Forum logs for 29 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
pete_dushenski [00:00]
assbot Автор теории «черного лебедя» назвал причины для инвестиций в Россию :: Бизнес :: РБК ... ( ) [00:00]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: is rms hawking these turds himself ? cui bono from this misdirection ? [00:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> pete_dushenski: i suspect that it is a js thing << look at the page source. no js, just a href anchors. [00:01]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: you are still thinking of rms as a self-aware creature, having a thought process [00:01]
asciilifeform i am no longer sure that this is true. [00:01]
pete_dushenski perhaps so eh [00:02]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Perhaps he has become a lichen as he aged. Half man half malassezia since the toe jam incident. [00:13]
punkman are there any alt-RMSes? [00:25]
asciilifeform wtf would that even mean ? [00:27]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski: when confronted with the idea that his life's work is an utter failure, man tends to wander into some very peculiar corners. [00:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.0005826 = 2.2139 BTC [+] [00:32]
punkman asciilifeform: wtf would that even mean ? << other crazy fsf people that want to be rms [00:35]
pete_dushenski in other cultural news, [00:35]
assbot Jean-Marie Le Pen on Twitter: "Si j’étais américain, je voterais Donald TRUMP… Mais que Dieu le protège !" ... ( ) [00:35]
asciilifeform punkman: you cannot 'be rms' without the history [00:35]
asciilifeform it is pretty much all he has. [00:35]
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asciilifeform << aaaaaaaand apparently i am not the only one to notice. [00:37]
assbot [Trisquel-users] X60 Libreboot Trisquel 7 Overheating ... ( ) [00:37]
punkman what, the history of "utter failure" [00:37]
asciilifeform punkman: the history of emacs and gcc [00:37]
asciilifeform and the miscellaneous (e.g., ai lab) legends. [00:37]
asciilifeform etc. [00:37]
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mircea_popescu !up DicePower [00:51]
-assbot- You voiced DicePower for 30 minutes. [00:51]
* assbot gives voice to DicePower [00:51]
mircea_popescu you can voice yourself by pm-ing !v to assbot [00:51]
DicePower Ahh okay, thought I had to decode that hash thing. [00:52]
DicePower (which didn't work for some reason) [00:52]
mircea_popescu you will, yes. [00:52]
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asciilifeform << cargocult idiots. [00:57]
asciilifeform flea as in fleadom. [00:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you use tghe wifi ? [00:59]
asciilifeform i threw the intel wifi in the trash and installed atheros. [00:59]
asciilifeform but yes, i use it. [00:59]
asciilifeform its a motherfucking laptop. [00:59]
mircea_popescu ah right [01:00]
asciilifeform and i own an ir thermometer. [01:00]
asciilifeform and fucking hate idiots. [01:00]
mircea_popescu maybe i'm thick, but... [01:01]
asciilifeform the original card heats, yes. new - no. [01:03]
mircea_popescu ah [01:03]
asciilifeform plus there is apparently no remnant of doubt that coreboot (aka linuxbios) does not properly handle the variable cpu clock thing, nor the fan controller [01:04]
asciilifeform and people just live with this. [01:04]
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asciilifeform phun phakt, the x60's original bios has 'computrace' infection, though this is mentioned nowhere in the docs, nor in the original 'bios setup' (normally, they do.) [01:08]
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phf most of the time i spent setting up linux on macbook pro was tracing and eliminating overheating problems [01:09]
asciilifeform eliminated how ? [01:09]
phf cargoculting /proc and disabling almost everything. on mbp issue is mostly with discrete ATI card [01:11]
asciilifeform 'almost everything' being, e.g., what ? [01:11]
mircea_popescu what's cargoculting ? [01:12]
phf ati card, bus that it sits on, wifi, sd card slot, firewire slot, hdmi, bus that those sit on [01:12]
asciilifeform phf: what is even the point? why not throw whole thing in the trash ? [01:12]
asciilifeform what is the use of the box without these parts ? [01:13]
phf manually forcing cpu to run in save as much battery mode [01:13]
asciilifeform ick [01:13]
asciilifeform go and gentoo on that. [01:13]
asciilifeform what rubbish. [01:13]
phf well, that's why i'm back on mac os x in defeat [01:13]
phf i gave up because integrated intel card and ati card combination required some fancy grub PEEK/POKE combination, and i didn't want to do grub [01:14]
asciilifeform i would have said 'there is a less atrocious machine, the legendary x60' but now i WON'T ... [01:14]
phf oddly enough doing that same PEEK/POKE after the linux framebuffer kicked in would blankscreen the machine. [01:14]
asciilifeform dual gpu boxes will never work, don't even bother. [01:15]
phf i'd probably persevere but it was interfering with my work, only so much you can do with cli emacs, without a proper browser [01:16]
phf mircea_popescu: extreme case of "tom knight and the lisp machine", doing things with no understanding hoping to produce desired effect [01:17]
asciilifeform at some point (not any time soon, i've elementarily no time) i will replace the thermal paste in the x60 with industrial diamond [01:17]
asciilifeform it often helps. [01:17]
asciilifeform but srsly wtf. [01:18]
phf i have a borrowed carbon x1 that i'm hoping to make use of. guy was running ubuntu on it, and clean slackware install at the very least doesn't exhibit particularly aberrant behaviors [01:19]
phf but the whole exercise feels a bit hair shirt [01:20]
asciilifeform i draw the line at 'randomly crashes during compiles' [01:21]
asciilifeform this is not tolerable. [01:22]
phf maybe i can get away with running 10.9 for the next five years at which point b-a will have its own scheme-81 clean room, yeah? [01:22]
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asciilifeform woah that thing runs at 80c. [01:24]
asciilifeform (at 50% cpu utilization) [01:24]
phf well, yeah, all those hoops i jumped through, compiling anything non-trivial would kick in fans at 60000 [01:24]
asciilifeform at least your fans ~work~ [01:24]
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phf ahaha [01:24]
phf i see [01:24]
asciilifeform libreboot just sort of runs it at mid-rpm at all times. [01:24]
asciilifeform and hopes for the best. [01:24]
asciilifeform this immediately tells me something about the authors [01:25]
asciilifeform namely, that they do not actually use linux (i.e. gentoo) on their boxes [01:25]
asciilifeform or the idiocy would have become immediately apparent [01:25]
asciilifeform as it dies in the first 20 min. of setup, during the very first compiles [01:25]
asciilifeform l0l and randomly looking for this, found something that could be straight out of mircea_popescu's zoo, [01:28]
asciilifeform [01:28]
assbot Hello | ... ( ) [01:28]
asciilifeform 'My laptop is a Thinkpad x60 running the LibreBoot bios and Debian GNU/Linux, it overheats alot, especially when viewing Star Trek outtakes of Captain Picard. It survives though, even at 90 Celsius... It should die, but it's strong.' [01:28]
asciilifeform 'Basically I've accepted a life without physical friends, except family.' [01:28]
phf ahaha [01:28]
pete_dushenski << kim jong furry [01:29]
assbot ... ( ) [01:29]
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asciilifeform << l0ltr0n [01:33]
assbot MacOS is the new Windows | Hacker News ... ( ) [01:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3196 @ 0.00058001 = 1.8537 BTC [-] [01:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27204 @ 0.00057916 = 15.7555 BTC [-] [01:51]
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mircea_popescu and in other news, [02:52]
assbot ... ( ) [02:52]
* BingoBoingo relishes in that feeing of power that follows one's presence ending a turf war. [02:58]
BingoBoingo the turf, one well lit front yard. The combatants a vocal orange neighborhood cat and a fox [03:00]
BingoBoingo I go out front to see what the fuss is and the cat shoots out of the tree and under a car while the fox shoots off into a the park [03:01]
phf BingoBoingo sets own yard on fire to settle a long running dispute between cat and fox in favor of man [03:03]
BingoBoingo Nah, just smoke a cigarette and pissed on some bushes [03:04]
BingoBoingo They gotta understand that when man can mark territory with their weight in piss it is man's world. [03:06]
phf i'm always reminded of that movie where i guy was living among wolves, every morning he'd drink a lot of coffee and make rounds [03:07]
BingoBoingo Well coffee helps when keeping up with all the rest of nature [03:08]
punkman [03:23]
assbot ... ( ) [03:23]
phf that evokes images of a decisive cup, rationed coffee as a boost for man's will in harsh conditions. most of the coffee experience i'm surrounded with is not like that at all. office workers on a litre a day, hipsters with artisanal pourovers, three jobs just to keep up crowd on a dunken donuts extra large. not much keeping up with nature [03:24]
