Forum logs for 11 Apr 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform as pictured in [00:02]
assbot A piece of cake on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [00:02]
asciilifeform ;;isitup [00:02]
gribble Error: "isitup" is not a valid command. [00:02]
asciilifeform ;;isup [00:02]
decimation asciilifeform: european welfare statism is fucktarded, but they do have a degree of escape from this treadmill [00:02]
gribble is down [00:02]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ^ [00:02]
asciilifeform decimation: escape ? [00:03]
decimation they can't be easily fired, generally treated with a degree of 'tenure' [00:03]
decimation 'they' being industrial positions in germany, etc [00:04]
asciilifeform escape 'from frying pan to fire,' this. [00:04]
decimation asciilifeform: they have an 'apprenticeship' system in germany too [00:07]
asciilifeform decimation: my understanding is that germany, like japan, had a few living scraps of functional tradition survive the 20th c. woodchipper [00:08]
asciilifeform unlike the english world, for example [00:08]
asciilifeform one of the reason the english nailed them with such vengeance, trashing the entire planet in the process [00:08]
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asciilifeform it was the envy of the crippled ephialtes, who knows exactly what he is, for the healthy spartans. [00:09]
asciilifeform specifically as pictured in the film, even. [00:09]
asciilifeform !s ephialtes [00:09]
assbot 11 results for 'ephialtes' : [00:09]
decimation asciilifeform: it even manifested physically [00:11]
assbot Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:04; decimation: the 'forced exercise' idea reminds me of a passage in the 'rise and fall of the third reich': "The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along [00:11]
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decimation [00:11]
assbot Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:05; decimation: the contrast between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean-cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth – tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars." [00:11]
asciilifeform very much this. [00:11]
asciilifeform the english got a massive head start by having been the inventors of the turn-people-into-industrial-feedstock thing. [00:12]
decimation imagine being one of these young germans at dunkirk, watching the sad sacks from britianna derp around [00:12]
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asciilifeform notably, this -required- widespread misery of a kind superficially unrelated to industry, to make industry practical [00:13]
asciilifeform << see also. [00:13]
assbot Logged on 24-11-2014 23:13:14; asciilifeform: ultimately, being a builder of industry at the 1917 (or even today's) tech level, fundamentally sucks. as in, the same way being in prison sucks. so stalin et. al. tried experiment: what if being a peasant sucked -more- ? and - it worked. [00:13]
asciilifeform i will not re-tell the 'vagrancy laws' thing here, it is amply covered in the literature. [00:14]
decimation as in 'if the peasants don't want to work in the factory - starve them until they do?' [00:14]
asciilifeform but short version is that to have 'volunteers' for english industry, they turned their countryside into the closest thing possible at their tech level to an open air gulag [00:14]
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decimation 'poor house' workshops? [00:15]
asciilifeform see also [00:15]
assbot Logged on 12-03-2015 01:35:08; mircea_popescu: btw, anyone know how cockney got to be called that ? [00:15]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform let's again put it in terms of sex. given the choice does it seem a better strategy to keep long term warm intimate relations with a long list of sluts, or does it seem more workable to just keep the yellow pages close and hope the massage salon person understands what you mean ? [00:22]
asciilifeform depends on what you have to work with, no ? [00:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah i know, i'll be suing a dc, moving the thing etc. [00:23]
mircea_popescu what do you mean "have to work with" ? [00:24]
decimation mircea_popescu: is this related to the dcma thing? [00:24]
mircea_popescu yup [00:24]
mircea_popescu the us legal system has managed to put anyone trying to provide services into this position of "fucked either way". [00:25]
mircea_popescu not that i care, i'll be making money on this deal, but from a systemic perspective it sucks. [00:25]
decimation usg enjoys forcing everyone to be an agent [00:25]
asciilifeform what do you mean "have to work with" ? << some folks can afford a palace and a stable of pets to cultivate therein; others - yellow pages, when they get 'bonus' salary. on holidays. [00:25]
asciilifeform this is like asking which is better to get, a 'boeing' or a 'trabant.' [00:26]
mircea_popescu decimation sadly usg is not directly involved. this is more "let's make vague laws to satisfy an abstruse expectation of good". the only result is, whenever contrary interests meet, the provider is caught in the middle. [00:26]
mircea_popescu but hey, not my country not my problem. [00:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yet women live on average on a dollar a day. [00:28]
asciilifeform where? the congo ? [00:28]
mircea_popescu average means average. [00:29]
mircea_popescu 3.8bn of them [00:29]
asciilifeform let's calculate the average cock count then. [00:29]
asciilifeform while at it [00:29]
decimation 'trabant' can transport you 1,000 miles, kind of [00:29]
asciilifeform wait till you think, what legs can do [00:29]
mircea_popescu cock count ? [00:29]
asciilifeform aha. average income, average number of cocks, arms, legs... [00:30]
asciilifeform on a body [00:30]
asciilifeform but mircea_popescu has a point here, in that a pet does not -cost- very much per se [00:31]
asciilifeform but you still -need to be powerful- to keep a harem. in that you need the 'extra electron shells' to attract it with. [00:32]
asciilifeform (is PeterL around? i bet he'd appreciate this image) [00:33]
mircea_popescu competent women do not actually cost money. [00:34]
* asciilifeform readily believes this [00:34]
mircea_popescu this isn't strictly chillum's "she helps with the rent". recall convo re 40k ? [00:34]
asciilifeform and they don't 'cost' power, but you need it [00:34]
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mircea_popescu myeah. [00:34]
* asciilifeform remembers -exactly- which tread [00:35]
asciilifeform *thread [00:35]
asciilifeform [00:35]
assbot Logged on 21-02-2015 01:19:34; mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash" [00:35]
mircea_popescu myeah. [00:35]
mircea_popescu and it's unclear they actually need anything. slim is the controlling example. chick empowered bogart. [00:36]
Chillum competent women make money [00:36]
Chillum and support you in crazy ideas [00:36]
mircea_popescu in strict contrast to the woman he had before, that bogged him down. [00:36]
asciilifeform anyway, i'll concern myself with this detail soon after i decide whether to use xenon or argon in the maneuvering ion engines for my mars lander. [00:36]
mircea_popescu Chillum exactly. [00:36]
Chillum I admit though, I went through a lot of shit women before I found a good one [00:36]
Chillum they are fucking rare [00:36]
mircea_popescu moreover, it's relevant support. the support of people you're not intimate with is worth about as much as the word of people not in the wot. [00:37]
Chillum I did not even consider getting married till I met someone who would not try to control me but rather support my bond villain like ambitions [00:37]
mircea_popescu wiki dude with bond villain ambitions ? [00:37]
asciilifeform and support in what sense? [00:37]
mircea_popescu impossibru. [00:37]
Chillum lulz [00:38]
Chillum it is true [00:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform very simply like so : [00:38]
asciilifeform in the 'someone gives a fuck if you come back from the front' sense ? [00:38]
mircea_popescu "hey, feel like going to prison tonight ?" "sure." [00:38]
mircea_popescu some people have to explain to the wife why they're in jail. [00:38]
asciilifeform 'friend helps you move furniture. true friend helps you move body.' -- traditional american proverb [00:38]
Chillum I am a wiki dude because I have bond villian like ambitions. One needs to control information, being a wikipedia admin is a good start [00:38]
mircea_popescu some other people have to see which common mistress is awake to bail the couple out. [00:38]
mircea_popescu Chillum if that thing's information i'm a sort of misunderstood pope. [00:39]
decimation Chillum: is there anyone 'working' on wikipedia who doesn't want to 'control information'? [00:39]
asciilifeform Chillum: may as well take over a psych ward to get at the valuable napoleons therein [00:39]
asciilifeform for geopolitical ambitions. [00:39]
mircea_popescu apt. [00:39]
Chillum lulz [00:39]
Chillum triple response [00:39]
Chillum Mr. Pope, information is always manipulated [00:40]
mircea_popescu not every string is information. [00:40]
mircea_popescu not every roadkill's a live dog. [00:40]
asciilifeform 'information is a difference that makes a difference' -- also traditional [00:40]
Chillum tell me with a straight face that this article has no information: [00:40]
assbot Jupiter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [00:40]
decimation if the nazis won wwii, one wonders what the 'nazi wikipedia' would look like [00:40]
Chillum not everything is crap, about .003% is pretty good [00:40]
asciilifeform decimation: mr mold had a piece on this [00:41]
mircea_popescu Chillum you're gonna control information about jupiter ? [00:41]
decimation asciilifeform: aye [00:41]
Chillum mircea_popescu: If I must [00:41]
mats can't sleep, gremlins will eat me [00:41]
decimation Chillum: that's because nobody gives a fuck about jupiter [00:41]
asciilifeform decimation: he concluded - in my view, correctly - that a senile 3rd reich would look quite like today's senile 4th [00:41]
Chillum and any other planet that gets in the way of my plans!! [00:41]
mircea_popescu mats sounds promising, buy moar guns. [00:41]
mod6 happy birthday s.mpoe [00:41]
Chillum decimation: as an astronomy enthusiast I disagree most firmly [00:41]
Chillum Jupiter is very popular [00:41]
mircea_popescu o hey nice mod6 [00:41]
mircea_popescu Chillum i don't think that's the shade of caring he had in mind. [00:42]
decimation indeed not [00:42]
Chillum We admins have a saying over on the private wikipedia admin channel: Gurer vf ab pnony [00:42]
mircea_popescu decimation it would be all straight edges and very fucking stolid. [00:42]
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mircea_popescu i dunno how familiar you are with 1930s german art - but it's pretty damned bad. [00:43]
mircea_popescu actually ... it's pretty much incipient socialism realism. perhaps a little better. not much. [00:43]
decimation my most direct expsoure was the 'bauhouse' letters used to teach me reading [00:43]
mircea_popescu the soviets copied EVERYTHING. [00:43]
mircea_popescu bauhaus on the cheap = soviet prefab flats. from berlin to pakistan. [00:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: eh there was a good bit of 2-way [00:44]
mircea_popescu perhaps. in the sense the russians mounted it all on oxcarts. [00:44]
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decimation yeah I can see that. purified into 'brutalism' in post war communist europe [00:45]
mircea_popescu which i must say for dali, and he'd have said it if he thought of it first : fucking genius. [00:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: << example. massive mega-historical-derp re: whether nazi stole an iconic song, 'aviators' march', from su, or vice-versa [00:45]
assbot ... ( ) [00:45]
mircea_popescu Chillum intel says your 0.003% figure actually very likely accurate. [00:45]
asciilifeform actually i have a small experimental verification [00:46]
asciilifeform of this figure. [00:46]
Chillum lol I made that number up based on experience [00:46]
asciilifeform i happen to own this toy: [00:46]
assbot The Gizmo Report: WikiReader--simple, singular - CNET ... ( ) [00:46]
Chillum we have piles of crap, and then we have stuff we selected as core subjects to get attention [00:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform is there anything you didn't buy ? [00:46]
asciilifeform it has a copy of the ascii portion of wikipedia snapshot circa year of production [00:46]
Chillum the philosophy is get it first, make it good later. Though much never gets attention again [00:46]
mircea_popescu i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection. [00:46]
asciilifeform and a 'random' toggle [00:47]
asciilifeform about 0.003 % is the fraction of the time i get something worth reading. [00:47]
mircea_popescu Chillum the philosophy is that you can aggregate meaning out of contextless snippets, by using self-propelled monkeys. this is so much nonsense. [00:47]
Chillum but we use categories to deliminate the different quality articles. Our "good article" category is significantly larger than any print encyclopedia [00:47]
Chillum mircea_popescu: self propelled humans [00:47]
mircea_popescu also significantly not either usable or an encyclopedia. [00:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a man-portable encyclopaedia (and Forth interpreter!) that runs on two batteries for several years and does not need the net seemed like a good idea. [00:48]
mircea_popescu no dude. humans have better stuff to do. [00:48]
decimation there's a few ounces of wine in the turd-soup [00:48]
asciilifeform (in practice it is very physically arduous to use) [00:48]
mircea_popescu the wiki people are definitorily subhuman. [00:48]
asciilifeform i would pay 10x for a version sans the garbage [00:48]
