Forum logs for 11 Jul 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* ag3nt_zer0 (328f93cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.143.147.207) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:05]
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mats https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2015-July/000040.html [00:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mlz98e ) [00:10]
mats yet another mitm bug [00:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10980 @ 0.00052216 = 5.7333 BTC [-] {2} [00:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9405 @ 0.00051075 = 4.8036 BTC [-] [00:13]
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mats "Every person given a government background check for the last 15 years was probably affected, the Office of Personnel Management said in announcing the results of a forensic investigation of the episode, whose existence was known but not its sweeping toll." << lol, fuck. i'm in this db. [00:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00053341 = 2.3737 BTC [+] [00:17]
ag3nt_zer0 Wonder if anyone can help ... Am I missing a step when trying to rate somebody? do I have to do something beyond "!rate" command? I ask because I do not see my rating as having appeared to the recipients via BTC Alpha... should I see it or is my rating just not appearing amongst the others because I am not a trusted relationship at this point? [00:17]
mats btcalpha updates once a day, ag3nt_zer0 [00:18]
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ag3nt_zer0 mats: it's been a couple days [00:19]
ag3nt_zer0 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-07-2015#1193125<< is that all I was supposed to do? [00:20]
assbot Logged on 08-07-2015 06:22:31; ag3nt_zer0: !rate shinohai 1 great help to noob [00:20]
mats did you decrypt the otp and send it to assbot? [00:21]
ag3nt_zer0 nope haha [00:21]
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mats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197460 << !v [00:21]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 02:40:47; mats: !v assbot:mats.rate.moneycat.1:801ec5c77ea271e6dad662052dfc4363a1843c6cc5bc53dcd6609361c20777a5 [00:22]
ag3nt_zer0 how long before an otp expires? [00:25]
gabriel_laddel trinque: fyi `trace' doesn't trace across threads in mcclim unless you use M-x slime-trace-dialog [00:27]
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ag3nt_zer0 i mean how long before otp link expires... those arent working from the other day [00:27]
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mats no idea [00:27]
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ag3nt_zer0 cool thx [00:27]
ag3nt_zer0 try this again [00:28]
ag3nt_zer0 !rate trinque 1 very helpful to noob [00:28]
* assbot removes voice from Luke-Jr [00:29]
mats extraneous space prepended there [00:29]
ag3nt_zer0 !rate trinque 1 very helpful to noob [00:31]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/70fced5bf301b100 [00:31]
ag3nt_zer0 haha [00:31]
ag3nt_zer0 !v assbot:ag3nt_zer0.rate.trinque.1:6cfc2b3e5683499ec7116014e0dccbd14c25d77d8ed9adc92f6df57d4ea8f7f8 [00:33]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for trinque with note: very helpful to noob [00:33]
ag3nt_zer0 ;;rate shinohai 1 great assist to newb [00:35]
gribble Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system. [00:35]
ag3nt_zer0 !rate shinohai 1 great assist to newb [00:36]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/7c23d2b18b359e01 [00:36]
ag3nt_zer0 !v assbot:ag3nt_zer0.rate.shinohai.1:eecbbcd8e1da919dc77a78e03fc9ef6eb780d132a98b002b39c375244bf75a83 [00:37]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for shinohai with note: great assist to newb [00:37]
ag3nt_zer0 mats: thanks [00:37]
mats np. fwiw, you can talk to assbot in PM [00:38]
ag3nt_zer0 oh ok thx [00:38]
gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178327 << What is the 'lisp' of mathematics? [00:38]
assbot Logged on 26-06-2015 21:39:21; ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178148 << will add to this. in every single field i dive into, i find these 'lisps' - i.e., the ~actual~ state-of-the-art buried under piles of shit strategically crapped out by one, two, more generations of mediocrities [00:38]
gabriel_laddel I'd love to have a list of lisps all fields you've dived into if possible. [00:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31621 @ 0.00051075 = 16.1504 BTC [-] [00:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35130 @ 0.00052178 = 18.3301 BTC [+] [00:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5770 @ 0.00052178 = 3.0107 BTC [+] [00:47]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, apparently no one signs them. [00:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34930 @ 0.00053341 = 18.632 BTC [+] [00:48]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197311 << all this meta comentatory bs. "what has luigi's wive said about giovanni's girlfriend ? what has the mother of the coach's sister said about what the wife said about the girlfriend ? what are people saying about what people said about what was said about some talks some said they had at some point regarding what was said earlier ?" [00:53]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 01:10:17; decimation: "Sanfilippo described Vincenzetti as a very liberal person interested in protecting free speech, someone who saw cryptography as "a means to protect communications." But over time, Vincenzetti's view evidently evolved to allow the security professional to found Hacking Team. " [00:53]
mircea_popescu italian daytime tv conquered the fucking world. [00:53]
decimation heh yeah pretty much [00:53]
decimation I think most 'adults' in the west would prefer to live in a tv program [00:54]
decimation and/or imagine that they would be 'good' in one [00:54]
mircea_popescu i don't even give a shit who this vincenzetti derp is. why the fuck would i now care about a sanfilippo derp [00:54]
