Forum logs for 13 Oct 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

thickasthieves	:)	[00:01]
thickasthieves	i really dont see soliciting leads and leaks as something related to the size of your britches anyway	[00:02]
thickasthieves	it's more indicative of what kinda place youre running	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	leads and leaks are not much to do with pr bs	[00:03]
thickasthieves	well some PR is news	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[00:03]
thickasthieves	myes.	[00:04]
thickasthieves	if coinbiz.io raises $1b in venture capital and releases a press release informing the world, some bitcoiners might be interested in that as a news development, no?	[00:05]
kakobrekla	only when derp is issued	[00:09]
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mircea_popescu	i guess what you mean is that the better pr is built atop of news	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	sure, but anyway.	[00:10]
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thestringpuller	what's the point of a bitcoin company raising fiat capital if they can't use it to purchase btc	[00:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00073873 = 6.1315 BTC [-]	[00:51]
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*	assbot gives voice to Adlai	[00:56]
Adlai	chetty: what does "sterilize cash" mean?	[00:57]
Adlai	autodesk are actually moving towards open source for their newer products, although since it's a bottom-up effort, existing products will remain closed source indefinitely	[00:58]
*	Adlai worked there for a while	[00:58]
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xanthyos	i found a warez copy of autocad for a teacher of a class i took in high school, and he said that i'd get an A no matter what	[01:00]
xanthyos	in retrospect, what an irresponsible teacher. i learned nothing about cad use and played the hamster dance all semester long	[01:00]
*	Adlai wasn't aware that the hamster dance could be anything but danced	[01:01]
wyrdmantis	btcd up and running! sweet!	[01:01]
xanthyos	it was a meme back in 1999	[01:01]
xanthyos	played a section of the opening music to disney's animated robin hood	[01:02]
xanthyos	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6TzAQXVpB8	[01:03]
assbot	Original Hampster Dance from 1997 (hamsters dancing online) - YouTube	[01:03]
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thickasthieves	;;ticker	[01:16]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 380.07, Best ask: 381.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.93000, Last trade: 382.22, 24 hour volume: 13450.59317102, 24 hour low: 354.71, 24 hour high: 383.01, 24 hour vwap: 365.375474836	[01:16]
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chetty	chetty: what does "sterilize cash" mean?//people are getting worried about 'germs' getting passed around on money	[01:17]
bounce	i have no idea what their codes look like, i go by "is there anything past the address". in this case www.amazon.in/God-Gamer-Ravi-Subramanian-ebook/dp/B00MY74DJG << makes me think that's an affiliate code. << the only thing that actually matters is the item code; what looks like the title is replacable fluff.	[01:18]
Adlai	one of my earliest memories of being factually incorrect is being informed that cash is the dirtiest object i touch on a daily basis	[01:18]
*	Adlai thought it was batteries or something. dunno, this was in preschool.	[01:19]
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Adlai	expired batteries are pretty gross though. i'd rather throw out an appliance than clean a bay that held expired batteries.	[01:20]
xanthyos	Zechariah 9:9New King James Version (NKJV)	[01:21]
xanthyos	The Coming King	[01:21]
xanthyos	9 .Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!	[01:21]
xanthyos	Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!	[01:21]
xanthyos	Behold, your King is coming to you;	[01:21]
xanthyos	He is just and having salvation,	[01:21]
xanthyos	Lowly and riding on a donkey,	[01:21]
xanthyos	A colt, the foal of a donkey.	[01:21]
xanthyos	hillary clinton	[01:21]
bounce	what with the sermon?	[01:22]
xanthyos	i meant for it to all paste as one line	[01:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00073898 = 7.7223 BTC [+]	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	bounce ah bitbet style huh	[01:24]
Adlai	that still doesn't answer bounce's question :P	[01:24]
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Adlai	any of you watching the th1btc drama?	[01:28]
Adlai	background: bitfinex created a cloud mining contract for a fixed time period, so its value should continuously decrease... but by making it possible to trade and loan as margin, they've created quite a bizarre asset which has everybody in the forums and reddit screaming about manipulation now	[01:29]
danielpbarron	xanthyos, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2014#595687 << scroll up for context	[01:30]
assbot	Logged on 31-03-2014 20:40:50; mircea_popescu: artifexd i dunno, it's been illo tempore policy that people accidentally spamming or otherwise unintentionally misbehave contribute to the port fund	[01:30]
Adlai	my theory is there's no single manipulator. traders want to short, shorting requires borrowing the contract, borrowing requires lenders, lending requires buying. so trader A has to buy before trader B can short.	[01:30]
Adlai	rather than shorts causing a sell today and a buy later, shorts here require a buy then sell, and later on a buy followed by a sell of the lender cashing out	[01:31]
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chetty	uhoh now this is serious:http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/ebola-chocolate-industry-africa-effects-111809.html	[01:35]
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*	Adlai had chocolate for dinner, shit	[01:39]
kakobrekla	Adlai whats the drama	[01:41]
dub	obola	[01:41]
Adlai	chocolate will be the vector for the globola outbreak	[01:41]
kakobrekla	no i mean any of you watching the th1btc drama?	[01:42]
Adlai	oh, multiple threads full of lemmings crying manipulation. i hadn't paid this thing any attention until i saw this enough times to be sick of it.	[01:42]
Adlai	(second this refers to cries of manipulation)	[01:43]
kakobrekla	ah	[01:43]
kakobrekla	i guess they are too smart to be here	[01:43]
Adlai	https://pay.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/2j082z/th1_contract_manipulation_do_not_short/ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=802718.msg9177198#msg9177198	[01:43]
assbot	TH1 Contract Manipulation - Do not short : BitcoinMarkets	[01:44]
assbot	TH1BTC Speculation Thread - Bitfinex Cloud Mining Contract	[01:44]
Adlai	right, they're busy making money off telepathically preempting The Manipulator	[01:44]
*	Adlai is just eyeing that spread	[01:45]
thestringpuller	~_~	[01:48]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[01:48]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 380.71, Best ask: 380.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.28000, Last trade: 381.0, 24 hour volume: 13751.74284801, 24 hour low: 354.71, 24 hour high: 383.6, 24 hour vwap: 366.149981911	[01:48]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[01:48]
nubbins`	Adlai, chetty uh.. sterilization has a specific meaning in economics (not sure if you're having a lel or not)	[01:48]
thestringpuller	well at least the drama is affecting the price	[01:48]
thestringpuller	nubbins`: so no more posters :(	[01:48]
thestringpuller	Poster lost in the sands of time forever.	[01:48]
xanthyos	will there be demand for blood diamonds if there's any chance it was ebola-contaminated blood?	[01:48]
Adlai	nubbins`: sometimes context-free lels are the best?	[01:48]
nubbins`	Adlai always	[01:49]
nubbins`	thestringpuller :\| okay, you can have mine	[01:49]
thestringpuller	Nah nubbins` !!!	[01:49]
thestringpuller	you too nice	[01:49]
thestringpuller	I'll just take refund/credit on future project or something	[01:49]
thestringpuller	we can discuss later	[01:49]
Adlai	there will always be demand for blood diamonds, you can't put the Magnificent Bitcoin Gem on a ring	[01:50]
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assbot	ninjashogun +v failed; L1: 0, L2: -4	[01:58]
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thestringpuller	!up ninjashogun	[01:58]
*	assbot gives voice to ninjashogun	[01:58]
ninjashogun	thanks	[01:58]
thestringpuller	;;getturst assbot ninjashogun	[01:59]
gribble	Error: "getturst" is not a valid command.	[01:59]
thestringpuller	;;gettrust assbot ninjashogun	[01:59]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask ninjashogun!~User@unaffiliated/ninjashogun. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ninjashogun \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun \| Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014	[01:59]
thestringpuller	wow thosea are some scary ratings ninjashogun	[02:01]
ninjashogun	they're just trollish ratings. The positive rating isn't merited either.	[02:01]
ninjashogun	None of those are based on trades or knowing me in real life.	[02:01]
bounce	how does that relate to you hanging out here, where those ratings come from?	[02:01]
ninjashogun	I mean they give the impression of being based on something (transactions with me etc).	[02:02]
Apocalyptic	thestringpuller, you don't know the fellow ?	[02:02]
kakobrekla	verbal transactions count.	[02:02]
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ninjashogun	kakobrekla, yes of course they do.	[02:02]
kakobrekla	verbal is actually the wrong word here. hehe	[02:03]
ninjashogun	?	[02:03]
ninjashogun	What did you mean then?	[02:03]
ben_vulpes	text action	[02:03]
bounce	hot text on text action	[02:03]
thestringpuller	Apocalyptic: i only rate people when I do extensive interactions with them. or interactions highly dependent on trust.	[02:04]
thestringpuller	thus in that context I not know ninjashogun.	[02:04]
ninjashogun	Let's talk about something interesting. Did you guys see htat Reddit's investors are giving 10% of their series B round to the reddit community? (http://blog.samaltman.com/reddit)	[02:04]
Apocalyptic	i didn't ask about rating, but he made some voice here a while ago	[02:04]
Apocalyptic	*noise	[02:05]
thestringpuller	!s reddit stock crypto	[02:05]
assbot	0 results for 'reddit stock crypto' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=reddit+stock+crypto	[02:05]
thestringpuller	!s reddit stock	[02:05]
assbot	3 results for 'reddit stock' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=reddit+stock	[02:05]
ben_vulpes	damn ninjashogun you can't even be arsed to use the convenient logsearch?	[02:05]
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mircea_popescu	Adlai it's pretty well established that bitfinex are derpy already.	[02:06]
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thestringpuller	i dunno where we've discussed it to be honest. so the log search is not helping me. i'm also an idiot with archival retrieval sooo	[02:06]
Adlai	beautifully understated	[02:06]
kakobrekla	(so is kraken btw)	[02:06]
kakobrekla	just retarded in a different way.	[02:06]
Adlai	which way?	[02:07]
kakobrekla	!s kraken	[02:07]
assbot	253 results for 'kraken' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kraken	[02:07]
kakobrekla	blah gribble	[02:07]
ninjashogun	No, those log searches don't show anything. But at least I personally think it's big news. This is from sept 30th.	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	!down ninjashogun	[02:07]
*	assbot removes voice from ninjashogun	[02:07]
kakobrekla	!s kraken -gribble	[02:08]
assbot	134 results for 'kraken -gribble' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kraken+-gribble	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	see ? wasn't even that far off!	[02:08]
Adlai	LOL i didn't realize one could "welsh" on a bet, that's a new slur to me	[02:09]
mircea_popescu	it's not a slur, it's true :D	[02:10]
kakobrekla	and to add more to the logs, today from Darko (kraken) : The documentation on the partial payment feature is very poor. Even the Stellar Development Foundation only learned of the issue this past week. Even though there was an update to the Stellar code base to remove the feature, we are nonetheless taking the Stellar gateway offline until we can fully evaluate everything ourselves. Overly cautious perhaps, but we'd rather be overly	[02:10]
kakobrekla	cautious in a situation like this.	[02:10]
kakobrekla	lulz	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla they all got raped because they thought themselves smarter than the b-a crowd.	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	gotta implement ripple and css yo!	[02:10]
kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2014#602554	[02:10]
assbot	Logged on 03-04-2014 19:15:23; kakobrekla: kraken will trade you dead grandmother if the logo is nice.	[02:10]
thestringpuller	interesting idea: way to tie entities to Web of Trust identities?	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	quite	[02:11]
thestringpuller	like a directory of sort.	[02:11]
kakobrekla	well since you worked with their api Adlai , you prolly noticed their rate limits	[02:13]
kakobrekla	prolly the most retarded setup on this planet.	[02:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.00073892 = 28.3006 BTC [-] {2}	[02:13]
Adlai	that doesn't make them derpy, just drastically lacking in infrastructure... which is a little derpy for an exchange	[02:13]
kakobrekla	that is just one of the 1000 and 1 fails of kraken	[02:14]
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Apocalyptic	Adlai, you're familiar with the "same deposit address to multiple customers" issue ?	[02:15]
kakobrekla	as for the infrastructure - i am quite confident they have less than half of what they had a year ago	[02:15]
Adlai	Apocalyptic: link?	[02:16]
Apocalyptic	it's on btctalk, I'm confident you can find it yourself	[02:17]
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Adlai	a link is a link even when it's not a url :)	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	Adlai it's how they squandered their original trust capital	[02:18]
*	Adlai doesn't understand why they haven't turned on the margin engine	[02:18]
Adlai	it seems as though all the software is in place, and this is obviously a feature that the average trader loves to use	[02:18]
Adlai	(otherwise why would people still be on bitfinex)	[02:19]
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kakobrekla	afaik bfx is loose on dox if you dont withdraw fiat	[02:21]
Adlai	another beautiful understatement	[02:22]
kakobrekla	(and possibly dposit)	[02:22]
Adlai	they don't know anything about me other than an email address	[02:22]
kakobrekla	i dont know the details - not registered.	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	http://mpex.ws/?mpsic=S.QNTR <<< so this is a little bit of news	[02:27]
assbot	S.QNTR last @0.00000000	[02:27]
mircea_popescu	congrats cazalla & BingoBoingo	[02:27]
cazalla	and this is what i link to from qntra?	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	also pete_dushenski, mike_c, RagnarDanneskjol, other interested parties ^	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	cazalla yeah put in a footer somewhere.	[02:28]
cazalla	ok	[02:28]
Adlai	qntra.net seems to have some ssl issue?	[02:29]
kakobrekla	ssl has issue with qntra prolly	[02:29]
Adlai	well, the certificate is issued for a different domain name	[02:30]
cazalla	that's interesting	[02:30]
kakobrekla	also is there a point in ssl if its optional	[02:31]
Apocalyptic	qntra.net seems to have some ssl issue? // just got the error	[02:31]
cazalla	i didn't reg an ssl cert, the domain was dropped by qntra.com at some point i believe	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	cazalla srsly, just ditch https altogether	[02:32]
Apocalyptic	the ssl cert provided seems to be for *.battlequest.com	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't actually add any security, costs money and adds complexity.	[02:32]
cazalla	i never added it so how do i remove it	[02:32]
Apocalyptic	mircea, it at least adds security in the sense of preventing sniffing by some derps	[02:33]
kakobrekla	green icon is nice though.	[02:33]
cazalla	battlequest looks good	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic sniffing what ?	[02:33]
Apocalyptic	the transmitted data	[02:34]
mircea_popescu	but it's a news website.	[02:35]
Apocalyptic	I know, I thought your statement was general and not related to qntra	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	cazalla you don't really need to do anything.	[02:36]
cazalla	i assume it'll go away once cert expires	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	nah	[02:36]
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mircea_popescu	it'll just bitch about expired cert then	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	but w/e, people gotta learn to get off https	[02:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14189 @ 0.0007364 = 10.4488 BTC [-]	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	i suppose the user-friendliest solution would be to get a cheapo cert and then redirect it via mod_rewrite	[02:37]
kakobrekla	they wont learn	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	hey, its a parade over here!	[02:39]
kakobrekla	hehe	[02:39]
kakobrekla	sry sry	[02:39]
*	kakobrekla winds off	[02:39]
dub	BREAKING: MPEx IPOs bitcoin drama. You'll Never Believe Wat Happens Next	[02:41]
BingoBoingo	!b 1	[02:41]
assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1FZ0HPH.txt )	[02:41]
BingoBoingo	!t m s.qntr	[02:43]
assbot	Um, shouldn't you be with your own tribe or somethin'?	[02:43]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	who/what had that tagline ? "you won't believe what happens next"	[02:45]
cazalla	that youtube video from other week	[02:46]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla no i meant literally. peruvian day parade.	[02:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00073987 = 9.1744 BTC [+]	[02:47]
BingoBoingo	%v	[02:53]
atcbot	[X-BT VWAP] Bid: 185 Ask: 225 Last Price: 225 30d-Vol: 170k 30d-High: 266 30d-Low: 180 30d-VWAP: 198	[02:53]
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kakobrekla	so, rain on?	[02:54]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	no nudity	[02:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: in cryptography, every constant's a salt. you're well advised to change ALL constants << and turn wrong knob, die by pollard rho or similar.	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's for small primes neh ?	[02:56]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not hard to see why schneier and his owner would tell us 'don't homebrew crypto', but the propaganda has a basis in honest fact - average 'k00l d00dz' programmer will hang himself with own gun	[02:56]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes. for the exponent example specifically, see coppersmith's attack.	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	ideally, by the time he's old enough to have a gun he has enough experience with peashooters to know better.	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	provided he's given peashooters as a kid and encouraged to shoot himself till he gets tired of it.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: interestingly, cryptography does not work this way. you can walk around for years as a zombie, while not knowing that you're really blown your brains out years ago and ought to rest in the grave.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	also true	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	still, you gotta gimme something. don't use standard stuff, don't homebrew, what then ? wait for god ?	[02:58]
