Forum logs for 16 Dec 2013

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC	[00:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00089943 = 24.0148 BTC [-]	[00:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00089943 = 5.3066 BTC [-]	[00:40]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1100 @ 0.00089949 = 0.9894 BTC [+]	[00:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00089949 = 12.5029 BTC [+]	[01:05]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 283 @ 0.0028479 = 0.806 BTC [+]	[01:08]
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mircea_popescu	;;eauth mircea_popescu	[01:16]
gribble	Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452	[01:16]
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mircea_popescu	;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:ab62ac49dc6fe5b52726b421d41eb2c753a4056ad1457349660e8819	[01:16]
gribble	You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452	[01:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.09666666 = 0.29 BTC [-] {2}	[01:17]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.09037504 = 0.3615 BTC [-] {3}	[01:18]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.05 = 0.65 BTC	[01:19]
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mircea_popescu	ok, so, major announcement :	[01:45]
fiat500	o no	[01:46]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin-central & mpex are proud to announce X.EUR, http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.EUR	[01:46]
fiat500	oh, sweet	[01:46]
mircea_popescu	teh physically settled monthly euro future	[01:46]
mircea_popescu	it will start trading tomorrow.	[01:46]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00089942 = 33.7732 BTC [-] {3}	[01:47]
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jurov	w00t	[01:48]
pizzaman1337	wait, physically settled?	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[01:49]
jurov	but dunno when b-c finally verifies my company acct	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	ie, actual future, not bucket shop bs.	[01:49]
pizzaman1337	MP comes with a briefcase full of cash to my door?	[01:49]
*	pizzaman1337 reads	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 no, but you get euros in your bc acct.	[01:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28974 @ 0.00090032 = 26.0859 BTC [+] {2}	[01:53]
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jurov	heh looks I will have to do with briefcases of cash, if someone exercises them via coinbr	[01:55]
jurov	this gonna get interesting	[01:56]
mircea_popescu	jurov you can probably just subsign.	[01:57]
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sundun_	hey	[01:57]
sundun_	anyone here?	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	ie, ask YOUR customer to gpg sign THEIR bc acct.	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	and oversign that and ship it to davout	[01:58]
sundun_	o i guess that's a yes >_<	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	sup sundun_ ?	[01:58]
jurov	mhm, good then	[01:58]
sundun_	just saying hi	[01:58]
sundun_	had a couple of questions	[01:58]
sundun_	but i dunno how active this chat is	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	jurov i don't imagine they'd look too kindly on you fronting for ppl on your own acct anyway	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	sundun_ this chat is the heart and especially brains of btc finance. what do you need ?	[01:59]
jurov	i was going to ask anyway	[01:59]
sundun_	haha mircea	[01:59]
sundun_	soooo	[01:59]
pizzaman1337	you laugh...	[01:59]
sundun_	i'm not sure what that means XD	[01:59]
sundun_	anyway i was thinking of investing in neo&bee	[02:00]
sundun_	but not sure if i should do it via havelock	[02:00]
sundun_	or via the lmbholdings site	[02:00]
jurov	so you aren't thinking about that anymore	[02:00]
jurov	that's good ;)	[02:00]
sundun_	haha you're saying it's good that ive already decided to invest	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	at this point you'd have to be off your rocker to do anything involving havelock.	[02:01]
sundun_	why micrea?	[02:01]
sundun_	what's wrong with havelock	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-12-2013#422307	[02:01]
ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log	[02:01]
sundun_	what	[02:01]
sundun_	you want me to read that long chat?	[02:02]
jurov	virtex, havelocks biggest asset, went into trouble	[02:02]
sundun_	can i get a tldr version	[02:02]
fiat500	is the situation in cyprus really this dire?	[02:02]
sundun_	what does that mean	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	sundun_ it autohighlights where you need to start.	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	fiat500 sounds pretty bad	[02:02]
fiat500	interesting	[02:02]
jurov	sundun_: if you're srs with the inestment, prefer full infor over tldr	[02:02]
sundun_	bleh i dont understand	[02:03]
sundun_	azoo sure. they reorganised as a entity run by "no one", recently. after which they allowed their largest company (virtex) to simply walk away from the investors 12:57:29mircea_popescu:collected >4k btc this year, paid no dividends, is now gone.	[02:03]
sundun_	this?	[02:04]
sundun_	virtex is stealing money?	[02:04]
sundun_	crap	[02:04]
jurov	they frame it as "exchange for real shares registered in alberta"	[02:04]
Duffer1	dundun_ if you're unsure of the offering or the exchange then just hold onto your btc for dear life, do not let go	[02:04]
jurov	but since it's CAD-denominated, it's as good as scam	[02:04]
sundun_	but i want to invest in btc buesinesss	[02:05]
sundun_	just not sure how	[02:05]
sundun_	but alot of people have funds in havelock	[02:05]
sundun_	it's a scam for them too?	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	Duffer1 has a point, and so does jurov. don't rush it.	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	you	[02:05]
sundun_	sigh i just sent half a bitcoin to havelock	[02:05]
fiat500	4:04 PM but i want to invest in btc buesinesss	[02:05]
fiat500	4:05 PM just not sure how	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	ll be very sorry after you lose your btc, better hold on to it.	[02:05]
fiat500	this is not the right way to look at it	[02:05]
sundun_	how should i look at it	[02:05]
Duffer1	sec	[02:05]
fiat500	unless you are an amazing philanthropist :P	[02:05]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[02:05]
sundun_	sorry i'm super nooby i want to learn more >_<	[02:05]
jurov	read more then ;)	[02:06]
sundun_	sigh	[02:06]
sundun_	okay	[02:06]
sundun_	i'm willing	[02:06]
Duffer1	sundun_ i wrote this just for you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=353439	[02:06]
sundun_	this chat's ai is kind of confusing	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	yeah, read the logs.	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	!b 2	[02:06]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1506852/plain/)	[02:06]
sundun_	or aesthetically unappearling	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	bwahaha kakobrekla you hear that ? teh ai is borkt!	[02:06]
Duffer1	assbot has tourettes (amazing)	[02:07]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	"i got no time and i gotta invest". H. Ellison's sequel.	[02:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.24077142 = 1.6854 BTC [+] {2}	[02:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.2405 = 1.6835 BTC [-] {2}	[02:08]
sundun_	so duffer1 you invested in losing bitcoin stocks?	[02:09]
sundun_	and that's why you don't advise it?	[02:09]
Duffer1	there were several points	[02:09]
sundun_	and the guys that you ivnested in	[02:09]
sundun_	ran off with 182 BTC	[02:10]
sundun_	damn	[02:10]
Duffer1	btc is almost certainly a better investment then X	[02:10]
sundun_	so everyone here does not want to invest in bitcoin securities?	[02:10]
Duffer1	i'm not saying that	[02:10]
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mircea_popescu	btc is almost certainly a better investment then X << ESPECIALLY if you don't really read/know what X does.	[02:10]
Duffer1	there are always going to be projects worth supporting	[02:10]
sundun_	so what are you saying	[02:10]
pankkake	if you don't really know or understand what the thing is about, if ANYTHING is unclear, don't invest	[02:11]
Duffer1	yes	[02:11]
Duffer1	and	[02:11]
Duffer1	even if you do know what it's about, it's very unlikely to outperform btc itself as an investment	[02:11]
fiat500	dont just invest in btc "business" for the sake of doing it	[02:12]
sundun_	so are you guys not invested in btc securities :/	[02:12]
sundun_	you're saying that i shouldn't invest cuz i'm not completely knowledgable	[02:12]
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mircea_popescu	they are, they just try to conspire to keep you away from the really good stuff see ?	[02:12]
fiat500	lol	[02:12]
twizt	lol	[02:12]
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sundun_	:/	[02:13]
sundun_	i'm confused	[02:13]
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Duffer1	he's joking man	[02:13]
sundun_	okay	[02:14]
fiat500	sundun_: why do companies list themselves on the stock market in general?	[02:14]
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sundun_	for supporters	[02:14]
fiat500	lolz	[02:14]
twizt	no	[02:14]
sundun_	wat	[02:14]
twizt	for initial capital	[02:14]
sundun_	yeah	[02:14]
sundun_	support	[02:15]
sundun_	financial support that they need to run business	[02:15]
twizt	thats not support	[02:15]
pankkake	mircea_popescu: I've been accused to do that. same as mining	[02:15]
sundun_	how is it not support	[02:15]
twizt	having facebook followers is support ;)	[02:15]
pankkake	there's no use :(	[02:15]
sundun_	oh i c	[02:15]
sundun_	i meant in different way	[02:15]
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sundun_	anyway	[02:15]
sundun_	you guys have scared me	[02:15]
Duffer1	pankkake there is hope still, he did find his way here	[02:15]
fiat500	(also lets not consider cases where they are forced to because they've reached a threshold of stakeholders)	[02:15]
sundun_	i didn't think it would be a big deal to invest in neo&bee	[02:15]
pankkake	:)	[02:15]
twizt	everything is a risk sundun_	[02:15]
sundun_	i understand its' a risk	[02:16]
sundun_	don't invest anything you're unable to lose	[02:16]
sundun_	blah blah	[02:16]
twizt	just gotta make sure u if you should take certain ones or not	[02:16]
sundun_	okay	[02:16]
sundun_	thanks i mean it	[02:16]
pankkake	the "can't afford to lose" is certainly tired, and highly incomplete. you have to judge what is the risk and the potential reward	[02:16]
pankkake	if you can get 10% if it works, but it has a 50% chance to work, it's way too risky	[02:17]
sundun_	i see	[02:18]
sundun_	so back to havelock	[02:18]
sundun_	mircea thinks havelock is a scam	[02:18]
sundun_	bc of all the failed securities	[02:18]
Duffer1	even if they aren't a scam just look at the track record of their offerings	[02:18]
Duffer1	they might as well be a scam	[02:18]
sundun_	yeah failed securities	[02:18]
pankkake	I believe they don't have the best interests of shareholders anymore	[02:18]
fiat500	mircea_popescu: curious, say btcusd is at $40k, just to pluck a number out of thin air	[02:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00090081 = 9.3684 BTC [+]	[02:19]
sundun_	i see	[02:19]
sundun_	so even asicmining?	[02:19]
sundun_	i know it's been seriously failing	[02:19]
fiat500	do you still see mpex registration staying at 30BTC?	[02:19]
sundun_	lmao	[02:19]
mircea_popescu	fiat500 yes.	[02:19]
pankkake	+in mind	[02:19]
mircea_popescu	30 btc will still be 0.00000003% of btc in circulation. it's not a high barrier by any means.	[02:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 115 @ 0.00289 = 0.3324 BTC [+]	[02:20]
pizzaman1337	I wonder if someday I'd ever consider selling my MPEX registration...	[02:20]
fiat500	thats a nice way to look at it	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	and if 40k is too high, then people should pay less per btc	[02:21]
fiat500	the accepted theory on deflation is it causes prices to drop, looks like you're having none of that (or dont care about USD exchange rate)	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	this isn't a price, it's a barrier.	[02:21]
fiat500	ah	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	you're not buying something from me, you're proving something to me.	[02:21]
fiat500	the 30btc is your version of accreditation then	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	half of it.	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	the financial half. you also gotta be able to talk to the exchange.	[02:22]
pizzaman1337	will you ever stop allowing new registrations?	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	altoghether ? probably not.	[02:25]
pankkake	I already thought registrations were discretionary	[02:25]
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jurov	pizzaman1337: only if you can find a provable way to forget your gpg key	[02:28]
