Forum logs for 22 Nov 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform 'I am curious as to how many jurors they went through before they found a non Costco member.....or if they did.' << from commentz [00:02]
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phf funkenstein_: alan kay's objects communicate with each other by sending messages. this is the approach taken explicitly in smalltalk, flavors (one of the lisp machine lisps), objective-c. the idea was inspired by john mccarthy's earlier concept of agents, intelligent systems that engage into q/a sessions with a user. a concurrent take on the same idea is called actors model and is implemented in erlang (and a bunch of other languages, [00:16]
phf but that's the well known one). [00:16]
phf [00:16]
phf i was saying that agents/actor is the only valuable dydactic take on object orientation in real world, it both properly traces oop history and also has meaningful parallels in biology and physics. [00:17]
phf a lot of "expected" oop behaviors like objects owning methods, synchronous bidirectional messaging that is equivalent to a procedure call, extreme early binding, etc. are artifacts of implementation and optimization strategies, as such they don't have meaning, don't have "real world" correspondence and just are. building taxonomies on such a shaky theoretical foundation results in a very messy thinking [00:18]
asciilifeform phf: the last 20+ yrs of nonlisp resulted in the typical sane and technically-literate fella having an extreme allergy to just about any mention of oop [00:22]
asciilifeform (see, e.g., mircea_popescu's reaction when the subject was brought up) [00:22]
asciilifeform because - like it or not - when you walk into the book shop, or even the university library, today, and look for oop - you don't get a. kay's smalltalk, s. keene's clos, or kiczales's 'metaobject protocol.' you get: java, 'gang of four', and other swill. [00:24]
asciilifeform and we're actually long past the point where a typical instructor (phd) learned on the latter [00:24]
asciilifeform and on NONE of the actual classics of the subject [00:25]
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mircea_popescu on top of which, i suspect there's a large chunk of "strange woman" in all this also. [00:43]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ?? [00:44]
mircea_popescu (ie, we don't even know the sore spots of say kay objects, mostly because they never got a chance to be found mostly because idiots came and covered everything) [00:44]
asciilifeform eh not quite, we have some idea [00:44]
mircea_popescu ie, "wouldn't the strange woman in the train made a great wife" [00:44]
mircea_popescu "no. she snores." [00:44]
mircea_popescu maybe. [00:44]
asciilifeform talk to the smalltalk aficionados. [00:44]
asciilifeform (there are sore spots, aha. but this one here's a woman and the other one is a sack of potatoes with fuckhole drilled in) [00:45]
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mircea_popescu well sure/ [00:45]
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adlai new TLD for the W, DC: .orc [00:48]
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mircea_popescu !up dub [00:48]
-assbot- You voiced dub for 30 minutes. [00:49]
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mircea_popescu ;;seen dub [00:49]
gribble dub was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 30 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 23 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: hey now! meatspace can be busy [00:49]
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mircea_popescu https://www.freelancer.com/work/polimedia-us-spam/1/ [00:55]
mircea_popescu https://www.freelancer.com.au/job-search/polimedia-us-spam/ [00:55]
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mircea_popescu meanwhile this unintentionally humorous "company" continues unabated. [00:56]
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mircea_popescu i wanted to make a freelancer.com killed three fucking years ago. they only got MORe ridiculous in the interval. [00:56]
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asciilifeform is that thing even plugged in [00:56]
asciilifeform to anything. [00:57]
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mircea_popescu exacrtly like all the iac "properties" are [00:58]
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mircea_popescu plugged in the bahamas "helping the economy" printing press process on one end, [00:59]
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mircea_popescu flailing wildly in the wind otherwise. [00:59]
asciilifeform what would happen if mr bahama dispensed with the requirement for these folks of pretending-to-work ? [00:59]
mircea_popescu nothing. [00:59]
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mircea_popescu http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/iaci << look at that fcucking shit. [01:00]
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mircea_popescu this entire thing is worth less than icbit.se [01:00]
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asciilifeform presumably less of the spew ? [01:00]
asciilifeform 'The Princeton Review' << l0l!!! world's spammiest exam prep outfit [01:01]
mircea_popescu all of it is pure spam. [01:01]
mircea_popescu "oh i know, let's create 10k "female" accounts a day, message some derps twice and "delete". fuck will they know" [01:01]
mircea_popescu and indeed, as experience shows, they don't. [01:02]
mircea_popescu i would so love it if the world was backed on firm currency, i'd so fucking murder all these shits. o brother. [01:02]
asciilifeform has to work with a butugychag (or other biodiesel facility) to house the present-day occupants of spamco [01:03]
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phf asciilifeform: rightly so, conversation around oop is long rotten, they are working over fp now :) above wall of text is more of an archaeological find [01:43]
phf but nice thing about log, can talk без купюр, get called out. otherwise it's of little relevance what sort of education phds get or what you can buy at a bookstore. we're sort of long on the same page that status quo is subpar [01:44]
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ben_vulpes phf: без купюр? [02:15]
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ben_vulpes in re fp, dunno that anyone noticed, but i backpedaled from the global state fatwa in my v poc [02:16]
ben_vulpes tres annoying to pass the same args around constantly. [02:16]
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phf ben_vulpes: "without cuts", купюра is from french coupure, and in this case means the parts that are cut out by the censor [02:30]
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phf it's actually from latin caesura, which is now used as the name of pause in a poem. i thought caesarean section comes from that, but wikipedia article has a very confusing "etymology" section so i don't even know what to believe anymore! [02:35]
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ben_vulpes ah [02:48]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes he means he can talk without bothering with the annoying sorts of context. [03:20]
ben_vulpes hm [03:22]
ben_vulpes i might begin to be understanding [03:22]
ben_vulpes speaking without cuts then means to communicate intelligibly even without the bits that the censors stripped? [03:22]
mircea_popescu or without the baby crying. [03:23]
ben_vulpes is there some russian joke in there about how the bits that are cut are never the relevant ones? [03:23]
mircea_popescu the fundamental point of the written word is that allows a certain sort of abstraction. it's "escapism" in a particular sense. [03:23]
mircea_popescu the log system takes this fundamentally further. [03:23]
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ben_vulpes because a corpus through which one can grep exists, the forum can on an ongoing basis can communicate ever more abstractly? [03:26]
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mircea_popescu i don't think we mean the same by abstraction. it's not a sort of cool. it's basically purification. [03:28]
