Forum logs for 22 Nov 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

asciilifeform	'I am curious as to how many jurors they went through before they found a non Costco member.....or if they did.' << from commentz	[00:02]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:03]
*	linton_s_dawson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[00:13]
phf	funkenstein_: alan kay's objects communicate with each other by sending messages. this is the approach taken explicitly in smalltalk, flavors (one of the lisp machine lisps), objective-c. the idea was inspired by john mccarthy's earlier concept of agents, intelligent systems that engage into q/a sessions with a user. a concurrent take on the same idea is called actors model and is implemented in erlang (and a bunch of other languages,	[00:16]
phf	but that's the well known one).	[00:16]
phf		[00:16]
phf	i was saying that agents/actor is the only valuable dydactic take on object orientation in real world, it both properly traces oop history and also has meaningful parallels in biology and physics.	[00:17]
phf	a lot of "expected" oop behaviors like objects owning methods, synchronous bidirectional messaging that is equivalent to a procedure call, extreme early binding, etc. are artifacts of implementation and optimization strategies, as such they don't have meaning, don't have "real world" correspondence and just are. building taxonomies on such a shaky theoretical foundation results in a very messy thinking	[00:18]
asciilifeform	phf: the last 20+ yrs of nonlisp resulted in the typical sane and technically-literate fella having an extreme allergy to just about any mention of oop	[00:22]
asciilifeform	(see, e.g., mircea_popescu's reaction when the subject was brought up)	[00:22]
asciilifeform	because - like it or not - when you walk into the book shop, or even the university library, today, and look for oop - you don't get a. kay's smalltalk, s. keene's clos, or kiczales's 'metaobject protocol.' you get: java, 'gang of four', and other swill.	[00:24]
asciilifeform	and we're actually long past the point where a typical instructor (phd) learned on the latter	[00:24]
asciilifeform	and on NONE of the actual classics of the subject	[00:25]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy)	[00:25]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:27]
*	twixisowned (~whatwaht@75-166-9-130.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:40]
*	Kushedout (~Kushedout@137.63.71.51) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00050896 = 10.0265 BTC [-] {2}	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	on top of which, i suspect there's a large chunk of "strange woman" in all this also.	[00:43]
*	BeliSK has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[00:43]
*	disident has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[00:43]
*	Kushed has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[00:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ??	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	(ie, we don't even know the sore spots of say kay objects, mostly because they never got a chance to be found mostly because idiots came and covered everything)	[00:44]
asciilifeform	eh not quite, we have some idea	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	ie, "wouldn't the strange woman in the train made a great wife"	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	"no. she snores."	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	talk to the smalltalk aficionados.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	(there are sore spots, aha. but this one here's a woman and the other one is a sack of potatoes with fuckhole drilled in)	[00:45]
*	dooglus_ (~biufter@ec2-54-247-189-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:45]
*	dooglus_ has quit (Changing host)	[00:45]
*	dooglus_ (~biufter@unaffiliated/dooglus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:45]
*	wao_ (~wao@v6.syx.sk) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	well sure/	[00:45]
*	dub (~dub@unaffiliated/dub) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:46]
*	phf` (~phf@unaffiliated/phf) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:46]
*	Jrum_ (~Jrum@2604:a880:800:10::1a4:a001) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:48]
adlai	new TLD for the W, DC: .orc	[00:48]
*	phf has quit (Killed (weber.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))	[00:48]
*	phf` is now known as phf	[00:48]
*	sylvain (~sylvain@unaffiliated/disident) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:48]
*	sylvain is now known as Guest33948	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	!up dub	[00:48]
-assbot-	You voiced dub for 30 minutes.	[00:49]
*	assbot gives voice to dub	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	;;seen dub	[00:49]
gribble	dub was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 30 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 23 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: hey now! meatspace can be busy	[00:49]
*	wao has quit (.net .split)	[00:49]
*	kanzure has quit (.net .split)	[00:49]
*	Apocalyptic has quit (.net .split)	[00:49]
*	trixisowned has quit (.net .split)	[00:49]
*	_flow_ has quit (.net .split)	[00:49]
*	Jrum has quit (.net .split)	[00:49]
*	kanzure_ (~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:49]
*	Apocalyptic (~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:49]
*	Starsoccer has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	joesmoe has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	tsoulus- has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	Guest59877 has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	dooglus has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	t has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	shinohai has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	punkman has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	JPT has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	GNULinuxGuy has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	samO__ has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	villan has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	Duffer1 has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	sinetek has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	Soligor has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	nanotube has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	Anduck has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	deedbot- has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	donpillou has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	EPiSKiNG- has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	knotwork_ has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	trinque has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	deizel has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	Guest24877 has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	crescendo has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	BigBitz has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	Hasimir has quit (.net .split)	[00:50]
*	tsoulus (tsoulus@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-aozqmshorbcexdyn) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:53]
*	joesmoe (~joesmoe@76.73.18.156) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:53]
*	twixisowned is now known as trixisowned	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	https://www.freelancer.com/work/polimedia-us-spam/1/	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	https://www.freelancer.com.au/job-search/polimedia-us-spam/	[00:55]
*	Peter_Geschel has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile this unintentionally humorous "company" continues unabated.	[00:56]
*	assbot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	i wanted to make a freelancer.com killed three fucking years ago. they only got MORe ridiculous in the interval.	[00:56]
*	gares__ (~gares@unaffiliated/gares) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:56]
*	thestringpuller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:56]
*	sueastside has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:56]
*	eric has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:56]
*	m4rCsi_ (~shoar@helo.marcsi.ch) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:56]
asciilifeform	is that thing even plugged in	[00:56]
asciilifeform	to anything.	[00:57]
*	gares has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:57]
*	TomServo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:57]
*	m4rCsi has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:57]
*	_flow_ (flow@2a03:4000:2:2de::1) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:58]
*	thestringpuller (~stevie@ec2-52-3-128-9.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	exacrtly like all the iac "properties" are	[00:58]
*	sueastside (~sueastsid@ip-81-11-207-166.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	plugged in the bahamas "helping the economy" printing press process on one end,	[00:59]
*	thestringpuller is now known as Guest56119	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	flailing wildly in the wind otherwise.	[00:59]
asciilifeform	what would happen if mr bahama dispensed with the requirement for these folks of pretending-to-work ?	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	nothing.	[00:59]
*	BeliSK_ (~beli@us01.coders.sk) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	shinohai (shinohai@ny1.hashbang.sh) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	JPT (~jpt@mail.jpt.lu) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	GNULinuxGuy (~lg@unaffiliated/gnulinuxguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	samO__ (~samO@unaffiliated/samo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	villan (~speed@b08s30ur.corenetworks.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	verne.freenode.net gives voice to shinohai punkman	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/iaci << look at that fcucking shit.	[01:00]
*	Hasimir (~hfenring@seditious.adversary.org) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	this entire thing is worth less than icbit.se	[01:00]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	sinetek (~quassel@114.134.189.103) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	Soligor (~Soligor@unaffiliated/soligor) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	nanotube (~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	Anduck (~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	deedbot- (~deedbot-@ec2-54-68-114-104.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	donpillou (~donpillou@usve8041.vserver.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	EPiSKiNG- (~EPiSKiNG-@unaffiliated/episking) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	knotwork_ (~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	deizel (~deizel@162.243.185.147) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	Guest24877 (taub@95-170-95-129.colo.transip.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	crescendo (~mozart@unaffiliated/crescendo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	BigBitz (~bigbitz@unaffiliated/bigbitz) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:00]