fiat500	has the average investor done well on mpex?	[02:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.00089936 = 7.9593 BTC [-] {2}	[02:29]
pizzaman1337	jurov: mpex allows updating keys, right?	[02:29]
jurov	no it does not	[02:30]
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jurov	last i heard	[02:30]
asciilifeform	wait, srsly?	[02:30]
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pizzaman1337	even if I think my key has been compromised?	[02:30]
jurov	there were some amends for unlucky people who had expiration date set, but afaik not anymore	[02:30]
jurov	then it's 30b for new acct.	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	fiat500 http://trilema.com/2013/the-list-of-discontinued-assets-on-mpex/ ; http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-one-year-of-dividends/ etc	[02:31]
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fiat500	"on average the MPEx investor buying discontinued assets exclusively made a net loss of about two percent over the course of a little more than a year and a half"	[02:32]
fiat500	neat	[02:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.001 = 2 BTC	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	overall s.dice broke even on price and made bank on dividends, s.mpoe paid a little dividends and went up about 30x or so since listing	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	and the smaller things are well... small.	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	the options tho, people made bank there	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-bonds-historical-data-dec-2012-nov-2013/ and http://trilema.com/2012/mpoe-bonds-historical-data/ are both negative.	[02:34]
ozbot	MPOE bonds historical data, Dec 2012 - Nov 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[02:34]
pizzaman1337	I'm curious to see what/if any affect X.EUR might have on things outside mpex/b-c	[02:36]
pizzaman1337	looks like someone placed a buy order?	[02:36]
Vexual	the mention of suitcases in this channel will propagate to a web article on bitcoin>bin ladens	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 ya lol	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile : 84 cases of the plague w/ 40% mortality in Madagascar -- it has morphed from the original bubonic plague to pneumonic plague, easily transmissable...	[02:39]
Vexual	i told them not to open the vial	[02:39]
benkay	oh joy pneumonic.	[02:43]
fiat500	i laughed my ass off at the thought of jurov having to shuttle briefcases of cash for coinbr uses	[02:43]
fiat500	*users	[02:43]
jurov	hell yes	[02:44]
kakobrekla	its not suppose to be aesthetically appearling	[02:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22962 @ 0.00090319 = 20.739 BTC [+] {3}	[02:45]
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jurov	pizzaman1337: if you used a cardano for mpex trade, then it would be feasible to sell the acct	[02:47]
mircea_popescu	now this is true. course is risky, if your key falls in the fucking pit and dies, you're sol	[02:47]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise, you can actually deliver an acct.	[02:47]
jurov	but no it would not. you could have PUSH prepared for later execution	[02:48]
jurov	*signed	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	if you know what your shit will be like atg the time of demise.	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	say yiou have a push for X and you meanwhile sold Y	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	you'd have to keep it updated.	[02:48]
pizzaman1337	every time you did anything	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	(trivial to code into your pympex or w/e you use, obviously)	[02:48]
pizzaman1337	but then you need to keep that safe too	[02:49]
jurov	i can just sign PUSH\|addr\|9999999 for all assets?	[02:49]
kakobrekla	i use punch cards.	[02:49]
mircea_popescu	jurov ya but it'll fail	[02:49]
asciilifeform	ok friendly reminder	[02:49]
asciilifeform	cardano key extraction is not physically impossible (that'd be a lie) - just non-trivial.	[02:49]
jurov	hmmmmmmm.... so a bunch of smaller then	[02:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how'd one do it ?	[02:50]
asciilifeform	resistance to physical attack is not on the menu. (if you want this, encase yours in concrete.)	[02:50]
Vexual	epoxy	[02:50]
jurov	no need to extract the keys, prepared in advance PUSH will do	[02:50]
asciilifeform	see, there are two contradictory design objectives	[02:50]
asciilifeform	auditability and physical security	[02:51]
asciilifeform	they cannot be reconciled	[02:51]
asciilifeform	so the latter isn't in the mix	[02:51]
jurov	Vexual: asciilifeform posted a paper exactly about that yest	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so suppose i want to extract the key so i can make a mpex acct and sell it ands then later steal the guy's shit. how do i do it ?	[02:51]
asciilifeform	the only definite promise is that the key cannot be exfiltrated silently by the attached pc.	[02:51]
asciilifeform	1) read the (to be published) design docs	[02:51]
asciilifeform	2) remove appropriate chips	[02:52]
asciilifeform	3) read back bits	[02:52]
asciilifeform	4) process into gpg-compatible key.	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[02:52]
Vexual	nintendo has that exopy that will cunt up a chip if you try to get it off	[02:52]
dub	so, we need a new wot btw	[02:52]
asciilifeform	Vexual: if you keep keys in SRAM it gets much easier	[02:52]
dub	S.WOT?	[02:52]
pizzaman1337	mircea_popescu: you could pre-sign push commands for 1 satoshi a few billion times (or withdraw commands, or whatever)	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	dub why ?!	[02:53]
benkay	why new wot?	[02:53]
dub	current is broken	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 you could, but think of the effort.	[02:53]
asciilifeform	but then you risk loss on dead battery, airport xray, etc.	[02:53]
benkay	dub: broken hao?	[02:53]
dub	http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=stamit&sign=ANY&type=RECV	[02:53]
ozbot	Rating Details for User 'stamit'	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	dub can you be like explicit and everything ?	[02:53]
dub	story is this guy has some kind of personality issue where he can	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	i seem to recall stamit being sanwe.	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	sane*	[02:54]
dub	't get over one person (gmaxwell) being a fuckwit	[02:54]
dub	so he rants a little bit, makes a nuisance of himself in a couple of channels	[02:54]
dub	gmax and shilltown negrate him	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck is "thelordoftime"	[02:54]
dub	rules say if your trust web with nanotube is <0 you can't use the system	[02:55]
truffles	gmaxwell that douche	[02:55]
asciilifeform	since this is important, i'll repeat it: you can have a cryptowidget that nukes itself when disassembled, circuits potted in unobtainium, etc. or you can have one whose function you can personally verify. can't have both. 'fried ice.'	[02:55]
dub	mircea_popescu: gmax shil, 12 year old operator in 0otc	[02:55]
dub	-otc*	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	dub is this -otc drama ?	[02:55]
dub	its spilled out of -otc but basically	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	so the argument that wot is broken says that you can't rate unless you're above 0 and idiots can get you below 0 ?	[02:56]
dub	correct	[02:56]
dub	key is that nanotube has a Trust Cabal effect	[02:57]
asciilifeform	wait, everyone's rating counts towards this purpose equally?	[02:57]
asciilifeform	that's bizarre	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	the counter to this is that if you don't do this, anyone can end up -infinity by the effect of endless socks	[02:57]
Vexual	needs proof of stake	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	"I haven't traded with this guy, but I've heard from people I trust that he has used legal intimidation to force censorship of people's ratings of him. "	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	herp.	[02:58]
dub	exactly	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	since when is retardtown preoccupied with censorship lol	[02:58]
dub	'derp derp derp doing this will make gmaxwell like me'	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	or is it one of those, "we can't stand censorship that's not directed at the enemy"	[02:58]
asciilifeform	proof of stake? then who'd need wot. just have people sign 'i like mr. xyz' with an addr. key	[02:59]
asciilifeform	the other way to avoid 'imperium in imperio' in a wot is: a tyrant.	[02:59]
Vexual	50000bc hates you	[03:00]
dub	stamit is weird and has entitlement issues in that he thinks being a bag of air breathing meat entitles him to some basic rights	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	dub the funny thing is, gmaxwell himself is like 3 angry people away from oblivion	[03:00]
nubbins`	thing about the wot is that most of the ratings are less than useless	[03:00]
dub	but hes no scammer	[03:00]
nubbins`	seriously	[03:00]
nubbins`	"his ppusd for my btc"	[03:00]
nubbins`	who gives a fuck	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` thing about this world is that most of everything in it is less than useless.	[03:00]
nubbins`	Web of Children	[03:00]
asciilifeform	easy fix for wot (was gonna write this myself before i ever heard of btc) is: no global totals.	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	same is true of houses, women, puppies, clouds, wjhat have you	[03:00]
asciilifeform	any user must be viewed through the lens of a selected other.	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nobody reallty uses the global totals that's sane	[03:00]
benkay	^^	[03:00]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: even the puppies? D;	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	this is like, mpoe-pr 2012 bitcoin 101	[03:01]
asciilifeform	except, if we are told correctly, for the 0-cutoff	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	well it used to be a 0 total, apparently nanotube improved it so it's 0 to him	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	since he runs gribble there's some sense to this (as grible could reasonably use his rating to see the world)	[03:01]
asciilifeform	fixed then. got our tyrant plugged in.	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	i suppose a decent solution for this is for an interested 3rd party to make dubble, which looks from dub's perspective	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	i think nano'd be amenable to the arrangement.	[03:02]
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nanotube	all the code is foss. wanna spin up your own bot, nobody's stopping you.	[03:03]
nanotube	it was just an expedient method to stop rating spam/shilling in its tracks.	[03:03]
nubbins`	nubble	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	i don't really see a better way tbh.	[03:04]
mircea_popescu	no matter what you do you'll end up with this tradeoff.	[03:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00090275 = 1.1736 BTC [-]	[03:04]
mircea_popescu	you know exopy is much cuter than epoxy. i wonder why they didn't call it exopy.	[03:06]
Vexual	stupid chemists	[03:08]
nubbins`	!ticker m s.mg	[03:08]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.000115 / 0.00011508 / 0.000155 (3000 shares, 0.35 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.00014023 / 0.00016 (98322 shares, 13.79 BTC)	[03:08]
nubbins`	!ticker h smg	[03:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SMG] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00010025 / 0.00013905 / 0.00020000 (19055 shares, 2.64967247 BTC), 30D: 0.00005778 / 0.00011754 / 0.00020000 (74621 shares, 8.77068209 BTC)	[03:08]
nubbins`	exopy describes how complicated it is to find the exits	[03:09]
nubbins`	fire marshals use it when inspecting buildings	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:10]
mircea_popescu	dub i'd be much more worried for people like http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=quickcoin&sign=ANY&type=RECV	[03:10]
mircea_popescu	that kid's now fucked for instance.	[03:11]
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nubbins`	heh	[03:12]
nubbins`	"i'm rating this guy -10 because he scammed wrinklemonster"	[03:12]
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nubbins`	mircea_popescu: speaking of ratings, how about giving me some love one of these days?	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	;;rated nubbins`	[03:13]
gribble	You have not yet rated user nubbins`	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	o hey.	[03:13]
dub	lel	[03:14]
dub	http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=tim-tams&sign=ANY&type=RECV	[03:14]
ozbot	Rating Details for User 'tim-tams'	[03:14]
