Forum logs for 19 Sep 2017
| BingoBoingo: | bedbugs are no where near peaked yet | [00:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | relatit 14 year old lulz http://articles.latimes.com/2003/sep/11/home/hm-ants11 | [00:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | Spoiler: Chalk contains hella deltamethrin and other pyrethroids making it incredi-safe, US still has no better approved alternative | [00:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | Compare to 13 years later: "In response, this week Michigan officials are considering new rules to limit the use of the pesticide. If the rules are approved, as expected, Michigan would join a growing number of states and the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in trying to prevent the misuse of methomyl, in part by restricting who can buy it and requiring new warning labels. But some observers fear the labelswhich depict a | [00:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | raccoon in a red circle with a slash through itmight unintentionally make matters worse." | [00:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/regulators-move-limit-wildlife-deaths-misuse-deadly-fly-killer | [00:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | ^ EPA approved | [00:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | More for the posteriority: "Its indiscriminate, intentional poisoning of wildlife, says Brian Rowe, who recently retired as pesticide section manager at the Michigan Department of Agriculture & Rural Development in Lansing. Some of them die with their face in the pan that theyre licking out of. I mean, it kills them that quick." | [00:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | Actual field research shows consumers read no pesticide labels whatsoever and just look for aeresol cans, then cycle cans until one has desired effect: "EPA officials say no such testing occurred, but are confident that people will read the new labels as intended. The agency notes that text below the symbol reads it is illegal to use this product with the intention to kill raccoons, skunks, opossums, coyotes, wolves, dogs, cats, or an | [00:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | y other non-target species." | [00:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol illegal intentions | [00:42] |
| asciilifeform: | why not straight to sarin, lol | [00:43] |
| asciilifeform: | why settle for small change. | [00:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, racoons are a very successful sort of rat. as a result, they don't have any friends among the people they interact with on any kind of regular basis. kinda like pigeons, actually. | [00:45] |
| asciilifeform: | we have'em here, gigantic rat aha | [00:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: Because sarin, like malathion and vx has a repellent effect for the lucky to get a whiff from sufficient distance | [00:46] |
| asciilifeform: | but not a bigger rat than the fucking corn eaters. | [00:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | <mircea_popescu> well, racoons are a very successful sort of rat. as a result, they don't have any friends among the people they interact with on any kind of regular basis. kinda like pigeons, actually. << Aha, like their namesake. For people interacting with them occasionally "entertaining", in constant contact universally nuissance | [00:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | <asciilifeform> but not a bigger rat than the fucking corn eaters. << raccoons are corn eaters! | [00:47] |
| asciilifeform: | there's no limit to whom or what the cornfed 'civilization' is willing to poison, to keep the nonsense going for another day | [00:47] |
| asciilifeform: | ( recall mircea_popescu's 'ban on trees' piece. ) | [00:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | AHA | [00:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways the Chicom repellent chalk by comparison is peak sanity | [00:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Mild neurotoxin with strong repellent properties in solid binder... as opposed to atomizer mist device | [00:50] |
| trinque: | or folks could put away their food, even. | [00:53] |
| asciilifeform: | naah trinque that's clearly Not Possible !1!! instead idjits will exterminate large mammals so we can be beset with fast-breeding, small ones, like in rat temple in india | [00:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | Hey, when's the last time you've seen deer attack adult human out of hunger? Mouse WILL!!! | [00:55] |
| asciilifeform: | rats will clean invalid, infant, other immobile meat, like pirannha. | [00:56] |
| * trinque | has a cat for murdering those, roaches, w/e crawls and therefore mustest die. | [00:56] |
| trinque: | and hell I'll keep a spider around too if it's not bothering me | [00:57] |
| trinque: | there's a little wolf guy living in my truck somewhere at the moment | [00:57] |
| asciilifeform: | trinque: how'd you react to neighbour cornfuck leaving poisoned bait for your beast to find ? | [00:57] |
| trinque: | not kindly | [00:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | trinque the blessings of the plains folk. up here, there's no flies, no roaches, no nothing. | [01:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | i do have a lot of geckos, but tbh they're great. | [01:01] |
| asciilifeform: | the astonishing thing is that even here there are geckos. | [01:01] |
| asciilifeform: | or something quite similar, not wholly sure | [01:01] |
| trinque: | lots of them here too, cute little bastards | [01:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | <asciilifeform> trinque: how'd you react to neighbour cornfuck leaving poisoned bait for your beast to find ? << 90% of successful pest control is geography | [01:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | Including neighbor selection | [01:05] |