mircea_popescu you should see the coffee here. [03:24]
BingoBoingo Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot? [03:25]
mircea_popescu nah, i drink a pot of coffee in like a month [03:26]
phf [03:26]
assbot ... ( ) [03:26]
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phf i don't mind the idea, but, if you need this much coffee, why not just take amphetamines? [03:29]
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BingoBoingo phf: Because that would be bad for my sobriety [03:33]
phf i thought aa mostly object to other substances only as much as they trigger alcohol abuse. unless you have a history of mixing alcohol and speed, there shouldn't be any crossover [03:35]
BingoBoingo How would I know if I did have a history of that? [03:37]
phf some good parties you go to [03:37]
phf it was mostly a rhetorical question, i just think that once you cross certain line with a substance, perhaps it's worthwhile to try something different. but since coffee guzzling is mostly done from lack of attention, perhaps it's not a good idea [03:39]
BingoBoingo Well, supposedly coffee is good for the liver [03:39]
phf in a correlation/causation world of pop medicine here's ten things that you need to know about new use for an old drug that's all the rage [03:42]
BingoBoingo Well, the mechanics make sense [03:43]
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phf so does any other arbitrary chain of biochemical events that some team somewhere decides to investigate. it's the mutual interaction of those events that makes the entire system not amenable to reasoning [03:49]
phf throw in statistical ranges and often shoddy studies and you might as well go quoting ayurvedic doctors [03:50]
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mircea_popescu well nobody seriously wants to contemplate that hey, 19 haplogroups, 100+ subgroups each, subgroups of subgroups, and serious test of "is coffee good or bad" needs 1mn+ subjects [03:55]
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* mircea_popescu is vaguely bracing himself for discovery that tobacco essential for healthy, cca 2050 or so [03:56]
BingoBoingo Well, grandpa did smoke into his late 60's to early 70's [04:01]
phf from the study of dynamic systems, "researches put more wood on kindling, create big fire. more wood is good for fire!" "researches put more wood on massive fire, fire suffocates. less wood is good for fire!" [04:02]
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* BingoBoingo wonders what could be so harmful about drinking less coffee con a daily basis than I often did vodka [04:08]
B0g4r7__ b6 bad_duck ben_vulpes BigBitz BingoBoingo bounce [04:09]
mircea_popescu !up b6 [04:09]
-assbot- You voiced b6 for 30 minutes. [04:09]
* assbot gives voice to b6 [04:09]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo lol so apparently r/btc moderator turned out to be con man, took donations to hash, kept donations since classic doomed anyway. [04:11]
* BingoBoingo not surprised [04:11]
* BingoBoingo not sure if news [04:13]
mircea_popescu kinda so-so. [04:13]
mircea_popescu notrly. more like a logline at best. [04:14]
phf BingoBoingo: oh i wasn't saying it's harmful, i was saying that when coffee stops working, perhaps it's time to take amphetamines, since it's a cleaner and longer productive high. of course with a history of substance abuse of any kind it is perhaps not a good idea (same people who drink coffee by the litre, start eating amphetamines, etc.) [04:14]
phf but i'm going to drop the subject, i'm being tedious and i need to pass out anyway [04:14]
mircea_popescu phf amphetamines are not a good idea in any case. [04:14]
BingoBoingo Eh, coffee still works [04:14]
mircea_popescu contrary to a whole lot of gargle, the list of +ev usage is ~empty. [04:14]
b6 Oh my, i have voice [04:15]
mircea_popescu so you do. who're you ? [04:15]
b6 Just someone interested in bitcoins, and related interests. [04:15]
mircea_popescu aha. [04:16]
b6 Found you guys in a weird way, not gunna lie. [04:16]
b6 Through the most recent f2pool ddos, to be exact. [04:16]
ben_vulpes how through a ddos did you get here? [04:17]
ben_vulpes b6: ^^ [04:18]
mircea_popescu how through an english did you speak that [04:18]
b6 Icebreaker was claiming something about coming from La serenissima [04:20]
b6 Googled that, found MP's article, googles them, found this channel [04:20]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: gutter cascadian lingo [04:21]
ben_vulpes straight from the streets yo [04:21]
ben_vulpes homie [04:21]
phf all dat dank ass portland weed [04:22]
ben_vulpes b6: what is an icebreaker? [04:23]
ben_vulpes phf: i humbly bring lolz: [04:24]
assbot Everett House Healing Center ... ( ) [04:24]
b6 The guy on BTC-T claiming he shut down f2pool this week [04:26]
b6 In response to them allowing miners to use classic [04:27]
mircea_popescu and what's btc-t ? [04:38]
B0g4r7__ b6 bad_duck ben_vulpes BigBitz BingoBoingo bounce [04:39]
B0g4r7__ b6 bad_duck ben_vulpes BigBitz BingoBoingo bounce [04:39]
mircea_popescu anyway b6 make yourself a key get in teh wot. [04:39]
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BingoBoingo !up eth2 [04:51]
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eth2 ohai [04:51]
BingoBoingo hai thur [04:51]
eth2 i guess you've had quite a lot of visitors today haha [04:52]
eth2 them logfiles [04:52]
BingoBoingo it happens [04:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00057919 = 6.7765 BTC [+] {2} [06:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49305 @ 0.00058034 = 28.6137 BTC [+] [06:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57850 @ 0.00058034 = 33.5727 BTC [+] [06:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54078 @ 0.00058165 = 31.4545 BTC [+] {3} [07:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8622 @ 0.00058345 = 5.0305 BTC [+] [07:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 698 @ 0.00261992 = 1.8287 BTC [-] {10} [08:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00058301 = 11.7768 BTC [-] [08:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65016 @ 0.00058612 = 38.1072 BTC [+] {4} [08:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25283 @ 0.00057919 = 14.6437 BTC [-] {2} [09:45]
asciilifeform 'Even without adding D-Bus to the default runlevel it often will get started by D-Bus dependent services. This should explain why D-Bus mysteriously gets started even though it has not been added formally added to a system runlevel.' [10:00]
asciilifeform (gentoo docs) [10:00]
asciilifeform and apparently emacs will no longer build without it. [10:00]
asciilifeform << fascinating read [10:02]
assbot Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Uninstalling dbus and *kits (to Unfacilitate Remote Seats) ... ( ) [10:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00058648 = 28.2097 BTC [+] {2} [10:03]
asciilifeform by the author of [10:04]
assbot Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Air-Gapped Gentoo Install, Tentative ... ( ) [10:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11375 @ 0.0005892 = 6.7022 BTC [+] {4} [10:14]
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punkman interesting stuff asciilifeform [10:27]
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punkman "basically, Grsecurity fixes what Linus leaves open and unprotected for whichever reason in the GNU/Linux kernel, and that seems to annoy the genius very much... It's a real though subdued war out there, and Grsecurity had a moment of mild failure for a few days, exactly after a major contribution by, wait, wait!... by the Dear Leader himself..." [10:29]
asciilifeform << herr rovis himself. [10:32]
assbot Udruga Croatia Fidelis ... ( ) [10:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: can you get him in here somehow ?? [10:32]
asciilifeform 'Somebody seems to have been joking with portage, and not in a nice way (maybe they aim at hurting the feelings of some pizza delivery guy, because that's not illegal like hurting animals)... ' [10:34]
asciilifeform 'Most of those are conditional dependencies (useflag ? ...), and I checked and all of those with dbus ? sys-apps/dbus) have -dbus or no dbus at all in the output of emerge -p. But if I try and check dependencies on those that do depend on dbus...: appears that if gtk+ with useflag X can't work without accessibility/at-spi2-atk ...' [10:34]
asciilifeform '... why should, say, Emacs depend on dbus? ' [10:35]
asciilifeform 'Do I really have to be forced to use accessibility if I want just the gtk gui? I don't have the time needed to learn to modify ebuild, and keep a separate overlay... I want to use Gentoo, not keep building it forever. Do I really have to accomodate for remote seat to be able to use Gentoo? ' [10:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171400 @ 0.0005796 = 99.3434 BTC [-] {6} [10:37]
asciilifeform gold from the commentz: [10:37]
asciilifeform 'Launching Tor Browser Bundle for Linux in /tmp/tor-browser_en-US XPCOMGlueLoad error for file /tmp/tor-browser_en-US/Browser/ cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory' [10:38]