pankkake	blame the `	[03:14]
dub	not sure if sockies	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	;;rate nubbins` 2 One of the first Stock Warrant holders.	[03:14]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user nubbins` has been recorded.	[03:14]
nubbins`	hey! thanks	[03:14]
nubbins`	pankkake: everyone does ;)	[03:14]
truffles	look at mp spaming ratings	[03:14]
truffles	inside job	[03:14]
nubbins`	"ident with gribble or you're getting banned in 60 seconds"	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	fucking historical too, like some guy goiing "o yeah, and then i bought the 3rd share printed in the us"	[03:15]
nubbins`	you have any idea how fucking hard it is to auth in 60 seconds? D;	[03:15]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: i still have plans to make a nice print of it some day	[03:15]
nubbins`	cutting my teeth on a related project right now	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	depending how your offline stuff is set up you might not even be able to log in 60 seconds.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	dub definitely sockies, 2 days after he negged a scammer.	[03:17]
nubbins`	tim-tams sells xau	[03:17]
mircea_popescu	like a lot ?	[03:18]
nubbins`	sorry, ah!	[03:18]
nubbins`	*ag	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	a	[03:18]
nubbins`	not a ton	[03:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIF] 701 @ 0.00049999 = 0.3505 BTC [+]	[03:21]
nubbins`	just kind of odd to see people selling metals for btc these days	[03:21]
benkay	almost as odd as physical bitcoins, eh?	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	what;s so odd about it ?	[03:22]
nubbins`	ah, i guess i'm just making the assumption that he initially bought these metals with btc	[03:23]
nubbins`	that may not be the case	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	seems improbable.	[03:23]
nubbins`	well, the alternative (that he's buying btc with fiat via PMs) makes a lot more sense	[03:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.02316222 = 0.2085 BTC [+] {4}	[03:24]
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nubbins`	i guess never really occurred to me, as i've only done the opposite	[03:24]
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mircea_popescu	the uppitty tortilla character supposedly got into btc by trading his silver stash	[03:25]
kakobrekla	better tortilla than usagi	[03:26]
kakobrekla	both sound like dishes	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	i thought usagi sold his guitar.	[03:26]
nubbins`	heh!	[03:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00090275 = 5.3262 BTC [-]	[03:27]
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nubbins`	i had bought about $2000 worth of btc before i realized that it made far more sense to sell goods and services for btc	[03:27]
nubbins`	i think the first thing i sold was a btc logo t-shirt	[03:27]
kakobrekla	"get me some sushi and some raw usagi! And bring a spoon, cant put my eyes out with these sticks even if i wanted"	[03:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1615 @ 0.00090364 = 1.4594 BTC [+]	[03:31]
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mircea_popescu	diametric ello.	[03:37]
diametric	hey	[03:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00090366 = 10.9343 BTC [+]	[03:41]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/encarnacao-do-demonio-1.jpg	[03:47]
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diametric	fun	[03:50]
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mircea_popescu	apparently google imaging "site:trilema.com tits" and other dirty words yields a bevy of cool stuff.	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	i guess now i know what i'll be doing when i'll be a dried up geezer.	[04:02]
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diametric	mircea_popescu: yeah i don't know if you realized, but you left directory indexes on	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	tis deliberate	[04:04]
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BingoBoingo	Since I seem to get most of my traffic from addressing n00b traps http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/12/15/dogecoin-the-impeding-danger-of-old-meme/ So Doge	[04:04]
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diametric	mircea_popescu: so i take it you've been informed of my digital fabrication abilities?	[04:05]
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mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo "Well this is somewhat embarrassing, isn’t it?"	[04:05]
pankkake	I wget -r trilema but besides a few old blog headers nothing much interesting	[04:06]
asciilifeform	diametric makes very nifty flying machines. and scanned head busts. and other goodies.	[04:06]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: No doubt, but embarassement is a force of education	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo turns out i had copied ther whole line	[04:07]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, you might wish to do your htaccess tolerantly, so http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/12/15/dogecoin-the-impeding-danger-of-old-meme/%20So%20Doge still resolves	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	Really?	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	Ah	[04:09]
BingoBoingo	I usually just left click links. I forget that there's 800 different ways to move them from the IRC client to the browser.	[04:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00090444 = 3.1655 BTC [+]	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	i don't trust auto-anything.	[04:10]
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mircea_popescu	holy shit, dogecoin is an actual thing ?	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	i thought we were kidding around	[04:12]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: No, It's a scrypt altcoin, roughly 100 billion coins if I counted the zeros right glancing at it.	[04:13]
nubbins`	such faucet, for real	[04:13]
benkay	it gets better	[04:17]
benkay	random block rewards	[04:17]
BingoBoingo	DogeCOin, SO thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.0	[04:17]
diametric	its a hilarious satirical coin	[04:17]
jurov	and someone is actually pumping it	[04:18]
benkay	to the doge	[04:18]
jurov	wow	[04:18]
benkay	so pump	[04:19]
nubbins`	"what is with the digger built into the QT. I never got it running, always said no dig such fail."	[04:19]
nubbins`	heheh	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	actually block rewards equal to say the 5th digit of the nonce are an interesting idea	[04:19]
pankkake	stupider coins have been created	[04:20]
pankkake	coins made to be bad got traded	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	basically, the longer a block interval, the lower the reward	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	gives the coin an incentive to spontaneously die	[04:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00090444 = 10.2654 BTC [+]	[04:33]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00295017 = 1.4751 BTC [+] {6}	[04:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9847 @ 0.00090366 = 8.8983 BTC [-]	[04:42]
fiat500	https://github.com/dogecoin/dogecoin/commits/master	[04:43]
fiat500	l.o.l	[04:43]
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pankkake	haha nice. even the username is funny	[04:45]
diametric	they changed all the buttons too	[04:51]
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benkay	doge forever	[04:52]
benkay	https://coinedup.com/OrderBook?market=DOGE&base=BTC	[04:55]
ozbot	Coined Up - The FREE Crypto-Only Currency Exchange	[04:56]
benkay	2 satoshi spread	[04:56]
frb	a coin whose only redeeming feature is that it is named after an internet meme	[04:56]
frb	what could go wrong?	[04:57]
benkay	many noob	[04:57]
fiat500	http://dogechain.info/	[04:58]
ozbot	Dogecoin	[04:58]
fiat500	they went all out	[04:58]
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benkay	i think it's a stunt to drive business for http://www.designinghypermediaapis.com/ butttttt i may be wrong	[04:59]
the20year1	Is it possible to tie a new altcoin to btc addresses?	[04:59]
the20year1	It'd be pretty cool to spawn off an altcoin backed by real estate through our bitcoin realestate business, but i don't know of any viable way to do it	[05:00]
BingoBoingo	benkay: That has to be the saddest site on the internet	[05:00]
benkay	not as bad as ur moms	[05:01]
benkay	or mpex	[05:01]
fiat500	im digging for doge now	[05:02]
BingoBoingo	benkay: There is a distinct difference between badness and sadness as a question of being different kinds of properties.	[05:02]
fiat500	very moon	[05:02]
benkay	BingoBoingo: i don't know that i buy asciilifeform's ball-o-mud argument on urbit yet. given enough traction wouldn't it make sense to rewrite the important bits for fpgas or what have we?	[05:04]
benkay	granted i don't know anything about anything, and there's the whole keyboard and display thing to deal with	[05:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3050 @ 0.00090366 = 2.7562 BTC [-]	[05:07]
BingoBoingo	benkay: Well You can spec a Turing complete language on a napkin in the bar. What takes time is building an implementation that runs on something. For most applications now, the various nix's are going to be the best things available. If you want to write a new future of computing though instead of inventing Urbit someone could have just as well made a nix that only offered as a Userland GNU Guile. It seems to me the Closest thi	[05:09]
BingoBoingo	ng to Urbit and the thing that highlights its futility is Clojure.	[05:09]
the20year1	Anyone have an answer to my question?	[05:09]
benkay	the20year1: what on earth do you mean by 'tie a new altcoin to btc addresses'?	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	http://www.harlanellison.com/heboard/ihnm/code/hypertxt.htm	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	this is a sadder site	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	than anything	[05:10]
nubbins`	BingoBoingo: game?	[05:10]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Why not, give me some time to set up the board	[05:11]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Bootstrap could make it sadder.	[05:11]
nubbins`	great, we'll get gribble to flip	[05:11]
BingoBoingo	Cool	[05:11]
BingoBoingo	I'll take tails since you know the flippage	[05:12]
nubbins`	;;flip	[05:12]
gribble	Error: "flip" is not a valid command.	[05:12]
nubbins`	i mean, uh!	[05:12]
nubbins`	;;coin	[05:12]
gribble	tails	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	;;coin	[05:12]
gribble	heads	[05:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00090444 = 8.2304 BTC [+]	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	gribs gives me such heads.	[05:13]
nubbins`	many flip, so dispute resolution	[05:13]
benkay	BingoBoingo: babes have arrived, i'll grill ya later	[05:14]
pankkake	what year was the worst thing that happened to the U.S. dollar?	[05:15]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Which flip are we using?	[05:15]
BingoBoingo	pankkake: 1934	[05:15]
nubbins`	BingoBoingo: you can go ahead	[05:15]
pankkake	thanks	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	nah, the war.	[05:15]
nubbins`	we'll use mine	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	dollar split, the north was like, 1:2	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	the south like 1:5	[05:15]
nubbins`	i can recall trading cad:usd at like 1.4:1 before going on vacation as a kid	[05:16]
asciilifeform	benkay: happy to answe that one.	[05:16]
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BingoBoingo	nubbins`: I'll start with 1. d4 then	[05:17]
nubbins`	d5	[05:17]
asciilifeform	urbit (or any other graph-reduction machine with 'immutable data') is exquisitely unsuited to hardware. at least in this universe.	[05:17]
BingoBoingo	c4	[05:17]
nubbins`	e5	[05:18]
benkay	asciilifeform: why is that? do forgive my complete ignorance of the domain...	[05:18]
asciilifeform	the whole 'immutability' thing is an outcome of a decades-long acid trip by 'mathematical cs' wankers	[05:18]
BingoBoingo	dxe5	[05:18]
mircea_popescu	lol	[05:18]
nubbins`	d4	[05:19]
asciilifeform	they have this notion that if you constrain the system in various odd and quite unpleasant ways, you will then be able to mathematically prove useful facts about it.	[05:19]
asciilifeform	but 'you can't transition from the informal to the formal by formal means'	[05:19]
asciilifeform	the proof doesn't tell you anything about your priors being valid	[05:19]
BingoBoingo	e3	[05:19]
asciilifeform	and reality has a nasty habit of violating your priors. because a physical machine is not a mathematical object.	[05:20]
asciilifeform	'spherical horse.'	[05:20]
nubbins`	c6	[05:20]
