Forum logs for 12 Mar 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

jurov	no they're all about bahts, have you seen the symbol?	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	anyway, things are getting pretty much wrapped up, im upgrading mpex.co back online from "this week" to "today".	[00:00]
jurov	yup, congrats	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	youtube being fags : http://www.youtube.com/embed/8c1BQkKUsx0 < does not need flash ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c1BQkKUsx0 does need flash	[00:03]
jurov	have you seen https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49417.msg1610708#msg1610708 ?	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	howly fuck	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	it just never ends does it	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	wait. this is asicminer pool ?	[00:04]
dub	this DrG idiot	[00:04]
gesell	mircea_popescu: thanks for the link	[00:05]
jcpham	yeah mircea_popescu	[00:05]
jcpham	the op of the asicminer pool decided to fork his pool for a few minutes	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	so basically asicminer made a shitton	[00:05]
jcpham	accidentally	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	and there's going to be drama ?	[00:05]
dub	not commiserate with teh ideals of bitcoin, kind of person bitcoin does not need.. The person is blatantly and willfully violating the trust of Bitcoin network and for that he/she should be reprimanded.	[00:06]
jcpham	so while bitcoind was running with no db	[00:06]
dub	what is this shit	[00:06]
gesell	mircea_popescu: are you seriously considering a gmail protocol? this seems nuts. maybe you should consider https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149 first	[00:06]
jcpham	i assume the miners were doing diff 0 shares	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	dub da fck is this ?!	[00:06]
jcpham	until the hot wallet was empty	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	gesell mail is not nuts. mail is the strongest, oldest and in general best service ever implemented on the internet.	[00:06]
dub	I didn't think bitcoind offered work until it was synced	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	in the worst case scenario, mail is the backstop.	[00:07]
jborkl_	I think it would have been network diff at the point of the blockchain download you were mining	[00:07]
gesell	mircea_popescu: yes mail is but using google as a trusted host gate, not sure	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	dub it was prolly bugged.	[00:07]
jcpham	i upgraded bitcoind today	[00:07]
jcpham	it resyncs	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	gesell just had that as an arbitrary name	[00:07]
dub	yeah new db	[00:07]
jcpham	dunno how a pool handles the resync	[00:07]
jborkl_	at block 195000 it was i think 1.95 m for example	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	it wouldn't certainly be a case of trusting google.	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	the discussion was anyway an "in principle" thing.	[00:07]
gesell	mircea_popescu: okay	[00:08]
FabianB	MPEx.rb 0.5.0 released (https://github.com/fawuxi/mpex/) includes irc convo logging and a new 'portfolio' command with prediction of your total portfolio value	[00:08]
jborkl_	so while he was dl, blocks would have been synching fast- but mining at 200k diff	[00:08]
FabianB	maximian: ^^	[00:08]
FabianB	mircea_popescu: also proxy discovery included now :)	[00:08]
jborkl_	for example	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	FabianB :D	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	irc logging is a good idea. include a ticker to bold my lines ? :D	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	i mean a tickbox	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	"If bank places by mistake 10k into your account, and you cash it out, your will probably rot in jail.."	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	what world do these people live in, seriously ?!	[00:10]
*	dgdfgdfg (4f8da71d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.141.167.29) has left #bitcoin-assets	[00:10]
dub	thats true, at least here	[00:10]
pigeons	if you dont give it back you will	[00:10]
FabianB	mircea_popescu: it's just the conversation of MPEx.rb with the irc bots, not of this channel	[00:10]
jcpham	if the pool with the most hashrate is mining on a non -up-to-date copy of the blockchain	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	FabianB :p	[00:10]
jcpham	that's an issue	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	dub they will have to sue for unjust enrichment. they may win it,	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	but then again they may not.	[00:11]
pigeons	they always will	[00:11]
gesell	mircea_popescu: why not use google spreadsheets for graphs and orderbook review?	[00:11]
pigeons	which is why mp lost in his own hand picked rota	[00:11]
gesell	in that scenerio you would script updates (not pull from an api, as this might overrun google apps limits)	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	pigeons not really true. they always will try to convince the person to return it	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	but afaik such claims are rare. usually cost more to sue than they'd get	[00:12]
pigeons	really, absoulutely trye. give me one example where its not	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	gesell you can go right ahead, or what are you asking ?	[00:12]
kakobrekla	i have seen it happen here and the bank gets the money back one way or another	[00:12]
pigeons	ive seen plenty where it is true, none where it isnt	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	pigeons you've seen a case where a bank sued the recipient of an error for unjust enrichment ?	[00:12]
pigeons	yes	[00:13]
pigeons	more than one	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	link or docket or anything ?	[00:13]
dub	pretty sure its straight up law here	[00:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01401 BTC [-]	[00:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01401 BTC [-]	[00:13]
dub	bank fucks up, give it back or the police come get you	[00:13]
gesell	mircea_popescu: well i would be happy to make some spreadsheets to pull the order books but this would require some sort of mpex api (json or xml or whatever) for that and again, leave you open to ddos. but if you pushed the data onto your own public spreadsheet you would avoid any ddos on your public facing graphs and orderbooks	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	not an expert but iirc it was rare shit.	[00:13]
pigeons	dont have my lexisnexis here	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	gesell you seen the faq ?	[00:13]
pigeons	but sure, i'll remember	[00:13]
gesell	mircea_popescu: not in bit. checking again	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	specifically, http://mpex.coinbr.com/faq.html#11	[00:13]
gesell	oh didnt see the sierra chart feed	[00:14]
gesell	and json	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	json been there for a while. sierra recent addition	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	also kakobrekla has a websocket feed he's been selling people.	[00:14]
gesell	mircea_popescu: are those feeds not effected by the ddos?	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	nothing's affected other than the website which people somehow get fixated on.	[00:16]
gesell	mircea_popescu: it's the face. but is interesting to contemplate what that means and reshaping it.	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	let's think together what that means.	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	domain gets "confiscated", somehow.	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	nobody cares. moving on.	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	that's what it means.	[00:18]
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gesell	mircea_popescu: well its also strange that the proxy seems to be a mirror. as apposed to it being it's own form of interface.	[00:20]
pigeons	it proxies	[00:20]
FabianB	well stock trading volume went down, but never stopped; options as usual	[00:20]
gesell	if the face effects trades then, well, recovery should be monitored. and hopefully there is recovery	[00:21]
pigeons	or, the face can go away	[00:22]
pigeons	and people can learn to trade anyway	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	gesell say what ? i don't follow	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	the proxy mirror part	[00:22]
smickles	so the ddoser's name is "the face"?	[00:23]
smickles	nice	[00:23]
deadweasel	lol. the face	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140472.msg1610300#msg1610300 << most likely to be agreed with forum person.	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	you'd never guess it.	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151880.msg1612122#msg1612122 another one	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	wtf is going on over there	[00:24]
smickles	'... or else nazi and nazi'	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	she called him thermos too	[00:25]
gesell	mircea_popescu: for lack of a better comparison... say for instance that some brokerage firm was had their own interface to nyse showing trades and tickers. this would "feel" decoupled from the excchange itself so people would not associate the two. if nyse decided to change how they present themselves that brokerage face would not be percieved as, i dont know, a quick crutch to fill the gap. where as when it is mirroring nyse so closely	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	gesell are you a web developer by any chance ?	[00:26]
gesell	mircea_popescu: hobby web dev for aesthetics. serious code and hardware hacker for the $	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	okay.	[00:26]
pigeons	basically, mircea_popescu does not care how it "feels"	[00:26]
gesell	hacker meaning reverse engineer (meaning, f;ing serious)	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[00:27]
gesell	pigeons: even if he doesnt care. it is still interesting to consider what the market effects of change of face are, and where the middle ground is, and where there is space to innovate in a intuitive way. or maybe there isnt really	[00:27]
pigeons	not interesting	[00:27]
smickles	gesell: did you notice that my mpexbot has a direct line into mpex, yet doesn't look like a mirror?	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	pigeons that is exactly the opposite of reality. i very much care how it feels. which is why the proxy doesn't have spurious dongles, but feels just like the real tihng.	[00:28]
gesell	pigeons: if change of face did effect trade volume, that is interesting to explore	[00:28]
smickles	;D	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	what i don't care about is appearance bullshit. there's a very good reason for that : unlike the web, the retail market for plastic figurines and fake fags,	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	i actually have a business.	[00:28]
gesell	smickles: yeah mpexbot... so it could be that just as mpex forces people to understand that the odd security model is better (and forces people to learn why and learn what pgp is) maybe it is of value to force them to use a different interface in a similar way. but the cause and effect is not as clear with the Web vs Mpexbot, as it was with the gpg protocol	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	for some reason i have a lot of trouble following this guy.	[00:30]
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smickles	mircea_popescu: that mpex gui i'm developing is nearly functionally complete	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	0.0	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	what do they feed you over there, uppers in speedball sauce ?	[00:30]
pigeons	it better have minecraft	[00:30]
FabianB	gesell: in both cases you need gpg to trade	[00:30]
smickles	pigeons: not minecraft, but opengl like was discussed yesterday	[00:31]
gesell	mircea_popescu: not sure. i think i just dont explain abstract thoughts well.	[00:31]
pigeons	i want bricks of some sort then	[00:31]
smickles	i have a screenshot of it	[00:31]
pigeons	lego mpex	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	totally. opengl.	[00:31]
pigeons	zork mpex too	[00:31]
smickles	http://imgur.com/fwa71Fj	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	pigeons lemme quote a person familiar with the matter, for your benefit :	[00:32]
gesell	smickles: is that QT based?	[00:32]
smickles	nope	[00:32]
gesell	gtk?	[00:32]
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smickles	nope	[00:32]
gesell	tcl/tk??	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	"i get the feeling ima wake up one of these days and like there will be a little mpex anthill, and mpex transaction wallpaint and i can order a stat from the magazin alimentar"	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	it's uppers in speedball sauce based.	[00:32]
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da-art-o-peas	http://i.imgur.com/JHEHg14.jpg	[00:33]
pigeons	hopped up on goofballs	[00:33]
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gesell	then i hope the buy button creates a buy event on button down and not button released ;)	[00:33]
smickles	gesell: it's a toolkit which uses opengl, i don't know too much about it	[00:33]
smickles	i just know how to use it	[00:34]
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smickles	and that i should be able to make binaries for win, mac, linux and android with it	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	what are you using like allegro ?	[00:34]
smickles	kivy	[00:35]
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smickles	gesell: aw, i picked button released, is that bad?	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	it is yeah.	[00:35]
gesell	smickles: yes, they people on upper speedball sauce will have to click for each buy whereas on button down they could just Hooooooold and buy shit loads	[00:35]
dub	lol	[00:36]
smickles	lol, well, the buy button goes to a detailed asset page with price and quantity inputs	[00:36]
gesell	aaaah	[00:36]
smickles	yeah, i'd figure you'd want to know the best ask if you planned to buy	[00:37]
dub	why?	[00:37]
dub	this is mpex, we invest for the future, regardless of price	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	sutmm ?	[00:38]
pigeons	http://www.businessinsider.com/intrade-shutting-down-2013-3	[00:38]
smickles	i have that one drawn up right now. left side full depth (scrollable) right 2/3's has details up at top and input middle, confirmation button at bottom	[00:38]
gesell	smickles: sounds good	[00:38]
gesell	kivy is interesting. new to me	[00:38]
dub	if you care about price you are the wrong kind of investor	[00:38]
dub	remember that	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	intrade news is old! https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/310988017236049921	[00:38]
smickles	also, the thing is proxy aware and checks for updated proxy lists	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	smickles almost like a botnet.	[00:39]
smickles	shhh :P	[00:39]
smickles	that is how botnets work tho, isn't it?	[00:39]
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smickles	i think i've lost every bitbet bet i've made	[00:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19999 BTC [-]	[00:40]
smickles	except the ufo ones	[00:40]
kakobrekla	i can make you a special 'yes and no is switched' interface	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	lol	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla you know this may be a workable idea ?	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	put a link on main page, "Bad luck lately ?"	[00:42]
kakobrekla	ahah	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	if person clicks it site is color switched (everything)	[00:42]
smickles	lol, what an idea	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	and yes/no also switched in menus but not in actual effect.	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	so they go for yes but it bets no	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	and we see how many people actyually use that.	[00:42]
kakobrekla	first get your email working	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	dude i'm asking you for the difficult, you're asking me for the impossible.	[00:43]
kakobrekla	:D	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	email is too hard. i can get finger working this week	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	and maybe gopher	[00:43]
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mircea_popescu	maybe i should upgrade the php proxies to also forward mail.	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	tux will just die.	[00:43]
pigeons	i'm down with finger instead of this twitter stuff	[00:44]
smickles	haha, come to mpexbot to check your email !	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	totally.	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	hey smickles! implement an $email command	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	it just returns "No new emails received"	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	to mess with noobs.	[00:45]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[00:45]
smickles	$mail 3 ways to a larger PENIS	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	lol	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	it should have a list. if person is not on that list, "You're not cool enough for this service sorry."	[00:45]
mod6	need a mutt plugin	[00:45]
smickles	$markov	[00:45]
mpexbot	and if you can, hire a group to make it happenj	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	you can charge like .01 btc for lifetime membership or something	[00:46]
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mircea_popescu	and it's spelled PEN1S anyway	[00:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 6 @ 0.00999 = 0.0599 BTC [+]	[00:47]
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dub	you goddamn hacker how did you get my password	[00:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19999 BTC [-]	[00:49]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	;;slab puq	[00:49]
gribble	Error: "slab" is not a valid command.	[00:49]
kakobrekla	how do you mean no slab?	[00:50]
kakobrekla	nano should fix this	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	is of no comprehension his.	[00:50]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[00:50]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 48.16000, Best ask: 48.18310, Bid-ask spread: 0.02310, Last trade: 48.16000, 24 hour volume: 41803.52824419, 24 hour low: 45.47100, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 47.48502	[00:50]
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dub	no this is fucking logo http://alerts.gw.gd/	[00:52]
dub	now*	[00:52]
gesell	its a shame geocities is down. mpex hosted via geocities would just be perfect	[00:52]
dub	I swear its synergy throwing away half my keystrokes	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	dub ahaha totally all the gimp effects	[00:53]
smickles	$email	[00:54]
mpexbot	smickles: No new messages received.	[00:54]
ThickAsThieves	$email	[00:55]
mpexbot	ThickAsThieves: To sign up for this service, contact smickles. Cost will be 0.01 BTC.	[00:55]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[00:55]
smickles	$list SupyMPEx	[00:55]
mpexbot	smickles: depth, email, post, proxies, and vwap	[00:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]	[00:56]
ThickAsThieves	i assume all email revenue goes to making mpex aesthetic improvements	[00:56]
smickles	the list just keeps growing. In two weeks, we'll have something like nano's gribble on our hands	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	$email	[00:56]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: No new messages received.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	omg im so cool	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	eat that hat3rs	[00:56]
mod6	smickles: nice!	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla as you can see, i received no mail.	[00:57]
kakobrekla	fu :P	[00:57]
ThickAsThieves	check ur spam folder	[00:57]
kakobrekla	$spam	[00:57]
ThickAsThieves	spam detected	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	Intel X25-E Extreme SSDSA2SH064G1GC	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	go me.	[00:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00401 BTC [-]	[00:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 50 @ 0.004 = 0.2 BTC [-]	[00:59]
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FabianB	;;ticker	[01:03]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 48.19322, Best ask: 48.19341, Bid-ask spread: 0.00019, Last trade: 48.19322, 24 hour volume: 41895.49680393, 24 hour low: 45.47100, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 47.48907	[01:03]
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FabianB	thank you maximian, if that was you	[01:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19999 BTC [-]	[01:04]
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gesell	what tha, btc24 now second largest exchange? that was fast	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	whos btc24 even ?	[01:10]
gesell	beh, they got their own bots on the exchnage not that it matters	[01:10]
gesell	bitcoin-24.com http://bitdata.com/articles/102	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	i see bitstamp at 150k	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	or you meant eur ?	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	ya ok	[01:11]
gesell	not sure how bitdata compiled that chart. it isnt eur specific	[01:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C470T] 192 @ 0.19228973 = 36.9196 BTC [+]	[01:12]
gesell	puts bitstamp and btc24 at %2 behind mtgox both	[01:12]
gesell	sorry #2 not %2	[01:12]
gesell	i swear to god they have their own bots running on the exchange. not sure what the objective is but see some bots responding with <200ms timing	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	marketmaking neh ?	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[01:14]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 48.10003, Best ask: 48.19000, Bid-ask spread: 0.08997, Last trade: 48.19000, 24 hour volume: 41520.07762161, 24 hour low: 45.47100, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 47.51308	[01:14]
gesell	perhaps. just mapped their bots edges and it tends to push it's own reserve volume over other bids that it thinks are too low	[01:14]
gesell	up to a certain limit, perhaps set based on numbers of averages on other exchnages	[01:15]
gesell	maybe its an arbitrage protection bot, or not sure	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	this is probably a recipe for disaster	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	have everyone entering fake trades based on the other people's fake trades averages	[01:15]
kakobrekla	bitstamp is fucked and ran by idiots	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	in fact it's probably the main source of volatility atm	[01:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.19999 = 0.8 BTC [-]	[01:16]
gesell	mircea_popescu: what do you mean by fake trades? I think on btc24, unlike mtgox, if you buy your fiat gets locked and you cant make another order. same on sell. of course their own local bots could fake, but i could not prove this. and actually they wouldnt have to fake, if all they really want to do is some moderate protection from arbitrage	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	gesell if the exchange is running it's own bot,	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	and it is feeding it from the trades on other exchanges	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	except everyone does this	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	the net result is a positive feedback loop of great danger	[01:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.2 = 0.4 BTC [+]	[01:18]
gesell	mircea_popescu: i cant wrap my head around how that would all play out. just assume before running any bot one would make comfortable limits, and some way to guage when things are getting out of control so you know when to turn off	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	i hear that, i'm thinking bitcoinica.	[01:19]
gesell	other than being hacked dont remember bitcoinica gaming the market	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	did you read their leaked emails ?	[01:21]
benkay	where find ^^?	[01:21]
gesell	mircea_popescu: havent no	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	http://pastebin.com/Ya6iN8RT	[01:23]
benkay	tempted to pause timer and read	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	what timer is that	[01:24]
benkay	billing.	[01:24]
benkay	but also would like to close out workblock, make commits, email people "yay" and go play with dog and lady	[01:26]
benkay	so	[01:26]
benkay	balancing priorities.	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	such balance is apparent in the sorting of the [dog ; lady] set.	[01:27]
benkay	oh you	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:27]
benkay	maybe i alpha sort everything on the outfeed, huh?	[01:28]
benkay	in reality, dog needs tiring first	[01:28]
benkay	otherwise	[01:28]
benkay	INAPPROPRIATE CUDDLES	[01:28]
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mircea_popescu	heh	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	PSA : starting yest MPEx is adding 0.001 fee to all txs, whether needed or not (it's almost never actually needed). Support teh network!	[01:32]
benkay	wat.	[01:33]
benkay	oic.	[01:34]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 30 @ 0.00557 = 0.1671 BTC [-]	[01:56]
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mircea_popescu	reading a digest of the bitcoin-dev chan, i am struck by how incredibly pompous these people are.	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	seriously know. who told them they know shit and when exactly ?!	[01:59]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 20 @ 0.00524 = 0.1048 BTC [+]	[02:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01987 BTC [+]	[02:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 11 @ 0.01988 = 0.2187 BTC [+]	[02:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 2 @ 0.1796 = 0.3592 BTC [-]	[02:06]
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smickles	mircea_popescu:	[02:26]
smickles	$depth s.mpoe	[02:26]
mpexbot	smickles: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:26]
mpexbot	smickles: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	that;'s not bad actually	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	here's a tricky thing :	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	would it be possible for the bot to keep a count of the chat lines during past 5 minutes and send that response by pm if value > 50 ?	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	and also send it by pm if it's been sent to the main chat during the past 1 hr	[02:29]
kakobrekla	basically just send it to pm.	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	lol	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	not EXACTLY	[02:30]
smickles	it would be easist to just send it to pm	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	well i guess it would, yeah.	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	up to you	[02:30]
smickles	do you think it's spammy as is?	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	as is no	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	but it has the potential to become.	[02:31]
kakobrekla	also side note, pm is short for 'picku mater' which roughty translates for 'mothers cunt'	[02:31]
kakobrekla	to*	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	pizda ma-tii.	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	eastern europe is firmly decided on pm = yo momma's.	[02:31]
kakobrekla	:)	[02:32]
smickles	well, kakobrekla if you think people are using it too often, let me know and I will switch it to pm response	[02:32]
kakobrekla	aha	[02:32]
