Forum logs for 22 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

asciilifeform	mod6: neat	[00:01]
mod6	thanks for all your work on V, ascii	[00:02]
asciilifeform	'spreading works, eating - not yet'	[00:02]
mod6	and yah, signing on 16 bits (2 bytes) of hashs is retarded	[00:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00065325 = 40.7628 BTC [-]	[00:03]
asciilifeform	mod6: see thread	[00:03]
asciilifeform	(modern gpg does not sign only the 16)	[00:04]
mod6	yah, gotta re-read here.	[00:04]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54492 @ 0.0006754 = 36.8039 BTC [+]	[00:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45641 @ 0.00067461 = 30.7899 BTC [-]	[00:44]
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phf	so to continue this archaeological dig, GPG 2.6 clarifies the usage of 2 octets. reads the header, reads the rsa ciphertext, decrypts rsa. rsa contains a digest of some fields from header and the body of message. so first thing he does next is check the first 2-octets of digest againts the 2-octets in header. if the two don't match program bails with "Error: RSA-decrypted block is corrupted. This may be caused either by corrupted data or by usin	[00:59]
phf	g the wrong RSA key." message format spec explains "First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we used the right RSA key to check the signature."	[00:59]
phf	for the curious ftp://ftp.pgpi.org/pub/pgp/2.x/doc/pgformat.txt, http://www.spinnaker.com/crypt/pgp/pgp26ui/pgp26uis.zip (src/crypto.c:1289)	[01:00]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JbkSbx )	[01:00]
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*	mircea_popescu is tempted to deed a list of key,values of names of various people and start referring to people as "Primitive Man AFMrikO2o3Ka2pcpZ" instead of "Obama" or "Jean Jacques Rousseau" or whatever.	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	because it's where it's headed anyway, and why the fuck wait.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[01:16]
asciilifeform	straight from pelevin's 'orcs'	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	it is what it is.	[01:17]
asciilifeform	(were issued serial #s, tatooed on)	[01:17]
asciilifeform	orcs can grunt to one another whatever names they like, but only men get unique name	[01:17]
asciilifeform	orcs only need to be distinguishable from one another quickly & reliably.	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	name's a courtesy anyway.	[01:18]
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*	asciilifeform learned, perhaps to his grief, on account of phf (shame on you!) that 'ozon' now takes shitpal. now bought a container of fresh b00kz, aha.	[01:41]
*	asciilifeform will soon learn what, if anything, ru academiderpers did re: crypto in '90s, among other things.	[01:42]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what i don't grasp is why you're feeling so generous - giving orcs unique names.	[01:48]
asciilifeform	what next, serialize the ants in the anthill ?	[01:48]
asciilifeform	let the rousseaus bite one another's ears off, fighting over who is rousseau.	[01:49]
asciilifeform	(also serial #s tend to work poorly unless reliably tattooed on.)	[01:49]
asciilifeform	see also the 'rating folks not in wot?' and 'branding a snake' thread	[01:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41389 @ 0.00064734 = 26.7928 BTC [-] {5}	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	cuz i might want to be able to distinguish orwell from orlov	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	not that experience to date indicates this as likely.	[02:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00064515 = 6.4515 BTC [-]	[02:06]
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mircea_popescu	"The reappearance of HELEN'S BABIES, in its day one of the most popular books in the world–within the British Empire alone it was pirated by twenty different publishing firms, the author receiving a total profit of £40 from a sale of some hundreds of thousands or millions of copies–will ring a bell in any literate person over thirty-five."	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	da fuck is this, never heard of it.	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	probably some inane brit-pulp a la dickens.	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4281/4281-h/4281-h.htm turns out it's from the us, an early attempt at mommy blogging.	[02:23]
assbot	Error 403 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KbIu4b )	[02:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00065643 = 13.5225 BTC [+]	[02:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00068335 = 13.3253 BTC [+]	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	you know, they speak casually of how the bitches they know're gonna introduce the new ones. except... all this is a work of feverish imagination.	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	bah.	[02:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00068754 = 31.3518 BTC [+] {2}	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	an' in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llyhg6sEe01qht4jso1_1280.jpg	[02:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UZgHXQ )	[02:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9846 @ 0.00066909 = 6.5879 BTC [-]	[03:01]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157679.0 << and, of course, credit given where credit is due.	[03:05]
assbot	[Guide] Surviving the fork, or How to double your bitcoins (or save fiat) ... ( http://bit.ly/1UZiOLr )	[03:05]
punkman	https://github.com/shadowsocks/shadowsocks-iOS/issues/124#issuecomment-133630294	[03:15]
assbot	Adopting iOS 9 network extension points · Issue #124 · shadowsocks/shadowsocks-iOS · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1UZjYGE )	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	is that trolling ?	[03:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00066816 = 28.9313 BTC [-]	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	imo related, http://38.media.tumblr.com/cfb0c0419182f990eb81a2ed7124c783/tumblr_nq5a2srt8O1sp2hafo1_400.gif	[03:23]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ME6Gwu )	[03:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86108 @ 0.00064807 = 55.804 BTC [-] {3}	[03:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27850 @ 0.00067939 = 18.921 BTC [+] {2}	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	"A totalitarian society which succeeded in perpetuating itself would probably set up a schizophrenic system of thought, in which the laws of common sense held good in everyday life and in certain exact sciences, but could be disregarded by the politician, the historian, and the sociologist."	[03:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00065793 = 20.7906 BTC [-]	[04:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41200 @ 0.00067953 = 27.9966 BTC [+]	[04:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21013 @ 0.000658 = 13.8266 BTC [-]	[05:00]
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punkman	mircea_popescu: is that trolling ? << chinese problems	[05:12]
punkman	shadowsocks makes your tunnels look like traffic that's not blocked	[05:12]
shinohai	Don't be like Weird Satanist Guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopeFgwApCM&feature=youtu.be	[05:14]
assbot	Weird Satanist Guy - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JAC6ol )	[05:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82640 @ 0.00066914 = 55.2977 BTC [+] {2}	[05:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43594 @ 0.000691 = 30.1235 BTC [+]	[05:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52628 @ 0.00069123 = 36.3781 BTC [+] {2}	[05:20]
punkman	http://www.china.org.cn/china/2015-08/22/content_36385958.htm	[05:21]
assbot	Fisherman nets a spy device in S China Sea- China.org.cn ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrtuP3 )	[05:22]
shinohai	I hope that somewhere in the AM data, it is revealed Josh Duggar snorted coke off of a tranny's cock.	[05:25]
punkman	lulz http://burners.me/2014/08/17/prepare-for-the-playa-police/	[05:26]
assbot	Prepare for the Playa Police [Update] \| Burners.Me: Me, Burners and The Man ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrtJtw )	[05:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00069586 = 43.6304 BTC [+] {2}	[05:40]
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mircea_popescu	;;later tell schmidty fix your connection.	[05:42]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[05:42]
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punkman	http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/reuters/three-wounded-in-shooting-on-amsterdam-to-paris-train/41617438	[05:49]
assbot	U.S. soldier wounded helping to overpower gunman on train in France - SWI	[05:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00070115 = 14.7242 BTC [+]	[05:50]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc	[05:51]
assbot	Dont Talk to Police - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Eb9W1b )	[05:51]
punkman	http://www.ibtimes.com/sprout-pharmaceuticals-ceo-talks-female-viagra-controversy-additional-alcohol-studies-2061110	[05:57]
assbot	Sprout Pharmaceuticals CEO Talks 'Female Viagra' Controversy, Additional Alcohol Studies, Addyi's U.S. Roll-Out And Global Ambitions ... ( http://bit.ly/1Eba5By )	[05:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16605 @ 0.00070554 = 11.7155 BTC [+] {2}	[06:04]
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mircea_popescu	sprout pharmaceuticals is a new altcoin or what.	[06:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 66099 @ 0.00002287 = 1.5117 BTC [-] {11}	[06:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00070064 = 15.379 BTC [-] {2}	[06:29]
shinohai	* I want a blockchain!* Us too!	[06:31]
punkman	heh http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-who-found-evidence-for-gluten-sensitivity-have-now-shown-it-doesn-t-exist	[06:37]
assbot	Scientists who found gluten sensitivity evidence have now shown it doesn't exist - ScienceAlert ... ( http://bit.ly/1TZjgvZ )	[06:37]
mircea_popescu	doh.	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	all us tinfoil hats with our crazy notions about how shit that doesn't exist doesn't exist.	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile how did that quote go, i really liked that thing, with social biddings and shit	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-08-2015#1247708	[06:42]
assbot	Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247709	[06:43]
assbot	Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: The rest of us who actually make shit happen in the front lines of consensus back on planet earth will continue to be unaffected by your efforts apart from their modest value as chuckle fuel over beers and sushi."	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	very happen much front lines actual earth &c.	[06:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00069891 = 13.9782 BTC [-]	[06:44]
fluffypony	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMy8UicVAAAZOjX.jpg:large	[06:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TZk0Bp )	[06:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00069891 = 33.967 BTC [-]	[06:47]
punkman	http://motherboard.vice.com/read/ashley-madison-hackers-speak-out-nobody-was-watching	[06:47]
assbot	Ashley Madison Hackers Speak Out: 'Nobody Was Watching' \| Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1TZk43T )	[06:47]
punkman	"1/3 of pictures are dick pictures and we won't dump."	[06:48]
*	mircea_popescu is not reading a vice regurgitation of anything. got the actual link ?	[06:49]
punkman	it's original	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	then their mother can read it & care.	[06:50]
mircea_popescu	if it's "original" to vice it's a lie by vice.	[06:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15450 @ 0.00067398 = 10.413 BTC [-]	[06:50]
punkman	"Motherboard was given a contact email address for The Impact Team by an intermediary. After reaching out, the hackers replied with a message signed with the same PGP key posted with the Ashley Madison dumps. " << of course they couldn't provide the signed replies	[06:51]
mircea_popescu	either they stole someone's shit, in which case i want the original ; or else they made it up, in which case i dun want to hear it.	[06:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00067023 = 23.7932 BTC [-]	[06:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34574 @ 0.00070623 = 24.4172 BTC [+] {3}	[06:59]
mircea_popescu	but since we're doing lulz, check out what the dragnet drug up https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/17zq8j/because_most_people_are_idiots_in_spite_of_never/c8aabj7	[07:01]
assbot	ThePiachu comments on Because most people are idiots, in spite of never manning up and admitting to it ... ( http://bit.ly/1TZkSpq )	[07:01]
shinohai	^ LOLZ	[07:03]
cazalla	anyone else read his name as thepikachu?	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	that's the subreddit mod neh ?	[07:06]
cazalla	i believe so	[07:06]
cazalla	next to theymos anyway	[07:07]
shinohai	yes he is mod of r/cryptocurrency too?	[07:09]