mircea_popescu like in "he was spirited away", "we abstracted him away" [03:29]
mircea_popescu phf the problem with the village of ugly women is that well, there's probably something wrong with the water. yes the people now involved may be subpar for whatever reason or explanation to do with them. maybe. or maybe THIS offshot of the hope to ai is just as rotten as the rest of the various attempts to ai that preceded it. [03:30]
mircea_popescu for reasons to do with that, instead. [03:30]
mircea_popescu (what apparently nobody wants to mention is that the "good" oop now corrupted by teh evil orcs was really a child of desperation. pretty much born out of the mit through c-section, in the classical sense) [03:31]
mircea_popescu (there's a very good reason they keep going on with cow and dog are animal. there was a great paper in the log about "you know what, just change your chosen names to hashes, see if teh system appears to be doing as much "understanding" as it did before.) [03:33]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i meant abstraction in the sense of software that composes small tools into larger units that...operate at a higher level of abstraction. [03:33]
mircea_popescu you have no fucking idea what that word means, do you. [03:33]
ben_vulpes apparently not! [03:33]
ben_vulpes what does it mean then. [03:33]
mircea_popescu abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed. [03:34]
* ben_vulpes roars [03:35]
ben_vulpes SOUNDS A LOT LIKE WRITING SOFTWARE [03:35]
ben_vulpes i kid, i kid. [03:35]
trinque http://amix.dk/uploads/picasso_bull.jpg [03:36]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MK3pJe ) [03:36]
mircea_popescu romanian joke, for you. man sitting at desk, dog next to him pissing in his shoe. [03:36]
mircea_popescu guy comes in, "hey, isn't that dog pissing in your shoe bothering you ?!" [03:36]
mircea_popescu "fac abstractie." [03:36]
mircea_popescu (i am abstracting) [03:36]
ben_vulpes heh [03:38]
mircea_popescu in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/186b118d7872656083275f142326edad/tumblr_mgf1plcMTW1rmkahco1_1280.jpg [03:42]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MK3XyF ) [03:42]
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punkman speaking of Alan Kay, I recently stumbled on one of his inane ted-style talks, and his lets-reinvent-computars project http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm [04:26]
assbot Viewpoints Research Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkoyPQ ) [04:26]
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deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Get Shorty. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/11/22/get-shorty/ [05:10]
punkman saw this in the cinema long time ago. puts it on rewatch list. [05:20]
punkman http://bookzz.org/book/1272987/e8c77c [05:42]
assbot I'll Go Home Then, It's Warm and Has Chairs: The Unpublished Emails. | David Thorne | digital library bookzz ... ( http://bit.ly/21bjUrg ) [05:42]
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punkman http://boingboing.net/2015/11/21/southwest-airlines-surrenders.html [07:18]
assbot Southwest Airlines surrenders to racists, refuses boarding to Arab-American passengers / Boing Boing ... ( http://bit.ly/1N1pDFL ) [07:18]
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shinohai !s http://cointelegraph.com/news/115703/delta-id-coin-new-utility-altcoin-developed-for-timestamping-system <<< why??? [10:27]
assbot Just a moment... ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvMkVt ) [10:27]
assbot 0 results for 'http://cointelegraph.com/news/115703/delta-id-coin-new-utility-altcoin-developed-for-timestamping-system <<< why???' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fcointelegraph.com%2Fnews%2F115703%2Fdelta-id-coin-new-utility-altcoin-developed-for-timestamping-system+++%3C%3C%3C+why%3F%3F%3F [10:27]
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mircea_popescu punkman guy is like 75 or some shit. [10:50]
mircea_popescu fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king. [10:50]
mircea_popescu o yeah get shorty is good. sort of like early pulp fiction / snatch [10:53]
mircea_popescu meh, epub. i'll wait for the text version. [10:55]
punkman epub is text [10:55]
punkman this one at least [10:55]
mircea_popescu shinohai because there are way more people than jobs. [10:55]
mircea_popescu punkman i just went in a cycle asking "then why the fuck are they not calling it .txt" and answering myself the line above to shinohai and now i feel a little queasy. [10:56]
punkman lol [10:56]
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mircea_popescu PK^C^D ^@^@^@^@^@ [11:00]
mircea_popescu lies. [11:00]
punkman you can unzip the epub, you'll get html [11:01]
mircea_popescu a ty. [11:03]
mircea_popescu "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent" [11:04]
mircea_popescu what the motherfucking shit is wrong with these people. [11:04]
mircea_popescu "oh look, i wrote some words down, now you gotta do what i say!!1" [11:05]
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mircea_popescu said every obnoxious 9 yo girl having experienced insufficient ponytail pulling. [11:05]
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BingoBoingo ;;later tell mitch_callahan your connection is doing that thing again [11:06]
gribble The operation succeeded. [11:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00050963 = 18.3976 BTC [-] {4} [11:08]
mircea_popescu [11:08]
mircea_popescu PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" [11:08]
mircea_popescu "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd"> [11:08]
mircea_popescu xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> [11:08]
mircea_popescu content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=utf-8" /> [11:08]
mircea_popescu http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css" /> [11:08]
mircea_popescu name="generator" content="Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0" [11:08]
mircea_popescu href="styles.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" />

[11:08]
mircea_popescu id="navPoint_1">Foreword

[11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> 

[11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">Hello. Thank you for buying this [11:08]
mircea_popescu book. Or at least the [11:08]
mircea_popescu e-book. I laid this out [11:08]
mircea_popescu myself and I have never done an e-book layout before so [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">I [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">apologise [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> in advance [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">if [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">it isn’t very good. I probably [11:08]
mircea_popescu should have put in more effort but you know how it is. With round the [11:08]
mircea_popescu clock episodes of Property Virgins on HGTV and sleeping to do, there never [11:08]
mircea_popescu seems [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> enough hours in the day. [11:08]
mircea_popescu Also, r [11:08]
mircea_popescu style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">ather than go to any real effort, I [11:08]
mircea_popescu thought it would be easier to simply collect all the material I have [11:08]
mircea_popescu written that didn’t make it into the first book, either due to timing, [11:08]
mircea_popescu space, legal issues, or not being very good, and put them in this one. [11:08]
mircea_popescu

[11:08]

mircea_popescu sans-serif"> 

[11:08]

mircea_popescu sans-serif">Hosting fees are e [11:08]
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mircea_popescu would you look at this stupid shit! [11:08]
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kakobrekla srs. [11:09]
mircea_popescu take some text, put it through "Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0" so you can have for every other word like in the old days of microsoft computing, and then zip the shit and call it "epub". [11:09]
mircea_popescu fucking hell already. go make altcoins, people. [11:10]
