Forum logs for 31 May 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [07:47]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [07:47]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [07:47]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [07:47]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [07:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep. [07:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230300 @ 0.00031052 = 71.5128 BTC [+] {4} [07:59]
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cazalla http://rt.com/usa/263473-nyc-subway-manspreading-arrests/ [08:35]
mircea_popescu heh. [08:40]
mircea_popescu the article misrepresents what's going on. this is quite likely "broken windows" ideology. [08:40]
mircea_popescu apparently ny has a major problem with gangs. [08:40]
cazalla "According to reports, the NYPD has allegedly issued more than 1,400 summons for manspreading this year" [08:41]
cazalla that's some gang [08:42]
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chetty jeeze next they will arrest folks for taking up too much space cause they are fat ..hmm maybe not such a bad idea :P [08:50]
mircea_popescu cazalla nah it's just, as the gulf between society and government widens, the ability of society to maintain social order decays. people start taking it upon themselves to provide for their own security, the most vulnerable groups (foreign language speaking, poor immigrants) overstot, which induces negative reactions in the public, [08:55]
mircea_popescu which makes the police become more aggressive which increases the perceived need of the plebs to act tough, [08:55]
mircea_popescu which spirals into doom. [08:55]
mircea_popescu by now everyone's a gang of one. [08:55]
cazalla and the poor bastards just needed a bit of room for their balls [08:56]
mircea_popescu which is a sad state of affairs given the history of new york [08:56]
mircea_popescu that city exists primarily because of its renowedly incredible ability to diffuse social tension. [08:56]
cazalla article mentions the homicide rate is up so that fits [08:57]
chetty apparently its up all over the US, more evidence of social breakdown [08:58]
mircea_popescu ability probably typified by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc9-rYBOS5w [08:58]
mircea_popescu but nobody's going aaaaaaaa! anymore. [08:58]
mircea_popescu in other news at 10mn hits / 7mn pages may 2015 stands as trilema's largest month. tananana. [09:01]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-05-2015#1148758 << da fuck is that omg. [09:05]
assbot Logged on 30-05-2015 21:24:11; BingoBoingo: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ud7KxL0u--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/q07zwqccwnzkinanp8bg.jpg [09:05]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-05-2015#1148782 << there is a possibility that your daughters may have foond their way by themselves, especially if they be tall dwarvettes. [09:06]
assbot Logged on 30-05-2015 23:09:48; funkenstein_: if you was a dwarf i would send thanks by sending my daughters over [09:06]
mircea_popescu so take heart of ironwood my friendly lumberjack. [09:07]
mircea_popescu https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=joshua+dratel&complete=0&prmd=ivns&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w << and i see it as the 2nd result, too. [09:10]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148790 << asylum, lol [09:12]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 00:38:16; williamdunne: Anyone got some good reading material to suggest? Novels preferred [09:12]
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cazalla page 4 on down under google and with that, zzz [09:12]
mircea_popescu nn [09:13]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes. [09:15]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 02:04:22; asciilifeform: (one of my early, unreleased experiments had a disconnector that tripped when we learn that the node we're syncing from is spewing orphans above threshold. perhaps time to bring this back ?) [09:15]
mircea_popescu with a time decay, with a penalty for sending bad blocks and a positive for sending good blocks at a good speed. [09:15]
mircea_popescu say something like : every bad block received, -10 points. every minute where connection is kept at 80% of its allocated bw or over, 1 point. every hour score decays 1% towards 0, be it either positive or negative. [09:17]
mircea_popescu then it could allocate 1/n of its available bandwidth to each available peer, and disconnect peer under a threshold [09:18]
mircea_popescu ideally bw_threshold, dc_threshold, bad_block_penalty, per_minute_salary could all be settable via config file. [09:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://nosuchlabs.com/dupes << useful. [09:21]
mircea_popescu i don't think anyone had before a way to "check all the keys i've signed" on one page. [09:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60890 @ 0.00031795 = 19.36 BTC [+] {2} [09:23]
mircea_popescu can it somehow be structured to serve that purpose ? as a dump it's ok for now because it's short, but by the time the entire db is processed it will be a gb or some shit. maybe make it a list of entries of the format "name fragment", "first 32 characters in base 64'd modulus" [09:24]
