Forum logs for 14 Feb 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: xfce, still cleansing/purging toolset	[00:00]
*	assbot removes voice from rucoi	[00:01]
BingoBoingo	Background is Memorial Union at Mizzou, built in the days every public uni campus in USia was built in memorian falen soldiers of the franz fredinand police action against germany	[00:03]
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thestringpuller	mod6: it stopped responding to get_info or at least it looks like it's hanging	[00:20]
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thestringpuller	damn this shit grinds to a halt as the blocks get bigger.	[00:37]
asciilifeform	which 'this'	[00:37]
thestringpuller	0.5.3.1	[00:38]
thestringpuller	with openssl 0.9something	[00:38]
thestringpuller	Bitcoin 0.5.3.1***	[00:38]
asciilifeform	classical or orphanage-burning ?	[00:38]
thestringpuller	i don't grok :(	[00:38]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html	[00:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Kfln4D )	[00:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7375 @ 0.00042782 = 3.1552 BTC [+] {2}	[00:40]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5625 @ 0.00043311 = 2.4362 BTC [+]	[00:43]
*	BingoBoingo not burning bastards, also has not come the slightest bit close to the old RAM limit since implementing new one.	[00:45]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: its classic	[00:47]
thestringpuller	i used mod6 's script to do download/compilation	[00:47]
*	asciilifeform is not at all interested in running infinitely-memcancerous bitcoind nor can recommend it to others. but also cannot recommend the experimental patch.	[00:48]
*	asciilifeform will show the next attempt at a proper fix reasonably soon.	[00:49]
cazalla	incase scoopbot isn't working http://qntra.net/2015/02/excoin-exchange-to-shut-down-amid-claims-of-theft/	[00:49]
assbot	Excoin Exchange To Shut Down Amid Claims Of Theft \| Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1AyATYG )	[00:49]
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asciilifeform	'The altcoin exchange Excoin has announced that it will soon shut down after alleging that an attacker was able to withdraw all the bitcoins from the exchange. With a trading engine written in Go, Excoin launched what was predominantly a Blackcoin exchange...' << in other news, some animal stole the heap of shit a fox deposited in my yard.	[00:51]
asciilifeform	or wait, they had btc too ?	[00:52]
cazalla	along with some shitty altcoins	[00:52]
asciilifeform	'...featured a proof of reserve page which reassured members...' << how does a www page 'prove reserve' ?	[00:52]
asciilifeform	should we even ask.	[00:52]
cazalla	their claims, not mine!	[00:52]
asciilifeform	just astonishing that 2011 never ends	[00:53]
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BingoBoingo	!up herbijudlestoids	[00:54]
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Adlai	"We noticed the hot wallets dwindling but assuming it was members moving their funds off site during the DDOS, we loaded all the cold balances onto the site so that users would not have withdrawals interrupted during our periods of up time."	[00:54]
*	Adlai despairs of ever writing fiction... the truth beats anything he can dream up himself	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	oooo!	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	"Remember how in May, 2005, the American Psychiatric Association endorsed same sex marriage? And you applauded the moral fortitude and progressive instinct of this august body? Well, instead of debating whether there should or should not be same-sex marriage, perhaps we should ask what modern psychiatry could possibly contribute to this discussion. The answer is nothing.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	You can't get away with pat answers, such as psychiatrists see the psychiatric ramifications of discrimination or being unable to marry. There are psychiatric ramifications of bankruptcy, and war, but no one felt compelled to write a policy statement on it (and thank God.)	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	And no, there isn't a difference between bankruptcy and gay marriage-- not to psychiatry. That's the point. These are social problems about which modern psychiatry is definitionally ignorant. The APA did not endorse polygamy. What's the difference? If homosexuality is not a psychiatric disorder, than there is no more reason to be more for or against it than there is for any other kind of marriage. The APA is no better	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	suited to answering these questions than, say, the NFL.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	What if the NFL came out against antidepressants in children? This is a perfectly valid analogy, because neither the NFL nor psychiatry have special knowledge that make their statements anything more than opinions. What do psychiatrists know about same-sex marriage that the quarterback for the Patriots doesn’t? Don’t laugh—I’m serious. What’s the answer?	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	Medicine, or the APA, can legitimately express a policy only if the policy was grounded in science or logic. Perhaps the APA cares to release this intriguing scientific data? (While it is at it, perhaps it can also release the data supporting the use of half of the medications currently favored by APA Guidelines?) But this seems pretty much business as usual for the APA. Rather than work on its own serious failings,	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	it involves itself in social policy."	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	best.quote.ever.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	this, incidentally, is why no us pseudoscientific body can be taken seriously to any purpose. especially not to the purpose it supposedly serves.	[00:56]
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mircea_popescu	this includes the IETF as well as it includes the AMA.	[00:57]
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chanserv	op #bitcoin-assets	[00:57]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu	[00:57]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Fri Feb 13 19:58:22 !Rucoi@2601:6:400:38:65a8:df52:4fd3:ae17 mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Thu Feb 12 08:48:19 !@*.com/ip.188.25.162.44 mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Thu Feb 12 00:59:39 !bc19a22c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/session mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 HeySteve2!@ hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 ericmuyser!@ hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 akstunt600!@ hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 ak_!@ hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 tyrion70!@ hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 chax!@ hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 !@192.210.214.103 hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Wed Feb 4 09:29:04 !@unaffiliated/moriarty hitchcock.freenode.net	[00:58]
*	#bitcoin-assets :End of Channel Ban List	[00:58]
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mircea_popescu	can't be arsed to fix the thing, can be arsed to ban evade. very fucking smart.	[00:58]
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BingoBoingo	bitcoin-qt is seriously just chilling now. was getting killed by malloc every half hour and now isn't even touching the line that killed it earlier.	[01:00]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: sad thing is, idiots denied apa/ietf/international association of bloodletting & phlogiston - will reinvent them..	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the "trading" fo shitty altcoins for inexisting bitcoin is the most important part of the altcoin pumping scams.	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	wow herbijudlestoids in da house ?	[01:01]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: You actually here?	[01:02]
BingoBoingo	I saw his join, but he's quiet if he's here	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not particularly sad. the point ios for us to know syphilitic whore is syphilitic, not for her to not get laid anymore.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	this isn't about "every fuckhead's precious"	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	this is about me going "gtfo" to tim swanson while he derps about how "normal debates work".	[01:03]
herbijudlestoids	im here	[01:03]
herbijudlestoids	huelolelo	[01:03]
asciilifeform	thought this was about annihilated scientific fields	[01:03]
asciilifeform	or stillborn ones	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	hey	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, but in the wot, not in the world.	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	the world can rot.	[01:04]
herbijudlestoids	hows everyone	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	great.	[01:05]
herbijudlestoids	i came to check yall behaving	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	did your burn rate finally catch up with the funding ?	[01:05]
herbijudlestoids	nope, we are doin really well	[01:05]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: It's been how long now, a year almost since your last visit?	[01:05]
herbijudlestoids	and, not funding :), actual paying customers	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	o.O impossibri	[01:06]
asciilifeform	what does herbijudlestoids sell, again?	[01:06]
herbijudlestoids	clouds	[01:06]
asciilifeform	?	[01:06]
herbijudlestoids	openstack based IaaS clouds	[01:06]
asciilifeform	aha timesharing	[01:06]
herbijudlestoids	ye	[01:06]
BingoBoingo	!b 3	[01:06]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0F1P1B4.txt )	[01:06]
herbijudlestoids	we doin good	[01:07]
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herbijudlestoids	its very stressful	[01:07]
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herbijudlestoids	i work a lot :(	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	i don't get it, there's literally an ocean of providers of this stuff.	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	you telling me you can actually eke a living in such a market ?	[01:08]
decimation	digital ocean?	[01:08]
herbijudlestoids	yup, we offer expertise for big providers	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	decimation on top of that lol	[01:08]
herbijudlestoids	we dont compete in the race to bottom	[01:08]
*	assbot gives voice to Namworld	[01:08]
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herbijudlestoids	so there is no herbicloud	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	this is a noble goal, but a little like pron studios claiming the same.	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	not up to you.	[01:08]
decimation	asciilifeform: did you see my link about continued sparc production	[01:08]
Namworld	Damn, I need to use gpg to log in here now? Gribble not enough anymore?	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	Namworld assbot forket wot.	[01:08]
herbijudlestoids	the big providers pay us lots of money to make their clouds gud	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	it's a much better implementation anyway	[01:09]
asciilifeform	decimation: 7000 sold/yr is not 'continued production' on the planet i live in	[01:09]
herbijudlestoids	because, it seems, most people not good at it	[01:09]
asciilifeform	decimation: it's inventory liquidation	[01:09]
decimation	asciilifeform: aye, it's highly amusing	[01:09]
herbijudlestoids	turns out large scale distributed systems are hard	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	herbijudlestoids that part i can see. so more like ops consulting for iaas ppl ?	[01:09]
decimation	no, they claim to still be doing r&d	[01:09]
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decimation	apparently they have some chip with 16 cores at 8 'threads' each	[01:09]
asciilifeform	decimation: they can claim whatever they like	[01:09]
herbijudlestoids	mircea_popescu: yeah. but we also develop IP as we go around that ops stuff	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[01:09]
herbijudlestoids	deployment tools, config mgmt, automated service discovery etc	[01:09]
asciilifeform	decimation: calculate what each unit would have to cost, approximately, for the vendor to stand any chance of breaking even	[01:10]
herbijudlestoids	we r pretty gud	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	yeah, so what's the plan, sell to microshit for 100mn in a year or two once they decide to beef up that biz ?	[01:10]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah and then compare to similar pile of arm chips	[01:10]
herbijudlestoids	im in charge of ops, but my counterpart is in charge of the dev stuff	[01:10]
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herbijudlestoids	actually, in one sense it is TOO big, and i got tired of working on it all day, so for hobby i now admin my own freebsd server with jails	[01:10]
herbijudlestoids	just like the gud old days	[01:10]
decimation	asciilifeform: the only possibility is that usg is buying vanity products	[01:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17641 @ 0.00042605 = 7.5159 BTC [-]	[01:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: there was a scandal that broke not long ago, where it came out that usg is single-handedly keeping a number of fabs (mostly rad-hard stuff) in business	[01:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: their competitors are now whining, 'we want too!111!!!11'	[01:11]
decimation	that's actually suspiciously smart	[01:12]
decimation	of course they are	[01:12]
BingoBoingo	Damn, I need to use gpg to log in here now? Gribble not enough anymore? << Gribble was down too long and nanotube's vacation was long enough for people to worry about abduction	[01:12]
decimation	the problem with keeping things alive on bezzlars is that there's always a runt who will squeal if not on the tit	[01:12]
asciilifeform	decimation: you can probably guess that they didn't do it because 'smart', but because eternal contracts signed, likely, five or six presidents ago	[01:12]
Namworld	okay	[01:12]
decimation	asciilifeform: well, some elder thought it was smart	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	Namworld http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot	[01:13]
herbijudlestoids	so.	[01:13]
assbot	irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1BqStij )	[01:13]
herbijudlestoids	tell me guise.	[01:13]
asciilifeform	phun phact: radhard ic is quite arguably obsolete - similar effect can be had using tandems	[01:13]
herbijudlestoids	wut happen?	[01:13]
asciilifeform	but this is a hatephact	[01:13]
BingoBoingo	Also with lead box	[01:13]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: who pays for launching the lead ?	[01:13]
decimation	asciilifeform: well, there are loads of silly-con valley satellite 'startups' that are launching plain arm chips into leo	[01:14]
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mircea_popescu	herbijudlestoids tons of things. qntra.net took over the business of bitcoin news. gavin has been shot in the head, foundation's over, bitcoin "development" past 0.5.x is being considered for deletion	[01:14]
herbijudlestoids	TFW the USD spazzes out and causes bitcoin to drop from >1000 to <150	[01:14]
asciilifeform	decimation: difference is that those ^ don't actually need to work	[01:14]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Toilet pays. If volume and not weight is the concern though Osmium box.	[01:14]
decimation	but leo is child's play compared to van allen belts & beyond	[01:14]
asciilifeform	decimation: the orbital nukes - do.	[01:14]
