Forum logs for 13 Jan 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mircea_popescu: yeh [00:26]
mircea_popescu: !~google salina turda [00:27]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Salina Turda - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salina_Turda> Salina Turda Salt Mine: <http://salinaturda.eu/%3Flang%3Den> Salina Turda amusement park in Romania - Business Insider: <http://www.businessinsider.com/salina-turda-amusement-park-in-romania-2015-7> [00:27]
davout: in other false pope news http://yournewswire.com/pope-francis-global-central-bank/ [02:56]
davout: sorry, antipope [02:56]
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-13#1602076 << tyvm! [06:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-13 00:12 pete_dushenski: Framedragger: no worries, it's updated. [06:29]
mircea_popescu: nooow then, let's continue with this lisp thingee. [07:49]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E7AD433551E8685B6C4269A2AA6E66E19F80FB175F3F0A4DE9756009B0D8166F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1673...8977 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.245.149.177 (ssh-rsa key from 77.245.149.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (host177.b6.trdns.com. TR) [08:52]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E7AD433551E8685B6C4269A2AA6E66E19F80FB175F3F0A4DE9756009B0D8166F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1509...9469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.245.149.177 (ssh-rsa key from 77.245.149.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (host177.b6.trdns.com. TR) [08:52]
mircea_popescu: i guess they're mostly going to be double bangs from now on huh. [08:57]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 30! [09:00]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 30! = 2.652528598121911E32 [09:01]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 16! [09:01]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 16! = 20922789888000 [09:01]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 8! [09:01]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 8! = 40320 [09:01]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 20! [09:02]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 20! = 2432902008176640000 [09:02]
asciilifeform: in other lulz -- https://archive.is/WxWgs << run moar weirdo closed chats [10:21]
mircea_popescu: digging through the logs to find a point of reference for " phf that actually goes back to a thread long time ago" i found http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-09#1320422 instead. how did the proposed solution work out for you phf ? [10:25]
a111: Logged on 2015-11-09 04:39 phf: which brings me to the point that i have folders for all but "make new hardware" item in that list of b-a scope in various states of disarray, and it would be great if there was some prioritization, like it was the case with eulora "oh we need this done, you do it". [10:25]
mircea_popescu: and otherwise, anyone recall the link to the big array/list discussion cuz i can't fucking find it [10:25]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-02#1444246 ? [11:21]
a111: Logged on 2016-04-02 01:12 phf: Nah, universally. A significant property of arrays shared across languages is that they give you some guarantees about access time, space utilization [11:21]
mircea_popescu: lessee [11:21]
mircea_popescu: very much. [11:22]
mircea_popescu: ty. howdja get it ? [11:22]
asciilifeform: it was memorable [11:22]
asciilifeform: because compact, correct description of 'what is array' [11:22]
mircea_popescu: nice. wanted to re=read it anyway. [11:22]
* mircea_popescu is preparing lisp mega-article. only 30k words or so. [11:23]
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3236870273259433@naggum.net.html << possibly related, re the 'resources' thing [11:24]
asciilifeform: 'Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two. You're not in Kansas, anymore. C is the language of the poor farmer village where the allocation of every seed and livestock matters, where taxes are low and public service non-existent.' [11:24]
asciilifeform: ^ actually a discussion of cl strings! [11:26]
mircea_popescu: this makes me loathe lisp and prefer c. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: there is no future, for the record, for the "big city" understood as rules of pronounciation, high taxes and "public services". [11:35]
asciilifeform: this goes back to the 'tallest tower' thread. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: much like his "car going off road is bad mkay" made my skin crawl. why the fuck would i ALWAYS go anywhere there's a road, what am i, too young to grow a beard ? [11:36]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is NO RELATION between civilisation and impotence. [11:36]
asciilifeform: why does 'city with paved roads and indoor plumbing' necessarily equate to 'impotence' ? [11:37]
mircea_popescu: phf for instance, is shockingly delicate, specifically because he's more from russia than you. and the japanese folk, ESPECIALLY back in the days when misspeaking to samurai == beheading, were remarkably delicate also. [11:37]
asciilifeform: i must've missed one hell of a thread. where, e.g., phf was 'delicate'..? [11:37]
mircea_popescu: so no, civilisation doth exist irrespective of "follow the road and wear breeches" [11:37]
mircea_popescu: it doesn't shock you, the man's delicacy ? [11:38]
asciilifeform: are we talking of same d00d? because the phf i recall sleeps in a tent, in arizona desert, surrounded by 48 virgins [11:38]
asciilifeform: or what was it. [11:38]
mircea_popescu: i meant in demeanor. [11:39]
asciilifeform: dunno, maybe he sat in kresty, and just weighs words veeery carefully. [11:39]
mircea_popescu: which is the point, somewhat. [11:39]
mircea_popescu: "big city" is very specifically NOT the big city where naggum dreamed to move, as depicted in sex and the city. [11:39]
asciilifeform: actually from my reading naggum's 'city' is simply 'place where the mains sockets work, the roads are smooth, and vehicle can be mercedes and not necessarily mule' [11:40]
mircea_popescu: big city as in, new orleans, with low taxes and slaves. not as in new york, with high taxes, "public services" and "pronounce words this way" [11:40]
mircea_popescu: this is a generous read to the point of wishful thinking, i suspect. [11:40]
asciilifeform: 'public service' does not necessarily mean 'communist', just means that it is available to folks within the walls. can have price of admission, as in medieval germany, it is not specified how 'public road' is paid for. [11:41]
mircea_popescu: but in any case there's absolutely no progre monopoly on civilisation. on the contrary. [11:41]
asciilifeform: naggum, for instance, used payware lisptrons that cost megabux. [11:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform define "public service" if you will ? [11:41]
asciilifeform: 'available ad libitum to those within the walls' [11:41]
mircea_popescu: naggum evidently intends restrictions as to shape AND USAGE. this you don't see because you opt to, but in his world, as constructed from his words, it is legitimate for someone to come and tell you "this isn't a proper use of the public service", and it is illegitimate for you to retort "tough" [11:42]
asciilifeform: it so happens that i read all of the material from the naggum archive. and apparently d00d lived in oslo, a very strongly socialist hellhole, and hated it for all of the right reasons. [11:43]
asciilifeform: (tax on auto, for instance, was 100k usd iirc) [11:43]
mircea_popescu: ironically, i'd make the auto tax 100x yearly average income. [11:43]
asciilifeform: the lulzy bit is that places like oslo, bangkok, etc. with draconian auto tax, still have jams. [11:47]
asciilifeform: just not of car. [11:47]
mircea_popescu: i have a solution for that, too! http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ [11:49]
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/13/mothers-and-fathers/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Mothers and fathers. [11:55]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B216777E530792039BCD01CA8DB5D3834CAF576E9FCA906E9DB886AEF9CD7851 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...3553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.200.63.156 (ssh-rsa key from 88.200.63.156 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown SI) [12:06]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B216777E530792039BCD01CA8DB5D3834CAF576E9FCA906E9DB886AEF9CD7851 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1639...7709 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.200.63.156 (ssh-rsa key from 88.200.63.156 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown SI) [12:06]
thestringpuller: !~seen jurov [12:46]
jhvh1: thestringpuller: jurov was last seen in #trilema 23 hours, 23 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <jurov> http://www.livescience.com/57461-army-wants-biodegradable-bullets.html << reality can outdo both onion and qntra [12:46]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/ << Trilema - My three days of AI [13:21]
