Forum logs for 01 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
trinque thoughts of a navel-fixated narcissist [00:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26836 @ 0.00051121 = 13.7188 BTC [-] [00:00]
* assbot removes voice from TheButterZone [00:04]
punkman "There is now a pull request to remove mention of "zero or low fees", "fast international payments", and "instant peer-to-peer transactions" from bitcoin.org. For those non-technical users who do not read source code, this may come across as the breaking of the social contract on what Bitcoin is ultimately intended to be." [00:08]
* assbot removes voice from jnpn [00:09]
trinque breaking the social contract lol [00:09]
decimation lol [00:09]
* mike_c (~mike_c@unaffiliated/mike-c/x-9105598) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:10]
trinque at least with religious magical thinking it's anchored to a book. [00:10]
* assbot gives voice to mike_c [00:11]
* TheButterZone (~TheButter@unaffiliated/thebutterzone) has left #bitcoin-assets [00:11]
punkman https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/4d17d28d5c681a93fa63 ahaha check out this comedian from MIT [00:14]
assbot bip-STUAFS.mediawiki · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1OUdQfr ) [00:14]
punkman "Why don't you use short keys? They scale better" [00:15]
trinque punkman: hey he says they should be secure, so they should be [00:16]
trinque he's right [00:16]
punkman that gut wrenching feeling after you try 30 variations of an infrequently used password... [00:38]
punkman the realization this trove of data is forever lost, sinking in [00:39]
trinque brutal [00:40]
punkman but then you take a walk and it comes back to you [00:40]
punkman or not [00:40]
trinque punkman: if it makes you feel better, the guy that yelled at me re: trannies, and which wrote tenyks, lost 130 odd btc that way [00:40]
decimation http://www.macrumors.com/2015/07/31/ibm-200k-macs/ < interesting [00:41]
assbot IBM to Purchase Up to 200,000 Macs Annually, With 50-75% of Employees Ultimately Switching From Lenovo - Mac Rumors ... ( http://bit.ly/1OUgnX7 ) [00:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25050 @ 0.00053489 = 13.399 BTC [+] [00:41]
decimation hopefully this will influence apple to turn osx into a more adult unix, but I wouldn't hold my breath [00:41]
punkman lol [00:42]
BingoBoingo I doubt IBM is running anything other than OS/370 on them [00:42]
decimation heh those days are long gone [00:43]
BingoBoingo At least they could run AIX [00:43]
danielpbarron http://danielpbarron.com/debug.log-367850.txt [00:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gvSnyd ) [00:48]
danielpbarron deedbot- http://danielpbarron.com/debug.log-367850.txt [00:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gvSnyd ) [00:48]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [00:48]
BingoBoingo danielpbarron: You still stalled out? [00:49]
danielpbarron ya [00:50]
danielpbarron grep that file for 11DbException [00:51]
danielpbarron > Db::put: Cannot allocate memory [00:51]
danielpbarron > ProcessMessage(block, 999960 bytes) FAILED [00:51]
danielpbarron the gnomes figured out a magic amount of bytes that got accepted by some but not all, except it seems their beloved bc.i got caught in the fire [00:52]
BingoBoingo So it's more "non-deterministic behavior" and 40,000 probably just wasn't enough DB locks and objects to fix it [00:53]
* trinque strives to imagine what could actually need to lock 40k records in a db [00:54]
danielpbarron apparently this block set the record for number of transactions included [00:54]
BingoBoingo danielpbarron: And the one two later apparently set another [00:56]
trinque same thing done here with locks is probably also trivially represented by a nullable foreign key [00:57]
trinque 40k locks boggles my mind [00:57]
trinque ben_vulpes: what's the thing even locking? [00:58]
trinque asciilifeform: ^^ ? [00:58]
BingoBoingo It's March 2013 all over again [00:58]
punkman danielpbarron: which node is that? [00:59]
trinque like... what's the cost of making the threads just *not bump into each other* vs using locks because "that's what you do with concurrent code" ? [00:59]
mats https://projectbullrun.org/dual-ec/documents/dual-ec-20150731.pdf [00:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gvTNsw ) [00:59]
danielpbarron punkman, that's a 0.5.3.1-beta [00:59]
mats 'dual EC: a standardized backdoor' by djb, tanja lange, ruben niederhagen [01:00]
trinque really, can anyone explain why bitcoind must have 40k locks? [01:00]
trinque or apparently more [01:00]
trinque because that didn't cut it [01:00]
BingoBoingo trinque: It seemed like a safer number than the one that wedged before [01:01]
trinque I mean in that case infinite locks are best [01:01]
trinque heh [01:01]
decimation trinque: yeah this is standard for 'threaded' code [01:01]
trinque decimation: 40k ?! [01:01]
decimation folks can't be bothered to actually think about how to design things without collisions [01:01]
trinque decimation: right [01:01]
trinque exactly [01:01]
trinque but what collides in bitcoind, these are transaction records? [01:02]
trinque or what [01:02]
trinque in my mental model of this thing there are not 40k things needing to be locked anywhere [01:02]
decimation heh. there's several threads running simultaneously [01:02]
trinque processing incoming barf from other nodes, yes? [01:03]
trinque does it then write all messages to the db then start processing them? [01:03]
decimation I can't enumerate them all, but the network code, for instance, runs in a different thread than the db code for instace [01:03]
trinque I'm reading through the code, just trying to prime on whatever knowledge is handy [01:03]
decimation I'm not sure on that point, would need to read the code [01:03]
punkman you gotta read BDB code for those locks [01:03]
* alpalp has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [01:04]
* joecool has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [01:07]
punkman "Blockchain.info is currently down for maintenance. For status updates please see Twitter. Apologies for any inconvenience. " [01:12]
punkman so they got wedged pretty bad? [01:12]
danielpbarron punkman, https://archive.is/kpf3y [01:15]
assbot Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1KGQjgF ) [01:15]
asciilifeform ph0rk ?! [01:24]
asciilifeform 367850 here. [01:24]
trinque 367876 << deedbot [01:25]
trinque 2015-08-01_04:12:33.56149 [01:26]
trinque utc [01:26]
punkman trinque: is that still on btcd? [01:27]
BingoBoingo ph0rk ?! << BDB exhaustion, upping maxlocks and DBobjects fixes [01:28]
asciilifeform i see no such thing here [01:28]
trinque punkman: it is [01:29]
punkman BingoBoingo: so you have an unwedged 0.5.3? [01:29]
asciilifeform no [01:29]
asciilifeform they're all firmly wedged [01:29]
BingoBoingo punkman: Unwedged 0.7-ish stator still isn't anywhere near this sync'd yet [01:29]
asciilifeform but i see nothing suggesting a db-related reason for it [01:29]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: record setting numbers of transactions in blocks [01:30]
asciilifeform sure [01:32]
asciilifeform but the conclusion does not follow [01:32]
punkman danielpbarron: > Db::put: Cannot allocate memory << it's a bdb problem [01:32]
BingoBoingo Follows same way as in March 2013 [01:32]
decimation https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/07/31/in-historic-announcement-marine-corps-declares-controversial-f-35-ready-for-combat/ [01:34]
assbot The Marines say the controversial F-35 fighter is now ready for combat. Now what? - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCd5HZ ) [01:34]
decimation "They also pointed out that the aircraft is still under development and that full production is not scheduled until 2019, 17 years after the program’s inception. And they wondered whether the Pentagon really need 2,443 of the planes “in light of countervailing pressure to reduce force structure to conserve resources.”" [01:35]
decimation as usual usg claims success early and often [01:35]
* TheRealJohnGalt has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [01:39]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: grepping ~9GB of log takes a while... [01:39]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I just upped the DB shit to 80000, backed up my blockchain, and recompiled [01:40]
BingoBoingo was very slow to eat 51, but it did [01:40]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: is there a particular reason we didn't set that knob to maxint ? [01:40]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I think we just copied that number from some patch Luke-Jr pointed us to [01:41]
asciilifeform i mean, wtf is with this hardcoded limit retardation [01:41]
asciilifeform is it 1974 and we are at ibm, in fortran ? [01:41]
asciilifeform and lists can be 500 members long [01:41]
BingoBoingo Kinda we are [01:41]
asciilifeform i mean, yes, i haven't turned my death ray on db.cpp yet [01:42]
asciilifeform because - it worked [01:42]
BingoBoingo And then it didn't [01:42]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [01:42]
BingoBoingo !up Luke-Jr [01:43]
* assbot gives voice to Luke-Jr [01:43]
* asciilifeform will answer when the greps output [01:44]
Luke-Jr asciilifeform: that's (partly) why we moved to LevelDB ;) [01:44]
BingoBoingo !down Luke-Jr [01:44]
* assbot removes voice from Luke-Jr [01:44]
BingoBoingo Imma go for a walk [01:44]
danielpbarron hahahahaha [01:45]
trinque asciilifeform | BingoBoingo: is there a particular reason we didn't set that knob to maxint ? [01:47]
trinque again, what is it doing locking that many records at once?!?! [01:47]
trinque at least in this conversation we *are* talking about databases; the above is insanely shit [01:48]
trinque 40k of what [01:48]
trinque point me at it and I'll go kill [01:48]
* TheRealJohnGalt (uid29986@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uiobjknpsiouiccl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:49]
trinque I modeled this thing with ben_vulpes one day on a whiteboard; the blockchain is not an impossibly complex data structure [01:49]
punkman this probably comes from derpy indexes and structures used by bitcoind, not the blockchain [01:54]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo - yes [02:02]
asciilifeform Db::put: Cannot allocate memory [02:03]
* felipelalli (~felipelal@187.10.28.226) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:09]
* felipelalli has quit (Changing host) [02:09]
* felipelalli (~felipelal@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:09]
* asciilifeform cleans chopping block [02:09]
punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW5gPlSJcE [02:10]
