Forum logs for 05 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
decimation what brings you here jordandotdev? [00:00]
ben_vulpes what brings you /back/, jordandotdev? [00:01]
* ben_vulpes is alive, barely [00:01]
jordandotdev I don't know it was in my autojoin channels list [00:01]
jordandotdev haven't logged into irccloud in a few weeks [00:01]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: WHat ails you? Kittens? Puppies? [00:05]
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decimation ragweed? [00:06]
ben_vulpes an surfeit of things to do and people to do them [00:06]
ben_vulpes a* [00:06]
ben_vulpes increasingly, becoming a problem i nthe us, too. << tell me about it [00:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25971 @#64; 0.0005145 = 13.3621 BTC [-] {4} [00:07]
BingoBoingo Has giant ragweed made it that far north yet? [00:08]
BingoBoingo https://archive.is/nrX72 << Moar streaming, Moar copyrastas [00:08]
assbot Major League Baseball just signed a huge deal to stream NHL content | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoOO75 ) [00:08]
mircea_popescu proposed BingoBoingo boxing partner http://41.media.tumblr.com/966fea39212db8797c6799648e7d8025/tumblr_n2ea5m0ZnX1ss63vyo1_1280.jpg [00:08]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoOR2R ) [00:08]
* BingoBoingo may lose, but would be ok with that [00:09]
mircea_popescu to lose is to win! [00:09]
BingoBoingo It really is. [00:09]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224763 << yeah, you really want "triphased" ie 380v [00:12]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 02:03:47; BingoBoingo: Depends on scale? Maybe scale demands 660 volt or 1.3kilovolt? [00:12]
mircea_popescu which, in europe, costs the asking. [00:13]
mircea_popescu in south america simply can't be had period [00:13]
mircea_popescu i imagine in the us it costs note from stalin [00:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you got mailz [00:14]
asciilifeform (broadcast!) [00:14]
mircea_popescu cool! [00:14]
decimation in us you must have 'note from local stalin' ie zoning board [00:15]
decimation and/or local electric monopoly [00:15]
* BingoBoingo waiting for mails. Doing the dance again with Uni to set up job interview. This time as customer service god. Would once again take cheapest of accomodations available for the lulz. [00:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13031 @#64; 0.00050581 = 6.5912 BTC [-] [00:16]
decimation interesting europe does use 380v [00:17]
decimation weird [00:17]
asciilifeform in same places as usa - 240 [00:18]
mircea_popescu yes. why weird ? [00:18]
BingoBoingo http://www.bnd.com/news/local/crime/article29918518.html << Apparently US bullets don't kill anymore? Or false flag? [00:18]
assbot Shiloh police investigating gunshots fired toward tavern | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ijlo9i ) [00:18]
mircea_popescu europe uses 220 for residential, 380 optional. or otherwise you can get a 2 or 5kv industrial line. [00:18]
decimation mircea_popescu: because usa uses 480v [00:18]
decimation for industrial three-phase [00:18]
mircea_popescu i think the usa 480 is used in place of the 2kv myeah [00:18]
BingoBoingo Fuck it, I want the raw shit before it hits the transformer. I want to light my abode with an arc stretching across the room. [00:19]
mircea_popescu not os healthy. [00:20]
asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/KgCCvTC.jpg [00:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoQspk ) [00:20]
BingoBoingo Ozone isn't as bad as the cigarettes I already smoke [00:20]
asciilifeform ^ in the city where i wurk [00:20]
decimation us actually uses 240 for residential but it's delivered in two phases which are split at the panel. but it's common to use the full 240 for dryers and large equipment [00:21]
asciilifeform according to fishwrap, some schmuck argued with gurl. policeman busted in. he snapped, drew pistol, shot gurl, then self in the head, brainz in all directions [00:21]
decimation wait, schmuck or policeman? [00:22]
asciilifeform schmuck [00:22]
mircea_popescu i'm not entirely clear why the thiord phase is 160 rather than 110 in eu syste, but anywya [00:22]
* BingoBoingo can't wait till Fergusonversary [00:22]
asciilifeform possibly all the police in the county ended up at the scene. largely standing around and looking busy [00:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the lower number is generally root-mean-square [00:22]
asciilifeform the higher, peak to peak sine [00:22]
asciilifeform this is the basic confusion of voltage oddities [00:22]
mircea_popescu doesn't seem to fit [00:23]
mircea_popescu but i'm too lazy to actually figure it, so. [00:23]
BingoBoingo That was a good parking garage http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/officers-won-t-face-charges-in-fatal-shooting-at-mizzou/article_5e355582-020d-564a-b61c-9348bf74194b.html [00:23]
BingoBoingo And further a lol only socialism can bring http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-sues-own-civil-service-commission-over-reinstatement-of/article_ff9a4c8e-9783-5d43-aefb-f52aa07180d9.html [00:24]
assbot St. Louis sues own Civil Service Commission over reinstatement of police officer : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoQRrK ) [00:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: approx., rms ~= 0.7071 * peaktopeak [00:24]
asciilifeform e.g., rms(170) ~= 120, the u.s. traditional [00:24]
decimation yeah for example in us 3-phase 480 volt, half (phase to neutral) is 240 [00:24]
decimation which is what is split off and run to house [00:25]
asciilifeform (1/sqrt(2) for the curious) [00:25]
decimation typically ac voltage is worked in rms, because it acts like dc [00:25]
asciilifeform aha [00:25]
asciilifeform or rather, the rms value is the one which makes any sense to use in calculation of wattage [00:25]
decimation yes [00:25]
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* decimation didn't take power engineering in ee school; had other things to worry about [00:26]
BingoBoingo Fuck it, it has been a while http://slashdot.org/submission/4733189/dod-surrenders-large-legacy-ipv4-allocation [00:26]
assbot DoD Surrenders Large Legacy IPv4 Allocation - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoR7ad ) [00:26]
decimation my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time [00:27]
decimation along side 'electricians' [00:27]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it is about as 'shocking' as when usg 'surrendered' the 'strategic helium reserve' to smiths's detection corp. to make neutron detectors to sell back to usg/dhs [00:27]
decimation I found it disappointing that having an ee degree counts for nothing when designing wiring for your house [00:28]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it is a traditionally american type of graft, practiced enthusiastically and mostly openly since george washington [00:28]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: You don't understand. If Assad did this the rope would be on Ebay [00:28]
asciilifeform l0l [00:28]
decimation asciilifeform: go try to pull an electrical permit from pg county on the basis of your degrees [00:29]
asciilifeform decimation: aha, it is a guild thing [00:29]
asciilifeform no apprenticeship, no permit [00:29]
asciilifeform go and get license to practice medicine on the basis of, whatever, nobel in biology [00:29]
asciilifeform same idea. [00:29]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo cool beans [00:29]
decimation indeed. [00:29]
* assbot removes voice from jordandotdev [00:29]
BingoBoingo my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time << In hometown I once pulled permit to fuck with wiring by saying "Hey mayor Joe, sign this" [00:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually in ro they let you do it. [00:30]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hey, in ru you can even get driver license for a benjie [00:30]
asciilifeform (no exams, etc) [00:30]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Not on front page yet, but may as well submit since no one else took this low hanging tomato [00:30]
asciilifeform almost a 'litmus' for orc lands [00:30]
asciilifeform can you get license without ever having touched a steering wheel [00:31]
decimation asciilifeform: you should try that in pg county [00:31]
decimation I bet it would work [00:31]
mircea_popescu nah, the idea is that if you get a good enough achievement, you get auto-diploma or w/e. [00:31]
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mircea_popescu i got to bypass normal college entrance exams because olympiads. [00:31]
decimation us knows nothing like this [00:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is the basic 'orc' mechanism - someone had the liberty to say 'this kid passes, because fuck all of you' [00:31]
mircea_popescu so yeah, can practice medicine on basis of nobel prize. [00:31]
asciilifeform in usa this is unthinkable [00:32]
mircea_popescu nah, it was a rule per se. [00:32]
decimation absolutely unthinkable [00:32]
decimation think of all the bureaucrats that would suddenly be powerless [00:32]
mircea_popescu quite. [00:32]
asciilifeform even ~actual~ medical degree from, e.g., ussr, is specifically not recognized by usg [00:32]
mircea_popescu which is the very poiint of it. [00:32]
asciilifeform doesn't matter how many decades of practice [00:32]
decimation asciilifeform: yes, same for pharmacists & other medical 'trades' [00:32]
mircea_popescu iirc had that too. if decades of practice, valid degree by default. [00:32]
asciilifeform (i suppose the entrails of untermenschen differ from those of aryans, hence degree doesn't count) [00:33]
mircea_popescu might have been thrown out meanwhielk tho [00:33]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-August/078072.html << l0l [00:33]
assbot Leak or legit ? 11/8 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IjnxBP ) [00:33]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224790 << the deal is, the us keeps pretending like it's fighting and in exchange the cartels keep pretending like they're fighting too. [00:36]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: for instance, where are the u.s. coast guard interdictors sunk by quadcopter-borne demolition charges ? [00:36]
mircea_popescu the idiotic non-violent behaviour of ruminants is not limited to ruminants. nobody really aims to gore the other party. [00:36]
mircea_popescu except maybe us, allegedly. [00:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my (admittedly limited) understanding is that usg play-fights with ~some~ organizations, and ~actually~ interdicts others [00:37]
mircea_popescu maybe [00:37]
mircea_popescu it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ? [00:37]
mircea_popescu even that got negotiated away. [00:37]
mircea_popescu pencildicks wanna use the heads. because dicks frangible. [00:38]
decimation they do when the papers say embarassing things [00:38]
decimation embarassing to bureaucrats [00:38]
decimation otherwise the bureaucrats don't give a fuck [00:38]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224797 << if you can you must and all that. recall the discussion. [00:39]
asciilifeform dope from 'favourite sons' - passes. from less-favourite - interdicted, to keep the jailatron lubed, and the high priesthood supplied with coke [00:39]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 02:24:30; asciilifeform: the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin [00:39]
mircea_popescu heroin is really the perfect answer to the overpopulation problem. [00:39]
mircea_popescu reddit can't resist it, so... [00:39]
asciilifeform perfect answer to ~the other fella's~ 'overpopulation' yes [00:39]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Cloud cleanses all historicity [00:39]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2014#544231 << see also [00:40]
assbot Logged on 04-03-2014 01:44:19; asciilifeform: or mrs. thatcher's 'we need no more than 15 mil. russians. to service the pipeline.' [00:40]
mircea_popescu everyone's. [00:40]
ben_vulpes !s unable to join [00:40]
assbot 0 results for 'unable to join' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=unable+to+join [00:40]
mircea_popescu the problem is simply this : as you get successful you get fat, and that fat is then... coming to expect. [00:40]
BingoBoingo it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ? << Much of this demographic is USG. Not in the informant sense, but USG peeps needed meanign in their lives. [00:41]
ben_vulpes has anyone else compiled the maxint patch and received db.log errors of "unable to join environment"? [00:41]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: please post your debug.log [00:41]
BingoBoingo ^ [00:42]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i have not observed this, no [00:42]
decimation asciilifeform: did you figure out how you are gonna 'free' the data pointed to by map? [00:42]
asciilifeform got 3 (well, 3 public, 1 test platform) nodez running, with patch [00:42]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224830 << will make hfcs just fine [00:42]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 02:36:09; BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage. [00:42]
asciilifeform decimation: yes [00:42]
mircea_popescu and besides, there's plenty stockpiled [00:42]
asciilifeform decimation: not ready for primetime yet [00:42]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0W6AR1C [00:43]
assbot dpaste: 0W6AR1C ... ( http://bit.ly/1IjoJoM ) [00:43]
decimation in which cpp file is the allocation stuff? [00:43]
asciilifeform this is actually why only prices of ~food-grade food~ rise in usa [00:43]
asciilifeform of the recycled food - never [00:43]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Can make HCFS, but... less of it. Far less ears on the corn than I expect to see. [00:43]
asciilifeform decimation: nowhere. implicit destructor [00:43]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it stops here ? [00:43]
decimation my uni was across the river from massive hfcs plant. every day whole *trains* of hfcs tank cars would leave the station there [00:44]
asciilifeform decimation: i often watch the trains go by, where i live. often, whole train is this. [00:44]
asciilifeform prolefeed. [00:44]
decimation asciilifeform: lol no wonder 'leak' [00:44]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i don't even see it doing anything with strace [00:44]
ben_vulpes i'll try to nuke some state and come back with more useful information. [00:45]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: you mentioned an error ? [00:45]
asciilifeform where does it appear [00:45]
asciilifeform i don't see it in the paste [00:45]
ben_vulpes db.log, sir. [00:46]
asciilifeform plz post? [00:46]
asciilifeform (historically, i've found that fatal problems with db typically come from a dirty death) [00:46]
ben_vulpes http://dpaste.com/2W61D9D abridged [00:46]
assbot dpaste: 2W61D9D ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ijpcr6 ) [00:46]
asciilifeform which is why bitcoin has to be prevented from crashing, at more or less any cost [00:47]
ben_vulpes myes, i agree. [00:47]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ~which~ patch did you apply ? [00:47]
ben_vulpes however the build i made on 7-15 with the dumpblock patch boots from the same datadir. [00:47]
ben_vulpes maxint_locks [00:47]
asciilifeform link? [00:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform did you check this sig ? [00:48]
mircea_popescu gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7 [00:48]
mircea_popescu gpg: WARNING: signature digest conflict in message [00:48]
mircea_popescu gpg: Can't check signature: general error [00:48]
asciilifeform ! [00:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hash of plaintext? [00:49]
mircea_popescu 65865b6fdb76424c2535cf7a5f203fc88a541927e3e113db5c26a82e8a0561a8ca428ebe6611b1122f5ebc88c6bf3a3bcf1306ecfb1f4b4af29200967de43fc1 [00:49]
asciilifeform sha512? [00:49]
ben_vulpes the first, asciilifeform [00:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: does not match mine! [00:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no nm, false alarm. [00:50]
mircea_popescu the hash:sha512 line got mangled. [00:50]
asciilifeform l0l [00:50]
asciilifeform what a downer [00:51]
asciilifeform was hoping, glass cannon fired. [00:51]
decimation asciilifeform: so the basic problem with the map is that it never goes out of scope? [00:51]
asciilifeform decimation: the point is that .clear() doesn't invoke the destructors [00:52]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: did you find a reason why maxint wouldn't work, or is the second patch just using mircea_popescu's lock values for 'myzteeri0us reezuns'? [00:52]
asciilifeform this is apparently well-known to habitual users of 'boost' [00:52]
decimation ah, this is a feature of 'boost'? [00:52]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: go get the first (not 'CORRECTED') version of the patch [00:52]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it uses maxint [00:52]
mircea_popescu sorry but that [00:52]
asciilifeform and see what it does on your box. [00:52]
ben_vulpes that's the one i'm using! [00:52]
asciilifeform ahahahahaha [00:52]
asciilifeform that's why yer node is dead [00:53]
asciilifeform guessed as much. [00:53]
ben_vulpes ... [00:53]
ben_vulpes so i am to expect that patches arriving in the ML aren't even tested now? [00:53]
asciilifeform it was tested! [00:53]
asciilifeform and correction was posted minutes later [00:53]
mircea_popescu lol [00:53]
asciilifeform recall, flagship nodes were wedged [00:53]
asciilifeform was a very rushed thing. [00:53]
ben_vulpes "here's a fix" [00:54]
ben_vulpes "does it work?" [00:54]
ben_vulpes "let me see" [00:54]
asciilifeform see logz [00:54]
asciilifeform srsly, ben_vulpes managed to install the uncorrected patch in the minutes between it and the new one ?? [00:54]
ben_vulpes plz for to slightly more detail in patchdescs. [00:54]
decimation oh I thought this was all about the stl map, not boost unordered map [00:54]
asciilifeform did not read logz? [00:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list. [00:54]
asciilifeform just 'here's a patch, i'd better eat it' [00:54]
ben_vulpes started at ml, canonical information repository. [00:54]
ben_vulpes second patch contained a link to mp's "dis wat i do, yo" [00:55]
ben_vulpes so ofc i /try/ first patch [00:55]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he does have a point. and normally i include some 'work of literature' with these [00:55]
asciilifeform but world was on fire. [00:55]
mircea_popescu you know world is on fire to that degree pretty much weekly. [00:55]
ben_vulpes not even a note in correction about "lol sry first patch doesn't work" [00:56]
asciilifeform eh no. my nodez ran from ignition until wedge day [00:56]
BingoBoingo was hoping, glass cannon fired. << Might never fire [00:56]
mircea_popescu so you're new. [00:56]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: if there is every any symptom of folks reading the ml but not #b-a, it might be worth considering to use the ml as something other than a file dumping ground for #b-a [00:57]
ben_vulpes here's your indication! [00:57]
asciilifeform at any rate, ben_vulpes is invited to fill in the gap and write literature for this piece [00:57]
asciilifeform i gotta eat. brb [00:57]
ben_vulpes not that i'm not infinitely indebted to you for unwedging my coracle but a hint of context'd be useful. [00:58]
mircea_popescu the ml process needs some reviewing. it's sort of grown organically to a point where it's troublematic. [00:58]
ben_vulpes say it again. [00:58]
mircea_popescu for one thing, most everyone but us has a stable and a testing list. [00:59]
mircea_popescu i can appreciate the heroism of "fuck you, it's all stable". but then that comes at a cost. [00:59]
mircea_popescu the more common cop out is "fuck you, it's all testing". [00:59]
mircea_popescu that stance may come with a cost to the ego. [00:59]
ben_vulpes "all testing" which is what we've seen to date. [00:59]
mircea_popescu of course the logical approach would be to promote to stable ml patches that were signed [01:02]
mircea_popescu which is why the fuck we evern have the complexsignature scheme in place. [01:02]
mircea_popescu plox tell me it's not one of those where everyone is waiting for me to do it first or something. [01:02]
ben_vulpes i tried once [01:02]
ben_vulpes fucked it up somehow [01:02]
mircea_popescu how about submiutting a "This doesn't work - don't use it" thing on the broken one [01:03]
ben_vulpes i'm all for barriers to entry here but this is a goddamn development obstacle course [01:03]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: broken << sure, yeah. [01:04]
* ben_vulpes is struck by the eerie resemblance to $dayjaeorb here [01:06]
ben_vulpes "here have a pull request" [01:06]
ben_vulpes "does it work?" [01:06]
ben_vulpes "i don't know, let's test it during code review" [01:06]
ben_vulpes grand exaggeration. [01:06]
ben_vulpes nevertheless. [01:06]
decimation I'm still confused about this map thing. does anyone know exactly which map ascii is talking about? [01:06]
ben_vulpes decimation: i'm still 1.5klol behind [01:07]
decimation this is an infinite argument amoung developers: 'repo is for good code', 'no repo is for new code as it is being written' [01:08]
ben_vulpes dvcs means we can all have a repo [01:08]
ben_vulpes the fewer enforced constraints upon us, the more discipline with which we must act. [01:09]
BingoBoingo Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from? [01:09]
ben_vulpes last release, i'd prefer. asciilifeform tends to stack his patches atop one another. [01:10]
scoopbot_revived No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ [01:10]
ben_vulpes if you're up to date on the patching, submit a patch and note its antecedents. [01:11]
ben_vulpes this makes for quite the testing nightmare. those interested in testing must reverse applied patches to your antecedent tip and then apply yours. [01:11]
ben_vulpes from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so. [01:11]
ben_vulpes but this is bitcoin, where since time immemorial people have been shipping code that can only ever be tested in production and then standing by in amazement claiming that "nobody could have predicted!" [01:12]
ben_vulpes !s testing in production [01:12]
assbot 13 results for 'testing in production' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=testing+in+production [01:12]
trinque hey yo, I made a lot of noise about process early on [01:13]
trinque then stepped back when shouted down [01:13]
trinque the patch signing is great, but it's not a process by itself [01:13]
trinque will either need tools built to support it, or will need to grab tools [01:13]
trinque I had a hell of a time figuring out where I should be re: patches, at least before giving up and using rotor instead. [01:13]
ben_vulpes i can just imagine the arguments [01:13]
ben_vulpes "a real contributor would write all of their own tooling to solve this" [01:14]
ben_vulpes "what's so hard about applying patches to your private repository?" [01:14]
ben_vulpes "what, you want to automate this process that keeps the tards at bay?" [01:14]
trinque the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness" [01:14]
trinque then you can you know, use a power drill [01:14]
trinque and still work with non-dickheads [01:14]
ben_vulpes "what, you want to automate the nuclear power plant?" [01:14]
trinque hear fucking hear [01:14]
ben_vulpes i'm just trying to operate within these crazy boundaries. i don't have any process improvements that i'm sure wouldn't get shot down in a new york second from asciilifeform. [01:15]