asciilifeform ^ 'tor browser' eats dbus [10:38]
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asciilifeform rovis reminds me more than ANYONE of dragos ruiu. [10:40]
asciilifeform but there are really not so many folks soldiering on to keep the last usable linux quasi-alive. [10:40]
asciilifeform 'go to war with the army you have.' [10:41]
asciilifeform >>>>> [10:43]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 07:22:50; ben_vulpes: phf: i humbly bring lolz: [10:43]
assbot Logged on 10-02-2016 20:28:39; asciilifeform: or everett's solution ! [10:43]
asciilifeform << there are devil knows how many people who would be on dope if they had any way of getting to it. [10:45]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 06:37:37; phf: it was mostly a rhetorical question, i just think that once you cross certain line with a substance, perhaps it's worthwhile to try something different. but since coffee guzzling is mostly done from lack of attention, perhaps it's not a good idea [10:45]
asciilifeform << does mircea_popescu remember the sleep ad libitum thread ? [10:47]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 07:13:02; mircea_popescu: contrary to a whole lot of gargle, the list of +ev usage is ~empty. [10:47]
asciilifeform yes, it is better to sleep ad libitum, and wash yourself in the morning with fresh virgin tears and panda milk. [10:47]
asciilifeform than to take dope. [10:47]
asciilifeform and works best on a dirigible, also. [10:47]
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asciilifeform caffeine etc. users are not typically faced with a mircea_popescutronic choice of 'should i dope or should i sleep how much i want and bathe in virgin tears.' more often, it is a 'i WILL get 4 hrs. of sleep and there is nothing to be done about it. will it be 4 hr and then i fall asleep at my desk and get sacked or 4 hr of being reasonably awake.' [10:49]
asciilifeform *4 hr and [10:50]
asciilifeform << related thread. [10:51]
assbot Logged on 25-08-2014 03:08:03; asciilifeform: busy as a bee << funny that they show an idiot sow scrubbing, and not, e.g, paul erdos crapping out theorems [10:51]
* asciilifeform bbl [10:52]
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trinque wtf happened to freenode this weekend? [11:36]
trinque deedbot- was connecting to successfully, then never appearing here. [11:37]
trinque switched to the rotation, joins. [11:37]
trinque << "Making freenode great again..." lolwut [11:38]
assbot freenode - supporting free and open source communities since 1998! ... ( ) [11:38]
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PeterL trinque: I wonder if we ever get gossipd to replace freenode, will we still have these sorts of connection problems? [11:46]
mircea_popescu not globally. [11:48]
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mircea_popescu << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so. [12:02]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 14:36:29; trinque: << "Making freenode great again..." lolwut [12:02]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, water infrastructure has decayed to the point nobody involved EVNE KNOWS you can't drink from lake then switch to river [12:03]
mircea_popescu and new york has been failing to maintain it's nuclear power plants. [12:03]
mircea_popescu think about it - by the time a nuclear plant starts crying out for lack of maintenance, how badly maintained was everything else ? [12:03]
mircea_popescu and for how long ? [12:03]
PeterL It wasn't clear in the story, is the nuclear problem in New York leaking into their water system and poisoning everybody? [12:04]
mircea_popescu << how lol. [12:04]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 13:31:04; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you get him in here somehow ?? [12:04]
mircea_popescu PeterL no, the water thing is re michigan. [12:05]
PeterL yeah, I know about MI water, but NY is leaking into their river, are they taking river water into their drinking water? [12:06]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla jurov either of you doing on the side the gfs of any croatian nazi leader doods ? that might know this guy ? lol. [12:06]
mircea_popescu PeterL you are aware NOBODY KNOWS what ny water does, not anymore. shit in there that hasn't been touched in 50+ years. [12:06]
jurov doing what? [12:06]
mircea_popescu it's "unmaintainable" ie, unmaintained. once it goes, it goes. start trucking water bottles for 5mn people. [12:06]
mircea_popescu jurov "doing on the side" means, fucking, as an extra, other than current relationship. [12:07]
jurov there's a nzi leader in slovakia but im not doing his bfs [12:07]
PeterL I guess my question is: where does NY city pull it's drinking water from? Is it at all connected to the Hudson River? [12:07]
mircea_popescu i do not believe anyone alive today can answer this question cogently. [12:07]
PeterL millions of people live in new york, and they all just assume somebody else is keeping their stuff running for them [12:08]
PeterL world would be better off if they all get sick and die [12:08]
mircea_popescu << accessibility , for the record, is another dns/ntp/font bs. [12:09]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 13:35:07; asciilifeform: 'Do I really have to be forced to use accessibility if I want just the gtk gui? I don't have the time needed to learn to modify ebuild, and keep a separate overlay... I want to use Gentoo, not keep building it forever. Do I really have to accomodate for remote seat to be able to use Gentoo? ' [12:09]
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thestringpuller PeterL: prob why they used to make a lot of escape from new york movies. [12:09]
mircea_popescu PeterL no argument there. [12:09]
mircea_popescu << doh. [12:11]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 13:36:35; asciilifeform: ^ 'tor browser' eats dbus [12:11]
mircea_popescu << sfyl. [12:11]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 13:45:59; asciilifeform: yes, it is better to sleep ad libitum, and wash yourself in the morning with fresh virgin tears and panda milk. [12:11]
thestringpuller 5k more blocks on node [12:12]
mircea_popescu << they have to put in some emergency patches once people here have started blocking dns autoresolution. [12:13]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 14:35:18; trinque: deedbot- was connecting to successfully, then never appearing here. [12:13]
mircea_popescu sorry, should have announced trilema article in advance for cia/nsa/blablabla. [12:13]
mircea_popescu i must have misplaced my copy of the agreement. [12:13]
PeterL in other news, my trb node (syncing since January) is now up to July 2014 [12:16]
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mircea_popescu nb. [12:36]
deedbot- [serialized delusions] Embedded Common Lisp for Eulora - [12:50]
jurov ;;later tell fghj ^ [12:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [12:52]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - [12:52]
phf i think emacs has dbus support to do fluff like message notification, last time i built it on linux it built without dbus just fine, but i prefer xlib/athena widgets (i know ascii hates them), since i basically disable menu/scrollbar/etc. not sure if maybe gtk widgets now have dbus hardwired [12:55]
phf of course fact that emacs supports dbus but not a generic ffi goes back to thread about rms and wreckers [12:56]
asciilifeform not simply 'supports'. [13:04]
asciilifeform pulls in. [13:04]
asciilifeform i am seriously fucking pissed [13:05]
asciilifeform because, among other things, i mistakenly blamed openbsd for this. [13:05]
phf you mean in gentoo parlance? an emacs ebuild doesn't respect -dbus flag, and pulls it unconditionally? [13:05]
asciilifeform aha. [13:06]
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asciilifeform << the rot goes way back. [13:09]
assbot bug#12112: 24.1.50; Starting emacs without dbus ... ( ) [13:09]
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asciilifeform << in other nyooz. [13:16]
assbot “Has Linux lost its way?” comments prompt a Debian developer to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years | The Changelog ... ( ) [13:16]
asciilifeform well, oldz [13:16]
asciilifeform or nm, i think this is in the logz. [13:16]
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asciilifeform << far more interesting. [13:18]
assbot Debian User Forums • View topic - Grsecurity/Pax installation on Debian GNU/Linux ... ( ) [13:18]
asciilifeform ^ moar rovis [13:18]
asciilifeform ;;google "emacs without dbus" [13:21]
gribble Re: Emacs insists on starting dbus? - Lists - GNU: ; Re: Emacs insists on starting dbus? - Lists - GNU: ; bug#12112: 24.1.50; Starting emacs without dbus - Lists - GNU: [13:21]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - [13:30]
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phf tuomo valkonen has been ranting about that stuff back in 2005 or so [13:40]
