Forum logs for 03 Feb 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu so she stopped writing ~poetry~. and instead wrote a miserable novel [00:00]
mircea_popescu about a farmer. who was in debt. who was married to a marry sue, whose published novel saves the farm. [00:00]
mircea_popescu it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon. [00:01]
mircea_popescu and if you look at the place's history... those wolves that ate boston... their teeth are still visible in the striations of the skins of these people. [00:01]
asciilifeform ^ usa in one page [00:01]
asciilifeform !b 16 [00:02]
assbot Last 16 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:02]
decimation decimation: i wonder if the device keys have even been 'phuctored' ever. << "CMs MUST store and maintain the CM Device Certificate RSA private/public key pairs. The CM MUST store the CM Device Certificate private keys in a manner that deters unauthorized disclosure and modification. Also, CMs SHOULD prevent debugger tools from reading the CM Device Certificate private key in production devices by restricting or blocking physical [00:06]
decimation access to memory containing this key." [00:06]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes seems you've been superseded [00:07]
assbot Introducing new "the only official foundation of Bitcoin" [sign up as president] ... ( ) [00:07]
* mircea_popescu is kind-of surprised anyone agrees [00:08]
mircea_popescu i thought this was highly personal and entirely idiosyncratic a view [00:08]
asciilifeform 'We, the true "only official foundation of Bitcoin" declare ourselves the new leaders. Our main goal will be hookers and blow for everyone! Our main concern will be beer and Bitcoin of course. We will represent the bitcoin community from now on in the correct way to the outside world and all important people need to bow to us and bribe us to get a foot in the door. It will also be lucrative for the people in power to infiltrat [00:11]
asciilifeform e us so they can be the true leaders of the bitcoin community too.' << win [00:11]
mircea_popescu ikr? [00:14]
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asciilifeform 257458. [00:16]
mircea_popescu << for the record, satoshi also co-authored the original not-a-mary-sue [00:17]
assbot ... ( ) [00:17]
pete_dushenski cazalla "negative media attention Bitcoin reguarly receives in the media" << regularly [00:18]
BingoBoingo !up Vexual [00:20]
* assbot gives voice to Vexual [00:20]
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mircea_popescu << lol ubs wants a "blockchain technology" separated from bitcoin [00:22]
assbot UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | ... ( ) [00:22]
mircea_popescu there you go, who asked if to own or to burn ? to this. [00:22]
asciilifeform wasn't that an old idiocy ? [00:22]
asciilifeform at least a few months? [00:22]
mircea_popescu if ubs wasn't so very bankrupt, it'd even matter more. [00:22]
asciilifeform i distinctly recall hearing of it before [00:22]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform nobody lost his job as ubs cio by doing old idiocy [00:22]
cazalla asciilifeform, this one is new but UBS have mentioned it before [00:22]
cazalla pete_dushenski, ty [00:22]
pete_dushenski np [00:22]
decimation didn't some ubs guy jump out a window a few years ago [00:23]
asciilifeform aha [00:23]
asciilifeform famous street-pizza kitchen [00:23]
decimation I'm thinking of zurich insurance [00:23]
Vexual if anyone patents blockchain, its because fuck [00:24]
Vexual einstein would be sitting there, drunk as fuck in austria, thinking, "nah thats the same shit" [00:25]
asciilifeform let'em patent sky, earth, sea [00:25]
asciilifeform own arses. [00:25]
mircea_popescu ideally they patent the particular way in which they suck my cock. [00:26]
mircea_popescu so there's no confusion if i'm gettingserviced by oliver bussmann or by his mom. [00:26]
Vexual lol [00:27]
asciilifeform 'the bus, mmm, broke down, mm. -we're- the bus now.' --- 'bangbus' [00:28]
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decimation asciilifeform: re: 'drugs in toilet' << the simple version is 'ur bezzlars be our bezzlars now!' [00:30]
assbot How The Federal Government Puts The Screws Into Gun Businesses | The Daily Caller ... ( ) [00:30]
decimation "The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released a report last month showing the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) targeted gun dealers and other businesses like payday lenders and pawn shops as illegal operations, and pressured banks to halt dealing with these businesses. The administration’s program is now known as Operation Choke Point, which is run by the Departments of Justice and Treasury." [00:30]
mircea_popescu i can;t wait for when it's not about the block size but about the total bitcoins, and it's noit about "saving africa" but about saving ubs, and the howlers are not on the forum but on every tv screen, [00:30]
mircea_popescu telling them to get fucked THEN will be much lulzier. [00:31]
mircea_popescu decimation pity they don't have the backbone (and leadership) to start a cash only program, and publicly denounce banking as a scam. [00:31]
mircea_popescu then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash. [00:32]
mircea_popescu make a steak out of the whole thing. [00:32]
Vexual ayo [00:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see the old threads re: nontriviality of hooking up to cash world from scratch [00:33]
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decimation usg ought to be careful with pushing this kind of shit, you don't want the little people to become confused about banking [00:33]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: e.g., everybody in the store would need to move to that planet [00:33]
asciilifeform and someone would still have to come up with electronic bezzlars to pay tax with - or the tax squads descend [00:34]
mircea_popescu the nontriviality there is a little ofsometing else. the thought process of "she's a total bitch, let me try and work with her nevertheless" is responsible for more unhappy marriages than any other thing. [00:34]
Vexual i like the art deco font, reminds me of a time i can't possibly remember [00:34]
asciilifeform well that's usg. [00:34]
mircea_popescu not the right approach. bitch talks back, she gets slapped. she starts crying, she gets beaten. she screams, she gets cut loose. [00:34]
Vexual and a days folding money might fit in the back pocket [00:34]
mircea_popescu government is the bitch. the slightest getting in your way must be met with disproportionately escalated response until it either dies or gives up. [00:34]
mircea_popescu this is how small government is both obtained and maintained, and this is how a country that actually works is preserved. [00:35]
mircea_popescu and fwiw a principle i studiously observed throughout my life and in all aspects so far. cop wants to bitch about tickets, his department can enjoy thirty eight different lawsuits. [00:36]
mircea_popescu and it goes from there. [00:36]
decimation in this metaphor, us citizens are henpecked betas? [00:36]
asciilifeform 'maintain small government' is like 'maintain small tumour.' [00:36]
mircea_popescu decimation quite. [00:36]
Vexual do you pay the tickets for your limo mp? [00:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform more like "maintaining your penis in a state where it's enjoyable without ruining your life" [00:36]
mircea_popescu Vexual i dun limo. [00:36]
Vexual walking is good [00:37]
decimation the problem is that the vector usg uses is civilization-destroying. essentially "obey the law" becomes more of a farce until it becomes a laughing matter [00:37]
asciilifeform 'I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products.' -- plenty of small-arms related junk on 'amazon' [00:37]
mircea_popescu shoot it. [00:37]
asciilifeform just not the boomsticks themselves (regulated) [00:37]
asciilifeform nor gunpowder. [00:37]
mircea_popescu the usg has no priviledged relationship with the law. it's a poor mockery thereof. [00:38]
mircea_popescu we've made more good law here in the past year than the us congress in the past decade. [00:38]
asciilifeform 'Karrasch also found he could not use the popular accounting software QuickBooks to pay receipts because of the nature of his business.' --- enjoy 'the cloud' ! [00:39]
mircea_popescu heh. [00:39]
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mircea_popescu wait. you could buy a kalash from karrasch ?! [00:39]
kakobrekla [00:39]
assbot ... ( ) [00:39]
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decimation '“Google could be doing business with firearms businesses. The thing is they won’t because of their stance [against firearms]. I can’t advertise on Google. I can’t advertise on Facebook. I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products. I closed down that account over a year ago, and I still get notices from them, regardless of the emails I sent to them telling them that I’m not selling with them.” [00:41]
BingoBoingo kakobrekla: Win [00:41]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla ahahaha scammer cuts loose already introducing new scam ? [00:41]
mircea_popescu jesus these idiots. [00:41]
mircea_popescu this may be one of the first ones that has made a profit. [00:41]
mircea_popescu in a year or two [00:41]
kakobrekla quite amazing [00:41]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [00:41]
BingoBoingo "wrecking ball" [00:42]
mircea_popescu decimation see, this is the whine of an idiot. [00:42]
mircea_popescu he should start doing actually roi able advertising. create a festival. say in the place where they stole that guy's cattle grazing. [00:43]
mircea_popescu give people free ammo. sell guns for cash only. [00:43]
mircea_popescu make a point about how the enemy IS THE ENEMY [00:43]
mircea_popescu stop pussy-fucking-footing all around the broken, shattered remains of a thing that no longer exists. [00:43]
asciilifeform cash << guess who'll be waiting for the cash car on the interstate. [00:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform << then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash. [00:43]
mircea_popescu what exactly are they gonna do ? feed you for the next 30 years ? big whoop. [00:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: your advice makes the same amount of sense as solzhenitsyn's [00:44]
asciilifeform which is to say, a good bit of [00:44]
asciilifeform but who will take it. [00:45]
mircea_popescu i dun recall what that was ? [00:45]
asciilifeform !s solzhenitsyn axe [00:45]
assbot 8 results for 'solzhenitsyn axe' : [00:45]
mircea_popescu a yeah. [00:45]
decimation << " The National Rifle Association is investigating reports that a leading federal agent proposed using license-plate readers to scan vehicles at gun shows as part of a gun-trafficking crackdown." [00:45]
mircea_popescu people need to seriously stop worrying about imaginary hobgoblins. [00:45]
assbot US Car-Spying Plans Included Parked at Gun Shows, WSJ Says [00:45]
mircea_popescu so what's the problem, if half a million people shoot half a million cops, they're going to build you a special country club and keep you there with all your friends ? [00:45]
mircea_popescu o noes! [00:45]
Vexual i log numberplaltes [00:46]
asciilifeform half a million people shoot half a million cops << lol [00:46]
asciilifeform are there even half a million in north a. [00:46]
mircea_popescu takes < 1 man year. [00:46]
mircea_popescu ie, less than the fucking effort to build the cardano. [00:46]
asciilifeform this is basically solzhenitsyn's theorem [00:46]
Vexual noone to call [00:46]
asciilifeform and the reason why 1 machinegunner can guard 500 prisoners [00:47]
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mircea_popescu heh. people keep derping about the 1% but don't really want to be teh 1% eh ? [00:47]
mircea_popescu fine. just as long as we all stop pretending like this is "impossible" and we understand that it's quite possible, perfectly feasible and practically effective. [00:48]
mircea_popescu then it can be a "but i dun want to" and everyone can go home happy. [00:48]
asciilifeform 'The DEA has designed this program to assist with locating, identifying, and seizing bulk currency, guns, and other illicit contraband moving along the southwest border and throughout the United States.' [00:48]
asciilifeform ( ) [00:49]
assbot US Spying On Millions of Cars on Major Highways: Wall Street Journal [00:49]
decimation mircea_popescu: but you said the same plan would not have worked for Louis XVI [00:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja ever have a ru physics textbook with the jumping chinese example ? [00:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform fraid not. decimation quote me ? [00:49]
asciilifeform 'if the chinese were to jump from stools 1 metre heigh upon hearing the signal over the radio...' [00:50]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the rebellion thing is not a cowardice problem as such but actually a byzantine generals problem. [00:50]
mircea_popescu 'how many chinese women woud orgasm ' ? [00:51]
decimation [00:51]
assbot Logged on 13-11-2014 05:34:16; mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ? [00:51]
asciilifeform suicidal courage is but one solution to the byzantine generals conundrum [00:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but the principal problem of the byznatines was their cowardice [00:51]
asciilifeform and not an especially effective solution [00:51]
mircea_popescu decimation you see the difference between being king and being, allegedly, a nation ? [00:51]
asciilifeform as it does not guarantee that the 'generals' march simultaneously or in any useful pattern at all [00:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform pattern is actually not required in insurection. determination only requisite ingredient, carries day. [00:52]
asciilifeform usa is a proverbial 'glass house' [00:52]
mircea_popescu decimation they're in fact the opposite sides of the same coin. [00:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform everything ever seems one thing until it isn't. you know ? [00:52]
asciilifeform in which few, other than obvious idiots and easily controlled orcs, care to 'throw stones' [00:52]
asciilifeform how many folks in usa can survive a month w/out 'business as usual' (mains, fuel, water, just-in-time deliveries to local 'food' shops) [00:53]
mircea_popescu so then why so many peoples in the usa bitch! [00:53]
asciilifeform same reason a fella sitting on the stake 'bitches' [00:53]
mircea_popescu yeah well it gotta be one or the other. [00:54]
asciilifeform sitting on a sharpened pine tree fsckinghurts [00:54]
mircea_popescu because the aliens aren't about to land with platinum visas for everyone. [00:54]
asciilifeform who can disagree. [00:54]
mircea_popescu but i guess we can wait :D [00:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, to revisit this point : the byzantine generals problem is specifically and exactly mathematically formalised cowardice. [00:55]
mircea_popescu this is what cowardice is : the consideration of meta. [00:55]
mircea_popescu you see a nail go "don't hit me unless i actually go in the wall" ? [00:56]
asciilifeform so, let's take the malcontents of europe circa 1849. [00:56]
mircea_popescu fuck you, you're a nail. whether you drive or bend, you're getting hit. [00:56]
cazalla au beginning to cut interest rates today [00:56]
asciilifeform more courage would have made a difference ? [00:56]
asciilifeform or - coordination. [00:56]
asciilifeform and knowing what the hell they're doing [00:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you mean after the austrian monarch was deposed ? in a negotiated peace ? [00:56]
mircea_popescu everyone got paid in 1848. [00:56]
cazalla just jumped off a cliff too lol [00:57]
asciilifeform '48 rather [00:57]
assbot - AUD/USD Chart ... ( ) [00:57]
mircea_popescu cazalla may be good for exports :D [00:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform were you thinking 1907 ? i dun see the 1848 angle in any light. [00:59]
cazalla mircea_popescu, maybe, but i read demand for au minerals has tanked too [01:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: thinking of the mostly failed revolts in fr, elsewhere [01:00]
decimation the problem from the rebel's point of view - does his rebellion tend to empower gentlemen planters, or lenin, danton, and their ilk? [01:01]
asciilifeform [01:07]
assbot ... ( ) [01:08]
asciilifeform ^ i would much like to see that mega-portscan happen. it is really the only sane way to generate a proper seedlist. [01:11]
asciilifeform random selection of nodes from whole planet. [01:11]
asciilifeform zap whatever compartments and cliques may have formed naturally (or unnaturally...) in the graph. [01:11]
asciilifeform or are we to believe that a protocol carried 100% in cleartext, on unique tcp port - is not being molested ? [01:12]
asciilifeform (proofofwork is not a magical pill against every conceivable form of molestation, only the immediately profitable forms) [01:12]
asciilifeform !up Vexual [01:15]
* assbot gives voice to Vexual [01:15]
asciilifeform note that enemy has all the portscans he can ever wish for. [01:19]
asciilifeform enough to eat with arse. [01:19]
asciilifeform whereas normal people are stuck wondering how many public btc nodes, and afaik there is not a believable public number anywhere [01:20]
asciilifeform nor any believable public data on versions. [01:20]
Vexual no versions, only talk [01:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i do not grasp how one could see the 1848 revolts as failed. [01:21]
mircea_popescu decimation the error is to imagine lenin, dalton and gentlemen planters are some sort of ilk. [01:21]
mircea_popescu they're not. [01:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how is a portscan sane ? [01:21]
mircea_popescu no, the sane way is wot signed seed list. [01:22]
asciilifeform well yes [01:22]
asciilifeform but derived how? [01:22]
* asciilifeform did not suggest that a node carry out the scan! [01:22]
mircea_popescu derived by "here is the ip of my pogo" [01:22]
asciilifeform but that it be performed, now and again, as a scientific enterprise [01:22]
mircea_popescu sure, but a scientific enterprise in no way related to generating seedlists. [01:23]
asciilifeform ip of my pogo << that'd mean having these identify selves to one another specifically [01:23]
mircea_popescu sure. [01:23]
mircea_popescu it's what deedbot is for, among other things [01:23]
asciilifeform and introduces a central point of choke [01:23]
mircea_popescu nope. [01:23]
asciilifeform (to whom, precisely, are they to speak?) [01:23]
mircea_popescu hm? [01:23]
asciilifeform say i were to prepare a crate of pogos today [01:23]
mircea_popescu ok. [01:24]
asciilifeform whence should they look for seeds ? [01:24]
decimation asciilifeform: looks like we are gonna have to invent our own dns :/ [01:24]
mircea_popescu they should look for seeds in their config file. [01:24]
asciilifeform but what is to be found there ? [01:24]
decimation asciilifeform: blockchain telegraphy? [01:24]
asciilifeform i will not know where the contents of the crate will be plugged in [01:24]
asciilifeform decimation: that needs a blockchain! [01:24]
asciilifeform decimation: catch22 [01:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not your job to know! [01:24]
mircea_popescu whosoever wants to run one looks at our list, or if not at whatever list he feels like. [01:25]
asciilifeform well, when filling the crate, what is to be placed in the configs? [01:25]
mircea_popescu nothing. [01:25]
asciilifeform so these are not working nodes out of the box. [01:25]
asciilifeform should have specified. [01:25]
decimation should the nodes ship with a 'cannon' blockchain? [01:25]
asciilifeform canon? [01:25]
Vexual torrent of data [01:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, they are working out of the box. [01:26]
mircea_popescu if you buy a coffee grinder it does not work out of the box unless pre-filled with beans ?! [01:26]
asciilifeform to backtrack, my earlier suggestion was to ship them with a basic list (a few hundred addrs) [01:26]
asciilifeform derived via port scan. [01:26]
mircea_popescu fuck democracy. [01:26]
asciilifeform i.e. random sampling of planet [01:26]
asciilifeform not for 'democracy' but for 'nothing-up-me-sleeve' [01:26]
mircea_popescu the fact that someone has a port open matters about as much as the fact someone scribbled something on github/wikipedia/we [01:26]
asciilifeform (term of art from crypto world) [01:26]
asciilifeform it's like collecting random sample of water from sewer [01:27]
