Forum logs for 31 Aug 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[00:51]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[00:51]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[00:51]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[00:51]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[00:51]
Apocalyptic	asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?	[00:52]
asciilifeform	Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.	[00:53]
asciilifeform	Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic do you know it ?	[00:54]
asciilifeform	everybody knows that one.	[00:54]
Apocalyptic	this looks like it was printed first, allegedly in 1990	[00:54]
Apocalyptic	mircea, I'm asking whether it's worth a read, I don't have nor know it	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	i meant the joke	[00:55]
Apocalyptic	I don't	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire.	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	"mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?"	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	"i dunno... maybe stop sending niggers ?"	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ?	[00:58]
asciilifeform	based on supposedly-actual story, where russians noticed that staples in certain passports failed to rust.	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	yea lol	[00:59]
asciilifeform	cristopher << brit. mitrokhin surrendered to the brits.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[00:59]
asciilifeform	muppet, who was given the job of cranking out a tabloid-grade book supposedly based on the 100kg or so of stolen paper.	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	"inside the genovese family, by derparian herparistarian." wtf already. no armenians in sicily.	[01:00]
asciilifeform	lol	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	anyway, one is well advised to evaluate his level of interest on such topics. if it's a passing casual worth 5k words then skimming one of these pulpy offerings is maybe fine. if serious enough to remember names, then probably skimming the original papers is a better bet	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	rather than reading the same "us girl next door in a sheet = roman matron" story re-written over and over 500 times.	[01:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: very few of the original papers were ever made public as such	[01:02]
asciilifeform	and the authenticity of the ones that were - is, naturally, questionable.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	srsly when i saw you discussing indexing and searching pdf documents i thought this is what it was for - all that crap is pdf-digitized.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	outside of digging through secret service archives, why the fuck would anyone put up with pdf.	[01:03]
asciilifeform	some. of the purported crap. yes.	[01:03]
asciilifeform	russians, accustomed to carrying around terabytes of scanned w4r3z for a generation, prefer 'djvu' - for which there is really no substitute.	[01:04]
decimation	djvu is a pretty amazing 'paper' compression tool. proprietary "paperport" works very well too	[01:05]
asciilifeform	(fully documented format, originally, afaik, crapped out by 'bell labs')	[01:05]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[01:05]
asciilifeform	'djvu', even on an aged box, scrolls so quickly one almost can believe he has a microfilm viewer.	[01:06]
asciilifeform	a fat book takes <5 MB typically.	[01:06]
asciilifeform	if you have an 'ocr' system, the format allows for an searchable text 'track.'	[01:07]
decimation	to be fair I think there are methods of using good compression with pdf too. My main point yesterday was about searching the text, for which pdfs are not necessary. after all, if you ocr it, then it ought to exist as a .txt file	[01:07]
asciilifeform	afaik patent trolls succeeded in more or less exterminating acceptable compression for scanned books. djvu was devised by folks who didn't care to comply.	[01:09]
asciilifeform	present-day ocr is notoriously inadequate for scanned historic documents, esp. of poor quality or non-latin scripts.	[01:09]
asciilifeform	plus one generally wants to keep the photos.	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	this would have been a perfect application for ai	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	"given this string and this set of photos, find the string likelies"	[01:11]
asciilifeform	ocr performed on 'djvu' document typically inserts an ascii text track, along with 'bounding boxes' internally	[01:11]
asciilifeform	so document becomes quasi-searchable while viewed in the customary way	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	sadly... no ai.	[01:11]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I agree, 'djvu' with a text-track would be a pretty good format	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	maybe with quantum computing.	[01:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: it's already in the standard	[01:11]
asciilifeform	modern 'neural network' ocr - at least for latin alphabet - is 99+% accurate. sadly this is not enough to dispense with the original images.	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	i meant "for any script"	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	it's MACHINE intelligence after all neh ?	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	this is where it should shine	[01:13]
asciilifeform	yes, we'd all like 'a pony.'	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	i'd like a fluffy one! :D	[01:14]
fluffypony	lol	[01:14]
asciilifeform	'i even made a pony-monkey hybrid to please you! what's with all the screaming. you like monkeys, you like ponys. maybe i used too many monkeys... isn't it enough that i ruined a pony making a gift for you!'	[01:14]
decimation	asciilifeform: do you know of a reasonable gui tool to search and index djvu's with text?	[01:15]
*	mircea_popescu sayz sed! awk! then re-reads the gui part, ponders, gets depressed and leaves.	[01:16]
Apocalyptic	heh	[01:16]
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ben_vulpes	jurov: shrug	[01:22]
ben_vulpes	indexing the blockchain? sed and awk!	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes what is the objection ?	[01:23]
decimation	mircea_popescu: sed, awk works fine if you want to search your entire corpus every time	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	and if you don't you can make them make an index file.	[01:24]
ben_vulpes	ain't none	[01:24]
decimation	this is true, seems like it should be a 'solved problem'. I think some implementations of 'hadoop' do exactly this	[01:24]
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dignork	decimation: Lucene probably	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	decimation i think the only reason it isn't a solved problem is this sort of argument : http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/ ie "usability". once you add that fuzzy requirement smart people get bored and leave,	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	leaving the mess to be handled by the sort of people that make guis.	[01:27]
decimation	true. making a good gui is difficult and thankless work	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	no, it is impossible and thankless work. difficult is one thing.	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	but a good gui is a provab le impossibility. "make me a very hot woman that still wants to be my girlfriend instead of say that guy's"	[01:28]
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decimation	jurov: agreed. I'm always having to consult find, grep, xargs, etc man pages	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	well depends how much thought you put into it	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	i don't readily remember the names of all the women i've been with either.	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	on the upside, once you get it done you can forget about it.	[01:38]
decimation	heh yeah, which results in sites like this: www.commandlinefu.com/	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	"Create a random file of a certain, and display progress along the way."	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	SYNTAX ERROR!	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	MISSING PARAMETER AFTER "certain". please read your commandlinefu documentation and try again!!11	[01:41]
mircea_popescu	and who the hell has cowsay installed omg.	[01:42]
Apocalyptic	"Random data is generated by encrypting /dev/zero" // a curious way to generate random data	[01:43]
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mircea_popescu	"random"	[01:46]
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asciilifeform	'error - not a typewriter' << actual	[01:48]
jurov	lp0 on fire	[01:48]
mircea_popescu	not a bad idea jurov	[01:48]
asciilifeform	lp0 on fire << saw this alive	[01:48]
asciilifeform	(not the message. the condition.)	[01:49]
asciilifeform	mis-spent youth.	[01:49]
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asciilifeform	'usability' << is not necessarily a nonsense word. consider the difference between the linux and bsd userland utils	[01:53]
asciilifeform	in the latter, considerably greater consistency of flags	[01:53]
asciilifeform	but yes, normally when people whine about 'usability,' they want - pony.	[01:55]
asciilifeform	i.e., instrument with user interface of a pencil, but somehow not the functionality of pencil.	[01:56]
asciilifeform	'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'	[01:56]
mircea_popescu	^	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	(the cunt also)	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	oddly enough.	[01:57]
asciilifeform	on which end.	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	on both ends.	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	dealing with the fallout is learned, but using the things is innate.	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	and for that matter, pencils are horribly unintuitive interfaces. think of all the great drawing in the world, and the poor user buying a pencil in the shop will draw what ? a cat ?	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	this old world sort of nonsense can not endure my friends! i am making a company that will revolutionize drawing!	[01:59]
asciilifeform	-- said herr daguerre	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	shit.	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	i just walked into that didn't .	[02:00]
asciilifeform	did. lol	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	+i	[02:00]
*	asciilifeform always found it interesting that people whine if they try to use his computer, but never think to borrow eyeglasses and then complain	[02:02]
