Forum logs for 06 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	could go to washington via melbourne	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	heck, you could come over for a spell.	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	your btc certainly good here.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: wish i had any time.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	so send the pet over on a btc-fueled joyride.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	+5 lbs guaranteed over a week, 96% or more from icecream.	[00:10]
asciilifeform	the one thing i cannot buy with whatever.	[00:10]
asciilifeform	l0l pet could not even be persuaded to go to the funfest c3!	[00:10]
asciilifeform	(believe, i tried)	[00:11]
asciilifeform	pet purrs slowly in its perch.	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	a well. i shall go out and have some myself.	[00:13]
asciilifeform	enjoy mircea_popescu	[00:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00055158 = 11.7487 BTC [-] {5}	[00:37]
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gernika	asciilifeform: cheapair.com seems to still take btc. I bought some tix to europe from them with btc a few years ago.	[00:49]
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asciilifeform	i used it when i went to c2 ( though i paid with usd. )	[01:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00054977 = 15.2286 BTC [-] {2}	[01:24]
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BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[02:22]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 398.78, vol: 14818.59620292 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 402.739, vol: 8168.53208 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.0, vol: 45355.82363454 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 408.59049, vol: 61049.54870000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 395.593, vol: 3988.1908336 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 397.030903, vol: 137.36785246 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[02:23]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[02:23]
gribble	402.806764405	[02:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00054986 = 29.0326 BTC [+] {6}	[02:27]
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*	TheAdversary has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/#comment-116709 << lose a kingdom, gain another, or how did that go.	[02:46]
assbot	I'll pay for your tits on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SrkpdO )	[02:46]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2016/03/leaked-voicemails-show-donald-trump-clinton-cozy-with-liberal-media/#comment-47903 << Much insult to MP	[02:47]
assbot	Leaked Voicemails Show Donald Trump-Clinton Cozy With Liberal Media \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Srkqyc )	[02:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2623 @ 0.00054902 = 1.4401 BTC [-] {3}	[02:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20891 @ 0.000549 = 11.4692 BTC [-]	[02:48]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[03:05]
gribble	Current Blocks: 401379 \| Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 \| Next Difficulty In: 1820 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 0 hours, and 0 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[03:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00055237 = 3.8114 BTC [+] {2}	[03:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7755 @ 0.0005509 = 4.2722 BTC [-] {2}	[03:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22239 @ 0.00055238 = 12.2844 BTC [+]	[04:08]
*	ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy	[04:16]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?	[04:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10639 @ 0.00055426 = 5.8968 BTC [+] {2}	[04:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37261 @ 0.0005496 = 20.4786 BTC [-] {3}	[04:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23365 @ 0.00054866 = 12.8194 BTC [-] {3}	[04:32]
*	linton_s_dawson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[04:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42000 @ 0.00055282 = 23.2184 BTC [+] {2}	[05:11]
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ben_vulpes	http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116712 << asciilifeform, mod6, jurov, PeterL, mircea_popescu, kakobrekla (in moderation, hopefully passes the bowels of mircea_popescu's wprexen soon)	[05:44]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QWvD4x )	[05:44]
ben_vulpes	http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp	[05:49]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QWwaDt )	[05:50]
ben_vulpes	if it's possible to confirm that the contents of `sig` corresponded to the single `addr` to which the block subsidy+fees (eg first transaction) pays out, i believe that the addidional `addr` header field could be omitted.	[05:52]
ben_vulpes	duh yeah `addr` field not necessary	[05:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00055298 = 21.0409 BTC [+] {3}	[06:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00055282 = 4.2844 BTC [-] {2}	[06:13]
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ben_vulpes	http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-capacity-nightmare-fees-reality/ << annals of "don't mention qntra whatever you do"	[06:19]
assbot	Bitcoin's Capacity Issues No 'Nightmare', But Higher Fees May Be New Reality - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1p8htrn )	[06:19]
ben_vulpes	unknown actor lol	[06:19]
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ben_vulpes	i think that the above change would necessitate a new genesis block, as i suspect that difficulty is far too high for the hardware capable of hashing as described to generate a single block in any sort of reasonable time	[06:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00055128 = 8.5724 BTC [-] {3}	[07:04]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423470 << trivially: an addr is valid if a coinbase some time fed it, and not otherwise. (in this hypothetical alt)	[07:41]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 07:26:07; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?	[07:41]
asciilifeform	want an addr, mine a block.	[07:41]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.	[07:44]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 08:49:19; ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp	[07:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67029 @ 0.00054915 = 36.809 BTC [-] {5}	[08:26]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:38]
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asciilifeform	;;ticker	[09:13]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 405.45, Best ask: 405.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 405.45, 24 hour volume: 43906.29639634, 24 hour low: 389.0, 24 hour high: 406.15, 24 hour vwap: None	[09:13]
asciilifeform	^ usg says 'ty mp, have moar fine fresh printolade'	[09:14]
asciilifeform	'got any moar of that sole known antiinflatronium you don't want? we'll buy!'	[09:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72750 @ 0.00054749 = 39.8299 BTC [-] {7}	[09:18]
asciilifeform	^ shouldn't mpex be denominated in gold pieces-of-eight now?!1111	[09:19]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[09:20]
asciilifeform	wb nubbins`	[09:20]
nubbins`	ty	[09:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00054629 = 10.9804 BTC [-] {2}	[09:20]
*	nubbins` went and built a computer from parts	[09:20]
nubbins`	somewhat inexplicably, first time i've done so in my 34 years	[09:21]
asciilifeform	congrats! Z80 or 6502?	[09:21]
nubbins`	sadly, i went for the modern comforts of an i5 (i know)	[09:21]
asciilifeform	urgh	[09:21]
nubbins`	but it was beterrn that and the 6502 for a while	[09:22]
nubbins`	between, even	[09:22]
nubbins`	it's a "work machine", so i'm more concerned about how it runs illustrator than how well it protects the private keys that aren't on it	[09:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16906 @ 0.00055082 = 9.3122 BTC [+] {2}	[09:23]
nubbins`	speaking of work, i have a large number of S.NSA t-shirts still taking up space in my basement	[09:25]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu the current lease on floor space expires April 30 2016; property will be considered to be abandoned if arrangements not made by that point	[09:25]
*	Soligor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[09:29]
*	asciilifeform had nfi	[09:29]
nubbins`	going on 2.5 years now	[09:30]
nubbins`	in retrospect, prob pulled the trigger a bit early on ordering tees	[09:30]
asciilifeform	i'd buy'em but money broke.	[09:30]
nubbins`	they're already paid for 8)	[09:30]
asciilifeform	dun work no moar.	[09:30]
nubbins`	no?	[09:30]
asciilifeform	see yest. logz.	[09:31]
nubbins`	alf left the straight path to live the life of the boheme?	[09:31]
*	nubbins` wanders off to read	[09:31]
asciilifeform	not me	[09:31]
asciilifeform	it.	[09:31]
asciilifeform	!s from:mircea_popescu divesting	[09:31]
assbot	3 results for 'from:mircea_popescu divesting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+divesting	[09:32]
asciilifeform	^	[09:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.0005535 = 11.5405 BTC [+]	[09:42]
*	Soligor (~Soligor@unaffiliated/soligor) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 465 @ 0.00260635 = 1.212 BTC [+] {8}	[09:46]
jurov	!t m x.eur	[09:47]
assbot	[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00254491 / 0.00257652 / 0.00262899 (1006 shares, 2.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259324 / 0.00262899 (2053 shares, 5.32 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)	[09:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10308 @ 0.0005535 = 5.7055 BTC [+]	[09:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00054568 = 29.0302 BTC [-] {4}	[09:57]
nubbins`	ah	[09:58]
nubbins`	asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?	[09:58]
nubbins`	or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together	[09:59]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b130	[10:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109650 @ 0.00054457 = 59.7121 BTC [-] {8}	[10:01]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423537 << you forgot mpex subscriptions	[10:02]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 12:59:16; nubbins`: or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together	[10:02]
nubbins`	right, yeah	[10:03]
nubbins`	i "forgot" those	[10:03]