*	randomcloud (~randomclo@unaffiliated/randomcloud) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:20]
randomcloud	Something-something you can play chess here?	[05:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.0009032 = 18.8317 BTC [-] {4}	[05:21]
BingoBoingo	Nf3	[05:21]
nubbins`	randomcloud: after a fashion	[05:21]
nubbins`	Bf4+	[05:21]
nubbins`	sorry	[05:22]
nubbins`	Bb4+	[05:22]
BingoBoingo	Bd2	[05:23]
asciilifeform	author of urbit wrote some pretty good screeds on why he quit academic cs: (http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/07/my-navrozov-moments.html and http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/whats-wrong-with-cs-research.html) and then proceeded to... well, do what he did.	[05:23]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@173.180.1.169) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:24]
nubbins`	Qe7	[05:24]
BingoBoingo	BxB	[05:25]
nubbins`	Nxb4	[05:25]
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BingoBoingo	nubbins`: You have a Knight facing b4?	[05:26]
nubbins`	should be one on c6	[05:26]
BingoBoingo	Ah.	[05:26]
nubbins`	just after "Spherical horse"	[05:26]
nubbins`	we can rewind if you like	[05:27]
BingoBoingo	Nxd4	[05:27]
nubbins`	Nh6	[05:28]
benkay	asciilifeform: doesn't immutability also help averagely-talented software teams operate in highly threaded environments?	[05:29]
nubbins`	asciilifeform: quitting something and giving it up are two different things, i guess ;D	[05:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00090275 = 2.5277 BTC [-]	[05:30]
asciilifeform	not only that, but it helps to feed memory and disk manufacturers' children!	[05:30]
asciilifeform	job creation!	[05:30]
asciilifeform	and so on.	[05:30]
BingoBoingo	Be2	[05:30]
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nubbins`	Bg4	[05:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00090196 = 6.2235 BTC [-]	[05:31]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@173.180.1.169) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:31]
BingoBoingo	BxB	[05:32]
benkay	asciilifeform: doesn't shitty code that gets hardware deployed against its performance problems carry more responsibility for that?	[05:33]
nubbins`	Nxg4	[05:33]
asciilifeform	benkay: if 'nothing ever actually gets deleted' isn't shitty, i don't know what it.	[05:33]
BingoBoingo	Qxg4	[05:34]
asciilifeform	decreeing that buildings shall have water pipes but no drains would make the lives of construction crews easier, but for some odd reason isn't a popular idea.	[05:34]
nubbins`	0-0	[05:34]
BingoBoingo	Nf5	[05:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00090444 = 6.5572 BTC [+]	[05:35]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[05:36]
nubbins`	Nc2	[05:37]
nubbins`	+	[05:37]
benkay	ah so you object to urbit's low-level immutability	[05:38]
BingoBoingo	Ke2	[05:38]
asciilifeform	that was simply an answer to the question 'if it catches on, won't someone slip appropriate silicon under it.'	[05:38]
nubbins`	Re8	[05:39]
BingoBoingo	Qxg7++	[05:39]
nubbins`	ah hahaha. gg.	[05:39]
BingoBoingo	gg	[05:39]
BingoBoingo	I have to say e5 was ballsy	[05:40]
nubbins`	thought i'd try stirring up the pot early	[05:40]
nubbins`	really it was that whole bishop/knight/queen trade that did me in, i think	[05:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00090444 = 6.2406 BTC [+]	[05:41]
nubbins`	i'd play again if you're up for it	[05:41]
BingoBoingo	Sure Do you want me to flip this time?	[05:42]
nubbins`	yeah, go ahead. i'll call heads	[05:42]
BingoBoingo	;;coin	[05:43]
gribble	heads	[05:43]
nubbins`	1. e4	[05:43]
BingoBoingo	d6	[05:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 120 @ 0.001 = 0.12 BTC	[05:44]
nubbins`	Nc3	[05:45]
BingoBoingo	Nf6	[05:46]
nubbins`	Nf3	[05:46]
BingoBoingo	g6	[05:47]
nubbins`	d3	[05:47]
BingoBoingo	Bg7	[05:47]
nubbins`	e5	[05:49]
BingoBoingo	dxe5	[05:50]
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mircea_popescu	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-15/jpmorgans-bitcoin-alternative-patent-rejected-175-times	[05:51]
ozbot	JPMorgan's "Bitcoin-Alternative" Patent Rejected (175 Times) \| Zero Hedge	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	herp	[05:51]
benkay	is this the layer on top of the credit card processing system thing?	[05:52]
nubbins`	d3	[05:52]
nubbins`	sorry, d4	[05:52]
BingoBoingo	exd4	[05:53]
nubbins`	Nxd4	[05:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00090196 = 4.2392 BTC [-]	[05:54]
BingoBoingo	0-0	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	ya	[05:55]
nubbins`	f3	[05:55]
BingoBoingo	Nf6	[05:56]
nubbins`	i think you already have N on f6	[05:56]
nubbins`	yeah, just after 2nd last assbot	[05:56]
BingoBoingo	AH, Nc6	[05:56]
BingoBoingo	Sorry, I'm running low on VOdka	[05:57]
nubbins`	Be3	[05:57]
truffles	chatroom chess?	[05:57]
nubbins`	they have this vodka that comes in a glass skull here	[05:57]
BingoBoingo	e5	[05:57]
nubbins`	truffles: bingo is 1-0	[05:58]
nubbins`	well i guess 3-0 all total at this point	[05:58]
truffles	so ure not so good	[05:58]
nubbins`	maybe more	[05:58]
nubbins`	no	[05:58]
BingoBoingo	For the night. Career I believe it is 4-0, someone else played a game at a point	[05:58]
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*	Diablo_D3 is now known as Diablo-D3	[05:59]
truffles	no Qf7 ?	[05:59]
BingoBoingo	I lose a bunch IRL though. And back when CoinChat was a thing I lost quite a few games there	[05:59]
nubbins`	Be2	[06:00]
BingoBoingo	exNd4	[06:01]
nubbins`	Qxd4	[06:02]
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BingoBoingo	Nc6xd4	[06:02]
nubbins`	Bxd4	[06:03]
BingoBoingo	Qxd4	[06:03]
nubbins`	0-0-0	[06:04]
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BingoBoingo	I don't know that Castling through check is legal...	[06:04]
nubbins`	hm, that's a good point	[06:04]
asciilifeform	afaik nope.	[06:04]
Apocalyptic	it's indeed not	[06:05]
nubbins`	aha, you're right	[06:05]
mircea_popescu	scam castle!	[06:05]
nubbins`	0-0	[06:06]
BingoBoingo	I believe that would be actively castling into check...	[06:06]
nubbins`	HAHA. thinking > drinking	[06:06]
nubbins`	third time's a charm?	[06:06]
BingoBoingo	About to pour another one soon.	[06:06]
BingoBoingo	Sure.	[06:06]
nubbins`	Nd1	[06:07]
BingoBoingo	Nd5	[06:08]
nubbins`	Rc1	[06:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00090196 = 4.5098 BTC [-]	[06:09]
BingoBoingo	Re8	[06:09]
nubbins`	g3	[06:10]
BingoBoingo	Bh6	[06:11]
nubbins`	Nf2	[06:12]
BingoBoingo	BxRc1	[06:14]
nubbins`	Ng4	[06:15]
BingoBoingo	Qd1+	[06:16]
nubbins`	Kxd1	[06:16]
BingoBoingo	Bxb2	[06:18]
nubbins`	Nh6+	[06:18]
BingoBoingo	Kg7	[06:19]
nubbins`	h4	[06:20]
BingoBoingo	Kxh6	[06:20]
nubbins`	g4	[06:21]
BingoBoingo	Ne3+	[06:22]
nubbins`	Ke1	[06:24]
BingoBoingo	Nxg4	[06:25]
nubbins`	xg4	[06:26]
BingoBoingo	Bxg4	[06:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00090444 = 4.7031 BTC [+]	[06:27]
nubbins`	Nc4	[06:28]
nubbins`	sorry	[06:28]
nubbins`	Bc4	[06:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00090469 = 18.4104 BTC [+] {2}	[06:29]
nubbins`	wait, no	[06:29]
nubbins`	D;	[06:29]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Pretty sure moving that Bishop opens you to check...	[06:29]
asciilifeform	re: urbit: anyone curious about my answer to the quandary 'so, how the hell /should/ we build a computer' is invited to read:	[06:29]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1361	[06:29]
ozbot	Loper OS » The Alert Reader.	[06:29]
nubbins`	Rh2.	[06:29]
BingoBoingo	RxB+	[06:30]
nubbins`	Rxe2	[06:30]
BingoBoingo	BxR	[06:31]
nubbins`	Kxe2	[06:31]
nubbins`	ha ha, now it's a game	[06:31]
BingoBoingo	Kh5	[06:31]
nubbins`	Kd3	[06:32]
BingoBoingo	f5	[06:32]
*	sundun_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[06:33]
nubbins`	Ke3	[06:33]
BingoBoingo	Kg4	[06:34]
nubbins`	c4	[06:34]
BingoBoingo	Re8	[06:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00090551 = 14.7145 BTC [+] {2}	[06:35]
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BingoBoingo	+	[06:35]
nubbins`	Kd4	[06:35]
BingoBoingo	Bishop...	[06:35]
nubbins`	Kd2	[06:36]
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nubbins`	sloppy	[06:36]
BingoBoingo	f4	[06:36]
BingoBoingo	It happens	[06:36]
nubbins`	c5	[06:36]
BingoBoingo	f3	[06:37]
nubbins`	Ke1	[06:38]
nubbins`	nope	[06:38]
nubbins`	lel	[06:38]
nubbins`	Kc2	[06:38]
BingoBoingo	f2	[06:39]
nubbins`	Kxb2	[06:39]
kakobrekla	nubbins` sank my boat :(	[06:39]
nubbins`	beep bloop!	[06:39]
BingoBoingo	Re3	[06:39]
nubbins`	you got me, gg	[06:40]
BingoBoingo	gg	[06:40]
BingoBoingo	I completely forgot the King could take pieces when I went Qd1	[06:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00090113 = 37.7573 BTC [-] {4}	[06:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.24075319 = 3.8521 BTC [+] {5}	[06:45]
nubbins`	yeah, i'm officially done with chess for the night	[06:45]
nubbins`	can't even keep it straight	[06:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC	[06:50]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.24946149 = 6.486 BTC [+] {5}	[07:02]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 100 @ 0.05 = 5 BTC	[07:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.24999998 = 2 BTC [+] {2}	[07:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.25 = 1 BTC [+]	[07:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4435 @ 0.00089935 = 3.9886 BTC [-]	[07:32]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.25 = 1.25 BTC [+]	[07:40]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[15:01]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading	[15:01]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013	[15:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9351 @ 0.00089476 = 8.3669 BTC [-]	[15:03]
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mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic lol so what was that all about ?	[15:06]
Apocalyptic	i call him out, he's our usual scammer in -otc	[15:06]
Apocalyptic	so he got pissed	[15:06]
Apocalyptic	and started creating fake accounts to negrate me	[15:07]
Apocalyptic	& other ops	[15:07]
gribble	Error: "other" is not a valid command.	[15:07]
truffles	lol at that	[15:07]
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truffles	at the gibble thing..	[15:08]
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lyspooner	what is min size for x.eur	[15:11]
lyspooner	and do i understand the specifications correctly that davout will be responsible for defining delivery details?	[15:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4055 @ 0.00089476 = 3.6283 BTC [-]	[15:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15512 @ 0.00089469 = 13.8784 BTC [-]	[15:19]
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mircea_popescu	lyspooner what do you mean min size ? you can get 1	[15:21]
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jurov	he prolly means the lot	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic you getting a lot of that in -otc these days huh ? i see Azelphur negging people, that's a rarity.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	1 x.eur = 1 eur	[15:22]
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mircea_popescu	and do i understand the specifications correctly that davout will be responsible for defining delivery details? << within reason and in advance.	[15:22]
lyspooner	so i buy 1 x.eur, hold it to expiration, and then davout gives me 1 eur	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	yea	[15:23]
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jurov	and MKFUT does work on x.eur with 1.8 EUR collateral equivalent?	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	at expiration you can either take 1 euro in cash if you go through the delivery process or have it rolled to next month's x.eur	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	jurov no.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	but you can contact davout, and deliver euros to him on bc, which arrangement he may accept	[15:24]
lyspooner	i could bankrupt davout by buying several instances of 1 euro from davout, holding them to expiration and having him wire me 1 eur at as many bank accounts as i have contracts	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	this obviously being a mm feature, don't expect it to happen for 7.8 eur or some bs	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	lyspooner afaik there's a 5 eur charge per delivery.	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	go ahead	[15:24]
jurov	right	[15:24]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, the phys delivery is mostly there to keep things honest. unlike all the bucket shops running a soft-settled only "future"	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	which obviously is not a future.	[15:26]
lyspooner	because delivery specifications are made by a single-market maker, this contract will always guaranteed to have a single seller?	[15:26]
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mircea_popescu	no such guarantee is made.	[15:26]
