Forum logs for 15 Apr 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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jurov	c1no can we hear more about the oracles?	[00:03]
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jurov	whether they are those contributing to polimedia.us/dtng	[00:04]
jurov	or some other kind	[00:04]
kakobrekla	;;ud spoiled brat	[00:04]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spoiled%20brat \| A kid who wants everything they see... and they cry and scream thir heads off until they get it.	[00:04]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[00:05]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 97.50002, Best ask: 97.66999, Bid-ask spread: 0.16997, Last trade: 97.50002, 24 hour volume: 167079.16352366, 24 hour low: 85.50000, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 99.06497	[00:05]
kakobrekla	not worthless yet so argument invalid	[00:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 28 @ 0.0045 = 0.126 BTC [+]	[00:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 68 @ 0.00371 = 0.2523 BTC [+]	[00:06]
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pgp	what is this ;;next functionality?	[00:09]
kakobrekla	;;next	[00:11]
gribble	expecting 105 if we break 99 \| targets: 105, 113, 124, 130 on the upside \| support: 94, 92, 87-88 \| resistance: 102.5, 105, 110 \| lowball buy target: 74-75 \| strong rally sell target: 138-148 \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 14 2013, 20:46 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| 25 minutes and 19 seconds ago	[00:11]
kakobrekla	like eightball, but more elaborate	[00:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 158 @ 0.01 = 1.58 BTC [+]	[00:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.1 = 2 BTC [-]	[00:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.0971 BTC [-]	[00:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 42 @ 0.097 = 4.074 BTC [-]	[00:14]
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thestringpuller	;;eightball will we hit 98	[00:16]
gribble	No clue.	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	basically nonsense.	[00:16]
thestringpuller	XD	[00:16]
thestringpuller	;;eightball is mircea_popescu getting laid?	[00:16]
gribble	I doubt it very much.	[00:16]
thestringpuller	So mircea_popescu you have some splaining to do	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	;;eightball do i have any explaining to do	[00:17]
gribble	One would be wise to think so.	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[00:17]
thestringpuller	:D	[00:17]
thestringpuller	I expect a blog post please.	[00:17]
thestringpuller	jkjk	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/res/13773.html	[00:18]
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thestringpuller	is that that thing that keeps your penis flacid, but if you get an erection it hurts	[00:20]
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thestringpuller	they made a joke about that in californication	[00:20]
orkaa	ugh, does this thing have a tube that goes inside your dick	[00:21]
orkaa	that could… hurt	[00:21]
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mircea_popescu	i think it's designed to	[00:22]
pgp	bitcoinity added interval high/low on the charts - nice..	[00:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10319 @ 0.00068593 = 7.0781 BTC [-]	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	afaik that was always there	[00:23]
pgp	really, never rendered for me...	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	high: 100.75 low: 92.00	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	that's what you mean right ?	[00:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: possibly relevant to your future "Bitcoin over shortwave" station: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a207831.pdf	[00:28]
pgp	no.. shaded red/green enveloping on the line chart...	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	i can't believe people still use pdfs	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	pgp o o	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ok i don't get this. use meteors how ?!	[00:31]
pgp	i like it - a bit more intuitive than a candlestick chart...	[00:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_burst_communications	[00:32]
kakobrekla	candlestisks are fun	[00:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: like satellite comms, but without having to launch satellites.	[00:32]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: what do you use instead of pdfs?	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	da fuck. ok, that's clever.	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller text.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: one thought: this could even be done for profit. Say, transmit the normal blockchain with a few hours of lag, but those who paid a transaction fee get broadcast in real time.	[00:34]
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mircea_popescu	nah. problem with mbc i'm told is that it has very narrow bw	[00:34]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: a few kb/sec. will suffice in the hypothetical Dark Internet-less Future and its transaction volume	[00:36]
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mircea_popescu	maybe a kb/sec but most trails don't last a second	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	anyway. why not just make a bunch of normal ham radio stations ?	[00:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I think the quoted bandwidth takes the frequency of usable ion trails into account.	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	there's no real advantage in communicating over geographical gaps.	[00:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: without ionosphere bounce (shortwave, <30MHz) or something like MBC you will have a very short usable distance.	[00:38]
thestringpuller	tookah	[00:38]
thestringpuller	ppokah oomla doomah!	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the idea is that if you don't manage to get 10-20-50 mile continuity between statyions	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	it's unlikely for your currency to be useful or recognised anyway.	[00:38]
Diablo-D3	actually, you could just do non-geo sats	[00:38]
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Diablo-D3	that repeat the entire chain	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	the roman empire coinage only had much relevance in those places 10 miles or closer to a castrum	[00:39]
Diablo-D3	using commodity equipment	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 ya but the idea is that for w/e reason you can't use satellites at all	[00:39]
Diablo-D3	so what, just bouncing it off shortwave using high gain antennas?	[00:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the scenario I envision has BTC playing the role of gold bullion, that is relevant despite only being used in relatively few places.	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	basically	[00:40]
Diablo-D3	well	[00:40]
Diablo-D3	shortwave is probably too high bandwidth for what we want	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ya but that's fiction. you'd have one chain per pocket.	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	there'd be canadacaoin and mexicocoin etc	[00:40]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform may get what he wants anyhow	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	the cocoin	[00:40]
Diablo-D3	this is why I want to start my own chain	[00:40]
Diablo-D3	to be the silver to btc's gold	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	you're starting ltc ?	[00:40]
kakobrekla	lol	[00:41]
Diablo-D3	no, ltc did it wrong	[00:41]
Diablo-D3	it should have never used the bitcoin codebase like it did	[00:41]
asciilifeform	a scenario where there are multiple blockchains, but automated exchanges connect at least the well-behaved ones, is in some ways equivalent to having one blockchain.	[00:41]
Diablo-D3	they didnt understand the implications of the code, and they fucked it up	[00:41]
Diablo-D3	litecoin is dead, hell, it was never born	[00:41]
Diablo-D3	it went nowhere and did nothing	[00:41]
Diablo-D3	I refer to litecoin using past tense.	[00:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 730 @ 0.00068593 = 0.5007 BTC [-]	[00:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7449 @ 0.00068551 = 5.1064 BTC [-]	[00:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00068538 = 4.2836 BTC [-]	[00:42]
kakobrekla	theres all the other 10 chains	[00:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00068351 = 6.8351 BTC [-]	[00:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8621 @ 0.00068305 = 5.8886 BTC [-]	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah in some ways. but if you can't interconnect then youi can't really have an exchange.	[00:42]
Diablo-D3	kakobrekla: yeah, but they're all based on bitcoin	[00:42]
Diablo-D3	I don't directly want that.	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	is solid coin still around btw ?	[00:42]
Diablo-D3	I want to take the ideas of bitcoin and use new code	[00:42]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: LTC ~= 1.3 USD, as of a few seconds ago. Not exactly gum wrappers yet.	[00:42]
Diablo-D3	well hows this	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 if you actually take satoshi's stuff, write A SPEC and then have some implementations	[00:42]
kakobrekla	i dont think they are based on btc.. not all of them	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	you;ll have some of my attention.	[00:42]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: there will be a spec, yes.	[00:42]
kakobrekla	i mean some are significantly different and stupider	[00:43]
Diablo-D3	Ill need help writing it from people who write formal specs	[00:43]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: sorry, had the denominations reversed. but still.	[00:43]
Diablo-D3	kakobrekla: they started with the bitcoin codebase, none of them went it from scratch	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	this is true, he has a point there.	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	a full re-doing of satoshi's stuff would be great even if only an exercise.	[00:43]
kakobrekla	but he is not speaking about that	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	pretend it's 2009 and you just published the paper. nao what.	[00:44]
Diablo-D3	yes I am	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	i thought he was	[00:44]
Diablo-D3	Im saying Im going to do it from scratch	[00:44]
Diablo-D3	theres a lot of interesting ideas I want to try out on making chain transmission faster	[00:44]
Diablo-D3	we have what equates to a giant torrent network	[00:44]
Diablo-D3	why arent we using it as such	[00:44]
Diablo-D3	I also want to make it very fucking difficult for ASICs to win	[00:45]
Diablo-D3	GPUs and FPGAs are already out	[00:45]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: at this point, an alt-chain is guilty until proven innocent of being a clever pre-mining scheme.	[00:45]
kakobrekla	first you want to run asic then you want to kill asic	[00:45]
kakobrekla	im not following	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/133347564549.jpg clit likes your idea.	[00:45]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: and ASICs will always win in the end.	[00:45]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: its impossible to premine anyhow	[00:45]
Diablo-D3	if your first block is 0	[00:46]
Diablo-D3	and hwardwired into the client	[00:46]
Diablo-D3	or rather, your first block's parent is 0	[00:46]
Diablo-D3	how the fuck do you premine it	[00:46]
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Scrat	i will mine diablocoins	[00:46]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: people will always assume that whoever the early miners turn out to be, are in cahoots with whoever proposes the alt-chain.	[00:46]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: well, they are.	[00:46]
kakobrekla	dont call it diablocoin	[00:46]
Diablo-D3	even with bitcoin it was	[00:46]
thestringpuller	I will mine diablo coins too	[00:46]
kakobrekla	or maybe better yet yeah do that.	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	ya srsly. can it be called something other than "Coin"	[00:47]
Diablo-D3	hell, I think satoshi may have even asked me early on to use bitcoin	[00:47]
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Diablo-D3	either that, or someone who he asked asked me	[00:47]
Diablo-D3	I know satoshi used multiple irc nicks	[00:47]
kakobrekla	one of them was Diablo-D3	[00:47]
thestringpuller	lololol	[00:47]
kakobrekla	conspirazi	[00:47]
Diablo-D3	YES< KAK, IM SATOSHI, YOU CAUGHT ME	[00:47]
thestringpuller	hahahaha	[00:47]
Diablo-D3	seriously, you'd think I would write c++ that horrid?	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	lol he was fishing for that so hard	[00:48]
asciilifeform	now, consider an alt-chain where mining can only be done with human labour. say, solving PSPACE-complete puzzles like Sokoban.	[00:48]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	o yes	[00:48]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: Ive written bots that do sokoban for me on nethack	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	i'd have my slavegirls mining naked in chains	[00:49]
Diablo-D3	so w/e	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	I WOULD RULE THIS COIN	[00:49]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: exactly. slavegirls don't scale quite as well as ASICs.	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	i beg your pardon ?	[00:49]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu is actually jabba the hutt	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	here we are 4 years in all we have is ~300 asics	[00:49]
thestringpuller	builds his empire on slave girls	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	get out. slavegirls scale way better.	[00:49]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I'm rather surprised you have not built SlaveCoin yet.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	im lazy.	[00:50]
thestringpuller	that's why mpex is 1990's	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	this is the problem with slavery, it doesn't promot innovation.	[00:50]
thestringpuller	:D	[00:50]
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ThickAsThieves	wtb 10,000 diablocoins at gox spot price	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	actually,. to go real fascist :	[00:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8380 @ 0.00068305 = 5.724 BTC [-]	[00:52]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: Satoshi's use of gnarly C++ is one of the best pieces of evidence for the "Bitcoin is an NSA black project" crackpot hypothesis.	[00:52]
Diablo-D3	well, if btc is going to reach global GDP prices ($34k at current global GDP) then DiabloCoin should be around $1.	[00:52]
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mircea_popescu	you could have mining which consists of giving birth to specified-dna babies.	[00:52]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: /me shrugs	[00:52]
mircea_popescu	you'd have to keep a bunch of vats somewhere which'd be the blockchain	[00:52]
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Diablo-D3	but basically	[00:53]
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Diablo-D3	you know how blocks are named by a 256 bit value?	[00:53]
Diablo-D3	I think I might go the 1024 bit value route	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[00:54]
Diablo-D3	qc proof.	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	explain it to me like i'm retarded	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	which is usually the case anyway.	[00:54]
Diablo-D3	okay, you know what scrypt is, right?	[00:54]
Diablo-D3	scrypt isn't limited to what ltc is doing with it	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[00:55]
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kakobrekla	cant they change that like bitcoin can to sha512	[00:55]
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Diablo-D3	kakobrekla: they'd have to actually do it	[00:56]
Diablo-D3	and they have no interest in doing it	[00:56]
kakobrekla	....	[00:56]
*	kakobrekla facepalms	[00:56]
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Diablo-D3	kakobrekla: I dont think they're smart enough to figure out how, honestly.	[00:56]
kakobrekla	like bitcoin isnt at sha512 yet cause there is no interest cause there is no need cause its making sense ?	[00:56]
Diablo-D3	the original scrypt spec doesnt allow the sizes Im talking about	[00:56]
asciilifeform	all of the Bitcoin-like altchains are doomed, because the first serious guy with a semiconductor fab will own the world. SlaveCoin is the future!	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	who's "they"	[00:56]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: the ltc devs	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there's more people owning slaves than semiconductor fabs. this is a fact.	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	there's multiple ltc devs ?!	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	i thought it was just the azn kid	[00:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the slaves need a certain minimum IQ, for Sokoban.	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	most slaves are smarter than average for their area.	[00:57]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: theres been other committers	[00:58]
Diablo-D3	close enough to say plural	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	a ok	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	i never followed it closely	[00:58]
Diablo-D3	anyhow, he took an off the shelf message signing scheme	[00:58]
Diablo-D3	well	[00:58]
Diablo-D3	a key derivation function	[00:58]
Diablo-D3	and threw it in	[00:58]
Diablo-D3	without really understanding how it it worked	[00:59]
asciilifeform	think about the endgame in the ASIC trend. eventually, only powerful industrial nations will matter in the BTC game, because they can afford to build fabs. Just a handful each, even. And we're back to the central-baking clusterfuck we see with fiat.	[00:59]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: exactly	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no we're not.	[00:59]
Diablo-D3	which is why I want something that requires off the shelf normal CPUs	[01:00]
asciilifeform	SlaveCoin, on the other hand, evens the playing field somewhat.	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	no it doesn't omg. the same can be said : only the most powerful states can keep slaves etc.	[01:00]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: basically	[01:00]
Diablo-D3	https://www.tarsnap.com/scrypt.html	[01:00]
Diablo-D3	read that	[01:00]
Diablo-D3	see where it says -m?	[01:01]
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mircea_popescu	ya	[01:01]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: any scheme that claims to be resistant to hardware brute-forcing which doesn't change complexity class is hollow - it just hasn't met the right hardware yet.	[01:01]
Diablo-D3	ltc could be fixed if they used -m for difficulty.	[01:01]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: no, the right hardware exists	[01:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.427 BTC [+]	[01:02]
Diablo-D3	like, I can buy a machine that has 1TB of memory	[01:02]
thestringpuller	!ticker m S.MPOE	[01:02]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00068305 / 0.00069902 / 0.0007217 (434901 shares, 304.01 BTC), 7D: 0.00063322 / 0.00069632 / 0.000735 (2592815 shares, 1,805.44 BTC), 30D: 0.00059218 / 0.00068937 / 0.00077505 (10918510 shares, 7,526.99 BTC)	[01:02]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: Im not saying I can stop asics	[01:02]