asciilifeform	( easily 95+% of it all iirc )	[10:03]
nubbins`	easily actually a thing that's real too	[10:03]
asciilifeform	real vs what ?	[10:04]
nubbins`	O.O	[10:05]
nubbins`	made-up	[10:07]
nubbins`	(what other vs did you expect?!)	[10:07]
asciilifeform	i mean, if nubbins` thinks that mircea_popescu runs an arse-mouth system and buys own subscriptions, what does he pay divs from?	[10:07]
asciilifeform	gifts from god?	[10:07]
nubbins`	6 vs half doz	[10:08]
nubbins`	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423412 << just so i can suggest appropriately, this is money you don't need/want for practical use?	[10:08]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 02:44:42; *: asciilifeform all ears for ideas re: on what to blow a modest (~10kusd) worth of coin while it is still worth something.	[10:08]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: didja catch up with the log?	[10:08]
nubbins`	yeah, more or less. everyone QQing about the fyootur	[10:08]
nubbins`	lords tossing themselves from the parapets	[10:09]
nubbins`	anguished wails of those who have lost hope	[10:09]
nubbins`	what i'm asking is if toilet paper is a good suggestion, or if a motorcycle is a good suggestion	[10:10]
nubbins`	there	[10:10]
asciilifeform	neither	[10:10]
nubbins`	's a reaosnable variety of ways one could blow $10k	[10:10]
asciilifeform	didja miss the part where i refuse to give ANY of it to usg?	[10:11]
nubbins`	well your other option is to keep it	[10:11]
nubbins`	how else to ensure?	[10:11]
asciilifeform	it can't at any point become usd.	[10:11]
nubbins`	send it to 1bitcoineater.	[10:11]
asciilifeform	well question was re how to usefully burn it.	[10:11]
nubbins`	buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd.	[10:12]
asciilifeform	buy what?	[10:12]
nubbins`	guess you'll have to un-usefully burn it	[10:12]
asciilifeform	there is literally nothing to buy	[10:12]
nubbins`	buy some of my art books	[10:12]
mircea_popescu	* asciilifeform had nfi >> you recall, we made a t-shirt design, he agreed to print for a very nice rate, ended up storing them for us.	[10:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ah right	[10:13]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` in honesty at this point i see ~0 chance we'll deliver in any sort of human timeframe, or for that matter have any use for 3 to 25 year old tshirts.	[10:13]
mircea_popescu	thanks for your kind help in the matter - feel free to distribute the remaining tees to whosoever you feel like and that'd be that.	[10:13]
nubbins`	understood. thanks for the work!	[10:13]
nubbins`	was not insignificant for our fledgling business at the time	[10:13]
*	p15x_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[10:14]
*	asciilifeform still has a few sealed ones in crate	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	ah, even better then!	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	i don't even recall how many we ended up distributing, was it like 10% ? 25% ? 1% ?	[10:14]
thestringpuller	oh man i'm getting old.	[10:14]
*	thestringpuller just turned 28	[10:14]
nubbins`	i think something around 20-30% of them left my hands	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	oh, well then really - this is above industry average.	[10:15]
nubbins`	thestringpuller you're technically still a child at 28	[10:15]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu we've been moving the biz away from textile printing and towards paper/fine art printing	[10:15]
nubbins`	margins way better	[10:15]
nubbins`	storage easier	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	see what you did that	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[10:15]
thestringpuller	nubbins`: oh well cool. i guess I'll just wait for the big 3-0	[10:15]
nubbins`	fucking up a t-shirt print = $6 wasted. fucking up a poster = $0.70 wasted	[10:15]
thestringpuller	nubbins`: lithography?	[10:16]
nubbins`	serigraphy, in fact	[10:16]
mircea_popescu	i see what you did thar*	[10:16]
nubbins`	flat stock is something people put on their wall & admire -- see "Imagine a game" bitcoin posters	[10:16]
thestringpuller	you must really like screen printing! lol	[10:16]
nubbins`	t-shirt is something people spill mustard on & get cum all over	[10:16]
mircea_popescu	i think he does!	[10:16]
nubbins`	indeed i do	[10:17]
nubbins`	http://www.pinkeyeprints.com/product/a-whale-and-other-disorders-4	[10:17]
assbot	A Whale and Other Disorders #4 / PINK EYE PRINT COMPANY ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCStii )	[10:17]
nubbins`	our latest tome	[10:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00054386 = 30.7281 BTC [-] {5}	[10:17]
thestringpuller	i eneded up framing that print you gave me as bonus when I ordered shirts	[10:18]
nubbins`	FTR i've been teaching myself hardcover bookbinding and TRB.book would have been gorgeous	[10:18]
nubbins`	thestringpuller can't quite recall the print	[10:18]
mircea_popescu	18 buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.	[10:18]
danielpbarron	nubbins`, how much to send me a couple of those shirts :)	[10:19]
thestringpuller	it has a cloud on one side and scissors in in the desert on another side	[10:19]
nubbins`	danielpbarron PM with mailing addy and i'll get a shipping quote	[10:19]
nubbins`	thestringpuller ahh yes, from pepa chan	[10:19]
nubbins`	she has a piece in book linked above	[10:19]
asciilifeform	'On what grave, is carved the name of the self you lost?' -- from nubbins` link	[10:19]
nubbins`	for whom does the night paint the dawn?	[10:20]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423610 << why would i care what ~seller~ does with it.	[10:21]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 13:18:04; mircea_popescu: 18 buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	no idea.	[10:21]
asciilifeform	problem is that nobody's selling anything i need.	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	but - eulora copper. not only exact answer, but provably the only one.	[10:21]
nubbins`	no, problem is we don't know what you need because you're not telling us	[10:21]
*	nubbins` can't imagine alf in a department store	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	wait, the criteria is "buy something useful with bitcoin" && "seller may not give btc to usd" ?	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	my dear alf, not even cardano would qualify!	[10:22]
asciilifeform	dun need these for anything. i don't even own iron that could run eulora.	[10:22]
asciilifeform	and again no	[10:22]
mircea_popescu	maybe specifying the problem you're trying to solve would help.	[10:22]
asciilifeform	~i~	[10:22]
asciilifeform	dont want to see usd.	[10:22]
mircea_popescu	so, "buy something useful with bitcoin - must be physical item or service that i can use"	[10:23]
mircea_popescu	?	[10:23]
asciilifeform	AHA	[10:23]
mircea_popescu	SFYL.	[10:23]
nubbins`	heh.	[10:23]
nubbins`	waste it on shit	[10:23]
nubbins`	what odds	[10:23]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin, after night on a decade of empty posturing, has exactly no sort of useful anything on offer.	[10:23]
nubbins`	shit, sorry, "what odds" is a newfy-ism	[10:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16332 @ 0.00054385 = 8.8822 BTC [-] {2}	[10:23]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: ~which~ shit	[10:23]
nubbins`	asciilifeform that's what i've been trying to ask you and you've been steadfastly not answering	[10:24]
asciilifeform	because that was my very puzzle!	[10:24]
nubbins`	"what can i buy" as a process of elimination isn't something i'm interested in participating in	[10:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4195 @ 0.00054361 = 2.2804 BTC [-]	[10:24]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: it's a good place to store money when it's not in use...	[10:24]
mircea_popescu	used to be, at any rate.	[10:25]
thestringpuller	only good thing to sell BTC for is fiat, but whats the point in that if your income 99% fiat	[10:25]
nubbins`	https://www.instagram.com/p/BCGPGdXERqU/	[10:25]
assbot	Instagram ... ( http://bit.ly/21Pu7MV )	[10:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu, as far as i can tell, is right, and there is nothing to buy.	[10:25]
nubbins`	^ my latest tome	[10:25]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: i won't sell for fiat because it gets taxed.	[10:26]
asciilifeform	scorched motherfucking earth.	[10:26]
thestringpuller	If you're paid in fiat why would you ever sell bitcoin at all?	[10:26]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: because it's going to 0?	[10:26]
thestringpuller	going to 0 as in game over? or going to 0 for a minute then we'll be back to $X price.	[10:27]
asciilifeform	the former.	[10:27]
asciilifeform	see log.	[10:27]
nubbins`	deal when we signed up was 0 or oo	[10:28]
nubbins`	we all knew it	[10:28]
asciilifeform	aha.	[10:28]
nubbins`	asciilifeform there's always bullion	[10:29]
asciilifeform	who in wot sells it?	[10:29]
asciilifeform	IN MY WOT	[10:29]
asciilifeform	and i'm not interested in it being scanned in usg mail, either.	[10:30]
nubbins`	well that excludes ME from selling it to you	[10:30]
asciilifeform	or 'lost'.	[10:30]
asciilifeform	plus wtf do i need metal for.	[10:31]
*	nubbins` sent a $17,000 package via fedex last year	[10:31]
asciilifeform	would be again stuck with what useful thing to trade it for.	[10:31]
nubbins`	you need metal to convert btc-usd without notice	[10:31]
nubbins`	wait, you don't want usd or something	[10:31]
asciilifeform	metal gets waterfalled with usg paper gold.	[10:31]
nubbins`	too useful to pay rent or w/e	[10:32]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i don't want any of my btc to feed usg.	[10:32]
nubbins`	you don't get to control what happens to it once it leaves your hands	[10:32]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: you don't get it.	[10:33]
nubbins`	apparently not	[10:33]
nubbins`	try actually explaining this time	[10:33]
asciilifeform	what i don't want is its motion to add to my detectable usg taxability in any way.	[10:33]
nubbins`	right.	[10:34]
nubbins`	so, obviously usg is reading this right now	[10:34]
asciilifeform	which is why i won't accept usd wires from people, etc.	[10:34]
asciilifeform	usg reads everything.	[10:34]
nubbins`	right	[10:34]
asciilifeform	recall kolhoz inmates refusing to plant?	[10:35]
asciilifeform	killing own livestock?	[10:35]
asciilifeform	well.	[10:35]
nubbins`	what broad categories of goods or services would you accept in return for your btc?	[10:35]
nubbins`	in a perfect world where the transfer of such goods or the provision of such services was able to take place in absolute secrect	[10:36]