*	verne.freenode.net gives voice to deedbot- trinque	[01:00]
asciilifeform	presumably less of the spew ?	[01:00]
asciilifeform	'The Princeton Review' << l0l!!! world's spammiest exam prep outfit	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	all of it is pure spam.	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	"oh i know, let's create 10k "female" accounts a day, message some derps twice and "delete". fuck will they know"	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	and indeed, as experience shows, they don't.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	i would so love it if the world was backed on firm currency, i'd so fucking murder all these shits. o brother.	[01:02]
asciilifeform	has to work with a butugychag (or other biodiesel facility) to house the present-day occupants of spamco	[01:03]
*	Peter_Geschel (~Peter_Ges@94.102.50.47) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:04]
*	Hasimir is now known as Guest33149	[01:05]
*	eric (~ericp4@unaffiliated/ericp4) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:06]
*	assbot (~assbot@unaffiliated/kakobrekla/bot/assbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:12]
*	ChanServ gives voice to assbot	[01:12]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to assbot	[01:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8878 @ 0.00050949 = 4.5233 BTC [+]	[01:13]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:16]
*	assbot gives voice to phf	[01:18]
*	assbot removes voice from dub	[01:19]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Client Quit)	[01:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26469 @ 0.00051121 = 13.5312 BTC [+] {4}	[01:28]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00051307 = 7.6447 BTC [+] {3}	[01:33]
phf	asciilifeform: rightly so, conversation around oop is long rotten, they are working over fp now :) above wall of text is more of an archaeological find	[01:43]
phf	but nice thing about log, can talk без купюр, get called out. otherwise it's of little relevance what sort of education phds get or what you can buy at a bookstore. we're sort of long on the same page that status quo is subpar	[01:44]
*	sinetek has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[01:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.00051363 = 1.207 BTC [+] {2}	[01:57]
*	sinetek (~quassel@114.134.189.67) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:06]
ben_vulpes	phf: без купюр?	[02:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00051991 = 15.7533 BTC [+] {6}	[02:15]
ben_vulpes	in re fp, dunno that anyone noticed, but i backpedaled from the global state fatwa in my v poc	[02:16]
ben_vulpes	tres annoying to pass the same args around constantly.	[02:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14990 @ 0.00050722 = 7.6032 BTC [-] {5}	[02:25]
phf	ben_vulpes: "without cuts", купюра is from french coupure, and in this case means the parts that are cut out by the censor	[02:30]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[02:32]
*	Cory (~C@unaffiliated/cory) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:34]
phf	it's actually from latin caesura, which is now used as the name of pause in a poem. i thought caesarean section comes from that, but wikipedia article has a very confusing "etymology" section so i don't even know what to believe anymore!	[02:35]
*	trixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[02:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162576 @ 0.00052283 = 84.9996 BTC [+] {7}	[02:46]
ben_vulpes	ah	[02:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00051984 = 13.3599 BTC [-] {4}	[02:55]
*	Duffer1 has quit (Quit: later)	[02:57]
*	SuchWow (~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:03]
*	sinetek has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[03:03]
*	tsoulus has quit (Quit: Adieu.)	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes he means he can talk without bothering with the annoying sorts of context.	[03:20]
ben_vulpes	hm	[03:22]
ben_vulpes	i might begin to be understanding	[03:22]
ben_vulpes	speaking without cuts then means to communicate intelligibly even without the bits that the censors stripped?	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	or without the baby crying.	[03:23]
ben_vulpes	is there some russian joke in there about how the bits that are cut are never the relevant ones?	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	the fundamental point of the written word is that allows a certain sort of abstraction. it's "escapism" in a particular sense.	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	the log system takes this fundamentally further.	[03:23]
*	tsoulus (tsoulus@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nhcsgqjzfuobkwvs) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:24]
ben_vulpes	because a corpus through which one can grep exists, the forum can on an ongoing basis can communicate ever more abstractly?	[03:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21126 @ 0.00051973 = 10.9798 BTC [-] {2}	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	i don't think we mean the same by abstraction. it's not a sort of cool. it's basically purification.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	like in "he was spirited away", "we abstracted him away"	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	phf the problem with the village of ugly women is that well, there's probably something wrong with the water. yes the people now involved may be subpar for whatever reason or explanation to do with them. maybe. or maybe THIS offshot of the hope to ai is just as rotten as the rest of the various attempts to ai that preceded it.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	for reasons to do with that, instead.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	(what apparently nobody wants to mention is that the "good" oop now corrupted by teh evil orcs was really a child of desperation. pretty much born out of the mit through c-section, in the classical sense)	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	(there's a very good reason they keep going on with cow and dog are animal. there was a great paper in the log about "you know what, just change your chosen names to hashes, see if teh system appears to be doing as much "understanding" as it did before.)	[03:33]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i meant abstraction in the sense of software that composes small tools into larger units that...operate at a higher level of abstraction.	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	you have no fucking idea what that word means, do you.	[03:33]
ben_vulpes	apparently not!	[03:33]
ben_vulpes	what does it mean then.	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.	[03:34]
*	ben_vulpes roars	[03:35]
ben_vulpes	SOUNDS A LOT LIKE WRITING SOFTWARE	[03:35]
ben_vulpes	i kid, i kid.	[03:35]
trinque	http://amix.dk/uploads/picasso_bull.jpg	[03:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MK3pJe )	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	romanian joke, for you. man sitting at desk, dog next to him pissing in his shoe.	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	guy comes in, "hey, isn't that dog pissing in your shoe bothering you ?!"	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	"fac abstractie."	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	(i am abstracting)	[03:36]
ben_vulpes	heh	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/186b118d7872656083275f142326edad/tumblr_mgf1plcMTW1rmkahco1_1280.jpg	[03:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MK3XyF )	[03:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28348 @ 0.00051973 = 14.7333 BTC [-] {2}	[03:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1952 @ 0.00052307 = 1.021 BTC [+]	[03:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8536 @ 0.00051758 = 4.4181 BTC [-] {3}	[03:53]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[04:07]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36150 @ 0.00050964 = 18.4235 BTC [-] {3}	[04:13]
punkman	speaking of Alan Kay, I recently stumbled on one of his inane ted-style talks, and his lets-reinvent-computars project http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm	[04:26]
assbot	Viewpoints Research Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkoyPQ )	[04:26]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:29]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[04:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8085 @ 0.00050708 = 4.0997 BTC [-] {2}	[04:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8265 @ 0.0005068 = 4.1887 BTC [-] {2}	[04:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.0005101 = 10.8651 BTC [+] {2}	[04:54]
*	HostFat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[04:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42369 @ 0.00050829 = 21.5357 BTC [-] {5}	[05:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19382 @ 0.0005101 = 9.8868 BTC [+] {2}	[05:03]
deedbot-	[Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Get Shorty. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/11/22/get-shorty/	[05:10]
punkman	saw this in the cinema long time ago. puts it on rewatch list.	[05:20]
punkman	http://bookzz.org/book/1272987/e8c77c	[05:42]
assbot	I'll Go Home Then, It's Warm and Has Chairs: The Unpublished Emails. \| David Thorne \| digital library bookzz ... ( http://bit.ly/21bjUrg )	[05:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56933 @ 0.00052153 = 29.6923 BTC [+] {5}	[05:43]
*	moonpunter (~chatzilla@206.255.57.221) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8544 @ 0.00052405 = 4.4775 BTC [+]	[05:44]
*	ag3nt_zer0 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[05:49]
*	trixisowned (~whatwaht@75-166-9-116.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:55]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[06:01]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[06:04]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:13]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:17]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[06:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47601 @ 0.00050997 = 24.2751 BTC [-] {5}	[06:18]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:24]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[06:28]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:30]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[06:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100500 @ 0.00050679 = 50.9324 BTC [-] {3}	[06:37]
*	CoraCrisT (~cristian@unaffiliated/coracrist) has left #bitcoin-assets	[06:40]
*	CoraCrisT (~cristian@unaffiliated/coracrist) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:40]
*	Uglux (~uglux@unaffiliated/uglux) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:48]
*	Uglux has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[06:59]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:01]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[07:05]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16834 @ 0.00051283 = 8.633 BTC [+] {2}	[07:09]
punkman	http://boingboing.net/2015/11/21/southwest-airlines-surrenders.html	[07:18]
assbot	Southwest Airlines surrenders to racists, refuses boarding to Arab-American passengers / Boing Boing ... ( http://bit.ly/1N1pDFL )	[07:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00050679 = 12.5177 BTC [-] {2}	[07:20]