asciilifeform sometimes - done [01:27]
mircea_popescu there is no burden that i can conceive where one's held to ship with prefilled config files. [01:27]
mircea_popescu irrespective of what the consumer may have come to expect. [01:27]
asciilifeform well then user has to fill it up. [01:27]
mircea_popescu uness you're shipping them to your mother, in which casse, put there w/e you want to put there. [01:27]
mircea_popescu of course. [01:27]
asciilifeform for some reason i thought we were still thinking in the 'gifts to gurlz at parties' train of thought [01:28]
Vexual most noders will ahve interetz [01:28]
mircea_popescu we were, yes. [01:28]
mircea_popescu so you expected to get gurls address and ship directly ? [01:28]
asciilifeform lol [01:28]
mircea_popescu well ? [01:28]
* asciilifeform is a firm student of 'the best machine is no machine' and like the solution of not even having a solution to the 'what seeds' thing [01:29]
asciilifeform however this leaves the 'what seeds' question open still. [01:29]
mircea_popescu the solution is perfectly there. here's the hole. here's a peg you may put in there. or else stick your own cock or a bottle of coke [01:29]
asciilifeform but there are 1000 holes, and one cock [01:29]
mircea_popescu why one cock again ? [01:29]
pete_dushenski scoop for superbowl viewers at home: [01:30]
assbot Meta-metastasis, or how a dancing shark jumped the shark. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [01:30]
asciilifeform well, perhaps not one, but... 7? (therealbitcoinfoundation) [01:30]
mircea_popescu ok... ? [01:30]
pete_dushenski did anyone else see right through the meta-sharks ? [01:30]
asciilifeform but presumably we aren't trying to build a closed parallel universe [01:30]
asciilifeform with only our nodes [01:30]
pete_dushenski and now dinner time, cheerio! [01:30]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform not specifically. we don't really care. [01:31]
mircea_popescu once bootstrapped nodes talk to nodes, what. [01:31]
Vexual [01:31]
Vexual dang [01:31]
asciilifeform l0l [01:31]
Vexual [01:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: outside-world addrs will not spontaneously appear in a cliquegraph [01:32]
mircea_popescu vice-versa. [01:32]
asciilifeform so we sit, waiting for all-comers to plug in? sure. [01:32]
mircea_popescu clique appears in outside world. [01:32]
mircea_popescu that's the idea isn't it [01:32]
asciilifeform ^ werks [01:32]
mircea_popescu an actual backbone for the bitcoin txn [01:32]
mircea_popescu i don't see the letter dns servers perceive any need for putting my fucking ip in their list anywhere. [01:33]
* asciilifeform gets idea [01:33]
mircea_popescu it's lightweight, large and dependable. all the qualities the dns letters don't actually have. [01:33]
mircea_popescu well, they are dependable, but still. [01:33]
asciilifeform 'muhammed will not go to mountain, let mountain go to muhammed' [01:34]
mod6 basically wedged at 168,000: just waiting for it to error out. [01:34]
mircea_popescu o.O [01:34]
mircea_popescu this is pretty fucking weird mod6 [01:34]
mod6 yeah. really weird. [01:35]
Vexual ascilifeform: you'll consult satoshi? [01:36]
Vexual [01:39]
decimation even if we want to start a backbone of little pogos, it won't be easy to keep track of ips [01:43]
decimation how many of pay for static ip services? [01:43]
mircea_popescu think about it : if it won't be easy to keep track of ips it follows it's no longer a chokepoint. [01:43]
Vexual [01:43]
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mircea_popescu it really is better designed dns. [01:44]
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mircea_popescu (also bear in mind these aren't really supposed to ever power down) [01:45]
Vexual duly noted [01:45]
* assbot removes voice from Vexual [01:46]
mircea_popescu an' with that, i bid you a good night! [01:46]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:01]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [13:01]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [13:01]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [13:01]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [13:02]
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jurov PeterL: asciilifeform's email had about hundred lines. if you make me a code that can unwrap them right in polynomial time... [13:09]
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mircea_popescu trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke << you don't understand the power ranger power range! [13:14]
mircea_popescu berkley db WAS NO GOOD because not modern enough. key value stores not a problem. those are good. [13:14]
mircea_popescu trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork? << things can't end up detimestamped in the first place. [13:15]
mircea_popescu tx is either in the main chain or in the mempool. the forks/orphans/we are irrelevant. [13:15]
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lobbes jurov: aha, I had not for some time. I'm digging the new look [13:15]
mircea_popescu fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries <<< yeah, which is a great argumrent too bad it's irrelevant. [13:16]
jurov incidentally. [13:17]
assbot Postgres Outperforms MongoDB and Ushers in New Developer Reality « The Postgres Blog from EnterpriseDB ... ( ) [13:17]
jurov "new reality" my ass. [13:18]
mircea_popescu no, it is. new "web" reality. [13:18]
mircea_popescu ie, the reality produced by the "consensus" of the "community" of "developers" on twitter. [13:18]
thestringpuller jurov: yea. that was a really big story when it first came out. A lot of people started migrating of mongodb [13:19]
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thestringpuller d00d in office used to joke about the mongodb coffee mugs they had given us [13:19]
thestringpuller "I'm going to drill holes in the bottom of all the mugs to illustrate a point" [13:20]
mircea_popescu mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there << no. look at that shit! [13:20]
mircea_popescu there are 1433 nodes with 90% uptime [13:20]
jurov !b 4 [13:20]
mircea_popescu there are 323 nodes with 99% uptime. [13:20]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [13:20]
mircea_popescu and just 60 with 99.9% uptime. [13:21]
thestringpuller MP where are you getting these stats? [13:21]
mircea_popescu people keep derping about uh oh, 7k nodes. BULLSHIT. we're down from 270k to 61. [13:21]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller [13:21]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2015 05:21:45; asciilifeform: [13:21]
mircea_popescu and whilke this massacre's going on, "uh oh, 20mb blocks, it will work fine" [13:21]
mircea_popescu gavin's mother on black cocks will work fine. [13:22]
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jurov lil' gavin [13:22]
assbot ... ( ) [13:22]
mircea_popescu "economic lolexperts in webeconomies have reviewed the fact that they have nfi what's what , what matters and where to look" [13:22]
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mircea_popescu according to the five year old, the burning house is no immediate cause of concern, he has his teddy. [13:22]
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thestringpuller MP how was this list created? [13:23]
thestringpuller or is that ALF question? [13:23]
asciilifeform jurov: if i attach it as attachment, will it display as normal message in turdatron (special case rule ?) [13:24]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller go to -dev ask sipa [13:24]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: see this_is_lame.txt [13:24]
mircea_popescu why ask me! [13:24]
jurov yes, clearsigned texts display directly in archive [13:24]
asciilifeform ^ that in fact was the letter that turdatron swallowed [13:24]
asciilifeform << copy [13:24]
assbot ... ( ) [13:24]
jurov ok, lemme see diff [13:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i read that off the mail list ? [13:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no you didn't [13:26]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you read the 'go for tea' letter [13:26]
asciilifeform (there's a few lines of code from that one in here) [13:26]
mircea_popescu what im not halucinating i saw a oh diff similar one ? [13:26]
jurov alf, presumably your email client did this: [13:26]
asciilifeform 10 whole lines were same, i think [13:26]
jurov < 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50% 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/" [13:26]
jurov > 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50% [13:26]
jurov > 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/" [13:26]
mircea_popescu why are we calling him alf again ? [13:27]
* asciilifeform doesn't know [13:27]
jurov why not? [13:27]
mircea_popescu trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this? << but... [13:28]
assbot Greenspuns Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( ) [13:28]
mircea_popescu jurov sure but i thought there was some funny story involved [13:28]
jurov !s alf [13:28]
assbot 40 results for 'alf' : [13:28]
asciilifeform incidentally, i have no idea who sipa is, but does appear to do much of the gruntwork in phoundation's bitcoind [13:28]
mircea_popescu o hey good idea. why didn't i think of that! [13:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform pieter wuille. one of the more sane people involved. [13:29]
asciilifeform looks vaguely east asian in his github icon [13:29]
asciilifeform aha [13:29]
mircea_popescu currently doing something on sillycon funds with gmaxwell as a public whore. [13:29]
asciilifeform seems like he wrote most or all of the post-0.5.3 stuff that actually works [13:29]
asciilifeform e.g., the stuff i backported [13:29]
mircea_popescu yes, a supermajority. bluematt did mopst of the post 0.5.3 testing that's not retarded, [13:29]
mircea_popescu and there;'s a coupla more folks i wouldn' [13:30]
mircea_popescu t negrate on sight [13:30]
asciilifeform uptimes << who is surprised ? [13:30]
mircea_popescu who with a clue is ever surprised by the facts of any matter in discussion ? [13:30]
asciilifeform by definition, lol [13:31]
mircea_popescu but the point is, since some of the brighter young minds on forum have taken to reading the logs, pointing out the plain obvious now and again is god's work [13:31]
asciilifeform ergo the experiment described in this_is_lame.txt - probably did not say anything new to the folks here, but may benefit the students [13:32]
jurov phoundation's seeds replaced with this_is_lame.txt, distributed [13:32]
jurov mircea can do the same to get his email out [13:32]
asciilifeform << ty jurov [13:32]
assbot ... ( ) [13:32]
mircea_popescu jurov im reading the logs see why my email died, haven't gotten therer yet but will presently. [13:33]
mircea_popescu "All programs have been written, and that program is Lisp. With perfection already attained, implementation is left to the ignorant who do not already know the truth of this." << shit, now i know why i don't code. [13:34]
mircea_popescu "solved problem' [13:35]
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mircea_popescu fluffypony: no no wait, BarnacleChains << win. [13:37]
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asciilifeform 262474. [13:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: jurov: without so much as a burp. << you knoiw you keep saying this, but it's an email drop. how would you want it to burp ? [13:37]
mircea_popescu if it did, how would you hear it. [13:37]
asciilifeform it has no mouth [13:37]
asciilifeform cannot burp [13:37]
asciilifeform but frustrating. [13:37]
mircea_popescu short of implementing the phantomcircuit hack and emailing everyone who ever emailed it anythging the whole error log every time [13:37]
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asciilifeform at least we oughta bake a 'lint' for these msgs [13:37]
asciilifeform i'll probably do it [13:38]
mircea_popescu punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?" << just checking the line's still live. [13:38]
thestringpuller !s this_is_lame.txt [13:39]
assbot 1 results for 'this_is_lame.txt' : [13:39]
TomServo I noticed a fully-synced node maintains its IRC connection. I was curious if that's desirable, and also if that means you're made a candidate to fill other nodes? [13:39]
jurov asciilifeform: how do you propose the lint would work? run on saved mailbox? [13:40]
mircea_popescu TomServo the latter yes. [13:41]
jurov in any webmail, you can save the finished message as draft and then try to gpg verify the text. that should take care of 90% of above problems [13:42]
mircea_popescu jurov << pastebin of original [13:44]
assbot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The enclosed 1386667 bytes f - ... ( ) [13:44]
mircea_popescu chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << better than darmkail and other bs at any rate. [13:46]
mircea_popescu punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx << no. there's exactly no reason for deedbot to have block awareness. if the tx disappears, it should not notice. [13:47]
mircea_popescu so that we will. [13:47]
mircea_popescu jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of <<< specification made to accomodate the implementation. welcome to the world of braindamage, or where do you think civil engineers that flunked go ? computer science! [13:48]
mircea_popescu "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever. [13:48]
mircea_popescu PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website. << not substantially different from the "scan the web" notion. more democracy. [13:49]
mircea_popescu a node of unknown provenance doesn't exist. [13:50]
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mircea_popescu would you eat a chunk of cheesy-looking substance you found on the sidewalk ? [13:50]
trinque punkman: "droned" << heh, I just got a call from a weird number saying they received a package addressed to me [13:50]
trinque ...anthrax! [13:50]
mircea_popescu why then would you read nobody's opinion in the newspaper or try to digest a random chunk of online nonsense. [13:50]
trinque mircea_popescu: and apparently [13:53]
mircea_popescu jurov btw i can guarantee my client did no skullduggery to the email. i have the outgoing saved as sent by the mta. [13:53]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: i am suprised list has nothing under 0.8 [13:53]
assbot Greencodds Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( ) [13:53]
thestringpuller does this mean phoundation is trying to hijack nodes? [13:53]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller it [13:54]
mircea_popescu 's not a very good list. [13:54]
thestringpuller Iterpret the results for me [13:54]
jurov mircea_popescu: your pastebin doesn't verify [13:54]
mircea_popescu eh get out ?! [13:54]
jurov show raw, saved it and... bad sig [13:55]
mircea_popescu jesuswtf [13:55]
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mircea_popescu well... resigning [13:58]
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mircea_popescu ok my client is doing some unspecified mangling somewhere wtf. [14:01]
mircea_popescu jurov resent, with signed material attached as file. still nothing there apparently. [14:04]
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mircea_popescu artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections. << sounds pretty good. [14:05]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [14:07]
asciilifeform jurov: lint would be run locally. by the rest of us. [14:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform << check that out. [14:10]
assbot Erik Naggum ... ( ) [14:10]
mircea_popescu funny how things change. "PaulGraham's evil twin." ? rly ? [14:10]
asciilifeform email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project << would have to be present at every hop of the message. a direly implausible project, sadly [14:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform just let it SEND what you want. [14:11]
mircea_popescu you know ? i'm all ready to go back to bang paths over here. [14:11]
TomServo he railed against using period << ?! [14:12]
mircea_popescu just as long as i get back the control, i see no problem with !derp!herp!router!alf [14:12]
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asciilifeform "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever. << the space scuttle was, according to legend, sized so that the typical american bridge could safely pass it. likewise legend holds that this was just short of true, and many bridges (not to mention roads) had lives considerably shortened by the scuttle [14:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you mean the shuttle ?! [14:14]
asciilifeform aye [14:15]
mircea_popescu it lands at an airport like everything else dunnit ? [14:15]
TomServo "Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified. (At least COBOL and SQL managed to use a period.)" heh [14:15]
asciilifeform the tanks [14:15]
asciilifeform had to travel [14:15]
asciilifeform for political reasons - full [14:15]
asciilifeform then it was assembled and launched [14:15]
asciilifeform every time. [14:15]
* asciilifeform thought this was commonly known [14:16]
asciilifeform perhaps not outside of gringolandia [14:16]
mircea_popescu oh oh [14:16]
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mircea_popescu TomServo i dunno why he's so strung up on it ; semicolon is perfectly fine way to end things ; it also happens to be the traditional english ending of "separable entities that are for ulterior reasons strung together". [14:17]
asciilifeform !up the_scourge [14:17]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [14:17]
TomServo Came across that looking for a tirade against the period - asciilifeform any help? [14:18]
asciilifeform TomServo: can't recall such a thing [14:18]
the_scourge rehi [14:18]
the_scourge need to put a warning about needing a cloak in this chan :) [14:18]
asciilifeform we used to have one [14:19]
asciilifeform then ddoser took a vacation, it sorta vanished [14:19]
the_scourge um... recently? as in the last 5 hours? :) [14:19]
the_scourge i JUST got ddos'd once last night and twice earlier today [14:20]
asciilifeform then we can presume he's back in business. [14:20]
the_scourge yes very much so [14:20]
mircea_popescu more like back in hobby. [14:20]
asciilifeform the_scourge: didja measure? [14:20]
the_scourge and it was one of the more impressive ones i've ever seen, and i used to see top quality ones on a daily basis [14:21]
the_scourge asciilifeform: it totally saturated at least 2 full gigabit fibre terminii [14:21]
mircea_popescu packet count is more on point. [14:21]
asciilifeform the_scourge: from packet dumps taken by myself and at least 2 other folks here, appears that mr. ddos uses mainly 'amplification' method (ssdp, ntp) [14:22]
the_scourge but what's most interesting is the shape of the traffic and the packets... i was plugged into a sub-campus and it would appear that it was using dynamic discovery protocol over http for amplification (using any device that supports it) [14:22]
asciilifeform it is actually a bit hard to take a proper capture of ddos (as in, all or even most of the packets) with common equipment [14:23]
the_scourge yes it was ssdp, i couldn't remember (brain fart and i'm home chilling) [14:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73600 @ 0.0003716 = 27.3498 BTC [-] [14:23]
the_scourge asciilifeform: the network guys at $my_client are actually top-notch [14:23]
asciilifeform well sure [14:23]
asciilifeform but that's what makes it a dos [14:23]
asciilifeform overwhelms routing equipment [14:23]
the_scourge they brought a wireshark dump over to my desk [14:24]
asciilifeform you end up with, at best, a statistical sample [14:24]
the_scourge asciilifeform: oh yah totally [14:24]
asciilifeform the_scourge: would you care to post it publicly ? [14:24]
the_scourge i didn't ask for the USB stick [14:24]
mircea_popescu cool story bro. [14:24]
the_scourge this is a paying client. even though everything pointed to me being targeted, i still didn't want to make more noise than i already had [14:25]
asciilifeform we have at least two posted by regulars - one that was entirely ssdp (from buggy upnp in consumer routers) and another that was mostly ntp (likewise misconfigured embedded electronics) [14:25]
the_scourge oh weird [14:25]
the_scourge this definitely had ntp as well [14:26]
asciilifeform the_scourge: i've discovered that cellular modems, at least in the way they are operated in usa, are immune to this type of ddos. [14:26]
asciilifeform funnily enough [14:26]
asciilifeform (they are nearly useless for everyday life) [14:26]
