Forum logs for 17 May 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/95DC728AD5B28F4F426EA956024EC2C17DAFBCB097E5F066E18E0716E1B5EDFC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1446...1883 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '192.84.16.219 (ssh-rsa key from 192.84.16.219 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (192-84-16-219.packet8.net. US CA) [00:31]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/95DC728AD5B28F4F426EA956024EC2C17DAFBCB097E5F066E18E0716E1B5EDFC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1623...3859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '192.84.16.219 (ssh-rsa key from 192.84.16.219 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (192-84-16-219.packet8.net. US CA) [00:31]
BingoBoingo: http://i.magaimg.net/img/jjw.png [02:01]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/sears-takes-tool-giant-tti-to-court-as-suppliers-flee/ << Qntra - Sears Takes Tool Giant TTI To Court As Suppliers Flee [02:33]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lel. [03:41]
BingoBoingo: tyvm [03:41]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the morality tale is thus: Big American companies outsourcing to small Chinese upstarts creates Big Chinese companies and small American shell games [03:50]
BingoBoingo: And no, Apple is not as big as Sears was. Apple sells no iHouse, and Apple has never conducted a public service on the scale of Sears donations of toilet paper to the masses that they wrote off as marketing [03:52]
BingoBoingo: Sears also failed to buy Russia [03:52]
phf: “What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016) (quora.com)” [09:28]
phf: i somehow thought that stack overflow programming was a non-reflective activity, sort of like "hello sir madam, howdo i write network program in java??" comments on popular "epoll vs. kqueue performance analysis" posts back in the day [09:31]
phf: apparently not, there are people out there who believe that stack overflow programming is not just a viable strategy, but the only available one :o [09:32]
phf: "people" [09:33]
diana_coman: phf, the sad reality is that "school" nowadays *teaches* kids stack overflow/monkey copy/paste/ you-can-program-without-knowing-maths as "the way to learn" [09:36]
diana_coman: I saw this thing in action and brighter kids effectively perking up when they finally find someone sane to laugh at such idiocy, call it by its name and actually help them understand something in eternal words "it actually MAKES SENSE now!!" [09:37]
phf: i guess that's aligned with the "we moved from SICP to python, because programming is no longer about writing code, but discovering libraries" that's periodically discussed in logs [09:43]
phf: i saw a rambling talk by peter norvig (he called it "as we may program", considering the complete lack of substance that's as bombastic reference as it gets) [09:46]
diana_coman: it certainly fits it perfectly, yes and overall it also fits the more general pattern: the moment everyone gets to do it, one can tell that "it" is a. only a pale shadow of itself, b. going to shit full-speed ahead anyway [09:47]
phf: ...where he made a point that "computer science" has become an empirical science, done through experimentation, and "look it up on stack overflow" is part of the process. i thought he was joking [09:50]
diana_coman: ugh, I can't seem to find a transcript of the thing [09:51]
phf: reading, like some kind of terrorist [09:52]
phf: i doubt there's going to be one, the talk was made at lispnyc, but is otherwise very thin on lisp. ("LISP had exploratory programming, and we need exploratory programming, therefore, you lispers, go and ugh do things!1") i doubt there's any interest to transcribe it. [09:53]
diana_coman: well, 45 minutes to watch the video seem more like 45 minutes wasted tbh the title reference doesn't bode well either [09:58]
asciilifeform: phf: same norvig who wrote ai textbook with 0 lisp [10:01]
asciilifeform: because, presumably, not fashionable [10:01]
phf: well, he also wrote an ai textbook with exemplary lisp [10:01]
asciilifeform: pre-google [10:01]
phf: right [10:01]
asciilifeform: pg also wrote a whole 2 b00kz with lisp! [10:02]
diana_coman: he got... googled and has no more lisp to offer :| [10:02]
phf: there's an earlier talk he made, maybe 10 years ago, where he basically said "we used to do all these analytical algorithms to AI, but turns out you don't need none of that, because we have massive datasets instead." [10:03]
asciilifeform: attempting to understand how process works is for terrorists, aha [10:04]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-17-may-2017#2282749 >> see also >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-18#1615386 [10:05]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 13:47 diana_coman: it certainly fits it perfectly, yes and overall it also fits the more general pattern: the moment everyone gets to do it, one can tell that "it" is a. only a pale shadow of itself, b. going to shit full-speed ahead anyway [10:05]
a111: Logged on 2017-02-18 22:29 asciilifeform: '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.' [10:05]
phf: also doesn't leverage the competitive advantage of google. massive datasets, crowdsourced solutions (hire all the developers, hope something works!1) [10:05]
* phf afk [10:06]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657300 << heh. and the roman "empire" outsourcing to barbarians creates big barbarians and imperial shell game. see also the lulzy story of how the palace mayor became king of paris etc. [10:39]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 07:50 BingoBoingo: Anyways, the morality tale is thus: Big American companies outsourcing to small Chinese upstarts creates Big Chinese companies and small American shell games [10:39]
mircea_popescu: or, for that matter the lulzy story of how us "coalition" works out in practice. "gee, i wonder what happens if we have no soldiers and keep paying arabs to soldier for us...." [10:39]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657303 << "how did hoplite grow self-importance back in lacedemonia ???" [10:40]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 13:28 phf: “What was it like to self-learn programming before Stack Overflow? (2016) (quora.com)” [10:40]