mircea_popescu where name fragment is a 32 character match across the users textfield [09:24]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148870 << imagine that a windows user managed to pull a disappearing act. [09:26]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 03:01:54; decimation: it's amusing that satoshi re-implemented MFC classes in his little util.* stuff. he was definitely a winblows VC++ guy [09:26]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148873 << for the record, i suspect these may well be two different items. [09:26]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 03:03:55; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu this is yet another attribute of the animal we are hunting (the yet-undiscovered diddled pgp client.) almost certainly it shows the claimed fp rather than the actual. [09:26]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148879 << this is a complicated problem, in part because the spec isn't terribru good. [09:27]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 03:05:20; decimation: imma clearly label the particles of shit in yer wine [09:27]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [09:35]
gribble Current Blocks: 358801 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 46 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 7 hours, 43 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47427773469.2 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.82685 [09:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79653 @ 0.00032505 = 25.8912 BTC [+] {2} [10:25]
mircea_popescu and the harmonic series has, of course, no closed form solution [10:30]
mircea_popescu bloody fucking useless math of this world i swear. [10:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85925 @ 0.00032359 = 27.8045 BTC [-] [10:32]
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fluffypony oh mircea_popescu you're famouze [10:39]
mircea_popescu i am ? [10:39]
fluffypony and apparently Gavin can't spell your name [10:39]
fluffypony http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37xxmj/gavin_is_being_too_divisive_core_devs_need_to/crqsf4l?context=3 [10:39]
fluffypony "Mirceau Popescue" [10:39]
mircea_popescu lmao [10:39]
mircea_popescu what's with all the extra vowels people seem to need ? am i too swedish or something ? [10:39]
fluffypony Haagen-Popescue [10:40]
mircea_popescu hwrothwar hwrothwarsson ? [10:40]
fluffypony lol [10:40]
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williamdunne mircea_popescu: Any pro tips for while I'm in Bucharest? [11:15]
mircea_popescu don't use the scummy people trying to trick tourists into using their "cabs" at the airport ; insist the masseuse actually sucks you off ; avoid street food [11:16]
williamdunne Actually on that note, and particularly good places to eat? [11:17]
mircea_popescu i could never stand bucharest. i think i spent a total of a week there in my entire life. shittiest town in romania. so i really dunno. [11:18]
williamdunne Ah, fair nuff [11:19]
mircea_popescu you there on business or what ? [11:19]
williamdunne mYeah [11:19]
mircea_popescu then do what i always did, have locals pick [11:19]
mircea_popescu it's not that decent and even excellent places don't exist - they certainly do. but romanians are unreliable and southerners are unreliable ^ 2, and so they keep changing. [11:20]
williamdunne Kinda looking forward to it, only gonna be there for a few days though. [11:21]
mircea_popescu the old town is not so bad. [11:23]
mircea_popescu unfortunately, inhabited. [11:23]
williamdunne Just did a google, yeah looks like there's some kinda cool architecture there [11:25]
fluffypony [16:19:03] <+mircea_popescu> unfortunately, inhabited. <- it's like what I say about America: beautiful country, the biggest problem with it are the Americans [11:26]
williamdunne A country of that size can't exactly *not* have beautiful parts [11:27]
mircea_popescu plebs infesting the world are the biggest problem everywhere pretty much, except china [11:27]
mircea_popescu and even in china / se asia it's becoming an issue [11:27]
williamdunne "Damn Scotts, they ruin Scottland" [11:27]
mircea_popescu williamdunne sure, go to brasov :) [11:27]
mircea_popescu fluffypony how about south africa ? [11:27]
fluffypony so much space that you don't have to run into anyone :-P [11:28]
mircea_popescu lol right. [11:28]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: I'll see if I can. If I can convince someone to bugger off with me for the day I will, but only there for a few days :/ [11:28]
* williamdunne sees horde of 70,000 tourists preparing to descend upon fluffypony [11:29]
fluffypony lol [11:30]
mircea_popescu williamdunne only about 100 miles or so, shouldb't be more than a coupla hours. [11:30]
mircea_popescu and you get to cross the mointains [11:30]
williamdunne Guessing there's a train or summin? [11:30]
mircea_popescu sure. [11:31]
williamdunne If I do get there, anything in particular I should be doing? [11:33]
mircea_popescu in brasov ? [11:36]
mircea_popescu well check out piata sfatului, maybe go on the skylift thing [11:36]
mircea_popescu sinaia (the old royal winter residence) is also nearby [11:37]
williamdunne Sounds good to me, see if I can get that done the day before Prague [11:38]
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williamdunne More ponzi fail: [11:55]
williamdunne http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37ye6d/major_scammer_alert_cloudtd/ [11:55]
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williamdunne Guessing bitbet.us is against the blocksize increase [12:40]
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asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148942 << not an accurate picture of what it is. what we have is a list of keys that share one or more public modulus. nothing to do with signatures [12:50]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 12:18:33; mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone had before a way to "check all the keys i've signed" on one page. [12:50]
mircea_popescu uh [12:51]
mircea_popescu so how come jurov and old mpex keys are in there ? [12:51]
