Forum logs for 22 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform mod6: neat [00:01]
mod6 thanks for all your work on V, ascii [00:02]
asciilifeform 'spreading works, eating - not yet' [00:02]
mod6 and yah, signing on 16 bits (2 bytes) of hashs is retarded [00:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00065325 = 40.7628 BTC [-] [00:03]
asciilifeform mod6: see thread [00:03]
asciilifeform (modern gpg does not sign only the 16) [00:04]
mod6 yah, gotta re-read here. [00:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54492 @ 0.0006754 = 36.8039 BTC [+] [00:14]
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phf so to continue this archaeological dig, GPG 2.6 clarifies the usage of 2 octets. reads the header, reads the rsa ciphertext, decrypts rsa. rsa contains a digest of some fields from header and the body of message. so first thing he does next is check the first 2-octets of digest againts the 2-octets in header. if the two don't match program bails with "Error: RSA-decrypted block is corrupted. This may be caused either by corrupted data or by usin [00:59]
phf g the wrong RSA key." message format spec explains "First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we used the right RSA key to check the signature." [00:59]
phf for the curious, (src/crypto.c:1289) [01:00]
assbot ... ( ) [01:00]
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* mircea_popescu is tempted to deed a list of key,values of names of various people and start referring to people as "Primitive Man AFMrikO2o3Ka2pcpZ" instead of "Obama" or "Jean Jacques Rousseau" or whatever. [01:16]
mircea_popescu because it's where it's headed anyway, and why the fuck wait. [01:16]
asciilifeform l0l! [01:16]
asciilifeform straight from pelevin's 'orcs' [01:16]
mircea_popescu it is what it is. [01:17]
asciilifeform (were issued serial #s, tatooed on) [01:17]
asciilifeform orcs can grunt to one another whatever names they like, but only men get unique name [01:17]
asciilifeform orcs only need to be distinguishable from one another quickly & reliably. [01:17]
mircea_popescu name's a courtesy anyway. [01:18]
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* asciilifeform learned, perhaps to his grief, on account of phf (shame on you!) that 'ozon' now takes shitpal. now bought a container of fresh b00kz, aha. [01:41]
* asciilifeform will soon learn what, if anything, ru academiderpers did re: crypto in '90s, among other things. [01:42]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what i don't grasp is why you're feeling so generous - giving orcs unique names. [01:48]
asciilifeform what next, serialize the ants in the anthill ? [01:48]
asciilifeform let the rousseaus bite one another's ears off, fighting over who is rousseau. [01:49]
asciilifeform (also serial #s tend to work poorly unless reliably tattooed on.) [01:49]
asciilifeform see also the 'rating folks not in wot?' and 'branding a snake' thread [01:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41389 @ 0.00064734 = 26.7928 BTC [-] {5} [01:51]
mircea_popescu cuz i might want to be able to distinguish orwell from orlov [02:04]
mircea_popescu not that experience to date indicates this as likely. [02:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00064515 = 6.4515 BTC [-] [02:06]
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mircea_popescu "The reappearance of HELEN'S BABIES, in its day one of the most popular books in the world–within the British Empire alone it was pirated by twenty different publishing firms, the author receiving a total profit of £40 from a sale of some hundreds of thousands or millions of copies–will ring a bell in any literate person over thirty-five." [02:16]
mircea_popescu da fuck is this, never heard of it. [02:16]
mircea_popescu probably some inane brit-pulp a la dickens. [02:17]
mircea_popescu turns out it's from the us, an early attempt at mommy blogging. [02:23]
assbot Error 403 ... ( ) [02:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00065643 = 13.5225 BTC [+] [02:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00068335 = 13.3253 BTC [+] [02:31]
mircea_popescu you know, they speak casually of how the bitches they know're gonna introduce the new ones. except... all this is a work of feverish imagination. [02:35]
mircea_popescu bah. [02:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00068754 = 31.3518 BTC [+] {2} [02:42]
mircea_popescu an' in other news, [02:44]
assbot ... ( ) [02:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9846 @ 0.00066909 = 6.5879 BTC [-] [03:01]
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mircea_popescu << and, of course, credit given where credit is due. [03:05]
assbot [Guide] Surviving the fork, or How to double your bitcoins (or save fiat) ... ( ) [03:05]
punkman [03:15]
assbot Adopting iOS 9 network extension points · Issue #124 · shadowsocks/shadowsocks-iOS · GitHub ... ( ) [03:15]
mircea_popescu is that trolling ? [03:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00066816 = 28.9313 BTC [-] [03:20]
mircea_popescu imo related, [03:23]
assbot ... ( ) [03:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86108 @ 0.00064807 = 55.804 BTC [-] {3} [03:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27850 @ 0.00067939 = 18.921 BTC [+] {2} [03:45]
mircea_popescu "A totalitarian society which succeeded in perpetuating itself would probably set up a schizophrenic system of thought, in which the laws of common sense held good in everyday life and in certain exact sciences, but could be disregarded by the politician, the historian, and the sociologist." [03:51]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00065793 = 20.7906 BTC [-] [04:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41200 @ 0.00067953 = 27.9966 BTC [+] [04:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21013 @ 0.000658 = 13.8266 BTC [-] [05:00]
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punkman mircea_popescu: is that trolling ? << chinese problems [05:12]
punkman shadowsocks makes your tunnels look like traffic that's not blocked [05:12]
shinohai Don't be like Weird Satanist Guy [05:14]
assbot Weird Satanist Guy - YouTube ... ( ) [05:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82640 @ 0.00066914 = 55.2977 BTC [+] {2} [05:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52628 @ 0.00069123 = 36.3781 BTC [+] {2} [05:20]
punkman [05:21]
assbot Fisherman nets a spy device in S China Sea- ... ( ) [05:22]
shinohai I hope that somewhere in the AM data, it is revealed Josh Duggar snorted coke off of a tranny's cock. [05:25]
punkman lulz [05:26]
assbot Prepare for the Playa Police [Update] | Burners.Me: Me, Burners and The Man ... ( ) [05:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00069586 = 43.6304 BTC [+] {2} [05:40]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell schmidty fix your connection. [05:42]
gribble The operation succeeded. [05:42]
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punkman [05:49]
assbot U.S. soldier wounded helping to overpower gunman on train in France - SWI [05:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00070115 = 14.7242 BTC [+] [05:50]
mircea_popescu [05:51]
assbot Dont Talk to Police - YouTube ... ( ) [05:51]
punkman [05:57]
assbot Sprout Pharmaceuticals CEO Talks 'Female Viagra' Controversy, Additional Alcohol Studies, Addyi's U.S. Roll-Out And Global Ambitions ... ( ) [05:57]
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mircea_popescu sprout pharmaceuticals is a new altcoin or what. [06:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 66099 @ 0.00002287 = 1.5117 BTC [-] {11} [06:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00070064 = 15.379 BTC [-] {2} [06:29]
shinohai * I want a blockchain!* *Us too!* [06:31]
punkman heh [06:37]
assbot Scientists who found gluten sensitivity evidence have now shown it doesn't exist - ScienceAlert ... ( ) [06:37]
mircea_popescu doh. [06:40]
mircea_popescu all us tinfoil hats with our crazy notions about how shit that doesn't exist doesn't exist. [06:41]
mircea_popescu meanwhile how did that quote go, i really liked that thing, with social biddings and shit [06:41]
mircea_popescu [06:42]
assbot Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated. [06:42]
mircea_popescu [06:43]
assbot Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: The rest of us who actually make shit happen in the front lines of consensus back on planet earth will continue to be unaffected by your efforts apart from their modest value as chuckle fuel over beers and sushi." [06:43]
mircea_popescu very happen much front lines actual earth &c. [06:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00069891 = 13.9782 BTC [-] [06:44]
fluffypony [06:47]
assbot ... ( ) [06:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00069891 = 33.967 BTC [-] [06:47]
punkman [06:47]
assbot Ashley Madison Hackers Speak Out: 'Nobody Was Watching' | Motherboard ... ( ) [06:47]
punkman "1/3 of pictures are dick pictures and we won't dump." [06:48]
* mircea_popescu is not reading a vice regurgitation of anything. got the actual link ? [06:49]
punkman it's original [06:49]
mircea_popescu then their mother can read it & care. [06:50]
mircea_popescu if it's "original" to vice it's a lie by vice. [06:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15450 @ 0.00067398 = 10.413 BTC [-] [06:50]
punkman "Motherboard was given a contact email address for The Impact Team by an intermediary. After reaching out, the hackers replied with a message signed with the same PGP key posted with the Ashley Madison dumps. " << of course they couldn't provide the signed replies [06:51]
mircea_popescu either they stole someone's shit, in which case i want the original ; or else they made it up, in which case i dun want to hear it. [06:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00067023 = 23.7932 BTC [-] [06:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34574 @ 0.00070623 = 24.4172 BTC [+] {3} [06:59]
mircea_popescu but since we're doing lulz, check out what the dragnet drug up [07:01]
assbot ThePiachu comments on Because most people are idiots, in spite of never manning up and admitting to it ... ( ) [07:01]
shinohai ^ LOLZ [07:03]
cazalla anyone else read his name as thepikachu? [07:06]
mircea_popescu that's the subreddit mod neh ? [07:06]
cazalla i believe so [07:06]
cazalla next to theymos anyway [07:07]
shinohai yes he is mod of r/cryptocurrency too? [07:09]
shinohai phd or something important hur durr [07:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9149 @ 0.00067023 = 6.1319 BTC [-] [07:10]
mircea_popescu anyway, turns out trilema's linked from tons of various reddits in all sorts of topics, from recovering tlp old posts he apparently deleted to whatever random other thing. [07:14]
mircea_popescu it [07:14]
mircea_popescu s just they don't amount to much traffic wise, even when piled together, which is how i've never noticed before. [07:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56982 @ 0.00066857 = 38.0965 BTC [-] {2} [07:46]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [15:38]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [15:38]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [15:38]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [15:38]
mod6 ok, here is the diffs between your posted patches w/timestamps v. new ones w/o ts: && [15:38]
assbot ... ( ) [15:38]
assbot ... ( ) [15:38]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [15:38]