the_scourge and sadly i was on a VERY VERY VERY large very flat network with more class A IPs than ... almost any other entity on the planet. and lots of buggy ssdp routers all over the place 'cause of the (phys) architecture [14:27]
asciilifeform the telco drops anything at all coming your way that isn't part of a tcp connection you established earlier [14:27]
jurov mircea_popescu: the email is out, after a bugfix (to account for application/pgp mimetype properly) [14:27]
mircea_popescu this is how it's supposed to work anyway [14:27]
the_scourge asciilifeform: yah we ended up having to use another contractor's LTE just to try to google some of the fingerprints [14:28]
mircea_popescu jurov yay! [14:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform [14:28]
assbot ... ( ) [14:28]
* the_scourge needs to get LTE of some kind but is a bit of a nutter about that kinda shit [14:28]
mircea_popescu jurov uh but how do i fin the file ? [14:28]
mircea_popescu o nm lol [14:29]
mircea_popescu found it. [14:29]
asciilifeform the_scourge: LTE << what country ? [14:29]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ty! [14:30]
mircea_popescu !up sergiohlb [14:31]
-assbot- You voiced sergiohlb for 30 minutes. [14:31]
* assbot gives voice to sergiohlb [14:31]
the_scourge asciilifeform: UK for most business needs [14:31]
mircea_popescu in unrelated news, i dreamed up a new licensing model which teh foundation and us generally might wish to consdier. [14:31]
mircea_popescu ima write it up and lookingforward to comments. [14:31]
the_scourge also, north america sometimes. but right now i just need a UK dongle that has chinese backdoors instead of american [14:32]
the_scourge do the russians make LTE hotspots? they've started making smartphones with e-ink, but it's a shame i didn't hear about it until after i went off of smartphones entirely [14:32]
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asciilifeform the_scourge: 'sparkfun corp.' sells a lte simcard good for 6 months, ~80 usd [14:32]
asciilifeform usa-only iirc [14:33]
asciilifeform the_scourge: huawei corp makes lte modems [14:33]
* ChanServ removes voice from sergiohlb [14:33]
asciilifeform !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella [14:35]
assbot the_scourge is not registered in WoT. [14:35]
the_scourge assbot is a liar [14:35]
asciilifeform get in wot the_scourge [14:35]
asciilifeform rly? [14:35]
the_scourge i thought i was... one sec [14:35]
the_scourge oh wait, i've only set up my gpg key, do i need to associate a bitcoin address as well? [14:36]
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asciilifeform nope [14:36]
asciilifeform gpg suffices [14:36]
asciilifeform are you logged in under same nick ? [14:36]
the_scourge 16:45 You are now authenticated for user the_scourge with key 300A9F6A3D0564B4 [14:37]
the_scourge ^ yes [14:37]
asciilifeform [14:37]
assbot #bitcoin-otc gpg key data ... ( ) [14:37]
PeterL aha, needs to be assbot [14:37]
asciilifeform kakobrekla, is the_scourge in the new assbot wot ? [14:37]
the_scourge oh of course [14:37]
the_scourge do i just do the same dance with assbot? [14:38]
the_scourge the docs made it seem like assbot used the otc WOT [14:38]
PeterL [14:38]
asciilifeform the_scourge: not long ago, kakobrekla finished a rework of wot. so there are a few hiccups [14:38]
assbot irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [14:38]
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asciilifeform try the '!register' function [14:39]
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the_scourge with.... gribble? [14:41]
asciilifeform with assbot [14:41]
asciilifeform see the earlier link [14:41]
chetty That’s right — 77 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds in the new survey could not name even one US senator in their home state [14:43]
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asciilifeform chetty: expect this number to reach 99+ as the residual fucks given re: political apparatus waft away [14:44]
chetty more than nine in 10 of the 18- to 34-year-olds plan to vote in the 2016 [14:44]
trinque how hard is it to pick a favorite color out of two? [14:44]
asciilifeform chetty: a good many otherwise well-informed, educated folks in late ussr could not name very many muppets either [14:44]
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chetty well it has rather ceased to matter, get screwed by the red or by the blue, who cares [14:45]
asciilifeform folks enjoy the ritual of 'choosing' left- or right-handed thread on the screw [14:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: seems like your post was originally rejected by turdatron because it did not contain a machine-readable signature for the tarball [14:47]
asciilifeform your statement that said tarball must not be used except for research should have gone into the signed message body [14:48]
asciilifeform turdatron wants a machine-readable standalone sig (just the --pgp-- block) for every attachment. [14:48]
* assbot removes voice from the_scourge [14:48]
asciilifeform !up the_scourge [14:48]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [14:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform if it's not in the signed body where did you get it from ? [14:48]
asciilifeform [14:49]
assbot ... ( ) [14:49]
asciilifeform << i think jurov slipped this through manually. there is no message body, signed or otherwise [14:49]
assbot ... ( ) [14:49]
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jurov yes, on it [14:50]
jurov it should show body [14:50]
asciilifeform jurov: that's not the problem i'm talking about. rather, the fact that turdatron could not possibly have processed this message on its own. [14:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is no message body cause when i put it in the body it got mangled to hell [14:51]
mircea_popescu anyway, explain to me like i'm slow, there's a problem with the thing as presented ? [14:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: turdatron, as originally built, expects a pattern like this: [14:51]
assbot ... ( ) [14:51]
mircea_popescu you get a hash of the file and an explanation of purpose in the signed attachment, seems reasonable ? [14:51]
jurov mircea_popescu: it is supposed to show directly the clearsigned text that was used to validate the message [14:51]
mircea_popescu jurov oh as opposed to attached ? [14:52]
asciilifeform there is (optionally) message body; then, for each attachment, there is a detached-sig [14:52]
jurov regardless of any other attachemnts [14:52]
mircea_popescu oh i c [14:52]
mircea_popescu jurov can convention be that if body is empty 1st attachment = body ? [14:52]
mircea_popescu (somehoiw i thought this was the case) [14:52]
asciilifeform i think jurov is working on that one [14:52]
mircea_popescu aha okies. [14:53]
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mircea_popescu poor jurov, he's getting stretched here. [14:53]
jurov yes, that's what i'm doing. it just insists that application/pgp is not text [14:53]
asciilifeform this was, afaik, the only known answer to the mutilations [14:53]
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mircea_popescu well it is not text, technically, because you can also send it as binary. [14:53]
mircea_popescu should i force clearsigned material be saved as .txt ? [14:54]
jurov wait, you can clearsign in binary? [14:54]
mircea_popescu nope. but i could have, and the file'd have been .asc too [14:54]
jurov yes, saving it as txt would help. but best to fix it for once. [14:54]
mircea_popescu (i imagine it goes by file extension) [14:54]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6: << comments/thoughts ? [14:57]
assbot ... ( ) [14:57]
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the_scourge will assbot search long keyids on [14:59]
* assbot removes voice from sergiohlb [15:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not surprised in the slightest ? [15:01]
mircea_popescu it's not me trying to build a parallel, closed universe. [15:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: purpose of experiment was to demonstrate the fact of. [15:03]
asciilifeform (said universe) [15:03]
mircea_popescu yup. and in that it succeeds. [15:04]
the_scourge asciilifeform: who was asserting that there were nodes < v0.8 [15:05]
asciilifeform the_scourge: no one. [15:05]
asciilifeform the_scourge: but i was digging for proof that a) there are < 0.8 nodes in the candidate list b) none were selected [15:06]
asciilifeform and found it. [15:06]
the_scourge oh yah i see [15:06]
asciilifeform punkman et al: [15:07]
assbot ... ( ) [15:07]
the_scourge why would they select such a node? surely no reason other than "this operator is keeping up to date" would need to be given [15:07]
asciilifeform the_scourge: if, say, it were a random selection [15:07]
the_scourge reading [15:07]
asciilifeform the_scourge: the only genuine oddity is that the selection process was not described [15:07]
asciilifeform or, at the very least, i was not able to find such a description [15:07]
asciilifeform in their published material [15:07]
asciilifeform if it is in there after all - i'd appreciate a pointer. [15:08]
the_scourge right [15:08]
the_scourge i'm being a mong with this !register command [15:09]
asciilifeform my current working hypothesis is that the 512-list contains 'stratfors' or similar animals [15:09]
asciilifeform little burrowing underground animals [15:09]
the_scourge i've given it my long key id... it says invalid (so quickly i have a hard time believing it even did a search) [15:09]
asciilifeform kakobrekla ^ [15:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1637 @ 0.00096996 = 1.5878 BTC [+] {2} [15:09]
asciilifeform ask kakobrekla when he awakens [15:10]
asciilifeform he is the author of assbot [15:10]
the_scourge cool thanks [15:10]
the_scourge idk man i appreciate your sleuthing and keep it up but holding the btc foundation's feet to the fire will NEVER work [15:10]
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asciilifeform what means 'work' in this context [15:11]
asciilifeform ? [15:11]
the_scourge like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago [15:11]
asciilifeform the_scourge: you will find that one of the more interesting ideas we run with in #b-a is that public opinion isn't a particularly interesting concept re: bitcoin [15:12]
asciilifeform it's rather like public opinion of the atomic bomb [15:12]
the_scourge well i take it your goal is to prevent nefarious hijacking of bitcoind, done in such a way that everyone upgrades and long after it is realized that the network is resultingly compromised? [15:12]
asciilifeform not especially enthusiastic, but it doesn't keep the neutrons in [15:12]
the_scourge which, the seed nodes would be a good vector for such a thing [15:12]
the_scourge ok, but public opinion will determine who uses what version/implementation of bitcoind, and a seed node can be packaged with said distribution [15:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform < [15:14]
assbot A new software licensing paradigm pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [15:14]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes mod6 ^ does that sound like something teh foundation might support ? [15:14]
asciilifeform the protocol is sufficiently well-designed, and vintage nodes sufficiently abundant (esp. among miners) that said hijacking presents little more than an annoyance at present (see mod6's experiment last night.) [15:14]
the_scourge is the experiment discussed in last night's logs? [15:14]
asciilifeform but it does not follow that, if you can hear mice in the walls but have not yet discovered their turds in your cupboards - mice are harmless and ought to be let alone [15:14]
asciilifeform the_scourge: yes [15:15]
mircea_popescu like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago << public opinion only matters in fiat backed worlds. [15:15]
mircea_popescu in gold backed words, that game wasn't lost, nor was it ever played. [15:15]
the_scourge right so you're saying nefarious things are being attempted but the attempts are hopeless even within the main branch of blockchain [15:16]
mircea_popescu part of why we're here is exactly that : making paper money impossible -> making the welfare governments impossible -> making the "public oppiunion" impossible -> undo the numerous errors of the 20th century. [15:16]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: right, i was talking about the world at large. you can stick a fork in journalistic integrity, it's done [15:16]
the_scourge er, maybe i blame the mob more than their journalists... whatever [15:16]
mircea_popescu you can also stick a fork in "representative democracy" equally done. [15:17]
the_scourge 20th century? a bit myopic? otherwise i agree [15:17]
mircea_popescu jurov o splendid, i got a mod notice and everything. i like how this works. [15:18]
mircea_popescu !up Jrum [15:18]
-assbot- You voiced Jrum for 30 minutes. [15:18]
* assbot gives voice to Jrum [15:18]
the_scourge wanting to undo the new deal and sufferage etc only makes you a slightly redder republican, or a backbencher tory [15:18]
* assbot removes voice from the_scourge [15:19]
asciilifeform !up the_scourge [15:19]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [15:19]
mircea_popescu im neither. i'm a fucking guelph. that's a white flag you see behind, and the battle is for imperial immediacy not bs. [15:20]
the_scourge ok, so other than the microscope paper (which is a bit high-level) what exactly can/should/could be done with bitcoin itself? why not just skip to working on the other stuff and let the existing bitcoin maintainers work out their shit. there are plenty of people who oppose the foundation already [15:21]
asciilifeform which is the 'other stuff' [15:21]
the_scourge imperial immediacy ... gonna have to look that one up :) [15:21]
asciilifeform particle physics ? [15:21]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i propose name 'piratic license' [15:22]
the_scourge asciilifeform: comms, hardware, 'corporate' governance, sovereignty techology [15:22]
asciilifeform or, if you prefer something more orcish, the hajduk licence. [15:22]
asciilifeform the_scourge: this means bitcoin in much the same way that computing means semiconductor. [15:23]
the_scourge admittedly, that last one consists of 'shit that already exists' - small unit tactics. but a lot of it is high-tech and needs work [15:23]
adlai aegis AlexWkz Alina-malina Anduck artifexd asciilifeform assbot Azelphur [15:23]
asciilifeform bitcoin - the actual bitcoin, that, contrary to popular notion, still functions - is the semiconductor for all of these. [15:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah, let them come up with that. [15:23]
chetty when did Erik Voorhees get to be a 'VC' ? [15:23]
mircea_popescu name should be based on the actual world not on the current [15:23]
mircea_popescu chetty perhaps once stalin gave him a license ? [15:24]
the_scourge a victoria cross ... omg [15:24]
* asciilifeform likes names based on distant pasts [15:24]
mircea_popescu the_scourge the notion that anyone works on bitcoin or in any manner relevant to bitcoin outside of this channel is laughable on its face. [15:24]
asciilifeform the_scourge: 'vc' around here typically refers to the american financial term [15:25]
the_scourge cool, can you clarify? i like prose so feel free to link [15:25]
asciilifeform 'venture capital' [15:25]
the_scourge asciilifeform: i know i make good joke!? [15:25]
asciilifeform it's more sad than funny [15:25]
asciilifeform though i prefer 'vulture capital' [15:26]
chetty well last I heard he was a convict, so I guess we know who is greasing his palm [15:26]
mircea_popescu never went to trial did he ? [15:26]
asciilifeform chetty: iirc he was fined in a civil court [15:27]
chetty plea afaik [15:27]
asciilifeform more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter [15:27]
asciilifeform but - ianal! [15:27]
asciilifeform in ru world this is called 'administrative penalty' [15:27]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: can you elaborate on your assertion? i don't like making assumptions [15:28]
chetty riiight, and I am sure he will now be a good boy [15:28]
asciilifeform (possible criminal complaint if you don't pay, and referred to collections apparatus as a civil debt) [15:28]
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mircea_popescu the_scourge which one [15:29]
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the_scourge "the notion that anyone" [15:30]
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mircea_popescu seems pretty plain. [15:30]
the_scourge ok well define 'bitcoin' then in the context... like it or not LOTS of people are working on lots of implementations which lots of people are using/will use [15:31]
the_scourge so if we're talking about the main fork of the chain, then... idk you have to ellaborate [15:32]
asciilifeform the_scourge: you may be aware that bitcoin network does not function by 'vote' of the nodes. [15:32]
asciilifeform but in a rather different way [15:32]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [15:33]
mircea_popescu define bitcoin ?! any and all blockchain based, mining enforced, elecrtronic currencies. [15:33]
kakobrekla the_scourge see pm. [15:33]
mircea_popescu the particulars are discussed in [15:33]
assbot The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [15:34]
mircea_popescu the generals are that you can have only one monetized good [15:34]
mircea_popescu all the others are derivatives of its monetization, they can't have their own. [15:34]
the_scourge i read that article, it seemed to be saying that smaller POW protocols would always be subject to hardness attacks [15:35]
mircea_popescu more generally, that nothing other than bitcoin can really exist [15:35]
asciilifeform see also the works of tom schelling [15:36]
asciilifeform (game theorist) [15:36]
mircea_popescu or whatever, five centuries of macroeconomics discussions. [15:37]
asciilifeform n centuries of geometrywank < euclid [15:37]
mircea_popescu they just hold some sentimental appeal for me :) [15:37]
mircea_popescu sorta like redditard'd go "see collected manga works" or w/e. [15:38]
the_scourge right, but for the issue at present: POW will always be vulnerable to hardness attacks, because there are bad?unlikeable?big? people in the world who can do a lot of work and ruin the fun for everyone, even if we ignore their fork of the chain. btc got very lucky in that it slipped under the radar, but that will never happen again in history. the wardens have been alerted [15:39]
the_scourge am i ... doing it justice? so far? [15:39]
mircea_popescu bitcoin stable state is where > 50% of all energy generated on planet earth goes to mininmg. [15:39]
the_scourge right [15:39]
mircea_popescu and it won't be "the wardens" [15:40]
mircea_popescu the wardens are dead. the invisible hand however... myeah. [15:40]
mircea_popescu you can always derive a profit by attacking unmonetized goods, or rather ; by exploiting the false claim of anyone putting forth an unmonetized good as money. [15:41]
mircea_popescu as soros proved for the benefit of the bank of england. [15:41]
mircea_popescu which is why i don't particularly mind gavin trying to create a scamcoin, nor whatever "public oppinion" support he may muster. [15:42]
mircea_popescu more money is always welcome. [15:42]
ben_vulpes ah jesus [15:42]
ben_vulpes over a thousand log lines [15:42]
mircea_popescu good stuff too. [15:42]
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the_scourge !rate kakobrekla 1 helped me register [15:45]
assbot the_scourge is not registered in WoT. [15:45]
ben_vulpes !b 2 [15:45]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [15:45]
ben_vulpes humbug. [15:45]
the_scourge wut [15:46]
asciilifeform the_scourge: gotta be in wot and logged in to press that button [15:46]
asciilifeform thinkaboutit [15:46]
the_scourge yah ... i thought i was (again) [15:46]
kakobrekla err, there is no session to be 'logged in' [15:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there;s no logged in [15:46]
asciilifeform else every sp4mz0r would be rated $maxint [15:46]
mircea_popescu damned. [15:46]
asciilifeform well authenticated [15:46]
mircea_popescu mnop :D [15:46]
kakobrekla neg [15:46]
mircea_popescu yay! [15:46]
kakobrekla stfu [15:46]
the_scourge !rate kakobrekla 1 helped me register [15:47]
assbot You must be rated before you can rate. [15:47]
kakobrekla aha! [15:47]
kakobrekla see, it works. [15:47]
the_scourge yay! [15:47]
trinque m-my blockchain... 'tis to the 18th of the present month! [15:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 200 @ 0.0056089 = 1.1218 BTC [-] {9} [15:47]
