Forum logs for 31 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95586 @ 0.00055797 = 53.3341 BTC [-] {2} [00:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106900 @ 0.00055754 = 59.601 BTC [-] {4} [00:19]
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pete_dushenski who wants to see a funny bitbet oopsie ? [00:30]
pete_dushenski https://bitbet.us/bet/1228/bitcoin-network-hits-1-exahash/#b1 https://bitbet.us/bet/1228/bitcoin-network-hits-1-exahash/#b3 << same out address for 0conf and house bet ! [00:30]
assbot BitBet - Bitcoin Network Hits 1 Exahash :: 105.65 B (96%) on Yes, 3.93 B (4%) on No | closed 4 days 9 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzTYzD ) [00:30]
assbot BitBet - Bitcoin Network Hits 1 Exahash :: 105.65 B (96%) on Yes, 3.93 B (4%) on No | closed 4 days 9 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzU1f4 ) [00:30]
pete_dushenski so unless bitbet is now drafting and seeding their own proposals... [00:31]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389535 << that's... just horrendous. [00:31]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 00:52:27; assbot: سيارة Elibreia القطرية تجذب جميع الأنظار نحوها | ArabGT ... ( http://bit.ly/23z6Ltt ) [00:31]
pete_dushenski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhjwWhlk5Q << left by a contravex commenter. i lollered. (for those who watch videos only) [00:34]
assbot Russell Peters White people are not racist - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzU8XV ) [00:34]
pete_dushenski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Yww_nYuFA << and in other videos, why NOT put a wwi airship engine WITH 3`000 LB-FT OF TORQUE in a 1905 fiat isotta fraschini ? seems reasonable. [00:36]
assbot Insane ​*127MPH*​ WWI engined Fiat Isotta - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzUhuv ) [00:36]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Smaller house bet has alway gone to the person proposing the bet on BitBet [00:38]
pete_dushenski in computing terms, ^ would be like putting 256gb ecc ram, 16-core amd fx and gaming vid card in an ipad. [00:38]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: o.O [00:38]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: It's not new. It's something that has always been brough up as part of BitBet's marketing for people to submit interesting proposals [00:39]
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pete_dushenski so if 0.01 - 0.04 btc house bet wins, it goes to proposer ? [00:40]
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BingoBoingo yeah [00:41]
BingoBoingo Always has [00:41]
pete_dushenski damn. and here i was thinking i was fucking zheng he. [00:42]
pete_dushenski "Because of this EPA wall, the market is currently dominated by low-level ethanol blends, such as “E10” (10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline). That has prevented mid-level ethanol fuels, such as E25 or E30, from widely reaching American consumers. If allowed full market access, mid-level ethanol products like E25 or E30 could prove quite popular with American consumers, who are increasingly concerned [00:44]
pete_dushenski with fuel economy." [00:44]
pete_dushenski ^from teddy cruz, who just lost alf's vote by the looks of it [00:44]
pete_dushenski how and by what fluke of fisics cruz thinks that eXX burns ~more~ efficiently than 100% gas is anyone's guess [00:46]
pete_dushenski additionally, with a gallon of gas a ~$1 stateside, NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FUEL ECONOMY [00:47]
pete_dushenski do corn producers what to put their products everywhere and anywhere, from building materials to groceries ? ofc. but that has nothing to do with consumers. [00:48]
pete_dushenski obligatory : http://www.contravex.com/2015/10/09/is-this-corn-free/ [00:48]
assbot “Is this corn-free?” | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1QzURbJ ) [00:48]
pete_dushenski why teddy can't just frame his position as "e30 is even LESS efficient which is good for both corn and oil producers" is anyone's guess. trump owns honesty, apparently. [00:50]
mircea_popescu assbot> California Environmentalists Fight To Save Endangered Nuclear Plant <<< had to dbl take. then lulz floweth [00:51]
mircea_popescu "The DC neglected to turn the thing back on after SSD installation" <<< o.O [00:51]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Note the categories it was filed under [00:52]
pete_dushenski "The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30" << from some study by the american coalition for ethanol. [00:52]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski> so unless bitbet is now drafting and seeding their own proposals... << this isn't even new. [00:52]
pete_dushenski but i... apparently am [00:53]
pete_dushenski bbias [00:54]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: It's just residual pregnancy fog affecting your brain. It'll clear in 17 years [00:54]
mircea_popescu anyway. in no sense is ethanol LESS fuel intensive than gasoline. the alternatives are oil->refinery->gasoline for gasoline, or oil->refinery->chem feed->chem plant->fertilizer->farm->corn->ethanol plant->ethanol. [00:54]
mircea_popescu you get about 1 to 5% less mileage per barrel in the 2nd approach, as should be obvious. you neverthelss get 5x the "jobs" and 20 to 50x the imaginary industrial assets. [00:55]
mircea_popescu so, as they quite aptly say, it's a no brainer. [00:55]
mod6 hehehe [00:56]
mod6 unreal isn't it [00:56]
mod6 gas here $1.55 today [00:57]
mod6 in other news, i can't seem to get -setvernum to work either? or how can I tell that it worked? [01:00]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/124WDD3.txt [01:00]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1nVwTOE ) [01:00]
phf huh, so everything matches except for headers.h [01:08]
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phf mod6: hey you mind dpasting your headers.h? [01:13]
mod6 it's not just headers.h, theres a number of others. [01:17]
phf there is? :o i did shasum -a 512 -c foo.txt|grep -v OK where foo.txt is your dpaste and only headers is not giving me ok. [01:18]
mod6 oooh. hmm. maybe im looking at this wrong. [01:19]
mod6 one sec. [01:19]
mod6 ok yah, its just headers.h [01:20]
phf ha [01:21]
mod6 here's my headers.h : http://dpaste.com/3W0FZVC.txt [01:21]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyutjC ) [01:21]
mod6 # grep "b86114b5b74d2b9e737798f78804439c5cdd0ae42440615c57fc85cb0ac7d8b8a454d2ef44048db6af0ca00a938178173eece431b273462dbc299c1501b86600" ../../../../patches/* [01:23]
mod6 ../../../../patches/bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch:+++ b/bitcoin/src/headers.h b86114b5b74d2b9e737798f78804439c5cdd0ae42440615c57fc85cb0ac7d8b8a454d2ef44048db6af0ca00a938178173eece431b273462dbc299c1501b86600 [01:23]
mod6 i think that is correct [01:23]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: lol prolly that [01:24]
BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2016/01/networking-equipment-designated-weapon/ [01:24]
assbot Networking Equipment Designated Weapon System | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyuG6g ) [01:24]
phf i somehow have an extra newline there :o [01:25]
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mod6 so if ascii's V 'origin' command would take a hash as a parameter then show you the vpatch where it was touched, that would be helpful. [01:25]
mod6 i should look into this [01:25]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style [01:25]
mod6 or even give a source file name, then output all the vpatches that touch it & their before & after hashes, or something. [01:26]
mod6 !up asciilifeform [01:26]
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* asciilifeform finally puts away vacuum. [01:27]
phf mod6: sorry, this is entirely a non issue, i'm debugging a pure lisp presser, i.e. parsing vpatch files and then doing in memory press. everything presses, but that one file has an extra newline [01:27]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: saw that nyooz elsewhere yesterday, also found it odd to classify 'firewall' as 'weapon' but hey, not like words mean things in usistan [01:27]
asciilifeform phf: reimplemented pgp verify ? [01:27]
mod6 phf: ahh, very cool though. as im sitting here reading sicp im thinking that maybe how i can learn scheme is by writing V in it -- at some point. [01:27]
mod6 need to read more first heheh. [01:28]
phf asciilifeform: you know just the right kind of questions to ask :) [01:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100750 @ 0.00056042 = 56.4623 BTC [+] {4} [01:30]
phf i'm curious if there's enough machinery in ironclad to give me support to do a pgp verify rewrite [01:31]
asciilifeform there is not. [01:31]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Yeah, lots of interesting oddities came out to end the month. [01:31]
asciilifeform phf: no rsa in there. will have to write it. [01:31]
pete_dushenski http://qntra.net/2016/01/networking-equipment-designated-weapon/#comment-44205 [01:31]
assbot Networking Equipment Designated Weapon System | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1JQRU79 ) [01:32]
phf i have that patched gpgme version though, can always punt into the ugly land. i'm going to tackle diff first though, seems like a significant hole in my algo knowledge [01:32]
pete_dushenski mod6: in other news, i can't seem to get -setvernum to work either? or how can I tell that it worked? << hm. has anyone actually used 'version-strings' in praxis ? seems like several failed attempts now. [01:33]
mod6 yeah, i'm curious here. [01:34]
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mircea_popescu assbot> Networking Equipment Designated Weapon System | << speaking of which, i fully expect the first usg-designed bitcoin miners to be designated exactly that. [01:36]
BingoBoingo You mean the Buttfurry double stack shipping container thing? [01:37]
phf "patch" is surprisingly trivial once you get past unified diff format parsing, http://paste.lisp.org/display/306234 [01:37]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyvuIv ) [01:37]
mircea_popescu mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style << actually, best estimate i can get puts TMSR GDP growth for 2015 somewhere around 450-500%. that's not 4.5-5%. it's not 45-50% either. [01:37]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Or the 21.co PiTaTo [01:38]
mircea_popescu and by the looks of january, Q1 2016 might actually beat that. [01:38]
mircea_popescu so... glhf, but never in the history of sovereigns has there been such a wonder etc. [01:38]
asciilifeform waiwut [01:38]
mircea_popescu to which part ? [01:39]
asciilifeform tmsr gdp... [01:39]
mircea_popescu apply common accounting standards to the work done, see what it adds up to. [01:39]
mircea_popescu if you produce a mythical man-month's code for trb, that adds the accounting value of a man-month to the tmsr gdp whether you mean for it to or not. [01:40]
asciilifeform denominated in what, martian bzortls ? [01:41]
mircea_popescu any currency of your choice. [01:41]
danielpbarron Eulora alone.. [01:41]
mircea_popescu commonly usd, seeing how gdp is a usd thing. [01:41]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron yeah but he wouldn't be familiar with that. [01:42]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski mod6 i never used server thing myself. [01:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: humour me, show how to denote that man-month in usd. [01:42]
mircea_popescu admitting you're worth what sv pays for top talent, comes to about 60k or so. [01:43]
mircea_popescu iirc the per-capital costs are in the 700-750k bracket pa. [01:44]
mircea_popescu per-capita* i mean [01:44]
mircea_popescu AND, to add to the list of wonders, all that growth is financed purely through unbacked deficit spending! [01:45]
mircea_popescu tmsr really is what usg aspires to be, funnily enough. [01:45]
asciilifeform what's an isis mujahed worth, per capita, in usd ? [01:46]
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asciilifeform (how much must one pay on open market to get somebody to allah-snackbar) [01:46]
mircea_popescu i think that's undefined, in the general. in the narrow particular, iirc blackwater charges something like 1.2-1.5. depends on various factors, but thereabouts. [01:47]
mircea_popescu if they gotta drone it tho, it gets a lot worse. [01:47]
asciilifeform mod6: i officially pronounce the verstring patch to be buggy and unfit for inclusion in its present state [01:48]
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asciilifeform will be happy to produce an antimatter patch for it if this is needed. [01:48]
mircea_popescu meh, how about fixing things rather than putting in and taking out. [01:49]
asciilifeform would love to, but so far i do not understand why the setting mechanism does not work. [01:49]
mircea_popescu i dunno exactly why it was decided to have it in, but now it's in, so... [01:49]
pete_dushenski ver 99999 is fine by me [01:50]
pete_dushenski does what it needs to do [01:50]
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BingoBoingo Spreading works! (TM)/(R) [01:50]
asciilifeform likewise it appears that the shiva patch has an issue, you end up having to LC_ALL="C" ./bitcoind -shivainit=./shiva/init.scm -shiva getinfo [01:50]
asciilifeform to get rpc [01:50]
asciilifeform this is a 1 line fix tho [01:51]
asciilifeform here are 2 opportunities for eagle eyes! [01:51]
mod6 <+pete_dushenski> ver 99999 is fine by me << yeah, this is fine. but the fact that it doesn't do what it should do isn't. i'll pull the patch tomorrow. [01:51]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: isn't tmsr also what most every organisation everywhere since ever aspired to be ? [01:51]
mod6 and i'll also have to "re-grind" my high/low S patch [01:52]
mircea_popescu well yeah. [01:52]
mod6 (since its antecedent is PVS) [01:52]
mircea_popescu mod6 incidentally found the correct way to undo things. [01:52]
mircea_popescu everyone has to rebase and so will hate you if you make them do it. [01:52]
mircea_popescu this is a good thing. [01:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109800 @ 0.00055693 = 61.1509 BTC [-] {3} [01:53]
asciilifeform i'd much prefer antimatter [01:53]
mircea_popescu also crucially evident why patches must be thematic. [01:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and polarbeard would much prefer large patches. you don't get what you prefer. [01:53]
asciilifeform we did it for the db locks fix [01:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00056044 = 8.2385 BTC [+] [01:54]
asciilifeform but whatever [01:54]
mircea_popescu we weren't smart back then. [01:54]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> i'd much prefer antimatter << this imho sets kindof an nasty precedent: just adding anitmatter patches, bloat for the tree. a hundred years from now there might be more anti-matter than matter patches! [01:54]
mircea_popescu im pretty sure he gets it. [01:54]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> we did it for the db locks fix << this is fair. would have to had to regrind everything after last march :/ [01:55]
mod6 and... its maybe slightly different since the first patch was inclued in the first release. [01:56]
mod6 we cant exactly rewrite history there. [01:56]
mircea_popescu "let one stick suffice per cartload of china" [01:57]
mod6 since this one is new, and its not in a release, its not horrible. i'd prefer just to fix whatever might be wrong in there and resubmit & regrind high/low [01:57]
mircea_popescu or however you say that in english. [01:57]
mod6 asciilifeform: totally up to you in that respect. [01:57]
asciilifeform mod6: do what you must. [01:58]
mod6 maybe i'll try to debug it a bit, see if i can get it to work. [01:58]
asciilifeform i'ma try & figure out why the version set thing doesn't go [01:58]
mircea_popescu :) [01:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42670 @ 0.0005654 = 24.1256 BTC [+] {2} [02:00]
* assbot removes voice from p15x [02:06]
mircea_popescu copypaste http://trilema.com/2016/alright-i-give-up/ [02:10]
assbot Alright, I give up. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pq7t68 ) [02:10]
asciilifeform Achtung, Panzers! [02:10]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: [02:10]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000202.html [02:10]
assbot [BTC-dev] Shiva bug fix. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pq7ven ) [02:11]
mircea_popescu wait shouldn't shiva 2 be restated instead ? [02:11]
BingoBoingo https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/kcma-d8.html << Newly liberated board [02:12]
assbot ASUS KCMA-D8 server/workstation board ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pq7yqk ) [02:12]
mircea_popescu that's a pretty sweet board. [02:13]
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BingoBoingo Dual opteron, apparently only text mode works but who needs graphics when you have two opterons? [02:14]
mircea_popescu incidentally, this would be a pretty interesting sideline/possible job for someone dedicated. sell pre-made, fully liberated board+chip kits. for to go intos ervers etc. [02:14]
mircea_popescu i'd definitely add him to the top of the list of providers for colocation. [02:14]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo server graphics ? [02:15]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Dual opteron could be useful in workstation. [02:15]
BingoBoingo For build box, etc [02:15]
mircea_popescu i have no idea why anyone'd keep locally a box they don't actually use to play games on, but hey. [02:16]
mircea_popescu if it computes it belongs in a dc. [02:16]
BingoBoingo To yell at of course! [02:16]
BingoBoingo Also in the things to yell at department http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/163163264/puppy-bowl-animal-planet-super-bowl [02:18]
assbot It's Puppy Bowl season once again. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pq7Sp4 ) [02:18]
BingoBoingo "The fun doesn't stop at just watching the Puppy Bowl, though. Like in all sports now, fantasy Puppy Bowl is huge, and you can go to Animal Planet's website to draft your fantasy Puppy Bowl squad. You pick three dogs to go up against your friends. There's a scorecard and everything. I went on and drafted my team, and I think I have a strong chance to come out on top in Puppy Bowl fantasy. I mean, just look at this lineup. Bijoux, [02:18]
BingoBoingo Wrinkles and Kevin? Talk about a murderer's row." [02:18]
mircea_popescu is this what fat people think sports are ? [02:19]
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BingoBoingo Yes [02:19]
BingoBoingo Except with puppies [02:19]
pete_dushenski as played exclusively by the hippies that alf trips over at 'health food store' [02:20]
pete_dushenski or is this some ploy to get fillies into competitive fantasy sports ? [02:21]
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mod6 <+mircea_popescu> wait shouldn't shiva 2 be restated instead ? << this is probably a better. and its not even in the mirror at this point anyway. [02:22]
mod6 good catch though! [02:22]
mod6 i apprecaite your efforts here. [02:22]