Chillum and seriously an article at the final level of completion is pretty damn good by the standards of any encyclopedia [00:48]
asciilifeform but there is no such 'pedia' [00:48]
Chillum articles like Earth and Mass [00:48]
Chillum core subjects [00:48]
asciilifeform there is 'britannica' circa 1958 - the most complete edition - which i own [00:48]
Chillum once politics, or people get involved [00:49]
asciilifeform but it is not man-portable. [00:49]
mircea_popescu Chillum again, that an elephant which counts to three is pretty great as far as elephants go does not make this a mathematical discussion. [00:49]
Chillum it is a shitfest [00:49]
mircea_popescu wikipedia is not "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia", it is "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia that were not an encyclopedia but a wikipedia instead" [00:49]
Chillum again you make a point and I strain to understand what it has to do with the conversation [00:49]
mircea_popescu this is about as pointless as it sounds. [00:49]
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Chillum The article "Earth" is better than the same article in any other encyclopedia [00:50]
Chillum our finished articles are good [00:50]
Chillum our works in progess are shit and we know it [00:50]
mircea_popescu an encyclopedia, fundamentally, imposes a political hierarchy upon the world, and that of a known and verifiable pedigree. [00:50]
asciilifeform i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection. << lol, 'i wish to meet the female chingis khan and her sheep collection' [00:50]
Chillum that is what an encylopedia is [00:50]
mircea_popescu this is what an encyclopedia is. not a piling of "information", as the acultural imagine. [00:50]
mircea_popescu but a list of the correctness of a culture. [00:50]
mircea_popescu very. VERY. different. [00:50]
mircea_popescu which is why d'alembert's is d'alembert's, and why it turned europe upside down [00:51]
Chillum do you you object to how Wikipedia has made an encyclopedia or the concept of an encyclopedia itself? [00:51]
mircea_popescu whereas wikipedia whines about not having 5k to pay for servers, and nurtures inferiority complexes @ google and everyone else. [00:51]
Chillum they have plenty of money for servers [00:51]
mircea_popescu i object to the spurious pretense that wikipedia is anyuthing but myspace on white [00:51]
asciilifeform a list of the correctness of a culture << precisely. it is a -standards document- [00:51]
Chillum for years now [00:51]
asciilifeform like a dictionary. [00:51]
asciilifeform (a proper dictionary) [00:51]
Chillum well it is a serious acedemic project aimed at making the realm of copyrighted free and available to all [00:52]
Chillum it is all about making free content [00:52]
mircea_popescu Chillum last i saw the begging campaign, it was a very pointed "sucks we can't afford 1/100000000 of what google can" [00:52]
asciilifeform which is why 'democratic' encyclopaedia is approximately as valuable as 'democratic' dictionary [00:52]
Chillum If the free content isn't good enough, sour lemons for you [00:52]
mircea_popescu free content = meaningless drivel. [00:52]
mircea_popescu that's not escapable. [00:52]
Chillum the begging is super lame, they already have a huge stockpile of donations [00:52]
mircea_popescu bitcoin forum is dedicated to making "free bitcoin content" as well. [00:52]
mircea_popescu the problem is a lot more obvious there. [00:53]
mircea_popescu the reason is that... as decimation points out... nobody gives a shit about wikipedia [00:53]
Chillum isn't your bitcoin node free content? [00:53]
mircea_popescu not in any sense. [00:53]
mircea_popescu it ENFORCES. [00:53]
mircea_popescu a node is a political outpost. [00:53]
Chillum it is based off of a license that require derivitive works to follow the same license so I think it is [00:53]
mircea_popescu you can think whatever you wish. [00:53]
Chillum I do [00:53]
asciilifeform Chillum: it is free in the sense that bullets in a border guard's machinegun are 'free.' [00:53]
Chillum to do otherwise would be foolish [00:53]
asciilifeform yes - they are. free for the taking, if a little hot [00:54]
mircea_popescu exactly. free to shoot you with, sure. [00:54]
Chillum well it is on a public website for download and based off code with a free license that carries on to derivitive works, so what should I think? [00:54]
mircea_popescu that it's spelled derivative. [00:54]
mircea_popescu im turning into fucking vragnaroda over here. [00:55]
asciilifeform speaking of which... [00:55]
asciilifeform does anyone remember the 'igonvalue' [sic] debacle ? [00:55]
asciilifeform !s igonvalue [00:55]
assbot 0 results for 'igonvalue' : [00:55]
asciilifeform !s eigenvalue [00:55]
assbot 1 results for 'eigenvalue' : [00:55]
decimation lol igonvalue? [00:55]
mircea_popescu !s igon value [00:55]
assbot 0 results for 'igon value' : [00:55]
mircea_popescu hm. [00:55]
asciilifeform [00:55]
Chillum mircea_popescu: my spelling is lacking, but I assume you can make out my meaning [00:55]
assbot Urban Dictionary: Igon Value Problem ... ( ) [00:55]
mircea_popescu amusingly, these ignoramuses have branded the memory hole effect too ? [00:56]
Chillum I really cannot be bothered to fix every little red line under what I type [00:56]
mircea_popescu Chillum yes yes. wasn't a serious criticism that. [00:56]
Chillum okay [00:56]
Chillum not seriously annoyed either [00:56]
asciilifeform not hammering on Chillum here, but the memory was inescapable [00:56]
mircea_popescu we had a guy, long ago, that cared. it is to his memory that i dedicate that line. [00:56]
asciilifeform there once was/is an american hack writer named gladwell. was published in huge quantities and the drivel was stocked everywhere, for political reasons which i'm still only dimly aware of. [00:57]
asciilifeform he was attempting to abuse the very basic mathematical concept of 'eigenvalue', and referred to it, repeatedly, in print as 'igon value'. [00:58]
asciilifeform inadvertently revealing that, not only did he sleep in school, but did not even contemplate cracking open a book [00:58]
asciilifeform prior to disgorging his turdheaps [00:58]
asciilifeform then other hack writers made creative excuses for this stunt [00:59]
asciilifeform (instead of sending gladwell to take his rightful place behind the latrine) [00:59]
Chillum Did you know that gribble is a real person? Never sleeps, can do bitcoin sigs and PGP in his head. [01:00]
Chillum oh wait, just PGP [01:01]
Chillum oh crap I meant assbot [01:01]
Chillum ruined my joke [01:01]
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Chillum on a wiki I could fix that [01:01]
asciilifeform Chillum: reminds me of an article i read as a boy in some 'mothering/homekeeping' magazine my folks had, about 'should kid thank the elevator' [01:01]
Chillum that reminds me of the intelligent elevators in hitchhikers guide the galaxy, and how smug and annoying they were' [01:02]
asciilifeform (to clarify, i am not of such vintage as where elevator would have come equipped with a living 'driver') [01:02]
Chillum I lived in a shitty building for a while called "The Ritz", ironically [01:03]
Chillum they had an old elevator with driver [01:03]
Chillum last on in Canad they said [01:03]
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Chillum they eventually sold the elevator car and motor and used the cash to renovate the whole building, and get a modern elevator [01:03]
asciilifeform when i worked, many years ago, at 'nih' in bethesda, maryland - they experimented with reintroducing elevator-drivers. as i understood, it was merely an employment program for the Officially Sad [01:04]
Chillum well this one was not busy work, it needed a driver [01:04]
Chillum and you could drive it badly if you happen to get your hand on it [01:04]
asciilifeform yes, the kind that merely has an up/down toggle [01:04]
Chillum not very safe [01:04]
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Chillum on a lever, the more you moved it the faster it went [01:05]
asciilifeform (the mechanism which stops at particular floors was invented long after original 'otis') [01:05]
Chillum when it got close to the top or bottom and alarm would sound to tell you to stop [01:05]
Chillum and you better stop, because it won't for you [01:05]
Chillum people are spoiled by elevators that stop at the bottom all by themselves [01:05]
Chillum making them all soft [01:05]
asciilifeform l0l, looks like me www is under ddos [01:06]
asciilifeform so, [01:06]
assbot Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( ) [01:06]
asciilifeform let's hear it for d3m0cr4cy, where every packet, even from idiots, 'counts', aye ? [01:10]
asciilifeform i'll take one guess, that it relates to [01:11]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 00:04:38; asciilifeform: ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section. [01:11]
Chillum asciilifeform: tcp/ip layer or application layer? [01:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160700 @ 0.0002813 = 45.2049 BTC [+] [01:11]
Chillum application layer is my favorite [01:11]
asciilifeform Chillum: no idea at present [01:11]
Chillum different server fail to different things [01:11]
Chillum pause for 5 minutes between the header name and header value works for a lot [01:12]
asciilifeform not paying enough for this info to be readily available to the naked eye. [01:12]
Chillum then forget about the connection on your side and open another [01:12]
Chillum another trick is to send 1 byte every second to keep the connection open [01:12]
Chillum very hard to mitigate short of load balancing [01:12]
asciilifeform Chillum: we all read 'spam like a pro in 21 days' (TM) [01:12]
mircea_popescu malcom gladwell ? [01:12]
asciilifeform aha [01:13]
Chillum what does ddos have to do with spamming? I have not read that [01:13]
* Armand (4b17c8c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:13]
mircea_popescu !up Armand [01:13]
-assbot- You voiced Armand for 30 minutes. [01:13]
* assbot gives voice to Armand [01:13]
* Armand is now known as Guest64542 [01:13]
asciilifeform Chillum: mythical book, which i imagined, telling the 'secrets' of 'k00l d00dz' the world around. [01:13]
Guest64542 Mr. Popescu: Is your website offline? Or overloaded? [01:14]
decimation asciilifeform: lol why ddos you? [01:14]
Chillum there are tools, but the servers are patched for the tools [01:14]
Chillum it is about fiddling around with custom scripts [01:14]
decimation works for me [01:14]
asciilifeform decimation: why ddos anything [01:14]
Chillum there are so many ways to fuck with a web server that they can't get them all [01:14]
Chillum you just have to do something original [01:14]
decimation ;;isitdown [01:14]
gribble is up [01:14]
Chillum which is hard but not that hard [01:14]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 nah, inept dc caved over a fraudulent dmca notice. will be skinning them for it, next week. [01:15]
Chillum that is the difference between a script kiddie and someone who is actually doing stuff [01:15]
Guest64542 do you expect the site to be back up soon? [01:15]
mircea_popescu yeah prolly by tomorrow. [01:15]
Chillum the nice thing about application layer DDOS is that it does not require significant bandwidth and can work with high latency [01:16]
mircea_popescu and i guess ima hammer the shit out of fetlife now, anyway. [01:16]
Chillum which means you can do it through tor [01:16]
Chillum it is the smart subtle ddos that can run from a raspberry pi on a dail-up [01:16]
decimation Chillum: but who would give a fuck about your hammering? [01:16]
Chillum spammers [01:17]
Chillum shut down the website they are advertising [01:17]
asciilifeform Chillum: why use a proxy net that has canonical exit ip list for any sysadmin with half a brain to add to drop list ? [01:17]
Chillum half a brain is the key point [01:17]
decimation maybe they have an alternative position on jovian science [01:17]
Chillum they don't [01:17]
Chillum if they do have an alternative position on jovian science they will have to go through me to get it told! [01:18]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:18]
mircea_popescu "[W]hen a writer’s education on a topic consists in interviewing an expert, he is apt to offer generalizations that are banal, obtuse or flat wrong." << in romanian this is known as "a waiter at one of these places where university professors gather can actually soak up a lot, often enough to pass himself for one" [01:18]
mircea_popescu or something like that. [01:18]
Chillum (kidding, I try to be very neutral on wikipedia) [01:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this actually is a two-layered shit sandwich [01:18]
Guest64542 Mr. P: what's that all about with FetLife anyway? [01:19]
asciilifeform pinker was covering, making excuses for gladwell's lack of even the most elementary education or curiosity [01:19]
Chillum when writing a tertiary source like an encyclopedia one must rely on experts only, original research is forbidden. It is meant to document the information that already exists without adding opinion [01:19]
* mike_c has quit () [01:19]
Chillum original research is of course great, but out of the scope of an encyclopedia [01:19]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 derps ennumerated their db rather than hashing it. [01:19]
Chillum we get experts all the time and we have to tell them that they can only use what they know if they have sources [01:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i noticed. ridiculous. [01:20]
decimation moldbug would say that pinker would gladly suck the cock of a nyt writer so he can be published in the 'grey lady' [01:20]
mircea_popescu presenting rank ignorance as, rather than humiliatory, a sort of "problem". it's no problem. [01:20]
Guest64542 so you just scraped the data? I don't see what the big deal is [01:20]
