Forum logs for 22 Apr 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8973 @ 0.00099425 = 8.9214 BTC [-]	[00:01]
*	gecko_gs3 (~gecko@141-45-71-217.dyn.internet.emt.ee) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:01]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49000005 = 0.98 BTC [-] {2}	[00:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5791 @ 0.00098861 = 5.725 BTC [-]	[00:05]
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cgcardona_	;;rate danielpbarron 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and defended me when a scammer squatted on my nick in #bitcoin-otc	[00:09]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user danielpbarron has changed from 1 to 1.	[00:09]
cgcardona_	thanks btw ^	[00:09]
artifexd	cgcardona_: I wouldn't worry about total wot rating since it is a meaningless number.	[00:09]
artifexd	Sometimes a negative rating would be a good thing depending on who it came from.	[00:09]
fluffypony	like from Supa	[00:10]
artifexd	Imagine you had a negative rating from mtgox with the comment "TROLL!!!!!!"	[00:10]
cgcardona_	haha.	[00:10]
artifexd	I would see such a rating as reflecting positively on the ratee.	[00:10]
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cgcardona_	interesting way to look at it.	[00:10]
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rithm	i'd almost pay for a negrate from mgicaltux	[00:13]
rithm	*magicaltux	[00:13]
rithm	negrate from a scammer is a badge of honor	[00:13]
artifexd	Exactly. So you can't just look at the sum of the ratings and learn anything useful.	[00:14]
artifexd	Does anyone know of any wot visualization tools? I imagine something like bubbles with names and the lines connecting those bubbles are colored/weighted according to the rating.	[00:15]
bounce	sure you can. "person has been rated N times, some positive, some negative." -- negative ratings might well be the more interesting to read.	[00:15]
artifexd	When I said "look at the sum", I meant look at the single number which is the sum of all ratings.	[00:16]
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bounce	the fact that it exists at all is an interesting datum, inasmuch it doesn't say "not rated yet"	[00:17]
bounce	if it's well over 10 or -10 that's a clear indication it wasn't by just one rating either	[00:18]
artifexd	I would argue that the fact that it exists at all encourages the improper use of the wot.	[00:18]
bounce	no railroading powertools	[00:18]
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mircea_popescu	artifexd actually the controlling example is... anduck himself has a total negaitve	[00:27]
*	assbot removes voice from rithm	[00:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 57 @ 0.06269212 = 3.5735 BTC [-] {5}	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	also :	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	;;gettrust artifexd	[00:27]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask artifexd!sid28611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zasykpxnqiqgtbip. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user artifexd: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=artifexd \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=artifexd \| Rated since: Wed Mar 5 02:06:14 2014	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	first one.	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	!up rithm	[00:28]
assbot	Voicing rithm for 30 minutes.	[00:28]
*	assbot gives voice to rithm	[00:28]
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rithm	why must we voice me	[00:29]
rithm	the bot is dumb	[00:29]
artifexd	mircea_popescu: When asking about the visual tool, I meant for the whole wot. Specifically to identify islands, groups, etc.	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 published one recently iirc.	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	rithm because you have no wot.	[00:29]
rithm	can't someone just run a normal eggdrop bot and auto voice people	[00:29]
kakobrekla	rithm up yourself on pm	[00:29]
rithm	gaH	[00:29]
kakobrekla	or that.	[00:29]
rithm	BUT I HAVE TO CHANGE NICKS FOR THAT	[00:29]
rithm	and my caps getsd stuck	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	so stop sucking	[00:30]
kakobrekla	i think not anymore	[00:30]
rithm	lemme try	[00:30]
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artifexd	Interestingly, wrt anduck, he has a total of -69. There are 7 -10 ratings that are CLEARLY from the same person.	[00:31]
*	rithm is now known as jcpham	[00:31]
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*	assbot gives voice to jcpham	[00:31]
*	jcpham is now known as rithm	[00:31]
rithm	b-o-r-i-n-g	[00:31]
rithm	;;ident	[00:31]
gribble	CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'rithm', with hostmask 'rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm', is identified as user 'jcpham', with GPG key id C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, key fingerprint F7299BD73879E866613EAB24C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, and bitcoin address 157CrafPv8oGC7f5vVFuLnE1BgDYUND4hq	[00:31]
*	assbot gives voice to dexX7	[00:31]
rithm	;;unauth	[00:32]
gribble	Your GPG session has been terminated.	[00:32]
artifexd	dexX7: Did you visualize the entire wot?	[00:32]
dexX7	no :)	[00:32]
dexX7	only the assbot/#ba users	[00:32]
artifexd	But... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-04-2014#633726	[00:32]
artifexd	Ah	[00:33]
dexX7	sec	[00:33]
dexX7	http://i.imgur.com/xfGIozu.png	[00:33]
rithm	omg gold titans	[00:34]
rithm	incoming supposedly	[00:34]
dexX7	bounce posted a list of all users who may be voiced here	[00:34]
rithm	much excite	[00:34]
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dexX7	the tool used was https://gephi.org/ which allows to import simple csvs but it's really slow for large datasets (or i simply don't know how to use it properly which is not unlikely :)	[00:35]
artifexd	That's hot.	[00:35]
kakobrekla	rithm, yeah, although i fixed the parsing side, its not gonna work because it would break the simplicity of the design, so nick around if you wanna dick around	[00:44]
*	rithm dagger to the heart	[00:45]
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fluffypony	dexX7: very cool	[00:48]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4232 @ 0.00098871 = 4.1842 BTC [+]	[00:50]
bounce	probably should re-run that listing thing; the math was a bit borked.	[00:51]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 650 @ 0.14 = 91 BTC	[00:57]
bounce	oh foo, need to re-do the via thing. hm.	[00:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098871 = 10.2826 BTC [+]	[01:01]
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*	assbot gives voice to dignork	[01:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC	[01:04]
dignork	dexX7: try this one instead of Gephi: http://tulip.labri.fr/TulipDrupal/ , on my graphs Gephi just crashed, but this one survived	[01:05]
dexX7	ah ty	[01:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 11 @ 0.00994845 = 0.1094 BTC [-] {2}	[01:07]
dexX7	does anyone know since when blockchain.info is offline?	[01:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10347 @ 0.00098849 = 10.2279 BTC [-] {2}	[01:15]
dexX7	ah nvm. i found the blogpost	[01:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098373 = 12.7885 BTC [-] {3}	[01:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 600 @ 0.14 = 84 BTC	[01:22]
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ozbot	Palcohol: the powderised alcohol that turns water into rum \| Life and style \| The Guardian	[01:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11753 @ 0.00098483 = 11.5747 BTC [+]	[01:28]
bounce	how does that work, powdering a liquid?	[01:29]
bounce	``If you have $100 million or more to invest, we'll be happy to talk to you. :) Otherwise we are not taking on investors.'' -- totally legit	[01:31]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 50 @ 0.00750001 = 0.375 BTC [+] {2}	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	bounce da fuck is that ?	[01:35]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06611965 = 0.1984 BTC [+] {2}	[01:37]
assbot	Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.	[01:38]
*	assbot gives voice to benkay`	[01:38]
benkay`	thanks jurov	[01:38]
benkay`	bounce, jurov: it's a crystalline thing that absorbs alcohol.	[01:38]
benkay`	and then (i think) dissolves in water.	[01:39]
*	ChanServ removes voice from benkay`	[01:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00098321 = 29.8404 BTC [-] {3}	[01:39]
assbot	Voice for benkay` extended to 30 minutes.	[01:40]
*	assbot gives voice to benkay`	[01:40]
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*	assbot gives voice to benkay	[01:41]
benkay	figured it out	[01:41]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.480234 = 2.4012 BTC [-] {4}	[01:42]
thestringpuller	;;later tell mod6 yo mod6 mon, you dead?	[01:45]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:45]
dexX7	asicminer: "What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that? -> This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G." soo.. that's 8.5 - 67 petahash x_x	[01:45]
dexX7	source https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg6329377#msg6329377	[01:46]
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asciilifeform	loltronicly - just got home to the Lande of teh Phree (tm)	[01:48]
asciilifeform	spend almost as long arse-sniffed by inspector dogs, standing in line, as on airplane	[01:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001 BTC [-]	[01:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48000066 = 1.44 BTC [-] {2}	[01:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 470 @ 0.00448406 = 2.1075 BTC [-] {12}	[01:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00098994 = 23.1646 BTC [+] {2}	[01:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00099131 = 12.1931 BTC [+]	[01:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04010312 = 0.1203 BTC [+]	[01:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06611999 = 0.1322 BTC [+]	[01:55]
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thestringpuller	yo can we trade ATC in here?	[01:59]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: you live in the states?	[01:59]
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asciilifeform	thestringpuller: sadly, yes. i was brought there as a boy and haven't accumulated fuel for orbital escape velocity as of this moment.	[02:00]
thestringpuller	you know that's what I spend most of my time doing in kerbal space program	[02:02]
thestringpuller	i just shoot fuel into orbit	[02:02]
thestringpuller	like 90% of my time is spent doing that	[02:02]
thestringpuller	fucking gravity man	[02:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00099227 = 1.29 BTC [+]	[02:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8524 @ 0.00099227 = 8.4581 BTC [+]	[02:04]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform 12 hours ?!	[02:10]
asciilifeform	aye	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	what ?!	[02:10]
asciilifeform	some of it, to be fair, spend puttering around in munchen	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	nuts.	[02:10]
*	assbot gives voice to diametric	[02:12]
diametric	Fancy	[02:12]
asciilifeform	takes almost as long to get out of washington's airport as to do a great circle loop across atlantic.	[02:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18510 @ 0.00099173 = 18.3569 BTC [-] {2}	[02:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 49 @ 0.00475992 = 0.2332 BTC [+]	[02:16]
*	assbot gives voice to joecool	[02:16]
dexX7	did you do anything "suspicious" or is this the regular waiting time?	[02:17]
davout	;;rate asciilifeform 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL	[02:18]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.	[02:18]
davout	;;rate mike_c 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL	[02:18]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mike_c has been recorded.	[02:18]
davout	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL	[02:19]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.	[02:19]
davout	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR	[02:20]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 1.	[02:20]
davout	;;rate kakobrekla 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x	[02:21]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.	[02:21]
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davout	dexX7: i'm kind of surprised asciilifeform got through the customs at all with all the gear he was carrying :D	[02:22]
thestringpuller	lol rate away	[02:22]
dexX7	sounds like a nice party you guys had	[02:23]
davout	gribble will tell you if you overwrite a previous rating, right?	[02:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5488 @ 0.000986 = 5.4112 BTC [-]	[02:23]
davout	dexX7: it was very interesting indeed	[02:23]
diametric	I've been promised to hear some good stories about it tomorrow	[02:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49917942 = 2.4959 BTC [+] {3}	[02:24]
thestringpuller	davout: if you met them IRL wouldn't you give them at least a 5	[02:24]
davout	diametric: pictures speak a thousand words : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-04-2014#633655	[02:24]
diametric	davout: incredible	[02:25]
davout	thestringpuller: you reckon?	[02:26]
thestringpuller	5 was arbritrary	[02:26]
thestringpuller	lets say 2	[02:26]
thestringpuller	or 3	[02:26]
thestringpuller	being conservative and shit	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/an-hero-is-he/#comment-99191	[02:26]
ozbot	An hero is he… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	nao im almost as good as stan, i have my own derp.	[02:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 144 @ 0.00430214 = 0.6195 BTC [-] {8}	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	my 500th, but anyway.	[02:26]
diametric	That picture of Stan by the o-scope is amazing	[02:27]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[02:27]
davout	mircea_popescu: mazeltov	[02:27]
davout	i took a few pictures, mircea_popescu if you want to compile them lemme me know	[02:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 498 @ 0.00392797 = 1.9561 BTC [-] {18}	[02:35]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 394 @ 0.0032169 = 1.2675 BTC [-] {20}	[02:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.004201 = 0.2269 BTC [+]	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	davout jus' publish em	[02:39]
mircea_popescu	diametric pretty cool huh.	[02:39]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48131543 BTC [-]	[02:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 74 @ 0.00423376 = 0.3133 BTC [+] {4}	[02:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00424997 = 0.1317 BTC [+] {3}	[02:52]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4811317 BTC [-]	[02:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 92 @ 0.00424996 = 0.391 BTC [+] {2}	[02:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00013062 = 0.3266 BTC [-] {6}	[03:02]
thestringpuller	publish dat shit	[03:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48002102 BTC [-]	[03:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 110 @ 0.00436006 = 0.4796 BTC [+] {5}	[03:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.0009937 = 11.0798 BTC [+] {3}	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	"I found myself conversing with a young criminal lawyer who will soon be marrying into the same family that I did last summer. I think this makes us laws-in-laws."	[03:08]
mircea_popescu	funniest shit i read all week	[03:08]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49896855 = 0.9979 BTC [+]	[03:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00445 = 0.178 BTC [+] {2}	[03:32]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00739988 = 0.1776 BTC [+] {2}	[03:42]
asciilifeform	dexX7: regular queue! no one bothered to actually search, arse or suitcase, on egress	[03:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4810062 BTC [-]	[03:43]
dexX7	i heard many bad things about arrival, tsa and such but i didn't expect it to be that bad	[03:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00445694 = 0.1604 BTC [+]	[03:44]
asciilifeform	davout: the customs at all with all the gear he was carrying << not one guard gave so much as a rat's arse! colour me equally surprised.	[03:45]
asciilifeform	although not quite true	[03:46]
asciilifeform	the american one, on the last exit before dulles parking lot, wanted to know 'what kind of business? software? now say, what kind!'	[03:46]
asciilifeform	me: 'financial, of course. want a demo?'	[03:46]
asciilifeform	muppet: 'no thanks, that door please'	[03:47]
asciilifeform	davout, others: i've a vast collection of pics, of various things, will eventually sort and post one or two.	[03:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.49628404 = 3.9703 BTC [+] {4}	[03:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00099425 = 18.2942 BTC [+]	[03:49]
*	zoinky (~Adium@unaffiliated/zoinky) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49999948 = 10 BTC [+] {4}	[03:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00454263 = 0.477 BTC [+] {3}	[03:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.4995 = 0.999 BTC [-] {2}	[03:58]
kakobrekla	well, i had the romanian customs scratching my passport with his fingernails for like 10 minutes, asking all sorts of questions.	[04:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35793 @ 0.00099105 = 35.4727 BTC [-] {3}	[04:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 38 @ 0.47857315 = 18.1858 BTC [-] {10}	[04:03]
Apocalyptic	heh	[04:05]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 35 @ 0.007 = 0.245 BTC [+]	[04:23]
*	TestingUnoDosTre (~AndChat31@184-97-173-162.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:24]
*	assbot gives voice to TestingUnoDosTre	[04:26]
TestingUnoDosTre	thank you assbot	[04:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0295 = 0.118 BTC [-]	[04:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4899989 BTC [+]	[04:29]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@S010628c68e00af53.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:30]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla anything good ?	[04:31]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[04:34]
kakobrekla	nah	[04:34]
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asciilifeform	loper-os.org/pub/humans	[04:37]
asciilifeform	everyone here should recognize at least one or two of these.	[04:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.49697762 = 1.9879 BTC [+] {2}	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform lol mike looks like he's in trouble in that 1st one	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	actually he looks like he's in trouble throughout. poor him	[04:43]
kakobrekla	apparently i managed not to get doxxed this time	[04:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00099425 = 4.6233 BTC [+]	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	nobody knoes how you look like!	[04:46]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.006988 = 0.1328 BTC [-]	[04:57]
*	assbot gives voice to cgcardona_	[05:04]
kakobrekla	illegal, apparently.	[05:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.07608533 = 0.1522 BTC [+]	[05:05]
cgcardona_	asciilifeform: epic pics. wish I was there.	[05:06]
asciilifeform	cgcardona_: mr. p throws one hell of a party.	[05:06]
cgcardona_	i can only imagine. hopefully next year	[05:06]
cgcardona_	;;rate asciilifeform 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and posted pics of the 2014 conf	[05:08]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.	[05:08]
asciilifeform	also, turns out the plastic-and-pluckfoam case thing is a good idea. everything else in my baggage got spindled, save for the contents of the Evil Attache.	[05:09]
asciilifeform	(container pictured in bottom left of last photograph)	[05:09]
mircea_popescu	so anyone ran pagerank on wot yet ?	[05:11]
asciilifeform	;;ident	[05:12]
gribble	Nick 'asciilifeform', with hostmask 'asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net', is identified as user 'asciilifeform', with GPG key id B98228A001ABFFC7, key fingerprint 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, and bitcoin address None	[05:12]
asciilifeform	;;rate davout 1 human!	[05:12]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user davout has been recorded.	[05:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5582 @ 0.00099254 = 5.5404 BTC [-]	[05:12]
asciilifeform	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 human!	[05:12]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.	[05:12]
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TestingUnoDosTre	What is hooked up to the oscilloscope in that picture?	[05:13]
asciilifeform	TestingUnoDosTre: rng.	[05:13]
cgcardona_	in person wot-o-meter	[05:13]
asciilifeform	lul	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	not thick enough	[05:13]
TestingUnoDosTre	random number generator?	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	yes part of teh cardano	[05:15]
joecool	nah it's a heart monitor	[05:15]
joecool	nice though, first prototypes?	[05:16]
asciilifeform	joecool: second.	[05:16]
mircea_popescu	actually someone was trying to measure their pulse	[05:17]
mircea_popescu	but too noisy power	[05:17]
asciilifeform	need something like this:	[05:18]
asciilifeform	http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/127422769.png	[05:18]
joecool	http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/1.jpg < you see this? this means you tell lies!	[05:19]
mircea_popescu	how so !?	[05:19]
mircea_popescu	o lol	[05:19]
joecool	mircea_popescu: would be a funny caption for it :)	[05:19]
mircea_popescu	yeah hehe	[05:19]
mircea_popescu	"and this is why you can;t have a penis"	[05:20]