mircea_popescu: it fucking didn't, which is the fucking point. ~IT~ didn't. [10:41]
mircea_popescu: but they're not learning anything, which is to say, as a self-transformative activity. they're "learning" in the sense of "raising awareness" about themselves, which is to say : they expect, or rather act as if they rightfully expected, that the whole world changes so as to accomodate them as they are. that's the whole story of this "learning". [10:44]
mircea_popescu: then they show up at the office and expect it to be "the office", and why should people have them do work, just make an offer already. [10:44]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657308 << aha! [10:45]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 13:37 diana_coman: I saw this thing in action and brighter kids effectively perking up when they finally find someone sane to laugh at such idiocy, call it by its name and actually help them understand something in eternal words "it actually MAKES SENSE now!!" [10:45]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657309 << "i fucking love science" aka "there's so much out there to discover" aka "paradise is moving through space in your livingroom with the big tv and tables everywhere". [10:47]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 13:43 phf: i guess that's aligned with the "we moved from SICP to python, because programming is no longer about writing code, but discovering libraries" that's periodically discussed in logs [10:47]
mircea_popescu: they built star trek, what. victory of socialism! [10:47]
mircea_popescu: worst fucking franchise in history, but whatever, it had subtext about blacks and shit, such art. [10:47]
mircea_popescu: tablets everywhere* [10:47]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657315 << there's very little interest to even ask who the fuck this peter norvig is. i was going to the first time it popped up five lines up, but then i was, eh, whatever. i guess ima ask since it got discussed a little. who the fuck is peter norvig ? [10:50]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 13:53 phf: i doubt there's going to be one, the talk was made at lispnyc, but is otherwise very thin on lisp. ("LISP had exploratory programming, and we need exploratory programming, therefore, you lispers, go and ugh do things!1") i doubt there's any interest to transcribe it. [10:50]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657324 << funnily mirror of the "We used to go out and talk to women, which was interesting, but it turns out you don't need to do all that, as there's all these... um... uh... massive...errr... data..sets, yeah, that's right, massive datasets to explore!" [10:52]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 14:03 phf: there's an earlier talk he made, maybe 10 years ago, where he basically said "we used to do all these analytical algorithms to AI, but turns out you don't need none of that, because we have massive datasets instead." [10:52]
mircea_popescu: story of kid who gave up on dating because he finally discovered masturbation, all hail Saint Elliot Rodgers, the martyr of his people. [10:52]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657329 << no you don't understand, they have really cool offices! google guy was one day walking down the mall to pick up an office, was really fascinated by mcdonalds kid section, said HELLO SIR I WANT HIRE OFFICE HERE PLEASE. [10:54]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 14:05 phf: also doesn't leverage the competitive advantage of google. massive datasets, crowdsourced solutions (hire all the developers, hope something works!1) [10:54]
mircea_popescu: so they installed all the trampolines and tubes and whatnot, and guess what -- the retards spawned by the dumbest generation of autists in history LOVED IT!!11 omaigerd it's literally like being six all over again! there's even stylisized changing station on the wall to remind us of how mom "had to" keep us in diapers till we went to school! OMG LOVE!!! [10:55]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657331 << oh, and speaking of this, i wonder why i want someone in wot to do isp etc. I WONDER! [10:56]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 14:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657300 << heh. and the roman "empire" outsourcing to barbarians creates big barbarians and imperial shell game. see also the lulzy story of how the palace mayor became king of paris etc. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: o btw, re the whole "fbi wars" of trumpreich : http://trilema.com/2013/the-cold-war-experts-over-here-are-having-a-ball-these-days/ (strictly for expert interest) [10:59]
mircea_popescu: 2013, right ? PUBLISHED. online. "nobody knows". oh, who's mp, that guy who pre-leaked the original cable leak by like a day and forced guardian & friends to release ??? NEVER HEARD OF HIM!!11 [11:00]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure he cares. [11:00]
ben_vulpes: in other reddits and silicon valley developer fingertraps https://medium.com/@contact_16315/firebase-costs-increased-by-7-000-81dc0a27271d sure seems to imply that you can ruin the day of 'startups' using 'firebase' by hammering their service with poorly authenticated requests [11:04]
mircea_popescu: i'd ask what firebase is but by now it's getting ridiculous. [11:05]
ben_vulpes: i only have the vaguest idea from #saltminesocial [11:07]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it's good and i should be using it. [11:08]
ben_vulpes: 'saas' thing that...does user related stuff? i have no idea. [11:08]
mircea_popescu: the way scum reproduction works is that when scum's tiny it does dumb shit like this and nobody really cares about it then as it grows up it moves to stealing mysql and naming it something else, like facebook. [11:09]