asciilifeform mod6: now try applying these in the known order. [15:39]
asciilifeform mod6: see, for example, if you can bitwise-reconstitute REL1. [15:39]
mod6 yeah. you know... was just looking at these closer. i think i screwed something up [15:40]
mod6 the hashes don't match. [15:40]
asciilifeform they have to match. [15:40]
mod6 i did something wrong here. [15:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform say, you keep sending me these carets, what are they supposed to do ? add to my collection ? [15:40]
mod6 lemme blow these away [15:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not sure what i was thinking there! [15:41]
asciilifeform add to a collection thereof, i suppose. [15:41]
mircea_popescu i got one from yest, too :) [15:41]
mircea_popescu mebbe they made a soup, who knows. ima ask teh girls. [15:41]
asciilifeform they go well with tea [15:41]
mircea_popescu irc, an ADVENTURE!~ [15:41]
asciilifeform i was about to say. [15:41]
mircea_popescu incidentally, why the fuck is ^ called a caret. a caret is supposed to go below the line. [15:42]
asciilifeform it is a CARROT [15:42]
asciilifeform not a caret. [15:42]
mircea_popescu oh i guess they were using it historicaly for the line above huh [15:42]
mircea_popescu that weird feeling when you wake up at 4pm, everyone's gone to do useful stuffs and you have a pile of explanatory notes, aggregated foodstuffs and so forth. [15:44]
mircea_popescu i feel like a very old man. [15:44]
mod6 ok i think i see what I did wrong here... just a minute. [15:44]
mircea_popescu << you know this is ~extremely~ common. maybe even half the fine art privately owned / displayed at any time is fake. [15:46]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 13:02:32; assbot: How a Chinese librarian made $6 million in forged art over two years | National Post ... ( ) [15:46]
asciilifeform not common enough! if there are still $40mil auctions for'em [15:46]
mircea_popescu that has nothin to do. [15:46]
asciilifeform let ten quintillion indistinguishable fakeassos bloom. [15:47]
mircea_popescu at the mental level where us adults are, $500 mn for soccer trading cards would not be amiss. [15:47]
asciilifeform only if they can be provenanced. [15:47]
mircea_popescu this is like "only if he can be voted into office" [15:47]
mircea_popescu he'll be voted, if that's what keeps millions from raining. [15:47]
asciilifeform nah, it doesn't work if someone can walk into a dark closet and emerge with two indistinguishable costly pet rocks. [15:47]
mircea_popescu orly. [15:47]
asciilifeform double-spend [15:47]
mircea_popescu this is like, "it doesn't work if i come back home and there's TWO almost dressed blondies waiting for me" [15:48]
mircea_popescu orly! [15:48]
asciilifeform if can doublespend, can run arse-mouth system hose, and now you're using 'blondies' as construction material and can't give'em away fast enough [15:48]
mircea_popescu ayup. [15:48]
asciilifeform before you know it, they're boat ballast [15:48]
mircea_popescu ~= africa. [15:48]
asciilifeform but, if understand correctly, there is an alternate hypothesis: the costly and elaborate 'authentification' is not to authenticate, but to annoint [15:50]
asciilifeform rockefeller's vermeer is genuine and fuckyou because he is rockefeller; the one mr schmuck found in his cellar - will be annointed fake (or no one will even bother) unless it suits a rockefeller to bless it. [15:51]
asciilifeform (so he can pick it up for $1000 and magick it into $40m) [15:52]
mircea_popescu what part of doublethink you think got cancelled ? the man with two maja desnudas simply is twice as happy. [15:53]
asciilifeform i am enthusiastically in favour of elaborate art fraudsters if they can ddos this process. [15:53]
mircea_popescu this would be true if there existed a usg agency of authenticity. [15:53]
asciilifeform not twice as happy if he can't buy 2x the turkeys [15:53]
mircea_popescu speaking of goya, ever seen un coup fumant ? [15:53]
asciilifeform can't say i have [15:53]
mircea_popescu ancient film with toto. know him ? [15:54]
asciilifeform nope [15:54]
mircea_popescu italian comic of the war period. [15:54]
mircea_popescu anyway, pretty much your idea : a wanna-be rockefeller (except fraudster-y) hires an eccentric copyer to make an intermediate maja [15:55]
mircea_popescu (goya has a dressed maja and a nude one, they were goin to make "la maja en chemise") [15:55]
asciilifeform pretty sure someone linked to a modern rerun of this concept, earlier. [15:56]
asciilifeform (and i bet there are 25 films like this) [15:56]
mircea_popescu quite exactly. [15:56]
mircea_popescu fine art is either fine for its fine-ness or then not even art at all. [15:56]
mircea_popescu much like a good performance of a march does not get anulled through having been "not the original" and nobody sticks around to compare the brass instruments used [15:57]
mircea_popescu ("oh this march is from 1722 and then they put antimony in the brass. this march was a fake!) [15:57]
asciilifeform surely [15:57]
asciilifeform except that we have a handful of wealthy and demented folk who turned the whole shebang into a kind of primitive altcoin [15:57]
mircea_popescu which is how 99% of these "fake fine art" arguments are settled - no eggyolk in the pigment or shit [15:58]
asciilifeform aha [15:58]
asciilifeform well-known, i thought. [15:58]
mircea_popescu as fucking if. [15:58]
asciilifeform (hence the linked article where chinese fella used vintage paper, ink) [15:58]
mircea_popescu also, the thing is, it's perfectly legal to order and own, and trade etc COPIES [15:58]
mircea_popescu not like the things are under copyright anymore. [15:58]
mircea_popescu the only illegal part is fraud, obviously. [15:58]
mircea_popescu so it's kinda a forgone conclusion, art authenticity. [15:58]
asciilifeform but the pretence is maintained so rockefeller's stash can be inflationproof. and folks who try to fuck with the pretence, often Have Problems. [15:59]
* mircea_popescu would not feel particularly better for owning the "actual" copy of a painting he likes rather than a very good one. actually i'd feel like a total fool. [15:59]
mircea_popescu besides, the modern copy can be fix. i much prefer my own rewrites of classical poems to the originals anwyay. [16:00]
mircea_popescu and the historical master's taste in women shows they never met any for crying out loud. [16:00]
asciilifeform this is because mircea_popescu is still thinking of these items as artwork, to look at [16:00]
mircea_popescu i don't remember any classical nude i like the face of. [16:00]
asciilifeform lizards just keep'em in bottles of argon [16:00]
mircea_popescu but anyway, this suggests a fine exercise for the esteemed lordship and beyond. not everything in this life is code, and a gentleman needs to study and know a loit more than rubies. so therefore : which classical nude do you like the face of ? [16:01]
mircea_popescu but i don't mean copacetically like. i mean like like one's supposed to like art : un coup fumant. if she came off the toille you'd have no choice but to drop everything and marry her. [16:02]
asciilifeform how about botticelli's venus ? [16:02]
mircea_popescu i dunno, what you like is what you like. to me she seems dumb. [16:03]
mircea_popescu much like maja has the face of a sly thirteen year old. [16:03]
asciilifeform but least so [16:03]
asciilifeform of all the ones i can recall. [16:03]
mircea_popescu i do not wish to consort with preteens ffs. [16:03]
* mircea_popescu looks again [16:03]
mircea_popescu mneah. i dun like it, not my kinda woman. [16:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'на вкус и на цвет товарища нет' (tm) (r) [16:04]
asciilifeform (how do you englisch that?) [16:04]
mircea_popescu anyway. people like alma-tadema, godward etc do women that look more like adults [16:05]
mircea_popescu "de gustibus" ? [16:06]
asciilifeform ^ approx. [16:06]
mircea_popescu color and taste aren't comrades ? [16:06]
asciilifeform no [16:06]
mircea_popescu it literally sayz, za taste and za color, comrades not. [16:07]
asciilifeform again no. [16:07]
mircea_popescu wut are teh words mean! [16:08]
asciilifeform for colour or taste, ain't no such thing as friend [16:08]
mircea_popescu ooo yeah [16:08]
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mircea_popescu >in< color and taste there aren't comrades [16:09]
asciilifeform aha. [16:09]
mircea_popescu anyway, upon consideration venus does have to some degree the sharp features of the ideal fox. at least moreso than all the piefaces everyone wants to paint for some reason [16:11]
mircea_popescu < wtf is that. [16:11]
assbot ... ( ) [16:11]
mircea_popescu great idea, great painting, why does the woman's face look like it was peeled off asphalt pizza [16:12]
asciilifeform ugh [16:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00070309 = 17.3663 BTC [-] [16:14]
mircea_popescu from punkman's article : [16:15]
mircea_popescu Authenticating a work of art is often difficult, and more difficult when the art is four or five hundred years old, and at least one tool for the expert, to wit, provenance, is often limited or non-existent. And, science (materials analysis) does not get us very far since many of the problems for Old Masters come right out of the artist's studio (think Rembrandt). Thus, for Old Masters at least, the expert is left to r [16:15]
mircea_popescu ely almost entirely on expert opinion concerning the quality of the art, that is to say, is the quality of the art being examined of the quality expected of a painting by the artist—in this case, Caravaggio. [16:15]
mircea_popescu And then, when the experts have come to their conclusion, and that conclusion is challenged in court, (as opposed to the marketplace or in critical writing), a judge must decide that the experts were right or wrong. [16:15]
asciilifeform 'in savour or hue, no comrades have you' [16:15]
asciilifeform ^ finally a working english. [16:15]
mircea_popescu rank fucking nonsense. it should be clearly obvious this is not something the court can do. [16:15]
mircea_popescu "oh, but we already do guilt and innocence, which are ALSO transcendents" [16:16]
mircea_popescu "yes, but you do those BY SPECIAL MANDATE!. [16:16]
mircea_popescu quo fucko warranto you do it for art, too! [16:16]
asciilifeform hence why i said 'they annoint under pretence of adjudicating' [16:16]
asciilifeform sop lizard service. [16:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i have nfi why you think 'in savour or hue, no comrades have you' better than "in color or taste there's no comrades" [16:17]
asciilifeform because it checksums. [16:17]
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mircea_popescu (it rhymes in russian because it's russian. a language from 1700! it needn't rhyme in english, unless we're going for faux-peasant wisdom) [16:18]
mircea_popescu !up referredbyqntra [16:18]
-assbot- You voiced referredbyqntra for 30 minutes. [16:18]
* assbot gives voice to referredbyqntra [16:18]
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mircea_popescu incidentally, isn't this also strictly wrong ? wasn't it the case that the whole village ate ~the exact same dish~ every day forever ? [16:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00072009 = 24.5551 BTC [+] {3} [16:19]
mircea_popescu in romania it was polenta + cheese + onion cut up. [16:19]
asciilifeform ate because it was 'on the menu' [16:19]
