Forum logs for 07 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam. [00:02]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [00:02]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.nubbins`.-1:2f86f1e0d27e296c65d393c3735b6596cc002265d63e3fc387f97968b5b46f24 [00:02]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam. [00:02]
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mircea_popescu you'll be on my ignore list. if you actually have something to say find a lord to play telephone, but ideally spare me. [00:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054113 = 18.0196 BTC [-] {3} [00:06]
jurov that escalated quickly [00:06]
mircea_popescu if i wanted to talk to redditards i'd make a reddit account. [00:07]
jurov So, w're back to mp and alf being 80% i guess. [00:11]
mircea_popescu plenty o' room for idea guys all over the webs. [00:12]
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mircea_popescu in more practical news - jurov here's one for you. is to be resolved. problem is the res source gives vote % and not a word re seats, and the bet is re seats. [00:18]
assbot BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.87 B (38%) on Yes, 1.42 B (62%) on No | closed 3 days 3 hours ago ... ( ) [00:19]
mircea_popescu is there a good source to document how you convert from these ? [00:19]
jurov doh, they are incredibly slow.. there is "allocation of seats" link but they have not done it yet. [00:20]
mircea_popescu alrighty. so then it waits. [00:20]
mircea_popescu not to even speak of [00:20]
assbot BitBet - Mariano Rajoy to remain PM of Spain after December Election :: 0.21 B (78%) on Yes, 0.06 B (22%) on No | closed 2 months 3 weeks ago ... ( ) [00:20]
mircea_popescu believe it or not IN FUCKING MARCH the spanyards do not yet rightly know whether that fucktard won or not the december election. [00:20]
* trinque settles in to catch up on a weekend of l0gz [00:21]
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jurov trinque: prepare several buckets of popcorn [00:23]
BingoBoingo and gnashing and wailing, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. Also touch of denial mixed in. [00:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00054054 = 12.054 BTC [-] {3} [00:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35351 @ 0.00054005 = 19.0913 BTC [-] {4} [00:49]
jurov mircea_popescu: to mpex pls [00:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00054332 = 15.3216 BTC [+] {2} [02:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.0005396 = 8.6336 BTC [-] {4} [02:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00053958 = 6.367 BTC [-] {2} [02:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22780 @ 0.00053958 = 12.2916 BTC [-] [02:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.0005387 = 10.9625 BTC [-] {4} [02:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39753 @ 0.00053843 = 21.4042 BTC [-] {3} [02:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44948 @ 0.00053743 = 24.1564 BTC [-] {2} [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00053734 = 12.2395 BTC [-] {3} [02:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00054122 = 20.5664 BTC [+] {2} [03:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.00054285 = 22.5283 BTC [+] {2} [03:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4143 @ 0.00054122 = 2.2423 BTC [-] [03:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22863 @ 0.00053687 = 12.2745 BTC [-] {3} [04:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27522 @ 0.00053685 = 14.7752 BTC [-] {3} [04:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00053673 = 17.068 BTC [-] {4} [04:20]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18435 @ 0.0005363 = 9.8867 BTC [-] {2} [04:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21065 @ 0.00053618 = 11.2946 BTC [-] {2} [04:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00053576 = 10.5545 BTC [-] {4} [04:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00053646 = 10.1391 BTC [+] [05:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.0005357 = 8.6516 BTC [-] {4} [05:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57254 @ 0.00053547 = 30.6578 BTC [-] {2} [06:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00053668 = 17.7909 BTC [+] {2} [06:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44200 @ 0.00053547 = 23.6678 BTC [-] [06:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54877 @ 0.00053544 = 29.3833 BTC [-] {2} [06:51]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.000537 = 14.6601 BTC [+] [06:57]
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punkman "You are using GnuPG version 1.4.12, which is not supported anymore. Enigmail requires GnuPG version 2.0.7 or newer. Please upgrade your GnuPG installation, or Enigmail will not work" [07:16]
punkman not like I used it anyway but annoying [07:17]
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deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - [07:51]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.0005346 = 30.793 BTC [-] {4} [08:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00053427 = 12.1279 BTC [-] {2} [08:48]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52257 @ 0.00053565 = 27.9915 BTC [+] [09:05]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan. [09:10]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [09:14]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 2 to -1 with note: tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid. [09:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46350 @ 0.00053421 = 24.7606 BTC [-] {2} [09:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62443 @ 0.00053565 = 33.4476 BTC [+] [09:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8999 @ 0.00053609 = 4.8243 BTC [+] [09:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00053791 = 30.4457 BTC [+] {4} [09:46]
shinohai ;;ticker --market all [09:49]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 5166.35971885 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.934, vol: 7021.9455 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 13974.58828093 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 408.0, vol: 1.20992211 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.4288, vol: 52510.01710000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 408.494, vol: 1300.31356398 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 410.81265, vol: 235.90882398 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [09:49]
shinohai ;;more [09:49]
gribble 416.52671852 [09:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21620 @ 0.00053609 = 11.5903 BTC [-] {2} [09:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00053609 = 3.699 BTC [-] [09:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33495 @ 0.00053609 = 17.9563 BTC [-] [10:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.0005392 = 2.5882 BTC [+] {2} [10:18]
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danielpbarron nubbins`, it looks like you're the one throwing a tantrum, and it "shouldn't work that way" is the general complaint in here against bitcoin for some time now. this event was more like the last straw kinda thing [10:22]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan. [10:25]
kakobrekla i dont think it did. [10:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 396 @ 0.00271748 = 1.0761 BTC [-] {2} [10:29]
danielpbarron i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it [10:32]
danielpbarron it's not like the code is something wonderful to behold. The only thing it had going for it was that some important people found a use in it for a time [10:34]
shinohai Not a lord here, but I have a lot of time invested in trb and I agree with danielpbarron. [10:34]
shinohai Eventually one has to stop building with legos and mve on to more robust materials. [10:35]
kakobrekla actually this somewhat fixes "bitcoin is too accessible" as the requirements to include tx in a block are having your own block producing setup [10:36]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block. [10:37]
kakobrekla obv its not accessible to me! [10:37]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan. [10:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00053591 = 17.2295 BTC [-] {4} [10:38]
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asciilifeform nubbins`: the point re: mpex is valid imho. [10:39]
asciilifeform it did not explain mircea_popescu's observations though [10:40]
asciilifeform gotta explain the resurrected tx, no? [10:41]
asciilifeform i saw same thing when sending a lee sedol bet a few wks ago [10:41]
punkman gotta explain why the 0fee tx wasn't visible in anyone's mempool for days, although I don't know how exactly mp examined the mempools and of which nodes he was connecting to [10:42]
shinohai Also has been seen by outside source according to: [10:42]
assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( ) [10:42]
asciilifeform (and here was even the high-S thing also involved) [10:42]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:49:05; nubbins`: advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack [10:42]
punkman the fact it was resurrected is not surprising if you ask me [10:42]
asciilifeform punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel [10:43]
asciilifeform punkman: i have nfi , ask him when he wakes up [10:43]
asciilifeform !s reactor test [10:44]
assbot 2 results for 'reactor test' : [10:44]
asciilifeform ^ see above. [10:44]
punkman anyway if someone can replicate the experiment with similarly old coins, that would not favor the bitbet-screwed-by-miners theory [10:46]
jurov i can offer coinbr users' coins for the experiments... seems using users' funds is en vogue [10:48]
asciilifeform one more thing. careful readers of the logz will have noticed that the cn miners have openly admitted collusion [10:49]
asciilifeform i.e. gatherings for whatever purpose [10:49]
asciilifeform all but the resurrection [10:50]
asciilifeform this was one of mp's accusations actually [10:51]
asciilifeform no?! [10:52]
asciilifeform that was his point, no? that the scum took over. [10:52]
asciilifeform try, make? except that spamola temperature seems to be low today [10:54]
asciilifeform nubbins`: most of them are spam [10:54]
asciilifeform and in fact chained crud [10:54]
asciilifeform nubbins`: how so? [10:55]
asciilifeform did it have unconfirmed inputs? No [10:56]
asciilifeform how does something that ~follows~ a tx make it spam? [10:56]
asciilifeform the usual way? [10:57]
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asciilifeform age of inputs ? [10:58]
asciilifeform i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it? [10:58]
asciilifeform sure. but do we have a reason to think this was done? [10:59]
asciilifeform if it actually had 'days old' input, then this was reactor test. [10:59]
asciilifeform but the resurrection still has to be explained. [11:00]
* asciilifeform bbl [11:00]
davout asciilifeform: any bitbet recipient had a strong incentive to rebroadcast, as soon as the second transaction actually paid them [11:03]
davout not sure what makes you say that the tx reappearing needs any kind of explanation other than "people like extra money" [11:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31575 @ 0.00053402 = 16.8617 BTC [-] {2} [11:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9474 @ 0.00053402 = 5.0593 BTC [-] [11:15]
danielpbarron asciilifeform> i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it? << [11:16]
assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( ) [11:16]
danielpbarron nubbins`> again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1 << isn't this a "glass canon" as in, can only be fired once? How many nubbins` are out there with cannons? It costs money to assemble this weapon in short order. You have it from years of doing business. [11:18]
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shinohai [11:29]
assbot NYC District Attorney Conducts Biased, Unsecured Survey About How Encryption Hurts Police  ... ( ) [11:30]
shinohai "Anyone can access it and submit answers, which means that anyone can impersonate a police officer, prosecutor, or other law enforcement official." [11:30]
danielpbarron i'm just going by what you said [11:35]
danielpbarron that wasn't my implication. I meant " [11:35]
danielpbarron "how many nubbins`" in an endearing way [11:36]
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danielpbarron yes [11:36]
danielpbarron i suppose that there are plenty of groups, including miners, who would like to interfere with #bitcoin-assets properties [11:37]
danielpbarron if what i'm a part of isn't as big as my estimation, I don't care for bitcoin anyway. So whatever. [11:38]
danielpbarron you got your bouquinism and I got my Bible. I just hope other people have their things or it can get pretty depressing [11:39]
danielpbarron regarding this hypothesis that miners are socking away a percentage, why then do most coin bases have a single output? [11:41]
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danielpbarron as far as i know, the only pool taking advantage of the ability to create as many outputs as you want in a coin base is Luke-Jr's Eligius [11:41]
danielpbarron yeah but why not just do it in the first place? even older. [11:42]
danielpbarron well that's what Eligius does, or did last i looked into it [11:43]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [11:43]
davout danielpbarron: just because Luke-Jr does it doesn't necessarily make it sensible [11:44]
adlai p2pool does this, too [11:44]
mircea_popescu and welcome to the wonder of halfway logs. sigh. [11:44]
mircea_popescu davout whatever happened to xeur bot yest [11:44]
gribble sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy [11:44]
davout danielpbarron: also splitting coinbases directly hurts the miner's bottom line [11:44]
gribble enjoy following the convo [11:44]
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adlai splitting coinbases only makes sense for pools which actually have multiple workers [11:45]
adlai (in which case, it *helps* the bottom line, sparing the cost of payout txen) [11:46]
davout mircea_popescu: not sure what you're referring to? [11:46]
mircea_popescu !s marketmaking from:jurov [11:46]
assbot 5 results for 'marketmaking from:jurov' : [11:46]
davout mircea_popescu: these weren't me [11:47]
mircea_popescu ... [11:47]
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davout bot was down last night too obviously [11:49]