ben_vulpes: probably tastes great with react native [11:09]
mircea_popescu: ie, the us krill is laughably vulnerable while tiny, sometimes transitions into outrageously mendacious through growing larger. [11:09]
mircea_popescu: items halfway, trying to lie but not very good at it, a la http://trilema.com/2015/sooo-fetlife-is-butthurt/ are pretty much the entirety of pasture. [11:11]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657346 << a fairly well known quisling, [11:43]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 14:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657315 << there's very little interest to even ask who the fuck this peter norvig is. i was going to the first time it popped up five lines up, but then i was, eh, whatever. i guess ima ask since it got discussed a little. who the fuck is peter norvig ? [11:43]
asciilifeform: !#s norvig [11:43]
a111: 20 results for "norvig", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=norvig [11:43]
mircea_popescu: a [11:43]
asciilifeform: google's director of r&d. [11:44]
asciilifeform: at one time, long, long ago, a respectable fella. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-29#1255852 <<< phf 's verbiage endures time well. [11:45]
a111: Logged on 2015-08-29 19:40 phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies [11:45]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-17#1657356 << imho the most lulzy subtext is the tacit admission by washpo et al that wh is bugged [11:45]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-17 14:59 mircea_popescu: o btw, re the whole "fbi wars" of trumpreich : http://trilema.com/2013/the-cold-war-experts-over-here-are-having-a-ball-these-days/ (strictly for expert interest) [11:45]
asciilifeform: ( or how else would they have any clue re 'seekrit meeting' ) [11:45]
mircea_popescu: vory/suka, for the record, is this ancient dispute in ru penal system, whereby it is verboten for respectable criminal to help the government. this going about as far as the jews, dudes won't push a fucking button. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: then stalin gave amnesty for people willing to fight zee germanz, and a bunch went. when they were picked up later for going back to the life... well... there were some philosophical disagreements inside. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i still can't fucking believe the ivan ivanov thing. [11:47]
asciilifeform: hm? [12:06]
mircea_popescu: you recall, the elbrus salesman [12:06]
asciilifeform: baikal [12:12]
asciilifeform: but yea [12:12]
asciilifeform: ( phunphakt : putin recently proclaimed another $maxint grantolade tranche for 'proper clean ru os and iron' . i dare to predict that it will evaporate without a trace just like the last N times . ) [12:13]
mircea_popescu: seems likely. [12:16]
asciilifeform: and as, interestingly, china's likewise did [12:16]
mircea_popescu: "inteligenstia". [12:17]
mircea_popescu: stalin had the right idea., [12:17]
asciilifeform: aha! [12:17]
asciilifeform: asking folx to do honest work without 1) hard ideology + 2) public impalements , [12:17]
asciilifeform: is like asking water to flow uphill. [12:17]
mircea_popescu: quite so. [12:17]
asciilifeform: ( post-su ru Official tagline, 'government without ideology', is hence quite sad joke ) [12:19]
asciilifeform: afaik ~all ENTIRELY-post-su-design ru mil gear -- made by lowest bidder, runs winblowz, good largely for parade [12:20]
asciilifeform: pre-90s -- another matter runs on magnetic cores, transistors the size of your thumb, barbaric but it'll likely still work when archaeologists dig it up [12:20]
mircea_popescu: they tried to copy what they thought the great america was doing. [12:21]
asciilifeform: what it WAS doing in 60s-70s. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: their copy has all the virtues of a xerox of a statue. [12:21]
asciilifeform: believe or not, the copies were of 2 types, the ones made by smart folx who gave a shit -- were in many cases equals, or even actual improvements (e.g. su single-chip pdp) . the others... were done by same folx who pilfer ru budget today [12:22]
asciilifeform: (elbrus et al) [12:22]
mircea_popescu: right. stalin had the right idea -- some remnants even visible under putin. [12:22]
asciilifeform: though, further twist -- the ~original~ elbrus was a spiffy superscalar machine that actually beat usa state of the art at the time (cdc) [12:22]
mircea_popescu: but the best thing that you could do as google manager is, have swat teams round up all the employees in a field somewhere, randomly shoot 10% and tell the rest the next round of shooting is in six weeks, they'd better impress. [12:23]
asciilifeform: iirc this roman custom is somewhat misunderstood by modern folx -- they actually thought they were fixing a rusted ~luck~ by offing the ~unlucky~ [12:24]
asciilifeform: but perhaps this too was disinfo [12:24]
* asciilifeform not familiar with the primary source [12:25]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: they attempt to emulate this in safe-space style with "stack rankings" [12:25]
mircea_popescu: vlad tepes famously offered lavish banquet for the city poor (which at the time meant, men crippled so they can not work, are reduced to begging). he gave them ~ two hours, after which burned down the thing / guards cut down anyone trying to get out. [12:25]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc i translated that one here [12:25]
mircea_popescu: efficient market hypothesis -- he correctly judged that by the time music is being played and dancing is going on, the faux beggars had pushed out the real ones. [12:25]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-16#509574 << thread [12:25]
a111: Logged on 2014-02-16 23:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fave story re: tepes: 'Некогда же обедоваше под трупием мертвых человек, иже на колие саженых, множество бо округ стола его он же среди их ядяше и тем услажашеся. Слуга же его, иже пред ним ясти ставляше, смраду оного не могии тер [12:25]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes aha. dun work otherwise. [12:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but the usual retellings don't include the EMH reference, there's no explanation as to why it worked. [12:26]