decimation	asciilifeform: aye	[01:14]
herbijudlestoids	yea i did read some rants from you on trilema about that mircea_popescu	[01:15]
herbijudlestoids	i dunno what qntra is	[01:15]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: If you want to play around with the foundation's 0.5.3.1 builds on FreeBSD they'd probably welcome it	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	http://qntra.net/2015/02/there-is-nothing-new-in-the-world-except-for-the-history-you-didnt-know/	[01:15]
assbot	There is nothing new in the world. Except for the history you didn't know. \| Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1AyFWIv )	[01:15]
herbijudlestoids	BingoBoingo: how stupid large is the blockchain right now? a billion gigabytes?	[01:16]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: In the 30GB's	[01:16]
decimation	asciilifeform: it kind of surprised me that usg allowed ibm to sell their fab actually	[01:16]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: You have jails you can build variations and see if they sync	[01:16]
asciilifeform	decimation: hence you can infer - real owner has not changed.	[01:17]
asciilifeform	decimation: could not change.	[01:17]
decimation	aye	[01:17]
herbijudlestoids	yeah, being QA for the bitcoin foundation sounds fun...	[01:17]
*	herbijudlestoids gets right on that :/	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	decimation if you review the us foreign policy, it can't escape your notice that the us is playing exactly the role of one of the classical woman in love : will pretend like she's a priss to all comers, except there's one she will literally eat the shit from.	[01:17]
decimation	I'm sure that there were 'conditions' on the 'sale' (what do you call it when you give money to someone in exchange for impoverishing you?	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	his name's china, and the us can't even mention what he asks of her. let alone consider what to say.	[01:18]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ ben_vulpes and mod6 run the thing	[01:18]
assbot	..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AyGpur )	[01:18]
herbijudlestoids	oh, is this the fork foundation?	[01:18]
BingoBoingo	Yeah	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	no, this is the nonfork foundation.	[01:18]
herbijudlestoids	confusing	[01:18]
asciilifeform	herbijudlestoids: this is the actual foundation	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	there's also a scam foundation, but w/e.	[01:18]
herbijudlestoids	lol right in -assets land	[01:18]
herbijudlestoids	yeah	[01:18]
asciilifeform	herbijudlestoids: there is also a phoundation pushing crock'o'shit	[01:19]
asciilifeform	aha	[01:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu inb4	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	but i mean this quite literally. scam foundation tried to push a bitcoin fork.	[01:19]
decimation	mircea_popescu: perhaps usg is desperate for china to become big enough so that usg can surrender to it	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	which attempt failed.	[01:19]
thestringpuller	they are still pushing that fork on some level	[01:19]
BingoBoingo	herbijudlestoids: I dare you to try a makefile for 0.9.3 on FreeBSD that doesn't lean on the linux emulation layer	[01:19]
thestringpuller	trying to push upgrades	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	decimation i think it's just perverse masochism. self hating liberal white people finally found an empire of nationalistic chinese froggies that despise foreigners.	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	match made in heaven.	[01:20]
asciilifeform	herbijudlestoids: the basic idea, if i dare suggest that there is one, is a pedigreed 0.5.3 and a sequence of man-readable patches, signed by folks known to one another.	[01:20]
herbijudlestoids	0.5.3 being the last version that -assets finds acceptable?	[01:20]
decimation	mircea_popescu: maybe if we give them everything they will accept our love?	[01:20]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: imho time spent on 0.9.x other than mining for zoological data (mutilations, fixes) is wasted	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	i think it was more like the first. 6.something prolly.	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	decimation that'd be cvounterproductive. more like, give everything, maybe then they'll finally take out the whip.	[01:21]
herbijudlestoids	hey you guys know i had an idea	[01:21]
herbijudlestoids	for a quick-and-dirty-cardano	[01:21]
herbijudlestoids	or whatever that thing was called	[01:21]
asciilifeform	a brick on a rope.	[01:21]
BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo: imho time spent on 0.9.x other than mining for zoological data (mutilations, fixes) is wasted << Indeed shit just doesn't work there as pete_dush discovered	[01:21]
asciilifeform	very quick	[01:21]
asciilifeform	dirty if you drag it on the ground first	[01:21]
asciilifeform	we already had herbijudlestoids's idea, see.	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	lolwut	[01:22]
herbijudlestoids	odroid + touchscreen + linux + seahorse	[01:22]
asciilifeform	how about a vax and a vt100.	[01:22]
asciilifeform	why even.	[01:22]
*	asciilifeform head-desks	[01:22]
herbijudlestoids	the benefit of this is that you can encrypt messages too	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	herbijudlestoids there's tons of quick and dirty cardanos out there already.	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	the point of this place is cleanliness.	[01:22]
BingoBoingo	Can encrypt from anything. Decrypt and signing are the hard problems	[01:23]
decimation	asciilifeform: it would be amusing if someone were to make an electro-mechanical RSA machine	[01:23]
decimation	like the enigma & "tunny" machines	[01:23]
asciilifeform	decimation: laugh, but i actually considered this.	[01:23]
asciilifeform	decimation: also considered the nearly equally impractical ttl logic variant.	[01:23]
herbijudlestoids	i mean, this device, it can handle decrypt/sign in the same way as cardano, but also add the ability for the user to write and encrypt a message with their key using the touchscreen	[01:23]
decimation	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher < tunny	[01:23]
assbot	Lorenz cipher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsI9iE )	[01:23]
herbijudlestoids	nvm :)	[01:23]
BingoBoingo	Encrypt merely requires pub key.	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if nubbins` weren't such a noob, he'd have laser etched a mechanical rsa by now	[01:24]
BingoBoingo	Encrypt from dirty machine and burn it until cleansed	[01:24]
decimation	yeah it would be very difficult to implement without some kind of state machine	[01:24]
asciilifeform	decimation: vernam (otp, xor) is trivial - mechanically or otherwise	[01:24]
*	assbot removes voice from herbijudlestoids	[01:24]
asciilifeform	!up herbijudlestoids	[01:24]
*	assbot gives voice to herbijudlestoids	[01:24]
herbijudlestoids	lol :(	[01:25]
herbijudlestoids	assbot hate me	[01:25]
decimation	asciilifeform: aye, that would have its uses too	[01:25]
herbijudlestoids	the thing that worries me about the cardano is upgrades	[01:25]
herbijudlestoids	what if i want to patch it	[01:25]
*	asciilifeform wishes he had a bitcent for every 'here's how you can make a quick cardano' letter	[01:25]
herbijudlestoids	or whatever	[01:25]
decimation	why on earth would it need to be upgraded?	[01:25]
asciilifeform	herbijudlestoids: what if you want to patch your hypothalamus ?	[01:25]
herbijudlestoids	to add support for new ciphers or something? i dunno	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	you don't patch it, you burn it and get a new one.	[01:26]
herbijudlestoids	if its software based i could theoretically use the same device to interact with other encryption toolsets like nacl or whatever	[01:26]
asciilifeform	^	[01:26]
decimation	re: china > https://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/china-destroyed-control-chip-of-japanese-spy-satellite-with-secret-weapon/ < lulzy translated chinese military propaganda blog	[01:26]
assbot	China Destroyed Control Chip of Japanese Spy Satellite with Secret Weapon \| Tiananmen's Tremendous Achievements ... ( http://bit.ly/1AyHSAS )	[01:26]
asciilifeform	burn, new	[01:26]
asciilifeform	herbijudlestoids: if 'software-based' is what you want, i don't get it, you already own a computer ?	[01:27]
asciilifeform	why even interested in the subject then	[01:27]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform> herbijudlestoids: what if you want to patch your hypothalamus ? << Don't remember if I did this or not.	[01:27]
herbijudlestoids	i want it to be software based, but handheld battery powered, airgapped, single function, etc	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	so buy a laptop	[01:27]
asciilifeform	laptop, palmtop (can get ms-dos!) etc	[01:28]
herbijudlestoids	yeah, im just proposing exactly that except with smaller formfactor hardware and a GUI shell that just runs seahorse or whatever	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	10 yo laptops are basically the value of the rare metals in them. 20 bux.	[01:28]
decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2013#415970	[01:28]
assbot	Logged on 10-12-2013 19:28:23; asciilifeform: what you're probably thinking of (or what you will think of, if you think long enough) is: secure terminal. complete with keyboard and display.	[01:28]
herbijudlestoids	or you could buy a brand new odroid for $35	[01:29]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform> laptop, palmtop (can get ms-dos!) etc << Sharp Zarus	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	or that.	[01:29]
asciilifeform	^ no proper rng in any of the machines discussed here	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	if you can trust their closed stack turd.	[01:29]
asciilifeform	and ^	[01:30]
asciilifeform	decimation: let's play with the satellite thing	[01:30]
decimation	herbijudlestoids: if you read the logs, you discover several explanations for why what you desire doesn't exist	[01:30]
asciilifeform	decimation: service ceiling of the j20 is, according strictly to rumour, 18km.	[01:30]
herbijudlestoids	well, some of the odroids i know have a hw RNG, but i dont know how adequate it is	[01:30]
asciilifeform	decimation: let's assume that the thing was flying at the ceiling	[01:30]
asciilifeform	let's also assume that the sat was in leo.	[01:31]
decimation	yeah those seem reasonable	[01:31]
asciilifeform	say, 160km.	[01:31]
decimation	that's pretty low, but okay	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	that was a lengthy intro for "let delta = 150km"	[01:32]
asciilifeform	so, 142km between shooter and victim.	[01:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: our usg readers may have some trouble with arithmetic, let's help'em	[01:32]
asciilifeform	next, inverse-square law...	[01:33]
decimation	well, I assumed that the 'electromagnetic pulse weapon Poacher One' was not mounted on the j-20 aircraft	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you mean, "the angular projection of a 10 metre target 150 km away" ?	[01:34]
asciilifeform	aha	[01:34]
*	BingoBoingo kinda wants a Mig-25	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 3600 / (150000*23.1415)	[01:35]
gribble	5.09310838771e-08	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	half a millionth.	[01:35]
asciilifeform	decimation: true, i have no idea where it was (if existed)	[01:35]
asciilifeform	assumed - on account of article - on plane.	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	s/mil/bil/	[01:35]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah that would seem silly	[01:36]
asciilifeform	decimation: why? because article claimed 'megawatt for minute'. if on ground, could carry on as long as you like at megawatt	[01:36]
decimation	yeah, I assumed the power would be lulzy for aircraft	[01:36]
asciilifeform	with mircea_popescu's genset trailer	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	a.... megawatt ? rly ?	[01:36]
asciilifeform	supercaps	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	gtfo, do you have ANY IDEA what the air looks like around your megawatt continuous laser ?	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	i can't be the only one that actually fired lasers.	[01:37]
asciilifeform	rayleigh scattering, yes.	[01:37]
asciilifeform	actually is the real limit to laser blaser.	[01:37]
asciilifeform	*blaster	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	how do the intended audience of these articles imagine stuff like plasma is made	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Why_is_the_sky_blue.jpg	[01:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1AyJuL1 )	[01:38]
mircea_popescu	splendid illustration btw	[01:38]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-12-2014#951698 << obligatory. old emp thread	[01:39]
assbot	Logged on 12-12-2014 00:03:19; asciilifeform: chemically-powered emp bomb is one of those weapons that really fails basic physics, for almost any scenario, but the brass can't ever fall out of love with it	[01:39]
*	Dr-G (~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:39]
mircea_popescu	moreover, iuf you need 1mw to kill a sat chip you have serious mental issues.	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	there's a monty python sketch about missile hunting mosquitoes.	[01:40]
asciilifeform	satellites don't run away, either	[01:40]
*	BingoBoingo imagines bowling with a MIG 25	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	if this satellite is a ton of iron, a megawatt OVER A MINUTE will vaporize it.	[01:40]
asciilifeform	megawatt where.	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	it's 60mJ.	[01:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform on it, supposdely.	[01:41]
asciilifeform	lol	[01:41]
decimation	nah if you want emp, you gotta nuke	[01:41]
asciilifeform	yes, it was thrown in a crucible, sure	[01:41]
BingoBoingo	Set up pins on a salt flat, attach 16lb ball to hardpoint. Fly and release	[01:41]
herbijudlestoids	haha!	[01:42]
herbijudlestoids	:D	[01:42]
*	herbijudlestoids (~sina@c220-239-186-144.randw3.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has left #bitcoin-assets	[01:42]
*	herbijudlestoids (~sina@c220-239-186-144.randw3.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:42]
BingoBoingo	!up herbijudlestoids	[01:42]
*	assbot gives voice to herbijudlestoids	[01:42]
herbijudlestoids	hmm...	[01:42]
herbijudlestoids	i identified with gribble still no voice love	[01:42]
mircea_popescu	assbot. pm it !up	[01:43]
BingoBoingo	scoopbot -fetch	[01:43]
herbijudlestoids	ah.	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/25c76cb8b51370dbf92cd1254513184d/tumblr_n54bvj7uDa1tt28juo1_500.gif	[01:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1AyKv5z )	[01:44]
mod6	thestringpuller: did you get the error message I told you about in getinfo? [ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-02-2015#1017438 ]	[01:45]
assbot	Logged on 13-02-2015 15:33:22; mod6: youll know that you've hit the bad tx when you see an error in getinfo like this: "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade."	[01:45]
*	felipelalli1 (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:45]
decimation	asciilifeform: http://www.macrofab.net/ << supposedly will make dual layer board with ~50 parts for $57 in two weeks	[01:45]
assbot	MacroFab, Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AyKI8N )	[01:45]
asciilifeform	decimation: qty = ?	[01:45]
decimation	1	[01:45]
mod6	if so, then yes, you hit the bad tx, and then you need to upgrade to openssl 1.0.1g to pass over it.	[01:46]
*	felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[01:46]