nubbins`	within the bounds of credulity	[10:36]
nubbins`	take your time, i gotta shit	[10:36]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: then why business as usual if bitcoin is dead?	[10:36]
asciilifeform	escape from my concentration camp, for one thing. But that costs 1000x what i have.	[10:36]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: ?	[10:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.00054361 = 9.1598 BTC [-] {2}	[10:38]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: BTC just failed, now what? << It seems business as usual tho...or is #b-a closing shop?	[10:40]
nubbins`	lel	[10:44]
nubbins`	alf the absolutist	[10:44]
nubbins`	he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet	[10:45]
nubbins`	w/ air support	[10:45]
*	nubbins` can't imagine the sort of mindset required to believe that the only two viable options for one's future are stasis or a $10mn windfall	[10:47]
nubbins`	but this may be a failing on my part	[10:47]
*	p15x (~p15x@167.91.145.64.unassigned.bringover.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?	[10:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2138 @ 0.00054842 = 1.1725 BTC [+] {2}	[10:49]
assbot	No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January - February 2016 Joint Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOwNp )	[10:49]
nubbins`	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/496v30/so_it_was_a_fee_event_and_everyone_was_screaming/d0pk4vm	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116715	[10:52]
assbot	Tibanne comments on So it was a Fee Event? And everyone was screaming and I was still confused. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJQT )	[10:52]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJjK )	[10:52]
nubbins`	http://collectivelyconscious.net/articles/oscar-winning-star-wars-animator-admits-he-took-lsd-while-working-on-return-of-the-jedi/	[10:53]
assbot	Oscar-Winning Star Wars Animator Admits He Took LSD While Working On Return Of The Jedi ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOTaX )	[10:54]
nubbins`	lule	[10:54]
nubbins`	shit article, don't click	[10:54]
nubbins`	but this quote is ok	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423469 << this is a while out yet.	[10:54]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 07:15:37; *: ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy	[10:54]
nubbins`	“I took LSD when I was working on ‘Return of the Jedi,’ and it’s fine. It was, like, very calming. And so I decided to go back to work. When I walked into the blue-screen stage, it was like, ‘Ahhh.’ I took way too much,”	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.	[10:56]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 10:43:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping.	[10:58]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 12:29:48; asciilifeform: i'd buy'em but money broke.	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423536 << obvious or not, not really the case. last i did something like this was when i said "100 is good enough" and people insisted on running up to 1k.	[10:58]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?	[10:58]
nubbins`	heh	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	and yes, i can readily credit myself retrospectively with saving bitcoin through that, but why even bother.	[10:59]
nubbins`	nihilism ftw	[10:59]
nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping. <<< he's right	[11:00]
nubbins`	wait now.	[11:01]
nubbins`	alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	alf lives in a complicated world.	[11:01]
nubbins`	in fairness, i'd ship the box via canada post.	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	oh, why not bitcoin post ?	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	you quisling you.	[11:02]
nubbins`	no coverage in my area	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	aw shit. i forgot.	[11:02]
nubbins`	does virgin airlines take btc?	[11:03]
nubbins`	or just the outer space one	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	you could airdrop them from orbit on alf's house. seeing how he lives next door to obama's rural cousin #5460580, prolly give norad a good wake-up.	[11:03]
nubbins`	that would require entering US airspace, which is on my verboten list	[11:03]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:888f:38d7:19a9:c8ae) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:04]
nubbins`	ever since the nudie scans at the airports were deemed non-optional	[11:04]
thestringpuller	oh man what an interesting birthday.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	heh	[11:04]
thestringpuller	i figured node warfare would become a thing.	[11:04]
nubbins`	just imagine how interesting it'll be in two years	[11:04]
nubbins`	node warfare sort of is a thing already	[11:04]
*	thestringpuller has a feeling he will be depressed when reading upcoming s.bbet statement	[11:04]
nubbins`	just this upcoming one?!	[11:05]
nubbins`	man, you guys must've missed me	[11:05]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423707 << definitely discussed. there is deliberately no simple way of refirmwaring the thing.	[11:05]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 13:48:35; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?	[11:05]
asciilifeform	so it's, at least without laboratory instruments, a once-per-device thing.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	(i would even use antifuse roms but they are NOT SOLD)	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	not the substance of the q as i see it.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	will the thing be buildable by others on a v process.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	which then	[11:06]
asciilifeform	yes.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	this is key.	[11:06]
nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg	[11:07]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQ5uU )	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	aite.	[11:07]
*	TheAdversary (~adversary@unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:07]
nubbins`	https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/495vr7/tifu_by_inquiring_to_apple_about_ibutt/	[11:08]
assbot	TIFU by inquiring to Apple about iButt : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQddZ )	[11:08]
*	nubbins` commits seppuku	[11:08]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423702 << i'm not interested in becoming an even poorer and lower peon in a shittier country. it's living-off-capital or death plox.	[11:09]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 13:44:29; nubbins`: he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet	[11:09]
asciilifeform	this is referred to as 'breaking out of gravity well'	[11:09]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: reminds me of affluent guy who ends up in witness protection washing rental cars for a living	[11:09]
nubbins`	alf, i don't think you quite understand how few shittier countries exist than the one you're in	[11:09]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah well for living off capital it helps having capital, and it helps even more (say H(N^2)) to be the kind of spirit that is helped by capital	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	usually evidenced by having the capital in the first place.	[11:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no shit	[11:10]
*	nubbins` flatly doesn't believe alf is "poor" in any reasonable sense of the word	[11:10]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: as poor as any wretch. work-a-day-eat-a-day poor.	[11:11]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: do you live off food stamps, or drink 40's on the stoop?	[11:11]
nubbins`	that's a function of how much you spend, not how much you make.	[11:11]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: understand what 'poor' means	[11:11]
thestringpuller	how many black people live within 300 yards of oyu?	[11:11]
nubbins`	thestringpuller he lives in DC	[11:11]
thestringpuller	how many people do crack on your street?	[11:11]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: at least 20	[11:11]
nubbins`	heh	[11:11]
asciilifeform	how the hell would i know what dope my neighbours take ?	[11:12]
nubbins`	for alf, "poor" means he can't stop working permanently	[11:12]
asciilifeform	i don't take it with them.	[11:12]
asciilifeform	nubbins` has it.	[11:12]
nubbins`	that's a slave's definition	[11:12]
nubbins`	enjoy yr chains	[11:12]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: you should move to projects for a year an live like the actual slave negros.	[11:12]
*	TheAdversary has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[11:12]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: being a slave, it would be stepping outside of my competence to attempt the use of any other kind of definition.	[11:13]
*	nubbins` lols, makes masturbatory gesture	[11:13]
nubbins`	do go on	[11:13]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: the very poverty consists in the sort of things i do to ~not~ live 'in the projects', with roommates a la nubbins`, or eat recycled food, etc.	[11:13]
nubbins`	more realistic is that you're just fucking terrible with money	[11:13]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: it's better to be a light skinned house-boy than to work the fields...	[11:13]
thestringpuller	you get to eat wholesome meals instead of chitlins	[11:14]
nubbins`	besides, i've sworn off roommates.	[11:14]
nubbins`	a temporary situation, no longer required	[11:14]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: i must wonder if you would still agree if you knew what i do to pay for the 'get to'.	[11:14]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: iirc we had this thread. you paid off the house.	[11:15]
nubbins`	no b'y	[11:15]
nubbins`	$180k outstanding	[11:15]
asciilifeform	srsly could've sworn nubbins` paid off a house...	[11:15]
*	nubbins` shrugs	[11:15]
nubbins`	P	[11:15]
nubbins`	's house is halfway there	[11:15]
nubbins`	could blank out the mortgage tomorrow, but dat capital gains tax.	[11:16]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: slavery is slavery, however i must admit house niggas were treated better than the outdoor field niggas.	[11:16]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423732 << does nubbins` know how taxation works in usaschwitz ?	[11:17]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 14:01:07; nubbins`: alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?	[11:17]
