Forum logs for 22 Mar 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37150 @ 0.00093441 = 34.7133 BTC [+]	[00:01]
cazalla	mircea_popescu: i could've bought cheaper than $2 but like most idiots, i dismissed it	[00:04]
cazalla	and it wasn't me that recommended black mirror	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	now suffer.	[00:05]
cazalla	looks interesting though	[00:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00093441 = 11.3064 BTC [+]	[00:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07489628 = 0.3745 BTC [+] {2}	[00:08]
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Mats_cd03	has anyone tried keybase.io and have anything to say about it?	[00:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01686047 = 0.3541 BTC [-] {4}	[00:18]
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benkay	aren't they the assholes who want your private key?	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	i recall people briefly considering and dimissing it	[00:19]
benkay	"On the website, all crypto is performed in JavaScript, in your browser. Some people have strong feelings about this, for good reason."	[00:19]
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Mats_cd03	i have been told the implementation is undesirable	[00:20]
Mats_cd03	i appreciate your opinion	[00:20]
benkay	"Keybase.io is also a Keybase client, however certain crypto actions (signing and decrypting) are limited to users who store client-encrypted copies of their private keys on the server, an optional feature we didn't mention above."	[00:21]
benkay	it's a feature!	[00:21]
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the20year1	I coulda bought bitcoins at 10c/ea	[00:22]
the20year1	but decided against it when faucets were free	[00:22]
benkay	Mats_cd03: i don't see the utility of training people out of good crypto habits.	[00:22]
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Mats_cd03	i don't either	[00:23]
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benkay	actually, I do, but it's nefarious.	[00:24]
benkay	and I won't stand for it.	[00:24]
asciilifeform	if livestock could be trained to seppuku, wouldn't need butcher.	[00:25]
kakobrekla	do you think they have that much dignity?	[00:25]
Mats_cd03	life is an indignity	[00:26]
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benkay	and a burden	[00:27]
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benkay	don't tell that to the geneticists from this morning, jurov	[00:34]
benkay	oh it'll turn into a whole purpose of breeding niggers.txt thing	[00:35]
benkay	god no	[00:35]
dexX7	you guys were saying several times that the largest amount of bitcoin stolen from gox was rather in 2011 and 2012. is there any reference? what was mentioned in the drama timeline accounts for about 20k only	[00:38]
dexX7	ah so this is simply an assumption?	[00:41]
benkay	jurov: http://bash.org/?5775	[00:44]
dexX7	well, i thought it was here at least ;)	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	o look it's a jurov	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	how;s the snow ?	[00:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22093 @ 0.00093441 = 20.6439 BTC [+]	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 it's unclear what happened recently with gox.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	the actual quote from drama timeline as to 2011 hack is "Amusingly, reports about the security such as it was having been breached were trickling in for weeks prior. Tis impossible to evaluate the actual loss with this one, but suffice it to observe that BTC was temporarily trading for 1 cent at the time."	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	which just goes to show mtgox is continuing in the same tradition	[00:51]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=517758.0	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	phin is trolling pretty hard :D	[00:53]
dexX7	ic. by the way: http://bitcoin.stamen.com/	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	interesting. these are plots on the leaked data huh ?	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	useful effort, tho obviously one'd have to be cautious allocating too much credibility to the underlying datapoints.	[00:55]
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mircea_popescu	sooo... some noob made a post suggesting btc.sx is/was in cahoots with gox and waning against it. that post is now deleted off forum	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	anyone happened to have retained a copy ?	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	or for that matter, anyone happen to be the noob in question.	[00:57]
dexX7	there is some kind of mirror forum of btctalk which does not delete deleted posts	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	ttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524429.msg5814899#msg5814899	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	found a repost.	[00:58]
dexX7	https://bitcointa.lk/	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	tl;dr : "My guess: they lost money on trades while Gox was Goxing people, and now they're passing this loss on to "suspicious" accounts."	[00:59]
BCB	dexX7: what is that	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	BCB a mirror so as to prevent deletion of interesting material.	[00:59]
BCB	interesting.	[01:00]
dexX7	tbh i don't know exactly what it is. i guess the attempt to create bitcointalk 2.0	[01:00]
BCB	The FEDs already have a mirror	[01:00]
BCB	dexX7: GOAT is trying to do that	[01:00]
dexX7	a lot of people tried, i heard	[01:00]
BCB	mircea_popescu: you should conduct your own investigation into Satoshi Dice	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	so far relatively little grounds to.	[01:01]
jurov	lol i almost forgotten the snow by now	[01:01]
BCB	mircea_popescu: uncover the identy of the "mysterious buyer"	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	that's a fiat world thing to do neh ?	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	"Seems like this is the equivalent of a LE officer asking to search your car or house looking for evidence."	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	teh peanut gallery will turn evertything into its owne experiences.	[01:04]
dexX7	why should one care about the buyer?	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin economy ? like the supermarket! regulatory matters ? like a traffic cop stop!	[01:05]
dexX7	it's only a thing between erik and the buyer	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	everything's like a peanut to these people.	[01:05]
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jurov	mircea_popescu: oh and the trilema comment was meant like TIL what I said.	[01:11]
jurov	or TIL I should not interject with stupid remarks	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	lol ?	[01:11]
jurov	http://trilema.com/2014/this-privacy-thing/#comment-98618	[01:11]
ozbot	This privacy thing… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	yeah, srsly, no jurovs were raped in the makes of these epic lolz.	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	Bijan Sabet @bijan So I have this friend who wants a motorcycle. But my wife, I mean, his wife doesn't think it's a great idea. Any ideas how to win her over?	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	Kevin Thau @kevinthau · 12m @bijan I have the same friend.	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu · 19s @bijan http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2fzdjNaEu1r3w115o1_1280.jpg … (nsfw, meaning not safe for wife).	[01:13]
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jurov	is she sitting on the grill? riding over cobblestones?	[01:15]
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jurov	yea definitely nsfw	[01:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.059 = 0.236 BTC [+]	[01:15]
benkay	mine liked it	[01:16]
benkay	but you know, pet redheads etc.	[01:16]
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dexX7	to what office belongs +0731 076 827?	[01:17]
jurov	dexX7 wrong window	[01:18]
dexX7	nope	[01:18]
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dexX7	was mentioned in the trilema article	[01:19]
dexX7	"Not that I don’t maintain offices or anything, you can call +0731 076 827 and talk to the receptionist any time you feel like."	[01:19]
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mircea_popescu	dexX7 that'd seem to contain your answer ?	[01:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.059 = 0.354 BTC [+] {2}	[01:22]
dexX7	no. >> what office? - it belongs to an office	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	mine dood.	[01:23]
pizzaman1337	I can't imagine MP going to an office	[01:24]
jurov	inb4 TIL.	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	it's really just a converted sauna	[01:24]
pizzaman1337	that makes me feel better	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	i just go there to lay on a couch with all sorts of flatware all over my head	[01:25]
pizzaman1337	pics or it didn't happen	[01:26]
pizzaman1337	:)	[01:26]
benkay	http://www.imamuseum.org/collections/artwork/m%C3%B6bius-ship-tim-hawkinson	[01:26]
benkay	heh im a museum	[01:26]
benkay	great url	[01:26]
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dexX7	well the thing is, there is not even one phone number country code starting with a 7 :p	[01:28]
jurov	mp has own code	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	you add the country code	[01:28]
dexX7	then don't use a +	[01:29]
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jurov	^ true dat	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	http://www.howtocallabroad.com/romania/	[01:30]
ozbot	How to call Romania: country code, area codes, phone books	[01:30]
radan	are you in romania, dr. popescu?	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[01:30]
radan	most financial people I know move to places like london and nyc	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 i guess you'd want to see +40 731 076 827 ?	[01:30]
radan	I guess btc is decentralized enough for that not to be necessary for you	[01:30]
benkay	bitcoin finance happens anywhere but london and nyc, radan	[01:30]
radan	right	[01:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96850 @ 0.00093923 = 90.9644 BTC [+] {5}	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	well there was some in nyc	[01:30]
radan	like moscow	[01:30]
radan	and omsk	[01:30]
radan	and chisinau	[01:31]
jurov	pyongyang	[01:31]
benkay	problem is keeping bitcoins within reach of the United States Government.	[01:31]
dexX7	yes, please. :p	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	aite.	[01:31]
radan	why doesn't north korea start an exchange	[01:31]
benkay	why bother? they just print all the usd they need for their iphones and chandon.	[01:32]
pizzaman1337	they'd need electricity first	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	they have electricity. they make people turn a huge wheel	[01:32]
jurov	radan you can easily wire usd thre?	[01:32]
radan	I don't know	[01:33]
radan	I'm the last person to ask about the north korean economy	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	it's a mess.	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	for one thing, they had a kidnapping white women programme going since the 70s, so you can't conveniently take a harem over unelss you actually shoot the little rat	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	whatever his name is, kim-stuffed-cabbage	[01:37]
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dexX7	some guy on wikipedia uses trilema comments as reference.. hehe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League#cite_note-2	[01:45]
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mircea_popescu	ajaha	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	so wait, wait. i said in a comment on trilema that the hansa exists since 1267 and thus this is the source of wikipedia ?	[01:48]
pizzaman1337	[unreliable source?]	[01:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16597 @ 0.00094018 = 15.6042 BTC [+] {2}	[01:48]
mircea_popescu	flattering.	[01:48]
mircea_popescu	anyway. there's an english royal charter mentioning the name	[01:48]