cazalla meh i just saw pgp in the headline, read it and thought perhaps might appeal to others here [00:55]
mircea_popescu equires some schlep << why do people insist to use words in languages they don't speak. [00:55]
mircea_popescu it's almost as bad as sleeping with women you don't own. [00:55]
decimation mircea_popescu: 90% of modern 'journalism' is 'the story behind the story behind the story', most of which is bullshit [00:56]
mircea_popescu myeah. [00:56]
* mircea_popescu skips the Luke-Jr, vexual etc lines in the logs. not sure why people keep feeding the weird, but anway. [00:58]
decimation I was curious about the particular census mechanism, and the degree of support amoung 'bitcoin core' 'devs' [01:00]
mircea_popescu might as well ask whats his face "bitcoin godfather" about gaming or keiser's ho whatever her name was about "telejournalism" [01:01]
decimation it would make great foddler for journalism, his answers [01:02]
mircea_popescu just... you know, go ask reddit what it thinks on reddit, and the power rangers on #power-rangers or wherever the fuck they hang out these days. [01:02]
mircea_popescu i especially do not appreciate the b-a equivalent of a convicted felon being treated as he may have an opinion on matters. [01:03]
mircea_popescu the man lied. publicly. for profit. [01:03]
mircea_popescu why entertain such scum ? [01:03]
decimation luke-jr? [01:03]
mircea_popescu yes luke-jr [01:03]
mircea_popescu an entire den of fraudsters and con men they got going there, not like phantomcircuit's anyone else than the bitcoinica thief etc. [01:05]
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mircea_popescu " As Wal-Mart gets the lion’s share of food stamp transfers [EBT cash and food] than this operation amounts to a 19th century Appalachian coal mine with its own company store, with over half of the employees spending most—or even more than—their salary at the Wal-Mart register, literally a captive market and labor force in one." [01:10]
mircea_popescu this is actually an excellent point - walmart is not a shop, it's a shit circuit. [01:10]
decimation it's been well covered in the us media that walmart 'arbitrages' usg benefits/slaves into profit [01:11]
decimation mr. lafound makes a novel point (to me) that the rich folk (think jwz) are equally complict, thinking that saving $0.25 on eggs at walmart is purely neutral [01:13]
mircea_popescu i dun think this is much of a novel point. fundamental point. "be the change you wish to see" etc. [01:14]
hanbot people are going to be sucked into convenience > quality (sanity) so long as they can't appreciate what quality is. i had a visitor in romania who had never seen good egg yolks, thought they were "suspicious" [01:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00053341 = 27.8973 BTC [+] [01:18]
decimation in the us, to be against 'walmart profits' is to be labeled a socialist. it's rarely the case that someone points out the degree to which walmart profits are dependent on socialism themselves [01:19]
hanbot right, because why proclaim something that might lead to having to do more work [01:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64423 @ 0.00051817 = 33.3821 BTC [-] {2} [01:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51409 @ 0.00052203 = 26.837 BTC [+] {2} [01:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9647 @ 0.00052634 = 5.0776 BTC [+] [02:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00051761 = 24.3277 BTC [-] [02:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00051072 = 32.5329 BTC [-] {3} [02:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43819 @ 0.00051202 = 22.4362 BTC [+] [03:07]
Naphex 04:14 <+hanbot> people are going to be sucked into convenience > quality (sanity) so long as they can't appreciate what quality is. i had a visitor in romania who had never seen good egg yolks, thought they were "suspicious <- Happens pretty often [03:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68550 @ 0.00051063 = 35.0037 BTC [-] [03:11]
punkman how do you decide a good egg yolk? [03:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27092 @ 0.00051063 = 13.834 BTC [-] [03:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31350 @ 0.00050955 = 15.9744 BTC [-] {2} [03:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56194 @ 0.00051202 = 28.7725 BTC [+] [03:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00051159 = 26.1422 BTC [-] [03:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36402 @ 0.00051292 = 18.6713 BTC [+] {3} [04:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00051618 = 16.3113 BTC [+] [04:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37214 @ 0.00050521 = 18.8009 BTC [-] [04:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00050406 = 28.4794 BTC [-] {2} [04:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00051621 = 19.2546 BTC [+] {2} [04:51]
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jurov punkman: it has vivid yellow color [04:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00052065 = 22.3359 BTC [+] {2} [05:00]
jurov and when used as ingredients, it colors the dough or whatever, too [05:00]
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punkman jurov, people like the darker orange yolks here [05:03]
punkman yellow yolk means it's probably eating corn [05:04]
jurov they can be orange, too, no prob... just the color is weak [05:04]
cazalla whites not runny either! [05:05]
jurov yolk racism? [05:05]
punkman I mostly care about whether the owner of the chickens is in wot rather than colour [05:06]
jurov oh, if you scarcely have eggs from supermarket, then it's hard to explain, either :) [05:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37850 @ 0.00052629 = 19.9201 BTC [+] {2} [05:10]
cazalla miss my chickens, rip in peace http://i.imgur.com/5UdH5PC.png gonna get some new ones in the spring [05:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1pJBM ) [05:10]