nubbins`	prob similar to how it works here in canadia	[11:17]
asciilifeform	the way it works is that if i sold, e.g., 10k of coin, i get to give 4k to usg immediately.	[11:18]
asciilifeform	fuck that.	[11:18]
asciilifeform	i'd rather burn it.	[11:18]
nubbins`	uhhh.	[11:18]
nubbins`	40%?	[11:18]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: why do you not launder money as to avoid taxation?	[11:19]
nubbins`	wait, btc is money in the USA, isn't it?	[11:19]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: could've sworn we had this thread.	[11:19]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: we have, but I think you overestimate the facilities required to execute such a plan...	[11:19]
*	nubbins` would get to give 1k to revenue canada if liquidating 10k of coin	[11:19]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: we have something called 'tax brackets' here.	[11:20]
nubbins`	we do here too, and capital gains are taxed at 11% across the board	[11:20]
asciilifeform	oh and if usg decides that you did not pay enough, you get charged double-triple post-facto.	[11:20]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: if your rent is can be paid by money order, you can take bag of benjies and buy multiple US postal mondey orders...	[11:20]
thestringpuller	you can launder up to $1200 at a time no questions asked	[11:20]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: it is not.	[11:21]
asciilifeform	it is paid in electronic insta-tax usd.	[11:21]
asciilifeform	solely.	[11:21]
*	nubbins` sighs	[11:21]
*	thestringpuller sighs	[11:21]
nubbins`	without actual dollar figures these arguments are absolute fucking wankery	[11:21]
nubbins`	and smth tells me alf would find it vulgar to quantify these vagaries	[11:21]
thestringpuller	should be making "free asciilifeform" t-shirts and protesting the white house	[11:21]
asciilifeform	l0l you'd have to free the other 10 mil rapemeat caste folk.	[11:22]
asciilifeform	there is nothing particular about asciilifeform.	[11:22]
nubbins`	there's nothing particular about anyone, pre-action	[11:22]
thestringpuller	you are a unique snowflake asciilifeform	[11:22]
asciilifeform	where was mircea_popescu's forks photo	[11:23]
nubbins`	nothing particular about cluny macpherson until he invented the gas mask	[11:23]
asciilifeform	>> http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/basini-unique.jpg << here we go	[11:23]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhHYN )	[11:23]
nubbins`	(born 1879 st. john's twodogland, natch)	[11:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423721 << can hear more about this plox ??	[11:24]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 13:56:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.	[11:24]
asciilifeform	because i utterly don't get it	[11:24]
asciilifeform	the conn rst thing is because we're talking to strangerz and using idiot unauthed plaintext.	[11:24]
nubbins`	https://www.google.ca/maps/place/65+rennie's+mill+road/@47.5713426,-52.70955,3a,75y,251.39h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4HAkVDP7JL-X-LtA-3TypA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xe5ce28b603c71da!6m1!1e1	[11:25]
assbot	Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhV25 )	[11:25]
nubbins`	^ home of inventor of gas mask	[11:25]
nubbins`	do a 180 and see the park where nubs plays frisbee and smokes dope	[11:25]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: the venetians had gas masks.	[11:25]
nubbins`	"modern" gas mask	[11:26]
asciilifeform	ah	[11:26]
asciilifeform	neato	[11:26]
nubbins`	first general-issue mask for british troops	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform think about it - decentralized, but no strangers ? how's this design supposed to even go ?	[11:27]
asciilifeform	strangers when-there-is-room.	[11:27]
asciilifeform	otherwise you talk to the other folks in your terror cell.	[11:27]
asciilifeform	gossip.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	(they - to theirs. etc)	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	right. so now, internet overlord decides to rst all conns that are trying to move block-sized items back and forth.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	how does he know you are moving block-sized item ?	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	you can break bitcoin w/o breaking the internet, which is a problem.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	all you have is a box spewing 512b packets at 100/sec.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	forever.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	or pick a number each hour.	[11:28]
asciilifeform	this is 1960s tech.	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	not currently made use of by teh bitcoin.	[11:29]
asciilifeform	we don't even have a currently.	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	lol point.	[11:29]
asciilifeform	discussing hypothetical new pistol.	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	so you want to have a proper meld here, gossipd-bitcoin	[11:29]
asciilifeform	it is what i've been quietly laying out, yes.	[11:29]
nubbins`	i'mma leave you guys to it	[11:29]
asciilifeform	parachute.	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	cheerios nubs.	[11:29]
nubbins`	anyone else wants NSA tees for cost of shipping, send me a line	[11:29]
*	nubbins` has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)	[11:30]
asciilifeform	;;later tell nubbins` how many can i get for 1btc.	[11:30]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	if you get them in one package, should prolly be "all of them", ie a crate. esp if no hurry.	[11:30]
asciilifeform	nubbins` packs well, it was a mondo crate last time	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	he does yeah.	[11:31]
*	mircea_popescu has no complaints at all re nubs subcontracting, aaa would hire again.	[11:31]
*	asciilifeform same.	[11:31]
shinohai	;;ticker --market all	[11:32]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 408.03, vol: 13949.55909627 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 408.982, vol: 7682.02106 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.92, vol: 42128.66710141 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 414.38523, vol: 62416.85380000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 401.879, vol: 3457.6833331 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 395.964, vol: 256.64245295 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[11:32]
shinohai	;;more	[11:33]
gribble	410.26856075	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform for your own peace of mind : i would ~definitely~ support a beedog coin, irrespective of how cartel mining impasse is resolved or the eventual fate of current-bitcoin.	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	we needed a 2nd for a long time anyway, wtf is this ripple eth ltc doge bs.	[11:34]
asciilifeform	afaik there was not yet, to date, a from-scratch thing	[11:34]
asciilifeform	even as crackpottery	[11:34]
asciilifeform	everybody had chunks of rotting satoshade in there.	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	yup.	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	and there is a very good vp on the table. gossip + proper hashes and ciphers + correct pow + proper relay/mine design + + +	[11:35]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ << well there was this, and then ATC failed around that time	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller indeed.	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	was a very instructive experiment.	[11:36]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: it was straight satoshi with new genesis iirc.	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	yup.	[11:36]
thestringpuller	for next experiment: remove satoshi and his dope from the equation completely	[11:36]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: what i was trying to say is that no one, afaik, has ever proposed and implemented entirely novel mechanism.	[11:36]
asciilifeform	the one problem that i was not able to solve, now just as a decade ago when i started thinking about it, is 'initial allocation.' satoshi's solution, as can be seen now, was retarded.	[11:38]
asciilifeform	but afaik there is not a plausible alternative.	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	if mining works correctly (ie, as he naively intended it would) the initial allocation as designed is fine.	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	i'll put some boxes to it as a seed, whosoever wants to do the same can do the same and it can take it from there.	[11:39]
asciilifeform	well, he naively thought that nobody would throw $maxint at it.	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	that was at no point the problem.	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin was fine, and would continue to be fine, as is, for any maxint.	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	the weakness in the pow and the poor mining/relayer design created perverse incentives not directly apparent in the design phase, however.	[11:40]
asciilifeform	this is so.	[11:40]
asciilifeform	but the 51% thing was apparent from beginning, it was even in the paper.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	this is not a problem of scaling, even if it is a problem made apparent by scaling	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	lettuce not blame the bearer of bad news.	[11:41]
asciilifeform	did we ever do a thread on chiral miners ?	[11:42]
thestringpuller	ah this makes me wanna finish my fictional story about plutonium coin	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	!s chiral miners	[11:43]
assbot	0 results for 'chiral miners' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chiral+miners	[11:43]
thestringpuller	a coin which requires nuclear power plants worth of energy to mine single blocks	[11:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this being, where you have two or more types of miners, who have inherently opposed interests	[11:43]
asciilifeform	perhaps we called it sexed miners	[11:43]
asciilifeform	i forget.	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	this is "pools under another name"	[11:43]
asciilifeform	how's that	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	ipso definition, individual women in any gendered species are in the pool of womanhood ; and respectively males.	[11:44]
asciilifeform	do wolf and deer make pools ?	[11:44]
