Forum logs for 10 Apr 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

and

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Mats_cd03	fucking lol	[00:02]
Mats_cd03	> you are all only critic the people who are more clever than you!	[00:02]
jurov	--> dotcoin (5d10ab51@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.16.171.81) is here ... welcome :)	[00:02]
dotcoin	hello jurov	[00:03]
dotcoin	once more a story from you	[00:03]
Mats_cd03	i hear dotcoin is a qt	[00:03]
dotcoin	tell me why you want file a complaint on AMF	[00:03]
BingoBoingo	Oh, I won't go hungry today. Not with Mr Word Salad here.	[00:04]
Apocalyptic	they're coming dotcoin, it's too late	[00:04]
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Mats_cd03	what organization does he operate	[00:04]
jurov	https://bitcointa.lk/threads/new-shares-on-bitcoin-bourse-hedge-fund-btc-hfb.296970/	[00:05]
dotcoin	your name makes me afraid Apolcalyptic	[00:05]
ozbot	New Shares on Bitcoin Bourse: Hedge Fund BTC "HFB" \| Bitcointa.lk	[00:05]
jurov	dotcoin if you did not lock your threads on trolltalk, i'd write this in all of them	[00:05]
Mats_cd03	oh yeah this guy	[00:05]
Apocalyptic	dotcoin, that's good	[00:05]
Mats_cd03	dotcoin, be a clever man and cut your losses	[00:05]
jurov	i don't need nor want to explain more	[00:05]
Mats_cd03	you are in shark waters not a kiddie pool	[00:05]
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dotcoin	i like funny guys like you	[00:06]
Mats_cd03	youll enjoy a legal battle several years from now and end up indebted to creditors	[00:06]
dotcoin	no eggs and behind a keyboard	[00:06]
Mats_cd03	or maybe you'll just skip go, not collect 200, and go straight to prison	[00:06]
dotcoin	trolls day compled because no work?	[00:07]
Mats_cd03	have a nice day	[00:07]
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dotcoin	So waste time here, tell the AMF they can sue me after they have declared Bitcoin as Money or currency, N8 at all	[00:08]
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chairman_meow	!jd	[00:08]
assbot	Just-Dice stat: 0 BTC profit, 0.0k BTC invested, 0.00 mio bets, 0.00 mio BTC wagered	[00:08]
pankkake	dooglus stole it all?	[00:09]
chairman_meow	wtf	[00:09]
pankkake	!jd	[00:09]
assbot	Just-Dice stat: 0 BTC profit, 0.0k BTC invested, 0.00 mio bets, 0.00 mio BTC wagered	[00:10]
pankkake	definitively broken	[00:10]
chairman_meow	had a mini heart attack there. thought my coins were gone	[00:10]
mike_c	bang jd breaks when they change IP addresses	[00:11]
chairman_meow	are there any other gambling sites I can invest in?	[00:11]
chairman_meow	I dont wanna put all my coins in just-dive	[00:11]
chairman_meow	*dice	[00:11]
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jurov	chairman_meow: how much?	[00:11]
chairman_meow	jurov: it doesnt matter really	[00:11]
pankkake	I tried https://ice-dice.com/ for a while, but I don't really have any reason to trust it	[00:11]
pankkake	a calculator of expected gains would be nice, as each have different invested/volume ratios, I suppose	[00:12]
wao-ender	chairman_meow: let's spin at https://coinroll.it/	[00:13]
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chairman_meow	really, the owners of jd can run away with the money and live a good life	[00:13]
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daybyter	any designers here interested to help with a smartphone app?	[00:14]
wao-ender	you mean dooglus?	[00:14]
mike_c	well, the invested/volume is constantly changing. you can see historical monthly jd returns here: http://www.btcalpha.com/income/	[00:14]
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pankkake	wild idea: create a meta investment arbitraging between dice sites	[00:15]
pankkake	of course, you're adding new risks	[00:15]
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chairman_meow	arbitrage between dice sites? how?	[00:16]
mike_c	there's no arbitrage. but you mean just switching like mining pools do?	[00:16]
pankkake	yes	[00:16]
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mike_c	JD is 2 orders of magnitude bigger. not sure there's much switching to be done.	[00:17]
thestringpuller	geeze #bitcoin-otc is just full of n00bs these days	[00:17]
pankkake	I see	[00:17]
thestringpuller	what the actual fuck	[00:17]
pankkake	or scammers posing as noobs?	[00:17]
thestringpuller	no otc is to buy/sell btc right	[00:18]
thestringpuller	no one is selling or buying	[00:18]
thestringpuller	they are just in their wanking off	[00:18]
thestringpuller	eternal september?	[00:18]
bounce	http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/04/06/the-1-new-paid-app-in-the-play-store-costs-4-has-over-10000-downloads-a-4-7-star-rating-and-its-a-total-scam/	[00:22]
bounce	app protects from malware by... er, giving you the ability to set and remove a check mark in a shield?	[00:22]
daybyter	my app could do more...	[00:23]
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bounce	but does your app have a 4.7 star rating?	[00:24]
pankkake	I remember some similar windows applications, claimed to speed up your computer etc.	[00:24]
jurov	the monitor cleaner was better	[00:24]
pankkake	placebo applications	[00:24]
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mircea_popescu	http://imgur.com/r4GoMbU << that shit's creepy as fuck	[00:37]
chairman_meow	please don't be gayporn	[00:38]
jborkl	well it does kinda look like a goth dude with bib boobs	[00:39]
jborkl	big	[00:39]
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mircea_popescu	but first, as per recent trilema recommendation, i shall comprehensively blog about it << i'll tweet you.	[00:40]
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mircea_popescu	what is shuffled? << remember how the logs were messed up on april 1st ? and someone said "omfg the log now reads like the forum" ? well, that.	[00:41]
jurov	yes? i completely missed that up	[00:42]
kakobrekla	http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=93	[00:42]
ozbot	#bitcoin-assets bash	[00:42]
bounce	unintentional correct use of term of art.	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	eval(translate(intoalanguage( trolls day compled because no work?))) === ?	[00:43]
jborkl	mircea, I have about half of bcoinnews.com redone - see if you think it is too busy when you have a sec	[00:45]
jborkl	If you don't mind :)	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	jborkl http://www.webpagetest.org/result/140409_25_11JA/	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	main problem would be... it takes like a minute to pop.	[00:47]
jborkl	ah ok, I know what to do about that then- thank you	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	also i dunno why you'd recommend anyone upgrade to 9.1. more like downgrade to 6.3 or something.	[00:48]
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mircea_popescu	http://www.bcoinnews.com/kncminer-neptune-update/ < i see three boxes around article. any reason ?	[00:49]
jborkl	well, anthing before .8 wont work anymore right?	[00:49]
ozbot	KNCminer Neptune update \| Bitcoin news	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise imo much improvement.	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	jborkl .4 works, what, you kidding ?	[00:49]
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jborkl	I thought they switched DB and said it was not compatible	[00:49]
jborkl	maybe they just said that	[00:49]
jborkl	never actually tried it to see, oh mining against bitcoind wouldnt work	[00:50]
jborkl	if you did not switch	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	it works just fine, you have to actually add a db config	[00:50]
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jborkl	well, I know if you upgraded to the .8? or newer you would then have to dl the old blockchain to use a prior version. I remember it created - anyway I did not know you could still use the old versions	[00:53]
jborkl	very good to know	[00:53]
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mircea_popescu	sure you can use them. the last hardfork was made by satoshi himself, if memory serves moving from .3	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	nobody hence perceived he'd have the authority to do so (and rightly)	[00:55]
thestringpuller	so version .9 is completely broken?	[00:56]
thestringpuller	it seems we are better off writing our own bitcoin client at this point...	[00:56]
thestringpuller	;;google site:trilema.com bitcoind	[00:56]
gribble	Bitcoind : not quite ready for prime time pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: ; Bitcoin was written by the retarded, part II pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: ; It's called Eulora pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.:	[00:56]
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mircea_popescu	thestringpuller more implementations can't hurt.	[00:59]
jborkl	fixed that strangeness with the borders, for some reason WP decided it needed a bunch of
tags	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	but i wouldn't trust anything coming from the powerfully retarded rangers. they tried to get heartbleed into bitcoin, who knows what else they've baked into there we don't know about.	[01:00]
chairman_meow	!jd	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	might as well just deposit your btc with the local court if you swing that way.	[01:00]
assbot	Just-Dice stat: 0 BTC profit, 0.0k BTC invested, 0.00 mio bets, 0.00 mio BTC wagered	[01:00]
jborkl	well, they did give us the hardfork a year ago..	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	it didn't actually fork tho.	[01:01]
Apocalyptic	mighty hearn did	[01:01]
pankkake	I like this in 0.9: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2121	[01:01]
asciilifeform	if i recall, bitcoind has some relatively 'dirty' (changes in recent years) library deps	[01:01]
asciilifeform	berkeley db?	[01:01]
jborkl	well yes you are correct. it went the wrong direction lol	[01:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.04849999 = 0.291 BTC [+] {3}	[01:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.03540005 = 0.1416 BTC [-] {2}	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	yeah bdb	[01:02]
asciilifeform	'you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.'	[01:02]
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jborkl	iirc it was a block that had over 1000 transaction in it	[01:02]
jborkl	and they didnt test that out first to see what happened	[01:02]
jborkl	Slush took a left and everyone else took a right	[01:04]
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chairman_meow	there was summation bug that allowed a transaction to output a truckload of coins	[01:05]
chairman_meow	when it was fixed, the chain was hard forked	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	chairman_meow this in like 2010 tho	[01:06]
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jborkl	mircea, I just went ahead and got a VPS	[01:24]
jborkl	I needed root anyway	[01:24]
benkay	asciilifeform: would protobufs be one of those dirty changes?	[01:25]
asciilifeform	quite a few. dig if you like.	[01:25]
asciilifeform	think like enemy. where would you put the surprise egg?	[01:26]
Mats_cd03	in my butt	[01:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.03504 = 0.1752 BTC [-] {3}	[01:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0485 = 0.2425 BTC [+] {3}	[01:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.08299776 = 0.166 BTC [-] {2}	[01:28]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 33 @ 0.00758175 = 0.2502 BTC [+] {6}	[01:36]
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jurov	http://explo.yt/post/2014/04/10/BitcoinBeware davout mircea_popescu	[01:48]
ozbot	BitcoinBeware - serialized delusions	[01:48]
pankkake	shouldn't it be "I invested" instead of "I have invested"?	[01:49]
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jurov	changed into "I did invest"	[01:50]
jurov	anything else?	[01:50]
pankkake	missing space after December 2013: (always irks me :p)	[01:51]
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nubbins`	found some massive scallops in the freezer	[01:52]
Shakespeare	non-existant	[01:52]
nubbins`	just had an epic dinner with them	[01:52]
Shakespeare	non-existent*	[01:52]
nubbins`	;;google .yt tld	[01:53]
gribble	.yt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Register .YT Domain: Buy TLD Extension/Suffix Mayotte, Registrar ...: ; yt Domains - Domain Who is by 101Domain.com:	[01:53]
nubbins`	well, TIL.	[01:53]
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nubbins`	so my friend was over earlier and he showed me this new book he'd bought	[01:55]
nubbins`	it's an exact reprinting of the first edition of the king james bible	[01:55]
nubbins`	complete with typos, typesetting errors, etc	[01:55]
nubbins`	lots of paragraph marks, entire blank pages, etc	[01:55]
nubbins`	apparently this caused no small amount of consternation when first published	[01:56]
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jurov	thx pankkake	[01:59]
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mike_c	great post jurov. "no one was interested to buy my shares" -> "no one was interested in buying my shares".	[02:03]
jurov	yup	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	btw if we ever actually start a religion, we can have the reincarnation cycle.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	bad doobies have to hash by hand until they find a block	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	that's nirvana	[02:04]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 800 @ 0.00014506 = 0.116 BTC [-] {5}	[02:07]
cgcardona_	Church of Sudo. Cult of the Super User. Order of Root.	[02:07]
cgcardona_	those are some names I've kicked around	[02:07]
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cgcardona_	"In Crypto We Trust" "In the BlockChain We Trust" "We are One on the Web"	[02:08]
cgcardona_	(regarding the 'if we ever actually start a religion' comment)	[02:08]
mike_c	I was looking at armory the other day and they mentioned they were never going to cut the cord with bitcoind for fear of creating a fork.	[02:09]
Mats_cd03	hmm s.mpoe is back to 0.000965	[02:09]
mike_c	it seems having a popular alternate client is actually a good opportunity to write a new client by calculating shit yourself and comparing against what bitcoind does.	[02:09]
mike_c	lots of in-the-wild use, meaning lots of test cases	[02:10]
pankkake	and yet it's now storing a whole separate indexed blockchain	[02:10]
pankkake	so bitcoind isn't used for much except read blocks and push txs	[02:10]
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mike_c	and it doesn't seem hard to process those yourself, and then see if your code would have done the same thing.	[02:11]
mike_c	if no 'virtual forks' for a year, then presto. new reference client.	[02:12]
pankkake	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=343503.0	[02:12]
ozbot	[ANN] Protocoin - a pure Python Bitcoin protocol implementation	[02:12]
dignork	pankkake, there is pretty usefull SPV electrum client, no bitcoind marriage	[02:13]
pankkake	but I suppose the electrum servers rely on bitcoind	[02:13]
dignork	pankkake, yep	[02:13]
jurov	they are dreaming about rebuilding electrum server on sx, but i don't cross my fingers	[02:15]