mircea_popescu	" Sciatis me concessisse civibus meis de	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	Escardeburg omnes libertates et leges et consuetudines suas, et nomina-	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	tim Gildam suam mercatoriam et hansas suas in Anglia et Normannia	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	et lestagia sua per totam costam maris quieta, et quod praedictas leges	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	et consuetudines habeant et teneant cum omnibus libertatibus praedictae	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	Gildae suae et hansis suis pertinentibus. "	[01:50]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[11:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[11:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:56:33 2014	[11:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094491 = 16.158 BTC [+] {2}	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	soo what's new.	[11:32]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` maybe just BE nubbins` without a nubbin ?	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	motherfucker twitter changed profile layout	[11:38]
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cazalla	jurov: are they online anywhere?	[11:49]
cazalla	nice timing mircea_popescu, do you have logs prior to 26-04-2013?	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	logs of what ?	[11:50]
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cazalla	sorry, #bitcoin-assets	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	a	[11:51]
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mircea_popescu	yeah	[11:51]
cazalla	available online for public consumption?	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	well no inasmuch as they	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	're my logs	[11:52]
cazalla	fair enough	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	you'll have to bug kako, and probably volunteer a lot of work	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy	[11:53]
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cazalla	perhaps volunteer work is an opportunity to earn some wot	[12:07]
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dnivi3	Anyone bought Cryptorush shares?	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	dnivi3 nobody sane.	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	cazalla this is a point.	[12:11]
dnivi3	Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen.	[12:11]
mircea_popescu	dividends aren't really the chief consideration in investments.	[12:12]
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dnivi3	Sure, but their business does not seem to thrive anyways so I'd rather pull out. What do you consider the chief consideration?	[12:13]
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VanCleef	i wish there was something decent to invest in	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	Untermyer: Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	Morgan: No, sir. The first thing is character.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	Untermyer: Before money or property?	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it … a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom.	[12:14]
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dnivi3	@micea_popescu: OK, what is that supposed to tell me? @VanCleef: there are some decent funds on Havelock, for example Peta Mine.	[12:16]
VanCleef	isn't petamine just a PMB tho?	[12:16]
VanCleef	therefore bad?	[12:16]
dnivi3	PMB? Not sure what that means, to be honest. Care to explain?	[12:17]
VanCleef	perpetual mining bond	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/	[12:18]
ozbot	The problem with PMBs, ie “Perpetual Mining Bonds” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[12:18]
VanCleef	so like each share locks you into a hashrate not a percentage of the companies total hashing power	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	dnivi3 so give yourself time, lots to learn.	[12:18]
dnivi3	Ah, that's true. Hmm, interesting.	[12:18]
VanCleef	thus being worth less as the network difficulty goes up?	[12:18]
dnivi3	Yes, indeed. However, it is not the case though if the mining operation is intending to reinvest (something which PETA intends to do).	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	how is it not true ?	[12:19]
dnivi3	They have a reinvestment plan for the future, to increase their hashrate. 35% of all profit goes to reinvestment for hash power.	[12:20]
B007	http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-21/sec-bitcoin-shadow-banking-levitt-on-n-dot-y-dot-probe-compliance	[12:20]
ozbot	SEC-Bitcoin, Shadow Banking, Levitt on N.Y. Probe: Compliance - Businessweek	[12:20]
B007	made it into my inbox via google alerts on bitcoin	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	dnivi3 so ?	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	i have a bottle of coca cola. 35% of what i drink goes into buying more coca cola	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	therefore my bottle of coca cola can never be empty.	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	what is this, logic 101 for people that haven't mastered the arrow in flight "paradox" ?	[12:22]
B007	anyway time for bed	[12:23]
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dnivi3	I am not quite sure how the arrow in flight paradox relates to this.	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	the fact that they reinvest some portion of the dividends is completely irrelevant.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	but completely.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	if they paid out that 35% you could reinvest it yourself.	[12:27]
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mircea_popescu	and it'd even be better, because you wouldn't be locked into whatever braindamage they come up with	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense, you're just getting 100% dividend, except a 35% portion of it is actually worth less	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	through being restricted.	[12:28]
dnivi3	Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I gotta go!	[12:35]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ if anyone feels mathematically inclined	[12:37]
ozbot	So here’s a problem for you… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[12:37]
chetty	A workbook handed out to seventh grade students in Springfield, Ill., states that all Americans must register their firearms in order to have a Second Amendment right.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	derp	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	you know what springfield is like ?	[12:39]
VanCleef	In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea.	[12:39]
VanCleef	Putin the next C.E.O of bitcoin	[12:40]
wao-ender	yeah, I read it, would be nice.	[12:41]
HeySteve	Putin tried to get a regional processing centre for credit cards several years back	[12:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0061 = 0.1159 BTC [-] {2}	[12:42]
samson_	WTF has Crimea got to do with the US ?	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi5vBxHCcAIfquU.png	[12:43]
VanCleef	usa just being sooks	[12:43]
VanCleef	lol mircea	[12:44]
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VanCleef	http://imgur.com/t4vFhsc	[12:48]
ozbot	imgur: the simple image sharer	[12:48]
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VanCleef	more i think aboutit my god that whatssapp deal was such a bad buy	[12:58]
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mircea_popescu	at least you're not in facebook's shoes	[13:00]
VanCleef	i would rather buy wechat for alot cheaper	[13:02]
FabianB	i don't think tencent would ever sell	[13:05]
wao-ender	let's use telegram instead of whatsapp	[13:06]
VanCleef	heh iunintalled whatsapp already	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	someone actually had it installed ?!	[13:09]
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*	wao-ender dont	[13:11]
chetty	http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/21/White-House-Leads-Liberal-Media-In-Matt-Drudge-Attack	[13:11]
VanCleef	:P	[13:12]
chetty	no wonder people are so clueless about finance	[13:13]
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MisterE	http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-03-21/russia-%E2%80%9Csanction-spiral%E2%80%9D-elegantly-spirals-out-control	[13:39]
MisterE	So I guess if you'e in a fund that invests in a Russian company you could get screwed f that the Russian holdings are sanctioned...	[13:39]
MisterE	where is the url bot?	[13:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34558 @ 0.00094047 = 32.5008 BTC [-]	[13:40]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 9324 @ 0.00310323 = 28.9345 BTC [-] {24}	[13:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8272 @ 0.00093849 = 7.7632 BTC [-]	[13:46]
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Mats_cd03	Zerohedge is poorly disguised dog shiy	[13:49]
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kakobrekla	i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy < like a year of bullshit isnt enough	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	also a point.	[14:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1230 @ 0.0031 = 3.813 BTC [-]	[14:04]
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mircea_popescu	for bingoboingo and whoever else may care : http://trilema.com/2014/awstats-and-stuff/	[14:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0031 = 0.775 BTC [-]	[14:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 520 @ 0.0031 = 1.612 BTC [-]	[14:09]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00094091 = 17.548 BTC [+] {3}	[14:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094224 = 8.9513 BTC [+]	[14:36]
kakobrekla	http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524429.msg5837265#msg5837265	[14:41]
ozbot	Let's talk about BTC.SX and MT.GOX	[14:41]
kakobrekla	at times like these, ban hurts.	[14:41]
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Namworld	My antivirus considers Google's DoubleClick cookie as an infected files and keeps deleting it.It classify snooping cookies as viruses.	[14:52]
ThickAsThieves	surely you are a man with IPs at your disposal	[14:52]
Namworld	It seems an apt classification.	[14:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093849 = 0.9385 BTC [-]	[14:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093913 = 0.9391 BTC [+]	[14:58]
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kakobrekla	i dont think its even ip restricted	[15:13]
kakobrekla	but i would need to register a sock, thats the issue	[15:13]
kakobrekla	http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526064.0	[15:14]
ozbot	We have decided to donate 100btc to those who lost funds from mt gox	[15:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07100125 = 0.426 BTC [-] {2}	[15:19]
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ThickAsThieves	maybe make a sock that isnt a sock, like call yourself Bitcoin Assets	[15:25]
ThickAsThieves	or hell, kakobrekla2	[15:25]
kakobrekla	mebbe, ill see how bad the itch gets	[15:26]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61999997 BTC [-]	[15:30]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61999998 = 3.72 BTC [+]	[15:31]
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jborkl	That is very generous of them	[15:33]
jborkl	:/	[15:33]
the20year	how thoughtful	[15:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00093913 = 14.8383 BTC [+] {2}	[15:37]
Neil	.d	[15:42]
ozbot	4.250 billion \| Next Diff in 469 blocks \| Estimated Change: 13.4934% in 2d 19h 13m 57s	[15:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093984 = 0.9398 BTC [+]	[15:46]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92517 @ 0.000938 = 86.7809 BTC [-] {6}	[15:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093452 = 2.3363 BTC [-]	[15:56]
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mircea_popescu	In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit".	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	teh us pseudolegal system is such lol by now.	[16:28]
chetty	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586765/Breaking-News-Defiant-Ukranian-commander-orders-outnumbered-men-stand-ground-expect-engage-Russian-troops-surrounding-military-base.html	[16:31]
artifexd	I'm having trouble with http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ If there was any bias in the coin, wouldn't that bias show up as a favoring towards heads in the end results?	[16:34]
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artifexd	And if there was no bias in the coin, a straight forward flip would be good enough.	[16:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094232 = 7.2559 BTC [-]	[16:40]
