Forum logs for 05 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

decimation	what brings you here jordandotdev?	[00:00]
ben_vulpes	what brings you /back/, jordandotdev?	[00:01]
*	ben_vulpes is alive, barely	[00:01]
jordandotdev	I don't know it was in my autojoin channels list	[00:01]
jordandotdev	haven't logged into irccloud in a few weeks	[00:01]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: WHat ails you? Kittens? Puppies?	[00:05]
*	NewLiberty_ (~NewLibert@#64;76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:06]
decimation	ragweed?	[00:06]
ben_vulpes	an surfeit of things to do and people to do them	[00:06]
ben_vulpes	a*	[00:06]
ben_vulpes	increasingly, becoming a problem i nthe us, too. << tell me about it	[00:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25971 @#64; 0.0005145 = 13.3621 BTC [-] {4}	[00:07]
BingoBoingo	Has giant ragweed made it that far north yet?	[00:08]
BingoBoingo	https://archive.is/nrX72 << Moar streaming, Moar copyrastas	[00:08]
assbot	Major League Baseball just signed a huge deal to stream NHL content \| Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoOO75 )	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	proposed BingoBoingo boxing partner http://41.media.tumblr.com/966fea39212db8797c6799648e7d8025/tumblr_n2ea5m0ZnX1ss63vyo1_1280.jpg	[00:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DoOR2R )	[00:08]
*	BingoBoingo may lose, but would be ok with that	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	to lose is to win!	[00:09]
BingoBoingo	It really is.	[00:09]
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*	menahem (~menahem@#64;unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224763 << yeah, you really want "triphased" ie 380v	[00:12]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 02:03:47; BingoBoingo: Depends on scale? Maybe scale demands 660 volt or 1.3kilovolt?	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	which, in europe, costs the asking.	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	in south america simply can't be had period	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	i imagine in the us it costs note from stalin	[00:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you got mailz	[00:14]
asciilifeform	(broadcast!)	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	cool!	[00:14]
decimation	in us you must have 'note from local stalin' ie zoning board	[00:15]
decimation	and/or local electric monopoly	[00:15]
*	BingoBoingo waiting for mails. Doing the dance again with Uni to set up job interview. This time as customer service god. Would once again take cheapest of accomodations available for the lulz.	[00:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13031 @#64; 0.00050581 = 6.5912 BTC [-]	[00:16]
decimation	interesting europe does use 380v	[00:17]
decimation	weird	[00:17]
asciilifeform	in same places as usa - 240	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	yes. why weird ?	[00:18]
BingoBoingo	http://www.bnd.com/news/local/crime/article29918518.html << Apparently US bullets don't kill anymore? Or false flag?	[00:18]
assbot	Shiloh police investigating gunshots fired toward tavern \| Belleville News-Democrat ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ijlo9i )	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	europe uses 220 for residential, 380 optional. or otherwise you can get a 2 or 5kv industrial line.	[00:18]
decimation	mircea_popescu: because usa uses 480v	[00:18]
decimation	for industrial three-phase	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	i think the usa 480 is used in place of the 2kv myeah	[00:18]
BingoBoingo	Fuck it, I want the raw shit before it hits the transformer. I want to light my abode with an arc stretching across the room.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	not os healthy.	[00:20]
asciilifeform	http://i.imgur.com/KgCCvTC.jpg	[00:20]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DoQspk )	[00:20]
BingoBoingo	Ozone isn't as bad as the cigarettes I already smoke	[00:20]
asciilifeform	^ in the city where i wurk	[00:20]
decimation	us actually uses 240 for residential but it's delivered in two phases which are split at the panel. but it's common to use the full 240 for dryers and large equipment	[00:21]
asciilifeform	according to fishwrap, some schmuck argued with gurl. policeman busted in. he snapped, drew pistol, shot gurl, then self in the head, brainz in all directions	[00:21]
decimation	wait, schmuck or policeman?	[00:22]
asciilifeform	schmuck	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	i'm not entirely clear why the thiord phase is 160 rather than 110 in eu syste, but anywya	[00:22]
*	BingoBoingo can't wait till Fergusonversary	[00:22]
asciilifeform	possibly all the police in the county ended up at the scene. largely standing around and looking busy	[00:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the lower number is generally root-mean-square	[00:22]
asciilifeform	the higher, peak to peak sine	[00:22]
asciilifeform	this is the basic confusion of voltage oddities	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	doesn't seem to fit	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	but i'm too lazy to actually figure it, so.	[00:23]
BingoBoingo	That was a good parking garage http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/officers-won-t-face-charges-in-fatal-shooting-at-mizzou/article_5e355582-020d-564a-b61c-9348bf74194b.html	[00:23]
BingoBoingo	And further a lol only socialism can bring http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-sues-own-civil-service-commission-over-reinstatement-of/article_ff9a4c8e-9783-5d43-aefb-f52aa07180d9.html	[00:24]
assbot	St. Louis sues own Civil Service Commission over reinstatement of police officer : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoQRrK )	[00:24]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: approx., rms ~= 0.7071 * peaktopeak	[00:24]
asciilifeform	e.g., rms(170) ~= 120, the u.s. traditional	[00:24]
decimation	yeah for example in us 3-phase 480 volt, half (phase to neutral) is 240	[00:24]
decimation	which is what is split off and run to house	[00:25]
asciilifeform	(1/sqrt(2) for the curious)	[00:25]
decimation	typically ac voltage is worked in rms, because it acts like dc	[00:25]
asciilifeform	aha	[00:25]
asciilifeform	or rather, the rms value is the one which makes any sense to use in calculation of wattage	[00:25]
decimation	yes	[00:25]
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*	decimation didn't take power engineering in ee school; had other things to worry about	[00:26]
BingoBoingo	Fuck it, it has been a while http://slashdot.org/submission/4733189/dod-surrenders-large-legacy-ipv4-allocation	[00:26]
assbot	DoD Surrenders Large Legacy IPv4 Allocation - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DoR7ad )	[00:26]
decimation	my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time	[00:27]
decimation	along side 'electricians'	[00:27]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: it is about as 'shocking' as when usg 'surrendered' the 'strategic helium reserve' to smiths's detection corp. to make neutron detectors to sell back to usg/dhs	[00:27]
decimation	I found it disappointing that having an ee degree counts for nothing when designing wiring for your house	[00:28]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: it is a traditionally american type of graft, practiced enthusiastically and mostly openly since george washington	[00:28]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: You don't understand. If Assad did this the rope would be on Ebay	[00:28]
asciilifeform	l0l	[00:28]
decimation	asciilifeform: go try to pull an electrical permit from pg county on the basis of your degrees	[00:29]
asciilifeform	decimation: aha, it is a guild thing	[00:29]
asciilifeform	no apprenticeship, no permit	[00:29]
asciilifeform	go and get license to practice medicine on the basis of, whatever, nobel in biology	[00:29]
asciilifeform	same idea.	[00:29]
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mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo cool beans	[00:29]
decimation	indeed.	[00:29]
*	assbot removes voice from jordandotdev	[00:29]
BingoBoingo	my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time << In hometown I once pulled permit to fuck with wiring by saying "Hey mayor Joe, sign this"	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually in ro they let you do it.	[00:30]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: hey, in ru you can even get driver license for a benjie	[00:30]
asciilifeform	(no exams, etc)	[00:30]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Not on front page yet, but may as well submit since no one else took this low hanging tomato	[00:30]
asciilifeform	almost a 'litmus' for orc lands	[00:30]
asciilifeform	can you get license without ever having touched a steering wheel	[00:31]
decimation	asciilifeform: you should try that in pg county	[00:31]
decimation	I bet it would work	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	nah, the idea is that if you get a good enough achievement, you get auto-diploma or w/e.	[00:31]
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mircea_popescu	i got to bypass normal college entrance exams because olympiads.	[00:31]
decimation	us knows nothing like this	[00:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is the basic 'orc' mechanism - someone had the liberty to say 'this kid passes, because fuck all of you'	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	so yeah, can practice medicine on basis of nobel prize.	[00:31]
asciilifeform	in usa this is unthinkable	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	nah, it was a rule per se.	[00:32]
decimation	absolutely unthinkable	[00:32]
decimation	think of all the bureaucrats that would suddenly be powerless	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[00:32]
asciilifeform	even ~actual~ medical degree from, e.g., ussr, is specifically not recognized by usg	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	which is the very poiint of it.	[00:32]
asciilifeform	doesn't matter how many decades of practice	[00:32]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes, same for pharmacists & other medical 'trades'	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	iirc had that too. if decades of practice, valid degree by default.	[00:32]
asciilifeform	(i suppose the entrails of untermenschen differ from those of aryans, hence degree doesn't count)	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	might have been thrown out meanwhielk tho	[00:33]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-August/078072.html << l0l	[00:33]
assbot	Leak or legit ? 11/8 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IjnxBP )	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224790 << the deal is, the us keeps pretending like it's fighting and in exchange the cartels keep pretending like they're fighting too.	[00:36]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: for instance, where are the u.s. coast guard interdictors sunk by quadcopter-borne demolition charges ?	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	the idiotic non-violent behaviour of ruminants is not limited to ruminants. nobody really aims to gore the other party.	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	except maybe us, allegedly.	[00:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my (admittedly limited) understanding is that usg play-fights with ~some~ organizations, and ~actually~ interdicts others	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	maybe	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ?	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	even that got negotiated away.	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	pencildicks wanna use the heads. because dicks frangible.	[00:38]
decimation	they do when the papers say embarassing things	[00:38]
decimation	embarassing to bureaucrats	[00:38]
decimation	otherwise the bureaucrats don't give a fuck	[00:38]
*	ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...)	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224797 << if you can you must and all that. recall the discussion.	[00:39]
asciilifeform	dope from 'favourite sons' - passes. from less-favourite - interdicted, to keep the jailatron lubed, and the high priesthood supplied with coke	[00:39]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 02:24:30; asciilifeform: the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	heroin is really the perfect answer to the overpopulation problem.	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	reddit can't resist it, so...	[00:39]
asciilifeform	perfect answer to ~the other fella's~ 'overpopulation' yes	[00:39]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Cloud cleanses all historicity	[00:39]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2014#544231 << see also	[00:40]
assbot	Logged on 04-03-2014 01:44:19; asciilifeform: or mrs. thatcher's 'we need no more than 15 mil. russians. to service the pipeline.'	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	everyone's.	[00:40]
ben_vulpes	!s unable to join	[00:40]
assbot	0 results for 'unable to join' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=unable+to+join	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	the problem is simply this : as you get successful you get fat, and that fat is then... coming to expect.	[00:40]
BingoBoingo	it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ? << Much of this demographic is USG. Not in the informant sense, but USG peeps needed meanign in their lives.	[00:41]
ben_vulpes	has anyone else compiled the maxint patch and received db.log errors of "unable to join environment"?	[00:41]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: please post your debug.log	[00:41]
BingoBoingo	^	[00:42]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i have not observed this, no	[00:42]
decimation	asciilifeform: did you figure out how you are gonna 'free' the data pointed to by map?	[00:42]
asciilifeform	got 3 (well, 3 public, 1 test platform) nodez running, with patch	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1224830 << will make hfcs just fine	[00:42]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 02:36:09; BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage.	[00:42]
asciilifeform	decimation: yes	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	and besides, there's plenty stockpiled	[00:42]
asciilifeform	decimation: not ready for primetime yet	[00:42]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0W6AR1C	[00:43]
assbot	dpaste: 0W6AR1C ... ( http://bit.ly/1IjoJoM )	[00:43]
decimation	in which cpp file is the allocation stuff?	[00:43]
asciilifeform	this is actually why only prices of ~food-grade food~ rise in usa	[00:43]
asciilifeform	of the recycled food - never	[00:43]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Can make HCFS, but... less of it. Far less ears on the corn than I expect to see.	[00:43]
asciilifeform	decimation: nowhere. implicit destructor	[00:43]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: it stops here ?	[00:43]
decimation	my uni was across the river from massive hfcs plant. every day whole trains of hfcs tank cars would leave the station there	[00:44]
asciilifeform	decimation: i often watch the trains go by, where i live. often, whole train is this.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	prolefeed.	[00:44]
decimation	asciilifeform: lol no wonder 'leak'	[00:44]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i don't even see it doing anything with strace	[00:44]
ben_vulpes	i'll try to nuke some state and come back with more useful information.	[00:45]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: you mentioned an error ?	[00:45]
asciilifeform	where does it appear	[00:45]
asciilifeform	i don't see it in the paste	[00:45]
ben_vulpes	db.log, sir.	[00:46]
asciilifeform	plz post?	[00:46]
asciilifeform	(historically, i've found that fatal problems with db typically come from a dirty death)	[00:46]
ben_vulpes	http://dpaste.com/2W61D9D abridged	[00:46]
assbot	dpaste: 2W61D9D ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ijpcr6 )	[00:46]
asciilifeform	which is why bitcoin has to be prevented from crashing, at more or less any cost	[00:47]
ben_vulpes	myes, i agree.	[00:47]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: ~which~ patch did you apply ?	[00:47]
ben_vulpes	however the build i made on 7-15 with the dumpblock patch boots from the same datadir.	[00:47]
ben_vulpes	maxint_locks	[00:47]
asciilifeform	link?	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform did you check this sig ?	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	gpg: WARNING: signature digest conflict in message	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	gpg: Can't check signature: general error	[00:48]
asciilifeform	!	[00:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: hash of plaintext?	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	65865b6fdb76424c2535cf7a5f203fc88a541927e3e113db5c26a82e8a0561a8ca428ebe6611b1122f5ebc88c6bf3a3bcf1306ecfb1f4b4af29200967de43fc1	[00:49]
asciilifeform	sha512?	[00:49]
ben_vulpes	the first, asciilifeform	[00:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: does not match mine!	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no nm, false alarm.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	the hash:sha512 line got mangled.	[00:50]
asciilifeform	l0l	[00:50]
asciilifeform	what a downer	[00:51]
asciilifeform	was hoping, glass cannon fired.	[00:51]
decimation	asciilifeform: so the basic problem with the map is that it never goes out of scope?	[00:51]
asciilifeform	decimation: the point is that .clear() doesn't invoke the destructors	[00:52]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: did you find a reason why maxint wouldn't work, or is the second patch just using mircea_popescu's lock values for 'myzteeri0us reezuns'?	[00:52]
asciilifeform	this is apparently well-known to habitual users of 'boost'	[00:52]
decimation	ah, this is a feature of 'boost'?	[00:52]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: go get the first (not 'CORRECTED') version of the patch	[00:52]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: it uses maxint	[00:52]
mircea_popescu	sorry but that	[00:52]
asciilifeform	and see what it does on your box.	[00:52]
ben_vulpes	that's the one i'm using!	[00:52]
asciilifeform	ahahahahaha	[00:52]
asciilifeform	that's why yer node is dead	[00:53]
asciilifeform	guessed as much.	[00:53]
ben_vulpes	...	[00:53]
ben_vulpes	so i am to expect that patches arriving in the ML aren't even tested now?	[00:53]
asciilifeform	it was tested!	[00:53]
asciilifeform	and correction was posted minutes later	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	lol	[00:53]
asciilifeform	recall, flagship nodes were wedged	[00:53]
asciilifeform	was a very rushed thing.	[00:53]
ben_vulpes	"here's a fix"	[00:54]
ben_vulpes	"does it work?"	[00:54]
ben_vulpes	"let me see"	[00:54]
asciilifeform	see logz	[00:54]
asciilifeform	srsly, ben_vulpes managed to install the uncorrected patch in the minutes between it and the new one ??	[00:54]
ben_vulpes	plz for to slightly more detail in patchdescs.	[00:54]
decimation	oh I thought this was all about the stl map, not boost unordered map	[00:54]
asciilifeform	did not read logz?	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.	[00:54]
asciilifeform	just 'here's a patch, i'd better eat it'	[00:54]
ben_vulpes	started at ml, canonical information repository.	[00:54]
ben_vulpes	second patch contained a link to mp's "dis wat i do, yo"	[00:55]
ben_vulpes	so ofc i /try/ first patch	[00:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: he does have a point. and normally i include some 'work of literature' with these	[00:55]
asciilifeform	but world was on fire.	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	you know world is on fire to that degree pretty much weekly.	[00:55]
ben_vulpes	not even a note in correction about "lol sry first patch doesn't work"	[00:56]
asciilifeform	eh no. my nodez ran from ignition until wedge day	[00:56]
BingoBoingo	was hoping, glass cannon fired. << Might never fire	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	so you're new.	[00:56]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: if there is every any symptom of folks reading the ml but not #b-a, it might be worth considering to use the ml as something other than a file dumping ground for #b-a	[00:57]
ben_vulpes	here's your indication!	[00:57]
asciilifeform	at any rate, ben_vulpes is invited to fill in the gap and write literature for this piece	[00:57]
asciilifeform	i gotta eat. brb	[00:57]
ben_vulpes	not that i'm not infinitely indebted to you for unwedging my coracle but a hint of context'd be useful.	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	the ml process needs some reviewing. it's sort of grown organically to a point where it's troublematic.	[00:58]
ben_vulpes	say it again.	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	for one thing, most everyone but us has a stable and a testing list.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	i can appreciate the heroism of "fuck you, it's all stable". but then that comes at a cost.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	the more common cop out is "fuck you, it's all testing".	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	that stance may come with a cost to the ego.	[00:59]
ben_vulpes	"all testing" which is what we've seen to date.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	of course the logical approach would be to promote to stable ml patches that were signed	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	which is why the fuck we evern have the complexsignature scheme in place.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	plox tell me it's not one of those where everyone is waiting for me to do it first or something.	[01:02]
ben_vulpes	i tried once	[01:02]
ben_vulpes	fucked it up somehow	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	how about submiutting a "This doesn't work - don't use it" thing on the broken one	[01:03]
ben_vulpes	i'm all for barriers to entry here but this is a goddamn development obstacle course	[01:03]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: broken << sure, yeah.	[01:04]
*	ben_vulpes is struck by the eerie resemblance to $dayjaeorb here	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	"here have a pull request"	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	"does it work?"	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	"i don't know, let's test it during code review"	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	grand exaggeration.	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	nevertheless.	[01:06]
decimation	I'm still confused about this map thing. does anyone know exactly which map ascii is talking about?	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	decimation: i'm still 1.5klol behind	[01:07]
decimation	this is an infinite argument amoung developers: 'repo is for good code', 'no repo is for new code as it is being written'	[01:08]
ben_vulpes	dvcs means we can all have a repo	[01:08]
ben_vulpes	the fewer enforced constraints upon us, the more discipline with which we must act.	[01:09]
BingoBoingo	Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?	[01:09]
ben_vulpes	last release, i'd prefer. asciilifeform tends to stack his patches atop one another.	[01:10]
scoopbot_revived	No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/	[01:10]
ben_vulpes	if you're up to date on the patching, submit a patch and note its antecedents.	[01:11]
ben_vulpes	this makes for quite the testing nightmare. those interested in testing must reverse applied patches to your antecedent tip and then apply yours.	[01:11]
ben_vulpes	from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.	[01:11]
ben_vulpes	but this is bitcoin, where since time immemorial people have been shipping code that can only ever be tested in production and then standing by in amazement claiming that "nobody could have predicted!"	[01:12]
ben_vulpes	!s testing in production	[01:12]
assbot	13 results for 'testing in production' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=testing+in+production	[01:12]
trinque	hey yo, I made a lot of noise about process early on	[01:13]
trinque	then stepped back when shouted down	[01:13]
trinque	the patch signing is great, but it's not a process by itself	[01:13]
trinque	will either need tools built to support it, or will need to grab tools	[01:13]
trinque	I had a hell of a time figuring out where I should be re: patches, at least before giving up and using rotor instead.	[01:13]
ben_vulpes	i can just imagine the arguments	[01:13]
ben_vulpes	"a real contributor would write all of their own tooling to solve this"	[01:14]
ben_vulpes	"what's so hard about applying patches to your private repository?"	[01:14]
ben_vulpes	"what, you want to automate this process that keeps the tards at bay?"	[01:14]
trinque	the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"	[01:14]
trinque	then you can you know, use a power drill	[01:14]