mircea_popescu Chillum everything even remotely worth reading is out of the scope of a wikipedia. [01:20]
asciilifeform Guest19244: see also the case of weev. [01:21]
mircea_popescu also, every encyclopedia consists of original research of its editors [01:21]
mircea_popescu which is what the term means. [01:21]
Chillum First we stored the password and that was stupid, then we hashed it but people could build rainbow tables so we added salt, then things got faster. Now we harden by hashing many times [01:21]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 internet is large, and mostly inhabited by the clueless. [01:21]
Chillum mircea_popescu: it is nothing more than a starting point for understanding [01:21]
mircea_popescu it's a starting point for misunderstanding, which wouldn't be a big deal [01:21]
Chillum any serious academic knows an encyclopedia is not a reliable source and is just a tool for laymen to get a basic understanding of a subject [01:22]
mircea_popescu but it packages it with a very dangerous false sense of competence. [01:22]
Chillum if you think an encyclopedia is more you are sure to be disapointed [01:22]
mircea_popescu no, iut's a tool for laymen to bolt down their ignorance in such a way that they'll never ever become good, at anything. [01:22]
* asciilifeform goes to dig for the trilema summarizing mircea_popescu's conference-ii speech re: this, but remembers that his www is down [01:22]
mircea_popescu i happen to know what things are, having had the good fortune to exist before wikipedia did. [01:22]
Chillum tools are tools, people can use them right or bolt themselves to the floor [01:22]
Chillum not the tool's fault [01:22]
mircea_popescu this is not a tool. [01:22]
mircea_popescu a tool is something that does something useful. [01:23]
Chillum give a fool a hammer and a nail and they will stick their ear to the floor [01:23]
asciilifeform Chillum: know the difference between a tool and a boobytrap [01:23]
asciilifeform which is also a kind of tool [01:23]
mircea_popescu this is a rube goldberg cube. entertaining, for us. wasteful, for the random derp/. [01:23]
asciilifeform but not for the 'user' [01:23]
Chillum I know a boob using a tool wrong [01:23]
asciilifeform the correct way to 'use' an antipersonnel mine... [01:23]
asciilifeform is to bury it and walk away [01:23]
Chillum really if you don't know how much confidence to give a given data source then that is a failure to comprehend [01:23]
asciilifeform not sing, dance on it. [01:24]
decimation your www is up for me ascii [01:24]
Guest64542 Mr P: I don't understand why you are picking a fight with them [01:24]
mircea_popescu you seriously believe that if you split up the value wikipedia added to human society over the years, in "making experts laugh" and "everything else", the 2nd bit would be anything even remotely comparable to the 1st ? [01:24]
mircea_popescu im not sure it's even 1% [01:24]
Chillum Wikipedia says clearly it is not a reliable source and it never pretends to be [01:24]
asciilifeform decimation: up/down, variably [01:24]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 actually, they are picking a fight with me. i generally end fights. [01:24]
Chillum it is all we can do to keep the pages from just saying "U R GAY LOLOLOLO)(!" [01:24]
mircea_popescu i honestly believe ed is actually a better wiki than wikipedia. [01:25]
Chillum from chaos great things emerge [01:25]
mircea_popescu or was. is it still online ? [01:25]
Guest64542 OK. But how did the conflict get started? Why are you interested in their DB? [01:25]
Chillum ed? [01:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: e2 ? [01:25]
decimation Chillum: precisely, so how do 'you' spare the cycles to prevent the more insideous defacement? [01:25]
Chillum erectile dysfunction? [01:25]
decimation encyclopedia dramatica [01:25]
asciilifeform ah [01:25]
* assbot gives voice to menahem [01:25]
* asciilifeform prefers [01:25]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 i ended up making a profile at some point. read some "build from the ground up with security in mind" verbiage from the baku character, sounded exactly like the bitcoin scammer broken record. [01:26]
mircea_popescu then i saw the horror. [01:26]
mircea_popescu thing looks like it was coded by armandi character. [01:26]
Chillum decimation: I have a javascript snipet that shows me pages in the "attack page" category. Every so often someone makes a page describing what a fag some other person is and an editor markes it as an attack page [01:26]
mircea_popescu decimation has it [01:26]
Chillum I delete it and usually block the person who made it [01:26]
menahem sorry to interrupt, is trilema down for you ? [01:26]
Chillum unless they can provide a reliable source to back it up [01:26]
mircea_popescu menahem yes yes discussed above. come back tomorro! [01:26]
menahem lol kk thank you. :) [01:26]
mircea_popescu np np [01:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's [01:27]
asciilifeform !s lurkmore [01:27]
assbot 11 results for 'lurkmore' : [01:27]
asciilifeform ^ it [01:27]
asciilifeform [01:28]
assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 15:41:18; dignork: mircea_popescu: on a concept level lurkmore is a copy of encyclopedia dramatica, but they do much better job imho [01:28]
mircea_popescu oh russki thing. yea [01:28]
Guest64542 so is your objective to point out flaws in the website? or something else? what are you trying to accomplish? [01:28]
mircea_popescu im not trying to accomplish anything. hm... what exactly is your interest in this thing ? [01:29]
mircea_popescu !s Ittay Eyal [01:30]
assbot 0 results for 'Ittay Eyal' : [01:30]
mircea_popescu heh. [01:30]
Guest64542 I have a profile at FetLife, and I have seen a rather lively debate there about this. But I haven't formed an opinion yet. I thought it would be interesting to talk directly with you about instead of relying on a lot of chatter [01:30]
asciilifeform Guest19244: in the seek00r1ty business, there is a concept called 'full disclosure' [01:30]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 so you're entirely foreign to the bitcoin space, then ? [01:30]
mircea_popescu no idea who i am, what trilema is, anything ? [01:31]
asciilifeform which boils down to: imagine there is a derelict house occupied by alcoholic bomzhes. the city condemned it, but the occupants refuse to leave. [01:31]
asciilifeform they even persist in bringing friends over. [01:31]
asciilifeform so after umpteen many warnings, the king's men roust all the bums that can be rousted, and dynamite the place. [01:31]
Guest64542 I know what bitcoin is. I have not actually used it. Before logging into this IRC, I read a little bit about who you are. So I have some idea [01:32]
mircea_popescu aite. so basically, i saw something, said something. fetlife misjudged itself, and sent a spurious "trademark infringement" claim to the dc. [01:32]
mircea_popescu i pointed out to the dc that if it abuses dmca notice process in this way it'll end up liable, and linked them to caselaw. [01:33]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0l, not even copyrasty ?! [01:33]
mircea_popescu some dude claiming to be "from fetlife" made a proper dmca notification, which i counter-notified [01:33]
mircea_popescu waited ten days, reinstated the content, forgot all about it. [01:33]
mircea_popescu this was... i dunno, weeks ago. [01:33]
Guest64542 before your site went offline, I did have a chance to read the DMCA takedown notice and your response [01:33]
decimation i can see how the dc is in a tough spot [01:33]
mircea_popescu today the dc nulled that ip, which brings them into liability over the matter, as the complaint is clearly spurious, [01:33]
mircea_popescu and so ima sue them for all they got and move the blog. [01:34]
mircea_popescu bout it. [01:34]
mircea_popescu once it's back, im also going to dump the whole db, [01:34]
mircea_popescu as a warning for later muppets on the score of "fuck with people you don't know" [01:34]
mircea_popescu internet brigading is a great way to deal with nobodies, but you run the risk of stepping on the tail of someone who is actually powerful, on occasion, at which point the whole thing backfires. [01:34]
Guest64542 I'm not an expert on DMCA, but I do kind of get the idea that all you did was post links to the profiles, and I don't see how that would be a copyright violation [01:35]
mircea_popescu i think this roughly brings us to date. [01:35]
mircea_popescu wait until you read into the statutory damages for dmca fraud. [01:35]
* asciilifeform knows of no serious cases of such damages having been imposed, but - ianal! [01:36]
Chillum The study of security is interesting, but the study of insecurity is fascinating. [01:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform $100k. remember the bezzleword ? [01:36]
mircea_popescu this is a federal statute. [01:36]
asciilifeform yes but has anyone lost and paid it ? [01:36]
mircea_popescu well, dc kinda has trouble running away. [01:37]
asciilifeform or is dmca precisely what it appears to be - a bludgeon for riaa/mpaa to use, and anything else is incidental noise. [01:37]
mircea_popescu oh, i'm not suing some bankruipt derps in canada, who cares about them. [01:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform dmca is EXACTLY and specifically drawn so large players can squash annoyances, but also minor players trying to do the same get totally raped. [01:37]
asciilifeform 'large' in the buffett, usg-large sense [01:38]
mircea_popescu if you have any experience with contemporary us law, this should be a familiar pattern [01:38]
mircea_popescu quite. [01:38]
asciilifeform is my (admittedly surface) understanding [01:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i predict that the case will hinge on whether 'fetlife' is a tendril of usg in good standing [01:39]
mircea_popescu anyway, it's a sad state of affairs for actual providers. they're stuck in the middle. can't really pay good lawyers, can't really exactly judge when customer is going to turn around and bitchslap them with a ten ton hammer... [01:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't intend to pursue some dubious "start-up" in canada on the strength of the declarations of some otherwise proven liar / confused internet person. [01:40]
asciilifeform (it is probably not enough for tendril status, to merely be in the mythical 'guild of all sc4mz0rs') [01:40]
mircea_popescu there is such a thing as joint and several liability. let the dc sue them. [01:40]
asciilifeform i have yet to hear of a dc being nailed for yanking the machine of a victim of copyrasty [01:40]
Chillum severed? [01:41]
Guest64542 Mr. P: Forgive my ignorace, but who is DC? Are you referring to the provider that hosts your site? Or some sort of third-party abritraitor? And what do you mean by "tendril of USG"? [01:41]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 the datacenter, yes. [01:41]
decimation heh [01:41]
mircea_popescu and i didn't use that term. he did. [01:41]
decimation yeah asciilifeform, what do you mean "tendril of usg" [01:41]
mircea_popescu yeah asciilifeform ! [01:41]
decimation heh [01:41]
Guest64542 ok sorry I wasn't looking at the user ID [01:42]
asciilifeform decimation: what i meant was: a lawsuit in an american court is won or lost at the pleasure of usg. [01:42]
Chillum do irc client reveal what type they are like web browser's user agent? [01:42]
* Chillum should read the IRC protocol RFC [01:42]
decimation mircea_popescu: couldn't the dc simply claim that you were violating their tos? [01:42]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform [01:42]
mircea_popescu enjoy. [01:42]
asciilifeform as in the 'nuclear iran' case recently - can even be magicked away without explanation. [01:42]
assbot Using a DMCA takedown notice to assert a trademark claim may lead to section 512(f) liability - Lexology [01:42]
mircea_popescu Chillum depends how you set yours up, i guess. [01:42]
mircea_popescu some answer to ver ctcp messages. [01:42]
Guest64542 what does usg stand for? [01:43]
mircea_popescu united states government [01:43]
Chillum huh. One would think it is either part of the protocol or not [01:43]
Guest64542 ok [01:43]
mircea_popescu Chillum the irc is an old beast chills. [01:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'refused to dismiss counter-claim.' but how did the case end? [01:43]
* asciilifeform doesn't know [01:43]
* Chillum should REALLY read the IRC protocol RFC [01:43]
Chillum mircea_popescu: I know I was using it before the web [01:43]
mircea_popescu generally these end in settlements, to avoid the ever balooning costs. [01:43]
Chillum just never learned the protocol under the client [01:43]
* assbot removes voice from Guest64542 [01:44]
mircea_popescu !up Guest64542 [01:44]
-assbot- You voiced Guest64542 for 30 minutes. [01:44]
* assbot gives voice to Guest64542 [01:44]
Chillum mircea_popescu: "chills" is what they called me in high school [01:44]
Chillum I was very relaxed [01:44]
mircea_popescu cool. [01:44]
Chillum weed [01:44]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah I suspect that anyone who has standing to assert section 512(f) probably will get a settlement [01:45]
* Chillum is grooving the Thelonious Monk's - Monk's Dream with a puff of smoke [01:45]
mircea_popescu decimation the dc could claim absolutely anything they wish. the standard still is preponderence of evidence. [01:45]
* asciilifeform assumed 'chilam', the traditional smoking instrument [01:45]
Chillum yup [01:45]
Chillum that is right [01:45]
Chillum the high school nickname is a coincidence [01:45]
Guest64542 Mr. P: is it possible that scraping data is a violation of FetLife's TOU? [01:45]
Chillum used to go by HighInBC [01:45]
mircea_popescu the dmca does not provide for an avenue to enforce anything you wish. [01:45]
mircea_popescu misusing it in this manner is a misdemeanor, and more importantly, a path to civil liability. [01:46]