danielpbarron you got a blog, go investigate the age of flood inputs and write it up; i'll read it [11:50]
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mircea_popescu hence my question :) [11:51]
mircea_popescu jurov approved. [11:52]
danielpbarron nubbins`, you should write it up for the sake of changing the minds of people who are so far not impressed with your unsubstantiated claims in the channel [11:54]
mircea_popescu check it out, 3 minute inclusion. [11:56]
mircea_popescu this is novel, even for 600byte txn with above-average fees and 10^10 size inputs aged halfyear+ [11:57]
trinque who the fuck cares what amuses you, and how does that illuminate the issue? [11:59]
trinque this level of discourse is what's shameful. [11:59]
mircea_popescu so yes, for the sake of keeping the record straight - it is not possible for miners to include my (high-S, btw!) txn in blocks within 2:55 if in fact running a chain head delayed reporting scheme. either it got turned off or it never existed in the first place, anyone's call. [12:00]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan. [12:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00053622 = 5.818 BTC [+] [12:02]
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trinque regardless, it's a fine way to go forward. [12:09]
trinque I've read all the l0gz [12:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15773 @ 0.00053402 = 8.4231 BTC [-] [12:09]
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mircea_popescu adlai there's some historical charge in there : bitcoin's first and largest ponzi ran a "mining" whatever, for the obvious and transparent purpose of acquiring freshly minted coins to pay out the idiot "investors". this was a major contributor to the early crystalisation of what came to be known later as "mining pools" which is what eventually in due time coallesced into today's problem. whether it was avoidable at all [12:10]
mircea_popescu or not is dubious, but that aside pirate's gpumax certainly played a major early role. [12:10]
mircea_popescu people didn't use to split coinbases because they preferred to sell them, for 103% or w/e. [12:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13027 @ 0.00053399 = 6.9563 BTC [-] {2} [12:11]
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shinohai !s S.BBET february statement [12:19]
assbot 2 results for 'S.BBET february statement' : [12:19]
hanbot nubbins' your projectile posturing isn't particularly useful. mp told you, i count two? three times? yest how to form your thoughts into something reviewable. [12:21]
trinque this is what I meant about the level of discourse. I have not declared myself a "fan" of anything. [12:21]
hanbot you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer? [12:21]
trinque there is a scientific way to criticize a claim. [12:21]
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* assbot gives voice to dooglus [12:30]
danielpbarron hi dooglus [12:31]
dooglus hi [12:31]
dooglus I was looking at trb, and trying to sync it from my bitcoin core node [12:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37083 @ 0.00053694 = 19.9113 BTC [+] {3} [12:32]
mircea_popescu -addnode ? [12:32]
dooglus I notice core won't talk to it for long before cutting it off [12:32]
dooglus is this a known issue? [12:32]
mircea_popescu what version is this ? [12:32]
dooglus it has a lot of 9's [12:32]
mircea_popescu no, the "core" [12:33]
dooglus "receive version message: / version 99999" and - um - 0.12? [12:33]
mircea_popescu hm. and you have these two running on the same machine, or within a local net ? [12:34]
dooglus core doesn't like messages bigger than 2MB, and trb sends ~7MB messages [12:34]
dooglus that's why it's getting disconnected. both on the same machine [12:34]
mircea_popescu something which may be related if not outright this is known here as blackholing [12:34]
mircea_popescu !s blackholed [12:34]
assbot 24 results for 'blackholed' : [12:34]
dooglus (with -port and -rpcport, on separate users) [12:34]
mircea_popescu it'd be interesting if you managed to reproduce it in the lab. [12:34]
trinque could also be the malleus patch if that version of prb issues heathen commands [12:35]
mircea_popescu mod6 trinque asciilifeform ^ prob of interest. [12:35]
dooglus see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ; [12:35]
mircea_popescu trinque but he said it cuts the other way. [12:35]
dooglus commenting out that part fixed it for me - they talk happily now [12:35]
trinque ah [12:35]
mircea_popescu !rated dooglus [12:35]
assbot You have not rated dooglus. [12:35]
mircea_popescu no wai ?! [12:35]
dooglus GetDistanceBack() is huge, causing it to try requesting 100k's of headers at once [12:36]
dooglus you unpersoned me because CLAM [12:36]
mircea_popescu !rate dooglus 2 ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing. [12:36]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [12:36]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.dooglus.2:3c6c25e386479486e1de0e81ec42ca24bfd40f96aa16d1252b39ca9e7d5e8af3 [12:36]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for dooglus with note: ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing. [12:36]
mircea_popescu utter pity what happened to jd. [12:37]
dooglus oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel? [12:39]
dooglus 'cos it did... [12:39]
* TrueBanker (ac0ff05c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:39]
trinque dooglus: yep, it is using buildroot to have a deterministic build environment [12:39]
mircea_popescu !up TrueBanker [12:39]
-assbot- You voiced TrueBanker for 30 minutes. [12:39]
* assbot gives voice to TrueBanker [12:39]
mircea_popescu dooglus yeah. it's fully encapsulated, initial idea was to run it on pogos. [12:40]
mircea_popescu well.. actually that's still the idea, just we ended up running around with all sorts of subquests that turned mainline. [12:40]
shinohai I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing. [12:41]
mircea_popescu i sitll have crates of the things in storage that will one day sing. [12:42]
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assbot ... ( ) [12:43]
dooglus nubbins`: yes, I believe so. this appears to fix it: [12:43]
assbot dpaste: 0FFDMQT ... ( ) [12:43]
assbot ... ( ) [12:43]
deedbot- [Trilema] Eulora auction, March 13th - [12:43]
shinohai mircea_popescu: I wound up buying 3 thanks to mats, had considered more lol [12:43]
hanbot nubbins' what again? didn't you just bitch at someone over not giving a link to what they claim happened? take a breather, preferably a long one, and figure your own shit out. you're smelling. [12:44]
mircea_popescu fortunately with that asshole mp killing moore's law, not terrible danger of pogos ever not being worth the 10 bux or w/e they cost. [12:45]
shinohai lol [12:45]
* linton_s_dawson (linton_s_d@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-rutnkdrcvhhalzbm) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:45]
hanbot jesus already. get lost. [12:45]
assbot S.BBET last 3000@0.00008301 ... ( ) [12:45]
dooglus see commit 85ea8b4f4380dac803d43cd0b7829b107cc09e38 in core : "Limit getheaders to a hard 2000" - fixes the issue there [12:47]
* joesmoe has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [12:47]
mircea_popescu well... really, it CREATES an issue. [12:47]
mircea_popescu it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense. [12:47]
gribble creates an issue [12:47]
assbot ... ( ) [12:48]
mircea_popescu and any "node" running that crap is ipso facto and for this non-compliant with bitcoin [12:48]
dooglus this isn't creating the protocol limit of 2MB - that's elsewhere [12:48]
mircea_popescu of course not. [12:48]
mircea_popescu this is breaking bitcoin in some other edge. [12:48]
danielpbarron nubbins`, [12:49]
assbot irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [12:49]
assbot #bitcoin-assets rules and regulations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [12:49]
dooglus but ... but ... the protocol is whatever core does! didn't you hear? [12:49]
mircea_popescu never heard. [12:49]
mircea_popescu possibly on account of all the heralds of that idiocy getting shot. [12:49]
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trinque nubbins`: got an axe to grind with everyone now? [12:50]
* shinohai pops popcorn. [12:50]
* MobGod is now known as Mob [12:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22709 @ 0.00053452 = 12.1384 BTC [-] [12:54]
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asciilifeform << this is not actually correct, it should build only gcc and toolchain, then trb. [12:56]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:38:44; dooglus: oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel? [12:56]
asciilifeform something likely went wrong with his buildroot bringup. [12:57]
asciilifeform << if we plug the 1) blockindex crap (see logz) and 2) idiot tx-sticks-around-forever leaks - pogos sing. [12:58]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:40:39; shinohai: I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing. [12:58]
asciilifeform << how this will be settled ? pistols at dawn ? gladiators ? [13:00]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:08; nubbins`: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla : [13:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform which blockindex was this ? [13:00]
shinohai Nothing says Republic like gladitorial combat! :D [13:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my experiment where i determined that : [13:01]
asciilifeform !s 300 bytes [13:01]
assbot 4 results for '300 bytes' : [13:01]
asciilifeform this was the smaller leak. in the sense where i quantified it ~exactly~, algebraically. [13:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14562 @ 0.00053523 = 7.794 BTC [+] {2} [13:01]
mircea_popescu ah ah [13:02]
mircea_popescu unbound memory yeah. [13:02]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [13:02]
gribble Current Blocks: 401587 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1612 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [13:02]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 300 * 401587 [13:02]
gribble 120476100 [13:02]
mircea_popescu that's a large pogo rigt there. [13:02]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall eatblock ? [13:03]
mircea_popescu yeah [13:03]
asciilifeform i created it for this test. [13:03]
mircea_popescu anyway. 2 has a much more obvious solution, if as discussed not exactly trivial and wtf are fibonacci stacks. [13:03]
mircea_popescu this however - you will conceivably need some sort of block indexing mechanism. [13:03]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: [13:04]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 19:57:56; asciilifeform: [13:04]
mircea_popescu i meant it figuratively! [13:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: permanently parking things in ram is retarded. [13:04]
mircea_popescu well it's certainly voiding the warranty, as that's not what the ram is for. [13:04]
asciilifeform ram exists as cache of disk. [13:04]
* PeterL (~peter@unaffiliated/peterl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:05]
mircea_popescu (imagine, as a subtopic, the wonder of computing if hardware came with guarantee "unless used for uinappropiate purpose" and then coders had to write code that didn't void any warranties.) [13:05]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [13:05]
asciilifeform if warranties were still a thing. [13:06]
asciilifeform they sorta died away when hardware became largely disposable crud. [13:06]
asciilifeform nubbins`: imho the shareholders have a legit complaint re: the reactor test, and ought to be told why/what/etc. but i'm not a s.bbet shareholder, and nobody asked me (tm) etc. [13:07]
PeterL for the record, I agree with nubbins` about bitbet transction [13:08]
asciilifeform i'm wondering if mircea_popescu is not in a position similar to the familiar murder mystery detective, where he ~knows~ that dr. evil did the deed, but cannot prove. [13:08]
asciilifeform (or cannot prove without blowing up a glass cannon) [13:09]
* asciilifeform goes and reads the bbet broadcast [13:10]
asciilifeform nubbins`: were you heare for the onetimepad thread ? [13:10]
asciilifeform *here [13:10]
mircea_popescu the shareholders can have all the legit complaints they want, about anything that happens whatsoever. we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya about our legit complaints that bitcoin doesn't work, and we would like it to, and it should be fixed by other people at their expense so we can continue our lifestyle undeterred. meanwhile - nonvoting shares can be sold, and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual [13:10]
mircea_popescu gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it. [13:10]
PeterL mircea_popescu made a stupid mistake, and now he makes the shareholders pay for it [13:11]
mircea_popescu and i suppose i'm going to have my own legit complaints about how much this thing costs to run, and start billing by the hour, and in fiat, and the legit complainers can run off to the bank with their bitcoin and pay, or somesuch nonsense. [13:11]
gribble don't like fraud? sell your shares [13:11]
mircea_popescu PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it. [13:12]
gribble don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses [13:12]
mircea_popescu this is the definition of these terms. [13:12]
PeterL and when the ceo of a company consitently makes mistakes, he gets fired [13:13]
mircea_popescu by all means. hence, " and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it." [13:13]
asciilifeform where is kakobrekla ? i thought he was ceo of bbet ? [13:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts. [13:14]
asciilifeform ah [13:14]
PeterL nubbins` yes [13:17]
dooglus I'm new to this whole bitbet payout mess, but read somewhere that the 'B' transaction was made after receiving advice to do so. Who advised it, and why? [13:17]
mircea_popescu wasn't publicly shared. [13:18]
dooglus oh, ok [13:18]
mircea_popescu but the somewhere'd be prolly qntra i'd guess. [13:18]
asciilifeform from the sturles thread, i learned that most idiot nodes are set up to ignore what they think is 'double spend' on purely chronological what-i-saw-first grounds. and mircea_popescu was mighty pissed, and i also (to me, this was new, i do not habitually track prbism) [13:19]
dooglus I expect so. I was also trying to find the 16% referenced in [13:19]