kakobrekla	lets see what happens then	[02:32]
*	smickles imagines kakobrekla adding 'use $depth s.mpoe 5 times an hour or be banned!' to the topic	[02:34]
kakobrekla	wait so one must use it 5 times an hour ?	[02:34]
mircea_popescu	lol totally.	[02:35]
kakobrekla	mkay better get started	[02:35]
smickles	yup, also, i added email service to mpexbot	[02:35]
kakobrekla	$depth s.mpoe	[02:35]
kakobrekla	$depth s.mpoe	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:35]
kakobrekla	$depth s.mpoe	[02:35]
kakobrekla	$depth s.mpoe	[02:35]
kakobrekla	$depth s.mpoe	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:35]
mpexbot	kakobrekla: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	i still think my idea was the most elegant	[02:35]
smickles	T_T	[02:35]
kakobrekla	no spam.	[02:35]
dub	;;echo $depth s.mpoe	[02:36]
gribble	$depth s.mpoe	[02:36]
mpexbot	gribble: Bids: ['5 @ 73163', '5539 @ 73162', '4961 @ 72543', '10000 @ 71102', '10000 @ 70102']	[02:36]
mpexbot	gribble: Asks: ['502 @ 76717', '12095 @ 76718', '1399 @ 77988', '54540 @ 77999', '500000 @ 78000']	[02:36]
smickles	i might need to fiddle with the 'abuse' configs	[02:36]
*	evoorhees (~evoorhees@69.115.139.222) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:36]
kakobrekla	o looky.	[02:36]
smickles	$depth s.dice	[02:36]
mpexbot	smickles: Bids: ['100 @ 530012', '81 @ 530011', '800 @ 530000', '500 @ 520000', '10 @ 520000']	[02:36]
mpexbot	smickles: Asks: ['9299 @ 569996', '1000 @ 569997', '2000 @ 570000', '148 @ 599990', '48346 @ 600000']	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	lol	[02:37]
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mircea_popescu	evoorhees good thinking on upping the you lost returns.	[02:37]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151593.msg1609610#msg1609610	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	totally qualified to give advice.	[02:42]
Troic	fork drama next	[02:42]
pigeons	yeah be careful with the big bucks till the fork is resolved	[02:43]
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mircea_popescu	how long is it yet ?	[02:44]
pigeons	looks like about 5 blocks	[02:46]
mircea_popescu	fleshwound	[02:47]
dub	yuss	[02:47]
dub	inb4 $2	[02:47]
smickles	dub: i called 2 hours ago	[02:47]
pigeons	satoshi dice pausing till resolved	[02:47]
smickles	er, i called $2, hours ago	[02:47]
smickles	curse you ambiguity	[02:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 8 @ 0.1796 = 1.4368 BTC [-]	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[02:48]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 47.75902, Best ask: 47.83005, Bid-ask spread: 0.07103, Last trade: 47.83005, 24 hour volume: 42125.00556719, 24 hour low: 45.54000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 47.65497	[02:48]
dub	now would be a great time to dos guild	[02:51]
dub	any kids watching? :)	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	is this fork in any way related to the two asic miners ?	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	ie, is one avalon sponsored and the other am sponsored ?	[02:52]
BitHub	is this a scam?	[02:52]
dub	no its a block size issue affecting BDB in 0.7	[02:53]
dub	according to -dev	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	so basically they fucvked up the upgrade.	[02:53]
dub	0.8 is unaffected so 0.7 and 0.8 miners have forked	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	as in, "it's a blocksize issue we've introduced with 0.8"	[02:53]
dub	fix is to move majority hashing back to 0.7	[02:53]
jcpham	anyone want to help me with a e-poll	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	these pompous assholes.	[02:54]
dub	so if guild went down now it would be teh bitpocalypse	[02:54]
jcpham	it has real world results	[02:54]
dub	mircea_popescu: no	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	oh ?	[02:54]
jurov	;;bc,convert eur	[02:54]
gribble	1 BTC = 47.70000 U.S. dollars = 36.6923077 Euros	[02:54]
kakobrekla	mircea_popescu switch dns? :p	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla lol.	[02:54]
dub	mircea_popescu: its a previously unheard of issue with BDB, the block size triggered it	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	dub SO THEY FUCKED UP THE UPGRADE.	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	jesus passing the buck is like a tradition in bitcoin-devtalk	[02:55]
dub	mircea_popescu: well no, dice fucked up the blockchain	[02:55]
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mircea_popescu	yaya	[02:55]
dub	by creating blocks too big for 0.7	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	"let's hide the fact that we suck at coding by falsely accusing someone else of doing things such as trying to externalise their costs on others"	[02:55]
dub	we only know about it because half the network is on 0.8	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	"which happens to be exactly what we're doing"	[02:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.774998 = 1.55 BTC [-]	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	tell them i expect an apology for this idiocy.	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	fuckwits need to learn some humility presto.	[02:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.2 = 0.8 BTC [+]	[02:56]
ThickAsThieves	seems like they could really fuck things up from this point still	[02:56]
jcpham	http://micropoll.com/t/KE9JQZQhrI vote for "good love"	[02:56]
jcpham	top three bands get to play	[02:56]
jcpham	trying to make sure my frind's band plays	[02:56]
jcpham	its a big venue for him	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	mkay.	[02:56]
dub	fixing the network to make dice fit is the trigger	[02:56]
jcpham	do it or die	[02:56]
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mircea_popescu	dub would you stop already ?	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	their mommies made them do it ?	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	jcpham done. they owe me a bra now.	[02:57]
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jcpham	k	[02:57]
dub	mircea_popescu: big blocks are the problem here	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	dub no.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	they did not know what their own code did.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	that is the problem here.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	they pushed an unsafe upgrade, without a clue.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	that is the problem.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	they only discovered it once it blew up.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	that is the problem.	[02:58]
dub	well, no	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	how no ?	[02:58]
dub	but I can see you are decided	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	i'm askin.	[02:58]
dub	because the problem is increasing teh blocksize not 0.8	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	...	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	dude.	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	how is the problem "increasing the blocksizer"	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	this is the same coolaid of saying "sd is hte problem"	[02:59]
*	BitHub has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[02:59]
dub	because 0.7 nodes can't handle them	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	no dood. the problem is bad code, not the real world constraints that expose it sucks.	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	WHY NOT	[02:59]
dub	because the database sucks	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	orly	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	it;'s the db now right ?	[03:00]
dub	no	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	why not jesus ? jesus sucks so devs can't code.	[03:00]
pigeons	because the bug in BDB wasn't encountered before because the number of transactions in a block that trigger it wasnt valid before	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	dun dun dun	[03:00]
dub	Okay SatoshiDice is on pause now. Receiving bets but not processing anything.	[03:00]
dub	fyi	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	so what, we write bugs and that's ok if nobody forces our nose in it "?	[03:00]
*	BitHub (~BitHub@unaffiliated/bithub) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	cause we're too busy acting the knowful shitheads on -dev ?	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	fuck that.	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	dub so ?	[03:01]
dub	I think its too early to know if its bdb itself or bitcoins implementation	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	how about bitcoin implementing something that failed is on the devs	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	period.	[03:01]
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mircea_popescu	it's not tested enough to release yet, do not release it.	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	what is this, 1955, we're discovering software engineering ?	[03:02]
BitHub	heh	[03:02]
dub	im just annoyed that we're not at $2 yet	[03:03]
dub	come on guys, its panic time if ever there was	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	i'm sick and tired of the young cocks circlejerk attitude.	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	a. they know shit ; b. they don't even know a. wtf.	[03:03]
jcpham	let's see how this plays out	[03:05]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.56 = 2.8 BTC [+]	[03:07]
dub	speakign of circlejerk	[03:12]
dub	fucking assholes now want to talk about my offer after a week of bullshit	[03:12]
ThickAsThieves	sooo what happens if i do this	[03:13]
dub	and I'm now ready to buy a different house	[03:13]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[03:13]
gribble	Current Blocks: 225435 \| Current Difficulty: 4367876.000842196 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 225791 \| Next Difficulty In: 356 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[03:13]
ThickAsThieves	;;estimate	[03:13]
gribble	Next difficulty estimate \| None based on data since last change \| 5496120.07656 based on data for last three days	[03:13]
dub	0 diff would be neat	[03:14]
ThickAsThieves	so if they are forked, then anyone mining the dropped fork is fukt	[03:15]
ThickAsThieves	right?	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	also an issue of doublespends.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	(incoming)	[03:15]
ThickAsThieves	and anyone helping to push the old fork gets super low diff	[03:15]
ThickAsThieves	?	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	nah both ends are same diff	[03:16]
ThickAsThieves	oh cuz it wont change til the specific block	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	if one forks gets to actually the diff block	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	then they will have divergent difficulty	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	luckily there's still a ways to go	[03:18]
dub	gox better not stop this crash	[03:19]
ThickAsThieves	you know they will	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[03:19]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.50110, Best ask: 45.60134, Bid-ask spread: 0.10024, Last trade: 45.00000, 24 hour volume: 55914.86095949, 24 hour low: 45.00000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 47.30466	[03:19]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[03:19]
ThickAsThieves	gox didnt halt trading?	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	i imagine they only halted payouts	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	trading can in principle continuewith what they have deposited in btc and freely on usd.	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	payins i mean. people paying them.	[03:21]
dub	whois defunctzombie?	[03:23]
dub	he'so offering to halt trading if gox does	[03:23]
pigeons	and halted processing deposits	[03:23]
Chaang-Noi	crash?	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	Chaang-Noi more like momentary panic.	[03:23]
Chaang-Noi	:)	[03:24]
dub	blockchain is firked	[03:24]
*	vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)	[03:24]
Chaang-Noi	litecoin is moving on up, crazy	[03:24]
dub	and forked	[03:24]
dub	and fucked	[03:24]
Chaang-Noi	what is the news with gox, just woke up?	[03:24]
Ukto	update regarding effects of blockchain issues on bitfunder. https://bitfunder.com/market	[03:24]
dub	bitcoin forked into 0.7 and 0.8 chains	[03:24]
Ukto	pools were todl to increase blocksize	[03:25]
dub	pools are rolling back to 0.7 to fix	[03:25]
Ukto	someo made them too big	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.0	[03:25]
Chaang-Noi	it forked? oh fuuuuck	[03:25]
Ukto	and olrder clients shat themselves	[03:25]
Ukto	end of story.	[03:25]
Ukto	nothing malicious	[03:25]
Chaang-Noi	so coins in our new clients are they gone?	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	no, just stupid.	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	nah chang	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	you just shouldn't credit payments for a bit.	[03:26]
Ukto	Chaang-Noi: that depends on what happens after blockchain merger	[03:26]
Ukto	mircea_popescu is correct	[03:26]
Ukto	you SHOULD be fine	[03:26]
Chaang-Noi	oh fuck me	[03:26]
Ukto	but put things on hold	[03:26]
pigeons	everyone go take a walk and get some food and come bac in a few hours	[03:26]
Chaang-Noi	glad i has 150,000 as a back up crypto currancy	[03:26]
Chaang-Noi	LTC	[03:26]
Ukto	you have 150k ?	[03:26]
Ukto	x.x	[03:26]
mod6	heh you sold 50k 'eh	[03:27]
dub	mircea_popescu: loving the WTC ref	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	dub heh.	[03:27]
pigeons	yeah ltc could never get this bug because that many transactions in litecoin would never propogate quickly enough to get included in a block	[03:27]
Chaang-Noi	i have not made a btc payment for about 12 hours, will this make me saffer even if i use the new client?	[03:27]
pigeons	Chaang-Noi: just wait	[03:27]
Chaang-Noi	is there a link with more info on the forum or something?	[03:28]
pigeons	http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30587843	[03:28]
Chaang-Noi	thanks	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	Chaang-Noi your outgoing payments are safe	[03:28]
davos	meh - its only down 4, less than 10%	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	crediting incomingpayments may be unsafe, if they are doublespent across the forks	[03:28]
davos	not a crash	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	and then they merge into one that doesn't include you being paid.	[03:29]
davos	and wrong chat. =D	[03:29]
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*	Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:30]
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Chaang-Noi	mp i sold 50k ltc yesterday for btc, odds on this being accepted?	[03:33]
*	Bowjob (4b9d1e75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.157.30.117) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:33]
smickles	;;ticker	[03:33]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 43.12000, Best ask: 44.50000, Bid-ask spread: 1.38000, Last trade: 43.12000, 24 hour volume: 62664.75566320, 24 hour low: 43.12000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 46.92695	[03:33]
Bowjob	Meow	[03:34]
Bowjob	All right, what the fuck is going on	[03:34]
smickles	SELL SELL SELL !!!	[03:34]
*	BTCTrader2 (~BTCTrader@adsl-76-235-155-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:35]
kakobrekla	hm 1k sold and price went down 3$	[03:36]
Bowjob	This is a huge blow to bitcoin. WTF I thought its supposed to be secure	[03:36]
the-bucket-shop	my guess miner hardware related. total wild guess	[03:36]
ThickAsThieves	why do they even need to change the code	[03:37]
BitHub	bitcoin been failing a bit lately	[03:37]
BitHub	alot of flaws being exposed	[03:37]
dub	this is glorious	[03:37]
smickles	BitHub: http://bit.ly/wAIBGJ	[03:37]
BitHub	?	[03:37]
Ukto	btw	[03:37]
Ukto	this will rpolyl drive ltc prices up	[03:37]
Ukto	;)	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	BitHub they've been doing this shit since day one	[03:37]
Chaang-Noi	:)	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	wallet was plaintext for like 2 years	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	it's just that now btc is worth half a bn dollars	[03:38]
*	Thinker (~Thinker~@cpe-24-59-184-164.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:38]
Ukto	almost done with my mini ltc project	[03:38]
BitHub	mircea do you think the bitcoin foundation will pay out a compensation? lul	[03:38]
smickles	reparations!	[03:38]
BitHub	damn straight	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	BitHub i'd be more than happy if the usual pompous idiots came out with an apology.	[03:38]
Chaang-Noi	Ukto tell me more, i heart ltc	[03:38]
BitHub	mircea who's fault is it?	[03:39]
dub	mircea_popescu: you know the answer right	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	dub yes.	[03:39]
dub	mircea_popescu: because 'not ready for primetime'	[03:39]
*	benkay (~benkay@c-71-193-200-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	BitHub i'm not going to go into that level of detail.	[03:39]
dub	mircea_popescu: its obvious they don't want adoption	[03:39]
Bowjob	wow.. what will the institutional investors think	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	dub yes, they want it forever this niche toy where they matter.	[03:39]
dub	mircea_popescu: at least for the next 100 years	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	when i told them they'll be pushed aside coupla months ago i guess they groked it	[03:39]
BitHub	all good, but yeah, makes me think they could just do this sort of stuff on purpose just to manipulate the price	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	BitHub they're for the most part not intelligent enough to understand the point or value of money.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	they just want dorks admiring them.	[03:40]
BitHub	to be honest i have noticed the lack of like really really god like programmers	[03:40]
dub	oh this is gettgin good	[03:41]
*	Chaang-Noi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[03:41]
kakobrekla	what is getting good	[03:41]
kakobrekla	where is the url	[03:41]
dub	you cant downgrade to 0.7	[03:41]
kakobrekla	feed us	[03:42]
pizzaman1337	or getting bad	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.0	[03:42]
dub	without prev blkindex	[03:42]
Bowjob	satoshi, save us	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	dub obviously ?	[03:42]
BitHub	yeah where is Lord Satoshi?	[03:42]
kakobrekla	mistebigg again	[03:42]
kakobrekla	someone stab him in teh face	[03:42]
BitHub	he needs to come in and fix these n00bs mistake	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	the only way is basically foer the people who upgraded to downtime	[03:42]
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mircea_popescu	let the smarter folks merge it	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	then pay for a blk	[03:42]
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dub	and no reindex in 0.7 so you have to download and validate the chain	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	da fuck did you think tho ?	[03:42]
dub	which workd REALLY WELL	[03:42]
BitHub	lul @ In re Bitcoin Devs are idiots	[03:43]
*	gesell (~user@anon-164-36.vpn.ipredator.se) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:43]
dub	BitHub: they kinda are	[03:43]
smickles	i've got an uptodate .7 chain for s2cm funds	[03:43]
BitHub	ima have to read this :)	[03:43]
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mircea_popescu	smickles see if anyone wants to pay you 50 btc for it	[03:44]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[03:44]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.00000, Best ask: 45.10989, Bid-ask spread: 0.10989, Last trade: 45.00000, 24 hour volume: 66465.70498496, 24 hour low: 43.11000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 46.77472	[03:44]
Bowjob	hey	[03:44]
Bowjob	wtf	[03:44]
Bowjob	45	[03:44]
smickles	;;sell 1 "0.7 blockchain" @ 50 btc	[03:45]
gribble	Order id 13963 created.	[03:45]
gesell	Bowjob: see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152030	[03:45]
Bowjob	what bullshit is this	[03:45]
Bowjob	this actually scares me.. that bitcoin can be compromised like this	[03:45]
*	vampireb (~vampireb@blood.vampire.ro) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:45]
mod6	there you go smickles	[03:45]
Bowjob	I thought we're supposed to be unhackable and shit	[03:45]
kakobrekla	lol	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	ahaha	[03:45]
BitHub	yeah bowjob	[03:45]
BitHub	its getting scammy hey	[03:45]
BitHub	the pyramid is being exposed	[03:45]
kakobrekla	btc is fragile as a cracked egg	[03:45]
*	pgp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[03:45]
Bowjob	Everyone move to lite coin!	[03:45]
mod6	i've got a chain that was last updated dec 29th...	[03:46]
kakobrekla	i mean bitcoind	[03:46]
BitHub	just email your wallet.dat to the bitcoin foundation tell them they've won and then hang yourself	[03:46]
mod6	heheh	[03:47]
Bowjob	Umm I'm using electrum does it run ot 0.08	[03:47]
Bowjob	..	[03:47]
Bowjob	wtf	[03:47]
evoorhees	Bowjob don't be a fool. If you actually saw the devs react to this and remedy it, you'd be very impressed	[03:47]
evoorhees	people should expect bugs	[03:47]
evoorhees	it's how resilient btc is in the face of them that matters	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob the design is very strong.	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	the implementation is very poor.	[03:48]
pizzaman1337	mircea_popescu: have you considered hiring people to work on it?	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 suppose bitcoin was written by mpex devs.	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	would you use it ?	[03:49]
pizzaman1337	if everyone else did	[03:49]
dub	bitcoin is so resilient it only took one satoshidice to break it	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	that's no way to go about things.	[03:49]
Bowjob	btc-e trollbox is celebrating	[03:49]
pizzaman1337	so what's the best solution?	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	there's a lot of intrinsic strength in the open and independent dev model.	[03:49]
BitHub	hand the code over to bill gates	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	the problem is that much like anything else of the kind, it depends on keeping politics low.	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	wikipedia for instance is similar, and failed for similar reasons.	[03:49]
gesell	mircea_popescu: shorting possitions on mpex?	[03:49]
BitHub	politics, emotions, egos	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	gesell not so far.	[03:49]
gesell	ack	[03:50]
vampireb	well not a bitcoin issue, the old db was a problem	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	go ahead	[03:50]
gesell	no, just curious	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	vampireb don't you start. read up a little eh.	[03:50]
smickles	gesell: you want to short s.mpoe?	[03:50]
BitHub	why doesn't the bitcoin foundation use all that money to actually hire proper programmers	[03:50]
BitHub	with resumes and stuff	[03:50]
*	pgp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[03:50]
vampireb	hmm? start what? i read pleter's explanation, what isnt clear?	[03:50]
Bowjob	are asics safe and compatible after this?	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	vampireb read up the context in the channel you're talking.	[03:51]
BitHub	isn't that the foundation job? or not really?	[03:51]
gesell	will this spill over into the discussion of soft limits and sdice foo?	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob doesn't have much to do with asics this	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	BitHub well... i have no idea.	[03:51]
Bowjob	k thats all i care about	[03:51]
Bowjob	lol	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	gesell prolly.	[03:51]
benkay	lol@ bithub resumes	[03:51]
dub	gesell: this will spill over into all manner of discussion	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	this will probably be the foundation of all further discussions	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	dja see what i did there ?	[03:51]
smickles	well, if anyone want's to short s.mpoe, i have a fair amout of shares available	[03:51]
BitHub	what is the point of the foundation	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	smickles i think op was discussing shorting btc	[03:52]
smickles	oh	[03:52]
dub	BitHub: they supply the biscuit	[03:52]
smickles	poo	[03:52]
vampireb	i dont have the context, but ok	[03:52]
smickles	buy puts :P	[03:52]
benkay	dub: biscuit?	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	vampireb mkay. who put the db in there ?	[03:52]
dub	the one in the middle	[03:52]
vampireb	who? i dont know, satoshi?	[03:53]
vampireb	bdb has issues, not 0.8	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	right.	[03:53]
dub	;;goxlag	[03:53]
gribble	38.016469 seconds	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	you make an upgrade that fucks up the network, it's not the db, it's not satoshi, it;s you.	[03:53]
dub	;;ticker	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	that's how things work.	[03:53]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.01000, Best ask: 45.90277, Bid-ask spread: 0.89277, Last trade: 46.50000, 24 hour volume: 70342.96544144, 24 hour low: 43.11000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 46.71424	[03:53]
benkay	hurr.	[03:53]
kakobrekla	again	[03:53]
kakobrekla	untradable	[03:53]
benkay	did testnet testing not catch this due to atomic transaction size blah blah?	[03:53]
kakobrekla	38 seconds	[03:53]
kakobrekla	and no ddos afaik	[03:53]
dub	its only 38 man	[03:54]
kakobrekla	fuckin lame	[03:54]
vampireb	well guess what, that's why when I last time I met gavin he was looking to hire QA	[03:54]
kakobrekla	tards.	[03:54]
dub	it was over 2000 last night	[03:54]
dub	with no volume at all	[03:54]
kakobrekla	over 9k really pisses me.	[03:54]
pizzaman1337	kakobrekla: gotta fix it :)	[03:54]
dub	I've only seen it >9000 once	[03:54]
kakobrekla	myea.	[03:55]
dub	but today would be a good candidate	[03:55]
dub	if the 20k failsafe is still there	[03:55]
smickles	"an easy way to do it is to go to home depot with 5 usd, buy stuff to make it happenj"	[03:55]
smickles	;;proxies	[03:56]
gribble	Error: "proxies" is not a valid command.	[03:56]
gesell	dub: 20k failsafe means what?	[03:56]
smickles	$proxies	[03:56]
mpexbot	smickles: ["http://mpex.coinbr.com"]	[03:56]
vampireb	!ticker mpex s.dice	[03:56]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00530001 / 0.00552804 / 0.0059998 (11830 shares, 65.40 BTC), 7D: 0.00300001 / 0.00514724 / 0.006 (228107 shares, 1,174.12 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00614247 / 0.0069 (2518785 shares, 15,471.58 BTC)	[03:56]
smickles	$depth s.dice	[03:57]
mpexbot	smickles: Bids: ['100 @ 530012', '81 @ 530011', '800 @ 530000', '500 @ 520000', '10 @ 520000']	[03:57]
mpexbot	smickles: Asks: ['9299 @ 569996', '1000 @ 569997', '2000 @ 570000', '148 @ 599990', '48346 @ 600000']	[03:57]
smickles	:)	[03:57]
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pizzaman1337	smickles: nice	[03:57]
Bowjob	now lucif is gonna make some bullshit up how he calculated this could happen	[03:57]
Bowjob	and we're gonna look like emperors with no clothes	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	vampireb so he was looking to hire a qa. good for him.	[03:58]
benkay	too bad he never got around to it.	[03:58]
*	davout_ (~davout@85.170.28.19) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:58]
benkay	egg -> face	[03:58]
vampireb	well devs dont wanna do qa, and u can't really qa your own shit	[03:58]
benkay	http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_E1j8gmCIr9w/TIQDRAZ9fbI/AAAAAAAAIOA/lYRso7Tr_fY/s1600/egg+on+your+face.png	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	vampireb so ?	[03:59]
Bowjob	meanwhile, LTC is surging	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob it would.	[03:59]
