Forum logs for 22 Mar 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37150 @ 0.00093441 = 34.7133 BTC [+] [00:01]
cazalla mircea_popescu: i could've bought cheaper than $2 but like most idiots, i dismissed it [00:04]
cazalla and it wasn't me that recommended black mirror [00:05]
mircea_popescu now suffer. [00:05]
cazalla looks interesting though [00:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00093441 = 11.3064 BTC [+] [00:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07489628 = 0.3745 BTC [+] {2} [00:08]
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Mats_cd03 has anyone tried and have anything to say about it? [00:17]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01686047 = 0.3541 BTC [-] {4} [00:18]
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benkay aren't they the assholes who want your private key? [00:19]
mircea_popescu i recall people briefly considering and dimissing it [00:19]
benkay "On the website, all crypto is performed in JavaScript, in your browser. Some people have strong feelings about this, for good reason." [00:19]
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Mats_cd03 i have been told the implementation is undesirable [00:20]
Mats_cd03 i appreciate your opinion [00:20]
benkay " is also a Keybase client, however certain crypto actions (signing and decrypting) are limited to users who store client-encrypted copies of their private keys on the server, an optional feature we didn't mention above." [00:21]
benkay it's a feature! [00:21]
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the20year1 I coulda bought bitcoins at 10c/ea [00:22]
the20year1 but decided against it when faucets were free [00:22]
benkay Mats_cd03: i don't see the utility of training people out of good crypto habits. [00:22]
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Mats_cd03 i don't either [00:23]
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benkay actually, I do, but it's nefarious. [00:24]
benkay and I won't stand for it. [00:24]
asciilifeform if livestock could be trained to seppuku, wouldn't need butcher. [00:25]
kakobrekla do you think they have that much dignity? [00:25]
Mats_cd03 life is an indignity [00:26]
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benkay and a burden [00:27]
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benkay don't tell that to the geneticists from this morning, jurov [00:34]
benkay oh it'll turn into a whole purpose of breeding niggers.txt thing [00:35]
benkay god no [00:35]
dexX7 you guys were saying several times that the largest amount of bitcoin stolen from gox was rather in 2011 and 2012. is there any reference? what was mentioned in the drama timeline accounts for about 20k only [00:38]
dexX7 ah so this is simply an assumption? [00:41]
benkay jurov: [00:44]
dexX7 well, i thought it was here at least ;) [00:45]
mircea_popescu o look it's a jurov [00:48]
mircea_popescu how;s the snow ? [00:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22093 @ 0.00093441 = 20.6439 BTC [+] [00:50]
mircea_popescu dexX7 it's unclear what happened recently with gox. [00:50]
mircea_popescu the actual quote from drama timeline as to 2011 hack is "Amusingly, reports about the security such as it was having been breached were trickling in for weeks prior. Tis impossible to evaluate the actual loss with this one, but suffice it to observe that BTC was temporarily trading for 1 cent at the time." [00:51]
mircea_popescu which just goes to show mtgox is continuing in the same tradition [00:51]
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mircea_popescu [00:53]
mircea_popescu phin is trolling pretty hard :D [00:53]
dexX7 ic. by the way: [00:53]
mircea_popescu interesting. these are plots on the leaked data huh ? [00:55]
mircea_popescu useful effort, tho obviously one'd have to be cautious allocating too much credibility to the underlying datapoints. [00:55]
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mircea_popescu sooo... some noob made a post suggesting is/was in cahoots with gox and waning against it. that post is now deleted off forum [00:57]
mircea_popescu anyone happened to have retained a copy ? [00:57]
mircea_popescu or for that matter, anyone happen to be the noob in question. [00:57]
dexX7 there is some kind of mirror forum of btctalk which does not delete deleted posts [00:58]
mircea_popescu ttps:// [00:58]
mircea_popescu found a repost. [00:58]
dexX7 [00:59]
mircea_popescu tl;dr : "My guess: they lost money on trades while Gox was Goxing people, and now they're passing this loss on to "suspicious" accounts." [00:59]
BCB dexX7: what is that [00:59]
mircea_popescu BCB a mirror so as to prevent deletion of interesting material. [00:59]
BCB interesting. [01:00]
dexX7 tbh i don't know exactly what it is. i guess the attempt to create bitcointalk 2.0 [01:00]
BCB The FEDs already have a mirror [01:00]
BCB dexX7: GOAT is trying to do that [01:00]
dexX7 a lot of people tried, i heard [01:00]
BCB mircea_popescu: you should conduct your own investigation into Satoshi Dice [01:01]
mircea_popescu so far relatively little grounds to. [01:01]
jurov lol i almost forgotten the snow by now [01:01]
BCB mircea_popescu: uncover the identy of the "mysterious buyer" [01:02]
mircea_popescu that's a fiat world thing to do neh ? [01:02]
mircea_popescu "Seems like this is the equivalent of a LE officer asking to search your car or house looking for evidence." [01:04]
mircea_popescu teh peanut gallery will turn evertything into its owne experiences. [01:04]
dexX7 why should one care about the buyer? [01:05]
mircea_popescu bitcoin economy ? like the supermarket! regulatory matters ? like a traffic cop stop! [01:05]
dexX7 it's only a thing between erik and the buyer [01:05]
mircea_popescu everything's like a peanut to these people. [01:05]
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jurov mircea_popescu: oh and the trilema comment was meant like TIL what I said. [01:11]
jurov or TIL I should not interject with stupid remarks [01:11]
mircea_popescu lol ? [01:11]
jurov [01:11]
ozbot This privacy thing… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [01:11]
mircea_popescu yeah, srsly, no jurovs were raped in the makes of these epic lolz. [01:12]
mircea_popescu Bijan Sabet @bijan So I have this friend who wants a motorcycle. But my wife, I mean, his wife doesn't think it's a great idea. Any ideas how to win her over? [01:13]
mircea_popescu Kevin Thau @kevinthau · 12m @bijan I have the same friend. [01:13]
mircea_popescu Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu · 19s @bijan … (nsfw, meaning not safe for wife). [01:13]
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jurov is she sitting on the grill? riding over cobblestones? [01:15]
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jurov yea definitely nsfw [01:15]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.059 = 0.236 BTC [+] [01:15]
benkay mine liked it [01:16]
benkay but you know, pet redheads etc. [01:16]
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dexX7 to what office belongs +0731 076 827? [01:17]
jurov dexX7 wrong window [01:18]
dexX7 nope [01:18]
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dexX7 was mentioned in the trilema article [01:19]
dexX7 "Not that I don’t maintain offices or anything, you can call +0731 076 827 and talk to the receptionist any time you feel like." [01:19]
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mircea_popescu dexX7 that'd seem to contain your answer ? [01:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.059 = 0.354 BTC [+] {2} [01:22]
dexX7 no. >> what office? - it belongs to an office [01:23]
mircea_popescu mine dood. [01:23]
pizzaman1337 I can't imagine MP going to an office [01:24]
jurov inb4 TIL. [01:24]
mircea_popescu it's really just a converted sauna [01:24]
pizzaman1337 that makes me feel better [01:25]
mircea_popescu i just go there to lay on a couch with all sorts of flatware all over my head [01:25]
pizzaman1337 pics or it didn't happen [01:26]
pizzaman1337 :) [01:26]
benkay [01:26]
benkay heh im a museum [01:26]
benkay great url [01:26]
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dexX7 well the thing is, there is not even one phone number country code starting with a 7 :p [01:28]
jurov mp has own code [01:28]
mircea_popescu you add the country code [01:28]
dexX7 then don't use a + [01:29]
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jurov ^ true dat [01:29]
mircea_popescu [01:30]
ozbot How to call Romania: country code, area codes, phone books [01:30]
radan are you in romania, dr. popescu? [01:30]
mircea_popescu yeah [01:30]
radan most financial people I know move to places like london and nyc [01:30]
mircea_popescu dexX7 i guess you'd want to see +40 731 076 827 ? [01:30]
radan I guess btc is decentralized enough for that not to be necessary for you [01:30]
benkay bitcoin finance happens anywhere but london and nyc, radan [01:30]
radan right [01:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96850 @ 0.00093923 = 90.9644 BTC [+] {5} [01:30]
mircea_popescu well there was some in nyc [01:30]
radan like moscow [01:30]
radan and omsk [01:30]
radan and chisinau [01:31]
jurov pyongyang [01:31]
benkay problem is keeping bitcoins within reach of the United States Government. [01:31]
dexX7 yes, please. :p [01:31]
mircea_popescu aite. [01:31]
radan why doesn't north korea start an exchange [01:31]
benkay why bother? they just print all the usd they need for their iphones and chandon. [01:32]
pizzaman1337 they'd need electricity first [01:32]
mircea_popescu lol [01:32]
mircea_popescu they have electricity. they make people turn a huge wheel [01:32]
jurov radan you can easily wire usd thre? [01:32]
radan I don't know [01:33]
radan I'm the last person to ask about the north korean economy [01:33]
mircea_popescu it's a mess. [01:36]
mircea_popescu for one thing, they had a kidnapping white women programme going since the 70s, so you can't conveniently take a harem over unelss you actually shoot the little rat [01:37]
mircea_popescu whatever his name is, kim-stuffed-cabbage [01:37]
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dexX7 some guy on wikipedia uses trilema comments as reference.. hehe [01:45]
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mircea_popescu ajaha [01:47]
mircea_popescu so wait, wait. i said in a comment on trilema that the hansa exists since 1267 and thus this is the source of wikipedia ? [01:48]
pizzaman1337 [unreliable source?] [01:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16597 @ 0.00094018 = 15.6042 BTC [+] {2} [01:48]
mircea_popescu flattering. [01:48]
mircea_popescu anyway. there's an english royal charter mentioning the name [01:48]
mircea_popescu " Sciatis me concessisse civibus meis de [01:50]
mircea_popescu Escardeburg omnes libertates et leges et consuetudines suas, et nomina- [01:50]
mircea_popescu tim Gildam suam mercatoriam et hansas suas in Anglia et Normannia [01:50]
mircea_popescu et lestagia sua per totam costam maris quieta, et quod praedictas leges [01:50]
mircea_popescu et consuetudines habeant et teneant cum omnibus libertatibus praedictae [01:50]