assbot Logged on 03-03-2016 16:18:56; mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool. [13:19]
PeterL there is no spec, they can order transactions in whichever way they want [13:19]
mircea_popescu this is a minor point. there are better bits. such as - that an transaction known but not advertised constitutes the simple definition of "transaction withholding". [13:19]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - [13:19]
mircea_popescu also a minor point, but at least relevant re protocol discussion. [13:20]
dooglus because it seems unlikely to be true. A1 had an uncommonly high priority, way over 100 million [13:20]
PeterL nubbins` I guess bitbet is not keeping a 100% reserve of bets now? [13:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imho the relevant bit here is that we (at least i) do not know ~who~ withheld it, and then exhumed and transmitted it, and why [13:20]
asciilifeform it could have easily been a node operator. [13:20]
asciilifeform when mircea_popescu said 'miners' i assumed he had intelligence pointing in that direction. [13:21]
mircea_popescu initially i thought that "nodes" is a meaningful term, but what i see now is a large ball of node with a bunch of sattelites that have ~ no importance flattering themselves into thinking they're part of a network. [13:21]
PeterL so B should not be counted against bitbets funds if it was not bitbet money [13:21]
mircea_popescu sort-of like us electoral process works. [13:21]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i thought this was quite apparent long ago [13:22]
asciilifeform ball of node + dryer lint [13:22]
mircea_popescu besides the point - it is a factual matter now. [13:22]
mircea_popescu somehow the difference between this and that keeps getting elided. [13:22]
mircea_popescu as if everyone's a little bit everything and it all evens out or something, dunno. [13:23]
asciilifeform nubbins`: consider this: [13:24]
mircea_popescu but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact. [13:24]
asciilifeform you are on a nuke sub. captain, having been informed by six different crew members that reactor coolant has been replaced with pisswater, and the valve gaskets - with chewing gum, gives in to the temptation to run a test. [13:25]
PeterL the qntra article is illogical and jumps to the conclusion you want, ignoring the simplest explanation [13:25]
asciilifeform the thing begins to melt. [13:25]
mircea_popescu PeterL this statement would be a lot less ridiculous had the "simplest explanation" been actually formed as the article even encourages the reader to do! [13:25]
asciilifeform want to fight with captain? pump bilgewater to cool down the rods ? [13:25]
asciilifeform i have nfi. i'm not even on the sub. [13:26]
mircea_popescu but, time's not wasted, go forth and write down your proposed simplest explanation. [13:26]
mircea_popescu with any luck it'll be something like "miner cartel, what a ridiculous idea - not like the anon derps involved are a) known to be idiots and b) have certain incentive do do exactly this! moreover, the much simpler explanation is that... uh... uh... mp conspiracy! and scam! and fraud! and he doesn't care about bitcoin! and i'm an idiot that'll show him!!11" [13:27]
mircea_popescu wtf is this shit even. [13:27]
PeterL can you not see sturle's comment, seems the most logical to me? [13:28]
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mircea_popescu we discussed this that same day he made it. plox to check your copy of the logs. [13:28]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan. [13:28]
PeterL 0fee txn, nodes hold onto it (but don't rebroadcast), later when backlog is smaller they broadcast it [13:29]
mircea_popescu congrats, you've formed a theory about a selection of the facts on record. [13:29]
mircea_popescu wanna try for the whole thing ? [13:30]
PeterL and "the code is the spec", so the spec says first txn see overrides any later (regardless of fees) [13:30]
PeterL which facts does it miss? [13:30]
mircea_popescu it also says txn get thrown out of pools after x days. [13:30]
PeterL how do you know? [13:30]
mircea_popescu PeterL they're in the qntra piece. [13:30]
mircea_popescu how do YOU know what the code says ? [13:30]
PeterL did you go look into the mempool of every node? [13:30]
mircea_popescu i looked into whatever i looked sufficient to satisfy myself. [13:31]
PeterL it would only take one node holding onto the txn for it to be rebroadcast [13:31]
mircea_popescu and instamined. [13:32]
kakobrekla < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think. [13:32]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:24:11; mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact. [13:32]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla it does not tell everyone what "i think", it tells everyone what i saw. [13:32]
PeterL and maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later, at which point it rebroadcast the txn? [13:32]
mircea_popescu but, sure, "experience of that fraction of bitbet that does payouts", is right. [13:33]
mircea_popescu PeterL possibly, sure. [13:33]
mircea_popescu also trivially meets the definition of "withholding txn", but w/e. [13:33]
PeterL withholding txn, sitting on txn, not the same thing [13:34]
gribble no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat. [13:34]
dooglus maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later << or maybe one of the winners of the bet saw he had been paid and rebroadcast A1 so he could get paid again; that seems like the most obvious motivation for rebroadcasting A1 [13:34]
mircea_popescu also possible. [13:34]
mircea_popescu HOW did they see it ? [13:35]
mircea_popescu at that time, it was yet invisible. [13:35]
PeterL what was invisible? [13:35]
mircea_popescu ~nobody saw it, somehow, hence questions about bitbet payouts. [13:35]
mircea_popescu A1. [13:35]
dooglus the winners wouldn't have seen A1 vanish after 48h or whatever the mempool lifetime is; for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them [13:35]
PeterL A1 you sent out to the world, everybody listening saw it [13:35]
mircea_popescu except nobody did, somehow. [13:36]
mircea_popescu this is integral. [13:36]
mircea_popescu see, the problem with assumptions is - making them. [13:36]
dooglus everyone you sent it to saw it. Didn't you broadcast it to ~100 nodes? [13:37]
mircea_popescu i thought i had, yes. [13:37]
PeterL mircea_popescu you seem to be making some big assumptions and plugging your ears whenever anybody questions them [13:37]
dooglus they won't tell you they saw it - it was 0 fee, so won't be relayed to anyone [13:37]
mircea_popescu depends what code they run, but this could well be. [13:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40962 @ 0.00053446 = 21.8926 BTC [-] [13:38]
mircea_popescu so far, we're with the assumption that "bettor with incentive was running one or more of the nodes mp connected to". [13:38]
mircea_popescu this - should be given a %. [13:38]
mircea_popescu as it isn't, per your theory, the case that "Whole world saw". just the set in question. [13:39]
gribble remove bettor from the statement, it's falsely constricting [13:39]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - [13:39]
dooglus "bettor" could be replaced by "anyone who wants to fuck MP over" I guess if you want to increase the probability somewhat [13:40]
mircea_popescu well... if it's not a bettor then "for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them" doesn't stick anymore. [13:40]
PeterL so there are what, 23 outputs or so? and it would take just one of them seeing the txn to hold onto it [13:42]
mircea_popescu all the outputs go to bet winners. [13:42]
mircea_popescu let's move on to the next step. THEN, MP broadcast A2, which HAD a fee. to a non-overlapping set of nodes. the disjunction of the two sets had a perfectly valid txn they... also didn't broadcast, because magic reasons. [13:43]
mircea_popescu and then we do this a coupla more times, and so on. [13:43]
PeterL well, there is probably a large overlap between bettors and people running nodes, since these are people who have an interest in the bitcoin network working so they can get paid [13:43]
mircea_popescu by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure. [13:44]
mircea_popescu anyway, ima bbl. [13:44]
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dooglus if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right? [13:46]
PeterL by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure. << it only takes one, and I bet and have a node, therefore it might have been me too [13:47]
* joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [13:47]
PeterL so maybe it was you! [13:47]
PeterL maybe just never send 0fee txn, because customer payouts should be a priority? [13:48]
dooglus I suspect that's the client's fault - used to be that high-priority inputs meant you didn't need a fee [13:48]
asciilifeform nubbins`: my current hypothesis is that he did not intend a reactor test, but simply allowed the transmitter to calculate a default fee, which turned out to be 0, and sent. [13:49]
PeterL but how is mircea_popescu going to address the concerns if he ignores the people who raise them? [13:49]
PeterL asciilifeform but sending the second txn was pure idiocy, since he had no way of knowing the first would not also be mined [13:50]
asciilifeform nubbins`: this is not true, see the onetimepad thread, mp admitted that he made an arithmetical mistake once ! [13:50]
adlai nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet [13:50]
asciilifeform PeterL: what, i am curious, would you have done ? [13:50]
asciilifeform so he sends A1, and notices that it is in limbo. [13:51]
asciilifeform now what. [13:51]
PeterL well, either wait for the first transactio [13:51]
asciilifeform or what? [13:51]
asciilifeform didn't he ? [13:51]
PeterL or double spend the outputs (and get a miner to include) before sending txn B [13:51]
asciilifeform and then do what? eat pistol ? [13:52]
asciilifeform what was bbet (or mircea_popescu at the console, or imagine youself there instead) do instead ? [13:52]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i thought your objection was precisely to a4 [13:52]
PeterL but in any case not send txn B until txn A has been resolved [13:52]
asciilifeform where he had to use mysterymeat input of his own [13:52]
asciilifeform anyway i have no idea if mircea_popescu send the 'doubles' because he was pissed and mashing keys, or if he forgot that most of the node network is run by imbeciles who go by chronology to 'resolve doublespend', or what. ask him, not me. [13:54]
* adlai tries rebroadcasting [13:54]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:50:24; adlai: nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet [13:54]
davout were A2, A3, A4 ever published? [13:54]
asciilifeform nubbins`: what does the listing agreement say re: what to do, as a shareholder, if you think mp has been afflicted by martian brain parasites and broke the agreement ? [13:55]
adlai nubbins`: it does change the picture from "fraud! abdication! blood of tyrants!" to "mp made a mistake when acting as coin-handler for a corporation" [13:55]
assbot The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [13:56]
PeterL nubbins` payout from inputs is good for transparency, but it would be perfectly legitimate for bitbet to send all funds to one address and then make all payouts from the same address [13:56]
kakobrekla davout afaik no. [13:57]
* adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn't this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells a different story than the addresses listed on the site [13:57]
BingoBoingo << ORPHAN! [13:57]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 13:36:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block. [13:57]
kakobrekla BingoBoingo show me. [13:57]
BingoBoingo kakobrekla: Might take a while... [13:58]
kakobrekla Thats what they said for Jesus. [13:59]
davout kakobrekla: pls to do so, i'm looking through my nodes logs to see if and when i heard about them [14:00]
PeterL and by the way, how did we jump to the conclusion that the collusion is from "Chinese miners"? (And why is the disclaimer on bitbet so tiny and discreet?) [14:00]
kakobrekla davout i dont have that information. [14:01]
PeterL kakobrekla is there an estimated timeframe for when bet payouts will resume? [14:02]
asciilifeform PeterL: i have nfi how mircea_popescu concluded that miners were involved. the only clue i have is that it has recently come out that the top cn miners have formed a derp committee of some kind, apparently for purposes of negotiated separate peace with the enemy [14:02]
davout ;;later tell mircea_popescu [14:02]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:02]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:53:56; davout: were A2, A3, A4 ever published? [14:02]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i ~really~, very much, hate the miners. but i do not have the smoking gun that tells us that they were at fault. [14:03]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu's observations best fit the 'there is no longer a reliable network' model. [14:03]
asciilifeform rather than 'miner cartel' model. [14:04]
kakobrekla asciilifeform there never was. [14:04]
thestringpuller nubbins`: "Why is Bush so convinced Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?" Negrodamus: "Because he has the receipt." [14:04]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: mircea_popescu sent the first tx. noticed that it has apparently vanished from the fact of the earth. what is the thing to do in that case ? [14:04]
asciilifeform *face of [14:05]
thestringpuller ^-patience? [14:05]
davout asciilifeform: do a double spend, manage to get a conflicting tx mined [14:05]
asciilifeform davout: which is what he did ? [14:05]
davout asciilifeform: no, the tx he sent was not conflicting [14:05]
jurov asciilifeform: why was he ever sending zerofee tx? [14:05]
asciilifeform davout: 'A second transaction was broadcast, spending the same inputs as A1, including a fee of 0.0001' [14:06]
PeterL nubbins`> go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation << if you look at the timestamps, it was just a couple hours before we started complaining, which was pretty much as soon as I got around to reading the article in question [14:06]
davout asciilifeform: it's the "manage to get mined" that's the important bit here [14:06]
asciilifeform seems to me like he did a reasonable thing, which is to transmit a doublspend with moar fee [14:06]