ben_vulpes *i* have a repo. *it* has a *stable* and an *experimental* branch. [01:16]
trinque I bet it's in git too, you filthy swine [01:16]
ben_vulpes how much hell would i catch for sharing this with others? [01:16]
ben_vulpes of course! [01:16]
trinque look everything's bad. bad bad bad [01:16]
trinque I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table [01:17]
trinque gonna rebuild everything on earth? or gonna start somewhere [01:17]
decimation I thought ascii was okay with repos as long as it was clear which patches 'caused' the repo state [01:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59768 @#64; 0.00050358 = 30.098 BTC [-] {3} [01:18]
ben_vulpes all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators" [01:18]
ben_vulpes he can correct me if i'm wrong. [01:18]
decimation plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside [01:18]
decimation (for signers) [01:19]
trinque you can do the same process better with a hierarchy of git repos [01:19]
trinque ffs [01:19]
ben_vulpes patches and signatures in the repository itself. i'd not be averse. [01:19]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works [01:19]
ben_vulpes i know this. [01:19]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ideas welcome ! [01:20]
ben_vulpes can we share a git repository yet? [01:20]
ben_vulpes i'm not critiquing your patchstacking, note. [01:20]
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ben_vulpes i will be off to eat shortly. [01:22]
asciilifeform btw the db patch is not marked with antecedents because it has none (since last release) [01:22]
* cosmo (~cosmo@#64;unaffiliated/cosmo) has left #bitcoin-assets [01:22]
asciilifeform (iirc the 40000 was set prior to it) [01:22]
ben_vulpes of course. [01:23]
* ben_vulpes to food [01:23]
asciilifeform and what's more, this is pretty clear from reading it. [01:23]
asciilifeform but yes, my particular ml posts are geared toward helping the folks i know to be presently involved ( ben_vulpes, mod6, trinque, mircea_popescu, shinohai, punkman, hanbot, who else?) to build. [01:24]
asciilifeform rather than for everyone on the planet. [01:24]
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trinque all I'm grumpy about is having something structured to put the patches in, really, with branching [01:25]
asciilifeform trinque: please put, if it helps you [01:25]
trinque the patches page helps a bit, but for example seeing easily from where various experimental patches derive [01:25]
asciilifeform can even get your favourite version control gizmo to shit out patches [01:25]
asciilifeform (iirc ben_vulpes does this) [01:25]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu your www layout somehow cuts the lines on s.nsa statement [01:27]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:27]
asciilifeform ^ anyone else sees this? [01:27]
asciilifeform (graphical browser) [01:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114645 @#64; 0.00052851 = 60.591 BTC [+] {3} [01:29]
mod6 it does the same for me on multiple browsers too [01:30]
asciilifeform ;;later tell ben_vulpes i have nothing against 'git', 'mercurial', etc., and even sometimes use these in civilian life, there is even somewhere ~horror~ a 'github' page with my name and some old crud, yes. but the ~canonical walk from pedigreed 0.5.3 to therealbitcoin~ has to be in .patch form! [01:30]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:30]
asciilifeform it is the finger pushing in the plug into the hole the night leaks through. [01:31]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah my browser eats too (firefox) [01:32]
* tcrypt has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [01:35]
decimation asciilifeform: are the maps in question contained in your 'mempool zap patch'? [01:35]
asciilifeform decimation: they are the two maps which hold mempool state [01:36]
asciilifeform see the text of the patch. [01:36]
* decimation was seeing [01:37]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << we're not signing because it has 'upside' now. but 1) because unsigned code is 'written by no one' and hence is a work of the great satan by default implication 2) for the archaeologists 3) for the revolutionary tribunals [01:37]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside [01:37]
decimation my point is that it was made clear that anyone who signed something that fucked stuff up would suffer the negrating consequences [01:39]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-07-2015#1200332 [01:39]
assbot Logged on 14-07-2015 03:22:40; asciilifeform: a mistake that is owned up to, before it sinks any ships - can perhaps be accepted as a mistake, and forgiven [01:39]
asciilifeform i sign xxx. the readers are then free to rate me accordingly. this is how is works, by design. [01:40]
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asciilifeform also the continuity of identity. if, for example, my patches at some point go from tiny to elephantine, from single-purpose to 'omnibus', from deadly-simple to 'wtf is that' - folks are to presume that i have been finally killed and key is in hands of hitler. and should then rate accordingly. [01:42]
asciilifeform this, incidentally, is an important reason why patches need to be deedboted [01:42]
asciilifeform (can automate this?) [01:43]
asciilifeform need hard ~dates~ as well as identity. [01:43]
asciilifeform and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc [01:44]
asciilifeform guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness' [01:44]
asciilifeform 'why do i have to move these sandbags?' [01:44]
asciilifeform 'why am i sleeping in a hole in the ground next to hole in the ground where i shat' [01:45]
asciilifeform 'why do i have to stand here and watch the hill' [01:45]
decimation part of the problem with the mailing list I see is that it's difficult to reconstruct the context of patches [01:45]
asciilifeform perhaps mircea_popescu will add to this illustration. [01:45]
asciilifeform decimation: the context is typically filled in, in pedantic detail, here. [01:46]
decimation you usually do a good job of this [01:46]
ben_vulpes oh don't mind me, i'm just grumpy about a frictive process [01:47]
decimation I can't think of an off-the-shelf tool that would do everything mentioned above though [01:47]
asciilifeform the tool that man can trust to replace his brains is not yet born [01:47]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper [01:47]
decimation asciilifeform: yes but you could take that argument to 'can't use computer withou seeing registers' [01:48]
ben_vulpes decimation: and he does, regularly [01:48]
decimation it all depends on what is a reasonable risk to accept [01:48]
asciilifeform once hygiene was invented - not using it was no longer 'reasonable' [01:49]
trinque git's binary db format is certainly *not* capable of being the canonical representation of the project [01:49]
trinque however, these are separate concerns [01:49]
trinque the ML is imo for releases, which should consist of bundles of signed patches [01:49]
decimation it would be nice to have a button to click: download the 'original tree' plus patches to get to this patch [01:49]
trinque dev is its own concern which might have other processes; you could say that a particular feature branch eventually gets flattened down into a release patch [01:49]
decimation for each patch [01:49]
asciilifeform trinque: i happen to think that throwing patches to ml, where they are all visible in chronological order, is a step forward from them living on my www [01:50]
trinque decimation: I was thinking this might be a web app [01:50]
asciilifeform and linked here [01:50]
decimation trinque: a web page with links to whatever deedbot spits would be sufficient [01:50]
trinque asciilifeform: yeah, but the patches are a tree, not a timeline [01:50]
ben_vulpes i am now imagining all sorts of dumb things like patches contributed in ml 'threads' [01:50]
decimation plus automatics to package tarball and patches [01:50]
asciilifeform you lot are reinventing 'version control' gadget [01:50]
ben_vulpes heck, it'd be a huge improvement if /patches.html rendered in chronological order [01:51]
asciilifeform ^ [01:51]
asciilifeform agree [01:51]
asciilifeform (why aren't they?) [01:51]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell jurov pretty please [01:51]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:51]
ben_vulpes dunno, have asked twice now [01:51]
decimation yes, that's step one of 'we gotta invent version control too' [01:51]
* ben_vulpes would learn fossil [01:51]
ben_vulpes don't care, can operate anything made by humans [01:52]
asciilifeform i said before, will say again: if the labour of crunching the patches looms large, it is only because folks are not undergoing the greater torment of reading them [01:52]
ben_vulpes 'tis not the patches but the whole workflow [01:52]
asciilifeform what other than the patches ? [01:52]
ben_vulpes a forest, not any particular tree [01:52]
decimation asciilifeform: for one thing, you would need to see the patch in context [01:53]
decimation which you can't get unless you have the whole repo stepped forward to the state of ap articular patch [01:53]
asciilifeform the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~ [01:53]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: the antecedents thing for one [01:53]
decimation thus, you need the whole repo state per patch [01:53]
decimation I don't see any way around that [01:53]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) [01:53]
decimation yes, this is version control [01:53]
ben_vulpes now is when i admit that i've yet to successfully compile bitcoin with rotor [01:53]
ben_vulpes tendon-snipped by "use your noggin, eedjit" instructions [01:54]
ben_vulpes tripped, fell, yelling in fury [01:54]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: make use of the fact that i am yet alive! post errorz, logs [01:54]
ben_vulpes trinque: was there, saw, comiserated [01:54]
ben_vulpes no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out [01:55]
ben_vulpes CLEARLY [01:55]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'm tuned in for what, 12-14 h/day? write in [01:55]
trinque rock climbing comes to mind [01:56]
trinque sometimes you get a shitty handhold, but you don't immediately shout "fuck this!" and let go of the wall [01:56]
ben_vulpes no, for another read through and another hack at "etc. as before" will resolve this. [01:56]
* trinque the fatty who hasn't exercised in 6mos... talking about rock climbing... [01:57]
ben_vulpes i'll save my "eedjit points" for when i actually cannot resolve things myself. [01:57]
ben_vulpes in the meantime, know that these few hours per day *i* do have might be put to better use than derping of dirs. [01:58]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: don't hesitate to publicly gripe if i omitted a step in cookbook, etc [01:58]
ben_vulpes note that i haven't. [01:58]
decimation asciilifeform: mapTransactions appears to be a std::map to me [01:59]
asciilifeform hm [01:59]
asciilifeform decimation is right [02:00]
decimation maybe I can't distinguish between boost and stl [02:00]
decimation one of the annoyances of c++ is that it is strongly typed and yet devilishly hard to tell *what* type [02:00]
asciilifeform does have the behaviour described earlier, though [02:00]
asciilifeform aha [02:00]
decimation and there is no tool (as far as I know) that automates this task [02:00]
asciilifeform not in the land of sunshine & kittenz, at any rate [02:01]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: my patches are useless if folks can't build them and test [02:01]
decimation folks can, I've done anyway [02:02]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223731 << ahahahahahaha [02:02]
assbot Logged on 04-08-2015 04:03:19; asciilifeform: also ok to use live lusers [02:02]
decimation my stator with eatblocks is almost synced after a month of running [02:02]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes et al: if anyone wants to suggest how to make recipe more digestible, please write. [02:02]
trinque my only problem with rotor was that berkdb is a piece of shit, ignored env vars that every ball o' source should care about without its own magical flag [02:04]
trinque things like that though, that many pieces, sure it's going to snag on machines [02:04]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220389 << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell. [02:04]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 04:37:34; BingoBoingo: was very slow to eat 51, but it did [02:04]
trinque what's needed imo is something which displays the history of *decisions* made, secondarily patches [02:04]
ben_vulpes aha trinque's decisionmachine emerges! [02:05]
trinque wahaha [02:05]
trinque that's what I as a newb trying to wade in wanted to know [02:05]
trinque what's the social structure here, what decisions did it fart out? [02:05]
asciilifeform what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ? [02:05]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts. [02:05]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah it matters what kind of pointers that mapTransactions is accepting [02:05]
trinque asciilifeform: I've read *far* more logs than that [02:05]
decimation asciilifeform: one annoyance about the logs: missing entries [02:06]
asciilifeform so trinque then knows the decisions [02:06]
asciilifeform decimation: this is also why i keep boxes going 24/7, logging [02:06]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: still need instructions, for when script explodes with no explanation [02:06]
asciilifeform there is, sadly, no possible substitute for actually grasping the mechanism [02:07]
asciilifeform if i knew of one - would say what it is, promise. [02:07]
ben_vulpes mine explode at the line that fails instead of airily carrying on as though nothing happened. [02:07]
ben_vulpes helps, somewhat. [02:07]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release [02:08]
asciilifeform (i somehow forgot this feature even existed in sh) [02:08]
decimation the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects [02:09]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1MN6xHr ) [02:09]
decimation calling clear() simply zeros the hashes but does not deallocate the objects [02:09]
asciilifeform aha [02:09]
asciilifeform i explained this earlier [02:09]
decimation one would need to iterate through all of them and call delete [02:09]
asciilifeform except have to iterate cleverly [02:09]
decimation yes, it would be annoying [02:10]
asciilifeform because deleting destroys iterator [02:10]
asciilifeform (forgot this, and relearned the hard way, sat with gdb for a spell) [02:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131950 @#64; 0.00050986 = 67.276 BTC [-] {7} [02:11]
* asciilifeform bbl [02:11]
decimation I wonder if wrapping in auto_ptr would help [02:11]
decimation no, because it still doesn't leave scope [02:11]
ben_vulpes ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release << and this raises another question, shall mod6 and i now switch our build process to involve the rotor assemblage? [02:17]
ben_vulpes shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases? [02:17]
ben_vulpes i have no answers, only this hill to watch. [02:17]
* ben_vulpes to have a brow soothed on a sweet busom [02:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72253 @#64; 0.00052755 = 38.1171 BTC [+] [02:42]
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BingoBoingo I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table << What. People don't die of drink anymoar because it feels good man? [03:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107475 @#64; 0.00053128 = 57.0993 BTC [+] {5} [03:01]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works << Ugliest artifact. MIN_RELAY_TXFEE and MINTXFEE live in main.h and init.h when patched. very volatile line numbers [03:01]
BingoBoingo guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness' << It always has, at least until armor became to weighty for civilized legionaries [03:04]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) << stator, rotor work to build a bitcoind on the "mint" ubuntu-like. Don't remember installing more dev tools after g++ for stator [03:15]
BingoBoingo ... << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell. << I remember more than a minute, but only resorted to spring powered time after already waiting [03:16]
BingoBoingo what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ? << New challenges revert "seasoned" into n00b again [03:17]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts. << And then shell changes [03:18]
BingoBoingo the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects << Far worse in PoundNation 0.9+ where classes [03:19]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1MN6xHr ) [03:19]
BingoBoingo shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases? << Honestly prolly. A recipe that provides ABI compatibility with 2.6.x Linux kernel is prolly fine. People can adapt to other environments. [03:20]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B << #ba-courts [03:32]
deedbot- Bad URL or network outage. [03:32]
assbot dpaste: 10RVK2B ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b0SL ) [03:32]
BingoBoingo trinque ^ [03:32]
trinque nothing's broken; there's other shit on the line [03:32]
trinque also html url [03:32]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B [03:32]
assbot dpaste: 10RVK2B ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b0SL ) [03:32]
BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt [03:33]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b5FX ) [03:33]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt [03:33]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b5FX ) [03:33]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [03:33]
trinque heh ding ding [03:33]
* BingoBoingo may be rather intoxicated [03:33]
BingoBoingo But, #b-a courts [03:33]
trinque ;;later tell felipelalli you've spoken about the idea of rating people not in the WoT; there's a great way ^ [03:35]
gribble The operation succeeded. [03:35]
BingoBoingo Got to get the condemnation in before feeding the lawyer fiat for next month's hearing [03:35]
trinque BingoBoingo: cool [03:35]
BingoBoingo Also if anyone with a bunch of power words (danielpbarron) can identify either on any relevant Bitcoin related WoT I would appreciate a heads up. [03:38]
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BingoBoingo My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability. [03:40]
BingoBoingo I might not remember why in the morning I decided tonight would be the night to file this, but I left myself copious notes. [03:41]
* BingoBoingo used to believe St Cliar County authorities might read this chan, now pretty sure they don't, but figure there is a lack of better public records so their doom if they don't read. [03:42]
* BingoBoingo notes filings issued in venues other than a #b-a deedbot will from now and from twenty years in the past be treated as suggestions rather than orders. [03:45]
punkman http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << the broadcast overflows and gets clipped, have to view source [03:48]
assbot No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4fCuM ) [03:48]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @#64; 0.000532 = 16.5984 BTC [+] [03:52]
BingoBoingo ;;kittenlasers [03:54]
gribble Error: "kittenlasers" is not a valid command. [03:54]
BingoBoingo Seems about as true as ever http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2014#726890 [03:56]
assbot Logged on 21-06-2014 14:11:51; moiety: are you near asciilifeform, punkman? he needs a kitten, he just hasn't fully realised it yet [03:56]
* knotwork_ is now known as knotwork [04:00]
BingoBoingo !up knotwork [04:02]
* assbot gives voice to knotwork [04:02]
BingoBoingo Parody, but should it be? http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/03/ativan-diffuser/ [04:07]
assbot FDA Finally Approves The Ativan Diffuser for all Hospital Units | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGdtQ ) [04:07]
BingoBoingo I mean if http://epmonthly.com/article/you-re-suing-me-for-what/ isn't parody [04:08]
assbot West Virginia Supreme Court Ruling Allows Physician Liability for Patient Addiction - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGj4B ) [04:08]
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punkman BingoBoingo, seems like a good way to stop docs prescribing [04:10]
BingoBoingo !up diametric [04:10]
* assbot gives voice to diametric [04:10]
BingoBoingo !up diana_coman [04:10]
* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [04:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142681 @#64; 0.00053065 = 75.7137 BTC [-] {2} [04:10]
BingoBoingo punkman: Well hopefully they stop prescribing for their old coots threatening their licenses first [04:10]
BingoBoingo Only industry to win is Afghan [04:10]
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* BingoBoingo contemplates migrating to a completely suckless/cat-v desktop. Pros? Any cons? [04:16]
BingoBoingo Well, maybe not entirely. I may keep cwm over dwm [04:21]
BingoBoingo Also, how out of sync is the medical profession with the youth? http://epmonthly.com/article/palca-what/ [04:22]
assbot The Top Ways Palcohol Abuse Could Present to the Emergency Department - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasJfk ) [04:22]
punkman didn't USG ban that? [04:23]
punkman guess not [04:24]
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BingoBoingo punkman: They tabled that motion so not banned. [04:25]
BingoBoingo Also alcohol bound in carbohydrates? Prolly going to be a fat sack to the shit jsut to get buzzed. [04:26]
BingoBoingo !up HeySteve [04:26]
* assbot gives voice to HeySteve [04:26]
HeySteve hi there [04:26]
punkman I remember some discussion about how much the thing would weight [04:26]
BingoBoingo hi HeySteve [04:27]
BingoBoingo punkman: Well consider a pint bottle of cheap vodka is 40% alcohol by volume, roughly the same by mass [04:27]
BingoBoingo And now it gets topped off with sugars that will help it clear stage 2 metabolism faster [04:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93500 @#64; 0.000532 = 49.742 BTC [+] [04:28]
BingoBoingo Still to get a slight buzz one is talking at least an once or more of raw ETOH plus binders. [04:29]
punkman "Mark searched for powdered alcohol and it wasn't available. Over a few years, with the help of scientists around the world, Mark was able to create powdered alcohol.  So he began his quest to create it. After years of research, experimentation and consultation with scientists around the world, he finally came up with powdered alcohol and called it Palcohol." [04:31]
punkman of course it's the first best palchohol [04:31]
BingoBoingo For a 110 pound teenager to reach the poisoning level and hit the ER it would still take hald a poing of the stuff, plus binders. [04:31]
punkman even though patent dates to 1974 [04:31]
BingoBoingo patents are probably all on the binders, probably all borrowed from Eli Lily [04:32]
BingoBoingo Or leased [04:32]
* assbot removes voice from knotwork [04:33]
* BingoBoingo wonders if Byrne/Swanson et al ever wander here and see the hate I spew for far smaller problems and wonder... What if Bingo isn't just an MP sock puppet that emerges under the influence of coke? [04:38]
shinohai You got to stop giving the butters content there BingoBoingo [04:39]
BingoBoingo What if there really are a lot of #b-a people and they really are strong with hate [04:39]