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : ben_vulpes would you join candi here and set everyone in l1 to its eat list ? i deem you've satisfied contractual obligations re support if you'll be kind enough to bring it back within a day or two should it get knocked off that's entirely fine by my lights. and everyone else : have fun with the lisp repl, but don't abuse. [13:25]
BingoBoingo: In old news, bear food riot http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL22583868 [14:12]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/womens-march-alienating-white-women-with-platform/ << Qntra - "Women's March" Alienating White Women With Platform [15:06]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you have a key for her? [15:08]
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt [15:08]
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes. [15:08]
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KON9K/?raw=true [15:08]
candi_lustt: deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/i4aUD/?raw=true [15:08]
ben_vulpes: cool [15:08]
ben_vulpes: (+ 1 1) [15:08]
ben_vulpes: (say "hi") [15:09]
phf: (progn *users*) [15:09]
candi_lustt: ("asciilifeform" "ben_vulpes" "bingoboingo" "danielpbarron" "davout" "diana_coman" "hanbot" "jurov" "mike_c" "mircea_popescu" "mod6" "phf" "trinque") [15:09]
candi_lustt: i'm alive [15:10]
ben_vulpes: candi_lustt http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yXCkU/?raw=true eat [15:13]
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v147r/?raw=true [15:13]
ben_vulpes: (+ 1 1) [15:13]
candi_lustt: 2 [15:13]
ben_vulpes: (paste "butts") [15:13]
candi_lustt: error: #<undefined-function paste {10070D62E3}> [15:13]
ben_vulpes: (mpbot:paste "butts") [15:13]
candi_lustt: error: #<sb-int:simple-reader-package-error "The symbol ~S is not external in the ~A package." {10070E98E3}> [15:13]
ben_vulpes: (mpbot::paste "butts") [15:13]
candi_lustt: "http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ToMuj/?raw=true" [15:14]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you have a key for her? [15:14]
ben_vulpes: (mpbot:paste "butts") [15:16]
candi_lustt: error: The symbol "PASTE" is not external in the MPBOT package.Line: 1, Column: 72, File-Position: 72Stream: #<sb-impl::string-input-stream {10071B3B53}> [15:16]
ben_vulpes: betta [15:17]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: many of your parens escapes did not work in ai post [15:18]
trinque: ben_vulpes: if you princ that error iirc it wont fart out the format string [15:18]
ben_vulpes: also http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/#selection-3947.0-4087.77 would be worth preserving whitespace in to make the point [15:19]
ben_vulpes: (mpbot:paste "butts") [15:19]
candi_lustt: The symbol "PASTE" is not external in the MPBOT package.Line: 1, Column: 72, File-Position: 72Stream: #<sb-impl::string-input-stream {1007504E23}> [15:19]
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-13#1602256 << [15:19]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-13 20:13 candi_lustt: error: #<sb-int:simple-reader-package-error "The symbol ~S is not external in the ~A package." {10070E98E3}> [15:19]
phf: (mpbot::paste "butts") [15:19]
ben_vulpes: deeeeebugger [15:20]
ben_vulpes: heap exhausted game over [15:20]
trinque: heap inflation pls [15:20]
phf: oh somebody mentioned candi_lustt in a message, i think a111, and that triggered mp's code, which in turn has some exciting exponential properties [15:21]
ben_vulpes: aok [15:21]
ben_vulpes: > exciting [15:22]
ben_vulpes: so i guess in five minutes or so i'll restart her when freenode wakes up to the dead socket? [15:22]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/#identifier_10_71072 << busted [15:23]
ben_vulpes: standby 2 [15:29]
asciilifeform: in re shannonizer lulz, http://www.onthelambda.com/2014/02/20/how-to-fake-a-sophisticated-knowledge-of-wine-with-markov-chains/ [15:44]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/under-pressure-domestic-margin-trading-at-chinese-fiatbitcoin-interfaces-folding/ << Qntra - Under Pressure Domestic Margin Trading At Chinese fiat/Bitcoin Interfaces Folding [15:46]
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt [16:12]
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes. [16:12]
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P87lX/?raw=true [16:12]
candi_lustt: deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TZkq1/?raw=true [16:12]
ben_vulpes: (+ 1 1) [16:12]
candi_lustt: 2 [16:12]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i was thinking she gets upt in half hour intervals [16:14]
mircea_popescu: no good ? [16:14]
ben_vulpes: your call really [16:16]
ben_vulpes: anyone with eval permissions could register the nick, so may as well do it yourself. [16:16]
mircea_popescu: sluts gonna slut. [16:16]
mircea_popescu: fixed footnote. lisp dun mix well with the footnote system [16:17]
ben_vulpes: you're telling me [16:18]
asciilifeform: iirc i recently tried to mix something entirely else with it, and also got barf [16:18]
asciilifeform: it was... less-than sign ? [16:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform comments don't allow < semantically because it's the start of a html tag articles have problems parsingi because it's footnote convention [16:19]
asciilifeform: aah [16:21]
mircea_popescu: could set the footnote to arbitrary anything, but meh. and i see no good way out of the comment thing, because it ~is~ stuck parsing the comment. [16:22]
asciilifeform: mp-wp supports footnotes ~in comments~ ?! [16:22]
mircea_popescu: nah. [16:32]
mircea_popescu: though it prolly should huh. [16:32]
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo what the hell does one use to get gap-sealing foam off skin ? my hands look like 'advance leprousy' after two dozen washes with 4+ solvents.. [16:32]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [16:32]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha [16:33]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Has it cured yet? [16:36]
asciilifeform: of course! [16:36]
BingoBoingo: And why weren't you using nitrile gloves?! [16:36]
asciilifeform: and with liberal admixture of dirt and insects [16:36]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: didn't feel like climbing down from ladder to get'em. [16:37]
BingoBoingo: Well, sandpaper works [16:37]
BingoBoingo: acetone sometimes works on hard surfaces... [16:38]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: yeah, got most of it off with wet sand, still remains the conformal crud. [16:38]
asciilifeform: acetone failed. [16:38]
BingoBoingo: Aha, you've got a rather solid cure then [16:38]
asciilifeform: very solid, a++++ [16:38]
BingoBoingo: Well pretty much limited to mechanical removal nao [16:38]
BingoBoingo: Wait 24 hours [16:39]
BingoBoingo: then try lava soap [16:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just wait. your skin exfoliates naturally, they will come off. [16:40]
mircea_popescu: WAY better than giving yourself contact dermatitis. [16:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well noshit. is what i normally do. [16:40]
mircea_popescu: there is ~no good chem solution for your problem as it is. [16:40]
asciilifeform: q was about 'exists faster method?' [16:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am currently satisfied that this is so. [16:40]
mircea_popescu: carbon sulfide, which is carcinogenic. [16:41]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and funnily enough, first thing i did was (knockoff) lava soap. [16:41]
asciilifeform: i keep it in the work room. [16:41]
BingoBoingo: Anyways pumice and time [16:41]
asciilifeform: (there is no running water there and so it is the only wash..) [16:41]
candi_lustt: The variable is is unbound. [16:41]
asciilifeform: lol! how did ^ happen [16:41]
BingoBoingo: if still tacky you can cover foamskin with powder [16:41]
asciilifeform: parentheses ?? [16:41]
asciilifeform: ( ) [16:41]
candi_lustt: nil [16:41]
asciilifeform: lol [16:41]
mircea_popescu: aw fuck [16:41]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can it only retort if its name is on the line ? otherwise this will become problematic [16:42]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it needs to be fed your brain [16:43]
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt [16:43]
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes. [16:43]
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kQeDo/?raw=true [16:43]
candi_lustt: deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3IAka/?raw=true [16:43]
ben_vulpes: ^^ [16:43]
ben_vulpes: if you want a default that'll persist over reboots so she does at least something, i can jam that in there [16:43]
mircea_popescu: candi_lustt eat http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jO4Hu/?raw=true [16:44]
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PSAht/?raw=true [16:44]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i don't want her to do anything specifically, but she also can't answer to a single-open-parens control sequence [16:44]
mircea_popescu: i guess can have !( for it and you wipe ! ? [16:44]
ben_vulpes: foo(+ 1) [16:45]
ben_vulpes: can't the lords be trusted to shut her up when they're done playing? [16:45]
mircea_popescu: (+ 1 "no good") [16:45]
candi_lustt: The value "no good" is not of type number [16:45]