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mircea_popescu	artifexd http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/#comment-98648	[16:41]
artifexd	ohstopityou.jpg	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	:)	[16:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6191 BTC [-]	[16:43]
artifexd	I recoded my test for that change and the results are an even distribution regardless of flip bias. Cool.	[16:46]
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artifexd	Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out.	[16:47]
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mircea_popescu	artifexd if the bias is 100% you'll discard all sets.	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	in computational terms, the algo doesn't crash, it just never finishes.	[16:50]
artifexd	True. But a generator that never generates can hardly be called a generator.	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	depends if you're discussing it as an engineer or as a computer scientist.	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	neumann was the later, and in that context yes it can.	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	after all, it is generatING.	[16:51]
chetty	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjSS03aCcAANewV.png	[16:51]
artifexd	That strikes me as amusing	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	well it should, because it is :D	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	chetty bwahaha	[16:51]
chetty	they got this wrong, the bitcoin should be the bite	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	or the wall.	[16:52]
artifexd	If anyone wants it, here is the code for the Newman fair-izing test: http://dpaste.com/hold/1752001/	[16:53]
artifexd	Change line 9 to vary the bias to your hearts content.	[16:54]
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mircea_popescu	nice.	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	but it is neumann you know	[16:59]
artifexd	That may explain why google failed me	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	whoa you don't know the greatest mathematician that ever lived ?	[17:00]
mircea_popescu	defo must read up on him.	[17:00]
mircea_popescu	;;google John von Neumann	[17:00]
gribble	John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Von Neumann architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; John von Neumann - CS Dept. NSF-Supported Education ...:	[17:00]
artifexd	I did discover him in my googling. I didn't expect you to misspell his name though so I though you were talking about someone else	[17:02]
artifexd	*thought	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	i misspelled ?!	[17:03]
artifexd	"Ok, so did you come up with Newman’s method or not ?"	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	well HOW EASY do you want me to makle it ;/	[17:03]
artifexd	I only expect you to be you.	[17:04]
mircea_popescu	on my better days.	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	unrelatedtly, this may be lulzy : http://financiallyregulated.com/2013/10/21/man-who-mocked-the-sec-in-his-blog-has-been-indicted/	[17:05]
nubbins`	so pascale's art school was "donated" a bunch of inks from a local screenprint shop	[17:06]
nubbins`	which they in turn donated to us	[17:06]
nubbins`	about a third of them were usable, the rest (10-15 gallons) aren't fit for use	[17:06]
nubbins`	brought em out to the dump today, and they wouldn't take them because it's commercial waste	[17:06]
mircea_popescu	what was the problem with them ?	[17:07]
nubbins`	so now we have 15 gallons of "donated" ink that's gonna cost us $2-300 to dispose of	[17:07]
nubbins`	really old, starting to separate	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	you can probably reemusify them if you have an old washing machine	[17:07]
nubbins`	they're plastisol inks, PVC particles in emulsion	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[17:07]
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nubbins`	so uh	[17:08]
nubbins`	nothing i guess	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	do you have an old washing machine /	[17:08]
nubbins`	either way, old inks break down	[17:08]
nubbins`	and no, we don't	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	wel lthen you're stuck.	[17:08]
nubbins`	you can take a quart of old ink and mix it with a power drill for an hour and it's still shit	[17:08]
nubbins`	stuck indeed	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	not that way, that doesn't work.	[17:08]
nubbins`	that's what we get for taking donations without inspecting em first	[17:08]
nubbins`	lesson learned	[17:09]
mircea_popescu	you put it in the tumbler, stuff the tumbler with rags or packing peanuts or w/e to keep the cans flush to the side, then hook it to dry for a while.	[17:09]
mircea_popescu	it'll sort them out.	[17:09]
nubbins`	you're a complicated man	[17:10]
mircea_popescu	what did i do now	[17:10]
nubbins`	impressed me with your knowledge of random things	[17:10]
nubbins`	:o	[17:10]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:10]
nubbins`	either way, fuck these inks	[17:11]
mircea_popescu	well that also works.	[17:11]
nubbins`	unfortunately i can't even sneak em into the trash	[17:11]
nubbins`	well. not with a clear conscience	[17:11]
mircea_popescu	you can just pour them into the toilet, one ounce a day	[17:11]
mircea_popescu	take you a month or so	[17:11]
nubbins`	noooo	[17:11]
nubbins`	the seabirds	[17:11]
mircea_popescu	so you time it out	[17:11]
mircea_popescu	you know, like spacing it out but over time.	[17:11]
nubbins`	heh	[17:12]
nubbins`	well, i've gotta get to printing	[17:12]
nubbins`	try to turn this shit day around	[17:12]
mircea_popescu	noooo	[17:12]
mircea_popescu	the seabirds!	[17:12]
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nubbins`	fun fact, we dumped raw sewage into the atlantic until 2 years ago	[17:13]
mircea_popescu	http://www.sehn.org/Endocrine_Disruption.html << that's the plasticiser, btw	[17:15]
ozbot	Science & Environmental Health Network - Ecological Medicine: Essays	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	probably some phtalate ester or other	[17:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15246 @ 0.00094232 = 14.3666 BTC [-]	[17:16]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00305112 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {3}	[17:17]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 < check it out, jimothy's being upstaged.	[17:21]
ozbot	Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. All say aye.., say AYE, "AYE!"	[17:21]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.003075 = 0.1015 BTC [+]	[17:28]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0710566 = 1.0658 BTC [+] {4}	[17:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07100124 = 1.42 BTC [-] {2}	[17:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28304 @ 0.00094257 = 26.6785 BTC [+] {2}	[17:47]
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only	they will soon come up with bitcoin: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-authentication-in-the-new-uk-1-coin-work	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	for some values of soon	[17:55]
artifexd	https://leastauthority.com/blog/BLAKE2-harder-better-faster-stronger-than-MD5.html#id1	[17:55]
ozbot	Least Authority	[17:55]
artifexd	relevant quote "the Bitcoin network is performing enough computation to generate SHA-1 collisions every 131 minutes!"	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	luckily the uk pound isn't worth the hassle.	[17:56]
only	45m+ 1 pound coin fakes in circulation	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	that's almost enough to start a fake bitcoin mining farm	[17:58]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.42564200 BTC to 4`100 shares, 59162 satoshi per share	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	http://financiallyregulated.com/2011/11/21/strips-investor-stripped-of-his-investment-dignity/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=3489&relatedposts_position=1	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	this guy should be covering bitcoin corps.	[17:59]
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ThickAsThieves	Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. So let's discuss!	[18:01]
only	lol	[18:01]
mircea_popescu	guy's worried that all his shady work promoting various scams may land him in hot water.	[18:01]
mircea_popescu	which... who knows, always a possibility.	[18:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share	[18:02]
*	mike_c (~mike_c@unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 118000 @ 0.0109775 = 1295.345 BTC [-]	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	$depth x.idiff.jun	[18:03]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: []	[18:03]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: Asks: ['127000 @ 0.0109775']	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	look at that, we're trading.	[18:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 5000 @ 0.0109775 = 54.8875 BTC [-]	[18:04]
ThickAsThieves	wow	[18:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 100132 @ 0.0109775 = 1099.199 BTC [-] {2}	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	hm	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	.d	[18:05]
ozbot	4.250 billion \| Next Diff in 454 blocks \| Estimated Change: 13.2920% in 2d 17h 27m 5s	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 4.25 * 1.15**7	[18:05]
gribble	11.305084492	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 4.25 * 1.125**7	[18:06]
gribble	9.69296371937	[18:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 26868 @ 0.0109775 = 294.9435 BTC [-] {2}	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 4.25 * 1.145**7	[18:06]
gribble	10.9654721643	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	so 14.5% till june	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	$vwap x.idiff.jun	[18:08]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN 1 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 7 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 30 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575	[18:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 25393 @ 0.0109775 = 278.7517 BTC [-]	[18:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00326812 = 0.4902 BTC [+] {6}	[18:09]
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mircea_popescu	suddenly that 16% bet appears a lot more interesting.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 4.25 * 1.18**6	[18:11]
gribble	11.4731051504	[18:11]
asciilifeform	re: hash algos: one could argue that any hash function whose defeat (preimage, etc.) wouldn't sink something major (e.g. btc) isn't worth using.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 4.25 * 1.16**6	[18:11]
gribble	10.354684372	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform these days, yes.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	naturally this only applies to cryptographic hashes, rather than checksums	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	ten-twenty years ago there was nothing really major that depended on them so.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	right. but we're in today.	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	we are.	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	most experts are over 50 and don't hang out in the right places, so	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	one can prolly make a living for years just out of that observation.	[18:13]
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asciilifeform	i still think it possible that there are competent people, but 'dark matter' because why should they talk.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	because it's fun, and human.	[18:14]
asciilifeform	no argument	[18:14]
artifexd	For some people, talking is not fun. Or maybe it is, but writing code is orders of magnitude more fun than writing english.	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	possibly because they never bothered to learn english properly.	[18:17]
artifexd	It isn't about the medium. It's about the audience.	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	i never heard of a programmer that judged the languages on the basis of the machines involved.	[18:18]
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kakobrekla	alert('whats wrong with the audience here?');	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	"javascript is really cool, it works on every shitty laptop out there"	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to "lisp is crap, they only run it on shit"	[18:18]