mircea_popescu i assumed it was because he had signed them ? [12:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: old mpex is an easy one - not all of the moduli changed [12:52]
asciilifeform (recall, there is no 'changing' on sks, only repeat upload) [12:52]
asciilifeform as for jurov's - i have no idea [12:52]
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mircea_popescu this is fairly odd [12:54]
mircea_popescu !up btcdrak [12:54]
-assbot- You voiced btcdrak for 30 minutes. [12:54]
* assbot gives voice to btcdrak [12:54]
asciilifeform i thought of adding a download link on individual key pages, but then folks will be tempted to use phuctor as a key server [12:55]
asciilifeform which is a microscope-hammer [12:55]
mircea_popescu myeah [12:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0003275 = 1.965 BTC [+] [12:59]
* asciilifeform presently contemplating the fact that sks appears to contain virtually no gurlz [13:00]
mircea_popescu seks! [13:01]
asciilifeform numerically, use of pgp is 'manlier' than drilling for oil... [13:01]
thestringpuller wake up this morning and all I see in my BTC feed is derps talkinga bout hard-fork?!? [13:04]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: what if instead you found them speaking of sex with pigs? would it then also be a matter of interest ? [13:05]
asciilifeform http://rt.com/news/220375-mexican-gangs-initiation-cannibalism << l0l!!! aztlan! [13:08]
thestringpuller Then I would think I was legit in the twilight zone if i saw headlines like "Prime Minister of UK to have intercourse with female pig." [13:09]
thestringpuller which was an episode of Black Mirror: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Anthem_%28Black_Mirror%29 [13:09]
asciilifeform male pig is sop in britain ? [13:10]
asciilifeform jurov: recall that nothing is ever removed from sks. [13:10]
asciilifeform http://rt.com/news/262825-isis-sniper-rifle-photos << musket ? [13:12]
asciilifeform jurov: i think what mircea_popescu was asking was - how a mircea_popescu modulus ended up in a jurov key [13:16]
thestringpuller http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37y8wm/list_of_bitcoin_services_that_supportoppose/ << civil war list. derps vs. the non-derps? [13:19]
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williamdunne thestringpuller: Funnily enough, half of the derps in the derp list are d.somethings [13:39]
joecool jurov: i think it's keys with multiple uid's? [13:41]
joecool well i don't see any in there so far without a second uid on the keyserver [13:42]
joecool oh nevermind i see what it is [13:44]
asciilifeform joecool: keys with multiple uid's? << no [13:45]
joecool asciilifeform: yeah i realized not now, i should have looked closer before answering [13:46]
asciilifeform jurov: lists me, mircea and bunch of unrelated people << unfortunately i have not the faintest clue who created this key and why. [13:46]
asciilifeform as far as i can see, it is harmless [13:46]
asciilifeform but why does it exist? i do not know. [13:46]
asciilifeform jurov: nothing was factored [13:48]
asciilifeform jurov: but i can take any set of moduli and shoehorn them into a valid key, sure [13:48]
asciilifeform the basic unit of pgptronics is the public modulus / exponent set, rather than 'key' - which is a fairly arbitrary collection thereof [13:49]
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asciilifeform jurov: now, how one checks that: "Please make sure these are yours" ? << i suppose this is when i explain -why- i wrote the 'dupes' feature to begin with. [13:51]
asciilifeform the idea of phuctor is to detect duplicate privatekey material in use anywhere. the reuse of one particular divisor is only one possible scenario - it is also possible that a very ham-handedly sabotaged pgptron somewhere reuses a whole pair of factors - that is, two or more strangers may, somewhere, share an entire private key. [13:53]
asciilifeform because said key was hardcoded in, or some schmuck had his seldom-used privkey substituted under his nose, or whatnot. [13:53]
asciilifeform hence 'make sure these are yours' [13:54]
asciilifeform if someone can suggest a better phrasing for this, please write in. [13:54]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu paused pump, resumed werker. we have around 1/4 of the total rsa keys available submitted (or processed) at this point. [13:58]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:58]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://twitter.com/wences/status/595768917907402752 << mega-l0l! wasn't this fella a chum of yours at one point? give him a thrashing ? [14:00]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:00]
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asciilifeform jurov: if someone has one factor, you would end up in http://nosuchlabs.com/phuctored [14:13]
asciilifeform jurov: if someone is using both, you will end up in http://nosuchlabs.com/dupes - even though most dupes are harmless [14:13]
asciilifeform beyond this, it helps to review how rsa works. [14:18]
asciilifeform jurov: phuctor deals -only- with rsa moduli. [14:22]
asciilifeform (key containing no rsa moduli will not be stored or processed) [14:22]
asciilifeform jurov: i suppose i will have to implement 'download key' button after all... [14:34]
asciilifeform jurov: if you give me a permalink, i will pull it out of the db for you [14:35]
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asciilifeform jurov: http://dpaste.com/1MV98N9.txt << here you go [14:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72443 @ 0.00032383 = 23.4592 BTC [-] {2} [14:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91200 @ 0.0003286 = 29.9683 BTC [+] {2} [14:54]