joecool	"you are not the father!"	[05:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00099254 = 6.7493 BTC [-]	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	"you sure you didn't eat the twix bar ?"	[05:21]
cgcardona_	"the price of btc over time"	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	anway, i'm out. take it ezzy!	[05:22]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[12:10]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[12:10]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[12:10]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[12:10]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[12:12]
HeySteve	here is that article I mentioned: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/sorcerer-hiva-oa-paul-gauguin-available-90000-btc/2014/04/22	[12:12]
mircea_popescu	lol so gigaom is promoting coindesk ? oh how very surprising.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve dude wtf, 45mn seriously ?	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	when has gauguin ever sold for 40mn ?	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	http://www.artnet.com/artists/paul-gauguin/cylindre-au-christ-à-l-idole-b4sGfNf9LAv7N214A3Uq6A2	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	there, buy a copper dildo he made for ... 20k usd.	[12:17]
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mircea_popescu	Te Po sold for what, half a mil or w/e	[12:18]
HeySteve	it's a tremendous sum	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	!up rabite	[12:18]
assbot	Voicing rabite for 30 minutes.	[12:18]
*	assbot gives voice to rabite	[12:18]
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mircea_popescu	HeySteve it's laughable.	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	!up sunshyne	[12:18]
assbot	Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.	[12:18]
*	assbot gives voice to sunshyne	[12:18]
HeySteve	however, that value was estimated in one of the linked stories I believe	[12:19]
HeySteve	involving the NFL star's ponzi scheme	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	i mean i guess the idea is that bitcoiners are so fucking rich and clueless that they have no idea what's what, so they may throw 100k btc on something worth 1% of that.	[12:19]
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mircea_popescu	god knows they've been doing it with all the ipos	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve i tell you i dun see it. i estimate it to be worth in the 90-190 btc range. now what ?	[12:19]
HeySteve	well, I don't expect it will sell for bitcoin, more likely for USD if they get their price (which may be lower than their asking)	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	i'll bet you it won't sell for 40mn usd or equiv.	[12:20]
HeySteve	well it's worth what people will pay for it I guess.	[12:20]
HeySteve	heh I don't know enough about fine art to want to take that bet	[12:20]
HeySteve	I'm just reporting what the seller's agent told me	[12:20]
HeySteve	still, anything above 12 million would make it the most expensive thing offered for btc to my knowledge	[12:21]
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mircea_popescu	HeySteve don't get me wrong, i'm not laying into you personally or anything	[12:22]
mircea_popescu	jus... doing the topic justice as it were.	[12:22]
Naphex	morning	[12:24]
HeySteve	sure thing, I think many people will have questions at that price especially considering the piece's history	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	Naphex hey	[12:24]
HeySteve	hi	[12:24]
fluffypony	I started a blog that I'm aiming to update extremely sporadically and only when I particularly feel like it	[12:26]
fluffypony	http://blog.spagni.net/posts/2014-04-22/	[12:26]
HeySteve	fluffypony I get a server not found error in FF	[12:27]
fluffypony	HeySteve: oh new CNAME, may not have propogated yet	[12:27]
fluffypony	although it is multicast so I dunno, ZA DNS providers are just slow and stupid	[12:28]
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cazalla	loads here	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve good sign your isp is an asshole.	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	prolly runs you through crappy local dns servers	[12:31]
HeySteve	given the stability of my connection, I'd say it's confirmed they are	[12:32]
fluffypony	HeySteve: who you with? mwub?	[12:32]
HeySteve	yeah fluffypony, although problem could also be on telkom side	[12:33]
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HeySteve	mircea_popescu I found another of his oil paintings going for nearly $10 mil	[12:33]
fluffypony	HeySteve: when the wind blows or it rains our connection goes down, welcome to Africa	[12:33]
HeySteve	http://www.findartinfo.com/search/listprices.asp?keyword=17524&name=Paul-Gauguin	[12:33]
ozbot	Art auction result for artist Paul Gauguin. Free art prices	[12:33]
HeySteve	fluffypony, yep had a lightning strike and it's been erratic ever since.	[12:33]
HeySteve	phone call interrupts connection but only rings once, etc. very tedious.	[12:34]
fluffypony	we had that, and it turned out that our splitter thingy was bust, Telkom tech just replaced it	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony you ever seen white cat/black cat ?	[12:35]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: nope/	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	great somalian film. in it there's a scene where old woman can't talk on cellphone	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything)	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	fixes her problem.	[12:36]
fluffypony	LOL	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	film also has interspersed scenes of a hog eating a trabant	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	if you know what those are.	[12:36]
fluffypony	like the car?	[12:37]
HeySteve	fluffypony, don't think it's the splitter, got a new one. think water is getting in the line somehow	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	yep	[12:38]
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fluffypony	mircea_popescu: wife is East German, so I've learnt about a lot of that stuff, especially from her grandparents	[12:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.00699967 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}	[12:38]
fluffypony	her grandfather (maternal) was a professor of economics, incredibly gifted man, who is now suffering from dementia	[12:39]
fluffypony	it's quite sad because he'll have these flashes when we've been talking about Bitcoin where he'll understand everything and comment with incredible depth	[12:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00024999 = 0.125 BTC [+]	[12:39]
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fluffypony	and then five seconds later forget how to eat properly	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	"We would also let you know that a letter is also attached to your package. However, we cannot quote its content to you via E-mail for privacy reasons. We understand that the content of your package itself is a Bank Draft worth $800,000.00 USD; in FedEx we do not ship money in CASH or in CHEQUE but in Bank Drafts only."	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	logical.	[12:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.519998 BTC [+]	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony that sucks.	[12:41]
cazalla	how old is he fluffypony	[12:43]
cazalla	my opa died last year, his dementia dragged on for about 5 years	[12:43]
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fluffypony	cazalla: 75	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	!up Rick__	[12:44]
fluffypony	shame that sucks	[12:44]
assbot	Voicing Rick__ for 30 minutes.	[12:44]
*	assbot gives voice to Rick__	[12:44]
Rick__	looking for arji	[12:44]
cazalla	seems young, my opa was 94	[12:44]
Rick__	ask about my money	[12:44]
fluffypony	cazalla: yeah he has it quite young	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	;;seen arij	[12:45]
gribble	arij was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: pLambert, yes, pm me	[12:45]
cazalla	according to 23andme, it's my highest risk disease too	[12:45]
fluffypony	:/	[12:45]
fluffypony	I live in fear of that	[12:45]
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mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic what's crypton do ?	[12:46]
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cazalla	i don't tbh as i'm still relatively young and by the time i'm old, perhaps there will be a cure	[12:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 60 @ 0.00179766 = 0.1079 BTC [-] {2}	[12:49]
fluffypony	cazalla: true that	[12:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00099382 = 6.3108 BTC [+] {2}	[12:51]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0118 = 0.1062 BTC [-]	[13:03]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0655 = 0.1965 BTC [-]	[13:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14074 @ 0.00098819 = 13.9078 BTC [-] {3}	[13:12]
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*	ChanServ gives voice to gribble	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	oh for the love of all that's holy.	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	so there's this romanian rap band, bug mafia. it exists since the 90s, it was one of the first in the sense someone in bitcoin since 2010 is "one of the first". they're to this day the best by a very very fat margin.	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	then one day i use one of their lines as a title for a post, and i get the #1 spot by morning.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	google is racist, basically.	[13:20]
fluffypony	yeah but wouldn't your competition be lyrics sites?	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	they have their own official site and everything. problem is, they don't have much english support on the web, being.. you know, a romanian language band.	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	this would be the definition of racism : 10 units of e + 1 unit of r is more than 0e + 100 r.	[13:24]
fluffypony	ah	[13:24]
fluffypony	I wonder if your post would show up first for Romanian language results	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	problem is [most] everyone in romania uses english google	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	(and english kbds, for that matter)	[13:25]
fluffypony	ah	[13:25]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: BUG Mafia, you repping mircea?:p	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	because w/e, romanians were liek teh first on the internet.	[13:25]
fluffypony	quite unlike the Germans who won't use it if it's not in German	[13:25]
Naphex	always tought you a Parazitii man	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony exactyly the opposite yeah	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	Naphex i actually like them both. which i guess is somewhat rare.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony as far as romanians are concerned, the 90s were spent going "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, does it suck ?	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	maybe that's starting to fade, but defo hasn't yet.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	Naphex btw, this is what you've missed : http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/	[13:27]
Naphex	next year	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	cool	[13:28]
Naphex	had my own party this weekend, chilling and doing nothing at all :)	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	kinda rthe idea	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	some peeps' first encounter of the proper european lunch, where you spend a few good hours with your food.	[13:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 924 @ 0.000135 = 0.1247 BTC [+]	[13:30]
fluffypony	it's the only way to eat	[13:31]
fluffypony	it should almost blend into supper time, so you top it off towards the evening without needing to eat an entire other meal	[13:31]
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mircea_popescu	either that or move to drinking.	[13:32]
fluffypony	yep	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	a btw, to bother everyone : local isp just unveiled its easter surprise w/e.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	200mbps. 19euro.	[13:35]
bounce	glass? symmetric?	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	glass yeah. no, you get like 1/8 that ul.	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	you can get it symmetric, but it's not really useful or needed for most end users.	[13:35]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: in oradea Tesari/RDS has Fiberlink 1G/s at 59RON	[13:36]
Naphex	~16USD	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	AND they will layer it for you. you can get 1tbps both ways in this country, and it won't break your bank.	[13:36]
fluffypony	jealous.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	Naphex lol	[13:36]
*	fluffypony looks at his 4mbps connection currently syncing at 2.4mbps	[13:37]
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mircea_popescu	fluffypony yeah. ppl are liek... "how come romania?!?!" and i'm like... dude, how long you got ?	[13:37]
fluffypony	heh	[13:37]
*	HeySteve (HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	Naphex oradea is like rds homebase is it ?	[13:39]
Naphex	yep	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	better juice closer to the plant :D	[13:39]
Naphex	it started here, with TVS (The TV network)	[13:39]
*	rithm (~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	actually upc arguably started as astral, which you know... got started by the father of a chick i was doing back in hs	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	he hated me.	[13:40]
Naphex	hehe	[13:40]
bounce	it doesn't really make sense to throttle the uplink on glass, though. it's likely just throttled gigabit.	[13:40]
Naphex	is there no RDS in TM?:)	[13:40]
bounce	good for the gamer kids though, "low ping"	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	Naphex sure there is.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	bounce they save on gear upstream is all.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	see, for instance, the whole town is full of fiber spools hanging from poles	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	because rather than buy the cutter they just don't cut it.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	spool it up, stick it in the box.	[13:41]
bounce	like you're ever going to take it out and put it somewhere else. even so, throttling the uplink doesn't really buy you much of anything, hardware wise	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00098533 = 7.8826 BTC [-]	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	no, but it does bw wise.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	romania could, on the basis of end user installed gateways, nuke the rest of hte planet off the internet	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	and... it would.	[13:43]
Naphex	its true :)	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	just imagine you have something like 10mn customers doing 1gbit uplink each	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	and now find me a peer that'll relay this.	[13:44]
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bounce	depends on how the transit agreements work. some places actually liked generating more bandwidth "the other way", as it pushed the balance a bit more towards evening out	[13:44]
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mircea_popescu	so basically, if they actually allowed the uplink they'd have to have a filtering datacenter.	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	cheaper this way.	[13:46]
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mircea_popescu	(and even if it isn't, i'm pretty sure that's their rationale)	[13:47]
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mircea_popescu	;;later tell bitcoinpete you're #10 on a google search for "bitcoin pete". while your twitter acct is #1.	[13:51]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	google is racist : it will push profiles in twitter BUT NOT facebook. it will push wikipedia articles.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	basically it has a shortlist of websites that it gives preferential treatment to.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	curious how long till the lolsuit.	[13:52]
Naphex	they have been doing that for ages	[13:52]
Naphex	twinking PageRank for domains	[13:52]
Naphex	that that product split with Google Now / Google	[13:52]
Naphex	then they merged together in the current version, which will always have preferential PageRank	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	Naphex but see, that's the snag : they used to do it as a per-domain page rank thing.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile they took that out,	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	and simply replaced with a handwritten list, either our friends or everyone else.	[13:53]
Naphex	yep you get filtered down and placed in a bubble	[13:53]
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mircea_popescu	benkay`:	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years. << so you had brosex.	[14:00]
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mircea_popescu	"Bringing Cryptocurrency To Women Worldwide, CryptoMoms.com Launches" ahaha how fucktarded can you get.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	the better women aren't moms, yo.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=100 << bash #100. qft.	[14:03]
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mircea_popescu	HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets... << which is why wot.	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing << there's a reason for this. you shoulodn't be providing privkeys.	[14:07]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yeah that's exactly what I said	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	yeah i see	[14:08]
fluffypony	although tbh I don't know why sites like that and BTCJam etc. don't just integrate with the WoT	[14:08]
fluffypony	instead of reinventing the wheel (and doing so badly)	[14:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 58 @ 0.00743106 = 0.431 BTC [+] {2}	[14:09]
*	assbot gives voice to HeySteve	[14:09]
HeySteve	mircea_popescu, quite so. I spoke to nanotube about integrating WoT with a cryptocurrency	[14:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00750003 = 0.18 BTC [+] {2}	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve i don't follow ? the wot is integrated with any cryptocurrency as it is. i can and have rated people for say... atc deals.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony because idiocy.	[14:11]
HeySteve	sure, but putting the identity and associated ratings into a blockchain	[14:11]
HeySteve	been working on this for a while	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony and in the case of btcjam, because they know they're running a scam platform. it'd make no sense to take any steps that make this more obvious than it actually is.	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve so like a sort of a db backup maintained distributedly ?	[14:12]
HeySteve	yep that's it	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	i know nanotube was working on a wot 2.0 that'd be distributed and not depend on him	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	seeing how he's all old and frail and will eventually go.	[14:12]
HeySteve	and associating costs with establishing an identity and rating people may improve the system slightly	[14:13]
HeySteve	I have a further idea to incentivise non-scammy behaviour too	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	no.	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	incentives do not belong in the wot.	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	gotta keep it separated	[14:13]
HeySteve	hmm, why do you say that?	[14:14]
mircea_popescu	why do i say what ?!	[14:15]
HeySteve	<+mircea_popescu> incentives do not belong in the wot.	[14:15]
mircea_popescu	because the wot is the measure of how people respond to incentives, it makes no sense to change its neutrality to add incentives for particular responses.	[14:15]
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Apocalyptic	can't agree more	[14:16]
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HeySteve	ah. well as I see it, bad behaviour leads to negative rep which makes future trades less likely and the inverse is true. that's how I use the term incentives.	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	that's exactly how it works now.	[14:17]
HeySteve	right, but my idea is to augment that	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	let me make this point clearer through an example. suppose i go to a village in somalia. this village has 100 people and they're all normal people, they do good and bad things by w/e definition of good and bad.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	i own more money than the entire village is worth, a million times over.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	so i say to these people : each day you only do good deeds, you will receive your average yearly income. but for every bad deed you do, you get fined x% of that.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	now, this obviously will make everyone do nothing but good deeds (presuming rational actors),	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	but it will also make it impossible for women to pick mates.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	because... well... what the fuck, everyone's doing good deeds whether they're good men or not.	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	and so through incentivising good behaviour i managed to... break the wot.	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	once i leave that village is fucked.	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	and now you also understand why western aid ruins africa.	[14:20]
