Forum logs for 24 Jan 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [02:35]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [02:35]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [02:35]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [02:35]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [02:35]
mircea_popescu mats you know on the strength of all that ima have to check out tinder now [02:36]
mircea_popescu it sounds exactly like the way i have been getting cunt the past coupla decades, ie, via the female wot, just somehow opened up to the general public. [02:37]
mircea_popescu fucking disruption ?! [02:37]
mircea_popescu mats: id imagine a feminist would approve of such female empowering tech << i approve, at least prima facie. and im pretty sure im the last feminist alive. [02:38]
mircea_popescu and unrelatedly, http://40.media.tumblr.com/2519e0a13e77cfc6c22d97fd56dc1aa7/tumblr_nie01vcJvo1sn5nr5o5_1280.jpg [02:39]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1JjWXIO ) [02:39]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com )) [02:47]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, jurov, mircea_popescu: bsd not fully optimal on the little machine; presently i have it with a linux 2.6.31 kernel, lightly patched [02:50]
mircea_popescu which flavr ? [02:50]
asciilifeform generic, with several necessary patches from the cpu maker. [02:51]
mircea_popescu not bad. [02:51]
asciilifeform setting up a gentoo userland. [02:51]
asciilifeform idea is to pack the necessaries into a 'squashfs' (similar to what the device maker did with their nas app) [02:53]
mircea_popescu aha [02:53]
asciilifeform very spacious rom (by embedded machine standards, rather than desktop luserdom, naturally) [02:53]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu is gonna pass these out as party favours or what [02:53]
mircea_popescu yup [02:54]
mircea_popescu !gettrust nubbins` [02:54]
asciilifeform one thing is, curiously, missing from the box - a clock. [02:54]
assbot Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user nubbins`: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 14 via 15 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mircea_popescu/nubbins%60 | http://w.b-a.link/user/nubbins%60 [02:55]
asciilifeform it has to be ntp'd every time. [02:55]
mircea_popescu holy hell a sane engineer. [02:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4040 @ 0.00094983 = 3.8373 BTC [+] {12} [02:55]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform tell me why anyone sane would put a clock in at all if he has to ntp anyway [02:55]
asciilifeform precious little 'state' in there. even ethernet mac addr. is software-configured during init. [02:55]
asciilifeform not optionally, as it might be on your box or mine, but always. there is no rom for it. [02:56]
mircea_popescu dude find outwho the fuck designed this [02:56]
mircea_popescu i want to send them a woman in a large chocolate egg. [02:56]
asciilifeform why anyone sane would put a clock << then gotta pick where to connect [02:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform gotta pick that anyway. [02:56]
asciilifeform aye. [02:57]
mircea_popescu it's the right fucking choice for this tool, and the bravery to do it right rather than buy from ibm is staggeringly beautiful to my eye [02:57]
asciilifeform as i understand, this is simply cost-cutting to the bone. [02:57]
mircea_popescu i've seen cost cutting to the bone implemented as "let's make it out of mud" [02:57]
mircea_popescu sundried. [02:58]
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asciilifeform it's a nas, folks expect it to run reasonably fast and not drop bits on the floor. [02:58]
asciilifeform so, can't quite be mud. [02:58]
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mircea_popescu ;;seen duffer1 [03:16]
gribble duffer1 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 10 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 56 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: lies [03:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48800 @ 0.0004753 = 23.1946 BTC [-] [03:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00047433 = 8.4905 BTC [-] [03:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: data sheet reveals that there is, in fact, 64 bits of antifuse eprom in there. but it appears that 'pogo' was lazy, did not use these for anything. [03:28]
mircea_popescu aha [03:28]
* smidge (smidge@HSI-KBW-46-223-57-99.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:28]
mircea_popescu may be nothing fit. [03:28]
asciilifeform there is, however, no rng of any kind whatsoever. [03:28]
asciilifeform most curiously. (there is almost always a garbage rng, on such a chip) [03:29]
asciilifeform this is riotously funny once you recall what their other product was [03:30]
mircea_popescu right. [03:30]
asciilifeform (tor plug) [03:30]
asciilifeform same hardware, incidentally, with different silkscreen on chassis and, naturally, different rom image (it's on their site, i won't bother linking to it, who the fuck cares) [03:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00047367 = 21.8362 BTC [-] {2} [03:36]
Naphex morning [03:50]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-woodcollector-and-other-stories/ [03:50]
assbot The strange case of the WoodCollector and other stories. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ybffU5 ) [03:50]
mircea_popescu hey n. [03:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: linguistic mega-lol >> http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%B1%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%B4%D0%B8 [03:51]
assbot Мохнатые бляди — Lurkmore ... ( http://bit.ly/1ybfsqi ) [03:51]
mircea_popescu lol [03:53]
mircea_popescu i had no idea [03:53]
asciilifeform somehow i escaped knowing of this. [03:53]
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mircea_popescu "длинный шмель" uh... long bee ?! [03:54]
asciilifeform long bumblebee. [03:54]
mircea_popescu uh [03:55]
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asciilifeform (earlier links in log, to english examples.) [03:55]
mircea_popescu pretty lulzy [03:57]
mircea_popescu https://bitbet.us/bet/1111/eur-usd-parity-in-2015/ [04:07]
* WolfGoethe has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [04:07]
assbot BitBet - EUR/USD Parity in 2015 :: 0.24 B (80%) on Yes, 0.06 B (20%) on No | closing in 11 months 6 days | weight: 99`685 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ybi07X ) [04:07]
mircea_popescu check this shit out... ANOTHER parity ? [04:08]
mircea_popescu anyone still remember back when the eur was like 60 cents and everyone was convinced it's going away ? [04:08]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-woodcollector-and-other-stories/ [04:10]
mircea_popescu o hey wb scoopy. [04:11]
mircea_popescu scoopy doopy doo, where were you... [04:11]
* badon (~badon@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:27]
mircea_popescu !up badon [04:27]
-assbot- You voiced badon for 30 minutes. [04:27]
* assbot gives voice to badon [04:27]
badon hi mircea_popescu [04:41]
mircea_popescu how goes. [04:41]
badon Looking at buying a Country Living Mill. [04:41]
badon Also noticed bitcoin ATM's in my travels today. [04:42]
badon It was an eventful day. [04:42]
badon By my standards, anyway. [04:42]
fluffypony http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/blockhains-first-citizen-328 [04:43]
assbot A New Form of ID Allows You to Be a Citizen of the World | VICE | United Kingdom ... ( http://bit.ly/1CMN6qy ) [04:43]
fluffypony lol [04:43]
mircea_popescu so what, buy grain directly an make your own flour ? [04:44]
mircea_popescu fluffypony yeh, was in teh logs. [04:44]
fluffypony ah [04:44]
mircea_popescu s/dumb vice shit/ http://41.media.tumblr.com/918ee965797f2645cc4d39d6f202684b/tumblr_ni6isl6ve51tkiwgwo1_1280.jpg [04:44]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CMNncY ) [04:44]
* mircea_popescu feels better. [04:44]
fluffypony the horizontal stripes? [04:45]
fluffypony :-P [04:45]
fluffypony this makes me feel better: http://i.imgur.com/LzYEnFB.jpg [04:45]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CMNmGa ) [04:45]
mircea_popescu ahahaha [04:45]
mircea_popescu kickass penguin guy [04:45]
Naphex http://www.cnbc.com/id/102355771 [04:46]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnV77u ) [04:46]
mircea_popescu he's like "get da fuck outta here, don't you see this is snow ?!" [04:46]
Naphex "Porn's new capitals: Romania and Colombia?" ;D [04:46]
mircea_popescu budapest sure ain't what it used to be no moar. [04:47]
mircea_popescu and the czechs are fucked out. [04:47]
mircea_popescu anyway, my hope to have each and every "social sciences" major of a us university hacking herself with a dildo for ten bux an hour is moving apace. [04:48]
Naphex hehe [04:48]
badon mircea_popescu: Yes, make my own flower, peanut butter, etc. [04:49]
Naphex there was this funny post on the RoBitcointalk, from a Romanian girl, asking how to make easy bitcoin online [04:49]
Naphex obviously everyone suggested porn :)) [04:49]
mircea_popescu shoulda sent her to http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ [04:50]
assbot I'll pay for your tits pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnVtLn ) [04:50]
Naphex but the only tardy dude that works for bitcoin foundation romania, recommended this [04:50]
Naphex "Eu ti-as recomanda alta modalitate sa castigi Bitcoin pe internet care implica webcam si microfon. Poti da lectii pe internet contra Bitcoin. O metoda mult mai buna cred eu, decat sa te prostituezi online. [04:50]
Naphex " [04:50]
Naphex :))))) [04:50]
Naphex Become a teacher! [04:50]
mircea_popescu right. and teach what. [04:51]
Naphex in op post she said she's learning some insstrument at the viena conservatory :)) [04:51]
Naphex https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=927693.0 ( the post ) [04:51]
assbot Poate face cineva total incepator bani cu bitcoin? ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnVyhU ) [04:51]
mircea_popescu "how to work for bitcoin foundation romania without drawing a salary : advise people to join you!" [04:51]
mircea_popescu Naphex srsly, post her teh tit link. [04:51]
Naphex done [04:52]
Naphex :)) [04:53]
mircea_popescu maybe we end up how to play the vienna flute. [04:53]
mircea_popescu end up learning* [04:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3302 @ 0.00046695 = 1.5419 BTC [-] [04:55]
mircea_popescu "There are all of 3 people on this forum who know who i really am, and every one of them would not sell that secret for $100,000 because they have a vested interest in keeping the secret. What i am is why you will never find out. I am, in fact a world famous artist, my pieces have been in the Smithsonian on exhibit at the Louvre and in the home of pompous wealthy people the world over." [04:56]
* assbot removes voice from badon [04:57]
mircea_popescu well, he just gave himself away, because obviously the Smithsonian lists all artists that it ever exhibited ; so does the louvre, of course. crossreferencing these lists and excluding everyone already dead, we get a list of... [04:57]
mircea_popescu nubbins` the lulz in this thing is like self-replicating. [04:58]
mircea_popescu "There are some really great people here on the forum, and some of you i really like and enjoy talking with like Blazedout and OgNasty and TookDK" [04:59]
mircea_popescu aaaand ognasty's involved in this ?! [04:59]
mircea_popescu jeez. [04:59]
mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/9d28d4ad096b4bd06088985a5eabaf2e/tumblr_nhzgcshiHy1tkka62o1_1280.jpg also, jizz. [05:00]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnVZZB ) [05:00]
mircea_popescu !gettrust assbot Blazedout419 [05:01]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user Blazedout419: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 6 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/Blazedout419 | http://w.b-a.link/user/Blazedout419 [05:01]
mircea_popescu !rate Blazedout419 -1 I suspect, without it being in any sense proven, that he was involved in "managing the brand" of the woodcollector fraudster. See http://trilema.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-woodcollector-and-other-stories/ [05:05]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/80df86773aa16913 [05:05]
assbot The strange case of the WoodCollector and other stories. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CMQC4e ) [05:05]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.Blazedout419.-1:d28e9ad9ae166d0437b767c3aab2568097ab1e4ee6d43b46233e1a05bda33db4 [05:05]