artifexd	The audience of english is other humans, generally. The audience of code is the machine.	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	the audience is abstracted in either case.	[18:19]
assbot	hey!	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	that's trhe very point of having a language : abstracting the audience.	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	otherwise you'd just carry a soldering iron everywhere.	[18:19]
Ghaleon	solid point	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	and i can't even say it in c++	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	because.... wait for it... c++ IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH :D	[18:21]
Ghaleon	as programmers we must rise up now and be better bridges between humans and machines, money is the lifeblood of human energy, thus we must improve as ambassardors	[18:21]
artifexd	Success in communicating via code is much easier to measure than in english. "Did it compile?" vs "Did he/she understand me?"	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	artifexd if you're limiting yourself to successes you can measure you're more likely to become obese than get laid.	[18:21]
Ghaleon	hence the typical irc, leet jerk attitude is bout to be extinct	[18:21]
asciilifeform	'Did it compile?' << i should hope that you are joking re: this being a standard of success in your work	[18:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.07148303 = 2.1445 BTC [+] {8}	[18:22]
kakobrekla	but 'did it compile' check is equal to 'did i make any typos' not 'is the code fucking shit'	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	poor artifexd ended up in a shitspot	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla stop fuding and slandering bitcointalk CEOs.	[18:22]
asciilifeform	see also herr dijkstra's aphorism re: bugs	[18:23]
kakobrekla	what did i do nao	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	the time to be kakobrekla'd is never! say aye!	[18:23]
artifexd	Standard of success? No. Measurement? Sure. "Yes compile" is further along than "No compile"	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	Ghaleon as you approach mastery you'll notice the leet asshole is an epic bridge builder type.	[18:23]
Ghaleon	mp, yes, the challenge is finding that person who can build the epic bridges and present the right face... without going insane for long enough	[18:24]
Ghaleon	this community is doing an awesomejob	[18:24]
Ghaleon	your letter to sec was an example of that	[18:24]
Ghaleon	respectable, legally sound, defiant.. yet friendly	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	but im the elitist asshole to end all elitist assholes.	[18:25]
Ghaleon	people can look up to that	[18:25]
Ghaleon	join the club brah	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	i suppose "leet jerk" 8======D "elitist asshole"	[18:25]
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mircea_popescu	and by that penis i have represented a proper equality.	[18:26]
Ghaleon	lolz	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 48 @ 0.62805964 = 30.1469 BTC [+] {11}	[18:26]
asciilifeform	\|===D - sapper's shovel?	[18:26]
Ghaleon	we had a great article about bit coin archetypes before	[18:27]
Ghaleon	bit coins greatest value is that it is getting people to ask "what is money really" ?	[18:27]
Ghaleon	henry Ford's vision is coming to pass	[18:27]
Ghaleon	as things move forward we will be able to ask "how do people use money really?"	[18:27]
Ghaleon	and get an answer thanks to the blockchain	[18:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.63 = 10.08 BTC [+]	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-02-2014#514471 in loving reference to that	[18:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00598292 = 0.3829 BTC [-] {5}	[18:29]
Ghaleon	i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	"Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created “a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS.” A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is."	[18:30]
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mircea_popescu	" He also “generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false.” Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer."	[18:31]
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mircea_popescu	Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on “TLG TV,” which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims “posing with stacks of money on his lap.”	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	apparently they didn't have lambos in fiat yet.	[18:31]
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mircea_popescu	(for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's)	[18:32]
asciilifeform	no shortage of trambos though.	[18:32]
asciilifeform	(trabambos?)	[18:32]
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mircea_popescu	tra' bimbos!	[18:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00594301 = 0.1189 BTC [-] {2}	[18:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63011 = 1.2602 BTC [+]	[18:33]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07589959 = 0.3036 BTC [+]	[18:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07589959 = 0.4554 BTC [+] {2}	[18:40]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07589958 = 0.2277 BTC [-]	[18:43]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094254 = 2.8276 BTC [-]	[18:50]
*	peterl (~peterl@108-204-237-26.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00307001 = 0.1535 BTC [-] {4}	[18:54]
benkay	good morning!	[18:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 178 @ 0.00555884 = 0.9895 BTC [+] {2}	[18:57]
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mircea_popescu	http://www.kdnuggets.com/2014/03/how-deep-learning-analytics-mimic-mind.html	[18:59]
ozbot	How Deep Learning Analytics Mimic the Mind	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[18:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.0726 = 2.178 BTC [-] {2}	[19:02]
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mircea_popescu	Arden Elizabeth @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Improvement, Part I: Grit Is More Important Than Talent (link)	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu RT @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Satisfaction, Part I: Girth Is More Important Than ta Length (link)	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	i wonder if she takes it well.	[19:06]
benkay	re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia?	[19:08]
chetty	benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up	[19:13]
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asciilifeform	'for many years, most artificial neural network research was focused on networks with a single layer of processing.' wat. !111?111!	[19:14]
asciilifeform	http://www.csulb.edu/~cwallis/artificialn/History.htm	[19:15]
asciilifeform	minksy & papert showed that single-layer NN cannot even learn 'XOR'. this touched off the first 'ai winter.'	[19:16]
asciilifeform	i thought everyone knew this.	[19:16]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20140318.pdf	[19:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00094278 = 5.421 BTC [+]	[19:16]
ThickAsThieves	http://i.imgur.com/AQTiDmB.jpg	[19:16]
asciilifeform	(it's a freshman homework-level proof incidentally)	[19:18]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl236.aspx	[19:18]
ozbot	Untitled 1	[19:18]
asciilifeform	incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni	[19:19]
asciilifeform	we had a homework of evolving (genetic algo) - rather than, as usually done, 'training' a small NN	[19:19]
asciilifeform	to solve very simple arithmetic problems	[19:19]
asciilifeform	when using '/dev/random' rng (of the time) the bugger took several hours to converge	[19:20]
asciilifeform	but when using a turd downloaded from ? (was it lavarand? or john walker's geiger? wish i remembered) it took minutes.	[19:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32984 @ 0.0009431 = 31.1072 BTC [+] {3}	[19:21]
asciilifeform	if you don't adequately 'massage' the state space, you get miserable evolution.	[19:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 522 @ 0.00307122 = 1.6032 BTC [-] {7}	[19:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00305318 = 3.0532 BTC [-] {9}	[19:25]
bounce	so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG?	[19:25]
asciilifeform	nothing mystical about it. poor rng, for the application described above, is like watered gasoline	[19:26]
asciilifeform	objectively poor performance.	[19:26]
asciilifeform	note that this anecdote had nothing to do with cryptography.	[19:26]
asciilifeform	(the usual place where people concern themselves with rng quality)	[19:26]
asciilifeform	(the other being - gambling)	[19:26]
asciilifeform	a shoddy rng ends up 'dwelling' in some portions of the state space	[19:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0589876 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}	[19:29]
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asciilifeform	re: NNs: their present-day niche obscurity is well-deserved. try using it for any application with regular novel inputs, and notice how it 'forgets.'	[19:31]
decimation	asciilifeform you mentioned in the past that you did not care for mechanical hard drives. Does this mean you put a flash drive in your Libretto?	[19:31]
asciilifeform	(recognition problems with fixed sets, like OCR, work great)	[19:32]
asciilifeform	decimation: as a matter of fact, i did.	[19:32]
decimation	how did you adapt to the ancient ide connectors?	[19:32]
asciilifeform	decimation: you can get PATA SSD drives.	[19:33]
decimation	for a premium, as I recall :)	[19:33]
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decimation	I like your idea of underprovisioning the drive to leave room for bad flash cells	[19:34]
asciilifeform	decimation: i used a 'Transcend' TS64GPSD330. <$100 at the time.	[19:34]
bounce	or a pata<->cf converter	[19:34]
decimation	I guess capacity isn't an issue here really	[19:34]
asciilifeform	no room for converter	[19:34]
decimation	right	[19:35]
asciilifeform	if you have a libretto, the drive has to fit. exactly.	[19:35]
decimation	as is the case with most laptops	[19:35]
asciilifeform	libretto has the least slack space in the bay of any machine of that period that i've owned.	[19:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24271 @ 0.00094235 = 22.8718 BTC [-] {4}	[19:35]
asciilifeform	back in the day, i found that not one of three different pata<->cf cards would fit.	[19:36]
decimation	that's surprising	[19:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]	[19:36]
decimation	I wish there were an ssd available that let you examine its innards	[19:36]
asciilifeform	most of them have cheap through-hole solder jobs and protrude almost 1mm	[19:36]
asciilifeform	decimation: most of them disassemble just fine	[19:37]
decimation	no, I mean the firmware	[19:37]
asciilifeform	ah	[19:37]
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asciilifeform	i dumped 'intel' and 'samsung's ssd fw. ida eats it up like a champ.	[19:37]
decimation	but now that you mention it, they would be a good place to find cheap flash chips	[19:37]
decimation	heh	[19:38]
asciilifeform	a little tricky to make sense of what goes on inside, given undocumented regs a-plenty	[19:38]
decimation	what cpu does it use? 8051?	[19:38]
asciilifeform	one was an 'arm' variant, the other, a big-endian mips with a couple of custom cores, if i recall	[19:38]
BCB	mircea_popescu, did Gilliams list on mpex	[19:38]
asciilifeform	forget which was which	[19:38]
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decimation	bunnie has a whole post on hacking SD cards	[19:39]
decimation	http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554	[19:39]
ozbot	On Hacking MicroSD Cards « bunnie's blog	[19:39]
asciilifeform	there was also a fellow who booted linux kernel on the controllers of dead hdds recently	[19:39]
decimation	lol	[19:39]
asciilifeform	i experimented with this myself a few yrs ago, but life got in the way	[19:39]
decimation	the microcontroller on board is basically free	[19:39]
asciilifeform	('the bad dancer is hindered by his arse.' kudos to the kid)	[19:40]
decimation	I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid	[19:42]
decimation	thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware	[19:42]
asciilifeform	this wouldn't even be such a problem if it actually worked	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	BCB no ?	[19:42]