mircea_popescu Gildae suae et hansis suis pertinentibus. " [01:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094491 = 16.158 BTC [+] {2} [11:19]
mircea_popescu soo what's new. [11:32]
mircea_popescu nubbins` maybe just BE nubbins` without a nubbin ? [11:36]
mircea_popescu motherfucker twitter changed profile layout [11:38]
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cazalla jurov: are they online anywhere? [11:49]
cazalla nice timing mircea_popescu, do you have logs prior to 26-04-2013? [11:50]
mircea_popescu logs of what ? [11:50]
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cazalla sorry, #bitcoin-assets [11:51]
mircea_popescu a [11:51]
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mircea_popescu yeah [11:51]
cazalla available online for public consumption? [11:52]
mircea_popescu well no inasmuch as they [11:52]
mircea_popescu 're my logs [11:52]
cazalla fair enough [11:52]
mircea_popescu you'll have to bug kako, and probably volunteer a lot of work [11:52]
mircea_popescu i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy [11:53]
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cazalla perhaps volunteer work is an opportunity to earn some wot [12:07]
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dnivi3 Anyone bought Cryptorush shares? [12:08]
mircea_popescu dnivi3 nobody sane. [12:10]
mircea_popescu cazalla this is a point. [12:11]
dnivi3 Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen. [12:11]
mircea_popescu dividends aren't really the chief consideration in investments. [12:12]
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dnivi3 Sure, but their business does not seem to thrive anyways so I'd rather pull out. What do you consider the chief consideration? [12:13]
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VanCleef i wish there was something decent to invest in [12:14]
mircea_popescu Untermyer: Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property? [12:14]
mircea_popescu Morgan: No, sir. The first thing is character. [12:14]
mircea_popescu Untermyer: Before money or property? [12:14]
mircea_popescu Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it … a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom. [12:14]
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dnivi3 @micea_popescu: OK, what is that supposed to tell me? @VanCleef: there are some decent funds on Havelock, for example Peta Mine. [12:16]
VanCleef isn't petamine just a PMB tho? [12:16]
VanCleef therefore bad? [12:16]
dnivi3 PMB? Not sure what that means, to be honest. Care to explain? [12:17]
VanCleef perpetual mining bond [12:17]
mircea_popescu [12:18]
ozbot The problem with PMBs, ie “Perpetual Mining Bonds” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [12:18]
VanCleef so like each share locks you into a hashrate not a percentage of the companies total hashing power [12:18]
mircea_popescu dnivi3 so give yourself time, lots to learn. [12:18]
dnivi3 Ah, that's true. Hmm, interesting. [12:18]
VanCleef thus being worth less as the network difficulty goes up? [12:18]
dnivi3 Yes, indeed. However, it is not the case though if the mining operation is intending to reinvest (something which PETA intends to do). [12:19]
mircea_popescu how is it not true ? [12:19]
dnivi3 They have a reinvestment plan for the future, to increase their hashrate. 35% of all profit goes to reinvestment for hash power. [12:20]
B007 [12:20]
ozbot SEC-Bitcoin, Shadow Banking, Levitt on N.Y. Probe: Compliance - Businessweek [12:20]
B007 made it into my inbox via google alerts on bitcoin [12:20]
mircea_popescu dnivi3 so ? [12:21]
mircea_popescu i have a bottle of coca cola. 35% of what i drink goes into buying more coca cola [12:21]
mircea_popescu therefore my bottle of coca cola can never be empty. [12:21]
mircea_popescu what is this, logic 101 for people that haven't mastered the arrow in flight "paradox" ? [12:22]
B007 anyway time for bed [12:23]
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dnivi3 I am not quite sure how the arrow in flight paradox relates to this. [12:25]
mircea_popescu the fact that they reinvest some portion of the dividends is completely irrelevant. [12:27]
mircea_popescu but completely. [12:27]
mircea_popescu if they paid out that 35% you could reinvest it yourself. [12:27]
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mircea_popescu and it'd even be better, because you wouldn't be locked into whatever braindamage they come up with [12:28]
mircea_popescu so in this sense, you're just getting 100% dividend, except a 35% portion of it is actually worth less [12:28]
mircea_popescu through being restricted. [12:28]
dnivi3 Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I gotta go! [12:35]
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mircea_popescu if anyone feels mathematically inclined [12:37]
ozbot So here’s a problem for you… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [12:37]
chetty A workbook handed out to seventh grade students in Springfield, Ill., states that all Americans must register their firearms in order to have a Second Amendment right. [12:37]
mircea_popescu derp [12:39]
mircea_popescu you know what springfield is like ? [12:39]
VanCleef In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea. [12:39]
VanCleef Putin the next C.E.O of bitcoin [12:40]
wao-ender yeah, I read it, would be nice. [12:41]
HeySteve Putin tried to get a regional processing centre for credit cards several years back [12:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0061 = 0.1159 BTC [-] {2} [12:42]
samson_ WTF has Crimea got to do with the US ? [12:43]
mircea_popescu [12:43]
VanCleef usa just being sooks [12:43]
VanCleef lol mircea [12:44]
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VanCleef [12:48]
ozbot imgur: the simple image sharer [12:48]
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VanCleef more i think aboutit my god that whatssapp deal was such a bad buy [12:58]
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mircea_popescu at least you're not in facebook's shoes [13:00]
VanCleef i would rather buy wechat for alot cheaper [13:02]
FabianB i don't think tencent would ever sell [13:05]
wao-ender let's use telegram instead of whatsapp [13:06]
VanCleef heh iunintalled whatsapp already [13:07]
mircea_popescu someone actually had it installed ?! [13:09]
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* wao-ender dont [13:11]
chetty [13:11]
VanCleef :P [13:12]
chetty no wonder people are so clueless about finance [13:13]
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MisterE [13:39]
MisterE So I guess if you'e in a fund that invests in a Russian company you could get screwed f that the Russian holdings are sanctioned... [13:39]
MisterE where is the url bot? [13:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34558 @ 0.00094047 = 32.5008 BTC [-] [13:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 9324 @ 0.00310323 = 28.9345 BTC [-] {24} [13:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8272 @ 0.00093849 = 7.7632 BTC [-] [13:46]
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Mats_cd03 Zerohedge is poorly disguised dog shiy [13:49]
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kakobrekla i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy < like a year of bullshit isnt enough [14:03]
mircea_popescu also a point. [14:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1230 @ 0.0031 = 3.813 BTC [-] [14:04]
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mircea_popescu for bingoboingo and whoever else may care : [14:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0031 = 0.775 BTC [-] [14:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 520 @ 0.0031 = 1.612 BTC [-] [14:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00094091 = 17.548 BTC [+] {3} [14:20]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094224 = 8.9513 BTC [+] [14:36]
kakobrekla [14:41]
ozbot Let's talk about BTC.SX and MT.GOX [14:41]
kakobrekla at times like these, ban hurts. [14:41]
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Namworld My antivirus considers Google's DoubleClick cookie as an infected files and keeps deleting it.It classify snooping cookies as viruses. [14:52]
ThickAsThieves surely you are a man with IPs at your disposal [14:52]
Namworld It seems an apt classification. [14:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093849 = 0.9385 BTC [-] [14:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093913 = 0.9391 BTC [+] [14:58]
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kakobrekla i dont think its even ip restricted [15:13]
kakobrekla but i would need to register a sock, thats the issue [15:13]
kakobrekla [15:14]
ozbot We have decided to donate 100btc to those who lost funds from mt gox [15:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07100125 = 0.426 BTC [-] {2} [15:19]
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ThickAsThieves maybe make a sock that isnt a sock, like call yourself Bitcoin Assets [15:25]
ThickAsThieves or hell, kakobrekla2 [15:25]
kakobrekla mebbe, ill see how bad the itch gets [15:26]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61999997 BTC [-] [15:30]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61999998 = 3.72 BTC [+] [15:31]
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jborkl That is very generous of them [15:33]
jborkl :/ [15:33]
the20year how thoughtful [15:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00093913 = 14.8383 BTC [+] {2} [15:37]
Neil .d [15:42]
ozbot 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 469 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.4934% in 2d 19h 13m 57s [15:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093984 = 0.9398 BTC [+] [15:46]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92517 @ 0.000938 = 86.7809 BTC [-] {6} [15:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093452 = 2.3363 BTC [-] [15:56]
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mircea_popescu In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit". [16:27]
mircea_popescu teh us pseudolegal system is such lol by now. [16:28]
chetty [16:31]
artifexd I'm having trouble with If there was any bias in the coin, wouldn't that bias show up as a favoring towards heads in the end results? [16:34]
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artifexd And if there was no bias in the coin, a straight forward flip would be good enough. [16:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094232 = 7.2559 BTC [-] [16:40]
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mircea_popescu artifexd [16:41]
artifexd ohstopityou.jpg [16:42]
mircea_popescu :) [16:42]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6191 BTC [-] [16:43]
artifexd I recoded my test for that change and the results are an even distribution regardless of flip bias. Cool. [16:46]
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artifexd Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out. [16:47]
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mircea_popescu artifexd if the bias is 100% you'll discard all sets. [16:49]