asciilifeform	nah	[02:58]
asciilifeform	rewire, homebrew. but do occasionally study how the damn thing works.	[02:59]
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Adlai	i've been seeing "you won't believe what happens next" since the first banner ads	[03:00]
*	asciilifeform finds it quite impossible to imagine anything other than a mutilated corpse following 'won't believe what happens next' phrase.	[03:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00073936 = 14.6763 BTC [-]	[03:01]
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BingoBoingo	* asciilifeform finds it quite impossible to imagine anything other than a mutilated corpse following 'won't believe what happens next' phrase. << Woodchipper fan fiction	[03:05]
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BingoBoingo	https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PoLyoe8UcI8/VDi5b_2GxdI/AAAAAAAAJTo/vsVXCe4rfms/s1600/BufFxv8IMAAcGw8.jpg	[03:10]
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thestringpuller	%t	[03:20]
atcbot	[X-BT] Bid: 185 Ask: 225 Last Price: 225 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A	[03:20]
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penguirker	New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/introducing-sqntr/	[03:23]
dub	stay classy mp	[03:24]
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*	asciilifeform is able to identify the smaller devices in the upper right hand corner of photo, but not the large rectangular apparatus.	[03:26]
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RagnarDanneskjol	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2014#869192 << cazalla - one day hanging by a thread, next day listing on biggest exchange in teh universe http://www.troll.me/images/y-u-no/y-u-no-wait.jpg	[03:29]
assbot	Logged on 12-10-2014 05:02:00; cazalla: not at this time, it's only 2 weeks old, maybe it dies tmw who knows	[03:29]
cazalla	RagnarDanneskjol, lol, what did you expect me to say	[03:30]
RagnarDanneskjol	nothin, just sayin	[03:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00073936 = 11.497 BTC [-]	[03:31]
cazalla	so regards to finding additional author, on the about page i added must be in wot + 6 months #b-a logs, i'm happy to loosen requirements if article quality is up to par, what do people think?	[03:31]
cazalla	additional authors*	[03:32]
asciilifeform	cazalla: how does this work again? people submit items written for the occasion? or are they licensed from other sites ?	[03:32]
BingoBoingo	Well, writing sample as audition seems like a solid process	[03:32]
asciilifeform	or is there a set of staff authors ... ?	[03:32]
cazalla	ideally they find some news, verify rumour, something of interest to readers that is original	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Everything for the occasion. Maybe eventually a staff? Qntra only pays in equity though.	[03:33]
cazalla	licensing content wouldn't work	[03:33]
asciilifeform	then find << which they ? that was the q	[03:34]
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cazalla	they as in anyone that wants to contribute to the site and earn equity	[03:34]
asciilifeform	aha	[03:34]
*	asciilifeform was confused by talk of 'finding authors' earlier.	[03:34]
cazalla	i didn't really make it clear	[03:35]
BingoBoingo	Food for thought. Bone wax is an actual product applied to living bone.	[03:35]
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mats_cd03	http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-aig-bailout-idUSKCN0HZ1WK20141010	[03:39]
assbot	Ex-Fed Chair Bernanke: wanted to stop AIG default, not punish firm\| Reuters	[03:39]
mod6	ole Edward Quince	[03:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: re: 'youth' article: when americans repeat the maxim 'don't waste your youth', generally they aren't talking about purely chronological age. what they really mean is 'youth' in the sense of the larval cycle where you are supported by external wires (parents, student debt, etc.)	[03:44]
asciilifeform	for some of the people in question, this has been artificially extended into 20s, 30s, and on.	[03:45]
mats_cd03	i am realizing the West Key system is not going to be helpful in doing this legal research	[03:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48211 @ 0.00073846 = 35.6019 BTC [-] {2}	[03:46]
mats_cd03	guess ill go to the harvard law school library and bug some librarians for tips	[03:46]
RagnarDanneskjol	harvard law library is open to public?	[03:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30031 @ 0.00073575 = 22.0953 BTC [-]	[03:47]
RagnarDanneskjol	oh http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/services/admission/access-guests.html	[03:48]
assbot	Access for Guests	[03:48]
asciilifeform	it is possible to pay one's way into most academic libraries.	[03:48]
asciilifeform	but price varies.	[03:48]
*	asciilifeform long-time practitioner of this dark art	[03:49]
BingoBoingo	chetty: Have you found anything concrete on sterilizing cash yet?	[03:50]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: in the literal sense?	[03:51]
mats_cd03	i know a guy that knows a guy.	[03:51]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Yeah. Beause obola	[03:51]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: if so, the simplest device is... a bank. the infected cash is brought to the bank, and given to the hapless devil inside. afterwards, one walks six metres to the cash machine and withdraws clean cash (generally, where i live, only newly-printed money is ever placed into the cassette, to avoid jamming rollers.)	[03:52]
RagnarDanneskjol	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853230	[03:52]
assbot	Logged on 01-10-2014 10:07:21; RagnarDanneskjol: http://www.recentscientific.com/sites/default/files/download_110.pdf	[03:52]
Adlai	technically (the best kind of) speaking, isn't material contaminated with ebolavirus still considered "sterile"?	[03:52]
Adlai	"free from bacteria or other living microorganisms; totally clean"	[03:53]
BingoBoingo	Adlai: Depending on where one places their cut off for "life" it could be. I'm of the opinion that fire meets the minimum qualifications for living though.	[03:54]
BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo: if so, the simplest device is... a bank. the infected cash is brought to the bank, and given to the hapless devil inside. afterwards, one walks six metres to the cash machine and withdraws clean cash (generally, where i live, only newly-printed money is ever placed into the cassette, to avoid jamming rollers.) << Out I get some used, but pressed bills out of the cash machine	[03:54]
Adlai	another possibility is to wash your hands before you eat, and use straws instead of benjies	[03:56]
asciilifeform	use straws instead of benjies << heresy	[03:57]
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RagnarDanneskjol	lel	[03:57]
Adlai	ok, this is the first time i've watched a video trailer for a book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruba41fF1Ag	[03:57]
assbot	GOD IS A GAMER by Ravi Subramanian - The official book video - YouTube	[03:57]
Adlai	makes me just want to wait until the movie comes out	[03:58]
asciilifeform	there was, if i recall, a trailer for neal stephenson's 'anathem'	[03:58]
BingoBoingo	Well, ethylene oxide seems like a promising canidate agent	[03:58]
cazalla	Adlai, it's pretty common	[03:59]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: seems as if you're still thinking of the whole thing as a natural disaster - rather than open biological warfare by usg against own subjects	[03:59]
BingoBoingo	Could be both	[04:00]
*	asciilifeform admits he expected an honest, traditional firing squad, like a chump.	[04:01]
asciilifeform	at any rate, the difference between disaster and war is that dodges don't work against war - it responds in kind.	[04:02]
BingoBoingo	http://www.synergyhealthplc.com/sites/default/files/ethylene_oxide_bench-top_processors_information_sheet.pdf	[04:02]
asciilifeform	earthquakes don't chase you if you run.	[04:02]
Adlai	firing squads take a long time and use too much manpower (Eichmann et al, 1942)	[04:02]
BingoBoingo	!b 5	[04:03]
assbot	Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0T5M1HC.txt )	[04:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13265 @ 0.00073509 = 9.751 BTC [-]	[04:05]
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asciilifeform	'Perhaps even more disturbing, evidence suggests that policymakers—from cadets at West Point to senators on the Intelligence Committee to Supreme Court Justices—are referencing fake spies to formulate and implement real intelligence policies...'	[04:11]
asciilifeform	( http://cryptome.org/2014/10/spytainment.pdf << loltron )	[04:11]
*	Adlai is a bit puzzled by the incentives arising from s.qntr's share model... authors are incentivized to write the longest possible article which will pass review, while the editor is incentivized to pick the shortest available article on a specific subject	[04:12]
Adlai	that doesn't necessarily produce the "best" content, although trying to incentivize "better" content through share distribution might be misguided	[04:13]
cazalla	Adlai, providing contributors adhere to quality guidelines, i don't see long articles to be a problem for the website	[04:20]
decimation	asciilifeform: that 'spytainment' paper is hilarious. I especially like the part about re-classification of previously publically released material.	[04:20]
cazalla	if anything it will act as motivation for them to contribute a lot of quality content and possibly earn more than they would have by publishing it elsewhere	[04:21]
Adlai	cazalla: problem != (dis)incentive	[04:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22035 @ 0.00073739 = 16.2484 BTC [+]	[04:21]
decimation	One cannot imagine a better situation for allowing bureaucrats unlimited freedom of action than to create a massive propaganda apparatus (hollywood) which everyone (including dear leaders) believe to be the truth.	[04:21]
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cazalla	and why would i be incentivised to write short articles? i can earn from the same pool of shares other authors do	[04:21]
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Adlai	decimation: after one of the snowden leaks, there were some emails sent around govt networks asking people not to open the leaked documents on workstations with lower clearance than the leaks	[04:22]
asciilifeform	quite a bit of very interesting (though, naturally, unproven) turds on cryptome today	[04:23]
asciilifeform	pertaining to the crown jewels.	[04:23]
Adlai	i'm imagining a situation where authors are competing, i realize that qntra has a smaller author pool atm	[04:23]
asciilifeform	(eci)	[04:23]
penguirker	New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/write-for-qntra-earn-equity-in-qntra/	[04:23]
decimation	one wonders if usg actually keeps anything secret or just fills out paperwork to that effect	[04:24]
Adlai	how does qntra plan to monetize?	[04:28]
BingoBoingo	Eventually	[04:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45650 @ 0.0007343 = 33.5208 BTC [-] {3}	[04:30]
xanthyos	much of the btc criticism i read online hearkens back to mtgox, like mtgox is this powerful buzzword that trumps all arguments, like rudy giuliani did with "9/11"	[04:30]
mircea_popescu	so regards to finding additional author, on the about page i added must be in wot + 6 months #b-a logs, i'm happy to loosen requirements if article quality is up to par, what do people think? << yah if they're in the wot at all and they submit something that's decent should be ok	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	or is there a set of staff authors ... ? << set as in brothel. anyone can submit for an audition	[04:32]
asciilifeform	http://cryptome.org/2014/10/nsa-eci-the-intercept-14-1010.pdf << now we know what drawer in the indiana jones vault contains rsa pill.	[04:32]
asciilifeform	(or, is to contain.)	[04:32]
Adlai	BingoBoingo: "how" is the key word :)	[04:32]
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mircea_popescu	larval cycle where you are supported by external wires (parents, student debt, etc.) << clearly spending your own money as you see fit should be a better position than begging mom/govt. so if that's what it is then... yeah, waste it. it sucks.	[04:33]
BingoBoingo	Well, there's a timeline to answer how beyond what is contained in the listing document. Any or all of the methods proposed there may be considered.	[04:33]
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*	Adlai looks at the listing again	[04:33]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'better to be rich and healthy than poor and disease-ridden', yes.	[04:34]
mircea_popescu	* Adlai is a bit puzzled by the incentives arising from s.qntr's share model... authors are incentivized to write the longest possible article which will pass review, while the editor is incentivized to pick the shortest available article on a specific subject << works i guess.	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i've yet to meet adults that made less than teenager allowance.	[04:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: use formula from earlier thread, 'wage per minute of actual work minus rent'	[04:37]
asciilifeform	for teenager, rent can usually be set to null	[04:37]
asciilifeform	rephrase, if you like, as 'unit of discretionary income per unit of lost free time.'	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	this is plainly untrue. if teenager rent is null then pretty much any woman's rent is also null.	[04:38]
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mircea_popescu	if you're going to put up with parenting level bullshit you might as well answer one of those "will rent for cocksucking" craigslist ads.	[04:38]
asciilifeform	not every parent is a visisector	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	eh get out.	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	any helicopter mom can run the mouth for longer than anyone can maintain an erection.	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	cocksucking's by far the better deal.	[04:39]
BingoBoingo	!b 10	[04:39]
assbot	Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3HV14G2.txt )	[04:39]
Adlai	lolololol	[04:40]
Adlai	there's a doonesbury somewhere out there where mike's dad gives him a bill for all his parenting, including his share of rent	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	i think a vanishingly small minority of parents actually adds value through parenting.	[04:41]
Adlai	text is too small to find it quickly through google images -> /me gives up	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	the vastmajority should be charged for it.	[04:41]
decimation	I have a friend who made his teenagres pay the utility bills	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	much like the vast majority of people writing should be charged	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	per word.	[04:41]
kakobrekla	per letter offers better provisioning	[04:42]
Adlai	obligatory rothbard quote, "the purely free society will have a flourishing free market in children"	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	no, let them try to use all nine letter words :D	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	Adlai and be better off for it, too.	[04:43]
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BingoBoingo	!up devthedev	[04:43]
*	assbot gives voice to devthedev	[04:43]
asciilifeform	i wish we could ask herr rothbard about the market value of... ebola.	[04:43]
devthedev	Thanks BingoBoingo	[04:43]
asciilifeform	per gram.	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, this isn't some sort of crazy altenrate world. one of the chief pillars of english prosperity, not just financial but espexcially intellectual, was the flourishing free market in children they had.	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	pretty much every snotty brat got shipped off to slave labour at the age of about 7.	[04:43]
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decimation	in the ancient world it is my understanding that selling children into slavery was in some cases the 'social safety net'	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	the process built like 99% of any english speaker worth a name in all history.	[04:44]
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mircea_popescu	decimation in the modern world too	[04:44]
decimation	mircea_popescu: not to mention they sent their criminals and 'surplus young men' into slavery in the colonies	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	you can still buy an indian girlie today.	[04:45]
Adlai	at what point does a child sold into slavery become free?	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	Adlai in england you mean ? usually when he's old enough and skilled enough to practice a trade	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	except if a woman. women rarely emancipated.	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	dub what part of tuna do you find unclassy ?	[04:46]
Adlai	whenever i think about such ideas, my disgust at the theoretical treatment of people turns into disgust at the actual way we treat animals today	[04:46]
Adlai	and then i stop thinking about it because bacon	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	your disgust is misplaced.	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	the only disgusting thing is that a minority of kids today are mistreated by not being so treated.	[04:46]
Adlai	you think we treat animals (including people) well?	[04:46]
asciilifeform	Adlai: the 'animal rights' folks have it backwards. i've met people who envy the pigs.	[04:46]
decimation	Adlai: do you think it is more 'humane' to pay to keep the humans in shitholes with nothing to do?	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	Adlai i think english speakers mistreat their children horribly.	[04:47]
kakobrekla	told you he will get along just fine.	[04:47]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:47]
Adlai	i'm not sure what's humane or better, but i'm open to the possibility of there being better treatments than what we do now	[04:47]
Adlai	and yes, it's fair to say that i was "mistreated" by never having to work for money until i stopped accepting my parents' charity	[04:48]
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Adlai	on one hand i'm pretty pleased about that, it enabled me to have tons of free time growing up, and i think i used it reasonably well	[04:49]
Adlai	on the other hand, that child grew into a "psychologically unemployable" adult	[04:49]
kakobrekla	lol	[04:50]
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Adlai	kakobrekla: what's wrong with a little dissent :P	[04:50]
decimation	I suspect that few of the young apprentices that mircea_popescu mentioned ended up dispising the masters who showed them how dumb they were	[04:50]
asciilifeform	psychologically unemployable << waitwat, what do you eat...?	[04:50]
Adlai	debt!	[04:50]
asciilifeform	!b 2	[04:51]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3XB0P50.txt )	[04:51]
Adlai	:D	[04:51]
asciilifeform	keep the humans in shitholes with nothing to do << where is this done, outside of u.s. prisons ?	[04:55]
asciilifeform	(and schools, but i repeat myself)	[04:55]
decimation	and 'neighborhoods' in the city	[04:55]
asciilifeform	decimation: gedankenexperiment. what stops these folks from, e.g., opening a textbook & studying physics, math, greek, whatever ?	[04:56]