Diablo-D3	Im saying I can make their construction very expensive	[01:02]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: a PC with 1TB of RAM will still be beaten by an ASIC connected to the same 1TB of RAM.	[01:02]
Diablo-D3	not really	[01:03]
Diablo-D3	scrypt is not computation hard.	[01:03]
Diablo-D3	once you've gone past the size of your cache, the speed of scrypt is the speed of your memory.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	i think they should use -M anyweay	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	-m is nonsense.	[01:03]
Diablo-D3	er	[01:03]
Diablo-D3	I meant -M not -m	[01:03]
Scrat	ram is easier to fab than logic	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	lol omg i found first diablocoin bug	[01:03]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: yes, but anyone can find it	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	but scrat has a point	[01:03]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: hurr	[01:03]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: fine, the ASIC will have RAM on-die, running at the same clock.	[01:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 1 @ 0.007 BTC [+]	[01:04]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: do you realize how expensive that is?	[01:04]
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asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: certainly	[01:04]
Diablo-D3	I'm trying to wildly drive up the cost of ASICs	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	this is a lost bet.	[01:04]
Diablo-D3	it can be done	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	the cost of making computers is nil. we're getting there.	[01:04]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: but raising the cost of attack is a loser's game. eventually someone will pony up the cost, and rule.	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	^	[01:04]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: yes, but do you know what the fun part is?	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	actually raising the cost is building an advantage for the attacker.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	keep cost low.	[01:05]
Diablo-D3	difficulty is linked to -M.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin was a LOT stronger back when ppl cpu minded it	[01:05]
Diablo-D3	think about what I just said.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	we had 100k nodes and a bunch of miners.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	now... not so much. 500 nodes and 5 miners.	[01:05]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: shush for a sec	[01:05]
asciilifeform	right now you can put the BTC world in your pocket for less than the cost of a jumbo jet.	[01:05]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform is thinking	[01:05]
Diablo-D3	give up? if difficulty is linked to -M, your asics _stop working_	[01:06]
Diablo-D3	they run out of memory	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	um	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	floating -M may be a great idea.	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	in that it ruins on-die ram designs	[01:06]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: all you need is a high-speed interconnect that lets you connect arbitrarily more of whatever the necessary resource is (RAM, hashing power, etc.)	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	BUT! you can just make asics with 1 tb worth of ram per chip and redundant math processes which just share it.	[01:06]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: yes, but people can already buy those	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	so your asic may slow down as m goes up but that's all	[01:06]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: yes but I still eat away at that	[01:07]
Diablo-D3	normal people can buy off the shelf hardware and do it cheaper	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	noit for long.	[01:07]
Diablo-D3	Im trying to make it cost ineffective for asics to win	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	this was true of gpus too	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	i get what you're trying but you're not ther eyet.	[01:07]
Diablo-D3	sha256 is computational intensive	[01:07]
Diablo-D3	it uses basically no memory	[01:07]
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Diablo-D3	scrypt uses basically no cpu, but is memory intensive	[01:07]
asciilifeform	the fun part in all of this is that "for every wily arse, somewhere there is a cock with threads." Eventually someone builds an optical computer operating on standing-wave physics, that pwns every new hashing function you come up with the day it comes out.	[01:08]
mod6	isn't it true that major chip makers will get into this space as btc becomes more widespread and demand for these chipsets becomes higher? innovation will follow also?	[01:08]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: of course	[01:08]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: the thing is, average people can buy ram	[01:08]
Diablo-D3	average people CANT buy asics	[01:08]
Diablo-D3	and asics + ram isnt a winning solution	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	mod6 so we hope	[01:08]
asciilifeform	the only long-term solution is a work function that is "AI-complete." Hence SlaveCoin.	[01:09]
mod6	why not? what if AMD comes out with ASICs in '14?	[01:09]
Diablo-D3	the cost of an ASIC with 1TB of ram is going to be the same as a cheap CPU with 1TB of ram	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform however the problem of making an ai-ciomplete pow function is ALSO kinda difficult./	[01:09]
Diablo-D3	its the ram thats going to be expensive, not the ASIC	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 nah, it will be higher cause of economies of scale.	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	cpus have a large mkt already	[01:10]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: yes, and cpus are the highest economy of scale	[01:10]
Diablo-D3	the asics and cpus would use the same ram, and have boards just as complex	[01:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: here's a starting point: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.52.41	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	basically your coin would be mined in datacenters.	[01:10]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: it probably would be	[01:10]
asciilifeform	what remains is to work it into a workable scheme for a hash chain	[01:10]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: but a lot of people have already built mining farms in their basements	[01:10]
asciilifeform	an "exercise for the alert reader," really.	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so are you working on this ?	[01:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I might, if I lacked anything else to do. Personally I'm not sitting on a stable of slaves waiting to be Sokobanned.	[01:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you, on the other hand, have plenty of motivation to try, possibly.	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	it's the internet, easy enough to do.	[01:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00068305 = 14.3441 BTC [-]	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	i don't happen to believe in making things to own. i prefer owning things other ppl make	[01:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: there are a great many interesting hard problems, and life is short.	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[01:13]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: you made an exchange though that you now own	[01:13]
thestringpuller	why contradict yourself?	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	only for lack of options	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	hater	[01:13]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: dealing in financial instruments is the most effective means of pwning people. far better than the sword.	[01:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform let me get this straight.	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	suppose we find a liniarisation of sokoban maps, such that any arbitrary number comes to a map	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	proof of work could be then accomplished by showing a path of solving the map in at most N steps, where n is the difficulty.	[01:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00068305 = 7.3428 BTC [-]	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	did i miss something here ?	[01:16]
Scrat	litecoin-0.6.3c-linux.tar.gz — Litecoin v0.6.3c for Linux (tgz, 32/64-bit) 10.9MB · Uploaded 9 months ago	[01:17]
Scrat	is litecoin too cool for recent code or what	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:18]
mod6	if its perfect, no need to change it! trololol	[01:19]
*	mod6 looks around for goat	[01:19]
Scrat	goat found http://porngo.at	[01:20]
mod6	wat	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	haha	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	why not trade them on mpex i wonder.	[01:22]
mod6	yeah, weird. and these are weeklies?	[01:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.00068305 = 6.045 BTC [-]	[01:26]
mod6	well, i guess they have up to the next forward month	[01:26]
*	micky (~micky@216.3.101.62) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00068412 = 5.5072 BTC [+]	[01:31]
mod6	oh its: personname: Josh Popham	[01:33]
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*	mod6 scraches head	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	lolwut ?	[01:36]
*	Scrat points mod6 at jcpham	[01:36]
Scrat	to*	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	haha jcpham went into the options biz ?	[01:36]
mod6	yeah	[01:36]
mod6	looks that way	[01:36]
Scrat	I don't think it's his	[01:37]
Scrat	fbastage made it iirc	[01:38]
mircea_popescu	no idea who that is	[01:39]
mod6	he's the owner of the domain: `whois porngo.at`	[01:39]
mod6	these are only european style also.	[01:42]
mod6	anyway, interesting	[01:42]
mircea_popescu	ouch	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	well... if european style end of month options go for like .4 btc per 96 call	[01:44]
mircea_popescu	then maybe mpoe bot isn't even that overpriced atm	[01:44]
mod6	ok so the buyer puts in the expiry time, depending if they want weekly or monthy or next forward month: "The expiration date is ________ (GMT) "	[01:46]
mod6	but yeah, they can't exercise on their own	[01:46]
thestringpuller	maybe someone should take those numbers and make bids	[01:47]
thestringpuller	as mircea_popescu indicated	[01:47]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: btw something Im interested in	[01:48]
mod6	i wonder if these contracts will be PGP signed by both parties? i guess someone would have to inquire further...	[01:48]
Diablo-D3	mircea_popescu: so, blocks are going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, right?	[01:48]
Diablo-D3	I should be able to use network coding to basically torrent the new block to all my peers	[01:49]
Diablo-D3	say, use compression to compress it as far as possible, then use some form of reed solomon error correction	[01:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14159 @ 0.00068412 = 9.6865 BTC [+]	[01:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8309 @ 0.00069018 = 5.7347 BTC [+]	[01:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1332 @ 0.00069049 = 0.9197 BTC [+]	[01:50]
Diablo-D3	so I can send it out in chunks, and getting x of y chunks you can reconstruct the missing (y - x) chunks	[01:50]
Diablo-D3	but not only that, all nodes start repeating the block BEFORE Ive sent (y- x) chunks	[01:50]
Scrat	so you compress it and get to 60% of the size, then a healthy application of reed solomon codes will give you another 40%	[01:51]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: hah	[01:51]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: reed solomon codes wont do that	[01:52]
Diablo-D3	infact, lets say I need 3 blocks to reconstruct 4	[01:52]
Scrat	if you use something fast like snappy I doubt it will go below 80-90%	[01:52]
Diablo-D3	er, 3 reed solomon block chunks to reconstruct 4	[01:53]
Diablo-D3	the physical space taken up by 3 will be the size of the original	[01:53]
Diablo-D3	so I dont get compression out of those	[01:53]
Scrat	I still don't get where it will be used	[01:53]
Diablo-D3	it propagates the block faster	[01:54]
pgp	wow a lot of coin just printed...	[01:54]
Diablo-D3	I send chunk A to peer 1, that completes, then I send chunk B to peer 2 and while Im sending it to 2, peer 1 is sending A to peer n	[01:54]
thestringpuller	Shits getting super real	[01:54]
Diablo-D3	and then that finishes, and I send chunk C to peer 3, and while Im doing that, peer 1 sends A to another n (where n includes 2 and 3), peer 2 sends B to n (which includes 1 and 3)	[01:55]
Diablo-D3	blocks may become double or triple digits in size	[01:55]
Diablo-D3	er	[01:56]
Diablo-D3	double or triple digits of MB	[01:56]
Scrat	i still think that more intelligence in the download algorithms will trump whatever improvement you will get there	[01:56]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: that IS the intelligence	[01:56]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: Im actually surprised bittorrent didnt go that route	[01:56]
Diablo-D3	it chunks torrents up and seeds sends blocks evenly to peers	[01:56]
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Diablo-D3	ie, it prioritizes chunks that have low visibility	[01:57]
Scrat	well I need to think about it but it looks as if you're gonna need to have a lot of RS redundancy to make that usable	[01:57]
Diablo-D3	but it has a lot of shit on top to handle error correction	[01:57]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: well, no	[01:57]
Scrat	whales be dumpin'	[01:58]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: a properly done RS setup of n of m, the size of n chunks is going to be at least the size of the original	[01:58]
Diablo-D3	so if I need 3 or 4 of a 128kb block, 3 RS chunks will be 128kb	[01:58]
Scrat	well at this point my brain capacity is reduced to watching kiefer sutherland on my 3rd monitor	[01:59]
Diablo-D3	actually, lets say 192kb block, 3 chunks will be 192kb	[01:59]
Diablo-D3	I send in total 256kb for a 192kb	[02:00]
Scrat	and we shouldn't discuss this anymore :p	[02:00]
Diablo-D3	but get in return faster propegation rate	[02:00]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: btw, theres another thing	[02:00]
Diablo-D3	with RS built in	[02:00]
Diablo-D3	people could send these over shitty wireless links	[02:00]
Scrat	bleh, like bit errors make it to the application level	[02:01]
Scrat	that's so rare	[02:01]
Diablo-D3	as in, non-networking	[02:01]
Diablo-D3	as in, Bitcoin Eye In the Sky	[02:01]
Diablo-D3	btw, I probably wouldnt go the route of 3 out of 4	[02:02]
Scrat	ditch the OS/lang idea imo and make a new coin	[02:02]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[02:02]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 89.95308, Best ask: 90.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.04692, Last trade: 90.00000, 24 hour volume: 152496.21232257, 24 hour low: 89.25715, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 98.94765	[02:02]
Diablo-D3	8 of 10 or 128 of 30 seem to be optimal route	[02:02]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: I already shelved seaking	[02:02]
Diablo-D3	I didnt like the direction it was going	[02:02]
Diablo-D3	I can do those techniques in C	[02:02]
Diablo-D3	its just more verbose	[02:02]
Scrat	oh shiz, 2 day minimum?	[02:03]
Diablo-D3	2 days for what	[02:03]
Scrat	talking about price sorry	[02:03]
Diablo-D3	128 out of 130 would be really interesting btw	[02:04]
Diablo-D3	send 195kb for a 192kb block	[02:04]
Diablo-D3	connect to 130 peers, send each one chunk	[02:04]
Diablo-D3	entire bitcoin network replicates your block as quickly as possible	[02:05]
Scrat	well i guess it does make a bit of sense, just 2-3% of overhead for a great increase in availability	[02:05]
Diablo-D3	the entire network could theoretically have chunk 1 by the time you finish chunk 130	[02:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 2 @ 0.25 = 0.5 BTC [-]	[02:06]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[02:06]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 88.00001, Best ask: 88.06169, Bid-ask spread: 0.06168, Last trade: 88.06169, 24 hour volume: 159387.05385511, 24 hour low: 84.88000, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 98.39396	[02:06]
thestringpuller	Diablo-D3: dude wtf	[02:06]
Scrat	BT is quite old btw and most innovations on it have to do with avoiding centralization	[02:06]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: yes, which we have in spades	[02:06]
thestringpuller	get the fuck out of here with that scamcoin shit	[02:06]
Scrat	YESSIR	[02:07]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: are you trolling me?	[02:07]
thestringpuller	sort of, why do you people always want to reinvent the wheel rather than make the wheel better?	[02:07]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: this is making the wheel better	[02:07]
thestringpuller	haven't we all fucking learned that Unix did everything right years ago?	[02:07]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: actually its funny you mention that	[02:08]
kakobrekla	wait the topic of the convo is still diablocoin?	[02:08]
thestringpuller	yet people still wanna reinvent shit	[02:08]
Diablo-D3	no we havent	[02:08]
Diablo-D3	otherwise WE WOULDNT HAVE FUCKING THREADS	[02:08]
Diablo-D3	SERIOUSLY	[02:08]
Scrat	but to be fair such a scheme will in no way be a USP for a new coin	[02:08]
Diablo-D3	WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THREADS WAS _EVER_ SUCH A GOOD IDEA	[02:08]
Scrat	QC resistance might be	[02:08]
thestringpuller	Dude don't engineers started on the "threads' debate	[02:08]
thestringpuller	that's like arguing with a vegan about honey	[02:08]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: wait, what?	[02:08]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: I request a new analogy	[02:09]
thestringpuller	D00D threads suck, we get it.	[02:09]
Scrat	Diablo-D3: a coin with coloring built in	[02:09]
thestringpuller	chrome works on processes etc.	[02:09]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: that could be interesting, but Im not entirely sure how colored coins work	[02:09]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: it works on processes poorly	[02:09]
Diablo-D3	chrome is an utter pile of shit	[02:09]
Scrat	u wut	[02:09]
Scrat	chrome is the most advanced browser by far	[02:09]
deadweasel	choromium is nice too	[02:10]
Diablo-D3	Scrat: yes, and so is safari and firefox by that measuring stick	[02:11]
Diablo-D3	they all suck	[02:11]
deadweasel	you still on lynx?	[02:11]
Scrat	they did things right from the get go	[02:11]
Scrat	proper sandboxing, isolation, JS engine	[02:11]
Diablo-D3	anyhow	[02:11]
Scrat	we are waay waay offtopic	[02:11]
Diablo-D3	the point Im trying to make here	[02:11]
Scrat	;;ticker --last	[02:11]
Diablo-D3	is Im not reinventing bitcoin	[02:11]
gribble	86.99999	[02:11]
Diablo-D3	Im making it better	[02:11]
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thestringpuller	You won't know that until it's used.	[02:12]
thestringpuller	We don't know anything.	[02:12]
asciilifeform	re: colored coin: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988	[02:12]