vampireb	so what? it isn't the end of the world. a minor hiccup	[03:59]
smickles	"Every be very careful about accepting any transactions for the the next few hours" << what is that supposed to mean :P	[03:59]
benkay	i'd take a bearish position on ltc, settled next month...	[04:00]
smickles	how is one to be careful?	[04:00]
the-bucket-shop	never let a tragedy go to waste fellas. Plaster Satoshi Dice's name all over the news and posts if you can.	[04:00]
vampireb	the result: bitcoin foundation would be promoted as a saviour	[04:00]
BitHub	it not the end of the world?	[04:00]
*	BitHub unties his family	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	smickles that incoming txs might be wiped on fork merge	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	vampireb it's hopefully the end of a certain misplace attitude.	[04:01]
gesell	the-bucket-shop: what do you mean?	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	in the devteam.	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	aka "we know shit".	[04:01]
vampireb	attitudes? yea.	[04:01]
*	davout has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[04:01]
the-bucket-shop	I mean satoshidice can get famous off of this news	[04:01]
gesell	also, what effect would this split have on hash/mining opporutunities?	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	gesell it's a temporary thing.	[04:02]
gesell	brief opportunities if that	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	if it's not temporary then there's no mining oportunities	[04:02]
smickles	mircea_popescu: i know, but how would you be careful about it. seems binary to me	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	just stall them	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	im not processing incoming on mpex till its resolved for instance.	[04:02]
gesell	mircea_popescu: even if it is, it will take time for everyone to get on the proper chain, no... since apparently some versions will have to upgrade	[04:02]
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benkay	i'm out. this shit's boring.	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	(course i have the advantaghe that my system is designed so such things don't affect me)	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	gesell it seems downgrade moreover.	[04:03]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[04:03]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 43.50000, Best ask: 44.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.50000, Last trade: 43.10000, 24 hour volume: 75255.63737110, 24 hour low: 43.10000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 46.55735	[04:03]
*	benkay has quit (Quit: benkay)	[04:03]
vampireb	ah good that i sold at 47. need to figure when to rebuy	[04:03]
smickles	2	[04:04]
kakobrekla	ltc crossed 1	[04:04]
gesell	so, just trying to understand this. how is mtgox processing tx's now. this effects minders and merchants, not exchanges?	[04:04]
dub	im buying at $10	[04:04]
vampireb	they dont process tx now?	[04:04]
smickles	gsi don't think they are processing deposits/withdrawals	[04:04]
vampireb	you can trade with existing funds	[04:04]
dub	they dont process tx	[04:04]
dub	unless you fund or withdraw	[04:04]
dub	which is frozen iirc	[04:05]
gesell	dub: perhaps i got the wrong term. if miners and merchants are told to wait, why not exchanges?	[04:05]
vampireb	miners need to switch to 0.7?	[04:05]
smickles	echanges != merchant?	[04:05]
Chaang-Noi	ltc now at all time high to btc, and well over its old all time high to fiat	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	gesell nobody is crediting incoming txs atm	[04:05]
gesell	im trying to guage if there will be a queu of sells waiting to flood through exchanges once things get back to speed	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	withdrawals are fine, but prolly people aren't doing it just to be safe.	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	gesell its possible.	[04:06]
dub	gesell: there will, and wait till it hits the press	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	yeah, outlook is a little bearish i guess	[04:06]
dub	I think $10 might be a bit bullish	[04:06]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker --last	[04:06]
gribble	44.15000	[04:07]
*	pgp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[04:07]
Bowjob	I'm dropping down 200 BTC	[04:07]
pizzaman1337	well, I can't wait to get myself some cheap coins if it drops	[04:07]
gesell	so its a selfish question now but ive always invested long term. and now im wondering if its time to pull and wait	[04:07]
mod6	pizzaman1337: same	[04:07]
Bowjob	pull put. i'll sell 200 BTC for 8k	[04:07]
the-bucket-shop	still 25 coins every 10 minutes as far as I know. long term should be good gesell	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	so far options aren't moving at all.	[04:08]
gesell	the-bucket-shop: the long term is great. but the bible says to be a good steward with your money so im just wondering if im being a total idiot just holding at this point	[04:09]
gesell	;)	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	im guessing people don't judge major drop likely.	[04:09]
smickles	;;view	[04:09]
gribble	#13963 Mon Mar 11 18:45:10 2013 smickles SELL 1.0 0.7 blockchain @ 50 btc (None)	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	got any offers yet ?	[04:09]
smickles	yup	[04:09]
kakobrekla	r u srs?	[04:09]
kakobrekla	ill sell for 25	[04:09]
smickles	nope	[04:10]
smickles	;D	[04:10]
*	pgp (b89808e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.152.8.228) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:10]
gesell	what are you selling smickles, dont get it	[04:10]
kakobrekla	lol	[04:10]
kakobrekla	:D	[04:10]
gesell	just selling the dat files? huh	[04:10]
smickles	gesell: because of the current situation, people who are on .8 and want .7 need to redownload the chain	[04:10]
Bowjob	heck ill sell for $13.29	[04:10]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker --last	[04:10]
gribble	43.49999	[04:10]
Bowjob	what i paid for	[04:10]
Bowjob	lol	[04:10]
smickles	a direct transfer from me to them would be a lot faster	[04:10]
gesell	heh, okay	[04:10]
gesell	im on 0.7 with last update 25 days ago	[04:11]
Chaang-Noi	bit is 42	[04:11]
Chaang-Noi	;;ticker	[04:11]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 43.20000, Best ask: 43.20758, Bid-ask spread: 0.00758, Last trade: 43.20000, 24 hour volume: 81127.52521536, 24 hour low: 42.00000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 46.26895	[04:11]
Chaang-Noi	or was lol	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[04:11]
*	robocoin (~robocoin@unaffiliated/robocoin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:11]
kakobrekla	http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD/accumulated_orderbook.png	[04:12]
smickles	!ticker ^OIX	[04:12]
assbot	You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.	[04:12]
kakobrekla	book aint problematic	[04:12]
the-bucket-shop	hold on if I'm still not upgraded I can sell something?	[04:12]
smickles	$vwap ^oix	[04:12]
mpexbot	smickles: {u'7d': {u'cnt': u'', u'min': u'4086787592', u'max': u'5325215905', u'vsa': u'954675808260', u'vsh': u'no', u'avg': u'5157005239'}, u'30d': {u'cnt': u'', u'min': u'', u'max': u'', u'vsa': u'', u'vsh': u'', u'avg': u''}, u'1d': {u'cnt': u'', u'min': u'', u'max': u'', u'vsa': u'', u'vsh': u'', u'avg': u''}}	[04:12]
the-bucket-shop	I'm trying to catch up	[04:12]
kakobrekla	but its impossible to trade	[04:12]
kakobrekla	with 30 sec lag	[04:12]
dub	its just a correction	[04:12]
smickles	;;goxlag	[04:12]
gribble	157.044926 seconds	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha	[04:12]
kakobrekla	or 157	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	bejaysus	[04:12]
mod6	:/	[04:12]
Bowjob	we need to summon satoshi	[04:13]
Bowjob	Earth!	[04:13]
gesell	does delay translate to some meaningful guage of load on gox?	[04:13]
smickles	the OIX is at 51?	[04:13]
mod6	yea	[04:13]
smickles	wtf?	[04:13]
toffoo	help me satoshi nakamoto, you're our only hope	[04:14]
smickles	;;bc,24hprc	[04:14]
gribble	46.31	[04:14]
mod6	only options today were 192 CALL @ 47	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	smickles nothing moved.	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	yet at least.	[04:15]
dub	gesell: it translates to 'gox is incapable of handling moderate load'	[04:15]
smickles	;;calc 41/1.11	[04:15]
gribble	36.9369369369	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	dub for some values of moderate such as	[04:15]
smickles	;;calc 43/1.14	[04:15]
gribble	37.7192982456	[04:15]
gesell	hmm, any predictions on bit bets effected by this	[04:15]
dub	gesell: alternatively 'bitcoin is a joke'	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	"what the average metro payment terminal in tokyo processes"	[04:15]
smickles	;;calc 75/1.62	[04:15]
gribble	46.2962962963	[04:15]
smickles	woops	[04:16]
smickles	;;calc 75/1.79	[04:16]
gribble	41.8994413408	[04:16]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[04:16]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 42.00000, Best ask: 42.99000, Bid-ask spread: 0.99000, Last trade: 42.99000, 24 hour volume: 82087.73745767, 24 hour low: 42.00000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 46.19856	[04:16]
pizzaman1337	$1 spread	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	oh i see the girl is adequately incensed	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	paying her in btc was the best move ever.	[04:16]
dub	lol	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	she's like "they did what"	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	and im like "yes. here's pike bring heads"	[04:17]
dub	no rly?	[04:17]
dub	No cause we're too cool for testnet and elbow grease, gotta spend 16 hours a day on -dev talking about what we think of Satoshi Dice and how many whales fatass Gmaxwell could swallow whole.	[04:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 10 @ 0.79079695 = 7.908 BTC [-]	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:18]
mod6	bunch of cock-meat sandwiches	[04:18]
dub	man, if those ddos kids were on to it	[04:19]
dub	they could REALLY fuck shit up right now	[04:19]
*	pgp2 (~pgp@184.152.8.228) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	ya let's keep that part a little quieter shall we.	[04:19]
kakobrekla	:D	[04:19]
dub	but I want $2	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless.	[04:19]
smickles	i see that as a goos ~8 btc spent	[04:20]
smickles	*good	[04:20]
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gesell	this one might get closer http://bitbet.us/bet/283/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-hit-50-in-march/	[04:20]
ThickAsThieves	so in a situation like this, where the usd/btc may fall on confidence, am i safer being mostly invested in assets?	[04:20]
*	pgp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[04:20]
ThickAsThieves	or more exposed?	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves possibly. hard to gauge	[04:20]
davout	why are you guys even here	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	we have very little mkt history to go by	[04:20]
davout	all the cool kids are on bitcoin-dev	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	davout urmom was on the rag.	[04:20]
gesell	davout: to take advantage of fallouts?	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	no, only the dubiously metrosexual are on -dev	[04:21]
*	tbcoin (~tbcoin@81.61.86.183.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:21]
smickles	ThickAsThieves: if a significat amount of investors view their assets in terms of usd, then mebbe	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	smickles this is the time to buy eskimoblobs thing!	[04:21]
smickles	else: no	[04:21]
ThickAsThieves	i spent all day buying ltc assets	[04:21]
grubles	where da ltc assets at	[04:21]
smickles	mircea_popescu: no, this was clearly the time to <@assbot> [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 10 @ 0.79079695 = 7.908 BTC [-]	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	grubles btcto ?	[04:21]
ThickAsThieves	litecoinglobal.com	[04:22]
davout	bitcoin just became fun again	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	smickles short puts ?	[04:22]
smickles	well, from your end	[04:22]
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the-bucket-shop	I think s.dice and bitvps would benefit. except that s.dice money faucet is turned off.	[04:22]
the-bucket-shop	because of a bad btc price	[04:22]
grubles	mircea_popescu: link?	[04:22]
gesell	davout: totally	[04:22]
*	knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[04:22]
gesell	;;goxlag	[04:23]
gribble	199.519792 seconds	[04:23]
smickles	mircea_popescu: i bought them, if the bc,24hprc moves to the current spot, they break even	[04:23]
kakobrekla	...	[04:23]
kakobrekla	go gox.	[04:23]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker --last	[04:23]
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gribble	41.40000	[04:23]
smickles	wasn't it over 1500 goxlag the other day	[04:23]
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pgp2	coinbr down again?	[04:24]
gesell	by all intents and purposes this is most definitely a crash	[04:24]
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dub	this is early days	[04:24]
smickles	lol, coinbr down. mpex.coinbr up	[04:25]
vampireb	imo a crash is good	[04:25]
davout	is mtgox even still trading ?	[04:25]
dub	crash comes when the media wakes up	[04:25]
smickles	mircea_popescu: i also have those p310t's i bought a while back	[04:25]
davout	dub: not necessarily if it was taken care of quickly	[04:25]
Bowjob	All right, I'm not panicking. Stay frosty	[04:25]
gesell	Bowjob: don't panik, just buy when it all settles	[04:26]
gesell	well	[04:26]
dub	;;goxlag	[04:26]
gesell	i shouldnt give any advice. i dont know jack. but i will hedge a little when it bottoms out anyway, for myself	[04:26]
gribble	256.034339 seconds	[04:26]
smickles	best thing to do now is buy beer with bitcoin	[04:26]
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kakobrekla	;;ticer	[04:26]
gribble	Error: "ticer" is not a valid command.	[04:26]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[04:26]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 41.21110, Best ask: 41.40000, Bid-ask spread: 0.18890, Last trade: 41.40000, 24 hour volume: 86823.51454120, 24 hour low: 41.20000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.94411	[04:26]
smickles	possibly free beer	[04:26]
dub	gox is trying to trade as always	[04:26]
Bowjob	actually, I could sell a few coins and buy back cheaper	[04:27]
Bowjob	mhm	[04:27]
dub	the little trading engine that could	[04:27]
dub	('nt)	[04:27]
mircea_popescu	sorry grubles link for what ?	[04:27]
Chaang-Noi	odd 12 ours oga this chan was dead as dead, wake up to panic, ahhh btc :)	[04:28]
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mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[04:29]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 40.60269, Best ask: 41.20000, Bid-ask spread: 0.59731, Last trade: 41.20000, 24 hour volume: 91789.11504056, 24 hour low: 40.01110, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.66073	[04:29]
mircea_popescu	holy.	[04:29]
Bowjob	lol	[04:29]
Bowjob	Brb, panicking now	[04:29]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[04:30]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 40.37260, Best ask: 40.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.12740, Last trade: 40.50000, 24 hour volume: 91802.34794623, 24 hour low: 40.01110, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.65939	[04:30]
Chaang-Noi	gox cant fall to far..people cant send gox coins to sell :)	[04:30]
wiggzz	so what're the running odds that puts on mpex actually pay out if btc crashes very low?	[04:30]
mircea_popescu	that's a point.	[04:30]
mircea_popescu	wiggzz 100%.	[04:30]
wiggzz	are they hedged?	[04:31]
pizzaman1337	Chaang-Noi: but when they open it up, there could be a selloff	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	yes, the only way to write them is by depositing capital	[04:31]
Chaang-Noi	after 6 trasactions could be a sell off yes... but people seeing it is fixed will be like, cheap coinz!!!!!!!	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 very likely actually.	[04:31]
Chaang-Noi	im pretty sure i know how this drama will play out	[04:31]
wiggzz	but, on a put required capital is not as great as they can fall	[04:31]
Chaang-Noi	fiat in the gox will beat the 6 confirm sell off	[04:32]
gesell	something that really disturbs me right now is the number of way overpriced buy bids still sitting on bitcoin.de (a p2p exchange with pretty high volume)	[04:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C490N] 10 @ 0.1721919 = 1.7219 BTC	[04:32]
Chaang-Noi	even if we go to $25 we will bounce right back up if this shit gets sorted quickly	[04:32]
Chaang-Noi	btw eta on this being fixed?	[04:32]
gesell	mtgox price is at 31eu but you could still sell on bitcoin.de for 36	[04:32]
Bowjob	should be a few hours	[04:32]
pizzaman1337	Chaang-Noi: as soon as the 0.7 chain is longer, I think. Not sure how far behind it is.	[04:32]
the-bucket-shop	gesell what time is it in de 4 am?	[04:33]
gesell	yeah 3:30	[04:33]
kakobrekla	;;goxlag	[04:33]
gribble	299.836034 seconds	[04:33]
Chaang-Noi	yeah id like to know the leanth of the chains	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	wiggzz puts are bounded by fiat value	[04:33]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	you can't make more than 50 bucks on a 50 struck put	[04:33]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 40.01000, Best ask: 40.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.49000, Last trade: 40.01000, 24 hour volume: 92084.38009144, 24 hour low: 40.01000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.64045	[04:33]
kakobrekla	we are at 35 or 45 imho	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla likely 35-37 ya	[04:33]
gesell	im a bit worried selling on bitcoin.de though because if the buyer doesnt care to loose a bit of reputation they could just backout	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	Chaang-Noi i would guess it will be solved within a couple of hourd.	[04:34]
gesell	35, really? what, end of the month or just tomorrow or something?	[04:34]
Chaang-Noi	okay, ill go pay insurance for my truck.. and ship off some wild honey... i need to get afk anyway:)	[04:34]
gesell	the thing with the bitcoin market is the reaction extends over a long period. so what you see happening now will continue in a similar manner with the EU wakes up	[04:34]
kakobrekla	hey, EU is awake	[04:35]
gesell	nope	[04:35]
kakobrekla	well we are up	[04:35]
kakobrekla	me mircea_popescu and jurov	[04:35]
kakobrekla	is there some one else relevant?	[04:35]
wiggzz	right, but in BTC the required collateral was only strike / spot	[04:35]
gesell	ive watched it happen. a lul for a few hours then around 10am de time (8 9 whatever UK) a lot of activity	[04:35]
Bowjob	;;eightball Is this the end for bitcoin?	[04:35]
gribble	No chance.	[04:35]
mod6	:]	[04:35]
Bowjob	The eightball has spoken!	[04:36]
pizzaman1337	kakobrekla: I'm not really relevant, but most of the time I'm over there	[04:36]
Bowjob	Everyone quit panicking, its just a few blocks. Tomorrow, we shall see $50	[04:36]
*	jMyles (~slashroot@rrcs-184-74-36-65.nys.biz.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:36]
mod6	i <3 gribble	[04:36]
Chaang-Noi	davout> Chaang-Noi: approx 12 blocks difference	[04:36]
kakobrekla	pizzaman1337 i was just messing with gesell	[04:36]
pizzaman1337	:)	[04:36]
gesell	Bowjob: im not paniking. just aknowledging that the market is filled with a significant number of people investing more short term that will panik	[04:36]
dub	;;ticker	[04:37]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 39.00000, Best ask: 40.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 40.00000, 24 hour volume: 99762.92721491, 24 hour low: 38.01051, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.12452	[04:37]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker --last	[04:37]
gribble	40.00000	[04:37]
kakobrekla	a round number!	[04:37]
pizzaman1337	quick, take a screenshot!	[04:37]
kakobrekla	quick play SD	[04:37]
dub	shit is broken?	[04:37]
kakobrekla	prolly	[04:37]
smickles	wiggzz: the additions funds needed would probably come from mpbor	[04:37]
kakobrekla	;;goxlag	[04:37]
gribble	355.023263 seconds	[04:37]
wiggzz	say you write a put at 21, with USDBTC at 40, required collateral is 0.525 BTC?	[04:37]
kakobrekla	so does lag go only up?	[04:38]
*	davout_ (~davout@85-170-28-19.rev.numericable.fr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:38]
wiggzz	but if USDBTC drops to 1, payout is 20 USD which would be 20 BTC... way more than required collateral?	[04:38]
kakobrekla	imma go long on lag	[04:38]
smickles	wiggzz: the mpbor assumes the risk of mpex options	[04:38]
kakobrekla	who can help me out?	[04:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P430T] 1000 @ 0.14725493 = 147.2549 BTC [+]	[04:38]
smickles	kakobrekla: help with what?	[04:38]
pigeons	i'll take the over on lag	[04:39]
*	mrdavis (~mrdavis@d118-75-117-26.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	heh there we go	[04:39]
kakobrekla	smickles to go long on lag	[04:39]
pizzaman1337	we need an MPSIC for goxlag	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[04:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P450T] 1000 @ 0.17572879 = 175.7288 BTC [+]	[04:39]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 40.86787592 / 51.57005239 / 53.25215905 (no shares, 9,546.76 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[04:39]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[04:39]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 37.90000, Best ask: 38.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 38.00000, 24 hour volume: 101521.68067860, 24 hour low: 37.90000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.00561	[04:39]
smickles	woo	[04:40]
kakobrekla	deep.	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	wiggzz that issue is taken care of by a little insurance premium on oputs issuance	[04:40]
smickles	;;bids 31	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	and in exchange i settle puts in fiat in case of utter collapse	[04:40]
gribble	There are currently 33593.186 bitcoins demanded at or over 31.0 USD, worth 1149514.37586 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0061 seconds	[04:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P430T] 1000 @ 0.15522008 = 155.2201 BTC [+]	[04:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P450T] 1000 @ 0.18486613 = 184.8661 BTC [+]	[04:40]
wiggzz	ok, good to know	[04:41]
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*	davout has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[04:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P390T] 1000 @ 0.1040628 = 104.0628 BTC [+]	[04:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P410T] 1000 @ 0.12826263 = 128.2626 BTC [+]	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[04:41]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 40.86787592 / 51.57005239 / 53.25215905 (no shares, 9,546.76 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[04:41]
*	LiquidBits (~LiquidBit@cpe-65-28-101-61.kc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	no srsly ?	[04:42]
Chaang-Noi	i should have shorted btc :)	[04:42]
smickles	mircea_popescu: is that unchanged on the 7day?	[04:42]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[04:42]
*	vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)	[04:42]
kakobrekla	;;goxlag	[04:43]
gribble	365.309178 seconds	[04:43]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 37.80000, Best ask: 38.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 38.00000, 24 hour volume: 101597.26956421, 24 hour low: 37.80000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 45.00044	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	smickles yeh. i wonder wtf.	[04:43]
smickles	$vwap ^oix	[04:43]
mpexbot	smickles: {u'7d': {u'cnt': u'', u'min': u'4086787592', u'max': u'5325215905', u'vsa': u'954675808260', u'vsh': u'no', u'avg': u'5157005239'}, u'30d': {u'cnt': u'', u'min': u'', u'max': u'', u'vsa': u'', u'vsh': u'', u'avg': u''}, u'1d': {u'cnt': u'', u'min': u'', u'max': u'', u'vsa': u'', u'vsh': u'', u'avg': u''}}	[04:43]
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smickles	;;bc,24hprc	[04:43]
gribble	45.11	[04:43]
wiggzz	bitcoin.clarkmoody.com down...	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	heh	[04:46]
Bowjob	$45.51	[04:47]
Bowjob	according to coinlab	[04:47]
Bowjob	lol	[04:47]
dub	;;goxlag	[04:47]
gribble	564.66904 seconds	[04:47]
Bowjob	damn	[04:47]
kakobrekla	37 on bitstamp	[04:47]
Bowjob	89 min ago	[04:47]
dub	nicely scaling there gox	[04:47]
dub	linear even	[04:48]
gesell	;;goxlag	[04:48]
gribble	584.930613 seconds	[04:48]
kakobrekla	so gox is turning in historcial btc chart reading site	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:48]
Bowjob	how much will BTC drop by do you think	[04:48]
Chaang-Noi	https://coinbase.com/network/blocks block races website	[04:48]
kakobrekla	this is a serious problem	[04:48]
gesell	to $25	[04:48]
kakobrekla	even if you guys find it funny	[04:49]
kakobrekla	serious tranders dont suffer shit like this	[04:49]
kakobrekla	traders	[04:49]
kakobrekla	you want to bring wall street to btc?	[04:49]
pigeons	https://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks	[04:49]
kakobrekla	kill gox	[04:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C410T] 7 @ 0.12612881 = 0.8829 BTC [-]	[04:50]
gesell	kakobrekla: first, im sorry this is all happening. im sure it is ruining some peoples day. but why do you see it as a mtgox problem?	[04:50]
Chaang-Noi	pigeons see my link, i found that helpful	[04:50]
smickles	gesell: traditional markes shut down at times like these	[04:50]
kakobrekla	lol	[04:50]
kakobrekla	tell me something	[04:50]
kakobrekla	when you go to a foregin country	[04:51]
kakobrekla	and you need some of their currecny	[04:51]
kakobrekla	do you go to your FX broker to get it?	[04:51]
pizzaman1337	I wish	[04:51]
kakobrekla	or to buy phycal gold?	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla you're telling me ?	[04:51]
kakobrekla	im telling gesell	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	fuycking painful shit.	[04:51]
dub	whats a time like this for traditional markets?	[04:51]
kakobrekla	or if you trade stocks	[04:51]
kakobrekla	do you have a broker	[04:51]
*	wiggzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	pigeons are we merged ?	[04:52]
kakobrekla	or do you go on the trading floor yourself	[04:52]
kakobrekla	and yell there	[04:52]
smickles	dub: movements over x%	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	halelujah	[04:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C450T] 1 @ 0.17769942 BTC [-]	[04:52]
gesell	kakobrekla: sorry, im not following	[04:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C450T] 9 @ 0.12120114 = 1.0908 BTC [-]	[04:52]
kakobrekla	:	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	11 blocks	[04:52]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker --last	[04:52]
gribble	36.80000	[04:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P390T] 1000 @ 0.10590572 = 105.9057 BTC [+]	[04:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P430T] 1000 @ 0.15775711 = 157.7571 BTC [+]	[04:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P410T] 1000 @ 0.13044382 = 130.4438 BTC [+]	[04:53]
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Bowjob	;;ticker	[04:53]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 36.68160, Best ask: 38.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.31840, Last trade: 38.00000, 24 hour volume: 105824.64907266, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.68534	[04:53]
Bowjob	Are we allowed to do transactions	[04:53]
Bowjob	?	[04:53]
smickles	yea	[04:54]
smickles	it might be risky on the chain tho	[04:54]
gesell	i dont know, im not a fan of kill switches so i'd like to see bitcoin-dev's learn from this so that similar bugs in the future can be handled without shutting anything down	[04:54]
gesell	;;goxlag	[04:55]
gribble	444.693169 seconds	[04:55]
Bowjob	I can sell coins now at 38.50 now	[04:55]
Bowjob	before this shit blows out of proportions	[04:55]