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asciilifeform	obligatory:	[02:03]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=836	[02:03]
assbot	Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated.	[02:03]
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asciilifeform	(moral, for the thick, is that an equivalent of the profession 'optician' does not yet exist for these machines)	[02:04]
asciilifeform	and may not ever exist.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	dude you and your vi hate.	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	but actually... i find myself using nano a lot moar these days	[02:08]
decimation	I use nano when emacs is too heavy-handed	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	so mebbe there's some meat to the assertion, vi inhabits a middle that doesnt really exist	[02:12]
penguirker	New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/operation-terrorstorm-oneoneeleventy/	[02:14]
mod6	<3 vi/m	[02:15]
cazalla	oh boy	[02:20]
cazalla	sounds like decentralised swatting	[02:23]
decimation	mircea_popescu: yeah your post reminds me of Mr. Yarvin's point about insulting the "protected class".	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	cazalla quite. costs like a bitcoin to do, too.	[02:23]
decimation	one wonders about the total sum of $ that usg has spent just this year searching enemies of the people	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	i have a glass table and an optic mouse.	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	fucking hell.	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBYM6g8Tck	[02:34]
assbot	Los del Rio - Macarena (Original Video) [HD] - YouTube	[02:34]
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cazalla	i wonder what the chicks in that music video look like now	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	fifty year olds.	[02:36]
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cazalla	!s newegg	[02:47]
assbot	22 results for 'newegg' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=newegg	[02:47]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#756333	[02:48]
assbot	Logged on 15-07-2014 16:54:16; ThickAsThieves: even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg	[02:48]
cazalla	would it be a safe bet the reason newegg and other sites offer a discount when using bitcoin is that it's easy means of coin for usg? they can print as much $ to give discounts and the coin flows from customers -> newegg -> bitpay -> usg?	[02:50]
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The20YearIRCloud	http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/8/27/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-on-galts-gulch-chile.html	[02:58]
assbot	The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on Galt's Gulch Chile	[02:58]
The20YearIRCloud	so mr berwick knew problems last year and didnt do anything?	[02:58]
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thestringpuller	i am about to go into a panel on bitcoin lol	[03:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00085109 = 5.447 BTC [-]	[03:07]
thestringpuller	cazalla: this is great point	[03:08]
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mircea_popescu	http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=240 lawl	[03:16]
assbot	#bitcoin-assets bash	[03:16]
decimation	lol The20YearIRCloud that's an amusing post	[03:17]
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mircea_popescu	uomoletale ahajhajaja	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	!up blast	[03:19]
-assbot-	You voiced blast for 30 minutes.	[03:19]
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blast	huzza	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud i don't get what this "let's all go huddle together" thing is supposed to do.	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	seems of the ilk of "island of women" and "tower of song", ie, cheap notional filler for "virtual spaces" a la video games	[03:20]
blast	but the island of woman is real, except its a mountain, in brazil ;D	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	;;google tvtropes planet of hats	[03:20]
gribble	Main/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: ; Webcomic/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: ; Main/Planet of Copyhats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes:	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	blast romania has this too. it's called gaina, which is how you say hen, and it's the place surpluss women were taken by their tribe for to sell over to another tribe for > 5k years.	[03:21]
penguirker	New blog post: http://contravex.com/2014/08/30/im-big-in-fuzhou/	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em << isn't there a reality show predicated on this process ?	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	decimation lmao at those terms. so... why get it then ?	[03:24]
asciilifeform	i thought those go to the basement of 'the fed' in wash., d.c.	[03:24]
asciilifeform	it is said to contain a great many.	[03:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: re: 'swat' post: am i the only one who instantly thought of this: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/files/2009/09/14-sovietleaderleonidbrezhnevandeas.jpg	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	someone should morph http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swatted.png to the lemons kissing.	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	as a gif. enough nightmare fuel there for a week	[03:27]
thestringpuller	theu are talking aboit the collapse of mtgox	[03:28]
thestringpuller	i will be referwncing trilema	[03:28]
thestringpuller	wow lag beyond trade engine lag	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere << bs lol.	[03:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'usg' in that context also includes all 'decay daughters' thereof	[03:29]
asciilifeform	i.e., armed thugs turned free-agent when the whole thing finally blows	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	even so.	[03:29]
asciilifeform	in my experience, folks preoccupied with hidey-holes tend to neglect the question of where they intend to hide... their arse	[03:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085067 = 18.1193 BTC [-] {2}	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile back at reality ranch, obtaining superior fire power in a limited geographical area is a trivial task.	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	the usg collapsing doesn't make it harder.	[03:31]
asciilifeform	while supplies last.	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	for everyone. this is not a valid objection any more than saying "for as long as gravity is still in force"	[03:32]
asciilifeform	and if it becomes generally known that, e.g., a Castle Moldenstein, contains a bunker full of goodies - there is the incentive for all-comers to soften the target.	[03:32]
asciilifeform	the best castle wall is - distance. works even on nukes.	[03:33]
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mircea_popescu	it's not as simple as that.	[03:35]
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mircea_popescu	take any stirkingly beautiful woman walking into a bar. is she more likely or less likely to be hit on ?	[03:36]
asciilifeform	point, yes	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	any supermodel material chick will tell you nobody dares, on the assumption.	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	so, some may try to soften the target, which allows the target to populate the road towards it with heads on pikes.	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	which is the point of a "justice system" in the first place.	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	overall, these would be "softeners" work as hardeners and are quite useful.	[03:37]
asciilifeform	there are folks (in usa) working on this variant as we speak. the ones that succeed and aren't provocateur shills - we'll know because none of them are on the net.	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	and which is why it's so important to get the message loud and clear to any bureaucrat anywhere, that if it comes to war, and we win, he will hang.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	no questions asked, and his children will be raped for the public record.	[03:38]
asciilifeform	if this happens - it'll be a historic first, afaik.	[03:38]
asciilifeform	ussr, for instance, did no such thing when germany lost.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	ussr isn't remembered for having been led by the smartest people ever.	[03:39]
asciilifeform	how does one say 'приспособленец' in english ?	[03:39]
asciilifeform	that's who most of the muppets in question are	[03:39]
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mircea_popescu	but yes, the "no historical precedent" is what the bureaucrat instinctively answers	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	it was on display earlier in this very chan.	[03:40]
asciilifeform	naturally.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	here's a thought : everything that has historical precendent now didn't originally.	[03:40]
asciilifeform	led by the smartest people ever << aye. witness that there are 'ukrainians' alive.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	on the strenght of the zero one infinity rule alone, and of the banal observation that bitcoin also has no historical precendent, it seems... unwise to bet that 1 is the lucky number.	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	infinity seems infinitely more likely.	[03:41]
asciilifeform	inventions - happen.	[03:41]
asciilifeform	seems like we've this one nailed down. now, implementation... 'exercise for alert reader.'	[03:42]
[]bot	Bet created: "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it will probably come down to "you're not in the wot, and so therefore may not claim to own property or pretend to sue anyone"	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	problem solved.	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	"your negative rating in the wot means you can be killed by anyone and nobody'll care or do anything about it"	[03:44]
mircea_popescu	now try and argue why it's not really fair that you're negrated because some major players didn't like your early anti-bitcoin involvement.	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	xmj experienced live a tiny case study of this general principle, originally.	[03:45]
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[]bot	Bet placed: 3.35069497 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.45069497 BTC. Current weight: 99,995.	[03:51]
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[]bot	Bet created: "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/	[04:04]