Diablo-D3	well, Im assuming that bitcoin will eventually copy my ideas	[02:12]
deadweasel	when frying a skinny fish, do to poke at it too much, this spoils the fish.	[02:12]
deadweasel	(the fish is bitcoin)	[02:12]
deadweasel	do not*	[02:12]
deadweasel	poke at the fish :D	[02:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.427 BTC [+]	[02:13]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: huh	[02:14]
Diablo-D3	I like that idea	[02:14]
kakobrekla	!l m s.dice	[02:14]
assbot	Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.00328066 BTC [-]	[02:14]
Diablo-D3	but what stops me from doing that now?	[02:14]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: nothing.	[02:14]
exfortuna	does anyone know where I could find data for bitcoin difficulty?	[02:14]
kakobrekla	exfortuna current of historic?	[02:15]
exfortuna	historic	[02:15]
Scrat	exfortuna: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/	[02:15]
Diablo-D3	okay so wait	[02:15]
Diablo-D3	you sign your coins	[02:15]
Diablo-D3	and then people can coutersign your coins if you're a dick?	[02:15]
Diablo-D3	and then people can reject coins that have too many countersignatories?	[02:15]
exfortuna	Thank you, but is there a way to get raw data? I'm doing a regression analysis for an econ class	[02:16]
Diablo-D3	exfortuna: you can calculate it from the chain	[02:16]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: more or less. but note that their signatures only count if you deliberately offered your coins for the process (to build trust.)	[02:16]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: yes, but what stops me from maliciously countersigning coins	[02:16]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: the only coins you can shit on are those for which a Shitcoin bond has been issued to you. but it is true that you could do so maliciously. hence a certain amount of dirt would be seen as commonplace.	[02:17]
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asciilifeform	but the idea is that "clean" coins would be worth more.	[02:17]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: hrm	[02:18]
Scrat	exfortuna: this might do http://blockexplorer.com/q/nethash	[02:18]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: it'd be interesting to have colored coins built into the system	[02:18]
Diablo-D3	for lots of purposes	[02:18]
Diablo-D3	like, company share trading	[02:18]
Scrat	csv, difficulty is 5th number	[02:18]
exfortuna	appreciate it :)	[02:19]
asciilifeform	at the time I wrote that, I was not yet 100% clear on how the block chain works. But now I know that Shitcoin could ride entirely on top of Bitcoin proper. You would store the necessary data as custom transactions (the way some people encode prayers into the blockchain.)	[02:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00068305 = 4.474 BTC [-]	[02:19]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: we'd need a limited form of this	[02:19]
Diablo-D3	where I send a tx to the network that says "these coins are shitcoined for the following users" and then list their public keys	[02:20]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: we'd need a new tx format	[02:21]
*	Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)	[02:21]
jurov	sorry for not reading it all but have a proposal for slavecoin	[02:21]
Diablo-D3	which isnt a big deal	[02:21]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: the idea is that a user has to sign a message with his key: "This coin can be shat on in the future, by anyone who can provide x such that F(x) = somenumber." He gives x to the bond holder(s).	[02:21]
asciilifeform	F is a trapdoor function.	[02:21]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: well, the way I'd code it is	[02:21]
asciilifeform	jurov: do tell.	[02:21]
jurov	encode a block asenglish text tobe submitted into peer-reviewed scientific journal	[02:21]
jurov	preferably resistant to sokal attack	[02:22]
Diablo-D3	send a tx that contains your signature like normal, but contains a list of addresses who can countersign it	[02:22]
asciilifeform	jurov: this just guarantees that every peer-reviewed journal will be subverted by SlaveCoiners eventually.	[02:23]
asciilifeform	jurov: the idea is that you need to pick a work function which remains hard even when a million people (some of whom with arbitrary pull) want it to be easy.	[02:23]
Diablo-D3	but the countersignature can ALSO be a normal tx	[02:23]
ThickAsThieves	this is what makes this channel great	[02:24]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: exactly that. this system would ride on top of Bitcoin proper. non-Shitcoin-enabled clients would function exactly as they do now.	[02:24]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: well, the thing with my idea is	[02:24]
Diablo-D3	lets say you have tagged coins	[02:24]
Diablo-D3	say, shares of a company	[02:24]
Diablo-D3	I can sign a sharecoin using the scripting stuff	[02:25]
Scrat	what can you measure slave PoW on?	[02:25]
Scrat	nikes per second?	[02:25]
Scrat	pyramids per year?	[02:25]
Scrat	hmm	[02:25]
Diablo-D3	"this coin will be send to user x if user x countersigns this tx with y dtc by block z"	[02:25]
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asciilifeform	Scrat: see "CAPTCHA" as a (somewhat flawed) example.	[02:26]
Diablo-D3	and the client would automatically pop up requests to do so	[02:26]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: a Shitcoin that can result in moving coins is a terrible idea. Moral hazard for bond-holders.	[02:26]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: notice Im not using them for rep	[02:27]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: the wronged party needs to be able to deal damage to a scammer without benefiting himself.	[02:27]
Diablo-D3	Im using them for atomic ownership trnasferral	[02:27]
Diablo-D3	and then for sharecoins, I could query the client to see who owns shares	[02:28]
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asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: AFAIK, anything where coins can move programmatically is incompatible with Bitcoin as we know it.	[02:29]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: this would have to be an alt-chain.	[02:30]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: of course, this is for DiabloCoin.	[02:30]
thestringpuller	Diablo-D3: whyyyyy'	[02:30]
thestringpuller	Diablo-D3: you are wasting so much time on hypotheticals	[02:30]
thestringpuller	this is ridiculous	[02:30]
thestringpuller	go build your server farm	[02:30]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: I juggle tasks.	[02:30]
Diablo-D3	seems to use my time more efficiently	[02:30]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: maybe Satoshi should have waxed his car instead of dealing in weird hypotheticals, too.	[02:30]
ThickAsThieves	i want to learn more about this. more and more and more and more and more	[02:30]
asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: which "this" ?	[02:31]
ThickAsThieves	i kid	[02:31]
ThickAsThieves	would prefer the channel get back on topic	[02:31]
ThickAsThieves	idea are cool	[02:31]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: Im not sure where you're getting hypotheticals though	[02:31]
ThickAsThieves	but its dominating	[02:31]
ThickAsThieves	cant we get back to oohhhing and ahhhing over gox price drop?	[02:32]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[02:32]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 87.21000, Best ask: 88.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.79000, Last trade: 88.00000, 24 hour volume: 164007.46365407, 24 hour low: 84.88000, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 97.85507	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	this chatlog. it sucked.	[02:32]
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ThickAsThieves	about to hit 85	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	poor mtgox	[02:33]
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Diablo-D3	we'll hit $34k eventually	[02:33]
copumpkin	that's what you need it to be to reach your goal?	[02:34]
ThickAsThieves	i cant stand bots	[02:34]
copumpkin	I love me some bots	[02:34]
ThickAsThieves	i assume they cant be avoided	[02:34]
Diablo-D3	copumpkin: do, its global GDP / 21 million	[02:34]
ThickAsThieves	but i cant stand them	[02:34]
asciilifeform	everybody says that bots/HFT are a fact of life, but what if you have to solve a Sokoban (or other AI-complete nonsense) to move a coin...	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	the solution to hft is both simple and already implemented.	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	whats that?	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	however, nyse & friends are very mtgox-y	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves minimum life for orders.	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	you put it on the book, can't cancel it for 1 second say.	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	ah	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	good one	[02:36]
Scrat	asciilifeform: then it will be delegated to chinese sweatshops	[02:36]
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Scrat	like captchas are	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	i just want the market to be a market	[02:36]
asciilifeform	that only kills one type of robotic trading (fake orders to move the market)	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	of people wanting the asset	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	that's the only kind actually bad.	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	not gaming it	[02:36]
ThickAsThieves	i guess i'm a hypocrite tho	[02:37]
ThickAsThieves	.00001 speculation is no different than 10000btc i guess.... i guess	[02:37]
asciilifeform	even if all trades had to "fill or kill" immediately, people will still whine about HFT and bots.	[02:37]
ThickAsThieves	its sorta like how i hate traffic cameras	[02:38]
ThickAsThieves	no representation	[02:38]
asciilifeform	because what they're ultimately whining about is "the race being to the swift."	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	there's no real advantage to being quick in a game of wits.	[02:39]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, entrepreneurs : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176234.msg1834958#msg1834958	[02:39]
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exfortuna	>mfw trollcoin founder becomes millionaire	[02:41]
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Scrat	mircea_popescu: you will eat your hat if this turns into the next google	[02:41]
Scrat	ok exfortuna you beat me to it	[02:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if speed doesn't matter, why does anyone complain about "goxlag" ?	[02:41]
asciilifeform	(whenever I read the word "goxlag" I can't help but imagine a future Gulag for BTC users...)	[02:41]
mircea_popescu	lol	[02:42]
ThickAsThieves	speed matters in arb	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	different stories tho, asciilifeform.	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	if mtgox lag was subsecond (which is HUGELY laggy for an exchange) nobody'd complain	[02:42]
ThickAsThieves	i think mp just meant that in the scheme of things, betting small in high qty is no better than big in low qty	[02:42]
ThickAsThieves	but maybe i'm putting words in his mouth	[02:42]
ThickAsThieves	if you guess right you win either way	[02:43]
mircea_popescu	the idea is just that having a car that's 1ms faster wins you nasdaq, but on a well designed exchange having a bot that's 1ms faster wins you little if anything at all.	[02:43]
asciilifeform	the guy who has deterministic+fast access (say, Dr. Evil who runs Gox and controls the Lag Generator) presumably wins over those who are stuck talking to the business end of MtLag	[02:43]
mircea_popescu	this presumption is exactly what i'm attacking.	[02:43]
mircea_popescu	let me construct an analogy here.	[02:43]
mircea_popescu	romania is one of the eu members. it has always been a laggard. this was always decried as a huge disadvantage.	[02:44]
ThickAsThieves	includes a whore, go	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	now europe is going off a cliff, and the laggard is in the best position all things considering.	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	being very fast is not per se an advantage.	[02:44]
asciilifeform	ok, maybe lag only works to Dr. Evil's advantage if he uses it as a nice padded box in which to hide front-running.	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	executing very well is an advantage if you have a good strat. if you have a bad strat executing poorly is actually better	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	this is how bureaucracies survive : clueless but at least slow.	[02:45]
ThickAsThieves	i dont think either of your perspectives is totally relavant	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	possibly not. i think we're discussing very slightly different things	[02:45]
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asciilifeform	I suspect, but cannot prove, that the people making the real money on BTC regardless of ups/downs are front-running exchanges.	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	this is not true.	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	mtgox frontruns to all shit and yet it lost its shirt	[02:46]
mircea_popescu	because they really thought stability is above 100	[02:46]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: as far as I can tell, its shirt is still on. and the operator is laughing all the way to the (fiat) bank.	[02:46]
mircea_popescu	orly ? and on what do you tell this ?	[02:46]
ThickAsThieves	did you see all that pizza he ate?	[02:47]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[02:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the damn thing is still online and trading, for one	[02:47]
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mircea_popescu	by that approach that options site referenced earlier is "laughing all the way to the bank"	[02:47]
ThickAsThieves	mp do you ever laugh at the bank?	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	notrly.	[02:48]
ThickAsThieves	first sign of a bubble	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[02:48]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[02:48]
asciilifeform	if the real purpose of MtGox is to bring in tons of chump money for the owner, then it is working great, even if it will soon be done serving its purpose.	[02:49]
ThickAsThieves	reports of gox's death are exaggerated	[02:49]
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mircea_popescu	well you can always have an ex post facto definition of the purpose of an item that suits its actual history.	[02:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00068305 = 15.4711 BTC [-]	[02:51]
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mircea_popescu	go hit on a girl, she turns yhou down, you meant for her to turn you down all along. sure.	[02:51]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is more like, you do the 100,000th girl and your cock falls off from exceeding its MTBF.	[02:52]
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mircea_popescu	hardly.	[02:53]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: at any rate, why are we burying MtGox again? who exactly is a serious contender for its throne?	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	nobody.	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	who is a serious contender for the exchange dollars to euros "throne" irl ?	[02:55]
Diablo-D3	no one	[02:56]
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mircea_popescu	right. cause it's a side business of no particular value or import	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	unless you're in like iran or some other primitive economy.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	any lackey of the traditional banking system can trade USD for EUR, so it is unremarkable. but there appears to be a limited number of people with the balls and connections to run automated BTC/fiat exchanges.	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	notrly.	[02:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 2 @ 0.0018 = 0.0036 BTC [+]	[02:58]
asciilifeform	BTC-fiat trading might be a "winner take all" game, like cocaine cartels.	[02:58]
asciilifeform	the prize goes to whoever can suck in and spit out fiat with the smallest transaction cost.	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	it's not a game at all.	[03:00]
asciilifeform	(esp. if you include the cost of establishing reputation in said cost. otherwise my front door could be a top BTC exchange.)	[03:00]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.48 BTC [+]	[03:01]
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mircea_popescu	except they've established the worst reputation ever.	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	i don't see any value there.	[03:02]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: nah, the worst reputation is just some random address you can send BTC or wire USD to from which nothing comes out again. MtGox is still a league above the rest, considering that this is what the rest is by default.	[03:04]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what, exactly, is the practical alternative to Gox right now? OTC, where one has to actually deal with humans? BTC-e, where BTC consistently traces <50USD vs. gox?	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	depends. there's no such thing as "an alternative". wjhat's the alternative to eating from the garbage ?	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	well... depends. italian restaurants if you like italian food	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	jewish delis if you're jewish	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	sure, garbage bins almost always have some food in them. i wouldn't call this a "brand"	[03:07]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no alternative, if you're a rat. and right now most BTC users are more or less that.	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	well it also happens to not matter what the brand is among rats.	[03:07]
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mircea_popescu	the fact that all users are currently that makes zero difference on this score.	[03:08]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: to run with the analogy, you should wonder why most of the non-rats are ignoring the Italian restaurant in favour of the garbage dump.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	they are not.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	i seriously don't know anyone who's neither a noob or an idiot seriously using mtgox.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	sure, on ocasion. but fact remains most major players don't even have an account with them	[03:09]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: so why is the life (and death) of MtGox a subject of interest to you?	[03:10]
mircea_popescu	because a. they keep making dumbass statements that then get fed into the dumbass press which make btc look like a scam	[03:10]
mircea_popescu	and b. because they back all sorts of dubious shit and are generally part of the axis of evil.	[03:10]
asciilifeform	if it doesn't matter what the rats do or think, why would MtGox's effect on the rat media matter?	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	look, everywhere there's going to be pest control.	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	this is not because rats matter.	[03:11]