asciilifeform	nre cost ?	[01:46]
decimation	but it's not clear if that's marketing spin or not, haven't tried	[01:46]
decimation	I guess it is rolled into the price of the whole thing	[01:46]
decimation	if you use their small selection of 'house parts' they do not charge a 'labor' fee	[01:46]
asciilifeform	^ not terribly useful in my case	[01:47]
decimation	no, not really	[01:47]
decimation	I might give them a spin to see if they really exist	[01:47]
BingoBoingo	http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060502/asp/frontpage/story_6171245.asp	[01:47]
assbot	The Telegraph - Calcutta : Frontpage ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsKpGP )	[01:47]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: if you are fond of that machine, you can download the mig25 manuals stack...	[01:49]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Have one somewhere	[01:49]
*	Vexual (~v@unaffiliated/vexual) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:50]
BingoBoingo	!up Vexual	[01:52]
*	assbot gives voice to Vexual	[01:52]
decimation	asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3w_EWgGQuk < teardown and explanation of how lecroy 100 ghz oscopes work	[01:54]
assbot	Experiments and Teardown of the Teledyne LeCroy LabMaster 10-100zi 100GHz, 240GS/s Oscilloscope - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsL0bn )	[01:54]
asciilifeform	decimation: lol, that thing rejects any 'eagle' board layout i offer it	[01:54]
Vexual	Hi all, herbi.	[01:54]
asciilifeform	decimation: iirc we did that scope here	[01:54]
asciilifeform	!s lecroy	[01:54]
assbot	0 results for 'lecroy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lecroy	[01:54]
decimation	no we did a spectrum analyzer	[01:54]
asciilifeform	aha	[01:55]
decimation	from agilent	[01:55]
decimation	!s agilent	[01:55]
assbot	23 results for 'agilent' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=agilent	[01:55]
decimation	and it didn't do 100 ghz	[01:55]
asciilifeform	gonna guess that it works the same way my chinese 200mHz one does	[01:55]
asciilifeform	staggered adc	[01:55]
decimation	that's special $1 mil bezzle	[01:55]
asciilifeform	big phat deal, the cost of three tow trucks.	[01:55]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes, but the real sauce is the sample-and-hold asic	[01:55]
Vexual	ascii that snatch sniffer might work just as well without the batteries if you get the thing close enough.	[01:56]
asciilifeform	not even clear to me that it's overpriced	[01:56]
asciilifeform	Vexual: wai wat ?!	[01:56]
decimation	the input coax is more-or-less directly attached to their custome asci	[01:56]
decimation	asciilifeform: no it isn't really, how many do you think they sell? 10? 100?	[01:56]
BingoBoingo	!b 5	[01:56]
assbot	Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3CAM71A.txt )	[01:56]
decimation	once you cross into > 10 GHz signals you start having to fork over real $$ for test equipment	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	hey vex	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	hey.	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	wasnt there some command you used to be able to run..	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	!fap	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	i dunno..something like that	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	for porn	[01:58]
herbijudlestoids	i miss that.	[01:58]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	lol	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	so it pleases me to report that virtually all links from tlp to various learned repositories of articles are dead.	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	it's not been 10 years.	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	the web is fucking useless.	[02:00]
herbijudlestoids	yea wasnt vince cerf saying that as well recently?	[02:01]
herbijudlestoids	and i read a great article on archive.org about similar issue	[02:01]
decimation	mircea_popescu: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2952020/Will-21st-century-lost-history-Father-internet-warns-digital-world-lead-black-hole-knowledge.html	[02:01]
assbot	Print out your photos or risk losing them, warns Google boss \| Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1AyO8IK )	[02:01]
decimation	"In centuries to come, future historians looking back on the current era could be confronted by a digital desert comparable with the dark ages - the post-Roman period in Western Europe about which relatively little is known because of the scarcity of written records. "	[02:02]
herbijudlestoids	yeah	[02:02]
herbijudlestoids	that one	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	fucking ridoinculous.	[02:02]
decimation	'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	well, fuck the world, trilema will survive. i guess the idea being that "winners write history".	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	herbijudlestoids http://38.media.tumblr.com/4cc8da8a80bcc144e2b7a0a239b5e4f2/tumblr_mt63fprr6m1ssof6ro1_250.gif there you go	[02:03]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1AyOtuZ )	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	girl put her panties on correctly : over the garter.	[02:03]
herbijudlestoids	mesmerising	[02:03]
herbijudlestoids	i am really enjoying my freebsd hobby project, gives me opportunity to implement so many things that i have let go past because i didnt need it for work	[02:05]
herbijudlestoids	so far: squid, ldap, kerberos, djbdns, postfix, and today i finished setting up nginx and getting "A" score on the qualys ssl test	[02:05]
herbijudlestoids	next: https://github.com/nbs-system/naxsi	[02:06]
assbot	nbs-system/naxsi · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsMrGZ )	[02:06]
ben_vulpes	well that was quite the refactor	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	i went heads down, next thing i know you asshats have crapped out 800 loglines	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	and an herbijudlestoids!	[02:07]
herbijudlestoids	hullo mr fox	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	;;ident herbijudlestoids	[02:07]
gribble	Nick 'herbijudlestoids', with hostmask 'herbijudlestoids!~sina@c220-239-186-144.randw3.nsw.optusnet.com.au', is not identified.	[02:07]
herbijudlestoids	is so :(	[02:07]
herbijudlestoids	i just identified with you bastard bot	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	!gettrust assbot herbijudlestoids	[02:08]
assbot	Trust relationship from user assbot to user herbijudlestoids: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. \| http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/herbijudlestoids \| http://w.b-a.link/user/herbijudlestoids	[02:08]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust assbot herbijudlestoids	[02:08]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user herbijudlestoids: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=herbijudlestoids \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=herbijudlestoids \| Rated since: Fri Feb 14 01:33:49 2014	[02:08]
herbijudlestoids	;;ident herbijudlestoids	[02:08]
gribble	Nick 'herbijudlestoids', with hostmask 'herbijudlestoids!~sina@c220-239-186-144.randw3.nsw.optusnet.com.au', is identified as user 'herbijudlestoids', with GPG key id CA8F764D7A6DC051, key fingerprint 7BFEED118C1BD7FA160C7780CA8F764D7A6DC051, and bitcoin address None	[02:09]
herbijudlestoids	yeah. damn u.	[02:09]
ben_vulpes	ok ok	[02:09]
herbijudlestoids	i guess i should stop using my home computer to connect here and start using this freebsd node	[02:09]
herbijudlestoids	brb.	[02:09]
*	herbijudlestoids has quit (Quit: leaving)	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711276 << this you'll appreciate. grep for "Doctor_Why_Bother"	[02:10]
assbot	Does Anyone Read "The Last Psychiatrist"? - Straight Dope Message Board ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsMSAY )	[02:10]
ben_vulpes	!up Vexual	[02:12]
*	assbot gives voice to Vexual	[02:13]
ben_vulpes	srsly, whoever asked that, read the damn thing << for those blessedly uncontaminated with "c machine" constructs, it's hard to tell where the "c++" leaves off and the "boost" begins. it's clear that it's used in every for loop (c++ doesn't have iteration constructs?!), but the question if you didn't read closely enough was "why bother?" not "should one?"	[02:14]
decimation	mircea_popescu: that's a lulzy exchange. the doctor_why_bother guy is a living example of 'he misses the forest for the tiny sapling'	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	more generally, of dunning-kruger	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	people thinkg that effect only shows up in idiots, and so not in them. which of course is the very point.	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	but in fact, the moderately stupid are just as handicapped understanding why they aren't smarter as very smart people are, understanding THE SAME THING (ie, why they aren't smarter).	[02:16]
ben_vulpes	it's funny/sad how parenting reverses over time << oh this is great news you mean i have to take care of both ends? great.	[02:17]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[02:17]
decimation	it's like watching a cripple trip on a bump, adjacent to which is a sign that says "attention cripples: do not trip on this bump"	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	your average doobie, with a mediocre college degree and an ESL culture mostly geared towards ingested summaries is perfectly unable to decode metaphor or recognise complex enough patterns and fill in the gaps. this to him is frustrating, and the frustration is predictably resolved by lashing out (hey, it's the guy fault for using rferences i have to google and math i don't grok!11). in no way better than a clinical mor	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	on angry at people who can write.	[02:18]
thestringpuller	mod6: ben_vulpes it got past the wedge	[02:19]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, my "which of course is the very point" above is also "not very clear", in the sense that if one isn't particularly bright, the recursion of "what dk says is that people think they're better than they are" is not immediately glob'd into the expression.	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, if one doesn't have the culture to know that glob's a verb, the above is also "a very bad argument" .and so on.	[02:20]
asciilifeform	decimation: 'macrofab' << i worked through an entire board.	[02:20]
asciilifeform	decimation: it's a piece of shit	[02:20]
asciilifeform	decimation: loses xy coords for -all- parts	[02:20]
decimation	asciilifeform: lol thanks for jumping on that	[02:21]
decimation	but ascii, it's in 'beta'	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes : take the bright side of life. "not liking kids is not a valid reason to not have any - you'll be stuck with some anyway."	[02:21]
asciilifeform	decimation: and demands weird gerber layers that i haven't got	[02:21]
asciilifeform	what a fucking waste of hour	[02:21]
asciilifeform	cranked through all the parts substitutions crap	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform stop wasting your hours! you're a process man, you belong to s.nsa now!	[02:21]
decimation	my understanding is that you are required to manually place the parts	[02:21]
thestringpuller	"blocks" : 164713	[02:21]
decimation	in a 'mechanical turk' fashion	[02:21]
asciilifeform	(for what? rng. small board, nothing secret therein. yes, motherfucker has my gerbers now)	[02:22]
asciilifeform	decimation: semi-automatic turk	[02:22]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: it gets worse. some even work for me.	[02:22]
decimation	asciilifeform: did you use eagle?	[02:22]
asciilifeform	aha	[02:22]
decimation	I might try kicad to see what it does	[02:22]
asciilifeform	did try it	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes so do mine. but at least a) i actually fuck them and b) i don't take them without a significant prior investment from other people.	[02:22]
asciilifeform	and even took a month last year - learned geda	[02:22]
decimation	there's another similar vendor https://circuithub.com/ << supposedly they actually deliever	[02:23]
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assbot	CircuitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsOfzL )	[02:23]
asciilifeform	geda is great in every way except for being terminally buggy and the fill polygons fell apart	[02:23]
*	herbijudlestoids (~ircbnc@sina.id.au) has left #bitcoin-assets	[02:23]
*	herbijudlestoids (~ircbnc@sina.id.au) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:23]
asciilifeform	kikad is unusable on linux (on every box i own) - gui redraw bug	[02:23]
decimation	asciilifeform: I find kicad amusing - when you go to download they have a little description begging not to download the 'old stable' version	[02:23]
asciilifeform	and, even were this fixed, its autorouter is dumb as rocks	[02:23]
ben_vulpes	sage words	[02:23]
ben_vulpes	next career	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	decimation why not ?	[02:24]
asciilifeform	decimation: circuithub << wait, lol!!! >> 'In order to upload your first project, please create or link a Dropbox account.'	[02:25]
decimation	because apparently all their new 'features' are in the new 'unstable testing' version	[02:25]
asciilifeform	wtf ?	[02:25]
decimation	asciilifeform: hehe yeah I wondered when you were to walk into that	[02:25]
decimation	they promise that they won't mistreat your data	[02:25]
asciilifeform	i assume they will all 'mistreat the data'	[02:26]
asciilifeform	but why force user to use turd service ?	[02:26]
decimation	I guess because they can't write an http uploader that works?	[02:26]
*	asciilifeform even more disappointed than expected to be	[02:26]
decimation	asciilifeform, what do you expect from 'hardware startup' chumpatronics?	[02:26]
*	asciilifeform does not expect to find one of these things that works for any reasonable value of 'works', because the economics of it are not, to put it very gently, favourable	[02:27]
decimation	supposedly the macrolabs people 'make the economics work' by queuing up all the jobs onto a giant panel	[02:27]
asciilifeform	i could live, for example, with an outfit that would crap out the board and place just the passives (then i xray the damn thing here. and place the actives personally)	[02:27]
decimation	I'm not sure how they 'make it up on volume' if they have to hand place parts on the whole thing	[02:28]
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asciilifeform	but i could also live with a pill that propels me on morning commute by enabling me to fart ponies	[02:28]
decimation	pony-farts would be a fairly good way of navigating the dc traffic jams	[02:28]
decimation	apparently the kicad-pcb.org page is dead	[02:29]
asciilifeform	!s a horse splashes	[02:29]
assbot	0 results for 'a horse splashes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+horse+splashes	[02:29]
asciilifeform	;;google a horse splashes	[02:29]
gribble	Haldane, On Being the Right Size: ; .. a man is broken, a horse splashes - Physics Forums: ; On Being The Right Size (Hollywood edition). \| The Inverse Square ...:	[02:29]
asciilifeform	'You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes.'	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	^	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	great quote	[02:30]
asciilifeform	famous essay	[02:30]
asciilifeform	decimation: -everybody- queues the jobs into conveyor-width panels.	[02:33]
asciilifeform	decimation: the boojum lies in the nre costs, typically (largely paste stencils, but not only)	[02:34]
asciilifeform	decimation: also there is no small amount of actual human labour involved in the process.	[02:34]