mircea_popescu in computational terms, the algo doesn't crash, it just never finishes. [16:50]
artifexd True. But a generator that never generates can hardly be called a generator. [16:50]
mircea_popescu depends if you're discussing it as an engineer or as a computer scientist. [16:50]
mircea_popescu neumann was the later, and in that context yes it can. [16:50]
mircea_popescu after all, it is generatING. [16:51]
chetty [16:51]
artifexd That strikes me as amusing [16:51]
mircea_popescu well it should, because it is :D [16:51]
mircea_popescu chetty bwahaha [16:51]
chetty they got this wrong, the bitcoin should be the bite [16:51]
mircea_popescu or the wall. [16:52]
artifexd If anyone wants it, here is the code for the Newman fair-izing test: [16:53]
artifexd Change line 9 to vary the bias to your hearts content. [16:54]
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mircea_popescu nice. [16:59]
mircea_popescu but it is neumann you know [16:59]
artifexd That may explain why google failed me [16:59]
mircea_popescu whoa you don't know the greatest mathematician that ever lived ? [17:00]
mircea_popescu defo must read up on him. [17:00]
mircea_popescu ;;google John von Neumann [17:00]
gribble John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Von Neumann architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; John von Neumann - CS Dept. NSF-Supported Education ...: [17:00]
artifexd I did discover him in my googling. I didn't expect you to misspell his name though so I though you were talking about someone else [17:02]
artifexd *thought [17:02]
mircea_popescu i misspelled ?! [17:03]
artifexd "Ok, so did you come up with Newman’s method or not ?" [17:03]
mircea_popescu well HOW EASY do you want me to makle it ;/ [17:03]
artifexd I only expect you to be you. [17:04]
mircea_popescu on my better days. [17:05]
mircea_popescu unrelatedtly, this may be lulzy : [17:05]
nubbins` so pascale's art school was "donated" a bunch of inks from a local screenprint shop [17:06]
nubbins` which they in turn donated to us [17:06]
nubbins` about a third of them were usable, the rest (10-15 gallons) aren't fit for use [17:06]
nubbins` brought em out to the dump today, and they wouldn't take them because it's commercial waste [17:06]
mircea_popescu what was the problem with them ? [17:07]
nubbins` so now we have 15 gallons of "donated" ink that's gonna cost us $2-300 to dispose of [17:07]
nubbins` really old, starting to separate [17:07]
mircea_popescu you can probably reemusify them if you have an old washing machine [17:07]
nubbins` they're plastisol inks, PVC particles in emulsion [17:07]
mircea_popescu so ? [17:07]
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nubbins` so uh [17:08]
nubbins` nothing i guess [17:08]
mircea_popescu do you have an old washing machine / [17:08]
nubbins` either way, old inks break down [17:08]
nubbins` and no, we don't [17:08]
mircea_popescu wel lthen you're stuck. [17:08]
nubbins` you can take a quart of old ink and mix it with a power drill for an hour and it's still shit [17:08]
nubbins` stuck indeed [17:08]
mircea_popescu not that way, that doesn't work. [17:08]
nubbins` that's what we get for taking donations without inspecting em first [17:08]
nubbins` lesson learned [17:09]
mircea_popescu you put it in the tumbler, stuff the tumbler with rags or packing peanuts or w/e to keep the cans flush to the side, then hook it to dry for a while. [17:09]
mircea_popescu it'll sort them out. [17:09]
nubbins` you're a complicated man [17:10]
mircea_popescu what did i do now [17:10]
nubbins` impressed me with your knowledge of random things [17:10]
nubbins` :o [17:10]
mircea_popescu lol [17:10]
nubbins` either way, fuck these inks [17:11]
mircea_popescu well that also works. [17:11]
nubbins` unfortunately i can't even sneak em into the trash [17:11]
nubbins` well. not with a clear conscience [17:11]
mircea_popescu you can just pour them into the toilet, one ounce a day [17:11]
mircea_popescu take you a month or so [17:11]
nubbins` noooo [17:11]
nubbins` the seabirds [17:11]
mircea_popescu so you time it out [17:11]
mircea_popescu you know, like spacing it out but over time. [17:11]
nubbins` heh [17:12]
nubbins` well, i've gotta get to printing [17:12]
nubbins` try to turn this shit day around [17:12]
mircea_popescu noooo [17:12]
mircea_popescu the seabirds! [17:12]
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nubbins` fun fact, we dumped raw sewage into the atlantic until 2 years ago [17:13]
mircea_popescu << that's the plasticiser, btw [17:15]
ozbot Science & Environmental Health Network - Ecological Medicine: Essays [17:15]
mircea_popescu probably some phtalate ester or other [17:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15246 @ 0.00094232 = 14.3666 BTC [-] [17:16]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00305112 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {3} [17:17]
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mircea_popescu < check it out, jimothy's being upstaged. [17:21]
ozbot Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. All say aye.., say AYE, "AYE!" [17:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.003075 = 0.1015 BTC [+] [17:28]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0710566 = 1.0658 BTC [+] {4} [17:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07100124 = 1.42 BTC [-] {2} [17:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28304 @ 0.00094257 = 26.6785 BTC [+] {2} [17:47]
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only they will soon come up with bitcoin: [17:54]
mircea_popescu for some values of soon [17:55]
artifexd [17:55]
ozbot Least Authority [17:55]
artifexd relevant quote "the Bitcoin network is performing enough computation to generate SHA-1 collisions every 131 minutes!" [17:55]
mircea_popescu luckily the uk pound isn't worth the hassle. [17:56]
only 45m+ 1 pound coin fakes in circulation [17:57]
mircea_popescu that's almost enough to start a fake bitcoin mining farm [17:58]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.42564200 BTC to 4`100 shares, 59162 satoshi per share [17:59]
mircea_popescu [17:59]
mircea_popescu this guy should be covering bitcoin corps. [17:59]
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ThickAsThieves Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. So let's discuss! [18:01]
only lol [18:01]
mircea_popescu guy's worried that all his shady work promoting various scams may land him in hot water. [18:01]
mircea_popescu which... who knows, always a possibility. [18:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share [18:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 118000 @ 0.0109775 = 1295.345 BTC [-] [18:03]
mircea_popescu $depth x.idiff.jun [18:03]
mpexbot mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: [] [18:03]
mpexbot mircea_popescu: Asks: ['127000 @ 0.0109775'] [18:03]
mircea_popescu look at that, we're trading. [18:04]
assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 5000 @ 0.0109775 = 54.8875 BTC [-] [18:04]
ThickAsThieves wow [18:04]
assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 100132 @ 0.0109775 = 1099.199 BTC [-] {2} [18:05]
mircea_popescu hm [18:05]
mircea_popescu .d [18:05]
ozbot 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 454 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.2920% in 2d 17h 27m 5s [18:05]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.15**7 [18:05]
gribble 11.305084492 [18:05]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.125**7 [18:06]
gribble 9.69296371937 [18:06]
assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 26868 @ 0.0109775 = 294.9435 BTC [-] {2} [18:06]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.145**7 [18:06]
gribble 10.9654721643 [18:06]
mircea_popescu so 14.5% till june [18:06]
mircea_popescu $vwap x.idiff.jun [18:08]
mpexbot mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN 1 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 7 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 30 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 [18:08]
assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 25393 @ 0.0109775 = 278.7517 BTC [-] [18:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00326812 = 0.4902 BTC [+] {6} [18:09]
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mircea_popescu suddenly that 16% bet appears a lot more interesting. [18:11]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.18**6 [18:11]
gribble 11.4731051504 [18:11]
asciilifeform re: hash algos: one could argue that any hash function whose defeat (preimage, etc.) wouldn't sink something major (e.g. btc) isn't worth using. [18:11]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 4.25 * 1.16**6 [18:11]
gribble 10.354684372 [18:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform these days, yes. [18:12]
asciilifeform naturally this only applies to cryptographic hashes, rather than checksums [18:12]
mircea_popescu ten-twenty years ago there was nothing really major that depended on them so. [18:12]
asciilifeform right. but we're in today. [18:12]
mircea_popescu we are. [18:12]
mircea_popescu most experts are over 50 and don't hang out in the right places, so [18:13]
mircea_popescu one can prolly make a living for years just out of that observation. [18:13]
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asciilifeform i still think it possible that there are competent people, but 'dark matter' because why should they talk. [18:14]
mircea_popescu because it's fun, and human. [18:14]
asciilifeform no argument [18:14]
artifexd For some people, talking is not fun. Or maybe it is, but writing code is orders of magnitude more fun than writing english. [18:16]
mircea_popescu possibly because they never bothered to learn english properly. [18:17]
artifexd It isn't about the medium. It's about the audience. [18:17]
mircea_popescu i never heard of a programmer that judged the languages on the basis of the machines involved. [18:18]
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kakobrekla alert('whats wrong with the audience here?'); [18:18]
mircea_popescu "javascript is really cool, it works on every shitty laptop out there" [18:18]
mircea_popescu as opposed to "lisp is crap, they only run it on shit" [18:18]
artifexd The audience of english is other humans, generally. The audience of code is the machine. [18:18]
mircea_popescu the audience is abstracted in either case. [18:19]
assbot hey! [18:19]
mircea_popescu that's trhe very point of having a language : abstracting the audience. [18:19]
mircea_popescu otherwise you'd just carry a soldering iron everywhere. [18:19]
Ghaleon solid point [18:20]
mircea_popescu and i can't even say it in c++ [18:21]
mircea_popescu because.... wait for it... c++ IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH :D [18:21]
Ghaleon as programmers we must rise up now and be better bridges between humans and machines, money is the lifeblood of human energy, thus we must improve as ambassardors [18:21]
artifexd Success in communicating via code is much easier to measure than in english. "Did it compile?" vs "Did he/she understand me?" [18:21]
