Forum logs for 06 Jan 2018
| asciilifeform: | apparently the 2016 mircea_popescu-rigormotris-v , as in http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-23-dec-2016#2215608 , is doomed to come back again and again 4evah | [00:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2016-12-23 19:53 asciilifeform: if i had any reason to think that turning v tree into a forest of vertical stakes , exponentially crowded with IDENTICAL payloads that cannot be machine-compared , would make it easier to tell friend from foe and wisdom from folly -- i would agree with mircea_popescu's algo. but i do not. | [00:04] |
| asciilifeform: | *mortis | [00:04] |
| asciilifeform: | who wants to use -- go use. asciilifeform won't touch. | [00:04] |
| asciilifeform: | ... and i recommend then to dispense with the pretense of automation, and simply return to signing tarballs. moar honest, and logically equivalent. | [00:05] |
| asciilifeform: | i'll admit, i very much dungetit. errybody hated 2015-v from day 1 ? wanted the 1kb patches to be 1MB ? or wat. | [00:12] |
| asciilifeform: | thread inescapably reminds asciilifeform of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902 . | [00:14] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.' | [00:14] |
| asciilifeform: | and yes it is exactly same thing. mircea_popescu/trinque-style 'single hash' v is moar philosophically-coherent. change 1 byte ? you now live in separate universe. and anyone who wants to use any of yours, must manually create a new universe. | [00:17] |
| asciilifeform: | and now it takes a lifetime to simply juggle the v-mechanics, leaving ~0 time for any of the 'irrelevant' detail like, say, writing ffa. | [00:18] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765888 << fughet, for the final time, 'bazaar', esr ain't here, and aint' gonna be here. and it is wrong to use the whip used for esr, on actual people. until you grasp this, your universe will not contain actual people. to unsheath the esr whip here is a fundamentally solipsistic act. | [00:21] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 04:31 mircea_popescu: but yes, there is no other kind of code besides monolith i've had enough "bazaar" for three lifetimes of other people i don't particularly like and moreover code ambiguity is fucking nuts. | [00:21] |
| asciilifeform: | and there is no 'ambiguity' in 2015-v , except in so far as incompetent patch authors permit it. | [00:21] |
| asciilifeform: | which to date is never. | [00:22] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765881 << sanity looks like this : 'trb since 2015 is made of v. and works. and quite compact. and fundamentally mechanics are correct.' | [00:25] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 04:18 mircea_popescu: this is the discussion, proceed but proceed like sane fucking people, save me blood pressure. | [00:25] |
| asciilifeform: | i'ma leave this apparently immortal zombie thread alone for nao, for sake of own blood pressure. | [00:25] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl, bed. | [00:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | gah | [01:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | im striking all this crap from the record. | [01:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | there's a very strict limit on the complexity of any discussion (which -- correlates to its utility) imposed by the propensity of bad actor to inject nonsense in the conversation. | [01:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | every single fucking line you produced in this attempt to double down on the "lalala i can't hear anything" idiocy is flaming, offensive bullshit. | [01:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | first off, the ENTIRE edifice of sanity you partake in is built ENTIRELY on my writing cheques on other people's time. you're welcome to like or not like this, but it is not open to your review. | [01:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | second off, this approach where you take some vague fragment of what was said, respin it into some bit of nonsense meaningful to some random other interest in your own head and proceed as if that's what's said is not a game anyone in my experience willingly entertained. | [01:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | either manage to discuss in the sense of, as part of the discussion, or else go discuss in the sense of, talking to yourself. | [01:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | as to the peculiar way in which http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search= renders the various arrows : it makes the implication that eg ch4 parents are ch3 "as well as ch1" for the coincidental reason that ch1 is included in ch4s parents both "indirectly" via c3 and "directly" in the lateral and unimportant sense that ch4 changes both files which were changed by