fluffypony	incentivised ratings also opens the incentives themselves to Sybil attacks, no?	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[14:21]
fluffypony	all I need to do is create a number of fake actors and claim they only did good deeds today (each fake actor supporting the other) and I receive average yearly income * the number of fake actors I've created	[14:22]
HeySteve	sure, but in the WoT there is no cost to create sockpuppets	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[14:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.52420746 = 26.2104 BTC [+] {11}	[14:23]
HeySteve	right, to register an identity within this system there would be a BTC cost	[14:23]
fluffypony	HeySteve: yes	[14:23]
fluffypony	but spotting the sockpuppets is easy	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve this counterintuitively makes your system weaker.	[14:24]
fluffypony	HeySteve: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	because the cost is not a discouragement to the sybil, if it has a way to turn a profit	[14:24]
fluffypony	followed by: http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	but it IS a discouragement to the legit members.	[14:24]
HeySteve	fluffypony I have studied that article in some depth	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	and so through adding a cost you're actually skewing it towards scammers.	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	this is much ampler discussed in this older article : http://trilema.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/	[14:25]
HeySteve	well, I want to make the signup cost vastly more expensive than the cost of earning rep through good behaviour	[14:25]
fluffypony	so then you're chasing away legitimate users	[14:25]
mircea_popescu	this does not speak to the problem.	[14:25]
fluffypony	I won't pay to use the system when there's a perfectly good free one I'm already on :-P	[14:26]
HeySteve	heh well, I hope we can satisfy such concerns and build something useful	[14:26]
HeySteve	appreciate discussing it with people who understand the WoT in depth	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve understand tho : this is not quite unlike solid state physics, or radioastronomy.	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	i can respect your desire to build a better process for refining hahnium, or for resolving doppler aberrations in telescopy.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless, these are not tasks of the same nature as mowing the lawn.	[14:27]
Naphex	while we're talking incetives, any opinion on a good referral system for bitcoin exchange users?	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	Naphex referrals markets is a TOTAL mess in btc.	[14:28]
fluffypony	Naphex: what do you mean? like an affiliate-style system?	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	bitbet has a very sweet one, and it's barely used.	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	that's actually one major thing to do. yo fluffypony what did you do for a living ? or cazalla ?	[14:28]
Naphex	some customers keep asking for one	[14:29]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: one of the directors of a small group of companies, of which OpenRigs is a part	[14:29]
Naphex	more like just rewarding users for inviting other users	[14:29]
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mircea_popescu	someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank	[14:29]
fluffypony	agreed	[14:30]
*	fluffypony puts it on his list of future projects	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	affiliate advertising is going to be major in this space, and currently it's way the fuck nowhere.	[14:30]
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-fluffypony-	when you get a moment to read, this is why HeySteve/DinoSaw wants to have the WoT in an altcoin: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xsZm0chT	[14:31]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52898999 BTC [+]	[14:32]
Naphex	well i was just thinking, rewarding inviters with 0.0001 upon each withdrawal by an invitee	[14:33]
Naphex	some incentive there o.o	[14:33]
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fluffypony	Naphex: I've seen some REALLY good affiliate systems that do very small lifetime rewards	[14:33]
fluffypony	eg. for every referred customer you get 2% of their fees forever	[14:34]
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Naphex	along the lines where i was thinking:P	[14:34]
fluffypony	small enough that the guy referring one or two customers won't care	[14:34]
Naphex	but we run 0% comission soooo :)	[14:34]
fluffypony	but at scale it's amazing	[14:34]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[14:34]
fluffypony	Naphex: so your fees are withdrawal only, no trade fees?	[14:34]
Naphex	no trade fees, some fees at withdrawal fiats, and 0.0001 at BTC withdrawal	[14:35]
Naphex	fees for fiat withdrawal are basic bank fees	[14:35]
fluffypony	are you priming the system to attract an audience before raising fees, or are you just very altruistic company?	[14:36]
fluffypony	:-P	[14:36]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you there ?	[14:36]
Naphex	fluffypony: we are raising fees at some point	[14:36]
fluffypony	Naphex: it's going to be tough to incentivise affiliates without that, rock and a hard place scenario	[14:37]
HeySteve	perhaps I'm being thick but I don't see how http://trilema.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/ applies to blockchain WoT. Nigerians pic made me lol though	[14:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 265 @ 0.00084295 = 0.2234 BTC [+]	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve it applies to the problem of putting a cost on the user.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony the romanian expression is "suntem pe investitii"	[14:38]
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Naphex	:))	[14:38]
HeySteve	well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	to translate this, some history : romania was a communist country. to get it on a capitalist system, anyone not fucktarded enough was simply given money, from the state.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	yes, just like that.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	if you had any sort of a clue and could talk the talk of business, you just got money.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	exactly the way i handle btc, incidentally. just don't sound like the lumpens and you'll be okay.	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	this resulted in all the moral hazard you might expect, but also into the most fiscally stable country in europe, and with stores of physical gold per capita well above everyone else	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	one of the edge cases of that moral hazard were idiot "business men" who thought they actually have a clue, but in fact were products of a fortunate environment like that.	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	notably, some of these magnates "invested" in media.	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	their investments fared about as well as neobee's, a few degrees of magnitude larger.	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	one of the best examples is a fellow known as varanul, ie dan voiculescu	[14:41]
Naphex	hehe	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	this schmuck was given something to the tune of a few bn usd, and ten years later he had to have a very embarassing 100mn sent to him in the middle of the electoral campaign,	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	because he was out of fucking money.	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	think about it, you give a schmuck 1bn and legal immunity, you'd fucking expect he can pay you 100mn a year for the rest of all eternity.	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	not this guy tho.	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	and not the only example, either.	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	and hence, the "suntem pe investitii" expression, which is what said idiots said about their media "empires", for 3-4 years	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	"we're in investment mode"	[14:43]
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fluffypony	crazy	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	then suddenly they ran out of money, the bottom fell out of the market, and the 20-30k or so idiots who really thought there can exist such a thing as a "career in media" upon the basis of which they could like... take bank loans and buy houses and cars	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	discovered they have to suck my cock for a soup each day they wish to eat a soup.	[14:44]
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fluffypony	sounds like that 17 year old "CEO" from the other day	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	not so far off. one of the schmucks made petrom, which is exactly copied after bp	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	even to the logo.	[14:44]
dexX7	someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank < what is a clickbank?	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	rompetrol im sorry not petrom	[14:45]
Naphex	which got sold off tooo OMV in early 2006	[14:45]
fluffypony	dexX7: affiliate marketplace, basically	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 this is where we google ?	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	Naphex check that shit out, they evenb have the entire coin* bit* issue going	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	im confusing rompetrol and petrom like i'd confuse bitfuck and fuckcoin	[14:46]
dexX7	oh i assumed you made this word up	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	anyway. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/ROMPETROL.png << rompetrol ; http://www.edmundburkeinstitute.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Bp.jpg << bp	[14:46]
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fluffypony	lol	[14:47]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, to close that up : perhaps the most lucid of thoise 20-30k idiots is a fellow named cristi parvan. this guy http://www.parvan.ro/	[14:50]
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mircea_popescu	si pentru cine cunoaste, http://trilema.com/2011/particip-la-ronewmedia-60/#comment-99026	[14:52]
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Naphex	i never read blogs, or cared much about them	[14:55]
Naphex	where are you pulling this guys out of O.o	[14:56]
Naphex	:D	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	you see, i had an intel department for years before i found bitcoin	[14:56]
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mircea_popescu	overnight success is the result of fortunate coincidences like that.	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	!up hansi001	[14:56]
assbot	Voicing hansi001 for 30 minutes.	[14:56]
*	assbot gives voice to hansi001	[14:56]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: running intel on what?:p	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	well yes.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble << more like an intellectual cost. this is good, because idiots don't manage to figure out how to do it, which serves us and them.	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	replacing that with a financial cost only works if you live in a functioning market economy,	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	which is an economy in which the government accounts for 1% or less of the gdp	[15:02]
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mircea_popescu	!up awrelll	[15:05]
assbot	Voicing awrelll for 30 minutes.	[15:05]
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HeySteve	I hear what you're saying about the IQ barrier of GPG. we don't aim to replace that, only add to it	[15:06]
awrelll	FixmypcRO here	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience.	[15:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098645 = 12.8239 BTC [+]	[15:08]
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mircea_popescu	awrelll mircea_popescu> aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience. << this was for you.	[15:09]
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davout	hi all	[15:09]
kakobrekla	heya	[15:10]
fluffypony	davout: bonjour	[15:10]
HeySteve	hello	[15:10]
Naphex	hey	[15:11]
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fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: home safe?	[15:11]
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davout	Naphex: i was a little disappointed to not see you in timisoara	[15:12]
Naphex	davout: i would've come but it was all out of VIP tickets	[15:12]
Naphex	hehe	[15:12]
Naphex	its only a 1.30 -> 2h drive to there	[15:12]
Naphex	but next year	[15:12]
awrelll	salut, nu am inteles foarte clar ce anume cauti, eram interesat de o colaborare in caz ca sunt potrivit	[15:12]
davout	next year might be quite a longer drive :-)	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	awrelll you speak english ?	[15:13]
awrelll	i do	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	cool. so. tell me about your experience as an affiliate manager.	[15:13]
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Naphex	bit of a stage fright there i figure	[15:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4462 @ 0.00098645 = 4.4015 BTC [+]	[15:15]
awrelll	i am not sure if i qualify, i wanted to know more about this, sorry if i am wasting your time	[15:15]
*	assbot gives voice to ThickAsThieves	[15:15]
ThickAsThieves	hello folks	[15:15]
Naphex	hey o/	[15:15]
davout	ThickAsThieves: hi	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	well basically the idea is i need someone with significant experience.	[15:15]
ThickAsThieves	i've got some catching up to do	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	jesus they voice everyone in here these days. ThickAsThieves when did you get out!	[15:16]
ThickAsThieves	just woke up after catching up on personal life and sleep	[15:17]
ThickAsThieves	<+fluffypony> ThickAsThieves: home safe? /// i think the airport gifted me a cold	[15:17]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: that's the worst :/	[15:17]
ThickAsThieves	we'll see if it takes full form	[15:18]
mircea_popescu	mpoe-pr got one too.	[15:18]
ThickAsThieves	for now just an itchy nose	[15:18]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]	[15:21]
Naphex	so how'd you guys enjoy Romania?:)	[15:22]
davout	Naphex: Romania is very nice	[15:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06434114 = 0.193 BTC [-]	[15:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]	[15:23]
Naphex	did mircea take you out to see the vampires and cheeky girls ?:)	[15:23]
*	joesmoe (~joesmoe@2601:1:b200:475:211:32ff:fe18:ef25) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:24]
ThickAsThieves	Romania was enjoyable	[15:25]
ThickAsThieves	pretty, walkable	[15:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-]	[15:25]
ThickAsThieves	no vamps tho	[15:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}	[15:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6374 @ 0.00098529 = 6.2802 BTC [-] {2}	[15:26]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.52892571 = 3.7025 BTC [+] {2}	[15:27]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central, puts the french back in the fries	[15:28]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user davout has been recorded.	[15:28]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate kakobrekla 3 pumps the #bitcoin-assets blood, bitbet	[15:28]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.	[15:28]
asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: no vamps tho << should've gone with me on expedition at night. i flushed out the wild dog packs that i -knew- existed.	[15:29]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate asciilifeform 3 makes stuff for No Such lAbs, intellectual and storyteller	[15:29]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.	[15:29]
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davout	asciilifeform: did they accept you as their new leader?	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	lol	[15:30]
asciilifeform	davout: i was too big. they were all little beagles, other miniature animals	[15:31]
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davout	asciilifeform: it's not the size, it's the smell that counts :D	[15:31]
asciilifeform	funny these beasts - the dogs 900km east, of my childhood, were active in the day.	[15:32]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate mircea_popescu 3 MPEx and other businesses, a most reliable voice of reason	[15:32]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 3.	[15:32]
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asciilifeform	other phun phact - the weirdo allergies i suffered since 1995 shut off like a light bulb when i landed in Ro.	[15:33]
asciilifeform	me sorry carcass hates teh 'new world.'	[15:33]
mircea_popescu	most us allergies are allergies to the us.	[15:34]
asciilifeform	i suspected that this was literally true, for my own case	[15:34]
asciilifeform	now, know.	[15:34]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate mike_c 3 Making cool stuff yet to be seen by the masses, ATC supporter	[15:34]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	i just wonder if large scale gmo will also yield some mutant hay fevers	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	maybe you can get bubonic hay fever	[15:35]
asciilifeform	whatever the crud is, it gives me problems year round here.	[15:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.52979 = 5.2979 BTC [+] {2}	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	a nerdier man would have brought home air samples.	[15:36]
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mircea_popescu	spectrometry ftw!	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	!up rammy2k2	[15:36]
assbot	Voicing rammy2k2 for 30 minutes.	[15:36]
*	assbot gives voice to rammy2k2	[15:36]
rammy2k2	hey	[15:36]
rammy2k2	salut mircea_popescu	[15:36]
rammy2k2	:)	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	hi.	[15:36]
davout	"a nerdier man would have brought home air samples." <<< lmao	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	davout im kinda curious what the difference'd be.	[15:37]
asciilifeform	lol, could be something more interesting (washington too close to equator by x km; magnetic field crapolade; etc)	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	course you need a pretty large air sample to get anything usable at the ppb range	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	;;google washington dc latitude	[15:37]
gribble	Latitude and Longitude of U.S. and Canadian Cities \| Infoplease.com: ; 107 World cities by latitude: Things line up in surprising ways: ; List of cities by latitude - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (1 more message)	[15:37]
davout	mircea_popescu: the air sample thing kinda contradicts the discussion about how some stuff could be developed to work only in certain places, maybe that's the case for allergies too	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	38 53 77 02 vs 45.7597° N, 21.2300° E	[15:38]
asciilifeform	hell knows, maybe i need 50hz mains hum instead of 60.	[15:38]
asciilifeform	that's the problem with systems.	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	but that wouldn't reallhy be an allergy.	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	kinda need a protein	[15:38]
davout	asciilifeform: just be pragmatic, move to romania, there's this beagles pack that patiently awaits its master's return	[15:39]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate jurov 3 CoinBr, Coinroll, helped me transfer shares at times, kept me safe during a Bitfunder scare	[15:39]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 1 to 3.	[15:39]
asciilifeform	lul, me canine army awaits.	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 you speak english ?	[15:39]
rammy2k2	for shizzle	[15:39]
rammy2k2	sure	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	cool. so tell me about your aff manager experience ?	[15:39]
asciilifeform	;;rate jurov 1 live human!!	[15:39]
gribble	Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform gribble had a glitch so it went offline so it lost auth sessions	[15:40]
rammy2k2	well, i've been working in adult industry for some years, affiliates , dunno if it applies on what u need, but i was curious :)	[15:40]
ThickAsThieves	is wao's handle wao?	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 adult works. who've youy been working for ?	[15:40]
asciilifeform	;;gpg eauth asciilifeform	[15:40]
gribble	Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7	[15:40]
Naphex	rammy2k2: you run bitcoin-romania.ro forum? right same rammy?	[15:40]
rammy2k2	Naphex: yes :)	[15:41]
rammy2k2	i try to	[15:41]
rammy2k2	:P	[15:41]
Naphex	hey o/	[15:41]
rammy2k2	o	[15:41]
Naphex	get SSL working in that :)	[15:41]
asciilifeform	;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:be89bf44d68bee3cb3c28e4fe995f38c33062d50324afe88a6a293b4	[15:41]
gribble	You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7	[15:41]
asciilifeform	;;rate jurov 1 live human!!	[15:41]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user jurov has been recorded.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	i guess you two have some business to conduct ? :D	[15:41]
rammy2k2	mircea_popescu: streamate, money tree, chaturbate	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 when, for how long, gimme some highlightds	[15:41]