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jurov	https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/454029472757719040 thanks!	[02:16]
ozbot	Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: Jurov sez beware ...	[02:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11468 @ 0.00096258 = 11.0389 BTC [-] {2}	[02:22]
Duffer1	what do you guys use for IRC?	[02:31]
Duffer1	mirc/xchat?	[02:31]
Azelphur	TIME TO MAKE EVERYONE HATE ME. Pidgin.	[02:32]
Duffer1	"P	[02:32]
Duffer1	:P	[02:32]
dignork	Duffer1, weechat	[02:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.08299776 = 0.166 BTC [-]	[02:34]
thestringpuller	Duffer1: pm	[02:34]
pankkake	irssi, planning to go weechat one day	[02:35]
Duffer1	thanks i'll check them out	[02:36]
Azelphur	In other news, I met some guy today locally because he wants to set up a bitcoin meetup in my area, he's not very techy just interested in coin, he casually mentioned to me he bought a BFL miner and that he plugged the supply into UK mains and blew it and asked if I could help, went and took a look...	[02:42]
Azelphur	turns out he had a BFL SC Single, sitting in the box doing nothing...since November	[02:42]
Azelphur	I still can't believe that just happened	[02:42]
Azelphur	for those not in the know, if he had that running since November, he'd have made about $20k worth of BTC.	[02:43]
Duffer1	did you tell him?	[02:43]
Azelphur	yup	[02:44]
Duffer1	did he cry?	[02:44]
Azelphur	he was just like "Oh well"	[02:44]
Duffer1	poor guy	[02:44]
Azelphur	indeed	[02:45]
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Mats_cd03	Duffer1: irccloud is the tits	[02:46]
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Duffer1	thanks Mats	[02:47]
mod6	Duffer1: irssi++	[02:48]
mod6	used to use BitchX like 15 years ago or more. finally, after years of people telling me about irssi, switched.	[02:49]
Duffer1	i'm tired of browser IRC, time to get a real program	[02:51]
pankkake	xchat is probably the easiest to start with	[02:51]
mod6	yeah, its nice to get a client running on a *nix host, if for no other reason, you can run it in a screen session and then attach/detach	[02:51]
Mats_cd03	i rather like browser irc, irccloud maintains a persistent connection	[02:51]
Mats_cd03	so its basically screen/irssi without any hassle	[02:52]
Duffer1	but i don't irc anywhere other than my desktop anyways though	[02:52]
Mats_cd03	https://public.bn1.livefilestore.com/y2phoIfiYJoK42afiJxQTf_9u5b01-x2I939I7u32nHqsKxuoOKDwJxl70MjD6CjeetX5FMJxUMStObRmMVApTxFRu49kRktBJO90g9OjqGCSo/IRC%20Cloud%20Channel%20Screenshot%201.png?psid=1&rdrts=71711565	[02:52]
mod6	hassle!?	[02:53]
mod6	no hassle with nix+screen+irssi ;)	[02:53]
Mats_cd03	yes, i find using terminal on my phone tedious	[02:53]
mod6	oh. well, lol.	[02:53]
mod6	get a computer?	[02:53]
pankkake	if you're a heavy irc user, then irssi certainly isn't a hassle	[02:53]
Mats_cd03	(irccloud has an android client)	[02:54]
pankkake	it's also my IM client (through minbif)	[02:54]
Mats_cd03	i know im shilling hard here but seriously its good	[02:54]
Duffer1	hehe	[02:54]
mod6	ive used my screen+irssi via connectbot on my phone a bunch. works for reading stuff, but not so great for conversing. better to just read the log instead.	[02:54]
benkay	(erc)	[02:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 3100 @ 0.0001152 = 0.3571 BTC [-] {4}	[02:54]
dignork	screen+weechat over mosh, absolutely amazing!	[02:56]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[02:56]
dignork	are there any other words that assbot is excited about?	[02:57]
phf	benkay: the only client there is	[02:57]
mod6	omg yikes, an emacs client?!	[02:58]
*	mod6 runs	[02:58]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05553388 = 1.1107 BTC [-] {5}	[03:00]
dignork	kryydf, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/IRC_channels , but most of them are kinda empty	[03:00]
dignork	wrong window :)	[03:00]
mod6	one thing that i seem to remember that I didn't like (many many moons ago) about xchat is that if you derp-paste a bunch of stuff into the wrong window, it doens't ask you if you're sure you'd like to do spammy paste.	[03:02]
mod6	irssi does ask, on the other hand.	[03:02]
mod6	CTRL+K to paste spam	[03:02]
dignork	mod6, weechat blocks it too	[03:03]
mod6	ahh coo	[03:03]
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thestringpuller	oh look who finally decides to show up	[03:03]
*	thestringpuller looks at mod6	[03:04]
thestringpuller	lol	[03:04]
mod6	ahh looks reasonable, dignork	[03:04]
mod6	lol thestringpuller	[03:04]
mod6	got my teef drilled. ugh.	[03:04]
mod6	my entire face is numb.	[03:04]
mod6	they loaded me up.	[03:04]
*	mod6 drools	[03:05]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[12:48]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[12:48]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[12:51]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 411.55, Best ask: 411.8, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 411.8, 24 hour volume: 22673.97718376, 24 hour low: 400.11, 24 hour high: 453.96, 24 hour vwap: 423.36399149	[12:51]
dexX7	^ i guess china banned bitcoin again	[12:53]
fluffypony	go Australia: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/health/nhmrc-rule-homeopathic-remedies-useless-for-human-health/story-fni0diac-1226878166107	[13:05]
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Mats_cd03	geez, the price keeps correcting each time i pick up more btc ;(	[13:32]
dexX7	before or after you bought? ;)	[13:32]
Mats_cd03	after hence the tear	[13:32]
dexX7	meh	[13:32]
Mats_cd03	im being punished for not using -otc	[13:33]
dexX7	how would -otc help in this case?	[13:33]
truffles	cheaper	[13:34]
Mats_cd03	it wouldn't, it would just be mildly cheaper	[13:34]
dexX7	ah	[13:34]
Apocalyptic	cheaper ?	[13:35]
Apocalyptic	otc usual rates are quite above the market price	[13:35]
truffles	u sure?	[13:36]
Apocalyptic	heh	[13:36]
Apocalyptic	i'm an op there and frequent trader, so yeah pretty muc	[13:36]
Apocalyptic	*much	[13:36]
truffles	so u know that coin guy pfff	[13:36]
Apocalyptic	I do	[13:36]
truffles	let me quote u what happened	[13:36]
truffles	we were talking about pool, and how he can get 1k per game easy etc	[13:37]
truffles	so obv he's some kinda pool shark/baller	[13:37]
Mats_cd03	;;tell benkay having adventures in C? me too we're bros	[13:37]
gribble	Error: I haven't seen benkay, I'll let you do the telling.	[13:37]
Apocalyptic	;;later tell	[13:38]
gribble	(later tell ) -- Tells the next time is in seen. can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.	[13:38]
Mats_cd03	senkq	[13:38]
truffles	tell?	[13:38]
truffles	oh he failed nm	[13:38]
Mats_cd03	Apocalyptic: oh... i was under the impression it was	[13:39]
truffles	truffles> why is coingenuity on the phone with banks?	[13:40]
truffles	truffles: because banks are banning bitcoin	[13:40]
truffles	try sending money to an exchange right now ;)	[13:40]
truffles	if ure into btc why do u still hold onto bank accounts..	[13:40]
truffles	truffles: i run one of the biggest bitcoin companies	[13:40]
truffles	well i hope ure on there all day	[13:40]
truffles	* ChanServ sets mode: +o coingenuity	[13:40]
truffles	* You were kicked by coingenuity (you're)	[13:40]
truffles	cry about it more plz	[13:40]
truffles	<@coingenuity> truffles: i'm trying to warn you to behave	[13:40]
truffles	u mean to stroke ur ego?	[13:40]
truffles	<@coingenuity> really, dude	[13:40]
truffles	oh look at u, u have "power"	[13:40]
truffles	* You were kicked by coingenuity (come back when you can behave)	[13:40]
truffles	chat spame	[13:40]
truffles	so then i in #bitcoin i was like "why are u such a bitch" i think im banned there too	[13:40]
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Apocalyptic	maybe if you would write properly it wouldn't have escalated that far	[13:41]
truffles	haha	[13:41]
Apocalyptic	cause as far as I can see that's what the first kick was for	[13:41]
truffles	if spelling gets u kicks heh	[13:41]
Duffer1	truffles truffles: i run one of the biggest bitcoin companies >> wtf is coingenuity?	[13:41]
truffles	some baller	[13:41]
truffles	mod on otc	[13:41]
Apocalyptic	Duffer1, he's running coinabul	[13:42]
truffles	i think he's on some kinda power trip ya know	[13:42]
Duffer1	isee	[13:42]
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truffles	"Coinabul has been ripping people off for a while." shit no wonder he can drop 1k a game	[13:44]
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kakobrekla	power trip? more like acid trip	[13:47]
Apocalyptic	kako, you have some history with coingenuity ?	[13:47]
BingoBoingo	Power Acid!	[13:47]
kakobrekla	i dont think i do	[13:48]
truffles	not surprised he's not a reputable guy	[13:48]
truffles	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149253.msg2876339#msg2876339	[13:49]
ozbot	SCAM - Coinabul owe me 81btc	[13:49]
Diablo-D3	so Im signing up with bitpay	[13:50]
Diablo-D3	so I can accept bitcoin	[13:50]
Diablo-D3	I dunno, after all the years Ive been in the Bitcoin community, I just can't turn my back on everyone	[13:51]
truffles	bitcoin for?	[13:51]
truffles	thought u cashed out and now rolling in money piles	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/mpexrfc1/ << this is mpex' first rfc	[13:54]
ozbot	MPEx.RFC.1 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	so please to read and comment	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 so you're averaging your cost down :D	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	if spelling gets u kicks heh << dude i thought you were the english expert.	[13:56]
truffles	not on the internet	[13:56]
truffles	pretty sure id best u in something written in english for sure	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	on what, vellum ?	[13:57]
truffles	non pc topic	[13:57]
truffles	bring all ur minions too	[13:58]
truffles	prob not if one is english prof	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	mon minions font minette	[13:59]
pigeons	retro link of the day http://ripper234.com/p/why-i-trust-patrick-harnett/	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	lol	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	poor mr gross.	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	http://ripper234.com/p/mt-gox-is-probably-insolvent/	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	has learned so little over so long.	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	http://ripper234.com/p/why-i-trust-patrick-harnett/comment-page-1/#comment-33568 < with #assets link too.	[14:06]
dexX7	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92279.0 "not a scam but failed business"	[14:08]
ozbot	Why I used to trust Patrick Harnett	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	oh i c.	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	the failed business of having lied through your teeth accidentally for great justice.	[14:08]
dexX7	last edit nov 17 2012 though	[14:09]
taub	MisterE> taub: it's going to be like this until the 15th passes	[14:09]
taub	whats on the 15th?	[14:09]
dexX7	china finally bans btc	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	mod6 dignork only noobs want windows ok cancel boxes! i want my client to damn well do what i tell it to.	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	keeps me on my toes.	[14:09]
pigeons	if you dont want pirate risk, i can tell you its not with pirate and pay you less	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	pigeons in a meta-sense, everyone that fucked up so far has been fucked by the same thing : failure to take btc seriously enough. be it the derps that still don't have any, harping about how it's just a fad and quoting tired beanie babies examples,	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	or on the other extreme patrick harnetts and other herps figuring "oh, it's jsut a small little thing, i'm much bigger than it so should be ok"	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	the whole spectrum seems to reduce to "didn't take it seriously enough"	[14:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2584 @ 0.00014939 = 0.386 BTC [+] {2}	[14:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22355 @ 0.00096159 = 21.4963 BTC [-]	[14:16]
bounce	no definite answer, but a few possibilities: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/10/pgp_email_leak_mystery_snowden_greenwald/	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	jborkl: We know how many btc there will be next year << he has it, btc supply is extremely well know. the function that stabilises the dishing out of btc over time has been EXTREMELY efficient so far, in spite of massive hashpower changes. i would say btc supply side is the best known of any material in history. including gold, which used to hold that distinction (which was a key to its monetization)	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	bounce i myself am happy with the "clueless woman, learned to use gpg last week, does not quite grok what keys are or how they work"	[14:22]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea how come they still give diplomas to lawyers and journalists that aren't fluent with gpg since their sophomore year, but hey.	[14:22]
bounce	because formalities and actual achievements are quite disconnected	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	mike_c: for instance, mp has a bunch of coins. they are not supply because they are not for sale. << they are supply even if they are not for sale. review Wickard v. Filburn :D	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2014#612648 << still empty log lines ?! kakobrekla omg	[14:25]
ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log	[14:25]
truffles	maybe he's busy	[14:26]
Apocalyptic	he's editing the shit out of it	[14:26]
truffles	lol	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	lol	[14:27]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: wrt not taking it seriously - not sure about other countries, but we have a new (2009) act here that says that a director will be liable for losses suffered by the company as a result of the director having taken or failed to act against certain unauthorised or unlawful actions and situations	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	cazalla the life of the p t barnum promoter of roadside attractions is a precarious one.	[14:27]
kakobrekla	http://shrani.si/f/2o/J/Rgy8g6Y/log.png	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony pretty sure that was the case before 2009, both in common and civil law jurisdictions.	[14:28]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: not in South Africa	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla o wow he just pasted teh empty ? nm then	[14:28]
fluffypony	was pretty much the wild west here	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony ah ah, ok.	[14:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00096168 = 43.8526 BTC [+]	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	actually eulorum.org doesn't even load.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	mikaeldice: Though I kind of dislike the more recent releases of ubuntu << word.	[14:31]
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wywialm	hello all	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	[\] i am here.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	hi wy	[14:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00096159 = 4.5195 BTC [-]	[14:33]