| asciilifeform: | 'don't like lice? don't live in gulag' -- such breakthrough!11 | [01:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | Another 9% is in critters you keep. | [01:07] |
| trinque: | ^ | [01:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | 0.9% is pyrethroid repellents | [01:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | The remaininder is unrestrained chemical warfare with organophosphate nerve agents on known problems. | [01:08] |
| trinque: | not like I don't spray a perimeter around my home, but other than that, if there's nothing to eat, there's nothing to eat | [01:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | But sometimes you wanna grow a tomato and there's a fucker growing corn within 85 miles which puts you within a day's flight of stinkbug horde | [01:10] |
| trinque: | you're gonna get the occasional wood roach flying through the room, but then the girl screams and free comedy | [01:11] |
| trinque: | BingoBoingo: tru | [01:11] |
| trinque: | original thread was (or I'm tired) that chicom area denial chalk (TM) | [01:12] |
| trinque: | if growing outside, probably going to need sprays | [01:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yeah Safe Chicom Chalk, vs. US fly/coon bait mega poison | [01:12] |
| * trinque | gonna go park brain for the night | [01:13] |
| trinque: | cya | [01:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | Have fun. | [01:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | In other, more recent ripped from the headlines: "Woman complains Hobby Lobbys raw cotton decor is racially insensitive " | [01:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | And a laff:"On Sunday night, as police officers marched downtown, a Post-Dispatch photographer heard them chant a refrain most often heard at Ferguson protests: Whose streets? Our streets." | [01:24] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2017/09/actual-healines-found-on-mainstream-fake-news-publications/ << Qntra - Actual Healines Found On Mainstream "Fake News" Publications | [01:48] |
| ben_vulpes: | BingoBoingo: perhaps meant headlines? | [02:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | ben_vulpes: Fuck, ty, fxd | [03:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | In other news, there's a new season of South Park | [03:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | Only heard about if 4 days after it started | [03:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | The mine where I found out https://www.alternet.org/culture/why-south-park-perfectly-armed-fight-alt-right | [03:37] |
| deedbot: | deeds online | [06:55] |
| trinque: | !!help | [10:27] |
| deedbot: | http://deedbot.org/help.html | [10:27] |
| asciilifeform: | in other trilema-plagiarism arts , https://archive.is/M7Mse << '...many of these self-styled online radicals were actually military contractors, drawing salaries with benefits from the very same U.S. national security state they claimed to be fighting. Their spunky crypto-tech also turned out, on closer inspection, to be a jury-rigged and porous Potemkin Village version of secure digital communications. What’s more, the relevant so | [12:12] |
| asciilifeform: | ftware here was itself financed by the U.S. government: millions of dollars a year flowing to crypto radicals from the Pentagon, the State Department, and organizations spun off from the CIA.' | [12:12] |
| deedbot: | http://www.contravex.com/2017/09/19/strawberry-creek-wunderland/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Strawberry Creek Wunderland | [12:23] |
| asciilifeform: | !!up acataleptic | [12:47] |
| deedbot: | acataleptic voiced for 30 minutes. | [12:47] |
| asciilifeform: | acataleptic: who might you be ? | [12:48] |
| acataleptic: | nobody of any importance. friends of friends of friends directed me here. | [13:03] |
| trinque: | IP out of good old san francisco | [13:22] |
| trinque: | has the forum yet digested a calitard? | [13:22] |
| ben_vulpes: | not afaik | [13:26] |
| ben_vulpes: | g_l will protest the claim | [13:26] |
| trinque: | popcorn kernel stuck in throat isn't digestion, lol | [13:27] |
| asciilifeform: | !!up fromdeedbot | [13:59] |
| deedbot: | fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes. | [13:59] |
| fromdeedbot: | who owns this service | [14:00] |
| ben_vulpes: | fromdeedbot: which service | [14:01] |
| fromdeedbot: | deedbot.org | [14:01] |
| ben_vulpes: | trinque does | [14:01] |
| fromdeedbot: | I want my information removed from your site | [14:02] |
| ben_vulpes: | haw haw haw | [14:02] |
| asciilifeform: | ahahahahahahaha | [14:02] |
| ben_vulpes: | well who are you? | [14:02] |
| fromdeedbot: | wouldnt you like to know | [14:02] |
| trinque: | lol? so how am I to know "my" then? | [14:03] |
| asciilifeform: | a tard, apparently, who else | [14:03] |
| ben_vulpes: | ahahaha this is choice | [14:03] |
| fromdeedbot: | eheheheh | [14:03] |
| fromdeedbot: | neckbeards | [14:03] |
| trinque: | !!down fromdeedbot | [14:03] |
| deedbot: | http://trilema.com/2017/little-miss-pretty/ << Trilema - Little Miss Pretty | [14:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | lol @ motto of the day! | [14:13] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2017/09/us-president-trump-makes-first-address-to-un/ << Qntra - US President Trump Makes First Address To UN | [14:13] |
| trinque: | http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Go1za/?raw=true << so get this | [14:16] |
| ben_vulpes: | did not even bother to specify which information? | [14:19] |
| trinque: | MUH INFORMATIONS | [14:19] |
| trinque: | "but I have lifelock!" | [14:19] |
| ben_vulpes: | gotta lead em on a bit for max lulz, "hm, what informations are we talking about here?" | [14:20] |