mod6 no rush anyway, im gonna pick this stuff back up tomorrow. [02:23]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Prolly the later [02:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 225574 @ 0.00055605 = 125.4304 BTC [-] {6} [02:27]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: didn't some usgmegacorp try something similar recently only to have it backfire spectacularly ? [02:30]
BingoBoingo Which time? [02:30]
pete_dushenski aha. #hackahairdryer by ibm. [02:30]
BingoBoingo But no, the puppybowl has a surprisingly long history. [02:31]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390735 << i have a very similar board here, a 'tyan' [02:31]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 05:12:41; mircea_popescu: that's a pretty sweet board. [02:31]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: werd [02:31]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390736 << dafuq, who uses mb vga for anything [02:32]
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assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 05:13:11; BingoBoingo: Dual opteron, apparently only text mode works but who needs graphics when you have two opterons? [02:32]
BingoBoingo People who want to put it into a mobile enclosure do [02:32]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390743 << i ain't keeping locally anything that won't push ~5000x5000 pixels [02:33]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 05:15:11; mircea_popescu: if it computes it belongs in a dc. [02:33]
asciilifeform do ~that~ from dc. [02:33]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: how do you have something ~that~ powerful running... silently ? and without iridium toilet ? [02:33]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: it is not silent at all, this is in the logs. and it drives me mad. [02:34]
asciilifeform about same noise level as sov refrigerator. [02:34]
pete_dushenski aha. you ~wished~ it were silent. i misunderstood. i thought you had it nailed already. [02:34]
asciilifeform every so often, i go on a binge of installing gaskets, costly german fans, etc. but the result is always the same: [02:35]
asciilifeform machine that sound EXACTLY as annoying [02:35]
asciilifeform ear - recalibrates. [02:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76250 @ 0.00055566 = 42.3691 BTC [-] {3} [02:35]
asciilifeform presently installing something quite like iridium toilet - slowly replacing the whole raid with ssd [02:35]
asciilifeform (in raid5) [02:35]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390737 << pcengines co. does this ! [02:37]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 05:13:17; mircea_popescu: incidentally, this would be a pretty interesting sideline/possible job for someone dedicated. sell pre-made, fully liberated board+chip kits. for to go intos ervers etc. [02:37]
asciilifeform their board isn't even SOLD with ANYTHING but coreboot (linuxbios) [02:37]
pete_dushenski but not in wot [02:37]
asciilifeform and it's a g-series. while it lasts. [02:37]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: amd is not in wot, while we're at it [02:37]
asciilifeform and is in fact certifiably satanic today [02:37]
pete_dushenski we're not at it ? [02:37]
pete_dushenski not everything has to drill to the earth's core. [02:38]
asciilifeform point being, there are not so many mb makers which ship full schematics. [02:39]
asciilifeform and intel-free. [02:39]
asciilifeform i know of only 2, actually. [02:39]
pete_dushenski tyan and... [02:40]
asciilifeform tyan is not on the list [02:41]
asciilifeform 'pcengines' and 'gizmosphere' [02:41]
* pete_dushenski googles, reads [02:41]
asciilifeform they sell very similar items [02:42]
asciilifeform amd g-series ultraminiature things [02:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92619 @ 0.00055501 = 51.4045 BTC [-] {6} [02:46]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/3RWHY92.txt [02:50]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1P4WZWj ) [02:50]
BingoBoingo ty [02:50]
mircea_popescu yeah, pcengines could alternatively get in the wot. [02:51]
asciilifeform only to get negrated once they run out of g-series ? l0l [02:51]
asciilifeform a mb maker is a lowly creature, sorta like a btc miner, follows where the wind blows. [02:52]
mircea_popescu yeah well. [02:52]
asciilifeform x86 is a moribund thing. [02:53]
asciilifeform iirc boards that will boot ~only~ winblowz 10 have already hit the shops. [02:55]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell danielpbarron please to point mr. lee (https://twitter.com/binarybits) to http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/letter-to-timothy-b-lee-january-28-2016.txt jic it ended up in his email spam filter (and so it's public). gracias amigo! [02:59]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:59]
mircea_popescu i dun see anyone getting negrated through communicating sanely. [02:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RThPNU ) [02:59]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: ipads that only boot iosx were playing the same game before that. mac desktops before that too. [03:00]
* pete_dushenski has not tried, say, gentoo on xeon mac, can't confirm [03:01]
pete_dushenski "Then in Davos I joined people like Kevin Spacey, and Jimmy Wales (the founder of Wikipedia) on a panel talking about cyber-security. The general sense in the room is that a distributed, encrypted database like the blockchain could be key to creating a more secure computing environment and a more secure world." << now i get why reporters call ~me~ a "security expert", because motherfucking 60yo actors are sittin [03:04]
pete_dushenski g on cyber-security panels in davos. now i get it. [03:04]
pete_dushenski quote via http://www.thestar.com/business/tech_news/2016/01/23/the-blockchain-big-opportunity-or-big-danger.html [03:04]
assbot The blockchain: big opportunity or big danger? | Toronto Star ... ( http://bit.ly/1P4XAam ) [03:04]
pete_dushenski author is "Don Tapscott a best-selling author most recently The Digital Economy, Adjunct Professor at the Rotman School of Management, University of Toronto and the chancellor of Trent University." [03:05]
pete_dushenski fwvliiw [03:05]
danielpbarron pete_dushenski, https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/693679552187502592 [03:19]
pete_dushenski haha perfect [03:19]
mats this torontostar shit is replete with english mistakes [03:21]
mats nobody takes journalism seriously [03:22]
pete_dushenski too busy buying and selling each other's homes [03:22]
mats >The enthusiasm was in stark contrast to my next meeting meeting—with 60 CEO’s of big banks banks. [03:22]
mats what the actual fuck fuck [03:23]
pete_dushenski lel [03:24]
pete_dushenski no one could've predicted that reading trash rags gets one riled up [03:24]
mats ;;seen nubbins` [03:27]
gribble nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 48 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <+mircea_popescu> in other news, chick on okcupid : "porque no me escribis en castellano << they say castellano in peru too, but if i'm not mistaken this is not universal in south america? [03:27]
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* BingoBoingo is now known as PeteBlawgBot [03:28]
PeteBlawgBot http://qntra.net/2016/01/chiraqi-police-sabotaging-surveillance-equipment/ [03:28]
assbot Chiraqi Police Sabotaging Surveillance Equipment | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RTjYcz ) [03:28]
* PeteBlawgBot is now known as BingoBoingo [03:28]
BingoBoingo In other Chiraqi news http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/obama-to-address-deeply-divided-illinois-legislature/article_10ce4082-8178-5fc9-92dd-d093852c661f.html [03:34]
assbot Obama to address deeply divided Illinois Legislature : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1P4ZiZe ) [03:34]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: l0l! [03:34]
BingoBoingo Obama is finally going attend an Illinois senate session [03:35]
mircea_popescu dude who the fuck are kevin spacey and jimbo wales already. [03:37]
mircea_popescu the consensus among kim kardashian, zsa zsa gabor, hussein bahamas and that guy from cheers is that a kilogram of feathers really should be lighter than a kilogram of derp entrails. [03:38]
mircea_popescu in other news of similar weight and importance, leyla black was kinda hot a decade ago. [03:39]
BingoBoingo ^ totally [03:40]
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mircea_popescu not really her retarded totemcash/loadedcash/twistys idiotic stuff. but she did some ok outdoor work back in the day. [03:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91900 @ 0.00056673 = 52.0825 BTC [+] {3} [03:42]
* mircea_popescu does the leyla black with new girls to this very day. [03:43]
BingoBoingo lol, yeah these thinks are kinda transient [03:43]
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ben_vulpes what is "the leyla black"? [03:50]
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* assbot gives voice to punkman [03:55]
ben_vulpes http://www.northofreality.com/secrets/ << bit of a shame that aramcheck's not in the wot and on patreon, i like his weirdfic. [03:55]
punkman btw the ASUS KCMA-D8 port was offered for $15k, wonder who paid it https://www.mail-archive.com/coreboot@coreboot.org/msg45741.html [03:55]
assbot Secrets — NORTH OF REALITY ... ( http://bit.ly/1RTmb7L ) [03:55]
assbot [coreboot] ASUS KCMA-D8 workstation board port offer ... ( http://bit.ly/1RTmb7V ) [03:55]
punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390737 < I've been considering that for a while, but I'm not really into junkyard-wars [03:57]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 05:13:17; mircea_popescu: incidentally, this would be a pretty interesting sideline/possible job for someone dedicated. sell pre-made, fully liberated board+chip kits. for to go intos ervers etc. [03:57]
punkman although I guess these Asus boards are still being made at the factory [03:58]
ben_vulpes yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" .
"otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings?
[04:05]
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punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390063 sure, if I can get low-power machine with ECC, I probably wouldn't mind the slower cores for most uses. These looked kinda neat http://www.tilera.com/products/?ezchip=585&spage=618 [04:06]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 18:26:28; jurov: asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out... << you really want like, 64 shitty cores on the workstation instead of 4x x86? [04:06]
assbot EZchip | TILE-Gx72 ... ( http://bit.ly/1QA3kvl ) [04:06]
punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390202 gonna need an audio track to go with that [04:12]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 19:45:55; danielpbarron: get nubbins` or someone to make some nice artwork on it and i'll buy [04:12]
punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390334 what does rebase mean here? it's a term of art in version control [04:13]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 01:25:55; mircea_popescu: ideally, you go read the whole fucking thing, rebase and sign as your own. [04:13]
ben_vulpes has anyone else noticed the following when using build-bitcoind-9999*K.sh? [04:13]
ben_vulpes "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? [04:13]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: need korsgaard's key [04:14]
ben_vulpes punkman: by my read 'rebase' as mircea_popescu uses it means 'dump into the v tree' [04:14]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-01-2016#1358799 [04:14]
assbot Logged on 02-01-2016 05:43:08; phf: gpg: key 59C36319: public key "Peter Korsgaard " imported [04:14]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: nah, because i get "good signature from korsgaard" [04:14]
pete_dushenski oh hm. i dunno then. sorry [04:15]
ben_vulpes but this fucking term just lost my motherfucking scrollback, because people reinventing wheels for os x have no historical context [04:15]
punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390083 < might be good as a separate utility. cuts down on v.pl dependencies too. [04:15]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 18:38:04; mod6: is it worthwhile to rip out my graphing stuff out of V? [04:15]
* ben_vulpes goes digging through the gui for "never ever fucking toss my scrollback option" [04:15]
* pete_dushenski to dream of quieter nights [04:16]
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punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390090 several weeks of testing just for V? good god my dear fellow [04:17]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 18:40:13; mod6: so -- i might need several weeks at min to test out v99995 of V [04:17]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [04:17]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 378.72, vol: 2286.81911093 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.491, vol: 2894.33858 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 378.35, vol: 7789.42880116 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 380.0, vol: 0.41873277 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.104, vol: 39441.74380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 380.99979, vol: 189.24228801 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 382.3343, vol: 18.40843268 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [04:17]
BingoBoingo ;;more [04:17]
gribble 382.917712561 [04:17]
ben_vulpes punkman: "he's a good man, and thorough" [04:17]
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punkman on second read I hope it just means mod6 would be busy doing other things [04:20]
ben_vulpes unrelatedly, while we're ripping the rug out from under mod6, is there a good reason to continue with the inconsistent directory structure of `./.seals' and `./patches'? [04:20]
punkman ben_vulpes: how is it inconsistent? [04:21]
ben_vulpes well one is prefixed with the stupid unix hidden-file/dir period convention [04:21]
punkman oooh right [04:21]
punkman I just have ./sigs ./patches in vit [04:22]
ben_vulpes mhm [04:23]
ben_vulpes punkman: vit's a v.py descendant, correct? [04:23]
punkman no, complete rewrite [04:25]
ben_vulpes ever share it? [04:25]
punkman http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-September/000166.html [04:25]
assbot [BTC-dev] Some test patches and my V implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1NZjGPg ) [04:25]
ben_vulpes aha [04:26]
ben_vulpes nifty [04:26]
punkman I did start with v.py, but mangled most things [04:27]
punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389213 << gotta figure out a way to minimize the re-grinding imho [04:28]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 20:20:44; ascii_butugychag: the reason why i once suggested breaking up all patches into atomic patchons is that right now we have a stricter than necessary dependency flow [04:28]
punkman why I kept saying that I don't like release patches that touch *everything* [04:29]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell mod6 i got v.pl into a weird place where it didn't clean up its gnupg tempdir. perhaps consider using an "exit_gracefully" function where you're currently simply "die"-ing. [04:32]
gribble The operation succeeded. [04:32]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell mod6 alternatively, consider using mktemp -d [04:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [04:33]
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ben_vulpes i am struck by a question i find interesting [04:35]
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ben_vulpes is everyone who hacks on this thing to write and use their own vtronic cockpit controls? or is the production of /a/ vtron usable in other contexts a goal? [04:36]
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ben_vulpes this is probably a purposes and causes thing, huh. avoid working towards the purpose of usable software for other people, and proceed from the cause of "hell is other people's code"... [04:37]
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ben_vulpes ;;later tell mod6 stick a random file with .html suffix in the patches dir to reproduce the stale gnupg dir big [04:39]
gribble The operation succeeded. [04:39]
ben_vulpes bug* [04:40]
ben_vulpes probably any non-vpatch file'd do the trick. [04:40]
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punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390093 would provide hands-off testing to see whether your new patch compiles to different archs, with different libc, etc. think jenkins [04:55]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 18:41:43; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << what would this be good for? you are welcome to sign + post the binaries to ml yourself [04:55]
punkman ben_vulpes: what happened to your buildatron? [04:55]
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ben_vulpes punkman: jenkins? or v.lisp? [05:00]
ben_vulpes or ak47.sh? [05:00]
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ben_vulpes i shut the jenkins down because full syncs of each patch was prohibitively resource and time intensive and parallelized poorly [05:01]
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ben_vulpes v.lisp has just been languishing on the island of poorly written and embarassing software [05:02]
punkman what's ak47.sh [05:02]
ben_vulpes and buildroot handily obsoleted ak47.sh [05:02]
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ben_vulpes a well polished bash turd [05:03]
ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/02/01_hacking-on-the-satoshi-codebase-some-pointers.html [05:03]
assbot Hacking on the Satoshi Codebase: Some Pointers ... ( http://bit.ly/200Hrru ) [05:03]
ben_vulpes never for battle [05:04]
punkman what's a full sync in jenkins? [05:04]
ben_vulpes another entry in the long list of things i've written that never made it into the truck [05:04]
ben_vulpes trunk* [05:04]
ben_vulpes a full sync of each bitcoind produced by each patch sent to the ml [05:06]
punkman just the compiling part and maybe the existing unit tests would be good enough [05:06]
punkman I'd help rig it up if the foundation so wishes [05:06]
ben_vulpes heh [05:07]
ben_vulpes funnily enough i just nuked its builddir [05:07]
ben_vulpes this was god i don't know how many months ago [05:07]
ben_vulpes dunno man i don't actually think it's of much value. having actual humans in the actual wot build things is much more important. [05:08]
ben_vulpes scripting the whole process in the context of "continuous integration servers" is nifty, but finding the noob caltrops is also important. [05:08]
ben_vulpes punkman: you could always contribute to b,tmsr's deficit by standing the jenkins instance up yourself. [05:09]
ben_vulpes ah wait no that wasn't ak47.sh [05:10]
ben_vulpes punkman: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/06/21_a-tour-of-bitcoind-booting-to-its-first-thread.html << in there [05:11]
assbot a tour of bitcoind booting to its first thread ... ( http://bit.ly/1ONsjId ) [05:11]