mircea_popescu artifexd if you're limiting yourself to successes you can measure you're more likely to become obese than get laid. [18:21]
Ghaleon hence the typical irc, leet jerk attitude is bout to be extinct [18:21]
asciilifeform 'Did it compile?' << i should hope that you are joking re: this being a standard of success in your work [18:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.07148303 = 2.1445 BTC [+] {8} [18:22]
kakobrekla but 'did it compile' check is equal to 'did i make any typos' not 'is the code fucking shit' [18:22]
mircea_popescu poor artifexd ended up in a shitspot [18:22]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla stop fuding and slandering bitcointalk CEOs. [18:22]
asciilifeform see also herr dijkstra's aphorism re: bugs [18:23]
kakobrekla what did i do nao [18:23]
mircea_popescu the time to be kakobrekla'd is never! say aye! [18:23]
artifexd Standard of success? No. Measurement? Sure. "Yes compile" is further along than "No compile" [18:23]
mircea_popescu Ghaleon as you approach mastery you'll notice the leet asshole is an epic bridge builder type. [18:23]
Ghaleon mp, yes, the challenge is finding that person who can build the epic bridges and present the right face... without going insane for long enough [18:24]
Ghaleon this community is doing an awesomejob [18:24]
Ghaleon your letter to sec was an example of that [18:24]
Ghaleon respectable, legally sound, defiant.. yet friendly [18:25]
mircea_popescu but im the elitist asshole to end all elitist assholes. [18:25]
Ghaleon people can look up to that [18:25]
Ghaleon join the club brah [18:25]
mircea_popescu lol [18:25]
mircea_popescu i suppose "leet jerk" 8======D "elitist asshole" [18:25]
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mircea_popescu and by that penis i have represented a proper equality. [18:26]
Ghaleon lolz [18:26]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 48 @ 0.62805964 = 30.1469 BTC [+] {11} [18:26]
asciilifeform |===D - sapper's shovel? [18:26]
Ghaleon we had a great article about bit coin archetypes before [18:27]
Ghaleon bit coins greatest value is that it is getting people to ask "what is money really" ? [18:27]
Ghaleon henry Ford's vision is coming to pass [18:27]
Ghaleon as things move forward we will be able to ask "how do people use money really?" [18:27]
Ghaleon and get an answer thanks to the blockchain [18:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.63 = 10.08 BTC [+] [18:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform in loving reference to that [18:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00598292 = 0.3829 BTC [-] {5} [18:29]
Ghaleon i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward [18:29]
mircea_popescu "Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created “a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS.” A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A [18:30]
mircea_popescu screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is." [18:30]
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mircea_popescu " He also “generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false.” Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer." [18:31]
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mircea_popescu Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on “TLG TV,” which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims “posing with stacks of money on his lap.” [18:31]
mircea_popescu apparently they didn't have lambos in fiat yet. [18:31]
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mircea_popescu (for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's) [18:32]
asciilifeform no shortage of trambos though. [18:32]
asciilifeform (trabambos?) [18:32]
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mircea_popescu tra' bimbos! [18:33]
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benkay good morning! [18:56]
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mircea_popescu [18:59]
ozbot How Deep Learning Analytics Mimic the Mind [18:59]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:59]
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mircea_popescu Arden Elizabeth @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Improvement, Part I: Grit Is More Important Than Talent (link) [19:05]
mircea_popescu Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu RT @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Satisfaction, Part I: Girth Is More Important Than ta Length (link) [19:05]
mircea_popescu i wonder if she takes it well. [19:06]
benkay re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia? [19:08]
chetty benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up [19:13]
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asciilifeform 'for many years, most artificial neural network research was focused on networks with a single layer of processing.' wat. !111?111! [19:14]
asciilifeform [19:15]
asciilifeform minksy & papert showed that single-layer NN cannot even learn 'XOR'. this touched off the first 'ai winter.' [19:16]
asciilifeform i thought everyone knew this. [19:16]
ThickAsThieves [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00094278 = 5.421 BTC [+] [19:16]
ThickAsThieves [19:16]
asciilifeform (it's a freshman homework-level proof incidentally) [19:18]
ThickAsThieves [19:18]
ozbot Untitled 1 [19:18]
asciilifeform incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni [19:19]
asciilifeform we had a homework of evolving (genetic algo) - rather than, as usually done, 'training' a small NN [19:19]
asciilifeform to solve very simple arithmetic problems [19:19]
asciilifeform when using '/dev/random' rng (of the time) the bugger took several hours to converge [19:20]
asciilifeform but when using a turd downloaded from ? (was it lavarand? or john walker's geiger? wish i remembered) it took minutes. [19:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32984 @ 0.0009431 = 31.1072 BTC [+] {3} [19:21]
asciilifeform if you don't adequately 'massage' the state space, you get miserable evolution. [19:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 522 @ 0.00307122 = 1.6032 BTC [-] {7} [19:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00305318 = 3.0532 BTC [-] {9} [19:25]
bounce so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG? [19:25]
asciilifeform nothing mystical about it. poor rng, for the application described above, is like watered gasoline [19:26]
asciilifeform objectively poor performance. [19:26]
asciilifeform note that this anecdote had nothing to do with cryptography. [19:26]
asciilifeform (the usual place where people concern themselves with rng quality) [19:26]
asciilifeform (the other being - gambling) [19:26]
asciilifeform a shoddy rng ends up 'dwelling' in some portions of the state space [19:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0589876 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2} [19:29]
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asciilifeform re: NNs: their present-day niche obscurity is well-deserved. try using it for any application with regular novel inputs, and notice how it 'forgets.' [19:31]
decimation asciilifeform you mentioned in the past that you did not care for mechanical hard drives. Does this mean you put a flash drive in your Libretto? [19:31]
asciilifeform (recognition problems with fixed sets, like OCR, work great) [19:32]
asciilifeform decimation: as a matter of fact, i did. [19:32]
decimation how did you adapt to the ancient ide connectors? [19:32]
asciilifeform decimation: you can get PATA SSD drives. [19:33]
decimation for a premium, as I recall :) [19:33]
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decimation I like your idea of underprovisioning the drive to leave room for bad flash cells [19:34]
asciilifeform decimation: i used a 'Transcend' TS64GPSD330. <$100 at the time. [19:34]
bounce or a pata<->cf converter [19:34]
decimation I guess capacity isn't an issue here really [19:34]
asciilifeform no room for converter [19:34]
decimation right [19:35]
asciilifeform if you have a libretto, the drive has to fit. exactly. [19:35]
decimation as is the case with most laptops [19:35]
asciilifeform libretto has the least slack space in the bay of any machine of that period that i've owned. [19:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24271 @ 0.00094235 = 22.8718 BTC [-] {4} [19:35]
asciilifeform back in the day, i found that not one of three different pata<->cf cards would fit. [19:36]
decimation that's surprising [19:36]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+] [19:36]
decimation I wish there were an ssd available that let you examine its innards [19:36]
asciilifeform most of them have cheap through-hole solder jobs and protrude almost 1mm [19:36]
asciilifeform decimation: most of them disassemble just fine [19:37]
decimation no, I mean the firmware [19:37]
asciilifeform ah [19:37]
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asciilifeform i dumped 'intel' and 'samsung's ssd fw. ida eats it up like a champ. [19:37]
decimation but now that you mention it, they would be a good place to find cheap flash chips [19:37]
decimation heh [19:38]
asciilifeform a little tricky to make sense of what goes on inside, given undocumented regs a-plenty [19:38]
decimation what cpu does it use? 8051? [19:38]
asciilifeform one was an 'arm' variant, the other, a big-endian mips with a couple of custom cores, if i recall [19:38]
BCB mircea_popescu, did Gilliams list on mpex [19:38]
asciilifeform forget which was which [19:38]
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decimation bunnie has a whole post on hacking SD cards [19:39]
decimation [19:39]
ozbot On Hacking MicroSD Cards « bunnie's blog [19:39]
asciilifeform there was also a fellow who booted linux kernel on the controllers of dead hdds recently [19:39]
decimation lol [19:39]
asciilifeform i experimented with this myself a few yrs ago, but life got in the way [19:39]
decimation the microcontroller on board is basically free [19:39]
asciilifeform ('the bad dancer is hindered by his arse.' kudos to the kid) [19:40]
decimation I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid [19:42]
decimation thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware [19:42]
asciilifeform this wouldn't even be such a problem if it actually worked [19:42]
mircea_popescu BCB no ? [19:42]
asciilifeform but try getting a sharp 100kHz wave, for instance, out of a 'micro' running java [19:42]
benkay "Those concerned about e-waste may (or may not) be pleased to know that it’s also common for vendors to use recycled flash chips salvaged from discarded parts." [19:43]
asciilifeform (by toggling pins) [19:43]
asciilifeform 'eat recycled food. it's good for the environment, and ok for you!' [19:43]
decimation heh exactly [19:43]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform the guys are retards of prime order, which is why i quoted it. [19:43]
decimation Or get weeks of battery life out of a lithium cell [19:43]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves is that dope ? [19:44]