| trinque: | http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-23-aug-2015#1849265 | [14:20] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-08-23 05:06 trinque: I demand for this to never have happened at once! | [14:20] |
| shinohai: | Same individual in #otc trinque 14:21:52 -- [day___] (5ac0f111@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.192.241.17): 90.192.241.17 - http://webchat.freenode.net | [14:26] |
| asciilifeform: | i suspect trollage | [14:28] |
| asciilifeform: | otherwise it'd look moar like 'hi i am magicaltux and i demand that you unnegrate me at once!' | [14:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Could be Equifax! | [14:32] |
| shinohai: | Equifags | [14:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715795 << that part was pretty lulzy. | [15:09] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 18:02 fromdeedbot: I want my information removed from your site | [15:09] |
| shinohai: | rm -rf myinformation/* | [15:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715785 << hanbot was born and raised in san diego. | [15:13] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 17:22 trinque: has the forum yet digested a calitard? | [15:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715791 << bwajhahaha o lordy. | [15:13] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 18:00 fromdeedbot: who owns this service | [15:13] |
| trinque: | even teh pantsuit law reads: "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." | [15:14] |
| trinque: | something really must be done | [15:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm not even sure what the claim is supposed to be. prolly grubles dicking about. | [15:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | or w/e, there's a by now lengthy comet tails' worth of idiots who WERE NOT CONSULTED. | [15:15] |
| asciilifeform: | there was goat or somesuch | [15:15] |
| asciilifeform: | who was the d00d with the ddostron | [15:15] |
| trinque: | I guess we'll never know guy assumed I read thoughts. | [15:15] |
| shinohai: | 15:13:42 +mimisbrunnr 486018: 000000000000000000ef605f3c5d45bb1228223474e8d2870bd82c2d52f556cb (6h, 52m, 0s) <<< jeez | [15:18] |
| asciilifeform: | nsa had to swap tapes on the splice, wat | [15:19] |
| ben_vulpes: | heh i've been waiting for that | [15:19] |
| ben_vulpes: | was reporting 20+ connections and exhibiting no signs of blackhole | [15:20] |
| ben_vulpes: | just...no new blocks. | [15:20] |
| ben_vulpes: | mouth now open, waiting for them to pour in found a non sybil i guess. | [15:20] |
| asciilifeform: | trinque: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/76xSb/?raw=true | [15:22] |
| asciilifeform: | ben_vulpes: 'mouth open' is exact description of the block pull mechanism | [15:26] |
| asciilifeform: | srsly , thing makes NO active effort to snarf new blox, other than at boot time | [15:26] |
| ben_vulpes: | asciilifeform: lol i got it from you | [15:26] |
| trinque: | asciilifeform: ack, ty | [15:26] |
| ben_vulpes: | and in other things american hospitals are willing to charge a tidy hundo to use a single item of: http://www.ebay.com/itm/McKesson-Rapid-Diagnostic-Test-Kit-Medi-Lab-Performance-Strep-A-CLIA-Waived-2-/122676899273?hash=item1c901cedc9:g:DzcAAOSw9ENZpvbV | [15:31] |
| ben_vulpes: | lol and earlier today this read "Emacs and VIM users 2X as likely to pass technical interviews as Eclipse users": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15285927 | [15:32] |
| asciilifeform: | somebody still does technicalinterviews ?!! | [15:33] |
| ben_vulpes: | people still fuck goats, asciilifeform | [15:34] |
| asciilifeform: | i thought that at this point everybody just does the 5min litmus test | [15:34] |
| asciilifeform: | ( put whatever in d00d's hands, say snipped of x86 asm, or the like, and watch if eyes/hands light up in obviously correct motions, or if cow stare ) | [15:35] |
| asciilifeform: | *snippet | [15:35] |
| asciilifeform: | http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JHUvM/?raw=true << in other lulz. i'll skip to the money shot: 'It is the sense of Congress that WikiLeaks and the senior leadership of WikiLeaks resemble a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors and should be treated as such a service by the United States.' | [16:23] |
| asciilifeform: | other lulz include 'Section 402 requires the DNI, within 30 days of enactment, to sponsor a security clearance for each eligible chief election official of a State, territory, or the District of Columbia (and up to one eligible designee), up to the top secret level. Section 402 also requires the DNI to share appropriate classified information-related threats to election systems and to the integrity of the election process with chief | [16:25] |
| asciilifeform: | election officials and their designees who possess the aforementioned security clearances.' | [16:25] |
| asciilifeform: | ( translation from usg limba de lemn : 'there will now be concrete penalties for exposing dnc diddling of elections' ) | [16:25] |
| asciilifeform: | also didjaknow, 'Section 609 requires the DNI, in coordination with the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of FBI, the Director of CIA, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, and the Secretary of the Treasury, to develop a whole-of-government strategy for countering Russian cyber threats against United States electoral systems and processes' | [16:28] |
| asciilifeform: | and finally, bonus 'bill of attainder' - 'Section 614 requires the Secretary of State, in executing the advance notification requirements of the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017, to ensure the Russian Federation provides two business days of advance notice to the Secretary prior to Russian diplomatic or consular travel...' | [16:29] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: qntra fodder ? | [16:29] |