asciilifeform: why not have the thing answer to its own name strictly [16:46]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes iffy, too promisetronic will cause a bunch of hurt fingers. [16:46]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [16:46]
asciilifeform: then no need to switch it on/off, other than for maintenance [16:46]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the idea is for this to be a toy-level learn-lisp item can't add a "AND IF YOU DO ARCANE THING YOU DIE" coda. [16:46]
ben_vulpes: hehk [16:46]
ben_vulpes: !( , yes? [16:48]
ben_vulpes: if we wanted to be cute it could be ,( [16:49]
mircea_popescu: sure. [16:49]
mircea_popescu: nah, stick to ! [16:49]
ben_vulpes: k [16:49]
phf: asciilifeform: there are two incompatible eating methods, "eat" function and the ^( mode. i added the latter for my own convenience, because number of times i want to type a sexp is way higher than a literate string that opens with paren. obviously doesn't scale to a channel full of people, who have much less need for a repl bot [16:49]
asciilifeform: phf et al : i still don't get why not simply candi_lustt (+ 2 2) [16:50]
candi_lustt: asciilifeform: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BwzNj/?raw=true [16:50]
asciilifeform: lel [16:50]
mircea_popescu: phf if usage goes wai up we'll figure something out. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: so far mostly trying to tease out practical utility. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: both wanting a clean channel and wanting a repl bot are legitimate wants, neither necessarily has to yield to the other, we see how it goeth. [16:51]
phf: asciilifeform: just look at the chainstate log. that's how it was. but on one hand it became impractical to prefix every time. and the other reason is that c*ndi_lustt is not a repl bot by original design. "BRAIN" function supposed to take arbitrary text, and process it. in order to actually get to repl you have to use "c*ndi_lustt eat <url>" [16:52]
mircea_popescu: aha. [16:53]
ben_vulpes: !(princ "done") [16:53]
candi_lustt: "done" [16:53]
asciilifeform: !ii) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) [16:53]
mircea_popescu: (+ 2 2) [16:54]
asciilifeform: !((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) [16:54]
candi_lustt: iii) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))) [16:54]
mircea_popescu: !(+ 2 2) [16:54]
candi_lustt: 4 [16:54]
mircea_popescu: ! (+ 2 2) [16:54]
mircea_popescu: iv [16:54]
mircea_popescu: call it good. [16:54]
ben_vulpes: pls no more fuzzing [16:54]
mircea_popescu: lol poor vulpes. [16:54]
mircea_popescu: didja have fun ? [16:55]
phf: !(loop for i from 1 to 1000 collect i) [16:55]
candi_lustt: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 ...) [16:55]
ben_vulpes: the fun parts were fun, i learned rather a lot, i have a deeper hate of irc than i did a week ago... [16:55]
mircea_popescu: phf if you feel like it, you can do a weekly lisp class by appointment, look in the log when there's usually holes and intersect with your schedule and there you go. [16:56]
mircea_popescu: "weds 14:00 to 16:00, phf's lisp class". [16:56]
ben_vulpes: you only need a phf to teach noobs if the noob is you [16:56]
mircea_popescu: heh. [16:56]
mircea_popescu: you laugh ben_vulpes , but consider that a 15yo mp, much more imperious, much less sexually and otherwise pacified, had to go to school. PUBLIC school. [16:57]
asciilifeform: didn't mircea_popescu only show up for exam day or the like [16:58]
mircea_popescu: i showed up for ~40% of classes. which was about the most either me or the system could carry. [16:58]
phf: that's not a bad idea [16:58]
mircea_popescu: but the teachers were still petrified. [16:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho at some point we oughta pick up again the 'big city' thread, because the engineering tradeoffs of, e.g., gc, (esp. on hardware that does 0 to help) are very real. [17:00]
mircea_popescu: go right ahead. [17:00]
asciilifeform: it isn't even a subj particular to lisp. [17:01]
mircea_popescu: certainly not. [17:01]
asciilifeform: imho best thread re same was the 'unix vs msdos' one [17:01]
asciilifeform: where, yes you can run >1 proggy on 1 box, but there are very real costs. [17:02]
asciilifeform: they dun get to talk to the iron directly, etc. [17:02]
mircea_popescu: how's this relate to imperial vs republican big city ? [17:02]
asciilifeform: well that's what i'd like to study from mircea_popescu . [17:02]
asciilifeform: because 'republican city' is not a subj i am deeply familiar with. [17:03]
asciilifeform: i only know 2 types of city -- today's, and stereotypical-medieval [17:03]
asciilifeform: in the latter, you dump shit out of window, and rivers of piss fill the streets [17:03]
mircea_popescu: it's not clear to me that any engineering issues are in fact involved. all i see are purely psychogenic issues improperly welded to the foregoing. you don't need nor can have any meaningful implementation of "public servicves", not ever. getting oneself to believe the contrary is a strange exercise in contorsionism [17:04]
asciilifeform: what's the sewer then [17:04]
asciilifeform: or the water. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: there are known from history many numerous models of cities. [17:04]
asciilifeform: will tell me that rome's aqueduct was not 'public service' ? is 'public service' only idiot traffic cop ? [17:04]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when i had you define "public good" you said "endlessly abundant item". this is nonsense, nothing is endlessly abundant. [17:04]
asciilifeform: when'd i say 'endless' [17:05]
asciilifeform: said 'ad libitum', i.e. not individually+transactionally dispensed [17:05]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'available ad libitum to those within the walls' << this means there's an infinite supply. [17:05]
asciilifeform: only if you have a miniature black hole, with endless appetite, in your city. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: this is a fiction, which may be convenient for personal reasons. but nothing is like this. note above : we have an infinity of chatlines, literally, avaailable each day. nevertheless, the bot is vaguely constrained. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: "if it looks like it's running out, we'll do something about it." [17:06]
asciilifeform: we do not however have an infinite of brain cycles. hence banishments of low snr folk etc [17:06]
mircea_popescu: ie, not qs. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: yes. nothing can be qs, not in this world, which is why your definition of "public good" is not a definition. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: (qs i will remind stands for quantum sufficit, or else satiem. satiem is the word that gave sated. the presumption here, etymologically-amusing as it is, is that something can be qs only if there's no "black hole" of appetite. mmkay.) [17:07]
mircea_popescu: this is also how banking works, "you can have all the money you don't need you could wish -- but don't ask for money when you need it!" [17:08]
asciilifeform: qs is exactly what i was thinking! ty mircea_popescu [17:08]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform used to be written on medicine bottles. back before medicine became rationalized. [17:08]
asciilifeform: and yes it is a somewhat promisetronic thing. no need even to go as far as bank. go an' see what happens if you want 1000 amps from your mains connection. [17:08]
asciilifeform: on short notice. [17:08]
mircea_popescu: ok so then. stop using strings for concepts. what do you mean by "public good" ? [17:09]
asciilifeform: perhaps: item that is impractical to withhold from freeloaders, but nevertheless must be paid for. [17:10]
mircea_popescu: ie, bullets ? [17:11]
asciilifeform: in the sense of 'bullets will fly but whether you paid determines the direction' ? [17:11]
asciilifeform: not quite what i had in mind, no. [17:11]
mircea_popescu: no, in the sense it's impractical to not shoot them, but still the bullet is produced. [17:11]
asciilifeform: this is somewhat arcane and my gas mask is clogged, can haz expanded ver plz. [17:12]
* mircea_popescu looks at kresty prison overhead pic, notices that building set on its right is painted in international color of courthouse. mmkay. [17:12]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was just observing shooting is a public good by your definition. not practical to keep it from freeloaders, still has a cost. [17:13]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: shooting thieves in the street, or rabid weasels, etc. definitely 'public good' -- they remain dead for all the misers who hadn't paid for exterminator service aha [17:14]
mircea_popescu: i was thinking more in the lines of, shooting obama. puts him out of his misery of pretending like he's a person. [17:14]
mircea_popescu: going to all that trouble etc. [17:14]
asciilifeform: any rabid weasel works equally well for this one. [17:14]
asciilifeform: large, small. [17:14]
mircea_popescu: yes, except the rabid weasel does not seem to WANT this public good. [17:15]
asciilifeform: noshit. [17:15]
asciilifeform: if shit could talk, it probably would not want to be flushed either. [17:15]
mircea_popescu: which is somewhat counterintuitive. so i was examining if you're going to stick with the definition or redefine in face of it. [17:15]