assbot Successfully added a rating of -1 for Blazedout419 with note: I suspect, without it being in any sense proven, that he was involved in "managing the brand" of the woodcollector fraudster. See http://trilema.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-woodcollector-and-other-stories/ [05:05]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [05:12]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:20]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [13:20]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [13:20]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [13:20]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [13:21]
mircea_popescu http://36.media.tumblr.com/095d09d13fd16b21cbfde1fba0729073/tumblr_ni23dyWjR51t0px1fo1_1280.jpg [13:22]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GNZw87 ) [13:22]
mircea_popescu an' top of teh morning to ya [13:22]
Adlai morning [13:23]
mircea_popescu http://pastebin.com/SrVMhVi2 if anyone needs investors. [13:24]
assbot Dear Sir, I represent group of private investors from SAUDI ARABIA, CANADA AN - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GNZRHM ) [13:24]
mircea_popescu just as good as horowitz & co. [13:24]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu has the best porn [13:25]
thestringpuller MOAR PLZ [13:25]
mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/59fee21963c8e285b4ce9428ccf2660f/tumblr_nht66jrgBh1st57i5o1_1280.jpg [13:25]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GO0elH ) [13:25]
Adlai lol those tourists in the background just like "the guidebook didn't mention this one!" [13:26]
mircea_popescu lol [13:26]
mircea_popescu http://33.media.tumblr.com/3767e6b09e411d8db5bc2a3e55af4e7a/tumblr_ni7pehJCqL1rw3hono3_r1_500.gif [13:26]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GO0l0G ) [13:26]
mircea_popescu aaaand http://33.media.tumblr.com/0ee0e58d76da664fe9c7288051642922/tumblr_ni7pehJCqL1rw3hono2_r1_500.gif [13:28]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnM3xK ) [13:28]
Adlai for somebody who so loves social media you sure do spend a lot of time on tumblr [13:28]
mircea_popescu http://33.media.tumblr.com/1705c63468ab1e5af3c770bc6eb89c65/tumblr_ni7pehJCqL1rw3hono1_r1_500.gif [13:28]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnM8BC ) [13:28]
mircea_popescu lol [13:28]
mircea_popescu pictures worth 10k words. [13:29]
Adlai suddenly computer times seem much easier to survive [13:29]
mircea_popescu cunt time, computer time... [13:35]
punkman https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8HRkndIgAA8Gsk.jpg [13:37]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GO2DNj ) [13:37]
mircea_popescu nubbins`: ^ and so the saga ends previously interested parties wander away << http://trilema.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-woodcollector-and-other-stories/ [13:40]
assbot The strange case of the WoodCollector and other stories. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GO3Bt1 ) [13:40]
mircea_popescu you got mentioned :) [13:40]
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mircea_popescu nubbins`: mp you know the logical conclusion to come of this is that i am somehow you, yes? << it is actually quite logical if you think about it. you're clearly part of this bizarro cult that consists of not being fucking niggers. and there's AT MOST one person that may conceivably even be interested in not being a fucking nigger at all. [13:42]
mircea_popescu so... we're all chris rock. [13:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4854 @ 0.00047353 = 2.2985 BTC [+] [13:44]
mats my dude chris rock [13:44]
mircea_popescu nubbins`: live in seoul for a year, count the number of snot rags you turn black, and tell me we can keep doing this forever << entirely different matter eh ? [13:44]
mircea_popescu mats yeah seriously, i think since carlin died rock is actually teh king o' comedy [13:45]
mats china says sorry not sorry fo' black kerchiefs [13:46]
danielpbarron guy got fired over this -> http://imgur.com/u12vtPG [13:49]
assbot CCN author gloats about Coin Fire domain theft. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnOFMi ) [13:49]
mircea_popescu derp ? [13:50]
mircea_popescu i had nfi ccn fired [13:50]
mircea_popescu what's coinfire do, it networks ? [13:50]
mircea_popescu o wait, this works. [13:50]
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TomServo http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/01/4-year-sentence-for-teen-who-tried-to-join-isis.html [13:52]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron: << handcrafted coffee now? << this actually is a thing. I've had it in CR. It looks say like : http://trilema.com/2011/chestii-pe-care-mi-le-doresc-dar-nu-le-voi-putea-gasi-niciodata/ [13:53]
assbot 4 Year Sentence for Teen Who Tried to Join ISIS -- NYMag ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnP01u ) [13:53]
assbot Chestii pe care mi le doresc dar nu le voi putea gasi niciodata pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnP1T4 ) [13:53]
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TomServo heh, 4 years for trying to board a plane? [13:53]
mircea_popescu TomServo wtf is the crime ?! [13:53]
TomServo I'm left wondering. [13:53]
TomServo She was 'on the radar' see... [13:53]
mircea_popescu Judge Raymond Moore handed down a four-year sentence, but announced from the bench that she needs psychiatric help. "I'm not saying that her decisions were all a product of mental illness... But she's a bit of a mess," said the judge. "She has no history in the criminal justice system. She is very young.... Teenagers make dumb decisions a lot." [13:53]
mircea_popescu Moore matched the sentence prosecutors requested for Conley [13:53]
mircea_popescu this is a fucking outrage, seriously. [13:53]
mircea_popescu i bet that's a magistrate "judge" too. [13:54]
mircea_popescu "19yo girl sent to prison for 4 years over her decision to marry someone Obama doesn't care for" [13:55]
mircea_popescu check it out, in the pacific islander nation of the US, virgin brides must first fuck the mullato in chief. [13:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00045814 = 13.5609 BTC [-] [13:56]
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mircea_popescu Pierre_Rochard: ^ definitive proof b-a is not a cult << butt...butt... we promote hate ? [13:57]
asciilifeform or how about the fellow who went to jail for same 4 years for - hyperlinking - a few days ago. [13:59]
mircea_popescu what'd hje link to, again ? [14:01]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2015#989894 [14:01]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2015 02:41:17; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, cazalla, mircea_popescu, qntra folks: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/01/23/barrett-browns-prison-time-raises-cybersecurity-journalism-concerns << today this fella went off to jail. [14:01]
TomServo asciilifeform: I was just trying to decide which is worse. [14:01]
mircea_popescu oh oh yes. [14:02]
asciilifeform he linked to, irrc, the 'stratfor' papers. [14:02]
mircea_popescu yeah, huh. [14:02]
mircea_popescu btw, i PUBLISHED them. back in the day. [14:02]
asciilifeform '“The government asserts that I am not a journalist and thus unable to claim the First Amendment protections guaranteed to those engaged in information-gathering activities,” Brown wrote in a prepared statement he planned to deliver before the judge at his sentencing.' [14:02]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2011/stratfor-lolololor/ [14:02]
assbot Stratfor lolololor. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnPZii ) [14:02]
TomServo heh, was he linking to you? [14:03]
mircea_popescu was a good xmas, 2011. [14:03]
mircea_popescu TomServo tbh i have nfi. [14:03]
asciilifeform 'Barrett Brown was sentenced in U.S. District Court in Dallas to 63 months in prison and ordered to pay about $900,000 in restitution Thursday on charges stemming from the incident, in which he posted a hyperlink in his reporting to information obtained by the Anonymous collective in a 2011 hack of intelligence contractor Stratfor.' [14:03]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it really hurt them, that one. because well... back in 2011 the notion that we come when we please, fuck whoever we want, and leave was novel. [14:04]
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mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/addde248b78033ce14ccb684bff5ff42/tumblr_nhazkgYfhG1u4e2kko1_1280.jpg [14:11]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnRfSg ) [14:11]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: moscow ? [14:13]
mircea_popescu pretty sure that's istanbul. [14:14]
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mircea_popescu but then again i put amsterdam in portugal once befoar, so... [14:14]
mircea_popescu (yeh yeh tis moscow) [14:14]
mircea_popescu full frontal nudity bonus. http://36.media.tumblr.com/e17b9153048c244a2c4a68997593b202/tumblr_nhm729fUOJ1u4e2kko1_1280.jpg [14:15]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnRKf7 ) [14:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'мобильные телесистемы' in istanbul ? [14:16]
asciilifeform lol. [14:16]
mircea_popescu :( [14:16]
mircea_popescu :)* [14:16]
mircea_popescu hm, did i ever dump http://trilema.com/2010/high-society/ in here ? [14:17]
assbot High society pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnS5hW ) [14:17]
mircea_popescu from back when i was rich in 2005 or something. [14:17]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, possibly other folks who work on apple machines: http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions [14:19]
assbot Apple Software Quality Questions | Monday Note ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnSiSi ) [14:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1961 @ 0.00099996 = 1.9609 BTC [-] [14:24]
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pete_dushenski asciilifeform: looks like a pretty decent assessment of mac software [14:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36315 @ 0.00045294 = 16.4485 BTC [-] {4} [14:31]
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pete_dushenski pretty much why i run a variety of the older os'es and quite avoid their work suite [14:32]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski: article is not the first i hear out of serious, habitual apple users re: decay. [14:35]
pete_dushenski this is pretty much the subject of http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/26/living-in-a-post-steve-world/ as well [14:36]
assbot Living In A Post-Steve World | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1BWZB6i ) [14:36]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski: aha i recall that one. [14:36]
pete_dushenski i even bought my first non-apple keyboards recently [14:37]
pete_dushenski hacking on the model m now and also picked up the unicomp knock-off [14:37]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: which apple keyboard did you own ? [14:37]
asciilifeform the last decent one, irrc, was made somewhere around 1993 [14:38]
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mircea_popescu yeh, can't not decay now that cap'n stevie's gone. [14:38]
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pete_dushenski i was mostly using the white/clear plastic 10-keyer [14:38]
asciilifeform unicomp << a colleague of mine just threw one out. worn springs after ~1 year. [14:38]
mircea_popescu the much sadder thing is linux decaying proportionally, and linus is still there! [14:39]
mircea_popescu might be societal brain rot at work ;/ [14:39]
asciilifeform linus curates - kernel. [14:39]
asciilifeform everything else - the wolves. [14:39]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i'm hardly a power user so i hope mine lasts longer than that [14:39]
pete_dushenski the unicomp that is [14:39]
* asciilifeform is compiling a mutilated linux kernel as we speak [14:39]
mircea_popescu yes, he is not as powerful, or moreover, power works differently in foss. [14:39]
mircea_popescu however, it used to be enough, atsme point [14:40]
asciilifeform once there was a town outside the castle - now, wolves. [14:40]
asciilifeform castle - still there, afaik. [14:40]
asciilifeform kernel - works. [14:40]
mircea_popescu yeah [14:41]
asciilifeform and so far resists incursions of poetteringism, afaik. [14:41]