lyspooner	but davout is responsible for his delivery specs, which might differ from, say, mine	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[15:26]
lyspooner	how will a buyer know whome he is facing ?	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	(see teh email you just got)	[15:26]
lyspooner	ah ok sec	[15:26]
jurov	we'll have to wait for official announcement with the specs.. or was it done already?	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	jurov click all the links!	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	Monthly settlement details available here : http://xeur.bitcoin-central.net/	[15:27]
jurov	i see	[15:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14475 @ 0.00089656 = 12.9777 BTC [+] {3}	[15:28]
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lyspooner	so mpex will not take responsibility for davout or anyone else's failure to deliver?	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	yeah, because they deposit to mm.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	(c) The Market Maker will make a deposit of BTC with the Exchange, on the basis of which the Exchange will create a number of X.EUR contracts in the Market Maker's account, by the criterion of the weighted spot price rounded to the lowest 10.	[15:31]
lyspooner	so if you choose 5 market makers for the product, each with their own delivery specification, the buyer of the contract faces all of the different mm's	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	and	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	(a) The Market Maker will immediately notify the Exchange should observance of the terms of this contract become impossible for the future. Should such notification be received, the Exchange will distribute the Market Maker's deposit to contract holders, in proportion of the number of contracts they hold but not in excess of the implied spot value rounded to the lowest 10. This distribution will constitute the sole rem	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	edy for contract holders from the part of the Exchange.	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	lyspooner that is one way to run it. there's no guarantee it'll be the way it's run.	[15:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC	[15:34]
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lyspooner	so if i buy 1000 contracts at .0015 and the future expires at 10,000,000 eur on the final settlement day, and the short can't give me 10 billion euros, what do i get?	[15:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 65 @ 0.00298 = 0.1937 BTC [+]	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	1000 contracts = 1000 euros	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	how can't he not give you 1000 euros ?	[15:35]
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lyspooner	ah ok, i've been look at icbit too long	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	it rots the brain.	[15:35]
lyspooner	indeed	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	we do things right for a reason.	[15:35]
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lyspooner	there's still something gross about the delivery specs being different from mm to mm	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	no there isn't. you've been looking at eurodollars too long.	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	embrace free market.	[15:36]
lyspooner	imagine i buy 100 contracts while there is a single market-maker, davout, because i am comfortable with his terms of delivery	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the mm deposit could have been in either of the pair, but btc seems safer.	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	admittedly there could still exist an edge case where the mm splits and the holders book a loss	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	but it seems really edgy.	[15:37]
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mircea_popescu	lyspooner certainly all changes are announced before the contract trades. this is sacred.	[15:38]
lyspooner	you couldn't allow a second market-maker	[15:38]
lyspooner	mid-trading	[15:38]
lyspooner	in the case where the mm splits or dies or forgets everything or worse, then the longs eat the crap	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	well suppose the mm gets 1mn contracts, by depositing 1560 btc.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	he sells those, and then runs off	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	people get 0.00156 btc per held contract.	[15:40]
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mircea_popescu	that COULD be worthless, obviously. and it'll have to be accounted for.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	still, on one hand it's a much better liquidation event than either the best or the most recent non-mpex liquidation event, on one hand	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	and it's practically better than the alternative (hold 1mn euros which also COULD be worthless)	[15:41]
lyspooner	he would sell 1mn contracts, and in the case that bitcoins were worth less than 1 eur and he didn't hedge himself, he would owe 1mn EUR. he would run off and people would get near worthless bitcoins	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	it's a possibility.	[15:44]
lyspooner	make him post euros to you	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	of course, what he says is that he's not going directional, and it makes sense for him not to, if he knows his business,	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	and moreover he has the means to go delta neutral as he has ready access to a spot market.	[15:45]
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mircea_popescu	lyspooner what, instead of btc ? that's nonsense.	[15:45]
lyspooner	nonsense in what way? it prevents the situation i just described	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	it creates the equivalent.	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	i tell you euro will turn worthless in the next ten years a degree of magnitude more often than btc will	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	at the very leasty.	[15:46]
lyspooner	shorts post euros, longs post bitcoins	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	i'm not a fucking exchange. i gotta pick one.	[15:47]
lyspooner	the good exchange will pick that format	[15:47]
lyspooner	until then you have recreated icbit's downside problems	[15:47]
lyspooner	with slightly better management	[15:47]
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lyspooner	and less (?) default risk	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	nah.	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	looky, economy is built on trust and people doing their job. it's not really built on "making it impossible" for people to default.	[15:48]
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mircea_popescu	making it obvious when someone defaults and making responsibility stick for defaults is good enough.	[15:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00090117 = 14.0583 BTC [+] {3}	[15:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 104 @ 0.00238994 = 0.2486 BTC [-] {2}	[15:53]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 196 @ 0.00239751 = 0.4699 BTC [+] {3}	[15:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.25275 = 0.5055 BTC [+] {2}	[15:54]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2500 @ 0.00284938 = 7.1235 BTC [-] {11}	[15:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.251 BTC [-]	[15:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24716 @ 0.00090256 = 22.3077 BTC [+] {3}	[16:01]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.05 = 1.5 BTC {2}	[16:04]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9043 @ 0.00090334 = 8.1689 BTC [+] {3}	[16:15]
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mircea_popescu	;;bcstats	[16:16]
gribble	Current Blocks: 275236 \| Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 \| Next Difficulty In: 955 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 54 minutes, and 53 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 1116079088.26 \| Estimated Percent Change: 22.86872	[16:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14773 @ 0.00090383 = 13.3523 BTC [+] {2}	[16:16]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.001 = 0.5 BTC	[16:23]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.25 = 0.5 BTC [-]	[16:37]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.05 = 1.25 BTC	[16:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00090354 = 11.0232 BTC [-]	[16:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG.F2] 1 @ 0.50000001 BTC [+]	[16:43]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00089975 = 11.0219 BTC [-]	[16:53]
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ThickAsThieves	;;estimate	[16:58]
gribble	Next difficulty estimate \| 1115862283.67 based on data since last change \| 1184576457.35 based on data for last three days	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	the dream is over	[16:58]
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pankkake	:(	[17:00]
ThickAsThieves	only gavin can save me now	[17:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00089951 = 4.4976 BTC [-] {2}	[17:03]
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jurov	TAT you made out on idiffs like a pig, don't cry now :D	[17:04]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[17:04]
ThickAsThieves	actually the amount lost here is probly very close to amount gained on idiffs	[17:05]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[17:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading	[17:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013	[17:15]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 301 @ 0.002845 = 0.8563 BTC [-] {4}	[17:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 415 @ 0.00279697 = 1.1607 BTC [-] {5}	[17:25]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.00265123 = 0.1299 BTC [-] {4}	[17:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00089803 = 2.9635 BTC [-]	[17:32]
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azoo_	https://twitter.com/Heineken/status/412582896038580224/photo/1	[17:39]
ozbot	Twitter / Heineken: Our vision of the future? Drink ...	[17:39]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.255 BTC [+]	[18:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.04199999 = 0.42 BTC [+] {2}	[18:10]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.25 = 1.25 BTC [-] {4}	[18:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00090163 = 22.2703 BTC [+] {4}	[18:20]
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taub_	hehe surprise guys let me raise the fees on my super active traedign platform to 0.3%	[18:23]
taub_	without giving you any warning	[18:23]
taub_	because i'm chinese	[18:24]
taub_	fucking btcchina	[18:24]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC	[18:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.0008986 = 5.167 BTC [-]	[18:42]
jcpham	;;seen mircea_popescu	[18:42]
gribble	mircea_popescu was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 26 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: ;;bcstats	[18:42]
ThickAsThieves	already like 2PH added since last diffchange yeesh	[18:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00089803 = 0.898 BTC [-]	[18:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00089791 = 14.3666 BTC [-] {2}	[19:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2291 @ 0.00089806 = 2.0575 BTC [+]	[19:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [COG] 3 @ 0.042 = 0.126 BTC [+]	[19:05]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 473 @ 0.05 = 23.65 BTC	[19:09]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02489999 = 0.2988 BTC [+] {2}	[19:11]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3359 @ 0.00090108 = 3.0267 BTC [+]	[19:27]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[19:35]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading	[19:35]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013	[19:35]
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mircea_popescu	taub_ better than 1% or w/e mtgox was doing	[19:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13893 @ 0.00090047 = 12.5102 BTC [-]	[19:50]
mike_c	coinbase is 1% too, although they aren't really an exchange.	[19:50]
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gesell	whats the reason for the current crash?	[20:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5132 @ 0.00009079 = 0.4659 BTC [+] {4}	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	it's its party and it can crash if it wants to ?	[20:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 14654 @ 0.0000871 = 1.2764 BTC [-] {5}	[20:05]