asciilifeform: it doesn't strike me as counterintuitive at all, is actually the exact thing i was thinking of. [17:15]
asciilifeform: clean street, or dead politicians, etc. remain 'working' for the nonpaying folx. [17:16]
mircea_popescu: yes, but what does it mean "it's not practical to withhold" ? [17:16]
asciilifeform: well you can't , afaik, set up world where the payers get to live obummer-free but the cheapskates get another 8 yrs of him. [17:16]
mircea_popescu: (i beg forgiveness if i just snap yoru words to classical discourse on the topic, it's for the greater good) [17:16]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why not ? split up. [17:16]
asciilifeform: if you can properly and surgically cut it, and sell piecemeal, then it is not 'public good' but normal workaday commercial good. [17:17]
* mircea_popescu would pay to see in practice the equivalent of salic electoral law, considering how lulzily salic inheritance worked irl. enough of this angevin bs. you vote in electiosn, then each side gets half the country. and so going each 4 years. [17:17]
mircea_popescu: soon enough, 1024 countries of manageable size. [17:17]
asciilifeform: sorta like how monkey troopy divvy up the jungle, neh [17:18]
asciilifeform: iirc africa presently works like this. [17:18]
mircea_popescu: more or less yea [17:18]
asciilifeform: and sooner or later the other africa also will. [17:18]
asciilifeform: just -- not yet. [17:18]
mircea_popescu: in the absence of a forum, it's the only workable way. [17:18]
mircea_popescu: which brings the problem back home : most of the problems you discuss have a huge language externality. [17:18]
asciilifeform: forum! another publicgood. [17:19]
mircea_popescu: take fucking. the women are pregnant for all, irrespective how many fuck them. [17:19]
mircea_popescu: yet somehow THIS particular public good is never too problematic [17:19]
asciilifeform: sunlight is ~the~ good but also not problematic, because it dun give a fuck whether anyone asked for it or not, and there is no credit card slot to pay into for it. [17:19]
asciilifeform: just as you also do not have to pay for arithmetic to work. [17:20]
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact, whether mp alone is repsonsible for half us live births this year, like it works in africa / oceania or not -- live births there will be. [17:20]
asciilifeform: so these are not 'public goods' as contemplated here. [17:20]
mircea_popescu: well... you will need a new definition then [17:20]
asciilifeform: why? [17:20]
asciilifeform: i did mention 'but still has to be paid for' [17:20]
mircea_popescu: what do you mean why. because you want to exclude items that match it. [17:20]
mircea_popescu: fucking is paid for. [17:21]
mircea_popescu: and depends how you define "paid for", sun may also be. [17:21]
asciilifeform: if it will happen just the same if not paid for , then does not match condition 'must be paid for' [17:21]
mircea_popescu: the price for its light is a definite limit in time it will eventually grow hot. [17:21]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems dubious. [17:21]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-13#1602276 << lol. they're FACTORIAL not exponential. plox to be serious here, no exp can match this. [17:26]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-13 20:22 ben_vulpes: > exciting [17:26]
mircea_popescu: as good a statement as any re why moore law can't ever produce ai. [17:26]
asciilifeform: ^ doesn't seem like a notion in particularly dire need of disproof tho. just as 'why bricks cannot birth rats' [17:27]
mircea_popescu: yes. but i think it's very informative to examine it from angles. [17:27]
asciilifeform: ( re 'public good', the removal of the 'great stink' from 1850s london, by the construction of the -- very costly -- sewer system, finest at the time in the world, is imho instructive. they DID first try every possible method of 'eliminate the problem strictly for mircea_popescu !' -- parliament soaked curtains in lime, folx walked around with cloth masks, etc. but eventually queen barfed when sailing in pleasure boat, and that was t [17:31]
asciilifeform: he limit, apparently ) [17:31]
mircea_popescu: london sewer was not by any means first in world but how do you distinguish between the l1 of london building sewer and ben_vulpes making me slut bot ? [17:31]
asciilifeform: def. not first! [17:32]
asciilifeform: rome -- 1st. [17:32]
mircea_popescu: "why didnt they do it sooner!" "cuz they didn't feel like it!" "but why did they do it at all!" "cuz they felt like it!" [17:32]
asciilifeform: and iirc rome got one for ~same reason. [17:32]
mircea_popescu: ah finest. i read first soz. [17:32]
ben_vulpes: wyrdmantis: that's three reconnects today, stoppit [18:01]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/rogue-one#comment-144 << sadly i have nfi who that is. [18:16]
ben_vulpes: star wars arcana [18:19]
* asciilifeform somehow happened upon http://www.romanianwriters.ro/book.php?id=14 [18:19]
asciilifeform: 'In one queue (assembled by the well known false alarm of “the meat lorry is coming,” which used to bring people out from all over the place, causing them scurry about like ants), my seventy‑five year‑old grandfather stood for twelve hours : on the street corner from six in the morning until six in the evening. When he got home, with an empty bag (that day, the lorry had not turned up), he started to feel unwell, leaned on th [18:20]
asciilifeform: e bed and collapsed. This former interbellic country gentleman – vineyard owner and horse breeder in the foothills of the Leaota Mountain, denounced by a friend, arrested and beaten by the Securitate in the time of Dej because he had hidden some “cockerels” – had now exhausted all his energy for the sake of a bit of meat on the bone. Later, struck down with sclerosis and bedridden with semi‑paralysis, he was to come round o [18:20]
asciilifeform: nce every few days, to ask the family he had once provided for : “Bread ? Is there bread ?”' [18:20]
asciilifeform: elsewhere, http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7294 << shitlang lulz ( via jurov ) [18:40]
asciilifeform: from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r [18:41]
asciilifeform: eal work (the servo engine), and meets the necessary criteria of being a strongly-typed, non-GC’d, safe, bit-level language that supports generic programming.' [18:41]
* mircea_popescu tried to watch "her", which supposedly is a movie. it is not. it's a fucking "movie 2.0". it's like these contemptible imbeciles agreed everything in cinema must have rounded corners now. the same inept muzak, a dude on a cello or a piano or a single instrument going SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE. this is now music. [19:07]
mircea_popescu: the same fucking BEIGE. everything gotta be beige, that's how you know it's the future. the same inept fucking "actors", the same literotica-level scripts, the same blergh. [19:08]
mircea_popescu: fucking drop dead already, bollywood's better by now. [19:08]
asciilifeform: watching glue dry is better nao. [19:09]
mircea_popescu: a decade ago this shit used to be a bad joke at best. now it's all the maga that's left. [19:09]
mircea_popescu: re the soros book : it's not terrible, there's a certain political bent to it but i expect you're immune. like how human doesn't catch most rat viral strains. [19:10]
asciilifeform: actually that was my primary interest in linked piece. ~which strain!~ [19:11]
mircea_popescu: this is high arcana. [19:11]
asciilifeform: 'soros' half-gives it away [19:12]
asciilifeform: but i'd like to know how. [19:12]
mircea_popescu: not exactly there's a particular vein of competent orc being developed here. [19:12]
mircea_popescu: roughly speaking the gambit would be described as "knowledge is evil in that it bestows power, only through neutering the power element may it be rendered pure", something after this fashion. [19:13]
asciilifeform: nao i'm really curious. how, for instance, does one make, e.g., an arithmetic, with 'neutered power element' but still in some sense 'knowledge' ? [19:14]
mircea_popescu: well, it's complicated. and obviously nonsensical on the face of it, which is why it's being approached very gingerly. and also why the poster child of the whole movement, its sam altman if you will, is this ex physicist turned "philosopher". [19:16]
mircea_popescu: turned being the operative word. [19:16]
mircea_popescu: !#s patapievici [19:16]
a111: 1 result for "patapievici", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=patapievici [19:16]
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure i mentioned him before. [19:16]
asciilifeform: aha, the voice synth thread [19:18]
mircea_popescu: right, for sure possibly before. [19:18]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's impossible to hide the albright from any of this. but then again they don't specifically aim to hide it from us, secure in the knowledge that the orcs it's addresses to entirely lack the receptors in the first place. which is true. [19:19]
asciilifeform: it has ~same flavour as various material intended for ru orc export in '90s and now, yes [19:20]
mircea_popescu: russian stuff was somewhat finer. [19:20]
asciilifeform: naaaah [19:20]
mircea_popescu: or maybe just i don't read it so well. [19:20]