smickles	goxlag is dropping?	[04:55]
smickles	it was over 600 a moment ago	[04:55]
gesell	;;goxlag-but-make-it-intersting-please	[04:55]
gribble	Error: "goxlag-but-make-it-intersting-please" is not a valid command.	[04:55]
gesell	;;goxlag	[04:56]
gribble	369.036619 seconds	[04:56]
smickles	gesell: i think most btc exchanges are anti-killswitch	[04:56]
smickles	;;bc,24hprc	[04:57]
gribble	44.92	[04:57]
gesell	;;goxlag	[04:58]
smickles	;;calc 45/1.18	[04:58]
gribble	38.1355932203	[04:58]
gribble	338.887145 seconds	[04:58]
*	jMyles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[04:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P370T] 1000 @ 0.08420338 = 84.2034 BTC [+]	[04:59]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[04:59]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 39.01138, Best ask: 40.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.98862, Last trade: 40.00000, 24 hour volume: 107876.01377001, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.55733	[04:59]
*	vampireb (~vampireb@208.117.34.111) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:59]
kakobrekla	this somehow reminds me of http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/estimation.png	[04:59]
dub	lol	[05:00]
gesell	question... so just curious would the initial errors that 0.7 clients were reporting (http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=30587843) that sipa mentions, would those just be bug reports to bitcointalk or to sourceforge bug tracker or? just curious where alerts of such issues before its plastered everywhere would come from	[05:01]
*	PeterL (6ccced1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.204.237.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:01]
gesell	did anyone see where this first started and was coming to the surface?	[05:01]
the-bucket-shop	blockchain.info is still scrolling satoshidice bets. I wonder which blockchain	[05:02]
dub	they only disabled payouts	[05:03]
dub	(obv)	[05:03]
kakobrekla	;;goxlag	[05:03]
gribble	483.195032 seconds	[05:03]
gesell	i wonder if apart from the discussion about soft limits, we will also start to see features that give more oversight and regulation, even if more symbolic than bernanke like. such letting bitcoin-dev patch or blacklist more quickly or perhaps at will	[05:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 23 @ 0.86122741 = 19.8082 BTC [+]	[05:04]
Bowjob	Aight, I guaratneed 75 BTC to be sold at.. $2799	[05:05]
Bowjob	for the next 3 hours	[05:05]
Bowjob	lets see what happenes	[05:05]
dub	gesell: the attitude of the dev team has always been that bitcoin is their little science experiment and its not intended for production	[05:05]
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Uglux	I'm back to save the day	[05:06]
Uglux	lol	[05:06]
kakobrekla	no no	[05:06]
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*	kakobrekla is now known as digiJesusSatoshi	[05:06]
digiJesusSatoshi	must be liek dat.	[05:07]
gesell	dub: i dont think my statement disagress with that at all. just looking at new horizons for the experiment	[05:07]
digiJesusSatoshi	Luke-Jr YOU MUST BEHAVE U HEAR ME	[05:07]
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*	digiJesusSatoshi is now known as kakobrekla	[05:07]
dub	you're going to have a hard time selling these guys oversight	[05:07]
gesell	dub: i agree. if it comes though it would be slowly and with a different label	[05:08]
*	topace_ (~kvirc@CPEc0c1c03be745-CM00407b85cf6f.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:09]
pigeons	gesell: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/ca7739797ce7990ebb9f33852412f2c3f6950b0d	[05:09]
gesell	saw it	[05:09]
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*	topace_ (~kvirc@unaffiliated/topace) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:09]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[05:10]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 42.60000, Best ask: 42.65559, Bid-ask spread: 0.05559, Last trade: 42.60000, 24 hour volume: 109984.04612509, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.45198	[05:10]
*	Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:10]
Bowjob	hey did we recover	[05:10]
gesell	this event is fascinating actually	[05:10]
*	davout_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[05:10]
kakobrekla	nature is amazing. ~ ron swanson	[05:10]
vampireb	not recovered, there still a fork.	[05:10]
vampireb	;;ticker	[05:12]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 42.60000, Best ask: 42.72770, Bid-ask spread: 0.12770, Last trade: 42.60000, 24 hour volume: 109893.67866310, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.44885	[05:12]
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dub	;;goxlag	[05:13]
gribble	482.005774 seconds	[05:13]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[05:13]
gribble	Current Blocks: 225452 \| Current Difficulty: 4367876.000842196 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 225791 \| Next Difficulty In: 339 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 21 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[05:13]
dub	;;bc,price	[05:14]
gribble	Next Price Estimate: 46.86 \| Next Price In About 3 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes, and 34 seconds	[05:14]
ThickAsThieves	lies	[05:14]
Bowjob	;;eightball How's LTC	[05:15]
gribble	One would be wise to think so.	[05:15]
Bowjob	erm, i shoulda asked a yes or no q	[05:16]
Bowjob	lol	[05:16]
gesell	blacklistblock = regulation. though peer agreed. which is fascinating because we do not have such language in traditional finance	[05:16]
*	dust-otc (~dust-otc@unaffiliated/dust-otc) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:16]
gesell	or we do but a bit more abstracted and not so clear as it is here	[05:16]
kakobrekla	http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD/accumulated_orderbook.png	[05:17]
kakobrekla	looks like flipper.	[05:17]
gesell	that is a huge spread	[05:17]
kakobrekla	pres B for left side and S for right side	[05:17]
kakobrekla	play!	[05:17]
Line_	In gaven we trust	[05:17]
*	davout_ (~davout@85-170-28-19.rev.numericable.fr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:18]
Bowjob	Maybe Satoshi is looking from afar	[05:18]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[05:19]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 44.00000, Best ask: 44.03000, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 44.00000, 24 hour volume: 111563.57296537, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.44028	[05:19]
*	davout has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[05:20]
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gesell	just for the record the drop started at 2:41am GMT+1 (had some logs)	[05:21]
davos	Bowjob: I'd rather put money on satoshi being 2 or 3 people over in -dev	[05:21]
ThickAsThieves	;;eightball Buy! Buy! Buy?	[05:22]
gribble	_I_ don't know.	[05:22]
Bowjob	;;eightball Is Satoshi Nakamoto 1 person?	[05:22]
gribble	What are you asking me for?	[05:22]
Bowjob	>_>	[05:22]
*	FabianB_ (~ogg@unaffiliated/fabianb) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:23]
ThickAsThieves	;;eightball Sell all BTC for LTC?	[05:23]
gribble	The outlook is good.	[05:23]
gesell	"(04:04:59) gmaxwell: jeffgarzik is /msging me telling me that jgarzik is an imposter." --- heh, and people still have the heart to troll. oh internets	[05:23]
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mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[05:24]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00000039 / 0.00000053 / 0.00000053 (50897 shares, 0.00 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[05:24]
*	FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[05:24]
smickles	mircea_popescu: what's up with that?	[05:25]
ThickAsThieves	oix killed bitcoin	[05:25]
mircea_popescu	smickles i just dug up oix to see wtf.	[05:25]
gesell	;;ticker --last	[05:26]
gribble	45.00000	[05:26]
gesell	;;goxlag	[05:26]
gribble	559.099063 seconds	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	but basically nothing is wrong with it	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	just... the weight of the calls sold is so much heavier than the weight of the puts bought just now	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	that the oix still points to high btc	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	so it is working as intended, be that useful or not	[05:26]
Bowjob	so its still bullish btc?	[05:27]
ThickAsThieves	devs dont seem to be using public chat now	[05:27]
ThickAsThieves	btc always bullish (in betweeen crashes)	[05:27]
smickles	mircea_popescu: isn't it off by about 8 digits?	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[05:28]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 39.89104856 / 0.00000053 / 53.27237035 (50897 shares, 0.00 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[05:28]
Bowjob	okay everything fixed	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	heh yeah 1 sec	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	bad cache	[05:28]
smickles	http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school:chart_analysis:chart_patterns:double_top_reversal	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[05:29]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 39.89104856 / 53.82025731 / 53.27237035 (50897 shares, 0.00 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[05:29]
smickles	yay:D	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	wait volume went away nao lo;	[05:30]
smickles	$markov	[05:30]
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mpexbot	mircea_popescu: your blog fails to load	[05:30]
smickles	lol	[05:31]
*	vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)	[05:31]
mircea_popescu	lol	[05:32]
BitHub	how many hours till next asicminer divy?	[05:35]
BitHub	48?	[05:35]
gesell	;;goxlag	[05:36]
gribble	166.108439 seconds	[05:36]
pizzaman1337	;;ticker --last	[05:37]
gribble	44.90000	[05:37]
topace_	jesus whats going on with the blockchain??	[05:39]
pizzaman1337	http://bitcoin.org/chainfork.html	[05:39]
smickles	know waht? pps pool are boned	[05:39]
kakobrekla	bitcoin split, price crashed all while you were takign a piss	[05:40]
kakobrekla	all well now.	[05:40]
BitHub	safe to recieve payments again?	[05:40]
smickles	nope	[05:40]
smickles	you ought to wait until the .7 (short) chain grows longer than the main chain	[05:41]
smickles	and some miners are still adding to the main chain	[05:41]
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ThickAsThieves	Schrödinger's BitBet - This bet will have more total BTC bet on Yes than on No before it closes.	[05:41]
smickles	and there is still confusion among the devs	[05:41]
ThickAsThieves	good?	[05:41]
pizzaman1337	ThickAsThieves: awesome	[05:42]
ThickAsThieves	i had a few ideas for meta bets	[05:42]
ThickAsThieves	had to submit one	[05:42]
BitHub	hmmm	[05:43]
kakobrekla	dunno if those are approved	[05:43]
BitHub	so if someone sends me coins now they're gone for good?	[05:43]
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ThickAsThieves	the bet has a fault, or a bonus depending on how you look at it	[05:44]
kakobrekla	imho they will be respendable with the longer chain not containing that tx	[05:44]
ThickAsThieves	people will bet til it closes ... and after	[05:44]
the-bucket-shop	ThickAsThievs - you just blew my mind	[05:45]
kakobrekla	which mean a few bitbets will have to be invalidated	[05:45]
kakobrekla	or something	[05:45]
kakobrekla	dunno	[05:45]
kakobrekla	>The risk is small because this is not a network split-- transactions are being sent to both sides of the chain split, and it is unlikely (but possible) that somebody could get two versions of the same transaction into the two sides of the chain.	[05:46]
kakobrekla	ah	[05:46]
kakobrekla	apparently not a real problem	[05:46]
smickles	< BitHub> so if someone sends me coins now they're gone for good? << no, it's up to which chain it's included in	[05:46]
*	TradeFortress (~TradeFort@58.111.143.105) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:47]
BitHub	mmk	[05:47]
smickles	basically, it's just risky	[05:47]
kakobrekla	totoally oposite of bitcoin in general.	[05:47]
smickles	yup	[05:48]
kakobrekla	fuckin keboard fails	[05:48]
mircea_popescu	and it is unlikely (but possible) <><< yeah. they know.	[05:48]
mircea_popescu	because it's just a prototype, right ?	[05:48]
mircea_popescu	what is the barrier to entry to this, make two txs,b roadcast it to two diff nodes.	[05:49]
kakobrekla	the version is below 1 right?	[05:49]
kakobrekla	so don fuck around.	[05:49]
gesell	;;goxlag	[05:50]
gribble	17.295316 seconds	[05:50]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[05:50]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.01000, Best ask: 45.89900, Bid-ask spread: 0.88900, Last trade: 45.00000, 24 hour volume: 119265.24377758, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.50395	[05:50]
topace_	how can you tell if your bitcoin daemon is on the right chain?	[05:50]
topace_	(on the 0.7 chain)	[05:50]
smickles	topace_: as a regualr user, i dunno. but it'll switch over automatically when the .7 chain is longer	[05:51]
kakobrekla	by the block height	[05:51]
kakobrekla	?	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	topace_ you can't	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	bsically.	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	cause it's not a matter of your daemon	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	you just emit txs. the miners add them on their mempools	[05:52]
mircea_popescu	you have no idea what they run	[05:52]
smickles	right now, you can 'bitcoind getinfo' and look at the height. current 'wrong' chain is at 225453, .7 is at 225442	[05:53]
kakobrekla	what i said.	[05:53]
smickles	kakobrekla: but the differenc will be more and more difficult to tell soon	[05:54]
kakobrekla	yep	[05:54]
mircea_popescu	good luck getting the miners to accept a 14 block loss	[05:54]
mircea_popescu	that's like 350 btc	[05:54]
kakobrekla	pool are gonna hurt	[05:54]
smickles	mircea_popescu: some arn't, the largest pools are	[05:54]
*	robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[05:55]
smickles	only pps pools are fucked	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	smickles explain why the "wrong" one is longer then.	[05:55]
kakobrekla	good day for not to be a pool op	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla it prolly destroyes those unfortunate fucks that paid out on the 0 diff	[05:55]
smickles	mircea_popescu: it mined a block sized larger than 250k	[05:55]
smickles	funny, no?	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	no i meant blocvk height	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	the wrong chain is lionger yet you're telling me the miners are moving.	[05:56]
mircea_popescu	proof ?	[05:56]
smickles	the wrong one mined a block which .7 clients couldn't see	[05:56]
mircea_popescu	yeah...	[05:56]
dub	good day for not being the guild pool op	[05:56]
smickles	mircea_popescu: look at blockchain.info, the major pools are mining an orphaned chain	[05:56]
dub	double whammy there	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	EXACTLY	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	and my point is, they will continue to do so.	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	because they have no incentive not to.	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	and if they move back in they're 400 btc out.	[05:57]
smickles	you've got it backwards tho	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	have i ?	[05:57]
kakobrekla	well bitbet seems to be on the right one	[05:57]
smickles	the orphaned chain is the 'right' one	[05:57]
smickles	it's just not long enough yet	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	ah	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	this makes sense.	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	let me guess... so the longer chain is the wrong one. because that's why it's longer	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	cause nobody mines on it.	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	wtf ?!	[05:58]
smickles	yeah, gotta love all those peeps encouraging the pool ops to mine blocks larger than 250k b/c of SD	[05:58]
gesell	the crash and recovery in ascii glory http://i.imgur.com/hgYAta0.gif	[05:58]
smickles	they mined on the 'wrong' one for some time b/f peeps realized there was a problem	[05:58]
smickles	now the 'right' one is trying to catch up	[05:59]
Bowjob	i thoguht its solved already	[05:59]
mircea_popescu	i love the various people on bitcointalk trying to move the conversation	[05:59]
mircea_popescu	anywhere but away from the point that devs fucked up	[05:59]
smickles	Bowjob: they have a band=aid fix, revert to the old chain	[05:59]
mircea_popescu	anything and everything shall be discussed, but god forbid someone gets bitchslapped	[05:59]
*	pgp2 (~pgp@184.152.8.228) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:59]
Bowjob	and i hope everyone is actually mining on the 0.72 chain	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob we see their rate of gain	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	if in an hour the "werong" one is +2...	[06:00]
smickles	Bowjob: some are, some arnt	[06:00]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[06:00]
gribble	Current Blocks: 225453 \| Current Difficulty: 4367876.000842196 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 225791 \| Next Difficulty In: 338 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 21 hours, 4 minutes, and 0 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[06:00]
smickles	225453 is the 'wrong' chain	[06:00]
smickles	225443 is the .7 chain	[06:01]
kakobrekla	from now on ill be runing 0.1 legacy	[06:01]
smickles	if i had enough coins to justify it, i might run one of each	[06:01]
smickles	it's only 8 right now	[06:02]
smickles	ya know, there's a chance this band-aid fix won't work, the .8 chain looks like it might be going faster than the .7	[06:03]
error4733	BFL_Josh : 11 March 2013 Update : Say what you want about BFL, but we make ASICs look good.	[06:03]
error4733	best joke ever	[06:04]
Bowjob	They make Avalon look good	[06:04]
Bowjob	heck, Avalons come with gloves	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	smickles aha	[06:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P730T] 15 @ 0.81355 = 12.2033 BTC [-]	[06:06]
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Bowjob	mhm.. http://coinlab.com/	[06:07]
Bowjob	watching this is entertaining as fuck	[06:07]
PeterL	The 'right' chain is definately catching up to the 'wrong' one	[06:07]
PeterL	I think in the past hour the 'right' chain has gone up 5 blocks, the 'wrong' one has gone up 2	[06:08]
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mircea_popescu	PeterL they're even now or am i on delayed data ?	[06:08]
smickles	ah, i think i screwed up my look at it then	[06:09]
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smickles	they're still 9 blocks from forcing the switch	[06:09]
smickles	8 blocks to be even	[06:10]
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*	Chilca_ (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:11]
PeterL	how will this outage affect satoshiDice share price?	[06:11]
Bowjob	bt we're winnign at least	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	is the wrong one taller than 445 ?	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m s.dice	[06:11]
smickles	453	[06:11]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00530001 / 0.00551785 / 0.00569996 (11580 shares, 63.90 BTC), 7D: 0.00300001 / 0.0051045 / 0.006 (200407 shares, 1,022.98 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00614247 / 0.0069 (2518785 shares, 15,471.58 BTC)	[06:11]
*	Chilca has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	PeterL so far doesn't seem to have affected it	[06:12]
*	error4733 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[06:12]
*	Guest00001 is now known as error4733	[06:12]
smickles	PeterL: it was the anti-SD'ers who forced this issue	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	smickles the 250k arbitrary limit had to go anyway	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	it had no point being there in the first place	[06:12]
smickles	yeah, but not now. it could've undergone more testing	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	not putting bullshit in the codebase takes no testing	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	it just takes some firm adherence to coding principle.	[06:13]
smickles	so you think there should be no limit?	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	the 1mb limit is THE limit.	[06:13]
kakobrekla	why a souch arbitrary number	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	they need to go through the whole code and take out all the bs of the sort.	[06:14]
kakobrekla	its no better than 250k	[06:14]
kakobrekla	really	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	yeah, but	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	the 1mb is baked in now	[06:14]
Bowjob	If we hit 1mb limit	[06:14]
Bowjob	then what	[06:14]
Bowjob	lol	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	the (undocumented) limit to client tx size for instance, is not.	[06:15]
smickles	txfees rise	[06:15]
Bowjob	Satoshi envisioned 100 GB per day	[06:15]
gesell	jesus multiplied 7 fishes	[06:17]
Bowjob	he had fishes under the table	[06:17]
smickles	btcguild gunning for 5 in a row now	[06:17]
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mod6	http://youtu.be/c0SuIMUoShI << my gf sends her regards	[06:18]
mod6	:	[06:20]
smickles	ya know, it's quite possible that there is only one electron in the whole universe	[06:21]
jborkl_	better not tell the protons	[06:21]
smickles	the protons can't tell one electron from the other anyway	[06:23]
smickles	they all look alike	[06:23]
mod6	depends on the scale. at the plank scale everything is a different	[06:23]
mod6	s/a//	[06:24]
mod6	so there is a 1mb limit now?	[06:24]
dub	no theres a 250k limit	[06:24]
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smickles	mod6: i thought all electrons were indistinguishable as far as our best tech can tell	[06:26]
*	thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[06:26]
smickles	and the wiki says that electrons can't be distinguished even in principle	[06:27]
mod6	uhhh, i dunno	[06:27]
mod6	if its on the internet it must be true	[06:27]
smickles	it's stuff i recall from studying science tho	[06:27]
gesell	;;goxlag	[06:28]
gribble	0.802029 seconds	[06:28]
dub	PeterL: it was the anti-SD'ers who forced this issue	[06:28]
dub	wat	[06:28]
mod6	im not trying to troll, i don't know srsly.	[06:28]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[06:28]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 44.64974, Best ask: 44.87125, Bid-ask spread: 0.22151, Last trade: 44.88000, 24 hour volume: 126419.84432523, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.49347	[06:28]
smickles	dub: this would not have happened now if people were not encouraging pool ops to raise the soft limit on block size because of 'satoshiDice spam'	[06:29]
dub	uh they had to raise it	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	no	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	it would have happened later	[06:29]
dub	because of the dice spam	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	when it'd have been worse.	[06:29]
smickles	or after it got caught in testing	[06:30]
smickles	and had no issue at all	[06:30]
smickles	who knows	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	yeah. right.	[06:30]
dub	the soft limit was hit	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	because bitcoin is tested.	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	mod6 there always was a 1mb limit	[06:31]
smickles	mircea_popescu: they do do a little on the testnet, it's just that the queue of stuff to test is long, and noone want's to help out	[06:31]
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smickles	dub: http://blockchain.info/block-index/357948/000000000000015c50b165fcdd33556f8b44800c5298943ac70b112df480c023 the soft limit was raised	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	;;tslb	[06:31]
gribble	Time since last block: 1 hour, 3 minutes, and 12 seconds	[06:31]
smickles	that's the offending block	[06:31]
jurov	uff, coinbr back online	[06:32]
dub	smickles: yes it was raised to accomodate dice	[06:32]
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mircea_popescu	france	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	should have known	[06:32]
smickles	mircea_popescu: 23 minutes on the .7 chain	[06:32]
smickles	dub: we weren't hitting the softcap that offten	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	smickles maybe they'll merge then	[06:33]
dub	smickles: yes we were, there was 4000 unconfirmed txn when the call went out to up the limit	[06:33]
dub	smickles: it became a problem when dice increased their fee	[06:33]
dub	pushing everyone else out of the way	[06:33]
mircea_popescu	right	[06:33]
smickles	hmm, i recall there being thousands of unconfirmed txns for months and months	[06:33]
dub	smickles: yeah dice txns	[06:34]
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mircea_popescu	size 980kb nice block lol	[06:34]
dub	which everyone was used to living with, when it suddenly turned into mom and pop's txns taking days to confirm somethign had tobe done	[06:34]
mircea_popescu	dub mom and pop need to stfu and pay for tx	[06:35]
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dub	yes but they didn't know that	[06:35]
mircea_popescu	right.	[06:35]
dub	had no forewarning	[06:35]
mircea_popescu	its on the interwebs so its free etc.	[06:35]
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mircea_popescu	not like iot says right there, "put a little tx fee, it helps the network" etc	[06:35]
dub	so sayign teh anti-dice crew are responsible is wrong	[06:35]
smickles	dub: i can see that we disagree, but i don't think the limit should be raised until the necessary txfee is unreasonably high	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	the idiots are responsible.	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[06:36]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 39.76255342 / 44.74483325 / 53.27237035 (65320 shares, 22,376.48 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	heh 44	[06:36]
smickles	dub: and i don't think i said they were responsible, i said they forced the issue	[06:36]
dub	anti-dice would be work to exclude their tsn not increas the limit	[06:37]
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smickles	some were saying that, some were saying raise the limit	[06:37]
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benkay	what's the mtgox lag command?	[06:39]
dub	;;goxlag	[06:39]
benkay	;;lag	[06:39]
gribble	0.156882 seconds	[06:39]
gribble	Error: "lag" is not a valid command.	[06:39]
benkay	;;goxlag	[06:39]
gribble	1.148831 seconds	[06:39]
benkay	cool thanks.	[06:39]
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benkay	"antifragility"	[06:43]
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benkay	what was the delay between blockchain fork and broadcast?	[06:46]
benkay	i bet < 5 minutes	[06:46]
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dub	broadcast?	[06:47]
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smickles	$mpexlag	[06:48]
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mpexbot	smickles: 0.0727469921112 seconds	[06:48]
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smickles	mircea_popescu: ^^	[06:48]
dub	was there an alert sent to 0.8? I don't see it in .7	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	haha	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[06:49]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.103024959564 seconds	[06:49]
smickles	benkay: it was less than 6 block according to one claim by someone in -dev	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	dude this will be so humiliating to mtgox	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	thing about it, you're getting it through 2 proxies	[06:49]
benkay	naw man	[06:49]
benkay	rubes don't care	[06:49]
benkay	they have a fancy website	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[06:50]
benkay	oh wait, you said "humiliating"	[06:50]