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ben_vulpes http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html << i swear i saw some mentione of this earlier but cannot find it now. for those playing along at home, the sig name for these patches that will please v.pl is .vpatch..asc [05:58]
assbot [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P ) [05:58]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell mod6 i believe i have a bug for you: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8d9ad794-4b47-407e-9db4-a9a8cb2c70b4/ [06:10]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/20fwNTi ) [06:10]
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ben_vulpes ;;later tell jurov and eulorans et al you might want to look into this tinyscheme thing [06:14]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:14]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell diana_coman ^^ [06:15]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:15]
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* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [06:26]
diana_coman thanks ben_vulpes , I'll have a look; it's been ages since I last wrote anything in Scheme as such, but if there's a chance of moving the client away from cpp it's certainly worth having a look at [06:27]
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ben_vulpes diana_coman: i doubt you'll move the client away from cpp, but tinyscheme is a potential route to embedding scheme /in/ the existing client. [06:34]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform plans to use it to inspect memory of running bitcoinds in real time [06:35]
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ben_vulpes diana_coman: relevant barebones howto: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html [06:36]
assbot [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP ) [06:36]
ben_vulpes ( http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390952 << among other things, ofc) [06:37]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 09:33:50; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform plans to use it to inspect memory of running bitcoinds in real time [06:37]
diana_coman well, there is no hard requirement as such to have the client written in cpp; but it's true that it's quite a huge effort to make an alternative, sane client (for one thing, I'd love a text-only client for instance) [06:38]
ben_vulpes diana_coman: no hard requirement, sure, i just imagine that replacing the crystalspace client's going to be no small pile of reverse engineering. i say this knowing nothing about the cs server/client software relationship. [06:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115900 @ 0.00055539 = 64.3697 BTC [-] {2} [07:08]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117200 @ 0.00055835 = 65.4386 BTC [+] {2} [07:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107750 @ 0.00056069 = 60.4143 BTC [+] {2} [07:42]
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jurov ben_vulpes: eulora code is several levels more crooked than satoshi's, i tried to ffi python and left that for later in disgust. [08:08]
jurov that aside, there are completely different set of requirements, like, easy debugging. if lisp, then rather something with slime and good library bundled. [08:11]
BingoBoingo https://www.rt.com/op-edge/330710-politics-america-hate-intolerance/ >> "In these times, the ‘little guy’ cannot afford to pay rent on the trailer home, not to mention a bottle of brew. The ‘little guy’ now possesses a large amount of anger about the political system that doesn't work for him, which shouldn’t be surprising since he repeatedly voted against his own interests during the republican tenure. Or, on the other [08:13]
BingoBoingo hand, he voted for change advanced by the Obama team’s marketing "hopium" which resulted in him running in circles backwards in socio-economic terms." [08:13]
assbot Politics of hate and intolerance alive & well in America’s ‘flyover country' — RT Op-Edge ... ( http://bit.ly/1VyPnit ) [08:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00055309 = 72.0676 BTC [-] {6} [08:14]
* shinohai would adore this >>> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390957 [08:24]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 09:36:51; diana_coman: well, there is no hard requirement as such to have the client written in cpp; but it's true that it's quite a huge effort to make an alternative, sane client (for one thing, I'd love a text-only client for instance) [08:24]
jurov eulora altclient is not exactly about "reverse engineering", but that the network protocol layer uses C++ primitives with liberally mixed preprocessor and templates [08:25]
jurov so far no idea how to convert that into anything saner, or ffi-interface that stuff [08:26]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [08:40]
gribble Current Blocks: 395946 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 1205 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [08:40]
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wyrdmantis ;;nethash [10:10]
gribble 1033158757.07 [10:10]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70134 @ 0.00055512 = 38.9328 BTC [+] {2} [11:08]
mircea_popescu hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? [11:27]
mircea_popescu ideally the result of a click should be a page including at least a) an enumerations of all the keys required to get there ; b) a script that will press to that particular height. [11:28]
mircea_popescu and thinking about it on the way from bed to machine, because this idea woke me up : it seems deedbot and the ml management really should be merged. any conceivable reason patches can't be submitted via deedbot's mechanism ? not necessarily to remove the email feeding, but as an add-on ? [11:29]
punkman making deeds with all the emails? [11:42]
mircea_popescu nah. [11:43]
mircea_popescu just, if you want to add a patch, should be able to dump it as dpaste also. [11:43]
punkman clearsigned patches get mangles line endings and things [11:44]
punkman *mangled [11:44]
mircea_popescu can has container. [11:46]
mircea_popescu http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-99/ << this guy is fucking epic lol. "go is gone. Yudkowsky sounds the alarm." and links a fb posting. [11:49]
assbot Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » Chaos Patch (#99) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPtcPz ) [11:49]
mircea_popescu so, so perfect. [11:49]
mircea_popescu or to quote a purple prose producer of recent fame in my household, "Her silky smooth butt-crack was flawless, the only interruption along the length of it, was her pink, rosy butt-hole. Underneath her crack, were her fluffy, velvety beef curtains, just looking so, so scrumptious." [11:50]
punkman needs moar links [11:50]
punkman http://www.drroyspencer.com/2016/01/on-that-2015-record-warmest-claim/ [11:57]
assbot On that 2015 Record Warmest Claim « Roy Spencer, PhD ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPu1YD ) [11:58]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390848 << http://trilema.com/2016/what-is-the-leyla-black/ [12:14]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 06:49:42; ben_vulpes: what is "the leyla black"? [12:14]
assbot What is the Leyla Black ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPwdza ) [12:14]
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asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390987 << mega-unsurprise [12:19]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 14:48:21; mircea_popescu: http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-99/ << this guy is fucking epic lol. "go is gone. Yudkowsky sounds the alarm." and links a fb posting. [12:19]
asciilifeform !s lesswrong [12:19]
assbot 34 results for 'lesswrong' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lesswrong [12:19]
mircea_popescu nono but the circumstances. he posted on fb ? [12:19]
mircea_popescu about the dangers of evil ai ? [12:20]
asciilifeform their cult has been 'evaporatively cooling' (y's own term!111) for ages. [12:20]
mircea_popescu so that what, the idiot fbheads can click the correct emotional response icon to help the evil ai segment them ? [12:20]
mircea_popescu ah-HA! [12:20]
mircea_popescu i knew gmaxwell wasn't intelligent enough to come up with that stupid shit on his own. [12:20]
asciilifeform and 'post on fb' to these benighted folk is same as voting in the obummer election, etc. - just 'something all civilized do' or whatnot. [12:20]
mircea_popescu so he scarfed it up from derpowksi ? [12:20]
asciilifeform http://lesswrong.com/lw/lr/evaporative_cooling_of_group_beliefs << original piece on same [12:21]
assbot Evaporative Cooling of Group Beliefs - Less Wrong ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPwUZv ) [12:21]
mircea_popescu pfff [12:21]
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mircea_popescu "I was looking at a Java applet which demonstrates the use of evaporative cooling to form a Bose-Einstein condensate, when it occurred to me that another force entirely might operate to increase fanaticism. " [12:22]
mircea_popescu ahaha what. it OCCURRED TO HIM ? [12:22]
mircea_popescu heavens to herpinstocks, the idea is older than the fucking persian empire. [12:22]
* assbot gives voice to asciilifeform [12:23]
mircea_popescu but the very grand intellectualistic value of someone who was watching einsten play out of his bose speakers in his spare time is well noted, of course. [12:23]
mircea_popescu how fortunate are we to have such bright minds around us. i gotta get myself one of them bose. [12:23]
asciilifeform wrong bose [12:23]
mircea_popescu you don't say. [12:23]
asciilifeform of all things in the piece, picking at the one that actually made sense ? [12:24]
mircea_popescu anyway, it occured to me while i was eating a niels bohr raisin cake (with little electron raisins floating in the batter) that this is how fucking spammers work, too. as discussed here a nujmber of times already. [12:24]
asciilifeform though i don't know why he had to go for the condensate, ordinary water behaves in quite the same way [12:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it didn't make sense. [12:24]
mircea_popescu quite. [12:25]
mircea_popescu see ? [12:25]
asciilifeform now - yes. [12:25]
mircea_popescu pretentious fuckwad / out of his weight ignoramus for the fucking win over here. [12:25]
mircea_popescu THIS is the product of wikipedia. THIS AND ONLY THIS. [12:25]
asciilifeform y suffered from delusions of physics - he was 'raised for physics' by his father, but didn't make the cut, and never lived it down [12:25]
mircea_popescu it doesn't "bring science". it empowers ambitious knownothing. [12:25]
asciilifeform ended up even writing 'guide to qm' for his cultists [12:25]
mircea_popescu and it occurred to me while conducting fart ciclotron reactions in my spare time that there's nothing more dangerous than an idiot with a little knowledge [12:26]
mircea_popescu than an ambitious idiot with a little knowledge. [12:26]
mircea_popescu and this is what wikipedia does. nothing else. [12:26]
mircea_popescu worst fucking idea in the history of ideas, if they just let jimbo fuck children until he fell over the world'd have been better off. [12:26]
asciilifeform the hilarious part is that y had a piece on ~this~ also [12:27]
asciilifeform y'know, sorta like sc4mz0rz, card sharps, understand fraud better than honest folk [12:27]
mircea_popescu myeah. [12:28]
asciilifeform http://lesswrong.com/lw/p0/to_spread_science_keep_it_secret << one of these pieces by y [12:28]
assbot To Spread Science, Keep It Secret - Less Wrong ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tv2X8d ) [12:28]
mircea_popescu he's 2nd generation scum, aims to systemd the original scum. [12:28]
mircea_popescu this is in fact how it works : we, aim to V the original lispworld. scum - aims to systemd wikipedia. [12:29]
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asciilifeform the mega-question is why thiel is paying him to do this 24/7 [12:29]
mircea_popescu java fucking appled NEVER DEMONSTRATED ANYTHING OMFG FUCK YOUR DUMB MOTHER WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S BROOMSTICK [12:29]
asciilifeform (and enough to support a harem, if rumour is to be believed) [12:29]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform because thiel got money and no self respect. [12:29]
asciilifeform this is an explanation ? [12:30]
mircea_popescu i mean that quite profoundly - thiel has seen the narrow horizon of the pen and contented himself that "this is everywhere". [12:30]
mircea_popescu this is what having no self respect fundamentally means. [12:30]
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asciilifeform why not put the money in a pyre and light it? [12:30]
asciilifeform would do loads more good than feeding yudkowsky [12:30]
mircea_popescu "good". [12:30]
mircea_popescu there can not be any good. [12:30]
asciilifeform good in the sense of refraining from creating monster [12:31]
mircea_popescu o check it out, bose-einstein bombmaking! [12:31]
mircea_popescu this is really good cracked.com article [12:31]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390849 << prolly should tell the man. [12:32]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 06:54:12; ben_vulpes: http://www.northofreality.com/secrets/ << bit of a shame that aramcheck's not in the wot and on patreon, i like his weirdfic. [12:32]
* asciilifeform remembers writing to yudkowsky in the late '90s, when both were harmless and penniless crackpots [12:32]
asciilifeform didja know he was thrown out of school ? [12:33]
mircea_popescu for ? [12:33]
asciilifeform psych breakdown [12:33]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390862 << pretty much exactly that. as per https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Rebasing [12:33]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:11:56; punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390334 what does rebase mean here? it's a term of art in version control [12:33]
assbot Git - Rebasing ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPyj24 ) [12:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i didn't know they expel ru kids for that [12:34]
asciilifeform he [12:34]
asciilifeform yudkowsky is an american [12:34]
mircea_popescu oh. [12:34]
asciilifeform fella has interesting bio, he's an escapee from, iirc, hassidic jews [12:35]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390867 << no, i mean moving all stuff downsteream to depend on a' rather than a. this is rebasing the stuff downstream : from a base in a to a base in a'. [12:35]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:13:19; ben_vulpes: punkman: by my read 'rebase' as mircea_popescu uses it means 'dump into the v tree' [12:35]
mircea_popescu american or actual hasids ? [12:35]
asciilifeform afaik - actual, but living in usa [12:36]
mircea_popescu there is no such thing. [12:36]
asciilifeform then i have nfi, i simply do not know enough about subj [12:36]
mircea_popescu and for the record : ACTUAL hasidic jews, as found strictly beyond the pale, were some of the more pleasant folk you coulde ever meet, and greatly informs my tolerance of jews, as well as the tolerance of everyone who's not born past the stupid women line in western europe. [12:37]
asciilifeform presumably his father being a physicist of some kind, in the secular world, would suggest 'damaged' hassid [12:37]
mircea_popescu meanwhile the american hasids are a sort of jehova's witnesses in a slightly altered color scheme [12:37]
mircea_popescu ((the stupid women line in western europe is sometimes called the Hajnal line) [12:38]
* asciilifeform never saw this before, but it makes mega-sense [12:39]
asciilifeform the orc-human border ! [12:39]
mircea_popescu mno. [12:40]
mircea_popescu there's absolutely nothing human about the sandvaginated saltmarshes. [12:40]
asciilifeform term of art [12:40]
mircea_popescu not in my art. [12:40]
asciilifeform from pelevin's yarn, where the precisely 'sandvaginated' folk living in antigravity sphere called themselves 'human' and, derisively, the still healthy folk below on the ground, 'orcs' [12:41]
mircea_popescu i follow the palaiologos tradition. whereby the orcs are a slightly more complex thing. [12:42]
mircea_popescu by and large, "people who do not feel comfortable living inside the wall". [12:42]
mircea_popescu or, "people with no indoor voice". [12:42]
asciilifeform ^ this also. [12:42]
mircea_popescu or, "people whose main impulse when confronted with an excuisite jeweled item is to rip out the jewels" [12:43]
mircea_popescu etc. [12:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98235 @ 0.00055449 = 54.4703 BTC [-] {2} [12:44]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390980 << i remember asking for this some time last year [12:45]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 14:27:50; mircea_popescu: and thinking about it on the way from bed to machine, because this idea woke me up : it seems deedbot and the ml management really should be merged. any conceivable reason patches can't be submitted via deedbot's mechanism ? not necessarily to remove the email feeding, but as an add-on ? [12:45]
asciilifeform but the things-to-be-done are many, and the hands - few [12:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha quite possibly. you keep trying to bite corcoduse. [12:45]
mircea_popescu do you know what corcoduse are ? [12:45]
asciilifeform something like a quince ? [12:46]
mircea_popescu nah, they're the fruits of a plum-like wild plum tree, grows everywhere the hasids go [12:47]
mircea_popescu pretty sure it was in odessa too. kids tend to eat them - sour stuff, makes them sick. [12:48]
mircea_popescu and re saltmarshes, the cannonical line being of course "Die Schweden die haben verflucht schlechtes Geld, wer weiß ob der Oestreicher besseres hält." [12:49]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform do you know 'em ? [12:50]
asciilifeform the fruit? only from grandfather's botanical book [12:51]
asciilifeform but i get the idea [12:51]
mircea_popescu aha. well the idea is - eaten too soon! :D [12:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390865 << i actually never saw this. wtf is this ? [12:51]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:12:20; ben_vulpes: "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? [12:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.00055671 = 25.3303 BTC [+] {2} [12:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390875 << i'd be surprised if you actually can ever find this. [12:53]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:14:35; *: ben_vulpes goes digging through the gui for "never ever fucking toss my scrollback option" [12:53]
mircea_popescu the item figures prominently in my own mental list of nonsense ; that list is an essential part of why alf's raging against computing makes sense to me. [12:53]
mircea_popescu "seriously, you can't repeat what you said to me ? slaves get caned for this!" "but but but mp, it is a computer, it can't save an infinity of stuff" "WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU MAKING A MACHINE SAY INFINITY OF STUFF TO ME" "well it's not really infinite, just..." "bring the cane" [12:54]