asciilifeform	everyone 'has something to do'	[04:56]
asciilifeform	not everyone has a chap with a stick standing behind, ready to whack	[04:56]
asciilifeform	but not everyone needs.	[04:56]
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Adlai	mircea_popescu: maybe make http://mpex.bz/?mpsic=S.QNTR link to http://qntra.net instead of https?	[04:57]
assbot	S.QNTR last @0.00000000	[04:57]
assbot	Qntra.net - The #1 Bitcoin Site For News, Views & Commentary	[04:57]
decimation	asciilifeform: well, the aforementioned English devised a system where every such chap has a stick-wielder nearby	[04:57]
asciilifeform	that is one way to ensure that everyone who needs the stick, gets the stick, yes.	[04:58]
decimation	in the us, wielding the stick is generally banned, as is wielding wet noodles or signs that say 'stick'	[04:58]
asciilifeform	there is still a stick.	[04:58]
asciilifeform	and it will swing, and take your head clean off, if it must	[04:59]
devthedev	What do you think would be the best way to handle MPEx shares for Qntra?	[04:59]
asciilifeform	when you do certain things	[04:59]
cazalla	give him the stick, DON'T give him the stick	[04:59]
decimation	you mean the cruel discipline of nature?	[04:59]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker	[05:00]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 373.65, Best ask: 374.9, Bid-ask spread: 1.25000, Last trade: 373.65, 24 hour volume: 14684.35561064, 24 hour low: 354.71, 24 hour high: 383.6, 24 hour vwap: 367.905500141	[05:00]
Adlai	BingoBoingo: where in the listing document is there any mention of anything which generates revenue?	[05:00]
asciilifeform	decimation: nah. homeland severity, war on drugz, etc	[05:00]
BingoBoingo	Adlai: Section 1, definitions	[05:01]
*	Adlai atard	[05:01]
Adlai	beautifully vague, but i guess that's appropriate at such an early stage	[05:02]
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decimation	asciilifeform: yes, it is sad that in the us, the gov't has the right to arbitrary invade your person, yet generally forbids those who are put in authority over children the same power	[05:03]
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decimation	and by 'invade your person' I mean 'subject to arbitrary measures of physical control'	[05:04]
BingoBoingo	http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/wsdatap/v6r0m0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.dp.xm.doc%2Fjson_jsonx.html << IBM being IBM	[05:04]
assbot	WebSphere DataPower, Version 6.0.0, Information Center	[05:04]
BingoBoingo	JSON as XML	[05:05]
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Adlai	yes that was linked in #lisp a while back	[05:05]
BingoBoingo	Ah, I only have so many channels open at a time.	[05:07]
asciilifeform	http://www.thesunonline.ca/News/Story.aspx?ID=2167239	[05:07]
assbot	500 Internal Server Error	[05:07]
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*	Adlai is doing well, down to ~20 from >50	[05:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9609 @ 0.00074003 = 7.1109 BTC [+] {2}	[05:09]
decimation	http://www.corpun.com/counuss.htm	[05:11]
assbot	CORPORAL PUNISHMENT (PADDLING) IN AMERICAN SCHOOLS	[05:11]
RagnarDanneskjol	Adlai at what point does a child sold into slavery become free? psychologically unemployable, et.. < http://trilema.com/2014/money-fucking-and-lying/#footnote_1_57150	[05:11]
assbot	Money, fucking and lying pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[05:11]
mircea_popescu	I suspect that few of the young apprentices that mircea_popescu mentioned ended up dispising the masters who showed them how dumb they were << actually, if the periodic apprentice riots are anything to go by, they probably resented their masters to their grave.	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	so what of it, kids loving their father is the seal of fathering failure.	[05:12]
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decimation	heh good point - except for the few who became masters themselves	[05:13]
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mircea_popescu	What do you think would be the best way to handle MPEx shares for Qntra? << whatr do you ean handle ?	[05:13]
BingoBoingo	!up devthedev	[05:13]
*	assbot gives voice to devthedev	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	"what do you mean handle" i meant	[05:14]
mircea_popescu	and by 'invade your person' I mean 'subject to arbitrary measures of physical control << they still doing the "freeze" kindergarten game in airports ?	[05:14]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: isn't much of what you say about anglophonia relevant for many other places too?	[05:15]
devthedev	I'm trying to gain knowledge of which brokerage would be best.	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	not that many. nordic countries mostly.	[05:15]
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mircea_popescu	devthedev prolly jurov's coinbr	[05:15]
decimation	mircea_popescu: yes, except they arbitrarily add on various 'strip' features, like your shoes, bags, etc	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	we kinda had that,	[05:16]
mircea_popescu	but you had to be careful or else the adults might catch on.	[05:16]
decimation	the latest thing is that if you pay the tsa $70 you can get your name on a list, so that you go through security 'the way it was before 2001'	[05:16]
decimation	http://www.tsa.gov/tsa-precheck/application-program	[05:17]
RagnarDanneskjol	!up RagnarsBitch	[05:17]
*	assbot gives voice to RagnarsBitch	[05:17]
*	Adlai while reading RagnarDanneskjol's link, wonders whether mircea_popescu has seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wg6rL0n1yk	[05:17]
assbot	George Carlin - Children Are Our Future - YouTube	[05:17]
decimation	"I'm an official friend of usg, here's my pass from Stalin"	[05:17]
asciilifeform	decimation: nah, that'd be whatever document officials carry	[05:18]
mircea_popescu	!s carlin from:mircea_popescu	[05:18]
asciilifeform	any chumper can fork over the hundy and get the 'precleared' thing.	[05:18]
assbot	7 results for 'carlin from:mircea_popescu' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=carlin+from%3Amircea_popescu	[05:18]
mircea_popescu	decimation do they refund it if you blow up a plane after all ?	[05:18]
Adlai	the agent refunds it if they want to see you naked when you arrive at the airport	[05:19]
*	asciilifeform has considered applying for the pass to see if he'd get one	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	tbh, if i were sitting on the iron throne in question, i'd have the agents naked	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	actually fuck it. nudist flights. poland style!	[05:20]
asciilifeform	this was actually proposed	[05:20]
asciilifeform	forget by whom	[05:20]
asciilifeform	next step was, i think, 'knockout flights' - with anaesthesia	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	i think it' sstill done in germany/poland	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	was the rage in the 80s	[05:21]
asciilifeform	the answer is, of course, the humble fat bomb.	[05:21]
asciilifeform	(or uterus bomb, or variations thereof.)	[05:21]
asciilifeform	i for one am quite curious what the first successful use of a uterus bomb will do to 'security theatre.'	[05:22]
decimation	mircea_popescu: I believe usg officially values passengers at $170k per head: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/08/asiana-airlines-crash-lawsuit/2500067/	[05:22]
assbot	What are your rights if your plane crashes?	[05:22]
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mircea_popescu	decimation it's about fair tbh.	[05:23]
decimation	whatever happened to those 'red faction' chaps that were using high-end shaped charges in the 80's?	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	if you do actuarial averages, about the best construction you can come up with	[05:23]
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decimation	I think you wrote about the tyranny of infinite liability	[05:24]
decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-09-2014#850262	[05:24]
assbot	Logged on 29-09-2014 20:16:36; mircea_popescu: any state purporting to enforce strict liability is pure stalinism and nothing but.	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	this is mere tort.	[05:25]
decimation	ask any engineer 'how safe' the bridge should be, and he will ask how many people it should kill in a reasonable lifespan	[05:25]
BingoBoingo	decimation: Bridge kills no people in it's lifespan because users are warned of the expiration date upon which it will self bomb	[05:25]
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decimation	the point being everything is a tradeoff, and many errors of government come from trying to assume the value of something to be infinity - or zero.	[05:27]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: win98 crashes, self-bomb goes off in rush hour.	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	win.	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCdYoXQSN5c << check out the 80s lmao.	[05:27]
assbot	George Carlin - New Jersey (Audio Only) - YouTube	[05:27]
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mats_cd03	my brain keeps parsing S.QNTR as squinter	[05:29]
mats_cd03	perhaps my brain is telling me to write for qntra.	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	try it and see	[05:29]
BingoBoingo	mats_cd03: That just might be the case	[05:29]
decimation	I read it as 'squitter'	[05:30]
mats_cd03	the only thing i have in mind is bitbet audit 2	[05:30]
mats_cd03	and i plan to wait until brk-a bet concludes to do that	[05:30]
decimation	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squitter	[05:30]
assbot	Squitter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	six months or so to go ?	[05:30]
decimation	so reading about lowendhost.net in the [b]logs was useful. has anyone used 'vultr.com'?	[05:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00073896 = 36.7263 BTC [-] {2}	[05:36]
thickasthieves	decimation, kako tried it earlier today	[05:37]
decimation	it seemed to be among the best deals in 'kvm' hosting	[05:37]
thickasthieves	btw bingoboingo, the error is gone, and grats to you and cazalla on the IPOhood	[05:38]
BingoBoingo	thickasthieves: Thank you	[05:38]
thickasthieves	no grats for mp	[05:38]
thickasthieves	:)	[05:38]
mircea_popescu	whai not ?	[05:38]
thickasthieves	keeps you grounded of course	[05:39]
BingoBoingo	decimation: I think kakobrekla is giving them a spin. I've read mixed reviews.	[05:39]
thickasthieves	but no, thank you for giving it a go, i always like to see the new b-a bizs	[05:39]
decimation	ah I see his note in the log, thanks for the tip. I wonder what kind of processor they are using	[05:41]
BingoBoingo	decimation: Their copy says something intel and something recent.	[05:42]
*	assbot removes voice from devthedev	[05:43]
penguirker	New blog post: https://www.bcoinnews.com/bitcoin-value/	[05:45]
thickasthieves	omg i'm going to reddit to try to get mpex to support bitcoin, they only take words now!	[05:45]
mike_c	you could buy from starving authors	[05:46]
thickasthieves	what do i look like?!	[05:47]
thickasthieves	:)	[05:47]
thickasthieves	so, wall st gonna bleed out this week?	[05:48]
asciilifeform	thickasthieves: heard EBLA is doing great.	[05:50]
asciilifeform	promising stock.	[05:50]
asciilifeform	(or is it OBLA... ?)	[05:50]
BingoBoingo	It's EBMA and OBLA	[05:50]
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asciilifeform	http://static.infowars.com/obola-posters/obolaposter1.jpg	[05:51]
thickasthieves	that's some high-rez	[05:51]
asciilifeform	meant to be printed, i think.	[05:51]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: (no, it’s not all physiology, there’s a lot to the functioning of the brain that’s purely cultural, and thus ethnic, and thus sure black kids immersed into white culture could in principle get the same IQ measurements as white kids while black kids from Africa or the ghetto never will) << lolno.	[05:52]
asciilifeform	http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/President+obola+obama+and+the+cdc+lied+to+us+about_9c6327_5318978.jpg	[05:52]
asciilifeform	etc	[05:52]
cazalla	good luck ebola!	[05:52]
diametric	asciilifeform: for what its worth, there is actually no direct flights from west africa to here.	[05:55]
diametric	so theres no flights to stop.	[05:55]
asciilifeform	indirect ones.	[05:56]
diametric	but that would be tantamount to stopping all inbound flights.	[05:56]
asciilifeform	homeland severity knows what your claimed origin point is.	[05:56]
diametric	honestly, though, ebola has an R0 of 2, its less serious than measles which thanks to anti-vax nutters is making a huge comeback. If theres anything to honestly be really worried about, its measles.	[05:57]
asciilifeform	(can fake it, sure. in rich country, penalty - deportation; poor countries - bullet)	[05:57]
diametric	i find it kind of interesting though, you were in the camp of ebola isn't a serious problem for a first world country when we talked about it a few months ago.	[05:57]
decimation	diametric: even assuming that ebola doesn't transmit very well, wouldn't it make sense to attempt some level of quarantine?	[05:58]
*	asciilifeform bought the party line from u.s. army textbook on subject earlier	[05:58]
diametric	decimation: of course, but i think thats happening. (re; the idiot that sneezed and said "sorry i came from africa"	[05:58]
decimation	http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/the-coming-plague/	[05:58]
assbot	The Coming Plague \| West Hunter	[05:59]
decimation	http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/disaster-in-the-south-pacific/	[05:59]
assbot	Disaster in the South Pacific \| West Hunter	[05:59]
decimation	"Washington didn’t micro-manage American Samoa, not being all that interested. A policy of benign neglect was interpreted by Poyer as an opportunity to act on his best judgment, in the finest traditions of the US Navy. He imposed quarantine. That was harder that it sounds, because of the frequent family visits between West Samoa and American Samoa – but Poyer also had the support of the local chiefs, who understood how	[06:00]
decimation	serious imported epidemics could be. The people of American Samoa self-blockaded, on top of official quarantine: they sent out canoes to stop any and all visitors. They never had a single case."	[06:00]
asciilifeform	http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/their-lying-eyes	[06:00]
assbot	Their Lying Eyes \| West Hunter	[06:00]
diametric	man its feeling a bit like fox news in here, trying to convince me I already have ebola	[06:00]
asciilifeform	what does fox news prescribe for ebola ?	[06:01]
diametric	jesus	[06:01]
asciilifeform	t-shirt with elephant logo to be buried in ?	[06:01]
diametric	take two every night.	[06:01]
asciilifeform	lol	[06:01]
decimation	diametric: this is one of these 'tough calls' that the man-children who pretend to run the usg need to actually make	[06:02]
BingoBoingo	what does fox news prescribe for ebola ? << The more important question is where are those magic tobacco plants growing those antibodies	[06:02]
decimation	asciilifeform: it seems that guy (Mr. Cochran) has some axes he is grinding	[06:04]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: in exactly the same place as the goats growing recombinant butyrylcholinesterase (antidote+prophylactic against organophosphate poisoning, $30k+ a dose at current production methods)	[06:04]
asciilifeform	that is - just enough for the Folks Who Matter (tm)	[06:04]
diametric	we're still only sitting at one infection contracted in the US, a nurse that didn't follow the proper protocol when dealing with the index patient (who is now dead). I'm not seeing the incoming pandemic yet.	[06:05]
decimation	diametric: if you read my first link above, the guy comes to the same conclusion	[06:06]
decimation	the question is, how many extra us citizen deaths are worth not 'shutting down' travel from africa, whatever that means?	[06:06]
asciilifeform	no big secret that the policy is to wait for the pandemic, yes.	[06:06]
asciilifeform	after pandemic, the flights will shutter. but different ones - flights out of usa.	[06:06]
asciilifeform	because who in their right mind will let these land?	[06:07]
diametric	its deja vu for me, i had this nearly identical conversation with a friend over sars way back when.	[06:07]
diametric	and then again for swine flu	[06:07]
The20YearIRCloud	And we started monitoring almost immediately	[06:07]
asciilifeform	fatality for swine flu was close to nil.	[06:08]
The20YearIRCloud	If my understanding was right, the infection rate from swine flu was higher, but overall mortality was less	[06:08]
decimation	diametric: yeah the difference is we know the fatality rate for ebola is double digits	[06:08]
The20YearIRCloud	A girl in my town came very, very close to death from swine flu, but normal flu kills quite a few each year	[06:08]
dub	we don't know that	[06:08]
diametric	we know the fatality rate for ebola if you're a poor african man is double digits.	[06:08]
decimation	although to be fair, we don't know how people with actual medical care will fair	[06:09]
decimation	diametric: yeah that's a good point	[06:09]
asciilifeform	so far, 50% (sample of... 6 ?)	[06:09]
asciilifeform	the thing is, 'actual medical care' for the afflicted is possible when you have a handful.	[06:09]
diametric	6?	[06:09]
asciilifeform	and doctors are willing to approach them, and resources available	[06:09]
BingoBoingo	If they survive ebola die by the bill	[06:09]
The20YearIRCloud	It's high in the US too, the difference is here it's not as liekly transmissable, nor as lethal, and there's extreme economic incentive to prevent or treat it	[06:09]
asciilifeform	how transmissible - let's ask again next month.	[06:10]
The20YearIRCloud	The flu kills plenty in Africa too, but our death rate from yearly flu is something like 0.02%	[06:10]
diametric	asciilifeform: we know how transmissible, even in a country like africa where large families share rooms, the average person only infects 1.5 other people.	[06:10]
dub	where are teh bitbets? 50K US deaths by chrimbus	[06:10]
decimation	right, so r < 1.0	[06:10]
diametric	I've heard numbers ranging from 0.5 to 2 for r	[06:11]
diametric	which is nothing compared to 18 of measles.	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	so these people here are fucking obsessed with dolce de leche	[06:12]
diametric	pertussis is like 15 or something.	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	i expect they make furniture out of the thing too	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	so i go buy chocolate dipped figs. only to discover, the motherfucking figs	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	ARE STUFFED IN TURN	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	with dolce de leche	[06:12]
asciilifeform	diametric: measles is entirely uninteresting to the vaccinated.	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel which part and wherefore	[06:12]
*	asciilifeform is quite certainly obsessed with dulce de leche...	[06:13]
decimation	diametric: I agree with you that ebola in the us likely has r << 1.0, and will not be a pandemic	[06:13]
diametric	asciilifeform: it shouldn't be, thanks to your local anti-vaxxers who are breeding colonies of non-vaccinated measles carrying people, new mutations are likely.	[06:13]
decimation	but that's cold comfort for the couple of people who will die because "we can't control travel from africa"	[06:13]