shinohai	phd or something important hur durr	[07:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9149 @ 0.00067023 = 6.1319 BTC [-]	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	anyway, turns out trilema's linked from tons of various reddits in all sorts of topics, from recovering tlp old posts he apparently deleted to whatever random other thing.	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	it	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	s just they don't amount to much traffic wise, even when piled together, which is how i've never noticed before.	[07:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14189 @ 0.00070831 = 10.0502 BTC [+] {2}	[07:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42650 @ 0.00071281 = 30.4013 BTC [+] {3}	[07:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56982 @ 0.00066857 = 38.0965 BTC [-] {2}	[07:46]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[15:38]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[15:38]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[15:38]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[15:38]
mod6	ok, here is the diffs between your posted patches w/timestamps v. new ones w/o ts: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/rel1-test-20150822.patch && http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/rel2-pre-test-20150822.patch	[15:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1h41BkQ )	[15:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1h41BkS )	[15:38]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[15:38]
asciilifeform	mod6: now try applying these in the known order.	[15:39]
asciilifeform	mod6: see, for example, if you can bitwise-reconstitute REL1.	[15:39]
mod6	yeah. you know... was just looking at these closer. i think i screwed something up	[15:40]
mod6	the hashes don't match.	[15:40]
asciilifeform	they have to match.	[15:40]
mod6	i did something wrong here.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform say, you keep sending me these carets, what are they supposed to do ? add to my collection ?	[15:40]
mod6	lemme blow these away	[15:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not sure what i was thinking there!	[15:41]
asciilifeform	add to a collection thereof, i suppose.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	i got one from yest, too :)	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	mebbe they made a soup, who knows. ima ask teh girls.	[15:41]
asciilifeform	they go well with tea	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	irc, an ADVENTURE!~	[15:41]
asciilifeform	i was about to say.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, why the fuck is ^ called a caret. a caret is supposed to go below the line.	[15:42]
asciilifeform	it is a CARROT	[15:42]
asciilifeform	not a caret.	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	oh i guess they were using it historicaly for the line above huh	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	that weird feeling when you wake up at 4pm, everyone's gone to do useful stuffs and you have a pile of explanatory notes, aggregated foodstuffs and so forth.	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	i feel like a very old man.	[15:44]
mod6	ok i think i see what I did wrong here... just a minute.	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248274 << you know this is ~extremely~ common. maybe even half the fine art privately owned / displayed at any time is fake.	[15:46]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 13:02:32; assbot: How a Chinese librarian made $6 million in forged art over two years \| National Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEGQZh )	[15:46]
asciilifeform	not common enough! if there are still $40mil auctions for'em	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	that has nothin to do.	[15:46]
asciilifeform	let ten quintillion indistinguishable fakeassos bloom.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	at the mental level where us adults are, $500 mn for soccer trading cards would not be amiss.	[15:47]
asciilifeform	only if they can be provenanced.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	this is like "only if he can be voted into office"	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	he'll be voted, if that's what keeps millions from raining.	[15:47]
asciilifeform	nah, it doesn't work if someone can walk into a dark closet and emerge with two indistinguishable costly pet rocks.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	orly.	[15:47]
asciilifeform	double-spend	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	this is like, "it doesn't work if i come back home and there's TWO almost dressed blondies waiting for me"	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	orly!	[15:48]
asciilifeform	if can doublespend, can run arse-mouth system hose, and now you're using 'blondies' as construction material and can't give'em away fast enough	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	ayup.	[15:48]
asciilifeform	before you know it, they're boat ballast	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	~= africa.	[15:48]
asciilifeform	but, if understand correctly, there is an alternate hypothesis: the costly and elaborate 'authentification' is not to authenticate, but to annoint	[15:50]
asciilifeform	rockefeller's vermeer is genuine and fuckyou because he is rockefeller; the one mr schmuck found in his cellar - will be annointed fake (or no one will even bother) unless it suits a rockefeller to bless it.	[15:51]
asciilifeform	(so he can pick it up for $1000 and magick it into $40m)	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	what part of doublethink you think got cancelled ? the man with two maja desnudas simply is twice as happy.	[15:53]
asciilifeform	i am enthusiastically in favour of elaborate art fraudsters if they can ddos this process.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	this would be true if there existed a usg agency of authenticity.	[15:53]
asciilifeform	not twice as happy if he can't buy 2x the turkeys	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	speaking of goya, ever seen un coup fumant ?	[15:53]
asciilifeform	can't say i have	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	ancient film with toto. know him ?	[15:54]
asciilifeform	nope	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	italian comic of the war period.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	anyway, pretty much your idea : a wanna-be rockefeller (except fraudster-y) hires an eccentric copyer to make an intermediate maja	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	(goya has a dressed maja and a nude one, they were goin to make "la maja en chemise")	[15:55]
asciilifeform	pretty sure someone linked to a modern rerun of this concept, earlier.	[15:56]
asciilifeform	(and i bet there are 25 films like this)	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	quite exactly.	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	fine art is either fine for its fine-ness or then not even art at all.	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	much like a good performance of a march does not get anulled through having been "not the original" and nobody sticks around to compare the brass instruments used	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	("oh this march is from 1722 and then they put antimony in the brass. this march was a fake!)	[15:57]
asciilifeform	surely	[15:57]
asciilifeform	except that we have a handful of wealthy and demented folk who turned the whole shebang into a kind of primitive altcoin	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	which is how 99% of these "fake fine art" arguments are settled - no eggyolk in the pigment or shit	[15:58]
asciilifeform	aha	[15:58]
asciilifeform	well-known, i thought.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	as fucking if.	[15:58]
asciilifeform	(hence the linked article where chinese fella used vintage paper, ink)	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	also, the thing is, it's perfectly legal to order and own, and trade etc COPIES	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	not like the things are under copyright anymore.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	the only illegal part is fraud, obviously.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	so it's kinda a forgone conclusion, art authenticity.	[15:58]
asciilifeform	but the pretence is maintained so rockefeller's stash can be inflationproof. and folks who try to fuck with the pretence, often Have Problems.	[15:59]
*	mircea_popescu would not feel particularly better for owning the "actual" copy of a painting he likes rather than a very good one. actually i'd feel like a total fool.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	besides, the modern copy can be fix. i much prefer my own rewrites of classical poems to the originals anwyay.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	and the historical master's taste in women shows they never met any for crying out loud.	[16:00]
asciilifeform	this is because mircea_popescu is still thinking of these items as artwork, to look at	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	i don't remember any classical nude i like the face of.	[16:00]
asciilifeform	lizards just keep'em in bottles of argon	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, this suggests a fine exercise for the esteemed lordship and beyond. not everything in this life is code, and a gentleman needs to study and know a loit more than rubies. so therefore : which classical nude do you like the face of ?	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	but i don't mean copacetically like. i mean like like one's supposed to like art : un coup fumant. if she came off the toille you'd have no choice but to drop everything and marry her.	[16:02]
asciilifeform	how about botticelli's venus ?	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	i dunno, what you like is what you like. to me she seems dumb.	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	much like maja has the face of a sly thirteen year old.	[16:03]
asciilifeform	but least so	[16:03]
asciilifeform	of all the ones i can recall.	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	i do not wish to consort with preteens ffs.	[16:03]
*	mircea_popescu looks again	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	mneah. i dun like it, not my kinda woman.	[16:04]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'на вкус и на цвет товарища нет' (tm) (r)	[16:04]
asciilifeform	(how do you englisch that?)	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	anyway. people like alma-tadema, godward etc do women that look more like adults	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	"de gustibus" ?	[16:06]
asciilifeform	^ approx.	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	color and taste aren't comrades ?	[16:06]
asciilifeform	no	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	it literally sayz, za taste and za color, comrades not.	[16:07]
asciilifeform	again no.	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	wut are teh words mean!	[16:08]
asciilifeform	for colour or taste, ain't no such thing as friend	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	ooo yeah	[16:08]
*	ag3nt_zer0 (328f93cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.143.147.207) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	>in< color and taste there aren't comrades	[16:09]
asciilifeform	aha.	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	anyway, upon consideration venus does have to some degree the sharp features of the ideal fox. at least moreso than all the piefaces everyone wants to paint for some reason	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Edouard_Manet_-_Luncheon_on_the_Grass_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg < wtf is that.	[16:11]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KcFV1K )	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	great idea, great painting, why does the woman's face look like it was peeled off asphalt pizza	[16:12]
asciilifeform	ugh	[16:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00070309 = 17.3663 BTC [-]	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	from punkman's article :	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	Authenticating a work of art is often difficult, and more difficult when the art is four or five hundred years old, and at least one tool for the expert, to wit, provenance, is often limited or non-existent. And, science (materials analysis) does not get us very far since many of the problems for Old Masters come right out of the artist's studio (think Rembrandt). Thus, for Old Masters at least, the expert is left to r	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	ely almost entirely on expert opinion concerning the quality of the art, that is to say, is the quality of the art being examined of the quality expected of a painting by the artist—in this case, Caravaggio.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	And then, when the experts have come to their conclusion, and that conclusion is challenged in court, (as opposed to the marketplace or in critical writing), a judge must decide that the experts were right or wrong.	[16:15]
asciilifeform	'in savour or hue, no comrades have you'	[16:15]
asciilifeform	^ finally a working english.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	rank fucking nonsense. it should be clearly obvious this is not something the court can do.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	"oh, but we already do guilt and innocence, which are ALSO transcendents"	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	"yes, but you do those BY SPECIAL MANDATE!.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	quo fucko warranto you do it for art, too!	[16:16]
asciilifeform	hence why i said 'they annoint under pretence of adjudicating'	[16:16]
asciilifeform	sop lizard service.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i have nfi why you think 'in savour or hue, no comrades have you' better than "in color or taste there's no comrades"	[16:17]