BingoBoingo shinohai: I might have the rare opportunity to interview for a fiat job. If I get it I want a part of this window to get cheap coins. [04:40]
* assbot removes voice from diana_coman [04:40]
shinohai Ah good luck on the job. [04:41]
shinohai I'd like to have easy to buy coins that don't require writing my autobiography to obtain. [04:42]
* BingoBoingo would have to relocate bu plans to get the beapest place that only requires two months rent on top of deposit [04:42]
shinohai What sort of job is it BingoBoingo, may i ask/ [04:43]
BingoBoingo shinohai: Customer service at a regional univeristy. Nothing glamorous, but given how long as it has been since I was last fiat employable. [04:44]
shinohai Don't feel bad, I haven't worked at a fiat job in 6 years now. [04:45]
punkman shinohai: retired? [04:46]
BingoBoingo Shhh, i'm using that line. [04:46]
shinohai Disability pension from an accident. Doc declared me unfit for duty so I'm not complaining. [04:46]
shinohai In the real world I have to use Windows [04:47]
* BingoBoingo entered into deedbot that condemnation for more than just "there exists" a misdemeanor charge [04:47]
shinohai I need a good virtual job, that reddit shit that pays $5 in btc is pointless. [04:49]
BingoBoingo I just hope one day to become. [04:51]
BingoBoingo I've already had the FBI at my front door. I'd just like to become the sort of #b-a dragon who can embrace axe time [04:52]
shinohai You had the FBI? You got more rep than me. I only had FCC come to make me take down my super yagi. [04:53]
shinohai When you are unemployed and bored, naturally you want a wifi antenna capable of covering the whole neighborhood with internet. [04:54]
BingoBoingo Well it was one FBI agent and one Treasury agent. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/25/a-law-enforcement-encounter-if-you-ran-a-bitcoin-related-service-before-the-thing-hit-100-you-prolly-ought-to-be-somewhat-concerned-andor-prepared/ I still have the Treasury agent's card. FBI fucker never offered his. [04:55]
assbot A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2loNL ) [04:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110000 @#64; 0.00052667 = 57.9337 BTC [-] {4} [04:56]
* assbot removes voice from HeySteve [04:57]
BingoBoingo It was hot, I didn't let them in so we had a pow wow on the front lawn until they quit. [04:58]
shinohai > "the FBI agent name dropped Coindesk as a thing he reads...." [04:59]
shinohai AT leas he admits he has a problem. [04:59]
BingoBoingo But this is exactly how to handle an encounter of the Federal kind. You sweat them away and you disclose it happened. [04:59]
BingoBoingo To be fair qntra didn't quite exist yet. [05:00]
BingoBoingo http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Jen-Selter-Instagram-5.jpg [05:00]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2mau4 ) [05:00]
BingoBoingo Rome didn't burn in a day [05:01]
shinohai Musta been a slow crime month, they were looking to invent something. [05:03]
BingoBoingo The exact service they asked me about was the late BTCPak operated by DBordello. All I knew was I used it and it worked. [05:04]
shinohai I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader [05:05]
shinohai I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc. [05:06]
punkman girl's sister was at her parent's house for a night. parents were on vacation, so neighbor hears noise and calls the cops. cops show up banging on the door at 3am, she opens door and there were 3-4 submachineguns pointed at her. [05:08]
punkman I'd sue them [05:08]
shinohai Unfortunately, policing doesn't seem to be a service you can unsubscribe from. [05:09]
shinohai You just get hit with "early termination" fees. ;) [05:09]
BingoBoingo I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader << iirc he made it rahter clear he was shady. BTcPak had a .com site and everything I needed to believe in it at the time. [05:12]
BingoBoingo I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc. << I'd already met alf here. For all they know everything has the thermite. [05:12]
shinohai Yeah it appears he got sloppy or just didn't care. I bought btc from him several times despite the war between him and TradeFortress. [05:13]
BingoBoingo TradeFortress appears in retrospect to have jsut been another parasitic chicom [05:13]
shinohai ^ [05:13]
BingoBoingo But MPT made it way to clear in his adverts that he did "dark web stuff" to address him as a person. That would be like buying a gram of blow from the white boy dressed as a pimp. [05:14]
shinohai I never used inputs.io though. The whole thing of not owning your keys seemed silly to me. [05:14]
BingoBoingo I spent time on his coinshat thing tying to tell n00bs to not be such n00bs. Fat lot of good it did. [05:15]
shinohai A fool and his money ..... [05:16]
BingoBoingo Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally. [05:17]
shinohai He definitely had a way with people. There are peeps to this day that still defend him and inputs. [05:20]
BingoBoingo People really underestimate how long I can keep my hate fresh [05:20]
shinohai Same. I hold grudges for way too long. [05:21]
BingoBoingo I was trying to save precious n00bs on his site, and he fuck it. So I hate. [05:21]
shinohai n00bs generally go for the shiny and loud [05:22]
shinohai Things that require little effort, not realizing your security comes at a price. [05:22]
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shinohai But no: "The app developer *assures us it is safe, so it must be*" [05:23]
BingoBoingo It was an inflection point. I mean back then Eulora was jsut a jizzlet in MP's balls [05:23]
BingoBoingo !up afreakk [05:23]
* assbot gives voice to afreakk [05:23]
BingoBoingo 1up afreakk_Z_Z_ [05:23]
BingoBoingo !up afreakk_Z_Z_ [05:24]
* assbot gives voice to afreakk_Z_Z_ [05:24]
shinohai I had such enthusiasm for Eulora, I may take a fresh look at it when I have good drugs. [05:26]
BingoBoingo It was around then though that I realized that no amount of 1 on 1 coaching directed at unknowns could have the same impact MP had when he declared Max Keiser was a doody head. [05:26]
BingoBoingo I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit. [05:26]
BingoBoingo But first I gotta chop on my bitcoin first [05:27]
BingoBoingo And fuck it [05:27]
BingoBoingo Bed time [05:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 426459 @#64; 0.00053309 = 227.341 BTC [+] {8} [05:27]
shinohai gn m8 [05:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9585 @#64; 0.0005338 = 5.1165 BTC [+] {2} [05:37]
* assbot removes voice from afreakk [05:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67950 @#64; 0.00052422 = 35.6207 BTC [-] {2} [06:00]
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punkman youtube apparently doesn't like songs titled "Cunt Make It Up" [06:25]
punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-gvxxhcS8s [06:27]
assbot Tarantula Deadly Cargo - Sleaford Mods - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OPK2ju ) [06:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93750 @#64; 0.00052422 = 49.1456 BTC [-] [06:33]
punkman http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/athens-1944-britains-dirty-secret lol secret [06:39]
assbot Athens 1944: Britain’s dirty secret | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1W17506 ) [06:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130050 @#64; 0.0005355 = 69.6418 BTC [+] {6} [06:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122250 @#64; 0.00053699 = 65.647 BTC [+] {4} [07:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88700 @#64; 0.0005288 = 46.9046 BTC [-] [07:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @#64; 0.00053995 = 4.7991 BTC [+] [07:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80400 @#64; 0.00053211 = 42.7816 BTC [-] {4} [07:59]
punkman http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/04/news/companies/greek-bank-shares-crash/ heh [08:16]
assbot Uber is worth five times Greece's banks - Aug. 4, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ825s ) [08:16]
jurov http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=1262 kek [08:35]
assbot Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ9R24 ) [08:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @#64; 0.00051947 = 20.0515 BTC [-] {2} [08:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @#64; 0.00051943 = 56.7218 BTC [-] {3} [08:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 336600 @#64; 0.00054208 = 182.4641 BTC [+] {5} [08:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96550 @#64; 0.00054789 = 52.8988 BTC [+] {8} [08:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120750 @#64; 0.00055026 = 66.4439 BTC [+] [09:14]
mircea_popescu !up v_smith [09:15]
-assbot- You voiced v_smith for 30 minutes. [09:15]
* assbot gives voice to v_smith [09:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform shouldn't, in browser that respect "font size=small". [09:15]
mircea_popescu doesn't, in mine, in any case. [09:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @#64; 0.00055026 = 12.1057 BTC [+] [09:21]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225116 << i can see this as pretty legitimate. [09:33]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:10:05; BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from? [09:33]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225121 << in fact few are going to actually test anything even when it is easy to do so. [09:34]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:12:14; ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so. [09:34]
mircea_popescu in short we gotta restructure this pancake castle less it falls over. [09:34]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use. [09:35]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:15; ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments [09:35]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225134 < this is uniquely impractical because a) an actually stared definition of laziness that fails to include most everyone otherwise occupied has yet to be seen and b) you'd better not dare create a system that insults the powerful. [09:37]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:49; trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness" [09:37]
mircea_popescu shit on the powerless, that's what they're there fo. [09:37]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225149 << iirc that was gitHUB [09:38]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:01; ben_vulpes: all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators" [09:38]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << this proposition is false. similarly, going to the market has "all downside and no upside" for goers : they know for a fact they'll spend money. and who knows if the stuff they get will be any good, won't spoil en route, won't get stolen before they get home or for that matter won't sprout heads and tentacles and eat them. so let's "safely" aka stupidly round th [09:41]
mircea_popescu e first to 1 and the 2nd to 0, and then go 1 = 0 har har. [09:41]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside [09:41]
mircea_popescu not how it works. it has A LOT of upside and virtually no downside. what ELSE are you going to do with that "money" if you don't go to the market ? and what ELSE are you going to do with that certain time and alleged expertise if not sign this stuff ? [09:41]
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mircea_popescu there is NOTHING else. anything where you spend your time for any other purpose is either a) masturbation, ie, the xtian "building castles on sand". whether you spend time with your kid or groom your beard or fuck the woman, it's all sensata. or else b) uranium mines. [09:42]
mircea_popescu the only kingdom of heaven accessible to earthlinks is fucking reading and signing patches. don't want it, fine, but don't get fucking existential on me on your deathbed about how you wasted your life. yes, you have. shoulda not have. [09:43]
* assbot removes voice from v_smith [09:45]
shinohai ;;ticker [09:53]
gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 282.95, Best ask: 282.98, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 282.95, 24 hour volume: 8721.96406275, 24 hour low: 281.49, 24 hour high: 285.94, 24 hour vwap: None [09:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93999 @#64; 0.00051937 = 48.8203 BTC [-] {2} [09:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @#64; 0.00051937 = 38.1218 BTC [-] [10:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69100 @#64; 0.00052279 = 36.1248 BTC [+] {3} [10:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43811 @#64; 0.00051885 = 22.7313 BTC [-] {5} [10:33]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225197 << honestly thinking about it i dun see any way to avoid involving deeds in here. [10:35]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:43:53; asciilifeform: need hard ~dates~ as well as identity. [10:35]
mircea_popescu i suspect we might be belabouring under the burdens imposed by a design problem which ultimately stems from conceptual confusion. [10:36]
mircea_popescu there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible. [10:37]
mircea_popescu one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard". [10:37]
mircea_popescu the other is MANAGE. specifically - hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question. [10:38]
mircea_popescu i am perfectly aware that a fine answer to both these is "just grow a beard", which is to say, "know", knight style, just "what is going on" so that you can reboot the machine into a working state. and "know", mp style, just whop the moles are. [10:39]
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mircea_popescu this is not practicable, if for no other reason then because the very earth will end up growing a beard and that'll be bad for the climate. [10:40]
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mircea_popescu but in point of fact, approaching the matter conversely, a straight github repository would be just fine from the M perspective if it were doubled by duly deedbotted hashes of the plaintext. and on the other hand, irrespectively how inscrutable -r content would be just fine from a U perspective, just as long as someone can somehow convert it into a plaintext they can sit down with, follow, and never be surprised. [10:43]
mircea_popescu and returning to the issue, the good quality recipes are exactly equivalent to the "wot of patches" management technique : they allow people to ride on the shoulders of giants ~of their own choice~. [10:45]
mircea_popescu this "choose your own giant" system is definitely powerful enough to take over the world, but we still gotta figure out a way to allow such seating. [10:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @#64; 0.00052304 = 18.0972 BTC [+] [10:45]
mircea_popescu and both sides gotta be done at the same time. [10:46]
mircea_popescu this is ultimately why foss failed. yes, it did (sort of, but originally much better than currently) allow the U seating part. [10:46]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, because it failed to even conceptualize the M part, let alone address it, it remained open to attack which the us first probed (with its corporate tentacles, ms etc) and then crushed, with its agency teeth. [10:47]
mircea_popescu the reason this was possible is fortunately very easy to fix, once we understood what the hole was. [10:47]
mircea_popescu but in any case, a purely M wot will eventually fail, no matter how effectual or powerful it is (and it is, ftr, factually) on the financial side [10:48]
mircea_popescu which is why they're probing the U side atm. [10:48]
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asciilifeform wai wat [10:52]
mircea_popescu from which leaf ? [10:52]
asciilifeform last [10:52]
mircea_popescu what do you think all this "software for the people" kick is ? [10:52]
mircea_popescu actual, bona fide love of the multitudes ? [10:53]
asciilifeform ah, that [10:53]
mircea_popescu stalin despised the peasant, and the usg despises the scum we despise, equally if not moreso. [10:53]
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mircea_popescu but just as the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee of future success. that we readily crushed the "omai, bigger blocks" initiative, like all "initiatives" to date does not offer any guarantee we'll manage next time. [10:54]
mircea_popescu the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking. [10:54]
asciilifeform what can i say, go get more of me somewhere [10:55]
mircea_popescu mno. this is a tooling problem. [10:55]
mircea_popescu when you have a phd assembly line, the problem is not "insufficient phds" [10:55]
asciilifeform i just don't see it, really [10:56]
mircea_popescu which part ? [10:56]
asciilifeform plenty of folks who aren't the least 'phd' have built, and are running, the thing [10:56]
asciilifeform with griping, sweating, q&a, yes - but running. [10:56]
mircea_popescu how is this an argument and what does it argue for ? [10:57]
asciilifeform that the existing process is precisely correct [10:57]
mircea_popescu correctness is not in dispute. [10:57]
mircea_popescu correct it clearly is. [10:57]
mircea_popescu it's not effectual and won't scale is the dispute. [10:57]
asciilifeform what precisely means 'scale' ? [10:58]
asciilifeform in this context [10:58]
mircea_popescu hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces < [10:58]
asciilifeform iirc she did [10:58]
mircea_popescu and hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question., inseparable. [10:58]
mircea_popescu she eventually got a stator up ? [10:58]
mircea_popescu where do i ping it [10:59]
* asciilifeform searches log [10:59]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell hanbot so is the node up ? where ? is there a recipe-from-own-eyes somewhere ? where ? [10:59]
gribble The operation succeeded. [10:59]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-07-2015#1219909 << apparently not [10:59]
assbot Logged on 31-07-2015 21:50:52; hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez: http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build. [10:59]
mircea_popescu "still working" is not "she did" [10:59]
mircea_popescu in fact, "still working" a week later is its own precious sort of failure, srsly. [11:00]
mircea_popescu there's no reason for this to take a week to do. [11:00]
asciilifeform i did offer to help. what do i have to do, get on a plane with chalkboard in bag ? [11:00]
mircea_popescu no. [11:00]
mircea_popescu why do you think it's about you anyway ? [11:00]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes sorta implied this [11:00]
mircea_popescu what does he know. [11:00]
asciilifeform but would like to think that it isn't, aha [11:00]
mircea_popescu anyway. the idea here is specifically that we want you to be in a position where the plane and chalkboard perspective doesn't loom. [11:01]
asciilifeform aha [11:01]
* asciilifeform would like this very much [11:01]
mircea_popescu right. [11:01]
chetty go to meeting? [11:01]
asciilifeform l0l [11:01]
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asciilifeform (in unrelated newz, dulap is getting blackholed again) [11:02]
mircea_popescu so basically, help me out here. this should be a website which maintains a code tree and a signature tree ? [11:02]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes has one [11:02]
mircea_popescu can we just design the thing, if for no other reason then for the exercise, and then see what already exists and if we like it ? [11:02]
asciilifeform i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that anything that can't come out of a printer and then ocr'd back in could be the canonical representation of the path from pedigreed 0.5.3 to us [11:03]
mircea_popescu ok, gefuxexperiment. suppose you get hit in the head, and go into a coma. [11:03]
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mircea_popescu suppose you come back in 2025. suppose we've been living and thriving though this time. [11:04]
mircea_popescu you go to the ML, and lo, there's 1`677`321 messages in there. [11:04]
mircea_popescu how do you proceed ? [11:04]
asciilifeform i'd read them. [11:04]
mircea_popescu suppose you can't read at the pace new ones get added. [11:04]
asciilifeform sorta doing this with the linux kernel, actually [11:04]
mircea_popescu there's 75`000 contributors in 2025 alone. [11:05]
asciilifeform aaaaand this is when i decide that the thing has brain cancer. [11:05]
asciilifeform like linux ! [11:05]
mircea_popescu why ? [11:05]
asciilifeform it is ~The~ test. [11:05]
asciilifeform software is not that intrinsically complicated. [11:05]
mircea_popescu looky here : i am a magical witch doctor that can spot where cancer starts. [11:05]
mircea_popescu care to hear where it started ? [11:05]
asciilifeform nothing needs 1`677`321 changes to go to zero kelvin !! [11:05]
asciilifeform aha? [11:05]
mircea_popescu i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that < [11:05]
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asciilifeform and i say that no work of man needs 1`677`321 changes. [11:06]
mircea_popescu depends how it's designed. [11:06]
asciilifeform or 677`321 for that matter. [11:06]
asciilifeform in fact 7`321 is pushing it [11:07]
mircea_popescu reproduction is the work of man, and reproduction has TO DATE taken over 2 million strokes. today. [11:07]
mircea_popescu will take more. [11:07]
asciilifeform nah it's the work of 'aunt dumb' [11:07]
mircea_popescu if you design your thing like reproduction works, do not be surprised. [11:07]
mircea_popescu narciflattering but untrue. [11:07]
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mircea_popescu anyway, to get back to it : in ordere to ever reach 0 kelvin, you must use at least some elements that provably reduce temperature. [11:08]
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asciilifeform this'd be the snip-snips. [11:09]
mircea_popescu ideally. [11:10]
mircea_popescu they need to be supported, is what im telling you. [11:10]
mircea_popescu atm we're veering dangerously close to the old -dev process, where they just shat magic stones. [11:10]
asciilifeform so let's have idea ? [11:10]
mircea_popescu let's have idea! [11:10]
asciilifeform does mircea_popescu presently have ? [11:11]
mircea_popescu how would this b-a versioning system work ? [11:11]
mircea_popescu i do not, no. [11:11]
mircea_popescu i don't even fully understand wtf hole we're filing. tho i think i understand a lot better right now than 3 hours ago. [11:11]
asciilifeform i will add that a while ago i pictured myself in the predicament of folks trying to assemble the thing. which is why i included an unofficial flattened source with 'stator' [11:11]
mircea_popescu aha. [11:11]
mircea_popescu no, if you look at the history with open eyes it's quite clear we had this problem on back for a while now. [11:12]
mircea_popescu i swear this is a problem that's structural and should be solved, rather than just pushed against. [11:12]
jurov structural? ohmy mircea's going to ban something :D [11:13]
mircea_popescu lolwut [11:13]
asciilifeform it is a problem. but i must point out that most of the troubles folks have spoken of so far do not stem from it. e.g., trinque et al with their misbehaving systems. [11:13]
jurov but srs, i have asked for patches context, was sent to go scour the log for it [11:14]
punkman context? [11:14]
asciilifeform jurov: link? [11:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i bet you dollars to anything that the reason you don't get deluged in that is simply that moist folks are too interdicted by the task to even attempt, soi we don't hear about 99% of compat issues [11:14]