decimation	I suspect they are using one of those 'ink jet' solder paste printers	[02:35]
asciilifeform	decimation: those trade nre for a vastly higher cost per board	[02:36]
asciilifeform	the nozzles (disposable, golden toilet) clog, etc.	[02:36]
asciilifeform	and crap slowly.	[02:36]
asciilifeform	somebody has to watch it go	[02:36]
asciilifeform	etc.	[02:36]
decimation	asciilifeform: if they are truly able to deliver at the prices they quote on the 'demo', it seems likely that they are 'debt funding'	[02:37]
asciilifeform	who?	[02:37]
decimation	the macrolabs people	[02:37]
asciilifeform	circuithub ?	[02:37]
asciilifeform	ah	[02:37]
asciilifeform	nah, i think i figured it out	[02:37]
asciilifeform	assuming the thing isn't simply a blackhole for money,	[02:37]
asciilifeform	(actually ships something)	[02:38]
asciilifeform	they make up the difference by nickel'n'diming the chump for the 'out of house' parts	[02:38]
ben_vulpes	[] deployment tools, config mgmt, automated service discovery etc << /me is tres jelly	[02:38]
asciilifeform	e.g., $1.50 to place each 15c resistor they refused to stock	[02:38]
decimation	yes, I couldn't find any mention of the costs of 'non-house' parts	[02:38]
asciilifeform	^ yes, per unit	[02:38]
asciilifeform	clever chumpamatic	[02:38]
asciilifeform	decimation: you have to crap in an actual project to learn the costs	[02:38]
decimation	nor a catalog of parts that 'can be had for a price'	[02:38]
asciilifeform	it lets you fidget with the selections	[02:39]
decimation	ah, I will upload something and see what I can do	[02:39]
asciilifeform	their selection is, i'd say, rather spotty	[02:39]
asciilifeform	e.g., no 47K 0805 resistor of any grade	[02:39]
decimation	yes their house passive selection is very limited	[02:39]
decimation	and their non-passive even more so	[02:40]
asciilifeform	as for actives, virtually none to be had.	[02:40]
asciilifeform	in short, i am presently at a loss as to what this is good for, how, and why...	[02:41]
decimation	it will be interesting to see if this 'service' continues to exist for a period of time, and if so, how it matures	[02:41]
thestringpuller	decimation: isn't there a super speeder law in VA and MD because people drive so terribly in DC?	[02:42]
asciilifeform	as i understand, it is severely antieconomic and cannot really go anywhere	[02:42]
decimation	thestringpuller: in VA if you are speeding 15 mph over the limit it can be considered 'wreckless'	[02:42]
*	assbot removes voice from Vexual	[02:43]
asciilifeform	that alone would not doom it - consider the world of usg - but the onesie-pcb-assembly business doesn't have the makings of a mass popu-chumpatron	[02:43]
asciilifeform	reckless?	[02:43]
decimation	yeah reckless	[02:45]
decimation	I guess wreckless would be safe driving :)	[02:46]
decimation	asciilifeform: I think they have the nub of a good idea, having all the steps in manufacturing clearly brought out in one spot	[02:47]
decimation	the execution might not be there though	[02:47]
decimation	ah no it's 20 mph in VA http://www.bobbattlelaw.com/faqs/what-is-considered-reckless-driving-speeding-in-virginia.cfm	[02:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1vsQFOB )	[02:48]
ben_vulpes	i got a reckless driving charge one time.	[02:48]
ben_vulpes	ticket was officially for 60 in a 30.	[02:49]
decimation	ben_vulpes: did they try to send you to jail?	[02:49]
ben_vulpes	iirc, i hit 70.	[02:49]
ben_vulpes	lol in portland?	[02:49]
decimation	you guys have a loud n' proud bisexual governor now	[02:50]
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ben_vulpes	there's always something silly happening in the backwaters	[02:51]
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decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-01-2015#965039 < mircea_popescu apparently amex was too fucktarded to keep costco as a client	[02:52]
assbot	Logged on 04-01-2015 22:07:08; mircea_popescu: decimation: re: costco & amex << I suspect amex gives costco a deal (pays them) to force a large percentage of the upper-crust customer-base to have an amex card in their wallet << pretty much how that racket goes yes.	[02:52]
decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-01-2015#965039 < mircea_popescu apparently amex was too fucktarded to keep costco as a client http://fortune.com/2015/02/12/amex-costco-dumps-cards/	[02:53]
assbot	Logged on 04-01-2015 22:07:08; mircea_popescu: decimation: re: costco & amex << I suspect amex gives costco a deal (pays them) to force a large percentage of the upper-crust customer-base to have an amex card in their wallet << pretty much how that racket goes yes.	[02:53]
assbot	AmEx shares plunge as Costco dumps its credit cards - Fortune ... ( http://bit.ly/1vsR8R0 )	[02:53]
decimation	sorry for the dup	[02:53]
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punkman	http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26968-telescopic-contact-lenses-let-you-zoom-in-on-demand.html	[03:03]
assbot	Telescopic contact lenses let you zoom in on demand - tech - 13 February 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlAMkB )	[03:03]
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punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-02-2015#1017753 << I was more wondering how much cruft we'll need for that.	[03:23]
assbot	Logged on 14-02-2015 00:20:24; BingoBoingo: punkman: if we replace openssl with libressl or whatever, how do we verify all the buggy data generated by 7 different openssl versions? << For the time being... empirically. There a set with six year's worth a data to test against by syncing.	[03:23]
punkman	could just keep the checkpoint stuff though, and not verify all the ecdsa signatures.	[03:24]
punkman	(I'll mention again that if you let VerifySignature run on all tx's, it blows up much sooner than block 168000)	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	decimation ouch, amex kinda set to go out of biz huh.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	the obvious effect of "keynesian" money pumping is bubbles, but that's not the worst effect.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	the worst effect is that everything forms monopolies. in a physics intuitive approach, what QE does is basically increase the superficial tension. this forces bubbles to merge.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	in another perspective, qe is an abdication of monetarty sovereignty. sovereignity is a fixed sum, so it just moves in other parts of the system - monopolies form.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	but in any case, however you explain it on the "micro" basis : competition and central control are mutually contradictory. much like anabolic and catabolic processes.	[03:31]
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decimation	yes, the us today is more-or-less dominated by centralized megabusiness	[03:31]
decimation	because 'must grow big to get a seat at the table where they hand out bezzlars'	[03:32]
punkman	decimation: just the US?	[03:32]
decimation	punkman: aren't you in france?	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	greece.	[03:33]
decimation	the eu has their own version	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	decimation it's not even that, it's just... the meaning of money changes.	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Amex is fine. They partnered with Walmart for poor people ATM cards	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	they're getting bought out	[03:34]
decimation	the 'meaning of money' seems to have a scale from 'tool to settle private debts' to 'note from stalin'	[03:34]
asciilifeform	old hat. east india company ran as much on the latter as the former	[03:35]
decimation	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-12/amex-grip-on-wealthy-consumers-seen-slipping-as-rivals-take-bite	[03:35]
assbot	AmEx Grip on Wealthy Consumers Seen Slipping as Rivals Take Bite - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1KVxGn4 )	[03:35]
decimation	"Chief Executive Officer Ken Chenault, 63, has introduced new products aimed at younger and less-affluent customers as AmEx seeks to broaden its appeal. The lender is working with companies including Uber Technologies Inc. and Apple Inc. to expand mobile payments, and courted Americans who lack access to traditional banks with products like its Bluebird prepaid card, offered at Wal-Mart Stores Inc."	[03:36]
asciilifeform	decimation: this is a pretty standard dynamic of 'leningrad siege, no coal, let's burn the sofa'	[03:36]
decimation	wtf, when did it ever make sense as a creditor to make enemies with those who had money in order to court those who don't?	[03:36]
decimation	yeah it seems that way	[03:37]
asciilifeform	they cash in their 'brand' for chump massification	[03:37]
asciilifeform	(what is the 'added value' of a prepay spamcard with 'amex' logo? solely the psychological tie with 'rich')	[03:37]
decimation	kinda like how 'hp' now brands chumper printer cartridges, instead of quality reliable test equipment	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	https://flpics1.a.ssl.fastly.net/4232/4232146/00050edc-db76-1a9e-3e51-e2d153eb422d_720.jpg	[03:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KVy70J )	[03:39]
asciilifeform	decimation: hp's been branding chumpcartridges since '90s	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	decimation the ones who "don't" are more valuable as bezzle access. the ones who "do" really don't.	[03:40]
asciilifeform	that's not the news, but that they stopped doing anything else. like the illusory growth of a corpse's beard	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	ie, boa was "too big to fail" because it held a lot of mortgages of people WHO COULDNT PAY FOR THEM.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile jpm was NOT tbtf, because it held a lot of money from people who had money, so it could you knoiw, just steal that,	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	so it didn't need govt money.	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	it quickly becomes perverse, the game of "let's have government in the market"	[03:41]
decimation	yeah there is no escape	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	by now a "we hold 100mn chumps, who pay us 0, give us usd" is a better revenue source than "we have 1mn people paying us 1k a year each"	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	as proven by, for instance, whatsdumb.	[03:42]
decimation	a dark force dissolves every economic decision into a sjw forum	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	well this is the problem, you know ? once you decide to try nuclear detonations in your livingroom you can no longer have "fresh milk"	[03:43]
asciilifeform	folks stupid enough to try (1) will proceed to (2)	[03:44]
asciilifeform	like clockwork.	[03:44]
BingoBoingo	Strontium makes bones strong and genes novel	[03:44]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:45]
decimation	!b 8	[03:45]
assbot	Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1WXXPAE.txt )	[03:45]
BingoBoingo	!up Vexual	[03:51]
*	assbot gives voice to Vexual	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	https://flpics0.a.ssl.fastly.net/1728/1728220/00050ef8-c44d-8b6c-90b3-6472a2bbc7d8_720.jpg << now this is some hardcore lightsabering.	[03:52]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KVzmgn )	[03:52]
Vexual	;;laserkittens	[03:53]
gribble	ุ ₍˄.͡˳̫.˄₎ ุ ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ pew	[03:53]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: isn't it odd that engl. doesn't (afaik) have a word for блат - that other capital that u.s. economy actually runs on today, as discussed above	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	blat ? ahahaha	[04:02]
asciilifeform	(roughly might translate as 'pull' or 'crown concession' but not quite)	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	it's a quite respectable romanian word.	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	;;google ce inseamna sa faci un blat ?	[04:02]
gribble	Reţetă blat de pizza \| RETETE \| prajituri \| mancare \| BarbatLaCratita: ; Cum se face aluatul de pizza pufos, crocant? \| Pofta Buna!: ; Pizza Traditionala Italiana \| Retete culinare Laura Adamache:	[04:02]
asciilifeform	call it 'fapital' perhaps	[04:02]
asciilifeform	or crapital	[04:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's more or less universal in the slavic and bordering cultures, afaik. and other orcish nations (cn) have own word that is closely analogous	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	(in romanian it means, literally, the dough part of a pizza or a cake)	[04:03]
asciilifeform	'guanxi' in cn, iirc	[04:04]
Vexual	Whaa?	[04:04]
Vexual	Ascii you're picking up Chinese?	[04:05]
asciilifeform	Vexual: one unavoidably picks up various things, like the strontium from earlier thread	[04:06]
asciilifeform	http://i.imgur.com/I9Y4Leo.jpg << unrelated vintage lulz	[04:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KVAPU2 )	[04:08]
Vexual	So many dialects in China.	[04:08]
asciilifeform	^ the incident itself is quite famous, but i somehow escaped knowing that the detailed reversing of the bug was made public	[04:09]
asciilifeform	likewise mentioned is the fact that the bug was deliberately set to overlap with freq. of a local tv station.	[04:10]
asciilifeform	(sacrifice range, gain - the obvious)	[04:10]
Vexual	Lol	[04:11]
asciilifeform	the typewriter case is interesting, from a history of usg point of view, because it appears to be the turning point for nsa	[04:12]
asciilifeform	that is, when their present direction was decided on.	[04:12]
asciilifeform	(turned, that is, from traditional signal-gathering to sabotage, cribbed, yes, from ru)	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	sabotage ? looks more like judy.	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	as in, punch and judy	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	the principal job of the nsa since about the 2010s is to be publicly and outrageously humiliated.	[04:14]
asciilifeform	if there is evidence of usg crafting functioning but diddled parts for a mass-produced machine, slipping'em in, etc. prior to this cribbing, i for one do not know of it	[04:14]
asciilifeform	a 'f-student' who cribs what he sees as 'good idea' becomes immediately obsessed with it	[04:14]
asciilifeform	to the point of utter laughability	[04:15]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[12:14]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[12:14]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[12:14]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[12:14]
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thestringpuller	good morning mircea_popescu	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	hey/	[12:15]
chanserv	op #bitcoin-assets	[12:16]
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*	#bitcoin-assets Banlist: Sat Feb 14 00:54:06 !Rucoi@* mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu	[12:16]
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*	#bitcoin-assets :End of Channel Ban List	[12:16]
*	mircea_popescu removes ban on !Rucoi@*	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	this shit's seriously a lot mopre trouble than it's worth.	[12:16]
*	mircea_popescu removes channel operator status from mircea_popescu	[12:16]
danielpbarron	so uh.. it comes as little suprise to me that my pogo using a solid state drive is significantly faster than the one using a regular laptop hard drive	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	it just won't last as long.	[12:25]
danielpbarron	i suspected harddrive read/write was the bottleneck back when i was building my first full node	[12:25]