asciilifeform	but try getting a sharp 100kHz wave, for instance, out of a 'micro' running java	[19:42]
benkay	"Those concerned about e-waste may (or may not) be pleased to know that it’s also common for vendors to use recycled flash chips salvaged from discarded parts."	[19:43]
asciilifeform	(by toggling pins)	[19:43]
asciilifeform	'eat recycled food. it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'	[19:43]
decimation	heh exactly	[19:43]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the guys are retards of prime order, which is why i quoted it.	[19:43]
decimation	Or get weeks of battery life out of a lithium cell	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves is that dope ?	[19:44]
asciilifeform	re: the dope: simply owning the 'pill press' required to stamp the pictured items is quasi-illegal in usa	[19:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]	[19:45]
asciilifeform	unless you're a 'registered' whatever	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed	[19:46]
asciilifeform	(ianal, but if i recall, it's not actually illegal, but was ruled 'probable cause' for police search)	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	this is a well-known fact. the 'ai winters' were merely the flip sides of 'ai summers', bacchanalia of graft of every variety	[19:47]
decimation	of course, NN do work as ascii pointed out	[19:48]
asciilifeform	see, for instance, this:	[19:48]
asciilifeform	http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Thinking-Machines.aspx?pg=3#194568	[19:48]
decimation	just not against problems of the "I don't know what I want" variety	[19:48]
ozbot	Thinking Machines - The Daily WTF	[19:48]
asciilifeform	'Yes, our office was magnificent and yes, a gourmet chef and her entourage came in every day to cook our lunch. The meals were awesome.'	[19:48]
asciilifeform	http://www.inc.com/magazine/19950915/2622_Printer_Friendly.html	[19:49]
ozbot	The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines, Bankruptcy Article \| Inc.com	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform freer people would make home candy in the pattern and distribute it to neighbourhood kids.	[19:49]
asciilifeform	re: thinking machines, see mp's 'tin woman' essay.	[19:49]
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mircea_popescu	decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once.	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	sure they work. not for everything all the time.	[19:50]
asciilifeform	this particular broom actually fires small-caliber quite well. in every OCR app, for example.	[19:50]
bounce	"hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death.	[19:50]
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mircea_popescu	bounce i suspect the statements are homologuous.	[19:50]
bounce	could be	[19:50]
decimation	as for e-waste: http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/devices/us-bill-would-fight-chip-counterfeiting	[19:50]
decimation	" According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy."	[19:51]
decimation	Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers	[19:51]
asciilifeform	decimation: did you see the recent incident with Fluke Corp. ?	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	heh	[19:51]
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decimation	or, to be more precise, hiring and paying competent inspectors is a bridge too far for USG	[19:51]
decimation	no I didn't, what happened?	[19:51]
asciilifeform	https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428	[19:52]
ozbot	Fluke, we love you but you're killing us. - News - SparkFun Electronics	[19:52]
decimation	did you ever wonder how many TSA agents could identify diddled electronics with their xray machines?	[19:52]
asciilifeform	tldr - fluke corp. has a trademark on... yellow voltmeters. chinese shipment of yellow voltmeters held up at customs, burned.	[19:52]
asciilifeform	the next day, they 'apologized' by... supplying a crate of free fluke meters to the victim	[19:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00094421 = 23.5108 BTC [+] {3}	[19:53]
asciilifeform	and saying 'we're not the least bit sorry and shall do it again always'	[19:54]
decimation	so, in the land of the free, the USG has granted a monopoly on yellow DMM's and then began enforcing the monopoly using taxpayer funds.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	gotta support the team.	[19:54]
asciilifeform	there is really no qualitative difference between this and every other 'ip' enforcement action.	[19:54]
decimation	Except, that's exactly what happened with the boston tea party	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fowd29dOyh0	[19:55]
ozbot	Puddy Paints His Face [Seinfeld] - YouTube	[19:55]
asciilifeform	now, for those who do not know, fluke is one of those remaining outfits that... builds things in usa	[19:55]
asciilifeform	traditionally, if you wanted an 'adult' measurement instrument (multimeter, oscilloscope, etc) you got a fluke or hp (now 'agilent')	[19:55]
asciilifeform	or suffered with chinese crap	[19:55]
asciilifeform	but now, the chinese instruments are quite usable	[19:56]
asciilifeform	and you can even get calibration certificates for them, for some extra cost	[19:56]
decimation	yeah I have noticed a trend here with a variety of electronic products	[19:56]
asciilifeform	fluke, naturally, 'will not go quietly into the good night'	[19:56]
decimation	yeah, but making lame patents isn't going to win in the end	[19:57]
asciilifeform	i doubt that anyone at fluke likes to think about 'the end'	[19:57]
asciilifeform	this incident showed all the symptoms of 'bite of the cornered beast.'	[19:57]
mircea_popescu	decimation why not ?	[19:57]
decimation	well, in this specific case, I think it will be impossible to create a ring of patents that will stop the mongol hordes	[19:58]
asciilifeform	note that this wasn't even a patent case	[19:59]
decimation	It's always going to be more expensive to pay lawyers than to develop a patent-evading version of a device	[19:59]
asciilifeform	trademark. on yellow plastic.	[19:59]
decimation	that makes it even more lame	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance ?	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	stuffing hands in ears and yelling works "indefinitely".	[20:00]
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decimation	well, in the specific case of high-end test equipment, most buyers are not going to be easily swayed by bs	[20:00]
decimation	if they can halve their costs, anyway	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	but there's going to be a corner somehwere the retarded kids gather	[20:00]
decimation	indeed	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	and talk among each other about how "putin is living in a different world"	[20:01]
asciilifeform	the other notable thing was that this was an ultra-low-end product	[20:01]
decimation	they are going to get stem degrees	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	if you ask its citizenry, the us south still lives.	[20:01]
decimation	http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/	[20:01]
ozbot	The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage - Michael S. Teitelbaum - The Atlantic	[20:01]
bounce	loved $article about shenzen though. made me wish for actual EE skill.	[20:01]
decimation	Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:01]
decimation	what do you say about a "superpower" that can barely employ 300,000 EE's	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	it can employ an infinity of them	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	but it can't turn 100mn ghetto kids into more than 300k passible ee's	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	and about 50mn paralegals of all types.	[20:02]
asciilifeform	there is a 'gresham's law' / 'lemon car effect' at work with the EEs	[20:02]
decimation	that's true	[20:02]
decimation	asian countries will subsidize them to the hilt	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	afaik actualy us-citizen ee's vs total ee's have a worse salary problem than women/men in non-government, actually productive jobs do.	[20:03]
decimation	the talent moves there	[20:03]
asciilifeform	some months ago, i spoke with an EE prof (consultation) at a major american uni	[20:03]
asciilifeform	his several dozen grad students - not one could write a simple program for an embedded cpu.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	that's not even the worst part.	[20:04]
decimation	that's sad	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	he couldn'rt force them to work webcams naked for a month is the worst part.	[20:04]
asciilifeform	and these people get Ph.D and 'graduate'	[20:04]
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asciilifeform	9 out of 10 india/china	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	;;google mit battery	[20:04]
gribble	Batteries - MIT News Office: ; Liquid Metal Batteries - Group Sadoway: ; Better batteries through biology? - MIT News Office:	[20:04]
asciilifeform	yes, and this.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	obligatory link to that being, of course,	[20:05]
decimation	my experience as us undergrad EE about 10 years ago	[20:05]
asciilifeform	but it had the angle of pillorying american undergrads at posh unis	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhk9eKOLzQ	[20:05]
ozbot	MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube	[20:05]
decimation	1/3 chinese, 1/3 indian, 1/3 white males	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	"we are the premier engineer and science institution in teh werld"	[20:05]
decimation	grad department (and profs) 80% chinese/indian	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	guy looks like a fucking shaving cream model.	[20:05]
asciilifeform	there's two separate diseases at work	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	at least, yeah/	[20:06]
asciilifeform	the american kids can't xxxx because, well, american schooling, 'diversity', etc. the eastern kids, they, in principle, could	[20:06]
asciilifeform	but won't. because 'i can lift it off the net'	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	im not sure that's a bad thing	[20:06]
asciilifeform	it is in practice almost always a bad thing	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	only absent superivision.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	not for 'religious' reasons, but practical ones	[20:07]
decimation	wrt embedded stuff "lifting off the net" never works well	[20:07]
benkay	all americans are lacking supervision, though.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	with the trend for centralization (everybody but a few weirdos runs 'arm' chips, compiles c/cpp) it 'works'	[20:07]
asciilifeform	for a while, at least.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	see, if the context is, "be able to power bulb with battery on request or spend the next month poledancing in mumbai"	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	it no longer matters what the kid is lifting off net.	[20:08]
decimation	well, as long as the asians keep shipping those parts	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	decimation indefinitely extensible. "be able to also design the battery"	[20:09]
decimation	to be an American today is to put your head deep in the lion's mouth, on the understanding that he won't bite	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	wrong lion, wrong mouth tho	[20:09]
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decimation	yeah you make a good point	[20:09]
decimation	at some point the bills will come due. It's hard to see how the US is going to add much value to anything with only 300k EEs	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	you know the refuge of dying empires	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	they're doing a lot of scholastics.	[20:10]
asciilifeform	i'm certainly not the first to describe this, but u.s. education system 'bit-shifted'. i.e. 'college is the new high school', and thereby it follows that 'phd is the new college'	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	"we are adding the TRUE value to everything through teh social media"	[20:10]
asciilifeform	so in that light, phd students who crib buggy code from stackoverflow and pass it off as a thesis are unsurprising.	[20:10]
benkay	i wish i'd had an education in the classic sense.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform vaugely reminiscent of all the chinese administrative reorganisations	[20:11]