assbot Foodies Kill Their Food For The First Time - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYQ4hg ) [02:10]
asciilifeform mod6, ben_vulpes, BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, et al: [02:17]
asciilifeform achtung, panzerz!!! [02:17]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000138.html [02:17]
assbot [BTC-dev] Bullet in the Forehead for the BDB Locks Idiocy ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYQuE4 ) [02:17]
asciilifeform ^ apparently doesn't work [02:19]
asciilifeform do not use this patch! [02:19]
punkman max locks: " This value is used by DB_ENV->open to estimate how much space to allocate for various lock-table data structures" [02:19]
mircea_popescu o.O [02:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how exactly is it ~supposed~ to work ? [02:20]
asciilifeform ************************ [02:20]
asciilifeform EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException [02:20]
asciilifeform DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery [02:20]
asciilifeform ^ result [02:20]
asciilifeform haste - makes waste. [02:20]
asciilifeform what the max value that bdb will eat, remains unknown. [02:20]
mircea_popescu it's platform dependant [02:20]
punkman depends on available memory [02:20]
mircea_popescu it's a mess in any case. [02:21]
cazalla punkman, what a lost generation, can't even kill a chicken without getting out their phone to post it on fkn instagram [02:21]
cazalla and they all give the expected response of "i'm gonna think about my food more often in future" instead of hey, imma get some chickens and do this at home [02:23]
asciilifeform 80000 runs... [02:23]
asciilifeform i do not like this, at all. [02:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: bdb ~will~ have to die [02:23]
* funkenstein_ (~user@static-64-223-210-225.port.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:24]
* funkenstein_ is now known as Guest29865 [02:24]
mircea_popescu the gnomes figured out a magic amount of bytes that got accepted by some but not all, except it seems their beloved bc.i got caught in the fire << bc.i gets caught in every fire. [02:24]
mircea_popescu is it 1974 and we are at ibm, in fortran ? << just about. [02:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22587 @ 0.00052902 = 11.949 BTC [+] {2} [02:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform lol. [02:28]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187470 [02:28]
assbot Logged on 04-07-2015 22:20:58; ascii_modem: picture if we had pogos deployed [02:28]
mircea_popescu conversely : if bitcoind can not run in bdb, bitcoind is very poorly written [02:28]
asciilifeform rather, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188263 [02:29]
assbot Logged on 05-07-2015 15:33:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187470 << what i was saying there bears repeating. if we had a fleet of pogos deployed, they would ~all~ be paperweights now. and for so long as we use the cpp turd, there can be no guarantee of this kind of thing not happening in the future. [02:29]
mircea_popescu but that does not excuse the pos bdb is. [02:29]
asciilifeform this product is not suitable for orbiting rom [02:29]
mircea_popescu so it isn't. [02:29]
asciilifeform and i will not take responsibility for it deployed in such. [02:29]
asciilifeform 'dulap' and 'zoolag' now running 80000. [02:30]
mircea_popescu set_lk_max_locks 80000 you mean ? [02:31]
asciilifeform 'incitatus' is a penIII with 512MB and will be shut down in the next week. [02:31]
asciilifeform aha. [02:31]
asciilifeform and max_objects [02:31]
asciilifeform received block 000000000000000004ca [02:31]
asciilifeform REORGANIZE [02:31]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:31]
mircea_popescu and lockers ? [02:31]
asciilifeform ^ lulzies [02:31]
asciilifeform lockers ? [02:31]
mircea_popescu set_lk_max_lockers [02:32]
mircea_popescu ftr i've been running set_lk_max_locks 2737000 set_lk_max_objects 1119200 since sometime in 2012. [02:32]
asciilifeform there are no 'set_lk_max_lockers' [02:33]
mircea_popescu "there are no" where ? [02:33]
asciilifeform in the fucking source [02:34]
asciilifeform there are set_lk_max_locks [02:34]
punkman asciilifeform: you'll have to add it [02:34]
asciilifeform and set_lk_max_objects [02:34]
asciilifeform and set_lg_max. [02:34]
mircea_popescu in the source of who ? [02:34]
mircea_popescu it's a bdb thing. [02:34]
mircea_popescu DB_CONFIG is a bdb config not a bitcoind config. [02:35]
punkman bitcoind does some bdb config [02:35]
* asciilifeform looks [02:35]
mircea_popescu so it does yes [02:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it exists! [02:36]
asciilifeform what value didja use for it? [02:36]
mircea_popescu lol what, you thought i thought it didn't ? [02:36]
mircea_popescu same as objects, for no good reason. [02:37]
asciilifeform thought it might be unique to mircea_popescu's pdpcoin [02:37]
* copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [02:37]
mircea_popescu im not that snowflakey. [02:37]
mircea_popescu (might be a good reason but i forget if i ever knew) [02:37]
asciilifeform what was your lg_max ? [02:37]
mircea_popescu ftr i've been running set_lk_max_locks 2737000 set_lk_max_objects 1119200 since sometime in 2012. < ? [02:38]
asciilifeform i don't see an lg_max here [02:38]
mircea_popescu i dun think i set it [02:38]
mircea_popescu anyway there's a reason for the magic numbers too, something to do with theoretical maximums of a 1mb block but i don't recall what THAT was either. [02:39]
asciilifeform accepted connection 50.244.13.28:58417 [02:39]
asciilifeform socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0 [02:39]
asciilifeform aaaah [02:39]
asciilifeform good old usg-actually-owning-the-fucking-net [02:40]
asciilifeform ************************ [02:40]
asciilifeform EXCEPTION: 11DbException [02:40]
asciilifeform Db::put: Cannot allocate memory [02:40]
asciilifeform bitcoin in ProcessMessage() [02:40]
asciilifeform ProcessMessage(block, 806004 bytes) FAILED [02:40]
asciilifeform received block 0000000000000000076d [02:40]
asciilifeform REORGANIZE [02:40]
asciilifeform ^ on 80000 node [02:40]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [02:40]
mircea_popescu anyway plenty of nodes stuck on 367885 it seems [02:42]
punkman asciilifeform: did you just get an alternate 367886? [02:42]
asciilifeform punkman: not accepted [02:43]
punkman err I meant 367851 [02:43]
punkman why does it reorg? [02:43]
mircea_popescu trying connection 195.211.154.159:8333 lastseen=-371779.9hrs [02:46]
mircea_popescu connect() failed after select(): Connection refused [02:46]
mircea_popescu ftr. [02:46]
asciilifeform no shit [02:46]
asciilifeform i've been rebuilding it for the 3rd time now [02:46]
asciilifeform now running with mircea_popescu's constants [02:46]
asciilifeform as of 20 seconds ago. [02:47]
mircea_popescu i see you. [02:47]
asciilifeform ditto 'zoolag' [02:48]
asciilifeform i do not like this. any of it. [02:48]
mircea_popescu taci si suge. [02:49]
mircea_popescu dja know that joke ? [02:49]
BingoBoingo Oh, 80000 did not stay big enough very long [02:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: молчи и соси where i come from [02:49]
mircea_popescu little red riding hood and all ? [02:50]
asciilifeform received block 00000000000000000083 [02:50]
asciilifeform REORGANIZE [02:50]
asciilifeform connection timeout [02:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: of course ! [02:50]
mircea_popescu win. [02:50]
asciilifeform received block 00000000000000001139 [02:52]
asciilifeform REORGANIZE [02:52]
mircea_popescu version 99992 lol [02:54]
mircea_popescu that's not one of ours is it ? [02:54]
asciilifeform not mine ! [02:54]
* mike_c has quit () [02:54]
BingoBoingo version 99992 lol << What's the rest of the version? [02:54]
mircea_popescu pretty decent peer, lol. [02:54]
mircea_popescu claims height 367886 [02:55]
BingoBoingo Doesn't advertise version number? [02:55]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 2.102.154.131:54232 [02:55]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:55]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 82.130.102.211:55101 [02:55]
asciilifeform accepted connection 177.98.234.40:61451 [02:55]
asciilifeform accepted connection 71.10.186.176:35394 [02:55]
asciilifeform accepted connection 23.236.50.177:42924 [02:55]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:55]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 23.236.50.177:42924 [02:55]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:55]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 71.10.186.176:35394 [02:56]
mircea_popescu ... [02:56]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:56]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 177.98.234.40:61451 [02:56]
asciilifeform accepted connection 128.199.191.82:33957 [02:56]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:56]
asciilifeform disconnecting node 128.199.191.82:33957 [02:56]
asciilifeform accepted connection 130.211.127.4:54148 [02:56]
asciilifeform socket closed [02:56]
asciilifeform ^^^^ usg sinkholing ftw [02:56]
asciilifeform zoolag is at 367887 [02:56]
asciilifeform synced [02:56]
mircea_popescu im pretty certain said magic numbers actually make it impossible for a block to be crafted legally and still crash your bdb, soi there's that. [02:57]
mircea_popescu can't run such on a tiny system tho, obv. [02:57]
asciilifeform i'm not seeing any increase in baseline footprint [02:57]
mircea_popescu iirc bdb just makes assumptions about what memory it may allocate and dies at the later time if they get contradicted [02:58]
mircea_popescu so you wouldn't see it now. [02:58]
mircea_popescu whjy use static buffers when one can be a danger to the system [02:58]
BingoBoingo version 99992 lol << Was me. Since I dumped that debug.log took it down to rebuild with new identity. [02:59]
mircea_popescu o it was ? [03:00]
asciilifeform another interesting discovery: when the 'socket closed' wedge state is in progress, 'getinfo' rpc wedges [03:00]
asciilifeform for potentially infinite time [03:00]
mircea_popescu it would [03:00]
asciilifeform (CRITICAL_SECTION_I_AM_A_WINBLOWZ_USING_TARD()) [03:00]
mircea_popescu wut ? [03:01]
asciilifeform thing's full of'em [03:01]
mircea_popescu lol [03:01]
asciilifeform get stuck in one, and all threads perma-wedge [03:01]
asciilifeform like a 'python' proggy. [03:01]
mircea_popescu it'll be indeed a hard task to explain to one's grandkids to what end does bitcoind actyually use threading [03:03]
BingoBoingo Fuck it. Imma report a whole number version this time [03:04]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000139.html [03:06]