danielpbarron	also, i have sucessully re-installed the OS on one of them multiple times; it is possible to screw up the install and recover from it without any major disassembly required	[12:28]
danielpbarron	you can just put a blank flash drive in the top usb port with an empty directory 'revert' and the thing boots up factory default	[12:29]
danielpbarron	and if it sees such a drive, it won't try to boot from the attached sata drive; so you can then fdisk as needed	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	pretty great find this	[12:30]
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mircea_popescu	;;seen trinque	[12:37]
gribble	trinque was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 hours, 58 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: mod6: lots of chatter about "can't find -lgcc_s" on teh googles	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	im gonna have to make another div payment set without a deed registrar aren't i.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell trinque YO! deedbot!	[12:37]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[12:37]
BingoBoingo	Oh, hearn has his own shadow implementation -XT!!! https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vveeq/using_mike_hearns_bitcoin_xt_instead_of_bitcoin/	[12:37]
assbot	Using Mike Hearn's Bitcoin XT instead of Bitcoin Core as full node took just a couple of minutes. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8NZ0y )	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	lol	[12:37]
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BingoBoingo	Only advertises offering 2 new unfeatures	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	"It seems to be a way to extend and patch thee Bitcoin network without waiting on slow Bitcoin Core improvements."	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	it seems there's some worms more eager than some others in the government biscuit.	[12:39]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell ben_vulpes mod6 http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2015/02/14/notes-on-building-bitcoin-qt-on-openbsd/ for when you get to porting maybe some notes might be useful	[12:39]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[12:39]
assbot	Notes on Building Bitcoin-qt on OpenBSD \| Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8OpEk )	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	cazalla: more lulzy shit at http://www.canadianbusiness.com << all these biogas precursors are in for a rude awakening. at some point they'll discover that while I have the power to make something a problem by calling it a problem, they do not (any more).	[12:41]
assbot	Canadian Business - Your source for market news, investing, technology, economy and Canadian industry ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8ON5G )	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	boy that'll suck.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	cazalla: http://i.imgur.com/yW8gIft.jpg << ahgahaah wtf!	[12:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1D8P7kW )	[12:42]
BingoBoingo	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vveeq/using_mike_hearns_bitcoin_xt_instead_of_bitcoin/colaexv	[12:50]
assbot	ButterNubber comments on Using Mike Hearn's Bitcoin XT instead of Bitcoin Core as full node took just a couple of minutes. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Eba8Z6 )	[12:50]
BingoBoingo	"	[12:54]
BingoBoingo	The point of this project is to provide a full node that has an explicit goal of supporting the needs of SPV app developers, as well as a place to try out more experimental changes in general. Through the course of 2013 I feel that the upstream Bitcoin Core project has become a relatively unpredictable place and I no longer feel sure that we can improve SPV mode or even that they will continue to support it at all. Bitcoin XT will	[12:54]
BingoBoingo	always support SPV wallets." https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bitcoinj/Y9ZOOmfJHuc	[12:54]
assbot	Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8RVOV )	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	heh k.	[12:56]
BingoBoingo	Bitcoin Core upredictable, Let's make it more so	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	you don't understand how the world works.	[12:59]
thestringpuller	you are just oppressing my wood chipper rights!	[13:00]
thestringpuller	!l m s.qntr	[13:07]
assbot	Last trade for S.QNTR on MPEX was at 0.00025459 BTC [+]	[13:07]
thestringpuller	!t m s.qntr	[13:07]
assbot	[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00021897 / 0.00023047 / 0.00026 (22881 shares, 5.27 BTC), 30D: 0.000174 / 0.00022151 / 0.00026 (28655 shares, 6.35 BTC)	[13:07]
*	sergiohlb (~Sergio@unaffiliated/sergiohlb) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:09]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2015/02/psuedonode-proxy-fools-bitcoin-full-node-incentive-program/	[13:15]
assbot	PsuedoNode Proxy Fools Bitcoin Full Node Incentive Program \| Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8WCZ6 )	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	lol awww.	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo invite basil00 over eh.	[13:16]
*	NewLiberty_ (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:6d06:2acc:44a9:2046) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:17]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Dunno him, thestringpuller wrote that up and sourced it	[13:17]
*	sergiohlb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[13:17]
thestringpuller	all i have is his github and reddit usernames	[13:17]
thestringpuller	i can send him pm in reddit	[13:18]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[13:19]
thestringpuller	sent	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	cool	[13:21]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: you can just put a blank flash drive in the top usb port with an empty directory 'revert' and the thing boots up factory default << this is not a feature of the machine, but of the modified 'uboot' installed by the script you used.	[13:28]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: what's more, this is guaranteed not to happen on the final box, because we'll actually use the 128M eeprom for the os.	[13:29]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: (your setup - doesn't)	[13:29]
danielpbarron	ah, i had a feeling that was the case	[13:30]
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danielpbarron	i hope you guys aren't relying solely on me to achieve those ends; a lot of this is totally new territory for me	[13:31]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: pseudonode << mega-lol! >> 'Otherwise, if PseudoNode can connect to at least some good nodes (default 2), then will PseudoNode will acts just like a normal node and contributes network bandwidth.' << 'contributes bandwidth' !?!?!?	[13:31]
asciilifeform	eats - yes	[13:31]
asciilifeform	contributes ?	[13:31]
BingoBoingo	no contribution without verification	[13:32]
asciilifeform	the only thing it can do is add delay - and, potentially, diddle (you connect, thinking it was a node, but really this)	[13:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5949 @ 0.00042807 = 2.5466 BTC [-]	[13:38]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[13:42]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[13:42]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 248.64, vol: 16328.91254348 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 245.993, vol: 16418.1363 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 248.8, vol: 60076.29357212 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 247.216263, vol: 273739.29310000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 245.0, vol: 32.86977983 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 235.82995, vol: 149.97156036 \| Volume-weighted last average: 247.479467217	[13:42]
gribble	Current Blocks: 343467 \| Current Difficulty: 4.44554159623438E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 344735 \| Next Difficulty In: 1268 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes, and 6 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 45854879064.3 \| Estimated Percent Change: 3.14801	[13:42]
*	scoopbot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[13:46]
thestringpuller	scoopbot on da fritz	[13:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.0004143 = 3.4801 BTC [-]	[13:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26388 @ 0.00041305 = 10.8996 BTC [-] {2}	[13:52]
BingoBoingo	http://blog.thinkst.com/p/if-nsa-has-been-hacking-everything-how.html?m=1	[13:52]
assbot	thinkst Thoughts...: If the NSA has been hacking everything, how has nobody seen them coming? ... ( http://bit.ly/1BbnTcG )	[13:52]
asciilifeform	aha, 'nobody.'	[13:53]
kakobrekla	more tracking http://pressreleases.visa.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=215693&p=irol-newsarticlePR&ID=2016148	[13:53]
assbot	Press Release \| Visa Corporate \| Visa Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bbo2wQ )	[13:53]
*	Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:54]
asciilifeform	'and the the word "implant" was almost never used in security circles' << usually called 'bug' (in the 'room is bugged' sense) outside of usg	[13:55]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: "Thanks, but unfortunately it is already late in my part of the world. Perhaps send any questions via email and I'll try to respond in ~10hours (after sleep). Email: basil@reqrypt.org"	[13:55]
BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: Really, just dropping a plaintext email address in IRC for spamzors to pick up?	[13:58]
thestringpuller	~_~ never again	[14:01]
Adlai	bitcoin inflation subsidizes the operation of the world's most energy inefficient clock	[14:07]
Adlai	and it's quite imprecise, too	[14:07]
kakobrekla	clock is scam	[14:08]
kakobrekla	time is arbitrary	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	there's no way to express bitcoin in fiat terms. it's not "a clock", because the meaning of "a clock" does not carry in bitcoin. yes it divides time, but differently in fundamental ways.	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	"energy efficiency" is not a bitcoin consideration. all energy used for non-bitcoin stuff is wasted by definition, in the bitcoin paradigm.	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	etc etc.	[14:16]
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kakobrekla	somehow i missed this also https://static.slo-tech.com/63610.jpg	[14:18]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1CsAUMU )	[14:18]
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mircea_popescu	heh. who even wants these new derpy tvs	[14:32]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	i suppose the next step is, "participate in derpland has talent with your tv set!" and hopefully that'll relieve us of most of the current imbeciles online.	[14:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36119 @ 0.00039193 = 14.1561 BTC [-] {2}	[14:35]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: _all_ energy, or the delta between current mining energy use, and half the planet's total energy expenditure?	[14:45]
Adlai	the economics change once unutilized energy is insufficient to attack the network	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	unrelated datapoints. half energy available eing used to mine bitcoin makes bitcoin safe for humans (safe in the sense of, won't be overrun by the altcoin problem)	[14:46]
*	Adlai suspects; take everything he says with the usual shaker of salt	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	as far as bitcoin is concerned, there's no point to energy other than mining.	[14:46]
Adlai	signing transactions takes a bit of energy, and without fees from signed transactions, there's no point to mining	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	no point in mining FOR HUMANS.	[14:47]
Adlai	?	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	gotta compartimentalize the povs.	[14:47]
Adlai	ok, i see	[14:47]
Adlai	still, i'm not sure that there's a rational incentive to add energy to mining activity once X% of the planet's energy expenditure is dedicated to mining	[14:48]
Adlai	i guess it would depend on the profitability, which starts getting outside the scope of bitcoin itself	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	is there a rational incentive to continue adding man-hours to women's studies ?	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	rational incentives don't enter into it. as far as derpy social studies types are concerned, all effort available should go into that.	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	the difference is that they enforce this through statal redistribution, which lives out of a hole in public choice theory,	[14:51]
*	Adlai finds himself again bringing up kahneman, who talks about "humans" vs "econs", the latter describing the rational agents of economic theory, which don't actually exist on this planet	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	whereas bitcoin enforces this through the nature of money.	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	which will crumble in contact with the other is kinda obvious.	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	o yes they do. the "humans" don't exist.	[14:51]
Adlai	?	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	a whiteknight is not a person. it's a manifestation of particular pathologies empowered by particular economic imbalances.	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	these always revert to the mean.	[14:52]
Adlai	i guess we just have different definitions of the word "human". mine is preceded with a huge "only".	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[14:53]
*	Adlai next cites his dog's vet's tatoo, or at least the one he remembers: "humanity is overrated"	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	it's simple : inasmuch as your definition of "human" difers from "econ", it doesn't exist.	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	just like whatever in your definition of "human" differs from human biology is not objective but metaphysical.	[14:54]
Adlai	dunno, it makes perfect sense to me that computers produced by an evolutionary process would be far from perfect	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[14:54]
Adlai	so "econs" are these mythical perfectly rational agents, and "humans" are these neurological shitshows full of neuroses and emotions that rarely act rationally. sure, some humans act quite rationally, but they're the exception.	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	if this is how you redefine your humans, i will change "don't exist" to "don't matter".	[14:55]
Adlai	sure. mattering is like driving skill... most datapoints think they're on the opposite side of the curve	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	(ie, "can't carry meaning". just like the foregoing it's also logically necessary, no debate possible. it flows from what you're saying, which is essentially "humans are noise". sure. but noise doesn't really matter. like brownian motion.)	[14:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.00040355 = 9.4027 BTC [+]	[14:59]
Adlai	dunno, nature can still matter, even if individual snowflakes in an avalanche or looters in a mob, could be removed without significantly affecting the whole. i choose the mob analogy purposefully, because these effects are rarely (ever?) constructive... construction seems to take either "superhuman" capacity (and effort), or enough time for differential reproductive fitness to do its thing	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	but that "nature" === "econ"	[15:01]