punkman http://aspajournal.it/index.php/ijas/article/viewFile/1745/html_9/8434 [05:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1pKFI ) [05:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00050847 = 8.6694 BTC [-] [05:11]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [12:58]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [12:58]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [12:58]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [12:58]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [12:58]
mircea_popescu ;;seen diametric [12:59]
gribble diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 49 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: possible to get a sample capture? [12:59]
mircea_popescu diametric you're getting ddos'd again, and apparently it's ever more impressive. you want a filter in front of this thing or what. [13:00]
mircea_popescu which reminds me, shinohai you ever got email ? [13:01]
shinohai nope never got another email :/ [13:03]
shinohai plus i only have one good wallet and it broke, so i am 34 weeks behind xD [13:04]
mircea_popescu lol k [13:05]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197303 << is he a bit of an autist ? [13:06]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 00:37:04; gernika: "Ellen Pao, the interim chief executive officer of Reddit, will be succeeded by Steve Huffman." << Met this guy (Steve Huffman) years ago at a YC startup school event. Had a brief discussion with him about lisp (don't recall the dialect he used). [13:06]
mircea_popescu in any case reddit's a chapter right out of the lolbook of failmanagement, you get an interim ceo to ease the transition to... one of the old founders ? that board is so stupid it can sit with the worst of 'em, http://trilema.com/2010/cel-mai-prost-board-din-istorie/ and so on. [13:08]
assbot Cel mai prost Board din istorie on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0QyCY ) [13:08]
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gernika mircea_popescu no he seemed to make eye-contact, connect, etc. Aaron Schwartz, who I met at a similar such party (possibly even the same one) struck me as being much more of an autist. [13:17]
mircea_popescu aha [13:18]
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* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [13:20]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell bingoboingo for your qind qntsideration : http://dpaste.com/3FCEZ41.txt [13:21]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:21]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0R83o ) [13:21]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell cazalla and yours ! http://dpaste.com/2W2J79K.txt [13:23]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:23]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0RdnG ) [13:23]
mircea_popescu lol you got one for each ? [13:23]
pete_dushenski lol no ? [13:23]
mircea_popescu ah k [13:24]
pete_dushenski same article, encrypted to each of their keys [13:24]
pete_dushenski usual protocol [13:24]
mircea_popescu you knoiw you can just do gpg --encrypt --armor -r one -r theother righjt ? [13:24]
pete_dushenski this is true. [13:24]
pete_dushenski dunno why i'm in the habit of giving them each one. [13:25]
pete_dushenski presents are moar speshul when they're just for you ! [13:25]
mircea_popescu and in other news : eulora is currently being practically re-written, because fucking idiots and their fucktarded assumptions. "oh, nobody could POSSIBLY ever want an int other than ~16!!!!~ bit". as a result, the skill display in game behaves eratically. as a result, all places that use ints and were apparently not upgraded to 32 bit because too much fucking work are now getting redefined as 64 bits. [13:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42200 @ 0.00050081 = 21.1342 BTC [-] [13:26]
mircea_popescu because it's apparently still 1959 and nobody came up with a "machine length" int yet. [13:26]
pete_dushenski lame. [13:27]
pete_dushenski eulora thrills > mpoe thrills eh [13:28]
pete_dushenski no one rewriting mpoe anytime soon [13:28]
mircea_popescu myeah. [13:29]
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pete_dushenski so eta on new eulora ? [13:30]
mircea_popescu it's sitll going as it is, just the experience filling bar of skills is fucked up [13:31]
mircea_popescu minor visual glitch [13:31]
pete_dushenski ah cool beans [13:32]
pete_dushenski ;;ticker [13:35]
gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 293.45, Best ask: 293.49, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 293.49, 24 hour volume: 55886.98510595, 24 hour low: 282.7, 24 hour high: 299.56, 24 hour vwap: None [13:35]
pete_dushenski *that* close to 300 [13:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00051186 = 15.3558 BTC [+] [13:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14049 @ 0.00051186 = 7.1911 BTC [+] [13:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2175 @ 0.00052321 = 1.138 BTC [+] [13:51]
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pete_dushenski !up ascii_modem [14:09]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_modem [14:09]
ascii_modem http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197674 << int [14:09]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 16:22:48; mircea_popescu: because it's apparently still 1959 and nobody came up with a "machine length" int yet. [14:09]
