Forum logs for 31 Oct 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

*	CheckDavid (uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-goekvifcmlftdqjo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:00]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'I have a few friends (lawyers, hedge fund managers, high powered money types generally) who make sport of hunting and humiliating UStardian college professors socially. It is a sport I would like to see extended to the middle class. Next time you're at a pretentious party and you spot some douche in the uniform of "college professor", go see if you can make him admit he's not read a whole book....' << where i	[00:06]
asciilifeform	went to school, professoring is just a (poorly-paying) job, and the folks who did it showed no symptoms of conceiving of it as anything else	[00:06]
shinohai	Possibly they stopped learning.	[00:07]
*	asciilifeform could not help but take off his hat to, e.g., the fella who put off +ev employment until he was 40 and subsisted on chickenshit wage just so that he could teach asciilifeform and other scum algorithms, number theory, etc	[00:08]
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asciilifeform	but no, you won't find ~these~ profs at anything describable as 'pretentious party.' in fact, you won't find them at the high-end grocery shop, either.	[00:09]
asciilifeform	most of'em don't even have the 'job security' popularly associated with this line of work	[00:10]
asciilifeform	(typical u.s. state uni employs largely 'lecturers', who occupy approx. same place in the org chart as an air conditioner mechanic)	[00:10]
shinohai	!b6	[00:10]
shinohai	!b 6	[00:11]
assbot	Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3QZ60KW.txt )	[00:11]
asciilifeform	http://www.shenlanguage.org/lambdassociates/htdocs/blog/decline.htm << obligatory. british, but applicable.	[00:11]
assbot	Why I am Not a Professor ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1U0MB )	[00:11]
asciilifeform	(all socblok countries are much alike)	[00:11]
shinohai	"They are in fact, the last bastions of mediaevalism left in modern society outside, perhaps, the church." <<< I like it already, because though I do not believe in God, I am somehow drawn to the church for just that reason.	[00:13]
asciilifeform	a tenured prof is prolly the closest thing that presently exists in the western world to ~titled nobility~	[00:14]
asciilifeform	fwiw.	[00:15]
v_diddy	except that if they sleep with their students they still get canned.	[00:15]
v_diddy	BingoBoingo: funny, hadn't heard that one.	[00:16]
BingoBoingo	(typical u.s. state uni employs largely 'lecturers', who occupy approx. same place in the org chart as an air conditioner mechanic) << air conditioner mechanic comparatively makes bank compared to uni lecturer, and often professor	[00:16]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: 'canned' means something quite else for a tenured prof than for the rank and file.	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	http://thoughtbroadcast.com/2011/09/04/how-to-retire-at-age-27/	[00:16]
asciilifeform	typically, anything short of a proper felony conviction results in demotion at the most.	[00:17]
assbot	How To Retire At Age 27 \| Thought Broadcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1UCBX )	[00:17]
v_diddy	anyone game to compare http://www.predictwise.com/politics/2016RepNomination (via ritzy) to the odds on bitbet?	[00:17]
assbot	2016 President - Republican Nomination \| PredictWise ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1UBhs )	[00:17]
BingoBoingo	v_diddy: Mr. Combs is not a candidate really to lecture at Ben & Pete's Skoolarium	[00:17]
*	funkenstein_ (~bowler@192.3.24.235) has left #bitcoin-assets	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it's a thing, thick jacket with applied elbow patches, certain haircut, certain glasses, laptop-like case on shoulder, open collar shirt...	[00:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no need to go far, see the case of, e.g., terry davis	[00:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: afaik these creatures exist only in hollywood films	[00:18]
v_diddy	i don't think pete's actually interested in /building/ the skoolarium	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	we're not discussing here random derp making 63k a year from community college, we're discussing here krugman or w/e his name is, the nyt resident finance derp	[00:18]
v_diddy	much less doing it to pound sense into his own spawn. could be wrong though.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	!up wbdynamics	[00:19]
-assbot-	You voiced wbdynamics for 30 minutes.	[00:19]
*	assbot gives voice to wbdynamics	[00:19]
v_diddy	;;later tell pete_dushenski ^^	[00:19]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: they come here on tour once in a spell. they don't wear this 'uniform' either.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	also these guys don't teach anything whatsoever. they mostly try to be carrie from sex and the city, except without the sex.	[00:19]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: These creatures exist even at regional colleges, check "humanities department." Seems they adopted the uniform from Hollywood.	[00:20]
BingoBoingo	http://cola.siu.edu/philosophy/faculty-staff/faculty/ << 3 Jackets in one department alone	[00:21]
assbot	Faculty \| Department Name \| SIU ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1UXET )	[00:21]
v_diddy	anyways, four days a l'hopital, 36 hours of labor	[00:21]
*	v_diddy is taking some fucking paternity leave	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	not bad for a noob.	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	also this is what you get for not favouring birthing hips!	[00:22]
BingoBoingo	Dayum v_diddy so how many babbies were there?	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	kim could have been done in 36 minutes.	[00:22]
v_diddy	i like my secular christian babes	[00:22]
BingoBoingo	kim could have been done in 36 minutes. << Not anymore. Not with the new FUPA since she let herself go.	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	baby chews right through dat!	[00:23]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: One of those fellows on the linked page actually to my knowledge draws not one, but TWO professorial salaries from the same university.	[00:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00053899 = 10.4564 BTC [+] {3}	[00:24]
BingoBoingo	One of the other jacket people may also be drawing a second salary now too.	[00:24]
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phf	v_diddy: congrats!	[00:30]
v_diddy	ty phf et al	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	"That specific issue reveals an important bias and misunderstanding America has when it talks about employment. Yes, there is an issue about people wanting to work but the other issue is that the global economy is too quick and efficient to tolerate your idiotic car troubles or your imbecilic grandmother's death or your moronic lack of child care (cue Scandinavia) or, and mostly, your stupid health. The economy was a	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	Ferrari and now it's only a Honda, but either way, not much time for absences and no time at all for Keisha's learning curve. Keisha isn't just unemployed, she is completely unemployable. We can argue whether auto plants should pay $20/hr or $50/hr, but for certain there is no market for unskilled labor at all."	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/09/how_to_be_mean_to_your_kids.html << tlp, at the top of his game	[00:32]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: How To Be Mean To Your Kids ... ( http://bit.ly/1M1VEhg )	[00:32]
v_diddy	mod6, hanbot, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform	[00:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: on the other end, there is also precious little market for... skilled anything.	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	naphex's been trying to hire skilled cocksuckers ; i've been trying to hire skilled pr ; bitbet still needs skilled bookies	[00:33]
asciilifeform	(because what does zimbabwe need engineer for ? as far as the people's republic is concerned, he's just another shit-scooper ~but with pretensions~)	[00:33]
v_diddy	asciilifeform: doesn't this thread devolve into "there's precious little market for anything not supported by usg"?	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	there's a huge market for all sorts of skilled and a large pile of people who want skilled to mean what they want it to mean.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: was trying to speak of... actual market	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	which is fine, but it also means they gotta run their life as a business.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: how else can it run ?	[00:34]
asciilifeform	i suppose there is 'as a charity' ('keisha' et al)	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	then stop bitching and make those warrants / shares worth something.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	today.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	that's the measure of skilled in a life run as a business	[00:34]
v_diddy	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-10-2015#1301924 << dude this notion that children must of necessity be -ev is a strictly temporal and american thing	[00:34]
assbot	Logged on 18-10-2015 16:46:39; asciilifeform: 'this problem will not be solved for you personally, pray that your grandchildren get to live like people' <--> 'but i don't want to have children, i want to live like people ~myself~'	[00:34]
B0g4r7	bad_duck BananaLotus BeliSK BigBitz binaryatrocity BingoBoingo btcdrak	[00:35]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: they're -ev.	[00:35]
v_diddy	"must be rich to not send kids to school"	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	v_diddy how do you plan to extract value from the offspring ?	[00:35]
v_diddy	no, don't send kids to school. make them put up molding in the remodel. they learn something, the thing increases in value.	[00:35]
v_diddy	make them shred papers. they learn something, biz gets shit done.	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	either that or they waste the consumables, break the tools and injure themselves.	[00:36]