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ben_vulpes http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/05/how-a-grad-student-uncovered-a-huge-fraud.html << merit washing plus "social science" leads to lulz in short order [15:20]
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asciilifeform 'It’s the sort of brazen data fraud you just don’t see that often, especially in a journal like Science.' << this particular item from the gobbelsism toolbox needs a name [15:26]
asciilifeform *goebbels [15:26]
asciilifeform sorta like the very occasional corrupt dogcatcher they shoot in china [15:27]
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asciilifeform 'see, the crown cares! the rare irregularities are dealt with! watch this impalement and move along now' [15:28]
asciilifeform 'This was a graduate student who successfully ran the gauntlet of the Princeton interview process with a publicly posted CV that contained wild falsehoods about his grant receipts ... ' << this is sorta like counterfeiting usd. when the counterfeiter-in-chief cranks up the press and doubles the toiletpaper in circulation, that is blessed by the crown. when some schmuck ? headzoff [15:32]
asciilifeform '“My puzzlement now is, if he fabricated the data, surely he must have known that when people tried to replicate his study, they would fail to do so and the truth would come out,”' << l0l re: the obvious 'fnord' here [15:33]
asciilifeform as if any of these gasbags ever seriously replicate anything [15:33]
mod6 Update: full sync of v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patche(s) { Orphanage Thermonuke } + { TX Orphanage Amputation } is up to block: 280995 [15:34]
asciilifeform mod6: neato [15:34]
mod6 meanwhile, I'm nearly there with this gentoo install on this pos box. i did something funky i think, at the end of lastnight grub was screwed up. need to figure that out. [15:36]
asciilifeform 'the fraud could have been uncovered sooner, potentially forestalling a great deal of the disruption it inflicted on various careers and on social science as a whole.' << mega-l0l! as if any of the 'careers' built upon this or similar crocks of shit - other than the exemplary scapegoat's - will skip so much as one beat [15:38]
mod6 ah, up to 20 moduli broken now 'eh [15:43]
mod6 ah, and my key was re-tested [15:44]
mod6 ok, i see you fired up the werker, stopped the pump [15:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform eh, whatever, random derp trying to sell books or whatever by "being controversial" [15:51]
mircea_popescu not worth the time [15:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149054 << the particular example in question just looks like an older mpex key somehow related to the various people who signed it. [15:58]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 16:48:57; asciilifeform: the idea of phuctor is to detect duplicate privatekey material in use anywhere. the reuse of one particular divisor is only one possible scenario - it is also possible that a very ham-handedly sabotaged pgptron somewhere reuses a whole pair of factors - that is, two or more strangers may, somewhere, share an entire private key. [15:58]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149080 << special interest politics, from gay to womens to minorities to what have you is fraud, run on ambition, high hopes and bad numbers. i am so shocked i think ima become a vegetarian nao. [16:02]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 18:16:50; ben_vulpes: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/05/how-a-grad-student-uncovered-a-huge-fraud.html << merit washing plus "social science" leads to lulz in short order [16:02]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: again, signing a key - on ordinary gpg - does not throw your whole modulus in it [16:23]
asciilifeform not on any pgptron i've ever used [16:23]
asciilifeform but this might be configurable. [16:23]
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decimation asciilifeform: as an example, I have 131 'BASTARDS' between two accepts [16:31]
decimation from multiple nodes [16:31]
mircea_popescu yeah its weird [16:35]
decimation http://dpaste.com/327TNG4 < dpaste of the debug.log between two 'ACCEPT' blocks [16:36]
decimation I added the ip of the node that was passed when ProccesBlock was called [16:38]
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asciilifeform decimation: this is normal in my experience [16:49]
asciilifeform (incidentally, a while ago i posted a patch that kills log rollover. might be of interest to some of you) [16:49]
asciilifeform ^ makes it possible to preserve debug output from zero to synced in its entirety [16:49]
asciilifeform yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged. [16:51]
asciilifeform and has no abort on the sending end [16:51]
asciilifeform so when peer starts crapping out bastards, it won't stop until finished or disconnected [16:52]
asciilifeform read the source (TM) [16:52]
jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << there is already tracking of misbehaving nodes, can't that be plugged in? [16:53]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 02:04:22; asciilifeform: (one of my early, unreleased experiments had a disconnector that tripped when we learn that the node we're syncing from is spewing orphans above threshold. perhaps time to bring this back ?) [16:53]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah I'm trying to crawl my way through it. are these nodes actually hostile or do they just not have the full blockchain? [16:54]
decimation jurov: there is definitely tracking of when a node was 'last heard'. what misbehvior are you talking about? [16:59]
jurov decimation: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/search?v=0.10.0&_string=misbehaving&!v=0.5.3.1 [17:01]