asciilifeform but forgot that the network is now run by aggressive imbeciles [14:06]
asciilifeform who will drop the tx on the floor [14:06]
kakobrekla asciilifeform certainly not sign more parallel transactions to same effect and broadcast them like nothing happened [14:06]
asciilifeform but what instead ? [14:07]
davout asciilifeform: try harder? [14:08]
kakobrekla asciilifeform see the agreed upon solution for future bets payouts [14:08]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: from the statement ? [14:08]
kakobrekla asciilifeform yes. [14:08]
davout bbl [14:08]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: it sounds reasonable. except that i suspect that most of the users will cry, 'how do i transmit a tx?111 waaah' [14:08]
kakobrekla i dont think this will be a problem. notice the 'double-check' guy from comments. [14:10]
kakobrekla nubbins` re 0 fee ; see first few lines [14:11]
assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( ) [14:11]
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asciilifeform [02:07:54] [mircea_popescu] ALL these ~happened~ to somehow drop out of mempools ? << from the document << later we learn that prb DROPS what it deems 'doublespend' SOLELY based on chronology. [14:12]
asciilifeform which handily explains why A2-A4 vanished. [14:13]
PeterL does trb do replace by fee? [14:14]
asciilifeform PeterL: what's that ? [14:14]
kakobrekla 'replace by fee' is a new thing that has not been ported [14:14]
PeterL if trb sees A1 and A2, which does it keep? [14:14]
PeterL (A1 is 0fee, A2 has fee, same inputs) [14:15]
asciilifeform hm [14:16]
asciilifeform [14:16]
assbot Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( ) [14:16]
asciilifeform ^ apparently whichever it sees 1st. [14:16]
asciilifeform which is a bug. [14:16]
BingoBoingo 'replace by fee' USED to be how double spends were typically resolved by miner implementations [14:16]
asciilifeform nubbins`: incidentally i have nfi what mpb does, i have never seen it and don't expect to [14:16]
PeterL maybe mircea_popescu can tell us how his own implementation works? [14:17]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i fully expected that mircea_popescu would cover the 17 from the coin stuck in his toenails [14:17]
asciilifeform but i have nfi, i'm not his mother, cannot answer why he does things! l0l! [14:18]
PeterL asciilifeform I was suprised when he decided to stick it onto bitbet's books [14:18]
asciilifeform nubbins`: it is possible that mircea_popescu is holding a drill. [14:20]
asciilifeform in his place, i would do it regularly [14:20]
PeterL If I send a txn to the addresses listed on a bitbet page, will that expense be put on the bitbet books too? [14:20]
PeterL asciilifeform a scammer drill? to see if we call out an negrate scammers in a timely fasion? [14:21]
PeterL and if we blindly follow him then he knows we are all derps? [14:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50243 @ 0.00053577 = 26.9187 BTC [+] {2} [14:22]
asciilifeform << see also. [14:22]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2016 22:35:15; asciilifeform: except i admit that i only expected 'this' to happen after cia murdered mircea_popescu and took his coin... [14:22]
PeterL it's mostly mircea_popescu and asciilifeform bickering back and forth? [14:22]
PeterL are Canadians allowed to talk about each other so impolitely? [14:24]
PeterL each of us have our warts [14:25]
trinque I don't get these shots at mod6; he wrote up a fine guide to building a gentoo... [14:26]
asciilifeform nubbins`: when you were a boy, didja ever lead a band of other boys to raise hell ? [14:27]
asciilifeform do you recall how it's generally done ? [14:28]
thestringpuller a clockwork orange this is not [14:28]
asciilifeform or, similar example, do you know how famous sov. circus trainer kuklachev trained housecats to perform ? [14:28]
PeterL figure out which way they are running, jump in front and say "this way, boys!"? [14:28]
asciilifeform PeterL: not quite. [14:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21298 @ 0.00053763 = 11.4504 BTC [+] {2} [14:29]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i dun think he needs the parroting for anything [14:29]
asciilifeform it is like the vroom of a racing engine [14:29]
asciilifeform yes, it goes with the engine. [14:29]
asciilifeform but it does not move the car. [14:29]
asciilifeform nubbins`: fwiw pete_dushenski and i are not huge fans of one another. [14:30]
thestringpuller all this before civil war II [14:31]
asciilifeform nubbins`: why piece of shit? i think he's a snore, and he - likely thinks i am a snore. but why the mega-rage, l0l [14:31]
asciilifeform afaik pete_dushenski is this canadian fella who likes to race cars, and also occasionally reads the logz and writes summaries, in something like stalin's radio caster (levitan) voice. [14:32]
asciilifeform i don't much care for them, myself. [14:33]
asciilifeform i got enough of that as a kid. [14:33]
asciilifeform nubbins`: do you actually think he was trying to personally fleece you ? [14:34]
asciilifeform (or anybody ?) [14:34]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu works as a pope. [14:34]
asciilifeform does nubbins` understand why this is a painful job ? [14:34]
asciilifeform aha. [14:34]
asciilifeform they ~are~. [14:34]
asciilifeform nubbins`: recall the quantum computer thread ? [14:35]
BingoBoingo [14:36]
assbot Moscow Cats Theatre - Repertoir ... ( ) [14:36]
asciilifeform [14:37]
assbot Logged on 10-02-2016 17:08:22; mircea_popescu: alowing the possibility that this scam is actually worth taking seriously costs the people who follow what i say whatever it may cost them. [14:37]
asciilifeform nubbins` ^ [14:37]
asciilifeform being pope is not easy. [14:38]
asciilifeform he can't simply say 'oops!' [14:38]
asciilifeform l0l me? [14:39]
asciilifeform well that is my current understanding. [14:39]
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asciilifeform what does kakobrekla have to say ? [14:40]
asciilifeform i dun think kakobrekla is congentalyl capable of worry [14:41]
asciilifeform he had that muscle removed in the war. [14:41]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and admit he was conducting a drill. [14:42]
asciilifeform << as per. [14:42]
assbot The Hour Of Reckoning on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [14:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7032 @ 0.00053633 = 3.7715 BTC [-] {2} [14:43]
asciilifeform nubbins`: idk, if this carries on, i might have to take up his offer and visit in person (and perhaps disappear into whatever gulag they put the real mircea_popescu in !1111) [14:43]
asciilifeform nubbins`: you did not complain when mine was late ? [14:44]
asciilifeform read it, it's up [14:45]
thestringpuller it has a $200 expense for phuctor [14:46]
thestringpuller that will be recurrin [14:46]
asciilifeform anyway nubbins` i srsly have nfi why the 17 was put in as bitbet expense, ask mircea_popescu, i'm not his mother. [14:46]
asciilifeform and yes if i were bbet shareholder i'd be going ???. [14:47]
asciilifeform but i;m not. [14:47]
asciilifeform if i had to guess (why?) - say - drill. [14:47]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: Are you familiar with the Dark Knight Returns? [14:48]
asciilifeform nope. [14:48]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i think you did a perfectly fine job of putting the argument in the logz. [14:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35400 @ 0.00053446 = 18.9199 BTC [-] {2} [14:50]
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* shinohai waves at #b-a from his hot air balloon powered by todays logs. [14:57]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33792 @ 0.00053402 = 18.0456 BTC [-] {3} [15:00]
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PeterL anybody want to guess as to whether one of the winning bets on the JebBush bet was owned by mircea_popescu? who got the extra 7btc payment? [15:05]
PeterL yes, large late bets are common, but it could be mp doing it [15:08]
PeterL just saying [15:08]
assbot BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014 :: 1.18 B (8%) on Yes, 14.07 B (92%) on No | closed 1 year 5 months ago ... ( ) [15:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22496 @ 0.00053357 = 12.0032 BTC [-] [15:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25804 @ 0.00053357 = 13.7682 BTC [-] [15:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00053357 = 10.9649 BTC [-] [15:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00053342 = 30.9917 BTC [-] {3} [15:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00053332 = 2.4533 BTC [-] [15:55]
jurov !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity [16:00]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [16:00]
jurov !v assbot:jurov.rate.nubbins`.2:e0d6b842084c5b88117ec108fc92582260506c5b83c14a923a960458fb9655fb [16:01]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for nubbins` with note: voice of sanity [16:01]
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deedbot- [Qntra] Google Tries Juicing Ad Sales WIth Appeal To Vanity - [16:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00053357 = 2.5078 BTC [+] [16:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30807 @ 0.00053357 = 16.4377 BTC [+] [16:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00053357 = 11.5251 BTC [+] [16:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3023 @ 0.00053332 = 1.6122 BTC [-] [16:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50129 @ 0.00053332 = 26.7348 BTC [-] [16:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44783 @ 0.00053329 = 23.8823 BTC [-] {4} [16:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00053357 = 21.6629 BTC [+] [17:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00053357 = 1.7074 BTC [+] [17:13]
asciilifeform so i reread the log, and, [17:18]
asciilifeform << is important point. [17:18]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:12:01; mircea_popescu: PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it. [17:18]
asciilifeform if mircea_popescu pulled the reactor control rods out because he had a drink too many, the shareholders, per the spec, have precisely two options - to forgive him, or to sell [17:19]
asciilifeform as far as i can tell. [17:19]
asciilifeform and this is not a mega-surprise, it is quite how the 'separation between the man and the uniform' thing works. [17:21]
asciilifeform there is nothing in the bbet listing concerning 'if officer blows up the reactor, he will pay for it out of his lunch money' [17:22]
asciilifeform because we are not in the soviet air force. [17:22]
asciilifeform aha [17:23]
asciilifeform there is. [17:23]
asciilifeform actually i have no idea where B came from [17:24]
asciilifeform perhaps it was freshly-incoming bbet meat. [17:24]
asciilifeform or change. or whatnot. [17:24]
asciilifeform well in that case it wouldn't be 'his own money', but legit operating meat, no? [17:24]
asciilifeform why ponzi ? [17:24]
asciilifeform i dun get it [17:24]
jurov i'm rather curious if the point 3.2d was fullfilled, i.e. kakobrekla agreed with whole crapolade [17:25]
jurov ? [17:25]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.11995078 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - [17:25]
asciilifeform nubbins`: recall, mircea_popescu said something to the effect of that he was putting out a fire. [17:26]
asciilifeform with whatever was in reach. [17:26]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla: < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think. [17:26]
jurov well, we have breach of conract then [17:27]
asciilifeform nubbins`: << suggests that it was not 'behind back' but the normal operation of bbet [17:27]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:13:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts. [17:27]
kakobrekla asciilifeform things of far lesser importance were normally discussed by 'the board'. [17:28]
jurov but i wouldn't call it ponzi, at least till bitbet has equity [17:28]
asciilifeform i admit that i don't see the ponzi aspect here. [17:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36014 @ 0.00053448 = 19.2488 BTC [+] {4} [17:31]
asciilifeform i am also sympathetic to the argument that the currency chair broke when he sat down on it and wtf. [17:31]
asciilifeform so chair collapsed and he grabbed whatever pipe was within reach. [17:31]
jurov stfu you redditor!!11 [17:32]
asciilifeform anyway i have nfi, will let mircea_popescu explain whether his chair collapsed, which pipe, if any, he grabbed, what kind of reactor coolant came out, etc. [17:32]
asciilifeform rather than trying to telepath. [17:32]
asciilifeform which i am not any good at. [17:32]
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asciilifeform incidentally, i also have nfi how the 'zero asset' thing works. i.e., what was the plan if somehow bbet had lost x btc through some other misfortune. [17:36]
asciilifeform somehow i can't picture that 'zero asset' means 'dies if the wind farts on it' [17:36]
asciilifeform does it ? [17:37]
assbot BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( ) [17:40]
asciilifeform nubbins`: if he had wanted to bail it out, he could have trivially - and anonymously - throw in however many coin. [17:40]
asciilifeform and it would have been 'donation to shareholders' [17:40]
asciilifeform and no one would even have noticed that any was lost. [17:40]
asciilifeform but he did not do this because he is a ~principled~ fella. [17:40]
asciilifeform think. [17:40]
asciilifeform nubbins`: you eminently also have been. [17:41]
asciilifeform why would an unprincipled mp ~not~ anonymously fill in the hole ? [17:42]
asciilifeform you think mircea_popescu actually ~needs~ the 17 for something ? [17:42]
asciilifeform i think he uses more than 17 btc of toilet paper whenever he shits. [17:42]
asciilifeform (with gold leaf.) [17:42]
asciilifeform the way i'm reading it, he was trying to make a point, that the currency is broken (and it is), and that he refuses to be held to answer for ~it being broken~ [17:43]
asciilifeform not to this degree ? [17:44]
asciilifeform i hold myself responsible for some of mircea_popescu's rage. and think that it is justified. because the thing ~is~ br0k3n. [17:44]
asciilifeform nubbins`: if i had to guess, a1 was sent with default knobs. [17:46]
asciilifeform mpb prolly. [17:47]
asciilifeform which i know ~0 about. [17:47]