asciilifeform	killed by anyone << aha - 'homo sacer'	[04:06]
[]bot	Bet created: "Any DERP to bite it" http://bitbet.us/bet/1035/	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property << that';s maybe going a little far. but the right to quash any action of anyone involving that land is germane.	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	(you wouldn't be able to arrest anyone, but you would be able to void any application for a warrant)	[04:07]
[]bot	Bet created: "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away << this argument is flawed in the following way : for he who is repulsed by war, this holds true. for he who however enjoys war, no payment is necessary.	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	the relevant quote is in http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ :	[04:08]
assbot	A very unfair perspective. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[04:08]
asciilifeform	if like war - straight to war.	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	There isn’t, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active. If you’re not prepared and absolutely willing to spend any amount of time up to the entire rest of your life seeking out and butchering leeches with only the satifaction of well applied, excruciating cruelty as your reward, you’re not made for this world and you won’t long have a place	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	in it. This can’t be delegated, it’s a personal thing. Like citizenship. Like nationality. The only nation immune to the fate of Rhodesia is a nation of that kind of people, living in that kind of world.	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	and it links quite well into "what would the devil have to pay you for you to love him".	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	if you don't like living, you can't be paid to live.	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	if you like living, pay is not really a relevant consideration.	[04:09]
asciilifeform	but notice that active players in a war rarely occupy themselves with hiding valuables	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	because the fetish of value is not value	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	and people who like to live have enough sense to understand this difference.	[04:09]
asciilifeform	hold territory - sure. impale enemies - yes. bury treasure - why ?	[04:09]
asciilifeform	hence the sea capsule example. for some classes of object (nuke?) this might be cost-effective storage.	[04:10]
asciilifeform	(free up the men normally guarding for other pursuits; replace with king neptune, who can't be bribed and doesn't sleep)	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	kinda what the nuclear subs are anyway.	[04:11]
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asciilifeform	yes. but those have engines, men, cost more.	[04:12]
asciilifeform	sea capsule is just a gedankenexperiment (though, i'm told, u.s. navy has insisted on actually trying.) i'm not altogether convinced that, properly carried out, it is cheaper than 'graveyard orbit'	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	not easy evaluating what such things cost.	[04:24]
[]bot	Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ Odds: 2(Y):98(N) by coin, 2(Y):98(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.6 BTC. Current weight: 99,988.	[04:24]
decimation	re: allodial title: I suppose with reference to how it was practiced in medieval England, the king's agents could be on your property on business which has the mutual consent of the king and his lords	[04:25]
asciilifeform	i did tally up the cost, but the first anything naturally - expensive.	[04:25]
decimation	re:safe deposit box, my understanding is that these are the terms all banks in the us give for such things	[04:25]
asciilifeform	drowning a box of strange in the atlantic is a considerably quieter operation than launching a rocket, however. so perhaps it wins.	[04:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6334 @ 0.0008534 = 5.4054 BTC [+]	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	decimation it's complicated, but in general property is the bane of human existence, so any absolute property has the potential to be absolutely murderous.	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	(look at what happened when people thought the church is a people, started donating a little to it and inadvertently created the largest landholder because unlike them, thge church didn;t die regularly)	[04:26]
decimation	I'm thinking of the mongols' advantage over the static empires of the east	[04:26]
asciilifeform	decimation: the point of the bank box story is that it was entirely unclear to me wtf is the very point of such a thing, given the caveats	[04:26]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire	[04:27]
decimation	certainly nothing of 'value'	[04:27]
asciilifeform	decimation: esp. since the one and only event that could reasonably be insured against - contents present at logged date N and absent on opening N+k - wasn't.	[04:27]
decimation	well I think those terms are 'aspirational' - it goes to the arbitration conversation from a few weeks ago. everyone wants a click-wrap eula that holds them immune from any liability	[04:28]
asciilifeform	implication, to me, was - if you're happy with the box, take your goodies and post them straight to the enemy - at least then you'll know where they are.	[04:29]
decimation	heh yeah agreed, especially if the 'value' of those items was simply the information on the documents	[04:30]
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decimation	re: gult's gulch << I find it amusing that folks who supposedly value 'self-reliance' and 'liberty' are unable to actually fly to chile and buy some land for themselves, it can't be that hard for a person with means & brains	[04:31]
asciilifeform	decimation: see mircea_popescu's point earlier	[04:32]
asciilifeform	decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls	[04:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire << divorce.	[04:32]
asciilifeform	divorce << probably the worst possible use of a bank box in usa. other tidbit in the contract was that the bank will immediately impound any box against whose owner there are civil proceedings	[04:33]
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decimation	in which case the courts will hand whatever valubles to the woman, 'to support the children'	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls << well their government kinda depends on this principle, so if it';s good enough for the king...	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	this is what fucking moral hazard means, incidentally.	[04:33]
asciilifeform	i can hardly picture a dumber hiding place then a container in a public place with your name on it.	[04:34]
mircea_popescu	ok, so no divorce, no flood http://www.cnbc.com/id/49972188	[04:34]
mircea_popescu	fire seems the only reason left :p	[04:34]
asciilifeform	fire was also excluded.	[04:35]
asciilifeform	0 liability for bank.	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	seeing how supermarkets also offer lockable containers on the same premise as banks do	[04:36]
mircea_popescu	it seems to me it's time to go down on sam's club for acting like a bank w/o a license.	[04:36]
asciilifeform	upon reading of that contract, i came to inescapable conclusion that the box thing is an active chump-magnet rather than simply a poor deal.	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	basically, it's the living wage embodied.	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	everyone wants to be paid a rent for existing	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	banks not exluded.	[04:38]
The20YearIRCloud	safe deposit boxes?	[04:38]
asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: them.	[04:39]
The20YearIRCloud	Around here, most use coffee cans buried. Now you can go to a store and get a "underground safe"	[04:39]
decimation	let me look at my terms... yep, it excludes fire, explosion, intense heat, smoke, water (including fire suppression system) building collapse, terrorism, war, intentional destructive acts, or failures of electrical, mechanical, plumbing or structural systems, or for actions caused by any person	[04:39]
asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: field day for the folks with ground-penetrating radar.	[04:39]
asciilifeform	(not to be confused with 'mine detector' that every kid owns)	[04:39]
asciilifeform	decimation: my particular one even mentioned failure of the vault locks.	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	hahaahah	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	dudes you gotta get out of the sticks, srsly.	[04:40]
The20YearIRCloud	I keep looking for GPR so i can take it to properties/estates I buy out	[04:41]
The20YearIRCloud	Once in a while I get the chance to buy a un-touched estate - Kids have no interest or are out of state, a trustee locks the property up and you bid on the real estate + all contents	[04:42]
asciilifeform	get out of the sticks << all of us in the sticks - are there for reasons.	[04:42]
asciilifeform	just like the other wretches stuck therein	[04:42]
decimation	The20YearIRCloud: yeah that's probably not a bad idea, radar would also find unpleasant surprises that are buried	[04:42]
The20YearIRCloud	Such as?	[04:42]
asciilifeform	decimation: the instrument in question is no military secret of any kind. contact a firm that lays pipes.	[04:43]
asciilifeform	or - build own.	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	Such as? << dead hookers, for one.	[04:43]
The20YearIRCloud	I don't know that they can be built, the costs were exorbant for non-military types	[04:43]
asciilifeform	incidentally, if burial is recent, a searcher can use 'nazi method'	[04:44]
The20YearIRCloud	and the thing is, for the most part the world is a big big place and GPR is very limited in what it can do	[04:44]
asciilifeform	that is, pour water, see how quickly it absorbs	[04:44]
decimation	The20YearIRCloud: barrels of toxic waste?	[04:44]
The20YearIRCloud	Or mason jars full of old coins :D	[04:44]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud here's an exercise for you. today you find in a yard 1k coins of 10 grams each, minted 1750.	[04:45]
asciilifeform	when digging my garden (moved out of microscopic flat in late may, into a rented house) i found intact glass bottles, with caps on. appear to contain decades-old 'coca cola.'	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	how much is this find worth in dollars ?	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	(gold coins, i mean)	[04:46]
The20YearIRCloud	One guy found around $200k in his back yard in my area	[04:46]
decimation	there was this story last year: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-buried-california-gold-coins-auction-20140528-story.html	[04:46]