ascii_modem long int [14:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69550 @ 0.00051124 = 35.5567 BTC [-] {2} [14:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14527 @ 0.00050133 = 7.2828 BTC [-] {2} [14:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23541 @ 0.00049944 = 11.7573 BTC [-] {3} [14:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52650 @ 0.00051577 = 27.1553 BTC [+] [15:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52845 @ 0.00051204 = 27.0588 BTC [-] {2} [15:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11924 @ 0.00051141 = 6.0981 BTC [-] [15:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67850 @ 0.00050823 = 34.4834 BTC [-] {3} [16:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51750 @ 0.00050435 = 26.1001 BTC [-] {2} [16:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38461 @ 0.00051887 = 19.9563 BTC [+] {3} [16:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110500 @ 0.0005224 = 57.7252 BTC [+] {2} [16:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00051176 = 10.4911 BTC [-] [16:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00051176 = 12.7172 BTC [-] [16:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64606 @ 0.0005236 = 33.8277 BTC [+] {2} [16:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2394 @ 0.0005365 = 1.2844 BTC [+] {2} [16:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50264 @ 0.00053656 = 26.9697 BTC [+] {2} [17:11]
punkman heh "Finnish media reports that Germany, Holland, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia want "temporary" #Grexit" [17:14]
danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2015#1196949 << 1 Corinthians 7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. [17:20]
assbot Logged on 10-07-2015 19:33:32; mircea_popescu: ascii_field i still have no idea why anyone'd get married, but then again i'm weird like that. [17:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00053657 = 11.6972 BTC [+] [17:21]
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danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2015#1196970 << leg is different from boobs because child born of the former can still be expected to look similar to parents while child of latter may not [17:23]
assbot Logged on 10-07-2015 19:37:48; mircea_popescu: and especially nonsensical given that there's an exactly just as silly, but opposite direction social convention : people going around with a prosthetic leg are apparently GREAT!11 [17:23]
danielpbarron ;;isitup search.bitcoin-assets.com [17:25]
gribble Error: "isitup" is not a valid command. [17:25]
danielpbarron ;;isdown search.bitcoin-assets.com [17:25]
gribble Error: "isdown" is not a valid command. [17:25]
danielpbarron ;;isup search.bitcoin-assets.com [17:25]
gribble search.bitcoin-assets.com is down [17:25]
danielpbarron no, but we know from Solomon that there is an upward bound that isn't specified [17:26]
danielpbarron !s Jian Feng [17:26]
assbot : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Jian+Feng [17:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00053657 = 4.6413 BTC [+] [17:28]
danielpbarron Deuteronomy 17:16 But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.' 17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself. [17:29]
danielpbarron http://www.atruechurch.info/polygamy.html >> As for a king who breached Deuteronomy 17:17, Solomon is the classic example. He had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3). Yet, even though Solomon obviously multiplied wives to himself, the Lord condemns Solomon, in particular, for his marriage of foreign women (1 Kings 11:1-2; Deuteronomy 7:1-4) and the resultant idolatry (1 Kings 11:4). [17:29]
assbot A True Church - Polygamy ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hv0PTP ) [17:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8523 @ 0.00052006 = 4.4325 BTC [-] [17:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00053657 = 6.8681 BTC [+] [17:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00053657 = 20.0141 BTC [+] [18:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16659 @ 0.000536 = 8.9292 BTC [-] [18:06]
scoopbot_revived Pirate Bay Four Acquitted Of Charges http://qntra.net/2015/07/pirate-bay-four-acquitted-of-charges/ [18:11]
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trinque am I noticing that the price of mpex trends upward before the price of bitcoin does? [18:22]
scoopbot_revived Mining Difficulty Reaches New High http://qntra.net/2015/07/mining-difficulty-reaches-new-high/ [18:22]
trinque I'd like to see that graph [18:22]
* trinque goes to check out btcalpha [18:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13341 @ 0.00052006 = 6.9381 BTC [-] [18:22]
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mats dun think there's any correlation [18:23]
trinque maybe not [18:26]
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trinque gabriel_laddel: got a recommendation on something that'll bust out docs for *any* symbol? [18:32]
trinque I want hyperspec.el for errethang [18:33]
cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197651 <<< does not appear he will ban /r/coontown https://archive.is/UE0n9 meanwhile coontown banned me from their irc channel [18:33]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 16:02:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197303 << is he a bit of an autist ? [18:33]
assbot airwx comments on I am Steve Huffman, the new CEO of reddit. AMA. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LYrH4T ) [18:33]
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trinque maybe just getting eldoc to barf out the docstring for the thing at point would suffice [18:35]
gabriel_laddel trinque: M-x slime-describe-symbol [18:40]
trinque yeah, I basically want that guy jammed into eldoc [18:41]
gabriel_laddel trinque: do you know elisp? [18:41]
trinque I can fart around in it [18:41]
gabriel_laddel trinque: alright, gimme a minute and I'll write it for ya [18:41]
trinque cool! [18:42]
gabriel_laddel ftr, no one should have to learn elisp. it is a shit language. [18:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00052345 = 15.2324 BTC [+] [18:51]
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gabriel_laddel trinque: wait, is this for CL or elisp [18:55]
gabriel_laddel or both [18:55]
trinque CL [18:55]
trinque but both sure [18:55]
gabriel_laddel well, doing both is sorta a PITA, so I'll prolly decline that [18:55]
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trinque heh, np [18:55]