asciilifeform	because it checksums.	[16:17]
*	referredbyqntra (b01aa537@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.26.165.55) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	(it rhymes in russian because it's russian. a language from 1700! it needn't rhyme in english, unless we're going for faux-peasant wisdom)	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	!up referredbyqntra	[16:18]
-assbot-	You voiced referredbyqntra for 30 minutes.	[16:18]
*	assbot gives voice to referredbyqntra	[16:18]
*	referredbyqntra has quit (Client Quit)	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, isn't this also strictly wrong ? wasn't it the case that the whole village ate ~the exact same dish~ every day forever ?	[16:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00072009 = 24.5551 BTC [+] {3}	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	in romania it was polenta + cheese + onion cut up.	[16:19]
asciilifeform	ate because it was 'on the menu'	[16:19]
asciilifeform	not because 'we all love'	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	but it did make comraderie.	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	they did say so!	[16:19]
asciilifeform	aha. so does prison.	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	so then.	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	but no, it is oft seen as an ideal.	[16:19]
*	asciilifeform notice, did not sign it as 'ideal'	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	"no, i dont think they were townpeople [ie idiots] because when sitting to repast they took out mamaliga cu brinza like normal pewople]	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	no i mean, the common, standard foodl. regarded as ideal by the village prisoners.	[16:20]
asciilifeform	!s american cheese	[16:21]
assbot	13 results for 'american cheese' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=american+cheese	[16:21]
asciilifeform	^ same effect, discussed in at least one old thread	[16:21]
asciilifeform	folks will go and look for the shitsoup they grew up with, yes.	[16:21]
*	mircea_popescu actually likes it, has it in argentina even.	[16:21]
asciilifeform	which?	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	perhaps the only time romania's ww1 peculiar dish was eaten here this millenium	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	mamaliga cu brinza.	[16:21]
asciilifeform	the porrige? nothing wrong with that	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	it's usually boiled into solid. something like http://www.romaniadevis.ro/dacia/cache/com_zoo/images/mamaliga-cu-branza-si-smantana_0021_008f3c26469f8cb5dd3dd0f6a0301d8a.JPG	[16:22]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KcGXuB )	[16:22]
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*	asciilifeform knows of this dish only from father, who travelled a good bit in ro	[16:23]
asciilifeform	(in the old days)	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	it's not really hard to make, need pot with water and coarse ground corn. and a woman that knows how long to boil it and what proportions.	[16:23]
*	asciilifeform only learned how to make proper 'манная каша' (english, approx, 'cream of wheat') as an adult; and is still tempted to try doing it in a chemist's double boiler with magnetic stir bar	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	casa's different	[16:25]
asciilifeform	but mentioned because it suffers from same problem	[16:25]
asciilifeform	has to be kept at low boil for entire time	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	more heavily, ithink	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[16:25]
asciilifeform	and stirred or it bakes onto the pot	[16:25]
mod6	asciilifeform: ok, got it figured: check here please: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/rel1-test-20150822.patch && http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/rel2-pre-test-20150822.patch	[16:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1h41BkQ )	[16:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1h41BkS )	[16:25]
asciilifeform	hence it is absolutely begging for chemist's boiler and magnetic stirrer	[16:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0	[16:25]
*	trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	ture.	[16:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11168 @ 0.00072036 = 8.045 BTC [+] {2}	[16:26]
asciilifeform	mod6: these look superficially correct, but need to be 1) compared mechanically and 2) rebased as i spoke of earlier	[16:26]
mod6	yup yup, i recall. just trying to make sure i'm on the right track so i don't waste everyones time :]	[16:27]
asciilifeform	mod6: very much on right track	[16:27]
mod6	good deal. i'll see what I can do about the mechanical checking and rebasing maybe later tonight, or tomorrow for sure.	[16:28]
asciilifeform	mod6: neat	[16:28]
ag3nt_zer0	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248275 << ever looked at this?: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/f_for_fake/	[16:29]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 13:05:58; punkman: "before he resigned from the library he realized that his trick had occurred to someone else. Several of the paintings he made had been replaced, his copies stolen. So the Academy was exhibiting fakes of fakes and someone was selling, or trying to sell, art by Xiao."	[16:29]
assbot	F for Fake (1974) - Rotten Tomatoes ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcHxZv )	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	For every auction sale, a catalogue is produced describing each painting to be sold. Every entry indicates the certainty with which Sotheby's is prepared to attribute it to a particular artist. The catalogue entry may describe a painting in the following ways: i) Simply putting the name of the artist, for example, ‘Giovanni Bellini,' means that, in Sotheby's opinion, the work is by Bellini. ii) Attributed to Giovanni	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	Bellini means that, in Sotheby's opinion, this is probably a work by Bellini, but there is less certainty expressed as to authorship than in the preceding category. iii) Studio of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, this is a work by an unknown hand in the studio of Bellini, and it may or may not have been executed under his direction. iv) Circle of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, it is a wor	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	k by an as yet unidentified but distinct hand, closely associated with Bellini but not necessarily his pupil. v) Style/Follower of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, this is a work by a painter working in Bellini's style, contemporary or nearly contemporary, but not necessarily his pupil. ‘Contemporary or nearly contemporary' means that it was painted within about 50 years of Bellini's work. vi) Manner of	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	Giovanni Bellini means that in their opinion, this is a work in the style of Bellini and of a later date. vii) After Giovanni Bellini means that in their opinion, this is a copy of a known work of Bellini.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	check these people out, they have fine art authorship grading down to a fine art!	[16:30]
asciilifeform	i can't wait till they start doing circus like this for, e.g., a pgp signature	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	the merit of a pgp signature is that it delivers them from having to do this.	[16:32]
asciilifeform	like that czech short story, author i can't recall, where a 'graphologist' is made to pronounce re: the authenticity of a typewritten page!	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	do not think that the intelligent people caught like bubbles in the fiat mire are happy to be there.	[16:32]
asciilifeform	proceeding from a mandated assumption that it was written by human hand	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	this is commonly done! typewriters are handwriters.	[16:32]
asciilifeform	yes, but not done as graphology	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	nonono. there is such a thing as "identify typewriter"	[16:32]
asciilifeform	but as own legit procedure, invented later	[16:33]
asciilifeform	aha	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	well yeah	[16:33]
asciilifeform	this was prior.	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	a ok	[16:33]
ag3nt_zer0	"The final directorial project the legendary Orson Welles completed during his lifetime, F for Fake is less a documentary than an example of cinematic free association on the topic of trickery. Much of the film is in fact drawn from other sources, most notably an unfinished documentary by Francois Reichenbach on the notorious Elmyr de Hory, whose extremely skillful forgeries of famous paintings caused scandals amongst art	[16:33]
ag3nt_zer0	of irony, de Hory's interviewer is author Clifford Irving, who became infamous due to a forgery of his own: a falsified autobiography of Howard Hughes. Welles openly re-edits and manipulates this footage, using it as a spine for his own commentary, arguing that there is an extremely close relationship between art and lying, and citing instances from his own career to prove the point."	[16:34]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248670 << i still see ~actual authentication~ as being ~incidental~ to these proceedings. as in j.e.hoover's famous quip 'justice is incidental to law and order'	[16:34]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 19:30:03; mircea_popescu: the merit of a pgp signature is that it delivers them from having to do this.	[16:34]
asciilifeform	they don't 'have to', but want to. the conclusion is pre-ordained.	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	i do not share this view.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	ag3nt_zer0 i dun think much of welles as a director.	[16:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57650 @ 0.0007213 = 41.5829 BTC [+] {4}	[16:36]
ag3nt_zer0	ok, don't really have an opinion on him myself, but I thought that film was quite entertaining... like a cinematic hall of mirrors or something	[16:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: consider, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-03-2015#1044114 - ergo, 'this vermeer, in the gallery of our esteemed lord rothchild, is genuine. this picasso, in the suitcase of this ragged thief and scoundrel, is most certainly questionable.'	[16:38]
assbot	Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:02; mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.	[16:38]
ag3nt_zer0	and Irving and Elmyr are quite the characters haha	[16:38]
asciilifeform	and the 'questionable' is 'surely genuine' when ragged man goes to jail and the canvas finds its way to lord rothchild.	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	you have a strange equivocation of power an' legitimacy going on there, asciilifeform	[16:38]
asciilifeform	hm?	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	justice covers two different things.	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	or how shall i put this, there are two types of question justice answers.	[16:39]
ag3nt_zer0	mircea_popescu: who do you hold in high esteem as a director?	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	felini.	[16:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: two?	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	but honestly, Visconti is probably the best dirctor that ever lived.	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes. vaguely speaking, one's a contest among the crowd of boys. "everyone wants to be the one at the wheel, so who shall ?"	[16:42]
ag3nt_zer0	thanks I will look	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	the other's a more fundamental type of dispute, you could stilisize as "between man and god".	[16:42]
asciilifeform	i see the proceedings of that court as similar to those of all modern courts: a continuation of the basic lie of 'rule of law', where 'it is not the sultan who condemns you to impalement, but the majesty of the law'	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	roman practice suffered the tension, but also made it amply abundant	[16:43]
asciilifeform	a legitimacy-washing.	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	you do this because you don't recognise the fundamental tension, and so examples in one line cloud your estimation of the other.	[16:43]
*	Xuthus has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	but you're familiar with the roman, and originally greek notions of "broke the laws of men and gods" yes ?	[16:44]
asciilifeform	aha	[16:44]
asciilifeform	the spray paint was thinner in those days	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	this does not at all translate into civil and criminal	[16:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81159 @ 0.00070855 = 57.5052 BTC [-] {2}	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	well look, you agree with the broad idea that no man made thing may endure without a place the buck stops ?	[16:44]
asciilifeform	aha	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	wheresoever that place is, whosoever sits in it, has the same twin problem no matter what.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	ag3nt_zer0 see "la terra trema". think that the film was made in the 1950s by using RANDOM LOCALS	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	then tell me.	[16:46]
asciilifeform	there was, i think, a third, more pressing problem: why ought the sultan rule, when he can invent bureaucracy and have amoebas rule in his stead, while he bangs 10,000 chicks/year and smokes opium	[16:46]