asciilifeform	how much he kept from the 200 ?	[04:46]
assbot	Rare gold coins buried in California hit market; one fetches $15,000 - LA Times	[04:46]
The20YearIRCloud	Depends on who minted them and the composition :D	[04:46]
asciilifeform	how much the crown took; how much - auctioneers	[04:46]
The20YearIRCloud	Even in the mid 1700s the quality of gold coins ranged from 50% to 92.5%	[04:47]
The20YearIRCloud	$15k isn't much for a 'rare gold coin'	[04:47]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud how much did he get to buy beer for ?	[04:47]
asciilifeform	plus such finds are generally sold for numismatic value, and not as bullion	[04:47]
asciilifeform	so anyone's guess	[04:47]
decimation	The20YearIRCloud: that was one coin out of 1400	[04:47]
mircea_popescu	(in general your take is about the same as if publishing a book : about 5 to 10% after govt, agent, editor etc is done raping you)	[04:47]
The20YearIRCloud	But usually the sensationalist media takes the biggest/best one to start it off with	[04:47]
decimation	:The so-called Saddle Ridge Hoard, made up of denominations of $5, $10 and $20, could bring in $10 million when the sale is all said and done, with several pieces expected to command prices as high as $1 million, experts say."	[04:47]
The20YearIRCloud	heck we had a local auctioneer do one guy's coin collection, the whole collection fit on a few small tables and sold for $350k	[04:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: and this isn't even considering the variant with spurious lawsuits	[04:48]
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mircea_popescu	indeed.	[04:48]
decimation	one wonders about the potential 'laundry' being done off of such a rich stash	[04:48]
asciilifeform	for instance, IANAL, but i can easily picture, e.g, a landlord, arguing 'mineral rights' on the coins.	[04:48]
asciilifeform	or - to make life more interesting - let's say that you find a sealed crate of kalashes, in cosmoline, rather than coins.	[04:49]
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decimation	or barrels of toxic waste	[04:49]
asciilifeform	or 'mustard gas' - as happened in early 2000s near an embassy in d.c.	[04:50]
decimation	heh didn't hear about that til now http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/jan99/mustard24.htm	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ah that's where saddam was keeping his chem weapons ?	[04:50]
asciilifeform	worth what? plenty. liquidate it? more likely, your organs will be sold to pay for it carted away	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	o wait, it wasn't him. it was bush that hung for this	[04:51]
asciilifeform	lol	[04:51]
The20YearIRCloud	If I find a box of AKs here in the US there's nothing to do but leap for joy	[04:51]
decimation	"Army officials say the canisters, if they exist, do not pose a threat to the affluent Spring Valley neighborhood as long as they remain undisturbed." << "it's okay for you"	[04:51]
asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: afaik+ianal - it depends where in usa.	[04:51]
The20YearIRCloud	Theoretically it'd be possible to sell them in any state if you take the right steps	[04:52]
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The20YearIRCloud	if they're real-deal AKs you just demill the reciever, then the rest can be sold	[04:52]
asciilifeform	if they're the real thing (full auto) - you're probably bankrupt just staying out of court	[04:52]
asciilifeform	sold as scrap, yes.	[04:52]
The20YearIRCloud	if they're semi autos, they can be sold to out of state	[04:52]
The20YearIRCloud	Scrap = Worth $300-$3000 depending on make	[04:52]
asciilifeform	to go back to the example with coins - you're probably safe if you melt them down and sell by gram	[04:53]
decimation	start stashing 7.62 ammo and raise army	[04:53]
The20YearIRCloud	The serial numbered portion is the only part essentially that's illegal	[04:53]
asciilifeform	but this destroys most of the value of the find	[04:53]
asciilifeform	so we're no longer answering the question of what the find per se is worth, in that case.	[04:53]
The20YearIRCloud	With regards to coins, you only need to avoid the very, very limited types that are assumed to be stolen from the mint	[04:53]
asciilifeform	eventually, the soviet denouement is that all precious metal is presumed 'stolen from mint.'	[04:54]
The20YearIRCloud	Other than that, it's pretty easy to stay quiet, and slowly sell off the horde without signfiicant attention	[04:54]
asciilifeform	other interesting thing about treasure is that, afaik, your tax liability officially begins when the shovel opens the box	[04:55]
asciilifeform	see the many stories of lotto winners who take home mazeratis and then go bankrupt	[04:55]
decimation	asciilifeform: brings to mind the play quoted by Mr. Yarvin where the kulak is found guilty of hording foreign currency in basement	[04:55]
asciilifeform	khruschev turned this into a hanging offense. retroactively.	[04:56]
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asciilifeform	(gold, rather than foreign currency, in that case, but applied across the board)	[04:56]
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The20YearIRCloud	In the us , gold hording could be jailable, but silver hording was encouraged	[04:58]
The20YearIRCloud	speaking of the 30s-50s	[04:58]
asciilifeform	silver, at the time, (and largely still today) being primarily an industrial metal - the supply was already safely corralled.	[04:58]
decimation	yeah back in the early 1900's the whole idea of the 'silver dollar' was the precursor to the modern bezzle	[04:59]
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The20YearIRCloud	Us silver coin production was astronomical	[04:59]
decimation	after 'backing' your currency with relatively worthless metal, the next logical step being to 'back' it with nothing it all	[05:00]
asciilifeform	they occasionally turn up in loose change even now.	[05:00]
decimation	silver makes excellent electrical conductors though.	[05:00]
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asciilifeform	decimation: understand why it is rarely used as such.	[05:01]
The20YearIRCloud	Right now it's about 1:10,000 in dimes, and about 1:25,000 in quarters	[05:01]
asciilifeform	(while gold is king in all fine electronics)	[05:01]
The20YearIRCloud	and around 1:1,000 from halves	[05:01]
asciilifeform	oxidation.	[05:01]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah oxidation, terrible contacts	[05:01]
decimation	gold however...	[05:01]
decimation	gold actually has worse conductance than copper, but it doesn't oxidize	[05:02]
asciilifeform	usually the absolute conductivity isn't critical. resistance to corrosion and heat conductivity - is.	[05:03]
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asciilifeform	copper plated with gold is more or less 'best of worlds'	[05:03]
The20YearIRCloud	Well, considering how little of the connection is used for the gold, it makes plenty of sense	[05:04]
decimation	ie your ENIG boards	[05:04]
The20YearIRCloud	gold connectors are usually large, so there's more conductivity (due to lower resistence)	[05:04]
asciilifeform	and everybody's.	[05:04]
The20YearIRCloud	Although theoretically silver wire with gold connectors would be the bee's knees	[05:05]
decimation	gold is also used exclusively to connect pins to chip dies if I recall correctly	[05:05]
The20YearIRCloud	That's also true	[05:05]
asciilifeform	yes	[05:05]
asciilifeform	gold also solders beautifully, because the coating remains smooth	[05:05]
The20YearIRCloud	This is of course until we discover room-temperature superconductors, then it's all off	[05:05]
The20YearIRCloud	The little bit of silver soldering I've done has been quite smooth too	[05:05]
asciilifeform	room-temperature superconductors << unless we all perish in laser pistol duels.	[05:05]
The20YearIRCloud	I just want my emdrive hovercar and hoverbike	[05:06]
decimation	The20YearIRCloud: doubtful. in most circuitry heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical, and it's hard to imagine said superconductors would be better/cheaper to fabricate than the metals we are discussing	[05:06]
The20YearIRCloud	Most of the data I'm seeing seems to support that once we reach that point, everyone gets their own airship	[05:06]
The20YearIRCloud	I'm sure that's right, but i can dream	[05:06]
asciilifeform	heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical << consider why virtually all present-day applications of low temperature superconductors is in high-strength magnets.	[05:07]
asciilifeform	because there - yes, critical.	[05:07]
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asciilifeform	room temperature supercon is a box of surprises.	[05:07]
asciilifeform	e.g., home 'mri' scanner plus some fairly simple image processing.	[05:07]
asciilifeform	result - no rich man need die from most cancers.	[05:08]
decimation	I think there are some cold superconductors used in new york to move lots of electricity through tight spaces too: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/superconductors-enter-commercial-utility-service	[05:08]
assbot	Superconductors Enter Commercial Utility Service - IEEE Spectrum	[05:08]
asciilifeform	don't shoot a man with lead and gunpowder, shoot him with pocket railgun on watch battery - classier.	[05:08]
The20YearIRCloud	we'	[05:09]
asciilifeform	(bonus: shoot with the battery)	[05:09]
The20YearIRCloud	We have been very much on the upswing concerning superconductors. 50 years ago you had to be near absolute zero, now you can do it at like -200c	[05:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00085789 = 6.4342 BTC [+]	[05:09]
asciilifeform	al schwarts published a possible recipe for room temperature supercon - afaik, it was ignored.	[05:09]
asciilifeform	(or in use by chicoms - like his certain other creations)	[05:10]
asciilifeform	(which others?	[05:10]
asciilifeform	!s eotvos	[05:10]
assbot	2 results for 'eotvos' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=eotvos	[05:11]
asciilifeform	)	[05:11]
The20YearIRCloud	is he the emdrive guy?	[05:11]
asciilifeform	no.	[05:11]
asciilifeform	his products - work.	[05:11]
The20YearIRCloud	Emdrive seems to work too	[05:11]
asciilifeform	in the sense that podkletnov's drive 'worked.'	[05:11]
asciilifeform	(emdrive, not schwartz)	[05:12]
The20YearIRCloud	It's going to JPL for testing, which is a pretty darn good sign as to it working	[05:12]
asciilifeform	as did podkletnov's, afaik.	[05:12]
The20YearIRCloud	And from the papers I've seen, it doesn't seem to be signfiicantly more different than the theory behind VASMIR, and NASA was all over that 15 years ago	[05:13]
asciilifeform	nasa is happy to fund every perpetual-motion crank on the planet - but if you're an industrial organic chemist with a history of rocking the boat - forget it.	[05:13]
asciilifeform	vasmir doesn't violate newton's 3rd.	[05:14]
