Forum logs for 16 Feb 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
deanclkclk thing is..I'm creating an exchange i'm kinda limited to okpay to do this [00:00]
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Duffer1 ;;gpg info deanclkclk [00:00]
gribble No such user registered. [00:00]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk perhaps you've not thought this though that much. [00:01]
deanclkclk what do you mean? [00:01]
deanclkclk especially when you get an also get a bank account [00:01]
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deanclkclk well someone else on my team is looking into it but, it something that's been nagging my conscious [00:01]
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deanclkclk conscience * [00:02]
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Duffer1 btc/usd exchange? [00:02]
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deanclkclk yes Duffer1 [00:03]
deanclkclk and btc/eur [00:03]
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deanclkclk ltc also alsong with btc/ltc [00:03]
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mircea_popescu deanclkclk i guess as mpoe-pr would say, see here : [00:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12936 @ 0.00086847 = 11.2345 BTC [-] {3} [00:05]
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deanclkclk thx for that mircea_popescu [00:10]
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mircea_popescu people with millions of dollars in backing failed at what you propose. [00:10]
deanclkclk but, what's WOT by the way? [00:11]
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mircea_popescu it's not something to be started to fill an idle hour in the afternoon, like wittling. [00:11]
deanclkclk I know mircea_popescu [00:11]
mircea_popescu this thing [00:11]
Duffer1 Web Of Trust [00:11]
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deanclkclk I have a value added propition mircea_popescu nad what I'm bring is like high frequency trading [00:11]
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deanclkclk buyer wants more ..seller wants less...the trading will be automated where we try to get the best price for both buyer and seller [00:12]
deanclkclk understand? [00:12]
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deanclkclk and in some cases..they can get more dollars in the case of the trader and more btc in the case of the buyer [00:12]
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benkay nope. do not understand. i must be idiots. [00:13]
mircea_popescu do you by any chance misrepresent "hft" to mean "a simulacra of amazon's autobid function" ? [00:13]
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Duffer1 you propose to allow buy/sell a price different than quoted? [00:13]
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deanclkclk the buyer puts his max bid and the seller puts there minium ask price [00:14]
deanclkclk the algorithm goes through the list and find the best price for both buyer and seller Duffer1 [00:14]
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benkay YOU GUYS [00:14]
Duffer1 how is that different than a regular order book [00:14]
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deanclkclk so the seller might get more fiat and the buyer might get more btc [00:14]
mircea_popescu it presumably doesn't display actual values. [00:15]
deanclkclk it does [00:15]
deanclkclk it will show what actually traded [00:15]
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Duffer1 dark pool, but not dark [00:15]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk you may not like to hear this, but nevertheless it's a fact : you're really not able to do this. for your own sake do it for something light, like a play crypto. [00:15]
mircea_popescu do doge/alt/ltc/we. [00:15]
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deanclkclk why? [00:15]
mircea_popescu because you're too stupid. [00:15]
deanclkclk why do you suggest that? [00:15]
deanclkclk why am I stupid? [00:15]
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mircea_popescu well there are many fundamental points you're unable to consider. [00:16]
deanclkclk like what? [00:16]
Duffer1 when you lose everyone's money for them it will hurt more than when you lose everyone's memecoin [00:16]
deanclkclk what's the main one? [00:16]
mircea_popescu i would imagine it's a combination of youth and whatever else. [00:16]
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deanclkclk how am I loosing people's money when I said ..the objective is for folks to get more [00:16]
benkay well it's a zero sum game, homie [00:17]
deanclkclk a trade...we find the lease expensive ask and the highest bid and trade [00:17]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06899999 = 0.345 BTC [+] [00:17]
deanclkclk are u that fucking stupid? [00:17]
benkay so this is not an open problem [00:17]
Duffer1 you clearly don't understand enough of what's involved to be put yourself in a position of responsibility for other's money [00:17]
benkay [00:17]
Duffer1 other's fortunes [00:17]
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deanclkclk as oppose just stating random things..state in what instance I'm a "too fucking stupid" [00:18]
deanclkclk what area? [00:18]
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Duffer1 ok what's your area of expertise? [00:18]
benkay deanclkclk: matching the lowest ask and highest bid is the baseline for an exchange. [00:18]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk don't take it personally. i have no particular interest in the matter. [00:18]
deanclkclk I made 2 or 3 statements and all of a sudden...I'm too fucking stupid [00:18]
benkay it is completely unspecial. [00:18]
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mircea_popescu well yes. we can see what statements you make and compare. [00:18]
deanclkclk benkay: have u traded on BTC-e? [00:19]
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benkay deanclkclk: why does this matter? [00:19]
deanclkclk basically I just get the quantity I ask for [00:19]
deanclkclk well I bid [00:19]
deanclkclk I don't get more [00:19]
mircea_popescu >< [00:19]
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mircea_popescu why would you want to get more ? [00:19]
benkay deanclkclk: you're unfortunately trading on exchanges run by derpy web developers that don't match orders like professionals, and so you come to the conclusion that order matching is a) a hard problem and b) something you're qualified to handle. [00:20]
Duffer1 how could you get more? [00:20]
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deanclkclk why wouldn't anyone want to get more BTC if the purpose of the site is to find the least ask trade [00:20]
pankkake as far as I know btc-e does things properly [00:20]
benkay furthermore, the problem you're trying to solve is not actually a problem. it's a flaw in your perceptions of trading. [00:20]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk because people generally want to get what they want to get. [00:20]
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deanclkclk lol [00:20]
deanclkclk ok [00:20]
Duffer1 noooo not ok [00:20]
deanclkclk u people must be programmers [00:20]
mircea_popescu actually, no. [00:20]
Duffer1 now you're going to walk off and do it anyways, stay and talk [00:21]
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mircea_popescu the only programmer here is benkay and we only keep him around cause his gf. [00:21]
benkay oi [00:21]
mircea_popescu lol [00:21]
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deanclkclk people want to get what they ask for? that doesn't make any business sense [00:21]
deanclkclk people generally likes to leverage [00:21]
mircea_popescu so when i order a wire of X dollars, [00:21]
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deanclkclk so I don't know what planet u people are from [00:22]
mircea_popescu the recipient should get X+k dollars ? [00:22]
deanclkclk yes [00:22]
deanclkclk that ask [00:22]
mircea_popescu well, i suppose it must be a different planet. [00:22]
deanclkclk the bid...might get more say BTC [00:22]
Duffer1 dat variety speak [00:22]
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Duffer1 much learning for you young padawan [00:22]
pankkake but if you want more, just ask for more. your ask might not get fully filled, so? that was the price you wanted [00:22]
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deanclkclk it's not guaranteed but, hte bare minimum they get what the actually bid and ask were [00:22]
mircea_popescu maybe there could be a coin dedicated to this concept. [00:23]
mircea_popescu each transfer yields more coins i nthe recipient address than were sent [00:23]
mircea_popescu this defo beats bernankoin [00:23]
pankkake I mean bid, lol [00:23]
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deanclkclk you know how market works...prices change on the fly [00:23]
mircea_popescu pankkake he just outsmarted your BNK! [00:23]
deanclkclk and trades can happen ever second [00:23]
pankkake *BEK [00:23]
mircea_popescu o my bad [00:23]
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deanclkclk so if I put this bid and the price sinks...I'm would be a happy camper [00:23]
Duffer1 a futures exchange? [00:24]
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pankkake you'd have to know the future indeed [00:24]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk so you want to specify orders by the other part of the pair, basically ? [00:24]
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mircea_popescu sells specified in dollars, buys in bitcoin for the btc/usd pair ? [00:24]
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deanclkclk mircea_popescu: again..attention [00:24]
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deanclkclk by the bare minimum...the traders would get what they ask for....X dollars for the seller and X BTC for the buyer [00:25]
deanclkclk but, there could be a case where Seller and Buyer gets more depending on the trade [00:25]
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deanclkclk the purpose is to find the highest bid and the lowest ask [00:26]
pankkake you should write a proof of concept (without any actual monies involved) [00:26]
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deanclkclk I'm already doing that [00:26]
mircea_popescu hence my advice to use play coins. [00:26]
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pankkake well then perhaps I'll understand your proposal [00:26]
deanclkclk so for instance...I put 100 for 1 BTC and I find a ask for 95 [00:26]
mircea_popescu if your idea blows up you won't be hung out to dry. [00:26]
benkay no, you will. [00:26]
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deanclkclk I save $5 dollars and I can use that 5 dollars to get an additional satososhi [00:27]
mircea_popescu ok, but not with a spiked stake in your anus [00:27]
deanclkclk it's small but it's incremental :) [00:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.07000003 = 0.63 BTC [-] {4} [00:27]
mircea_popescu o look, btctalk is down [00:27]
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pankkake it's not. they banned you? [00:27]
deanclkclk now tell I stupid? [00:27]
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Namworld How do you find such lower ask/higher bid so buyer/seller gets more? All bids/asks are all already there when someone place an order. [00:28]
deanclkclk I'm already using testnet folks [00:28]
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pankkake if I put 100 for 1 BTC and there is an ask at 95, I'm already getting that bitcoin at 95 [00:28]
mircea_popescu [00:28]
ozbot Teen kills self after streaking backlash | New York Post [00:28]
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mircea_popescu key words " alabama law" [00:28]
pankkake almost everywhere [00:28]
Jere_Jones You plan on doing this *on* the blockchain? [00:28]
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deanclkclk all exchanges? pankkake ? [00:28]
Namworld Yes [00:29]
deanclkclk so what happens with the $5 dollars [00:29]
mircea_popescu pankkake nm back up [00:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.13199988 = 0.66 BTC [+] {3} [00:29]
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Namworld You don't spend that $5 because there is a ask lower than 100 per BTC at 95. [00:29]
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pankkake you end up with $5 and 1 BTC [00:29]
Namworld That's what happen. You get 5 dollar + a BTC [00:29]
deanclkclk so why not find another satoshi for the 5 bucks? [00:30]
Duffer1 or if you do a market buy, the 5$ buys from the next order inline [00:30]
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deanclkclk well that's not my experience with other exchanges folks...sorry [00:30]
deanclkclk maybe I was missing something [00:30]
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Namworld You CAN select to buy 100 dollar of BTC. The exchange already finds the lowest asks and gets as much BTC as possible. [00:30]
Namworld You can select amount to buy/sell in dollar or in BTC already. [00:31]
Namworld You already get the best ask/bid. [00:31]
Jere_Jones market order vs limit order [00:31]
Namworld That's how all exchanges already work. [00:31]
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ThickAsThieves time to ditch OpenEx: [00:31]
ThickAsThieves courtesy of Apocalyptic [00:31]
pankkake basically [00:31]
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ozbot Order (exchange) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [00:31]
pankkake omgizz! thanks Apocalyptic [00:31]
mircea_popescu curious if BingoBoingo will support it [00:31]
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Apocalyptic hope you guys like this order matching better heh [00:32]
pankkake the current slowness of ATC blocks will make arbitrage annoying [00:32]
BingoBoingo Sure, will take a few hours to move out. That's usually the lag on withdrawals. [00:32]
Apocalyptic I heard a diff retarget is in 33 blocks [00:32]
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mircea_popescu funny thing is, the r3wt guy will never know what exactly he missed by not being part of things. [00:32]
pankkake try 1000 more blocks [00:33]
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ThickAsThieves really? [00:33]
ThickAsThieves fuuu [00:33]
mircea_popescu pankkake how long are blocks atm, 10 mns ? [00:33]
ThickAsThieves like 50m [00:33]
pankkake yeah I think it's 2016 blocks, of 512 sec blocks [00:33]
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deanclkclk can you cancel a trade that's partially filled on these exchanges? [00:33]
Namworld Yes [00:33]
Duffer1 every exchange i've used ya [00:33]
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deanclkclk which ones? [00:34]
pankkake all of them [00:34]
deanclkclk lie [00:34]
Namworld MtGox, Bitstamp, BTC-E, you name it. [00:34]
ThickAsThieves dean we dont need more exchanges [00:34]
Namworld I don't know of one that doesn't. [00:34]
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Duffer1 campbx/gox/btce/mcxnow [00:34]
pankkake look, if you don't allow cancelling, you're going to end up with nonsense very quickly [00:34]
Duffer1 note that half of those are dead, and the others are questionably/likely scams [00:34]
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deanclkclk I've used btc-e and no way in hell I could cancel a trade that was partially filled [00:35]
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Apocalyptic deanclkclk, i could [00:35]
Duffer1 it's highlighted in yellow in the order book and all open positions are visible below the order book, scroll down [00:35]
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mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves at the rate we're going we soon might. you know the joke with the cadet and his horse? [00:35]
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Duffer1 yellow or grey i forget, it's been a while, when you mouse over it you can cancel [00:36]
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deanclkclk so must of u guys are traders? [00:36]
BingoBoingo deanclkclk: Not at all [00:36]
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Duffer1 hell no lol [00:36]
mircea_popescu we are the secret iluminati club of bitcoin. [00:36]
mircea_popescu nice to meet you. [00:37]
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deanclkclk so if you are not traders or programmers...what the fuck is that profession? [00:37]
pankkake I'm an eternal curious finance noob [00:37]
Duffer1 I'm a clinger that lost it all and hangs around for I don't know why [00:37]
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Namworld Some in here are traders I suppose. Other are business owners. [00:37]
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Namworld Others are just watching for info/news. [00:38]
Duffer1 the Haters Club, now with Bitcoin [00:38]
ThickAsThieves i'm a serial journeyman [00:38]
mircea_popescu you're all jews. [00:38]
pankkake if only being a hater was a job [00:38]
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Duffer1 seriously [00:38]
Duffer1 well mpoe-pr, so jealous :( [00:39]
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mircea_popescu i think most people go into the press trying to make a job out of it. [00:39]
mircea_popescu ahahaha right-o! [00:39]
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deanclkclk so for traders here..what do you guys would want out of an exchange that your currently not getting? [00:40]
mircea_popescu actual credibility. [00:40]
Duffer1 theft insurance [00:40]
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mircea_popescu would be nice but it's too onerous to hope for. [00:40]
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jedunnigan!*@* added to ignore list. [00:41]
mircea_popescu how come every day there's some doofus who does nothing but parts and joins ;/ [00:41]
deadweasel liquidity [00:41]
Namworld Which I don't think is feasible to begin with. [00:41]
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deanclkclk anything is possible [00:41]
Namworld (insurance) [00:41]
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mircea_popescu deanclkclk so make a perpetuum mobile then, why you wasting your time with this crap. [00:41]
Namworld Anything? [00:41]
deanclkclk meaning if you loose 100% of your BTC..u get back say full or partial? [00:41]
benkay i want bad trade insurance [00:42]
benkay like [00:42]
benkay i bought atc at 150 [00:42]
kakobrekla [00:42]
benkay it's now 100 [00:42]
benkay i want that 50 sat back plz [00:42]
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Duffer1 nono if (when) the exchange is compromised and the hot/cold wallets stolen it's insured [00:42]
deanclkclk lol [00:42]
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deanclkclk the only ones credible I know are the ones registered with finrar [00:42]
deanclkclk but, most traders don't want to be tracked [00:42]
Namworld There's already BTC-e to not be tracked. They don't require any verification as far as I know. [00:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28818 @ 0.0008757 = 25.2359 BTC [+] {4} [00:43]
Namworld The registered ones are not typically insured. [00:43]
deanclkclk yes i know but, coinmkt requires social security [00:44]
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Duffer1 i don't know of any one that is insured [00:44]
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* pankkake summons davout [00:44]
deanclkclk how must of you guys get your money to exchanges? bank transfer? [00:45]
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Namworld Yes. Bank transfer. [00:45]
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deanclkclk that's the preferred way I guess [00:45]
deanclkclk and the fees doesn't matter to you guys right? [00:46]
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pankkake there are fees for bank transfers? [00:46]
mircea_popescu ... [00:46]
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Namworld I don't know of any fiat transfer mechanism without fees. [00:46]
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deanclkclk no...apologies. I was talking about trading fees [00:47]
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-kakobrekla- you can hide joins and parts prolly. [00:47]
mircea_popescu or i could bitch. [00:47]
Namworld What about them? What do you want to do? [00:47]
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-kakobrekla- you know you are the only one who sees the previous line. :p [00:48]
davout pankkake: oui? [00:48]
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deanclkclk offering less trading fees [00:48]
ThickAsThieves i dont quite understand the OpenEx withdrawal process, but we'll see... [00:48]
Namworld Well that wouldn't get me at all. [00:48]
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ThickAsThieves it doesnt even ask for a wallet [00:48]
Namworld I don't care about lower fees. [00:48]
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pankkake davout: about insured deposits on exchanges [00:49]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves maybe it's psychic ? [00:49]
deanclkclk what would get you then? [00:49]
pankkake or it's a "donate all to exchange owner" feature [00:49]
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benkay sorry. [00:49]
deanclkclk Again, I just started out in trading about 4 months ago but, I'm a programmer [00:49]
benkay sorry for capslock :( [00:49]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk dude srsly, nobody is using the thing of an unknown. you were here in channel when this happened, openx just lost all its business because Apocalyptic. [00:50]
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Namworld You've just proposed x then y then z upon seeing the first things were already there so wouldn't work. If you couldn't figure it out, you're not fit to handle customer Bitcoins. Because when first thing will work, there won't be other things to try. [00:50]
deanclkclk huh? [00:50]
Namworld Bitcoins will be gone. [00:50]
pankkake well Apocalyptic doesn't know how to configure a mail server so I'm still waiting for the activation mail [00:50]
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Namworld I'm basically not going to touch anything you'd do. [00:50]
deanclkclk those were all my value proposition ..I couldn't just come and spill everything [00:50]
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deanclkclk I asked one at a time to get a feel of what people want [00:51]
mircea_popescu and Namworld comes to the same conclusion everyone else did, but after putting more effort and time into it. [00:51]
ThickAsThieves pankkake mine went to spam [00:51]
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Namworld I just wanted to go through all the details of why no one here is interested. [00:51]
deanclkclk who is [00:51]
pankkake my server greylists things that do not have SPF or proper SPF [00:51]
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deanclkclk who is Apocalyptic? [00:51]
Duffer1 people want trust (web of trust), people want competence (any experience in finance or handling other's significant amounts of money?) [00:52]
benkay who are you? [00:52]
Namworld I like explaining why. [00:52]
mircea_popescu Namworld yeah, i didn't mean it negatively. [00:52]
ThickAsThieves ;;gettrust Apocalyptic [00:52]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask Apocalyptic!~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user Apocalyptic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Mon Jul 15 09:32:50 2013 [00:52]
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deanclkclk finance is good but, also tech expertise [00:52]
benkay ;;gettrust deanclkclk [00:52]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user deanclkclk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never [00:52]
benkay if you want to btc [00:52]
deanclkclk most of the problem with exchanges are tech experience [00:52]
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benkay first you must wot [00:52]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk get over that. techs are monkeys. nobody cares. [00:52]
pankkake Apocalyptic: 1) add a SPF record to 2) if possible set your reverse dns in something - that will reduce your amount of spaminess greatly [00:53]
deanclkclk ok [00:53]
benkay deanclkclk: incorrect. [00:53]
benkay deanclkclk: tech is a trivial thing. [00:53]
Namworld I know you didn't mircea, just a random fact I wanted to add to it. [00:53]
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deanclkclk benkay: run that command again [00:53]
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Namworld With that, I'm gone. Got to meet with the family. [00:53]
mircea_popescu have fun [00:53]
deanclkclk ;;gettrust deanclkclk [00:54]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user deanclkclk to user deanclkclk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never [00:54]
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deanclkclk so I need to signup to WOT. I haven't done so [00:54]
benkay you also need to read the thing you were linked way back up miles above [00:54]
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deanclkclk yes [00:54]
ThickAsThieves great snapshot [00:54]
benkay "so you want to start a bitcoin business" [00:54]
mircea_popescu i tohught he read that [00:54]
deanclkclk again who is apocalyptic? [00:55]
mircea_popescu but it didn't apply to him, because that was for all the OTHER kids. [00:55]
Duffer1 MP you should have PR add 'dat variety speak' article to her start a business thread [00:55]
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mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves ahaha seriously ?! [00:55]
pankkake I don't know who Apocalyptic is but people I trust seem to trust him [00:55]
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pankkake ;;gettrust Apocalyptic [00:55]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask Apocalyptic!~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic. Trust relationship from user pankkake to user Apocalyptic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Mon Jul 15 09:32:50 2013 [00:55]
mircea_popescu the news at 5, a string of mistakes that eventually annul each other if long enough. [00:55]
Apocalyptic pankkake, good point @SPF record [00:55]
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benkay Duffer1: people who need to read Variety Speak won't get it. [00:56]
deanclkclk means that mircea_popescu recommended apocalyptic? [00:56]
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mircea_popescu what im the only 1 ? [00:56]
benkay Duffer1: just like people who need to read "so you want to start a bitcoin business" can't get over their egos and get it. [00:56]
ThickAsThieves dean [00:56]
deanclkclk so let me get this straight. He created openex and people are loosing money? [00:56]
ThickAsThieves lear about the WoT [00:56]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.13199989 = 0.924 BTC [+] [00:56]
ThickAsThieves then youll understand why it matters at all [00:57]
deanclkclk I hear you ThickAsThieves [00:57]
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ThickAsThieves and how the hell we can trust anyone across the webz [00:57]
benkay Duffer1: just like people who'd benefit from BingoBoingo's advice on how not to fail in bitcoin are too wrapped up in their silicon valley bullshit to listen to him. [00:57]
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BingoBoingo !b 1 [00:57]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( [00:57]
deanclkclk ok so once I sign does one become trusted? [00:57]
Duffer1 hehe [00:57]
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deadweasel 'ycombinated minds' as mircea_popescu aptly put it [00:57]
mircea_popescu deanclkclk well it first and foremost takes time [00:57]
ThickAsThieves you do trustworthy things [00:57]
benkay deanclkclk: do something useful, don't screw people over. [00:57]