trinque	and still work with non-dickheads	[01:14]
ben_vulpes	"what, you want to automate the nuclear power plant?"	[01:14]
trinque	hear fucking hear	[01:14]
ben_vulpes	i'm just trying to operate within these crazy boundaries. i don't have any process improvements that i'm sure wouldn't get shot down in a new york second from asciilifeform.	[01:15]
ben_vulpes	i have a repo. it has a stable and an experimental branch.	[01:16]
trinque	I bet it's in git too, you filthy swine	[01:16]
ben_vulpes	how much hell would i catch for sharing this with others?	[01:16]
ben_vulpes	of course!	[01:16]
trinque	look everything's bad. bad bad bad	[01:16]
trinque	I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table	[01:17]
trinque	gonna rebuild everything on earth? or gonna start somewhere	[01:17]
decimation	I thought ascii was okay with repos as long as it was clear which patches 'caused' the repo state	[01:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59768 @#64; 0.00050358 = 30.098 BTC [-] {3}	[01:18]
ben_vulpes	all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators"	[01:18]
ben_vulpes	he can correct me if i'm wrong.	[01:18]
decimation	plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside	[01:18]
decimation	(for signers)	[01:19]
trinque	you can do the same process better with a hierarchy of git repos	[01:19]
trinque	ffs	[01:19]
ben_vulpes	patches and signatures in the repository itself. i'd not be averse.	[01:19]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works	[01:19]
ben_vulpes	i know this.	[01:19]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: ideas welcome !	[01:20]
ben_vulpes	can we share a git repository yet?	[01:20]
ben_vulpes	i'm not critiquing your patchstacking, note.	[01:20]
*	cosmo (~cosmo@#64;unaffiliated/cosmo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:21]
ben_vulpes	i will be off to eat shortly.	[01:22]
asciilifeform	btw the db patch is not marked with antecedents because it has none (since last release)	[01:22]
*	cosmo (~cosmo@#64;unaffiliated/cosmo) has left #bitcoin-assets	[01:22]
asciilifeform	(iirc the 40000 was set prior to it)	[01:22]
ben_vulpes	of course.	[01:23]
*	ben_vulpes to food	[01:23]
asciilifeform	and what's more, this is pretty clear from reading it.	[01:23]
asciilifeform	but yes, my particular ml posts are geared toward helping the folks i know to be presently involved ( ben_vulpes, mod6, trinque, mircea_popescu, shinohai, punkman, hanbot, who else?) to build.	[01:24]
asciilifeform	rather than for everyone on the planet.	[01:24]
*	Duffer1 has quit (Quit: later)	[01:24]
trinque	all I'm grumpy about is having something structured to put the patches in, really, with branching	[01:25]
asciilifeform	trinque: please put, if it helps you	[01:25]
trinque	the patches page helps a bit, but for example seeing easily from where various experimental patches derive	[01:25]
asciilifeform	can even get your favourite version control gizmo to shit out patches	[01:25]
asciilifeform	(iirc ben_vulpes does this)	[01:25]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu your www layout somehow cuts the lines on s.nsa statement	[01:27]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:27]
asciilifeform	^ anyone else sees this?	[01:27]
asciilifeform	(graphical browser)	[01:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114645 @#64; 0.00052851 = 60.591 BTC [+] {3}	[01:29]
mod6	it does the same for me on multiple browsers too	[01:30]
asciilifeform	;;later tell ben_vulpes i have nothing against 'git', 'mercurial', etc., and even sometimes use these in civilian life, there is even somewhere ~horror~ a 'github' page with my name and some old crud, yes. but the ~canonical walk from pedigreed 0.5.3 to therealbitcoin~ has to be in .patch form!	[01:30]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:30]
asciilifeform	it is the finger pushing in the plug into the hole the night leaks through.	[01:31]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah my browser eats too (firefox)	[01:32]
*	tcrypt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[01:35]
decimation	asciilifeform: are the maps in question contained in your 'mempool zap patch'?	[01:35]
asciilifeform	decimation: they are the two maps which hold mempool state	[01:36]
asciilifeform	see the text of the patch.	[01:36]
*	decimation was seeing	[01:37]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << we're not signing because it has 'upside' now. but 1) because unsigned code is 'written by no one' and hence is a work of the great satan by default implication 2) for the archaeologists 3) for the revolutionary tribunals	[01:37]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside	[01:37]
decimation	my point is that it was made clear that anyone who signed something that fucked stuff up would suffer the negrating consequences	[01:39]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-07-2015#1200332	[01:39]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 03:22:40; asciilifeform: a mistake that is owned up to, before it sinks any ships - can perhaps be accepted as a mistake, and forgiven	[01:39]
asciilifeform	i sign xxx. the readers are then free to rate me accordingly. this is how is works, by design.	[01:40]
*	tcrypt (~tylersmit@#64;c-67-169-17-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:42]
asciilifeform	also the continuity of identity. if, for example, my patches at some point go from tiny to elephantine, from single-purpose to 'omnibus', from deadly-simple to 'wtf is that' - folks are to presume that i have been finally killed and key is in hands of hitler. and should then rate accordingly.	[01:42]
asciilifeform	this, incidentally, is an important reason why patches need to be deedboted	[01:42]
asciilifeform	(can automate this?)	[01:43]
asciilifeform	need hard ~dates~ as well as identity.	[01:43]
asciilifeform	and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc	[01:44]
asciilifeform	guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness'	[01:44]
asciilifeform	'why do i have to move these sandbags?'	[01:44]
asciilifeform	'why am i sleeping in a hole in the ground next to hole in the ground where i shat'	[01:45]
asciilifeform	'why do i have to stand here and watch the hill'	[01:45]
decimation	part of the problem with the mailing list I see is that it's difficult to reconstruct the context of patches	[01:45]
asciilifeform	perhaps mircea_popescu will add to this illustration.	[01:45]
asciilifeform	decimation: the context is typically filled in, in pedantic detail, here.	[01:46]
decimation	you usually do a good job of this	[01:46]
ben_vulpes	oh don't mind me, i'm just grumpy about a frictive process	[01:47]
decimation	I can't think of an off-the-shelf tool that would do everything mentioned above though	[01:47]
asciilifeform	the tool that man can trust to replace his brains is not yet born	[01:47]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper	[01:47]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes but you could take that argument to 'can't use computer withou seeing registers'	[01:48]
ben_vulpes	decimation: and he does, regularly	[01:48]
decimation	it all depends on what is a reasonable risk to accept	[01:48]
asciilifeform	once hygiene was invented - not using it was no longer 'reasonable'	[01:49]
trinque	git's binary db format is certainly not capable of being the canonical representation of the project	[01:49]
trinque	however, these are separate concerns	[01:49]
trinque	the ML is imo for releases, which should consist of bundles of signed patches	[01:49]
decimation	it would be nice to have a button to click: download the 'original tree' plus patches to get to this patch	[01:49]
trinque	dev is its own concern which might have other processes; you could say that a particular feature branch eventually gets flattened down into a release patch	[01:49]
decimation	for each patch	[01:49]
asciilifeform	trinque: i happen to think that throwing patches to ml, where they are all visible in chronological order, is a step forward from them living on my www	[01:50]
trinque	decimation: I was thinking this might be a web app	[01:50]
asciilifeform	and linked here	[01:50]
decimation	trinque: a web page with links to whatever deedbot spits would be sufficient	[01:50]
trinque	asciilifeform: yeah, but the patches are a tree, not a timeline	[01:50]
ben_vulpes	i am now imagining all sorts of dumb things like patches contributed in ml 'threads'	[01:50]
decimation	plus automatics to package tarball and patches	[01:50]
asciilifeform	you lot are reinventing 'version control' gadget	[01:50]
ben_vulpes	heck, it'd be a huge improvement if /patches.html rendered in chronological order	[01:51]
asciilifeform	^	[01:51]
asciilifeform	agree	[01:51]
asciilifeform	(why aren't they?)	[01:51]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell jurov pretty please	[01:51]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:51]
ben_vulpes	dunno, have asked twice now	[01:51]
decimation	yes, that's step one of 'we gotta invent version control too'	[01:51]
*	ben_vulpes would learn fossil	[01:51]
ben_vulpes	don't care, can operate anything made by humans	[01:52]
asciilifeform	i said before, will say again: if the labour of crunching the patches looms large, it is only because folks are not undergoing the greater torment of reading them	[01:52]
ben_vulpes	'tis not the patches but the whole workflow	[01:52]
asciilifeform	what other than the patches ?	[01:52]
ben_vulpes	a forest, not any particular tree	[01:52]
decimation	asciilifeform: for one thing, you would need to see the patch in context	[01:53]
decimation	which you can't get unless you have the whole repo stepped forward to the state of ap articular patch	[01:53]
asciilifeform	the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~	[01:53]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: the antecedents thing for one	[01:53]
decimation	thus, you need the whole repo state per patch	[01:53]
decimation	I don't see any way around that	[01:53]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log)	[01:53]
decimation	yes, this is version control	[01:53]
ben_vulpes	now is when i admit that i've yet to successfully compile bitcoin with rotor	[01:53]
ben_vulpes	tendon-snipped by "use your noggin, eedjit" instructions	[01:54]
ben_vulpes	tripped, fell, yelling in fury	[01:54]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: make use of the fact that i am yet alive! post errorz, logs	[01:54]
ben_vulpes	trinque: was there, saw, comiserated	[01:54]
ben_vulpes	no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out	[01:55]
ben_vulpes	CLEARLY	[01:55]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i'm tuned in for what, 12-14 h/day? write in	[01:55]
trinque	rock climbing comes to mind	[01:56]
trinque	sometimes you get a shitty handhold, but you don't immediately shout "fuck this!" and let go of the wall	[01:56]
ben_vulpes	no, for another read through and another hack at "etc. as before" will resolve this.	[01:56]
*	trinque the fatty who hasn't exercised in 6mos... talking about rock climbing...	[01:57]
ben_vulpes	i'll save my "eedjit points" for when i actually cannot resolve things myself.	[01:57]
ben_vulpes	in the meantime, know that these few hours per day i do have might be put to better use than derping of dirs.	[01:58]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: don't hesitate to publicly gripe if i omitted a step in cookbook, etc	[01:58]
ben_vulpes	note that i haven't.	[01:58]
decimation	asciilifeform: mapTransactions appears to be a std::map to me	[01:59]
asciilifeform	hm	[01:59]
asciilifeform	decimation is right	[02:00]
decimation	maybe I can't distinguish between boost and stl	[02:00]
decimation	one of the annoyances of c++ is that it is strongly typed and yet devilishly hard to tell what type	[02:00]
asciilifeform	does have the behaviour described earlier, though	[02:00]
asciilifeform	aha	[02:00]
decimation	and there is no tool (as far as I know) that automates this task	[02:00]
asciilifeform	not in the land of sunshine & kittenz, at any rate	[02:01]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: my patches are useless if folks can't build them and test	[02:01]
decimation	folks can, I've done anyway	[02:02]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223731 << ahahahahahaha	[02:02]
assbot	Logged on 04-08-2015 04:03:19; asciilifeform: also ok to use live lusers	[02:02]
decimation	my stator with eatblocks is almost synced after a month of running	[02:02]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes et al: if anyone wants to suggest how to make recipe more digestible, please write.	[02:02]
trinque	my only problem with rotor was that berkdb is a piece of shit, ignored env vars that every ball o' source should care about without its own magical flag	[02:04]
trinque	things like that though, that many pieces, sure it's going to snag on machines	[02:04]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220389 << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell.	[02:04]
assbot	Logged on 01-08-2015 04:37:34; BingoBoingo: was very slow to eat 51, but it did	[02:04]
trinque	what's needed imo is something which displays the history of decisions made, secondarily patches	[02:04]
ben_vulpes	aha trinque's decisionmachine emerges!	[02:05]
trinque	wahaha	[02:05]
trinque	that's what I as a newb trying to wade in wanted to know	[02:05]
trinque	what's the social structure here, what decisions did it fart out?	[02:05]
asciilifeform	what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ?	[02:05]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts.	[02:05]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah it matters what kind of pointers that mapTransactions is accepting	[02:05]
trinque	asciilifeform: I've read far more logs than that	[02:05]
decimation	asciilifeform: one annoyance about the logs: missing entries	[02:06]
asciilifeform	so trinque then knows the decisions	[02:06]
asciilifeform	decimation: this is also why i keep boxes going 24/7, logging	[02:06]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: still need instructions, for when script explodes with no explanation	[02:06]
asciilifeform	there is, sadly, no possible substitute for actually grasping the mechanism	[02:07]
asciilifeform	if i knew of one - would say what it is, promise.	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	mine explode at the line that fails instead of airily carrying on as though nothing happened.	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	helps, somewhat.	[02:07]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release	[02:08]
asciilifeform	(i somehow forgot this feature even existed in sh)	[02:08]
decimation	the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects	[02:09]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1MN6xHr )	[02:09]
decimation	calling clear() simply zeros the hashes but does not deallocate the objects	[02:09]
asciilifeform	aha	[02:09]
asciilifeform	i explained this earlier	[02:09]
decimation	one would need to iterate through all of them and call delete	[02:09]
asciilifeform	except have to iterate cleverly	[02:09]
decimation	yes, it would be annoying	[02:10]
asciilifeform	because deleting destroys iterator	[02:10]
asciilifeform	(forgot this, and relearned the hard way, sat with gdb for a spell)	[02:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131950 @#64; 0.00050986 = 67.276 BTC [-] {7}	[02:11]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[02:11]
decimation	I wonder if wrapping in auto_ptr would help	[02:11]
decimation	no, because it still doesn't leave scope	[02:11]
ben_vulpes	ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release << and this raises another question, shall mod6 and i now switch our build process to involve the rotor assemblage?	[02:17]
ben_vulpes	shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases?	[02:17]
ben_vulpes	i have no answers, only this hill to watch.	[02:17]
*	ben_vulpes to have a brow soothed on a sweet busom	[02:18]
*	copypaste has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[02:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72253 @#64; 0.00052755 = 38.1171 BTC [+]	[02:42]
*	TheRealJohnGalt (uid29986@#64;gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ylcbcduggnqhlxty) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:52]
BingoBoingo	I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table << What. People don't die of drink anymoar because it feels good man?	[03:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107475 @#64; 0.00053128 = 57.0993 BTC [+] {5}	[03:01]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works << Ugliest artifact. MIN_RELAY_TXFEE and MINTXFEE live in main.h and init.h when patched. very volatile line numbers	[03:01]
BingoBoingo	guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness' << It always has, at least until armor became to weighty for civilized legionaries	[03:04]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) << stator, rotor work to build a bitcoind on the "mint" ubuntu-like. Don't remember installing more dev tools after g++ for stator	[03:15]
BingoBoingo	... << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell. << I remember more than a minute, but only resorted to spring powered time after already waiting	[03:16]
BingoBoingo	what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ? << New challenges revert "seasoned" into n00b again	[03:17]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts. << And then shell changes	[03:18]
BingoBoingo	the problem appears to be http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0505 that mapTransactions consists of pointers to CTransactions objects << Far worse in PoundNation 0.9+ where classes	[03:19]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1MN6xHr )	[03:19]
BingoBoingo	shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases? << Honestly prolly. A recipe that provides ABI compatibility with 2.6.x Linux kernel is prolly fine. People can adapt to other environments.	[03:20]
BingoBoingo	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B << #ba-courts	[03:32]
deedbot-	Bad URL or network outage.	[03:32]
assbot	dpaste: 10RVK2B ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b0SL )	[03:32]
BingoBoingo	trinque ^	[03:32]
trinque	nothing's broken; there's other shit on the line	[03:32]
trinque	also html url	[03:32]
BingoBoingo	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B	[03:32]
assbot	dpaste: 10RVK2B ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b0SL )	[03:32]
BingoBoingo	http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt	[03:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b5FX )	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt	[03:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1N9b5FX )	[03:33]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[03:33]
trinque	heh ding ding	[03:33]
*	BingoBoingo may be rather intoxicated	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	But, #b-a courts	[03:33]
trinque	;;later tell felipelalli you've spoken about the idea of rating people not in the WoT; there's a great way ^	[03:35]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:35]
BingoBoingo	Got to get the condemnation in before feeding the lawyer fiat for next month's hearing	[03:35]
trinque	BingoBoingo: cool	[03:35]
BingoBoingo	Also if anyone with a bunch of power words (danielpbarron) can identify either on any relevant Bitcoin related WoT I would appreciate a heads up.	[03:38]
*	btcdrak (uid52049@#64;gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mtqwypvmdwvkaakw) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:39]
BingoBoingo	My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.	[03:40]
BingoBoingo	I might not remember why in the morning I decided tonight would be the night to file this, but I left myself copious notes.	[03:41]
*	BingoBoingo used to believe St Cliar County authorities might read this chan, now pretty sure they don't, but figure there is a lack of better public records so their doom if they don't read.	[03:42]
*	BingoBoingo notes filings issued in venues other than a #b-a deedbot will from now and from twenty years in the past be treated as suggestions rather than orders.	[03:45]
punkman	http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << the broadcast overflows and gets clipped, have to view source	[03:48]
assbot	No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4fCuM )	[03:48]
*	yamaka has quit (Quit: yamaka)	[03:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @#64; 0.000532 = 16.5984 BTC [+]	[03:52]
BingoBoingo	;;kittenlasers	[03:54]
gribble	Error: "kittenlasers" is not a valid command.	[03:54]
BingoBoingo	Seems about as true as ever http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2014#726890	[03:56]
assbot	Logged on 21-06-2014 14:11:51; moiety: are you near asciilifeform, punkman? he needs a kitten, he just hasn't fully realised it yet	[03:56]
*	knotwork_ is now known as knotwork	[04:00]
BingoBoingo	!up knotwork	[04:02]
*	assbot gives voice to knotwork	[04:02]
BingoBoingo	Parody, but should it be? http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/03/ativan-diffuser/	[04:07]
assbot	FDA Finally Approves The Ativan Diffuser for all Hospital Units \| GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGdtQ )	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	I mean if http://epmonthly.com/article/you-re-suing-me-for-what/ isn't parody	[04:08]
assbot	West Virginia Supreme Court Ruling Allows Physician Liability for Patient Addiction - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPGj4B )	[04:08]
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punkman	BingoBoingo, seems like a good way to stop docs prescribing	[04:10]
BingoBoingo	!up diametric	[04:10]
*	assbot gives voice to diametric	[04:10]
BingoBoingo	!up diana_coman	[04:10]
*	assbot gives voice to diana_coman	[04:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142681 @#64; 0.00053065 = 75.7137 BTC [-] {2}	[04:10]
BingoBoingo	punkman: Well hopefully they stop prescribing for their old coots threatening their licenses first	[04:10]
BingoBoingo	Only industry to win is Afghan	[04:10]
*	Hasimir (~hfenring@#64;unaffiliated/hasimir) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:11]
*	TheAdversary (~adversary@#64;unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:11]
*	BingoBoingo contemplates migrating to a completely suckless/cat-v desktop. Pros? Any cons?	[04:16]
BingoBoingo	Well, maybe not entirely. I may keep cwm over dwm	[04:21]
BingoBoingo	Also, how out of sync is the medical profession with the youth? http://epmonthly.com/article/palca-what/	[04:22]
assbot	The Top Ways Palcohol Abuse Could Present to the Emergency Department - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasJfk )	[04:22]
punkman	didn't USG ban that?	[04:23]
punkman	guess not	[04:24]
*	HeySteve (~Lizard__W@#64;unaffiliated/heysteve) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:24]
BingoBoingo	punkman: They tabled that motion so not banned.	[04:25]
BingoBoingo	Also alcohol bound in carbohydrates? Prolly going to be a fat sack to the shit jsut to get buzzed.	[04:26]
BingoBoingo	!up HeySteve	[04:26]
*	assbot gives voice to HeySteve	[04:26]
HeySteve	hi there	[04:26]
punkman	I remember some discussion about how much the thing would weight	[04:26]
BingoBoingo	hi HeySteve	[04:27]
BingoBoingo	punkman: Well consider a pint bottle of cheap vodka is 40% alcohol by volume, roughly the same by mass	[04:27]
BingoBoingo	And now it gets topped off with sugars that will help it clear stage 2 metabolism faster	[04:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93500 @#64; 0.000532 = 49.742 BTC [+]	[04:28]
BingoBoingo	Still to get a slight buzz one is talking at least an once or more of raw ETOH plus binders.	[04:29]
punkman	"Mark searched for powdered alcohol and it wasn't available. Over a few years, with the help of scientists around the world, Mark was able to create powdered alcohol. So he began his quest to create it. After years of research, experimentation and consultation with scientists around the world, he finally came up with powdered alcohol and called it Palcohol."	[04:31]
punkman	of course it's the first best palchohol	[04:31]
BingoBoingo	For a 110 pound teenager to reach the poisoning level and hit the ER it would still take hald a poing of the stuff, plus binders.	[04:31]
punkman	even though patent dates to 1974	[04:31]
BingoBoingo	patents are probably all on the binders, probably all borrowed from Eli Lily	[04:32]
BingoBoingo	Or leased	[04:32]
*	assbot removes voice from knotwork	[04:33]
*	BingoBoingo wonders if Byrne/Swanson et al ever wander here and see the hate I spew for far smaller problems and wonder... What if Bingo isn't just an MP sock puppet that emerges under the influence of coke?	[04:38]
shinohai	You got to stop giving the butters content there BingoBoingo	[04:39]
BingoBoingo	What if there really are a lot of #b-a people and they really are strong with hate	[04:39]
BingoBoingo	shinohai: I might have the rare opportunity to interview for a fiat job. If I get it I want a part of this window to get cheap coins.	[04:40]
*	assbot removes voice from diana_coman	[04:40]
shinohai	Ah good luck on the job.	[04:41]
shinohai	I'd like to have easy to buy coins that don't require writing my autobiography to obtain.	[04:42]