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mitch_callahan ahh sorry BingoBoingo, its this stupid Mac client I'm using. i'll remove it today. [11:11]
mircea_popescu "hosting fees are expensive" my foot. they're only expensive because "oh i just wanna be a designer" all over the place. [11:11]
punkman https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/502526058.jpg saw Uncle Vanya yesterday. here's the set chekov-gun'd until the fucking picture frames are empty. [11:12]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1T82IOj ) [11:12]
mircea_popescu vaguely related http://45.media.tumblr.com/8c442cfeab1c18787e269f2899b09a41/tumblr_mfk5a3wM1t1rv5wh5o1_500.gif [11:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1kOAQn5 ) [11:20]
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deedbot- [Trilema] Fuck you and your stupid epub. Also, David Thorne's 2nd book (it isn't really very good). - http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good/ [13:02]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329599 >> 'the map is not the territory but the territory didn't fit in my glove compartment' [13:02]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed. [13:02]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329616 >> snore, this is what happens if you live too long - old, 'respectable', impotent [13:03]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 07:22:09; punkman: speaking of Alan Kay, I recently stumbled on one of his inane ted-style talks, and his lets-reinvent-computars project http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm [13:03]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329646 >> perhaps somebody will have the basic decency to feed me a bullet prior [13:03]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 13:46:27; mircea_popescu: fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king. [13:03]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329651 >> but there are ~precisely~ as many people as there are picks at butugychag [13:04]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 13:51:32; mircea_popescu: shinohai because there are way more people than jobs. [13:04]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329659 >> see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=918 [13:04]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 13:59:58; mircea_popescu: "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent" [13:04]
assbot Loper OS » To Lend is the Right of an Owner – That is, Not You. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TY5dDA ) [13:04]
asciilifeform 'To those who would retain their right to personal property: your only true allies are the pirates. Not “lending libraries”, not “reasonably priced” and “humane” iTunes-like services. The pirates are the only people presently defending the no-compromise, My-Computer-is-Mine point of view.' -- yours truly [13:05]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329662 << gianni rodari had a rhyme about 'the girl that wanted a song just for her and nobody else' [13:06]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 14:01:19; mircea_popescu: said every obnoxious 9 yo girl having experienced insufficient ponytail pulling. [13:06]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329655 << the 'PK' didn't give it away ?? [13:09]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 13:55:36; mircea_popescu: PK^C^D ^@^@^@^@^@ [13:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform only after he said. [13:10]
asciilifeform y'know, 0x50 0x4B 0x03 0x04. [13:11]
* asciilifeform nostalgic [13:11]
mircea_popescu that part of my brain has been overwritten by tits. [13:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform speaking of defending, see the latest trilema. [13:12]
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* asciilifeform reading it presently [13:13]
* asciilifeform briefly took a break from debugging a motherfucking debugger [13:13]
mircea_popescu lol [13:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja actually swallow that whole thing ? [13:16]
mircea_popescu what ? [13:16]
asciilifeform the thorne turd [13:16]
mircea_popescu well yes. [13:16]
mircea_popescu it's just 400kb or so. [13:16]
asciilifeform it isn't the weight [13:16]
asciilifeform but the... contents [13:17]
mircea_popescu which i suppose counts for "368" pages in lalaland wherew they do 1k characters per page. [13:17]
mircea_popescu what about them ? [13:17]
* mircea_popescu shudders at the thought he actually had to "turn a page" every 1k bytes. [13:17]
mircea_popescu god damned it i'd rather be a z80/ [13:18]
mircea_popescu books are for german kids, really, the sort that grew up waddled at the ankles. [13:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ergo the popularity of mechanized b00kz [13:18]
mircea_popescu what the fuck is wrong wiht plain text omfg. [13:18]
asciilifeform aside from maths - nothing [13:19]
asciilifeform for the most part that is what i keep around on dead tree [13:19]
mircea_popescu a) none of these derps know any maths and b) i do and somehow survive. if you need a particular notation to do maths either you're not very good or are trying to talk to idiots. [13:19]
* asciilifeform would like to read mircea_popescu's notation-less mathematical work. i bet it is rather like euclid on lsd [13:20]
kakobrekla like feynman and his diagrams. total idiot. [13:20]
asciilifeform and fuck leibniz aha [13:20]
* mircea_popescu retreats growling audibly. [13:21]
jurov i'd like to see natural language applied to programming, too [13:23]
asciilifeform jurov: ever use 'hypertalk' ? [13:23]
asciilifeform jurov: you can see a little bit in one of my old articles, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568 [13:23]
assbot Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1U578pU ) [13:23]
asciilifeform (imho the idea of 'natural language program' is fundamentally, deeply braindamaged like few other ideas) [13:24]
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mircea_popescu "natural languages" != "alphabetic notation". [13:27]
mircea_popescu i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere. [13:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36155 @ 0.00052348 = 18.9264 BTC [-] {3} [13:28]
mircea_popescu there is a fucking reason white people are better than all the other people, and it has jack shit to do with the skin. [13:28]
mircea_popescu a lot more to do with the brilliant idea of "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother." [13:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67045 @ 0.00052406 = 35.1356 BTC [+] {3} [13:29]
jurov adding a meaning for a word that already has zillion of other meanings, instead of using dedicated symbol is NOT reducing complexity [13:31]
mircea_popescu and you know this how ? [13:31]
jurov from experience [13:31]
jurov and you? [13:32]
mircea_popescu but does your experience also include what i actually said above, or just what you saw in it ? [13:32]
mircea_popescu i said "clamp down in one place" not "reduce". how the fuck are you goingto reduce complexity and why aren't you moving on to entropy next! [13:32]
jurov you explicitly named the place as "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother." [13:33]
mircea_popescu aha. [13:33]
mircea_popescu think of it as a boat. [13:33]
mircea_popescu the boat does not make the ocean level any lower. [13:33]
mircea_popescu except it allows you to stay dry. [13:33]
mircea_popescu (it actually makes the level raise slightly, but that is part of the "hope and pray" definition of abstraction yesterday - we hope and pray it dun matter.) [13:34]
jurov that's finest advocacy of humanist pseudosciences i ever saw [13:35]
jurov they try to take existing language and leverage it, too [13:36]
mircea_popescu 👍 [13:37]
gribble Error: "#128077;" is not a valid command. [13:37]
mircea_popescu 11110000:10011111:10010001:10001101 [13:37]
mircea_popescu you know what i mean... [13:37]
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mircea_popescu anyway, again not sure why this isn't obvious, but the alphabet is (still is, in spite of all the "help" geeks gave it) a defined, closed, easily countable set. [13:43]
mircea_popescu "natural language" isn't even defined. [13:43]