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mircea_popescu	aww dub why so sour ? noobs taste good.	[14:34]
Mats_cd03	mircea_popescu is in high spirits today	[14:39]
Mats_cd03	did you get an afternoon bj	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	i just woke up.	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	keonne: #bitcoin-assets is like a second job << first job for most people here.	[14:41]
truffles	so ure a morning person eh	[14:42]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.58 = 9.28 BTC [-] {3}	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	for some definitions of morning.	[14:43]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 24 @ 0.0056675 = 0.136 BTC [-] {2}	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	MisterE guy is definitely lying. had he made that reddit post BEFORE having tried to steal the data rather than as a coverup afterthought, all'd hgave been well.	[14:44]
truffles	some ppl r like zombies in the morning	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	yes, but those aren't the people that never woke up with a timer in their life.	[14:46]
truffles	orly	[14:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.60950995 = 13.4092 BTC [+] {9}	[15:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.61903286 = 24.7613 BTC [+] {11}	[15:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.62 = 6.82 BTC [+]	[15:11]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.610004 = 6.1 BTC [-] {2}	[15:20]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.60002145 = 1.8001 BTC [-] {2}	[15:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.60000001 = 1.2 BTC [-]	[15:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.6 = 2.4 BTC [-]	[15:27]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7861 @ 0.00096168 = 7.5598 BTC [+]	[15:38]
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thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: you still around?	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	ya	[15:43]
thestringpuller	from trilema: MPEx webservers will have to keep a copy of the database. This is practically unavoidable (I think) because of two things : you.d like to be able to issue account statements for customers when they want, rather than when you get around to itviii and you.d like to pipe trade data into other services (like twitter, assbot on #bitcoin-assets etc).	[15:44]
thestringpuller	does this mean that each webserver holds trade data?	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	pretty much	[15:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2500 @ 0.00009082 = 0.2271 BTC [+] {3}	[15:46]
thestringpuller	oh for STAT	[15:48]
thestringpuller	i see...	[15:48]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.05565641 = 0.2783 BTC [+] {4}	[15:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05567526 = 0.167 BTC [+] {2}	[15:51]
nubbins`	truffles, speeling = improtant	[15:53]
nubbins`	;;later tell mike_c cats? now I'M signing up for multiple accounts :D	[15:54]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[15:54]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: inexplainably is, inexplicably, not a word	[15:54]
fluffypony	that's unexplendifirous	[15:56]
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nubbins`	i think the word you're looking for is cromulent	[15:58]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: +1 for lost-key safeguard process, that's clever	[15:58]
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kakobrekla	ok lel	[16:11]
kakobrekla	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563303.0	[16:11]
ozbot	Invest Bitcoins due to launch shortly!	[16:11]
fluffypony	shut up and take my money!	[16:12]
Mats_cd03	does gpg timestamping continue to be an issue?	[16:12]
Apocalyptic	seriously...	[16:13]
Apocalyptic	"i don't have any idea about wtf i'm doing"	[16:13]
kakobrekla	me neither	[16:13]
pankkake	GPG puts timestamps in signatures?	[16:13]
nubbins`	"The investment is more for people who want to safeguard BTC at the current prices"	[16:14]
nubbins`	so it's just like cashing out, but instead of cashing out into your local currency, you cash out into indian government bonds	[16:15]
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nubbins`	sounds like a win-win-win	[16:15]
Mats_cd03	pankkake: http://trilema.com/2014/mpexrfc1/	[16:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00096168 = 10.6746 BTC [+]	[16:15]
Mats_cd03	> Because of inherited weakness from pgp’s own timestamping, there is currently no reliable way to resolve time disputes : the client can very well present his own version (as included in the signed material), MPEx will present its own version (as reflected by when it has seen the order) and no further progress can be made (for which reason MPEx’	[16:16]
Mats_cd03	determination is final).	[16:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00096168 = 6.4433 BTC [+]	[16:16]
nubbins`	wait a minute, i know why i'm so bleary	[16:17]
*	nubbins` makes coffee	[16:17]
Mats_cd03	only pakistani govt bonds are more safe	[16:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.05566999 = 0.1113 BTC [-]	[16:19]
pankkake	and don't confuse them with pankkistani bonds	[16:19]
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Mats_cd03	weak	[16:19]
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nubbins`	http://www.tradingeconomics.com/france/government-bond-yield	[16:20]
ozbot	France Government Bond 10Y \| Actual Data \| Forecasts \| Calendar	[16:20]
nubbins`	yup	[16:20]
nubbins`	;D	[16:20]
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danielpbarron	"please learn to read. this coin is about raising awareness for rap music and rap victims. it's not about promoting rap. why would anyone do this? you're a sick person."	[16:26]
pankkake	what	[16:27]
truffles	tupac?	[16:27]
danielpbarron	a stupid altcoin, but i think the OP is trolling	[16:27]
danielpbarron	"yes. a launch. we have a coin, a website, a twitter, facebook, g+ profile, a windows wallet, no real concept and of course no innovation. everything you need for a great coin. this coin has muy potentialones."	[16:27]
pankkake	to the hood!	[16:28]
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danielpbarron	made me laugh out loud when I read "rap victims"	[16:28]
MisterE	maybe it was typo	[16:28]
fluffypony	"muy potentialones"	[16:29]
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truffles	pantalones	[16:30]
fluffypony	danielpbarron: definitely trolling	[16:30]
fluffypony	I mean, it's called RAPe	[16:30]
fluffypony	"Rap(e)Coin: the rap coin that's not about rape because rape is bad and rap isn't"	[16:30]
kakobrekla	lol	[16:30]
danielpbarron	lolol	[16:30]
kakobrekla	is this one of the Rap-e-ghosts thingy	[16:31]
nubbins`	better get ultimate scammer rg on the line to find out	[16:31]
fluffypony	LOL kakobrekla	[16:31]
nubbins`	;;rated rg	[16:31]
gribble	You rated user rg on Wed Feb 26 10:45:04 2014, with a rating of -2, and supplied these additional notes: tried to stiff me on payment for some design work.	[16:31]
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danielpbarron	what's the deal with trezor? I'm gonna assume it's not as good as cardano will be?	[16:32]
danielpbarron	or should I not even be comparing these things?	[16:33]
kakobrekla	its good to asume its not even close to being the same thing	[16:33]
kakobrekla	assume	[16:33]
fluffypony	if you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME	[16:33]
fluffypony	du-du-dish	[16:33]
danielpbarron	i guess what I mean is, ... ultimately this is about securing BTC right? is trezor any good at that?	[16:34]
kakobrekla	cardano does not hold bitcoin private keys	[16:35]
danielpbarron	from what I understand, a lot of the cardano research is getting the right hardware RNG; is trezor up to the same standard?	[16:35]
kakobrekla	as to rng on trezor	[16:36]
kakobrekla	they use deterministic wallets afaik	[16:36]
danielpbarron	does that mean the user programs it?	[16:37]
kakobrekla	you supply the 12 or whatever words to make the seed from which all the future bitcoin key pairs are generated	[16:37]
danielpbarron	if I can type in the 12 words somehow, that's pretty cool	[16:38]
danielpbarron	otherwise, I don't think I can trust that little thing to make a secure enough seed	[16:39]
kakobrekla	its cool until it isnt.	[16:39]
danielpbarron	yeah it makes me suspicious when everyone is hyping it up and it's still on pre-order; sounds a lot like BFL	[16:39]
danielpbarron	"give us BTC today and maybe we'll ship you a product next year"	[16:40]
kakobrekla	thats trezor	[16:40]
danielpbarron	right, that's what I mean	[16:40]
kakobrekla	bfl is "give us btc and fuck you."	[16:40]
danielpbarron	lol	[16:40]
pLambert	has BitVPS buyout been discussed here yet? A big FU to all the shareholders	[16:41]
kakobrekla	what buyout?	[16:41]
pLambert	they are buying back shares based on the past couple dividends	[16:41]
Mats_cd03	3btc is just a ridiculous cost imo	[16:42]
kakobrekla	dunno havent been following that story	[16:42]
pLambert	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141262.msg6151254#msg6151254	[16:42]
ozbot	[BTC-TC] BitVPS	[16:42]
Mats_cd03	im not stingy, but its unnecessary	[16:42]
danielpbarron	2 BTC is ridic for an aluminium upgrade, Mats_cd03	[16:42]
danielpbarron	Mats_cd03: I don't mind it costing a lot, but it's insulting to say that using aliminum costs 2 BTC more than using plastic	[16:43]
kakobrekla	>>I invested 700 dollars, and you think I can be content with your forced 20 dollars buy-back?	[16:43]
kakobrekla	I would have been less offended if you had just said "Fuck you, I'm keeping your money."	[16:43]
kakobrekla	--	[16:43]
kakobrekla	lel	[16:43]
fluffypony	what have the dividends been like over the period? I take it not enough to cover the original investment?	[16:44]
danielpbarron	I am the issuer of the #5 ranked asset in counterparty :D	[16:48]
fluffypony	wd danielpbarron	[16:49]
pLambert	They keep saying "we are investing in more hardware, so dividends are low this month", then for the buyback they ignore all the hardware they just bought	[16:49]
danielpbarron	ty, fluffypony; I've got the market cap up to a record breaking 0.52 XCP	[16:50]
pLambert	arij: want to comment on this?	[16:50]
danielpbarron	pLambert: is this a mining company?	[16:50]
pLambert	BitVPS is a hosting company	[16:50]
danielpbarron	oh	[16:50]
pankkake	danielpbarron: is it something real?	[16:51]
pLambert	imagine if Warren Buffet wanted to buy shares of his company back based onthe dividends: $0.00 to you, shareholders	[16:51]
danielpbarron	pankkake: sorta, I backed my asset with a currency from a video game	[16:51]
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pankkake	bitvps was profit shares though	[16:52]
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danielpbarron	I'm doing it just for fun; trying out the protocol	[16:53]
benkay	thestringpuller: ping	[16:54]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.054988 = 0.3299 BTC [-]	[17:05]
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benkay	last bitvps statement was december?	[17:17]
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danielpbarron	what's the most influential group of bitcoiners? the devs, the miners, or whatever you call the individuals who own a lot of BTC	[17:34]
benkay	some in this channel would hold it to be this channel	[17:35]
benkay	miners are influential in that txns that adhere to 0.6 rules will probably always get relayed	[17:35]
pankkake	define influential	[17:35]
benkay	devs, unles you're talking about conformal, don't really do much other than implement dirty code into bitcoin-qt	[17:36]
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pankkake	transaction/network wise, both miners and public nodes. devs, nothing really, as it is with all open source software	[17:36]
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danielpbarron	i've been tempted into thinking it was the devs and then the miners that had all the power	[17:37]
danielpbarron	but now I'm leaning to that other group, the group i'm not sure what to call	[17:37]
benkay	"powerful"'s a good start.	[17:38]
danielpbarron	"holders" ?	[17:38]
danielpbarron	venture capitalists? or just capitalists?	[17:38]
benkay	shrug	[17:38]
benkay	power comes in many forms.	[17:38]
benkay	sometimes it looks like btc, sometimes it looks like hashes...	[17:38]
danielpbarron	pankkake is right about devs, it's open source stuff	[17:39]
danielpbarron	so then why not the miners? and keep in mind I mean the pool operators, not the guy in his basement	[17:39]
pankkake	pool operators are highly dependent on their users, as it is very easy to migrate	[17:39]
danielpbarron	yep	[17:40]
benkay	everyone forced to more or less play the same way	[17:40]
pankkake	but, at least for now, miners don't really care about pool transaction policies	[17:40]
danielpbarron	they sorta do, or at least, they do when they are also a dev	[17:40]
danielpbarron	i can think of 1 example	[17:40]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7500 @ 0.00013209 = 0.9907 BTC [-] {14}	[17:45]
benkay	care to share, danielpbarron ?	[17:45]
danielpbarron	what? which dev is also a miner?	[17:46]
danielpbarron	is that not common knowledge?	[17:46]
benkay	oh, i thought you had an example of someone who cares about txn rules	[17:47]
benkay	and like maybe why and some other context	[17:47]
benkay	high hopes :(	[17:47]
danielpbarron	i do	[17:47]
danielpbarron	at the risk of starting the whole argument over again, the context is counterparty / mastercoin and the OP_RETURN controversy	[17:48]
benkay	oh sounds popcorny	[17:48]
danielpbarron	very	[17:48]
benkay	what is this controversy?	[17:48]
danielpbarron	counterparty stores its data in the Blockchain and the devs don't like this	[17:49]
danielpbarron	that's the tl;dr	[17:49]
benkay	what's the controversy over op_return?	[17:49]
pankkake	storage is a cost, and no one's rewarded for storing	[17:49]
danielpbarron	OP_RETURN is a place to store extra data in a transaction	[17:49]
pankkake	that's why transactions should be as small as possible	[17:50]
danielpbarron	ya, what pankkake said	[17:50]
pankkake	I wonder if I can easily make my public nodes stop relaying OP_RETURN :)	[17:50]
danielpbarron	full nodes should get most of the transaction fees, but they get nothing	[17:50]
danielpbarron	anyway my point is, there is controversy over transaction rules, so miners have so influence in that regard	[17:51]
benkay	whoa you can store data in the blockchain without paying?	[17:51]
danielpbarron	benkay: sorta	[17:51]
benkay	do elaborate i'd be much obliged	[17:51]
pankkake	miners get paid, not "storers"	[17:51]
danielpbarron	benkay: you pay, but the payment doesn't go to those actually doing the heavy lifting	[17:51]
benkay	oh	[17:51]
benkay	eh fuck 'em	[17:51]
benkay	blockchain's a nightmare anyways	[17:51]
benkay	miners get paid right?	[17:52]
benkay	that's all i care about.	[17:52]
pankkake	for me, bitcoin is terabytes of bandwith per month - I don't mind as it's almost free, but don't make the madness worse	[17:52]
nubbins`	http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/morgentaler-abortion-clinic-in-fredericton-to-close-1.2604535	[17:52]