*	BingoBoingo would have to relocate bu plans to get the beapest place that only requires two months rent on top of deposit	[04:42]
shinohai	What sort of job is it BingoBoingo, may i ask/	[04:43]
BingoBoingo	shinohai: Customer service at a regional univeristy. Nothing glamorous, but given how long as it has been since I was last fiat employable.	[04:44]
shinohai	Don't feel bad, I haven't worked at a fiat job in 6 years now.	[04:45]
punkman	shinohai: retired?	[04:46]
BingoBoingo	Shhh, i'm using that line.	[04:46]
shinohai	Disability pension from an accident. Doc declared me unfit for duty so I'm not complaining.	[04:46]
shinohai	In the real world I have to use Windows	[04:47]
*	BingoBoingo entered into deedbot that condemnation for more than just "there exists" a misdemeanor charge	[04:47]
shinohai	I need a good virtual job, that reddit shit that pays $5 in btc is pointless.	[04:49]
BingoBoingo	I just hope one day to become.	[04:51]
BingoBoingo	I've already had the FBI at my front door. I'd just like to become the sort of #b-a dragon who can embrace axe time	[04:52]
shinohai	You had the FBI? You got more rep than me. I only had FCC come to make me take down my super yagi.	[04:53]
shinohai	When you are unemployed and bored, naturally you want a wifi antenna capable of covering the whole neighborhood with internet.	[04:54]
BingoBoingo	Well it was one FBI agent and one Treasury agent. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/25/a-law-enforcement-encounter-if-you-ran-a-bitcoin-related-service-before-the-thing-hit-100-you-prolly-ought-to-be-somewhat-concerned-andor-prepared/ I still have the Treasury agent's card. FBI fucker never offered his.	[04:55]
assbot	A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared \| Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1T2loNL )	[04:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110000 @#64; 0.00052667 = 57.9337 BTC [-] {4}	[04:56]
*	assbot removes voice from HeySteve	[04:57]
BingoBoingo	It was hot, I didn't let them in so we had a pow wow on the front lawn until they quit.	[04:58]
shinohai	> "the FBI agent name dropped Coindesk as a thing he reads...."	[04:59]
shinohai	AT leas he admits he has a problem.	[04:59]
BingoBoingo	But this is exactly how to handle an encounter of the Federal kind. You sweat them away and you disclose it happened.	[04:59]
BingoBoingo	To be fair qntra didn't quite exist yet.	[05:00]
BingoBoingo	http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Jen-Selter-Instagram-5.jpg	[05:00]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1T2mau4 )	[05:00]
BingoBoingo	Rome didn't burn in a day	[05:01]
shinohai	Musta been a slow crime month, they were looking to invent something.	[05:03]
BingoBoingo	The exact service they asked me about was the late BTCPak operated by DBordello. All I knew was I used it and it worked.	[05:04]
shinohai	I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader	[05:05]
shinohai	I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc.	[05:06]
punkman	girl's sister was at her parent's house for a night. parents were on vacation, so neighbor hears noise and calls the cops. cops show up banging on the door at 3am, she opens door and there were 3-4 submachineguns pointed at her.	[05:08]
punkman	I'd sue them	[05:08]
shinohai	Unfortunately, policing doesn't seem to be a service you can unsubscribe from.	[05:09]
shinohai	You just get hit with "early termination" fees. ;)	[05:09]
BingoBoingo	I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader << iirc he made it rahter clear he was shady. BTcPak had a .com site and everything I needed to believe in it at the time.	[05:12]
BingoBoingo	I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc. << I'd already met alf here. For all they know everything has the thermite.	[05:12]
shinohai	Yeah it appears he got sloppy or just didn't care. I bought btc from him several times despite the war between him and TradeFortress.	[05:13]
BingoBoingo	TradeFortress appears in retrospect to have jsut been another parasitic chicom	[05:13]
shinohai	^	[05:13]
BingoBoingo	But MPT made it way to clear in his adverts that he did "dark web stuff" to address him as a person. That would be like buying a gram of blow from the white boy dressed as a pimp.	[05:14]
shinohai	I never used inputs.io though. The whole thing of not owning your keys seemed silly to me.	[05:14]
BingoBoingo	I spent time on his coinshat thing tying to tell n00bs to not be such n00bs. Fat lot of good it did.	[05:15]
shinohai	A fool and his money .....	[05:16]
BingoBoingo	Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.	[05:17]
shinohai	He definitely had a way with people. There are peeps to this day that still defend him and inputs.	[05:20]
BingoBoingo	People really underestimate how long I can keep my hate fresh	[05:20]
shinohai	Same. I hold grudges for way too long.	[05:21]
BingoBoingo	I was trying to save precious n00bs on his site, and he fuck it. So I hate.	[05:21]
shinohai	n00bs generally go for the shiny and loud	[05:22]
shinohai	Things that require little effort, not realizing your security comes at a price.	[05:22]
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shinohai	But no: "The app developer assures us it is safe, so it must be"	[05:23]
BingoBoingo	It was an inflection point. I mean back then Eulora was jsut a jizzlet in MP's balls	[05:23]
BingoBoingo	!up afreakk	[05:23]
*	assbot gives voice to afreakk	[05:23]
BingoBoingo	1up afreakk_Z_Z_	[05:23]
BingoBoingo	!up afreakk_Z_Z_	[05:24]
*	assbot gives voice to afreakk_Z_Z_	[05:24]
shinohai	I had such enthusiasm for Eulora, I may take a fresh look at it when I have good drugs.	[05:26]
BingoBoingo	It was around then though that I realized that no amount of 1 on 1 coaching directed at unknowns could have the same impact MP had when he declared Max Keiser was a doody head.	[05:26]
BingoBoingo	I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit.	[05:26]
BingoBoingo	But first I gotta chop on my bitcoin first	[05:27]
BingoBoingo	And fuck it	[05:27]
BingoBoingo	Bed time	[05:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 426459 @#64; 0.00053309 = 227.341 BTC [+] {8}	[05:27]
shinohai	gn m8	[05:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9585 @#64; 0.0005338 = 5.1165 BTC [+] {2}	[05:37]
*	assbot removes voice from afreakk	[05:54]
*	assbot removes voice from afreakk_Z_Z_	[05:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67950 @#64; 0.00052422 = 35.6207 BTC [-] {2}	[06:00]
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punkman	youtube apparently doesn't like songs titled "Cunt Make It Up"	[06:25]
punkman	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-gvxxhcS8s	[06:27]
assbot	Tarantula Deadly Cargo - Sleaford Mods - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OPK2ju )	[06:27]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93750 @#64; 0.00052422 = 49.1456 BTC [-]	[06:33]
punkman	http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/athens-1944-britains-dirty-secret lol secret	[06:39]
assbot	Athens 1944: Britain’s dirty secret \| World news \| The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1W17506 )	[06:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130050 @#64; 0.0005355 = 69.6418 BTC [+] {6}	[06:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122250 @#64; 0.00053699 = 65.647 BTC [+] {4}	[07:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88700 @#64; 0.0005288 = 46.9046 BTC [-]	[07:44]
*	v_smith (50fff5ef@#64;gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.255.245.239) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @#64; 0.00053995 = 4.7991 BTC [+]	[07:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80400 @#64; 0.00053211 = 42.7816 BTC [-] {4}	[07:59]
punkman	http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/04/news/companies/greek-bank-shares-crash/ heh	[08:16]
assbot	Uber is worth five times Greece's banks - Aug. 4, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ825s )	[08:16]
jurov	http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=1262 kek	[08:35]
assbot	Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQ9R24 )	[08:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @#64; 0.00051947 = 20.0515 BTC [-] {2}	[08:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @#64; 0.00051943 = 56.7218 BTC [-] {3}	[08:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 336600 @#64; 0.00054208 = 182.4641 BTC [+] {5}	[08:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96550 @#64; 0.00054789 = 52.8988 BTC [+] {8}	[08:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120750 @#64; 0.00055026 = 66.4439 BTC [+]	[09:14]
mircea_popescu	!up v_smith	[09:15]
-assbot-	You voiced v_smith for 30 minutes.	[09:15]
*	assbot gives voice to v_smith	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform shouldn't, in browser that respect "font size=small".	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	doesn't, in mine, in any case.	[09:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @#64; 0.00055026 = 12.1057 BTC [+]	[09:21]
*	yamaka (~yamaka@#64;unaffiliated/yamaka) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225116 << i can see this as pretty legitimate.	[09:33]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:10:05; BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225121 << in fact few are going to actually test anything even when it is easy to do so.	[09:34]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:12:14; ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	in short we gotta restructure this pancake castle less it falls over.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use.	[09:35]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:15; ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments	[09:35]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225134 < this is uniquely impractical because a) an actually stared definition of laziness that fails to include most everyone otherwise occupied has yet to be seen and b) you'd better not dare create a system that insults the powerful.	[09:37]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:49; trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	shit on the powerless, that's what they're there fo.	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225149 << iirc that was gitHUB	[09:38]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:01; ben_vulpes: all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators"	[09:38]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << this proposition is false. similarly, going to the market has "all downside and no upside" for goers : they know for a fact they'll spend money. and who knows if the stuff they get will be any good, won't spoil en route, won't get stolen before they get home or for that matter won't sprout heads and tentacles and eat them. so let's "safely" aka stupidly round th	[09:41]
mircea_popescu	e first to 1 and the 2nd to 0, and then go 1 = 0 har har.	[09:41]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside	[09:41]
mircea_popescu	not how it works. it has A LOT of upside and virtually no downside. what ELSE are you going to do with that "money" if you don't go to the market ? and what ELSE are you going to do with that certain time and alleged expertise if not sign this stuff ?	[09:41]
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mircea_popescu	there is NOTHING else. anything where you spend your time for any other purpose is either a) masturbation, ie, the xtian "building castles on sand". whether you spend time with your kid or groom your beard or fuck the woman, it's all sensata. or else b) uranium mines.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	the only kingdom of heaven accessible to earthlinks is fucking reading and signing patches. don't want it, fine, but don't get fucking existential on me on your deathbed about how you wasted your life. yes, you have. shoulda not have.	[09:43]
*	assbot removes voice from v_smith	[09:45]
shinohai	;;ticker	[09:53]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 282.95, Best ask: 282.98, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 282.95, 24 hour volume: 8721.96406275, 24 hour low: 281.49, 24 hour high: 285.94, 24 hour vwap: None	[09:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93999 @#64; 0.00051937 = 48.8203 BTC [-] {2}	[09:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @#64; 0.00051937 = 38.1218 BTC [-]	[10:12]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69100 @#64; 0.00052279 = 36.1248 BTC [+] {3}	[10:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43811 @#64; 0.00051885 = 22.7313 BTC [-] {5}	[10:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225197 << honestly thinking about it i dun see any way to avoid involving deeds in here.	[10:35]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:43:53; asciilifeform: need hard ~dates~ as well as identity.	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	i suspect we might be belabouring under the burdens imposed by a design problem which ultimately stems from conceptual confusion.	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible.	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	the other is MANAGE. specifically - hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question.	[10:38]
mircea_popescu	i am perfectly aware that a fine answer to both these is "just grow a beard", which is to say, "know", knight style, just "what is going on" so that you can reboot the machine into a working state. and "know", mp style, just whop the moles are.	[10:39]
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mircea_popescu	this is not practicable, if for no other reason then because the very earth will end up growing a beard and that'll be bad for the climate.	[10:40]
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mircea_popescu	but in point of fact, approaching the matter conversely, a straight github repository would be just fine from the M perspective if it were doubled by duly deedbotted hashes of the plaintext. and on the other hand, irrespectively how inscrutable -r content would be just fine from a U perspective, just as long as someone can somehow convert it into a plaintext they can sit down with, follow, and never be surprised.	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	and returning to the issue, the good quality recipes are exactly equivalent to the "wot of patches" management technique : they allow people to ride on the shoulders of giants ~of their own choice~.	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	this "choose your own giant" system is definitely powerful enough to take over the world, but we still gotta figure out a way to allow such seating.	[10:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @#64; 0.00052304 = 18.0972 BTC [+]	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	and both sides gotta be done at the same time.	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	this is ultimately why foss failed. yes, it did (sort of, but originally much better than currently) allow the U seating part.	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless, because it failed to even conceptualize the M part, let alone address it, it remained open to attack which the us first probed (with its corporate tentacles, ms etc) and then crushed, with its agency teeth.	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	the reason this was possible is fortunately very easy to fix, once we understood what the hole was.	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	but in any case, a purely M wot will eventually fail, no matter how effectual or powerful it is (and it is, ftr, factually) on the financial side	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	which is why they're probing the U side atm.	[10:48]
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asciilifeform	wai wat	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	from which leaf ?	[10:52]
asciilifeform	last	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	what do you think all this "software for the people" kick is ?	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	actual, bona fide love of the multitudes ?	[10:53]
asciilifeform	ah, that	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	stalin despised the peasant, and the usg despises the scum we despise, equally if not moreso.	[10:53]
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mircea_popescu	but just as the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee of future success. that we readily crushed the "omai, bigger blocks" initiative, like all "initiatives" to date does not offer any guarantee we'll manage next time.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking.	[10:54]
asciilifeform	what can i say, go get more of me somewhere	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	mno. this is a tooling problem.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	when you have a phd assembly line, the problem is not "insufficient phds"	[10:55]
asciilifeform	i just don't see it, really	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	which part ?	[10:56]
asciilifeform	plenty of folks who aren't the least 'phd' have built, and are running, the thing	[10:56]
asciilifeform	with griping, sweating, q&a, yes - but running.	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	how is this an argument and what does it argue for ?	[10:57]
asciilifeform	that the existing process is precisely correct	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	correctness is not in dispute.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	correct it clearly is.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	it's not effectual and won't scale is the dispute.	[10:57]
asciilifeform	what precisely means 'scale' ?	[10:58]
asciilifeform	in this context	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces <	[10:58]
asciilifeform	iirc she did	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	and hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question., inseparable.	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	she eventually got a stator up ?	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	where do i ping it	[10:59]
*	asciilifeform searches log	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell hanbot so is the node up ? where ? is there a recipe-from-own-eyes somewhere ? where ?	[10:59]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[10:59]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-07-2015#1219909 << apparently not	[10:59]
assbot	Logged on 31-07-2015 21:50:52; hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez: http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build.	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	"still working" is not "she did"	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	in fact, "still working" a week later is its own precious sort of failure, srsly.	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	there's no reason for this to take a week to do.	[11:00]
asciilifeform	i did offer to help. what do i have to do, get on a plane with chalkboard in bag ?	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	no.	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	why do you think it's about you anyway ?	[11:00]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes sorta implied this	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	what does he know.	[11:00]
asciilifeform	but would like to think that it isn't, aha	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	anyway. the idea here is specifically that we want you to be in a position where the plane and chalkboard perspective doesn't loom.	[11:01]
asciilifeform	aha	[11:01]
*	asciilifeform would like this very much	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	right.	[11:01]
chetty	go to meeting?	[11:01]
asciilifeform	l0l	[11:01]
*	afreakzkkzkz has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)	[11:01]
asciilifeform	(in unrelated newz, dulap is getting blackholed again)	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	so basically, help me out here. this should be a website which maintains a code tree and a signature tree ?	[11:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes has one	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	can we just design the thing, if for no other reason then for the exercise, and then see what already exists and if we like it ?	[11:02]
asciilifeform	i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that anything that can't come out of a printer and then ocr'd back in could be the canonical representation of the path from pedigreed 0.5.3 to us	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	ok, gefuxexperiment. suppose you get hit in the head, and go into a coma.	[11:03]
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mircea_popescu	suppose you come back in 2025. suppose we've been living and thriving though this time.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	you go to the ML, and lo, there's 1`677`321 messages in there.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	how do you proceed ?	[11:04]
asciilifeform	i'd read them.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	suppose you can't read at the pace new ones get added.	[11:04]
asciilifeform	sorta doing this with the linux kernel, actually	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	there's 75`000 contributors in 2025 alone.	[11:05]
asciilifeform	aaaaand this is when i decide that the thing has brain cancer.	[11:05]
asciilifeform	like linux !	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[11:05]
asciilifeform	it is ~The~ test.	[11:05]
asciilifeform	software is not that intrinsically complicated.	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	looky here : i am a magical witch doctor that can spot where cancer starts.	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	care to hear where it started ?	[11:05]
asciilifeform	nothing needs 1`677`321 changes to go to zero kelvin !!	[11:05]
asciilifeform	aha?	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that <	[11:05]
*	SuchWow (~SuchWow@#64;unaffiliated/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:06]
asciilifeform	and i say that no work of man needs 1`677`321 changes.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	depends how it's designed.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	or 677`321 for that matter.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	in fact 7`321 is pushing it	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	reproduction is the work of man, and reproduction has TO DATE taken over 2 million strokes. today.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	will take more.	[11:07]
asciilifeform	nah it's the work of 'aunt dumb'	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	if you design your thing like reproduction works, do not be surprised.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	narciflattering but untrue.	[11:07]
*	NewLiberty_ (~NewLibert@#64;76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	anyway, to get back to it : in ordere to ever reach 0 kelvin, you must use at least some elements that provably reduce temperature.	[11:08]
*	HeySteve (~Lizard__W@#64;197.83.219.195) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:08]
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*	HeySteve (~Lizard__W@#64;unaffiliated/heysteve) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:08]
asciilifeform	this'd be the snip-snips.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	ideally.	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	they need to be supported, is what im telling you.	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	atm we're veering dangerously close to the old -dev process, where they just shat magic stones.	[11:10]
asciilifeform	so let's have idea ?	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	let's have idea!	[11:10]
asciilifeform	does mircea_popescu presently have ?	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	how would this b-a versioning system work ?	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	i do not, no.	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	i don't even fully understand wtf hole we're filing. tho i think i understand a lot better right now than 3 hours ago.	[11:11]
asciilifeform	i will add that a while ago i pictured myself in the predicament of folks trying to assemble the thing. which is why i included an unofficial flattened source with 'stator'	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	no, if you look at the history with open eyes it's quite clear we had this problem on back for a while now.	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	i swear this is a problem that's structural and should be solved, rather than just pushed against.	[11:12]
jurov	structural? ohmy mircea's going to ban something :D	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	lolwut	[11:13]
asciilifeform	it is a problem. but i must point out that most of the troubles folks have spoken of so far do not stem from it. e.g., trinque et al with their misbehaving systems.	[11:13]
jurov	but srs, i have asked for patches context, was sent to go scour the log for it	[11:14]