asciilifeform for all i know (and i have said this) it runs on kremvax. [17:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: default settings worked on every day prior to day x. [17:48]
asciilifeform again i have nfi, but this is the most parsimonious hypothesis [17:48]
asciilifeform based on what mircea_popescu said in his article. [17:48]
asciilifeform nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ? [17:49]
asciilifeform every time ? [17:49]
asciilifeform and let's say the chair breaks one time, and nubbins` finds out that it was because of something a bunch of subhuman scum did. [17:50]
asciilifeform what will he say ? [17:50]
kakobrekla its not only that chair broke. he deliberately sat on it again (more precisely sat bitbet on it) after he noticed it was broken. [17:50]
BingoBoingo nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ? << This is inspiring a yard project. I have a tall yet narrow tree to take down. Will make a tree stake before gone forever! [17:52]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: Nah, just craft project. Not film project [17:53]
danielpbarron maybe the 17 btc should be donated to bbet by s.nsa? If indeed the whole point was to make a point about the brokenness of bitcoin. [17:54]
* BingoBoingo may have to make the jump to power tools. Crosscut saw has given arm a beating. [17:54]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: how do the shareholders of s.nsa feel about such a thing ? [17:54]
asciilifeform any happier than the bbet ones ? [17:54]
asciilifeform jurov ? [17:54]
jurov asciilifeform: i do check the mempol stats before sending small tx [17:55]
asciilifeform nubbins`: well danielpbarron was asking about s.nsa shareholders [17:55]
jurov and ALWAYS add at least 0.00001, [17:55]
danielpbarron heh i'm a shareholder of both, although not a very big one. full disclosure : i have more invested in bbet than nsa [17:55]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: i must confess that if mircea_popescu was conducting an experiment to demonstrate the brokkenness of bitcoin, under the banner of s.nsa, he would have put it as expense in s.nsa statement. [17:58]
asciilifeform which we signed. and notice, there is not such a thing there. [17:58]
asciilifeform so even though mircea_popescu is not here, i can say with some certainty that he was not conducting an s.nsa experiment that day. [17:59]
jurov i have mostly (and painfully) divested from s.nsa, but think two wrongs does not make right [17:59]
jurov (i.e. taking from s.nsa money for something it was not involved with at all) [17:59]
asciilifeform danielpbarron suggested it, so i was curious re: his logic. [18:00]
danielpbarron just seems like more of an nsa themed thing, but I'm no expert in these matters and I'm not married to the idea [18:01]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: this would, then, have the unpleasant flavour of the car wash folks, who wash you at a red light and then ask for pay. [18:02]
asciilifeform which i do not think was meant here. [18:02]
danielpbarron i'm not saying you haven't made some sound points nubbins` , but I trust Mircea more than I trust you, and that's that. [18:03]
punkman was this even the first time bbet double paid? [18:03]
punkman wow mega backlogs [18:04]
trinque I butter mine on both, use as a transportation device [18:04]
asciilifeform at any rate, mircea_popescu is prolly off sitting in the war room recrunching the numberz, and will come back and either show us that we're idiots, or apologize and 'gracious donation to shareholderz.' [18:04]
asciilifeform but imho it is not a very interesting thread without him. [18:05]
punkman bitcoin runs on drama! [18:05]
asciilifeform thus far this is reminiscent of the otp thread. [18:05]
jurov asciilifeform: lol 'war room', do you remember he did accounting mistakes wrt bitbet divs almost every month? [18:05]
trinque nubbins`: bawww [18:05]
jurov and we all know discussing what mp should and should not do is in vain, but he's not alone in there. i'm looking forward to see how kakobrekla follows with this [18:06]
asciilifeform jurov: i have nfi, i admit that i do not typically follow the subject [18:06]
danielpbarron as to whether the listing agreement was violated, I hope for the sake of myself and other shareholders that bbet isn't liquidated at the specified price of 0.00001 btc per share [18:06]
asciilifeform recall, i am here for slightly different reason than other folks, i'm not really an 'assets' fella [18:06]
trinque nubbins`: you have an embarassing habit of throwing jabs at everyone in a room when you have a problem with one [18:06]
asciilifeform i have no assets and no net work, i just like maths. [18:06]
asciilifeform *net worth [18:06]
danielpbarron asciilifeform, you ~are~ an asset <3 [18:07]
asciilifeform l0l [18:07]
trinque awwww [18:07]
asciilifeform i think i am what mircea_popescu terms a 'shoemaker.' [18:07]
asciilifeform which is fine with me. [18:07]
asciilifeform (this is a term in ru also.) [18:07]
danielpbarron i'm a shoe shipper hehe [18:08]
jurov better than shoe polisher at any rate [18:09]
danielpbarron well i don't masquerade as a finance expert while making my shoes.. [18:09]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 03:01:31; mircea_popescu: !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam. [18:09]
* danielpbarron shrugs [18:09]
danielpbarron i'm baking an article about this for my blog, fwiw [18:11]
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asciilifeform i will read. [18:12]
danielpbarron on a related note, neither is worth much [18:12]
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davout oh god, such mega-drama [18:32]
asciilifeform nah, this is mere kilo-drama. [18:36]
asciilifeform << this got lost in the noise and i would like to come back to it. [18:37]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:34:51; dooglus: see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ; [18:37]
dooglus see also: -- if it's not illegal to post github links in here ;) [18:38]
assbot Limit getheaders to a hard 2000. by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #951 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( ) [18:38]
asciilifeform i have to agree with mircea_popescu on this one , [18:38]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:47:24; mircea_popescu: it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense. [18:38]
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asciilifeform dooglus: when trb disagrees with prb, prb is ipso facto wrong. [18:38]
asciilifeform because wtf goats do not get to decide human questions. [18:38]
dooglus sure [18:39]
asciilifeform so this answers it. [18:39]
asciilifeform if your client barfs when working with trb, patch your client. [18:39]
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dooglus I saw MP's "a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour" and was sceptical [18:40]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [18:41]
dooglus then remembered prb's 0.12 release writes the current block height into the locktime of transactions it creates [18:41]
dooglus see [18:41]
assbot dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( ) [18:41]
dooglus weird distribution of current block heights there [18:41]
asciilifeform dooglus: mircea_popescu does not use prb. [18:41]
dooglus doesn't matter [18:41]
asciilifeform nubbins`: yeah but he baked the tx [18:42]
asciilifeform so prb tx-baking behaviour would not influence matters [18:42]
dooglus most people don't use prb - most transactions don't have a non-zero locktime - but lots do [18:42]
dooglus many other transactions in that block *do* have block heights baked into them [18:43]
asciilifeform ah this is re: whether blocks are being withheld as per mircea_popescu's hypothesis. [18:43]
pete_dushenski in other matters of discrepancy vis-a-vis bitbet, [18:43]
assbot BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase before July 2016 :: 3 B (58%) on Yes, 2.18 B (42%) on No | closing in 2 months 3 weeks | weight: 40`287 (100`000 to 2`000) ... ( ) [18:44]
assbot Bitcoin Block #401585 ... ( ) [18:44]
assbot ... ( ) [18:44]
dooglus right. the majority of txs which do have a height baked in were created 10 blocks before that block [18:44]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: what are we looking at here ? [18:44]
pete_dushenski re links : number of txen, fees, hash, merkle root match - size of block and number of coins transacted do not match [18:45]
danielpbarron nubbins`, [18:45]
assbot Lacessiveram editor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [18:45]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: dunno if this is a common occurrence, just noticed it because it was raised in bb comment. [18:45]
pete_dushenski i haven't the patience to compare every listed tx. perhaps someone else has script or program for this [18:46]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: for your (two)dogged persistence, cheers. [18:47]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i do not. but this'd be a good beginner project [18:50]
asciilifeform (write block disasmer that can take output of 'spitblock') [18:50]
asciilifeform dumpblock, rather [18:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00053315 = 31.7491 BTC [-] {4} [18:51]
asciilifeform and this is really appropriately a shiva project. [18:52]
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dooglus pete_dushenski: that block is 999962 bytes long, which is 976.5254 * 1024 - so that's the discrepancy [18:52]
asciilifeform and now that i think about it, phf had a block disasmer in commonlisp. [18:52]
thestringpuller ;;calc 976.5254 * 1024 [18:53]
gribble 999962.0096 [18:53]
asciilifeform but i have misplaced the link, and cannot find it in the logz [18:53]
dooglus echo $((($(bitcoind getblock $(bitcoind getblockhash 401585) false | wc -c) - 1) / 2)) [18:53]
pete_dushenski so suddenly forgot that there are 1024 bytes in a kb, like the girl who thinks that her 3 months old son is '12 weeks old' ? [18:54]
pete_dushenski strange. [18:55]
dooglus they also think kB is spelled with a capital K. whenever disagrees with another block explorer, it's wrong [18:56]
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asciilifeform !up Chicago [18:57]
* assbot gives voice to Chicago [18:57]
dooglus then there's this: telling me there are 1000 bytes in a kilobyte and 1024 bytes in a kibibyte... [18:58]
assbot Kibibyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [18:58]
shinohai dafuq? [18:58]
asciilifeform i side with tradition and honest ram vendors vs. consistency and scummy hdd makers. [19:00]
thestringpuller ram vendors are honest? [19:00]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: in the sense that they 1024. [19:01]
asciilifeform yes. [19:01]
asciilifeform because those who stopped, stopped so that they could scam consumers. [19:01]
thestringpuller 2^10 [19:01]
thestringpuller ;;calc 2 ** 10 [19:01]
gribble 1024 [19:01]
danielpbarron nubbins`> BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go << link the signed encrypted thing as a text file (on dpaste or your own site) in a later tell to Bingo [19:02]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: lol is 'piece of shit' a term of endearment on your end of the globe ? i have a hard time keeping track of all the different culture nuances in this vast and expansive country of ours [19:03]
danielpbarron make sure it's encrypted and not just signed.. otherwise the web crawlers get to read it first [19:03]
pete_dushenski cultural* [19:03]
pete_dushenski << v. interesting, dooglus [19:04]
assbot dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( ) [19:04]
dooglus pete_dushenski: yeah, but what does it mean? [19:04]
pete_dushenski i'm not qualified to say what it means ! [19:04]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: hey there's no rule proclaiming that everybody has to be friendz. [19:05]
asciilifeform nubbins` and pete_dushenski are entirely welcome to sit on opposite ends of the bar and give mean stares or whatnot. [19:05]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece? << sign/encrypt a document and pass it to me somehow [19:08]
dooglus pete_dushenski: [19:08]
assbot dpaste: 382FKCJ: blocks either side of 400739 show a similar pattern too ... ( ) [19:08]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: to be sure. [19:09]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: i gotcha ;) [19:09]
asciilifeform << this very readily suggests to me a malleus-II [19:09]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:08:22; dooglus: pete_dushenski: [19:09]
asciilifeform that will refuse to relay tx where locktime is set. [19:10]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: will let you know, but it seems rather long [19:10]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: also wasn't encrypted [19:12]
BingoBoingo seems a bit early to do a piece on this. [19:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113593 @ 0.00053404 = 60.6632 BTC [+] {5} [19:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34008 @ 0.00053225 = 18.1008 BTC [-] {3} [19:14]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - [19:17]
davout dooglus: any interpretation for the data you posted? i fail to see anything meaningful to conclude from it [19:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55350 @ 0.00053615 = 29.6759 BTC [+] {3} [19:18]
davout curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution - 70 transactions were made when block 400728 was the current block, and only 16 were made at a later point in time" when the majority of the referenced transactions have a 0 locktime [19:19]
davout am i missing something ? [19:19]
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asciilifeform nubbins`: gonna also apply to snsa ? [19:22]
asciilifeform did i ever even once publish a broadcast exactly on time ? [19:22]
thestringpuller are there any NSA statements published after the 5th? [19:24]
thestringpuller ain't nobody got time 4 that [19:25]
* assbot removes voice from Chicago [19:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48350 @ 0.00053629 = 25.9296 BTC [+] {2} [19:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55800 @ 0.00053104 = 29.632 BTC [-] {5} [19:35]
* Chicago has quit (Quit: Good-bye) [19:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00053067 = 10.2419 BTC [-] {2} [19:39]
mircea_popescu in other news, [19:42]
assbot Stiuso, amenaza para Cristina y desafío para Macri - 07.03.2016 - LA NACION   ... ( ) [19:42]