mircea_popescu	and they're bringing the clap to wallstreet	[06:50]
benkay	yeah maybe.	[06:50]
benkay	i hope morgan and co drop the ball hard	[06:50]
benkay	be a shame to see the us consolidate under their iron grip	[06:51]
topace_	bitcoind listtransactions bitches abotu safe mode, is there a way to tell it to just show me the transactions anyways?	[06:51]
ThickAsThieves	i cant see wall st investing in something that is controlled by devs in IRC	[06:51]
benkay	"wall st" != jp	[06:51]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[06:52]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.104865074158 seconds	[06:52]
pigeons	topace_: bitcoind -disablesafemode	[06:52]
mircea_popescu	topace_ careful with that one	[06:52]
BingoBongo	;;wallstreet	[06:53]
gribble	Error: "wallstreet" is not a valid command.	[06:53]
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Ukto	topace: at least you didnt freeze trading :D	[06:53]
topace_	yea, no need to do that :p	[06:53]
Ukto	i found that funny >,>	[06:53]
smickles	who freezed trading?	[06:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P370T] 1000 @ 0.08731834 = 87.3183 BTC [+]	[06:54]
Ukto	i suppose its an okay response to kneejerk reaction	[06:54]
Ukto	btct	[06:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P390T] 1000 @ 0.10970785 = 109.7079 BTC [+]	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	hm	[06:55]
smickles	geez, we're still 9 blocks from a re-org	[06:55]
Ukto	having tie-ins with ozco's systems, and others, my system keeps a close eye on all transactions lol	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 39 / 1.109	[06:55]
gribble	35.1668169522	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	35 ? srsly ?	[06:55]
Ukto	pools offline	[06:55]
Ukto	and/or miners	[06:55]
Ukto	only those pools who were properly setup/unefected continue	[06:55]
smickles	mircea_popescu: we had a double top and a crisis. we're going to 2	[06:55]
Ukto	like.. ozco :P	[06:55]
Ukto	who didnt set their block size to 1bazillion	[06:56]
benkay	mircea_popescu: what are you calculating there?	[06:56]
smickles	benkay: break even of a put	[06:56]
topace_	225445 still the top of the 0.7 ? my 0.8 client still shows 225453	[06:56]
benkay	what's the 1.109? interest rate?	[06:56]
benkay	oh, cost?	[06:56]
smickles	topace_: yeah	[06:56]
benkay	shit this is embarrassing.	[06:57]
mircea_popescu	benkay what those puts imply pricewise	[06:57]
smickles	benkay: 1+cost	[06:57]
topace_	smickles:so the 0.8 clients wont switch until the height is more?	[06:57]
smickles	topace_: yea	[06:57]
smickles	1 more	[06:57]
topace_	cool im going to bed then, lol	[06:57]
smickles	er, 1 more than the current	[06:58]
benkay	thanks you two	[06:58]
smickles	so , 9 more blocks to go	[06:58]
mircea_popescu	still at 8 ?	[06:59]
smickles	yeah, still 8 blocks different	[07:00]
mircea_popescu	;;tslb	[07:00]
gribble	Time since last block: 1 hour, 31 minutes, and 55 seconds	[07:00]
mircea_popescu	at least that didn't move.	[07:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P550T] 1000 @ 0.38403908 = 384.0391 BTC [+]	[07:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P530T] 1000 @ 0.34210801 = 342.108 BTC [+]	[07:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P510T] 1000 @ 0.30194268 = 301.9427 BTC [+]	[07:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P490T] 1000 @ 0.26374232 = 263.7423 BTC [+]	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	shorts covering	[07:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P470T] 1000 @ 0.22771516 = 227.7152 BTC [+]	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	smickles maybe you're right	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	!m ^oix	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[07:01]
smickles	mircea_popescu: i only have a self taught understanding of technicals and i see it, so people who trade on technicals probably see it too and are taking action	[07:02]
assbot	It says some pelt-wearin' trapper, some stinkin' bean-suckin' possum skinner, he's gonna collect that reward money.	[07:03]
pizzaman1337	$mpexlag	[07:03]
mpexbot	pizzaman1337: 0.0712060928345 seconds	[07:03]
the-bucket-shop	peter - if satoshi dice can land some press out of this, then probably there will be some more betting next few weeks.	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	"s.dice grows too large for bitcoin"	[07:04]
mod6	omg she is just gloating over here lol, she's been calling 'em mario coins since day one.	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	who lol	[07:05]
mod6	she's like, "oh gonna go play more dungons and dragons 'eh...."	[07:05]
mod6	my gf	[07:05]
mod6	she's a btc hater	[07:05]
mod6	and now shes gloating	[07:05]
mod6	:/	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	lo	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	l	[07:06]
the-bucket-shop	mp s.dice grows too large for bitcoin sounds way better than "bitcoin is forked" btc people who talk to the press have no option but to blame satoshidice very loudly.	[07:07]
the-bucket-shop	I'm an s.dice shareholder btw	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	heh	[07:07]
*	Eduard_Munteanu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[07:08]
mircea_popescu	sure, blame canada why not.	[07:08]
maximian	good thing this happened now and not when the market cap is $5B	[07:08]
mircea_popescu	maximian if the idiots hadn't put in the 250k limit it would have jhappened and been resolved in 2011	[07:08]
Chaang-Noi	nice to see the gap getting shorter	[07:08]
mircea_popescu	when you know... 1 single block would have caused it, it'd have been immediately noticed but no forking	[07:08]
*	BTCTrader2 (~BTCTrader@netblock-208-127-246-121.dslextreme.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:08]
the-bucket-shop	I'm sure this stuff will happen at $5B too. that's like the size of the New York School district	[07:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.5949999 BTC [+]	[07:09]
*	sgornick (~steve@unaffiliated/sgornick) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:09]
Chaang-Noi	mp the idots was satoshi, he just assumed we would change it later	[07:09]
smickles	8 blocks to go	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	the-bucket-shop basically it will happen indefinitely for as long as we have a devteam that mostly works at trying to play government.	[07:09]
Chaang-Noi	they did it to protect from spamming	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	Chaang-Noi i don't care what the excuse is.	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	they did it because their heads don't work.	[07:09]
mod6	he's not an idiot. he was very smart, if these new idiots can't hack their way out of a wet paper sack, thats not really his fault.	[07:09]
*	mircea_popescu rage	[07:10]
Chaang-Noi	in the frist few months someone could ahve attacked it with spam and killed it, who is to say that would not have happened?	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	dude first frw months	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	it is 2013 have some mercy	[07:10]
Chaang-Noi	i agree it should ahve been changed by now	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	long by!	[07:10]
Chaang-Noi	but having it in the first place was a good idea	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	jesus i'm clueless about bitcoin internals.	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	if it gets to the point where i am raising objections and they make sense	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	IT IS WAY TOO LONG	[07:10]
Chaang-Noi	honestly this issue is one of the reasons i went so hard core into ltc	[07:10]
Chaang-Noi	and that was over a year ago...	[07:11]
kakobrekla	how does ltc fix that ?	[07:11]
*	chippewa-adm (~chippewa_@204.11.229.46.static.etheric.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:11]
Chaang-Noi	faster blocks can fit more transactions	[07:11]
Chaang-Noi	also i have more faith in the ltc pools to change this cuz it is a small network now	[07:12]
Chaang-Noi	we can fix it with out too much issue, and i ahve been trying to get peole to move	[07:12]
pigeons	well the bdb index lock bug isnt only triggered by pure # of transactions	[07:12]
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Chaang-Noi	pigeons it is size of the blocks right?	[07:12]
*	chippewa-adm (~chippewa_@204.11.229.46.static.etheric.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:12]
pigeons	no	[07:12]
Chaang-Noi	what is it then?	[07:12]
pigeons	not directly	[07:12]
Chaang-Noi	well indirectly then	[07:13]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[07:13]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.01200, Best ask: 45.35277, Bid-ask spread: 0.34077, Last trade: 45.42658, 24 hour volume: 129864.74982214, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.47226	[07:13]
pigeons	to say that litecoin is in anyway better on this issue is ridiculous	[07:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P550T] 275 @ 0.38399185 = 105.5978 BTC [-]	[07:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P530T] 275 @ 0.34205951 = 94.0664 BTC [-]	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	hm.	[07:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P510T] 275 @ 0.30189328 = 83.0207 BTC [-]	[07:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P490T] 275 @ 0.26369245 = 72.5154 BTC [-]	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	perhaps things are actually settling down ?	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[07:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P470T] 275 @ 0.22766534 = 62.608 BTC [-]	[07:14]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.01200, Best ask: 45.42580, Bid-ask spread: 0.41380, Last trade: 45.42600, 24 hour volume: 129868.46652021, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.47196	[07:14]
benkay	how are the chain size and this recent fork related?	[07:14]
pigeons	benkay: not chain size, block size	[07:15]
benkay	okay	[07:15]
Chaang-Noi	pigeons you have not explained what you think the issue is yet you say what i said is silly... it is hard to attack a point you wont state	[07:16]
benkay	what's this referring to: mircea_popescu: maximian if the idiots hadn't put in the 250k limit it would have jhappened and been resolved in 2011	[07:16]
mircea_popescu	benkay the presence of a 250k arbitrary block limit	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	prevented the underlying problem of the db from being discovered	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	until that moment when a perfect storm composed out of a db upgrade and the limit removal	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	created two almost equal miner bases	[07:17]
benkay	oh i see, chain size and this fork i are idiots	[07:18]
mircea_popescu	this could have easily been avoided by simply not relying on magic numbers.	[07:18]
benkay	heh	[07:18]
mircea_popescu	and it will ever be the case that whenever code contains a number based on an assumption	[07:18]
benkay	developers hate unconstrained systems	[07:18]
mircea_popescu	that code wuill break spectacularly.	[07:18]
Bowjob	3.00% fee of CaVirtex	[07:18]
Bowjob	thats steep	[07:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C410T] 3 @ 0.15129407 = 0.4539 BTC [+]	[07:18]
kakobrekla	it can be constrained to 2tb for start	[07:19]
mircea_popescu	it's just not how you code.	[07:21]
mircea_popescu	0, 1, infinity.	[07:21]
mircea_popescu	that's the motherfucking rule.	[07:21]
topace_	Bowjob: cavirtex is only 3% to start with, its volume based... pretty easy to get down tto 1%	[07:21]
topace_	or even 0.5%	[07:21]
smickles	$mpex lag	[07:22]
smickles	$mpexlag	[07:22]
mpexbot	smickles: 0.10756111145 seconds	[07:22]
Bowjob	dont i get charged per trade?	[07:22]
Bowjob	so I have to keep trading until I bring it down to 1%	[07:22]
pigeons	yeah it was .5% for its first couple years but couldnt make any money + scammers	[07:22]
pigeons	that interac email transfer thing was a mistake	[07:23]
Chaang-Noi	some trolling fun if you are up for it http://buttcoin.org/bitcoin-has-forked-markets-are-fucked-massive-sell-off-ship-is-sinking	[07:23]
Bowjob	mhm yah thevolume isnt that high on virtex	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	Chaang-Noi the something bawwwfull crowd... btc goes 15 to 45, they're like whelp	[07:24]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin goes 45 to 40 for 15 minutes... omg MUST MAKE ALL THE POSTS	[07:24]
smickles	pigeons: check your $mail	[07:24]
mircea_popescu	tomorrow it'll be like... what, nothing happened. so what if it's 50. doesn't prove anything	[07:24]
smickles	pigeons: check your $email	[07:24]
smickles	imean	[07:24]
Chaang-Noi	mp yeah 15 to 45, then a short dip to 38 and they are like, told you its over, lulz	[07:25]
smickles	uh oh, badchain got longer	[07:26]
Bowjob	whos mining on badchain	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	;;tslb	[07:26]
gribble	Time since last block: 9 minutes and 53 seconds	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	whoa	[07:27]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[07:33]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/ \|\| CAN'T ACCESS MPEX.CO : http://mpex.coinbr.com/	[07:33]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Sun Mar 10 20:50:43 2013	[07:33]
*	[freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp	[07:33]
*	Guest83095 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[07:33]
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mod6	;;tslb	[07:42]
gribble	Time since last block: 25 minutes and 29 seconds	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	so what's best case scenario here, something like 16 blocks chain orphaned ?	[07:43]
mod6	oh looks like btcguild got another	[07:44]
mod6	;;tslb	[07:44]
gribble	Time since last block: 27 minutes and 9 seconds	[07:44]
mod6	oh wtf	[07:44]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	mod6 this is the bad chain gribble sees	[07:44]
gribble	Current Blocks: 225454 \| Current Difficulty: 4367876.000842196 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 225791 \| Next Difficulty In: 337 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 34 minutes, and 35 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 4838985.15316 \| Estimated Percent Change: 10.78577	[07:44]
Chaang-Noi	back to 27, oh lulz btc. how you troll us	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[07:45]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 46.46002, Best ask: 46.75436, Bid-ask spread: 0.29434, Last trade: 46.93566, 24 hour volume: 134874.62479342, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.53366	[07:45]
Chaang-Noi	https://coinbase.com/network/blocks us this	[07:45]
Chaang-Noi	use*	[07:45]
Chaang-Noi	it has been 44 mins	[07:45]
ThickAsThieves	https://blockchain.info/blocks	[07:45]
Bowjob	im not sure how to interpret the data	[07:46]
*	benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[07:46]
Bowjob	so.. are we all good then?	[07:46]
ThickAsThieves	we want the "orphaned" one to win I believe	[07:46]
Bowjob	oh god	[07:46]
ThickAsThieves	it'll be a few hours i guess	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1614614#msg1614614	[07:47]
Bowjob	who is mining on 0.8 then?	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	consensus emerges.	[07:47]
*	benkay (~benkay@c-71-193-200-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin devs to stop all development of new versions, work on bitcoin specification exclusively, then release one cleanned up bitcoin version.	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	an' take it from there.	[07:48]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[07:49]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.110903978348 seconds	[07:49]
Bowjob	BFL should atone for their sins and mine with the ASICs if they have them and help save the network	[07:49]
ThickAsThieves	overall this still lowers difficulty next round a little right?	[07:50]
maximian	Bowjob the network is being saved right now…. it's just taking some time because hashing power is split between two chains.	[07:50]
ThickAsThieves	they had to remine blocks right?	[07:50]
ThickAsThieves	and a portion of the hashing is still going to dead blocks	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yes it does	[07:50]
Bowjob	yeah but who is mining on 0.8 still?	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	diff shall have a hole in it	[07:50]
Bowjob	they have no clue?	[07:51]
ThickAsThieves	people sleep	[07:51]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob prolly p2pool	[07:51]
ThickAsThieves	i wanna sleep	[07:51]
Bowjob	sleep?	[07:51]
Bowjob	whats that	[07:51]
ThickAsThieves	but i also wanna watch the fireworks	[07:51]
ThickAsThieves	so this is good for asicminer(s), they get an extra day of lower diff, maybe more	[07:53]
BitHub	whens the nev div due?	[07:53]
BitHub	40 hours?	[07:53]
ThickAsThieves	wed/thu	[07:53]
BitHub	sweeet	[07:53]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[07:53]
gribble	Current Blocks: 225454 \| Current Difficulty: 4367876.000842196 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 225791 \| Next Difficulty In: 337 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 34 minutes, and 35 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 4838985.15316 \| Estimated Percent Change: 10.78577	[07:53]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves they are the largest losers mining on dead chain	[07:53]
BingoBongo	Interesting how p2pool was supposed to "prevent network centralization" seems to be doing the job...	[07:54]
ThickAsThieves	asicminer is on the main chain, btcguild	[07:54]
Bowjob	so basically if i get this right, those mining on 0.8 are wasting their time	[07:54]
ThickAsThieves	yes	[07:54]
ThickAsThieves	their blocks will never get confirmed	[07:54]
Bowjob	by "main" you mean 0.7	[07:54]
ThickAsThieves	unless they fork intentionally...	[07:54]
ThickAsThieves	yes	[07:55]
BitHub	any press conference release statements from the devs yet?	[07:55]
ThickAsThieves	the one with majority hashing power	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	BingoBongo exactly.	[07:55]
ThickAsThieves	essentially btcguild and the other big ones are doing a 51% attack	[07:55]
ThickAsThieves	to go back to the .7 chain	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves and it's not trivial to get the fuck off .8	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	because you'll need old chain	[07:56]
kakobrekla	eleuretheria or whatever wants his coins back	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla that poor guy you know ?	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	fucked by .8 x2	[07:56]
kakobrekla	yea	[07:56]
Bowjob	skip the 0.8	[07:56]
Bowjob	next release should be 0.9	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	NEXT TIME devs want ppl to upgrade ppl will be like	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	"sure, got escrow ?"	[07:56]
ThickAsThieves	too bad for him, but maybe now he'll have better protocol for changing his software	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	yea. as in, not change it.	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	perfect protocol.	[07:57]
ThickAsThieves	sdice can support the forked chain for bet processing	[07:57]
kakobrekla	im lucky bitbet runs 0.72	[07:57]
ThickAsThieves	i assume my bet was rejected	[07:58]
Bowjob	gah btc is very complicated lol	[07:58]
ThickAsThieves	bet idea*	[07:58]
kakobrekla	no idea	[08:00]
kakobrekla	a	[08:00]
BingoBongo	!ticker m ^oix	[08:00]
kakobrekla	not processed yet	[08:00]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 39.70080218 / 44.63179932 / 53.27201335 (66598 shares, 22,713.19 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[08:00]
kakobrekla	but dunno if it fits the rules	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves give bets a day or so	[08:00]
mod6	i have 0.7.1 ...	[08:00]
kakobrekla	mircea_popescu he wants to do these meta bets	[08:01]
ThickAsThieves	np, just interested to see if it fits within rules	[08:01]
mircea_popescu	well whatever he wants, if you don't see it in a day it's prolly been rejected	[08:01]
rodeo	Once the ophaned chain take over again BTCguild will get > 10 blocks I wounder how they will credit it	[08:02]
ThickAsThieves	proportionally, like always?	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	ironic that the end result of the Luke-Jr & co group of idiots starting their little jihad on s.dice	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	will be the extinction of their c++ only "refernece" implementation and in general the end of their centralist chokehold on bitcoin	[08:04]
mircea_popescu	i guess the lesson here is that programmers have no business arguing with financiers.	[08:04]
mircea_popescu	won't be learned tho, i bet.	[08:04]
ThickAsThieves	almost done	[08:06]
ThickAsThieves	;;tslb	[08:06]
gribble	Time since last block: 49 minutes and 1 second	[08:06]
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Chaang-Noi	last 3 blocks were prphaned, ??? not good?	[08:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.BBET] 100 @ 0.00181 = 0.181 BTC [+]	[08:11]
Chaang-Noi	https://coinbase.com/network/blocks last 3 blocks? wtf?	[08:11]
maximian	they're part of the 0.7 chain	[08:12]
maximian	it's catching up	[08:12]
maximian	just two more blocks and it'll be the main chain	[08:13]
ThickAsThieves	tied now	[08:14]
Bowjob	yay. go 51% attack	[08:14]
*	BingoBongo throws all my 11mH/s on the 0.8 chain, because principle	[08:16]
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ThickAsThieves	well i see one problem	[08:16]
ThickAsThieves	my balance on btc-e	[08:16]
ThickAsThieves	-18	[08:16]
ThickAsThieves	should be about 0	[08:17]
Bowjob	ah.. btc-e. I lose my mind on that trollbox	[08:17]
ThickAsThieves	same on other exchanges	[08:17]
Bowjob	its bad for my health	[08:17]
ThickAsThieves	negative balance	[08:17]
ThickAsThieves	whoa	[08:17]
ThickAsThieves	a bunch of incoming deposits	[08:18]
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maximian	so it's all over	[08:22]
kakobrekla	at least we had some good drama ya know	[08:24]
Bowjob	so thats it? crisis averted?	[08:24]
maximian	yep	[08:25]
*	Jackmaninov (~Jackmanin@84.113.100.69) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:25]
BingoBongo	Crisis averted, drama unleased.	[08:25]
maximian	now come the personal attacks, panic selling, etc	[08:25]
maximian	but bitcoin marches on	[08:25]
rodeo	I thought the ending was a bit anti climatic	[08:25]
Bowjob	Aight, preparing fiat	[08:26]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[08:26]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.05186, Best ask: 45.05187, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 45.05187, 24 hour volume: 136276.60628425, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.54592	[08:26]
maximian	big forks have happened before, not really a big deal	[08:26]
BingoBongo	It's not the ending. It is the opening chapter in the Latest DLC. BitCoin: Mission Standardization	[08:26]
Bowjob	I printed an order page for topace, but then hes like nope. dont transact	[08:26]
Bowjob	so my free option didnt work out	[08:27]
Bowjob	lol	[08:27]
maximian	the tech blogs will have a field day with this. orgasming over the opportunity to spread some FUD	[08:27]
maximian	I think we can expect the exchange rate to be depressed for a while.	[08:27]
Ukto	well, as I stated before.. weex wallet is the perfect example of correctnes	[08:27]
ThickAsThieves	here it goes	[08:28]
Ukto	wonder what other sites are like :P	[08:28]
mircea_popescu	;;tslb	[08:29]
gribble	Time since last block: 1 minute and 50 seconds	[08:29]
ThickAsThieves	so will there be a mass selloff afte rpeople get their btc to gox?	[08:30]
ThickAsThieves	yes	[08:30]
maximian	yeah, lots of nervous nellies out there	[08:30]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[08:30]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 43.99646, Best ask: 44.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00354, Last trade: 44.00000, 24 hour volume: 137786.72229724, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.54643	[08:30]
maximian	people who don't understand the system… pure speculators	[08:30]
Bowjob	I'm watching from coinlab	[08:31]
ThickAsThieves	me too	[08:31]
pigeons	you're at coinlab? or coinlab has an actual product out?	[08:31]
ThickAsThieves	a fancy ticker	[08:31]
ThickAsThieves	and a working goxwall	[08:31]
*	Ukto tickers ThickAsThieves	[08:32]
*	Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)	[08:32]
ThickAsThieves	and of course the Buy $1m button	[08:32]
pigeons	cant be fancier than clarkmoody?	[08:32]
Bowjob	http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=bitcoin-assets	[08:32]
Bowjob	mhm	[08:32]
Bowjob	45	[08:32]
Bowjob	Bulls fighting back?	[08:32]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[08:32]
ThickAsThieves	it wont last	[08:32]
Bowjob	I'd let the bears have a go at it for now	[08:32]
ThickAsThieves	people just waiting for confirms	[08:32]
Bowjob	oh	[08:32]
Bowjob	lol	[08:32]
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BingoBongo	I imagine there's a large low information"Investor" population that through inertia or ignorance recognizes what a small hiccup this should have been... When they start looking for people to inform them though....	[08:36]
Chaang-Noi	so did we fix yet?	[08:39]
Bowjob	yeah	[08:39]
pigeons	just waiting for you to reboot	[08:39]
Bowjob	wheres that gif of this anime chick drinking coffee	[08:39]
Chaang-Noi	awesome thanks	[08:39]
BingoBongo	I'm making a trip to the Pawn Shop tomorrow and loading up on fiat for the opportunity that should arise these next few weeks. The DFI I use is indicating a "correction" to $15-$35 within 2 or 3 weeks, confidence interval of 66.7%	[08:39]
pigeons	partly cloudy, chance of rain	[08:40]
BingoBongo	EH, its just the Drama FUD Index	[08:40]
pigeons	omg! bitcoin didnt die! buy!	[08:40]
Chaang-Noi	:)	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[08:42]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 44.16000, Best ask: 44.43000, Bid-ask spread: 0.27000, Last trade: 44.54000, 24 hour volume: 137292.69111752, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.50843	[08:42]
ThickAsThieves	i'm not sure if gox is fully open yet	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	so 24 blocks in the end.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 24 * 25 * 48.47	[08:43]
gribble	29082	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	we just blew somalia's current week budget.	[08:44]
BingoBongo	That's about a used VW Phaeton	[08:44]
Chaang-Noi	mp lol	[08:49]
BingoBongo	Appear to be roughly the ask for this real estate http://www.trulia.com/property/3107337882-2640-Arsenal-St-Saint-Louis-MO-63118	[08:52]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1614847#msg1614847 <<	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	anybody here actually interested in this btw ?	[08:53]
BitHub	lulz mircea	[08:53]
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BingoBongo	Lulz Jeff G, How many support threads on that forum have ended in essentially: export your private keys and import into X software other than what you have been using	[08:57]
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*	Chaang-Noi (~j@180.183.1.176) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:03]
Bowjob	If felt that we would have a tremendous rally today this bug didnt happen	[09:03]
Bowjob	oh well. i'll take what i can	[09:03]
BingoBongo	A software neutral specification has been needed for too long	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	i am starting to see that.	[09:06]
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BingoBongo	I give it probably 3 years for a full move from code control to stardardized and documented.	[09:07]
BingoBongo	There's the long fight over what the spec is, and then theres the awkward grace period until the spec forces people to leave the old code controlled version (unless crisis compells it earlier)	[09:10]
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midnightmagic	Probably not going to happen. People like mystical chains-of-heredity.	[09:11]
midnightmagic	It's in their nature--right beside the part that thinks god talks directly to them.	[09:11]
BingoBongo	Some things are more powerful than heredity	[09:13]