asciilifeform not because 'we all love' [16:19]
mircea_popescu but it did make comraderie. [16:19]
mircea_popescu they did say so! [16:19]
asciilifeform aha. so does prison. [16:19]
mircea_popescu so then. [16:19]
mircea_popescu but no, it is oft seen as an ideal. [16:19]
* asciilifeform notice, did not sign it as 'ideal' [16:20]
mircea_popescu "no, i dont think they were townpeople [ie idiots] because when sitting to repast they took out mamaliga cu brinza like normal pewople] [16:20]
mircea_popescu no i mean, the common, standard foodl. regarded as ideal by the village prisoners. [16:20]
asciilifeform !s american cheese [16:21]
assbot 13 results for 'american cheese' : [16:21]
asciilifeform ^ same effect, discussed in at least one old thread [16:21]
asciilifeform folks will go and look for the shitsoup they grew up with, yes. [16:21]
* mircea_popescu actually likes it, has it in argentina even. [16:21]
asciilifeform which? [16:21]
mircea_popescu perhaps the only time romania's ww1 peculiar dish was eaten here this millenium [16:21]
mircea_popescu mamaliga cu brinza. [16:21]
asciilifeform the porrige? nothing wrong with that [16:22]
mircea_popescu it's usually boiled into solid. something like [16:22]
assbot ... ( ) [16:22]
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* asciilifeform knows of this dish only from father, who travelled a good bit in ro [16:23]
asciilifeform (in the old days) [16:23]
mircea_popescu it's not really hard to make, need pot with water and coarse ground corn. and a woman that knows how long to boil it and what proportions. [16:23]
* asciilifeform only learned how to make proper 'манная каша' (english, approx, 'cream of wheat') as an adult; and is still tempted to try doing it in a chemist's double boiler with magnetic stir bar [16:24]
mircea_popescu casa's different [16:25]
asciilifeform but mentioned because it suffers from same problem [16:25]
asciilifeform has to be kept at low boil for entire time [16:25]
mircea_popescu more heavily, ithink [16:25]
mircea_popescu yeah [16:25]
asciilifeform and stirred or it bakes onto the pot [16:25]
mod6 asciilifeform: ok, got it figured: check here please: && [16:25]
assbot ... ( ) [16:25]
assbot ... ( ) [16:25]
asciilifeform hence it is absolutely begging for chemist's boiler and magnetic stirrer [16:25]
* assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0 [16:25]
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mircea_popescu ture. [16:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11168 @ 0.00072036 = 8.045 BTC [+] {2} [16:26]
asciilifeform mod6: these look superficially correct, but need to be 1) compared mechanically and 2) rebased as i spoke of earlier [16:26]
mod6 yup yup, i recall. just trying to make sure i'm on the right track so i don't waste everyones time :] [16:27]
asciilifeform mod6: very much on right track [16:27]
mod6 good deal. i'll see what I can do about the mechanical checking and rebasing maybe later tonight, or tomorrow for sure. [16:28]
asciilifeform mod6: neat [16:28]
ag3nt_zer0 << ever looked at this?: [16:29]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 13:05:58; punkman: "before he resigned from the library he realized that his trick had occurred to someone else. Several of the paintings he made had been replaced, his copies stolen. So the Academy was exhibiting fakes of fakes and someone was selling, or trying to sell, art by Xiao." [16:29]
assbot F for Fake (1974) - Rotten Tomatoes ... ( ) [16:29]
mircea_popescu For every auction sale, a catalogue is produced describing each painting to be sold. Every entry indicates the certainty with which Sotheby's is prepared to attribute it to a particular artist. The catalogue entry may describe a painting in the following ways: i) Simply putting the name of the artist, for example, ‘Giovanni Bellini,' means that, in Sotheby's opinion, the work is by Bellini. ii) Attributed to Giovanni [16:30]
mircea_popescu Bellini means that, in Sotheby's opinion, this is probably a work by Bellini, but there is less certainty expressed as to authorship than in the preceding category. iii) Studio of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, this is a work by an unknown hand in the studio of Bellini, and it may or may not have been executed under his direction. iv) Circle of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, it is a wor [16:30]
mircea_popescu k by an as yet unidentified but distinct hand, closely associated with Bellini but not necessarily his pupil. v) Style/Follower of Giovanni Bellini means that, in their opinion, this is a work by a painter working in Bellini's style, contemporary or nearly contemporary, but not necessarily his pupil. ‘Contemporary or nearly contemporary' means that it was painted within about 50 years of Bellini's work. vi) Manner of [16:30]
mircea_popescu Giovanni Bellini means that in their opinion, this is a work in the style of Bellini and of a later date. vii) After Giovanni Bellini means that in their opinion, this is a copy of a known work of Bellini. [16:30]
mircea_popescu check these people out, they have fine art authorship grading down to a fine art! [16:30]
asciilifeform i can't wait till they start doing circus like this for, e.g., a pgp signature [16:31]
mircea_popescu the merit of a pgp signature is that it delivers them from having to do this. [16:32]
asciilifeform like that czech short story, author i can't recall, where a 'graphologist' is made to pronounce re: the authenticity of a typewritten page! [16:32]
mircea_popescu do not think that the intelligent people caught like bubbles in the fiat mire are happy to be there. [16:32]
asciilifeform proceeding from a mandated assumption that it was written by human hand [16:32]
mircea_popescu this is commonly done! typewriters are handwriters. [16:32]
asciilifeform yes, but not done as graphology [16:32]
mircea_popescu nonono. there is such a thing as "identify typewriter" [16:32]
asciilifeform but as own legit procedure, invented later [16:33]
asciilifeform aha [16:33]
mircea_popescu well yeah [16:33]
asciilifeform this was prior. [16:33]
mircea_popescu a ok [16:33]
ag3nt_zer0 "The final directorial project the legendary Orson Welles completed during his lifetime, F for Fake is less a documentary than an example of cinematic free association on the topic of trickery. Much of the film is in fact drawn from other sources, most notably an unfinished documentary by Francois Reichenbach on the notorious Elmyr de Hory, whose extremely skillful forgeries of famous paintings caused scandals amongst art [16:33]
ag3nt_zer0 of irony, de Hory's interviewer is author Clifford Irving, who became infamous due to a forgery of his own: a falsified autobiography of Howard Hughes. Welles openly re-edits and manipulates this footage, using it as a spine for his own commentary, arguing that there is an extremely close relationship between art and lying, and citing instances from his own career to prove the point." [16:34]
asciilifeform << i still see ~actual authentication~ as being ~incidental~ to these proceedings. as in j.e.hoover's famous quip 'justice is incidental to law and order' [16:34]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 19:30:03; mircea_popescu: the merit of a pgp signature is that it delivers them from having to do this. [16:34]
asciilifeform they don't 'have to', but want to. the conclusion is pre-ordained. [16:34]
mircea_popescu i do not share this view. [16:35]
mircea_popescu ag3nt_zer0 i dun think much of welles as a director. [16:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57650 @ 0.0007213 = 41.5829 BTC [+] {4} [16:36]
ag3nt_zer0 ok, don't really have an opinion on him myself, but I thought that film was quite entertaining... like a cinematic hall of mirrors or something [16:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: consider, - ergo, 'this vermeer, in the gallery of our esteemed lord rothchild, is genuine. this picasso, in the suitcase of this ragged thief and scoundrel, is most certainly questionable.' [16:38]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:02; mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not. [16:38]
ag3nt_zer0 and Irving and Elmyr are quite the characters haha [16:38]
asciilifeform and the 'questionable' is 'surely genuine' when ragged man goes to jail and the canvas finds its way to lord rothchild. [16:38]
mircea_popescu you have a strange equivocation of power an' legitimacy going on there, asciilifeform [16:38]
asciilifeform hm? [16:38]
mircea_popescu justice covers two different things. [16:39]
mircea_popescu or how shall i put this, there are two types of question justice answers. [16:39]
ag3nt_zer0 mircea_popescu: who do you hold in high esteem as a director? [16:40]
mircea_popescu felini. [16:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: two? [16:40]
mircea_popescu but honestly, Visconti is probably the best dirctor that ever lived. [16:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes. vaguely speaking, one's a contest among the crowd of boys. "everyone wants to be the one at the wheel, so who shall ?" [16:42]
ag3nt_zer0 thanks I will look [16:42]
mircea_popescu the other's a more fundamental type of dispute, you could stilisize as "between man and god". [16:42]
asciilifeform i see the proceedings of that court as similar to those of all modern courts: a continuation of the basic lie of 'rule of law', where 'it is not the sultan who condemns you to impalement, but the majesty of the law' [16:43]
mircea_popescu roman practice suffered the tension, but also made it amply abundant [16:43]
asciilifeform a legitimacy-washing. [16:43]
mircea_popescu you do this because you don't recognise the fundamental tension, and so examples in one line cloud your estimation of the other. [16:43]
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mircea_popescu but you're familiar with the roman, and originally greek notions of "broke the laws of men and gods" yes ? [16:44]
asciilifeform aha [16:44]
asciilifeform the spray paint was thinner in those days [16:44]
mircea_popescu this does not at all translate into civil and criminal [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81159 @ 0.00070855 = 57.5052 BTC [-] {2} [16:44]
mircea_popescu well look, you agree with the broad idea that no man made thing may endure without a place the buck stops ? [16:44]
asciilifeform aha [16:44]
mircea_popescu wheresoever that place is, whosoever sits in it, has the same twin problem no matter what. [16:45]
mircea_popescu ag3nt_zer0 see "la terra trema". think that the film was made in the 1950s by using RANDOM LOCALS [16:46]
mircea_popescu then tell me. [16:46]
asciilifeform there was, i think, a third, more pressing problem: why ought the sultan rule, when he can invent bureaucracy and have amoebas rule in his stead, while he bangs 10,000 chicks/year and smokes opium [16:46]
asciilifeform they solved it with 'law'. [16:46]
mircea_popescu not so. [16:46]
mircea_popescu for one thing, no opium smoker bangs 30 women a day even for two days straight, [16:47]
asciilifeform consider, why is soviet law seen as a laughing stock ? [16:47]
asciilifeform i would say it is only because it did not have centuries of decorative patina on it. [16:47]
mircea_popescu because made by stupid people. [16:47]
asciilifeform so it was apparent, and remains apparent, for what it is. [16:47]
mircea_popescu why are ww2 soviet tanks a laughing stock ? [16:47]
asciilifeform ask the germans if they laughed. [16:48]