mircea_popescu "El fiscal Alberto Nisman volvió a ocupar el centro de la escena. La investigación sobre su muerte está tomando una orientación, cuyo desenlace se puede prever: Nisman fue víctima de un asesinato en el que participó el gobierno de Cristina Kirchner, en combinación con agentes iraníes." [19:42]
mircea_popescu looking for the low down on argentina ? read it in qntra today, or in the argentinian mass media a week later. [19:42]
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BingoBoingo lol [19:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ! [19:43]
mircea_popescu hm ? [19:43]
asciilifeform see logz. reactor meltdowns, folks shat pants, etc. [19:44]
mircea_popescu << they should have been. except if the "non overlapping" sets of miners DO in fact overlap, in the sense of being merely meaningless facades of the same one thing, in which case they wouldn't necessarily know that they can be trivially fingerprinted by the symptom of "hey, apparently they know about a txn they shouldn't know about". [19:44]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:45:54; dooglus: if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right? [19:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform is there anything more than random derp of tenuous association with b-a has a total meltdown when he realises that b-a is not fiat, the republic not a democracy and i don't give a shit about "people themselves" ? [19:45]
mircea_popescu << you think so. but in reality, you're not actually part of the relay network. [19:45]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:47:14; PeterL: so maybe it was you! [19:45]
mircea_popescu you just don't know enough about this sort of thing to find this out. [19:46]
asciilifeform see log. jurov, kakobrekla, and i all wondered wtf mircea_popescu thought he was doing when he programmed a1 [19:46]
asciilifeform and i think nubbins` has gone to drink [19:46]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: [19:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform see above neh ? [19:47]
asciilifeform i have nfi, and might be a shoemaker. [19:47]
asciilifeform how is nubbins` 'tenuous' ? i thought he was a serious stockholder, long before i even came here. [19:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y to nodes Nm where m [19:49]
mircea_popescu =2i+1. suppose you verify that nodes Nm do not advertise Y. is this proof sufficient to you that nodes N1... Nn is a charade, and they are all node N ? [19:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be. [19:50]
mircea_popescu this'd be my definition of tenuous. [19:50]
asciilifeform he did ask [19:50]
asciilifeform and deedbotted it iirc. [19:50]
asciilifeform << sometime there [19:51]
assbot Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:16; nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your [19:51]
asciilifeform or was this a different nubbins` [19:51]
davout <<< did you actually do this when broadcasting A1...4 ? [19:53]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose [19:53]
mircea_popescu myeah. [19:53]
asciilifeform << yes. [19:53]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose [19:53]
mircea_popescu minus the magic numbers, but this. [19:53]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is standard syblic detector. [19:53]
mircea_popescu and so no, one who things "well there's nodes, so it's a p2p network" is utterly flattering himself. no such thing in bitcoin. there's a supernode, and a bunch of whatevers. [19:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform right. [19:54]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you actually did this experiment, and this was the result, then you just nailed a set of sybils, yes [19:54]
asciilifeform but we knew that it was infested, no ? [19:54]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:52:54; mircea_popescu: myeah. [19:54]
asciilifeform all of my experiments pointed at precisely this conclusion. [19:54]
mircea_popescu the chief problem with trying to communicate things is that there's always going to be a set of idiots / lazy thinkers who want a specific outcome out of the conversation, and then proceed to parasitize it with their half-assed sententious bullshit. [19:54]
mircea_popescu anyway. to my eyes this is specifically and precisely said in the qntra piece, but w/e, more passes never hurt anyone, i guess. except if the passes are beatings or something. [19:55]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well you also had a hypothesis concerning miners [19:55]
asciilifeform which is what got folks rioting [19:55]
mircea_popescu that's also in there. different part. [19:55]
mircea_popescu let's just say that i lifted the rock and i saw every type of heresy in there. [19:55]
mircea_popescu which yes, on the sheer strength of the abundance and precision, "dang, this better be a nightmare" [19:55]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i've been lifting the rocks for a while. but i do it with sapper's spade , but as i understand you did it with bbet's foot ? [19:57]
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asciilifeform nubbins`: what he was asking is, why would the nodes that he did NOT transmit a1 to, reject a2. [19:59]
asciilifeform if they aren't relaying a1. [19:59]
asciilifeform this is a logical question. [19:59]
asciilifeform nubbins`: they are, however, my strong point. and mircea_popescu asked an entirely logical q. [20:00]
davout asciilifeform: i don't see how one could conclusively assert that A1 has not been relayed by the node one originally broadcast it to [20:00]
mircea_popescu anyway, if anyone had anythong intelligent to say that got buried in the spew, feel free to restate. i'm not wading through that pile of idiocy. [20:00]
asciilifeform davout: if it ~was~ relayed, it would be mined. [20:00]
mircea_popescu what has the log done to be reduced so! [20:01]
mircea_popescu davout because one can connect to it again and see what it says. [20:01]
davout asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone [20:01]
asciilifeform davout: so a1 was rejected by miners because ????. and a few hundred nodes, a day later, showed no symptoms of knowing about it. [20:02]
davout mircea_popescu: true [20:02]
asciilifeform then ages later, it gets unearthed. by whom, and how? [20:02]
davout asciilifeform: i have nfi, but absence of proof isn't proof of absence [20:03]
mircea_popescu a statement of fact is a statement of fact. it only becomes a proof if used in a reasoning. a fact and a proof are very different items : one's a realia, the other ideal. [20:03]
asciilifeform nubbins`: the most plausible scenario i can think of is that mircea_popescu's network has been boxed in by sybils. [20:03]
asciilifeform aha, he's under a dome. [20:04]
asciilifeform or however you say it in engl. [20:04]
davout ftr i checked my own logs, and what they say is that my node heard about A1 around march 1st [20:04]
mircea_popescu davout that was 2nd pass. [20:04]
davout obviously [20:04]
mircea_popescu its sudden appearance was discussed in these very logs - even for that brief interval before it made it into a block. [20:04]
davout now, i'm quite curious to actually see A2...4 with my own eyes, and check those too [20:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is obviously always possible. except it'd be bitbet, raqther than mp. i've been otherwise unmolested throughout. [20:05]
mircea_popescu how are you going to see them ? they never made it. [20:05]
dooglus davout: curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution << when mining block N, I have my pick of all the transactions broadcast while block N-1 was the newest block. some of those will have decent fees. transactions broadcast while block N-10 was the newest block that haven't already been mined are probably not very attractive to mine now. so why is block N including so many transactions created 10 blocks ago and so few created 1 block ag [20:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as discussed earlier, it is uniquely easy to do this to bbet. [20:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no argument. in which it becomes entirely a bitbet's swamp, which bitbet has to drain. [20:06]
davout mircea_popescu: i like to check stuff, maybe there's stuff to learn if i find out they somehow were relayed to my nodes at some point [20:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is so far imho the best argument for why it had to be bbet's foot on the mine. [20:06]
mircea_popescu i'm willing, on general goodwill, to help. i am certainly not willing to underwrite an open ended personal support for some venture i happen to manage. [20:06]
asciilifeform i'm not a bbet shareholder or for that matter anything at all, but am willing to help [20:06]
mircea_popescu it is unclear what the help'd be at the present time, however. i see exactly no signs of any of the observed behaviours discussed in teh qntra piece anymore. [20:07]
asciilifeform and so far my verdict is that bbet was sybilled into going under a dome. [20:07]
asciilifeform but it is entirely unclear to me that miners had anything to do with the observables here. [20:07]
mircea_popescu but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly. [20:07]
asciilifeform (miners ~are~ misbehaving, as, e.g., i witnessed with my lee sedol bet. but this is separate.) [20:07]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how does a transaction that shouldn't even be relayed GET relayed, and then mined, in short order ? [20:08]
mircea_popescu davout> asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone << especially a 0fee one. [20:08]
asciilifeform trivially: the sybilnet has a pet miner. [20:08]
mircea_popescu but a pet miner is not good enough. [20:08]
asciilifeform one of those block-a-day things. [20:08]
asciilifeform perhaps the 'telco 241' or what was it. [20:08]
mircea_popescu it is an intricate discussion, and one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail, but on the basis of what i have seen, it is my considered opinion that at the time in discussion, the miner cartel was running a ~half hour block delay thing. [20:09]
mircea_popescu and they put it in, at the ~same second they "broadcast" it to the hanger-on nodes. [20:09]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i assumed that you had nonpublic intel that led you to say this. [20:09]
mircea_popescu i also said as much at that exact time, in this very chan. [20:09]
davout dooglus: so in other words: block witholding [20:09]
asciilifeform but i have to say, it is not supported by the incident described in the article, and so this is giving folks indigestion, fwiw. [20:10]
mircea_popescu and there are VERY GOOD game theoretic reasons for a miner cartel to do this. [20:10]
asciilifeform because it looked like '1,2,3, ....magic happens, ... --> ergo x.' [20:10]
mircea_popescu specifically because it allows them the only possible moat against competition [20:10]
asciilifeform and very clearly there are mighty good gametheoretical reasons for the cartel. [20:10]
asciilifeform it is half of why i believed that a cartel exists. [20:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform when you say "it is not supported", what do you mean ? [20:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16477 @ 0.00053067 = 8.7438 BTC [-] [20:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the incident with bbet, can be explained without miner cartel. [20:10]
asciilifeform evil nodes suffice. [20:11]
mircea_popescu specifically the "sudden mining of an old 0fee tx" ? how ? [20:11]
asciilifeform you just need 1 coopted miner. [20:11]
mircea_popescu "pet miner". if pet miner has 1% of hash, the observed phenomena occur 1% of cases. [20:11]
asciilifeform of modest stature. [20:11]
mircea_popescu and if it doesn't find a block that day ? [20:11]
davout <<< the "sybil testing" part is not documented in the qntra piece or did I miss it? [20:11]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:07:12; mircea_popescu: but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly. [20:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what makes you think they haven't been squeezing the trigger for 100 shots [20:11]
asciilifeform until this finally fired. [20:11]
mircea_popescu i've been watching. this is 1.5 to maaaaybe 2. [20:12]
asciilifeform i can easily see that this pistol might shoot 1% of the time the trigger is pulled. [20:12]
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asciilifeform this, perhaps, was 100th. [20:12]
mircea_popescu i had been watching. this, and many other things. [20:12]
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assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [20:13]
mircea_popescu but anyway, yes, if you believe 1 in 100, they yes, you don't need cartel, just persistent miner. [20:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is my current picture. [20:14]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -1 to -1 with note: basic scammer, no accountability [20:14]
asciilifeform nubbins` i think you already did this earlier [20:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform by this logic tho, are there also 99 bitcoins we don't know about ? 99 linuxen ? 99 gccs that statically link ? [20:16]
davout thinking about it, I interpret the fact that A1 did not (on first attempt) get relayed to my node as indicative of nodes *not* being merely facades for some sort of 'super-node' [20:16]
mircea_popescu davout how do you figure ? [20:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: waiwut [20:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my hypothesis was that it suffices for the enemy to have a pistol that does this, e.g., per every N trigger pulls, and that the number came up. [20:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know, and we for whatever reasons just see the 1 in 100 gunshot. [20:17]
asciilifeform aha [20:17]
asciilifeform much about the turdnet is stochastic, and so this is mega-unsurprise. [20:17]
davout mircea_popescu: if everyone's actually the same node, broadcasting to one node is actually broadcasting to everyone, and it follows that it should have relayed properly. I guess it can also be the sign of your connections all actually being to the same sybilling node [20:18]
asciilifeform davout: issue is that 'everyone knew' SOLELY for the purpose of rejecting a1...n but NOT for relay to miner! [20:18]
davout nubbins`: for the tx not to relay at all it has to be 'false' for everyone [20:19]
asciilifeform aha. [20:19]