mircea_popescu jurov so you have. [11:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: entirely possible [11:14]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000100.html << example of one of my patches listing antecedents [11:15]
assbot [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke! ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYWpv ) [11:15]
jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178271 [11:15]
assbot Logged on 26-06-2015 21:23:15; jurov: ok ascii_field not turd , but this leaves things to be desired, too: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html [11:15]
mircea_popescu and the last we heard of davout he was told exactly the same, and for all i know he's fallen in there never to be heard from again [11:15]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1221213 << seems like he is there [11:16]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 18:51:53; davout: second kid arrived, private pilot license in progress 70% pretty much sums it up :-) [11:16]
mircea_popescu lemme state apropos of nothing that if you blame people for process not only are you an incredibly bad manager, but your organisation will fail, and in so doing give everyone a sigh of relief. [11:17]
asciilifeform won't blame people, but will say that the state of the ecosystem (i.e. what folks are building on) is in such a sad state that the only plausible solution is os standardization [11:19]
mircea_popescu question : what if we ran this to look more like a wiki than a mailing list ? [11:19]
asciilifeform something i've been loathe to suggest because guess to whom the chore will fall [11:19]
mircea_popescu ie, all things we do have a "current page" [11:19]
mircea_popescu which lists everything [11:19]
asciilifeform that'd be very spiffy [11:19]
mircea_popescu changes, in the history tree - all signed. [11:19]
asciilifeform esp. if it can be limited to the wot set [11:19]
mircea_popescu can't see why not. [11:19]
mircea_popescu and that page can get sub-pages [11:20]
asciilifeform well, one reason why possibly not is that i suspect that the ml is as quiet as it is because signing things is arduous [11:20]
mircea_popescu for testing, for corner cases, for whatever the shit. [11:20]
* punkman just realizes he forgot to post working debug_sanity revision [11:20]
mircea_popescu jurov what do you think about switching to mediawiki ? [11:21]
punkman poor jurov :/ [11:21]
mircea_popescu not the doing. the notion. [11:21]
asciilifeform wiki is a neat idea, but someone will have to invent signed-edits-wiki [11:22]
mircea_popescu last i heard it was os php [11:22]
punkman dokuwiki is a better candidate [11:22]
mircea_popescu is it ? [11:22]
punkman much smaller [11:22]
* mircea_popescu knows nothing about these. [11:22]
punkman kako uses it on bitcoin-assets wiki as well [11:22]
mircea_popescu aha [11:23]
jurov i use dokuwiki for some stuff, too. and it can be authed only once per seesion like assbot [11:24]
asciilifeform auth is easy, but how about verify ? [11:24]
mircea_popescu in practice, it'd prolly be more practical to transition deedbot and its site to this job i think [11:24]
mircea_popescu than the ml [11:24]
asciilifeform as in, can i download whole thing and attribute every delta to a wot person ? [11:24]
jurov i see it as minor change. majur obstacle is how to sanely track stuff who released, who signed [11:24]
jurov mere switch to wiki won't solve it [11:25]
mircea_popescu jurov what if the only way to add an edit is "deedbot pastebin/soandso" ? [11:25]
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punkman with some metadata in diff files, we could have a script that creates a branched git repo entirely out of signed patch files [11:25]
mircea_popescu ^ [11:25]
mircea_popescu this is where im headed. have the syntax as a burden ON THE WRITER [11:25]
mircea_popescu not on the fucken reader. prolly 2/3 of our problem as is [11:25]
mircea_popescu so : you wanna contribute, use this and that markup, then rest is done by itself. [11:26]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers [11:26]
mircea_popescu (reason is that stuff's written once, read many times) [11:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl http://trilema.com/autobitcoin.sh | gpg -verify > autobitcoin.sh. and then run that autobitcoin.sh, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them [11:27]
assbot Page not found on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DtYhd5 ) [11:27]
mircea_popescu and the only time i hear of any peep from the entire shebang is when one of them has gone over and i need to come in here and start with the !rate -10 [11:28]
mircea_popescu and i know this can be done because it's how fucking viruses work. [11:29]
asciilifeform the only way to guarantee that the selected set of authors adds up to a single nonconflicting merge is to only build official releases (that is, tree signed by mod6 & ben_vulpes) [11:30]
mircea_popescu sure. [11:30]
asciilifeform again with the meat models. in point of fact most viruses ~don't work~ [11:30]
mircea_popescu gimme the mechanics, lemme worry about the people. [11:30]
mircea_popescu of course in point of fact most viruses don't work. [11:30]
mircea_popescu yet most people to date have been killed by viruses. [11:30]
mircea_popescu gimme the mechanics! [11:30]
asciilifeform as i understand, any mechanized thing really depends on patches stating their antecedents [11:31]
jurov is adding "applies-to" a problem? [11:32]
asciilifeform thinking of a modified unix-patch util that stuffs sha512 into comment preceding each file diff [11:32]
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asciilifeform from patches like these, one could conceivably auto-build a dependency graph [11:33]
mircea_popescu jurov i dun see why it would be [11:33]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually a hashed diff / patch-util is a must irrerspective of anything else. [11:34]
asciilifeform i'm about to post an example [11:34]
mircea_popescu i have nfi how come it doesn't exist. must be a switch [11:34]
jurov i get it [11:34]
jurov though, with this in-band signalling we will limit ourselves to patch format [11:36]
mircea_popescu as opposed to what ? [11:37]
jurov there may be ned to publish other signed artifacts [11:37]
* mircea_popescu likes, perhaps irrationally, the patch format [11:37]
jurov like chicken.tar.gz was [11:37]
mircea_popescu i didn't care for that. [11:37]
asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/0MWBGJ1 << original [11:37]
assbot dpaste: 0MWBGJ1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpniDc ) [11:37]
asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/04XFDSF << augmented [11:37]
assbot dpaste: 04XFDSF ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ipnja8 ) [11:37]
mircea_popescu in fact, if you ask diana_coman, she recently delivered a bot for eulora client, and i had her make me diffs. [11:37]
asciilifeform jurov: 'chicken' was a dire, necessary evil [11:37]
mircea_popescu i dunno how you folks understand code otherwise, might be that i'm rusty or inept, but anyway. [11:38]
asciilifeform because the alternative was a multi-megabyte pile of minus signs [11:38]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform not even sure the pile was worse. [11:38]
jurov diana_coman: you actually tried to apply the diffs? [11:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12165 @#64; 0.00052304 = 6.3628 BTC [+] [11:38]
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mircea_popescu ~I~ applied the diffs. [11:38]
mircea_popescu with her there holding my hand [11:38]
mircea_popescu took an hour. [11:38]
mircea_popescu and yes, i applied, by hand, compiled, etc. [11:39]
* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [11:39]
jurov yes. far cry from just running some .sh [11:39]
diana_coman yes jurov, I did verify it, applied it etc [11:40]
mircea_popescu jurov sure. [11:40]
asciilifeform see the dpastes [11:40]
asciilifeform imho this would correct a fundamental flaw in the whole diff thing [11:40]
diana_coman it took me half an hour only, but yeah, I did not have to re-read the code or anything [11:40]
asciilifeform in that, having a bag of patches in hand, you could magically coalesce them into a dependency graph [11:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how do they handle the "armored"/asciifucks issue ? [11:40]
jurov by running gpg --decrypt on clearsigned text [11:41]
asciilifeform afaik this was never an issue with patches (they were attached as binaries) [11:41]
jurov no other way [11:41]
asciilifeform and detach-signed [11:41]
asciilifeform same as a tarball would be [11:41]
asciilifeform it was an issue with message text on ml [11:41]
asciilifeform hence the 'never, ever include a patch in message text' thing. [11:41]
mircea_popescu kk [11:42]
jurov i like it. to be able to remove files without dumping whole contents, patch should be patched, too [11:42]
mircea_popescu ^ [11:43]
asciilifeform i will add, if it isn't obvious, that patches like the one i suggested will apply on a standard unix patch util [11:43]
asciilifeform jurov: it was not a thing before, because there was no way to guarantee that the contents are what the patch author thought they were [11:43]
asciilifeform but now - can. [11:43]
asciilifeform and thereby can safely snip a file after stating its checksum [11:43]
asciilifeform but now both sides of the patch (author and applier) will need the custom util. [11:44]
mircea_popescu this all makes me feel a lot better about my life expectancy. [11:44]
asciilifeform now, the above is not a magic pill! somebody will still need to write the graph traverser [11:44]
mircea_popescu yes. [11:44]
asciilifeform but it is a necessary start. [11:44]
mircea_popescu and the documentation. [11:44]
mircea_popescu yes. [11:45]
mircea_popescu also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet. [11:45]
asciilifeform curious what ben_vulpes, for instance, might add [11:45]
asciilifeform incidentally it is not necessary to alter the unix patch util. the checksums can be added by a proggy which eats standard patch file and the 'before' tree, and shits - this [11:46]
asciilifeform prolly 3 lines of perl [11:46]
shinohai My node isn't connected to anyone again today *sigh* [11:47]
mircea_popescu !rate diana_coman 4 Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder. [11:47]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1c7400936902f591 [11:47]
asciilifeform shinohai: blackholed ? [11:47]
asciilifeform i.e., [11:47]
asciilifeform accepted connection 104.236.95.174:49539 [11:47]
asciilifeform accepted connection 178.18.90.41:42497 [11:47]
asciilifeform socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0 [11:47]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 62.210.127.113:34814 [11:47]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.diana_coman.4:f03c096e55ea00704ee7e685df39127f5c24a5bfc36808528b00217764e046d2 [11:47]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 4 with note: Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder. [11:47]
asciilifeform shinohai: this is a persistent problem, and i have every reason to expect that it will get worse. [11:48]
shinohai T_T [11:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph [11:48]
mircea_popescu shinohai please run this : cat debug.log | grep -c "no message in first 60" and report result [11:49]
shinohai Also getting 11db cannot allocate memory errors [11:49]
* asciilifeform marvelling that no one, apparently, ever noticed the glaring omission in 'patch' [11:49]
shinohai kk 1 sec [11:49]
shinohai returns 0 xD [11:50]
mircea_popescu then it's not that. prolly gotta pursue the memory issue. [11:50]
shinohai Watching tail though I see exactly what asciilifeform describes [11:52]
mircea_popescu ... what gives ? [11:53]
shinohai Where it attempts to connect but disconnects (no message in first 60 sec) [11:54]
mircea_popescu then why is grep returning 0. one or the other neh ? [11:54]
shinohai Could be I just started this one, the one I am already running returns 28670932 [11:56]
mircea_popescu o.O [11:56]
mircea_popescu advertised ip ? [11:56]
shinohai The one I just started has advertised ip [11:57]
mircea_popescu but the other one no ? [11:57]
mircea_popescu well... the network is pretty noisy. [11:57]
shinohai nope [11:57]
shinohai I can see 8333 from ny1.hashbang.sh tho [11:58]
* asciilifeform bbl [12:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70143 @#64; 0.00054298 = 38.0862 BTC [+] {4} [12:01]
trinque mircea_popescu | asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph << I'm in; seems like yet another static site generator job [12:01]
mircea_popescu mostly, yes. [12:02]
trinque and I can modify deedbot- however it helps; he already statically generates his site, perhaps he could interpret metadata in certain deeds and take action [12:02]
mircea_popescu the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make. [12:03]
mircea_popescu this readily enforces the two restraings we want enforced, which is : a) wot restricted and b) signed permanently. [12:03]
shinohai asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: this is what I get http://dpaste.com/1889469 [12:03]
assbot dpaste: 1889469 ... ( http://bit.ly/1gKcYyN ) [12:03]
mircea_popescu shinohai this is "normal" [12:03]
mircea_popescu in the sense of retarded but commonly seen [12:03]
jurov mircea_popescu: deedbot has currently even less friendly archives than mailman [12:04]
shinohai But not connecting to anyone at all isn't [12:04]
mircea_popescu hm. [12:04]
mircea_popescu jurov i wasn't proposing they be used as is. [12:04]
jurov email was chosed because it allows for structured text + attachments. not sure how to do it with deedbot [12:06]
trinque to date I've tried to keep it simple, hence the deeds are plain textfiles linked to by a single index [12:06]
trinque no reason I can't add some html nav around that a la dpaste [12:06]
mircea_popescu bears more thinking [12:06]
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jurov yes the signed email + extra signed attachs is a kludge [12:07]
jurov there must be better system to put together few files + text that already has crypto or can be extended easily [12:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49485 @#64; 0.00053671 = 26.5591 BTC [-] [12:11]
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trinque the way git handles this is that "everything's a Blob" then "some Blobs are a Tree which points to n Blobs which may be Trees or Blobs" [12:11]
trinque you could implement the data structures needed for VCS atop deedbot in a similar manner [12:12]
trinque one thing that would be needed on my end is a saner URL for a given deed; it needs to just be the hash [12:12]
trinque easily done [12:12]
jurov how would it look for user? got a .txt, a .patch , now what? [12:13]
trinque so, git does it this way: there are Blobs, which are a k/v pair of which the k is the hash of the v; blobs can be one of: Reference, Commit, Tree, Blob [12:15]
jurov (currently on has to clearsign the .txt, make detached armored sig for .patch and use non-braindamaged email client to put them together) [12:15]
jurov i am not a git [12:16]
jurov :D [12:16]
trinque I probably missed one, and they also divide into further classifications, ref for example can be a tag, branch, stash [12:16]
trinque hehe [12:16]
mircea_popescu jurov word. there must be. [12:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125000 @#64; 0.00053491 = 66.8638 BTC [-] {3} [12:18]
trinque so if you say did the structured data in the "blobs" as sexps you could sign that text easily [12:18]
trinque and then maybe deedbot farts out additional nav controls on the html versions of these interesting deeds with a particular sexp in them [12:19]
trinque anyhow one thought. [12:19]
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punkman drowning in rube goldberg? [12:20]
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trinque implementing a VCS isn't rocket science; it's just a matter of getting the abstractions right [12:23]
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punkman I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS. [12:24]
trinque sure, and that's another thought [12:25]
trinque wrap git or mercurial or something in hooks which enforce the constraints desired [12:26]
trinque the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons [12:27]
* Adlai mumbles something about darcs [12:29]
trinque Adlai: it does that? [12:29]
trinque I mean they all can, but well? [12:29]
Adlai ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc [12:30]
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trinque sounds worth investigating [12:32]
* trinque wanders off for coffee [12:33]
punkman http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-05/china-to-set-up-security-offices-inside-internet-companies [12:42]
assbot China to Set Up ‘Security Offices’ Inside Internet Companies - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpuQpx ) [12:42]
punkman I imagine they already have people in those companies, why make it official? [12:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47950 @#64; 0.00054691 = 26.2243 BTC [+] [13:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @#64; 0.00054189 = 23.518 BTC [-] [13:24]
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ben_vulpes ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc << how so? i've never touched darcs, the question comes from ignorance. [13:29]
Adlai git signs blobs, darcs signs patches [13:29]
ben_vulpes git produces patches tho-- [13:29]
ben_vulpes oh [13:29]
ben_vulpes interdasting [13:30]
* ben_vulpes is not terrifically familiar with the git gpg integration [13:30]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225499 << i know, apologies all around [13:30]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 12:35:39; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use. [13:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @#64; 0.00052804 = 57.926 BTC [-] {5} [13:32]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: my coracle's been wedged at 367850 since last night, even with the new db locks config. last 500 lines of debug.log: http://dpaste.com/1XB21DH.txt , please let me know if more would be useful [13:38]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuoN65 ) [13:38]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_field [14:14]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [14:14]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225805 << this is what i refer to as 'blackholed' [14:14]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 15:04:31; shinohai: But not connecting to anyone at all isn't [14:14]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225798 << how do i embed ~unmutilatable~ binaries in deedbot? uuencode ?!!! [14:15]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 15:03:16; mircea_popescu: the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make. [14:15]
ascii_field if someone was wondering how the system could ever be made ~less~ n00b-friendly - this'd be it.. [14:15]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225833 << can do this now! [14:17]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 15:24:59; punkman: I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS. [14:17]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski You should see it when the DDoS abates [14:17]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:17]
punkman ascii_field, I'm doing it [14:17]
punkman but I'm guessing as to patch order, branches, etc [14:18]
ben_vulpes http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-03/for-his-next-trick-barefoot-genius-aims-to-end-broker-rip-offs [14:25]
assbot For His Next Trick, Barefoot Genius Aims to End Broker Rip-Offs - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQRv1Q ) [14:25]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: the debug.log fragment you pasted does not reveal the cause of your jam [14:27]
ben_vulpes i was hoping you'd contradict my own conclusions, but alas. [14:28]
danielpbarron 500 lines isn't enough [14:28]
ben_vulpes let me restart the thing and grab the whole bootup log for inspection [14:30]
BingoBoingo https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009920.html << lol [14:32]
assbot [bitcoin-dev] "A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit"--new research paper suggests ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQSsXP ) [14:32]
danielpbarron BingoBoingo, I don't recognize those names you mentioned earlier [14:33]
BingoBoingo It's for the best [14:33]
BingoBoingo non-people [14:33]
ascii_field philippinos, snore. [14:34]
punkman a question that future patch submitters might have: should I patch against last release or most active branch? [14:36]
ascii_field punkman: depends on who you think is 'longest chain' [14:37]
ascii_field if wrong about this, will have to merge by hand, and there is no going around this [14:37]
jurov if a big problem, you can always rebase and rerelease [14:38]
ben_vulpes what was the rollover patch called? [14:39]
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punkman rollover? [14:41]
punkman http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000144.html this won't truncate your debug.log unless you tell it to [14:42]
assbot [BTC-dev] fixed debug_sanity ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQU7N8 ) [14:42]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [14:44]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform http://cascadianhacker.com/wedged.log [14:45]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQUQ0S ) [14:45]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [14:46]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [14:46]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: .txt plz [14:46]
ascii_field (or www browser barfs) [14:46]
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ben_vulpes haw [14:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94900 @#64; 0.00054409 = 51.6341 BTC [+] {3} [14:49]
ben_vulpes Bitcoin version 0.5.4-beta [14:50]
ben_vulpes Default data directory /home/ec2-user/.bitcoin [14:50]
ben_vulpes Loading addresses... [14:50]
ben_vulpes dbenv.open strLogDir=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/db.log [14:50]
ben_vulpes Loaded 39823 addresses [14:50]
ben_vulpes addresses 26456ms [14:50]
ben_vulpes Loading block index... [14:50]
ben_vulpes LoadBlockIndex(): hashBestChain=00000000000000000dfc height=367850 [14:50]
ben_vulpes block index 63562ms [14:50]
ben_vulpes Loading wallet... [14:50]
ben_vulpes nFileVersion = 50400 [14:50]
ben_vulpes fGenerateBitcoins = 0 [14:50]
ben_vulpes nTransactionFee = 0 [14:50]
ben_vulpes fMinimizeToTray = 0 [14:50]
punkman why do you have 40k addresses? [14:50]
ben_vulpes fMinimizeOnClose = 0 [14:50]
ben_vulpes fUseProxy = 0 [14:50]
ben_vulpes addrProxy = 127.0.0.1:9050 [14:50]
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danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225757 << i like the deedbot idea; that is submit patches as deeds. The mailing list has stuff i need to decrypt/verify anyway, and I'm not a big fan of email in general [14:51]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 14:45:46; mircea_popescu: also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet. [14:51]
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ben_vulpes meep. sorry. [14:52]
danielpbarron I also like the idea of a webpage (maybe a wiki) that organizes it all, linking to the deeded content of course [14:52]
ben_vulpes punkman: hell if i know [14:53]
punkman a standalone Ada wallet would be an interesting project [14:53]
ascii_field punkman: perhaps if you ask mircea_popescu nicely, he'll give you a copy [14:54]