mircea_popescu ask stolje if he laughed at law. [16:48]
mircea_popescu they're both equally ridiculous things, for the same exact reason : made "as best we could" by the russians of the time, who were peasants not lawmakers or tank makers. they have all the qualities of chinese farm steel. [16:49]
asciilifeform (more complicated story, with tank. diesel motor was an unambiguous win, as all tank makers eventually came to know.) [16:50]
mircea_popescu on the practical side, they both WORKED, if one's tolerant with the concept. soviet law maintained order in a larger thing than the us, better than the us managed. [16:50]
asciilifeform except it was not, largely, 'law' which maintained order. 'law' was simply the religious incantation uttered by judge before a troublemaker was sent to meet his fate [16:51]
asciilifeform rather than an actual decision-making mechanism [16:51]
asciilifeform when this was no longer the case, the edifice began to fall apart. [16:51]
mircea_popescu and the tank was not, strictly speaking, a tank. [16:51]
mircea_popescu and whjen they gave up their random approach, they came up with the kv, an overengineered useless pos. [16:52]
asciilifeform ^ famous 'second-system effect'! like 'multics.' for that matter, it is an atrocity that scholarly discussions of 'second-system' and 'multics' do not mention the kv ! [16:52]
mircea_popescu because they're as ignorant as my dirty socks. [16:52]
mircea_popescu yes, they were on my feet. they have cells descuamated off me even. [16:53]
mircea_popescu whadda they know for it. [16:53]
asciilifeform 'Прощай КВ братишка наш!!!' [16:54]
asciilifeform << obligatory [16:54]
assbot Прощай КВ братишка наш!!! - YouTube ... ( ) [16:54]
mircea_popescu ahaha wtf is this retarded shit [16:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57104 @ 0.00069548 = 39.7147 BTC [-] [16:55]
mircea_popescu aaaahahaha [16:55]
asciilifeform << text [16:56]
assbot По полю танки грохотали... (Гибель танкиста и т. д.) ... ( ) [16:56]
asciilifeform one of those things that everybody knew the wordz to. [16:56]
mircea_popescu no i know teh song lol. [16:56]
mircea_popescu 325 views ? "obligatory" ? is this like... made by your gf's younger brother or something ? howdja find it [16:57]
asciilifeform << minus the tards, for anyone who needs it. [16:57]
assbot На поле танки грохотали (Na Pole Tanki Grohotali) - YouTube ... ( ) [16:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: from first stab [16:57]
mircea_popescu see, these kids is the fundamental reason a) ru young women are well fucked (well means more than just a lot) and b) the chechens aren't isis. [16:57]
* mircea_popescu likes. [16:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99133 @ 0.00069167 = 68.5673 BTC [-] {2} [16:58]
mircea_popescu does not even agree with "tards" to any degree. yes they sound like monkeys. this is not retarded for their age, healthy 17 yo boys sound like that. [16:58]
asciilifeform nah. tards 'cause the thing wasn't full of saltpetre and didn't light well! [16:59]
asciilifeform mine did [16:59]
mircea_popescu but tard means something very anglo-speciffic. [16:59]
asciilifeform perhaps. [16:59]
mircea_popescu it means this 27 yo man that is indistinguishable from an 11 yo girl. [16:59]
asciilifeform certain that the authors of the film were not this ? [17:00]
mircea_popescu i am persuaded. [17:01]
asciilifeform they have, after all, learned to manufacture those, back in ru. [17:01]
asciilifeform gotta copy ~all~ american innovations, ya know. [17:02]
mircea_popescu could be wrng, who knows. [17:02]
mircea_popescu lol [17:02]
asciilifeform but easiest ones get copied first! [17:02]
mircea_popescu this being the only "american innovation" ? [17:02]
asciilifeform nah, but a popular one for some reason. [17:03]
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mircea_popescu incidentally, even though modern pigments and computers and what have you, we're not being deluged in fine art, as "you'd expect" (if you were say orwell or some other dumb schmuck with the If a man cannot enjoy the return of spring, why should he be happy in a labour-saving Utopia? What will he do with the leisure that the machine will give him? I have always suspected that if our economic and political problems are e [17:18]
mircea_popescu ver really solved, life will become simpler instead of more complex, and that the sort of pleasure one gets from finding the first primrose will loom larger than the sort of pleasure one gets from eating an ice to the tune of a Wurlitzer." thing) [17:18]
mircea_popescu instead the stuff everywhere's remarkably gross. [17:18]
mircea_popescu why ? why, because the redditar of 1600 thought himself blessed to "waste his life away" being a "from X's circle" at the very best. whereas the redditard of 2000 thinks his life too valuable to invest in anything. he is now a thinking man, don't you know, an intellectual - everyone's an intellectual that has computers, suddenly - and a tiny little Kitschhochadel in his own right! [17:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: orwell assumed that full-scale human beings were a naturally-occurring product that could be taken for granted. [17:20]
mircea_popescu yes. because he was a socialist, which is to say an idiot, and expected socialism, which always is "externalise costs" to be able to do so forever. [17:20]
mircea_popescu who the hell knew EVERYTHING had a cost! [17:21]
mircea_popescu what, you can't just print more money and the expectation to the contrary sinks early sopcialism ? [17:21]
asciilifeform where in orwell do we see 'print money' ? [17:21]
mircea_popescu no matter! we "learn from mistakes", ie, claim that "socialism wasn't actually tried" and try again. the same thing. this time, we're printing people., [17:21]
mircea_popescu what, still doesn't work ? NO MATTER!!!1 for we "learn from mistakes" [17:21]
mircea_popescu the thief also learns from the dubious mistake of having been caught. [17:22]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform we don't, he's advanced. [17:22]
mircea_popescu he's not stupid v1, he's stupid v3. [17:22]
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mircea_popescu down with the shackles of this evil british empire of the blips which nevertheless creates the sort of people i like, even if i'm not actuaslly good enough to do anything in support. let's build utopia. [17:24]
asciilifeform as far as i can tell, it was dead long before he learned to read and write [17:24]
asciilifeform what was he to do, cry over the corpse like his contemporaries? then we would not be reading! [17:25]
mircea_popescu i did not say orwell was ineffectuial. i said he was stupid. [17:25]
mircea_popescu yes the bridge is falling whether 5yo cheers it on or not. [17:25]
asciilifeform i still want to picture a 'smart orwell' [17:25]
mircea_popescu but the cheering 5yo is still dumbn [17:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform : ;;google trilema napier [17:26]
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asciilifeform at one point, iirc, he quotes the mega-liturgical 'The rich man in his castle, / The poor man at his gate, / God made them, high or lowly, / And ordered their estate.' as an example of the kind of thing that killing christianity finally nailed, and he can't bring himself to miss it [17:26]
asciilifeform but i don't see that this necessarily qualifies him as a tard. how is one to love something which is incompatible with your own existence ? [17:26]
mircea_popescu a) never was this nailed, anymore than the sun rising is "nailed". [17:26]
mircea_popescu and the poor array of the marbles in his head's his problem. [17:27]
mircea_popescu "So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another." [17:27]
mircea_popescu that's smart orwell for you. [17:27]
asciilifeform can be extended to individual, as well. [17:27]
mircea_popescu so it can. except the individual has the valid excuse of the sexual imperative [17:28]
mircea_popescu but countries are unsexuate [17:28]
asciilifeform ergo the old thread re: why a sp4mz0r wants to 'make $ while sleep' [17:28]
mircea_popescu (which is why they're referred in the feminine) [17:28]
asciilifeform orwell, like - i suspect - a great many folks, carried out the algo where 'i want the kind of world in which i and others like me can sleep ad libitum and eat well' - and turned that into 'philosophy' [17:29]
mircea_popescu yes, the philosophy of a five year old. [17:30]
mircea_popescu which is why i say socialism is for stupid people and the mark of their stupidity. [17:30]
mircea_popescu every fucking year you get at least one of the imbecile "why should i have to take an exam". [17:31]
mircea_popescu every fucking year. [17:31]
mircea_popescu and each one thinks he invented it. [17:31]
asciilifeform the way i read him, he saw 'socialism' (in the sense of industry having a single mega-imperial owner) as a done deal, with the only question being whether the end result would have a gestapo flavour, british ponce buggery flavour, or some other [17:32]
mircea_popescu that part i wasnt even discussing, the "economic" side so to speak. yes, moist people are dumb and industry has no need of them, so from their perspertive industry's run by aliens. fine. [17:32]
mircea_popescu but i meant in the more homely sense. [17:33]
asciilifeform elaborate? [17:34]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and btw, thinking about it - i now realise visconti, the son of the duke visconti no less, actually is the one example of resistence through culture known. his terra trema was paid for by the communist party. and in it he delivers such a trashing to the pious frauds of the communists as has never before seen. [17:35]
mircea_popescu the most important film in support of sanity is a story of poor but stupid sicilian fishermen paid for by fucking stalin. [17:35]
mircea_popescu and i meant in the more homely sense, socialist-books and socialist-philosophy and what have you. not socialist-economy. [17:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82850 @ 0.00071101 = 58.9072 BTC [+] {3} [17:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what books and philosophy of his time ought he have reviewed instead ? [17:38]
mircea_popescu the germans. heidegger. [17:38]
asciilifeform evola? prolly smelled too much of gestapo, triggered anaphylactic allergic shock in mr o [17:38]
mircea_popescu kant. [17:38]
asciilifeform as a cultured man, he likely read'em. but i spoke specifically of 'his time' [17:39]
asciilifeform as in, his reviews [17:39]
asciilifeform the man was a newspaper columnist. [17:39]
mircea_popescu bullshit, read. [17:39]
mircea_popescu and heidegger is his own time. [17:39]
mircea_popescu that is an excuse ? [17:39]
asciilifeform then likely allergic to germans ? [17:39]
mircea_popescu how about "allergic to work". [17:39]
asciilifeform and of course to work! [17:39]
mircea_popescu [17:40]
assbot Fifty Orwell Essays ... ( ) [17:40]
mircea_popescu nbo dude, not OF COURSE TO WORK omfg, [17:40]
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mircea_popescu the "Worker's party" of stupid people and lazy people who figure hey, if worker's in the title above the door work does itself somehow [17:40]
mircea_popescu we'll just sing and dance. [17:40]
mircea_popescu everyone in this country got nothing but "trabajador" in his mouth, and no one's done an honest stitch of work since 1924 [17:41]