mircea_popescu which is why you want to do that early and then lurk here [00:58]
* deadweasel is partially ycombinated [00:58]
mircea_popescu you'll figure it out soon enough [00:58]
Duffer1 you're not wrong benkay, call me a hopeless optimist though, some may learn before they lose it all instead of after [00:58]
BingoBoingo deanclkclk: You do trustful things first, eventually you get to do trustworthy things [00:58]
benkay losing it all is a part of the learning process [00:58]
deanclkclk well..I started the project from December but, I've been mostly on #bitcoin, #bitcoin-dev and #litcoin [00:58]
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mircea_popescu Duffer1 benkay it was illustrated recently by herbi. the only restraint is that people's ability to be all imperial and handwave reality be overrun [00:58]
benkay whether 'all' is 9 bucks like in herbi's case, or everything everything in yours... [00:58]
pankkake what about learning by losing it half? [00:58]
mircea_popescu they don't actually have to lose anytihng per se, other than their own vanity [00:58]
mircea_popescu (or, as a progre would put it, "self-respect") [00:59]
deanclkclk I know I guy here called twitz from here..I can't remember his irc name [00:59]
benkay pankkake i gotcha buddy [00:59]
Duffer1 twizt [00:59]
pankkake I learned to do backups by losing only 1/3. but I still miss it :( [00:59]
ThickAsThieves some sleepytime audio: [00:59]
benkay one can always earn more bitcoins. [00:59]
benkay one can never fix a reputation for incompetence. [01:00]
ThickAsThieves ozbot where are you? [01:00]
benkay much less a reputation for outright scammery. [01:00]
pankkake (backups in the general sense, not losing bitcoins due to lack of backups) [01:00]
Duffer1 benkay one can always earn more bitcoins. >>> i wish [01:00]
benkay Duffer1: only thing holding you back is you, cousine. [01:00]
ThickAsThieves yep, ive seen like 3 jobs posted in here this week [01:01]
BingoBoingo ;;tslb [01:01]
gribble Time since last block: 13 minutes and 49 seconds [01:01]
benkay ThickAsThieves: what jobs? [01:01]
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ThickAsThieves ATC Manager to the Stars [01:02]
ThickAsThieves ATC Trader to the Stars [01:02]
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ThickAsThieves hehe [01:02]
benkay well that second one was actually a noob trap [01:02]
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ThickAsThieves also i'll pay bounties for needed ATC services [01:02]
BingoBoingo benkay: Actually I'm handling that second on nao. [01:02]
BingoBoingo I am the n00btrap. [01:03]
benkay o yea [01:03]
benkay for teh lolz [01:03]
ThickAsThieves random thought, there;s no way in hell that wall st guy put 8 nails in himself [01:03]
ThickAsThieves he was killed [01:03]
BingoBoingo ThickAsThieves: Why not. people survive more nails than that. [01:03]
ThickAsThieves it's like 5 dead now? [01:04]
benkay five who and what? [01:04]
ThickAsThieves it makes no sense [01:04]
Duffer1 oh shi there's more? [01:04]
BingoBoingo Anyways. I thought he was Colorado Title company guy. Not Wallstreet. [01:04]
mircea_popescu << one could, perhaps, but defo not by persevering in the manner that got them the original reputation in the first place. [01:04]
ThickAsThieves if youre gonna kill yourself and you are intelligent, wtf would you nailgub yourself, and when did go for it, how the hell do you make it to 7 or 8 in the body and head? [01:05]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves you know this was discussed :D [01:05]
ThickAsThieves nailgun* [01:05]
ThickAsThieves oh you think he was killed too? [01:05]
BingoBoingo ThickAsThieves: Well, the nails themselves slow bleeding. And there was no evidence he was intelligent at all. [01:05]
mircea_popescu well it's a well known joke this, "suicide, 3 shots to the head" [01:05]
Duffer1 depends on nail placement really [01:06]
pankkake probably lacked the street smarts [01:06]
Duffer1 and basic knowledge of anatomy [01:06]
mircea_popescu well that second one was actually a noob trap <<< all jobs are de facto noob traps [01:06]
benkay huh that's an interesting take [01:06]
mircea_popescu doh. [01:06]
benkay how so? [01:06]
mircea_popescu the thing that qualifies a good lay is exactly the thing that disqualifies a rotten one [01:06]
benkay oh enlighten my derpy ass [01:06]
mircea_popescu there's not this convenient cleavage of school from life irl. [01:07]
Jere_Jones Catching up on the last hour of conversation is depressing. [01:07]
mircea_popescu Jere_Jones [01:07]
mircea_popescu oops [01:07]
mircea_popescu Jere_Jones_wife : please hide any nailguns ty. [01:07]
Jere_Jones Before that. lol [01:07]
davout pankkake: what about the insured deposits ? [01:07]
davout pankkake: which deposits ? :-) [01:08]
mircea_popescu davout yes yes, we know, you have it. [01:08]
davout mircea_popescu: no i actually don't [01:08]
mircea_popescu for eur ? i thought it was eu banking w/e [01:08]
mircea_popescu "we promise you can get your money back unless germany needs it to bail out russian oligarchs in fucktardistan [01:08]
mircea_popescu " [01:09]
davout it seemed obvious to me when i first talked about it, [01:09]
davout which was a mistake, i double checked with the "fonds de garantie des dépôts" and they only cover accounts called "comptes de dépôt", and not "comptes de paiement" [01:09]
mircea_popescu o you sneak. [01:10]
mircea_popescu what are you, french ? [01:10]
davout anyway, the main point is that the money is on accounts in the name of the holders, in a financial insitution, not on our corporate accounts, and therefore legally not ours [01:10]
mircea_popescu nevertheless do go back and add addendums wherever feasible [01:11]
mircea_popescu otherwise that's grossly misrepresentative. [01:11]
pankkake the original question was "insurance from theft" though [01:11]
pankkake so that answers it [01:11]
mircea_popescu yeah but novel stuff thus unearthed [01:11]
davout pankkake: oic the question was about btc deposits [01:13]
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pankkake I'm not sure [01:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00087607 = 24.7052 BTC [+] {5} [01:14]
BingoBoingo Apocalyptic: You orderbook looks weird [01:14]
mircea_popescu here on -assets we specialise in animated conversations with multiple participants all of which have no certain idea wtf the topic is, what's being said, what it means and so on. [01:14]
mircea_popescu works well enough so far. [01:14]
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davout haha [01:14]
mircea_popescu the english language being employed is more an artefact of the observer than a reality of the conversation. [01:15]
davout i doubt any exchange found an insurance company to cover the btc deposits [01:15]
Duffer1 have any tried? [01:16]
benkay heh i'd be surprised [01:16]
davout if any did try ? [01:16]
mircea_popescu davout sure they had. [01:16]
davout we did [01:16]
mircea_popescu CPA. [01:16]
benkay nah if any'd obtained the necessary ins [01:17]
Duffer1 davout who'd you approach? [01:17]
mircea_popescu ;;google usagi CPA [01:17]
gribble Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading ...: ; Typhoon USAGI (ODETTE) Update Number 007 | Weather Philippines: ; Typhoon USAGI (ODETTE) Update Number 008 | Weather Philippines: [01:17]
deanclkclk pankkake: are you around? [01:17]
ThickAsThieves if anyone like's gingery drinks, this stuff is great: [01:17]
davout Duffer1: dunno, i didn't take care of that myself [01:17]
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Duffer1 ah [01:17]
ThickAsThieves good as mixer or a zippy refresher [01:17]
ThickAsThieves (the ginger beer) [01:18]
deanclkclk folks...attention. I bid for 1 BTC for $100 USD but, instead get 1.04 BTC [01:18]
deanclkclk does most exchange work like this? [01:18]
Duffer1 how long ago? lloyds is covering some bitcoin based noob vault, they may be receptive [01:18]
Duffer1 multiple tangents and generally talking past eachother? ya [01:19]
mircea_popescu i like the folks attention bit. who do you take yourself for dood. [01:19]
mircea_popescu shut up and spend the next year reading, you're not part of the speaking crowd here. [01:19]
pankkake deanclkclk: yes why? [01:19]
deanclkclk I just reread what you type and I think there's a misunderstanding [01:20]
deanclkclk see what I typed above pankkake & [01:20]
deanclkclk ^ [01:20]
Apocalyptic BingoBoingo, what's weird about it ? [01:20]
ThickAsThieves dean you are making shit up in your head [01:21]
ThickAsThieves of course that happens [01:21]
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ThickAsThieves when you overbid [01:21]
ThickAsThieves except you spend less $ instead [01:21]
ThickAsThieves you are trying to make some kind of reverse auction bidbook? [01:22]
deanclkclk overbid is relative [01:22]
deanclkclk how do you know you overbid [01:22]
deanclkclk ? [01:22]
* r_melee is now known as d_rebel [01:22]
ThickAsThieves if you knew you wouldnt overbid [01:22]
deanclkclk ThickAsThieves: that's not an exact science [01:22]
deanclkclk all I'm saying...with the site..there's no over bid [01:23]
pankkake I blame today's headache on you guys [01:23]
ThickAsThieves well the orders are always changing [01:23]
deanclkclk if you "overbid" ..u get more btc [01:23]
deanclkclk that's all [01:23]
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ThickAsThieves i suggest you make your thing [01:23]
deanclkclk but, orders change a second [01:23]
ThickAsThieves sounds wonderful [01:24]
deanclkclk you sound sarcastic [01:24]
ThickAsThieves i do? [01:24]
deanclkclk well...seeing that no one here have said "wonderfule" since I've been here [01:25]
ThickAsThieves well its what you wanna hear right? [01:25]
deanclkclk well no [01:25]
ThickAsThieves oh? [01:25]
deanclkclk I want to get objective opinion [01:25]
deanclkclk rather calling me stupid [01:25]
ThickAsThieves does that opinion have to think you have a good idea? [01:25]
deanclkclk I don't know anymore [01:26]
ThickAsThieves they explained it to you [01:26]
ThickAsThieves you are scratching the surface [01:26]
pankkake the "doing it" phase usually helps you know if the idea was good or not [01:26]
pankkake and no need for real coins [01:26]
deanclkclk would testnet help? [01:27]
ThickAsThieves you dont need any coins [01:27]
ThickAsThieves its just a db [01:27]
deanclkclk ok [01:27]
benkay yeah simulate it [01:27]
benkay set it up [01:27]
benkay set up the simulations [01:27]
benkay and i'll go through the trouble of auditing your code. [01:27]
deanclkclk but, all I'm people ever work with exchanges that give you more for what you asked for? [01:27]
benkay deal? [01:27]
deanclkclk sure [01:27]
mircea_popescu benkay i thought you were busy [01:27]
deanclkclk that's a deal [01:27]
benkay he's never going to deliver. [01:28]
benkay i'm shorting his delivery. [01:28]
mircea_popescu if he is you owe me an atc. [01:28]
deanclkclk why you say that? [01:28]
ThickAsThieves a good exchange always gives you what you ask for, no? [01:28]
deanclkclk yes..that's the minimum ThickAsThieves [01:28]
benkay outta mah FACE mircea_popescu [01:28]
deanclkclk but, a better exchange gives you more [01:28]
mircea_popescu if he doesn't before you do you get 1. [01:28]
Duffer1 i don't see how you could get more for what you asked for, someone has to get less in that scenario [01:28]
deanclkclk it doesn't Duffer1 [01:29]
benkay i'm not taking this bet, mp. [01:29]
mircea_popescu lmao [01:29]
BingoBoingo Apocalyptic: I'm trying to put in a Bid for 12000 and instead getting bids for 12 [01:29]
mircea_popescu i thought you already had. guess not huh. [01:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00087145 = 7.6688 BTC [-] [01:29]
benkay how had i? [01:29]
mircea_popescu "i'm shorting his delivery." [01:29]
ThickAsThieves if i understand your idea, all it does is market buy with the rest of any money you bid, if you happened to overbid [01:29]
benkay yeah if he delivers i gotta deploy some time on a code audit [01:29]
deanclkclk if I bid $100 BTC but, I got it with 99 Duffer1 ..either the user gets back $5 dollars or they trade it for some additional BTC/Satoshis [01:29]
deanclkclk sorry I got it for 95 [01:30]
mircea_popescu so if he doesn't deliver before you do you get a free atc. [01:30]
benkay before i do what now? [01:30]
mircea_popescu deliver. [01:30]
ThickAsThieves wow ATC only doled out in singles now [01:30]
benkay oh mimisbrunnr? [01:30]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves expensive shit. [01:30]
mircea_popescu benkay whatever it is you're busy with [01:30]
benkay nigga i got an endless list of shit to process [01:30]
ThickAsThieves is he busy making yet? [01:31]
mircea_popescu yes yes, tits brulee. [01:31]
benkay gotta keep the brain in tip top condition [01:31]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves apparently he's busy watching womenz in negligees wash dishes and programmers do mysql exchanges. [01:31]
deanclkclk whatever I'm explaining is making sense? [01:31]
davout Duffer1: do you remember the name of the "vault" that says its insured? [01:31]
Duffer1 let me look [01:32]
ThickAsThieves satoshisvault? [01:32]
ThickAsThieves this ? [01:32]
ThickAsThieves fukn doge.. [01:32]
Duffer1 davout [01:32]
deanclkclk so I'm saying rather than get back $5 dollars and create another trade; which time is money and during that creation you might miss a chance on a great trade [01:32]
deanclkclk the site does it for you [01:32]
davout ThickAsThieves Duffer1 thanks i'll have a look [01:33]
deanclkclk well it's an option. Get back fiat or get more crypto [01:33]
benkay ThickAsThieves: he's convinced me to hack an allchain watcher together [01:33]
ThickAsThieves a what? [01:33]
benkay precisely. [01:33]
mircea_popescu omg sikrits [01:33]
benkay shh [01:34]
deanclkclk hello? anyone can let me know if this idea makes any sense? [01:34]
ThickAsThieves lol [01:34]
benkay yes [01:34]
benkay now go do it [01:34]
benkay less talk, more do. [01:34]
deanclkclk benkay: u are not bullshitting me right? [01:34]
deanclkclk lol [01:34]
ThickAsThieves it sounds more like a feature than an exhange dean [01:34]
benkay not at all [01:34]
ThickAsThieves like a tickbox by my order fields [01:34]
deanclkclk yes [01:34]
ThickAsThieves X Full Spend if Overbid? [01:35]
deanclkclk yes [01:35]
Duffer1 i don't see why you would want to dean, a person can just set their price to buy until their 100 is spent [01:35]
benkay you make an exchange, i'll audit it for you. [01:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.0008713 = 9.5843 BTC [-] [01:35]
benkay all the audits going to say is probably something like "kinda full of holes, operationally bogus, liable to lose your coins" [01:35]
ThickAsThieves why market buy when you can pseudo market buy? [01:35]
deanclkclk if you say so benkay [01:35]
deanclkclk but, it will be in beta [01:36]
benkay deal? you stop bothering us about this until it's done, when it's done i audit your codebase. [01:36]
deanclkclk what do you mean Duffer1 ? [01:36]
ThickAsThieves i like how beta means "dont look at me if your money disappears" [01:36]
Duffer1 well what happens right now if you place a 100$ bid for btc on btc-e? [01:36]
deanclkclk's fake coins [01:36]
deanclkclk well play coins [01:37]
deanclkclk just for testing [01:37]
deanclkclk then when launch..the site will provide 3 months of trading free [01:37]
Duffer1 if your bid matches a sell, the exchange executes the trade for however much the seller sold [01:37]
Duffer1 your position is still open if you have any money left and no sellers willing to meat your price [01:37]
deanclkclk hopefully ...after about 10 months. We could insure folks coins but not like 100% [01:38]
Duffer1 meet [01:38]
ThickAsThieves lol [01:38]
mircea_popescu the decision of how many months of free trade to have is a resolution of the greater issue of how to market a product, which is in turn decided and framed by greater issues. [01:38]
mircea_popescu to have fixed answers for such low level questions at this juncture merely indicates you do not have the intellectual resources to correctly model the problem you declare./ [01:38]
Apocalyptic hopefully ...after about 10 months. We could insure folks coins but not like 100% // good luck with that [01:39]
deanclkclk why Apocalyptic ? [01:39]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 377 @ 0.05626923 = 21.2135 BTC [-] {12} [01:39]
ThickAsThieves lol [01:39]
deanclkclk I wasn't asking question mircea_popescu I was pitching an idea [01:40]
deanclkclk go fuck yourself [01:40]
mircea_popescu derp. [01:40]
pankkake :( [01:40]
ThickAsThieves ;;roulette [01:40]
gribble *click* [01:40]
ThickAsThieves ;;bcstats [01:41]
gribble Current Blocks: 286068 | Current Difficulty: 2.6214044530646152E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 286271 | Next Difficulty In: 203 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3092710570.63 | Estimated Percent Change: 17.97915 [01:41]
deanclkclk from my first've been making me out to be a mentally retarded idiot [01:41]
Duffer1 don't take that personally hehe [01:41]
deanclkclk rather than complain..offer suggestions [01:41]
Duffer1 have you read Trilema? [01:41]
mircea_popescu i wasn't making you out. [01:41]
deanclkclk I don't know everything...that's why I asked for answers...suggestions [01:42]
mircea_popescu and you are neither at liberty to judge me nor are you at liberty to make recommendation. [01:42]
mircea_popescu more importantly, you aren't at liberty to ignore the recommendations i make. re-read the log, they're there. [01:42]
mircea_popescu it's not a matter of you "not knowing everything", implying we are somehow equal. [01:42]
mircea_popescu it is a matter of you not knowing anything, not even sufficiently something to allow you to understand how little you know. [01:43]
deanclkclk man [01:43]
mircea_popescu ayup. [01:44]
mircea_popescu so now that we understand ourselves, get in the wot, stfu and read the log for a while, then we can talk again. [01:44]
ThickAsThieves deanclkclk, [01:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06950005 = 0.139 BTC [-] [01:45]
ThickAsThieves and [01:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00087689 = 2.6307 BTC [+] [01:46]
mircea_popescu speaking of which, pankkake you may wanna take out the OTQuMjMuMjE1LjE3NA== part. [01:46]
mircea_popescu it's there so i can ip-ban spammy rss stealers. [01:46]
benkay deanclkclk: you agreed to bugger off 'till you delivered something i can audit. now do so. [01:48]
davout Duffer1: looks interesting, i see nothing obviously sketchy for the service [01:48]
pankkake I don't know if I can apply filters to this thing [01:48]
davout ThickAsThieves: vaultofsatoshi has like a 11-people team, that sounds big for an exchange that does 400 weekly volume [01:49]
mircea_popescu davout who are the 11 people ? [01:49]
Duffer1 davout ya it's just insured cold storage, but maybe lloyds would be approachable about insuring an exchange [01:49]
ThickAsThieves i know nothing of it [01:49]
ThickAsThieves just recalled the name for some reason [01:49]
davout the insured guys are btw [01:49]
* d_rebel is now known as r_melee [01:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [-] [01:49]
davout mircea_popescu: [01:49]
mircea_popescu davout so there's 11 stock pics or w/e. [01:50]
benkay and maybe in retrospect it's not so much a shorting as entering into an option to spend some time if the guy leaves us alone, delivery of which he'll take when/if he delivers [01:50]
deanclkclk I'll try another irc. You guys are too playful to be taken seriously [01:50]
benkay deanclkclk does that mean our deal's off? [01:50]
ThickAsThieves your loss [01:50]
benkay play is an important part of thinking [01:50]
Duffer1 i doubt very much you'll receive competent advice elsewhere [01:50]
ThickAsThieves go check out bitcoin-dev or something i guess [01:51]
mircea_popescu benkay Yeah, I’m getting rid of all my furniture. All of it. And I’m going to build these different levels, with steps, and it’ll all be carpeted with a lot of pillows. You know, like ancient Egypt. [01:51]
davout mircea_popescu: exactly, which looks sketchy [01:51]
davout deanclkclk: you want advice to create your exchange? [01:51]
benkay deanclkclk: you might listen to davout he does what you're dreaming of doing. [01:52]
deanclkclk I don't want on how to create an exchange. I'm just pitching my idea to get a feel of what people think [01:52]
mircea_popescu davout is too playful to be taken srsly. [01:52]
deanclkclk want a how to* [01:52]
davout deanclkclk: so you want a howto about how to create an exchange? [01:52]
deanclkclk lol [01:53]
deanclkclk oh boy [01:53]
mircea_popescu i could use a how to on how to. [01:53]
ThickAsThieves OpenEx is opensource, use that [01:53]
benkay yeah your howotos suck, mircea_popescu [01:53]
Apocalyptic (don't) [01:53]
mircea_popescu WHAT! [01:53]
benkay it's like you write 'em yourself or something ;) [01:54]
mircea_popescu i am so misunderstood. nobody understands me [01:54]
mircea_popescu im going to shoot myself with the stapler gun nao [01:54]
benkay well you write for yourself, is it any surprise? [01:54]
davout deanclkclk: oh sorry, I misread, what's your idea? [01:54]
benkay jurov had to pay me to write a manual for your "exchange" [01:54]
Duffer1 ha i told stringpuller there was money there like months ago [01:55]
deanclkclk davout: basically from a trade..people get more from what they ask for [01:55]
ThickAsThieves what i hate about mpex is, whenever i overbid, i have btc left unspent, fukn noobs [01:55]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves i was in talks with some people to recharge your phone after bids if there's like stuff left over [01:55]
mircea_popescu however i think they od'd or something because i haven't heard from them in a while [01:56]
deanclkclk do you folks trade on sites or mobile apps? [01:56]
pankkake idea: when you overpay for shares, it is distributer to the seller; we would call this tipping [01:56]
ThickAsThieves mostly via SMS [01:56]
mircea_popescu whoa a TIPPING EXCHANGE [01:57]
Apocalyptic davout: basically from a trade..people get more from what they ask for // so what about it ? [01:57]
mircea_popescu it could be all coded in doge-os [01:57]
* praeconium (~Adium@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:57]
BingoBoingo doge.js [01:57]
pankkake well, [01:57]
deanclkclk dajavu but, anyways [01:57]
pankkake omg "now with doge" [01:57]
Apocalyptic BTC China already has these rebates, where the fee for the liquidity taker goes to the one who put up the bid/ask [01:57]
mircea_popescu i wonder if praeconium has an evil sock meconium [01:58]
davout deanclkclk: that's your idea for an exchange? [01:58]
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deanclkclk I bid a $100 for 1 BTC and I find a ask for $95. [01:58]
benkay doge-vu [01:58]
davout i spend all the 100$ and get more btc [01:58]
davout yeah i got that [01:59]
deanclkclk and use the $5 dollars to find an additional ask [01:59]
BingoBoingo "I'm fucking sick of hearing people say use your brian, etc." [01:59]
davout deanclkclk: this is not a very interesting idea, and certainly not an idea worth building an exchange around [01:59]
deanclkclk so basically you could have a case where for the original $100 for 1 BTC..I get 1.02 btc [02:00]
deanclkclk @ davout ^ [02:00]
davout yeah, i got that the first time [02:00]
davout :-) [02:00]
deanclkclk ok [02:00]
mircea_popescu O RLY? YA RLY NO WAI OIC [02:01]
deanclkclk why isn't it interesting? [02:01]
mircea_popescu ok this is pretty good :D [02:01]
Bugpowder mircea_popescu: when is the MPOEbot coming back? And when will pending deposits be credited? [02:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00087433 = 4.2405 BTC [-] [02:01]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder the bot just as soon as it manages to talk to bitcoincharts [02:02]
deanclkclk @ davout ^ [02:02]
mircea_popescu and deposits just as soon as lemme see [02:02]
davout deanclkclk: because you reinvented market orders, except you have the currency amount you're spending locked, not the currency you're buying [02:02]
Bugpowder been waiting for a test deposit for 36 hours.... [02:02]
davout bitstamp already does it [02:02]
davout deanclkclk: so no, it's not a very interesting idea, not a bad way to let users place orders but still [02:03]
deanclkclk you are a trader davout ? [02:03]
mircea_popescu incredible how thick this guy is lmao [02:04]
davout goodbye deanclkclk, i'm going to play [02:04]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo pretty lulzy. [02:04]
deanclkclk davout: it benefits the seller and buyer. I was talking from mostly from the buyer [02:04]
deanclkclk ok [02:04]
Bugpowder I like the cryptsy system of, whatever bid you place that is over market, you get filled at asks at that exact price. [02:05]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Of course. Who really wants to use their acquaintance Brian in that way at all. Everyone knows their Brian will just flag everything as a scam and tell them to STFU n00b. [02:05]
mircea_popescu clearly evil brian. [02:05]
Duffer1 cryptsy system of trading, make trade, it executes a few hours later [02:05]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder why ? [02:06]
deanclkclk Duffer1: u mean everything gets execute late? [02:06]
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Bugpowder you know... place asks and bids way off market at round numbers, get favorably filled at random intervals in the future. [02:06]
Duffer1 it was a joke, cryptsy is a joke ^.^ [02:06]
mircea_popescu sounds artistic. [02:07]
mircea_popescu like you know, trade as a happening. [02:07]
BingoBoingo I'm wondering when other ATC people are coming over to Apocalyptic's exchange. [02:08]
BingoBoingo Or... are we all waiting for Openex withdrawals [02:08]
benkay openex scam [02:09]
benkay use your brian BingoBoingo [02:09]
Apocalyptic first ATC deposits will confirm in a couple of hours given the network rate, no much action to be expected until then [02:09]
Bugpowder heheh [02:09]
Apocalyptic benkay, indeed [02:09]
BingoBoingo benkay: They have processed withdrawals before, it just usually takes 12 hours or so. Now, their order matching... totally scam. [02:10]
mircea_popescu yeah even on the internets ppl need a little time [02:10]
Apocalyptic it seems deanclkclk took his idea over to -otc now [02:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00087723 = 24.2115 BTC [+] {4} [02:12]
Duffer1 i wonder how many times he's been offered super cheap ltc [02:13]
mircea_popescu prolly a much better environment for him anwyay. [02:13]
davout deanclkclk: what people are trying to tell you is that your idea is not retarded, but that it does not constitute an original value proposition [02:14]
benkay you guys you guys you guys [02:14]
benkay [02:14]
benkay especially deanclkclk [02:14]
benkay plus also the animations are pretty sweet [02:15]
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mircea_popescu omfg the derpage. [02:17]
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benkay did i just get mircea_popescu to watch a video? [02:18]
mircea_popescu indirectly but yet. [02:19]
mircea_popescu yes* [02:19]
benkay indirectly? [02:19]
mircea_popescu someone must be punished for this. [02:19]
* benkay points at ThickAsThieves [02:19]
benkay it's his fault. [02:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00087806 = 8.3416 BTC [+] {2} [02:21]
* dust-otc has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [02:22]
BingoBoingo Looks like Openex just processed a batch of withdrawls. Once these things confirm it will be time to shoot them over to x-bt [02:23]
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Apocalyptic .d [02:27]
Apocalyptic damn you ozbot [02:27]
BingoBoingo ;;diff [02:28]
gribble 2.6214044530646152E9 [02:28]
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asciilifeform ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform [02:28]
gribble Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform! Get your encrypted OTP from [02:28]
asciilifeform ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:1b013f0cf4604b0b39eee440b7280e1eb97c6aab5d299814ffc31393 [02:29]