mircea_popescu societal brain rot. [14:41]
mircea_popescu "the people" are simply stupider than they were even twenty years ago. [14:41]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski: what i utterly fail to grasp is why the 'unicomp' is even a thing, when actual 'model m' can be had for 20-50 usd. in working condition (if perhaps in need of a bath) [14:42]
mircea_popescu the latter point, i bet. [14:42]
asciilifeform oh noez, cleaning [14:43]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: my guess is the usb [14:43]
mircea_popescu "The second-system effect (also known as second-system syndrome) is the tendency of small, elegant, and successful systems to have elephantine, feature-laden monstrosities as their successors due to inflated expectations." [14:43]
mircea_popescu fucking wikipedia. [14:43]
pete_dushenski and no need to program keys [14:43]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: another $5 or so buys converter box [14:43]
pete_dushenski unicomp has all the normal mac keys [14:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: second-system effect << almost invariably discussed in the context of 'multics' [14:44]
pete_dushenski model m has to be diddled [14:44]
mircea_popescu no, it is NOT because of "inflated expectations". it is because of the barnacle effect. the world consists of a productive minority and a leechy majority. once a small elegant system becomes known, the previously uninformed majority now has a gradient to inform it. so they swarm the 2nd system, and barnacle it to all hell. [14:44]
pete_dushenski a small barrier to entry, but a barrier nonetheless [14:44]
mircea_popescu nothing is worse for a good project than poorly selected new contributors. [14:44]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: the customary mapping, iirc, is capslock->ctrl, ctrl->cmd, alt->option [14:45]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [14:45]
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pete_dushenski asciilifeform: which is easy enough to do with sizzlingkeys, but this doesn't work on pre-10.7 [14:46]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: sizzlingkeys ? [14:46]
pete_dushenski http://www.yellowmug.com/sk4it/ [14:46]
assbot SizzlingKeys for Mac OS X - [14:46]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: apple's config thing has built-in key mapper [14:46]
pete_dushenski true as well [14:47]
pete_dushenski but apple's config doesn't recognise "alt" [14:48]
asciilifeform this is the thing that always blew my mind about serious apple aficionados - they will pay, 20-100 usd, for a proggy that ought to be a 3-line perl script [14:48]
decimation mircea_popescu: re: judge who threw confused girl in jail for 4 years << nope he is a yale grad http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/11/14/president-obama-nominates-seven-united-states-district-courts [14:48]
assbot President Obama Nominates Seven to the United States District Courts | The White House ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnWhOX ) [14:48]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: 'alt' is, iirc, called 'option' on apple box. [14:49]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah I use unicomp because mac [14:49]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: economists would say that this is the function of specialisation in an economy ;) [14:49]
decimation possibly one could remap keys though, osx actually is pretty good with that [14:49]
mircea_popescu decimation nuts [14:50]
asciilifeform decimation: the two habitual mac users i work with just threw out their unicomps (i think they were..) and bought actual 'model m' each. [14:50]
decimation yeah I would say that the unicomp strikes me as 'plastic-y' [14:52]
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asciilifeform aha. [14:52]
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mircea_popescu i kinda like breaking kbds. [14:53]
decimation re: mac software quality << google just released 3 '90-days' for osx https://code.google.com/p/google-security-research/issues/list?can=1&q=OS+X+status%3DNew&colspec=ID+Type+Status+Priority+Milestone+Owner+Summary&cells=tiles [14:53]
assbot Issues - [14:53]
asciilifeform 37.157.216.140 << armenia?! [14:53]
mircea_popescu seems so ? [14:54]
mircea_popescu !up Alina-malina [14:54]
mircea_popescu ey! [14:54]
-assbot- You voiced Alina-malina for 30 minutes. [14:54]
* assbot gives voice to Alina-malina [14:54]
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asciilifeform decimation: https://code.google.com/p/google-security-research/issues/detail?id=136&can=1&q=OS%20X%20status%3DNew <<< lol! radiodiddle? [14:55]
assbot Issue 136 - [14:55]
decimation asciilifeform: re: pogoplug << http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2284 Arch linux dufus parade has a thread that shows the location of a uart [14:55]
assbot Arch Linux ARM • View topic - Installation on the Pogoplug Series 4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnX2aE ) [14:55]
decimation yeah there's something in the bluetooth stack [14:55]
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asciilifeform decimation: i think i linked the photo here. at any rate the uart is plain as daylight on this board. [14:55]
pete_dushenski i've never trusted apple bluetooth [14:56]
asciilifeform i'll point out that it is not necessary to use the uart on pogo unless you seriously botch the install. [14:56]
pete_dushenski goddamit i barely trust anything a macbook air does [14:56]
decimation what if you want a serial console? [14:56]
[]bot Bet placed: 1.81747625 BTC for Yes on "BTC back over $300 before March" http://bitbet.us/bet/1110/ Odds: 64(Y):36(N) by coin, 64(Y):36(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.59373041 BTC. Current weight: 83,343. [14:57]
decimation at any rate, "arch linux arm" officially supports their port on the pogoplug I gather [14:57]
asciilifeform decimation: if want - sure [14:57]
asciilifeform decimation: iirc arch linux is a systemd-ized turd. [14:57]
decimation yes, it quietly adopted years ago [14:58]
Alina-malina erm [14:58]
Alina-malina hi [14:58]
asciilifeform Alina-malina: who might you be ? [14:58]
Alina-malina asciilifeform, www.twitter.com/aleenamaleena [14:59]
mircea_popescu hi Alina-malina [14:59]
mircea_popescu are you from armenia ? [15:00]
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Alina-malina hi mircea_popescu [15:00]
danielpbarron https://twitter.com/AleenaMaleena/status/528602172124958720 [15:00]
assbot http://t.co/WxIlVnBijB [15:00]
Alina-malina mircea_popescu, positive [15:00]
mircea_popescu lol what's that one ? [15:00]
* danielpbarron is half armenian [15:00]
mircea_popescu and shouldn't it read "buttcoins" ? [15:01]
mircea_popescu !rate Alina-malina 1 Voice [15:01]
assbot Alina-malina is not registered in WoT. [15:01]
mircea_popescu get in teh wot will you. [15:01]
Alina-malina how? [15:01]
danielpbarron http://www.contravex.com/2014/09/23/please-to-pgp-guide-for-linux-os-x-windows/ [15:01]
mircea_popescu one second. [15:01]
assbot Please To PGP (Guide for Linux, OS X, Windows) | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnXKVe ) [15:01]
mircea_popescu a there you go Alina-malina [15:02]
pete_dushenski danielpbarron: armenian eh? you guys are like jooz 2.0 eh [15:03]
mircea_popescu they are. [15:03]
Alina-malina jooz? [15:03]
mircea_popescu Alina-malina jewish people. like pete_dushenski [15:03]
danielpbarron it's just a little genocide [15:03]
Alina-malina ah [15:03]
Alina-malina right [15:03]
Alina-malina heh [15:03]
Alina-malina we are mountain jews [15:03]
Alina-malina lol [15:03]
mircea_popescu lmao [15:03]
pete_dushenski danielpbarron: and financially savvy, neh? [15:03]
decimation re: eastern europe: http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-lithuania-manual-foreign-invasion/26802181.html << lol lithuania gov't, worried about Russian aggression, publicly released a 'handbook' detailing how to flee to poland [15:03]
mircea_popescu "swamp trolls and mountain trolls" [15:03]
assbot Wary Of Russian Aggression, Vilnius Creates How-To Manual For Dealing With Foreign Invasion [15:03]
pete_dushenski Alina-malina: ha! [15:03]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: please, desert trolls [15:04]
mircea_popescu decimation because russia never invaded poland... [15:04]
mircea_popescu they should have had a plan to flee to finland. [15:04]
pete_dushenski and poland never invaded lithuania... [15:04]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski that is the lol. [15:04]
decimation note, lithuania didn't draft all adult males into army, issue rifles, and begin training... [15:04]
pete_dushenski well then, lol! [15:04]
mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/fc6d2e7f75c34047e678136f8a410e8a/tumblr_nhm7344vEM1u4e2kko1_1280.jpg [15:06]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnYk5j ) [15:06]
decimation "In the meantime, Lithuania is slowly strengthening its military apparatus, aiming to raise defense spending to 1.1 percent of GDP this year, and to NATO's own recommended target of 2 percent by 2020." [15:06]
asciilifeform the baltic nazis were rather miffed when they learned what their role in nato would be (human shields, corpse-carriers) on account of lacking actual armies [15:07]
decimation I can't imagine buying a surplus romanian kalash & a few sticks of c4 for every household would be more than a few $100 mil [15:08]
decimation however, what $$ cannot buy is the will to use them [15:08]
asciilifeform decimation: they would have to confront the fact that %xx of the adult men are pro-soviet [15:09]
asciilifeform and will fight on -that- side [15:09]
decimation not hold out finland style? [15:09]
asciilifeform finland is an actual country. [15:09]
mircea_popescu the baltic states are a complicated matter. [15:10]
asciilifeform interesting example of latvia, where, iirc, the greater share of adult men are on 'european tour' (sweeping floors in germany for hourly wage) [15:11]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes http://40.media.tumblr.com/8e788c436213452d04f56f5664ca46e3/tumblr_ncbcyt46ni1sffpvxo1_1280.jpg << now there is a REAL burning man! [15:11]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1uHVPLT ) [15:12]
decimation I had a professor from Warsaw in EE undergrad: he had a joke: what do you call Prof. Zak in an f-16? Simple Pole in the complex plane? [15:14]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: the men of lithuania idem [15:14]
asciilifeform in latvia, estonia, situation is somewhat 'ukraininan' in that the industrial/scientific productive folks are solidly ru-speaking (if not actual ru) [15:15]
pete_dushenski ha that's an interesting point [15:15]
asciilifeform hence, the enthusiastic suckers of usg cock are faced with waging war on everything that distinguishes their country from african pisshole [15:15]
decimation asciilifeform: also I suspect the 'productive' who didn't like living next to ru have already left. [15:16]
asciilifeform decimation: there are only so many cabs in new york to drive. [15:16]
* pete_dushenski reflects on distinctly pro-russian, pro-intellectual veins coursing through his ukrainian ancestry [15:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: also I suspect the 'productive' who didn't like living next to ru have already left. << quite. [15:17]
pete_dushenski decimation: ya, a century ago [15:17]
* decimation has ancestors who came from functioning german settlements around odessa [15:17]
mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me7vlhQ22u1qejludo1_1280.jpg << on their arms and knees. [15:18]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo0jXk ) [15:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu likes visible ribs, or what [15:19]
mircea_popescu the hound too houndy for your taste ? [15:19]
decimation re: clocks in computers << yes, the "RTC" chip with its shitty lithium battery and low-quality quartz is pointless [15:19]
asciilifeform hound poorly fed. [15:19]
asciilifeform decimation: not entirely pointless, as poorly written os assumes a notion of local time before network bringup [15:20]
decimation better to have the money spent on upgrading the oscillator that drives the cpu, so that accurate time can be kept in the short-run [15:20]
mircea_popescu poorly written os keyword. [15:20]
decimation the naming of time is a social phenomenon [15:21]
asciilifeform decimation: and you still need an oscillator, given as the tick counter in cpu (x86-64 has one, but it is not a universal) can stop during low-power modes [15:21]