ozbot	Morgentaler abortion clinic in Fredericton to close - New Brunswick - CBC News	[17:52]
danielpbarron	yeah but they don't need the payment; they don't mine for profit anyway	[17:52]
danielpbarron	hey some good news!	[17:52]
benkay	miners don't mine for profit?	[17:52]
benkay	news to me.	[17:52]
danielpbarron	i believe miners mine for network control	[17:52]
jurov	pankkake meant nonminer nodes	[17:52]
benkay	the state sponsored ones definitely	[17:53]
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jurov	i don't mind a terabyte per month,too but 10TB or more... um	[17:53]
danielpbarron	some individuals profit i guess, if they get really cheap electricity and make their own boards	[17:53]
benkay	this is one of those things about bitcoin. staging on the blockchain is just going to get more and more painfully expensive.	[17:53]
benkay	staying*	[17:53]
pankkake	yeah I think I'm capped at 6TB	[17:53]
benkay	either you'll pay for the privilege or you won't.	[17:54]
benkay	end of story.	[17:54]
danielpbarron	benkay: what do you mean "staying on the blockchain?"	[17:54]
Apocalyptic	how so benkay ?	[17:54]
benkay	staying up to date	[17:54]
Apocalyptic	the maximum potential blockchain growth rate is well known	[17:54]
danielpbarron	storage space is trivial	[17:54]
Apocalyptic	thanks for the block size limit	[17:54]
danielpbarron	the issue isn't hard drive space	[17:54]
Apocalyptic	it's just some gigs/year	[17:54]
benkay	we're talking about the mem pool, though, right?	[17:55]
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danielpbarron	hard drive space is only an issue to those trying to take a principled stand on not storing content to which they personally object	[17:55]
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benkay	txns in flight is the topic, though, correct?	[17:55]
Apocalyptic	we're talking about the mem pool, though, right? // you can choose not to query peers for tx data	[17:55]
Apocalyptic	and only get blocks I think	[17:56]
benkay	so do that	[17:56]
danielpbarron	benkay: because OP_RETURN is too small to store counterparty data, they use multi-sig addresses instead, and that uses up memory	[17:56]
benkay	memory where for whom in what part of the process	[17:56]
danielpbarron	full nodes	[17:56]
danielpbarron	full nodes have to keep those addresses in memory as outputs that might get spent in future transactions	[17:57]
benkay	when do they need that? when validating a new block?	[17:58]
danielpbarron	when validating transactions	[17:58]
danielpbarron	full nodes are not miners and miners are not full nodes	[17:58]
Apocalyptic	he knows that	[17:58]
danielpbarron	there might be some overlap	[17:58]
Apocalyptic	but full nodes don't need mempool data for validating blocks	[17:58]
benkay	so take a counterparty transaction	[17:58]
danielpbarron	i might be explaining some technical details incorrectly; i'm not a dev	[17:58]
benkay	has it been confirmed yet?	[17:58]
benkay	let's tell a little story and try to work through this	[17:59]
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benkay	start with a counterparty txn. is this thing in flight or has it confirmed?	[17:59]
dexX7	1. metacoins and the utxo set: http://i.imgur.com/c9mpd8h.png, 2. what is way more "avoidable" than multisigs is the creation of multiple unspent outputs "to have free outputs ready" (@ xcp) x_x	[17:59]
danielpbarron	i'm on the side of counterparty if I had to choose, i think the decentralized exchange is a great idea	[18:01]
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thestringpuller	danielpbarron: oh boo another glbse investor	[18:02]
danielpbarron	i never used that site	[18:02]
benkay	he's underwriting, thestringpuller	[18:02]
thestringpuller	exchanges will always be centralized things, there can be multiple exchanges	[18:02]
benkay	thestringpuller: ping ping ping ping ping	[18:02]
danielpbarron	i think there is room for both centralized and decentralized	[18:02]
thestringpuller	but each excahnge is centralized as you will always trust the issuer	[18:02]
dexX7	benkay: think of "let's create new transaction types and coins, encode the transaction information and store it on the blockchain as pubkeys in multisig transaction outputs"	[18:02]
thestringpuller	you will always have to trust the issuer*	[18:02]
danielpbarron	i get that, thestringpuller	[18:03]
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Apocalyptic	oh "decentralized exchange" idea again ?	[18:03]
*	Apocalyptic grabs some popcorn	[18:03]
danielpbarron	s/idea/reality/g	[18:04]
thestringpuller	i feel a decentralized exchange would be littered with scams	[18:05]
danielpbarron	so?	[18:05]
danielpbarron	just like everywhere else	[18:05]
thestringpuller	so you want an exchange for scams?	[18:05]
danielpbarron	you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater?	[18:05]
fluffypony	http://revicharger.com	[18:05]
benkay	hang on this topic is stupid and boring and you're all stupid and boring for engaging in it	[18:05]
fluffypony	that's actually quite clever	[18:05]
danielpbarron	Bitcoin has enabled scams, so what?	[18:05]
thestringpuller	s.dice was teh closest thing to a scam no mpex...	[18:05]
thestringpuller	every other play exchange has had multiple scams...	[18:05]
danielpbarron	s.dice was a scam?	[18:06]
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benkay	i want to know more about these memory requirements imposed by mastercoin	[18:06]
thestringpuller	like the ratio of scam to actual businesses was too damn high	[18:06]
danielpbarron	from what I read, S.DICE was managed very well	[18:06]
danielpbarron	benkay: why mastercoin? counterparty is live and working	[18:06]
benkay	counterparty whatever pedant	[18:06]
benkay	i lose track of all the colored coin implementations	[18:07]
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danielpbarron	well, I'm not 100% behind the DEX; I understand the arguments against it, and it's not the end of my world if the devs figure out a way to stop it	[18:08]
kanzure	to be even more pedantic, counterparty isn't a colored coin implementation	[18:08]
kanzure	(don't kill me)	[18:08]
benkay	so you can't possibly be telling me that a full node needs to hold the whole bc in memory to do its job	[18:08]
benkay	is that so?	[18:08]
benkay	<-- does not run nodes	[18:08]
dexX7	the complaint was the amount of unspent outputs/utxo bloat created by those transactions - the argument fails because those unspent outputs are actually spendable and spent frequently	[18:08]
kanzure	the counterparty reference implementation requires a full bitcoin node with -txindex enabled	[18:09]
kanzure	so often this means reindexing the blockchain for nodes that haven't been using -txindex	[18:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11111 @ 0.00096168 = 10.6852 BTC [+]	[18:09]
kanzure	uh i wonder if -txindex is the right parameter. hrm. it's the one about indexing.	[18:09]
kanzure	anywho then the counterparty server sends getrawtransaction messages over rpc to the bitcoin node for every transaction since the burn period began	[18:10]
dexX7	you don't need to hold everything in memory, but there is a database with all unspent outputs. more outputs = delayed lookup	[18:10]
fluffypony	lol	[18:10]
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fluffypony	my wife is talking about going to the US at some stage	[18:11]
fluffypony	"we must go to all 50 states. Except Alaska. Alaska isn't going to be nice."	[18:11]
danielpbarron	well i've seen plenty of individuals storing data in other ways, like using the last 4 or 5 decimal places of a balance to encode data	[18:11]
danielpbarron	the US kinda sucks; if you aren't here already, don't come	[18:12]
danielpbarron	not worth the risk of possibly not being allowed to leave	[18:12]
truffles	get items stolen at tsa	[18:12]
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danielpbarron	get poisoned with crappy food, drugged water, groped by the "authorities," wealth confiscated because you probably sold drugs to get it	[18:13]
danielpbarron	or you're a terrorist	[18:13]
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danielpbarron	honest individuals don't need money; Big Brother feeds them	[18:13]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[18:14]
fluffypony	danielpbarron: she meant for holiday, we would never move there	[18:14]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 398.55, Best ask: 399.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 400.0, 24 hour volume: 27083.22463861, 24 hour low: 398.55, 24 hour high: 446.97, 24 hour vwap: 417.472358929	[18:14]
danielpbarron	fluffypony: i know what you meant; don't do it	[18:14]
danielpbarron	for all of the above reasons	[18:14]
truffles	he'll have a great time let him go	[18:14]
danielpbarron	heh ok; just speaking from my own experience	[18:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.58002 = 8.7003 BTC [-] {4}	[18:14]
fluffypony	lol	[18:14]
fluffypony	the food is crappy	[18:14]
fluffypony	when I said that on Reddit ages ago I got attacked by apologists	[18:15]
Apocalyptic	dat dive	[18:15]
danielpbarron	there are ways to get non-crappy food but you have to know what you're doing	[18:15]
danielpbarron	and you probably have to avoid some taxes to afford it	[18:15]
fluffypony	danielpbarron: yeah that's what I figured	[18:16]
fluffypony	oh look, welcome to the magical 400.00	[18:16]
danielpbarron	:O	[18:16]
danielpbarron	bitcoinaverage says 389	[18:17]
danielpbarron	damn	[18:17]
taub	its on	[18:17]
fluffypony	ouch	[18:17]
fluffypony	yeah just took a nose dive down	[18:17]
danielpbarron	i guess those peeps who were bugging me to buy the other day are happy now	[18:17]
benkay	no demand :)	[18:17]
benkay	bitcoin's a scam	[18:17]
fluffypony	benkay: I thought it was a ponzi scheme?	[18:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00096241 = 26.37 BTC [+] {2}	[18:18]
kanzure	i'm making a collection of overly-enthusiastic claims about bitcoin	[18:19]
kanzure	i'm open to suggestions for what content to include	[18:19]
fluffypony	kanzure: this is GOOD news!	[18:20]
kanzure	i want the stuff that will still found funny even if bitcoin does eat up the world	[18:20]
kanzure	like this one: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/fanaticism/if-i-was-chairman-of-the-fed.yaml	[18:20]
danielpbarron	lol	[18:20]
danielpbarron	"If I was Chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve, the most powerful central bank in the world, I would be buying bitcoin like mad."	[18:21]
danielpbarron	LIKE MAD, YO	[18:21]
fluffypony	almost buttcoins http://i.imgur.com/6GhqT4q.jpg	[18:21]
nubbins`	http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/patrick-brazeau-suspended-senator-arrested-in-gatineau-1.2605159	[18:21]
ozbot	Patrick Brazeau, suspended senator, arrested in Gatineau - Ottawa - CBC News	[18:21]
kanzure	personally i think all bitcointalk.org posts should start with "Yo,"	[18:21]
danielpbarron	haha i've probably been on that train, looks like MTA	[18:21]
nubbins`	from law-school dropout to canadian senator to strip club manager	[18:22]
nubbins`	GREAT SENATE PICK, HARPER	[18:22]
kanzure	what's wrong with running a strip club?	[18:22]
nubbins`	nothing	[18:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00096159 = 17.0201 BTC [-]	[18:23]
kanzure	oh i see, i should have asked what's wrong with the senate =)	[18:23]
nubbins`	EVERYTHING	[18:23]
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nubbins`	seriously. the senate. highest judicial body in the country. guy gets fired for being a shitbag, and the best job he can scrounge together after that is putting together the weekly schedule at the fuckin Bare Fax	[18:23]
nubbins`	almost makes you think he shouldn't have been appointed to the senate in the first place	[18:24]
danielpbarron	"The banks would be saved because people would be borrowing as much money as possible in order to buy bitcoin." <-- ...	[18:24]
thestringpuller	bet closed	[18:24]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[18:24]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 390.0, Best ask: 390.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 390.0, 24 hour volume: 30204.17198800, 24 hour low: 382.7, 24 hour high: 446.97, 24 hour vwap: 413.134967346	[18:24]
kanzure	danielpbarron: this is the sort of hyper-fanatacism that i am seeking	[18:24]
danielpbarron	one-of-a-kind stupidity there	[18:24]
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BingoBoingo	;;ticker	[18:29]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 385.52, Best ask: 389.82, Bid-ask spread: 4.30000, Last trade: 385.51, 24 hour volume: 30635.18837803, 24 hour low: 382.7, 24 hour high: 446.97, 24 hour vwap: 412.975167632	[18:29]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 101 @ 0.05454506 = 5.5091 BTC [-] {3}	[18:42]
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ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 10000	[19:00]
gribble	Bitstamp \| A market order to buy 10000 bitcoins right now would take 4496710.4412 USD and would take the last price up to 520.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 449.6710 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 232.9129 seconds	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 25000	[19:00]
gribble	Bitstamp \| This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 24098.515 bitcoins, for a total of 17899251.1321 USD and take the price to 99999.9900. \| Data vintage: 0.0374 seconds	[19:00]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 3.14857344 BTC to 7`663 shares, 41088 satoshi per share	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 15000	[19:00]
gribble	Bitstamp \| A market order to buy 15000 bitcoins right now would take 7503392.7506 USD and would take the last price up to 655.6800 USD, resulting in an average price of 500.2262 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 18.2787 seconds	[19:00]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 20000	[19:01]
gribble	Bitstamp \| A market order to buy 20000 bitcoins right now would take 11195529.8825 USD and would take the last price up to 849.9800 USD, resulting in an average price of 559.7765 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 25.9547 seconds	[19:01]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 22500	[19:01]
gribble	Bitstamp \| A market order to buy 22500 bitcoins right now would take 13607783.7198 USD and would take the last price up to 1075.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 604.7904 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 45.7563 seconds	[19:01]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 23500	[19:01]
gribble	Bitstamp \| A market order to buy 23500 bitcoins right now would take 14785226.8837 USD and would take the last price up to 1299.9800 USD, resulting in an average price of 629.1586 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 59.7878 seconds	[19:01]
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ThickAsThieves	so about 24k coins on the market	[19:03]
benkay	http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303873604579492364231819656?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303873604579492364231819656.html	[19:03]
ozbot	Weak Chinese Trade Data Cloud Growth Hopes - WSJ.com	[19:03]
dvsdude	Stephen Colbert will succeed David Letterman as host of 'The Late Show'	[19:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00096323 = 12.233 BTC [+] {2}	[19:04]