decimation mircea_popescu: true, but I suspect that the dc could 'find you violating' without asserting anything w.r.t. dcma claims [01:46]
mircea_popescu they already did. [01:46]
decimation but that would be something for a judge to sort out I suppose [01:46]
mircea_popescu exactly. [01:46]
Guest64542 ok I get that. DMCA is not the proper mechanism for enforcement [01:46]
mircea_popescu "uh... we just ... didn't wanna do it anymore your honor." "shut up. sit down. " [01:47]
Chillum DMCA make a lot of things illegal but does not provide an easy path to conviction [01:47]
mircea_popescu conviction ? [01:47]
Chillum a toothless old lady shrieking at people [01:47]
mircea_popescu im not about to put anyone in prison. this is about money Chillum . [01:47]
decimation Chillum: it's a civil claim [01:47]
Chillum oh [01:47]
Chillum then I am talking about the wrong part of DMCA [01:48]
decimation mircea_popescu is performing a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer [01:48]
mircea_popescu essentially. [01:48]
mircea_popescu what started as a service for folks too simple to understand why they do not wish to be /user/1004555 [01:48]
mircea_popescu turned into a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer. [01:48]
asciilifeform !b 4 [01:48]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [01:48]
Chillum is this like that guy who used a college network to download shitloads of public domain but held by private companies court records? [01:49]
mircea_popescu but seriously, they're total fucking idiots. i even had a lengthy comment explaining to the derp in charge how to salt and hash [01:49]
decimation the CrossFit thing is hilarious too. it's the latest fad amoung youth [01:49]
asciilifeform Chillum: yeah. they hanged him [01:49]
Chillum it is amazing how much information not encumbered by copyright is held for ransom by private companies [01:49]
asciilifeform danced the hempen jig, he did. [01:49]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:49]
mircea_popescu Chillum notrly, no. [01:49]
Chillum I am looking at you JSTORE! [01:49]
Chillum mircea_popescu: as usual the conversations here require context that takes time to learn [01:50]
mircea_popescu myeah. [01:50]
Chillum part of what makes this channel intersting [01:50]
Chillum at first I stayed for the spectacle, after that for the intrigue [01:51]
menahem also the reason why I stfu until I know backstories from trilema. [01:51]
Chillum like a movie by some twisted director that keeps you watching in abject confusion/horror [01:51]
mircea_popescu lol menahem [01:51]
menahem :) [01:52]
decimation crossfit is the 1920's 'strong man' circus act, reinvented for today's youth [01:52]
decimation which is why claims to originality are doubly amusing [01:53]
mircea_popescu but seriously, you're all tech savvy people. who the fuck claims to have, you know, "built the site with security in mind" then makes the db trivially iterable because couldn't be bothered to hash the anything ? would something like user/F2xWjk been so very hard ? [01:53]
mircea_popescu gotta absolutely have /10001 so the next one is /10002 ? [01:54]
mircea_popescu nuts, i tell you. [01:54]
Guest64542 Mr P: Sounds like your real dipute at this point is with the dc [01:54]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is a more or less plain case of 'i have the right to wear this rape dress' [01:54]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 as far as i'm concerned, there's a crowd of silly people somewhere on the web that tricked a dc into bankruptcy. yes. [01:54]
asciilifeform 'why -should- we have to be solid. the world should not contain pointy things' [01:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well... [01:54]
mircea_popescu i like a challenge as much as the next fellow, i guess. [01:55]
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* asciilifeform was kinda surprised, he admits, to learn that mircea_popescu even hosts in a part of the world which even pretends to honour dmca etc. [01:56]
mircea_popescu why not ? [01:57]
asciilifeform because annoying idiots ? [01:57]
mircea_popescu i also like free money as much as the next fellow [01:57]
asciilifeform exploding hard disks ? [01:57]
mircea_popescu uh... i'm not particularly annoyed ? [01:57]
mircea_popescu yeah well. [01:57]
mircea_popescu i still dunno that's related. [01:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, i guess this makes me the first of that evil species of barristish sticklers that you all love to hate that you ever met. [01:58]
* asciilifeform wonders how many readers purchased a spot welder after hearing of this [01:58]
asciilifeform (the drives, that is) [01:59]
Guest64542 Mr P: Thank you for sharing your perspective on this [01:59]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 you know about the log ? [01:59]
Guest64542 Mr P ummm I am not sure what you are talking about LOL [01:59]
mircea_popescu [02:00]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 04:54:00; mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ? [02:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we - or at least i - knew that you're fond of courtroom challenge. but i can't help but also remember the various folk who tried this in ussr. [02:00]
mircea_popescu ussr wasn't built on the bezzle tho. [02:00]
asciilifeform where - not everyone now remembers, but - believe or not, there were also courts and jurists. [02:00]
decimation re: the gray journal: vintage moldbug > "Of course, they can't do much. You can't submit to the gray journal. There is no formal review process. You simply have to know someone who knows someone who... and who is on the end of this chain? Five or ten very ordinary people, with no particular expertise in anything, perhaps a BA in some science or other. Who happen to have gotten themselves assigned, through whatever feat of [02:00]
decimation bureaucratic mastery, to the "science beat" at the Times." [02:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform remember the power of the "people's denouncing" in there ? that's the equivalent. [02:01]
Guest64542 ok I see that there is a record of our conversation [02:01]
asciilifeform aha [02:01]
mircea_popescu god fucking help you if i stand up in the "political meeting" and ask you about X. [02:01]
mircea_popescu Guest64542 since you use the web platform andso prolly don't have a local log. [02:01]
* Lycerion has quit (Quit: Leaving) [02:01]
decimation I thought that the 'political meeting' was for the party to tell people what to think, not vice versa [02:02]
mircea_popescu decimation you'd be surprised. [02:02]
* Lycerion (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:02]
asciilifeform decimation: enforcement of norms is always - in practice - 'peer to peer' [02:02]
asciilifeform nothing else even begins to scale. [02:02]
mircea_popescu decimation the problem with a "democracy", aka representative democracy aka people's soviet is that the victory is always to the fearless. [02:02]
mircea_popescu feudalism empowers he with most knights, the rest - he wight less concern. [02:03]
decimation I suppose the only 'norm' that moscow really cared about was 'nominal submission to moscow' [02:03]
mircea_popescu not exactly. more important in practice - the need to cut the grass. [02:03]
asciilifeform decimation: nah. that'd be, e.g., the khanate. [02:03]
mircea_popescu lest it gets too tall. [02:03]
asciilifeform ^ [02:03]
decimation ah I see [02:04]
mircea_popescu and so a position "of power" was a terrible curse no one wanted. [02:04]
asciilifeform chingis khan, yes, he only cares that you submit & pay tribute. [02:04]
mircea_popescu which is how the thing actually failed. [02:04]
decimation one sees exactly the same phenomenon in usg today [02:04]
mircea_popescu quite. [02:04]
asciilifeform modern mega-state - micromanages. [02:04]
asciilifeform aka 'playing civ-1' [02:04]
mircea_popescu they even use the same word - "responsibility" [02:04]
mircea_popescu soon the same old jokes from the 70s are going to begin to circulate once more. [02:04]
mircea_popescu "promotion = much more responsibility, not much more money" etc. [02:05]
asciilifeform 'nah, we're out of meat. fish is what they lack at the fish monger's.' [02:05]
mircea_popescu lol [02:05]
mircea_popescu you know that still has me chuckling ? [02:05]
decimation and 'responsibility' means 'yer ass is on the line now', not 'you can choose to do as you wish' [02:05]
mircea_popescu decimation it means, "try and leech as much as you can off the young and impressionable females before a determined and disinterested young male gores you." [02:06]
mircea_popescu rather sad state. of affairs. [02:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i had an eerily 'sovok' experience the other day. went to a shop that sold, among other items, wooden planks. needed one sawed to fit in car. waited for whole hour, while clerk after clerk inquired, where, where is the one and only man authorized to use saw (kept under lock and key) [02:06]
asciilifeform he was nowhere [02:06]
mircea_popescu drunk, no doubt, out of existential crisis. [02:07]
decimation ^ note that the hippies in the 60's were the 'young male', and now they are trying to 'maintain responsibility' [02:07]
decimation asciilifeform: was it a home depot? I've had exactly the same experience [02:07]
asciilifeform it was. [02:07]
mircea_popescu decimation this is an angle alf does not wish to see (deliberate engineer's blindness), but in fact compare the afore-mentioned weev with the unfortunate da prosecuting. is weev a lazy bum ? yes. did the poor da work butt off through law scool ? yes. still not paid debt ? yes. [02:08]
mircea_popescu conviction overturned. is da fucked ? yes. is weev feasting on his corpse ? yes. [02:08]
mircea_popescu pay a lot to gain very little vs pay nothing to gain whatever you take for yourself. hmm.... [02:08]
asciilifeform occasionally, ant kills elephant. [02:08]
mircea_popescu welll... let's hope you're patriotic. [02:08]
asciilifeform but does the smart money bet on ant ? [02:08]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the soviets ? ALWAYS. [02:08]
mircea_popescu elephant is not allowed to move. [02:08]
mircea_popescu ant wins every time it cares. [02:09]
mircea_popescu to* [02:09]
mircea_popescu the problems the social security system has are not limited to the social security system. they are endemic, and that because they are systematic. [02:09]
asciilifeform i take elephant's retort, 'i did not care to crush the ant', seriously -while elephant remains alive-. [02:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ask someone whom you know in the civil service what does an overturned conviction do. [02:10]
mircea_popescu or ask them what % they must maintain. [02:10]
mircea_popescu or whatever, ask about how the job sucks. [02:10]
* asciilifeform knows [02:10]
mircea_popescu so then... alive ? yeahok. [02:10]
asciilifeform even in the godforsaken patent office [02:10]
decimation I'm not sure said da really profits by keeping his job [02:10]
asciilifeform overturned patent - not so good. [02:10]
mircea_popescu decimation if i was sure, i'd recommend it to bright young things. [02:11]
mircea_popescu but i don't. [02:11]
mircea_popescu it's a rather precarious existence. [02:11]
decimation how does getting $60k salary with $200k in college debt 'make sense' [02:11]
mircea_popescu 60k salary as long as you know, 65k expended. [02:12]
asciilifeform how does 60k with 200k house debt make sense [02:12]
asciilifeform how does all debt peonage 'make sense.' [02:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform "but you own the house" [02:12]
asciilifeform you 'own the sheepskin' also. [02:12]
mircea_popescu same way you "own" the da office. [02:12]
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mircea_popescu see, medieval kings were a lot more honest. [02:12]
asciilifeform simony. [02:12]
mircea_popescu da actually did own his office. [02:12]
decimation 'but it's the people's office' [02:12]
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decimation well, moldbug would say that the improvement was that there was an actual human the da 'was responsible' to [02:13]
mircea_popescu never. [02:13]
mircea_popescu what king do you think ever talked to the baillifs ?! [02:13]
decimation not king, but his wot [02:13]
mircea_popescu they didn't even speak a mutually comprehensible idiom. [02:13]
mircea_popescu heh. [02:13]
decimation lord/duke/baron whoever knows the score, king trusts him to keep a handle on things [02:14]
* asciilifeform tries to recall mircea_popescu's post re: how modern notion of 'chain of command' applied to medieval structures is simplistic; remembers that www is down [02:14]
menahem :( [02:14]
mircea_popescu incredible how useful trilema actually is huh. [02:14]
mircea_popescu sorry bout that. [02:14]
menahem big tyme [02:15]
menahem no apologies needed. site is pure gold. [02:15]
decimation well, my understanding is that in early english monarchy that the king was more of a 'first amoung equals' rather than 'strict commander' [02:15]
mircea_popescu pre normans, this ? [02:15]
decimation yeah [02:15]
mircea_popescu it's all poppycock. they didn't even keep records. [02:16]
mircea_popescu the later imperially-ambitious english retconned a bunch of shit into their record [02:16]
mircea_popescu so victoria isn't inferior to wilhelm. [02:16]
decimation heh they had a quilt somewhere [02:16]
mircea_popescu (british-german rivalry goes back a long time. as long as there was a germany, really.) [02:16]
* menahem wonders if we could get a quick lesson on modern chains of command compared to medieval structures ? [02:18]