*	moonpunter has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [SeaMonkey 2.39/20151103174305])	[07:27]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[07:35]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:39]
*	Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[07:40]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy)	[07:40]
*	Keefe (~Keefe@unaffiliated/keefe) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:41]
*	GoonClooney (uid44280@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-auimgcsgdxybgqmp) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8140 @ 0.00051225 = 4.1697 BTC [+] {2}	[07:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 311 @ 0.00328387 = 1.0213 BTC [-] {3}	[08:07]
*	17SAD4F37 (~whatwaht@75-166-9-116.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:22]
*	t (tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:22]
*	starsoccer (~starsocce@ns372404.ip-94-23-252.eu) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:22]
*	starsoccer is now known as Guest96525	[08:23]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:31]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[08:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40312 @ 0.00051245 = 20.6579 BTC [+] {3}	[08:38]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[08:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12992 @ 0.00051372 = 6.6743 BTC [+]	[08:44]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:50]
*	BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:51]
*	assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo	[08:53]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[08:54]
*	sinetek (~quassel@114.134.189.64) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84600 @ 0.00050755 = 42.9387 BTC [-] {4}	[09:09]
*	_flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[09:44]
*	GoonClooney has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[09:45]
*	shinohai has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3)	[09:58]
*	shinohai (shinohai@ny1.hashbang.sh) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19203 @ 0.00051453 = 9.8805 BTC [+]	[10:08]
*	CheckDavid (uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-voujwuntfsjabdus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:10]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:11]
*	_flow_ (flow@star.geekplace.eu) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:12]
*	assbot gives voice to shinohai	[10:20]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:24]
shinohai	!s http://cointelegraph.com/news/115703/delta-id-coin-new-utility-altcoin-developed-for-timestamping-system <<< why???	[10:27]
assbot	Just a moment... ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvMkVt )	[10:27]
assbot	0 results for 'http://cointelegraph.com/news/115703/delta-id-coin-new-utility-altcoin-developed-for-timestamping-system <<< why???' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fcointelegraph.com%2Fnews%2F115703%2Fdelta-id-coin-new-utility-altcoin-developed-for-timestamping-system+++%3C%3C%3C+why%3F%3F%3F	[10:27]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[10:29]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:34]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[10:38]
*	wyrdmantis (5708a724@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.8.167.36) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:39]
*	assbot gives voice to wyrdmantis	[10:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15494 @ 0.00051493 = 7.9783 BTC [+] {3}	[10:44]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[10:47]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	punkman guy is like 75 or some shit.	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king.	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	o yeah get shorty is good. sort of like early pulp fiction / snatch	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	meh, epub. i'll wait for the text version.	[10:55]
punkman	epub is text	[10:55]
punkman	this one at least	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	shinohai because there are way more people than jobs.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	punkman i just went in a cycle asking "then why the fuck are they not calling it .txt" and answering myself the line above to shinohai and now i feel a little queasy.	[10:56]
punkman	lol	[10:56]
*	Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00052382 = 4.9501 BTC [+] {2}	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	PK^C^D ^@^@^@^@^@	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	lies.	[11:00]
punkman	you can unzip the epub, you'll get html	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	a ty.	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	"this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent"	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	what the motherfucking shit is wrong with these people.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	"oh look, i wrote some words down, now you gotta do what i say!!1"	[11:05]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	said every obnoxious 9 yo girl having experienced insufficient ponytail pulling.	[11:05]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:06]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell mitch_callahan your connection is doing that thing again	[11:06]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[11:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00050963 = 18.3976 BTC [-] {4}	[11:08]
mircea_popescu		[11:08]
mircea_popescu	PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=utf-8" />	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css" />	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	name="generator" content="Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0"	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	href="styles.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" />	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	id="navPoint_1">Foreword	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">Hello. Thank you for buying this	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	book. Or at least the	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	e-book. I laid this out	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	myself and I have never done an e-book layout before so	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">I	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">apologise	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> in advance	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">if	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">it isn’t very good. I probably	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	should have put in more effort but you know how it is. With round the	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	clock episodes of Property Virgins on HGTV and sleeping to do, there never	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	seems	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> enough hours in the day.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	Also, r	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">ather than go to any real effort, I	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	thought it would be easier to simply collect all the material I have	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	written that didn’t make it into the first book, either due to timing,	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	space, legal issues, or not being very good, and put them in this one.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	sans-serif"> [11:08]
mircea_popescu	sans-serif">Hosting fees are e	[11:08]
*	williamdunne (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/williamdunne) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	would you look at this stupid shit!	[11:08]
*	williamdunne has quit (Client Quit)	[11:09]
*	assbot gives voice to mitch_callahan	[11:09]
kakobrekla	srs.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	take some text, put it through "Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0" so you can have for every other word like in the old days of microsoft computing, and then zip the shit and call it "epub".	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	fucking hell already. go make altcoins, people.	[11:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00052382 = 16.5003 BTC [+] {2}	[11:10]
mitch_callahan	ahh sorry BingoBoingo, its this stupid Mac client I'm using. i'll remove it today.	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	"hosting fees are expensive" my foot. they're only expensive because "oh i just wanna be a designer" all over the place.	[11:11]
punkman	https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/502526058.jpg saw Uncle Vanya yesterday. here's the set chekov-gun'd until the fucking picture frames are empty.	[11:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1T82IOj )	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	vaguely related http://45.media.tumblr.com/8c442cfeab1c18787e269f2899b09a41/tumblr_mfk5a3wM1t1rv5wh5o1_500.gif	[11:20]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1kOAQn5 )	[11:20]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)	[11:21]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:22]
*	assbot gives voice to mitch_callahan	[11:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23411 @ 0.00052382 = 12.2632 BTC [+] {2}	[11:27]
*	17SAD4F37 has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[11:28]
*	wyrdmantis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[11:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46515 @ 0.00052382 = 24.3655 BTC [+] {3}	[11:37]
*	imposter (uid57046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ervwxcqgawceudqq) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:39]
*	soiled (soiled@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-pseawtobojxbjqwo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:43]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:43]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[12:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052383 = 2.4096 BTC [+] {2}	[12:11]
*	mitch_callahan has quit (Quit: mitch_callahan)	[12:17]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:44]
*	soiled has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[12:44]
*	tripleslash_p (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:47]
*	Xuthus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[12:47]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[12:49]
*	tripleslash_p has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[12:51]
*	Guest96525 has quit (Changing host)	[12:53]
*	Guest96525 (~starsocce@unaffiliated/starsoccer) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:53]
*	Guest96525 is now known as starsoccer	[12:53]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:57]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[13:01]
