Forum logs for 20 Jun 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

indiancandy1	what did u do though	[00:00]
indiancandy1	direct produc	[00:00]
indiancandy1	star>	[00:00]
indiancandy1	?	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	i was a producer/backer.	[00:00]
indiancandy1	in usa	[00:02]
indiancandy1	eu?	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	eu	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	not at the time yet, but anyway	[00:03]
indiancandy1	interestin	[00:04]
indiancandy1	why didnt u tel me	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	how did you find out in the first place ?	[00:04]
indiancandy1	i was in here	[00:05]
indiancandy1	ppl were tlkin about porn	[00:05]
indiancandy1	someone said	[00:05]
indiancandy1	u used 2 direct porn	[00:05]
indiancandy1	i was like no way	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	well so then that's why i didn't tell you, because i told them. i can't do everything myself.	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	memory is getting hazy after all the years, but i dun think i actually directed anything	[00:06]
indiancandy1	you just invested	[00:06]
indiancandy1	in porn	[00:06]
indiancandy1	in porn	[00:06]
indiancandy1	east europe	[00:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86600 @ 0.00040669 = 35.2194 BTC [+] {5}	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	a producer is traditionally more like the adult in charge of the children on the set.	[00:07]
decimation	what's the difference between that and the director?	[00:08]
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indiancandy1	producer is the finance i belive	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	the director's more like the spiritual leader of teh tribe. the producer just makes sure they have enough food and don't fight with it.	[00:09]
indiancandy1	so you were on set watching the talent	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	indiancandy1 i fucked plenty of them, dun worry.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	kinda half the point of the entire thing.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	the small half, but nevertheless.	[00:09]
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indiancandy1	ahaha	[00:11]
indiancandy1	omg mp	[00:11]
indiancandy1	shocking	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	you shock easily.	[00:11]
indiancandy1	well	[00:11]
indiancandy1	i duno	[00:11]
indiancandy1	so u out the game now	[00:11]
indiancandy1	?	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	but in any case, ima direct something with girls in it, so twedledoo	[00:12]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[07:04]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[07:04]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[07:04]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.up:1784a36c358225a6ab0e4ef3b699cd9221ad58a74403287345e5b574199d9fc5	[07:05]
*	#bitcoin-assets :Cannot send to channel	[07:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00041834 = 4.8109 BTC [-]	[07:45]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00042078 = 4.2499 BTC [+]	[07:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00042143 = 16.3726 BTC [+] {2}	[08:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00041815 = 13.3808 BTC [-] {2}	[08:19]
punkman	http://www.tau.ac.il/~tromer/radioexp/	[08:23]
assbot	Stealing Keys from PCs using a Radio: Cheap Electromagnetic Attacks	[08:23]
jurov	hush, lest you cause alf to start measuring cardano emanations and delay the project 10 years	[08:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00042437 = 13.2403 BTC [+] {2}	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	punkman antenna has to be very close and the reason they use it on laptops is that it doesn't actually work on metallic chassis desktops.	[08:49]
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mircea_popescu	(not even going into the details of how running bitcoin in the background provides nearly perfect defense for all this, because good luck distinguishing)	[08:51]
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mircea_popescu	"In order to extend the attack range, we added a 50dB gain stage using a pair of inexpensive low-noise amplifiers (Mini-Circuits ZFL-500LN+ and ZFL-1000LN+ in series, 175$ total). We also added a low-pass filter before the amplifiers. With this enhanced setup, the attack can be mounted from 50 cm away. Using better antennas, amplifiers and digitizers, the range can be extended even further."	[08:55]
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mircea_popescu	yes, further, but logarithmically. the next 1k spent adds 10 cm. the next 100k spent adds another 10 cm. etc.	[08:55]
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mircea_popescu	"Q5: What if I can't get physically close enough to the target computer?	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	There are still attacks that can be mounted from large distances. Laptop-chassis potential, measured from the far end of virtually any shielded cable connected to the laptop" << tells you all you actually wanted to know.	[08:56]
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PeterL	who is running scoopbot_revived ?	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	williamdunne	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	how's the new job ?	[09:05]
PeterL	it's going good, but keeps me pretty busy	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	;;google anastasia the make-up mogul	[09:06]
gribble	Looks created by Jazmin Makeup Moguls on Pinterest \| Bobbi ...: ; Makeup - Anastasia Beverly Hills: ; Anastasia Beverly Hills \| Sephora:	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	all these things which exist...	[09:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00042548 = 8.4032 BTC [+]	[09:08]
PeterL	;;later tell williamdunne want me to give you the nick "scoopbot" for your bot?	[09:08]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[09:08]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00042592 = 12.0322 BTC [+] {2}	[09:15]
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mircea_popescu	"[How is it possible for an adult American to need to spend full-time maintaining a 20-year-old house? I got some insight into this the other day. << holy shit the us has turned into 80s romania.	[09:19]
PeterL	link?	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2015/06/17/home-school-shanghai-school-and-american-k-12-all-in-one-conversation/	[09:22]
assbot	Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Home school, Shanghai school, and American K-12 all in one conversation ... ( http://bit.ly/1fnFENk )	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	was in the log earlier	[09:22]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, the comments on that article are particularly retarded. one schmuck that can barely spell brings the entire "football team fan" argument, without a trace of irony or even the faintest hint of self awareness. he honestly believes that since "technology" today is better than 100 years ago, while the math kids could do out of highschool back then was 10x harder, it then follows that studying hard has no payoff.	[09:26]
mircea_popescu	some other schmuck by the name of "jim" explains that he would really really want everyone to beliueve that hte children of special people are not in fact special by this fact, but merely indistinct mass, because everything's equal, and moreover that kids who didn't go through the everything's equal idiocizer "lack the ability to empathize with their peers", which is codetalk for "do not credit the idiotic propositiopn	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	that everyoner's equal"	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	i have no fucking clue how greenspun keeps from going on a shooting rampage, living with these idiots.	[09:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51630 @ 0.00042824 = 22.11 BTC [+] {2}	[09:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58820 @ 0.00043053 = 25.3238 BTC [+] {2}	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	all i can see is	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/#selection-75.345-75.434	[09:34]
assbot	The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fnGysY )	[09:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15909 @ 0.00041799 = 6.6498 BTC [-]	[09:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32747 @ 0.00043423 = 14.2197 BTC [+] {3}	[09:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29294 @ 0.00044143 = 12.9313 BTC [+] {3}	[10:04]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00042196 = 9.2198 BTC [-]	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	"Nevertheless, if at issue is to find out if FartFarer was the DukeDickwalker's father or uncle one can always trust the wikidorks got it right."	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	so im binge-reading trilema and shit i love myself.	[10:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.0004199 = 19.2314 BTC [-] {2}	[10:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00041799 = 2.487 BTC [-]	[11:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38574 @ 0.00041562 = 16.0321 BTC [-] {2}	[11:35]
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mircea_popescu	!up Drhelmut	[11:53]
-assbot-	You voiced Drhelmut for 30 minutes.	[11:53]
*	assbot gives voice to Drhelmut	[11:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00041267 = 2.93 BTC [-]	[11:53]
Drhelmut	Yo guys	[11:55]
Drhelmut	thx mircea	[11:55]
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danielpbarron	http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt << allegedly by the church shooting guy	[11:59]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1K2MYcm )	[11:59]
danielpbarron	> Yet when we learn about anything important done by a black person in history, it is always pointed out repeatedly that they were black. For example when we learn about how George Washington carver was the first bobbaer smart enough to open a peanut.	[12:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18420 @ 0.0004223 = 7.7788 BTC [+]	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	rhodesia eh ?	[12:04]
danielpbarron	> I dont pretend to understand why jews do what they do. They are enigma.	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	The event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I kept hearing and seeing his name, and eventually I decided to look him up. I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was unable to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words �black on White crime� into Google, and I have never been the same since that	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	day.	[12:05]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, as a present day slave owner that thing makes for a pretty amusing read.	[12:08]
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mircea_popescu	"A horse and a donkey can breed and make a mule, but they are still two completely different animals. Just because we can breed with the other races doesnt make us the same. " << this is actually a flawed argument on multiple levels. first off, the mule is sterile. second off, the ability to conceive is a very good measure of species proximity. thirdly, there's no proposition of "identity", there's no such thing as bio	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	logical identity, or for that matter identity in nature.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	the multicultural proposition is idempotence, not identity.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	"I think that if we could somehow destroy the jewish identity, then they wouldnt cause much of a problem." bwahaha dude...	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	why the fuck ?	[12:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32300 @ 0.00042732 = 13.8024 BTC [+] {2}	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	"I will say this though, I myself would have rather lived in 1940's American than Nazi Germany, and no this is not ignorance speaking, it is just my opinion." << holy shit, by the time a guy with serious respect for opinions as a mental construct and a preference for historical us over nazi germany goes shooting up the police station you know the sops problem hath come full circle.	[12:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00042467 = 5.1597 BTC [-]	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	chomsky warned it will, there's http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/#selection-349.0-349.11	[12:23]
assbot	The SOPS, or what might you expect from government clerks on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K2Phfq )	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	the us is no longer governable. they can do all usual the song and dance about how "crazy" etc the guy was,	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	but there's no stopping the flood of them.	[12:23]
danielpbarron	this isn't the police station guy	[12:23]
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danielpbarron	i guess there were two shootings recently; the church one is all over the news and apparently the police station guy isn't	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	there's going to be weeks with a thousand shootings,	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	if the old whore has enough in her to take it.	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	and ten thousand, and a hundred thousand.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	"Unfortunately at the time of writing I am in a great hurry and some of my best thoughts, actually many of them have been to be left out and lost forever. But I believe enough great White minds are out there already."	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	the minds are scarcely the problem. which is part of why i credit so little the entire "iq" verbiage. if iq were the determining factor in anything we'd be living on the moon already.	[12:27]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41961 @ 0.00043737 = 18.3525 BTC [+] {3}	[12:55]
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TheNewDeal	;;bc,stats	[13:01]
gribble	Current Blocks: 361783 \| Current Difficulty: 4.969238635489384E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 362879 \| Next Difficulty In: 1096 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 54 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[13:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49689 @ 0.0004489 = 22.3054 BTC [+]	[13:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00044459 = 5.2906 BTC [-]	[13:39]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00045217 = 6.1947 BTC [+]	[13:44]
mats	http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/june/mass-extinction-ehrlich-061915.html	[13:44]
assbot	Stanford researcher says sixth mass extinction is here ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVwTDJ )	[13:45]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[13:45]