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phf "why is this freedesktop shit being compiled in with no way of disabling it" [13:41]
phf his (and mine) pet peve at the time was mandatory freetype (i think that linux's dodgy hinting and antialiasing are worse then running it aliased and at the time i wanted bitmap fonts everywhere) [13:43]
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phf not to mention that freetype pulls in the whole dodgy freedesktop stack. why do i need 5 different libraries to support arabic ligatures? [13:45]
mircea_popescu heh [13:45]
mircea_popescu you don't understand universalism. [13:45]
mircea_popescu the reasoning goes, that if arabs have no way of knowing they're arabs, such as for instance if the use of THEIR script happens transparently everywhere, then they won't be able to maintain a sense of nationality and consequently jena bush's tush will remain unmolested. [13:46]
phf [13:47]
assbot Barney - I Love You (Extended Play 15 times back-to-back!!) - YouTube ... ( ) [13:47]
phf ^ [13:47]
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mircea_popescu this of course means you must support arabic ligature in your kkkapp made specifically to scrawl white supremacist nonsense on virtual toilets in gta4. [13:48]
mircea_popescu but it also means you needn't worry about it - as a consumer, it'll just be done for you, automagically! [13:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45397 @ 0.00059164 = 26.8587 BTC [+] {2} [13:49]
mircea_popescu and to take the discussion up a coupla levels of abstraction : this is not a technical problem in any sense. in fact, the only thing that a classification of problems into technical and otherwise says is that ~the classifier~ is broken in the head. [13:50]
mircea_popescu or if you prefer, poorly socialised. still entertains the delusion that he'll make a nice woman out of marble and invent a lock that'll keep rats out of his granary. [13:50]
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mircea_popescu !up deupork [13:52]
-assbot- You voiced deupork for 30 minutes. [13:52]
* assbot gives voice to deupork [13:52]
asciilifeform so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program. [13:57]
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mircea_popescu all he does is prepare conference slides. for 20+ yearsn ow [14:06]
asciilifeform proving that it is eminently possible to be eaten alive by fungus ~without~ working directly for usg. [14:07]
asciilifeform fungus is available to all. [14:08]
mircea_popescu ie, old age ? [14:08]
asciilifeform not only. [14:09]
asciilifeform (rms was, what, 40, 20 yrs ago ?) [14:09]
asciilifeform my current understanding is that he didn't really psychologically weather the hurd thing. [14:10]
mircea_popescu what thng again ? [14:10]
asciilifeform he had a thing that was supposed to be what linux was [14:11]
mircea_popescu oh [14:11]
asciilifeform called gnu hurd [14:11]
mircea_popescu hm [14:11]
asciilifeform for various reasons, rms et al were unable to produce a usable kernel. [14:11]
asciilifeform then linus appeared, and did [14:11]
asciilifeform and 'stole' the gnu userland, to go with it [14:11]
mircea_popescu aha. [14:12]
mircea_popescu various reasons = being flaming imbeciles with no inclination towards work [14:12]
mircea_popescu he basically saw himself as a sort of jimbo wales. except forgot the part where tardpedia can contain anything, epistula non erubiscit, but the compiler doth complain. [14:13]
asciilifeform as i recall, the original plan was to use some bsd variant [14:13]
mircea_popescu and if a community vote is held to silence the complaints for racist and whatrever, [14:13]
asciilifeform and rms wrote, later, that not doing this was a catastrophic mistake [14:13]
mircea_popescu the system just hangs. [14:13]
asciilifeform instead, he went with 'mach', which was owned by - iirc - CMU, and stuck in legal limbo [14:13]
asciilifeform and while the latter hashed out, the project withered. [14:14]
asciilifeform so no, this was not a pediwikian sort of catastrophe, but worse. [14:14]
mircea_popescu environment not yet ripe for "fuck you - breaking the law by license!" alexandrine solution [14:14]
mircea_popescu it being the 80s and shit. [14:14]
asciilifeform aha. [14:14]
asciilifeform it was the '80s, and the man was 'dependently wealthy.' [14:14]
asciilifeform (rms won some sort of prize for gcc, but it was only enough for a few yrs, apparently, and parasites helped to eat it faster) [14:15]
asciilifeform i do not know where it went, but afaik he still lives in a repurposed closet at mit. [14:16]
mircea_popescu afaik. [14:16]
mircea_popescu "being flaming imbeciles with no inclination towards work". [14:17]
punkman relevant [14:20]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 12:42:16; punkman: [14:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't see the 'no inclination towards work' thing [14:21]
asciilifeform rms was working on catastrophically broken priors, but worked. [14:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60450 @ 0.00059164 = 35.7646 BTC [+] [14:24]
asciilifeform interesting, from punkman's link: [14:24]
asciilifeform 'Even when the SC is asked to decide something, they never go to RMS when they can help it, because he's so unaware of modern real-world technical issues and the bigger picture. It's far, far better to continue postponing a question than to ask it, when RMS is involved, because he will make a snap decision based on his own bizarre technical ideas, and then never change his mind in time for th [14:24]
asciilifeform He can be convinced. Eventually. It took the SC over a year to explain and demonstrate that Java bytecode could not easily be used to subvert the GPL, therefore permitting GCJ to be checked in to the official repository was okay. I'm sure that someday we'll be using C++ in core code. Just not anytime soon.' [14:24]
asciilifeform e new decision to be worth anything. [14:25]
asciilifeform ^ rms when seen from the gnome pit [14:25]
asciilifeform stung from all sides by vermin who want him to 'get with the times', is it any wonder rms turned to stone ? [14:25]
asciilifeform 'real-world technical issues and the bigger picture.' [14:26]
asciilifeform 'his own bizarre technical ideas'. [14:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how does a man work who can't support himself ? [14:27]
punkman ah there'[s more [14:27]
assbot Richard Stallman ... ( ) [14:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how does prisoner in butugychag work ? [14:28]
mircea_popescu masturbation is not work. [14:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform with the axe. [14:28]
asciilifeform it is when you're masturbating ~someone else~ [14:28]
mircea_popescu mno. [14:28]
asciilifeform at gunpoint [14:28]
punkman [14:29]
assbot Part I. Philosopher ... ( ) [14:29]
punkman "Here at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, he has made his home - literally, sleeping for 13 years on a narrow cot in a cubbyhole that resembles a nest, littered with candy wrappers, food containers, papers and magazines. Garbage tumbles off every surface, piles up in corners, allowing only a narrow track through which to navigate a life." [14:29]
mircea_popescu also, the proper quote is "modern real-world technical issues and the bigger picture". gotta get that MODERN in there, it is a key element of the belief system of idiots that the problems they encounter are novel. [14:29]
asciilifeform attempt of hostile takeover of glib << l0l drepper gold [14:30]
assbot Part IV. Stallman as a Prophet ... ( ) [14:30]
asciilifeform pretty sure this was in the logz at some point [14:30]
mircea_popescu wtf is with all these urls with spaces in them [14:30]
asciilifeform 'Stallman recently tried what I would call a hostile takeover of the glibc development. He tried to conspire behind my back and persuade the other main developers to take control so that in the end he is in control and can dictate whatever pleases him. This attempt failed ... ' [14:30]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nfi [14:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this was in the log. [14:30]
asciilifeform yeah iirc. [14:30]
phf is that drepper quote? [14:31]
mircea_popescu yeah. [14:31]
mircea_popescu anyway, the ridiculousness of form aside, i can readily see the twin point that rms is catastrophically blind and strategically worthless. [14:32]
phf back against the wall [14:32]
mircea_popescu enough illustration - he went to fucking glbse conference. [14:32]
trinque rms strikes me as a few rounds of imitation back from poettering and that ethereum kid [14:33]
asciilifeform srsly? [14:33]
mircea_popescu yes srsly. [14:33]
asciilifeform glbse?! [14:33]
mircea_popescu !s from:nefario stallman [14:33]
assbot 0 results for 'from:nefario stallman' : [14:33]
mircea_popescu pff [14:33]
asciilifeform 'In 1990, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation granted Stallman a MacArthur fellowship. The grant, a $240,000 which is more then $500K in 2000 dollars provided Stallman with a source of income and health insurance for five years. That made it less necessary to do consulting work to support himself. Although RMS now can devote more time to the writing GNU software, but actually h [14:33]