ThickAsThieves	that works	[19:05]
ThickAsThieves	letterman is boring as shit	[19:05]
ThickAsThieves	too bad theyll suck the sould out of colbert	[19:05]
benkay	colbert and stewart's shows are utterly inane	[19:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.05372855 = 0.3761 BTC [-] {3}	[19:06]
MisterE	;;ticker --market all	[19:10]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 394.01, vol: 32951.86032124 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 390.1, vol: 22796.91906 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 392.749, vol: 30240.18749975 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 129.0017673 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 393.274998, vol: 7320.90170000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 404.94534, vol: 10.79592654 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 391.7544, vol: 226.91088511 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[19:10]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1817 @ 0.00007206 = 0.1309 BTC [-] {3}	[19:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0520112 = 0.156 BTC [-]	[19:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0520112 = 0.104 BTC [-]	[19:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0520112 = 0.104 BTC [-]	[19:33]
BingoBoingo	!t h neobeeq	[19:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:NEOBEEQ] 1D: 0.00006400 / 9.041E-5 / 0.00013699 (62600 shares, 5.65942599 BTC), 7D: 0.00000001 / 0.00014715 / 0.00045000 (549731 shares, 80.89403744 BTC), 30D: 0.00000001 / 0.0012483 / 0.00439999 (873212 shares, 1090.03105206 BTC)	[19:39]
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benkay	!t h rent	[19:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00750000 / 0.0075 / 0.00750000 (100 shares, 0.75000000 BTC), 7D: 0.00750000 / 0.0075 / 0.00750000 (2267 shares, 17.00250000 BTC), 30D: 0.00510111 / 0.00700671 / 0.00750000 (27302 shares, 191.29708437 BTC)	[19:44]
benkay	how long does this one go for?	[19:44]
pLambert	until the end of the month, I think	[19:45]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.052011 = 0.156 BTC [-]	[19:50]
benkay	;;cal 17.00250000/2267	[19:51]
gribble	Error: "cal" is not a valid command.	[19:51]
benkay	;;calc 17.00250000/2267	[19:51]
gribble	0.0075	[19:51]
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keonne	keonne: #bitcoin-assets is like a second job << first job for most people here. i see that, at least im honest, maybe one day i will be able to afford the trading platform fee and have my mind warped enough to warrant a spot in the full time club	[20:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40321 @ 0.00095724 = 38.5969 BTC [-] {4}	[20:13]
keonne	er meant to tab mircea	[20:14]
nubbins`	what in the fuck is a job	[20:15]
keonne	honestly my job doesnt feel like a job, so i guess im lucky there	[20:16]
keonne	also h8 at nubbins`	[20:16]
nubbins`	don't h8, m8	[20:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1136 @ 0.00014711 = 0.1671 BTC [+]	[20:16]
keonne	since in my mind hes lounging in a pool flush with btc and pussy in the virgin islands	[20:16]
keonne	dont ruin the image, i want to be you	[20:17]
truffles	haha	[20:17]
truffles	cept he lives in frozen canada :D	[20:17]
keonne	oh dear	[20:17]
keonne	but aye on the pools of btc and pussy	[20:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 864 @ 0.00014984 = 0.1295 BTC [+] {5}	[20:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.00078399 = 0.196 BTC [+] {2}	[20:18]
truffles	pussy is so overrated anus is where its at	[20:19]
dignork	mircea_popescu, it's just a sensible default, which can be changed via weechat.look.paste_max_lines, same idea is implemented in some unixes by aliasing 'rm' to 'rm -i', just a default	[20:20]
nubbins`	it's too cold for backyard pools here	[20:21]
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keonne	does anyone use the blockchain android wallet	[20:22]
nubbins`	android is for poor people	[20:22]
keonne	lol	[20:23]
truffles	dam i missed that memo	[20:23]
benkay	phones are for wage slaves	[20:23]
fluffypony	nubbins`: so you're a Windows Phone user, then?	[20:23]
nubbins`	http://www.osnews.com/story/27661/_Android_is_for_poor_people_	[20:23]
ozbot	'Android is for poor people'	[20:23]
keonne	lol such helpful	[20:23]
nubbins`	http://gizmodo.com/5977625/android-is-popular-because-its-cheap-not-because-its-good	[20:23]
ozbot	Android Is Popular Because It's Cheap, Not Because It's Good	[20:23]
keonne	gizmodo is popular because it's cheap, not because it's good	[20:24]
nubbins`	http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/362650/android-handsets-a-poor-mans-iphone-research-claims	[20:24]
ozbot	Android handsets a poor man's iPhone, research claims \| News \| PC Pro	[20:24]
nubbins`	http://theinterrobang.com/2013/07/rich-people-like-iphones-poor-people-like-android/	[20:24]
ozbot	Rich People Like iPhones, Poor People Like Android – The Interrobang	[20:24]
fluffypony	gizmodo is popular? I stopped reading there a long time ago	[20:24]
truffles	so Iphones are popular cuz theyre shiny?	[20:24]
keonne	how do you have all these on hand nubbins`	[20:24]
benkay	such science	[20:24]
nubbins`	i don't	[20:24]
nubbins`	i just googled "android is for poor people"	[20:25]
keonne	lol	[20:25]
keonne	this is why you get all the pussy and btc	[20:25]
keonne	and im a simple wage slave	[20:25]
nubbins`	not really	[20:25]
nubbins`	smartphones are for fucking losers in general	[20:26]
keonne	asciilifeform: what was the name of that soviet cartoon you mentioned earlier	[20:26]
nubbins`	REAL MEN CHECK THEIR TELEPHONES SEVERAL TIMES AN HOUR	[20:26]
truffles	nubbins` what do u use?	[20:26]
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nubbins`	IPHONE	[20:26]
nubbins`	i mean, iphone	[20:26]
nubbins`	heh	[20:26]
keonne	iPhone	[20:26]
truffles	oh ok	[20:26]
truffles	im surprised cuz i read they dont withstand cold temps	[20:27]
fluffypony	nubbins`: want a wooden case for it? we have a bunch as gifts, but most of our customers are Android users, and the guy that makes them doesn't make Android cases	[20:27]
nubbins`	shrug. i keep my phone in my pocket, not my mailbox	[20:27]
nubbins`	fluffypony, i don't use cases, but tyvm	[20:27]
fluffypony	np	[20:28]
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keonne	cases are for poor people according to nubbins`	[20:28]
fluffypony	lol	[20:28]
nubbins`	now you're putting words in my mouth	[20:28]
nubbins`	cases are for clumsy people	[20:28]
keonne	guilty	[20:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [7C] 20 @ 0.00759849 = 0.152 BTC [+] {2}	[20:29]
keonne	but i also did make up a life story for you	[20:29]
nubbins`	if you drop your $500 phone so often that you need to put it in a case, maybe you shouldn't have one	[20:29]
truffles	im pretty rough i need a case	[20:29]
keonne	my phone was $200	[20:30]
jurov	orly? mahogany smartphone box?	[20:30]
nubbins`	consider the statement suitably modified	[20:30]
keonne	still stands	[20:30]
truffles	200 sounds so modest dam!	[20:30]
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nubbins`	keonne: but was it subsidized?	[20:30]
keonne	nexus 5	[20:30]
keonne	no	[20:30]
*	nubbins` claps	[20:30]
keonne	unlocked off contract	[20:30]
keonne	no, subsidized phones are for poor people	[20:32]
keonne	and for people who will probably be perpetually poor	[20:32]
jurov	http://www.magazinehive.com/2013/08/iphone-4-and-iphone-4s-cases/ grep for bamboo or mahogany	[20:32]
ozbot	40+ Beautiful iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S Cases for Your Smartphone	[20:32]
keonne	because it's a really bad deal	[20:32]
nubbins`	no doubt you've got some math to back that up	[20:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00096327 = 10.7405 BTC [+]	[20:33]
fluffypony	http://i.imgur.com/Gv2WlWv.jpg	[20:33]
fluffypony	those are the cases we have	[20:33]
fluffypony	wood is pretty	[20:33]
nubbins`	it is indeed	[20:33]
keonne	thats nice fluffypony	[20:33]
nubbins`	engraving kinda ruins it	[20:33]
truffles	ppl actually back things up with scientific data itc? pfff	[20:33]
fluffypony	nubbins`: hush	[20:33]
fluffypony	:-P	[20:33]
nubbins`	might as well put a coca-cola logo on there	[20:33]
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nubbins`	truffles: who said anything about scientific? napkin scribbles would do	[20:34]
truffles	might as well not	[20:34]
truffles	imo	[20:34]
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nubbins`	suppose you save $500 by getting a subsidy. at the end of your two-year contract, you own your phone	[20:34]
truffles	that baseball case looks cute	[20:34]
keonne	well lets see, $500 phone you get for $250 because you sign a 2 year contract paying ~60-80 a month.	[20:35]
nubbins`	or you spend the extra $500, and two years later, you own your phone	[20:35]
nubbins`	what's the difference?	[20:35]
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keonne	the difference is poor people shouldnt eb buying 500 dollar phones	[20:35]
truffles	yep	[20:35]
nubbins`	well, that certainly answers a different question	[20:36]
nubbins`	how about the one i asked :D	[20:36]
truffles	im gonna aim for that 200 next phone!	[20:36]
keonne	sorry i keep going in and out of cell signal	[20:36]
nubbins`	shoulda bought an iphone i guess	[20:36]
keonne	or not be on a train going into tunnels	[20:36]
nubbins`	sure	[20:36]
nubbins`	either way.	[20:36]
nubbins`	explain to me how buying the phone outright is a better deal in the long run	[20:36]
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keonne	depends on the price of the phone	[20:37]
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nubbins`	let's say a new iphone	[20:37]
jurov	nubbins`: depends on if you're poor :DDDDD	[20:37]
nubbins`	$700 straight-up or $200 on a two-year contract	[20:37]
keonne	how much are those?	[20:37]
keonne	ah ok	[20:37]
keonne	thats insane..... first of all	[20:37]
daybyter	got my new smartphone today.	[20:38]
keonne	how much is the contract per month?	[20:38]
daybyter	pomp w88 Euro 105,- plus shipping.	[20:38]
TomServo	nubbins`: I think it depends on how much you value being able to switch carriers on a whim.	[20:38]
nubbins`	TomServo: $0	[20:38]
keonne	i mean i havent had a contract in 3 years	[20:38]
nubbins`	keonne: well, that depends heavily on how good you are at bargaining	[20:38]
keonne	and i have unlimited 4g data in both the US and Europe	[20:39]
TomServo	nubbins`: I'm just saying, that is what makes it a "better deal" to some people.	[20:39]
nubbins`	which (sorry to ruin the surprise) was the crux of my argument	[20:39]
keonne	for £15 pay as you go a month	[20:39]
nubbins`	canada is relatively expensive for cell service	[20:39]
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nubbins`	i pay, i think, $50/mo	[20:39]
keonne	its all highly situational	[20:40]
nubbins`	yep	[20:40]
keonne	i remmeber not even being able to get a sim card in canada	[20:40]
keonne	without a canadian ID	[20:40]
nubbins`	all different now, LTE nationwide	[20:40]
nubbins`	ah, without an id	[20:40]
nubbins`	not sure about that	[20:41]
keonne	in UK i go to the corner shop	[20:41]
keonne	and i can buyt as many sim cards as I want for£1 each	[20:41]
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nubbins`	neat	[20:41]
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nubbins`	TomServo: fair enough, but worth an extra $500?	[20:41]
daybyter	any android coders here, who also do java?	[20:42]
nubbins`	ostensibly you're changing providers to get a better rate	[20:42]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [7C] 20 @ 0.007696 = 0.1539 BTC [+] {2}	[20:42]
nubbins`	to make it worth $500, you'd need to save ~$21/mo by switching providers	[20:42]
nubbins`	it could be argued that you just picked the wrong provider to start with	[20:42]
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keonne	daybyter: not being snarky but dont all android devs have to know java? i thought that was part of the deal.	[20:43]
fluffypony	keonne: I was about to say the same thing	[20:43]
daybyter	I mean android and desktop-java.	[20:43]
fluffypony	say/ask	[20:43]
fluffypony	ah ok	[20:43]
daybyter	I have a lib that should run on desktop and android.	[20:43]
daybyter	no I wonder how to compile it best.	[20:44]
daybyter	add android.jar to the required libs?	[20:44]
daybyter	use conditional compiling?	[20:44]
nubbins`	^	[20:44]
bounce	write it for z-machine	[20:44]
daybyter	I used antenna back in the days of j2me projects.	[20:45]
nubbins`	i googled everything back in the days of writing code ;D	[20:46]
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nubbins`	why reinvent the wheel!	[20:46]
daybyter	google had no good solution available?	[20:47]
daybyter	maybe I'm just the first one who had this idea? :-)	[20:47]
nubbins`	if we were fencing, i'd say touche	[20:47]
keonne	bloody tunnels	[20:49]
truffles	is that code for sex?	[20:49]
nubbins`	HEH.	[20:49]
keonne	haha	[20:49]
fluffypony	yay! sex!	[20:49]
nubbins`	i want to enter your bloody tunnel	[20:49]
nubbins`	i should try this on my wife when she gets home	[20:50]
truffles	she likes red so go for it	[20:50]
keonne	let us know how that goes	[20:50]
nubbins`	my money is on a chuckle	[20:50]
keonne	gents i am off	[20:52]
keonne	as always its been a pleasure	[20:52]
daybyter	cul!	[20:52]
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nubbins`	;;ticker	[20:55]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 401.95, Best ask: 402.95, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 401.95, 24 hour volume: 36500.33354409, 24 hour low: 382.7, 24 hour high: 446.97, 24 hour vwap: 409.175624476	[20:55]
nubbins`	oddly, no suicide hotline phone number on reddit	[20:56]
keonne	http://trilema.com/2014/filantropica/ god damn, this is a good article. I really want to see this movie even more now.	[20:56]
ozbot	Filantropica pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[20:56]
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fluffypony	keonne: you said you were off!	[20:59]
keonne	i know	[21:00]
keonne	train is a bit delayed	[21:00]
fluffypony	ah ok	[21:00]
daybyter	keonne: you're an android coder?	[21:00]
keonne	not at all daybyter	[21:00]
daybyter	you're an android designer?	[21:01]
keonne	The only coding I do is a very hobbyist hack job at python	[21:01]
keonne	im a designer in general, focusing on UI, and I do a lot of android apps	[21:01]
daybyter	oh...ok...	[21:01]
nubbins`	it'll be 14 months on sunday since i gave up programming	[21:01]
daybyter	hmmh...that sounds interesting!	[21:01]
daybyter	I want to create an android app and look for help with the UI.	[21:02]
keonne	current i am redoing the blockchain android wallet, which is why i as asking earlier if anyone used it	[21:02]
daybyter	interested in a trading app?	[21:02]
fluffypony	nubbins`: how are you handling it?	[21:02]
keonne	and if they wanted to bitch at me their least favourite things	[21:02]
keonne	nubbins`: congrats :)	[21:03]
nubbins`	fluffypony, never been happier	[21:03]
mike_c	eulorum is dead. long live eulorum.	[21:03]
nubbins`	woo	[21:03]
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mike_c	new server, new install	[21:03]
mike_c	copied shit over	[21:03]
*	nubbins` high fives mike	[21:03]
daybyter	I write java trading code.	[21:03]