pete_dushenski	"Using fossil records and extinction counts from a range of records" << not the most complete picture, this. sorta hard to draw conclusions on how many cheeses there are in the world based on the ones at your local grocery store	[13:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.0004383 = 9.0728 BTC [-]	[13:50]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169575 << that laptops are only marginally more sane and secure than smartfones, and that proper computing is desktop computing.	[13:53]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 11:52:26; mircea_popescu: There are still attacks that can be mounted from large distances. Laptop-chassis potential, measured from the far end of virtually any shielded cable connected to the laptop" << tells you all you actually wanted to know.	[13:53]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169607 << haha. any other gems to share with the class ?	[13:56]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 13:32:44; mircea_popescu: so im binge-reading trilema and shit i love myself.	[13:56]
pete_dushenski	;;ticker	[13:57]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 243.91, Best ask: 243.92, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 243.8, 24 hour volume: 30090.14772989, 24 hour low: 240.0, 24 hour high: 247.81, 24 hour vwap: None	[13:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00043425 = 5.1024 BTC [-]	[14:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.0004383 = 3.7256 BTC [+]	[14:06]
pete_dushenski	been following that spandrell character that decimation put the chan onto a few weeks back and i have to say that i enjoy and appreciate his historical research and perspective, but it's a shame how badly the kid still cowers in fear of his own shadow	[14:08]
pete_dushenski	talking about how "we need to coordinate to protect from sjws"	[14:08]
pete_dushenski	i left him a comment trying to wipe the shit from his eyes but i dun think it was particularly effective	[14:09]
pete_dushenski	https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/06/17/public-speech-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-6724	[14:09]
assbot	Public speech is a bad idea \| Bloody shovel ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVyXvE )	[14:09]
pete_dushenski	i still keep reading him. but he really ought to show up here. i'll have to invite him around one of these days.	[14:11]
pete_dushenski	"The French generals were a lot tougher and better educated than almost anyone in US uniform today. They'd started off doing Jedburgh team jumps into occupied France in WW2, went on through the meat grinder of Indonesia (many through Dien Bien Phu) and Algeria. In the meantime, they'd gotten real educations, not degrees in Business Management from West Dickhole State like your typical US officer."	[14:15]
pete_dushenski	"I understood that a career spent in a careerist organization has the effect of undermining character and training/selecting for poor moral courage, and that nobody in the US military with the rank and position to plan and launch a coup had the courage to do so successfully."	[14:15]
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pete_dushenski	encouraging, no ?	[14:17]
pete_dushenski	a buncha unmotivated, uneducated, unincentivised, uncivilised deskjockeys make up the most 'powerful' arms of the firstbestlargestfastest state in the world	[14:18]
pete_dushenski	if there is a lizard hitler, he's struggling for air beneath his 1000kg cloak of redditardation	[14:19]
pete_dushenski	last two quotes from http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2540	[14:20]
assbot	JL: ‘A Career Spent in a Careerist Organization’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVA2DJ )	[14:20]
pete_dushenski	and it's too beautiful to not be outside right now so ima be gone with the wind !	[14:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133850 @ 0.00042284 = 56.5971 BTC [-] {4}	[14:23]
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thestringpuller	i'm real tired of your shit gavin andressen	[14:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00043831 = 7.9334 BTC [+] {2}	[14:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00045217 = 1.9443 BTC [+]	[14:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27914 @ 0.00041573 = 11.6047 BTC [-]	[15:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00042197 = 12.4481 BTC [+]	[15:18]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169637 << 'not governable' is when the tax receipts dry up, and the cities burn. not when schmuck #xxxxxx fires a few pot shots at cop and dies same day	[15:19]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 15:19:52; mircea_popescu: the us is no longer governable. they can do all usual the song and dance about how "crazy" etc the guy was,	[15:19]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169570 << actually works great on desktops. peripheral wiring (and power line) - excellent antennae	[15:20]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 11:45:17; mircea_popescu: punkman antenna has to be very close and the reason they use it on laptops is that it doesn't actually work on metallic chassis desktops.	[15:20]
asciilifeform	(yet another reason to run on a double-converter 'ups' or at least an isolator transformer!)	[15:21]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169656 << see above	[15:21]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 16:49:14; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169575 << that laptops are only marginally more sane and secure than smartfones, and that proper computing is desktop computing.	[15:21]
punkman	yeah I'd rather do airgap on laptop with battery than desktop	[15:22]
asciilifeform	did i write here re: how a keyboard (esp. a decent 1980s 'ps/2' one) can be 'heard' from across the street ?	[15:22]
asciilifeform	pretty sure that i did.	[15:22]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169653 << orlov is obsessed with that fella	[15:23]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 16:41:04; assbot: Stanford researcher says sixth mass extinction is here ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVwTDJ )	[15:23]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169594 << i read that comment differently - that genetic garbage will not turn into something else regardless of where schooled	[15:28]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 12:23:56; mircea_popescu: some other schmuck by the name of "jim" explains that he would really really want everyone to beliueve that hte children of special people are not in fact special by this fact, but merely indistinct mass, because everything's equal, and moreover that kids who didn't go through the everything's equal idiocizer "lack the ability to empathize with their peers", which is codetalk for "do	[15:28]
asciilifeform	in the past, there was a great deal of noise esp. in usa re: how slum children, in their rookeries, were the way they were solely on account of lead poisoning. well, where is the lead now? and how are the rookeries ?	[15:29]
asciilifeform	ditto for public schooling vs whatever other kind	[15:29]
*	asciilifeform ran into a number of 'home school' veterans at uni. did not notice anything peculiar about them as people, neither for better or worse.	[15:30]
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asciilifeform	incidentally, 'children of special people' ~do~ tend towards 'indistinct mass.' yes, dynasties of thinking folks existed, e.g., the bernoulis, etc. but most are more like feynman's daughter	[15:32]
asciilifeform	nothing to write home about	[15:32]
asciilifeform	'regression to the mean' ~is~ a thing	[15:32]
asciilifeform	(there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'	[15:33]
asciilifeform	)	[15:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78592 @ 0.00043403 = 34.1113 BTC [+] {4}	[15:33]
TheNewDeal	(tm)?	[15:33]
thestringpuller	(r) (c)	[15:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33858 @ 0.00041595 = 14.0832 BTC [-] {2}	[15:36]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169664 << pretty sure i met herr spandrell at handle's party	[15:37]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 17:04:21; pete_dushenski: been following that spandrell character that decimation put the chan onto a few weeks back and i have to say that i enjoy and appreciate his historical research and perspective, but it's a shame how badly the kid still cowers in fear of his own shadow	[15:37]
asciilifeform	unless i have him symlinked mentally with a similar fella	[15:37]
asciilifeform	(these 'alt right' folks have blended into 'indistinct mass' in my head, sadly)	[15:37]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169596 << smart folks understand futility very well. which is why 'postals' tend to be played out by borderline tards, to no long-term effect whatsoever	[15:45]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 12:24:13; mircea_popescu: i have no fucking clue how greenspun keeps from going on a shooting rampage, living with these idiots.	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	i doubt it has anything to do with smart.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	imo, eunuchs understand... futility. and for bonus lol points, fut is the present indicative of to fuck in romanian.	[15:51]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: so where are the non-retarded 'postal' ?	[15:53]
asciilifeform	blacked out from news ?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	i do not think this guy is retarded.	[15:53]
asciilifeform	or, on other end of the spectrum, 'isis' et al - also run by & for tards (and usg stooges)	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	i actually think he is more respectable than pretty much every surviving american.	[15:54]
asciilifeform	respectable perhaps in the chechen 'died a good death' sense	[15:54]
asciilifeform	but what permanent dent did he make in anything?	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	whatever you will call it.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	he has.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	obama has left no mark on the world. this man - has.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	his name i will record, everyone else's - no call.	[15:55]
*	asciilifeform digs for the original link / stats / corpse count	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	you have to dig no further than right here. the fact that you feel teh need to sell me on the idea he never happened is pretty much good enough.	[15:58]
asciilifeform	i'd like to believe that 'happened.' but want to know ~how~. e.g., are there fewer usg cops today than last week? is the fed printing fewer usd ? what, precisely, is this mark.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	but the problem is, there's no promise the how will be approachable.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	otherwise the buddha'd be a cooking recipe.	[16:00]
asciilifeform	so we have 'partizan died for the motherland' situation.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	i dun think so.	[16:01]
asciilifeform	job of partizan, however, is not simply to 'die with honour', but take some of the scum with him to hell	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	i dun think any of these actually works in this context.	[16:01]
*	asciilifeform is grasping for so much as a hint of what works in this context..	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	let's return to gorgo, the woman that allegedly "spartan women can rule men because they can squeeze them out". her husband famously told her to "mary well and serve her man". also, partizan motherland ?	[16:02]
asciilifeform	sure.	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	well then it's a meaningless concept.	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	ie, applies to everyone dead.	[16:03]
asciilifeform	i get the idea that 'many raindrops -> flood.' but where is the flood ?	[16:03]
asciilifeform	and what is to be flooded	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	nono, the idea is that calling everything the same thing is the opposite of trying to understand. you can't analyse by synthetic means.	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	if your observation about a fact is a word that applies to all facts, you've not even attempted to study the peculiar of the fact.	[16:04]
asciilifeform	i'm balking at the idea that the 'how' is this mystical thing that one cannot even attempt to apprehend	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	one certainly can not attempt to apprehend the death of cesaria evora by saying "niggers"	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	yes, she was black. nevertheless...	[16:05]
asciilifeform	even the 'jihad' folks don't work this way	[16:05]
asciilifeform	they have concrete aims, however simplistic	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	no. i don't think your idea of "aims" actually applies to them.	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	they do not have concrete aims in your definition of such.	[16:05]
asciilifeform	'the scum must die' is an example of an actionable doctrine	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	it is ?	[16:06]
*	asciilifeform is labouring under a very palpable feeling of failing to get his teeth around the enigma here	[16:08]
asciilifeform	perhaps best comparison is to the mouse in the jar	[16:08]
asciilifeform	say he had beaten his brains out against the glass, while attempting escape. while in a sense this is 'honour', what has mouse accomplished ?	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	but look : the standard european mecanicism is not a universal ideology. actually, plenty of people have never even heard of it. they regard things - often the same things, yes - but that does not necessarily mean they see themwith the same eyes.	[16:09]
asciilifeform	well sure	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	take the easier to digest example of the child who earnestly thinks milk comes from the supermarket.	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	you may think "he eats because hungry - just like me", and he agrees.	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	what if - to him, hungry is the subjective sense of lack induced by watching tv without a milk glass in hand like ... every single case of people watching tv he's seen on tv ?	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	is this, properly, "hunger" ?	[16:10]
asciilifeform	'philosophical zombie' (tm) (r) ?	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	not even. merely, "european mecanicism zombie"	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	ie, a being not informed by the rote assumptions of your culture.	[16:11]
asciilifeform	btw it is no accident that this term appeared around the same time that these creatures were actually brought into being	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	the ascendancy of ideology does not actually bring anything into being but its own zombies.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	the rest of the world - unchanged.	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	so the word's backwards.	[16:12]
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asciilifeform	so pashtun is actual human, civilized man - zombie ?	[16:12]
asciilifeform	(orlov's '5 stages' book, as well as of course 400 yrs of euro 'wish i were an amerind' material, ends with just this)	[16:13]
asciilifeform	as does limonov, etc.	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	well, not exactly.	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	one's sane and the other mentally ill.	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	because what a dead and decaying civilisation does to the brain is indistinguishable from the early stages of mental illness.	[16:15]
asciilifeform	what planet can i visit to meet sane+civilized ?	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	but the comparison can not be properly carried in civilisational terms - there aren't any. the only common ground is natural, and that's what yields there.	[16:15]