punkman	context?	[11:14]
asciilifeform	jurov: link?	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i bet you dollars to anything that the reason you don't get deluged in that is simply that moist folks are too interdicted by the task to even attempt, soi we don't hear about 99% of compat issues	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	jurov so you have.	[11:14]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: entirely possible	[11:14]
asciilifeform	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000100.html << example of one of my patches listing antecedents	[11:15]
assbot	[BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke! ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYWpv )	[11:15]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178271	[11:15]
assbot	Logged on 26-06-2015 21:23:15; jurov: ok ascii_field not turd , but this leaves things to be desired, too: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	and the last we heard of davout he was told exactly the same, and for all i know he's fallen in there never to be heard from again	[11:15]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1221213 << seems like he is there	[11:16]
assbot	Logged on 01-08-2015 18:51:53; davout: second kid arrived, private pilot license in progress 70% pretty much sums it up :-)	[11:16]
mircea_popescu	lemme state apropos of nothing that if you blame people for process not only are you an incredibly bad manager, but your organisation will fail, and in so doing give everyone a sigh of relief.	[11:17]
asciilifeform	won't blame people, but will say that the state of the ecosystem (i.e. what folks are building on) is in such a sad state that the only plausible solution is os standardization	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	question : what if we ran this to look more like a wiki than a mailing list ?	[11:19]
asciilifeform	something i've been loathe to suggest because guess to whom the chore will fall	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	ie, all things we do have a "current page"	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	which lists everything	[11:19]
asciilifeform	that'd be very spiffy	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	changes, in the history tree - all signed.	[11:19]
asciilifeform	esp. if it can be limited to the wot set	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	can't see why not.	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	and that page can get sub-pages	[11:20]
asciilifeform	well, one reason why possibly not is that i suspect that the ml is as quiet as it is because signing things is arduous	[11:20]
mircea_popescu	for testing, for corner cases, for whatever the shit.	[11:20]
*	punkman just realizes he forgot to post working debug_sanity revision	[11:20]
mircea_popescu	jurov what do you think about switching to mediawiki ?	[11:21]
punkman	poor jurov :/	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	not the doing. the notion.	[11:21]
asciilifeform	wiki is a neat idea, but someone will have to invent signed-edits-wiki	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	last i heard it was os php	[11:22]
punkman	dokuwiki is a better candidate	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	is it ?	[11:22]
punkman	much smaller	[11:22]
*	mircea_popescu knows nothing about these.	[11:22]
punkman	kako uses it on bitcoin-assets wiki as well	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	aha	[11:23]
jurov	i use dokuwiki for some stuff, too. and it can be authed only once per seesion like assbot	[11:24]
asciilifeform	auth is easy, but how about verify ?	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	in practice, it'd prolly be more practical to transition deedbot and its site to this job i think	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	than the ml	[11:24]
asciilifeform	as in, can i download whole thing and attribute every delta to a wot person ?	[11:24]
jurov	i see it as minor change. majur obstacle is how to sanely track stuff who released, who signed	[11:24]
jurov	mere switch to wiki won't solve it	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	jurov what if the only way to add an edit is "deedbot pastebin/soandso" ?	[11:25]
*	CheckDavid (uid14990@#64;gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxatxuslbajnrvjw) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:25]
punkman	with some metadata in diff files, we could have a script that creates a branched git repo entirely out of signed patch files	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	^	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	this is where im headed. have the syntax as a burden ON THE WRITER	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	not on the fucken reader. prolly 2/3 of our problem as is	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	so : you wanna contribute, use this and that markup, then rest is done by itself.	[11:26]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	(reason is that stuff's written once, read many times)	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl http://trilema.com/autobitcoin.sh \| gpg -verify > autobitcoin.sh. and then run that autobitcoin.sh, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them	[11:27]
assbot	Page not found on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DtYhd5 )	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	and the only time i hear of any peep from the entire shebang is when one of them has gone over and i need to come in here and start with the !rate -10	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	and i know this can be done because it's how fucking viruses work.	[11:29]
asciilifeform	the only way to guarantee that the selected set of authors adds up to a single nonconflicting merge is to only build official releases (that is, tree signed by mod6 & ben_vulpes)	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[11:30]
asciilifeform	again with the meat models. in point of fact most viruses ~don't work~	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	gimme the mechanics, lemme worry about the people.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	of course in point of fact most viruses don't work.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	yet most people to date have been killed by viruses.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	gimme the mechanics!	[11:30]
asciilifeform	as i understand, any mechanized thing really depends on patches stating their antecedents	[11:31]
jurov	is adding "applies-to" a problem?	[11:32]
asciilifeform	thinking of a modified unix-patch util that stuffs sha512 into comment preceding each file diff	[11:32]
*	diana_coman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[11:32]
asciilifeform	from patches like these, one could conceivably auto-build a dependency graph	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	jurov i dun see why it would be	[11:33]
*	diana_coman (~diana_com@#64;unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually a hashed diff / patch-util is a must irrerspective of anything else.	[11:34]
asciilifeform	i'm about to post an example	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	i have nfi how come it doesn't exist. must be a switch	[11:34]
jurov	i get it	[11:34]
jurov	though, with this in-band signalling we will limit ourselves to patch format	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to what ?	[11:37]
jurov	there may be ned to publish other signed artifacts	[11:37]
*	mircea_popescu likes, perhaps irrationally, the patch format	[11:37]
jurov	like chicken.tar.gz was	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	i didn't care for that.	[11:37]
asciilifeform	http://dpaste.com/0MWBGJ1 << original	[11:37]
assbot	dpaste: 0MWBGJ1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpniDc )	[11:37]
asciilifeform	http://dpaste.com/04XFDSF << augmented	[11:37]
assbot	dpaste: 04XFDSF ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ipnja8 )	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	in fact, if you ask diana_coman, she recently delivered a bot for eulora client, and i had her make me diffs.	[11:37]
asciilifeform	jurov: 'chicken' was a dire, necessary evil	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	i dunno how you folks understand code otherwise, might be that i'm rusty or inept, but anyway.	[11:38]
asciilifeform	because the alternative was a multi-megabyte pile of minus signs	[11:38]
*	DanielBTC (~DanielBTC@#64;unaffiliated/danielbtc) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not even sure the pile was worse.	[11:38]
jurov	diana_coman: you actually tried to apply the diffs?	[11:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12165 @#64; 0.00052304 = 6.3628 BTC [+]	[11:38]
*	williamdunne has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	~I~ applied the diffs.	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	with her there holding my hand	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	took an hour.	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	and yes, i applied, by hand, compiled, etc.	[11:39]
*	assbot gives voice to diana_coman	[11:39]
jurov	yes. far cry from just running some .sh	[11:39]
diana_coman	yes jurov, I did verify it, applied it etc	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	jurov sure.	[11:40]
asciilifeform	see the dpastes	[11:40]
asciilifeform	imho this would correct a fundamental flaw in the whole diff thing	[11:40]
diana_coman	it took me half an hour only, but yeah, I did not have to re-read the code or anything	[11:40]
asciilifeform	in that, having a bag of patches in hand, you could magically coalesce them into a dependency graph	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how do they handle the "armored"/asciifucks issue ?	[11:40]
jurov	by running gpg --decrypt on clearsigned text	[11:41]
asciilifeform	afaik this was never an issue with patches (they were attached as binaries)	[11:41]
jurov	no other way	[11:41]
asciilifeform	and detach-signed	[11:41]
asciilifeform	same as a tarball would be	[11:41]
asciilifeform	it was an issue with message text on ml	[11:41]
asciilifeform	hence the 'never, ever include a patch in message text' thing.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	kk	[11:42]
jurov	i like it. to be able to remove files without dumping whole contents, patch should be patched, too	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	^	[11:43]
asciilifeform	i will add, if it isn't obvious, that patches like the one i suggested will apply on a standard unix patch util	[11:43]
asciilifeform	jurov: it was not a thing before, because there was no way to guarantee that the contents are what the patch author thought they were	[11:43]
asciilifeform	but now - can.	[11:43]
asciilifeform	and thereby can safely snip a file after stating its checksum	[11:43]
asciilifeform	but now both sides of the patch (author and applier) will need the custom util.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	this all makes me feel a lot better about my life expectancy.	[11:44]
asciilifeform	now, the above is not a magic pill! somebody will still need to write the graph traverser	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[11:44]
asciilifeform	but it is a necessary start.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	and the documentation.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	curious what ben_vulpes, for instance, might add	[11:45]
asciilifeform	incidentally it is not necessary to alter the unix patch util. the checksums can be added by a proggy which eats standard patch file and the 'before' tree, and shits - this	[11:46]
asciilifeform	prolly 3 lines of perl	[11:46]
shinohai	My node isn't connected to anyone again today sigh	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	!rate diana_coman 4 Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder.	[11:47]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1c7400936902f591	[11:47]
asciilifeform	shinohai: blackholed ?	[11:47]
asciilifeform	i.e.,	[11:47]
asciilifeform	accepted connection 104.236.95.174:49539	[11:47]
asciilifeform	accepted connection 178.18.90.41:42497	[11:47]
asciilifeform	socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0	[11:47]
asciilifeform	disconnecting node 62.210.127.113:34814	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.diana_coman.4:f03c096e55ea00704ee7e685df39127f5c24a5bfc36808528b00217764e046d2	[11:47]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 4 with note: Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder.	[11:47]
asciilifeform	shinohai: this is a persistent problem, and i have every reason to expect that it will get worse.	[11:48]
shinohai	T_T	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	shinohai please run this : cat debug.log \| grep -c "no message in first 60" and report result	[11:49]
shinohai	Also getting 11db cannot allocate memory errors	[11:49]
*	asciilifeform marvelling that no one, apparently, ever noticed the glaring omission in 'patch'	[11:49]
shinohai	kk 1 sec	[11:49]
shinohai	returns 0 xD	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	then it's not that. prolly gotta pursue the memory issue.	[11:50]
shinohai	Watching tail though I see exactly what asciilifeform describes	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	... what gives ?	[11:53]
shinohai	Where it attempts to connect but disconnects (no message in first 60 sec)	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	then why is grep returning 0. one or the other neh ?	[11:54]
shinohai	Could be I just started this one, the one I am already running returns 28670932	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	advertised ip ?	[11:56]
shinohai	The one I just started has advertised ip	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	but the other one no ?	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	well... the network is pretty noisy.	[11:57]
shinohai	nope	[11:57]
shinohai	I can see 8333 from ny1.hashbang.sh tho	[11:58]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[12:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70143 @#64; 0.00054298 = 38.0862 BTC [+] {4}	[12:01]
trinque	mircea_popescu \| asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph << I'm in; seems like yet another static site generator job	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	mostly, yes.	[12:02]
trinque	and I can modify deedbot- however it helps; he already statically generates his site, perhaps he could interpret metadata in certain deeds and take action	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	this readily enforces the two restraings we want enforced, which is : a) wot restricted and b) signed permanently.	[12:03]
shinohai	asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: this is what I get http://dpaste.com/1889469	[12:03]
assbot	dpaste: 1889469 ... ( http://bit.ly/1gKcYyN )	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	shinohai this is "normal"	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	in the sense of retarded but commonly seen	[12:03]
jurov	mircea_popescu: deedbot has currently even less friendly archives than mailman	[12:04]
shinohai	But not connecting to anyone at all isn't	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	hm.	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	jurov i wasn't proposing they be used as is.	[12:04]
jurov	email was chosed because it allows for structured text + attachments. not sure how to do it with deedbot	[12:06]
trinque	to date I've tried to keep it simple, hence the deeds are plain textfiles linked to by a single index	[12:06]
trinque	no reason I can't add some html nav around that a la dpaste	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	bears more thinking	[12:06]
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jurov	yes the signed email + extra signed attachs is a kludge	[12:07]
jurov	there must be better system to put together few files + text that already has crypto or can be extended easily	[12:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49485 @#64; 0.00053671 = 26.5591 BTC [-]	[12:11]
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trinque	the way git handles this is that "everything's a Blob" then "some Blobs are a Tree which points to n Blobs which may be Trees or Blobs"	[12:11]
trinque	you could implement the data structures needed for VCS atop deedbot in a similar manner	[12:12]
trinque	one thing that would be needed on my end is a saner URL for a given deed; it needs to just be the hash	[12:12]
trinque	easily done	[12:12]
jurov	how would it look for user? got a .txt, a .patch , now what?	[12:13]
trinque	so, git does it this way: there are Blobs, which are a k/v pair of which the k is the hash of the v; blobs can be one of: Reference, Commit, Tree, Blob	[12:15]
jurov	(currently on has to clearsign the .txt, make detached armored sig for .patch and use non-braindamaged email client to put them together)	[12:15]
jurov	i am not a git	[12:16]
jurov	:D	[12:16]
trinque	I probably missed one, and they also divide into further classifications, ref for example can be a tag, branch, stash	[12:16]
trinque	hehe	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	jurov word. there must be.	[12:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125000 @#64; 0.00053491 = 66.8638 BTC [-] {3}	[12:18]
trinque	so if you say did the structured data in the "blobs" as sexps you could sign that text easily	[12:18]
trinque	and then maybe deedbot farts out additional nav controls on the html versions of these interesting deeds with a particular sexp in them	[12:19]
trinque	anyhow one thought.	[12:19]
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punkman	drowning in rube goldberg?	[12:20]
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trinque	implementing a VCS isn't rocket science; it's just a matter of getting the abstractions right	[12:23]
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punkman	I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS.	[12:24]
trinque	sure, and that's another thought	[12:25]
trinque	wrap git or mercurial or something in hooks which enforce the constraints desired	[12:26]
trinque	the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons	[12:27]
*	Adlai mumbles something about darcs	[12:29]
trinque	Adlai: it does that?	[12:29]
trinque	I mean they all can, but well?	[12:29]
Adlai	ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc	[12:30]
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trinque	sounds worth investigating	[12:32]
*	trinque wanders off for coffee	[12:33]
punkman	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-05/china-to-set-up-security-offices-inside-internet-companies	[12:42]
assbot	China to Set Up ‘Security Offices’ Inside Internet Companies - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpuQpx )	[12:42]
punkman	I imagine they already have people in those companies, why make it official?	[12:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47950 @#64; 0.00054691 = 26.2243 BTC [+]	[13:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @#64; 0.00054189 = 23.518 BTC [-]	[13:24]
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ben_vulpes	ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc << how so? i've never touched darcs, the question comes from ignorance.	[13:29]
Adlai	git signs blobs, darcs signs patches	[13:29]
ben_vulpes	git produces patches tho--	[13:29]
ben_vulpes	oh	[13:29]
ben_vulpes	interdasting	[13:30]
*	ben_vulpes is not terrifically familiar with the git gpg integration	[13:30]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225499 << i know, apologies all around	[13:30]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 12:35:39; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225130 << instead of imagining the arguments you two'd better quote them. THAT much of a process we do have, and it's both explicitly stated and in daily implicit visible use.	[13:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @#64; 0.00052804 = 57.926 BTC [-] {5}	[13:32]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: my coracle's been wedged at 367850 since last night, even with the new db locks config. last 500 lines of debug.log: http://dpaste.com/1XB21DH.txt , please let me know if more would be useful	[13:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DuoN65 )	[13:38]
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BingoBoingo	!up ascii_field	[14:14]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[14:14]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225805 << this is what i refer to as 'blackholed'	[14:14]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 15:04:31; shinohai: But not connecting to anyone at all isn't	[14:14]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225798 << how do i embed ~unmutilatable~ binaries in deedbot? uuencode ?!!!	[14:15]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 15:03:16; mircea_popescu: the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make.	[14:15]
ascii_field	if someone was wondering how the system could ever be made ~less~ n00b-friendly - this'd be it..	[14:15]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225833 << can do this now!	[14:17]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 15:24:59; punkman: I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS.	[14:17]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell pete_dushenski You should see it when the DDoS abates	[14:17]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[14:17]
punkman	ascii_field, I'm doing it	[14:17]
punkman	but I'm guessing as to patch order, branches, etc	[14:18]
ben_vulpes	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-03/for-his-next-trick-barefoot-genius-aims-to-end-broker-rip-offs	[14:25]
assbot	For His Next Trick, Barefoot Genius Aims to End Broker Rip-Offs - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQRv1Q )	[14:25]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: the debug.log fragment you pasted does not reveal the cause of your jam	[14:27]
ben_vulpes	i was hoping you'd contradict my own conclusions, but alas.	[14:28]
danielpbarron	500 lines isn't enough	[14:28]
ben_vulpes	let me restart the thing and grab the whole bootup log for inspection	[14:30]
BingoBoingo	https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009920.html << lol	[14:32]
assbot	[bitcoin-dev] "A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit"--new research paper suggests ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQSsXP )	[14:32]
danielpbarron	BingoBoingo, I don't recognize those names you mentioned earlier	[14:33]
BingoBoingo	It's for the best	[14:33]
BingoBoingo	non-people	[14:33]
ascii_field	philippinos, snore.	[14:34]
punkman	a question that future patch submitters might have: should I patch against last release or most active branch?	[14:36]
ascii_field	punkman: depends on who you think is 'longest chain'	[14:37]
ascii_field	if wrong about this, will have to merge by hand, and there is no going around this	[14:37]
jurov	if a big problem, you can always rebase and rerelease	[14:38]
ben_vulpes	what was the rollover patch called?	[14:39]
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punkman	rollover?	[14:41]
punkman	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000144.html this won't truncate your debug.log unless you tell it to	[14:42]
assbot	[BTC-dev] fixed debug_sanity ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQU7N8 )	[14:42]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:44]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform http://cascadianhacker.com/wedged.log	[14:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OQUQ0S )	[14:45]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[14:46]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[14:46]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: .txt plz	[14:46]
ascii_field	(or www browser barfs)	[14:46]
*	williamdunne has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[14:47]
ben_vulpes	haw	[14:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94900 @#64; 0.00054409 = 51.6341 BTC [+] {3}	[14:49]
ben_vulpes	Bitcoin version 0.5.4-beta	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	Default data directory /home/ec2-user/.bitcoin	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	Loading addresses...	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	dbenv.open strLogDir=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/db.log	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	Loaded 39823 addresses	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	addresses 26456ms	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	Loading block index...	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	LoadBlockIndex(): hashBestChain=00000000000000000dfc height=367850	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	block index 63562ms	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	Loading wallet...	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	nFileVersion = 50400	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	fGenerateBitcoins = 0	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	nTransactionFee = 0	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	fMinimizeToTray = 0	[14:50]