jurov "misbehaving peers" [17:02]
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decimation jurov: yeah it does seem that there is some tracking of orphan spamming nodes [17:05]
decimation but I'm not sure if those checks actually are effective in the bastards case, gonna need to read more code [17:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86254 @ 0.00031667 = 27.3141 BTC [-] {2} [17:15]
decimation lol http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_cw1nNUYOXSAKwrq < apparently now there's a 'facebook' for economists to 'like' ideas or not [17:44]
decimation Question A: [17:44]
decimation If the US replaced its discretionary monetary policy regime with a gold standard, defining a "dollar" as a specific number of ounces of gold, the price-stability and employment outcomes would be better for the average American. [17:44]
decimation William Nordhaus of Yale: '10 strong disagree' This proposal makes no sense in the modern world. Just look at the Eurozone to see the consequences. [17:45]
decimation Anil Kashyap of U. Chicago '10 strong disagree' A gold standard regime would be a disaster for any large advanced economy. Love of the G.S. implies macroeconomic illiteracy. [17:45]
decimation if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go [17:46]
* assbot gives voice to williamdunne [17:52]
williamdunne Deflation is bad because why buy a sandwich today when you can buy two in 30 years [17:53]
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decimation heh [18:11]
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* Adlai plays devil's advocate; or rather, s/evil/avout/ [18:17]
Adlai if we're gonna have live trades, why not add paymium? [18:18]
jurov heh. +1 [18:22]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149116 << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans. [18:28]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 19:49:44; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << there is already tracking of misbehaving nodes, can't that be plugged in? [18:28]
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asciilifeform err, bastards [18:28]
asciilifeform i have come to the conclusion that the -only possible- non-retarded solution to bastard blocks -when we can only adjust our end- is to throw them into the sun. [18:30]
asciilifeform ditto for orphan tx [18:30]
asciilifeform let's rewrite it as a maxim: [18:31]
asciilifeform if it cannot be immediately validated, DON'T STORE IT! [18:31]
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asciilifeform not hard. [18:31]
asciilifeform srsly [18:31]
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asciilifeform i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place. [18:31]
oglafbot http://oglaf.com/threnody/ [18:31]
* oglafbot is now known as BingoBoingo [18:31]
jurov premature optimization, i guess [18:32]
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Adlai premature hyberbitcoinization is the root of all bubbles [18:33]
asciilifeform it was 'optimization' strictly in the sense that shitting into your pants is optimization over looking for toilet [18:36]
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Adlai it's ok, you start looking for a toilet after 750 nuggets [18:36]
Adlai it's a compromise [18:37]
asciilifeform !b 3 [18:37]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3WRZ0E9.txt ) [18:37]
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danielpbarron !up on247 [18:40]
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williamdunne jurov: Have you seen online.net? Its kinda like the server hosting thing you were looking at [19:15]
williamdunne http://www.online.net/en/dedicated-server/dedibox-scg2 [19:15]
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jurov williamdunne: yes i knew about it. but, what do you think "victim of its own success" mean? :DDD [19:32]
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midnightmagic A 100% freshly-installed, default-settings online.net server in France was owned virtually immediately. Online.net support didn't answer the reinstall ticket for a month. If online.net has been successful, then success probably caused them to start sucking. [19:35]
midnightmagic There also doesn't seem to be any ways to use keys without passwords, or set up new servers without email. [19:36]
williamdunne jurov: Out of stock, too many people bought that cheap 6 euro dedicated server [19:39]
williamdunne midnightmagic: To use keys? [19:39]
jurov I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo [19:40]
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williamdunne Yeah its definitely not a perfect in every way, but looks pretty good [19:40]
williamdunne jurov: Wow, I can get you better than that. Thats pretty pathetic [19:40]
midnightmagic williamdunne: We are forced to use a TLS channel to order product from them. We should be able to spin up a fresh server using that interface solely, and ssh keys entered via it. [19:40]
williamdunne What sort of density can you achieve? [19:41]
williamdunne i.e using the cheap blades how many servers can you fit per maybe 48us? [19:41]
williamdunne midnightmagic: SSH would be preferable, but how important is it really? [19:45]
midnightmagic Important enough when the alternative is an emailed rootpass. :( [19:46]
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williamdunne Can't you just change it as soon as you connect [19:50]
jurov williamdunne: pwned immediately, see above [19:52]
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midnightmagic williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination. [19:57]
danielpbarron !up shesek [19:58]
* assbot gives voice to shesek [19:58]
danielpbarron https://twitter.com/shesek/status/605005384026177537 [19:59]