*	asciilifeform readies launcher	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	sane + civilised is only available at times when a civilisation prospers. these aren't these atm.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	arguably it's right here, but i think it's early for that.	[16:16]
asciilifeform	ergo the closest thing to sane man in civilization is, today, the wrecker ?	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	in my reading.	[16:16]
asciilifeform	even from this perspective, mr postal is ineffectual	[16:16]
asciilifeform	with his pea shooter	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	effectual is not a consideration.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	the man who doesn't steal - also "ineffectual".	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	as he caught no thieves.	[16:17]
jurov	btw, when it was prospering? in manifest destiny times?	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	definitely the gilded generation.	[16:17]
asciilifeform	jurov: perhaps, at the latest, when it feasted on the ashes of the remaining planet it burned in the world wars ?	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	1890 probably closest available. it IS possible china is prospering atm, i am blind and clueless	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the only marginal avenue for all that is claiming mussolini's claimed italian revival was genuine. i speak the language and do not believe the theory, in agreement with the vast bulk of native speakers.	[16:18]
asciilifeform	speaking of, mircea_popescu fan of j. evola ?	[16:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00041573 = 8.4601 BTC [-]	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	hitler&gobbles' inane insanities certainly do not constitute more of a nordic system than the current socialism.	[16:19]
asciilifeform	(afaik evola is only available in original it and in ru)	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	i wouldn't go as far as fan	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform let me approach the matter this way : you have an infestation of badgers in your living room. so you set down a dozen traps. overnight, two traps have sprung.	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	the infestation is no longer.	[16:22]
asciilifeform	re: the question of 'when prospered', little story. today i went again to the argentinian fella (who was thrilled that i had visited his home town) to get major work on my car. took a while, and as i always do, went to the antique shops which surround the place for miles around. and, as before, noticed that the artifacts are chronologically upper-bounded around 1955.	[16:22]
asciilifeform	that's when 'prosperity' upper bound.	[16:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96000 @ 0.00041484 = 39.8246 BTC [-] {3}	[16:23]
asciilifeform	when the nostalgiacs stop.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	at that time the first trap to ever spring sprung, and the second had not : a) were the other eleven effectual or ineffectual ? b) was the one that sprung effectual or ineffectual ? note that still badgers around, AND FROM THE POINT O VIEW OF THE BADGERS, every item is just as much a trap as the traps.	[16:23]
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mircea_popescu	the man who has not shot an invader in his livingroom is not by this a man who will not. just a trap no invader has stepped on yet, is all.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	the man that has so shot one, is not by this ineffectual, even if invaders left.	[16:23]
asciilifeform	this'd be if he had shot the usg polizei repossessing his house, or the like	[16:24]
asciilifeform	but he did what, break a window ?	[16:24]
asciilifeform	at random station?	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	im not entirely sure i have enough data to build a chain as you propose.	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	i can but shrug.	[16:25]
asciilifeform	what i'm seeing with the 'postals' is something like what tlp saw	[16:25]
asciilifeform	fools acting out 'hollywood' revenge with small arms	[16:25]
asciilifeform	rather than quietly cooking trotyl for years	[16:25]
asciilifeform	or the like	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	this is what all they who disagreed with chomsky and agreed with civilisational narrative re joe stack also saw.	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	it is the siren song of britni spears.	[16:26]
asciilifeform	'killdozer' fella was better example, imho	[16:26]
asciilifeform	even herr stack could have done well with his little flying bomb	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	iirc he stacked it with extra fuel or something.	[16:26]
asciilifeform	(why did he wait for the usg snakepit to empty?)	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	anyway, it is no argument to say of the badger trap "but it shot no laser"	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	ie, this may be a valid discussion of trapmakers, as it discusses how much of a trap it is, but not at our level, where we discuss what is is.	[16:27]
asciilifeform	so far best i can think of is 'solzhenitsyn's axe' argument	[16:27]
asciilifeform	yes, if every man with axe, then game over	[16:28]
asciilifeform	but it is never 'every man'	[16:28]
asciilifeform	not even among the pashtuns.	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	well no. you are in the unique position where someone killed himself, and you say "his death was not effectual - as it didn't resolve his problems. lo, they are still here!"	[16:28]
asciilifeform	and 'every man with spear' did not help the zulu.	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	well yes, they are. so are you. so what of it ?	[16:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15748 @ 0.000437 = 6.8819 BTC [+]	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	in any case : people who don't steal do not become by this better thieves. they do instead become part of a different world.	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	tho thieves often think in terms of "o look, a slow scam is being set up!!1"	[16:29]
asciilifeform	what of it is that folks who are really in a hurry to commit suicide with an optional small side dish desert of small-scale homicide are not partizans.	[16:29]
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mircea_popescu	which i guess makes sense. to them, anyway.	[16:29]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform they are, however briefly. the others often never get around to it.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	you know, once ceausescu was finally killed, it came to light there have been thousands of people plotting his demise, allegedly. to hear them talk, some of these had gone on for decades.	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	the response was usually ridicule.	[16:31]
asciilifeform	ditto in post-war fr	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	right.	[16:31]
asciilifeform	but notice he was not killed by lone 'nutter'	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	he nearly was,	[16:32]
asciilifeform	but by crowd that reached 'schelling point'	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	and ww1 was started by exactly such.	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	ie, check out this guy's excuse.	[16:33]
asciilifeform	my original observation was that the folks who have the mental chops to bring about four, five-figure body counts - do not.	[16:34]
asciilifeform	and why	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	because they proceed of causes, not towards purposes ? who yet even cares per se of body count ?	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	they're not playing counterstrike	[16:34]
asciilifeform	partizans - cared	[16:34]
asciilifeform	one fewer german, one fewer train, tank	[16:34]
asciilifeform	at the very least, enemy cannot simply shrug and ignore burned train	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	live partizans cared.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	if this man were here talking, i would make the same exact observation.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	as you do, i mean.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	"hey, this isn't the best plan i ever heard"	[16:35]
asciilifeform	when i say 'ineffective,' my thought is 'usg can survive as many of these as are ever likely to appear'	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	but note that at no point would him getting killed be part of a best plan, so	[16:36]
asciilifeform	without a visible dent	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	it's already a given he's taken at most a local maximum	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	in which case...	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform understand, by subjective criteria as you employ, the english empire still survives.	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	confederate us survive	[16:37]
asciilifeform	english empire survives!	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	white china survives, and the fucking hittite empire to boot	[16:37]
asciilifeform	usg bought it at fire sale	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	ya ya.	[16:37]
asciilifeform	to rephrase, elephant can be killed by hunter - with bullet, or spear even. but there are not enough chimps in all of africa to kill it by throwing own shit at it, even were all of the chimps to agree to this plan.	[16:39]
asciilifeform	elephant - laughs.	[16:40]
asciilifeform	(or i imagine that it would, if it could)	[16:40]
jurov	i can easily imagine elephat drowning in shit	[16:41]
jurov	*elephant	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	this is only about the elephant for the elephant.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	;;later tell BingoBoingo today i saw the classic 'mosin' for sale; costing roughly 3x what i last remember seeing...	[16:42]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	you're discussing the matter in inadequate terms, as if you were to try and judge software by what happens with the table.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	well, is it possible for me to apprehend the correct terms, whatever they might be, or do i need some of nubbins's lsd ?	[16:43]
asciilifeform	the lsd naturally secreted in my skullcase, apparently does not suffice	[16:44]
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mircea_popescu	now that i dunno.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	i did think teh present conversatiuon made it plainly clear.	[16:45]
asciilifeform	perhaps go back to the observation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-06-2015#1169229	[16:46]
assbot	Logged on 19-06-2015 23:26:40; mircea_popescu: mats and cats have had millions of years to develop fishing implements.	[16:46]
asciilifeform	cats 'act from cause, never from purpose' but still have not invented fishing pole.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	i've yet to see a cat in desperate need of overthrowing the imposition of catdom upon it, however.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php << mega-relevant	[16:49]
assbot	'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell ... ( http://bit.ly/1GyXHZL )	[16:49]
asciilifeform	^ classic, on subject	[16:49]
asciilifeform	has pretty much the same point as mircea_popescu's explanation earlier	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	well i guess ima read it	[16:49]
asciilifeform	and results in equal amount of 'what am i, the single ant, to do, wtf' after reading.	[16:49]
*	asciilifeform wanders off to pet pet	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	‘Is that so?’ The other eyed him speculatively, had another pick at his teeth. ‘And what makes him excellent?’	[17:00]
mircea_popescu	ahaha	[17:00]
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mircea_popescu	!up SirJacket_	[17:15]
-assbot-	You voiced SirJacket_ for 30 minutes.	[17:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00041267 = 4.1267 BTC [-]	[17:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49500 @ 0.00041213 = 20.4004 BTC [-] {3}	[17:31]
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shinohai	Interesting read: https://securelist.com/analysis/publications/70673/uncovering-tor-users-where-anonymity-ends-in-the-darknet/	[17:35]
assbot	Uncovering Tor users: where anonymity ends in the Darknet - Securelist ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gz2OsY )	[17:35]
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shinohai	dat netsplit	[17:39]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[18:07]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[18:07]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[18:07]
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mircea_popescu	ahaha	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	‘Nonsense!’ declared Gleed. ‘There is no such thing. There is no weapon inventable that the other fellow can’t employ once he gets his hands on it and learns how to operate it.’	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	‘Are you sure about that?’	[18:28]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169801 <<< there are english translations (reading ride the tiger atm)	[18:28]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 19:15:29; asciilifeform: (afaik evola is only available in original it and in ru)	[18:28]
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mircea_popescu	that quote is exactly the http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/#selection-151.258-157.105 observation	[18:32]
assbot	Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdnKDj )	[18:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16376 @ 0.00041009 = 6.7156 BTC [-]	[18:53]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169903 << deadly boring on account of none of the material being in any way new (to anyone with even a faint interest in the subject) whatsoever.	[18:57]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 20:31:36; shinohai: Interesting read: https://securelist.com/analysis/publications/70673/uncovering-tor-users-where-anonymity-ends-in-the-darknet/	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i will say for the record that a) the "economic" model contemplated by the naive socialist pseudo-anarchists cooking up the story is broken and b) anyone aged 16 who can't figure out how to extract value out of it should go hang.	[18:57]
asciilifeform	wai wut	[18:57]
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asciilifeform	extract out of what	[18:58]
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shinohai	@ asciilifeform therefore I post for newcomers to understand why tor is smacktarded.	[18:59]
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mircea_popescu	http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php < that thing.	[18:59]
assbot	'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdr6GB )	[18:59]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what i meant was, extract a lesson from the story, or extract the juice from the folks portrayed therein	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	it would take me about a month of "earth time" to own one of their townlets, i reckon.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	and i'm not even jewish.	[19:00]
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asciilifeform	author would probably answer 'jew lands and will die of problems before he gets so much as a gram rather than pound of flesh'	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	yaya	[19:01]