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asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329763 << with regards to mathematics, it was ~specifically~ about tying folks' dirty, sticky, shit-covered 'intuitive language brain' monkey hands and forcing formal reasoning [13:52]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 16:23:54; mircea_popescu: i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere. [13:52]
mircea_popescu aha. [13:52]
mircea_popescu which is why this "no but math notation" argument is so bifurcacious. [13:53]
asciilifeform take, for instance, http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/hypercard-calc/hc23.jpg << this. it took me perhaps 20 whole minutes to crap out. know why ? [13:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCyVCf ) [13:53]
asciilifeform the reason was that using english as it permits itself to be used, specifically fails, in ways which the hypertalk docs did not take any pains to describe [13:53]
asciilifeform (in short, the disambiguation has to be done like-so; and you can use pronouns, but only like-so) [13:54]
asciilifeform overall much more pain, imho, than any ordinary programming language. [13:54]
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trinque interesting. there you see that abstraction increases complexity clearly, by way of an exaggerated case [13:55]
asciilifeform idiot abstraction balloons up complexity like nothing else [13:56]
trinque SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers" [13:56]
asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/romankbd.png [13:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCzeNs ) [13:56]
trinque they at (the very) least made something of a double-back somewhere along the language's history [13:56]
thestringpuller trinque: that's an apt observation of SQL. [13:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform same problem is why everyone hates what originally seemed obvious and intuitive : the text powered adventure [13:57]
mircea_popescu motherfucker i hated larry's comprehension. [13:57]
asciilifeform trying to make a programming language for ~the wrong side of the camel hump~ is like trying to build a car for folks missing both arms and legs [13:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: precisely that [13:57]
thestringpuller what's with all the danny devito reviews on da blogs? [13:57]
mircea_popescu no. bad analogy. [13:57]
mircea_popescu it's like trying to make trains for cixi [13:57]
asciilifeform ^ [13:57]
mircea_popescu as far as her dumb ass is concerned, the best possible train is a ghetto blaster with the volume welded to low, playing christmas carrols from under the mirrors-ensconced speakers. [13:59]
mircea_popescu in other news, "you should perhaps point out to your mother that being ugly is no excuse to rawdog drunks" is my new favourite insult. [14:05]
* asciilifeform mumbles something about $chipvendor rawdogging drunks [14:09]
* asciilifeform has 'wrath' bit set [14:09]
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thestringpuller "the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album [14:13]
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asciilifeform mips_ejtag_drscan_8_out(ejtag_info, MCHP_DE_ASSERT_RST); << motherfuckers. WE ARE SO SPESHUL, can't use standard mips reset ahahaha. [14:18]
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kakobrekla SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers" < yet is anyone still writing raw queries in this day? [14:20]
mircea_popescu pretty much every time i want something from trilema i SELECT by hand [14:21]
asciilifeform ^ [14:21]
mircea_popescu i really have no idea why i'd want a language on top of that. what's it going to do ? [14:22]
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trinque frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying [14:23]
fluffypony kakobrekla: I write raw queries a few times a week [14:23]
mircea_popescu the only way it could be useful is if it somehow intuited what the columns are actually named for me so i don't have to always keep checking [14:23]
mircea_popescu but that ain't happening [14:23]
kakobrekla you dont need 'functionality' to SELECT from wp-posts [14:24]
asciilifeform intuited << see one of the better mr mold pieces re: same, http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html [14:24]
assbot Unqualified Reservations: Wolfram Alpha and hubristic user interfaces ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCBDHG ) [14:24]
asciilifeform '...control interfaces must not be intelligent. Briefly, intelligent user interfaces should be limited to applications in which the user does not expect to control the behavior of the product. If the product is used as a tool, its interface should be as unintelligent as possible. Stupid is predictable; predictable is learnable; learnable is usable.' [14:24]
trinque kakobrekla: it is amusing though, yes, that this that was originally intended to be a user interface got buried as it did [14:25]
kakobrekla i find raw queries disgusting [14:25]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: do you find the tool disgusting, or the work ? [14:25]
asciilifeform folks tend to confuse the two [14:25]
kakobrekla perhaps both. [14:26]
fluffypony SELECT * FROM kakobrekla_brain WHERE is_disgusting=1; [14:26]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i know how to do joins and everything! [14:26]
mircea_popescu what functionality are you talking about ? [14:26]
fluffypony ORDER BY last_disgusted_date DESC; [14:26]
fluffypony :-P [14:26]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu probably also knows how to change a crankshaft. but does he ~want~ to. [14:27]
mircea_popescu and honestly i don't mind it so much. about the same as my life generally, really. [14:27]
mircea_popescu "bring me this" "fetch me a that" "kill that schmuck" [14:27]
mircea_popescu if you're going to rule people you gotta be able to somehow explain what you actually want done and raw queries are really not far off. [14:28]
asciilifeform ah but machine doesn't typically respond to whipping [14:28]
mircea_popescu nor needs it. [14:28]
asciilifeform which is why man so often becomes servant of machine, rather than vice versa [14:28]
asciilifeform stuck 'wrestling with the pig' [14:29]
mircea_popescu i would much rather spend five minutes writing queries than figuring why the fuck copy *. doesn't work and ending up using cat [14:30]
mircea_popescu seriously, leaving aside everything else, why the fuck would you make THIRTY EIGHT DIFFERENT FILES ? [14:30]
mircea_popescu what is this "chapter" thing and why is it in your epub^H^H^H^H zipfile ? [14:31]
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jurov i'm okay with sql. but when programatically constructing a query, i prefer sqlalchemy [14:36]
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kakobrekla most folks most of the time dont need 'functionality', just like with sugar. [14:42]
asciilifeform see also mircea_popescu's 'this is a spiffy rifle, i'll take it fishing and to bed' [14:43]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla no but seriously, i'm at least partly here to learn, so what functionality is it ? like a good example. [14:43]
kakobrekla this one:
frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying
[14:44]
kakobrekla ask trinq. [14:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16361 @ 0.00051362 = 8.4033 BTC [-] [15:18]
assbot [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 30000 @ 0.000209 = 6.27 BTC [-] [15:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00051366 = 13.9202 BTC [+] {2} [15:23]
trinque mircea_popescu │ kakobrekla no but seriously, i'm at least partly here to learn, so what functionality is it ? like a good example. << this I think calls for careful steps and a machete [15:25]
trinque the huge problem with relational databases is that they conflated programming and declarative data access to the detriment of both [15:26]
trinque one place you'll find c-like expressions and functions; another you find set union and difference operators which work entirely via magic [15:26]