The20YearIRCloud	neither does the emdrive	[05:14]
asciilifeform	if you ask any physics crank, his machines never violate physical law	[05:14]
The20YearIRCloud	and in the case of emdrive as well, it's signfiicantly more efficient than ion drives, but not absurdly so	[05:14]
asciilifeform	there's always an 'imaginary particle' involved	[05:14]
The20YearIRCloud	And it, just like ion drives, both would benefit amazingly well by room conducting superconductors	[05:14]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[05:15]
The20YearIRCloud	Like quantum entanglement?	[05:15]
asciilifeform	what classical law does it violate?	[05:15]
asciilifeform	understand, we'd all love a working perpetuum mobile or reactionless thruster.	[05:16]
The20YearIRCloud	I'd have to find the papers, but 30-40 years ago it was supposed to violate several principals	[05:16]
asciilifeform	but the folks involved with 'emdrive' have a rich history of fraud (usg and principals both)	[05:17]
The20YearIRCloud	And now, peer reviewed studies seem to come out every few months continaully supporting entanglement	[05:17]
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decimation	asciilifeform: it seems to me that an Eötvös balance would be pretty straightforward to build	[05:17]
asciilifeform	decimation: dig the log	[05:17]
asciilifeform	decimation: we came up with a setup that didn't require eotvos balance	[05:17]
The20YearIRCloud	And harold white is a con too?	[05:18]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772706	[05:18]
assbot	Logged on 27-07-2014 19:05:02; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in 2010 i concocted a variant of the test that could be carried out for approx. 50k USD, from scratch. schwartz answered that, in his estimation, the test would work to spec, but results would not be accepted by the field unless carried out on one of the two existing eotvos balances. one - adelberger's, one - chicom.	[05:18]
asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: no need to be a con man in the usual sense to acquiesce to usg SOP.	[05:19]
asciilifeform	if you want to know what test - bring schwartz out of his hidey hole, wherever it is, and ask him. he enjoys explaining it, me - it just depresses	[05:20]
decimation	But according to wikipedia, it appears that the Eötvös balance is some balls, a rod, some string, and some mirrors	[05:21]
asciilifeform	if you want the needed accuracy - it's rather more complicated.	[05:21]
decimation	okay that makes sense	[05:21]
asciilifeform	(atmosphere of controlled temperature, pressure - and, more importantly, provenance)	[05:21]
asciilifeform	concept of 'provenance' is key here	[05:21]
asciilifeform	i recall mircea_popescu even used this tale as an example in an essay	[05:21]
decimation	as in, ensuring that all of the masses can be traced to some standard, etc?	[05:22]
asciilifeform	not only standard, but as agreed upon by all pertinent professionals	[05:22]
asciilifeform	including the set that want schwartz to die in a fire	[05:22]
asciilifeform	(he nearly managed it once)	[05:22]
asciilifeform	(30+% 3rd deg. burns)	[05:23]
decimation	wow, that sucks. metrology is it's own weird little world	[05:23]
asciilifeform	if i were to sell a few extra organs, i could run the 50k variant of the experiment. and i'd go to my grave knowing that equivalence principle can be violated. but that'd be all.	[05:23]
asciilifeform	it won't: 'count.'	[05:24]
decimation	I called up NIST a few weeks ago, asked them how much it would cost to measure the phase noise of an oscillator. They said it would only cost their time, which would come to about $10k! for a morning session	[05:24]
asciilifeform	schwartz is one of the very few people i know of whose problem cannot be solved with money per se.	[05:24]
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asciilifeform	he could, potentially, upgrade to rich pariah instead of modestly wealthy pariah	[05:25]
asciilifeform	but that'd be it.	[05:25]
decimation	well, mircea's theory is that musical tastes randomly change with time & entropy, the same is true for academic fashions	[05:26]
asciilifeform	decimation: there's also other factors.	[05:27]
decimation	one wonders which forgotten scientist will be recorded by history while official science is resigned to the dustbin	[05:27]
asciilifeform	decimation: adelberger, for example, would have to perform seppuku - and all of his students, and their students	[05:27]
asciilifeform	(if schwartz were to be permitted to carry out his experiment, and obtained a positive result)	[05:28]
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asciilifeform	understand that the effect in question, even if it turns out to work as herr schwartz predicted, doesn't yield an 'antigravity jetpack'	[05:29]
asciilifeform	it exists - if exists - somewhere after the 8th decimal.	[05:29]
asciilifeform	but to even begin the kind of work it would take to 'technologize', is an investment that no one would remotely contemplate without the kind of proof that can only be obtained after his enemies were to give in.	[05:30]
decimation	yeah but it would have implications for relativity theory apparently	[05:30]
asciilifeform	or a few centuries after we've all died.	[05:30]
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decimation	'how much would you have to pay your enemies not to crush you in your moment of need'	[05:30]
asciilifeform	this, as i understand, is why schwartz never made any attempt to raise funding	[05:31]
asciilifeform	he's a clever enough fellow to understand that this would cement his already unenviable position	[05:31]
asciilifeform	regardless of the outcome of the experiment, he'd end up seen just like the fellow who opened the 'esp instutute'	[05:32]
asciilifeform	*institute	[05:32]
asciilifeform	you can't pay your enemies to die.	[05:33]
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asciilifeform	if ussr were alive, perhaps he'd have defected.	[05:33]
asciilifeform	but i suspect he'd sooner fellate his 'magnum.'	[05:33]
asciilifeform	but this is the very problem that multiple kingdoms one can defect to is the only known solution.	[05:34]
asciilifeform	see galileo & florence.	[05:34]
asciilifeform	but they have to be actual sovereign kingdoms - not muppet shows.	[05:34]
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asciilifeform	and - they have to give a damn.	[05:35]
decimation	yeah this connects with our discussion the other day about the collapse of the ussr being terrible for usg	[05:36]
asciilifeform	if i were, e.g, mircea_popescu, and gave a damn, i'd offer schwartz xxxx btc. half to show up here, half after he explains himself.	[05:36]
asciilifeform	but poor s. apparently went 'full perelman mode' and doesn't write back any more.	[05:37]
asciilifeform	(how to know that schwartz (or taleb, or...) collects 'prize' rather than usg stooge with a shannonizer and irc connection - exercise for alert reader.)	[05:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29650 @ 0.00085641 = 25.3926 BTC [-] {2}	[05:38]
asciilifeform	the most i can offer to interested readers is repeat of mircea_popescu's algorithm 'have sex - with people, do business - with keys.'	[05:38]
decimation	“I don't even have an E-mail address. I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive messages,” Eco said at a party in his honor at the University Club of Chicago.	[05:38]
decimation	http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/06/26/of-eco-and-e-mail	[05:38]
assbot	Of Eco And E-mail - The New Yorker	[05:38]
asciilifeform	this is called perelman mode.	[05:38]
asciilifeform	partial, if you like. full perelman is when you haven't a post address either.	[05:39]
asciilifeform	!s perelman	[05:39]
assbot	3 results for 'perelman' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=perelman	[05:39]
decimation	perelman turned down the fields medal right?	[05:39]
asciilifeform	not only.	[05:39]
asciilifeform	he also turned down, if i recall, government pensions, interviews with journawhores, all of it.	[05:40]
asciilifeform	lives somewhere in russian north, among the trees.	[05:40]
asciilifeform	go find him.	[05:40]
decimation	probably with these folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_People:_A_Year_in_the_Taiga	[05:40]
assbot	Happy People: A Year in the Taiga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[05:40]
asciilifeform	if he's feeling charitable, he might leave archaeologists a box of notebooks the ants won't eat.	[05:41]
asciilifeform	(as, e.g, k. f. gauss did)	[05:41]
asciilifeform	for all we know - perelman was eaten by local fauna, or fellated his nagant	[05:42]
asciilifeform	but once in a while you hear that some busybody found him and told 'fuck off, can't answer for your safety if i see you again.'	[05:43]
decimation	it seems very few extreme math geniuses find this world a 'habitable' place	[05:43]
asciilifeform	perelman had the unfortunate combination of math and iron balls. he would not 'play ball'.	[05:44]
The20YearIRCloud	who is eco again?	[05:44]
decimation	another way of looking at it: he's decided to hold 'allodial title' over his mind, the only place that is really possible in this world for mere humans	[05:44]
asciilifeform	umberto eco.	[05:44]
asciilifeform	decimation: this.	[05:44]
decimation	he wrote 'the name of the rose' among other things, ascii quotes it from time to time	[05:45]
The20YearIRCloud	i've been off reading physics articles trying to grasp things and lost the conversation	[05:45]
asciilifeform	decimation: the only work of that man i found readable	[05:45]
asciilifeform	as i understand - he caught a memetic virus - 'postmodernism' - and might as well have contracted 'mad cow'.	[05:46]
asciilifeform	(eco, not perelman)	[05:46]
asciilifeform	same thing happened to russian mega-author v. pelevin	[05:46]
asciilifeform	the action of the 'virus' was evident in his early work, but it got worse.	[05:47]
decimation	it is probably terrible to become an object of some fad among elites today	[05:47]
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asciilifeform	decimation: eco, pelevin, others - were clever chaps; understood that if you suck cock, you become a cock-sucker, even if 'your heart isn't in it' at first	[05:47]
asciilifeform	schneier, i'm certain, understood	[05:48]
asciilifeform	can carry on the list, but why.	[05:48]
asciilifeform	we can all write the list.	[05:48]
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decimation	probably the only real defense is to go 'full perelman'	[05:49]
asciilifeform	less of a defense and more like slow-motion seppuku	[05:49]
asciilifeform	this, incidentally, is how science dies.	[05:50]
The20YearIRCloud	because of the gubberment?	[05:50]
asciilifeform	http://yarchive.net/physics/effete.html	[05:50]
asciilifeform	nah.	[05:50]
assbot	Becoming effete (Steven B. Harris)	[05:50]
asciilifeform	usg 'science' is - scar tissue.	[05:51]