decimation right, but usually the oscillator is a shitty plain quartz without temperature compensation [15:22]
decimation even in expensive 'professional' servers [15:22]
asciilifeform there are no 'professional' x86 boxes, only hypertrophied pc. [15:22]
mircea_popescu ^ [15:22]
decimation aye [15:22]
mircea_popescu basically they're running 1985 chinese wristwatches [15:23]
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asciilifeform an actual computer would have, at minimum, an 'oven' oscillator (capsule can also house rng.) or even rubidium oscillator. [15:23]
mircea_popescu defo. [15:23]
decimation indeed. or provisions for an external clock that has the same [15:24]
mircea_popescu nah, should be on boardwith golden contacts. [15:24]
asciilifeform interestingly, fpga dev boards often have bayonet connectors for external clocking. [15:24]
* assbot removes voice from Alina-malina [15:24]
asciilifeform golden contacts naturally [15:24]
decimation time is a concern for bitcoin, and I suspect that 99% of your 'ntp' servers trace back to usg [15:25]
danielpbarron ;;isitdown bitcointalk.org [15:25]
gribble bitcointalk.org is up [15:25]
decimation via the 'gps' system [15:25]
asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=668 << see photograph in this article [15:25]
assbot Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1uHZCZM ) [15:25]
asciilifeform the coax connectors are clock in/out [15:25]
asciilifeform oscillator (upper left hand) is socketed and you can yank it. [15:25]
decimation asciilifeform: presumably because fpga board designers are solving actual problem with actual hardware [15:25]
mircea_popescu decimation actually that tracing is why bitcin was designed so time isn't a concern [15:25]
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decimation is time completely ignored in all the 'orphan' algorithms? [15:26]
asciilifeform most if not all public ntp is operated by governments, yes. [15:26]
asciilifeform i was actually going to suggest that ben_vulpes et. al. run an ntp server. [15:26]
mircea_popescu decimation not completely ignored, but one minute disagreements don't matter. [15:27]
asciilifeform if only so that 'pogo' node can be pointed to it. [15:27]
mircea_popescu http://36.media.tumblr.com/5f843d5cc376e98d317f5bc7ff69259c/tumblr_ni19lxkUQC1tkiwgwo1_1280.jpg [15:27]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo1QN4 ) [15:27]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, et al : these boxes won't be ready for battlefield until seeding patch. [15:28]
decimation so the ability to run a clock within 1 min of other nodes worldwide is an implied requirement (or finding someone nearby with the same) [15:29]
* asciilifeform out to meatspace for a spell [15:29]
mircea_popescu decimation no, the ability to keep time within about a minute of what your previous idea of time was when the previous block was mined. [15:30]
mircea_popescu basically the bitcoin requirement is that your time is within ~10% ish of itself. so you can travel at up to 30Mm/sec. [15:31]
mircea_popescu ie, if the network thinks block 2 is mined at 12:00, and your clock thinks it's 17:55, and then block three is, according to the network, mined at 12:11 but your clock thinks it's 18:22 you'll have a problem. [15:32]
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mircea_popescu (numbers entirely arbitrary, hafta look at actual code to get actual numbers) [15:32]
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nubbins` i can't even keep track of what casascius coins i have right now [15:34]
nubbins` where's my spreadsheet! [15:34]
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nubbins` okay, whoa [15:36]
nubbins` how do i still have so many o.O [15:36]
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nubbins` http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tixaa/got_pulled_over_and_my_trezor_was_confiscated/ [15:40]
assbot Got pulled over and my Trezor was confiscated, Police claimed its a voice recorder : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo3xKu ) [15:40]
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nubbins` how many tards are reading that and saying "sucks he lost his tresor!!!!" instead of "what the fuck, the cops siezed a voice recorder?!" [15:40]
nubbins` ACAB [15:40]
mircea_popescu yeah srsly. [15:40]
nubbins` "what if you were robbed at gunpoint? oh wait it already happened" [15:41]
midnightmagic yeah that part was funny [15:41]
nubbins` yep [15:41]
nubbins` fool for wearing hw wallet around neck [15:41]
nubbins` at least tuck it into your fuckin shirt. [15:41]
decimation nubbins`: yeah I wonder what state he lives in [15:42]
nubbins` "got beat up, $5k of bling stolen" [15:42]
decimation could have been for breaking 'wiretap' laws [15:42]
nubbins` decimation texass [15:42]
mircea_popescu anyway, he's not getting it back. [15:42]
decimation http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/texas-recording-law < texas is a 1-party state [15:42]
assbot Texas Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo3MoV ) [15:42]
mircea_popescu oh, the LAW is it. [15:43]
decimation maybe he can argue his case to a 'magistrate' from yale :) [15:43]
mircea_popescu what country do you think this is, syria ? [15:43]
nubbins` mircea_popescu tbh your post went a bit off the rails when you started ranting about niggers, but otherwise reasonably well put together [15:43]
nubbins` 7/10 would not link to [15:44]
mircea_popescu what, i can't take a libertard word and redefine it to cash in on their investment ? [15:44]
mircea_popescu only they can take all the fucking words and do it ?! [15:44]
* nubbins` shrugs [15:44]
decimation yeah, it turns out yale owns the words [15:44]
nubbins` "nigger" is a libertard word? o.o [15:44]
decimation nubbins`: sure is [15:45]
mircea_popescu for the record, the definition of nigger is in http://trilema.com/2013/fried-chicken/ [15:45]
decimation in the negative sense anyway [15:45]
assbot Fried chicken pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo40fP ) [15:45]
mircea_popescu roughly boils down to "us politician" [15:45]
nubbins` so africa is a metaphor? [15:45]
mircea_popescu ayup [15:45]
nubbins` o. [15:45]
mircea_popescu duh. [15:45]
decimation I had a friend who grew up around actual black people working in the fields in the south circa ~1960; they were called niggers and called themselves niggers without offense [15:46]
mircea_popescu and also we're using rape to refer to sexual intercourse now. [15:46]
mircea_popescu no idea why, but i'll grant it's shorter, so. [15:46]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: random: you would like the show shameless. [15:46]
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nubbins` anyway, rang true up until that point [15:46]
thestringpuller Or maybe i dunno. may not be smart enough for you but certain dialogue in it makes me think of trilema [15:46]
nubbins` can't say that pr's personal responsibility post wasn't clattering around the back of my mind while i was making rube jerky [15:46]
mircea_popescu nubbins` well, as the alternative usage spreads the article will become easier to read. [15:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3647 @ 0.00046731 = 1.7043 BTC [+] [15:47]
mircea_popescu nubbins` anyway, you're basically doing what fluffypony was doing on reddit : total waste of your time, subjectively, [15:47]
mircea_popescu but something i definitely respect. [15:47]
* nubbins` nods slowly [15:47]
nubbins` i'm in a position where this sort of thing doesn't really hinder my productivity [15:48]
nubbins` lotta paper prints these days, and paper air-dries 8) [15:48]
mircea_popescu lol then by all means. [15:48]
mircea_popescu also, arguing with idiots is, like figure skating, a sport. [15:48]
mircea_popescu keepos the blood going [15:48]
nubbins` funny cos that WC guy definitely spent 100% of the last couple days panicking and dealing w/ this [15:48]
mircea_popescu nmot the thing to do while your house's on fire, but otherwise... [15:48]
nubbins` heh. [15:48]
mircea_popescu his "fu guise i'm going home" megapost looks like it had outside help [15:49]
mircea_popescu multiple, even [15:49]
nubbins` in the absence of flesh, a whetstone. in the absence of whet, granite. [15:49]
mircea_popescu lol [15:49]
nubbins` i actually am sorry the forum crashed [15:50]
nubbins` he actually posted an image of his "fuck you nubbins" coin [15:50]
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nubbins` big vector hand w/ middle finger raised, and NUBBINS in times new roman caps underneath [15:51]
nubbins` i lel'd [15:51]
fluffypony hand crafted? [15:51]
nubbins` nah [15:51]
thestringpuller http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tixaa/got_pulled_over_and_my_trezor_was_confiscated/ << how is this not news yet? [15:51]
nubbins` illustrator [15:51]
nubbins` just more clipart :) [15:51]
nubbins` thestringpuller scroll up [15:51]
nubbins` it's amerikkka, old news, nobody cares yet [15:51]
nubbins` give it a few decades [15:52]
thestringpuller i like the three k's in there [15:52]
thestringpuller "fu guise i'm going home" << weird how south park is allusion is everywhere. [15:53]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller cuz bingo sleeps! [15:53]
thestringpuller I thought this was a support channel for insomniacs tho? [15:54]
* thestringpuller stays up all night looking for answers on the computer. [15:54]
pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/24/an-uncivilised-breath-of-fresh-air/ [15:56]
assbot An uncivilised breath of fresh air | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo5gQ3 ) [15:56]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller it's like 4pm wtf are you on about lol [15:57]
thestringpuller i'm drunk [15:58]
mircea_popescu $conference [15:58]
empyex mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 2 months and 24 days. Estimated cost today: 8.16685513 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ ) [15:58]
thestringpuller wow not bad. [15:58]
thestringpuller did cazalla ever send you my press credential MP? [15:59]
mircea_popescu not that i recall ? [16:00]
mircea_popescu but i saw you published in qntra neh ? [16:00]
ben_vulpes hola pumperos [16:00]
mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_SS-TyXhhU [16:01]
assbot Los Lobos~ La Bamba~ FULL HQ - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo5PcH ) [16:01]
ben_vulpes [] ive been here a while and i still can't get over the high class white pussy strolling the streets << take any home yet? [16:02]
mircea_popescu Despite their references to the successes of King Louis XIV, both of these books are still yoked by the exact same horse-blindering Churchillian reverence for all that is broad-franchise democracy, and in particular it’s always-in-tow little brothers, socialism and inflation. << this guy. [16:02]
ben_vulpes who's that? [16:03]
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ben_vulpes !up Xuthus [16:05]
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mircea_popescu that is our jewish friend pete. [16:05]
mircea_popescu he's gonna end up a sort of Bertrand Levy of the republican times. [16:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13870 @ 0.00047319 = 6.5631 BTC [+] {2} [16:08]
ben_vulpes i was hoping for someone outside of the echo chamber. [16:08]
mats ofc [16:09]
mircea_popescu shut up and eat your cultpeas. [16:09]
pete_dushenski i imagine that cultpeas would all be the exact same size, zero variation [16:11]
pete_dushenski and be the palest, most lacklustre green [16:12]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: echo, echooo, echooooo [16:12]
mircea_popescu nah, get out of here [16:12]
mircea_popescu cultpeas are fucking m&m's that have spent thirty seconds in a chick's cunt. [16:13]
pete_dushenski o shit they're that good ?! [16:13]
ben_vulpes sounds melty [16:13]
pete_dushenski then why won't ben eat them ? [16:13]
pete_dushenski that hard shell is surprisingly protective [16:14]
pete_dushenski though the colours are sure to run [16:14]
mircea_popescu yeah, i have timed this. 30 seconds best seconds. [16:14]
pete_dushenski such science [16:14]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski runny colors are pretty much the identifying mark of this here cunt [16:14]
mircea_popescu i mean cult. [16:14]
pete_dushenski haha ya, blurring all the colours of all the flags [16:15]
thestringpuller pete_dushenski: you money and my money ain't the same damn kind [16:16]