asciilifeform	(i.e. come to agreement)	[11:44]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: alpha wolf kills all the other males and takes women for himself	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	the chief problem of human society is pool collusion in this view.	[11:44]
thestringpuller	or is that lions...	[11:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my notion was that bitcoin suffered from a ~game-theoretically~ poor design.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	in that there was no built-in incentive for defecting from a miner cartel.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	males trying to get together to gangrape individual females ; females getting together trying to create wailer choruses to keep the male group at bay, everything we don't like about society reduces readily to "it's not made up of individuals", ie, poolmined.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	precisely.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	hence you need defection-incentive.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	this is nonsense. you needn't balance the desire of syphilis to defect from syphilisdom by injecting my with tb ffs.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	picture that you were newcomen and built a cruddy steam engine.	[11:46]
mircea_popescu	so yes, bitcoin does suffer from game theoretical poor design, but this problem specifically can not be resolved by "adding another bug somewhere else, they'll cancel out".	[11:46]
asciilifeform	piston - came loose.	[11:47]
asciilifeform	ergo, engine came to equilibrium.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	the problem is that margin-driven mining creates centralisation necessarily.	[11:47]
asciilifeform	but you do not want equilibrium.	[11:47]
asciilifeform	you want ~dynamic~ equilibrium.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	trust me, unlike you that doesn't play, i ~created~ a homeostatic game world.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	and i'm telling you, the solution to a broken knee is not to break an elbow.	[11:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not 'bug somewhere else', but a payoff matrix that doesn't equilibrate at 'herd'	[11:47]
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mircea_popescu	well you'll have to be a lot more detailed then	[11:48]
asciilifeform	if had detail, we would be testing a proggy.	[11:48]
asciilifeform	rather than thinking.	[11:48]
asciilifeform	!s axelrod	[11:48]
assbot	5 results for 'axelrod' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=axelrod	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	lemme say that schelling points exist PRECISELY because ~irrational~ behaviour is an UNDEFEATABLE solution to your matrix.	[11:48]
asciilifeform	!s prisoner's dilemma	[11:48]
assbot	7 results for 'prisoner's dilemma' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=prisoner%27s+dilemma	[11:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it is a 'solution' in the sense that there is no exact pill against it, but is -ev for the player.	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	ie, humans have a very lengthy, selected ability to centralize against the possibility of a nice world.	[11:49]
asciilifeform	(i know of no system where random moves are reliably +ev)	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	you're kicking the can. -ev for the player +ev for the group, we're buiolding the soviets omfg fuckme	[11:49]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[11:50]
asciilifeform	anyway the original point stands, bitcoin had no fewer than ~3~ types of animal - miner, node, tx-er. and they were supposed to stay in racul, broasca si o stiuca	[11:52]
asciilifeform	but did not.	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	not so. bitcoin had 3 types of animal, minerS, nodes, owners. notwitstanding the very problematic weakness of nodes, the minerS unicellular molds merged in one major piece of dogvomit.	[12:01]
asciilifeform	isn't that what i just said ?	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	this is what most molds do under environmental stress - which is exactly what the environment was designed to do to them.	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well, not exactly what you said :)	[12:01]
asciilifeform	l0l	[12:02]
asciilifeform	or we can lift from a mircea_popescu article, 'Another aspect is that new blocks are mined by one group (miners) but have to be stored in perpetuity by another group (nodes). This creates a situation where X (users) pay Y (miners) to inconvenience Z (nodes), which is unsustainable not to mention sheer nonsense.'	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ?	[12:03]
asciilifeform	what does this question mean ?	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	specifically what i mean - how about quantum money ? (yes sum X settled as Y in subgrapg S1, but as Z in subgraph S2. problem ?)	[12:04]
asciilifeform	not only is it not a problem, but it is not escapable	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	the [fundamentally centralzising] question of "tell me the one and only god-given truth as to ownership" dissolves in a cloud of acceptances.	[12:04]
asciilifeform	^	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	ie, THEY think i paid you 5 btc, but THOSE OTHERS see that same 5 btc going to him. and well.. it's just how it is.	[12:04]
asciilifeform	see also http://kyristor.com	[12:04]
assbot	kyristor ... ( http://bit.ly/1OnKvZl )	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	this notion of money is disjunct enough from the commonly held to be scary.	[12:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00054575 = 10.9969 BTC [-] {2}	[12:05]
asciilifeform	the quantum spiked dildo eases in less painfully when you realize that the interfering electrons etc were ~always~ there under the newtoniana.	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	i don't expect this realisation to be within common reach.	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	"non-inflationary, non-traceable" suddenly means something very different.	[12:06]
asciilifeform	how much 'common reach' today for electrodynamics ?	[12:06]
asciilifeform	and money, as i stole from another mircea_popescu article, 'is a function of the forum'	[12:07]
asciilifeform	which means...	[12:07]
asciilifeform	this.	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	why do i always run into people nuttier than myself ?	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	you're supposed to be a stabilizing influence in my life, world! wtf is this!	[12:07]
asciilifeform	l0lZ!	[12:07]
asciilifeform	well for some reason you sent hanbot to turn over dumpsters in alleys and find'em. so here i am.	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	so basically, forking is +ev for participants until everyone's on his own chain. how does anyone transact this assperger coin ?	[12:09]
asciilifeform	it is +ev in the same sense as being hikikomori and starving to death is +ev.	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	yup.	[12:10]
asciilifeform	is it ?	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	apparently.	[12:10]
asciilifeform	for the folks for whom it is.	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	from a "critique of pure reason" standpoint, it is.	[12:10]
asciilifeform	fortunately the 'pure reason' folks are yet only a subset.	[12:11]
asciilifeform	and there are still people who get out of the house, cut steel pipes, etc.	[12:11]
mircea_popescu	so the option is "either create a money that drives a government, or else create a money that drives a crazy" ?	[12:11]
asciilifeform	somethinglikethat.	[12:12]
asciilifeform	what we have now is an ad-hoc (2), the exhaust heat from which drives (1).	[12:12]
mircea_popescu	ok, take the nonsense practically : there's A, as illustrated yesterday, the group of six nude ladies ; there's B, b-a. i hope you folks aren't nude atm ?	[12:12]
mircea_popescu	now - person X comes to me with a 5 BTC which he wants to spend on milk. B sees the 5 as valid ; A, as invalid. i know both A and B. does this mean i have to choose ?	[12:13]
asciilifeform	manually?!	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[12:14]
asciilifeform	choose	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	at all.	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	not being a superposition of eigenstates myself, but a resolved one, i can't both credit and not credit the 5btc. would seem i have to choose one.	[12:15]
asciilifeform	well, gotta cut into detail. why, in this universe, does b see the 5 as valid, and a as invalid ?	[12:16]
asciilifeform	i.e. why do their ledgers differ to begin with ?	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	because B mined on the basis of the chain that it saw ; and A idem. there's no guarantee these would stay coherent, and so they didn';t.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	now the chains are split.	[12:17]
asciilifeform	so when they meet, they reconcile the ledgers. and if one or more of the parties refuses to, they now have to march off into parallel worlds.	[12:17]
asciilifeform	and never transact.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	why would they ever meet ? they're not meeting. ask your pet.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	and why would they reconcile ever if they met ? have you seen nude women together before ?	[12:18]
asciilifeform	sorta like what happens today when mircea_popescu meets somebody who disagrees with him re: what 2+2 equals.	[12:18]
asciilifeform	by 'meet' i specifically mean 'have to agree on something'	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ? << how about quantum money ?	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	what did you think i meant ?	[12:18]
asciilifeform	this.	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	so why would it require they "agree" ?	[12:18]
asciilifeform	well, if we're going full-bore, the transaction takes two matrices and yields a third.	[12:19]
asciilifeform	rather than a scalar.	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	i dunno about your or anyone else's experience, but i personally have spent my entire life to date in the company of people whose takes were fundamentally irreconcilable. ever since a wee tyke doing double time between the upper crups exclusive school and the criminal underworld.	[12:19]
asciilifeform	aha!	[12:19]
asciilifeform	and so now we have money for them.	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	so then. what do i do with the 5btc ?	[12:19]