mike_c	nubbins, i copied over your password hash so you should be able to login	[21:03]
daybyter	and currently port some stuff to android.	[21:03]
nubbins`	i was briefly excited when i saw the "recent changes" page until i took a closer look :D	[21:04]
nubbins`	tyvm	[21:04]
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nubbins`	keonne: thanks :D	[21:04]
daybyter	looking for someone to make a pretty app.	[21:04]
benkay`	what's your budget?	[21:05]
benkay`	daybyter: what's your budget?	[21:05]
daybyter	I thought about a collab.	[21:05]
daybyter	maybe share the profit, if the app could be sold.	[21:05]
keonne	daybyter: sorry man, i really dont have the time	[21:06]
benkay`	what's the app?	[21:06]
keonne	plus you would hate working with me	[21:06]
daybyter	tradebot	[21:06]
daybyter	maybe manual trading, but I wanted to start as simple as possible.	[21:06]
benkay`	and you don't have the budget to pay for its production?	[21:07]
daybyter	I already got most of the stuff running on desktop.	[21:07]
keonne	i'm incredibly anal when it comes to design, and more engineers go crazy working with me	[21:07]
keonne	plus im expensive	[21:07]
daybyter	http://i.imgur.com/MqHfF.jpg	[21:07]
daybyter	http://i.imgur.com/xpqoqnk.png	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	dignork i know i know, jus' being an hardass spuriously.	[21:08]
daybyter	but I want to use a strategy that is a lot more simple.	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves dvsdude benkay` what the shit, letterman was supposed to be a comic neh ? colbert is now funny ?	[21:09]
benkay`	colbert's never been funny.	[21:09]
daybyter	benkay`: mail me, if you are interested.	[21:10]
daybyter	my mail is in almost all my sources: https://github.com/ReAzem/cryptocoin-tradelib	[21:10]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[21:11]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 401.99, Best ask: 402.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 401.99, 24 hour volume: 36649.25150965, 24 hour low: 382.7, 24 hour high: 446.97, 24 hour vwap: 408.857388372	[21:11]
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keonne	ok now im leaving for real	[21:13]
daybyter	cu!	[21:14]
nubbins`	heh	[21:15]
nubbins`	educating -otc on the perils of referring to cash-in-mail as CIM	[21:15]
benkay`	daybyter: not really interested.	[21:15]
daybyter	ok.	[21:15]
daybyter	thanks for your answer.	[21:15]
truff1es	awww	[21:16]
nubbins`	"willing to do CIM" etc	[21:16]
nubbins`	my sides	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	mike_c yeah it wasn't working b4 was it ?	[21:16]
mike_c	it was basically under assault from spam bots	[21:17]
mike_c	i didn't realize what a honeypot mediawiki is.	[21:18]
nubbins`	lots of pages about buying discount shoes	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` what perils be those ?	[21:18]
mike_c	but the new cat photos captcha should prevent that.	[21:18]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu basically just drawing snickers from dirtbags like me	[21:18]
nubbins`	;;ud cim	[21:18]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cim \| Upload a picture of Cim. 2. cim. Cum In Mouth. Meaning ejaculation of the man's sperm into anothers mouth. This may or may not be followed by the swallowing ...	[21:18]
ozbot	Urban Dictionary: cim	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	oh oh	[21:18]
nubbins`	oddly, nobody looking for just COF	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	cash on forehead ?	[21:19]
nubbins`	;;ud cof	[21:19]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=C.O.F. \| cof. Cum On Face - Sexual act often used when describing services offered by an escort. The escort I saw last night provided cof in addition to bbbj and fs.	[21:19]
ozbot	Urban Dictionary: C.O.F.	[21:19]
nubbins`	close enough ;D	[21:19]
benkay`	coin on, fellow.	[21:19]
nubbins`	heh	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	http://image.stirileprotv.ro/media/images/680xX/Apr2013/61303332.jpg	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	is bbbj like a blowjob with three girls ?	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	http://media.realitatea.ro/multimedia/image/201310/w728/taranul_83111800.jpg << cash on forehead. fo reals.	[21:23]
truff1es	why wouldnt u think doods	[21:23]
mircea_popescu	http://image.stirileprotv.ro/media/images/680xX/Jan2013/61251270.jpg	[21:24]
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benkay`	http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/28/article-1315776-0B612CFF000005DC-268_468x519.jpg	[21:27]
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mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[21:28]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 398.52, Best ask: 401.75, Bid-ask spread: 3.23000, Last trade: 398.46, 24 hour volume: 36696.67930975, 24 hour low: 382.7, 24 hour high: 446.97, 24 hour vwap: 408.824895153	[21:28]
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benkay`	450 -> 398	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	srsly	[21:28]
benkay`	"why is it crashing?"	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	"because the exchanges are less and less relevant" ?	[21:28]
asciilifeform	we might be witnessing a bifurcation a la 'bezzle dollar'	[21:29]
asciilifeform	(or this happened ages ago, and i'm just the last one to notice)	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	they've painted themselves in a corner, basically. if all you wanna do is buy 20 bucks wortha btc to "have some", no way in fuck do you go through all the caudine forkland of "send us a pic with you holding a seal". odds are you don't even have a phone.	[21:29]
benkay`	there is a bit of a discount for magical bitcoins	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	if you want 20k worth of btc, no fucking way you'll take that level of service. just find an escort that does COF CIM and BTC	[21:30]
fluffypony	CIM	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	so i guess the scammers get a whole new market now.	[21:30]
fluffypony	:-P	[21:30]
asciilifeform	at this point, even the most threadbare engineer is probably just buying coin from his coworkers	[21:30]
*	benkay` is now known as benkay	[21:30]
fluffypony	I have a lot of people I know that prefer to buy from me instead of buying on the local exchange	[21:30]
fluffypony	even though I keep telling them to	[21:30]
fluffypony	because it's annoying	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	fuck the local exchange.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	the future belongs to otc trades of btc.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	the various fiat jurisdictions had ~5 years to get their shit together and suck our cock enough to acquire this revenue stream.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	they have failed.	[21:31]
asciilifeform	wonder at what point exchanges will survive primarily on payola from whoever they are stoolies for, rather than commissions	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	no btc/fiat exchangesd for them. herp.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform at the point of 2014.	[21:31]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: we have a community here of < 500 people actively interested in Bitcoin, not just peripherally	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony cool.	[21:31]
fluffypony	it's tiny	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	depends who they are.	[21:32]
fluffypony	true	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	500 is too many for spartans.	[21:32]
taub	https://www.dropbox.com/s/z73tt8mgr6tndzy/FooledByRandomness.pdf cool book i'm reading right now	[21:32]
fluffypony	unfortunately the majority of them are kinda-nerdy-oh-look-here-I-can-get-rich	[21:32]
dignork	mircea_popescu, you said before that bitcoin-otc is irrelevant	[21:33]
truff1es	$$$$	[21:33]
fluffypony	dollah dollah billz, ya'll	[21:33]
bounce	otc is fun and fluffy and lovable and full of scammers	[21:33]
truff1es	ppl can change their minds	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	dignork otc as a concept. "over the counter"	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to "in an 'organised' ie regulated market"	[21:35]
dignork	mircea_popescu, sure, but so far bitcoin-otc based on WOT is the closest to OTC that I've seen so far	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin-otc was last i checked run mostly by dorks, and so consequently populated mostly by dorks	[21:35]
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fluffypony	hah hah - this was posted re: the < $400 slump: http://i.imgur.com/2bVRHRX.jpg	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	dignork i dunno, imo all of irc and a lot more is otc in this sense.	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony sure, except we've seen it three times already : the people who are butthurt during upswings because they were left out still don't buy during downswings because now it's more like "Haha! it's dead!"	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	mental issuez	[21:37]
fluffypony	that is VERY true	[21:38]
fluffypony	every time it's tanked I've bought on the downswing	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/#c2762	[21:38]
ozbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	this is a sad puppy	[21:38]
fluffypony	what is annoying is when the media talks about Bitcoin's "surprising resiliance despite being declared dead"	[21:39]
fluffypony	like wtf	[21:39]
fluffypony	just because someone says its dead doesn't automagically make it so	[21:39]
benkay	http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/#b62	[21:39]
ozbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June	[21:39]
benkay	they imagine their imagination matters, fluffypony .	[21:39]
mjr_	what up everyone	[21:39]
benkay	oh look who it is	[21:40]
mjr_	hahaha	[21:40]
benkay	mr constantly dropping connections	[21:40]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 546 @ 0.00075904 = 0.4144 BTC [-] {5}	[21:40]
mjr_	i know :(	[21:40]
benkay	still going to burning man with the shreminal?	[21:40]
mjr_	not sure...	[21:40]
benkay	2 things i'm bummed about missing this year	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony well yeah, it's sort-of like putin's surprising resilience in spite of being declared crazy.	[21:40]
mjr_	i was supposed to go hang out with him while i was in nyc	[21:40]
benkay	bm and mp	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	teh media has serious issues coming to some sort of representation of its own irrelevance.	[21:40]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: or Robert Mugabe's surprising resilience despite him probably being dead	[21:40]
mjr_	am I safe in assuming that everyone here thinks trying to change the bitcoin symbol is stupid and a waste of time?	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	mjr_ dude wtf was with all those parts.	[21:41]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 454 @ 0.00075 = 0.3405 BTC [-]	[21:41]
mjr_	when was that? I'm not sure if my laptop was even open...	[21:41]
kakobrekla	mircea_popescu ocd	[21:41]
benkay	i advocate we abandon the btc symbol all together and just use a capital b	[21:41]
benkay	200B	[21:41]
mjr_	what up kakobrekla	[21:41]
kakobrekla	heya	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-04-2014#609470	[21:41]
mjr_	basically i think i slam dunked the argument against symbol change	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	mjr_ ^	[21:42]
ozbot	#bitcoin-assets log	[21:42]
mjr_	phones can currently type the bitcoin symbol...i don't even know how you would convince apple or motorola to add a keyboard	[21:42]
mjr_	or what keyboard it should be under	[21:42]
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mircea_popescu	benkay i never used no dumbass symbol.	[21:42]
kakobrekla	you comming to ro or what?	[21:42]
benkay	bitcoin advocacy, mjr_ ?	[21:42]
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mjr_	but the amount of changes that using the proposed symbol would cost dwarf any benefit	[21:43]
benkay	no symbol.	[21:43]
fluffypony	benkay: what about a backwards Euro symbol, then it looks kinda like a monkey butt	[21:43]
mjr_	i have to try and get people to shut the fuck up and open their eyes and see how the world works	[21:43]
benkay	no man it's a waste of time	[21:43]
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benkay	fuck retards get paper	[21:43]
mjr_	good point	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	how about we just use $	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	not like the usd will survive anyway.	[21:44]
bounce	and let people think it's the new USD?	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	and afair they stole it off the mexicans on the same grounds.	[21:44]
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bounce	USB, the new USD	[21:44]
benkay	too early	[21:44]
mjr_	well...there are 30 other countries using $	[21:44]
mjr_	many more using "dollar"	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	bounce no moar like BD, the new USD	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	mjr_ exactly. argentina prices everything in "dollars", there's 3 of them	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	at least.	[21:45]
mjr_	which was my point...zeroblock told me on twitter "amateur hour is over"...i was like so canada, australia, mexico, etc are still in amateur hour...	[21:45]
mjr_	in the real world, symbols are mapped onto many currencies	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	who is zeroblock and what makes him think he can talk about amateur hour lol	[21:45]
mjr_	hahahaha	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	mp, lord of the fundamental questions.	[21:46]
mjr_	just part of the group of people who think that they understand the standards committees and how the real world works	[21:46]
mjr_	similar to the whole "XBT" thing	[21:46]
mjr_	which is the same issue...you don't pick a name and then ISO standardizes	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	we should have a drama department	[21:46]
mjr_	ISO will tell you what the official name is, and then you adopt it	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	like every highschool.	[21:46]
mjr_	yep	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	then the fat chicks can go and pretend like they're acting there after school	[21:47]
mjr_	its good to be chatting, and btw, it is very fun seeing people talk about you when you are not htere	[21:47]
mjr_	its nice	[21:47]
mjr_	to see yourself in the mirror	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	well they were talking about how much you piss them off	[21:47]
mjr_	and I think I will start blogging more	[21:47]
mjr_	hehehe	[21:47]
mjr_	maybe i didn't read that far down	[21:47]
mjr_	why not just ignore me?	[21:47]
benkay	ey lookit what princessnell's been up to: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2423461	[21:48]
mjr_	as in the IRC command, not attention wise	[21:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72651 @ 0.00096485 = 70.0973 BTC [+] {5}	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	not sure.	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	benkay chick writing a paper about us ?!	[21:48]
benkay	oh indeed.	[21:49]