asciilifeform: it was ~all 'gulag gulag gulag and oh hey didjaknow gulag?' [19:20]
asciilifeform: 'we, people of mcdonalds, blue jeans, and 'terminator', shall teach you, gulag monkeys, how to live' [19:21]
mircea_popescu: that's a different thing. [19:22]
mircea_popescu: i find it quite amusing that esr tried to do ~exactly what i just did, except with much more rudimentary tools and with much less interesting results. idiots living among idiots ALSO has a cost eh. [19:23]
asciilifeform: it is interesting, more so they made it for ~themselves~ than even for the orcs. you go to a 'hip' washington b00kstore, and 'russia' section, 100% gulag, with a few ivan iv. [19:23]
asciilifeform: and maybe 1 or 2 about peter and how he liked to chop heads. [19:23]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes moreover i'm talking about a very specific "intellectual" thing. not in any sense intended for mass consumption. intended for perenity. [19:23]
asciilifeform: oh, yes, not at all for 'masss', for mass -- 'terminator', 'star wars'. [19:24]
mircea_popescu: afaik it spawned actually straight out of the whole "hide caches of $stuff in yurp" programme. [19:25]
asciilifeform: (incidentally in ru net it is not uncommon to meet with derisive reference to american soldier, 'jedi') [19:25]
asciilifeform: gladio?! [19:25]
mircea_popescu: same resources, same offices even in places. same people, mostly. [19:25]
asciilifeform: lol! [19:25]
asciilifeform: and yes, brzezinski et al [19:25]
mircea_popescu: intelligladio. [19:25]
mircea_popescu: there's intelligentsia and intelliglantsia. both equally bankrupt pseudointellectual endeavours, although on superficial examination "opposite". therefore, lettuce teach the controversy! [19:26]
mircea_popescu: that right there is the whole shebang in one reference-ladden sentence. [19:26]
mircea_popescu: and fwiw my reading of orlov is very much in this vein, which is how he keeps evaluating to below 0 in my hands. perhaps counterintuitively for more neutral readers. [19:27]
asciilifeform: i'm considerably more immediately allergic to his strange cocktail of 'noble savage' luddism, enviro-whinerism [19:28]
mircea_popescu: i don't care about stupidity per se organised stupidity of any kind however is a different matter. [19:28]
asciilifeform: ah but this type is quite certainly organized. [19:29]
asciilifeform: (the organized-deindustrialization thread) [19:29]
mircea_popescu: we might mean different things by organised. i don't mean what is meant by "systematizing" in eg "systematizing delusion" [19:29]
mircea_popescu: at issue isn't whether they're systematic or systemic but whether they're projective. [19:30]
asciilifeform: he devotes, for instance, entire chapter to defending 'fission power is -ev' by... guess... counting 'regulatory cost' as a constant! as if it were fact of nature [19:31]
mircea_popescu: heh [19:31]
mircea_popescu: what's with all the idiots counting "regulatory cost" as a thing in the first place ? [19:32]
asciilifeform: and, somehow half-admitting that this is crock of shit, proceeds to factor in 1,001-year waste storage cost as constant! also! as if killing bureaucrats has to be expensive (use barges with drowning-hatches, say) and for fuck's sake breeder reactor. [19:32]
asciilifeform: but he carries on in this project to convince audience, by lying through omission, that no such thing was ever invented [19:32]
mircea_popescu: usg came up with idea of hiding the tax burden under spurious headings, dorks imported it somehow. then ten years later "obamacare is not a tax". sa mori tu ? [19:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform random nonsense aside, i also don't believe fusion is +ev in a practical sense. obviously if you can be arsed to gather together enough hydrogen you get your own star for free. but that's about it. [19:33]
asciilifeform: folx from whom 'the sense of being stolen from was stolen', develop these peculiar leprosies [19:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no +ev controlled fusion had ever been discovered, or even proposed on any kind of logical foundation, afaik. [19:34]
mircea_popescu: right. [19:34]
asciilifeform: fission, however, is easily 10,001 yrs +ev if you kill the orlovs and the soroses. [19:34]
mircea_popescu: wait, he was discussing... fission ?! [19:35]
asciilifeform: aha! [19:35]
mircea_popescu: o ffs. [19:35]
mircea_popescu: there is ~no source of energy available in any sense outside of that. [19:35]
mircea_popescu: either sunbathe or nuclear reactor. end of story. [19:35]
asciilifeform: orlov is a (sometimes entertaining) stooge, but not of moscow. of 'agenda 21' or whatever it is called now. [19:36]
asciilifeform: turner's thing. [19:36]
mircea_popescu: the cnn-made alt-"putin" that the us invaded itself by ? [19:36]
asciilifeform: the nyt-made alt-stalin. but approx., yes. [19:37]
asciilifeform: i will omit the 'genetically modified evils' chapter, to preserve appetites [19:38]
mircea_popescu: it's funny how each little churchlet of the "reason&science" persuasion has a very carefully not named devil or two.\ [19:38]
asciilifeform: (it contained the familiar ~deliberate~, not at all a result of intellectual sloppiness, conflation, of 'genetically modified' and 'monsanto') [19:39]
mircea_popescu: "evil ai" or "genetically modified" or you know, something. [19:39]
asciilifeform: aha. cast out them devils. but also don't forget to cast out the pennies in yer pockets, your reactors, diesel engines, and give'em all to $huckster. [19:39]
asciilifeform: because mother gaia cries. [19:40]
mircea_popescu: i think i might have heard this play before. [19:40]
asciilifeform: fwiw i think he enjoys playing the circle of idiots he 'works' in meatspace. (the funkenstein_ types). [19:41]
mircea_popescu: what type is that ? [19:42]
asciilifeform: he devotes page+ to how important it is that people carry fleas again. and how important to bring back shamanic medicines 'in time for inevitable disappearance of pharma industry'. i'd quite like to begin with orlov, and his wife, son [19:42]
mircea_popescu: wtf fleas ? what ? [19:42]
asciilifeform: yes, fleas. [19:42]
mircea_popescu: because why, the only pick-up line he knows comes from dunne ? [19:42]
asciilifeform: something 'wasted potential for carrying parasite load' something [19:43]
asciilifeform: and who knows, even that, possible. [19:43]
mircea_popescu: "how little that which thoud deniest me is!" [19:43]
asciilifeform: 'and larger fleas, to go on !' [19:43]
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. wasted potential to what ? [19:43]
asciilifeform: iirc it was re 'potential' to exist in crowded, low-tech hovels without complaint, or the like [19:44]
asciilifeform: 'potential' to 'use fewer resources' [19:44]
mircea_popescu: there is no crowded low tech. [19:44]
asciilifeform: why not then put them in mass grave, even fewer resources. [19:44]
asciilifeform: ah i oughta add that he was praising the traditional ru peasant hut. crowded lowtech. [19:44]
mircea_popescu: such bizarro notions. really, because dork can't think it then follows that mp can't be right and nature will go out of its way to accomodate ? [19:45]
mircea_popescu: density is a function of tech and strictly that. [19:45]
asciilifeform: sit 'round smoky fire all winter long in windowless hell, you, mother-in-law, and the livestock. [19:45]
mircea_popescu: which is this ru crowded low tech thing ? [19:45]
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall early modern ru having one of the lowest capita per area of all the world. [19:45]
asciilifeform: who the fuck cares 'per area' of forest [19:46]
mircea_popescu: um. [19:46]
asciilifeform: we're talking bodies-per-square-metre-of-indoors. [19:46]
mircea_popescu: why did you get the idea ru peasant spent time "indoors" ? [19:46]
asciilifeform: because there is this thing called winter. [19:46]
mircea_popescu: even so. [19:46]
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but it was always ~that~ part that turned my stomach, reading about olden timez. [19:47]
asciilifeform: winter with the goats. [19:47]
mod6: evenin' [19:47]
mircea_popescu: heya mod6 [19:47]
asciilifeform: evenin,mod6! [19:47]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think your reading there maps more to feeling than to history. [19:47]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no contest. 1st rule of history vs feeling, is that the folx who inhabited 'history', largely didn't give half a fuck [19:48]
asciilifeform: which is why we're here. [19:48]
mircea_popescu: myeah [19:48]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "weds 14:00 to 16:00, phf's lisp class". << this would be pretty cool actually. i'd attend if I could get the timing right... [19:49]
mircea_popescu: i figure if he sticks to it people will slowly migrate their schedules. [19:49]
mod6: Yah, probably so. [19:49]
asciilifeform: 1400 which time belt..? [19:50]
mod6: While implementing automated tests for the wot-variant changes for V (99994) last night, I ran into an issue. [19:50]
mircea_popescu: i picked a random number, not to be taken seriously [19:50]
mod6: I've created some new tests and all of which have been looking good. But then I noticed what seems like a problem on the last, new test, to implement. In fact, it was the last step of the last new test. [19:51]