asciilifeform: tru!! [12:26]
mircea_popescu: it works for the same reason ratios don't work in prisons etc. [12:26]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the romans didn't think. the romans did. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: the romans specifically and explicitly despised men that thought. [12:27]
asciilifeform: aha! [12:27]
mircea_popescu: they'd call you greek. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the most important thing being that they must be ~shot~. it's not that you lose "standing in the profession you were befouling". you must lose unrelated things. [12:29]
mircea_popescu: don't like the guy's driving, shoot his kid. sure, "kid is innocent", "that was uncalled for" bla bla. point fucking remains -- now he has to make another one, which takes no driving. at driving -- he sucks, so he can't appreciate what that means. putatively at other thing he doesn't suck nearly as much, so he CAN appreciate. [12:30]
asciilifeform: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-29#996930 . [12:30]
a111: Logged on 2015-01-29 05:22 asciilifeform: as in, hot iron. [12:30]
mircea_popescu: this is what education is all about : putting the inept's ineptitude in terms he can understand. simile is the fundamental device thereof. [12:30]
mircea_popescu: and the simile is, "if your lungs and liver and etcetera worked the way you code, you'd be just as dead as this guy." [12:31]
ben_vulpes: not giving the practice any sort of legs to stand on, merely pointing out the american plastic version of another correct republican thing. [12:32]
mircea_popescu: yee [12:32]
ben_vulpes: worm relegated to the bowels of amazon because never ranked over three, and never at risk of firing because never ranked at two is happy to munch turds forever. [12:33]
mircea_popescu: oya. [12:33]
mircea_popescu: he even has time to "human knowledge on quora" [12:33]
ben_vulpes: oh and participate in #uraniummine social [12:33]
ben_vulpes: we call these "lykkins" [12:34]
mircea_popescu: from lychen ? [12:34]
ben_vulpes: from a worms handle. [12:34]
ben_vulpes: but yes, nearly self-parodic. [12:34]
mircea_popescu: the amusing thing being that these are in the vast majority male. for all the black eyes women get for free. [12:35]
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-17#511308 << the tepes tale in question, from earlier. ) [12:35]
a111: Logged on 2014-02-17 15:20 asciilifeform: try this one on for size then. 'once drakula proclaimed: let it be known throughout all of his lands, that all who are old, or invalid, or diseased, or poor, shall come to him. and so came to him an untold multitude of beggars and vagabonds, awaiting generous alms. he ordered them all brought to a house for this purpose built, and had food and wine brought to them. they feasted amidst great merriment. drakula t [12:35]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/things-that-happened-to-sam-chapter-5-true-to-his-word/ << Trilema - Things That Happened To Sam. Chapter 5 - True to his word [12:36]
ben_vulpes: the female lykkins get impregnated by the male lykkins and then spend all their time bitching about how his salary isnt enough for her and her spawns needs instead of you know buckling down and cooking, cleaning, making the shelves and other fixtures herself like any wife worth having. [12:39]
mircea_popescu: oya. [12:39]
asciilifeform: !#s dependopotamus [12:39]
a111: 17 results for "dependopotamus", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dependopotamus [12:39]
mircea_popescu: if anyone's curious, the "drakula" thing is phonetic misnotation. the guy's father, vlad, was surnamed dracul /drakul/. drac means devil in modern romanian, but it also meant dragon at the time (1400s). dracul is articled form, -ul is how you make "the x" from "an x". the man got the surname because of german decoration he wore, which to locals looked like dragon. [12:40]
mircea_popescu: now the ~kid~, was named draculea /drəkulea/. this is a diminutive, exactly in the way "little boots" worked in latin. the term'd denote exactly that, little dragon-guy spawn. [12:41]
asciilifeform: aha caligula [12:42]
asciilifeform: (boots) [12:43]
mircea_popescu: if alf had a kid and he was worth a ro name he'd probably be alfisor [12:43]
mircea_popescu: anyway, but the misnotaiton : it's not /a/ it's /ə/. dr/ə/kula. [12:44]
mircea_popescu: now you have fodder for dinner party. [12:44]
asciilifeform: in other olds, http://fatphil.org/maths/AKS << observe : almost all of the links -- dead. [12:45]
mircea_popescu: heh. the web progresses, alf. what do you want all those old websites for. [12:46]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure they didn't even have proper large text. [12:46]
mircea_popescu: (notice how this cycle goes ? i recall a 1990s large font craze also.) [12:46]
asciilifeform: http://yves.gallot.pagesperso-orange.fr/src appears to be the only surviver. [12:46]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: a three stroke engine?! [12:52]
mircea_popescu: ikr ? [12:53]
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you ben_vulpes , i'm a writer not an engineer. i don't know so much about engines, just seemed to me like the right number. why, is it wrong ? [12:53]
ben_vulpes: not wrong so much as very fittingly /silly/ [12:54]
mircea_popescu: (amusingly -- flaubert allegedly spent $longinterval trying to decide which temperature reading is the correct number, between 19 and 17 or somesuch. or maybe it was proust. anyway.) [12:55]
mircea_popescu: also amusingly, but on purpose, this sam story is becoming quite the intertextual lulz. it's a joy. [12:56]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/things-that-happened-to-sam-chapter-6-that-was-too-much/ << Trilema - Things That Happened To Sam. Chapter 6 - That was too much [14:07]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2012/o-hai-i-was-justing-doing-a-penetration-test-of-your-site/#comment-122056 << ftr these are bots [14:11]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: filter must not be 100% [14:11]