asciilifeform	(on earth, we know that this does not happen, sure.)	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	it does not happen period. the "floating value of coin" model gets reliably thundered into the dirt by fixed value coins and arbitrage.	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	it's what built the roman empire, the solidus	[19:02]
asciilifeform	anyway linked piece on account of 'magic power of saying fuckyou no' subject	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	before they fucked it all up, which is what ended it.	[19:02]
asciilifeform	rather than recipe for life	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	aha,	[19:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17974 @ 0.00041009 = 7.371 BTC [-]	[19:02]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: also the implication in the story was that the 'gands' lived in dunbar-number villages	[19:03]
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asciilifeform	hence the informal 'coin'	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	i am aware. this makes it not work quite specifically.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	you ever seen the pawnbroker btw ?	[19:04]
asciilifeform	no?	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	Jesus Ortiz: Say, how come you people come to business so naturally?	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	Sol Nazerman: You people? Oh, let's see. Yeah. I see. I see, you... you want to learn the secret of our success, is that right? Alright I'll teach you. First of all you start off with a period of several thousand years, during which you have nothing to sustain you but a great bearded legend. Oh my friend you have no land to call your own, to grow food on or to hunt. You have nothing. You're never in one place long enou	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	gh to have a geography or an army or a land myth. All you have is a little brain. A little brain and a great bearded legend to sustain you and convince you that you are special, even in poverty. But this little brain, that's the real key you see. With this little brain you go out and you buy a piece of cloth and you cut that cloth in two and you go and sell it for a penny more than you paid for it. Then you run right o	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	ut and buy another piece of cloth, cut it into three pieces and sell it for three pennies profit. But, my friend, during that time you must never succumb to buying an extra piece of bread for the table or a toy for a child, no. You must immediately run out and get yourself a still larger piece cloth and so you repeat this process over and over and suddenly you discover something. You have no longer any desire, any temp	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	tation to dig into the Earth to grow food or to gaze at a limitless land and call it your own, no, no. You just go on and on and on repeating this process over the centuries over and over and suddenly you make a grand discovery. You have a mercantile heritage! You are a merchant. You are known as a usurer, a man with secret resources, a witch, a pawnbroker, a sheenie, a makie and a kike!	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	Jesus Ortiz: [long pause] You really some teacher, Mr. Nazerman. You really, really 's the greatest.	[19:04]
asciilifeform	(and the impression i got was that the dunbaricity was the ~only~ thing that made the mechanics halfway plausible..?)	[19:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00043154 = 6.9478 BTC [+]	[19:04]
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mircea_popescu	it is as plausible as the notion that "mecanicity" makes perpetuum mobile more plausible.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	sure, plausible, if you're the plausing kind.	[19:05]
asciilifeform	l0l	[19:05]
asciilifeform	incidentally, the final nail in the coffin of perpetuum mobile wasn't really driven in until emmy noether..	[19:06]
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asciilifeform	so it is not the best example of 'plainly impossible to any thinking person'	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	it wasn't intended as that.	[19:07]
asciilifeform	mainly speaking from an ancient pet peeve of mine, where folks who slept through noether and even carnot often map '2nd law of thermo' to a childhood-received 'who does not work, does not eat' and think of it as a 1:1 map	[19:08]
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asciilifeform	whereas it is anything but	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	ask someone why shouldn't they fuck their sister next time you want an angry puzzled man.	[19:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my understanding is that folks who didn't get 'westermack-effected' for whatever reason, having sisters, are busy fucking them at this very minute	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	doubt it tbh	[19:12]
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asciilifeform	(as pictured for mass pr0nification in 'game of thrones' etc.)	[19:12]
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asciilifeform	there was a reddit 'ama' thread linked here last year, where sisterfuckers chimed in by the battalions	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	next you're gonna be quoting wikipedia at me.	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	what is this, the future ?	[19:13]
asciilifeform	(unless they are all philipinos...)	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	how about they were all bitcoin experts from "the community" of derps that never saw a bitcoin ?	[19:14]
asciilifeform	this particular subject being 'phillippinized' would be almost equally strange as were the reports genuine	[19:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49000 @ 0.00043412 = 21.2719 BTC [+] {3}	[19:15]
asciilifeform	at any rate, i'm not an inquisitor and cannot comment re: whether the sisters were fucked in reality, or in imagination, and if so, whos	[19:16]
asciilifeform	only that the subject is of perennial interest to homo redditicus	[19:16]
asciilifeform	(and to fans of 'thrones')	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	which leads back to the point.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	perpetuum mobile is also of perennial interest to the same apeish overaged teen mind.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	for the exact same reasons, too.	[19:18]
asciilifeform	at least once was.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	right, fashions change.	[19:18]
asciilifeform	what reasons specifically ?	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	specifically eh ? what do you want of me.	[19:19]
asciilifeform	'for the exact same reasons'	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	what reasons specifically drive children to immitate speech sounds ?	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	ah that. well, poking around at the world, right ? same reason they stick things in their mouth.	[19:19]
asciilifeform	i was expecting an analogy between receiving free energy from the aether and hypothetical easy short-circuit solution to problem of what to fuck	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	fucking is not easy by definition.	[19:20]
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asciilifeform	'easy' is perhaps not right word	[19:20]
asciilifeform	'accessible' ?	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	if you think about it, men tend to value "fuck me then i take off" girls the most, coworkers less than that and wives even less.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck would want a sister on his head.	[19:22]
asciilifeform	might want to ask the aficionados	[19:23]
*	asciilifeform has no sisters	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	ah, no, we're discussing economics here. the ship goes uphil like any othjer ship going uphill.	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	affections not related.	[19:23]
asciilifeform	speaking of!	[19:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7973 @ 0.00043809 = 3.4929 BTC [+]	[19:25]
asciilifeform	when i moved here, as a boy, i was constantly puzzled as to why whole wash.,d.c. region is covered in signs depicting... a ship going uphill! >> http://www.lehi-ut.gov/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/snap.a1.gif	[19:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GdubX2 )	[19:25]
asciilifeform	poor sailboat is just short of sailing off the cliff.	[19:25]
asciilifeform	(edge of the earth?)	[19:25]
asciilifeform	(turned out, the sign means 'neighborhood watch!' and depicts a crossed-out 'spy vs spy' figure)	[19:26]
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asciilifeform	back to the sisters, my understanding is that if 'westermarck' fails, they work just as well as arranged-wives and the like	[19:27]
asciilifeform	(female, for whatever reason isn't successfully escaping, etc.)	[19:27]
*	asciilifeform not expert	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	i dunno about that.	[19:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54409 @ 0.00040788 = 22.1923 BTC [-] {2}	[19:34]
shinohai	Music to code by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UEyF1wjvU	[19:34]
assbot	Andrés Segovia - Old Recordings (Bach,Scarlatti,Sor,Granados,Tàrrega,Malats,Mendelssohn) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdvrtm )	[19:34]
decimation	yeah I don't get how this 'black church postal' guy accomplished anything	[19:34]
asciilifeform	decimation: iirc thread was about 'police station postal' of about the same time	[19:35]
asciilifeform	(mostly newsblackouted)	[19:35]
decimation	the linked diatribe was the black church guy	[19:35]
decimation	since yanked but here https://web.archive.org/web/20150620135047/http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt	[19:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1GdvC7L )	[19:35]
decimation	his logic went somethingl ike 1.) found out black people suck 2.) "We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.	[19:36]
decimation	"	[19:36]
decimation	3.) now what?	[19:36]
cazalla	profit	[19:36]
decimation	I guess	[19:36]
asciilifeform	3) ??? 4) profit!!11!!	[19:36]
decimation	even if all he wanted was to increase the 'white team' 'score' at the expense of the 'black team' - it's not at all obvious that this was accomplished	[19:38]
cazalla	having read his little manifesto, the kid is without a doubt a /pol/ack (muh rhodesia, jews etc etc)	[19:38]
decimation	cazalla: it's like someone read moldbug but was unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	oh i thought it was the police station guy	[19:39]
decimation	if anything, this only gives the 'witch hunters' even more ammo	[19:40]
asciilifeform	decimation: the 'alt right'-sphere's fixation with rhodesia is - afaik - definitively traceable to mr mold	[19:40]
decimation	agreed	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	srsly ?	[19:40]
decimation	in modern times, I suspect that's the case, yes	[19:41]
asciilifeform	decimation: i was arguing even beyond 'unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless' to 'clinically retarded'	[19:41]
cazalla	you can always find a national anthem of rhodesia thread on /pol/ too, lyrics and all lol	[19:42]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I would agree with that too	[19:42]
asciilifeform	for instance, it is widely (afaik) known that the highest-scoring 'postal' in usa used a bottle of ordinary petrol as the weapon	[19:42]
decimation	is that the guy in the 1930's	[19:42]
asciilifeform	yet the schmucks insist on demonstrating their (lack of) marksmanship with grandfather's pistol or whatnot	[19:42]
asciilifeform	decimation: 90s	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	decimation http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ count ?	[19:43]
assbot	A very unfair perspective. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvasv )	[19:43]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque	[19:44]
trinque	bahaha this meme that if any whites suck, it's the fault of teh blacks	[19:44]
trinque	I read about as much of his little manifesto as I could be bothered to	[19:44]
decimation	mircea_popescu: I think that was after moldbug's article	[19:44]
trinque	sorry, blacks didn't do walmart and country music	[19:44]
decimation	I always figured you were inspired by him	[19:44]
asciilifeform	trinque: notice that it does not even occur to the tard to kill one of the ~actual~ architects of his misery	[19:45]
decimation	http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/04/open-letter-to-open-minded-progressives.html < moldbug mentions here	[19:45]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: An open letter to open-minded progressives (part 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvozY )	[19:45]
trinque	asciilifeform: of course not; guy's capable of "everything is because of the outgroup" and nothing more	[19:46]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah that's my point, even if he has decided black people suck, it's quite a leap to think that randomly murdering them is going to help anyone's lot	[19:46]
trinque	is that not the most primordial rationale of all time?	[19:46]
asciilifeform	mr mold is an incorrigible subscriber to the particular flavour of mental wankery described as 'resistance through culture' in one of mircea_popescu's articles	[19:46]
decimation	yeah he certainly does not advocate 'resistance through action'	[19:47]
trinque	asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt?	[19:47]
decimation	which is why it was so amusing that he was booted from that programming conference	[19:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu might say that it is because mr mold has no balls. i would say that i cannot comment on whether he has balls, but will point out that having a brain is a handicap if contemplating active resistance to usg, without support of foreign army, from inside its walls	[19:48]
decimation	http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist.html < here was yarvin's big article on rhodesia	[19:48]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: The country that used to exist ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdxjCf )	[19:48]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes, if 'having a brain' means seeing about two moves ahead - would put a damper on 'action'	[19:49]
asciilifeform	i will describe, for the benefit of n00bz, the typical career path of 'let's resist usg through action' in usgland: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044	[19:49]
assbot	Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.	[19:49]
asciilifeform	the non-retarded version of this, where a fella spends 20 years in his garage building the 'strela', afaik has not yet happened.	[19:50]
decimation	asciilifeform: of course that man would probably meet a similar end	[19:50]
decimation	but is more likely to achieve some of his ends	[19:50]
asciilifeform	end result, best case, probably would resemble http://trilema.com/nobody-could-have-foreseen-their-using-a-plane-like-a-rocket	[19:51]
assbot	Nobody could have foreseen their using a plane like a rocket on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvZl2 )	[19:51]
asciilifeform	best-known instance is probably 'killdozer'	[19:51]
asciilifeform	and notice, there was no army of killdozers to follow heevmeyer.	[19:51]
decimation	is that the police station guy?	[19:52]
asciilifeform	!s killdozer	[19:52]