the_scourge grrr it was UX issues ... tmux buffers + whitespace.... more excuses, more excuses [15:47]
mircea_popescu trinque pogo ? [15:47]
asciilifeform !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently [15:47]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [15:47]
kakobrekla asciilifeform each auth-worthy command gets otp [15:47]
trinque mircea_popescu: having read logs it seems like everything I was worrying about regarding timestamp-transactions is moot [15:47]
mircea_popescu ye [15:47]
the_scourge !rate kakobrekla 1 top man [15:48]
assbot You must be rated before you can rate. [15:48]
the_scourge er apparently having a 1 isn't good enough to give it away [15:48]
kakobrekla he must !verify first [15:48]
asciilifeform !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.1:97ebe29eec56db08f42ab0fbddfb4b60375c862c3ec0412baac3b1e9b0f39e28 [15:48]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently [15:48]
trinque ben_vulpes and I were talking about blockchain forks when last we hacked it up, but I guess that does not mean transactions will have to be retransmitted? [15:48]
kakobrekla now you can. [15:48]
kakobrekla the_scourge ^^ [15:48]
the_scourge !rate kakobrekla 1 top man [15:48]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1906 @ 0.00096996 = 1.8487 BTC [+] {2} [15:48]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [15:48]
thestringpuller so will raising VC capital soon be viewed as a negative sign for a company [15:48]
mircea_popescu depends where. [15:48]
trinque mircea_popescu: this blockchain is for deedbot [15:48]
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mircea_popescu trinque a cool [15:48]
thestringpuller well sometimes it seems "blah raised x money" and you're like "why do they need that money so badly? Are they having trouble staying alive?" [15:49]
* assbot removes voice from Jrum [15:49]
* assbot removes voice from the_scourge [15:49]
asciilifeform the_scourge: you can now self-voice, as described in the assbot manual (message it with !up) [15:49]
thestringpuller !up Jrum the_scourge [15:49]
* assbot gives voice to Jrum [15:49]
trinque I thought I was going to have to re-chew the blockchain up from first funding each time to see whether "new shit had come to light" [15:49]
thestringpuller !up the_scourge [15:49]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [15:50]
the_scourge uh, i verified but assbot didn't announce it in here... [15:50]
the_scourge is it ok to verify in channel or is that too chatty [15:50]
mircea_popescu generally you send assbot !up in a pm [15:50]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: there is too much serial raising of funds. like its a mental illness or something. [15:50]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller you ever read that crooked timber tyhing about the bezzle was in log yest ? [15:51]
trinque thestringpuller: its like a fractured version of central economic planning [15:51]
mircea_popescu very good summary of a lot of problems. [15:51]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: if a leprous beggar could rent out space in his necrotic arsehole by the hour, to several clients in parallel, why wouldn't he [15:51]
mircea_popescu trinque quite exactly. accidental central planning and laika is alone in the control center. [15:51]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i have not. [15:51]
trinque was talking with someone the other day about how the american system of govt is a shattered sovereign [15:51]
trinque I hadn't ever thought about it in those terms before [15:51]
asciilifeform trinque: that was moldbug's notion [15:52]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: oh i see! [15:52]
the_scourge in VC news, maidsafe got 19mil ... wtf [15:52]
asciilifeform trinque: he believed in 'conservation of sovereignty' (as if energy) [15:52]
the_scourge for a bunch of scottish guys to buy their porridge with... really? [15:52]
mircea_popescu <<> read it. best primer of macroeconomics for noobs i ever saw. [15:52]
trinque asciilifeform: interesting; is he worth reading? [15:52]
assbot 2013 November 21 — Crooked Timber ... ( ) [15:52]
trinque I've seen him mentioned [15:52]
asciilifeform trinque: it depends [15:52]
asciilifeform trinque: try reading [15:52]
the_scourge trinque: imho, very worth reading [15:53]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: is this similar to female who rents out womb for having babies for infertile couples? [15:53]
trinque k [15:53]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: neh, that's honest work [15:53]
mircea_popescu the_scourge who are you anyway ? [15:53]
the_scourge i've just finish reading all of his non-bitcoin and non-economics posts (those are two things he ... isn't that brilliant with) [15:53]
the_scourge thestringpuller: also, probably best to avoid parallel womb renting [15:54]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: well what do you want to know [15:54]
mircea_popescu the suspicion being that perceived brilliance in other fields may be more the newspaper memory hole than his own merit. [15:54]
mircea_popescu the_scourge what do you do for a living, and what sort of education do you have basically. [15:54]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [15:55]
the_scourge erm well i work for myself doing ... what is interesting/profitable. was market data kernel tuning, then perl coding, now more 'devops' stuff [15:56]
adlai "market data kernel tuning"? [15:56]
adlai kernel as in trick? [15:56]
the_scourge in another life it was all systems programming etc but then i decided to go to the UK and join the Royal Marines... really really long story [15:56]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: leprous beggar sounds more like undead beggar in your instance then. [15:56]
the_scourge kernel as in... the linux kernel [15:56]
* adlai doesn't see the connection between "linux kernel" and "market data", but if that's interesting/profitable, glhf [15:57]
mircea_popescu i c. [15:57]
the_scourge and for education... fuck that seems like a long time ago but among other things i did a masters in ancient philosophy, languages and regilion. studied greek and aramaic and history as well [15:58]
the_scourge to be honest i just did the studies to get away from computers for a few hours a day.... also to answer the big questions in life [15:58]
the_scourge meh [15:59]
mircea_popescu !rate the_scourge 1 легальные резиденты [15:59]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [15:59]
the_scourge adlai: oh, i should have said there was custom hardware involved. and 48 core bulldozer CPUs (bad decision, but made before i arrived) [15:59]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.the_scourge.1:33e0ab5465f7642a6e1ae13ba6bbb73a29cd777a865ced5b2dfb9dd7a56197ab [15:59]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: легальные резиденты [15:59]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0l! [15:59]
the_scourge hence, the kernel tuning. csets etc [16:00]
the_scourge um what's the best way for me to find out what that says [16:00]
thestringpuller ask alf [16:00]
asciilifeform ask ru dictionary [16:01]
thestringpuller legal residents or something says google [16:01]
thestringpuller #amiclose ? [16:01]
mircea_popescu quite. [16:01]
thestringpuller ^- that's what she said [16:01]
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the_scourge right so translation helped. and i knew there was a reason i still keep a urxvt instance running, even though it's horribly bloated [16:03]
the_scourge *didn't help [16:03]
kakobrekla as requested, have some lulz [16:03]
assbot ... ( ) [16:03]
thestringpuller Qntra material [16:04]
the_scourge adlai: to be honest my time doing the market data, i was more focused on getting an inside education on the more... interesting things in the financial markets, than stacking my CV with kernel/ASIC achievements. and in that regards i came out quite well [16:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120650 @ 0.00038193 = 46.0799 BTC [+] {2} [16:04]
the_scourge have avoided certain markets ever since :) [16:04]
thestringpuller cazalla or BingoBoingo awake? [16:04]
mircea_popescu aww coin telegraph goiung teh way of what was the one they kept pushing, that was supposedly big ? also coin something [16:04]
ben_vulpes [] there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up. << calling to find people who pick up [16:04]
mircea_popescu coidesk! [16:05]
ben_vulpes [] email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << gnus, part of emacs, has worked for probably longer than i've been alove [16:05]
ben_vulpes alive* [16:05]
* nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:07]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: in your soros example, what is the unmonetized commodity? surely not the gold [16:07]
mircea_popescu the pound. [16:07]
the_scourge sorry, i was going to ask earlier but... shit happened [16:07]
the_scourge right [16:07]
the_scourge the pound gets 2/3 qualities, close but no cigar [16:07]
mircea_popescu at the time the pound was on the receiving end of german rape. [16:08]
the_scourge i know the story [16:08]
mircea_popescu aite. [16:08]
ben_vulpes [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form? [16:08]
mircea_popescu oh oh! [16:08]
mircea_popescu good1 [16:08]
the_scourge i was thinking about this the other day ... some smart people say that if there is not secondary use (no matter how minor, compared to the total volume) then something cannot be monetized [16:09]
* psychouroboros has quit (Quit: ZNC - [16:09]
the_scourge and... that assertion is true until proven false [16:09]
mircea_popescu that assertion is false. [16:10]
mircea_popescu paper dollars have no secondary use. [16:10]
the_scourge nothing has ever been monetized successfully that couldn't be turned into swords or necklaces or circuitboards or compressors (or eaten but i'm going back a ways now) [16:10]
asciilifeform the_scourge: what's the secondary use for a benjamin? cocaine straw ? [16:10]
ben_vulpes toothcoin! [16:10]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: they're not monetizable (paper dollars) - just like the pound [16:10]
mircea_popescu ... [16:10]
mircea_popescu the pound was mini-usd at the time eh. [16:10]
asciilifeform the_scourge: why, then, were cowrie shells demonetized ? [16:10]
the_scourge nothing holds their value other than the force of the issuer's military. i served in one of them [16:11]
asciilifeform the_scourge: but why does a particular army demand to be paid in one thing and not another ? [16:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform a word in your ear about "cowrie shells" : it is possible they were ever used for money. it is also possible libertard anthropologists created the pious fraud of "retarded non-white peoples also have some semblance of intelligence". [16:11]
the_scourge because they're brainwashed into supporting a certain nation (the issuer) [16:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik the post-slavetriangle use of said shells is a reasonably proven fact [16:12]
asciilifeform earlier? can't say [16:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the way i understand, they were an early proxy slavecoin. [16:12]
the_scourge there is a lot you can learn about finance by signing up to be a uniformed tough guy for one of the big two, with your head already fully unplugged [16:13]
asciilifeform the_scourge: as a boy i was fond of reading ungodly quantities of ww2 minutiae. and i remember marvelling that the luftwaffe had to pay xxx reichsmarks, for, e.g., a v2 rocket. 'why did nazis have to pay for things,' i asked. [16:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform note that merely the fact of exchanging "Shiny" for "cunt" might well be reported as "monetary shiny" by some people and 'loads of fun whee' by some others. [16:13]
the_scourge from personal experience, it's so fucking annoying though the best of us could only last a short while on the inside [16:14]
asciilifeform 'couldn't they just command it delivered' [16:14]
asciilifeform but then you learn that other aspects of physical world exist [16:14]
mircea_popescu they did, kinda. cowries played the role in africa that opium played in china [16:14]
mircea_popescu ie, earlier european governments understood the problems of unbalanced trade, and invented balancers. [16:14]
mircea_popescu but weren't stupid enough to accept the balancers as their own currency. [16:15]
the_scourge unless someone can remind me what the point of the original shells comment was, we drop it :) ? [16:15]
the_scourge the reich is interesting... oil was a big issue for them [16:15]
asciilifeform the_scourge: we have mats and adlai here, also former (or possibly reverse) army men in various corners of usa vassal empire [16:15]
the_scourge yah, i would hope putin has his historians working overtime right now [16:15]
asciilifeform the_scourge: you might enjoy reminiscing with them [16:15]
adlai "reverse"? [16:15]
asciilifeform reserve [16:15]
asciilifeform damn [16:15]
adlai ah yes [16:15]
* asciilifeform cleans keyboard and fingers [16:15]
the_scourge oh yah apparently mats is predisposed right now i tried pinging him a while ago [16:16]
asciilifeform the_scourge: point was the 'monetization' hypothesis [16:16]
the_scourge adlai: i'm one of those damn tea drinkers. well actually i'm not but w/e [16:16]
asciilifeform the_scourge: that king cannot simply order arbitrary objects monetized, or forgo the use of money entirely [16:16]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: will respond on seeds and licenses later [16:16]
* adlai still hasn't gotten paid for his reserve duty, but doing this requires physical presence at various government bureaus that keep excessively sane hours [16:16]
asciilifeform (to the latter, there are some possible exceptions, see the ancient inca empire) [16:16]
ben_vulpes [] 'vulture capital' << i'm surprised you're not making the easy poo joke here too [16:17]
the_scourge asciilifeform: yes, yes they can. hitler couldn't because his guys were getting beaten by our guys [16:17]
mircea_popescu lol "yes we can' [16:17]
mircea_popescu glwt. [16:17]
the_scourge you can monetize ANYTHING with enough mind control and military. post bretton woods, that's all we've been doing!!! [16:17]
asciilifeform the_scourge: better example - 1918, lenin's boys experimented with cancelling money. [16:17]
asciilifeform didn't last long. [16:17]
asciilifeform because it was pure idiocy. just as proclaiming a switch to edison's dc mains grid would've been. [16:18]
adlai the_scourge: what did you serve in? [16:18]
the_scourge adlai: reserve? were you in at some point? [16:18]
adlai three years [16:18]
the_scourge full time? [16:18]
adlai "various corners of usa vassal empire" = IDF, in my case [16:19]
the_scourge asciilifeform: right, that's probably a stretch too far from reality. but USG and HMT and BoE have been doing the fiat thing for a while now, and that's just one step less crazy [16:19]
adlai so yes, three years, full time, and reserve duty for the extent of my healthy adult life (unless/til i move out of the country) [16:19]
* assbot removes voice from Jrum [16:20]
* assbot removes voice from the_scourge [16:20]
adlai !up the_scourge [16:20]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [16:20]
mircea_popescu hard times in the international diabetes federation :D [16:20]
asciilifeform the_scourge: 'the fiat thing' ever tries, if you notice, to walk the fine line between scam and outright expropriation/dekulakization [16:20]
the_scourge oh cool i was going to join the IDF but they said i was too old [16:20]
adlai the_scourge: now that mp gave you legal residency, you should be able to !up yourself in PM with assbot, and that lasts as long as you're connected to the channel [16:20]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [16:20]
the_scourge which was retarded i was working on a kibbutz as a lifeguard and i was tearing up guys on their weekends on runs/workouts [16:21]
nubbins` <+ben_vulpes> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form? <<< nod, gw [16:21]
nubbins` ;;google a.l.f. [16:21]
gribble ALF TV | The Official Unofficial ALF Fan Site!: ; ALF (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; ALF (TV Series 1986–1990) - IMDb: [16:21]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [16:22]
the_scourge adlai: thanks, done [16:22]
adlai expecting anything short of retardation from a bureaucracy the size of the idf is hopeful at best [16:22]
the_scourge adlai: what unit were you in? you can reply in hebrew, no worries [16:22]
adlai [16:23]
assbot ... ( ) [16:23]
adlai pastefail [16:23]
adlai [16:23]
assbot MLRS - STEEL RAIN/BLACK RAIN - YouTube ... ( ) [16:23]
asciilifeform adlai: american version of 'katyusha' ? [16:24]
* PeterL (~peterl@unaffiliated/peterl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:24]
adlai very, very, very americanized [16:24]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [16:25]
adlai more bomblets! more rockets! firing faster! from a bigger vehicle! with better treads! etc [16:25]
asciilifeform for 75x the price [16:25]
asciilifeform aha. [16:25]
mircea_popescu lol [16:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform in their defense, they can actually use it [16:26]
adlai eh well. [16:26]
asciilifeform i could used a golden toilet too [16:26]
the_scourge adlai: i don't even know what unit that is [16:26]
the_scourge i was interested in shesh shesh tesha at the time :D [16:26]
adlai oh to be so young and patriotic again! [16:27]
mircea_popescu haha you were ? [16:27]
adlai mlrs is just a regular battalion in the army, but it used to be a special unit like that one... so there was this massive cognitive dissonance, where the higher up the officer, the more elite they thought their unit was [16:28]
adlai but the soldiers themselves were just your average shmuck [16:28]
the_scourge or shayetet13 - i wasn't young or patriotic ... and i wasn't when i got a good slot in the british military. i was having the same thoughts as moldbug, but instead of blogging about it i decided to become as deadly as possible in as short amount of time as possible [16:29]
* WolfGoethe has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [16:29]
the_scourge and actually it was about a year before he started blogging [16:29]
adlai not having actually been in such units, i'm speaking from impressions of people who were - but it seems as though the army trains people to be useful to the army, and any personal benefit that people got out of these units was mainly due to their own efforts to better themselves [16:30]
mircea_popescu that's pretty much what it is. [16:31]
the_scourge adlai: 1. i tried very hard before, during and after to get as much tactical benefit as possible. 2. you're right, and in retrospect i could have done equally well by making shedloads of money and shooting a lot, training a lot, hiring and doing private training [16:33]
the_scourge but that's REALLY fucking expensive and at the time the income streams were trickling a little [16:33]
the_scourge less than normal [16:33]
adlai heh well some kinds of training, you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them [16:33]
adlai dunno which legends you've heard about what they do to 'break' people in elite units [16:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00094379 = 2.3595 BTC [-] {11} [16:34]
the_scourge adlai: for those things, if you can make yourself do them, then you're better off than if batshit insane men force you to do it, under threat of bodily damage [16:34]
the_scourge but again, before, i didn't even know what those things were. it's more than just crawling through broken glass for miles. there are a lot of subtle nuances [16:35]
mircea_popescu you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them << not if you're a woman, wink wink [16:35]
the_scourge it's interesting how the israeli culture generally knows about some of these nuances. the bootneck culture lives and breathes them and i don't think i could have bought that for any price [16:36]
asciilifeform the_scourge: describe, for the benefit of folks in barbaric faraway lands, some of these nuances. [16:36]
the_scourge it's the ability to keep your dignity no matter what. [16:37]
* adlai isn't sure 'dignity' is what's at stake [16:37]
mircea_popescu the israeli dignitary force. [16:37]
adlai asciilifeform: i've heard stories ranging from having your nose broken, to being strung up like a pig over an open fire, to having your 'captors' alternate between putting your gun barrel up your ass and in your mouth - all of this to get you to 'break' and reveal a secret [16:39]