ch3 and files that weren't changed since c1. this DOES | [01:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | NOT make ch4 have "two parents" in the sense contemplated here. it only has one, because the ch1 as included by ch3 is necessarily the same as the ch1 as included "directly". | [01:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | if instead of this we look at the other kind of "two parents", whereby ch3 supposedly has both ch2 and mpi_fix_copy as parents, this is specifically the situation discussed by the problem A : that two patches, which ARE STILL IN A CHAIN, nevertheless happen to touch disjunct filesets, and so the question of their order is open (which phf renders "correctly" in the sense of acceptably as he does but which is NOT meaningful i | [01:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | n the sense you interpret it). | [01:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | so no, at no fucking point does any patch have anything other than a single parent, which is properly speaking "the previous press", rather than "a random collection of files scattered about". like it or not, files don't have the sort of semantic power whereby a db.cpp "of the right hash" will always be useful when imported into some random project. files are not contextless neither because they aren't currently tooled to b | [01:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | e contextless, nor because they could not fucking be so tooled. | [01:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | but in general, this excursion in wank and nonsense could continue ad infinitum and i have reports to write. | [01:32] |
| danielpbarron: | !!up otharwa | [02:26] |
| deedbot: | otharwa voiced for 30 minutes. | [02:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Mx3ZV/?raw=true | [02:28] |
| deedbot: | accepted: 1 | [02:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/D199E/?raw=true | [02:29] |
| deedbot: | accepted: 1 | [02:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!pay diana_coman .39 | [02:43] |
| deedbot: | Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GE03l/?raw=true | [02:43] |
| deedbot: | http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-december-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), December 2017 Statement | [02:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!key ReadErr | [03:24] |
| deedbot: | http://wot.deedbot.org/7C3D6F997D3D965D5A7C74CE9E4BD72145B88987.asc | [03:24] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765918 << if mircea_popescu sees himself as the 1 fella with a working head, and sole fountain of sanity, and errybody else is a peculiar sort of animated furniture -- i am quite powerless to cure. ( occasionally i'll try curing anyway, as it sometimes seems to work , e.g. seems to be finally cured of 'plain text' after 3+ yrs of 'wie sind sie eigentlich... !' ) | [07:54] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 06:17 mircea_popescu: first off, the ENTIRE edifice of sanity you partake in is built ENTIRELY on my writing cheques on other people's time. you're welcome to like or not like this, but it is not open to your review. | [07:54] |
| asciilifeform: | err, wer | [07:55] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765921 << this is entirely troo tho. i simply dun see that it is amenable to a mechanical solution. | [07:56] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 06:28 mircea_popescu: as to the peculiar way in which http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search= renders the various arrows : it makes the implication that eg ch4 parents are ch3 "as well as ch1" for the coincidental reason that ch1 is included in ch4s parents both "indirectly" via c3 and "directly" in the lateral and unimportant sense that ch4 changes both files which were changed by ch3 and files that weren't changed since c1. this DOES | [07:56] |
| asciilifeform: | i built the orig v with a certain amount of mechanical 'luft' , so that lateral motion of information between brains was possible without total history erasure. however it is entirely true that this makes it possible to turn a vtree into nonsense with a sequence of individually-correct operations. now you can try and take away the luft , 'hash whole previous press' etc. you can already get this effect in existing v by concatenating e | [08:02] |
| asciilifeform: | rrything into 1file. this comes at a cost. apparently this particular electric fence must get pissed on empirically, for the cost to become obvious. let it be pissed on then, i haven't presently anything to add. | [08:02] |
| asciilifeform: | will add, however, that there is not and will never be a fully-automated, mechanical nonsense-preventer. it is a moar fantastic dream than the prime-number generator. it is rather like to ask for piano that cannot play badly. | [08:09] |