asciilifeform re: the dope: simply owning the 'pill press' required to stamp the pictured items is quasi-illegal in usa [19:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+] [19:45]
asciilifeform unless you're a 'registered' whatever [19:45]
mircea_popescu bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed [19:46]
asciilifeform (ianal, but if i recall, it's not actually illegal, but was ruled 'probable cause' for police search) [19:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft. [19:46]
asciilifeform this is a well-known fact. the 'ai winters' were merely the flip sides of 'ai summers', bacchanalia of graft of every variety [19:47]
decimation of course, NN do work as ascii pointed out [19:48]
asciilifeform see, for instance, this: [19:48]
asciilifeform [19:48]
decimation just not against problems of the "I don't know what I want" variety [19:48]
ozbot Thinking Machines - The Daily WTF [19:48]
asciilifeform 'Yes, our office was magnificent and yes, a gourmet chef and her entourage came in every day to cook our lunch. The meals were awesome.' [19:48]
asciilifeform [19:49]
ozbot The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines, Bankruptcy Article | [19:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform freer people would make home candy in the pattern and distribute it to neighbourhood kids. [19:49]
asciilifeform re: thinking machines, see mp's 'tin woman' essay. [19:49]
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mircea_popescu decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once. [19:49]
mircea_popescu sure they work. not for everything all the time. [19:50]
asciilifeform this particular broom actually fires small-caliber quite well. in every OCR app, for example. [19:50]
bounce "hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death. [19:50]
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mircea_popescu bounce i suspect the statements are homologuous. [19:50]
bounce could be [19:50]
decimation as for e-waste: [19:50]
decimation " According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy." [19:51]
decimation Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers [19:51]
asciilifeform decimation: did you see the recent incident with Fluke Corp. ? [19:51]
mircea_popescu heh [19:51]
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decimation or, to be more precise, hiring and paying competent inspectors is a bridge too far for USG [19:51]
decimation no I didn't, what happened? [19:51]
asciilifeform [19:52]
ozbot Fluke, we love you but you're killing us. - News - SparkFun Electronics [19:52]
decimation did you ever wonder how many TSA agents could identify diddled electronics with their xray machines? [19:52]
asciilifeform tldr - fluke corp. has a trademark on... yellow voltmeters. chinese shipment of yellow voltmeters held up at customs, burned. [19:52]
asciilifeform the next day, they 'apologized' by... supplying a crate of free fluke meters to the victim [19:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00094421 = 23.5108 BTC [+] {3} [19:53]
asciilifeform and saying 'we're not the least bit sorry and shall do it again always' [19:54]
decimation so, in the land of the free, the USG has granted a monopoly on yellow DMM's and then began enforcing the monopoly using taxpayer funds. [19:54]
mircea_popescu gotta support the team. [19:54]
asciilifeform there is really no qualitative difference between this and every other 'ip' enforcement action. [19:54]
decimation Except, that's exactly what happened with the boston tea party [19:54]
mircea_popescu [19:55]
ozbot Puddy Paints His Face [Seinfeld] - YouTube [19:55]
asciilifeform now, for those who do not know, fluke is one of those remaining outfits that... builds things in usa [19:55]
asciilifeform traditionally, if you wanted an 'adult' measurement instrument (multimeter, oscilloscope, etc) you got a fluke or hp (now 'agilent') [19:55]
asciilifeform or suffered with chinese crap [19:55]
asciilifeform but now, the chinese instruments are quite usable [19:56]
asciilifeform and you can even get calibration certificates for them, for some extra cost [19:56]
decimation yeah I have noticed a trend here with a variety of electronic products [19:56]
asciilifeform fluke, naturally, 'will not go quietly into the good night' [19:56]
decimation yeah, but making lame patents isn't going to win in the end [19:57]
asciilifeform i doubt that anyone at fluke likes to think about 'the end' [19:57]
asciilifeform this incident showed all the symptoms of 'bite of the cornered beast.' [19:57]
mircea_popescu decimation why not ? [19:57]
decimation well, in this specific case, I think it will be impossible to create a ring of patents that will stop the mongol hordes [19:58]
asciilifeform note that this wasn't even a patent case [19:59]
decimation It's always going to be more expensive to pay lawyers than to develop a patent-evading version of a device [19:59]
asciilifeform trademark. on yellow plastic. [19:59]
decimation that makes it even more lame [19:59]
mircea_popescu you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance ? [20:00]
mircea_popescu stuffing hands in ears and yelling works "indefinitely". [20:00]
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decimation well, in the specific case of high-end test equipment, most buyers are not going to be easily swayed by bs [20:00]
decimation if they can halve their costs, anyway [20:00]
mircea_popescu but there's going to be a corner somehwere the retarded kids gather [20:00]
decimation indeed [20:01]
mircea_popescu and talk among each other about how "putin is living in a different world" [20:01]
asciilifeform the other notable thing was that this was an ultra-low-end product [20:01]
decimation they are going to get stem degrees [20:01]
mircea_popescu if you ask its citizenry, the us south still lives. [20:01]
decimation [20:01]
ozbot The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage - Michael S. Teitelbaum - The Atlantic [20:01]
bounce loved $article about shenzen though. made me wish for actual EE skill. [20:01]
decimation Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013. [20:01]
mircea_popescu lol [20:01]
decimation what do you say about a "superpower" that can barely employ 300,000 EE's [20:02]
mircea_popescu it can employ an infinity of them [20:02]
mircea_popescu but it can't turn 100mn ghetto kids into more than 300k passible ee's [20:02]
mircea_popescu and about 50mn paralegals of all types. [20:02]
asciilifeform there is a 'gresham's law' / 'lemon car effect' at work with the EEs [20:02]
decimation that's true [20:02]
decimation asian countries will subsidize them to the hilt [20:03]
mircea_popescu afaik actualy us-citizen ee's vs total ee's have a worse salary problem than women/men in non-government, actually productive jobs do. [20:03]
decimation the talent moves there [20:03]
asciilifeform some months ago, i spoke with an EE prof (consultation) at a major american uni [20:03]
asciilifeform his several dozen grad students - not one could write a simple program for an embedded cpu. [20:04]
mircea_popescu that's not even the worst part. [20:04]
decimation that's sad [20:04]
mircea_popescu he couldn'rt force them to work webcams naked for a month is the worst part. [20:04]
asciilifeform and these people get Ph.D and 'graduate' [20:04]
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asciilifeform 9 out of 10 india/china [20:04]
mircea_popescu ;;google mit battery [20:04]
gribble Batteries - MIT News Office: ; Liquid Metal Batteries - Group Sadoway: ; Better batteries through biology? - MIT News Office: [20:04]
asciilifeform yes, and this. [20:04]
mircea_popescu obligatory link to that being, of course, [20:05]
decimation my experience as us undergrad EE about 10 years ago [20:05]
asciilifeform but it had the angle of pillorying american undergrads at posh unis [20:05]
mircea_popescu [20:05]
ozbot MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube [20:05]
decimation 1/3 chinese, 1/3 indian, 1/3 white males [20:05]
mircea_popescu "we are the premier engineer and science institution in teh werld" [20:05]
decimation grad department (and profs) 80% chinese/indian [20:05]
mircea_popescu guy looks like a fucking shaving cream model. [20:05]
asciilifeform there's two separate diseases at work [20:05]
mircea_popescu at least, yeah/ [20:06]
asciilifeform the american kids can't xxxx because, well, american schooling, 'diversity', etc. the eastern kids, they, in principle, could [20:06]
asciilifeform but won't. because 'i can lift it off the net' [20:06]
mircea_popescu im not sure that's a bad thing [20:06]
asciilifeform it is in practice almost always a bad thing [20:07]
mircea_popescu only absent superivision. [20:07]
asciilifeform not for 'religious' reasons, but practical ones [20:07]
decimation wrt embedded stuff "lifting off the net" never works well [20:07]
benkay all americans are lacking supervision, though. [20:07]
asciilifeform with the trend for centralization (everybody but a few weirdos runs 'arm' chips, compiles c/cpp) it 'works' [20:07]
asciilifeform for a while, at least. [20:08]
mircea_popescu see, if the context is, "be able to power bulb with battery on request or spend the next month poledancing in mumbai" [20:08]
mircea_popescu it no longer matters what the kid is lifting off net. [20:08]
decimation well, as long as the asians keep shipping those parts [20:08]
mircea_popescu decimation indefinitely extensible. "be able to also design the battery" [20:09]
decimation to be an American today is to put your head deep in the lion's mouth, on the understanding that he won't bite [20:09]
mircea_popescu wrong lion, wrong mouth tho [20:09]
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decimation yeah you make a good point [20:09]
decimation at some point the bills will come due. It's hard to see how the US is going to add much value to anything with only 300k EEs [20:10]
mircea_popescu you know the refuge of dying empires [20:10]
mircea_popescu they're doing a lot of scholastics. [20:10]
asciilifeform i'm certainly not the first to describe this, but u.s. education system 'bit-shifted'. i.e. 'college is the new high school', and thereby it follows that 'phd is the new college' [20:10]
mircea_popescu "we are adding the TRUE value to everything through teh social media" [20:10]
asciilifeform so in that light, phd students who crib buggy code from stackoverflow and pass it off as a thesis are unsurprising. [20:10]
benkay i wish i'd had an education in the classic sense. [20:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform vaugely reminiscent of all the chinese administrative reorganisations [20:11]
benkay old books, hard problems, canings, etc. [20:11]
mircea_popescu basically the chinese ran all the middle ages on a sort of govt-sponsored us university program [20:11]
bounce nothing for it but give yourself one, even if N years late. [20:11]
mircea_popescu i'm with the b's. both of em. [20:12]
asciilifeform more or less this. [20:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07270143 = 1.0905 BTC [+] {3} [20:12]
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asciilifeform if you never learned the skill of inflicting pain on yourself, it might be hard to start though [20:12]