asciilifeform	;;rate mike_c 3 live human, cellular automata, jolly good fellow	[15:42]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.	[15:42]
rammy2k2	mircea_popescu: i quitted adult like 1 year ago, since i got seriously into this disease called crypto	[15:42]
rammy2k2	worked for like 5 years	[15:42]
*	assbot gives voice to Duffer1	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 when you started adult is more interesting. who were you on gfy ?	[15:42]
rammy2k2	yes	[15:43]
rammy2k2	still am	[15:43]
rammy2k2	:)	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	who ?	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	same handle ?	[15:43]
Duffer1	hello	[15:43]
rammy2k2	seXXXhub	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	Duffer1 hey	[15:43]
asciilifeform	;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 live human, ate synthetic food, jolly good fella	[15:43]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.	[15:43]
rammy2k2	had some troubles with zombaio, but who didnt ? :))	[15:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	rammy2k2 to be clear, were you working as an affiliate manager for any of these programs you mentioned, or simply used them as an affiliate ?	[15:44]
rammy2k2	Naphex: are u on my forum ? :)	[15:44]
rammy2k2	oh, simply used them	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[15:45]
rammy2k2	in what area u need stuff to be done ?	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	in the area where someone with 10 years' experience being an aff manager, and whom i can verify worked with programs i know and delivered results, is looking to start a biz.	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	you're not that guy, you're some guy that joined gfy in 2011.	[15:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything) << engineers call this 'Kansas phone problem' :	[15:47]
asciilifeform	http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/misc/funny/piss-moan	[15:47]
rammy2k2	mircea_popescu: yea, i guess i aint :)	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	:p	[15:47]
rammy2k2	ill idle around here if thats ok , i have a feeling we can have some nice chats	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	read the logs while at it.	[15:48]
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rammy2k2	how many bots around here ?	[15:48]
fluffypony	way too many	[15:48]
fluffypony	<- bot	[15:48]
rammy2k2	:))	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	lol. like 3	[15:48]
fluffypony	just a reasonably intelligent one	[15:48]
rammy2k2	cool, i always apreciate AI	[15:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: spectrometer << the one fellow who did get a little thorough arsework in the queue at Dulles with me, did in fact pack one!	[15:49]
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asciilifeform	phun phact: as a student, i once seriously planned to build a pocket gas chromatographer, to pick up gurlz. how!? to do this - exercise for alert reader.	[15:51]
asciilifeform	hint:	[15:51]
asciilifeform	;;google histocompatibility sweat	[15:51]
gribble	Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection - Wikipedia ...: ; Major histocompatibility complex genes, symmetry, and body scent ...: ; MHC genes, body odours, and odour preferences:	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i thought you were just gonna check if they're ovulating	[15:52]
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Naphex	hey so who was running bitcoincharts?	[15:53]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the point of carrying minesweeper isn't usually so you can jump on the best mine.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	tcatm	[15:53]
Naphex	;;seen tcatm	[15:53]
gribble	I have not seen tcatm.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform where's your sense of adventure.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	;;rated tcatm	[15:53]
gribble	You rated user tcatm on Tue Feb 28 12:40:39 2012, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: bitcoincharts fellow, sold me adspace..	[15:53]
asciilifeform	and see, if i had this in me pocket, could've found which of the twelve beagles would relay orders to my canine empire.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	that guy	[15:53]
fluffypony	asciilifeform: so like this http://vimeo.com/31688625	[15:54]
asciilifeform	no, this	[15:55]
asciilifeform	http://discovermagazine.com/1996/feb/scentofaman699	[15:55]
asciilifeform	etc	[15:55]
ozbot	Scent of a Man \| DiscoverMagazine.com	[15:55]
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asciilifeform	it was a good job that my net worth was a few zeroes short of actually building this bugger then.	[15:57]
davout	;;rate tcatm 1 bitcoincharts, been around a while	[15:57]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user tcatm has been recorded.	[15:57]
asciilifeform	because the device ended up working -without being built-	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	i know right ? i can taste it on them if we're compatible too	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	no need for test gear.	[15:57]
asciilifeform	how: the creature i now keep as a pet was intrigued by the idea, when we met.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	(says stan from within his carry on cage)	[15:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you're Carl Wilhelm Scheele, we knew.	[15:58]
asciilifeform	chemist hero who tasted everything he made	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	http://www.siliconhell.com/Images/humour/CatCarrier.jpg everyone has seen this i trust ?	[15:59]
davout	mircea_popescu: LOL	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	speaking of "Testing everything", my fav robotzi episode of all time :	[15:59]
*	asciilifeform spilled	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/embed/4z0WmWUT2rM	[16:00]
ozbot	RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube	[16:00]
*	rithm (~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:00]
asciilifeform	'...a detection unit contains three concealed cartridges, each of which houses eight mice. During their 4-hour shifts in the detector, the mice mill about in a common area in each cartridge as air is passed over people paused in the archway and through the cartridge...'	[16:01]
asciilifeform	http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927985.700-sniffer-mice-have-a-nose-for-explosives.html	[16:02]
ozbot	Sniffer mice have a nose for explosives - tech - 03 February 2011 - New Scientist	[16:02]
asciilifeform	i like to imagine that certain people are destined to end up in cartridges	[16:03]
davout	on an unrelated note : "Romanians, not so peaceful after all" -> http://i.imgur.com/nHTqQkA.jpg	[16:04]
*	kleinessteak (~kleinesst@ool-4578441e.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:04]
asciilifeform	speaking of which, does any in the pile of MIGs at TSR airport actually start?	[16:04]
asciilifeform	(finding where they sit - exercise for alert reader)	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	davout no ak47 :p	[16:06]
*	assbot removes voice from rammy2k2	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform those migs not anymore, because they've been gutted for parts.	[16:06]
asciilifeform	good, might be for sale then!	[16:06]
asciilifeform	lust.	[16:06]
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ThickAsThieves	Vault of Satoshi now allows real-time auditing it seems	[16:06]
asciilifeform	washington airport muppetron: 'sir, anything to declare?' me: well, just this...	[16:07]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: yeah noticed that	[16:07]
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fluffypony	quite nifty	[16:07]
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mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ?	[16:08]
Naphex	i think they just published their cold wallet	[16:08]
HeySteve	that robotzi show has cool animation, reminds me of this: http://amanita-design.net/games/machinarium.html	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	HeySteve yeah very competent team there.	[16:08]
fluffypony	Naphex: yep, no hot wallet details "for sekuritee"	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	o hey look at that, sorta dott. HeySteve is it released ?	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	Naphex so basically what is it, an address with a sum that signed a message ?	[16:09]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yep for quite a while, great game	[16:09]
HeySteve	yep, I think I finished that one	[16:09]
fluffypony	played the iPad one for hours figuring stuff ou	[16:09]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: they just made public their cold wallet, so people can check they have the funds	[16:09]
fluffypony	*out	[16:10]
Naphex	that it as far as i know	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	but.... maybe they made public MY cold wallet ?	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	<+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ? /// You can verify cold wallet and your own personal balance. You cannot verify hot wallet though ("security reasons").	[16:10]
asciilifeform	right, we can all write this kind of 'vault'	[16:10]
Naphex	yeah, don't think they signed it yet	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	well in that case they did exactly nothing ?	[16:10]
*	numerisTrade (~numeris@unaffiliated/numeris) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	they didnt sign it	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	?	[16:10]
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mircea_popescu	i dunno dood you brought the news. i was askin'	[16:11]
Naphex	people can check what balance 'their' cold-wallet has, rawr rawr, everybody's auditing	[16:11]
Naphex	:P	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	tryin to keep up with all the innovative innovations	[16:11]
ThickAsThieves	trouble is you can only see this if you have an account	[16:11]
ThickAsThieves	i do not plan to make one	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	it's almost as if thery go to a dedicated university to be stupid, these people.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	this has to be the result of training, methodically making the wrong choice on every turn is not something that can be explained by simple randomness	[16:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00098446 = 26.925 BTC [-] {2}	[16:12]
ThickAsThieves	it works out okay if youre marketing to stupid people though	[16:12]
ThickAsThieves	:/	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	well sure. marketing to people who went to the same school as you did always works well.	[16:12]
Naphex	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23m1de/vault_of_satoshi_launches_full_public_proof_of/ / http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/23m3xg/vault_of_satoshi_launches_full_public_proof_of/	[16:12]
asciilifeform	one of you told me that the fellow behind 'vault' (argentinian?) has actual brain. so does he keep it in a case, buried in the garden with kalash? or use it for other ventures? because 'vault' doesn't reveal evidence of its use.	[16:12]
fluffypony	afaik they're using this: https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-solvency	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform vault of satoshi is unrelated to that guy afaik	[16:13]
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davout	fluffypony: yeah, that's just a clever way to present the data	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	who's olalonde ?	[16:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0644536 = 0.2578 BTC [-]	[16:14]
davout	apparently some french guy that was smart enough to move to china	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	Specification	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	Work in progress.	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	lovely.	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	so can i just copy the html page saying success, much coin excess ?	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	since this seems to be server side	[16:14]
davout	mircea_popescu: still beats the "specification is useless because code" approach	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	https://raw.github.com/olalonde/solvency-verifier-extension/master/docs/screenshot.png	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	gotta love this.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	ok, this is a fucking scam.	[16:15]
Naphex	hehe	[16:15]
fluffypony	oh I take it back	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	so i get 50 btc from 100 users. i spend 4925 of these 5k btc	[16:15]
fluffypony	they're using Proof of LIabilities	[16:15]
fluffypony	same guy	[16:15]
fluffypony	http://syskall.com/proof-of-liabilities/	[16:15]
ozbot	Proof of Liabilities tools	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	each user sees "success! site is solvent! 25 btc extra"	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	fucking bitchslap these idiots with a trout omfg.	[16:16]
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fluffypony	https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-liabilities	[16:16]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: solvency-verifier << when i was a little boy, me brother said 'i shall build you a computer.' (he had one, a rarity, i was envious and annoying)	[16:16]
jurov	ThickAsThieves yes wao is wao	[16:16]
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asciilifeform	so next day he gives it to me	[16:16]
asciilifeform	a matchbox. push it, one side pops out, printed with answer!! 'CORRECT.'	[16:17]
asciilifeform	push other side, 'ERROR'	[16:17]
asciilifeform	'here's yer computer'	[16:17]
*	aadeseye has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[16:17]
asciilifeform	'the one you deserve'	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	how mean!	[16:17]
davout	it's spelled "compootah"	[16:17]
fluffypony	I would've complained about the stack size	[16:17]
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asciilifeform	i deserved this computer. and, apparently, some people today, still deserve.	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile back at the other side of mean : "Problem 4 : Permeating all the foregoing and sufficiently so to become a problem in its own right is the incredible arrogance of the recently liberated corporate slavebois working as independent coders. Seriously, start working on the BTC securities trade system of the future without ever having worked for MPEx, without having humbly presented your inept ideas to the most gra	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	ndiose master Mircea Popescu (ie, me), without anything like that ? O, why, because you’re a special little trainflake of brilliance and genius who can ? Really ?	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	Reality doesn’t work that way."	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	fuckwit without a clue makes "proof of solvency".	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	it works worse than the one bit matchbox computer ;/	[16:18]
asciilifeform	righto, both sides painted 'CORRECT'	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	should get fucking branded, roman empire style.	[16:18]
fluffypony	ok so it's an implementation of this: https://iwilcox.me.uk/2014/proving-bitcoin-reserves	[16:18]
fluffypony	which seems great in theory, but as mircea_popescu pointed out it's easy to fake	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	"I THOUGHT I WAS SMART. TURNS OUT I WAS JUST ANOTHER LITERATE IGNORAMUS"	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	in like inch high letters, one letter at a time.	[16:19]
asciilifeform	'i own proxima centaruri.' - 'ok, i'll believe. but first, wiggle it a bit. my gravimeter's ready, whatcha waiting for.'	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	70 of them, takes two months.	[16:20]
asciilifeform	*centauri	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves ok, you wanna talk about getting under my skin ? this shit gets under my skin.	[16:20]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's not a fair test. i own my cock, but it's also too big to wiggle.	[16:20]
ThickAsThieves	your hands have gone weak from lack of self service	[16:21]
ThickAsThieves	have your girl move it	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	it needs like three women working it	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	wouldn't that be the curse of all time.	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	"honey! i gotta pee! get honey and honey, let's get moving on this!"	[16:21]
asciilifeform	yah, but you can make it report for duty, prove ownership.	[16:21]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so far. from what i hear from older people however...	[16:22]
asciilifeform	herr mocsny had a good point about this	[16:22]
davout	mircea_popescu: lazyness would command to get a chamber pot instead	[16:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0009871 = 21.4201 BTC [+] {4}	[16:22]
asciilifeform	'It would be interesting to do a study on men who need Viagra to have sex with their partners. How many of those same men are able to wank off to porn (whatever variety they like, but most likely it would feature women from the most physically attractive 1%) without chemical assistance?'	[16:22]
asciilifeform	(mocsny - http://www.myrsky.net/danimal-archive-part-1/index.html)	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	chamber pot, chamber maid, chamber music...	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that'd be a good study. i'm also curious.	[16:23]
asciilifeform	speaking of chamber pot - anyone else's hotel room had... an Otohime!?!?	[16:23]
asciilifeform	last thing i expected to find	[16:23]
asciilifeform	;;google otohime	[16:23]
gribble	Toyotama-hime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Otohime - The One Piece Wiki - Wikia: ; Otohime - Yu-Gi-Oh!:	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	a what ?	[16:23]
asciilifeform	http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/shop/sound-princess-loo-001106	[16:24]
ozbot	The sound of a princess... on the toilet \| CNN Travel	[16:24]
Naphex	oh man, the tehnology nowadays, and i used to just turn on the water	[16:25]
Naphex	:))	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	aren't these gizmos like required by the classification board ?	[16:25]
jurov	i tried that switch but did not recognize any sound	[16:25]
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mircea_popescu	to get your stars or w/e ?	[16:25]
asciilifeform	yeah mine was dead too	[16:25]
asciilifeform	but i'm not a princess	[16:25]
ThickAsThieves	;;rate wao 2 Spreads bitcoin awareness, works with jurov (Coinroll, etc), friendly dood	[16:25]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user wao has been recorded.	[16:25]
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ThickAsThieves	"Study confirms monkeys can do math"	[16:27]
asciilifeform	waiting for 'study confirms man can do math'	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	and by math is meant, of course, arithmetics ?	[16:28]
fluffypony	the three Rs - Reading, Riting, and Rithmetic	[16:29]
ThickAsThieves	"GitHub co-founder resigns after investigation into harassment claims"	[16:29]
asciilifeform	there was, if i recall, suspicion that higher animals (e.g. dog catching ball) can crunch diff. equations - until high speed photography developed	[16:29]
asciilifeform	then it was found that creatures merely do 'bang-bang correction' when 'solving' the motion equations.	[16:30]
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ThickAsThieves	http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/21/google-is-researching-ways-to-make-encryption-easier-to-use-in-gmail/	[16:30]
ozbot	Google is researching ways to make encryption easier to use in Gmail \| VentureBeat \| Security \| by H	[16:30]
ThickAsThieves	(psp)	[16:30]
ThickAsThieves	oops	[16:30]
ThickAsThieves	(pgp)	[16:30]
asciilifeform	'integrating into gmail'	[16:31]
asciilifeform	next news:	[16:31]
asciilifeform	'google buys keybase'	[16:31]
jurov	google's unto embrace extern extinguish?	[16:31]
jurov	*onto	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	jurov exactly.	[16:31]
asciilifeform	seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	dude srsly ? cofounders split up over that horvath nitwit ?!	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	poor github. so who's replacing them ?	[16:32]
asciilifeform	the gurl?	[16:32]
ThickAsThieves	appears so	[16:32]
Naphex	didn't google launch gmail just too show ads on your mail context?	[16:32]
Naphex	what ads will run for encrypted emails? ;o	[16:33]
ThickAsThieves	Naphex i dont think so	[16:33]
asciilifeform	'products bought by other people having your private key...'	[16:33]
ThickAsThieves	the mail context came much later	[16:33]
fluffypony	Naphex: they still know what you're searching	[16:33]
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mircea_popescu	Naphex no, gmail was because yahoo sucked and they did mail.	[16:33]
asciilifeform	'google buys phuctor', news at 11.	[16:33]
fluffypony	I mean searching in mail	[16:33]
ThickAsThieves	google just wants you to enter their cage for the most part	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	many shepherds in backwards places (like romania) still use yahoo mail	[16:33]
fluffypony	although that'll be interesting - how will gmail search work if your mail is encrypted?	[16:34]
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mircea_popescu	fluffypony "encrypted"	[16:34]
asciilifeform	'encrypted'	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	it's just encrypted to stop the leaks wherein haxxors get the pm's email.	[16:34]