decimation	'this' being that 'science' becomes inhabitable for non-fraudulent scientists?	[05:51]
asciilifeform	aye.	[05:51]
decimation	I mean un-inhabitable	[05:51]
asciilifeform	right	[05:51]
The20YearIRCloud	so where do they go?	[05:52]
asciilifeform	civilizations senesce and die - like people.	[05:52]
asciilifeform	this is possibly the best-known fact about them.	[05:53]
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decimation	that's a good-quality usenet rant	[05:54]
asciilifeform	lots more where it came from.	[05:55]
The20YearIRCloud	lol	[05:56]
The20YearIRCloud	i'm trying to catch up and understand :D	[05:56]
The20YearIRCloud	Darn my lack of understanding	[05:56]
decimation	!s professor salary	[05:56]
assbot	1 results for 'professor salary' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=professor+salary	[05:56]
decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2014#451059	[05:57]
assbot	Logged on 21-01-2014 01:57:20; decimation: ?In 1890, professors salaries [at Amherst College] were $ 2,500, more than twenty times tuition. The step up from laborer to professor was immense, for the average wage earner in 1890 earned $425 a year. ?	[05:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13559 @ 0.00085789 = 11.6321 BTC [+]	[05:57]
decimation	that explains some of the problem: the egalitarian mind-virus	[05:57]
asciilifeform	decimation: can't fix with money. soviet professors rolled in cash (compared to most other occupations.) this just attracts poseurs.	[05:57]
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asciilifeform	(just as you can't fix, e.g., old age, with money - here's another 'yarchive' nugget - http://yarchive.net/med/conspiracies.html)	[05:58]
assbot	404 Not Found	[05:58]
asciilifeform	go to hell, arsebot, it's 'found'	[05:59]
asciilifeform	point being - we don't know how to repair broken cultures. the best we know - is how to help them die.	[05:59]
asciilifeform	re: professors:	[06:00]
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asciilifeform	consider if you were to offer $maxint for antigrav device.	[06:00]
asciilifeform	all the money in the world won't conjure into existence 'the rabbit out of a hat, unless said rabbit is already in the hat'	[06:01]
asciilifeform	at least, not on a time scale you could put up with.	[06:01]
decimation	yeah that's a good point. I think the money is less important than the relative status, which is less important than just getting people to defer to their betters quickly	[06:01]
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asciilifeform	decimation: reward with status - get usg academics.	[06:03]
asciilifeform	you get what you optimize for - plus exhaust.	[06:03]
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asciilifeform	there is probably a 'perelman' within driving distance of where you (any you) live. but he's almost certainly surrendered and sucking state cock (and perelman no longer) - or is occupied with the minutiae of physical survival	[06:07]
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asciilifeform	BingoBoingo, perhaps, is working on the problem of building a hard disk that survives several centuries of exposure in the wilderness	[06:08]
asciilifeform	and if he isn't, he should be	[06:08]
decimation	etch binary on rocks?	[06:08]
asciilifeform	latency's killer.	[06:09]
decimation	heh	[06:09]
asciilifeform	state of the art is probably (cloth-based) paper under inert gas.	[06:09]
decimation	asciilifeform: does your nexus 10 provide reasonably close 'paper-like' screen presentation?	[06:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: i trim all the border whitespace and get approx. the same 'paper' size as the original document	[06:11]
asciilifeform	so in that sense yes	[06:11]
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asciilifeform	(as if this needed repeating - but for completeness - don't keep sensitive non-public material on 'nexus' or similar machine.)	[06:12]
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decimation	assuming 1 inch margins that sounds about right	[06:12]
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decimation	encrypted blobs are probably okay	[06:13]
decimation	no keys though	[06:13]
asciilifeform	solely ones you'd consent to have transmitted by radio across the planet	[06:13]
decimation	right.	[06:13]
asciilifeform	it is - a toy.	[06:14]
*	asciilifeform owns a number of toys, like other people	[06:14]
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The20YearIRCloud	Did I tell you guys that the bank approved the series of loans for RentalStarter?	[06:14]
decimation	do you have any non-toy computers aside from your symbolics machines?	[06:14]
asciilifeform	depends how you cut it	[06:14]
decimation	good job The20YearIRCloud!	[06:14]
The20YearIRCloud	Big thing is the terms were superior to what I expected, 5% vs 7%, and the ability to do 20yr fixed payback vs 15yr payback or adjustable rates	[06:15]
*	asciilifeform organizes machines similarly to mircea_popescu	[06:15]
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asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: almost certain that, given this, it doing anything but sitting on btc is a loss	[06:17]
The20YearIRCloud	as in not utilizing available capital>	[06:18]
asciilifeform	as in utilizing, to buy coin.	[06:18]
decimation	that's true, if btc is going to succeed, it is inevitable that it goes up several orders of magnitude in dollar price	[06:18]
The20YearIRCloud	Yeah	[06:18]
asciilifeform	someone (mircea_popescu?) suggested that, for so long as fiat long-term credit is available to anyone, this'll be the bullet that keeps killing it until dead.	[06:18]
The20YearIRCloud	Which is worrysome to me, but then I do have an auto-buy going through on a regular basis, so i'm trying to diversify in multiple methods - Bitcoin, USD, Silver/Gold/Coins , guns, real estate	[06:19]
The20YearIRCloud	hopefully between all that I'll personally be OK, but as far as the business is concerned, till bitcoin is a national currency and most workers get paid in it, it's gonna be hard for us to get truly involved in the BTC economy	[06:20]
decimation	The20YearIRCloud: sounds reasonable. real financial lending will not take place in bitcoin until it becomes the 'new currency'	[06:21]
The20YearIRCloud	And it's hard to judge when that will be, otherwise I do believe our model hedges well against USD collapse, and any major problems, while building enough capital and assets, should we have another downturn that we will be able to severely profit from it	[06:21]
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peterl	The20YearIRCloud: so now you get to hold onto bitcoins and use loans to buy houses?	[06:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00086132 = 16.0636 BTC [+]	[06:37]
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ben_vulpes	!t h rent	[07:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00399999 / 0.00402843 / 0.00423999 (204 shares, 0.82179956 BTC), 7D: 0.00320001 / 0.00370607 / 0.00465000 (3085 shares, 11.43322802 BTC), 30D: 0.00320001 / 0.00402198 / 0.00478000 (9915 shares, 39.87789938 BTC)	[07:01]
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mircea_popescu	wow i step out for one hour...	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	!up Curious_George	[07:27]
-assbot-	You voiced Curious_George for 30 minutes.	[07:27]
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Curious_George	sup	[07:27]
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mircea_popescu	nothing much.	[07:28]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: kanzure: nah, those're plain old ruins <<< and this you know how ? :D	[07:30]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud: With regards to coins, you only need to avoid the very, very limited types that are assumed to be stolen from the mint << it's only limited for now, and as a reflection of the coins actually physically found so far. as more juicy morcels make the beast salivate, they'll become less limited.	[07:32]
mircea_popescu	decimation: yeah back in the early 1900's the whole idea of the 'silver dollar' was the precursor to the modern bezzle << not so clear cut, really. more like a power struggle between west and east.	[07:34]
decimation	mircea_popescu: that's true, in that case the eastern bankers were all in favor of gold (as they didn't envision some gov't bank would be able to print infinite silver)	[07:34]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, all the "buitres" scandal in argentina today is exactly reminiscent of midwestern and californian pro-silver aggitation in the 1880s	[07:35]
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mircea_popescu	specifically, the "foreign interest" was putting forth gold standard to fleece the "hard working" "real" americans.	[07:35]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: there's always an 'imaginary particle' involved <<< in phairness, this is how physics works all through.	[07:38]
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mircea_popescu	decimation: okay that makes sense << what he means by provenance being that if you measure in argon and he measures in xenon, it's not directly obvious what the functions look like to verify if you got the same result and quantify the eventual differences.	[07:41]
mircea_popescu	decimation: I called up NIST a few weeks ago, asked them how much it would cost to measure the phase noise of an oscillator. They said it would only cost their time, which would come to about $10k! for a morning session <<< in other words, "can only work if you have supply of bezzle dollars", ie, "only with scrip saying it's ok signed by stalin"	[07:42]
decimation	yeah that sounds about right	[07:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: if ussr were alive, perhaps he'd have defected. << a fine example of why the "one world, one fuhrer" delusion of government is unproductive.	[07:45]
mircea_popescu	ah look, he says so the next line himself :p	[07:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: (how to know that schwartz (or taleb, or...) collects 'prize' rather than usg stooge with a shannonizer and irc connection - exercise for alert reader.) <<< if you recall something sort-of like that was tried, except this "major prize" approach is flawed as you explain. so, better version was tried :)	[07:47]
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decimation	heh "The city voters—especially German Americans—overwhelmingly rejected the free-silver cause out of conviction that it would lead to economic disaster, unemployment, and higher prices. The diversified farmers of the Midwest and East opposed it as well, but the cotton farmers in the South and the wheat farmers in the West were enthusiastic for free silver. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_silver	[07:55]
assbot	Free silver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[07:55]