asciilifeform	they solved it with 'law'.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	not so.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	for one thing, no opium smoker bangs 30 women a day even for two days straight,	[16:47]
asciilifeform	consider, why is soviet law seen as a laughing stock ?	[16:47]
asciilifeform	i would say it is only because it did not have centuries of decorative patina on it.	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	because made by stupid people.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	so it was apparent, and remains apparent, for what it is.	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	why are ww2 soviet tanks a laughing stock ?	[16:47]
asciilifeform	ask the germans if they laughed.	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	ask stolje if he laughed at law.	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	they're both equally ridiculous things, for the same exact reason : made "as best we could" by the russians of the time, who were peasants not lawmakers or tank makers. they have all the qualities of chinese farm steel.	[16:49]
asciilifeform	(more complicated story, with tank. diesel motor was an unambiguous win, as all tank makers eventually came to know.)	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	on the practical side, they both WORKED, if one's tolerant with the concept. soviet law maintained order in a larger thing than the us, better than the us managed.	[16:50]
asciilifeform	except it was not, largely, 'law' which maintained order. 'law' was simply the religious incantation uttered by judge before a troublemaker was sent to meet his fate	[16:51]
asciilifeform	rather than an actual decision-making mechanism	[16:51]
asciilifeform	when this was no longer the case, the edifice began to fall apart.	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	and the tank was not, strictly speaking, a tank.	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	and whjen they gave up their random approach, they came up with the kv, an overengineered useless pos.	[16:52]
asciilifeform	^ famous 'second-system effect'! like 'multics.' for that matter, it is an atrocity that scholarly discussions of 'second-system' and 'multics' do not mention the kv !	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	because they're as ignorant as my dirty socks.	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	yes, they were on my feet. they have cells descuamated off me even.	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	whadda they know for it.	[16:53]
asciilifeform	'Прощай КВ братишка наш!!!'	[16:54]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjWziqlm-Lw << obligatory	[16:54]
assbot	Прощай КВ братишка наш!!! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcJRiU )	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	ahaha wtf is this retarded shit	[16:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57104 @ 0.00069548 = 39.7147 BTC [-]	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	aaaahahaha	[16:55]
asciilifeform	http://a-pesni.org/ww2/folk/gibeltankista.php << text	[16:56]
assbot	По полю танки грохотали... (Гибель танкиста и т. д.) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcK062 )	[16:56]
asciilifeform	one of those things that everybody knew the wordz to.	[16:56]
mircea_popescu	no i know teh song lol.	[16:56]
mircea_popescu	325 views ? "obligatory" ? is this like... made by your gf's younger brother or something ? howdja find it	[16:57]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV942i_zbzE << minus the tards, for anyone who needs it.	[16:57]
assbot	На поле танки грохотали (Na Pole Tanki Grohotali) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcK4CY )	[16:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: from first stab	[16:57]
mircea_popescu	see, these kids is the fundamental reason a) ru young women are well fucked (well means more than just a lot) and b) the chechens aren't isis.	[16:57]
*	mircea_popescu likes.	[16:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99133 @ 0.00069167 = 68.5673 BTC [-] {2}	[16:58]
mircea_popescu	does not even agree with "tards" to any degree. yes they sound like monkeys. this is not retarded for their age, healthy 17 yo boys sound like that.	[16:58]
asciilifeform	nah. tards 'cause the thing wasn't full of saltpetre and didn't light well!	[16:59]
asciilifeform	mine did	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	but tard means something very anglo-speciffic.	[16:59]
asciilifeform	perhaps.	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	it means this 27 yo man that is indistinguishable from an 11 yo girl.	[16:59]
asciilifeform	certain that the authors of the film were not this ?	[17:00]
mircea_popescu	i am persuaded.	[17:01]
asciilifeform	they have, after all, learned to manufacture those, back in ru.	[17:01]
asciilifeform	gotta copy ~all~ american innovations, ya know.	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	could be wrng, who knows.	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:02]
asciilifeform	but easiest ones get copied first!	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	this being the only "american innovation" ?	[17:02]
asciilifeform	nah, but a popular one for some reason.	[17:03]
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mircea_popescu	incidentally, even though modern pigments and computers and what have you, we're not being deluged in fine art, as "you'd expect" (if you were say orwell or some other dumb schmuck with the If a man cannot enjoy the return of spring, why should he be happy in a labour-saving Utopia? What will he do with the leisure that the machine will give him? I have always suspected that if our economic and political problems are e	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	ver really solved, life will become simpler instead of more complex, and that the sort of pleasure one gets from finding the first primrose will loom larger than the sort of pleasure one gets from eating an ice to the tune of a Wurlitzer." thing)	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	instead the stuff everywhere's remarkably gross.	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	why ? why, because the redditar of 1600 thought himself blessed to "waste his life away" being a "from X's circle" at the very best. whereas the redditard of 2000 thinks his life too valuable to invest in anything. he is now a thinking man, don't you know, an intellectual - everyone's an intellectual that has computers, suddenly - and a tiny little Kitschhochadel in his own right!	[17:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: orwell assumed that full-scale human beings were a naturally-occurring product that could be taken for granted.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	yes. because he was a socialist, which is to say an idiot, and expected socialism, which always is "externalise costs" to be able to do so forever.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	who the hell knew EVERYTHING had a cost!	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	what, you can't just print more money and the expectation to the contrary sinks early sopcialism ?	[17:21]
asciilifeform	where in orwell do we see 'print money' ?	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	no matter! we "learn from mistakes", ie, claim that "socialism wasn't actually tried" and try again. the same thing. this time, we're printing people.,	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	what, still doesn't work ? NO MATTER!!!1 for we "learn from mistakes"	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	the thief also learns from the dubious mistake of having been caught.	[17:22]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform we don't, he's advanced.	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	he's not stupid v1, he's stupid v3.	[17:22]
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mircea_popescu	down with the shackles of this evil british empire of the blips which nevertheless creates the sort of people i like, even if i'm not actuaslly good enough to do anything in support. let's build utopia.	[17:24]
asciilifeform	as far as i can tell, it was dead long before he learned to read and write	[17:24]
asciilifeform	what was he to do, cry over the corpse like his contemporaries? then we would not be reading!	[17:25]
mircea_popescu	i did not say orwell was ineffectuial. i said he was stupid.	[17:25]
mircea_popescu	yes the bridge is falling whether 5yo cheers it on or not.	[17:25]
asciilifeform	i still want to picture a 'smart orwell'	[17:25]
mircea_popescu	but the cheering 5yo is still dumbn	[17:25]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform : ;;google trilema napier	[17:26]
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asciilifeform	at one point, iirc, he quotes the mega-liturgical 'The rich man in his castle, / The poor man at his gate, / God made them, high or lowly, / And ordered their estate.' as an example of the kind of thing that killing christianity finally nailed, and he can't bring himself to miss it	[17:26]
asciilifeform	but i don't see that this necessarily qualifies him as a tard. how is one to love something which is incompatible with your own existence ?	[17:26]
mircea_popescu	a) never was this nailed, anymore than the sun rising is "nailed".	[17:26]
mircea_popescu	and the poor array of the marbles in his head's his problem.	[17:27]
mircea_popescu	"So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another."	[17:27]
mircea_popescu	that's smart orwell for you.	[17:27]
asciilifeform	can be extended to individual, as well.	[17:27]
mircea_popescu	so it can. except the individual has the valid excuse of the sexual imperative	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	but countries are unsexuate	[17:28]
asciilifeform	ergo the old thread re: why a sp4mz0r wants to 'make $ while sleep'	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	(which is why they're referred in the feminine)	[17:28]
asciilifeform	orwell, like - i suspect - a great many folks, carried out the algo where 'i want the kind of world in which i and others like me can sleep ad libitum and eat well' - and turned that into 'philosophy'	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	yes, the philosophy of a five year old.	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	which is why i say socialism is for stupid people and the mark of their stupidity.	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	every fucking year you get at least one of the imbecile "why should i have to take an exam".	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	every fucking year.	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	and each one thinks he invented it.	[17:31]
asciilifeform	the way i read him, he saw 'socialism' (in the sense of industry having a single mega-imperial owner) as a done deal, with the only question being whether the end result would have a gestapo flavour, british ponce buggery flavour, or some other	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	that part i wasnt even discussing, the "economic" side so to speak. yes, moist people are dumb and industry has no need of them, so from their perspertive industry's run by aliens. fine.	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	but i meant in the more homely sense.	[17:33]
asciilifeform	elaborate?	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and btw, thinking about it - i now realise visconti, the son of the duke visconti no less, actually is the one example of resistence through culture known. his terra trema was paid for by the communist party. and in it he delivers such a trashing to the pious frauds of the communists as has never before seen.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	the most important film in support of sanity is a story of poor but stupid sicilian fishermen paid for by fucking stalin.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	and i meant in the more homely sense, socialist-books and socialist-philosophy and what have you. not socialist-economy.	[17:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82850 @ 0.00071101 = 58.9072 BTC [+] {3}	[17:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what books and philosophy of his time ought he have reviewed instead ?	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	the germans. heidegger.	[17:38]
asciilifeform	evola? prolly smelled too much of gestapo, triggered anaphylactic allergic shock in mr o	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	kant.	[17:38]
asciilifeform	as a cultured man, he likely read'em. but i spoke specifically of 'his time'	[17:39]
asciilifeform	as in, his reviews	[17:39]
asciilifeform	the man was a newspaper columnist.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	bullshit, read.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	and heidegger is his own time.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	that is an excuse ?	[17:39]
asciilifeform	then likely allergic to germans ?	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	how about "allergic to work".	[17:39]
asciilifeform	and of course to work!	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html#part37	[17:40]
assbot	Fifty Orwell Essays ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDzJTv )	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	nbo dude, not OF COURSE TO WORK omfg,	[17:40]