punkman I grabbed a random Ada book last week, it was awful. need to look again [14:54]
gernika punkman - I have the Ada 95 reference manual. Seems thorough. Also you can print out a copy of the GNAT User's Guide at Kinkos - which I've also done. Haven't actually made any progress in reading it but... Seems good by looking at TOC. [14:59]
mod6 ;;later tell hanbot ping me when you get a chance plz. thx! [15:00]
gribble The operation succeeded. [15:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66900 @#64; 0.00054662 = 36.5689 BTC [+] [15:03]
punkman gernika, my beard being short, I'm looking for something closer to "Ada for dummies" [15:03]
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punkman I'm also tempted to go with Ada 2005 so I can have all teh unicodez [15:04]
ascii_field 'Ada for software engineers', M. Ben-Ari. [15:05]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: has warez? [15:05]
ascii_field 'Data structures with Ada.', Michael B. Feldman. [15:05]
ascii_field 'Ada for programmers.', Eric W. Olsen. [15:06]
ascii_field 'Ada 95: The Lovelace Tutorial.' David A. Wheeler << probably the most n00bish [15:07]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: nope, i haven't digitized copies of these. but doesn't hurt to look around [15:07]
ascii_field anyone seriously into the subject will also want the 'standard' and 'rationale' documents. [15:08]
punkman http://kto.web.elte.hu/oktatas/ada/books/ase.pdf 'Ada for software engineers' [15:08]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQYHuR ) [15:08]
ascii_field neato [15:09]
ascii_field actually, the best book i have so far is in ru [15:09]
ascii_field written by, of all people, fella claiming to be former lead programmer of ukraine central bank... [15:09]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_field [15:17]
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punkman "Like any contract, the Ada Referebce Manual is written in very precise language, and the term ‘language lawyer’ is often used for people who are experts at interpreting the document." [15:22]
ascii_field it has chapter, verse, line numbers [15:22]
ascii_field like talmud. [15:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41613 @#64; 0.00053474 = 22.2521 BTC [-] [15:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83950 @#64; 0.00054068 = 45.3901 BTC [+] [15:48]
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mod6 so I've looked at deedbot.org [15:53]
mod6 and I like the site, and the bitchin motif [15:53]
mod6 i also like how it lines up the signatures to a specific hash horizontally [15:53]
shinohai deedbot.org rules [15:53]
mod6 however [15:53]
mod6 if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work: [15:54]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000136.html [15:54]
assbot [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp ) [15:54]
mod6 now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work. [15:55]
trinque mod6: heh I did the site with a nod to the foundation's [15:55]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [15:55]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [15:55]
trinque mod6: as for how deedbot- might be used, not clearly defined yet [15:55]
mod6 trinque: i think it's awesome :] [15:55]
ascii_field clearsigning MUTILATES [15:55]
trinque just one spitball of many [15:55]
mod6 ^ [15:55]
mod6 ascii_field has it [15:55]
trinque does it have to be clear? [15:55]
ascii_field for deedbot! [15:55]
trinque I could change the thing [15:55]
mod6 will deedbot take 2 parameters, a non-signed .patch file and a detached signature and somehow colese them? [15:56]
ascii_field who thought this was a good idea, and why [15:56]
trinque thought gpg could wad a sig and a file together in other ways than clearsign [15:56]
ascii_field even worse, imho, in every respect, than ml [15:56]
punkman you can also --armor --sign instead of clearsign [15:56]
mod6 ascii_field: im simply referring to the converstaion from this morning [15:56]
ascii_field deedbot as adjunct to ml - works [15:56]
trinque I gotta depart to a meeting, but to summarize I have no strong opinion that deedbot is the solution [15:56]
ascii_field but as replacement?! [15:56]
trinque was merely saying I am willing to put in the work *should* deedbot- be some part of it [15:57]
ben_vulpes we're just exploring the possibility space here [15:57]
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ben_vulpes !up n6 [15:57]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108450 @#64; 0.00053321 = 57.8266 BTC [-] {3} [15:58]
danielpbarron can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ? [15:58]
mod6 i've been thinking alot about the ML issues that have been brought up lately. and lastnight I bascially came up with: Mailing list A: for all submissions testing or experimental or otherwise.. Mailing list B: for accepted, signed and released patches, in order. And jurov's /patch.html (or w/e its called) should draw from there. [15:58]
trinque danielpbarron: punkman has it; --armor --sign [15:58]
mod6 danielpbarron: we're not talking about encryed docs [15:58]
trinque and then yeah decrypt on the other end [15:58]
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trinque danielpbarron: yeah but you can do a sig in similar fashion [15:58]
trinque where it's a wad o... what, base64? [15:58]
trinque I don't remember [15:58]
trinque er last was for mod6 [15:58]
* trinque departs! [15:58]
n6 thanks ben_vulpes, can anyone help me make a call file for http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-07-2015#1202737 ? never made one and keep coming up with errors. [15:58]
assbot Logged on 15-07-2015 19:25:10; solrodar: http://178.62.64.22/dot-filter.py << instructions at top [15:59]
punkman yeah it's a base64 blob that includes file and signature when you --sign --armor [15:59]
danielpbarron what about this: gzip the patch and clearsign that [15:59]
* jurov gasps [15:59]
mod6 see, we could uu encode stuff or gzip stuff or do any number of things, but then it's far less readable "as-is" [16:00]
ben_vulpes n6: all of my noodling on the topic resides at http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph/ [16:00]
assbot Index of /bitcoin/callgraph/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1gXRYVd ) [16:00]
mod6 and i thought that was kinda one of the requirements. [16:00]
mod6 "easy to read" [16:00]
ben_vulpes mod6: not that my browser will do anything with the patch files but download them. [16:00]
mod6 that's fine, but what if I just wanna look through the submitted patches in deedbot? i now have to do a bunch of extra gyrations to even see the text [16:01]
ben_vulpes there's always /patches.html... [16:01]
punkman I just mentioned it as an easy way to make deeds out of patches [16:02]
danielpbarron deedbot isn't where you go to read it all; it's where you go to verify it all [16:02]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable. [16:02]
mod6 what about for unsigned new submissions? [16:02]
punkman (or deeds out of binaries) [16:02]
mod6 and there are 75`000 people and 50 submissions per day? [16:03]
mod6 could be scripted i suppose... but just sayin [16:03]
punkman wat [16:03]
mod6 punkman: taking it back to the earlier premise. [16:03]
mod6 are you guys following what I'm saying? [16:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53705 @#64; 0.00054068 = 29.0372 BTC [+] [16:05]
mod6 maybe not. lol. [16:07]
n6 ben_vulpes: still having an issue getting "bitcoin/src/serialize.h:963:10: error: class member cannot be redeclared" even with your callgraph.sh, what am I missing? [16:07]
punkman mod6, "unsigned new submissions" < wat [16:08]
ben_vulpes n6 i have no idea, buddy [16:08]
ben_vulpes n6: are you running on os x? [16:08]
n6 yes. [16:08]
ben_vulpes ah well [16:08]
ben_vulpes you're on your own brave soul [16:08]
mod6 punkman: <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable. <+mod6> what about for unsigned new submissions? [16:09]
mod6 how does anything get into /patch.html ? [16:09]
ben_vulpes i recommend spinning up an aws gentoo instance. i've given up on macos support for this project. [16:09]
mod6 it first must be signed. [16:09]
n6 I will try that, thanks. [16:09]
ben_vulpes n6: i understand that this is not a welcome message. [16:09]
mod6 and /patch.html imho should not draw off of just any submission, only signed submissions from ben, myself and the author. [16:09]
mod6 it still doesn't help me view a base64 encoded submission to the deedbot [16:10]
ben_vulpes n6: d'you plan to get into the wot as well? [16:10]
n6 ben_vulpes: what more welcoming then support for free? [16:10]
n6 I'm already in the wot just have to auth. [16:10]
ben_vulpes !gettrust n6 [16:10]
assbot Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user n6: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=ben_vulpes&to=n6 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/n6/ [16:10]
mod6 anyway, the main point i wanted to bring up re: clearsigned patches into deedbot was this email: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000136.html [16:10]
assbot [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp ) [16:10]
mod6 as you can see clearsign mangles the text: - --- a/rotor.sh .... - -../dist/configure [16:11]
mod6 gnupg tries to escape lines that begin with a dash [16:11]
jurov mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it [16:11]
mod6 s/tries to// [16:11]
ben_vulpes !rate n6 1 crusty blood [16:11]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/596b688700f85b60 [16:11]
mod6 jurov: to me thats an extra step... is that what we're all prepared to live with? [16:12]
n6 thanks, I'm going to try and get this to work and come back [16:12]
ben_vulpes !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.n6.1:e630ded4962e532d208a74d782ea9c37451b0858c31fb4280fd9f2c7ddce525e [16:12]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for n6 with note: crusty blood [16:12]
jurov mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step [16:13]
mod6 i'd like to make something better, this is for sure. just whatever it is, i wanna know that it is better, not just sideways. [16:13]
punkman 30 pages in, "Ada for Software Engineers", the code examples look gnarly [16:13]
jurov turdatron needs to take bundles of patch + manifest (at least, can be any other files aside from patches) [16:13]
jurov and metadata what the patch applies on [16:13]
jurov question is, how to do this all better? [16:14]
mod6 good question. not sure that i have any useful answers here at this time. [16:14]
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mod6 other than what I already talked about and that's not really better either. [16:14]
mod6 i guess im just trying to picture in my mind how i would have to use, step by step, the proposed system every single day. [16:15]
mod6 and if those proposed steps are easier/better than what we currently hvae. [16:16]
jurov maybe we end up all using a script to put the package together and sign it.. but in this case it can just output an email message to be just fed to sendmail [16:16]
jurov or if someone come up with less turdy format than MIME [16:17]
punkman I wouldn't mind something like http://gogs.io/ but too much css I guess [16:17]
assbot Gogs: Go Git Service - A painless self-hosted Git service ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTzyTP ) [16:17]
mod6 <+jurov> mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step << i think partly ... my general concern is my understanding of how this proposed system would work. this concern is based on the fact that when the current system was proposed, i had the oppertunity to speak out and put in my say in the matter, but I didn't understand it so I don't think I objected very much. and now look at where we are. [16:20]
mod6 so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use. [16:20]
ascii_field colour me thick, but i still don't get where the 'crisis' is [16:21]
jurov so you still not understand what's this all about? [16:21]
ascii_field yes, i agree with mircea_popescu re: how patches should embed hash of antecedent file. and imho this solves whatever problem exists (that is, enables it to be solved locally by any participant, in the style he prefers) [16:22]
ascii_field while preserving the simultaneously total and minimal representation of .patch [16:23]
mod6 I think I need to see a concrete example of this - end to end. I just can't picutre it mentally. [16:24]
jurov yes that one is solved. but deedbot can be used only if clearsigned and without any accompanying text [16:24]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [16:25]
jurov mod6 you have seen alf's patch with embedded sha512 example? [16:25]
jurov !up ascii_field [16:25]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:25]
jurov if yes we can start from there [16:26]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225713 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225715 [16:26]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 14:37:50; asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0MWBGJ1 << original [16:26]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 14:37:56; asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/04XFDSF << augmented [16:26]
* mod6 looks [16:26]
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jurov !up fromphuctor [16:27]
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mod6 ok and that sha512 hash is of the file /before/ the changes were made resulting in the patch? [16:27]
mod6 (the unchanged original file) [16:27]
jurov yes [16:27]
mod6 ok. will diff take that and run it and ignore that first line with the hash? [16:27]
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jurov no, must roll ou our won diff/patch [16:28]
jurov *roll out [16:28]
* assbot removes voice from n6 [16:28]
ascii_field mod6: it will [16:28]
ascii_field because comment [16:28]
mod6 it does now, or it will because we must now reinvent diff/patch ? [16:28]
ascii_field what it won't do is take the hash into account when patching [16:28]
ascii_field that requires either modified 'patch' util, or wrapped in perl etc [16:29]
jurov but it's universally usable to (1) determine what version patch applies to (2) allows to remove files without listing whole contents [16:29]
ascii_field ^ [16:29]
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mod6 ok forget that im still confused for a moment because im dumb, and maybe I'll just get it in a few minutes... [16:30]
ascii_field this magic pill lets you take a bag of patches, and determine in what order they apply [16:30]
mod6 how do we reconsile this with the patches already created/applied [16:30]
mod6 ? [16:30]
ascii_field by scripted brute force if necessary [16:30]
ascii_field mod6: easy. i take mine and sign'em again [16:30]
ascii_field and the rest of us, same. [16:30]
ascii_field not so many that this is a mega-labour [16:30]
punkman or can start from next release [16:30]
ascii_field aha. [16:30]
mod6 so everyone else from the beginning of time (october 24th 2014) must resign all patches? [16:30]
ascii_field also works [16:30]
ascii_field all what, 25 of'em [16:31]
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mod6 i need to re-read all of the logs from today and have a nice long "think" about it. [16:33]
ben_vulpes poor mod6 can't catch a break around here [16:33]
hanbot (am starting today's logs myself) [16:33]
mircea_popescu mod6 sounds liek a plan [16:34]
ascii_field mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine [16:35]
ascii_field mod6: in the interest of maintaining the 'tree from beginning of the world' thing [16:35]
ascii_field which a robotic graphatron could then walk [16:35]
mircea_popescu good idea this [16:36]
mod6 i kinda like what i heard about that earlier. [16:38]
mod6 i gotta think about it a bit [16:39]
trinque putting the information to construct the tree in the patches themselves has a nice decentralized nature to it [16:39]
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mod6 <+ascii_field> mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine << ok no rush here. lemme just re-read and think about all of these things for a bit. [16:42]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225198 << blessfully, i don't think we're short these, by any sort of conceivable measure. nobody has that quality*count. we were however becoming a little short in organizing their effort, but i think that's resolving. [16:44]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:44:32; asciilifeform: and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc [16:44]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225210 << apparently not. emulate me, will you! [16:45]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:48:02; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper [16:45]
ascii_field l0l [16:46]
mircea_popescu the "rocks fall, everyone dies" of ai : "write mp emulator" [16:47]
shinohai mod6: debian wen fine again: Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u2 (2015-07-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux [16:48]
shinohai I saved the hated Ubuntu for last [16:48]
* ascii_field played privately with a mircea_popescu (from log linez) shannonizer [16:48]
ascii_field it was lulzy [16:48]
mircea_popescu anything good ? [16:48]
ascii_field esp when set against one made from me [16:48]
mircea_popescu post the bash thereof lol [16:48]
ascii_field nah i get to see enough meat shannonizing in real life [16:49]
ascii_field doubt anyone wants this [16:49]
ascii_field but if yes - then will, at some point [16:49]
mircea_popescu why do you think people read reddit ? it's got shannonappeal. [16:49]
ascii_field also this is pretty easy to write and good exercise for n00bz [16:49]
mod6 shinohai: excellent work! thank you. these are the first steps in a series of similar things needed. [16:49]
* CheckDavid (uid14990@#64;gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyqudysgjetzjrbj) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15440 @#64; 0.0005467 = 8.441 BTC [+] {6} [16:50]
* trixbutt (~skdsfhshf@#64;184-96-35-163.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:51]
* twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:54]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [16:55]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225245 << you're sounding like you expect this to be exceptional ? how the fuck often do i rebuild anything! what's more often than "once per machinbe" ? on ce per season ? recompile every election november ? once per pair of underwear ? [16:55]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:53:37; asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~ [16:56]
mircea_popescu this incidentally would be a pretty great equivalent of old style personality cult bs. all os must contain picture of stalin. once he dies, computing takes day off while everyone recompiles new picture in. for everything. [16:58]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [16:59]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:59]
BingoBoingo Oh, the many ways and times qntra suffers the slings and arrows of DDoS. People just can't stop endorsing us this way [16:59]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: vs when tree updates [16:59]
mircea_popescu bestkoreaos [16:59]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo aww, again ? [16:59]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: you just described glibc, l0l [16:59]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah been going on for a couple hours nao [16:59]
mircea_popescu "fixed". [17:00]
mircea_popescu ascii_field lulzy is lulzy. [17:00]
* Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:01]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225256 << me recalls when people noticed the "make directory dev (mkdir dev). navigate to it (cd dev)" snippet. [17:02]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 04:55:30; ben_vulpes: no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out [17:02]
mircea_popescu it IS USEFUL. [17:02]
mircea_popescu in the strictly limited but ever present sense that its presence prevents its absence from being harmful. [17:02]
ascii_field mircea_popescu is a fan of knuth's 'literate programming' ? [17:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119200 @#64; 0.0005489 = 65.4289 BTC [+] {6} [17:03]
mircea_popescu sure. [17:03]
mircea_popescu i'm a fan of knuth generally. [17:03]
ascii_field http://www.literateprogramming.com << apparently exists ! [17:03]
assbot Literate Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRlDJB ) [17:03]
mircea_popescu he may be argued with it, but so far without exception the "you'll come to agree, because you're smart and i'm right" controlled to date. [17:03]
ascii_field nah that's dijkstra [17:03]
ascii_field but sure. [17:04]
mircea_popescu same person. [17:04]
ascii_field l0l [17:04]
ascii_field shared beard. [17:04]
mircea_popescu i wonder how they dereference it. [17:04]
mircea_popescu actually i have nfi why knuth's book isn't the basis of cs in the us. [17:06]
mircea_popescu much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really [17:06]
ascii_field http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.S;h=45e6e854a5d2a4c3f26af264dfce56379d401425;hb=HEAD << example of literate programming alive [17:06]
assbot 192.168.0.150 Git - jonesforth.git/blob - jonesforth.S ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRm4Uk ) [17:06]
ascii_field (my personal favourite. mirror - original vanished) [17:06]
ascii_field my imaginary bitcoin book was to be a work of 'literate programming' [17:07]
ascii_field for example. [17:07]
mircea_popescu actually it's perfect. [17:07]
* ascii_field sadly pines for the book [17:07]
* DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@#64;unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:08]
* mircea_popescu briefly considers mirroring it, then notices it's actually histed on author's own domain, desists. [17:10]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.f;h=5c1309574ae1165195a43250c19c822ab8681671;hb=HEAD << the other half of it [17:10]
assbot 192.168.0.150 Git - jonesforth.git/blob - jonesforth.f ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRmBWh ) [17:10]
ascii_field and yes, it runs [17:10]
ascii_field and is a complete os, in a sense [17:10]
ascii_field cople kb. [17:10]
ascii_field *couple-a [17:10]
mircea_popescu looks pretty hairshirty. [17:10]
ascii_field but not really. 'simple as possible, not simpler' [17:11]
ascii_field there's a fella somewhere who wrote an 'arm' version, if any aficionados of that arch are reading this [17:11]
shinohai I'm none too thrilled with my foray into arm since bitcoin [17:11]
ascii_field shinohai: why? [17:12]
shinohai I'm still not at a level where I can cross-compile. So I have a rather useless box atm. [17:12]
ascii_field shinohai: you have 'rotor' built, yes ? [17:13]
shinohai yup [17:13]
shinohai binary still doesn't run on mah pogo so I did something wrong. [17:13]
ascii_field didja set the arch to arm ? [17:14]
shinohai I need to see someone's build log that doesn't mind sharing, I'm sire it will click what I'm not changing. [17:14]
ascii_field i guess this is one more thing i will have to post. [17:15]
shinohai Once I do figure out this necromancy, I am sure I will kick myself for the next 2-3 years for failing to see it. [17:16]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226167 << i personally prefer landau [17:16]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 20:06:27; mircea_popescu: much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really [17:16]
mircea_popescu for russian kids. [17:17]
mircea_popescu let each culture have its own fucking buildings already. what is this globalisation. [17:17]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225356 << this actually sounds sane. [17:19]