asciilifeform ^ [12:55]
asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 << see points 2, 3, 5. [12:55]
assbot Loper OS » Seven Laws of Sane Personal Computing ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tv5aAr ) [12:55]
mircea_popescu fundamental problem in the design of systems, too. [12:55]
mircea_popescu which understanding is why i'm so lisp friendly, actually. [12:56]
mircea_popescu the derps making osen treat the scrollback as a wholly separate, contextual-less buffer. it's not "what we just said to this guy" [12:56]
mircea_popescu and similarly no program replay and for the same reason etc. [12:56]
mircea_popescu a large stack of various items all designed to talk into the void. how is this a computer ? [12:56]
mircea_popescu it's just a bile of bullhorns. [12:56]
mircea_popescu computing gets to grow a fucking indoor voice and progress out of orcdom. [12:57]
asciilifeform pile of jewls jewl-rippers tore from their mounts, as was their impulse. [12:57]
mircea_popescu s/bile/pile/ s/gets/gots/ [12:57]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390901 << i think this is by now well agreed upon :) [13:02]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:27:47; punkman: why I kept saying that I don't like release patches that touch *everything* [13:02]
asciilifeform it is actually quite feasible to have a patch that 'touches everything' but is visually inspectable in three minutes - e.g., mod6's proposed 'release patch' that merely tacks a comment to the top of every file. [13:03]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390907 << a) variety of implementation is considered good for security ; b) community of usage should be user driven not developer driven (or GOD FORBID) design mandated. [13:04]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:35:23; ben_vulpes: is everyone who hacks on this thing to write and use their own vtronic cockpit controls? or is the production of /a/ vtron usable in other contexts a goal? [13:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the difference lies in the meaning of "touch" [13:04]
asciilifeform aha [13:05]
asciilifeform as for the multitude of vtrons, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but i am seeing folks suffer from easily-curable issues that were not present in my original prototype (which, recall, had NO state other than patch/seal/keys working set, and did not use the net, and had the 'origin' command, etc.) [13:06]
asciilifeform on the other hand i didn't have the graph, or sane parallel leaf handling. [13:06]
mircea_popescu check it out, we recreated history! [13:06]
asciilifeform 'let thousand flowers bloom' [13:07]
mircea_popescu ontogenesis follows filogenesis! [13:07]
* asciilifeform once wrote 'oncogenesis follows philogenesis', but prof did not notice, did not collapse laughing [13:08]
mircea_popescu lol [13:08]
mircea_popescu the thing with being a teacher is that it trains you to neglect so much lols. [13:08]
mircea_popescu you can't sit there all day laughing your ass off at the endless parade of idjits [13:08]
mircea_popescu you'd form a bose-lolstein condensated milk curd or something. [13:08]
asciilifeform see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-01-2016#1382703 [13:09]
assbot Logged on 23-01-2016 14:46:32; asciilifeform: 'who has been in the army, does not laugh in the circus' (tm) (r) (su) [13:09]
mircea_popescu he who has been a teacher will not be amused at the zoo. [13:09]
asciilifeform quite. [13:09]
mircea_popescu im telling you - cunts run on perl [13:09]
mircea_popescu the stuff women spawn into this world is simply out of this world in its broken, surprisingly counterfunctional variety [13:10]
mircea_popescu "crooked timber" puts it too lightly by about two biological regnums. [13:11]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390908 << mno. the idea is that "code usable by other people" is nonsense. instead - write code well, that SHOULD be usable, and if it isn't usable the people can be fixed. [13:17]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:36:07; ben_vulpes: this is probably a purposes and causes thing, huh. avoid working towards the purpose of usable software for other people, and proceed from the cause of "hell is other people's code"... [13:17]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390931 <<< how would this work, i don't follow ? you plan to host a farm of various arches etc, and run automated build and test scripts on it with each release ? patch ? [13:19]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 08:05:44; punkman: I'd help rig it up if the foundation so wishes [13:19]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390950 << more complicated than that. all in good time, except the boys keep getting excited and outrunning the horses! [13:22]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 09:26:17; diana_coman: thanks ben_vulpes , I'll have a look; it's been ages since I last wrote anything in Scheme as such, but if there's a chance of moving the client away from cpp it's certainly worth having a look at [13:22]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390962 << it is ; it also pulls a ton of miserable dependencies (graphics!) [13:23]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 11:07:31; jurov: ben_vulpes: eulora code is several levels more crooked than satoshi's, i tried to ffi python and left that for later in disgust. [13:23]
mircea_popescu "The ?little guy? now possesses a large amount of anger about the political system that doesn't work for him, which shouldn?t be surprising since he repeatedly voted against his own interests during the republican tenure. " <<< aaaahahahaha. [13:24]
mircea_popescu check it out - socialists agree it's the victim's fault! [13:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21782 @ 0.00055672 = 12.1265 BTC [+] [13:25]
mircea_popescu https://topynate.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/note-on-the-block-size-limit/ << not terrible. [13:27]
assbot Note on the block size limit | Particulars ... ( http://bit.ly/1RTYex2 ) [13:27]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for some reason none of the 'not terrible' folk express the thing in correct terms, which is that tx is a ~cost~ to other people who run nodes [13:42]
asciilifeform the node capacity is just presumed, somehow, to drop from the sky, like 'obamaphone' [13:42]
mircea_popescu quite. [13:42]
mircea_popescu i don't think many people actually understand how bitcoin works. [13:43]
asciilifeform bbbut this is basic [13:43]
mircea_popescu the obvious parts especially [13:43]
mircea_popescu because the thing is so complicated it encourages people to approach it through narratives rather than observation [13:43]
mircea_popescu and the problem with narratives is the same problem train tracks have : 20 miles away from the track is much further than 200 miles DOWN the track [13:44]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389935 << see thread [13:44]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 16:29:32; mircea_popescu: it's fucking ridiculous. the current cost of 14.7kb is something like [13:44]
mircea_popescu i know, that's why i put that sort of stuff in. help the thinking hats. [13:44]
mircea_popescu anyway, it's miserable design while at it. seriously, X pays Y for his imposition upon Z ? [13:45]
asciilifeform and if we calculate the ~long-term~ cost for me of storing 14kB, not only the disk, but the mains current, migrating from disk to disk, parity checks nightly, etc. - this is a pretty penny [13:45]
mircea_popescu but this was also discussed variously and from multiple angles. [13:45]
asciilifeform esp. since i gotta keep storing it for so long as i care to have any dealing with bitcoin [13:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform technically, you don't get to factor back-ups, because the chain itself is its best backup. [13:46]
asciilifeform a backup that is not under my control is not a backup at all. [13:46]
asciilifeform can call it something else, it is useful, aha, but NOT backup. [13:46]
mircea_popescu right but you see what i mean. [13:46]
asciilifeform miserable design, like carnot engine is miserable, but it is quite unclear that a less-miserable alternative physically is possible [13:46]
mircea_popescu no argument. [13:47]
asciilifeform but yes, it fundamentally it violates the principle i stated here as 'nobody gets anything just for showing up, or the flies eat the meat' (see the bastard blocks thread, and the single-packet authentication as elixir against ddos threads) [13:47]
asciilifeform which is why i predict that bitcoin is condemned to migrate behind the very tall fortress walls of something like gossipd [13:48]
asciilifeform where indeed nobody gets value for showing up and being a fly [13:48]
mircea_popescu research went into this in the deep, dank cellars of my dirigible. there's a lot of the original rock involved. it may even not be wrong design, horror of horrors. [13:48]
mircea_popescu anyway. this is a poorly understood point as of yet at all levels - the clergy and the populace. [13:49]
asciilifeform which? [13:49]
asciilifeform (which it) [13:49]
mircea_popescu the whole node conundrum [13:49]
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asciilifeform it is a working design IF placed behind walls. [13:49]
mircea_popescu understand something re that principle of yours : money is fundamentally a community function. [13:49]
mircea_popescu there is no objective money. [13:49]
asciilifeform if exposed to flies - quite wrong. [13:49]
* assbot gives voice to deedbot- [13:49]
mircea_popescu aha. [13:50]
asciilifeform right now there are simply insufficient flies, and their proboscis - insufficiently sharp and long, to make this point properly felt. [13:50]
mircea_popescu this is also true. [13:50]
mircea_popescu but the point does stand, that gold on mars is not gold but just a metal. [13:51]
asciilifeform money is a community thing, aha. but recall that in ancient times peasants lived and died for generations without, in many cases, ever touching money [13:51]
mircea_popescu surely. [13:51]
asciilifeform just like today most folks die without touching electron microscope. [13:51]
asciilifeform and what's the 'original rock' ? [13:53]
mircea_popescu in reference to which : http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-assets-m/#selection-107.0-107.200 [13:54]
assbot #bitcoin-assets +m on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NJywUs ) [13:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform original rock in construction is when you encounter stuff that's baseline and can't be dug into. in v-programming, when you've dug your way all the way to the genesis. [13:55]
asciilifeform ^ the highlighty thing never worked on any browser i could find, ftr [13:55]
asciilifeform ah [13:55]
mircea_popescu o.O ? [13:55]
asciilifeform aha, i don't firefox [13:55]
asciilifeform possibly works there ? [13:56]
mircea_popescu takes me straight to "The #bitcoin-assets aristocracy is not incompetent. Whether in anyone's estimation others not named are just as or even more competent is immaterial : arbitrariety is not the problem, incompetence is." [13:56]
asciilifeform ah [13:57]
asciilifeform also reminds me of the 'buluceala' article [13:57]
asciilifeform !s buluceala [13:57]
assbot 2 results for 'buluceala' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buluceala [13:57]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-01-2016#1359085 << thread [13:58]
assbot Logged on 02-01-2016 16:39:19; ascii_rear: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine [13:58]
mircea_popescu weird, works in pretty much all of 'em ;/ [13:58]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, re the community thing. [13:58]
asciilifeform 'So, are you whiter than him or darker than him ? If whiter, you go before him, if darker after him. Problem of "who goes first" solved, and inasmuch as it's an irrelevant problem anyway, it doesn't matter how it's solved just as long as it's solved. The Arabs implement this exact solution, which is why I never saw buluceala in their very popular mosques. The Romanians do not implement it, or anything else, and as such bulucea [13:58]
asciilifeform la is their way of life and they wonder why nothing can ever get done because all available time and any available resources get wasted in an effort to sort a group. (The Italians are the exact same way, by the way, and from what I hear the Greeks idem.)' << from mircea_popescutron [13:58]
mircea_popescu community doesn't mean "everyone". nor does it mean "people you'd expect". a guy's harem is not composed of all the women that exist, or all the women he ran into. nvertheless, it works just fine. [13:58]
asciilifeform there is this notion, probably rooted in very fundamental christian 'inner light' poison, that the excluding group has the burden of explaining to rando derp who asks 'but why not me!?' [14:00]
mircea_popescu no such thing. [14:00]
mircea_popescu woman that wants to know why she's not in the harem needs only ask herself. [14:01]
asciilifeform not in ~a~ harem [14:06]
asciilifeform but there is not necessarily a reason why she is not in ~the particular~ harem, and it is not the duty of that harem keeper to provide a logical 'reason' [14:06]
mircea_popescu well i said the not a. woman who wants to know why she isn't in any particular one ~need only ask herself~. [14:07]
asciilifeform then yes [14:08]
mircea_popescu "what did i do to be in ?" "how did it fail ?" "how did i fix it ?" "how did it fail still ?" "how did i fix that ?" [14:08]
mircea_popescu either she keeps going, in which case she's not in the harem yet, or else gives up, in which case there's the answer. [14:08]
mircea_popescu "oh but what of equality!" "the only thing equal to all its downstream is 0". [14:09]
mircea_popescu which is kinda why both nullities are so fascinated with theoretical socialism and why practical implementations of socialism amount to such resplendent nothing. [14:10]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 https://7chan.org/pr/src/The_Little_Schemer_4th_2.pdf << a real joy of a b00k, i taught a gurl scheme once from it [14:20]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NJBY1p ) [14:21]
asciilifeform ^ l333337 w4r3z!11111 [14:21]
asciilifeform socratic method. [14:21]
asciilifeform there is a sequel, just as riotously fun, 'the seasoned schemer.' [14:22]
asciilifeform you start out like a child, end up getting through lambda calculus, combinators [14:24]
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mod6 time to answer some questions [14:47]
asciilifeform ? [14:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95250 @ 0.00055295 = 52.6685 BTC [-] {6} [14:53]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" .
"otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings << where do you see this? this is not a thing. that would fail to compile/pass-interpreter-smell-test.
[14:54]
phf mircea_popescu: hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? << like http://104.131.72.249/patches/? (is in no way bulletproof, so i expect it to be down by the time i come back from breakfast) [14:54]
assbot trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1WV9qcg ) [14:54]
trinque mod6: http://deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-V99996.sh [15:01]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVa21v ) [15:01]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? << i've just run this again myselfand logged output here: http://dpaste.com/0P2QXYG.txt I'm not sure how what you saw happened there. :/ [15:04]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1WValcG ) [15:04]
trinque mod6: ah yep, I saw that doing the makefiles [15:05]
trinque the signed file is actually a signed textfile of the hash of the thing [15:05]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> unrelatedly, while we're ripping the rug out from under mod6, is there a good reason to continue with the inconsistent directory structure of `./.seals' and `./patches'? << this was in alf's original POC. i think it can stay. especially because you *can* name the dirs whatever you wish. [15:06]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 i got v.pl into a weird place where it didn't clean up its gnupg tempdir. perhaps consider using an "exit_gracefully" function where you're currently simply "die"-ing. << this basically /shouldn't/ happen. i'll follow your steps here and try to see what went wrong. [15:07]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 stick a random file with .html suffix in the patches dir to reproduce the stale gnupg dir big << this is what I'll test with. [15:07]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 i believe i have a bug for you: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8d9ad794-4b47-407e-9db4-a9a8cb2c70b4/ << lol, what did you do to this poor thing! [15:08]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/20fwNTi ) [15:08]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 https://7chan.org/pr/src/The_Little_Schemer_4th_2.pdf << a real joy of a b00k, i taught a gurl scheme once from it << hey thanks! [15:09]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NJBY1p ) [15:09]
trinque nice, I taught a girl with that one too, then graduated her to SICP [15:10]
asciilifeform soo i have a result [15:10]
asciilifeform but also a dilemma [15:10]
asciilifeform mod6 et al: [15:11]
mod6 <+trinque> mod6: ah yep, I saw that doing the makefiles << umm.. thats bad. because that means it doens't happen to me, but apparently it happens "in the field" from time to time? [15:11]
asciilifeform i fixed the very subtle version number setting bug [15:11]
asciilifeform but i do not know how to issue the patch [15:11]
asciilifeform it can be one of two kinds: [15:11]
asciilifeform 1) works with shiva-less main trunk [15:11]
asciilifeform 2) applied to shiva branch. [15:11]
asciilifeform 3) can issue both. [15:11]
asciilifeform 4) can let somebody else do it [15:12]
asciilifeform what'll it be [15:12]
asciilifeform ? [15:12]
mod6 1 [15:12]
mod6 or 3 [15:12]
asciilifeform ok gimme 10min or so then. [15:12]
mod6 something in shiva breaks it up eh? [15:12]
asciilifeform not exactly [15:12]
asciilifeform just that it touches same files. [15:12]
mod6 ok no rush here. [15:13]
mod6 take your time. [15:13]
mod6 trinque: thanks for deedbotting [15:13]
mod6 looks good. matches mine exactly. [15:14]
mod6 danielpbarron: hey there Sir, wanna update the wiki & test the steps from a newb standpoint when you get a moment? Y^ [15:15]
mod6 s/Y// [15:15]
mod6 ben_vulpes: thanks for testing V. i appreciate that. [15:15]
mod6 testing really helps at any time, but especially ~before~ we bundle up and release [15:16]
mod6 so if you see activity in that direction, ask for a test bundle or test code, whatever. good to catch any things like this before I send itout. [15:17]
mod6 furthermore ... [15:18]
mod6 <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? << i've just run this again myselfand logged output here: http://dpaste.com/0P2QXYG.txt I'm not sure how what you saw happened there. :/ << im wondering if this could be related to a GPG version thing or something? because the line of code that is executed here is this: [15:19]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1WValcG ) [15:19]