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mircea_popescu	the "Worker's party" of stupid people and lazy people who figure hey, if worker's in the title above the door work does itself somehow	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	we'll just sing and dance.	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	everyone in this country got nothing but "trabajador" in his mouth, and no one's done an honest stitch of work since 1924	[17:41]
asciilifeform	idk, i saw a good number of cabbies, cooks, over there. not worked ?	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	those keep their mouth shut.	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	i meant of the orwell class.	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	two-and-sixpence intellectuals of "newspaper columnist:	[17:42]
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mircea_popescu	(for the younger log reader, "two-and-sixpence" is not random, but a century ago made half a crown. it is used in a sense similar to "too clever by half", because that's really what half a crown is. worse than either a whole crown or no crown at all. at least in the context of this discussion)	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform come to think of it - he has a deeply unwarranted sense of superiority over shaw. easily the most important thinker of the period in all the english speaking lands.	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	i suspect this is also based on not having read.	[17:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50559 @ 0.00068366 = 34.5652 BTC [-] {2}	[17:54]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, the main problem with that art ruling thing, getting back to it, is that revisionism in inflation is a bitch. specifically, that sale was in 2006, before the first bout of "quantitative easing". most art of all description sells today for 10x to 100x what it did two decades ago, simply because dollars today, and euros today, are scarcely worth 10 cents. (no, this does not mean nothing to the slaves that spend "	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	their" "dollars" to buy from mcdonalds and zara. money only means money in the hands of the people who can use it independently, and what someone with tens of millions to his name was in 1995, is what someone wit ha billion to his name today. i'd know.)	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	so in plain point of fact "the guy would have gotten more in the alternative world" bla bla bla.	[18:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99050 @ 0.0006842 = 67.77 BTC [+]	[18:11]
ben_vulpes	fluffypony: it's a joke, man.	[18:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well, yes. art is used precisely like bitcoin, but by the enemy.	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	not by the enemy, but by the kulaks behind enemy lines.	[18:14]
asciilifeform	by the architects of the sum total of extant misfortune.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	i am not convinced.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	why do you think so ?	[18:14]
asciilifeform	what, the rembrandt owners couldn't turn inflation off like a tap ?	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	could not, no.	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	what, stalin couldn't turn off stupid like a tap ?	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	hitler could have took a stand in 1940 against antisemitism!	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	only i have the privilege to stand up here and say something of the kind. because i'm part of a fucking republic.	[18:15]
asciilifeform	who cancelled gold standard? omnipotent martians?	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	these people don't have a forum.	[18:16]
asciilifeform	or earth elite	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	gold standard was cancelled by the mass of idiots.	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	who went by the "why should something be a standard if what it says is, we don't get any and stfu"	[18:16]
asciilifeform	since when can 'mass of idiots' make any permanent mark at all?	[18:16]
asciilifeform	somebody took'em off the leash.	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	exactly like they go "oh, why should i read trilema if trilema says i'm broken"	[18:16]
asciilifeform	these folks - own rembrandts.	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	they are punishing me, see, like they punished the gold standard. in their own heads.	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	haha, someone took them off the leash. ww2 took them off the leash./	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	and the napoleonic wars before that.	[18:17]
asciilifeform	if you ask moldy, it was cromwell	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	and the german uprisings during calvin before that. and so on.	[18:17]
asciilifeform	but no matter	[18:17]
phf	(was it in the logs, guy brings authentic X "passed through family", gets accused of stealing, because "you're poor, so can't possibly have X")	[18:18]
asciilifeform	at any rate, what, the rembrandt owners couldn't sell the crap off (to usg, even. it's buying), buy btc, and send to isis?	[18:19]
asciilifeform	what does their refusal to do so make'em ?	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	understand : we have the liberty to decide tomorrow that gavin was right. or that bitcoin is stupid. or that whatever else. all this because liberty AT ALL.	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	but there is no liberty outside.	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	so, no. kulaks behind enemy lines made no decisions.	[18:19]
asciilifeform	phf: yes, in the logs; a german fella	[18:19]
asciilifeform	phf: and it is absolutely routine	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	and they are responsible and shall hang for the decisions they didn't make.	[18:19]
asciilifeform	^ is what i was getting at.	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	phf "passed through family" in that context is always a miserable cop out.	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	somehow never is anyone in that family someone with a registered key.	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	magically.	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	so i do not credit it nearly as much as you two seem to.	[18:20]
asciilifeform	here is a 'fun experiment' - get caught somewhere in a 'civilized' country with a trunk full of gold bar	[18:20]
asciilifeform	or even humble benjies	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you understand what i mean by "in the wot" in that context ?	[18:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9747 @ 0.000722 = 7.0373 BTC [+]	[18:21]
asciilifeform	not certain that i do ?	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	suppose i have a work picasso himself signed with the title "stanislav's teapot shaped head"	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	and i explain that this comes to me "through family".	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	except this "through family" claim is documented through five different testations, and it so happens that my uncle was a picasso expert who wrote extensively of this picasso work his brother owned.	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	and so on.	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	my claim is good.	[18:22]
ag3nt_zer0	http://www.studiesincomparativereligion.com/Public/articles/A_Figure_of_Speech_or_a_Figure_of_Thought_Part_1-by_Ananda_Coomaraswamy.aspx	[18:22]
assbot	"A Figure of Speech, or a Figure of Thought?" (Part 1) - an essay by Ananda K. Coomaraswamy ... ( http://bit.ly/1WLD58Y )	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	now suppose i "own" the same, "in the family", but my family is a bunch of poor peasants from honduras.	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	wut "in family" ?	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	let me show you "in the family".	[18:23]
ag3nt_zer0	Coomaraswamy is fascinating "art historian"	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23349744 << that's in the family.	[18:23]
assbot	Stolen Picasso and Monet art 'burned' in Romanian oven - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1WLD9FR )	[18:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: sorta what i said in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2015#1005374	[18:23]
assbot	Logged on 03-02-2015 22:35:01; asciilifeform: 'mr x, you're a registered pauper, but is that a first class air ticket you're holding? where'dyagetthat'	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	well of course ?!	[18:23]
asciilifeform	to which you answered 'and then i say i found it on the street.'	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	what worth is an undocumented claim ?	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	we reject these here on a daily basis!	[18:24]
asciilifeform	to the inquisitor - naturally nothing	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-08-2015#1246288	[18:24]
assbot	Logged on 20-08-2015 23:05:51; ahmed_bodi: Occasional trader. remember trading with a few people here. lost my PGP? key so i cant auth with assbot myself anymore	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	what is that claim to you ?	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	guy's obviously a scammer fishing for soft support, decimation style.	[18:24]
asciilifeform	except that the two situations are dissimilar	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	how ?	[18:24]
asciilifeform	pgp is a hard litmus	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	so is this.	[18:24]
asciilifeform	the picasso authentication folks purport to be authenticating the canvas,	[18:25]
asciilifeform	but really are testing blueness of blood.	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	here's the litmus : "what part of this alleged family HAPPENED IN THE FORUM ?"	[18:25]
asciilifeform	not saying that somehow there ~ought~ to be a way for the peasant to cash his picasso in	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	so then what are you saying ?	[18:25]
asciilifeform	but that the claim that the picasso is the object being tested is a crock of shit	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	there isn't a way for peasant to OWN picasso	[18:25]
asciilifeform	it is the man who is tested.	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	not anymore than there's a way for him to own plutonium.	[18:26]
asciilifeform	and it usually doesn't take long.	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	ownership is not an objective thing.,	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	ownership is a convention	[18:26]
asciilifeform	^	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	it is wrong to say "the man is tested	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	the WOT is tested.	[18:26]
asciilifeform	aha.	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	no relations, NO RELATION!	[18:26]
asciilifeform	i don't think we actually disagree here.	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	so then what do you protest ?!	[18:26]
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asciilifeform	the pretence of the scumbag 'authenticity' judges	[18:26]
asciilifeform	and auctioneers.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	"i owned it since forever" "who ever saw it ?" "only mute people"	[18:27]
asciilifeform	with their idiot rituals	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	i do not see it.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	if you claim that "hilary clinton is my wife" on the grounds of "she was always in my family" should your claim stand ?	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	against the nonsensical vacuum of anyone ever having seen this ?	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	no wedding pictures?	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	you never went anywhere as a couple ?	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	she did, with others ?	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	wtf.	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	yes, people will consider you're abject, after this claim. but the claim was disposed not on the grounds of who you are, but on the grounds of what proof was had.	[18:28]
asciilifeform	my other, separate statement was 'godspeed to anyone successfully faking and debasing their inflationhedgemachines'	[18:31]
asciilifeform	separate item.	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	well sure.	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	you'll notice however that the debasement is very well controlled in the same manner fed controlls the dollar.	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	they keep pumping more kids in as they need to keep the denominations low enough.	[18:32]
assbot	Bitcoin and the poor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1WLE6hf )	[18:32]
*	mircea_popescu knows random romanian kid that sold for ~1.5mn last year	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	because why not	[18:33]
asciilifeform	hanbot: what i meant was, tested for 'blue blood' and not anything else. certainly not intelligence, or culture.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	...	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	the test still is "who among you has a wot account"!	[18:34]
asciilifeform	aha.	[18:34]
hanbot	which condenses to "who among you has/d the intelligence to get in the wot", neh?	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	http://www.jeg.ro/part-2-looking-at-the-art-world-over-adrian-ghenie-s-shoulder-and-why-i-hate-it-or-love-it-not-sure/ < kid in question	[18:34]