deedbot-	[Trilema] Fuck you and your stupid epub. Also, David Thorne's 2nd book (it isn't really very good). - http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good/	[13:02]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329599 >> 'the map is not the territory but the territory didn't fit in my glove compartment'	[13:02]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.	[13:02]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329616 >> snore, this is what happens if you live too long - old, 'respectable', impotent	[13:03]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 07:22:09; punkman: speaking of Alan Kay, I recently stumbled on one of his inane ted-style talks, and his lets-reinvent-computars project http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm	[13:03]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329646 >> perhaps somebody will have the basic decency to feed me a bullet prior	[13:03]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 13:46:27; mircea_popescu: fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king.	[13:03]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329651 >> but there are ~precisely~ as many people as there are picks at butugychag	[13:04]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 13:51:32; mircea_popescu: shinohai because there are way more people than jobs.	[13:04]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329659 >> see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=918	[13:04]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 13:59:58; mircea_popescu: "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent"	[13:04]
assbot	Loper OS » To Lend is the Right of an Owner – That is, Not You. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TY5dDA )	[13:04]
asciilifeform	'To those who would retain their right to personal property: your only true allies are the pirates. Not “lending libraries”, not “reasonably priced” and “humane” iTunes-like services. The pirates are the only people presently defending the no-compromise, My-Computer-is-Mine point of view.' -- yours truly	[13:05]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329662 << gianni rodari had a rhyme about 'the girl that wanted a song just for her and nobody else'	[13:06]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 14:01:19; mircea_popescu: said every obnoxious 9 yo girl having experienced insufficient ponytail pulling.	[13:06]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329655 << the 'PK' didn't give it away ??	[13:09]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 13:55:36; mircea_popescu: PK^C^D ^@^@^@^@^@	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform only after he said.	[13:10]
asciilifeform	y'know, 0x50 0x4B 0x03 0x04.	[13:11]
*	asciilifeform nostalgic	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	that part of my brain has been overwritten by tits.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform speaking of defending, see the latest trilema.	[13:12]
*	kanzure_ is now known as kanzure	[13:13]
*	asciilifeform reading it presently	[13:13]
*	asciilifeform briefly took a break from debugging a motherfucking debugger	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	lol	[13:14]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: didja actually swallow that whole thing ?	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	what ?	[13:16]
asciilifeform	the thorne turd	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	well yes.	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	it's just 400kb or so.	[13:16]
asciilifeform	it isn't the weight	[13:16]
asciilifeform	but the... contents	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	which i suppose counts for "368" pages in lalaland wherew they do 1k characters per page.	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	what about them ?	[13:17]
*	mircea_popescu shudders at the thought he actually had to "turn a page" every 1k bytes.	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	god damned it i'd rather be a z80/	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	books are for german kids, really, the sort that grew up waddled at the ankles.	[13:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ergo the popularity of mechanized b00kz	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck is wrong wiht plain text omfg.	[13:18]
asciilifeform	aside from maths - nothing	[13:19]
asciilifeform	for the most part that is what i keep around on dead tree	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	a) none of these derps know any maths and b) i do and somehow survive. if you need a particular notation to do maths either you're not very good or are trying to talk to idiots.	[13:19]
*	asciilifeform would like to read mircea_popescu's notation-less mathematical work. i bet it is rather like euclid on lsd	[13:20]
kakobrekla	like feynman and his diagrams. total idiot.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	and fuck leibniz aha	[13:20]
*	mircea_popescu retreats growling audibly.	[13:21]
jurov	i'd like to see natural language applied to programming, too	[13:23]
asciilifeform	jurov: ever use 'hypertalk' ?	[13:23]
asciilifeform	jurov: you can see a little bit in one of my old articles, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568	[13:23]
assbot	Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1U578pU )	[13:23]
asciilifeform	(imho the idea of 'natural language program' is fundamentally, deeply braindamaged like few other ideas)	[13:24]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	"natural languages" != "alphabetic notation".	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere.	[13:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36155 @ 0.00052348 = 18.9264 BTC [-] {3}	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	there is a fucking reason white people are better than all the other people, and it has jack shit to do with the skin.	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	a lot more to do with the brilliant idea of "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother."	[13:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67045 @ 0.00052406 = 35.1356 BTC [+] {3}	[13:29]
jurov	adding a meaning for a word that already has zillion of other meanings, instead of using dedicated symbol is NOT reducing complexity	[13:31]
mircea_popescu	and you know this how ?	[13:31]
jurov	from experience	[13:31]
jurov	and you?	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	but does your experience also include what i actually said above, or just what you saw in it ?	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	i said "clamp down in one place" not "reduce". how the fuck are you goingto reduce complexity and why aren't you moving on to entropy next!	[13:32]
jurov	you explicitly named the place as "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother."	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	think of it as a boat.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	the boat does not make the ocean level any lower.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	except it allows you to stay dry.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	(it actually makes the level raise slightly, but that is part of the "hope and pray" definition of abstraction yesterday - we hope and pray it dun matter.)	[13:34]
jurov	that's finest advocacy of humanist pseudosciences i ever saw	[13:35]
jurov	they try to take existing language and leverage it, too	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	👍	[13:37]
gribble	Error: "#128077;" is not a valid command.	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	11110000:10011111:10010001:10001101	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	you know what i mean...	[13:37]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	anyway, again not sure why this isn't obvious, but the alphabet is (still is, in spite of all the "help" geeks gave it) a defined, closed, easily countable set.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	"natural language" isn't even defined.	[13:43]
*	Guest56119 is now known as thestringpuller	[13:45]
*	thestringpuller has quit (Changing host)	[13:45]
*	thestringpuller (~stevie@unaffiliated/thestringpuller) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:45]
*	assbot gives voice to thestringpuller	[13:47]
*	imposter has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[13:48]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329763 << with regards to mathematics, it was ~specifically~ about tying folks' dirty, sticky, shit-covered 'intuitive language brain' monkey hands and forcing formal reasoning	[13:52]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 16:23:54; mircea_popescu: i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	which is why this "no but math notation" argument is so bifurcacious.	[13:53]
asciilifeform	take, for instance, http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/hypercard-calc/hc23.jpg << this. it took me perhaps 20 whole minutes to crap out. know why ?	[13:53]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCyVCf )	[13:53]
asciilifeform	the reason was that using english as it permits itself to be used, specifically fails, in ways which the hypertalk docs did not take any pains to describe	[13:53]
asciilifeform	(in short, the disambiguation has to be done like-so; and you can use pronouns, but only like-so)	[13:54]
asciilifeform	overall much more pain, imho, than any ordinary programming language.	[13:54]
*	soiled (soiled@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ubnfjyyohhmferyz) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:55]
trinque	interesting. there you see that abstraction increases complexity clearly, by way of an exaggerated case	[13:55]
asciilifeform	idiot abstraction balloons up complexity like nothing else	[13:56]
trinque	SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers"	[13:56]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/romankbd.png	[13:56]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCzeNs )	[13:56]
trinque	they at (the very) least made something of a double-back somewhere along the language's history	[13:56]
thestringpuller	trinque: that's an apt observation of SQL.	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform same problem is why everyone hates what originally seemed obvious and intuitive : the text powered adventure	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	motherfucker i hated larry's comprehension.	[13:57]
asciilifeform	trying to make a programming language for ~the wrong side of the camel hump~ is like trying to build a car for folks missing both arms and legs	[13:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: precisely that	[13:57]
thestringpuller	what's with all the danny devito reviews on da blogs?	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	no. bad analogy.	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	it's like trying to make trains for cixi	[13:57]
asciilifeform	^	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	as far as her dumb ass is concerned, the best possible train is a ghetto blaster with the volume welded to low, playing christmas carrols from under the mirrors-ensconced speakers.	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	in other news, "you should perhaps point out to your mother that being ugly is no excuse to rawdog drunks" is my new favourite insult.	[14:05]
*	asciilifeform mumbles something about $chipvendor rawdogging drunks	[14:09]
