works then [15:38]
davout: asciilifeform: they're being forced not to honor IOUs to be very precise [15:39]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: plenty of real estate in western yurop still up for sale. a *lot* of it may crash soon, but 'pockets' of it (e.g., specific places in italy (which in itself may / will crash, depending on your outlook) may be good investment, and they acknowledge that [15:39]
Framedragger: ) [15:39]
Framedragger: (obvs if this 'works out' -- remains to be seen...) [15:42]
asciilifeform: davout: from my (admittedly distant) chair, it'd appear that chinese gov strategy was, roughly, 'this bitcoin heresy, let's wait for the americans to kill it, it's the kind of wetwork they specialize in'. and when this failed, now they smell burning flesh, 'looks like gotta do everything ourselves' [15:42]
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/pseudopods/ [15:53]
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/jocasta/ [15:53]
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/ermine-shadow/ [15:54]
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/zoorp/ [15:55]
mircea_popescu: o wow they got active huh [15:56]
Framedragger: hah transcendent sex academy.. so in that realm in the comic, when dude puts transcendentally-ideal penis in vagina.. is that the infamous 'synthetic a priori' act?? [15:59]
* Framedragger tried to joke [15:59]
asciilifeform: modern chinese gov is smarter than mao's, won't hamhandedly dekulakize, nationalize the mining farms. will instead drive them slightly farther into -ev , and they will simply be sold off to pliant shell corps [15:59]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think I just got forgetful. Weather's been good for playing in dirt. [16:04]
CompanionCube: mircea_popescu: you run mysql right? [17:58]
CompanionCube: http://riddle.link/ [17:58]
ben_vulpes: > Are you blind? Don't you see the above logo? It is an indisputable fact that it is a critical vulnerability available on the Internet. [18:49]
ben_vulpes: god i hate this shit [18:49]
mod6: heheh [20:09]
mircea_popescu: CompanionCube mp-wp for instance. [20:10]
mircea_popescu: "How do I use SSL encryption properly?" "SSL (resp. TLS, as SSL v2/v3 is already broken but name SSL is commonly used for TLS protocol) implementation or protocol itself isn't affected" [20:38]
mircea_popescu: i lulzed. really ? how about DO NOT USE "SSL". [20:38]
ben_vulpes: b-but mircea_popescu how is one supposed to authenticate to a database server over the webternet? [20:39]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes who exactly is this guy anyway ? [20:39]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any other way. [20:39]
ben_vulpes: who, CompanionCube ? [20:39]
mircea_popescu: yes. [20:39]
ben_vulpes: new blood [20:40]
asciilifeform: iirc a lurker/reader. was also the d00d who wrote to asciilifeform re the bolix genera thing. [20:40]
mircea_popescu: that doesnt tell me anything. do you personalyl know him ? [20:40]
asciilifeform: i certainly do not. [20:41]
ben_vulpes: nope not i [20:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so far doing the whole "hey guise i can google plox like me" schtick which is getting on my nerves. [20:41]
ben_vulpes: Framedragger also guilty of this in spades [20:41]
asciilifeform: well the original tip from him was re an item that was not indexed by any (afaik) searcher. [20:41]
asciilifeform: but i know 0 else about CompanionCube . or the other one, whose name escapes me [20:42]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes at least re him i have some idea [20:42]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform doppler? [20:42]
asciilifeform: aha! [20:42]
* CompanionCube is hapy to leave if you want [20:43]
mircea_popescu: yes, please do. [20:43]
CompanionCube: Very well. Be seeing you if and when you succeed at your goals. [20:45]
mircea_popescu: dork. he's found who to escalate with. [20:46]
asciilifeform: was there more to this exchange than visible here ? [20:46]
mircea_popescu: nope. [20:47]
asciilifeform: where escalated ? [20:47]
mircea_popescu: where it blew up in his face, yes ? [20:47]
asciilifeform: ( tangentially -- i have nfi, to this day, why 'hi, i'm a lurker' needs to sit logged in. can read logs ! ) [20:48]
mircea_popescu: i have nfi when "i can't commit to existing" became socially acceptable. we used to laugh at the drones who couldn't commit to mariage 30 years ago, then i fell asleep in front of the silver screen post blowjob and i wake up... suddenly it's everywhere. [20:49]
mircea_popescu: "who are you ?" "sorry i can't say because really i want to be a dragon and you'll laugh." [20:50]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it's the safe and easy space in between "i am a gentoo nerd and have an irc bouncer" and "i am willing to undertake gpg key mgmt as the basis of identity" [20:50]
mircea_popescu: who knew the difficulty there isn't technical. [20:51]
mircea_popescu: like lyf! [20:51]
ben_vulpes: doesn't strike me as a "needs" thing. will be a "can" thing for as long as mircea_popescu refrains from turning the lights on and setting +i or whichever arcane fleanode flag [20:52]
mircea_popescu: wait, what ? [20:52]
ben_vulpes: for as long as randos can join #trilema and lurk they will do so instead of reading the logs [20:55]
mircea_popescu: ah, so let them, what. [20:56]
ben_vulpes: who knows if they even read their bouncer's scrollback instead of cycling through fifteen channels marking them as read in some inane, personal score-keeping game [20:56]
mircea_popescu: afaik this is common. here's where mp shares a little personal tidbit : [20:57]
mircea_popescu: the slavegirls are rarely solo when we meet. generally they're in a committed relationship / engaged / whatever. about half the time the beta in question is the "graduate student" type who compulsively answers questions on quora etc. [20:57]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu described this, in the 'golden helicopter' thread [20:58]
mircea_popescu: ah i did ? ok then. /me passes by reference. [20:58]