| phf: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715850 << i stopped doing even those. i've had a couple of months of lulzy 5 minute litmus tests that resulted in 100% failure rate, which made me think that perhaps the whole "teach everyone!1 to program" basically means that s/n has finally approached 0. | [16:59] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 19:34 asciilifeform: i thought that at this point everybody just does the 5min litmus test | [16:59] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: it was fascinating, i saw same thing, walk in 50 people and not 1 actually has ~any idea how to solve basic pons asinorum | [17:00] |
| asciilifeform: | incl. folx with all imaginable paper 'qualifications', masters of sciences, perfect marks, whatever nonsense | [17:00] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580642 << see also. | [17:01] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-12-09 19:36 asciilifeform: phf: to quote one such 'speshul trainflake' i encountered once, 'you should be making me an offer, and not asking me to do tricks' | [17:01] |
| phf: | oh yeah, right, we did have a thread | [17:01] |
| phf: | same thread as a guy who freaked the fuck out, because i told him to ssh into a box for the interview | [17:02] |
| asciilifeform: | that seems quite posh, vs usual chalk dust | [17:03] |
| phf: | i was trying to be ~polite~. if you put "10 years of unix" on your resume, i sort of assume "tell me your favorite editor and then ssh into the box for interview" is a bushido level of politeness | [17:04] |
| phf: | i now realize though that "X years of unix" only works if it rolls over into the 90s. otherwise it's an irrelevant factoid | [17:06] |
| asciilifeform: | this unfortunately applies to ~everything and ~anything else just the same | [17:06] |
| phf: | asciilifeform: also i'm not sure if you've seen http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/tools.html | [17:10] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: iirc it popped up in the 'bsd cat' thread | [17:10] |
| phf: | ah i see | [17:11] |
| asciilifeform: | but obvious q : how to square 'Support for multibyte characters in UTF-8 and many East Asian encodings.' with 'Derived from original Unix material released as Open Source by Caldera and Sun' and 'heirloominess' ?? | [17:11] |
| trinque: | also "this here cpio does zip" | [17:12] |
| asciilifeform: | aaaaha | [17:12] |
| asciilifeform: | btw 'bitcoin-heirloom' by mikehearn, gavin et al, when. | [17:12] |
| phf: | it's not republic software, so it's never going to be fully aligned | [17:17] |
| phf: | but ~i think~ naive multibyte (though i haven't looked at particular implementation, i'm judging by something like nvi2) is less of an issue than outright gnuisms | [17:19] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: it's the root of 90% of the bloat and outright retardation in the currently extant utils | [17:21] |
| phf: | i don't think that's right, since plan9 does _utf-8_ at fraction of complexity | [17:23] |
| phf: | 90% of bloat and outright retardation comes from there being retards in the process. it's like cancer, it doesn't limit itself to only this type of tissue | [17:25] |
| asciilifeform: | 'string length is now O(N)' is not compatible with concept of healthy tissue. period. | [17:28] |
| asciilifeform: | not only length-finding, but subsectioning, search, just about any op | [17:29] |
| asciilifeform: | variablybytedcharism is retarded, and sane folx don't push it. | [17:30] |
| phf: | i don't know why you explain to me things that ~i argued in the past~. fwiw, i argued "utf-8 is a whole spittoon" back when the question of encoding first came up, to somewhat fierce opposition | [17:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: Maybe? | [17:30] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: you were quite right in the past. comment is re 'fraction of complexity' item | [17:31] |
| asciilifeform: | it doesn't matter how variablebyteism is implemented, or by whom, is is simply badnoose. | [17:31] |
| asciilifeform: | !!up barpub | [17:33] |
| deedbot: | barpub voiced for 30 minutes. | [17:33] |
| asciilifeform: | oh hey trinque we have a fella from yer favourite geography | [17:34] |
| asciilifeform: | iirc. | [17:34] |
| barpub: | it strikes me that variable-length encoding and ropes are natural complements | [17:36] |
| asciilifeform: | barpub: ropes? | [17:36] |
| barpub: | if you're stuck representing strings as flat arrays, yes, o(n)ism is a necessity | [17:36] |
| barpub: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_%28data_structure%29 | [17:36] |
| asciilifeform: | barpub: if you know where i can buy ram that ain't a flatarray, please tell | [17:37] |
| barpub: | yes, only problem with content-addressable memory is I can't buy it | [17:38] |
| asciilifeform: | presently EVERYBODY is 'representing strings as flat array', but some folx are lying to themselves about it | [17:38] |
| barpub: | sure any binary tree has an underlying flat representation, because hardware itself enforces this | [17:39] |
| phf: | i've actually tried putting ropes in a bunch of projects and they never have good performance characteristics. in fact for text editors no one has invented anything better than "one string per one line", and if you want to be fancy you split it at point (what emacs does) | [17:39] |
| barpub: | xi editor is pretty snappy, i've used it on multi-gb csvs | [17:40] |
| asciilifeform: | ... and if you've decided to 'be fancy', go the whole hog and write a structure editor | [17:40] |
| asciilifeform: | rather than some sad hybrid of bulldog and rhinoceros | [17:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | !~ticker --market all | [17:41] |
| barpub: | agreed, but even a structure editor has, or should have, a prose mode | [17:41] |