benkay	oh it's great	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	pastebin that shit	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	ssrn bs	[21:49]
bounce	"why not just ignore all the spam in your inbox?" "why not just ignore that DDoS coming in?" -- such sensible questions.	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	bounce he's new.	[21:49]
benkay	it has footnotes and stuff that won't survive so well	[21:50]
bounce	shh. lemme admire the sensibility a bit more.	[21:50]
benkay	http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID2423461_code510873.pdf?abstractid=2423461&mirid=1	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	kk	[21:50]
ozbot	Bitcoin Financial Regulation: Securities, Derivatives, Prediction Markets, & Gambling by Jerry Brit	[21:50]
fluffypony	also known as BFR:SDPMG	[21:51]
fluffypony	bJB	[21:51]
bounce	SSRN, wasn't that a class of antidepressants?	[21:51]
akstunt600	Maybe bitcoin really needs to get cracked down on for it to thrive the way we want	[21:52]
akstunt600	the gen y kids the ones that need the most arent even using it yet really	[21:52]
akstunt600	bounce, tHAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT	[21:52]
akstunt600	oops caps	[21:52]
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danielpbarron	bitcoin doesn't get "cracked down on;" it does the cracking	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	bounce nah a social studies bs	[21:53]
akstunt600	hhahaha	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	akstunt600 an' who might you be ?	[21:53]
bounce	"wordy stuff that makes you need antidepressants", right ho.	[21:54]
akstunt600	Just a fellow bitcoin persons	[21:54]
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benkay	Accordingly, to the extent a contract delivers bitcoins at a date after the sale	[21:57]
benkay	(and not their cash equivalent), and is being used by a party to manage price	[21:57]
benkay	risk, it would likely be considered a forward and be excluded from the	[21:57]
benkay	CEA.	[21:57]
benkay	bold claim.	[21:57]
fluffypony	I don't see any tags?	[21:57]
benkay	i'd like to meet the person who's willing to test that 'likely' in the states, or finance the establishment of caselaw.	[21:57]
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benkay	options on pg 20	[21:59]
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mircea_popescu	;;google pg 20	[22:00]
gribble	USS Monocacy (PG-20) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Amazon.com: Pignose PG-20 PG-20 a/c powered amplifier: Musical ...: ; Part# PG-20-160Q:	[22:00]
benkay	"bitcoinica valued expediency and experimentation over postponement and risk-aversion"	[22:02]
benkay	gotta read more of this later	[22:03]
benkay	vms need hacking	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	oh really ? and i thought it simply valued pretense and pretending over competence or obeying your betters.	[22:03]
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mircea_popescu	poor phantomcircuit still imagines his brain works, i wager.	[22:03]
fluffypony	the red wedding: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/Nigerian+child+bride+forced+into+marriage+poisons+meal/9723504/story.html	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	pretty cool.	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	http://i.imgur.com/eyl9jeF.jpg	[22:06]
fluffypony	lol	[22:07]
goonsamchi	best to have diverse opinions, instead of a nation of sheep all taking the scientists' word for it, never considering the possibility that someone could be wrong	[22:08]
chetty	most people are wrong,most of the time	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	goonsamchi it's not a good idea to have "opinions" on matters you have not the authority to have opinions on.	[22:09]
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*	bounce mentions david nutt	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	last thing we need is every fuckwit social sciences major having opinions about how silicon valley start-ups should be run and so forth	[22:10]
goonsamchi	http://www.ctvnews.ca/why-medical-science-often-gets-it-wrong-1.744502	[22:10]
ozbot	Why medical studies often go wrong \| CTV News	[22:10]
goonsamchi	http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/?single_page=true	[22:10]
ozbot	Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science - David H. Freedman - The Atlantic	[22:11]
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mircea_popescu	sooo ?	[22:11]
fluffypony	goonsamchi: so you'd prefer they take their medical advice from a TV personality?	[22:11]
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goonsamchi	no, i think people should be allowed to control their own lives	[22:12]
goonsamchi	i believe in individual liberty and the right for people to be wrong	[22:12]
goonsamchi	http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21588069-scientific-research-has-changed-world-now-it-needs-change-itself-how-science-goes-wrong	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	goonsamchi there's a difference between controlling your own life and having opinions tho.	[22:13]
goonsamchi	yes, and people should have both	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	nobody is disputing the woman's right to be as fucking wrong as she possibly can get away with.	[22:13]
truff1es	prob diff in murrca than rest of world	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	but i am outright denying her the right to air dumbassery under the guise that "she's entitled to an opinion"	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	she is not.	[22:14]
goonsamchi	not allowing people to be incorrect just leads to a monoculture of sheep who all think the same. even if they're right, there's still a lack of diversity	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	now how do you know that ?	[22:14]
truff1es	thats what this room would become haha	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	seems to me allowing fuckwits to have "opinions" has turned the us of a into a monoculture of sheep who all think the same.	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	had these same fuckwits been beaten to shit for daring to open their mouths when their teachers were speaking,	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	we'd perhaps have had something like 58 goethes coming out of there, this year alone.	[22:15]
truff1es	0.0	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	at least if historical data is anything to go by.	[22:15]
fluffypony	goonsamchi: where do you draw the line? if a wildly popular personality says that everyone should kill themselves, and then a bunch of people do, should the person who expressed their "opinion" be entitled to it?	[22:15]
truff1es	beat some sense into them, thats it!	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony definitely.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	whoa this is going to be a good argument, i disagree with everyone.	[22:16]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: population control?	[22:16]
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fluffypony	:-P	[22:16]
fluffypony	meh	[22:16]
goonsamchi	you should be allowed to do anything you want unless it directly infringes on the rights of others.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	no, but the discussion is metaphisics, and being listened to qualifies him to speak./	[22:16]
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mircea_popescu	goonsamchi so your eating infringes on the rights of others, stop eating.	[22:16]
chetty	well there is a difference between having an opinon, and expressing it	[22:16]
goonsamchi	it does not.	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	how convenient.	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	of course it does. fucking world is constructed so your existence is built out of the death of your siblings.	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	thats how things work.	[22:17]
fluffypony	goonsamchi: there are starving people in Africa that would disagree	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	this is nothing less than the point of existence : for you to drive lesser versions out of existence, or for them to drive oyu.	[22:18]
goonsamchi	lol. my not eating would not affect the people in africa	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	how convenient #2.	[22:18]
benkay	mircea_popescu: the teachers'd need to be worth attending to.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	benkay sure.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	benkay im sure all of goethe's teachers were all supercool and worthy dudes.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	not according to him, but what the fuck does he know.	[22:19]
chetty	you would listen to a 'teacher' that wasn't worth it?	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	problem is how the fuck would you distinguish.	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	idiots on the forum also think they know better. the reason they think so is because they don't know what they don't know	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	and on the basis of what they know, aka 0, they're right.	[22:20]
chetty	the best ones are the scariest!	[22:20]
fluffypony	but you can't even quantify "stuff you don't know"	[22:21]
truff1es	goonsamchi u make good points, id like to read more ur views on this	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[22:21]
chetty	if it hurts, you are learning something	[22:21]
truff1es	just wait til the sillyness washes away	[22:21]
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thestringpuller	chetty if you start doing things right and realize you were once wrong you are also learning things :)	[22:22]
chetty	thestringpuller, and that hurts too	[22:22]
thestringpuller	most people seem to do things wrong, get told so, ignor as MP points out, then they run head first into concrete and complain about how they have brain damage	[22:22]
truff1es	told by whom?	[22:23]
fluffypony	although making mistakes and learning from them should be encouraged, no?	[22:23]
thestringpuller	you shouldn't make mistakes with other peoples money	[22:23]
thestringpuller	fucking use testnet	[22:23]
fluffypony	oh I agree with that	[22:24]
fluffypony	I was talking in generalisations	[22:24]
thestringpuller	no experimenting wiht production services, fucking get managers and shit. perhaps it's about time for another tally of the BTC losses due to scams and icompetence	[22:24]
chetty	fluffypony, that is I think, the definition of learning	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony making mistakes should be encouraged in a narrow field : that where we don't know what the mistakes are. in the fields where we already know, they should not be.	[22:25]
chetty	bitcoins don't get lost (mostly) just transfered	[22:25]
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mircea_popescu	such as, putting your hand in the flame may in principle do all sorts of cool things, like charge your phone battery	[22:25]
fluffypony	lol	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	but it won't. so don't learn from fucking experience.	[22:25]
fluffypony	yeah I use the "stove is hot" analogy often	[22:25]
fluffypony	but you end up with a burnt hand afterwards	[22:25]
truff1es	if u were tough enough it wouldnt matter!	[22:26]
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mircea_popescu	just wait til the sillyness washes away << funny how on the spot this guy is. since forever the strategy of the mentally defective has been, just wait until the cool people get exhausted, and try to rebuild socialism then!	[22:26]
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truff1es	says the person who wants to beat people to submission	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	the epic resilience of stupidity.	[22:27]
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fluffypony	I think testnet is an under-utilised feature	[22:34]
robwhiz22	Good evening.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	http://rt.com/usa/nevada-ranch-armed-feds-520/	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	the usg moving into cattle rustling	[22:35]
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robwhiz22	Hi, mircea_popescu	[22:35]
chetty	shades of Waco??	[22:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 38 @ 0.05195871 = 1.9744 BTC [-] {11}	[22:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 88 @ 0.05036279 = 4.4319 BTC [-] {6}	[22:37]
robwhiz22	You kind of disappeared the other day. I'm hoping you had a chance to read what I'd written you earlier. If so could you tell me a decision please?	[22:37]
robwhiz22!@	added to ignore list.	[22:37]
fluffypony	robwhiz22: you never emailed me:(	[22:40]
*	fluffypony feels left out	[22:41]
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TomServo	robwhiz22: You're the "I can fix the Cardano" guy right?	[22:42]
fluffypony	TomServo: yes	[22:42]
asciilifeform	'fix' in the 'veterinary' sense of the word.	[22:43]
fluffypony	for the low, low price of 10 BTC	[22:43]
fluffypony	monthly	[22:43]
fluffypony	with interest	[22:43]
TomServo	Sorry, I should've also put fix in quotes.	[22:43]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/anonymous-derpage/	[22:49]
ozbot	Anonymous derpage pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[22:49]
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*	bounce spots a developing tvtropes addiction	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	bounce no cause i was addicted muchly afore.	[22:52]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: gum chewing definition of “acultural” << term 'nekulturny' actually pops up in english texts on occasion. because it applies.	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	wow it does huh	[22:52]
jurov	really?	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	ty, adding to my bag.	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	i'd never have guessed.	[22:53]
jurov	;;ud nekulturny	[22:53]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nekulturny \| ... chav, or naco. Ivan, you nekulturny bastard, don't pick your nose in public! by LN_Sac September 07, 2008. 57 9. Mugs & shirts Buy “nekulturny” mugs & shirts ...	[22:53]
ozbot	Urban Dictionary: nekulturny	[22:53]
Apocalyptic	sounds like a slovak word	[22:53]
asciilifeform	probably exists in all slavic languages	[22:54]
BingoBoingo	;;tslb	[22:54]
gribble	Time since last block: 24 minutes and 57 seconds	[22:54]
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fluffypony	holy shit	[22:54]
jurov	from my cursory research it looks it's much more insulting in russian	[22:54]
fluffypony	http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/10/americas-overtake-africa-most-murders	[22:54]
ozbot	Americas overtake Africa as region with most murders \| World news \| theguardian.com	[22:54]
asciilifeform	basic soviet meaning, a fellow who's had no truck with human cultural achievements - literature, physics, philosophy, whatever	[22:54]
fluffypony	we're not so bad here!	[22:54]
fluffypony	yay	[22:54]
asciilifeform	but also for folks with no manners	[22:55]