asciilifeform perhaps there was a reason for the yoga bed of nails. [20:12]
mircea_popescu get a mistress. [20:13]
decimation even "biotech" is just a bunch of bs [20:13]
decimation from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. " [20:13]
mircea_popescu i dun believe much in this masturbatory pain thing [20:13]
asciilifeform ;;google phillip greenspun women computing [20:14]
gribble Women in Computing - Philip Greenspun: ; Women in Science - Philip Greenspun: ; Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Women and computer programmers: [20:14]
asciilifeform 2nd link is it. [20:14]
asciilifeform (this is not really about women, but about american academia) [20:14]
decimation yeah that's a good article [20:14]
mircea_popescu i recall that articxle. [20:14]
asciilifeform 'Does this make sense as a career for anyone? Absolutely! Just get out your atlas.' [20:14]
mircea_popescu i hate greenspun for having deleted his original discussion of his adventures with "expert vcs" [20:15]
mircea_popescu greylock and co [20:15]
benkay bounce: that's what i'm working on. -assets has been an intellectual godsend. [20:15]
benkay in other news, my user group got kicked from our corporate sponsor's shop next month for a "women in tech event" [20:15]
mircea_popescu benkay there's one jus' for you then :D [20:16]
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benkay "great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally. [20:16]
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asciilifeform 'The first round of layoffs had started. Salaries were frozen. Requests for new laptop computers were being denied. Meanwhile, Handler had an enormous marble archway installed in the atrium of the Carter Ink Building. When a national supercomputer conference was held in Seattle, she decided to stay in San Francisco and commute to Seattle from the swank Stanford Court Hotel. She commissioned a $40,000 logo desig [20:17]
asciilifeform n for a CM-5 sweatshirt and then rejected it. While the company was sinking, she focused her attention on putting out a cookbook with recipes from the company's now-infamous cafeteria. Increasingly paranoid, she had a video camera aimed at her personal parking spot and, by some accounts, made people take meetings with her in her parked car. She hired a bodyguard, telling her colleagues that she had received dea [20:17]
asciilifeform th threats. Some members of Thinking Machines' board suddenly seemed to realize that the person who had been running the company all those years had no business skills. The board discussed dumping Handler, but she managed to get her biggest enemies there kicked off.' [20:17]
asciilifeform (from the 'thinking machines' obituary) [20:17]
the20year1 nice [20:17]
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benkay mircea_popescu: you're not paying me to spend any time at that domain i don't think [20:18]
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mircea_popescu im sure i don't. [20:18]
benkay so let 'em rot. [20:19]
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asciilifeform benkay: re: 'w. in comp.' - the maggots on the corpse, are not the murder weapon. [20:19]
mircea_popescu ^ [20:19]
mircea_popescu aptly put. [20:19]
decimation at least Mr. Cray had the good sense to die in a car accident [20:19]
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asciilifeform for instance: [20:20]
asciilifeform the uni where i studied 'comp sci' has abolished many of the hardest items in the syllabus (or made them optional) [20:20]
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asciilifeform i visited recently, to hear a talk, and noticed more girls in one classroom than there ever were in the whole bldg. [20:20]
mircea_popescu i had a friend. he was a touch paranoid, so he ended up carrying a bodyguard with him everywhere, in spite of living in a controlled town [20:21]
asciilifeform but i don't blame them for the decline [20:21]
mircea_popescu (1994-2004 a 300k pop town had exactly 0 murders) [20:21]
mircea_popescu eventually he got an electyed position, which gave him a driver. [20:21]
asciilifeform 'controlled' as in, say, Chelyabinsk-40 ? [20:21]
mircea_popescu he hated being driven around, so his car arrangement consisted of him driving two people about, who had nothing to do. [20:22]
mircea_popescu eventually he died, in a car crash, rushing home tired etc. [20:22]
mircea_popescu i wanted the obituary to read "at least he had his bodyguard with him" but people thought it's too soon. [20:22]
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asciilifeform people love stories like this ('mighty hero dies of paper cut') [20:23]
asciilifeform e.g. alexander [20:23]
decimation yeah perhaps it is still too early for my dark Seymour Cray joke. He was a giant amoung elves [20:24]
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mircea_popescu anyway, check out benkay ascetically depriving himself of internet lulz. [20:25]
decimation ?Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system.? [20:25]
ozbot Seymour Cray Biography [20:25]
mircea_popescu the path to pain starts with but a single step! [20:25]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Always interesting to see your stats [20:27]
benkay internet lulz are cheap, mircea_popescu. [20:28]
benkay and those aren't even terribly lulzy! [20:28]
benkay pantagruel and gargantua is more entertaining than [20:28]
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benkay Wooster and Jeeves being far more entertaining on basically every metric. [20:29]
benkay written by professionals, acted by professionals... [20:29]
mircea_popescu ineed. [20:31]
bounce I say. In the spirit of expensive lulz, wish I had the spare change to buy up cray and move their headquarters to 4 2nd inf loop [20:31]
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asciilifeform cray was a titan [20:36]
asciilifeform invented (among a hundred other things) 'pipelining' [20:36]
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the20year1 without him we wouldn't have the last starfighter [20:38]
asciilifeform as someone who personally had occasion to deal with problems that are not amenable to '1024 chickens,' i miss cray [20:38]
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asciilifeform who doesn't know the old, unofficial and very alliterative slogan of the (traditional) nsa - 'acres of crays' [20:44]
asciilifeform some of the (officially released, not leaked) papers of the latter reveal that crap corp. was 'bailed out' as a 'national seekoority' matter [20:45]
asciilifeform *cray corp [20:45]
asciilifeform damn [20:45]
asciilifeform sad thing is, they sell 'chickens' now. [20:46]
asciilifeform like everybody else. [20:46]
asciilifeform (x86-64) [20:48]
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asciilifeform perhaps if cray were alive, you could buy 'fpga' the size of a billboard... [20:49]
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mircea_popescu im bashing the crap corp [20:50]
asciilifeform lol [20:50]
asciilifeform fingers have will of their own. [20:50]
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ThickAsThieves ThickAsThieves is that dope ? /// is what what now? [20:57]
mircea_popescu some round small shits in a pic you linked [20:58]
ThickAsThieves oh, I assume so [20:58]
ThickAsThieves who knows, kids these days [20:58]
mircea_popescu racist. [20:59]
ThickAsThieves I;m writing my first blog [20:59]
the20year1 yay [20:59]
ThickAsThieves having trouble keeping it short [20:59]
ThickAsThieves oh well [20:59]
mircea_popescu [21:00]
ozbot Markopolos Letter to the SEC about Madoff | Doug Cornelius - JDSupra [21:00]
mircea_popescu if anyones curious to read fiat mpoe-pr cca 2005 [21:00]
mircea_popescu (of course, the guy was ignored. by the sec and everyone else on the fiat-forums) [21:00]
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ThickAsThieves i started this writing thinking i wouldnt be a hipster and use footnotes [21:01]
ThickAsThieves i was wrong [21:01]
mircea_popescu there's a reason footnotes survived three empires. [21:02]
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mircea_popescu "Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri [21:12]
mircea_popescu pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day [21:12]
mircea_popescu s I get a good day). [21:12]
mircea_popescu Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine, the next my face aches, tinnitus (motor in my ear), then suddenly my abdomen, then feet, then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling that my stomach wants to exit my body, etc.." [21:12]
mircea_popescu why is it that bitcoin attracts all the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere [21:12]
mircea_popescu what are we supposed to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?! [21:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6334999 BTC [-] [21:13]
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jurov mircea_popescu: if they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here, too [21:24]
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jurov what i heard ibm job is much cozier than getting worried for several months if that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday [21:24]
mircea_popescu but in the sense of accident "i'd have been to busy to hear of bitcoin" or in the sense of stupidity ? [21:24]
jurov not stupidity, just choosing easier path [21:25]
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mircea_popescu how shall i put this in better terms. [21:25]
jurov but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll try freelancing [21:25]
mircea_popescu well but wait. [21:26]
mircea_popescu here's the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes to new york. there's no jobs there, so he goes to oregon and makes himself a cabin. [21:26]
mircea_popescu that's type one. [21:26]
mircea_popescu suppose there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all the beat cops know him so he goes to oregon [21:27]
mircea_popescu and he loiters there for a while, not as disturbed. [21:27]
mircea_popescu that's type two. [21:27]
mircea_popescu now you telling me there's no difference you see here ? [21:27]
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jurov i'm just telling you why i think non-cruft fails to be attracted to bitcoin [21:28]
mircea_popescu greenspun's 4th, linked earlier hehe [21:28]
mircea_popescu "This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs." [21:28]
jurov cannot say anything about the cruft group [21:28]
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jurov i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense they can get easily over-average salary) trapped in conspirational mindset [21:40]
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jurov to them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose [21:40]
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mircea_popescu gotta pierce that veil. [21:42]
mircea_popescu i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device. [21:42]