gribble You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7 [02:29]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in a world where every "idea" is in fact chewed and spit and chewed so many times by so many generations by now all that's left is the spit itself << not quite. [02:29]
asciilifeform fundamental ideas are still possible. [02:30]
mircea_popescu like for instance. [02:30]
asciilifeform i have so little faith in the meta-nsa that i'll drop one here. [02:30]
mircea_popescu can be historical [02:30]
mircea_popescu doesn't have to be curren [02:30]
mircea_popescu t [02:30]
asciilifeform 2 yrs. ago i figured out how to flex a fairly ordinary multi-conductor cable in an arbitrary spot, at an arbitrary angle, purely electrically. [02:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05500028 = 1.1 BTC [-] {3} [02:31]
asciilifeform this alone should be enough detail for any 'alert reader' to replicate... [02:31]
mircea_popescu and this is fundamental ? [02:32]
asciilifeform depends on your definition of fundamental. robotics without motors, gears, shafts, lubrication... [02:33]
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asciilifeform if 'fundamental' means 'discover new field of mathematics', then clearly not. [02:33]
mircea_popescu well given what you were replying to i took fundamental to mean "which was never afore thought" [02:33]
asciilifeform i did try to find some prior art, of some kind. found none. [02:34]
asciilifeform i post this turd here, to challenge the 1,000 idlers listening to us, to do so. [02:34]
asciilifeform i'd dearly love for it to be found. so i'm not stuck building the damn thing. [02:34]
asciilifeform hint: waveguide allowed to deform. [02:35]
asciilifeform as far as i could tell, the last fellow who pondered a related question was mr. t, when he coughed up the ac motor. [02:36]
mircea_popescu seems to me about half the 12-yo-boy demographic cartoons out there use this concept. [02:36]
mircea_popescu understand, my approach was cultural not technical. [02:36]
asciilifeform ? [02:36]
asciilifeform every animated robot i know of shows robotic arms with joints [02:36]
asciilifeform rather than walking coax. [02:37]
mircea_popescu i just googled "robot cartoon" [02:38]
asciilifeform (well, triax.) [02:38]
mircea_popescu the 7 images at the top include 0 articulated arms [02:38]
mircea_popescu all are some sort of tube [02:38]
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asciilifeform they still typically show at least vaguely jointed movement. [02:40]
asciilifeform though perhaps an aficionado of tentacle porn could cough up a counter-example. [02:40]
mircea_popescu now, obviously the fact that star-trek revolves around ipads does exactly nothing in a discussion of prior ipad art [02:41]
mircea_popescu but it was this rather than that angle i was pursuing. [02:41]
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asciilifeform so, boolean algebra. fundamental? or, aristotle? [02:42]
asciilifeform (that is, or not, given the latter) [02:42]
mircea_popescu right. [02:43]
asciilifeform semiconductor? [02:43]
mircea_popescu the cellphone is a trivial greek trinket. they didn't know how to make it, but they did have them in their speech [02:43]
mircea_popescu semiconductor is fundamental perhaps. [02:44]
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asciilifeform public key crypto? [02:44]
mircea_popescu certainly the strange behaviours of quantum that manifest at a macro level, from magnetism to histerezis, would perhaps count. [02:44]
asciilifeform i tend to think of 'fundamental' in the literal sense. that is, becomes a foundation for a recognizably novel class of things [02:44]
mircea_popescu pkc definitely not. [02:44]
mircea_popescu yeah but novel in what sense. [02:44]
mircea_popescu novel as in "never made before" or novel as in "never spoken of before" ? [02:44]
asciilifeform novel in the classic sense of transforming a 'mystery' into a mere 'problem'. [02:45]
* deanclkclk (~directory@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:45]
mircea_popescu right. but still, people spoke of the mystery back when it was not yet a problem [02:45]
mircea_popescu would you say the people trying to disprove (or for that matter prove) ZFC are or are not included ? [02:46]
asciilifeform can only be said in retrospect. [02:46]
mircea_popescu does only the speech of whoever gets the result count ? [02:46]
mircea_popescu right. which is what invalidates (from a purely philosophical pov) the approach [02:46]
Bugpowder mircea_popescu: ty... Hoping to see MPOEbot make a triumphant return soon. [02:47]
asciilifeform true. the turd i threw in is not 'fundamental invention', unless it is 10 yrs. later. [02:47]
asciilifeform (and the stepper motor and ball screw go to the junkyard) [02:48]
asciilifeform (picture, say, street swept by long spool of wire with a broom on one end and a lunchbox-sized driver on the other.) [02:49]
asciilifeform every day i wake up and wonder how many other folks are sitting on crap like this [02:50]
asciilifeform because there's no place for it. [02:50]
ThickAsThieves mircea_popescu: ty... Hoping to see MPOEbot make a triumphant return soon. /// unlikely til Gox reopens wd's [02:50]
mircea_popescu why ? [02:50]
ThickAsThieves cuz i assume bot is off cuz risk [02:51]
Bugpowder as do i [02:51]
mircea_popescu no, srsly, it actually did not get prices. [02:51]
Bugpowder shorting puts right now would be sweet [02:51]
mircea_popescu last it quoted was sometime yest. [02:51]
ThickAsThieves where do you get prices? [02:51]
Bugpowder though shorting puts yesterday would have been sweeter. [02:51]
ThickAsThieves [02:52]
ThickAsThieves works for me [02:52]
mircea_popescu same place. [02:52]
mircea_popescu yes but it has to answer when the bot asks [02:52]
Bugpowder ;;bc,24hprc [02:52]
gribble 463.40 [02:52]
ThickAsThieves ok [02:52]
ThickAsThieves bot asks like every 10min no? [02:53]
mircea_popescu i think there may be a cascading effect where if it misses one it asks too often and then it gets banned for an interval [02:53]
mircea_popescu but i was never able to troubleshoot it [02:53]
mircea_popescu how would it have been sweet yest anyway ? seem sthe price dropped. [02:55]
asciilifeform unrelated: neat find, from today's trip to library, for all crypto aficionados: 'Post-Quantum Cryptography.' Bernstein, Buchmann & Dahmen. (2009) [02:55]
ThickAsThieves i dont plan on buying any, i just think it's weird how this happens every "crash" [02:55]
mircea_popescu does it tho ? [02:55]
asciilifeform (anyone playing with mceliece and the like will find something delicious therein) [02:55]
ThickAsThieves at least 2 of the 3 ive seen [02:55]
ThickAsThieves i dont recall abnout the 1200 drop [02:56]
mircea_popescu yeah well in this process any data can be fit to any hypothesis. [02:56]
Apocalyptic asciilifeform, you're into crypto ? [02:56]
ThickAsThieves mpex would certainly look better to be working than not [02:56]
asciilifeform Apocalyptic: just so happens i'm into a number of things. [02:56]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves no particular requirement one can't just trade as is you know ? [02:57]
ThickAsThieves not sure what you are saying [02:57]
Apocalyptic I wrote some crypto challenges a couple of years ago, involving breaking hash functions and differential crypto, they might interest you [02:57]
mircea_popescu i am saying that mpex allows people to trade whether the bot quotes or doesn't quote, [02:58]
ThickAsThieves we're talking about the bot [02:58]
mircea_popescu and that the bot is a private offering which is in principle not required to offer anyone any convenience other than its backers. [02:58]
mircea_popescu so it can't possibly a) look good or bad b) make mpex anything. [02:58]
benkay people can't price options on their own, though mircea. that competence thing. [02:58]
ThickAsThieves to you maybe [02:58]
mircea_popescu well to logix [02:59]
ThickAsThieves why not fix it? [02:59]
benkay it's not making any money for mpex shareholders not trading! [02:59]
ThickAsThieves ^ decent argument as well [03:00]
mircea_popescu cuz it's a fucking hassle to fiddle with its feed, it being hardened ;/ [03:00]
benkay ThickAsThieves that sounds like a call for a subscription market service. [03:00]
ThickAsThieves sound slike something karpeles would say [03:00]
mircea_popescu but yeah, quoting outages are temporary, people (who don't generally trade) like to bitch/find conspiraci explanations for otherwise random events. [03:00]
mircea_popescu which you know, how much effort can i expend chasing. [03:01]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves dude wtf are you talking about srsly. what is the connection there ? [03:02]
asciilifeform a hilarious find, from the same trip: [03:02]
ThickAsThieves saying it's a hassle to fix a broken service? [03:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06099997 = 0.61 BTC [+] {2} [03:02]
mircea_popescu i think you misrepresent a convenience for a right. [03:03]
asciilifeform i was not able to locate the ditch filled with the non-functioning students. [03:03]
asciilifeform but i admit i did not look very hard. [03:03]
benkay all in their bedrooms [03:03]
mircea_popescu the bot doesn't have to quote any more than you do. where's your quote on options ? [03:03]
benkay ruminating on the future of los estados unidos [03:03]
mircea_popescu have you fixed this broken service ? [03:03]
ThickAsThieves no one has to do anything [03:03]
ThickAsThieves let's just all go home [03:03]
benkay also wtf terp asciilifeform? [03:03]
asciilifeform turtle is the symbol of the uni. for some reason. [03:04]
mircea_popescu no but srsly. [03:04]
benkay yeah but - 'terp'? [03:04]
asciilifeform terrapin turtle [03:04]
ThickAsThieves is there any logging of mpexbot uptime? [03:04]
ThickAsThieves optionsbot [03:04]
asciilifeform about palm-sized. [03:04]
ThickAsThieves not sure what you name it [03:04]
mircea_popescu not that i know, but i suppose it's becoming more useful. [03:04]
Apocalyptic benkay, a mix between turtle and derp [03:04]
benkay all terps are henceforth confined to their quarters [03:05]
benkay ritual canings will be administered until moral improves. [03:05]
asciilifeform there is a statue on the campus, car-sized, so many of the locals think it must be a gigantic sea-turtle. [03:05]
ThickAsThieves i guess no one cares but Bugpowder anyway [03:05]
benkay morale* [03:05]
ThickAsThieves i still think it's lame [03:05]
benkay i care where's my damn options bot profit [03:05]
mircea_popescu so make a watcher and do some research. [03:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00087866 = 24.1632 BTC [+] {4} [03:06]
benkay i don't really much care in the grand scheme of things but its a point what needs making. [03:06]
Bugpowder I have a history of crushing MPOEbot. I think MP fears my awesome trading powers and has pulled the bot. [03:06]
benkay lol yeah he saw you fiddling with your key again and pulled the bot [03:06]
ThickAsThieves it did happen whilst you were sorting out your key! [03:06]
Bugpowder EXACTLY [03:06]
mircea_popescu clearly! [03:06]
ThickAsThieves observably! [03:07]
Bugpowder DOUBLEY SAFE [03:07]
benkay teh horreur [03:07]
mircea_popescu no that was because of satoshi malleability. [03:07]
asciilifeform the turtle statue traditionally gets 'offerings' during exam week. this year, more whiskey bottles and handmade bongs than ever before. [03:07]
mircea_popescu we had to check all satoshis for cubeness [03:07]
mircea_popescu by hand [03:07]
mircea_popescu one at a time [03:07]
benkay malleability options next? [03:07]
Bugpowder heh [03:07]
Bugpowder to manipulatable [03:07]
benkay well yeah [03:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 53 @ 0.00296999 = 0.1574 BTC [+] [03:08]
davout "we had to check all satoshis for cubeness" <<< win [03:09]
Bugpowder I imagine the feed will start working around the same time gox gets dropped from bitcoincharts, and the artificial price jump risk will have been eliminated [03:10]
mircea_popescu with all the bitching, [03:10]
mircea_popescu 13924429xx ; 13924424xx ; 13924419xx ; 13924414xx ; 13924408xx ; 13924408xx ; 13924408xx ; 13924403xx ; 13924403xx ; 13923763xx ; 13923724xx ; 13923716xx [03:10]
mircea_popescu that's the past 12 times it quoted [03:10]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder srsly, mtgox is not even in the feed of bitcoincharts, since days ago. [03:11]
mircea_popescu it has exactly 0 impact in all this discussion. [03:11]
ThickAsThieves yes it is [03:11]
mircea_popescu mnope. [03:11]
Bugpowder it is [03:11]
Bugpowder how do they get $465 / BTC [03:11]
Bugpowder without it. [03:11]
Bugpowder IMPOSSIBURU [03:11]
ThickAsThieves you even noted yourself yesterday [03:11]
ThickAsThieves that it factors euro [03:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 439 @ 0.00296999 = 1.3038 BTC [+] {2} [03:12]
ThickAsThieves goxprice [03:12]
mircea_popescu o wow look at that. [03:12]
mircea_popescu well this is definite bs. [03:12]
mircea_popescu but but but wtf, soimehow my bot sees 500ish avgs [03:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 76 @ 0.00296999 = 0.2257 BTC [+] [03:13]
ThickAsThieves i thgought it couldnt see? [03:13]
mircea_popescu 537 last [03:13]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves i just gave you above a list of last times it quoted! [03:13]
pankkake Updated : better CSS(!), strip weird Trilema feed stuff, links to foaf/opml so you can import the list into your own reader. and this is genius: [03:13]
ThickAsThieves how do i read that list? [03:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 392 @ 0.00296998 = 1.1642 BTC [-] {2} [03:14]
mircea_popescu unixtime [03:14]
Bugpowder I just want to short 50 DITM puts. A pittance. [03:14]
Bugpowder come back MPOEbot [03:14]
Bugpowder come back [03:14]
Bugpowder I miss u [03:14]
mircea_popescu dude did bitcoincharts split the feeds or something wtf is going on here. [03:15]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00297 = 0.1188 BTC [+] [03:15]
Bugpowder [03:15]
ozbot Bitcoin Charts / Markets [03:15]
Bugpowder what feed are you looking at? [03:15]
davout mircea_popescu: if they removed gox from the index it'll probably still be taking into account data from before the removal [03:15]
Bugpowder 24hr bor [03:16]
Bugpowder bro [03:16]
davout Bugpowder: if it's the 24avg and it's been more than 24h then yes I guess sthg is off [03:16]
ThickAsThieves i dont think they removed gox [03:17]
ThickAsThieves and i doubt they will [03:17]
davout this ^ [03:17]
Bugpowder I don't see why they should. [03:17]
Bugpowder They aren't making financial decisions based on their quote [03:18]
mircea_popescu sooooo [03:18]
Bugpowder though a nefarious agent could potentially take an options position and bribe them to remove it for assured profit. [03:18]
mircea_popescu turns out bugpowder is exactly right. bot actually isn't quoting because feeds disagree not because it couldn't get them. [03:18]
mircea_popescu i was wrong o.o [03:19]
benkay !b2 [03:19]
ThickAsThieves !b 3 [03:19]
benkay foar history. [03:19]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( [03:19]
Bugpowder lol [03:19]
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mircea_popescu well fuck me am i supposed to know all this code these people write all the time everywhere omfgbbq [03:19]
kakobrekla i take bribes not to publish that. [03:20]
Apocalyptic heh [03:20]
ThickAsThieves lol [03:20]
ThickAsThieves we do it cuz we love you mp [03:20]
Bugpowder You should get the line before it too. [03:20]
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Bugpowder A prediction of the future [03:20]
Bugpowder Feb 27, 2014. [03:20]
benkay mircea_popescu's having software trubbles [03:21]
benkay lol prole problems [03:21]
davout 2015 -> "intern accidentally deletes mpex" [03:21]
benkay proleblems [03:21]
benkay !b 1 [03:21]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( [03:21]
mircea_popescu benkay the sad part of this of course being that this is actually according to spec i wrote myself. [03:21]
benkay wow the spec didn't account for all edge cases [03:21]
mircea_popescu at a time long ago when nobody had heard of such a case or imagined it likely. [03:21]
benkay color my ass surprised [03:21]
mircea_popescu no, that's the problem : it did. [03:21]
mircea_popescu it accounted for cases i duly forgot about and then happened [03:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06700005 = 0.335 BTC [+] [03:22]
benkay oh well then [03:22]
benkay mp wrote a spec that performs [03:22]
benkay color my ass surprised? [03:22]
benkay just joshin ya boss [03:23]
mircea_popescu anyway, mpoebot isn't quoting because the derivation among exchanges is too large, and likely won't until this is resolved somehow. [03:23]
kakobrekla why was the last quote 13923716xx then [03:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06700005 = 0.335 BTC [+] [03:24]
Bugpowder That seems more plausible [03:24]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla because then somehow (?!) the bitcoincharts avg came out as 537 [03:25]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 564 @ 0.00023993 = 0.1353 BTC [-] {4} [03:25]
mircea_popescu which i still have no idea how [03:25]
Bugpowder mircea_popescu taps his keyboard of +3 plausibility. [03:25]
kakobrekla arite. [03:25]
mircea_popescu anyway ppls thanks for bringing it up lol. [03:26]
mircea_popescu by being in -assets i get the chance to learn how mpoebot etc actually work. [03:26]
mircea_popescu of course...this opnes up a fucking conundrum from hell, [03:26]
mircea_popescu because i am currently carrying a shitton of puts, which i would contractually be allowed to execute at the 430 bs bitcoincharts price [03:27]
benkay ;;ticker --market btcavg [03:27]
gribble BitcoinAverage BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 652.46, Best ask: 654.28, Bid-ask spread: 1.82000, Last trade: 654.25, 24 hour volume: 39430.17, 24 hour low: None, 24 hour high: None, 24 hour vwap: 647.65 [03:27]
mircea_popescu hmm i wonder where that's from. [03:28]
mircea_popescu nanotube where does gribble get ;;ticker --market btcavg data from ? [03:28]
TomServo I'd guess [03:29]
Bugpowder EXERCISE THAT SHIT [03:29]
TomServo Not sure why that's not the default tbh [03:29]
nanotube mircea_popescu: [03:29]
mircea_popescu a ty. [03:29]
mircea_popescu TomServo who runs it ? do you know ? [03:29]
Bugpowder It's 23,000BTC worth [03:30]
Bugpowder EXERCISE [03:30]
Bugpowder MAKE DAT MONEY [03:30]
TomServo mircea_popescu: I don't, sorry. [03:30]
Bugpowder 12,000BTC PROFIT [03:30]
nanotube mircea_popescu: bitnumus [03:30]
mircea_popescu aha. [03:30]
nanotube mircea_popescu: bitcoincharts average got messed up one day, because accidentally pushed dogecoin trade data in place of bitcoin - thus producing high volume at really low price, and screwing things up. [03:32]
mircea_popescu nanotube was that day like feb 14th ? [03:33]
nanotube i think charts has removed for the moment [03:33]
nanotube erhm... let me see [03:33]
benkay #bitcoin-assets [03:33]
nanotube nope, that event was on feb 10 [03:33]
benkay testing in production since 2011 [03:33]
benkay !b 7 [03:34]
assbot Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( [03:34]
nanotube heh [03:34]
BingoBoingo Looks like x-bt had its first ATC trade [03:37]
pankkake there's a usuability issue, when you put an order, you get into the page in POST mode; refreshing it would likely submit the order a second time [03:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00087806 = 8.8684 BTC [-] [03:38]
Apocalyptic it wouldn't pankkake [03:39]
mircea_popescu what's the url again ? [03:39]
Apocalyptic csrf one-time token on every form [03:39]
pankkake oh, right [03:39]
pankkake [03:39]
BingoBoingo [03:39]
ozbot X-BT - The new marketplace for trading Bitcoin with Litecoin, Namecoin and Altcoin [03:39]
ozbot X-BT - The new marketplace for trading Bitcoin with Litecoin, Namecoin and Altcoin [03:40]
mircea_popescu ty [03:40]
Apocalyptic unless you submit it before the script has a chance to set the new token ofc [03:40]
mircea_popescu um... [03:40]
pankkake I'm trying a herbijujular strategy! [03:40]
mircea_popescu you don't disable tokens after use ? [03:40]
cads mircea_popescu: I'm looking for introductory materials in quantitative finance with focus on hedge funds and derivatives valuation. Any input in this direction? [03:40]
mircea_popescu cads it'd deeply depend on what your background is. [03:40]
mircea_popescu pure math no finance ? [03:40]
benkay cads: joshi, derivatives. [03:41]
mircea_popescu i r guess ms joshi can't hurt [03:41]
cads mircea_popescu: some economics and game theory [03:41]
mircea_popescu "on becoming a quant", see if you hate it [03:42]
mircea_popescu iirc it was free [03:42]
cads math background is category theory, algebra, graphs and computation/logic [03:42]
benkay [03:42]
benkay that'd be the piece in question, cads. [03:42]
cads cool, I'll give joshi a spin [03:43]
benkay also jc hull [03:43]
benkay options derivatives and stuff [03:43]
benkay req'd reading. [03:43]
mircea_popescu bear in mind that quants are idiots tho. always important to keep this clearly in your head [03:43]
* cads is still woefully inadequate in analysis [03:43]
mircea_popescu lest you end up believing your imagination has some bearing on reality. [03:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 582 @ 0.00083559 = 0.4863 BTC [+] [03:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06799997 = 0.408 BTC [+] [03:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06799997 = 0.34 BTC [+] [03:45]
mircea_popescu on which topic n taleb's stuff can't be sufficiently recommended i guess. [03:46]
cads mircea_popescu: Haha you mean quantitative models don't magically reorganize reality into your will? [03:46]
mircea_popescu exactly [03:46]
mircea_popescu and what's worse : [03:46]
BingoBoingo The herbi lesson where you place orders based on how you want the book to look rather than on how you could buy and sell at palatable prices. [03:46]
mircea_popescu this remains true no matter how breathtakingly beautiful, elegant or symetrical they be. [03:46]
benkay no mircea_popescu you see i have this model and it shows that if things were different things would be different [03:46]
mircea_popescu i have a different model. [03:47]
mircea_popescu the volatility in this chan is fantasitc, not two hours ago we were discussing the new and improved ordering whereby you get more phonenumber with your order, [03:48]
mircea_popescu now we're knee deep in kaballah, [03:48]
mircea_popescu it never ends with you people. [03:48]
benkay quantitative finance -> kabbalah [03:49]
benkay i'll buy that one ;) [03:49]
mircea_popescu benkay what do you think numeric/quantitative methods are ? [03:50]
mircea_popescu re asciilifeform's coin of dry spittle. [03:51]
cads I've been butting heads with the stochastic calculus and I think I'm about ready to start reading Probability with Martingales - random variables, random processes, and statistics are starting to feel a lot more natural. [03:51]
BingoBoingo The stuff that made Madonna dump A-Rod because his Batting average and WAR stopped being good numbers. [03:51]
cads Surprisingly so.... I'd hate for it to go to my head, though :) [03:52]
mircea_popescu cads you seen the predictonator ? [03:52]
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cads Sounds like something a fund manager would name his secret pet model [03:54]
benkay mircea_popescu: stochastic simulations, generally? you'd know more than me... [03:55]
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benkay i was cracking wise about the technical folks' tendency to resort to blind incantations. [03:55]
mircea_popescu [03:55]
ozbot Man vs. Machine. [03:55]
mircea_popescu tjhat thing [03:55]
mircea_popescu benkay but dja know what the kabbalist ppl mostly do ? [03:56]
cads the thing I find very useful about the calculus is that, forget finance, say you're dealing with an arrival process in a factory production cell or in an autonomous agent - now /that/ is a situation where your models basically become the magic word of god. [03:57]
mircea_popescu this is true. [03:57]
benkay mircea_popescu: what? [03:57]
benkay cads: you can find greater job satisfaction at a lower rate doing stochastic inventory and supply chain stuff. that said, you have to live in factories or warehouses and interact with line staff from time to time. [03:58]
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mircea_popescu benkay you familiar with how if you read only the nth letter in an arbitrary string you may find a message in there ? [03:58]
benkay mircea_popescu: yup [03:58]
mircea_popescu that, then. [03:58]
cads benkay: I currently /am/ a factory worker :) [03:59]
mircea_popescu and various variations and generalisations [03:59]
benkay stochastic extraction of "sensible" strings from longer ones? [03:59]
mircea_popescu which all amount to basically "let's find the parametric function of the future" or meaning or w/e [03:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 785 @ 0.00024797 = 0.1947 BTC [+] [03:59]
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benkay cads: well then there ain't nowhere to go but up! [04:00]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.55999949 = 1.12 BTC [+] {2} [04:02]
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cads So knowing the nth letter of say an english message will definitely give a probability distribution for things like "what word does this letter belong to" or "is this the middle or end of a word." [04:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00087779 = 21.4181 BTC [-] {2} [04:04]
mircea_popescu cads except that's the correct way to use numeric methods [04:04]
mircea_popescu (ie, as to the message processed) [04:04]
mircea_popescu the kabbalistic approach is to use them in the manner global warmists use their "data" [04:04]
mircea_popescu ie, to predict or enact the word of gawd. [04:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02579995 = 0.1032 BTC [-] [04:05]
mircea_popescu (because you see, everything is in the torah, including the birthdate of your future wife you;ve not yet met, as well as the name of her secret lover) [04:06]
benkay this is true of π as well. [04:06]
mircea_popescu it is also true of the assets bash. [04:06]
benkay oh, our corpus isn't quite *that* large or *that* stochastic now... [04:07]
BingoBoingo And the trillions of hashes per second which aren't good enough to find blocks. [04:07]
mircea_popescu nevertheless it includes by reference enough material. [04:07]
cads This is why I refuse to learn finance first. I'd rather take whatever math intuition handicap than be caught using theorems whose conditions are not satisfied. [04:08]
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mircea_popescu cads you'll never be popular with the fiat-finance crowds, [04:08]
mircea_popescu but at least you can always hang out here. [04:08]
Bugpowder You could probably do well in the just-dice groupie scene too [04:10]
kakobrekla lol price on gox just went 370->530 [04:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6034 @ 0.0008728 = 5.2665 BTC [-] {2} [04:11]
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Bugpowder god damn it [04:11]
cads oh yeah, I'd heard of a sizeable market crash. [04:11]
Bugpowder time for the bot to start quoting again [04:11]
benkay ;;ticker --market mtgox [04:12]
gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 440.0, Best ask: 442.97, Bid-ask spread: 2.97000, Last trade: 450.0, 24 hour volume: 53582.53478578, 24 hour low: 310.0, 24 hour high: 540.0, 24 hour vwap: 368.92604 [04:12]
Bugpowder Roger Ver's deposit cleared [04:12]
benkay the "ship to forum sockpuppets" asic ploy. [04:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re: von neumann widget, lol. can't wait for some joker to start 'predicting market' [04:12]
pankkake successful trolling I guess [04:12]
ozbot MtGox bitcoin withdrawals working again : Bitcoin [04:12]
mircea_popescu start ?! [04:12]
cads is now tracking bitstamp rather than gox? [04:12]
mircea_popescu cads pretty much everyone is. [04:12]