the_scourge so, they do things like, you spend 2 weeks on an excercise, march 12 miles into the 'theatre' with 65lbs on your back, dig holes in the ground all night, and then lie in them (saltwater) and defend them, and then do full dignified kit inspection, ready to do a multi-unit ambush/assult all night [16:39]
adlai the_scourge is describing approved exercises. i'm describing legends about what happens in elite units outside the approval and regulation of the main army bodies. [16:39]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: had to travel << Land on one side of the country ride to the other on occasion even. [16:39]
the_scourge adlai: right, for SERE training, it gets a little weird [16:40]
adlai as far as approved exercises go, the worst i had was a week spent with a single day's food ration, most of which was spent in full NBC gear [16:40]
asciilifeform adlai, the_scourge: all of these sounds like traditional military exercises [16:40]
PeterL mircea_popescu: "You do not have, nor you can ever acquire the right to use, copy or distribute this software" << should be "nor can you ever" [16:41]
the_scourge erm yah what bootnecks do it public knowledge i mean bear grylls does videos about the weird stuff [16:41]
mircea_popescu PeterL right you are. [16:41]
* adlai joined the army right after a major push for increased transparency in the ritualized torture of new recruits, so the crazy stuff only happens in crazy units these days [16:41]
the_scourge asciilifeform: i was trying to get to the nuances. not the shocking shit [16:41]
asciilifeform but who, exactly, finds the ritual torments of recruits - shocking ? [16:42]
the_scourge asciilifeform: and i'm doing a bad job of it, to be honest i've never been asked and i've never tried externalizing it [16:42]
adlai asciilifeform: mothers. [16:42]
asciilifeform adlai: that'd be it [16:42]
the_scourge asciilifeform: tormenting nods - not the shocking stuff [16:42]
asciilifeform in ru army it is not uncommon for new recruits to be beaten to death [16:43]
asciilifeform no one is entirely surprised [16:43]
asciilifeform (afaik) [16:43]
the_scourge asciilifeform: such 'training' is orthoganal to tactical success [16:43]
mircea_popescu rather uncommon by now. [16:43]
trinque the_scourge: but directly aligned with being enslaved eh? [16:43]
adlai this still happens occasionally, but whenever it's in a regular (non-elite, anybody-can-join-and-who-asked-you-anyways) unit, these days, the unit gets disbanded, officers decomissioned, etc [16:44]
asciilifeform the_scourge: tactical success, as i think it well known, is not the only thing expected of a soldier [16:44]
the_scourge trinque: not sure if it's a mechanism or a byproduct ;) [16:44]
asciilifeform there is also the mechanical aspects of obedience - or unit cohesion, if you like [16:44]
adlai well and if you want to prepare your men to die in battle, they better die in training first, no? [16:44]
asciilifeform but everyone knows this [16:44]
trinque the_scourge: seems the enslavement of soldiers has to do with the necessity of keeping them loyal/taking orders [16:45]
mircea_popescu not nearly as orthogonal as all that, for that matter. [16:45]
the_scourge asciilifeform: this is true of many places. i was lucky in that i was in a place where they glorified individual thinking, as much as possible [16:45]
trinque or... why would so many listen to so few were they not slaves? [16:45]
nubbins` asciilifeform so how 'bout running a node on the NEW raspi ;p [16:46]
* asciilifeform is not a soldier, but can hardly imagine an army having more use for 'individual thinking' at the platoon level than a dog has for beets [16:46]
the_scourge trinque: you are (generally) correct, i was just saying in the russian army, i think some of the weird shit was a result of the slavery [16:46]
trinque nubbins`: put a quarter in the swear jar [16:46]
adlai drill sergeants on individual thinking: "if there's any doubt, there is no doubt", which eventually became "if you started thinking, stop" [16:46]
nubbins` duod you could compile it for win10. [16:46]
asciilifeform nubbins`: if you'd like to run node on cpu with closed turdcore running closed turdblob at all times, at 3x the cost of 'pogo' - be my guest [16:46]
asciilifeform and for win10 too while at it. [16:46]
adlai there's 10 now? [16:46]
* adlai needs to get out of emacs someday [16:46]
nubbins` ehh who knows [16:47]
nubbins` raspi folks are touting it [16:47]
mircea_popescu winten! [16:47]
nubbins` now sure if it's "here" or "coming" [16:47]
nubbins` who the fuck cares anyway? [16:47]
* asciilifeform doesn't [16:47]
the_scourge trinque: for an example of what i mean, watch the russian throat slitting vidoes... not tactically strong [16:47]
nubbins` imagine someone using windows on an embedded device [16:47]
nubbins` imagine making that choice [16:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: phun phact. usg, incl. all branches of military, love win-ce. [16:47]
fluffypony mircea_popescu: because 9 wasn't good enough! [16:47]
trinque having been late to every party in the last decade, msft will now reinvent itself by being late to free! [16:47]
nubbins` asciilifeform no big surprise there [16:48]
mircea_popescu lmao [16:48]
mircea_popescu trinque the thing is tho, by now "free" is wholly captured. [16:48]
asciilifeform '9' did not happen because, apparently, 'windows 9' was pattern-matched by various existing code as being in the windows 95, 98, 'me' class [16:48]
trinque the_scourge: I think it's a bit of a problem to expect anything other than barbarism from those trained to execute it at industrial scale [16:48]
nubbins` i have a handheld gps unit that runs wince [16:48]
asciilifeform and therefore skipped [16:48]
mircea_popescu so they have little choice [16:48]
the_scourge asciilifeform: what's your take on the linuxino boards? [16:48]
asciilifeform microshit's denials only cemented the truth of this rumour [16:48]
nubbins` it's so shitty you actually have to remove the hyphen [16:48]
asciilifeform the_scourge: have not tried personally [16:48]
the_scourge other than the chipset, pretty good architecture though? [16:49]
asciilifeform the_scourge: 'pogo' was suggested (iirc, i suggested it) purely on account of cost (and the fact of chassis and power supply being included in the cost, pre-assembled) [16:49]
asciilifeform 18 usd for 'sata' version, 13 without [16:49]
asciilifeform try beating that. [16:49]
fluffypony ok [16:50]
* fluffypony gets out his whip [16:50]
the_scourge asciilifeform: wait, what? what are we making requirements for? [16:50]
asciilifeform the_scourge: experiment with a minimal-cost bitcoin node [16:50]
* the_scourge loves specing out low-power applications [16:50]
asciilifeform running node. [16:50]
the_scourge standalone or like that coffeewarmer thing? [16:50]
asciilifeform standalone [16:50]
asciilifeform mains plug, ethernet. [16:50]
the_scourge how would you get an asci into a pogo [16:51]
the_scourge does it have sata? [16:51]
asciilifeform this is not a theoretical thing, it is happening now [16:51]
the_scourge er and that... yah [16:51]
the_scourge woah *wanders off to find a wiki somewhere [16:51]
nubbins` node, not mining unit 8) [16:51]
asciilifeform ('pogoplug' is a small 'arm' device originally sold as a minuature nas. see #b-a logs.) [16:52]
nubbins` hm, did i order a pogo? [16:52]
nubbins` !s buying from:nubbins` [16:52]
assbot 318 results for 'buying from:nubbins`' : [16:52]
adlai using !s to extend your memory of others' words, sure. extend your memory of others' actions, sure. ... but of your own actions!? [16:53]
nubbins` oh, no, i did. right on. [16:53]
the_scourge yah i was going to buy a pogo for nas work at home. but then i spent $way_too_much_fiat and built a xeon one instead [16:53]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter << Basically this is my read of the Erik situation. Govt settled because all they could get was the headline and token cash. [16:53]
nubbins` adlai it's all a fog [16:53]
* adlai finds himself wishing for !s in irl conversations now [16:53]
the_scourge ok i'm looking on that site for a wiki... where can i find out > why nodes, and not miners? [16:54]
adlai it's gotten me grepping a lot more though, which is good [16:54]
nubbins` the_scourge because mining at the personal level is retarded, but running a node is not. [16:54]
mircea_popescu adlai the same process ruined me for books. i'm like "fucking paper no grep" [16:54]
the_scourge what's the benefit to running a node? having the whole blockchain? [16:54]
* asciilifeform cheats by maintaining a grep-able copy of most books [16:54]
nubbins` the_scourge among other things, yes [16:54]
asciilifeform to go along with the dead tree [16:54]
mircea_popescu the_scourge generally the advice given to noobs is to read the logs for six months to a year. [16:54]
the_scourge asciilifeform: greppable?? in what format? [16:55]
mircea_popescu think of it as a sort of "crawling through glass". [16:55]
asciilifeform the_scourge: generally, ascii [16:55]
nubbins` ;;google saw needle pit [16:55]
gribble Saw II Needle Pit - YouTube: ; Saw 2 (5/9) Movie CLIP - The Needle Pit (2005) HD - YouTube: ; SAW II making of The Needle Pit Scene - YouTube: [16:55]
asciilifeform (well, utf-8. a good deal are in non-latin script) [16:55]
nubbins` ^ think of it as this [16:55]
mircea_popescu whatever you think of it as, stfu and go do it now. [16:55]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs [16:55]
asciilifeform what's the benefit to running a node? << start with the fact that if you haven't a node, you aren't using bitcoin. [16:55]
adlai my book-buying process (when i'm in an actual bookstore and can flip through the book) is made or broken by the quality of the index [16:55]
nubbins` incidentally, that scene is why i stopped watching Saw movies [16:56]
the_scourge i'm a bit more interested in asciilifeform's book buying process right now [16:56]
mircea_popescu adlai still. even people with good indedices, what are they going to put in there ? can't make it half the book. [16:56]
asciilifeform without node, you are stuck asking someone with a node to use it for you (or, more commonly, he merely pretends to) [16:56]
the_scourge yah [16:56]
asciilifeform the_scourge: learn ru, bookz immediately become something you get for free, instantly, and in grepable plain ascii. [16:56]
the_scourge last time i was involved, people had the same concerns, but on the miner side of things [16:57]
adlai mircea_popescu: right, it's more that i'll find some really interesting book, get all excited about reading it, and then change my mind when i see a three page index [16:57]
asciilifeform adlai: obligatory naggum >>>> [16:57]
assbot Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile." - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [16:57]
mircea_popescu guile!? [16:58]
nubbins` from street fighter [16:58]
asciilifeform ^ post was not actually about guile [16:59]
* ivok ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:59]
asciilifeform (naggum fought a long usenet war against 'scheme' fanatics. 'guile' is a scheme interpreter.) [16:59]
mircea_popescu anyway. [16:59]
adlai the only good thing i have to say about scheme is that it's abstruse enough that sometimes college students pay me to write it for them :) [17:00]
mircea_popescu complex specs are in no sense better. the only thing a very complicated spec shows is that the designer did not understand the overwhelming importance of not specifying. [17:00]
mircea_popescu that's the main task of spec work : avoiding doing anything as much as humanly possible. [17:00]
the_scourge adlai: 'college students' < doesn't tell us anything [17:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with 'the spec is the implementation' crapolade [17:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nope! [17:01]
adlai the_scourge: "people who work a part-time job so they can fund another person's part-time job doing their homework" [17:01]
asciilifeform not that a spec arrived at via the usual idiot committees is any better [17:01]
mircea_popescu that's how you end up with small programs that do clear things and without a userbase that "has come to expect" [17:01]
asciilifeform but the only proper spec is a) actual spec b) fits in head c) because was created by actual person [17:01]
asciilifeform (or at most, two or three) [17:02]
mircea_popescu i defy you to find a spec anywhere in use in the shitstack today that manages to not include things it really has no business specifying. [17:02]
mircea_popescu and the problem is even more visible in dictionaries (as definitions are simply the specifications of words). never is it the case a dictionary manages to not include extraneous nonsense in the soup [17:03]
mircea_popescu take the definition of dictionary : [17:04]
assbot Cambridge Free English Dictionary and Thesaurus ... ( ) [17:04]
mircea_popescu "a book containing the words of a language alphabetically arranged, with their meanings etc" [17:04]
mircea_popescu leaving aside that there's no etc allowed ; A BOOK ? why the fuck is it a book. [17:04]
mircea_popescu it's not a book, it's a list. and it doesn't have to be alphabetically sorted. [17:04]
mircea_popescu dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations." [17:05]
adlai a little relevant, and then i must break scalpl manually if it won't do so of its own accord: [17:05]
assbot Experience the power of a bookbook™ - YouTube ... ( ) [17:05]
mircea_popescu there's not even any need to specify it actually contains definitions. the quality of the definitions distinguishes a good implementation from a bad one and that's all. [17:06]
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asciilifeform [17:06]
assbot #b-a student excerpt - ... ( ) [17:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ^ [17:07]
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* asciilifeform learns to explain things possibly [17:08]
mircea_popescu i see little in there other than "agend desperate to create personal raport as attempts to control teh public venue aren't working for ununderstood reasons that look scary." [17:08]
the_scourge i wish i had saved my credit for you asciilifeform [17:09]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't much care if all the n00bs are american generals. let'em learn a little. [17:09]
mircea_popescu sure, no broblem. [17:09]
asciilifeform i only dislike them when they're annoying and illiterate. [17:10]
mircea_popescu earnest effort never killed anyone. except of course in soviet russia. [17:10]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: true but we all bring different things to the table, i could write a book on NRx history, philosophy etc: that is proof of hard work done [17:11]
nubbins` hey now [17:11]
nubbins` we all don't bring something to the table [17:11]
mircea_popescu "could" is usagitalk. [17:12]
the_scourge which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical [17:12]
mircea_popescu nubbins` except lasers. [17:12]
nubbins` o o right [17:12]
the_scourge does assbot have a glossary? for things like usagitalk? [17:12]
punkman yes it's called logs [17:13]
asciilifeform the_scourge: the concept of 'proof of work' as it pertains to bitcoin is a very well-defied, mechanical thing. as in, machine-verifiable. [17:13]
nubbins` <+mircea_popescu> dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations." <<< why does it have to be exhaustive? [17:13]
adlai !s jargon [17:13]
assbot 24 results for 'jargon' : [17:13]
trinque asciilifeform: this student appreciates the pasted lesson [17:13]
asciilifeform the_scourge: if you do not know this, you are far behind in your studies [17:13]
mircea_popescu nubbins` the only thing that makes you go "this isn't a fucking dictionary" is if you look for a word that should be in but isnt [17:13]
asciilifeform *defined [17:13]
nubbins` by that measure, i've got 3,000-page beasts that are not dictionaries [17:13]
mircea_popescu quite. [17:13]
mircea_popescu note that they usually explain their limitations. "A dictionary of 1900 London argot" won't contain nixonisms [17:14]
nubbins` and a page from a word-a-day calendar with the word "grok" defined, that occasionaly *is* a dictionary [17:14]
adlai my dad has not one but TWO dictionaries that require a magnifying glass to read the copy [17:14]
mircea_popescu however, the absence of "chthulhu" from there will be regarded as prima facie proof that the word in question was in fact not 1900s london argot. [17:14]
adlai old school OEDs [17:14]
[]bot Bet created: "BTC to rise vs USD in February" [17:14]
the_scourge mircea_popescu: jargon studies? i did read the jargon file front to back if that's what you mean. long long time ago though [17:14]
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nubbins` ;;google dictionary of newfoundland english [17:14]
gribble Dictionary of Newfoundland English Online: ; Alphabetical Index: Dictionary of Newfoundland English: ; Search: Dictionary of Newfoundland English: [17:15]
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mircea_popescu and now im off to trilemize the dictionary/spec discussion, if anyone wants to be in ask now. [17:15]
adlai the_scourge: generally doing a log search via !s or will help you find context for words or ideas that seem out of place [17:15]
assbot Search the #bitcoin-assets log [17:15]
nubbins` mp quote me saying some people don't bring shit to the table [17:16]
nubbins` it helps to add context [17:16]
[]bot Bet placed: 3 BTC for Yes on "BTC to rise vs USD in February" Odds: 99(Y):1(N) by coin, 99(Y):1(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,994. [17:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sure [17:16]
mircea_popescu lol [17:16]
nubbins` try to incorporate the word "sleeveen" into the article as well [17:17]
mircea_popescu why sleeveen ?! [17:17]
the_scourge adlai: thanks i'll start doing that :) [17:18]
* nubbins` shrugs [17:18]
nubbins` it's in the dictionary of newfoundland english [17:18]
punkman asciilifeform: satoshi's miner is valuable for the same reasonas the rest of that piece of shit << is it valuable? I thought the goal was to replace satoshi's hairballs. [17:18]
nubbins` and generally when one is called a sleeveen, one does not know how to take the insult, due to being wholly unfamiliar with its definition and usage [17:18]
asciilifeform punkman: replace -after- fully understood. [17:19]
asciilifeform before can be understood - must be fully pinned down. [17:19]
nubbins` ive seen members of parliament call each others sleeveens with impunity because the speaker of the house didn't know wtf it meant. [17:19]
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BingoBoingo From the New Oxford English Dictionary database (Maybe exaggeration of source) [17:19]
asciilifeform punkman: try to understand why the pedigreed 0.5.3 has special status. [17:19]
assbot Sarah butts pulls up a chair at the sissy faggot crossdresser tea party. [17:19]
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punkman asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo? [17:20]
punkman (compared to 0.10) [17:20]
BingoBoingo [17:20]
assbot ... ( ) [17:20]
nubbins` rotophobe sounds better [17:20]
asciilifeform punkman: try reading 0.10 some time. much of the original mechanisms - mutilated beyond recognition, or missing entirely. [17:21]
asciilifeform it isn't just a matter of crud removal, after 0.8 or so [17:21]
kakobrekla punkman alfs argument is coins were worthless hence lesser chance of molestation [17:22]
asciilifeform unless satoshi, the enemy, or both - were soothsayers [17:23]
* asciilifeform does not include voodoo in engineering analysis [17:23]
punkman well that's what we want to do, mutilate the hell out of it. just in different direction. [17:23]
asciilifeform punkman: i suspect that 'gold standard' will remain largely satoshi-based for a very long time. [17:24]
kakobrekla seems more like purification instead of mutilation [17:24]
asciilifeform as in literally, any node that would result in a kg or more of Au equiv. lost if it were to hiccup [17:24]
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punkman as for moving satoshi cpuminer to different binary, it's gonna need to use the "getwork" avenue, so I'm guessing that'd be a significant rewrite [17:28]
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kakobrekla have it built in, but optionally as separate patch? [17:29]
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asciilifeform punkman: hence why i suggested letting it alone for now. [17:30]
punkman you know what'd be great? some sort of "bitcoind c++" reading guide. [17:30]
asciilifeform punkman: moving it to separate src file? sure [17:30]
* kakobrekla is unaware of how badly scattered the mining code is [17:31]
punkman for visual inspection [17:31]
asciilifeform punkman: gnarly. not only cppism but 'boost', 'bdb' [17:31]