Bowjob	http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/343/462/79a.gif	[09:13]
midnightmagic	The magic Satoshi? You think the huge number of sociopaths running bitcoin are interested in an outside non-mystic taking the reins?	[09:15]
*	saulimus (~someone@82.197.2.14) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:16]
kakobrekla	that bottle looks almost like a gun	[09:16]
kakobrekla	pointed at him	[09:16]
BingoBongo	Happier bottle http://i.imgur.com/jUQ6z.jpg?1	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	BingoBongo so five years ain't that bad.	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic i wouldbn't bet on "people" mattering	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	we are discussing money.	[09:28]
midnightmagic	people who use bitcoin are the people I'm talking about.	[09:28]
midnightmagic	they are who create the economy which bitcoin encompasses.	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	people who use bitcoin have not a fucking clue.	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	allow me to quote :	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	I think this means that bitcoin is in jeopardy.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	and they hate mpex shares!	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	WHY ARENT the bitcoin police doing anything about these DDOS attacks?	[09:29]
midnightmagic	correct, they don't. the thing is a lot of them know that, so what do they do? social proof. and they pick a guy (like satoshi) and decide he is the nearest thing to god.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	problem is the god is gone	[09:30]
mircea_popescu	and it left behind a coven of idiots.	[09:30]
midnightmagic	And he left a minor southern deity in charge.	[09:30]
mircea_popescu	the way things play out is popemassacre	[09:30]
midnightmagic	You know for someone who complains about it so much I'm surprised you're taking such an interest in leading a takeover.. :-)	[09:30]
midnightmagic	(and by surprised, I mean, "not very surprised")	[09:31]
Ukto	btw, bitfunder is 100% online. withdraws/ deposits	[09:31]
Ukto	you guys do okay? :)	[09:31]
midnightmagic	course.	[09:31]
midnightmagic	god talks to me. :)	[09:31]
BingoBongo	mircea_popescu Not at all. Maybe tie the definitive switch to standards only to the next halving? God is gone so let's send things to committee.	[09:31]
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mircea_popescu	midnightmagic im not leading anything, but i'm not standing for nonsensical crap either.	[09:32]
midnightmagic	You're trying to suggest you could be the lead of a Real bitcoin replacement. :)	[09:33]
midnightmagic	Or rather.. boob lady is. :)	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	not really. but i am saying that the current stuff has to go.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	actually, i said it months ago.	[09:34]
midnightmagic	Yes I read that.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	i said the moment devs try to act like priests and leverage the obscurity of their bad code into political theosophy... they're screwed.	[09:35]
mircea_popescu	i guess they don't read english any better than they read their own code.	[09:35]
midnightmagic	Actually, the reference implementation was never meant to be the end-all canonical version. Satoshi always hoped someone would write a properly-funded, properly engineered client and it would become the canonical client.	[09:35]
midnightmagic	(sort of	[09:35]
mircea_popescu	i am aware.	[09:36]
midnightmagic	I see no examples of political theosophy. You clearly have something in mind: out with it. :)	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	if you recall, this all started with people knowing which transactions are good.	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	and which usecases are acceptable.	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	and on and on.	[09:36]
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midnightmagic	I don't see how a rationale (which Satoshi himself started, btw, by requesting that Wikileaks not use bitcoin yet,) is the snowball accretion of full-blown theosophy.	[09:38]
BingoBongo	And mircea_popescu many will probably try to sweep it under the rug as LevelDB is broken, because it isn't BerkelyDB. You're on the right track, but I think this was probably the wrong error...	[09:38]
mircea_popescu	BingoBongo does it make much of a difference ?	[09:39]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic wrong step on satoshi's part. let it be broken, rebuild. why protect it ?	[09:39]
midnightmagic	Currently, the best choice is sipa's blacklist patch, as it allows us to remain on the faster 0.8 while still mining.	[09:39]
mircea_popescu	if it's good it will prevail. if it sucks it will just crack and something else will come out of it	[09:39]
BingoBongo	mircea_popescu the difference is probably how much they will try to reiforce their canon against sense...	[09:40]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: blockchain-destroying events tend to set back adoption progress amongst people who are afraid of what everyone else will think.	[09:40]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic so ?	[09:40]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: the bootstrapping itself is still going on.	[09:40]
BingoBongo	"Good" bitcoin will probably have to overtake old by 51% As worse overtook bad tonight	[09:40]
mircea_popescu	look, like it or not, for this reason or for some other reason, bitcoin is at a point where you can't reasonably pour more moneuy into it	[09:40]
mircea_popescu	before it's been specified.	[09:41]
mircea_popescu	if it can't be specified that's a dealbreaker	[09:41]
mircea_popescu	not such a huge notion this, is it ?	[09:41]
midnightmagic	BingoBongo: it will overtake depending on its technical and UX merits.	[09:41]
mircea_popescu	BingoBongo have you read the girl's explanation of why multiforks resolve and aren't a problem economically ?	[09:41]
BingoBongo	mircea_popescu I might have, I'll recheck her post history.	[09:42]
midnightmagic	BingoBongo: Think about it this way. uTorrent killed everything else on Windows.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	in short : suppose chain forks into 3 different chains today, a b and c	[09:42]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: On the same network?	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	if you had 10 bitcoins today prefork, you will have 10 a 10b and 10 c bitcoins after the fork.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	if you sell b and buy a the price of all will go up and the price of b down.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	eventually the fork resolves economically simply because mining costs money.	[09:43]
mircea_popescu	end of story. money itself is a centralising factor, and as such the slightest flicker amplifies	[09:43]
midnightmagic	bleah.. the crosschatter would be ridiculous..	[09:43]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[09:43]
mircea_popescu	more drama, more market cap.	[09:44]
BingoBongo	Ah, this is kind of what I was thinking. I must have read without expressing the sentiment. I believe I've read similar on Trilema as well.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	i think so.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	to be perfectly candid, many people involved in bitcoin are good honest and well meaning individuals, who know about things. usually those things are coding.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	there's a lot more to know than coding in thsi world.	[09:45]
midnightmagic	crosschatter and high-bandwidth reorg battles would hurt individual consensus. presume the forks are all equal hashrate to begin with: due to the nature of POW, it would be far, far worse in terms of strength against attack.	[09:45]
midnightmagic	(like way less than 1/3)	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic no. because attacker wouldn't know which to attack.	[09:45]
BingoBongo	midnightmagic Win32 killed everything on Windows... Crosschatter happened before, some altcoin late last year did it (no halving fork) and had to be euthanized.	[09:45]
midnightmagic	that's not the case.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	or even... why.	[09:45]
midnightmagic	you must presume technical acumen on the part of the attacker.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	technical yes.	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	but selecting the coin to attack is not a technical problem.	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	and you must never presume political acumen on the part of anyone.	[09:46]
midnightmagic	also economical savvy (as all attackers I have seen have been extremely insightful economically)	[09:46]
midnightmagic	you must when modelling attack.	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	here's a bomb for you midnightmagic :	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	if the devs were a little looser in the ass, would the sort of econ savvy attackers stay that side or join this side ?	[09:46]
midnightmagic	not godlike power, but intellectually perfect decisions, plus funded by $x dollars.	[09:47]
midnightmagic	I don't know what that means.	[09:47]
mircea_popescu	looser in the ass ? it means being used with being fucked in that orrifice.	[09:47]
midnightmagic	Yeah but what has that to do with anything? Is this your way of saying you're done arguing?	[09:48]
midnightmagic	"Argument stopper man!"	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	nah.	[09:48]
midnightmagic	You could just say so, I'd stop.	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	i guess it doesn't convey, let me try another way.	[09:48]
midnightmagic	Okay.	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	suppose buttcoin has some devs that think all usecases are equally valid, and dorkcoin has some devs who believe using the coin for gambling is spam.	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	suppose there is one attacker such as you've modeled him.	[09:49]
Anduck	selling ASICMINER @ 0.76	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	which chain is getting attacked ?	[09:49]
Anduck	pm if interested	[09:49]
pigeons	by the way people dont think using bitcoin for gambling is spam, they think using bitcoin transactions to signal a lost bet is spam	[09:50]
midnightmagic	I'd preferentially attack the ones who appeared to be more philosophically aligned with the notion of attack.	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	same thing pigeons. as long as you're making that call your ass is too tight.	[09:50]
midnightmagic	Also, if the money is on the side of the all-use-cases-are-valid (i.e. gambling and drugs, hypothetically) then obviously the money is where the attacker goes.	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	live a little.	[09:50]
pigeons	ok maybe we should just encode files and upload them to the blockchain ala namecoin too	[09:51]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic not so. you will be surprised to find attackers routinely forego hitting higher payoff cooler targets	[09:51]
mircea_popescu	to focus on the uncool ones.	[09:51]
mircea_popescu	pigeons if we shouldn't, there should not be call for doing it.	[09:51]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: Well, not in my personal experience. But perhaps that's out-of-date these days.	[09:51]
midnightmagic	The gambling servers at least are very popular targets. Extorting them is almost a Russian pastime.	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	that;s brancing the discussion off the germane path tho	[09:52]
pigeons	alpaca socks can only pay so much ransom	[09:52]
midnightmagic	^^ this	[09:52]
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midnightmagic	Even btcexpress preferred to leave his attacks on the altcoins.	[09:53]
mircea_popescu	sure, irrelevant ventures aren't part of the discussion, if bitcoin stays alpacca we're wasting our time with these concerns/	[09:53]
midnightmagic	.. but you defined the two choices earlier. I'm not agreeing that the choices match reality. I'm just hanging out in your hypothetical land because you invited me.	[09:54]
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mircea_popescu	midnightmagic that's fine, but you pervert the choices when you add riders such as "one is really vanishingly small"	[09:54]
mircea_popescu	or "neither are payment systems, but gaming servers"	[09:54]
mircea_popescu	etc.	[09:54]
midnightmagic	Well if that's not what you meant, perhaps you should define things more narrowly. :)	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	just leave it stand as it is. the theoretical response to a 51% attack is that the attacker would make more by mining.	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	the same applies ideologically too. the network won't get attacked for as long as it manages to not stupidly offend.	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	keeping money ideologically neutral, implementing the old pecunia non olet	[09:55]
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mircea_popescu	is the main strategic purpose of having a devteam in the first place.	[09:56]
midnightmagic	I think gpumax is the counterexample to that assertion (that they'd make more by mining)	[09:56]
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mircea_popescu	i don't think so. gpumax dissapeared with pirate, as the sane people were saying back in february 2012.	[09:56]
mircea_popescu	completely unrelated topic, gpumax	[09:56]
midnightmagic	nah it's not. It's an example of hashrate for sale, and successfully for sale for that matter.	[09:57]
mircea_popescu	yes, for the purpose of covering a side attack	[09:57]
mircea_popescu	ie, pirate's confidence scam.	[09:57]
midnightmagic	I don't know why you say that.	[09:58]
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mircea_popescu	...	[09:58]
mircea_popescu	what, this is still disputed ?	[09:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.2 = 1 BTC [+]	[09:58]
midnightmagic	More likely it was a side-business for coin laundry, but none of the miners could ever (far as I know) figure out where the coins were coming from.	[09:58]
midnightmagic	That is, none of them were ever tainted.	[09:59]
mircea_popescu	be that as it may	[09:59]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.076 BTC [-]	[10:02]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 4 @ 0.00524 = 0.021 BTC [+]	[10:04]
Ukto	looks like trading on btct is back	[10:04]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.18 = 0.54 BTC [-]	[10:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]	[10:14]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 25 @ 0.00193 = 0.0483 BTC [+]	[10:16]
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Bowjob	Massive sell off occuring	[10:17]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[10:18]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 42.50000, Best ask: 43.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.50000, Last trade: 43.00000, 24 hour volume: 143829.74796654, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.38319	[10:18]
mircea_popescu	10k, not so massive.	[10:19]
Bowjob	well, i watched it from 45, drop to 42.5 .. i see each cent dropping	[10:19]
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Ukto	https://bitfunder.com/editAssetProfile/CRYPTO.LTC now live	[10:28]
Ukto	Native LTC deposit/withdraw supported. "And as always. Has good day."	[10:28]
kakobrekla	unaffection comes to bitbet so naturally i wont be posting any signes.	[10:28]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[10:29]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 41.51000, Best ask: 41.99900, Bid-ask spread: 0.48900, Last trade: 41.99900, 24 hour volume: 146092.87031245, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 44.35230	[10:29]
kakobrekla	;;goxlag	[10:29]
gribble	23.174488 seconds	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[10:32]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.147304058075 seconds	[10:32]
mircea_popescu	no srsly	[10:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5 @ 0.00073163 = 0.0037 BTC [-]	[10:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5539 @ 0.00073162 = 4.0524 BTC [-]	[10:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 456 @ 0.00072543 = 0.3308 BTC [-]	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	In Australia, IPv6 adoption is almost non-existent, reports Josh Taylor.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	"It's about as bad as everywhere else on the planet, I guess, with the single exception of Romania," Asia Pacific Network Information Centre's chief scientist, Geoff Huston, said in an interview with ZDNet Australia.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[10:54]
Anduck	selling ASICMINER @ 0.76, pm me if interested (at btct.co ASICMINER-PT asks are at 0.7699)	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	Anduck you know about the tradebook ?	[10:57]
Anduck	no.	[10:57]
Anduck	....yeeees	[10:57]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[18:17]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/ \|\| CAN'T ACCESS MPEX.CO : http://mpex.coinbr.com/	[18:17]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Sun Mar 10 20:50:43 2013	[18:17]
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Namworld	I offer 0.03% daily on funds here.	[18:21]
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Namworld	I'll be back later	[18:27]
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mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[18:29]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 43.41654, Best ask: 43.41666, Bid-ask spread: 0.00012, Last trade: 43.50000, 24 hour volume: 166958.61630911, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 43.77197	[18:29]
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smickles	We're Going Down!	[18:30]
jcpham	twss	[18:30]
jborkl_	It is holding up well considering what a collosal fuck up this was	[18:30]
jborkl_	colossal	[18:31]
Namworld	It wasn't that colossal... just a little forking	[18:31]
Namworld	The miners voted which would be used going forward	[18:32]
smickles	yeah, and it's not likely that many lost btc due to incidental double spends	[18:32]
Troic_	it could have been colossal, if the pool ops weren't so cooperative	[18:32]
jborkl_	That they encouraged people to change the block size and not knowing it was going to break BDB was a big fuck up	[18:32]
MJR_	Namworld: what is your bonds URL again?	[18:32]
smickles	Troic_: beauty of the system, they have a financial incentive to cooperate	[18:32]
Namworld	https://btct.co/security/BTC-BOND	[18:32]
deadweasel	smickles: that's what keeps me sane	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:33]
smickles	jborkl_: I do wish they had tested .8 better. tis could've been caught	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	jborkl_ the idea is strong, the implementation horrible	[18:33]
Namworld	they can still mass object to changes and refuse... but the longest chain will be the one with most miners.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	in a sense this backhandedly proves how strong the idea is	[18:33]
Namworld	The issue is not in .8 at all...	[18:33]
smickles	gavin had admitted to testing 500k blocks	[18:34]
smickles	but not 1m blocks	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	smickles heh.	[18:34]
Namworld	It's in .7	[18:34]
Namworld	No amount of testing would have found the issue. .7 would have needed to be tested.	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	Namworld would you stop ?	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	any statement that claims "no amout of testing" is a lie by its nature	[18:34]
jcpham	red light.	[18:34]
smickles	Namworld: depends how you look at it no? the iss presented with the interaction of .8 and .7	[18:34]
smickles	something gavin was testing, just not toroughly enough	[18:35]
Namworld	The issue was in .7, if they tested .8 forever, they'd never have found the issue if they didn't use .7 in the testing.	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	obviously not the amount of testing they were willing to do in between chat session and harassinfg the userbase found it	[18:35]
jborkl_	I ran .7 and .8 versions, If I had run testnet and made a 1mb block I would have most likely broken .7	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	still, more testing WOULD have eventually found it.	[18:35]
smickles	Namworld: gavin said he would've caught it if he had tested a larger block on the testnet	[18:35]
Namworld	aye	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	smickles gotta give props to gavin, he's one of the few that are actually contrite enough.	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	he might be the only pro in the bunch, too.	[18:36]
smickles	he only tested 500k blocks, and it happened on a 900k block	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	967 or some shit	[18:36]
Namworld	I'm not saying it couldn't have been found, I'm just refuting that doing more testing on .8 would have given any result.	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	unauthoritatively my it says berkley seems to choke in this case over about 10k records	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	Namworld the "on .8" is a meaningless constraint.	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	who and why would be testing on .8 only ?!	[18:37]
jborkl_	really, only test a part of the code against itself?	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	jborkl_ for great lulz.	[18:37]
Namworld	I know... but people everywhere say that .8 should have been tested more so the issue would have been found.	[18:38]
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mircea_popescu	well yes. that is correct, it should have been,	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	nobody is saying "shouldhave been tested more by itself in a vacuum"	[18:38]
jborkl_	I just solo mined on .72 again last night until it was all figured out- I knew I kept .72 around and running for a reason	[18:38]
Namworld	ARGH	[18:38]
smickles	Namworld: i believe they do test for interaction with older versions	[18:39]
mircea_popescu	jborkl_ i've always been slow to upgrade, specifically for lack of faith.	[18:39]
MJR_	Namworld: I think what they mean is that part of testing a new release is testing it's interactions with other versions for backward compatiblity	[18:39]
smickles	they certainly outta now	[18:39]
Namworld	Don't you get it? I'm trying to refute people who think the issue is with .8 and that .8 alone should have been tested more...	[18:39]
jborkl_	Yeah, me too- I don't like being the first to change- bit me too many times	[18:39]
Namworld	Not that more proper testing would not have found the issue (proper with many versions). That more testing of .8 alone would have not changed anything.	[18:39]
Namworld	This is the only thing I'm trying to say.	[18:40]
smickles	personall, i include previous version interaction in the testing of one version	[18:40]
smickles	so it's a silly argument :P differences in definitions	[18:40]
Namworld	ah, I see.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	Namworld a, the issue isn't with .8	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	the issue is with berkley db, which was on the way out	[18:41]
Namworld	THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M FUCKING CLAIMING THAT THE ISSUE AIN'T ON .8!	[18:42]
jborkl_	people were all up in arms about having 80 to 1000 unconfirmed transactions waiting. with NO testing, people made larger blocks - that broke BDB	[18:42]
jborkl_	800	[18:42]
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Namworld	>.<	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	yes well, you went about it in a broken way.	[18:43]
Namworld	I'm talking about people making such claims... not about me making the same claims =/	[18:43]
jborkl_	It could have been handled and implemented properly	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	No amount of testing would have found the issue.	[18:44]
Namworld	@smickles: some people even claimed they sticked to an old version specially because of potential such issues with new versions when .8 wasn't the source of the problem. If they had switched it would have been an non-issue. We've reverted to accomodate the bug in .7 and not to leave people behind.	[18:44]
jborkl_	.8 should be used, but we are holding back so poor people with shitty connections and shitty hardware can still be here	[18:45]
Namworld	mircea: I was referring to testing of .8 alone. I'm made an omission in it. I've been trying to correct myself for like the last few minutes =/	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	Namworld no! rabble! rabble!	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:46]
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imsaguy	did someone say b00bies?	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	booties.	[18:47]
MJR_	lol, you know people can run either version and change the size of blocks they can accept or mine	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ not accept. just mine.	[18:47]
imsaguy	..	[18:47]
ThickAsThieves	so good http://2mellomakes.bandcamp.com/album/chrono-jigga	[18:47]
imsaguy	the problems is that other people accepted it	[18:47]
imsaguy	and then it got mined in	[18:47]
Namworld	I hate it when I forget something in a sentence and I'm getting argued against for 10 minutes when I have the same point of view as the one arguing against me.	[18:47]
imsaguy	so even if you didn't allow it, someone else did	[18:47]
imsaguy	and then your client chokes	[18:47]
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imsaguy	and you get stuck and don't get any new blocks	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	Namworld does it happen often ?	[18:47]
imsaguy	mircea_popescu: Namworld is usually arguing with himself.	[18:48]
Namworld	That's new. I don't recall that.	[18:48]
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Namworld	No. Maybe every month or the other.	[18:48]
jborkl_	They have identified it as .BDB has a limit and can be broken. .8 does not have a limit and seems fine. Lets move back to the broken	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	i enjoy arguing with him mostly because he seems to go about things in a totally different way than anyone else	[18:48]
Namworld	When typing fast.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	which is a great way to become a laughingstock, sure, but also a great way to find obscure bugs.	[18:49]
Namworld	Actually I find you go about things in a different way than anyone else...	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	of course i do.	[18:50]
MJR_	can't you change your code in .7 to accept larger blocks?	[18:50]
imsaguy	no	[18:50]
imsaguy	its bdb	[18:50]
imsaguy	.7 can already accept larger blocks	[18:50]
imsaguy	bdb can't handle the locking	[18:50]
imsaguy	too many tx in the block	[18:50]
Namworld	Almost all misunderstandings on Bitcoin IRC are with you. I usually go about quite well with almost everyone else.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	Namworld almost everyone else doesn't have much to say.	[18:50]
MJR_	ah I see	[18:51]
imsaguy	I'm glad I'm not almost everyone else	[18:51]
imsaguy	I have a shitton to say	[18:51]
MJR_	lol	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	imsaguy should i grep log for imsaguy ? :D	[18:51]
imsaguy	don't forget [\]	[18:51]
jborkl_	The problem glaring from this, now a obvious major problem is here and can be exploited again.	[18:51]
imsaguy	and pirateat40	[18:51]
imsaguy	oops	[18:51]
imsaguy	just [\]	[18:52]
MJR_	has anyone ever said "bitcoin-assets is great but I just wish it had as much drama as bitcointalk.com"	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	kik	[18:52]
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mircea_popescu	MJR_ it has moar.	[18:52]
Namworld	I think you are very literal on what sentences mean and interpret as little as possible. You avoid making too many inferences during a conversation so even small omissions can result in misunderstandings.	[18:52]