danielpbarron >> At this time, I oppose increasing the block size limit as per Gavin's proposal. [19:59]
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ben_vulpes hola shesek [20:06]
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danielpbarron !up Lk4_DPB [20:07]
* assbot gives voice to Lk4_DPB [20:07]
Lk4_DPB danielpbarron: obliged [20:09]
danielpbarron sure; who are you? [20:09]
ben_vulpes !up Lk4_DPB [20:11]
* assbot gives voice to Lk4_DPB [20:11]
Adlai !s dpb from:ascii* [20:11]
assbot 0 results for 'dpb from:ascii*' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dpb+from%3Aascii%2A [20:11]
ben_vulpes what brings you by, Lk4_DPB ? [20:11]
Adlai http://l1sp.org/cl/dpb [20:11]
BingoBoingo Oh lololololol https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1075590 [20:12]
Lk4_DPB i was at some event in milano and they talked about assets as a the place that knoews best about bitcoin adn that discovered a probem with rsa keys [20:13]
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Adlai the keys are fine, the servers are fucked [20:13]
Lk4_DPB the servers accept any key is the problem? [20:13]
ben_vulpes Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-05-2015#1124561 [20:14]
assbot Logged on 08-05-2015 01:17:36; ben_vulpes: look danielpbarron there's a function in common lisp named for you! [20:14]
Adlai ben_vulpes: "aha" [20:14]
Adlai s/"/'/g [20:14]
Adlai Lk4_DPB: doubtful, it's more likely the dud keys were placed there intentionally [20:14]
Lk4_DPB by dud or someone else? [20:15]
Adlai "by dud"? [20:15]
Lk4_DPB by the owner or someone else? [20:16]
Adlai why would key owners distribute bad versions of their own keys? [20:17]
Adlai although i guess it could be an experiment, and the experimenters wanted to only diddle their own keys, to minimize collateral damage [20:17]
Lk4_DPB i would not know, perhaps it was not a smart question [20:18]
Adlai there are no stupid questions, only stupid people [20:28]
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mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [20:35]
gribble Current Blocks: 358878 | Current Difficulty: 4.758959115362501E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 360863 | Next Difficulty In: 1985 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 56719622139.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 19.18493 [20:35]
mircea_popescu somebody should write a better estimator sometime. [20:35]
midnightmagic nanotube accepts patches pretty solicitously :) [20:36]
mircea_popescu yeah. [20:36]
mircea_popescu it's a complicated problem tho. [20:36]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149112 << i was talking about the mixed moduli situation yo. [20:37]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 19:47:00; asciilifeform: yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged. [20:37]
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mircea_popescu as to the bastard situation, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148935 [20:37]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 12:11:09; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes. [20:37]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149130 << notwithstanding that the dudes in question are probably illiterate, gold standard does in fact not work for a large array or reasons. this exercise is not unlike an attempt to deride qm on the grounds that the various twerps making money out of govt grants in physics academia could not explain it. [20:39]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 20:42:43; decimation: if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go [20:39]
* assbot removes voice from Lk4_DPB [20:41]
mircea_popescu and gold standard != deflation for the record. not anymore than diarrhea = transpiration [20:41]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149136 << the latter point is correct, for now. but, much like us being here makes live marginally harder for now, yet the presence of punishment for idiots provides them an incentive to either get killed or get fixed, just so putting that in there pre-pogo provides an avenue for the network to purge itself of idiocy. [20:42]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 21:23:54; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149116 << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans. [20:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which idiocy ? [20:46]
BingoBoingo orphan shitters [20:46]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: our 0.5.3.xyz isn't any more clever on the transmitter end! [20:46]
mircea_popescu in the case of the blockchain, the existence of nodes that pump out bad info. [20:46]
mircea_popescu in the case of the world, the existence of people that pump out stupidity. [20:46]
asciilifeform it is 'bad' from standpoint of node which doesn't have the antecedents, yes [20:46]
mircea_popescu biology works in this manner alf. [20:46]
asciilifeform but this reflects the lack of a reasonable 'gossip' mechanism - on both ends [20:47]
mircea_popescu "it's bad from my pov so fuck you." [20:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 149979 @ 0.00031638 = 47.4504 BTC [-] {3} [20:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha but here there isn't a 'me' and 'you' yet [20:47]
mircea_popescu not yet, no. [20:47]
asciilifeform there would just be folks shooting selves in the feet [20:47]
mircea_popescu yes. [20:47]
mircea_popescu how else do you think me and you is born ? [20:47]
asciilifeform once we have a reasonable 'embrace and extend' of sync mechanism - then yes [20:47]
mircea_popescu well yes. [20:47]
mircea_popescu i'm not proposing "This by itself and right now" [20:48]
mircea_popescu im not gavinue aendreaessaen [20:48]