v_diddy	has yet to happen with /anyone/ i've taught to use power tools.	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	or in other words,	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	"You will observe the Keisha does not even have the enthusiasm to know what is written on the most important economic documents of her life. "I don't know, bipolar, panic attacks, whatever they put on there." She can't be bothered to handle those papers, someone else is in charge of that. How attentive will she be to the frier? McDonalds doesn't want to find out."	[00:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the thing that i was bitching about earlier is that nobody cared to find out how attentive ~i~ would be to the frier either	[00:37]
asciilifeform	the last time i went.	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	well yeah, because you'll prolly split in six weeks.	[00:37]
*	asciilifeform wonders how far along usa collapse needs to be for this assumption to fade away	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	prolly 20 years.	[00:38]
v_diddy	tending the aquaponics, banging together a new dome, romping unattended in the neighbors fields not incurring costs...	[00:38]
v_diddy	failure of imagination, i tell yas.	[00:38]
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asciilifeform	v_diddy: it is a perfectly fine thing to have pets, there is no need to pretend that they're +ev	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	the record shall duly show.	[00:39]
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mircea_popescu	ok this is enough of this.	[00:39]
chanserv	+OP #bitcoin-assets	[00:39]
-ChanServ-	Invalid command. Use /msg ChanServ help for a command listing.	[00:39]
chanserv	+OP	[00:40]
-ChanServ-	Invalid command. Use /msg ChanServ help for a command listing.	[00:40]
chanserv	OP #bitcoin-assets	[00:40]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu	[00:40]
*	mircea_popescu sets ban on !@*.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:40]
*	mircea_popescu has kicked Guest83384 from #bitcoin-assets (Guest83384)	[00:40]
asciilifeform	l0l	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	da fuck, why did it miss a field.	[00:40]
v_diddy	how do you draw the line between pets and livestock, asciilifeform?	[00:41]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: livestock (if you've any business with them) are +ev	[00:41]
asciilifeform	milk, meat.	[00:41]
v_diddy	circular	[00:41]
chanserv	+b !@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:41]
-ChanServ-	Invalid command. Use /msg ChanServ help for a command listing.	[00:41]
chanserv	FLAGS +b !@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:42]
-ChanServ-	Channel +b is not registered.	[00:42]
asciilifeform	not circular. nominal.	[00:42]
v_diddy	that's not livestock it's a pet	[00:42]
v_diddy	how do you know?	[00:42]
chanserv	FLAGS b !@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:42]
-ChanServ-	Channel b is not registered.	[00:42]
v_diddy	it's -ev?	[00:42]
chanserv	b !@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:42]
-ChanServ-	Invalid command. Use /msg ChanServ help for a command listing.	[00:42]
v_diddy	how do you know?	[00:42]
v_diddy	well it's a pet	[00:42]
asciilifeform	aha, if you keep it around for no good reason other than that you like, e.g., its fur, its purr - it is a pet.	[00:42]
v_diddy	or if it cooks, cleans, builds, still pet.	[00:42]
trinque	you'd have to come at the thing by determining the value of your time, then the amount of time and resources devoted to the kid, what the kid ends up producing of value, does this offset the development period...	[00:42]
trinque	but I'd be fine to consider my kid an art project	[00:43]
trinque	at any rate it'll be fun to see what comes of your direction v_diddy :)	[00:43]
asciilifeform	aha. i've yet to meet anyone who had children ~as result of calculation~	[00:43]
asciilifeform	(met plenty of folks who ~did not~ from same.)	[00:43]
v_diddy	what, you calculate the worth of a twenty lying on the street?	[00:43]
asciilifeform	?	[00:44]
v_diddy	value is apparent to some people.	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	why the fuck is /mode #bitcoin-assets +b !@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net do nothing ?	[00:44]
v_diddy	mircea_popescu: enjoys programming i see	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	god damned.	[00:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00054193 = 28.9391 BTC [+] {3}	[00:45]
v_diddy	asciilifeform: are all financial products of knowable value?	[00:45]
v_diddy	'products'	[00:45]
v_diddy	cfd, futures, options etc.	[00:45]
v_diddy	no of course not.	[00:45]
v_diddy	but perhaps with judicious selection and market knowledge one can over time make some money.	[00:46]
v_diddy	farmer who has 10 children 6 of which survive, 3 of which are useful on the farm doesn't calculate either.	[00:46]
*	mircea_popescu removes ban on !@*.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:47]
asciilifeform	aw	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	this sucks.	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	i have nfi how to apply it properly.	[00:47]
asciilifeform	sux like electrolux	[00:47]
*	mircea_popescu sets ban on !@c-50-140-140-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	aha!	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	cant set a weaker one. cool.	[00:47]
v_diddy	mircea_popescu: programs like american	[00:47]
*	mircea_popescu removes channel operator status from mircea_popescu	[00:47]
v_diddy	does schmuck attempting to hedge against total collapse of local civilization calculate ROI of expanding meatwot?	[00:48]
v_diddy	worst case scenario i sell off a daughter or two to mircea_popescu	[00:49]
*	assbot removes voice from wbdynamics	[00:49]
v_diddy	they'll know latin, dance ballroom, play myriad instruments, perform ito.	[00:49]
v_diddy	he won't be able to resist!	[00:49]
v_diddy	failure of imagination.	[00:50]
*	trinque chuckles as the +ev scheme is laid bare!	[00:50]
phf	ito?	[00:50]
*	asciilifeform wishes v_diddy only the highest quality, not-at-all-regressed-to-mean offspring	[00:51]
phf	regressing to mean? that's a paddling	[00:51]
v_diddy	and how.	[00:51]
v_diddy	asciilifeform doubts my ability to milk humans of v!	[00:52]
v_diddy	the man would also rather chew tacks than talk to humans, so we are at an impasse.	[00:52]
*	asciilifeform is fortunately not needed for any of this.	[00:52]
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v_diddy	asciilifeform: perhaps remembers the lotto tickets at con3?	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	like a what!	[00:54]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: aha. mega-win.	[00:55]
v_diddy	so there	[00:56]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: i also remember the one other time i had a lotto ticket; when the lab where i worked in 2011 was defunded, the boss passed the hat and, as a last l0l, bought lotto tickets	[00:56]
v_diddy	classic!	[00:58]
asciilifeform	oughta have bought booze.	[00:58]
v_diddy	actual incentive program at a place where a rescued $wotschmuck once labored	[00:58]
v_diddy	lotto ticket has unknowable, but predictably bad odds.	[00:59]
asciilifeform	wai wat	[00:59]
asciilifeform	entirely knowable odds	[01:00]
v_diddy	really? scratch-offs are provably trustable now?	[01:00]
asciilifeform	ah in that sense, no.	[01:00]
v_diddy	mk then.	[01:00]
asciilifeform	but you can rely on the 0.	[01:00]
v_diddy	sure sure	[01:01]
v_diddy	and also reversion to the mean	[01:01]
trinque	v_diddy: wait this wasn't a place I worked with the lotto tickets was it?	[01:01]
trinque	I would die laughing if that became a practice after I left	[01:01]
v_diddy	and also that any given individual including v_diddy thinks they're not an entirely average schmuck	[01:02]
v_diddy	trinque: bonus pool type scam?	[01:02]
trinque	I'm just mocking the poverty of $oldboss	[01:03]
v_diddy	oh yeah	[01:03]
v_diddy	no this was something different	[01:03]
v_diddy	"5k bonus pool cash, divvied up amongst ye, or 5k of lotto tickets (purchased at my convenience store) divvied up amongst ye"	[01:03]
v_diddy	trinque: man can i get $legendaryshitshow1 and $...2 from that guy yet?	[01:04]
trinque	people still work for him?	[01:05]
v_diddy	anyways, at a high level, one aspect of the wager i'm making here is that if a moron like me can with dilligence and self-discipline figure out how to turn a dollar into a buck twenty, if i bring the discipline and insist on the dilligence, i oughta be able to crap out at least one kid that can support me through $enddayz when my meatwot is all dead and dried up	[01:06]
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v_diddy	mircea_popescu: i found your next joinpartspamtarget	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	for crying out loud.	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	in other news : eggplant salad in mayo goes well with the local malbec.	[01:09]
asciilifeform	http://dilbert.com/strip/1992-08-02 << on subject, via tlp	[01:09]
assbot	Dilbert Comic Strip on 1992-08-02 \| Dilbert by Scott Adams ... ( http://bit.ly/1l0Bvl0 )	[01:09]
v_diddy	https://www.change.org/p/tell-scott-adams-that-raping-a-woman-is-not-a-natural-instinct?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition << who sets the targets for these petitions?	[01:11]
assbot	Pétition · Tell Scott Adams that raping a woman is not a natural instinct. · Change.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1l0BDB9 )	[01:11]
v_diddy	the dumb thing would be for the petition initiator, right?	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	obama bin bimbo	[01:11]
v_diddy	and to set your own bar and then fail to jump it?	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	you don't understand how dumb women work.	[01:13]
trinque	so this petition gets "upboated" or w/e they called it here, and Obama is supposed to tell him "nuh uh"	[01:13]
v_diddy	oh this is an obab product	[01:14]
v_diddy	so where does the magic 5K number come from?	[01:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00054525 = 5.7906 BTC [+] {2}	[01:14]
trinque	originally, perhaps the "nuh uh" is collectivised now	[01:14]
mircea_popescu	in other news, wrestling has progressed much since the old days of andy kaufman. they now tagteam women : http://31.media.tumblr.com/60dc8df09d8a7bbec349bb5ce34776da/tumblr_mlmvv0x3j91qadwmuo2_400.gif	[01:15]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1M1ZIhA )	[01:15]
v_diddy	ah oh man	[01:15]
v_diddy	change dot org	[01:15]
v_diddy	too funny	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	si el presente es de lucha, el futuro es nuestro!	[01:15]
asciilifeform	lulz from tlp's commentz:	[01:16]
asciilifeform	'In a little less than four decades, college tuition has risen 1400%. Housing costs have gone up 3100%. Gasoline has increased 1800%. Wages, on the other hand, have gone up 322%. The average increase in the three areas I have mentioned comes to 20 times. If income had kept pace with expenses, and if I were earning an amount equivalent to what my father earned in the 1960s, I would be making over one million dollars a year.'	[01:16]