mircea_popescu not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them. [21:42]
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mircea_popescu Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori [21:45]
mircea_popescu ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster. [21:45]
mircea_popescu epic. [21:45]
benkay mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running their businesses, tending to their mistresses etc? [21:49]
Dimsler lol [21:49]
decimation well, academia has been transformed into bureaucratic employment [21:49]
Dimsler bitcoin = pyramid scheme [21:49]
Dimsler at this point [21:49]
mircea_popescu you'd have to be an idiot to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so that you tend to them. [21:50]
kakobrekla no, its a triangle of opportunity [21:50]
mircea_popescu they should tend to you. [21:50]
benkay wait how does the business tend to you? [21:50]
decimation what's the difference between the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a tenure check? [21:50]
mircea_popescu for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion to your actual effort [21:50]
benkay mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but the business? does it not take ongoing tweaking and leadership? [21:50]
mircea_popescu if you want bread, and i want bread, and you spend an hour and make a loaf [21:51]
mircea_popescu and i spend an hour and make forty-nine and a half loaves [21:51]
mircea_popescu i'd say my business tended to me worth 48 loaves and change. [21:51]
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benkay ah. [21:52]
mircea_popescu decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a time before that. [21:53]
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decimation certainly those who desire attention would be willing to pay to work as a teacher, actor, etc [21:54]
mircea_popescu now, obviously, training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative [21:54]
mircea_popescu but provided you're any good the end result is so far out of proportion to the original that your net negative becomes a rounding error. [21:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00094618 = 23.3233 BTC [+] [21:57]
mircea_popescu anyway, for balance, [21:58]
benkay ah sorry net negative? even after the time and energy pumped into the new girl or venture? [21:59]
benkay strikes me that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting tendered. [22:00]
mircea_popescu reread eh. [22:01]
decimation ?SAP is the best thing that ever happened to [22:01]
decimation computer people. It appeals to businesses that are too stupid to [22:01]
decimation understand and model their own processes but too rich to simply [22:01]
decimation continue relying on secretaries and file cabinets,? [22:01]
decimation lol [22:01]
decimation and why are they "too rich" to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life [22:02]
mircea_popescu you clearly haven't been in business in the old days. [22:04]
mircea_popescu the one affront an old lion could never forget, let alone forgive, would be hiring his secretary away. [22:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 174 @ 0.00591526 = 1.0293 BTC [-] {13} [22:05]
mircea_popescu the reason is that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating those filing cabinets is worth ? [22:05]
mircea_popescu to this day the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where the binder goes. [22:05]
mircea_popescu not she who can take out the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in. [22:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 21 @ 0.05897618 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {5} [22:07]
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mircea_popescu anyway, let's do the world a favor here [22:07]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell bugpowder [22:07]
gribble The operation succeeded. [22:07]
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peterl .bait [22:11]
ozbot [22:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.631 = 1.262 BTC [-] {2} [22:12]
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ninjashogun hi [22:13]
ninjashogun hi, mircea_popescu [22:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07589957 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2} [22:13]
ninjashogun!*@* added to ignore list. [22:13]
decimation yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable [22:14]
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decimation the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing [22:15]
mircea_popescu you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital. [22:16]
mircea_popescu analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem [22:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1028 @ 0.00094618 = 0.9727 BTC [+] [22:21]
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mircea_popescu benkay incidentally, this approach also illustrates what exactly the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged. [22:22]
mircea_popescu "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity. [22:22]
mircea_popescu they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite to both. [22:23]
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ThickAsThieves mp, youve got pm [22:28]
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decimation the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons? [22:31]
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asciilifeform always neglected is the question of wtf means 'earned.' i.e. the fellow who faithfully sits through traffic and warms a chair for 8hr/day moving paper from one pile to another, in the popular imagination, 'earns' something. [22:32]
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asciilifeform hi ninjashogun [22:37]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07416684 = 0.445 BTC [-] {3} [22:39]
asciilifeform ninjashogun: care to explain? [22:39]
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asciilifeform ninjashogun: steve jobs was famously asked, some time in '07, why he won't sell a 'netbook' [22:41]
CheckDavid My fellow brothers and sisters praiser the lord [22:41]
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asciilifeform and answered something like, 'if you mean a $300 small laptop, we don't know how to make one that isn't a piece of shit.' [22:42]
decimation ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect? [22:42]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-] [22:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-] {2} [22:43]
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asciilifeform that is approximately what i said, yes. [22:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06200008 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2} [22:44]
asciilifeform it is absolutely crucial that a cardano owner fully understand the gravity of his situation [22:44]
asciilifeform in the event of loss [22:45]
decimation there's no method to gaurantee the integrity of any device that could have been in the enemy's hands [22:45]
asciilifeform decimation: correct. i'm glad somebody gets this [22:46]
decimation well, then how does checking for std's map to this? [22:46]
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asciilifeform let's say that you own a pistol. it gets stolen and replaced without your knowledge for one that: shoots backwards. [22:48]
mircea_popescu std's are a very narrowly restricted set of problems [22:48]
asciilifeform before you laugh, the americans actually did this to the vietnamese on a few occasions [22:48]
asciilifeform ;;google project eldest son [22:48]
gribble Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles |: ; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam | Field ...: (1 more message) [22:48]
decimation seems like a sound plan [22:49]
decimation nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem [22:49]
mircea_popescu yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are their problem [22:50]
asciilifeform 'steering wheel spike' is a thought experiment, not a business plan. [22:51]
benkay how does this printed key work with the "fry" switch? [22:52]
benkay or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun? [22:52]
asciilifeform benkay: it wouldn't, clearly. this is lunacy. [22:52]
benkay i'm trying to drag the lunacy out into the open, asciilifeform. [22:52]
benkay (kicking and screaming though it may) [22:52]
benkay if the users of the cardano need the key printed on the outside to incentivize them to treat it carefully, those are the wrong customers for NSA. [22:53]
benkay again with this "mass market, make it stupid" SV bullshit. [22:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00094635 = 19.4948 BTC [-] [22:53]
asciilifeform in my earlier conversation with ninjashogun, i tried to explain the concept of only solving technical problems that can be solved -well-. [22:54]
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benkay don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?! [22:54]
benkay incorrect. [22:55]
benkay sign the cardano key with your master key, and revoke it when you lose it. [22:55]
benkay *wave hands* [22:55]
asciilifeform benkay is correct. [22:55]
decimation tamper evident seals? [22:55]
benkay there's more to it than that, but that's the high-level approach. [22:55]
asciilifeform decimation: owner is free to apply his own seals. [22:55]
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benkay ninjashogun: that's the whole point of "you guarantee physical security, cardano guarantees electrical security." [22:56]
benkay if you can't guarantee physical security, the device is useless. [22:56]
asciilifeform the only seal that is worth anything at all is a custom, preferably invisible one (e.g. perfume, specks of dust) applied by the owner. [22:56]
asciilifeform as discussed in mp's essay [22:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094607 = 11.684 BTC [-] {2} [22:56]
asciilifeform likewise, if i applied some magical seal (assume one exists) the buyer is unable to dissect his unit without losing it [22:57]
asciilifeform so the effort would be wasted. [22:57]
decimation 'professional' crypto products have a zeroize key [22:57]
asciilifeform zeroize key is as old as time. [22:57]
asciilifeform 19th c. codebooks came with anchors. [22:57]
asciilifeform (drop overboard) [22:57]
benkay lol anchors [22:57]
benkay !t m s.nsa [22:58]
assbot [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000145 / 0.00015512 / 0.000156 (1000 shares, 0.16 BTC), 7D: 0.0001 / 0.00010918 / 0.000156 (6000 shares, 0.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.0001236 / 0.00021 (79650 shares, 9.85 BTC) [22:58]
mircea_popescu they did [22:59]
asciilifeform certainly [23:00]
asciilifeform just as diamonds, pistols, nukes, are lost and stolen [23:00]
asciilifeform obligatory: [23:03]
asciilifeform [23:03]
ozbot Shall be Delivered | The Whet [23:03]
decimation can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution. [23:04]