| asciilifeform: | https://archive.is/gDphe << meanwhile, in other noose, '...impact on CPU usage of one of our back-end services after a host was patched to address the Meltdown vulnerability...' | [08:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | !~ticker --market all | [10:22] |
| jhvh1: | BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16638.36, vol: 13985.49290607 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16683.0, vol: 41480.64559332 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16545.0, vol: 2898.20275182 | Volume-weighted last average: 16665.4505107 | [10:22] |
| PeterL: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765616 << I dun see why patches have to change much? Thinking of the system proposed by mircea_popescu you would have one line change in a "patch version" file, the rest of the patch would be identical to what we have now | [10:33] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 00:00 asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc | [10:33] |
| PeterL: | if the is are sister patches A and B, and you want to make C using both of them you just regrind B to B', the only difference would be the one patch version file, and that difference would be readily vissible by diffing B and B', then make C ontop of B', works with current v IIUC | [10:37] |
| PeterL: | s/the is/there | [10:45] |
| PeterL: | the problem I see with the current system is that you can make a change in one file which relies on a change in behavior of a function defined in a different file. You end up with two "sister" patches, but the second one is invalid without the first. | [10:51] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: as the original ( and afaik to date the only ) perpetrator of this particular warcrime ( the shiva item specifically ) i will say , imho the solution is to Not Do That . rather than to try to make it mechanically impossible. but i'ma not repeat this point further, it dun help . | [10:57] |
| PeterL: | so you want to touch comments in pertinent files after-the-fact, while I am suggesting touching a comment in a central file (README?) each time so that doesn't have to happen | [11:01] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: i dun particularly want anything i'm quite happy (aside from the can't-move-text-or-rename-files nonsense) with the way classical v works. | [11:03] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: so to find how it is broken, you will have to ask the folx who believe that it is broken, when they wake up. or at the very least, to read the log. | [11:06] |
| PeterL: | you don't think it is broken that you were able to commit the "warcrime" so easily? | [11:07] |
| asciilifeform: | nope. | [11:07] |
| asciilifeform: | consider piano. is it necessarily broken, because when a cat walks on the keys, what comes out is not music ? | [11:08] |
| PeterL: | couldn't having a standard of "touch readme file each patch" be a form of "don't do that"? | [11:09] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: the result is that the only way for PeterL to use something asciilifeform wrote, is to turn his house into an exact duplicate of asciilifeform's or alternatively to cut-and-paste, eulora-mpi-style, destroying all record of the copied item's history. but i already said this. try reading log ? | [11:12] |
| PeterL: | isn't that why we have a main-line version of software, so everybody is working on the same thing? does it make sense for everybody to be wroking on something slightly difference and expect my changes to fit your thing? | [11:14] |
| PeterL: | and I don't see it as cut-and paste, you would just be changing the one line in the patch to merge it into your own flow? | [11:15] |
| PeterL: | have a patch-of-the-patch? | [11:15] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: why dontcha wait until trinque writes his modified vtron, and see what this looks like with own eyes. because for each line of this unproductive thread that we write, mircea_popescu will take an extra gulp of rum, and i suspect that it is not good for his digestion. | [11:16] |
| PeterL: | lol | [11:16] |
| PeterL: | and how do I know if I take random patch from you and stick it in my different patch tree that it will not break something? wouldn't I want to have the same world as you before adding your patch? | [11:18] |
| asciilifeform: | if you are 'taking random' somethings from somewhere and 'sticking them' blindly somewhere else, the error is YOU | [11:18] |
| asciilifeform: | there is not a mechanical substitute for own brain. | [11:19] |
| asciilifeform: | the onus is on YOU, to READ every single fucking line. | [11:19] |
| asciilifeform: | i'm not even convinced that mircea_popescu is wrong to demand that everyone who wants to use a patch with own universe, oughta rewrite it, painfully with own hands. | [11:20] |