assbot first pass mining-snip · a2745ff · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( ) [17:31]
mircea_popescu there we go. [17:31]
punkman asciilifeform: yeah separate file seems like a good idea [17:31]
asciilifeform does somebody feel like writing a similar graphical visualizer for our patches ? [17:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo? << because it's actually before the "bitcoin is important" point of no return. [17:32]
* asciilifeform did try to explain this in the devlist [17:33]
asciilifeform ( << for record ) [17:33]
assbot ... ( ) [17:33]
thestringpuller "C++ 99.5%" [17:34]
asciilifeform 0.5% silica gel. [17:34]
thestringpuller "C 0.5%" [17:34]
thestringpuller lolololol!!!!!! [17:34]
asciilifeform and food dyes. [17:34]
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jurov no corn syrup? [17:35]
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mircea_popescu hey, is hfcs on spirulina a vegetarian breakfast ? [17:40]
punkman why not [17:41]
punkman there is that whole "may contain traces of pig cocks" thing, but meh [17:41]
nubbins` "The U.S. National Library of Medicine said that spirulina was no better than milk or meat as a protein source, and was approximately 30 times more expensive per gram." [17:42]
mircea_popescu spirulina ? [17:42]
nubbins` 10/10 would buy [17:42]
asciilifeform sea cabbage ? [17:42]
mircea_popescu reminds me of that organic paper story. [17:42]
nubbins` spirulina seems to be straight-up bacteria [17:43]
nubbins` hey, we use 100% real paper [17:43]
mircea_popescu i thouyght it was an algae [17:43]
mircea_popescu The algae has actually been tested and successfully grown in human urine at 1:180 parts. After 7days, 97% of NH4+-N, 96.5% of total phosphorus (TP) and 85–98% of urea in the urine (ca. 120-diluted) were removed by the microalgae under autotrophic culture (30 °C). [17:45]
mircea_popescu this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it. [17:45]
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nubbins` heh [17:46]
nubbins` it's an "algae" [17:46]
nubbins` altho apparently this is a misnomer, as it's actually prokaryotic [17:46]
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BingoBoingo "cyanobacteria" to be specific [17:47]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [17:47]
nubbins` we're reaching dangerous levels of fake bio knowledge [17:48]
asciilifeform this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it << 'eat recycled food! it's good for the environment, and ok for you!' [17:48]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2187 @ 0.000944 = 2.0645 BTC [-] {12} [17:57]
asciilifeform << l0l [17:57]
assbot UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | ... ( ) [17:57]
asciilifeform although what is this preoccupation with 'the unbanked' [17:58]
mircea_popescu guess. [17:58]
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mircea_popescu lecherous if impotent old men have a comparable preoccupation with "the unfucked" [17:59]
asciilifeform it's a usg newspeak term that encompasses not only paupers, who have no business in a bank regardless, but also folks resisting bezzle who consciously stay out of bank [17:59]
asciilifeform so rather it's like... does english even have a word for 'unchristed' ? [17:59]
asciilifeform 'heathen' ? [17:59]
asciilifeform from perspective of priests [17:59]
the_scourge spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D [18:00]
asciilifeform in the sense of 'folks we haven't gotten a good shot at christing yet' [18:00]
mircea_popescu incas. [18:00]
asciilifeform некрещеные [18:00]
the_scourge as for it being more expensive... what a retarded thing to say. even for USG [18:00]
asciilifeform aha, i found it... [18:00]
asciilifeform unchurched. [18:00]
trinque that has to be a new term [18:00]
trinque like "unbanked" [18:01]
asciilifeform trinque: it isn't [18:01]
the_scourge no, unchurched is common parlance [18:01]
adlai unchurched, noun: a computer which does not use church numerals [18:01]
the_scourge it's part of a jargon from a very different community [18:01]
asciilifeform 'webster' claims 1657 as first known usage. [18:01]
trinque bleh [18:01]
asciilifeform adlai: l0l!! [18:02]
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mircea_popescu isn't that unchurned ? [18:02]
the_scourge Who is Irdial? good argumentation style he has [18:03]
* asciilifeform considers getting paper dictionary out of its crate [18:04]
the_scourge except for the end. kinda gets distracted by shiny misdirection :) [18:04]
BingoBoingo spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Must go in mouth. Even raw I digest fine. [18:21]
* BingoBoingo keeps paper dictionaries on shelf [18:22]
BingoBoingo spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Also even though "complete" spirulina in low in some more important amino acids [18:24]
the_scourge BingoBoingo: second point, valid. however, getting the meat in your mouth is 1/10th the battle [18:26]
[]bot Bet placed: 1.111 BTC for No on "BTC to top $450 before 31st Mar" Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.4523 BTC. Current weight: 89,044. [18:27]
[]bot Bet placed: 1.75 BTC for No on "BTC to rise vs USD in February" Odds: 63(Y):37(N) by coin, 63(Y):37(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.85 BTC. Current weight: 99,773. [18:27]
BingoBoingo How hard is carve animal, insert pieces in mouth? [18:27]
the_scourge i mean, the digestive effort [18:28]
the_scourge basically spirulina, the advantage is you have to break down one cellular wall and you have mitochondria, meat is a MUCH harder process [18:28]
BingoBoingo Digestive effort is easy. Small intestine gets pumped full of all the right enzymes to process animal protein [18:28]
the_scourge and hey i'm of the "catch and eat it raw" line of thought as well, it's just that from a scientific look, spirulina does require a lot less investment [18:29]
BingoBoingo Mitochondria is not everything. with steak you pop cellular membrane and start tearing a part long chains of proteins [18:29]
the_scourge when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain [18:30]
thestringpuller oooh yay biochemistry [18:31]
the_scourge i'm not disagreeing with you. i eat lots of meat. when i lived in a freer countries, i shot most of what i ate. you're preaching to the choir here but there are huge benefits to some of the more accessible forms of protein [18:31]
thestringpuller ATP is my favorite biomolecule of all time [18:31]
BingoBoingo the_scourge> when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain << More likely shrunk as meat became nutrient fire or not. Most carnivores have short GI tracts because meat digest faster than comlex plant matter. Cell walls are a bitch to break. [18:31]
the_scourge BingoBoingo: yes, moving to meat was a benefit in itself [18:32]
thestringpuller ATP Snythase is my favorite protein by far [18:32]
thestringpuller obligatory: [18:32]
the_scourge thestringpuller: get on topic. if you like biochemistry, tell me what is the cost of breaking spirulina cellular walls. now :) [18:32]
thestringpuller it's not about energy exerted in that case it's about the cost to build the proteins/enzymes to break them down :P [18:33]
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thestringpuller mitochondria are the shit cause they make ATP so efficiently [18:33]
thestringpuller and its a fucking mystery why the fuck they even exist [18:33]
the_scourge in animals, we know [18:34]
the_scourge ever heard about babies who don't have good mitochonria during antenatal development? not good [18:34]
thestringpuller i was talking about evolutionary. the selection process of how they end up in cells [18:35]
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thestringpuller or at least "complex cells" [18:35]
the_scourge which is why we're going to get 3-parent babies soon. which is bullshit it's just a mother, father + a different woman's mitochondira [18:35]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs << some lol. the point is that you've gotta pick up the variety speak, and that comes from reading logs in near-real-time for six months, not "some" or "a few" or "the ones i found interesting and/or easy" [18:38]
BingoBoingo Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc [18:38]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: ah thanks that makes sense. lurking is necessary anywhere you go. i thought he meant dead logs [18:38]
ben_vulpes those help too. [18:39]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes also in the news, [18:39]
assbot Why We Hate Lisp ... ( ) [18:39]
ben_vulpes the_scourge: if you do it right, you'll find yourself searching through the dead logs for further context. [18:39]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: news? [18:39]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: the_scourge: Not a bad log day to start on [18:39]
assbot Logged on 07-12-2013 13:34:41; bitesak: [18:39]
the_scourge also in the news, ward migrated his wiki to fedwiki [18:39]
mircea_popescu the_scourge the logs are actually linked in the topic. and the variety speak is [18:39]
assbot You're gonna have to learn that variety speak pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [18:39]
ben_vulpes the_scourge: not only fedwiki, but it's also got all sorts of css and javascript [18:40]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: scouting around [18:40]
ben_vulpes ward cunningham's a cool dude [18:40]
ben_vulpes seen it all, still works in the trenches [18:40]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: if you know an implimentation of fedwiki that doesn't have js, let me know [18:40]
ben_vulpes the_scourge: i don't fuck with any of that stuff. [18:40]
ben_vulpes collaborating with randos is for the birds. [18:40]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: i've been in on his weekly hangouts a few times, very very cool times [18:41]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: dude i was working on it when i still believed in randos. a long time ago [18:41]
ben_vulpes i infrequently find myself drinking in his proximity. mostly f(how often i'm at new relic) [18:41]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: plus, the technology could probably be adapted for closed communities [18:41]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: what's youre connection to newrelic? [18:42]
mircea_popescu diff between c2 and fedwiki is that well... fedwiki dun work. [18:42]
thestringpuller BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc [18:42]
thestringpuller << stop blowing my mind [18:42]
ben_vulpes the_scourge: they have an office nearby at which i drink occasionally [18:43]
mircea_popescu is that citizen global thing ? [18:43]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: It's true. Mitochondria have their own different DNA from their hosts and their hosts use them as a dependency [18:43]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: i like the branch and fork model. and we do need a non-code collaboration toolset built around that model. and we know that model works for closed communities, dictatorships and everything else [18:44]
mircea_popescu who's we ? [18:45]
thestringpuller BingoBoingo: << harvard being somewhat useful rather than handing out A's to the females who are best in bed. [18:45]
ben_vulpes which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical << bwahahahat? [18:45]
thestringpuller different cellular structures animated realistically, but colorized for distinction [18:46]
lobbes I leave to code for an hour and the conversation has moved from grepping, to dictionary specs, to biochemistry. Several of the reasons I love this channel [18:47]
mircea_popescu no nudes today tho ;/ [18:47]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes a whole lot of "hei guise, wheel!" [18:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193996 @ 0.00038159 = 74.0269 BTC [-] {2} [18:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19154 @ 0.00038415 = 7.358 BTC [+] [18:49]
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* BingoBoingo is now known as nudebot [18:50]
nudebot [18:50]
assbot ... ( ) [18:50]
* nudebot is now known as BingoBoingo [18:50]
ben_vulpes to the logs witcha, the_scourge [18:51]
BingoBoingo Ah, the weird old days [18:52]
assbot Logged on 07-12-2013 16:09:18; dexX7: looks they are serious with "50 new listings in one year" [18:53]
mircea_popescu which meanwhile exploded scam was this ? [18:53]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Hovelcocks [18:54]
mircea_popescu o i thought btcetc [18:54]
mircea_popescu ;;seen dexx7 [18:54]
gribble dexx7 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 33 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: i think i can up myself [18:54]
the_scourge ben_vulpes: what did you find funny about my PoRealWork comment? [18:55]
BingoBoingo So... Ulbricht trial is already done with closing statements... [18:57]
mircea_popescu bets on how long jury takes ? [18:57]
BingoBoingo Hard to say. Instructions delivered tomorrow. Today was also first day of defense testimony... [18:58]
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mircea_popescu well if it were easy to say it wouldn't make much of a bet. [19:00]
BingoBoingo Right. [19:00]
thestringpuller is there a bitbet for if he gets convicted or not? [19:01]
mircea_popescu lol that's not hard to say. [19:02]
BingoBoingo I'd consider putting 0.5 BTC on under 3 hours. Worried about holdout juror or jurors. [19:03]
thestringpuller lol "The jurors are instructed not to look at bitbet" - says the Judge. [19:04]
mircea_popescu ima put a btc on "over 6 hours", how about that. [19:04]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'll take that with 1 BTC for under six hours. [19:05]
thestringpuller oooh over under [19:05]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo make it. [19:05]
asciilifeform watch preet let him slip, just to win the bet. [19:06]
mircea_popescu yeah right. [19:06]
asciilifeform massively-distributed bakshish, lol [19:06]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you can even blatantly abuse your journalistic position to make moar comedy gold. [19:06]
thestringpuller super retarded judge if bitbet influences the trial [19:06]
thestringpuller or more just "powerless judge" [19:07]
mircea_popescu they still seclude juries neh ? [19:07]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: [19:07]
assbot dpaste: 1FQFE2M ... ( ) [19:07]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo make it i mean on bitbet [19:07]
mircea_popescu <<< this is of particular interest to adult bitcoiners. [19:07]
thestringpuller they try to, hence what I said about judge in future may instruct juries to stay away from bitbet [19:07]
assbot Inheriting Grandma’s House Comes With Tax Under Obama Plan - Bloomberg Business ... ( ) [19:07]
mircea_popescu specifically : if you bought 1k btc at $10, and you die when it's $1000, usg wants about 400`000, in usd. [19:08]
mircea_popescu then, should your inheritor sell it when it's $10`000, usg wants further capital gains tax. not on 9k, but on $9990 [19:08]
thestringpuller sounds like a scam [19:09]
mircea_popescu anything to prevent that ol' capital acumulation thing. [19:10]
thestringpuller this is why rednecks bury gold here in the confederacy [19:11]
mircea_popescu anyway, best gift for bitcoin he could have ever made. [19:11]
mircea_popescu i can scarcely comprehend why anyone would leave his heirs anything but btc. [19:11]
mircea_popescu it is untaxable, after all. [19:11]
thestringpuller cause the executor of the will is a scammer? [19:12]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: submitted, funding tx sent [19:12]
* BingoBoingo hopes his Austrialian Open bad luck streak ends [19:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: big fat news, usa is simply moving to the taxation system customary in most of the orcish world - levy exorbitantly high tax, and hope it makes up for spotty collection [19:13]
thestringpuller Don't you get sent to jail in the US if you don't pay taxes for X amount of time. [19:14]
asciilifeform (mircea_popescu probably knows something about the argentinian tax, even if he has not seen it in person) [19:14]
thestringpuller I.e. wesley snipes [19:14]
thestringpuller IE Lauryn Hill [19:14]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: ianal, but it is not the mere act of not paying, but what they consider to be an attempt to weasel out of having the tax assessed or collected, that constitutes the offence in the usa penal code [19:15]
thestringpuller that's how they got Al Capone. "Tax Evasion" [19:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform personally, i dun knowmuch an' i dun care much. [19:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik they fit the standard orc pattern. [19:16]
mircea_popescu im sure they murder whoever dares open a pizzeria. [19:16]
mircea_popescu since i'm not in the pizzeria business... fuckall i care. [19:16]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: the price of US passport is paying income tax wherever you live. [19:16]
thestringpuller US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth [19:17]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: just like north kr. [19:17]
the_scourge i.e. peter schiff's dad [19:17]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: always portraying the state as the retarded mafia [19:18]
asciilifeform afaik no one expat has yet been brought back in a cage for not paying. but i'm told that certain foreign banks will avoid you if they learn you have u.s. citizenship. [19:18]
mircea_popescu well it is... [19:18]
cazalla how long until tax man comes to you and says, i'm a reasonable guy, i'll accept payment for your taxes in bitcoin? [19:18]
mircea_popescu quo warranto? [19:18]
mircea_popescu does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ? [19:19]
cazalla i'm not implying he would have the authority, just when taxman might begin to believe he does [19:19]
asciilifeform << obligatory [19:19]
assbot ... ( ) [19:19]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: i thought they'd flag your passport if you get IRS audited and charged for evasion? (though I guess this is more a dice roll if it occurs to an individual) [19:20]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: if charged for so much as jaywalking [19:20]
mircea_popescu cazalla im sure it'll be something like "bitpay paid 500k usd to franchise owner" thing [19:20]
thestringpuller chetty was saying she was still paying US taxes (or maybe I recally incorrectly) [19:20]
BingoBoingo ;;tslb [19:20]
gribble Time since last block: 17 minutes and 16 seconds [19:21]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo yo, if this bet stays open until the fucking 6th, and it ends at 100k... [19:22]
mircea_popescu it'll just get flooded. [19:22]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: the basic reason why u.s. tax is generally easy to enforce, is that most u.s. folk who have money are rich specifically in usg-controlled scrip or pseudo-realestate or the like [19:22]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I have no idea for a better spec. [19:22]
asciilifeform that can be confiscated by flipping a switch [19:22]
mircea_popescu k sec [19:22]
BingoBoingo Given BitBet's minimum time constraints [19:22]
danielpbarron thestringpuller> US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth << why i can't attend conference [19:23]
asciilifeform so, the chump can travel wherever he wants, to zimbabwe if he likes, but if we were to rock the boat - a bureaucrat flips the switch, and -bam- - he's a pauper. [19:23]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform worked pre btc anyway. [19:23]
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mircea_popescu o look at that, the tax break for repatriating corp profits? aolso gone. [19:24]
mircea_popescu i guess butthurt at it not having worked at all because well... nobody wants their money inside the beast. [19:24]
mircea_popescu [19:24]
assbot FALSA AMNISTIE - JEAN MOSCOPOL - ANTICOMUNIST - YouTube ... ( ) [19:24]
[]bot Bet created: "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" [19:25]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" Odds: 0(Y):100(N) by coin, 0(Y):100(N) by weight. Total bet: 1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000. [19:25]
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BingoBoingo !up pete_dushenski [19:26]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [19:26]
pete_dushenski ty bb [19:26]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: worked pre btc << still works on all but the l33t35t d00dz, who don't need a bank for anything, are entirely untainted by usa-juice, etc [19:29]