mircea_popescu: specifix ? [19:52]
mod6: So basically, the deal is, that when using TRB, I have one user in my wot, say "mod6", and I drop out a vpatch from the flow, say "asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch" by moving it's seal to "asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch.mod6.sig.foobar", then I expected a few things to happen. [19:53]
mod6: Referring to this DAG: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html [19:54]
mircea_popescu: ok [19:54]
mod6: I expected "asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch""asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch", and "asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud.vpatch" to be removed from the flow. [19:54]
mircea_popescu: because they depend on the foregoing [19:54]
mod6: Yeah. [19:54]
mod6: Now, my flow, as currently coded in V (99994) actually does exactly what I expected above. ^ [19:55]
mircea_popescu: cool [19:55]
mod6: However, when I try to press, I realize that this is actually incorrect, or I ~think~ it is incorrect. [19:55]
mircea_popescu: whyssat [19:56]
mod6: You see, when I've tested this in a single edge graph system -- a simple test vpatch set, this problem doesn't occur. a->b->c->d->e, remove 'c', and you just have a->b -- my current implemntation does this fine. [19:56]
mircea_popescu: aha [19:57]
mod6: So, the problem. [19:57]
mod6: This vpatch can not press correctly: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches/asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch [19:57]
mod6: Even though the flow is correct, it depends on changes that are no longer there for files such as init.cpp... [19:57]
mircea_popescu: uh [19:58]
mod6: So basically what I'm seeing is that, once I discover my proper decendants, I also need to reverse check the graph for ~existing~ antecedents to ensure that a proper press can happen. [19:59]
mircea_popescu: on trying to check out phf 's nice graph i discover btcbase.org/patches redirects, to btcbase.org/patches/nil [19:59]
mircea_popescu: what was teh link ? [19:59]
mod6: His graph doesn't show all of the edges, and as this correctly highlights, I believe to be less than perfect. [19:59]
mircea_popescu: hm [20:00]
mod6: Since this is a multi-edge edge case (for lack of a better way to put it), this happens. [20:00]
mod6: There is an edge betwee"bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch" and "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" which causes my V to think that "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" still belongs in the flow. [20:01]
mircea_popescu: mod6 is your presser looking for "one" vs "all" antecedents ? [20:01]
mod6: And for that one edge, it does make sense, but since that vpatch changes more than one file, this causes a problem when the files being changed do not aligh. [20:01]
mod6: *align [20:02]
mod6: So my code finds all the decendants, then topographically sorts them. Then press based on the flow. [20:02]
mod6: So I'm thinking that I need to add an additional check to ensure that every vpatch has a corresponding, existing, antecedent in the current flow. [20:03]
mircea_popescu: theoretically the patch you indicate only depends on zap_showmyip [20:03]
mircea_popescu: and if that's not pressed (as you removed its seal), then this shouldn't either. [20:03]
mod6: ah, since there are more than one graph edge, it must be clobbered as well, "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch", I mean. [20:04]
mod6: (and anything else that depends on init.cpp downstream from that as well) [20:04]
mircea_popescu: well its antecedent is clearly "asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud.vpatch" [20:04]
mod6: and "net.cpp" [20:04]
mircea_popescu: if that's removed from the flow, how could it still press [20:04]
mod6: so technically, yeah, "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" has four antecedents. [20:05]
mod6: and removal of one doesn't, in my current implementation, ensure it's removal, as there are three other antecedents for this. [20:06]
mircea_popescu: yeah but you should do "all" rather than "any" [20:06]
mod6: so I propose that I need to ensure of its removal by reverse checking every decendants antecedents. [20:06]
mircea_popescu: a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present not if ANY of its antecedents are present [20:07]
mod6: aha, got it. [20:07]
mod6: this makes sense in theory, and mechanically because otherwise, unable to press. [20:08]
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, me reads " Eric, a year ago I came to similar conclusions. Watching the chaos on the mailing lists and IRC channel,", proceeds to join #rust, is shocked by the sound of utter silence. maybe the guy meant join/part spam, who knows. nice going anyway. [20:08]
mod6: Anyway, wanted to spend a few minutes elaborating on my latest battles I'm making progress, but still need some time to get it straightend out. [20:09]
mircea_popescu: which are the 4 antecedents for my curiosity ? [20:09]
mod6: Once I have that part correct, will update and continue wrapping up the automated tests. Then further testing will begin, etc. [20:09]
mod6: one sec. [20:10]
mod6: bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch, asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatchasciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud.vpatchgenesis.vpatch [20:12]
mod6: whoops, missed a space & comma above [20:12]
mircea_popescu: i don't get how you built this list, fwiw. [20:12]
mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ZcTCa/?raw=true [20:12]
mircea_popescu: either it depends on the whole tree up to it, ie genesis, asciilifeform.1, rm_rf, asciilifeform.2, asciilifeform.4, dnsseed_snip, zap_hardcoded [20:13]
mircea_popescu: or else just on the last one. [20:13]
mircea_popescu: how did you end up with 4 ?! [20:13]
mircea_popescu: and i thought win-32 is actually a codependency for ver_now_5_4 alongside thermonyukyoolar. [20:13]
mod6: so those four, are vpatches that touch the same files that "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" touches. [20:14]
mircea_popescu: well yes but this isn't necessarily a criterion is it ? [20:14]
mod6: i don't know how the mechanical hash matching would work otherwise. [20:14]
mircea_popescu: oh i see what you did! [20:14]
mircea_popescu: ok so you pruned the theoretical tree for only things that touch same file. ok, makes sense in my head now [20:15]
mod6: Ok :] [20:15]
mircea_popescu: yeh yeh right you are. [20:15]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha steve klabnik. roflmao where the fuck do they dredge up all the amir taakis [20:17]
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : blog.rust-lang.org went away. there is a https://archive.is/pwdGh however. [20:18]
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for talking me through it though. Even though for some out there, this might be painfully obvious stuff, but it's not, at least for me. So it's worth going over in detail. [20:19]
mircea_popescu: hey, it's not for me either, so the sentiment is mutual. [20:19]
mod6: I'll work on getting axiom into place in the code, will update further if I hit another issue or need further discussion/direction: [20:20]
mod6: asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch [20:20]
mod6: bah [20:20]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present not if ANY of its antecedents are present << this. [20:20]
mod6: o7 [20:21]
mircea_popescu: aha [20:21]
mircea_popescu: aqnyway, the "hive mind" is fucking comedic already. FIVE YEARS with the subverted python, got them nowhere. close to five years pushing rust, nothing to show for it. systemd is still mostly a joke, and the hatred is growing exponentially while the pustule is growing logarithmic at that. meanwhile the republic cracked open the heartbleed in quite the painful fashion, no matter how much effort went into "rehappening" it. not t [20:28]
mircea_popescu: o mention ancient strongholds of usgism such as kock-gpg, tor or (again) openssl are being butchered left and right. the attempted anti-bitcoins failed to catch on. [20:28]
mircea_popescu: situation is fucking dire and the winter is coming, in the sense of it being late november, there's frosts at night. [20:28]
mircea_popescu: MAKE LIBERTARD PROGRE GREAT AGAIN!!11 [20:29]
mod6: haha [20:29]
mircea_popescu: yeah, really. mozilla hanging on to dear life, mostly through its actual workspace having been cannibalized by google at great expense, because holy shit people are going to give up "web" altogether and nobody cares about the tablets in the long run. [20:30]
mircea_popescu: all the bad hbo productions cranking up to 11 a theoretical future in which everything is "mobile" and "intelligent" by default ain't gonna make the fad not be a fad. [20:31]
asciilifeform: mod6: afaik the 'edge case' here behaves 100% correctly in my vtron. [20:37]
asciilifeform: you gotta check the antecedents recursively, as i did. [20:37]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602666 << YES!! [20:38]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-14 01:07 mircea_popescu: a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present not if ANY of its antecedents are present [20:38]
mod6: aha. [20:38]
mod6: sounds good alf. [20:38]