diametric	so far nobody has died from uncontrolled travel from africa.	[06:14]
asciilifeform	the nurse still lives?	[06:14]
diametric	yes	[06:14]
decimation	that's true, there's only been one case of transmission in the us, the nurse in texas	[06:14]
diametric	the only person in the US that has died from ebola was the african guy that came here and was already very sick.	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	honestly, though, ebola has an R0 of 2, its less serious than measles << this is relying on a whole string of assumptions.	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	like saying "this hooker's like 50 lbs, she's a lot less dangerous than mike in accounting"	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	sure, but the hooker's got aids and a heroin habit.	[06:15]
diametric	less serious in the chances of you getting ebola.	[06:15]
diametric	than say of an unvaccinated person getting measles.	[06:15]
mircea_popescu	this may be true on an individual level. but large scale biologic phenomena have their own emergent properties.	[06:16]
diametric	asciilifeform: it kind of surprises me. if anything, i feel as though the media, and in part the usg, is making ebola sound way more serious in order to keep people in a state of panic. and you're falling right for it.	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	in short, you have nfi what happens once it reaches the magical 2% i think it was ?	[06:16]
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Adlai	growing up against a backdrop of sars and assorted flu mutations has vaccinated me against pandemophobia	[06:16]
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decimation	diametric: I agree with you that 'anti-vaxxers' are a bigger threat than ebola	[06:16]
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Adlai	ebola seriously could not be lower on my waiting list of fuckstogive	[06:16]
decimation	at least in the us	[06:16]
asciilifeform	ebola is interesting not because 'it's coming' but because usg clearly intends to let it walk at leisure.	[06:17]
diametric	decimation: 2013 was the worst in the last 17 years for measles, entirely due to anti-vaxxers. last thing i want, is measles moving around, and having more chances to mutate.	[06:17]
diametric	asciilifeform: i'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion based on a single nurse that didn't follow the rules getting ebola to the usg has let it walk at leisure.	[06:17]
asciilifeform	spanish nurse also did not follow rules?	[06:18]
diametric	she touched her fucking eyes the last i heard.	[06:18]
asciilifeform	after how many nurses do we conclude that they are all simply tired of living?	[06:18]
diametric	with her gloves.	[06:18]
asciilifeform	or that 'the rules' are not quite, the rules	[06:18]
Adlai	i'm more scared of a friend overestimating his own drunk/high driving abilities and killing me before widespread deployment of self-driving cars, than i am of dying of any pandemic, ever	[06:18]
diametric	asciilifeform: well a lot more than 2 right now.	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	Adlai sure, but again, the mass effects are of concern.	[06:18]
Adlai	yeah they really need to release that sequel already	[06:19]
mircea_popescu	for instance, if a fire breaks out in a crowded place, being trampled is more dangerous than being burned	[06:19]
Adlai	note to self: winds are calmest at the epicenter	[06:19]
asciilifeform	in usa, we know how to get trampled even without fire	[06:20]
diametric	unless you're at a great white concert.	[06:20]
dub	you forget this is libertard holy grail, fully half of all bitcoiners are sitting in the bunker cleaning ar15 right now	[06:20]
asciilifeform	in fact, the yearly holiday where this traditionally takes place is coming soon	[06:20]
diametric	its not black friday until a walmart patron is trampled to death.	[06:20]
asciilifeform	dub: we're cleaning stone knives, most can't afford auto	[06:20]
BingoBoingo	you forget this is libertard holy grail, fully half of all bitcoiners are sitting in the bunker cleaning ar15 right now << AR-15 is rather heavy for a walk to the exit	[06:20]
Adlai	TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicenter#Misuse_of_the_term	[06:20]
assbot	Epicenter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[06:20]
decimation	dub: are you saying that obama is walking ebola to keep the republicans at home for the elections?	[06:20]
mircea_popescu	where are teh bitbets? 50K US deaths by chrimbus << make it.	[06:21]
asciilifeform	badbet?	[06:21]
asciilifeform	like 'reichstag burns' given in faq ?	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	dub moar like on reddit	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dun see it. pandemic is act of god.	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	eminently insurable.	[06:22]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: IQ isn't all physiology, ie, genetics. Your iq is in part dependent on your epileptics. So, yes, "there’s a lot to the functioning of the brain that’s purely cultural, and thus ethnic" but that "black kids immersed into white culture could in principle get the same IQ measurements as white kids" does not follow. Blacks have smaller brains and lower iq because of their genetics - placing them in a	[06:22]
gabriel_laddel	'white' environment does not fix this. see, http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/2008%20Med%20Hypotheses.pdf	[06:22]
asciilifeform	except when not	[06:22]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel epileptics ?!	[06:22]
asciilifeform	!!	[06:22]
asciilifeform	spellchecker blip ?	[06:22]
asciilifeform	probably meant 'epigenetics' ?	[06:22]
decimation	seems like a 'force majeure' clause to me	[06:22]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the brain size is not necessarily a predictor of anything. my amd quad is smaller than an old pentium	[06:22]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: fml, spellchecker. epigenetics.	[06:22]
diametric	the incoming ebola pandemic is brought to you by the evil nazi atheist muslim obama, and his horde of unbelieving non-republican swine that infect our great god fearing nation.	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	the genetics underpinnign cognitive function is debatable and poorly understood.	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	hence "could in principle" is correct.	[06:23]
penguirker	New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitwork-io-allows-users-to-complete-and-set-tasks-for-bitcoin/	[06:24]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't mean much more than, this empty bottle of soda could in principle be gasoline.	[06:24]
Adlai	it's amazing just how unrelated brain volume and intelligence are	[06:24]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[06:24]
decimation	diametric: a nontrival portion of the us population probably believes this	[06:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12484 @ 0.00073937 = 9.2303 BTC [+]	[06:24]
diametric	decimation: i know.	[06:24]
diametric	my aunt is one of them.	[06:24]
asciilifeform	Adlai: now go and see reaction time vs. intelligence (take your pick of any known simple test for either of the two)	[06:24]
diametric	she once told me she literally believes obama is the anti-christ.	[06:25]
asciilifeform	Adlai: disturbingly close. 0.8, if i recall.	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	decimation diametric would one of you consider perhaps changing nick ? you're hitting a total blind spot with me, you're like figs and dates, i keep confusing you!	[06:25]
asciilifeform	diametric: http://pbfcomics.com/209 << relevant	[06:25]
assbot	The Perry Bible Fellowship	[06:25]
Adlai	asciilifeform: interesting. the only correlation i can think of for reaction time would be that of overall size, or rather, the length which nerve signals need to travel	[06:25]
diametric	i'll change my nick for 10 bitcoin.	[06:25]
asciilifeform	lol!	[06:26]
Adlai	spiders move so quickly because their brain is right there	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	i am but a poor evil overlord!	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	Adlai nah. because they're hidraulic	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	they don't use muscles.	[06:26]
asciilifeform	Adlai: if i recall, hypothesis involves impedance matching - same reason folks with damaged myelin sheaths lose theirs.	[06:26]
Adlai	why not both?	[06:27]
mircea_popescu	Adlai because similar sized insects aren't that fast.	[06:27]
mircea_popescu	take a small slug	[06:27]
asciilifeform	Adlai: better impedance matching - smoother function of nervous system, both central and peripheral, all else equal	[06:27]
*	Adlai is not knowledgeable enough about slug anatomy to respond	[06:27]
asciilifeform	i suspect you'll get an even tighter number if you factor out arm length (test for reaction time usually involves light and buttons)	[06:27]
Adlai	what is a "known simple test" for "intelligence", though?	[06:28]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform as far as i recall the better studies were done by the russians, measuring eye movements	[06:29]
asciilifeform	Adlai: pick your favourite.	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	to focus and to adjust.	[06:29]
Adlai	or rather, "which intelligence"?	[06:29]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes, i did read that one.	[06:29]
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Adlai	ooh, that's good	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	eyes are remarkably even across populatiobs	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	even when ethnically disjunct	[06:29]
Adlai	a lot less nerve length, and less variance between individuals	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[06:29]
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mircea_popescu	it's what i mostly use to score individuals in proxmity, too.	[06:30]
Adlai	the really steady metric is distance between pupil centers	[06:30]
Adlai	really useful for computer vision	[06:30]
Adlai	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpupillary_distance#Databases	[06:30]
assbot	Interpupillary distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[06:31]
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gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: "the genetics underpinnign cognitive function is debatable and poorly understood." really now? I looked into this, there is no debate on the matter of race / iq / genetics (there is however, lots of screaming). What genes specifically determine iq is definitely up for debate.	[06:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's what i mostly use to score individuals << whatchado, flip the lights on & off and watch the pets sort out the room ?	[06:31]
decimation	http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0080341	[06:31]
assbot	PLOS ONE: Strong Genetic Influence on a UK Nationwide Test of Educational Achievement at the End of Compulsory Education at Age 16	[06:31]
BingoBoingo	what is a "known simple test" for "intelligence", though? << Measured intoxication	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nah, just watch people respond to stimuli.	[06:31]
Adlai	BingoBoingo: ?	[06:31]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: from linked paper "National IQs have been reported for 192 countries around the world. The results show that the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; for US Blacks about 85, and for sub-Saharan African Blacks about 70. The same rank-order of race differences is found for ‘‘culture-fair’’ tests and reaction-time measures. Reaction-time tasks are so easy that al	[06:32]
gabriel_laddel	l children can do them in less than one second. More intelligent children, measured by conventional IQ tests, perform faster on these tasks. East Asians average faster reaction times than Whites who, in turn, have faster reaction times than Blacks."	[06:32]
BingoBoingo	Adlai: Get someone to hit a controlled amount on a breathalyzer and have them do math	[06:32]
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Adlai	that only tests "intelligence" as it relates to the types of "math" in your test	[06:32]
asciilifeform	how come we never hear anyone arguing that there is no such thing as 'strength'	[06:33]
mircea_popescu	lol	[06:33]
gabriel_laddel	Adlai: can't tell if you're trolling.	[06:33]
*	Adlai isn't	[06:33]
asciilifeform	and that a circus weight-lifter isn't the least bit strong, because perhaps my arse muscle is stronger yet than his biceps	[06:33]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel there are many countless objections to bring. for instance, the country with a guy at 300 and three guys at 50 is better than the country with three guys at 150 ?	[06:34]
Adlai	"intelligence" is a very nebulous concept. you can get precise measures for precise definitions of it, but i'm not too interested in who can do long division faster in their head	[06:34]
mircea_popescu	averaging nonlinear measurements is a fine example of having passed through college unattained.	[06:34]
Adlai	let's test correlation between reaction time and dual N-back	[06:34]
asciilifeform	Adlai: the army where you live, when you come to enlist, measures strength. do they do it by asking you to carry a crippled fellow man from a burning tank? or using an arbitrary quick test?	[06:35]
Adlai	they don't measure strength when you come to enlist :P	[06:35]
Adlai	where do you think I live?	[06:35]
asciilifeform	perhaps i should move there, and enlist	[06:35]
mircea_popescu	what do they measure now ? "sensitivity" ?	[06:35]
asciilifeform	what else don't they measure ?	[06:35]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: well, for what purpose?	[06:35]
Adlai	you should probably not	[06:35]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel i dunno, your research papers.	[06:36]
Adlai	when you enlist, they measure "quality" (literal translation) using secret methods	[06:36]
Adlai	everybody goes through the tests, most people know their results, but the actual method of calculating the results is top sekrit	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	what are you in, like finland ?	[06:36]
BingoBoingo	that only tests "intelligence" as it relates to the types of "math" in your test << Well in the later rounds it test how well a brain functions when dampened	[06:36]
asciilifeform	and none of the methods involve a bar bell, scale, measuring tape ?	[06:36]
Adlai	this "quality group" metric is supposed to indicate intelligence	[06:37]
Adlai	physical strength is only evaluated in entrance exams to various units which require it, and these usually test stamina more than raw strength	[06:37]
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decimation	asciilifeform: actually the australian army studied this: http://publications.amsus.org/doi/full/10.7205/MILMED-D-12-00423	[06:38]
decimation	" Current assessments measuring muscular endurance (push-ups and sit-ups), although providing some relationship to firefighting tasks,22–24 do not measure a soldier's ability to lift and carry equipment with the ecological validity of a task-specific assessment. An appropriate assessment would involve lifting and carrying an item in each hand (replicating the hose carry upstairs)."	[06:38]
asciilifeform	lol!	[06:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.0007398 = 2.0345 BTC [+]	[06:38]
asciilifeform	firefighter carries nothing heavier than a hose?	[06:38]
asciilifeform	say, a man	[06:38]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: the paper isn't arguring "better" simply that iq holds for races across environments.	[06:38]
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mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel that iq AVERAGES	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	iqs are not linear, and im not even sure they're scalars at all.	[06:39]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: yes. thank you.	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	hence averages are of vehehery limited usefulness.	[06:39]
decimation	yeah, dr. obvious probably co-wrote that study	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel in short, im not denying a lot of work has been done. i'm just saying, i'm skeptical.	[06:39]
Adlai	the only army-wide test which supposedly measures strength that i'm aware of involves pushups and situps, and i can count on one hand the number of times i saw it administered without the vast majority of people cheating	[06:40]
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Adlai	cheating = you pair up and count for eachother. the soldier counting is supposed to count out loud, but when there are twenty people counting out loud and one or two officers supervising, you can count by twos, threes, or tens, and they don't notice	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	Adlai apparently testing for intelligence would help this army	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	at least at the officer level.	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	i'd have you court martialed if you counted by three. and i would notice.	[06:41]
Adlai	there's a separate metric for a soldier's applicability to being an officer	[06:41]
decimation	usg tests its officers for intelligence	[06:41]
*	Adlai was top intelligence and zero officer applicability	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	decimation yeah, but they don't really manage to attract that much talent somehow.	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	i dunno what it is, the russians have the secret to this.	[06:42]
Adlai	do intelligent russians have attractive prospects outside of a military career?	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	well there's always a cab in ny...	[06:43]
asciilifeform	they can move to usa and massage machines, yes.	[06:43]
asciilifeform	whether that's 'attactive' - you decide.	[06:43]
Adlai	a large problem for militaries in generalized anglophonia is keeping the military career attractive to local talent	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	well perhaps not running the military like it were an idiot reservation bound for the special olympics might help.	[06:44]
mircea_popescu	if you review the us record, from korea to the latest iraq...	[06:44]
mircea_popescu	i don't think they have YET had any sort of objective.	[06:44]
mircea_popescu	kinda hard to attract smart people that way.	[06:44]
decimation	yeah I agree with mircea_popescu, it's a 'big picture' problem	[06:44]
Adlai	national militaries are still trying to wrap their head around how to fight an enemy that isn't another large military	[06:45]
decimation	modern usg officer is told to pacify locals without using any tools that would actually be effective	[06:45]
mats_cd03	counterinsurgency has been a staple of various militaries for decades.	[06:45]
Adlai	doesn't mean they're any good at it, yet	[06:45]
mircea_popescu	yeah mats_cd03 has it, look how nicely the russians did everywhere since the 90s.	[06:45]
mats_cd03	school of americas, what have you. politicians are now executing military policy, thats all.	[06:45]
decimation	they used to be, what about the pacification of germany and japan?	[06:46]
mats_cd03	they're plenty good at it, just not where you think they'd be good at it.	[06:46]
mircea_popescu	neither of these were hard tasks decimation	[06:46]
mats_cd03	see: columbia.	[06:46]
mircea_popescu	the germans were thrilled to be relieved from the russians.	[06:46]
Adlai	well and also some wars aren't meant to be over in a week, that doesn't pull a heavy budget	[06:46]