jcpham	you would crash too if it happened to you	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	Estimated 1002357574 in 1167 blks	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	;;bcstats	[20:06]
gribble	Current Blocks: 275265 \| Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 \| Next Difficulty In: 926 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes, and 21 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 1115703052.32 \| Estimated Percent Change: 22.82732	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	lol bitcoincharts is a little behind the blox	[20:06]
pankkake	depends on how you compute it	[20:06]
pankkake	it's 1002 if nothing gets added	[20:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10231 @ 0.00090013 = 9.2092 BTC [-] {2}	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	is it ?	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	i thought it'd be ~1050 even so	[20:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.000896 = 5.2864 BTC [-]	[20:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0499 = 0.499 BTC [-]	[20:11]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.00089763 = 4.4433 BTC [+]	[20:14]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.001 = 0.5 BTC	[20:18]
diametric	seems like the market is in full panic sell mode right now.	[20:18]
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mike_c	buffet says this is a good time to be greedy	[20:20]
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pankkake	is there a non-panic mode in bitcoin?	[20:22]
diametric	ahh also btc china has enacted a trading fee now	[20:22]
Duffer1	btcchina not allowing fiat withdraw (rumor)	[20:27]
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mike_c	well, its posted on their site that they are requiring identification now	[20:29]
pankkake	well then it shouldn't crash at all	[20:29]
mike_c	heh, right. the gox effect.	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	aw shucks, not a billionaire again ?	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	btc y u so break my haert	[20:33]
mike_c	but now you get to enjoy the anticipation of being a billionaire again.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	financial sex.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	now you're in... now you're out. back in... back out...	[20:34]
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diametric	just the tip	[20:35]
pizzaman1337	anyway... when does X.EUR start trading?	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	was supposed to start today. i guess davout is having some tech trouble ?	[20:36]
asciilifeform	new from the seekoority circus! http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00002647.html	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	wow f-secure, what a blast from the past	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	all i recall is this dos-age splash screen	[20:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1150 @ 0.00089763 = 1.0323 BTC [+]	[20:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 128 @ 0.00241498 = 0.3091 BTC [+]	[20:46]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00241609 = 0.4832 BTC [+] {3}	[20:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.251 = 0.502 BTC [+]	[20:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00089763 = 13.8235 BTC [+]	[21:13]
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benkay	asciilifeform: i dreamt about a dataflow soup (using biocomputing elements) last night and then read your Alert Reader post this morning.	[21:18]
benkay	odd synchrony.	[21:18]
asciilifeform	haha	[21:18]
benkay	first i'd ever encountered the notion of dataflow stuff	[21:18]
benkay	i'm a near total neophyte to the execution of code and the things upon which they execute, so your grumpy old man attitude is fascinating to keep in mind while coming up to speed on the rest of the stack.	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	especially if you also keep in mind his age.	[21:20]
asciilifeform	phun phact: i've had people write to me: 'fscking keep over already, geezer'.	[21:21]
asciilifeform	*keel	[21:21]
asciilifeform	'can't build our shiny new world with yer kind around'	[21:21]
asciilifeform	that fan mail was in '09.	[21:22]
asciilifeform	i turned 30 2 wks ago...	[21:22]
benkay	your prose does have the vitriol of not-totally-bleached youth ;)	[21:22]
kakobreklaa	fun fact, clark moody refused to advertise my service cause it was suspeicious of it being scammy. he does have a mcxnow banner on site, still.	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	herp.	[21:22]
mike_c	tell him your code is C++, and therefore can't be a scam.	[21:23]
jcpham	mircea_popescu facedesk	[21:23]
Duffer1	hehe	[21:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0008976 = 5.3856 BTC [-]	[21:23]
jcpham	mcxnow scam all day	[21:23]
KRS\|Gotyawallet	+1	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	what are we voting on ?	[21:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 13 @ 0.07062697 = 0.9182 BTC [-] {8}	[21:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2836 @ 0.000896 = 2.5411 BTC [-]	[21:25]
benkay	no doge on mcxnow	[21:26]
benkay	scam	[21:26]
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dub	;;ud sharking	[21:33]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sharking \| To pull a girl's panties down in public, usually when she's wearing a short skirt. Very popular in Japan.	[21:33]
FabianB_	http://www.coindesk.com/china-bans-payment-companies-working-bitcoin-exchanges-sources-claim/ <-- has this been discussed already? am not through the backlog yet	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	FabianB_ in passing. not rly.	[21:33]
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mircea_popescu	seems the usual overreaction. no such thing happened as far as anyone knows	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	but idiots love being overzealously silly.	[21:34]
Duffer1	couple of reddit rumor threads so far, that's all i've been able to find	[21:34]
FabianB_	they love loosing money by panicking it seems	[21:34]
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FabianB_	the only third party 'payment provider' they mention in the article is Tenpay	[21:38]
FabianB_	didn't know any of them had anything directly to do with bitcoin	[21:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22213 @ 0.00089553 = 19.8924 BTC [-] {4}	[21:41]
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ThickAsThieves	they pulled similar shit with tencent rumors in the past	[21:46]
ThickAsThieves	like QQ would use btc or somthing	[21:46]
azoo	what about the just recent news about china banning withdrawals btc to fiat?	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	log's your friend	[21:50]
Duffer1	;;ident lino	[21:51]
gribble	Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.	[21:51]
Duffer1	wtf..	[21:51]
dub	;;gpg info lino	[21:54]
gribble	No such user registered.	[21:54]
Duffer1	ya i was lookin in wrong chan >.<	[21:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.0008976 = 4.9817 BTC [+]	[21:58]
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FabianB_	http://bitbet.us/bet/611/bitcoin-value-will-drop-back-to-450-or/ <-- hehe, if they panick to that level	[22:02]
ozbot	BitBet - Bitcoin value will drop back to $450 or below before Christmas	[22:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.0008976 = 5.61 BTC [+] {2}	[22:02]
ThickAsThieves	panic abounds!	[22:02]
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jurov	$avg	[22:04]
mpexbot	jurov: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.	[22:04]
jurov	;;ticker --average	[22:05]
gribble	(ticker [--bid\|--ask\|--last\|--high\|--low\|--avg\|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market \|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Mtgox. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is (1 more message)	[22:05]
jurov	;;ticker --avg	[22:05]
gribble	816.33325	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	no love for jurov	[22:05]
jurov	.bait	[22:05]
ozbot	http://25.media.tumblr.com/4678fc7e2df00bd8dc4781e0ed288afc/tumblr_mp6aio31LD1s9olebo1_500.jpg	[22:05]
jurov	lol	[22:05]
pankkake	ozbot is being a smart ass	[22:06]
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ThickAsThieves	ha!	[22:08]
sois	TAT, Did Friedcat respond on what the issue is with the direct transfer shares from last week?	[22:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.000094 = 0.282 BTC [+]	[22:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.00089763 = 12.0282 BTC [+]	[22:11]
the20year2	jurov: the prevailing theory is that the heart shape is specifically that	[22:12]
ThickAsThieves	sois, no he has not	[22:12]
ThickAsThieves	seem i can only get his attention once each week	[22:12]
ThickAsThieves	seems*	[22:12]
sois	Okay, guess nothing we can do but wait till next dividend or his response	[22:12]
sois	:-	[22:12]
ThickAsThieves	i suspect he'll just fix it and not say anything...	[22:12]
ThickAsThieves	either way i'll square up any divs	[22:13]
sois	ok, sounds good	[22:13]
sois	i sent him a proposal that would automate the process, i'm guessing he is just using excel and manually doing it which must be a hassle	[22:14]
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jurov	o looky, http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.EUR&r=1 is on	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	what's r=1 do	[22:16]
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mircea_popescu	oh.	[22:16]
jurov	i'll add it on coinbr, but it needs scary warning you need b-c account to settle it	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	$depth x.eur	[22:16]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: X.EUR Bids: ['2000 @ 0.0016129', '100 @ 0.00153846', '350 @ 0.00147']	[22:16]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: Asks: ['2000 @ 0.00227272']	[22:16]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/16/5216862/bitcoin-is-so-2013-dogecoin-is-new-crypto-currency-on-the-block	[22:16]
ozbot	Bitcoin is so 2013: Dogecoin is new crypto currency on the block \| The Verge	[22:16]
ThickAsThieves	wtf	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	jurov well you don't HAVE to settle, you can just sell it back later	[22:17]
the20year2	wow, petamine already has 3437 btc	[22:17]
Duffer1	.........................	[22:17]
Duffer1	more than they'll ever actually mine	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 1/0.0016129	[22:17]
gribble	620.001240002	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 1/0.00227272	[22:17]
gribble	440.001408005	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	$depth O.USD.C110T	[22:18]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: O.USD.C110T Bids: ['1000 @ 1e-08', '1000 @ 1e-08']	[22:18]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: Asks: ['1000 @ 0.00627926', '1000 @ 0.00627947', '5 @ 0.025']	[22:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6559 @ 0.00089573 = 5.8751 BTC [-]	[22:18]
the20year2	i'm sure	[22:19]
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mircea_popescu	;;calc 0.00627926 * 110 + 110	[22:19]
gribble	110.6907186	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	uh no	[22:20]
jurov	;;bc,convert eur	[22:20]
gribble	1 BTC = 749.9 USD = 544.80235 eur	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	$depth O.USD.C065T	[22:20]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: O.USD.C065T Bids: ['1000 @ 0.01591501', '1000 @ 0.01591501']	[22:20]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: Asks: ['1000 @ 0.02752279', '1000 @ 0.02752286']	[22:20]
*	virtualsp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 0.01591501 / 0.02752279 - 0.0016129 / 0.00227272	[22:21]
gribble	-0.131429844848	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	whadda ya know. option spreads are narrow.	[22:21]
davout	ohai	[22:22]
davout	such future contract	[22:22]
davout	much spread	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	much spread	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	lol	[22:22]
jurov	wow	[22:22]
davout	wow	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	owo	[22:22]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4370 @ 0.00089622 = 3.9165 BTC [+] {2}	[22:23]
kakobreklaa	much spread	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	small amount of late, kako :D	[22:24]
davout	large amount of 'a'	[22:24]
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kakobreklaa	large amount of lag to somaila	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	such internweb.	[22:24]
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mircea_popescu	Duffer1 the20year2 have 3.5k according tp what/who ?	[22:26]
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the20year2	?	[22:26]