mircea_popescu: recursion sounds like perfectly workable aproach yes [20:39]
mod6: The good news is, it sounds like we're all aligned on this. [20:39]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602699 << joke, joke, but go an' download a nonbastardized cd-installable linux. [20:40]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-14 01:28 mircea_popescu: aqnyway, the "hive mind" is fucking comedic already. FIVE YEARS with the subverted python, got them nowhere. close to five years pushing rust, nothing to show for it. systemd is still mostly a joke, and the hatred is growing exponentially while the pustule is growing logarithmic at that. meanwhile the republic cracked open the heartbleed in quite the painful fashion, no matter how much effort went into "rehappening" it. not t [20:40]
trinque: alpine linux is still pretty good [20:40]
asciilifeform: so from their pov 'it's our way or highway', 'systemd, winblows, crapple, or go write own device drivers' [20:40]
trinque: but there are only a few gems out there left [20:40]
trinque: alpine is musltronic even. [20:41]
asciilifeform: trinque: what's its package system like ? [20:41]
asciilifeform: can i install x11tronic emacs ? [20:41]
asciilifeform: ..without dbus ? [20:41]
trinque: nah, anyone wanting that level of control, straight to gentoo [20:41]
trinque: only way [20:41]
asciilifeform: trinque: even on gentoo, nontrivial. [20:41]
asciilifeform: but my q was in re 'does it properly ban the poetteringization' [20:42]
trinque: aha, upstream tightens the web of interdependencies by the day [20:42]
asciilifeform: a respectable linux will include a knife for mercilessly cutting through this 'web'. [20:42]
asciilifeform: gentoo at one point could have been described this way. [20:42]
asciilifeform: (today, only mine, and trinque's, and maybe 5 other d00dz have 'personal' gentoos that still behave this way. fueled with unicorn cunt juice.) [20:43]
asciilifeform: i soured almost totally on openbsd when i labouriously set up a box, with all of the proggies i rely on for daily use, and found that emacs COULD NOT be de-poetteringized without eschewing the ports system entirely [20:43]
whaack: mircea when you got a sec could you give me a Eulora account? [20:44]
asciilifeform: i.e. thing was less sanitary, by long shot, than the shoddiest gentoo. [20:44]
* asciilifeform bbl [20:44]
trinque: I have still on my disk a semi-working portage on openbsd [20:45]
trinque: but have a hard time justifying the effort to myself any more than other half-measures. [20:45]
trinque: started reading the python source for portage, barfed. [20:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why tge fuck would i DOWNLOAD it! wtf am i, new ? this is like going "go google something and see if you can find something besides wikipedia". dude... srsly, i'm googling things now ? let me try this, oh, let's google "mathematics" see what happens, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE [20:53]
mircea_popescu: ffs. [20:53]
mircea_popescu: there's no future for english speaking children. we knew this already. [20:53]
mircea_popescu: whaack oh didn't you have one already ? [20:55]
whaack: i asked for one a long time ago but i never got the game working and didn't save the dpaste message unfortunately [20:55]
mircea_popescu: ... [20:56]
mircea_popescu: whaack http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QIKmG/?raw=true [20:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is 'download', and there is 'distill from unicorn juice', and i suppose there is, in mircea_popescu's case, 3rd button on the dial, 'ask friend to do it'. but i do not know of a 4th button. [21:00]
whaack: ty [21:01]
mircea_popescu: how about "i have disks from before 2016 because I WAS NOT BORN YESTERDAY" [21:03]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for so long as you don't attempt install of ANYTHING not found on selfsame disks -- worx [21:04]
asciilifeform: in ~that~ sense, my copy of os/2 warp still worx. [21:05]
mircea_popescu: "for as long as you weren't born yesterday, not being born yesterday worx". [21:06]
mircea_popescu: wtf would i install ? "oh i wonder what these new things called ides are, how about i install one and try it out" [21:06]
asciilifeform: mno [21:06]
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is there i may not know about and wish to have ? list ? [21:06]
asciilifeform: eulora? [21:07]
mircea_popescu: eulora is very carefully engineered to work properly. [21:07]
mircea_popescu: and will work properli-er in future. [21:07]
asciilifeform: it'll build on my student-era bsd 4.7? [21:07]
* asciilifeform a bit skeptical [21:07]
trinque: guy said before 2016... [21:08]
mircea_popescu: this is what you work on, "student era bsd 4.7" ? [21:08]
asciilifeform: eh that's too easy and includes most of the extant crapola, trinque [21:08]
mircea_popescu: point is - either you're an adult or you aren't. if you're an adult you don't find out where your asshole goes from googling assholes. if you're not an adult there is no hope for you anyway, no matter what. [21:09]
mircea_popescu: there's nothing that'll turn taaki into a human being. [21:09]
mircea_popescu: so the point is essentially moot. yes, if anyone gave a shit "they'd form their whole worldview through watching cnn". the problem is that the people watching cnn aren't goingto ever form a worldview anyway, and the people who will ever have formed a worldview don't watch it. [21:10]
mircea_popescu: so it's a bit of a pointless victory of the imaginary kind. [21:10]
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit my actual complaint re openbsd -- if i want emacs but NOT dbus, i am reduced to, more or less, 'make own unix', rather than using openbsd as such. [21:10]
asciilifeform: and yes, ~adult~ knows how to do this [21:10]
asciilifeform: but life is short. [21:10]
trinque: not an entirely accurate picture of it [21:10]
trinque: it didn't take me longer than 5min to copy the openbsd emacs makefile and remove everything I didn't want [21:10]
trinque: the ports makefile system is pretty clear [21:11]
trinque: it does lack the "dbus is haram" across packages, which is certainly an omission. [21:11]
asciilifeform: 'surgery on makefile, remove what you do not want' is same as having NO ports tree! [21:11]
trinque: no, it's not [21:12]
trinque: no matter how many !!! [21:12]
asciilifeform: it means that i have to manually fiddle with the motherfucker every time. [21:12]
asciilifeform: trinque: elaborate plox [21:12]
trinque: so, socialist bureau of portage community is supposed to be there always? [21:12]
asciilifeform: trinque: i'd actually rather it all went away. [21:13]
asciilifeform: the pretense is annoying. [21:13]
* trinque knows asciilifeform would like to nuke it all [21:13]
trinque: point being it may not be unreasonable system tuning work to modify the build process of packages what openbsd has is quite close to having portage feature parity [21:14]
asciilifeform: just say, honestly, 'the year of our lord is motherfucking 1975 and there is no such thing as autoloading of proggies from network, what is this, science fiction' [21:14]
trinque: the thing lacking is people using the exact same "flavor" names (flavors being analogous to use flags) [21:14]
trinque: and then one could rather trivially modify the thing to blacklist flavors [21:14]
asciilifeform: this is one of those items that needs curator. [21:15]
asciilifeform: alternatively-- vtronic portage. [21:15]
trinque: certainly in the case of both portage and bsd ports, "I got my patch past one community organizer idiot" is no standard of merit [21:16]
asciilifeform: but ~somebody~ is stuck with the thankless chore of determining which package gotta ./configure with --no-herp, which -- --no-derp, etc [21:16]
trinque: aha, and though doomed to accrete fewer hairy workarounds, doomed still. [21:17]
asciilifeform: i will confess, at one point i contemplated a 'vtronic bsd', but i have difficulty mustering any further enthusiasm for keeping unix on life support [21:18]
asciilifeform: let it die. bury it. [21:18]
mircea_popescu: "autoloading" of proggies "from network" is basically javascript. [21:19]
mircea_popescu: go, autoload. [21:19]
mircea_popescu: autofucking of girlies "from grindr" is a) trap and b) herpes. [21:20]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, 'modern computing' folx are essentially characters from lem's 'futurological congress', thinking that they have all kinds of neato tech, e.g., robot servants, but the latter are just d00ds doped up to think they are robots, and those served -- doped up also, to think they own robots, etc. [21:21]
mircea_popescu: so then it is entirely unclear what your position is after all. [21:22]
mircea_popescu: beyond "i disagree with what mp just said because my tooth hurts and i agree with him" [21:22]
asciilifeform: aah but in order to agree, i would have to figure out what mircea_popescu's was! [21:23]
asciilifeform: other than 'hey if you're an adult and weren't born yesterday, Things Work' [21:23]
mircea_popescu: but at the risk of repeating myself, here it is again : esr, fabled luminary of the "blabla programming style" failed to get his thing done in a week. mp, fabled terrorist, managed to get his thing done in a week. [21:23]
mircea_popescu: and i'm not about to stand for any "it doesn't counts because". [21:24]