assbot	4 results for 'killdozer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=killdozer	[19:52]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2014#691525	[19:52]
assbot	Logged on 28-05-2014 00:38:27; punkman: as far as rampages go, the bulldozer guy was pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA	[19:52]
decimation	oh yeah him heh	[19:52]
asciilifeform	fact is, there is not any meaningful resistance to usg on own turf. there are criminals who imagine themselves resisting, e.g., mexican mafia, but actually live in symbiosis with 'war on drugs'	[19:54]
asciilifeform	just as there were smugglers in ussr	[19:54]
asciilifeform	some of whom imagined themselves 'resistance'	[19:54]
decimation	asciilifeform: no, in fact said mexicans end up justifying budgets for even more usg	[19:55]
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mircea_popescu	decimation not that i know. link to what inspired me maybe ?	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	oh there it is ty.	[19:56]
decimation	yeah the second one in 2007	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	holy shit man. a quote from wikipedia and the next mention of the word in comments ?!	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	this guy's got a pretty fantastic racket. i hope i won't next hear i've heard about bitcoin from curtis yarvin.	[19:57]
decimation	mircea_popescu: look at this link: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1170054	[19:58]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 22:44:56; decimation: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist.html < here was yarvin's big article on rhodesia	[19:58]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt? << it's a very specific locus to east european "anticomunism" of the contemptible kind.	[19:58]
mircea_popescu	not so unlike all the people who were planning to kill hitler, but never got around to it.	[19:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: a few months ago, i reread a selection of mr mold, and it struck me as loudly, profanely stinking of 'resistance through culture'	[19:58]
mircea_popescu	decimation aok	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform understand, nothing in nature comes without a cost. flying bugs are not by this fact more fit than worms. even if flying is kinda cool.	[19:59]
asciilifeform	almost like he was laying groundwork to turn into a top contender for 'was planning to kill hitler' after the fact	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	intelligence also comes at a cost.	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	ones in charge of managing it.	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform apparently that's working, at least to some degree, if people seriously consider him an influence on anything.	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	decimation ah ok i see what you mean.	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	alright, fine assumption, but i had no idea.	[20:01]
asciilifeform	mr mold could be described as a founder of a very depressive sort of 'dismal science' - where a great many folks with no cultural literacy to speak of, no remotely-plausible avenue for constructive action, were led to realize approximately how their civilization anally raped itself	[20:03]
asciilifeform	granted he only shows a kind of silhouette of the monster (all he personally is able to see with own eyes)	[20:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.0004106 = 4.4755 BTC [+]	[20:03]
asciilifeform	but the tentacles are painted clearly enough	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	like "In fact, what Power really means is that a government "cannot survive indefinitely" if it defies the wishes of the international community. Ie, of, well - Power. Here we have the ultimate cause of Rhodesia's destruction. I believe this is a clear and undisputed fact."	[20:04]
asciilifeform	mr mold was raised by diplomats and knows well what 'international community' shibboleth actually means	[20:04]
asciilifeform	this is clear from the rest of the body of work	[20:04]
decimation	yeah, if anything his strongest indictments are against usg's foreign policy 'complex'	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	Todd, basically, was the Universalist to end all Universalists.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha what!	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	ok the similarities are unnerving	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck happened here.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	so i write an article with a cultural grounding introduction referencing newman and proceed to the historical discussion, some guy writes (a decade prior) an article using tacitus in thesame function and casually mentioning garfield todd	[20:08]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: next you'll complain of melted brain on account of ancient chinese having had, almost word for word, euclid's gcd algo	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	one'd thing there is some room for personal taste in praxis and stylistics already	[20:09]
decimation	well, as yarvin himself wrote, "he truth, being true, is accessible to all - though not all will get it all."	[20:10]
asciilifeform	i for one, when first encountered mircea_popescu's articles, scarfed'em up on account of a feeling of 'like mr mold but without the latter's impotent thrashing and cultural illiteracy'	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	the telegraph obligingly deleted the linked reference to how the senator's daughter was raped by the praetorian guards, so now there's no reference.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	fucktarded press	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	"What would Tacitus make of this? Frankly, I'm not sure he could even process it." << hot damned...	[20:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00041447 = 9.1183 BTC [+]	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	i think tacitus lived in a marble tub his entire life, in a museum in illyricum.	[20:11]
asciilifeform	moldbug, i will point out, speaks not one language save his native engl. that he was able to reconstruct even a semblance of coherent picture of anything while sitting in the anglo junkyard, is remarkable by itself	[20:12]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes, what you describe is roughly what attracted me to #b-a	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	that is a point.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	"the battle between missionaries and settlers, which ended of course in the victory of the former, was the great conflict of colonialism." << this is broadly coirrect. in the us, decolonialization took the form of "dry states", the missionaries fought against settlers brandied as "the bar lobby" there.	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	i wonder where he picked up the tidbit.	[20:14]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: his entire thesis is that the more demented sects of puritanism merged together, shed the unnecessary legs and wings, and turned into usg as we know it (or rather, the original intellectual underpinnings thereof)	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	(and yes, i fundamentally do not like the guy because he reads exactly like andrei plesu, gabriel liiceanu or an entire smattering of entirely identical superficially "cultured", inept and impotent romanian "intellectuals" of the "Resistence throguh culture" brand).	[20:16]
decimation	asciilifeform: I kinda arrived at this thesis from a theological perspective earlier, which is also why moldbug appealed	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform as in http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com.ar/2007/05/bdh-ov-conflict_07.html ?	[20:17]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: The BDH-OV conflict ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEyCU7 )	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	i remember reading that at some point and not being impressed. prolly the log has my expletives, ima look.	[20:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the question that is of interest perhaps only to me, is whether mr mold has this 'smell' on account of character defect, or because he lives in a plesu-shaped box that he found no way of escaping	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	oh, you know the guy ?	[20:17]
asciilifeform	from mircea_popescu's articles	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	oh oh	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	did you read the one about the german/romanian nobel prize woman debate ?	[20:18]
asciilifeform	dont think so	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	it was such fine closure.	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	;;google site:trilema.com herta muller	[20:18]
gribble	критика и самокритика on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: ; Tipologiile homosexualitatii on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: ; October 2010 on Trilema - A blog by (1 more message)	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	da fuck	[20:18]
asciilifeform	thing about mr mold is that the impotent thrashing is very much that of the prisoner 'turning inward', as pictured in 'chess novella'	[20:19]
asciilifeform	the 'cost of intelligence', as mentioned earlier by mircea_popescu, is that the clever fella is not ever content to buy rifle, weld some steel on an old van, shoot out a police station window, and die	[20:20]
asciilifeform	because any moron can do that	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	^	[20:20]
asciilifeform	but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	it's not cowardice per se, even though the drill sargeant thinks so. and the opposite view is not "deliberate stupidity"	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well it was here site:trilema.com herta muller	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	oops i mean here : http://www.romanialibera.ro/cultura/dialogul-herta-muller-gabriel-liiceanu--moment-istoric-pentru-cultura-romana-200986	[20:21]
assbot	Romania libera - stiri iesite din tipar - actualitate, investigatii, politica, cultura, diaspora, video, anunturi de mica publicitate	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	but meanwhile it got beleeted. because press, ofcourse.	[20:21]
asciilifeform	memoryholed.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	yeah. woman wiped the floor with the guy.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	and this was obviously not acceptable, being how inept as he may be, and a fraud as he may be, nevertheless he is the palatial "scientist"	[20:22]
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mircea_popescu	a less interested, more naive me kept no records.	[20:23]
asciilifeform	'palatial scientist' only function on own turf, where he has a direct line to the palatial executioner. like lysenko did	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	well it is a romanian newspaper.	[20:23]
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*	jurov runs crying to mircea_popsecu "i broke eulora again and chetty isn't around!!!"	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	now you've done it!	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	gotta wait till she comes by.	[20:27]
jurov	:)	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	i'm not gonna run it up myself because she was instrumented to test i dun recall what and i fear messing it up.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	in other news, a more powerful me today has the intel dept ready to fix it for him! ha-HA! https://archive.is/Tpk6O	[20:28]
assbot	Dialogul Herta Muller-Gabriel Liiceanu, moment istoric pentru cultura română \| Romania Libera ... ( http://bit.ly/1NegGLB )	[20:28]
jurov	yea, we'd miss chetty	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ^ if you feel like it.	[20:28]
asciilifeform	neato!	[20:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22750 @ 0.00041447 = 9.4292 BTC [+]	[20:29]
jurov	how you instrumented her?	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	who what ?	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform guy notably claims that he was resisting communism by not registering his typewriter.	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	fancy that.	[20:29]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: would you believe, that type of character existed in su by the battallion	[20:30]
jurov	how did you instrument chetty?	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	im sure the fed is resisting socialism by not reporting all it prints to washington	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	jurov she did, the server	[20:30]
asciilifeform	and the basic root is http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1170141	[20:30]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform course i'd believe. even met some	[20:30]
jurov	i was jesting	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	but you weren't instrumented for it!	[20:31]
jurov	:(	[20:31]
asciilifeform	thinking folks, faced with 'chop wood in magadan or prostitute for the party' tend to end up 'getting down on knees, ready to please'	[20:31]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes, imagine that you were a 'closet dissenter' working for the fed. the most 'reform' you could get away with would be symbolic at best	[20:31]
asciilifeform	the exceptions - we don't even get to hear about.	[20:31]
asciilifeform	(because - how?)	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform in any case, i had to spend half my fucking life yelling at people that "the difference between stupid and smart is that stupid can't be smart, BUT SMART CAN BE STUPID. IF YOU'RE UNWILLING TO EVER BE STUPID YOUR SMART'S JUST ANOTHER FLAVOUR OF DUMB!1111"	[20:32]
decimation	but I would also note that 'come be an inside reformer' is also a usg recruitment trick	[20:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: for how long would you personally be willing to 'run stupid on emulator' ?	[20:32]
asciilifeform	keep in mind that this is considerably more than is ever asked of stupid folks	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	for how long would you personally be willing to run a chip on the breadboard ?	[20:32]
asciilifeform	not sure how analogous	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	and no, stupid folks are perpetually asked to run smart on emulator, and they don't even have one.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	hence " yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules."	[20:33]
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mircea_popescu	if intelligence is not an option, it is not intelligence.	[20:34]
asciilifeform	vulp!	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	vulp', all hipster like	[20:34]
asciilifeform	pronounced the way davout did, or more like 'gulp' ?	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	it's pronounced "phtephen"	[20:34]
asciilifeform	!up ben_vulp`	[20:34]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: fact is, folks who are placed in the unenviable position of 'emulate stupid' still try to use their mind. just like a prisoner in solitary cell, who theoretically does not really need legs for much of anything, will still wiggle them around	[20:38]
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asciilifeform	the result, in best case, tends to be something like mr mold.	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	just as long as he doesn't wiggle them into kicks to his shn	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	your type of intelligent person is not unlike the guard that shoots himself on the third day, because bored.	[20:39]