asciilifeform	hay mas futuro, indeed.	[01:16]
BingoBoingo	really? scratch-offs are provably trustable now? << Even more of a Gamble in Illinois. Prize over $600, get paid maybe nevar.	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	hay mas futuro, pero no para todos.	[01:16]
*	TheRealJohnGalt is now known as TheRealJohnGalt2	[01:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: pretty sure that was al schwart's usenet sig for a while	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the problem is this : out of a billion people, his father in 1960 was part of a group of a million, and the other 999 million were more than happy to be coolies. today, the author is part of the group of the useless.	[01:18]
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mircea_popescu	i would be very thankful he makes > 1k a year.	[01:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: a pauper's burial costs 5x this in usa.	[01:18]
asciilifeform	so it will have to be soap.	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	either that or flush them in one of those special hopsital toilets	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	made for real big people.	[01:18]
*	asciilifeform recalls the tale of dog-sized garbage disposals in a certain lab	[01:19]
v_diddy	mircea_popescu: re "powerful men behaving badly" is this symmetric with "powerful women behaving badly"?	[01:23]
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*	TheRealJohnGalt2 is now known as TheRealJohnGalt	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	can powerful women behave badly ?	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	take a moment and give me a scenario.	[01:24]
asciilifeform	what's this even mean	[01:24]
v_diddy	can you give me a scenario of a powerful man behaving badly?	[01:24]
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mircea_popescu	yes. the original one : you have to put a golden bubble around your kid's neck so powerful man behaving badly knows to rape some other kid in the gaggle of kids your kid's playing with.	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	what's she gonna do, suck them ALL off ?	[01:26]
asciilifeform	if it's golden, the fella will just steal it. gotta be trotyl bubble..	[01:26]
v_diddy	asciilifeform: motorbikenuke!	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	fun fact : my latest piece, 10101 words.	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform wasn't a problem at the time, somehow.	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	(the somehow is explained in the anonimity article)	[01:27]
*	v_diddy gives up now	[01:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: help me out, how do you say 'беспредел' in english ?	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	independence.	[01:28]
v_diddy	in other news, gcaptain is an awesome blog	[01:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: nope	[01:28]
asciilifeform	it is a specific term from su prison lexicon	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	hey, you asked how i say!	[01:29]
v_diddy	BingoBoingo: https://gcaptain.com/u-s-navy-sailor-wife-plead-guilty-to-dealing-heroin-on-warship/	[01:29]
assbot	U.S. Navy Sailor, Wife Plead Guilty to Dealing Heroin on Warship - gCaptain ... ( http://bit.ly/1M20Xxe )	[01:29]
asciilifeform	literally 'state of no bounds', in the least desirable possible sense	[01:29]
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mircea_popescu	lemme fish out that article.	[01:30]
v_diddy	trinque: https://gcaptain.com/a-glimpse-into-the-unmanned-future-of-container-shipping/	[01:30]
assbot	Ship Photo of the Day - A Glimpse Into the Unmanned Containership of the Future? - gCaptain ... ( http://bit.ly/1M211gD )	[01:30]
asciilifeform	what i originally wanted to note was the 'powerful' does not necessarily mean 'respects no bounds', could - if this is a stable convention for some reason - respect the gold bubbles	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/un-prophete/#selection-57.90-57.473	[01:30]
assbot	Un prophète on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M214ZE )	[01:30]
v_diddy	http://gcaptain.com/dispute-over-rigged-ship-engine-tests-adds-to-volkswagens-woes/	[01:30]
assbot	Dispute Over Rigged Ship Engine Tests Adds to Volkswagen's Woes - gCaptain ... ( http://bit.ly/1M213Fc )	[01:30]
trinque	v_diddy: neat, surely armed security though?	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the reason the bound is respected is http://trilema.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/#selection-135.131-139.54	[01:31]
assbot	Anonimity, or the urban versus rural dispute. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M217oo )	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	the bubble is a honest signal.	[01:31]
*	TheRealJohnGalt is now known as TheRealJohnGalt2	[01:31]
asciilifeform	how else could it possibly work	[01:31]
v_diddy	trinque: rly? nigerians commandeering a freshly-built winxp ship?	[01:32]
v_diddy	anyways. gcaptain.	[01:32]
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trinque	seems like it creates an immediate market for hack tools like what they use to take down drones	[01:33]
v_diddy	dude mircea_popescu would you handle agorecki and therealjohngalt while you're at it?	[01:33]
chanserv	OP #bitcoin-assets	[01:33]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu	[01:33]
asciilifeform	trinque: anyone who moves valuables on a gps-steered robot is asking for it	[01:33]
*	mircea_popescu sets ban on !agorecki@unaffiliated/agorecki	[01:33]
*	mircea_popescu sets ban on !@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wapfrbjdpngncbeq	[01:34]
*	mircea_popescu has kicked TheRealJohnGalt2 from #bitcoin-assets (TheRealJohnGalt2)	[01:34]
v_diddy	http://www.skysafe.io/	[01:34]
assbot	SkySafe.io ... ( http://bit.ly/1M21krE )	[01:34]
*	mircea_popescu removes channel operator status from mircea_popescu	[01:34]
v_diddy	asciilifeform: ah, but the tightly-coupled gps-imu	[01:34]
v_diddy	with its own sounding rockets that relay the real gps signal back to the launch platform!	[01:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24773 @ 0.00054536 = 13.5102 BTC [+] {2}	[01:35]
v_diddy	4 days, 36 hours y'all.	[01:35]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: for a boat, it is really not hard to set up mechanized stellar tracker	[01:37]
v_diddy	autoastrolabe!	[01:37]
v_diddy	yes, i was typing something along the lines of "anyways, using gps for mission critical anything is braindamaged. you're better off with dead reckoning and navigation by star."	[01:38]
v_diddy	anyways, the "drone" comms are /entirely/ unencrypted.	[01:39]
v_diddy	rc aircraft idem.	[01:39]
asciilifeform	toy store machine, toy store crypto	[01:39]
v_diddy	another killer application of gossipd.	[01:40]
*	v_diddy goes shuffling through drawers for the uav wargames notes	[01:41]
asciilifeform	how's gossipd relate ?	[01:41]
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v_diddy	swarm coordination	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	i don't get this : not like you can't put encryption on top of a clear channel	[01:43]
v_diddy	mircea_popescu: uav/rc suffers from the pile of chairs problem	[01:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: why would toy maker bother.	[01:44]
v_diddy	if you want the systems to behave sanely, you have to rewrite everything down to the wire protocols	[01:44]
*	v_diddy digs	[01:44]
mircea_popescu	well toy maker i dunno, but you can do it if you care.	[01:44]
asciilifeform	a matched set of rf boxes that 9600 bauds in either direction, and you can do what you like with the outs, is commercial sop and costs maybe ten bux.	[01:45]
v_diddy	ehehahueahuaehu this aughta set asciilifeform off	[01:45]
v_diddy	http://smaccmpilot.org/artifacts/Galois-commsec.pdf	[01:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1P2pKHn )	[01:45]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: famous crown corp.	[01:46]
v_diddy	i am intimately familiar!	[01:46]
asciilifeform	they sell 'verified' crypto to usg	[01:46]
v_diddy	have worked with them numerously!	[01:46]
asciilifeform	the document appears to describe standard gcm/aes. snore.	[01:46]
v_diddy	aha but haskell!11	[01:47]
v_diddy	"have haskell, will travel"	[01:47]
v_diddy	corp motto.	[01:47]
asciilifeform	i thought that was jane street co.	[01:47]
v_diddy	quants?	[01:47]
v_diddy	what traveling do quants do, they work for the bank.	[01:48]
*	asciilifeform does not know.	[01:48]
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v_diddy	anyways, first brush with "security industry"	[01:49]
v_diddy	impression i walked away with was that of nerd's protection racket	[01:50]
v_diddy	"oh your wordpress is very very insecure. it has shared php hosting. you need to spend $maxint to migrate to custom blablabla with frufrufru to protect your reputation and reduce the risk of br34ches!1"	[01:50]
asciilifeform	laundry.	[01:51]
v_diddy	laundry?	[01:51]
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asciilifeform	nobody gives a rat's arse what they purportedly make.	[01:51]
asciilifeform	favourite sons need warm nest.	[01:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19109 @ 0.00054547 = 10.4234 BTC [+]	[01:52]
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asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SeOrGni9s << i have no idea if you have the ru to appreciate this, but it is rather like a distilled version of 11 or so of your articles	[01:54]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:54]
v_diddy	there were more players.	[01:54]
assbot	Как правильно допрашивать перед расстрелом (Меняйлов) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1M22OCi )	[01:54]
mircea_popescu	doesn't wanna play for some reason.	[01:55]
asciilifeform	i might do a translation at some point, if mircea_popescu can find a box where it plays.	[01:56]
mircea_popescu	gee look at that, an hour's worth of video	[01:56]
mircea_popescu	not sure i wouldn't rather read the 11 articles	[01:57]
*	asciilifeform only saw 10 min	[01:57]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[02:00]
punkman	bon dia	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	"The media's preferred symbol for the disintegration of public order is looting, i.e the opposite of shopping."	[02:02]
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punkman	indeed. on a sidenote, all the recent instances of looting around here were mobs taking food from supermarkets, not widescreen TVs.	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	wait, greece is in looting mode ?	[02:06]