thestringpuller i can live your life and my life at the same damn time [16:16]
thestringpuller - p. diddy DA RMX [16:16]
ben_vulpes [] danielpbarron: << handcrafted coffee now? << this actually is a thing. I've had it in CR. It looks say like : http://trilema.com/2011/chestii-pe-care-mi-le-doresc-dar-nu-le-voi-putea-gasi-niciodata/ << actually how all decent coffee is made [16:20]
assbot Chestii pe care mi le doresc dar nu le voi putea gasi niciodata pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo8mDz ) [16:20]
mircea_popescu i imagine so. [16:21]
ben_vulpes (the notion that a high grade product like coffee, or chocolate can be made in bulk, in such a way to appeal to the masses...well, this is old hat around here, right?) [16:21]
ben_vulpes i don't think though that we've extended this to computational substrate yet. [16:22]
pete_dushenski thestringpuller: :) [16:22]
ben_vulpes prevailing opinion being that there's no point in making a high quality computing product...yet [16:22]
ben_vulpes [] ben_vulpes, possibly other folks who work on apple machines: http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions << tell me about it [16:22]
assbot Apple Software Quality Questions | Monday Note ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bo8K55 ) [16:22]
ben_vulpes they have this hilarious "spreadsheet" program "Numbers" that not just disregards 20 years of spreadsheet UI finessing, but also disregards their own text input conventions. [16:23]
ben_vulpes horrid. [16:23]
ben_vulpes can't handle trivial column shooping. [16:23]
ben_vulpes references get dropped constantly. [16:24]
ben_vulpes the "calculator" in 10.10 uses javascript [16:24]
ben_vulpes and so...can't actually do math anymore. [16:24]
ben_vulpes the mourning cry is "steve is dead" [16:25]
ben_vulpes itunes has been rotting since 10.4, at least [16:26]
ben_vulpes it was an entirely serviceable music library manager, until someone decided that it needed more features. [16:26]
ben_vulpes the new iphones are lolariously large [16:26]
ben_vulpes *embarrasingly* large [16:26]
ben_vulpes "oh hang on let me take out my tablet to take this call" [16:26]
ben_vulpes "american small" [16:27]
ben_vulpes [] "the people" are simply stupider than they were even twenty years ago. << stupider? or more? [16:27]
ben_vulpes [] this is the thing that always blew my mind about serious apple aficionados - they will pay, 20-100 usd, for a proggy that ought to be a 3-line perl script << funny, this [16:28]
ben_vulpes i was entreated by a girl to "block some sites" on her computer. jezebel, gawker, others. [16:29]
ben_vulpes thirty second task. [16:29]
ben_vulpes *seasoned* apple users totally boggled - "what did you use for that?!" [16:29]
ben_vulpes "uh, /etc/hosts?" [16:29]
ben_vulpes *crickets* [16:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23157 @ 0.0004722 = 10.9347 BTC [-] [16:55]
fluffypony lol [16:57]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes more stupider. [16:58]
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mircea_popescu either that or dnsmasq to root them to localhost. [17:00]
mircea_popescu route* [17:00]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [17:03]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.67, Best ask: 247.31, Bid-ask spread: 0.64000, Last trade: 246.67, 24 hour volume: 14755.03702198, 24 hour low: 230.0, 24 hour high: 249.49, 24 hour vwap: 239.808572793 [17:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00047423 = 9.2949 BTC [+] {3} [17:04]
mircea_popescu $conference [17:04]
empyex mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 2 months and 24 days. Estimated cost today: 8.14434281 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ ) [17:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12846 @ 0.00046809 = 6.0131 BTC [-] [17:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.0004785 = 8.0149 BTC [+] {2} [17:26]
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mircea_popescu http://36.media.tumblr.com/ddd24abce6f5955b395f09174b57e033/tumblr_nhxg7iISA81tkiwgwo1_1280.jpg [17:36]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Boimgj ) [17:36]
mircea_popescu http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/11/09_the-bitcoin-foundation-or-la-serenissima-tilts-at-windmills-or-so-you-want-to-hack-on-bitcoin-or-the-bitcoin-tax.html [17:38]
assbot The Bitcoin Foundation (Or: La Serenissima Tilts at Windmills, or: So You Want to Hack on Bitcoin, or: The Bitcoin Tax) ... ( http://bit.ly/18ckgXJ ) [17:38]
mircea_popescu this is pretty cool reading, coupla months later. [17:39]
xanthyos !up Bagels7 [17:43]
* assbot gives voice to Bagels7 [17:43]
mircea_popescu i just dropped 5 lbs of steel handcuffs on 4 lbs of laptop [17:43]
mircea_popescu no damage. [17:43]
mircea_popescu fucking plastics... [17:43]
Bagels7 hello mircea. why do you post naked women every once in a while? and why do they always have their arms down in that pose [17:45]
fluffypony it's because of his religious beliefs [17:45]
fluffypony they're in their natural pose (preparing supper in the kitchen) [17:46]
mircea_popescu also because they're good subbies ? who knows. [17:46]
Bagels7 how many subbies do you have [17:46]
mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/c55d10880cb8563c4af9aa53724bddc8/tumblr_ng7e3sebuM1tkz70so1_1280.jpg << you mean like that ? [17:46]
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assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BojAbc ) [17:46]
mircea_popescu Bagels7 depends on your definition of "have" [17:46]
Bagels7 well lets use your definition [17:47]
mircea_popescu im not having any right now, im sitting an' derping at computers. i had one earlier, in her ass. [17:47]
mircea_popescu http://40.media.tumblr.com/851963a501c61811525c8a5faae9c63c/tumblr_nhobtbJiel1tkiwgwo1_1280.jpg << hands by request. [17:47]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BojIaB ) [17:47]
mircea_popescu http://41.media.tumblr.com/9695a3751ab2896b73f0f598fc9ad859/tumblr_nh80q1PqyT1txyk7vo1_1280.jpg << legs, also. [17:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BojIYe ) [17:48]
Bagels7 do you really believe all women are useless if not for being a bimbo [17:48]
mircea_popescu usefulness requires a criteria. [17:49]
punkman http://36.media.tumblr.com/ddd24abce6f5955b395f09174b57e033/tumblr_nhxg7iISA81tkiwgwo1_1280.jpg << hey I've been there! [17:49]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/18cmqqa ) [17:49]
jurov mircea's looking forward to hanbot's obituary [17:49]
Bagels7 yes, nice legs. thank you [17:49]
mircea_popescu http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/25_notes-on-increasing-the-maximum-bitcoin-block-size-or-why-it-aint-happenin.html << hey ben_vulpes did gavin ever respond to that one ? [17:49]
jurov she'll be useful for that at least [17:49]
assbot Notes on Increasing the Maximum Bitcoin Block Size (or, "Why it ain't happenin'") ... ( http://bit.ly/18cmvKG ) [17:49]
ben_vulpes nah. nuffin. [17:50]
Bagels7 I think I think you are sexist Micea_popescu [17:51]
mircea_popescu because, obviously, water and soap doesn't exist and who could ever wash! [17:51]
mircea_popescu Bagels7 yes, i believe there is strict and unbreachable difference between the sexes. [17:51]
Bagels7 i agree [17:51]
mircea_popescu so then we're both sexists. [17:51]
Bagels7 but not the ones that people think [17:51]
mircea_popescu well people generally have no idea. [17:52]
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mircea_popescu punkman gotta work on your timing then [17:53]
Bagels7 well there was a bunch of stuff i didn't agree with that you said but I forgot what it was [17:56]
mircea_popescu maybe you actually agreed but you forgot. [17:56]
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mircea_popescu http://editorial.designtaxi.com/news-adsexist1507/4.jpg << lol this takes the cake. [17:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BokO6j ) [17:56]
punkman great set of photos http://www.brainparking.com/view/topic.cfm?key_or=1241034&rate_old=10&type=49&lenta_type=3 [17:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BokTH7 ) [17:57]
Bagels7 my boyfriend makes my coffee and sandwhiches and cooks [17:57]
mircea_popescu so good for him. [17:58]
mircea_popescu yup cute blondie [17:58]
Bagels7 oh so you have no problem when the sexes are reversed. neat [17:59]
Bagels7 who took all those pictures [17:59]
mircea_popescu this set prolly schwarz [18:00]
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punkman who's that? [18:01]
mircea_popescu saul schwartz, did a bunch of kink sets iirc [18:02]
Bagels7 No, the differences between the sexes are breachable. some men sit down to pee because their mother made them [18:04]
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mircea_popescu hardly worth the mention. [18:04]
Bagels7 its really common here in canada that women act like men [18:05]
mircea_popescu only to the eyes of someone who has no idea what men act like. [18:05]
Bagels7 havent you heard about the pussification of the modern man [18:05]
mircea_popescu they'd at best amuse actual men. [18:05]
* mircea_popescu shrugs. [18:06]
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mircea_popescu neoteny is quite universal in teh degerate west. [18:06]
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Bagels7 well i know how men act like, i grew up with only a father, and all my aunts married passified men probably after they fucked a bunch of alpha's [18:08]
mircea_popescu mmmkay [18:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00048182 = 11.2746 BTC [+] {4} [18:10]
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mircea_popescu ;;tslb [18:13]
gribble Time since last block: 7 minutes and 5 seconds [18:13]
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jurov hanbot remember the trilema post that spouse of deceased man is useless except to write the obituary? [18:16]
hanbot or "spouse", for that matter ;p [18:17]
jurov Bagels7 ^^^ [18:17]
jurov he was asking about it [18:17]
mircea_popescu omfg that's not what that article said, and wtf spouse! [18:18]
hanbot http://trilema.com/2014/the-womans-job/ since we're on it [18:18]
mircea_popescu !rate jurov -pi Reading Incomprehension! [18:18]
assbot The woman's job. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bontgj ) [18:18]
assbot Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. [18:18]
jurov *gulp* [18:18]
mircea_popescu now you've done it! [18:19]
mircea_popescu hanbot if you eventually decide to sue for creation of a sexually harassful working environment, pls to direct it at jurov [18:20]
jurov she's working here? [18:20]
mircea_popescu no, but nevertheless! [18:20]
jurov who else is gonna write your eulogy? [18:21]
mircea_popescu im not fucking dead yet, am i ?! [18:21]
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hanbot lol this convo... [18:21]
jurov never late to plan for the occassion, isn't it? [18:22]
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mircea_popescu http://cdn.collarspace.com/photos/tn/tn_1927835p07.jpg?11152013052916 << them. [18:22]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Boo1D5 ) [18:22]
hanbot jurov i've heard of worse premises for dating services [18:22]
mircea_popescu jurov worked as a life insurance sales agent i bet! [18:22]
jurov lol i did for a while [18:23]
mircea_popescu lol [18:23]
mircea_popescu anyway, off to buy the tombstone, bbl. [18:23]
jurov hanbot rather a pickup line, maybe. "wanna write my eulogy?" [18:23]
hanbot haha totally [18:24]
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diametric asciilifeform: its a manual 3 axis, though i think it would take little effort to make it a full 3 axis. [18:38]
diametric asciilifeform: in context of the wood dong guy, he could vary height with the intensity as well, but it becomes really, really apparently its lasered because the edges are always charred [18:39]
diametric not that it matters, his shit is already obviously lasered. [18:39]
diametric also, nubbins`, your dedication to this guy is amazing. [18:40]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [18:40]
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jurov http://hashingit.com/analysis/39-the-myth-of-the-megabyte-bitcoin-block some nice graphs [18:45]
assbot The Myth Of The Megabyte Bitcoin Block ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bor0LM ) [18:45]
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ben_vulpes [] hanbot rather a pickup line, maybe. "wanna write my eulogy?" << i have actually used this one [18:51]
jurov successfully? [18:51]