benkay	old books, hard problems, canings, etc.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	basically the chinese ran all the middle ages on a sort of govt-sponsored us university program	[20:11]
bounce	nothing for it but give yourself one, even if N years late.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	i'm with the b's. both of em.	[20:12]
asciilifeform	more or less this.	[20:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07270143 = 1.0905 BTC [+] {3}	[20:12]
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asciilifeform	if you never learned the skill of inflicting pain on yourself, it might be hard to start though	[20:12]
asciilifeform	perhaps there was a reason for the yoga bed of nails.	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	get a mistress.	[20:13]
decimation	even "biotech" is just a bunch of bs	[20:13]
decimation	from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. "	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	i dun believe much in this masturbatory pain thing	[20:13]
asciilifeform	;;google phillip greenspun women computing	[20:14]
gribble	Women in Computing - Philip Greenspun: ; Women in Science - Philip Greenspun: ; Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Women and computer programmers:	[20:14]
asciilifeform	2nd link is it.	[20:14]
asciilifeform	(this is not really about women, but about american academia)	[20:14]
decimation	yeah that's a good article	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	i recall that articxle.	[20:14]
asciilifeform	'Does this make sense as a career for anyone? Absolutely! Just get out your atlas.'	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	i hate greenspun for having deleted his original discussion of his adventures with "expert vcs"	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	greylock and co	[20:15]
benkay	bounce: that's what i'm working on. -assets has been an intellectual godsend.	[20:15]
benkay	in other news, my user group got kicked from our corporate sponsor's shop next month for a "women in tech event"	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	benkay https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 there's one jus' for you then :D	[20:16]
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benkay	"great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally.	[20:16]
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asciilifeform	'The first round of layoffs had started. Salaries were frozen. Requests for new laptop computers were being denied. Meanwhile, Handler had an enormous marble archway installed in the atrium of the Carter Ink Building. When a national supercomputer conference was held in Seattle, she decided to stay in San Francisco and commute to Seattle from the swank Stanford Court Hotel. She commissioned a $40,000 logo desig	[20:17]
asciilifeform	n for a CM-5 sweatshirt and then rejected it. While the company was sinking, she focused her attention on putting out a cookbook with recipes from the company's now-infamous cafeteria. Increasingly paranoid, she had a video camera aimed at her personal parking spot and, by some accounts, made people take meetings with her in her parked car. She hired a bodyguard, telling her colleagues that she had received dea	[20:17]
asciilifeform	th threats. Some members of Thinking Machines' board suddenly seemed to realize that the person who had been running the company all those years had no business skills. The board discussed dumping Handler, but she managed to get her biggest enemies there kicked off.'	[20:17]
asciilifeform	(from the 'thinking machines' obituary)	[20:17]
the20year1	nice	[20:17]
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benkay	mircea_popescu: you're not paying me to spend any time at that domain i don't think	[20:18]
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mircea_popescu	im sure i don't.	[20:18]
benkay	so let 'em rot.	[20:19]
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asciilifeform	benkay: re: 'w. in comp.' - the maggots on the corpse, are not the murder weapon.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	^	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	aptly put.	[20:19]
decimation	at least Mr. Cray had the good sense to die in a car accident	[20:19]
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asciilifeform	for instance:	[20:20]
asciilifeform	the uni where i studied 'comp sci' has abolished many of the hardest items in the syllabus (or made them optional)	[20:20]
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asciilifeform	i visited recently, to hear a talk, and noticed more girls in one classroom than there ever were in the whole bldg.	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	i had a friend. he was a touch paranoid, so he ended up carrying a bodyguard with him everywhere, in spite of living in a controlled town	[20:21]
asciilifeform	but i don't blame them for the decline	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	(1994-2004 a 300k pop town had exactly 0 murders)	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	eventually he got an electyed position, which gave him a driver.	[20:21]
asciilifeform	'controlled' as in, say, Chelyabinsk-40 ?	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	he hated being driven around, so his car arrangement consisted of him driving two people about, who had nothing to do.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	eventually he died, in a car crash, rushing home tired etc.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	i wanted the obituary to read "at least he had his bodyguard with him" but people thought it's too soon.	[20:22]
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asciilifeform	people love stories like this ('mighty hero dies of paper cut')	[20:23]
asciilifeform	e.g. alexander	[20:23]
decimation	yeah perhaps it is still too early for my dark Seymour Cray joke. He was a giant amoung elves	[20:24]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, check out benkay ascetically depriving himself of internet lulz.	[20:25]
decimation	http://www.computer.org/portal/web/awards/seymourbio ?Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system.?	[20:25]
ozbot	Seymour Cray Biography	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	the path to pain starts with but a single step!	[20:25]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Always interesting to see your stats	[20:27]
benkay	internet lulz are cheap, mircea_popescu.	[20:28]
benkay	and those aren't even terribly lulzy!	[20:28]
benkay	pantagruel and gargantua is more entertaining than btctalk.org	[20:28]
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benkay	Wooster and Jeeves being far more entertaining on basically every metric.	[20:29]
benkay	written by professionals, acted by professionals...	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	ineed.	[20:31]
bounce	I say. In the spirit of expensive lulz, wish I had the spare change to buy up cray and move their headquarters to 4 2nd inf loop	[20:31]
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asciilifeform	cray was a titan	[20:36]
asciilifeform	invented (among a hundred other things) 'pipelining'	[20:36]
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the20year1	without him we wouldn't have the last starfighter	[20:38]
asciilifeform	as someone who personally had occasion to deal with problems that are not amenable to '1024 chickens,' i miss cray	[20:38]
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asciilifeform	who doesn't know the old, unofficial and very alliterative slogan of the (traditional) nsa - 'acres of crays'	[20:44]
asciilifeform	some of the (officially released, not leaked) papers of the latter reveal that crap corp. was 'bailed out' as a 'national seekoority' matter	[20:45]
asciilifeform	*cray corp	[20:45]
asciilifeform	damn	[20:45]
asciilifeform	sad thing is, they sell 'chickens' now.	[20:46]
asciilifeform	like everybody else.	[20:46]
asciilifeform	(x86-64)	[20:48]
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asciilifeform	perhaps if cray were alive, you could buy 'fpga' the size of a billboard...	[20:49]
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mircea_popescu	im bashing the crap corp	[20:50]
asciilifeform	lol	[20:50]
asciilifeform	fingers have will of their own.	[20:50]
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ThickAsThieves	ThickAsThieves is that dope ? /// is what what now?	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	some round small shits in a pic you linked	[20:58]
ThickAsThieves	oh, I assume so	[20:58]
ThickAsThieves	who knows, kids these days	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	racist.	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	I;m writing my first blog	[20:59]
the20year1	yay	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	having trouble keeping it short	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	oh well	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentViewer.aspx?fid=54539da2-994e-43b5-b271-19fbb7e723e3	[21:00]
ozbot	Markopolos Letter to the SEC about Madoff \| Doug Cornelius - JDSupra	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	if anyones curious to read fiat mpoe-pr cca 2005	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	(of course, the guy was ignored. by the sec and everyone else on the fiat-forums)	[21:00]
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ThickAsThieves	i started this writing thinking i wouldnt be a hipster and use footnotes	[21:01]
ThickAsThieves	i was wrong	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason footnotes survived three empires.	[21:02]
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mircea_popescu	"Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	s I get a good day).	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine, the next my face aches, tinnitus (motor in my ear), then suddenly my abdomen, then feet, then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling that my stomach wants to exit my body, etc.."	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	why is it that bitcoin attracts all the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	what are we supposed to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?!	[21:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6334999 BTC [-]	[21:13]
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jurov	mircea_popescu: if they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here, too	[21:24]
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jurov	what i heard ibm job is much cozier than getting worried for several months if that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	but in the sense of accident "i'd have been to busy to hear of bitcoin" or in the sense of stupidity ?	[21:24]
jurov	not stupidity, just choosing easier path	[21:25]
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mircea_popescu	how shall i put this in better terms.	[21:25]
jurov	but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll try freelancing	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	well but wait.	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	here's the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes to new york. there's no jobs there, so he goes to oregon and makes himself a cabin.	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	that's type one.	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	suppose there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all the beat cops know him so he goes to oregon	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	and he loiters there for a while, not as disturbed.	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	that's type two.	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	now you telling me there's no difference you see here ?	[21:27]
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jurov	i'm just telling you why i think non-cruft fails to be attracted to bitcoin	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	greenspun's 4th, linked earlier hehe	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	"This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs."	[21:28]
jurov	cannot say anything about the cruft group	[21:28]
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jurov	i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense they can get easily over-average salary) trapped in conspirational mindset	[21:40]
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jurov	to them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose	[21:40]