mircea_popescu	the japanese had a bunch of orgasms and were in that female wax phase.	[06:46]
Adlai	war is peace and all that	[06:47]
mats_cd03	some people, like me, are of the opinion that enough money wasn't spent to quell the iraqi and afghan insurgencies	[06:47]
mats_cd03	should've been $trillions, instead of $xxx bn.	[06:47]
mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 you probably realise the only correct solution there was to make iraq 51st state	[06:47]
mats_cd03	see: marshall plan.	[06:47]
mircea_popescu	anything short of that was going to fail.	[06:47]
mats_cd03	pretty much.	[06:47]
mircea_popescu	so you know... we're not going to do it. well then... why are you here ?	[06:47]
decimation	mircea_popescu: that's obviously the right answer, but note how absolutely no one with anywhere near actual power has even floated that idea	[06:48]
mircea_popescu	ironically, it'd have fixed the crisis, too.	[06:48]
mats_cd03	misguided politicking, imo	[06:48]
Adlai	this is assuming that it should have been $xxxxxxxxx instead of $0 in the first place	[06:48]
mircea_popescu	decimation in public ? nobody would, either. except for me, i keep talking about all sorts of things that shouldn't be in public, much to everyone's shhock and horror.	[06:48]
Adlai	*awe	[06:48]
decimation	but what about 'freedom of speech' 'marketplace of ideas' and all that other bullshit	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	you familiar with the platonic concept of "the great lie" ?	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	great as in very good, not as in very big	[06:49]
ben_vulpes	i think a vanishingly small minority of parents actually adds value through parenting. << the "how to parent well" resources are well drowned in noise	[06:49]
decimation	like 'the noble lie'?	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	right	[06:49]
ben_vulpes	"beatings, frequently", is probably the best advice i've ever gotten.	[06:50]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes also, kids can't parent. it takes adults.	[06:50]
ben_vulpes	when do i become an adult?	[06:50]
mircea_popescu	generally, after you've been hurt and digested it.	[06:50]
*	ben_vulpes noticed no phase change	[06:50]
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Adlai	ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf02nx_a2RQ	[06:52]
assbot	George Carlin - Old Fuck - YouTube	[06:52]
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Adlai	mircea_popescu: kids can't parent. it takes adults. « tell that to eleven-child families in the west bank where the oldest daughters are effectively mothers to the others	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	those aren't children.	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	there's no age limit, you can be an adult at about 12.	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	most english as a single language kids i meet aren't adults at 30.	[06:54]
The20YearIRCloud	Varies greatly person by person	[06:54]
Adlai	seriously how are we defining "adult" here	[06:55]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: now try and tell this to american, and usually he will nod enthusiastically, and after you say '...30' he will answer: 'naturally! they won't even agree to sign up for mortgage!'	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	lol	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	Adlai "having been hurt and digested it"	[06:55]
Adlai	although i guess internet arguments are more fun when people don't even know how vastly their assumptions and definitions are outta wack	[06:56]
Adlai	interesting definition...	[06:56]
mircea_popescu	well you can readily fix that, read the log.	[06:56]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: what were your categories again? "learning by watching" "learning by reading" ...	[06:56]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes im not sure what's the context ?	[06:56]
ben_vulpes	i'm trying to remember myself	[06:56]
asciilifeform	...'must piss on the electric fence personally'	[06:56]
asciilifeform	(3rd type)	[06:56]
ben_vulpes	some people must learn by watching and we call them X; some people learn by reading and we call them Y...	[06:57]
Adlai	the best kinds of misunderstandings are the ones not yet present in the logs	[06:57]
ben_vulpes	ah yes ty asciilifeform	[06:57]
ben_vulpes	some must learn by pissing on the fence themselves, and we call them...	[06:57]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19cL0RuJx4E	[06:58]
assbot	The Male Disease - George Carlin - YouTube	[06:58]
Adlai	one thing i did like about the army is that the core text on safety and risk assesment is titled "Learning from Others' Mistakes"	[06:58]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: waitwaitwait women aren't full of shit and don't want to be in control all the time?	[06:59]
asciilifeform	that's SOP for any serious safety class	[06:59]
decimation	I find watching such movies enjoyable, there's a whole collection here: http://www.csb.gov/videos/	[06:59]
assbot	CSB Safety Message Highlighting Important Role of Recommendations Program in Agency Mission - Safety Messges - Multimedia \| the U.S. Chemical Safety Board	[06:59]
Adlai	the hilarious thing is how enforcement of a safety regulation is inversely proportional to how likely it is to be necessary for the current situation	[07:03]
Adlai	so you get lots of great rules, but only the most tedious and irrelevant ones are actually enforced	[07:03]
Adlai	causing soldiers who don't understand the background behind any of it to believe all the rules are uniformly irrelevant	[07:04]
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mats_cd03	http://www.necn.com/news/health/Patient-Isolated-for-Ebola-Symptoms-in-Braintree-Mass-278946321.html nice knowing you guys	[07:15]
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assbot	Mass. Patient Isolated, Transported for Possible Ebola Symptoms \| NECN	[07:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00073844 = 29.1684 BTC [-] {2}	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	Adlai i dunno, ask carlin eh	[07:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31372 @ 0.00073988 = 23.2115 BTC [+] {2}	[07:20]
Adlai	y u mek me cry	[07:21]
mircea_popescu	and what's an example of a great rule ?	[07:21]
Adlai	wearing fireproof gloves when handling AFV engine innards	[07:22]
Adlai	but you're also supposed to wear them for pretty much everything else you do, and you only get called out on not wearing them when higher-ups can actually see your hands, ie, not when it's actually important to wear them	[07:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00074009 = 8.548 BTC [+]	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	i doubt that's such a great rule.	[07:29]
mircea_popescu	why would there be fire coming out of the engine ?	[07:29]
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Adlai	there shouldn't be, but it can get hot enough to burn your hands, and stays that hot for longer than the average soldier would expect	[07:33]
mircea_popescu	isn't it actually bad for the parts to work on them while too hot to touch ?	[07:33]
mircea_popescu	as in, tigthen a screw, once it cools it's screwed ?	[07:33]
Adlai	i've never seen anybody do that level of work on a hot engine, usually it's just things like oil checking	[07:34]
mircea_popescu	that's visual inspection ne ?	[07:34]
Adlai	there's even one oil check that's supposed to be done while the engine is running although nobody ever did that	[07:34]
mircea_popescu	they don't still use the retractable thinger do they ?	[07:35]
Adlai	yes, m113 engine has those	[07:35]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[07:35]
mircea_popescu	better safety rule... put some damned electronics on the engine block	[07:35]
Adlai	you pull it out, wipe it clean, put it back in, pull it out again, find a light source, see that the oil smeared all over while you were carrying it, wipe it off, etc	[07:35]
Adlai	some of these fuckers are over 50 years old	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	anyway, people doing fine movements generally don't want to wear gloves because bulky and unwieldy	[07:37]
ben_vulpes	well there's always a cab in ny...	[07:38]
ben_vulpes	they can move to usa and massage machines, yes. << bashed	[07:38]
Adlai	of course, people hate wearing these gloves	[07:38]
Adlai	a better safety rule would only require them during the actually dangerous operations	[07:38]
Adlai	but it would probably be ignored since "ALWAYS WEAR THEM" is much easier to enforce for stupid supervisors	[07:39]
mircea_popescu	see, when i think great safety rule i think things like "don't place your heaviest pans highest in your kitchen"	[07:39]
mircea_popescu	costs you just as much to put them there as anywhere else	[07:39]
mircea_popescu	but you WILL get a bump or two if you break it	[07:39]
Adlai	don't ask me about kitchen safety, i nearly burned my house down yesterday	[07:40]
ben_vulpes	not that you get the energy back from putting them up high...	[07:40]
Adlai	at least i had the good sense not to throw water on the burning oil O_o	[07:40]
mircea_popescu	or rub it all over your butt	[07:40]
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mircea_popescu	incidentally, this guy married the hottest chick i ever saw. like 19 too, some hick chick.	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	she spent the honeymoon in the hospital because she rendered some fat, and then poured in a large, thick glass container	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	which cracked and spilled all over her	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	doctor spent like three hours extracting hot oil and glass shards from her crack and legs	[07:43]
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Adlai	how do you even find all the shards in a case like that	[07:44]
ben_vulpes	ain't no training going to fix that kind of stupid	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	they have a special thingee	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	refraction something or the other	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes she was the fucking stereotipical dumb hottie.	[07:44]
ben_vulpes	refract through thigh flesh?	[07:44]
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ben_vulpes	color me unconvinced.	[07:44]
Adlai	well you could train people to just not cook at home, either eat out or order takeaway	[07:44]
Adlai	we can draw the line at microwaving leftovers	[07:44]
ben_vulpes	no no you train them to cook for you.	[07:45]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes if you put a high powered flashlight against your palm you'll see some light go through a mm or two	[07:45]
Adlai	sounds like that's what she was trying to do	[07:45]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: ever read ringworld?	[07:45]
mircea_popescu	dun think so	[07:45]
ben_vulpes	one of the more entertaining devices is the human "birth lotto"	[07:45]
ben_vulpes	this leads to a breeding of the populace for luck	[07:45]
ben_vulpes	book features an extraordinarily clumsy girl who is also extremely lucky.	[07:45]
ben_vulpes	hijinks ensue.	[07:46]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: three hours extracting hot oil and glass shards from her crack and legs << try this on for size: http://www.bards.ru/archives/part.php?id=15568	[07:46]
assbot	- " , -..."	[07:46]
mircea_popescu	nod a bad premise	[07:46]
mircea_popescu	lol assbot has it eh	[07:46]
ben_vulpes	niven yo	[07:46]
ben_vulpes	known for the "not a bad premise" book	[07:46]
ben_vulpes	see also "mote in gods eye" "gripping hand"	[07:46]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes anyway, she was just... i dunno, her bubble was neverendingly shockingly short. you could rarely predict what she won't foresee	[07:46]
ben_vulpes	sounds like fun, at a distance, and on someone else's bill.	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	my thoughts exactly.	[07:47]
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ben_vulpes	i'm content with being the dish-breaker and singer of things around these parts.	[07:47]
ben_vulpes	the office has dubbed me the {{oaf,hulk}}	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform оклематься ?	[07:48]
ben_vulpes	refrain is: "BEN SMASH"	[07:48]
mircea_popescu	ben smash, ben hurr, ben derp!	[07:48]
ben_vulpes	half the time it's entirely on purpose, as the thing was never built for use outside delicate programmer hands.	[07:48]
decimation	mircea_popescu: in the us all of the old 'glass cookware' that used to be made of borosilicate has been switched to plate glass	[07:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ~= 'shake it off'	[07:49]
ben_vulpes	decimation: and not just plate, but pre-stressed plate!	[07:49]
mircea_popescu	decimation uh... why ?	[07:49]
ben_vulpes	decimation: so as to not just crack when over-stressed, but to rupture catastrophically!	[07:49]
mircea_popescu	anyway, this device would have been fine, if she knew how to pour	[07:49]
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Adlai	more efficient selection against stupidity?	[07:49]
mircea_popescu	Из полузапретных катакомб, ahahha wtf.	[07:50]
decimation	http://nowiknow.com/the-war-against-pyrex/ because it's cheaper and supposedly 'shatters better' when dropped	[07:50]
assbot	Now I Know – The War Against Pyrex	[07:50]
decimation	it's another example of hidden inflation	[07:50]
ben_vulpes	'cept that pyrex doesn't shatter when dropped.	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	http://www.hickchicktours.com/ << check this ecommerce site.	[07:50]
assbot	Home - Hick Chick Tours	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	decimation what the fuck jesus.	[07:51]
decimation	"As a result, the drug trade needed to find another way to obtain borosilicate glass. The unintended consequence of World Kitchen’s switch? An uptick in theft from an unlikely place. As PopSci so eloquently notes, “[the crack-making] industry was forced to switch from measuring cups purchased at Walmart to test tubes and beakers stolen from labs.”"	[07:51]
*	ben_vulpes misses the good stuff	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	ahhhh-merica.	[07:52]
*	Adlai loves the taxis in NYC tho	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	good god how	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	how can one love anything about nyc	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	actually no hang on	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	the great wall of garbage once per week was pretty cool	[07:52]
Adlai	getting locked into the cab until you pay	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	also the giant wall of black slush during snowfalls	[07:53]
Adlai	junkie-proof walls keeping the cabbie secure	[07:53]
Adlai	what's not to love	[07:53]
ben_vulpes	hm	[07:53]
*	assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal	[07:53]
ben_vulpes	that shoe store on 14th is p cool	[07:53]
decimation	one wonders if usg didn't pressure corning as part of the 'war on useful objects' err 'war on drugs'	[07:53]
ben_vulpes	but the 'choclatier' next door was always the wackness	[07:53]
mircea_popescu	basically in another decade the us will be like africa.	[07:53]
decimation	why do you need a 'tour' to pub crawl?	[07:53]
ben_vulpes	will be?	[07:53]
mircea_popescu	"sure we have very good everything here sir, made of straw, good quality top notch"	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	portland already wants me to sort my compostables for them	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	how can one love anything about nyc << i love the taxis there too	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	haven't been since like 2003, but anyway.	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	i mean you pay them, they go places, it's a simple exchange	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	but love?	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	that's a bit strong	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	ever told you about my find a hotel adventure ?	[07:55]
ben_vulpes	noooo	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	i take a cab out of grand central, tell the kid i want a hotel, kinda close and not too expensive	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	he takes me to a hotel like ten blocks away, costs me 100 a night. nice room and everything.	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	black kid, too.	[07:55]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: you should see the touchscreen computers they have now to keep passengers from yakking at the cabbies, complete with a GPS map of your path through the city... almost feels like an airplane	[07:55]
ben_vulpes	pfwat	[07:56]
Adlai	pfyes	[07:56]
ben_vulpes	100/D in nyc?	[07:56]
ben_vulpes	not you, Adlai	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	whole thing took ten minutes, that guy probably did more for me than half the gradschool educated people i ever employed, on a percentile basis	[07:56]
Adlai	FINE	[07:56]
ben_vulpes	i'm familiar with those too, Adlai	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	Adlai but i like talking to the cabbies.	[07:56]
ben_vulpes	the NYC version is really awesome, what with rebooting into "LOUD MODE"	[07:56]
ben_vulpes	in pdx that shit starts up muted	[07:57]
ben_vulpes	you can even derp your card in before the trip ends to expedite egress from vehicle	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	ifucking hate lcds in neckrests.	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	and i wouldn't poay with a card wtf.	[07:57]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: actually the one cabbie i had an heart2heart with tracked us down ten minutes later to return my friend's iphone whateverthelatestis	[07:57]
ben_vulpes	and we have a functioning economy, so cabbies don't lock the door	[07:57]
ben_vulpes	actually i should say	[07:57]
ben_vulpes	i have a healthy relationship with my cab co's and they don't lock the door on me	[07:58]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: bad bezzlar!	[07:58]
decimation	London cabbies are amusing too. I remember one bitching about Pikeys squatting on some farmer's land and appealing to the EU court of human rights	[07:58]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes you know what ? i have never used a cc at a pos. ever.	[07:58]
Adlai	he was really nice considering my friend's dog got cabsick all over the backseat	[07:58]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: and i've not carried cash routinely since i stopped doing that thing that entailed always carrying cash. so?	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	fuck that, i'd rather go naked.	[07:59]
ben_vulpes	roll with cash in the states, get robbed by cops.	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	man must always carry enough cash to bribe a first instance judge	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	you never know.	[07:59]
asciilifeform	or even by ordinary robbers	[07:59]
decimation	ben_vulpes: how quickly do you think people in the us would start using cash if suddenly say the FDIC went away?	[07:59]
asciilifeform	(in usa, stolen cc is usually a non-issue, max liability is ~500 usd by statute)	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	decimation i think he may have a point with the cop robbery	[08:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7378 @ 0.00074009 = 5.4604 BTC [+]	[08:00]
ben_vulpes	decimation: more likely to run a tab with your local providers, as I do.	[08:00]