asciilifeform idk, i saw a good number of cabbies, cooks, over there. not worked ? [17:41]
mircea_popescu those keep their mouth shut. [17:42]
mircea_popescu i meant of the orwell class. [17:42]
mircea_popescu two-and-sixpence intellectuals of "newspaper columnist: [17:42]
* tsoulus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [17:45]
mircea_popescu (for the younger log reader, "two-and-sixpence" is not random, but a century ago made half a crown. it is used in a sense similar to "too clever by half", because that's really what half a crown is. worse than either a whole crown or no crown at all. at least in the context of this discussion) [17:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform come to think of it - he has a deeply unwarranted sense of superiority over shaw. easily the most important thinker of the period in all the english speaking lands. [17:49]
mircea_popescu i suspect this is also based on not having read. [17:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50559 @ 0.00068366 = 34.5652 BTC [-] {2} [17:54]
* tsoulus (tsoulus@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-mekzzdooegxatsuf) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:05]
mircea_popescu anyway, the main problem with that art ruling thing, getting back to it, is that revisionism in inflation is a bitch. specifically, that sale was in 2006, before the first bout of "quantitative easing". most art of all description sells today for 10x to 100x what it did two decades ago, simply because dollars today, and euros today, are scarcely worth 10 cents. (no, this does not mean nothing to the slaves that spend " [18:10]
mircea_popescu their" "dollars" to buy from mcdonalds and zara. money only means money in the hands of the people who can use it independently, and what someone with tens of millions to his name was in 1995, is what someone wit ha billion to his name today. i'd know.) [18:10]
mircea_popescu so in plain point of fact "the guy would have gotten more in the alternative world" bla bla bla. [18:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99050 @ 0.0006842 = 67.77 BTC [+] [18:11]
ben_vulpes fluffypony: it's a joke, man. [18:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well, yes. art is used precisely like bitcoin, but by the enemy. [18:13]
mircea_popescu not by the enemy, but by the kulaks behind enemy lines. [18:14]
asciilifeform by the architects of the sum total of extant misfortune. [18:14]
mircea_popescu i am not convinced. [18:14]
mircea_popescu why do you think so ? [18:14]
asciilifeform what, the rembrandt owners couldn't turn inflation off like a tap ? [18:14]
mircea_popescu could not, no. [18:15]
mircea_popescu what, stalin couldn't turn off stupid like a tap ? [18:15]
mircea_popescu hitler could have took a stand in 1940 against antisemitism! [18:15]
mircea_popescu only i have the privilege to stand up here and say something of the kind. because i'm part of a fucking republic. [18:15]
asciilifeform who cancelled gold standard? omnipotent martians? [18:15]
mircea_popescu these people don't have a forum. [18:16]
asciilifeform or earth elite [18:16]
mircea_popescu gold standard was cancelled by the mass of idiots. [18:16]
mircea_popescu who went by the "why should something be a standard if what it says is, we don't get any and stfu" [18:16]
asciilifeform since when can 'mass of idiots' make any permanent mark at all? [18:16]
asciilifeform somebody took'em off the leash. [18:16]
mircea_popescu exactly like they go "oh, why should i read trilema if trilema says i'm broken" [18:16]
asciilifeform these folks - own rembrandts. [18:16]
mircea_popescu they are punishing me, see, like they punished the gold standard. in their own heads. [18:17]
mircea_popescu haha, someone took them off the leash. ww2 took them off the leash./ [18:17]
mircea_popescu and the napoleonic wars before that. [18:17]
asciilifeform if you ask moldy, it was cromwell [18:17]
mircea_popescu and the german uprisings during calvin before that. and so on. [18:17]
asciilifeform but no matter [18:17]
phf (was it in the logs, guy brings authentic X "passed through family", gets accused of stealing, because "you're poor, so can't possibly have X") [18:18]
asciilifeform at any rate, what, the rembrandt owners couldn't sell the crap off (to usg, even. it's buying), buy btc, and send to isis? [18:19]
asciilifeform what does their refusal to do so make'em ? [18:19]
mircea_popescu understand : we have the liberty to decide tomorrow that gavin was right. or that bitcoin is stupid. or that whatever else. all this because liberty AT ALL. [18:19]
mircea_popescu but there is no liberty outside. [18:19]
mircea_popescu so, no. kulaks behind enemy lines made no decisions. [18:19]
asciilifeform phf: yes, in the logs; a german fella [18:19]
asciilifeform phf: and it is absolutely routine [18:19]
mircea_popescu and they are responsible and shall hang for the decisions they didn't make. [18:19]
asciilifeform ^ is what i was getting at. [18:20]
mircea_popescu phf "passed through family" in that context is always a miserable cop out. [18:20]
mircea_popescu somehow never is anyone in that family someone with a registered key. [18:20]
mircea_popescu magically. [18:20]
mircea_popescu so i do not credit it nearly as much as you two seem to. [18:20]
asciilifeform here is a 'fun experiment' - get caught somewhere in a 'civilized' country with a trunk full of gold bar [18:20]
asciilifeform or even humble benjies [18:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you understand what i mean by "in the wot" in that context ? [18:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9747 @ 0.000722 = 7.0373 BTC [+] [18:21]
asciilifeform not certain that i do ? [18:21]
mircea_popescu suppose i have a work picasso himself signed with the title "stanislav's teapot shaped head" [18:21]
mircea_popescu and i explain that this comes to me "through family". [18:22]
mircea_popescu except this "through family" claim is documented through five different testations, and it so happens that my uncle was a picasso expert who wrote extensively of this picasso work his brother owned. [18:22]
mircea_popescu and so on. [18:22]
mircea_popescu my claim is good. [18:22]
ag3nt_zer0 [18:22]
assbot "A Figure of Speech, or a Figure of Thought?" (Part 1) - an essay by Ananda K. Coomaraswamy ... ( ) [18:22]
mircea_popescu now suppose i "own" the same, "in the family", but my family is a bunch of poor peasants from honduras. [18:23]
mircea_popescu wut "in family" ? [18:23]
mircea_popescu let me show you "in the family". [18:23]
ag3nt_zer0 Coomaraswamy is fascinating "art historian" [18:23]
mircea_popescu << that's in the family. [18:23]
assbot Stolen Picasso and Monet art 'burned' in Romanian oven - BBC News ... ( ) [18:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sorta what i said in [18:23]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2015 22:35:01; asciilifeform: 'mr x, you're a registered pauper, but is that a first class air ticket you're holding? where'dyagetthat' [18:23]
mircea_popescu well of course ?! [18:23]
asciilifeform to which you answered 'and then i say i found it on the street.' [18:23]
mircea_popescu what worth is an undocumented claim ? [18:23]
mircea_popescu we reject these here on a daily basis! [18:24]
asciilifeform to the inquisitor - naturally nothing [18:24]
mircea_popescu [18:24]
assbot Logged on 20-08-2015 23:05:51; ahmed_bodi: Occasional trader. remember trading with a few people here. lost my PGP? key so i cant auth with assbot myself anymore [18:24]
mircea_popescu what is that claim to you ? [18:24]
mircea_popescu guy's obviously a scammer fishing for soft support, decimation style. [18:24]
asciilifeform except that the two situations are dissimilar [18:24]
mircea_popescu how ? [18:24]
asciilifeform pgp is a hard litmus [18:24]
mircea_popescu so is this. [18:24]
asciilifeform the picasso authentication folks purport to be authenticating the canvas, [18:25]
asciilifeform but really are testing blueness of blood. [18:25]
mircea_popescu here's the litmus : "what part of this alleged family HAPPENED IN THE FORUM ?" [18:25]
asciilifeform not saying that somehow there ~ought~ to be a way for the peasant to cash his picasso in [18:25]
mircea_popescu so then what are you saying ? [18:25]
asciilifeform but that the claim that the picasso is the object being tested is a crock of shit [18:25]
mircea_popescu there isn't a way for peasant to OWN picasso [18:25]
asciilifeform it is the man who is tested. [18:26]
mircea_popescu not anymore than there's a way for him to own plutonium. [18:26]
asciilifeform and it usually doesn't take long. [18:26]
mircea_popescu ownership is not an objective thing., [18:26]
mircea_popescu ownership is a convention [18:26]
asciilifeform ^ [18:26]
mircea_popescu it is wrong to say "the man is tested [18:26]
mircea_popescu the WOT is tested. [18:26]
asciilifeform aha. [18:26]
mircea_popescu no relations, NO RELATION! [18:26]
asciilifeform i don't think we actually disagree here. [18:26]
mircea_popescu so then what do you protest ?! [18:26]
* antonosika (uid31762@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:26]
asciilifeform the pretence of the scumbag 'authenticity' judges [18:26]
asciilifeform and auctioneers. [18:27]
mircea_popescu "i owned it since forever" "who ever saw it ?" "only mute people" [18:27]
asciilifeform with their idiot rituals [18:27]
mircea_popescu i do not see it. [18:27]
mircea_popescu if you claim that "hilary clinton is my wife" on the grounds of "she was always in my family" should your claim stand ? [18:27]
mircea_popescu against the nonsensical vacuum of anyone ever having seen this ? [18:28]
mircea_popescu no wedding pictures? [18:28]
mircea_popescu you never went anywhere as a couple ? [18:28]
mircea_popescu she did, with others ? [18:28]
mircea_popescu wtf. [18:28]
mircea_popescu yes, people will consider you're abject, after this claim. but the claim was disposed not on the grounds of who you are, but on the grounds of what proof was had. [18:28]
asciilifeform my other, separate statement was 'godspeed to anyone successfully faking and debasing their inflationhedgemachines' [18:31]
asciilifeform separate item. [18:31]
mircea_popescu well sure. [18:31]
mircea_popescu you'll notice however that the debasement is very well controlled in the same manner fed controlls the dollar. [18:32]
mircea_popescu they keep pumping more kids in as they need to keep the denominations low enough. [18:32]
assbot Bitcoin and the poor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [18:32]
* mircea_popescu knows random romanian kid that sold for ~1.5mn last year [18:33]
mircea_popescu because why not [18:33]
asciilifeform hanbot: what i meant was, tested for 'blue blood' and not anything else. certainly not intelligence, or culture. [18:33]
mircea_popescu ... [18:34]
mircea_popescu the test still is "who among you has a wot account"! [18:34]
asciilifeform aha. [18:34]
hanbot which condenses to "who among you has/d the intelligence to get in the wot", neh? [18:34]
mircea_popescu < kid in question [18:34]
asciilifeform hanbot: are you in their wot ? [18:34]
assbot Part 2: Looking at the art world over Adrian Ghenie’s shoulder and why I hate it or love it. Not sure. ... ( ) [18:34]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's fucking trivial to get in said wot. [18:35]
asciilifeform rly [18:35]
mircea_popescu yes rly. [18:35]
asciilifeform describe? [18:35]