assbot [BTC-dev] (CORRECTED) Bullet in the Forehead for the BDB Locks Idiocy ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWNo0i ) [03:06]
asciilifeform ^ achtung, panzers! [03:06]
mircea_popescu in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/55ea021f780d943cafd61a05a2cc2412/tumblr_n2bykb7IEI1rpyus3o1_1280.jpg [03:07]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWNsx2 ) [03:07]
asciilifeform zoolag is synced and operates normally [03:08]
asciilifeform 367888 [03:08]
asciilifeform dulap is in nsa hell [03:08]
asciilifeform once we have hard peering (~never-disconnectable~, encrypted links between trunk nodes) this kind of thing will go away. [03:08]
asciilifeform The Supernode Lifestyle ! (TM) (R) (rpietilla) [03:09]
mircea_popescu lawls [03:10]
asciilifeform 'A gloomy ass one morning said / Unto his mate of board and bed: / "I am so dumb, you are so dumb, / Let us seek death together, come!" / As it turned out (and often will), / The two are blithely living still.' (c. morgenstern, engl. transl. of w. arndt) [03:13]
BingoBoingo lol bc.i fixed their shit and got constipated again [03:15]
mircea_popescu because they're running "the newest version" which "always works". in the sense of not. [03:15]
* BingoBoingo forgot that when you change versioning this whole thing wants rebuilt again [03:15]
mircea_popescu whereas proper bitcoin as released by actual foundation doth in fact always work. [03:15]
BingoBoingo I just have to wonder what idiocy is going to break everything the first weekend of September [03:17]
BingoBoingo This is 2 months in a row. Not quite a pattern, but almost one [03:18]
mircea_popescu i gotta confess watching the idjits squirm is kinda fun. [03:18]
* pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:19]
BingoBoingo It really is. And who of all people would have suspected I'd be around and find a problem on a Friday night. [03:19]
BingoBoingo !up pete_dushenski [03:19]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [03:19]
asciilifeform 'The Air once threatened to expire. / "Oh help me, help, celestial Sire," / She cried with sadly clouded gaze; "I'm stupid, torpid, in a daze, / You always know a way, Papa, / Send me on cruises, to a spa, / sour milk is counseled for the skin... / If not -- I'll call the Devil in!" / The Lord, not to be shamed by Air, / Invented "sound massage" for her. / We've had since then the world that SCREAMS. / And Air just rolls in it [03:19]
asciilifeform and beams.' [03:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, im bringing the original node back on to help along. [03:20]
pete_dushenski heyyo. thx BingoBoingo [03:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i thought it was perma-wedged [03:20]
* Duffer1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [03:20]
mircea_popescu no, it was wedged to allow study of the wedge point. [03:20]
pete_dushenski so eatblock handled the magick fuzz block [03:21]
BingoBoingo electawedge [03:21]
mircea_popescu pretty much. [03:21]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: There's a second one a bit later [03:21]
asciilifeform 367890 (zoolag) [03:23]
asciilifeform anyone who is wedged - straight there. [03:23]
BingoBoingo Unwedged [03:24]
* felipelalli has quit (Quit: Leaving) [03:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.000537 = 6.3366 BTC [+] [03:28]
asciilifeform dulap unwedged. [03:28]
mircea_popescu fun times. [03:31]
BingoBoingo Oh, this really upped my RAM usage [03:31]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i see no such [03:32]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: are you still using a random phoundation turd instead of therealbitcoin for your measurements ? [03:33]
mircea_popescu he was on 7.2 iirc [03:33]
BingoBoingo Random turd. Could be OpenBSD memory handling weird [03:33]
mircea_popescu lol now my node is getting teh silent intertubes treatment [03:34]
mircea_popescu we really should spring for better tubes, huh alf. [03:34]
asciilifeform 367892 [03:34]
* btcdrak (uid52049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnwilanjhnujjgcc) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:34]
asciilifeform ^ i'm 2 blox ahead of 'blockchain.info' [03:34]
asciilifeform (zoolag) [03:34]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha. [03:35]
BingoBoingo 367892 as well [03:35]
mircea_popescu i dunno where erryone else shops for intertubes that work [03:35]
asciilifeform at the very least, ought to have ciphered 24/7 circuits between the reptilia supernodez [03:35]
* pete_dushenski has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [03:35]
BingoBoingo At least I killed the orphanages earlier this week [03:35]
* BingoBoingo went from fairly stable 224-236 MB of ram usage to a very flat 986 MB the very flat makes me suspect OpenBSD weird [03:37]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: much depends on mempool [03:37]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i routinely see factor of 3-7 variations between my nodez [03:38]
BingoBoingo most of my debug.log is not allowing shit into mempool because insufficient fee [03:38]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i suspect obds SANE. ie, it forces the allocation. [03:38]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo i suspect obds SANE. ie, it forces the allocation. << It does for most things. [03:39]
mircea_popescu if my suspect is true, this very neatly shows openbsd as a superior os. [03:39]
mircea_popescu in this particular case, allocation should be forced. [03:40]
* jnpn has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [03:40]
BingoBoingo Well malloc() tends to aggressively try to keep shit from running into each other [03:40]
mircea_popescu malloc or any other mechanism has no way out of "gimme 900mb" "only 600 here" "but you promised" [03:40]
* pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/petedushenski/x-33397628) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: malloc is dumb as ox : either ptr to the 900, or null. [03:41]
asciilifeform nothing more to it [03:41]
mircea_popescu right you are. [03:41]
mircea_popescu "gimme 900mb" "null" "but you promised" [03:41]
asciilifeform 'wat,no i didn't' [03:42]
mircea_popescu exactly. [03:42]
mircea_popescu but bdb has come to expect! [03:42]
asciilifeform accepted connection 108.45.93.76:54753 [03:43]
asciilifeform PROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND [03:43]
asciilifeform ^ l0lzies [03:43]
BingoBoingo up to 989.4 MB so well within the pre-patching wiggle room. [03:44]
* pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [03:45]
scoopbot_revived New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/ [03:45]
BingoBoingo With the rest of my stuff running atm I'm almose using 1/3 of my RAM for the first time since I've moved to OpenBSD [03:45]
* twixisowned (~skdsfhshf@59.9.212.38) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:47]
asciilifeform dulap synced [03:47]
BingoBoingo http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-5.7/man3/calloc.3?query=malloc&sec=3&manpath=OpenBSD-5.7 [03:47]
assbot OpenBSD manual pages ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uek2C1 ) [03:47]
BingoBoingo OBSD does the probably placebo ASLR thing for better or worse [03:48]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: your qntra piece contains mistake. 80000 sufficed for all of three minutes. [03:50]
asciilifeform (~1 block or so) [03:50]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I made it further, but I also started 80000 sooner [03:50]
* trixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [03:50]
BingoBoingo And since reddit does not want Qntra's bounty of information https://voat.co/v/bitcoin/comments/365629 [03:54]
assbot Checking your bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1UekNuL ) [03:54]
cazalla same mods there as /r/bitcoin BingoBoingo? [04:01]
BingoBoingo cazalla: Just one in common that I know of. [04:01]
BingoBoingo Seems just as much of a shithole really [04:07]
* Guest29865 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [04:19]
BingoBoingo Oh and Qntra is now at 707 posts. It is now the biggest place a nuclear reactor housing can be expected to survive. [04:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.0005265 = 7.6079 BTC [-] [04:21]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2471 @ 0.0005265 = 1.301 BTC [-] [04:28]
* mius_ (~mius@unaffiliated/mius) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:39]
* mius_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:39]
* mius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [04:41]
* yamaka (~yamaka@unaffiliated/yamaka) has left #bitcoin-assets [04:48]
cazalla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnS-05XoXs4 [04:51]
assbot Smokémon - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SR9gPw ) [04:51]
shinohai http://i.moderniy.com/images/2015/07/26/sguF0i6.jpg <<< now I'm awake [04:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IAApoq ) [04:56]
shinohai kudos BingoBoingo for being prolific on qntra this week, I have had plenty to read. [05:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2057 @ 0.0005265 = 1.083 BTC [-] [05:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00051791 = 10.4877 BTC [-] {3} [05:40]
* mius (~mius@unaffiliated/mius) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00052346 = 1.8321 BTC [+] [05:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22182 @ 0.00051121 = 11.3397 BTC [-] [06:09]
* trixisowned (~skdsfhshf@184-96-35-163.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:14]
* twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [06:17]
* shovel_boss (~shovel_bo@unaffiliated/shovel-boss/x-4881665) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:20]
shinohai http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/crypto-activists-announce-vision-for-tor-exit-relay-in-every-library/ <<< yeah, let's encourage people to use a tor node located in a place that are generally funded by guv'ments. [06:27]
assbot Crypto activists announce vision for Tor exit relay in every library | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dguuow ) [06:27]
cazalla https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/07/29/executive-order-creating-national-strategic-computing-initiative [06:45]
assbot Executive Order -- Creating a National Strategic Computing Initiative | whitehouse.gov ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgvXel ) [06:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14643 @ 0.00052346 = 7.665 BTC [+] [06:53]
* mius_ (~mius@unaffiliated/mius) has joined #bitcoin-assets [07:00]
* mius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [07:01]