mircea_popescu "In fact if an attacker waits until he sees another block on the network, the attacker can be sure that a majority of hashpower is now working on successors to that already published block, and not the one the attacker has kept hidden. The result is not a toss-up, but a distinct advantage to the honest nodes who have published their blocks already. " [02:18]
mircea_popescu this is a rather valid point. [02:18]
mircea_popescu that "instantly" is rather iffy. [02:19]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell funkstein_ not bad. [02:20]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:20]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not mystery [02:23]
* asciilifeform head-desks over the kind of things which might constitute 'revelation' to folks who used bitcoin without looking into how it worked [02:23]
decimation this goes to the thread re: how to distinguish 'trusted nodes' [02:23]
decimation it strikes me that it would be desirable to operate a node under a 'wot signature' [02:23]
asciilifeform decimation: once you are even speaking of 'trusted nodes' something went horribly wrong [02:24]
asciilifeform the original conversation, iirc, was about usg sibyls [02:24]
asciilifeform decimation: operate a node under a 'wot signature' << ultimately ip-over-gossip yes [02:25]
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mircea_popescu alf has it. the notion of "good node" is akin to the notion of "clean bitcoin" [02:31]
* asciilifeform sometimes wonders what hanbot does these days instead of working over the old tardphorum with a plasma gun as in the old days. [02:31]
mircea_popescu if you think in these terms you're either in an alt-universe where bitcoin can not exist, or you have woefully misunderstood the present one. [02:31]
asciilifeform 'clean electricity' [02:32]
mircea_popescu well, that exists. [02:32]
mircea_popescu POSITIVE electricity tho... [02:32]
* asciilifeform pictures flowing positrons [02:32]
mircea_popescu nono, not in that sense. [02:32]
decimation but the electric company has no way to much delay the flow of electrons to your house [02:32]
mircea_popescu SQUARE ELECTRON-CITY [02:33]
asciilifeform decimation: seekreet d4rk kn0wl3dg3: electrons don't move all that much. [02:33]
mircea_popescu "perpetually even coordinate electron-icity" [02:33]
decimation asciilifeform: aye [02:33]
asciilifeform but this is like, 1870s state of art [02:34]
asciilifeform we're not there yet. [02:34]
mircea_popescu ru pronz ? [02:42]
assbot She was a dumb bitch who just wanted to make her... | Teen Wankbait ... ( ) [02:42]
Chillum mircea_popescu: I found this: the sleep mode power consumption is 78 microamps and it can wake up and transmit packets in < 2ms [02:50]
assbot Low Power ESP8266 – Sleeping at 78 micro Amps | ... ( ) [02:50]
Chillum if you designed your application right it could sleep the vast majority of the time [02:51]
Chillum with wake-up times that fast it can sleep over 99% of the time and scan every few seconds [02:51]
Chillum The gps chip I have can operate itself at 50ma and communicate on demand to the ESP8266 [02:52]
Chillum 2 AA at that level of draw will last near a week [02:53]
Chillum both use 3.3v [02:53]
Chillum aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body [02:53]
Chillum s/naken/naked/ [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00028083 = 36.5921 BTC [-] {2} [02:55]
menahem that is the last thing i wanna picture. going back to the link mircea posted.. [02:55]
Chillum I look grey but I am not! [02:55]
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Chillum it is ashes! [02:55]
Chillum FYI I am always naked when on IRC [02:56]
menahem lol wtf. [02:56]
mats ;;gettrust Chillum [02:57]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask Chillum!~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum. Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Thu Feb 26 23:32:23 2015 [02:57]
Chillum you wanna do business mats? [02:57]
Chillum you got any gold? [02:58]
mats im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up [02:58]
Chillum okay well try talking to me first [02:58]
mats we just did. [02:58]
Chillum Okay buddy [02:58]
* Chillum (~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Leaving") [02:58]
mircea_popescu chillum it is an impressive little thing. [02:59]
mircea_popescu aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body << proof wikipedia is a nudist colony. [03:00]
mats have a nice day [03:01]
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mircea_popescu anyways. tomorrow! [03:01]
menahem likewise, ciao! [03:02]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [16:26]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [16:26]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [16:26]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [16:26]
ben_vulpes seems like a waste of btc, but w/e [16:26]
ben_vulpes no, actually no. [16:26]
trinque I'm saying all as one bundle [16:26]
ben_vulpes no no no [16:26]
trinque publish them like they're new docs, and put an additional doc in there saying "hey here are the original txns for these" [16:26]
ben_vulpes those deeds were published in certain blocks [16:27]
trinque ben_vulpes: what what what [16:27]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [16:27]
ben_vulpes the block in which a deed was published is actually important [16:27]
trinque I am aware of that [16:27]
mircea_popescu yeah, they were published in certain blocks, you/re not re-deeding them [16:27]
ben_vulpes more rows at the bottom of the table, with block, addr and bundle. [16:27]
trinque I'll just add a "from" address column, which is always the same for new bundles, but will be the old address for these [16:28]
ben_vulpes did the encoding of deed bundle -> addr hash change between your and punkman's versions of the thing? [16:28]
trinque shouldn't have [16:28]
mircea_popescu i don't get why you'd do anythin other than a db import [16:28]
ben_vulpes why is the "from" address necessary? [16:28]
trinque ben_vulpes: strictly speaking it's not, except to answer the question "were these supposed to come from a different address?" [16:32]
mircea_popescu o.O [16:33]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. [16:33]
mircea_popescu uhh.. [16:34]
mircea_popescu the address they COME FROM dun matter, just the address they GO TO [16:34]
mircea_popescu and that is constructed procedurally, for a reason [16:34]
mircea_popescu remember ? people can spend the dust ? so you or anyone knows what address proves any claim ? [16:34]
ben_vulpes yes yes yes [16:36]
trinque I get it [16:37]
trinque I just didn't run the old one, so was going to maybe mark these as having come from the old thing [16:37]
ben_vulpes if you want to, deliniate with an

and a note.
trinque it's not a big deal [16:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you gotta have a look at [16:37]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. [16:38]
ben_vulpes at the same's la serenissima's list of deeds. the notary in question is somewhat irrelevant. [16:38]
mircea_popescu craftsman allowed to put a history mark in there,

is quite reasoanble actually.
trinque ^ [16:38]
mircea_popescu no need for a knote. who knowsn knowsn and who doesn't know better go suck some cocks to find out. [16:38]
trinque not saying the old one didn't work, just wasn't my work [16:39]
trinque easy to verify whether it did too [16:39]
ben_vulpes is the dust getting collected? [16:39]
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mircea_popescu !rated gabriel_laddel [16:39]
assbot You have not rated gabriel_laddel. [16:39]
trinque ben_vulpes: it's still all out there [16:39]
trinque afaik [16:39]
ben_vulpes ibd [16:39]
mircea_popescu !rate gabriel_laddel 1 so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball. [16:40]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [16:40]
assbot A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( ) [16:40]
assbot Masamune ... ( ) [16:40]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gabriel_laddel.1:571f1ba6498d6c3fdb57a76a9bceb507251f88ce8977775e25f165ecfb533340 [16:40]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for gabriel_laddel with note: so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball. [16:40]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell gabriel_laddel "If you're reading this on github there is a more attractive HTML version here." but "here" IS on github. [16:42]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:42]
mircea_popescu mebbe i dun understand teh terminologies. [16:42]
ben_vulpes i think it's a note for people reading via the repository browser [16:43]
gabriel_laddel ^ correct. [16:43]
gabriel_laddel unless I give someone the direct link, as in here they'll only see it from that code path. [16:43]
mircea_popescu oh [16:43]
gabriel_laddel anyways, that is confusing and I'll update it [16:43]
mircea_popescu was masamune the "good" sword or the bad sword ? [16:44]
mircea_popescu funny that all the west knows of a millennium of craftsmanship perfection and perhaps the matrix for all human accomplishment is "but which was the bad one". [16:44]
gabriel_laddel It is the good sword. However in the game I stole the reference from - it was the sword of the villain. [16:45]
mircea_popescu because yeah, totally, good-evil duality, most important thing that happened. was tom cruise in that ? [16:45]
gabriel_laddel yeah, him and Bruce Willis [16:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform if you wish to blame someone for the new jersey approach, blame constantine. it is HIS fault he stopped throwing idiots to the lions. [16:45]
mircea_popescu the nj dudes were just wasps, an irrelevant, far removed margin of the idiocy pie. [16:46]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel "MOOCS (massively open online courses and the like) have failed due to fundamental issues with their technical perspective - a perspective shared by nearly the entire fiat world. New frontiers have opened, Masamune provides a technical foundation for mission critical programmes of the future." [16:47]
mircea_popescu this is vague, and in being vague is shit. [16:47]
mircea_popescu what is wrong with "moocs" ? [16:47]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: have you tried to use one? [16:48]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: or seen their completion rates? [16:48]
mircea_popescu seems besides the point, but no and yes. [16:48]
gabriel_laddel they're failures. [16:48]
mircea_popescu in the "completion rate" sense, esp if ill defined, b-a is a failure. [16:48]
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mircea_popescu i don't see how it matters. a school which takes 100 7yos, produces 86 dead 18 yos and 14 sane 18yos is best school. [16:49]
gabriel_laddel Completion rate is really irrelevent, the problem is that they've created this new "format" and books are still superior. [16:49]
mircea_popescu appalling completion rate, but fuck their mothers. [16:49]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel show, don't tell. [16:49]
gabriel_laddel kk, will do [16:49]
mircea_popescu and show me right here, at that. [16:50]
mircea_popescu alternatively, i could tell you what's fundamentally broken with them : [16:50]
gabriel_laddel Let's say that you sign up for a course. You cannot possibly learn anything interesting because they've got to execute all code in the browser, or barring that, you're aping youtube videos. [16:51]
mircea_popescu they purport to be learner-driven. this is as idiotic as it gets. education works in the following stages : learner picks a teacher TO SUBMIT TO, blindly. teacher rapes the learner. this is education. [16:51]
mircea_popescu in trying to insulate the learner from the hot core of education (the rape), moocs succeed in educating the learner from education altogether, [16:51]
gabriel_laddel but what about autodidacts? [16:51]
gabriel_laddel I've never had a formal teacher. [16:52]
mircea_popescu becoming something in the style of wikipedia : a great way to batten down the ignorance of users. after a mooc they're just as ignorant as before, but now it's much harder to fix. [16:52]
gabriel_laddel (well, one that I learned from) [16:52]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel autodidacts are a case of split personality [16:52]
mircea_popescu in those cases where they exist. [16:52]
mircea_popescu look at mats, nut can't even sleep. [16:52]
mats hey nao, i got 7 hours yest [16:53]
mircea_popescu see, THAT is fundamental. what you're describing is not fundamental in any sense, but merely technical. which may be whats' wrong with them, for that matter [16:53]
mircea_popescu mats how's life feel [16:53]
gabriel_laddel While I think that the whole submitting to a teacher thing is important in some cases, we have 100ks of people running through e.g., introductory chemistry courses. There are only so many paths to walk. [16:54]
gabriel_laddel One should be able to pick up a computer and learn [16:54]
mircea_popescu the path analogy is very misleading, imo. [16:54]
mats its a relatively nice spring day in new england [16:54]
mircea_popescu irl, there exists such a thing as gravity. you can't float broadly over a path. gravity pushes you down into it. [16:54]
mircea_popescu in abstract fields, no gravity to be your cruel mistress. [16:54]
mircea_popescu same must be provided for you elsewhere for your learning to be a path. [16:54]
mircea_popescu this can not be fixed by making the path itself different. it is outside the path. yes chemistry is the same. [16:55]
mircea_popescu for a learner to learn it, it's not enough for chemistry to "be". [16:55]
mircea_popescu mats nice spring here too, which means cooler o.O and for some reason they call spring autumn. [16:55]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel if you wish the path analogy, moocs are like tourists : they go "to a foreign country", spend their time between local mcdonalds and local starbucks in the "idiot foreigners" quarter. [16:56]