imsaguy	MJR_: they didn't have to	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	Namworld certainly. this way misunderstandings are found early.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	at least ideally.	[18:53]
imsaguy	;;seen usagi	[18:53]
gribble	usagi was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 days, 23 hours, 17 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: do it	[18:53]
imsaguy	aww	[18:53]
imsaguy	does he still owe people coins?	[18:53]
imsaguy	she/it*	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	imsaguy i think he's doing something with silver atm	[18:53]
Namworld	If it was a written text, I might make less omissions. When chatting tho, I type fast and usually omit things.	[18:53]
imsaguy	uh oh..	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	actually... what if usagi and eskimo bob joined forces	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	and created the world's first	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	silver easybake oven ?	[18:54]
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imsaguy	sounds like a methlab waiting to happen	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	when they get older.	[18:54]
imsaguy	how old is bob?	[18:54]
Namworld	bob? The eskimo?	[18:55]
jborkl_	put both of their ideas on how to make money together? 1+1=still is 0	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	should be like twentysomething i would guess	[18:55]
Namworld	Only bob I know around these parts.	[18:55]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152246.msg1615740#msg1615740	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	some of the funniest shit i read all day.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	this seems to be the contemporary brain disease, people reading stuff they don't understand here and there, mashing it into a sort of compound	[18:56]
jcpham	bitcoin is the worst	[18:56]
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Namworld	I think being heavily dependant on miners is actually what Satoshi wanted... miners vote with their hashing power... That's exactly how the system is supposed to work.	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[18:58]
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jborkl_	I like Death and Taxes response	[18:58]
Namworld	and devs can consult with mining pool when changing limits and send a warning so everyone upgrades directly to the client, should they want to make a change to allow scaling.	[18:58]
ThickAsThieves	they will still need to hard fork us again at some point, no?	[18:58]
Namworld	yes, they'll need to.	[18:59]
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ThickAsThieves	so does that not give malicious people a specific time in the future to plan for?	[18:59]
Namworld	But with proper warning and support from the community for the change, only the few not switching are left behind.	[18:59]
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mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yes, it does.	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	it really is a catastrophe, strategically	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	this time they werent prepared	[19:00]
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ThickAsThieves	next time they will be	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	just the puppy eyed idiots don't quite get what happened so raw raw we love devteam	[19:00]
Namworld	what kind of malicious stuff might there be?	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	planning to double spend?	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	Namworld you're proceeding on the wrong path.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	that's not how this works, "o, what bad stuff could happen?"	[19:00]
jborkl_	Well, first of all they need to plan the change sooner than later	[19:01]
Namworld	No, I mean malicious stuff from knowing ahead of time about a fork.	[19:01]
Namworld	Other than double-spend attacks	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	how would i know ?	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	we'll find out if we're unfortunate enough.	[19:02]
Namworld	But really, merchants/miners can plan ahead if they know. It's better if it's known in advance than not.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	even if we don't know that doesn't make the issue ok.	[19:02]
benkay	ra ra go devbs	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	knowing in advance there will have to be a hard fork is a weakness of the system.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	it may be reduced rto almost no cost, maybe	[19:02]
benkay	centralize us on a single buggy broken blatform	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	but it still costs > 0	[19:02]
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mircea_popescu	and incidentally, i wonder what OTHER exploits are there for berkley	[19:03]
Namworld	Well there will be forks...	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	that were illustrated by this but aren't limited to lage blocks	[19:03]
benkay	and for people who have trouble keeping up with the technical times, the costs are going to be higher next time	[19:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.1 = 2 BTC [+]	[19:03]
Namworld	That's pretty much unavoidable.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	benkay the top pool is pretty much bankrupt now, is it ?	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	courtesy of idiotteam doublewhammy-ing them	[19:03]
benkay	market dominance is never an indicator of technical competence	[19:03]
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mircea_popescu	be that as it may.	[19:03]
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Namworld	look at MtGox...	[19:04]
Namworld	good example	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	good point	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	;;goxlag	[19:04]
gribble	2.062621 seconds	[19:04]
benkay	heh/.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[19:04]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.116768121719 seconds	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	win.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	o boy will i be having fun with this.	[19:04]
benkay	what is mpexlag calculating?	[19:04]
Namworld	MtGox is pretty much constently lagging.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	the lag to talk to mpex, through a remote and a local proxy	[19:04]
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benkay	to the order-parsing system?	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	benkay the bot just measures the proxy response	[19:05]
ThickAsThieves	so i know they me seem ignorant, but just thinking out loud, is there not a way to make the bitcoin software part of the blockchain itself?	[19:05]
benkay	so to web server.	[19:05]
ThickAsThieves	to allow propagation of new versions?	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	it takes .11 seconds for an order to go from bot to remote proxy -> to local proxy -> to trade engine and back	[19:05]
benkay	oh okay	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	no that's not correct.	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	it takes .11 seconds for an order to go from bot to remote proxy -> to local proxy and back	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	you can't measure the trade engine from outside	[19:06]
benkay	what kind of volume would your trade engine have to see before it started lagging?	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	benkay i've seen > 10 orders per second irl	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	i've seen > 100 on testnet with the future config	[19:07]
benkay	grins	[19:07]
benkay	assuming you don't mean btc testnet?	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	(this has to be sustained at that level for an hour or so for things to start feeling it)	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	benkay no, my own. btc don't enter into it	[19:08]
smickles	benkay: i could have it place an order, to test, but the problem would be cancelling that order later	[19:08]
benkay	nods	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	mpex could trade on beenz if i wanted to, it's completely btc agnostic.	[19:08]
benkay	i get it man i get it	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	smickles actually the expansion on that is	[19:08]
benkay	namespace conflict	[19:08]
benkay	just resolving	[19:08]
smickles	mircea_popescu: would a better measure be sending a bunk order?	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	once i get the rest online, can you measure the lag for the entire $proxies list ?	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	smickles i think it's a fine measure as it is really.	[19:09]
smickles	i suppose i could	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	the way mpex works you get the trade engine lag printed rioght on each stat	[19:09]
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ThickAsThieves	any thoughts on somehow tying the bitcoin software to the blockchain itself? dumb idea?	[19:18]
Namworld	yes	[19:18]
smickles	ThickAsThieves: what purpose would it serve?	[19:19]
ThickAsThieves	propgation of new versions	[19:19]
ThickAsThieves	forced	[19:19]
Namworld	Would be catastrophic... no more voting on what changes you want	[19:19]
Namworld	Basically, someone controls Bitcoin	[19:19]
ThickAsThieves	how is that different	[19:19]
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smickles	yeah, right now, users 'vote', miners 'vote'	[19:20]
imsaguy	Namworld: not true	[19:20]
imsaguy	you can always compile your own bitcoin software	[19:20]
ThickAsThieves	i know I can't contol what devs and pools do	[19:20]
ThickAsThieves	voted or not	[19:20]
imsaguy	you vote with your hash	[19:20]
smickles	ThickAsThieves: but you don't have to go along with them	[19:21]
imsaguy	you vote with what you use	[19:21]
Namworld	Yeah. But almost the same if software upgrade is forced through the blockchain itself. Not sure how that could even work tho	[19:21]
imsaguy	well for example	[19:21]
Namworld	Anyway, I'm out.	[19:21]
imsaguy	you take the bitcoin.org reference software	[19:21]
imsaguy	and they say 'this version isn't good after block X'	[19:21]
imsaguy	you've just put an expiration date on the software	[19:21]
imsaguy	I'm not advocating they do this	[19:21]
smickles	where's the statics on what version people are running, i think there are a bunch still on .3	[19:22]
imsaguy	Luke-Jr has a graph page	[19:22]
imsaguy	but I don't know how often it updates	[19:22]
Luke-Jr	it's realtime	[19:22]
ThickAsThieves	its just lame that people can be left in the void	[19:22]
imsaguy	url?	[19:22]
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Luke-Jr	http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html	[19:22]
imsaguy	ThickAsThieves: Its on the of problems with Microsoft	[19:22]
imsaguy	they keep trying to support the morons that refuse to update	[19:22]
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imsaguy	if they cut people off cold turkey, they could cut a lot of hackjobs added to make old software work with the new stuff	[19:23]
ThickAsThieves	they have an obligation to their product	[19:23]
smickles	Luke-Jr: updated reasonably well?	[19:23]
Luke-Jr	[17:22:20] it's realtime	[19:23]
imsaguy	smickles: he said realtime	[19:23]
imsaguy	lol	[19:23]
smickles	oh, i should read	[19:23]
smickles	sry Luke-Jr	[19:23]
imsaguy	is realtime reasonably well?	[19:23]
imsaguy	NO!	[19:23]
imsaguy	MOAR!	[19:23]
Luke-Jr	[13-03-12 17:24:00] 1784/529458 available (520270 tried in 61095s, 9164 new, 24 active), 177 banned; 1692328 DNS requests, 112840 db queries	[19:24]
smickles	ThickAsThieves: look, about 2.45% of the network is using .3 still	[19:24]
imsaguy	Luke-Jr: could you make one that's futuretime?	[19:24]
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Luke-Jr	imsaguy: draw a big circle and write 1.0 in the middle?	[19:24]
imsaguy	yay!	[19:24]
imsaguy	no more beta	[19:24]
imsaguy	<.<	[19:24]
imsaguy	>.>	[19:24]
ThickAsThieves	betacoin	[19:24]
smickles	imsaguy: compile your own from .8 but modify it to say that it is 1.0	[19:25]
smickles	:D	[19:25]
ThickAsThieves	i'm just stuck on meta thoughts lately, i think its lack of sleep	[19:25]
smickles	.5 just gets no love	[19:25]
ThickAsThieves	make bitbets about bitbet! put bitcoin software on blockchain!	[19:26]
imsaguy	lol smickles	[19:28]
imsaguy	I am one of the unidentifieds	[19:28]
ThickAsThieves	we're all martian immigrants http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/12/4094534/nasa-curiosity-rover-discovers-ancient-mars-could-have	[19:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 10 @ 0.2 = 2 BTC [+]	[19:37]
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iz	ThickAsThieves: picture of xibit holding a picture of xibit	[19:42]
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ThickAsThieves	while looking in the mirror with a mirror behind him	[19:47]
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kakobrekla	is the chain back to normal?	[19:52]
kakobrekla	anyone having any txes hanging in the air?	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	everything is legit for me in all accounts	[19:52]
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mircea_popescu	kakobrekla should be fine.	[19:54]
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kakobrekla	hm	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	until someone figures out how to trigger the berkley bug with a smaller block	[19:54]
kakobrekla	i have some oldish txes	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	such as including 10k 160 byte txs	[19:55]
kakobrekla	still no confirm	[19:55]
kakobrekla	kinda worrying	[19:55]
deadweasel	;;ticker	[19:55]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.01770, Best ask: 45.01771, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 45.01771, 24 hour volume: 171261.27579910, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.46900, 24 hour vwap: 43.77026	[19:55]
deadweasel	back to 45!	[19:55]
deadweasel	a hard fork bounce :)	[19:56]
ThickAsThieves	btcguild at 13k	[19:56]
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mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves sorry ?	[19:57]
Anduck	any btct.co admins online?	[19:57]
mircea_popescu	burnside ^	[19:57]
ThickAsThieves	sry, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49417.msg1616550#msg1616550	[19:58]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.7 = 7 BTC [-]	[20:03]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1616671#msg1616671	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	"o, it was a bug in berkely db"	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	fucking idiots.	[20:07]
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MJR_	;;seen Josh_Rossi	[20:12]
gribble	Josh_Rossi was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 16 hours, 7 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: pretty sweet	[20:12]
MJR_	that is cool	[20:12]
pigeons	today I downloaded .7 and have been patiently waiting for my blockchain to download, im not sure if I will continue refunds or just buy a big crack rock and smoke it in a cave some where but I am totally offended by this scammer tag	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	you got a scammer tag ?!	[20:18]
pigeons	tom	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	lol totally offended okay.	[20:19]
pigeons	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=143496.msg1614693#msg1614693	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	so he couldn't do refunds all through february because the devs borked transition to .9	[20:19]
pigeons	yeah	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	.8*. in march.	[20:19]
pigeons	"if I was a scammer I could be living it up easy some place warm instead of braving the same upstate new york winters I have been for 30+ years"	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	well... let's just hope gavin sends him the correct lists then	[20:20]
pigeons	"If anyone has any idea how I can buy a large amount of bitcoins please message me. The largest amount I can buy from bitinstant is $500 worth ive looked and looked and its near impossible to make a large bitcoin purchase anywhere."	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	oh i see yeah	[20:21]
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mod6	to everyone else .... PEACE AND LOVE	[20:22]
mod6	lol	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	so here's the lol of today :	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	devs say berkeley is broken. it is fine. they forgot to configure it.	[20:23]
pigeons	yeah we know	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	this is possibly the worst case of "hi i am calling to report a bug" bungled tech support ever.	[20:23]
ZedsterX	the college?	[20:23]
ZedsterX	jk	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	pigeons i fear it'll take me a little to digest this one	[20:23]
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pigeons	you can configure it to use more locks, so far that seems to work just uses a lot more ram but works	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	the proof of something awful's general cluelessness/irrelevance is the low level mock articles they're pushing out.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	there's material here to scathe.	[20:25]
mod6	yeah BDB has been a thorn in dev's side for a decade. but sounds like this time they forgot about a landmine they already stepped on once before.	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	for people into sdice graphs : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80312.msg1614936#msg1614936	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	mod6 bring me up to speed, what exactly is the objection ? it is widely deployed and consequently well debugged by now	[20:27]
mod6	BTC needs a CVE or something or some sort of post mortum.	[20:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.57575758 = 2.8788 BTC [-]	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	http://i.imgur.com/HzcprPZ.png	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	this particularly is illustrative.	[20:29]
mod6	mircea_popescu: its not really an objection.	[20:30]
mod6	its just something to be cautious of	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	ya but i mean, why ?	[20:30]
mod6	it escapes me dude	[20:31]
mod6	its been too long	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	lol kk	[20:31]
mod6	so many problems over the years	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	just trying to get smarter over here :p	[20:31]
mod6	i couldn't possibly remember them all	[20:31]
mod6	im just depressed about this shit	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	i imagine a number of people are.	[20:31]
mod6	i was thinking about the gox issue...	[20:33]
mod6	and perhaps what we need is something like rootservers for fiat->btc exchanges	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	what are those ?	[20:34]
mod6	dns has root servers worldwide to resolve requests. thinking that maybe btc could do well to have like 10-13 worldwide exchanges all independant of eachother.	[20:35]
MJR_	like DNS ?	[20:35]
mod6	not that all the code should be the same.	[20:35]
MJR_	but also...those root servers have children	[20:36]
pizzaman1337	kakobrekla wants something like the way fx is setup	[20:36]
mod6	root servers don't keep the same code either, not exactly anyway, this way it prevents a simutaious attack against all	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	mod6 it would be good to have many exchanges, but there's problems with getting that to work in p[ractice	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	because exchanges concentrate liquidity and people chase liquidity	[20:36]
mod6	this will help distrbute the load of exchange, and then btc wont have 1 place to look for price signals.	[20:36]
MJR_	well, one thing is that instant settlement is going to be harder and harder to scale	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	personally i think the solution is fixing, but	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	few people involved actually have enough finance knowledge to get it going yet.	[20:37]
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kakobrekla	true	[20:37]
MJR_	fix protocol?	[20:37]
kakobrekla	gox mus die	[20:37]
kakobrekla	fix is shit	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ no gais. fixing.	[20:38]
MJR_	you lost me	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:18:00 ok, it's like this. suppose the three main dealers are A, B and C.	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:18:13 chair X calls the meeting. X proposes price, say 47.5	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:18:27 a, b and c go through their books, see what customers want, see what they want on their own account	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:18:45 then they say. a buys 50k usd. b sells 25k usd. c sells 70k usd.	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:18:52 25 + 70 > 50k so its not fixed	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:18:58 x has to call a lower price now	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:00 ah that kind of meeting you mean	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:01 say 47.3	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:08 now a b and c review their books	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:14 think i just need to add some sleep time....	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:14 42 12 40	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:15 etc	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	Mar 11 09:19:27 this process is called fixing, it's widely used to obtain a price.	[20:38]
mod6	and fixing this block size thing is kinda crazy. its like you know when you get a UDP request to your DNS server and the reply from the Zone is > than the max size of UDP, it rolls over to tcp	[20:38]
MJR_	well, again I think that could happen on a larger scale...	[20:39]
pgp	credit lines between exchanges to allow cross exchange arb would be an important start...	[20:39]
MJR_	yes exactly	[20:39]
mod6	i don't think im smart enough for this stuff.	[20:39]
MJR_	pgp: again instant settlement is not sustainable	[20:40]
kakobrekla	the first important step, realizing that.	[20:40]
pgp	this would also require something akin to DTCC (depositiory trust clearing corp) where every exchange is a member and keeps money on deposit...	[20:40]
MJR_	or even wise...since cold storage == instant	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	pgp that could easily be implemented using the mpex push for isntance	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	or independently, but pgp is a good solution to keep it safe.	[20:41]
pgp	indeed	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	problem is every exchange wants to act as if in a vacuum, because	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	they perceive they lack any distinguishing features	[20:41]
kakobrekla	the problem is exchange ops are retarded	[20:41]
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mircea_popescu	kakobrekla basically.	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	the problem with bitcoin in general is the userbase is dumb.	[20:42]
MJR_	well not educated financially	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	devteam, miners, pool ops, exchange ops, everyone is... you know... draftees	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	people picked off the street	[20:42]
MJR_	tech savvy	[20:42]
MJR_	you would be surprised how many financial wizards have trouble using email	[20:43]
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mod6	:(	[20:43]
pgp	yes - with the exception of bitfloor, it doesn't seem that these exchanges are run by anyone familiar with how "real" exchanges (and clearing operations) actually work...	[20:43]
kakobrekla	bitlol	[20:43]
mod6	i got trolled so hard by my gf for this shit yesterday	[20:43]
MJR_	so you need people who are tech AND finance savvy	[20:43]
kakobrekla	guy got fucked a comple of times no?	[20:43]
MJR_	he did	[20:43]
mod6	we're the laughing stock	[20:43]
kakobrekla	over confidend	[20:43]
kakobrekla	nt	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	pgp bitfloor, the guys currently owinfg like 900x what they'll ever make ?	[20:43]
MJR_	well...last I checked there was only one exchange that hasn't been hacked	[20:44]
pizzaman1337	so what is the "proper" way to run an exchange? where can I read about this?	[20:44]
kakobrekla	The book of Kako	[20:44]
kakobrekla	Kako accually means how	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 this ain't knitting we're discussiong here man.	[20:44]
kakobrekla	so it makes sense.	[20:44]
MJR_	well, paranoia does not an efficient market make	[20:44]
kakobrekla	lol mp	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	you read about it in school, which costs dough	[20:44]
kakobrekla	anywho brb	[20:45]
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pizzaman1337	schoool... that's what the internet is for	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	pizzaman1337 no but srsly, this is the sort of thing people pay in the 100's of k's for,	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	it's not exactly "go to wikipedia" sort of thing	[20:45]
MJR_	it is pretty sad that the biggest exchange can't handle orders in less than 5 min	[20:46]
pizzaman1337	well, there must be some info on it somewhere that I could get access too	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ mpex doesn't do fiat tho, so it's kinda moot for this problem	[20:46]
kakobrekla	s/5min/30min	[20:46]
MJR_	don't know of anyone getting hacked for fiat	[20:46]
pigeons	heh	[20:46]
pigeons	no?	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	what's sad is that they take ~5k a month in hardware costs to process 8k trades in 30 minutes	[20:46]
pigeons	look harder	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	if we scale this liniarly we discover it'd cost more than it's worth to have ti trade	[20:46]
MJR_	I meant the bitcoin exchanges	[20:47]
pigeons	yes	[20:47]
pgp	for starters, most all exchanges today pay you to add liquidity to their book - the so called "maker-taker" fee model.	[20:47]
MJR_	exactly what pgp said	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	pgp the reason is they're mixing bizdev with the fee schedule.	[20:48]
pigeons	mjr_ where have you been? bitininstant lost usd a few days ago	[20:48]
pigeons	what about bitcoinica? what about every single one?	[20:48]
MJR_	...	[20:48]
MJR_	they stole usd from the servers	[20:49]
MJR_	?	[20:49]
pigeons	yes	[20:49]
pgp	moreover, because like asset exchanges belong to the same "clearing clubs", they can route orders to one another to ensure "best execution" for their customers (while, of course, charging for that convenience)...	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	yeah ?	[20:49]
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mircea_popescu	pigeons wait. didn't bitinstant lose the BTC on vircurex ?	[20:50]
MJR_	front page hackers used DNS to steal 12000 worth of BITCOINS	[20:50]
pigeons	mircea_popescu: usd	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	um	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	usure ? cause i wrote about this and iirc shrem was saying btc	[20:50]
pigeons	via paypal from vircurex	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	i'll add it to research list cause wtf.	[20:51]
pgp	they weren't using two factor auth with that exchange...	[20:51]
pizzaman1337	http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2013/3/4/events-of-friday-bitinstant-back-online.html	[20:51]
pizzaman1337	"Overall, due to major choke points and redundancies in our system, the hacker was only able to walk away with $12,480 USD in BTC, and send them in 3 installments of 333 BTC to bitcoin addresses."	[20:51]
pigeons	sorry i meant virwox	[20:51]
pgp	you can lead a horse to water	[20:51]
MJR_	they listed the loss in dollars, but you can't send cash over a wire	[20:53]
MJR_	BTC was stolen	[20:54]