| jhvh1: | BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3890.73, vol: 15807.63131920 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3892.5, vol: 50019.87163725 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3780.807709, vol: 1356.96030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3900.0, vol: 7148.02952009 | Volume-weighted last average: 3890.80583792 | [17:41] |
| barpub: | in which case the ast is just a rope and has no further semantics | [17:41] |
| phf: | barpub: nah, real structure editor doesn't. but then i've no idea what asciilifeform is talking about. there's not really any real structure editors in production. i know of a dead one, and it's an interlisp programming environment | [17:42] |
| asciilifeform: | that's the only 1 i know of aha | [17:42] |
| barpub: | if there was a structure editor whose structures include free text, and one whose structures do not, i would pick the former | [17:44] |
| barpub: | since i do write ordinary English from time to time, and would need in the latter case two programs when i want only one | [17:44] |
| asciilifeform: | 'ropes' text not only replaces O(1) ops with O(log n), but introduces pointerism and the inevitable overflow ( when implemented, as all unixen are, in overflowlang ) and thus possibility of ill-formed structures , whereas ALL conventional strings are well-formed at birth | [17:45] |
| phf: | i suspect xi trades snappiness for multi-gb use, which you don't notice, since you have to run it on the most recent mac (at least mac front end requires maxver xcode) | [17:46] |
| phf: | asciilifeform: but you write it in rust, see! | [17:46] |
| asciilifeform: | if i were to randomly flip a bit in a bitstring representing roped text, it will quite possibly turn it to liquishit. if i do the same to normal string, you have 1 bad char in 1 particular place. | [17:47] |
| barpub: | it's the only example of a rope i've actual experience with | [17:47] |
| barpub: | and robustness is a cogent and reasonable objection to using them | [17:47] |
| asciilifeform: | incidentally anybody who really yearns for 'ropes', can approximate the effect on his box right now: go and directly edit a gzipped text... | [17:47] |
| asciilifeform: | barpub: are you familiar with the concept of complexity-as-environmental-pollutant ? | [17:48] |
| barpub: | i've read your blog if that's what you mean | [17:48] |
| asciilifeform: | i'll take that as a yes then | [17:48] |
| barpub: | so perhaps waiting until someone reboots the scheme chip, thus hardware-enforced cellularity, thus avoiding pointerism | [17:49] |
| barpub: | is a reasonable prerequisite to having nice things, like ropes, and variable-length encoding | [17:49] |
| barpub: | and if your bedrock is the byte, use ascii and hope for the best | [17:50] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2017/09/latest-bitcoin-network-difficulty-adjustment-up-19-58-percent-to-new-all-time-high-as-chicoms-push-out-local-fiatbitcoin-trading-interfaces/ << Qntra - Latest Bitcoin Network Difficulty Adjustment: Up ~19.58 Percent To New All Time High As Chicoms Push Out Local fiat/Bitcoin Trading Interfaces | [17:50] |
| phf: | additional point is that traditionally when someone said "multi-gb" what was really meant is "file bigger than can fit in memory", and suddenly(!11) your whole underlying editor algorithm changes drastically, because you have be doing partial updates, and temp files, and all kinds of cut-and-paste trickery. that's why emacs has a special cased "big file" support. with ropes if you want to achieve multi-gb that way you basically have to | [17:51] |
| phf: | make your ropes persist on disk, and then have a single pass that build ropes out of the complete contents of file (which you already have to do), and then you offload rope subtree that doesn't fit in memory, and then you edit the whole monster by swapping rope subtrees in and out, and FINALLY you have to walk the whole rope structure, file and memory alike, to serialize it back into file | [17:51] |
| asciilifeform: | barpub: actually i've been having a pretty good time avoiding pointerism in, e.g., ffa, on ordinary pc | [17:52] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: i never understood what's wrong with mmap for text editor of 'larger than memory' items | [17:53] |
| phf: | asciilifeform: you can't insert | [17:53] |
| phf: | and yes you have to use mmap, but that's not the end of the story by a long shot | [17:54] |
| barpub: | memory should cache disk, implying the filesystem rep should also, yes, be a rope | [17:54] |
| barpub: | or ast as case may be | [17:54] |
| barpub: | again, predicated on hardware-level bedrock support for treelike structure | [17:55] |
| phf: | i regret wasting time explaining | [17:57] |
| barpub: | phf: up to you. i've already conceded the basic point: on actual hardware you can buy, ropes are fragile and corruptible and represent incidental complexity | [17:58] |
| asciilifeform: | phf: string insert is O(N) troo!! but i can't escape the notion that if you're manually inserting INSIDE multi-GB strings, Something Is Wrong with yer process | [18:00] |
| asciilifeform: | what is it exactly that HAS to be multigb, AND human-editable text, AND cannot be split into files in any way ? | [18:01] |
| phf: | hand patching binary blobs before you write a tool for it, traditionally | [18:03] |
| asciilifeform: | 13337cr4x lol | [18:04] |
| phf: | !!:D | [18:04] |
| asciilifeform: | i typically write a perlism for those, with a seek() | [18:04] |
| asciilifeform: | dun think i've ever done one for a >coupleaMB bin tho | [18:05] |
| asciilifeform: | ( btw i always found it interesting that the unix authors never saw it fit to include a binary equivalent for diff/patch . but iirc we had this thread. ) | [18:05] |
| phf: | it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine) | [18:15] |
| phf: | it would eliminate the need for a very large number of data structures | [18:15] |