*	asciilifeform has 'wrath' bit set	[14:09]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:10]
thestringpuller	"the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album	[14:13]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[14:15]
*	tripleslash_w (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:15]
asciilifeform	mips_ejtag_drscan_8_out(ejtag_info, MCHP_DE_ASSERT_RST); << motherfuckers. WE ARE SO SPESHUL, can't use standard mips reset ahahaha.	[14:18]
*	tripleslash_w has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[14:19]
kakobrekla	SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers" < yet is anyone still writing raw queries in this day?	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	pretty much every time i want something from trilema i SELECT by hand	[14:21]
asciilifeform	^	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	i really have no idea why i'd want a language on top of that. what's it going to do ?	[14:22]
*	punkman has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[14:22]
trinque	frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying	[14:23]
fluffypony	kakobrekla: I write raw queries a few times a week	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	the only way it could be useful is if it somehow intuited what the columns are actually named for me so i don't have to always keep checking	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	but that ain't happening	[14:23]
kakobrekla	you dont need 'functionality' to SELECT from wp-posts	[14:24]
asciilifeform	intuited << see one of the better mr mold pieces re: same, http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html	[14:24]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: Wolfram Alpha and hubristic user interfaces ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCBDHG )	[14:24]
asciilifeform	'...control interfaces must not be intelligent. Briefly, intelligent user interfaces should be limited to applications in which the user does not expect to control the behavior of the product. If the product is used as a tool, its interface should be as unintelligent as possible. Stupid is predictable; predictable is learnable; learnable is usable.'	[14:24]
trinque	kakobrekla: it is amusing though, yes, that this that was originally intended to be a user interface got buried as it did	[14:25]
kakobrekla	i find raw queries disgusting	[14:25]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: do you find the tool disgusting, or the work ?	[14:25]
asciilifeform	folks tend to confuse the two	[14:25]
kakobrekla	perhaps both.	[14:26]
fluffypony	SELECT * FROM kakobrekla_brain WHERE is_disgusting=1;	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla i know how to do joins and everything!	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	what functionality are you talking about ?	[14:26]
fluffypony	ORDER BY last_disgusted_date DESC;	[14:26]
fluffypony	:-P	[14:26]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu probably also knows how to change a crankshaft. but does he ~want~ to.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	and honestly i don't mind it so much. about the same as my life generally, really.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	"bring me this" "fetch me a that" "kill that schmuck"	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	if you're going to rule people you gotta be able to somehow explain what you actually want done and raw queries are really not far off.	[14:28]
asciilifeform	ah but machine doesn't typically respond to whipping	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	nor needs it.	[14:28]
asciilifeform	which is why man so often becomes servant of machine, rather than vice versa	[14:28]
asciilifeform	stuck 'wrestling with the pig'	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	i would much rather spend five minutes writing queries than figuring why the fuck copy *. doesn't work and ending up using cat	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	seriously, leaving aside everything else, why the fuck would you make THIRTY EIGHT DIFFERENT FILES ?	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	what is this "chapter" thing and why is it in your epub^H^H^H^H zipfile ?	[14:31]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[14:31]
jurov	i'm okay with sql. but when programatically constructing a query, i prefer sqlalchemy	[14:36]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:41]
kakobrekla	most folks most of the time dont need 'functionality', just like with sugar.	[14:42]
asciilifeform	see also mircea_popescu's 'this is a spiffy rifle, i'll take it fishing and to bed'	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla no but seriously, i'm at least partly here to learn, so what functionality is it ? like a good example.	[14:43]
kakobrekla	this one: frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying	[14:44]
kakobrekla	ask trinq.	[14:44]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[14:45]
*	hazirafel (~hazirafel@31.154.92.138) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:54]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:07]
*	tripleslash_q (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:12]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[15:12]
*	tripleslash_q has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[15:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16361 @ 0.00051362 = 8.4033 BTC [-]	[15:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 30000 @ 0.000209 = 6.27 BTC [-]	[15:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00051366 = 13.9202 BTC [+] {2}	[15:23]
trinque	mircea_popescu │ kakobrekla no but seriously, i'm at least partly here to learn, so what functionality is it ? like a good example. << this I think calls for careful steps and a machete	[15:25]
trinque	the huge problem with relational databases is that they conflated programming and declarative data access to the detriment of both	[15:26]
trinque	one place you'll find c-like expressions and functions; another you find set union and difference operators which work entirely via magic	[15:26]
trinque	this magic is why (as I understand it) asciilifeform abhors the thing; you have in no way been involved with what steps will be taken to compute the result other than describing the result itself, barring again, the places where actual programming crept back in	[15:27]
trinque	the usefulness of this declarative mode is I think as you describe, "get me a that" damn it, because I want one.	[15:29]
trinque	aside this, any work I'm doing in databases has been indefinitely postponed until I understand CLOS far better, and review what was done atop it	[15:29]
kakobrekla	if you think you have done away with magick using raw queries you are mistaken	[15:30]
trinque	nah, I am saying the db is magic to the core.	[15:30]
trinque	horrible chimera	[15:30]
kakobrekla	the layer on top (at least mine) generates queries deterministically and the result is not obstructed	[15:31]
trinque	use objects at that layer?	[15:31]
kakobrekla	optionally	[15:31]
trinque	SQLAlchemy or the like?	[15:31]
kakobrekla	i havent used sqla, i guess its is probably similar though i cant say for sure	[15:32]
*	kakobrekla doesnt use off shelf solution	[15:33]
trinque	cool	[15:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MG] 59700 @ 0.00011016 = 6.5766 BTC [+] {2}	[15:34]
jurov	some people went boldly to solve RDBMS problem... and created MongoDB. cringe	[15:36]
trinque	myeah, that thing is a sin	[15:36]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:36]
asciilifeform	there are 'people' programming computers who wouldn't have been allowed within cannon shot of a tractor in kolhoz, yes	[15:37]
trinque	jurov: I simply wish to sit with my data-set and say "give me the X for which this lambda evaluates true, retrieve its related Y and Z, compute this aggregate over the related Y and Z; do this again with another lambda. Return the paginated list of the intersection of the two result sets"	[15:38]
trinque	I'm sure this could be done rather well atop CLOS with no other monstrosities involved	[15:39]
trinque	and the observation which led to databases in the first place is that questions like the above arise constantly; they are not thought of once and etched into the program in stone	[15:40]
trinque	these document stores are nothing more than "What, you don't already know the key of the value you want?" and subsequently "Well fuck, how do we tack relational ideas back onto this, now that we've abandoned all notion of formal structure?"	[15:41]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[15:41]
asciilifeform	http://siliconexposed.blogspot.com/2014_03_01_archive.html << unrelated but very spiffy	[15:41]
assbot	Silicon Exposed: March 2014 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SSZkpN )	[15:41]
asciilifeform	'Once the via was drilled and it appeared we had made contact with the signal trace, it was time to backfill with platinum. The video below is sped up 10x to avoid boring my readers ;)'	[15:41]
asciilifeform	'Once everything was done and the chamber was vented I removed the carbon coating with oxygen plasma (the cleanroom's standard photoresist removal process), packaged up my sample, went home, and soldered it back to the board for testing. After powering it up... nothing! The device was as dead as a doornail, I couldn't even get a JTAG IDCODE from it. ... ... ruled out beam-induced damage as I had not been hitting any of the I/O	[15:43]
asciilifeform	circuitry with the ion beam ... I realized what was going on almost instantly: the antenna effect. The bond wire and leadframe connected to each pad in the device was acting as an antenna and coupling some of the 13.56 MHz RF energy from the plasma into the input buffers, blowing out the ESD diodes and input transistors, and leaving me with a dead chip.'	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	trinque can i get "this" and "that" comparisons of the actual thing ? "ceci n'est pas une pipe" "this is not a pipe" sort of thing	[15:53]
jurov	trinque i'd rather have lazy evaluator that collects the filters and operations I normally have in the program, and compiles them together into optimized query and executes it only when the result is needed	[15:54]
jurov	but that's hard AI, I'm afrraid	[15:54]
trinque	mircea_popescu: the mismatch I was referring to was the object-relational-mapper; it cannot for example (easily, or usably) create a new object which is the synthesis of n other objects done by inner join	[15:55]
trinque	on the SQL side you're more than welcome to create new sets at will via views	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	aha...	[15:57]
jurov	i don't see why this of all is the problem, objects usually know which table/column is the field wired to	[16:00]
trinque	there are sets which are derived from operations on other sets	[16:01]
trinque	"an active_customer is one with an active_subscription and an enabled flag and..."	[16:02]
jurov	as long as all the values take their primary keys with them, you're fine	[16:02]
trinque	this is not the point	[16:03]
jurov	for me biggest prob was the consistency, in any nontrivial ORM situation you build the objects partially, must take care of constraints... db that defers checking constraints to commit would help, but then how do you report it to user... hairiness	[16:05]