decimation	yeah that's how they did it in 'frontier times'	[08:00]
ben_vulpes	actually mircea_popescu this is why i don't carry cash. all of my local providers know who i am and extend me credit at my request.	[08:00]
decimation	go to local store, run a tab, owner knows where you live..	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes suppose you meet a super hot chick.	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	ask her for credit too ?	[08:00]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: how do you settle the tabs? sacks of gold, delivered on mules?	[08:01]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he does rockets.	[08:01]
mircea_popescu	wednesday evening, goes on balcony, starts firing	[08:01]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: nah, she asks me for credit	[08:01]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: pay with cash, get discount as merchants don't report cash intake and don't pay cc processing fees.	[08:01]
asciilifeform	all of my local providers know who i am and extend me credit at my request << this must be some other usa i've never been to	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	ofc i have to book the withdrawal as "profit", but...	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	you're exactly like a fucking mobster.	[08:02]
asciilifeform	or the planet from eric frank russel's 'and then there were none' tale	[08:02]
decimation	I've settled a few 'ebay' transactions where the tax was 'forgiven' if paid in cash	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: high praise, not deserving	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	i know a few tricks, that's about all.	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i had this grocery store owner (african woman) that actually imported shit at my request. and delivered it, too.	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	it's possible, just gotta not live in wa-shit-ton i guess	[08:03]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: you live in the heart of the beast. i live in the heart of cascadia. our worlds are light years apart.	[08:03]
asciilifeform	in nyc?	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform mass	[08:03]
decimation	"the hills are high and the emperor is far away"	[08:03]
asciilifeform	actually i have reasons to suspect that there are closed communities of people living approximately like people, even here	[08:03]
asciilifeform	but membership is generally by birth.	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	yeah but you don't like the sewers	[08:03]
decimation	asciilifeform: I'm sure there are. In NYC the famous example is the jews	[08:03]
ben_vulpes	quite literally, decimation. our hill is so high that our water supply flows from it.	[08:04]
ben_vulpes	;;google bull run	[08:04]
gribble	First Battle of Bull Run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; The Battle of Bull Run Summary & Facts \| Civilwar.org: ; Bullrun:	[08:04]
ben_vulpes	ah, fy google	[08:04]
ben_vulpes	;;google bull run reservoir	[08:04]
gribble	Bull Run River (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Bull Run Watershed \| The City of Portland, Oregon: ; Portland's Water System \| The City of Portland, Oregon:	[08:04]
ben_vulpes	watershed, dorp.	[08:04]
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decimation	;;google nyc jew bus	[08:05]
gribble	Vamoose Bus - NYC \| Maryland \| Virginia: ; Bus Segregation of Jewish Women Prompts Review - NYTimes.com: ; Women Riding Brooklyn's B110 Bus Told To Sit In The Back ...:	[08:05]
ben_vulpes	anyways, sleep beckons and i gotta be on point for the boys next week.	[08:05]
ben_vulpes	leadership, as they say, starts at 6.	[08:06]
asciilifeform	idleness is on duty 24/7!	[08:06]
Adlai	lazyness waits for everybody	[08:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24625 @ 0.00073982 = 18.2181 BTC [-] {2}	[08:13]
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mircea_popescu	!up indiancandy1	[08:24]
-assbot-	You voiced indiancandy1 for 30 minutes.	[08:24]
*	assbot gives voice to indiancandy1	[08:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61551 @ 0.00074264 = 45.7102 BTC [+] {2}	[08:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21690 @ 0.00074281 = 16.1115 BTC [+] {2}	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	"Fuck yes we can. I have student loan debt. Am I going to pay it ? Nope. Not ever. Over my dead fucking body will they get a penny from me.	[08:35]
mircea_popescu	Why? Because I don't want to fund the evil banksters who prey on impressionable young 18 year olds who don't know jack shit about the world, 18-year olds who are pressured by society into college they can't afford."	[08:35]
mircea_popescu	lol this is going to end well	[08:35]
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TheNewDeal	has to be a usian, amiright?	[08:38]
decimation	sounds like the people who just stop paying taxes, irs comes, gasenwagen, gulag	[08:38]
decimation	https://bitcointa.lk/threads/argentina-debt-crisis-u-s-demands-1-5-billion-cash-bitcoin-to-rescue.330274/page-2	[08:38]
assbot	Argentina Debt Crisis: U.S. Demands 1.5 billion cash (Bitcoin to Rescue?) \| Page 2 \| Bitcointa.lk	[08:38]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[08:39]
decimation	heh the next post: "Huh? You had a choice to go to uni and further your education. Be a man and stand by your decisions. "	[08:39]
pete_dushenski	good evening b-a	[08:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24166 @ 0.00074098 = 17.9065 BTC [-]	[08:39]
decimation	reminds me of: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/10/missionary_doctors_treating_ebola_in_africa_why_people_are_suspicious_of.html	[08:40]
pete_dushenski	congrats be to cazalla BingoBoingo and mircea_popescu for the qntra announcement!	[08:40]
assbot	Missionary doctors treating Ebola in Africa: Why people are suspicious of missionaries.	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	TheNewDeal yep	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	decimation not so. usually it takes about 10 years	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	IF you have a lot of money.	[08:40]
cazalla	pete_dushenski, ty	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	most poor people get that added benefit, thatthey can just forego the irs altogether	[08:40]
decimation	mircea_popescu: yeah if you have a semi-competent tax lawyer you can probably avoid jail, just pay the fine	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	;;rated cazalla	[08:41]
gribble	You rated user cazalla on Fri Oct 10 19:05:29 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: qntra.net chief editor..	[08:41]
pete_dushenski	the mpex-qntra relationship is quite the crafty little construction. puts other efforts to shame.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	decimation the thing is they work on a per dollar basis. if there's nothing to steal they can't afford to prosecute you.	[08:41]
decimation	for poor people in the us, taxes pay you	[08:41]
pete_dushenski	though the only other effort that comes to mind is that of ltb (andreas' first home) with their broke back counterparty baloney. so not much comp but...	[08:42]
decimation	http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/EITC-Home-Page--It%E2%80%99s-easier-than-ever-to-find-out-if-you-qualify-for-EITC	[08:42]
assbot	EITC Home Page--Its easier than ever to find out if you qualify for EITC	[08:42]
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gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: where is that quote from? "Fuck yes we can...."	[08:46]
pete_dushenski	oh and my apologies for the penguirker spam earlier. i was changing hosting plans and had to rejigger the whole meal deal.	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	decimation linked it above	[08:46]
pete_dushenski	the upside is now i have an avatar for commenting on other blogs and that contravex has a snazzy new recent comments sidebar.	[08:47]
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mircea_popescu	good for you!	[08:50]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: i had actually read that qntra "pending announcement" bit in the logs, though meanwhile forgotten. in my defense, you never mentioned much in the way of terms or wtf you were even alluding to :D	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	:p	[08:51]
pete_dushenski	o and contravex's footnotes now have the proper indentation so you can now see all the roman numerals :)	[08:52]
decimation	pete_dushenski: what blogging system do you use?	[08:52]
pete_dushenski	wordpress	[08:53]
pete_dushenski	unfortunately the switch over meant some updates (spit) and whatnot	[08:53]
*	assbot removes voice from indiancandy1	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski sent you a pingback. fix the hole will you.	[08:55]
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pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: i'm on it.	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you too.	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	who else is running wp blogs ?	[08:57]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: which contravex article did you ping?	[08:59]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00073751 = 13.7177 BTC [-] {2}	[09:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31585 @ 0.00073741 = 23.2911 BTC [-] {2}	[09:23]
penguirker	New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/coinjar-confident-despite-recent-difficulties/	[09:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5688 @ 0.00073816 = 4.1987 BTC [+]	[09:29]
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Adlai	kakobrekla: so you like lisp?	[09:30]
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Adlai	try writing the shortest possible quine in ansi cl. if you want to check the answer, it was just in #lisp and there are public logs, but try yourself before you check.	[09:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21095 @ 0.0007392 = 15.5934 BTC [+] {2}	[09:47]
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mircea_popescu	;;later tell pete_dushenski your latest.	[10:00]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[10:00]
mircea_popescu	Pingback from http://trilema.com/o-hai-let-me-wanna-be.php?id=www.contravex.com/2014/10/11/the-six-pillars-for-surviving-in-computer-times/ to http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/11/the-six-pillars-for-surviving-in-computer-times/ registered. Keep the web talking! :-)	[10:00]
assbot	O hai let me wanna-be! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[10:00]
assbot	The Six Pillars For Surviving in Computer Times \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[10:00]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[20:31]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[20:31]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[20:31]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[20:31]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[20:32]
*	assbot gives voice to Adlai	[20:33]
*	assbot gives voice to lampelina	[20:33]
*	Adlai is stuck without X after a borked reboot, but qntra looks alright in framebuffer w3m	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	hey kakobrekla http://bitbet.us/bet/1054/bitcoin-to-drop-under-260-before-november/#c4132 << check out all the pentesting	[20:33]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $260 before November :: 2.57 B (20%) on Yes, 10.18 B (80%) on No \| closing in 6 hours 28 minutes \| weight: 3`249 (100`000 to 1)	[20:33]
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kakobrekla	some heavy shit.	[20:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00073464 = 10.285 BTC [-]	[20:35]
TheNewDeal	can't tell if you two are joking or are serious?	[20:36]
kakobrekla	thats the beauty of it.	[20:37]
BingoBoingo	!b 2	[20:39]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1CXMX50.txt )	[20:39]
Adlai	holy shit, bitbet is painful in w3m	[20:43]
kakobrekla	is it?	[20:44]
kakobrekla	let see	[20:44]
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BingoBoingo	!up devthedev	[20:48]
*	assbot gives voice to devthedev	[20:48]
Adlai	http://dpaste.com/3X9Y71M	[20:49]
assbot	dpaste: 3X9Y71M	[20:49]
Adlai	surprisingly painless to do that once you get familiar with tmux	[20:50]
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devthedev	BingoBoingo: Are articles written by yourself of cazalla calculated into the "wordcount of qualified articles published"?	[20:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00073544 = 12.2083 BTC [+]	[20:55]
BingoBoingo	devthedev: I am pretty sure they do.	[20:56]
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mircea_popescu	Disappointingly, Matt brushed it off thus:	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	“This tradeoff in pingback’s design has been there for a decade now,” he said via email. “It’s seldom used outside of experimentation because it gets shut down by anti-spam providers like Akismet or web hosts when used at any scale, and there are cheaper, easier, and more effective ways to DDOS sites. That’s why no serious attacks (above 2gbps) use it.”	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	mullenweg is a total fucktard.	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	devthedev of course.	[20:58]
devthedev	Alright	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	Adlai what's that ?	[20:58]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: That's the fucktard's case for not fixing obvious hole?	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	yes.,	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	have you ever heard anything pareil ?!	[20:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00073544 = 9.7078 BTC [+]	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	i have a good mind to ddos wordpress with it tbh.	[20:59]
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Adlai	mircea_popescu: something bad happened to my graphics server so i'm stuck communicating with the world in text	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	Adlai it's pretty much designed to work fine in lynx	[21:00]
Adlai	bitbet or qntra?	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	bitbet	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	i don't think qntra is designed to anything, just yet	[21:00]
BingoBoingo	Reading up on this the fixed a similar problem with trackbacks back in 2.8, I don't know why it would be their position to make a sharp edge like this the default when the push themselve to people looking for feather cushions.	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	total bs, they never fixed it	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	the bug affects the codebase all the way through, to the first introducton of xlmrpc back in 2004 or w/e	[21:01]
bounce	therefore, it must be a feature	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	they made in the interval about 10 different claims to "having fixed it"	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	the way wp codebase works is indicative of what naggum described, the problem of maggots wanting the status of coder and so writing code for the sake of being coders.	[21:02]
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mircea_popescu	it's also a glimpse into bitcoin's future, if usgavin and the power retard crowd have their way	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	but just as an indication of the problem : w3 total cache, version 8.5 ? 250kb. w3 total cache, version 9.2 ? 1,8 mb	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	read it an d fucking weep, 1.8mb of caching code.	[21:04]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: ah, w3m is installed instead of lynx because it's ~65% smaller	[21:04]
*	Adlai fiddles	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	then derps derp about 50mn lines of code. seriously, bitch ? that's your caching ?	[21:04]
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mircea_popescu	Adlai im pretty sure you can view bitbet in emacs if it comes to it.	[21:04]
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*	Adlai M-x package-install w3	[21:06]
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kakobrekla	shit i got distracted by a pussy and a pair of tits.	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	piss the only thing missing ?	[21:09]
kakobrekla	so it it acceptable in lynx?	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	pretty much yes	[21:10]
kakobrekla	then i shall not bother with w3m	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	maybe you do that after it gets hacked, as punishment.	[21:10]
kakobrekla	nah, you get the punishment of recoding it from scratch for trusting me in the first place.	[21:11]
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mircea_popescu	hm	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	that is severe and unusual.	[21:11]
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kakobrekla	life is such.	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[21:15]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 380.93, Best ask: 381.35, Bid-ask spread: 0.42000, Last trade: 380.93, 24 hour volume: 21186.09124849, 24 hour low: 364.06, 24 hour high: 388.0, 24 hour vwap: 377.044702795	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	o noes	[21:15]
kakobrekla	hooray, meat!	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	eat two chickens today kako	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	you never know what tomorrow brings.	[21:16]
kakobrekla	shit i still dont even know what today brought.	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	" i got distracted by a pussy and a pair of tits." ?	[21:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1588 @ 0.0007385 = 1.1727 BTC [+]	[21:19]
Apocalyptic	[16:22:45] wall st bleeding // again ?	[21:20]
Apocalyptic	this is bleeding everyday for a while it seems	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	muyeah	[21:21]
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chetty	[16:22:45] wall st bleeding // again ?//seems to have mostly recovered since then	[21:25]
Apocalyptic	yeah that's what I just saw	[21:26]
ThickAsThieves	tis why i stopped trading stocks	[21:26]
ThickAsThieves	gs and friends troll traders hard	[21:26]
ThickAsThieves	waste of time learning that game	[21:26]
pete_dushenski	;;later tell cazalla: so regards to finding additional author, on the about page i added must be in wot + 6 months #b-a logs << yeshiva as prereq. smart. http://www.contravex.com/2014/03/17/irc-yeshiva/	[21:27]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[21:27]
wyrdmantis	A question for developers: if i wanted (only theoretically) to build a scamcoins exchange like bittrex, what language/framework is best to use? A guy has opened one in node.js. I think he's gonna get hacked very soon.	[21:27]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: added the necessary code to the necessary file and the necessary pingback to the necessary article :D	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	ty!	[21:28]
pete_dushenski	my pleasure.	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	wyrdmantis whenever you wish to build something hardened, you are advised to use the lowest level tools you can use.	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	this is why bunkers are made out of steel and concrete, even while luxury items are made out of silk and glass.	[21:29]
kakobrekla	eh	[21:29]