mircea_popescu: no i know. i find them amusing. [14:12]
asciilifeform: lolk [14:12]
mircea_popescu: moreover : can you prove they're not redditards ? how exactly. [14:12]
mircea_popescu: adds to the amusement. is it me who talks to bots unknowingly ? or is it... [14:12]
asciilifeform: occam's razor suggests bot vs redditor-who-liked-trilema [14:14]
asciilifeform: ( also where did it put the viagra link ?? or did mircea_popescu strip it manually ) [14:14]
trinque: asciilifeform claiming a distinction must still point to the distinction! [14:14]
asciilifeform: trinque: redditus is indistinguishable with naked eye from perl script, news at 11 [14:15]
mircea_popescu: i did not strip, hence the lulz. [14:15]
asciilifeform: ( with the 1 diff that a spambot has some sort of constructive purpose, if only to detune filters, whereas redditus has none ) [14:15]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what can i tell you ben_vulpes , i'm a writer not an engineer. i don't know so much about engines, just seemed to me like the right number. why, is it wrong ? << This actually might be most right [14:15]
mircea_popescu: leaving the aesthetics aside for a minute to focus on the technical -- i imagine these are testers, ie, "whether it works". no links. [14:15]
mircea_popescu: lel [14:15]
asciilifeform: hm likely [14:16]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this theory of yours is flawed. there is no such thing as purpose in nature. [14:16]
asciilifeform: well yes. redditus is a wild beast [14:16]
mircea_popescu: purpose is an after the fact construction. like "religious artefacts" [14:16]
asciilifeform: spambot is an artifact [14:16]
asciilifeform: presumably constructed deliberately [14:16]
mircea_popescu: pasteurization exists not because l. pasteur WANTED TO {preserve milk get recognition fuck more chicks} but because pasteur COULD. [14:17]
mircea_popescu: which is why a good hospital is the one where the doctor says "well mr p, here's what we could do to you" as opposed to "here's what we want to do " [14:17]
asciilifeform: 'we do what we must, because we can' (tm)(r)(valve) [14:18]
mircea_popescu: dun dun DUN [14:18]
mircea_popescu: but -- wild beast "purpose", to reproduce, to eat, etc. [14:18]
mircea_popescu: the clear proof (for the expert) that purpose is meaningless is the simple fact that if you accept it, then it follows as universal, whereas if you don't accept it, it's universally absent. this is always and everywhere the fate of null notions. [14:19]
mircea_popescu: once it's obvious that either everything has a purpose or nothing does, it's therefore established there is no such thing as purpose. [14:20]
mircea_popescu: now, let us quote that idiocy with "either everyone has justice, or no one does" ? or leave it for later. [14:20]
asciilifeform: i can still observe sharpened stick and guess, likely correctly, that it was made so as to go into flesh vs different stick, that - again correctly - i will say broke off a tree, by the wind. [14:21]
asciilifeform: 'purpose' in this sense is not an attribute of the object, but of the object-and-maker system. see also the thread re 'rng entropy' [14:22]
mircea_popescu: and be right some of the time, and write the regexp for it. [14:22]
asciilifeform: lol [14:22]
mircea_popescu: aka "we don't need ai, we got google data!!!" [14:22]
mircea_popescu: works well enough, sure. [14:22]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform ain't in the mechanizing-away-your-brain business. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: but purpose alfie! purpose! [14:22]
asciilifeform: 'what colour are your bits' [14:24]
asciilifeform: upstack : iirc in one of n. stephenson's tales, future spamola is decoupled entirely from human hands, is shat forth by long-unmanned and fully autonomous self-propagating 'ai virii' [14:26]
asciilifeform: and nobody can remember even why it ever appeared. [14:26]
mircea_popescu: sort of like background radiation making life impossible. [14:27]
mircea_popescu: except -- of the mind. [14:27]
asciilifeform: the lulzy bit is that lem's future is the actual one -- where buncha idiots get brain-wrecked into believing themselves robots , while similar number of similar idiots -- believe that they are served by robots, etc [14:29]
asciilifeform: ('futurological congress') [14:29]
asciilifeform: 'the fact that the back wheels were attached to the outside of the body rather than any kind of axle, as per the latest fashions and discoveries of French technology at the time' << l0l!!! [14:31]
* asciilifeform falls down [14:31]
mircea_popescu: >D [14:31]
mircea_popescu: i try to have a little for everyone! [14:32]
asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, asciilifeform recently investigated state of the art re primality testing, and did not like what he found [14:47]
mircea_popescu: did same cca 2015 ims. [14:49]
asciilifeform: for instance, i am no longer sure about http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525264 . [15:00]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 15:26 asciilifeform: (interest in the subj is slim, on account of miller-rabin probabilistic test provably converging - i.e. probability of catastrophic failure can be made smaller than probability of machine flattened by asteroid the same night) [15:00]
asciilifeform: because the actual proof of this ~in re the practical incarnation~ appears to be absent. [15:00]
asciilifeform: in other oddities, https://factordb.com/status.php [15:03]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/things-that-happened-to-sam-chapter-7-the-actual-paddling/ << Trilema - Things That Happened To Sam. Chapter 7 - The actual paddling [15:09]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [16:28]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1780.0, vol: 17463.97575161 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1752.649, vol: 8043.95471 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1850.4, vol: 15757.76775439 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1566.931998, vol: 10950.31920000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1820.26, vol: 7552.18450898 | Volume-weighted last average: 1760.93007647 [16:28]