ascii_field where is the zimbabwean landau, aha [17:19]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 06:40:49; BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability. [17:19]
ascii_field btw there is a pretty fine british translation [17:20]
mircea_popescu ascii_field zimbabwean may not be a thing. [17:20]
ascii_field and didn't mircea_popescu eat it in french l0l [17:20]
mircea_popescu and sure, there is. [17:20]
mircea_popescu and yes, i did. [17:21]
mircea_popescu i'm not proposing it be forbidden or anything. just, i give localised first choice. [17:21]
mircea_popescu i made italian slavegirl read d.c. and english slavegirl read shakespeare not the other way around. why not ? works either way after all, by definition. [17:22]
* ascii_field pictures the gurlz lapping up feynman [17:22]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225397 ,<< "from around the world". [17:23]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 07:32:13; punkman: even though patent dates to 1974 [17:23]
mircea_popescu at least it wasn't built with the ground up with getting laid in mind, so i guess there is that. [17:24]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:29]
diametric !up ascii_field [17:31]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:31]
Michail1 midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius_ mixdio [17:31]
Michail1 midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius_ mixdio [17:31]
mircea_popescu ascii_field mike_c and whomever else concerned : http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/#comment-114967 ? [17:31]
assbot No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRpgiH ) [17:31]
ascii_field appears to display [17:32]
mike_c ah, good news. fixed for me. [17:32]
ascii_field ty mircea_popescu [17:32]
mircea_popescu does it also verify ? [17:32]
ascii_field nope. [17:34]
mike_c html and pgp don't mix [17:34]
ascii_field Dear MP, [17:34]
ascii_field gpg: invalid armor header: [17:34]
ascii_field gpg: Signature made Tue Aug 4 23:13:13 2015 EDT using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7 [17:34]
ascii_field gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy " [17:34]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225448 << get out of here. back in 2012 i was in a chan just like this one (or so it seemed), surrounded by idiots who blessfully got pushed out of bitcoiun by their own mentally stunted disability, but who at the time BELIEVED. [17:35]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 08:17:50; BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally. [17:35]
mircea_popescu like they believe in global warming and fuck knows what else. [17:36]
mircea_popescu as a substitute for a personality. [17:36]
ben_vulpes ascii_field, mircea_popescu: didn't hanbot teach us about the dangers of html and gpg earlier? [17:36]
mircea_popescu ascii_field it's one or the other it seems. either i <pre> it which makes it verify, but then linmes are fixed length. or else iu don't, which lets you read it, but ascii gets fucked. [17:36]
mircea_popescu the pill for this would be : never ever sign a cleartext with lines longer than the signature. [17:37]
mike_c or add some css for pre [17:37]
trinque could do that derpy overflow-x: auto in css at the cost of an eyesore scrollbar [17:37]
trinque yeah [17:37]
ascii_field ugh [17:37]
mircea_popescu i suppose i could add a style markup to the pre tag. [17:37]
mircea_popescu anyone know right off what it is ? [17:38]
trinque mircea_popescu: that one I said, if you want a scrollbar [17:38]
trinque overflow-x: auto; [17:38]
mircea_popescu "style=overflow-x:auto;" ? [17:38]
* ascii_field blissfully ignorant of this matter [17:38]
ben_vulpes trinque: continuing our windowing and emacs sojurn: https://github.com/ch11ng/exwm [17:38]
trinque style="overflow-x: auto" [17:38]
assbot ch11ng/exwm · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRq0UZ ) [17:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62800 @#64; 0.00053312 = 33.4799 BTC [-] [17:38]
mike_c sheesh, put a semicolon at the end :) [17:38]
* trixbutt is now known as trixisowned [17:38]
mircea_popescu isn't there a style that makes it wrap ? [17:39]
trinque mike_c: not required by the spec [17:39]
mike_c really? hm. spec is lazy. [17:39]
mike_c mircea_popescu: yeah, linewrap. [17:39]
mircea_popescu can i plox has usable format ty [17:40]
mike_c if you throw it up with the pre I can play with it and give you good css? [17:40]
trinque there's white-space: pre-wrap in css3 [17:40]
trinque mircea_popescu: ^ [17:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @#64; 0.00053312 = 3.1987 BTC [-] [17:40]
mircea_popescu gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7 [17:40]
mircea_popescu gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy " [17:40]
mircea_popescu in victory radio news, the thing doesn't work anymore full stop. [17:41]
trinque https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/white-space << options [17:41]
assbot white-space - CSS | MDN ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqr1w ) [17:41]
trinque mike_c | really? hm. spec is lazy. << yup, everything in the browser has the squish of trying to be maximally permissive [17:43]
mike_c i concur, still doesn't verify. overflow-x did make the scrollbar appear all the way at bottom, still sucks. white-space: pre-wrap also works, and makes the line breaks look even worse, but content is at least all visible. [17:44]
mike_c Feels like a line-ending problem. dpaste the original? [17:44]
mircea_popescu still bad signature. [17:45]
mike_c yeah [17:45]
mircea_popescu deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2Y7KA8E.txt [17:45]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [17:45]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqRFj ) [17:45]
mircea_popescu original works. [17:45]
BingoBoingo https://i.imgur.com/5BPo3BK.jpg [17:45]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqSZV ) [17:45]
mircea_popescu there was an issue where pre created a new line. why ? FUCK YOU FOR USING THINGS THATS WHY [17:45]
mircea_popescu but even with that fixed, still broken [17:46]
ascii_field BingoBoingo: ew [17:46]
mike_c I think mpex method is perhaps best method. Just show the text and link to verifiable text blob. [17:46]
ben_vulpes ^^ [17:46]
BingoBoingo ascii_field: Only so many nuggets I can do when qntra under DDoS [17:46]
trinque a literal shit-heel... [17:47]
ascii_field mike_c, ben_vulpes: sad that text has to appear twice [17:47]
trinque the wonders in life, man [17:47]
mircea_popescu yeah i guess so mike_c [17:47]
ascii_field BingoBoingo: i still don't get it, why was it necessary to shit in a bath tub ? [17:48]
mircea_popescu ascii_field it's reddit baiting. [17:48]
BingoBoingo ascii_field: Because OP was "galaxy" sized [17:48]
mircea_popescu people used to try and suck producer cock to "be a tv star" [17:48]
mircea_popescu now they sit on couch try to "invent viral memes" [17:48]
ascii_field iirc they make custom 'american' toilets for this [17:48]
ascii_field somebody linked one earlier [17:49]
mircea_popescu mike_c anyway ima link to deedbot just as soon as it pops. [17:49]
ascii_field (photo of reinforced mega-toilet) [17:49]
BingoBoingo ascii_field: Installing toilet is work. Acquiring toilet costs money that could be spent on Beetus fuel. [17:50]
mike_c technology aside, that is still good news. Perhaps 2015 will be the year! [17:50]
mircea_popescu ya srsly. [17:50]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: embrace the webshit. iframe to signed thinger! [17:51]
ascii_field ick [17:51]
ben_vulpes embrace the shit [17:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225462 << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ? [17:51]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 08:27:03; BingoBoingo: I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit. [17:51]
* ascii_field actually wrote a web thing! [17:51]
ben_vulpes swallow the shit [17:51]
ben_vulpes love the shit [17:51]
ascii_field (phuctor) [17:51]
* ben_vulpes goes looking for shitposts [17:51]
BingoBoingo ... << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ? Hard to stick in portable machine. Also problem isn't machine. Problem is cg isn't available as source or for OpenBDSM [17:52]
ben_vulpes But thoughtful Pointsman, anticipating this, has been sending laxative pills with her meals. Now her intestines whine softly, and she feels shit begin to slide down and out. He kneels with his arms up holding the rich cape. A dark turd appears out the crevice, out of the absolute darkness between her white buttocks. He spreads his knees, awkwardly, until he can feel the leather of her boots. He leans forward to surround the hot turd [17:52]
ben_vulpes with his lips, sucking on it tenderly, licking along its lower side . . . he is thinking, he’s sorry, he can’t help it, thinking of a Negro’s penis, yes he knows it abrogates part of the conditions set, but it will not be denied, the image of a brute African who will make him behave. . . . The stink of shit floods his nose, gathering him, surrounding. It is the smell of Passchendaele, of the Salient. Mixed with the mud, and the [17:52]
ben_vulpes putrefaction of corpses, it was the sovereign smell of their first meeting, and her emblem. The turd slides into his mouth, down to his gullet. He gags, but bravely clamps his teeth shut. Bread that would only have floated in porcelain waters somewhere, unseen, untasted—risen now and baked in the bitter intestinal Oven to bread we know, bread that’s light as domestic comfort, secret as death in bed . . . Spasms in his throat [17:52]
ben_vulpes continue. The pain is terrible. With his tongue he mashes shit against the roof of his mouth and begins to chew, thickly now, the only sound in the room. . . . [17:52]
ben_vulpes (Pynchon) [17:52]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo that's a point huh. [17:53]
BingoBoingo Turn out Eulora isn't completely Open Source yet. [17:53]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: When I get time though I'll try chopping Eulora to remove the parts that depend on it and see if it works [17:54]
ascii_field aha, this is why i haven't tried it yet personally [17:54]
mircea_popescu honestly i don't even recall how or why cg is in there. mebbe chetty can shed a light [17:54]
BingoBoingo It's probably there for shader effects [17:55]
mircea_popescu you can definitely turn those off. [17:55]
BingoBoingo Best way to turn off is with key [17:55]
BingoBoingo Also Crystal space uses cg at least until its next release [17:56]
mircea_popescu hey, i'd be all for a special "all open" client if you feel like doing this [17:56]
mircea_popescu do it, get some pickaxes to dig up the euloran lands [17:57]
BingoBoingo I'll give it a try [17:57]
BingoBoingo If anyone else better equipped for task wants to attempt They would probably require less time. [17:58]
mircea_popescu no shortage of tasks. [17:59]
shinohai ;;later tell mod6 Ubuntu builds fine for me w/ image provided. [17:59]
gribble The operation succeeded. [17:59]
mod6 w00t [18:00]
mod6 thanks shinohai [18:00]
shinohai nw, vm building was a bit slow but I chalk it up to Ubuntu bloat. [18:00]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:02]
mod6 if anyone else wants to try here are the steps: http://dpaste.com/1Q96E5N.txt [18:02]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRsLWh ) [18:02]
shinohai !up ascii_field [18:02]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:02]
ascii_field since my broadcast was mentioned: any interest in 'rotolinux' ? [18:02]
mod6 please ensure that you are running x86_64 by doing `uname -a` [18:02]
gernika ^^ [18:02]
mod6 if NOT, if you're running i686 or i386, replace auto.sh with: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000071.html [18:03]
assbot [BTC-dev] Modified Portatronic build script for building statically linked 32bit bitcoind: auto.sh (v0.0.5-32) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRsTVK ) [18:03]
shinohai *32-bit and Winblowze coming soon (tm)* [18:03]
* mod6 slaps shinohai with a large unix manual [18:03]
shinohai I spent all day yesterday getting slapped by Windows users asking questions about gaming. [18:04]
ascii_field i'd sooner port to 'amiga' [18:04]
ascii_field but - to each his own [18:04]
shinohai I refuse to buy a Windows box just to play a game. [18:04]
mod6 i had a neighbor once who showed me his amiga. never stopped raving about it. [18:05]
mod6 this was like in '06... it still worked. *shrug* [18:05]
shinohai I still have my childhood Tandy [18:06]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225836 < word./ [18:08]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 15:27:45; trinque: the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons [18:08]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225862 << explain to me why do you need magic numbers. [18:10]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 17:15:51; ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225798 << how do i embed ~unmutilatable~ binaries in deedbot? uuencode ?!!! [18:10]
ascii_field ? [18:10]
mircea_popescu what do you suppose a binary is ? [18:10]
ascii_field an unmutilated string of bitz [18:10]
mircea_popescu all binaries are magic numbers. [18:10]
mircea_popescu they do not belong in the code pot. [18:10]
ascii_field can't post unmutilated - can't sign [18:11]
ascii_field just the way it is. [18:11]
mircea_popescu i dun follow [18:11]
ascii_field didn't we just have this thread ? [18:12]
ascii_field re: s.nsa broadcast? [18:12]
mircea_popescu maybe i had an aneurism or something. [18:12]
mircea_popescu but that's not a bin oh you mean text-as-binary ? [18:12]
ascii_field retarded code rapes text because it can [18:12]
mircea_popescu well calling it "binary" doesn't protect it you know, just confuses me. but i see what you mean. [18:13]
ascii_field 'binary' is what folks call strings of bits that will die if raped [18:13]
ascii_field hence why i insist that a turdatron must support 'binaries' [18:13]
ascii_field because enough with the rape plz [18:13]
mircea_popescu feminist. [18:13]
ascii_field 'i meant what i said, and i said what i meant, a walrus is certain a hundred percent'. go, rape, but that wasn't what i signed wazzit. [18:14]
mircea_popescu this conversation is hateful of male values and triggers me. [18:14]
ascii_field can always sign uuncode, l0l [18:15]
ascii_field *uuencode [18:15]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225877 << im not reading that, but did you find the actual thesis ? [18:15]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 17:32:26; BingoBoingo: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009920.html << lol [18:15]
mircea_popescu on the face seems more of gavin-the-retard having "studies" and "Economists agree" and "industreew support" bs "if we say it then it becomes a thing because magic is magic" stuff [18:16]
mircea_popescu ascii_field could also just be gents and not rape the text. [18:17]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Gavin doesn't know how mining works or is a liar. [18:17]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: gpg rapes. [18:17]
ascii_field mail client rapes [18:17]
ascii_field sendmail rapes [18:17]
ascii_field etc. [18:17]
mircea_popescu mail yes, but i hope to see it disused eventually. gpg does not ? afaik ? [18:17]
ascii_field gpg does! [18:17]
ascii_field see the dashes in my broadcast, for example. [18:17]
mircea_popescu sigh [18:18]
ascii_field (they get 'escaped') [18:18]
mircea_popescu well it needs the dashes! [18:18]
shinohai What potential rape may look like: https://i.imgur.com/LcKy6eQ.jpg [18:18]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gKWGWF ) [18:18]
mircea_popescu they only get escaped if leading line! [18:18]
ascii_field this breaks code. (not even speaking of binaries, e.g., tarball) [18:18]
mircea_popescu shinohai nice tits. [18:18]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: regardless, can't rely on arbitrary string staying intact [18:18]
mircea_popescu sad but true huh. [18:19]
mircea_popescu -r ? [18:19]
mircea_popescu i HATE not being able to read shit. [18:19]
ascii_field -r ? [18:21]
mircea_popescu armorer [18:21]
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ascii_field -a [18:21]
mircea_popescu heh right you are. [18:22]
jurov maybe we and up patching gpg to scan for unmodified content from the beginning and for signature(s) from the end [18:23]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << more or less fixed, i guess [18:23]
jurov *end up [18:23]
assbot No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4fCuM ) [18:23]
jurov no mutilation needed [18:23]
ascii_field jurov: that still leaves the other rapists [18:25]
ascii_field mail clients, filters, etc [18:25]
ascii_field even paste buffers on some systems [18:25]
jurov only if you insist. [18:26]
jurov my mail client (kmail) allows to turn off wordwrap and html by two clicks. [18:27]
jurov never had any problem [18:27]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225953 << me is dutifully considering [18:27]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 18:54:25; mod6: if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work: [18:27]
ascii_field jurov: i use squirrelmail, and - afaik - mutilatory [18:27]
mircea_popescu ascii_field traditionally it must be observed, the problem of rapists has been resolved by controling the social group you hang out with, not by altering male anatomy. [18:28]
ascii_field i don't see why i oughta custom gpg, custom squirrelmail, custom shoelaces [18:29]
jurov you alread have custom squirrelmail [18:29]
jurov just not customized by you [18:29]
jurov :D [18:30]
ascii_field custom as in opening up rusted shut things that i haven't adjusted for many years [18:30]
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ascii_field verily this is a dumb idea [18:30]
mircea_popescu zing. [18:30]
mircea_popescu "already customized!" alfie. [18:30]
mircea_popescu you have any idea what all the tim swansons of the world gotta do wrt rusted shut things they've not adjusted for years ? [18:31]
mircea_popescu you complainin' bout squirrelmail, what's ferrocranium to say ? [18:31]
ascii_field wai wat [18:31]
ascii_field and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely? [18:32]
ascii_field no thx. [18:32]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:32]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [18:32]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [18:32]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:32]
mircea_popescu molci i susi. [18:32]
ascii_field i'll switch to ebcdc first. [18:32]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated. [18:33]
ascii_field *ebcdic [18:33]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work. [18:33]
ascii_field TEXT FILES GET RAPED [18:33]
mircea_popescu for lack of a better example, might consider http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/foxy_eulora_craftbottar.gz (included manifest), which does in fact do this, if crudely. [18:33]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRvxeh ) [18:33]
mircea_popescu ascii_field binary text, gimme a break. [18:34]
mircea_popescu a magical distillate whereby i can read it and programs don't rape it. binartytext. [18:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101699 @#64; 0.00053762 = 54.6754 BTC [+] {3} [18:34]
ascii_field aka gpg --deatch-sig [18:34]
jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226427 << now this is interesting. have a link? [18:35]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 21:32:44; ascii_field: and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely? [18:35]
ascii_field jurov: no link. just experience. [18:35]
ascii_field but i promise to post a sample next time it pops up [18:36]
jurov cuz i never noticed in 10 or so years married to xfree86/xorg [18:36]
ascii_field jurov: possibly this is a bug triggered by locale [18:36]
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jurov i do have locale set [18:37]
ascii_field you have 100% latin! [18:37]
jurov % ls nonex [18:37]
jurov ls: nie je možné pristupovať k nonex: Adresár alebo súbor neexistuje [18:37]
jurov ^ 100%latin [18:38]
ascii_field latin. [18:38]
jurov but anyway, we're talking about code, where do you want to use 8th bit? [18:38]
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ascii_field jurov: nowhere in the payload proper [18:40]
ascii_field but reflecting on the fact that i don't always get 'out' of paste buffer what comes 'in'. [18:40]
jurov ok, will wait for the occassion. [18:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14980 @#64; 0.00053404 = 7.9999 BTC [-] [18:40]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225969 < me. to read. [18:43]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 18:56:41; ascii_field: who thought this was a good idea, and why [18:43]
ascii_field can't read patches now ? [18:44]
ascii_field http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150710/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option_e35906e7432550b0cadd46bbc253258d39a8c210.patch << loads in all browsers [18:44]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRwenZ ) [18:44]
ascii_field they're all entirely readable. what am i missing ? [18:44]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226007 < wut ?! [18:45]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 19:03:14; mod6: what about for unsigned new submissions? [18:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 208550 @#64; 0.00052796 = 110.1061 BTC [-] {7} [18:45]
mircea_popescu ascii_field the objection to ml as is was not that individual patches are unreadable. [18:46]
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ascii_field what, then ? [18:47]
mircea_popescu well i don't feel equal to the task of restating the whole conversation as ongoing for past weeks / peaked today. i'll just say : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225521 [18:48]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 13:37:54; mircea_popescu: there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible. [18:48]
ascii_field imho embedding antecedents solves. [18:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @#64; 0.00053807 = 22.5451 BTC [+] {4} [18:48]
mircea_popescu if it stays as a ml, becomes a wiki, somehow otherwise including deedbot or not changes i do not care per se [18:48]
mircea_popescu just a pile of options that were considered [18:48]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated. << i didn't understand that this problem could be side-stepped with gpg --decrypt [18:48]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work. [18:48]
mircea_popescu but i guess the consensus is pointing towards, ml gets restated with antecedents, trinque writes a grapher for it all ? [18:50]
jurov so, ml can stay as is (without filename mutilation)? [18:50]
mircea_popescu well, grapher+verifier ideally. [18:50]
ascii_field that was my original suggestion earlier, yes [18:50]
mircea_popescu i have no objections to this [18:50]
ascii_field it would make it possible for, e.g., hanbot, to view the 'patchchain' cleanly [18:51]
ascii_field and ask meaningful questions about branches [18:51]
jurov plus it will detect (and optionally show decoded )clearsigned patches? [18:51]
mircea_popescu ^ [18:51]
mircea_popescu and ideally, have it spit out a "final version" with regressions accessible through some procedure (clicking) [18:51]
ascii_field jurov: the problem is that gpg 'escaping' is not a reversible operation [18:51]
ascii_field in that it is impossible for the machine to determine that a particular '- -' is to be transformed into a '-' or not [18:52]