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asciilifeform	phun phakt: when i worked in u.s. army, a guard on the campus did just that	[20:39]
asciilifeform	whether it was on account of boredom, i never learned	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	not a very good guard.	[20:40]
asciilifeform	the difficulty of 'emulate stupid for the rest of your life' is likely the reason for the infamous u.s. police dept. which figured in a lawsuit where some schmuck was rejected from police academ for scoring too high on 'iq test'	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	the difficulty's not in question. the difficulty of finding wet cunts biweekly for the rest of your life is even more burdensome	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	what of it.	[20:41]
asciilifeform	incidentally, here in usaschwitz we have a plague called 'overqualification'	[20:42]
asciilifeform	where god help you if you have, say, uni degree and history of serious technical work, and suddenly need to make ends meet by digging trenches, washing dishes, etc	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, it existed on the porn sets too.	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	most people wouldn't hire girls what went to school for the longest time.	[20:43]
asciilifeform	-- unless you can fabricate a convincing 'blue collar' work history and biography (in which case, work for cia...) you're phucked	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#813861 << the previous pass through that thing if anyone gas.	[20:44]
assbot	Logged on 29-08-2014 00:38:19; mircea_popescu: "This should be reason enough for anyone to avoid taking up cudgels on behalf of either."	[20:44]
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asciilifeform	^ speaking of which, brings back to the point of whether mr mold is a disinfo agent. not that i can say definitively, but imho the best argument that he is not, is the difficulty of formulating a picture of a hypothetical 'moldbug minus the restraint' who does ~not~ advocate inaction	[20:46]
asciilifeform	what would this even look like?	[20:46]
asciilifeform	the question of why he is still alive and walking free in usaschwitz would naturally invite itself	[20:46]
asciilifeform	(leaving aside, even, the question of just ~what kind~ of non-inaction he would advocate..)	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-am-not-a-white-nationalist/#selection-933.0-933.687 << related, mostly because of the "The world belongs to the active, not to the thoughtful."	[20:48]
assbot	"Why I am not a white nationalist" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEBrV7 )	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	yes, it is better to be smart and active than it is to be stupid and active.	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise, being smart embodies no benefit.	[20:48]
asciilifeform	e.coli may not be very clever, but they have 'active' down pat.	[20:48]
asciilifeform	so perhaps world belongs - to them.	[20:49]
asciilifeform	(or to cockroaches?)	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	i don't seem to be much bothered by either, but sure.	[20:49]
decimation	only bothered if they manage to overpower your similiarly active immune system	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	which is in no part active because an intelligent being somewhere has failed to feed it crap for decades now	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	no small part*	[20:52]
asciilifeform	which brings back to the 'die in the van' thing	[20:52]
asciilifeform	and, for that matter, last week's question about coherent laser light	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	"Ian Smith could never have achieved any political prominence in prewar Britain, because his origins were decidedly middle-class": what, unlike Ramsay MacDonald, who was the bastard son of a farm servant, and twice PM?	[20:52]
asciilifeform	(as in, what makes it more interesting from an engineering perspective than white light)	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	first comment, too.	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	must suck to not have a clue.	[20:53]
asciilifeform	and the question of what differentiates a proper war from an idiot jaquerie	[20:53]
asciilifeform	(of which europe saw fuck knows how many, and all ended exactly the same way)	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	ever read caragiale's story of 1907 ?	[20:57]
asciilifeform	dont think so	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	it is excellent, on one hand because the man is supremely qualified - he is, no doubts about it, he who wrote romania's software, since the kingdom days - and because he actually lived it and saw it, and its context. top notch historical primary source.	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2012/o-bucatica-de-istorie-sau-1907-din-primavara-pina-in-toamna-de-ion-luca-caragiale/	[20:59]
assbot	O bucatica de istorie, sau 1907 din primavara pina in toamna, de Ion Luca Caragiale on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TECwfC )	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	it was memory holed at the time, and not well known since.	[20:59]
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mircea_popescu	!up cosmo	[21:00]
-assbot-	You voiced cosmo for 30 minutes.	[21:00]
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cosmo	my what great service	[21:00]
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jurov	yes, amazing	[21:01]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[21:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50208 @ 0.00040752 = 20.4608 BTC [-] {3}	[21:01]
cosmo	is bitshares legit	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	!s bitshares	[21:03]
assbot	30 results for 'bitshares' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitshares	[21:03]
cosmo	i like what they're doing but i'm not sure how their 'shares' or coins or whatever are minted/distributed	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	you're too new here to say "i"	[21:04]
cosmo	:( okay	[21:04]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00040558 = 7.199 BTC [-]	[21:05]
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cosmo	all in on ppc	[21:07]
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cazalla	cosmo, whether bitshares, ppc, ethereum's ether etc etc, they all have one thing in common	[21:09]
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cosmo	and what's that cazalla ?	[21:09]
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cazalla	its creators and followers are super keen to sell their 2.0 creation for bitcoin	[21:10]
cosmo	:D	[21:10]
cosmo	bitshares seems to be doing an interesting job with pegged assets	[21:11]
cosmo	and btc-e minting 5m ppc? something's up, i'll ride along	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	that reads like it was written by cosmo.	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	put some substance in the vapid verbiage oy.	[21:11]
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cosmo	at least you're not the kickban type	[21:11]
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cazalla	mircea_popescu, lol so is the contined "x is doing something interesting"	[21:13]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[21:13]
cazalla	continued even.. anyway cosmo forget the rest.. get ur bitcoin on	[21:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00040558 = 1.8859 BTC [-]	[21:14]
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trinque	asciilifeform: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531268 << "Ugly hack was added to dieharder-3.31.1-r1." hehehe	[21:18]
assbot	Bug 531268 – app-crypt/dieharder-3.31.1 - In file included from bits.c:7: /usr/include/unistd.h:1043:20: error: unknown type name 'intptr_t' ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEE9tE )	[21:18]
trinque	I'm beginning to see that mathemetician-code is a thing.	[21:19]
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asciilifeform	what am i looking at	[21:19]
asciilifeform	(other than corpse of 'diehard'. which is obvious)	[21:19]
trinque	asciilifeform: I lobbied the maintainer to patch the thing so it'd build	[21:19]
asciilifeform	all ~i~ know is:	[21:20]
asciilifeform	$ ls -l /usr/portage/distfiles/dieharder-3.31.1.tgz	[21:20]
asciilifeform	-rw-rw-r-- 1 portage portage 1149780 Oct 14 2011 /usr/portage/distfiles/dieharder-3.31.1.tgz	[21:20]
asciilifeform	it built on by box and runs there.	[21:20]
trinque	older glibc?	[21:20]
asciilifeform	at some point since - i'm told - stopped	[21:20]
asciilifeform	so culprit is to be found, and fed into woodchipper	[21:20]
asciilifeform	all other solutions are half-measures.	[21:20]
trinque	sounds like the build system for it is totally fucked	[21:22]
asciilifeform	glibc belongs in woodchipper regardless	[21:22]
trinque	one more on the pile of "needs to be rewritten by non-mathemetician"	[21:22]
asciilifeform	it has been praying, begging for it, for years	[21:22]
asciilifeform	fuck that. 'mathematician code' or not, it FUCKING WORKED IN 2011	[21:22]
trinque	doesn't mean it was any good then	[21:22]
asciilifeform	and does ~not~ today on no fault of its own	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	"Large areas of X, including entire major cities, have been ethnically cleansed by the departure of class-B people fleeing class-A violence."	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	fucking bullshit. the dicklets are fleeing to escape their own ~sexual~ impotence.	[21:22]
trinque	asciilifeform: ah I don't buy that; the hairbrained thing it was doing is in that bug thread, I think	[21:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: come to usa incognito (parachute?) sometime, i'll take you on a tour of 'what they escaped'	[21:23]
*	asciilifeform took the 'grandest' version of this tour once, in an old armoured wagen	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?	[21:24]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: boston?	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	i dun need you to show me the port quarter. can find on own	[21:24]
asciilifeform	do find.	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	the incident in question where they assaulted some schmuky blond kid (and the police had to come - i wouldn't have bothered) was iirc alabama	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	maybe south carolina. thereabouts	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00040558 = 5.7592 BTC [-]	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	they are running away from their own sexual impotence.	[21:26]
asciilifeform	breaking everything not made of unbreakables and pissing/shitting/throwing fast 'food' garbage where one stands is 'sexual potence' ?	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	saying "nigger" is trolling ?	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	depends where.	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	violence got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. like 13 yo girls claiming they don't want to associate with boys because they smell, rather than the obvious "my vagina's not yet developed enough"	[21:27]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: didja visit the charred ruins left over from the folks for whom 'violence has nothing to do with it' burned to the ground ?	[21:28]
*	assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes	[21:29]
asciilifeform	i can admit some explanation of 'why burned' but to say that 'had nothing to do with it' is a tall glass to drink	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	i honestly, if i had to pick, would side with the "evil niggers" and beat the shit out of the pesky internet-addled "civilised" folk.	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	they're abominable.	[21:29]
asciilifeform	welcome to zimbabwe ?	[21:29]
asciilifeform	iirc they did this	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	nah, different demographics.	[21:29]
asciilifeform	how? slower modems ?	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	ironically, in zimbabwe i'd have definitely shot some mugabewites.	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	no, the boers were the hardy folk there.	[21:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00040558 = 2.8796 BTC [-]	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	shoulda shot the whole lot of niggers up.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: thing is, taking a side requires there ~being~ a side.	[21:30]
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mircea_popescu	myeah.	[21:30]
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asciilifeform	ussr tried to take 'the black side', result was comical	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	the discussion i'm derrinding, with "A's and B's" pretends there is	[21:30]
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mircea_popescu	and i am pointing out that in that story... the author's side is abominable, and the story doesn't even credibly flow as he claims.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	mr mold, for his part, does eventually admit that the black mobs were an instrument of somebody quite else	[21:31]
*	assbot removes voice from cosmo	[21:31]
asciilifeform	(a thesis he stole from 'the death of the american city')	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	im fully unconvinced by all this complicated, farcical, cinquecento-ish "string of instruments" puppet theatre.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	i read italian, but i'm not an italian.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, plenty of usians are becoming quite end-of-world italians these days	[21:32]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2015#1170296 <<< perhaps this explains the recent avalanche black cock tumblr images?	[21:32]
assbot	Logged on 21-06-2015 00:20:25; mircea_popescu: you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	cazalla was like a decade ago.	[21:32]
cazalla	well what do they say? abscence makes the heart grow fonder? :P	[21:33]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	look, there is absolutely no way you will sell me on the theory that the leaving male is anything but the sexual inferior.	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	nature doesn't change while i sleep.	[21:34]
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mircea_popescu	sure, every individual can do whatever the fuck they please for whatever random reasons, but when you're trying to discuss migration in statistical terms like he tries to discuss it - it's always a sexual matter.	[21:35]
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cazalla	reminds me of the hamstrung kid in high school who hits back at his bullies but is inevitably bullied by teachers as well for responding	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	forget for a moment all the counting of "how many niggers ate white babies" or w/e and riddle me this :	[21:35]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it isn't a boxing match if one of the fellas in the ring has a pistol. the hordes had usg on their side	[21:35]
decimation	so moving to the ghetto and having your children play with needles on the street is what a real man would do?	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	how many white boys got sent upstate and ended up pimping out the female guards ?	[21:35]