trinque this magic is why (as I understand it) asciilifeform abhors the thing; you have in no way been involved with what steps will be taken to compute the result other than describing the result itself, barring again, the places where actual programming crept back in [15:27]
trinque the usefulness of this declarative mode is I think as you describe, "get me a that" damn it, because I want one. [15:29]
trinque aside this, any work I'm doing in databases has been indefinitely postponed until I understand CLOS far better, and review what was done atop it [15:29]
kakobrekla if you think you have done away with magick using raw queries you are mistaken [15:30]
trinque nah, I am saying the db is magic to the core. [15:30]
trinque horrible chimera [15:30]
kakobrekla the layer on top (at least mine) generates queries deterministically and the result is not obstructed [15:31]
trinque use objects at that layer? [15:31]
kakobrekla optionally [15:31]
trinque SQLAlchemy or the like? [15:31]
kakobrekla i havent used sqla, i guess its is probably similar though i cant say for sure [15:32]
* kakobrekla doesnt use off shelf solution [15:33]
trinque cool [15:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MG] 59700 @ 0.00011016 = 6.5766 BTC [+] {2} [15:34]
jurov some people went boldly to solve RDBMS problem... and created MongoDB. *cringe* [15:36]
trinque myeah, that thing is a sin [15:36]
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asciilifeform there are 'people' programming computers who wouldn't have been allowed within cannon shot of a tractor in kolhoz, yes [15:37]
trinque jurov: I simply wish to sit with my data-set and say "give me the X for which this lambda evaluates true, retrieve its related Y and Z, compute this aggregate over the related Y and Z; do this again with another lambda. Return the paginated list of the intersection of the two result sets" [15:38]
trinque I'm sure this could be done rather well atop CLOS with no other monstrosities involved [15:39]
trinque and the observation which led to databases in the first place is that questions like the above arise constantly; they are not thought of once and etched into the program in stone [15:40]
trinque these document stores are nothing more than "What, you don't already know the key of the value you want?" and subsequently "Well fuck, how do we tack relational ideas back onto this, now that we've abandoned all notion of formal structure?" [15:41]
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asciilifeform http://siliconexposed.blogspot.com/2014_03_01_archive.html << unrelated but very spiffy [15:41]
assbot Silicon Exposed: March 2014 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SSZkpN ) [15:41]
asciilifeform 'Once the via was drilled and it appeared we had made contact with the signal trace, it was time to backfill with platinum. The video below is sped up 10x to avoid boring my readers ;)' [15:41]
asciilifeform 'Once everything was done and the chamber was vented I removed the carbon coating with oxygen plasma (the cleanroom's standard photoresist removal process), packaged up my sample, went home, and soldered it back to the board for testing. After powering it up... nothing! The device was as dead as a doornail, I couldn't even get a JTAG IDCODE from it. ... ... ruled out beam-induced damage as I had not been hitting any of the I/O [15:43]
asciilifeform circuitry with the ion beam ... I realized what was going on almost instantly: the antenna effect. The bond wire and leadframe connected to each pad in the device was acting as an antenna and coupling some of the 13.56 MHz RF energy from the plasma into the input buffers, blowing out the ESD diodes and input transistors, and leaving me with a dead chip.' [15:43]
mircea_popescu trinque can i get "this" and "that" comparisons of the actual thing ? "ceci n'est pas une pipe" "this is not a pipe" sort of thing [15:53]
jurov trinque i'd rather have lazy evaluator that collects the filters and operations I normally have in the program, and compiles them together into optimized query and executes it only when the result is needed [15:54]
jurov but that's hard AI, I'm afrraid [15:54]
trinque mircea_popescu: the mismatch I was referring to was the object-relational-mapper; it cannot for example (easily, or usably) create a new object which is the synthesis of n other objects done by inner join [15:55]
trinque on the SQL side you're more than welcome to create new sets at will via views [15:55]
mircea_popescu aha... [15:57]
jurov i don't see why this of all is the problem, objects usually know which table/column is the field wired to [16:00]
trinque there are sets which are derived from operations on other sets [16:01]
trinque "an active_customer is one with an active_subscription and an enabled flag and..." [16:02]
jurov as long as all the values take their primary keys with them, you're fine [16:02]
trinque this is not the point [16:03]
jurov for me biggest prob was the consistency, in any nontrivial ORM situation you build the objects partially, must take care of constraints... db that defers checking constraints to commit would help, but then how do you report it to user... hairiness [16:05]
trinque and actually you're going to end up looking at SQL ASTs to figure out where a column came from [16:05]
trinque jurov: *that* was my point [16:05]
trinque that using an ORM you duplicate what the DB can already do [16:06]
trinque why not derive your JS form validator or whatever from your db constraint? [16:06]
trinque "because SQL" << and now we're back to me writing a CL RDBMS [16:06]
mircea_popescu for some reason these all sound to me like "the problems we get for having a bad db design" [16:07]
mircea_popescu if one structures his tables sanely then none of these complex requests exiswt [16:07]
jurov i see [16:07]
trinque that's certainly so, that you either pick a sane table structure, or you write terrible queries [16:09]
jurov hahaha and then is not able to detect glaring errors...because "dis doth not exist!!111" [16:09]
jurov *mpex is [16:09]
trinque and my most complex queries have typically involved converting one schema to another one time, and then throwing away the queries [16:09]
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jurov !up linton_s_dawson [16:15]
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jurov pls don't thank me [16:15]
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jurov !up tripleslash [16:20]
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jurov !up imposter [16:20]
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imposter Herro [16:21]
jurov hey [16:25]
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wyrdmantis mircea_popescu can i have eulora login? [16:28]
mircea_popescu wyrdmantis aite 1sec [16:29]
wyrdmantis sure [16:29]
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mircea_popescu wyrdmantis http://dpaste.com/1HV52PK [16:32]
assbot dpaste: 1HV52PK ... ( http://bit.ly/1N6t8yX ) [16:33]
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mircea_popescu "After fifteen years in the design industry and realising the only difference between sitting in front of a computer facilitating client's requests and kneeling on the urine soaked floor of a truck stop bathroom giving five dollar blowjobs to men named Chuck, is the amount of urine on the floor, the Jumping Frog fee has evolved from insurance against post-project client suggestion to client incentive to have somebody e [16:54]
mircea_popescu lse do it." [16:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17188 @ 0.00051288 = 8.8154 BTC [-] {3} [17:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00051482 = 19.2543 BTC [+] {3} [17:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26143 @ 0.00051213 = 13.3886 BTC [-] {2} [17:47]
phf ;;later tell wyrdmantis PMed, but not sure if you got it before timeouting. http://www.eulorum.org/OS_X works, let me know if you run into any issues [17:51]
gribble The operation succeeded. [17:51]
assbot OS X - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTmdbo ) [17:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35040 @ 0.0005113 = 17.916 BTC [-] [17:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00051573 = 17.638 BTC [+] {3} [17:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00051572 = 3.249 BTC [-] {2} [18:14]