mircea_popescu a) go to classical/art college ; b) go to auction house intern position ; c) write for whoever will publish about art and do a good job. [18:35]
mircea_popescu won't take 10 years, at how condensed timeframes are now. used to be 35-50. [18:36]
asciilifeform i'm not sure how an algo that requires me to get reborn as another person can be described as 'trivial'. [18:36]
mircea_popescu yes, well, what's your algo to become cussack ? [18:36]
asciilifeform 'how to fly? 1) be a bird' [18:36]
mircea_popescu THAT is a wot you're not getting in. [18:36]
phf "You? Impossible! A mason?" "A mason," I replied. "A sign," he said, "a sign." "It is this," I answered, producing from beneath the folds of my roquelaire a trowel. [18:36]
mircea_popescu but your argument is flawed, which i know personally, and ill tell you why [18:36]
mircea_popescu one of my dearest teachers in college, at the time a respected doctor, retired [18:36]
mircea_popescu and started a career in art, specifically painting scholarship [18:37]
mircea_popescu and he is now a foremost authority in his field. [18:37]
mircea_popescu i have with mine two eyes seen this, and so... [18:37]
asciilifeform and he turned up with an undiscovered picasso and it sold for 40m ? [18:37]
mircea_popescu no, for his field was not cubism [18:37]
asciilifeform $picasso [18:37]
mircea_popescu yes. [18:37]
mircea_popescu (his field was 1800s ro painting, which incidentally is pretty rich.) [18:38]
asciilifeform and sold ? [18:38]
mircea_popescu yes sold. he re-evalued numerous items. [18:38]
asciilifeform neato. [18:38]
mircea_popescu in the upper 100s at the very least. [18:38]
asciilifeform so from the wot pov, it is not an atrocity that if usg enforcers find me with a metric tonne of benjie bills in bags, they will take'em ? [18:39]
asciilifeform if the story of why i have them isn't plausible enough [18:39]
asciilifeform 'in the family' 'stow it' [18:39]
mircea_popescu well, it is an atrocity, because bills were itnended to be carrier notes. [18:40]
mircea_popescu but they re-defined them, apparently, to be a sort of cheques. [18:40]
mircea_popescu the part where they seem to also have forgotten to tell anyone is also atrrocious [18:40]
asciilifeform and the vermeer was intended as a wall decoration ? [18:40]
asciilifeform and also redefined [18:40]
mircea_popescu but in principle a parliament is not required to allow carrier notes in its realm. [18:40]
mircea_popescu i don't see how your simile works. [18:41]
asciilifeform in both cases there is a kind of sham going on [18:41]
mircea_popescu hardly. [18:41]
asciilifeform one where the lie is publicly told that 'if you have a picasso, it is yours, and you're worth 40m' [18:41]
mircea_popescu no such thing was told. [18:42]
asciilifeform rather than the reality, where it is really a trapping of power, like king's scepter [18:42]
mircea_popescu i don't know that ever in the history of civilisation was fine art a bearer document. [18:42]
mircea_popescu now, this was true of money, or more specifically, of currency [18:42]
mircea_popescu in fact that's what the word even means. [18:42]
asciilifeform it is a regular occurrence in usa that some schmuck find $canvas at an estate sale, then cleans it, it gets taken off his hands for a few hundy, and then a blueblood naturally converts it to 40m by getting it WoTed. [18:43]
mircea_popescu nobody forces him to go through the "taken off" step. [18:43]
asciilifeform now this is true! [18:43]
mircea_popescu it used to be a regular occurence in the usa that some cowboy owned some land, got it taken off his hands, buyer became oil baron [18:43]
asciilifeform and i'll have it be known that if i ever come across one, i will burn it. on high-def camera. [18:44]
mircea_popescu but one is not required to sell, be your own oil baron. [18:44]
asciilifeform not quite best analogy - theoretically a plebe may drill for oil (if the local rulers permit it) [18:45]
mircea_popescu anyway, this expectation that some sort of nativism trumps wot is not unlike that swanson's fellow's expectation to tell me "how debates are done". [18:45]
mircea_popescu what is this, kauai ? [18:45]
asciilifeform naturally their wot is at work [18:46]
asciilifeform but it is a wot of vampires of mankind. [18:46]
asciilifeform (who said they couldn't have a wot?) [18:46]
asciilifeform and they do indeed peddle false inclusivity at every turn. [18:47]
mircea_popescu of vampires of wut!? [18:47]
asciilifeform of everybody-who-isnt-rothchild ? [18:47]
asciilifeform approximately. [18:48]
mircea_popescu can you say something more substantial of this than plain if third hand echos of 1970s soviet postcards ? [18:48]
asciilifeform possibly. [18:49]
mircea_popescu so. b-a is the irc channel where vampires of mankind gather, to discuss how to lower into pederasty the teenaged daughters of hard working social media wokers. [18:49]
asciilifeform nah, the socialmedia folks are enforcers of the actual vampires. [18:50]
asciilifeform i still don't see how they could have come to exist in any other way [18:50]
mircea_popescu ... [18:52]
mircea_popescu this sounds like special pleading and nothing more. [18:52]
asciilifeform let's try example? the american universities who pioneered socialist claptrap. did they get cut off from endowments by american industrialists for doing so? 1900s [18:53]
asciilifeform iirc none did. [18:53]
mircea_popescu so ? [18:54]
asciilifeform so 'social media' is a a handcrafted monster of very real elites, rather than a plague of locusts that came out of nowhere [18:54]
mircea_popescu ... [18:55]
mircea_popescu dja know what special pleading means ? [18:55]
asciilifeform apparently not ? [18:55]
mircea_popescu special pleading is a category of pleading, which is a category of speech, which happens in the forum, where the speaker proposes that one member of a category be different from the others on no grounds. [18:56]
asciilifeform but proposed a hypothesis about whole class here [18:56]
mircea_popescu you don't get to pick the class. [18:56]
mircea_popescu the class at issue is the class which includes that "they" and that other "they" and also "us". [18:57]
mircea_popescu so you say "they came as locusts" ? so did we. ask the power rangers. [18:57]
asciilifeform if mircea_popescu's intel tells him that the power rangers see us as locust plague, i'll believe him; but from my chair i cannot see this. [18:58]
asciilifeform afaik they don't see us at all. [18:58]
mircea_popescu sure, and exact same could be argued (and has been argued, by people arguing from your same chari) about trhe evil capitalists which "do not even see the common people they vampirize" [18:58]
mircea_popescu herp. [18:58]
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* asciilifeform doesn't object to elites per se (sorta like objecting to gravity) or to hereditary wealth (also rather like objecting to gravity) but arguing for the degeneracy of a particular set of people [19:01]
asciilifeform like hapsburgs. do we miss'em ? [19:01]
asciilifeform do we miss romanovs ? [19:01]
mircea_popescu you did not phrase it in those terms. [19:02]
mircea_popescu i don't think there's any [19:02]
mircea_popescu debate that teh peoples involved have little juice left in the ballsac. [19:02]
asciilifeform idk, i thought 'godspeed to fakers of vermeers' and 'good bilderberg is a dead bilderberg' was pretty clear..? [19:02]
asciilifeform and also idk, for an empty ballsack it's jizzing pretty well [19:03]
asciilifeform but i don't have mircea_popescu's intel. only My Arse (tm) [19:03]
mircea_popescu lol [19:05]
mircea_popescu well the entire contention was the strange notion that peasant who "finds" vermeer and "has always had it in family" should get to keep it. [19:05]
mircea_popescu perhaps by this notion same peasant who finds young dutchess and "always had her in family" should ALSO keep her [19:05]
mircea_popescu which is quite contradictory with all the soaps the peasant women watch, which all reduce to [19:06]
asciilifeform the explanation involving cheques/promissory notes was pretty neat [19:06]
mircea_popescu "pretty miss dutchess found by peasants - they didn't get to keep her" [19:06]
asciilifeform it makes the subject click in my head. [19:06]
mircea_popescu aok [19:06]
asciilifeform sorta like if a pauper finds a ring of keys - he doesn't get to own the house and car. [19:06]
asciilifeform (and this happens to be one of the reasons why many folks barf at bitcoin...) [19:07]
mircea_popescu technically money, in its circulatory form (ie, currency - to distinguish from the money as unit of account, for instance) was coins and bank-notes. coins are now disused, for entirely practical reasons ; and bank-notes come in those two flavours. moving from one to the other isn't THAT big a leap. [19:07]
asciilifeform aha. i think every kid in usa knows of the $1000 bill, for instance. [19:08]
asciilifeform (and perhaps even saw it in a museum) [19:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.00070964 = 42.0817 BTC [-] [19:08]
asciilifeform but don't be caught with one on the street, yes. [19:08]
asciilifeform though now i'm hard-pressed to see how fdr's confiscation of gold is illegitimate under the framework outlined in this thread [19:09]
mircea_popescu for the record, it's not even clear moving from bearer to certified insturment is anti-liberty. for insmtance - hansa used the certifierd instrument greatly, because as a merchant, giving your son a plain "pay the bearer so much silver upon presentation of this note in such town" was merely an invitation to any highwayman on route to "please fuck this young man in the ass and here's the pay for your trouble" [19:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it did prevail in the justice of the time, did it not. [19:10]
asciilifeform so did the wickard v filburn [19:10]
asciilifeform which was really just 'fdr gets to do whatever the fuck he wants' [19:10]
mircea_popescu how do you propose to run a country ? [19:10]
asciilifeform fortunately it is not in my job description! but no shortage of historic examples to choose from.. [19:11]
mircea_popescu and misunderstand. [19:11]
asciilifeform inescapably. [19:11]
mircea_popescu "how do you propose to make diff work ?" "above my pay grade chief, but here's a website with code snippets" [19:11]
asciilifeform but i don't recall qin zhihuangdi, or peter I, or alexander, prohibiting gold [19:12]
* ben_vulpes has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:12]
mircea_popescu orly. [19:12]
mircea_popescu i recall the roman REPUBLIC prohibiting gold [19:12]
mircea_popescu so much so they all had to bury it. [19:12]
asciilifeform unlike orwell, i don't see totalitarian prison state as automagically flowing from modern tech [19:12]
mircea_popescu nothing flows fropm tech except for more tech [19:12]
mircea_popescu that's the thing. technology is intellectually sterile. [19:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes. didn't say 'no one did this', just 'no shortage of sane examples' [19:12]
asciilifeform of folks who did not. [19:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform your no shortage of "sane examples" refers to an abundance of "convenient retelliungs" [19:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes, i know fdr and co.'s explanation of why they 'had to' confiscate [19:13]
mircea_popescu tell it to me. [19:14]