kakobrekla was this posted before? transistorless memory coming up supposedly; http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2015/07/28/intel-and-micron-produce-breakthrough-memory-technology [07:14]
assbot Intel and Micron Produce Breakthrough Memory Technology ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgyGVd ) [07:14]
jurov http://paralleluniver.se would be spiffy if she ever does stuff for eulora [07:23]
assbot Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dgzx8z ) [07:23]
jurov http://paralleluniver.se/post/109405235210 << already 3d model of mircea_popescu [07:24]
assbot Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgzyJq ) [07:24]
jurov http://paralleluniver.se/post/87004177465 hehehe [07:25]
assbot Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgzERf ) [07:25]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [07:27]
shinohai Evidently I need opengl before I can install Eulora [07:28]
* assbot gives voice to chetty [07:38]
chetty http://paralleluniver.se/post/109405235210 << already 3d model of mircea_popescu// hahaha I love it [07:39]
assbot Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgzyJq ) [07:39]
chetty Evidently I need opengl before I can install Eulora// yup [07:39]
shinohai needs moar scowl [07:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00051428 = 16.2512 BTC [-] [07:41]
* tripleslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [07:53]
Adlai shinohai: or an emacs/ncurses/framebuffer client [07:56]
shinohai I know dick about emacs :/ [07:56]
Adlai someday even alf will be able to play eulora on his http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2014#927000 [07:57]
assbot Logged on 17-11-2014 22:04:44; asciilifeform: drm glasses << http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752 (scroll down to story) [07:57]
* Anonym0us (d9c4c7d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.217.196.199.215) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:14]
* Anonym0us has quit (Client Quit) [08:15]
* shovel_boss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [08:33]
* Anonym0us (d9c4c7d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.217.196.199.215) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:33]
shinohai !up Anonym0us [08:38]
* assbot gives voice to Anonym0us [08:38]
Anonym0us tnx for voice :) [08:39]
shinohai np, register your GPG key with assbot and you can voice yourself [08:39]
* letstrythis (491f4486@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.31.68.134) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:40]
Anonym0us someone has this nick :/ [08:40]
* Anonym0us is now known as PabloEscobar [08:41]
punkman shinohai: it doesn't work like that [08:41]
shinohai well punkman i know he has to get into wot [08:42]
PabloEscobar how is the syntax for registering ? [08:42]
punkman !help [08:42]
assbot http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot [08:42]
PabloEscobar !help [08:42]
assbot http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot [08:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34177 @ 0.00052742 = 18.0256 BTC [+] {2} [08:45]
Adlai deedbot-: : http://dpaste.com/03VBY7N.txt [08:51]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MZuGZ4 ) [08:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00051221 = 12.4979 BTC [-] {4} [08:51]
shinohai I am going to need a dedicated box if I intend to play Eulora. Any suggestions? [08:52]
* Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:52]
* Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [08:54]
chetty shinohai, join the #eulora chan, best ask folks with experience so far :) [08:57]
shinohai I'm so retarded. I shulda known there was a dedi chan [08:58]
chetty :P [08:58]
* PabloEscobar has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [08:58]
Adlai no, you're retarted for not reading the logs [08:59]
shinohai I usually ignore/skip things to do with eulora. Only began to take an interest recently and started to search logs. [09:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00052256 = 3.684 BTC [+] [09:28]
* Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:31]
* Hasimir has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [09:42]
* diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:42]
* CheckDavid (uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gkpzwxrpqewoxulm) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:47]
* shovel_boss (~shovel_bo@unaffiliated/shovel-boss/x-4881665) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:54]
* PeterL (~peterl@unaffiliated/peterl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:00]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [10:01]
* Hasimir (~hfenring@unaffiliated/hasimir) has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:23]
* shovel_boss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:29]
* Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:37]
mircea_popescu bwaha jurov that kicks ass [10:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00052256 = 17.3751 BTC [+] [10:49]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla interesting. tho i don't get enough from that article to figure out how the fuck it'd work [10:49]
mircea_popescu "Following more than a decade of research and development, 3D XPoint technology was built from the ground up to address the need for non-volatile, high-performance, high-endurance and high-capacity storage and memory at an affordable cost." [10:51]
mircea_popescu i mean what the shit is this even. [10:51]
mircea_popescu i thought it was built from the clouds down, honestly. [10:51]
mircea_popescu thanks intel for setting my heresy straight. [10:51]
kakobrekla dunno but apparently they have working wafers [10:51]
mircea_popescu !up letstrythis [10:52]
-assbot- You voiced letstrythis for 30 minutes. [10:52]
* assbot gives voice to letstrythis [10:52]
mircea_popescu good for 'em... i wonder if this is the glass thing being discussed for the past year [10:52]
mircea_popescu only real clue being the "non volatile" part [10:53]
kakobrekla good part seems to be that you can manipulate a single bit unlike flash. [10:56]
mircea_popescu seems mindblowing, non volatile yet non rom. [10:57]
mircea_popescu anyway. [10:57]
mircea_popescu oh this is resistive memory. [11:03]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:04]
mircea_popescu prolly hafnium oxide, which should make the world situation ever more interesting. [11:04]
mircea_popescu this century will be the rare earths century. [11:04]
mircea_popescu (brazil and australia pretty much own the known hf supply atm). in any case, pretty fucking weird that goldbugs and silverheads still insist with their "precious" metals. they're useless. pm freaks of 2015 really should collect hf. cerium. lanthanum. europium. etc. [11:12]
decimation gold makes excellent electrical contacts [11:14]
mircea_popescu europium phosphates for instance are still to this day the only way to get a decent red. [11:14]
decimation silver is pointless as a monetary metal - too common with too many reserves [11:14]
mircea_popescu except electric contacts are not really where the cut lies atm. optic interactions (hence hafnium - ever seen an ingot with the microflim effect btw ?) [11:14]
mircea_popescu and dielectric properties. [11:14]
mircea_popescu those are the two main things. [11:14]
mircea_popescu prolly should say "dielectric secondary properties". [11:15]
decimation yes, this is true. you need a supply of gold for electronics certainly, but it need not be huge [11:15]
mircea_popescu and it need not be gold. [11:15]
mircea_popescu for instance - platinum's even better. [11:15]
decimation yeah you can use aluminium to bond wires [11:16]
decimation silver too [11:16]
mircea_popescu or doctored graphite [11:16]
mircea_popescu it's just not a bottleneck atm. sure, maybe it will become. who knew, in the 60s, that mountain pass thing in pasadena would be the most strategically important place in all the us. [11:16]
* PeterL has quit (Quit: PeterL) [11:16]
decimation apparently palladium coated copper is used too [11:16]
decimation gold is nice because it doesn't oxidize, just sits [11:17]
mircea_popescu sure, nice. [11:17]
mircea_popescu meanwhile every time china cuts quotas, the futures go into 10x explosions. [11:17]
decimation http://www.pcworld.com/article/214938/us_rare_earth_mine_resumes_active_mining.html [11:18]
assbot U.S. Rare Earth Mine Resumes Active Mining | PCWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1fSPNRO ) [11:18]
mircea_popescu and you simply can't beat a value proposition like "either have europium or not be able to display the color red - it's that simple". [11:18]
mircea_popescu mmmyeah. [11:19]
decimation http://www.molycorp.com/products [11:20]
mircea_popescu iirc obama even whined at the wtc about china rare earth policy [11:20]
assbot Molycorp | Our Products ... ( http://bit.ly/1fSQ1IJ ) [11:20]
mircea_popescu they laughed at him. [11:20]
mircea_popescu somehow his international relations failures when being humiliated by putin in public are widely discussed [11:20]
mircea_popescu but his much more important failures when trying to preserve soime sort of future for that country get ignored throughout. [11:20]
mircea_popescu a well. [11:20]
mircea_popescu nobody yet wanted to be africa and failed to get its wish. [11:21]
decimation yarvin pointed out the amusing contrast between the us wanting to de-africanize africa and the chinese wanting to take its minerals [11:22]
decimation it seems the chinese approach is working out better for both parties [11:22]
* assbot removes voice from letstrythis [11:23]
mircea_popescu i guess alf's observation re kalash bullets, copper and izhevsk is so difficult to grok and utterly advanced people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that copper's not really the only superiority metal. [11:23]
mircea_popescu decimation soon to come to a strip mine/mall near you! [11:23]
mircea_popescu actually... [11:24]
decimation you can watch the california rare earth mine in operation! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id8hDUT5nHQ&list=UU96FUEp85Kk0PdKd9hp8jww [11:24]
assbot New California Rare Earth Facility Ramping Up Production - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fSQH0M ) [11:24]
mircea_popescu strip/mine/mall. what eat/pray/love. [11:24]
decimation WE R ENERGY EFFICIENT [11:24]
decimation it looks like it was built to golden toilet standards, it'll be interesting to see how profitable it is [11:25]
mircea_popescu it is actually not unreasonable to overspend on sustainability when building a mine. [11:26]
decimation the challenge with rare earths isn't finding them or digging them up, it's sorting them and processing them [11:26]