trinque	and actually you're going to end up looking at SQL ASTs to figure out where a column came from	[16:05]
trinque	jurov: that was my point	[16:05]
trinque	that using an ORM you duplicate what the DB can already do	[16:06]
trinque	why not derive your JS form validator or whatever from your db constraint?	[16:06]
trinque	"because SQL" << and now we're back to me writing a CL RDBMS	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	for some reason these all sound to me like "the problems we get for having a bad db design"	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	if one structures his tables sanely then none of these complex requests exiswt	[16:07]
jurov	i see	[16:07]
trinque	that's certainly so, that you either pick a sane table structure, or you write terrible queries	[16:09]
jurov	hahaha and then is not able to detect glaring errors...because "dis doth not exist!!111"	[16:09]
jurov	*mpex is	[16:09]
trinque	and my most complex queries have typically involved converting one schema to another one time, and then throwing away the queries	[16:09]
*	linton_s_dawson (Adium@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-bxcgsiwzbxzprhww) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:12]
jurov	!up linton_s_dawson	[16:15]
*	assbot gives voice to linton_s_dawson	[16:15]
jurov	pls don't thank me	[16:15]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:16]
*	wyrdmantis (5708a5b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.8.165.185) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:16]
*	imposter (uid57046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-izvkjlpcbybmnjsh) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:17]
jurov	!up tripleslash	[16:20]
*	assbot gives voice to tripleslash	[16:20]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[16:20]
jurov	!up imposter	[16:20]
*	assbot gives voice to imposter	[16:20]
imposter	Herro	[16:21]
jurov	hey	[16:25]
*	assbot gives voice to wyrdmantis	[16:26]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:28]
wyrdmantis	mircea_popescu can i have eulora login?	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	wyrdmantis aite 1sec	[16:29]
wyrdmantis	sure	[16:29]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	wyrdmantis http://dpaste.com/1HV52PK	[16:32]
assbot	dpaste: 1HV52PK ... ( http://bit.ly/1N6t8yX )	[16:33]
*	soiled has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[16:36]
*	assbot removes voice from linton_s_dawson	[16:45]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:47]
*	assbot removes voice from imposter	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	"After fifteen years in the design industry and realising the only difference between sitting in front of a computer facilitating client's requests and kneeling on the urine soaked floor of a truck stop bathroom giving five dollar blowjobs to men named Chuck, is the amount of urine on the floor, the Jumping Frog fee has evolved from insurance against post-project client suggestion to client incentive to have somebody e	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	lse do it."	[16:54]
*	hazirafel has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[17:04]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[17:06]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:11]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[17:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17188 @ 0.00051288 = 8.8154 BTC [-] {3}	[17:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00051482 = 19.2543 BTC [+] {3}	[17:21]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:34]
*	tripleslash_v (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:36]
*	mike_c (~mike_c@unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:37]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[17:37]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[17:38]
*	wyrdmantis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[17:39]
*	tripleslash_v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[17:41]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26143 @ 0.00051213 = 13.3886 BTC [-] {2}	[17:47]
phf	;;later tell wyrdmantis PMed, but not sure if you got it before timeouting. http://www.eulorum.org/OS_X works, let me know if you run into any issues	[17:51]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[17:51]
assbot	OS X - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTmdbo )	[17:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35040 @ 0.0005113 = 17.916 BTC [-]	[17:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00051573 = 17.638 BTC [+] {3}	[17:55]
*	HeySteve (~Lizard__W@unaffiliated/heysteve) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:59]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:07]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[18:12]
*	tripleslash_o (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00051572 = 3.249 BTC [-] {2}	[18:14]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy)	[18:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00051576 = 11.6562 BTC [+] {3}	[18:20]
*	tripleslash_o has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[18:21]
*	HostFat (~HostFat@2-235-224-2.ip230.fastwebnet.it) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:28]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:30]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:32]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[18:38]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:44]
BingoBoingo	Look who got automated nao http://buttcoinfoundation.org/rogerverification/	[18:44]
assbot	Roger Verification Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1bbUR )	[18:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68650 @ 0.00051186 = 35.1392 BTC [-] {5}	[18:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00051869 = 8.8437 BTC [+] {3}	[18:45]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42907 @ 0.00052235 = 22.4125 BTC [+] {3}	[18:52]
BingoBoingo	lol, Reddit is nao using traditional spam to fill its content quotas https://archive.is/wQQyC	[18:56]
assbot	New SEO Marketing Company in San Antonio : neckbeardstories ... ( http://bit.ly/1P1ca7A )	[18:56]
*	imposter has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[18:58]
*	soiled (soiled@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-zghchmelasrafsld) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:01]
*	soiled has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	i actually get more "web designer" spam than "seo expert" spam.	[19:20]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[19:25]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:38]
*	HeySteve has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[19:49]
*	sinetek has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:03]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:06]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[20:07]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski, ben_vulpes, et al: motherfucking crapple. ~4 hrs disassembly to swap a measely inverter cable	[20:16]
pete_dushenski	for the unawares, what SHOULD it take ?	[20:17]
asciilifeform	0.	[20:17]
asciilifeform	in civilized iron this is not a wear component !	[20:18]
pete_dushenski	l0l	[20:18]
pete_dushenski	'designed by apple in california, etc.'	[20:18]
asciilifeform	aha	[20:18]
*	punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:18]
asciilifeform	'a1181' if anyone gives half a fuck.	[20:18]
pete_dushenski	for macbook air ?	[20:19]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[20:19]
asciilifeform	nah the other one.	[20:19]
asciilifeform	('air' has no high voltage supply to the panel, as it is from led era)	[20:19]
pete_dushenski	the airbook mac then ?	[20:19]
asciilifeform	the whateverthefuck the a1181 is.	[20:20]
asciilifeform	http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.4-black-13-early-2008-penryn-specs.html << it	[20:20]
assbot	MacBook "Core 2 Duo" 2.4 13" (Black-08) Specs (Early 2008, MB404LL/A, MacBook4,1, A1181, 2242) @ EveryMac.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLwIeg )	[20:20]
pete_dushenski	aha. brother had it.	[20:21]
pete_dushenski	i was 'pro' user, wouldn't touch this.	[20:21]
asciilifeform	i wouldn't either	[20:21]
pete_dushenski	wtf are you doing dinking around with one on the first place ?	[20:21]
asciilifeform	it is for pet	[20:21]
pete_dushenski	must be some kinda pet.	[20:22]
asciilifeform	used for many years, and will use until the chinese stop making parts	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	how does the cable wear anyway ? badly placed fan ?	[20:23]
asciilifeform	fatigue	[20:23]
asciilifeform	(it runs through the hinge)	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	fatigue from what	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	it's not a fuciking bridge oh.	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[20:23]
asciilifeform	open, close, open, close...	[20:23]
asciilifeform	this is the hv cable for the lamps	[20:23]
asciilifeform	everything about the box seemed to be ~designed~ to make repairs as miserable an affair as possible	[20:26]
asciilifeform	i'm kinda surprised they didn't fill the thing with glue and be done with it	[20:26]
jurov	you forgot trotyl	[20:26]
asciilifeform	^ optional extra pheature	[20:26]
asciilifeform	iMine	[20:27]
pete_dushenski	iphn0e comes in gold casing for this precise reason	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	trotyl is more expensive than either the thing or the intended customer.	[20:28]
asciilifeform	^	[20:28]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-11-2015#1327375 << cook reads logs, y'know	[20:29]
assbot	Logged on 19-11-2015 17:59:12; pete_dushenski: even place large quantity of gold in land mines. hell, make the land mines ~entirely~ out of gold. not like the yellow stuff has any better uses.	[20:29]
*	pete_dushenski is non-plussed by sequence of 'actual history'	[20:29]
asciilifeform	wut	[20:29]
pete_dushenski	the mines before phones or phones before mines thing	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	in other stories of fatigue, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md7ystNmei1qziluwo1_1280.jpg	[20:32]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MLyagM )	[20:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu would enjoy 'hall of the singing caryatids' by v. pelevin	[20:32]
asciilifeform	(exists in engl even)	[20:33]
asciilifeform	it is about this picture.	[20:33]
*	mircea_popescu is more into the "Brothel of intellectual lusts" take on female degradation than the flimsy political apropos take.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	it's more of the former than the latter	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	i guess no two people ever can read the same book	[20:36]
asciilifeform	if i ever bother to do a w4r3z scan, they could...	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	i never saw much in it (and in pelevin generally) other than "oh if only the holy tenets of TRUE socialism hadn't been /intinate/ or however you say that in russian	[20:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you gotta be thinking of some other fella	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	isn't this the book with lena the "poor her" whore and that schmuck doing dune "the voice" v2.0 ?	[20:38]