trinque don't even have to do the former unless you want to [18:55]
gabriel_laddel but there already exists a printer for the value of the symbol at point [18:55]
gabriel_laddel so I just have to find that, modify the format string [18:56]
gabriel_laddel the end [18:56]
trinque I'll take all the CL prosthetics I can get [18:56]
gabriel_laddel trinque: have you been using the CLIM listener in your CL hacking? [18:56]
trinque I haven't really, other than with the intent to learn about CLIM [18:57]
trinque current thing I'm hacking on is that api server guy [18:57]
trinque I'm open to hearing how I'd use CLIM there [18:57]
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gabriel_laddel I can't speak to that, but using the class browser is a great boon to CL development. [18:58]
gabriel_laddel I ended up binding it to f8, as was tired of pulling it up all the time. [18:58]
trinque ah ok; yeah, paging through the hyperspec is my current method of discovering new functions to use [18:58]
trinque I'll try your suggestion there [18:59]
gabriel_laddel trinque: try `apropos' and note that you can display all generic functions for a class using the left click. [18:59]
phf gabriel_laddel: have you been using mcclim for day to day hacking? last time i tried it, it was very slow. but then it was on a ppc machine, so maybe moore's law took care of that [19:01]
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gabriel_laddel phf: My dashboard (which I use every day) is CLIM. I edit text in CLIMACS from time to time, use the listener to browse classes. [19:02]
gabriel_laddel earlier I started to modify the address book to handle my rolodex [19:03]
gabriel_laddel also, I'm using it at work [19:03]
gabriel_laddel :/ [19:03]
gabriel_laddel so yet? [19:03]
gabriel_laddel *yes? [19:03]
phf hmm, might be worth giving it a try then. i wrote some code with clim a while back, but that was using lispworks [19:04]
gabriel_laddel phf: the whole "backends" thing (which lispworks uses) is retarded. [19:05]
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gabriel_laddel the only way to go is all lisp [19:05]
gabriel_laddel CLX+stumpwm+CLIM [19:05]
gabriel_laddel perhaps someone will take the time to hack the "zen" X server into this stack [19:05]
trinque I'll be fine seeing someone stick a chisel in the ear of emacs, breaking it into the several pieces it should've been [19:07]
phf lispworks clim is a life support for legacy systems, and as such their technical decisions have merit [19:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31586 @ 0.00051847 = 16.3764 BTC [-] {2} [19:08]
trinque gabriel_laddel: seems the further down the stack lisp might reach, the more the argument that it should be coming from the bottom up applies [19:09]
gabriel_laddel trinque: sure. [19:09]
gabriel_laddel phf: yeah, sure. but being a hospice cog isn't fun [19:09]
gabriel_laddel trinque: fundamentally the only way I see this happening is by getting a great prince to "see" why it is one would like such a thing. [19:10]
gabriel_laddel hence, I'm pushing for lispy demos everywhere [19:10]
gabriel_laddel so they go back to windows and rage [19:10]
trinque gabriel_laddel: indeed, I "see what you did there" so to speak [19:10]
gabriel_laddel I'd never phrase it like that, but sure. [19:11]
gabriel_laddel MP is on the verge of understanding. [19:11]
trinque well more specifically [19:11]
trinque I wouldn't even be bothering now if I hadn't used emacs for years prior [19:11]
trinque I compared masamune to emacs somewhere in teh logz [19:12]
gabriel_laddel I'm not really sure what you're getting at? [19:12]
gabriel_laddel I saw that. [19:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37150 @ 0.0005033 = 18.6976 BTC [-] [19:12]
trinque emacs is what a guy whose seen a lisp machine builds on unix [19:12]
trinque with the pragmatism dial set somewhere middling [19:12]
gabriel_laddel Emacs is Stallman hating the lisp machine. Pragmatic my arse. [19:13]
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trinque gabriel_laddel: dunno if my point is coming across. [19:14]
gabriel_laddel not at all [19:14]
gabriel_laddel Spending a year learning elisp, and then a year unlearning it because it's a dead end isn't pragmatic at all. [19:14]
gabriel_laddel fucking stallman [19:14]
trinque I use pragmatic as a dirty word [19:14]
gabriel_laddel should have just used CL [19:14]
gabriel_laddel trinque: I'm still not sure what you're getting at... [19:15]
trinque emacs is the closest thing I as a derp coming into the industry in 2006 would ever find which somewhat resembled the experience that was possible *before I was goddamn born* [19:15]
trinque *dev experience [19:16]
gabriel_laddel hrm.. I'll drop something in the logs about forwards compatibility sometime. [19:18]
trinque I'm trying to say something about acts of desperation around preserving a dying (better) culture in the midst of an insane one. [19:19]
trinque coming up short atm, and gotta run [19:19]
trinque obviously I want stan's fucking c-gate flowputer if it would mean I can actually reason about the machine's behavior [19:20]
trinque barring that... sbcl on unix? or some other compromise? [19:20]
trinque if you'd cracked warp drives, yet were surrounded by imbeciles that couldn't use the knowledge if they tried, maybe you might try to stash the knowledge in some corner of the world where it may re-emerge later [19:22]
trinque *from which it [19:22]
trinque bbl [19:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.0005033 = 20.887 BTC [-] [19:31]
gabriel_laddel !rated mjr_ [19:36]
assbot mjr_ is not registered in WoT. [19:36]
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phf gabriel_laddel: have you seen, nyef is making a new clim version, i think i read something about framebuffer backend [19:38]
phf https://github.com/abridgewater/nq-clim [19:38]
assbot abridgewater/nq-clim · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1O2m4Sr ) [19:38]
gabriel_laddel phf: I had not seen this, thanks. [19:39]