Adlai		[15:02]
mircea_popescu	notrly.	[15:02]
Adlai	i'm not convinced that "nature" as a whole can be considered an "econ"	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	just, 'no particular inclination to gaze upon chtulhu'	[15:03]
mircea_popescu	but review the definitions :)	[15:03]
Adlai	it's definitely something else, not "human" - but does it act in its own rational self interest? i'm not sure the concept of "self interest" is meaningful when you're talking about "nature"	[15:03]
Adlai	cf "the planet is fine, the people are fucked"	[15:03]
Adlai	i won't dispute that nature computes.	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	"the planet is fine, the people are fucked" is what people say when they can't digest the obvious "if you could understand more, you could understand more"	[15:04]
Adlai	do you know the source?	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	the planet is fine. "the people" are fine. you are stupid, and your friends ridiculous.	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	carlin neh ?	[15:05]
Adlai	it's carlin on environmentalism, yes	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	right.	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	he doesn't mean the people = "the people". he means the people = your friends.	[15:06]
Adlai	the tl;dr is that "saving the environment" is silly because the environment exists with or without its "savers", and that the real meaning behind "saving the environment" is "keeping this environment as hospitable as possible to us"	[15:06]
*	Adlai has no friends	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	more like, "saving the environment" is just as silly as any one thing a bunch of useless, stupid and ignorant entities that only exist because nobody ground uncle sam into the ground yet could ever do.	[15:07]
Adlai	and now, for something completely different!	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	think "occupywallstreet" or "feminism" or w/e. "the luxor center for businessmen". these collections don't actually do anything, it's not unlike a coral discussing which way to undulate for saving the whales.	[15:08]
Adlai	when you designed mpex's 'quantum' matching engine, did you consider proposals of the "frequent batch auction" persuasion? i have no stake in this idea, just collecting opinions on it, as i form my own	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	very little about mpex has been publicly discussed.	[15:09]
Adlai	sure, but "frequent batch auction" has been published about a few times	[15:09]
Adlai	http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=8b6cbe2c&page=1	[15:09]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Mm6i5k )	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	good fer it i guess.	[15:10]
Adlai	the actual paper, if anybody is interested in more than a slideshow, is http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=271992c2&page=1	[15:10]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Mm6q4B )	[15:10]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: i'll take that as a "haven't heard/cared about it", which is still a datapoint	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	lol kay.	[15:11]
*	Adlai had heard the buzzword, hadn't bothered to actually read about it until now	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	maybe better take it as "this man won't give me for free stuff that people might get if they pay upwards of six figures in fees. my feeble attempts to defeat his defences through 9yo discoursive tactics are probably going to fare about as well as 9yos generally fare against multi million dollar concerns."	[15:12]
Adlai	it's an interesting idea, although i must say that - as i understand it without having read the entire paper - it's too deterministic for my tastes. i kinda like the idea of deliberately random behavior.	[15:12]
Adlai	lol kay.	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	but in other news, https://flpics2.a.ssl.fastly.net/2066/2066340/00050dbb-17e7-9554-ef52-cc5731d655ac_720.jpg	[15:13]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Esuhdg )	[15:13]
*	ruin_dpbs_life (ae3f267d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.63.38.125) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	!up ruin_dpbs_life	[15:15]
-assbot-	You voiced ruin_dpbs_life for 30 minutes.	[15:15]
*	assbot gives voice to ruin_dpbs_life	[15:15]
ruin_dpbs_life	danielpbarron: you're a dead man i'm going to fucking do whatever it takes to hurt you	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	...	[15:15]
ruin_dpbs_life	enjoy going to jail with your terror cel	[15:15]
ruin_dpbs_life	mircea_popescu: you do business wiht dpb i'll get the police in volved	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	aha ?	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	which police is this ?	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	awww he got flooded did he ?!	[15:17]
danielpbarron	!rated xanthyos	[15:17]
assbot	You rated user xanthyos on 08-Oct-2014, with a rating of -5, and supplied these additional notes: met in '04; he depends on government subsidies and will side with the USG in order to maintain his leech lifestyle..	[15:17]
*	Starsoccer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[15:18]
*	Adlai was just discussing death threats yesterday... they are as effective against humans as they are ineffective against superhumans	[15:18]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell ruin_dpbs_life Guilford, Connecticut << it's probably a decent idea to not go throwing around threats off your home ip.	[15:18]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[15:18]
danielpbarron	he's also throwing them through his phone number	[15:19]
mircea_popescu	are you two ex lovers or something ?	[15:19]
danielpbarron	hah no	[15:19]
danielpbarron	but we go way back	[15:19]
Adlai	i mean, if he's asking to get the police involved, don't they love responding to death threats?	[15:19]
Adlai	[for police values of "love"]	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	well technically this was more in the vein of horrible maiming and dismemberment threats.	[15:20]
*	ruin_dpbs_life has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	lmao he got flooded. imagine the rage.	[15:20]
Adlai	dunno officer, "you're a dead man" seemed quite clear to me	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	o there's that too. well... it's a fair cop...	[15:20]
*	xanthyos (xanthyos@unaffiliated/xanthyos) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	!up benjamindees	[15:25]
-assbot-	You voiced benjamindees for 30 minutes.	[15:25]
*	assbot gives voice to benjamindees	[15:25]
benjamindees	it's my understanding that you all are generally in favor of sidechains?	[15:25]
Adlai	yours would be a Miss Understanding.	[15:26]
benjamindees	so you are generally opposed to sidechains?	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	there's really no substitute for reading the logs.	[15:27]
Adlai	no, i feel rather ignorant of them. i understand the technical description in the paper, but haven't given it enough thought to be for or against. i can't speak for other people in this channel.	[15:27]
Adlai	!s sidechains	[15:27]
assbot	22 results for 'sidechains' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sidechains	[15:27]
Adlai	benjamindees: ^	[15:27]
*	assbot gives voice to xanthyos	[15:27]
benjamindees	I'm asking more from a philosophical perspective.	[15:27]
xanthyos	to all USG people reading this log i am not antistatist or anti FIAT and i will turn states evidence on danielpbarron	[15:28]
xanthyos	i am only in bitcoin as a hobbyist poker player, i love obama	[15:28]
benjamindees	mircea_popescu, ain't nobody got time for that	[15:28]
xanthyos	please rate me down so i can't voice myself in this terrorist room anymore	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	then nobody ain't part of this.	[15:28]
Adlai	benjamindees: i just gave you the shortcut, i believe you misprounounced "thanks"	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	xanthyos but terrorism's nice. plus we have cookies.	[15:29]
xanthyos	i want no affiliation with mircea_popescu the slave holder	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	how about sedition ? are you in favour of sedition ?	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	!s donkeys camels	[15:29]
assbot	3 results for 'donkeys camels' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=donkeys+camels	[15:29]
xanthyos	/rate xanthyos -1 never voice yourself in assets again	[15:29]
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mircea_popescu	benjamindees http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2015#1013038 << you could start there.	[15:30]
assbot	Logged on 09-02-2015 00:37:52; mircea_popescu: looky here : growing larger implies growing costs. this is a given. a larger bitcoin will somehow be paid for.	[15:30]
Adlai	!gettrust assbot xanthyos	[15:30]
assbot	Trust relationship from user assbot to user xanthyos: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. \| http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/xanthyos \| http://w.b-a.link/user/xanthyos	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	!rated xanthyos	[15:30]
assbot	You have not rated xanthyos.	[15:30]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: arguably, the main/relevant effect of 'sidechains' to date has been funnelling VC money into subsidizing full nodes... although i guess you don't trust full nodes run by those people... but you don't have to because bitcoin	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	basically, to quote the ancient http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/ :	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	Yet another one of them is that consumers revolt, entrepreneurs intervene, before the end of 2015 there's about a thousand to a million different Bitcoin forks, each with its ten million-ish monetary base worth about a dollar, on global average. The size of the inter-Bitcoins market, the complexity and confusion ensuing makes pretty much everything unmanageable for the "ordinary person".	[15:35]
assbot	Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1EsBPMQ )	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	it's a bunch of fiat derps refusing to submit.	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	which is fine, they can struggle for as long as they can gather the energy.	[15:36]
Adlai	note that for the "real bitcoin", this just has the effect of further distinguishing it as such, if the current mess didn't do that well enough	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	indeed.	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	good article, that, incidentally, in that it plainly discusses in 2013 things people imagine are "about the future" in 2015.	[15:37]
benjamindees	so, you're saying sidechains are better than alts	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	all screws are better than thumbtacks for the man holding a hammer.	[15:39]
benjamindees	"there are two avenues to pay for it." <-- I disagree with this, by the way. The third avenue is to pay for it with more transactions, since the major costs (mining) are fixed.	[15:39]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	...	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	so your avenue to pay for your starbucks is a) give them some of your money ; b) borrow some money to give them or c) buy another soda ?	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	what is this, the cartoons ?	[15:41]
benjamindees	more transactions == growth in transaction volume == more fees, not just higher fees	[15:42]
Adlai	benjamindees: wait, let's back up a bit, if not for your then my sake. what's the point of sidechains? i don't think it's "paying for bitcoin mining"	[15:42]
*	Adlai thinks that federated sidechains are a great idea and cointip, bitbase, changepay, whatever they're called - should be using those, if they want transparency	[15:42]
benjamindees	Adlai, I'm wondering what you all think about it. I was under the impression you were for the idea.	[15:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00040355 = 7.4253 BTC [+]	[15:42]
Adlai	again, federated sidechains - great idea. you want a ledger with centralized control but accessible to the public, that manipulates btc denominated assets? this is how.	[15:43]
benjamindees	I've seen a couple of people say similar things. It seemed natural that if you are for a 1MB limit, you would be for sidechains as an avenue for growth or at least to keep the alts at bay.	[15:43]
Adlai	(granted, it's a lot more work than just asking people to trust you)	[15:43]
Adlai	!s rai stones	[15:45]
assbot	1 results for 'rai stones' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rai+stones	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	benjamindees you're completely and utterly misrepresenting the discussion.	[15:45]
benjamindees	feel free to correct me	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	if you're doing this by accident, you'll stfu and go read. if you're doing it deliberately... well... you'll keep at it and we'll have our lulz and move on.	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	i do not correct you, you're not tim fucking swanson. you correct you.	[15:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1983 @ 0.00077099 = 1.5289 BTC [-]	[15:46]
benjamindees	I've read everything you linked so far. It seems mostly sarcastic, which I don't really follow since I don't read your logs anyways.	[15:46]
Adlai	benjamindees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones << money doesn't have to be convenient to be useful, and there are zillions of ways to handle amounts that aren't worth the transaction cost of lugging the whole thing around; some ways are more transparent (like federated sidechains), and others less (like changetip). non-federated sidechains require changing bitcoin itself, so let's see real	[15:47]
assbot	Rai stones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1FaWU2f )	[15:47]
Adlai	world use of the version that doesn't require a change before we talk about making changes - my 2¢	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	the notion that you may participate without understanding is like... well, what all comedy gold is made out of, i guess.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	how did you get this idea, that if you don't follow something it's incumbent on me/the school/the world to fix it for you ?	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	go read shit until you get it.	[15:48]
benjamindees	...	[15:48]
Adlai	think of the sarcasm as a barrier of entry against butthurtion	[15:48]
*	assbot removes voice from benjamindees	[15:56]
Adlai	"but the energy, effort and resources which could have been expended on comfortably yielding and productively submitting" << lol	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[15:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6481 @ 0.00039004 = 2.5278 BTC [-]	[16:16]
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mircea_popescu	!up Birdman	[16:31]
-assbot-	You voiced Birdman for 30 minutes.	[16:31]
*	assbot gives voice to Birdman	[16:31]
Birdman	!down mircea_popescu	[16:31]
Birdman	just kiddin, sup	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	what's this, democracy ?	[16:31]
Birdman	^	[16:31]
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punkman	ruin_dpbs_life: danielpbarron: you're a dead man i'm going to fucking do whatever it takes to hurt you << lolwut	[16:44]
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asciilifeform	i go out for just one hour to workshop, and what do you know, we have new surrender-monkeys ?	[16:48]