fluffypony	exactly	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	it's not encrypted to stop google reading it. it couldn't be	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, i already use encrypted gmail.	[16:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00098778 = 3.3091 BTC [+]	[16:34]
ThickAsThieves	then it aint really encrypted :/	[16:34]
Apocalyptic	seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap // i like the way you put it	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	the line is drawn at whether the encryption happens locally or on google servers, right?	[16:35]
Apocalyptic	even if it's done locally, you trust google to provide the right js script or whatever	[16:36]
asciilifeform	the concept of 'private key' is apparently high mathematics to some people.	[16:36]
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ThickAsThieves	isnt there already an opensource pgp mail client?	[16:37]
fluffypony	no clue	[16:37]
jurov	ThickAsThieves: KMail + Kleopatra	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves why do i need to mix the channel and the security layer at all ?	[16:37]
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mircea_popescu	this is exactly wrong. i do not need gmail involved in encryption any more than i need incentivised wot	[16:37]
fluffypony	Mailvelope does GPG in the browser (Chrome only, FF coming) for GMail	[16:37]
jurov	but nothing can open PGP/MIME stuff it produces	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	i just encrypt in gpg, everything the same way, and then paste the text in an email.	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	this works with all carriers, cause it's not their job to encrypt. their job is to carry.	[16:38]
jurov	so I just copy paste gpg encrypted clobs anyway	[16:38]
fluffypony	also	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	sanity is separating risks not bundling them.	[16:38]
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asciilifeform	it's not unlike toilet in the kitchen.	[16:38]
fluffypony	although probably 95% of my mails aren't encrypted or gpg signed because that would require educating all recipients on how to decrypt them	[16:38]
ThickAsThieves	it does seem a bit silly when you consider any mail client made for encryption essentially exists to remove the bother of copy-pasting	[16:39]
asciilifeform	why does your flat need both a toilet and kitchen sink?	[16:39]
asciilifeform	save the bother of walking	[16:39]
asciilifeform	save plumber some work.	[16:39]
Apocalyptic	ThickAsThieves, there is no bother too great for security	[16:39]
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ThickAsThieves	i always wondered why people dont piss in the sink	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i thought that's where the us was headed with the garbage disposal things	[16:39]
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ThickAsThieves	we had this habit when i rented with other dudes	[16:40]
asciilifeform	someone already sells toilets with 'garbage disposal'	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRppqaanECA	[16:40]
asciilifeform	waiting for a bright fellow to make next step.	[16:40]
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ThickAsThieves	even the bathroom sink is more suited for male pissing than the toiley	[16:40]
Apocalyptic	!up chairman_meow	[16:40]
assbot	Voicing chairman_meow for 30 minutes.	[16:40]
*	assbot gives voice to chairman_meow	[16:40]
chairman_meow	thanks	[16:40]
*	assbot gives voice to Anduck	[16:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00098778 = 8.1492 BTC [+]	[16:40]
chairman_meow	can anyone recommend an investment like just-dice?	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	just-dice.	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	no	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	what is just-dice missing that you seek?	[16:41]
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chairman_meow	ThickAsThieves: i want to invest in gambling sites. I just don't want to put everything in just-dice	[16:42]
ThickAsThieves	bitbet	[16:42]
ThickAsThieves	mpex.co	[16:42]
chairman_meow	thanks	[16:43]
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*	ThickAsThieves waits for "30btc to register, fuck that!"	[16:43]
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mircea_popescu	anyone recvalls that film where an aspiring actress ends up killing her baby ?	[16:44]
chairman_meow	ThickAsThieves: nothing that allows me to invest small amounts?	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	i think it was von trier maybe ?	[16:44]
ThickAsThieves	coinbr.com	[16:44]
ThickAsThieves	but maybe read and learn about bitbet before worrying about how to buy it?	[16:45]
chairman_meow	everydice.com looks like what i'm looking for. kinda shady though	[16:45]
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chairman_meow	heyyy mircea_popescu owns bitbet	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	only for the good stuff	[16:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0657999 = 0.329 BTC [+]	[16:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 5 @ 0.14 = 0.7 BTC	[16:49]
*	Blazedout419 (~Rogue@76-243-42-60.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	daisy diamond!	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	btw, great film.	[16:49]
ThickAsThieves	mostly mp just adds randomness to bitbet ;)	[16:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04300042 = 0.301 BTC [-] {3}	[16:50]
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*	assbot gives voice to Blazedout419	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves my contributions throughout my life have been nixing things and doing weird shit. in that order.	[16:50]
chairman_meow	hmm there doesnt seem to be something like just-dice	[16:50]
Blazedout419	lol love that painting mircea_popescu	[16:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2892 @ 0.0000694 = 0.2007 BTC [-] {6}	[16:51]
ThickAsThieves	bitcoinragazine censorshipped me :(	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	Blazedout419 the gauguin ?	[16:51]
Blazedout419	ya	[16:51]
Blazedout419	haha "paint me as hitler"	[16:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00098375 = 11.1164 BTC [-] {2}	[16:52]
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ThickAsThieves	i was trying to point people to check out bitcoinpete's expose on maidsafe and they didnt approve my comment	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	oh oh. yeah huh :D	[16:53]
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mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves nonegativityallowed.com	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10775477/Why-your-fingerprints-may-not-be-unique.html	[16:53]
ozbot	Why your fingerprints may not be unique - Telegraph	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	in other nonunique news.	[16:53]
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Duffer1	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/	[16:56]
fluffypony	lol, theymos getting called out on /r/bitcoin now - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23o0hs/an_rbitcoin_moderator_seems_to_be_a_wellknown/	[16:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0657999 = 0.3948 BTC [+]	[16:58]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.03 = 0.75 BTC [+]	[16:58]
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ThickAsThieves	"Vleisides' finances have been in question for the past several months," particularly because his residence "was recently purchased by BFL for approximately $400,000 in cash.	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[17:02]
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mircea_popescu	the noose tightens.	[17:02]
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Duffer1	are monarchs shipping yet?	[17:02]
fluffypony	don't think so	[17:03]
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Duffer1	sounds like this guy is going to pass away in prison like his father	[17:03]
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chairman_meow	am I still voiced?	[17:05]
chairman_meow	yeah I am	[17:05]
chairman_meow	something I don't understand with provably fair.	[17:05]
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*	assbot gives voice to HeySteve	[17:06]
ThickAsThieves	that it doesnt prove the operator isnt stealing?	[17:06]
HeySteve	wanted to mention earlier, Lavaboom looks promising for secure email: https://lavaboom.com/nerd-info.html	[17:06]
chairman_meow	ThickAsThieves: you read my mind!	[17:06]
davout	chairman_meow: no, he read the logs	[17:06]
ThickAsThieves	well in this case, it happens to be the first question i eve rasked in bitcoin	[17:06]
ThickAsThieves	to erik	[17:06]
chairman_meow	heh. so is there a solution to this?	[17:07]
Apocalyptic	"we do everything possible to make Lavaboom easy to use while keeping the service as secure as possible." HeySteve, you can't have it both ways	[17:07]
ThickAsThieves	no solution to date	[17:07]
Apocalyptic	or you end up with a thing that is neither one nor the other	[17:07]
davout	ThickAsThieves: so serious :-)	[17:07]
*	ThickAsThieves makes davout serious face and grunty retort noises	[17:07]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: surely the solution should be that all rolls are on a single address, no change addresses?	[17:08]
*	davout throws a branch of celery to ThickAsThieves to calm his anger	[17:08]
HeySteve	Apocalyptic, I'd encrypt myself for anything sensitive but this will improve things for people who can't do that	[17:08]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[17:08]
Duffer1	" PayPal global asset protection officer, told her that as of September 2013, PayPal froze BFL’s account containing $11 million and that PayPal received 6,000 complaints in total."	[17:08]
Apocalyptic	HeySteve, it will improve the illusion	[17:08]
davout	HeySteve: there is no "person who can't do that", there are lazy people	[17:08]
ThickAsThieves	fluffy, the problem is the operator has the key	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	so he can bet however he likes	[17:09]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: yeah, so when the pot is big enough he can duck	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	from any random address	[17:09]
fluffypony	and "win"	[17:09]
HeySteve	right, well the more cycles wasted on lazy people using halfway solutions the better?	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	it gets worse	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	he can do it with investor's money	[17:09]
davout	HeySteve: no	[17:09]
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HeySteve	unsure why not, doesn't it increase costs for spies?	[17:10]
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davout	HeySteve: does it ?	[17:12]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: so then what about a hot-wallet, lost roll amounts are sent to a cold-wallet, and the cold wallet is multi-sig, with a board of investors holding keys and the site operator holding keys. payouts happen once every 24 hours instead of immediately.	[17:12]
davout	fluffypony: running away with the pot/cheating -> different problemz	[17:13]
HeySteve	davout, in theory	[17:13]
mircea_popescu	Duffer1 and then gigaom harps about how coindesk is relevant in bitcoin.	[17:13]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, mp says he wants vehehes' head, mp gets vehehes' head. mp says he wants karpeles' head, mp gets karpeles' head	[17:14]
Duffer1	coindesk hurts my brain	[17:14]
mircea_popescu	and s' and s' and so on and so forth.	[17:14]
mircea_popescu	and ano i shall be off making bbq.	[17:14]
*	fluffypony ponders	[17:14]
fluffypony	davout: and this is why I don't gamble	[17:14]
fluffypony	at least not in the traditional sense :-P	[17:14]
ThickAsThieves	you cant remove trust from the problem here	[17:17]
ThickAsThieves	look at bitbet	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	you still must trust them to hold your coins and pay them out	[17:18]
fluffypony	yeah	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	that's not a problem necessarily	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	it's a service	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	the difference with bitbet is that the interests are better-aligned	[17:20]
fluffypony	yeah	[17:20]
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ThickAsThieves	so, it would go that you might be better off investing in owning a dice site privately, than being a public investor via shares or a shared pot	[17:21]
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ThickAsThieves	but then you'd also be the guy with the problem	[17:22]
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ThickAsThieves	of not being able to prove you arent stealing	[17:22]
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fluffypony	sure	[17:22]
fluffypony	I think it goes back to a discussion I had with someone the other day - he was espousing the values of the Dogecoin community, and how nice everyone is, and they don't have "scams like Bitcoin has"	[17:23]
fluffypony	so I pointed out that lending a buddy 200k Dogecoin today is worth a whopping $120, but Dogecoin's market cap is tiny ($44 mil as opposed to $6.2 bil), and would he trust his buddy to not run with those coins if they were worth $17 000?	[17:23]
fluffypony	in other words, operators may start off with good intentions, but when they suddenly realise they're sitting on a large pot of gold, are they still trustworthy?	[17:24]
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fluffypony	and unfortunately in the case of many an operator in the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency space they don't scale their control measures in line with the money they control	[17:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17664 @ 0.00098778 = 17.4481 BTC [+]	[17:25]
*	assbot gives voice to bitcoinpete	[17:25]
Apocalyptic	operational security is hard to improvise	[17:26]
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fluffypony	Apocalyptic: hence my #bitcoin-dev question on accounts, I was wondering how "auditable"/visible they were publicly (the answer being not-at-all)	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	-dev has accounts ?!	[17:29]
jurov	i think it was about bitcoin-qt accounts	[17:29]
fluffypony	jurov: they're deprecating it	[17:30]
jurov	electrum devs try to do accounts right, we'll see how it comes out	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	oh jesus those things.	[17:31]
fluffypony	but I had this little brain-fart of an idea of using accounts mapped 1:1 to an address on an exchange (turns out my understanding of "accounts" was incorrect)	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-was-written-by-the-retarded-part-ii/	[17:31]
ozbot	Bitcoin was written by the retarded, part II pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	there, have at.	[17:31]
bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: and in at #8 is the bitcoin foundation's annual letter lol	[17:35]
davout	jurov: ThomasV is working on accounts??	[17:36]
bitcoinpete	the twitter is 6x older than the blog. all in good time	[17:36]
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bitcoinpete	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23lt4p/neo_bee_the_full_picture/	[17:37]
ozbot	NEO & BEE: THE FULL PICTURE : Bitcoin	[17:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00022471 = 0.1124 BTC [-]	[17:37]
bitcoinpete	Brewster: "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left."	[17:38]
bitcoinpete	Andreas Antonopoulos posts on Reddit stating that “I was as surprised and bewildered by these events…dismayed that another bitcoin company had imploded amidst allegations of fraud and leaving many investors, creditors and employees with serious losses…all of whom betrayed by Danny” <	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	bitcoinpete ask derpopopulos how come is it possible that danny brewster fucked everyone in the ass, when he never said things such as nigger or put down women for being retarded ?	[17:40]
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mircea_popescu	maybe he should change his spiel from his current nonsense. apparently that doesn't help anything.	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	carefully selecting audiences for libertardism does not on the volume of data collected so far seem to produce better businesses.	[17:41]
bitcoinpete	lol i'll call into joe rogan's show tmrw and heckle derpopolous live	[17:41]
fluffypony	I'd pay to hear that	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	yeah srsly. we've all been sayin' hail marys over here like he prescribed, and we still got the clap.	[17:42]
fluffypony	do you accept Altcoin?	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	what gives ?	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	and is he paying for it ?	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	tell him some investors have been very careful to follow his instructions and they still lost money. what's he going to do to make them whole ? apologize ? pay out of pocket ?	[17:42]
bitcoinpete	afaik andreas is fuckin broke and just scrapes by as a conference gypsy	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	i know, but he does it in an offensive manner.	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	at least to my easily offended asshole sensibilities.	[17:43]
fluffypony	am I the only person who hasn't seen him speak / heard him interviewed / watched him in a video?	[17:44]
bitcoinpete	fluffypony: maybe, you're out on some lulz	[17:45]
bitcoinpete	he's all about "the other 6 billion," promoting scammers, and 2.0 baloney	[17:45]
fluffypony	bitcoinpete: every time I see a video with him linked to on /r/bitcoin it just seems like a link to a TED talk, and I can't be bothered to watch TED talks	[17:46]
ThickAsThieves	i have yet to watch more than 10secs of antonopoly	[17:46]
jborkl	The next day Brewster shocks the management team by telling them that the 5,000 BTC have…..overnight become only 140! "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left. I am going to the UK to find investors. I will send you the 140 coins left and also sell my Mercedes	[17:46]
jborkl	and Bentley and will send you the money to pay the March salaries and the creditors".	[17:46]
bitcoinpete	;;google antonopolous joe rogan	[17:46]
gribble	Joe Rogan Experience #446 - Andreas Antonopoulos - YouTube: ; Joe Rogan (Podcast Site): ; Andreas M. Antonopoulos Live on Joe Rogan Experiance RIGHT ...:	[17:46]
jborkl	Jesus christ, what a fucking retard	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony i think i saw a pic. kinda bald fellow.	[17:47]
ThickAsThieves	despite being hetero, i find him too unnattractive to look at	[17:47]
bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: hunchy too	[17:47]
ThickAsThieves	maybe it's just my spider sense	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	jborkl "5,000 BTC have…..overnight become only 140!" << there's some truth to that.	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	you see, toy exchanges love to inflate their figures.	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	due to the complete lack of transparency, and seeing how all havelock/btct/bitfunder/glbse/etc offerings are destined to implode anyway	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	they can get away with the pretense that they raise a lot of money.	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	then inexplicable shit happens. like this :	[17:48]
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bitcoinpete	https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/458619240791019521	[17:52]
ozbot	Twitter / bitcoinpete: Hey @aantonop: Are you making ...	[17:52]
jborkl	I am going to sell my Mercedes and Bentley <-- what a asshole	[17:52]
bitcoinpete	not my harshest rebuke… don't feel like tearing assholes before breakfast	[17:52]
fluffypony	bitcoinpete: I see not everyone appreciated your maidsafe criticism	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2014#595720	[17:54]
bitcoinpete	fluffypony: not everyone appreciates frank lloyd wright either, c'est la vie	[17:54]
ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log	[17:54]
jborkl	what is maidsafe anyway? keeps the maid from stealing your bitcoins?	[17:54]
fluffypony	"@bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a trashy review of a summer movie. Be more constructive."	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	it's like maid to order. a pun.	[17:54]
fluffypony	what a whiney little girl	[17:54]
bitcoinpete	jborkl: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/	[17:55]
bitcoinpete	fluffypony: blame the education system lol	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony lmao. when did some fucktarded bitcoin noncompany with no wot start looking down on trashy summer movies ?!	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	what is this, the reverseland ?	[17:55]
fluffypony	lol	[17:55]
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mircea_popescu	Your search - @bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a ... - did not match any documents.	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	can i has linkl ?	[17:56]
jborkl	then it should be madesafe right? I guess I don't get the pun	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	jborkl they're new in the punning business.	[17:56]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: sure gimme a sec	[17:56]
bitcoinpete	https://twitter.com/russellaugust/status/458501550277537792	[17:56]
ozbot	Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...	[17:56]
bitcoinpete	faster	[17:56]
fluffypony	https://twitter.com/russellaugust/status/458501550277537792	[17:56]
ozbot	Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...	[17:56]
fluffypony	oh there, beat me to it	[17:56]
*	fluffypony sends bitcoinpete a coke	[17:56]
bounce	no minute maid?	[17:57]