| asciilifeform: | what i'm not convinced of is that the current crop of hands is up to the job. as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-02#1762384 . | [11:20] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-02 16:10 mircea_popescu: similarily if you went with machine guns into campus of your choice, the output will be pile of bodies, not red army. | [11:20] |
| asciilifeform: | for instance as we speak nao , asciilifeform is rewriting OWN proggy, for the 4th time. line by line. | [11:21] |
| asciilifeform: | and 5th if you count the paper. | [11:21] |
| asciilifeform: | and the other caveat - if a patch is 500kB, 1) no one will in actuality read it 2) people will lie to themselves and each other re having 'read'. | [11:23] |
| asciilifeform: | and will cut&paste and lie to selves re having 'rewritten'. | [11:23] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: didja ever have 1980s b00kz, magazines, with proggies in'em ? asciilifeform did. and learned more from retyping them, than ever learned at uni | [11:26] |
| asciilifeform: | i still have one with little games for c64, written as peek/pokes... | [11:26] |
| asciilifeform: | this was possible partly because 'hands were stronger then' but partly because the proggies were SMALL. | [11:26] |
| PeterL: | yes, I had a couple that included BASIC "games" | [11:29] |
| PeterL: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765051 << when I was little my dad had (might still have) this nice calculator that asciilifeform would like, it was a scientific calculator, used rpn, was about the size of a mans palm, landscape, solid metale housing | [11:31] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-05 18:04 asciilifeform: ever owned a rpn calc , ben_vulpes ? | [11:31] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: hp16 series ? | [11:32] |
| asciilifeform: | i have one here, 16c | [11:32] |
| PeterL: | I dun remember which | [11:32] |
| asciilifeform: | the one with bin/hex/octal buttons | [11:32] |
| asciilifeform: | http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/HP-16C/HP-16C-M.JPG << subj | [11:32] |
| asciilifeform: | there were several models with this shape, for different professions ( the one for accountants is still sold , even ) | [11:33] |
| PeterL: | nah, simmilar layout but about twice as many buttons | [11:33] |
| PeterL: | he is physicist, used it for serious calcs | [11:34] |
| asciilifeform: | possibly one of the contemporary calcs with 'basic' ( e.g. http://calculators.torensma.net/files/images/sharp_el-5400.jpg ) | [11:34] |
| PeterL: | anyway, I gotta go, will reaad logs | [11:34] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: you may find http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-28#1114226 interesting ( 1 of the early 'how we ended up with v' threads ) | [11:35] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-04-28 20:06 ascii_field: not the git thing again | [11:35] |
| shinohai: | Heh I had one of those Sharp calcs when I was a kid, loved the thing. | [11:35] |
| phf: | and the log keeps on logging | [11:39] |
| phf: | asciilifeform: snarfed, but i think i'm missing ch2 for benvulpes | [12:01] |
| asciilifeform: | hm i dun have it either | [12:02] |
| asciilifeform: | apparently. | [12:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765939 << mircea_popescu does not see itself as any such thing, but that's entirely irrelevant. what mircea_popescu sees itself as or doesn't see itself as doesn't enter into it at any point, and you're misstating the problem. | [12:11] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 12:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765918 << if mircea_popescu sees himself as the 1 fella with a working head, and sole fountain of sanity, and errybody else is a peculiar sort of animated furniture -- i am quite powerless to cure. ( occasionally i'll try curing anyway, as it sometimes seems to work , e.g. seems to be finally cured of 'plain text' after 3+ yrs of 'wie sind sie eigentlich... !' ) | [12:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | mircea_popescu IS, in this context and fundamentally, the item where the buck stops, as the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-01-25#459581 concept and consequently #trilema is "a thing such as #trilema", as opposed to "a thing such as pantsuit" BECAUSE #trilema is built on this system as opposed to the "buck never stops" only possible alternative. | [12:11] |