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MJR_	anyway I think there is a ton of room for competition to mt gox	[20:55]
mod6	yeah	[20:56]
mod6	there needs to be at least 3	[20:56]
mod6	all independant of eachother that aren't scams	[20:56]
MJR_	but even better opportunity for someone to route flow between exchanges	[20:56]
MJR_	lol, not being scams is key	[20:57]
mod6	and security	[20:57]
mod6	if they were modeled after mpex, that'd be a start	[20:57]
MJR_	I really think a gpg based order system would be nice	[20:57]
mod6	not the SAME code, but similar to avoid attacks upon a weakness found in one	[20:57]
mod6	similar to rootservers	[20:58]
MJR_	I agree	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	mod6 one of the key reasons why i keep the code closed.	[20:58]
mod6	nod	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	people would just mindlessly replicate it (see bitfinex) then we'll be well fucked	[20:58]
MJR_	but also...I really think node and branch will be needed	[20:58]
mod6	and really... the UDP (TCP when needed) is a model that the guys should be looking at to solve this blocksize issue	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	in a sense mpex is constructed exactly opposite of how bitcoin is constructed.	[20:59]
mod6	any thoughts on that? anyone know what I'm referring to?	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	keep the specification open and the implementation proprietary	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	versus the keep the specification equal to the unreadable codebase.	[20:59]
MJR_	know exactly what you are talking about	[20:59]
jcpham	you access mpex through open standards	[20:59]
MJR_	I wrote a program to monitor how often we need to fail over to TCp for our data feeds	[20:59]
jcpham	how it works is not your concern	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	mod6 originally i thought it was udp p2p	[21:00]
jcpham	unicorns are definitely walking in hamster wheels though	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	http://zgp.org/pipermail/p2p-hackers/2004-December/002221.html	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	it is after all 2004s stuff	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	but apparently...	[21:00]
MJR_	I think it's multicast tcp?	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ im not even sure at this point.	[21:01]
*	mod6 reads	[21:01]
MJR_	I think bitcoin-assets is the bleeding edge of the bleeding edge	[21:02]
jurov	mod6, how would UDP help in blocksize issuie?	[21:03]
MJR_	when you think that people on coinbase are probably still in the innovators (before 18%) stage...wow	[21:03]
pigeons	really? its second to -otc in stupid	[21:03]
pigeons	all your fancy exchange routing will be done via ripple	[21:04]
MJR_	I can't remember your exact quote mircea_popescu but something like "if you want to use crypto currency but don't understand cryptography..."	[21:04]
mod6	jurov: not UDP	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ something like that.	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	pigeons why isn't it now ?	[21:05]
mod6	jurov: we can learn a thing or two, perhaps, about how DNS solves the issue. UDP is meant to be fast, and arbitrarily large since forward/reverse zones can contain an large amount of entries.	[21:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.00755 BTC [+]	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	mod6 of course, the blockszie issue wasn't hitting the transport layer	[21:05]
MJR_	I think a central clearing corp, that only needs to transfer the diff between exchanges will be the best way	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ except on the day it gets attacked.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	i don't even mean government necessarily.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	look what happened in ny when the clearing corp got flooded	[21:06]
mod6	but when the size of UDP gets over 65,535 bytes (need to double check), it simply converts it to TCP and sends it that way. something can be learned from this, nothing more.	[21:06]
pigeons	mircea_popescu: cause people are transitioning from doing it via the private standalone django app to the new ripple but it is being done now	[21:06]
mod6	im not saying about the transport, or anything	[21:06]
mod6	im simply saying, look at how this problem was solved	[21:06]
MJR_	true	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	pigeons on superficial analysis ripple seems just the place where the curerent bitcoindev rats will sucrry to	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	once they get their altar broken for reals.	[21:06]
pigeons	yes perhaps, but currency liquidity flowed throug it before and will continue too,	[21:07]
mod6	i dunno, i guess i'd have to spend some time in there. and the client needs to be combed through	[21:07]
mod6	and hacked	[21:07]
jurov	mod6, maximal packet size (or MTU) is hard fact baked into ethernet from the beginning, not some broker earlier implementation	[21:07]
mod6	slice and dice shit out of there that needs to be replaced.	[21:08]
jurov	*broken	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	mod6 actually once you're done with the iphone app, a very good use of someone's time is to go through the codebase and summarize it	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	that;s usually a good step towards specification.	[21:08]
MJR_	mircea_popescu: what iphone app?	[21:08]
mod6	i never wanted to touch bitcoin's client or anything else because the #bitcoin-dev is filled with pompus retards	[21:08]
mod6	so i'll just my retard ass out of there	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ the bitotter thing he's working on	[21:08]
MJR_	ah cool	[21:08]
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jurov	mod6 good for ya. i did touch it and it didn't hurt.	[21:09]
jurov	but maybe i'm just crazy, going into anything	[21:09]
jurov	without such considerations	[21:09]
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mod6	i'd love to take the time to audit that shit, but who wants to fight with LukeJr and the others?	[21:09]
mod6	aint noone got time for that	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	mod6 i don't know who's listening to them.	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	a summary of the codebase is definitely useful.	[21:10]
kakobrekla	oh i read that "in summary the coinbase is defenetly useful" and got a heart attack almost	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:11]
kakobrekla	need more coffee.	[21:11]
MJR_	ain't no one got time for that indeed	[21:11]
mod6	yeah. its way out of hand	[21:12]
jcpham	http://micropoll.com/t/LE9JQZQhrI	[21:12]
jcpham	i'm doing much better in the poll today	[21:12]
jurov	mod6 i'm not interested in arguing. if i had time, i'll do a fork with some very useful function and wait for them to come	[21:12]
mod6	^^^	[21:13]
jurov	like my two independent wallets prototype: https://github.com/jurov/bitcoin	[21:13]
mod6	nice dude	[21:13]
mod6	any reason CPP?	[21:13]
jurov	cuz it's fork of bitcoind	[21:14]
mod6	or you just cloned and went forward?	[21:14]
mod6	ok	[21:14]
jurov	wasn't hard... couldn't understand why that function isn't exposed already	[21:14]
mod6	yeah, its WAY too large imho	[21:14]
jurov	prolly they don't have time to test properly xD	[21:15]
mod6	thats obvious to everyone in the world who pays attention	[21:15]
mod6	they should back away after this	[21:15]
jurov	well, they preferred to entagle themselves in multisig txs at the time	[21:16]
jurov	incidentally, they still don't have sane interface, too	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	pretty much everything about it is kludge.	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	i am still steaming over the fact that i can't create abitrary size txs	[21:17]
jurov	let's get to budapest for buncha asics and outmine them http://primeasic.com/order.php	[21:18]
jurov	lmao DUE TO OVERWHELMING REQUESTS we had to remove PayPal & Local Pickup options.	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	that thing stil around ?!	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	lolok	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	btc only rite ?	[21:19]
jurov	yes, only nonreversable nonpersonal means. fyr maximum security.	[21:19]
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mircea_popescu	due to overwhelming miner vote.	[21:20]
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mod6	for starters who does this? Dbc* pcursor = db.GetCursor();	[21:24]
mod6	i just hate looking at the client code. maybe its just their style.	[21:25]
mod6	its like: Dbc *pcursor = db.GetCursor();	[21:26]
mod6	wtf	[21:26]
mod6	lol	[21:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.3449 BTC [-]	[21:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.345 = 0.69 BTC [+]	[21:26]
mod6	at least the SSL code they copied looks to be better: BN_CTX *ctx = NULL;	[21:27]
pigeons	cross-posting for mircea_popescu cause he'll love it http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1a5um4/bitcointalk_a_successful_double_spend_us10000/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=Fancy+Show+Tech	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	bah.	[21:27]
mod6	ok i gotta walk away for a bit and think about this some more.	[21:28]
mod6	i still <3 you guys tho :)	[21:29]
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MJR_	:)	[21:30]
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benkay	mircea_popescu: what do you mean by arbitrarily-sized transactions?	[21:49]
benkay	actual kb on disk?	[21:49]
benkay	or in mem i suppose	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	i want to make a 750kb tx.	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	you know, 5000 inputs, 7000 outputs. my business.	[21:51]
assbot	[BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.076 BTC [-]	[21:52]
assbot	[BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.076 BTC [-]	[21:52]
benkay	mhm.	[21:52]
benkay	but noooooooo	[21:52]
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Anduck	mircea_popescu: lol?	[21:53]
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Anduck	and pay a huge fee of.. 0.1 btc!!	[21:53]
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mircea_popescu	that's my problem.	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	if the block can take it i can make it.	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	nobody gets to say i can't,	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	and more importantly bitcoind doesnt die with "failed to create transaction"	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	this sort of shit belongs in onboard code for vibrating dildoes at the most.	[21:55]
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Lyspooner	what about those of us who have been running 0.9	[21:56]
Lyspooner	?	[21:56]
benkay	now now.	[21:57]
benkay	it's a transient state. frustrating to be sure.	[21:57]
benkay	especially to those of us accustomed to flushing idiots out of systems with economics.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[21:58]
benkay	you mentioned something about the dev team starting work on a spec?	[21:58]
benkay	would you point me at that?	[21:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 3 @ 0.2 = 0.6 BTC [+]	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	i mentioned something about how they;'d better	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	or else.	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1617104#msg1617104 latest installment of bitchslapping	[21:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.724999 BTC [+]	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	sipa jgarzik: have we seen a block which affected 5000 transaction index entries?	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	jgarzik sipa: I don't think so	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	so much for testing	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	motherfucking...	[22:00]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.18 BTC [-]	[22:02]
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Lyspooner	The Church of Bitcoin and the Vatican Bitcoin Foundation have met Luther Popescu	[22:03]
mod6	so can we rewind the tape just a bit...	[22:05]
mod6	didn't this happen or something very similar to it before?	[22:05]
mod6	like on upgrade from version 4 to 5 or something? there was a night where they did an upgrade and the similar thing happened.	[22:05]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 87 @ 0.00559 = 0.4863 BTC [+]	[22:06]
mod6	i gotta look through btctalk for that sigh	[22:07]
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mod6	awe fuck it, i guess that's long ago anyway.	[22:09]
mod6	i hate that site	[22:09]
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jurov	mircea_popescu one thing i don't understand, you aren't going to hire any devs yourself cause it isn't worth the conflict and drama?	[22:11]
jurov	what do you plan to do, then?	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	jurov atm the plan ios to push for spec	[22:11]
mod6	it shouldn't be up to one dude to pay for all this shit...	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	and ideally remove the current devteam's license to release new clients.	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	past this point.	[22:11]
jurov	and who will do the spec? have any allies to do it together?	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	then once we have spec they can fix their fucked codebase and release a proper client	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	jurov : perhaps. one sec	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1614847#msg1614847	[22:13]
mod6	i just feel like, this should be like a HACK THE PLANET type thing, and people who want this to work will make it work.	[22:13]
mod6	im not sure what planet these guys are on, but if this is their baby and they have commitbits to the most widely used full-node base, they aught to make sure it functions correctly.	[22:14]
mod6	anyway, drives me up a wall, I'll tell you. :)	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[22:14]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.574 = 1.148 BTC [-]	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	jurov anyway, the problem isn't as much the drama, but moreover that a single-source codebase is both non-bitcoiny and suspect.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	but i think if we can get one (or ideally multiple) people to summarize the code	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	we can pretty much derive a spec from there.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	this wouldn't take much longer than a few weeks for a first draft, which can then be argued and refined	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	in my experience any devteam resists such an effort like cats resist washing, because coders love to write but hate having to read code.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	hiowever, once it's complete there's a few day's worth of facepalming and going "wait, we are doing W?HAT ?!"	[22:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.57577575 BTC [+]	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	after which everything's much better.	[22:20]
mod6	this is a solid plan.	[22:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.57999999 BTC [+]	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	mod6 in experience it tends to work.	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	of course it has to first get the cat into the washing machine.	[22:21]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 6 @ 0.58 = 3.48 BTC [+]	[22:22]
mod6	:}	[22:22]
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jurov	well, i'd love to and have no problems to read others code.. just that i'm neck deep elsewhere atm.	[22:22]
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mircea_popescu	i understand	[22:22]
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mircea_popescu	why it's called open source after all, sits there and waits for when / who has time for it	[22:23]
*	jcpham has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[22:23]
jurov	oh, that happens with all opensource without paid devs	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	here are the problems that i don't know how to solve.	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	a. i hire someone. well... this opens the political problem of "oh, he's mp's puppet".	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	b. i set up a prize which anyone may claim. well... this opens the idiocy problem of "oh, I don'tneed his money, what does me take for, a starving artist????"	[22:25]
mod6	right. no, this needs to be something that is adopted by the users of the system.	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	+ "it's not enough" drama + trying to get the pruize with as little work as possible etc	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	i'm kinda stuck to just talking atm because a and b.	[22:25]
*	oizotov (~irssi@gateway/tor-sasl/oizotov) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:25]
jurov	just hire someone. this muppet argument will ensue but code/doc will remain in the end	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[22:26]
jurov	i remember something like with linux and redhat	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	it's in any case not something i have to call today.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	jurov certainly.	[22:26]
jurov	maybe i'll hire amir taaki.. he'll do gladly for food and shelter	[22:27]
mod6	well, i think this bitcoin project is again an "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US." type of thing.	[22:27]
jurov	mod6 what outer space metaphors are you onto again....	[22:27]
mod6	the best kind	[22:28]
dub	so this fucking agent calls me in yesterday to show the same offer as last week, only on paper	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	jurov i bet you i can tell you have just by reading his output	[22:28]
dub	because numbers look different than they sound obviously	[22:28]
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mircea_popescu	ban them.	[22:29]
benkay	what are you taking offers on, dub?	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	russian bride	[22:31]
jurov	lol the vride isn't up to specs	[22:32]
jurov	*bride	[22:32]
dub	benkay: houses	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	jurov she's a little worn i nplaces.	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	and there's a crack	[22:32]
mod6	So, what I'm saying is, I think it's a really good thing to create a spec, and then everyone can punch eachother in the nuts over it until its perfect. This is the way to go.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	more like a gash really.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	mod6 werd.	[22:33]
benkay	there will eventually be an incentive for the miners to disregard devsquad	[22:33]
benkay	in retrospect, i'm a little surprised they didn't this time	[22:33]
mod6	I think, at least for myself, every time I had to write a paper, or have written some code; I've gone back the next day or at some later date and done a `wtf?'	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	benkay exactly.	[22:34]
benkay	^^ erryday.	[22:34]
mod6	even the other night, i wrote that code quick that worked. i mean, it kinda worked, in the way that it fucked a donkey.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	the btcguild people got fucked for ~2k btc because of it.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	this keeps up, soon enough idiots will not have the dough to keep going	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	much like btc finance was cleanned up.	[22:34]
mod6	but then you know, you review, you think about it, you make changes and it gets better.	[22:34]
benkay	it's a painful process	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	good.	[22:35]
benkay	dunno if i agree about that.	[22:35]
jurov	mod6 yea but if you don't painstakingly document it it just won't go past some threshold	[22:35]
benkay	i don't optimize for pain.	[22:35]
benkay	rather the opposite.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	i do.	[22:35]
benkay	heh.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	it delivers superb results.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	the more people are hurt, the better stuff comes out.	[22:35]
mod6	i beat dead horses	[22:35]
Lyspooner	where'd the 2k btc figure come from?	[22:36]
mod6	i've said that before. but usually my code works too.	[22:36]
mod6	;]	[22:36]
jurov	yes bitcoind usually works, too	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner they lost ~1.2k because the new .8 redownloaded the chain and they autopaid miners submitting as if low diff	[22:36]
mod6	haha	[22:36]
benkay	i optimize for pleasure within my in-group, and i let the rest of the world experience their own mistakes.	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	they lost a further however much cause of discarded blocks	[22:36]
Lyspooner	mircea_popescu were they auto-paying miners with coins older than 120 blocks since mined?	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	yes, the op was quite clear about having lost the 1.2k	[22:37]
Lyspooner	isn't that the op's fault then?	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	cause they did what tho ? upgraded ?	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	sure, it's their fault.	[22:38]
Lyspooner	anything faster than 120 blocks is the ops fault	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	because why ?	[22:38]
Lyspooner	they are paying miners with fresher coins than is safe	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	i don't think you understand the problem.	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	as the blockchain was being downloaded, the difficulty was corresponding to very old blocks, ie, very low.	[22:39]
jurov	Lyspooner pools attract noobs on fast payouts, is that surprising for you?	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	as miners submitted current work, they were paid for their share of contribution to that low difficulty	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	ie, very much.	[22:39]
Lyspooner	maybe i misunderstand mining pools' payouts. but if i do work now, i shouldn't be paid until t+120	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	yea well it's not how it works out in practice.	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	and speaking of that 120... YET MORE MAGIC NUMBERS FUCKING HELL	[22:41]
Lyspooner	but that's the risk that mining pool ops assume	[22:41]
jurov	kakobrekla you didn't got doublespended on smpake.com?	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner not detachedly from the general "trusting devteam" risk	[22:41]
kakobrekla	smpake is not operating since jan	[22:41]
jurov	ah smpake is down	[22:41]
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mod6	(13:35) < jurov> mod6 yea but if you don't painstakingly document it it just won't go past some threshold << documentation is amazing	[22:43]
mod6	i've read tons of technical manuals. i quite like the strangely.	[22:44]
mod6	*them	[22:44]
mod6	but... it doesn't have to be 50 volumes to be helpful either.	[22:44]
mod6	cause the source speaks volumes itself	[22:45]
mod6	but there can always be a little guidence on how it is designed, why something is implemented the way it is, etc.	[22:45]
mod6	i feel like we need a bitcoin RFC	[22:46]
Namworld	!ticker	[22:46]
assbot	Quest for vision is a great blessing.	[22:46]
Namworld	hmm, assbot is there	[22:47]
assbot	sup mah niggah	[22:47]
maximian	assbot thinks its people	[22:47]
maximian	;;ticker	[22:47]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 45.97092, Best ask: 46.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02908, Last trade: 46.00000, 24 hour volume: 179859.80684158, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.39999, 24 hour vwap: 43.75220	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	lol	[22:48]
*	evoorhees (~evoorhees@rrcs-50-74-23-186.nyc.biz.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:49]
maximian	market doesn't seem terribly concerned about about all this	[22:49]
*	evoorhees is now known as Guest9131	[22:49]
maximian	at least for now	[22:50]
jurov	and seeing evoorhees, "blockchain forks. satoshi dice not affected" i guess	[22:50]
maximian	SatoshiDice bet sizes not being affected by the exchange rate is a nice surprise	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	github down ?	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	jurov he had processing turned off for a little.	[22:52]
jurov	that would be funny if satoshidice kept functional on both sides of the fork	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	jurov it would be trivial to implement	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	idiot parade is lucky that evoorhees is a sweetheard, even if they treat him like dirt.	[22:57]
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mod6	(12:08) < mircea_popescu> mod6 actually once you're done with the iphone app, a very good use of someone's time is to go through the codebase and summarize it	[23:05]
mod6	(12:08) < mircea_popescu> that;s usually a good step towards specification.	[23:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.00559 = 0.1118 BTC [+]	[23:06]
mod6	maybe bitotter can wait	[23:06]
mod6	cause i feel like i want to clone and start going through this thing again. last year, I made a shit load of my own changes to get it working on freebsd properly.	[23:06]
mod6	anyway, I'll pull to linux and go through the code.	[23:07]
mod6	i wont start by making any changes to the source, just review it as I can.	[23:07]
mod6	yall should be doing the same thing.	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	mod6 but listen	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	you gotta finish projects too	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	if you only start them, work for some, then start new one... lot of wasted work man.	[23:10]
mod6	well, fair enough.	[23:10]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.1 = 2 BTC [+]	[23:13]
*	Thinker_ (~Thinker~@cpe-24-59-184-164.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 1 @ 0.39 BTC [+]	[23:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	pigeons https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1617557#msg1617557	[23:24]
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mircea_popescu	for your pleasure.	[23:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 2 @ 0.1987 = 0.3974 BTC [+]	[23:25]
Lyspooner	what's a spec	[23:26]
*	thepok (~thepok@068-112-109-134.csn.tu-chemnitz.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:29]
Lyspooner	http://i.imgur.com/NncJ5fI.jpg	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	a specification	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	spec stands to code in the same relationship contract stands to trade.	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	you can have trade without contracts but it's a recipe for disaster.	[23:31]
Lyspooner	i understand it only metaphorically now	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	that puts you muchly ahead of bitcoin-dev people.	[23:32]
*	Guest9131 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[23:32]
mircea_popescu	they don't understand it at all.	[23:32]
Lyspooner	sweet	[23:33]
Lyspooner	i'm going to start a foundation	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 24 @ 0.00999 = 0.2398 BTC [+]	[23:33]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[23:34]
mircea_popescu	P T Barnum's Magical Trading Cards & Bitcoin Esoteric Foundation ?	[23:35]
Lyspooner	I was thinking: The Bitcoin Best Guess Foundation	[23:36]
Lyspooner	or Whatever Kinda Works	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	or that yeah	[23:37]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 5 @ 0.1 = 0.5 BTC [+]	[23:57]
*	corpsan (~bvanderve@c-98-246-107-37.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:59]

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