bitcoinpete	just had one of the guys in our meet-up group ask about maidsafe too. of course, a day after i blogged about it. just like he asked about bitgo a day after i blogged about that. noticing a pattern here	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	the bigger q here is who the fuck is that russel dood.	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	"Avid film and commercial editor, motion artist, and sometimes software developer." just sounds to me like unemployed young poor.	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	bitcoinpete the pattern being that peeps are trolling you or that peeps don't read your blog ?	[17:58]
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bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: very big q indeed. is being a "motion artist" like someone who takes jogs outside?	[17:59]
bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: not reading lol	[17:59]
ThickAsThieves	i exist therefore i artist	[18:00]
fluffypony	bitcoinpete: I believe "motion artists" practice an obscure form of yoga	[18:00]
bitcoinpete	fluffypony: not much for coke, got any wine?	[18:00]
bitcoinpete	fluffypony: probably one of the hot, sweaty kinds	[18:00]
fluffypony	bitcoinpete: TONS, take a trip to South Africa and stop by, I'll provide the alcohol	[18:00]
bitcoinpete	deal	[18:00]
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fluffypony	cgcardona_:)	[18:01]
bitcoinpete	reading part 3 of essences...	[18:01]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony i bet you it's just copied off the oscars. "the academy of motioning artistes"	[18:02]
fluffypony	hah	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	at the time in newyork young hungry cocksuckers worked like taxi cabs : you'd motion to them and they'd get to work.	[18:02]
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jurov	davout re: electrum multiple wallets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427617.0	[18:03]
*	assbot gives voice to cgcardona_	[18:03]
jurov	er.. accounts	[18:03]
cgcardona_	top of the morning bitcoin-assets! cc/ fluffypony	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	ello	[18:06]
jborkl	Ok, I read the website facts for Maidsafe and I feel dumb now. And if they are going to make a really bad pun they need a logo to go with it that makes you laugh	[18:07]
jborkl	https://www.google.com/search?q=french+maid+stealing+image&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y4RWU_b8D-HOyAGcg4GADg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=955#q=french+maid+theft&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=e3pqlcwPH_fDFM%253A%3BWnNPSumn-CUFuM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.uncyc.org%252Fcommons%252Fthumb%252Ff%252Ff9%252FFrench_maid_dingo.jpg%252F150px-French_maid_dingo.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmirror	[18:07]
jborkl	.uncyc.org%252Fwiki%252FSeptember%3B150%3B151	[18:07]
jborkl	nm the link hehe	[18:07]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.pfhub.com/u-s-investment-banker-james-rickards-says-tie-bitcoin-gold-avoid-volatility-580/	[18:08]
ozbot	U.S. investment banker James Rickards says tie bitcoin to gold and avoid volatility	[18:08]
davout	jurov: thanks, i'll inquire about it	[18:08]
ThickAsThieves	US doctor says tie noose to neck to avoid risk	[18:08]
bitcoinpete	ThickAsThieves: that noose is also for professionalism	[18:09]
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ThickAsThieves	maybe #b-a logo could be a sword of Damocles with a halo at the bottom	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	either that or a gaping asshole	[18:12]
ThickAsThieves	might as well make a whole crest out of it	[18:13]
ThickAsThieves	hmm wsj ssl broken	[18:14]
ThickAsThieves	https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/04/22/thai-tea-firm-ichitan-injects-a-buzz-into-thailands-stock-market/?mod=WSJBlog	[18:14]
ozbot	Tea Firm Injects Buzz into Thai Stock Market With Porsche Giveaway - MoneyBeat - WSJ	[18:14]
ThickAsThieves	next is BOGO?	[18:14]
ThickAsThieves	Sharpie of Damocles	[18:16]
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mircea_popescu	http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122290720439096481	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	moar like sharpie of patrocles	[18:19]
ThickAsThieves	jurov: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D /// Surprise!	[18:21]
davout	whoops	[18:21]
asciilifeform	;;google trading sardines	[18:21]
gribble	"Trading Sardines" - Bitcoin Forum: ; Natural Gas In 2013: It's Now A Trading Sardine - Seeking Alpha: ; "Sardines" are to Trade, not Eat \| Gold Eagle:	[18:21]
davout	;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL	[18:22]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.	[18:22]
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davout	;;rate jurov 3	[18:23]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user jurov has been recorded.	[18:23]
davout	;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR	[18:24]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.	[18:24]
davout	;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR	[18:24]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.	[18:24]
davout	weird, the message doesn't get picked up	[18:24]
Blazedout419	what do you mean	[18:25]
jurov	what? i see gribbles replies	[18:25]
Blazedout419	[11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change \| Old rating 3 \| New rating: davout > 3 > jurov \| this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR	[18:25]
Blazedout419	[11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change \| Old rating 3 \| New rating: davout > 3 > jurov \| this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR	[18:25]
Blazedout419	it shows	[18:25]
Blazedout419	the gribble spam chans shows all!	[18:25]
davout	okay, wasn't showing at first on bitcoin-otc	[18:25]
davout	seems good nao	[18:25]
davout	;;rate asciilifeform 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, very knowledgeable about engineering and beagles	[18:26]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.	[18:26]
Blazedout419	you guys know gribble has a chan that echos all ratings right?	[18:26]
davout	might as well do a little update round	[18:26]
davout	Blazedout419: no	[18:26]
Blazedout419	ya	[18:26]
Blazedout419	only gribble is voiced...and only shows ratings as added	[18:27]
davout	Blazedout419: no as in "oh really? tell me more" :-)	[18:27]
Blazedout419	#bitcoin-otc-ratings	[18:27]
davout	;;rate kakobrekla 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x	[18:27]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user kakobrekla has changed from 1 to 3.	[18:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3053 @ 0.000135 = 0.4122 BTC [+]	[18:27]
bitcoinpete	ciao for nao	[18:27]
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davout	;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL	[18:28]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 1 to 3.	[18:28]
davout	;;rate ThomasV 3 electrum, met IRL a few times	[18:28]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThomasV has changed from 3 to 3.	[18:28]
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davout	Blazedout419: thank you !	[18:30]
Blazedout419	ya	[18:30]
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davout	Blazedout419: learn something new every day!	[18:31]
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mircea_popescu	davout omfg you actually didn't know ?	[18:31]
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mircea_popescu	i thought sarcasm fo sho, you nooblet you	[18:31]
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Blazedout419	;;ratingsystem getrating Blazedout419	[18:32]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask Blazedout419!~Rogue@76-243-42-60.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net . User Blazedout419, rated since Sat May 18 17:05:13 2013. Cumulative rating 258, from 119 total ratings. Received ratings: 119 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 124 positive, 3 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Blazedout419	[18:32]
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jurov	looks like i should update my ratings too :)	[18:32]
Blazedout419	he does so many things	[18:32]
jurov	;;ident jurov	[18:32]
gribble	Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is not identified.	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	o look, coinbrazil has a mexico.	[18:32]
jurov	lol	[18:32]
jurov	it was supposed to be used for email, too	[18:33]
jurov	after some bastions are erected and moats dug	[18:34]
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jurov	!up only	[18:35]
assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.	[18:35]
*	assbot gives voice to only	[18:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00098881 = 3.002 BTC [+]	[18:38]
jurov	;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13ad09cbe0fc1cde274158d2b9e2d39594bb14c40d65609dcfa6224e	[18:40]
gribble	You are now authenticated for user jurov with key 677ABD62D0AEE7D7	[18:40]
jurov	;;rate asciilifeform 3 NSA delivers; met IRL	[18:41]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.	[18:41]
jurov	;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central; met IRL	[18:42]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user davout has changed from 3 to 3.	[18:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.528 = 1.056 BTC [-]	[18:43]
jurov	;;rate mike_c 3 <3 bitcoinalpha;we met IRL	[18:44]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.	[18:44]
jurov	;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 Biggest IDIFF investor, we met IRL	[18:46]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.	[18:46]
davout	;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also btcalpha <3	[18:47]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 3 to 3.	[18:47]
davout	jurov: thanks for reminding me mike_c does btcalpha, luv it	[18:47]
jurov	;;rate kakobrekla 4 runs several solid btc enterprises (bit4x,bitbet,panacea,...);we met IRL	[18:50]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.	[18:50]
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jurov	;;rate mircea_popescu 6 has pet manticores;we met IRL	[18:51]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 4 to 6.	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/	[18:52]
ozbot	A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	in my humble opinion, this is the most important thing written on the topic in the history of human culture, neatly dwarving adam smith and so forth.	[18:52]
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ThickAsThieves	just when i was gonna take a break from reading	[18:53]
*	assbot gives voice to benkay	[18:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40373 @ 0.00098287 = 39.6814 BTC [-] {3}	[18:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47728 @ 0.00098162 = 46.8508 BTC [-] {4}	[18:56]
ThickAsThieves	typo: marriage certificate. Were burning it today, all of it	[18:57]
ThickAsThieves	we're	[18:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.48246700 BTC to 6`890 shares, 36030 satoshi per share	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	thinking out loud, if something is not a medium of exchange,	[19:01]
ThickAsThieves	should it never be used as one?	[19:01]
ThickAsThieves	for example, time	[19:01]
ThickAsThieves	i mow your lawn so i can have you do my taxes	[19:01]
*	mjr_ (~Thunderbi@190.105.171.186) has left #bitcoin-assets	[19:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52664 @ 0.00098641 = 51.9483 BTC [+]	[19:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2536 @ 0.00098837 = 2.5065 BTC [+]	[19:05]
*	assbot removes voice from only	[19:06]
jurov	ThickAsThieves: that's barter and does not involve any medium of exchange	[19:06]
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ThickAsThieves	i suppose	[19:07]
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davout	jurov: the distinction of barter vs. other forms of trade is imho quite artificial	[19:07]
ThickAsThieves	i always sorta viewed mediums of exchange as manifestations of time	[19:07]
davout	a medium of exchange is just another economic good, one that is particularly liquid though	[19:07]
ThickAsThieves	time is all we really have right?	[19:07]
davout	why so ?	[19:09]
*	peterl (d8634153@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.99.65.83) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:12]
ThickAsThieves	hmm, it's the only resource everyone has? how one "spends" their time may determine their "wealth" ...?	[19:13]
benkay	you're born long time and short housing...	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves ty!	[19:13]
ThickAsThieves	it is inconvenient to transfer time, so currency is used	[19:14]
ThickAsThieves	among other inconvenient things to transfer	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	so if it doesn't satisfy #2, it's not a medium of exchange	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	case closed.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	i mean you know, you can view planets as stars, as in the case of venus	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	what you prefer viewing things as tho is not a point of astronomy	[19:15]
ThickAsThieves	well i did start by acknowledging it was not a MoE	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	time is definitely very important.	[19:15]
ThickAsThieves	maybe rephrased, would it be preferred to require currency in a barter	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	the problem of natural persons vs legal persons is that natural persons have constraints legal persons do not.	[19:16]
ThickAsThieves	instead of the man;s time	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	such as finite timespan, and a need to eat.	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	this makes corporations win out in any fair contest.	[19:16]
ThickAsThieves	how is it fair if one side has constraints?	[19:17]
*	surfcap (48314a5d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.49.74.93) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	a fair contest is a contest which does not distinguish between participants.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	!up surfcap	[19:17]
assbot	Voicing surfcap for 30 minutes.	[19:17]
*	assbot gives voice to surfcap	[19:17]
ThickAsThieves	ah, so it's fair because the person chose to compete	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	fairness in this context may not be what you think when you say the word.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	fairness is not a guarantee of equal resuts, even if you promise equal effort.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	fair is simply anonymity.	[19:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 750 @ 0.14 = 105 BTC	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	if the contest is running, and it dun matter who's running, he still has to do 100 meters, be it obama or goldstein,	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	then it's a fair contest.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	and from unrelated news : "Nothing makes you more powerful inside the joint than a strong grounding in currency arbitrage."	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin is the best thing you could possibly be doing with your time, not last on the list because even should it put you in prison, it will probably make you a ruler there, too.	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	a more absolute gift of power could scarcely be devised. "even in hell, they with this staff wield power" sort of thing.	[19:21]
dignork	mircea_popescu: person can win over corporate entity, think of kill contract for C-level staff	[19:21]
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mircea_popescu	dignork i don't follow ?	[19:21]
dignork	mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu \| this makes corporations win out in any fair contest."	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	i know what i said, what i don't follow is what you said.	[19:22]
ThickAsThieves	it always amazed me how much arbitrage opportunity existed on the play exchanges	[19:22]
dignork	mircea_popescu: just describing situation where person can win	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	how does the person win ?	[19:22]
ThickAsThieves	and what is the contest	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	if you shoot all the board of X corp, what of it ? they just hire new ones.	[19:23]
dignork	mircea_popescu: if the game was survavibility	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	a corporation is like a personified feud. it can even lay dormant.	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile banks adding interest to its accounts.	[19:23]
ThickAsThieves	so mp, with this purified definition of economy, how do we apply it to current situations for benefit?	[19:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06476363 = 0.1295 BTC [-] {2}	[19:25]
ThickAsThieves	like, we discovered quantum computing, now what?	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	well we apply it to understand what we do and do not understand better, and formalise both.	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	for instance, what does qc do ? does it attack the forum ?	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	does it attack the moe ? the wot ? how so ?	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	it can be fixed once we understand wtf it does.	[19:26]
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ThickAsThieves	hmm	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	before we do, it's just you know, fretting.	[19:26]
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mircea_popescu	and generally, it's a knife. it allows to cleave reality and the problems of reality into easier to manage bits.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	say, the "problem" of x. well... how mcuh of it actually is economical ? that much should be resolved economically.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	the rest is probably emotional ? or political ? or whatever the fuck else.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	suddenly reality is actionable, which is what makes great science.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	(and science great)	[19:28]
ThickAsThieves	so, it's basic first use would be as a test	[19:29]
ThickAsThieves	is this an economy or not, etc	[19:29]
ThickAsThieves	altough you do already claim it is the first real economy	[19:29]
benkay	good grief it's like everyone disappeared for three days and then came back and pooped it all out on the logs	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	which claim is that ? i make som any	[19:30]
benkay	STAHP FOR LOVE OF CHRIST	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	benkay shuttup and read biotch.	[19:30]
ThickAsThieves	"It is important to bear in mind however that Bitcoin is merely a tool, that what we’re truly interested in is creating - for the first time in perhaps as long as two centuries - an actual, working economy"	[19:30]
ThickAsThieves	so not as sweeping as i said	[19:31]
ThickAsThieves	but pretty broad	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	yeah. the objection there is not so different from tlp's objection that medicalisation of welfare.	[19:31]
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mircea_popescu	there's been a trend to economize welfare, and that just muddies up everything	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	not to mention the economization of politics, whereby politics are resisted or promoted on alleged economic grounds.	[19:32]
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mircea_popescu	most of the debate dealing with strictly uneconomic matters.	[19:32]
benkay	and the economic matters rarely have data on which to base claims.	[19:32]
ThickAsThieves	i wonder if this could be applied to mmporg guilds, maybe your Rift guild is missing a punishment gazette	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	it kinda has it, very rudimentarily, as the kick log say.	[19:33]
benkay	the takeaway for me from the piketty stuff (if anyone cares) is that claims about how money flows are all hot air and lacking in data.	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	o wow ThickAsThieves check this shit out :	[19:33]
ThickAsThieves	wait, but is punishment gazette the proper term?	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	i CREATED IT because we have an open guild bank where anyone can take out a stack, but you're not supposed to take out the WHOLE stack of things you can use 1-2 of	[19:33]
benkay	humiliation blotter?	[19:33]
ThickAsThieves	for isn't a positive note possible? and useful?	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	so i put a note on a guy's "officer notesd" place that hey, you took all our x runes wtf	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	and he put them back.	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	so there the fuck you go.	[19:33]
ThickAsThieves	hah	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	this theory is useful in design : how to make better mmorpgs.	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	or countries.	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	just like, you know, the original adam smith.	[19:34]
ThickAsThieves	but	[19:34]
ThickAsThieves	then it starts looking like, everything is an economy	[19:34]
ThickAsThieves	which you are saying is foolish already	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	anyway, a "gazette" is this ancient term of "where all the matters of record are published"	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves everything that moves has some economic part	[19:35]
ThickAsThieves	right but you call it punishment	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	much like it has an engine.	[19:35]