asciilifeform	hanbot: are you in their wot ?	[18:34]
assbot	Part 2: Looking at the art world over Adrian Ghenie’s shoulder and why I hate it or love it. Not sure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1WLEk84 )	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it's fucking trivial to get in said wot.	[18:35]
asciilifeform	rly	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	yes rly.	[18:35]
asciilifeform	describe?	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	a) go to classical/art college ; b) go to auction house intern position ; c) write for whoever will publish about art and do a good job.	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	won't take 10 years, at how condensed timeframes are now. used to be 35-50.	[18:36]
asciilifeform	i'm not sure how an algo that requires me to get reborn as another person can be described as 'trivial'.	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	yes, well, what's your algo to become cussack ?	[18:36]
asciilifeform	'how to fly? 1) be a bird'	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	THAT is a wot you're not getting in.	[18:36]
phf	"You? Impossible! A mason?" "A mason," I replied. "A sign," he said, "a sign." "It is this," I answered, producing from beneath the folds of my roquelaire a trowel.	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	but your argument is flawed, which i know personally, and ill tell you why	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	one of my dearest teachers in college, at the time a respected doctor, retired	[18:36]
mircea_popescu	and started a career in art, specifically painting scholarship	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	and he is now a foremost authority in his field.	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	i have with mine two eyes seen this, and so...	[18:37]
asciilifeform	and he turned up with an undiscovered picasso and it sold for 40m ?	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	no, for his field was not cubism	[18:37]
asciilifeform	$picasso	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	(his field was 1800s ro painting, which incidentally is pretty rich.)	[18:38]
asciilifeform	and sold ?	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	yes sold. he re-evalued numerous items.	[18:38]
asciilifeform	neato.	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	in the upper 100s at the very least.	[18:38]
asciilifeform	so from the wot pov, it is not an atrocity that if usg enforcers find me with a metric tonne of benjie bills in bags, they will take'em ?	[18:39]
asciilifeform	if the story of why i have them isn't plausible enough	[18:39]
asciilifeform	'in the family' 'stow it'	[18:39]
mircea_popescu	well, it is an atrocity, because bills were itnended to be carrier notes.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	but they re-defined them, apparently, to be a sort of cheques.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	the part where they seem to also have forgotten to tell anyone is also atrrocious	[18:40]
asciilifeform	and the vermeer was intended as a wall decoration ?	[18:40]
asciilifeform	and also redefined	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	but in principle a parliament is not required to allow carrier notes in its realm.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	i don't see how your simile works.	[18:41]
asciilifeform	in both cases there is a kind of sham going on	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	hardly.	[18:41]
asciilifeform	one where the lie is publicly told that 'if you have a picasso, it is yours, and you're worth 40m'	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	no such thing was told.	[18:42]
asciilifeform	rather than the reality, where it is really a trapping of power, like king's scepter	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	i don't know that ever in the history of civilisation was fine art a bearer document.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	now, this was true of money, or more specifically, of currency	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	in fact that's what the word even means.	[18:42]
asciilifeform	it is a regular occurrence in usa that some schmuck find $canvas at an estate sale, then cleans it, it gets taken off his hands for a few hundy, and then a blueblood naturally converts it to 40m by getting it WoTed.	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	nobody forces him to go through the "taken off" step.	[18:43]
asciilifeform	now this is true!	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	it used to be a regular occurence in the usa that some cowboy owned some land, got it taken off his hands, buyer became oil baron	[18:43]
asciilifeform	and i'll have it be known that if i ever come across one, i will burn it. on high-def camera.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	but one is not required to sell, be your own oil baron.	[18:44]
asciilifeform	not quite best analogy - theoretically a plebe may drill for oil (if the local rulers permit it)	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	anyway, this expectation that some sort of nativism trumps wot is not unlike that swanson's fellow's expectation to tell me "how debates are done".	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	what is this, kauai ?	[18:45]
asciilifeform	naturally their wot is at work	[18:46]
asciilifeform	but it is a wot of vampires of mankind.	[18:46]
asciilifeform	(who said they couldn't have a wot?)	[18:46]
asciilifeform	and they do indeed peddle false inclusivity at every turn.	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	of vampires of wut!?	[18:47]
asciilifeform	of everybody-who-isnt-rothchild ?	[18:47]
asciilifeform	approximately.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	can you say something more substantial of this than plain if third hand echos of 1970s soviet postcards ?	[18:48]
asciilifeform	possibly.	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	so. b-a is the irc channel where vampires of mankind gather, to discuss how to lower into pederasty the teenaged daughters of hard working social media wokers.	[18:49]
asciilifeform	nah, the socialmedia folks are enforcers of the actual vampires.	[18:50]
asciilifeform	i still don't see how they could have come to exist in any other way	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	...	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	this sounds like special pleading and nothing more.	[18:52]
asciilifeform	let's try example? the american universities who pioneered socialist claptrap. did they get cut off from endowments by american industrialists for doing so? 1900s	[18:53]
asciilifeform	iirc none did.	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[18:54]
asciilifeform	so 'social media' is a a handcrafted monster of very real elites, rather than a plague of locusts that came out of nowhere	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	...	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	dja know what special pleading means ?	[18:55]
asciilifeform	apparently not ?	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	special pleading is a category of pleading, which is a category of speech, which happens in the forum, where the speaker proposes that one member of a category be different from the others on no grounds.	[18:56]
asciilifeform	but proposed a hypothesis about whole class here	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	you don't get to pick the class.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	the class at issue is the class which includes that "they" and that other "they" and also "us".	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	so you say "they came as locusts" ? so did we. ask the power rangers.	[18:57]
asciilifeform	if mircea_popescu's intel tells him that the power rangers see us as locust plague, i'll believe him; but from my chair i cannot see this.	[18:58]
asciilifeform	afaik they don't see us at all.	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	sure, and exact same could be argued (and has been argued, by people arguing from your same chari) about trhe evil capitalists which "do not even see the common people they vampirize"	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	herp.	[18:58]
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*	asciilifeform doesn't object to elites per se (sorta like objecting to gravity) or to hereditary wealth (also rather like objecting to gravity) but arguing for the degeneracy of a particular set of people	[19:01]
asciilifeform	like hapsburgs. do we miss'em ?	[19:01]
asciilifeform	do we miss romanovs ?	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	you did not phrase it in those terms.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	i don't think there's any	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	debate that teh peoples involved have little juice left in the ballsac.	[19:02]
asciilifeform	idk, i thought 'godspeed to fakers of vermeers' and 'good bilderberg is a dead bilderberg' was pretty clear..?	[19:02]
asciilifeform	and also idk, for an empty ballsack it's jizzing pretty well	[19:03]
asciilifeform	but i don't have mircea_popescu's intel. only My Arse (tm)	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	lol	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	well the entire contention was the strange notion that peasant who "finds" vermeer and "has always had it in family" should get to keep it.	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	perhaps by this notion same peasant who finds young dutchess and "always had her in family" should ALSO keep her	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	which is quite contradictory with all the soaps the peasant women watch, which all reduce to	[19:06]
asciilifeform	the explanation involving cheques/promissory notes was pretty neat	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	"pretty miss dutchess found by peasants - they didn't get to keep her"	[19:06]
asciilifeform	it makes the subject click in my head.	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	aok	[19:06]
asciilifeform	sorta like if a pauper finds a ring of keys - he doesn't get to own the house and car.	[19:06]
asciilifeform	(and this happens to be one of the reasons why many folks barf at bitcoin...)	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	technically money, in its circulatory form (ie, currency - to distinguish from the money as unit of account, for instance) was coins and bank-notes. coins are now disused, for entirely practical reasons ; and bank-notes come in those two flavours. moving from one to the other isn't THAT big a leap.	[19:07]
asciilifeform	aha. i think every kid in usa knows of the $1000 bill, for instance.	[19:08]
asciilifeform	(and perhaps even saw it in a museum)	[19:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.00070964 = 42.0817 BTC [-]	[19:08]
asciilifeform	but don't be caught with one on the street, yes.	[19:08]
asciilifeform	though now i'm hard-pressed to see how fdr's confiscation of gold is illegitimate under the framework outlined in this thread	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	for the record, it's not even clear moving from bearer to certified insturment is anti-liberty. for insmtance - hansa used the certifierd instrument greatly, because as a merchant, giving your son a plain "pay the bearer so much silver upon presentation of this note in such town" was merely an invitation to any highwayman on route to "please fuck this young man in the ass and here's the pay for your trouble"	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it did prevail in the justice of the time, did it not.	[19:10]
asciilifeform	so did the wickard v filburn	[19:10]
asciilifeform	which was really just 'fdr gets to do whatever the fuck he wants'	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	how do you propose to run a country ?	[19:10]
asciilifeform	fortunately it is not in my job description! but no shortage of historic examples to choose from..	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	and misunderstand.	[19:11]
asciilifeform	inescapably.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	"how do you propose to make diff work ?" "above my pay grade chief, but here's a website with code snippets"	[19:11]
asciilifeform	but i don't recall qin zhihuangdi, or peter I, or alexander, prohibiting gold	[19:12]
*	ben_vulpes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	orly.	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	i recall the roman REPUBLIC prohibiting gold	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	so much so they all had to bury it.	[19:12]
asciilifeform	unlike orwell, i don't see totalitarian prison state as automagically flowing from modern tech	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	nothing flows fropm tech except for more tech	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	that's the thing. technology is intellectually sterile.	[19:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes. didn't say 'no one did this', just 'no shortage of sane examples'	[19:12]
asciilifeform	of folks who did not.	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform your no shortage of "sane examples" refers to an abundance of "convenient retelliungs"	[19:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes, i know fdr and co.'s explanation of why they 'had to' confiscate	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	tell it to me.	[19:14]