| a111: | Logged on 2014-01-25 17:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, they only had one guy to answer to. all systems which are build around a spot where the buck stops outperforms systems bereft of such. | [12:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | #trilema in particular is #trilema in particular because the buck stops with mircea_popescu as opposed to any other specific implementation of the same concept, but that's neither here nor there moreover you're very much encouraged to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758744 -- a bunch of locals have managed to reach that exalted level where the experience of actually and seriously working the other side of the problem wou | [12:11] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-12-26 19:48 mircea_popescu: go make yer castles today, so noobs have a shot at life in 2018 | [12:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | ld make them more capable. | [12:11] |
| asciilifeform: | butlol, i ~like~ this about mircea_popescu . | [12:12] |
| asciilifeform: | it's why i work with mircea_popescu and not goatfuckistan academy of sciences. | [12:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes, but the sad is that part of that like in your case is built out of insanity. | [12:12] |
| asciilifeform: | now how would i even begin to answer that. | [12:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | sit your ass down for one cottonpicking moment, and consider the fact that you're the fellow who, IN THE SAME DAY, deduced that "nobody reads x" on the basis of "i read it every day and never found x.y". this, somehow, was a rational deduction that passed your filter. THEN you proceeded to threaten its-not-exactly-clear whom with burial, over their threats to steal your printer. and THEN you went off the deep end wrt to some | [12:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | strange contorted whateveritis. | [12:14] |
| asciilifeform: | y'mean printer is safe!?11111 | [12:14] |
| asciilifeform: | and the squirrels know? | [12:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | get a grip man, you have this strange reactive mr hyde portion, thoroughly anxiety driven, as if you honestly believe, with the deep fiber of your 5yo being, that whenever something happens chulhu will come fuck your plushies. one can almost measure the velocity of republic on the basis of alf-insanity-odometer as measured from the logs, are you aware ? correlate of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763554 is directly above. | [12:15] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-04 02:15 mircea_popescu: in other words : republican methodology for improving software, that was slowly swirling towards systematisation down the drain of v turned exponential / made some major breakthroughs in the past six weeks or so. | [12:15] |
| asciilifeform: | well cthulhu did, manner of speaking, fuck the plushies to shreds, and repeatedly. but this happens to ~erryone. | [12:17] |
| * asciilifeform | wrapping up ch6 , only tuned in with 1 eye currently | [12:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | In other news, last night I had my first experience answering a query in Portuguese and having interpreted it as yet another new accent | [12:23] |
| shinohai: | Nao, really? ^.^ | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | Girl inquired whether I was brasilero. | [12:34] |
| shinohai: | "Am I filthy and smell like cannabis?" | [12:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | Nah, it was in the hostel. The safe assumption there is Brasilero until informed otherwise. | [12:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | I was doing my weekly cleaning and oiling of the boots, which likely seemed like a strange custom for Brasileros to have. | [12:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | in other browsergames, dangerous adventure. incredible, someone made gfx mmo right! | [12:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | does anyone want to do this same thing to rogue ? i'd buy. | [12:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | (anyone happen to know daniel mcneely, while we're at it ?) | [12:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://armorgames.com/play/17985/dangerous-adventure-2 < item | [12:43] |
| shinohai: | I have seen him on twitter before I left, don't know him exactly though. | [12:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | guy actually gets gaming, which is rare. always was, but these days... fucking especially. | [12:45] |
| shinohai: | I'll log in and send him a DM if you like, invite him here for a chat. | [12:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah, i thought you were banned | [12:47] |
| shinohai: | I got my ban reversed, but simply couldn't bring myself to go back to that nonsense, figured I had rottede my mind enough. (Thanks alf) | [12:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | cool then! | [12:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | thanks. | [12:48] |
| * shinohai | mainly wanted to copy all his slut contacts, only reason for seeking ban overturn | [12:49] |