the20year2	according to havelock's chart	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	http://www.cryptx.com/peta-mine/ < this thing ?	[22:27]
ozbot	PETA-MINE \| CryptX	[22:27]
*	azoo is now known as azi`	[22:27]
Duffer1	wow they really have raised 3400 btc	[22:29]
Duffer1	https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=PETA	[22:29]
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ThickAsThieves	hard to know	[22:30]
ThickAsThieves	even harder to care	[22:30]
Duffer1	i can't imagine that will ever rio	[22:30]
Duffer1	roi	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	"CryptX has a contract with Cointerra"	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	where's the cxontract	[22:30]
the20year2	course not	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	these people never heard of signatures etc ?	[22:30]
the20year2	And it's a sweet deal for the mining company......the cost to provide those GH goes down every day	[22:31]
the20year2	I always laugh at how these companies are set up, i've gone overboard with mine, and no one cares	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	anyway, pmb version 50. why even.	[22:31]
Duffer1	worse than a pmb	[22:32]
Duffer1	only 65% equity on offer	[22:32]
Duffer1	those assholes have gone overboard with that one	[22:32]
the20year2	they retain 65% or selling 65?	[22:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00090107 = 17.8412 BTC [+] {2}	[22:32]
Duffer1	they retain 35% of divs because..	[22:33]
the20year2	If you were the issuer , why not? Investors typically don't read the T &C , and if they do, few understand it	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	the20year2 and then you list the crap and get called a scam and don't understand why.	[22:33]
the20year2	I retain 35% of my divs too, but then I ponied up $30k+ into the fund :D	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	who was asking me earlier ?	[22:33]
the20year2	Who cares if they get called a scam? They've already pocketed 2.8m in investments	[22:33]
the20year2	makes me wish i'd of asked for 5k bitcoins instead of the 700	[22:34]
Duffer1	what's your project the20?	[22:34]
the20year2	buying income producing real estate with bitcoins	[22:34]
Duffer1	oohh right	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	stealing 2.8mn from idiots does not make the stolen funds investments.	[22:34]
the20year2	is it theft if they willingly hand it over?	[22:35]
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Duffer1	fleecing the ignorant is little better than theft imo	[22:35]
ThickAsThieves	...	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	it's not a business.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	whatever it is.	[22:35]
Vexual	courts oft call it theft	[22:36]
Duffer1	it's not intended to benefit the investor so i'd call that a scam, maybe not "theft"	[22:36]
ThickAsThieves	last i checked, taking candy from babies wasn't good for the rep	[22:36]
the20year2	Hopefully the end result will be smarter investors	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	it usually is.	[22:37]
ThickAsThieves	it's a tsunami of dumb tho	[22:37]
Duffer1	smarter, broke, investors hehe	[22:37]
ThickAsThieves	good luck	[22:37]
deadweasel	knowledge is valuable :)	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	;;genrate 240000000	[22:37]
gribble	The expected generation output, at 240000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 908350862.437, is 132.875487804 BTC per day and 5.5364786585 BTC per hour.	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	did i get the 0s right ?	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	240 th they say they're deploying, selling the lot for 50k btc.	[22:38]
ThickAsThieves	;;nethash	[22:38]
gribble	8658640.6558	[22:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11330 @ 0.00089857 = 10.1808 BTC [-]	[22:39]
the20year2	how long to set up the 240th?	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	will hit even in 300 days of constant difficulty. also known as never.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	the20year2 two weeks from january.	[22:39]
the20year2	nice	[22:39]
the20year2	I wonder what kind of facility they're in	[22:39]
the20year2	My brother's looking at local warehouses/factories to deploy in, and the cost for setup and time involved is immense	[22:39]
the20year2	It's not like you can just find a datacenter and say "hey let me put my stuff in there"	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	well savage family has some free space.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	Bitmine ever deliver anything so far ?	[22:40]
Duffer1	a bunch of spam mail to my inbox but that's about it	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	so basically this is a 25% actual rigs (from cointerra) and 75% vaporware.	[22:41]
Duffer1	no i'm not sure if they've actually shipped though	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	deal gets better and better.	[22:41]
the20year2	Nice	[22:41]
ThickAsThieves	sounds a lot like ActM	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	who's behind this ?	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	yeah, it does.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	and the mo is quite similar, too.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215431.0	[22:42]
ozbot	Official Avalon mining rig clones thread from bitmine.ch (NOW SHIPPING)	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	some guy, giorgiomassa	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	which is an italian name. making avalon clones.	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	now how does he do that ?	[22:42]
the20year2	coinlab money?	[22:43]
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ThickAsThieves	he used the ghosted Avalon chips	[22:44]
ThickAsThieves	uses*	[22:44]
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ThickAsThieves	(not srs)	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	is it this guy ? http://www.massarotto.com/	[22:44]
ThickAsThieves	dunno	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	ok so basically they mostly delivered an avalon clone on a 9 month schedule, and announced a 28nm process on a 3 month schedule late sept.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	so maybe they deliver, in the summer.	[22:46]
ThickAsThieves	like bfl monarchs	[22:46]
ThickAsThieves	i still have my email spam from them	[22:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00089815 = 3.413 BTC [-]	[22:47]
ThickAsThieves	promising xmas delivery	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	xmas delivery is a thing.	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	"Even with weights, allowing a diff bet to be open to bets till so close to the resolution date, enormously reduces the incentive to bet until it is an obvious call and thus limits the size of the bets to a few eager early beters plus roughly double the late skimmers. No money in between an thus smaller overall rollers."	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	does this guy have a point ?	[22:47]
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ThickAsThieves	yes	[22:48]
jurov	kinda yes	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	so then what dio you do, have all these bets you can't bet on ?	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	cause they closed last week and resolve in a month ?	[22:48]
ThickAsThieves	more curvy weight loss	[22:48]
jurov	no, all the bets i can bet, but have weight like 50k or 30k	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	jurov huh ?	[22:49]
kakobrekla	[21:49:25] more curvy weight loss	[22:49]
jurov	yes, updating the curve could help	[22:49]
kakobrekla	you need more fat for more cuvers you know	[22:49]
kakobrekla	curves	[22:49]
Vexual	.bait	[22:49]
ozbot	http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdhd6p65yj1qdxglyo1_1280.jpg	[22:49]
ThickAsThieves	you know what i mean tho?	[22:49]
ThickAsThieves	weight needs to drop off harder	[22:50]
kakobrekla	you like fat women?	[22:50]
kakobrekla	ah	[22:50]
ThickAsThieves	the curve	[22:50]
mike_c	not sure that's any different than just closing early	[22:50]
ThickAsThieves	it let speople bet	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	not only what mike_c said, but also... then how do you specify the curve.	[22:50]
Vexual	risk and reward	[22:50]
ThickAsThieves	of course then you run into the other issue of letting people make losing winning bers	[22:51]
ThickAsThieves	bets*	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[22:51]
ThickAsThieves	what if weight was 'spent'	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/bet/619/bitcoin-difficulty-at-or-above-2b-before-feb/	[22:52]
ozbot	BitBet - Bitcoin difficulty at or above 2B before Feb 2014	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	i can't even follow the guy's idea	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	what has materially changed in that bet since a month ago ?	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	it's still pretty wild.	[22:52]
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jurov	hm, there should exist some curve how the prediction accuracy increases over time for natural phenomena	[22:54]
ThickAsThieves	if they keep adding PHs every week that bet...	[22:54]
jurov	and weight would be inverse of it	[22:54]
jurov	and i strongly dount that curve is linear	[22:54]
ThickAsThieves	pretty good assumption	[22:55]
mike_c	i'm warming up to the 'spend weight' idea	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	jurov just do a historical average of all science ?	[22:56]
midnightmagic	mikaeldice mike_c mircea_popescu mius mixdio	[22:56]
jurov	can't black-scholes be applied?	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	mike_c i dunno what it'd be	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	explain it ?	[22:56]
ThickAsThieves	something like,	[22:56]
mike_c	it puts something of a cap on the bets, but whatever.	[22:56]
mike_c	like, you bet 50btc, the weight drops 50k	[22:56]
ThickAsThieves	you start with 100,000 weight	[22:56]
Vexual	science? is 100% science	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	jurov a nonlinear curve would, of course, have to somehow be communicated to the bettors, which may take 16 months of scam accusations in the btctalk.	[22:57]
ThickAsThieves	then each bet get 10% of that weight, but new bet's weight is offset	[22:57]
ThickAsThieves	by the amount of coin betted	[22:57]
ThickAsThieves	to avoid losing winners	[22:57]
ThickAsThieves	so first bettor get 10,000 weight	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	i can follow mike_c proposal but not yours, and moreover they seem quite distinct	[22:57]
ThickAsThieves	next gets 9000 weight or whatever	[22:57]
jurov	http://weather.mailasail.com/w/uploads/Franks-Weather/Skill-graph.jpg this is for weather forecasts	[22:57]
ThickAsThieves	i honestly dont havce it thought thru	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	jurov interesting...	[22:58]
mike_c	if you "buy" weight, it encourages you to 1) wait for more info, but 2) get in before someone else gets all the good weight	[22:58]
jurov	source: http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Forecast-Accuracy-Limitations	[22:58]
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midnightmagic	mikaeldice mike_c mircea_popescu mius mixdio	[22:58]
midnightmagic	mikaeldice mike_c mircea_popescu mius mixdio	[22:58]
ThickAsThieves	mike_c it's already the case	[22:58]
mike_c	not really	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	mike_c how do you anchor it ? why 50k and not 492 ?	[22:58]
ThickAsThieves	bet early does get you better weight	[22:58]
ThickAsThieves	just the curve is slowwww	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves basically he proposes to not use a time function, but a bet function	[22:59]
mike_c	only marginally. but if you auction off weight, it changes the dynamic a lot	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	likle the blockchain	[22:59]
ThickAsThieves	ah i see	[22:59]
ThickAsThieves	thats totally diff	[22:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5255 @ 0.00089815 = 4.7198 BTC [-]	[22:59]
ThickAsThieves	starting to sound like that other site	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	mike_c how is your idea different from just splitting the pool according to a polynomial (bet sum) ?	[22:59]
ThickAsThieves	where you can sell your bet position	[22:59]
mike_c	thinking it through. i believe it is different because the guy who bets the first 10btc gets more than the guy who bets the last 10btc	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	yes, but his more is a function of the total bet.	[23:01]
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mircea_popescu	or w/e, model this for me	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	mebbe i only think i got what you mean	[23:01]