mircea_popescu davout i don't think you take my meaning. the situation that you imagine is, "hey, whatever, summertime and a bunch of us are at the beach". the situation in reality is, "a moroccan clan and some fat frenchies at the beach". guess how likely you are to a) find out the price of dried fruit and b) find out that you aren't finding out the price of dried fruit. [20:19]
mircea_popescu or if you prefer, see phf's example with "my friend, the kgb agent" [20:19]
gribble but where does that leave the 17 btc of your own funds that you put on bitbet's liability sheet? [20:20]
mircea_popescu you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care. [20:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is sorta sheckley's hour of battle thing. [20:20]
mircea_popescu in a sense. [20:20]
* CrazyTruthYakDDS (uid67551@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:20]
gribble omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract [20:21]
davout asciilifeform: it might also very well be that most nodes use similar relay policies and that A1 simply didn't satisfy the relaying rules [20:23]
mircea_popescu anyway, i've been thinking about your theory ever since, but i don't credit it asciilifeform. for one thing, it's unstable. seriously, supernode and miniminer ? it'd get torn apart. [20:23]
mircea_popescu back in the day bitcoin mining was healthy, after a fashion, pools came and went. they've been stable for a long time now. [20:23]
asciilifeform davout: if it did not satisfy relaying rules, WHERE DID IT COME FROM on day x !? [20:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: tell how not stable ? [20:23]
asciilifeform some bastard is running 3000+ sybils. what's unstable here. [20:24]
mircea_popescu because the other miners would have an incentive to destroy the miniminer's supernode, and there's jackl the miniminer could do to protect it. [20:24]
mircea_popescu a supernode only grows in the shade of miner cartel. [20:24]
asciilifeform the other miners are amoeba ? [20:24]
mircea_popescu i'm not saying what you're saying is provably impossible. i am saying to my eyes - it is very improbable. [20:24]
* joesmoe (~joesmoe@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:24]
davout asciilifeform: i do not claim I know where it came from, but do note that 'not being relayed by most nodes' is absolutely not conflicting with 'some dude rebroadcast it because he felt like it' [20:24]
asciilifeform it is quite unclear to me that they have the brains of a teenager writing trojans in vb in murmansk. [20:25]
mircea_popescu but i dunno how to carry that particular discussion in a way that'd dispose. [20:25]
asciilifeform collectively. [20:25]
mircea_popescu well... this is hard to argue against. [20:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5} [20:26]
mircea_popescu it is also the first time i've seeing you err on THIS side ever before. [20:26]
mircea_popescu so i guess you do balance, after all ! [20:26]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i conduct own 'intel', and yes, i don't have a radiotelescope like mircea_popescu's, only eyes. [20:26]
davout <<< well, I *am* running a node in the sense that I receive and broadcast transactions (with the occasional double-spend) just fine [20:26]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care. [20:26]
mircea_popescu my telescope, in it being man made not god given, is not much more than a tool. [20:26]
mircea_popescu davout that's what i mean by positive. yes, "it works". [20:27]
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mircea_popescu this is very different from the negative, "it doesn't not work". [20:27]
asciilifeform at any rate i am broadly unconvinced that network sybil octopus needs any kind of miners other than a small share of standard hashrate. [20:27]
asciilifeform in order to wreck things. [20:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but in order to maintain itself! [20:28]
asciilifeform sybil octopus can get between victim and miners as a whole. and yes, this is enabled by the concentration of hash power in a shithole kingdom. [20:28]
mircea_popescu i mean... miners can just... ban it. [20:28]
asciilifeform how do they identify the pseudopods ? [20:28]
mircea_popescu "not our own" ? [20:28]
davout mircea_popescu: well, it also "doesn't not work" in the sense that I sometimes have got transactions stuck because I'm a cheap zero-fee jew, that I got unstuck by issuing a double-spend [20:29]
* joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [20:29]
asciilifeform the miners gotta accept tx from white devils [20:29]
asciilifeform because that's who does the bulk of tx-ing [20:29]
davout now i'm unsure how to further go into negative bitcoin definition [20:29]
asciilifeform they cannot plug the hose from their arse into their mouths and sustain themselves. [20:29]
mircea_popescu davout i don't mean it as an attack or anything. and the question of exploring the negative is open now and will remain open until spec. [20:29]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i will attend to this as soon as i get home. [20:29]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i am on the stake. [20:29]
davout nubbins`: absence of proof isn't proof of absence yo [20:30]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i'm about to commit gluttony and lust. [20:30]
davout :D [20:30]
* trinque fist-bumps asciilifeform [20:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform even so, i don't think banning sybil reduces to "unable to talk to white devils". [20:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suspect that they, supposing there were brains anywhere involved, ~tried~ to fight the octopus but eventually lost. [20:32]
mircea_popescu i've encountered to signs of this animal, and this is such an unlikely event if there were a battle even ? [20:32]
asciilifeform where, incidentally, do most tx fodder for cn miners originate ? i do not have good data for this. [20:32]
mircea_popescu used to come straight out of bluematt's arse. [20:33]
asciilifeform i am not in the habit of eating from arse. [20:33]
mircea_popescu "lighting network" [20:33]
asciilifeform so i have ~no data. [20:33]
mircea_popescu or somesuch [20:33]
asciilifeform at any rate, i have long seen nodes as an astonishingly weak point, which is why i pressed the whole pogo thing [20:34]
mircea_popescu in any case : some degree of proxying is absolutely unavoidable in bitcoin relay , because ... ddos. [20:34]
asciilifeform the whole orchestra does no one any good if there is reliably amoebic scum between your console and the free world. [20:34]
mircea_popescu well yeah, had we had the pogos deployed last year or somesuch this might have been a very different story. [20:34]
mircea_popescu but... no pogos. because no static linking in gcc. because etc. [20:35]
asciilifeform the sad part is that i fixed pretty much all of the cthonic hell-pits that prevented pogo, [20:35]
asciilifeform aside from the two listed earlier. [20:35]
asciilifeform (the blkindex and mempool exhaustion) [20:35]
mircea_popescu re prev point : so yeah, most strong nodes will have multiple interfaces they look at. so most people (who know, as opposed of feeling like they know) aren't necessariyl surprised by ~some degree~ of sybiling. [20:36]
mircea_popescu which is what everyone (at least previously) told himself is happening to go to bed and not wake screaming [20:36]
asciilifeform recently i contemplated doing a rotor port to a chinese tv box, 1G of ram, available for ~30 usd in qty. infinite. but when the fuck would i do this, a student ought to do this [20:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey, don't feel bad, one can only try. [20:36]
asciilifeform i have 256 fingers but they are all in some orifice. [20:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'g' is another angle of attack against the octopus. [20:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm sure nubbins` will be done derping idly, dump the ugly broad, get the fuck out of the meaningless paper products shuffling, get back in math school and generally make himself useful. any day now. [20:37]
asciilifeform which is actually why i invented it. [20:37]
mircea_popescu looking forward to the nubbins 1g box so he can be a lord on his own merit for once. [20:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you said chix can be taught anything. teach >= one to partake in this. [20:38]
asciilifeform i would much appreciate. [20:38]
asciilifeform ever see picture of the 19th c. german one-man band things ? [20:38]
mircea_popescu do i charge s.nsa ? what's the shareholders think ? [20:38]
asciilifeform a bloke with drum, tuba, etc. [20:38]
mircea_popescu the long suffering s.nsa shareholders lol [20:38]
asciilifeform that's me right now. [20:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i almost forgot that nubbins` was a math grad!? [20:39]
asciilifeform but hm, iirc he was. [20:39]
* asciilifeform will bbl, removing stake from arse, driving home. [20:41]
* cazalla (~cazalla@unaffiliated/cazalla) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:42]
* assbot gives voice to cazalla [20:43]
cazalla now this is podracing! nice logs [20:44]
pete_dushenski podracing ? like the episode i thing ? [20:44]
cazalla it's a me me pete_dushenski [20:45]
mircea_popescu curious how long before alf buys one of those self-driving cars so he can irc while he idles. [20:45]
mircea_popescu ;;ud podracing [20:46]
gribble | When you jerk off two dicks at once. The dicks must be on each side, so it looks like you're pod racing. [20:46]
mircea_popescu no homo. [20:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2543 @ 0.00053211 = 1.3532 BTC [+] {2} [20:46]
cazalla ahah [20:46]
pete_dushenski wasn't there a southpark about that ?/ [20:46]
* joesmoe_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [20:46]
pete_dushenski kyle's dad and a hot tub or something [20:46]
* adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:46]
cazalla nfi, have not watched many of the more recent seasons [20:47]
cazalla don't recall that one in anycase [20:47]
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* shinohai sighs [20:48]
pete_dushenski cazalla: aha! [20:50]
assbot Two Guys Naked in a Hot Tub - South Park Archives - Wikia ... ( ) [20:50]
pete_dushenski "Randy asks Gerald if he'd ever had a gay fantasy and Gerald explains that he has always thought of watching another guy masturbate. The fantasy then becomes a reality." [20:51]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:27:57] look: true or false: mp is fraudulently entering 17btc into bitbet's liabilities [20:51]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:04] correct [20:51]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:23] i am not arguing that. [20:51]
gribble just for you mp [20:51]
cazalla fwiw, and isn't worth much, i think nubbins` has legit cause for complaint, shame to see the fangs and then venom flow though [20:52]
cazalla pete_dushenski, never seen pod racing used in that context though, guess ill find a new me me [20:52]
pete_dushenski cazalla: gotta have fangs and venom, or else it's just huggy reddit... [20:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00053622 = 10.0809 BTC [+] [20:54]
danielpbarron nubbins`, we get it already. I don't think spamming and circumventing other people's ignore help your case.. [20:54]
danielpbarron what should I do? /part ? [20:55]
cazalla pete_dushenski, sure, but sometimes a dry bite is all that's needed [20:55]
deedbot- [Daniel P. Barron] Are you thankful? - [20:56]
danielpbarron on that note.. [20:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28307 @ 0.00053622 = 15.1788 BTC [+] [20:56]
* pete_dushenski can't help but wonder if nubbins` has s.mpoe or s.bbet shorts. and if he didn't before, is now looking . if he just wants to "fleece some money out of [mp]", why not eh ? [20:56]
pete_dushenski danielpbarron: glad to see you're blogging btw :) [20:56]
danielpbarron and if my wwwtron dies again, i just archived it.. [20:57]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: but surely you could find someone who would sell you options [20:59]
pete_dushenski last! [21:00]
cazalla nubbins`, mp did say you are more than free to have another lord relay any messages [21:01]
hanbot jurov> !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity << jurov seriously, is yest/today's spewage what sanity is to you? are you out of yer mind? [21:01]
* danielpbarron is fairly heavily invested in Eulora via his character who is one of the richest players in the world [21:01]
cazalla nubbins`, sure, but now you're misrepresenting other issues [21:02]
jurov hanbot surprise surprise i happen to agree with the "spewage" ant i asked similar questions [21:02]
cazalla he won't cash your stock warrant as he has you on ignore? it's clear such a request can be relayed to him if required [21:02]
cazalla nubbins`, tell me what you really think of me! lol [21:03]
hanbot jurov you asked questions. all i see from nubbins is ~24hrs of rabbling, at pretty much anyone who tries to engage him. [21:03]
cazalla nubbins`, raw cunt is quite endearing to an australian :) [21:04]
punkman imho, bitbet can decide to spend its future profits on whatever they want, advertising, servers, or 100% bonuses to random bettors. it doesn't make me want to buy more bitbet shares of course. [21:04]
jurov hanbot rabbling is better than silence [21:04]
pete_dushenski ;;ud qqing [21:05]
gribble | Top Definition. qqing. Whining/crying about something. From QQ. "Stop being sexist!" "Stop qqing." by A Person Who You Don't Know October 27, 2013. 13 7. [21:05]
hanbot okay, but is it -sanity-?! [21:05]
jurov hanbot so tell us your opinion, is it sane what mircea did, without even telling kakobrekla, when contract demands unanimous agreement on such thing? [21:06]
danielpbarron nubbins`, i'm trying to give you an out to the negative rating i fear i will eventually have to give you, and I don't mean that as a threat, just that at a certain point what you are doing is spamming, and i like to read this log every day and have the power to at least turn the nozzle two clicks towards the off position [21:06]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: makes me think of japanimation [21:06]
mircea_popescu cazalla everyone has very legit cause for complaint. the problem is that [the subsection of everyone who thinks the us is the world] imagines that the thing to do when you got legit cause of complaint is to try and identify a kulak and get him to admit his mistakes. [21:06]