trinque playing the role of slovenly hacker guy who chews his toenails [14:33]
asciilifeform e was almost 40 and his best years as a programmer were in the past. Programming is a young men game and such grants usually are a clear signs of a starting decay. [14:33]
asciilifeform 'Unpleasant surprises followed. As leader of the GNU Project, Stallman experienced the first fork of Emacs in 1991. As we will see below by 1993, the GNU Project's completely lost the initiative due to an inability to deliver a working POSIX kernel. In March, 1993, a Wired magazine article by Simson Garfinkel described the GNU Project as "bogged down". GCC fork occurred a several years late [14:33]
asciilifeform r (1997) and was the last straw... ' [14:33]
trinque same as any other chief scientist or wannabe religious nut leader [14:34]
asciilifeform nobody lives forever. [14:34]
asciilifeform some folks just spend longer time walking around as a zombie before burial, than others. [14:34]
mircea_popescu << flavour of history, sep 2013. [14:35]
assbot ... ( ) [14:35]
asciilifeform so we're taking nefario's word for it ? [14:35]
mircea_popescu the guy was actually there. [14:36]
phf [14:38]
assbot Soulja Boy dance, MIT style - YouTube ... ( ) [14:38]
mircea_popescu to put this in proper perspective : "genjix" is the garbage-eating, underage-cousin-pimping, imbecile on a stick amir taaki. [14:39]
mircea_popescu stallman has reduced himself to the position where street urchins are pulling the "i'm paying you, stand up to attention" trick on him [14:39]
mircea_popescu in 2013. [14:39]
kakobrekla afaik it wasnt 'glbse conference' per se, however nefario had a talk there as well as stallman. / / [14:39]
assbot Speakers - Bitcoin Conference London 15-16 September 2012 ... ( ) [14:39]
assbot Bitcoin 2012 London: Richard Stallman - YouTube ... ( ) [14:39]
assbot Nefario - Bitcoin capital markets - YouTube ... ( ) [14:40]
mircea_popescu and i do mean street urchins quite literally, the sort of mostly-nude eastern flesh that'd follow europeans begging for candy, either as a freebie or in trade for butthole. [14:40]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla tell you what, if maddof has a talk there as well as obama, it'll be the ponzi conference. [14:40]
asciilifeform public toilet is, well, public [14:41]
mircea_popescu not how this works. [14:41]
mircea_popescu you have to BUY A LICENSE to run a public house and be protected by this "publichouse" theory. [14:41]
mircea_popescu and i sold them no such license. [14:41]
asciilifeform rms, as i understand, goes to all kinds of crud ('phreeee palestine!1111') to play at relevancy [14:41]
asciilifeform *relevance [14:41]
phf well, it's an opportunity for him to get his talking points in [14:42]
asciilifeform some intern, likely, told him a five minute spiel re: bitcoin [14:42]
mircea_popescu well, it's an opportunity for him to make nice for 500 bux. [14:42]
asciilifeform and he looked up 'bitcoin conference' and went. [14:42]
mircea_popescu but, back to the original point : catastrophic blindness and strategic worthlessness. the embodiment thereof, this is it. [14:43]
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kakobrekla rms was on nefarios conference as much as nefario was on rms conference [14:53]
asciilifeform ^ [14:53]
asciilifeform but i suspect that mircea_popescu is operating on the 'spoon of shit in barrel of wine' theorem [14:54]
kakobrekla aha [14:54]
asciilifeform but did rms even know that he was bathing in shit ? [14:54]
kakobrekla if i had to guess mps argument here; 'shit doesnt know/care about itself bathing in shit, only actual person does' [14:56]
mircea_popescu well no, actually, it's moreover related to [15:00]
mircea_popescu [15:01]
assbot Logged on 26-02-2016 14:55:06; mircea_popescu: everything is on the exam. including stuff from the future. [15:01]
mircea_popescu oh, he "didn't know" what was in front of him ? that's the definition of blindness. and he didn't know WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ? [15:01]
mircea_popescu well wtf, i get the same results from my dog. i don't make the dog a strategist. FOR THIS REASON. [15:01]
mircea_popescu if dog could see future, dog would also be general. [15:01]
asciilifeform actually rms is the most consistently and accurately long-term doom prophet i'm personally aware of. [15:02]
asciilifeform beats the shit out of everyone else. [15:02]
mircea_popescu prophets are not strategists. [15:02]
mircea_popescu they're a sort of singers. [15:02]
asciilifeform ~accurate~ prophet. [15:02]
mircea_popescu ~good~ singers. [15:02]
kakobrekla yeah, his talks have been a carbon copy for a very long time on all the confs. [15:02]
asciilifeform so what's the operative difference ? [15:02]
mircea_popescu between what and what! [15:03]
asciilifeform prophet / strategist [15:03]
asciilifeform is it that the latter tells you what to do ? [15:03]
mircea_popescu listen to prophet, be entertained ; follow strategist, survive. [15:03]
asciilifeform well yes. [15:04]
asciilifeform but i was asking, what they do differently. [15:04]
mircea_popescu because why, anything can be expressed in pascal ? [15:04]
asciilifeform aha! [15:04]
asciilifeform remember, i don't deal in inexpressables. or i'd be hanging at the dirigible club with mircea_popescu, and not here in this ditch [15:05]
asciilifeform i'm stuck with expressable. [15:05]
mircea_popescu you'll have to one day tell me what's the "operative difference" between peach and pear, but not in the sense of "one has a wooden pit". instead, in the sense of "what do the trees do differently" [15:05]
mircea_popescu and i presume "everything" doesn't suit you. [15:05]
asciilifeform i can arrange this but the answer will be a few MB long. [15:06]
asciilifeform but certainly not inexpressable. [15:06]
mircea_popescu don't flatter yourself. you can't arrange this, and the answer would provably be > petabytes long. [15:06]
asciilifeform MB if we get to #include from the genus. [15:06]
mircea_popescu but you UNDERSTAND the meta point, which makes you lie to yourself about your capacities, because you really really want things to be a certain way. [15:06]
asciilifeform otherwise mircea_popescu has it. [15:06]
mircea_popescu so basically this discussion just became 'explain this to me, and if you do i'll just pretend the explanation doesn't exist" [15:07]
asciilifeform actually i have a suitably grim picture of the capacities. [15:07]
asciilifeform having actually been tasked with attempting something quite like the peach/pear before. [15:07]
mircea_popescu aha [15:07]
mircea_popescu note in any case that "operative" in that context specifically seeks "wooden pit" type answers. [15:08]
asciilifeform but mircea_popescu misunderstood, i have no intention of pretending that the inexpressable distinction does not exist. merely stating that i am not equipped to deal in it. [15:08]
mircea_popescu and who is. [15:09]
asciilifeform possibly mircea_popescu ? [15:09]
asciilifeform whose profession it is. [15:09]
mircea_popescu sadly, nope. [15:09]
asciilifeform ( strategist ) [15:09]
mircea_popescu o, it is ? maybe when i'm having a good day. [15:09]
phf goes back to cause/purpose thing [15:10]
mircea_popescu now, granted, in re the trees, while it stands that you can't do it, i suspect you're right in suspecting it CAN be done. [15:10]
mircea_popescu which makes it perhaps a substantially different bojum. [15:11]
asciilifeform i can't personally, with own hands, put a satellite in orbit, either. [15:11]
mircea_popescu right. [15:11]
mircea_popescu but i know people who put satellites in orbit ; i know no one who made the answer to the tree question. [15:11]
mircea_popescu "step towards" is you know... another ledge. [15:12]
asciilifeform the tree question is approx. where rocketry was in 1930. [15:14]
mircea_popescu mebbe. [15:15]
mircea_popescu note that cold fusion has been approx where rocketry was in 1930 for a good century now. [15:15]
asciilifeform mno. [15:16]
asciilifeform it was where transmutation was in 1500. [15:16]
mircea_popescu what's the operative difference ? [15:16]
mircea_popescu they're both where virgin teen is on prom night. is it going to be a good experience/marriage/life ? who knows ? [15:16]
mircea_popescu who even cares ? take it off! [15:16]
asciilifeform the difference between 'needs moar engineering' and charlatanry that can absorb $trillion with not a blip of result ? [15:17]
mircea_popescu note that mom and dad of virgin teen can liberally hold either of these views, interchangeably. [15:17]
asciilifeform also fusion is very much the wrong term. [15:17]
asciilifeform you can go and fuse in your kitchen right now. [15:17]
asciilifeform (see, e.g., farnsworth's device) [15:17]
asciilifeform the boojum is ~ +EV fusion ~. [15:17]
mircea_popescu i think that's what the "cold" part is trying to suggest. [15:17]
mircea_popescu otherwise... all sorts of "more expensive than it's worth" methods are known [15:18]
asciilifeform you can also cold fuse right now. [15:18]