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mircea_popescu ;;ticker [04:13]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 666.0, Best ask: 669.0, Bid-ask spread: 3.00000, Last trade: 666.0, 24 hour volume: 20510.92582860, 24 hour low: 628.88, 24 hour high: 673.01, 24 hour vwap: 650.017359511 [04:13]
cads Do we have arbitrage between gox and bitstamp? [04:13]
mircea_popescu gox is kinda dead [04:13]
cads gotcha [04:14]
cads 'Transaction Malleability'!? [04:15]
asciilifeform benkay: the "ship to forum sockpuppets" asic ploy << there is much to be learned from carnival / stage magic tradecraft re: scams [04:15]
mircea_popescu carnies. definitely. [04:15]
asciilifeform the 'plant in the audience' recipe, etc. [04:15]
mircea_popescu cads [04:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15141 @ 0.00087184 = 13.2005 BTC [-] [04:16]
mircea_popescu check me out :D [04:16]
ozbot #bitcoin-assets log [04:16]
mircea_popescu also : [04:17]
mircea_popescu Kickstarter hacked, user data stolen [04:17]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 139 @ 0.0008356 = 0.1161 BTC [+] [04:17]
mircea_popescu [04:17]
ozbot Kickstarter hacked, user data stolen | Security & Privacy - CNET News [04:17]
Bugpowder old [04:17]
mircea_popescu lol how old is it ? [04:17]
Bugpowder at least 4 hours [04:17]
mircea_popescu derp. [04:17]
cads Since when the fuck does bitcoin have fucking transaction fucking MALLEABILITY?! [04:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00083588 = 0.2508 BTC [+] [04:18]
Jere_Jones This url should be spouted here more often: 'Tis fucking awesome. [04:18]
Bugpowder cads: at least 4 hours [04:18]
cads Wow! [04:18]
copumpkin cads: it's been known since 2011 [04:18]
mircea_popescu cads like 2009 dood [04:18]
copumpkin it isn't really all that much of a problem [04:18]
copumpkin if you're aware of it, which it turns out nobody was [04:19]
mircea_popescu who the hell wasn't srsly. [04:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.000836 = 0.2508 BTC [+] [04:19]
copumpkin all the major exchanges and the "official" bitcoin-qt client :P [04:19]
mircea_popescu i think it was a topic of discussion at least monthly. [04:19]
copumpkin well, they all failed at it in some way or another [04:19]
mircea_popescu in this sense security qualifies. [04:19]
copumpkin anyway, it wasn't a threat of loss of bitcoins [04:20]
copumpkin unless you layer additional stupidity on top of it [04:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 261 @ 0.0008375 = 0.2186 BTC [+] [04:20]
copumpkin which mtgox apparently did [04:20]
mircea_popescu or so they say. [04:20]
benkay copumpkin: do you write in public anywhere? [04:20]
copumpkin I tweet occasionally [04:20]
copumpkin why? [04:20]
mircea_popescu because he likes you and would like to get to know you better. [04:21]
mircea_popescu in a more intimate manner. [04:21]
cads secsooally [04:21]
mircea_popescu no homo. [04:21]
mircea_popescu benkay you know he's the asshole who stole my bentley and gave it to a bunch of kids from like poor countries in india or some shit, and in exchange they hacked a bunch of iphones for him [04:22]
mircea_popescu or nokias or whatever it was. [04:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 1000 @ 0.0055 = 5.5 BTC [04:22]
cads "While transactions are signed, the signature does not currently cover all the data in a transaction that is hashed to create the transaction hash. " [04:22]
cads Wut. [04:22]
mircea_popescu cause meta. [04:22]
BingoBoingo Doesn't he also keep a bunch of tomatoes prisoner or am I confused. [04:23]
mircea_popescu no that's copineaple. [04:23]
mircea_popescu no relation. [04:23]
copumpkin :) [04:23]
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benkay bwaaaaat [04:23]
cads mircea_popescu: I'm going to investigate the excuse don't worry :D [04:23]
benkay anyways, this malleability thing as mentioned above is not really a flaw, cads. [04:23]
mircea_popescu it's a feature! [04:24]
benkay the flaw is in people using the txid as a bookkeeping device which satoshi explicitly warned against iirc [04:24]
pankkake apparently there are easy improvements [04:24]
mircea_popescu like tits, they get cold and flop arouind and your nipples hurt and everything, [04:24]
copumpkin it's not ideal and the devs are trying to adjust it [04:24]
mircea_popescu but they're defo not a flaw. [04:24]
mircea_popescu benkay yeah he did. [04:24]
mircea_popescu course he did because block reorgs iirc. [04:24]
benkay prezactly. [04:24]
copumpkin so, on a more important note [04:25]
copumpkin cloud atlas. [04:25]
copumpkin worth watching or not? [04:25]
copumpkin I like the soundtrack [04:25]
cads who composes? [04:25]
mircea_popescu watch it abd blog about the experience, i never saw it. [04:25]
BingoBoingo Anyways, the problem in Gox's case is they kept leading zeros in their signatures. Everyone else was like STFU that's dumb. Eventually some nodes started correcting this mistake. [04:25]
mircea_popescu ^ that'd be acurate. [04:26]
mircea_popescu mtgox was at least 5 times told to stop with the idiocy. [04:26]
BingoBoingo Cutting those zeros changed the txid though. [04:26]
cads copumpkin: You've got me piqued on the soundtrack [04:26]
mircea_popescu but apparently the php lolcat interpreter adds leading 0's to O RLY?/OIC blocks or something [04:27]
copumpkin cads: it's pretty good [04:27]
cads if a soundtrack is good I usually watch the movie [04:27]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well so far it is at least two mistakes on Gox's part leading zeros and txid as database primary key. [04:27]
mircea_popescu i dun buy it. [04:28]
BingoBoingo Well, then there is the third mistake, scam. [04:28]
asciilifeform re: tx issue: this is reminiscent of microshit's EXE signing. where you can append whatever to the signed turd and it still passes checksum. [04:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 391 @ 0.00043898 = 0.1716 BTC [+] {2} [04:29]
BingoBoingo Mark's face is shaped in such a way, I imagine, he imagines he can just hug away the scam. [04:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 599 @ 0.00043899 = 0.263 BTC [+] {3} [04:30]
cads copumpkin: you're right, this is good [04:31]
copumpkin I'm a big fan of the tune in sonmi-451 meets chang, and the various times it recurs throughout the rest of the soundtrack [04:32]
copumpkin it picks up about halfway through [04:32]
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Bugpowder Mark : [04:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the diference here being of course that you're not expected to run the whole turd [04:33]
mircea_popescu just the signed part. [04:33]
Bugpowder [04:33]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: right. you arrange to have the turd jumped to after sig check. [04:34]
mircea_popescu well yeah in ashell environment. not quite that much flexibility in bitcoin scrupting [04:37]
mircea_popescu one thing i can't for the fucking life of me understand is why on earth has nobody made an actual competing implementation. [04:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06799997 = 0.136 BTC [+] [04:37]
mircea_popescu there are > 450964509860954 copy/paste alt coins [04:37]
mircea_popescu yet nobody went "ok, the ideas are quite clear, let's do this then" [04:37]
asciilifeform copy/paste vs. actual thinking. [04:37]
mircea_popescu there are 5k universities proposing they have cs departments, which is a fraud [04:37]
asciilifeform as described by herr mold. [04:38]
mircea_popescu as in a sane world no uni with a cs department could have done anything else in 2013 as a term paper [04:38]
Bugpowder man, gox back down to where it started... what a derp [04:38]
mircea_popescu than "make a bitcoin implementation" [04:38]
asciilifeform [04:38]
ozbot Unqualified Reservations: What's wrong with CS research [04:38]
mircea_popescu forget research even you know ? [04:38]
benkay mircea_popescu: it's a goddamn shame that everyone's leaving it to the self-taught hacks [04:38]
mircea_popescu this'd have been anyone's term project if i were teaching. [04:39]
mircea_popescu benkay ikr? [04:39]
benkay mircea_popescu: cs departments are for research. mechanical and ee departments are apparently where you learn to actually weld shit together. [04:39]
cads shame and opportunity [04:39]
Bugpowder How to blow 1000BTC in under 5 minutes. [04:39]
mircea_popescu and i seriously do not understand what a rector must be thinking to not close down their cs department after this [04:39]
cads how fitting [04:39]
copumpkin not sure I'd say it was blown, Bugpowder [04:39]
mircea_popescu "what, you have not implemented bitcoin as a term project ? you're defunded. 100%" [04:39]
benkay yup. [04:39]
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asciilifeform can't speak for other unis, the cs dept. i studied in was a vacuum cleaner for slurping up DOD moneys [04:40]
mircea_popescu fucking bs. [04:40]
asciilifeform that is its primary function, with the students as an afterthought (read: source of cheap labour) [04:40]
benkay most us unis i've been to are similarly oriented around hoovering up research + dod monies asciilifeform [04:40]
mircea_popescu we're fortunate to live in a world where nobody has any clear measuring stick to be able to measure exactly how tall the pile of shameful excrement they find themselves under is. [04:41]
mircea_popescu so they can go around pretending like they're things they could never be. [04:41]
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asciilifeform perhaps vaccum cleaner is the wrong picture. more of an idiot with mouth open, catching raindrops. [04:41]
mircea_popescu "humanities" "professors" that have no idea what a college is and can not speak latin, [04:41]
mircea_popescu cs professors who failed to have the kids implement bitcoin in 2013 [04:41]
mircea_popescu all the unspeakable depth of pitecantropic refuse [04:42]
asciilifeform give it another decade... we implemented 'sed'. [04:42]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe i'm blinded by zeal but seems to me sed is actually harder. [04:42]
asciilifeform 'yesterday's nobel prize is tomorrow's homework' [04:42]
asciilifeform sed is arguably harder. [04:42]
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cads I'd love to see a haskell or agda implementation [04:43]
mircea_popescu bitcoin once explained by satoshi is not actually hard in any sense [04:43]
asciilifeform and is 'politically' safe. [04:43]
mircea_popescu merely gotta do the work. [04:43]
mircea_popescu which is what cs depts are for. [04:43]
asciilifeform implementing btc would be a little like having the mech eng. students build a working howitzer. [04:43]
mircea_popescu so ? [04:43]
benkay hah [04:43]
mircea_popescu i definitely would. [04:44]
asciilifeform arguably imperative, but we live in bizarroworld [04:44]
benkay more like a potato gun [04:44]
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mircea_popescu da fuck mech engineer you are can't build a hovitzer [04:44]
benkay u want shells too sir? [04:44]
jayk hmmm [04:44]
asciilifeform obligatory link to the MIT lamp video! [04:44]
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mircea_popescu benkay you don't have to make the shells actually do anything you know ? [04:45]
asciilifeform [04:45]
ozbot MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube [04:45]
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mircea_popescu a howitzer can fire blanks on the football field just fine [04:45]
asciilifeform correct. [04:45]
benkay sure but then you're not really putting the barrel through its paces are you? [04:45]
mircea_popescu or for that matter make it fire solid metal ordnance. [04:45]
asciilifeform (i once discovered that my uni used to have a rifle range. gone.) [04:45]
mircea_popescu at a wall or stack of sand bags or w/e [04:45]
cads mircea_popescu: sell some Coq nerds on the importance of implementing a formally verified blockchain algorithm and further specialization to a btc implementation :) [04:46]
MisterE_ asciilifeform: is right, education is a business before all esle [04:46]
mircea_popescu cads know any ? [04:46]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Most Land Grants had them back in the day. [04:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00087607 = 12.1774 BTC [+] {2} [04:46]
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asciilifeform it's hilarious. they have people 'formally verify' DRM crud. [04:46]
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asciilifeform glass bead game. [04:47]
mircea_popescu apparently pitecantropic is not an english word. odd. [04:47]
cads mircea_popescu: just acquaintances on irc. [04:47]
mircea_popescu anyway, reference to the "java man" [04:47]
mircea_popescu cads so send them over. [04:47]
asciilifeform try 'pithecantropic' ? [04:47]
mircea_popescu a ok [04:47]
mircea_popescu pithecanthropus [04:48]
cads oh, key, copumpkin is also a #coq regular [04:48]
mircea_popescu o ya definitely likes the c0q [04:48]
copumpkin cads: we've spoken in all sorts of different places :P [04:48]
asciilifeform re: c0qlovers and proof-of-whatever: a particularly egregious case of glass bead game. [04:49]
asciilifeform (as discussed in a turd of mine, and elsewhere) [04:49]
benkay glass bead game? [04:49]
asciilifeform attempts at 'transitioning from the informal to the formal by formal means'. [04:49]
cads asciilifeform: it's always been one great misgiving of mine whenever I read papers on large formally verified software projects [04:50]
asciilifeform (see also [04:50]
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cads for example UC's Quark verified browser kernel or the NICTA's l4.verified project. [04:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 797 @ 0.00024797 = 0.1976 BTC [+] [04:51]
benkay cads: what kind of factory worker reads about formal verification of large software projects?! [04:51]
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asciilifeform the whole 'automated proofs' business is fundamentally turdalicious [04:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you mean as a hesse reference ? [04:54]
asciilifeform yes [04:54]
cads I appreciate that we can create a kernel of security properties and then prove it about our access control model, and then build the system on that. [04:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 703 @ 0.00024797 = 0.1743 BTC [+] [04:54]
asciilifeform it is an attempt to hide head in the sand, escape from the fact that the only way to guarantee expected function is: actual understanding [04:54]
asciilifeform by actual brains [04:54]
benkay you mean brians [04:55]
asciilifeform and this requires a 'bonfire of the' complexity. [04:55]
cads And I appreciate that this makes it /easier/ to avoid bugs - the only place a bug can now live is in the security properties you prove about your access model. [04:55]
cads And that's the part that hits my stomach with dread. [04:55]
mircea_popescu right [04:56]
mircea_popescu you can now have no bugs except that sort of bugs you'll never find [04:56]
cads Since /those/ bugs are embedded in philosophy [04:56]
mircea_popescu right [04:57]
asciilifeform or something as mundane as the hardware. [04:57]
cads But I'm optimistic since we can study the theory of what should constitute a correct and effective security property [04:57]
asciilifeform the entire field, giving its history and monetary incentives, is a poisonous offering. [04:58]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.02579995 = 0.258 BTC [-] [04:58]
cads It does feel like you're concentrating the bugs into a very rare and amazingly lucrative bug class [04:59]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [04:59]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+] [04:59]
asciilifeform we aren't seeing proof in the mathematical sense. only (apologies to bush the lesser) - 'proofiness.' [05:01]
asciilifeform the idea that bugs are being banished anywhere by this obscurantist crap is nonsense. [05:01]
asciilifeform example, for the thick: [05:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00087836 = 10.2768 BTC [+] [05:02]
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asciilifeform 'ECC' memory is largely absent from consumer turdware. i wait for the box running your 'proofy' crap to be hit by cosmic ray. [05:03]
cads hmm, the verified software I've read about uses security properties which are proven via a formal proof assistant in a standard logic. [05:03]
asciilifeform suddenly not so verified any more. [05:03]
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asciilifeform go ahead, prove anything useful about an x86 box where an arbitrary bit might flip. [05:04]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.06899996 = 1.104 BTC [+] {3} [05:05]
asciilifeform (if cosmic rays are insufficient, someone might be so kind as to pump some ionizing strange through your server. or merely turn up the thermostat in the cage. etc.) [05:05]
cads fair enough, then even the most correct formally proven software should expect some faults due to underlying hardware. [05:05]
cads hm [05:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06899998 = 0.414 BTC [+] {2} [05:06]
mircea_popescu derp. [05:06]
asciilifeform of course, no need for such shenanigans if the box is already built of 'cooperative' iron. [05:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06999998 = 0.7 BTC [+] {2} [05:07]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform your dream of software that's unauditable by the user is getting closer and closer huh [05:08]
asciilifeform eh, it might as well be already [05:08]
cads asciilifeform: that brings us to study methods of invalidating the security properties by changing aspects of the substrate system that the security properties gloss over or assume by fiat. [05:08]
cads neat [05:09]
asciilifeform garden variety winblows box could busy a thousand auditors for a thousand years. [05:09]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06999999 = 0.35 BTC [+] [05:11]
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cads We can always dream about strong encryption for state machine dynamics. [05:12]
cads Which could give us some padding between the software agent and untrusted underlying hardware. [05:12]
asciilifeform cads: exists (provably not in the general case, but for many particular cases, sure) [05:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14385 @ 0.00087519 = 12.5896 BTC [-] [05:13]
cads right, currently it's amazingly inefficient and not general, and I also believe there are unfortunate theoretical limits to the power of any such approach [05:13]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [05:13]
asciilifeform problem is (well, depending on how you look), the consumer is to be on the 'wrong end of the barrel' for this one. [05:13]
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cads how so? [05:13]
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asciilifeform cads: look who is working on this, and why. or do i have to draw a picture. [05:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 68 @ 0.07 = 4.76 BTC [+] [05:14]
cads you may have to excuse my ignorance of the commercial or political side of this work [05:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00297 = 0.1069 BTC [+] [05:15]
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cads I came up with the idea of encrypted computing when I was thinking how to design an autonomous AI agent that cannot ever have its state vector interrogated or partially simulated. [05:16]
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asciilifeform turdware vendors are mightily annoyed that the occasional consumer, 'smarter than average rabbit', pries open and exposes their turdwork. [05:16]
mircea_popescu neat << good point actually. [05:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00087843 = 3.4259 BTC [+] {2} [05:17]
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cads So that if an adversary has captured the state vector they can only continue to simulate it faithfully [05:17]
mircea_popescu now that'd be interesting. [05:17]
mircea_popescu i'd like a mpex like thatr. [05:17]
asciilifeform cads: i reinvented the concept, as probably just about every maths student has, when first reading about Paillier's Addition and thinking 'what if you glue this to OISC - 'jump if zero' - machine. [05:17]
cads wow, nice [05:18]
asciilifeform no heroic feat here. [05:18]
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cads right, I guess to jump from homomorphic encryption to obfuscated computation is a natural one. [05:19]
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asciilifeform [05:19]
ozbot Paillier cryptosystem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [05:19]
asciilifeform and [05:20]
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asciilifeform one neglected aspect of homomorphic turdcraft (let's assume that it were possible and practical in some general-'enough' case! for the sake of argument) is: [05:24]
asciilifeform unless you are carrying out the compilation with paper and pencil, [05:24]
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asciilifeform you are forever doomed to trust the mechanism whereby you generated the cryptoturd. [05:24]
cads okay, so in our Paillier OISC we'd use subtract and branch of != 0, or subtract and branch if <= 0. [05:24]
asciilifeform because the result can never be verified. [05:24]
asciilifeform (verified to do what you intended it to.) [05:24]
cads Only with pallier operations [05:24]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.005498 = 0.2749 BTC [+] [05:25]
cads wait how do we implement the order relation on the ciphertext version of the data [05:26]
asciilifeform cads: not so simple. you can't have the machine actually branch in any obvious sense [05:26]
asciilifeform or an observer could deduce logic [05:27]
cads right that would surely give the game away for most things [05:27]
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asciilifeform incidentally [05:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06799997 = 0.136 BTC [-] [05:28]
asciilifeform wiki used to have a page on 'joseki' (not to be confused with the Go players' term) [05:28]
Mats_cd03 Complicated technical gibbering, mundane, cryptodongs, etc [05:28]
asciilifeform nsa cryptosystem, circa 1980s. implied to function on this principle. [05:28]
asciilifeform page was zapped some time ago. [05:28]
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asciilifeform (it was used in military firmware) [05:29]
* asciilifeform ought to clear some snow so gasenwagen can park. [05:29]
cads [05:30]
ozbot JOSEKI (cipher) - Crypto Wiki [05:30]
asciilifeform something like that [05:30]
asciilifeform if i recall [05:30]
asciilifeform maybe it was just my imagination. [05:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00087767 = 18.7821 BTC [-] [05:33]
benkay [05:33]
Mats_cd03 Big words followed by math things [05:33]
asciilifeform shannonizer? [05:34]
asciilifeform somebody ought to stoke one with this channel log. [05:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19148 @ 0.00087854 = 16.8223 BTC [+] [05:34]
benkay amen [05:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19099 @ 0.0008787 = 16.7823 BTC [+] {2} [05:35]
asciilifeform and now for something completely different: [05:36]
asciilifeform [05:36]
ozbot ClubOrlov: “American” exceptionalism [05:36]
Mats_cd03 i belieb in american exceptionalism [05:36]
benkay Mats_cd03: are you on cocaine? [05:37]
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Mats_cd03 im high on life nigga [05:37]
benkay hm [05:37]
mircea_popescu lmao! so very different [05:37]
benkay well i bleed american capitalism [05:37]
mircea_popescu ;;google trilema exceptionalismul personal [05:37]
gribble No matches found. [05:37]
benkay the old kind [05:37]
mircea_popescu eh gtfo google. [05:37]
mircea_popescu [05:37]
ozbot Exceptionalismul personal pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [05:37]
mircea_popescu i do not make the mistake of positing it's romanian! [05:38]
mircea_popescu it's just stupiditarian. [05:38]
Mats_cd03 american capitalism smells like fast food grease and dick cheese [05:38]
Mats_cd03 not recommended for date night [05:38]
benkay these days certainly. [05:39]
benkay once upon a time it smelled like blood and money. [05:39]
asciilifeform if you're exceptionally lucky, it smells like the hangar where howard hughes farted in '72. [05:39]
asciilifeform but if you want a better smell, you'll need a time machine. [05:40]
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benkay yeah. people were cool once. [05:42]
Mats_cd03 i watched the aviator so yeah i can pretend like i know what youre talking about [05:42]
TestingUnoDosTre lies. when was that? [05:42]
benkay 1806-1859. [05:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68300 @ 0.00087502 = 59.7639 BTC [-] {4} [05:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16252 @ 0.00087481 = 14.2174 BTC [-] [05:50]
cads hmm [05:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.002973 = 0.446 BTC [+] [05:52]
mircea_popescu people were cool from circa 1600 to about ww1. [05:52]
mircea_popescu then orwell's bugmen took over. [05:53]
benkay orwell's responsible for modern socialism? [05:53]
asciilifeform mr. o blamed the telegraph [05:53]
mircea_popescu no, but he described the type. [05:53]
asciilifeform (bugmen like central admin.) [05:53]
cads so joseki is a two part encryption decryption function E, D such that in some sense "the encryption algorithm is not the same as, and cannot be deduced from, the decryption algorithm." [05:54]
mircea_popescu makes this observation how the only sort of people who seem to trive in his dystopia are bug-like [05:54]
mircea_popescu short stubbly crab-like in movements etc. [05:54]
benkay ;;calc 59.7639 + 14.2174 [05:55]
gribble 73.9813 [05:55]
cads You can decrypt the existing operating system. [05:55]
cads To do that you read the bootstrap key. [05:55]
cads But once doing that, say you want to alter the code. You can't do that. [05:55]
cads For you cannot re-encrypt the code. [05:55]
asciilifeform implication is that this achieved something more than one can get by merely hashing & signing code. [05:55]
cads there's a million ways to subvert either [05:56]
cads just burn some of the traces on the bootstrap chip and suddenly it loads your unencrypted code just fine [05:57]
asciilifeform "On the far side of the room, sitting at a table alone, a small, curiously beetle-like man was drinking a cup of coffee, his little eyes darting suspicious glances from side to side. How easy it was, thought Winston, if you did not look about you, to believe that the physical type set up by the Party as an ideal-tall muscular youths and deep-bosomed maidens, blond-haired, vital, sunburnt, carefree - existed and [05:57]
asciilifeform even predominated. Actually, so far as he could judge, the majority of people in Airstrip One were small, dark, and ill-favoured. It was curious how that beetle-like type proliferated in the Ministries: little dumpy men, growing stout very early in life, with short legs, swift scuttling movements, and fat inscrutable faces with very small eyes. It was the type that seemed to flourish best under the dominion of [05:57]
asciilifeform the Party." [05:57]
mircea_popescu ty. [05:57]
asciilifeform ('1984') [05:57]
cads ... assuming you have a scanning tunneling electron microscope lying around. [05:57]
mircea_popescu implication is that this achieved something more than one can get by merely hashing & signing code. << fwiw i don't believe it does or could. [05:58]
asciilifeform cads: J. was devised for some unknown, godforsaken 1980s silicon. perhaps it sat the decryptor between the memory bus and cpu proper [05:58]
Jere_Jones How does an exchange that implements stop losses prevent a large order from crashing the market? If a large order comes in and wipes out the orderbook past serveral stop losses, those sells get executed after the large order right? They don't get interwoven with the large order? Interwoven seems harder to do and/or incorrect and/or unethical. That means that a stop loss can't actually [05:59]