punkman	why do you have 40k addresses?	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	fMinimizeOnClose = 0	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	fUseProxy = 0	[14:50]
ben_vulpes	addrProxy = 127.0.0.1:9050	[14:50]
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danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225757 << i like the deedbot idea; that is submit patches as deeds. The mailing list has stuff i need to decrypt/verify anyway, and I'm not a big fan of email in general	[14:51]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 14:45:46; mircea_popescu: also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet.	[14:51]
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ben_vulpes	meep. sorry.	[14:52]
danielpbarron	I also like the idea of a webpage (maybe a wiki) that organizes it all, linking to the deeded content of course	[14:52]
ben_vulpes	punkman: hell if i know	[14:53]
punkman	a standalone Ada wallet would be an interesting project	[14:53]
ascii_field	punkman: perhaps if you ask mircea_popescu nicely, he'll give you a copy	[14:54]
punkman	I grabbed a random Ada book last week, it was awful. need to look again	[14:54]
gernika	punkman - I have the Ada 95 reference manual. Seems thorough. Also you can print out a copy of the GNAT User's Guide at Kinkos - which I've also done. Haven't actually made any progress in reading it but... Seems good by looking at TOC.	[14:59]
mod6	;;later tell hanbot ping me when you get a chance plz. thx!	[15:00]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[15:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66900 @#64; 0.00054662 = 36.5689 BTC [+]	[15:03]
punkman	gernika, my beard being short, I'm looking for something closer to "Ada for dummies"	[15:03]
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punkman	I'm also tempted to go with Ada 2005 so I can have all teh unicodez	[15:04]
ascii_field	'Ada for software engineers', M. Ben-Ari.	[15:05]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: has warez?	[15:05]
ascii_field	'Data structures with Ada.', Michael B. Feldman.	[15:05]
ascii_field	'Ada for programmers.', Eric W. Olsen.	[15:06]
ascii_field	'Ada 95: The Lovelace Tutorial.' David A. Wheeler << probably the most n00bish	[15:07]
ascii_field	ben_vulpes: nope, i haven't digitized copies of these. but doesn't hurt to look around	[15:07]
ascii_field	anyone seriously into the subject will also want the 'standard' and 'rationale' documents.	[15:08]
punkman	http://kto.web.elte.hu/oktatas/ada/books/ase.pdf 'Ada for software engineers'	[15:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OQYHuR )	[15:08]
ascii_field	neato	[15:09]
ascii_field	actually, the best book i have so far is in ru	[15:09]
ascii_field	written by, of all people, fella claiming to be former lead programmer of ukraine central bank...	[15:09]
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BingoBoingo	!up ascii_field	[15:17]
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punkman	"Like any contract, the Ada Referebce Manual is written in very precise language, and the term ‘language lawyer’ is often used for people who are experts at interpreting the document."	[15:22]
ascii_field	it has chapter, verse, line numbers	[15:22]
ascii_field	like talmud.	[15:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41613 @#64; 0.00053474 = 22.2521 BTC [-]	[15:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83950 @#64; 0.00054068 = 45.3901 BTC [+]	[15:48]
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mod6	so I've looked at deedbot.org	[15:53]
mod6	and I like the site, and the bitchin motif	[15:53]
mod6	i also like how it lines up the signatures to a specific hash horizontally	[15:53]
shinohai	deedbot.org rules	[15:53]
mod6	however	[15:53]
mod6	if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work:	[15:54]
mod6	http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000136.html	[15:54]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp )	[15:54]
mod6	now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.	[15:55]
trinque	mod6: heh I did the site with a nod to the foundation's	[15:55]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:55]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:55]
trinque	mod6: as for how deedbot- might be used, not clearly defined yet	[15:55]
mod6	trinque: i think it's awesome :]	[15:55]
ascii_field	clearsigning MUTILATES	[15:55]
trinque	just one spitball of many	[15:55]
mod6	^	[15:55]
mod6	ascii_field has it	[15:55]
trinque	does it have to be clear?	[15:55]
ascii_field	for deedbot!	[15:55]
trinque	I could change the thing	[15:55]
mod6	will deedbot take 2 parameters, a non-signed .patch file and a detached signature and somehow colese them?	[15:56]
ascii_field	who thought this was a good idea, and why	[15:56]
trinque	thought gpg could wad a sig and a file together in other ways than clearsign	[15:56]
ascii_field	even worse, imho, in every respect, than ml	[15:56]
punkman	you can also --armor --sign instead of clearsign	[15:56]
mod6	ascii_field: im simply referring to the converstaion from this morning	[15:56]
ascii_field	deedbot as adjunct to ml - works	[15:56]
trinque	I gotta depart to a meeting, but to summarize I have no strong opinion that deedbot is the solution	[15:56]
ascii_field	but as replacement?!	[15:56]
trinque	was merely saying I am willing to put in the work should deedbot- be some part of it	[15:57]
ben_vulpes	we're just exploring the possibility space here	[15:57]
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ben_vulpes	!up n6	[15:57]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[15:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108450 @#64; 0.00053321 = 57.8266 BTC [-] {3}	[15:58]
danielpbarron	can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ?	[15:58]
mod6	i've been thinking alot about the ML issues that have been brought up lately. and lastnight I bascially came up with: Mailing list A: for all submissions testing or experimental or otherwise.. Mailing list B: for accepted, signed and released patches, in order. And jurov's /patch.html (or w/e its called) should draw from there.	[15:58]
trinque	danielpbarron: punkman has it; --armor --sign	[15:58]
mod6	danielpbarron: we're not talking about encryed docs	[15:58]
trinque	and then yeah decrypt on the other end	[15:58]
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trinque	danielpbarron: yeah but you can do a sig in similar fashion	[15:58]
trinque	where it's a wad o... what, base64?	[15:58]
trinque	I don't remember	[15:58]
trinque	er last was for mod6	[15:58]
*	trinque departs!	[15:58]
n6	thanks ben_vulpes, can anyone help me make a call file for http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-07-2015#1202737 ? never made one and keep coming up with errors.	[15:58]
assbot	Logged on 15-07-2015 19:25:10; solrodar: http://178.62.64.22/dot-filter.py << instructions at top	[15:59]
punkman	yeah it's a base64 blob that includes file and signature when you --sign --armor	[15:59]
danielpbarron	what about this: gzip the patch and clearsign that	[15:59]
*	jurov gasps	[15:59]
mod6	see, we could uu encode stuff or gzip stuff or do any number of things, but then it's far less readable "as-is"	[16:00]
ben_vulpes	n6: all of my noodling on the topic resides at http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph/	[16:00]
assbot	Index of /bitcoin/callgraph/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1gXRYVd )	[16:00]
mod6	and i thought that was kinda one of the requirements.	[16:00]
mod6	"easy to read"	[16:00]
ben_vulpes	mod6: not that my browser will do anything with the patch files but download them.	[16:00]
mod6	that's fine, but what if I just wanna look through the submitted patches in deedbot? i now have to do a bunch of extra gyrations to even see the text	[16:01]
ben_vulpes	there's always /patches.html...	[16:01]
punkman	I just mentioned it as an easy way to make deeds out of patches	[16:02]
danielpbarron	deedbot isn't where you go to read it all; it's where you go to verify it all	[16:02]
mod6	<+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable.	[16:02]
mod6	what about for unsigned new submissions?	[16:02]
punkman	(or deeds out of binaries)	[16:02]
mod6	and there are 75`000 people and 50 submissions per day?	[16:03]
mod6	could be scripted i suppose... but just sayin	[16:03]
punkman	wat	[16:03]
mod6	punkman: taking it back to the earlier premise.	[16:03]
mod6	are you guys following what I'm saying?	[16:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53705 @#64; 0.00054068 = 29.0372 BTC [+]	[16:05]
mod6	maybe not. lol.	[16:07]
n6	ben_vulpes: still having an issue getting "bitcoin/src/serialize.h:963:10: error: class member cannot be redeclared" even with your callgraph.sh, what am I missing?	[16:07]
punkman	mod6, "unsigned new submissions" < wat	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	n6 i have no idea, buddy	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	n6: are you running on os x?	[16:08]
n6	yes.	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	ah well	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	you're on your own brave soul	[16:08]
mod6	punkman: <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable. <+mod6> what about for unsigned new submissions?	[16:09]
mod6	how does anything get into /patch.html ?	[16:09]
ben_vulpes	i recommend spinning up an aws gentoo instance. i've given up on macos support for this project.	[16:09]
mod6	it first must be signed.	[16:09]
n6	I will try that, thanks.	[16:09]
ben_vulpes	n6: i understand that this is not a welcome message.	[16:09]
mod6	and /patch.html imho should not draw off of just any submission, only signed submissions from ben, myself and the author.	[16:09]
mod6	it still doesn't help me view a base64 encoded submission to the deedbot	[16:10]
ben_vulpes	n6: d'you plan to get into the wot as well?	[16:10]
n6	ben_vulpes: what more welcoming then support for free?	[16:10]
n6	I'm already in the wot just have to auth.	[16:10]
ben_vulpes	!gettrust n6	[16:10]
assbot	Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user n6: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=ben_vulpes&to=n6 \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/n6/	[16:10]
mod6	anyway, the main point i wanted to bring up re: clearsigned patches into deedbot was this email: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000136.html	[16:10]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp )	[16:10]
mod6	as you can see clearsign mangles the text: - --- a/rotor.sh .... - -../dist/configure	[16:11]
mod6	gnupg tries to escape lines that begin with a dash	[16:11]
jurov	mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it	[16:11]
mod6	s/tries to//	[16:11]
ben_vulpes	!rate n6 1 crusty blood	[16:11]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/596b688700f85b60	[16:11]
mod6	jurov: to me thats an extra step... is that what we're all prepared to live with?	[16:12]
n6	thanks, I'm going to try and get this to work and come back	[16:12]
ben_vulpes	!v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.n6.1:e630ded4962e532d208a74d782ea9c37451b0858c31fb4280fd9f2c7ddce525e	[16:12]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for n6 with note: crusty blood	[16:12]
jurov	mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step	[16:13]
mod6	i'd like to make something better, this is for sure. just whatever it is, i wanna know that it is better, not just sideways.	[16:13]
punkman	30 pages in, "Ada for Software Engineers", the code examples look gnarly	[16:13]
jurov	turdatron needs to take bundles of patch + manifest (at least, can be any other files aside from patches)	[16:13]
jurov	and metadata what the patch applies on	[16:13]
jurov	question is, how to do this all better?	[16:14]
mod6	good question. not sure that i have any useful answers here at this time.	[16:14]
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mod6	other than what I already talked about and that's not really better either.	[16:14]
mod6	i guess im just trying to picture in my mind how i would have to use, step by step, the proposed system every single day.	[16:15]
mod6	and if those proposed steps are easier/better than what we currently hvae.	[16:16]
jurov	maybe we end up all using a script to put the package together and sign it.. but in this case it can just output an email message to be just fed to sendmail	[16:16]
jurov	or if someone come up with less turdy format than MIME	[16:17]
punkman	I wouldn't mind something like http://gogs.io/ but too much css I guess	[16:17]
assbot	Gogs: Go Git Service - A painless self-hosted Git service ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTzyTP )	[16:17]
mod6	<+jurov> mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step << i think partly ... my general concern is my understanding of how this proposed system would work. this concern is based on the fact that when the current system was proposed, i had the oppertunity to speak out and put in my say in the matter, but I didn't understand it so I don't think I objected very much. and now look at where we are.	[16:20]
mod6	so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.	[16:20]
ascii_field	colour me thick, but i still don't get where the 'crisis' is	[16:21]
jurov	so you still not understand what's this all about?	[16:21]
ascii_field	yes, i agree with mircea_popescu re: how patches should embed hash of antecedent file. and imho this solves whatever problem exists (that is, enables it to be solved locally by any participant, in the style he prefers)	[16:22]
ascii_field	while preserving the simultaneously total and minimal representation of .patch	[16:23]
mod6	I think I need to see a concrete example of this - end to end. I just can't picutre it mentally.	[16:24]
jurov	yes that one is solved. but deedbot can be used only if clearsigned and without any accompanying text	[16:24]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:25]
jurov	mod6 you have seen alf's patch with embedded sha512 example?	[16:25]
jurov	!up ascii_field	[16:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:25]
jurov	if yes we can start from there	[16:26]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225713 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225715	[16:26]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 14:37:50; asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0MWBGJ1 << original	[16:26]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 14:37:56; asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/04XFDSF << augmented	[16:26]
*	mod6 looks	[16:26]
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jurov	!up fromphuctor	[16:27]
*	assbot gives voice to fromphuctor	[16:27]
mod6	ok and that sha512 hash is of the file /before/ the changes were made resulting in the patch?	[16:27]
mod6	(the unchanged original file)	[16:27]
jurov	yes	[16:27]
mod6	ok. will diff take that and run it and ignore that first line with the hash?	[16:27]
*	fromphuctor has quit (Client Quit)	[16:28]
jurov	no, must roll ou our won diff/patch	[16:28]
jurov	*roll out	[16:28]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[16:28]
ascii_field	mod6: it will	[16:28]
ascii_field	because comment	[16:28]
mod6	it does now, or it will because we must now reinvent diff/patch ?	[16:28]
ascii_field	what it won't do is take the hash into account when patching	[16:28]
ascii_field	that requires either modified 'patch' util, or wrapped in perl etc	[16:29]
jurov	but it's universally usable to (1) determine what version patch applies to (2) allows to remove files without listing whole contents	[16:29]
ascii_field	^	[16:29]
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mod6	ok forget that im still confused for a moment because im dumb, and maybe I'll just get it in a few minutes...	[16:30]
ascii_field	this magic pill lets you take a bag of patches, and determine in what order they apply	[16:30]
mod6	how do we reconsile this with the patches already created/applied	[16:30]
mod6	?	[16:30]
ascii_field	by scripted brute force if necessary	[16:30]
ascii_field	mod6: easy. i take mine and sign'em again	[16:30]
ascii_field	and the rest of us, same.	[16:30]
ascii_field	not so many that this is a mega-labour	[16:30]
punkman	or can start from next release	[16:30]
ascii_field	aha.	[16:30]
mod6	so everyone else from the beginning of time (october 24th 2014) must resign all patches?	[16:30]
ascii_field	also works	[16:30]
ascii_field	all what, 25 of'em	[16:31]
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*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[16:32]
mod6	i need to re-read all of the logs from today and have a nice long "think" about it.	[16:33]
ben_vulpes	poor mod6 can't catch a break around here	[16:33]
hanbot	(am starting today's logs myself)	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	mod6 sounds liek a plan	[16:34]
ascii_field	mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine	[16:35]
ascii_field	mod6: in the interest of maintaining the 'tree from beginning of the world' thing	[16:35]
ascii_field	which a robotic graphatron could then walk	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	good idea this	[16:36]
mod6	i kinda like what i heard about that earlier.	[16:38]
mod6	i gotta think about it a bit	[16:39]
trinque	putting the information to construct the tree in the patches themselves has a nice decentralized nature to it	[16:39]
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mod6	<+ascii_field> mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine << ok no rush here. lemme just re-read and think about all of these things for a bit.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225198 << blessfully, i don't think we're short these, by any sort of conceivable measure. nobody has that quality*count. we were however becoming a little short in organizing their effort, but i think that's resolving.	[16:44]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:44:32; asciilifeform: and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225210 << apparently not. emulate me, will you!	[16:45]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:48:02; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper	[16:45]
ascii_field	l0l	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	the "rocks fall, everyone dies" of ai : "write mp emulator"	[16:47]
shinohai	mod6: debian wen fine again: Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u2 (2015-07-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux	[16:48]
shinohai	I saved the hated Ubuntu for last	[16:48]
*	ascii_field played privately with a mircea_popescu (from log linez) shannonizer	[16:48]
ascii_field	it was lulzy	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	anything good ?	[16:48]
ascii_field	esp when set against one made from me	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	post the bash thereof lol	[16:48]
ascii_field	nah i get to see enough meat shannonizing in real life	[16:49]
ascii_field	doubt anyone wants this	[16:49]
ascii_field	but if yes - then will, at some point	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	why do you think people read reddit ? it's got shannonappeal.	[16:49]
ascii_field	also this is pretty easy to write and good exercise for n00bz	[16:49]
mod6	shinohai: excellent work! thank you. these are the first steps in a series of similar things needed.	[16:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15440 @#64; 0.0005467 = 8.441 BTC [+] {6}	[16:50]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225245 << you're sounding like you expect this to be exceptional ? how the fuck often do i rebuild anything! what's more often than "once per machinbe" ? on ce per season ? recompile every election november ? once per pair of underwear ?	[16:55]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:53:37; asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~	[16:56]
mircea_popescu	this incidentally would be a pretty great equivalent of old style personality cult bs. all os must contain picture of stalin. once he dies, computing takes day off while everyone recompiles new picture in. for everything.	[16:58]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[16:59]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:59]
BingoBoingo	Oh, the many ways and times qntra suffers the slings and arrows of DDoS. People just can't stop endorsing us this way	[16:59]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: vs when tree updates	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	bestkoreaos	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo aww, again ?	[16:59]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: you just described glibc, l0l	[16:59]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Yeah been going on for a couple hours nao	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	"fixed".	[17:00]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field lulzy is lulzy.	[17:00]
*	Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225256 << me recalls when people noticed the "make directory dev (mkdir dev). navigate to it (cd dev)" snippet.	[17:02]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 04:55:30; ben_vulpes: no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	it IS USEFUL.	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	in the strictly limited but ever present sense that its presence prevents its absence from being harmful.	[17:02]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu is a fan of knuth's 'literate programming' ?	[17:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119200 @#64; 0.0005489 = 65.4289 BTC [+] {6}	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	i'm a fan of knuth generally.	[17:03]
ascii_field	http://www.literateprogramming.com << apparently exists !	[17:03]
assbot	Literate Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRlDJB )	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	he may be argued with it, but so far without exception the "you'll come to agree, because you're smart and i'm right" controlled to date.	[17:03]
ascii_field	nah that's dijkstra	[17:03]
ascii_field	but sure.	[17:04]
mircea_popescu	same person.	[17:04]
ascii_field	l0l	[17:04]
ascii_field	shared beard.	[17:04]
mircea_popescu	i wonder how they dereference it.	[17:04]
mircea_popescu	actually i have nfi why knuth's book isn't the basis of cs in the us.	[17:06]
mircea_popescu	much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really	[17:06]
ascii_field	http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.S;h=45e6e854a5d2a4c3f26af264dfce56379d401425;hb=HEAD << example of literate programming alive	[17:06]
assbot	192.168.0.150 Git - jonesforth.git/blob - jonesforth.S ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRm4Uk )	[17:06]
ascii_field	(my personal favourite. mirror - original vanished)	[17:06]
ascii_field	my imaginary bitcoin book was to be a work of 'literate programming'	[17:07]
ascii_field	for example.	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	actually it's perfect.	[17:07]
*	ascii_field sadly pines for the book	[17:07]
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*	mircea_popescu briefly considers mirroring it, then notices it's actually histed on author's own domain, desists.	[17:10]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: http://git.annexia.org/?p=jonesforth.git;a=blob;f=jonesforth.f;h=5c1309574ae1165195a43250c19c822ab8681671;hb=HEAD << the other half of it	[17:10]
assbot	192.168.0.150 Git - jonesforth.git/blob - jonesforth.f ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRmBWh )	[17:10]
ascii_field	and yes, it runs	[17:10]
ascii_field	and is a complete os, in a sense	[17:10]
ascii_field	cople kb.	[17:10]
ascii_field	*couple-a	[17:10]
mircea_popescu	looks pretty hairshirty.	[17:10]
ascii_field	but not really. 'simple as possible, not simpler'	[17:11]
ascii_field	there's a fella somewhere who wrote an 'arm' version, if any aficionados of that arch are reading this	[17:11]
shinohai	I'm none too thrilled with my foray into arm since bitcoin	[17:11]
ascii_field	shinohai: why?	[17:12]
shinohai	I'm still not at a level where I can cross-compile. So I have a rather useless box atm.	[17:12]
ascii_field	shinohai: you have 'rotor' built, yes ?	[17:13]
shinohai	yup	[17:13]
shinohai	binary still doesn't run on mah pogo so I did something wrong.	[17:13]
ascii_field	didja set the arch to arm ?	[17:14]
shinohai	I need to see someone's build log that doesn't mind sharing, I'm sire it will click what I'm not changing.	[17:14]
ascii_field	i guess this is one more thing i will have to post.	[17:15]
shinohai	Once I do figure out this necromancy, I am sure I will kick myself for the next 2-3 years for failing to see it.	[17:16]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226167 << i personally prefer landau	[17:16]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 20:06:27; mircea_popescu: much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	for russian kids.	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	let each culture have its own fucking buildings already. what is this globalisation.	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225356 << this actually sounds sane.	[17:19]