decimation well, the us has lots of experience with blotted landscapes due to mining [11:26]
mircea_popescu yes. the fact that they can't currently be extracted efficiently from electronics scrap speaks volumes. [11:26]
mircea_popescu otherwise ocean extraction would almost be practicable. [11:26]
mircea_popescu the trawlers that pretty much took all the fish, 1965-2015 can be refurbished to suck out the rare earths too, 2015-2065. [11:27]
decimation heh, or if we go 'full fission' U also [11:27]
mircea_popescu i doubt you'll ever be able to put up your gf's butt something that was inside a reactor core during your lifetime. [11:28]
decimation yeah, it's one of those 'we could safely use nuclear to supply electricty to everyone but we don't because reasons' situation [11:29]
mircea_popescu uhh [11:29]
mircea_popescu well in this case the reasons seem to be more like, "because it will kill you painfully." [11:29]
decimation heh no [11:29]
decimation who died because of fukashima? [11:29]
mircea_popescu you're not serious are yo u? [11:30]
decimation yes, who died? [11:30]
decimation fission is by far the safest method of electricity production [11:31]
mircea_popescu is this a rehash of the entire russian song and dance about how "nobody died at chernobyl" ? [11:31]
mircea_popescu at least a dozen people died the first week. [11:31]
mircea_popescu you know, just because japan's a colony and ukraine a colony of "the enemy" doesn [11:32]
mircea_popescu 't make usg's shit not stink somehow, magically. [11:32]
punkman no "official" deaths [11:32]
decimation okay [11:32]
mircea_popescu but i will note for jurov's benefit exactly what the differences are between his great friend to the east and his great friend to the west. [11:32]
decimation http://www.withouthotair.com/c24/page_168.shtml < figure 24.11 shows death rates of electricity generation technologies [11:33]
assbot Ch 24 Page 168: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBxeNw ) [11:33]
mircea_popescu fission may well be the safest method of electricity production. that's not in discussion. a large part of WHY it is the safest involves not sticking bits of a reactor core inside you. [11:34]
decimation eh, as long it's just a little bit you'll be okay [11:34]
mircea_popescu (i have the math done on the difference between being exposed to a meltdown outside and being exposed to ingested material, if the obvious difference's aren't obvious i can dig it up) [11:34]
mircea_popescu but it boils down to the simple fact that if you're a mile away your share of the sphere surface is tiny, whereas if you're surrounding the item, your share's 100%. distance is a much better insulator than mass, because distance goes into the formula ^3. and consequently you're better off a mile away from a ton's worth of criticality than with a gram of the stuff in your colon. [11:36]
decimation sure, but meanwhile all waste products are captured rather than being dumped into the atmosphere [11:36]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 1600^3 / 1000^2 [11:36]
gribble Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. [11:36]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 1600**3 / 1000**2 [11:37]
gribble 4096 [11:37]
mircea_popescu 4kb times better off, to be specific. [11:37]
mircea_popescu decimation the idea was that somehow you create the hafnium you use in your laptop through a fission process that happened during your lifetime. [11:37]
mircea_popescu that's what i was answering to. [11:37]
decimation ah yes that's a different matter [11:37]
decimation probably not gonna happen [11:38]
mircea_popescu right. [11:38]
decimation I was pointing out that if you are gonna such halfnium from seawater, might as well get some U too [11:38]
mircea_popescu that's all i was saying really. making your own rare metals may work, but it won't be this century. [11:38]
mircea_popescu oh oh. [11:38]
mircea_popescu then i misunderstood what you were proposing. [11:38]
mircea_popescu i thought you wanted it made the only way we know how to create elements atm. [11:38]
decimation because of this chart: http://www.withouthotair.com/c24/page_164.shtml [11:39]
assbot Ch 24 Page 164: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBynV6 ) [11:39]
decimation he's point is that you could suply 420 kWh per day per person in the entire world if you mined oceanic uranium and used fast breeders to maximally extract energy from it [11:40]
mircea_popescu the x per day bla bla figure is spurious. obviously there's a shitton of energy there. the problem is we don't yet have the filters. [11:40]
mircea_popescu but yes, perhaps getting there. [11:40]
decimation it's the only technology that (mostly) exists that could possibly give a 'european' level of energy use to the entire world [11:41]
mircea_popescu this "from the clouds down" approach... who cares about "the entire world", srsly ? [11:42]
decimation heh well yeah. ultimately he's kinda a libertard [11:42]
* CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [11:42]
mircea_popescu anyway. i always thought all the work in fine graphite fibers is really intended to do this, eventually. [11:43]
decimation yes, 'buckyball' strands were supposed to be the next big thing [11:43]
mircea_popescu but in all fairness this thing, while in principle promising, is mroe than a few tweaks away. [11:44]
BingoBoingo yes, 'buckyball' strands were supposed to be the next big thing << Turns out lots are easy to make already, start a wood fire. [11:44]
mircea_popescu meanwhile buying a kilogram bar of non radioactive rare earth metal is perfectly feasible as-is. [11:44]
decimation yes, not such a bad idea [11:47]
decimation if you are going with industrial usefuless, palladium or pt are also good metals to hold [11:47]
mircea_popescu my concern was more cultural, so to speak. here are these dudes, maybe 100k of them, all heads counted. they're mostly over 50 white men, who have for 30 years been buying and hoping. [11:49]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, during THAT EXACT INTERVAL, this set of 10-20 metals did EXACTLY what they had hoped their dead horse would do. [11:49]
mircea_popescu went up what, 10x a decade. easy. [11:50]
mircea_popescu yet somehow in their minds the idea doesn't form that... hello ? anyone home ? [11:50]
mircea_popescu it's pretty interesting a phenomenon. [11:50]
* contrapumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:52]
decimation yeah it's a good point. gold is double-edged because it's the thing everyone else is warehousing [11:54]
* copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [11:54]
decimation which is good in the sense of 'could be traded' but bad in the sense of 'oh noes they are dumping onto the market' [11:54]
asciilifeform 'dulap' and 'zoolag' synced still. [11:56]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220735 << mram is 1) available from my usual suppliers for several years now 2) rather boring on account of costing considerably more than sram+eeprom+supercap+fallbackcontroller [11:58]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:00:05; mircea_popescu: oh this is resistive memory. [11:58]
decimation asciilifeform: my poor node is only at 343k, seems to be syncing very slowly [11:59]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220737 << aaah no, that was the 20th. this one will be the ~lack of rare earths~ century. [11:59]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:01:46; mircea_popescu: this century will be the rare earths century. [11:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00053654 = 22.3201 BTC [+] {3} [11:59]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220733 << again, sop, for ages. [12:00]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 13:54:11; mircea_popescu: seems mindblowing, non volatile yet non rom. [12:00]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220742 << i don't expect to live to see an ingot of hafnium in person. [12:00]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:11:44; mircea_popescu: except electric contacts are not really where the cut lies atm. optic interactions (hence hafnium - ever seen an ingot with the microflim effect btw ?) [12:00]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220748 << mno. you need the ductility, for ic bonding wires [12:01]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:12:51; mircea_popescu: for instance - platinum's even better. [12:01]
decimation asciilifeform: you can buy here (Hf) http://www.mateck.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=25&Itemid=3 [12:02]
assbot Hafnium ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBC0KS ) [12:02]
decimation 486 eurobux for 100g in pieces [12:02]
asciilifeform not 100g of Hf [12:02]
asciilifeform (do the arithmetic) [12:03]
asciilifeform at any rate, i am not equipped to test its purity (certainly not non-destructively !) [12:03]
decimation they claim 99.9% [12:03]
asciilifeform this is why au has been a thing since ancient egypt - can test with almost bare hands, and refine with almost bare hands [12:03]
decimation ^ [12:04]
asciilifeform this is what makes it 'bitcoin-like' [12:04]
decimation as long as you are willing to melt it [12:04]
asciilifeform go, test the hafnium. [12:04]
asciilifeform !s gallium [12:04]
assbot 27 results for 'gallium' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gallium [12:04]
asciilifeform ^ element that is even more testable for purity with bare hands than au [12:04]
decimation platium & palladium need 3k F furnace [12:05]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220820 << you know, you ~can~ separate out the stable isotopes. [12:08]
scoopbot_revived Short Term Update: headed to $255 https://btctrading.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/short-term-update-headed-to-255/ [12:08]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:35:30; mircea_popescu: that's all i was saying really. making your own rare metals may work, but it won't be this century. [12:08]
asciilifeform (see also the old reactor gold thread) [12:08]
decimation yeah, but probably not economically [12:09]
asciilifeform not gold, no [12:09]
asciilifeform but rare earths - quite possibly. [12:09]
asciilifeform the incentive for vendor to lie about this, is, obviously, there. but on other hand, if it functions as part of a semiconductor, it more or less ~has~ to be radiologically clean! [12:10]
asciilifeform thinkaboutit [12:10]
decimation actually this is a side-effect of ramping up fission - it would increase the supply of random shit coming out of the reactor to study [12:10]