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mircea_popescu you just remove "- " from all lines :D [18:52]
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ascii_field the 'escape' operation is thermodynamically lossy. [18:52]
mod6 ascii_field: so does `gpg --decrypt` work for that as danielpbarron & jurov said? [18:52]
ascii_field mod6; decrypt ? [18:52]
mod6 they said ... [18:52]
* mod6 scrolls back [18:52]
ascii_field it solves nothing [18:53]
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jurov well, if gpg can't undo it and it causes the patch to fail...then it fails. [18:53]
jurov sender will have to resend with detached sig [18:53]
mod6 <+danielpbarron> can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ? <+jurov> mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it [18:53]
ascii_field 'undoes' [18:53]
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ascii_field will destroy certain non-escaped text. [18:53]
ascii_field as described earlier. [18:53]
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mod6 so mutilates [18:54]
ascii_field aha. [18:54]
mod6 ok then we're settled. [18:54]
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mod6 i guess for me thats the one big thing, we can't have any mutilation of the patch files. or we'll just find ourselves banging our heads all the time. [18:55]
ascii_field ^^ [18:55]
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jurov it computes shasums of everything submitted already [18:55]
mircea_popescu i just tried this... it doesn't mutilate on encrypt/decrypt [18:55]
jurov can check easily [18:55]
mod6 and honestly, this is no poor reflection on deedbot. the thing is cool. [18:55]
mircea_popescu ie, - came out as - and - - as - - [18:56]
ascii_field that's because the output of 'encrypt' is a base64 turd that isn't expected to coexist with text the way a clearsigned string is. [18:57]
jurov as with xorg buffer, i'm curious, will see if anyone submits something with valid sig that gpg fails to unescape. [18:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @#64; 0.00052531 = 6.724 BTC [-] [18:57]
mircea_popescu ascii_field right [18:58]
mod6 ah, encrypt/decrypt, but we want clearsign or am i misunderstanding this? [18:58]
ascii_field mod6: somebody wanted 'clearsigned patches' [18:59]
jurov mod6 decrypt on *clearsigned* file [18:59]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226063 << a man who burned himself with the soup... [18:59]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use. [18:59]
ascii_field and i was trying to explain that this is deeply broken [18:59]
jurov will spew out the original [18:59]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226063 << a man who burned himself with the soup... << lol indeed [18:59]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use. [18:59]
mircea_popescu tbh an equivalent of the callgraph / mike's wot graph but for PATCHES would not be amiss. [19:02]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:03]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [19:03]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [19:03]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:03]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: to be clear, that is precisely what i had in mind when suggested the hash embed thing [19:03]
mircea_popescu have all the wot listed on the side. have all the patches AS A TREE listed next to it. have relations from wot tyo patches. [19:03]
ascii_field aha. [19:03]
mircea_popescu this would help me immensely. [19:03]
jurov can enlist trinque or anyone's help with graphics [19:04]
mircea_popescu so basically ml as restateds + grapher in the sense of the above, svg (clickable) is really the definitive word on this ? [19:04]
jurov clickable svg *gasp* :D [19:05]
mircea_popescu already sounds like a quantum leap tbh [19:05]
mircea_popescu jurov wut! [19:05]
ascii_field this is precisely what i had in mind, aha [19:05]
mircea_popescu mod6 ^ give that a long think. [19:05]
ascii_field (when i said 'graph walker' earlier today) [19:06]
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mircea_popescu trinque and with a bonus "click here for this patch" and "click here for this patch + all its antecedents" spew. [19:06]
ascii_field 'show who signed this' [19:07]
ascii_field 'load all sigs' [19:07]
mircea_popescu epic. [19:07]
ascii_field first needs the chicken, err, the embedded antecedent indicators [19:07]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 ^ give that a long think. << i like this idea with the wot graph + source patches as a tree next to it so relations can be easily seen & drilled into. [19:07]
mircea_popescu yes. [19:07]
mircea_popescu i knew this was a tooling problem mostly. pretty much 99% of all that's needed is already here. [19:08]
mircea_popescu just need to amass the pile into a sane shape [19:08]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> already sounds like a quantum leap tbh << it is. [19:08]
mircea_popescu and opbvciously, with a checkbox "allow this antecedent" [19:09]
mircea_popescu pruning the tree of all ulteriors that depend on an unclicked patch [19:10]
jurov and "launch missiles" [19:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @#64; 0.00055024 = 8.6938 BTC [+] {2} [19:11]
mod6 <+jurov> mod6 decrypt on *clearsigned* file << this indeed works. created file A.txt. copied A.txt to B.txt and subtracted some lines. created a unified diff of both. clearsigned the diff -- which is mutilated for escaped hyphens. upon `gpg --decrypt` of the clearsigned output patch file, i get the same hash as the pre-clearsigned hash file. [19:12]
mod6 *patch file. [19:17]
mod6 main difference seems to be... we would now need to enter our password every time to verify the signature as opposed to just --verify [19:18]
ascii_field no-go. [19:18]
mod6 oh actually, im wrong about that. [19:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47037 @#64; 0.00055025 = 25.8821 BTC [+] {5} [19:19]
mod6 it doesn't ask. derp. [19:19]
ascii_field this is still procrustean [19:19]
mod6 was gonna say. "how does that makes sense?!" [19:19]
mod6 had to look that up. [19:21]
mod6 ok well, yah [19:21]
jurov ;;ud procrustean [19:24]
gribble Google found nothing. [19:24]
mod6 ok so another question i have about the deedbot way.. would be: if we submit a patch to deedbot, how do we tie a message to that same submission? say we wanna be like "Hey, this thing is neat!" Will it need to reference anothe deedbot submission or does the patch have to come after our statment in the clearsigned message? [19:25]
jurov you can just submit both at once [19:25]
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jurov or otherwise suggest to deedbot they're related [19:26]
ascii_field throw message prior to the first 'diff ....' in the ,patch [19:26]
ascii_field but for the record i think this 'cram all in one file' thing is braindamaged. [19:26]
mod6 im not ciked about that either. [19:27]
ascii_field braindamaged and entirely unnecessary. [19:27]
ascii_field throw hashes in deedbot, sure. or even uuencodes. but to make it a canonical repository of anything else, is a microscope-hammer. [19:28]
ascii_field or perhaps more of a hammer-microscope. [19:28]
jurov having an option to tell deedbot "present these together on one page" should suffice [19:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @#64; 0.00052119 = 29.786 BTC [-] {4} [19:31]
mod6 but then you could just have detached sigs? [19:31]
scoopbot_revived Pity the lil' goldbuggers. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/05/pity-the-lil-goldbuggers/ [19:31]
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mod6 that would be the way to do it as I said earlier. but not sure if that's really feasable. [19:32]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:33]
mod6 !up ascii_field [19:33]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:33]
ascii_field detached sigs are the way to go, imho. [19:33]
ascii_field esp since >1 person can sign a patch [19:33]
ascii_field there is not a 1:1 mapping between sigs & patches [19:34]
ascii_field storing the same text >1 time is retarded [19:34]
ascii_field dealing with mutilations - likewise [19:34]
mod6 well and probably error prone if he/she has to cut the upper text out just to get down to "bare" patch to re-clearsign and submit to deedbot... could miss line, something bad. [19:35]
mod6 etc [19:35]
ascii_field aha. [19:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @#64; 0.0005516 = 22.1743 BTC [+] {3} [19:35]
ascii_field http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/detail/government-ruins-the-dishwasher-again << lol (via pete_dushenski) [19:37]
assbot Government Ruins the Dishwasher (Again) : Anything Peaceful : Foundation for Economic Education ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqt8UN ) [19:37]
ascii_field 'Welcome to regulated America, where once fabulous consumer inventions like refrigerators, freezers, washing machines, and dishwashers have been reduced to a barely functioning state. The reasons are always the same: 1) phosphorous-free detergent, 2) a fetish with saving water, 3) weaker motors that use less electricity, 4) more tepid water due to low default settings on hot water heaters, and 5) reduced water pressure in [19:38]
ascii_field general.' [19:38]
ascii_field 'If the regulators really do get their way, functioning dishwashers could become like high-flow toilets: contraband to be snuck across borders and sold at a high black market prices.' [19:39]
jurov same in eu. can't find washmachine with <2 hour cycle anymore cuz "saves water and electricity" [19:39]
ascii_field i can confirm, ~proper~ toilets have been rare and collectible in usaschwitz, since '90s [19:40]
ascii_field http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html << unrelated l0l [19:41]
assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IqtE5i ) [19:41]
ascii_field 'In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.' [19:41]
ascii_field https://archive.is/EOetK [19:43]
assbot In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqu4IO ) [19:44]
danielpbarron heh, the locals are food in the "circle of life" [19:44]
ascii_field http://trilema.com/2015/peripateticists-kinda-except-girls-not-boys-bare-cunt-instead-of-toga-and-walking-around-the-house-not-the-garden-but-otherwise-exactly-the-same << obligatory [19:44]
assbot Peripateticists, kinda, except girls not boys, bare cunt instead of toga and walking around the house not the garden, but otherwise exactly the same. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqucbd ) [19:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @#64; 0.0005186 = 14.2096 BTC [-] {4} [19:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102129 @#64; 0.00054998 = 56.1689 BTC [+] {4} [19:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146871 @#64; 0.00055312 = 81.2373 BTC [+] {5} [19:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7971 @#64; 0.00051829 = 4.1313 BTC [-] [19:59]
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Adlai oh look, it's shitpost o'clock: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-12-2014#953986 [20:16]
assbot Logged on 15-12-2014 23:14:04; assbot: The MPEx Shuffle - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1wBYQL8 ) [20:16]
Adlai goes well with music [20:16]
mircea_popescu jurov ie, like being in procust's bed, crushed by a giant to fit. [20:18]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-08-2015#1224601 << https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/activity [20:18]
assbot Logged on 04-08-2015 21:50:14; ascii_field: danielpbarron: he was a relatively early 'computer sucks and must be rebuilt' person. sadly, i've no idea what he is up to these days. [20:18]
assbot asdf / asdf | GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1UpfF7i ) [20:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform [...] microhammer << was just an early suggestion, no one's married to it. [20:19]
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mircea_popescu to celebrate new trilema header, i give you... http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/letscallhershm.jpg [20:36]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5Vbxr ) [20:36]
shinohai Bravissimo [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70018 @#64; 0.00053621 = 37.5444 BTC [+] {2} [20:46]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22282 @#64; 0.00053924 = 12.0153 BTC [+] [20:47]
asciilifeform dulap ~STILL~ wedged [20:50]
asciilifeform 'getinfo' call i made this morning ~STILL~ waiting [20:51]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 82.130.102.211:58774 [20:51]
asciilifeform accepted connection 103.1.71.45:50543 [20:51]
asciilifeform socket closed [20:51]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 103.1.71.45:50543 [20:51]
asciilifeform ... [20:51]
asciilifeform etc [20:51]
asciilifeform other nodes - normal [20:52]
shinohai I still have 0 connections on both my nodes [20:52]
asciilifeform socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0 [20:52]
asciilifeform motherfuckers [20:52]
asciilifeform guess this means i'ma have to set up vpn between the nodez [20:53]
asciilifeform but this is not enough, will need the hard-fuckyou-never-disconnect-from-nobles patch [20:53]
shinohai O.o [20:54]
asciilifeform think of it this way: zoolag and incitatus were plugged into dulap with -addnode. but this was not enough [20:55]
trinque needs something akin to connect but with multiple, right? [20:56]
asciilifeform -connect takes multiples [20:56]
asciilifeform but is RETARDED in that it creates a drone node that can't be connected to by anyone. [20:56]
shinohai I was about to say ... ive been using -connect only for weeks [20:56]
shinohai which defeats the purpose [20:56]
asciilifeform confirmed, neither zoolag nor incitatus is presently connected to dulap [20:57]
asciilifeform this should not be a thing. [20:57]
asciilifeform connect or fucking die. [20:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164100 @#64; 0.00055226 = 90.6259 BTC [+] {8} [20:57]
asciilifeform i was loathe to implement hardcoded noble-peer by ip, because hitler can put whatever he wants at that ip, from the perspective of my box [20:58]
asciilifeform (mitm) [20:58]
asciilifeform for now it'll have to be hardcoded to port on localhost, pumped through ssh tunnel to remote host, where same. [20:58]
trinque asciilifeform: ah right [20:59]
trinque is this just stupid behavior entirely re: connect? [20:59]
trinque seems so [20:59]
asciilifeform trinque: i don't have ANYTHING -connect'ed [20:59]
trinque should be separate concerns entirely [20:59]
asciilifeform this concerns all modes. [20:59]
trinque I'm saying one setting for "serve blocks to others" and another for which nodes to connect to [20:59]
asciilifeform i have a box where some sniveling fucker has been lifting payloads out of tcp, for ~9+ hours now. [21:00]
asciilifeform trinque: setting '-peers' for nodes which 1) don't obey 'misbehave' bits 2) get served PRIORITY regardless of what [21:01]
asciilifeform 3) node is considered to be operating in red blinkenlight mode if ANY of them are not responding [21:01]
asciilifeform call'em 'supernodez' if feeling rpietilian [21:02]
shinohai I just commented out my addnode/connect jazz just to run for now :/ [21:03]
asciilifeform #2 in particular means that 'plebes' get DROPPED EN MASSE if that's what it takes [21:03]
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asciilifeform to service a noble. [21:04]
asciilifeform this is good prep for the shiny phyoootooreh of hello kitty when noble nodes will sit on trunk lines and connecting to them will cost what a seat at nyse costs [21:05]
shinohai ^____________________^ [21:06]
* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [21:06]
asciilifeform laugh all you like, but i can't picture things working, long-term, any other way [21:06]
shinohai asciilifeform: with the pogo binary from the mailing list I got 3 connections xD [21:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24928 @#64; 0.00053707 = 13.3881 BTC [-] [21:17]
shinohai nm, they arent the connections I specified. [21:17]
* tcrypt (~tylersmit@#64;c-67-169-17-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:23]
BingoBoingo !up tcrypt [21:25]
* assbot gives voice to tcrypt [21:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19551 @#64; 0.00053707 = 10.5003 BTC [-] {2} [21:27]
BingoBoingo It looks like MS has been outbid for Theo's love http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150804161939 [21:27]
assbot The OpenBSD Foundation Announces First Platinum Donor: CII ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN2xWq ) [21:27]
shinohai https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fv6jp/payed_for_coffee_payed_twice_by_mistake_merchant/ <<< kek [21:32]
assbot Payed for coffee. Payed twice by mistake. Merchant used BitPay. Help! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN2TMR ) [21:32]
* mike_c (~mike_c@#64;unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:36]
* assbot gives voice to mike_c [21:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90244 @#64; 0.00054299 = 49.0016 BTC [+] {3} [21:53]
shinohai Little wonder I can find any jobs4bitcoin these days: http://redd.it/3a536o [21:54]
assbot HIRING: 3 BTC Finder fee, find a lender for me. : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN4S3H ) [21:54]
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* assbot removes voice from tcrypt [21:55]
punkman shinohai, dafuq is that [21:56]
shinohai Some idiot on jobs4bitcoin. Some days the requests baffle me. [21:57]
* Duffer1 (~Duffer1@#64;c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:57]
punkman looks like plain laundering deal [21:57]
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shinohai My thoughts as well. I'll throw up a webserver or stuff like that on there. But those sorts of postings are a big nope for me. [21:59]
punkman http://www.reddit.com/r/Jobs4Bitcoins/comments/3fv8hj/for_hire_chinese_to_english_translation/ [22:01]
assbot [For Hire] Chinese to English Translation : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRP5PR ) [22:01]
* assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0 [22:01]
punkman lulz4bitcoin [22:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23001 @#64; 0.00055705 = 12.8127 BTC [+] [22:01]
punkman http://www.reddit.com/r/Jobs4Bitcoins/comments/3fl4ch/hiring_secure_web_developer/ << meowmix! [22:02]
assbot [Hiring] Secure Web Developer : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRPaTo ) [22:02]
BingoBoingo These rates https://archive.is/w7WwW [22:03]
assbot [For Hire] Chinese to English Translation : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRPbH0 ) [22:03]
punkman http://www.reddit.com/r/fakeid/comments/3fpymm/meowmixids_scammed_me/ [22:04]
assbot Meowmixids scammed me : fakeid ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN5NB5 ) [22:04]
mats win10 has a package manager [22:04]
mats huk [22:04]
BingoBoingo Orly [22:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32983 @#64; 0.00053367 = 17.602 BTC [-] {2} [22:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform some nodes may be like that, but it's necessarily going to be the exception not the rule [22:14]
BingoBoingo Oh, so /r/coontown was banned [22:16]
BingoBoingo I think it makes sense for node operators to come to agreements to make some of their connections through SSH tunnels. [22:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9917 @#64; 0.00052836 = 5.2397 BTC [-] [22:19]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: pretty obvious that it would be a rare thing. most folks don't have nyse seats. [22:20]
asciilifeform dulap ~still~ in black hole. [22:21]
* asciilifeform spent the past few hrs looking at what it'd take to craft the 'noble nodez' thing. [22:21]
mircea_popescu so why aren;t you buying the trunk line [22:21]
asciilifeform because i'm a pauper ? [22:22]
asciilifeform why else. [22:22]
mircea_popescu hm [22:22]
mircea_popescu that didn't play out as expected. [22:22]
asciilifeform l0l [22:22]
* BingoBoingo thinks something like OpenBSD uses for authenticating repository keys for anonCVS could work for important node connections [22:23]
mircea_popescu "If you can write 'if' in FORTH, then why restrict 44 yourself to the usual if/while/for/switch constructs? You want a construct that iterates 45 over every other element in a list of numbers? You can add it to the language." [22:23]
mircea_popescu this strikes me as uniquely retarded [22:23]
asciilifeform what, in particular ? [22:24]
mircea_popescu why would i make a "construct" in the language that does i+2 [22:24]
asciilifeform say you wanna implement a bignum [22:24]
mircea_popescu ok [22:24]
asciilifeform walks an array of $machineword and adds'em up, munging the carry bits as needed. [22:24]
asciilifeform just one example. [22:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is not even the darkest voodoo. consider, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-06-2015#1169416 [22:25]
assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 01:37:28; asciilifeform: phun phakt: 'scheme' programming language has its 'call-with-current-continuation', perhaps the oddest and 'most generic' control structure known, which takes the current place in execution and turns it into an assignable (yes) closure (i.e. callable function!) -- typically it is implemented using setjmp(). [22:25]
mircea_popescu why would i want to do it THIS way [22:25]
asciilifeform resistance of the medium [22:26]
mircea_popescu sit there and debug off-by-one errors in a pile of asm ? [22:26]
asciilifeform you wouldn't [22:26]
mircea_popescu what's wrong with include bignum.h [22:26]
asciilifeform BECAUSE NOT FORTH [22:26]
asciilifeform not part of the universe. [22:26]
asciilifeform can't be sourced at runtime [22:26]
asciilifeform and twiddled [22:26]
mircea_popescu so i static link [22:26]
asciilifeform and 'debug' only happens if someone made mistake. [22:26]
asciilifeform universe is to be perfect. [22:26]
mircea_popescu yes. me. [22:26]
mircea_popescu that's mostly what i make. [22:27]
mircea_popescu mistakes. [22:27]
asciilifeform l0l [22:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu please don't change profession to sapper. [22:27]
mircea_popescu problem is sapper keeps trying to change profession into me [22:27]
* mircea_popescu is jus' sittin' here [22:28]
asciilifeform 'you may not be interested in sapping, but sapping is interested in you' [22:28]
mircea_popescu aha [22:28]
asciilifeform http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExampleForthCode << for 'forth' n00bz [22:28]
assbot Example Forth Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7rmd ) [22:28]
asciilifeform (and potential aficionados) [22:28]
asciilifeform this, recall, is the universe on which chuck moore built not only ic, but entire tooling for his fab. [22:29]
asciilifeform possibly the only non-winblowz/wintel-based electronics toolchain in the world. [22:29]
asciilifeform (remaining) [22:29]
BingoBoingo resistance of the medium << Is there any other reason to ever do anything? [22:29]
asciilifeform btw if you own a 'mac' or a 'sun', you have forth. [22:30]
BingoBoingo https://voat.co/v/CoonTown/comments/379756 << Reddit [22:31]
assbot Checking your bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7zlK ) [22:31]
* ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...) [22:31]
asciilifeform or possibly only on ppc macs? [22:31]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo ? [22:31]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Probably only on PPC. PPC got a lot of cool stuff. Perhaps not across whole PPC run though. Will have to look into. [22:32]