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mircea_popescu	gotta pierce that veil.	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them.	[21:42]
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mircea_popescu	Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster.	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	epic.	[21:45]
benkay	mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running their businesses, tending to their mistresses etc?	[21:49]
Dimsler	lol	[21:49]
decimation	well, academia has been transformed into bureaucratic employment	[21:49]
Dimsler	bitcoin = pyramid scheme	[21:49]
Dimsler	at this point	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	you'd have to be an idiot to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so that you tend to them.	[21:50]
kakobrekla	no, its a triangle of opportunity	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	they should tend to you.	[21:50]
benkay	wait how does the business tend to you?	[21:50]
decimation	what's the difference between the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a tenure check?	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion to your actual effort	[21:50]
benkay	mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but the business? does it not take ongoing tweaking and leadership?	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	if you want bread, and i want bread, and you spend an hour and make a loaf	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	and i spend an hour and make forty-nine and a half loaves	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	i'd say my business tended to me worth 48 loaves and change.	[21:51]
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benkay	ah.	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a time before that.	[21:53]
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decimation	certainly those who desire attention would be willing to pay to work as a teacher, actor, etc	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	now, obviously, training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	but provided you're any good the end result is so far out of proportion to the original that your net negative becomes a rounding error.	[21:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00094618 = 23.3233 BTC [+]	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	anyway, for balance, http://calvincorreli.com/2002/02/08/goodbye-arsdigita/	[21:58]
benkay	ah sorry net negative? even after the time and energy pumped into the new girl or venture?	[21:59]
benkay	strikes me that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting tendered.	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	reread eh.	[22:01]
decimation	?SAP is the best thing that ever happened to	[22:01]
decimation	computer people. It appeals to businesses that are too stupid to	[22:01]
decimation	understand and model their own processes but too rich to simply	[22:01]
decimation	continue relying on secretaries and file cabinets,?	[22:01]
decimation	lol	[22:01]
decimation	and why are they "too rich" to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	you clearly haven't been in business in the old days.	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	the one affront an old lion could never forget, let alone forgive, would be hiring his secretary away.	[22:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 174 @ 0.00591526 = 1.0293 BTC [-] {13}	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	the reason is that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating those filing cabinets is worth ?	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	to this day the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where the binder goes.	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	not she who can take out the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in.	[22:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 21 @ 0.05897618 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {5}	[22:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200105 = 0.124 BTC [-]	[22:07]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, let's do the world a favor here	[22:07]
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mircea_popescu	;;later tell bugpowder http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science	[22:07]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[22:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0639314 = 0.1918 BTC [+] {3}	[22:10]
peterl	.bait	[22:11]
ozbot	http://25.media.tumblr.com/852d012f6af549de7e0f12f261d96b2d/tumblr_n0sd2mEtGE1rz1q6ko1_1280.jpg	[22:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.631 = 1.262 BTC [-] {2}	[22:12]
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ninjashogun	hi	[22:13]
ninjashogun	hi, mircea_popescu	[22:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07589957 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}	[22:13]
ninjashogun!@	added to ignore list.	[22:13]
decimation	yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable	[22:14]
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decimation	the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem	[22:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00571404 = 2.857 BTC [-] {10}	[22:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1028 @ 0.00094618 = 0.9727 BTC [+]	[22:21]
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mircea_popescu	benkay incidentally, this approach also illustrates what exactly the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged.	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	"underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity.	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite to both.	[22:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06449997 = 0.258 BTC [+] {4}	[22:24]
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ThickAsThieves	mp, youve got pm	[22:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.00453907 = 0.1135 BTC [+] {3}	[22:28]
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decimation	the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons?	[22:31]
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asciilifeform	always neglected is the question of wtf means 'earned.' i.e. the fellow who faithfully sits through traffic and warms a chair for 8hr/day moving paper from one pile to another, in the popular imagination, 'earns' something.	[22:32]
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asciilifeform	hi ninjashogun	[22:37]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07416684 = 0.445 BTC [-] {3}	[22:39]
asciilifeform	ninjashogun: care to explain?	[22:39]
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asciilifeform	ninjashogun: steve jobs was famously asked, some time in '07, why he won't sell a 'netbook'	[22:41]
CheckDavid	My fellow brothers and sisters praiser the lord	[22:41]
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asciilifeform	and answered something like, 'if you mean a $300 small laptop, we don't know how to make one that isn't a piece of shit.'	[22:42]
decimation	ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect?	[22:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-]	[22:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-] {2}	[22:43]
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asciilifeform	that is approximately what i said, yes.	[22:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06200008 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}	[22:44]
asciilifeform	it is absolutely crucial that a cardano owner fully understand the gravity of his situation	[22:44]
asciilifeform	in the event of loss	[22:45]
decimation	there's no method to gaurantee the integrity of any device that could have been in the enemy's hands	[22:45]
asciilifeform	decimation: correct. i'm glad somebody gets this	[22:46]
decimation	well, then how does checking for std's map to this?	[22:46]
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asciilifeform	let's say that you own a pistol. it gets stolen and replaced without your knowledge for one that: shoots backwards.	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	std's are a very narrowly restricted set of problems	[22:48]
asciilifeform	before you laugh, the americans actually did this to the vietnamese on a few occasions	[22:48]
asciilifeform	;;google project eldest son	[22:48]
gribble	Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles \|: ; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam \| Field ...: (1 more message)	[22:48]
decimation	seems like a sound plan	[22:49]
decimation	nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are their problem	[22:50]
asciilifeform	'steering wheel spike' is a thought experiment, not a business plan.	[22:51]
benkay	how does this printed key work with the "fry" switch?	[22:52]
benkay	or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun?	[22:52]
asciilifeform	benkay: it wouldn't, clearly. this is lunacy.	[22:52]
benkay	i'm trying to drag the lunacy out into the open, asciilifeform.	[22:52]
benkay	(kicking and screaming though it may)	[22:52]
benkay	if the users of the cardano need the key printed on the outside to incentivize them to treat it carefully, those are the wrong customers for NSA.	[22:53]
benkay	again with this "mass market, make it stupid" SV bullshit.	[22:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00094635 = 19.4948 BTC [-]	[22:53]
asciilifeform	in my earlier conversation with ninjashogun, i tried to explain the concept of only solving technical problems that can be solved -well-.	[22:54]
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benkay	don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?!	[22:54]
benkay	incorrect.	[22:55]
benkay	sign the cardano key with your master key, and revoke it when you lose it.	[22:55]
benkay	wave hands	[22:55]
asciilifeform	benkay is correct.	[22:55]
decimation	tamper evident seals?	[22:55]
benkay	there's more to it than that, but that's the high-level approach.	[22:55]
asciilifeform	decimation: owner is free to apply his own seals.	[22:55]
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benkay	ninjashogun: that's the whole point of "you guarantee physical security, cardano guarantees electrical security."	[22:56]
benkay	if you can't guarantee physical security, the device is useless.	[22:56]
asciilifeform	the only seal that is worth anything at all is a custom, preferably invisible one (e.g. perfume, specks of dust) applied by the owner.	[22:56]
asciilifeform	as discussed in mp's essay	[22:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094607 = 11.684 BTC [-] {2}	[22:56]
asciilifeform	likewise, if i applied some magical seal (assume one exists) the buyer is unable to dissect his unit without losing it	[22:57]
asciilifeform	so the effort would be wasted.	[22:57]
decimation	'professional' crypto products have a zeroize key http://www.gdc4s.com/Documents/Products/Secure%20Voice%20and%20Data/Network%20Encryption/GD-TACLANE-Micro-w.pdf	[22:57]
asciilifeform	zeroize key is as old as time.	[22:57]
asciilifeform	19th c. codebooks came with anchors.	[22:57]
asciilifeform	(drop overboard)	[22:57]
benkay	lol anchors	[22:57]
benkay	!t m s.nsa	[22:58]
assbot	[MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000145 / 0.00015512 / 0.000156 (1000 shares, 0.16 BTC), 7D: 0.0001 / 0.00010918 / 0.000156 (6000 shares, 0.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.0001236 / 0.00021 (79650 shares, 9.85 BTC)	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	they did	[22:59]
asciilifeform	certainly	[23:00]
asciilifeform	just as diamonds, pistols, nukes, are lost and stolen	[23:00]
asciilifeform	obligatory:	[23:03]
asciilifeform	http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered	[23:03]
ozbot	Shall be Delivered \| The Whet	[23:03]
decimation	can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution.	[23:04]
asciilifeform	ninjashogun: i am sad to say that you appear to have learned nothing from our conversation.	[23:04]
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benkay	asciilifeform: do you think this is a case for Hanlon?	[23:06]
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decimation	it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features	[23:08]
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Apocalyptic	dafuq am I reading	[23:08]
benkay	Apocalyptic: madness.	[23:09]
decimation	he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather	[23:09]
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asciilifeform	decimation: that's the most charitable explanation.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	tibby is back !?	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	o the shogun guy. ya well...	[23:10]