asciilifeform	crash of '29; massive capital misallocations plus natural disasters and misharvests; hordes of paupers demanding to be fed gratis, or failing that, given makework; fdr & co debase currency, make it happen.	[19:15]
asciilifeform	(yes, moar complicated, and could - and has - fill a bookcase. but this is the 1line version in my head)	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/US-%24100000-GC-1934-Fr-2413.jpg	[19:16]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1LpuPFl )	[19:16]
asciilifeform	^ aha, them too	[19:16]
asciilifeform	iirc that was the biggest	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform do me a favour, read http://trilema.com/2011/de-pe-cind-eram-io-mai-tinar/ then we can continue this conversation	[19:17]
assbot	De pe cind eram io mai tinar on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpuVgl )	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	(can you actually read stuff like that or should i provide a summary instead ?)	[19:17]
*	asciilifeform reads..	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	!up antonosika	[19:25]
-assbot-	You voiced antonosika for 30 minutes.	[19:25]
*	assbot gives voice to antonosika	[19:25]
antonosika	thx.	[19:25]
antonosika	!register 101F52A1B302AB64E82BC090E813577509B35230	[19:25]
assbot	Nick antonosika is already taken.	[19:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i think i get it..	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	"i am taking this from you because you're too stupid to have it". and they knew this is true, and SIGHED THEIR RELIEF.	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	that's what it is.	[19:26]
asciilifeform	aha.	[19:26]
asciilifeform	spiffy piece btw	[19:26]
asciilifeform	consider posting in other languages.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	what, reddit doesn't have enough to spaz over ?	[19:27]
antonosika	If I do not have access to my backup key, and have a new comp - what proof would work to claim the long party as antonosika?	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	you need your key.	[19:27]
asciilifeform	'I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question!' (tm) (r) (babbage)	[19:28]
antonosika	What if no one claims a future?	[19:28]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: can we wire this to !babbage or the like, l0l	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	eh what, moar spam ?	[19:28]
asciilifeform	nah just tired of retyping it.	[19:29]
asciilifeform	antonosika: what does it mean, 'if no one claims a future' ?	[19:29]
punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248382 << what was wrong there?	[19:30]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 16:18:02; asciilifeform: importantly, these need to be detached (own file) signatures. specifically ~not~ like this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000150.html	[19:30]
phf	"found nick, has been in generation for years"	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	lol	[19:30]
asciilifeform	punkman: a .sig file should consist wholly of the detached sig	[19:30]
punkman	asciilifeform: and it wasn't?	[19:30]
asciilifeform	punkman: i should not have to munge it.	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	phf do you actually speak russian to the women ?	[19:30]
asciilifeform	punkman: correct, there were extraneous bytes in the linked example.	[19:30]
asciilifeform	that it, outside of the ----BEGIN .... ----END...	[19:30]
mats	;;gpg info antonosika	[19:31]
gribble	User 'antonosika', with keyid 86AC5789F93ED2E7, fingerprint 71A1EC4E1B6C7DD853FD856C86AC5789F93ED2E7, and bitcoin address None, registered on Sat Aug 9 17:27:20 2014, last authed on Tue Aug 26 10:21:38 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=antonosika . Currently not authenticated.	[19:31]
punkman	asciilifeform: I don't see it	[19:31]
mats	no bitcoin address, think you're fucked, mate	[19:31]
antonosika	Thanks.	[19:31]
antonosika	I am antonosika fingerprint 71A1EC4E1B6C7DD853FD856C86AC5789F93ED2E7. I'll do anything to prove it. I'm looking forward to claim a future contract. But I do not have access to my secret key.	[19:32]
asciilifeform	punkman: actually you're right, i misread. assumed that the sig in the text is the sig in question	[19:32]
asciilifeform	punkman: but apparently jurov's turdatron accepts a standalong sig with no payload..	[19:32]
asciilifeform	this actually means that it is vulnerable to to shitflooding	[19:32]
punkman	was a feature I think	[19:32]
punkman	maybe because it already had the file	[19:33]
asciilifeform	unless it actually looks for a pre-existing payload and checks against it	[19:33]
asciilifeform	i do not know whether he does this.	[19:33]
asciilifeform	;;later tell jurov what does your turdatron script do with attached sigs for which the message has no corresponding payload? looks through existing payloads ?	[19:33]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[19:33]
punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248359 << I don't like this	[19:35]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 15:59:15; asciilifeform: creating the antipatch is likely to require some manual manipulation.	[19:35]
asciilifeform	punkman: i did not say that i liked it.	[19:36]
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asciilifeform	punkman: you are invited to suggest a plausible alternative.	[19:36]
mats	antonosika: this is related to X.EUR yes? see section 2.3b	[19:36]
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asciilifeform	punkman: but if your alternative involves my signing of machine-generated code chimera, then ~i~ will not like it.	[19:36]
*	assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes	[19:37]
asciilifeform	anyone who wants to use 'git' or some other tardation knows where to find it.	[19:37]
antonosika	mats	[19:37]
mats	you can talk to davout, but i doubt he will deliver to someone that cannot prove control of that fingerprint	[19:37]
asciilifeform	antonosika: in what way are you presently distinguishable from an impostor ?	[19:38]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i've gotten the diff of your and my genesis down to the timestamps	[19:38]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: we zapped the timestamps	[19:38]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: were you awake for that one ?	[19:38]
ben_vulpes	yessir, but i don't think i implemented it correctly in my vdiff	[19:38]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: see earlier thread today with mod6	[19:38]
antonosika	hypothetically, as long as there is only one suggestion for what account to make a payment to and the contract finiliz	[19:38]
asciilifeform	or trinque rather	[19:39]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: didja post a genesis.vpatch without timestamps?	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	i'd seriously consider ending davout's contract if he pays without signature.	[19:39]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248311 << lol	[19:39]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 15:41:10; trinque: asciilifeform: I've produced a genesis.vpatch with your instructions which is only different from yours in terms of timestamps. expected result?	[19:39]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248312 << read from here	[19:39]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 15:41:34; trinque: I recall discussion of removing the timestamps, but didn't find a conclusion there	[19:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if he paid out to a random keyless amoeba, that'd be reason to conclude that he was shot and replaced not even by hitler's agent but by a street dog	[19:40]
antonosika	asciilifeform: hypothetically - as long as there is only one suggestion, from an impostor or not, for what account to make a payment to AND the contract finalises, wouldn't a future delivery contract state that a payment should take place?	[19:40]
asciilifeform	antonosika: instead of making this argument, go claim the megatonne of gold sitting in zurich since ww2	[19:41]
mats	how does that make sense? you may merely be the first to make the claim, and the genuine article did not yet get around to taking delivery	[19:41]
asciilifeform	antonosika: after all, 'payment should take place' and 'only one suggestion', yours	[19:41]
asciilifeform	go grab the zurich gold, why pester the x.eur folks	[19:41]
asciilifeform	antonosika: you have equally valid claim here and in zurich...	[19:42]
ben_vulpes	huzzah!	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	antonosika no, that's not what it says. the contract creates no nude obligation to pay, which may be satisfied, and then a separate and ulterior consideration as to whom.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	it starts with the whom.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	abstent the whom, there is no obligation.	[19:44]
punkman	antonosika: did you buy X.EUR on coinbr?	[19:44]
antonosika	mircea_popescu: I hope you take a good ulterior consideration until then.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	i do what ?	[19:44]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: before you start recreating and signing 'orchestra' patches as well, also see the thread with mod6 where i explain that the paths need adjusting	[19:44]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: (they gotta be homogeneous, as in following the same dir pattern as in 'genesis', to avoid unnecessary complexity in my proggy)	[19:45]
mats	[2014-08-12 03:34:05] → antonosika joined (uid31762@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dhamorrkxglbonxi)	[19:45]
antonosika	take the action that you deem plausible	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	...	[19:45]
mats	poor guy does look like he may be the real thing. but, no private key, no futures :/	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	plausible can not be applied to action.	[19:45]
asciilifeform	mats: cold equations!	[19:45]
mats	an expensive lesson...	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	well, it's denominated in one euro increments, and i don't think he ever had outstanding enough to payu for even one year of college	[19:46]
asciilifeform	antonosika: http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered << a less-expensive and altogether more diverting lesson	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	so no, a very cheap lesson	[19:46]
assbot	Shall be Delivered \| The Whet ... ( http://bit.ly/1NtdDC1 )	[19:46]
antonosika	Thanks for the sympathy mats	[19:50]
antonosika	Still, there is plausibility, and https://twitter.com/antonosika	[19:50]
assbot	Anton Osika (@antonosika) \| Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1NMPW4E )	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	nice pic	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	but you misspelled repetitive.	[19:51]
antonosika	<3	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	and what exactly do you suppose this proves ?	[19:51]
antonosika	fixed.	[19:52]
mats	utilitarian is also misspelled	[19:53]
antonosika	That the contract aims at the antonosika that you are talking to.	[19:53]
punkman	antonosika: was the lost key also registered at mpex?	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	lmao twitter now sucks uisers phone number as a "security" thijg too ?	[19:53]
mats	heh	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i can't be arsed to, but it takes anyone five minutes to create a twitter accouint, link it to a dead website and say "dear mircea popoescu" on it	[19:54]
antonosika	for arguments sake, it says when it's registered.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	a) twitter is a piece of shit web 2.0 item. they are probably hacked by 4 different teams as we speak and they don't even known	[19:55]
*	assbot removes voice from antonosika	[19:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30003 @ 0.0007021 = 21.0651 BTC [-]	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	b) you farm these and let them age, what's the big deal. 99% of all social media accounts are registered for the purpose of aging and then be used in a scam exactly like is contemplated here.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	be it scamming google or anything else.	[19:56]
*	lobbesbot (~limnoria@ec2-54-152-61-236.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:59]
ag3nt_zer0	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wYRGdD-xyo	[20:08]
assbot	Beck - Beck Reimagines David Bowie's "Sound and Vision" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NMRcop )	[20:08]
ag3nt_zer0	good for the soul	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248302 << they metaretaliated.	[20:10]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 14:31:53; fluffypony: so 6 hours till North Korea says they'll retaliate	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248343 << we still want the graph thing opf this btw.	[20:11]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 15:51:32; asciilifeform: this makes it possible to mechanically trace a 'patchchain'	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248349 << exactly the idea.	[20:11]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 15:53:24; asciilifeform: 'v' will recursively walk the hashes in the release and apply the necessary vpatches to produce the tree.	[20:11]
*	twistedline_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248374 << from my own pov it is very convenient, because it reduces to "sign the genesis and sign the meristems you are happy with in deployment"	[20:24]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 16:05:39; asciilifeform: it is important that everyone who works on therealbitcoin sign 'genesis' and distribute said signature.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	which is exactly a) what should be favoured (make it easy for the DEPLOYERS to sign, let the writers have to do all the hard work) and b) maximally economical.	[20:24]