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BingoBoingo Look who got automated nao http://buttcoinfoundation.org/rogerverification/ [18:44]
assbot Roger Verification Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1bbUR ) [18:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68650 @ 0.00051186 = 35.1392 BTC [-] {5} [18:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00051869 = 8.8437 BTC [+] {3} [18:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42907 @ 0.00052235 = 22.4125 BTC [+] {3} [18:52]
BingoBoingo lol, Reddit is nao using traditional spam to fill its content quotas https://archive.is/wQQyC [18:56]
assbot New SEO Marketing Company in San Antonio : neckbeardstories ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1ca7A ) [18:56]
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mircea_popescu i actually get more "web designer" spam than "seo expert" spam. [19:20]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski, ben_vulpes, et al: motherfucking crapple. ~4 hrs disassembly to swap a measely inverter cable [20:16]
pete_dushenski for the unawares, what SHOULD it take ? [20:17]
asciilifeform 0. [20:17]
asciilifeform in civilized iron this is not a wear component ! [20:18]
pete_dushenski l0l [20:18]
pete_dushenski 'designed by apple in california, etc.' [20:18]
asciilifeform aha [20:18]
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asciilifeform 'a1181' if anyone gives half a fuck. [20:18]
pete_dushenski for macbook air ? [20:19]
* assbot gives voice to punkman [20:19]
asciilifeform nah the other one. [20:19]
asciilifeform ('air' has no high voltage supply to the panel, as it is from led era) [20:19]
pete_dushenski the airbook mac then ? [20:19]
asciilifeform the whateverthefuck the a1181 is. [20:20]
asciilifeform http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.4-black-13-early-2008-penryn-specs.html << it [20:20]
assbot MacBook "Core 2 Duo" 2.4 13" (Black-08) Specs (Early 2008, MB404LL/A, MacBook4,1, A1181, 2242) @ EveryMac.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLwIeg ) [20:20]
pete_dushenski aha. brother had it. [20:21]
pete_dushenski i was 'pro' user, wouldn't touch this. [20:21]
asciilifeform i wouldn't either [20:21]
pete_dushenski wtf are you doing dinking around with one on the first place ? [20:21]
asciilifeform it is for pet [20:21]
pete_dushenski must be some kinda pet. [20:22]
asciilifeform used for many years, and will use until the chinese stop making parts [20:22]
mircea_popescu how does the cable wear anyway ? badly placed fan ? [20:23]
asciilifeform fatigue [20:23]
asciilifeform (it runs through the hinge) [20:23]
mircea_popescu fatigue from what [20:23]
mircea_popescu it's not a fuciking bridge oh. [20:23]
mircea_popescu heh. [20:23]
asciilifeform open, close, open, close... [20:23]
asciilifeform this is the hv cable for the lamps [20:23]
asciilifeform everything about the box seemed to be ~designed~ to make repairs as miserable an affair as possible [20:26]
asciilifeform i'm kinda surprised they didn't fill the thing with glue and be done with it [20:26]
jurov you forgot trotyl [20:26]
asciilifeform ^ optional extra pheature [20:26]
asciilifeform iMine [20:27]
pete_dushenski iphn0e comes in gold casing for this precise reason [20:28]
mircea_popescu trotyl is more expensive than either the thing or the intended customer. [20:28]
asciilifeform ^ [20:28]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-11-2015#1327375 << cook reads logs, y'know [20:29]
assbot Logged on 19-11-2015 17:59:12; pete_dushenski: even place large quantity of gold in land mines. hell, make the land mines ~entirely~ out of gold. not like the yellow stuff has any better uses. [20:29]
* pete_dushenski is non-plussed by sequence of 'actual history' [20:29]
asciilifeform wut [20:29]
pete_dushenski the mines before phones or phones before mines thing [20:32]
mircea_popescu in other stories of fatigue, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md7ystNmei1qziluwo1_1280.jpg [20:32]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLyagM ) [20:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu would enjoy 'hall of the singing caryatids' by v. pelevin [20:32]
asciilifeform (exists in engl even) [20:33]
asciilifeform it is about this picture. [20:33]
* mircea_popescu is more into the "Brothel of intellectual lusts" take on female degradation than the flimsy political apropos take. [20:33]
asciilifeform it's more of the former than the latter [20:34]
mircea_popescu i guess no two people ever can read the same book [20:36]
asciilifeform if i ever bother to do a w4r3z scan, they could... [20:36]
mircea_popescu i never saw much in it (and in pelevin generally) other than "oh if only the holy tenets of TRUE socialism hadn't been /intinate/ or however you say that in russian [20:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you gotta be thinking of some other fella [20:37]
mircea_popescu isn't this the book with lena the "poor her" whore and that schmuck doing dune "the voice" v2.0 ? [20:38]
asciilifeform voice? [20:38]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329816 << duly noted for second instalment of comic. if. when. [20:39]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2015 17:09:00; thestringpuller: "the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album [20:39]
mircea_popescu ;;google "the voice" in dune [20:39]
gribble Voice - Dune Wiki - Frank Herbert, David Lynch, Sandworms - Wikia: ; Bene Gesserit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Dune (2000) - Lady Jessica using the voice against Stilgar - YouTube: [20:39]
mircea_popescu anyway, i get it, an entire generation of disenfranchised young russians figure they're great chaps and the fault must be in the women empowering the old farts. [20:44]
mircea_popescu meanwhile... [20:44]
mircea_popescu whatever, i dun feel like getting into it. [20:44]
pete_dushenski too much work on the sabbath ? [20:44]
mircea_popescu too much rehash. what am i, openssl ? [20:46]
pete_dushenski http://theaviationist.com/2015/11/20/iriaf-f-14s-escort-ruaf-tu-95/ << spiffy video inside. [20:46]
assbot The Aviationist » Watch this video of Iranian F-14 Tomcats escorting a Russian Tu-95 bomber during air strike in Syria ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLA15f ) [20:46]
mircea_popescu do those things even do anything ? [20:46]
mircea_popescu "oh oh airstrike" "ok and ?" "we took out their outhouse!111" [20:46]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you are no matter how hard i try. [20:46]
mircea_popescu here's a primer on airstrike efficiency : the brits did 7 (SEVEN!) mid-air refuellings for one of their rustbuckets to manage to drop ONE bomb on the one runway in the faulklands, "disabling" it [20:47]
mircea_popescu except the argentines fixed it that same day, and used it to land hercules for the entire duration of the conflict. [20:47]
* pete_dushenski isn't sure that 'bear' is supposed to do anything. [20:48]
mircea_popescu cost about 150mn to tear down (without counting amortisation and hr costs) and about 18k to fix. [20:48]
pete_dushenski that's backasswards terrorism [20:48]
mircea_popescu well, the ~$65 in box cutters the terrorists spent did bring down a 8-10bn piece of real estate. [20:49]
pete_dushenski ;;calc 9000000000/65 [20:50]
gribble 138461538.462 [20:50]
pete_dushenski ^healthy roi, that. [20:50]
pete_dushenski healthy *multiple [20:50]
pete_dushenski vs. [20:51]
pete_dushenski ;;calc 18000/150000000 [20:52]
gribble 0.00012 [20:52]
pete_dushenski one of these aggressors has too much money in their pockets, while the other knows full well the value of a dollar. [20:53]
mircea_popescu either that or possibly doesn't give a shit about caryatids. [20:54]
mircea_popescu defo one or the other. [20:54]
mircea_popescu supposedly (ro) intinate = (en) defiled, but im not too happy to it. tina is a derrogative for earth, soil. it's expected to be barren, powdery (but noit outright sand) and in generaly the equivalent of dirt. [20:56]
mircea_popescu intina is a verb, to en-dirt-y. [20:56]