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mircea_popescu	it's precisely so they never do.	[03:11]
asciilifeform	"guard labour", yes	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	in a sense	[03:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.422 BTC [+]	[03:13]
asciilifeform	to continue with the analogy, virtually all of the serious BTC people are "rat catchers." In that much of their winnings derive from the "stupid money" at the table - MtGox, people who buy BTC there because the TV said to, etc.	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	"guard labour" is a void notion pretty much. it stems from the ultimately doomed attempt of the intellectually bankrupt left to justify it's nonsense.	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	and no. the rich are not rich because they've stiolen from the poor, or from the stupid.	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	how did you end up so immersed in red ideology anyway ?	[03:14]
asciilifeform	stolen is the wrong word, when people are shoving money at you voluntarily	[03:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [-]	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	it's never a case of anything vaguely related.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	money simply follows its own rules, and concentrates in adequate places.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	rthe poor are poor because they are failed human beings, not for any other reason.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	money can best be understood as the practical equivalent of the theological concept of "grace of god"	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	you don't have money... well it just means you suck.	[03:15]
asciilifeform	so why is the herd of morons pumping MtGox full of dollars such a bad thing?	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	that's not the bad thing.	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	mtgox doing such a horrible job of it is the bad thing.	[03:16]
asciilifeform	can't argue with that	[03:16]
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Namworld	I use MtGox. Albeit not to daytrade, it's too damn slow for that.	[03:16]
Namworld	To exit BTC, waiting to buy back in.	[03:17]
asciilifeform	(AFAIK there's nothing "red" about the concept of guard labour. it is just the banal fact that you have to hire rat-catchers if your planet has rats, and this costs you something.)	[03:17]
Namworld	Involves waiting a few weeks, and I don't trust other exchanges enough to deposit there.	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it is at the very least red because its only practical use is to try and give credence to this nonsense theory whereby inequality breeds stagnation through "waste".	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	whereas the only true measure of development is inequality,	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	and the only places not worth living into are those devoid of inequality.	[03:18]
asciilifeform	well yes, but all else being equal, you want the peasants to submit willingly, rather than hire people to pummel them (with gold that you could otherwise buy a second golden helicopter with.)	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	not the case.	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	the only practical way to educate the human being is through violence.	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	as long as you mean to enlighten you mean to beat.	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	this has nothing to do with protecting anything of yours.	[03:19]
asciilifeform	yes, but presumably the cost of administering more of a beating than is necessary for a full education is a net waste.	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	there is no such thing	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	education is purely a sexual process. what's this "more fucks than necessary" ?	[03:20]
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mircea_popescu	the effort of fucking a pregnant woman (for instance) is in no way wasted.	[03:21]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: fast-forward a decade. you run a kingdom. do you care to spend all of your time personally quashing revolts?	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	that's the motherfucking point of a kingdom.	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	people need a good answer as to why the fuck they're your subjects.	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	if this is too muich work for you time to retire.	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	trying to save on fucking ain't the way to go about marriage.	[03:22]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: seems like you were born a few 1000 years too late...	[03:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: Rome needs you	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	i just happen to be able to fit more on my bus than the current fashion	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	in rome i'd have probably driven them up the wall with my globalist ideas.	[03:24]
asciilifeform	I think Rome could learn; "BitDenarius..."	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	but think about it : the old guard of the soviet republic, them people in their leather jackets	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	they're a form of expression of that state.	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	save on that ?! what sense does it make!	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	that's what you do! it's like asking van gogh to save on paint.	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	tell hemingway "could you rewrite this ? all the m's and w's use so much ink... try writing with more i's instead"	[03:26]
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asciilifeform	actually, Stalin ramped up industry, the war machine, etc. by saving on the men in the leather jackets. (Most of the purging was of the old purging apparatus.) Resources are, unfortunately, finite.	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	this isn't even true.	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	what, leningrad was half purging apparatuses ?	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	he purged the very generals that won the war	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	late rome style.	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	and there's a reason the tinted windows tinted glasses douches in the us have infinite budgets atm. they are THE state.	[03:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well yes.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	or moreover this is what the state is, much like a supermodel is her tits and her waist	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	and her ankles and so forth	[03:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: and what, you would let the successful generals live? so they can take your throne?	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	you misunderstand the relationship between the powerful and power.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	i think the problem is something along these lines : young cock gets into night club, sees successful local mobster with the three girls dotting on him. figures this is a cool squarejaw, he's forcing these women to do such things.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	no, he's not. most of his time is spent trtying to keep such women at bay.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	these three are just there cause they;'re the least obnoxious of a sea of similar bitches in heat.	[03:29]
asciilifeform	consider Gen. Zhukov. Too popular, more or less un-purgeable. He had to be slowly demoted, transferred to the outskirts of the empire, finessed into oblivion. Or he would have gone for the throne, for sure.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	just so with power. the powerful don't actively seek it. it seeks them.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	nobody who endfs on the throne actually goes for the throne.	[03:30]
asciilifeform	yes, the throne finds you. everybody seems to say this.	[03:31]
asciilifeform	but in what sense is it true, if you plugged the four other contenders before it found you.	[03:31]
thestringpuller	;;eightball does game of thrones come on tonight?	[03:32]
gribble	About as likely as pigs flying.	[03:32]
thestringpuller	XD	[03:32]
thestringpuller	this thing is pretty good	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	i never met stalin or jukov, but i can take an oath stalin only fucked jukov because jukov pissed him off.	[03:32]
thestringpuller	;;seen jurov	[03:32]
gribble	jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: preferably resistant to sokal attack	[03:32]
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asciilifeform	yes, but he pissed him off by being the successful square-jaw in the nightclub.	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	the only alternative is jukov got sick of the shit and weanted out.	[03:33]
asciilifeform	note that Stalin couldn't even ride a horse (Zhukov rode in the victory parade in his stead.)	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	there's just no way stalin went "omg must protect tyhrone"	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	i don't credit this very womanly approach to history.	[03:33]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you seem to think that the power game has one level (sexual/personal charisma.) But it really has two: the charismatic men rise to the top, and the winner ends up being the fellow who is quicker on the draw.	[03:34]
mircea_popescu	listen	[03:34]
mircea_popescu	you don't really want to kill the contenders.	[03:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00068305 = 5.0546 BTC [-]	[03:35]
mircea_popescu	you'd rather burn the world and go have a drink with them.	[03:35]
mircea_popescu	you understand this ? nobody loves the wormy multitude enough to kill one good man over it.	[03:35]
asciilifeform	you don't plug your fellow top dogs for the wormy multitudes. you plug them so they don't - you. because there are only so many palaces/harems/etc. to go around.	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	nobody may be too strong a world, as insanity is a good bedfellow to exceptional performance	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	but still, generally speaking, nobody cares about the crowd.	[03:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.849 BTC [+]	[03:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.85 = 6.8 BTC [+]	[03:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1820 @ 0.00068305 = 1.2432 BTC [-]	[03:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.8549 = 4.2745 BTC [+]	[03:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.855 = 1.71 BTC [+]	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	the harem scarcity is bullshit. there's currently orders of magnitude more slaves looking for masters than masters willing to take slaves.	[03:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.855 = 2.565 BTC [+]	[03:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.859 = 4.295 BTC [+]	[03:37]
asciilifeform	the crowd is irrelevant, except that it does seem to have a tendency to throw its support behind one guy.	[03:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.86 = 1.72 BTC [+]	[03:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.876 = 5.256 BTC [+]	[03:37]
asciilifeform	the fate of the triumvirate, etc.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	the fate of the triumvirate was that pompey despised caesar.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	public don't enter into it one whit.	[03:38]
*	pgp2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[03:38]
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asciilifeform	the public (for some value of public) is who eventually swings the swords. and they would rather duke it out, with one guy coming out on top, rather than pressuring Pompey to be chums with Caesar.	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	i don;'t think they cared either way and in the end i don't think they fought for that either.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	people always fight for some unrelated nonsense.	[03:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: let's re-phrase the question a bit: who would you personally be content to share your throne with?	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	pretty much anyone that's not stupid.	[03:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.876 BTC [+]	[03:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: stable shared thrones is probably why Red China outlasted the USSR. but China is a bureaucratic clusterfuck rather than the virile fucktopia you envision.	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	okay, so who sat on the spartan throne ?	[03:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: point. but I'm not certain it would scale.	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	because why not ?	[03:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the ancients were a different kind of animal from us. they had notions of aristocracy/future-oriented behavour. vs. the tinted window crowd, for whom "I plug the other guy -> get double the gold" is the order of the day.	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	so basically the old folks are too cool for us to wear their shoes ?	[03:44]
mircea_popescu	heck of an argument you got thar.	[03:44]
asciilifeform	possibly.	[03:44]
mircea_popescu	i don't feel particularly lamer than them so.	[03:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: perhaps you're not. but the fellows behind the tinted windows, are.	[03:44]
mircea_popescu	"get double the gold" da fuck is that. to do what, carry it luis de funes style ?	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	get moar gold but can't throw a party cause there's nobody to invite.	[03:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: maybe the very definition of being an aristocrat is that you don't feel compelled to plug the other guys.	[03:45]
asciilifeform	see "mandate of heaven."	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	perhaps. it does come out a rather vulgar thing as reduced by our conversation.	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless, plugging the other guy has the virtue of keeping this putative aristocracy from complacency	[03:46]
asciilifeform	yes, but you do it for jollies/education-of-the-masses-by-the-cock, not because you feel that you have to.	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	perhaps you just do it because it becomes clear the guy's a fuckwit.	[03:47]
asciilifeform	you have a point in that analysis is vulgarizing. hence "the spartan speaks with his sword."	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	maybe go the whole japanese mile and have him cut his own guts out	[03:47]
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*	GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:49]
asciilifeform	Seppuku is a bad example: the men ordered to do so generally faced the alternative of being beheaded like commoners (not to be confused with voluntary seppuku.)	[03:50]
asciilifeform	a better example: Hassan-i Sabbah	[03:50]
asciilifeform	or the Chinese emperor (forget which) who would order his front ranks to behead themselves on the start of a battle	[03:50]
asciilifeform	terrifying the enemy	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, you ever seen l'avare ?	[03:51]
asciilifeform	nope	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	a, that's a pity. probably the best thing tyo come out of france	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	magnet:?xt=urn:btih:50c6b7a7b42d136d1dc1bc600220ba7c30e46f4d&dn=L'Avare+(1980)(L+de+Funes)DVDRip+NL+subs[Divx]NLtoppers&tr=udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80&tr=udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80&tr=udp://tracker.istole.it:6969&tr=udp://tracker.ccc.de:80	[03:51]
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asciilifeform	will look	[03:52]
asciilifeform	but yes, if you can successfully order the front ranks to self-behead, you've probably got the Mandate of Heaven.	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	anyway, not so sure sepukku is such a bad example. you have one chance to do yourself in as one of us now that you can't continue living as one of us.	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	i don't think that implication works.	[03:53]
asciilifeform	well it matters, of course, if the front rank is a thousand blue blood knights, or three bums you've collected from a boozing den.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	no, my objection is that form is no substitute for function.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	what people do is no proof of what people are, in this sense.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	getting a girl to suck your cock is no proof you're loved.	[03:54]
thestringpuller	wow	[03:55]
thestringpuller	did I really just come back to "getting a girl to suck your cock is no proof you're loved.	[03:55]
thestringpuller	"	[03:55]
asciilifeform	but if she sucks with art and enthusiasm, perhaps that's all the proof one could hope for. Think Kamikazes instead of Chinese imperial auto-beheaders.	[03:55]
thestringpuller	look at you mircea_popescu droppin' some love wisdom and shit on deez homies	[03:55]
asciilifeform	did you know that only the men with top marks in flight school were initially accepted into the Tokkotai (Kamikaze corps) ?	[03:55]
mircea_popescu	yes, i did.	[03:56]
asciilifeform	so were they sucking with love?	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	even so. the subtle structure of the world remains inacessible. even if the girl does it with enthusiasm and art.	[03:56]
asciilifeform	this subtle structure would appear to be hidden from king and slave alike.	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	kinda how the entire scholar profession developped.	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	the pretense of the "educated" to access it is as fraudulent in today's cathedral as it was in the druid circle obviously.	[03:58]
asciilifeform	the scholar profession (vs scholarship per se) is really just embroidery on the fabric of society, like the palace mural-painting profession.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	moreover, the original branch where we got lost is the proving.	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	there's no proof you have the mandate of heaven. nopr can ever be.	[03:59]
asciilifeform	true. and you do, until you don't.	[03:59]
asciilifeform	but I still think the abstraction is a useful one.	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	depends on the purpose.	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	global warming is a useful "abstraction" if you're using it to get a dumbass neighbour to stop smoking out your pool.	[04:00]