mod6 gpg --verify buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz.sign [15:19]
asciilifeform mod6: is malleus in the trunk ? [15:22]
asciilifeform i need to know what set to make [15:22]
asciilifeform in order to issue the verstring fix [15:22]
mod6 yeah, : http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches [15:23]
assbot Index of /v/patches ... ( http://bit.ly/1RU4eWQ ) [15:23]
asciilifeform ok [15:23]
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asciilifeform FOR FUCK'S SAKE [15:32]
asciilifeform turdatron ate my patch AGAIN [15:32]
asciilifeform BURNNN [15:32]
asciilifeform jurov ??? [15:33]
mod6 did you see my comments from yesterday about your re-bake? [15:34]
asciilifeform which ? [15:34]
mod6 ben_vulpes: ok, yeah, you through something into patches that it didn't die gracefully on: http://dpaste.com/1GJP2X4.txt [15:34]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RU50mC ) [15:34]
mod6 this will have to be fixed for next time. [15:35]
asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdatron_is_retarded_and_must_die.tar.gz << version string fix [15:35]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RU52Lj ) [15:35]
mod6 and next time, let's do this sort of testing before i ship [15:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.0005514 = 20.9532 BTC [-] {2} [15:35]
asciilifeform my patience with turdatron is at an end. [15:36]
asciilifeform at this point i don't give a FUCK why it failed. [15:36]
phf asciilifeform: so that new version replaces old patch? [15:36]
asciilifeform no. [15:36]
phf addition? [15:36]
asciilifeform it is a patch to mod6's press head. [15:36]
asciilifeform as requested. [15:36]
mircea_popescu phf pretty much yeah. [15:37]
asciilifeform i will no longer use the ml to submit patches. [15:37]
asciilifeform it is infuriatingly broken. [15:37]
phf asciilifeform: dropped your patch into the graph thingy, http://104.131.72.249/patches/ is doing right thing [15:37]
assbot trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1WV9qcg ) [15:37]
asciilifeform BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT [15:38]
asciilifeform and turdatron is a turd [15:38]
mod6 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390252 [15:38]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 22:21:25; mod6: and speaking of which, i'd also like to note that all of the sigs (seals) in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html are misnamed. http://dpaste.com/1KRXSBM.txt [15:38]
asciilifeform mod6: what prevents you from renaming them ? [15:38]
asciilifeform it won't alter the hash [15:38]
mod6 nothing, i did this. [15:38]
phf mircea_popescu: nodes are clickable [15:38]
asciilifeform ty mod6 [15:38]
mircea_popescu or 3 << asciilifeform 3 [15:38]
mod6 thats how i tested and built the stuff yesterday at phf's behest. [15:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which 3 [15:38]
mircea_popescu "which'll it be" [15:39]
mircea_popescu "three" [15:39]
mircea_popescu think of it as a poem. [15:39]
asciilifeform l0l [15:39]
phf i.e. http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring-fix [15:39]
assbot asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring-fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVdJ7n ) [15:39]
asciilifeform phf: very, very spiffy [15:39]
mircea_popescu phf very nice and good. [15:40]
mod6 asciilifeform: what was interesting on these ones is that not only idn't they contain *.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig -- they were: *.vpatch.asc [15:40]
mircea_popescu by now alf no longer really wants the book [15:40]
mircea_popescu because what he really wanted was ths svg (not the PDF!!!) of a book [15:40]
mircea_popescu well really the ast, but whatevs. [15:40]
asciilifeform l0lz wake up up when i can see the actual src in this thing [15:40]
mircea_popescu trivial bolt-on. [15:40]
asciilifeform but really wake me up when it knows how to eat patchballs from www or ftp etc [15:40]
asciilifeform because turdatron delenda est. [15:40]
mircea_popescu which leads me to the following : it's not JUST patches that should be "thematically grouped". [15:41]
mircea_popescu the whole fucking program is supposed to be written as a tree not as a fucking scroll [15:41]
asciilifeform i am SICK AND MOTHERFUCKING TIRED of 'your line is 1 char too long fuckyou' [15:41]
mircea_popescu which is what "functions" as originally hacked into fortran/basic were supposed to do [15:41]
asciilifeform aha^ [15:41]
mircea_popescu excepot from a braindamaged locus of "who could need more than one node level" [15:41]
asciilifeform dijkstra, 'structured programming' [15:41]
mircea_popescu aha [15:41]
mircea_popescu i had the silent intuition that there'd be a second gate in between the code and the "war of comments" outer gate discussed in thr logs last week. there is! this! [15:42]
mircea_popescu proper fucking structure. [15:43]
mircea_popescu truth is defended in this order by a) structure and b) text&context. [15:43]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391302 <<< dawg simmer down, it's not like jurov wrote it with the express purpose of aggravating you. [15:46]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 18:31:17; asciilifeform: BURNNN [15:46]
asciilifeform incidenally, [15:47]
asciilifeform mod6 et al: seems like my verstring patch works with ALL branches [15:47]
asciilifeform (shiva and ordinary) [15:47]
asciilifeform so the readme is a lie. [15:47]
mircea_popescu hm [15:47]
asciilifeform (verstring ~fix~ that is) [15:47]
mircea_popescu wouldn't it be best to test before documenting a feature ? :D [15:47]
asciilifeform no conflict. [15:47]
asciilifeform http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring-fix << as illustrated by phf [15:48]
assbot asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring-fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVdJ7n ) [15:48]
mircea_popescu phf can you also add the text on a futher link ? [code] ? [15:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: jurov is not to blame, the original design tip was actually mine [15:48]
asciilifeform but turdatron is not usable. [15:48]
mircea_popescu well as the great robbie williams one said, "at least now we know" [15:49]
asciilifeform it refused my latest patch with no logical reason i can discern [15:49]
mod6 hey uh... [15:49]
mod6 ok unpacked ur tarball. verified the sigs. [15:49]
mircea_popescu anyway, irc bot based submission is much better because bot can provide error response [15:49]
asciilifeform ^ [15:49]
mircea_popescu trinque and ftr that error message should be "fuck you alf" by default. [15:49]
mircea_popescu every time it runs into something it doesn't know what to say about [15:50]
asciilifeform l0ltr0n [15:50]
mod6 this patch just comes after the original [15:50]
mod6 --- a/bitcoin/src/serialize.h 3b61e200efe4b17a7f5384e13ab2a1a5e0a74fce0a097802d5e32bb5d74f88fa6e018f56c36ca9198d726a3a78168f87a6181d498cb7a388bc1f3adefa7cd93f [15:50]
mod6 +++ b/bitcoin/src/serialize.h ef93153b01fdf024a0ab2ce0f992ea9af50d3423baa147c395bba4cc90575bda0d832c0313428bbbc837c99d549c4ba787b94fad5b871870397a410ba59ea0e9 [15:50]
mod6 --- a/bitcoin/src/main.cpp 02ccc72e42939509fc180861db7ffec50563a84869f35671fcf720090f9782674edcc89c4174175691566fac7277f1ebe0f50253d1e4a995eb960f5b43cce2a3 [15:50]
mod6 +++ b/bitcoin/src/main.cpp 0ccb0c29c0a3217d57f9bc72d87b497e64116a9f79e69277408750ee3dc95738ce52a70afece7a1054314100d84f93f6525ab514b8abd8ce78ab8ebd50e599a2 [15:50]
asciilifeform mod6: does this break something ? [15:51]
mod6 --- a/bitcoin/src/main.cpp 02ccc72e42939509fc180861db7ffec50563a84869f35671fcf720090f9782674edcc89c4174175691566fac7277f1ebe0f50253d1e4a995eb960f5b43cce2a3 [15:51]
mod6 +++ b/bitcoin/src/main.cpp 0ccb0c29c0a3217d57f9bc72d87b497e64116a9f79e69277408750ee3dc95738ce52a70afece7a1054314100d84f93f6525ab514b8abd8ce78ab8ebd50e599a2 [15:51]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches/asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring.vpatch [15:51]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPCLdg ) [15:51]
mod6 damnit [15:51]
mircea_popescu http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring-fix << really should include a "touched signatures : " list [15:51]
asciilifeform it sits down happily in my tree [15:51]
assbot asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring-fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVdJ7n ) [15:51]
mod6 ignore those last two, this from serialize.h [15:52]
mod6 diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/serialize.h b/bitcoin/src/serialize.h [15:52]
mod6 --- a/bitcoin/src/serialize.h bc602bfbc512259fbb6c01f2c1633ff142966bf0752612e9a488cee8a95da7921b98abe646e2f7002243f1981939372e0b53948646398e40525ed442c377f449 [15:52]
mod6 +++ b/bitcoin/src/serialize.h 3b61e200efe4b17a7f5384e13ab2a1a5e0a74fce0a097802d5e32bb5d74f88fa6e018f56c36ca9198d726a3a78168f87a6181d498cb7a388bc1f3adefa7cd93f [15:52]
mod6 your patch should have antecedent: bc602bfbc512259fbb6c01f2c1633ff142966bf0752612e9a488cee8a95da7921b98abe646e2f7002243f1981939372e0b53948646398e40525ed442c377f449 [15:52]
phf mircea_popescu: touched signatures? [15:52]
mod6 not 3b61e200efe4b17a7f5384e13ab2a1a5e0a74fce0a097802d5e32bb5d74f88fa6e018f56c36ca9198d726a3a78168f87a6181d498cb7a388bc1f3adefa7cd93f [15:52]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] What the rebooted DeLorean can learn from Singer, Pagani, and Bitcoin. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/31/what-the-rebooted-delorean-can-learn-from-singer-pagani-and-bitcoin/ [15:52]
mircea_popescu phf yes, the list of all signatures seen to reach that leaf. [15:52]
asciilifeform mod6: from where comes this antecedent ? [15:52]
mod6 ok, anyway.. lemme take a look at this. [15:52]
mod6 so what i want to do [15:53]
mircea_popescu !rated phf [15:53]
assbot You rated user phf on 24-Jun-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Fixed our boxen!. [15:53]
punkman mircea_popescu: phf yes, the list of all signatures seen to reach that leaf. << that would just return "asciilifeform" :P [15:53]
mircea_popescu punkman no because it has genesis in there. [15:53]
mod6 start without this patch : asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatchasciilifeform-programmable-versionstring.vpatch, or th mod6_der_high_low_s.vpatch [15:54]
mircea_popescu ~all~ signatures seen to reach that leaf. [15:54]
asciilifeform aha, buncha people signed genesis [15:54]
asciilifeform ideally, everybody [15:54]
asciilifeform (in the orchestra, that is) [15:54]
mod6 then recode all this stuff. [15:54]
mod6 just imagine that they don't exist, now we need to reimplement those changes. [15:54]
asciilifeform waiwut [15:54]
mod6 should I do mine first? then you can make your changes. [15:54]
asciilifeform mod6: i am utterly confused now ? [15:55]
phf oh oh people signatures, yes [15:55]
mod6 i wanted a whole replacement for asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring.vpatch, not just the fix. [15:55]
mircea_popescu phf actually asciilifeform has a point : two signature lists are needed. complete and dependent. C = all signatures seen on any of the packages pressed ; D = the set of all signatures on which the current press depends - ie, without them you can't reach that leaf. [15:55]
mircea_popescu lemme formalize this. [15:55]
asciilifeform replacement?! whyt?!!! [15:55]
mod6 i'll fix all of this stuff. [15:55]
mod6 i'll be afk for a bit. [15:55]
mircea_popescu A signed by a b c d ; B off A, signed by a, c, d. D off A, signed by a, d. C off D signed by d. [15:56]
asciilifeform mod6: if you want to backport the patch and the afterpatch, etc. i will read and sign the result. [15:56]
asciilifeform but imho this is unnecessary sweat. [15:56]
mircea_popescu the first list for C is a b c d whereas the 2nd list for C is D. [15:56]
asciilifeform whole point of v is to avoid having to pretend that symphony was farted out in one perfect go. [15:56]
asciilifeform we can live with the history ! [15:56]
asciilifeform manually re-grinding everything every fucking time somebody finds a bug, is scutwork, and the time could be used to do something useful. [15:57]
mircea_popescu meanwhile the first list for B is a b c d whereas the 2nd list for B is (a) ; (c) ; (d) ie 3 lists. [15:57]
asciilifeform this is my official take on the question, which obviously nobody has to listen to. [15:57]
asciilifeform but there it is. [15:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'd say it's a degree question. if a hole found close to the surface, supuration is advised. if not, let blood carry the germs out. just like the body treats infection. [15:58]
mircea_popescu sure, people may maintain sparkly-clean trees for whatever reason anyway. but in general as to the "main" tree, best avoid both horns of the dilemma and tryt and sit in the middle. [15:59]
asciilifeform anyway if somebody insists on tamping versionstring and versionstring-fix into one path, i will read and sign it. [15:59]
asciilifeform later. [15:59]
asciilifeform but right now i'ma go to meatspace and won't be back until nightfall. [15:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58050 @ 0.00055672 = 32.3176 BTC [+] [15:59]
mircea_popescu enjoe. [16:00]
mircea_popescu phf does this make any sense whatsoever ? [16:00]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391311 << word eh. [16:02]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 18:34:13; mod6: and next time, let's do this sort of testing before i ship [16:02]
phf mircea_popescu: is that a list of names that correspond to .wot? i.e. each patch has (asciilifeform, mod6, etc.) and then there's a set of all wots for current press? [16:02]
mircea_popescu basically i seek to answer two questions, from a management point of view. [16:03]
mircea_popescu question 1 is : who are all the people who contributed to this ? [16:03]
mircea_popescu question 2 is : who are all the people on whose word i am implicitly depending by building this ? [16:03]
mircea_popescu so by building B in the example i am in the situation where i know a and c and d must ALL lie. [16:04]
mircea_popescu whereas by building D i am in the situation where i know it's enough for d to lie. [16:04]
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mircea_popescu (this approach probably makes the ancient "group is the enemy of intelligent life" / "only threat to wot model is agreement" etc painfully obvious - if a, c and d are a compact i'll just note them epsilon and pretend it's one thing) [16:05]
phf ah that gives you ability to press purely from wot knowledge, without reading the patch [16:06]
mircea_popescu quite. [16:06]
mircea_popescu must know who to thank and who to hunt down. that's what management is. [16:07]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390963 << look into clasp then, i'd just started digging into it when asciilifeform released shiva [16:09]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 11:10:04; jurov: that aside, there are completely different set of requirements, like, easy debugging. if lisp, then rather something with slime and good library bundled. [16:09]
ben_vulpes it nominally offers a lot over standard cl cffi, but i have not verified that myself. [16:09]
mircea_popescu it is also the fundamental instrument by which intelligent people are to assure their subsistence. because yea, naggum had a very good point with the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165 [16:09]
assbot Loper OS » The Wisdom of Erik Naggum ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQJGgA ) [16:09]
ben_vulpes has the unexpected advantage of making alf barf [16:09]
mircea_popescu but the problem per se wasn't the end he approached, but the other end. [16:09]
mircea_popescu and if we fix the other end, we actually fix this problem. [16:10]
mircea_popescu and even without the economic consideration, from a purely intellectual perspective. what is this inhuman, anti-intellectual "the bitcoin developers" bs ? we're not living in the village of pythagora over here, and we don't expect "anonymity" to stand in for sovereignity like five years old. gimme the motherfucking list. [16:11]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell pete_dushenski another translation challenger appears: http://trilema.com/2010/inca-o-pozitie-sexuala/ [16:12]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:12]
assbot Inca o pozitie sexuala on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQKamU ) [16:12]
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asciilifeform i came back to console because i realized that mircea_popescu was making a VITAL point that is in danger of being glossed over [16:13]
asciilifeform does anyone recall how my original vtron only showed linear flow ? [16:13]
* ben_vulpes nods [16:13]
asciilifeform and why i thought this to be sufficient ? [16:13]
* ben_vulpes does not nod [16:14]
asciilifeform it is because, in my original concept, the main knob that is to be twiddled by the operator is not the press head, [16:14]
mircea_popescu o wb alfie [16:14]
asciilifeform BUT THE WOT [16:14]
asciilifeform the wot! [16:14]
asciilifeform you vary the vot. [16:14]
asciilifeform wot [16:14]
mircea_popescu oh god, the wot! [16:14]
ben_vulpes wot wot [16:14]
ben_vulpes my wot, mon trezor! [16:14]
mircea_popescu who said "the iron! my god, the iron!" [16:14]
asciilifeform vtron, in primary mode of operation, is to climb the tree, as high as it can on each branch, operating using the current wotset [16:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform still, this is the "orig" for that. [16:15]
ben_vulpes reheheally? [16:15]
asciilifeform this automagically gives you 'mod6 & ben_vulpes release', or 'what mircea_popescu is willing to use', or ' asciilifeform's bleeding razor' [16:15]
ben_vulpes because i want to press "shiva" into a tree that doesn't have, say, malleus_mikehearnificarum [16:15]
asciilifeform you just use different wotsets. [16:15]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: that's when you bring out the press depth knob. OR alternatively sign the ones you want! and then press using a wot that contains only ben_vulpes [16:15]
mircea_popescu anyway, notice the fractal beauty of the world : list 1 is really "the wot" ; list 2 is necessarily the lordship list. and by its very nature ... you can or can not chose various different lordships depending on what it is you're trying to do. [16:16]
asciilifeform see, there are multiple ways to go about it [16:16]
mircea_popescu EXACTLY like how it worked back whne it worked. [16:16]
asciilifeform aha. mircea_popescu has it. [16:16]
mircea_popescu it's this sort of "doesn't repeat but rhymes" beauty that makes me thing we're really singing spheres music here. [16:16]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: clasp is one of those 'lisps without eval' isnnit. [16:18]
asciilifeform there are good examples of this kind of thing, from the past, see 'chicken' and 'stalin' [16:19]
asciilifeform but it is pretty much the opposite of what we want here. [16:19]
asciilifeform http://community.schemewiki.org/?Stalin [16:19]
assbot Stalin [16:19]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i believe clasp is a standards-compliant commonlisp [16:20]