| shinohai: | twitter recently announced they would not be deleting accounts of world leaders, perhaps you can get ban overturned now mircea_popescu ! | [12:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | Nah, they only don't ban insufficient world leaders | [12:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | eh, anyone can set up a rss from here, which is ~the whole thing i'd even consider. | [12:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaactualy! how about this as a small job for you shinohai ? set up a bot, rss lines from here to twitter and @, dms from twitter here. | [12:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | just make sure it spits them out when asked and in a paste less it angers ye gods. | [12:55] |
| shinohai: | Interesting idea .... rss feeds themselves are quite easy, but the DM thing caused me grief last time I attempted iirc | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | so without dms then. | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | can't imagine why, it must be just a feed like any other neh ? | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai you can open it up if it works, charge people to host their twatter, it's something. | [12:56] |
| shinohai: | Yes, but supposedly it is an internal twitter "privacy issue" to share DMS | [12:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah. so insta-block anyone who dms you, say so in profile (what, and why -- "do not dm or you will be blocked -- this is because twitter's self-important "privacy" bs) and problem solved. | [12:57] |
| shinohai: | Yeah, I simply turn off DMs there is at least a knob for that. | [12:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | nah, block people like this. let twitter suffer the penalty for their pretend sovereignity. | [12:58] |
| shinohai: | Some rss feeds were on my agenda (ala deedbot !!subscribe), one was /btc/ per http://trilema.com/2015/btc-the-most-recent-8chan-board/ .... but I think that kinda fizzled neh? | [13:02] |
| deedbot: | http://deedbot.org/bundle-502886.txt | [13:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cA0Ar/?raw=true | [13:21] |
| deedbot: | accepted: 1 | [13:21] |
| ben_vulpes: | asciilifeform: oversight | [13:45] |
| deedbot: | http://deedbot.org/bundle-502889.txt | [13:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1766053 << i dunno, i guess it never gathered any interest. | [14:23] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-06 18:02 shinohai: Some rss feeds were on my agenda (ala deedbot !!subscribe), one was /btc/ per http://trilema.com/2015/btc-the-most-recent-8chan-board/ .... but I think that kinda fizzled neh? | [14:23] |
| shinohai: | Might do a Eulora promotion or something there this Spring if the btc Gods are kind to me this winter. | [14:24] |
| shinohai: | Surely the autism can't be any higher than the tardstalk experiment. | [14:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | The return of kink place as a "crypto" forum too. Maybe take the temperature of their autism? | [14:35] |
| shinohai: | Might be worthwhile, will add to battle plans this year. | [14:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | if one manages to not expect much, the extramural internet rarely manages to disappoint. | [14:38] |
| shinohai: | aha | [14:40] |
| asciilifeform: | hey mircea_popescu , do you remember whether gpg 1.4 ( virginal ) can be forced to dump hashpayload when verifying sigs ? | [14:41] |
| asciilifeform: | --debug-all dun do it. | [14:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform i don't remember that it can be. gotta to the hard way unbase64 etc | [14:42] |
| asciilifeform: | grr annoying. | [14:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | myeah. | [14:43] |
| deedbot: | http://deedbot.org/bundle-502896.txt | [14:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | !!rated ReadErr | [15:28] |
| deedbot: | mircea_popescu rated ReadErr 1 at 2018/01/03 04:50:14 << very.legit.person | [15:28] |
| asciilifeform: | and nao: | [16:00] |
| deedbot: | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2105 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 6: Geological RSA. | [16:00] |
| asciilifeform: | ACHTUNG, PANZERS! ^ | [16:00] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ replications invited. | [16:01] |
| asciilifeform: | !~later tell phf plox to snarf ch6 , ty | [16:06] |
| jhvh1: | asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. | [16:06] |
| asciilifeform: | closedform rsa, folx!111 | [16:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | ha! | [16:15] |
| asciilifeform: | this one contains a candy. | [16:16] |
| asciilifeform: | pehbot updated. | [16:18] |
| ben_vulpes: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763376 << /me puts on dunce cap | [17:10] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-01-03 19:46 asciilifeform: mod6: it's the 'official' answer, linked in ch5. | [17:10] |
| ben_vulpes: | asciilifeform: this is possibly the most fun and educational homework i have ever undertaken | [17:19] |