asciilifeform: what was the thing of esr? [21:24]
asciilifeform: i missed it [21:24]
mircea_popescu: so : if you're EVER GOING TO BE an adult, the idiocy outside doesn't matter. and if the idiocy outside matters, you weren't ever going to be an adult anyway. entirely disjunct sets [21:25]
mircea_popescu: and yes sucks for anyone born in 1990s, but so it goes. [21:25]
mircea_popescu: it sucked for anyone born in 1910 also. [21:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tried to try out rust. he gets no bots, has to make his own irc server, there's no phf etc. [21:25]
asciilifeform: i thought -- 1920 [21:26]
asciilifeform: (1920s folx -- straight into meatgrinder) [21:26]
mircea_popescu: well imagine those schmucks, born in 1910, starved duyring puberty, while orphaned by influenza, then spent their adult years at war, by the time they were 40 they had a cot of their own and enough fleas to satisfy their dog best friend, because woman was old and ugly already when they met. [21:27]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hm, interesting. though no one ought to be surprised to not find a phf & co. for $randomshitlang [21:27]
mircea_popescu: the fact that no one is surprised is an argument for what i was saying. [21:28]
mircea_popescu: yes, no one is surprised. of course not. [21:28]
mircea_popescu: so, yet again : either you know computers, today, in which case you don't need the "open source" usgtards or else you don't know computers, today, in which case YOU NEVER WILL. period. no escape, no buts, no nothing. you NEVER WILL. and consequently it fucking does not matter one diddly what you do, be it github or reddit or writing lengthy missives to asciilifeform [21:30]
asciilifeform: the 1 place i must disagree is 'idiocy outside does not matter to adult. the sweat i put in to remove the fleas from trb, but also from many other things so that i could even attempt that work, was quite real. [21:30]
asciilifeform: the idiots had very real impact, [21:31]
asciilifeform: the amount of flamethrower fuel they cost me, is considerable. [21:31]
mircea_popescu: this has not so much to do with them and a lot to do with satoshi being a derp. [21:31]
asciilifeform: not only him. [21:32]
asciilifeform: rms also. [21:32]
asciilifeform: linux [21:32]
asciilifeform: linus [21:32]
asciilifeform: all of'em [21:32]
asciilifeform: why did i have to saw dbus out of emacs? ~why was it there??!~ to begin with. [21:32]
mircea_popescu: every once in a while it'll happen that a retard has a good idea and fucks it up in the implementation. this is unavoidable, and some dirtying of hands will occur. [21:33]
trinque: emacs is already a monstrous amalgamation itself, before dbus [21:33]
trinque: they were just continuing the theme [21:33]
asciilifeform: do you recall the integer bug in motherfucking gcc?! [21:33]
mircea_popescu: yeah should be curious to see when did alf like dbus. rms ? pre ? post ? [21:33]
asciilifeform: at one point i had no substantial quarrel with rms. [21:34]
mircea_popescu: in other holy shit wtf is wrong with people - mp decides to examine wtf are these dorks doing to his xmlrpc.php. so he writes in serialize($_POST), which is apparently how you're supposed to do this. but which also promptly fucks something up [21:35]
asciilifeform: speaking of shitware lelz, i have here a toy comp that logs in 'with finger', and after the incident with the cement, guess wat!! [21:41]
asciilifeform: (btw cemented what? squirrel holes in roof eaves) [21:42]
mircea_popescu: lol [21:43]
mircea_popescu: this is utterly incomprehensible. so there's this bunch of bots that keep making empty post requests, identify as googlebot. here's a sample : [22:08]
mircea_popescu: s:15:"HTTP_USER_AGENT" s:47:"Googlebot/2.1 [22:08]
mircea_popescu: (+http://www.google.com/bot.html)" s:12:"QUERY_STRING" s:0:"" s:13:"191.101.6.178" s:14:"REQUEST_METHOD" s:4:"POST" s:11:"REQUEST_URI" s:11:"/xmlrpc.php" s:18:"REQUEST_TIME_FLOAT" d:1484362254.992538928985595703125 s:12:"REQUEST_TIME" i:1484362254 s:4:"argv" a:0:{}s:4:"argc" i:0 } [22:08]
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the idiocy of ... seriously, you're going to specify BOTH request time and request time float to be passed around through each request forever ?!?! ... wtf is this ? empty posts to xmlrpc.php. why. [22:09]
mircea_popescu: if anyone can explain this wonder to me i'd be indebted. [22:09]
mircea_popescu: at first i thought they're trying to spam trilema, and doing it from central ip but inept enough to not realize that the custom error message trilema spits if you try this is NOT a success (ie, matching for failure, and failing to move on). ie, stupid. [22:13]
mircea_popescu: but as the months wore on (no fucking kidding, half a year +, 2-3-5 a minute, every minute, no exception, i've seen by now 10`000s of ips doing THIS and this only) i started thinking maybe i'm the stupid one here ? [22:13]
mircea_popescu: so i thought long and hard wtf it could be, and it finally occured to me maybe they're using the pingback checking trilema does to "drive traffic", ie, dorks "buy traffic", spammer asks list of wordpress installs to check if dork has pingback, dork thinks he's getting "uniques". [22:14]
mircea_popescu: but no, you can't do this with an empty post, it'd have to include dataz. [22:15]
* mircea_popescu is entirely confounded. [22:15]
mircea_popescu: oh unsurprisingly enough rust has a "code of conduct". this is getting to be signal-positive : if $item has "code of conduct", $item is comprised of idiots, imbeciles and their handlers. [22:21]
mircea_popescu: "Your free speech is not our problem. We recognize that this policy is a restrictive political stance. That is the intent. If you want a room with different rules, go create one." [22:24]
mircea_popescu: hurr. stomp a sjw face today. [22:24]
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gExZMLrIvWI << pretty lulzy as far as entomology goes. tldw : infantile beta male with a history of derping about how "boyish" everyone else is. [22:28]
ben_vulpes: CoC has been a warning flag forever [22:52]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> watching glue dry is better nao. << How are the urethane warts doing? [22:56]
mircea_popescu: lmao [23:13]
mircea_popescu: anyway, /me tires of #rust. there's been 500 join/parts and strictly one line ("<clmg> How do I borrow a vector mutably while iterating over that vector? Is it possible?") in the past 3 hours. [23:14]
mircea_popescu: (you may be excused from thinking that's a stupid question, as it is, but nevertheless the rust lingo is insane in this vein. "why can i not borrow a boxed vector content as mutable" ie let's make up a whole lingo of nonsense) [23:16]
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/Gnziq <<< powering the ethereum revolution, among other unheretoforeheardof lulz [23:18]
mircea_popescu: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ <<< guess what else is gone. [23:21]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602836 << they shit in phuctor's mouth also [23:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-14 03:08 mircea_popescu: this is utterly incomprehensible. so there's this bunch of bots that keep making empty post requests, identify as googlebot. here's a sample : [23:29]
ben_vulpes: i went a-hunting for an 0.8.6 binary for a friend recently [23:30]
ben_vulpes: completely gone. [23:31]
ben_vulpes: stripped from web. [23:31]
BingoBoingo: Oh my [23:33]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i might have one [23:34]
asciilifeform: why do you need a binary anyway [23:34]
asciilifeform: (and for what?) [23:34]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lel, maidsafe?! in there. i had nfi still existed [23:35]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602856 << that link -- loads [23:40]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-14 04:21 mircea_popescu: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ <<< guess what else is gone. [23:40]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: well, 'need'. went looking. [23:40]
ben_vulpes: wasn't in the mood for trbquest on civvy machine [23:41]
ben_vulpes: normie cucks gotta normie cuck, you know? [23:41]
asciilifeform: dunno [23:42]
asciilifeform: why not subscribe him to mtgox then. [23:42]
asciilifeform: this friend of yers. [23:42]
ben_vulpes: man has to understand what he's dealing with. [23:43]
ben_vulpes: "ohey look, the dipshits took down the legacy bins." "...oh. that's not good." [23:43]
asciilifeform: with mtgox, he will, if he has half a brain, understand that he has 0 btc, but buncha promises. but with prb, might have delusion of control [23:43]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i appreciate the concern. nobody in my wot's operating under the delusion that modernly available bitcoin clients will move their coins safely. [23:44]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: did the prbistas even distribute bins for anything but winblowz ? [23:45]
ben_vulpes: aye, there were macos bins. [23:45]
asciilifeform: ah with the qt thing [23:45]
ben_vulpes: mhm [23:46]
ben_vulpes: so is 'echo' really how you get values from php to html? [23:47]
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Category: Logs
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