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pete_dushenski https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjx5L_unKXJAhUCLYgKHf0-ClQQjBwIBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fd%2Fd9%2FPorch_of_the_Caryatids_from_angle.JPG&psig=AFQjCNHy0iPIzC_1v0U8RVTk5KbZLGOW2g&ust=1448322636396145 << these caryatids ? [20:57]
assbot Redirect Notice ... ( http://bit.ly/1N70qhw ) [20:57]
pete_dushenski https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Porch_of_the_Caryatids_from_angle.JPG << [20:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N70tKj ) [20:57]
mircea_popescu i had a great pic up lemme see if i can ever find anything again in this smoldering pile of everything that's my blog [20:58]
mircea_popescu back in a week. [20:58]
* asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu read the book in a language he actually speaks [21:00]
mircea_popescu i think i read it in french [21:00]
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mircea_popescu meh i can't find the happy dancing mantises. a well. [21:07]
mircea_popescu anyway, what was in your copy, asciilifeform ? [21:07]
asciilifeform well i have an english transl. lying around [21:07]
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asciilifeform perhaps will warez it once find my tripod and have a free shiva hand. [21:07]
mircea_popescu notrly the point is it ? [21:08]
pete_dushenski http://ashleys.co/image/133719961267 [21:08]
assbot wtf ily : Photo ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLDaC4 ) [21:08]
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asciilifeform it's a short & very lulzy yarn and none of the psychiatric weird mircea_popescu mentioned was in it... [21:08]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: wut [21:08]
mircea_popescu wait, is it actually a different story ? ie, not with these ? [21:08]
asciilifeform well, there was praying mantis involved [21:09]
punkman http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/02/1412244775608_wps_21_Dancing_mantises_Two_pray.jpg [21:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLDoZO ) [21:10]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: the result of training idjits that their words are the most important thing and that yelling 'rape' makes the 'rapist' stop voluntarily if not arrested by the police [21:10]
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pete_dushenski also, does anyone have a suggestion for viewing/using the tumblr dashboard that doesn't involve this latest invasion of spamz. every second fucking post is some derpy 'trending' meme that completely kills teh mood ! [21:12]
* asciilifeform doesn't have useful suggestions for viewing arsebook either [21:12]
asciilifeform or 'myspace', etc. [21:12]
asciilifeform why even. [21:12]
mircea_popescu punkman similar but no [21:12]
pete_dushenski because pr0nz [21:13]
asciilifeform the tards helpfully segregated themselves, why dig'em back up ? [21:13]
punkman asciilifeform: there is porn [21:13]
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asciilifeform 'this is a mousetrap.' 'bbbbutt there's cheeze!!11' [21:13]
punkman also describes computer [21:14]
pete_dushenski mousetrap grew up from nowhere seriously in last month. before that, fine. [21:14]
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punkman http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/3/12/1363096281744/18c47e23-73f4-4267-a10f-aa64e0dcef20-620x372.jpeg [21:21]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N73ryh ) [21:21]
punkman for BingoBoingo https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsnrMIRCIAEloK6.jpg [21:24]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N73Lx2 ) [21:24]
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trinque oh dear. [21:25]
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* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [21:26]
funkenstein_ lol we can file that cheese girl under "white are better" right? [21:30]
kakobrekla that is not eve cheese [21:31]
kakobrekla even* [21:31]
kakobrekla 5% cheese, 95% plastic [21:31]
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funkenstein_ well kako, at least labelled with only 26 characters like my fantasy of divine imagery [21:34]
pete_dushenski tripleslash: fix your connection wouldja [21:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96800 @ 0.00052051 = 50.3854 BTC [-] {4} [21:56]
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punkman http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20151121_WBC554.png [22:22]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NKACUP ) [22:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23832 @ 0.00052109 = 12.4186 BTC [+] {2} [22:28]
pete_dushenski ^that bar graph will be even lulzier in 50 years when those 'tech giants' 'go kodak' [22:28]
kakobrekla as it stands now, all ''german manufacturers' are using 'us tech' and no 'us tech firm' is using a 'german manufacturer' [22:30]
kakobrekla rounding errors are possible. [22:31]
pete_dushenski perhaps microshit notwithstanding, use != depend upon [22:32]
pete_dushenski there are ready replacements for apple, google, amazon, and facebook [22:33]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski found a replacement for apple ?!! [22:33]
asciilifeform pray tell ? [22:33]
asciilifeform is it a broomstick ? [22:33]
pete_dushenski this is from the perspective of 'deutschland manufaktur', recall [22:34]
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pete_dushenski wtf does volkswagen need crapple for exactly ? [22:34]
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asciilifeform if they were to attempt abandoning microshit - would be just as dependent on crapple. [22:35]
asciilifeform failing this, poettering. [22:35]
kakobrekla desktops for designing (with ps) and selling the outcome with ipads [22:36]
pete_dushenski yes, poettering, the 'us tech giant' [22:36]
asciilifeform omitting the x86 duopoly ? [22:36]
asciilifeform (soon to be intel monopoly) [22:36]
pete_dushenski we agree this is unlikely [22:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00051665 = 4.3915 BTC [-] {2} [22:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48726 @ 0.00051665 = 25.1743 BTC [-] {2} [22:45]
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mircea_popescu 5% cheese, 95% plastic << word. [23:20]
mircea_popescu fucking bs. [23:20]
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mircea_popescu as it stands now, all ''german manufacturers' are using 'us tech' and no 'us tech firm' is using a 'german manufacturer' << you ever looked in the parking lot of these "tech giants" ? [23:22]
mircea_popescu not that many consumer choice 1983 lebarons out there. [23:22]
kakobrekla teslas or whatever 20 liter trucks? [23:23]
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kakobrekla any remaining vw will get called off anyway [23:23]
mircea_popescu bout half euro imports. the rest japanese. [23:23]
mircea_popescu you can't drive a truck and be in tech, it's like being an efette wwf fan [23:23]
asciilifeform 'tesla' is about as common as ferrari here. [23:23]
mircea_popescu you live with the bureaucrats not the technocrats alf. [23:24]
mircea_popescu anyway. v is for victory : http://41.media.tumblr.com/b8e2ec1effb6fd13da3882c99c832046/tumblr_meugfbluub1riedhko1_1280.jpg [23:25]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LuM7Oh ) [23:25]
kakobrekla so i google 'google parking lot' and get 'Google employee lives in a truck in the parking lot ' as first hit. [23:25]
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mircea_popescu why don't you daimler google parking lot instead! [23:26]
asciilifeform !b 2 [23:27]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2X5CAWK.txt ) [23:27]
asciilifeform l0l! [23:27]
asciilifeform i had these mousetraps. [23:27]
kakobrekla to be clear, by truck i mean the SUVs [23:30]
kakobrekla i thought rednecks drive that [23:30]
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mircea_popescu yeah but redneck country is socal/burbank/bakersfield [23:31]
mircea_popescu whereas foogle/gashbook/bapple/etc are more like sf/bay area/fauntleroyland [23:31]
kakobrekla hm, ok. [23:32]
* asciilifeform turned down a gig there not long ago [23:32]