| ben_vulpes: | bbl, familytime | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah, i'm also quite pleased with the very good style of the items. readily doubles as manual for proper use of english. | [17:34] |
| asciilifeform: | odd, cuz asciilifeform got a distinct feeling that he had made a pudding of it. but happy that mircea_popescu found it edible. | [17:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | perfectly fine. | [17:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | are you allowed to call it "aocp" btw ? | [17:35] |
| asciilifeform: | i dun think anyone will wonder 'what's aocp' | [17:36] |
| asciilifeform: | errybody either has seen , or pretends to have seen, aocp. | [17:36] |
| * mircea_popescu | got the impression he named it deliberately for the acronymism (a lot more excusable in his case seeing how the uscongresstards hadn't yet driven that joke into the ground) and will sneak out to mix sugar in your fuel tank at night if you dare lop off the the | [17:36] |
| asciilifeform: | ( at one time errybody either read or pretended to have read... ) | [17:37] |
| * asciilifeform | has nfi | [17:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | TAOcp, see. | [17:37] |
| asciilifeform: | if the good doktor writes in and asks, i'ma add a t. | [17:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | works | [17:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform nice graph but where's the datapoints on it ? | [17:39] |
| asciilifeform: | good point, i'ma link'em: | [17:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | all the crossings ? | [17:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | as a general rule : if you publish a graph, which is continuous, and based on empirical data, do the world a favour and color-dot the datapoints on there. | [17:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | "Lets verify the RSA seal of ffa_ch6_simplest_rsa.vpatch, the Chapter 6 code itself, using itself". epic. | [17:41] |
| asciilifeform: | updated. | [17:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol he patched rsa. ehehehe | [17:42] |
| asciilifeform: | blew most of an hr looking for that dumper ('gotta be in there...') | [17:43] |
| asciilifeform: | naturally koch methodically omitted it | [17:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh. | [17:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, as ben_vulpes says, these are a pleasure. | [17:44] |
| asciilifeform: | yay | [17:44] |
| asciilifeform: | nitpicks/replications/timing data invited. | [17:44] |
| asciilifeform: | pretty curious how this one will look on various iron. | [17:44] |
| * mircea_popescu | will pay 2 bitcents to the first l2 (not l1) that produces timing data, to the same standard as teh graph, + machine spec. | [17:45] |
| asciilifeform: | nifty, ty mircea_popescu . possibly some of the new blood will finally do a job | [17:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | give noobs a chance! | [17:46] |
| deedbot: | http://trilema.com/2018/no-such-labs-snsa-december-2018-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), December 2018 Statement | [17:47] |
| asciilifeform: | the nonsensical padding scheme used by rfc2440/4880/koch is on display , incidentally | [17:50] |
| asciilifeform: | with the 1FFFFF......FFFFFFFblahblah | [17:51] |
| shinohai: | ^ neat asciilifeform ... I'm a bit slower learning these bits (like debug flag 2 didn't work on gpg2 because mpi) but patience. | [17:54] |
| asciilifeform: | shinohai: you can't use gpg2 for this. nor stock gpg1 | [17:54] |
| asciilifeform: | the patch is against classical ( mircea_popescuine ) 1.4.10 . | [17:54] |
| shinohai: | I know, I have since converted solely to 1.4.x usage | [17:54] |
| shinohai: | ^ yeah that one | [17:54] |
| asciilifeform: | btw if somebody wants to write a py or pl scriptoid that'll generate the gpg-matching 1ffffff...blah turdoid for a given file , he will get honourable-mention in the next chapter. | [17:57] |
| asciilifeform: | ( then can dispose of gpg for this, entirely ! ) | [17:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is a little like being offered mention in the bible. i imagine many at the time thought 40 silvers a better deal, however... | [17:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | history did not end up supporting that view. | [17:58] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-22#1247807 << how-to. | [17:58] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-08-22 00:10 mircea_popescu: 5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format | [17:58] |
| asciilifeform: | we're approx. at level of a ( much cleaner ) circa- june 2017 ffa nao. | [18:00] |
| asciilifeform: | libffa ( the actual arithmetism ) is cumulatively ~1900 loc, (80col!11) inclusive of whitespace , banners, and commentolade ffacalc apparatus another ~900, ditto. | [18:02] |