asciilifeform crash of '29; massive capital misallocations plus natural disasters and misharvests; hordes of paupers demanding to be fed gratis, or failing that, given makework; fdr & co debase currency, make it happen. [19:15]
asciilifeform (yes, moar complicated, and could - and has - fill a bookcase. but this is the 1line version in my head) [19:16]
mircea_popescu [19:16]
assbot ... ( ) [19:16]
asciilifeform ^ aha, them too [19:16]
asciilifeform iirc that was the biggest [19:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform do me a favour, read then we can continue this conversation [19:17]
assbot De pe cind eram io mai tinar on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:17]
mircea_popescu (can you actually read stuff like that or should i provide a summary instead ?) [19:17]
* asciilifeform reads.. [19:17]
mircea_popescu !up antonosika [19:25]
-assbot- You voiced antonosika for 30 minutes. [19:25]
* assbot gives voice to antonosika [19:25]
antonosika thx. [19:25]
antonosika !register 101F52A1B302AB64E82BC090E813577509B35230 [19:25]
assbot Nick antonosika is already taken. [19:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i think i get it.. [19:26]
mircea_popescu "i am taking this from you because you're too stupid to have it". and they knew this is true, and SIGHED THEIR RELIEF. [19:26]
mircea_popescu that's what it is. [19:26]
asciilifeform aha. [19:26]
asciilifeform spiffy piece btw [19:26]
asciilifeform consider posting in other languages. [19:27]
mircea_popescu what, reddit doesn't have enough to spaz over ? [19:27]
antonosika If I do not have access to my backup key, and have a new comp - what proof would work to claim the long party as antonosika? [19:27]
mircea_popescu you need your key. [19:27]
asciilifeform 'I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question!' (tm) (r) (babbage) [19:28]
antonosika What if no one claims a future? [19:28]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: can we wire this to !babbage or the like, l0l [19:28]
mircea_popescu eh what, moar spam ? [19:28]
asciilifeform nah just tired of retyping it. [19:29]
asciilifeform antonosika: what does it mean, 'if no one claims a future' ? [19:29]
punkman << what was wrong there? [19:30]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 16:18:02; asciilifeform: importantly, these need to be detached (own file) signatures. specifically ~not~ like this: [19:30]
phf "found nick, has been in generation for years" [19:30]
mircea_popescu lol [19:30]
asciilifeform punkman: a .sig file should consist wholly of the detached sig [19:30]
punkman asciilifeform: and it wasn't? [19:30]
asciilifeform punkman: i should not have to munge it. [19:30]
mircea_popescu phf do you actually speak russian to the women ? [19:30]
asciilifeform punkman: correct, there were extraneous bytes in the linked example. [19:30]
asciilifeform that it, outside of the ----BEGIN .... ----END... [19:30]
mats ;;gpg info antonosika [19:31]
gribble User 'antonosika', with keyid 86AC5789F93ED2E7, fingerprint 71A1EC4E1B6C7DD853FD856C86AC5789F93ED2E7, and bitcoin address None, registered on Sat Aug 9 17:27:20 2014, last authed on Tue Aug 26 10:21:38 2014. . Currently not authenticated. [19:31]
punkman asciilifeform: I don't see it [19:31]
mats no bitcoin address, think you're fucked, mate [19:31]
antonosika Thanks. [19:31]
antonosika I am antonosika fingerprint 71A1EC4E1B6C7DD853FD856C86AC5789F93ED2E7. I'll do anything to prove it. I'm looking forward to claim a future contract. But I do not have access to my secret key. [19:32]
asciilifeform punkman: actually you're right, i misread. assumed that the sig in the text is the sig in question [19:32]
asciilifeform punkman: but apparently jurov's turdatron accepts a standalong sig with no payload.. [19:32]
asciilifeform this actually means that it is vulnerable to to shitflooding [19:32]
punkman was a feature I think [19:32]
punkman maybe because it already had the file [19:33]
asciilifeform unless it actually looks for a pre-existing payload and checks against it [19:33]
asciilifeform i do not know whether he does this. [19:33]
asciilifeform ;;later tell jurov what does your turdatron script do with attached sigs for which the message has no corresponding payload? looks through existing payloads ? [19:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:33]
punkman << I don't like this [19:35]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 15:59:15; asciilifeform: creating the antipatch is likely to require some manual manipulation. [19:35]
asciilifeform punkman: i did not say that i liked it. [19:36]
* ben_vulpes (~mrfox@unaffiliated/benkay) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:36]
asciilifeform punkman: you are invited to suggest a plausible alternative. [19:36]
mats antonosika: this is related to X.EUR yes? see section 2.3b [19:36]
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asciilifeform punkman: but if your alternative involves my signing of machine-generated code chimera, then ~i~ will not like it. [19:36]
* assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes [19:37]
asciilifeform anyone who wants to use 'git' or some other tardation knows where to find it. [19:37]
antonosika mats [19:37]
mats you can talk to davout, but i doubt he will deliver to someone that cannot prove control of that fingerprint [19:37]
asciilifeform antonosika: in what way are you presently distinguishable from an impostor ? [19:38]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i've gotten the diff of your and my genesis down to the timestamps [19:38]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: we zapped the timestamps [19:38]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: were you awake for that one ? [19:38]
ben_vulpes yessir, but i don't think i implemented it correctly in my vdiff [19:38]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: see earlier thread today with mod6 [19:38]
antonosika hypothetically, as long as there is only one suggestion for what account to make a payment to and the contract finiliz [19:38]
asciilifeform or trinque rather [19:39]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: didja post a genesis.vpatch without timestamps? [19:39]
mircea_popescu i'd seriously consider ending davout's contract if he pays without signature. [19:39]
ben_vulpes << lol [19:39]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 15:41:10; trinque: asciilifeform: I've produced a genesis.vpatch with your instructions which is only different from yours in terms of timestamps. expected result? [19:39]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: << read from here [19:39]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 15:41:34; trinque: I recall discussion of removing the timestamps, but didn't find a conclusion there [19:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if he paid out to a random keyless amoeba, that'd be reason to conclude that he was shot and replaced not even by hitler's agent but by a street dog [19:40]
antonosika asciilifeform: hypothetically - as long as there is only one suggestion, from an impostor or not, for what account to make a payment to AND the contract finalises, wouldn't a future delivery contract state that a payment should take place? [19:40]
asciilifeform antonosika: instead of making this argument, go claim the megatonne of gold sitting in zurich since ww2 [19:41]
mats how does that make sense? you may merely be the first to make the claim, and the genuine article did not yet get around to taking delivery [19:41]
asciilifeform antonosika: after all, 'payment should take place' and 'only one suggestion', yours [19:41]
asciilifeform go grab the zurich gold, why pester the x.eur folks [19:41]
asciilifeform antonosika: you have equally valid claim here and in zurich... [19:42]
ben_vulpes huzzah! [19:43]
mircea_popescu antonosika no, that's not what it says. the contract creates no nude obligation to pay, which may be satisfied, and then a separate and ulterior consideration as to whom. [19:43]
mircea_popescu it starts with the whom. [19:43]
mircea_popescu abstent the whom, there is no obligation. [19:44]
punkman antonosika: did you buy X.EUR on coinbr? [19:44]
antonosika mircea_popescu: I hope you take a good ulterior consideration until then. [19:44]
mircea_popescu i do what ? [19:44]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: before you start recreating and signing 'orchestra' patches as well, also see the thread with mod6 where i explain that the paths need adjusting [19:44]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: (they gotta be homogeneous, as in following the same dir pattern as in 'genesis', to avoid unnecessary complexity in my proggy) [19:45]
mats [2014-08-12 03:34:05] → antonosika joined (uid31762@gateway/web/ [19:45]
antonosika take the action that you deem plausible [19:45]
mircea_popescu ... [19:45]
mats poor guy does look like he may be the real thing. but, no private key, no futures :/ [19:45]
mircea_popescu plausible can not be applied to action. [19:45]
asciilifeform mats: cold equations! [19:45]
mats an expensive lesson... [19:46]
mircea_popescu well, it's denominated in one euro increments, and i don't think he ever had outstanding enough to payu for even one year of college [19:46]
asciilifeform antonosika: << a less-expensive and altogether more diverting lesson [19:46]
mircea_popescu so no, a very cheap lesson [19:46]
assbot Shall be Delivered | The Whet ... ( ) [19:46]
antonosika Thanks for the sympathy mats [19:50]
antonosika Still, there is plausibility, and [19:50]
assbot Anton Osika (@antonosika) | Twitter ... ( ) [19:50]
mircea_popescu nice pic [19:51]
mircea_popescu but you misspelled repetitive. [19:51]
antonosika <3 [19:51]
mircea_popescu and what exactly do you suppose this proves ? [19:51]
antonosika fixed. [19:52]
mats utilitarian is also misspelled [19:53]
antonosika That the contract aims at the antonosika that you are talking to. [19:53]
punkman antonosika: was the lost key also registered at mpex? [19:53]
mircea_popescu lmao twitter now sucks uisers phone number as a "security" thijg too ? [19:53]
mats heh [19:54]
mircea_popescu anyway, i can't be arsed to, but it takes anyone five minutes to create a twitter accouint, link it to a dead website and say "dear mircea popoescu" on it [19:54]
antonosika for arguments sake, it says when it's registered. [19:54]
mircea_popescu so ? [19:55]
mircea_popescu a) twitter is a piece of shit web 2.0 item. they are probably hacked by 4 different teams as we speak and they don't even known [19:55]
* assbot removes voice from antonosika [19:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30003 @ 0.0007021 = 21.0651 BTC [-] [19:55]
mircea_popescu b) you farm these and let them age, what's the big deal. 99% of all social media accounts are registered for the purpose of aging and then be used in a scam exactly like is contemplated here. [19:55]
mircea_popescu be it scamming google or anything else. [19:56]
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ag3nt_zer0 [20:08]
assbot Beck - Beck Reimagines David Bowie's "Sound and Vision" - YouTube ... ( ) [20:08]
ag3nt_zer0 good for the soul [20:09]
mircea_popescu << they metaretaliated. [20:10]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 14:31:53; fluffypony: so 6 hours till North Korea says they'll retaliate [20:10]
mircea_popescu << we still want the graph thing opf this btw. [20:11]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 15:51:32; asciilifeform: this makes it possible to mechanically trace a 'patchchain' [20:11]