punkman	not really, it has happened a few time in past decade though	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	ah	[02:06]
punkman	usually same demographic as the kids throwing rocks and molotovs at cops, not actual hungry people	[02:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00054554 = 19.5849 BTC [+]	[02:07]
punkman	v_diddy: congrats, καλορίζικο και καλοτάξιδο	[02:08]
v_diddy	ty! and here's hoping.	[02:11]
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punkman	asciilifeform: a tenured prof is prolly the closest thing that presently exists in the western world to ~titled nobility~ << I don't buy it. Back when tenure was a thing, they wanted to keep professors around until parts started falling off. Now there's an endless stream of "professors", and gotta hire them so they can say "our PHDs get jobs"	[02:12]
asciilifeform	punkman: where i live, tenure is still a thing. in that the courts have held it to be a perverse kind of nontransferable property interest	[02:13]
asciilifeform	quite like nobility in the old days	[02:14]
v_diddy	tenured professors can kill with impunity?	[02:15]
asciilifeform	v_diddy: 'noble' meant very different things in different places.	[02:15]
punkman	(kill == bad grades)	[02:15]
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asciilifeform	e.g., poland, where a good 7-10% of the place were, nominally, 'szlachta'	[02:16]
asciilifeform	punkman: the folks who 'gotta hire endless stream' of are called 'instructors' here.	[02:17]
asciilifeform	they are lower than dirt on the org chart.	[02:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15009 @ 0.00054554 = 8.188 BTC [+]	[02:28]
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punkman	http://www.aaup.org/report/trigger-warnings	[02:34]
assbot	On Trigger Warnings \| AAUP ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb7EkS )	[02:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36211 @ 0.00054594 = 19.769 BTC [+] {2}	[02:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00054554 = 13.2021 BTC [-]	[02:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45589 @ 0.00054649 = 24.9139 BTC [+] {2}	[02:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25445 @ 0.00054554 = 13.8813 BTC [-]	[02:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00054554 = 5.4554 BTC [-]	[02:53]
BingoBoingo	!up Chameleous	[02:54]
*	assbot gives voice to Chameleous	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	" If you wanted to learn, you headed towards where the books were and the people who could read them and that meant the great universities like Paris and Oxford."	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	ha-ha.	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	it meant paris. what the fuck is this "oxford"	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	derpy brits keep trying to retcon their insignificant island into things.	[03:06]
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punkman	mircea_popescu: oxford was never great?	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	the thesis was whether oxford was there in the original wot. it was not.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	at the time the paris university was starting the entire university thing, the king of france wouldn't have traded a middling french province for all of england ; which also he didn't.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	at the time, the english were exactly like the 1600s scots (see their darien gap adventure). so they copied the bitcoin out of some idle kids and some peasants, which ended kloinking each other in the head.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	three centuries later the dutch conquered england, moved their fleet there and so yes oxford eventually flourished. but the claim that it was "there in the 13th century" is spurious.	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	as a ready shorthand, remember that in 1400 the entire material production of the entire archipelago was worth about the same as that of one neighbourhood in milan.	[03:35]
punkman	i see. pretty dense history lesson there	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	the whole fantasy is very cs-scientist level of naive. read villon's testament - it should make it very plain what the point of university life was cca 1500 : THAT YOU COULD WALK IT.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	everyone had one, and you could walk from basel to luxembourg.	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	this was immense - at the time a peasant who wanted to move, provided he somehow managed, had to fucking drag his entire possessions, on a rug. no wheels even, because too fucking techy for a peasant.	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	whereas the vagabond could carry all his possessions in his head!	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	THIS is why peasant chicks wistfully wisted for l'etudiant. because it is fucking fascinating, you are seriously telling me you can ~just go~ ?!?!?!	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	how do you do that from oxford, you swim the channel or something ?	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	england wasn't part of the party, not at that time.	[03:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24109 @ 0.00054554 = 13.1524 BTC [-]	[03:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00054874 = 24.9128 BTC [+] {3}	[04:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6211 @ 0.00054966 = 3.4139 BTC [+]	[04:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21617 @ 0.00054814 = 11.8491 BTC [-] {2}	[04:34]
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BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2015/10/billion-dollar-blimp-victim-of-police-shooting/#comment-72125	[04:58]
assbot	Billion Dollar Blimp Victim of Police Shooting \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1GDlBqE )	[04:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00055108 = 3.5269 BTC [+]	[05:46]
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punkman	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSjpr7sWcAA7f0j.png	[05:57]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MyHZUo )	[05:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00055058 = 15.6915 BTC [-]	[06:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23728 @ 0.00054556 = 12.945 BTC [-] {2}	[06:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00055101 = 17.5221 BTC [+] {3}	[07:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00055175 = 8.2211 BTC [+]	[07:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48084 @ 0.00055201 = 26.5428 BTC [+] {2}	[07:31]
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jurov	i feel very dense now...v_diddy is sean combs? and you all congrat him for what?	[08:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00055031 = 5.0629 BTC [-]	[08:08]
danielpbarron	it's ben_vulpes and it means he's a father	[08:09]
jurov	lol	[08:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36349 @ 0.00055204 = 20.0661 BTC [+]	[08:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2148 @ 0.00055019 = 1.1818 BTC [-] {2}	[08:17]
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jurov	mircea_popescu: in your quest for other non-derpy irc chans, have you tried #lisp?	[08:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21650 @ 0.00054976 = 11.9023 BTC [-]	[08:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00054976 = 12.562 BTC [-]	[09:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00054617 = 20.3721 BTC [-] {2}	[09:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00054582 = 2.5654 BTC [-]	[09:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74000 @ 0.0005455 = 40.367 BTC [-] {3}	[09:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36750 @ 0.00055203 = 20.2871 BTC [+] {2}	[09:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39026 @ 0.00055269 = 21.5693 BTC [+] {2}	[09:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44091 @ 0.00055517 = 24.478 BTC [+] {3}	[09:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80875 @ 0.00055762 = 45.0975 BTC [+] {2}	[09:59]
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shinohai	Felicidades v_diddy btw, had my head in the clouds the past few hours.	[10:19]
shinohai	!up coinaday	[10:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55122 @ 0.00055784 = 30.7493 BTC [+] {2}	[10:28]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[10:38]
punkman	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/feds-apple-must-still-unlock-iphone-5s-even-after-defendant-pled-guilty/ n/t	[10:38]
assbot	After guilty plea, judge confused as to why prosecutors still want iPhone unlocked \| Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1RF2eO5 )	[10:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00055799 = 20.7014 BTC [+]	[10:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148750 @ 0.00055832 = 83.0501 BTC [+] {3}	[10:44]
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asciilifeform	https://cryptome.org/2015/10/wikileaks-honeypot-update.htm	[11:23]
assbot	Wikileaks honeypot/SAIC whistlebreaker update ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mz33KH )	[11:23]
asciilifeform	'Wikileaks is not offering a search of Cryptome - the files are hosted on their server as a honeypot for snatching user data for who knows what. There are subtle sneaky differences that give it away...'	[11:24]
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asciilifeform	http://www.pcworld.com/article/2999146/encryption/google-threatens-action-against-symantec-issued-certificates-following-botched-investigation.html << via same	[11:25]
assbot	Google threatens action against Symantec-issued SSL certificates following botched investigation \| PCWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mz394P )	[11:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10205 @ 0.00055473 = 5.661 BTC [-]	[11:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44970 @ 0.00054479 = 24.4992 BTC [-] {4}	[11:39]
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asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu didja know that it is impossible to produce a v-genesis for gnupg-1.4.10 ? it contains unprintable turds, yes ! e.g., the idiot 'localizators', po/*.gmo	[12:10]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[12:10]
asciilifeform	and holy fuck, enough utf8 hieroglyphisms to kill five elephants	[12:11]
asciilifeform	(all over the place)	[12:11]
asciilifeform	where do i meet all of these mythical people who own a computer, use gpg, but do not know enough english to operate it without this garbage ?	[12:12]
asciilifeform	!up punkman	[12:25]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[12:25]