gabriel_laddel Though I wish everyone would *stop it* with making new CLIM, CLIMACS etc. and just make what we have work. [19:39]
* gabriel_laddel mumbles "forwards compatibility!" [19:41]
phf yeah yeah, but it's cockroaches all the way down. anyone sane who's attempted ends up like asciilifeform, rejecting von neumann architecture, and ultimately giving up [19:44]
gabriel_laddel I was going to put this off until later - but whatever. [19:44]
gabriel_laddel Look, there is no reason we can't take SBCL and incrementally modify it to work on a loper device [19:45]
gabriel_laddel People keep bitching about "all the things wrong with common lisp" while completely ignoring that you can meaningfully upgrade the language without throwing away all the work that has been done over the years. [19:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63638 @ 0.00051164 = 32.5597 BTC [+] {2} [19:46]
gabriel_laddel For example, say that you find the existence of both elt & nth to be stupid. write a (meta)program that walks an arbitrary CL program and fixes all elt's to nths. Let everyone know that it's deprecated, and that they can run this program on their code to update it to CL 1.2 or whatever. [19:47]
gabriel_laddel the compiler can then be modified to take this into account. [19:47]
gabriel_laddel I, for example, dislike having both defstruct and defclass in the language. [19:48]
gabriel_laddel Am currently waiting for an intern to fix this. [19:48]
gabriel_laddel Over the course of a few years we can work the language down to something much smaller without at any point making it unsuitable for production work. [19:48]
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gabriel_laddel Even with a Loper device you'll still have programs composed of the same primitives: draw-circle*, draw-sphere* [19:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 108852 @ 0.00002602 = 2.8323 BTC [-] {14} [19:50]
gabriel_laddel Work CL down to the core language and then when you get something new to play with you can build up that core and run (some) 'CL' programs on it. [19:50]
gabriel_laddel These metaprograms are great tasks for interns, especially those who don't "get lisp" yet. [19:51]
phf i'm not one of those people you're arguing against, i like cl standard just fine. i did paid common lisp consulting on and off for the past 10 years. [19:51]
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gabriel_laddel phf: o cool [19:52]
gabriel_laddel phf: also, I think the loper device will end up being designed on top of CLIM. [19:52]
gabriel_laddel there are not really any other options [19:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00051604 = 14.4749 BTC [+] [19:53]
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gabriel_laddel !up ascii_modem [19:53]
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ascii_modem http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197840 << that'd be 'scheme' [19:54]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 22:43:42; gabriel_laddel: For example, say that you find the existence of both elt & nth to be stupid. write a (meta)program that walks an arbitrary CL program and fixes all elt's to nths. Let everyone know that it's deprecated, and that they can run this program on their code to update it to CL 1.2 or whatever. [19:54]
gabriel_laddel ascii_modem: there is a scheme which didn't throw away the CL compiler and start from scratch? [19:54]
ascii_modem which compiler [19:55]
gabriel_laddel If *any* of them did this, for any compiler, I'd be rather surprised. [19:55]
ascii_modem sbcl, ccl, allegro, lispworks - each had own [19:55]
ascii_modem basic boojum with ~all~ lisps on x86 - is same [19:56]
gabriel_laddel sbcl, ccl, allegro, lispworks - each had own << You can still take portable CL programs and run the upgrade program on them without forcing compiler changes. [19:56]
ascii_modem the retarded os, in turn forced into being by retarded hw [19:57]
gabriel_laddel I know, I know. [19:57]
phf i think "minimal set of common lisp primitives" is a common theme on #lisp, not surprisingly with different answers every time [19:58]
gabriel_laddel phf: no one has done so much as even drafting a document specifying what is to be removed. [19:58]
ascii_modem you won't appreciate the full weight of this until you try to do something with, e.g., graphics, or signal process [19:58]
gabriel_laddel I read the relevent cliki page. [19:58]
* gabriel_laddel has a document collecting these links, ideas [19:59]
gabriel_laddel ascii_modem: like what with graphics? [19:59]
gabriel_laddel ascii_modem: I am currently using CLIM, opengl [19:59]
ascii_modem rearranging 'elt' and 'nth' ~~ 'deck chairs on titanic' [19:59]
gabriel_laddel heh [20:00]
gabriel_laddel defstruct and defclass? [20:00]
ascii_modem fuck opengl. i want peter henderson's sexpr graphics [20:00]
ascii_modem fuck wrapping abstractions around gpu ops [20:00]
ascii_modem fuck 2 machines showing 2 different bitmaps from same graphics op [20:01]
ascii_modem pc - retarded. [20:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.00052345 = 14.5257 BTC [+] [20:03]
ascii_modem http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197814 << cl on pc only really became tolerably livable with in late '90s [20:04]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 22:11:04; gabriel_laddel: should have just used CL [20:04]
phf gabriel_laddel: that's because "removing" is not a particularly worthwhile activity in this case [20:05]
gabriel_laddel phf: then wtf is everyone discussing on #lisp? [20:06]
phf gabriel_laddel: intellectual exercise :) [20:06]
ascii_modem all of these turd polishings are 20+ years of wank by now, [20:07]
phf in practical terms, common lisp quirks are direct result of underlying machine level architecture [20:07]
gabriel_laddel I suppose masturbation counts as exercise. [20:07]
ascii_modem and distract from the fact that the ~machine~ is terminally retarded [20:07]