asciilifeform	reminds me of a tale where Chinese peasants, shortly after the red victory, calmed down upon hearing that the Emperor has returned.	[04:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 646 @ 0.00068305 = 0.4413 BTC [-]	[04:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 904 @ 0.00068262 = 0.6171 BTC [-]	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	this hidden-ness and the lack of systematic solutions are exactly why the "virile fucktopia" is the only solution.	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	whether it scales or not will decide how large a community can get, not whether it will be the norm or not.	[04:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I am interested in the question of virile fucktopias because I am interested in "the science of the possible." that is, "the is" vs. the idiot "the ought" that most scholarship tends to be about.	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	i imagined.	[04:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.0018 BTC [+]	[04:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.214 BTC [+]	[04:19]
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ThickAsThieves	just watched a few min of mtv video awards, wow that channel really fell apart huh?	[04:29]
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mircea_popescu	ya, sometime in 1998	[04:32]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.875 = 2.625 BTC [-]	[04:39]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.876 = 1.752 BTC [+]	[04:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00068262 = 13.5159 BTC [-]	[04:47]
*	XRPTrader2 (~XRPTrader@netblock-208-127-246-245.dslextreme.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:48]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1 @ 0.004 BTC [+]	[04:49]
mod6	$vwap s.dice	[04:50]
mpexbot	mod6: S.DICE 1 day: average: 0.00328089 high: 0.004 low: 0.00328066 volume: 3177 btc: 10.42337616 7 day: average: 0.00299325 high: 0.00409999 low: 0.0027 volume: 281669 btc: 843.10495586 30 day: average: 0.00348657 high: 0.005598 low: 0.0027 volume: 1860301 btc: 6486.07287801	[04:50]
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*	leviathanbaphz (leviathanb@101.103.153.147) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:51]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 25 @ 0.00067 = 0.0168 BTC [-]	[04:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 5 @ 0.00067 = 0.0034 BTC [-]	[04:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 50 @ 0.000675 = 0.0338 BTC [+]	[04:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 110 @ 0.000689 = 0.0758 BTC [+]	[04:54]
*	anarchy5 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[04:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.876 BTC [+]	[04:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.879 = 4.395 BTC [+]	[04:56]
*	unkown247 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[04:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.8796 = 4.398 BTC [+]	[04:57]
thestringpuller	!ticker m S.MPOE	[04:59]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00068262 / 0.00069523 / 0.0007217 (538731 shares, 374.54 BTC), 7D: 0.00063322 / 0.00069588 / 0.000735 (2714177 shares, 1,888.76 BTC), 30D: 0.00059218 / 0.00068885 / 0.00077505 (10960684 shares, 7,550.28 BTC)	[04:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 17 @ 0.8797 = 14.9549 BTC [+]	[05:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.899 = 4.495 BTC [+]	[05:01]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.89998 BTC [+]	[05:04]
thestringpuller	$vwap MPOE	[05:05]
mpexbot	thestringpuller: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00069523 high: 0.0007217 low: 0.00068262 volume: 538731 btc: 374.54423445 7 day: average: 0.00069589 high: 0.000735 low: 0.00063322 volume: 2714177 btc: 1888.76003405 30 day: average: 0.00068885 high: 0.00077505 low: 0.00059218 volume: 10960684 btc: 7550.28122564	[05:05]
thestringpuller	$bids MPOE	[05:05]
thestringpuller	$help	[05:05]
mpexbot	thestringpuller: (help [ ] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.	[05:05]
thestringpuller	$help all	[05:05]
mpexbot	thestringpuller: Error: There is no command "all".	[05:05]
thestringpuller	$help bids	[05:05]
mpexbot	thestringpuller: Error: There is no command "bids".	[05:05]
thestringpuller	$help bid	[05:06]
mpexbot	thestringpuller: Error: There is no command "bid".	[05:06]
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mircea_popescu	$depth s.mpoe	[05:12]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: S.MPOE Bids: ['5422 @ 0.00068649', '4896 @ 0.00068262', '9165 @ 0.00067807', '22800 @ 0.00067644', '32500 @ 0.00067461']	[05:12]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: Asks: ['12133 @ 0.00069049', '10000 @ 0.0007008', '3910 @ 0.00070089', '23100 @ 0.00070285', '1250 @ 0.00070788']	[05:12]
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thestringpuller	;;ticker	[05:33]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 95.40118, Best ask: 95.95998, Bid-ask spread: 0.55880, Last trade: 95.48019, 24 hour volume: 156646.71403264, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 97.19479	[05:33]
ThickAsThieves	no action on gox	[05:34]
ThickAsThieves	odd	[05:34]
ThickAsThieves	calm before the storm?	[05:34]
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mircea_popescu	calm before death.	[05:35]
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ThickAsThieves	i think it might be trading, but not reporting	[05:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [+]	[05:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [-]	[05:42]
ThickAsThieves	;;nethash	[05:42]
gribble	62414.5078831	[05:42]
ThickAsThieves	still falling	[05:42]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00345 = 0.0104 BTC [-]	[05:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00343 BTC [-]	[05:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00321 BTC [-]	[05:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00321 = 0.0096 BTC [-]	[05:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0032 BTC [-]	[05:45]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 41 @ 0.00312 = 0.1279 BTC [-]	[05:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 29 @ 0.2 = 5.8 BTC [+]	[05:50]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[12:33]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/	[12:33]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 13 14:15:50 2013	[12:33]
taub	updated by OneFixt	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	what is ?	[12:34]
MJR_	;;next	[12:34]
gribble	rising to 105-108 \| targets: 108, 110-113, 120, 130, 138-148, 160 \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 7:45 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| 1 hour, 49 minutes, and 43 seconds ago	[12:34]
MJR_	that	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	a a	[12:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 13 @ 0.89999 = 11.6999 BTC [+]	[12:37]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 5 @ 0.01 = 0.05 BTC [+]	[12:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2430 @ 0.00068597 = 1.6669 BTC [+]	[12:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11598 @ 0.0006933 = 8.0409 BTC [+]	[12:49]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.2139 = 2.4278 BTC [-]	[13:15]
*	alex12 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[13:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 20 @ 0.0018 = 0.036 BTC [+]	[13:23]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 45 @ 0.000689 = 0.031 BTC [+]	[13:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0006933 = 6.4477 BTC [+]	[13:29]
*	alex12 (alex12@host86-144-237-243.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 852 @ 0.0006933 = 0.5907 BTC [+]	[13:43]
*	Anduckkkkk has quit (Changing host)	[13:43]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1548 @ 0.0007037 = 1.0893 BTC [+]	[13:43]
*	copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:43]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.485 BTC [+]	[13:50]
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bitesak	;;ticker	[13:56]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 96.72000, Best ask: 97.77700, Bid-ask spread: 1.05700, Last trade: 96.72000, 24 hour volume: 142297.15764338, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 105.40000, 24 hour vwap: 95.29939	[13:56]
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error4733	;;eightball will btc reach 150$ this week ?	[14:06]
gribble	No.	[14:06]
error4733	;;eightball will btc reach 50$ this week ?	[14:08]
gribble	Obviously.	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, gribble's kinda better than max keiser.	[14:09]
error4733	hahaha	[14:09]
error4733	i wish have like 100btc for fun to play with gribble	[14:10]
error4733	asking every morning and buy/sell	[14:10]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [-]	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	so sell your car.	[14:14]
error4733	what can i do with 12btc ?	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	so do with 12 btc	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	you saidf you wanted 100 lol	[14:24]
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error4733	yes but if i sold my car i thinks i get 12bt haha	[14:25]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[14:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3052 @ 0.0007037 = 2.1477 BTC [+]	[14:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3948 @ 0.00070473 = 2.7823 BTC [+]	[14:28]
Framedragger	punkman is a rather choice pseudonym /OT	[14:29]
punkman	it is? I'm not a big fan	[14:30]
Framedragger	it simply sounds nice on one's tongue, is all	[14:31]
pgp	prediction for today?	[14:34]
taub	75-120 :/	[14:35]
pgp	overall trend, though?	[14:35]
taub	range	[14:35]
Framedragger	and i'm trying to trade goods over coin, it hurts the brain	[14:35]
pgp	;;bids 75	[14:36]
gribble	There are currently 36500.533 bitcoins demanded at or over 75.0 USD, worth 3094909.86845 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0053 seconds	[14:36]
pgp	;;asks 125	[14:36]
gribble	There are currently 35059.129 bitcoins offered at or under 125.0 USD, worth 3926457.98079 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 3.9841 seconds	[14:36]
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mircea_popescu	maybe idiots behave and we have a nice slope going to 130 till summer.	[14:36]
pgp	idiots - not in their nature to behave...	[14:37]
pgp	anyway - I think short-term trend is lower myself... need to retest bottom	[14:37]
pgp	;;eightball will we retest bottom?	[14:38]
gribble	I doubt it very much.	[14:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00069569 = 7.8613 BTC [-]	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	:p	[14:38]
pgp	;;next	[14:38]
gribble	watching for another drop to 90s, then rising to 105-108 \| targets: 108, 110-113, 120, 130, 138-148, 160 \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 10:47 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 51 minutes and 26 seconds ago	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	anyway. sure, retest bottom.	[14:38]
pgp	too bad puts are unavailable :-(	[14:39]
error4733	wtf is this :) ? free forecast ?	[14:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 15 @ 0.01 = 0.15 BTC [+]	[14:40]
pgp	but then again MPEX exchange membership for $1000 USD would be reward enough...	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	haha something tells me people cringing at $7500 membership a week ago are still not running to get it at 60% discount	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	just so they can cringe when it's $500k+ in a year or two.	[14:41]
taub	just 10 coins now?	[14:41]
pgp	I like it at 60%, but I like it more at 85% off	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	taub nope, 30.	[14:42]
taub	i'd take one for 10 maybe	[14:42]
taub	:P	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[14:42]
error4733	sold mine for 15 deal ?	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	i havce no idea why people represent this in terms of them buying something.	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	it's an exam. yet another of life's exams most fail to pass.	[14:43]
pgp	lol	[14:43]
error4733	350$ was a bargain i knew it hehe	[14:43]
pgp	I think that model is correct.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	when you go to get your degree you are basically paying a fee for this priviledge, equal to the value of your time you put into making the papers	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	(not the time spent learning, the time spent making the proofs that you'cve learned)	[14:44]
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pgp	non-trivial up front fee for exchange membership (which should be limited to non-idiots), but also low marginal costs for trading...	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	yeh.	[14:45]
pgp	idiots go to members to trade, where fees get marked up but no upfront fee - it's how it work irl	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	and hopefulyl they get some sense/advice in the package.	[14:45]
pgp	not that MPEX isn't real life...	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	making it better for everyone involved.	[14:46]
pgp	yep	[14:46]
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mircea_popescu	of course there's a lot of friction to the model, but	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	i think it shall prevail.	[14:54]
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pgp	well, it could be marketed better...	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[15:00]
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unbalanced_	Agreed, I think you're just one $15 home page template away from being at the top of everyone's lists when it comes to BTC assets.	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	there is a problem of growthspeed which is not too well understood, especially not by the average (which is to say business illiterate) entrepreneur these days.	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	take the case of the twelve year old as an illustrative example.	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	the surest way for her NOT being a successful fotomodel at 19 is if her tits grow too fast.	[15:03]
unbalanced_	True, getting growth right is non-trivial.	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	stretchmarks are actually worse than no growth at all.	[15:03]
unbalanced_	Aw I said true before I knew we were going to sextown.	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ everyone, as in, the people who took btc to 260 when i told them not to go over 130 ? why does one want this everyone muddling throuhg ?	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ haha, does sextown bother you ?	[15:04]
taub	mpex has the highest volume in bitcoin stocks already doesnt it?	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	last i looked, yes.	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	even so i am more worried by things such as sdice going to 75 then to 29 for no apparent reason	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	than with growing market share.	[15:05]
unbalanced_	I want to see bitcoin and sophisticated discussion of BTC assets get more widespread. This channel is the best their is but cuts off half the population.	[15:05]
Bugpowder	sdice valuation was betting volume related	[15:05]
taub	why would price movement worry u	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	Bugpowder maybe, yeah.	[15:05]
Bugpowder	at .0075 it was undervalued	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	taub because volatility and investment are roughly speaking inversely correlated.	[15:06]
Bugpowder	when 20,000BTC profit per month	[15:06]
taub	never heard that before mp	[15:06]
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mircea_popescu	let me illustrate this point, and i won't even use tits.	[15:06]
taub	i mean your job should be to run the exchange, not really worry about volatility	[15:06]
Bugpowder	S.DICE moves like a biotech	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	consider a town, and consider the mob moves in.	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	now, with the mob there comes sudden and striong social mobility, and also a bunch of murders.	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	in spite of it being mostly the mobsters who are getting murdered, it is the peasants who move out of the town, and the mobsters who move in.	[15:07]
unbalanced_	I respect the math/investment opinions, so I'm not going anywhere. I could just do without you playing to the mentality of teenage boys while you simultaneously express distaste for unsophisticated noobs (a high proportion of which are likely that same demographic).	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	huge volatility is exactly the same : in spite of the fact it mostly burns the speculators,	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	it is the investors it repels and the speculators it attracts.	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ the sexual barrier is there to repel the unthinking adults, not to cater to the teenagers.	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	grosso modo if you're spending any part of your day in a place where you can't peruse porn you don't belong here anyway.	[15:09]
unbalanced_	Anywhoo, I'm saying I agree that MPEX is the biggest and the best game in town. I'd like more people to know about it and I think the site is not just unattractive, it prevents people from taking it seriously.	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ why do you think that ?	[15:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00069476 = 2.0843 BTC [-]	[15:09]
pgp	the public should be going to coinbr - not MPEX	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	Bugpowder i think perhaps you have a good point there, it does move like a biotech	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	maybe i'm overstating my herd concerns as personal bias.	[15:10]
Bugpowder	Oh look a whale is betting again with a big address = positive clinical trial result	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	or fda comment or w/e.	[15:11]
Bugpowder	yah	[15:11]
unbalanced_	As a motivated options trader actively looking for a solution to trade options on Bitcoin, it took me about a year and umpteen visits to mpex.co to grok it and get over the 1995 layout and titties and harsh attitude.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	i was thinking more like irl mining	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	but it's all the same	[15:11]
unbalanced_	I totally respect the tech tho	[15:11]
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unbalanced_	It's elegant, and well done.	[15:11]
Bugpowder	It's revenue stream is very very top heavy	[15:11]
Bugpowder	just like a biotech	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	or a gold mine etc.	[15:12]
Bugpowder	oh gold… 1400?	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[15:12]
Bugpowder	hmm	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	this in spite of the utah mine collapse.	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	i think they;'ve sold the cyprus gold on the market.	[15:12]
Bugpowder	yah I saw that pic	[15:12]
unbalanced_	I hate seeing these articles now where people are discussing plans for trading options on bitcoin and MPEX isn't even mentioned. That's all I'm getting at, let's get them to notice what you've built here.	[15:12]
Bugpowder	where do you think the bottom?	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	probably the best tiem to buy gold this year	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ what articles be those ?	[15:13]
pgp	if it break 1350, look out below..	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	pgp it's funny but i think gold is doing a bitcoin.	[15:13]
pgp	lol	[15:14]
pgp	overtime, bticoin will get some of the money that people would otherwise invest in gold...	[15:15]
pgp	obviously	[15:15]