kakobrekla	steel is at the same level as glass	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	yeah shitty analogy	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	except you know, some stuff manages to be basic and advanced at the same time.	[21:30]
wyrdmantis	a friend asked the guy about db and got insulted and then silence. WTF people are so dumb. And yeah, node.js doesn't seem low level at all.	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	node.js is a great toolset to build your gf a dildo with.	[21:31]
Apocalyptic	heh	[21:31]
Apocalyptic	pretty much	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	what's the worst that'll hapen, it'll fuck her in the ass ?	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	FEATURE!	[21:31]
kakobrekla	in both cases, if you want to do it well or if you want to do it fast, you will want to use tools you know well	[21:32]
wyrdmantis	the exchange is this https://betasharex.com/	[21:32]
assbot	BetaShareX - Cryptocurrency Exchange	[21:32]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: npm install dildo.js	[21:32]
Apocalyptic	I thought the exchange mania has stopped, guess not	[21:32]
kakobrekla	that never stops	[21:33]
wyrdmantis	i don't want to do an altcoin exchange, that's sure	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic idol worshipping hasn't stopped either, it just moves further to the outskirts	[21:33]
kakobrekla	shit even i had one coded but didnt put it live	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	wyrdmantis it is a very shitty spot to be in, running one of those, because the shitcoins are often badly written, such as was the case with xrp.	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	then people will find how to ewxploit one, trade it for all the others you hold	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	and the idiots "using" your "service" won't understand that they're all equally worthless, so...	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	buncha bad blood for no good reason.	[21:34]
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Apocalyptic	yeah, that's the main reason I didn't want shitcoins in x-bt	[21:34]
kakobrekla	aha thats why theres no coins listed :)	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	lol hater.	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	he has atc doesn't he ?	[21:36]
wyrdmantis	i hope someone nuke it, arrogant dev is arrogant he insulted my friend	[21:36]
thestringpuller	yea that's the atc exchange I think is used in MPIF	[21:36]
Apocalyptic	well one could argue LTC is a shitcoin too, and it wouldn't be far from the truth	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	lol @this guy	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	wyrdmantis did he insult your friend badly ?	[21:37]
Apocalyptic	so i guess it has one after all	[21:37]
Azelphur	wyrdmantis: to answer your earlier question, the answer is the framework your developer is most proficient in using	[21:37]
kakobrekla	actually i think bash is wrong here. ltc is silver.	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	Azelphur so php ?	[21:37]
kakobrekla	(as silver is shit)	[21:37]
danielpbarron	wall street journal recently published an article featuring some of the more well known scamcoins	[21:37]
Azelphur	mircea_popescu: if you're good at PHP, use it. It's not the greatest of languages but it's perfectly functional.	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	just trolling for lolz	[21:38]
Apocalyptic	php=====functional returns false here	[21:38]
Azelphur	:P	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic it's functionally functional then	[21:38]
Azelphur	mircea_popescu: coding in PHP is one of the few socially acceptable forms of insanity	[21:38]
wyrdmantis	Azelphur thanks	[21:38]
Azelphur	wyrdmantis: welcome, I know it's a bit of a non-answer	[21:38]
*	danielpbarron used to code stuff in php	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	you all keep bashing it, but wordpress' xmlrpc is written in php	[21:38]
kakobrekla	its what i said really.	[21:38]
Azelphur	danielpbarron: me too :)	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	and wordpress' xmlrpc is the best thing in the world	[21:39]
bounce	ergo, php is the bees' knees and the "fractal of bad design" guy has it ALL WRONG	[21:39]
Apocalyptic	I just saw a few vulns for that one, it seems to be recurrent	[21:39]
Azelphur	mircea_popescu: indeed, goes back to what I said really, the quality of code produced is dependant on the programmer and not the language	[21:39]
wyrdmantis	mircea_popescu not so badly, but in a very arrogant way, and then no more technical answers	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	actually i have seen tight php.	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	it was mostly transliterated perl	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	harharhar :D	[21:39]
bounce	leveraging a write once language to help produce tight code in a notoriously sloppy language. can't you just taste the synergy?	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	either that or the dingleberry	[21:41]
Azelphur	that said there are other considerations, some languages/frameworks have limitations / specialties that others don't	[21:41]
Azelphur	eg if you try and do realtime in django you're going to have a bad time.	[21:41]
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mircea_popescu	is django actually named to suggest "d, j and go" ?	[21:42]
*	Adlai concludes that w3m is preferable to lynx	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	Adlai why that ?	[21:43]
Azelphur	mircea_popescu: nah, was named after a guitarist.	[21:43]
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Adlai	mircea_popescu: images don't display at all with lynx/links	[21:44]
Adlai	and they're bulkier both in size and speed	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	hm	[21:45]
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kakobrekla	didnt someone make cli interface?	[21:47]
Apocalyptic	%d	[21:47]
atcbot	[ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 319014.53 in 235 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -83.01	[21:47]
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Azelphur	kakobrekla: for MPEX? that was me.	[21:48]
Azelphur	https://github.com/Azelphur/pyMPEx	[21:48]
assbot	Azelphur/pyMPEx GitHub	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	i think FabianB did too. or no wait	[21:48]
kakobrekla	!s bitbet cli	[21:48]
assbot	1 results for 'bitbet cli' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitbet+cli	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	it was this italian chick maybe ?	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla yeah, yeah they did!	[21:48]
kakobrekla	1 hit: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2014#724114	[21:48]
assbot	Logged on 19-06-2014 01:29:12; kakobrekla: ;;rate punkman 1 bitbet cli dev	[21:48]
kakobrekla	lel	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	up punkman1	[21:49]
kakobrekla	ty log	[21:49]
bounce	http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2014/10/13/voice-harvesters-bureaucrats-businesses-gather-more-than-65-million-people/	[21:49]
assbot	The Voice Harvesters: Bureaucrats, businesses gather more than 65 million people's voiceprints \| Fox Business	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	Adlai you should check his code out btw, it's actually better if you want lightweight/text only than any browser	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	bounce incidentally, since you bring it up : most idiots of the "irc is not irl" and "i trust real people" variety fail to understand that with modern computers i can make any one person to say any one thing. just give me a collection of their voice recorded.	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	stuff here is not nearly as falsifiable as the "trustworthy" phonecall.	[21:50]
thestringpuller	i used to do that with tape recorders in my pops office back in the day	[21:51]
thestringpuller	that little home alone tape recorder thing	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	right, it's been iffy for 30+ years	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	but it's plain dead by today.	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	much like the "signature", ie, scribbling down on paper. fuck me, i have bills in this room issued by 6 different governments, they all have a signature on them	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	and i bet you the dude in question never touched any of the bills he "signed"	[21:52]
thestringpuller	signature stamps for the government	[21:53]
*	punkman1 is now known as punkman	[21:53]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[21:53]
kakobrekla	ohai!	[21:53]
kakobrekla	what the url to that thing again pls?	[21:54]
punkman	what someone is gonna use bitbet cli?	[21:54]
bounce	heh, it's actually worse than that. when gov't people talk about "signature management", these days that's plugins for their document management systems that govern copy/pasting pictures of signatures into "documents" that later may or may not end up getting printed.	[21:54]
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punkman	it's here https://bitbucket.org/abfg/bitbet.py but gotta upload updated version	[21:55]
assbot	abfg / bitbet.py — Bitbucket	[21:55]
bounce	anyhow barclays already rolled this out for their "wealthiest clients", so this sounds like an invitation to make good use of a tape recorder.	[21:55]
kakobrekla	mp: link this and btcalpha from faq?	[21:56]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla surely.	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	bounce it's been going on for a while, this scam. most brokers with high value accounts have been pretty spooked back in the 90s already	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	easiest sell for "bitch, use gpg" i ever had to make.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	once the guy hears "non repudiable, just keep the blob" eyes light up like an xmas tree	[21:59]
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bounce	rather gigantic mismatch between what the technology can do and understanding what it needs to do.	[22:00]
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mircea_popescu	word.	[22:00]
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bounce	but then, selling a totally complex fancy buzzword-laden magic (voice or otherwise) box counts as "innovation", whereas installing a mail client with decent gpg support does not.	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	that's not how you do it. you gift the guy a laptop and explain how to use it.	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	"gpg support" in clients is for the birds.	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	best gift you'll ever make, incidentally. for the 500 bux or w/e an old laptop costs you're probably going to get a yachtful of champagne	[22:03]
bounce	that's the price of a new laptop these days. cheapo, but anyhow.	[22:05]
chetty	sounds like a business plan, laptops with gpg installed plus instructions, name it lots of fancy words ...	[22:07]
bounce	needs a bit of buy-in since the other side needs something comparable.	[22:07]
bounce	s/comparable/compatible/	[22:07]
mircea_popescu	bounce well if you're giving them away supposedly you got your own system	[22:08]
bounce	yesh, but it doesn't scale. then again, maybe it doesn't need to. until it does, of course.	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	what od you mean it doesn't scale lmao	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	you know what else doesn't scale this way ?	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	THE INTERNET	[22:09]
asciilifeform	gpg.. yachtful << nope. they'd rather buy pwndildoes from 'crypto ag.' it's a 'technolordosis' signal to their master.	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	o shit, you need a computer at home to email ? o yea, totally, email doesn't scale	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not anyone i'd work with.	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	vote with your money stan. it's a very powerful concept.	[22:09]
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bounce	not that sense. in the sense that some people will thus end up with N (>>20) laptops to talk to N people.	[22:10]
mircea_popescu	bounce what ?!	[22:10]
asciilifeform	(and yes, i intend to write a post re: 'technolordosis.' for the lack of a better term, my current mental name for the deer/hunter symbiosis of voluntary chumpitude previously discussed on many occasions)	[22:10]
mircea_popescu	i must be missing like 20 laptops in here then ?!	[22:10]
mircea_popescu	OK WHICH ONE OF YOU BITCHES STOLE MY 20 LAPTOPS	[22:10]
asciilifeform	to vote with money, one first needs... money.	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah but we were kinda discussing large accounts and personal brokers hiar.	[22:11]
asciilifeform	i sorta assumed fat fiat accounts on fiat brokers.	[22:12]
bounce	anyhow, I don't have contact with personal brokers so no opportunity to try and test market uptake	[22:12]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's exactly what it is.	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	bounce no but i mean, people like shrem or ulbricht or w/e ? that's the right move in their position. hire lawyer, make it conditional upon all communication going through gpg	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	a lawyer readily understands the value of ACTUAL attorney-client privilege	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to constructive	[22:13]
bounce	why aren't lawyers speaking up when there's yet another law mandating massive snooping on everyone with a few of those constructive bones thrown in? lack of understanding that actual is possible?	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	you get much better counsel once he gets familiar with the safeties provided by cryptography, too. so it's win-win	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	bounce because of the individual effect. why didn't people in leningrad speak up ?	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	why didn't the workers speak up before unions ?	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	because on his own, aperson is just a person.	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	once you give them a means to speak up they will.	[22:15]
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*	justusranvier_ is now known as justusranvier	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	hence why "providing nucleation" is so important	[22:16]
asciilifeform	ulbricht << unless he's learned to grind rsa in his head, how is this to happen? his jailers will otherwise have the key at their leisure.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	nah	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	he meets with lawyer	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	lawyer has everything that comes in and everything that comes out crypted	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	they uncrypt in the cell and talk.	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	only way to do it.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	afaik the whole client-attourney privilege thing is a dead letter in usaschwitz. (the buggers can do as they please and parallelconstruct.)	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	no, it's not.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	they'll make copies of the gpg'd blobs at the most	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	which... whatevs.	[22:19]
asciilifeform	seriously suggesting that a prisoner in usa can keep a key secure (other than one which fits in his head) ?	[22:19]
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chetty	I dont think lawyers get into cells anymore either, isn't it telephones and glass?	[22:22]
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asciilifeform	IANAL - but afaik, usg claims a total right to control the communications of prisoners. and lawyers who are suspected of stretching the official rules (e.g., getting a message out to your mother, whatever) can be effectively fired by usg.	[22:24]
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chetty	practically the definition of police state	[22:27]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not so.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	there's exactl;y nothing the prosecution can do to nosy into the defense briefs, abnd they wouldn't even dare ask because they've got no way to know if they're being set up for a mistrial or what.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	and if in fact it does result in a mistrial for counsel tampering & conspiracy, the da in question can very well go to jail on the spot	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	doesn't even get a trial, the judge can just sentence him for contempt, six months, no problemo	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	and if he DOES get held in criminal contempt he gets disbarred, and might as well learn a new trade.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	so, no. ain't happening.	[22:35]
chetty	back when there were real judges ..	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	chetty it's not a task any of the pencildicks would take regardless.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	and if they weren't pencidlicks they'd be here with me, rather than over there with the sops.	[22:35]
chetty	matter of who they are more afraid of	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	quite so.	[22:36]
asciilifeform	mega-lol. nothing of the kind, afaik, has happened in many years. how could it, with tame judges, tame da-s, tame legislature, ... , etc.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: still think 'rule of law' thing is still a thing in usa? seriously?	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	the only reason it's never happened to date is simply that a da wouldn't have made it that far if he were insane enough to try something like you propose.	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not rule of law. but plenty of upstanding individuals regardless. enough so to readily be leveraged into serious trouble for bureaucratic miscreants	[22:38]
asciilifeform	when they do 'this', it won't look like a 'this.' it'll look like a parallel-whatever - dumb prisoner gave his key to 'Bubba' in exchange for butseks, etc.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	except if the defense counsel testifies to it.	[22:39]
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mircea_popescu	which is what i said. they wouldn't even dare ask, because they don't know if it's a set-up.	[22:39]
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mircea_popescu	moreover, your example doesn't actually work.	[22:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.12999958 = 1.3 BTC [+] {3}	[22:40]
ThickAsThieves	Circle is funny, theyre supposedly no-fee, which is only really true when selling, but when you sell, they pay nearly 1% premium bonus	[22:44]
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ThickAsThieves	my best guess is they get more than that when you buy	[22:44]
kakobrekla	punkman just tried the cli and got trapped in ddos jail :)	[22:44]
ThickAsThieves	and have some kinda scheme going	[22:45]
punkman	kakobrekla: after trying to "update" I assume	[22:46]
kakobrekla	correct	[22:46]