gabriel_laddel ascii_modem: dija read the part where I specified the reason for this is to impress a prince? [20:08]
ascii_modem if i were prince - i'd spit [20:08]
phf at some point i assume it wasn't retarded, more like "what can i do with these resistors and a soldering iron", became retarded later [20:08]
phf because technology change, but thinking basically remained the same [20:09]
gabriel_laddel ascii_modem: notice that you're not a prince. [20:09]
ascii_modem notice - princes - they spit [20:10]
ascii_modem and i know why. [20:10]
ascii_modem go ask'em [20:10]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: explain please. [20:10]
gabriel_laddel trinque: yeah, so fyi there is no obvious way to add the docstring to eldoc [20:11]
gabriel_laddel trinque: takes too much work. I give up. [20:11]
ascii_modem bbl. [20:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15098 @ 0.00050439 = 7.6153 BTC [+] [21:00]
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gabriel_laddel To those reading along, how do I know http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-07-2015#1197799 ? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-05-2015#1144266 [21:06]
assbot Logged on 11-07-2015 22:07:49; gabriel_laddel: MP is on the verge of understanding. [21:06]
assbot Logged on 23-05-2015 07:11:21; mircea_popescu: seems the sort of meta-prograsmming task for which lisp was invented anyway. keep your code as a s-expr of the code you deliver. [21:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116011 @ 0.00052225 = 60.5867 BTC [+] {3} [21:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43175 @ 0.00053951 = 23.2933 BTC [+] {2} [21:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27225 @ 0.00054233 = 14.7649 BTC [+] {2} [21:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46937 @ 0.00053472 = 25.0982 BTC [-] [21:32]
cazalla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbHKzpzlgkc [21:33]
assbot top breech - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1eReg9D ) [21:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18927 @ 0.00053472 = 10.1206 BTC [-] [21:34]
shinohai http://i.4cdn.org/b/1436644980131s.jpg [21:36]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1eReDBf ) [21:36]
gabriel_laddel shinohai: http://imgur.com/CQH4ojL [21:40]
assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRfe5Y ) [21:40]
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shinohai lolz [22:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93550 @ 0.00051902 = 48.5543 BTC [-] [22:06]
trinque gabriel_laddel | trinque: yeah, so fyi there is no obvious way to add the docstring to eldoc << thanks for the crack at it [22:20]
trinque might be easier for me to forget about eldoc and try writing what I actually want from scratch [22:21]
* assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel [22:22]
gabriel_laddel trinque: well, you could do that, but it will interact with eldoc and slime-autodoc [22:23]
gabriel_laddel which are on idle timers [22:23]
trinque yes that might be the right way; I'm not in a position where I feel I know the best way yet. [22:23]
gabriel_laddel lol, idle timers are the ONLY way to do that [22:23]
trinque I want two things, at any point I want to know what I have available to me in the context I'm in [22:24]
trinque I want to have that broken apart into sensible categories of action, a tree structure of sorts from the current point outward to wherever else I might go [22:24]
gabriel_laddel :/ I know. Climacs is the inevitable conclusion. Doing the elisp dance around the cl package system just isn't fun. [22:25]
gabriel_laddel and eldoc is integrated into elisp [22:25]
trinque yeah you already know two [22:25]
gabriel_laddel polluting it. [22:25]
trinque gimme the same thing for *THIS* I've chosen [22:25]
trinque the docs for it, and a way to traverse to related things I might want to use instead [22:26]
gabriel_laddel Generic functions for this class, sorted by if they're implemented yet, things that have been passed this type in the past... [22:26]
trinque certainly [22:26]
trinque what does the whole goddamn world look like from this point [22:26]
trinque I am a very visual/spatial thinker [22:27]
trinque and only grow proficient in a domain when I have a sort of physical model of the space [22:27]
gabriel_laddel how the fuck did you ever get good at python [22:28]
gabriel_laddel related: I want to be able to inspect an object, mark it, then jump around through a bunch of other objects and hit a key to get a sexpr representing the accessor corresponding to my traversal. [22:28]
trinque gabriel_laddel | how the fuck did you ever get good at python << by forcing myself to work through it [22:29]
trinque eventually acquiring the mental picture of python's insane world [22:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15387 @ 0.00053591 = 8.246 BTC [+] [22:29]
trinque and tbh I write python in a functional style over mostly primitive types [22:30]
trinque I am a simpleton. [22:30]
trinque gabriel_laddel: that example of taking action *once* and being able to turn that sort of "recorded" action into an abstraction, exactly fucking right [22:31]
gabriel_laddel Even if the indicies are hardcoded... still useful. [22:32]
trinque our merry band of madmen got things such as these done once upon a time by representing the ASTs of SQL queries as table structures in postresql [22:32]
gabriel_laddel madmen indeed [22:32]
trinque that was where I accidentally bumped into the power of a homoiconic language [22:33]
trinque because we... lol... forced SQL to behave like one [22:33]
gabriel_laddel fyi: http://lisptips.com/post/20871695085/printing-package-qualified-symbols [22:33]
assbot Printing package-qualified symbols ... ( http://bit.ly/1HvFRUE ) [22:33]
trinque model ebnf as tables -> describe some particular grammar in those tables -> derive schema for statements in that grammar -> derive parser for farting ASTs into tables -> so on so on [22:34]