jcpham	fed shorting gold	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	i think over time it will get most.	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	anyway, unbalanced_, people (like for instance MtGox) were discussing plans to trade options on bitcoins back this time in 2011, and mpex wasn't even mentioned.	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	if it were something anyone could do i wouldn't even have bothered doing it myself.	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	the barrier to entry however is a lot higher than getting a bunch of people talking.	[15:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.41 BTC [+]	[15:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.36500015 = 1.095 BTC [+]	[15:19]
unbalanced_	mircea_popescu: finally found a link: http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/04/11/coinsetter-the-newest-bitcoin-forex-seeks-a-niche-in-the-wild-market/	[15:19]
unbalanced_	"The New-York based startup seeks to bring to market advanced trading options that don’t exist in the current BTC market."	[15:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.36500014 = 0.73 BTC [-]	[15:20]
ezdiy	options part is super easy	[15:20]
ezdiy	margin, on the other hand is super hard	[15:20]
unbalanced_	Coinsetter may never pull it off, they could be full of fail.	[15:20]
ezdiy	because you need cover collateral for slippage	[15:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [+]	[15:20]
ezdiy	margin calls are not 100%	[15:20]
unbalanced_	Meanwhile I think we'd all benefit from more liquidity and participants in MPEX.	[15:20]
ezdiy	how do i margin trade on mpex?	[15:21]
taub	mpex needs more users so it can start offering more competitive option prices	[15:21]
unbalanced_	I just want to broaden the base of MPEX users, I don't mean to be trollin'.	[15:21]
taub	right now it's lacking stupid investors	[15:21]
taub	thats why mp has to set option prices so high	[15:21]
ezdiy	anyone can issue options	[15:22]
taub	yea but nobody really bothers	[15:22]
ezdiy	as long they have capital to back it	[15:22]
taub	except mp	[15:22]
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taub	and partly because of lack of users i'd imagine	[15:22]
ezdiy	taub: anyone except the exchange should issue options i think :)	[15:22]
ezdiy	in the long run, i think traditional forex instruments are not really aplicable to bitcoin	[15:23]
pgp	a lot of talk from coinsetter	[15:23]
ezdiy	and some new ones will have to be invented	[15:24]
jcpham	how will it not just turn into a bucket shop	[15:24]
jcpham	especially with the margin trading	[15:24]
ezdiy	yeah	[15:24]
jcpham	wouldn't that be the most profitable enterprise?	[15:24]
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ezdiy	bucket shop is legit	[15:24]
ezdiy	IF youre transparent	[15:24]
pgp	the thing about the higher progile companies in america is that they need to be mindful of likely regulation.	[15:24]
ezdiy	if you have "magical unicorn engine"	[15:24]
ezdiy	thats totally not transparent	[15:25]
jcpham	you have a good point	[15:25]
pgp	coinsetter puts out all these press relesses about margin lending, which by the way, isn't rocket science...	[15:25]
ezdiy	some people think bucket shops are bad because it has no impact on actual market	[15:25]
ezdiy	wrong	[15:25]
ezdiy	people will try to manipulate price on mtgox	[15:25]
ezdiy	in favor of their option bets :)	[15:25]
pgp	but I'm not sure how they'll get around usuary laws in US...	[15:25]
taub	i'm not sure if it IS a buckt shop	[15:25]
taub	or just an actual exchange	[15:26]
pgp	max rate you can charge is 24%	[15:26]
pgp	margin goes for 10x that on bitfinex	[15:26]
taub	real trading runs on margin as well and isn't a bucketshop	[15:26]
ezdiy	taub: bucket shop means youre using spot price of different exchange than your own	[15:26]
jcpham	i kinda think if your position is large enough (on margin) and coinsetter can take advantage of it, it will	[15:26]
taub	i konw ezdiy	[15:26]
taub	is that what coinsetter wants to do?	[15:26]
ezdiy	no idea	[15:26]
jcpham	but mebbe thasa goos thing	[15:26]
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ezdiy	there are strong laws in US against bucket shops	[15:26]
ezdiy	so i doubt it	[15:27]
ezdiy	they'll most likely run full exchange	[15:27]
taub	ah	[15:27]
taub	I thought this was about coinsetter ;)	[15:27]
ezdiy	(mpex is actually a bucket shop btw :)	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ well... so silicon angle doesn't do research. i had no idea they existed.	[15:27]
jcpham	hahaha	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	that piece looks like it cost a hundred bux. im not quite into giving obscure venues money for this "service" yet.	[15:27]
ezdiy	though i think bucket shops are legit in .ro so no issue here	[15:27]
pgp	running a full exchange in US is a risky proposition, in my view	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	how do i margin trade on mpex? << you apply for it.	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	you get it if you are high volume and trustworthy.	[15:28]
pgp	as well as acting as a broker to public	[15:28]
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jcpham	free pokemon credits for everyone!	[15:28]
ezdiy	mircea_popescu: does not sound too open	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	bucket shop is legit << mno.	[15:28]
ezdiy	mircea_popescu: but i guess you have a liquidity problem so you cant force liquidate positions	[15:29]
ezdiy	due to enormous slippage	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	pgp people like coinsetter are part of a lengthy tradition of dunning-kruger. the controlling example is one kludge, an out of work bank clerk who figured himself a banker	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	lost the house.	[15:29]
ezdiy	either way, you dont need trust to margin trade	[15:29]
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ezdiy	just enough liquidity to have working margin calls	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	ezdiy no, it's designed specifically to keep people like you out actually.	[15:30]
ezdiy	huh?	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	you read me.	[15:30]
pgp	ezdiy: yes	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	clueless internet warriors who have definitive answers to things they read on wikipedia. i don't want to empower you folks.	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	you cock things up.	[15:31]
ezdiy	hehe	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	go get in the wot, spend a year or more making sense, trade many many thousands of btc on mpex	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	then maybe i'll margin you.	[15:31]
ezdiy	i see	[15:32]
jcpham	http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/opinion/sunday/the-rise-of-the-new-groupthink.html	[15:32]
ezdiy	basically margin trading is loans	[15:32]
jcpham	loans are basically gifts	[15:32]
ezdiy	in here because there is no other way	[15:32]
jcpham	in bitcoinland	[15:32]
ezdiy	jcpham: supposedly not if you wot	[15:32]
jcpham	bullshit	[15:32]
jcpham	wot gets gamed also	[15:33]
jcpham	the people that borrow btc time and time again fail to repay	[15:33]
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jcpham	regardless of reputation	[15:33]
ezdiy	well, apparently past reputation guarantees future reputation according to mircea_popescu	[15:33]
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jcpham	mircea_popescu operates by his own made-up rules	[15:34]
jcpham	everyone is living in walled castles at this point	[15:34]
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jcpham	don't loan your coins though for btc-only	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	ezdiy past reputation is the way to go.	[15:35]
Bugpowder	don't loan your coins	[15:35]
jcpham	you may never see it again. insert fiat clause	[15:35]
Bugpowder	ever ever ever	[15:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00070473 = 3.7351 BTC [+]	[15:37]
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mircea_popescu	jcpham you know for the record i've not yet had problems with margined ppl.	[15:38]
jcpham	probably becuase your elitist attitude keeps away the trash?	[15:39]
jcpham	which is good	[15:39]
ezdiy	white trash means liquidity	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	does not.	[15:40]
ezdiy	look at mtgox compared to mpex	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	this is not fast food. nobody wants the poor.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason the concept of "underbanked" exists.	[15:40]
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jcpham	i bet vetting people with a large fee to play has been successful	[15:41]
ezdiy	mircea_popescu: so let me get this straight	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	jcpham if you only deal with peopel who understand the value of reputation you're more likely to survive for sure.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	consider the situation of a supermarket. if you open one in africa you will have a bunch of shoplifters.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	if you open one in manhattan nobody's going to bother.	[15:41]
jcpham	did you just call the internet africa?	[15:42]
ezdiy	mircea_popescu: if someone gets you 1000BTC, and you'll hold it as a guarantee	[15:42]
jcpham	or is the bitcoin community africa?	[15:42]
ezdiy	mircea_popescu: then hes trusted?	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	jcpham the internet largely is africa, yes.	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	ezdiy nope.	[15:42]
jcpham	i can understand the referece	[15:42]
jcpham	lots of aids	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	lol	[15:42]
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Bugpowder	mircea_popescu's margin loans are very different than most BTC loans though, in that it is an accounting that is kept on servers he controls. Thus, the receiver has little opportunity to steal the coins and walk. If you loan coins and that hits the receiver's personal wallet.dat, you are just praying they come back.	[15:43]
ezdiy	mircea_popescu: true, in case of 1KBTC i'd have my own doubts regarding your put-call parity :)	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	this is true, mpex margin is quite different from most loan ops.	[15:43]
jcpham	seems like the funds would stay internal	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	ezdiy you know, there have been 10k btc single orders on mpex.	[15:44]
jcpham	anyway to "steal them"	[15:44]
jcpham	blockchain steal?	[15:44]
jcpham	it isn't stolen until the blockchain says fuck you	[15:44]
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unbalanced_	mircea_popescu: I concede. It's rude of me to walk into your house and criticize your wallpaper and the art on the walls.	[15:44]
unbalanced_	I just wanted MPEX to be more popular, but I get now that a) that	[15:44]
unbalanced_	is not necessarily a good thing, and	[15:44]
unbalanced_	b) it's growing exactly as fast as you want it to. If you want it to grow faster or slower, you know what to do better than I.	[15:44]
unbalanced_	New topic: the bot's option pricing algo. Is that a secret? Does it have to be?	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced_ im not offended or anything	[15:45]
Bugpowder	Rule 23	[15:45]
Bugpowder	http://mpex.co/faq.html#23	[15:45]
jcpham	nah unbalanced_ he likes criticism	[15:45]
jcpham	loves it	[15:45]
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mircea_popescu	i don't mind it, especialyl if it makes sense.	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	anyway. the bot's pricing algo is proprietary, yes. i don't see why it wouldn't be.	[15:46]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10417 @ 0.0006988 = 7.2794 BTC [-]	[15:46]
ezdiy	transparency ftw	[15:46]
ezdiy	hello bitcoinica :)	[15:46]
unbalanced_	Did the algo actually change mid-month, or did the spreads just widen due to volatility, still using the existing algo?	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	the algo didn't change.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	the bot however went berserk basically.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	mostly the drop triggered what looks more like safety than actual pricing assumptions	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i'd love to stay and chat but i'm due in some meetings. we continue later.	[15:48]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 4 @ 1.2139 = 4.8556 BTC [-]	[16:03]
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deadweasel_work	;;next	[16:03]
gribble	watching for another drop to low 90s, then re-evaluating ask depth and targets \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 10:47 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 20 seconds ago	[16:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58 @ 0.00070473 = 0.0409 BTC [+]	[16:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.485 = 1.455 BTC [+]	[16:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.00070788 = 0.8849 BTC [+]	[16:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4134 @ 0.00070848 = 2.9289 BTC [+]	[16:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5066 @ 0.00071 = 3.5969 BTC [+]	[16:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 36 @ 0.485 = 17.46 BTC [+]	[16:29]
lippoper1	;;ticker	[16:30]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 96.97801, Best ask: 96.99900, Bid-ask spread: 0.02099, Last trade: 96.97801, 24 hour volume: 139162.02515050, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.77353	[16:30]
lippoper1	;;asks 0	[16:30]
gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 0.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 91.0591 seconds	[16:30]
lippoper1	;;bids 0	[16:30]
gribble	There are currently 43723736 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 14483375.3202 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 96.4113 seconds	[16:30]
lippoper1	;;asks 9999999	[16:30]
gribble	There are currently 129652.19 bitcoins offered at or under 9999999.0 USD, worth 167037264.711 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 117.6040 seconds	[16:30]
lippoper1	demand seems an all time high	[16:31]
lippoper1	?	[16:31]
lippoper1	i kid :-)	[16:32]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 451 @ 0.01 = 4.51 BTC [+]	[16:32]
lippoper1	going up some	[16:33]
lippoper1	;;ticker	[16:33]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 97.05008, Best ask: 97.59899, Bid-ask spread: 0.54891, Last trade: 97.05007, 24 hour volume: 139241.84612092, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.77476	[16:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5542 @ 0.00070751 = 3.921 BTC [-]	[16:34]
jcpham	http://www.247btc.com/bitcoins/134/how-i-would-manipulate-the-bitcoin-exchange-market-and-how-a-discrete-double-auction-could-stop-me/	[16:34]
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MJR_	bitcoinity looks prettier than usual	[16:37]
MJR_	is that just a simple moving average or a standard deviation?	[16:37]
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MJR_	i guess its min/max value	[16:40]
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lippoper1	yeah, it's the bid/ask range	[16:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 5 @ 1.2139 = 6.0695 BTC [-]	[16:46]
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jcpham	http://scarcecapital.com/hft/about.html	[16:56]
unbalanced_	jcpham, anyone: Do you think a double auction exchnage as in the 247btc.com link above would get traction?	[16:57]
jcpham	based on what has been hapopening at gox	[16:57]
jcpham	some form of implementation might get a lot of traction	[16:57]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.845 BTC [+]	[17:00]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.855 = 7.695 BTC [+]	[17:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00071 = 3.337 BTC [+]	[17:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.855 BTC [+]	[17:05]
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taub	we believe that not only does high frequency trading not contribute to that purpose, but the way exchanges currently operate leaves the doors open for major manipulation.	[17:05]
taub	that's bs	[17:05]
taub	hft does contribute, but you can't even hft on any bitcoin exchaneg so i dont know why people keep bitching	[17:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1150 @ 0.00071 = 0.8165 BTC [+]	[17:09]
Scrat	taub: what made me laugh is that in that "we are mtgox" reddit, a lot of people were like "please block the hft bots"	[17:10]
Scrat	so many clueless idiots	[17:10]
Scrat	apaprently hft is 0.1 trade per second with 400 ms gateway latency now	[17:10]
taub	yea...	[17:11]
ThickAsThieves	I think it's just semantics to most	[17:11]
troc	is it because they read http://www.nanex.net/Research/CQSCap/CQSCap.html ?	[17:11]
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ThickAsThieves	generally against bots of any kind	[17:11]
ThickAsThieves	the actual frequency isn't the issue	[17:11]
Scrat	its pretty evident by now that the gox "engine" does a linear scan of all orders (lol) and that takes around a second	[17:11]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36500018 BTC [+]	[17:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.366 BTC [+]	[17:26]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 1.66 = 8.3 BTC [-]	[17:44]
pgp	awfully quiet in here... and at mtgox...	[17:46]
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ThickAsThieves	waiting	[17:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00071 = 2.556 BTC [+]	[17:56]
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BitHub	!help	[18:11]
assbot	List of commands:	[18:11]
assbot	!ticker (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}	[18:11]
assbot	!last (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}	[18:11]
assbot	!mp (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)	[18:11]
assbot	!rules (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}	[18:11]
assbot	!exchanges (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}	[18:11]
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BitHub	!exchanges	[18:11]
taub	http://images.4chan.org/pol/src/1366037118988.png :D	[18:11]
taub	#nohomo	[18:11]
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BitHub	!ticker	[18:11]
assbot	Ah, your hair. Your hair is soft. It's like a girl's. Now how do you get it that way?	[18:12]
BitHub	!mpex	[18:12]
BitHub	!ticker mpex	[18:12]
assbot	Your actions are useless.	[18:12]
Scrat	^	[18:12]
BitHub	pos	[18:12]
BitHub	cant anyone just do a simple readable asset ticker?	[18:13]
BitHub	i'll pay	[18:13]
Namworld	?	[18:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 10 @ 0.2 = 2 BTC [+]	[18:14]
Namworld	I have my spreadsheet tools, should be able to fetch all data you need	[18:15]
Namworld	although the ticket thing ain't that hard to do	[18:15]
Namworld	!ticker MPEX S.DICE	[18:15]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00328066 / 0.00328088 / 0.004 (3177 shares, 10.42 BTC), 7D: 0.0027 / 0.00299526 / 0.00409999 (274814 shares, 823.14 BTC), 30D: 0.0027 / 0.00345678 / 0.005598 (1827298 shares, 6,316.58 BTC)	[18:15]
BitHub	thanks nam	[18:15]
BitHub	i'll check it out	[18:15]
Namworld	!ticker HAVELOCK SDICE	[18:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.36500009 / 0.3928556 / 0.42700000 (18 shares, 7.07140088 BTC), 7D: 0.12500000 / 0.31864108 / 0.42700000 (2182 shares, 695.27483395 BTC), 30D: 0.12500000 / 0.37594388 / 0.56789999 (7613 shares, 2862.06078669 BTC)	[18:16]
Namworld	Easy, just a bit long to use	[18:16]
BitHub	why cant i just type !ticker Mpex and get a list of all the assets	[18:16]
Namworld	because it would put lots of stuff in the chat	[18:16]
troc	because that only works for mpex, others could cause a flood ?	[18:16]