decimation	yet another reason why the germans in the us had to be de-kulaked	[07:56]
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asciilifeform	plain old ruins << re: the ones pictured in linked blog. though surprising quantities of goodies in some.	[08:38]
asciilifeform	better version was tried << gurlz pulsating on camera ?	[08:40]
asciilifeform	or was there another 'try'	[08:40]
asciilifeform	re: provenance & physics thread - anyone unfamiliar with the story of blondlot and 'n-rays' is invited to read about it.	[08:44]
asciilifeform	(for nontechnical types, klotz's 'diamond dealers and feather merchants' has an excellent basic account.)	[08:45]
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asciilifeform	'free silver' << the fiat camel's nose in the american tent. not sure how to avoid this conclusion.	[08:47]
[]bot	Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/ Odds: 43(Y):57(N) by coin, 43(Y):57(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.13075596 BTC. Current weight: 99,516.	[08:49]
asciilifeform	I don't know that they can be built << lol, anything that was built, can be built.	[08:51]
asciilifeform	provenance << isn't about the differing principle of the proposed tester. it's about the fact experiment doesn't count if carried out wholly on apparatus constructed by a 'non-disinterested' party	[08:58]
asciilifeform	and will never be replicated on a 'disinterested' apparatus because this means essentially all practicing 'physicists' get blondlot-ed.	[08:58]
asciilifeform	this story concerned more than a quarrel between a weirdo chemist and the whole of usg/nato 'physics'	[09:01]
asciilifeform	it's really a typical death-rattle of the civilization.	[09:01]
asciilifeform	there isn't, as far as i understand, a 'fix'.	[09:02]
asciilifeform	perhaps intelligent roaches or marmosets will carry out 'schwartz's' experiment after we're through.	[09:02]
decimation	asciilifeform: is the death-rattle the gridlock caused by bureaucracy replacing science?	[09:04]
asciilifeform	don't blame the murder on the maggots.	[09:04]
asciilifeform	they just happen to eat corpses, it's in their job description.	[09:04]
asciilifeform	there's not a 'ready-canned' answer for why rome bit it	[09:05]
asciilifeform	why expect one - for us.	[09:05]
asciilifeform	but to attribute death to the graveworms - is a mistake.	[09:05]
decimation	decay from 'rule by men to the bureaucratic state was definitely on the list	[09:06]
asciilifeform	symptom.	[09:06]
asciilifeform	(of what? if we knew, there'd be at least a hypothetical pill.)	[09:06]
asciilifeform	thus far all we know is that civilizations behave like ms-winblows boxes - encrusts with turdolade until grinds to a halt, then reboot.	[09:08]
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RagnarDanneskjol	what do you assume to be the root cause ascii? (besides societal mental atrophy)	[09:09]
decimation	heh turdolade. yeah I guess the bureaucracy really exploded with Diocletian, but things had already been going badly for at least a hundred years	[09:09]
asciilifeform	RagnarDanneskjol: i don't regard it as a proven fact that there necessarily is a 'root cause.'	[09:10]
decimation	plus the chinese bureaucracy lasted for hundreds of years per reboot cycle	[09:10]
RagnarDanneskjol	well there must be some likely culprits	[09:10]
asciilifeform	institutions of every kind decay in well-documented ways.	[09:11]
decimation	one answer: wealth and power sow the seeds of their own destruction, in the avarice and sloth of the new generations	[09:11]
asciilifeform	eventually immune system collapses, the proverbial 'eastern hordes water their horses in the rhine.'	[09:12]
decimation	another answer: when power is passed to the new generation, it tends to be divided rather than concentrated - in the end the franchise is extended to every human and his dog, and no one is really in charge	[09:13]
decimation	mongol hordes appear on the border - giving not one wit about the current power structure - and pillage as they see fit	[09:14]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i really don't think its as political as all that.	[09:15]
asciilifeform	to stretch the metaphor a bit, sometimes the moribund get a stay of execution, when the horde grows terminally fat before it can reach the capital.	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	decimation basically, it was a new immigrant vs old immigrant debate. the old guys had savings and wanted to keep them. the new guys had mortgages and wanted to get rid of them.	[09:16]
asciilifeform	!s harpagon	[09:16]
assbot	2 results for 'harpagon' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=harpagon	[09:16]
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mircea_popescu	no but srsly, i can see perfectly valid reasons to not trust measurements made by new guys on new tools.	[09:17]
asciilifeform	very.	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, recall the story of the milikan pious fraud i think it was ?	[09:17]
asciilifeform	this is why the tale should terrify people	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	where the original measurement was wildly wrong,	[09:17]
asciilifeform	because it's about death.	[09:17]
asciilifeform	yes, that.	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	and the subsequent ones didn't spread out but converged ?	[09:17]
asciilifeform	correct.	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	right. this was accidental, not the result of conspiraci, ie, political organising.	[09:17]
asciilifeform	no organization in the usual sense needed.	[09:18]
asciilifeform	forget who - used term 'prospiracy'	[09:18]
asciilifeform	like,	[09:19]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#814531	[09:19]
assbot	Logged on 29-08-2014 05:11:06; decimation: the thing is, Admiral McCain probably didn't have to issue any special instructions to 'finesse' the investigation, the investigators probably all thought it would be a brilliant plan	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	(of what? if we knew, there'd be at least a hypothetical pill.) << the public appetite for personal humiliation decays, and with it, the possibility of life.	[09:19]
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asciilifeform	thing is, nobody cancelled appetite for, e.g, death - 'mortido!'	[09:20]
asciilifeform	but not channelled usefully.	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	that seems to me a hollow analogy.	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	there really isn't a "counterbalance" to libiod.	[09:20]
asciilifeform	appetite for humiliation, i.e. risk ?	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	(something needs to push rocks up in the air, and the space station too. what's needed to push them down ?)	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform consider the life and deeds of gabrielle, a buxom blonde girl.	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	when she's 16, she runs out of school (for which she risks a reprimand) and hides behind the bleachers to... kiss (for which she risks quite a lot of societal shunning)	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	when she's 36 she follows the workplace rules.	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	her appetite for humiliation has dwindled.	[09:22]
asciilifeform	appetite - or opportunity.	[09:23]
mircea_popescu	she is a "wiser woman" now. happily married now. at her place in life now. well...	[09:23]
asciilifeform	aha empty carapace	[09:23]
*	asciilifeform spotted a cicada in garden today, and thought of mircea_popescu's post about parenting	[09:23]
mircea_popescu	society in general and civilisation in particular is predicated on making sense of the world, which readily reduces to avoiding being humiliated. this is fine and dandy until it actually works.	[09:24]
mircea_popescu	but if you ever wondered why towards the end of an epoch art moves from classical to trollage... well... art is a sort of societal immune system.	[09:25]
asciilifeform	i always use the term 'calmed down' for these people. starting from having played 'half life', where there is a scene of an einsteinesque white coated figure who gets an alien 'headcrab' jump on his head. it takes roots, he struggles for a while, then 'calms down' and ambles on as zombie.	[09:25]
mircea_popescu	except the crab doesn't go on the head	[09:25]
mircea_popescu	more like, on the cunt.	[09:25]
asciilifeform	lol	[09:25]
*	assbot gives voice to xmj	[09:25]
xmj	moin.	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6738/33213654.183/0_a1ede_331c5f32_L.jpg << i like this one	[09:27]
asciilifeform	lol, still on the trolley even.	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	http://www.janesoceania.com/oceania_cult/Cargocultplane.jpg compareand contrast.	[09:28]
decimation	is that a V1?	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	there's no distinguishing sufficiently advanced tech from magic, nor sufficiently decayed tech from faith.	[09:29]
asciilifeform	!b 1	[09:29]
assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0HCR5DM.txt )	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	decimation nah, soviet hardware	[09:31]
mircea_popescu	http://lana-sator.livejournal.com/209537.html	[09:31]
assbot	, , , ... 18+ - ""	[09:31]
xmj	I think my brain just snowcrashed.	[09:31]
asciilifeform	obligatory:	[09:32]
asciilifeform	'We understand automobiles. There are no homeopathic automobile repair shops, that try to repair your car by putting inﬁnitesimal dilutions of rust in the gas tank. There are no automotive faith healers, who lay their hands on the hood and pray. People reserve such superstitions for things that they don’t understand very well, such as the human body… … Superstitions arise because we don’t understand. I	[09:32]
asciilifeform	f this trend continues, we may soon see homeopathic computer repair. Perhaps it will consist of adding a virus to a program, deleting the virus, and then running the program. You may soon be able to take your laptop to a faith healer, who will lay his hands on the keyboard and pray for the recovery of the operating system. Is this the future of computing? Or can we instead build on the idea that a computer progr	[09:32]
asciilifeform	am is a mathematical object that can be understood through logic?'	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	xmj how's that go ?	[09:32]
asciilifeform	-- lamport's 'The Future of Computing: Logic or Biology?'	[09:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: linked post reveals that rocket is a 'size and mass model' (i.e. dummy.)	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i can attest the faith healing already happens, in those sad sad caves where middle aged women huddle to stroke their collective pretending to be part of civilisation.	[09:33]
asciilifeform	happens also at computer shops, yes	[09:34]