punkman	asciilifeform: is that because of the LC_ALL=C in vdiff?	[12:25]
asciilifeform	no such thing in there	[12:27]
asciilifeform	but more generally, unix diff is NOT FOR BINARIES	[12:27]
asciilifeform	('binary' for n00bz is a file containing so much as one octet with its eighth bit set)	[12:28]
asciilifeform	funny how we keep having this thread.	[12:29]
punkman	dunno, I have a lot of code with unicode strings/comments	[12:33]
asciilifeform	that you wrote ?	[12:33]
punkman	sure	[12:33]
jurov	why shouldn't i be able to diff files with extended characters?	[12:33]
asciilifeform	jurov: there are specially-made tools for this (see the screenshots on mircea_popescu's www in the phuctor 3-parter article re: what i used)	[12:34]
phf	plan9's diff handles utf-8, the implicit decision here is that we're sticking to us-ascii	[12:34]
asciilifeform	it is what civilized people use when they program a computer.	[12:34]
punkman	also, wasn't LC_ALL=C needed for consistent ordering in diffs? I have it in mine	[12:34]
asciilifeform	punkman: i specifically did not include it in my signed copy of 'vdiff' because it is a workaround for people with broken boxes.	[12:35]
jurov	i want diff to be usable for any text files, not just code	[12:35]
asciilifeform	layering workarounds into the canon is precisely how we ended up with ball of shit.	[12:35]
jurov	and my code inevitably contains some localized strings	[12:36]
jurov	what workarounds?	[12:36]
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asciilifeform	see, if symbolics corp. had won the war and the notion of 'character' was not braindamagedly bound to 'octet' - we would not be having this conversation.	[12:36]
asciilifeform	but it appears that all of the magic in the world did not suffice to retrofit a non-retarded notion of text onto unix	[12:37]
jurov	so? it is now bound to longint with special encoding	[12:37]
jurov	you know text was retarded from the very beginning	[12:37]
asciilifeform	jurov: witness what unix proggies that try to be 'special encoding'-aware look like.	[12:38]
asciilifeform	they look like garbage.	[12:38]
jurov	it was defined as "what fits into gets buffer	[12:38]
jurov	"	[12:38]
asciilifeform	trailing multimegabyte mystery libs	[12:38]
jurov	i understand but it does not mean it must be done that way	[12:39]
asciilifeform	it goes to the heart of how unix works	[12:39]
asciilifeform	streams operate bytewise	[12:39]
asciilifeform	with no notion of structure.	[12:40]
phf	jurov: problem is that there's no such thing as "any text file". a text file necessarily has an encoding, and your options are either standardize on an encoding (the way plan9 did it, with going all utf-8) or else carry massive machinery for supporting a range of encodings from utf-8 to shiftjis	[12:40]
asciilifeform	it is quite basic to the concept, to the extent there ever was a concept behind it.	[12:40]
asciilifeform	phf: even utf8 is a non-solution because there remain multiple glyph mappings	[12:41]
asciilifeform	and the variadic encoding is intrinsically gnarly	[12:41]
asciilifeform	now, a system with built-in notion of bignums (variable-length integers), e.g., lispm, does not suffer from any of this gnarl.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	but we haven't such a thing.	[12:42]
phf	utf-8 is a solution if you're ok iwth variadic encoding (though i've read many convincing arguments that utf-8 is new jersey brain dead), but the main issue is that full support of unicode is impossible withtout massive amounts of machinery. and you're going to butt head against the internal storage format and all the varieities of ucs-*, and ~then~ you're going to run into issues of normalization and multiple mappings and such	[12:43]
jurov	sigh. code to convert utf8 stream to wide char and back is 50 lines. with diff, one can safely ignore everything else, other encoding, nat'l sorting, normalized/unnormalized chars, etc.	[12:43]
jurov	no need to pull huge libs	[12:44]
asciilifeform	wide chars break unix.	[12:44]
asciilifeform	sorry. i did not invent unix	[12:44]
jurov	unix is broken by design	[12:44]
asciilifeform	no shit.	[12:44]
asciilifeform	as a native of what latinate folks regard as likewise a 'hieroglyphs' language, i STILL favour the abolition of 'hieroglyphs display on EVERY box'	[12:46]
asciilifeform	because it is inevitably a clusterfuck of complexity	[12:46]
asciilifeform	i favour the old msdos solution instead	[12:46]
jurov	well, you're bound to see your software broken by people who don't agree with you then	[12:46]
phf	jurov: i'm actually just trying to bridge your position and ascii's since i'm pretty indifferent personally to outcome of the decision. i used to latex by typing funny us-ascii combinations to produce cyrillic metafont renderings, and i also am intimately familiar with what's involved in support "other encoding, nat'l sorting, normalized/unnormalized chars", and it's a pita.	[12:46]
jurov	msdos code pages? srs?	[12:46]
asciilifeform	say jurov gotta see Žižek printed correctly	[12:46]
jurov	not just printed. i want to see diff working over it	[12:47]
jurov	and it is not so complicated as you paint it	[12:47]
asciilifeform	so he has a different set of glyphs above 0x80	[12:47]
asciilifeform	and i have another.	[12:47]
asciilifeform	jurov: the hard part is not diffing (diff readily diffs binaries)	[12:48]
asciilifeform	the hard part is printing.	[12:48]
asciilifeform	and parsing.	[12:48]
jurov	why?	[12:49]
jurov	printing is not your problem	[12:49]
jurov	and in any other cases where you don't have to choose exact glyph printed, you can ignore 99% of unicode spec	[12:50]
asciilifeform	jurov: go and find the src for gnu diff (it is in the logs) and see how much of the bulk and library load garbage is on account of non-latin.	[12:50]
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jurov	because they opted to do other encodings, nat'l sorting, normalized/unnormalized chars, etc.	[12:50]
asciilifeform	jurov: so whatchawaiting for, write us a sane diff that behaves sanely on a typical unix box ?	[12:51]
jurov	they can be ignored.. and you supposedly ignore this argument :(	[12:51]
jurov	oh it won't behave sanely to your standars, anyway	[12:51]
asciilifeform	why not ?	[12:51]
jurov	"the variadic encoding is intrinsically gnarly" etc.	[12:54]
asciilifeform	it is a severe impedance mismatch with the unix philosophy.	[12:55]
*	assbot removes voice from punkman	[12:55]
asciilifeform	the merits of which are debatable, but a pure unix is a legitimate animal	[12:55]
asciilifeform	while a unix with weird shit hanging off the side is not a woman, but a bloke with cock lopped off	[12:55]
asciilifeform	jurov: do you own a copy of the lions book ?	[12:56]
kakobrekla	more like a woman with strap on	[12:56]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-10-2014#887121	[12:56]
assbot	Logged on 22-10-2014 02:38:31; asciilifeform: othernubs`: see ubiquitous 'lions book' that we're imitating: http://v6.cuzuco.com/v6.pdf	[12:56]
asciilifeform	ever wonder what is all of this RUBBISH that is in a typical unix that ISN'T found in the lions book ?	[12:57]
jurov	you'er basically insisting that anyone who wants to do 8bit stuff in unix should sit themselves on a stake instead, or resort to ms-dos style wankery	[12:59]
asciilifeform	not 8-bit stuff, jurov. varidic int stuff.	[12:59]
asciilifeform	*variadic	[12:59]
asciilifeform	they break streams! srsly	[13:00]
asciilifeform	even something like character count is now O(N) !	[13:00]
asciilifeform	but aside from this, it makes for 10-20x the lines of code for me to read.	[13:01]
asciilifeform	and 10-20x as many gnarly crevices in which to hide off-by-ones, etc	[13:01]
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jurov	that shitgnomes use variadic encoding as a means to append bloat is not failure of said encoding. they'd find another outlet easily	[13:03]
jurov	like the msdos cases, 8bit streams were preserver, but the rest was utter mess	[13:04]
phf	jurov: variadic anywhere in your string handling machinery means that you no longer have a meaningful concept of string, i.e. nth printable character is an nth object in array, instead everything that you manipulate is a stream with a state machine attached. be that utf-8 at the encoding level, or ucs-4 at the storage level which brings in surrogates and supplementary characters	[13:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00054807 = 12.2768 BTC [+]	[13:08]
jurov	phf i proposed just ignore them	[13:10]
phf	a typical solution is then, like you said, ignore 90% of unicode standard, which means that, instead of having a clean model to work with, you have a c++ solution of "we support this particular subset of c++, because the other parts we think are braindead"	[13:10]
jurov	nope	[13:11]
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jurov	diff would compare just the entities and would expect normalized both inputs the same way	[13:11]
jurov	the normalization, sorting, etc. would be done by other tool	[13:11]
phf	oh, see..	[13:12]
jurov	so diff would stay simple	[13:12]
phf	i think the argument against that is that ascii is trying to build a b-a system starting with small tools out. if you're claiming to support unicode in your diff, that necessarily means that "done by other tool" is automatically included in the scope of future b-a work	[13:13]
jurov	and "concept of string".. something has to give, in this case "string"===="byte array"	[13:13]
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punkman	diff works fine with utf-8 documents, doesn't it?	[13:16]
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jurov	punkman: yes because there's whole unicode machinery implemented which ppl rightfully abhor	[13:18]
jurov	btw, that "string" = "byte array" thing, specifically people who like to do pointer arithmetic around it caused enough grief i won't miss it at all	[13:19]
jurov	every time i did anything nontrivial with #include it ended up by drawing stuff on paper	[13:20]
phf	jurov: my personal concern is not "byte array" equivalency, but "object in array"	[13:21]
phf	a=['e', '´'] vs b=['é']. a[0] != b[0]	[13:22]
jurov	that's the braindamaged part, which should be dealt separately	[13:23]
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jurov	and such tgins existed before, consider a=" " vs b=" "	[13:24]
jurov	*things	[13:24]
phf	wut	[13:24]
jurov	you're expected to make it consistent before passing in to diff	[13:24]
jurov	or use "ignore whitespaces" kludge	[13:25]
jurov	same with normalization	[13:25]
jurov	instead of adding kludge to diff, be it extra step	[13:25]
phf	but i'm not talking about diff specifically, i'm saying that whatever decissions are being made about diff now are going to influence the kind of work we'll have to do in the future	[13:25]