ben_vulpes yeah! [18:51]
ben_vulpes we were like 14? 15? derping around on livejournal. [18:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9417 @ 0.00048561 = 4.573 BTC [+] [18:52]
davout ben_vulpes: apple numbers is unsuited for math either, it uses floats... [18:52]
ben_vulpes davout: yeah let me tell you about the manual checks in the billing process to catch rounding errors [18:52]
davout not that rounding isn't already an error in itself [18:53]
davout "you want to do some btc related accounting? well, fuck you, the decimals after the second are a $1.99 in-app purchase" [18:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00048632 = 10.6504 BTC [+] {2} [19:03]
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ben_vulpes man seconds really crawl by when one's fucking with cron scripts [19:14]
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* assbot gives voice to mthreat [19:27]
mthreat even the damn catholic church had a backdoor in AES. https://mjos.fi/doc/gavekort_kale.pdf [19:27]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1D3YL4G ) [19:27]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [19:30]
ben_vulpes salud, pete_dushenski [19:31]
pete_dushenski we meet again [19:32]
ben_vulpes have some tits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2RZXeQc5HU [19:35]
assbot Highway to hell - AC/DC (cover) Jess Greenberg - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1D406IO ) [19:35]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "EUR/USD Parity in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1111/ Odds: 95(Y):5(N) by coin, 95(Y):5(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.3 BTC. Current weight: 99,494. [19:38]
ben_vulpes oh as if its even a question at this point [19:38]
kakobrekla bit4x gives you better odds [19:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1500 @ 0.00099992 = 1.4999 BTC [+] {8} [19:40]
ben_vulpes a pauper is i [19:41]
ben_vulpes unqualified 'till i die [19:41]
kakobrekla i should put a banner back on bb [19:41]
mats http://www.dw.de/millions-of-german-workers-in-poverty/a-18212765 [19:43]
assbot Millions of German workers in poverty | News | DW.DE | 24.01.2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1D41zyJ ) [19:43]
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kakobrekla 9.5$, not 10.5 [19:45]
mats http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=723_1421956190 [20:03]
assbot LiveLeak.com - 21-01-2015 Peshmerga hitting ISIS on major Offensive to reach Mosul, Good use of MILAN ATGM ... ( http://bit.ly/1D44Uy2 ) [20:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.0004903 = 7.0113 BTC [+] {2} [20:04]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i don't know that the thing needs to cough up *any* transaction on demand. [20:11]
ben_vulpes any *block*, yes. [20:11]
ben_vulpes any *unspent output*, yes. [20:11]
ben_vulpes my reasoning being that iterating through the blocks is adequate to get complex information out of the thing, and that producing unspent outputs is adequate for "bitcoinating" - eg, producing and signing transactions. [20:13]
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mats allahu snackbar [20:18]
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ben_vulpes another netsplit? [20:30]
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mats https://blog.conformal.com/btcsim-simulating-the-rise-of-bitcoin/ [20:31]
assbot btcsim: simulating the rise of Bitcoin | Conformal Systems, LLC. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D49Pim ) [20:31]
ben_vulpes anything in particular about that, mats? [20:32]
mats sim of 32MB block size [20:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29053 @ 0.00049077 = 14.2583 BTC [+] {2} [20:34]
ben_vulpes "a single machine acting as a full node" << conformal has yet to answer any questions re: what the specs of this "machine" were. [20:34]
mats i was thinking that [20:35]
Naphex https://i.imgur.com/M3Crl1u.jpg lmao. they totally made it look like a vagina ;o [20:35]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1D4aBMm ) [20:35]
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ben_vulpes when i made furniture, we went out of our way to put cunts into the woodworking. [20:36]
mats a man sees what he wants to see [20:36]
kakobrekla looks empty to me [20:37]
ben_vulpes kakobrekla gets it [20:37]
mats https://twitter.com/SayfBattar/status/559073635898761218/photo/1 [20:38]
assbot Cubs in the Islamic State, the generation that will conquer Rome in shā Allah http://t.co/DpkdwrsdmE [20:38]
mats should get em some boots or something. c'mon. [20:38]
kakobrekla wut, leave sha alone pls [20:38]
mats cheapo bureaucrats. [20:38]
ben_vulpes http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01/the-wahhabi-wet-dream.html << related [20:38]
assbot Saudi Arabia's Kryptonite - Global Guerrillas ... ( http://bit.ly/1D4bep7 ) [20:38]
kakobrekla >PS: If the #ISIS jihad can... [20:39]
kakobrekla hashtag isis ? [20:39]
kakobrekla twitter? [20:39]
kakobrekla irc chan ? [20:39]
ben_vulpes derpy guy? [20:39]
ben_vulpes dunno [20:40]
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Naphex <+mats> a man sees what he wants to see [20:40]
Naphex i'm not denying anything [20:40]
mats p sure he's referring to the twitter isis brigade. [20:41]
ben_vulpes not the best english, but what american knows how to write well anyways? [20:41]
mats http://marc.info/?l=openssl-announce&m=142194517308956&w=2 [20:42]
assbot '[openssl-announce] OpenSSL version 1.0.2 released' - MARC ... ( http://bit.ly/1D4bQLm ) [20:42]
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mircea_popescu first! [21:20]
kakobrekla lemme edit that up [21:20]
mircea_popescu scam [21:21]
kakobrekla lemme edit that up [21:22]
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mircea_popescu davout: "you want to do some btc related accounting? well, fuck you, the decimals after the second are a $1.99 in-app purchase" << seriously ? like a power chord that's not six inches long ? [21:23]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't know that the thing needs to cough up *any* transaction on demand. << one can make his own emacs scripts do whatever one wants. notthe job of emacs to provide a preloaded button for arbitrary tasks. [21:24]
* ben_vulpes frowns [21:25]
ben_vulpes are you agreeing or what? [21:25]
jurov ben_vulpes: what is meant by "cough up transaction"? [21:26]
ben_vulpes ./bitcoind getrawtransaction TXID [21:26]
ben_vulpes -> LOTSAH3X [21:27]
mircea_popescu "a CPU profile of the time spent processing a 32 MB block by a full node is dominated by ECDSA signature verification, meaning that with the current infrastructure and computer hardware, scaling above 300 tps would require a clustered full node where ECDSA signature checking is load balanced across multiple machines." [21:27]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i am agreeing yes [21:27]
jurov well, but if you attach a wallet to the node, it will need to crawl whole blockchain to get its transactions? [21:29]
mircea_popescu yes. [21:29]
jurov some means to get individual txs is needed [21:29]
mircea_popescu whoever needs this provides this. [21:29]
ben_vulpes if the node were to maintain the list of unspent transaction outputs, it would also have a list of the TXID's with unspent outputs. [21:30]
ben_vulpes it's a much more tractable problem to find transactions relevant to a given address out of that list than it is to walk the blockchain for same. [21:31]
ben_vulpes correct me if i'm wrong, but address balance is the sum of unspent transactions to that public key. [21:31]
mircea_popescu Cubs in the Islamic State, the generation that will conquer Rome in shā Allah << boys are wearing the stupid face veil thing too now ?! [21:32]
jurov but you propose to maintain only unspent ones? or none at all? [21:32]
mircea_popescu those cubs look like women. [21:32]
ben_vulpes i think that maintaining the utxo list is a good idea. [21:32]
ben_vulpes with the utxo list in hand, a node could create a raw transaction for signing by an offline node. [21:33]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it's a bad idea. [21:33]
ben_vulpes and why? [21:33]
mircea_popescu it's not unlike the "idea" to maintain a list of the phone numbers of the entire planet. [21:33]
mircea_popescu who knows, maybe you need to call someone ? [21:33]
mircea_popescu notwithstanding that in order to call someone, having the phone number is not a big deal. having a passing answer for "who's this ?" is. [21:34]
jurov with bitcoin you need to know your own phone numbers [21:34]
mircea_popescu if every phone had to maintain 6bn phone numbers ? that's terrabit memory on any phone ? [21:34]
mircea_popescu jurov so you maintain them. [21:34]
jurov yea, i'm asking how? [21:35]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: how long does a "rescan" take these days? [21:35]
mircea_popescu this is immaterial. [21:35]
jurov scouring whole blockchain every time address is added to wallet? [21:35]
mircea_popescu design is not a consideratio nof "how long does it take to bale the water out" [21:35]
mircea_popescu built it so it's not on a fucking river. [21:35]
ben_vulpes okay okay [21:35]
mircea_popescu suppose you somehow DO actually want 32mb blocks. how long does a rescan take then ? [21:36]
mircea_popescu no point in importing nonsense into the future. [21:36]
ben_vulpes so i made two claims, let's treat them seperately [21:36]
ben_vulpes a) bitcoind should not return arbitrary transactions by id [21:36]
kakobrekla every time address is added to wallet? < if this is your common practice i think you are doing something wrong [21:36]
ben_vulpes b) bitcoind *should* be able to return transactions with unspent outputs [21:37]
ben_vulpes ... something wrong << what is best practice? feedback from industry leaders would be useful here. [21:37]
jurov okay, so for one to have complete stack, run something like electrum server that maintains the tx index and connects only to our node [21:37]
mircea_popescu bitcoind should put the blocks into an accessible database. the querying of that thing is the job of the user. [21:38]
jurov yu also imply creatng useful transaction index is the job of the user [21:38]
jurov i don't have an issue w/it [21:38]
jurov just want to clarify [21:38]
mircea_popescu there's no ready way to know hat the user will want the index to be. [21:39]
ben_vulpes another claim, for your consideration [21:39]
ben_vulpes bitcoind should not maintain a wallet [21:39]
mircea_popescu trying to invent a "this is the right way" because we're the power rangers isn't the way [21:39]
mircea_popescu bitcoind-wallet should maintain a wallet. [21:39]
mircea_popescu bitcoind should broadcast verifiable txn submitted to it. [21:40]
ben_vulpes bitcoind-wallet should generate and sign transactions. [21:41]
mircea_popescu modular fucking design, so you doin't have to change the whole thing every time a part sucks [for your usecase] [21:41]
mircea_popescu like linux. i don't have to get a new version of lindows to get rid of fucking notepad [21:41]
jurov okay. but then bitcoin will not be able whether relayed transactions aren't completely bogus [21:41]
mircea_popescu txn are verifiable aren't they. [21:42]
jurov if it won't have even utxo set [21:42]
kakobrekla imho 3 parts. private key handler, bc api and a thing in between [21:42]
mircea_popescu at least yeah [21:42]
kakobrekla first runs on airgap, second on my server in dc and third on my desktop [21:43]
jurov so, it will allow me to relay 1000 doublespend transactions with different destination addresses, because it can't check if the source isn't spent already? [21:44]
ben_vulpes txn are verifiable aren't they. << not really. transaction only includes txid of previous transaction which itself has the pubkey required for validation. [21:44]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes so then how "not really" ? [21:44]
ben_vulpes do you want me to say "not at all"? [21:45]
mircea_popescu bitcoind should broadcast verifiable txn submitted to it. << [21:45]
jurov and to do it you need to find all the inputs, if i understand ben_vulpes correctly [21:46]
ben_vulpes like i'm 5, please. [21:46]
ben_vulpes to verify a new transaction, one needs the previous transaction in hand, in entirety. [21:46]
jurov ^all of them [21:46]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes once a transaction is proposed, the software has two options. 1) "oh , this looks like a tx involving inputs i remember were valid" and 2) "these are the inputs. check. these are their sources. check. these are their sources. check. this is the coinbase. check. ok." [21:47]