ben_vulpes: may i have a concrete pointer s'il vous plait? [20:59]
ben_vulpes: exceptionally short thread omg [21:04]
mircea_popescu: lol which [21:04]
ben_vulpes: "golden helicopter" [21:04]
mircea_popescu: well i mean how long's it gonna be. [21:05]
mircea_popescu: what's missing to your taste ben_vulpes ? [21:05]
mircea_popescu: all i'm sayin' is that as batshing insane as it may sound on the face, i have personal experience with the ample supply of "cycling through fifteen channels marking them as read in some inane, personal score-keeping game". [21:06]
ben_vulpes: more on the "compulsively answers questions on quora" [21:06]
mircea_popescu: "i did 9k wikipedia spelling corrections this year" "you mean the year gaping as a hole in your employment history ?" "oh, that's not important. progress! revolution! everything is connected! ubi!" [21:06]
mircea_popescu: or ufi or what's it called. [21:06]
ben_vulpes: "universal fuckwit income" [21:07]
mircea_popescu: !~google "the promise, eagerly offered, the hope, eagerly swallowed" [21:07]
mircea_popescu: or vice-versa. [21:07]
mircea_popescu: ie http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-93.0-93.266 [21:10]
ben_vulpes: i watched some related lols play out with 'poly' friends this year. $girl couldn't bring herself to break it off with her wikipedia editor, $guy didn't offer the platform to which to jump or demand the jump, tension built and $girl doubled down on the socialistoid anxiety production machines to everyone's dismay [21:12]
mircea_popescu: i believe it. [21:13]
mircea_popescu: in fact i expect it's the principal engine powering the sjtarded jeneration. [21:13]
mircea_popescu: (romanian pun, trading on the difference between jenant ie pathetic and generation ie whatever) [21:13]
phf: i've met him on another irc channel where he was equally non-contributing to an overall low snr. i was curious if he will maybe step up here, but nope doing exactly the same thing. the whole thing is reminiscent of the catv, a channel full of companioncubes [21:14]
asciilifeform: how does '9k wikipedia spelling corrections' appeal, is what i wonder. why not also walk around picking up rubbish from side of the road. [21:14]
asciilifeform: moar useful. [21:14]
mircea_popescu: well maybe the experience of gazing upon the stony face of his father that he never had will promote some personal growth. [21:15]
mircea_popescu: either that or masturbatory fantasies of an "improved trilema" with "moar freedom" of the "our democracy" type. [21:15]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they do [21:15]
mircea_popescu: !~google "let's do it romania" [21:15]
mircea_popescu: is jv broken or what [21:15]
ben_vulpes: i biked by a gaggle of old women doing precisely this a few weeks ago [21:15]
ben_vulpes: hey who wants to tell me that biking fucked my back up [21:16]
doppler: I wonder how many wikipedia editors are elderly women [21:16]
mircea_popescu: i expect about half are white, unsexed, males in their 30s +- 8 years. [21:17]
doppler: that sounds about right [21:17]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes go swimming moar bike less. and if you do bike, do 15% inclines rather than long bs. [21:18]
ben_vulpes: hm swimming [21:28]
ben_vulpes: well there's a whole world of coordination i've never really explored [21:29]
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they do for healthcare where you live, but swimming is the thing for bad backs like fucking is the thing for pimples. [21:30]
ben_vulpes: we don't have healthcare [21:31]
ben_vulpes: we have health insurance [21:31]
mircea_popescu: ah ok then [21:31]
asciilifeform: 'colt45 health-and-life insurance co.' [21:31]
ben_vulpes: you pay a shitload of money and then try to never make a claim [21:31]
ben_vulpes: make friends with girls in nursing school is probably the only mitigating strat [21:32]
mircea_popescu: motherfucker [22:11]
mircea_popescu: this is the third fucking flask i buy, set some alcohol in, and it rots. [22:11]
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is so hard about making a surgical steel flask rather than obscure zamaks [22:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rust?! [22:12]
mircea_popescu: not even, just oxidation. [22:12]
asciilifeform: aint no such thing as 'just oxidation' [22:12]
mircea_popescu: i suppose the rotguts they drink don't suffer or something [22:12]
asciilifeform: what colour is it [22:12]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform white [22:12]
mircea_popescu: i expect tin oxide. [22:13]
asciilifeform: i was about to say [22:13]
asciilifeform: Fe dun turn white. [22:13]
mircea_popescu: sure tastes like it. [22:13]
asciilifeform: ugh [22:13]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it's somewhat sad how the mainstreamization of "polyamorous" became "i'm too worthless to demand the girl and will use being too poor as an excuse to notice how stupid i am". [22:49]
mircea_popescu: for the record, bums with no income and college degrees living in squalor aren't "participating in a polyamorous lifestyle". [22:49]
mircea_popescu: and in "markov chains today", https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1859970.0all [23:18]
mircea_popescu: !!up gabriel_laddel_p [23:53]
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes. [23:53]
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632244 < people are going to want their emacs configs anyways while they make the transition & there is still a lot of functionality to be stolen from the sources. Also, emacs is an editor, so you can fix CLIM issues while it is frozen, which one could not with a "x11 window". [23:58]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 03:17 phf: my solutions to problems like that don't usually involve "bring in a 40mb package". i'd write a top level handler, that shows a modal x11 based repl/restart machinery. sort of poor man's genera [23:58]
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: how goes. [23:59]
mircea_popescu: not bad. [23:59]
Category: Logs
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