Jere_Jones stop a loss if the market is relatively shallow. Am I misunderstanding something? [05:59]
* TestingUnoDosTre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [05:59]
mircea_popescu stop losses are usually offered as a best-effort thing, not as a guarantee [06:00]
mircea_popescu even in serious markets. [06:00]
benkay is there a ranking of purely crypto exchanges by vol? [06:00]
Jere_Jones And they do get executed after the order that dropped the price? Not interwoven? [06:00]
mircea_popescu there's no such thing as "interwoven" [06:01]
mircea_popescu that's why blocks are blocks. [06:01]
Jere_Jones Didn't think so. Thanks. [06:01]
mircea_popescu course, god knows what btc webmasters do. [06:01]
mircea_popescu but if you "interwoven" on nyse the sec will put your head on a pike on columbus ave. [06:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: angels/pinhead, etc. one could easily picture something clever (block cipher allowing direct execution of crypted instructions, without an intermediate buffer for mass decrypt) or something foolish. [06:01]
Jere_Jones That sounds less than pleasant. [06:02]
asciilifeform we'll know when an american Mitrohin or Rezun lifts the specs. [06:02]
cads asciilifeform: in that case couldn't we say the same of hashing? Although I admit. Putting the decryptor somewhere in the main flow of the system has panache, and I wouldn't be surprised if a similar approach hashing is a lot less natural. [06:02]
benkay ;;calc 74*600 [06:03]
gribble 44400 [06:03]
asciilifeform cads: idea probably was, you'd like to block-cipher the blob, but don't want to send a symmetric key (however contained) into the field. [06:03]
cads right [06:04]
asciilifeform so you want something opposite to 'rsa' [06:04]
asciilifeform (where 'anyone enciphers, only one reads') [06:04]
asciilifeform exercise for alert reader! [06:05]
cads ;) [06:05]
asciilifeform deduce a working 'joseki'-like cryptosystem. [06:05]
asciilifeform (undergrad level problem.) [06:05]
benkay dang asciilifeform you're a taskmaster [06:05]
asciilifeform not like this is hard or anything. [06:05]
benkay well hey some of us are unversed. you have depth in it. [06:06]
cads asciilifeform: I'm confused as to the sense in which the encryption algorithm cannot be derived from the encryption algorithm [06:06]
asciilifeform decryption? [06:06]
cads righ [06:06]
cads is this to say the encryption _key_, can not be derived from the decryption key? [06:07]
asciilifeform not so hard. [06:07]
asciilifeform you have turds of a certain number-theoretical variety, that turn into plaintext when subjected to function F. F(turd) = plain. but you don't know F'(plain) = turd. [06:08]
cads typically the decryption key allows us to derive the encryption key via number theoretic properties [06:08]
asciilifeform cads: with some 'hardness assumption' in the way of practically accomplishing this, yes. [06:08]
asciilifeform but one could conceive of F' being the key itself [06:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34563 @ 0.0008694 = 30.0491 BTC [-] {2} [06:09]
asciilifeform bureaucrats probably came in their pants, they hate the chore of key distribution, etc [06:09]
cads oh hey [06:10]
cads anyone wanna see women cumming while reading books? [06:10]
cads like, actual passages of cool literature like clockwork orange, sitting fully dressed at a table, while something undeniable is going on /under/ the table [06:11]
asciilifeform old hat. [06:11]
cads ah, saw it already? [06:11]
* [7] has quit (Disconnected by services) [06:11]
cads [06:11]
* TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:12]
cads I thought it was really cute [06:12]
cads I liked the essays too [06:12]
cads I felt a bit too vouyeristic while watching to watch all of them, but it was enjoyable [06:13]
mircea_popescu sooo, anyone know a native chinese speaker ? [06:16]
asciilifeform sure. [06:17]
asciilifeform why [06:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29113 @ 0.00086896 = 25.298 BTC [-] {2} [06:17]
mircea_popescu because we have no resident chinese expert. [06:17]
mircea_popescu who ? [06:17]
asciilifeform colleague [06:17]
mircea_popescu so get him to come over! [06:17]
asciilifeform i'll poke him when i visit him on tuesday. [06:18]
mircea_popescu coolness. [06:19]
asciilifeform benkay: under no circumstances should i be confused with an actual expert on crypto [06:19]
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asciilifeform but the practical application of the known building blocks is quite trivial. [06:19]
asciilifeform (somewhat less trivial if you want actual security, rather than a passing exam score, however) [06:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 15 @ 0.19376446 = 2.9065 BTC [+] [06:22]
cads anyways - asciilifeform I understand that. Ie, say we have two functions F and G such that G(F(x)) = x and F(x) is in some sense independent of x. Then (F, G) is a basic kind of cryptosystem, where F is the encryption function and G is the decryption function. For us not to be able to derive F from G, G must be infeasible to invert. I believe F can be encryption with a public key (which in this case the designer will keep public), [06:22]
cads and G is decryption with the corresponding private key (which is included on the chip). It's a bit of an inversion of control of the intention of public key systems but it works for our purpose. [06:22]
cads The only detail I am not sure is about the private -> public derivability of the keys. [06:23]
cads I know bitcoin's scheme allows us to derive a public key from the private one, and that this is actually not typical. [06:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00087169 = 4.1841 BTC [+] [06:25]
cads asciilifeform: you say that we want the 'opposite' of rsa (public decrypt, private encrypt), but... this is just the same as giving the public the private key and keeping the public one secret. [06:26]
benkay thanks for that cads. babe and i just watched stoya's. a+ [06:26]
cads wasn't it /amazing/?! [06:27]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [06:27]
benkay of course the woman's response is "i hate the essay!" [06:27]
benkay wtf not the point [06:27]
benkay maybe the point [06:27]
benkay everything's part of the point i suppose [06:27]
cads I liked stoya's own account [06:27]
asciilifeform cads: nope. [06:28]
asciilifeform having private P,Q you can P*Q and get public. [06:28]
asciilifeform what kind of exercise would this be if the answer involved only this. [06:28]
mircea_popescu benkay stoya, the whore ?! [06:29]
benkay [06:29]
ozbot This Empty Love - InnerPartySystem - YouTube [06:29]
mircea_popescu aok [06:29]
cads mircea_popescu: you must watch this: [06:29]
cads "Hysterical Literature is a video art series by NYC-based photographer and filmmaker Clayton Cubitt. It explores feminism, mind/body dualism, distraction portraiture, and the contrast between culture and sexuality. (It's also just really fun to watch.) " [06:30]
mircea_popescu [06:30]
mircea_popescu the other stoya. [06:30]
cads I'm questioning the feminist merit if only because I still enjoyed the work with a very male gaze :D [06:31]
benkay maybe the same stoya? [06:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1191 @ 0.002973 = 3.5408 BTC [+] [06:31]
cads no, absolutely the same stoya [06:31]
benkay mircea_popescu: you're missing out on all sorts of context not at least sampling videos [06:32]
mircea_popescu i'll live [06:32]
mircea_popescu [06:32]
cads mircea_popescu: the idea is that an unpaid woman sits at a table and opens up a famous literary work she chose, begins to read a key passage, starts having and orgasm, continues trying to read, climaxes, and then closes the book and says "I'm ____ and this has been moby dick" [06:33]
mircea_popescu i'd guess about 35% of adult females can actually orgasm in the situation described. [06:34]
mircea_popescu but! that said orgasm distraction is certanly a fun game. [06:35]
cads Unseen under the table the photographer's lovely assistant is working away with the apparently supernaturally effect hitachi vibrator. [06:35]
benkay !t h rent [06:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (1164 shares, 6.40200000 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (12577 shares, 69.17350000 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (32202 shares, 177.11100000 BTC) [06:35]
mircea_popescu even so. [06:35]
cads right [06:35]
cads it takes dedication to do that [06:36]
cads The first volunteer is stoya the porn star [06:36]
benkay btw that mpex trade, like 74 btc? [06:36]
benkay just about a third of the rentalstarter ipo. [06:36]
cads we know she knows how to cum [06:36]
asciilifeform they make remote-controlled instruments for this kind of work. [06:36]
mircea_popescu she fakes it lots of times you know [06:36]
cads but the other volunteers are women that work in the arts [06:36]
asciilifeform wireless. [06:37]
cads one of the women is a museum curator [06:37]
asciilifeform long gone are the days when a bottle of bees was the state of the art. [06:38]
cads and in their essays it's clear they feel they are helping make sexuality a less dirty, less manipulated thing [06:38]
mircea_popescu i wonder if giving these chicks a book and asking them to read is a legit pick-up now. [06:38]
benkay bahaha [06:38]
benkay oh you [06:38]
mircea_popescu "hello" [06:38]
mircea_popescu "hi ?" [06:38]
mircea_popescu "i saw you on the internet. so here's le diable et le bon dieu, read for me." [06:39]
cads ah, the other thing [06:39]
cads despite being arguably non-pornographic (hosted, as it was, on youtube), the 9 videos in the series got 20 million views [06:40]
mircea_popescu that matters. [06:40]
cads mixed reviews from the critics alternately called it an awesome work of feminism and art, or skeptically denounced it as 'porn, not art'. [06:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06941006 = 0.1388 BTC [-] [06:41]
asciilifeform russian sf author / madman viktor pelevin had a piece where, in the Dark Future (tm) all other types of porn vanish, and only this remains [06:41]
asciilifeform ending up called 'DERP', or 'derivative porn' [06:41]
asciilifeform age of consent raised to 46, so all ordinary porn is forbidden [06:42]
asciilifeform and so what remains is 'porn' with films of the censor's faces [06:42]
asciilifeform viewing the forbidden. [06:42]
* benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [06:42]
cads wait were the faces edited over the actors' [06:43]
mircea_popescu cads << 660mn views. [06:43]
asciilifeform people then frequent quasi-illicit Derp viewings. [06:43]
mircea_popescu i could continue but w/e. [06:43]
cads mircea_popescu: Bahaha. [06:44]
cads I'll leave it up to you to decide what type of logical fallacy you made by throwing Charlie Bit My Finger against the work of a singe avant garde fetish photographer. :D [06:45]
asciilifeform cads: in the tale? nope. just censors viewing That Which Is To Be Deleted [06:45]
asciilifeform and grimacing suggestively [06:45]
asciilifeform at least, as i recall. [06:45]
mircea_popescu cads no, you did. "the 9 videos in the series got 20 million views" [06:46]
mircea_popescu i merely showed how that idiocy reduces to the absurd. [06:46]
cads An average of 2 million views per video is an impressive metric for an internet personality. [06:47]
mircea_popescu there's no such thing as a "view" and consequently nohing there to count. [06:47]
mircea_popescu and hence nothing impressive in it. [06:47]
asciilifeform recently saw a winblows trojan turd which loaded some unknown porn vid [06:47]
asciilifeform (primitive 'click fraud') [06:47]
cads mircea_popescu is not impressed, guys [06:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+] [06:48]
cads For the agents in an attention economy, those are important metrics. [06:48]
mircea_popescu nono, i'm impressed, deeply, just, there's nothing there to be impressive k ? [06:48]
mircea_popescu there is no such thing as an attention econonmy. [06:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.06941006 = 0.5553 BTC [-] [06:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.0694 = 1.041 BTC [-] {2} [06:52]
cads Okay, so lets start at the bottom. The claim there are no youtube views. Youtube clearly provides analytics on the number of visitors to a page. So are we saying these numbers are fabricated by youtube or third part 'view providers? Or that youtube views don't actually record how much attention someone payed to a video, whether they really watched it, etc. [06:53]
mircea_popescu cads i can make a webpage publishing arbitrary numbers. [06:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [+] [06:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.0694 = 0.9022 BTC [-] [06:53]
mircea_popescu in fact back in the lycos/infoseek/geocities days most everyone did. [06:53]
cads In the second and first cases I would point out that marketing companies trust view statistics. [06:53]
cads So people pay for views and they're real. [06:54]
mircea_popescu marketing companies do not trust view statisticsa, [06:54]
mircea_popescu they simply use that particular bezzle to defraud whoever's so inclined. [06:54]
mircea_popescu there's nothing particularly wrong with being a fraudster, i guess, until you end up believing your own crap. [06:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.19376446 = 0.5813 BTC [+] [06:54]
mircea_popescu all this aside : putting "views" next to a number does not transform the number into a measure [06:55]
asciilifeform cads: pick up one of google's '$100 off' coupons and see for yourself what it is the chumps pay for [06:55]
mircea_popescu nor are you at liberty to imagine the symbol views denotes whatever definition you may happen to allocate it. [06:55]
cads right, we must trust the entity measuring the views and the method of measuring them. [06:55]
mircea_popescu first and foremost we must agree these "views" are a thing. [06:55]
mircea_popescu you can only measure that which is thing. [06:56]
cads okay [06:56]
cads so with multiple servers serving the same content it becomes a nontrivial task to syncronize the correct number, first [06:57]
mircea_popescu all this dovetails neatly, of course, into our earlier kabbalah discussion, [06:57]
mircea_popescu but i would like to add the observation that according to the 1800s crowd, patent medicine was actually useful, actually valuable and actually working. [06:57]
asciilifeform for some reason, i can't help but remember the american moneyed idiot who proclaimed that tv watchers who get up to piss during ads are committing fraud. [06:57]
mircea_popescu and its forbidding a serious abuse of the state power against individual sovereignity [06:57]
mircea_popescu a view which is actulaly getting a slight resurgence these days. [06:57]
mircea_popescu (promoted by interested parties, of course, which is to say scammors) [06:58]
asciilifeform hell, it actually worked - with opium in every bottle [06:58]
mircea_popescu opium provides no health benefits tho [06:58]
asciilifeform arguably a better deal than what today's hucksters are pushing, regardless [06:58]
mircea_popescu perhaps. [06:58]
mircea_popescu very much depends on what you're buying,. [06:59]
mircea_popescu much like say, closer to home, silicone. [06:59]
mircea_popescu you can get excellent chips [06:59]
mircea_popescu or you could get crud. [06:59]
asciilifeform can't resist pointing out that, at least on this side of the atlantic, 'silicone' refers exclusively to the type of rubber sold under that name [06:59]
mircea_popescu now the people who have no idea about electronics regularly buy whatever someone;s telling them to. [06:59]
cads mircea_popescu: at some level I feel you are saying that it absolutely does not matter that people spent an estimated 34 million minutes looking at this single artist's work, if only because we can't trust those estimates at all. [07:00]
mircea_popescu a sorry. [07:00]
mircea_popescu cads that is a slightly different discussion, and in no way related to "views". [07:00]
asciilifeform naggum's 4-ring binders [07:00]
asciilifeform 'lemon car' theorem, etc. [07:00]
mircea_popescu and that different discussion i will appoach from the following different angle : [07:00]
mircea_popescu would you consider more important the mona lisa or an equally large, equally well made unknown painting certainly made by da vinci ? [07:01]
asciilifeform cads: even a rookie spammer can easily arrange a million 'views' of whatever. [07:01]
mircea_popescu the mona lisa people have spenbt 45804958609458609458609845045809845 minutes watching. [07:01]
mircea_popescu this unknow painting, 845. [07:01]
mircea_popescu which is the more important ? [07:01]
mircea_popescu who the fuck sits in museums with a clicker doing cezanne vs caravaggio minutemanview competition ? [07:02]
mircea_popescu why not compare movies by the gross weight of tit watching them ? [07:02]
cads in the landscape of the possible human experience time is the only scarce resource, so if in /this/ universe people have spent more time experiencing the first art work, then I am willing to say this is more "important" [07:02]
mircea_popescu the oscars this year totals films watched by 48599 tons of tit fat. [07:03]
mircea_popescu so if i were to give you one of the two, you'd pick the mona lisa ? [07:03]
asciilifeform reason i mentioned google's widget, is that the chumps pay manyfold for 'conversions' (term of art) [07:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.126 = 0.252 BTC [+] {2} [07:03]
asciilifeform i.e. 'victims' who do not merely click the ad, but go on to buy something [07:04]
mircea_popescu right. [07:04]
mircea_popescu how the fuck would time be a scarce resource anyway. [07:04]
asciilifeform the type of fool that pays for mere click is not entirely extinct, however. [07:04]
mircea_popescu the people who do views have nothing else to do with their time [07:04]
mircea_popescu that's why they're there. [07:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform slowly dieing out, like the email spammer. [07:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+] [07:04]
cads mircea_popescu: I'm merely saying one work has influenced far more human experience, thoughts, and ultimately economic action. [07:05]
mircea_popescu maybe it has. [07:05]
mircea_popescu except the point of art is that it doesn't work like commerce. [07:06]
mircea_popescu maybe the unseen painting also has. for what we know... [07:06]
cads art works like a popularity contest [07:06]
mircea_popescu naw. [07:06]
mircea_popescu ;;google trilema what is art [07:06]
gribble What is art ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; Art over time, a graph of progress. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: ; WhoMerLock :: A Trio of Trilemmas by GMYuna on deviantART: [07:06]
mircea_popescu i need a ;;trilema [07:06]
mircea_popescu ffs this thing sucks. [07:06]
cads not a competition of provision of real valued, but a competition to earn human sentiment [07:07]
mircea_popescu [07:07]
ozbot What is art ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [07:07]
mircea_popescu there, share it with the feminists, it'll make them like me, much to their detriment. [07:07]
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cads I'm not going to argue what is art, I'm interested in how artists earn money, and I'm having a hard time believing that the amount of money that an artist earns does not _strongly_ correlate with the amount of attention that others give him. [07:10]
cads how can that claim be sustained? [07:10]
cads okay [07:11]
mircea_popescu the amount an artist earns strictly correlates with how powerful his lord is [07:11]
mircea_popescu and how well he serves him. [07:11]
mircea_popescu s'all. [07:11]
cads I can think of many artists that make livings working in larger studios [07:12]
cads for commercial work - entertainment, marketing, design [07:12]
mircea_popescu i can think of many ways people structure deals to avoid tax. [07:12]
cads these artists do /not/ recieve attention [07:13]
mircea_popescu yes they do, it's just not nominalized. [07:13]
cads and they in fact do better than artists that try to make their living purely on their art [07:13]
mircea_popescu the ronin ":artist" is merely a rebellious peasant. [07:13]
cads which would seem to sustain the claim that earning do not correlate to attention [07:13]
mircea_popescu no matter how he tries to fake the pretense of being an actual artist. [07:13]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00083559 = 0.2507 BTC [-] [07:16]
Namworld ;;premium mtgox bitstamp [07:17]
gribble Premium of MtGox over Bitstamp is currently -52.9905981226 %. [07:17]
Namworld This is the best thing ever... [07:18]
Namworld +25% to under -50% [07:18]
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cads I think that's very cynical, and more of a moral issue.. do you think it's wrong or weak for someone to try to make a living as an artist? [07:18]
mircea_popescu i think it's confused. [07:18]
cads Stupid? Patently. [07:18]
mircea_popescu do you think it's wrong or weak for someone to make a living as an electric engineer specialised in pottery ? [07:19]
cads Sure [07:19]
mircea_popescu or a word mathematician ? [07:19]
mircea_popescu (like, say, a kabbalist) [07:19]
cads what the fuck are you doing with yourself then :D [07:19]
mircea_popescu it's ridiculously misguided. [07:19]
mircea_popescu lol [07:19]
Namworld What's the issue with someone making a living as an artist? [07:19]
mircea_popescu you'll have to read teh log, argument started centuries ago. [07:20]
Namworld I must be missing something. [07:20]
cads Expected ROI [07:20]
cads for one. [07:20]
asciilifeform reduces to a search for the right moneyed fool (e.g. reportedly, kabbalists do find employment in israel) [07:20]
mircea_popescu cads picture a chick showing up to the sky olympics with toothpics for sticks. [07:20]
Namworld Oh... well I guess few makes it. [07:20]
Namworld But "artist" encompass a lot of people and careers... [07:20]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 145 @ 0.00297498 = 0.4314 BTC [+] [07:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the john is not a fool, he's buying something for his money. [07:21]
cads okay, so I understand, kabbalists and artists are our public enemy so lets not be impressed with them [07:22]
mircea_popescu [07:22]
ozbot Pulp Fiction Bad Mother wallet restaurant scene Jules - YouTube [07:22]
mircea_popescu eh you understand nothing! [07:22]
cads in the same sense that we must never expound the virtues of a song about selling crack [07:22]
mircea_popescu bah fucking youtube. [07:22]
cads even if it is awesome and has done interesting things in the market :D [07:22]
Namworld Artists are our public enemy? [07:23]
Namworld What? [07:23]
cads I was being facetious. [07:23]
cads I want to talk about the econmics of how artists earn their sentiment, and we seem to feel that artists deserve only shitty sentiment because they're shysters that troll for a handout. [07:24]
cads And "click, whirr" the automatic thoughts now prevent us from applying economic modelling to this agent class [07:24]
Namworld earn their sentiment? [07:24]
mircea_popescu "jules, you give that fucking nimrod fifteen hundred dollars i'll shoot him on general principle" "now... I ain't giving it to him Vincent. I'm buyin' something for my money. Wanna know what I'm buyin' Ringo ? [07:25]
mircea_popescu "What ?" [07:25]
mircea_popescu "Your life." [07:25]
mircea_popescu bout it. [07:25]
MisterE poetry [07:25]
mircea_popescu cads you have no modelling, there is no economy and no sentiment. fugeddaboutit. [07:25]
Namworld What is going on here? [07:26]
MisterE we're just about to bring in the gimp I think [07:26]
mircea_popescu nah we already had the gimp [07:26]
mircea_popescu he's off building an exchange. [07:26]
cads hehe, this is how mircea_popescu and I say "I love you" [07:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3988 @ 0.00087169 = 3.4763 BTC [+] [07:27]
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cads haha, and I'm basically arguing that we can make human attention fungible and this is a horror scenario because that means the marketing firms win. [07:27]
mircea_popescu no. [07:28]
mircea_popescu you are arguing that people are interchangeable, which is broken in the way socialism generally is broken. [07:28]
mircea_popescu nothing human is fungible. [07:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2289 @ 0.00024762 = 0.5668 BTC [-] {3} [07:28]
Namworld We can? What? [07:28]
mircea_popescu only the inhuman parts are fungible. [07:28]
mircea_popescu this is how you know you are not your liver. [07:28]
mircea_popescu that said, you can infinitely confuse yourself with "newer" and "never" repackagings of but wait look! i have built a perpetuum mobile, i have redressed socialism so now it works etc. [07:30]
mircea_popescu i have no objection to the activity, but it doth amuse on one hand and fail to entice o nthe other. [07:30]
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Namworld I'm pretty sure my humans aren't fungible. Some of my subjects are worth more. They'd cost you more for me to be willing to depart with them. [07:31]
cads Suppose I have attempted to construct a system where my clients can pay well defined amounts of money to predictably add and remove beliefs from a group of people. It's worked - I've both started and ended revolutions, political movements, market crazes... in a number of countries. [07:32]
mircea_popescu okay. [07:33]
* Namworld reminds people to vote Namworld for overlord of the Galaxy less they wish to perish. [07:34]
mircea_popescu Namworld better go searching for moistened bints. [07:34]
Namworld That is a valid alternative. [07:35]
cads ehh, that scenario is too imaginary [07:36]
mircea_popescu lol caught yourself in your own web huh. [07:36]
cads the scenario is too tacky to think about :D [07:37]
ThickAsThieves catching up on log, but cads, Cloud Atlas was pretty lame [07:37]
mircea_popescu stop repressing him [07:37]
mircea_popescu he's like... trying to sniff emancipated, unshaven cunt [07:37]
asciilifeform cloud atlas! another cheap sf flick with the bomb collars! [07:37]
asciilifeform always the bomb collars. [07:37]
asciilifeform hollywood seems to love them. [07:37]
cads ah, warn copumpkin [07:37]
copumpkin watching it now [07:38]
copumpkin ssh [07:38]
cads the man has committed [07:38]
mircea_popescu you ssh ing into a film ?! [07:38]
copumpkin yeah, I have an ascii art video player [07:38]
asciilifeform ssh -X [07:38]
copumpkin works fine if you configure your terminal correctly [07:38]
copumpkin no [07:38]
cads hehe mircea_popescu you [07:38]
copumpkin not enough bandwidth for X forwarding of video [07:38]
mircea_popescu "easy to use if you know what you are doing" [07:38]
cads 're an ass :D [07:38]
copumpkin cads: you're just now realizing? [07:39]
cads course not! [07:39]
copumpkin the guy's internet famous for it [07:39]
copumpkin :) [07:39]
mircea_popescu he's only now started the sniffing. [07:39]
mircea_popescu pubertee :D [07:39]
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copumpkin hah [07:39]
copumpkin anyway, back to movie [07:39]
copumpkin this thing isn't going to watch itself [07:39]
mircea_popescu buy a cozy and a ceramic bracelet on etzy while at it. [07:39]
mircea_popescu feed a starving virgin! [07:39]
asciilifeform it's a 'good bad film.' i recommend it. [07:40]
mircea_popescu i just realised we could make a pretty decent -assets mockumentary [07:41]
asciilifeform (in the sense of mr. o's essay on 'good bad books') [07:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00087086 = 22.7294 BTC [-] [07:41]
cads mircea_popescu: I will remember that people can make you reject any economic theory simply by saying the word "feminism" 10 minutes before presenting it :D [07:43]
mircea_popescu im the foremost feminist here, i'll have you know. [07:43]
mircea_popescu (no trollo) [07:43]
chetty ppffttt [07:43]
cads not a surprise for a slave master to be the feminist of an internet bunch :D [07:44]
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B007 I got accused of being a feminist only once. By a girl. [07:45]
chetty current definition of term 'feminist' makes it an insult ya know :P [07:47]