ben_vulpes: why is it crashing [16:31]
BingoBoingo: What is crashing anymore? [16:33]
mircea_popescu: because we didn't take seriously whatever random dork last made a social media post about things and matters and saving bitcoin. [16:41]
mircea_popescu: what was it ? [16:41]
* mircea_popescu goes to check [16:41]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1657058 there we go [16:41]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 18:40 shinohai: https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/an-open-letter-to-bitcoin-miners-c260467e1f0 <<< /me doesn't know why he lolz so much at smacktards that write this drivel. [16:41]
mircea_popescu: i hope it shall be a lesson for all of us! [16:42]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, the venerable rat shack, american retail chain, that survived great depression ( founded 1921 ) -- is finally dying. ( for 2nd time ! 1st time had last-minute reprieve, a telco bought it ) [16:43]
mircea_popescu: which is this ? [16:43]
asciilifeform: these were the folx who sold resistors etc for their weight in gold. and when this did not bring in megabux, added phone and various rubbish. [16:43]
asciilifeform: 'radio shack' [16:43]
mircea_popescu: ah ah. [16:43]
asciilifeform: i went in, everything incl. furniture is for sale [16:44]
mircea_popescu: hey, the great again is going great, all the us "corporation!!!" turds popping like overstuffed frogs. [16:44]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform bought up the lithium thionyl chloride batteries, for pennies [16:45]
* mircea_popescu wonders if he'll actualy be going on american safari this decade, no less. [16:45]
asciilifeform: only 1 problem mircea_popescu -- there's very little meat to be had on this safari. [16:45]
asciilifeform: that anyone would want to eat, that is [16:45]
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't mind chasing some usians around a little from a truck before finally shooting to maim and leaving them for dead. [16:45]
asciilifeform: sport hunt - yes [16:45]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/hings-that-happened-to-sam-chapter-8-sam-finally-gathered/ << Trilema - hings That Happened To Sam. Chapter 8 - Sam finally gathered [16:45]
asciilifeform: meat hunt - problematic [16:45]
mircea_popescu: that's what safari is all about. [16:46]
mircea_popescu: remember back when obamschev days, apple had like 30bn hoard of cash, the "economy" had "recovered" from crisis etc ? [16:47]
mircea_popescu: how well it was going just before croaking! [16:47]
asciilifeform: not only this: the very same ratshack actually died once (i went to the same liquidation sales, bought the furniture, etc) and then somehow came BACK from the grave, (no prizes for guessing how -- printolade) undead, to live for another 3y [16:48]
mircea_popescu: even unemployment was down. nobody knew what inflation was... [16:48]
asciilifeform: it was a sort of canary - dying co. since 1990s, propped up by hell-knows-what, 'brand value', 'must maintain business-as-usual', i have nfi [16:49]
asciilifeform: a little like how reddit lives on, unharmed by the depth of its -ev [16:49]
mircea_popescu: kinda hard to sell the whole "corporate and venture capital" VHS tape to idiot kids considering "their future" if the radio shack goes bankrupt. [16:50]
asciilifeform: ( who pays for the servers, the censor monkeys, etc. ? ) [16:50]
mircea_popescu: o no, you don't understand, REDDIT NOTES!!!1 [16:50]
mircea_popescu: both legal and sane, like the dual aspect of particles. [16:50]
asciilifeform: can still do -- at lolmart. which is how it died -- or how westinghouse died, usg decided that 1 GE suffices [16:50]
asciilifeform: and that 1 bank suffices. etc [16:50]
mircea_popescu: should be funny because bureaucracy also seems to think 1 microsoft and 1 intel also suffice. [16:51]
asciilifeform: phunphakt : asciilifeform bought his first soldering iron on setting foot in usa, and the various junk to do with it, at ye olde ratshack [16:52]
mircea_popescu: "leveraging the synergies" or how's it called, "ironing out the waste and inefficiency" ? anyway. why need apple when has windows and intel ? samsung can make the tablets as usg.intel profit center. [16:52]
asciilifeform: and why sell electronic parts : Only A Terrorist would want such a thing. [16:53]
asciilifeform: ( fwiw modern konsoomer devices have ~0 scavengeable bits. ) [16:53]
mircea_popescu: proper research should be conducted in proper lab with note from hitler and those inept access control lulz. [16:54]
asciilifeform: i suspect that in not too long, ratshack will be remembered the way the folx who sold, openly and for cash on barrel, chemical glassware are remembered - which is to say not at all, 'you gotta be shitting me, there were never' [16:54]
mircea_popescu: lel [16:54]
mircea_popescu: this no longer exists ? [16:55]
asciilifeform: not in 'civilized' world, no. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: pretty sure i took girl through walk among erlenmeyer glasses etc. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: ah. [16:55]
asciilifeform: not on asciilifeform's home planet, either -- there folx simply stole glass from work [16:55]
asciilifeform: but legend has it that usa at one time had such shops. [16:56]
mircea_popescu: existed chemical supply store, you went and bought. [16:56]
mircea_popescu: i bought stuff in such! [16:56]
* asciilifeform believes. [16:56]
mircea_popescu: mortar and pestle, graded pipettes, tube for your own burning, bunsen burners you could hook to same thing as stove, etc. [16:56]
mircea_popescu: kickass burners, too, mechanically adjustable for flame temp! [16:57]
* asciilifeform has one [16:57]