mircea_popescu 1 is wrong. [21:47]
mircea_popescu and i don't give a shit how convenient it is. let userland cut down the correct implementation for the sake of convenience. [21:47]
mircea_popescu if you check you check. if you don't check, then don't check. [21:47]
jurov mircea_popescu: but it also means it will relay all shit imaginable, you regard it as convenience otherwise? [21:48]
mircea_popescu i don';t see how it will. [21:48]
jurov how else you want to check relayed transactions from other nodes? [21:48]
mircea_popescu by looking at their inputs, an the inputs for those inputs, all the way to the valid coinbases involved. [21:49]
ben_vulpes so then the thing *does* need to retrieve arbitrary transactions. [21:49]
jurov but you sid it should not know anything about he inputs [21:49]
ben_vulpes from *its* blockchain (database). [21:49]
jurov you said it's the user's job to [21:49]
* mircea_popescu doesn't understand why this is contentious and will re-read. [21:49]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it needs to retrieve arbitrary blocks. why txn specifically ? [21:51]
mircea_popescu you can't have a valid txn in an otherwise invalid block. [21:51]
mircea_popescu maybe these other words work better : "transactions" is a useful notion when adding data to blocks. it is in no way useful, or even existent, when verifying anything. all you can verify, both the most and the least you can verify, are BLOCKS. [21:53]
mircea_popescu there's no such thing as "a valid transaction". merely, a valid block. [21:53]
ben_vulpes i guess this implies maintaining an index of txn hashes -> block hashes for lookup and validity checking [21:53]
mircea_popescu you can, for the sake of being silly, talk of "transactions included in valud blocks" but it really doens';t mean anythinmg. a block is a block. [21:53]
mircea_popescu you can't have "half a block" [21:54]
jurov https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules#.22tx.22_messages [21:55]
assbot Protocol rules - Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1tbWAMc ) [21:55]
jurov step 16 [21:55]
mircea_popescu jurov i thought we were discussing bitcoin as a spec, rather than bitcoin as a hack. [21:55]
jurov having whole block wont help you, you need the utxo public key [21:55]
mircea_popescu jurov once it's in a block ? for why ? [21:55]
ben_vulpes jurov: a transaction in a block contains the public key iirc [21:56]
jurov how else you 'll be cerain it's the same utxo that baked in the block? [21:56]
mircea_popescu jurov how do you care ? [21:56]
mircea_popescu im not understanding something here. [21:56]
jurov that's what i'm asking, if you don't care it won't check relayed transactions? [21:56]
mircea_popescu ugh. [21:56]
jurov for all manners of double spends? [21:57]
mircea_popescu let me model this for a moment. [21:57]
mircea_popescu so block 1 is mined, 50 btc > 1block1coinbase [21:57]
mircea_popescu in block 2, a tx takes 20 btc from 1block1coinbase to 1testaddress1 ; 50 btc > 1block2coinbase [21:57]
mircea_popescu we see in block 3 a tx that proposes to take 10 btc from 1testaddress1 to 1 testaddress2. you propose we can't verify what ? [21:58]
jurov if it's laready mined, then someone else verified it [21:58]
jurov but i'm talking about 0conf transactions [21:58]
mircea_popescu exaclt.y [21:58]
mircea_popescu well the block 3 tx i named as "proposed" is a 0 conf. [21:59]
mircea_popescu so you see this 0 conf tx that's being proposed references an input in block 2. which you have and you verify and that's that. [21:59]
jurov you need to find and extract the specific inputs used and check the public keys [22:00]
jurov and if you don't have tx index, that means getting whole blocks [22:00]
jurov to get these keys [22:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00049152 = 8.8228 BTC [+] [22:01]
mircea_popescu ... [22:01]
mircea_popescu i feel like i just spoke into a bag over here. [22:01]
mircea_popescu if you know that block 2 is verified, and you know that 1testadress1 is the 1testaddress1, what more do you need to check ? [22:02]
jurov because addresses aren't the atomic units [22:02]
ben_vulpes if i can interrupt, i'm coming at this problem from an entirely different angle. [22:02]
mircea_popescu thy aren't ? [22:02]
jurov you can send 10 times something to an address [22:02]
jurov thwen wehn you want to spend it [22:02]
jurov you must exactly name all these 10 inputs! [22:02]
mircea_popescu so ? [22:02]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes by all means. [22:03]
ben_vulpes which is the transaction creation process. [22:03]
ben_vulpes if i'm reading correctly, you propose moving transaction creation *out* of bitcoind. [22:03]
mircea_popescu bitcoind-the full node / [22:03]
mircea_popescu ? [22:03]
ben_vulpes i guess a step backwards is in order first [22:04]
mircea_popescu first runs on airgap, second on my server in dc and third on my desktop << seems txn are logically created on 1. [22:04]
mircea_popescu i think of bitcoind arbitrarily as 2. [22:04]
mircea_popescu and 3 is a toolset. [22:04]
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mircea_popescu perhaps this mapping is only in my head ? [22:04]
ben_vulpes you're proposing a new "wallet" that knows how to create transactions. [22:04]
ben_vulpes the bitcoind *node* doesn't give a whit about transaction creation [22:05]
mircea_popescu right [22:05]
mircea_popescu the bitcoind node keeps a db, the bitcoind wallet selects what it wants and does what it pleases. [22:05]
mircea_popescu the bitcoind node makes sure it did what it pleased within bounds, and off it goes. [22:05]
jurov mircea_popescu: pls closer describe your idea of checking the transaction. maybe there lies the problem [22:08]
jurov you singlehandedly rejected the wiki link so you know better? [22:08]
mircea_popescu jurov i dunno how to do it better than http://log.b-a.link/?date=25-01-2015#990883 [22:08]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2015 00:53:08; mircea_popescu: let me model this for a moment. [22:08]
mircea_popescu perhaps ask a question ? reductio ad absurdum ? [22:09]
jurov transaction is not checked against whole coinbase or whole blocks [22:09]
jurov but against individual outputs that it spends. [22:10]
jurov with me? [22:10]
jurov they may even not yet be in block [22:10]
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mircea_popescu !up phillipsjk [22:10]
-assbot- You voiced phillipsjk for 30 minutes. [22:10]
* assbot gives voice to phillipsjk [22:10]
mircea_popescu i don't follow. use the formalism in the model, that's why it's there. [22:10]
jurov because your model says about whole blocks and coinbases [22:11]
mircea_popescu right. [22:11]
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mircea_popescu well... you can't have any btc to spend if you don;t have any btc to spend. that specifically means, a derivaiton of a coinbase, in a block. [22:11]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [22:11]
decimation before block 3 is published, 1testaddress2 sends to 1testaddress3 (both 0 verify)? [22:12]
mircea_popescu rejected. [22:12]
jurov but as 0conf transaction can be checked against other 0conf transactions (remmeber satoshidice?) [22:12]
mircea_popescu jurov but only once the previous is included. [22:12]
mircea_popescu you can't have the 3rd higher in the tree than the 2nd [22:12]
jurov no [22:13]
kakobrekla seems txn are logically created on 1. < afaik you can do it on 3 and just sign on 1 [22:13]
jurov they can be all included at once (but not in reverse order) [22:13]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla hence 3 = tools. [22:13]
kakobrekla yes [22:13]
mircea_popescu they can "prepare" your tx, but for my formalism, it ios "created" once 1. [22:13]
mircea_popescu semantics i guess. [22:13]
mircea_popescu jurov so basdically you're talking of a degenerate case of my model, which sure, as a convenience can be implemented by my model as well. [22:15]
mircea_popescu "oh look, 3 is based on 2 which we just approved, include it too" [22:15]
* phillipsjk has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [22:15]
jurov no i'm trying to explain transactions maintain their identity in blocks [22:15]
mircea_popescu they do not. transactions once included are no longer a thing. [22:16]
decimation so to be clear - before block 3 is verified, 1testaddress1 sends 20 btc to 1testaddress2, and 1testaddress2 sends 20 btc to 1testaddress3? Is that the issue? [22:16]
mircea_popescu they are only a thing while in mempool. but once they're in the block, they melt away. [22:16]
jurov you seem to imagine they got poured into the blocks as scraps of gold into a solid brick [22:16]
mircea_popescu this is nothing but the actual case. [22:16]
jurov it's not the case [22:16]
mircea_popescu again : all you can verify, both the most and the least you can verify, are BLOCKS. [22:16]
jurov because any new transaction explicitly names each idividual scrap [22:16]
mircea_popescu there's no such thing as "veryinfing a transaction that was already included" [22:17]
mircea_popescu that's irrelevant. [22:17]
jurov so to verify if you mus pull the scraps out [22:17]
jurov i'm about new ones [22:17]
mircea_popescu just because that's what you do now doesn't imply it's what you must do. [22:17]
mircea_popescu currently proposed transactions are verified on the basis of historically accepted blocks, not on tyhe basis of historically accepted transactions. [22:17]
ben_vulpes all that must be done is check that a tx input comes from a previous block. [22:18]
ben_vulpes s/./? [22:18]
mircea_popescu no. [22:18]
jurov can it be done without doing the individual signatures? [22:18]
ben_vulpes ah ah but check that a transaction is in a block [22:18]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes all that needs to be done is verify that a tx input matches a previously included output, and that the block was valid. [22:18]
ben_vulpes got it [22:19]
mircea_popescu so it builds on itself [22:19]
jurov for that you want to have the outputs indexed somewhere [22:19]
mircea_popescu this "transactions bloodline" bs is a fetter. [22:19]
mircea_popescu jurov not more than in the sense of knowing which blocks they were in [22:20]
jurov okay, then we're on the same page [22:20]
mircea_popescu i think we mgiht be. will have to re-re-read this sometime that's not saturday night in between cabaret and strip club. [22:20]
ben_vulpes great [22:20]
decimation so, if one 'submits' a chain of 1000 transactions, attached to only one tx output, one can imagine that they might not verify all in the same block, depending on the mempool logic [22:21]
kakobrekla if transaction bloodline is bs, why are we against bc shelling/pruning [22:21]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla because they want to do it stupidly. [22:21]
mircea_popescu note that the way proposed above allows one to still verify the whole damned chain from block 1 onwards. [22:22]
mircea_popescu in general, we';re not against anything power rangers CLAIM to want to do. it's just that a) thjey never actually do it and b) always break other things 'attempting' [22:22]
mircea_popescu and then even more things "fixing" the "attempt" [22:22]
ben_vulpes new topic! [22:24]
ben_vulpes do bitcoind-node and bitcoind-wallet share a db? [22:24]
ben_vulpes s/do/should [22:24]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla let me put it another way : the miner output of a block is actually defined by the code as "everything left over once you substract the sum output from the sum input" [22:25]
mircea_popescu if this isn't proof that a transaction once included loses its identity i have no idea what would. [22:26]
jurov if you need to keep track in which block it is, then it does have identity [22:26]
jurov ofc when it is fully spend, then you won't have to do anymore [22:26]
mircea_popescu jurov afaik you can only "fully spend" inputs. [22:27]
jurov *spent [22:27]
mircea_popescu there's a degenerate case where you gift it to miners, but otherwise... [22:27]
mircea_popescu once you sign out of an output, it's out. [22:27]
jurov we're going in circles [22:28]
jurov leave it to later [22:28]
jurov goodnight [22:28]
mircea_popescu yeah srsly. [22:29]
jurov maybe last try: let's have deposits to mpex sprinkled in various blocks, they are unspent outputs [22:30]
jurov now you do withdrawal, you need to gather and sign all of them despite it's the same 1Fx address [22:30]