cads I like some feminist stuff but I also like knockers [07:47]
cads in america at least, dudes that call themselves feminists are mostly women hating bro creeps hiding behind the label [07:48]
mircea_popescu srsly ? [07:49]
cads yeah it became a thing [07:49]
mircea_popescu i thought us male feminists were mostly... you know, dudes that can't otherwise date. [07:50]
mircea_popescu shy marginally autistic repressed twentysomethings. [07:50]
cads right it has become rapey bros [07:50]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+] [07:50]
cads hey I'm a shy marginally autistic repressed twentysomething! [07:51]
cads what are ya getting at! :D [07:51]
mircea_popescu anyway, i'm the sort of feminist that torns irigaray to shreds because she's too stupid to live and gives a bad name to the entire thing. [07:51]
mircea_popescu sort-of like amir taaki. [07:51]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14460 @ 0.00087313 = 12.6255 BTC [+] {2} [07:51]
cads there's this neat defense [07:52]
cads "It wasn't rape. I'm a feminist" [07:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11840 @ 0.00087647 = 10.3774 BTC [+] [07:52]
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mircea_popescu how does that work ? [07:53]
mircea_popescu anyway, to help this discussion along, [07:53]
mircea_popescu [07:53]
cads a man will rape a woman and then claim what happened could not have been rape. He's a feminist. [07:53]
cads He's so hurt now. [07:53]
mircea_popescu uh [07:53]
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mircea_popescu this is bizarre. [07:54]
cads He loves women. He's DONE things for the cause. How can this cunt thing he fucking raped her? [07:54]
cads think* [07:54]
mircea_popescu would this be one of those ambiguous episode kids get involved in that are currently mislabeled as "rape" in the us ? [07:54]
mircea_popescu such as get drunk at party, fuck, don't remember much in the morning ? [07:55]
B007 lol [07:55]
B007 no [07:55]
nicknock_ well if you feel regret you can always dump a rape charge at the guy [07:55]
nicknock_ the female option [07:56]
cads mircea_popescu: [07:58]
mircea_popescu ajajaa [07:58]
KRS-One .bait [07:58]
ozbot [07:58]
cads mircea_popescu: hey, cute pic, if I cross my eyes I can almost see her in 3d :D [07:59]
mircea_popescu is "gender is a social construct" supposed to excuse her lack of heels or something ? [07:59]
mircea_popescu cads yeah the grandiose photochop job is better than the girl. [07:59]
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BingoBoingo Oh, happy birthday to me! [08:03]
mircea_popescu for his a bingo good booingo! [08:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.NSA] 1000 @ 0.0002 = 0.2 BTC [+] [08:03]
BingoBoingo I still have to decide what to get myself. [08:05]
mircea_popescu ? [08:06]
BingoBoingo Maybe? I'll probably just get myself some scotch. [08:06]
BingoBoingo Or some nice wool socks. [08:08]
mircea_popescu buy a cozy and a ceramic bracelet on etzy while at it. [08:11]
mircea_popescu i will never know why they eschewed naming the thing chintzy [08:12]
chetty actually rape is a social construct then - no gender = no rape :P [08:12]
cazalla check yo priviledge [08:12]
mircea_popescu no woman no cry [08:12]
cazalla privilege even [08:12]
BingoBoingo Chintzy might be a good name for a BTC etsy. [08:13]
mircea_popescu guy walks into a bank "hell-o, i'd like to open a checking account" [08:13]
mircea_popescu "what for ? you look like one of those bums with delusions of academia" [08:13]
mircea_popescu "nevertheless, i would like to check my privilege" [08:13]
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cads "Lack game? Try this formula: mention x feminist theorist, y lamentation about political issue that attacks women’s rights, z assertion about sexual consent. That tactic alone may work on someone, and that’s utterly scary." [08:19]
cads bahaha [08:19]
cads also this [08:20]
cads "In my ideal world, the misogynists would be ultra-detectable, with facial pocks and sulfury odors and grunt “wiggle your glazed donut ass for me.” " [08:20]
mircea_popescu da fuck. [08:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1281 @ 0.00023839 = 0.3054 BTC [-] {9} [08:21]
mircea_popescu so if i make girls twerk i'm a mysogynist ? [08:21]
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mircea_popescu nm, Minh Nguyen fails to be hot and therefore her rambling is irrelephant. [08:24]
cads hehe, you are a parody of yourself :) [08:24]
mircea_popescu this is how you know i'm a feminist! [08:24]
mircea_popescu um wait... [08:24]
cads the universe has a human parody operator and you are its fixpoint :) [08:25]
mircea_popescu [08:26]
ozbot #bitcoin-assets bash [08:26]
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cads I feel for what she says, and I think she's naive in only one thing [08:27]
cads her two male paradongs of perfect sexism free maleness [08:27]
cads do not exist [08:27]
mircea_popescu if i were surounded by douchy us twennysomething as a woman young enough to wish to get laid... frankly i dunno i'd find the time to write [08:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0704 = 0.1408 BTC [+] {2} [08:28]
mircea_popescu what with all the reload flamethrower, throw away empty fuel cartridge, reload flamethrower... [08:28]
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herbijudlestoids ThickAsThieves, Bunnyh just got email from Luke-Jr, patch seems good, hope it helps [08:29]
mircea_popescu this however has nothing to do with sexism, feminism, cultural, social, constructs and so forth. [08:29]
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cads btw who is the originator of the social construct BS? [08:29]
mircea_popescu cads saussure, probably. [08:30]
cads it's... essentially right but leads people to conclude what is merely a social construct doesn't actually exist so it should be possible in /theory/ to completely dispell that what was a construct. [08:30]
cads with another construct [08:30]
cads presumably [08:31]
mircea_popescu nah that's not it. [08:31]
cads but more often with "the truth", at least if you dig at it. [08:31]
mircea_popescu it leads people to imagine that it was "constructed", which is a pedestrian interpretation of the term of art, [08:31]
mircea_popescu and thus simultaneously casts blame, upon the politically convenient targets of ostracism (ie, actual males, actual females, anyone not fucktarded) [08:31]
cads right, the builders [08:32]
mircea_popescu and offers a seeming basis for further nuttery (ie, that a "better" construct could be constructed. on etsy.) [08:32]
mircea_popescu it's really just a slightly more iq-amped way of being emo. [08:32]
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mircea_popescu on re-read we don;t disagree. [08:33]
mircea_popescu anyway, the entirety of what passes for "social sciences" in the us these days can broadly be divided without remained into the emo ("i am special because i am chiefly only interested in myself and let me tell you about myself which is important because i am special bla bla bla") [08:35]
mircea_popescu and goffy, which is "look at all the neat shit i don't understand that i've randomly collected mostly by breaking old stuff apart with a hammer" [08:35]
cads and the creepy, "look we can predict crimes before they happen by monitoring unsent drafts on facebook" [08:36]
mircea_popescu one of the funniest things to watch is a goffy and an emo chick being interested in the same dood. [08:36]
cazalla where do you see that [08:37]
mircea_popescu used to be the only attraction of livejournal. [08:37]
cads cazalla: you DON'T see that [08:37]
mircea_popescu (which was fb before fb) [08:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.000876 = 35.04 BTC [-] {3} [08:37]
cads but you know it's there [08:37]
cazalla i use to have an LJ back in the day :P [08:37]
mircea_popescu i never did but i read some of my slaves' ljs from back in the day [08:38]
mircea_popescu mucho humiliatory. [08:38]
cazalla met a girl on there, thought she would have sex with me if i made an LJ too, gee how naive [08:38]
mircea_popescu also quite instructive for me. [08:38]
benkay what did you learn? [08:38]
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cads jesus why the fuck can't we have distributed publicly owned web service assets?! [08:39]
cads People use LJ for private journals because it has privacy controls [08:39]
mircea_popescu benkay just enriched my personal sottisier. [08:39]
cads till their incompetent IT department leaks the firm's key hash database [08:40]
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benkay wow pankkake venus is some brilliance [08:49]
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benkay holy fucknuggets venus is illmatic [08:50]
benkay makes me want to run my own aggregation channel [08:51]
benkay or curate a republication of a bunch of feeds [08:51]
benkay no no no kid focus focus kid there are far more important things [08:51]
mircea_popescu what venus ? [08:53]
benkay [08:54]
ozbot Planet Venus source code [08:54]
benkay rss thinger [08:54]
benkay slash other stuff [08:54]
benkay probably sucks [08:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00087082 = 10.624 BTC [-] {4} [08:54]
benkay but man you know what else sucks? my rss story. [08:54]
benkay solution is not to implement venus actually but to fix rss in emacs [08:55]
benkay which i totally have time to and will do in the next decade [08:55]
benkay *flips table* [08:55]
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benkay i'm going to go design a thing. computers suck. [08:56]
mircea_popescu oic [08:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.127 = 0.254 BTC [+] {2} [09:01]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+] [09:01]
mircea_popescu anyone care to help me build a sorted list of politically incorrect english words ? [09:03]
mircea_popescu nigger > faggot right ? [09:04]
ThickAsThieves greater at what? [09:04]
mircea_popescu at incorectness [09:04]
ThickAsThieves yeah [09:04]
mircea_popescu fatty next ? or anything before that ? [09:05]
ThickAsThieves this would take forever [09:05]
mircea_popescu i just need like the top 10 [09:05]
ThickAsThieves lol [09:05]
mircea_popescu 5, something. [09:05]
ThickAsThieves cunt [09:05]
mircea_popescu cunt is not politically incorrect is it ?! [09:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1245 BTC [-] [09:06]
ThickAsThieves wtf is p i tho? [09:06]
mircea_popescu hm. [09:06]
mircea_popescu ok. hurtful. [09:06]
mircea_popescu the most HURTFUL words! [09:06]
ThickAsThieves i'm drawing a blank [09:07]
ThickAsThieves must be in a kind mood [09:07]
mircea_popescu my powem ;/ [09:07]
ThickAsThieves slut? [09:07]
ThickAsThieves sandnigger? [09:07]
dub interseting problem [09:07]
ThickAsThieves mouthbreather? [09:08]
dub as a nigger I don't find it offensive, not a faggot so hard to judge [09:08]
mircea_popescu [09:08]
ozbot Blog-Mahoney: The two most hurtful words in the English language [09:08]
mircea_popescu god damned. [09:08]
mircea_popescu dub you're black now ?! [09:08]
dub since birth in fact [09:09]
ThickAsThieves that blog is retarded [09:09]
ThickAsThieves retard! [09:09]
mircea_popescu i had no idea. [09:09]
mircea_popescu o yeah retard. ty. [09:09]
ThickAsThieves dyke? [09:09]
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ThickAsThieves rugmuncher? [09:10]
ThickAsThieves jew? [09:10]
ThickAsThieves greenhorn can be pretty insulting [09:10]
mircea_popescu jew is fine isn't it ? [09:10]
mircea_popescu should be something with the holocaust tho [09:11]
mircea_popescu maybe hebe ? [09:11]
BingoBoingo Kike [09:11]
ThickAsThieves slant [09:11]
benkay programmer [09:11]
BingoBoingo Gook [09:11]
ThickAsThieves thug, it's the new nigger [09:11]
mircea_popescu ahaha programmer [09:11]
mircea_popescu i wonder if hacker ever makes this list. [09:12]
mircea_popescu "don't be callin ma momma a hacker yo!" [09:12]
ThickAsThieves what hacker wants to be called a hacker? [09:12]
BingoBoingo Dago, potatonigger, Guido [09:12]
ThickAsThieves other than the pretender kind [09:12]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo its not that i want a long or exhaustive list, [09:12]
mircea_popescu i want it sorted. the internet is full of ambigfuous list. i want to see the fucking impolite middle class. [09:13]
ThickAsThieves my dad had a pretty bad word for nigger in portuguese [09:13]
Duffer1 race based are some of the most loaded atm [09:13]
ThickAsThieves prete or something [09:13]
ThickAsThieves burnt piece of wood [09:13]
chetty I don't think it can be done, hurt is very sujective [09:14]
Duffer1 especially those regarding black people and mexicans [09:14]
ThickAsThieves spic [09:14]
BingoBoingo Wetback, beaner [09:14]
ThickAsThieves i like beaner [09:14]
ThickAsThieves if i were mexican id take it [09:14]
ThickAsThieves wop [09:15]
chetty haha 'commie', long ago. Now I think its a compliment [09:15]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves maybe you could be a faux mexican [09:16]
ThickAsThieves its a running joke with the father in law [09:16]
ThickAsThieves cuz he's a redneck who cant tell the difference [09:16]
ThickAsThieves so i tell him to call me carlos [09:17]
benkay i use commie as an insult. it confuses people. [09:17]
ThickAsThieves "Gypped" is arguably the most commonly used racist term in existence today. [09:17]
mircea_popescu benkay it's always nice to yell when joining a large group "You pinko commie bastards!!!" with lively excitement [09:17]
BingoBoingo Some are more and less offensive on different sides of the atlantic. Spaz is fine in 'Murica and a Offensive in Britain. Cunt is the reverse (except when dealing with slants as a full rotation is out of the picture) [09:17]
mircea_popescu those 5 seconds while they try to decide if you're about to mow them down or it's a really funny joke are priceless. [09:17]
benkay yeah plus you get such great intel about all of them from their reactions i bet [09:18]
ThickAsThieves orgasm is pretty offensive to a lot of people [09:18]
ThickAsThieves many sex words [09:18]
mircea_popescu ya but those are all women [09:18]
mircea_popescu who cares. [09:18]
BingoBoingo ThickAsThieves: In these parts I actually hear Jew'd about as often as Gyp'd [09:19]
ThickAsThieves yeah i think more people use gyp cuz they arent quite sure if its an insult [09:19]
ThickAsThieves whereas jew'd is pretty obv [09:19]
ThickAsThieves "guinea-rigged" [09:20]
BingoBoingo I almost forgot Guinea was a slur, fucking I-talians [09:20]
mircea_popescu guinea is a slur ? [09:21]
ThickAsThieves yeah, like wop [09:21]
mircea_popescu but it's a country name. [09:21]
ThickAsThieves its assoc with italians for some reason [09:21]
mircea_popescu ;;google guinea-bissau [09:21]
gribble Guinea-Bissau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Guinea-Bissau - Central Intelligence Agency: ; BBC News - Guinea-Bissau profile - Overview: [09:22]
ThickAsThieves maybe it's another nigger word [09:22]
ThickAsThieves i havent heard it since i was a kidf [09:22]
ThickAsThieves from my dad of course [09:22]
ThickAsThieves i'm beginning to understand why i like rap so much [09:23]
BingoBoingo "Q: What do you call an Italian homosexual? A: A Guinea cocksucker." [09:23]
mircea_popescu you like rap, dub likes dubstep, everyone with his own thing. [09:23]
BingoBoingo They even use guinea as a slur in The Godfather. [09:24]
ThickAsThieves italians probly got slaves from there [09:24]
mircea_popescu they were french colonies tho [09:24]
mircea_popescu and italians didn't use slaves really [09:25]
BingoBoingo Maybe the French weren't big fans of the Dagos. [09:25]
mircea_popescu except the sicilians have to this day a female slavery programme goin [09:25]
ThickAsThieves did they ship slaves tho? [09:25]
mircea_popescu only to the moors. [09:25]
mircea_popescu (fun fact : before the dutch started paying better, the black people were exporting slaves exclusively east, to yemen and other arabs) [09:26]
Luke-Jr ThickAsThieves: not sure you're involvement, but the change herbijudlestoids mentioned is merged now [09:26]
Luke-Jr your* [09:26]
ThickAsThieves my ancestors probly played a decent role in all that, being azorean [09:26]
ThickAsThieves word [09:26]
BingoBoingo [09:26]
ozbot Black Moor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [09:26]
benkay sicilian female slavery?? [09:26]
ThickAsThieves "Tina Maze of Slovenia and Dominique Gisin of Switzerland finished the women's downhill event with the exact same time" [09:27]
ThickAsThieves must be a joke in there somewhere [09:27]
BingoBoingo Openex's ATC volume is down to under a hundredth of a BTC these past 24 hours. Trading on still need to pick up the slack though. [09:29]
ThickAsThieves [09:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15802 @ 0.00087054 = 13.7563 BTC [-] {2} [09:30]
ozbot - ACCESSWIRE [09:30]
ThickAsThieves Bitcoin Exchange ‘Hitbtc’ Launches February 14th after $3M Investment [09:30]
* CiPi is now known as cipi [09:30]
ThickAsThieves those are guys mpoe-pr "see here'd" [09:30]
cads mircea_popescu: I did some reasearch about charlie bit me - turns out the advertising revenue (~$100K) let the father buy a new house. [09:32]
* cipi has quit (Quit: changing servers) [09:32]
mircea_popescu whoa look at that, 600mn "views" yielded almost 100 btc. [09:32]
mircea_popescu a view is more than a hash! [09:32]
* _cipi ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:32]
mircea_popescu ;;estimate 1000 [09:32]
gribble (estimate takes no arguments) -- Shows next difficulty estimate. [09:32]
mircea_popescu ;;genrate 1000 [09:33]
gribble The expected generation output, at 1000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2621404453.06, is 0.000191846212759 BTC per day and 7.9935921983e-06 BTC per hour. [09:33]
mircea_popescu ;;calc (10**9 * 24 * 3600)/0.000191846212759 [09:34]
gribble 450360727780104448 [09:34]
mircea_popescu 4.5e17 hashes per btc! [09:34]
* _cipi is now known as cipi [09:34]
* cipi has quit (Changing host) [09:34]
* cipi (~cip@unaffiliated/cipi) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:34]
cads "At one point in time, their father Howard Davies-Car stressed that he didn't want to commercialize on the boy's success but realized that unlicensed merchandise was being sold based on their video.[9] In response to requests from viewers online the family created "Charlie Bit My Finger" T-shirts, mugs and limited edition calendars.[2][31]" [09:34]
* cipi is now known as CiPi [09:35]
mircea_popescu so did the reader chicks get a new library yet ? [09:35]
BingoBoingo ;;genrate 440000000000 [09:35]
gribble The expected generation output, at 4.4e+11 Mhps, given difficulty of 2621404453.06, is 84412.3336141 BTC per day and 3517.18056725 BTC per hour. [09:35]
cads and it's this next part that makes it seem completely scifi to me: [09:35]
cads "The family signed into a partnership with a video management company called Viral Spiral. Viral Spiral, a video management company specializing in viral videos, has helped place the video in advertisements for companies like Sprint and helped to create a brand.[23][32] There was also news of a web series featuring the boys in the works.[33] [09:35]
cads An app called "Charlie Bit Me!!!" was created for Apple and Android devices, developed by Viral Spiral and zGames.[34]" [09:35]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo watts != kwh [09:35]
ThickAsThieves create a brand, from a viral video... [09:36]
mircea_popescu kinda shows how worthless a brand is today. [09:36]
benkay barely put any effort in... [09:37]
ThickAsThieves it's like a branding singularity [09:37]
benkay "hit by the brandhammer" [09:37]
ThickAsThieves everything you do is your brand [09:37]
benkay made 100k [09:37]
mircea_popescu policeman sees guy pissing on a fencepost. "da fuck are you doing!" "branding" [09:37]
ThickAsThieves freedom of brand! [09:38]
mircea_popescu "honey tonight i'll brand the fuck out of your vagina." "and then i brandished it into her again" [09:38]
ThickAsThieves i wonder what they call hot ironing cattle now? [09:39]
ThickAsThieves viral hits? [09:39]
* CiPi is now known as cipi [09:39]
* cipi is now known as CiPi [09:39]
ThickAsThieves tattoos [09:39]
cads oh, hey [09:39]
ThickAsThieves cowtoos [09:39]
cads speaking of memes turning into brands [09:40]
cads wtf is up with dogecoin?! [09:40]
cads their market cap is way up! [09:40]
ThickAsThieves it's Field Day for Nobodies [09:40]
mircea_popescu cads "turning" is maybe a little much [09:41]
ThickAsThieves i suspect doge is owned by way less people than they appear [09:41]
mircea_popescu [09:41]
ozbot Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations | Bitcoin Ripples Litecoin Peercoin DogeCoin Nxt Mastercoin C [09:41]
mircea_popescu dropped to 5 in the fantasy league. [09:41]
ThickAsThieves it's probly just a couple sock armies [09:41]
BingoBoingo If Doges are so great, why doesn't Sochi want them? [09:42]
mircea_popescu prolly next surpassed by next. [09:42]
ThickAsThieves lol there's 2m more doge than last time i looked! [09:42]
ThickAsThieves 2t* [09:42]
mircea_popescu MaxCoin -22% lmao [09:42]
ThickAsThieves i wonder how much money he'll pump in before he gives up [09:43]
ThickAsThieves ha i just went to check twitter [09:44]
ThickAsThieves and see mp doge tweet [09:44]
mircea_popescu [09:44]
assbot 123! [09:44]
ozbot Twitter / maxkeiser: Feels like a #maxcoin buy-program ... [09:44]
* ystarnaud_ is now known as ystarnaud [09:44]
cads "An alternative cryptocurrency disrupting the already rather disrupting crypto market. MaxCoin Donations: mPQERLaEVcj1cMSMX5tyCcCdBeZCkm6GEK " [09:44]
cazalla speaking of doge, it was on aussie tv - [09:44]
cads yeah yeah buddy [09:44]
ThickAsThieves jesus [09:45]
ThickAsThieves he said that? [09:45]
ThickAsThieves ugh [09:45]
copumpkin okay, that was quite the movie [09:45]
cads youre just trying to disrupt my wallet [09:45]
mircea_popescu dis rupting... [09:45]
BingoBoingo Maliciously rupturing? [09:46]
BingoBoingo Is Maxcoin a hernia? [09:46]
ThickAsThieves malleable anusactions [09:46]
cads Ah so when were prophets ever anything but shysters [09:46]
cads max has his followers [09:47]
cads aka chumps [09:47]
cads the only bad thing is I did not do it [09:47]
* cads 's name is max [09:47]
* cads 's chance to do this is now gone [09:47]
cads sad sad [09:48]
ThickAsThieves surely you can use a better name [09:48]
ThickAsThieves here i have one [09:48]
ThickAsThieves maximillions [09:48]
cads cadscoin [09:48]
* robitnik (~Not_My_Us@ has left #bitcoin-assets ("WeeChat 0.4.1") [09:48]
cads Max Keiser ‏@maxkeiser 10h [09:50]
cads Financial regulators in US/UK and elsewhere want Bitcoin to stoop to their level, but it can't: it's not built that way. [09:50]
cads HAHAHAHA [09:50]
cads this guy is awesome [09:50]
cads this is a shyster and a hustler [09:51]
ThickAsThieves lol he also says "Saturday nights on Twitter a bit like streets of Paris in mid-August; nothing but drunks, homeless fools and drooling freaks." [09:51]
cads "America's Most Outrageous Political Pundit" [09:51]
ThickAsThieves on a saturday night [09:51]
cads ?REAAAALLLY?!" [09:51]
cads ThickAsThieves: lol [09:52]
mircea_popescu max cads ? [09:53]
mircea_popescu i say do not despair. [09:53]
mircea_popescu you have a future in like nascar. [09:53]
Duffer1 oh snap [09:54]
ThickAsThieves you could find an acronym too [09:56]
ThickAsThieves like CADS [09:56]
ThickAsThieves currency and deposit system [09:56]
ThickAsThieves or such [09:56]
* cads suddenly wants to make a fun bet that dogecoin will trade at a higher market cap than litecoin before some period of time [09:58]
cads but I'm not sure how long [09:58]
ThickAsThieves the bet exists [09:58]
cads of course [09:58]
ThickAsThieves pretty much [09:58]
ThickAsThieves [09:58]
ozbot BitBet - Any altcoin will surpass Litecoin in market capitalization [09:58]
benkay "start out crazy long shots, end up nailbiters" [09:59]
cads [09:59]
ozbot BitBet - Pussy Riot to announce tour dates before Feb 15th [09:59]
benkay there's some money in that dump [09:59]
cads ahaha [09:59]
benkay er, pump [09:59]
cads I dunno if there will be any touring for pussy riot [09:59]
ThickAsThieves there's like a legion of em no? [09:59]
cads like 5 [10:00]
cads that just kicked out the two members that actually did time for the group [10:00]
cads because they want to remain an anonymous collective if criminals [10:00]
mircea_popescu tit envy ? [10:00]
cads of* [10:00]
mircea_popescu some of the chicks actually had nice tits [10:01]
cads I dunno, political suicide in either case imo [10:01]
ThickAsThieves clit envy [10:01]
mircea_popescu sadly, they were visibly stupid and never got promoted much [10:01]
ThickAsThieves there was the pretty one, the lesbian one, and the frizzy mommy [10:01]
ThickAsThieves a regular Destinys Child in the making [10:02]
cads I mean they could have gone around the world singing "Virgin Mary, put Putin away" and people would have loved it [10:02]
cads and the world would heap even more pressure and loathing on russia [10:02]
cads maybe they felt this would mean nothing [10:02]
mircea_popescu wait, is the pussy riot the ukrainian bunch or the russian bunch ? [10:02]
ThickAsThieves russian [10:02]
cads remember the russian girls that got arrested for holding an illegal concert on the stairs of the orthodox church [10:03]
mircea_popescu [10:04]
ThickAsThieves Femen stole our voice, so we only write on signs now [10:04]
* AndrewJackson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:04]
* AndrewJackson ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:05]
mircea_popescu also stole their tits. [10:05]
mircea_popescu that'd have been way better. [10:05]
mircea_popescu "Femen stole our tits, so we have to take it in the ass now" [10:05]
mircea_popescu "It hurts." [10:05]
ThickAsThieves Our rights have been "impacted" [10:06]
mircea_popescu hahaha [10:07]
ThickAsThieves [10:07]
mircea_popescu subtle proctological jokes, an -assets specialty. [10:08]
cads ThickAsThieves: I love how us bitcoin analysts use such powerful technical indicators as... rocket ships :) [10:10]
mircea_popescu rocketsheep! [10:12]
cads although I won't doubt its persuasive power [10:12]
cads for I felt it [10:12]
cads ;) [10:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.123925 = 0.4957 BTC [-] {2} [10:13]
cads oh you guys do know that at one point english writing spelled the S sound with an F [10:14]
cads Hence "Femen stole our voice" [10:14]
cads is a naughty statement [10:15]
Namworld A friend of a friend wants to film me eating one of the hottest peppers in the world. If I don't die, he'll try it himself. What? [10:15]
Namworld Guess it can't be too bad. [10:16]
Namworld Sounds like fun. [10:16]
cads femen is a feminist group waging things such as a "topless jihad" [10:16]
cads Namworld: your friend is an evil bastard [10:17]
cads since I'm an evil bastard I encourage you to follow his heed! [10:17]
mircea_popescu semen ftole our fanny ? [10:17]
Namworld No. Me and my friends are evil bastards. I'll act like it's nothing and then we'll see his reaction. [10:18]
cads semen stole our voice. all we could make was gargling sounds [10:18]
mircea_popescu omfg. [10:18]
mircea_popescu dystopia : semen actually renders women mute. [10:18]
mircea_popescu some are happily and thus quietly married [10:18]
mircea_popescu the rest are feminists. [10:19]
mircea_popescu ~ fin ~ [10:19]
Namworld I already tasted stuff ranked ~1 million on the Scoville scale without flinching. [10:19]
Namworld I'll make it look like it's nothing. [10:19]
cads Namworld: is there any way you can license the video for distribution to -assets? [10:19]
cads also your bastard friend's wimpy reaction :D [10:20]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo once btc goes up enough i guess you'll have to graduate from pens to peppers. [10:20]
Namworld The guy asked my friend because he needed someone to try before him. My friend proposed me, because he thought it would be fun. =P [10:21]
Namworld It was my understanding the guy wanted to put it on youtube. [10:21]
mircea_popescu so none of you have girlfriends ? [10:21]
cads [10:21]