mircea_popescu no idea why he imagines that'll carry, but whatever. it ain't gonna. he doesn't like bitcoin - he can either fix it or stick to cad. [21:06]
mircea_popescu wanna complain, go negrate the set of power rangers that made this idiocy possible, da fuck already. [21:07]
assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( ) [21:07]
hanbot jurov hehe what're you doing with such loaded questions? mind you, i'm not suggesting you're wrong for disagreeing or asking or anything of the sort. i'm just curious about your judgment of what i see as a guy on full tilt. [21:08]
jurov i like guys on full tilt! [21:08]
hanbot lol [21:08]
mircea_popescu i like guys on fult tilt too, is the weird thing. [21:08]
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danielpbarron hm.. idk if that's ever been tested actually [21:08]
mircea_popescu ;;seen eskimobob [21:08]
gribble eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: no idea how executions are shown on btct [21:08]
mircea_popescu wow it's been 3 years already ? too long, even. [21:09]
danielpbarron yeah but ability to self voice is through ~L2~ [21:09]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [21:09]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Ethereum to top $1 billion market cap before 2017 - [21:10]
mircea_popescu jurov contract demands unanimous agreement on dispositions of bitbet. if it's sold, say. it doesn't demand, nor has in practice been ever the case that its sought in all matters. [21:10]
mircea_popescu i had no idea he even wants or wanted the liability - but my guess is no, he didn't. [21:10]
jurov 3.2h solemnly concerns *expenses* [21:11]
mircea_popescu he also has had at all points ~0 say in how bets are resolved, for instance. [21:11]
mircea_popescu "t, that all expenses charged against BitBet will exclusively reflect expenditure in good faith resulting from the operation of its business" [21:11]
mircea_popescu this is what this is. [21:12]
jurov Well. 1.who and when decided to send zerofee tx 2. how is that evver acting in good faith? [21:12]
mircea_popescu how is this open to your inquiry ? [21:13]
jurov *rolls eyes* [21:13]
mircea_popescu yes ? [21:13]
jurov Yes. [21:14]
mircea_popescu you think who and when decided what in a private corp is open to your inquiry because you have the ability to roll your eyes ? [21:15]
jurov Yes. [21:15]
mircea_popescu this is nice, but i don't credit it. [21:15]
BingoBoingo kyle's dad and a hot tub or something << Kyle's dad and Randy's dad. 2nd part of 3 that includes Jew Scouts [21:15]
jurov Others who are directly involved in the agreement may credit it. [21:15]
jurov Or not, of course. [21:16]
mircea_popescu i guess then they can answer or w/e. [21:16]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: bingo. [21:16]
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mircea_popescu jurov> hanbot rabbling is better than silence <<< not really. see the jirinovski problem. an idiot spewing makes the discussion that much harder for saner people with meaningful things to say. [21:17]
jurov mircea_popescu: well, if the discussion got so hard now, where are all the negrates? [21:19]
mircea_popescu what do you mean ? [21:19]
jurov if #b-a thinks nubbins` should not have a voice, let's negrate him [21:20]
* joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [21:20]
mircea_popescu looky, a republic is not a democracy no matter on what face you turn the democracy pebble. [21:20]
mircea_popescu but that aside, i did mean about the ugly broad and the general waster attitude. who knows, maybe discovering how little credit he carries with the people he likes and who he flattered himself into seeing as equals provides the much needed impetuus to make something of himself. [21:24]
mircea_popescu this whole "nubbins, the guy who made some funny observations" thing is certainly punching below his weight. [21:24]
pete_dushenski notpossibru [21:26]
hanbot jurov i'll be doing that; ignoring him clears the shit from my client but not the nice logs, and after two attempts to get the guy to speak rather'n spew (just mine, mind you), we find the guy figures he's my "elder" because i asked some questions about gentoo, of all things. [21:26]
* BingoBoingo awaits allegations of lasers [21:26]
assbot ... ( ) [21:26]
hanbot anyway i'm not sure if i oughta take jurov's rating as a wholesale endorsement. advise as ya like. [21:27]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: let's just say i coulda done long track speed skating ;) [21:27]
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shinohai I must say hanbot - awesum outfit. [21:30]
* joesmoe_ has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [21:30]
* danielpbarron sighs [21:31]
danielpbarron !rated nubbins` [21:31]
assbot You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: He's good for a trade in the 1 bitcoin range.. [21:31]
danielpbarron !gettrust assbot nubbins` [21:32]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 10 via 12 connections. | | [21:32]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-1:5a354a1ffe0871d83743d45093803fc184c2e412a326a17fe4b049761b7be9ad [21:32]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not [21:32]
danielpbarron well that was only 2 clicks, 8 more to go [21:35]
danielpbarron !gettrust assbot nubbins` [21:35]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 8 via 12 connections. | | [21:35]
danielpbarron that remains to be seen [21:35]
danielpbarron anyway, easy go easy come; I think you have some valid grievances, just going about it the wrong way [21:36]
danielpbarron i don't like you abusing the bots to get around an ignore [21:37]
danielpbarron write a blog article, deedbot your formal accusation, say whatever ~once~ in the log (not 20 times) [21:37]
trinque probably not firing off a "fuck you" to everyone you can think of in one conversation, l0l [21:37]
trinque free to do it [21:37]
trinque but it's not persuasive [21:38]
danielpbarron i can actually did yours for you if you don't feel like figuring it out (it's very simple) [21:38]
assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:19; nubbins`: also deed-ified here: [21:38]
danielpbarron deed yours* [21:38]
assbot ... ( ) [21:38]
danielpbarron deedbot- [21:39]
assbot Public Key Server -- Get "0xcf2950f23c844002 " ... ( ) [21:39]
deedbot- Bad URL or network outage. [21:39]
trinque erm no [21:39]
trinque I would bet his key's already in there [21:39]
trinque deedbot-: [21:40]
assbot ... ( ) [21:40]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [21:40]
trinque ^ [21:40]
trinque [21:40]
danielpbarron deedbot- [21:40]
assbot ... ( ) [21:40]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [21:40]
danielpbarron there ya go [21:40]
danielpbarron ah crap [21:40]
trinque nubbins`: been about a year and a month, and I don't have any plans to shut it down [21:41]
trinque danielpbarron: I will remove the dupe [21:41]
* danielpbarron hangs head in shame [21:41]
BingoBoingo ;;google hugelkultur [21:41]
gribble hugelkultur: the ultimate raised garden beds - ; The Many Benefits of Hugelkultur | Permaculture Magazine: ; Hugelkultur - Inspiration Green: [21:41]
danielpbarron yes that is what i told you around the time you just linked from the log [21:41]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [21:41]
trinque nubbins`: it'll fart at the hour, upload at the 15 [21:42]
danielpbarron i think it depends if any other deeds get bundled with it [21:43]
trinque this one sha256's the bundle (all messages of that hour separated by single
), uses that as privkey
* pete_dushenski off to train the next generation of would-be long track speedskaters [21:47]
* pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [21:47]
* nubbins` has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: [21:51]
hanbot !v assbot:hanbot.rate.nubbins`.-1:001b32f62b0e9367cf7b1300337c3a35571273ba07885b35c1bd4fc70e900e0b [21:52]
assbot Successfully added a rating of -1 for nubbins` with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole. See . [21:52]
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asciilifeform oh buggerall. [21:53]
asciilifeform what does gentoo even have to do with it?! [21:53]
asciilifeform nubbins`...? [21:54]
BingoBoingo alf has boat, hanbot has dike, /me wonders what next metaphor for the waters BTC precariously insulates from will be [21:54]
hanbot lol [21:54]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: btc is the good ship aurora. [21:54]
asciilifeform y'know, the one with the cement bottom. [21:54]
asciilifeform in the leningrad harbor. [21:55]
trinque lol [21:55]
BingoBoingo ah [21:55]
asciilifeform << oblig. [21:56]
assbot Что тебе снится, крейсер "Аврора" - YouTube ... ( ) [21:56]
shinohai dam [21:57]
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asciilifeform 'what are you dreaming, cruiser aurora ' [21:57]
asciilifeform << english. [21:58]
assbot What are you dreaming of, Cruiser Aurora? with subtitles | Amara ... ( ) [21:58]
asciilifeform anyway. [21:58]
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BingoBoingo In other news, is that a dick on the right side? [22:02]
assbot ... ( ) [22:02]
asciilifeform << fwiw, some of the folks i showed that picture to, i suspect, literally creamed their pants [22:05]
assbot Logged on 08-03-2016 00:30:14; shinohai: I must say hanbot - awesum outfit. [22:05]
asciilifeform in unrelated nyooz, my rom emulator is here. [22:05]
asciilifeform and holy shit, the chassis is ~steel~ [22:06]
asciilifeform 'made in usa' [22:06]
shinohai O.o [22:06]
asciilifeform i can almost imagine i live in 1980. [22:06]
shinohai pics? [22:06]
asciilifeform [22:07]
asciilifeform ^ it [22:07]
assbot ... ( ) [22:07]
asciilifeform pretty common unit. [22:08]
shinohai That looks fun. :D [22:08]
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shinohai BingoBoingo: did you see what they called in to get that hamplanet off the truck today? [22:12]
assbot 2016-03-07 170122000 4A542 iOS - vidme ... ( ) [22:12]
BingoBoingo shinohai: Can you give me a quick ;tldw [22:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15146 @ 0.00053398 = 8.0877 BTC [-] [22:12]
shinohai 'twas a special "HEavy Rescue Unit" [22:13]
shinohai I kek'd [22:13]
BingoBoingo lol [22:14]
mod6 haha [22:14]
shinohai I almost felt sorry for the cops tasked with detaining her. [22:15]
BingoBoingo she prolly pooped in the car [22:16]
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shinohai I was actually surprised the roof of the truck didn't collapse under the weight. [22:22]
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BingoBoingo Beetus [22:30]
assbot ... ( ) [22:30]
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shinohai Well at least you won't have to worry about her running around on you! [22:34]
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mod6 haha shinohai [22:46]
asciilifeform mod6: mega-l0gz [22:47]
mircea_popescu with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole <<< wait, did i just get called a fat homosexual woman ? [22:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> i can almost imagine i live in 1980. << the things one yearns for [22:53]
* mircea_popescu thought the 80s fucking sucked. then again, back then hadn't seen the 90s. 00s. 10s. etc. [22:53]
mircea_popescu shinohai no, that is PRECISELY what you'll have to worry about : her running around ON you. [22:54]
asciilifeform everyone thinks this. until the world is replaced with brittle plastic. [22:54]
asciilifeform and half-working machinery. [22:54]
mircea_popescu absence of cool is no cooling of absence tho. 80s still fucking sucked. [22:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45410 @ 0.00053198 = 24.1572 BTC [-] {2} [22:55]
mircea_popescu what was it, cher on every channel and the velvet fog on every radio ? [22:55]
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* asciilifeform goes, and looks up, what was a cher, and what is a velvet fog. [23:04]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: mega-l0gz << oh yeah, been reading all day. [23:05]
BingoBoingo cher is a sort of kaiju [23:05]
asciilifeform wats a kaiju [23:06]
* BingoBoingo assumes velvet fog is a tropical illness [23:06]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: a kaiju is one of those japanese monster from the films with the people in the suits [23:06]
mircea_popescu sometimes if you crack open an acaju nut, a tiny girl comes out, and you feed her various comestibles and eventually grows up into a slavegirl. [23:06]
asciilifeform godzilla? [23:06]
BingoBoingo godzilla, cher, et al [23:07]
BingoBoingo yes [23:07]
mircea_popescu and this my dear alf is how slaves are born on the planet gor. [23:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i thought this was how you got momotaro, the peach pit samurai. [23:07]
asciilifeform who slays ogres. [23:07]
mircea_popescu also. [23:07]
mircea_popescu ;;google velvet fog best of in autoplay format that can't be turned off. ever. [23:08]
gribble Preview Unreal Engine 4.11 Preview [Archive] - Unreal Engine Forums: ; 2015 Chrysler 300: ; Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - Zone Doubt (aka Surreal Я Us): [23:08]
mircea_popescu holy shit ?! [23:08]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, cher was a teenage pop singer chick that successfully pivoted into a sort of softcore burlesque career pre dita von teese. also married to sony bono. [23:10]
mircea_popescu and the velvet fog aka mel torme was this very soppy lounge act / singer mostly on the old vegas circuit. [23:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147450 @ 0.00053198 = 78.4405 BTC [-] [23:37]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [23:49]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.9, vol: 5713.29998851 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.216, vol: 7342.69249 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.65, vol: 14857.74689053 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 3.54660738 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.047083, vol: 46801.24770000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.288, vol: 1164.83181327 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.484368, vol: 34.89035527 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [23:49]
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BingoBoingo ;;more [23:53]
gribble 417.001259016 [23:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1947 @ 0.00053397 = 1.0396 BTC [+] {2} [23:55]
Category: Logs
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