mircea_popescu you can use banks just fine. [19:30]
asciilifeform bank gets a call - 'mr. x is a dangerous terrorist. is this a terrorist bank?' [19:31]
mircea_popescu caller gets response, "nem tudom" [19:31]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Russian Index RTS to drop under 500 before March 2015" Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 35(Y):65(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.0574767 BTC. Current weight: 51,537. [19:32]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to top $1500 before 16 May" Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.3 BTC. Current weight: 82,128. [19:32]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.47696636 BTC. Current weight: 71,999. [19:32]
mircea_popescu respectively "please direct any inquiries to the central bank of china / putin / etc" [19:32]
asciilifeform unless account holder is high in putin-wot, he might begin to have problems, no ? [19:33]
ben_vulpes does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ? << pardon? [19:33]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Foundation tax receipt [19:34]
ben_vulpes we don't issue such. [19:34]
ben_vulpes one of those zero, one, infinity things. [19:35]
ben_vulpes if enforcement's impossible...don't enforce. [19:35]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000. [19:35]
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asciilifeform i've said it before, but will say again, if 'humane' paper tax collection falls apart (and it seems that eventually must) - the old-fashioned door-to-door shakedowns will return [19:37]
* ben_vulpes wonders if this ddosser can be coerced into attacking arbitrary people in arbitrary channels [19:37]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: poverty looks good on me. [19:37]
BingoBoingo Or arbitrary things [19:37]
asciilifeform the algorithm for sniffing out faux poverty is also not a deep secret, nor especially new [19:38]
asciilifeform 'mr x, you're a registered pauper, but is that a first class air ticket you're holding? where'dyagetthat' [19:38]
asciilifeform the above is not a statement of 'history is a boot stomping on a human face forever', but a testable hypothesis about actual near-future observables. [19:39]
asciilifeform 'let's meet the auntie' [19:40]
pete_dushenski never hurts to have a rich uncle [19:40]
asciilifeform in the orcish world, if you've paid your bakshis / filed mircea_popescu-style 38 lawsuits against city hall / etc. - you're golden [19:40]
trinque w-w-won it in vegas? [19:41]
pete_dushenski found on floor with name on it, hey ppl win the lottery all the time! [19:41]
pete_dushenski hanbot or in tahiti without cell or email [19:42]
trinque better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle [19:42]
asciilifeform << obligatory [19:43]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her pu [19:43]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: The giving of false testimony - a crime, seen in Russia as small change - in the U.S. can lead to 26 years of prison. The fact that, in essence, the matter concerned a young girl who did not wish to admit her love affair with a married man, interests no one in the U.S. The principle of the machine is: do it [the crime] - receive. [consequences] the machine is merciless and incorruptibl [19:43]
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pete_dushenski @nntaleb: In 80s terrorists captured 4 Russians in Beirut.Russians kidnapped 10 relatives of terrorists, sent body parts.Nobody since messed wRussians [19:46]
asciilifeform really, nobody? [19:47]
trinque not once [19:47]
pete_dushenski usa locks up girls, refuses to "negotiate with terrorists" [19:47]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform well ... chechens [19:47]
pete_dushenski pt 2 of taleb's note was "in leb/syr" [19:48]
pete_dushenski more digestible when the claim is geographically isolated [19:48]
asciilifeform trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle << consider the implications of the well-known u.s. court case Wickard v. Filburn. [19:49]
asciilifeform which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg [19:50]
asciilifeform the one that lays claim to every drop of water in the sea, every grain of sand on land, etc. [19:50]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell peterl << borked [19:51]
assbot ... ( ) [19:51]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:51]
asciilifeform the case was resolved in favour of 'subject, you are meat and we own you' [19:51]
trinque asciilifeform: right, I assume they can and will warp reality to suit them as needed [19:51]
asciilifeform there was no rebellion, note, then, when it was vastly more realistic [19:51]
asciilifeform than today [19:51]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [19:51]
asciilifeform nor was there anything more than picketing when fdr pissed on ww1 vets demanding their pensions [19:52]
asciilifeform well, first hoover, then fdr [19:53]
asciilifeform but this is well known. [19:53]
trinque this brings to mind again my (hardly novel) thought that the usg is a shattered sovereign, rather than the absence of one [19:53]
pete_dushenski for the greater good(tm) [19:53]
trinque in that the ruler clearly always has the power to sort of speak declaratively about reality, and he/it will be mostly believed, or at least ignored [19:54]
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trinque if that exists, in other words, humans are wired to mostly receive their understanding of what is real from authority, this mode of "state" is exceptionally irresponsible [19:56]
trinque did any of that parse? [19:56]
pete_dushenski sure, except for how it might be seen to be "irresponsible" [19:57]
pete_dushenski people are religious [19:57]
trinque pete_dushenski: this form of govt does not broadcast a coherent model of reality [19:57]
pete_dushenski whether they pray to the state or science or the church is a matter of fashion [19:57]
pete_dushenski nor can they [19:57]
trinque pete_dushenski: I am saying that this religion is irresponsible [19:57]
pete_dushenski nor can anyone [19:57]
pete_dushenski it's not clear to me that reality is digestible below a certain level of intelligence [19:58]
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pete_dushenski what's reality? it's all perspective [19:58]
trinque pete_dushenski: I think we'd agree then. I'm saying the OS that's being distributed is a mangled hack [19:58]
trinque sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way [19:59]
pete_dushenski it's a pretty naive os to be sure [19:59]
trinque but some confucianism for the peasants never hurt [19:59]
pete_dushenski this os is definitely in the first! biggest! best! vein [19:59]
pete_dushenski we all have to believe in something, some moreso than others [20:00]
trinque there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model [20:00]
trinque yep [20:00]
pete_dushenski the less critical capacity, the more articles of faith [20:00]
trinque one cannot just give up modeling at that point [20:00]
pete_dushenski trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model << curious, when ? [20:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform door to door shakedowns are incompatible with the present day usg. [20:00]
mircea_popescu hanbot lol nastase. totally. he did end up in jail tho. [20:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i still don't understand why [20:01]
mircea_popescu btw : he only ended up in jail because he was a politician, and poiliticians exclusively are required to DECLARE their fortune. [20:01]
mircea_popescu otherwise ordinary romanian can just go "where from ? your mother paid me." [20:01]
pete_dushenski lol [20:02]
mircea_popescu which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg << more like the birthplace of the central planning element thereof. "we affirm congress has the authority to central plan economic activity" [20:02]
mircea_popescu the fed was similarly, except re finance. [20:02]
trinque pete_dushenski: I just spent a long time sitting once upon a time [20:02]
mircea_popescu centralism is ever the temptation of the stupid and the lazy, for very good game theoretic reasons : they know that greatness won't be oozing out of them personally any time soon. perhaps if it were all put into this box then it may ooze it ? [20:03]
mircea_popescu well, first hoover, then fdr << the pissing on veterans is a universal sport. this is why being a soldier is dumb, being a mercenary is better. [20:04]
asciilifeform i can think of at least four separate incidents where usg armies loudly, publicly, beat and often fired on assemblies of veterans [20:04]
mircea_popescu sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way << if this is true, how come gavin's not getting what he wants ? [20:04]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu centralism would be that eretz israel geese in a barrel thing again [20:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform why to which point ? [20:05]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski so it would. [20:05]
trinque mircea_popescu: if there is an objective mode of being, I am further down the mountain than it [20:06]
mircea_popescu not the same as you said before :) [20:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: showing that the grunts were, practically speaking, automata who will do precisely as instructed. [20:06]
mircea_popescu well for that matter the pioneers fired on the british. [20:07]
asciilifeform whatever 'spirit of rebellion' there was in usa, was exterminated in civil war. [20:07]
mircea_popescu all a matter of context, who fires on whom [20:07]
mircea_popescu << if anyone wants into this, bout 12 or so hours left. [20:08]
assbot BitBet - Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours :: 1.04 B (50%) on Yes, 1.06 B (50%) on No | closing in 1 day 55 minutes | weight: 100`000 (100`000 to 100`000) ... ( ) [20:08]
asciilifeform a leap of conjecture - modern usg began to take shape once the last folks who remembered pre-civilwar usa were gone. [20:08]
mircea_popescu why do you think memory is important ? [20:09]
asciilifeform just like today's phase transition in decay largely consists of the pre-60s greybeards exiting the stage. [20:09]
asciilifeform not memory specifically [20:09]
mircea_popescu a woman that remembers her time as queen of sheeba and a sow that remembers the greatness of mud make just as good mates for a hog mounting humiliation porn thing. [20:09]
asciilifeform in a seriously broken culture, generation n does not really pass to gen. n+1 the sense of being part of the same thing [20:10]
asciilifeform or whatnot [20:10]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: or else from where comes 'homo redditicus' ? [20:10]
asciilifeform orlov refers to him as 'homo sapiens lite' [20:11]
mircea_popescu from their mother's cunts ? [20:11]
mircea_popescu children are born grimy, what. [20:11]
BingoBoingo [20:11]
assbot News from The Associated Press ... ( ) [20:11]
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mircea_popescu aahahaha [20:12]
mircea_popescu waiting for the milk + cookies crash [20:13]
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asciilifeform 'Joe Angelo, a decorated hero from the war who saved Patton's life, approached him the day after to sway him. Rather than accept and listen to the man whom he had decorated himself for his bravery under fire, Patton coldly rejected him and stated "I do not know this man. Take him away and under no circumstances permit him to return."' (pediwik) [20:14]
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cazalla "They believe a Bitcoin ‘credit-check’ database, in which potential business partners could scope each other out, could be the answer." lol [20:15]
assbot These Trinity students think they may have solved the Bitcoin problem - Yahoo News UK ... ( ) [20:15]
trinque mircea_popescu: you have a hell of a way of provoking a cascade of thought/reflection with a single question [20:15]
mircea_popescu i sit on the gigantic shoulders of logs. [20:15]
trinque perhaps we find objective truth when we bump into it, so to speak [20:15]
asciilifeform cazalla: lol, the black/white-lists crapolade never ever goes away. [20:15]
mircea_popescu right ? whether ou find it or not, it's always there to fuck oyu over the mouth. with a stick. [20:16]
trinque gavin can't have shamcoin because bitcoin does not work that way, too bad [20:16]
cazalla asciilifeform, anything ever come of yifu's black/white list? [20:16]
mircea_popescu trinque but "how do you know", after all, if opinion enacted reality (or properly, if there were no objective reality past opinions) then his gambit would actually work. [20:16]
asciilifeform cazalla: no idea [20:17]
asciilifeform trinque: [20:18]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2015 19:43:16; asciilifeform: chetty: ''Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection: 'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres [20:18]
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pete_dushenski cazalla not that i've heard of either [20:20]
trinque this calls into question whether the interaction between sovereign and subject is one of the dispensation of a (hopefully better) OS, as I stated, or whether he is rather to be a force of nature which is so, regardless of what winblows they're running [20:20]
mircea_popescu whats an os anyway [20:20]
trinque as I think about it, mostly a fairy tale that extends the reach of foot-soldiers to nightmares [20:21]
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asciilifeform trinque: and the whole concept of everybody getting their mental firmware from the palace, rather than from organic hierarchy that's been around for millenia, is a 20th century evil [20:21]
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trinque I was thinking of it in terms of "go read these books" and "you know, don't steal that guy's potatoes" [20:21]
trinque asciilifeform: yep, that would make sense [20:22]
trinque "the state is everywhere" [20:22]
mircea_popescu yeah srsly. [20:23]
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mircea_popescu exactly antitethical to how wots work, incidentally. because coherence is the only possible attacxk against a wot. [20:23]
* asciilifeform digs in log, fails to find, mircea_popescu's line about state-imposed star topologies [20:23]
mircea_popescu is prolly too opaque [20:24]
assbot Advanced WoT course : how the WoT is attacked, and how it defends itself. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:24]
mircea_popescu but the idea being that sybil attacks succeed when and only when the nodes are too agreefull. [20:24]
pete_dushenski yifu seemed to go completely dark after that escapade [20:24]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform recurring theme on trilema and here, but most recently [20:25]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center, [20:25]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha ^^^ here we go. [20:25]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00094254 = 1.8851 BTC [-] {9} [20:26]
mircea_popescu good companion for [20:26]
assbot Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:26]
asciilifeform we're still at a point where a great many people alive would need a time machine tour to be convinced of anything like civilization being possible without state-at-center [20:27]
mircea_popescu "why vote for women ? because if women spend more time talking to the state and less talking to their husbands, the state will be stronger and society weaker" [20:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform amusingly, this was a strongly held byzantine notion, too. [20:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: certainly. it wasn't like it requires the transistor. [20:27]
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mircea_popescu all it requires is other peopel's wealth. [20:28]
mircea_popescu to this day i suspect xiaoping's plan was exactly 1. industrialise through giving away the products to the west. within half a century you will have the industry and they will have collapsed. [20:28]
asciilifeform 'Thirty years ago the Blimp class was already losing its vitality. The middle-class families celebrated by Kipling, the prolific lowbrow families whose sons officered the army and navy and swarmed over all the waste places of the earth from the Yukon to the Irrawaddy, were dwindling before 1914. The thing that had killed them was the telegraph. In a narrowing world, more and more governed from Whitehall, there was every year l [20:29]
asciilifeform ess room for individual initiative. Men like Clive, Nelson, Nicholson, Gordon would find no place for themselves in the modern British Empire. By 1920 nearly every inch of the colonial empire was in the grip of Whitehall. Well-meaning, over-civilized men, in dark suits and black felt hats, with neatly rolled umbrellas crooked over the left forearm, were imposing their constipated view of life on Malaya and Nigeria, Mombasa and [20:29]
asciilifeform Mandalay. The one-time empire builders were reduced to the status of clerks, buried deeper and deeper under mounds of paper and red tape. In the early twenties one could see, all over the Empire, the older officials, who had known more spacious days, writhing impotently under the changes that were happening. From that time onwards it has been next door to impossible to induce young men of spirit to take any part in imperial a [20:29]
asciilifeform dministration. And what was true of the official world was true also of the commercial. The great monopoly companies swallowed up hosts of petty traders. Instead of going out to trade adventurously in the Indies one went to an office stool in Bombay or Singapore. And life in Bombay or Singapore was actually duller and safer than life in London. Imperialist sentiment remained strong in the middle class, chiefly owing to family [20:29]
asciilifeform tradition, but the job of administering the Empire had ceased to appeal. Few able men went east of Suez if there was any way of avoiding it.' [20:29]
mircea_popescu best one point plan for world domination i ever heard. plus it worked. [20:29]
asciilifeform (orwell's 'lion and the unicorn') [20:29]
asciilifeform yes, long, but dropped here for record. [20:29]
asciilifeform telegraph - major boost to the disease. [20:29]
mircea_popescu only in a sense. [20:29]
asciilifeform it made palatial micromanagement of an empire at least thinkable. [20:30]
asciilifeform before - it would have been caligula-grade lunacy [20:30]
mircea_popescu early internet - boost of disease, mature internet - cure [20:30]
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mircea_popescu consider the doomed nature of centralism. so louis defeudalized france, forced the nobles away from their estates and relevancy, captive at versailles. fifty years later his heir was being decapitated, and the system collapsed. [20:31]
mircea_popescu a system, mind you, that had supported nine centuries of previous monarchs just fine [20:31]
trinque I read that article re: representative democracy, but it's clarified in the context of the current conversation [20:31]
mircea_popescu through horror of all type , famine, plague, rebellion, invasion, everything possible, thinkable and unthinkjable [20:32]
mircea_popescu all it took was merlin i mean mazarin [20:32]
trinque this experience of finding oneself to be using old concepts to try to label new data in the present was sort of what I was trying to describe with the meditation experience [20:32]
mircea_popescu and i'll take any bet that feudalism as promoted by b-a will take the piss, vinegar and cockroach guts out of any alternative, startingwith the usg [20:32]
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mircea_popescu and ending with whatever the chinese will come up with at the final end of it. [20:33]
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trinque I think sitting there I realized the fact of my own existence for the first time [20:34]
trinque as a sort of direct, sensory thing [20:34]
mircea_popescu lol careful not to fall in. [20:34]
trinque rather than a wad of concepts I believed [20:34]
asciilifeform !b 4 [20:34]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [20:34]
* asciilifeform enjoys mircea_popescu's optimism but cannot as easily partake in it, from the prison-without-doors [20:36]
mircea_popescu in other news, [20:36]
assbot If you've seen that many pornstars... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:36]