asciilifeform	well, it's no longer 5btc scalar. it is now... [[5 0] [0 0]] or the like.	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	and you can not specify the bytesize of this item.	[12:20]
asciilifeform	can you specify bytesize of old btc tx ?	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	up to 1mb.	[12:20]
asciilifeform	and this also up to 1mb. if you like.	[12:21]
asciilifeform	which limits the size of the world, but nobody asked for an infinite world.	[12:21]
asciilifeform	(happily)	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	(notwithstanding all the idiots who "read" the code - it is there, specified. de facto, irrespective of intention, and besides the guy's intentions scarcely either made sense or made it into practice.)	[12:21]
asciilifeform	sure is.	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	so you're going to bake in a magic number which is the largest number of groups that may ever exist in anyone's view	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	or is it "in everyone's view" ?	[12:22]
asciilifeform	this is avoidable.	[12:22]
asciilifeform	there are files in existence larger than your hdd. this bothers you ?	[12:22]
asciilifeform	it does not bother me. if i need to create or receive such a thing, i buy moar disk. or tell the other fella 'make smaller files'	[12:23]
asciilifeform	it stands to reason that folks would have some incentive to collapse their coinmatrices to manageable size	[12:23]
asciilifeform	by reconciling groups when possible.	[12:23]
asciilifeform	and arbitrageurs would buy 'heavy' coin for 'light'.	[12:23]
*	asciilifeform dislikes 'magic numberz'.	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	perhaps. let us leave this very dark tunnel for now.	[12:24]
*	asciilifeform off to meatspace, unpacking fig trees from their winter tarps, bbl.	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	try another : every morning when i wake up now, i read the log. this, i like. if i were using your coin, every morning when i woke up, i would conceivably be greeted by a list of notifications : "group X has now split. in five. would you like to name the shards or ignore the shards, for each shard ?"	[12:25]
asciilifeform	ok we'll do this one.	[12:25]
asciilifeform	why would you ever do this ?	[12:26]
asciilifeform	does your linux box tell you 'your inode xxxx has split, would you like to ....... ' ?	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	because if biulbiul has an argument with fatme, i am still fucking both.	[12:26]
asciilifeform	but now you can. all that happens is that the matrices grow by a few bit.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	;;search biulbiul fatme	[12:27]
gribble	(search ) -- Searches for in the current configuration variables.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	;;google biulbiul fatme	[12:27]
gribble	No matches found.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	pff.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so i'd have to constantly see this.	[12:27]
asciilifeform	ideally - never.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	pfff.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	what are you, satoshi ? plox no dumbo.	[12:27]
asciilifeform	this is one of those things that will have to be built in a mechanical model, like maxwell's eq.	[12:28]
asciilifeform	to be the least bit convincing.	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	many questions remain, but the discussion has been interesting.	[12:28]
asciilifeform	!s from:asciilifeform scalar	[12:28]
assbot	14 results for 'from:asciilifeform scalar' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+scalar	[12:28]
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asciilifeform	we already established that ~trust~ is not, in any reasonable model, a scalar.	[12:29]
asciilifeform	why should money be ?	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	not a question of ought, a question of is.	[12:29]
asciilifeform	well yes.	[12:29]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	money IS. whether it'll ever be what it ought or not - welll, that's what engineers are for.	[12:29]
asciilifeform	why would we imagine (aside from our newtonian tunnel vision) that it ~is~ a scalar.	[12:30]
asciilifeform	was my question.	[12:30]
nubbins`	asciilifeform: indeed, you can get all of them and more for 1 btc.	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform because convention. why do i imagine putting girl on knees is humiliating ?	[12:30]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2014#456922 , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967475 , etc	[12:30]
assbot	Logged on 24-01-2014 04:36:33; asciilifeform: eventually people's brains will grow and they will stop thinking of market value as a scalar.	[12:30]
assbot	Logged on 07-01-2015 02:35:36; asciilifeform: the notion of 'trustworthiness' as a scalar is fundamental to scamatrons of all stripes.	[12:30]
asciilifeform	and yes, convention. newton's laws also make fine convention. until they don't.	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	still do for most applications.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	aha.	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	not a question to be handwaved away.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	as i think anyone living outside africa knows	[12:31]
asciilifeform	anyway bbl, there are trees.	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	later.	[12:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00054754 = 10.5675 BTC [+] {2}	[12:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11306 @ 0.00054518 = 6.1638 BTC [-] {3}	[12:52]
shinohai	prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/ (QT version anyway)	[13:00]
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mircea_popescu	this is good for bitcoin.	[13:12]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.0005441 = 13.5753 BTC [-] {3}	[13:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12541 @ 0.00054323 = 6.8126 BTC [-] {4}	[13:22]
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punkman	/me fixed toilet float with a toothpick	[14:00]
punkman	I wonder wtf the last guy used to secure the float's lever because it must have dissolved	[14:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00054297 = 17.1036 BTC [-] {3}	[14:19]
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oglafbot	http://oglaf.com/chamber/	[14:40]
assbot	Chamber of Commerce ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXuZ6X )	[14:40]
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shinohai	Enjoyed the Qntra story spin too BingoBoingo	[14:51]
BingoBoingo	shinohai: ty, but it's not spin. It is measured outrage.	[14:51]
BingoBoingo	Seriously get a blog and practice.	[14:51]
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BingoBoingo	!up linton_s_dawson	[14:51]
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punkman	http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/ << "total network hashrate estimates around 1.2 TH/s" only two orders of magnitude off	[14:57]
assbot	Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXxgPz )	[14:57]
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shinohai	I am slowly losing any interest in Bitcoin besides a medium for buying drugs.	[14:59]
thestringpuller	why can't we just have nice things...	[15:00]
shinohai	ikr	[15:00]
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BingoBoingo	BITBET NOT ALONE http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47975	[15:02]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )	[15:02]
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punkman	https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zRX5Wt4jHfA/VtUy3ieUilI/AAAAAAAAFcA/lOgxSl7orOo/s1600/0_table_29022016.png	[15:09]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1U4HJ0W )	[15:09]
punkman	https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xtHFMtrXHRk/VtUzs6lRPKI/AAAAAAAAFcY/WFiZG4Ei9Rc/s1600/3_pcnetworkHeatmap2016-02-29.png	[15:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QXzj60 )	[15:12]
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*	mod6 is finally caught up	[15:19]
mod6	interesting discussion today	[15:19]
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thestringpuller	mod6: pm	[15:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.0005422 = 6.9944 BTC [-]	[15:33]
mod6	<+shinohai> prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/ (QT version anyway) << i lel'd.	[15:34]
*	BingoBoingo after much gnashing and wailing beginning to see remaining utility in BTC almost exclusively as bridge to what comes next	[15:37]
BingoBoingo	Whether next thing be beedog coin or arse wallet coin	[15:39]
mod6	i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?	[15:40]
BingoBoingo	It seems to look like name for discussing attributes of hypothetical actual Coin	[15:40]
mod6	As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.	[15:41]
mod6	I feel better about that.	[15:42]
BingoBoingo	Seriously. The initial shock was unnerving, but then again what the fuck else had all the things qntra'd about added up to.	[15:43]
BingoBoingo	Also exciting to se pogo dream may be resurrected.	[15:46]
mod6	I like the idea of possibly incorporating gossip into the mix.	[15:52]
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*	BingoBoingo especially fond of potential to avoid getting locked into cpp-isms	[15:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00054354 = 11.4143 BTC [+]	[16:03]
mod6	BingoBoingo: yah, this too	[16:06]
BingoBoingo	V-ified from actual completely gavin-free origin	[16:07]
BingoBoingo	So what if it takes 5-10 years to gain mass traction as opposed to the couple hours a hardfork crisis would resolve in	[16:08]
mod6	Sure.	[16:15]
BingoBoingo	brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream	[16:16]
mod6	:]	[16:16]
mod6	asciilifeform: did you ever mention a de-facto ADA book?	[16:16]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2015#1031708 << this?	[16:20]
assbot	Logged on 24-02-2015 04:28:49; asciilifeform: just got 'ada 95: the language, reference manual, and standard libraries' ansi/iso/iec-8652:1995 in the post	[16:20]
asciilifeform	mod6: the standard.	[16:20]
mod6	hey thanks	[16:21]
mod6	and as far as 'compilers', you suggest 'red dragon' as opposed to second edition 'purple dragon'?	[16:21]
asciilifeform	ok to get the 2012 or earlier (but not 1983)	[16:21]
*	mod6 mind-as-well round out the library	[16:21]
asciilifeform	dragon or appel	[16:22]
asciilifeform	i prefer dragon (red, with knight)	[16:22]