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mircea_popescu	and how many black boys are doing a shrem impersonation with "of course plea bargain" etc ?	[21:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: aaaactually quite a few	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	decimation yes. a real man would make more children.	[21:36]
decimation	heh yeah	[21:36]
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decimation	okay.	[21:36]
asciilifeform	!up wiz_	[21:36]
*	assbot gives voice to wiz_	[21:36]
asciilifeform	^ winner	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	it is pretty by definition. what else ?	[21:36]
decimation	I'm making children	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	a real cuisinart would make more cake batter.	[21:37]
decimation	but I have no reason to see them raised in a seething cesspool of crime	[21:37]
asciilifeform	again you folks all lose and e.coli wins	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	im not judging you in any sense. this is a sociology argument	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	why not ?	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	let them go into the cesspool and die.	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	make more, you'll end up with some better ones.	[21:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'die' is not worst outcome of this hypothetical	[21:37]
cazalla	to make this many kids though one would need to engage in a little rape eh	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	you're not their mother. your job is to get them killed.	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	cazalla you'd be surprised how many women are ready to go, in places like teh usistan.	[21:38]
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cazalla	you're gonna wanna double wrap it with such women though? defeats the purpose of fucking them to begin with	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	well, jack off next to them and release flies from your flies jar then	[21:39]
asciilifeform	l0l did we do the fly jar here?	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	might not be a real man, but it is pretty awesome crab-like	[21:40]
asciilifeform	i distinctly recall!	[21:40]
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mircea_popescu	wonky freenode today eh	[21:40]
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asciilifeform	monkey at ft meade was slow to change blown fuse.	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	i saw the hardware kind recently. was a surprise	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	they were russian made.	[21:41]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: edisonian 'screw fuse' ?	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	yuppers	[21:41]
asciilifeform	or the resetable kind	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	exact same ceramic and cheap zamac caps	[21:42]
asciilifeform	guess what, until recently i lived in a dwelling in usa with ~just such~ fuse	[21:42]
asciilifeform	located at the top of a stairwell to nowhere in a deep cellar, top of staircase bricked up (near the base, a ~working~ toilet in the middle of bare cement, incidentally)	[21:43]
asciilifeform	plenty of folks here still live in such places, because just about every shop sells these fuses.	[21:43]
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mircea_popescu	odd	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	the automatics are both better cheaper and easer to use	[21:44]
asciilifeform	but someone would have to install them	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	they even sell screw-in automatics	[21:44]
asciilifeform	in those 1920s shitpits	[21:44]
asciilifeform	the screw-ins tend to be taller than edisonians, and panel won't close	[21:44]
asciilifeform	this is illegal per building code.	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	bwahahaha	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	get out.	[21:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu knew story would come to just such an observation, didn't he	[21:45]
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mircea_popescu	so they inspect ?	[21:45]
asciilifeform	i witnessed inspections. did not know if 'fuse box closes' was on the list.	[21:45]
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mircea_popescu	you have to appreciate i come from a land where a fire drill would have been laughed out of town	[21:45]
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mircea_popescu	and moved to a similar one.	[21:45]
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asciilifeform	aha	[21:46]
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mircea_popescu	i recently discussed matters of student housing with a girl the right age from there	[21:46]
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mircea_popescu	and i explain that yes, at the time girls just lived in whichever room, usually moving around for a day or a week or whatever by their friendship or allegiances or who had bfs over	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	romanian campus, hs and college, was always basicalyl one large slumbert party.	[21:46]
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mircea_popescu	apparently in the us this wouldn't ever work because... inspections	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	and at that point my film broke. nigga... say wut ?! who's going to go knocking on your door ?!	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	and she was like... whywould they knock	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	such is the weird of socialism.	[21:47]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the dorm i lived in still had relics from the time of sex-segregated floors of bldg: bathrooms tiled in the traditional sickly pink or blue signifiers	[21:49]
asciilifeform	(in my time the separation was by left-right wings of floor)	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	generally the buildings are segregated, yes.	[21:49]
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asciilifeform	as in whole bldg ?	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	i suspect this is mostly because human males do not actually wish to sleep with human females.	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[21:49]
asciilifeform	this went out of style in usa some 50yrs ago	[21:49]
asciilifeform	but is sop in sov world, yes	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	i doubt to anyone's benefit, but okay.	[21:50]
*	asciilifeform did not cancel it himself, only watched	[21:50]
asciilifeform	actually mircea_popescu has mega-point:	[21:51]
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*	asciilifeform lived for a spell as 'illegal agent' in the gurlz' wing, was not esp. quiet place	[21:52]
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mircea_popescu	i don't think there exists a culture in which boys past the age of sexual maturity show any preference whatever to sleep with the women, just like girls of all ages much prefer to.	[21:53]
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mircea_popescu	!up JPT	[21:54]
-assbot-	You voiced JPT for 30 minutes.	[21:54]
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mircea_popescu	!up decimati1n	[21:54]
-assbot-	You voiced decimati1n for 30 minutes.	[21:54]
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mircea_popescu	!up ericp4	[21:56]
-assbot-	You voiced ericp4 for 30 minutes.	[21:56]
*	assbot gives voice to ericp4	[21:56]
mircea_popescu	reading comments on unqualified reservations, it occurs to me the main reason this guy got to be popular was being so amply wrong about so many things.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	gives people something to talk about	[21:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00040352 = 1.3316 BTC [-] {2}	[22:04]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169687 << not really for this purpose. needs the cpu noise.	[22:18]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 18:16:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169570 << actually works great on desktops. peripheral wiring (and power line) - excellent antennae	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169705 << pretty great	[22:20]
assbot	Logged on 20-06-2015 18:29:13; asciilifeform: (there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'	[22:20]
asciilifeform	only if cpu is the objective	[22:20]
asciilifeform	if kbd, ethernet, etc - no	[22:20]
asciilifeform	in other nyooz, i'm at the tail end of some very gnarly therealbitcoin surgery	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	well sure.	[22:21]
asciilifeform	no one should even dare to think of using what i'm about to drop in the ml, anywhere close to the front lines, without ~several~ literate folks having first read it.	[22:21]
asciilifeform	(this goes for all patches, but most of all this one. it affects virtually every major subsystem)	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	so then why make it ?	[22:22]
asciilifeform	also presupposes dns-zappers part 1 through 3, without which it is meaningless	[22:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the objective is total removal of dns such that static build becomes possible.	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	that ends up touching everything ?!	[22:23]
asciilifeform	see for yourself. grep your tree, case-insensitively, for 'dns' and then for 'lookup'	[22:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00040987 = 1.7624 BTC [+]	[22:24]
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ben_vulpes	!up ben_vulp` << 'tis the french pronounciation	[22:25]
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ben_vulpes	yes, it is better to be smart and active than it is to be stupid and active. << balanced against that "impotent activity"	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	the thing is, derp sitting at home and seeking supportive subreddits for his drawings is never going to figure out he's fucked in the head.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile guy trying to piss on electric fence won't stay stupid long	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	one way or another.	[22:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15952 @ 0.00040778 = 6.5049 BTC [-] {2}	[22:33]
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asciilifeform	aaaand...	[22:39]
asciilifeform	achtung, panzers!	[22:39]
asciilifeform	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000100.html	[22:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ez99vv )	[22:39]
asciilifeform	'(EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke!'	[22:39]
ben_vulpes	ooh	[22:40]
asciilifeform	fully static build should now be theoretically possible.	[22:41]
mod6	oh nice.	[22:42]
*	mod6 looks	[22:42]
asciilifeform	needs testing	[22:42]
asciilifeform	not simply 'does it fetch blocks' (it does)	[22:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00041447 = 1.9895 BTC [+]	[22:42]
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asciilifeform	but specifically of several affected pieces such as -addnode	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if the irc falls over for whatever reason this thing is dead.	[22:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not meant to rely on rc	[22:43]
asciilifeform	irc	[22:43]
asciilifeform	but to use as we discussed	[22:43]
asciilifeform	with config file	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	so this is actually something of purely academic interest - shoud not be run as is period.	[22:43]
asciilifeform	irc is only in there because presently this is very easy means of discovering mostly-ungavinized nodes	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	ya	[22:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: actually this is the only version that could conceivably function on uclibc/pogo	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	but only after we get a seed list	[22:44]
asciilifeform	hence we need seeds	[22:44]
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asciilifeform	it is also one minor patch away from having all magic/hardcoded net addrs stripped away	[22:45]
asciilifeform	and hence long-term rom-weaponizable.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	nb,	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ?	[22:46]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: you now have homework. it being, to read & actually grok the sequence of 4 'dns thermonuke' patches.	[22:47]
asciilifeform	(1st 3 are rather simple)	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	basically it takes out fNameLookup and forces a function to always return false.	[22:47]
asciilifeform	not only.	[22:48]
asciilifeform	also excises the cruft that was invoked when the latter was true	[22:48]
asciilifeform	and also removes hardcoded hostname from irc.cpp	[22:48]
asciilifeform	and removes dns disable flag from args parser	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	CAddress addrIRC("irc.lfnet.org", 6667, true);	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	ya	[22:48]
asciilifeform	anyway no point in recounting the lines of the patch here	[22:48]
asciilifeform	who wants - go, read	[22:48]
asciilifeform	ferphuxxsake read.	[22:49]
asciilifeform	after satisfied with this patch, therealbitcoin folks ought to try the static build again	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ?	[22:49]
asciilifeform	and see if the libnss idiocy goes away quietly	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	that way it can be fuzzed	[22:49]
ben_vulpes	wouldn't be the foundation mircea_popescu so much as my personal account	[22:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the irc module has begged to be fuzzed long ago	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes i'd donate teh cost	[22:50]
asciilifeform	there is some gnarly string handling in there, and i quite suspect it is exploitable	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform makes two of us.	[22:50]
asciilifeform	which is why i'd kinda like to lose the irc thing eventually	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	fuzz it first.	[22:50]
ben_vulpes	ooh fuzzing	[22:50]
asciilifeform	right now it is simply a very convenient spot to find pre-gavinization nodes	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	or fuzzers.	[22:50]
asciilifeform	aha.	[22:51]
asciilifeform	i must now confess that i began this a while ago, but never had time to properly pursue.	[22:51]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: if you're willing to donate the cost, why not run it through the bitcoin host?	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	rechristian it as the bitcoin foundation too ?	[22:51]
ben_vulpes	eh, pardon?	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	to which part ?	[22:52]
ben_vulpes	the rechristening	[22:52]
ben_vulpes	rechristen la serenissima's bitcoin host as the bitcoin foundation?	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	if the bitcoin host is the go-to thing for this job, it's the bitcoin foundation.	[22:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00041485 = 2.3024 BTC [+] {2}	[22:53]
asciilifeform	i think mircea_popescu is trying to say that jurov ought to break open the piggy and pony up	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	a not at all.	[22:53]
asciilifeform	if bitcoin-host is to host this	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	contrariwise - that why we have teh foundation is centrally so it participates in this sort of activity	[22:54]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ? << I can test this with my aws, sure. unless you guys are proposing something else i.e. spinning up our own ircd	[22:54]