asciilifeform	voice?	[20:38]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329816 << duly noted for second instalment of comic. if. when.	[20:39]
assbot	Logged on 22-11-2015 17:09:00; thestringpuller: "the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	;;google "the voice" in dune	[20:39]
gribble	Voice - Dune Wiki - Frank Herbert, David Lynch, Sandworms - Wikia: ; Bene Gesserit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Dune (2000) - Lady Jessica using the voice against Stilgar - YouTube:	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i get it, an entire generation of disenfranchised young russians figure they're great chaps and the fault must be in the women empowering the old farts.	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile...	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	whatever, i dun feel like getting into it.	[20:44]
pete_dushenski	too much work on the sabbath ?	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	too much rehash. what am i, openssl ?	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	http://theaviationist.com/2015/11/20/iriaf-f-14s-escort-ruaf-tu-95/ << spiffy video inside.	[20:46]
assbot	The Aviationist » Watch this video of Iranian F-14 Tomcats escorting a Russian Tu-95 bomber during air strike in Syria ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLA15f )	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	do those things even do anything ?	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	"oh oh airstrike" "ok and ?" "we took out their outhouse!111"	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you are no matter how hard i try.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	here's a primer on airstrike efficiency : the brits did 7 (SEVEN!) mid-air refuellings for one of their rustbuckets to manage to drop ONE bomb on the one runway in the faulklands, "disabling" it	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	except the argentines fixed it that same day, and used it to land hercules for the entire duration of the conflict.	[20:47]
*	pete_dushenski isn't sure that 'bear' is supposed to do anything.	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	cost about 150mn to tear down (without counting amortisation and hr costs) and about 18k to fix.	[20:48]
pete_dushenski	that's backasswards terrorism	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	well, the ~$65 in box cutters the terrorists spent did bring down a 8-10bn piece of real estate.	[20:49]
pete_dushenski	;;calc 9000000000/65	[20:50]
gribble	138461538.462	[20:50]
pete_dushenski	^healthy roi, that.	[20:50]
pete_dushenski	healthy *multiple	[20:50]
pete_dushenski	vs.	[20:51]
pete_dushenski	;;calc 18000/150000000	[20:52]
gribble	0.00012	[20:52]
pete_dushenski	one of these aggressors has too much money in their pockets, while the other knows full well the value of a dollar.	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	either that or possibly doesn't give a shit about caryatids.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	defo one or the other.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	supposedly (ro) intinate = (en) defiled, but im not too happy to it. tina is a derrogative for earth, soil. it's expected to be barren, powdery (but noit outright sand) and in generaly the equivalent of dirt.	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	intina is a verb, to en-dirt-y.	[20:56]
*	Jezzz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[20:56]
pete_dushenski	https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjx5L_unKXJAhUCLYgKHf0-ClQQjBwIBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fd%2Fd9%2FPorch_of_the_Caryatids_from_angle.JPG&psig=AFQjCNHy0iPIzC_1v0U8RVTk5KbZLGOW2g&ust=1448322636396145 << these caryatids ?	[20:57]
assbot	Redirect Notice ... ( http://bit.ly/1N70qhw )	[20:57]
pete_dushenski	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Porch_of_the_Caryatids_from_angle.JPG <<	[20:57]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1N70tKj )	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	i had a great pic up lemme see if i can ever find anything again in this smoldering pile of everything that's my blog	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	back in a week.	[20:58]
*	asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu read the book in a language he actually speaks	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	i think i read it in french	[21:00]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	meh i can't find the happy dancing mantises. a well.	[21:07]
mircea_popescu	anyway, what was in your copy, asciilifeform ?	[21:07]
asciilifeform	well i have an english transl. lying around	[21:07]
*	Guest71783 (jezzz@93.186.32.132) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:07]
asciilifeform	perhaps will warez it once find my tripod and have a free shiva hand.	[21:07]
mircea_popescu	notrly the point is it ?	[21:08]
pete_dushenski	http://ashleys.co/image/133719961267	[21:08]
assbot	wtf ily : Photo ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLDaC4 )	[21:08]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:08]
asciilifeform	it's a short & very lulzy yarn and none of the psychiatric weird mircea_popescu mentioned was in it...	[21:08]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: wut	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	wait, is it actually a different story ? ie, not with these ?	[21:08]
asciilifeform	well, there was praying mantis involved	[21:09]
punkman	http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/02/1412244775608_wps_21_Dancing_mantises_Two_pray.jpg	[21:10]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MLDoZO )	[21:10]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: the result of training idjits that their words are the most important thing and that yelling 'rape' makes the 'rapist' stop voluntarily if not arrested by the police	[21:10]
*	tripleslash_k (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:10]
pete_dushenski	also, does anyone have a suggestion for viewing/using the tumblr dashboard that doesn't involve this latest invasion of spamz. every second fucking post is some derpy 'trending' meme that completely kills teh mood !	[21:12]
*	asciilifeform doesn't have useful suggestions for viewing arsebook either	[21:12]
asciilifeform	or 'myspace', etc.	[21:12]
asciilifeform	why even.	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	punkman similar but no	[21:12]
pete_dushenski	because pr0nz	[21:13]
asciilifeform	the tards helpfully segregated themselves, why dig'em back up ?	[21:13]
punkman	asciilifeform: there is porn	[21:13]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[21:13]
asciilifeform	'this is a mousetrap.' 'bbbbutt there's cheeze!!11'	[21:13]
punkman	also describes computer	[21:14]
pete_dushenski	mousetrap grew up from nowhere seriously in last month. before that, fine.	[21:14]
*	tripleslash_k has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[21:15]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:21]
punkman	http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/3/12/1363096281744/18c47e23-73f4-4267-a10f-aa64e0dcef20-620x372.jpeg	[21:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1N73ryh )	[21:21]
punkman	for BingoBoingo https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsnrMIRCIAEloK6.jpg	[21:24]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1N73Lx2 )	[21:24]
*	funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:25]
trinque	oh dear.	[21:25]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[21:25]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[21:26]
funkenstein_	lol we can file that cheese girl under "white are better" right?	[21:30]
kakobrekla	that is not eve cheese	[21:31]
kakobrekla	even*	[21:31]
kakobrekla	5% cheese, 95% plastic	[21:31]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:31]
funkenstein_	well kako, at least labelled with only 26 characters like my fantasy of divine imagery	[21:34]
pete_dushenski	tripleslash: fix your connection wouldja	[21:34]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy)	[21:45]
*	stefek99 (uid41457@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znkgxaslswalzscf) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96800 @ 0.00052051 = 50.3854 BTC [-] {4}	[21:56]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[22:02]
punkman	http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20151121_WBC554.png	[22:22]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NKACUP )	[22:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23832 @ 0.00052109 = 12.4186 BTC [+] {2}	[22:28]
pete_dushenski	^that bar graph will be even lulzier in 50 years when those 'tech giants' 'go kodak'	[22:28]
kakobrekla	as it stands now, all ''german manufacturers' are using 'us tech' and no 'us tech firm' is using a 'german manufacturer'	[22:30]
kakobrekla	rounding errors are possible.	[22:31]
pete_dushenski	perhaps microshit notwithstanding, use != depend upon	[22:32]
pete_dushenski	there are ready replacements for apple, google, amazon, and facebook	[22:33]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski found a replacement for apple ?!!	[22:33]
asciilifeform	pray tell ?	[22:33]
asciilifeform	is it a broomstick ?	[22:33]
pete_dushenski	this is from the perspective of 'deutschland manufaktur', recall	[22:34]
*	HostFat has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:34]
pete_dushenski	wtf does volkswagen need crapple for exactly ?	[22:34]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:34]
asciilifeform	if they were to attempt abandoning microshit - would be just as dependent on crapple.	[22:35]
asciilifeform	failing this, poettering.	[22:35]
kakobrekla	desktops for designing (with ps) and selling the outcome with ipads	[22:36]
pete_dushenski	yes, poettering, the 'us tech giant'	[22:36]
asciilifeform	omitting the x86 duopoly ?	[22:36]
asciilifeform	(soon to be intel monopoly)	[22:36]
pete_dushenski	we agree this is unlikely	[22:36]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[22:39]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00051665 = 4.3915 BTC [-] {2}	[22:43]
*	tripleslash_c (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48726 @ 0.00051665 = 25.1743 BTC [-] {2}	[22:45]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[22:46]
*	tripleslash_c has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[22:48]
*	punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has left #bitcoin-assets	[22:52]
*	Guest71783 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[22:53]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:55]
*	punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:59]
*	Jezzz (jezzz@93.186.32.132) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:01]
*	Jezzz is now known as Guest17786	[23:01]
*	pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:02]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[23:07]
*	funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Leaving")	[23:10]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[23:10]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:11]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	5% cheese, 95% plastic << word.	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	fucking bs.	[23:20]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	as it stands now, all ''german manufacturers' are using 'us tech' and no 'us tech firm' is using a 'german manufacturer' << you ever looked in the parking lot of these "tech giants" ?	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	not that many consumer choice 1983 lebarons out there.	[23:22]