mike_c	yeah, i'll think it through.	[23:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00090127 = 14.9611 BTC [+]	[23:04]
Vexual	you're only talking about difficulty bets?	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	Vexual it's where people seem to think they do a lot better at predicting outcomes as time goes by	[23:05]
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ThickAsThieves	like that minimum wage one	[23:05]
ThickAsThieves	it;s old but	[23:05]
ThickAsThieves	if it's not on the agenda for the gov by a certain date	[23:06]
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ThickAsThieves	you know it aint gona happen	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	i mean to be clear, im not proposing linear timeweight is the absolutely correct solution. it's obviously wrong, life isn't linear.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	however, it may be the best approximation, depending how the problem is actually defined	[23:06]
ThickAsThieves	what if it's a fixed amount of weight that can be given, then the 'price' of weight is determined by the amount of coins bet prior.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	the who ?	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	jurov what's that curve even, its not a sine section.	[23:07]
Vexual	a curve from the difficulty estimate?	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	no	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	he linked some stuff above from weather prediction	[23:07]
Vexual	perhaps the weather curve is plotted from data	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	prolly	[23:08]
ThickAsThieves	any tapering over time would be better than linear	[23:08]
Vexual	add some function to the diff estimate to make a sexy curve	[23:09]
jurov	can't find any supporting maths, looks like fully empirical	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves that can't be true.	[23:09]
ThickAsThieves	i mean that in the starting from linear sense, not saying an extreme taper would be better	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	"any woman would be better than the girl next door. except, you know, a really annoying pornstar. or a quadriplegic. or a butch lesbian."	[23:10]
ThickAsThieves	like said, not meant to be taken to extremes	[23:11]
ThickAsThieves	meant to move the meter	[23:11]
Vexual	u in it for the money or in it for the love?	[23:11]
ThickAsThieves	like 1 bj per year is better than zero	[23:11]
ThickAsThieves	but 1000 is maybe too much	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	mike_c one major problem of the not-time approach is, what if right before your 10btc bet makes it, someone puts in a 1k btc bet.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	you basically now live in a cloudy soup of "i can't fucking know wjhat i'm betting on"	[23:12]
jurov	1+cos(x) in the 0,pi interval? but yes, needs some modelling what would be the effect	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	jurov looks too un-sine to be a sine imo.	[23:13]
jurov	insinity	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	ianal.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:13]
jurov	just throw weierstrass function in	[23:14]
jurov	epic outrage	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	what can math possibly hurt.	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	blancmange. moar like tits.	[23:15]
mike_c	mircea_popescu: yeah, i was thinking about that. but its not like its not a cloudy soup right now.	[23:16]
jurov	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blancmange_curve is moar like tits	[23:16]
ozbot	Blancmange curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	but at least you know what weight you get.	[23:16]
Vexual	popescu curve	[23:16]
mike_c	which is still only a piece of it. because if someone drops that 1k bet down on my side my odds still tank	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	but not more than his.	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't give him cake and you penis.	[23:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00090128 = 5.9484 BTC [+] {2}	[23:17]
*	AusBitBank (~adam@eth491.qld.adsl.internode.on.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:17]
mike_c	yes. not unsolvable though.	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	what are you, an engineer ?	[23:18]
mike_c	sometimes	[23:18]
ThickAsThieves	what if you just offer 4 curve pictures when making bet, maybe in a Edit Curve button, one tapers early, one late, one linear, one like Franks Weather	[23:18]
ThickAsThieves	then you can overlay the curve chosen on the graph pic for each bet	[23:18]
ThickAsThieves	or sumth	[23:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.257 BTC [+]	[23:18]
mike_c	steep curves late are the same as early closing imo	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves this discussion mostly started because users can't be arsed to use the fine tuning implem,ents already available	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	not like i won't let you make a bet that expires early or that ends with w/e weight etc	[23:19]
asciilifeform	next thing we know, bitbet gets a scripting language, and we're playing 'Core Wars.'	[23:19]
ThickAsThieves	then mods can decide curve?	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	mno ?	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform somethin' like that.	[23:19]
Vexual	you'll end up with a flat line	[23:19]
asciilifeform	what ever happened to the fellow who was going to offer 'pwn by box for 10 btc?'	[23:20]
asciilifeform	*my	[23:20]
*	GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	prolly something unfortunate	[23:23]
asciilifeform	afaik the offer never went live	[23:23]
asciilifeform	he was offering 'get a root account, and see if you can get past my fancy memory partitioner plugin'	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	was it jurov ?	[23:24]
asciilifeform	no, some random face	[23:24]
jurov	nope, i dont give root :)	[23:24]
asciilifeform	pwn contests for btc prize are an underdeveloped field	[23:25]
Vexual	lol	[23:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00243999 = 0.244 BTC [+]	[23:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.257 BTC [+]	[23:25]
asciilifeform	if the arena keeper is reputable, people will play	[23:26]
asciilifeform	otherwise nobody cares to part with an 0day for a prize that may or may not exist.	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	this is a point	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	i guess roua's accident recently left a hole.	[23:26]
dub	s.pwn?	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	besides, btc makes us about 5000x as powerful as fiat ever was	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	what's apple gonna do, come here and bitch ?	[23:26]
*	kleinessteak has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:27]
dub	>9000x tbh	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	myeah	[23:27]
*	kleinessteak (~kleinesst@dslb-188-097-196-112.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:27]
*	toffoo (~tof@186.205.181.212) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	im kinda looking forward to the day when the old world starts actually paying lawyers to troll irc.	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	i can be all, ha, i was doing this in 2012 newbs.	[23:28]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[23:28]
asciilifeform	there's no possible substitute for arena reputation, though; with the possible exception of holding the contest inside a faraday cage, with the target machine signing messages with its addr key on demand.	[23:30]
asciilifeform	perhaps the game is not being played formally because 95% of the btc community is already playing it informally	[23:31]
asciilifeform	without necessarily intending to.	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:32]
mircea_popescu	i don't think there's possible substitution for reputation generally.	[23:32]
asciilifeform	0day + lamer -> crying lamer, 0 probably stays 0; 0day + arena -> possibly nothing, 0 is now 1+	[23:32]
mircea_popescu	this was "news" in 200 bc too. i dunno why it's so counterintuitive	[23:33]
asciilifeform	'you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.'	[23:33]
Vexual	can we have drones with cameras reading keystrokes in the arena?	[23:34]
asciilifeform	Vexual: the arena in question may not be a literal one; the original issue was how to prove that the target actually contains a prize.	[23:35]
asciilifeform	the 'piñata', if you will.	[23:36]
Vexual	you propose to make it more sporting by making it less sporting	[23:38]
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*	KableKiB_ has quit (Client Quit)	[23:38]
Vexual	but legal	[23:38]
*	KableKiB_ (~KableKiB@blk-222-238-21.eastlink.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:38]
asciilifeform	it's a standard 'trading in the desert' situation	[23:39]
*	mafri has quit (Quit: Leaving...)	[23:39]
asciilifeform	player may (or may not) have 0day	[23:39]
asciilifeform	arena may (or may not) have prize.	[23:39]
asciilifeform	player, by playing, necessarily reveals his hand.	[23:39]
asciilifeform	how to motivate him	[23:39]
*	gecko_x8 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[23:39]
*	kleinessteak has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:41]
*	kleinessteak (~kleinesst@dslb-188-097-196-112.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:42]
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BingoBoingo	http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H81%20Pro%20BTC/	[23:43]
ozbot	ASRock > H81 Pro BTC	[23:43]
BingoBoingo	Awfully late to the party with this...	[23:43]
*	kleinessteak (~kleinesst@dslb-188-097-196-112.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:44]
Vexual	i still prefer the physical areana with drones, paid for by discorvey channel	[23:44]
kakobrekla	lol wtf pro btc	[23:44]
asciilifeform	'Just plug in the USB Key and let your computer log in to windows automatically!'	[23:44]
Vexual	then sell your 0 days to market with the advertising	[23:45]
*	skinnkavaj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[23:45]
asciilifeform	no one has yet invented a means whereby unknowns can sell secrets to unknowns.	[23:46]
kakobrekla	omg wtf the mobo has dehumidifier	[23:46]
Vexual	no thats the beauty of it, by removing that special part of the whole game, you reintroduce it again	[23:46]
*	KableKiB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:47]
asciilifeform	Vexual: where do you intend to find the fools who will drop their 0day panties in public?	[23:47]
asciilifeform	anyone who wants to show off can do this already simply by using the weapon 'in anger' the usual way.	[23:48]
mike_c	this is really good:	[23:48]
mike_c	http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/Markets/pennock.pdf	[23:48]
BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: I take that to mean they'll randomly power up the computer when you aren't using to to see if you found any bitcoins yet.	[23:48]
mike_c	"A Dynamic Pari-Mutuel Market for Hedging, Wagering, and Information Aggregation"	[23:48]
kakobrekla	:))	[23:48]
Vexual	thats what i mean ascii, the area is fake	[23:49]
asciilifeform	planet has enough fake things	[23:49]
asciilifeform	how about something real for a twist.	[23:49]
*	gecko_x2 (~relic@84-253-214-157.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	mike_c did the academia folks invent something again ?	[23:50]
mike_c	it's got some good proposals for how to do it. i'm working on the tl;dr.	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	i like this guy.	[23:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00090279 = 7.0869 BTC [+] {2}	[23:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00090295 = 8.5329 BTC [+] {2}	[23:53]
*	tyrion70 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:56]
*	gecko_x2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:56]
Vexual	j Applied Meteorology	[23:56]
*	tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:56]
asciilifeform	if we're doing papers, try this on for size: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/hashlife.pdf	[23:57]
asciilifeform	(a bit of a hog, scanned it personally from the original print)	[23:58]
asciilifeform	anyone who can figure out how to apply it to sha2 wins... +inf.	[23:58]
mike_c	how could i possibly open a pdf from someone i know could hack the shit out of me if he wanted to?	[23:58]
asciilifeform	how do you breathe air.	[23:58]
mike_c	carefully?	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:58]
asciilifeform	somebody could've mixed some strange in.	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	pdfs need to die already	[23:58]
Duffer1	preach it brother	[23:59]
asciilifeform	if jpeg came in multi-page variant, i'd have jpeg.	[23:59]

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