asciilifeform	aha.	[20:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the graph thing is quite essential (and if no one else does it, i will) because it exposes the actual dependency flow	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	maybe mike'd consider making it a subthing of his excellent wot graph	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	because really - they much belong together, and i expect synergy to be productive	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	(really, V chiefly exists because we put other thibngs together a while back, and we didn't at the time know yet this is how it'll come out.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	and this exact scenario has played out a dozen or more times in the history of b-a	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	starting with its very birth)	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell mike_c hey, would you make the v graph alongside the wot graph ?	[20:27]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[20:27]
punkman	no synergy plz, v will likely be used for other projects, without b-a wot, etc	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	other projects can go get fucked.	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	b-a is not a fucking gift "to humanity" as that "humanity" chooses to understand itself. b-a is a gift to humanity as defined by b-a.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	humanity as it chooses to understand itself is the chief enemy, actually, and also the author of shit like the gnu diff. and everything else.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	if it burns to the ground tomorrow it's about fifty million years too late.	[20:33]
punkman	sure, but why can't punkman use v for non-b-a project?	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	sure he can. go ahead.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	but in being non-ba project, it misses out on all those things a ba project gets.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	just like you can go make yourself a house on the prarie. it won't have running water. and all the whitegoods will work poorly fed from canister.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	especially the dishwasher.	[20:34]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	because the whitegoods are fucking made for a house with running water by people who have running water and intend to continue having it.	[20:35]
*	[\] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[20:37]
*	zfx (~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx) has left #bitcoin-assets	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	"There remains after today no alternative manner to deploy Bitcoin software, or indeed any software that is not a toy intended to be used by children playing, outside of this paradigm. May the switchover be bloody and painful in all the right places." is not some sort of a joke, and in no case can it be waved aside.	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	it is a central tenant of computer science, henceforth.	[20:40]
asciilifeform	tenet ?	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	right./	[20:40]
*	asciilifeform out to meatspace for a spell	[20:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00070509 = 28.0626 BTC [+]	[20:45]
ben_vulpes	i'm rather enamored of how bitcoin defines computers now.	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	tell me about it	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	and i didn't even understand computers before.	[20:45]
ben_vulpes	i still don't.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	no i mean i didn't really have a very good idea	[20:46]
ben_vulpes	it's a good and simple definition. "it must build bitcoin with V, it must sync a full chain verifying each block, and it must keep up with the main chain."	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	"that machine which, unassisted, ~" yeah	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	first time the equivalent of turing's definition was constructed in practice.	[20:48]
ben_vulpes	by the by, does anyone know the zfx individual?	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	no idea.	[20:48]
ben_vulpes	pm'd me on the topic of --parents vs. -p and os x	[20:49]
ben_vulpes	which, more idle experiment than an attempt to build a bitcoin on a macos box	[20:49]
ben_vulpes	^^ asciilifeform	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	could have just voiced the guy	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248413 << ayup.	[20:50]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 18:04:17; asciilifeform: is winblows next ?	[20:50]
phf	ben_vulpes: -p doesn't seem to do the same thing on os x as --parents does in gnu cp	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	"for fucks sake, is it necessary to invade every last god forsaken swamp ? is burma next ???"	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	ayup.	[20:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45571 @ 0.00070509 = 32.1317 BTC [+]	[20:51]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i was not reading messages at the time	[20:51]
mod6	oh this is pretty neat. so I got the mechanics tested & rebased for rel1 -- off of classic patches & genesis.vpatch to be sure. created a "rel1.vpatch" from that. then tested it, worked good on top of extracted genesis.vpatch. then did one of these numbers "cat genesis.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; cat rel1.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; patch -p1 < rel1-fromair.vpatch"	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	win.	[20:52]
mod6	it's a one shot, straight to rel1 source.	[20:52]
mod6	now just gotta do it for rel2-pre and clean it up a bit and i think i'll have something for you guys to look at.	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	having fun shane ?	[20:53]
mod6	Yes, Sir :]	[20:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95700 @ 0.00071163 = 68.103 BTC [+] {4}	[20:54]
ben_vulpes	new theory: mpex price correlates with stans work on foundation client	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	why not s.nsa for chrissakes	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248467 << i'd like more explanation of how the fuck this could occur.	[20:58]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 18:26:16; asciilifeform: my present understanding is that the only solution to this is that i intend to negrate anyone who EVER does this.	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	for instance : collision only ?	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	should we need a salt, in the shape of a #sigline for all authors ? something like	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	#Made by MP, the 59675th item so made.	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	?	[20:59]
*	Rozal_ is now known as Rozal	[21:00]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248485 << well no it's not, since no time we what, rate both ?	[21:01]
assbot	Logged on 22-08-2015 18:32:55; asciilifeform: but it is a handy means of mechanically computing whom to negrate.	[21:01]
punkman	http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-bernini-criminal-complaint-slovakia-20150803-story.html	[21:05]
assbot	Bernini bust at Getty Museum prompts criminal complaint in Slovakia - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1V1aGd8 )	[21:05]
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lobbes	!up lobbesbot	[21:08]
*	assbot gives voice to lobbesbot	[21:08]
lobbesbot	!up	[21:08]
lobbes	!down lobbesbot	[21:08]
*	assbot removes voice from lobbesbot	[21:08]
punkman	found the art links through this rabbit hole http://www.anonymousswisscollector.com/	[21:09]
assbot	Anonymous Swiss Collector ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kd0hIf )	[21:09]
*	sueastside (~sueastsid@ip-81-11-222-155.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00072326 = 20.6129 BTC [+] {3}	[21:15]
punkman	"What every digital goldbug should be thinking right now: if this can happen with block size, it can happen to the 21m supply cap."	[21:26]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque	[21:30]
trinque	whether it can happen is by no means decided yet.	[21:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45450 @ 0.00071406 = 32.454 BTC [-] {3}	[21:31]
trinque	or if it did on some forkchain, who cares? that one will inflate	[21:31]
punkman	there will be derps herping about 21m cap.	[21:31]
trinque	there surely will	[21:32]
trinque	jurov: I still cant change settings for myself in mailman	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	"this" "can" "happen". except lol mkay.	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	punkman yes of course. just as soon as there's observable value everywhere a horde of shitheads with spoons are moving towards it.	[21:34]
punkman	Szabo: "A retail payment system that makes the consumer worry about two prices instead of one is far inferior to system where merchant pays tx fee."	[21:34]
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mircea_popescu	a retail payment system that isn't visa is going to be inferior to a retail payment system that is visa for the foreseeable future.	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	for very obvious reasons only a retard needs delineated.	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	or if it did on some forkchain, who cares? that one will inflate << and for a while it will be "just as good as bitcoin" except "better", like all other scamcoins to date. like ethereum, and next before it, and aurora coin before it, and solidcoin before it and so on.	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	ppl really need to to a diff between realsolid's claims in 2012 and gavin's claims in 2015	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	the lulz so produced should fill any lulztreasury.	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	what was the one with the contracts i forgety	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	oh ripple right	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	incidentally asciilifeform and whoever else is privately thinking of reimplementing pgp : one thing i'd dearly love would be the ability to encrypt not to X, but to "l1".	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	i'd seriously consider publishing trilema as such if a way for this existed.	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	sadly it doesn't seem matematically possible to have this miracle.	[21:45]
punkman	mircea_popescu: perfectly possible	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	do tell ?	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	via gossipd, is the closest i can see.	[21:47]
punkman	when multiple recipients, gpg makes a key, encrypts content with that key, the encrypt key separately for each recipient	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	multiple UNSPECIFIED recipients.	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	or as the case may be, specified by reference.	[21:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00070478 = 13.8137 BTC [-]	[21:49]
punkman	reference to what?	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	l1 in the example	[21:52]
punkman	and it has to keep working when you add or remove people from l1?	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	add.	[21:53]
punkman	I don't see how that'd be possible	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	gossipd the best i can think of.	[21:55]
punkman	yeah but that's not "encrypt to UNSPECIFIED set of keys"	[21:56]
ben_vulpes	dude autodesk fusion 360 does the DUMBEST POSSIBLE THING for EVERY constraint	[22:12]
*	hdbuck (~hdbuck@ATuileries-153-1-55-217.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:17]
*	hdbuck has quit (Changing host)	[22:17]
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ben_vulpes	does actually have a notion of part-level constraints but only "joints"	[22:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.000705 = 4.5825 BTC [+]	[22:18]
ben_vulpes	which i suppose are nominally the same but raaaaa	[22:18]
ben_vulpes	solve my system of equations goddamnit don't try to intuit what i mean	[22:18]
*	antonosika has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[22:20]
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*	ascii_modem has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.000705 = 4.512 BTC [+]	[22:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.000705 = 24.8865 BTC [+]	[22:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29748 @ 0.000705 = 20.9723 BTC [+]	[22:43]
*	nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:52]
*	nubbins` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:59]
*	King_Rex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:03]
*	hdbuck has quit (Quit: hdbuck)	[23:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00070478 = 3.8058 BTC [-]	[23:22]
*	NaroshiHarimata (c7c3c003@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.195.192.3) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:36]
*	NaroshiHarimata (c7c3c003@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.195.192.3) has left #bitcoin-assets	[23:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00070478 = 20.791 BTC [-]	[23:56]

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