asciilifeform: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com << for archaeologists. [17:02]
asciilifeform: and woah, NOT PDF !! [17:03]
* asciilifeform floored [17:03]
asciilifeform: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1993/h169.html << 486! [17:07]
ben_vulpes: tandy! [17:09]
asciilifeform: aaha [17:09]
asciilifeform: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1994/h192.html << moar tandy. [17:09]
asciilifeform: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1994/h049.html << remember these ? analogue! [17:10]
asciilifeform: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1995/h188.html << watch how they slowly switched from bundling useful/fun things, to microshit appz [17:12]
ben_vulpes: no i don't actually remember any of these marvels [17:13]
ben_vulpes: i was raised under the glorious unified apple toolchain [17:14]
asciilifeform: that one was to be found at, e.g., 'comp usa' ( i sometimes went there, marveled ) [17:14]
asciilifeform: marveled at the 50 $ ( good money in those days ) scsi cables etc [17:14]
asciilifeform: 'what's the use of a comp with no command prompt' -- asciilifeform 20y ago ( and now ! ) [17:15]
asciilifeform: in other olds, http://www.techlib.com/science/xraydefender.htm [17:36]
asciilifeform: ^ this is a costly diode btw. 150 $ in small qty. [17:37]
ben_vulpes: in omgwtfbbqs https://promisesaplus.com/ [17:56]
asciilifeform: josephsmithing of dataflow, lol [17:57]
asciilifeform: snoar. [17:57]
asciilifeform: in very other olds, http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/Pseudoprimes/index-2-to-64.html [18:00]
asciilifeform: in not-so-olds >> http://e-maxx.ru/algo/bpsw << not only algos but benchmarks ! because not anglotards. [18:06]
asciilifeform: whereas in anglotardistan, we have : http://aperiodical.com/2016/03/i-bought-isthisprime-com [18:08]
asciilifeform: 'This year, I’ve been thinking about prime numbers, and my hosting provider has run another sale on domain names. So, I’ve bought isthisprime.com. You can probably guess what I’ve made it do.' [18:08]
asciilifeform: didjaknow. [18:08]
asciilifeform: in other idiocies, https://sale.urbit.org is selling address space, this time Officially, and for btc. ( what good scamola ain't sold for btc ) . ( link won't display unless you enter code. 8112.7bd0.7ae6.6f17.b65d.3cb5 should work . ) [18:27]
asciilifeform: https://sale.urbit.org/#legal-risk << lulzy, from same [18:28]
ben_vulpes: i wonder if my old ship still works on their network [18:34]
mircea_popescu: in other news, wtf are they talking about, "death threat." they call it "life insurance", why the fuck is it a death threat. it should be a life threat. [18:35]
mircea_popescu: not like dude's threatening to go around the cemetery and make you be alive against your will... [18:35]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did yarvin / urbit EVER do anything other than selling "space" of various description ? it's like reddit by now, wut. [18:37]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what else could he possibly sell. [18:43]
mircea_popescu: !~google things that sam sold [18:44]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 15 Best and Worst Deals at Sam's Club | GOBankingRates: <https://www.gobankingrates.com/personal-finance/10-best-worst-deals-sams-club/> Natalie & Sam | Equality Now: <http://www.equalitynow.org/campaigns/trafficking-survivor-stories/natalie-sam> Costco, Amazon, Sam's Club: Strangest Supersized Purchases ...: <http://time.com/money/4426128/costco-bjs-amazon-supersize-bulk-purchases/ [18:44]
mircea_popescu: heh. [18:44]
* asciilifeform looks up the latest names : [18:45]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: he wrote a browser for pre ios mobile devices, it funded some half-decade of reading, fathering, beach-shitting. [18:45]
asciilifeform: bottom 8bits he now calls 'galaxy', each one gets 8bits of 'star' [18:45]
mircea_popescu: in the sense that kramerica industries aka the new york living wage dept funded a decade of kramer's reading and beach shitting. [18:46]
mircea_popescu: dude also wrote a book. about coffee tables. [18:46]
asciilifeform: so asciilifeform's sold for 4.5 btc. today urbit wants 500 usd worth of btc for ~star~. [18:46]
asciilifeform: so massive sense of 'to the moon', apparently, among the adherents. [18:47]
mircea_popescu: well of course it's sinking, wtf. fiatola turds. [18:47]
asciilifeform: that ain't a sinking [18:47]
ben_vulpes: b-but limited supplies mircea_popescu ! [18:47]
asciilifeform: 256 stars per galaxy [18:47]
mircea_popescu: oh, your galaxy sold for 4.5 ? [18:47]
asciilifeform: aha [18:47]
ben_vulpes: what not sinking, that's a tidy pile of usd is it not? [18:48]
mircea_popescu: hey, by the time nobody's buying the blades of grass, this uppity tortilla v2.0 will be just about ready for the abstruse tardstalk posts. [18:48]
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1352 << subj [18:48]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 500 / 1800 * 256 / 4.5 [18:48]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 500 / 1800 * 256 / 4.5 = 15.802469135802468 [18:48]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes 1580% !!11 GROWTH!!! [18:48]
mircea_popescu: could be an apple, all this putative equivalency bs. [18:49]
* asciilifeform has nfi who , if anyone , is buying these nao [18:49]
asciilifeform: or how many, etc [18:49]
mircea_popescu: same as then. you bought right ? [18:49]
asciilifeform: fuck no [18:49]
mircea_popescu: o really ? wow. i am so shocked. [18:49]
asciilifeform: recall, i was handed one as prize [18:49]
asciilifeform: for solving a riddle [18:49]
mircea_popescu: it's almost like that tyime when mp said silk market is a joke and then it turned out couldn't sell a pound of coke over xmas. [18:49]
mircea_popescu: SERIOUS BIZNIS! GROWTH!! ETC! [18:50]
asciilifeform: ( then sold it to infamous schmuck. wonder what became of him ) [18:50]
mircea_popescu: i wonder what became of schmuck who bought the silk road pound of coke. [18:50]
mircea_popescu: it's almost like i might suspect it was sold by fed coke repository and bought by fed coke repository. [18:50]