asciilifeform	how many? two?	[16:48]
punkman	just xanthyos I suppose	[16:48]
punkman	wasn't he the fellow with the broken dick?	[16:49]
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asciilifeform	gavinandresen_ has quit (Client Quit) << lol! the real deal?	[16:49]
danielpbarron	punkman, yeh	[16:49]
punkman	danielpbarron: why the hardon for you?	[16:50]
asciilifeform	and did i miss some political wank or other? did they have a public impalement of heretics on the washington monument, and i missed this ?	[16:51]
danielpbarron	he has nothing better to do, and has apparently been obsessing about me	[16:51]
asciilifeform	why the surge of 'i love the fuhrer'	[16:51]
punkman	paranoia about losing benefits?	[16:51]
danielpbarron	yes; he gets checks from the state for being crazy	[16:51]
danielpbarron	he's never worked for a living in his life	[16:52]
asciilifeform	this does not automagically explain publicly creaming one's pants for usg	[16:52]
asciilifeform	plenty of folks get their daily bread from $sponsor while hating with exquisite hate	[16:53]
*	Adlai wonders what such a person's shrink would think if first hearing about bitcoin from such a patient	[16:53]
asciilifeform	related:	[16:55]
asciilifeform	'The Russian author Eduard Limonov wrote of his experiences with poverty in America. To his joy, he discovered that he could supplement his cash earnings with public assistance. But he also quickly discovered that he had to keep this joy well hidden when showing up to collect his free money. It is a curious fact that in America public assistance is only made available to the miserable and the downtrodden, not to those who are	[16:55]
asciilifeform	in need of some free money but are otherwise perfectly content. Although it is just as possible to be poor and happy in America as anywhere else, here one must make a choice: to avoid any number of unpleasant situations, one must be careful to hide either the fact that one is poor, or the fact that one is happy. If free public money is to be obtained, then only the latter choice remains. It is another curious fact that vast nu	[16:55]
asciilifeform	mbers of Americans, both rich and poor, would regard Limonov's behavior as nothing short of despicable: a foreign author living in America on public assistance while also earning cash! It seems reasonable that the rich should feel that way; if the poor can't be made miserable, then what exactly is the point of being rich?'	[16:55]
danielpbarron	i'm not sure how much of it he sincerely believes, and how much is an attempt to get a rise out of me	[16:55]
asciilifeform	(orlov, who else)	[16:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46650 @ 0.00038643 = 18.027 BTC [-]	[16:56]
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mircea_popescu	* Adlai wonders what such a person's shrink would think if first hearing about bitcoin from such a patient << srsly.	[17:01]
Adlai	my first 'irl friend' who became a holder has remarked that the main (if not only) obstacle to holding is a social one; so anybody who has been marginalized their entire life (in this case, we were discussing religious minorities, but this equally applies to the 'functionally insane') is automatically more receptive than the mean	[17:07]
Adlai	well, ok, not anybody, those that have learned from being marginalized that 'society' isn't necessarily acting on any good reason	[17:07]
asciilifeform	that the main (if not only) obstacle to holding is a social one << wai, wat?! nobody has to know if you have btc	[17:08]
asciilifeform	unlike almost any other activity	[17:08]
Adlai	social, in the sense that you hold fiat because that's what everybody else holds	[17:08]
Adlai	hanging onto cash during times of trouble is rather similar to 'hodl'	[17:09]
*	punkman feels no need to talk about bitcoin with random people or meet local bitcoin holders	[17:11]
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cazalla	way to butcher PseudoNode spelling	[17:47]
cazalla	thestringpuller, http://qntra.net/2015/02/new-security-standard-announced-at-devcore/#comment-10413	[17:50]
assbot	New Security Standard Announced at DevCore \| Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1zDtUbn )	[17:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2362 @ 0.00073052 = 1.7255 BTC [-] {10}	[17:53]
cazalla	danielpbarron: he's never worked for a living in his life <<< maybe he can get a job as a postman because he never fails to deliver	[18:08]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50750 @ 0.00038329 = 19.452 BTC [-] {2}	[18:32]
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trinque	mircea_popescu: btcd chewed up a drive on me; that stream of "adding orphan block" was preceded by an input/output error barf	[19:06]
trinque	redid the thing with the bootstrap torrent on the server, and it's on mid december as of now	[19:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 271 @ 0.00395513 = 1.0718 BTC [-]	[19:13]
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trinque	kicked it up to a bigger ec2 instance; not exactly a mindboggling increase in the rate of munching blocks	[19:27]
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mod6	<+thestringpuller> mod6: ben_vulpes it got past the wedge <+thestringpuller> "blocks" : 164713 << looks to me like you just hit a spot where it was slow, maybe a lot of disconnected blocks. this isn't the "wedge" block we were hitting. tx we had issues with (VerifiySignature) was in block 168,001. It's all in the logs.	[19:37]
thestringpuller	mod6: dyslexia and stuffs. not my best week :(	[19:38]
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mod6	If you got past 168,001 without any erros reported in `./bitcoind getinfo` then you should be alright.	[19:38]
mod6	thestringpuller: np	[19:38]
thestringpuller	i don't think it will if its running 0.9.8 ssl	[19:39]
thestringpuller	it's also slow as molasses and they want to increase the size of these blocks?	[19:39]
mod6	well, remember, I've personally gotten past that block probably a dozen times with openssl 0.9.8o with config: v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, & 6 }	[19:40]
thestringpuller	oh whoa!	[19:40]
thestringpuller	it got past it	[19:40]
thestringpuller	180631	[19:40]
mod6	and recently, TomServo was able to fully sync the blockchain with config: v0.5.3 + patches + { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 } AND with openssl v0.9.8o	[19:40]
mod6	so its totally inconsistant	[19:41]
thestringpuller	"blocks" : 180631	[19:41]
mod6	ok 180631 and no errors, looking good. see, it's inconsistant :)	[19:41]
thestringpuller	$ openssl version	[19:41]
thestringpuller	OpenSSL 0.9.8o 01 Jun 2010	[19:41]
thestringpuller	this is an older box.	[19:41]
mod6	you're on debian 7 right?	[19:41]
thestringpuller	yea	[19:41]
thestringpuller	wheezy	[19:41]
mod6	we're running on squeeze (deb 6)	[19:41]
thestringpuller	Ah. damn that was so long ago ~_~	[19:42]
mod6	you might be the first to be testing on deb7, not sure.	[19:42]
thestringpuller	if it gets current blockheight, i'll open up ports and run this as my full node instead of 0.8 version was tricked in to using.	[19:43]
mod6	thanks for testing. if you put together a pastebin of your findings: `./bitcoind getinfo` `openssl version -a`, etc. that would be helpful for our permutation matrix	[19:43]
thestringpuller	i'll wait until it either hits a wall or gets current.	[19:44]
mod6	ok thats awesome. although, i think what everyone has been running up to now is a dynamically linked version of the output binary. which shouldn't even be availab.e	[19:44]
thestringpuller	i didn't grok that sentence sorry	[19:45]
punkman	I compiled and run up to wedge on deb 7	[19:45]
mod6	when statically linking via the makefile.unix that's included with v0.5.3, I can't even get mine to compile correctly. So, I'll be spending a lot of time probably re-writing the entire makefile	[19:45]
thestringpuller	oh.	[19:45]
thestringpuller	well this is from pl script v 0.0.8?	[19:45]
mod6	what sentence tsp?	[19:45]
mod6	yeah.	[19:45]
thestringpuller	oh dynamically linking vs static	[19:46]
mod6	it'll build, it'll build the `bitcoind` binary dyamically linked.	[19:46]
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mod6	which we won't support.	[19:46]
thestringpuller	what's the benefit of static linking?	[19:46]
mod6	for the last 48 hours i've been working on trying to get it to build against static libs.	[19:46]
mod6	it will build all of the necessary things inside of the output binary, instead of leaving that stuff to call out to a seperate place	[19:47]
thestringpuller	okay i see. been a lot longer than I realize before really looking at C/C++ code. (although this i pretty much all boost which I guess alf pointed out)	[19:47]
mod6	makes for a larger output binary (by about 10mb) but is more safe incase someone were to do something nasty with a lib that is dynamically linked	[19:47]
mod6	well, w/e	[19:48]
thestringpuller	they have sentenced me to writing ruby for slave labor	[19:48]
mod6	aight. so yeah, stay tuned. as soon as I get anything working with static libs and static linking of the output object files from the bitcoin source base, I'll give an update.	[19:49]
thestringpuller	do you have specific usecase for inducing the wedge?	[19:49]
mod6	it probably will take a while.	[19:49]
thestringpuller	for if I wanted to test that.	[19:49]
mod6	thestringpuller: no.	[19:49]
mod6	it's inconsistant.	[19:49]
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thestringpuller	"non-deterministic" lol	[19:49]
mod6	as you just proved, it'll make it past it sometimes, and sometimes not. im sure there is some sort of reason for this, but we dont know what it is at this time.	[19:50]
thestringpuller	life's great mysteries?	[19:51]
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mod6	Naw.	[19:53]
mod6	We'll figure it out at somepoint. I think, for now the important thing is that we have a workaround.	[19:54]
mod6	There's a lot of moving parts in there, and deps. It's hard to put a finger on what exactly it is, right now. Especially since we are all using slightly different environments. Too many variable.s	[19:55]
mod6	Anyway, none of this really matters until we can get a statically linked build.	[19:56]
thestringpuller	cazalla: replied. awaiting moderation.	[20:11]
cazalla	thestringpuller, approved, but shouldn't you be working? :P	[20:11]
thestringpuller	on a saturday?	[20:12]
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cazalla	i figured it for friday but look.. sunday morning	[20:16]
thestringpuller	dat time travel.	[20:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38500 @ 0.00038839 = 14.953 BTC [+] {2}	[20:25]
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thestringpuller	asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922646 << is this why a lot of the US's rockets blew up during "apollo" or what not?	[20:27]
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joecool	need to get trust in -assets, i look like the leader of a splinter faction on here http://cookiechief.com/wotviz/ lol	[20:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DsOb9z )	[20:30]
joecool	thestringpuller: is that only importing from gribble's wot when a new member joins the -assets wot?	[20:31]
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thestringpuller	Nah its a static graph. And I need to redo one of the algorithms to only list those with L2 trust, a few pop up that shouldn't be there.	[20:32]
thestringpuller	eventually i plan to run cron job that pulls data from kako's w.b-a.link api	[20:32]
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BingoBoingo	!up Bagels7	[21:41]
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mircea_popescu	!up wpalczynski	[21:42]
-assbot-	You voiced wpalczynski for 30 minutes.	[21:42]
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mircea_popescu	joecool lol maybe you're the head of the black jews.	[21:43]
joecool	shrugs stranger things have happened	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	http://qntra.net/2015/02/new-security-standard-announced-at-devcore/#comment-10462	[21:51]
assbot	New Security Standard Announced at DevCore \| Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1CtRHiv )	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	these people and their narcissistic delusions of self importance.	[21:52]
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BingoBoingo	!up hegemoOn	[21:53]
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Bagels7	Hi bingoboingo, im not even verified, and deleted my key and im on windows!	[21:53]
BingoBoingo	Wow	[21:54]
Bagels7	(its on another device)	[21:54]
BingoBoingo	Ah	[21:54]
Bagels7	why the up?	[21:55]
BingoBoingo	WHy not?	[21:56]
mircea_popescu	!up felipelalli	[21:57]
-assbot-	You voiced felipelalli for 30 minutes.	[21:57]
*	assbot gives voice to felipelalli	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	he can never ruin an uppetite. for even if he ruins one, he has another coming right after!	[21:57]
wpalczynski	what do you guys make of this btc rise? any new behind it?	[21:57]
wpalczynski	*news	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	wpalczynski https://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/	[21:57]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No \| closed 53 minutes ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1CtSH6l )	[21:57]
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mircea_popescu	note the dates.	[21:58]
wpalczynski	what are they talking about? how can one share be trading at 185k?	[21:59]
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BingoBoingo	Oh, only 10 hearncoin nodes	[22:00]
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TheNewDeal	;;later tell TomServo I'm in town this evening, out tomorrow morn. Will be back thursday	[22:01]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	are you new to all this, wpalczynski ?	[22:04]
wpalczynski	bitbet i am	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	no, finance.	[22:04]
wpalczynski	not new to finance	[22:05]
wpalczynski	ive just never seen a share of any company worth nearly that much	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	well, berkshire is kind-of famous for this reason. you never heard of it ?	[22:05]
wpalczynski	ive heard of some alleged scams associate with it	[22:06]
mircea_popescu	you have ?! like which ?	[22:06]
wpalczynski	is that reallyt what it trades at?	[22:06]
BingoBoingo	Japanese companies tend towards similarly high share prices because of a lack of splits	[22:06]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo also the yen's kinda weak.	[22:06]
wpalczynski	cant really recall to be honest with you	[22:07]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: That too	[22:07]
Bagels7	so i was reading trilema.com, just gets me wound up sometimes	[22:09]
BingoBoingo	Which part?	[22:11]
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BingoBoingo	!up Bagels7	[22:11]
*	assbot gives voice to Bagels7	[22:11]
Bagels7	how are there no "happy postop transsexuals"	[22:11]
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mircea_popescu	dja know any ?	[22:13]
Bagels7	yeah but they call themselves women not transsexuals	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	anybody over 50 ?	[22:15]
Bagels7	yes, mainly them i had in mind	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	well, i guess maybe you're better connected in the group than me. i mostly know clinicians.	[22:17]
*	OneNomos (~OneNomos@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/onenomos) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:17]
Bagels7	okay so i heard that there are some who lose their sex drive and become some sort of bitter bitch but they must have been the ones that were confused or coherced	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	because why ?	[22:18]