trinque it's just everything is data, including that which is used to model and manipulate the data [22:34]
trinque lisp did it far far better [22:34]
trinque incidentally we had the ebnf one bootstrapped such that it contained the description of its own structure [22:35]
trinque and could revise it from there [22:35]
trinque transactionally even [22:35]
trinque and that was super powerful as well, and I don't know how to get that on the CL side [22:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46471 @ 0.00053591 = 24.9043 BTC [+] [22:36]
gabriel_laddel what, transactions? [22:37]
gabriel_laddel why would you want to revise sexprs? [22:37]
trinque yeah, I want to go insane in an arbitrary direction changing some data structure, then decide nope arbitrarily later [22:37]
trinque or even better, have it fail some constraint and do so [22:37]
trinque or in other words... "database" [22:38]
gabriel_laddel yeah, I wish you the best of luck on that quest. It is straightforwards, but ugh. [22:38]
trinque I would have to describe better how I've leaned on there being a declared schema which is also data [22:38]
gabriel_laddel defclass, plists, alists [22:39]
trinque for example an inner join between the schema-describing-tables and the rows describing the grammar was how I wrote a generic to-string for any language in the ebnf tables [22:39]
gabriel_laddel fucking ayy man [22:41]
gabriel_laddel I hope you don't take offense to this but... [22:41]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: this is what I mean by "we need people to carry the water" [22:42]
gabriel_laddel seriously, redirecting a trinque at CL would make the development 100x better. [22:42]
gabriel_laddel *the development experience [22:42]
trinque if you mean somebody should've kicked my ass ten years ago for not writing CL, I agree. [22:42]
gabriel_laddel I mean that someone should have paid for you to write CL, preferable packaging it up as an unchanging distro supporting only a subset of hardware. [22:43]
trinque so, here's what I do in real life, right? [22:43]
trinque I model people's businesses using a database [22:44]
trinque so to the extent that you put a better tool in my hands to do that, I'll only be appreciative. [22:44]
trinque s/appreciative/paying you/ [22:44]
trinque I'm not personally out to revolutionize computing by focusing all my time on that as such [22:44]
trinque make sense? [22:44]
gabriel_laddel Yep. This is what I'm trying to get ascii to see. [22:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127628 @ 0.00051856 = 66.1828 BTC [-] {2} [22:49]
trinque model a business, describe business rules which constrain the changes possible to the model, present the state of the model in various useful ways, attach behavior to changes permitted by the model [22:50]
trinque this is every goddamn application I've ever sold [22:50]
trinque and a tool which allows me to rapidly do that will drastically increase the rate of said selling [22:51]
trinque and you could stack corpses to the sky replacing products which were specific incarnations of such a database, rather than attacking the general problem described above. [22:51]
trinque and then when you've got fat stacks from all the killing you've been doing, hell, build some hardware why don't you? [22:51]
trinque this I think hits the problem of "the sale wants their particular problem solved head on" vs "to be a successful software business I must generalize" squarely [22:53]
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gabriel_laddel !s dawg just make the cardano already so we can sell em [22:59]
gabriel_laddel kakobrekla: search is down? [23:00]
assbot : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dawg+just+make+the+cardano+already+so+we+can+sell+em [23:00]
phf were you guys trying to put symbol documentation into slime-autodoc results? that seems pretty easy, just patch whatever swank:autodoc returns. though seems like it would be distracting since multiline docs will keep resizing modeline every time your point is at a new function [23:01]
phf there's also C-c C-d d which brings up a window with symbol's description [23:03]
gabriel_laddel phf: C-c C-d d << M-x slime-describe-symbol [23:05]
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trinque bbl [23:06]
phf gabriel_laddel: i'm not sure what you're trying to say [23:07]
gabriel_laddel phf: Nothing interesting. Twas already covered in the logs... [23:08]
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phf gabriel_laddel: oh you're right, i'm behind on my readin' [23:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133450 @ 0.00053473 = 71.3597 BTC [+] [23:19]
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gabriel_laddel !up trixbutt [23:22]
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gabriel_laddel !up cosmo [23:22]
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gernika I attended a lisp meetup in SV today at which someone presented their altcoin which happened to be written in CL. This altcoin exists apparently because bitcoin too "too slow." [23:34]
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gabriel_laddel gernika: odd. [23:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107415 @ 0.00054072 = 58.0814 BTC [+] {2} [23:37]
gabriel_laddel gernika: you live in the valley? [23:37]
gernika Close to there. I'm more on the peninsula. [23:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17585 @ 0.00054623 = 9.6055 BTC [+] [23:38]
phf trinque, gabriel_laddel http://paste.lisp.org/display/151403 [23:40]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NXq6L4 ) [23:40]
gabriel_laddel !rate phf 2 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-07-2015#1198014 [23:48]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9dd9f91f07d236ef [23:48]
assbot Logged on 12-07-2015 02:36:59; phf: trinque, gabriel_laddel http://paste.lisp.org/display/151403 [23:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81275 @ 0.0005413 = 43.9942 BTC [-] [23:49]
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