| ben_vulpes: | and in Autotranslation Today: http://archive.is/9t3Zb | [19:27] |
| shinohai: | lol | [19:31] |
| shinohai: | !~translate es to en dios mio | [19:31] |
| jhvh1: | shinohai: OMG | [19:31] |
| shinohai: | xD | [19:31] |
| mod6: | evenin' | [19:35] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << cons cell is prolly the simplest physical realization of this item | [19:36] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 22:15 phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine) | [19:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/716tmr/its_been_nearly_a_week_since_seattles_mayor_quit/ lol | [20:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715839 << major pos innit. | [21:05] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 19:20 ben_vulpes: just...no new blocks. | [21:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | "who the fuck designs a p2p network like this ?" "hey, thank your lucky stars he didn't build it out of wxwidgets" | [21:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715856 << except for "what dnc", i guess. | [21:06] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 20:25 asciilifeform: ( translation from usg limba de lemn : 'there will now be concrete penalties for exposing dnc diddling of elections' ) | [21:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715867 << damn, i shoulda freaked out when sina wanted to show me his gossipd. | [21:08] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:02 phf: same thread as a guy who freaked the fuck out, because i told him to ssh into a box for the interview | [21:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | which btw, what happened to him ? | [21:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715869 << sounds to me like an orc half-implementation of "#trilema on freenode, use <this> if you don't have an irc client." neh | [21:09] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:04 phf: i was trying to be ~polite~. if you put "10 years of unix" on your resume, i sort of assume "tell me your favorite editor and then ssh into the box for interview" is a bushido level of politeness | [21:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | i always thought it somewhat weird that ~all we ever interview is chicks for the topless position, fwiw. | [21:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715878 << i suppose it was on the candidate list now that "bitcoin core" and "bitcoin cash" both crashed and burned and there you go ruining all its great cachet! | [21:11] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:12 asciilifeform: btw 'bitcoin-heirloom' by mikehearn, gavin et al, when. | [21:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~translate es to en servicio por el recollectamiento de materiales revalorizables | [21:13] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: service for the collection of revalorizable materials | [21:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | ohic. | [21:13] |
| asciilifeform: | oh hey 'cash' finally croaked? | [21:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm sure not to your standards. | [21:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | but the bill as written by the usg.hacks was "takes over", not "lingers irrelevantly for as long as we keep pouring money into the sand" | [21:14] |
| asciilifeform: | troo | [21:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715881 << here's an alt take on this : the problem comes from having the notion of byte be anything else but bus width. if 64 bit machines natively worked on 64 bit bytes, all the message fucktification bs known as unicode would be significantly less of a conversation issue. | [21:15] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:21 asciilifeform: phf: it's the root of 90% of the bloat and outright retardation in the currently extant utils | [21:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | knock yourself out, have 64 bit long glyph pages, who the fuck is keeping you. | [21:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | type ctrl-X alt-b macro-meta-F12 for item #10101100101011001010110010101100 | [21:16] |
| asciilifeform: | seekrit: pc arch already fetches 128b wordz internally | [21:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [21:17] |
| asciilifeform: | but naturally buried under layers of microshitcompatibilityatallcostsforevah | [21:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | so why even maintain the "8 bit byte" nonsense ? "oh, it'd be hard for people to change" ? WHAT FUCKING PEOPLE!!! 80% of everyone involved with computers heard about this "programmable" thing sometime LAST YEAR | [21:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's pretty fucking clear by now that 64bit is where it stops anyway. | [21:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | so update the byte, and be fucking done with it. | [21:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | there is ~no benefit in maintaining a "quarter byte" antiquated notion, this isn't the museum of Z80 computing science. | [21:19] |
| * asciilifeform | avoids baking 8bitism into his creations, when possible -- and sane langs make it possible | [21:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform it's fine on some platforms. i think we might be like the only people who even touched such a platform this decade. | [21:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | and me entirely by accident, lawyer's den had his antique playthings, we did some rally thing on an old crt tv. | [21:20] |
| asciilifeform: | i like z80. like 6502 even moar | [21:21] |
| asciilifeform: | ( cleaner arch ) | [21:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | nothing wrong with that. but note the fucking 8-bit byte friendly programs COME ON FUCKING CASSETTE TAPE! LIKE ROXETTE OMFG! | [21:22] |