ben_vulpes	mod6: i think the ask is for a long-running public node.	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	mod6 how valuable and how difficult dja think spinning an ircd compatible with lfnet would be ?	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes no, this is a temporary test thing, to see just how bad alf's latest butchery affects things	[22:55]
*	asciilifeform hoses off chopping block	[22:56]
*	decimati1n (~decimatio@c-50-183-5-221.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has left #bitcoin-assets	[22:56]
*	mod6 thinks	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	in other news, https://gist.github.com/bcoles/982695	[22:56]
assbot	monitors irc.lfnet.org:6667#bitcoin and extracts user details ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWsC8p )	[22:56]
ben_vulpes	aha well i'll be testing it on my own checkbook's back anyways	[22:56]
*	decimation (~decimatio@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:56]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: betcha 10,001 folks wrote some version of this	[22:56]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu : i certainly had one	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	aha	[22:57]
*	assbot gives voice to decimation	[22:57]
mod6	well, i've run ircd hybrid many times myself. ran one for /years/. but not sure what lfnet is about really. need to look into that. but whatever it might be, it'll need to be resistant to getting packeted, unless just run for a short time for testing.	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	you run it closed loop, with your own bitcoin-as-snipped above	[22:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: though for some odd reason the linked script joins #bitcoin rather than #bitcoinXX (where XX in {0, 99})	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	part of it is to see how well bitcoin holds up by being hosed from the irc side.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	part of it is to have a backup in case lfnet is a piece of shit / the enemy. which is pretty likely.	[22:58]
asciilifeform	as far as i can see, there is nothing nonstandard about lfnet	[22:58]
asciilifeform	channels #bitcoin00 through #bitcoin99 must exist or auto-create	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i think they run more or less basic ircd ya	[22:59]
asciilifeform	that's more or less it.	[22:59]
asciilifeform	i will repeat my observation that the irc seeder thing ~does not belong in the client~	[23:00]
mod6	CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ? << i think we should make this ip non-static, configurable from a file. these IPs can change at anytime/be honeynet, etc.	[23:00]
asciilifeform	if someone wants to extract seeds from that thing in real time, and forward them to therealbitcoin - that'd be grand	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per.	[23:00]
asciilifeform	but the gnarly piece of shit irc.cpp gotta go.	[23:00]
asciilifeform	mod6: i deliberately left that out	[23:00]
asciilifeform	(as explained on ml)	[23:00]
decimation	why not ircd that is linked to assbot wot?	[23:01]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per. << makes sense. just wanted to "voice" that concern.	[23:01]
asciilifeform	mod6: i am trying to set a kind of example for how one ought to do the patches	[23:01]
mod6	I like it.	[23:01]
asciilifeform	that somewhat flies in the face of the tradition of 'all in one pot'	[23:01]
asciilifeform	because we are not running 'chinese restaurant'	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	decimation gossipd is not ready yet. freenode you mean ?	[23:02]
mod6	yeah, it's good. breaks things up a bit, easier to read.	[23:02]
decimation	I guess I mean something like gossipd	[23:02]
asciilifeform	gossipd is strictly necessary - if only for authenticable nodes	[23:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00042177 = 4.8082 BTC [+]	[23:02]
asciilifeform	(at the moment, enemy controlling routing backbone can silently diddle virtually everything)	[23:02]
mod6	So currently, I'm trying to get gcc patched to see if we can even build the R.I. with gcc/uclibc. Would it be prudent to finish that work before moving on to testing this DNS amputation?	[23:03]
mod6	I think that would be the best course of action.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	mod6 depends on how advanced the work is. how advanced is it ?	[23:03]
asciilifeform	mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc	[23:03]
decimation	asciilifeform: did you see those gcc bugs?	[23:03]
asciilifeform	decimation: i saw a number of gcc bugs	[23:03]
decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-06-2015#1160207	[23:04]
assbot	Logged on 11-06-2015 03:34:37; decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue	[23:04]
*	joshbuddy_ has quit (Quit: joshbuddy_)	[23:04]
decimation	something about weak symbols being optimized out under certain conditions	[23:05]
mod6	I, with trinque's help, need to patch gcc 4.8.4 with gentoo using /etc/portage/patches via ebuild flag(?). If that works, then I can test that the R.I. will link properly. If that works, maybe we finally have static apple pie.	[23:05]
mod6	Probably need a week to sort it out -- might take rest of month.	[23:05]
decimation	might explain mod6's weird ulibc link shit	[23:05]
mod6	For me, doing this first is imperitive as even if the DNS amputation works, if we can't compile it with uclibc, it doesn't matter anyway.	[23:06]
decimation	at any rate, I'm going on a geologic tour tomorrow, I need to catch some sleep	[23:07]
mod6	night	[23:07]
asciilifeform	goodnight decimation	[23:07]
decimation	good luck with debugging gcc	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	mod6 aite.	[23:07]
mod6	Does that make sense? Or am I off course here?	[23:07]
asciilifeform	mod6 et al: what order to try things in is up to you lot	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	this thing is not so much an emergency as something that needs to be done. if it sees the light of box this month say it's perfect.	[23:07]
mod6	Ok, no prob. :]	[23:08]
mod6	I'll put it in the list. We'll revisit all of this soon.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	anwyay. there's no argument that the irc thing has to go.	[23:10]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc << this is a chicken/egg problem yeah. maybe we can't get it fully built because of the whole gethostbyname libnss bullshit. but if we can at least ensure that it'll link properly, that's huge. then, even if it's not fully statuc because of that, we can amputate dns with your patches and retry.	[23:10]
mod6	by "link properly", i mean overcoming this:	[23:11]
mod6	/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/4.8.4/../../../../x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/4.8.4/../../../libc.a(jmp-unwind.os): relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against undefined symbol `__GI___pthread_cleanup_upto' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC	[23:11]
mod6	decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue << i just really hope this applies cleanly, and "works".	[23:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1dWuded )	[23:13]
mod6	if not, we might have to McGuyver our own patch.	[23:13]
asciilifeform	incidentally,	[23:13]
asciilifeform	why aren't we using a period gcc ?	[23:13]
mod6	or upgrade to a much more uplevel version of gcc to test and see if that works instead. iirc, version 5.x included a fix for this? maybe 4.9.x did too.	[23:14]
asciilifeform	anyone tried 3.x ?	[23:14]
mod6	period gcc? as-in, something very recent?	[23:14]
asciilifeform	mno	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	as in of 2011	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	not a bad idea	[23:14]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	3.7 ?	[23:14]
asciilifeform	somebody wanna go down into cellar and fetch a 2011 (or prior) gcc tarball, hash, sign ?	[23:15]
mod6	ah, hmm. sure, we could give that a shot instead if you think its worth my/our time.	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	more vendored dependencies!	[23:15]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:15]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: compilator is ~the~ dependency	[23:15]
asciilifeform	all else - small change, in comparison.	[23:15]
*	ben_vulpes nods	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	mod6 yeah, definitely. esp if current one giving you trouble.	[23:17]
mod6	So, I think I'm gonna stay the course on trying to patch 4.8.4... if we get into a giant hassle with it, we'll cut bait for the time being and try to build something like 3.7 and try that.	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[23:18]
mod6	I think trinque and I need like 2 evenings of working on it to find out how ugly its gonna be.	[23:18]
trinque	mod6: I'll be home in roughly an hour btw	[23:18]
trinque	I have no strong opinion regarding uclibc vs glibc, as I haven't used the former at all before this	[23:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu et al: btw, irc is still in there for another reason: how node gets own external ipv4	[23:19]
mod6	either have I, but glibc is full of trickery.	[23:19]
asciilifeform	this, too, will have to find a new home	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	config file.	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	computers get their public names the same way women do : owner states it.	[23:19]
asciilifeform	logical place for it	[23:19]
asciilifeform	except gets gnarly with dynamic ip boxes	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin, not for the very poor.	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	C block allocation was, last i checked, <100 a year.	[23:20]
asciilifeform	afaik no u.s. residential isp has any place to plug these in	[23:21]
asciilifeform	(this is minor annoyance where i live, my ip changes 1-2x/year)	[23:22]
trinque	^same	[23:22]
trinque	or cumcast will sell you one for 10-15 extra per month	[23:22]
mod6	yeah i think my /27 used to be like ~$10/mo	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	srsly, 10 bux.	[23:22]
asciilifeform	'verizon' fiber will not sell static in residential zone for any price.	[23:22]
*	asciilifeform tried	[23:23]
trinque	verizon are known scamz0rz	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	i guess you're stuck servicing the things	[23:23]
asciilifeform	also known as only supplier of reasonable net pipe in the entire region	[23:23]
asciilifeform	(for residential zones)	[23:23]
mod6	yeah that /27 was through Qwest (now CenturyLink (usg isp)), now 1 static is included from cumcast "out of the box" iirc.	[23:23]
trinque	cronjob curl and icanhazip.com lol	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	well... you don't plan on being there long anyway, so.	[23:24]
*	trinque starts driving	[23:24]
asciilifeform	btw am i the only one who thinks it to be utterly retarded that the protocol requires a node to know own external ip ?	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	i don't think so.	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	what's so retarded about it ?	[23:25]
asciilifeform	say i connect to remote machine. it ought to know where i connected from	[23:25]
asciilifeform	by virtue of my having connected	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[23:25]
asciilifeform	just how ip works	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	not so, hence proxies.	[23:26]
asciilifeform	requiring folks to have reasonable nat-traversal arrangements would not be insane, i think	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	more insane than requiring machines to know their name.	[23:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6866 @ 0.00042177 = 2.8959 BTC [+]	[23:28]
ben_vulpes	myeah this gets back to my question about the necessity of the IP address in the protocol.	[23:30]
ben_vulpes	a) how is this an actually necessary thing	[23:30]
ben_vulpes	and	[23:30]
ben_vulpes	no, no b.	[23:30]
*	cazalla_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)	[23:31]
ben_vulpes	by virtue of the socket being opened, the receiving node should be able to just write to that (file descriptor, i think is the abstraction?) and let the NIC handle the package addressing - correct?	[23:31]
ben_vulpes	packet*	[23:31]
ben_vulpes	i might be colossally retarded this is always possible	[23:32]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=addrLocalHost << where used.	[23:33]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: addrLocalHost ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvMcg )	[23:33]
asciilifeform	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=addrMe << see also.	[23:34]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: addrMe ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvPEY )	[23:34]
*	cazalla (~cazalla@unaffiliated/cazalla) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:34]
asciilifeform	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#1816 << and yes, it's retarded	[23:34]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvQZn )	[23:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00042177 = 2.1932 BTC [+]	[23:35]
asciilifeform	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.h#0363 << see also.	[23:35]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvRMX )	[23:35]
ben_vulpes	i'm rusty on this particular bit of logic	[23:36]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: linked lines show where thing indeed shits out 'here is my ip' in-band	[23:37]
ben_vulpes	myes, i see that. what i'm not 100% on is the impact to the receiving node of having garbage in that field.	[23:37]
*	assbot gives voice to cazalla	[23:37]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: they will answer to the garbage	[23:37]
*	badon (~badon@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:38]
*	shovel_boss has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:39]
ben_vulpes	what do you mean "answer": attempt to talk to the provided IP instead of the connection abstraction provided by the machine?	[23:39]
asciilifeform	iirc yes	[23:40]
*	asciilifeform digs in the pile of shit	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	b-b-but that's insane	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	why not just talk on the open connection?	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#0395 << this implies the connection isn't dependent on the broadcasted IP at all	[23:41]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1I7lemO )	[23:42]
ben_vulpes	but whaddoino	[23:42]
mod6	yeah, the network stuff (having read Stevens' stuff (UNIX Network Programming Vol 1&2)) makes me cringe.	[23:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00042177 = 2.5517 BTC [+]	[23:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24795 @ 0.00042177 = 10.4578 BTC [+]	[23:50]
asciilifeform	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#1332 << l0l, stray turd	[23:51]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWwyWz )	[23:51]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#1364 << here, i think, is your boojum	[23:52]
assbot	Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWwDtm )	[23:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00042177 = 4.9558 BTC [+]	[23:55]
assbot	dpaste: 3QSDKP7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I7mXsu )	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	i still don't see the problem you two see	[23:59]

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