Bagels7	I never asked but I might assume they miss having a dick	[22:22]
*	decimation (~decibot@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	well, i would imagine if they actually aim to be female they'd miss having a cunt more than having a dick.	[22:24]
*	assbot removes voice from hegemoOn	[22:24]
BingoBoingo	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vw8sk/looks_like_over_80_of_bitcoin_foundation_members/	[22:24]
assbot	Looks like over 80% of Bitcoin Foundation members are not allowed to vote in the current election - including several candidates & current board members. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/19iWbPm )	[22:24]
*	assbot gives voice to decimation	[22:25]
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*	xanthyos is now known as nothingtolose	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	lol any good drama ?	[22:26]
*	nothingtolose is now known as yes	[22:27]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: lol!!	[22:27]
*	yes is now known as Guest62591	[22:27]
asciilifeform	'Less than 20% of Bitcoin Foundation members will be eligible to vote due to a new requirement that members "activate" their accounts. Even if they are candidates, current board members, regularly participate in the foundation message boards or are actively involved with the foundation. Even those who just joined within the last month would not be able to vote unless they performed the additional step of "activating" accounts.'	[22:27]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Just that Brian Goss disenfranchised all of those paying derple https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2vw8sk/looks_like_over_80_of_bitcoin_foundation_members/colkoy6	[22:27]
assbot	Bg002h comments on Looks like over 80% of Bitcoin Foundation members are not allowed to vote in the current election - including several candidates & current board members. ... ( http://bit.ly/19iWv0t )	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	aww wait, bruce fenton complaining ?	[22:28]
BingoBoingo	INdeed	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	well, whadda they want, bitcoin scam foundation sold lifetime seats and ran out of money. of course it's not gonna honor them	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	it's like putting your dollars in a roth.	[22:28]
decimation	yeah I like the surprisingly reactionary 'election'	[22:29]
decimation	except for the part where they pass it off as a fair election	[22:30]
asciilifeform	having to rig the ballot (rather than the count) is almost iconically 'orc' inept	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	like unactivated virii ?	[22:30]
*	copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the funniest part is the notion that anyone gives a shit what comes out of it.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	presumably the usg dept. of retardation or whatnot, which phunds the phoundation, cares.	[22:33]
decimation	plus some bums on reddit	[22:33]
*	Pierre_Rochard has quit (Quit: Pierre_Rochard)	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	hardly.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	it's more of a contest of possible scapegoats.	[22:34]
decimation	like the soviets, they probably are going to pick the guy who is 'least likely to surrender to the foundation'	[22:34]
BingoBoingo	!b 6	[22:35]
assbot	Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1ESTAFY.txt )	[22:35]
hanbot	mircea_popescu not inasfar as unactivated virii implies knowable potential	[22:35]
BingoBoingo	http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/01/29/negroes-and-the-gun-a-winchester-in-every-black-home/	[22:38]
assbot	Negroes and the Gun: A Winchester “in every Black home” - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1CurHBe )	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	http://www.notjustbitchy.com/sadism-is-not-an-excuse-to-be-awful/#comment-5547 << for maximal trololol.	[22:38]
assbot	Sadism is not an excuse to be awful! » Not Just Bitchy ... ( http://bit.ly/1CurNZw )	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://pervocracy.blogspot.ca/2012/08/the-myth-of-boner-werewolf.html is why "safewords" are utter bs. really, "red" midstride ? not happening.	[22:40]
assbot	The Pervocracy: The Myth of the Boner Werewolf. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CusaDl )	[22:40]
*	assbot removes voice from Bagels7	[22:41]
asciilifeform	paging herr mocsny:	[22:42]
asciilifeform	'Try this one on for size. A man and woman are together, making out, removing clothes, getting totally naked, engaging in foreplay with both partners active, the woman mounts the man and begins rubbing her stuff on his stuff, without penetration but obviously that’s the next step; and then she suddenly says “I’m uncomfortable doing this,” and turns completely cold. I’ve experienced this. I respected the “No” but	[22:42]
asciilifeform	I have to tell you it felt like an icy dagger being pounded straight into my heart. People tell me I’m pretty easy-going and in that situation I believed I proved it. But I really hope there aren’t too many women who make a habit of this. Because I don’t think men are biologically constructed to pass such tests reliably.'	[22:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu ^	[22:42]
asciilifeform	(from archive, http://www.myrsky.net/danimal-archive-part-2 )	[22:43]
assbot	» Danimal Archive, part 2. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CusF0f )	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	it's just infantilism. girlie trying to test the limits of her world.	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	it's unhealthy for said world to just infinitely give way in all directions all the time. at least some of the time she has to come face flat against a stone wall.	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	for sanity, if nothing else.	[22:44]
asciilifeform	but in the corner of the room, a little red-white-and-blue weasel sits and whispers in her ear, 'we can move, remove, all the walls, in exchange for just a trifle'	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	tough.	[22:45]
BingoBoingo	And seriously spz safewords are a thing red is a horribru one. Now Balloon or "I'm not just sure, I'm HIV positive" might have some potential.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	lol	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	i think red is by far the widest used.	[22:48]
asciilifeform	know of any logical reason for this?	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the whole construction's fucking irresponsible. for one thing, the subject's not in any position to evaluate anything. there are specific, well documented, well understood biological mechanisms that prevent a sane evaluation.	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	if you handling the cane can't tell when she;s had enough, her with the bruises and marks CERTAINLY can't.	[22:49]
BingoBoingo	Red is one of the worst imagineable for the purpose. It does nothing to break the context of the situation and fits in too many contexts appropirate to the situation. It's like a trailer park feeding trough using icecream as its safe word to get gluttons to leave.	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	not to mention the entire fucking point of the exercise is for the sub/slave to SUBMIT. not to constantly feed the red herring of "individual self determination"	[22:50]
asciilifeform	^	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	not that i've actually met a woman seriously into bdsm that was all derpy with this atomic consent bs anyway.	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	it's mostly the avatar of teenagers that wish to pretend they're adults, and make up their parallel adult world to inhabit.	[22:51]
asciilifeform	and so read log; now, what's this i hear re: a 10mb statically-linked bitcoind ?!	[22:53]
asciilifeform	what arch ?	[22:53]
asciilifeform	somebody did something odd	[22:53]
mod6	yeah, im sure i did.	[22:55]
mod6	dynamically linked ~18mb, statically linked (that didn't work) ~28mb	[22:56]
mod6	that was on obsd. which subsequently coredumped on execute	[22:56]
mod6	so ~10mb /difference/	[22:56]
asciilifeform	http://sasecurity.wikia.com/wiki/Encryption << anyone here admits to being responsible for this ?	[22:57]
assbot	Encryption - Sasecurity Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/19iZXrY )	[22:57]
mod6	im still wrestling with trying to compile bitcoind on linux with statically linked libs & objects.	[22:59]
asciilifeform	mod6: 'portatronic' will do it	[22:59]
asciilifeform	ought to work on any reasonable unix	[22:59]
asciilifeform	did you find otherwise ?	[23:00]
mod6	no, havnet tried it. ben is building it currently actually. thanks.	[23:00]
asciilifeform	i used that little script to build the armv5 bins	[23:00]
asciilifeform	(also posted to listserv a while ago)	[23:01]
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BingoBoingo	mod6: Your appearance reminded me to update with the protocol.cpp #includes http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2015/02/14/notes-on-building-bitcoin-qt-on-openbsd/	[23:09]
assbot	Notes on Building Bitcoin-qt on OpenBSD \| Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1CuwP8e )	[23:09]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:11]
BingoBoingo	!up jborkl	[23:11]
*	assbot gives voice to jborkl	[23:11]
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*	copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:14]
mod6	BingoBoingo: ah, yeah cool. :]	[23:17]
BingoBoingo	I also killed the block files and block index with my build today to test syncing again. Almost to 16801 again.	[23:18]
mod6	ok cool.	[23:18]
BingoBoingo	This run with a 4GB process RAM limit it hasn't crashed yet. Just crossed the 512 MB line around block 153000	[23:20]
mod6	nod i wanna say that mine usually blows up around like 200-230k or w/e	[23:21]
BingoBoingo	Well I'll report what happens when I get to March 2013 again	[23:22]
mod6	(always past the last checkpoint, but usually before 252450)	[23:22]
mod6	ok thanks BB	[23:22]
BingoBoingo	I was at late Feb 2013 though when I killed my stuff to sync again	[23:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2681 @ 0.000755 = 2.0242 BTC [+]	[23:24]
*	Guest62591 has quit (Quit: leaving)	[23:28]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: realize that the obscene memhunger is 99+% bastard blocks	[23:30]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: don't take my word for it, either. 'valgrind.'	[23:30]
decimation	lol usg http://www.wsj.com/articles/online-document-sheds-light-on-proposed-drone-rules-1423960620	[23:30]
assbot	Online Document Sheds Light on Proposed Drone Rules - WSJ	[23:30]
asciilifeform	(doesn't require any actual work to use, just run as described earlier in log)	[23:30]
decimation	"Federal regulators plan to propose rules that would limit commercial drone flights to below 500 feet, daytime hours and within sight of the operator, while also requiring operators to pass written exams, according to a federal document posted online Friday."	[23:30]
decimation	they've been 'working' on these rules for more than 4 years and this is what they come up with? the status quo?	[23:31]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I might give that a go next time	[23:31]
decimation	in case folks are unfamiliar, usg claims the air on 'your' land starting at 0 feet	[23:31]
asciilifeform	decimation: the actual law, as always, is 'not caught, not thief.'	[23:31]
asciilifeform	as with mircea_popescu's unlicense.	[23:31]
decimation	yeah as if people are going to pay usg to fly their 'aircraft' at 500 feet within sight of the operator	[23:32]
decimation	the whole point of the 'drone license' was that somehow drones would be able to fly farther	[23:32]
asciilifeform	the corollary to the 'first law,' 'not caught not thief' - is 'may as well hang for a sheep as a lamb'	[23:32]
asciilifeform	as in, if flying a pilotless machine from washington to new york is punishable with life at hard labour, the cargo may as well be cocaine	[23:33]
asciilifeform	or trotyl	[23:33]
asciilifeform	or whatever.	[23:33]
BingoBoingo	torglodiesel	[23:34]
BingoBoingo	*troglodiesel	[23:34]
decimation	maximal bureaucratic ass covering plus 'anarchotyranny'	[23:36]
decimation	ie 'anarchy for those who choose to thumb their nose at the law', tyranny for anyone who desires to comply	[23:36]
*	paxtoncamaro91 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:36]
asciilifeform	decimation: nah, 'anarchotyranny' - useful term, commonly understood - is when certain useful idiots are permitted a free hand to terrorize designated victims	[23:37]
decimation	yeah usually the way the term is used, the 'anarchy' group is associated with privileged classes to whom the law does not practically apply	[23:38]
*	Xuthus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[23:38]
BingoBoingo	http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/14/the-killer-the-reporter-and-the-southern	[23:40]
assbot	The Killer, the Reporter, and the Southern Poverty Law Center - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1ACzhNB )	[23:40]
decimation	BingoBoingo: the splc is one of the official 'victim' group selectors	[23:42]
BingoBoingo	That it is	[23:42]
asciilifeform	http://www.ivy-style.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/nsa3.jpg << small l0l: the ru example is atrociously off	[23:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ACzWP2 )	[23:44]
asciilifeform	(from http://www.ivy-style.com/secret-society-nsa-recruiting-ads-at-brown-1968.html )	[23:45]
assbot	Ivy Style » Secret Society: NSA Recruiting Ads At Brown, 1968 ... ( http://bit.ly/1ACzZdM )	[23:45]
decimation	asciilifeform: what does the ru version say?	[23:45]
asciilifeform	it's a dictionary gloss of the engl.	[23:46]
decimation	ah without conjugation?	[23:46]
asciilifeform	aha.	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	troglodiesel lmao	[23:48]
decimation	lol http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html?smid=fb-share	[23:53]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1KYszCu )	[23:54]
decimation	"“Going to Africa. Hope I don’t get AIDS. Just kidding. I’m white!”	[23:54]
decimation	She chuckled to herself as she pressed send on this last one, then wandered around Heathrow’s international terminal for half an hour, sporadically checking her phone. No one replied, which didn’t surprise her. She had only 170 Twitter followers."	[23:54]
decimation	"Sacco boarded the plane. It was an 11-hour flight, so she slept. When the plane landed in Cape Town and was taxiing on the runway, she turned on her phone. Right away, she got a text from someone she hadn’t spoken to since high school: “I’m so sorry to see what’s happening.” Sacco looked at it, baffled."	[23:55]
decimation	No rasis comment goes unpunished!!	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	what exactly "was happening" ?	[23:58]
decimation	well, it's our old friends at valleywag	[23:58]
decimation	"It’s possible that Sacco’s fate would have been different had an anonymous tip not led a writer named Sam Biddle to the offending tweet. Biddle was then the editor of Valleywag, Gawker Media’s tech-industry blog. He retweeted it to his 15,000 followers and eventually posted it on Valleywag, accompanied by the headline, “And Now, a Funny Holiday Joke From IAC’s P.R. Boss.”"	[23:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56200 @ 0.00039092 = 21.9697 BTC [+]	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	so basically nothing.	[23:59]
decimation	right	[23:59]

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