mircea_popescu or w/e you spell it. [20:48]
ben_vulpes genuinely asinine [20:48]
mircea_popescu that's a point. [20:48]
Adlai !s gribble source [20:49]
assbot 898 results for 'gribble source' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gribble+source [20:49]
Adlai !s patch gribble OR nanotube [20:50]
assbot 18385 results for 'patch gribble OR nanotube' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=patch+gribble+OR+nanotube [20:50]
Adlai fuck [20:50]
mircea_popescu what are you trying to do ? [20:50]
asciilifeform anyway, for all who want, replace 'return true;' in 'if' block where begins with printf("ProcessBlock: BASTARD... with 'if (pfrom) pfrom->Misbehaving(whateverconstant)' [20:51]
Adlai mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149204 [20:51]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 23:32:24; midnightmagic: nanotube accepts patches pretty solicitously :) [20:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149145 << you have to appreciate the situation at the time. not that many nodes alive or expected, and a certain desperation to "make it work". [20:51]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 21:27:33; asciilifeform: i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place. [20:51]
mircea_popescu and someone coding in windows and without much of a clue about programming as a theoretical discipline. [20:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: granted, but 'don't let strangers throw ten pounds of shit each into your five-pound bag' is not higher mathematics ...? [20:52]
mircea_popescu Adlai are you looking for his github ? same name. [20:53]
Adlai nonsense, satoshi had every clue about proper code, but he didn't want to make it too easy [20:53]
Adlai gotta leave something to work for [20:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform at the time the 4096 ounce bag should have been enough for everyone. [20:53]
mircea_popescu http://oglaf.com/business/ << shit. my lyf ;/ [20:55]
asciilifeform l0l [20:56]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149172 << that is always and without exception the sign of a vps being sold as fake "dedicated" [20:57]
assbot Logged on 31-05-2015 22:53:20; midnightmagic: williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination. [20:57]
Adlai aha, the culprit is https://blockexplorer.com/q/estimate [20:58]
asciilifeform y'know, it isn't hard to test for all known types of virtualizer from inside [20:58]
asciilifeform turdware artists do it sop. [20:58]
mircea_popescu Adlai yes. [20:59]
mircea_popescu you could have asked THAT , it's not uknown. [20:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85500 @ 0.00032489 = 27.7781 BTC [+] {2} [20:59]
* Adlai found that in the gribble source, didn't realize it was just parotting a value from elsewhere [21:00]
mircea_popescu bbl [21:01]
Adlai https://github.com/lirazsiri/blockexplorer -> PHP 95.4% -> nope [21:02]
ben_vulpes rewriting the block explorer now, Adlai ? [21:02]
Adlai nope. nope nope nope [21:02]
* Adlai has already (defun-json-rpc bitcoind.rpc ..) [21:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59750 @ 0.00032857 = 19.6321 BTC [+] {2} [21:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.0003293 = 12.003 BTC [+] [21:22]
ben_vulpes Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for? [21:23]
ben_vulpes trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world [21:24]
Adlai who needs documentation when you have live support [21:26]
BingoBoingo Oh found internet fiction http://pastebin.com/CPum0U4R [21:30]
* Adlai got had at moo [21:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00031613 = 2.4026 BTC [-] [21:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00031125 = 6.3495 BTC [-] [22:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22126 @ 0.00031125 = 6.8867 BTC [-] [22:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00030903 = 1.1434 BTC [-] [22:37]
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decimation re: gold standard doesn't work < yeah this might be the case, but nearly all of the criticisms offered would apply equally to bitcoin [22:44]
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decimation asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be to make an irc/gossip/udp net that requires proof of wot membership to join [22:46]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21425 @ 0.00031002 = 6.6422 BTC [+] [23:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00030874 = 11.0838 BTC [-] {2} [23:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00031006 = 6.7283 BTC [+] [23:19]
asciilifeform Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for? << extremely bad question. is a boeing worth paying for? depends! [23:30]
Adlai i've heard they're great for hammering in nails [23:31]
asciilifeform Adlai: nah, that's microscopes [23:31]
Adlai you aren't dreaming big enough [23:31]
* asciilifeform dreams big: of hammering with -electron- microscopes ! [23:32]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000096.html << The State of Bitcoin Address [23:32]
asciilifeform decimation: asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be ... this is still reasoning from the misconception that 'bastards' necessarily come from malicious or malfunctioning nodes. this is not the case - a 0.5.3.x will emit bastards - from point of view of certain nodes - just as often as any other [23:33]
Adlai both are too heavy to wield manually but electron microscopes, unlike the boeing, lack self-propulsion [23:33]
asciilifeform it is a consequence of how screamingly retarded the sync mechanism is to begin with [23:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21217 @ 0.00031018 = 6.5811 BTC [+] {2} [23:34]