Namworld I don't, mircea. [10:21]
Duffer1 >.< [10:22]
mircea_popescu cads that guy looks like the vagina dentata bit his finger. [10:22]
mircea_popescu should we call spiral bacterial or w/e it was ? [10:22]
cads his expression is hilarious [10:22]
Namworld lol cads [10:22]
Namworld I'll keep you updated, cads [10:24]
cads [10:26]
cads hell yea! it looks like this girl just uppercutted the fuck out of this old man [10:26]
cads Truth: "A man kicks a topless Femen activist, as she raises her fist to protest against Islamists in front of the Great Mosque of Paris" [10:27]
cads I like the original interpretation [10:27]
* Duffer1 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]) [10:28]
cads it might be self selection bias but I notice none of these topless warriors are ugly - they're mostly slim and perky [10:29]
cads [10:29]
ozbot Femen Stages a 'Topless Jihad' - In Focus - The Atlantic [10:29]
cads this officer looks like he's seen some shit and this takes the cake 15 [10:30]
cads A man kicks a topless Femen activist, as she raises her fist to protest against Islamists in front of the Great Mosque of Paris [10:30]
cads err [10:30]
cads wrong paste buffer [10:30]
cads [10:30]
cads one does not belong: [10:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00086877 = 1.1294 BTC [-] [10:33]
mircea_popescu the fatty or the titless ? [10:36]
cads hey, has anyone studied Kolmogorov's classic "Foundations of Probability Theory"? [10:36]
cazalla at least they are against mudslimes [10:36]
mircea_popescu hahaha [10:37]
* punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:38]
* punkman1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:38]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Maybe. [10:39]
cads hmm [10:42]
cads "[..]"attention bonds," small warranties that some information will not be a waste of the recipient's time placed into escrow at the time of sending[..]" [10:43]
cads "receivers could cash in their bonds to signal to the sender that a given communication was a waste of their time or elect not to cash them in to signal that more communication would be welcome." [10:44]
cads this is a proposed system for reducing spam [10:44]
cads can we do this with bitcoin? [10:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9484 @ 0.00087274 = 8.2771 BTC [+] {2} [10:46]
mircea_popescu so these are the stamps basically ? [10:46]
cads If you wanna comment on my blog, or drop a message in my website's inbox, say, you must give to an escrow [10:47]
mircea_popescu mail server automatically rejects all email that doesn't come with btc. [10:47]
cads then at any time I can exercise the right to claim the credits to punish spammers and trolls [10:47]
cads I dare not claim the credits of any valued readers [10:47]
cads lest my readership diminish [10:48]
cads it would be harder to implement for email but much easier for personal websites [10:49]
mircea_popescu the trilema credits system seems quite sufficient really. [10:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9079 @ 0.00086793 = 7.8799 BTC [-] {4} [10:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00086659 = 5.6328 BTC [-] {2} [10:56]
benkay never put into the blockchain that which you can handle on your own machines. [11:01]
jurov for bait lovers [11:03]
cads drunk white redneck at an intersection next to a car full of black teenagers playing their music loud. Man starts arguing with the kids about the music, gets out of car. Argument ensues, man takes out gun an fires into the car. one kid is dead, the others uninjured. [11:07]
cads at trial the man's defense is that the kid menaced him with a gun. No gun is found at the scene and the defense argues that it is the state's burden to prove the gun was there. [11:08]
cads The jury convicts him on 3 counts of second degree attempted murder for the passengers [11:08]
cads and a count of firing into a vehicle [11:09]
cads but cannot come to a decision on the first degree murder charge against kid [11:09]
cads the judge instructs them that they may choose a lesser charge - 2nd degree, or manslaughter [11:09]
cads but they hang and a mistrial is declared [11:10]
Namworld Whut? [11:10]
* Ogedei (~quassel@unaffiliated/ogedei) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:11]
cads this is a case for a shooting that happening in florida while the zimmerman trial/circus was going on [11:11]
cads a man named micheal dunn [11:11]
cads [11:12]
cads slimy looking redneck fuck if there was one... [11:12]
cazalla man needs a purple heart [11:12]
Namworld Looks like media can't cover stuff properly once again? [11:12]
cads Namworld: what you mean you're in the US? [11:13]
cazalla cads: you mean where they take a mugshot, which is likely the white mans worst day alive juxaposed with the nigras best day? [11:13]
cazalla too drunk to spell : [11:13]
* Ogedei_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [11:13]
Namworld nope [11:13]
Namworld I'm not. [11:13]
cads fuck yourself cazalla of course they [11:13]
cads do [11:13]
cads what sort of stupid question is that [11:13]
Namworld All medias would do that. [11:14]
cads in the zimmerman trial you saw juxtapositions of zimmerman looking all wellkempt next to trayvon looking like a thug on one media source [11:15]
cazalla he was a thug [11:15]
cads and pictures of trayvon a couple years younger looking angelic, next to zimmerman looking like a pile of crap [11:15]
cads every black kid is a thug [11:16]
cads Namworld: you think this is international news? [11:16]
cads I don't see what would have made it hard to find him guilty of manslaughter [11:17]
cazalla cads: he came from a broken home, was wandering the streets at night, dealing drugs, it was only a matter of time until it happened [11:17]
benkay i kinda begin to see why satoshi banged the client like he did [11:17]
benkay banged the client *out* [11:17]
cads I also wonder if the other kids in the car would have had opportunity to hide the weapon [11:17]
cazalla not that i care for zimmerman but given the media made it a black vs white issue and that black on white violence is the real issue, i can't help but smile to see him 6 foot under [11:18]
cads if /my/ shooter just got killed [11:18]
cads the least I can do for him is take his tool [11:18]
cads and hide it from the cops [11:18]
cads give him some dignity, you know? [11:18]
benkay asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: odds on the satoshi hoard moving to an unspendable address? [11:18]
cazalla perhaps they should listen to their music without disturbing the peace of others? [11:18]
cazalla there is nothing more rude than someone who plays their music within earshot of others and is oblivious to just how poor their taste is [11:19]
cads cazalla: but listen to yourself blithely say "well maybe they shouldn't annoy people", juxtaposed with the fact that a child was slaughtered. [11:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 579 @ 0.00086704 = 0.502 BTC [+] [11:20]
cazalla it is what it is [11:20]
cads if white kids annoyed people and some black dude did the deed what would happen [11:20]
cazalla it's too late to complain your loud music draws attention after the fact [11:20]
Namworld I mean zimmerman case was probably too covered vs other cases. [11:21]
Namworld I'm not in the US and I've heard about it. [11:21]
cazalla zimmerman was just a cheap shot at whites, anti-racism meaning anti-white type crap [11:21]
cazalla the perp need not even be white to make it a black vs white issue these days [11:21]
cazalla which is why i have little sympathy for shot up black hoodlums, they do a good enough job of killing each other than we don't even need to string them up these days [11:22]
cazalla (and i think i've had enough port for this evening) [11:22]
* kleinessteak ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:23]
cads so we have racists in the channel? [11:23]
cads who else? [11:23]
cads lets take a tally [11:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5418 @ 0.00087293 = 4.7295 BTC [+] [11:25]
Namworld I'll avoid voicing an opinion on a case I know little about. [11:26]
jurov ôôseens davout [11:26]
jurov ;;seen davout [11:26]
gribble davout was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 8 hours, 5 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: 2015 -> "intern accidentally deletes mpex" [11:26]
cads the worst part about these cases is when you see these men become heros to these lowbrow whitefuk rednecks here stateside [11:26]
cads they want to be like zimmerman [11:27]
* libbelol (~libbelol@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:27]
cads they CAN'T WAIT to put a slug in a nigger [11:27]
cads ooooh boy [11:27]
cads to do that and get away with it [11:27]
cads it's their drea [11:27]
cads m [11:27]
cads don't tell me it wouldn't fucking thrill you, cazalla [11:27]
cads to kill a little punk pygmy that's threating YOUR life [11:28]
mircea_popescu if anyone wants to read my poem: [11:28]
mircea_popescu [11:28]
ozbot The Letter Third pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [11:28]
cazalla it's a cheap thrill, i don't really care tbh, it occurs far away from me with people of which there are very few where i reside [11:28]
mircea_popescu benkay i have no idea. [11:28]
cads so killing someone to you is a "cheap thrill" [11:29]
cads but meh, you don't really care about it [11:29]
mircea_popescu i cant believe that thing is still a topic. srsly ? [11:29]
* cads is being smarmy :) [11:29]
mircea_popescu who cares, some guy killed some guy. [11:29]
cazalla why are you so invested when 2 idiots find themselves in a situation no sensible person would, where 1 of them will die [11:30]
cads I mean ideally both idiots would be punished - one is already dead, and the other needs to get his. Not for some moral reason. Only to deter further idiots. [11:31]
cazalla why are you not up in arms about the countless nigras being shot up by other nigras, why are you so focused on zimmerman? because he is portrayed as white and it's in the media? i think that's the only reason [11:32]
cads when a black person shoots a black person he goes to jail [11:32]
mircea_popescu cads or maybe he should get a reward for punishing one idiot. [11:33]
cads these are children we're talking about. [11:33]
mircea_popescu you know a black idiot being punished for being an idiot isn't therefore being punished for being black. [11:33]
mircea_popescu apparently children can die as well as adults. [11:33]
cads better [11:33]
mircea_popescu probably even better. [11:33]
cads without leaving a trace [11:33]
cazalla teenagers aren't children [11:34]
cads legally a teenager is a child until 17 or 18 [11:35]
cazalla you're being facetious now [11:36]
cads true [11:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00086915 = 25.2488 BTC [-] {2} [11:36]
cads I actually consider even 22 year olds to be kids [11:36]
mircea_popescu teenager is not defined legally afaik. [11:36]
mircea_popescu cads pasty ass white kids are children at 39. [11:36]
cads because they still think like fucking kids [11:36]
mircea_popescu kids that grow up on the streets are adults at 12. [11:36]
* benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [11:36]
cads if that's true try talking to one about a 401k [11:37]
mircea_popescu methinks his 401k will beat your dad's 401k. [11:37]
mircea_popescu hands down. [11:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00297 = 0.1782 BTC [-] [11:37]
cazalla cads my point is this, a bunch of black teens driving around in an 82 corolla (thinking it's a 64 impala) blasting some rap music is going to attract the wrong type of attention, white man was stupid to react to it but this is how the world works [11:37]
mircea_popescu a particular facility to being taken advantage by the government is no particular qualification of maturity. [11:37]
cads my dad works 10 hour shifts [11:38]
cads he's too hardy for a 401k [11:38]
mircea_popescu well then you see my point. [11:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 240 @ 0.00290146 = 0.6964 BTC [-] {6} [11:38]
cads cazalla: that's not making a point, that's the standard argument [11:38]
cazalla well quit suggesting they are innocent and share no blame in their own death [11:39]
mircea_popescu original sean! [11:39]
cazalla it's like women who dress slutty and cry rape, you can't step into a lions cage and then complain he ate you [11:40]
mircea_popescu what if she was dressed like a slut specifically for me ? [11:40]
mircea_popescu do you now have license to help yourself too ? [11:40]
cazalla if you extend that license to me, yes [11:41]
mircea_popescu but i do not. [11:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00022187 = 1.1094 BTC [-] {13} [11:41]
mircea_popescu that'd be a sight, rapist obtaining prior permission from the male owner of the slut. [11:41]
mircea_popescu "yoiur honor, this wasn't rape. i asked some guy if it's ok." [11:41]
cads add a transaction to the mix and you have a pimp [11:41]
cazalla if you grant permission but it's rape, surely you are not the owner [11:42]
mircea_popescu incidentally, i hear that's why the trezor kid got shot. [11:42]
mircea_popescu some jew guy made a pie, the black kid ate the pie [11:42]
mircea_popescu the jew went "omg wtf you ate my pie for!" [11:42]
mircea_popescu and the nigger went "dude it smelled good! if you didn't want me to eat it [11:42]
mircea_popescu you shouldn't have made it smell good." [11:43]
mircea_popescu and so the jew got angry and shot him/ [11:43]
mircea_popescu and he got acquitted because the jury found the arguments unsavory. [11:43]
cads lesson is that women just need to start shooting their rapists [11:43]
mircea_popescu cads wouldn't that be rape ? [11:43]
mircea_popescu in that you know... the guy was trying to shoot it up her ? [11:44]
* cads does remember once wondering why women can't just choose to enjoy rape [11:44]
mircea_popescu they can, and they do. [11:44]
cazalla cads are you a sjw? [11:44]
cads sjw? [11:45]
mircea_popescu they just need an environment in which they feel safe and secure. [11:45]
cazalla social justice warrior [11:45]
mircea_popescu nah he's just a math geek. [11:45]
mircea_popescu they're a little touched. [11:45]
cads I do like to harass bigots though [11:46]
cads it's my own form of bigotry [11:46]
cazalla i was just about to ask that.. why are you bigotted against bigots [11:46]
mircea_popescu you mean you're intolerant with intolerance ? [11:46]
chetty bah you guys got no clue about rape [11:46]
cazalla btw cads, i'm fine with black people i have an acquataince with, it's the ones i don't that i'm suspect of, more so than whites i don't know [11:46]
mircea_popescu lol chetty epic statement. [11:47]
mircea_popescu cazalla youj know that's exactly what xenophobia is ? [11:47]
cads you think that if a black person is walking 40 feet behind me on a sidewalk, or if a white person is walking 40 feet behind me on a sidewalk, I don't prefer to be in the latter situation? [11:47]
cads even a black person prefers that [11:47]
mircea_popescu what srslky ?!@ [11:47]
cads err [11:48]
cads wait a second [11:48]
cads I mean I prefer [11:48]
cazalla i am xenophobic [11:48]
cazalla but that doesn't bother me [11:48]
mircea_popescu i am honestly not getting you two. [11:48]
chetty rape has nothing to do with sex - you confuse the issues [11:48]
mircea_popescu it seriously makes no difference to me. wtf difference does it make ? [11:48]
cads chetty: I later realized that the women are also physically threatened and harmed/killed during rape [11:48]
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cads (I was a kid when I wondered that) [11:49]
mircea_popescu hence my comment, re "they can and they do, provided they have a safe environment in which to enjoy it" [11:49]
cazalla what difference does it make? [11:49]
cazalla or is that directed at cads [11:49]
mircea_popescu at both of you. [11:49]
mircea_popescu i noticed this before, too, us people are fucking weird. [11:50]
cazalla i don't like foreigners coming into my country and upsetting the WASP ratio [11:50]
cads we'll argue for the joy of arguing [11:50]
cazalla if i get to know them on a 1 to 1 level, that's OK [11:50]
cads we're not particularly mean to each other even when we're insulting :D [11:50]
mircea_popescu i get in a bus, i sit with the black people, white people are all giving me wtf is this ?!?! looks [11:50]
cads cazalla: right, that's how I am too [11:51]
mircea_popescu black people are all omg this guy is like dangerous. [11:51]
cazalla i'd happily chant for the random black person to be shot, shout obscentities and then invite the black neighbour over for a bbq same day [11:51]
cazalla we don't really have black people in australia anyway [11:51]
mircea_popescu you're nuts already. [11:51]
mircea_popescu the only sane conclusion is that you've paid about 100x too much attention to this race thing. [11:51]
mircea_popescu perhaps 1000x [11:51]
cazalla yeah, reading too much /pol/ lately [11:51]
cazalla + drinking [11:52]
mircea_popescu da fuck difference does it make, even if you were in fucking somalia [11:52]
mircea_popescu most dudes there are you know, boring derps. [11:52]
cazalla yes i'm sure everyone is friendly to strangers in mogadishu [11:52]
cads cazalla: the thing about that is that is that's really some fuckshit, that's like having a gay friend over for a barbeque on saturday and secretly picketing with "GOD HATES FAGS" signs in sunday [11:52]
cazalla cads: that's me [11:53]
cads who would your friend think you were if he knew? [11:53]
mircea_popescu i'd expect he appreciates the prime trollage. [11:53]
mircea_popescu wouldn't you ? [11:53]
cads if you don't really give a fuck what you fag ass friend thinks, what kind of friend can he be? [11:53]
mircea_popescu maybe scribble a Why So Srs on the back of the sign just in case you run into people you know. [11:53]
cads hahaha [11:53]
cazalla cads: because he isn't a stranger [11:53]
mircea_popescu a great friend, inasmuch as you don't give a shit what he thinks on retarded topics [11:54]
mircea_popescu it will encourage him to spend more time thinking of better stuff. [11:54]
mircea_popescu win-win [11:54]
cads what I'm saying is that how would he feel about his friend being part of a cause that is out to menace him and people like him? [11:54]
mircea_popescu menace my foot. [11:54]
cazalla cads: case in point, my wife has a gay friend + indian (immigrant) to boot! i don't like degenerate faggots or immigrants but i don't mind him coming over for dinner, holding my son etc, strange huh [11:54]
mircea_popescu god gives cancer to people he doesn't hate, too. [11:54]
cads cazalla: that's not strange, that's human [11:55]
mircea_popescu cazalla that's only because he's not fingering your son yet. [11:55]
cads there's that, neh :P [11:55]
mircea_popescu (that you know about) [11:55]
cazalla mircea_popescu: i keep a close eye on him, don't you worry about that [11:55]
mircea_popescu good thinking. [11:55]
cazalla he is never with my son unsupervised [11:55]
mircea_popescu just to be sure, [11:55]
cazalla and baby monitor is good excuse to listen to all conversation going on in the loungeroom anyway [11:55]
mircea_popescu you should finger him at all times. [11:55]
cads make sure you get the first impression [11:56]
mircea_popescu impaction. [11:56]
cazalla gay friend or son? [11:56]
cads the fatherly touch [11:56]
mircea_popescu it just struck me about 500 people will be reading this log sunday morning with a hangover [11:56]
cazalla baby shits everywhere so it isn't a problem [11:56]
mircea_popescu and decide they really need new friends. [11:56]
punkman what kind of trollbox did I walk into [11:56]
mircea_popescu lmao [11:56]
cads The... horror. [11:57]
cazalla i've had a bottle of tawny port so i'm just about done [11:57]
cads eh cazalla you're arrite [11:57]
cads mixed up white man [11:57]
cads but arrite [11:57]
punkman no hangover, but drinking shall commence in 5 min [11:57]
cads and counding. [11:57]
cazalla still suss on you cads [11:58]
cazalla a bit too sjw-ish for me [11:58]
cads I offer something SJWs can't [11:58]
cazalla anyone who runs to the defense of unnamed blacks and supposed rape victims is suspect to me [11:58]
cads redemption. [11:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00086676 = 13.2614 BTC [-] [11:58]
cads and freedom from sin! [11:59]
mircea_popescu cazalla maybe he just hasn't gotten laid in a really long time [11:59]
mircea_popescu white knighting is in white man's genes. [11:59]
cazalla maybe i haven't.. fucking kid and breast feeding : [11:59]
cazalla i swear to god i never knew breast feeding could fuck up a good pair of tits in 5 weeks [11:59]
mircea_popescu how's getting laid prevent you from breastfeeding ? [11:59]
mircea_popescu there's other positions than doggy style you know [11:59]
cazalla "don't touch them" "they are too sensitive" "no i'm still sore from pregnancy for sex" "i'm tired" etc etc [12:00]
mircea_popescu spank her [12:00]
cazalla nah, gonna go to a gentlemans room soon [12:00]
cads and spank something else [12:00]
mircea_popescu what's the point of having gentlemen's rooms in australia ? [12:00]
cazalla no-one wants saggy tits with sour milk stained shirt : [12:01]
mircea_popescu for tourists like ? [12:01]
cazalla although our son seems to love em [12:01]
cazalla nfi, never been to one [12:01]
mircea_popescu no wonder. [12:01]
cazalla we had plenty of sex prior to pregnancy and birth [12:01]
cazalla cads: he has blue eyes and blonde hair btw, couldn't be prouder [12:02]
mircea_popescu from an indian guy ?! [12:02]
mircea_popescu that must be rare. [12:02]
cazalla lol [12:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00087293 = 11.7846 BTC [+] [12:02]
cads a handsome young Aryan I'm sure [12:04]
cads cazalla: you're a new dad? congrats [12:04]
cazalla ty cads [12:04]
jurov congrats, too. but don't spoil him :) [12:05]
mircea_popescu well maybe a little. [12:05]
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cazalla that'll depend on bitcoin over the years to come [12:06]
cads :D [12:06]
* cads tries to breath [12:06]
* cads toasts to :bitcoin over the years to come" [12:07]
cazalla i'll be sure to tell him to check his bitcoin privilege [12:07]
cazalla anyway, i'm off to bed [12:07]
cazalla it is interesting that when sober, i only lurk/read [12:08]
cazalla few drinks and i spew all sorts of bullshit : [12:08]
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cazalla typica fkn aussies [12:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32887 @ 0.00087355 = 28.7284 BTC [+] {2} [12:14]
cads [12:17]
ozbot Internet troll personality study: Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy, sadism. [12:17]
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cads heck, I have all of the dark tetrad [12:20]
cads and you know the best trolls honestly think they're not trolling [12:20]
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cads blah the article blatantly ignores the self reporting bias in requiring trolls to identify as trolls [12:23]
jurov troll and proud [12:23]
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cads but it's significant that self identifying trolls still scored horribly [12:23]
cads so while some trolls may have hiden themselves the real blatant ones decided "fuck, lets troll this test" [12:24]
jurov but really, do any non-narcissistic, well-aligned, non-machhiavellistic people exist? [12:24]
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jurov afaik if they do, then they only lurk [12:25]
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* Willdude123 is now known as RainbowFrag [12:26]
cads I dunnno I think trolls are free riders [12:26]
cads if you're a sadist you need to pay for your entertainment like the rest us [12:27]
* RainbowFrag is now known as RainbowFag [12:27]
cads trolls will be ejected from the dialog space soon. [12:27]
cads and will come back with more refined tactics [12:27]
cads as I am. [12:27]
* RainbowFag is now known as M6KIK [12:27]
cads we shall evolve [12:27]
cads we shall revise. [12:27]
cads we are legion ;) [12:28]
jurov since when the sadists must pay? [12:28]
* M6KIK is now known as WillTablet [12:28]
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mircea_popescu so while some trolls may have hiden themselves the real blatant ones decided "fuck, lets troll this test" << what the fuck does slate know. [12:36]
mircea_popescu “debating issues that are important to you,” “chatting with others,” “making new friends,” “trolling others,” and “other.” [12:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0055 = 0.143 BTC [+] {2} [12:37]
mircea_popescu most fucktarded set of options ever. [12:37]
cads I have sent people to shock websites for the lulz. [12:38]
cads I like to troll people in forums or the comments section of websites. [12:38]
cads The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt. [12:38]
mircea_popescu "hi r retarded" "hi i am 12 and where does dildo go ?" "sanity" and "other" [12:38]
cads some people actually agree with such statements [12:38]
mircea_popescu you sound like the something awful crowd. [12:38]
cads sick people :P [12:38]
cads like us! :D [12:38]
cads those three lines I posted were from the slate article [12:39]
cads as examples of troll sentiments [12:39]
mircea_popescu o i [12:39]
mircea_popescu c [12:39]
cads I've been sending people to since I was 13 [12:39]
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cads tubgirl, etc. [12:39]
cads not lots of people, mostly friends [12:39]
cads and irc peers [12:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3961 @ 0.00087357 = 3.4602 BTC [+] [12:40]
cads I like trolling particularly bad arguments on, god help me, facebook and youtube comments [12:40]
cads and who doesn't love corrupting the innocent? [12:41]
mircea_popescu i trolled a guy right here, and he enjoyed it. [12:41]
mircea_popescu your weaksauce sjwing not as much. [12:41]
cads beh fuck your guys' face with y'all white people acronyms [12:42]
cads rednecks [12:42]
cads ;) [12:42]
mircea_popescu lol [12:42]
mircea_popescu wait, you're black too ? [12:43]
cads no [12:43]
mircea_popescu this place's really gone downhill. [12:43]
mircea_popescu "Once upon a time, there was an enchanted prince, who ruled the land beyond the wobbles. One day, he discovered a spot on his face. Foolishly, he ignored it...and three years later, he died of cancer. The spot, however, flourished, and soon set out to seek its fortune." [12:45]
cads "The game is essentially an abstract synthesis of all arts and sciences. It proceeds by players making deep connections between seemingly unrelated topics." [12:50]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform so orlov finally found costa rica huh [12:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27677 @ 0.00086869 = 24.0427 BTC [-] {2} [12:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 32 @ 0.07 = 2.24 BTC [+] [12:54]
Namworld In Canada, people don't seem to care about immigrants. They all mix like it doesn't matter. I overheard someone at my old job say how he liked it so much more here than in the US because people weren't looking at him and less discrimination or something. [12:57]
Namworld Yet it doesn't seem like there's much difference between US and Canada to me in the culture. [12:57]
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cads well there's a big difference even across the US [12:59]
Namworld Yes, guess it depends on the area. [12:59]
Namworld I'm in Montreal. I suppose that has some good on what I experience. [13:00]
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cads wanna see a heat map of the geotagged tweets in the US using the word "nigger" in a negative sentiment? [13:01]
Namworld Sounds like fun [13:01]
cads [13:01]
cads the data was normalized according to total twitter traffic [13:01]
cads lemme find the actual interactive map [13:01]
cads that lets you see the geography of all sorts of slurs [13:02]
Namworld Would be nice to have a population map too to put that in perspective. [13:02]
mircea_popescu fascinating : exactly the areas where black people live. [13:02]
Namworld That data too [13:02]
mircea_popescu cads how would you trust the negative sentiment detection ? [13:02]