asciilifeform whack palladium deuteride with hammer. [15:18]
mircea_popescu in a different take of "cold". [15:18]
mircea_popescu ie, not high temperature, cold. but the meaning contemplated in the expression is, i suspect, quite, "+ev, ie cold" [15:18]
mircea_popescu as in cold ownage. [15:18]
asciilifeform well there are two schools of fusion crackpottery, the 'hot' (tokamak, but really is just refinement of hbomb codes) and 'cold'. [15:19]
asciilifeform both have delusions of '+ev any day now'. [15:19]
mircea_popescu i like the laser pumping people. [15:19]
mircea_popescu lasers are fun. [15:19]
asciilifeform the 'hot' folks managed to strangle the 'cold' for the usg pig trough fight, yes. [15:19]
asciilifeform the laser thing is really the quest for the 'clean thermonuke' in disguise. [15:20]
asciilifeform (i.e. thermonuke that doesn't require a fissile initiator, ergo no need for refining U) [15:20]
mircea_popescu aha. [15:21]
asciilifeform usg has an interesting relationship with the thing [15:21]
asciilifeform on one hand, it is the last thing a lizard wants to see appear. [15:21]
asciilifeform anywhere. [15:21]
asciilifeform on other hand, nobody can resist asking the question. [15:22]
mircea_popescu "ideally, it would want it not to exist ; but if it must exist, it wants to be the only one to ever have it" [15:22]
asciilifeform aha. [15:22]
mircea_popescu in a very "sf" take of the thing - actually workable, and perhaps miniaturizable laser-initiated compression would put the nuclear issue on about the same terms the war on drugs finds itself. [15:22]
mircea_popescu ie, anyoen can make drugs and you won't be able to detect them and fuck you. [15:23]
asciilifeform aha. [15:23]
mircea_popescu "here's where washington used to be, that crater to the left. oh, you never saw that 100cc of methane gas, did oyu ? awww!" [15:23]
asciilifeform and it won't cost much, either. [15:23]
mircea_popescu shoulda looked for methane instead of 2,3-blablatronium. [15:23]
asciilifeform quite possibly everything else that usg does is preparation for this exam. [15:24]
mircea_popescu unlike the qc thing, i can't even say this is not in the cards. [15:25]
asciilifeform since '53 or whenever ulam realized that you don't actually need the fissile firecracker. [15:25]
mircea_popescu besides. gotta explain all the other lifeless planets out there ~somehow~. [15:25]
asciilifeform i can see hitler and dulles nodding to one another, 'yeah it'll be better to create a planet of castrated zombies' [15:25]
mircea_popescu i don't see that better. [15:26]
asciilifeform ~they~ see it. [15:26]
mircea_popescu as the romanian expression goes, "apai atunci nu-i prea vad in clar" [15:26]
asciilifeform i'll take the lifeless crater, plox. [15:26]
mircea_popescu literally, "thus therefore, i don't see them to clearly", but that "not see clearly" really means, "it won't end up well for them". sort-of like prophet not seeing your future too clearly. [15:27]
mircea_popescu "in clar" also denotes plaintext, ie, immediately accessible. no need to explain and mediate their carcass into being, as it were. [15:27]
asciilifeform yudkowsky, of all people, wrote some story where there was a planet where they learned to make fusion device with ancient greek level tech. and the survivers evolved. into something strange. [15:30]
asciilifeform (into some monstrously happy/dopy/cooperative beast) [15:30]
asciilifeform at any rate, even orwell had his fingers on it [15:31]
asciilifeform !s you and the atomic bomb [15:31]
assbot 16 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : [15:31]
asciilifeform as in [15:32]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 07:02:37; asciilifeform: 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it [15:32]
mircea_popescu fortunately, it is not MERELY the atomic bomb that is rare and costly and as difficult to produce as a battleship. [15:50]
mircea_popescu ~CARING~ about the otherwise irrelevant item is ALSO rare and costly and difficult to produce. moreso than a battleship. [15:50]
mircea_popescu hence why the meanwhile-barbarianized new yorkers couldn't care less if the nuke plant blows. [15:50]
mircea_popescu so what if it does ? more varied tail for the lot of them! [15:50]
asciilifeform phun phakt, seems like 'genkernel' won't allow you to disable flag SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYRING . [16:01]
asciilifeform y'know, the one in . [16:01]
assbot Analysis and Exploitation of a Linux Kernel Vulnerability (CVE-2016-0728) | Perception Point ... ( ) [16:01]
mircea_popescu but at any rate, notice how the "worldwide peace" movement seamlessly morphed into the "antiatomic movement" seamlessly morphed into the "ecology" movement. [16:01]
mircea_popescu and recall tlp's wunderwaffenwords, [16:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was a kgb golem, and this is amply documented. [16:02]
mircea_popescu motherfucker, there's some ad on his page that blocks the loading. [16:03]
asciilifeform l0l i thought you had his complete worx cached. [16:04]
mircea_popescu will have to do [16:04]
assbot The Last Psychiatrist: You Are The 98% ... ( ) [16:04]
phf i think the "advanced user" workflow is to pick up genkernel config, menuconfig it, put the config back into genkernel, recompile [16:05]
asciilifeform phf: well yes, but the result is usually that the compile barfs [16:05]
phf in before asciilifeform finally goes all LFS [16:05]
phf ah [16:06]
asciilifeform lfs ? [16:06]
phf linux from scratch [16:06]
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asciilifeform ah [16:11]
asciilifeform that'd be merely gentoo without portage. [16:11]
asciilifeform wtf is the point. [16:11]
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trinque decent as a learning tool and not much else. [16:11]
* trinque did it once [16:12]
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asciilifeform i'm beginning to understand why the enemy is not particularly scared of trb. [16:12]
asciilifeform we don't actually have a kernel that isn't fully, certifiably porous. [16:13]
asciilifeform the mice have been in the granary for... 20 yrs ? [16:15]
asciilifeform and there is scarcely any grain at all to be found there. [16:15]
asciilifeform only mouse shit. [16:15]
asciilifeform and we (or at least i) are still baking bread from it. [16:16]
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asciilifeform because there is not another granary. [16:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86051 @ 0.00058627 = 50.4491 BTC [-] {3} [16:25]
trinque << >> [16:39]
assbot Openbsd Openbsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed reports ... ( ) [16:39]
assbot Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed reports ... ( ) [16:39]
trinque yes, I understand I just said "this food has less shit in it!" [16:39]
trinque worth mentioning too that one's referring to an entire *usable* operating system and the other to only a kernel [16:40]
trinque I personally would far sooner deal with a shitty package management system than a swiss cheese kernel [16:43]
trinque and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux. [16:43]
trinque tbh bitching about the openbsd ports tree is a matter of having missed the point; pester the maintainer or become him if you want something changed. [16:45]
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asciilifeform trinque: 'want something changed' is not the right description for granary full of mouse shit. [17:04]
trinque actually most of the remote code execution exploits in recent OpenBSD were the fault of X [17:15]
asciilifeform kernel exploit is not usually a remote but more privesc thing, anyway [17:16]
trinque it seems to have done pretty well across the board [17:16]
trinque whether that's due to it being a less prevalent target, I do not know. [17:16]
asciilifeform i have a brick here that also did pretty well. [17:17]
asciilifeform no remote exploits for it !1111 [17:17]
trinque heh, I'll have to try running my emacs env on your brick sometime [17:18]
asciilifeform anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ? [17:21]
trinque !s from:phf openbsd [17:21]
assbot 20 results for 'from:phf openbsd' : [17:21]
asciilifeform i don't recall a ~rotor~ trb working there. [17:23]
asciilifeform phf, is there one ? [17:23]
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trinque it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it? [17:24]
trinque in openbsd's case the operating system's version number refers to an entire base system [17:25]
trinque could just target one of those and results should be the same on same arch [17:25]
asciilifeform buildroot, theoretically, ought to work on bsd. [17:26]
asciilifeform (recall, we're not building a kernel with it, only the toolchain) [17:26]
trinque lemme see what it does and I'll paste; I've done it before and it barfed. [17:27]
asciilifeform understand why i went with buildroot. [17:27]
asciilifeform we need a thing that will 1) let us 'vendor' gcc and the WHOLE toolchain [17:27]
asciilifeform 2) GUARANTEE that a build pulls in NOTHING from outside. [17:27]