asciilifeform: i was abouttosay [18:50]
asciilifeform: he put it back in the evidence room with the other sandwiches [18:50]
mircea_popescu: to be sold later as part of "sting operation". [18:51]
asciilifeform: ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629952 ) [18:51]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 22:32 asciilifeform: 'one time we got lost in the woods, and i was afraid that i would have to eat Tippy. then we were rescued, and i put Tippy back into the fridge, next to the other sandwiches.' [18:51]
ben_vulpes: p-pound of cocaine? [18:51]
asciilifeform: i thought it was supposed to be a whole kg [18:52]
mircea_popescu: yes. [18:52]
ben_vulpes: who even. [18:52]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they use metric in tardlands now ? [18:52]
ben_vulpes: the only retards who sell drugs by the pound even in tardlandia are the potheads. [18:52]
mircea_popescu: whatever, considering the "Fake it til lyou might eventually make it" attitude prevalent among the herd, it migh've been a nickle bag everyone kept pretending. [18:52]
* asciilifeform not up to date on subj [18:52]
asciilifeform: hey gabriel_laddel ! [18:53]
asciilifeform: in what unit is it sold ! [18:53]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes actually, drugs reach market by the ton, so that's evidently false. [18:53]
asciilifeform: yes but long tonne or short ?!!111 [18:53]
ben_vulpes: metric or imperial? [18:53]
mircea_popescu: lol [18:53]
mircea_popescu: ima call you engineers like i mean it. [18:53]
asciilifeform: ( are there disengineers ? from disingenuous ) [18:54]
mircea_popescu: anyway, that was the original "sting" re silk road, some narc pretended to be a seller there ("hacked account, ie social engineered) and tried to sell pound of coke, nobody was buying so dork in charge decided to buy it on his own accouint. to "save face", because apparently "drug marketplace" that can't place a pound somehow has some face to be saved [18:54]
mircea_popescu: ~all comes back to the eternal "i'm a dog that thinks on the internet nobody can tell i'm a dog." [18:54]
asciilifeform: i thought it was supposed to be 'radio shack' business model, which sell penny resistors for $2 ea. [18:55]
ben_vulpes: i still don't buy this imperial unit drug trade thing, but never having seen either metric or us tonne of any kind of product, will have to defer to those claiming knowledge [18:55]
mircea_popescu: are we talking talking or are we talking business ? [18:55]
asciilifeform: that sr was to cut up the kg and sell at 1000% margin to folx who want to sit at home and get via the post [18:55]
ben_vulpes: i am talking business [18:55]
* asciilifeform has nfi, and will bbl, off to visit last gasp of a ratshack [18:56]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes are trucks in the us weighted in metric or dumbass ? [18:56]
ben_vulpes: this, dumbass [18:57]
ben_vulpes: i understand "reach the market" mircea_popescu [18:58]
mircea_popescu: business! [18:58]
ben_vulpes: tangentially, i luled at "horned" [18:59]
ben_vulpes: in latest sam [18:59]
mircea_popescu: >D [18:59]
ben_vulpes: will sam an hero?! [19:00]
ben_vulpes: tenterhooks [19:00]
mircea_popescu: what's a tenterhook ? [19:00]
ben_vulpes: ~edge of seat [19:00]
mircea_popescu: ah. tbh haven't quite decided yet. [19:00]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/things-that-happened-to-sam-chapter-8-sam-finally-gathered/ << Trilema - Things That Happened To Sam. Chapter 8 - Sam finally gathered [19:01]
* ben_vulpes did not expect a response [19:01]
ben_vulpes: do find it funny that mircea_popescu eschews the "muh characters have a mind of their own!" line [19:03]
mircea_popescu: well it is third person. [19:09]
mod6: i gotta catch up with latest sa [19:09]
mod6: m [19:09]
mircea_popescu: make sure you got tissues! [19:10]
mod6: heheh. ok! [19:12]
mod6: Here's the results from the second run of FG #5: http://www.mod6.net/fg/fg-test/fg5.ent_run2.txt http://www.mod6.net/fg/fg-test/fg5.dieharder_run2.txt [19:23]
mod6: last run is underway... [19:23]
mircea_popescu: and in other random, isn't it funny that for all the millions of dorks going about finding "contradictions in the bible" there can't be had a single dork going about seeking "contradictions in wikipedia" ? [20:07]
mircea_popescu: almost as if it were the case the whole "contradictions" bs is really a subcase of "unearthing hypocrisy", ie the traditional codeword of the inept adolescent "fighting" with authority. [20:08]
mircea_popescu: because why should there be any! [20:08]
ben_vulpes: a BUILDING full of feeble minded liberals [21:50]
ben_vulpes: and it takes ME [21:50]
ben_vulpes: LOSING MY PATIENCE with the NOISE WHEN I GO TO PISS [21:50]
ben_vulpes: to fix the UNENDING STREAM of precious bull run DRINKING WATER FLOWING THROUGH THE TOILET [21:50]
ben_vulpes: and i didn't even need to bring any tools! or wire to extend the chain! [21:51]
ben_vulpes: JUST UN FUCKING KINK IT [21:51]
ben_vulpes: and LO [21:51]
ben_vulpes: the waste has now STOPPED [21:51]
ben_vulpes: on a floor where very nearly every door features a black lives matter and "in our democracy love wins" [21:52]
ben_vulpes: and yet nobody except for the guy who benefits barely an iota from the fixing of the externality shoveling appears to give the slightest shit about the wasting of the single greatest blessing after my dick this metropolis has ever enjoyed [21:53]
ben_vulpes: i will be SURE to listen VERY CLOSELY the next time a portlander has something to say about environmental justice and global warming. [21:54]
asciilifeform: where are you ben_vulpes [22:30]
asciilifeform: aand why. [22:32]
mircea_popescu: i dunno but sounds like they might've vaporised something in that wc. [22:36]
asciilifeform: whereas i finally have a quadracode reader. courtesy of an ex-ratshack's cash register. [22:36]
mircea_popescu: cool. [22:39]
asciilifeform: !!up fromdeedbot [23:23]
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes. [23:23]
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