cads [13:02]
ozbot Hate Map [13:02]
Namworld Overlayed [13:02]
cads mircea_popescu: they paid students to manually code the statements for sentiment [13:03]
cads a little flaky but much better than automated sentiment detection, imo [13:03]
mircea_popescu fo sho [13:03]
mircea_popescu unless trolling [13:03]
cads right [13:03]
cads hopefully they blinded the kids enough to the geographic location that at least the overall shape is right [13:04]
cads mircea_popescu: actually [13:04]
cads the hate is /outside/ where blacks live [13:04]
mircea_popescu yeah it's at the north border of the space acually [13:05]
cads in little pods that correspond to high class suburbs or medium density rural [13:05]
cads and it drops off dramatically in the west, even for populated centers [13:05]
cads ie, LA has little proportion of the twitter bandwidth dedicated to "nigger" [13:06]
mircea_popescu californians lie. [13:06]
mircea_popescu your penny an hour students simple aren't sufficiently intellectually perverse to pick up on californian negative sentiment [13:07]
cads ahaah [13:07]
cads it would be hard to false positive a negative example of "nigger" :D [13:08]
cads there are a couple slurs in there like gook that are distributed in ways that seem completely arbitrary [13:09]
mircea_popescu i doubt you missed my point. [13:09]
cads I thought it was a jibe :) [13:10]
cads you're saying racist sentiment from white californians simply won't use the word 'nigger' [13:10]
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cads which I'd grant you ten fold :D [13:10]
cads and indeed, this test has no way to protect against that [13:11]
cads hehe, the redneck that's been arguing against me on this one will enjoy your theory [13:12]
mircea_popescu lol [13:13]
cads maybe it's better to be surrounded by idiots that yell slurs than by smooth talking devils in suits [13:15]
cads one can take the latter group as chumps [13:15]
cads and lead them around by nose rings [13:15]
cads maybe not so for californians! [13:15]
cads err [13:15]
cads former group! [13:15]
mircea_popescu my experience with racism is that it's usually the problem of the people concerned with it. [13:15]
cads people affected by it mostly don't understand how it affects them [13:16]
mircea_popescu mno. people who spend a lot of time thinking about it end up being fucking weird. [13:16]
mircea_popescu people who couldn't care less generally aren't a problem to anyone. [13:16]
mircea_popescu i would say that your average "sensitive" idiot is about twice as noxious as your average "racist". [13:17]
cads I do like to bait them :P [13:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26516 @ 0.00087104 = 23.0965 BTC [+] {2} [13:18]
mircea_popescu me too, but i kinda enjoy the first set more. [13:18]
cads keep in mind I and my brothers grew up here with a crappy accent as the cabbage eating weird kids that got picked on for our religion and culture [13:20]
cads remember romania is the mexico of europe to americans. [13:20]
cads so I've got some well placed hate for bigots and I'm okay with that for now [13:20]
mircea_popescu lol derp. [13:20]
mircea_popescu i don't think any us citizen alive today could pick out a romanian from a line-up if his anal virginity depended on it [13:21]
chetty really? [13:21]
mircea_popescu and you got picked out for being socially awkward and sexually unconvincing, not for "culture" [13:21]
mircea_popescu awkwardness is not culture. [13:22]
cads I'm not talking about in my adolescence, I'm talking about as a kid [13:22]
mircea_popescu picked on by who ? [13:22]
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mircea_popescu well were they adults or other kids ? [13:24]
cads just kids and neighborhood bullies really [13:26]
mircea_popescu so other kids. socially awkward and sexually unconvincing. [13:27]
mircea_popescu what, you think sexual traits suddenly manifest at 18 ? [13:27]
cads well obviously socially ackward [13:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00087575 = 8.3634 BTC [+] [13:28]
cads that's the fucking point, you're acting like people can't fucking treat socially ackward people with some fucking respect [13:28]
cads and I know that's false [13:28]
cads since people more or less treat me with respect despite my ackwardness [13:28]
mircea_popescu they can't. [13:29]
mircea_popescu the point is to help them overcome their issues. [13:29]
mircea_popescu this needs incentives. [13:29]
mircea_popescu "the beatings will continue until morale improves." [13:29]
cads I mean, a black kid in an all white classroom will be ackward. A boy with a vaganapenis will be ackward. A girl that wears a headdress is going to feel ackward. [13:31]
mircea_popescu just because people have meanwhile stopped giving a shit about you and your overall health and well being doesn't mean the people that used to care were wrong. [13:31]
cads why does it have to be an overburdening feeling though? [13:31]
mircea_popescu it's just meanwhile you live in a different sort of society, which is dispersed and disinterested. [13:31]
mircea_popescu it doesn't. it's up to them not to be. [13:32]
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cads so by your counsel, would it have been up to the slaves to accept the burden, and would it have been your advice simply improve morale till the situation changes or you're lynched. [13:33]
cads ? [13:33]
mircea_popescu no useful slave was ever lynched. [13:34]
mircea_popescu but yes, it is up to whoever to live his life, as his life is, rather than derp about how it should be. [13:34]
mircea_popescu i get it, everyone's special and dragons and the wrong gender and in the wrong time and insufficiently lottery winning. [13:35]
mircea_popescu not particularly interesting. [13:35]
cads so if someone is slandering you do you "derp about how it should be" or do you taking fucking recourse? [13:35]
cads or do you... "live your life" while your reputation is slandered? [13:36]
mircea_popescu well you may be inclined to review my record as the most slandered guy in the history of btc :) [13:36]
cads and take no offense or defense [13:36]
Namworld Had that in primary, living in the suburbs. Black kid in all white classroom. Had very few black people for the whole school. [13:37]
cads mircea_popescu: if I ever rape you in an alley one day you will limp back home, paste your asshole back together with some dabs of superglue and then tell no one and seek no revenge. [13:37]
Namworld Can't seem to recall any awkwardness to it. [13:37]
cads with that philosophy I can have you asshole when I want. [13:37]
mircea_popescu maybe i'll shoot you, what. [13:37]
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cads that's the philosophy you want opressed kids to take [13:37]
mircea_popescu maybe you're the one getting raep'd. [13:37]
mircea_popescu no, that's just the strawman you find convenient lol [13:38]
cads well that's my point, you have built in recourse and you know how to exercise it [13:38]
mircea_popescu so do they, so can they. let them. [13:38]
cads you say you have it because you deserve it [13:38]
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cads but you have it because you've been handed it [13:38]
mircea_popescu derp. [13:38]
mircea_popescu and if i have a business i didn't build that business ? [13:38]
mircea_popescu thank you obama for bitcoin and handing me mpex. [13:39]
mircea_popescu i suppose i owe tax nao too right ? [13:39]
cads you're saying if you were a nigger guinea you would have mpex. [13:39]
cads gtfo [13:39]
mircea_popescu i am a romanian in romania dood. [13:39]
mircea_popescu think it through. [13:39]
cads right, for the first thing you'd probably have been born in africa. [13:40]
* strello (~strello@unaffiliated/strello) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:40]
cads good luck from that start. [13:40]
mircea_popescu i'd have been pretty much the same born whenever and wherever. [13:40]
cads born into the family of a destitute mother that couldn't feed you properly the first few years of your life? [13:41]
cads born into the family that lived in bitter poverty and taught you to take everything you can from the dole? [13:41]
mircea_popescu what makes you think i coud have been born to a destitute mother that couldn't feed me properly ? [13:41]
mircea_popescu what, we're equal nao ? [13:41]
mircea_popescu people aren't interchangeable. [13:42]
cads the part that really gets me is not that you can't imagine yourself as an average black person, weighted down with the average viral meme load and nonsense beliefs about finance and law and white people and everyone being out to get you [13:43]
mircea_popescu why am i not an average romanian weighted down with the average viral meme load and nonsense belief romanias get ? [13:44]
mircea_popescu what, you think blacks invented stupidity or soemthing ? [13:44]
cads but mostly that you think someone of your talent would get to the same place in life no matter what initial condition [13:44]
mircea_popescu this is exactly true. [13:44]
mircea_popescu the derpage about "conditions" is a very weak excuse. [13:44]
mircea_popescu i dunno who buys it, but judging by how often it needs to be repeated i would guess no one [13:44]
cads mircea_popescu: because you're not sampled from the sample space of romanians. You're sampled from the sample space of humans. You need to be concerned about the average expected outcome of humans if only because that's essential to collaborative solutions to problems. [13:46]
mircea_popescu what's the average gender of the human race ? [13:47]
mircea_popescu you're a clever guy, you know at least the basics of where statistics is meaningfully usable and where it isn't. [13:47]
cads hrm, is there no revolutionary effort you will have joined simply because you disagree with the way things are for a group of people you care about? [13:50]
mircea_popescu i have been at the forefront of fucking revolutionary effort lol. [13:51]
mircea_popescu that's the difference, i speak of things i know, you speak of things you dream and imagine. unflattering as that may sound. [13:51]
cads yeah that's a criticism I don't take lightly. [13:51]
cads and you can stop with any further expounding of that line now. [13:52]
* PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:52]
* PsychoticBoy_ (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:52]
mircea_popescu well, so you ever been in a revolution ? [13:53]
mircea_popescu and i don't mean on facebook, i mean with a gun. [13:53]
cads the closes to that is some underground cryptoanarchist stuff and some occupy bullshit, nothing with a gun.. yet, neh? [13:54]
mircea_popescu ok so then, if it's not your experience, why is it your preoccupation ? [13:55]
cads both efforts fell apart into violence and fighting with nothing I could do [13:55]
cads I mean, I went to rallies, I marched on board meetings, it was fun [13:56]
* PsychoticBoy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [13:56]
cads two friends in the 'movement' got into a fight at a rally [13:56]
mircea_popescu yes yes but my objection here is that you allow surogates to populate your mental forest. [13:56]
mircea_popescu which is in principle an evil. [13:56]
cads and police descended on them, broke bones, femur, put them in the hospital [13:56]
mircea_popescu a revolution is when you break the bones of the police [13:57]
mircea_popescu not the other way around. [13:57]
mircea_popescu this is the key aspect here. not that there is violence, [13:57]
cads exactly [13:57]
mircea_popescu but that the only limit to the violence is your own consicence. [13:57]
mircea_popescu and otherwise, everyone can go straight off to the guillotine. [13:57]
* just21 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:57]
mircea_popescu but anyway, i'ma be off. we shall debate moar later! [13:59]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [23:13]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || - most days worth reading || - all days worth reading [23:13]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013 [23:13]
mircea_popescu good evening gents [23:13]
nubbins` more common to get ~0.1 [23:13]
nubbins` evening [23:13]
Apocalyptic evening mircea [23:13]
* smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...) [23:14]
benkay i get where you're coming from nubbins`, really i do [23:15]
benkay but bitcoins is fukken dangerous. [23:15]
* nubbins` nods [23:15]
nubbins` no argument there [23:15]
benkay not toys [23:15]
mircea_popescu bitcoins killd my auntie. [23:15]
benkay not 'consumer tech' [23:15]
mircea_popescu consumer tech also killed my auntie. [23:15]
benkay i suppose this is why normal humans aren't allowed to buy fancy paper in the us [23:15]
benkay they might get ripped off if they're not really smart and careful! [23:16]
benkay but there's 0.01% of people that are smart [23:16]
asciilifeform consumer tech demo [23:16]
asciilifeform [23:16]
benkay and 0.01% of people that are careful [23:16]
ozbot Monkey shooting in black with AK-47 (Kalashnikov) - YouTube [23:16]
mircea_popescu ripped off by the wrong people, even! [23:16]
nubbins` fancy paper [23:17]
mircea_popescu whoa it can handle the recoil ? [23:17]
benkay that makes like nobody that should be 'allowed' to play with these dangerous toys [23:17]
benkay or alternatively accept that 99.99999 of people are going to get fucked their whole lives, throw up hands and not give fucks. [23:18]
asciilifeform staged, if anyone didn't know. [23:18]
mircea_popescu somehow i imagined a monkey trying to fire an ak would end up flying. [23:18]
mircea_popescu what the fuck is it weigh, 50 lbs ? [23:18]
* nubbins` throws up hands [23:18]
nubbins` what else can i do! [23:18]
benkay make the babes happy [23:19]
nubbins` mircea_popescu: well, if little kids can shoot em... [23:20]
benkay pursue personal power [23:20]
nubbins` benkay: but i'm already doing both of those things D: [23:20]
asciilifeform nobody cancelled newton's 3rd. [23:20]
benkay yeah so let the scammers alone [23:20]
benkay or at least stop trying to foist your differentiation of scams on -assets [23:20]
mircea_popescu wtf ?! [23:20]
mircea_popescu benkay whai ?! [23:21]
nubbins` hey, this was dead until you brought it up again :P [23:21]
nubbins` mircea_popescu, i've been inducted into the ranks of pmb/rubecoin pushers [23:21]
mircea_popescu what is that [23:22]
mircea_popescu jesus how long have i been asleep [23:22]
benkay fair 'nuff [23:22]
mircea_popescu last i recall i was talking revolucion with some guy [23:22]
nubbins` yeah last thing we heard from you was time to shave my beard so i'll know how long i've been asleep [23:23]
mircea_popescu lmao [23:23]
mircea_popescu o wait pmb/rubecoin as in miner bonds and altchain scams ? [23:25]
* mircea_popescu goes to read the log [23:25]
nubbins` just go back like an hour [23:25]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i dunno if you've noticed this, but the logs are pretty much taylored for my convenience. if i'm up, an hour stretches over like 300 lines. yet the ten hours im asleep look in the log like an hour and a half. [23:26]
* coingenuity has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:26]
nubbins` that's got the makings of a great thesis statement [23:27]
mircea_popescu lol [23:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1200 @ 0.00083785 = 1.0054 BTC [+] {4} [23:28]
nubbins` [23:28]
nubbins` ^ old hat to many of you, but stories like this always get my gears turning [23:28]
ozbot Mathematician: Is Our Universe a Simulation? - Slashdot [23:28]
KRS-One ozbot: I think so. [23:29]
KRS-One or it can at least be modelled mathematically [23:29]
nubbins` Mathematical knowledge is unlike any other knowledge. Its truths are objective, necessary and timeless. [23:29]
* nubbins` masturbates to the preceding sentences [23:30]
KRS-One haha [23:30]
KRS-One .bait [23:30]
* KRS-One fwaps Ozbot [23:30]
nubbins` in a just universe, .bait would link you to the proof of a theorem [23:30]
ozbot [23:30]
KRS-One Eww, her bicycle seat gonna smell. [23:30]
asciilifeform [23:31]
asciilifeform (obligatory re: universe sim) [23:31]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell cads actualy, it is not, not that i don't appreciate your culture on the topic. the difference is subtly this : that what you propose is geared towards the present and the future, a matter of action, whereas what i was discussing was strictly as to the past and a matter of representation. [23:32]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:32]
KRS-One wonder if anyone has tried to pinpoint the location in the universe to the precise location where the big bang occurred, taking into account skew or any offset [23:33]
KRS-One there was the wmap project but that wasnt a specific goal [23:33]
nubbins` eh, not sure such a thing is yet possible [23:34]
mircea_popescu KRS-One the location where the big bang occured is not within the universe. [23:34]
asciilifeform likewise p != np because the kid playing sim-verse has a finite budget too... [23:34]
mircea_popescu or at least, not particularly more in one place than the other. [23:34]
* tyrion70 has quit (Quit: Leaving.) [23:34]
KRS-One if everything came from the singularity wouldnt there be that specific point in some kind of reference to us? [23:35]
mircea_popescu nope. [23:35]
nubbins` well, what's your frame of reference for locating the singularity? [23:35]
mircea_popescu might as well try to determine where on your body is the place where your mom got laid. [23:35]
KRS-One earth obviously [23:35]
mircea_popescu obviously she didn't get laid on your body. [23:35]
nubbins` relative to earth? we're flying through space [23:35]
KRS-One right but if we can model the universe somewhat and reverse time.. [23:35]
mircea_popescu but you can not reverse time. [23:35]
KRS-One we've done it with galaxies [23:36]
nubbins` ^ [23:36]
KRS-One on sim's you can [23:36]
mircea_popescu no, we haven't lol. [23:36]
mircea_popescu sims are toys. [23:36]
nubbins` sims make assumptions [23:36]
KRS-One yeah [23:36]
nubbins` consider the benign case of two galaxies smashing together and merging [23:36]
KRS-One we've simluated that [23:36]
* coingenuity ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:36]
nubbins` is a sim gonna show you what those two galaxies looked like before they crashed? [23:36]
nubbins` if so, to what resolution? etc [23:37]
* coingenuity has quit (Changing host) [23:37]
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KRS-One ah [23:37]
nubbins` might as well do a simulation of a pile of rotten mush to see what shape the banana was [23:37]
KRS-One too many assumptions [23:38]
* asciilifeform powers up a second trng, helping to deplete sim-meister's entropy pool. [23:38]
nubbins` or a simulation to see what shade of yellow the eggs in your cake were, etc [23:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10773 @ 0.0008752 = 9.4285 BTC [+] [23:38]
ThickAsThieves guys, if you suddenly pass out, i iz just rebooting [23:38]
nubbins` too many assumptions and too many one-way events [23:38]
ThickAsThieves LifeOS needs to repopulate scams [23:38]
nubbins` ThickAsThieves, on the bright side, we won't remember being asleep [23:38]
* transfix has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [23:39]
* transfix_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [23:39]
ThickAsThieves we won't remember being alive either [23:39]
* transfix (~nahz@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:39]
nubbins` or, to generalize: we won't [23:39]
* RBRubicon has quit (Quit: quit.....) [23:39]
ThickAsThieves sure we will [23:39]
mircea_popescu deadweasel just admitted to slashing a vietnamese girl while drunk ? or did i misread ? [23:39]
ThickAsThieves deadweasel spoke? [23:40]
nubbins` we will, yes, sure. but i'm talking about whether we won't [23:40]
* monkey (5ce1b605@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:40]
mircea_popescu he said he was jacking a rabbit with slices of vietnamese waitress. [23:40]
ThickAsThieves ah yes [23:40]
ThickAsThieves weird guy that one [23:40]
nubbins` heh [23:41]
mircea_popescu especially... what i want to know is what he did to the weasel. [23:41]
ThickAsThieves mustve got confused which part was sushi [23:41]
mircea_popescu they're both sushi. [23:41]
KRS-One heh [23:41]
nubbins` i think wait staff does too much running around to make good eating [23:41]
ThickAsThieves Bugpowder it's falling again! [23:41]
ThickAsThieves get out yer wallet [23:42]
nubbins` ideally you want a combination of little/no exercise and healthy eating [23:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00087702 = 54.2875 BTC [+] {2} [23:42]
nubbins` but those two things so rarely go together [23:42]
davout !t x.eur [23:42]
assbot Aren't those tins of tobacco right there behind you? [23:42]
mircea_popescu "Enky makes good posts" << is this the guy that bought t credits and rated me for it >? [23:42]
davout hmm how does that thing work? [23:42]
mircea_popescu !t m x.eur [23:42]
ThickAsThieves enky knows kako i think [23:42]
assbot [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00218173 / 0.00218173 / 0.00218173 (450 shares, 0.98 BTC), 7D: 0.00194567 / 0.00201007 / 0.00218173 (3800 shares, 7.64 BTC), 30D: 0.00166114 / 0.00179489 / 0.00218173 (21300 shares, 38.23 BTC) [23:42]
davout mircea_popescu: ty [23:42]
ThickAsThieves do they do that 4x thing together? [23:43]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust enikesha [23:43]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user enikesha: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Sun Sep 16 18:40:11 2012 [23:43]
mircea_popescu tthat guy ? [23:43]
ThickAsThieves dont think so [23:43]
mircea_popescu i would guess not huh [23:43]
ThickAsThieves ;;gettrust enky [23:43]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user enky: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never [23:43]
ThickAsThieves ;;gettrust enky2 [23:43]
mircea_popescu myeah nm, just my head got impacted. [23:43]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user enky2: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never [23:43]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder: [23:44]
mircea_popescu Maybe that was the last quoted price before the MPOEbot went down. << exactly. [23:44]
nubbins` better your head than your bowel [23:44]
mircea_popescu FabianB no it's the last quoted. [23:44]
mircea_popescu benkay:sell everyone cardanos at 1000x markup. << i think you're the fifth guy planning to do basically that. [23:45]
mircea_popescu buy $5k worth of cardanos and $15k worth of suits, hassle execs for three months and bill $3.5mn worth of bs. [23:46]
mod6 are they ready to order? [23:46]
nubbins` now that's pulchritude [23:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: benkay: what kind of idiot would buy at 1000x? << the kind of idiot that expects service, which maximally extended is the kind of idiot who only deals with people in his wot. so basically, any serious businessman. [23:47]
mircea_popescu that's why startups have advantages in the mktplace. [23:47]
mircea_popescu mod6 not just yet. [23:47]
asciilifeform 1000x sounds a bit tall, that's all. [23:47]
mod6 ok thx :) [23:47]
mircea_popescu a like that. well maybe. [23:47]
cazalla cads around? [23:48]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 3500/(15+5) [23:48]
gribble 175 [23:48]
mircea_popescu 100x! [23:48]
mircea_popescu benkay:if the opportunity presents itself i'd be happy to. i'm not about to cold-call all the international law firms in dc, though. <<< because why ? [23:49]
asciilifeform main challenge will be assisting noobs in learning to 'tell shit from shinola.' [23:49]
* tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:49]
mircea_popescu that's exactly equal to saying cca 2009 "well if some bitcoins appear on my harddrives i'll be glad. i'm not abouit to run bs code on my computer which i need for trying to strip naked the sims" [23:49]
ThickAsThieves main challenge will be assisting noobs in learning to 'tell shit from shinola.' /// sounds like competition is needed [23:50]
ThickAsThieves maybe make two rival companies [23:50]
asciilifeform S.KGB [23:50]
nubbins` s.hit and s.hinola [23:50]
mircea_popescu benkay: [23:50]
mircea_popescu there is an awful chasm between people who want encryption and people who are willing to operate under the inconvenience of actual security. << into the permanent records of bitcoin-assets this goes. [23:50]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you have to draw that one. [23:50]
benkay mircea_popescu: did you see the part where i said "although..." trailing off while pondering the work/payoff function? [23:51]
nubbins` mircea_popescu, there comes a point where you have to turn it into an abstract [23:51]
* monkey has quit (Quit: Page closed) [23:51]
mircea_popescu benkay no. i only read the parts that i can use (twice). the rest i don't read at all :D [23:51]
benkay mircea_popescu: funny man [23:52]
mircea_popescu nubbins` ok, let's try as an abstract : there's an awful chasm etween the people who want to cum and the people who are willing to operate under the inconvenience of actually getting all that girlslime all over their cock. [23:52]
benkay the inconvenience of girlslime!? [23:52]
mircea_popescu it's abstract man. [23:52]
asciilifeform i was just gonna throw that in [23:52]
mircea_popescu whoa i beat someone at the quick typing game once. [23:52]
mircea_popescu now i can die happy. or at least content. or whatever. [23:53]
ThickAsThieves girlslime, pretty sure thatd make the politically incorrect list [23:53]
ThickAsThieves and snailtrail [23:53]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves should it be gender-balanced-lubrication ? [23:53]
asciilifeform 'wd-40' for all. [23:53]
asciilifeform no discriminatory advantage permitted! [23:53]
mircea_popescu you know the girls do most of the sliming. which is kind of weird seeing how the boys get most of the hurt if they didn't. [23:53]
mod6 lol @ snailtrail. [23:54]
ThickAsThieves so any predictions what gox will announce? [23:54]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves chemtrails. [23:54]
ThickAsThieves i'm going with "btc withdrawals are now partially open, so we can monitor the situation [23:55]
mircea_popescu speaking of which, are chemtrails the result of quadriplegic women on chemo moving about the hospital ? [23:55]
ThickAsThieves then a wave of everyone saying they cant get coins out [23:55]
mod6 then a wave of everyone pelting magicaltwit with flaming bags of dog shit [23:56]
nubbins` mircea_popescu: [23:56]
mircea_popescu magicallol [23:56]
nubbins` no cocks necessary. [23:56]
ThickAsThieves well scammers find ways to drag it out [23:56]
mircea_popescu nubbins` pretty good! [23:56]
mircea_popescu want some atc ? [23:56]
ThickAsThieves maybe they release some coins for vocal customers [23:57]
ThickAsThieves take the atc nubs [23:57]
ThickAsThieves you know you wanna [23:57]
ThickAsThieves be one of us michael [23:57]
nubbins` mircea_popescu: sure, send 'em to 1AltcoinSucksCocks [23:57]
mircea_popescu hater. [23:57]
* nubbins` shrugs :D [23:57]
nubbins` who's michael? [23:57]
mircea_popescu you do realise that without a hater atc would never win. [23:58]
nubbins` my pleasure to be a necessary cog [23:58]
mircea_popescu nubbins, the necessary cog [23:58]
mircea_popescu sounds like a good title for a kids book [23:58]
* benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [23:58]
ThickAsThieves its from that vampire movie [23:58]
nubbins` or a business card [23:58]
ThickAsThieves lost boys? [23:58]
mircea_popescu nubbins` or that. [23:58]
nubbins` best business card title i ever saw was "scrabble blank feeler" [23:58]
mircea_popescu da fuck is that ?! [23:59]
mod6 haha [23:59]
nubbins` heh. well you have played scrabble, yes? [23:59]
mircea_popescu i have. [23:59]
ThickAsThieves "cheater" [23:59]
nubbins` and players often put the tiles in a bag [23:59]
mircea_popescu i like playing "all languages scrabble" but generally people dont want to [23:59]
nubbins` the scrabble blank feeler takes an extra long time getting his tiles. [23:59]
mircea_popescu o i see [23:59]
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