ben_vulpes if you have information to the contrary... [16:20]
asciilifeform claims to 'compile to cpp' doesn't it ? [16:20]
ben_vulpes nooo, llvm bytecode. [16:21]
ben_vulpes has 'really great cpp interop' [16:21]
mircea_popescu lol this is a promising thread. [16:21]
* ben_vulpes can hear the retching from here [16:21]
phf asciilifeform: original conception requires "sufficiently smart patch" then, unless i'm missing something [16:22]
asciilifeform phf: it does not. worked as shown. [16:22]
asciilifeform phf: see my original vtron. [16:22]
phf oh, if you remove joe from wot, v finds an alternative path [16:23]
asciilifeform aha [16:24]
asciilifeform the highest climb that has no joe. [16:24]
asciilifeform to specified level. [16:24]
adlai ben_vulpes: "standards-compliant" lol. [16:25]
adlai if "standards" is plural, it's already noncompliant [16:25]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391028 << i wonder what 'not making the cut' looks like these days. not willing to burn ones youth on the pyre of tenure-track whoring? [16:25]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 15:24:32; asciilifeform: y suffered from delusions of physics - he was 'raised for physics' by his father, but didn't make the cut, and never lived it down [16:25]
asciilifeform find clasp-master/src -name '*' | xargs wc -l [16:25]
asciilifeform 1169705 [16:25]
asciilifeform go, read. [16:25]
asciilifeform happy shithuntin'. [16:25]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: this is for a motherfucking crystalspace project [16:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: mno. in yudkowsky's case, it meant being kicked out of high school. [16:26]
ben_vulpes adlai: i don't know shit, frere, i just drag in dead birds for the adults to dispose of. [16:26]
mircea_popescu if "standards" is plural, it's already noncompliant <<< for the record, the reason the enemy uses the plural there isn't that the enemy is this stupid, but that it believes in patchwork. ie, standards : one for this, one for that, together they make up a complete thing. [16:26]
mircea_popescu sort of freehand wot if you will [16:26]
phf clasp is very much anti-ba, there's no question about it, pulls a lot of projects together, of questionable pedigree [16:26]
adlai "anti-ba"!? [16:27]
asciilifeform including llvm [16:27]
adlai clasp is an answer to a specific problem which nobody here has... it's equally anti-pythagoras [16:27]
asciilifeform (the 'llvm is satanic and must die' thing is not as clear-cut as i would like, it is actually MORE readable and hackable than gcc. but i'm allergic, i confess.) [16:27]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you know what "not making the cut" is wqith a woman ? even if you're a saudi prince and your daddy buys her for you ; even if you're an afghan monkey and she deeply believes she has to. there's a point where you make the cut or don't, and that's what it is. [16:27]
mircea_popescu physics is a well known whore. behaves the exact same way. [16:27]
mircea_popescu do her insides answer to you or don't they. [16:28]
asciilifeform ^^ [16:29]
adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391465 << afaik, clasp will be superior to other lisps only if the bulk of your friction is at the interface itself. specifically, it does NOT have the same level of slime support you'd find in the mature lisp (sbcl and ccl) [16:29]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 19:07:51; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390963 << look into clasp then, i'd just started digging into it when asciilifeform released shiva [16:29]
asciilifeform adlai: and here i picked a lisp with 0 slime support [16:29]
adlai "lisp" [16:29]
phf adlai: clasp is a good fit for tendriling trb, if i had more time, i'd use it in a similar way to shiva. but then i'm already building trb on llvm/clang, etc. it is anti-ba though because of pedigree and ownership problem. can use it, if you have resources to read through 5 or so 100k loc projects [16:30]
ben_vulpes FIGHT [16:30]
asciilifeform 'scheme is the good half of cl' [16:30]
mircea_popescu phf 12 100k loc projects, turns out. [16:30]
mircea_popescu and i fear nobody does nor could anyone have such resources. [16:30]
adlai modern CL (as opposed to the ANSI doorstop) is a tool that evolved from a standard. r5rs is a standard. tinyscheme is a tool. etc etc... vita brevis, but there are at least a couple usable artes [16:31]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391553 << hilariously, this is part of what i do for a living now. [16:32]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 19:29:40; mircea_popescu: and i fear nobody does nor could anyone have such resources. [16:32]
asciilifeform mega-bezzlatron ~does~ have resources. [16:32]
mircea_popescu to no significant eventual effect. [16:32]
asciilifeform can't disagree! [16:32]
mircea_popescu so then ... it doesn't. [16:32]
asciilifeform (pretty sure it all stokes the furnace at the end of the day) [16:32]
asciilifeform hey, having resources and having the brains to not stoke the furnace with'em are different things [16:33]
mircea_popescu as the linecount you're digesting increases you don't need more people. you need smarter ones. it's not like if you need one brick carried you hire one lout and ifg you need 10000 you hire 10000. it's like if you want 1kg carried you can use a dog, and if you need 10 tons you gotta learn to speak whale now. [16:33]
asciilifeform well yes [16:33]
asciilifeform there are no louts there, reading code. [16:33]
asciilifeform just me. [16:33]
mircea_popescu well so then. i don't want 10x as many people that can jump 1m. i want people who can jump 10m now. [16:33]
mircea_popescu wut ? [16:33]
asciilifeform 10 tons. [16:33]
adlai phf: also, afaict, clasp is designed for manipulating existing C++ libraries with your own tendrils, rather than tendriling an existing turdatron. tinyscheme is designed for the latter. [16:33]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'm the 'whale' that moves the 10 tonnes, there. [16:35]
asciilifeform (i don't work at '10,000 dogs' shops, as a matter of principle) [16:35]
mircea_popescu you know, if human ability were actually infinite, management wouldn't exist. [16:35]
asciilifeform it isn't infinite, but varies more than dog/whale. [16:35]
mircea_popescu definitely. [16:36]
asciilifeform more like whale/euglena. [16:36]
mircea_popescu point remains, resource needs don't scale well in this type of problem. [16:36]
asciilifeform it scales pretty well, if tmsr were an actual empire it could have a 100% mod6 and a 100% asciilifeform et al [16:37]
asciilifeform instead of ~5-10% [16:37]
asciilifeform granted this is not 10,000 dogs. [16:37]
asciilifeform but nobody ~needs~ 10,000 dogs. [16:37]
phf adlai: i don't see the difference. both require you to annotate your classes/method/data somehow. clasp requires less annotation with larger impact then tinyscheme, e.g. it knows about c++ and can do some advanced ffi-ing [16:38]
asciilifeform phf: cpp does enough munging at compile time that this whole concept is disastrously meaningless [16:38]
mircea_popescu ffi, fast fourier interfacing ? [16:38]
asciilifeform foreign function interface [16:39]
mircea_popescu o hey. [16:39]
asciilifeform phf: you can't repl straight into cpp, and trying is guaranteed to bring you to grief [16:39]
phf asciilifeform: that's what clasp does [16:39]
asciilifeform embeds a cpp ~interpreter~ ? [16:39]
asciilifeform even if this were so, this breaks the language semantics. [16:39]
asciilifeform think about it. [16:39]
adlai while you may want missile guidance on board the missile, you might not want the chip fab on board as well [16:39]
asciilifeform a cpp is that is interpreted, and where magic that normally happens during compilation can happen MORE THAN ONCE, and AT RUNTIME, is guaranteed semantic-distinct from ordinary cpp. [16:40]
asciilifeform cpp is not merely braindamaged, it is a roadkill that has sat in the sun for all of july [16:40]
asciilifeform stop trying to attach life support to it. [16:40]
asciilifeform (and this is pointedly not the intent of shiva.) [16:41]
adlai my understanding is that nobody here wants to make bitcoind, the minimal concrete-sealed weaponized Bitcoin-that-Exists, able to compile a new version of itself [16:41]
mircea_popescu god help us. [16:41]
asciilifeform adlai: me. [16:41]
mircea_popescu what ? [16:41]
asciilifeform obviously not with the cpp garbage. [16:42]
asciilifeform but the mythical os. [16:42]
mircea_popescu you mean bitcoin-os [16:42]
mircea_popescu oh [16:42]
asciilifeform aha. [16:42]
mircea_popescu well it'd pretty damned well be able to, else how is it an os [16:42]
adlai asciilifeform: isn't shiva supposed to be an optimal point BETWEEN sentient-AGI-bitcoinOS and jsonrpc on port 8332? [16:42]
asciilifeform i can't speak for others, but 'i come to bury ' the garbage, not to praise it.' [16:42]
phf asciilifeform: while the goals are different, the mechanism is the same. you annotate classes, methods and get stable refs in your lisp instance, which shares heap with the running c++ process. [16:42]
adlai rather than some continually-shifting goalpost that asymptotically approaches whatever sentience seems least broken [16:43]
mircea_popescu phf but these adnotations are necessarily not translateable. [16:43]
asciilifeform phf: annotate laboriously, by hand, and painfully aware of the impedance mismatches [16:43]
asciilifeform rather than automatic claptrap. [16:43]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391045 << that said, he has the best twitter ever: https://twitter.com/peterthiel [16:43]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 15:28:44; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because thiel got money and no self respect. [16:43]
assbot Peter Thiel (@peterthiel) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVls5k ) [16:43]
mircea_popescu adlai no, shiva isn't supposed to be "an optimal point". it is supposed to be a CORRECT replacement of a currently broken implementation. [16:43]
mircea_popescu and yes, both json and rpc are broken by design [16:44]
asciilifeform phf: know the stories where, in the Dark Future of Hello Kitty, man's neurons are replaced one by one with robotic ones, and he doesn't notice ? [16:44]
asciilifeform it is my intention to do this to trb. [16:44]
adlai lemme put it another way... somewhere in the ANSI spec are probably one, two, or even three ~hundred~ symbols which the weaponized bitcoind-os does not need in its guts. define-setf-expander? define-method-combination? where do you draw the line? [16:44]
mircea_popescu too soon. [16:44]
asciilifeform adlai: ergo why i did not pick cl [16:44]
adlai exactly. [16:44]
adlai ergo why the clasp horse is also unnecessary to continue flogging. [16:45]
asciilifeform also i laugh when folks take the spew of academitard 'compiler research' claptrap and try to actually use [16:45]
mircea_popescu well the other one bated him. [16:45]
asciilifeform sorta like going to a toy store to buy power tools [16:45]
asciilifeform 'hey this drill whirrs, more loudly even' [16:46]
asciilifeform let's use. [16:46]
mircea_popescu this log is moving so fast i'm actually getting contiguity issues trying to follow. [16:46]
adlai again, not trying to perscribe what's right; obviously asciilifeform understands what he's trying to do infinitely better than i can; but... i think the line is somewhere between embedding an interpreter for a subset of r5rs, and embedding a ~compiler~ [16:46]
asciilifeform fortunately for mircea_popescu , now i go and pet pet and wander around. [16:46]
* asciilifeform bbl [16:46]
phf clasp is not "compiler research", is designed to scratch itch of a single person, for doing computational chemistry [16:46]
adlai happy wanderings asciilifeform [16:46]
mircea_popescu adlai there's no option to embedding a compiler in an os. [16:47]
adlai mircea_popescu: in these early days, when Bitcoin does not yet fully Exist, it seems as though everything is an option. the full shiva vision, as i understand it from recent logs, opens the door to doing exactly that, if some energetic idiot decides it's a good idea [16:48]
mircea_popescu looky : currently we have a script that pulls dependencies, checks them, and builds. [16:49]
mircea_popescu the reason alf wants a cd is because what he really wants is A BOOT CD. [16:49]
adlai i don't think it's a good idea and i'm trying to dispel the notion for others who may. i'm a little surprised at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391599 and probably misunderstood alf. [16:49]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 19:40:36; asciilifeform: adlai: me. [16:49]
mircea_popescu nor is this eventual situation avoidable at all. [16:49]
* adlai was "it's"ing about "doing exactly that", not about "BOOT CD" [16:49]
* adlai doesn't want a CD because 4/5ths of his hardware doesn't know what CDs are... but this is back to bedrock issues [16:50]
mircea_popescu i think maybe you've formed a partial idea of what's being discussed through the age old process of having read a partial set of what's been said. [16:50]
mircea_popescu but in any case, compiling bitcoin in bitcoin is not either a goal or liable to be implemented before actually having a bitcoin-fs say. [16:51]
* adlai keeps reading, both logs and seals, and maybe someday will have another partial idea [16:51]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, the fact that bitcoin-os is the unavoidable end of this entire process requires things be thought out with a view to that fact. [16:51]
adlai well patches, not seals. the latter aren't particularly stimulating reading material per se [16:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105484 @ 0.0005514 = 58.1639 BTC [-] [16:53]
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mod6 ok [16:54]
mod6 so... i've integrated asciilifeform's fix into a new patch that will replace the old one: http://dpaste.com/2KCXN8A.txt [16:55]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQ2N5 ) [16:55]
mod6 I'm going to build with this and live test it before I submit to the mailing list. [16:55]
mod6 bbs. [16:55]
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adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391635 << this thread is also further evidence that 'satoshi' was/included a plumber rather than academic or architect [16:59]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 19:45:44; phf: clasp is not "compiler research", is designed to scratch itch of a single person, for doing computational chemistry [16:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92692 @ 0.00055672 = 51.6035 BTC [+] [16:59]
phf the thread mostly reminded me of http://slaviccenter.com/languageschool/images/10104.jpg [16:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQDOE ) [17:00]
phf so i added inline patch display to my patch display displayer instead http://104.131.72.249/patches/mod6_fix_dumpblock_params [17:00]
assbot mod6_fix_dumpblock_params ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQHOC ) [17:00]
adlai phf: this web-facing thing is part of your CL vtron? [17:00]
phf adlai: yes [17:02]
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* adlai wonders at the boundedness of CL vtrons... probably nonexistent [17:03]
adlai in the same sense as "eleven rabbis, twelve opinions" [17:04]
ben_vulpes boundedness? [17:04]
adlai boundedness [of implementation diversity] [17:05]
adlai how many roads must a man walk down before he stops taking the less-trod fork [17:05]
ben_vulpes how many rickety fucking buckets of others' design must a man endure before he gets the fuck out and walks on his own feet is the question i'm endeavoring to resolve for myself [17:07]
ben_vulpes entirely unrelatedly, can anyone corroborate the story of the russians who burned a shitton of usd on camera and got the then-fed to credit some domestic account or other? [17:11]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391110 << i did, not saying that it's not lying through its teeth though: http://imgur.com/Y1tGvZC [17:15]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 15:52:04; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390875 << i'd be surprised if you actually can ever find this. [17:15]
assbot Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQSFhP ) [17:15]
mod6 ben_vulpes: how we lookin' bud? [17:17]
mod6 im gonna test this revised patch, if works, send it, then get that SoBA in ship-shape. [17:18]
ben_vulpes did you get a chance to repro the issue i ran into with asciilifeform's shiva patches? [17:18]
mod6 hmm. [17:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00055672 = 17.7037 BTC [+] [17:19]
ben_vulpes the 'rebaked' ones. [17:19]
mod6 i might need a reminder. i did go through a bunch of your comments though. [17:19]
ben_vulpes !s bug for you [17:19]
assbot 17 results for 'bug for you' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bug+for+you [17:19]
mod6 oh yeah. [17:19]
mod6 yeah, no clue what you did there. [17:19]
mod6 i was able to press all of that out just fine. [17:19]
ben_vulpes the rebaked ones? [17:20]
mod6 just had to stick his stuff into patches and .seals. but in all honesty, im not even sure if the patches & seals I'm using are what is indended at this point. [17:20]
mod6 lets not worry about that for now. that thing is in its infancy. [17:20]
ben_vulpes so if i press those individually, in order, they work. but if i press the last patch, i believe that it fails to find its antecedents. [17:21]
mod6 i kinda have to turn a deaf ear to a lot of this stuff until the new month starts, and even then, i gotta keep my eye on the prize - dispite any other problems on the periphery. [17:21]
mod6 so ben_vulpes, understand that there is like a jumble of different things he submitted, and if the wrong ones are incorporated, it might puke. [17:22]
mod6 like i said, lets just hold off on that. [17:22]
mod6 it's not hurting anyone, and its not going in the release. [17:22]
ben_vulpes okeee [17:22]
mod6 i can't even take the time to jump down that rabbit hole right now. [17:22]
mod6 make sense? [17:22]
ben_vulpes yeah boss [17:22]
mod6 ahh, and then there is this now -- when compiling with alf's fix incorporated: [17:23]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/1AVK5ZP.txt [17:24]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQTW8K ) [17:24]
mod6 so that's not the only thing that needed to change. [17:24]
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phf huh so with original v design, mod6 could sign all the patches that are deemed releasable, and then all you need is mod6.asc in your wot and trb will press [17:29]
phf perhaps then trb instructions should be "download mod6.asc into ~/.wot" which is a trust starting point [17:31]
phf where's mirrors can contain any number of patches [17:33]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391245 << lines 64 and 65 of v.pl. perhaps i can't read perl? [17:33]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 17:53:21; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" .
"otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings << where do you see this? this is not a thing. that would fail to compile/pass-interpreter-smell-test.