fluffypony	yeah, the issue is with the "punishment" part, not the gazette part	[19:35]
ThickAsThieves	so maybe i reword to, any organized effort could benefit from a properly implemented economy	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	punishment is any action upon an agent that happens irrespective of the will of that agent	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	which is why i'd say punishment is the proper term.	[19:35]
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mircea_popescu	you don't need me to rate me.	[19:35]
ThickAsThieves	i punish you with my appreciation	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	sure. maybe i don't want it.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	suppose pirate came back and went ;;rate ThickAsThieves 6 trusted guy helped me launder money	[19:36]
ThickAsThieves	i get what youre saying,	[19:37]
ThickAsThieves	but i think you might be choosing the wrong word	[19:37]
ThickAsThieves	no definition of punishment i know would include a positive rating	[19:37]
ThickAsThieves	whether you want to twist a positive rating into being a punishment seems to me, another thing	[19:38]
ThickAsThieves	you want your gazette to be impartial and permanent in and of itself	[19:38]
fluffypony	maybe actaque non persona is better?	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves well... so maybe the definition is broken you know ?	[19:39]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[19:39]
ThickAsThieves	says the guy who wants people to look up words and use them properly	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	but this is properly ;/	[19:39]
ThickAsThieves	and you are the dicstionary	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	well so what else	[19:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098314 = 10.2247 BTC [-]	[19:39]
cgcardona_	;;ticker	[19:39]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 493.5, Best ask: 494.5, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 493.5, 24 hour volume: 6797.65308914, 24 hour low: 489.77, 24 hour high: 504.9, 24 hour vwap: 496.41813442	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	gazzette d'actaque non persona	[19:39]
benkay	(dicktionary)	[19:39]
fluffypony	there	[19:40]
fluffypony	I like that	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	benkay fucktionary!	[19:40]
fluffypony	much better than punishment gazette	[19:40]
ThickAsThieves	fictionary	[19:40]
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mircea_popescu	!up VictorM	[19:40]
assbot	Voicing VictorM for 30 minutes.	[19:40]
*	assbot gives voice to VictorM	[19:40]
fluffypony	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets	[19:41]
gribble	Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.	[19:41]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	it definitely fits the crime...	[19:41]
fluffypony	;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets	[19:41]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.	[19:41]
ThickAsThieves	we are all born sinners after all!	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	briar patch gazette	[19:41]
ThickAsThieves	hey look, even my handle has added depth now	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	tbh i was tempted to outright call it a wot.	[19:42]
ThickAsThieves	thick as thieves	[19:42]
cgcardona_	wod web-of-distrust	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	the trouble is that wot is a horrible name, as it's not OF TRUST in the obvious sense, but in the other one. and it'd seem to discuss the actual web, rather than its notation.	[19:43]
ThickAsThieves	agreed	[19:43]
fluffypony	yeah	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	like the web is the set of websites, not the set of human knowledge	[19:43]
ThickAsThieves	the Trust part leads to noobs using it wrong	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	but the wot seems more the latter. yeah.	[19:43]
fluffypony	let's call it the Bitcoin Social Network instead :-P	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	the truth being that this shit's so bleedin' advanced ... we are without words.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	or urmom.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	we could call it urmom gazelle.	[19:44]
fluffypony	"I rated you a 2 on urmom gazelle"	[19:44]
ThickAsThieves	whatd they call those medievil books for documenting the deeds of kings, etc	[19:44]
cgcardona_	web-of-connections	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	i'm making urmom a better gazelle than the wot ever was, bish.	[19:44]
benkay	"the wot"?	[19:44]
benkay	"the what?"	[19:44]
fluffypony	u wot m8	[19:44]
benkay	"no, are you in the wot?"	[19:44]
cgcardona_	wotupwidit	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	like a chronicle ?	[19:45]
benkay	"i'm asking you what i'm in!?"	[19:45]
ThickAsThieves	maybe	[19:45]
benkay	"let's try this again. does anyone in the wot know you?"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	i guess this is actually it.	[19:45]
benkay	"WHAT WHAT?!"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	benkay in the batt.	[19:45]
fluffypony	benkay: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/307/189/6fe.jpg	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	.bait ed breath	[19:46]
ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/f4cc07dd827c081390b84292fc5a14df/tumblr_miug64DweK1r5bmaso1_500.jpg	[19:46]
ThickAsThieves	she looks like she just had a nice fart	[19:46]
fluffypony	Network of Awesomeness	[19:46]
fluffypony	NoA	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yeah not bad. bated fart.	[19:46]
benkay	"are you in the no?"	[19:46]
benkay	the know?	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	"are you in the no?" "yes"	[19:47]
ThickAsThieves	what's the password? what.	[19:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [MS] 150 @ 0.00135202 = 0.2028 BTC [+]	[19:47]
fluffypony	"the no is like the wot"	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	you know what is fucking criminal?	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	Opt Out	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	ATT sends me email about some privacy shiz and says "To allow AT&T to use your CPNI, no further action is required. "	[19:49]
*	lippoper1 is now known as lippoper	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	evil.	[19:49]
ThickAsThieves	so TOL again (thinking out loud)	[19:50]
ThickAsThieves	should i be able to add someone to the WoT myself	[19:50]
ThickAsThieves	like AT&T	[19:50]
ThickAsThieves	so i can negrate them?	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	this would be fucking ideal, but unfortunately it'd yield fragmentation.	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	the wot already has a massive zooke triangle problem	[19:51]
ThickAsThieves	this seems to be a problem to me	[19:51]
ThickAsThieves	the chronicles didnt require a king to auth	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	(and the fact good names aren't being squatted to fuck amazes me, and it is a testament to the fundamental economic ineptitude of geeks)	[19:51]
fluffypony	zooke triangle? google not giving me love	[19:51]
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benkay	seeking greater ev	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony a naming system can be secure, memorable and global	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	it is the chronicle that needed to be auth'd, or the rater	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	pick two	[19:52]
benkay	hey so i have my conjectures but how the hell does this work: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/this-tower-pulls-drinking-water-out-of-thin-air-180950399/ ?	[19:52]
fluffypony	ah	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	benkay condensation ?	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	it says so right on the caption	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves the chronicles didn't work that fucking well, either.	[19:53]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: maybe the WoT should allow rating someone unknown based on their public GPG key, if it is known?	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves lol i didn't click. i guess he's a slow reader.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony only one way to verify it is them.	[19:53]
benkay	mircea_popescu: what delta-t is it leveraging, though?	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	the problem here is that people interact with an entity calling itself at&t and using a non-gribble method of authing.	[19:53]
benkay	ground?	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	so now trust is created that's not wot-based. so in a sense old people are attacking the wot through being... stupid.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	this will go away on its own.	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	yeah, i think it's only a temporary problem	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	already good software is gpg based as a matter of course. so what if microsoft doesn't want to sign ?	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	but temporary is relative...	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	but basically att not being in the wor, makes them a scammer	[19:55]
ThickAsThieves	but we have no competitors in the wot either	[19:55]
benkay	(someone start a cell company!)	[19:56]
ThickAsThieves	lol, you have to actually tick a box on the opt out page https://www.att.com/ecpnioptout/InitiateCPNIForm.action	[19:56]
ThickAsThieves	it already has no other purpose	[19:56]
fluffypony	I see ICANN now forces you to verify your email if you list your actual contact details on your domain	[19:59]
fluffypony	at least, with the domains I registered today I had to	[19:59]
fluffypony	because email addresses are hard to create.	[19:59]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15421 @ 0.00098314 = 15.161 BTC [-]	[20:07]
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benkay	did pLambert ever sort out the signature of that testament?	[20:15]
TomServo	signed with a weak key, last I saw.	[20:17]
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benkay	was this the key that didn't match the wot key associated with the name?	[20:17]
benkay	and also	[20:18]
benkay	;;seen mrs tick ball	[20:18]
gribble	(seen [] ) -- Returns the last time was seen and what was last seen saying. is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. may contain * as a wildcard.	[20:18]
benkay	;;seen mrstickball	[20:18]
gribble	mrstickball was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: 107 PH.... nice	[20:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00098403 = 11.3655 BTC [+] {2}	[20:26]
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gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickblal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickblal \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickblal \| Rated since: never	[20:28]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickball: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickball \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickball \| Rated since: Fri Jul 5 18:09:54 2013	[20:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.5245 = 6.294 BTC [-] {2}	[20:29]
jurov	hahaha dat graph	[20:29]
benkay	infinity trust	[20:31]
benkay	what's the trilema line about business being insulated from the public?	[20:35]
benkay	mircea_popescu: ^^	[20:35]
benkay	early bitcoin post, talking about the 30B MPEx fee.	[20:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00098082 = 17.9 BTC [-] {3}	[20:43]
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mircea_popescu	uh	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	;;google trilema "poisonous offering"	[20:49]
gribble	Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: ; Strategic superiority, a saga pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; The Ukranian Trilemma - Canadian International Council:	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	that ?	[20:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ALC] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC	[20:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21093 @ 0.00098456 = 20.7673 BTC [+]	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/maidsafe-embroiled-safecoin-presale-mastercoin-pump-dump/2014/04/22	[20:53]
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fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: I'm so surprised, and I'm sure bitcoinpete will be too	[20:54]
fluffypony	he had such high hopes for the project	[20:54]
fluffypony	https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E	[20:56]
ozbot	Bitcoin Address 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E	[20:56]
ThickAsThieves	to all, would you be interested in free Altcoin stickers? note that this would involve providing a mailing address to me or an intermediary	[20:56]
fluffypony	wtf	[20:56]
fluffypony	4460 BTC so far?	[20:57]
kakobrekla	see, i told you retards still have ze money.	[20:57]
fluffypony	ThickAsThieves: I'd love some, can I reimburse you for them?	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	what is that addy anyway ?	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	i could provide a tip address after the fact or such, but no payment would be required	[20:59]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: the maidsafe address	[20:59]
fluffypony	from http://www.safecoin.io	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	it's funny how maidsafe will no longer accept mastercoins, the very platform they chose	[21:00]
ThickAsThieves	DarkMarket is a decentralised P2P marketplace which cannot be shut down. It can be joined by anyone and in many respects it looks rather mature, with identity and reputation rankings, seller pages, multisig escrow, private messaging and privacy features.	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	is it the first and biggest ?	[21:04]
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fluffypony	assbot: is it amazing?	[21:05]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[21:05]
ThickAsThieves	it's the taaki-est	[21:05]
ThickAsThieves	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHVqH8XO1Pk	[21:05]
ozbot	Airbitz & Libbitcoin Team Up to Create DarkMarket - YouTube	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha WHAT	[21:06]
jborkl	mircea , got last block, time since last bloc and unconfirmed added also :)	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	people are like their worst fucking punishments	[21:07]
ThickAsThieves	i actually have a saying	[21:07]
ThickAsThieves	The life a man leads is punishment enough.	[21:07]
ThickAsThieves	the context is more around calming people down when they get all angry about welfare exploiters and such	[21:08]
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ThickAsThieves	haha darkwallet gets a bsod during the presentation	[21:10]
jborkl	*rename darkwallet bluewallet	[21:11]
ThickAsThieves	!up only	[21:12]
assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.	[21:12]
*	assbot gives voice to only	[21:12]
only	mircea_popescu: not gonna fly, darkmarket?	[21:13]
jborkl	Darkmeat	[21:14]
jborkl	Darkmeet <- now that is a good pun	[21:15]
jborkl	stupid maid service	[21:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06445866 = 0.1289 BTC [-]	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	only seems improbable.	[21:15]
ThickAsThieves	well according to the Popescu Theory of Economics, DarkMarket is missing at least a public forum	[21:15]
ThickAsThieves	after that i'd have questions about privacy over the system	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	im sure they have where to whine at each other	[21:16]
ThickAsThieves	well they have private disupte resolution	[21:16]
ThickAsThieves	dispute*	[21:16]
ThickAsThieves	didnt mention forum	[21:16]
ThickAsThieves	but would be an easy add	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i hope taaki doesn't end up sending intenret hitmen to kill me or something	[21:17]
ThickAsThieves	just pay them more	[21:17]
ThickAsThieves	to hit him back	[21:17]
ThickAsThieves	CREAM	[21:17]
TomServo	lol	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99226	[21:17]
ozbot	A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	this is actually a pretty good q.	[21:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 33 @ 0.00757584 = 0.25 BTC [-] {4}	[21:18]
only	so decentralizing a marketplace is another shitty pipe dream?	[21:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06410013 = 0.1923 BTC [-] {2}	[21:21]
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ThickAsThieves	depends what your expectation/definition of decentralization is i suppose	[21:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16644 @ 0.00098898 = 16.4606 BTC [+]	[21:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.528745 = 2.115 BTC [+] {3}	[21:25]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5317 BTC [+]	[21:26]
bounce	to some people "decentralised" is a buzzword. "it must be decentralised!" -- yeah, sure. leaving aside the "how" for a moment (you did think that one through, didn't you?), there's the "then what?" as in how'd you use that in practice? did you just go from a single point of failure to N of those? how does that make the situation better? what if something goes wrong, someone rips you off, et cetera?	[21:27]
Naphex	i cant wait for decentralized voip with pay2relay telephony	[21:27]
only	ThickAsThieves: decentralizing the platform (similar to twister) and the escrow	[21:28]
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jurov	benkay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_%28condenser%29	[21:28]
ThickAsThieves	well you cant decentralize escrow	[21:28]
bounce	there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?	[21:29]
only	ThickAsThieves: www.bitrated.com	[21:29]
dexX7	bitrated relies on a third party as mediator	[21:30]
ThickAsThieves	the 3rd party is the escrow	[21:30]
Naphex	set up community tribunal	[21:30]
Naphex	for mediations	[21:30]
Naphex	for the lulz	[21:31]
bounce	that'll be a riot.	[21:31]
ThickAsThieves	wouldnt you rather have one person that is good at it, than 50 that suck or are ill actors?	[21:31]
only	ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough?	[21:31]
ThickAsThieves	that's not decentralization	[21:32]
ThickAsThieves	decntralization would be distributing the risk, not necessarily randomizing it	[21:32]
benkay	jurov this thing'd be a radiative collector then?	[21:32]
Naphex	a normal market with escrow/mediations and marketable ads is enough imho	[21:33]
ThickAsThieves	some things are worse off decentralized	[21:33]
jurov	yes. but it tihnk the numbers are BS	[21:33]
Naphex	yet we still dont have that	[21:33]
jurov	it can get few liters per night at most	[21:33]
only	ThickAsThieves: but how is it worse off by being decentralized?	[21:34]
ThickAsThieves	which "it" do you mean?	[21:34]
ThickAsThieves	bounce may have already summed it up though	[21:35]
only	ThickAsThieves: it = consumer-to-consumer marketplace	[21:36]
jurov	me? i was replying to benkays' water tower sry	[21:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06395923 = 0.6396 BTC [-]	[21:36]
ThickAsThieves	we hadnt discussed the overall decentralizing of a marketplace as a bad thing	[21:36]
benkay	;;gettrust only	[21:37]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user only: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=only \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=only \| Rated since: Mon Feb 17 18:33:39 2014	[21:37]
dexX7	well trustless cross-chain trading is possible (sort of) as well as colored coins <> btc markets	[21:37]
ThickAsThieves	it would involve dentralizing the software and content	[21:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06395923 = 0.1919 BTC [-]	[21:37]
ThickAsThieves	and then ensuring security and privacy	[21:37]
ThickAsThieves	which is where their plan is most likely to fail	[21:38]
ThickAsThieves	but i havent seen their method	[21:38]
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ThickAsThieves	they'd also need to provide same security and privacy to any host of the pieces of the system	[21:39]
ThickAsThieves	as in, if one person is selling weed in a jurisdiction he is not allowed, and you are host to that, you are now a target	[21:39]
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only	not to mention the kiddie porn	[21:42]
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ThickAsThieves	well that raises another point, if it's really decentralized, how is it moderated?	[21:44]
ThickAsThieves	not saying it HAS to be moderated	[21:44]
ThickAsThieves	but...	[21:45]
dexX7	what are you referring to by "it"?	[21:45]
ThickAsThieves	the market	[21:46]
ThickAsThieves	and its contents	[21:46]
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davout	!up only	[21:47]
assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.	[21:47]
*	assbot gives voice to only	[21:47]
jborkl	Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years.	[21:47]
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mircea_popescu	yeah what bounce said.	[22:00]
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mircea_popescu	Naphex> set up community tribunal << you know how well that worked, do you.	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough? << definitely not.	[22:01]
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ThickAsThieves	Blockchain Strikes Five Year Deal to Exclusively Manage Bitcoin.com	[22:09]
ThickAsThieves	(.info)	[22:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10437 @ 0.00098898 = 10.322 BTC [+]	[22:10]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2507 @ 0.00098782 = 2.4765 BTC [-]	[22:12]
Naphex	hehe	[22:12]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: league of legends	[22:12]