| mod6: | join the joyride alf | [21:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | shit's not gonna be reading any ssds, dvds, etcs, so why the fuck is my 2gb sample of two girls fucking each other's ass on the brandemburg expressed in z80 units. | [21:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715887 << because meanwhile he gets it! | [21:24] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:30 phf: i don't know why you explain to me things that ~i argued in the past~. fwiw, i argued "utf-8 is a whole spittoon" back when the question of encoding first came up, to somewhat fierce opposition | [21:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715903 << interestingly, same here. is there a known-good application of the rope ? | [21:27] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:39 phf: i've actually tried putting ropes in a bunch of projects and they never have good performance characteristics. in fact for text editors no one has invented anything better than "one string per one line", and if you want to be fancy you split it at point (what emacs does) | [21:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | also, the splitting must be a view (ie, toggleable). | [21:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715929 << and yet nano can handle tb. it'll take a while to bring it up, but it will. insertions np, seek-next back and forth np, whole line deletions etc. | [21:32] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 21:51 phf: additional point is that traditionally when someone said "multi-gb" what was really meant is "file bigger than can fit in memory", and suddenly(!11) your whole underlying editor algorithm changes drastically, because you have be doing partial updates, and temp files, and all kinds of cut-and-paste trickery. that's why emacs has a special cased "big file" support. with ropes if you want to achieve multi-gb that way you basically have to | [21:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << i suspect that was the original idea of pointers. "you want to insert X between A and B in AB memory ? NO PROBLEM! make A point to X instead of B and X to B itself AND IT IS DONE! MAGICALLY!" | [21:35] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-19 22:15 phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine) | [21:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | then the whole stack came tumbling down the chair that collapsed the moon unit. | [21:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | and in other randoms of today, "Есть удобный справочник от Мирчи Попеску о том, как взаимодействовать с фиатными учреждениями, которые пытаются требовать юрисдикции над виртуальными мирами." | [21:38] |
| asciilifeform: | lolwat | [21:38] |
| asciilifeform: | where | [21:38] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716003 << only if willing to strain the meaning of 'will handle' until is screams | [21:40] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-20 01:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715929 << and yet nano can handle tb. it'll take a while to bring it up, but it will. insertions np, seek-next back and forth np, whole line deletions etc. | [21:40] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716005 << manually driven pointerolade is exactly the proverbial 'bus with four steering wheels' | [21:44] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-20 01:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << i suspect that was the original idea of pointers. "you want to insert X between A and B in AB memory ? NO PROBLEM! make A point to X instead of B and X to B itself AND IT IS DONE! MAGICALLY!" | [21:44] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1715990 << on second thought, this is prominently not true in... FUCKGOATS ( just as every other rs232 device, it must be connected to a machine that knows what to do with 8bit byte and NEVER pads it to any other size with nulls or otherwise ) | [21:47] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-09-20 01:19 asciilifeform avoids baking 8bitism into his creations, when possible -- and sane langs make it possible | [21:47] |
| asciilifeform: | 8bitism is pretty thoroughly baked into various iron. | [21:48] |
| asciilifeform: | ( e.g., you can buy ram that's 1 bit wide, or 4, or in multiples of 8 or (very expensively) of 9, but afaik no other size. and multitude of other devices, e.g. anything that runs on spi, expect 8bitism ) | [21:49] |
| asciilifeform: | sadly 8bitism is aaaalmost as thoroughly entrenched as binarism. | [21:50] |
| * asciilifeform | blows dust off 1st ed. k&r , the one with the arch bitnesses tables | [21:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform happycoin.club/fiatnyie-uchrezhdeniya-v-virtualnyih-mirah/ bitminer.in.ua/фиатные-учреждения-в-виртуальных- and assorted other such. | [21:57] |
| asciilifeform: | reads like machine trans | [21:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | and i'll point out that while Попескy is acceptable, Мирчи is pretty far from the original. | [21:58] |
| asciilifeform: | it's rubbish | [21:58] |
| asciilifeform: | google trans or similar with a small bit of manual delousing (or perhaps not even) | [21:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform hey, you were the one with "errythang exists in russian" kick no ? :D | [21:59] |
| asciilifeform: | in this sense 'everything exists' in elvish. | [21:59] |
| asciilifeform: | in other noose, asciilifeform found that 1) knuthian division can be sped up by ANOTHER factor of 2, by walking the bits of the quotient instead of shifting'em 2) barrett reduction in constant time is almost certainly possible | [22:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | and now thatthe log is done, i shall dedicate myself to the other enjoyable literate passtime -- the reading of old trilema articles. | [22:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!up Cruxflare | [22:01] |