mircea_popescu << exactly the idea. [20:11]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 15:53:24; asciilifeform: 'v' will recursively walk the hashes in the release and apply the necessary vpatches to produce the tree. [20:11]
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mircea_popescu << from my own pov it is very convenient, because it reduces to "sign the genesis and sign the meristems you are happy with in deployment" [20:24]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 16:05:39; asciilifeform: it is important that everyone who works on therealbitcoin sign 'genesis' and distribute said signature. [20:24]
mircea_popescu which is exactly a) what should be favoured (make it easy for the DEPLOYERS to sign, let the writers have to do all the hard work) and b) maximally economical. [20:24]
asciilifeform aha. [20:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the graph thing is quite essential (and if no one else does it, i will) because it exposes the actual dependency flow [20:26]
mircea_popescu maybe mike'd consider making it a subthing of his excellent wot graph [20:26]
mircea_popescu because really - they much belong together, and i expect synergy to be productive [20:26]
mircea_popescu (really, V chiefly exists because we put other thibngs together a while back, and we didn't at the time know yet this is how it'll come out. [20:27]
mircea_popescu and this exact scenario has played out a dozen or more times in the history of b-a [20:27]
mircea_popescu starting with its very birth) [20:27]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell mike_c hey, would you make the v graph alongside the wot graph ? [20:27]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:27]
punkman no synergy plz, v will likely be used for other projects, without b-a wot, etc [20:29]
mircea_popescu other projects can go get fucked. [20:29]
mircea_popescu b-a is not a fucking gift "to humanity" as that "humanity" chooses to understand itself. b-a is a gift to humanity as defined by b-a. [20:32]
mircea_popescu humanity as it chooses to understand itself is the chief enemy, actually, and also the author of shit like the gnu diff. and everything else. [20:33]
mircea_popescu if it burns to the ground tomorrow it's about fifty million years too late. [20:33]
punkman sure, but why can't punkman use v for non-b-a project? [20:33]
mircea_popescu sure he can. go ahead. [20:34]
mircea_popescu but in being non-ba project, it misses out on all those things a ba project gets. [20:34]
mircea_popescu just like you can go make yourself a house on the prarie. it won't have running water. and all the whitegoods will work poorly fed from canister. [20:34]
mircea_popescu especially the dishwasher. [20:34]
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mircea_popescu because the whitegoods are fucking made for a house with running water by people who have running water and intend to continue having it. [20:35]
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mircea_popescu "There remains after today no alternative manner to deploy Bitcoin software, or indeed any software that is not a toy intended to be used by children playing, outside of this paradigm. May the switchover be bloody and painful in all the right places." is not some sort of a joke, and in no case can it be waved aside. [20:40]
mircea_popescu it is a central tenant of computer science, henceforth. [20:40]
asciilifeform tenet ? [20:40]
mircea_popescu right./ [20:40]
* asciilifeform out to meatspace for a spell [20:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00070509 = 28.0626 BTC [+] [20:45]
ben_vulpes i'm rather enamored of how bitcoin defines computers now. [20:45]
mircea_popescu tell me about it [20:45]
mircea_popescu and i didn't even understand computers before. [20:45]
ben_vulpes i still don't. [20:46]
mircea_popescu no i mean i didn't really have a very good idea [20:46]
ben_vulpes it's a good and simple definition. "it must build bitcoin with V, it must sync a full chain verifying each block, and it must keep up with the main chain." [20:47]
mircea_popescu "that machine which, unassisted, ~" yeah [20:47]
mircea_popescu first time the equivalent of turing's definition was constructed in practice. [20:48]
ben_vulpes by the by, does anyone know the zfx individual? [20:48]
mircea_popescu no idea. [20:48]
ben_vulpes pm'd me on the topic of --parents vs. -p and os x [20:49]
ben_vulpes which, more idle experiment than an attempt to build a bitcoin on a macos box [20:49]
ben_vulpes ^^ asciilifeform [20:49]
mircea_popescu could have just voiced the guy [20:50]
mircea_popescu << ayup. [20:50]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 18:04:17; asciilifeform: is winblows next ? [20:50]
phf ben_vulpes: -p doesn't seem to do the same thing on os x as --parents does in gnu cp [20:50]
mircea_popescu "for fucks sake, is it necessary to invade every last god forsaken swamp ? is burma next ???" [20:51]
mircea_popescu ayup. [20:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45571 @ 0.00070509 = 32.1317 BTC [+] [20:51]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i was not reading messages at the time [20:51]
mod6 oh this is pretty neat. so I got the mechanics tested & rebased for rel1 -- off of classic patches & genesis.vpatch to be sure. created a "rel1.vpatch" from that. then tested it, worked good on top of extracted genesis.vpatch. then did one of these numbers "cat genesis.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; cat rel1.vpatch >> rel1-fromair.vpatch ; patch -p1 < rel1-fromair.vpatch" [20:51]
mircea_popescu win. [20:52]
mod6 it's a one shot, straight to rel1 source. [20:52]
mod6 now just gotta do it for rel2-pre and clean it up a bit and i think i'll have something for you guys to look at. [20:53]
mircea_popescu having fun shane ? [20:53]
mod6 Yes, Sir :] [20:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95700 @ 0.00071163 = 68.103 BTC [+] {4} [20:54]
ben_vulpes new theory: mpex price correlates with stans work on foundation client [20:55]
mircea_popescu lol [20:56]
mircea_popescu why not s.nsa for chrissakes [20:56]
mircea_popescu << i'd like more explanation of how the fuck this could occur. [20:58]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 18:26:16; asciilifeform: my present understanding is that the only solution to this is that i intend to negrate anyone who EVER does this. [20:58]
mircea_popescu for instance : collision only ? [20:59]
mircea_popescu should we need a salt, in the shape of a #sigline for all authors ? something like [20:59]
mircea_popescu #Made by MP, the 59675th item so made. [20:59]
mircea_popescu ? [20:59]
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mircea_popescu << well no it's not, since no time we what, rate both ? [21:01]
assbot Logged on 22-08-2015 18:32:55; asciilifeform: but it is a handy means of mechanically computing whom to negrate. [21:01]
punkman [21:05]
assbot Bernini bust at Getty Museum prompts criminal complaint in Slovakia - LA Times ... ( ) [21:05]
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lobbes !up lobbesbot [21:08]
* assbot gives voice to lobbesbot [21:08]
lobbesbot !up [21:08]
lobbes !down lobbesbot [21:08]
* assbot removes voice from lobbesbot [21:08]
punkman found the art links through this rabbit hole [21:09]
assbot Anonymous Swiss Collector ... ( ) [21:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00072326 = 20.6129 BTC [+] {3} [21:15]
punkman "What every digital goldbug should be thinking right now: if this can happen with block size, it can happen to the 21m supply cap." [21:26]
* assbot gives voice to trinque [21:30]
trinque whether it can happen is by no means decided yet. [21:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45450 @ 0.00071406 = 32.454 BTC [-] {3} [21:31]
trinque or if it did on some forkchain, who cares? that one will inflate [21:31]
punkman there will be derps herping about 21m cap. [21:31]
trinque there surely will [21:32]
trinque jurov: I still cant change settings for myself in mailman [21:33]
mircea_popescu "this" "can" "happen". except lol mkay. [21:34]
mircea_popescu punkman yes of course. just as soon as there's observable value everywhere a horde of shitheads with spoons are moving towards it. [21:34]
punkman Szabo: "A retail payment system that makes the consumer worry about two prices instead of one is far inferior to system where merchant pays tx fee." [21:34]
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mircea_popescu a retail payment system that isn't visa is going to be inferior to a retail payment system that is visa for the foreseeable future. [21:38]
mircea_popescu for very obvious reasons only a retard needs delineated. [21:38]
mircea_popescu or if it did on some forkchain, who cares? that one will inflate << and for a while it will be "just as good as bitcoin" except "better", like all other scamcoins to date. like ethereum, and next before it, and aurora coin before it, and solidcoin before it and so on. [21:39]
mircea_popescu ppl really need to to a diff between realsolid's claims in 2012 and gavin's claims in 2015 [21:40]
mircea_popescu the lulz so produced should fill any lulztreasury. [21:40]
mircea_popescu what was the one with the contracts i forgety [21:41]
mircea_popescu oh ripple right [21:41]
mircea_popescu incidentally asciilifeform and whoever else is privately thinking of reimplementing pgp : one thing i'd dearly love would be the ability to encrypt not to X, but to "l1". [21:45]
mircea_popescu i'd seriously consider publishing trilema as such if a way for this existed. [21:45]
mircea_popescu sadly it doesn't seem matematically possible to have this miracle. [21:45]
punkman mircea_popescu: perfectly possible [21:47]
mircea_popescu do tell ? [21:47]
mircea_popescu via gossipd, is the closest i can see. [21:47]
punkman when multiple recipients, gpg makes a key, encrypts content with that key, the encrypt key separately for each recipient [21:47]
mircea_popescu multiple UNSPECIFIED recipients. [21:48]
mircea_popescu or as the case may be, specified by reference. [21:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00070478 = 13.8137 BTC [-] [21:49]
punkman reference to what? [21:51]
mircea_popescu l1 in the example [21:52]
punkman and it has to keep working when you add or remove people from l1? [21:53]
mircea_popescu add. [21:53]
punkman I don't see how that'd be possible [21:55]
mircea_popescu gossipd the best i can think of. [21:55]
punkman yeah but that's not "encrypt to UNSPECIFIED set of keys" [21:56]
ben_vulpes dude autodesk fusion 360 does the DUMBEST POSSIBLE THING for EVERY constraint [22:12]
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ben_vulpes does actually have a notion of part-level constraints but only "joints" [22:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.000705 = 4.5825 BTC [+] [22:18]
ben_vulpes which i suppose are nominally the same but raaaaa [22:18]
ben_vulpes solve my system of equations goddamnit don't try to intuit what i mean [22:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.000705 = 4.512 BTC [+] [22:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.000705 = 24.8865 BTC [+] [22:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29748 @ 0.000705 = 20.9723 BTC [+] [22:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00070478 = 3.8058 BTC [-] [23:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00070478 = 20.791 BTC [-] [23:56]
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