phf	some hypothetical b-a os and internal consistency of the whole model. if you say "we support utf-8" here, you're also saying "we support unicode x.y" everywhere	[13:27]
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jurov	otherwise you have to keep stuff 8-bit clean throughout, is that better?	[13:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00054901 = 11.7488 BTC [+] {2}	[13:30]
jurov	i mean, remove extended chars from everythign that goes in	[13:30]
phf	jurov: that's a question to ascii, as far as "better". my point is that "us-ascii" vs "utf-8" in v/vdiff has greater implications	[13:30]
jurov	ofc it has	[13:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112150 @ 0.00054686 = 61.3303 BTC [-] {4}	[13:31]
phf	i personally prefer the lc_ctype=koi8-r solution, but that's because i'm a retrograde :p	[13:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00054932 = 9.6131 BTC [+] {3}	[13:34]
jurov	around 2000 i had on my system files and filenames in cp852, koi8, iso8859-2 and cp1250 encodings... no thanks	[13:34]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[13:35]
jurov	also as sysadmin had to configure samba to deal with them..nopenopenope. utf8 was definite improvement.	[13:36]
punkman	there is no unicode machinery in diff	[13:36]
phf	jurov: so did i, and i appreciate utf-8 in my music selection or random durp i download from the internet. i wouldn't care if there's some frequent surrogate issue with track file names, but i do care that i can't have a professional tool where that sort of questions have predictable, if not necessarily easy and fun answers	[13:37]
asciilifeform	punkman: this is disingenously true	[13:38]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-08-2015#1245519 there is i18n which behaves as described here	[13:38]
assbot	Logged on 20-08-2015 16:57:03; ascii_field: srsly, different sort order on different versions of 'diff' ?	[13:38]
asciilifeform	http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/diffutils.git/tree/src/util.c << a good chunk of the complexity IS THERE BECAUSE characters are EVER variadic	[13:38]
assbot	diffutils.git - GNU diff and patch utilities ... ( http://bit.ly/1P36dGM )	[13:38]
asciilifeform	and yes, jurov found the diff thread	[13:38]
asciilifeform	where we learned that yes, it is retarded in 1,001 ways	[13:39]
asciilifeform	all of them traceable to variadic chars	[13:39]
punkman	does it work with utf-16?	[13:40]
*	asciilifeform is l0lzing over how we are replacing the asciilifeform vs mircea_popescu debate on udp, with jurov playing the part of asciilifeform and asciilifeform playing the part of mircea_popescu	[13:40]
jurov	asciilifeform: i see thirs of the code dealing with various "ignore whitespace" kludges	[13:41]
jurov	*third	[13:41]
asciilifeform	punkman: it could work if no one were to ever use anything else. but the distinction between 'this is a binary blob and is to be cut into octets' vs 'this is a text blob and is to be cut into words' would remain	[13:41]
punkman	why does diff need to know about words?	[13:41]
asciilifeform	by 'words' i meant uint16_t's	[13:42]
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punkman	my guess is it doesn't work with utf16 because it can't find linebreaks	[13:42]
asciilifeform	jurov: a good chunk of that complexity is on account of O(N) operations on strings made necessary by variads	[13:42]
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asciilifeform	i suppose this is not a bad time for one of my usual batshit monologues:	[13:43]
jurov	can you point me to a line number? i fail to see it there	[13:43]
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asciilifeform	why do you think no one has to date succeeded in 'bonfire of the unix' ?	[13:43]
asciilifeform	as in, cutting all the shitgnomatic crud until we have something like the lions book again ?	[13:43]
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asciilifeform	the reason is that every time the surgeon begins to cut, he sees 'inoperable tumour'	[13:43]
asciilifeform	every time you stick in the knife, somebody says 'NOOOOOO! this is NECESSARY complexity...!'	[13:44]
asciilifeform	'I'M JWZ AND I JUST WANT SHIT TO WURK!'	[13:44]
jurov	would bitcoin run on the lions book system?	[13:45]
asciilifeform	depends.	[13:45]
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asciilifeform	therealbitcoin, as we have it, makes minimal use of gnarly unixisms. but its dependencies (incl. gcc and the toolchain) are another matter.	[13:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00054867 = 5.0478 BTC [-]	[13:46]
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phf	could crosscompile the core, but openssl/boost, i don't even imagine the scope of that one	[13:47]
phf	actually i don't think v6 has threads	[13:48]
asciilifeform	phf: in case this wasn't obvious, i was not speaking of a ~literal~ return to v6	[13:49]
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*	phf puts back his lion's copy	[13:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8299 @ 0.0005494 = 4.5595 BTC [+]	[13:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14493 @ 0.0005494 = 7.9625 BTC [+]	[14:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38577 @ 0.00054805 = 21.1421 BTC [-] {5}	[14:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8598 @ 0.00054813 = 4.7128 BTC [+]	[14:20]
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asciilifeform	jurov awake ?	[14:59]
jurov	yes?	[14:59]
asciilifeform	could you plz check turdatron ?	[14:59]
asciilifeform	it ate my shit, for the 1,001th time.	[15:00]
asciilifeform	this is REALLY getting old.	[15:03]
jurov	yes, i'm doing it on purpose	[15:03]
*	asciilifeform not blaming jurov	[15:03]
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mircea_popescu	actually as frustrating as it is, iirc there was always a good reason	[15:13]
*	asciilifeform got tired, and,	[15:15]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533	[15:15]
assbot	Loper OS » MPI sans the mud. ... ( http://bit.ly/1l0WdBf )	[15:15]
asciilifeform	^^^ mircea_popescu et al ^^^	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform myeah.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	ie, yes, i knew.	[15:16]
asciilifeform	kudos to mircea_popescu for supplying a blessed version of the package.	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	what is this, capitalist merit ?	[15:16]
asciilifeform	and many anti-kudos to the authors of the package for making me do what i had to do.	[15:16]
asciilifeform	errata. item 4 should say '(1), (2), and (3)' instead of '(1) and (2)'.	[15:19]
mircea_popescu	lol funny how this happens.	[15:19]
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mircea_popescu	jurov haven't, no.	[15:20]
jurov	asciilifeform ok, nm, on it	[15:21]
asciilifeform	jurov: no worries, already posted.	[15:22]
asciilifeform	to my www.	[15:22]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533 << reload page for errata section.	[15:23]
assbot	Loper OS » MPI sans the mud. ... ( http://bit.ly/1l0WdBf )	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312574 << if the "there are subtle" were actually a specific list, i would be much more convinced.	[15:23]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 14:21:34; asciilifeform: 'Wikileaks is not offering a search of Cryptome - the files are hosted on their server as a honeypot for snatching user data for who knows what. There are subtle sneaky differences that give it away...'	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	as it is - cryptome is the whistlebreaking device.	[15:23]
asciilifeform	could easily both serve hitler.	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	and that what they attempt to do with the recently stolen item is to try and muddy up wikileaks is, at least to my eyes informative.	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	a) they know the secret is out, so this candle is burning - gotta use it NOW for maximum impact	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	b) they still hate assange.	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there is a huge wall of fire between easily and probably.	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	an ufo chock full of partying alien sluts on alien spring break could ~easily~ land in brooklyn too	[15:25]
*	asciilifeform expected mircea_popescu to make this observation.	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	good for you, shows your ties to sanity are strong :D	[15:25]
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asciilifeform	except that i'm not convinced that cryptome was ever a human thing	[15:26]
asciilifeform	and didn't always serve hitler.	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	i never really followed it.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	i suppose the people who inform me also didn't think much of it.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312583 << the point is not that they exist. the point is that nsa decided cca 1990 that IN THE FUTURE tm/r it WANTS them to exist.	[15:28]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 15:09:58; asciilifeform: where do i meet all of these mythical people who own a computer, use gpg, but do not know enough english to operate it without this garbage ?	[15:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40250 @ 0.00055338 = 22.2735 BTC [+] {5}	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	wouldn't it be great if you couldn't read azn code because "if" was written in coolie ?	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	back then they still hoped china might be just a sort of magical closet.	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	and it was important to separate the cowstumers from the coolies.	[15:28]
asciilifeform	actually it mostly ~is~ a closet. 99.999% of the cn code publicly known on the net (in any attributable way) is wincrud.	[15:29]
asciilifeform	the kind entirely unusable anywhere sane at all.	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312599 << unicode is not text.	[15:30]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 15:32:52; jurov: i want diff to be usable for any text files, not just code	[15:30]
mod6	asciilifeform thx for posting the MPI stuff.	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	text means a very specific thing. latin alphabet. nothing else. if you'd rather work with 文本, work with 文本.	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform myeah.	[15:31]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312718 << replaying.	[15:34]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 16:37:36; *: asciilifeform is l0lzing over how we are replacing the asciilifeform vs mircea_popescu debate on udp, with jurov playing the part of asciilifeform and asciilifeform playing the part of mircea_popescu	[15:34]