mod6	ok cool, first edition then.	[16:22]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << iirc that would be... asciilifeform	[16:24]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?	[16:24]
asciilifeform	i forget why.	[16:26]
asciilifeform	!s beedog	[16:26]
assbot	3 results for 'beedog' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=beedog	[16:26]
*	mod6 looks	[16:26]
mod6	yah.	[16:27]
shinohai	>.>	[16:28]
thestringpuller	dragon book is a hard read...	[16:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00054376 = 5.6007 BTC [+]	[16:38]
asciilifeform	i also considered standard-ml	[16:39]
asciilifeform	instead of ada.	[16:39]
mod6	any particular reason(s)?	[16:43]
asciilifeform	in logz	[16:44]
asciilifeform	!s standard ml	[16:45]
assbot	3 results for 'standard ml' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=standard+ml	[16:45]
*	mod6 reads	[16:47]
asciilifeform	i like that there is more than one implementation	[16:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00054376 = 4.3501 BTC [+]	[16:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27708 @ 0.00054394 = 15.0715 BTC [+] {3}	[16:56]
mod6	now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.	[16:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00054478 = 20.8923 BTC [+] {2}	[17:18]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b133	[17:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00054289 = 8.4419 BTC [-] {2}	[17:27]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424171 << lol what could we do that we can't do here..?	[17:27]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 19:56:34; mod6: now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.	[17:27]
asciilifeform	i suppose we could sync onetimepads.	[17:28]
mod6	ah yeah this ^	[17:28]
mod6	but would be cool just to meet and get around and discuss these things infront of a blackboard or whatever.	[17:28]
mod6	i guess we can do all of this here.	[17:29]
mod6	but something to be said for all of us in same room.	[17:29]
*	asciilifeform was half-considering visiting mircea_popescu for tea one weekend, as he suggested last night	[17:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32875 @ 0.00054289 = 17.8475 BTC [-]	[17:30]
mod6	ya, saw that and was thinking the same	[17:30]
asciilifeform	mod6: actually i admit that ~all of us~ in same room always made me a bit uneasy.	[17:31]
asciilifeform	phat target.	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	yeah, not exactly wise.	[17:31]
mod6	fair enough.	[17:31]
asciilifeform	various outfits - e.g. intel - forbid it to key folks.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	even usg used to have such a custom.	[17:32]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << bee-dog was originally a joke re very summary vision (because bees see large pixels and dogs don't see colors). see : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-02-2016#1413916	[17:37]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?	[17:37]
assbot	Logged on 24-02-2016 04:23:11; mircea_popescu: omfg alf sees the world like a bee-dog : in black and white and all pixelated.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	somehow it became a term of endearment for alf and especially alfisms.	[17:37]
mod6	ah	[17:38]
mod6	thx	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	the joke being of course that any serious designer is exactly a bee-dog.	[17:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12483 @ 0.0005422 = 6.7683 BTC [-] {2}	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424127 << this would be correct.	[17:40]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 18:41:13; mod6: As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424138 << yeah but learn a good programming.	[17:41]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 19:15:25; BingoBoingo: brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the weather in b-a fixed itself, tis very pleasant, the steaks still here, by all means.	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i must confess i don't get the latest qntra. wut ?	[17:47]
BingoBoingo	Entering into the record the end of pretending US minor socialist party is a thing.	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	but i mean.. what shooting ? what ?	[17:48]
BingoBoingo	shooting?	[17:48]
BingoBoingo	Oh 2nd most recent, the san bernadino ISIS derps	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	http://qntra.net/2016/03/frontier-county-prosecutor-alleges-circle-jerk-iphone-carries-cyber-pathogens/	[17:49]
assbot	Frontier County Prosecutor Alleges Circle Jerk iPhone Carries "Cyber Pathogens" \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1YjCjQ7 )	[17:49]
BingoBoingo	mundane case of guy and his wife shooting up their workplace	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	oh	[17:50]
BingoBoingo	Why be another allah snackbar weather event when one has a plague to spread is the point?	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	kinda bizarre.	[17:51]
BingoBoingo	California, bizarre by definition	[17:51]
BingoBoingo	Supposedly they are getting a 100 inches of snow soon. Can't fall into the ocean soon enough	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423705 << not all can bee-dog like the pros!	[17:59]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 13:47:13; nubbins`: but this may be a failing on my part	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	and in other bitcoin news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/17e2293db4434f81bc5aa68d643c8c85/tumblr_mgs749gbFs1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[18:07]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TC2dzC )	[18:07]
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asciilifeform	!s yoga master	[18:20]
assbot	1 results for 'yoga master' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yoga+master	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	aha	[18:20]
asciilifeform	'gotta start small!111'	[18:20]
*	Keefe_ is now known as Keefe	[18:22]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[18:30]
nubbins`	asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered	[18:30]
punkman	https://forum.transmissionbt.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17834	[18:34]
assbot	OSX.KeRanger.A malware in 2.90? - Transmission ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5AXa )	[18:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16126 @ 0.00054229 = 8.745 BTC [+]	[18:34]
punkman	http://researchcenter.paloaltonetworks.com/2016/03/new-os-x-ransomware-keranger-infected-transmission-bittorrent-client-installer/	[18:35]
assbot	New OS X Ransomware KeRanger Infected Transmission BitTorrent Client Installer - Palo Alto Networks BlogPalo Alto Networks Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5HCf )	[18:35]
nubbins`	lule	[18:36]
nubbins`	that's up there with linux mint serving up bogus ISOs	[18:37]
nubbins`	"The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."	[18:38]
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nubbins`	certificate was from this company: http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=47015181	[18:41]
assbot	Polisan Boya San. ve Tic. A.S.: Private Company Information - Businessweek ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC6iUo )	[18:41]
nubbins`	which prob had a developer account for pushing bespoke apps to company handsets	[18:42]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424225 << ty nubbins` , will do when i get home	[18:53]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 21:29:36; nubbins`: asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered	[18:53]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd.	[18:55]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 21:38:23; nubbins`: "The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."	[18:55]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423761 << nubbins` will be pleased to learn that this is pet's favourite 'ever' thing from the logz.	[19:00]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2016 14:06:31; nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg	[19:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14599 @ 0.00054221 = 7.9157 BTC [-] {3}	[19:05]
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ben_vulpes	http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116719 << sig(digest, pkey). this does nothing for the transacting protocol, but ensures that the device that mined a block /also/ has the privkey for the block subsidy.	[19:15]
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assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYjVgd )	[19:15]
nubbins`	<+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd. << indeed	[19:24]
*	nubbins` was "ios developer" for short stint, earned a free ipad from sales of app	[19:25]
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nubbins`	!up CrazyTruthYakDDS	[19:32]
*	assbot gives voice to CrazyTruthYakDDS	[19:32]
nubbins`	wow, i've been an ebay member since 1999	[19:35]
nubbins`	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142879.msg14088674#msg14088674	[19:41]
assbot	KLYEMAX T-Shirt Fundraiser ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvB2jG )	[19:41]
nubbins`	"really proud of klye for [selling t-shirts calling himself a fuckup in an attempt to recoup blistering losses from an earlier scam]"	[19:42]
nubbins`	fuck this planet	[19:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.0005433 = 21.895 BTC [+] {4}	[19:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00054211 = 19.4617 BTC [-] {4}	[19:58]
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deedbot-	[Qntra] Ransomware Comes To OSX Bittorrent Client - http://qntra.net/2016/03/ransomware-comes-to-osx-bittorrent-client/	[20:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11704 @ 0.0005439 = 6.3658 BTC [+] {2}	[20:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32608 @ 0.00054531 = 17.7815 BTC [+]	[20:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84475 @ 0.00054571 = 46.0989 BTC [+] {2}	[21:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00054572 = 21.8288 BTC [+]	[21:40]
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thestringpuller	"Using 21's bitnodes service, we determined that 1037 classic nodes are hosted using Amazon's AWS. "	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	the two buck bitcoin fork.,	[21:45]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.	[21:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1p0RO2U )	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	check it out - someone is using lisp for something!	[21:46]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40114 @ 0.0005453 = 21.8742 BTC [-] {2}	[21:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00054519 = 23.0615 BTC [-]	[22:13]