mircea_popescu travel is not tourism. travel is when you have pregnancy scares with local women that do not speak your language. [16:56]
mircea_popescu which brings us back to my point : tourist in kenya is not more knowledgeable on "the country of africa" than obama. guy that went through "mooc introduction to chemistry" has NOT been introduced to chemistry. [16:58]
mircea_popescu he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry. [16:58]
mats autumn? weird. [16:58]
mircea_popescu take enough of these you will never ever know anything. [16:58]
mats i'm headed out in a bit to check out some MIT exhibits [16:59]
ben_vulpes ask them to wire a lightbulb up [16:59]
mats where you at whaack [16:59]
mats yall don't give MIT kids enough credit. just sayn. [17:00]
mircea_popescu for that matter, another important hook is the scientific method. (kuhn's book on the topic is absolutely required here, and really it's 100 pages or some shit.) [17:00]
trinque mats: the US is literally idiocracy throughout [17:01]
mircea_popescu the scientific method exists to provide support for research BY DENYING RESEARCH. that's all it does : marks wide swaths of perfectly valid human inquiry with a tar brush reading "STUPID SHIT WE DONT CARE LALALA" [17:01]
mircea_popescu this is of course silly, in the abstract. in practice, it's the only way to have research, by cutting paths out of the unknown. [17:01]
mircea_popescu the kid who wants to go "in all directions" just ends up making wall pizza [17:02]
ben_vulpes eerie parallel to the "disqualifying bad teachers" thread. [17:02]
mircea_popescu exactly. [17:02]
mircea_popescu but anyway, moocs are made for the wiki generation of broken heads, and a necessary outgrowth from the brokedness baked in the pseudo-encyclopedism. [17:03]
ben_vulpes "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim. [17:03]
mats trinque: underestimating dangerous people is how clever folks get killed all the time. [17:03]
trinque eh? [17:04]
mircea_popescu mats how's the mit grad dangerous ? [17:04]
ben_vulpes lol mit kids are dangerous now? [17:04]
mircea_popescu well... "danger to himself and others"... [17:04]
trinque my comment was sarcastic; I'm sure there are those at MIT that can manage a lightbulb [17:04]
ben_vulpes the notion that google/facebook/mentorgraphics/ibm feeder schools produce dangerous individuals is *laughable* [17:04]
mats i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir. [17:04]
ben_vulpes precisely. [17:04]
ben_vulpes feeder schools for the meatrobot farms. [17:04]
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ben_vulpes MIT killed Schwartz. [17:05]
mircea_popescu uh. this is like saying "these drama nerds are very sexy, i know one writing for sex in the city" [17:05]
mircea_popescu that's... not how it works. [17:05]
mircea_popescu !up sinetekVII [17:05]
-assbot- You voiced sinetekVII for 30 minutes. [17:05]
* assbot gives voice to sinetekVII [17:05]
ben_vulpes all of the other smart kids now know - MIT murders those who step out of line. [17:05]
mats presuming there is not one functioning brain in the lot is fantasy. [17:05]
ben_vulpes best go to reed or something. [17:05]
ben_vulpes "not one functioning brain" << oversimplification [17:06]
mircea_popescu mats the presumption is merely that any remaining brains are there IN SPITE of mit [17:06]
mircea_popescu not because of it. that's all. [17:06]
ben_vulpes moreover, MIT isn't producing more "functioning brains" [17:06]
mircea_popescu but less. [17:06]
ben_vulpes but simulacra that pass the sniff test at palantir and other usg sinecure production theaters [17:06]
mircea_popescu fuck knows what palantir actually does. [17:07]
mircea_popescu dubious if even the head has a clear picture. mebbe, [17:07]
trinque persuade the usg to cut them fat checks [17:07]
ben_vulpes procures and doles out usg cash. what else does one need to know? [17:07]
mircea_popescu well, that's the function, financially, whatever. i mean you know, in its own privacy. [17:08]
mats what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT [17:08]
ben_vulpes writes haskell, wanks in ever more theatrical ways, no doubt. [17:08]
mats and its nothing to scoff at. even for a second. [17:08]
mats underestimate at your own peril [17:09]
mircea_popescu so i should be careful with my windows 7 - ready laptop around them ? [17:09]
ben_vulpes zing [17:10]
mircea_popescu i've been there yo. i lived half a year in lowell, mass. i ate half my meals in the house of professors there. i know the place, as it happens. [17:10]
mircea_popescu unless they found some sort of unction in the intervening decade, you can't find a single soul on the entire communist autonomous enclave of cambridge that can speak latin. [17:10]
mats lowell is the anus of greater boston, yo. [17:10]
ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel: 6.2.3 has some bogus character formatting [17:11]
mircea_popescu lol is it ? [17:11]
mircea_popescu at the time they were spending massively on some sort of "re-whatever" urban thing. turned a bunch of the old mills into artist lofts and whatnot [17:12]
mircea_popescu (middlesex college has better tail, btw). [17:12]
mircea_popescu < [17:13]
assbot Middlesex Community College - Middletown, CT ... ( ) [17:14]
assbot ... ( ) [17:14]
mircea_popescu shit, wrong one. wtf. [17:14]
ben_vulpes trinque: << 6.2.5 speaks to our shared visions of corporation as research/engineering labs [17:14]
assbot A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( ) [17:14]
mircea_popescu sadly no lulzy picture of words. [17:14]
assbot Middlesex Community College - Homepage ... ( ) [17:14]
trinque ben_vulpes: this writeup is triggering my end-user-programming ptsd [17:19]
mircea_popescu he really got something there. [17:19]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel i hope you appreciate i hit you over the head because i like you. [17:19]
ben_vulpes i've gleaned some useful stuff from this. [17:20]
ben_vulpes mostly that curating a distro and then building a lispy "os" on it is a bugger of a task. [17:20]
ben_vulpes (also that SLY exists) [17:20]
trinque ben_vulpes: 6.1 was eric's thought on the matter as well [17:21]
trinque that the right computing environment would just naturally de-derp the user [17:21]
trinque I have my doubts [17:21]
mircea_popescu "The technical apartheid." [17:22]
trinque mircea_popescu: my old boss called it the "end-user/developer divide." [17:22]
mircea_popescu ^ lulzy. naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret [17:22]
mircea_popescu so... you do in fact agree self directed doesn't work, and the shit has to be stomped out. just don't wanna say it. [17:23]
trinque I agree 100% [17:23]
mircea_popescu trinque there's definitely something to it. taking people out of a social context which forces and incentivizes them to be stupid usually results in shock, and then significant improvement. [17:23]
ben_vulpes #b-a in a nutshell. [17:24]
trinque anything I know is because I had mentors yelling at me and/or my work over my career so far [17:24]
mircea_popescu kinda how "brainwashing" in the harem works. or body washing, for that matter. [17:24]
mircea_popescu "i can't believe i'm losing all this weight. i am eating way more than b4" [17:24]
trinque how could the student know how to construct a scenario which will teach him something he does not yet know [17:25]
trinque maybe accidentally, but that's about it [17:25]
mircea_popescu ... rather than provide for him the illusion that he has something new while saving him the effort by merely renaming the old shit in his head. [17:25]
mircea_popescu self directed learning is like declaratory gender. "i am a woman now". "i am a chemist now". wd eh. [17:26]
mircea_popescu " oil, refineries " << spurious comma at least. [17:27]
mircea_popescu footnote 2 is at best confused, and fails to make its point. [17:28]
mircea_popescu regarding the following questions: [basic, sensible questions] … doth not work, for one. [17:28]
mircea_popescu " Prior to this, the IRS scandal, and currently the administration is refusing to take action on the illegal immigration problem. " << the main clause lost its verb. [17:29]
mircea_popescu whole thing looks to me like so much emotion flailing to find expression. [17:29]
mircea_popescu Googling "Leeland Yee", "California IOU", "Keith Jackson" or "mexican gangs" paints a rather grim picture. << i thought the web was broken. [17:29]
trinque I think this self directed learning thing is just a reaction against having shitty universities; I know that's what motivated me to work on something similar [17:30]
mircea_popescu ow sheit look at that. linking to... "the myspace anyone can edit" from your foundational document ? what happens if tomorrow that thing reads "laddel eats c0ks lawl" ? [17:30]
mircea_popescu trinque yeah, which i insist on the score. the way the brokedness system has propagated itself since at least hamilton, ie two centuries ago, [17:31]
mircea_popescu is the carefully managed "reaction to". [17:31]
mircea_popescu if you think about how a split is driven into wood, i mean the newtonian mechanics underlying the process, you have the model ready : each advancement of the split is a "reaction to" one side or the other overbalancing. [17:32]
mircea_popescu you can waltz straight to the devil on x axis by bouncing from -1 to +1 on the y axis. [17:32]
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mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel " I've assembled some quotes from Wikipedia which paint, from what I could tell, an accurate picture," what is the meaning of "from what i could tell" in that sentence ? because the follow-up, "I've lived in the US for 22 years and heard nothing about" seems essentially an appeal to ignorance. but that aside, how does the "From what i could tell" construct emerge here ? [17:35]
mircea_popescu people don't want to sign code, even code they've written. trinque doesn't want to vouch for bundles he inherited. yet you're willing to vouch for this. why and how come ? [17:36]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: "this" the distro? [17:40]
mircea_popescu no, this the excerpt. [17:41]
ben_vulpes ah [17:41]
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mircea_popescu "africa is still trying to work around the genetic/epigenetic/cultural relationship that leads the inhabitants to destroy anything resembling order." [17:44]
mircea_popescu africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered. [17:44]
mircea_popescu kinda the subhuman indolence discussed in is its problem. not teh "violent disorder". [17:45]
assbot Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( ) [17:45]
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mircea_popescu rhodesia is the informative example on this topic. the white guys could survive the attack of outside blacks with the support of the inside blacks, even as the outsiders were being sponsored by the usual "helpers". [17:46]
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mircea_popescu if you can spend half your tiem on your farm and half the time shooting socialists in the head and still be a region leader, clearly the region's not much of a challenge in the first place. [17:46]
mircea_popescu !up williamdunne [17:46]
-assbot- You voiced williamdunne for 30 minutes. [17:46]
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mircea_popescu an' all that's really missing is someone willing to go to the trouble. [17:47]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_modem [17:50]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_modem for 30 minutes. [17:50]
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mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel see, the djikstra quotes are great. because they are SOMEONE. [17:53]
mircea_popescu i propose, broadly, that nobody ever cites wikipedia, in any context. for this exact reason : source needed. [17:53]
mircea_popescu "knowledge" without source is gunk. ideally the source is a pgp signature. absent that, it may be a name pre 1980. [17:54]
mircea_popescu but people we don't know from before 1980 MAY NOT EVER BE CITED unless they get in wot. [17:54]
ascii_modem in old town dc / seppukuras bloom / but no sword have we. [17:54]
ascii_modem ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat? [17:54]
mircea_popescu to go with the "how to fight pseudoscience : ignore it" stuff on trilema. [17:54]
mircea_popescu lol maybe his pussy. [17:54]
mircea_popescu I once knew a girl, she was very smart. she went to mit, and never came back. [17:55]
mircea_popescu no wait. [17:55]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: What about using citations found on WikiPedia from somewhat credible sources (post 1980) that lack PGP sigs? [17:55]
mircea_popescu I knew a girl once, she was very smart. She went to mit, then returned but never came back. [17:55]
mircea_popescu williamdunne someone late may not be credible if they do not get in the wot. [17:56]
mircea_popescu someone early may be excused because the word did not exist, is all. [17:56]
mircea_popescu "exactly like the bible was driven. before was before, but this is after." [17:56]
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mircea_popescu "During the last decades the American Departments of Computing Science have severely suffered from a discrepancy between what society asked for and what society needed, but, be it slowly, the gap seems to be closing." [18:00]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:00]
mircea_popescu mr d is fortunate to have never considered "social studies" seriously. [18:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163250 @ 0.00029545 = 48.2322 BTC [+] {2} [18:40]
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trinque \ [18:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150120 @ 0.00029247 = 43.9056 BTC [-] [19:03]