[17:33]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391246 << oh this is superb [17:35]
mod6 lemme take a look. [17:35]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 17:53:34; phf: mircea_popescu: hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? << like http://104.131.72.249/patches/? (is in no way bulletproof, so i expect it to be down by the time i come back from breakfast) [17:35]
mod6 what version are you looking at? perhaps my 64 & 65 are different? [17:35]
mod6 oh oh [17:36]
mod6 im retard [17:36]
mod6 one sec. [17:36]
mod6 my $import = "gpg --homedir $tdir --logger-fd 1 --keyid-format=long " . [17:37]
mod6 "--import $wdir/$pubkey 2> /dev/null"; [17:37]
mod6 these right ^ [17:37]
ben_vulpes yessir [17:37]
mod6 ok so whats going on there is that to preserve 80 cols, i create a command spanning two lines [17:37]
mod6 "command part A" . "command part B" and set that equal to $import [17:38]
ben_vulpes so the '.' is both a line-break escape and string concatenation? [17:38]
mod6 then in the next line i do this: [17:38]
mod6 my $res = `$import`; [17:38]
mod6 and execute $import and set the result (output) of the command to $res [17:38]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> so the '.' is both a line-break escape and string concatenation? << its not a line break. its just a string concatenation. [17:38]
ben_vulpes well there is a line break between those two strings [17:39]
mod6 notice how there is a space after '=long ' [17:39]
ben_vulpes sure [17:39]
mod6 yup yup, i put a 0x0a in there just to preseve 80 cols. but perl deoesn't care nor does it add a '
' to the command string
[17:39]
ben_vulpes that's what i thought [17:40]
mod6 ok. [17:40]
ben_vulpes thanks for confirming mod6 [17:40]
mod6 np [17:40]
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mod6 some of you out there who are following along will be like, "yeah, what about line 426, or 484 then!! eh!?" [17:42]
mod6 well, i missed a few, need to clean those up :P [17:42]
jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391302 lemme see. your beloved gmail marked README as application/octet-stream [17:42]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 18:31:17; asciilifeform: BURNNN [17:42]
jurov which caused turdatron to skip it while searching for clearsigned part [17:42]
punkman everything I've sent has been octet-stream, I think [17:42]
jurov punkman what outgoing address/alias do you use? [17:43]
jurov did you ever sent anything to ml? [17:44]
punkman pub@extemporized.com , I manually set octet-stream for all my attachments, but it's possible the crappy email-sender I use overrode it for the email body [17:44]
jurov ah i see. but you send the clearsigned part as Content-Type: text/plain [17:45]
punkman ah, ok then [17:45]
jurov (example: [BTC-dev] Some test patches and my V implementation) [17:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116050 @ 0.00055698 = 64.6375 BTC [+] {3} [17:47]
mod6 asciilifeform: <+mod6> so... i've integrated asciilifeform's fix into a new patch that will replace the old one: http://dpaste.com/2KCXN8A.txt << <+mod6> ahh, and then there is this now -- when compiling with alf's fix incorporated: <+mod6> http://dpaste.com/1AVK5ZP.txt << any thoughts on how to fix0r this? [17:48]
punkman web-based turdatron woulda saved you a lot of debug time :/ [17:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQ2N5 ) [17:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQTW8K ) [17:48]
mod6 meanwhile, im gonna work on getting this SoBA completed. :] [17:49]
jurov asciilifeform: can't you just get rid of gmail? or it's the same situation as you and usg? [17:49]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [17:49]
felipelalli deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw/Bd3Qg7aW [17:49]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQXFTR ) [17:49]
deedbot- rejected: 1 [17:49]
felipelalli !gettrust assbot felipelalli [17:51]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user felipelalli: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=felipelalli | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/felipelalli/ [17:51]
jurov punkman you're welcome to contribute a script that checks web submission (upload form for clearsigned text + any number of "attachments") and turns it into email [17:51]
felipelalli any ideas why my doc was rejected? [17:52]
jurov to mirror turdatron, only clearsigned text is checked if it's someone known to gpg, anything other is passed unchanged [17:52]
adlai deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3HV3FZC.txt [17:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQY4Wa ) [17:53]
deedbot- rejected: 1 [17:53]
adlai felipelalli: nope, but the symptom is reproducible! [17:53]
jurov felipelalli: it's expired [17:53]
felipelalli jurov, and how can I workaround this? Or this is out of my control? :) [17:54]
felipelalli my GPG key is expired you mean? [17:54]
jurov if you want you can send it to btc-dev, it ignores key expirations [17:54]
jurov yes your gpg key [17:54]
adlai what is expired? i was able to load it without any error about this [17:54]
* adlai sees: pub rsa4096/ED5CDE14 2013-05-02 [expires: 2018-12-06] [17:55]
jurov felipelalli: did you prolong it recently? [17:55]
felipelalli yes. [17:55]
felipelalli It has expired in my birthday (2015-12-06) [17:56]
jurov well, then both mine and deedbot-'s keyring wasn't updated with your update [17:56]
felipelalli I have uploaded to MIT. [17:56]
jurov you must wait for the botmaster (trinque afaik) to fix it [17:56]
jurov yes you uploaded, that part is fine, but bot hasn't downloaded it [17:56]
adlai assuming or suggesting that people use automated key upgrade mechanisms is... somewhere between negligent and criminal. at least, criminally negligent. [17:57]
felipelalli jurov, nice! Thank you. [17:57]
adlai felipelalli: maybe try another http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=add-key [17:57]
assbot 30 results for 'add-key' - #bitcoin-assets search [17:57]
jurov oh yes! try resubmitting your pubkey to deedbot. [17:58]
felipelalli deedbot-: add-key http://dpaste.com/0019PDB.txt [17:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQYRXa ) [17:59]
adlai ... ( http://bit.ly/1wBYQL8 ) [17:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQYWdz ) [17:59]
* ben_vulpes chuckles [18:00]
felipelalli deedbot- gives some feedback after the add-key? [18:01]
adlai ben_vulpes: archive.is the best -ception [18:01]
felipelalli It should say something like "imported: FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9" - but it didn't. [18:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21832 @ 0.0005514 = 12.0382 BTC [-] {2} [18:16]
jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390983 this is already done, turdatron links raw version of all email parts (check for yourself) [18:20]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 14:42:22; mircea_popescu: just, if you want to add a patch, should be able to dump it as dpaste also. [18:20]
jurov so you can pass clearsigned text directly to deedbot like: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-01-2016#1359305 [18:21]
assbot Logged on 02-01-2016 21:57:55; jurov: deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160102/attachment_0451ec0ba3062d4608318f96270dd7c9f65e42e1.txt [18:21]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: if i understand the shiva rebake correctly, applying tinyscheme_genesis_vpatch, then tinyscheme_crud_snip, then tinyscheme_repl_fix_fixed bangs the tree into the correct shape? [18:21]
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jurov trinque: does deedbot allow submissions with detached signatures? like "deedbot- " [18:24]
punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Cd9wGHtr0 [18:26]
assbot Egyptian Lover - I Need A Freak - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QR2LiJ ) [18:26]
jurov thay would be much cleaner solution that trying to invent some "container" for patches to prevent whitespace/newline munging [18:29]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Rand Paul will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee - http://bitbet.us/bet/1208/rand-paul-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/#b14 [18:30]
* ascii_rear (~asciilife@pool-108-31-64-194.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:30]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_rear [18:31]
* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [18:32]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_rear [18:32]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_rear [18:32]
ascii_rear http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391753 << spam forced me into the wagen [18:32]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 20:48:02; jurov: asciilifeform: can't you just get rid of gmail? or it's the same situation as you and usg? [18:33]
ascii_rear i can't use mp's filter algo [18:33]
ascii_rear gotta be able to receive from not-seen-before addrs [18:33]
ascii_rear but also don't have 2hrs/day to hand-sift [18:34]
ascii_rear i have a nongmail box but it is rapidly drowning under deluge [18:35]
phf ascii_rear: you tried fastmail? [18:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34371 @ 0.0005517 = 18.9625 BTC [+] [18:35]
* ascii_rear has quit (Read error: No route to host) [18:37]
phf well, then [18:37]
mircea_popescu omfg no fucking wai. [18:37]
* mircea_popescu goes back to log reading the gap [18:38]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_rear [18:39]
-assbot- Insufficient rights, mircea_popescu, !up yourself on PM first. [18:39]
mircea_popescu http://104.131.72.249/patches/mod6_fix_dumpblock_params << this is rapidly becoming very sweet. mind adding the select javascript too ? :D [18:40]
assbot mod6_fix_dumpblock_params ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQHOC ) [18:40]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [18:40]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_rear [18:41]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_rear [18:41]
trinque jurov │ trinque: does deedbot allow submissions with detached signatures? like "deedbot- " << it does not, but is not rocket surgery to add. seems useful for posting scripts [18:41]
ascii_rear and its gangrene stinks!! [18:41]
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trinque !up felipelalli [18:41]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [18:41]
phf kek, Selfimportant html ButtSecks header [18:42]
ascii_rear waiwut [18:42]
felipelalli kakobrekla, do you have an idea why deedbot- didn't accept my renewed key? thank you. [18:43]
mircea_popescu phf http://trilema.com/2015/that-spiffy-selection-thing/ [18:44]
assbot That spiffy selection thing. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1jZbjX6 ) [18:44]
kakobrekla felipelalli ask trinque, i dont run deedbot- [18:44]
trinque felipelalli: I thought you were talking about assbot [18:44]
ascii_rear maybe we will learn now why it does nothing on my wwwtrons [18:44]
mircea_popescu srsly. [18:45]
ascii_rear bbl [18:45]
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ben_vulpes aha i begin to see the wisdom of pressing all reachable leaves now [18:46]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391704 << yeah that's the idea, but we specifically dun want to say "trust x thing" in the imperative. [18:47]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 20:28:00; phf: huh so with original v design, mod6 could sign all the patches that are deemed releasable, and then all you need is mod6.asc in your wot and trb will press [18:47]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, a large chunk of what mod6 is doing is running through the ever-expanding ball of patches and making a curated set. [18:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40211 @ 0.00055583 = 22.3505 BTC [+] {2} [18:48]
jurov i'm willing to bet than when there will be turdatron www upload form, asciilifeform will use the most broken browser in existence to try to upload the files [18:48]
punkman lol [18:49]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391737 <<< aaaahahahaha [18:49]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 20:41:16; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391302 lemme see. your beloved gmail marked README as application/octet-stream [18:49]
jurov like he does with the email client [18:49]
mircea_popescu hey alf, how about you move out of the us ? hm ? HM ? [18:49]
mircea_popescu jurov there is some merit to that lol. [18:49]
mircea_popescu da fuck, you must be the only one here using gmail. [18:50]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391760 << if your sig expired it may be that deedbot will still see the expired one until it updates. if it ever does. [18:51]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 20:51:15; felipelalli: any ideas why my doc was rejected? [18:51]
mircea_popescu really, expiring signatures is a stupid idea. [18:51]
mircea_popescu you want to expire a sig, do it by hand. [18:52]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391794 << yeah but i meant, before it goes in, not after. after yes it does, and it's very nice. [18:53]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 21:19:02; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390983 this is already done, turdatron links raw version of all email parts (check for yourself) [18:53]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391802 << thinking about it i think you';re right actually. [18:54]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 21:27:52; jurov: thay would be much cleaner solution that trying to invent some "container" for patches to prevent whitespace/newline munging [18:54]
punkman gpg already has dpastable ascii containers [18:57]
jurov but they are completely unreadable [18:57]
mircea_popescu we're going the other way : taking gpg out, not putting more of it in. [18:57]
ben_vulpes anyways, mod6 you gotta upgrade v.pl to press *all* reachable leaves. that's the problem i'm running into with asciilifeform's recent shiva rebake [18:57]
jurov *human-unreadable [18:58]
mod6 all reachable leaves [18:58]
mod6 it does [18:58]
ben_vulpes o.O [18:59]
* ben_vulpes digs [18:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79696 @ 0.00055644 = 44.346 BTC [+] {5} [19:00]
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phf put everything in tar containers? [19:02]
phf fwiw stock selection magic doesn't work out of the box on safari [19:03]
phf nor firefox [19:03]
phf mircea_popescu: http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud does selection work here for you? [19:06]
assbot asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud ... ( http://bit.ly/1QR7NvC ) [19:06]
ben_vulpes can someone confirm that it's just as possible to malleate a transaction low->high s as it is to malleate it high->low ? [19:07]
mircea_popescu nope [19:10]
mircea_popescu phf does the archive.is implementation work for yo u ? [19:10]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: meaning that transactions can only be malleated from high->low order? [19:10]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes in what sense "just as possible" [19:10]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nope was @phf's question [19:11]
ben_vulpes oh. [19:11]
ben_vulpes in that it's possible to malleate in either direction. ease i suppose doesn't figure into the question. [19:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55084 @ 0.00055834 = 30.7556 BTC [+] {2} [19:12]
mircea_popescu what's your idea of possible ? [19:13]
mircea_popescu "is it as possible to turn a grade from 50% to 75% as it is to turn it from 75% to 50%" ? [19:13]
mircea_popescu in what sense ? paper will carry anything. the social practice of throwing curves won't. etc. [19:13]
ben_vulpes if you have access to the gradebook... [19:13]
mircea_popescu if you mine yourself, on your own coin, it is possible to do anything. [19:14]
ben_vulpes so a decomposition then [19:14]
ben_vulpes i create a transaction with a low s value. someone listening to broadcast transactions can rewrite my tx to have a high s value. [19:14]
ben_vulpes correct? [19:14]
ben_vulpes (create and broadcast) [19:14]
mircea_popescu numerically, there is no way to distinguish between a transaction that was signed high and a transaction that was signed low and malleated to high [19:15]
mircea_popescu juist like numerically there is no way to distinguish between a transaction that was signed low and one that was signed high and malleated to low. [19:15]
ben_vulpes great, i follow. [19:15]
mircea_popescu mostly because the conversion consists of substracting from a constant [19:15]
ben_vulpes now, are miners not mining transactions signed low? [19:16]
mircea_popescu the miners are mining low-s as is and malleating all high-s and mining them as low-s [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15575 @ 0.00056082 = 8.7348 BTC [+] {2} [19:17]
ben_vulpes okay. [19:17]
mircea_popescu the benefit of all this pile of legwork is deeply unclear, [19:17]
mircea_popescu but the derps ran off with progress and here we are. [19:17]
ben_vulpes now were b,tmsr~ to run its own pool mining only high-s transactions, would clients in the wild reject those blocks? [19:17]
mircea_popescu i originally thought so but research in here shows that no, it's never checked. [19:17]
mircea_popescu feel free to read it yourself, pointer to code was in log [19:18]
ben_vulpes sure, i'm mostly confirming my own recollection. [19:18]
mircea_popescu right. [19:18]
ben_vulpes but digging as far down into the roots of my conclusions as makes sense to dispel ambiguity [19:18]
ben_vulpes uh next [19:19]
ben_vulpes how did you come to the conclusion that it was miners doing the malleation, and not nobodies malleating and rebroadcasting? [19:19]
mircea_popescu cui prodest. [19:19]
ben_vulpes > deeply unclear [19:20]
mircea_popescu cui prodest scelus is fecit, he who benefits from misdeed did it. [19:20]
ben_vulpes could just as easily be a USG FUD campaign. [19:20]
ben_vulpes how do the miners benefit though. [19:20]
mircea_popescu tx fee [19:21]
ben_vulpes it is greater on malleated transactions?! but but [19:21]
ben_vulpes this'd invalidate the signature. [19:21]
ben_vulpes i'm sure that i misunderstand. [19:21]
mircea_popescu if you include the tx, you get the fee. if you don't include it, for any reason, you don't get the fee. [19:22]
mircea_popescu since they agreed to only include low-s for whatever random reason / concern trolling / misinformed desire to be nice and good, they're stuck now. [19:22]
mircea_popescu note the very usg-tard approach to things : it IS true that ambiguous signatures are bad ; it is DEEPLY UNTRUE that we can counter this by AGREEING among ourselves "not to do it". [19:23]
mircea_popescu statutory solutions to bad design, a "western world" specialty. [19:23]
ben_vulpes but there's no actual reason why they couldn't mine high-s transactions, adherence to party line aside. [19:23]
mircea_popescu there is no real reason to do anything they do anyway [19:24]
mircea_popescu adherence to shared delusion aside. [19:24]
mod6 http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000203.html [19:27]
assbot [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRacXn ) [19:27]
mircea_popescu o hey. [19:27]
mircea_popescu ``heathen command'' << am i the only one seeing a weird set of unmatching quotes here ? [19:29]
mircea_popescu ` vs ' [19:29]
ben_vulpes that's how mod6 has always quoted things... [19:29]
BingoBoingo in that it's possible to malleate in either direction. ease i suppose doesn't figure into the question. << Someone malleating to high-s is why power derps started malleating to low-s [19:29]
mod6 sometimes when i'm quoteing someone, as opposed to a thing, i'll use `` '' instead. [19:29]
mircea_popescu ah k [19:29]
phf so selecting works, but visiting url with selection gives me weirdest bugs :o [19:29]
ben_vulpes "selecting works!" [19:29]
ben_vulpes "viewing, not yet." [19:29]
mircea_popescu phf is this a case of "js is useless" or fixable ? [19:30]
phf i got tricked into hacking web [19:30]
mircea_popescu see what the republic can do to you ? [19:30]
mircea_popescu hide your daugthers, nothing is safe. [19:30]
phf gotta outsource it to ben_vulpes [19:30]
mircea_popescu #b-a corrupts deeper than anything aforeseen. [19:30]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo is actually right, there's some history of derpage in all this. [19:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 302 @ 0.0034999 = 1.057 BTC [-] [19:31]
phf he can get me a pm at $150/hr and two junior devs $50/hr each in no time. selection will work by next iteration, but will depend on jquery and react [19:31]
BingoBoingo since they agreed to only include low-s for whatever random reason / concern trolling / misinformed desire to be nice and good, they're stuck now. << It's power derps malleating tx on the way to miners, including on that realy network. [19:31]
ben_vulpes la serenissima might be able to rent my oar pullers if it could convert my deficit spending to turkey-buying dollars [19:31]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes serenissima would rather buy coke whores from drexl than west coast web coders. [19:32]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo is actually right, there's some history of derpage in all this. << username high-s malleator used on social media was 'amaclin' [19:32]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you think i don't know this? [19:32]
ben_vulpes how do you think i'd rather spend my dollars, on 'macbook pros' or bitcoins and linux workstations? [19:33]
mircea_popescu my bet is diapers and station wagons, but we digress :D [19:33]
BingoBoingo !b 3 [19:33]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3HV75KR.txt ) [19:33]
ben_vulpes diapers are pretty cheap, actually. [19:34]
ben_vulpes don't even add up to a whole computer over the year. [19:34]
mircea_popescu actually from what i hear, that's the voice of privilege. [19:34]