decimation asciilifeform: forgive my ignorance, but there's a single valid path through the blockchain [23:34]
decimation why does every node need to reverify it? [23:35]
asciilifeform trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world << i never had lispworks and can't comment about it, but franz 'allegro' does come with clim. iirc it only works in the non-smp version though, and depends on gtk [23:36]
asciilifeform lispworks is actually (afaik to this day) the maintainer of the online cl hyperspec! while documentation from franz was once superb - came in printed volumes, which i bought second-hand [23:37]
asciilifeform but afaik they no longer ship the dead tree [23:37]
asciilifeform decimation: if you didn't verify the entire blockchain from end to end, you aren't a node! [23:37]
asciilifeform but a gavinabortion [23:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00030846 = 5.4289 BTC [-] [23:37]
decimation yeah, but there's a difference between "here's our history; you verify" and "pls to give transactions" [23:38]
asciilifeform mod6: neato [23:38]
asciilifeform decimation: in both cases, 'martian' - that is to say, unverifiable with info at hand - blocks (or transactions) are indistinguishable from garbage at time of receipt [23:39]
mod6 thx ascii, :] [23:40]
asciilifeform mod6: i would comment that technically the block-bastardage and tx-orphanage nukes are semantically independent. but the latter was derived from a main.cpp patched with the former. [23:41]
asciilifeform so the statement in the report - holds. [23:41]
asciilifeform mod6: the igprof thing was its own patch [23:42]
asciilifeform (it works without the patch but you can't take runtime heap snapshots then) [23:42]
asciilifeform oh perhaps i should mention that i tested the db memory thing [23:43]
asciilifeform our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max [23:43]
asciilifeform there is a cache cap option. setting it did precisely nothing. [23:43]
mod6 I should have put in a line maybe about "encouraged to read the submitted emails" or something, but perhaps I just thought it was implied. [23:43]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max << OH. ok did not realize that. damn. well, i'll mention this fact in next months letter. should hvae asked. [23:44]
asciilifeform not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb... [23:44]
decimation asciilifeform: I'm using the auto.sh build [23:45]
mod6 well, if one starts with the v0.5.3.1-RELEASE built with auto.sh, then BDB 4.8.30 will be built with it. [23:45]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb... << but anyway, yeah, I'll check anyway. there is a chance that we could be looking at two seperate versions. [23:46]
asciilifeform see db-4.8.30/dbinc/db_cxx.in [23:46]
asciilifeform for what is and isn't on the gameboard. [23:47]
decimation no set_memory_max on my version [23:48]
mod6 yeah, its not in there. [23:49]
asciilifeform anyway none of my tests lay blame on bdb for continuous memory-eating [23:49]
asciilifeform just has the appearance of something one could perhaps shave a MB or two off, total. [23:49]
decimation asciilifeform: I see lots of std::vector and associated bs in your igprof stuff [23:49]
asciilifeform on the other hand, it -is- a candidate for the possible hidey-hole of the 'phantom' ram [23:49]
asciilifeform decimation: likely, boost internal crapolade [23:50]
decimation do you think it's possible that C++ is 'helpfully' holding on to allocated memory? [23:50]
asciilifeform decimation: when formally freed ? that'd be a gcc bug [23:50]
asciilifeform and/or glibc [23:50]
asciilifeform not impossible, but 'first rule out the usual suspects, then - miracles' [23:51]
decimation I guess I'm saying: did satoshi fail to clean up clutter as he went along? [23:51]
asciilifeform decimation: thing is, we no longer have classical leakage [23:51]
asciilifeform as in, memory --> +inf as t --> +inf [23:52]
decimation right. and one thing that infuriates me about std::vector - for instance - is that it's not exactly clear when free() is gonna be called [23:52]
asciilifeform this is one of the reasons why i - in all seriousness - believe c++ to be one of the 20th century's greatest crimes against the future. [23:53]
decimation stroustrup gonna be dug up and hung in effigy? [23:54]
Adlai !s fqa [23:54]
assbot 0 results for 'fqa' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fqa [23:54]
asciilifeform why effigy? [23:55]
asciilifeform bastard's alive ! [23:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22550 @ 0.00030846 = 6.9558 BTC [-] [23:55]
decimation yeah but folks don't realize the crime yet, apparently [23:55]
asciilifeform at any rate, it'd be harmless crackpottery without microshit [23:55]
asciilifeform the real enabler [23:55]
asciilifeform (notice, incidentally, that cpp is virtually unused outside the microturd world ?) [23:56]
decimation heh yeah when reading that bastards section I ran into "CCriticalSection" stuff - which apparently all came from mfc shit [23:57]
decimation satoshi reimplemented [23:57]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:57]
asciilifeform imho one of the most perplexing things about 'anti-bitcoin' agitators is how they all - to a man - miss the most cogent argument against bitcoin: it being, how it is implemented [23:58]
asciilifeform out of duct tape and chewing gum, and, to add insult to injury, cannot really be rebuilt [23:58]
decimation well, because what do they have? excel? [23:58]
asciilifeform (see old mircea_popescu thread re: proof) [23:58]
asciilifeform there -exists- software not crafted out of duct tape and gum [23:59]
asciilifeform most folks have had some (albeit unconscious) encounters with it - riding airplanes, etc [23:59]
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