whaack MIT duped a bunch of old guys to give us ~1,000 coins. Sure there are many "bad apples" but MP is definitely hating. Idk what's up with the lightbulb video it is a selected subset for the segment IMO [19:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172100 @ 0.00029703 = 51.1189 BTC [+] {3} [19:25]
mircea_popescu whaack for all we know it's actors. [19:26]
mircea_popescu i've never irl met anyone who couldn't actually light a bulb. [19:26]
whaack right, that is not realistic [19:27]
mircea_popescu still - ars longa, vita brevis. betting on ignorance is always safe. [19:28]
mircea_popescu the problem is that they are selling themselves wrongly : as an achievement rather than as an attempt. which is what allows stuff like that video to *denote*, whether it describes or not. [19:28]
mircea_popescu and that problem is present, and that problem is the deep reason i despise mit as an intellectual approach. [19:28]
mircea_popescu im pretty sure it's why everyone else here, too. [19:28]
mircea_popescu you follow ? [19:29]
whaack oh definitely, that is a great way to word how I feel about MIT too [19:30]
mircea_popescu so there we go. [19:30]
whaack it's marketed that way due to the widespread lack of self-confidence in the community [19:32]
mircea_popescu now what might be the cause of that. [19:32]
mircea_popescu sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt. [19:33]
mircea_popescu to a sadly larger degree however, the mit graudates' professed confidence rings hollow, like the posturings of the tiny dicked. [19:33]
mircea_popescu the important part of that video isn't even (to my critical eye) the "light a bulb" segment. the important part is the opening sequence. a dweeb dweebing about how "we are the premiere bla bla". o yeah ? [19:35]
mircea_popescu well for one, rhetorics is more than praxis, it's also the voice. that is NOT how you speak, if you even know what speech is. [19:35]
mircea_popescu but he doesn't. why does he do it then ? [19:35]
mircea_popescu oh, shall we excuse him because well... he didn't say premiere humanities, he said premiere technical, and this distinction is actually a thing ? [19:36]
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mircea_popescu if we shall excuse him for this, then why is he speaking at all ? he should show, right ? he's a technical guy, riught ? how come the only way his technical achievement reaches me is through rhetorics ? [19:36]
mircea_popescu it's a sort of self-parody, that thing. the lightbulb segment merely drives this point home to people who aren't accustomed withj judging discourse : the guys are making total fools of themselves. the way they do it reminds the way the original guy did it. [19:37]
mircea_popescu it's really a very well constructed piece, what with this classical parts of discourse, reinforcements of thesis etc approach. the guy that made it handshakes with me, and that's why i believe the piece to be important. it's not a matter of the wikified "was it or wasn't it", totalitarian superficialism. it's that the guy that made it clearly knows what he should be saying, and how. [19:39]
whaack well for starters the person who winds up on the podium is going to be the one who spent his time trying to make sure he was on the podium instead of doing something interesting, so he/she will always be amongst the least interesting people at MIT [19:39]
mircea_popescu and this can possibly excuse mit ? [19:40]
mircea_popescu sounds a lot more like an indictment. [19:40]
whaack also, he is likely stating this to try to fight against "sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt." Whether or not he's having an internal struggle and displaying it or trying to help others with their internal struggles idk, probably the former lol [19:43]
mircea_popescu i do not read in the original speaker even the faintest glimmer of intellectual life. [19:44]
mircea_popescu he is simply making stuff out of masticated wood pulp, like a wasp [19:44]
mircea_popescu "because it's what's done. because it's what was always done. citation needed." [19:44]
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mircea_popescu a more grievous insult to what mit aims to pretend it is could not be devised. even if they invited elena ceausescu to hold that podium. [19:45]
mircea_popescu an earthworm taped to an empty box at the grocer's is at least unrelated to academia, rather than the exact opposite of it. they would have been better served by the earthworm. [19:46]
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whaack right, but you collect a lot of people into the group "mit" The people who are in charge of running the quasi-religious graduation ceremony are logically always going to be the ones who are not pursuing interesting shit [19:49]
whaack About half the students don't show up to this stuff, and when they do it's just because it's a place to socialize while someone is rambling in the background [19:50]
mircea_popescu why logically ? [19:50]
mircea_popescu that's the crux here. why "logically" ? [19:51]
whaack because if you are deeply invested in research you have no time for the podium shenanagins, so it logically follows that those who are not deeply invested in research are the ones who do have time for podium shenanagins [19:52]
mircea_popescu so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ? [19:53]
mircea_popescu division of labour is one thing. thought however... now that's indivisible. [19:53]
whaack so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ? << I'm confused what you're saying [19:55]
mircea_popescu i am saying that historically kids that could add were excused from having to express themselves on the very flimsy grounds that "hey, not like they went to vassar, they're technical minds". hence the humanities-technicals division. [19:56]
mircea_popescu now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ? [19:56]
mircea_popescu like alf's meta-nsa ? [19:56]
mircea_popescu like, you know, "my real self hasn't shown up yet" ? [19:57]
whaack now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ? << basically, yes [19:57]
mircea_popescu seems a diseased state. [19:57]
mircea_popescu imo society would be better off with a lot of conjugally abused women ("but you don't know him like i do!") and functioning institutions [19:58]
mircea_popescu than with no conjugal arrangements to speask of and institutionally abused people ("but you don't know mit like i do!") [19:59]
mircea_popescu wtf even is all this cancer. [19:59]
mircea_popescu ssergorp or something. [19:59]
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mircea_popescu used to be. not anymore, thanks to wot etc, but myeah. [20:07]
mircea_popescu still, a significant bias against anyone that offers their being a mit graduate does attach. one necessarily thinks "so this kid is dumb or what." [20:08]
mircea_popescu even if they appear smart, that flaw is hard to wash. "he's dumb at least some times, apparently..." [20:09]
whaack So... do you hold it against me for even revealing that I'm a student there? [20:11]
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mircea_popescu i don't particularly care, but doesn't it make you yourself wonder ? [20:12]
mircea_popescu anyway, to answer the general question : biases are a statistic concept, they are meaningful when discussing groups, not individuals. for all i know you're there to troll them, or the only pipe you can get water to your house in happens to be rusted, what are you to do, be without water at all ? gotta wash etc. [20:14]
mircea_popescu moreover,without specific cause, why would i judge the affairs of another to begin with ? [20:15]
mircea_popescu you can be the dean of aids-is-cured-by-raping-virgin-infants university of harare for all i care. [20:15]
whaack so revealing I go to MIT, for the most part, commands the respect of ignorant people [20:16]
whaack so instead of "he's dumb at least some times, apparently.." you may want to think "is this fucker insulting me?" [20:17]
mircea_popescu well if you do it inappropriately it may well command the disdain of thinking people. [20:17]
mircea_popescu everyone's dumb at least some of the time. [20:18]
mircea_popescu what exactly would be insulting about you going to mit ? [20:18]
mircea_popescu i go to fratelli icecream parlour, does that insult you ? [20:18]
whaack I'm saying that some ignorant people exalt those who go to MIT [20:19]
whaack so, if for whatever reason I want the respect of an ignorant person, I may reveal to them that I go to MIT [20:19]
mircea_popescu well, kinda poisoned. you don't generally want the respect of ignorant people on their own terms, but on yours. [20:20]
mircea_popescu if you allow them to respect you on their own terms you end up buying into their stupidity sooner or later. [20:20]
whaack right this is something I've realized / been coming to terms with only recently [20:21]
whaack (sadly) [20:21]
mircea_popescu you got plenty of time, [20:22]
mircea_popescu for tomorrow, you die. [20:22]
whaack your words hit hard, gonna copy that one [20:23]
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e63 E8888____ elgrecoFL EPiSKiNG- eric ericmuys_ evian11_____ [20:24]
mircea_popescu !up e63 [20:24]
-assbot- You voiced e63 for 30 minutes. [20:24]
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whaack ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key)) [20:25]
mircea_popescu great conversation piece [20:25]
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mircea_popescu << sadly. [20:32]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 17:09:13; mats: this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook [20:32]
mircea_popescu << werd. [20:34]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 19:14:20; ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase. [20:34]
mircea_popescu and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" and why is it that the retarded seem to be particularly offended at whatever you happened to write last. [20:35]
mircea_popescu sort-of like the bear wondering why he's not getting any milk and the shepherd dogs bark. [20:35]
mircea_popescu "if only you were a sheep" "but i'm to big to be a sheep!" "nevertheless" "but sheep don't get milk anyway" "well... they're in the general area of where cheese is made..." [20:36]
mircea_popescu logic. [20:36]
mircea_popescu "So what is power? According to our friend Thomas Hobbes: servants, friends, riches, reputation, success, affability, nobility, eloquence, and being handsome." sheeit i had forgotten that definition. [20:38]
mircea_popescu it actually is not even half bad. [20:38]
mircea_popescu SFRRSANE&BH [20:38]
mircea_popescu sfrr, sane & bh. [20:39]
mircea_popescu (much funnier in romanian, where sfrr is an onomatopeia for sizzle, as in a steak's sizzle, and thus implicitly a pars pro toto reference to "servants, friends, riches, reputation", ie the steak's sizzle.) [20:40]
mircea_popescu with expressions like "nici o sfiriala" =lit "no sizzle" = no big deal. [20:40]
* ben_vulpes reviews the logs [20:44]
ben_vulpes it's the mircea_popescu show! [20:45]
mircea_popescu lol [20:45]
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mircea_popescu irc is the largest challenge to blogging i ever saw. [20:47]
ben_vulpes anyways nonzero odds my grandmother passes during con3 [20:47]
mircea_popescu well... "irc". assbot-wot-irc. [20:47]
ben_vulpes specifically #bitcoin-assets, and that only this year. [20:47]
mircea_popescu myeah. [20:47]
* mircea_popescu is out of grandparents. [20:48]
ben_vulpes this is the last biological one i have [20:48]
ben_vulpes and the second to pass while i'm in argentina, if things do play out that way. [20:49]
mircea_popescu well here's to not. [20:49]
ben_vulpes had an amusing conversation with a "transhumanist" the other day about life extension. counterparty had the notion that somehow we'd seen the limits of the body but not the limits of the brain. i asked if this person had actually ever watched an elderly person go through terminal decline, and the answer was of course "no". [20:50]
mircea_popescu See, 3D Labs was a dying company. Their expensive GPUs were being marginalized by NVIDIA's increasing pressure on the workstation market. And unlike NVIDIA, 3D Labs did not have any presence in the mainstream market; if NVIDIA won, they died. [20:50]
mircea_popescu Which they did. [20:50]
mircea_popescu So, in a bid to remain relevant in a world that didn't want their products, 3D Labs showed up to a Game Developer Conference wielding presentations for something they called "OpenGL 2.0". This would be a complete, from-scratch rewrite of the OpenGL API. And that makes sense; there was a lot of cruft in OpenGL's API at the time (note: that cruft still exists). Just look at how texture loading and binding work; it's semi [20:50]
mircea_popescu -arcane. [20:50]
mircea_popescu dude... [20:50]
ben_vulpes somehow to this person body and brain are separate things. this person who's never actually watched the terminal trainwreck of cascading failures. [20:51]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes and this person was under 30, and had never taken a virgin asshole, or planted a tree or butchered as much as a rabbit, couldn't put together a disassembled weapon of their choice if they had the whole day [20:51]
mircea_popescu and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr. [20:51]
ben_vulpes heh mas o menos [20:51]
mircea_popescu (pro tip : if you get your job from the hr dept you suck. real men get their jobs from the ceo.) [20:52]
ben_vulpes does actually know how to leverage meatwot for work, could probably put a bolt action together, but that's about it. [20:52]
mircea_popescu and to never pass on a good sexist joke : real women, too. [20:53]
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ben_vulpes well here's to not. << happens to all of us, no sense derping about when or under what conditions. [20:53]