trinque yep, sensible [17:28]
asciilifeform there may be other ways to achieve this, e.g., a bsd 'jail' [17:29]
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deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 17.40000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - [17:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00059163 = 29.4632 BTC [+] {2} [18:20]
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phf asciilifeform: there's no rotor [18:39]
phf i think i wanted to figure out how to package openssl/db/boost as buildroot native packages, rather then doing adhoc, which is a task in itself [18:41]
phf once i do can probably produce buildroot for mac os x too [18:41]
phf i'm though confused, i thought buildroot is explicitly a cross-compilation mechanism? [18:43]
phf "Buildroot is a tool that simplifies and automates the process of building a complete Linux system for an embedded system, using cross-compilation. [18:44]
phf [18:44]
phf In order to achieve this, Buildroot is able to generate a cross-compilation toolchain, a root filesystem, a Linux kernel image and a bootloader for your target." [18:44]
ben_vulpes > verify with text message (most secure) [18:49]
ben_vulpes mhm sure [18:49]
ben_vulpes << this girl i'm rather fond of convinced me that it wasn't a half-bad way to spend thirty years while my brain rots building apps for various usg tentacles. [18:52]
assbot Logged on 27-02-2016 20:00:05; asciilifeform: in this particular case, why offspring [18:52]
ben_vulpes sure as hell beats drinking the horror at my own existence away [18:52]
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ben_vulpes << mount her on a bicycle, pilfer a bottle from the office, mash around the city on bikes, break onto the in-decomissionment sellwood bridge and fuck on it? iono man what does one do with random girls anyways [18:54]
assbot Logged on 25-02-2016 18:22:46; pete_dushenski: << inquiring minds would like to know what you'd have done with her if you caught her ! [18:54]
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asciilifeform << we abuse it... [19:12]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 21:41:44; phf: i'm though confused, i thought buildroot is explicitly a cross-compilation mechanism? [19:12]
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phf oh so it's not even crosscompile? [19:24]
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asciilifeform well we cross-compile. [19:27]
asciilifeform from derplinux to ideallinux. [19:27]
phf :) [19:27]
asciilifeform thinkaboutit. [19:27]
asciilifeform and, originally, i picked up buildroot to make pogotron. [19:28]
thestringpuller everytime I see pogo reference I think of butt plug [19:34]
phf [19:36]
assbot 200 OK ... ( ) [19:36]
BingoBoingo << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so. << It's a Trump slogan, that's why it went meme [19:44]
asciilifeform hay mas futuro! [19:47]
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BingoBoingo it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it? << Last week Openbsd killed linux_compat on i386 which is the last platform they supported it on [19:57]
phf oh ffs [19:59]
phf i was hoping to get intellij idea running on that [20:00]
BingoBoingo [20:01]
assbot Linux Emulation goes to the great bitbucket of the sky ... ( ) [20:01]
asciilifeform phf: l0l! are you slaving in a java mine ?! [20:01]
* asciilifeform used 'idea' as a student, many years ago. [20:02]
phf nah, actually use it for day to day development [20:02]
asciilifeform how is that not slaving in a java mine ? [20:03]
phf err, i mean, python mostly [20:03]
asciilifeform or does idea do other langs now [20:03]
asciilifeform hm [20:03]
phf it does, and it has very elaborate python plugin (can be had separately as "pycharm") [20:03]
jurov they have a sibling of idea named pycharm [20:03]
jurov i use, too [20:04]
phf it does things for you, autoimports, large scale refactoring, working jump to/from functionality [20:05]
phf it's got some other niceties, like a db integration, where it introspects into the scheme and then does static analysis on your sql code, including sql code that's inline somewhere in python [20:07]
phf *schema [20:07]
asciilifeform this is spiffy, but closed source crud belongs in a specially-designated leprosorium (malware box, or at least, if you like living dangerously, a vm) rather than on naked civilian box ! [20:08]
phf i don't know what constitutes naked civilian box [20:10]
asciilifeform depends. [20:11]
asciilifeform 'don't shit in the kitchen' is valid, despite different folks having different kinds of kitchen [20:11]
asciilifeform i.e. places where definitionally one ought not shit. [20:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4882 @ 0.00058647 = 2.8631 BTC [+] [20:14]
jurov that it's good thing to dream about :) [20:15]
* ben_vulpes shits in sink, eats from toilet bowl, never knew to do anything else before 2013 [20:15]
ben_vulpes AM PASHTUN [20:15]
jurov As long as you use the proper hand for each. [20:16]
ben_vulpes american pashtun! [20:18]
ben_vulpes i have tp ffs jurov [20:18]
ben_vulpes sheesh this is like when i moved to new york and people were astonished to learn that there's electricity west of the rockies [20:19]
deedbot- [Ossasepia] Coordinate Eulometry (or Tomb of the Dead Mollusc) - [20:19]
phf toilet paper is barbaric [20:19]
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ben_vulpes at mp's prompting i added a plastic handheld thing to the shower [20:22]
thestringpuller ben_vulpes: isn't that for old people? [20:23]
deedbot- [Qntra] Google At Fault In Motor Vehicle Collision - [20:23]
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phf asciilifeform: i guess i can't seem to find a baseline that doesn't suck in all kinds of obvious and non-obvious ways. for all practical purposes i operate out of a semipublic terminal that i don't own. various attempts to establish non-superficial ownership were unsuccessful for reasons amply discussed here [20:31]
phf i found my way here to begin with because i was following your loperos project and your conclusions were then correct, only to be re-confirmed as part of b-a research [20:33]
asciilifeform phf: iirc several people did [20:33]
asciilifeform (adlai ?) [20:33]
phf probably all the common lispers [20:34]
asciilifeform not all, ben_vulpes was here before me. [20:34]
phf ah, i think that's from before i was paying close attention to logs [20:35]
phf but anyway, chuck moore probably has clean kitchen and terry davis :p [20:35]
asciilifeform iirc he was named benkay in those days. [20:35]
phf i think he renamed himself during my 6 months [20:37]
phf my current goal is to have better compartmentalization, like have a gaming machine (i.e. libretto running dos, i've been unwinding with ~~'95 games), a work machine (i.e. a thing that can run intellij and which is compromised for all the practical purposes) and a b-a machine whatever that evolves into, because i don't think the future of a computer as a progrock moog station is panning out [20:43]
phf ^- [20:45]
assbot ... ( ) [20:45]
BingoBoingo not all, ben_vulpes was here before me. << iirc benkay you and myself were part of the 2013 #b-a cohort [20:47]
phf that must be right because that's when asciilifeform published the mpex review, so i must've been reading mp since then, but ben_vulpes renamed himself quite recently [20:50]
phf sometime summer last year [20:50]
mats [21:01]
assbot ... ( ) [21:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00058663 = 21.8813 BTC [+] {2} [21:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00058156 = 20.7908 BTC [-] {3} [21:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.0005812 = 19.5864 BTC [-] {2} [21:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22050 @ 0.00058874 = 12.9817 BTC [+] {4} [21:34]
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deedbot- [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Report - [21:45]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: [21:45]
assbot ... ( ) [21:45]
deedbot- rejected: 1 [21:45]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: [21:46]
assbot ... ( ) [21:46]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [21:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00059143 = 20.8775 BTC [+] [21:48]
jurov lol i measure my coffee consumption by "does the shit smell like coffee? if not, all ok" [21:49]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 06:24:02; BingoBoingo: Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot? [21:49]
jurov but i started to mix it with cereal/chicory coffee to make it easy on stomach [21:51]
BingoBoingo Ah, a couple days after I open a can I'll start adding cold milk to it when I pour for the same reason [21:53]
BingoBoingo I don't really have chicory around this time of year [21:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32342 @ 0.0005812 = 18.7972 BTC [-] {2} [22:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28002 @ 0.0005812 = 16.2748 BTC [-] {2} [22:07]
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deedbot- [Trilema] What MP wants MP gets, the funarg problem and other Mecano considerations - [22:17]