Namworld	Use https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0	[18:16]
BitHub	okey thanks	[18:16]
BitHub	i don't know why its not featured in #bitcoin-market but okey	[18:17]
Namworld	You can use the formulas to fetch data using the APIs of various exchanges	[18:17]
Namworld	on a google spreadsheet	[18:17]
BitHub	i need to check your site, its been a while :)	[18:17]
Namworld	my site? Which one?	[18:18]
BitHub	with teh alarm	[18:18]
Namworld	http://namcdn.com/btcalarm/	[18:18]
BitHub	feel like making one for me for .5btc? heh	[18:23]
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BitHub	bbs	[18:24]
MJR_	i thought kakobrekla had a ticker service already?	[18:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.88 = 8.8 BTC [+]	[18:26]
error4733	;;ticker m s.dice	[18:26]
gribble	(ticker [--bid\|--ask\|--last\|--high\|--low\|--avg\|--vol] [--currency XXX]) -- Return pretty-printed mtgox ticker. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure that the three letter code you enter is a valid (1 more message)	[18:26]
error4733	!ticker m s.dice	[18:26]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00328066 / 0.00328088 / 0.004 (3177 shares, 10.42 BTC), 7D: 0.0027 / 0.00299526 / 0.00409999 (274814 shares, 823.14 BTC), 30D: 0.0027 / 0.00345678 / 0.005598 (1827298 shares, 6,316.58 BTC)	[18:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.89998 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.2139 BTC [-]	[18:28]
BitHub	heh	[18:28]
BitHub	where mjr_	[18:28]
BitHub	i checked the website but nothing	[18:28]
MJR_	not sure, that's what someone recommended to me before	[18:28]
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BitHub	i need to track my portfolio	[18:28]
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ThickAsThieves	;;nethash	[18:35]
gribble	63165.9465183	[18:35]
ThickAsThieves	;;estimate	[18:35]
gribble	Next difficulty estimate \| 8898397.1525 based on data since last change \| 8824046.14459 based on data for last three days	[18:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00070521 = 1.1283 BTC [-]	[18:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.10179 BTC [+]	[18:43]
Namworld	[11:28] i need to track my portfolio	[18:43]
Namworld	Use my darn tools	[18:43]
BitHub	hehe okey	[18:44]
BitHub	link	[18:44]
BitHub	i'll send a tip	[18:44]
Namworld	I linked already	[18:44]
BitHub	ahh check going now	[18:44]
Namworld	[11:16] Use https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0	[18:44]
BitHub	oh yeah i was just there	[18:44]
Namworld	Makes something like this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AvwwyRGyc1WgdGFKVlAtZVAzOGNqS1Brd05MUlFlT2c	[18:45]
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Namworld	BitFunder needs manual updating tho, no API yet	[18:45]
Namworld	and MPEx sharecount too, as there's no API for accounts	[18:45]
Namworld	But prices for MPEx can update live at least	[18:46]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.88 = 2.64 BTC [-]	[18:46]
Namworld	Other than that, it can track BTCT.co, Havelock, BTC address balances	[18:46]
Namworld	and also convert the whole BTC value to USD using MtGox weighted average	[18:47]
BitHub	yeah nam i wanted bf as well :(	[18:47]
Namworld	or whatever	[18:47]
Namworld	yeah, they should have an API soon	[18:47]
Namworld	But anyway, for now it still works nicely for most of a portfolio	[18:47]
BitHub	that's very cool man	[18:47]
BitHub	btc-bond is your asset yeh?	[18:47]
Namworld	yeah	[18:48]
pgp	volume in mkt is gone... REALLY quiet...	[18:49]
Namworld	yeah	[18:49]
Namworld	demand is gone... but most don't want to sell yet	[18:49]
Namworld	since price doesn't go up, I expect demand from speculators to drop and ones still holding to start selling as prices slowly go down	[18:50]
Namworld	and reach a bottom in a few months	[18:50]
BitHub	going to play with this nam, thanks i'll send you a tip when finished	[18:50]
Namworld	okay	[18:50]
pgp	yeah...	[18:50]
pgp	not a good sign... definately further to go down...	[18:51]
Bugpowder	Namworld: Yep... prices will hover for a few more days	[18:51]
Namworld	I could share the spreadsheet so you have make a copy, BitHub	[18:51]
Bugpowder	but as people lose hope... down it goes	[18:51]
Bugpowder	just like last time	[18:51]
Bugpowder	Bottom at $15-30	[18:51]
pgp	prolly	[18:51]
Namworld	I say 10-30 personally	[18:51]
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Bugpowder	I don't see it getting under 15	[18:52]
Namworld	10 with a rebound possibly	[18:52]
Namworld	for a short while	[18:52]
Bugpowder	it was really stable at 15 for a long time	[18:52]
Namworld	yeah	[18:52]
Scrat	~40 for me, but wtf do I know	[18:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.0007054 = 0.8818 BTC [+]	[18:52]
Namworld	I'm sad I had most of my BTC value in my portfolio couldn't sell all at the top	[18:52]
Bugpowder	;;calc 266/33*2	[18:52]
gribble	16.1212121212	[18:52]
Namworld	still sold 100 at 250	[18:52]
Namworld	just before crash	[18:52]
pgp	$32-$35 imo	[18:52]
Namworld	and 100 more at $80 just after MtGox reopened	[18:53]
Bugpowder	top to bottom of the last crash, scaled for this crash says $16.12 is the bottom.	[18:53]
Namworld	I didn't manage to grab back some low BTCs in the 60s before it bounced back	[18:53]
Namworld	I wanted to resell at 100	[18:53]
Namworld	Well now I'm sitting out for a few weeks	[18:53]
Bugpowder	Gold down to $1355.	[18:53]
Namworld	O.o	[18:54]
pgp	fuck	[18:54]
Namworld	wow, that goes down fast...	[18:54]
Bugpowder	Silver $23	[18:54]
Namworld	...	[18:54]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.94 BTC [+]	[18:55]
Bugpowder	Sold my sprint on the pop this morning @ 7.29	[18:55]
pgp	1376 right now	[18:55]
Bugpowder	was in at 2.53 on that one	[18:55]
Bugpowder	I just can't think of any asset class that is undervalued right now	[18:55]
pgp	i agree	[18:55]
Bugpowder	maybe european stocks and some US realestate	[18:55]
pgp	FED bubble	[18:55]
pgp	it will end in tears	[18:56]
Bugpowder	Krugman bubble	[18:56]
Bugpowder	It will pop and Krugman will say we didn't print enough	[18:56]
pgp	krugman is a douche bag	[18:56]
pgp	you know, i always thought it strange that as a journalist/writer, he won the nobel for economics, which is almost exclusively awarded to academic types...	[18:57]
pgp	so now he banks on that credential from his left wing bully pulpit and it annoys the crap out of me...	[18:58]
Bugpowder	http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=VGTSX+Interactive#symbol=vgtsx;range=20070518,20130415;compare=%5Egspc;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;	[18:59]
Bugpowder	VGTSX looks undervalued relative to SPY	[19:00]
pgp	from that chart, perhaps	[19:00]
pgp	problem is world is slowing down, but apparently US is doing fine...	[19:01]
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MJR_	yeah krugman is a retard	[19:02]
MJR_	The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in "Metcalfe's law"–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax	[19:02]
MJR_	machine's.	[19:02]
MJR_	^^^why he doesn't get bitcoin	[19:03]
MJR_	As the rate of technological change in computing slows, the number of jobs for IT specialists will decelerate, then actually turn down; ten years from now, the phrase information economy will sound silly.	[19:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.38579 = 1.1574 BTC [+]	[19:05]
Namworld	Before, people bought locally. Now, they buy more on the web. It shifted customers/services around. And I think mostly consolidated a few large companies, but that's just an impression I have. I'd need data to back it =/	[19:06]
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taub	Krugman doesn't know shit, he still belives the broken window fallacy	[19:06]
MJR_	yes	[19:06]
taub	so I'm happy he is against bitcoin	[19:06]
MJR_	he hasn't actually done anything much of value...he hasn't produced much	[19:06]
taub	he's one of those types who openly says war is good for the economy etc	[19:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.47 BTC [-]	[19:08]
MJR_	well...we do have north korea just begging for it	[19:12]
MJR_	and there is always iran	[19:12]
MJR_	who doesn't admit that afghanistan is getting old...	[19:12]
MJR_	JK	[19:12]
BitHub	i think alot of people still buy locally	[19:13]
BitHub	but i've noticed when there's a huge dip they'll hit the websites straight away because its quicker	[19:13]
BitHub	better off throwing yourself into the mainstream and charging 20% comissions	[19:13]
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deadweasel_work	;;ticker	[19:16]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 95.38000, Best ask: 95.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.11999, Last trade: 95.38000, 24 hour volume: 140456.92501169, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.65965	[19:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.0007054 = 3.0332 BTC [+]	[19:16]
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*	MJR_ is now known as SterlingArcher	[19:23]
SterlingArcher	hi	[19:23]
*	SterlingArcher is now known as MJR_	[19:24]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.888 = 2.664 BTC [+]	[19:29]
deadweasel_work	http://www.change.org/petitions/u-s-congress-shut-down-guantanamo-bay-prison-once-and-for-all-2	[19:29]
deadweasel_work	pls sign	[19:29]
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bitesak	;;ticker	[19:32]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 95.22101, Best ask: 95.92000, Bid-ask spread: 0.69899, Last trade: 95.92000, 24 hour volume: 140774.22839093, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.64984	[19:32]
pgp	mt gox is like watching paint dry...	[19:32]
bitesak	;;next	[19:32]
gribble	watching for another drop to low 90s, then re-evaluating ask depth and targets \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 10:47 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 30 seconds ago	[19:32]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 17 @ 0.888 = 15.096 BTC [+]	[19:33]
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pgp	finally, a little movement	[19:50]
Bugpowder	shit	[19:51]
*	ColinT (~colintull@71-17-100-200.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:51]
jborkl	I did it, dont get too excited	[19:51]
Bugpowder	it is going to sell off before I can dump the rest of my coins.	[19:51]
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pgp	yep	[19:51]
jborkl	beat you to it	[19:51]
pgp	sell, sell, sell!	[19:51]
pgp	markets taken a beating, too	[19:52]
pgp	LONG overdue selloff in US equity markets..	[19:54]
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jborkl	wow -gold down to 1300's	[19:55]
jborkl	silver 23	[19:55]
jborkl	lol, usagi silver etf	[19:55]
ll	!t h him	[19:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.42200000 / 1.74224 / 1.95000000 (50 shares, 87.11200000 BTC), 7D: 0.75000001 / 1.43097842 / 1.95000000 (329 shares, 470.79190011 BTC), 30D: 0.75000001 / 1.69665608 / 2.08000000 (822 shares, 1394.65130041 BTC)	[19:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7489 @ 0.0007054 = 5.2827 BTC [+]	[20:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.48 BTC [+]	[20:23]
deadweasel_work	;;nodes	[20:24]
gribble	Error: "nodes" is not a valid command.	[20:24]
deadweasel_work	gribble, go learn something new.	[20:24]
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deadweasel_work	;;ticker	[20:26]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 93.97329, Best ask: 94.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02671, Last trade: 94.00000, 24 hour volume: 143971.50098586, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.53419	[20:26]
deadweasel_work	;;bids 99	[20:27]
gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins demanded at or over 99.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0042 seconds	[20:27]
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Bugpowder	time to crash the market	[20:30]
jborkl	do it	[20:33]
pgp	I want cheap coin!	[20:33]
Bugpowder	i did my best	[20:33]
jborkl	it is breaking support and the chart looks sickly	[20:33]
pgp	agreed.. rolling over...	[20:34]
splnkr	just spread around this disinformative article http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/opinion/krugman-the-antisocial-network.html	[20:34]
Bugpowder	someone else needs to take over from here	[20:34]
Bugpowder	I am totally out of coins.	[20:34]
jborkl	if we get below 85 then I expect lower from here	[20:34]
pgp	once 92 drops it'll fall quickly to 80's	[20:35]
jborkl	massive dumping trades	[20:35]
jborkl	Bugpowder was that you?	[20:35]
Namworld	you had ~ 4000 BTC?	[20:35]
Bugpowder	no comment	[20:36]
jborkl	Lol, just let me know right before you rebuy	[20:36]
Bugpowder	I was part of it	[20:36]
Bugpowder	not all of it	[20:36]
Bugpowder	oh shit	[20:36]
Namworld	I'm jelly now	[20:37]
Bugpowder	ask wall at 92 now	[20:37]
topace	92 wall all gone	[20:37]
Namworld	If I had my whole porftolio value in BTC available to sell at 250	[20:37]
Namworld	I'd have over 150k USD =/	[20:37]
jcpham	no comment	[20:37]
jcpham	also $250 not enough	[20:38]
Namworld	yes, 250 is enough	[20:38]
pgp	here we go!	[20:38]
jcpham	i may have bought some $180 coins during that fiasco	[20:38]
jcpham	and i may have sold them at $260	[20:38]
jcpham	can't confirm	[20:39]
Scrat	<90	[20:39]
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jborkl	going going gone..	[20:40]
pgp	85.44 is 24h low	[20:40]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker	[20:40]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 89.01167, Best ask: 89.16000, Bid-ask spread: 0.14833, Last trade: 89.16000, 24 hour volume: 155047.46636155, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.29122	[20:40]
topace	so weird, i always expect monday the price to go up based on our volume on canadianbitcoins	[20:41]
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pgp	wtf?	[20:47]
*	Simon__ (~simon@173-13-154-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:47]
Chilca	Hi Simon__	[20:48]
Simon__	hi	[20:48]
pgp	lot's of spoofing going in this market, methinks...	[20:48]
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jborkl	have you seen how the mpex bot is pricing put/call	[20:49]
pgp	puts > 1BTC you mean?	[20:50]
pgp	caveat emptor!	[20:50]
Bugpowder	calls > 1BTC	[20:51]
Bugpowder	even worse!	[20:51]
jborkl	95 c .44 95 put 2.36	[20:51]
*	pizzaman1337 wishes the mpexbot would chill out already	[20:51]
pgp	not all calls, only some... ALL puts > 1	[20:51]
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pgp	infinite vol	[20:52]
Bugpowder	bot doesn't want customers	[20:53]
pgp	bond holders want too high of a return	[20:53]
pgp	bot licking wounds...	[20:54]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.455 = 0.91 BTC [-]	[20:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.45 = 0.9 BTC [-]	[20:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.45 BTC [-]	[20:56]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.8725 = 3.49 BTC [-]	[20:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.865 = 5.19 BTC [-]	[20:59]
*	Chilca (~Chilca@173-13-154-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00070521 = 4.0902 BTC [-]	[20:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.865 BTC [-]	[20:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8602 BTC [-]	[20:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8602 BTC [-]	[20:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.86 = 4.3 BTC [-]	[20:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.857 = 1.714 BTC [-]	[20:59]
*	Simon__ (~simon@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:01]
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nbvmcvbn	hi	[21:07]
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nbvmcvbn	anyone here?	[21:07]
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deadweasel_work	no	[21:08]
Scrat	no	[21:08]
deadweasel_work	oh, he quit already	[21:08]
deadweasel_work	no time to even be a jerk	[21:09]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00070521 = 1.5162 BTC [-]	[21:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4047 @ 0.0006988 = 2.828 BTC [-]	[21:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00428 BTC [+]	[21:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 7 @ 0.00428 = 0.03 BTC [+]	[21:12]
*	micky_ (~micky@173-13-154-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.888 = 8.88 BTC [+]	[21:13]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.88998 BTC [+]	[21:13]
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bitesak	;;ticker	[21:16]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 90.12101, Best ask: 90.88899, Bid-ask spread: 0.76798, Last trade: 90.88900, 24 hour volume: 160856.43420830, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.03216	[21:16]
bitesak	;;next	[21:16]
gribble	expecting to test 95.5, then to test 100 if 95.5 breaks\| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 17:49 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 27 minutes and 45 seconds ago	[21:16]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.46 BTC [+]	[21:25]
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thestringpuller	;;ticker	[21:25]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 91.19000, Best ask: 91.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.30999, Last trade: 91.50000, 24 hour volume: 161115.30989828, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.02022	[21:25]
thestringpuller	;;seen smickles	[21:25]
gribble	smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 4 days, 2 hours, 43 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: a bitcoin atm could be the easiest way to send money to a friend, each of you just goes to an atm	[21:25]
thestringpuller	;;next	[21:25]
gribble	expecting to test 95.5, then to test 100 if 95.5 breaks\| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 17:49 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 36 minutes and 50 seconds ago	[21:25]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.36600002 = 1.098 BTC [-]	[21:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.36600001 = 3.294 BTC [-]	[21:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36600001 BTC [-]	[21:29]
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deadweasel_work	;;ticker	[21:34]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 90.99998, Best ask: 91.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.50001, Last trade: 91.50000, 24 hour volume: 161606.23154635, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.99775	[21:34]
*	DeaDTerra (~DeaDTerra@226.169.216.81.static.apv.siw.siwnet.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:34]
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tk993	-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----	[21:36]
tk993	Version: OpenPGP.js v.1.20130228	[21:36]
tk993	Comment: http://openpgpjs.org	[21:36]
tk993	xo0EUWxD+gEEAOCBC/1kcm8O+r68a0TF/utKMa8DM7aLbjn8LTDYFOoWbFeN	[21:36]
tk993	fawlsI9g0GY9XFbnbtDspu/SeQIJ4LSU0i2PmW7Wk6NAG9NK8LLD1xyQyhvv	[21:36]
tk993	zr7vMEzh/RTQ+gRE70rwG5dDtfv90ns3TLD+bUS7dv7DRNkxqrDaSPIlUt8t	[21:36]
tk993	ZLGZABEBAAHNH1R5bGVyIEFiZW5zIDxUQ0FiZW5zQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CnAQQ	[21:36]
tk993	AQIAEAUCUWxD+gkQeozgH8i9jjcAAKKFBACQWYk1NDmDwEcGuAlF3n1SzwI/	[21:36]
tk993	NRFwdc2Q0NMsPbg8e6AyM9DnfgURYVN/ljFYy3plMBy+CJ31h22A8i/pktbz	[21:36]
tk993	X1yWiaYHNpXsPliPef9nDI5kBo7tsURktDrEy1xe52DaMH7ClNDgW1OnqFVX	[21:36]
punkman	doing it wrong	[21:37]
tk993	wrong window, sorry	[21:37]
*	joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:38]
*	TheMonarchTx (~TheMonarc@rrcs-24-103-18-196.nyc.biz.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.366 = 0.732 BTC [-]	[21:39]
*	pnkvbz (~pnkvbz@host-92-17-215-64.as13285.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.36600003 = 3.66 BTC [+]	[21:41]