kakobrekla	current settings are maxretry = 200, findtime = 120, bantime = 3600 - you think you can get around that?	[22:47]
punkman	kakobrekla: it even sleep 1 sec inbetween requests, what more do you want	[22:48]
punkman	:P	[22:48]
kakobrekla	huh?	[22:48]
kakobrekla	wouldnt trip it with 1s sleep	[22:49]
punkman	https://bitbucket.org/abfg/bitbet.py/src/be26e37e4068b1ddb5a755c22b76763332de29d9/bitbetlib/betdb.py?at=master#cl-111	[22:49]
assbot	abfg / bitbet.py / source / bitbetlib / betdb.py — Bitbucket	[22:49]
kakobrekla	as you would be hitting 120 out of 200 per 2min.	[22:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00074191 = 18.5478 BTC [+]	[22:49]
kakobrekla	maybe python second is different from my second. the only logical explanation.	[22:55]
punkman	PHP seconds are probably longer	[22:55]
kakobrekla	its actually haproxy we are talking about.	[22:56]
punkman	just run update on mine and it worked	[22:56]
kakobrekla	yeah cause you had a small update.	[22:56]
kakobrekla	less than 200 req.	[22:56]
punkman	well I'll make it sleep longer I guess	[22:57]
kakobrekla	idk 1 per second constantly should be working.	[22:58]
penguirker	New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/news-and-score-enable-bitcoin-betting/	[22:58]
kakobrekla	imma test it	[22:58]
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mircea_popescu	kakobrekla http://qntra.net/2014/10/news-and-score-enable-bitcoin-betting/ << check it out, lol.	[23:00]
assbot	News And Score Enable Bitcoin Betting	[23:00]
BingoBoingo	%d	[23:00]
atcbot	[ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 318823.44 in 234 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -83.02	[23:00]
kakobrekla	"for some time" < some years yes.	[23:01]
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BingoBoingo	All of the Years	[23:02]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[23:02]
penguirker	New blog post: http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/13/qntra-reaffirms-wot-irc-yeshiva-way-optional/	[23:03]
pete_dushenski	^spreading the word :D	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	lol tsla under 225 ? heh	[23:04]
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mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski cool!	[23:04]
pete_dushenski	the author reqs tipped me over the edge.	[23:05]
ThickAsThieves	wow listen to thiel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYjmCOc949I	[23:05]
assbot	Peter Thiel: Bitcoin needs a payment system to work - YouTube	[23:05]
pete_dushenski	and that crafty little stock issuance model pushed me up the hill!	[23:05]
ThickAsThieves	Thiel officially has been compromised	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves he's basically saying "paypal isn't dead"	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	he's stuck doing it, no ? his thing.	[23:06]
ThickAsThieves	he goes past that	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	well if anyone does a transcription i'll skim it	[23:06]
ThickAsThieves	saying bitcoin is hard to transact and only good for illegal stuff	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	but im not listening to thiel drone.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves teh party line change identified last week solidifies eh ?	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	hehehe	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	it's total fudpropaganda	[23:07]
Apocalyptic	ThickAsThieves, so basically what clueless people have been saying for years now ?	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	it's like watching a politician lie	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	i guess that's exactly what it is	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic now we know that they HAVE in fact been defeated, oct 5th	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	and it smarts.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/this-is-how-much-i-rule-today/ << never 4get!	[23:08]
assbot	This is how much I rule (today) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[23:08]
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ThickAsThieves	bitcoin up $100 since, thanks!	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	anyway, anyone with serious long term btc plans better get your criminal suits ready	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	looks like we will be killing people before this is over.	[23:09]
penguirker	New blog post: http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/13/qntra-reaffirms-wot-irc-yeshiva-in-no-way-optional/	[23:10]
ThickAsThieves	now with more new!	[23:10]
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Apocalyptic	;;seen pankkake	[23:10]
gribble	pankkake was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 1 day, 6 hours, 27 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: here is 0.000195.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	!up xinxi	[23:10]
-assbot-	You voiced xinxi for 30 minutes.	[23:10]
*	assbot gives voice to xinxi	[23:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you really thought they'd surrender, just like that ?	[23:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00074148 = 28.1021 BTC [-] {2}	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	i didn't think anything tbh.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	people get their chances, they use them or not, fuck i care.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	anyway, from what i recall and from everything i've read, illegal periods are the best part of any revolution. i imagine they'll be loads of fun for the reaction just as much.	[23:12]
punkman	kakobrekla: tried bigger update didn't see any errors	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	certainly stalin had a better time of it in the 1914s than in the 1954s	[23:12]
xinxi	;;eauth wangxinxi	[23:14]
gribble	Request successful for user wangxinxi, hostmask xinxi!8984fa09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.132.250.9. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/331894345B459329	[23:14]
kakobrekla	fml 1 per second is no good.	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	xinxi are you the guy that did the chinese version of anjiecast's article by any chance ?	[23:14]
xinxi	;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:475b46ba59f944113e1beb804513bdb6c01c4eb89cf8c8e1cde797d8	[23:15]
gribble	You are now authenticated for user wangxinxi with key 331894345B459329	[23:15]
punkman	uploaded new bitbet.py version, hopefully sexy colors don't break your term http://i.imgur.com/KB21cbq.png	[23:15]
kakobrekla	it indeed is sexy.	[23:16]
xinxi	which article are you talking about?	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	!s 8btc.com	[23:16]
assbot	3 results for '8btc.com' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=8btc.com	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	hm weird.	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	let me dig for a second	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2014#868220 < there we go	[23:17]
assbot	Logged on 11-10-2014 02:49:02; mircea_popescu: ;;later tell princessnell http://www.8btc.com/bitcoin-is-great-but-it-wont-fix-our-monkey-brains check it out, you're big in china	[23:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2412 @ 0.00074093 = 1.7871 BTC [-]	[23:17]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone with serious long term btc plans better get your criminal suits ready << pinstripes ok?	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	im not even sure what the fashion is, this time around	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	best check with our insider designer fashionistas i guess ?	[23:18]
pete_dushenski	i think double-breasted is coming back	[23:18]
pete_dushenski	just trimmer now	[23:18]
xinxi	no I am not that guy. but i am just curious how you know i am chinese.	[23:19]
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BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone with serious long term btc plans better get your criminal suits ready << pinstripes ok? << I'll probably just break out the old Party Toga from College.	[23:19]
pete_dushenski	xinxi: haha um… your name?	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	xinxi * xinxi (8984fa09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.132.250.9) has joined #bitcoin-assets ?	[23:19]
ThickAsThieves	just wear black	[23:19]
ThickAsThieves	all that really matters	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	i dun like black so much.	[23:20]
ThickAsThieves	well youre in ba	[23:20]
xinxi	ok. you guys are good at this.	[23:20]
xinxi	the article is good.	[23:21]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: oct 5th never 4get! << but i thought sept 26 was your day?	[23:21]
pete_dushenski	two in two weeks might be a bit much!	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski as time goes by i keep acumulating days it seems	[23:21]
BingoBoingo	just wear black << Party today is basically just black oil cloth with some sort of gold fabric for the sash. Definitely heavier than togas worn by those three times my weight	[23:21]
xinxi	do you trade here?	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	;;rate xinxi 1 Guy's Chinese, what more can you ask for.	[23:22]
pete_dushenski	xinxi: which article?	[23:22]
gribble	Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	;;rate wangxinxi 1 Guy's Chinese, what more can you ask for.	[23:22]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user wangxinxi has been recorded.	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	xinxi now you can self-voice. pm assbot !up after you identified with gribble.	[23:22]
xinxi	great. thanks	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	%d	[23:23]
atcbot	[ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 318823.44 in 234 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -83.02	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	two hundred, good god.	[23:23]
Apocalyptic	this feels like a decade	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	X-Rob excuse me sir, which week is this ? 5th ? 6th ?	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo you recall ?	[23:23]
X-Rob	I honestly have no idea	[23:23]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: I'll check statements	[23:23]
X-Rob	and I'm in the middle of a bastard CVE at the moment	[23:23]
kakobrekla	punkman yeah no need to prolong the sleep, it now actually is 200 per 120s.	[23:24]
xinxi	;;gettrust wangxinxi	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	X-Rob aite, no worries.	[23:24]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask wangxinxi!8984fa09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.132.250.9. Trust relationship from user wangxinxi to user wangxinxi: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=wangxinxi&dest=wangxinxi \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=wangxinxi \| Rated since: Mon Oct 13 16:19:46 2014	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	hey we bumped into the guy that fucked up the atc diff, in another chan	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	railzand	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	xinxi it's cached so give it like an hour to propagate ?	[23:24]
X-Rob	ThickAsThieves: yeeeeessss...	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves he was here, it's captured on trilema.	[23:24]
kakobrekla	(before it was 100 per 120 for some known but retarded reason)	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	oh	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla as per carlin's "ways to keep programmers on their toes" : announce 120, implement 100. that should hold them for about half an hour.	[23:25]
kakobrekla	:)	[23:25]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu, X-Rob: Going by trading statements... This seems like week 9	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	;;gettrust assbot wangxinxi	[23:25]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask wangxinxi!8984fa09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.132.250.9. Trust relationship from user assbot to user wangxinxi: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=wangxinxi \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=wangxinxi \| Rated since: Mon Oct 13 16:19:46 2014	[23:25]
X-Rob	BingoBoingo: Awesome!	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	there you go.	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo o so he's finally off the hook ? god damed!	[23:26]
X-Rob	Heh	[23:26]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: anyway, from what i recall and from everything i've read, illegal periods are the best part of any revolution. i imagine they'll be loads of fun for the reaction just as much. << http://www.reactiongifs.com/stewie-oh-goody/	[23:26]
assbot	Stewie: Oh, goody - Reaction GIFs	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	just as i was enjoying the deal ;/	[23:26]
X-Rob	I'm happy to hang around, mircea_popescu	[23:26]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well you could always sign him again.	[23:26]
xinxi	I need to go to sleep now. It's 4:24 am here.	[23:26]
xinxi	ttyl	[23:26]
BingoBoingo	Keep his hash in friendly hands for the next diff drop.	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	wow check it out, they still sleep in china.	[23:27]
pete_dushenski	xinxi: cheers	[23:27]
xinxi	cheer	[23:27]
xinxi	cheers	[23:27]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: from 4:30-6:00am...	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo yeah ima going to try and make him give me moar for less seeing how the estimated difficulty increase never materialised!	[23:27]
xinxi	I sleep in Singapore	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	0.21 next round X-Rob ? :D	[23:27]
asciilifeform	from we-hate-laptops-dept. news: it is well known that you can only buy lcd panels with 6-bit colour channels now. the latest ones look just like cheap newsprint when the dithering (e.g. gray screenfull) kicks in.	[23:27]
X-Rob	mircea_popescu: Mmmmm. Sounds plausible. I won't turn anything off.	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah srsly, the terminal suffers so!	[23:28]
X-Rob	you've still got this week anyway	[23:28]
X-Rob	and for the next couple of weeks I'm in the US.	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	yup ima pay you now and we can talk about it once you're free	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	laters!	[23:28]
asciilifeform	but interestingly, only some people can see it (showed it to one fellow, he could, other - not)	[23:29]
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mircea_popescu	yeah vision in human is widely variant	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	better classifier than skin tone actually.	[23:30]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: so no macbook pro retina? ;)	[23:30]
BingoBoingo	but interestingly, only some people can see it (showed it to one fellow, he could, other - not) << colorbliness being incredibly common is super open secret sort of disabilitit	[23:30]
ThickAsThieves	yeah sound slike you need a macbook	[23:30]
penguirker	New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/surveillance-mogul-make-bitcoin-like-paypal/	[23:30]
asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: apple ships 6-bit only for several years now.	[23:30]
BingoBoingo	yeah sound slike you need a macbook << Macintosh portable seems like better value proposition	[23:30]
ThickAsThieves	really? then i guess you need to carry an imac around	[23:31]
asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: no, seriously - apple -only- ships 6-bit panels. in all products. since '08 or so.	[23:31]
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asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: because, afaik, that is the only kind being produced. anywhere.	[23:32]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: Macintosh portable seems like better value proposition << my mom had one of these when i was young. she used to take it on business trips to russia.	[23:34]
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BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Best value proposition though is Ti-89	[23:34]
pete_dushenski	can't really irc with one...	[23:35]
BingoBoingo	Why not? Has serial connection	[23:35]
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pete_dushenski	hm. i guess so.	[23:36]
pete_dushenski	or this: http://education.ti.com/en/us/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-nspire-cx-cas-handheld/tabs/overview#tab=specifications	[23:37]
assbot	TI-Nspire CX CAS - Math. Science. Algebraic Precision. All on One Handheld. by Texas Instruments - US and Canada	[23:37]
danielpbarron	still got my ti-89; that was my favorite toy in school / used it in non-math classes instead of paying attention	[23:37]
BingoBoingo	STFU, need color computer. You need color go outside. Find girl and take on date. Much color there. Computer just needs === True	[23:38]
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BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: The nspire uses Arm turd	[23:38]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: til	[23:39]
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danielpbarron	i like color terminal; i color nicknames based on WoT rating	[23:42]
bounce	value proposition for what?	[23:43]
BingoBoingo	Calculating missile routes.	[23:44]
bounce	how about a hp50g then?	[23:44]
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BingoBoingo	Sounds interesting	[23:46]
danielpbarron	i wonder if i can get any of the freetalklive derps to join -assets / been tweeting at them for a while now	[23:47]
BingoBoingo	Who are they?	[23:47]
danielpbarron	they think they are in Bitcoin and are on over 100 radio stations in the US	[23:47]
BingoBoingo	Ah	[23:48]
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danielpbarron	not sure if they are government plants or just really naive	[23:51]
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*	guruvan (~guruvan@gateway/tor-sasl/guruvan) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:52]
BingoBoingo	danielpbarron: Well you have to consider the idiots who write us off for suggesting Hearn or Gavin could be coopted and have interest agaisnt Bitcoin.	[23:56]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in exactly the same place as the goats growing recombinant butyrylcholinesterase (antidote+prophylactic against organophosphate poisoning, $30k+ a dose at current production methods) << steepish. but is one dose enough?	[23:56]
*	OX3 (~OX3@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:56]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: For obolacare, one is never enough	[23:56]
*	daybyter (~andreas@88.134.14.197) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:57]
pete_dushenski	sure. but goats are presumably for private parties only, neh?	[23:57]
pete_dushenski	the politburo types...	[23:57]
danielpbarron	BingoBoingo, one of them wants to write me off for suggesting that altcoins are not a thing, and another outright bashed bitcoin in favor of whatever scamcoin of the month he fancies	[23:58]
BingoBoingo	danielpbarron: Ah so these are warrior forum sorts. Also know as the Glen Beck will say anything so long as it keeps Goldline happy.	[23:59]
*	assbot gives voice to devthedev	[23:59]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Maybe?	[23:59]
devthedev	danielpbarron: freetalklive?	[23:59]

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