asciilifeform has to be ramped up soviet-style - with whiners told to go fuck a duck - rather than usg-style, where they somberly bury the spent rods in a coffin, with christian funeral [12:11]
decimation heh [12:11]
asciilifeform (then to have'em slowly leak into ground water somewhere) [12:11]
decimation yes, this is true, although I would prefer us safety record [12:11]
decimation asciilifeform: my understanding that the "U" dry storage casks are specially designed to be put into 'fast breeder' - for a time when usg comes to its sense [12:12]
asciilifeform u.s. safety record of the final collapse period will quite likely make the su one look rather good in comparison. [12:12]
mircea_popescu in fairness it hasn't been studied too much yet. who knows. [12:13]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220842 << paging tlp! the au folks aren't trying to win, they are trying to 'feel winners' [12:13]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:47:17; mircea_popescu: yet somehow in their minds the idea doesn't form that... hello ? anyone home ? [12:13]
mircea_popescu but yes. the us is not only just as inclined to outright lie as the su was, it's also blessed with the gift of suck in the shape of a purely imbecile population. [12:13]
asciilifeform they imagine an aucalypse where their coinz are now the only valuable thing testable with your teeth, and thereby True Money (tm) [12:14]
mircea_popescu the "resistance through culture" intellectuals still did a lot to mitigate the sort of damage discussed here [12:14]
asciilifeform american reactors are still, for instance, built in such a way as to be helpless in the face of a total shortage of diesel [12:15]
asciilifeform (laugh, but they depend on external current, which - in the event of interruption of the steam turbine, for whatever reason - is supplied with a diesel set) [12:16]
mircea_popescu "designed by americans" is quickly becoming the english equivalent of "marfa romaneasca" [12:16]
mircea_popescu not merely shit, but shit that's been trampled by monkeys. [12:17]
decimation there are american nuclear fission designs that depend only on gravity to stop reactions [12:17]
decimation they just aren't allowed to be built [12:17]
asciilifeform the heart of the matter is that these things were built by folks who simply did not believe in collapse even as a theoretical possibility. [12:17]
asciilifeform it shows. [12:17]
asciilifeform decimation: aha. in uncle al's words, 'It Would Be Wrong!' [12:18]
asciilifeform in precisely the same way as a cpu where buffer overflows don't happen [12:18]
asciilifeform or a plastic for implants that is invisible to immune system (an uncle al product that was magicked out of existence by u.s. fda) [12:19]
asciilifeform It Would Be Wrong, because Simply Not Done [12:19]
asciilifeform (because would disenfranchise and correctly lower into pederasty whole armies of human turds) [12:19]
decimation https://nuclear.gepower.com/build-a-plant/products/nuclear-power-plants-overview/esbwr.html [12:20]
assbot ESBWR (Economic Simplified Boiling Water Reactor) | GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBELM3 ) [12:20]
decimation who knows about its actual record in the field [12:20]
decimation but you are right, it could have been built 30 years ago instead of what we have today [12:20]
asciilifeform http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/01/asia/bitcoin-mt-gox-karpeles-arrested << lulzies [12:23]
assbot Mt.Gox CEO Mark Karpeles arrested in Japan - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBFoVV ) [12:23]
decimation actually I bet a large number of existing plants could be converted over to this design [12:24]
decimation but that ain't gonna happen because it would cause $bil in paperwork to be generated [12:24]
trinque bahaha, fuck you Karpeles [12:28]
trinque gimme my 3.7 BTC you cunt [12:29]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220771 << the main 'superiority metal' is: people whose hands grow out of some place other than their arses! one can make shells - and even very passable bullets, for small arms, out of even nylon. [12:29]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 14:20:38; mircea_popescu: i guess alf's observation re kalash bullets, copper and izhevsk is so difficult to grok and utterly advanced people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that copper's not really the only superiority metal. [12:29]
asciilifeform (they exist! can buy'em here.) [12:29]
decimation yes, the most lulzy thing about 'goldbug preppers' is their choice of a pile of metal vice actual people to help them in a time of need [12:31]
asciilifeform this, to be fair, is not usually a 'choice' [12:32]
asciilifeform get pile of metal - easy; get people - hard, for some - impossible [12:33]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:42]
* contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [12:42]
* contrapumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:48]
* copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [12:49]
mircea_popescu lol cnn quotes qntra or what [12:54]
mircea_popescu "they found it on teh intertnet" [12:54]
asciilifeform who was it who lifted a piece wholesale? 'forbes' ? [12:55]
asciilifeform whatever came of that [12:55]
mircea_popescu same thing that came out of the "hey, you're defrauding maryland u" email. [12:55]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-04-2015#1085971 [12:55]
assbot Logged on 03-04-2015 04:14:29; mircea_popescu: cazalla write to the author and to forbes editor, tell them they can either publish a fix or else i sue. [12:55]
mircea_popescu id est : nothing ~yet~. [12:55]
asciilifeform and as i said then, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1085974 [12:56]
assbot Logged on 03-04-2015 04:15:38; asciilifeform: will be magicked away with magic rays. [12:56]
mircea_popescu nothing gets "magicked away with magic rays". they can shove their hands in ears all the way to the elbow, i'm getting all my pounds of flesh. [12:57]
asciilifeform well, the maryland folks landed a few $mil in grantola straight from usg treasury [12:57]
asciilifeform they are saints now, from the point of view of state of md. [12:57]
mircea_popescu up until they aren't. [12:57]
asciilifeform as of now, their shit not only doesn't stink, but is made of monocrystalline diamond as far as the dean is concerned [12:58]
mircea_popescu up until it... isn't. [12:58]
mircea_popescu very precarious, all this. [12:58]
asciilifeform all living things 'are until they aren't' [12:58]
mircea_popescu right. [12:59]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000139.html << thanks all for helping with this lastnight [13:08]
assbot [BTC-dev] (CORRECTED) Bullet in the Forehead for the BDB Locks Idiocy ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWNo0i ) [13:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22533 @ 0.00053552 = 12.0669 BTC [-] [13:08]
BingoBoingo u.s. safety record of the final collapse period will quite likely make the su one look rather good in comparison. << Calloway County plant in Missouri has made the news number of times this year for shutdowns related to declared non-radiological steam leaks. [13:15]
BingoBoingo On the other hand Bridgeton Missouri landfill which has perma underground fire spewing radio weird makes news [13:17]
* erg_ (ce7bc408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.123.196.8) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:19]
BingoBoingo !up erg_ [13:21]
scoopbot_revived Qntra (S.QNTR) July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-july-2015-statement/ [13:21]
* assbot gives voice to erg_ [13:21]
jurov u.s. safety record will differ from su only cuz media coverage [13:21]
mircea_popescu nah, media coverage is the point of most similarity. [13:23]
mircea_popescu both pravdas lying through the teeth turned up to 11. [13:23]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:23]
mircea_popescu the main point of difference is that the soviets at least had some still functional brainparts. [13:23]
BingoBoingo Also US really doesn't do much in the way of putting spent fuel in coffins, Tends to leave it swimming in pools, just outside of reactor housings [13:26]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [13:28]
* alpalp (6836eb1c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.54.235.28) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:33]
BingoBoingo !up alpalp [13:35]
* assbot gives voice to alpalp [13:36]
jurov afaik no one is really seriously depositing spent fuel deep into earth/oceans yet [13:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00051501 = 12.2057 BTC [-] {4} [13:45]
asciilifeform jurov: other than jp ! [13:45]
jurov really? pediwiki says "The head of the Science Council of Japan’s expert panel has said Japan's seismic conditions makes it difficult to predict ground conditions over the necessary 100,000 years, so it will be impossible to convince the public of the safety of deep geological disposal." [13:47]
asciilifeform jurov: in the ocean, rather [13:47]
asciilifeform a good bit is already in. [13:47]
asciilifeform at any rate, this is an ~engineered~ political problem. breeder reactor can be used to eliminate long-lived waste. [13:48]
asciilifeform But It Would Be Wrong (TM) [13:49]
* assbot removes voice from erg_ [13:51]
asciilifeform ;;later tell jurov was there ever a http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src but for the bleeding edge tree ? [13:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:52]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeOaUH ) [13:52]
jurov what is bleeding edge? [13:52]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000135.html [13:52]
assbot [BTC-dev] v0.5.4-TEST1 Pre-patched Test Bundle : Testers Needed! ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jt3hQe ) [13:52]
jurov okay [13:53]
shinohai http://thehackernews.com/2015/07/bitdefender-hacked.html?m=1 <<< hue [13:53]
assbot AntiVirus Firm BitDefender Hacked; Turns Out Stored Passwords Are UnEncrypted ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeOrqu ) [13:53]
BingoBoingo Bitcoin foundation is serious now, Has two branches [13:53]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: wai wut [13:53]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: jurov's original lxr has the naked 0.5.3 [13:54]
BingoBoingo The Bleeding branch and the stable one. [13:54]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: afaik there is no stable [13:54]
BingoBoingo Ah [13:54]
jurov no, i set it to 0/5/3/1 as default [13:54]
asciilifeform there is the original 0.5.3 which explodes a few hrs after boot.. [13:54]
jurov at least i think so [13:54]