asciilifeform	argh.	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	lol	[15:35]
*	asciilifeform is a 2-pass compiler apparently	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	explain this to me. what the fuck is a "sane notion of text" ?	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	just because you can elegantly package idiocy in sexpr does not alter what text is	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	and just because you can't see where this problem breaks shit down from where you sit doesn't mean it's not gonna. it will.	[15:36]
asciilifeform	one that fits will into the architecture of the machine.	[15:36]
jurov	meh. i'll believe you both when you in the names of simplicity, shot "ignore whitespaces" too.	[15:36]
asciilifeform	and yes, this is bidirectional.	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	this is entirely beyond the fucking point.	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	a badly defined notion CAN NEVER fit well into a machine	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	no matter how elegant the pretense can be made to appear.	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	jurov da fuck is "ignore whitespaces" ?	[15:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'text' is merely a subprogram for a program that displays glyphs. any other definition is braindamaged and will have to be paid for, again and again, until replaced with a sane one.	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	no.	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	and i will ritously say this is americanism at its finest. "oh, i like this girl, what need of her fambly ? we'll just live together under a blanked of sky, alone, like those two kids in the chinese myth!".	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	"oh, hurr, i kinda like the bible and my name is john smith".	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	this is not how things fgucking work. text means latin.	[15:39]
asciilifeform	should we also abolish case?	[15:39]
asciilifeform	punctuation ?	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	no, you shgouldn't have abolished case.	[15:39]
asciilifeform	(rome lacked either)	[15:39]
jurov	mircea_popescu: "ignore whitespaces" is half of the source alf posted me as example	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	just because bunches of barbarians "do without" the ablative doesn't mean they can fucking think in their pigdin	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i beg your pardon ?!	[15:40]
asciilifeform	nono, upper/lower case	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	you mean in iconography ?	[15:40]
asciilifeform	aha	[15:40]
asciilifeform	glyphs	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	i count myself fortunate you don't know about j/g	[15:41]
*	asciilifeform knows about j and v/u	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	what shall we do ;/	[15:41]
asciilifeform	l0l	[15:41]
asciilifeform	anyway the reason to have a sane notion of text and glyphs is not so that coolies can write hieroglyphs but so that one can speak of mathematics.	[15:42]
asciilifeform	(if no other reason is needed.)	[15:42]
*	mircea_popescu fumes	[15:42]
asciilifeform	but on unix we can't really have this conversation at all.	[15:42]
asciilifeform	we are in afghan, making kalash from umbrella.	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	you god damned mathematician folk and your insane demands of language.	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	damn you all to hell and eternal torment!	[15:43]
*	asciilifeform already there	[15:43]
*	asciilifeform spins on stake	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	should have taken a god fearting major like the letters.	[15:43]
asciilifeform	eh i'd be spewing greek then	[15:44]
asciilifeform	same problem.	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	im going to have breakfast before i pop a vein	[15:44]
*	asciilifeform wanders off in the direction of pet	[15:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00055465 = 16.584 BTC [+]	[15:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87250 @ 0.00055563 = 48.4787 BTC [+] {3}	[15:52]
v_diddy	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312555 << very educational to watch drmeister and co hammer on clasp	[15:54]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 11:45:24; jurov: mircea_popescu: in your quest for other non-derpy irc chans, have you tried #lisp?	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	maybe when i retire i'll learn to lisp.	[16:03]
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jurov	v_diddy: my late congrats!	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	he said late ha ha snort	[16:05]
v_diddy	aahuehuaehuaehuahahaehua	[16:16]
v_diddy	thanks jurov	[16:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20450 @ 0.0005486 = 11.2189 BTC [-] {3}	[16:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55550 @ 0.00055573 = 30.8708 BTC [+]	[16:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00055572 = 5.5294 BTC [-] {2}	[16:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13576 @ 0.00055606 = 7.5491 BTC [+] {2}	[16:41]
deedbot-	[Trilema] The quest ; and its resolution - http://trilema.com/2015/the-quest-and-its-resolution/	[16:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.00055642 = 8.0403 BTC [+]	[17:02]
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mircea_popescu	(though i've read many convincing arguments that utf-8 is new jersey brain dead) << al lyou need to know is that it's what seems to have been left standing once the pain of "gotta support bullshit" washed off.	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312629 << hey, i nullrouted orc glyphs in romanian text! not even computing, literature.	[17:24]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 15:43:21; asciilifeform: as a native of what latinate folks regard as likewise a 'hieroglyphs' language, i STILL favour the abolition of 'hieroglyphs display on EVERY box'	[17:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312632 << once they broke it it's no longer mine, it's theirs.	[17:24]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 15:43:52; jurov: well, you're bound to see your software broken by people who don't agree with you then	[17:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63350 @ 0.00055684 = 35.2758 BTC [+] {4}	[17:27]
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mircea_popescu	but in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/a5afc14bea4f9e01092fe5b598c8d5d1/tumblr_n9mvwceO5b1s4dm6ao1_500.gif	[18:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MzAih1 )	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312684 << you are not the only one.	[18:33]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 16:17:23; jurov: every time i did anything nontrivial with #include it ended up by drawing stuff on paper	[18:33]
*	mircea_popescu has said "AT THE VERY FUCKING LEAST!!!1 separate this mess into string.h and non-string.h god damned it!!1"	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	"localization" makes even office fucking management a nightmare.	[18:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00055117 = 15.4603 BTC [-]	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312712 << the more i think abvout it the more i understand the "display has its own computer" cut of this gordian knot.	[18:37]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 16:35:52; asciilifeform: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/diffutils.git/tree/src/util.c << a good chunk of the complexity IS THERE BECAUSE characters are EVER variadic	[18:37]
shinohai	;;later tell mod6 Success I guess? http://dpaste.com/3WH9Q58	[18:45]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[18:45]
assbot	dpaste: 3WH9Q58 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RkqO73 )	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312739 <<->> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312731	[18:46]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 16:46:49; asciilifeform: phf: in case this wasn't obvious, i was not speaking of a ~literal~ return to v6	[18:46]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 16:41:36; asciilifeform: every time you stick in the knife, somebody says 'NOOOOOO! this is NECESSARY complexity...!'	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	i has lulzed enough to last me the month.	[18:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38957 @ 0.00055172 = 21.4934 BTC [+] {2}	[18:46]
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mircea_popescu	re asciilifeform mpi : the actual extraction, and especially auditing of the rng is a very worthy project.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	it mighgt even tie in with the phuctor.	[18:48]
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mod6	shinohai: yeah, looks like it worked. thanks!	[18:51]
shinohai	next stop Ubuntu	[18:57]
mod6	thx1	[19:00]
shinohai	np, glad to be back on track	[19:01]
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jurov	asciilifeform: sadly i don't have your message because it started eating the bounces for yet unknown reason	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	you clearly don't feed that thing enough.	[19:14]
jurov	spam isn't as nutritional as i thought, seems	[19:15]
jurov	you're welcome to resend it to juraj@coinbr.com or otherwise publish	[19:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55050 @ 0.00055228 = 30.403 BTC [+] {3}	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	"Whenever I see a reference to a statement that seems insane to me, two things will be true: 1. It will take me as long to get the study as it did to conduct the study, i.e. 45 minutes. No hyperlink. No free access. Then I have to go into the university's PubMed, which takes me through three windows to Science Direct or some other outlet. Why, oh why, can't I just click "(15)" in the original paper and immediately	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	see it? Because: 2. It will turn out to be actually insane, and the only part of the reference that will support the statement will be the title."	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	hence http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/	[19:32]
assbot	How to deal with pseudoscience ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRVDzE )	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	aka "any claim as to science or studies done made in english, or by a libtard, or in support of notions not found in the literature of 1800 is to be dismissed out of hand."	[19:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7939 @ 0.00055417 = 4.3996 BTC [+]	[19:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24795 @ 0.00055843 = 13.8463 BTC [+]	[20:07]