ascii_field	where is the zimbabwean landau, aha	[17:19]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 06:40:49; BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.	[17:19]
ascii_field	btw there is a pretty fine british translation	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field zimbabwean may not be a thing.	[17:20]
ascii_field	and didn't mircea_popescu eat it in french l0l	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	and sure, there is.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	and yes, i did.	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	i'm not proposing it be forbidden or anything. just, i give localised first choice.	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	i made italian slavegirl read d.c. and english slavegirl read shakespeare not the other way around. why not ? works either way after all, by definition.	[17:22]
*	ascii_field pictures the gurlz lapping up feynman	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225397 ,<< "from around the world".	[17:23]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 07:32:13; punkman: even though patent dates to 1974	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	at least it wasn't built with the ground up with getting laid in mind, so i guess there is that.	[17:24]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:29]
diametric	!up ascii_field	[17:31]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:31]
Michail1	midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius_ mixdio	[17:31]
Michail1	midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius_ mixdio	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field mike_c and whomever else concerned : http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/#comment-114967 ?	[17:31]
assbot	No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRpgiH )	[17:31]
ascii_field	appears to display	[17:32]
mike_c	ah, good news. fixed for me.	[17:32]
ascii_field	ty mircea_popescu	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	does it also verify ?	[17:32]
ascii_field	nope.	[17:34]
mike_c	html and pgp don't mix	[17:34]
ascii_field	Dear MP,	[17:34]
ascii_field	gpg: invalid armor header:	[17:34]
ascii_field	gpg: Signature made Tue Aug 4 23:13:13 2015 EDT using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7	[17:34]
ascii_field	gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy "	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225448 << get out of here. back in 2012 i was in a chan just like this one (or so it seemed), surrounded by idiots who blessfully got pushed out of bitcoiun by their own mentally stunted disability, but who at the time BELIEVED.	[17:35]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 08:17:50; BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	like they believe in global warming and fuck knows what else.	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	as a substitute for a personality.	[17:36]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field, mircea_popescu: didn't hanbot teach us about the dangers of html and gpg earlier?	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field it's one or the other it seems. either i <pre> it which makes it verify, but then linmes are fixed length. or else iu don't, which lets you read it, but ascii gets fucked.	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	the pill for this would be : never ever sign a cleartext with lines longer than the signature.	[17:37]
mike_c	or add some css for pre	[17:37]
trinque	could do that derpy overflow-x: auto in css at the cost of an eyesore scrollbar	[17:37]
trinque	yeah	[17:37]
ascii_field	ugh	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	i suppose i could add a style markup to the pre tag.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	anyone know right off what it is ?	[17:38]
trinque	mircea_popescu: that one I said, if you want a scrollbar	[17:38]
trinque	overflow-x: auto;	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	"style=overflow-x:auto;" ?	[17:38]
*	ascii_field blissfully ignorant of this matter	[17:38]
ben_vulpes	trinque: continuing our windowing and emacs sojurn: https://github.com/ch11ng/exwm	[17:38]
trinque	style="overflow-x: auto"	[17:38]
assbot	ch11ng/exwm · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRq0UZ )	[17:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62800 @#64; 0.00053312 = 33.4799 BTC [-]	[17:38]
mike_c	sheesh, put a semicolon at the end :)	[17:38]
*	trixbutt is now known as trixisowned	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	isn't there a style that makes it wrap ?	[17:39]
trinque	mike_c: not required by the spec	[17:39]
mike_c	really? hm. spec is lazy.	[17:39]
mike_c	mircea_popescu: yeah, linewrap.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	can i plox has usable format ty	[17:40]
mike_c	if you throw it up with the pre I can play with it and give you good css?	[17:40]
trinque	there's white-space: pre-wrap in css3	[17:40]
trinque	mircea_popescu: ^	[17:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @#64; 0.00053312 = 3.1987 BTC [-]	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy "	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	in victory radio news, the thing doesn't work anymore full stop.	[17:41]
trinque	https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/white-space << options	[17:41]
assbot	white-space - CSS \| MDN ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqr1w )	[17:41]
trinque	mike_c \| really? hm. spec is lazy. << yup, everything in the browser has the squish of trying to be maximally permissive	[17:43]
mike_c	i concur, still doesn't verify. overflow-x did make the scrollbar appear all the way at bottom, still sucks. white-space: pre-wrap also works, and makes the line breaks look even worse, but content is at least all visible.	[17:44]
mike_c	Feels like a line-ending problem. dpaste the original?	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	still bad signature.	[17:45]
mike_c	yeah	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	deedbot- http://dpaste.com/2Y7KA8E.txt	[17:45]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[17:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqRFj )	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	original works.	[17:45]
BingoBoingo	https://i.imgur.com/5BPo3BK.jpg	[17:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KRqSZV )	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	there was an issue where pre created a new line. why ? FUCK YOU FOR USING THINGS THATS WHY	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	but even with that fixed, still broken	[17:46]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo: ew	[17:46]
mike_c	I think mpex method is perhaps best method. Just show the text and link to verifiable text blob.	[17:46]
ben_vulpes	^^	[17:46]
BingoBoingo	ascii_field: Only so many nuggets I can do when qntra under DDoS	[17:46]
trinque	a literal shit-heel...	[17:47]
ascii_field	mike_c, ben_vulpes: sad that text has to appear twice	[17:47]
trinque	the wonders in life, man	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	yeah i guess so mike_c	[17:47]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo: i still don't get it, why was it necessary to shit in a bath tub ?	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field it's reddit baiting.	[17:48]
BingoBoingo	ascii_field: Because OP was "galaxy" sized	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	people used to try and suck producer cock to "be a tv star"	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	now they sit on couch try to "invent viral memes"	[17:48]
ascii_field	iirc they make custom 'american' toilets for this	[17:48]
ascii_field	somebody linked one earlier	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	mike_c anyway ima link to deedbot just as soon as it pops.	[17:49]
ascii_field	(photo of reinforced mega-toilet)	[17:49]
BingoBoingo	ascii_field: Installing toilet is work. Acquiring toilet costs money that could be spent on Beetus fuel.	[17:50]
mike_c	technology aside, that is still good news. Perhaps 2015 will be the year!	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	ya srsly.	[17:50]
ben_vulpes	ascii_field: embrace the webshit. iframe to signed thinger!	[17:51]
ascii_field	ick	[17:51]
ben_vulpes	embrace the shit	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225462 << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ?	[17:51]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 08:27:03; BingoBoingo: I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit.	[17:51]
*	ascii_field actually wrote a web thing!	[17:51]
ben_vulpes	swallow the shit	[17:51]
ben_vulpes	love the shit	[17:51]
ascii_field	(phuctor)	[17:51]
*	ben_vulpes goes looking for shitposts	[17:51]
BingoBoingo	... << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ? Hard to stick in portable machine. Also problem isn't machine. Problem is cg isn't available as source or for OpenBDSM	[17:52]
ben_vulpes	But thoughtful Pointsman, anticipating this, has been sending laxative pills with her meals. Now her intestines whine softly, and she feels shit begin to slide down and out. He kneels with his arms up holding the rich cape. A dark turd appears out the crevice, out of the absolute darkness between her white buttocks. He spreads his knees, awkwardly, until he can feel the leather of her boots. He leans forward to surround the hot turd	[17:52]
ben_vulpes	with his lips, sucking on it tenderly, licking along its lower side . . . he is thinking, he’s sorry, he can’t help it, thinking of a Negro’s penis, yes he knows it abrogates part of the conditions set, but it will not be denied, the image of a brute African who will make him behave. . . . The stink of shit floods his nose, gathering him, surrounding. It is the smell of Passchendaele, of the Salient. Mixed with the mud, and the	[17:52]
ben_vulpes	putrefaction of corpses, it was the sovereign smell of their first meeting, and her emblem. The turd slides into his mouth, down to his gullet. He gags, but bravely clamps his teeth shut. Bread that would only have floated in porcelain waters somewhere, unseen, untasted—risen now and baked in the bitter intestinal Oven to bread we know, bread that’s light as domestic comfort, secret as death in bed . . . Spasms in his throat	[17:52]
ben_vulpes	continue. The pain is terrible. With his tongue he mashes shit against the roof of his mouth and begins to chew, thickly now, the only sound in the room. . . .	[17:52]
ben_vulpes	(Pynchon)	[17:52]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo that's a point huh.	[17:53]
BingoBoingo	Turn out Eulora isn't completely Open Source yet.	[17:53]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: When I get time though I'll try chopping Eulora to remove the parts that depend on it and see if it works	[17:54]
ascii_field	aha, this is why i haven't tried it yet personally	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	honestly i don't even recall how or why cg is in there. mebbe chetty can shed a light	[17:54]
BingoBoingo	It's probably there for shader effects	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	you can definitely turn those off.	[17:55]
BingoBoingo	Best way to turn off is with key	[17:55]
BingoBoingo	Also Crystal space uses cg at least until its next release	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	hey, i'd be all for a special "all open" client if you feel like doing this	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	do it, get some pickaxes to dig up the euloran lands	[17:57]
BingoBoingo	I'll give it a try	[17:57]
BingoBoingo	If anyone else better equipped for task wants to attempt They would probably require less time.	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	no shortage of tasks.	[17:59]
shinohai	;;later tell mod6 Ubuntu builds fine for me w/ image provided.	[17:59]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[17:59]
mod6	w00t	[18:00]
mod6	thanks shinohai	[18:00]
shinohai	nw, vm building was a bit slow but I chalk it up to Ubuntu bloat.	[18:00]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:02]
mod6	if anyone else wants to try here are the steps: http://dpaste.com/1Q96E5N.txt	[18:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KRsLWh )	[18:02]
shinohai	!up ascii_field	[18:02]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:02]
ascii_field	since my broadcast was mentioned: any interest in 'rotolinux' ?	[18:02]
mod6	please ensure that you are running x86_64 by doing `uname -a`	[18:02]
gernika	^^	[18:02]
mod6	if NOT, if you're running i686 or i386, replace auto.sh with: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000071.html	[18:03]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Modified Portatronic build script for building statically linked 32bit bitcoind: auto.sh (v0.0.5-32) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRsTVK )	[18:03]
shinohai	32-bit and Winblowze coming soon (tm)	[18:03]
*	mod6 slaps shinohai with a large unix manual	[18:03]
shinohai	I spent all day yesterday getting slapped by Windows users asking questions about gaming.	[18:04]
ascii_field	i'd sooner port to 'amiga'	[18:04]
ascii_field	but - to each his own	[18:04]
shinohai	I refuse to buy a Windows box just to play a game.	[18:04]
mod6	i had a neighbor once who showed me his amiga. never stopped raving about it.	[18:05]
mod6	this was like in '06... it still worked. shrug	[18:05]
shinohai	I still have my childhood Tandy	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225836 < word./	[18:08]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 15:27:45; trinque: the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225862 << explain to me why do you need magic numbers.	[18:10]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 17:15:51; ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225798 << how do i embed ~unmutilatable~ binaries in deedbot? uuencode ?!!!	[18:10]
ascii_field	?	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	what do you suppose a binary is ?	[18:10]
ascii_field	an unmutilated string of bitz	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	all binaries are magic numbers.	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	they do not belong in the code pot.	[18:10]
ascii_field	can't post unmutilated - can't sign	[18:11]
ascii_field	just the way it is.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	i dun follow	[18:11]
ascii_field	didn't we just have this thread ?	[18:12]
ascii_field	re: s.nsa broadcast?	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	maybe i had an aneurism or something.	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	but that's not a bin oh you mean text-as-binary ?	[18:12]
ascii_field	retarded code rapes text because it can	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	well calling it "binary" doesn't protect it you know, just confuses me. but i see what you mean.	[18:13]
ascii_field	'binary' is what folks call strings of bits that will die if raped	[18:13]
ascii_field	hence why i insist that a turdatron must support 'binaries'	[18:13]
ascii_field	because enough with the rape plz	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	feminist.	[18:13]
ascii_field	'i meant what i said, and i said what i meant, a walrus is certain a hundred percent'. go, rape, but that wasn't what i signed wazzit.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	this conversation is hateful of male values and triggers me.	[18:14]
ascii_field	can always sign uuncode, l0l	[18:15]
ascii_field	*uuencode	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225877 << im not reading that, but did you find the actual thesis ?	[18:15]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 17:32:26; BingoBoingo: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009920.html << lol	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	on the face seems more of gavin-the-retard having "studies" and "Economists agree" and "industreew support" bs "if we say it then it becomes a thing because magic is magic" stuff	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field could also just be gents and not rape the text.	[18:17]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Gavin doesn't know how mining works or is a liar.	[18:17]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: gpg rapes.	[18:17]
ascii_field	mail client rapes	[18:17]
ascii_field	sendmail rapes	[18:17]
ascii_field	etc.	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	mail yes, but i hope to see it disused eventually. gpg does not ? afaik ?	[18:17]
ascii_field	gpg does!	[18:17]
ascii_field	see the dashes in my broadcast, for example.	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	sigh	[18:18]
ascii_field	(they get 'escaped')	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	well it needs the dashes!	[18:18]
shinohai	What potential rape may look like: https://i.imgur.com/LcKy6eQ.jpg	[18:18]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1gKWGWF )	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	they only get escaped if leading line!	[18:18]
ascii_field	this breaks code. (not even speaking of binaries, e.g., tarball)	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	shinohai nice tits.	[18:18]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: regardless, can't rely on arbitrary string staying intact	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	sad but true huh.	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	-r ?	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	i HATE not being able to read shit.	[18:19]
ascii_field	-r ?	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	armorer	[18:21]
*	rdblck (~rdblck@#64;201.75.2.192) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:21]
ascii_field	-a	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	heh right you are.	[18:22]
jurov	maybe we and up patching gpg to scan for unmodified content from the beginning and for signature(s) from the end	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2015-statement/ << more or less fixed, i guess	[18:23]
jurov	*end up	[18:23]
assbot	No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4fCuM )	[18:23]
jurov	no mutilation needed	[18:23]
ascii_field	jurov: that still leaves the other rapists	[18:25]
ascii_field	mail clients, filters, etc	[18:25]
ascii_field	even paste buffers on some systems	[18:25]
jurov	only if you insist.	[18:26]
jurov	my mail client (kmail) allows to turn off wordwrap and html by two clicks.	[18:27]
jurov	never had any problem	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225953 << me is dutifully considering	[18:27]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 18:54:25; mod6: if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work:	[18:27]
ascii_field	jurov: i use squirrelmail, and - afaik - mutilatory	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field traditionally it must be observed, the problem of rapists has been resolved by controling the social group you hang out with, not by altering male anatomy.	[18:28]
ascii_field	i don't see why i oughta custom gpg, custom squirrelmail, custom shoelaces	[18:29]
jurov	you alread have custom squirrelmail	[18:29]
jurov	just not customized by you	[18:29]
jurov	:D	[18:30]
ascii_field	custom as in opening up rusted shut things that i haven't adjusted for many years	[18:30]
*	NewLiberty_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[18:30]
ascii_field	verily this is a dumb idea	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	zing.	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	"already customized!" alfie.	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	you have any idea what all the tim swansons of the world gotta do wrt rusted shut things they've not adjusted for years ?	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	you complainin' bout squirrelmail, what's ferrocranium to say ?	[18:31]
ascii_field	wai wat	[18:31]
ascii_field	and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely?	[18:32]
ascii_field	no thx.	[18:32]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[18:32]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[18:32]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	molci i susi.	[18:32]
ascii_field	i'll switch to ebcdc first.	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated.	[18:33]
ascii_field	*ebcdic	[18:33]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.	[18:33]
ascii_field	TEXT FILES GET RAPED	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	for lack of a better example, might consider http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/foxy_eulora_craftbottar.gz (included manifest), which does in fact do this, if crudely.	[18:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KRvxeh )	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field binary text, gimme a break.	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	a magical distillate whereby i can read it and programs don't rape it. binartytext.	[18:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101699 @#64; 0.00053762 = 54.6754 BTC [+] {3}	[18:34]
ascii_field	aka gpg --deatch-sig	[18:34]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226427 << now this is interesting. have a link?	[18:35]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 21:32:44; ascii_field: and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely?	[18:35]
ascii_field	jurov: no link. just experience.	[18:35]
ascii_field	but i promise to post a sample next time it pops up	[18:36]
jurov	cuz i never noticed in 10 or so years married to xfree86/xorg	[18:36]
ascii_field	jurov: possibly this is a bug triggered by locale	[18:36]
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jurov	i do have locale set	[18:37]
ascii_field	you have 100% latin!	[18:37]
jurov	% ls nonex	[18:37]
jurov	ls: nie je možné pristupovať k nonex: Adresár alebo súbor neexistuje	[18:37]
jurov	^ 100%latin	[18:38]
ascii_field	latin.	[18:38]
jurov	but anyway, we're talking about code, where do you want to use 8th bit?	[18:38]
*	Tykling has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[18:39]
*	trixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[18:39]
ascii_field	jurov: nowhere in the payload proper	[18:40]
ascii_field	but reflecting on the fact that i don't always get 'out' of paste buffer what comes 'in'.	[18:40]
jurov	ok, will wait for the occassion.	[18:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14980 @#64; 0.00053404 = 7.9999 BTC [-]	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225969 < me. to read.	[18:43]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 18:56:41; ascii_field: who thought this was a good idea, and why	[18:43]
ascii_field	can't read patches now ?	[18:44]
ascii_field	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150710/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option_e35906e7432550b0cadd46bbc253258d39a8c210.patch << loads in all browsers	[18:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KRwenZ )	[18:44]
ascii_field	they're all entirely readable. what am i missing ?	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226007 < wut ?!	[18:45]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 19:03:14; mod6: what about for unsigned new submissions?	[18:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 208550 @#64; 0.00052796 = 110.1061 BTC [-] {7}	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field the objection to ml as is was not that individual patches are unreadable.	[18:46]
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*	rdblck (~rdblck@#64;201.75.2.192) has left #bitcoin-assets	[18:46]
ascii_field	what, then ?	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	well i don't feel equal to the task of restating the whole conversation as ongoing for past weeks / peaked today. i'll just say : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225521	[18:48]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 13:37:54; mircea_popescu: there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible.	[18:48]
ascii_field	imho embedding antecedents solves.	[18:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @#64; 0.00053807 = 22.5451 BTC [+] {4}	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	if it stays as a ml, becomes a wiki, somehow otherwise including deedbot or not changes i do not care per se	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	just a pile of options that were considered	[18:48]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated. << i didn't understand that this problem could be side-stepped with gpg --decrypt	[18:48]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	but i guess the consensus is pointing towards, ml gets restated with antecedents, trinque writes a grapher for it all ?	[18:50]
jurov	so, ml can stay as is (without filename mutilation)?	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	well, grapher+verifier ideally.	[18:50]
ascii_field	that was my original suggestion earlier, yes	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	i have no objections to this	[18:50]
ascii_field	it would make it possible for, e.g., hanbot, to view the 'patchchain' cleanly	[18:51]
ascii_field	and ask meaningful questions about branches	[18:51]