* BingoBoingo contemplates DNS and IRC snip on his 0.7 branch, wonders how much his 0.7 will look like 0.5 if the cutting continues [13:56]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: remind me again, what was in 0.7 that is missing in 0.5.3.x [13:56]
asciilifeform importprivkey ? [13:56]
BingoBoingo getpeerinfo [13:57]
BingoBoingo But now I'm just sticking with 0.7 for the learns [13:57]
shinohai it's no big deal bitcoind doesn't have importprivkey to me [13:57]
asciilifeform shinohai: it's actually a pretty big deal to me [13:57]
BingoBoingo Herpity Derp Derp http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/#comment-36507 [13:57]
assbot New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBTiHF ) [13:57]
shinohai asciilifeform: u don't just add keys manually ? [13:58]
asciilifeform shinohai: manually ? [13:58]
asciilifeform how, with hex editor ? [13:58]
shinohai Using pywallet [13:58]
BingoBoingo pywallet isn't manually [13:58]
BingoBoingo Got to use hex editor on memory pages of running bitcoind [13:59]
shinohai hex editor feels clunkier to me :/ [13:59]
BingoBoingo Or you could tap the buttons on your computer's front panel [13:59]
jurov nah, point a gamma source toward ram [14:00]
BingoBoingo That works too [14:00]
BingoBoingo Gotta use a very fine source though, targets are very tiny [14:00]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17446 @ 0.0005363 = 9.3563 BTC [+] {3} [14:04]
mircea_popescu in other news, http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-july-2015-statement/ << eulora makes money for s.mg, sorta, and players take home a chunk of loot. [14:05]
assbot MiniGame (S.MG), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBUpHi ) [14:05]
* mod6 looks [14:06]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/#comment-36511 [14:06]
assbot New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBUueb ) [14:06]
* assbot removes voice from alpalp [14:06]
BingoBoingo thank you asciilifeform [14:08]
asciilifeform what's the latest on Luke-Jr anyway? who, precisely, does he muppet for [14:08]
BingoBoingo Seems to be since BFL typically still lower bidders [14:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the usual "i say words about words so please hire me" circus. [14:12]
asciilifeform wai wut, he wurks for a living ?!! [14:13]
mircea_popescu mostly doing pest control or i don't remember what nonsense. [14:14]
mircea_popescu something of the kind. [14:14]
asciilifeform pest control >> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ll2H1ZJE4vs/TvTXLY8xtkI/AAAAAAAAWVc/GAD54RgYia8/s1600/mainnaked.jpg [14:15]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeSdQM ) [14:15]
* asciilifeform invariably thinks of ^, 'naked lunch' [14:15]
mircea_popescu !seen pierre_rochard [14:15]
mircea_popescu ;;seen pierre_rochard [14:15]
gribble pierre_rochard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/fatpeoplehate2/ < that was fast [14:15]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell pierre_rochard I'm particularly curious to hear what you make of http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-july-2015-statement/#selection-379.202-379.283 [14:16]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:16]
assbot MiniGame (S.MG), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeSpzm ) [14:16]
asciilifeform btw, anyone feel like standing up a 'block explorer' gizmo based on therealbitcoin ? [14:17]
asciilifeform (or will this have to wait for my cloning and one of the clones to do it) [14:17]
mircea_popescu this could actually be a reasonably decent companion project. make a static html exporter companion for bitcoind [14:18]
asciilifeform aha [14:18]
shinohai asciilifeform: like an insight explorer? [14:18]
mircea_popescu then everyone running a node can run that too, if they run a webserver. [14:18]
asciilifeform not entirely related, [14:18]
mircea_popescu keep the css off, results in minimal pages. [14:18]
asciilifeform this is when i point out that someone has been playing with phuctor [14:18]
mircea_popescu if you can store 100gb of chain you can store 100mb of static html. [14:18]
shinohai I haz room [14:19]
asciilifeform the current gcd algo in use has a pretty obvious shortcoming: if there is a phuctored key, such that it is the only key with a given known factor, [14:19]
asciilifeform and dr. evil doesn't like it to be there, [14:19]
asciilifeform he can take said factor, multiply by a new prime, and poof [14:19]
asciilifeform it vanishes [14:19]
mircea_popescu huh ? [14:20]
scoopbot_revived MiniGame (S.MG), July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-july-2015-statement/ [14:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: because prior to gcd, we divide the product by the modulus, if the former is integer-divisible by the latter [14:21]
mircea_popescu ok.. [14:21]
asciilifeform this is to account for the modulus having been already submitted (if it has) [14:21]
asciilifeform but it can also have the effect of removing two factors from the product that were ~not~ part of a single modulus [14:22]
asciilifeform but rather, of two different ones. [14:22]
asciilifeform this is why the counter now shows 104 [14:22]
mircea_popescu well this isn't very smart then, is it. [14:22]
asciilifeform whereas at one point it showed 106. [14:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the pill against this is for phuctoring to register as ~an event~ [14:22]
mircea_popescu so it is. [14:22]
asciilifeform creating a permanent record. [14:22]
mircea_popescu would help rss too [14:22]
asciilifeform this is easily 10x the code [14:23]
asciilifeform and requires rechurning the entire db [14:23]
asciilifeform hence i have not had anything like the time to carry it out. [14:23]
mircea_popescu of course [14:23]
asciilifeform it is, however, in the pipe. [14:23]
mircea_popescu the shenanigans would come back out once a 2nd item is found [14:23]
asciilifeform the reason i mention it now, [14:23]
asciilifeform is that we ~have~ a permanent record. [14:23]
asciilifeform the #b-a log!! [14:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.000537 = 3.2489 BTC [+] [14:23]
mircea_popescu funny how that works. [14:24]
asciilifeform anyone wants to score an easy qntra, find us the 'lucky winner' [14:24]
asciilifeform who thought he could magick away a phuctored key [14:24]
asciilifeform https://archive.is/PWrdD [14:25]
assbot Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBXoj6 ) [14:25]
asciilifeform ^ today's [14:26]
asciilifeform aaaaand [14:28]
asciilifeform we have our winnerz [14:28]
asciilifeform http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB#F79436B629322C70C523BAA5BE0D3D4DDA011578F84122B8CA3ABD15C52A9567 [14:28]
assbot Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeUHyt ) [14:28]
asciilifeform http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542#105DED03AF97CA6EDB6C41B47B7947A3B987A055C2756723E9C5671609CADB38 [14:28]
* asciilifeform falls down laughing [14:28]
asciilifeform srsly, 'full spectrum dominance' idiots, you thought you would pull this off? [14:29]
mircea_popescu eh get out ? [14:29]
asciilifeform did they think i don't have a record of the submitted tailored moduli ? [14:29]
mircea_popescu you left the tank empty deliberately didn't you. [14:29]
mircea_popescu ips ? [14:29]
asciilifeform what did you think, mircea_popescu. [14:30]
mircea_popescu i think your stay in b-a has benefited you immensely :) [14:30]
* asciilifeform feeds squealing gnomes in cages, washes chopping block [14:30]
mircea_popescu aww. im sure it was just a researcher doing researching. [14:31]
asciilifeform these are just the two i found from naked eye inspection ! [14:31]
* SuchWow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [14:37]
trinque asciilifeform: nothing coming out of those links for me atm [14:40]
asciilifeform trinque: ddos [14:41]
trinque asciilifeform: are you the one weird trick they don't want me to know? [14:43]
asciilifeform l0lwut [14:44]
trinque just banter [14:44]
trinque common spam line [14:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00053735 = 1.5583 BTC [+] {3} [14:59]
BingoBoingo !b 6 [15:00]
assbot Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3SC42BZ.txt ) [15:00]
jurov !t m f.mpif [15:05]
assbot Um, shouldn't you be with your own tribe or somethin'? [15:05]
jurov !mpif [15:05]
assbot BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021519 B (Total: 427.54 B). Delta: 0.05 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+] [15:05]
mircea_popescu ahahaha nsa is down ? [15:09]
asciilifeform http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=12884901891+ [15:09]
assbot 17 results for '12884901891' - #bitcoin-assets search [15:09]
mircea_popescu 64 bytes from archive.today (195.211.154.159): icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=28.4 ms [15:10]
mircea_popescu seems fine [15:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is up. was doing some hefty db queries [15:10]
mod6 Thanks all for working lastnight to get the db locks issue resolved! I've got a new bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST2 bundle created. Patch added was `asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.patch'. Applies cleanly. All automated tests passed. [15:10]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/test-builds/v0.5.4/amd64/bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST2.tar.gz && http://thebitcoin.foundation/test-builds/v0.5.4/amd64/bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST2.tar.gz.sig [15:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWHUHv ) [15:10]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWHUHz ) [15:10]
mod6 Sending out updated email to ML now. [15:11]
asciilifeform neato mod6 [15:11]
* diana_coman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [15:11]
mod6 thanks again asciilifeform, much appreciated. [15:11]
mircea_popescu sweet mod6 [15:12]
* erg_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [15:13]
asciilifeform 66.249.75.214 - - [29/Jul/2015:19:06:47 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-" [15:14]
asciilifeform 66.249.75.222 - - [30/Jul/2015:02:24:46 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-" [15:14]
asciilifeform 66.249.75.206 - - [30/Jul/2015:08:31:05 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-" [15:14]
asciilifeform 66.249.75.222 - - [30/Jul/2015:14:21:36 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 502 172 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-" [15:14]
trinque asciilifeform: I can regenerate that lcov output later today; I found it a nice way to read the source [15:14]
asciilifeform ^ does 'google bot' ~always~ try to submit formz !?!! [15:14]
asciilifeform or just this one. [15:14]
trinque balls, I was scrolled up [15:14]