ben_vulpes looks like i changed nicks 7/29/2014 [22:18]
mircea_popescu << no, it's an argument in flavor of linux. [22:18]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 19:42:04; trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux. [22:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40036 @ 0.00058011 = 23.2253 BTC [-] {3} [22:19]
ben_vulpes what flavor of linux though? [22:19]
mircea_popescu nono, in flavor of linux. like, in the style of bosch. [22:21]
mircea_popescu << i vaguely recall BingoBoingo sort-of trying [22:23]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 20:19:25; asciilifeform: anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ? [22:23]
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BingoBoingo I have a partially trb-icized 7 series in the name of implementation pluralism. No earthly idea what all changes happened. [22:25]
mircea_popescu on bsd ? [22:26]
asciilifeform phf had stator on bsd. [22:26]
asciilifeform but no one, to date - rotor. [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00057892 = 11.0574 BTC [-] {3} [22:26]
asciilifeform now rotor is not ~quite~ as necessary on bsd, because drepper is absent there. BUT we still need deterministic nailed-down toolchain, esp. for when we finally do the deterministic binary thing. [22:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00058768 = 23.0371 BTC [+] {2} [22:27]
mircea_popescu aha [22:28]
mircea_popescu besides, as per satoshi's argument ("no, don't bring it on"), might not be the smartest thing in the world to give drepper incentive to exist on bsd anyway [22:28]
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asciilifeform the idea is to categorically cut off the very possibility of drepper existing. [22:29]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: On OpenBSD. It's the one I chopped together mostly while drunk and still works. [22:29]
mircea_popescu aha [22:29]
BingoBoingo Dropped in low-s a month or two (mebbe 3) before trb, has -minrelaytx flag, from trb orphanage slaughters and malleus were definitely implemented. Other things but would take reading to recall them. [22:30]
mircea_popescu cool. [22:31]
ben_vulpes hue, ether's hardforking already? [22:32]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.50000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - [22:32]
BingoBoingo oh? did they drop the old bottle with the precipitated peroxides already? [22:33]
ben_vulpes and, although the latter is only noted as a hardfork on a blog page [22:33]
assbot EIPs/eip-2.mediawiki at master · ethereum/EIPs · GitHub ... ( ) [22:33]
assbot ... ( ) [22:33]
mircea_popescu << ben_dog! [22:34]
assbot Logged on 29-02-2016 23:13:58; *: ben_vulpes shits in sink, eats from toilet bowl, never knew to do anything else before 2013 [22:34]
mod6 [22:35]
assbot [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( ) [22:35]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Seriously, they heated their Ether up into a gas?! No wonder it is already hardforking everywhere. [22:35]
ben_vulpes tastes great with alf_dog [22:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10817 @ 0.00057878 = 6.2607 BTC [-] {2} [22:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35583 @ 0.00057749 = 20.5488 BTC [-] {3} [22:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00058798 = 31.0747 BTC [+] {2} [22:41]
ben_vulpes why are all of the self-hosted rss readers written in php [22:43]
ben_vulpes i found one in rubby [22:44]
* assbot gives voice to fluffypony [22:45]
fluffypony ben_vulpes: because PHP is secure and easy to use [22:45]
fluffypony everything should just be written in PHP [22:45]
fluffypony Bitcoin should switch to the Timekoin codebase [22:46]
* ben_vulpes bites [22:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26450 @ 0.00059143 = 15.6433 BTC [+] [22:47]
ben_vulpes heh [22:49]
ben_vulpes gold, fluffypony [22:49]
fluffypony btw did anyone else notice that RealSolid is back? [22:49]
fluffypony [22:49]
assbot MicroCash. Now in Alpha 2 release. ... ( ) [22:49]
* AaronvanW_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [22:51]
ben_vulpes > juices flowing [22:52]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [23:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25502 @ 0.00058137 = 14.8261 BTC [-] {2} [23:04]
mats hot [23:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28185 @ 0.00058138 = 16.3862 BTC [+] [23:11]
phf [23:26]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 05:12:12; phf: ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd. [23:26]
phf and [23:26]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 05:13:29; phf: the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction [23:26]
phf now that there was a suggestion of treating specific openbsd version as baseline, i think problem was that i built in on one openbsd and tried running on another [23:27]
phf node was running fine inside a virtualbox openbsd though, same one that i built it on. [23:28]
asciilifeform wai wut, openbsd has no stable abi at all ?!!! [23:28]
phf hehehe [23:28]
mircea_popescu fluffypony> everything should just be written in PHP << word. [23:29]
phf asciilifeform: they take a "we'll make sure to break abi, rebuild from source every time" position [23:29]
mircea_popescu not even sure this is wrong. [23:30]
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asciilifeform this is only a good thing in the sense that spraying ddt in every room of your house is. [23:32]
asciilifeform yes, no mosquitoes. [23:32]
asciilifeform but this is simply yet another way for mosquitoes to win. [23:32]
mircea_popescu i guess. [23:33]
mircea_popescu in other news, til i learned that the criteria for "fridge big enough" is : if one discrete item won't fit, push. if it now fits, fridge is big enough. if it still won't fit, "wtf is with these tiny-ass euro style fridges already!!1" [23:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15170 @ 0.00058571 = 8.8852 BTC [+] {2} [23:34]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform i was tempted throughout eulora lifetime to go "fu, no binaries, compile, always". and i can still contemplate why this would be the case with trb. [23:36]
mircea_popescu heck, isn't the whole v system technically speaking just this ? [23:36]
asciilifeform sure is. [23:36]
mircea_popescu so then.... still not sure this is wrong. [23:37]
mircea_popescu ddt persuasiveness notwithstanding. [23:37]
asciilifeform it isn't ~wrong~, merely annoying. [23:37]
mircea_popescu the brothel is also "just another way for housewife to win", at least according to her. [23:37]
asciilifeform gotta decide how much ddt you want to spray in your living room. [23:37]
asciilifeform this is in some ways a personal choice. [23:37]
phf i thought whole exercise is to produce byte to byte equivalent binaries, as another step in verification process. "sealed vpatches -> press -> binary -> shasum" [23:38]
mircea_popescu where this comparison breaks down is that your biology is fundamentally cunt-based and perl-run. you necessarily respirate the ddt. meanwhile, your mental life is supposed to be hermetic and under your control. you shouldn't fucking respirate the environment wtf. [23:38]
mircea_popescu phf yeah. [23:38]
asciilifeform (the ultimate thermonuclear version of this is to ~randomly generate~ a cpu arch, instantiate on an fpga ~and generate a compiler~, and compile for THAT! and i was very sad as a student to discover that one cristina cifuentes invented this long before i did) [23:38]
mircea_popescu and i appreciate your "is to produce" construction :) [23:38]
mircea_popescu for they not blessed with knowledge of actual languages, there's significant aspectual difference between "is to produce" which talks of the state, like to be, and "produces", which talks of movement. [23:40]
asciilifeform and wow, that name was buried in the nethermost depths of my skull before this convo. [23:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform women in tech. [23:40]
asciilifeform i have nfi if it even was an actual woman. [23:40]
asciilifeform was just a name. [23:40]
mircea_popescu yeah is woman, worked for oracle. [23:41]
mircea_popescu you mean her, no ? [23:41]
asciilifeform probably [23:41]
mircea_popescu reverse compilation techniques etc [23:41]
asciilifeform << aha [23:41]
asciilifeform ^ thesis [23:41]
assbot ... ( ) [23:41]
asciilifeform had an almost-useful x86 decompiler before 'hexray'. [23:42]
asciilifeform first, afaik. [23:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18309 @ 0.00057733 = 10.5703 BTC [-] {2} [23:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4441 @ 0.00057628 = 2.5593 BTC [-] [23:51]
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asciilifeform now i gotta ask, how does mircea_popescu know that it was 'actual woman' [23:56]
asciilifeform met in the flesh ? [23:56]
mircea_popescu nah. [23:57]
asciilifeform << lulz! apple 'wins' [23:58]
assbot ... ( ) [23:58]
asciilifeform mega-muppet-warz [23:58]
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