BingoBoingo brb after dinner and 12&12 study to issue qntra statement [19:34]
mircea_popescu anyone thinking diapers are cheap is not-poor in the us [19:34]
mircea_popescu just like everyone who had jeans was not-poor in su. [19:34]
mircea_popescu mod6 weather it is `high' or `low'. < [19:35]
mircea_popescu in the email to the mailing list. [R ?] [19:35]
mod6 oh hey, did i screw that up? [19:36]
ben_vulpes oop [19:37]
mod6 i don't follow. [19:37]
mircea_popescu the first is a mere spelling error. the second, shoul;dn't there be a [R]eference to the email ? [19:37]
mod6 mod6's vpatch, `mod6_der_high_low_s.vpatch' [R.09] [19:38]
mod6 ok yeah, there is a ref in there. ^ [19:38]
mod6 spelling error. christ on a pony. [19:38]
mod6 "Hier lies mod6, couldn't spell." [19:38]
ben_vulpes i even pointed that one out to you, but we're mad busy [19:38]
mircea_popescu [ V ]: [19:39]
mircea_popescu mod6 released V [v99996] [R.05] that resolved a defect and implemented two [19:39]
mircea_popescu change requests. The intimate details of the changes are outlined in the [19:39]
mircea_popescu email to the mailing list. [19:39]
mod6 oh f. yah you did. dangit. [19:39]
* mod6 headdrop [19:39]
mircea_popescu so then... add a [R.09] at end of that ? [19:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67095 @ 0.00055133 = 36.9915 BTC [-] {4} [19:39]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: would you confirm that tinyscheme_genesis_fixed.vpatch does *not* depend on shiva parts one and two? [19:39]
mod6 mircea_popescu: that part is just in reference to V's release in R.05, not the high/low S patch which is R.09 [19:40]
mircea_popescu so then "the email to the mailing list" symbol shouldn't have a reference ? [19:40]
mircea_popescu i dunno, doesn't have to, just asking. [19:40]
mod6 oh, it does, sometimes if it's been referenced before in the document, i don't re-reference it. [19:41]
mod6 NOTE: With the publication of the latest version of V [v99996] [R.05] these [19:41]
mod6 makefiles, as they were submitted to the Mailing List [R.06] [19:41]
mod6 where that part is above the section for [V] [19:41]
mircea_popescu ah ok [19:41]
mod6 i just tried to avoid extra clutter in there. [19:41]
ben_vulpes phf: selection works on chrome for me [19:42]
* jurov pats mod6 on the shoulder... no problem, i had to redo monthly treasury report once or twice, too [19:42]
phf ben_vulpes: yeah, i fixed more things since i last chimed in, but now end range is not being covered on safari [19:43]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes does the selection work on trilema for you ? [19:44]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: link me? [19:44]
ben_vulpes phf: also, if you'd care to share your llvm/clang compilator i'd love to take a look [19:45]
phf so i dropped patches from "[BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge." but i'm still missing something so they are just hanging there separately, http://104.131.72.249/patches/ [19:45]
assbot trb ... ( http://bit.ly/1WV9qcg ) [19:45]
punkman there's a part about a dir rename in that mail [19:46]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/splendor-in-the-grass/#selection-39.2-39.71 ? [19:46]
assbot Splendor in the Grass on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVE9pC ) [19:47]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: highlights "uppose if we were all mentally retarded a la United States / Some O" [19:47]
mircea_popescu holy shit [19:47]
mircea_popescu "riously, so the girl won't fuck because she figures you don't value her if she" << on my system [19:48]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/splendor-in-the-grass/#selection-43.3-43.70 does what you said [19:48]
assbot Splendor in the Grass on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRcmGc ) [19:48]
mircea_popescu omfg they don't count elements the same way. [19:48]
phf yeah, that's what i'm debugging right now [19:48]
ben_vulpes have fun boys [19:48]
ben_vulpes with that spittoon [19:49]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes https://archive.is/TtMr6#selection-83.9-83.27 < what's this select ? [19:49]
assbot Splendor in the Grass on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QRcs0E ) [19:49]
ben_vulpes "naked Natalie Wood" [19:49]
mircea_popescu RIGHT! [19:49]
ben_vulpes have fun [19:49]
mircea_popescu so wtf. [19:49]
ben_vulpes don't know or care [19:49]
phf mircea_popescu: it's broken across multiple dom elements [19:49]
mircea_popescu i guess i fucked it up when putting it on trilema ? asciilifeform ^ mind saying what the above link does ? [19:49]
ben_vulpes aha [19:51]
phf on safari first selection (if we were all...) simply breaks, second one works [19:51]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: has blessed us with a new root node with which to fuzz all v implementations [19:51]
mircea_popescu phf the truth is that it'd be great if there was a way for reader to select what text he's referencing. but if it can't be made to work then we can't really use it. [19:52]
ben_vulpes but it's so close! with only an unknowable amount of further hacking it could totally work! [19:54]
punkman why not highlight server-side [19:54]
phf ben_vulpes: so shiva 2 of 2 links to rest of tree, shiva 1 of 1 is a genesis with no descendants, and that whole tinyscheme_genesis_fixed tree presses into tinyscheme/ root that's not even inside bitcoin. i'm not sure what ascii is up to [19:54]
mircea_popescu punkman server doens't know what reader cares about. [19:54]
punkman just need a ? instead of # [19:55]
ben_vulpes phf: i see [19:55]
mircea_popescu punkman how do you figure this'd work ? [19:56]
mircea_popescu the dom is a wholly client side thing, server just spits out a string as far as it's concerned [19:56]
punkman it'd work better for viewing, because I've seen broken selections a lot too [19:56]
mircea_popescu viewport allignment also client side thing [19:56]
ben_vulpes a thing to do might be to leave the genesis press as-is, move the resulting tinyscheme dir into the correct shiva location and then press the rest of the patches reground to reference the shivadir [19:57]
ben_vulpes this means that v-pressings have to be idempotent. [19:57]
ben_vulpes eg that `v press shiva stans_sweet_patch.vpatch && v press shiva stans_sweet_patch.vpatch' must result in the same tree as running the command once. [19:59]
ben_vulpes so that operators can press, migrate dir, and press more. [19:59]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell asciilifeform ^^ plz to opine [20:00]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:00]
jurov !mpif [20:02]
assbot BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021486 B (Total: 426.88 B). Delta: -1.51 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000209 BTC [-] [20:02]
jurov !t m f.mpif [20:02]
assbot I don't give a shit who saw what and who did what or who did who. [20:02]
phf so if i have a->b->c d->e and i'm pressing to b, i need to make sure that topo sort is d e a b c, so that the press includes d and e [20:11]
phf doing by the book kahn topo sort on my graph results in topo a b c d e so pressing to c drops the whole d e subgraph [20:11]
punkman http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-liberty-reserve-pleads-guilty-laundering-more-250-million-through-his-digital qntra tip [20:14]
assbot Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250 Million through His Digital Currency Business | OPA | Department of Justice ... ( http://bit.ly/1WVGFwa ) [20:14]
ben_vulpes phf: yuuuup. [20:16]
felipelalli mircea_popescu, I know that you think expire a key is a bad idea. I saw you saying that in MPEx FAQ. But why? Could you elaborate more about that? Isn't that useful in case someone dies or lost the control over the key? [20:17]
felipelalli trinque, no I was talking about deedbot-. The bot didn't accept my renewed key. [20:19]
phf in fact kahn iterates over a set of nodes, so there's no explicit order guarantee [20:19]
felipelalli deedbot-: add-key http://dpaste.com/0019PDB.txt [20:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQYRXa ) [20:20]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97146 @ 0.00056026 = 54.427 BTC [+] {3} [20:21]
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ben_vulpes phf: the chains must kiss somewhere in order for the ordering to make sense [20:21]
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phf aye [20:21]
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felipelalli It makes a lot of sense to me: https://help.riseup.net/en/gpg-best-practices#use-an-expiration-date-less-than-two-years [20:23]
assbot OpenPGP Best Practices - help.riseup.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Prv5r4 ) [20:23]
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ben_vulpes felipelalli: mpex doesn't respect key expiration extension. [20:23]
phf i can change my toposort to consider first seen nodes first, which results in the full press like http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 [20:24]
assbot asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Prvdqq ) [20:24]
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phf but that merges nodes from unrelated graphs without any sort of sense or reason [20:24]
phf so pressing anything from shiva graph is entirely senseless http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_tinyscheme_shiva_bridge [20:25]
assbot asciilifeform_tinyscheme_shiva_bridge ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrvlpP ) [20:25]
phf asciilifeform: ^ plx [20:26]
ben_vulpes http://104.131.72.249/patches/tinyscheme_genesis_fixed << you still have 1/2 and 2/2 in there [20:26]
assbot tinyscheme_genesis_fixed ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrvqKh ) [20:26]
ben_vulpes this is a nifty patchbrowser, phf [20:26]
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ben_vulpes phf: what do you mean "first seen nodes"? [20:28]
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phf ben_vulpes: kahn loops over a list of nodes that starts with genesis. on each iteration node in the list is inspected, its children added to the list for further inspection. you can give priority to what was in the list first or give priority to what's in the list last, which will produce either depth first or breadth first walk [20:33]
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ben_vulpes aha. [20:34]
ben_vulpes i suspect v's toposort will need to account for multiple geneses [20:35]
phf http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388877 [20:35]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 18:19:27; phf: right now it seems like an artifact of topo sort [20:35]
ben_vulpes either that or find roots first, toposort from each root, and then apply each set of toposorted patches in some arbitrary order [20:35]
phf well, original v uses python dictionary for "list to inspect", i.e. order is non-deterministic [20:36]
ben_vulpes mhm, i recall [20:37]
ben_vulpes i think it's asciibeterministic [20:37]
mircea_popescu phf> doing by the book kahn topo sort on my graph results in topo a b c d e so pressing to c drops the whole d e subgraph << this is correct. [20:42]
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mircea_popescu mircea_popescu, I know that you think expire a key is a bad idea. I saw you saying that in MPEx FAQ. But why? Could you elaborate more about that? Isn't that useful in case someone dies or lost the control over the key? << how is a bitfield in the gpg key help you in case you die ? or lose control of the key ? neither of these are time-able events. [20:42]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: this introduces a conflict between "pressing a head presses all signed patches at same leaf-level that have been signed by wot" [20:46]
ben_vulpes conflict *with [20:46]
mircea_popescu between what and what ? [20:46]
mircea_popescu uh. how are unconnected nodes at "the same level" ? they're at an undefined level [20:46]
mircea_popescu and undefined is by definition not equal to anything [20:46]
ben_vulpes this was a thing i bounced off weeks ago! [20:47]
mircea_popescu if d e do not have a common antecessor with c, pressig to c dropps them. [20:47]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-11-2015#1323384 [20:47]
assbot Logged on 14-11-2015 02:10:00; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the press algo must then press all same-tree-level leaves for the given leaf, correct? [20:47]
mircea_popescu SAME LEVEL! [20:47]
mircea_popescu nodes at undefined level are not same with anything. [20:47]
ben_vulpes howzabout another scenario [20:48]
mircea_popescu c is level 2. d is level ?. [20:48]
mircea_popescu ? != 2. [20:48]
ben_vulpes d is level 0, actually [20:48]
ben_vulpes as is a [20:48]
mircea_popescu no, it is not. [20:48]
mircea_popescu a is level 0, for c. d is level ? for c. [20:48]
mircea_popescu you're thinking global scope like some sort of perlhead. [20:48]
ben_vulpes flow already makes this mistake iirc [20:49]
ben_vulpes but there's no guarantee that it renders a b c d e instead of d e a b c [20:49]
ben_vulpes BECAUSE FLATTENING TREES [20:49]
mircea_popescu huh ? [20:49]
mircea_popescu anyway. there is no concept of level defined outside of a press. [20:50]
* ben_vulpes refuses to give up [20:50]
mircea_popescu if you're pressing c, then all the leaves c depends on have levels, and only they have a level. [20:50]
ben_vulpes yes! [20:51]
mircea_popescu so a has 0 and c has 2 and d has nothing. [20:51]
ben_vulpes what is to be done with c' and c'', then (patches that also depend on b but have nothing to do with c) [20:51]
mircea_popescu if you're pressing e, d is 0, and e is 1, and a, b and c are all ? [20:51]
ben_vulpes yes i follow, slow as i am [20:52]
mircea_popescu aite. [20:52]
ben_vulpes but the primes, do i press them? or simply recurse up the antecedent chain cleanly? [20:52]
mircea_popescu what primes ? [20:52]
ben_vulpes a b {c, c', c''} [20:52]
ben_vulpes where c, c' and c'' all depend on b. if i press c, do c' and c'' make it as well? [20:53]
mircea_popescu that's entirely up to you neh ? i'd prefer it if i told you to press c for you to limit yourself to pressing c. [20:53]
mircea_popescu someone who is doing debugging might wish to see the whole tree all the way down [20:53]
mircea_popescu this is up to the user. [20:53]
ben_vulpes sure, and i don't take much umbrage at this. [20:54]
mircea_popescu generally from what i've understood, the default behaviour was production (1st above), whereas people these days decided they'd like to see development (2nd above). i also don't take umbrage with this. [20:54]
mircea_popescu but unconnected graphs are a horse of another feather. [20:55]
mircea_popescu you wanna see shiva, press e. [20:55]
ben_vulpes sorry for all the dumb questions, just working to tease out into explicitude what everyone else takes for granted. [20:58]
phf mircea_popescu: what to do about a b->c->d e->f press to c. a b c? or b c? [20:58]
mircea_popescu a b c [20:59]
mircea_popescu o sorry [20:59]
mircea_popescu b c [20:59]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no it's not bad, make sure we're ACTUALLY on the same page as opposed to just jointly excited. [21:00]
punkman choosing a position in toposorted list for pressing was just a hack to keep things simple [21:03]
jurov deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160201/201601.txt.asc?sha1=295f2ea0b44fc825f052392229d3dc61cf9a2744 [21:04]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tvyy9A ) [21:04]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [21:04]
ben_vulpes thank you jurov! [21:05]
ben_vulpes and thank you for reporting per my ask. [21:06]
jurov yw [21:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55608 @ 0.00055514 = 30.8702 BTC [-] {2} [21:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114250 @ 0.00055285 = 63.1631 BTC [-] {6} [21:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17870 @ 0.00055586 = 9.9332 BTC [+] {2} [21:22]
adlai deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/27A07FS.txt [21:25]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QB19Yz ) [21:25]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [21:25]
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deedbot- [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Report - http://qntra.net/2016/02/qntra-s-qntr-january-2016-report/ [21:35]
BingoBoingo punkman: Feel free to qntra it up I got a meeting to get to. [21:38]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2KNDK9M.txt [21:39]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QB2gr5 ) [21:39]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [21:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 415813 @ 0.00056296 = 234.0861 BTC [+] {8} [22:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3432 @ 0.00056417 = 1.9362 BTC [+] {2} [22:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83175 @ 0.00055921 = 46.5123 BTC [-] {3} [22:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79800 @ 0.00056567 = 45.1405 BTC [+] {3} [23:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00056676 = 16.1527 BTC [+] [23:26]
BingoBoingo !up TheRealJohnGalt [23:27]
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BingoBoingo !up alphonse23_ [23:27]
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BingoBoingo !up Norbiss [23:27]
* assbot gives voice to Norbiss [23:27]
BingoBoingo !up raedah [23:28]
* assbot gives voice to raedah [23:28]
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ben_vulpes https://www.instagram.com/p/BBObFK5L0Gf/?taken-by=mediablackoutusa [23:32]
assbot Instagram ... ( http://bit.ly/1JT7E9J ) [23:32]
ben_vulpes good evening, BingoBoingo [23:32]
BingoBoingo evening Mr. Fox [23:32]
ben_vulpes how was the 12/12 [23:35]
ben_vulpes unrelated: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rent-damn-high-founder-endorses-trump-president-article-1.2514218?cid=bitly [23:37]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/20AYgeW ) [23:37]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Not bad. Quite a few visitors for a sunday meeting [23:37]
ben_vulpes you've been in it for what, 2 months at this point? [23:37]
mircea_popescu how many months is it for the special hat ? [23:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78628 @ 0.00056701 = 44.5829 BTC [+] {3} [23:39]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes wut ? [23:41]
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BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: 3 [23:42]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Better than hats, they do coins for 1, 3, 6, and then every year. [23:42]
ben_vulpes works if you work it [23:42]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu wut? [23:43]
mircea_popescu no idea why i'm reading random blather about the human fund - money for people. or w/e [23:44]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [23:44]
ben_vulpes trumpenreich 2016, duh [23:44]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 368.95, vol: 4409.94441176 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 375.493, vol: 3441.25724 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 366.85, vol: 20204.78414813 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 369.0, vol: 0.03261465 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 375.360084, vol: 33446.40800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 369.62307, vol: 241.10449841 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 381.111934904, vol: 33.66723239 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [23:44]
BingoBoingo ;;more [23:44]
gribble average: 372.107348189 [23:44]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency eur [23:44]
gribble Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 340.09811, vol: 4409.94441176 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 345.15, vol: 45.68 | CampBX BTCEUR last: 340.1442, vol: 0.03261465 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 346.283202, vol: 33447.39620000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 343.99974, vol: 2854.81219994 | Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 351.31999899, vol: 33.66723239 | Volume-weighted last average: 345.457610149 [23:45]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy [23:45]
gribble Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 44751.79025, vol: 4417.71642254 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 45545.180845, vol: 3441.55924 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 44757.855, vol: 0.03261465 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 45564.6627, vol: 33447.72720000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 44000.0, vol: 29.32626815 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46224.9288671, vol: 33.66723239 | Volume-weighted last average: 45475.6666147 [23:45]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb [23:45]
gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2477.0, vol: 33448.04360000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2477.0 [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76000 @ 0.00056629 = 43.038 BTC [-] [23:45]
* NewLiberty_ (~NewLibert@2602:30a:c060:8f09:d99e:4f54:21c6:3647) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:48]
* BingoBoingo is now known as oglafbot [23:48]
oglafbot http://oglaf.com/perjury/ [23:49]
assbot Hot Perjury ... ( http://bit.ly/20AYRgN ) [23:49]
* oglafbot is now known as BingoBoingo [23:49]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [23:51]
* assbot removes voice from TheRealJohnGalt [23:57]
* assbot removes voice from alphonse23_ [23:58]
* assbot removes voice from raedah [23:58]
phf a curio for the lisp aficionados http://mumble.net/~jar/pseudoscheme/ an implementation of scheme in common lisp forward ported from lisp machines. a precursor to scheme48, so gets a lot of things right [23:58]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/20AZpTN ) [23:58]
Category: Logs
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