asciilifeform ninjashogun: i am sad to say that you appear to have learned nothing from our conversation. [23:04]
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benkay asciilifeform: do you think this is a case for Hanlon? [23:06]
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decimation it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features [23:08]
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Apocalyptic dafuq am I reading [23:08]
benkay Apocalyptic: madness. [23:09]
decimation he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather [23:09]
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asciilifeform decimation: that's the most charitable explanation. [23:10]
mircea_popescu tibby is back !? [23:10]
mircea_popescu o the shogun guy. ya well... [23:10]
benkay ninjashogun: how would you make the key less accesible to an attacker? [23:10]
benkay mircea_popescu: tib's my thesis here. [23:10]
benkay ninjashogun: all trolls say "I'm not a troll". [23:11]
Apocalyptic ninjashogun, I hope i don't use any products resulting of your experience [23:11]
benkay sorry - inaccessible. [23:11]
benkay less accessible is not acceptable. [23:11]
benkay (for reasons you fail apparently to grasp) [23:12]
benkay seems as though you're the only one. [23:12]
benkay i think there's a good reason society's locked you up in a 100/mo shithole, sir. [23:12]
diametric oh he's back [23:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0619926 = 0.124 BTC [+] {2} [23:13]
benkay you're incapable of even convincing the government to pay your welfare. [23:13]
asciilifeform in safety engineering, there is a concept where precautions that annoy people and get in the way of work tend to make construction workers, oil prospectors, etc. worse off [23:13]
asciilifeform than nothing at all [23:13]
asciilifeform household example would be a smoke alarm that goes off every time you overcook a potato [23:13]
asciilifeform it tends to end up unplugged and in a parts bin [23:14]
Mats_cd03 oh snap [23:14]
Mats_cd03 [23:15]
ozbot Keyboard fight - YouTube [23:15]
decimation ninjashgun has your startup managed to acquire financing? [23:15]
mircea_popescu [23:15]
mircea_popescu in other news [23:15]
Mats_cd03 whenever i see tumblr my brain tells me "boobies" [23:16]
Mats_cd03 ive been trained by mp to react to tumblr [23:16]
asciilifeform i, personally, have nothing against paupers who live in $100, or even $10 ditches, and cannot finance anything [23:16]
mircea_popescu lol [23:16]
mircea_popescu titsbler [23:16]
asciilifeform but then come the 'ideas' [23:16]
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Mats_cd03 your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive [23:18]
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Mats_cd03 oops forgot an /s [23:18]
Mats_cd03 thats cool, what was the service or good being sold [23:19]
Mats_cd03 im actually not trolling [23:19]
Mats_cd03 but consulting firms are cool, i guess... [23:20]
benkay kakobrekla save us [23:20]
Mats_cd03 so much for innovation [23:20]
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Mats_cd03 i think youve spent too much time drinking the silicon valley koolaid [23:21]
Mats_cd03 if an idea was special nobody would be [23:22]
Mats_cd03 lol [23:22]
asciilifeform ninjashogun walks into 'alcoholics anonymous' with a jug of moonshine. 'perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with this!' [23:23]
Mats_cd03 i can't speak for anyone else [23:23]
asciilifeform everyone with a net connection, including Pashtuns using steam modems with ip-over-dead-goat have, at this point, 'had bad experience with startups.' [23:24]
mircea_popescu hahaha steam modems ? [23:24]
benkay ip-over-dead-goat! [23:24]
mircea_popescu your figures are good :D [23:24]
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asciilifeform i had a dream as a kid where me modem (old at&t 'paragon' fished from a skip) was a gas modem, and i forgot to turn off the gas [23:25]
mircea_popescu clearly someone's mom was intent on stove discipline [23:25]
asciilifeform (i know of no real life 'gas modem' but folks have proposed using gas, water, even sewer pipes for 'last mile' ip so be careful what you wish for) [23:25]
decimation 'last mile' power line modems are particuarly idiotic [23:26]
mircea_popescu "send emails over your farts! it's great for the environment and ok for your wallpaper" [23:26]
decimation spam the shortwave spectrum for a few megabits [23:26]
* asciilifeform looks for and fails to find the old article on robotic rats used to run wire through sewer pipes [23:26]
mircea_popescu i wonder if real rats ever tried to mate with them [23:27]
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decimation sending data through an accoustically coupled gas pipe would be amusing but slow [23:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06200001 = 0.186 BTC [-] {2} [23:28]
asciilifeform [23:28]
ozbot PricewaterhouseCoopers: Global: Insights & Solutions: MoneyTree™ [23:28]
ozbot super sewer robots [23:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.11950724 = 0.717 BTC [-] [23:29]
mircea_popescu decimation and if there's a gas explosion everyone gets unfriended ? [23:29]
mircea_popescu whole neighbourhood! [23:29]
dub I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university [23:29]
benkay valuation ≠ value. [23:30]
asciilifeform [23:30]
ozbot INSPECTOR SYSTEMS - MAKRO Plus, Service robots for sewer inspection [23:30]
asciilifeform etc [23:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.0009479 = 17.1342 BTC [+] {3} [23:30]
asciilifeform i saw a much simpler (cable-driven) version of this being used right here on my street. [23:30]
benkay you miss the point again. [23:31]
asciilifeform your heart, liver, corneas have a valuation. ask the chinese. anybody paid yet/ [23:31]
asciilifeform ? [23:31]
benkay so all of GLBSE is worthwhile i guess. [23:31]
dub CSS == value [23:32]
benkay PMB's == value [23:32]
asciilifeform ok found it: [23:32]
asciilifeform [23:32]
ozbot Forbidden Hillcrest, The Sewer Robots of Pulaski County [23:32]
asciilifeform this is quite like the one i saw. [23:32]
decimation interesting. Such a robot could be quite useful for setting up covert data connections [23:33]
Namworld [23:36]
ozbot Insight Vision Jet Propelled Camera [23:36]
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Namworld Protoss Observer, sewer model [23:37]
ozbot The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets -- Adams and Hillman 7 (2): 89 -- Injury Prevention [23:37]
mircea_popescu obviously my client splits it up as pula ski [23:37]
Mats_cd03 what is this "stove discipline" you speak of [23:40]
Mats_cd03 is this something you can only experience in the dreaded lubyanka [23:41]
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mircea_popescu well, natural gas is dangerous, in that it'll level a house. [23:42]
mircea_popescu pretty much the only way kids and senile old people have of causing serious trouble [23:42]
asciilifeform speaking of which, [23:42]
asciilifeform [23:42]
ozbot Merchants shut down after East Harlem gas explosion plead for help - NY Daily News [23:42]
mircea_popescu sahara boutique [23:43]
asciilifeform [23:43]
mircea_popescu sounds promising. [23:43]
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mircea_popescu 116th street wow. and yet it has buildings and everything ?! [23:44]
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asciilifeform given how it was an almost surgical demolition job of most of a block, probably a basement leak [23:45]
asciilifeform but ianafi (i am not a fire inspector)... [23:45]
nubbins` who is?! [23:46]
mircea_popescu so the city is responsible huh ? [23:46]
asciilifeform [23:46]
ozbot Crews focus on gas lines in New York building explosion [23:46]
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mircea_popescu data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArwAAAGbBAMAAADU1V5jAAAAJFBMVEX////g4OAgICBgYGBAQEAAAACgoKDAwMCAgIDl5f/U1O3d3d00vM7SAAAURUlEQVR4nO2du3MbNx7HoQcszbjR5DF3paLHJaXOGWVSchwzcQnThG0NG41z7jWZ81zryUWX9hoWTH9FOjWs/M/d4rUvYHcB7EKiud/vaChyd38L8MMfQQD7w28JgSAIatZnR37HeR4Wpb2LhCd/UH3B50ePnp5dE35D5pTzud6+d/JNtvPsiHB+KsgeMvLPs5uDpz9lz80x08qZ9l6T8yN6rF9lx9CJeipPn72eyw2fn/yYPe48Obs2+4sjt0+X73+ZXJ4+eUn4JHv/p99+Z7Y/n16Qk9sJ [23:54]
mircea_popescu mX2bPSGHU3Yw/+31++fTmya8j97s8Ov3xg9LeOXpDd6d8x/OP2TfmfmTNwXU6Wm6N/iwmtJH/8ne+vR69ka7l9IJ2Z+Qky8vMi67x5lrPmF7L3ZeXh5lW7JN81+/Jm+/mWYOff3u4vaDMpk/Ort4d51tOnj6Y3bM93RyebM7IY/k6Q3evVdkl2XIr8k5fX5ys3dyejR/ez63K7Ydup0e7b0g5MuL+eXNnJ49+0lvn/6ePfxyKlh+dpw93Wf7jMyn0iXnhH87P5j9xg9e/vx6/9WZNnl6+Pz4Umx6/112rv2v6OT9h/fXRJ2eZ+2OsBWf1ZH49MgOnV8eX353ezE7297G4fB8/gUTX+T57kS0va+yTc8yD/3r+fxo5+mbvQ8Zlw+kjndGzjNq54ezZy93zl9rk3df/M7OxKbbs+ [23:54]
mircea_popescu nF7OkRneweXx5lluL0s2fPJF5NUrgrPd5l/9p5P5ltcdtL6O0PynsP3ujGYY8fi39vj/e/un1yPXv2XLyq4p2TafZyuid+Ci8n2uTLt9ev3ohNl5xP+CzDe/g682z95dCNQ+a9OzfSe/9CJ/vs85PLyXyL8f6b7v5NN46X5bb3LAOxe7w3M79j+9W2N0MrvPcFOdo5ea1Nds+Pnr4Qm26Pdsjs7YROdubZl8Fue49l23si8E6zD2Gb8V6+0z2H7CdM9By+N9uznsPe/Fd+k+M9mP36+v035zcar2h7d85+frX/+kSbHM7I7bHY9NmPl9fzw1cZtOkxKfccTr/9e6XnkOH9fprh3f363t/3PWk/+xbrjumBaHtnevuh6Pc+Of3sOMdL/nF280j3ezO85O3pue456M7YwUvy7oLk [23:54]
mircea_popescu PYfMO8Xrcr9XNO3lfu8+++Ls7VdzcnhmV2xL9GXK4djtdcKTfxLaS3ju3Vn3MVC09n7qPgaCoAcV5YRzlj0Swpn4g4YUI4zJR0IJzf4euj5bpka8HOotphoHF96rVaD+DDUo648+xj2tk9X8v0yCFQ4MvMOXDbxSafGyBrzLrPW4WmX/ruTBS75aXcnHVbZlKbdl/5dyT/b3pzyWr9ThysZplJ0wNzJ7dBnDv0UfJcSbtb36r9Yxy/EWKK+WV+Ixe71ccb1tqfZkf//LjhXY1OFXqzajpTHSe5Z/LBO9RR8lxNuoMt7lUpMwpFZl75V7VlfSe8t4eaPRKjfSn9DI8epvsyG1NB6dHaH3mMbhKm8cJGeX0dXK7MmeZo/i9H/wRG/RRw+Od7VcrUqOeLWstL2F9670sTlet5HZow [23:54]
mircea_popescu iLPXzU3lsjtYrBu7Lwlg5E49CK98q0vV54cyOzZ8Rtr+hHiZ+2vI+11H2sK/PTlnfMlrqPdSVaZfnEZSQ7ZmJPdnqzZ1s7Zi14C7ld66r68s/GPS1GHpX00CeIt7zLOY9W33jXfnj7rsfNJh7qZ12qec+y6++OWRNjrNgVqMEqed/WQ9WcAa9TQ+FlNl6mx8IZWTk0Bt7osrkDL+VU/XHGmfgrdgVq9Hhd3ivAqj/GOfAGiz7OSTU0DoKtuJ7JKOMEeIPEOvBSxVZ4r6QLvEFinBpmrAEv4wqvbB6AN0iMduKVLS9+2qIk8PIWvFnbS0R3LKOLjlm4mPj2K1TchRfDiqSNA/D2w0sUXknZgb [23:54]
mircea_popescu ouch [23:54]
mircea_popescu sorry! [23:54]
asciilifeform puzzle for us all? [23:54]
benkay pastebin? [23:55]
benkay plus context? [23:55]
mircea_popescu its the ^OEX chart, 5 years, weekly [23:55]
mircea_popescu it looks beyond fucking ridiculous [23:55]
mircea_popescu here, i'll summarize it for you : [23:56]
mircea_popescu / [23:56]
Mats_cd03 it all makes sense now [23:56]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6139998 BTC [+] [23:56]
Mats_cd03 not [23:56]
benkay nice steady rate of inflation in the usd? [23:57]
* tyrion70 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:57]
mircea_popescu Mats_cd03 the ^OEX, ie standard and poor 100, is the index of us stocks. which supposedly have been moving like it's animated by the gosplan [23:57]
Mats_cd03 i see [23:58]
mircea_popescu benkay from 500 to 800 in 2 years ? [23:58]
mircea_popescu it was 500ish in 2002. [23:58]
mircea_popescu it was 500ish in 2007 [23:58]
mircea_popescu it was 500ish in 2012 [23:58]
mircea_popescu but since... [23:58]
mircea_popescu 25+% a year, twice madoff's presumed return. [23:59]
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