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BingoBoingo	!up ascii_field	[20:13]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[20:13]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312876 << as symbolics lispm console was !!	[20:14]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 21:34:31; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312712 << the more i think abvout it the more i understand the "display has its own computer" cut of this gordian knot.	[20:14]
deedbot-	[Qntra] US DoD Extracts Guilty Pleas From Mom and Pop Competitors - http://qntra.net/2015/10/us-dod-extracts-guilty-pleas-from-mom-and-pop-competitors/	[20:14]
ascii_field	it by itself was a pretty fast 16bit comp with multiple cpu !	[20:14]
ascii_field	see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-10-2015#1304222	[20:15]
assbot	Logged on 21-10-2015 00:56:46; asciilifeform: connects to the box itself with a thick triax cable	[20:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00055746 = 19.7898 BTC [-] {3}	[20:15]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312886 << what if i admitted to having extracted it...	[20:17]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 21:45:55; mircea_popescu: re asciilifeform mpi : the actual extraction, and especially auditing of the rng is a very worthy project.	[20:17]
ascii_field	(deliberately not released with the mpi, because imho they are separate concerns)	[20:18]
ascii_field	there are 3 separate rng subsystems in gpg 1.4 - but more on this later)	[20:20]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312884 << yknow, if you want at&t sysv for pc, you can have! some nut ported...	[20:21]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 21:43:27; mircea_popescu: i has lulzed enough to last me the month.	[20:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18485 @ 0.0005587 = 10.3276 BTC [+] {2}	[20:21]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-10-2015#1312897 << death to copyrasty	[20:25]
assbot	Logged on 31-10-2015 22:29:23; mircea_popescu: "Whenever I see a reference to a statement that seems insane to me, two things will be true: 1. It will take me as long to get the study as it did to conduct the study, i.e. 45 minutes. No hyperlink. No free access. Then I have to go into the university's PubMed, which takes me through three windows to Science Direct or some other outlet. Why, oh why, can't I just click "(15)" in	[20:25]
ascii_field	but i thought mircea_popescu ~liked~ paywalls...?	[20:26]
ascii_field	or only likes his?	[20:26]
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BingoBoingo	!v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.peterl.1:0a8a8858ddc91f3e623eaa68eb5a4aa37e77c9a8840c191ff70fb388b75c88e1	[20:32]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for peterl with note: writes stuff on occasion.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform they are separate concerns.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	also one of those things hwere more work (esp by students) is never wasted	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	such as computing pi or measuring h	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i also like cocks (mine) and women (my own) and so on.	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo "granted immunity to former detective Austin, Texas police detective Charles Kleinert "	[20:52]
BingoBoingo	fck, fxd	[20:53]
BingoBoingo	Dependopotami are real	[20:54]
BingoBoingo	https://archive.is/QJlVT	[20:54]
assbot	MFW my husband asks me if I'll work out while he's deployed. : TrollXChromosomes ... ( http://bit.ly/1WnLG46 )	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	multicultural studies : poppedia.es : "Naomi Klein (nacida en Montreal, Canadá, el 8 de mayo de 1970) es una periodista e investigadora canadiense de gran influencia en el movimiento antiglobalización y el socialismo democrático" ; poppedia.en : "Naomi Klein (born May 8, 1970) is a Canadian author, social activist, and filmmaker known for her political analyses and criticism of corporate globalization and of corpora	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	te capitalism."	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	why are the spanishtards so unsophisticated ?	[21:00]
*	ascii_field (~asciilife@pool-108-31-64-194.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	and it goes into weird from there, "tercera via" is a thing for the spanishtards	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	(amusingly, they omit versioning for good reason. ceausescu's aparatchicks also had a "third way", like did the russians, like the peronisto-kirscherists, cuba is in its very own tercera via like is korea like is venezuela like that native midget what's his name sinking peru etc.	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	i guess easier to count all insanity as third rather than actually increment the accumulator and handle overflows.	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/10/you_are_the_98.html <<< best ever analysis of "ows" derpage. so good i don't even want to write one myself.	[21:06]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: You Are The 98% ... ( http://bit.ly/1WnMJ3X )	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	""Marching gets our message out." No it doesn't, it gets CNN's message out. "We don't watch CNN, we use the internet." Yet given the infinity of the internet you still surf the same 5 websites, looking for and finding exactly what you want, like a baby playing peekaboo in a mirror over and over and over and over and over and over and..."	[21:07]
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hanbot	https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2015/10/29/the-driest-place-on-earth-is-covered-in-pink-flowers-after-a-crazy-year-of-rain/	[21:16]
assbot	The ‘driest place on Earth’ is covered in pink flowers after a crazy year of rain - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1WnNJVG )	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	that's pretty cool	[21:17]
hanbot	lotus harlots, perhaps	[21:18]
jurov	asciilifeform: found your email after all. http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-October/000175.html	[21:18]
assbot	[BTC-dev] MPI Genesis. (Possibly Off-Topic!) ... ( http://bit.ly/1WnNZnL )	[21:18]
jurov	gmail in its infinite wisdom decided to label README as application/octet-stream	[21:19]
jurov	and thus mailman did not look for signatures there	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	kludge upon kludge	[21:22]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) October 2015 Report - http://qntra.net/2015/11/qntra-s-qntr-october-2015-report/	[21:26]
BingoBoingo	^	[21:27]
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BingoBoingo	!up coinaday	[21:28]
*	assbot gives voice to coinaday	[21:28]
shinohai	mod6: V isn't finding my .wot directory in arm :/	[21:31]
shinohai	nm found where it barfed.	[21:33]
mod6	it's all good now?	[21:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5284 @ 0.00055459 = 2.9305 BTC [-]	[21:38]
shinohai	yeah building just as good, albeit slower being what it is.	[21:39]
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mod6	hmm ok. thanks for testing	[21:48]
deedbot-	[Trilema] Why is it the end ? - http://trilema.com/2015/why-is-it-the-end/	[21:50]
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jurov	http://electrek.co/2015/10/30/the-autopilot-is-learning-fast-model-s-owners-are-already-reporting-that-teslas-autopilot-is-self-improving/	[22:18]
assbot	The Autopilot is learning fast: Model S owners are already reporting that Tesla’s Autopilot is self-improving \| Electrek ... ( http://bit.ly/1l15cT2 )	[22:18]
jurov	A Model S owner .... kept a count of how many times he had to “rescue” (meaning taking control after an alert)	[22:20]
jurov	god save us	[22:20]
*	mircea_popescu enjoys human drivers.	[22:21]
jurov	i can imagine letting the car drive itself with the "rescues" can be exhilarating, but... brrrrr	[22:26]
jurov	is any other heavy machinery driven that way?	[22:27]
phf	asciilifeform: there's some leftover i18n in mpi http://paste.lisp.org/display/158047	[22:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1l15rh5 )	[22:28]
shinohai	There was that self-driving semi in cnn money a few minths ago	[22:28]
shinohai	*months	[22:28]
phf	and for the bored crowd in the audience, some code to add two bignums using ascii's mpi extraction, http://paste.lisp.org/display/158046	[22:29]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1l15vgS )	[22:29]
jurov	!s MMM	[22:32]
assbot	214 results for 'MMM' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=MMM	[22:32]
jurov	https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3qzz7t/the_same_day_mmm_global_ponzi_scheme_using/	[22:32]
assbot	The same day MMM (global ponzi scheme using bitcoin) announces it is pausing operations, the bitcoin price drops $20 in a minute. This is totally coincidental and the recent $100 spike was caused purely by fundamentals and adoption : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1l15ARA )	[22:33]
jurov	^ MMM going to china	[22:33]
jurov	http://china-mmm.net/	[22:34]
jurov	if Party wont stop it early that would be gigaclusterfuck :)	[22:35]
*	sinetek has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[22:37]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[22:44]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 313.7, vol: 26698.93606532 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 304.975, vol: 8008.84387 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 317.16, vol: 40422.71983153 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 340.0, vol: 1.22457919 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 342.689423, vol: 55495.78770000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 315.1685, vol: 46.80657312 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 302.63741, vol: 119.31408839 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[22:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00055475 = 1.3591 BTC [+]	[22:48]
*	King_Rex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:57]
*	archStanton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[23:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00055871 = 9.7774 BTC [+]	[23:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15608 @ 0.00055871 = 8.7203 BTC [+]	[23:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00055475 = 6.657 BTC [-]	[23:39]

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