asciilifeform 'A community will be Quarantined on Reddit when we deem its content to be extremely offensive or upsetting to the average redditor or to ourselves.' << l0lziez [22:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @#64; 0.00053946 = 12.4615 BTC [+] [22:34]
* BingoBoingo not sure if entirely improvement or not http://dpaste.com/30TF18Z [22:34]
assbot dpaste: 30TF18Z ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7K0k ) [22:34]
asciilifeform l0l, medicine for corpse. [22:35]
asciilifeform http://cubbi.com/fibonacci/forth.html << moar forth for n00bz [22:36]
assbot cubbi.com: fibonacci numbers in Forth ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7OgO ) [22:36]
asciilifeform (basic maths) [22:36]
asciilifeform if it seems 'hairy', it is only to folks who don't use 'rpn' calculator daily. [22:37]
BingoBoingo Forth looks incredibly legible. More so than cpp [22:37]
asciilifeform and worth noting that a perfectly usable forth, on which all of these examples will run, can be implemented for just about ~any~ machine in a few HUNDRED BYTES [22:37]
asciilifeform needing not even operating system. [22:37]
asciilifeform (so long as you have a serial port going) [22:38]
* mircea_popescu doesn't dispute any of this. [22:38]
mircea_popescu but it does seem to me very much akin to a "hey, if you salt a fresh frog leg you can electrocute it into moving". cool! but instead i order my slaves to read and summarize for me! [22:38]
asciilifeform it doesn't cure cancer, baldness, impotence, no. [22:38]
asciilifeform this is more like 'a few minutes' incantations create a gurl from thin air' [22:39]
mircea_popescu orly ? [22:39]
asciilifeform she might not be grade-a beauty, but fuckable. [22:39]
mircea_popescu this i'd like to see demonstrated. [22:39]
mircea_popescu ahahahaha [22:39]
asciilifeform ask chuck moore. [22:39]
mircea_popescu i guess we get to the gist of it [22:39]
asciilifeform he's in her right now. [22:39]
asciilifeform !s greenarrays [22:39]
assbot 14 results for 'greenarrays' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=greenarrays [22:39]
mircea_popescu yes in her, but as in, he fell in ? [22:40]
* BingoBoingo flipping through Eulora source can make no sense of what files do what. It is nothing like Bitcoin which is the only big cpp turn I am kinda familiar with. [22:40]
asciilifeform neh, as in pumping happily [22:40]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo chetty spent two years for a result in parts no different. [22:40]
asciilifeform http://yosefk.com/blog/my-history-with-forth-stack-machines.html << obligatory re: up/down of forth [22:41]
asciilifeform ^ mega-classic [22:41]
assbot My history with Forth & stack machines ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7Y7N ) [22:41]
mircea_popescu "My VLSI tools take a chip from conception through testing. Perhaps 500 lines of source code. Cadence, Mentor Graphics do the same, more or less. With how much source/object code?" [22:41]
asciilifeform (imho the definitive work on the subject) [22:41]
mircea_popescu yeah, this part is clear to me [22:41]
mircea_popescu but... i don't design chips! [22:42]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I may surprise drop cg less full open Eulora client, but more likely CrystalSpace will hit version 2.2, chetty will build Eulora client against it, and Full Open Eulora client just happens [22:42]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i don't think we will ever move that. [22:42]
asciilifeform it is an example of a gnarly domain that chuck moore obliterated into something that fits in his palm. [22:42]
* asciilifeform brb eating [22:42]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It appears years in the future. I imagine Adlai will prolly get an emacs client first. Or I'll get a sacrificial linux machine first (sacrificial linux machine is tiered below box to colo cheap for infrastructure BTC node). [22:44]
BingoBoingo But I am in the process of dancing with university to set up job interview, so may have fiat stream to start burning soon [22:45]
mircea_popescu : ( 41 word drop ; immediate [22:45]
mircea_popescu i have to know the ascii value of ) to code in forth ? [22:45]
Adlai being able to grow a beard should suffice [22:47]
scoopbot_revived BitBet (S.BBET) July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/bitbet-sbbet-july-2015-statement/ [22:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform truth be told : do you find this interesting for any other reason than the vague whiff of a promise of perhaps allowing you toi make btc chips / [22:51]
BingoBoingo Resistance of the medium? [22:52]
BingoBoingo Oh BitBet got big donations!!! [22:52]
mod6 ok so was kinda thinking about something here... so we all love to hate the mailing list in a way - but it's a decent spot to post new things, experimental, SoBAs etc. But it's not good for keeping track of patches that /actually/ are accepted and a part of a given "release". [22:54]
mod6 but what if we then, say, at the end of a testing/release cycle were to (instead of signing or as well as posting to the mailing list) post the plaintext patch and a detach signature from the originating author, myself & ben to deedbot as a perm storage for these patches? [22:55]
mod6 trinque thinks this might be able to be implemented without moving heaven and earth [22:55]
mircea_popescu "Good Forth programmers reportedly don't use much of those. Good Forth programmers arrange things so that they flow on the stack. " this is mel redivivus innit. most pessimum! [22:56]
mircea_popescu mod6 why'd it need anything moved at all ? [22:57]
mod6 oh, i think he was saying that he would need to implement accepting a second argument and making it so that the URL contains a hash of the original plaintext patch. [22:58]
trinque mircea_popescu: he's considering a case where the thing would be able to accept new detached sigs for existing deeds [22:58]
* BingoBoingo thinks whole problem is that 'patch' demands line numbers instead of using nearby lines of code as landmarks [22:58]
mod6 that way it sort of also solves the problem of keeping track of who signed which patch. since deedbot stores these sigs in a horizontal fashion next to the address. [22:59]
mircea_popescu promises to make a nightmare of management tho. [22:59]
mircea_popescu how do i do "find me all people who signed this" ? [22:59]
trinque that calls for a second screen which would group by deed and list the sigs [22:59]
mod6 i guess this thought was sort of a work in progress. [22:59]
mod6 maybe something can be added? like trinque is saying? i dunno. [23:00]
punkman BingoBoingo: it does use nearby lines [23:00]
trinque neat thought; I can see something useful there for contracts generally [23:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ok. i both read this before and i broadly agree with the man. [23:01]
punkman trinque: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-11-2014#915286 [23:02]
assbot Logged on 09-11-2014 01:21:15; punkman: here's a thought: .sign AQLSTVsF http://paste.com/detached_sig.txt [23:02]
trinque punkman: yup that's precisely what's being discussed [23:03]
mod6 so i guess all in all, the deedbot solution, if it can be created, seems better than my initial proposal of 2 mailing lists; one for everything, one for patches accepted only. which seems simple as well, but now we have to manage two lists. [23:04]
mod6 on the other side of the coin, if we do something like this with deedbot, we need to ensure a mirror is always available. [23:04]
punkman I don't see how deeding patches helps with what started this discussion [23:05]
mircea_popescu "Bacteria have no junk in their DNA. " << very false, actually. percent-wise, the junk-in-dna is perhaps the most stable parameter of life in general [23:05]
mircea_popescu tbh i don't either. [23:06]
mod6 well, nevermind then. [23:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64250 @#64; 0.000527 = 33.8598 BTC [-] {2} [23:07]
punkman not that I'd mind patch deeds, but can basically deed patch hashes already [23:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @#64; 0.00055807 = 20.9276 BTC [+] {3} [23:08]
trinque this grouping together of things signed can be done with deeds as they are [23:08]
mircea_popescu moreover, it just puts you in harm's way mod6. [23:08]
trinque just a hash of the content aside from the sig [23:08]
mircea_popescu what, now you're oBLIGEd to sign shit so people can use it ? [23:08]
mircea_popescu what you got, a deathwish ? [23:08]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1226803 << i happen to like forth. i bring up chuck moore as an example of 'yes we can recreate 25 years of electronics on a napkin, and it'll fucking work' [23:09]
assbot Logged on 06-08-2015 01:51:35; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform truth be told : do you find this interesting for any other reason than the vague whiff of a promise of perhaps allowing you toi make btc chips / [23:09]
asciilifeform these are not entirely related, however. [23:09]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> moreover, it just puts you in harm's way mod6. << well. not all patches, just ones that we've signed off on anyway. [23:09]
mircea_popescu i still don't see why i'd do it, myself. [23:09]
mod6 no different than what we're already doing. [23:10]
BingoBoingo Oh, so much qntra DDoS [23:10]
mod6 or is it? and how? [23:10]
mircea_popescu if it's no different then why's it being discussed :) [23:10]
* btcdrak has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [23:10]
mod6 i just figured it was a neato way to keep the patches that we sign separate from the rest of the heap of stuff. [23:12]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1226813 << prolly the #1 common n00b observation. but you really want patches to only apply to precisely the thing they were meant for! context doesn't give you that. [23:12]
assbot Logged on 06-08-2015 01:59:06; *: BingoBoingo thinks whole problem is that 'patch' demands line numbers instead of using nearby lines of code as landmarks [23:12]
trinque one tangle is the lack of clear separation of problems in the conversation. [23:12]
mod6 but i see your point. [23:12]
trinque you've got "who signed this patch" and also "what is the parent node patch of this patch" [23:12]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: File hashes fix [23:12]
asciilifeform aha [23:12]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo fixed. [23:13]
punkman asciilifeform: but it does fuzz [23:13]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I get a 404 nao [23:13]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: nevermind, fixed [23:13]
trinque I actually grow to like the wiki suggestion best for the patch tree [23:14]
BingoBoingo And somehow 9 comment spammers made it through DDoS [23:14]
trinque need to document process at a step? go for it, it's a damn wiki [23:14]
mircea_popescu so wait, are we upon meditation now unaccepting the previous consensus-y spot ? [23:15]
asciilifeform ??? [23:15]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226478 [23:15]
assbot Logged on 05-08-2015 21:50:41; mircea_popescu: but i guess the consensus is pointing towards, ml gets restated with antecedents, trinque writes a grapher for it all ? [23:15]
* asciilifeform really, really doesn't grasp why any of the things mentioned thus far - OTHER than the antecedent markers - are needed. [23:15]
asciilifeform them & the grapher. [23:15]
BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/08/us-dod-may-surrender-substantial-ipv4-address-territory/#comment-37440 << chairmanmao@#64;gov.cn [23:16]
trinque that actually works fine for me as a separate tool, and as you say, if there's a wiki, great [23:16]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> them & the grapher. << i can live with this. [23:16]
mod6 was just derpin i guess. [23:16]
trinque mircea_popescu: yep that sounds fine [23:16]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: not Official until approved by hitler@#64;whitehouse.gov [23:16]
BingoBoingo lol [23:16]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "ddos" is you know, best effort kinda deal. just because you can't get through in 5 tries doesn't mean every one of the 50k or whatever many tries also failks. [23:17]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Given the duration seems like they succeded closer to 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 [23:18]
BingoBoingo https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4933387980_7d87a984d8_o.jpg [23:21]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4wCfU ) [23:21]
trinque BingoBoingo: fucker just got me actually [23:27]
trinque he challenged me to a game of "lemme try an' cut you" and I lost [23:27]
BingoBoingo I me probably not going to intentionally acquire cat until possesses farm. [23:28]
scoopbot_revived Brief Offer Insight into USG Theory of Internet Security http://qntra.net/2015/08/brief-offer-insight-into-usg-theory-of-internet-security/ [23:28]
BingoBoingo Title fxd [23:28]
decimation as a long time user of RPN calculators I do indeed find forth pleasing [23:29]
trinque BingoBoingo: "As if so often" << typo [23:29]
punkman "Next Generation Cyber Initiative (Next Gen Cyber) received USD$ 400.6 mn in Treasury funding in 2014 alone, which was used to employ 1`333 full-time positions" << really? they couldn't have hired 4 more? [23:30]
BingoBoingo fxd [23:30]
BingoBoingo punkman: For Srs [23:30]
asciilifeform n00bz [23:31]
asciilifeform this is a standard usg racket: [23:31]
mircea_popescu 2. Next Generation Cyber Initiative (Next Gen Cyber) received USD$ 400.6 mn in Treasury funding in 2014 alone, which was used to employ 1`333 full-time positions including 756 agents. [23:31]
mircea_popescu shoulda just paid for cyberlockerz lmao [23:32]
asciilifeform 1) 'we MUST do N xs!!111!!!' 2) congress funds 2N 3) 'we could not afford to fill N x-s!' 4) congress funds 100N 5) 'we finally filled N/2! victory will come!' 6) 'private sector partnerz' snort coke, laugh all the way to 'skull and bones' frat reunion with N/2 worth of usd in the form of diamond suitcases. [23:32]
asciilifeform (the rest - exercise for reader) [23:33]
BingoBoingo CIA cuts coke with talcum for private sector partners? [23:34]
asciilifeform the joke is always on the public, because at no point was so much as N=1 needed for any conceivable purpose [23:34]
asciilifeform not even in the sense that every street corner 'needs' a cop, or said cop 'needs' the democratizer baton on his belt [23:35]
asciilifeform 'and that Darkode intended to use Bitcoin addresses as authentication tools' << mno. someone purporting to be 'darkode' admin proclaimed that ~some idiot webwallet~ will be used ! [23:37]
asciilifeform != 'bitcoin addresses' [23:37]
asciilifeform multiple levels of imbecility here [23:37]
asciilifeform did anyone ~really~ expect to hear about ACTUAL opposition, the kind with teeth, to usg, from usg-controlled media organs / [23:38]
asciilifeform ? [23:38]
asciilifeform expect only isises. [23:38]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski ^ [23:39]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:39]
asciilifeform ;;calc 400600000 / 1333 [23:40]
gribble 300525.131283 [23:40]
asciilifeform notbad.jpg [23:40]
asciilifeform even if half goes to cocaine for skull&bonez [23:41]
asciilifeform that's still 2x the market rate for a chimp who clicks a mouse to run 'EnCase' [23:42]
asciilifeform if not 3x [23:42]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Jaundiced Pooh update http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/i-dont-let-my-kids-watch-winnie-pooh-because-i-don-2842 [23:44]
assbot I Don’t Let My Kids Watch Winnie The Pooh Because... | ClickHole ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4xvFk ) [23:44]
asciilifeform as for mircea_popescu's observation as quoted in qntra, i will say now what i said then: [23:45]
asciilifeform the reason anyone (NOT skull&bones and paid $maxint for zero work) works for usg is precisely the same reason anyone works for zimbabwe or mali: [23:46]
asciilifeform the rent gotta be paid. [23:46]
BingoBoingo “Hey, kids, come watch the emasculated bear with the scary fingerless hands who’s never fucked a day in his life and who is obsessed with a little boy of a different species.” [23:46]
asciilifeform and it isn't like the country has much of a real economy left, to work in, to pay it with [23:46]
trinque "I'd much rather my kids watch the fuck machine named Big Bird." << oh my sides [23:47]
BingoBoingo trinque: Seriously [23:47]
BingoBoingo "He’s got that swagger. There are a lot of good lessons children can learn from a major-league pussy-crusher like Big Bird, such as the importance of confidence, courage, and friendship. " [23:47]
BingoBoingo "Winnie the Pooh, on the other hand, wouldn’t know the first thing about courage. If he were on United Airlines Flight 93, for example, not only would he have not joined the revolt against the terrorists, but he probably would’ve gotten down on his yellow knees and sucked the terrorists’ cocks one by one. “Oh, bother!” he would shrug as the al-Qaeda operatives drilled the back of his throat with their pube-slathered ding [23:48]
BingoBoingo -dongs." [23:48]
decimation asciilifeform: yes my relatively modest lifestyle needs 10-20 btc/month [23:48]
trinque http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/its-our-duty-support-troops-and-second-amendment-c-1929 [23:48]
decimation easily double or triple in east coast [23:48]
assbot It’s Our Duty To Support The Troops And The Secon... | ClickHole ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrXbPp ) [23:48]
trinque wahahahaha [23:48]
asciilifeform decimation: aha [23:49]
asciilifeform and this is just bare minimum [23:49]
* punkman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [23:49]
decimation asciilifeform: to the first approximation, we all work for the fed [23:49]
asciilifeform (anyone who thinks that this is 'serious money' should try, say, getting sick in usa) [23:49]
asciilifeform aha [23:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38550 @#64; 0.00055814 = 21.5163 BTC [+] [23:49]
trinque "...it's everyone's duty to support the troops, and also to support the Second Amendment should the day come when we need to overthrow the government and kill those troops." [23:49]
decimation lol [23:49]
decimation http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=2 < lulz [23:50]
assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrXolC ) [23:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @#64; 0.00055814 = 30.6419 BTC [+] [23:50]
decimation "My excitement was doused when I realized that the lion killer was being painted as the villain. I faced the starkest cultural contradiction I’d experienced during my five years studying in the United States." [23:50]
asciilifeform trinque: the thing is quite like what mr mold called 'crocodile humour' (unfair, imho, characterization of soviet magazine 'krokodil') - 'the powerful laughing at the powerless' [23:50]
asciilifeform or, bringing back orwell, [23:51]
asciilifeform 'Béraud used to contribute to the Fascist weekly paper Gringoire, which in its later years had become the most disgusting rag it is possible to imagine. I have seldom been so angered by anything in the press as by its cartoon when the wretched Spanish refugees streamed into France with Italian aeroplanes machine-gunning them all the way. The Spaniards were pictured as a procession of villainous-looking men, each pushing a han [23:51]
asciilifeform d-cart piled with jewellery and bags of gold. Gringoire kept up an almost continuous outcry for the suppression of the French Communist Party, but it was equally fierce against even the mildest politicians of the Left. One can get an idea of the moral level at which it conducted political controversy from the fact that it once published a cartoon showing Léon Blum in bed with his own sister. Its advertisement columns were ful [23:51]
asciilifeform l of ads for clairvoyants and books of pornography. This piece of rubbish was said to have a circulation of 500,000.' [23:51]
trinque I can see the point; in fact I made a similar one about "satirical" news shows recently [23:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @#64; 0.00053779 = 8.6315 BTC [-] [23:53]
trinque still I'll have a chuckle at my own powerlessness [23:53]
decimation yes, note that about 95% of the 'satire' is approximately 'those rednecks are so backward/stupid/racsis/dumb' [23:54]
asciilifeform 'Note also how quickly Reynolds resorts to ridicule. There is a kind of pseudosatirical humor, or what would be humor if it was in any way funny, that is an unmistakable product of his time in Moscow. I call the trope "crocodile humor" after the Soviet humor magazine, Krokodil.' [23:54]
asciilifeform ( mr mold, http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-read-and-enjoy-bogus-history.html ) [23:54]
assbot Unqualified Reservations: How to read and enjoy bogus history ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4xQrE ) [23:54]
BingoBoingo yes, note that about 95% of the 'satire' is approximately 'those rednecks are so backward/stupid/racsis/dumb' << And yet us comparatively redder necks... Don't have urban hipster problems. [23:54]
decimation yes, in general the rednecks don't give a fuck (rightly so) [23:55]
asciilifeform http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/11/president-obama-with-little-perspective.html << the canonical post [23:55]
assbot Unqualified Reservations: President Obama, with a little perspective ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4xWzg ) [23:55]
asciilifeform 'Many UR readers have had the priceless educational privilege of growing up behind the Iron Curtain. These readers will identify Professor DeLong's tone at once: it is the tone of the Soviet humor magazine Krokodil. I will take the liberty of Anglicizing, and call it "crocodile humor." Extremely educated readers may also be familiar with the Nazi variant, as found in Der Stürmer and the like. The material is different, of cou [23:55]
asciilifeform rse, but the tone is unmistakable. We'll hear a good deal more of it in the next four years.' [23:55]
asciilifeform 'Crocodile humor is the laughter of the powerful at the powerless. It is not intended to be funny. It is intended to intimidate. Those who laugh, as many do, are those who love to submerge themselves in a mob, feel its strength as theirs, chant and shake their spears as one.' [23:55]
decimation a very stark example recently is the outrage/mockery over that lion safari guy [23:56]
trinque btw, trilema is down [23:56]
trinque asciilifeform: I laugh at the gallows, not at any mob power [23:57]
trinque but it's a point well made [23:57]
asciilifeform http://loper-os.org/pub/Krokodil_1985_13.djvu << uploaded for this thread. i will let readers decide if mr mold was fair about krokodil [23:58]
decimation "A week later, my mother gathered me with nine of my siblings to explain that her uncle had been attacked but escaped with nothing more than an injured leg. The lion sucked the life out of the village: No one socialized by fires at night; no one dared stroll over to a neighbor’s homestead." [23:58]
asciilifeform perhaps he was - and had read this exact issue [23:58]
decimation "When the lion was finally killed, no one cared whether its murderer was a local person or a white trophy hunter, whether it was poached or killed legally. We danced and sang about the vanquishing of the fearsome beast and our escape from serious harm." [23:58]
asciilifeform (not necessary, strictly, to speak ru, to appreciate) [23:58]
* jordandotdev has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [23:59]
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