jurov that's fine, that's up to wallet [22:30]
jurov BUT [22:30]
jurov everyone who wants to check the withdraawal is valid, needs to gether them all too [22:31]
jurov to check the signatures [22:31]
ben_vulpes how are miners doing it? [22:31]
jurov they check as above [22:31]
ben_vulpes so they actually troll through the whole blockchain [22:32]
mircea_popescu jurov let's take the following case : on march 15th, 1jurovaddress gets 1 btc. on march 20th, 1jurovaddress gets 1 btc. [22:32]
jurov yes, hence the various horrible database turds [22:32]
mircea_popescu then on 25th march, 1jurovaddress pays 1 btc. [22:32]
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mircea_popescu now, which btc is spent through this process is not established by you. [22:32]
mircea_popescu but by miners. [22:32]
ben_vulpes !up buttonwood_ [22:32]
* assbot gives voice to buttonwood_ [22:32]
jurov nope [22:33]
mircea_popescu all you establish is you have 1 btc left [22:33]
jurov nope [22:33]
mircea_popescu otherwise, they sort and spend the 15th btc. [22:33]
jurov nope [22:33]
mircea_popescu jurov i thought we were discussing bitcoin as a spec, rather than bitcoin as a hack. << [22:33]
mircea_popescu srsly, what are we doing here! [22:33]
ben_vulpes i'm talking about the reference implementation. [22:34]
ben_vulpes what miners do is...unknowable? [22:34]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes is this "bitcoin as it should be" or "bitcoin as it is to be inferred from current codebase" [22:34]
jurov well mircea, then make a spec. many people unsuccessfully tried various mixing proposals that were supposed to do what you propose [22:34]
jurov maybe monero has it, dunno [22:34]
mircea_popescu honestly i thought this is what the topic was. [22:34]
jurov but it hasnt' anything with bitcoin then [22:34]
ben_vulpes but you're saying that if i cook up a transaction that has 1march29th as an input, the miners should actually rewrite that to use 1march15th as an input? [22:35]
ben_vulpes how is my signature even valid in that scenario? [22:35]
ben_vulpes perhaps i don't understand what all gets signed. more than likely. [22:35]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah. im just saying, if it's ambiguous, then it's ambiguous. [22:35]
jurov it was never ambiguous [22:35]
jurov nor there was successful attempt to make it so so far [22:36]
mircea_popescu once you sign out of an output, it's out. < o.O [22:36]
ben_vulpes if i want to spend my low-priority outputs, that's my problem. [22:36]
mircea_popescu jurov weren't you proposing that *somehow* there's ambiguous outputs as the entire point of what you were saying ? [22:36]
ben_vulpes much like if you want a > 1m transaction that's your problem [22:36]
jurov mircea where? [22:37]
mircea_popescu now you do withdrawal, you need to gather and sign all of them despite it's the same 1Fx address << it's whjat i took this to introduce. [22:37]
mircea_popescu no srsly, we will have to revisit this topic later. [22:37]
jurov it's not ambigouous, *you*, means your wallet picks up individual deposits [22:38]
jurov makes a withdrawal out of them [22:38]
jurov and no miner ever has a say in which ones [22:38]
mircea_popescu but if they are different outputs, included in variuous blocks... they're verifiable by those blocks... ? [22:39]
mircea_popescu mebbe i dun understand what the problem is. [22:39]
jurov no, they're verifiable by themselves [22:39]
jurov regardless if they are in blocks [22:40]
mircea_popescu 1 btc from block 5, 1.5 btc also from block 5, 2 btc from block 6 -> 4.5 btc to 1derp [22:40]
jurov ^yes now that transaction would list both inputs from block 5 [22:41]
mircea_popescu right, different outputs for that matter. [22:41]
mircea_popescu but the reason you know they're valid outputs is that block 5 is a valid block. [22:41]
mircea_popescu the reason ytou know block 5 is a valid block IS that they were valid outputs, or was at the time, but this is a separate topic. [22:41]
jurov "valid" and "confirmed" are two things [22:41]
mircea_popescu see ? that's the whole thing. that these two are separate. [22:41]
mircea_popescu well yes! [22:41]
jurov you can have valid unconfirmed transactions, even valid tx that spend unconfirmed transactions [22:42]
mircea_popescu sure. [22:42]
mircea_popescu but once in a block, all you can have is a confirmed block. [22:42]
jurov check that is it valid is done by checking all the inputs' singatures [22:42]
mircea_popescu you can't have "these are the valid and these are the invalid txn of block 6" [22:42]
jurov check that it is verified is done by checking it's in block somewhere [22:43]
mircea_popescu that is true but also irrelevant! [22:43]
mircea_popescu right. [22:43]
mircea_popescu maybe the reason we've talked so long about this is because we're saying the same thing/ [22:43]
jurov maybe. the issue was the need to track unspent outputs, regardless of [22:44]
jurov whether they are mined or not [22:44]
ben_vulpes and all of this because i asked about what should bear responsibility for creating and signing transactions. [22:44]
jurov right. and even if node doesn't create txs itself, i'm asking about verifying whatever txs flying around [22:45]
jurov *are [22:45]
jurov ok, see you later [22:47]
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mircea_popescu going at it the other way, consider this discussion : [22:53]
mircea_popescu A. I own 500 btc. [22:53]
mircea_popescu B. I don't believe you. [22:53]
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mircea_popescu A. Here's proof i control address X, and here's a payment of 500 btc to it *included in block Y* [22:53]
mircea_popescu B. A, ok. [22:53]
mircea_popescu what's being verified is a) control of the address in question and b) bitcoin feeding it included in a block. [22:55]
mircea_popescu and now time for me to leave you in teh company of pantsless gal. http://40.media.tumblr.com/30be7e529761c4abe5e30f096eadbe75/tumblr_nhrrym8nc71tkm6r8o1_1280.jpg [22:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1tc0LYs ) [22:56]
* assbot removes voice from buttonwood_ [23:03]
decimation !up buttonwood_ [23:06]
* assbot gives voice to buttonwood_ [23:06]
decimation buttonwood_: do you work for the economist? [23:06]
buttonwood_ nope, why do you ask [23:07]
decimation there's a semi-anonymous column there by the same name? [23:07]
mats seems ddosbot has been powered down [23:08]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2744 @ 0.00049181 = 1.3495 BTC [+] {2} [23:11]
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buttonwood_ I've been really interested in applying the smart contract technology to bitcoin-otc. Are there currently any active smart contracts or oracles doing escrow trading on bitcoin irc ? [23:12]
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mats its not a real thing, buttonwood_. [23:15]
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mats hasn't been done, won't be done. [23:16]
buttonwood_ @mats what's not? [23:16]
buttonwood_ why not [23:16]
mats 'smart contract technology'. [23:16]
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mats because 'hard ai' doesn't exist yet. [23:17]
buttonwood_ what about a multi sig oracle [23:17]
mats all extant projects purporting to be 'smart contract technology' is a scam. like ethereum. [23:17]
mats look, you can't offload the complex business of trust to anything but a human. [23:18]
mats can't be done. deal with people you trust or don't do business, full stop. [23:18]
buttonwood_ but the trust can be drastically reduced [23:18]
buttonwood_ multi sig is a perfect example [23:19]
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mats multi sig and escrow are essentially bad patches to a broken trust model [23:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64709 @ 0.00049611 = 32.1028 BTC [+] {4} [23:20]
mats sack up and take responsibility for your actions. [23:20]
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mats offloading due diligence and trying to use technology as a crutch to paper over deficiencies in your business relationship sounds suspiciously like the old world way of doing things [23:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59891 @ 0.00048544 = 29.0735 BTC [-] {4} [23:21]
buttonwood_ There has to be a better way to do otc trades tho. I can't believe that trusting somebody on bitcoin-otc with a good rating is the optimal solution [23:22]
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mats use the ratings and talk to the raters [23:25]
buttonwood_ @mats do you work on any bitcoin related projects currently? [23:25]
mats nope [23:25]
ben_vulpes use the ratings and talk to the raters << this. again and again, this. [23:26]
ben_vulpes buttonwood_: you can't trust people that you don't trust. end of story. [23:26]
ben_vulpes trust is built over time, and can't be abstracted out. [23:27]
ben_vulpes !gettrust assbot buttonwood_ [23:27]
assbot buttonwood_ is not registered in WoT. [23:27]
ben_vulpes ;;gettrust buttonwood_ [23:27]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user buttonwood_: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=buttonwood_ | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=buttonwood_ | Rated since: never [23:27]
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ben_vulpes you're clearly in a good position to be talking about how business should be done around here. [23:27]
mats man, this sicilian lentil soup is fucking amazing [23:27]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [23:27]
ben_vulpes ;;echo /msg assbot amazing [23:28]
gribble /msg assbot amazing [23:28]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [23:28]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [23:28]
ben_vulpes ;;echo /msg ben_vulpes hello [23:28]
gribble /msg ben_vulpes hello [23:28]
ben_vulpes boo [23:28]
* ben_vulpes is an incompetent hacker [23:28]
mats 21:15:50 <+mats> multi sig and escrow are essentially bad patches to a broken trust model << in the way you mean to use it, that is [23:29]
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buttonwood_ for example, futures and options are largely inexistent in bitcoin. Mainly because of the trust involved if you were to sell me an option. If we used an oracle to do multi sig escrow or step in when there's a dispute the oracle could ensure both sides make good on the contract [23:34]
ben_vulpes there was an options exchange for a while, buttonwood_. [23:34]
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buttonwood_ which one MPOE? [23:36]
* assbot removes voice from buttonwood_ [23:36]
ben_vulpes that'd be the one, yeah. [23:37]
ben_vulpes !up buttonwood_ [23:37]
* assbot gives voice to buttonwood_ [23:37]
buttonwood_ thx [23:37]
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ben_vulpes anyways, there was one. are you aware of why it shut down? [23:38]
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ben_vulpes https://twitter.com/_youhadonejob/status/559174647309021187 << this town [23:41]
assbot Let's hope no one got hit. http://t.co/3tfuQiAbAv [23:41]
ben_vulpes anyways, buttonwood_ are you still interested in working this thread? [23:42]
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Pierre_Rochard buttonwood_ Mainly because of the trust involved if you were to sell me an option. < I’d say it’s mainly because the volatility and discount rate are going to be completely out of whack until fiat is destroyed [23:42]
buttonwood_ yes they would certainly be expensive [23:43]
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Pierre_Rochard hence, “largely inexistent” [23:44]
[]bot Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.30387905 BTC. Current weight: 61,285. [23:45]
ben_vulpes buttonwood_: ^^ that bet right there is a good example of best-in-class contracts. [23:45]
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ben_vulpes arbitrated by...humans. [23:45]
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Pierre_Rochard ^ exactly, the difference between a computer oracle and a human arbitrator approaches nil over time [23:46]
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Pierre_Rochard ;;gettrust buttonwood_ [23:49]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user Pierre_Rochard to user buttonwood_: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=Pierre_Rochard&dest=buttonwood_ | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=buttonwood_ | Rated since: never [23:49]
ben_vulpes assuming they're any good of course [23:50]
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