*	suporte85_Ausent has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[21:48]
*	Guest00001 (~userirc@ip-80-236-212-15.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:50]
*	error4733 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[21:51]
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*	Smoovious (~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:52]
*	error4733 (~userirc@ip-80-236-212-15.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:54]
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*	fishfish (~fishfish2@cpc10-mort5-2-0-cust225.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:56]
*	Uhh_Duh (~textual@c-24-10-194-12.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:57]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 92.50003, Best ask: 93.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.49997, Last trade: 93.00000, 24 hour volume: 163163.82299830, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.94272	[21:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8899 BTC [-]	[21:58]
punkman	http://www.vrijspreker.nl/wp/wp-content/media/2013/04/zilver_slave_queen_base_zgw-505x505.jpg	[21:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.88999 BTC [+]	[21:58]
gribble	MtGox lag is 0.550961 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.00110411967513 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).	[21:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2111 @ 0.0007054 = 1.4891 BTC [+]	[22:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9498 @ 0.00071 = 6.7436 BTC [+]	[22:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 0.89 = 9.79 BTC [+]	[22:00]
*	suporte85_Ausent (~suporte85@201-95-225-245.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:02]
*	Grishnakh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:06]
*	PsychoticBoy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:07]
*	Grishnakh (~fraiska@dsl-espbrasgw1-50dfbe-247.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:07]
*	PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@tsn77-247-182-241.dyn.nltelcom.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:08]
*	PsychoticBoy has quit (Changing host)	[22:08]
*	PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:08]
*	OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt	[22:17]
thestringpuller	;;asks 99	[22:17]
gribble	There are currently 9498.067 bitcoins offered at or under 99.0 USD, worth 920456.340518 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0033 seconds	[22:17]
thestringpuller	;;bids 90	[22:18]
gribble	There are currently 1588.4914 bitcoins demanded at or over 90.0 USD, worth 143371.686688 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 11.5109 seconds	[22:18]
thestringpuller	;;bids 80	[22:18]
gribble	There are currently 28364.908 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 2402240.82237 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 17.5698 seconds	[22:18]
*	LainZ (~LainZ@nan92-8-88-178-252-103.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3052 @ 0.0006988 = 2.1327 BTC [-]	[22:21]
error4733	haha https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=171723.msg1786279#msg1786279	[22:22]
Bugpowder	;;bids 0	[22:25]
gribble	There are currently 43699603 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 14291166.8035 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0084 seconds	[22:25]
*	terryww (~terryww@84-255-240-24.static.t-2.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:25]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.89 = 2.67 BTC [+]	[22:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.88999 BTC [-]	[22:37]
jcpham	http://turtle.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/linode/linode-abridged.txt	[22:37]
jcpham	interesting read	[22:37]
*	Gandalf__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:38]
*	Gandalf__ (~gandalf@ssl-vpn.nurs.ualberta.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:39]
Bugpowder	SP500 -33.5	[22:41]
Bugpowder	big move	[22:41]
jcpham	boston bomb scare now too	[22:41]
jcpham	how do bomb scares effect markets?	[22:41]
pgp	wow VIX up 40% today	[22:41]
error4733	!last h vix	[22:42]
assbot	Shit. You ain't even old enough to smoke.	[22:42]
error4733	!last h vtx	[22:42]
assbot	Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.46 BTC [+]	[22:42]
pgp	16.60 last.. 12.01 friday close	[22:42]
pgp	S&P volatily index...	[22:43]
Bugpowder	damn... I think my sister is running boston.	[22:45]
Bugpowder	maybe that is next year	[22:45]
Bugpowder	I better check.	[22:45]
*	fydel has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[22:46]
Bugpowder	7 blocks in 10 minutes?!?	[22:47]
jborkl	wow yep	[22:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.89 = 4.45 BTC [+]	[22:51]
MJR_	sup everybody	[22:51]
kakobrekla	alt chains	[22:52]
kakobrekla	apparently	[22:52]
MJR_	gold, silver and bitcoins are down	[22:52]
MJR_	what is the world coming to?	[22:52]
kakobrekla	alt coins are up	[22:52]
MJR_	lol	[22:52]
MJR_	ltc broke $4?	[22:52]
kakobrekla	i havent been paying close attention just got the word, no numbers included	[22:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.41 BTC [+]	[22:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00069917 = 4.7544 BTC [+]	[22:54]
Bugpowder	nah just .0028	[22:54]
Bugpowder	.028	[22:54]
Bugpowder	EVERYTHING IS TANKING	[22:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GOLD] 4 @ 0.138 = 0.552 BTC [+]	[22:56]
MJR_	http://c.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/business-living/2013/apr/14/google-car-3d-printing-and-bitcoin-great-innovatio/	[22:56]
*	unkown247 (~lover@94.99.120.36) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:57]
MJR_	great article	[22:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GOLD] 1 @ 0.138 BTC [+]	[22:57]
MJR_	http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitcoin-is-not-antisocial-a-rebuttal-to-paul-krugman/	[22:58]
MJR_	and this one was like poetry to my ears	[22:58]
*	saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)	[22:59]
*	CyrusAFK (~CyrusV@unaffiliated/cyrusv) has left #bitcoin-assets	[23:00]
Bugpowder	88	[23:01]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.10179 BTC [+]	[23:01]
MJR_	whats new Bugpowder, you got any altcoins going?	[23:01]
Bugpowder	no I am totaly out of bitcoins	[23:01]
Bugpowder	except for some physical	[23:02]
Bugpowder	sold the last 25% this morning at 94	[23:02]
Bugpowder	triggered a big fish to dump 8k	[23:02]
MJR_	ah	[23:02]
MJR_	you have puts?	[23:02]
Bugpowder	no	[23:02]
Scrat	tanking on a monday... I guess it really is fulfilling the prophecy	[23:03]
Bugpowder	too expensive	[23:03]
MJR_	but also i was asking about altcoins	[23:03]
Bugpowder	yes	[23:03]
Bugpowder	I have no altcoins	[23:03]
*	damientrog (~dtrog@91.179.69.111) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:03]
MJR_	oh	[23:03]
MJR_	so you are completely back to fiat?	[23:03]
Bugpowder	except for 40 physical BTC	[23:03]
*	Boydy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:03]
MJR_	well that is still pretty nice	[23:03]
Scrat	he is preparing for the next hype cycle :p	[23:03]
MJR_	hehehe	[23:03]
MJR_	i don't know	[23:03]
MJR_	i think things are going to get more stable	[23:04]
MJR_	and we will see a lot better sites out there	[23:04]
MJR_	slow steady growth back to 200	[23:04]
*	Bugpowder_ (cef100f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.241.0.249) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:04]
MJR_	thats what i expect for the rest of 2013	[23:04]
pgp	wrong	[23:04]
Bugpowder_	I think we fade from here	[23:04]
pgp	retest lows	[23:04]
Bugpowder_	i am a buyer for a quick flip at 52	[23:05]
Bugpowder_	and for long term at 32, 26, 21, 16, 13, 11	[23:05]
pgp	there will be significant bounces on the way down, but down we must go	[23:05]
Bugpowder_	My coins were from $2.65 on the last bottom	[23:05]
Bugpowder_	If you want the 100x return, you need to be near the bottom	[23:06]
ThickAsThieves	that BFL link is pretty good	[23:06]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[23:06]
*	micky (~micky@173-13-154-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:07]
Scrat	stability is very much needed	[23:07]
*	Bugpowder has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[23:08]
Scrat	im not a big merchant or anything but when the price is stable I get 10 times more payments	[23:08]
*	unbalanced (~unbalance@CPE744401358567-CM0026f3095b85.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:08]
*	error4733 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[23:08]
Bugpowder_	when you start seeing the post-mortem articles on the rise fall rise and final death of bitcoin, THAT'S when you buy.	[23:09]
Bugpowder_	I bought my coins the day this article came out. http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/	[23:09]
TomServo	Jumping in late here, what happened that makes you guys think you'll see $11 again?	[23:09]
Bugpowder_	plus or minus a few days, I don't really remember	[23:09]
Bugpowder_	TomServo: The bubble popped?	[23:10]
Bugpowder_	I don't think we will see 11	[23:10]
Bugpowder_	I think 16-32 is the likely bottom	[23:10]
Bugpowder_	but if we see 11, I'll buy 10,000BTC.	[23:10]
Bugpowder_	Well.... maybe 5000	[23:10]
pgp	lol	[23:12]
TomServo	Man, I forget that the fall from 32 to 5ish took several months.	[23:12]
unbalanced	Cripes just saw the news... if anyone's in Boston hope you and yours are okay.	[23:12]
*	Simon__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:13]
pgp	I think 32ish, the old high, lots of resistence getting through it - i think it'll represent significant support.	[23:13]
*	suporte85_Ausent is now known as suporte85	[23:13]
Bugpowder_	TomServo: http://i.imgur.com/fZwy3xd.png	[23:13]
Bugpowder_	32 feels like the right valuation	[23:14]
Bugpowder_	15 felt right, before the bubble	[23:14]
Bugpowder_	there will be plenty of infrastructure growth till then	[23:14]
Bugpowder_	err, since then	[23:14]
Bugpowder_	so 32. But often there is undershoot when a bubble pops	[23:14]
Bugpowder_	so I'm hoping to pick some up cheaper	[23:15]
Bugpowder_	87.5	[23:15]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker	[23:15]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 87.51100, Best ask: 87.51101, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 87.50000, 24 hour volume: 163207.51950014, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.43970	[23:15]
pgp	we'll see - i also think that bottom formation has a lot to do with velocity	[23:16]
Bugpowder_	we need total capitulation	[23:16]
Bugpowder_	Then I will pounce.	[23:17]
pgp	mee too	[23:17]
pgp	but it'll be hard to do when gox breaks again - lol	[23:17]
Bugpowder_	man, if today was the top on the SP500 too, tiberiusiv's gloating is going to be so fucking annoying.	[23:18]
thestringpuller	;;next	[23:18]
gribble	expecting to test 93, then to test 98 if 93 breaks, then testing 100 and targetting 103-105 \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 18:43 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 20 seconds ago	[23:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00069917 = 1.3634 BTC [+]	[23:18]
thestringpuller	Bugpowder_: S&P is down	[23:18]
thestringpuller	so is DOW	[23:18]
pgp	what's his deal anyway? very aggressive on chat...	[23:18]
Bugpowder_	thestringpuller: yes I know	[23:18]
Bugpowder_	I bought some international stock funds today	[23:19]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[23:19]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 87.52001, Best ask: 87.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.47998, Last trade: 88.00000, 24 hour volume: 163150.78113255, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.41196	[23:19]
Bugpowder_	at the close	[23:19]
thestringpuller	;;bids 80	[23:19]
gribble	There are currently 20414.097 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 1703773.20849 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0046 seconds	[23:19]
thestringpuller	;;asks 100	[23:19]
gribble	There are currently 20556.668 bitcoins offered at or under 100.0 USD, worth 1988149.39395 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 8.0104 seconds	[23:19]
thestringpuller	;;bc,24hprc	[23:19]
gribble	93.36	[23:19]
ThickAsThieves	at what price does mining difficulty start to go down?	[23:20]
thestringpuller	?	[23:20]
pgp	20?	[23:20]
ThickAsThieves	where miners start unplugging	[23:20]
pgp	15?	[23:21]
pgp	less?	[23:21]
Scrat	if you look at '11	[23:21]
pgp	i suppose it all about marginal electricity at that point, unless you're renting your mining hardware...	[23:21]
Scrat	it took some time	[23:21]
Scrat	and now with asics it's going to be even less pronounced	[23:21]
Scrat	because noone will be unplugging them	[23:22]
ThickAsThieves	i guess if avalon was thinking about not selling to the public anymore, this seals that deal	[23:22]
pgp	chart not looking so good... I think it starts to accellerate here...	[23:24]
*	damientrog has quit (Quit: damientrog)	[23:24]
jborkl	86	[23:25]
jborkl	and i predict this is where mtgox starts lagging out for the rest of the day	[23:26]
ThickAsThieves	I predict no notable lag	[23:28]
deadweasel	is it safe to keep fiat at bitfloor?	[23:28]
ThickAsThieves	if you have to ask!	[23:28]
jborkl	lol at the sells	[23:29]
deadweasel	i know they got hacked for fiat in sept... but it's not like you can just magically get cash into an exchange when you need it.	[23:29]
pgp	deadweasal: i think so	[23:29]
deadweasel	is there a better way to handle the fiat@exchange problem?	[23:30]
pgp	they we hacked for BTC	[23:30]
deadweasel	so fiat was untouched, because it's digital and traceable?	[23:30]
pgp	really hard to steal fiat - period...	[23:31]
Scrat	deadweasel: well, banks will insure you for unauthorized transactions	[23:31]
pgp	fraudulant transactions can be reversed	[23:31]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker	[23:31]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 85.50001, Best ask: 85.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.19999, Last trade: 85.70000, 24 hour volume: 165090.90853723, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.14763	[23:31]
deadweasel	yeah, alright. I won't be wiped out if someone takes my cash, but i'd prefer not. thx for the input.	[23:31]
deadweasel	btw, anybody know what exactly exploded at the boston marathon today?	[23:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.89 BTC [+]	[23:32]
pgp	c'mon 85!	[23:32]
ThickAsThieves	not much known yeat deadweasel, two bombs in buildings by finish line, more possible lame bombs found	[23:38]
ThickAsThieves	up to 50 inured	[23:38]
ThickAsThieves	at least 3 dead	[23:38]
ThickAsThieves	2	[23:38]
*	Anduckkkkk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:38]
deadweasel	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BH6fwFvCUAA-PWb.jpg	[23:38]
deadweasel	http://live.reuters.com/Event/Boston_Marathon_Explosion <--- horrible number of scripts on this page	[23:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 986 @ 0.00071 = 0.7001 BTC [+]	[23:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3564 @ 0.00071073 = 2.533 BTC [+]	[23:39]
*	pib1951 (pib1951@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:bb80) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1 @ 0.004 BTC [+]	[23:47]
*	copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[23:47]
*	copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:48]
*	fishfish has quit (Quit: Bye!)	[23:49]
Bugpowder_	;;bids 0	[23:52]
gribble	There are currently 43609509 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 13193804.0522 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0088 seconds	[23:52]
Bugpowder_	;;asks 9999999999999	[23:52]
gribble	There are currently 160834.57 bitcoins offered at or under 1e+13 USD, worth 1.41067200249e+13 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 3.4524 seconds	[23:52]
thestringpuller	lololol	[23:52]
Bugpowder_	its over	[23:52]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[23:53]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 86.46109, Best ask: 86.68000, Bid-ask spread: 0.21891, Last trade: 86.68000, 24 hour volume: 167132.72055536, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 92.82566	[23:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]	[23:53]
thestringpuller	whats over?	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00409989 = 4.0999 BTC [+]	[23:53]
thestringpuller	the bubble?	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1500 @ 0.00409991 = 6.1499 BTC [+]	[23:53]
thestringpuller	;;asks 95	[23:53]
gribble	There are currently 11596.617 bitcoins offered at or under 95.0 USD, worth 1061084.76118 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 75.6159 seconds	[23:53]
Bugpowder_	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00409995 = 4.1 BTC [+]	[23:54]
thestringpuller	i dony have youtube	[23:54]
Bugpowder_	S.DICE could be a good buy now	[23:54]
Bugpowder_	clearly the bounce is being front run a bit	[23:54]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[23:54]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 86.24000, Best ask: 86.34999, Bid-ask spread: 0.10999, Last trade: 86.35000, 24 hour volume: 167118.49060236, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 92.82210	[23:54]
kakobrekla	im down for a fire and a couple of songs	[23:54]
Bugpowder_	lol	[23:55]
thestringpuller	more buyers are on the way though	[23:55]
Bugpowder_	yeah	[23:55]
Bugpowder_	just like this morning	[23:55]
pgp	dunno about that	[23:55]
Bugpowder_	when the bounce didn't happen	[23:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.37 BTC [+]	[23:56]
kakobrekla	also apropriate to listen while charts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBFhdeR9PE	[23:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1544 @ 0.003734 = 5.7653 BTC [+]	[23:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 54 @ 0.00392 = 0.2117 BTC [+]	[23:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1007 @ 0.004 = 4.028 BTC [+]	[23:57]
*	hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[23:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 106 @ 0.004 = 0.424 BTC [+]	[23:57]
thestringpuller	dude btc is hella surviving...	[23:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]	[23:58]
*	unkown247 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[23:58]
jborkl	83	[23:58]
pgp	85 gone	[23:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00071199 = 6.2299 BTC [+]	[23:58]
*	Bugpowder (cef100f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.241.0.249) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:58]
pgp	24h low	[23:58]
*	suporte85 has quit (Quit: War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left. Cebolinhav9.5 www.cajau.com)	[23:59]
Bugpowder	48 hour low	[23:59]
thestringpuller	;;next	[23:59]
gribble	expecting to test 93, then to test 98 if 93 breaks, then testing 100 and targetting 103-105 \| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 18:43 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) \| disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 \| this is not investment or trading advice \| #bitcoin-analysis \| 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 16 seconds ago	[23:59]
pgp	lag-a-licious	[23:59]
Bugpowder	dude that guy is an idiot	[23:59]
thestringpuller	;;goxlag	[23:59]
gribble	MtGox lag is 0.18639 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000373523473074 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).	[23:59]
Bugpowder	85 went down	[23:59]
thestringpuller	;;bids 80	[23:59]
gribble	There are currently 12461.383 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 1025539.32766 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 16.3550 seconds	[23:59]
Bugpowder	we are going DOWN	[23:59]
thestringpuller	keep on sellin the.	[23:59]

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