mircea_popescu bakersfield ? [23:32]
asciilifeform sfbay [23:32]
asciilifeform 'tis cursed by the gods. [23:33]
mircea_popescu not more than shittington [23:33]
asciilifeform more. [23:33]
asciilifeform costs literally 5x per sq. metre vs here. [23:33]
* asciilifeform actually did the homework, even [23:34]
mircea_popescu what is it these days ? [23:34]
asciilifeform and they don't pay 5x. [23:34]
punkman but you could live on parking lot [23:34]
mircea_popescu you could couchsurf! [23:34]
mircea_popescu MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF! [23:34]
asciilifeform asked a phriend, he (with horrified face) said, 'people live differently in those parts. no one has a flat to himself, it's for extroverts, they pack'em 5+ in, they hang out in bars after the bell and only go home to sleep' [23:35]
mircea_popescu heh [23:36]
mircea_popescu extroverts my foot [23:36]
mircea_popescu i do not know one single sf extrovert. [23:36]
phf sf is nicer then dc though, they got a giant park with a view, and food is much better. (actual japanese and mexican foods) [23:36]
mircea_popescu it's all shellshocked/ptss mousy schmucks [23:36]
phf *than [23:36]
asciilifeform this is like asking if a man sitting on a stake is a catamite. [23:36]
asciilifeform from a certain pov - yes. [23:36]
mircea_popescu dude get the fuck out, missouri has a park with a view. [23:36]
mircea_popescu the whole fucking state. [23:36]
phf true, to be fair, anywhere is nicer then dc. i thought ascii was overly dramatic, but damn is this place bad. [23:38]
hanbot sf was great 15 yrs ago ;/ [23:38]
mircea_popescu why, cuz you were 16 ? [23:39]
mircea_popescu in house, bath and beyond news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/0a878994458181568604a97a6bd98726/tumblr_mer4e1Z66U1riedhko1_1280.jpg [23:39]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP8FEu ) [23:39]
asciilifeform 'great' means, without exception, that there is no meat within 40m of my chair that i didn't put there. [23:39]
hanbot well, it had good air. the panhandlers were entertaining. i was 16. [23:40]
mircea_popescu http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2013/11/01/next-steve-jobs-is-12-year-old-mexican-girl-wired-magazine-says/ << reading "the press" sixteen to thrity months later has some remarkable advantages. [23:40]
assbot The Next Steve Jobs Is A 12-Year-Old Mexican Girl, Wired Magazine Says | Fox News Latino ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP8NUw ) [23:41]
mircea_popescu for one thing - they aren't EVER right. [23:41]
mircea_popescu not like, 50-50 duds, like anyone throwing darts. [23:41]
mircea_popescu no, these schmucks manage to always be wrong. [23:41]
mircea_popescu everything in the us was much better in the 90s. buffett-style "i believe in america" merely sounded overoptimistic, hadn't yet caught this greenish hue of past-ridiculous senility like something found in a fridge on the side of a demolishing yard. [23:42]
mircea_popescu they made movies about how hey, "america gotta shape up soon". [23:42]
mircea_popescu yeah. right. [23:42]
asciilifeform hanbot: i bet it's perfectly livable at 500+k/y [23:44]
asciilifeform in sf. [23:44]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good/#selection-5421.0-5421.76 << thorne mocking the shit out of wired/steven hartleck is pretty entertainment [23:44]
asciilifeform or if you're an ant. [23:44]
assbot Fuck you and your stupid epub. Also, David Thorne's 2nd book (it isn't really very good). on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LuN21d ) [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14776 @ 0.00051086 = 7.5485 BTC [-] [23:44]
mircea_popescu if you're going to throw half a million a year on living expenses why the fuck would you not just rent a raj palace in india and install human powered ac. [23:45]
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phf ben_vulpes: just to clarify, literal translation would be that i can talk without censoring myself. but mp explained the actual meaning, that i'm not quite sure how to put in words better. it's something like, can talk on point, without revisions on account of this or that. [23:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: just so [23:45]
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asciilifeform antarctica would also weigh something like 500 but for different reasons [23:47]
asciilifeform point was what it takes to make a particular godforsaken shithole livable. [23:47]
mircea_popescu actually most of siberia/alaska are pretty much rent free and from what i hear rather enjoyable. [23:47]
hanbot asciilifeform by now, i dunno. old friend is about there, relegated to san jose armpit, and last i checked the only thing in his house was a box of cheezeits. [23:47]
mircea_popescu for the man with the skills, of course. [23:47]
asciilifeform if you like your electron microscope made from bear skin and powered by seal fat - then yes! [23:48]
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mircea_popescu my problem is more in line with "nobody's gonna fucking shave her snatch at 30 below", but yeah. [23:50]
mircea_popescu in other news, a "368 page book" reads in a coupla hours, and consists of 90% recycled website material + some letters from weird. [23:52]
mircea_popescu "new york times best seller list" items are radically not worth cutting down the trees. [23:53]
asciilifeform wai wut [23:53]
asciilifeform that turd was 'best seller' ?! [23:53]
punkman the previous book was [23:54]
mircea_popescu the epub thing [23:54]
mircea_popescu and for that matter wgat's his name, the guy with short fingers that quit duke lawschool ? [23:54]
asciilifeform speaking of alaska/siberia/etc, i hear ru now has a 'homestead act' [23:54]
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mircea_popescu then made a horrible movie [23:54]
punkman tucker max [23:54]
mircea_popescu ;;google the guy with short fingers that quit duke lawschool and made a horrible movie [23:54]
gribble Full text of "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" - Internet Archive: ; The Now Infamous Charity Auction Debacle « TuckerMax.com: ; A Man for All Seasons (1966) - Quotes - IMDb: (1 more message) [23:54]
asciilifeform they're handing out 1hectar/man, with the proviso that it cannot be sold [23:54]
BingoBoingo dude get the fuck out, missouri has a park with a view. << Truefax. There's even a tiny tram you can ride to the top of the Arch for more view [23:54]
mircea_popescu check out google on the ball! [23:55]
punkman wow [23:55]
hanbot ahaha [23:55]
mircea_popescu apparently my native oop is intuitively alligned with google sql [23:55]
mircea_popescu BEAT THAT! [23:55]
BingoBoingo ;;google Times Beach [23:56]
gribble Times Beach, Missouri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Ill Fated Times Beach, Missouri - Legends of America: ; S/R 7-8: The Times Beach Story (Marilyn Leistner): [23:56]
BingoBoingo ^ also a park nao [23:56]
asciilifeform https://www.rt.com/politics/224099-russia-land-free-east << it, i think [23:56]
assbot Homestead Act for Russian Far East – Putin supports free land handout — RT Russian politics ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP9MUS ) [23:56]
mircea_popescu aha. [23:56]
mircea_popescu been like that forever. also iirc alaska still has homestead here and there. [23:56]
punkman from the cellar department: Suntory Yamazaki 12yo, seriously smooth https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3a/db/10/3adb107d83b463eb1ac96e792b5eeb77.jpg [23:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP9Rb1 ) [23:57]
asciilifeform folks who enjoy blowing the permafrost with ammonal to dig latrine - know where to do. [23:57]
asciilifeform to go. [23:57]
mircea_popescu o ffs. japanese whiskey ? [23:57]
asciilifeform l0l! [23:57]
mircea_popescu why. [23:58]
asciilifeform what next, french seppuku ? [23:58]
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asciilifeform german bukkake ? [23:58]
mircea_popescu i guess we should be thankful grain at least grew in that shitty island. [23:58]
punkman because jp otaku [23:58]
mircea_popescu otherwise it'd be "WOOD ALCOHOL!!!11" all over. [23:58]
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