jurov	plus it will detect (and optionally show decoded )clearsigned patches?	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	^	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	and ideally, have it spit out a "final version" with regressions accessible through some procedure (clicking)	[18:51]
ascii_field	jurov: the problem is that gpg 'escaping' is not a reversible operation	[18:51]
ascii_field	in that it is impossible for the machine to determine that a particular '- -' is to be transformed into a '-' or not	[18:52]
*	mike_c has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	you just remove "- " from all lines :D	[18:52]
*	yamaka has quit (Quit: yamaka)	[18:52]
ascii_field	the 'escape' operation is thermodynamically lossy.	[18:52]
mod6	ascii_field: so does `gpg --decrypt` work for that as danielpbarron & jurov said?	[18:52]
ascii_field	mod6; decrypt ?	[18:52]
mod6	they said ...	[18:52]
*	mod6 scrolls back	[18:52]
ascii_field	it solves nothing	[18:53]
*	yamaka (~yamaka@#64;unaffiliated/yamaka) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:53]
jurov	well, if gpg can't undo it and it causes the patch to fail...then it fails.	[18:53]
jurov	sender will have to resend with detached sig	[18:53]
mod6	<+danielpbarron> can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ? <+jurov> mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it	[18:53]
ascii_field	'undoes'	[18:53]
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ascii_field	will destroy certain non-escaped text.	[18:53]
ascii_field	as described earlier.	[18:53]
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mod6	so mutilates	[18:54]
ascii_field	aha.	[18:54]
mod6	ok then we're settled.	[18:54]
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mod6	i guess for me thats the one big thing, we can't have any mutilation of the patch files. or we'll just find ourselves banging our heads all the time.	[18:55]
ascii_field	^^	[18:55]
*	yamaka (~yamaka@#64;unaffiliated/yamaka) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:55]
jurov	it computes shasums of everything submitted already	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	i just tried this... it doesn't mutilate on encrypt/decrypt	[18:55]
jurov	can check easily	[18:55]
mod6	and honestly, this is no poor reflection on deedbot. the thing is cool.	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	ie, - came out as - and - - as - -	[18:56]
ascii_field	that's because the output of 'encrypt' is a base64 turd that isn't expected to coexist with text the way a clearsigned string is.	[18:57]
jurov	as with xorg buffer, i'm curious, will see if anyone submits something with valid sig that gpg fails to unescape.	[18:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @#64; 0.00052531 = 6.724 BTC [-]	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field right	[18:58]
mod6	ah, encrypt/decrypt, but we want clearsign or am i misunderstanding this?	[18:58]
ascii_field	mod6: somebody wanted 'clearsigned patches'	[18:59]
jurov	mod6 decrypt on clearsigned file	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226063 << a man who burned himself with the soup...	[18:59]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.	[18:59]
ascii_field	and i was trying to explain that this is deeply broken	[18:59]
jurov	will spew out the original	[18:59]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226063 << a man who burned himself with the soup... << lol indeed	[18:59]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	tbh an equivalent of the callgraph / mike's wot graph but for PATCHES would not be amiss.	[19:02]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[19:03]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[19:03]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:03]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: to be clear, that is precisely what i had in mind when suggested the hash embed thing	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	have all the wot listed on the side. have all the patches AS A TREE listed next to it. have relations from wot tyo patches.	[19:03]
ascii_field	aha.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	this would help me immensely.	[19:03]
jurov	can enlist trinque or anyone's help with graphics	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	so basically ml as restateds + grapher in the sense of the above, svg (clickable) is really the definitive word on this ?	[19:04]
jurov	clickable svg gasp :D	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	already sounds like a quantum leap tbh	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	jurov wut!	[19:05]
ascii_field	this is precisely what i had in mind, aha	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	mod6 ^ give that a long think.	[19:05]
ascii_field	(when i said 'graph walker' earlier today)	[19:06]
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mircea_popescu	trinque and with a bonus "click here for this patch" and "click here for this patch + all its antecedents" spew.	[19:06]
ascii_field	'show who signed this'	[19:07]
ascii_field	'load all sigs'	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	epic.	[19:07]
ascii_field	first needs the chicken, err, the embedded antecedent indicators	[19:07]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 ^ give that a long think. << i like this idea with the wot graph + source patches as a tree next to it so relations can be easily seen & drilled into.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	i knew this was a tooling problem mostly. pretty much 99% of all that's needed is already here.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	just need to amass the pile into a sane shape	[19:08]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> already sounds like a quantum leap tbh << it is.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	and opbvciously, with a checkbox "allow this antecedent"	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	pruning the tree of all ulteriors that depend on an unclicked patch	[19:10]
jurov	and "launch missiles"	[19:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @#64; 0.00055024 = 8.6938 BTC [+] {2}	[19:11]
mod6	<+jurov> mod6 decrypt on clearsigned file << this indeed works. created file A.txt. copied A.txt to B.txt and subtracted some lines. created a unified diff of both. clearsigned the diff -- which is mutilated for escaped hyphens. upon `gpg --decrypt` of the clearsigned output patch file, i get the same hash as the pre-clearsigned hash file.	[19:12]
mod6	*patch file.	[19:17]
mod6	main difference seems to be... we would now need to enter our password every time to verify the signature as opposed to just --verify	[19:18]
ascii_field	no-go.	[19:18]
mod6	oh actually, im wrong about that.	[19:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47037 @#64; 0.00055025 = 25.8821 BTC [+] {5}	[19:19]
mod6	it doesn't ask. derp.	[19:19]
ascii_field	this is still procrustean	[19:19]
mod6	was gonna say. "how does that makes sense?!"	[19:19]
mod6	had to look that up.	[19:21]
mod6	ok well, yah	[19:21]
jurov	;;ud procrustean	[19:24]
gribble	Google found nothing.	[19:24]
mod6	ok so another question i have about the deedbot way.. would be: if we submit a patch to deedbot, how do we tie a message to that same submission? say we wanna be like "Hey, this thing is neat!" Will it need to reference anothe deedbot submission or does the patch have to come after our statment in the clearsigned message?	[19:25]
jurov	you can just submit both at once	[19:25]
*	SuchWow has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[19:26]
jurov	or otherwise suggest to deedbot they're related	[19:26]
ascii_field	throw message prior to the first 'diff ....' in the ,patch	[19:26]
ascii_field	but for the record i think this 'cram all in one file' thing is braindamaged.	[19:26]
mod6	im not ciked about that either.	[19:27]
ascii_field	braindamaged and entirely unnecessary.	[19:27]
ascii_field	throw hashes in deedbot, sure. or even uuencodes. but to make it a canonical repository of anything else, is a microscope-hammer.	[19:28]
ascii_field	or perhaps more of a hammer-microscope.	[19:28]
jurov	having an option to tell deedbot "present these together on one page" should suffice	[19:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @#64; 0.00052119 = 29.786 BTC [-] {4}	[19:31]
mod6	but then you could just have detached sigs?	[19:31]
scoopbot_revived	Pity the lil' goldbuggers. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/05/pity-the-lil-goldbuggers/	[19:31]
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mod6	that would be the way to do it as I said earlier. but not sure if that's really feasable.	[19:32]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:33]
mod6	!up ascii_field	[19:33]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:33]
ascii_field	detached sigs are the way to go, imho.	[19:33]
ascii_field	esp since >1 person can sign a patch	[19:33]
ascii_field	there is not a 1:1 mapping between sigs & patches	[19:34]
ascii_field	storing the same text >1 time is retarded	[19:34]
ascii_field	dealing with mutilations - likewise	[19:34]
mod6	well and probably error prone if he/she has to cut the upper text out just to get down to "bare" patch to re-clearsign and submit to deedbot... could miss line, something bad.	[19:35]
mod6	etc	[19:35]
ascii_field	aha.	[19:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @#64; 0.0005516 = 22.1743 BTC [+] {3}	[19:35]
ascii_field	http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/detail/government-ruins-the-dishwasher-again << lol (via pete_dushenski)	[19:37]
assbot	Government Ruins the Dishwasher (Again) : Anything Peaceful : Foundation for Economic Education ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqt8UN )	[19:37]
ascii_field	'Welcome to regulated America, where once fabulous consumer inventions like refrigerators, freezers, washing machines, and dishwashers have been reduced to a barely functioning state. The reasons are always the same: 1) phosphorous-free detergent, 2) a fetish with saving water, 3) weaker motors that use less electricity, 4) more tepid water due to low default settings on hot water heaters, and 5) reduced water pressure in	[19:38]
ascii_field	general.'	[19:38]
ascii_field	'If the regulators really do get their way, functioning dishwashers could become like high-flow toilets: contraband to be snuck across borders and sold at a high black market prices.'	[19:39]
jurov	same in eu. can't find washmachine with <2 hour cycle anymore cuz "saves water and electricity"	[19:39]
ascii_field	i can confirm, ~proper~ toilets have been rare and collectible in usaschwitz, since '90s	[19:40]
ascii_field	http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html << unrelated l0l	[19:41]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IqtE5i )	[19:41]
ascii_field	'In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.'	[19:41]
ascii_field	https://archive.is/EOetK	[19:43]
assbot	In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqu4IO )	[19:44]
danielpbarron	heh, the locals are food in the "circle of life"	[19:44]
ascii_field	http://trilema.com/2015/peripateticists-kinda-except-girls-not-boys-bare-cunt-instead-of-toga-and-walking-around-the-house-not-the-garden-but-otherwise-exactly-the-same << obligatory	[19:44]
assbot	Peripateticists, kinda, except girls not boys, bare cunt instead of toga and walking around the house not the garden, but otherwise exactly the same. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iqucbd )	[19:45]
*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @#64; 0.0005186 = 14.2096 BTC [-] {4}	[19:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102129 @#64; 0.00054998 = 56.1689 BTC [+] {4}	[19:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146871 @#64; 0.00055312 = 81.2373 BTC [+] {5}	[19:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7971 @#64; 0.00051829 = 4.1313 BTC [-]	[19:59]
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*	tcrypt has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[20:12]
Adlai	oh look, it's shitpost o'clock: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-12-2014#953986	[20:16]
assbot	Logged on 15-12-2014 23:14:04; assbot: The MPEx Shuffle - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1wBYQL8 )	[20:16]
Adlai	goes well with music	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	jurov ie, like being in procust's bed, crushed by a giant to fit.	[20:18]
Adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-08-2015#1224601 << https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/asdf/asdf/activity	[20:18]
assbot	Logged on 04-08-2015 21:50:14; ascii_field: danielpbarron: he was a relatively early 'computer sucks and must be rebuilt' person. sadly, i've no idea what he is up to these days.	[20:18]
assbot	asdf / asdf \| GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1UpfF7i )	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform [...] microhammer << was just an early suggestion, no one's married to it.	[20:19]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	to celebrate new trilema header, i give you... http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/letscallhershm.jpg	[20:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1M5Vbxr )	[20:36]
shinohai	Bravissimo	[20:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70018 @#64; 0.00053621 = 37.5444 BTC [+] {2}	[20:46]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22282 @#64; 0.00053924 = 12.0153 BTC [+]	[20:47]
asciilifeform	dulap ~STILL~ wedged	[20:50]
asciilifeform	'getinfo' call i made this morning ~STILL~ waiting	[20:51]
asciilifeform	disconnecting node 82.130.102.211:58774	[20:51]
asciilifeform	accepted connection 103.1.71.45:50543	[20:51]
asciilifeform	socket closed	[20:51]
asciilifeform	disconnecting node 103.1.71.45:50543	[20:51]
asciilifeform	...	[20:51]
asciilifeform	etc	[20:51]
asciilifeform	other nodes - normal	[20:52]
shinohai	I still have 0 connections on both my nodes	[20:52]
asciilifeform	socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0	[20:52]
asciilifeform	motherfuckers	[20:52]
asciilifeform	guess this means i'ma have to set up vpn between the nodez	[20:53]
asciilifeform	but this is not enough, will need the hard-fuckyou-never-disconnect-from-nobles patch	[20:53]
shinohai	O.o	[20:54]
asciilifeform	think of it this way: zoolag and incitatus were plugged into dulap with -addnode. but this was not enough	[20:55]
trinque	needs something akin to connect but with multiple, right?	[20:56]
asciilifeform	-connect takes multiples	[20:56]
asciilifeform	but is RETARDED in that it creates a drone node that can't be connected to by anyone.	[20:56]
shinohai	I was about to say ... ive been using -connect only for weeks	[20:56]
shinohai	which defeats the purpose	[20:56]
asciilifeform	confirmed, neither zoolag nor incitatus is presently connected to dulap	[20:57]
asciilifeform	this should not be a thing.	[20:57]
asciilifeform	connect or fucking die.	[20:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164100 @#64; 0.00055226 = 90.6259 BTC [+] {8}	[20:57]
asciilifeform	i was loathe to implement hardcoded noble-peer by ip, because hitler can put whatever he wants at that ip, from the perspective of my box	[20:58]
asciilifeform	(mitm)	[20:58]
asciilifeform	for now it'll have to be hardcoded to port on localhost, pumped through ssh tunnel to remote host, where same.	[20:58]
trinque	asciilifeform: ah right	[20:59]
trinque	is this just stupid behavior entirely re: connect?	[20:59]
trinque	seems so	[20:59]
asciilifeform	trinque: i don't have ANYTHING -connect'ed	[20:59]
trinque	should be separate concerns entirely	[20:59]
asciilifeform	this concerns all modes.	[20:59]
trinque	I'm saying one setting for "serve blocks to others" and another for which nodes to connect to	[20:59]
asciilifeform	i have a box where some sniveling fucker has been lifting payloads out of tcp, for ~9+ hours now.	[21:00]
asciilifeform	trinque: setting '-peers' for nodes which 1) don't obey 'misbehave' bits 2) get served PRIORITY regardless of what	[21:01]
asciilifeform	3) node is considered to be operating in red blinkenlight mode if ANY of them are not responding	[21:01]
asciilifeform	call'em 'supernodez' if feeling rpietilian	[21:02]
shinohai	I just commented out my addnode/connect jazz just to run for now :/	[21:03]
asciilifeform	#2 in particular means that 'plebes' get DROPPED EN MASSE if that's what it takes	[21:03]
*	BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@#64;unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:03]
asciilifeform	to service a noble.	[21:04]
asciilifeform	this is good prep for the shiny phyoootooreh of hello kitty when noble nodes will sit on trunk lines and connecting to them will cost what a seat at nyse costs	[21:05]
shinohai	^____________________^	[21:06]
*	assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo	[21:06]
asciilifeform	laugh all you like, but i can't picture things working, long-term, any other way	[21:06]
shinohai	asciilifeform: with the pogo binary from the mailing list I got 3 connections xD	[21:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24928 @#64; 0.00053707 = 13.3881 BTC [-]	[21:17]
shinohai	nm, they arent the connections I specified.	[21:17]
*	tcrypt (~tylersmit@#64;c-67-169-17-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:23]
BingoBoingo	!up tcrypt	[21:25]
*	assbot gives voice to tcrypt	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19551 @#64; 0.00053707 = 10.5003 BTC [-] {2}	[21:27]
BingoBoingo	It looks like MS has been outbid for Theo's love http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150804161939	[21:27]
assbot	The OpenBSD Foundation Announces First Platinum Donor: CII ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN2xWq )	[21:27]
shinohai	https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fv6jp/payed_for_coffee_payed_twice_by_mistake_merchant/ <<< kek	[21:32]
assbot	Payed for coffee. Payed twice by mistake. Merchant used BitPay. Help! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN2TMR )	[21:32]
*	mike_c (~mike_c@#64;unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:36]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[21:37]
*	NewLiberty_ (~NewLibert@#64;76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90244 @#64; 0.00054299 = 49.0016 BTC [+] {3}	[21:53]
shinohai	Little wonder I can find any jobs4bitcoin these days: http://redd.it/3a536o	[21:54]
assbot	HIRING: 3 BTC Finder fee, find a lender for me. : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN4S3H )	[21:54]
*	TheRealJohnGalt (uid29986@#64;gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvicqiadyzkawklf) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:54]
*	assbot removes voice from tcrypt	[21:55]
punkman	shinohai, dafuq is that	[21:56]
shinohai	Some idiot on jobs4bitcoin. Some days the requests baffle me.	[21:57]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@#64;c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:57]
punkman	looks like plain laundering deal	[21:57]
*	ag3nt_zer0 (328f93cf@#64;gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.143.147.207) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:58]
shinohai	My thoughts as well. I'll throw up a webserver or stuff like that on there. But those sorts of postings are a big nope for me.	[21:59]
punkman	http://www.reddit.com/r/Jobs4Bitcoins/comments/3fv8hj/for_hire_chinese_to_english_translation/	[22:01]
assbot	[For Hire] Chinese to English Translation : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRP5PR )	[22:01]
*	assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0	[22:01]
punkman	lulz4bitcoin	[22:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23001 @#64; 0.00055705 = 12.8127 BTC [+]	[22:01]
punkman	http://www.reddit.com/r/Jobs4Bitcoins/comments/3fl4ch/hiring_secure_web_developer/ << meowmix!	[22:02]
assbot	[Hiring] Secure Web Developer : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRPaTo )	[22:02]
BingoBoingo	These rates https://archive.is/w7WwW	[22:03]
assbot	[For Hire] Chinese to English Translation : Jobs4Bitcoins ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRPbH0 )	[22:03]
punkman	http://www.reddit.com/r/fakeid/comments/3fpymm/meowmixids_scammed_me/	[22:04]
assbot	Meowmixids scammed me : fakeid ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN5NB5 )	[22:04]
mats	win10 has a package manager	[22:04]
mats	huk	[22:04]
BingoBoingo	Orly	[22:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32983 @#64; 0.00053367 = 17.602 BTC [-] {2}	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform some nodes may be like that, but it's necessarily going to be the exception not the rule	[22:14]
BingoBoingo	Oh, so /r/coontown was banned	[22:16]
BingoBoingo	I think it makes sense for node operators to come to agreements to make some of their connections through SSH tunnels.	[22:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9917 @#64; 0.00052836 = 5.2397 BTC [-]	[22:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: pretty obvious that it would be a rare thing. most folks don't have nyse seats.	[22:20]
asciilifeform	dulap ~still~ in black hole.	[22:21]
*	asciilifeform spent the past few hrs looking at what it'd take to craft the 'noble nodez' thing.	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	so why aren;t you buying the trunk line	[22:21]
asciilifeform	because i'm a pauper ?	[22:22]
asciilifeform	why else.	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	hm	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	that didn't play out as expected.	[22:22]
asciilifeform	l0l	[22:22]
*	BingoBoingo thinks something like OpenBSD uses for authenticating repository keys for anonCVS could work for important node connections	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	"If you can write 'if' in FORTH, then why restrict 44 yourself to the usual if/while/for/switch constructs? You want a construct that iterates 45 over every other element in a list of numbers? You can add it to the language."	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	this strikes me as uniquely retarded	[22:23]
asciilifeform	what, in particular ?	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	why would i make a "construct" in the language that does i+2	[22:24]
asciilifeform	say you wanna implement a bignum	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	ok	[22:24]
asciilifeform	walks an array of $machineword and adds'em up, munging the carry bits as needed.	[22:24]
asciilifeform	just one example.	[22:24]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is not even the darkest voodoo. consider, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-06-2015#1169416	[22:25]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 01:37:28; asciilifeform: phun phakt: 'scheme' programming language has its 'call-with-current-continuation', perhaps the oddest and 'most generic' control structure known, which takes the current place in execution and turns it into an assignable (yes) closure (i.e. callable function!) -- typically it is implemented using setjmp().	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	why would i want to do it THIS way	[22:25]
asciilifeform	resistance of the medium	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	sit there and debug off-by-one errors in a pile of asm ?	[22:26]
asciilifeform	you wouldn't	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	what's wrong with include bignum.h	[22:26]
asciilifeform	BECAUSE NOT FORTH	[22:26]
asciilifeform	not part of the universe.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	can't be sourced at runtime	[22:26]
asciilifeform	and twiddled	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	so i static link	[22:26]
asciilifeform	and 'debug' only happens if someone made mistake.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	universe is to be perfect.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	yes. me.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	that's mostly what i make.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	mistakes.	[22:27]
asciilifeform	l0l	[22:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu please don't change profession to sapper.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	problem is sapper keeps trying to change profession into me	[22:27]
*	mircea_popescu is jus' sittin' here	[22:28]
asciilifeform	'you may not be interested in sapping, but sapping is interested in you'	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	aha	[22:28]
asciilifeform	http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExampleForthCode << for 'forth' n00bz	[22:28]
assbot	Example Forth Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7rmd )	[22:28]
asciilifeform	(and potential aficionados)	[22:28]
asciilifeform	this, recall, is the universe on which chuck moore built not only ic, but entire tooling for his fab.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	possibly the only non-winblowz/wintel-based electronics toolchain in the world.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	(remaining)	[22:29]
BingoBoingo	resistance of the medium << Is there any other reason to ever do anything?	[22:29]
asciilifeform	btw if you own a 'mac' or a 'sun', you have forth.	[22:30]