Naphex	the game actually set up a community tribunal	[22:13]
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Naphex	and its filled with the funniest things ever.	[22:13]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03074998 = 0.369 BTC [+] {4}	[22:18]
Naphex	so let the users post evidence and yell, and let the community decide :D	[22:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40673 @ 0.00098103 = 39.9014 BTC [-] {2}	[22:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 14 @ 0.00800009 = 0.112 BTC [-] {4}	[22:22]
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fluffypony	http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/dogecoin-memes-versus-reality/2014/02/24	[22:28]
fluffypony	" 75% of the total number of all Dogecoins are held by 0.75% of investors AND this inequity has been INCREASING"	[22:29]
dexX7	afaik the lol tribunal works quite well and reduced toxic player behavior greatly	[22:30]
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fluffypony	!up only	[22:33]
assbot	Voicing only for 30 minutes.	[22:33]
*	assbot gives voice to only	[22:33]
only	thanks fluffypony	[22:34]
fluffypony	no problemo	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	Naphex http://trilema.com/category/rota/	[22:35]
fluffypony	didn't the rota only have 1 case?	[22:35]
fluffypony	I would've loved to have seen more	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony it's actually a measure of their thing failing. in the sense they can't pass off the scamcoin fast enough for their dump-and-dillute engine to actually extract enough value out of the environment to keep the ball rolling.	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony yeah, only one case. i suspect now i built it the wrong way,	[22:36]
dexX7	what would you make different next time?	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	because YES loltribunals do work, not just on league of legends, but here too.	[22:37]
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fluffypony	mircea_popescu: that article really tears the coin apart...gets a little weird in places, but makes REALLY good points	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	dexX7 i think it'd look a lot more like bitcoin-assets.	[22:37]
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dexX7	the lol tribunal is so many dimensions less complex than "real" cases so i'm not sure, if it's possible to draw conclusions based on that	[22:38]
only	"bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?" - can't one hard code an escrow commission into a p2p app?	[22:38]
fluffypony	hard code can be changed	[22:39]
bounce	then do so. :-)	[22:39]
bounce	http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/coinfloor-mulling-plan-to-launch-new-bitcoin-market-for-institutional-investors-29676	[22:39]
ozbot	Coinfloor Mulling Plan to Launch New Bitcoin Market for Institutional Investors \| Forex Minute - Fin	[22:39]
bounce	then again, if it's p2p, and now you get to pay someone else for the privilege of hosting the service yourself, er, why'd you use the app at all?	[22:40]
only	you pay that someone for the privilege of using the app he coded	[22:41]
only	unless there is a free alternative	[22:42]
only	but why would anyone build one (your argument)	[22:43]
*	assbot gives voice to chetty	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	bounce lol. who the fuck is coinfloor again	[22:45]
chetty	http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/vkontakte-founder-durov-flees-russia-with-no-plans-to-return/498715.html	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	chetty wb!	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	people missed you in timisoara	[22:46]
chetty	thanks MP, yeah bummer I miss all the fun	[22:46]
bounce	https://coinfloor.co.uk/team says mark lamb, obi nwosu, amadeo pellicce, and "the team" (among them james "nefario" mccarthy as "senior developer")	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	all famous btc people nobody's heard of.	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99228 you gotta read this srsly i'm creaming my pants over here.	[22:49]
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davout	!up Oleanie	[22:55]
assbot	Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.	[22:55]
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Oleanie	;;rate davout 2	[22:56]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user davout has been recorded.	[22:56]
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dexX7	can you please voice me?	[22:56]
davout	!up only	[22:56]
assbot	Voice for only extended to 30 minutes.	[22:56]
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only	davout, dexX7 was already voiced, but thanks	[22:59]
dexX7	ah, only saw your query a few seconds ago and didn't really notice	[23:00]
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bounce	such spamm0r	[23:01]
bounce	lucky this isn't -otc then eh	[23:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00097978 = 26.4541 BTC [-] {3}	[23:03]
ThickAsThieves	<+Oleanie> ;;rate davout 2 /// haha davout only gets a 2 from his better half	[23:03]
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davout	ThickAsThieves: yea, teach your gf GPG, end up in an argument about how she only got rated 3	[23:06]
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ThickAsThieves	so by Mirceanomics, Bitcoin is an economy itself, right?	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum?	[23:07]
jurov	how is blockchain the gazette?	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	it is a record of all transactions	[23:08]
ThickAsThieves	including unsuccessful ones, no?	[23:08]
TomServo	I thought he suggested the WoT was the gazette, and this chan the forum	[23:08]
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chetty	lmao Mirceanomics, a new school is born	[23:08]
jurov	i understood the gazette as transaction history with human sematics	[23:08]
bounce	haven't really paid attention to exactly what putin said in response to snowden, but them russkies don't appear to engage in dragnet-and-store type surveillance. they know very well who they're after and they're good at it, if not very subtle.	[23:08]
ThickAsThieves	i'm applying it, not defining it tomservo	[23:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18893 @ 0.00098165 = 18.5463 BTC [+] {2}	[23:09]
jurov	bounce you saw they just openly snatched vkontakte?	[23:09]
bounce	yeah I read that link	[23:09]
ThickAsThieves	if the theory can be applied to the Sun and elements, surely applying it to the Bitcoin system isn't absurd	[23:10]
jurov	only and anybody else: if you have significant coinbr volume amd want voice, ask me	[23:10]
ThickAsThieves	i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists	[23:10]
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bounce	jurov's trade for ratings programme, now with volume discounts	[23:11]
jurov	>:D	[23:12]
chetty	ThickAsThieves, yup, nothing new under the sun. But this version has less trash attached	[23:12]
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jurov	but it reserve the right to decide. even tiberiusiv had some coinbr volume	[23:13]
jurov	*I reserve	[23:13]
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ThickAsThieves	jurov, also the blockchain does allow storage of text	[23:14]
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jurov	hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings	[23:16]
ThickAsThieves	mirceanomics speaks nothing of ratings	[23:16]
jurov	unless everyone agrees on special protocol for the O_RETURN text	[23:16]
ThickAsThieves	only punishments	[23:16]
*	sunshyne (sunshyne@89.238.166.14) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:17]
jurov	ooookay , so i'll rephrase specially for you	[23:18]
jurov	it does not allow punishment records, unless...etc	[23:18]
*	Oleanie (Oleanie@unaffiliated/oleanie) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:18]
ThickAsThieves	could you say that an orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx is a punishment?	[23:18]
jurov	!up sunshyne	[23:18]
assbot	Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.	[23:18]
*	assbot gives voice to sunshyne	[23:18]
jurov	nope	[23:19]
ThickAsThieves	why not?	[23:19]
jurov	how can you cause orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx on purpose whne someone scams you?	[23:19]
jurov	unless you're kncminer	[23:19]
ThickAsThieves	i'm merely trying to see whether Bitcoin would qualify as another echo to apply it to, not whether it fits a perfect example	[23:20]
ThickAsThieves	like the Sun example	[23:20]
ThickAsThieves	you wont get hydrogen reporting helium for scamming	[23:20]
*	assbot gives voice to Oleanie	[23:21]
ThickAsThieves	i think whether it applies might lead to other interesting things	[23:21]
ThickAsThieves	i've got this hammer now, and trying to sort out what it can smash and what it can build	[23:22]
ThickAsThieves	or whether it's a hammer at all	[23:22]
ThickAsThieves	maybe it's a ruler	[23:22]
ThickAsThieves	maybe it's a cloud of smoke	[23:22]
jurov	youre stretching it too extreme... then the blackhole is punishment gazette too	[23:22]
jurov	if the theory that hawking radiation carries information about whatever fell in	[23:23]
jurov	is correct	[23:23]
jurov	and you wait 10^10^100 years or so	[23:23]
ThickAsThieves	to give you an example of what i mean	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	say bitcoin is an economy	[23:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 106 @ 0.03112262 = 3.299 BTC [-] {4}	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	is the gazette itself also one? could it be?	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	same for he forum	[23:24]
jurov	i'd think about real world example like pirate's coins or gox coins	[23:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0325 = 0.13 BTC [+]	[23:25]
*	draino (~quassel@75-130-226-73.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:25]
Naphex	http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html	[23:26]
jurov	even if they managed to mark them in the blockchain	[23:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12294 @ 0.00098721 = 12.1368 BTC [+] {2}	[23:26]
jurov	we need extra-blockchain information to assess them	[23:26]
*	assbot removes voice from only	[23:27]
jurov	you won't get useful info whether to trust gox from only some "mtgox" tag	[23:27]
*	cgcardona_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:28]
jurov	you need karpeles' head on the pike plus public record what he did	[23:28]
*	kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[23:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4398 @ 0.00098398 = 4.3275 BTC [-]	[23:29]
chetty	karpeles record is pretty public	[23:30]
*	tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:30]
*	kermit (unknown@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:31]
ThickAsThieves	jurov i somewhat disagree	[23:31]
ThickAsThieves	(note i'm taking this position for sake of the debate, i have no conclusion)	[23:31]
ThickAsThieves	first, the theory doesnt require consensus judgment and punishment (head on pike)	[23:32]
ThickAsThieves	it only requires communicating the actions punishable	[23:32]
ThickAsThieves	"punishment" in its terms are merely individually given	[23:32]
ThickAsThieves	and then those would then be interpreted separately by any individual user	[23:33]
ThickAsThieves	i may decide mark's head didnt belong on a pike	[23:33]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[23:33]
ThickAsThieves	you may express you think it should be piked	[23:33]
ThickAsThieves	et	[23:33]
ThickAsThieves	c	[23:33]
ThickAsThieves	[16:26] <+jurov> we need extra-blockchain information to assess them /// do we? each address may function as a user/reputation	[23:34]
ThickAsThieves	and we do have a source for extra-info, the bitcoin software	[23:34]
ThickAsThieves	it's interesting to me to see how much the 3 separate elements would/could function as economies themselves, and how their traits might converge	[23:35]
ThickAsThieves	as in the gazette now wants to be decentalized, like bitcoin	[23:35]
mircea_popescu	o hey	[23:35]
chetty	if the judgement is individual isnt the choice of information source also individual?	[23:35]
ThickAsThieves	well just use the WoT for reference	[23:36]
jurov	okay, my another objection is that rating is not done at the same time as transaction	[23:36]
ThickAsThieves	is the gazette also an economy?	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	;;rate Oleanie 1 liked my rose	[23:36]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Oleanie has been recorded.	[23:36]
ThickAsThieves	jurov that's also not a requirement of the theory as stated	[23:36]
jurov	no that was my objection to using current bitcoin blockchain	[23:37]
ThickAsThieves	no requirement to be timely in your rating	[23:37]
mircea_popescu	bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum? << it's a very limited economy at that, but i guess so.	[23:37]
ThickAsThieves	if the WoT is decentralized, and has verification methods, signing, identities, etc, and bitcoin also does, they start to converge in their features	[23:38]
mircea_popescu	i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself.	[23:38]
*	kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[23:38]
ThickAsThieves	(bitcoin and the WoT)	[23:38]
mircea_popescu	hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings << 0 to 20, -10 to 10, no diff.	[23:39]
jurov	yes that's the protocol that must be agreed upon	[23:39]
ThickAsThieves	what might be the medium of exchange in the WoT? Rating points, right?	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves it has no medium of exchange it'd seem, because points are created and destroyed	[23:40]
*	tyrion70 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	bitcoins, you will note, are never destroyed. neiuther is gold.	[23:40]
ThickAsThieves	maybe just requires creative interpretation	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	neither are fiat bills (not in the sense of the physical bill, but in the sense of it being authorised, it'll get reprinted, and trhe bill is that trademark that spawns the authirisation)	[23:41]
jurov	blockchain.info's "taint analysis" is very crude implementation of WoT, perhaps?	[23:41]
ThickAsThieves	every user has 40 points they can work with, unto any other user	[23:41]
ThickAsThieves	you cant create them	[23:41]
ThickAsThieves	only allocate	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves this is what someone was proposing at conference, when i introduced fain	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	and how constants don't work	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be	[23:42]
ThickAsThieves	<+mircea_popescu> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself. /// one thing it reminds me of is your basic escrow deal	[23:42]
benkay	fain?	[23:42]
benkay	mircea_popescu: ^^	[23:42]
*	neilol (44c2ceb5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.194.206.181) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	benkay for years before and some time during bitcoin i had a romanian language digg style thing.	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	it had no moderators and no spam.	[23:43]
benkay	no wai	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	yes wai.	[23:43]
benkay	perpetuum mobile	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	it drove most of .ro traffic at some point.	[23:43]
benkay	wow well extravagant claims etc. how'd you do that?	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	prop sauce, but basically it leveraged individual actions to evaluate everyone else's.	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	not so hard to distinguish machines from humans if your machine has a stable with many humans	[23:44]
ThickAsThieves	<+mircea_popescu> so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be /// well i can accumulate points no? and at any given time, a maximum amount can be had, and every time a user joins anew, the system inflates to accommodate	[23:45]
jurov	i'd extend a punishment gazette with 3. shared protocol and then maybe public forum can be simplified away	[23:45]
benkay	mircea_popescu: i assume the normal 'upvoting rings' developed and existed?	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ?	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	benkay not effectually, no.	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	let me dig some pretty graphs.	[23:45]
ThickAsThieves	my rating points are held by every user that hasnt given them to me yet	[23:46]
ThickAsThieves	if they take them away, they still exist	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2012/activitatea-utilizatorilor-pe-fain/	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	there.	[23:46]
ozbot	Activitatea utilizatorilor pe fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[23:46]
benkay	pretty indeed.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2011/sa-desenam-cu-fain/ same thing, earlier	[23:47]
ozbot	Sa desenam cu fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[23:47]
benkay	are collusive rings in these content farms necessarily a bad thing?	[23:47]
*	Evolyn has quit ()	[23:47]
ThickAsThieves	it's not a typical economy, cuz it has allocation idiosyncracies, but i'm not sure if that disqualifies it	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2011/istoria-unui-proiect-online/ user activity.	[23:48]
ozbot	Istoria unui proiect online pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	peaks at 10k comments/day	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	benkay no. they're only bad if they dominate	[23:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00098529 = 23.4006 BTC [+] {2}	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	otherwise they form and dissolve naturally.	[23:48]
*	cgcardona_ (~cgcardona@cpe-75-85-131-223.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:48]
ThickAsThieves	in fact, don't people do things at times strictly for the points?	[23:49]
benkay	what drives formation/dissolution vs dominion?	[23:49]
*	tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:49]
jurov	!up cgcardona_	[23:49]
*	assbot removes voice from sunshyne	[23:49]
assbot	Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.	[23:49]
*	assbot gives voice to cgcardona_	[23:49]
jurov	!up tyrion70	[23:50]
assbot	Voicing tyrion70 for 30 minutes.	[23:50]
*	assbot gives voice to tyrion70	[23:50]
cgcardona_	thank you	[23:50]
*	Evolyn (~Evolyn@2a02:8071:4282:9500:1172:d679:251a:c147) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:51]
ThickAsThieves	furthermore, <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ? /// where is it in your theory that this matters?	[23:51]
ThickAsThieves	also, i'm with jurov, i see some weakness in the gazette/forum definitions and separation	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	benkay that's ocmplicated.	[23:53]
ThickAsThieves	first, the gazette does not require identification in your definition	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves 3.it conserves over time.	[23:53]
ThickAsThieves	however psuedononymous, it may be, identification is required, right?	[23:53]
chetty	oh hey, they up the ante on why btc is bad	[23:53]
chetty	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609971/Disturbing-new-internet-child-abuse-sees-toddlers-raped-burned-live-webcam-paedophiles-use-Bitcoin-stop-traced-warns-police-chief.html	[23:53]
ozbot	Europol director warns of paedophiles using Bitcoin to view webcams \| Mail Online	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15979 @ 0.00097873 = 15.6391 BTC [-] {2}	[23:53]
cgcardona_	wow thats some url slug	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	chetty daily mail raped babies ?	[23:54]
*	tyrion70 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	outrageous. i hope the police catches up with them and gives them what for.	[23:54]
ThickAsThieves	hmm maybe i dont fully understand the conserving over time aspect	[23:54]
ThickAsThieves	you mean i can accumulate it?	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	you familiar with the conservation of energy ?	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	even if you expend it, it still goes somewhere.	[23:55]
ThickAsThieves	ah	[23:55]
ThickAsThieves	but didnt i cover that?	[23:55]
Naphex	http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26707586	[23:55]
ozbot	BBC News - Nigeria: Police probe Ibadan 'house of horror'	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	well, if i unrate you now, where do the points go ?	[23:56]
ThickAsThieves	you took them from me	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	"About 150 soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), based in Italy, are heading to each of four countries — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia — in rotational deployments that the Pentagon says will be sustained until further notice." herp.	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves well so where are they ?	[23:56]
*	wolverineks has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:57]
ThickAsThieves	the system doesnt need to track them visibly because the system allocates for each ouser in it	[23:57]
ThickAsThieves	for every user, every other user gets 20 neg coins and 20 pos coins	[23:57]
ThickAsThieves	each user may spend them on each other specific user only	[23:57]
ThickAsThieves	under the arrangement that you may also take them back	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	this breaks conservation.	[23:58]
ThickAsThieves	it doesnt just mean it's an economy with special rules?	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	it means it has no moe	[23:59]
ThickAsThieves	i mean i could certainly barter for rating points	[23:59]
ThickAsThieves	i could perform services for pos coins, etc	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	but your proposition was that the rating points are the moe.	[23:59]

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