asciilifeform	or perhaps you meant those.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	govt offices, newspaper offices, phone pharms, i seen it everwhere.	[09:35]
asciilifeform	'Внутри более сохранившегося командного пункта разрушения изрядные, а обстановка мрачная - кто-то разодрал аппаратуру и жег кабели прямо на месте, отчего стены и потолки покрыты копотью'	[09:35]
mircea_popescu	knew a camwhore who slept with her laptop because the one time she didn't it felt snubbed and wouldn't work right the whole day.	[09:35]
decimation	except I was reading Dijkstra in "structured programming" and he wrote that it was hopeless to try to "prove" practical code. He did suggest that this is a reason for humility and simplicity.	[09:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00086242 = 14.3162 BTC [+]	[09:36]
asciilifeform	'in the better-preserved command post the destruction is substantial, and the atmosphere morose - someone tore apart the machinery, and burned the cables right where they lay - from which the walls and ceiling were covered in soot.'	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud: i've been off reading physics articles trying to grasp things and lost the conversation << should probably be the motto of b-a	[09:36]
asciilifeform	why burned cables? i can say right now. copper dealer doesn't pay for rubber - only copper.	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	obviously thieves yea	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	decimation for simplicity at any rate.	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	decimation: it is probably terrible to become an object of some fad among elites today << you know, i'm a poststructuralist jus' fine.	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	is it evident ?	[09:37]
asciilifeform	decimation: who listened to dijkstra. academics - good joke. programmers - ha.	[09:37]
decimation	reminds me of teufelsberg: http://www.abandonedberlin.com/2010/06/teufelsberg-abandoned-spy-station.html	[09:38]
assbot	Teufelsberg (Abandoned spy station) \| Abandoned Berlin	[09:38]
mircea_popescu	decimation: yeah that's a good point. I think the money is less important than the relative status, which is less important than just getting people to defer to their betters quickly << no, not quickly. painfully.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	that's the point there.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	the "no pain, no gain" equation holds all sorts of critical, unexpected applications.	[09:42]
xmj	mircea_popescu: slept ~17h tonight. slept most of yesterday... (well, powernaps in IST airport and plane)	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	maybe it's the tse tse	[09:42]
decimation	mircea_popescu: hormesis: "it's okay for you (and society)" http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/220309.php	[09:44]
assbot	High Altitude Boosts Longevity And Reduces Risk Of Dying Of Ischemic Heart Disease - Medical News Today	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	"In one of the most comprehensive studies of its kind, researchers at the University of Colorado School of Medicine in partnership with the Harvard School of Global Health have found that people living at higher altitudes have a lower chance of dying from ischemic heart disease and tend to live longer than others."	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	"experiment" studies people who already did live there. helpful o.O	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	in other news, people living in africa get less sunstroke.	[09:45]
asciilifeform	!s married grow taller	[09:45]
assbot	1 results for 'married grow taller' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=married+grow+taller	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	"We all act as though we're immortal until we get sick, and then we	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	want the cure now! And when we don't get it, we look for a witch to	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	blame, because witch-hunting is something the human brain does	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	naturally. Certainly it naturally sucks at doing science; much	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	unnatural training is required for that. But gossiping and	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	witch-finding and crime-solving and conspiracy-theories -- that really	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	gets the heart going. I see it has yours going, when the science was	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	really boring! Which is to you say, you're a typical human female."	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	ouch.	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	the typical woman female being ariana huffington.	[09:47]
decimation	interestingly the western states that are bathed in radiation from the sun & uranium from the ground have the lowest cancer rates (yes there are confounders) http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/data/state.htm	[09:47]
assbot	CDC - Cancer - Data and Statistics - Cancer Rates by State	[09:47]
xmj	Women.	[09:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12595 @ 0.00086242 = 10.8622 BTC [+]	[09:48]
asciilifeform	http://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/haematique/album/150002/view/663491 << lol at double-stencil	[09:48]
assbot	.	[09:48]
xmj	To me, science comes naturally.	[09:48]
xmj	But then..	[09:48]
xmj	http://www.iancommunity.org/cs/understanding_research/extreme_male_brain	[09:48]
assbot	The "Extreme Male Brain": An Explanation for Autism? \| Interactive Autism Network	[09:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22255 @ 0.00085578 = 19.0454 BTC [-] {2}	[09:49]
asciilifeform	we all like to laugh at 'witch hunt' except - we have witches. who you gonna call.	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	To me, science comes naturally. << know anyone who actually is of this opinion ?	[09:50]
xmj	A great many friends, yes	[09:52]
xmj	all on the autistic spectrum	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	well, any of them actual scientists ?	[09:53]
mircea_popescu	not aspiring, scientists-in-training, etc.	[09:53]
xmj	most entrepreneurs	[09:53]
mircea_popescu	yeah, well, maybe you shouldn't trust that too far then.	[09:54]
xmj	yeah, well, maybe you have no idea what you're talking about :)	[09:54]
mircea_popescu	how;s that work ?	[09:54]
xmj	entrepreneurship pays more than research (postgrad) positions	[09:55]
asciilifeform	what it even means, 'it comes naturally'	[09:55]
asciilifeform	for instance, shitting comes naturally	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	science comes easy to you according to yourself, some friends that are into business and this is somehow my problem ?	[09:55]
asciilifeform	most people, if well fed, will produce the requisite pile of shit with very little active work on their part.	[09:55]
xmj	you do not get it.	[09:55]
asciilifeform	this means - comes naturally.	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	yes, not getting "it" comes naturally to me.	[09:55]
asciilifeform	xmj: so what kind of pile you produce?	[09:55]
asciilifeform	sleep - also comes naturally.	[09:57]
*	asciilifeform off to comes naturally	[09:57]
*	decimation agrees, follows suit	[09:58]
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xmj	note to self, ignore mircea_popescu on most any discussions as unhelpful	[10:01]
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mircea_popescu	im very helpful according to most people i know! HELPING COMES NATURALLY TO ME	[10:18]
*	RagnarDanneskjol wonders why help is expected during the course of normal discussion	[10:19]
RagnarDanneskjol	http://topr.online.ucf.edu/index.php/Setting_Discussion_Expectations	[10:19]
assbot	Setting Discussion Expectations - Pedagogical Repository	[10:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11850 @ 0.00085634 = 10.1476 BTC [+]	[10:33]
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RagnarDanneskjol	https://people.csail.mit.edu/nickolai/papers/vandenhooff-versum.pdf	[10:41]
RagnarDanneskjol	(VerSum: Verifiable Computations over Large Public Logs)	[10:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00086491 = 9.2545 BTC [+] {2}	[10:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5350 @ 0.00085962 = 4.599 BTC [-]	[12:21]
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chetty	My dear,How are you? i am a banker in the bank, i get your contact from yahoo terrorist search.Reason,i am in need of your help as a foreigner i want to transfer an abandoned $15million to your account 40% for you while 60% for me please indicate your interest for more detail.	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	lol moving up in the world.	[12:34]
chetty	cheeky, starting off with my dear :P	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	i think someone put "my dear" for "hello" in some sort of 1970s azn manual of english	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	it's suspiciously too common.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	britishism	[12:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00085489 = 15.6445 BTC [-] {2}	[12:39]
chetty	http://www.ruv.is/frett/fresh-eruption-north-of-bardarbunga-video	[12:46]
assbot	Fresh eruption north of Bardarbunga -video \| RV	[12:46]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15498 @ 0.00085352 = 13.2279 BTC [-]	[13:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2852 @ 0.00085268 = 2.4318 BTC [-]	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	hot stuff.	[13:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2000 @ 0.00054999 = 1.1 BTC [+] {2}	[14:25]
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mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[14:37]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 491.48, Best ask: 492.99, Bid-ask spread: 1.51000, Last trade: 493.01, 24 hour volume: 5792.89372358, 24 hour low: 484.95, 24 hour high: 505.12, 24 hour vwap: 496.502818151	[14:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4112 @ 0.00085861 = 3.5306 BTC [+]	[15:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00086174 = 25.5075 BTC [+] {2}	[15:40]
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penguirker	New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/minigame-smg-august-2014-statement/	[15:49]
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*	ethX is now known as eth2	[16:27]
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kakobrekla	dense log. nice.	[16:29]
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*	rajaniemi.freenode.net gives voice to Naphex	[16:44]
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mircea_popescu	stop being unhelpful kako :D	[17:29]
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