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deedbot-	[Trilema] The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/	[22:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00054299 = 22.154 BTC [-] {2}	[22:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.0005421 = 37.5133 BTC [-] {4}	[22:36]
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jurov	TIL eulora reached homeostasis? LOL	[22:41]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424263 << looks neato	[22:49]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 00:45:43; mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.	[22:49]
asciilifeform	but i have nfi what it does...	[22:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.0005421 = 15.233 BTC [-] {3}	[22:54]
jurov	it sometimes crashes, of course :D	[22:55]
jurov	but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?	[22:56]
jurov	that would be some bedrock	[22:56]
jurov	because on C mechine, succumbing to various kinds of magic colored pointer unions is practical necessity.. so ada type safety should help	[22:58]
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jurov	!up p15	[23:04]
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nubbins`	http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 << FTR i thought this was obv the case upon reading the article and was baffled as to why it took so long for someone to mention.	[23:15]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )	[23:15]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.85477620 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b134	[23:17]
nubbins`	does this come with an absolute guarantee that i am not responsible for anything past raw tx, and if it never gets included, bettor is out the money, because i will not under any circumstances repay it ? << lel better not stick with 0-fee tx if you're gonna go that route.	[23:22]
nubbins`	"bitbet, where payouts are literally the lowest priority"	[23:23]
nubbins`	"bitbet, where we don't have nine cents to spare"	[23:25]
nubbins`	whoever constructed A1 should be relieved of their duties	[23:26]
danielpbarron	fee is not required if inputs are sufficiently old enough, which in this case they appear to have been	[23:27]
nubbins`	sure, if the mempool hadn't been olympic sized	[23:28]
nubbins`	nexus pass is not required if there's no lineup at the airport	[23:29]
nubbins`	still gotta fight through the crowds to get to the gate	[23:29]
nubbins`	if you're traveling on xmas	[23:30]
danielpbarron	i guess this falls into the "well what the heck is the protocol, oh right there isn't one" category. How do you know a miner will choose a high fee tx over a high priority tx?	[23:30]
nubbins`	you know after the fact, it turns out	[23:31]
jurov	cuz satoshi coded it so?	[23:31]
jurov	and miners haven't touched it?	[23:31]
jurov	is that tooo far fetched notion?	[23:32]
nubbins`	if there's only so much space in a block for 0-fee tx's, and the mempool is overflowing, obviously it's gonna take days for your 0-fee tx to get put into a block, even if everyone knows about it	[23:32]
nubbins`	and since it's in the queue, you can make as many As as you like	[23:32]
nubbins`	Aoo, even	[23:32]
BingoBoingo	http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116722	[23:33]
nubbins`	all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats	[23:33]
assbot	The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYAbOv )	[23:33]
*	Peter_Geschel has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:33]
*	Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[23:33]
*	assbot removes voice from p15	[23:34]
*	Pasha (~C@unaffiliated/cory) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:34]
jurov	!t m x.eur	[23:38]
assbot	[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00256252 / 0.00259952 / 0.00262899 (553 shares, 1.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259055 / 0.00262899 (1903 shares, 4.93 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)	[23:38]
nubbins`	a 0-fee tx during a mempool flood is like expecting to hitch a free ride from turkey to macedonia	[23:38]
jurov	;;calc 1/0.00370358	[23:38]
gribble	270.009018301	[23:38]
*	Pasha is now known as Cory	[23:38]
jurov	whotf puts these asks on x.eur	[23:39]
danielpbarron	i don't see how a "mempool flood" should effect a high priority transaction.. or was the flooder sophisticated enough to have created all the inputs long ago so that they too would be high priority?	[23:40]
jurov	mkay, flipped. this ersatz marketmaking is quite ejoyable	[23:41]
nubbins`	listen, i'm a high priority customer at Mr. Rooter	[23:41]
nubbins`	but if three other high priority taco lovers clog their toilets first, i'm waiting in line	[23:42]
jurov	You could have got x.eur from me with only 2% fee over vwap and flipped them at these insane prices!	[23:42]
danielpbarron	jurov, how to do that? ask you here?	[23:43]
jurov	i am accepting transferwise	[23:43]
danielpbarron	ah actual euros	[23:44]
jurov	for wot members	[23:44]
jurov	yes, send me 102 euros, get 100 x.eur	[23:44]
danielpbarron	well it's pretty obvious to me what caused the insane prices. "divestment"	[23:44]
nubbins`	or, y'know, a cartel blowing their cover by fucking with bitbet payouts.	[23:44]
nubbins`	SEEMS JUST AS LIKELY.	[23:44]
danielpbarron	not people who want euros, so much as they ~don't want~ bitcoin, and don't want to touch actual fiat	[23:44]
jurov	lmao. but they could have pestered davout to get much better price from his bot instead	[23:45]
nubbins`	i feel bad carrying on but this is seriously the highest lelevator i've ever been in	[23:45]
nubbins`	i cannot see the ground!	[23:46]
*	amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	nubbins`> http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 << FTR i thought this was obv the case << because it's neither obvious nor the case.	[23:46]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )	[23:46]
*	paxtoncamaro91 (~paxtoncam@unaffiliated/paxtoncamaro91) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:46]
nubbins`	how ya figure, because the logic doesn't follow	[23:46]
nubbins`	("you don't get to say what the logic is! &c")	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	but congrats on being the nth lazy thinker who has a simple theory in his head, cut ~80% of the facts or so that fit it, and is ready to reddit about the matter.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	i'm sure it'll bring greatness to canada or w/e.	[23:47]
*	CrazyTruthYakDDS (uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvptajkfnpysnzef) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:47]
nubbins`	you're sniffing glue if you think a cartel withholding bitbet payouts is the simplest explanation	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	nubbins`> all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats << except the part where these nodes would also advertise it, which they didn't do. and except for the part where nodes that keep txn forever are am yth. and except for anything actually to do with reality, as opposed to some cartoon someone saw last year on tedspeak or w/e.	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` we had this thread. make your own theory, CROSSING ALL THE POINTS.	[23:49]
nubbins`	advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to "here is what i opine - i know all about huffing glue because, practically speaking, it's what i do all day".	[23:49]
nubbins`	accepting but not advertising them -- isn't	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	w/e.	[23:50]
nubbins`	and nodes don't have to keep tx's "forever", we're talking two days max between rebroadcasts.	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	the facts are there, write your explanation for them and spare me.	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	we're talking about ~8 days.	[23:50]
nubbins`	yes, 4 tx's over 8 days	[23:50]
nubbins`	;;calc 8/4	[23:50]
gribble	2	[23:50]
nubbins`	^	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	so a1 blocked a2, then a2 blocked a3 then a3 blocked a4 ?	[23:51]
nubbins`	haha	[23:51]
nubbins`	jesus	[23:51]
nubbins`	no.	[23:51]
nubbins`	use your reading comprehension skills	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	so a1 blocked a2, 3 and 4 because it sat in pool for 8 days because reasons ?	[23:51]
nubbins`	a1 blocked a2	[23:51]
nubbins`	then a1 blocked a3	[23:51]
nubbins`	then a1 blocked a4	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	because a1 was still around 4 days later ? whyssat ?	[23:51]
nubbins`	because there was a lineup for the cheap seats because of the mempool flood	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	...	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	that made no sense. try again using meaningful words this time.	[23:52]
nubbins`	no	[23:52]
nubbins`	you try again	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	right.	[23:53]
nubbins`	like talking to a bag of hammers	[23:53]
*	Guest12566 (~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:53]
*	Peter_Geschel (~Peter_Ges@94.102.50.47) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	apparently the way the internet works [according to idiots] is that one guy that knows about things by virtue of being one of the guys that actually do things describes some facts, and is now obliged to entertain the half-baked idiocy of any random opiner.	[23:53]
nubbins`	^ stopped reading after "according"	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	whatever. keep your ideas, i don't want them nor do they carry any value.	[23:53]
nubbins`	do you suppose maybe there were other 0-fee high priority transactions floating around at that time? hmm? check out a graph of the mempool size	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	dude... seriously, stick to printing or w/e it is you understand.	[23:54]
nubbins`	i like how when you run out of logical rebuttals it's all "dude" and "srsly, just w/e"	[23:55]
nubbins`	try another one!	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	there's no "logical rebuttal". you have some facts, go write a theory. maybe i'll bother reading it. seeing who it comes from, probably not. that's all.	[23:56]
nubbins`	"no, you don't get it, MY zero-fee transaction should have taken priority because reasons"	[23:56]
nubbins`	lel, "go write a theory"	[23:56]
nubbins`!@	added to ignore list.	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.	[23:59]

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