BingoBoingo	https://voat.co/v/CoonTown/comments/379756 << Reddit	[22:31]
assbot	Checking your bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7zlK )	[22:31]
*	ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...)	[22:31]
asciilifeform	or possibly only on ppc macs?	[22:31]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo ?	[22:31]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Probably only on PPC. PPC got a lot of cool stuff. Perhaps not across whole PPC run though. Will have to look into.	[22:32]
asciilifeform	'A community will be Quarantined on Reddit when we deem its content to be extremely offensive or upsetting to the average redditor or to ourselves.' << l0lziez	[22:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @#64; 0.00053946 = 12.4615 BTC [+]	[22:34]
*	BingoBoingo not sure if entirely improvement or not http://dpaste.com/30TF18Z	[22:34]
assbot	dpaste: 30TF18Z ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7K0k )	[22:34]
asciilifeform	l0l, medicine for corpse.	[22:35]
asciilifeform	http://cubbi.com/fibonacci/forth.html << moar forth for n00bz	[22:36]
assbot	cubbi.com: fibonacci numbers in Forth ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7OgO )	[22:36]
asciilifeform	(basic maths)	[22:36]
asciilifeform	if it seems 'hairy', it is only to folks who don't use 'rpn' calculator daily.	[22:37]
BingoBoingo	Forth looks incredibly legible. More so than cpp	[22:37]
asciilifeform	and worth noting that a perfectly usable forth, on which all of these examples will run, can be implemented for just about ~any~ machine in a few HUNDRED BYTES	[22:37]
asciilifeform	needing not even operating system.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	(so long as you have a serial port going)	[22:38]
*	mircea_popescu doesn't dispute any of this.	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	but it does seem to me very much akin to a "hey, if you salt a fresh frog leg you can electrocute it into moving". cool! but instead i order my slaves to read and summarize for me!	[22:38]
asciilifeform	it doesn't cure cancer, baldness, impotence, no.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	this is more like 'a few minutes' incantations create a gurl from thin air'	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	orly ?	[22:39]
asciilifeform	she might not be grade-a beauty, but fuckable.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	this i'd like to see demonstrated.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	ahahahaha	[22:39]
asciilifeform	ask chuck moore.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	i guess we get to the gist of it	[22:39]
asciilifeform	he's in her right now.	[22:39]
asciilifeform	!s greenarrays	[22:39]
assbot	14 results for 'greenarrays' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=greenarrays	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	yes in her, but as in, he fell in ?	[22:40]
*	BingoBoingo flipping through Eulora source can make no sense of what files do what. It is nothing like Bitcoin which is the only big cpp turn I am kinda familiar with.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	neh, as in pumping happily	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo chetty spent two years for a result in parts no different.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	http://yosefk.com/blog/my-history-with-forth-stack-machines.html << obligatory re: up/down of forth	[22:41]
asciilifeform	^ mega-classic	[22:41]
assbot	My history with Forth & stack machines ... ( http://bit.ly/1JN7Y7N )	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	"My VLSI tools take a chip from conception through testing. Perhaps 500 lines of source code. Cadence, Mentor Graphics do the same, more or less. With how much source/object code?"	[22:41]
asciilifeform	(imho the definitive work on the subject)	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	yeah, this part is clear to me	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	but... i don't design chips!	[22:42]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I may surprise drop cg less full open Eulora client, but more likely CrystalSpace will hit version 2.2, chetty will build Eulora client against it, and Full Open Eulora client just happens	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i don't think we will ever move that.	[22:42]
asciilifeform	it is an example of a gnarly domain that chuck moore obliterated into something that fits in his palm.	[22:42]
*	asciilifeform brb eating	[22:42]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: It appears years in the future. I imagine Adlai will prolly get an emacs client first. Or I'll get a sacrificial linux machine first (sacrificial linux machine is tiered below box to colo cheap for infrastructure BTC node).	[22:44]
BingoBoingo	But I am in the process of dancing with university to set up job interview, so may have fiat stream to start burning soon	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	: ( 41 word drop ; immediate	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	i have to know the ascii value of ) to code in forth ?	[22:45]
Adlai	being able to grow a beard should suffice	[22:47]
scoopbot_revived	BitBet (S.BBET) July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/bitbet-sbbet-july-2015-statement/	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform truth be told : do you find this interesting for any other reason than the vague whiff of a promise of perhaps allowing you toi make btc chips /	[22:51]
BingoBoingo	Resistance of the medium?	[22:52]
BingoBoingo	Oh BitBet got big donations!!!	[22:52]
mod6	ok so was kinda thinking about something here... so we all love to hate the mailing list in a way - but it's a decent spot to post new things, experimental, SoBAs etc. But it's not good for keeping track of patches that /actually/ are accepted and a part of a given "release".	[22:54]
mod6	but what if we then, say, at the end of a testing/release cycle were to (instead of signing or as well as posting to the mailing list) post the plaintext patch and a detach signature from the originating author, myself & ben to deedbot as a perm storage for these patches?	[22:55]
mod6	trinque thinks this might be able to be implemented without moving heaven and earth	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	"Good Forth programmers reportedly don't use much of those. Good Forth programmers arrange things so that they flow on the stack. " this is mel redivivus innit. most pessimum!	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	mod6 why'd it need anything moved at all ?	[22:57]
mod6	oh, i think he was saying that he would need to implement accepting a second argument and making it so that the URL contains a hash of the original plaintext patch.	[22:58]
trinque	mircea_popescu: he's considering a case where the thing would be able to accept new detached sigs for existing deeds	[22:58]
*	BingoBoingo thinks whole problem is that 'patch' demands line numbers instead of using nearby lines of code as landmarks	[22:58]
mod6	that way it sort of also solves the problem of keeping track of who signed which patch. since deedbot stores these sigs in a horizontal fashion next to the address.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	promises to make a nightmare of management tho.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	how do i do "find me all people who signed this" ?	[22:59]
trinque	that calls for a second screen which would group by deed and list the sigs	[22:59]
mod6	i guess this thought was sort of a work in progress.	[22:59]
mod6	maybe something can be added? like trinque is saying? i dunno.	[23:00]
punkman	BingoBoingo: it does use nearby lines	[23:00]
trinque	neat thought; I can see something useful there for contracts generally	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ok. i both read this before and i broadly agree with the man.	[23:01]
punkman	trinque: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-11-2014#915286	[23:02]
assbot	Logged on 09-11-2014 01:21:15; punkman: here's a thought: .sign AQLSTVsF http://paste.com/detached_sig.txt	[23:02]
trinque	punkman: yup that's precisely what's being discussed	[23:03]
mod6	so i guess all in all, the deedbot solution, if it can be created, seems better than my initial proposal of 2 mailing lists; one for everything, one for patches accepted only. which seems simple as well, but now we have to manage two lists.	[23:04]
mod6	on the other side of the coin, if we do something like this with deedbot, we need to ensure a mirror is always available.	[23:04]
punkman	I don't see how deeding patches helps with what started this discussion	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	"Bacteria have no junk in their DNA. " << very false, actually. percent-wise, the junk-in-dna is perhaps the most stable parameter of life in general	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	tbh i don't either.	[23:06]
mod6	well, nevermind then.	[23:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64250 @#64; 0.000527 = 33.8598 BTC [-] {2}	[23:07]
punkman	not that I'd mind patch deeds, but can basically deed patch hashes already	[23:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @#64; 0.00055807 = 20.9276 BTC [+] {3}	[23:08]
trinque	this grouping together of things signed can be done with deeds as they are	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	moreover, it just puts you in harm's way mod6.	[23:08]
trinque	just a hash of the content aside from the sig	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	what, now you're oBLIGEd to sign shit so people can use it ?	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	what you got, a deathwish ?	[23:08]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1226803 << i happen to like forth. i bring up chuck moore as an example of 'yes we can recreate 25 years of electronics on a napkin, and it'll fucking work'	[23:09]
assbot	Logged on 06-08-2015 01:51:35; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform truth be told : do you find this interesting for any other reason than the vague whiff of a promise of perhaps allowing you toi make btc chips /	[23:09]
asciilifeform	these are not entirely related, however.	[23:09]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> moreover, it just puts you in harm's way mod6. << well. not all patches, just ones that we've signed off on anyway.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	i still don't see why i'd do it, myself.	[23:09]
mod6	no different than what we're already doing.	[23:10]
BingoBoingo	Oh, so much qntra DDoS	[23:10]
mod6	or is it? and how?	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	if it's no different then why's it being discussed :)	[23:10]
*	btcdrak has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[23:10]
mod6	i just figured it was a neato way to keep the patches that we sign separate from the rest of the heap of stuff.	[23:12]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1226813 << prolly the #1 common n00b observation. but you really want patches to only apply to precisely the thing they were meant for! context doesn't give you that.	[23:12]
assbot	Logged on 06-08-2015 01:59:06; *: BingoBoingo thinks whole problem is that 'patch' demands line numbers instead of using nearby lines of code as landmarks	[23:12]
trinque	one tangle is the lack of clear separation of problems in the conversation.	[23:12]
mod6	but i see your point.	[23:12]
trinque	you've got "who signed this patch" and also "what is the parent node patch of this patch"	[23:12]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: File hashes fix	[23:12]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo fixed.	[23:13]
punkman	asciilifeform: but it does fuzz	[23:13]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I get a 404 nao	[23:13]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: nevermind, fixed	[23:13]
trinque	I actually grow to like the wiki suggestion best for the patch tree	[23:14]
BingoBoingo	And somehow 9 comment spammers made it through DDoS	[23:14]
trinque	need to document process at a step? go for it, it's a damn wiki	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	so wait, are we upon meditation now unaccepting the previous consensus-y spot ?	[23:15]
asciilifeform	???	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1226478	[23:15]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 21:50:41; mircea_popescu: but i guess the consensus is pointing towards, ml gets restated with antecedents, trinque writes a grapher for it all ?	[23:15]
*	asciilifeform really, really doesn't grasp why any of the things mentioned thus far - OTHER than the antecedent markers - are needed.	[23:15]
asciilifeform	them & the grapher.	[23:15]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2015/08/us-dod-may-surrender-substantial-ipv4-address-territory/#comment-37440 << chairmanmao@#64;gov.cn	[23:16]
trinque	that actually works fine for me as a separate tool, and as you say, if there's a wiki, great	[23:16]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> them & the grapher. << i can live with this.	[23:16]
mod6	was just derpin i guess.	[23:16]
trinque	mircea_popescu: yep that sounds fine	[23:16]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: not Official until approved by hitler@#64;whitehouse.gov	[23:16]
BingoBoingo	lol	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo "ddos" is you know, best effort kinda deal. just because you can't get through in 5 tries doesn't mean every one of the 50k or whatever many tries also failks.	[23:17]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Given the duration seems like they succeded closer to 1 in 4 or 1 in 3	[23:18]
BingoBoingo	https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4933387980_7d87a984d8_o.jpg	[23:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1K4wCfU )	[23:21]
trinque	BingoBoingo: fucker just got me actually	[23:27]
trinque	he challenged me to a game of "lemme try an' cut you" and I lost	[23:27]
BingoBoingo	I me probably not going to intentionally acquire cat until possesses farm.	[23:28]
scoopbot_revived	Brief Offer Insight into USG Theory of Internet Security http://qntra.net/2015/08/brief-offer-insight-into-usg-theory-of-internet-security/	[23:28]
BingoBoingo	Title fxd	[23:28]
decimation	as a long time user of RPN calculators I do indeed find forth pleasing	[23:29]
trinque	BingoBoingo: "As if so often" << typo	[23:29]
punkman	"Next Generation Cyber Initiative (Next Gen Cyber) received USD$ 400.6 mn in Treasury funding in 2014 alone, which was used to employ 1`333 full-time positions" << really? they couldn't have hired 4 more?	[23:30]
BingoBoingo	fxd	[23:30]
BingoBoingo	punkman: For Srs	[23:30]
asciilifeform	n00bz	[23:31]
asciilifeform	this is a standard usg racket:	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	2. Next Generation Cyber Initiative (Next Gen Cyber) received USD$ 400.6 mn in Treasury funding in 2014 alone, which was used to employ 1`333 full-time positions including 756 agents.	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	shoulda just paid for cyberlockerz lmao	[23:32]
asciilifeform	1) 'we MUST do N xs!!111!!!' 2) congress funds 2N 3) 'we could not afford to fill N x-s!' 4) congress funds 100N 5) 'we finally filled N/2! victory will come!' 6) 'private sector partnerz' snort coke, laugh all the way to 'skull and bones' frat reunion with N/2 worth of usd in the form of diamond suitcases.	[23:32]
asciilifeform	(the rest - exercise for reader)	[23:33]
BingoBoingo	CIA cuts coke with talcum for private sector partners?	[23:34]
asciilifeform	the joke is always on the public, because at no point was so much as N=1 needed for any conceivable purpose	[23:34]
asciilifeform	not even in the sense that every street corner 'needs' a cop, or said cop 'needs' the democratizer baton on his belt	[23:35]
asciilifeform	'and that Darkode intended to use Bitcoin addresses as authentication tools' << mno. someone purporting to be 'darkode' admin proclaimed that ~some idiot webwallet~ will be used !	[23:37]
asciilifeform	!= 'bitcoin addresses'	[23:37]
asciilifeform	multiple levels of imbecility here	[23:37]
asciilifeform	did anyone ~really~ expect to hear about ACTUAL opposition, the kind with teeth, to usg, from usg-controlled media organs /	[23:38]
asciilifeform	?	[23:38]
asciilifeform	expect only isises.	[23:38]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell pete_dushenski ^	[23:39]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[23:39]
asciilifeform	;;calc 400600000 / 1333	[23:40]
gribble	300525.131283	[23:40]
asciilifeform	notbad.jpg	[23:40]
asciilifeform	even if half goes to cocaine for skull&bonez	[23:41]
asciilifeform	that's still 2x the market rate for a chimp who clicks a mouse to run 'EnCase'	[23:42]
asciilifeform	if not 3x	[23:42]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Jaundiced Pooh update http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/i-dont-let-my-kids-watch-winnie-pooh-because-i-don-2842	[23:44]
assbot	I Don’t Let My Kids Watch Winnie The Pooh Because... \| ClickHole ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4xvFk )	[23:44]
asciilifeform	as for mircea_popescu's observation as quoted in qntra, i will say now what i said then:	[23:45]
asciilifeform	the reason anyone (NOT skull&bones and paid $maxint for zero work) works for usg is precisely the same reason anyone works for zimbabwe or mali:	[23:46]
asciilifeform	the rent gotta be paid.	[23:46]
BingoBoingo	“Hey, kids, come watch the emasculated bear with the scary fingerless hands who’s never fucked a day in his life and who is obsessed with a little boy of a different species.”	[23:46]
asciilifeform	and it isn't like the country has much of a real economy left, to work in, to pay it with	[23:46]
trinque	"I'd much rather my kids watch the fuck machine named Big Bird." << oh my sides	[23:47]
BingoBoingo	trinque: Seriously	[23:47]
BingoBoingo	"He’s got that swagger. There are a lot of good lessons children can learn from a major-league pussy-crusher like Big Bird, such as the importance of confidence, courage, and friendship. "	[23:47]
BingoBoingo	"Winnie the Pooh, on the other hand, wouldn’t know the first thing about courage. If he were on United Airlines Flight 93, for example, not only would he have not joined the revolt against the terrorists, but he probably would’ve gotten down on his yellow knees and sucked the terrorists’ cocks one by one. “Oh, bother!” he would shrug as the al-Qaeda operatives drilled the back of his throat with their pube-slathered ding	[23:48]
BingoBoingo	-dongs."	[23:48]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes my relatively modest lifestyle needs 10-20 btc/month	[23:48]
trinque	http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/its-our-duty-support-troops-and-second-amendment-c-1929	[23:48]
decimation	easily double or triple in east coast	[23:48]
assbot	It’s Our Duty To Support The Troops And The Secon... \| ClickHole ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrXbPp )	[23:48]
trinque	wahahahaha	[23:48]
asciilifeform	decimation: aha	[23:49]
asciilifeform	and this is just bare minimum	[23:49]
*	punkman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:49]
decimation	asciilifeform: to the first approximation, we all work for the fed	[23:49]
asciilifeform	(anyone who thinks that this is 'serious money' should try, say, getting sick in usa)	[23:49]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38550 @#64; 0.00055814 = 21.5163 BTC [+]	[23:49]
trinque	"...it's everyone's duty to support the troops, and also to support the Second Amendment should the day come when we need to overthrow the government and kill those troops."	[23:49]
decimation	lol	[23:49]
decimation	http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=2 < lulz	[23:50]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrXolC )	[23:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @#64; 0.00055814 = 30.6419 BTC [+]	[23:50]
decimation	"My excitement was doused when I realized that the lion killer was being painted as the villain. I faced the starkest cultural contradiction I’d experienced during my five years studying in the United States."	[23:50]
asciilifeform	trinque: the thing is quite like what mr mold called 'crocodile humour' (unfair, imho, characterization of soviet magazine 'krokodil') - 'the powerful laughing at the powerless'	[23:50]
asciilifeform	or, bringing back orwell,	[23:51]
asciilifeform	'Béraud used to contribute to the Fascist weekly paper Gringoire, which in its later years had become the most disgusting rag it is possible to imagine. I have seldom been so angered by anything in the press as by its cartoon when the wretched Spanish refugees streamed into France with Italian aeroplanes machine-gunning them all the way. The Spaniards were pictured as a procession of villainous-looking men, each pushing a han	[23:51]
asciilifeform	d-cart piled with jewellery and bags of gold. Gringoire kept up an almost continuous outcry for the suppression of the French Communist Party, but it was equally fierce against even the mildest politicians of the Left. One can get an idea of the moral level at which it conducted political controversy from the fact that it once published a cartoon showing Léon Blum in bed with his own sister. Its advertisement columns were ful	[23:51]
asciilifeform	l of ads for clairvoyants and books of pornography. This piece of rubbish was said to have a circulation of 500,000.'	[23:51]
trinque	I can see the point; in fact I made a similar one about "satirical" news shows recently	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @#64; 0.00053779 = 8.6315 BTC [-]	[23:53]
trinque	still I'll have a chuckle at my own powerlessness	[23:53]
decimation	yes, note that about 95% of the 'satire' is approximately 'those rednecks are so backward/stupid/racsis/dumb'	[23:54]
asciilifeform	'Note also how quickly Reynolds resorts to ridicule. There is a kind of pseudosatirical humor, or what would be humor if it was in any way funny, that is an unmistakable product of his time in Moscow. I call the trope "crocodile humor" after the Soviet humor magazine, Krokodil.'	[23:54]
asciilifeform	( mr mold, http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-read-and-enjoy-bogus-history.html )	[23:54]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: How to read and enjoy bogus history ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4xQrE )	[23:54]
BingoBoingo	yes, note that about 95% of the 'satire' is approximately 'those rednecks are so backward/stupid/racsis/dumb' << And yet us comparatively redder necks... Don't have urban hipster problems.	[23:54]
decimation	yes, in general the rednecks don't give a fuck (rightly so)	[23:55]
asciilifeform	http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/11/president-obama-with-little-perspective.html << the canonical post	[23:55]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: President Obama, with a little perspective ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4xWzg )	[23:55]
asciilifeform	'Many UR readers have had the priceless educational privilege of growing up behind the Iron Curtain. These readers will identify Professor DeLong's tone at once: it is the tone of the Soviet humor magazine Krokodil. I will take the liberty of Anglicizing, and call it "crocodile humor." Extremely educated readers may also be familiar with the Nazi variant, as found in Der Stürmer and the like. The material is different, of cou	[23:55]
asciilifeform	rse, but the tone is unmistakable. We'll hear a good deal more of it in the next four years.'	[23:55]
asciilifeform	'Crocodile humor is the laughter of the powerful at the powerless. It is not intended to be funny. It is intended to intimidate. Those who laugh, as many do, are those who love to submerge themselves in a mob, feel its strength as theirs, chant and shake their spears as one.'	[23:55]
decimation	a very stark example recently is the outrage/mockery over that lion safari guy	[23:56]
trinque	btw, trilema is down	[23:56]
trinque	asciilifeform: I laugh at the gallows, not at any mob power	[23:57]
trinque	but it's a point well made	[23:57]
asciilifeform	http://loper-os.org/pub/Krokodil_1985_13.djvu << uploaded for this thread. i will let readers decide if mr mold was fair about krokodil	[23:58]
decimation	"A week later, my mother gathered me with nine of my siblings to explain that her uncle had been attacked but escaped with nothing more than an injured leg. The lion sucked the life out of the village: No one socialized by fires at night; no one dared stroll over to a neighbor’s homestead."	[23:58]
asciilifeform	perhaps he was - and had read this exact issue	[23:58]
decimation	"When the lion was finally killed, no one cared whether its murderer was a local person or a white trophy hunter, whether it was poached or killed legally. We danced and sang about the vanquishing of the fearsome beast and our escape from serious harm."	[23:58]
asciilifeform	(not necessary, strictly, to speak ru, to appreciate)	[23:58]
*	jordandotdev has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[23:59]

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Forum logs for 05 Aug 2015

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