Apocalyptic	^ that's the meaning that comes to mind first to me	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform "a particular flavour of inhumanity"	[22:55]
asciilifeform	read 'savage brute'	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony is that raw total or per capita ?	[22:55]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: looks like it's per capita	[22:55]
fluffypony	they do it on a "murders per 100k people" basis	[22:56]
asciilifeform	in some places, savage brute is someone who picks his nose - in others, one who never heard of differential equations.	[22:56]
asciilifeform	all depends on context.	[22:56]
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mircea_popescu	fluffypony wow.	[22:58]
bounce	the student club had a rule that you couldn't actually lie. ie answers must be truthful. but you could refuse to answer on grounds of the question being too direct. add in some rules that made buying the entire bar population beers both very easy to do and hard to figure out for the barman... well, it's a student club, whaddaya expect?	[22:59]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yeah, I was quite surprised, the ex-pats have beaten the "murder rate in South Africa is the highest in the world" speech into everyone's heads we're starting to believe it ourselves	[22:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.57547032 = 8.6321 BTC [-] {7}	[23:00]
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mircea_popescu	fluffypony but wait, you meant all of africa vs north, south and central america ?	[23:01]
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bounce	compared to the conspiring, deceit, backstabbing, betrayal, "white" lieing, bald faced lieing, and all that, happening among the most cultured of any population, traditionally the aristocrats and like court dwellers, that's outright friendly and truthful.	[23:01]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: I'm talking specifically about South Africa - our murder rate is mentioned in the article, ~30 per 100k vs Honduras at ~90 per 100k	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	bounce aristocrats and courtiers don't map.	[23:02]
fluffypony	s/30/31	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	it's like saying smart people and web developers.	[23:02]
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mircea_popescu	fluffypony what if you only count white people ?	[23:02]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: significantly lower	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	well then okay.	[23:03]
twizt	lol	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	i had bought the same arguments, omg sa is terrible.	[23:03]
fluffypony	we're a small part of the population (relatively), and a lot of the murders are gang related	[23:03]
fluffypony	for eg. Cape Town now has a higher murder rate than Johannesburg	[23:03]
fluffypony	but something ridiculous like 80% of the murders occur in Lavender Hill	[23:03]
fluffypony	which is gang warfare territory in the Cape Flats	[23:04]
fluffypony	that even policeman don't go into	[23:04]
fluffypony	much less white people	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	aha	[23:04]
bounce	not true. any high concentration of power without proper management tends to bring lots of little kingdoms, warring each other. I'm told the pettiest squabbles can be found in academia.	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	bounce wait, what specifically isn't true ?	[23:04]
fluffypony	bounce: are we still talking about murder rates?	[23:05]
bounce	well, what did you mean with "don't map"?	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	lots of little kingdoms don't necessarily war each other, and moreover the wars of little kingdoms are not at all like the wars of national-socialist statal machines,	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	the sort that opposed the french and the germans, or the germans and the russians, or the french and the russians	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	bounce i meant aristocrats and courtiers are two mostly distinct things.	[23:05]
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mircea_popescu	in general one can't be both. whenever aristocrats were forced to be courtiers historically, they lost their aristocracy, and the state collapsed	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	(seen both in china and in france, quite identical)	[23:06]
bounce	both are at the top of the societal pile, if in slightly different senses.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	this does not make much of a similarity.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	the top of a cake and the top of an oil tank aren't similar on grounds of topness.	[23:07]
bounce	but the cake is a lie.	[23:07]
bounce	anyhow, I'll gladly concede this since my interest is in a different point.	[23:07]
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thestringpuller	;;gettrust robwhiz22	[23:08]
asciilifeform	robwhiz22 is 'elusive joe'	[23:08]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user robwhiz22: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=robwhiz22 \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=robwhiz22 \| Rated since: never	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	well... which point ?	[23:08]
asciilifeform	'The "Elusive Joe" (Russian: Неуловимый Джо) has become an ironic nickname in Russia for various difficult-to-find persons (not necessarily unimportant ones). It is suggested that the nickname and the joke originated from a 1923 satirical novel An Elusive Enemy. American Novel by Mikhail Kozyrev (ru:Козырев, Михаил Яковлевич) which contained a funny song about a Joe who was e	[23:09]
asciilifeform	lusive because no one needed him.'	[23:09]
thestringpuller	lolololololololol	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	course it's more like elusive djo in russian	[23:09]
bounce	dose roossians	[23:09]
asciilifeform	naturally	[23:09]
asciilifeform	i used to think that 'elusive joe' is an american expression	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	haha	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	i do't think american expressions are allowed to contain words such as elusive	[23:10]
asciilifeform	basic idea, desperado who isn't wanted for anything but thinks he's 'hot on the run'	[23:10]
bounce	robwhiz22: the best way for you to stop running around in circles is stop running around in circles. drop the text in a pastebin and share. you have permission to do this already.	[23:11]
fluffypony	robwhiz22: I think you're on /ignore, he was talking to bounce	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform romanian canonical equivalent is "tu crezi ca te cauta militia pe messenger". ie, you think the militsya is pursuing you through im.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	(joke beingthat the militsya was an obsolete institution, and famously the people it employed could not write)	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	coined by a blogger, in this post : http://www.jeg.ro/dupa-monitoru-gri-stam-noi-anonimitatea/	[23:12]
bounce	.oO( certainly argumentative )	[23:12]
bounce	re reinventing the wheel, wasn't there a medico recently that got a paper published essentially reinventing calculus (and naming it after himself, naturally)?	[23:15]
asciilifeform	bounce: well there was (still is...) a wealthy american crackpot who claimed cellular automata as his invention, suing anyone who publicly disagreed	[23:16]
asciilifeform	;;google wolfram batshit insanity	[23:16]
gribble	Stephen Wolfram, A New Kind of Science: ; Ten Years of Monster Raving Egomania and Utter Batshit Insanity: ; Collection of Reviews of Wolfram's A New Kind of Science, Etc...:	[23:16]
asciilifeform	but that was a while ago.	[23:17]
asciilifeform	to my great shame, i (well, my research group, at my request) bought his software once.	[23:18]
*	Korbman has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0347901 = 0.3479 BTC [-]	[23:19]
*	Guest53702 has quit (Changing host)	[23:20]
*	Guest53702 (~coingenui@unaffiliated/coingenuity) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
*	draino (~quassel@75-130-226-73.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
*	dvsdude has quit ()	[23:23]
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*	sgnb (~user@wencory.loria.fr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	the whole thing sounds like tom sawyer's aunt.	[23:24]
*	Sahtor has quit (Quit: Sahtor)	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	also http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/915.html doesn't exist	[23:24]
bounce	https://web.archive.org/web/20100322205031/http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram	[23:24]
ozbot	Stephen Wolfram, A New Kind of Science	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	also, google does not return the wayback machine for a "web history" query.	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, they return all the wikipedia pages possible.	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	must be cool to run a search engine that consists of promoting your friends.	[23:25]
*	HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:26]
*	HeySteve (HeySteve@41-133-187-85.dsl.mweb.co.za) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:26]
*	HeySteve has quit (Changing host)	[23:26]
*	HeySteve (HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:26]
*	Guest53702 is now known as coingenuity	[23:26]
bounce	could (also) be self-selecting, of course. archive.org might wlel be.	[23:27]
bounce	s/wlel/well/	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[23:27]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[23:31]
bounce	9th paragraph, unkindly said, "applying the new jersey approach to the universe"	[23:32]
mircea_popescu	"My teacher, more patient than I would be with adolescent arrogance, gently informed me that it was a standard technique, in any book on linear algebra, called "reduction to Jordan normal form", after the man who discovered it in the 1800s. "	[23:33]
mircea_popescu	i want this entered into the record of proof for the importance of beating schoolchildren.	[23:33]
mircea_popescu	kids that have no experience with beatings have no conceivable incentive to abandon the notion they invented jordan normal form.	[23:34]
jurov	bah, even these who do	[23:35]
fluffypony	robwhiz22: why don't you just put the docs online for all to see/download? Or PasteBin it? You've been given permission to do so, after all.	[23:35]
bounce	nothing said the writer got beaten nor he didn't abandon the notion he wasn't the first when told	[23:35]
bounce	pretty cool he found it out himself, even if it turned out later he wasn't the first.	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	bounce sure, pretty cool.	[23:36]
BCB	http://vid.ly/7h6w6m <-- dev panel from PrincetonBTC	[23:38]
ozbot	vid.ly/7h6w6m	[23:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.047122 = 0.2356 BTC [+] {4}	[23:39]
fluffypony	dun dun dun DUN	[23:39]
mircea_popescu	"Martin-Löf showed, again roughly speaking, that complex objects will pass many high-reliability tests for randomness, and conversely objects which pass randomness tests must have high algorithmic complexity."	[23:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what nonsense is this ;/	[23:39]
asciilifeform	not familiar with the 'complex objects' in question.	[23:40]
jurov	s/complex/shiny/	[23:40]
jurov	:D	[23:40]
*	cnxmari has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[23:40]
bounce	go on, polish xkcd's "4" some more, why don't you? :)	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	me either, but as described it's scandalous.	[23:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: he was probably speaking of greg chaitin's entropy.	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	the guy does declare he's trained as a phys, so i guess rank cluelessness about math may be excused	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	no he's talking of Kolmogorov	[23:42]
BingoBoingo	robwhiz22: If you thing your solicitation reveals flaws, public disclosure is the responsible thing to do	[23:42]
fluffypony	quote-unquie	[23:44]
fluffypony	*unquite	[23:44]
*	fluffypony needs more wine	[23:44]
asciilifeform	ok, for everyone who didn't catch it the first time i posted it,	[23:45]
asciilifeform	http://pastebin.com/mBLdFHzt	[23:45]
ozbot	derp_more.txt - Pastebin.com	[23:45]
asciilifeform	no one can say i wasn't patient.	[23:46]
BingoBoingo	robwhiz22: If you dunno they application how can you be competent to critique it?	[23:46]
asciilifeform	i'd also like to add, for the edification of future spammers, that blatant sockmuppetry (switching handles every week) does not add credibility.	[23:47]
bounce	966 lines. looks like a bit of a waste.	[23:50]
*	frank1e (~frank1e@unaffiliated/frank1e) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:52]
Apocalyptic	no one can say i wasn't patient. << and that's an understatement	[23:53]
jurov	tl;dr: cardano can suddenly change into usb keyboard hence its insecure	[23:53]
jurov	i did not read further	[23:53]
asciilifeform	see mp's essay about 'your wife changes into dog'	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	wait i wrote that ?!	[23:53]
asciilifeform	somewhere.	[23:53]
jurov	or a pig... there's actually a book about that	[23:53]
bounce	no, he is a dog. this is the internets.	[23:53]
mike_c	3 hours! that take some serious zen power.	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	mike_c next time you want to ask me why the cardano isn't done by xmas...	[23:54]
asciilifeform	how many pictures of the damn thing have to be posted	[23:54]
mike_c	hehe	[23:54]
jurov	robwhiz22: it's often discussed here, if you'd actually read the logs	[23:54]
asciilifeform	as if an rng were a nuke, or any other rarity	[23:55]
jurov	but you seem to be write-only dude	[23:55]
bounce	maybe it should be. backdoored and all.	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	;;google wilbur glenn voliva	[23:55]
gribble	Wilbur Glenn Voliva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Wilbur Glenn Voliva visits New Orleans, Louisiana in 1912 ...: ; $5,000 for Proving the Earth is a Globe \| Modern Mechanix:	[23:55]
bounce	bogon-triggered tacnuke	[23:55]
*	tyrion70 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	he's like Julia A. Moore but forscience.	[23:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04799932 = 0.144 BTC [+] {3}	[23:56]
fluffypony	robwhiz22: the rng project is basically based on buttcoin:sharpie density	[23:57]
thestringpuller	!last m s.mpoe	[23:57]
assbot	Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00096485 BTC [+]	[23:57]
asciilifeform	i can't wait for this fellow's Amazing RNG Improvement ideas.	[23:57]
jurov	robwhiz22: google the logs for hookers+microphone	[23:57]
fluffypony	asciilifeform: the seed is a digital breathalyser...works best when you're drunk;)	[23:58]
asciilifeform	http://trilema.com/2013/unsorted-collection-of-various-cardano-related-updates-spurious-pics	[23:58]
asciilifeform	etc	[23:58]
ozbot	Unsorted collection of various Cardano related updates + spurious pics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mirce	[23:58]

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