kakobrekla	teslas or whatever 20 liter trucks?	[23:23]
*	tripleslash_g (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:23]
kakobrekla	any remaining vw will get called off anyway	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	bout half euro imports. the rest japanese.	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	you can't drive a truck and be in tech, it's like being an efette wwf fan	[23:23]
asciilifeform	'tesla' is about as common as ferrari here.	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	you live with the bureaucrats not the technocrats alf.	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	anyway. v is for victory : http://41.media.tumblr.com/b8e2ec1effb6fd13da3882c99c832046/tumblr_meugfbluub1riedhko1_1280.jpg	[23:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1LuM7Oh )	[23:25]
kakobrekla	so i google 'google parking lot' and get 'Google employee lives in a truck in the parking lot ' as first hit.	[23:25]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	why don't you daimler google parking lot instead!	[23:26]
asciilifeform	!b 2	[23:27]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2X5CAWK.txt )	[23:27]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[23:27]
asciilifeform	i had these mousetraps.	[23:27]
kakobrekla	to be clear, by truck i mean the SUVs	[23:30]
kakobrekla	i thought rednecks drive that	[23:30]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy)	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	yeah but redneck country is socal/burbank/bakersfield	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	whereas foogle/gashbook/bapple/etc are more like sf/bay area/fauntleroyland	[23:31]
kakobrekla	hm, ok.	[23:32]
*	asciilifeform turned down a gig there not long ago	[23:32]
mircea_popescu	bakersfield ?	[23:32]
asciilifeform	sfbay	[23:32]
asciilifeform	'tis cursed by the gods.	[23:33]
mircea_popescu	not more than shittington	[23:33]
asciilifeform	more.	[23:33]
asciilifeform	costs literally 5x per sq. metre vs here.	[23:33]
*	asciilifeform actually did the homework, even	[23:34]
mircea_popescu	what is it these days ?	[23:34]
asciilifeform	and they don't pay 5x.	[23:34]
punkman	but you could live on parking lot	[23:34]
mircea_popescu	you could couchsurf!	[23:34]
mircea_popescu	MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF!	[23:34]
asciilifeform	asked a phriend, he (with horrified face) said, 'people live differently in those parts. no one has a flat to himself, it's for extroverts, they pack'em 5+ in, they hang out in bars after the bell and only go home to sleep'	[23:35]
mircea_popescu	heh	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	extroverts my foot	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	i do not know one single sf extrovert.	[23:36]
phf	sf is nicer then dc though, they got a giant park with a view, and food is much better. (actual japanese and mexican foods)	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	it's all shellshocked/ptss mousy schmucks	[23:36]
phf	*than	[23:36]
asciilifeform	this is like asking if a man sitting on a stake is a catamite.	[23:36]
asciilifeform	from a certain pov - yes.	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	dude get the fuck out, missouri has a park with a view.	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	the whole fucking state.	[23:36]
phf	true, to be fair, anywhere is nicer then dc. i thought ascii was overly dramatic, but damn is this place bad.	[23:38]
hanbot	sf was great 15 yrs ago ;/	[23:38]
mircea_popescu	why, cuz you were 16 ?	[23:39]
mircea_popescu	in house, bath and beyond news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/0a878994458181568604a97a6bd98726/tumblr_mer4e1Z66U1riedhko1_1280.jpg	[23:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1kP8FEu )	[23:39]
asciilifeform	'great' means, without exception, that there is no meat within 40m of my chair that i didn't put there.	[23:39]
hanbot	well, it had good air. the panhandlers were entertaining. i was 16.	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2013/11/01/next-steve-jobs-is-12-year-old-mexican-girl-wired-magazine-says/ << reading "the press" sixteen to thrity months later has some remarkable advantages.	[23:40]
assbot	The Next Steve Jobs Is A 12-Year-Old Mexican Girl, Wired Magazine Says \| Fox News Latino ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP8NUw )	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	for one thing - they aren't EVER right.	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	not like, 50-50 duds, like anyone throwing darts.	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	no, these schmucks manage to always be wrong.	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	everything in the us was much better in the 90s. buffett-style "i believe in america" merely sounded overoptimistic, hadn't yet caught this greenish hue of past-ridiculous senility like something found in a fridge on the side of a demolishing yard.	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	they made movies about how hey, "america gotta shape up soon".	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	yeah. right.	[23:42]
asciilifeform	hanbot: i bet it's perfectly livable at 500+k/y	[23:44]
asciilifeform	in sf.	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good/#selection-5421.0-5421.76 << thorne mocking the shit out of wired/steven hartleck is pretty entertainment	[23:44]
asciilifeform	or if you're an ant.	[23:44]
assbot	Fuck you and your stupid epub. Also, David Thorne's 2nd book (it isn't really very good). on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LuN21d )	[23:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14776 @ 0.00051086 = 7.5485 BTC [-]	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	if you're going to throw half a million a year on living expenses why the fuck would you not just rent a raj palace in india and install human powered ac.	[23:45]
*	tripleslash_g has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:45]
phf	ben_vulpes: just to clarify, literal translation would be that i can talk without censoring myself. but mp explained the actual meaning, that i'm not quite sure how to put in words better. it's something like, can talk on point, without revisions on account of this or that.	[23:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: just so	[23:45]
*	soiled (soiled@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-fkavhcgnyvwnkqau) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:46]
asciilifeform	antarctica would also weigh something like 500 but for different reasons	[23:47]
asciilifeform	point was what it takes to make a particular godforsaken shithole livable.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	actually most of siberia/alaska are pretty much rent free and from what i hear rather enjoyable.	[23:47]
hanbot	asciilifeform by now, i dunno. old friend is about there, relegated to san jose armpit, and last i checked the only thing in his house was a box of cheezeits.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	for the man with the skills, of course.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	if you like your electron microscope made from bear skin and powered by seal fat - then yes!	[23:48]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	my problem is more in line with "nobody's gonna fucking shave her snatch at 30 below", but yeah.	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	in other news, a "368 page book" reads in a coupla hours, and consists of 90% recycled website material + some letters from weird.	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	"new york times best seller list" items are radically not worth cutting down the trees.	[23:53]
asciilifeform	wai wut	[23:53]
asciilifeform	that turd was 'best seller' ?!	[23:53]
punkman	the previous book was	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	the epub thing	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	and for that matter wgat's his name, the guy with short fingers that quit duke lawschool ?	[23:54]
asciilifeform	speaking of alaska/siberia/etc, i hear ru now has a 'homestead act'	[23:54]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	then made a horrible movie	[23:54]
punkman	tucker max	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	;;google the guy with short fingers that quit duke lawschool and made a horrible movie	[23:54]
gribble	Full text of "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" - Internet Archive: ; The Now Infamous Charity Auction Debacle « TuckerMax.com: ; A Man for All Seasons (1966) - Quotes - IMDb: (1 more message)	[23:54]
asciilifeform	they're handing out 1hectar/man, with the proviso that it cannot be sold	[23:54]
BingoBoingo	dude get the fuck out, missouri has a park with a view. << Truefax. There's even a tiny tram you can ride to the top of the Arch for more view	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	check out google on the ball!	[23:55]
punkman	wow	[23:55]
hanbot	ahaha	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	apparently my native oop is intuitively alligned with google sql	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	BEAT THAT!	[23:55]
BingoBoingo	;;google Times Beach	[23:56]
gribble	Times Beach, Missouri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Ill Fated Times Beach, Missouri - Legends of America: ; S/R 7-8: The Times Beach Story (Marilyn Leistner):	[23:56]
BingoBoingo	^ also a park nao	[23:56]
asciilifeform	https://www.rt.com/politics/224099-russia-land-free-east << it, i think	[23:56]
assbot	Homestead Act for Russian Far East – Putin supports free land handout — RT Russian politics ... ( http://bit.ly/1kP9MUS )	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	been like that forever. also iirc alaska still has homestead here and there.	[23:56]
punkman	from the cellar department: Suntory Yamazaki 12yo, seriously smooth https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3a/db/10/3adb107d83b463eb1ac96e792b5eeb77.jpg	[23:57]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1kP9Rb1 )	[23:57]
asciilifeform	folks who enjoy blowing the permafrost with ammonal to dig latrine - know where to do.	[23:57]
asciilifeform	to go.	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	o ffs. japanese whiskey ?	[23:57]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	why.	[23:58]
asciilifeform	what next, french seppuku ?	[23:58]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[23:58]
asciilifeform	german bukkake ?	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	i guess we should be thankful grain at least grew in that shitty island.	[23:58]
punkman	because jp otaku	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	otherwise it'd be "WOOD ALCOHOL!!!11" all over.	[23:58]

« Forum logs for 21 Nov 2015

Forum logs for 23 Nov 2015 »

Category: Logs

Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.

Add your cents! »

If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.

Forum logs for 22 Nov 2015

Recent Comments

Recent Articles

Pages

Say NO! to platforms