| asciilifeform: | as of ch6, i mean. | [18:03] |
| asciilifeform: | btw i prolly oughta have mentioned, the timing figures (not only in ch6, but all posted to date) presume that ~all~ bounds-checks remain enabled. | [18:05] |
| asciilifeform: | if one is satisfied with the nonoverflowability of the array refs , under all possible inputs , it is possible to yank'em. and get order-of-magnitude speedup. | [18:05] |
| asciilifeform: | ffa is possibly one of the few nontrivial proggies where you can actually do this. because there are no data-dependent branches (aside from the 'data' which is the bitness you run under -- this determines the loopness of the loops) | [18:07] |
| asciilifeform: | the only data-dependent branches are in ffa_calc , the calculator. | [18:08] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl,meat | [18:14] |
| esthlos: | asciilifeform: ada woes, am I missing a library? http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ndFJX/?raw=true | [19:28] |
| asciilifeform: | esthlos: there are no libraries | [19:30] |
| asciilifeform: | lemme guess, yer on a crapple ?? | [19:30] |
| esthlos: | gentoo | [19:30] |
| asciilifeform: | show how you vpressed | [19:30] |
| asciilifeform: | and your complete dir structure and contents | [19:33] |
| esthlos: | uh, just used ./v.pl p press_output ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch, if that's what you mean | [19:33] |
| esthlos: | ah ok | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform: | and which gnat | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform: | gnat --version | [19:33] |
| esthlos: | fucking xclip | [19:34] |
| esthlos: | http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PNSbn/?raw=true | [19:35] |
| esthlos: | well this is fun: gnat: command not found, BUT gprbuild does stuff... | [19:36] |
| asciilifeform: | ahahahahah | [19:36] |
| esthlos: | mebbe its the usual gentoo breaking things into 20 pieces | [19:36] |
| asciilifeform: | you have a bodged install loox like | [19:36] |
| esthlos: | lul | [19:36] |
| esthlos: | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Ada | [19:37] |
| esthlos: | wait, maybe you're supposed to compile AGAIN after USE=bootstrap compile | [19:38] |
| asciilifeform: | if you dont know how to magick a gentoo gcc-gnat, use adacore's | [19:38] |
| esthlos: | mmk | [19:38] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl | [19:45] |
| asciilifeform: | taxdude (92734888@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.146.115.72.136) has joined #trilema << lolwat. | [21:37] |
| esthlos: | sorry to be a bother asciilifeform, but still not working with adacore's gnat: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/NjSGH/?raw=true | [21:46] |
| asciilifeform: | didja clean up ? | [21:46] |
| asciilifeform: | from last time | [21:46] |
| esthlos: | if you don't have any leads i'll mess around i suppose | [21:46] |
| esthlos: | yea, gprclean | [21:46] |
| asciilifeform: | rm -rf the dir and re-press | [21:47] |
| esthlos: | k, standby | [21:47] |
| asciilifeform: | and what it looks like is that your gprbuild, for some odd reason , refuses to recurse. try gprbuild inside libffa , then afterwards gprbuild inside ffademo. | [21:48] |
| asciilifeform: | ( there is no reason why this ought to be necessary, this is the 1st report of this type of barf i've seen , in reading yr+ of various barf reports re gnat ) | [21:49] |
| asciilifeform: | presently i suspect that gpl-gnat has succumbed to the work of wreckers. ~100% of the barfology to date, has been from gpl-gnat users with astonishingly variously rotted carcasses in place of a working compiler | [21:51] |
| esthlos: | libffa builds fine on fresh press, but not the demo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HtlZe/?raw=true | [21:51] |
| asciilifeform: | interesting | [21:51] |
| asciilifeform: | your gprbuild works ~except~ to recurse. | [21:52] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ anybody seen anything of this kind ? mod6 ? phf ? ben_vulpes ? | [21:52] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman ? who else works with gpl-gnat | [21:52] |
| esthlos: | i got no acl/selinux nonsense or whatever | [21:52] |
| mod6: | looking.. | [21:52] |
| mod6: | everything pressed ok right esthlos ? | [21:53] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis#L161 << the specific item that seems to fail on his box | [21:54] |
| esthlos: | yes mod6 | [21:54] |
| mod6: | ok. i've not seen any error like that for sometime now, definitely predates the recent loper-os posts. | [21:57] |
| mod6: | i use that adacore version fwiw | [21:58] |
| mod6: | i did just press & compile up through chapter 6 successfully. so that works at least. | [22:13] |
| esthlos: | i will try on eulora box once its spun up. | [22:15] |
| esthlos: | issue resolved by moving to 2016 ada | [23:53] |
Category: Logs