| deedbot: | Cruxflare voiced for 30 minutes. | [22:01] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl, meat | [22:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | soo, given the "cultured milk" yoghurt bs these days, i wonder what % of us population's entire exposure to that concept is in that context, and as a result has come to believe "cultured" means you know, you've had some germs injected or something. | [22:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | after all, you're not supposed to look anything up, just guess "what it could mean" "in context". | [22:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | "Man, that site is weird. There's lots of stories that have the word "pantsuits" in them but the site purports to be about bitcoin." | [23:08] |
| ben_vulpes: | don't you know, BingoBoingo, tmsr~ is 95% shannonizer by linecount | [23:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | ben_vulpes: That called De Fence | [23:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | lolwut. | [23:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | since when trilema "purports" ? | [23:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: About Qntra | [23:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah | [23:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm. siiince... when qntra purports ? | [23:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | Apparently since https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/716tmr/its_been_nearly_a_week_since_seattles_mayor_quit/dn8rarr/ | [23:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh well. if it was on reddit... | [23:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | "that's barely English, and the only reason "pantsuit" is in there is because of a high correlation with "liberal" thanks to HRC." | [23:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | what's a hrc ? teh pantsuited hilarity ? | [23:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Completely neglecting the whole point of... A couple catholics burried their bishops in little boys and news pushes it decades later | [23:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: AHA, yeah. | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | gotta love how teh jews are still out there, acting as if there's more substance to this supposed "liberal" thing than said hilarity. | [23:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | HRC is how they say "Hillary Clinton" in places they don't want google to associate with Hilary Clinton | [23:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [23:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | o wait, are they "protecting their candidate" ? | [23:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | So it seems. This is just speculation based on observed behavior | [23:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's basic, good thinking such as this that saves elections, i'll have you know. goood thing hilarity still has a chance! | [23:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right, Just like that 83rd trimester abortion can get the girl's modesty back | [23:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | hey, she didn'ti) lose if they don't admit she has! | [23:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | lol | [23:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's how you know they're notii) barristas, either. they don't admit to it, right ? so it's not true. | [23:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | But Trump spoke to the UN so now he won per the rest of the world nao too | [23:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | sometimes i can't help but think if you didn't have me around to provide grounding you'd end up drifting away into some cult or something BingoBoingo. | [23:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | would you like to buy a house together ? | [23:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | i have this friend (ie, chick that was dating hotter guys than me in highschool and never sat with me in cafeteria) that'siii) a real estate agent except she's not closed on anything since 2015. it'd REALLY make my day if I could introduce her to some beta trading in their govt issued paycheck for a govt issued house certificate. | [23:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: Seriously. I could drift away into another cult again! | [23:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | the enjoyable aspect of these empty hollow shells of nothing PURPORTING to be "liberals" or "consumers" or whatever the fuck it is they're purporting to be is that it takes literally 0 effort to parody them into the ground. | [23:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's not even lolcows, more like lol-artesians. | [23:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | Loltisinal! | [23:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | for reals. | [23:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyway, that was all a fucking setup. Look at the real link aggregation site: https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/2140102 | [23:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | The upvoats don't lie. Reddit's been eclipsed hard by the conspirator community | [23:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't think you're allowed to use votes that way. | [23:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | i mean... is that even legal ?! | [23:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, even the top comment is better: "But why would you want to offend this poor, oppressed pedosexual, you bigot? Youre just pedophobic! jewish media" | [23:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | who's who ? | [23:58] |
Category: Logs