mircea_popescu "This, I submit, is on its own sufficient proof that pornography is a wholesome, socially representative activity, whereas both cinematography and fashion are (by comparison at least) pernicious and very, very false. And that which is false can never be art, irrespective of all pretense to the contrary." [20:36]
asciilifeform related: [20:38]
assbot ClubOrlov: No escape ... ( ) [20:38]
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asciilifeform ^ this article exemplifies everything i personally most dislike about herr orlov. [20:42]
asciilifeform why, i wonder, did he pick the indians as an example of 'the true path' and not, say, a stray dog ? [20:43]
asciilifeform he knows full well that it is every bit as possible to transform from what a civilized man is to a stray dog as to the indian. [20:43]
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asciilifeform orlov himself is in no hurry to trade his computer for a spear. [20:44]
mircea_popescu he probably got a little horny for the nude girl at dating age [20:44]
mircea_popescu not so for any dog. [20:44]
mircea_popescu ;;google beautiful savage [20:44]
gribble Beautiful Savage Magazine — Art, Fashion and Lifestyle Magazine: ; Submission Guidelines » Beautiful Savage: ; Beautiful Savage | Facebook: [20:44]
mircea_popescu hm mybad [20:45]
mircea_popescu ;;google nubile savage [20:45]
gribble Main/Nubile Savage - Television Tropes & Idioms: ; Playing With/Nubile Savage - Television Tropes & Idioms: ; The Nubile Savage | History Today: [20:45]
asciilifeform orlov plugs straight into 4+ centuries of 'noble savage' crap [20:45]
BingoBoingo [20:45]
assbot Mo. Man Arrested After Telling Black Waitress He Wanted to Show Her Where He ‘Hung’ Her Grandpa - The Root ... ( ) [20:45]
asciilifeform 'Tommy Dean Gaa, of Maryville, reportedly told the waitress, after she asked if he wanted wheat or white toast, that he was prejudiced and therefore would take white toast, according to a probable cause statement viewed by the Maryville Daily Forum.' [20:46]
asciilifeform obligatory sov. joke: [20:47]
asciilifeform winnie pooh walks into a butcher's shop, asks 'got mortadella' ? answer, 'sure' winnie pooh draws a submachinegun and spins round, round, round with it, mowing down everything that moves: 'for piiigleet!' [20:47]
mircea_popescu every asshole in a dinner is newsworthy now ? [20:48]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: LOL [20:49]
thestringpuller I'm telling you. Quit your day job and become stand up comedian [20:49]
mircea_popescu dude could be a pretty rand standup comedian. [20:49]
mircea_popescu rad* [20:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you ever tried it ? [20:50]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Apparently. "Outrage fatigue" [20:50]
asciilifeform mortadella? sure [20:51]
BingoBoingo I imagine asciilifeform's object as similar to kakobrekla's objection. Involves going outside. [20:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform stand up comedy [20:51]
asciilifeform ^ [20:51]
mircea_popescu it's usually practiced indoors... [20:52]
asciilifeform not unless everyday life counts. [20:52]
mircea_popescu it's like going to a bar, except free drinks [20:52]
asciilifeform (and where i live, it might) [20:52]
asciilifeform 'all the world's a stage' or how did it go. [20:52]
mircea_popescu nah, it went [20:54]
mircea_popescu Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and [20:54]
mircea_popescu something. [20:54]
BingoBoingo [20:57]
assbot He’s got a ‘Downton Abbey’-inspired office, but Rep. Aaron Schock won’t talk about it. - The Washington Post ... ( ) [20:57]
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asciilifeform re: inheritance tax crapolade: the usg elite does not bequeath/inherit via the usual mechanism, but rather by: [21:04]
asciilifeform !s merit washing [21:04]
assbot 25 results for 'merit washing' : [21:04]
asciilifeform i.e. send children to harvaprinceyaleton, internships in africa saving monkeys or whoever, they are then eminently paper-qualified and no one can possibly object (tm) to their ascendency as apparatchiks [21:05]
asciilifeform the process is reasonably well-documented by mr mold et al and i will not waste more space on it here [21:05]
asciilifeform except to remind n00bs of its existence on such occasions. [21:05]
mircea_popescu if moldy had bothered to run the demos rather than just too busy sitting on ass and opining, he'd have noticed this theory is about as leaky as his submarines. [21:06]
mircea_popescu run the numbers if you're bored. [21:06]
asciilifeform which numbers in particular ? [21:06]
mircea_popescu well, the ones contained in the theory. apparatchick count, ivy league output, rich list. [21:07]
asciilifeform recall that apparatchiks are not all, or even most, collecting official federal salaries. [21:08]
mircea_popescu see how many kids rich people of 1960 had, how many of them are in ivy league in 1980, [21:08]
mircea_popescu and of those how many in the apparatus by 2000 [21:08]
mircea_popescu or, if you prefer, for simplicity, work backwards. [21:08]
asciilifeform iirc mr mold does not trace the descent of modern elite to the rich of 1960 [21:08]
mircea_popescu who do we start with, de blasio ? cuomo ? [21:08]
asciilifeform in fact, specifically disclaims it [21:08]
mircea_popescu and if you say "this is midwest only" or "this is non democrat only " you already lost. [21:09]
mircea_popescu well then what's the testable hypothesis ? [21:09]
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asciilifeform posits a phase transition some time in early '60s where the 'optimates' (his term, something like 'old money') were dethroned by 'brahmins' (the folks running the show today, socialist functionaries who work 'for the good of m4nk1nd') [21:09]
mircea_popescu but. what is. teh. teeeeestable. [21:10]
mircea_popescu hypothesis. [21:10]
mircea_popescu ya know ? [21:10]
mircea_popescu otherwise teh empty rhetoric is suspect of well... that. [21:10]
asciilifeform testable hypothesis is that folks presently coming in to officer the upper ranks of the usgarchy (including not merely cia, etc. but the vc circus) , are largely annointees of previous generation therein. [21:11]
mircea_popescu unlike what, post explosion tunguska ? [21:11]
mircea_popescu that's always the case. [21:11]
asciilifeform always, sure [21:12]
asciilifeform but in this case a specific mechanism is posited [21:12]
asciilifeform sub-rosa, maximally deniable annointment [21:12]
mircea_popescu which works about as well as random chance. [21:12]
mircea_popescu suppose the converse. i have a girl with any of my women, she witnesses the life in a harem geowing up, i tell her all the dirty secrets of the world because i dfon't give a fuck, i encourage her to parade naked in town when she's 16 and so on, and when i die i leave her half a billion in untraceable money. [21:13]
mircea_popescu and this chick's not going to succeed because um ? [21:13]
mircea_popescu obviously the offspring of the powerful will do just fine, unless a) the powerful's just a fake elite ;b) the offspring's retarded or c) both. [21:13]
asciilifeform wasn't even arguing against the succession per se (next what, i should argue against snow?) but the bizarre deception games [21:14]
mircea_popescu mebbe their gaminess' imagined. [21:14]
asciilifeform mebbe my chair is imagined [21:15]
asciilifeform and i'm actually on a stake. [21:15]
mircea_popescu tell me how does it feel [21:16]
mircea_popescu to be on a staaakeee... [21:16]
mircea_popescu anywya, ima brb [21:16]
the_scourge [21:16]
assbot davecgh comments on The Bitcoin Consensus Red Herring ... ( ) [21:16]
asciilifeform [21:16]
assbot Logged on 10-10-2014 00:52:32; asciilifeform: slightly different situation here. btc user without full node is just as likely to be walking around in a barrel, deluded by dope into thinking he's driving a car (like the characters in s. lem's 'futurological congress') [21:16]
asciilifeform [insert all other known plato-wanks ever in this space] [21:16]
asciilifeform bbl, food [21:17]
* assbot gives voice to the_scourge [21:17]
the_scourge [21:18]
assbot davecgh comments on The Bitcoin Consensus Red Herring ... ( ) [21:18]
the_scourge er, sorry. irssi not co-operating with x today [21:19]
the_scourge but interesting discussion anyways [21:19]
the_scourge i was reading some really old logs and ended up mindwandering into some things about consensus and the various btc implementations. i know the xcp guys have crossed this bridge as well, slightly different angle [21:21]
BingoBoingo If we must read reddit [21:23]
assbot Part 3: Cryptsy stole me 180 BTC (Withdraw locked) : Bitcoin ... ( ) [21:23]
the_scourge i don't care for reddit but the btcd guys were engaging in discussion on there [21:29]
the_scourge who is cryptsy and why should i care? [21:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 161200 @ 0.00037484 = 60.4242 BTC [-] [21:31]
BingoBoingo !s derp [21:31]
assbot 1516 results for 'derp' : [21:31]
BingoBoingo !s ass* [21:31]
assbot 284517 results for 'ass*' : [21:31]
BingoBoingo !s Cryptsy [21:32]
assbot 102 results for 'Cryptsy' : [21:32]
BingoBoingo !s tits [21:32]
assbot 753 results for 'tits' : [21:32]
BingoBoingo the_scourge: ^ context [21:32]
BingoBoingo Sure random anon bettors go with MP on 'Yes' [21:35]
assbot BitBet - Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours :: 1.25 B (54%) on Yes, 1.06 B (46%) on No | closing in 23 hours 28 minutes | weight: 100`000 (100`000 to 100`000) ... ( ) [21:35]
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the_scourge now i know who they were and i still don't care [21:44]
the_scourge at least i'm better at unremembering things nowadays [21:44]
the_scourge 'night [21:44]
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scoopbot New post on by cazalla: [21:48]
cazalla ^^^ this guy might've been able to steal more if he had the enough coins to make it worth his while to do some friendly fraud on coinbase but who knows [21:50]
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thestringpuller BingoBoingo: what is the resolution source on that bet? [22:00]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: I guess we are counting on the deliberation time being widely reported [22:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73500 @ 0.00038409 = 28.2306 BTC [+] {2} [22:06]
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punkman another snip [22:22]
assbot Comparing master...guicruft-snip · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( ) [22:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42807 @ 0.00038415 = 16.4443 BTC [+] [22:51]
asciilifeform punkman: is that a total de-wxcrudification i see ? [23:11]
asciilifeform punkman: or only partial [23:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170937 @ 0.00038299 = 65.4672 BTC [-] {2} [23:11]
* asciilifeform total chump, came back from buying super-pleasure-led light bulbs only to discover that they won't fit in a single fixture he has [23:13]
mircea_popescu pleasure leds ? [23:13]
mircea_popescu what are you, potted plant ? [23:14]
* asciilifeform learned from a previous chumpapade that the ones molded to occupy the space taken by ordinary bulb, are laughably dim [23:14]
* asciilifeform hence bought the 1600 lumen units [23:14]
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asciilifeform ever so slightly too big. [23:14]
mircea_popescu "accidentally" [23:14]
asciilifeform not exactly. and not really a secret why [23:14]
punkman asciilifeform: punkman: is that a total de-wxcrudification i see ? << I think so [23:15]
asciilifeform (the massive heat sinks for the rectifier don't do well in enclosed domes. but idiots insisted on placing them therein anyway, torching their hose. never mind that my domes are open to 30cm of air on the top - can't allow fit! [23:15]
asciilifeform thinkofthechildren (tm) [23:15]
asciilifeform ) [23:15]
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mircea_popescu see, if only dc won, [23:16]
mircea_popescu you wouldn't need rectifiers. [23:16]
asciilifeform aha. [23:16]
mircea_popescu course the heat sink on the cables... [23:16]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [23:16]
asciilifeform what cables. [23:17]
asciilifeform bus bars. [23:17]
mircea_popescu lol [23:17]
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asciilifeform punkman: looks like you clobbered all of it, nice [23:18]
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asciilifeform << for noobs who have never heard of a 'bus bar' [23:20]
assbot ... ( ) [23:20]
asciilifeform (if you need them in jungle conditions, a copper water pipe hammered flat generally suffices) [23:21]
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mircea_popescu doesn't even have to be hammered [23:23]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: generally, one ought to. 'skin effect' doesn't apply at dc. [23:24]
mircea_popescu better fittings available for proper pipe. [23:24]
asciilifeform [23:25]
assbot ... ( ) [23:25]
asciilifeform better fittings - yes. for pipe. [23:25]
asciilifeform pipe to wire - problematic. [23:25]
mircea_popescu can always flatten the end :D [23:25]
asciilifeform i've been known to do just that. [23:25]
asciilifeform but i'm probably terminally lazy. [23:26]
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asciilifeform << general interest (arts) [23:28]
asciilifeform << this one in particular [23:28]
assbot Яндекс.Фотки ... ( ) [23:28]
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asciilifeform mega-l0l at the Yandex ads: [23:29]
asciilifeform 'Наука узнавания еврея по лицу Гид по еврейскому лицу на booknik.ru18+' [23:29]
asciilifeform ('guide to recognizing a jew using his face! guide to the jewish face on ...' [23:30]
asciilifeform ) [23:30]
asciilifeform next ad is more mundane 'hotel rates in moscow' etc. [23:30]
mircea_popescu this is somehow of value ? [23:30]
asciilifeform of zoological value [23:30]
asciilifeform i have yet to see an ad like this on 'google' [23:30]
asciilifeform or in any engl. speaking venue [23:30]
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* asciilifeform does not normally repost spam, but this is a serious new (to him) page in spamatronics [23:31]
asciilifeform as for the photo, i happen to like it. and think it would look good in any respectable salt mine. [23:31]
asciilifeform in break room. [23:31]
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asciilifeform the_scourge: reddit article << now my turn to ask, what was the interesting part ? [23:34]
asciilifeform i'm unable to find one [23:34]
asciilifeform was it the stooge, proclaiming 'Then you shouldn't be pushing for btcd in the post. Btcd is harmful to consensus. Your proposal to have miners run multiple consensus implementations doesn't require btcd to exist and its existence doesn't benefit it.' ? [23:34]
asciilifeform we already know about the spam farms. it's over. [23:35]
mircea_popescu spam is over ?! [23:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform which reminds me, you know the joke with the jew an' the big mean dog ? [23:36]
asciilifeform 'only the dead shall see the end of spam' [23:37]
asciilifeform or the like [23:37]
asciilifeform big dog ? [23:37]
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asciilifeform decimation: your cloak is broken. [23:38]
mircea_popescu a scrawny jewish real estate agent is going down the street to show a house to a customer. on the way, a large butchery, and in it a huge dog [23:38]
mircea_popescu which starts to bark quite furious. the jew stops in fear [23:38]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:38]
decimation oh no [23:38]
mircea_popescu the butcher, a huge guy with a huge mustache, "don't be afraid, it won't bite" [23:38]
mircea_popescu to which the jew retorts "my good man! [23:38]
mircea_popescu have you talked with the dog about this, or is it entirely your own opinion ?" [23:38]
asciilifeform l0l! [23:39]
decimation I wonder if it is because I joined before the cloak took effect [23:39]
mircea_popescu it ? getting flooded ? [23:39]
asciilifeform if using a braindamaged/misconfigured client, the time to stop is probably now [23:40]
decimation it's funny, I don't see many incoming packets [23:40]
punkman what's with the "(quit: Changing host)"? [23:41]
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mircea_popescu nice last words. [23:42]
mircea_popescu "duck ? what duck ?! anvil ? what anvil ?" [23:42]
asciilifeform 'hey bubba, watch this' [23:42]
* asciilifeform learned these 'famous last words' without context, but always imagined a frag involved [23:43]
mircea_popescu ;;google 'hey bubba, watch this' [23:43]
gribble Hey Bubba, watch this! - YouTube: ; HEY BUBBA - YouTube: ; Hey Bubba Watch This by Ray Stevens | Song | Free Music, Listen ...: [23:43]
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mod6 hi all [23:44]
punkman decimation: you need to use SASL [23:44]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:45]
decimation punkman: I did use sasl [23:45]
mircea_popescu use it twice! [23:45]
punkman decimation: you were already using it? [23:45]
* asciilifeform sits and contemplates mircea_popescu's software license, and increasingly likes it [23:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform have you notice how my shit grows on one in retrospect ? [23:46]
decimation punkman: ah no, apparently I failed to configure it when I changed computers [23:46]
mircea_popescu starts as a joke, which is kinda funny, except haha, only funny, except hm... etc. [23:46]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i like to think i've pulled off this effect once or twice on folks [23:47]
mircea_popescu what did the father of the girl schopenhauer was courting say ? [23:47]
asciilifeform ? [23:47]
mircea_popescu "he's a nice enough fellow, if only he were more serious." [23:48]
asciilifeform l0l [23:48]
* asciilifeform is inescapably curious re: how the license in the article would actually behave in a secular court [23:52]
asciilifeform should it somehow make its appearance there [23:52]
asciilifeform the last clause of part (ii) would probably give a traditional jurist indigestion [23:53]
asciilifeform but - ianal [23:53]
mircea_popescu actually it would in principle bar any sort of legally organised body from ever using the software. [23:53]
asciilifeform well yes [23:53]
asciilifeform no shit [23:53]
mircea_popescu so it's moot. [23:53]
asciilifeform but is contract (implicit, 'shrinkwrap', otherwise) where one promises to break a law, a valid contract ? [23:53]
asciilifeform for all i know the whole thing would be tossed, like a rich man's prenup [23:54]
mircea_popescu well but if the whole thing's tossed then they have not acquired the right to use it. [23:54]
mircea_popescu secular law is positive. [23:54]
asciilifeform but then it's just like a missing license. [23:54]
mircea_popescu no, it's like an actual unlicense. [23:54]
asciilifeform ^ good name [23:55]
asciilifeform short, descriptive. [23:55]
asciilifeform unlicense. [23:55]
punkman next we will start planning the real unmonastery [23:55]
mircea_popescu o no, that i already built. [23:55]
* decimation has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [23:55]
punkman << James C. Scott writes about this "legibility/illegibility" thing, quite relevant [23:56]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2015 23:19:43; mircea_popescu: exactly antitethical to how wots work, incidentally. because coherence is the only possible attacxk against a wot. [23:56]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu risks becoming famous as an 'anarchist' eben moglen now. [23:56]
mircea_popescu i can't be famous, for obvious reasons. [23:56]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu built un-nunnery [23:56]
mircea_popescu only the politically impotent can ever be famous. [23:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform punkman < first para. [23:56]
asciilifeform un-monaster probably can only exist in neal stephenson's novel 'anathem.' [23:56]
assbot Aseara fusei la una... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [23:56]
* decimation (~decimatio@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89394 @ 0.0003716 = 33.2188 BTC [-] [23:58]
punkman asciilifeform: see also [23:58]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:58]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2015 12:58:09; punkman: [23:58]
decimation apparently my ISP simply cuts me off if there's an incoming flood [23:59]
mircea_popescu standard practice on cheap home connections, and the only reason the shit's even effective in any sense. [23:59]
asciilifeform decimation: i'm curious how you determined that this is so, rather than the ordinary behaviour of a flooded router [23:59]
Category: Logs
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