benkay	ninjashogun: how would you make the key less accesible to an attacker?	[23:10]
benkay	mircea_popescu: tib's my thesis here.	[23:10]
benkay	ninjashogun: all trolls say "I'm not a troll".	[23:11]
Apocalyptic	ninjashogun, I hope i don't use any products resulting of your experience	[23:11]
benkay	sorry - inaccessible.	[23:11]
benkay	less accessible is not acceptable.	[23:11]
benkay	(for reasons you fail apparently to grasp)	[23:12]
benkay	seems as though you're the only one.	[23:12]
benkay	i think there's a good reason society's locked you up in a 100/mo shithole, sir.	[23:12]
diametric	oh he's back	[23:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0619926 = 0.124 BTC [+] {2}	[23:13]
benkay	you're incapable of even convincing the government to pay your welfare.	[23:13]
asciilifeform	in safety engineering, there is a concept where precautions that annoy people and get in the way of work tend to make construction workers, oil prospectors, etc. worse off	[23:13]
asciilifeform	than nothing at all	[23:13]
asciilifeform	household example would be a smoke alarm that goes off every time you overcook a potato	[23:13]
asciilifeform	it tends to end up unplugged and in a parts bin	[23:14]
Mats_cd03	oh snap	[23:14]
Mats_cd03	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FekvruRUi24	[23:15]
ozbot	Keyboard fight - YouTube	[23:15]
decimation	ninjashgun has your startup managed to acquire financing?	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	http://25.media.tumblr.com/06e3229410ffb29f7afcd5039ace6c68/tumblr_mp5ahyJaww1rsltkro1_1280.jpg	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	in other news	[23:15]
Mats_cd03	whenever i see tumblr my brain tells me "boobies"	[23:16]
Mats_cd03	ive been trained by mp to react to tumblr	[23:16]
asciilifeform	i, personally, have nothing against paupers who live in $100, or even $10 ditches, and cannot finance anything	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	titsbler	[23:16]
asciilifeform	but then come the 'ideas'	[23:16]
*	tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:17]
Mats_cd03	your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive	[23:18]
*	Namworld (Namworld@modemcable041.115-177-173.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:18]
Mats_cd03	oops forgot an /s	[23:18]
Mats_cd03	thats cool, what was the service or good being sold	[23:19]
Mats_cd03	im actually not trolling	[23:19]
Mats_cd03	but consulting firms are cool, i guess...	[23:20]
benkay	kakobrekla save us	[23:20]
Mats_cd03	so much for innovation	[23:20]
*	Ghaleon_ (~wad@207-38-217-231.c3-0.43d-ubr1.qens-43d.ny.cable.rcn.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
*	tyrion70 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:20]
Mats_cd03	i think youve spent too much time drinking the silicon valley koolaid	[23:21]
Mats_cd03	if an idea was special nobody would be	[23:22]
Mats_cd03	lol	[23:22]
asciilifeform	ninjashogun walks into 'alcoholics anonymous' with a jug of moonshine. 'perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with this!'	[23:23]
Mats_cd03	i can't speak for anyone else	[23:23]
asciilifeform	everyone with a net connection, including Pashtuns using steam modems with ip-over-dead-goat have, at this point, 'had bad experience with startups.'	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	hahaha steam modems ?	[23:24]
benkay	ip-over-dead-goat!	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	your figures are good :D	[23:24]
*	daybyter (~andreas@88-134-90-238-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:25]
asciilifeform	i had a dream as a kid where me modem (old at&t 'paragon' fished from a skip) was a gas modem, and i forgot to turn off the gas	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	clearly someone's mom was intent on stove discipline	[23:25]
asciilifeform	(i know of no real life 'gas modem' but folks have proposed using gas, water, even sewer pipes for 'last mile' ip so be careful what you wish for)	[23:25]
decimation	'last mile' power line modems are particuarly idiotic	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	"send emails over your farts! it's great for the environment and ok for your wallpaper"	[23:26]
decimation	spam the shortwave spectrum for a few megabits	[23:26]
*	asciilifeform looks for and fails to find the old article on robotic rats used to run wire through sewer pipes	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	i wonder if real rats ever tried to mate with them	[23:27]
*	maricnx (uid26428@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwubrrgwtydyjsds) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:27]
decimation	sending data through an accoustically coupled gas pipe would be amusing but slow	[23:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06200001 = 0.186 BTC [-] {2}	[23:28]
asciilifeform	http://www.oobject.com/category/super-sewer-robots/	[23:28]
ozbot	PricewaterhouseCoopers: Global: Insights & Solutions: MoneyTree	[23:28]
ozbot	super sewer robots	[23:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.11950724 = 0.717 BTC [-]	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	decimation and if there's a gas explosion everyone gets unfriended ?	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	whole neighbourhood!	[23:29]
dub	I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university	[23:29]
benkay	valuation ≠ value.	[23:30]
asciilifeform	http://www.inspector-systems.com/makro_plus.html	[23:30]
ozbot	INSPECTOR SYSTEMS - MAKRO Plus, Service robots for sewer inspection	[23:30]
asciilifeform	etc	[23:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.0009479 = 17.1342 BTC [+] {3}	[23:30]
asciilifeform	i saw a much simpler (cable-driven) version of this being used right here on my street.	[23:30]
benkay	you miss the point again.	[23:31]
asciilifeform	your heart, liver, corneas have a valuation. ask the chinese. anybody paid yet/	[23:31]
asciilifeform	?	[23:31]
benkay	so all of GLBSE is worthwhile i guess.	[23:31]
dub	CSS == value	[23:32]
benkay	PMB's == value	[23:32]
asciilifeform	ok found it:	[23:32]
asciilifeform	http://forbiddenhillcrest.tumblr.com/post/4322296903/the-sewer-robots-of-pulaski-county	[23:32]
ozbot	Forbidden Hillcrest, The Sewer Robots of Pulaski County	[23:32]
asciilifeform	this is quite like the one i saw.	[23:32]
decimation	interesting. Such a robot could be quite useful for setting up covert data connections	[23:33]
Namworld	http://www.oobject.com/super-sewer-robots/insight-vision-jet-propelled-camera/1871/	[23:36]
ozbot	Insight Vision Jet Propelled Camera	[23:36]
*	decimation has quit (Quit: quitting!)	[23:37]
Namworld	Protoss Observer, sewer model	[23:37]
ozbot	The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets -- Adams and Hillman 7 (2): 89 -- Injury Prevention	[23:37]
mircea_popescu	obviously my client splits it up as pula ski	[23:37]
Mats_cd03	what is this "stove discipline" you speak of	[23:40]
Mats_cd03	is this something you can only experience in the dreaded lubyanka	[23:41]
*	libbelol (~libbelol@80.202.99.213) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	well, natural gas is dangerous, in that it'll level a house.	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	pretty much the only way kids and senile old people have of causing serious trouble	[23:42]
asciilifeform	speaking of which,	[23:42]
asciilifeform	http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/uptown/businesses-closed-week-explosion-article-1.1729672	[23:42]
ozbot	Merchants shut down after East Harlem gas explosion plead for help - NY Daily News	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	sahara boutique	[23:43]
asciilifeform	http://www.trbimg.com/img-53211025/turbine/la-apphoto-aptopix-nyc-explosion2-jpg-20140312/600	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	sounds promising.	[23:43]
*	nubbins` (~leel@stjhnf0148w-142134196038.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nl.bellaliant.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	116th street wow. and yet it has buildings and everything ?!	[23:44]
*	tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:44]
asciilifeform	given how it was an almost surgical demolition job of most of a block, probably a basement leak	[23:45]
asciilifeform	but ianafi (i am not a fire inspector)...	[23:45]
nubbins`	who is?!	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	so the city is responsible huh ?	[23:46]
asciilifeform	http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/16/us-usa-new-york-collapse-idUSBREA2F0IU20140316	[23:46]
ozbot	Crews focus on gas lines in New York building explosion	[23:46]
*	wilimprex has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[23:50]
*	coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:50]
*	toffoo (~tof@189.4.198.221) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArwAAAGbBAMAAADU1V5jAAAAJFBMVEX////g4OAgICBgYGBAQEAAAACgoKDAwMCAgIDl5f/U1O3d3d00vM7SAAAURUlEQVR4nO2du3MbNx7HoQcszbjR5DF3paLHJaXOGWVSchwzcQnThG0NG41z7jWZ81zryUWX9hoWTH9FOjWs/M/d4rUvYHcB7EKiud/vaChyd38L8MMfQQD7w28JgSAIatZnR37HeR4Wpb2LhCd/UH3B50ePnp5dE35D5pTzud6+d/JNtvPsiHB+KsgeMvLPs5uDpz9lz80x08qZ9l6T8yN6rF9lx9CJeipPn72eyw2fn/yYPe48Obs2+4sjt0+X73+ZXJ4+eUn4JHv/p99+Z7Y/n16Qk9sJ	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	mX2bPSGHU3Yw/+31++fTmya8j97s8Ov3xg9LeOXpDd6d8x/OP2TfmfmTNwXU6Wm6N/iwmtJH/8ne+vR69ka7l9IJ2Z+Qky8vMi67x5lrPmF7L3ZeXh5lW7JN81+/Jm+/mWYOff3u4vaDMpk/Ort4d51tOnj6Y3bM93RyebM7IY/k6Q3evVdkl2XIr8k5fX5ys3dyejR/ez63K7Ydup0e7b0g5MuL+eXNnJ49+0lvn/6ePfxyKlh+dpw93Wf7jMyn0iXnhH87P5j9xg9e/vx6/9WZNnl6+Pz4Umx6/112rv2v6OT9h/fXRJ2eZ+2OsBWf1ZH49MgOnV8eX353ezE7297G4fB8/gUTX+T57kS0va+yTc8yD/3r+fxo5+mbvQ8Zlw+kjndGzjNq54ezZy93zl9rk3df/M7OxKbbs+	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	nF7OkRneweXx5lluL0s2fPJF5NUrgrPd5l/9p5P5ltcdtL6O0PynsP3ujGYY8fi39vj/e/un1yPXv2XLyq4p2TafZyuid+Ci8n2uTLt9ev3ohNl5xP+CzDe/g682z95dCNQ+a9OzfSe/9CJ/vs85PLyXyL8f6b7v5NN46X5bb3LAOxe7w3M79j+9W2N0MrvPcFOdo5ea1Nds+Pnr4Qm26Pdsjs7YROdubZl8Fue49l23si8E6zD2Gb8V6+0z2H7CdM9By+N9uznsPe/Fd+k+M9mP36+v035zcar2h7d85+frX/+kSbHM7I7bHY9NmPl9fzw1cZtOkxKfccTr/9e6XnkOH9fprh3f363t/3PWk/+xbrjumBaHtnevuh6Pc+Of3sOMdL/nF280j3ezO85O3pue456M7YwUvy7oLk	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	PYfMO8Xrcr9XNO3lfu8+++Ls7VdzcnhmV2xL9GXK4djtdcKTfxLaS3ju3Vn3MVC09n7qPgaCoAcV5YRzlj0Swpn4g4YUI4zJR0IJzf4euj5bpka8HOotphoHF96rVaD+DDUo648+xj2tk9X8v0yCFQ4MvMOXDbxSafGyBrzLrPW4WmX/ruTBS75aXcnHVbZlKbdl/5dyT/b3pzyWr9ThysZplJ0wNzJ7dBnDv0UfJcSbtb36r9Yxy/EWKK+WV+Ixe71ccb1tqfZkf//LjhXY1OFXqzajpTHSe5Z/LBO9RR8lxNuoMt7lUpMwpFZl75V7VlfSe8t4eaPRKjfSn9DI8epvsyG1NB6dHaH3mMbhKm8cJGeX0dXK7MmeZo/i9H/wRG/RRw+Od7VcrUqOeLWstL2F9670sTlet5HZow	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	iLPXzU3lsjtYrBu7Lwlg5E49CK98q0vV54cyOzZ8Rtr+hHiZ+2vI+11H2sK/PTlnfMlrqPdSVaZfnEZSQ7ZmJPdnqzZ1s7Zi14C7ld66r68s/GPS1GHpX00CeIt7zLOY9W33jXfnj7rsfNJh7qZ12qec+y6++OWRNjrNgVqMEqed/WQ9WcAa9TQ+FlNl6mx8IZWTk0Bt7osrkDL+VU/XHGmfgrdgVq9Hhd3ivAqj/GOfAGiz7OSTU0DoKtuJ7JKOMEeIPEOvBSxVZ4r6QLvEFinBpmrAEv4wqvbB6AN0iMduKVLS9+2qIk8PIWvFnbS0R3LKOLjlm4mPj2K1TchRfDiqSNA/D2w0sUXknZgb	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	ouch	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	sorry!	[23:54]
asciilifeform	puzzle for us all?	[23:54]
benkay	pastebin?	[23:55]
benkay	plus context?	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	its the ^OEX chart, 5 years, weekly	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	it looks beyond fucking ridiculous	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	here, i'll summarize it for you :	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	/	[23:56]
Mats_cd03	it all makes sense now	[23:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6139998 BTC [+]	[23:56]
Mats_cd03	not	[23:56]
benkay	nice steady rate of inflation in the usd?	[23:57]
*	tyrion70 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 the ^OEX, ie standard and poor 100, is the index of us stocks. which supposedly have been moving like it's animated by the gosplan	[23:57]
Mats_cd03	i see	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	benkay from 500 to 800 in 2 years ?	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	it was 500ish in 2002.	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	it was 500ish in 2007	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	it was 500ish in 2012	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	but since...	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	25+% a year, twice madoff's presumed return.	[23:59]

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