mircea_popescu there is that. [20:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187450 @ 0.00029744 = 55.7551 BTC [+] {2} [20:55]
ben_vulpes i << you only have the one addr, and plan to tell folks about it? [20:56]
ben_vulpes ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat? << 'tis a tentacle of the beast slithering out of the lake, seeking to fasten its suckers onto and drag under those who'd otherwise fight by my side [21:00]
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ben_vulpes asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo? [21:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 449 @ 0.00251001 = 1.127 BTC [-] [21:54]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu, mod6 (others tracking the DNS seed thread as well): i'd like to hear from you all as well [21:56]
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mircea_popescu that js at google "leaked email" thing is retarded. [22:11]
mircea_popescu first off, the ios bs is no thread to the web. second off, the web's reach was never a major factor. third off, the web is failing, on its dismerits, but those have exactly nothing to do with javascript. [22:12]
mircea_popescu fourth, js was never a significant or worthy of mention part of the web, at no stage in its lifecycle and certainly not during "infancy". [22:13]
mircea_popescu fifth, the "web designer community" is ~= vc bezzle. it has exactly nothing to do with the web, relevancy, the future or anything else. [22:13]
mircea_popescu and i could go on but whatevs. not like we're writing the encyclopedia of stupid. [22:13]
mircea_popescu !up williamdunne [22:15]
-assbot- You voiced williamdunne for 30 minutes. [22:15]
* assbot gives voice to williamdunne [22:15]
mircea_popescu !gettrust assbot williamdunne [22:15]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user williamdunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | | [22:16]
williamdunne Thank you [22:16]
mircea_popescu !rate williamdunne 1 new blood [22:16]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [22:16]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.williamdunne.1:6f842a3ee562affa0e377e4854d8c2a068b5464a0bb241fec1ff5a28c232aa96 [22:16]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for williamdunne with note: new blood [22:16]
williamdunne So the b-a WoT is separate to the b-otc WoT [22:17]
mircea_popescu yes. [22:17]
williamdunne And yeah, JS has always been about sacrificing security/performance for UX [22:17]
mircea_popescu "ux". [22:18]
williamdunne Well yes, most of the time they take it overboard and it ends up being a suicidal ordeal [22:19]
mircea_popescu dux, more properly said. "interface with the stupid users". while i see a clear reason why all women should twerk, whether they like to or not, i see no reason any computer should ever twerk, whether women want them to or not. [22:19]
mircea_popescu currently this situation is ass-backwards. [22:19]
williamdunne "how do i use mpex - i think the css is broken1" [22:20]
mircea_popescu i should probably put a "if you don't see the css, please get the latest version of your browser" [22:20]
mircea_popescu drive people nuts. [22:20]
williamdunne "please install internet explorer 6" [22:21]
mircea_popescu "mpex is from the future. you need internet exploder 28 to view its css v 9 1/3" [22:21]
williamdunne However that sort of tomfoolery might lose you your "slightly smoky dragon" award [22:22]
mircea_popescu " The ability to incrementally develop programs (featured in the first video) has been a cornerstone feature of Lisp since the 80s (or earlier). " << you know this is the only way i like to program in the rare cases i actually do ? [22:22]
mircea_popescu lol [22:22]
williamdunne Yes I can remember reading something by you about the stupidity of beautiful code [22:25]
williamdunne Or at least of having beautiful code being prioritized over functional code [22:25]
mircea_popescu mebbe [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 10000 @ 0.000206 = 2.06 BTC [-] [22:31]
williamdunne Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX? [22:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 157550 @ 0.00029285 = 46.1385 BTC [-] {2} [22:33]
mircea_popescu once the blog's back remind me an' i'll link you. [22:41]
williamdunne Thank you [22:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 301100 @ 0.00029719 = 89.4839 BTC [+] {2} [22:53]
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williamdunne Is the source for the WoT available? If I have some free time I'd like to take a crack at making it more readable [23:09]
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felipelalli !rate mircea_popescu 2 "his articles are great and fully of truth" [23:12]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [23:12]
felipelalli williamdunne: "Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?" << I wonder the same. [23:14]
felipelalli williamdunne: this was for me the icing on the cake. [23:15]
williamdunne Gotta love some hedging [23:15]
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asciilifeform re: the mit thing: [23:27]
asciilifeform [23:27]
assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:43; asciilifeform: sussman, surrendering to decay: [23:27]
assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:44; asciilifeform: 'You have to do basic science on your libraries to see how they work, trying out different inputs and seeing how the code reacts.' [23:27]
williamdunne If anyone is looking for a invite hit me up [23:27]
asciilifeform ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe. [23:27]
asciilifeform williamdunne: we don't want invite to coprophagic restaurant either... [23:28]
williamdunne To each his own, while its certainly not a WoT it seems useful to me [23:29]
williamdunne (It is not meant to be WoT) [23:29]
asciilifeform williamdunne: keybase and friends (usg in the broadest possible sense) can read your mail and sign as you. [23:29]
asciilifeform if this satisfies you, why are you even bothering with crypto [23:29]
williamdunne I don't store by GPG keys on Keybase... [23:29]
asciilifeform to continue with mit thread: and to answer whaack's question: yes being associated with modern mit (vs 1980s and prior) is a serious strike against you. especially if you 'succeed' there. or, heaven help you, employed therein [23:30]
asciilifeform to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so. [23:31]
asciilifeform virtually 100% envirowhinerism, 'solutions' for the turd world, or 'accomplishments' of the Officially Sad [23:31]
asciilifeform nothing even remotely SICP like. [23:32]
asciilifeform since 1990 or so. [23:32]
asciilifeform and yes i wanted to probe ben_vulpes before saying all of this. [23:33]
asciilifeform see how much his picture overlapped with mine. [23:34]
asciilifeform but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard. [23:34]
asciilifeform and wish to see it demolished, the earth - salted, the inhabitants - lowered into pederasty [23:35]
asciilifeform folks who went there - either of these or any other top academies of usg - by all rights ought to pretend to have spent their youth in jail or army. [23:35]
williamdunne Both of which cost less [23:36]
asciilifeform suppose you meet a chemist who enthusiastically studied and 'succeeded' - top marks! - under elena ceausescu. [23:36]
asciilifeform or a biologist - under lysenko. [23:36]
asciilifeform what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ? [23:37]
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* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu:asciilifeform you gotta have a look at << gabriel_laddel has good summaries of things, but i must confess that i am not particularly interested in 'lispy unix' as i consider it coprophagic pizza. [23:41]
assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. [23:41]
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asciilifeform trimming down a unixlike to run therealbitcoin and other traditional proggies that we're stuck with - is one thing [23:41]
asciilifeform to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other. [23:41]
* assbot gives voice to whaack [23:43]
mats 22:22:28 <+asciilifeform> ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe. << link? [23:43]
asciilifeform mats: linked shortly below in one of the linked log threads [23:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry. << a more or less complete description of most american 'education' on most-any subject today. [23:45]
asciilifeform not just at university level, either. [23:45]
asciilifeform mats: i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir. << i imagine you know what takes place there. [23:46]
mats its not linked, but i did find it by querying the fragment [23:46]
assbot international lisp conference -- day two -- wingolog ... ( ) [23:46]
asciilifeform (palantir holds the title for best nameable candidate for meta-nsa. in that they are known to produce the tools which actually work, and - not being part of civil service hierarchy - are free to actually pay programmers something like real money) [23:47]
asciilifeform when i say 'meta-nsa' - again it does not meant that every bipedal amoebal 'success organism' drawing pay there is a brilliant master [23:48]
asciilifeform most folks in any large organization whatsoever are chaff. [23:48]
mats yes, thats why i mentioned it. as a word of caution about respecting the enemy. [23:49]
mats sometimes i wonder if folks in here have spent too much time battling midgets and have forgotten what its like to fight a man. [23:50]
whaack to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so. << as was expressed in my conversation with mp, mit's press facade is different than its internals. Much like bitcoin [23:50]
asciilifeform mats: man appears to fight mainly by swinging midgets like hammer [23:50]
asciilifeform (why - ask him, not me) [23:50]
mats lol. [23:50]
asciilifeform whaack: ultimately 'you are what you pretend to be, so choose carefully what to pretend to be' [23:51]
asciilifeform this applies to mit, usg, rome, whoever. [23:51]
decimation mats: < turns out us military has used hand-to-hand more often than one might think [23:51]
assbot The 2014 Hand-to-Hand StudyMad Science Defense ... ( ) [23:51]
decimation "216 out of 1,226 Soldiers (19.0%) reported using hand-to-hand combat skills in at least one encounter. The Soldiers’ descriptions indicated that hand-to-hand combat occurred in a variety of tactical situations " [23:52]
mats of course. USG spent the last decade in iraq fighting in hovels. [23:52]
asciilifeform how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ? [23:52]
mats 'combatives' are an essential part of training. especially in MOUT. [23:52]
decimation “The second lesson incorporated from the PAIs was that Soldiers in OEF and OIF reported that their hand-to-hand combat encounters revolved around a contest over the Soldier’s weapon (e.g., rifle). It appears that a Soldier’s opponent regularly attempted to wrest control of the Soldier’s weapon during hand-to-hand combat encounters.” [23:52]
mats (military operations in urban terrain) [23:52]
asciilifeform mats: what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT << i find it peculiar that anyone would expect to encounter any concentration of such folks in the flesh, for the most part anywhere [23:53]
mats i didn't expect it, i sought them out [23:54]
asciilifeform what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen [23:54]
asciilifeform prestige farms draw narcissists, 'news at 11.' [23:54]
mats if not to learn from them, then to identify useful assets [23:55]
decimation asciilifeform: < a wider indictment of academia [23:55]
assbot " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( ) [23:55]
ben_vulpes ;;ticker [23:56]
gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 237.73, Best ask: 237.89, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 237.82, 24 hour volume: 18095.46381514, 24 hour low: 233.72, 24 hour high: 240.58, 24 hour vwap: None [23:56]
decimation "So the sort of papers that are published in psychology, over 92% of them are, 'Oh, here's a hypothesis; I did an experiment; and I get support.' So that is a problem. Because it leads to people essentially data mining to find a result to find a result and then getting it published. " [23:56]
asciilifeform decimation: iirc they recently abandoned the very concept of 'p-value' in its entirety. [23:56]
asciilifeform because 'our pheeeelingz matter' [23:56]
asciilifeform damnatio memoriae. [23:57]
asciilifeform everyone responsible - straight to butugychag. [23:57]
decimation "What worries me is that some of these findings that are found with the big data and the data miners, that people look at the findings and then only after the finding, they concoct a story or a theory, develop ex post some intuition, as to why this should work. And I think that's dangerous. I prefer to work on the basis of first principles: what is reasonable." [23:57]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'. [23:57]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it is merely the top concern among such meat processing plants, just as mcdonalds is a leader but sole player in the recycled-food field. [23:58]
whaack what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen << my point is the showmen are simply the loudest [23:58]
asciilifeform i choose to place the fall of mit as the moment when sicp fell [23:59]
asciilifeform just as the fall of rome is pinned to the particular overthrow where it is traditionally pinned [23:59]
asciilifeform though both edifices were rotten quite thoroughly to the core long prior. [23:59]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i labored a bottom-tier version of same. if that place was as it was, MIT must be even more so. [23:59]
ben_vulpes at* a [23:59]
  1. changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key []
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