trinque anyhow, same goes [15:14]
trinque http://deedbot.org/stator-lcov/ << I'm not clear on why it split the output between "ourlibs" and the build directories [15:15]
assbot LCOV - coverage.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWI5T7 ) [15:15]
asciilifeform aaand [15:15]
mod6 Note To Ubuntu 10.04 Testers: I've added a list of install depedantcies to this email to help any build of this go more smoothly. GnuPG should be installed by default so you can check the sigs. [15:15]
asciilifeform 66.249.75.222 - - [30/Jul/2015:17:27:37 +0300] "GET /redo/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-" [15:15]
asciilifeform 66.249.75.214 - - [30/Jul/2015:23:24:28 +0300] "GET /redo/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542? HTTP/1.1" 302 351 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-" [15:15]
trinque also, I've noticed the same, quite common for attacking bots to claim "googlebot" [15:15]
asciilifeform because ahahahaha, i wouldn't notice, right. [15:15]
asciilifeform because everyone is a muppet ? [15:16]
trinque you're just being indexed, citizen [15:16]
asciilifeform they're in genuine ip space of that firm, fwiw [15:16]
mod6 Any other Linux OS Testers: Steps will be gathered soon and will be updating as that information becomes available. [15:16]
asciilifeform trinque: 'google' does not, as a matter of routine, push 'redo' button on every key [15:17]
asciilifeform (if it had, the thing would be more or less unusable) [15:17]
trinque asciilifeform: being entirely sarcastic [15:17]
asciilifeform l0l [15:17]
trinque I dunno that I've ever seen a POST from googlebot [15:17]
trinque I am actually going to grep some logs and see if I have [15:17]
trinque well those are GETs, so who knows [15:18]
asciilifeform and yes, i left 'redo' and reset-of-gcd-to-1 a thing for a reason [15:18]
asciilifeform because some folks think they are oh-so-clever. [15:18]
jurov https://www.thumbtack.com/engineering/googlebot-makes-post-requests-via-ajax/ [15:18]
assbot Thumbtack Engineering ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWIh4S ) [15:18]
asciilifeform jurov: we aint got no js. [15:19]
trinque having it do anything other than passively snarf data is kinda rude [15:19]
punkman I have received POSTs from Google in the past [15:19]
jurov http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.sk/2008/04/crawling-through-html-forms.html [15:20]
assbot Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Crawling through HTML forms ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWIiG2 ) [15:20]
asciilifeform these were 'researchers' doing their 'research' through the world's largest sp4mz0r proxy (available only to aryans, of course) [15:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what makes you think that's a form posting ? [15:20]
mircea_popescu it's just a get request. and google is pretty aggressive following all conceivable urls. [15:20]
asciilifeform mno. [15:20]
asciilifeform or ALL KEYS WOULD GET REDONE [15:20]
asciilifeform
[15:21]
asciilifeform
[15:21]
asciilifeform [15:21]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/06/france-demands-google-extend-right-to-be-forgotten-to-global-domains/ <> http://qntra.net/2015/07/france-seeks-to-impose-right-to-be-forgotten-globally/ ? [15:22]
assbot France Demands Google Extend "Right to be Forgotten" to Global Domains | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWItAU ) [15:22]
assbot France Seeks to Impose "Right to be Forgotten" Globally | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfuULS ) [15:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, it clearly scraped the url from there [15:22]
mircea_popescu but it just tried to spider it [15:22]
asciilifeform why it and not every other ? [15:23]
mircea_popescu i just checked, by going to nosuchlabs.com/redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? myself [15:23]
mircea_popescu the result is that it sets it up for rechecking, yes, but i still only made a get req [15:23]
mircea_popescu well this is like asking why did the goat piss its left leg and not the right [15:23]
trinque it could have some "back off" logic after a 500 [15:23]
kakobrekla how about content=nofollow ? [15:24]
mircea_popescu is there an actual magic modulus submitted ? [15:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: still looking for such [15:24]
mircea_popescu yeah, if /redo/ has functionality it should be in robots.txt etc [15:24]
mircea_popescu trinque i never saw a post from legit (by ip allocation) googlrbot. seen plenty from rogue agents using same user string [15:25]
* diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:26]
ben_vulpes imagine my extreme disappointment when i cracked my email this morning, found a "bullet" for the locks, and opened it to find a config change. [15:26]
ben_vulpes i imagined that he of many hands had actually excised the locks. [15:26]
ben_vulpes then i read the logs. [15:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1220396 [15:26]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 04:39:08; asciilifeform: i mean, yes, i haven't turned my death ray on db.cpp yet [15:26]
mircea_popescu lol excised the locks [15:26]
ben_vulpes myes, have read. [15:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform excise sag from tits and white from beard while at it [15:27]
asciilifeform what point is beard except to show the white ! [15:27]
mircea_popescu i gyess i don't understand how beards work [15:27]
asciilifeform (anyone recall 'chessmaster' cover ?) [15:27]
mircea_popescu aha [15:28]
ben_vulpes isn't processmessages the only thread that writes to the db? [15:28]
asciilifeform http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/chessmaster/chessmaster_2000_box_large.jpg << him [15:28]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWJ0CW ) [15:28]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Fixed http://qntra.net/2015/07/france-seeks-to-impose-right-to-be-forgotten-globally/ [15:29]
assbot France Seeks to Impose "Right to be Forgotten" Globally – New Order | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfuULS ) [15:30]
* contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [15:32]
BingoBoingo Really need to start checking when news is just an update of shit that got qntra'd earlier [15:33]
trinque ben_vulpes: I had a bitch-fest about "why the fuck does anything on earth need 40k locks" and got crickets [15:33]
trinque something is obscenely wrong there [15:34]
trinque so it routinely tries to break the integrity of its own data to the tune of 10s of thousands [15:34]
trinque if bitcoind were intended to obscure the functioning of the bitcoin algorithm for as long as possible, it would've come out the same way [15:34]
* diana_coman has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [15:36]
* pussyfreak has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [15:40]
* shovel_boss_ (~shovel_bo@unaffiliated/shovel-boss/x-4881665) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:40]
trinque relatedly, my new hobby is reading wireshark logs of bitcoind's operation [15:41]
* shovel_boss_ is now known as shovel_boss [15:47]
asciilifeform the new phuctor, like it or not, will have to consist of static html updated at intervals. [15:47]
asciilifeform the one we have now has been ddosed into more or less total uselessness [15:48]
ben_vulpes the fate of all useful things connected to the internet without mitigation [15:48]
ben_vulpes not getting ddosed? not useful. [15:48]
davout this ^ [15:49]
ben_vulpes hi davout [15:49]
trinque anyone give a shit about discussing cranking a magic number to 11 without discussing how the fuck it's using that many locks? [15:50]
asciilifeform trinque: me. [15:50]
trinque I can spend the next couple weeks staring at all the db code, but if it's already been thought through by someone, I'm all ears [15:51]
* asciilifeform has been, very reluctantly, unravelling the bdb thing in his head today [15:51]
ben_vulpes trinque: "many eyes" [15:53]
ben_vulpes don't worry about wasted effort. the more people who have it in their head, the better off la serenissima is. [15:53]
* alpalp (6836eb1c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.54.235.28) has left #bitcoin-assets [15:53]
ben_vulpes besides, you'll need to write a bitcoind of your own some day anyways. [15:53]
* diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:53]
davout ohai ben_vulpes et al. [15:53]
ben_vulpes how's life, davout? haven't seen you much of late. [15:54]
trinque ben_vulpes: widespread use of indices to deal with the fact that berkdb... ain't a db? [15:54]
davout second kid arrived, private pilot license in progress 70% pretty much sums it up :-) [15:54]
trinque then parallel threads trying to dick with said indices? [15:54]
trinque aka lets invent a database while inventing bitcoind? [15:55]
ben_vulpes myeah. curse of the kv user. [15:55]
* SuchWow (~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:55]
trinque that's what I'm seeing, just trying to measure my own sense of stink against others [15:55]
ben_vulpes similar to how all blublangs implement conditions poorly. [15:55]
ben_vulpes trinque: it's a crime that there are no transaction indices or block indices. [15:56]
trinque should jsut be a separate concern entirely [15:56]
ben_vulpes (see asciilifeform's comment re upper bound of dumpblock) [15:56]
ben_vulpes davout: sounds like a lot of work. congrats etc. [15:56]
trinque where does the abstract logic of bitcoin end and the implementation of a shitty db begin [15:56]
trinque have fun kid, who knows! [15:56]
trinque haha [15:56]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: block indices are computed! because they are a function of longest-chain [15:56]
asciilifeform thinkaboutit [15:56]
ben_vulpes $bizpartner took me up in a 2 seat glider the other weekend, after about .75 hrs of going in a circle to the right i asked to come down, was put on the stick and pedals instead. [15:57]
davout haha nice [15:57]
ben_vulpes shocking how quickly my equilibrium returned [15:57]
davout gliders are pretty high on my todo [15:57]
ben_vulpes it's like a surfboard for the sky! [15:57]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: location of block on disk, though? [15:57]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes proposes to move them on disk every reorg ? [15:58]
* ben_vulpes may be wrong, is undercaffinated, girl is stil making breakfast. [15:58]
ben_vulpes no no no [15:58]
trinque model all blocks [15:58]
trinque all paths [15:58]
trinque then have something pointing [15:58]
trinque like a version control system would do [15:58]
asciilifeform ^ what we have now [15:58]
asciilifeform every block sits down on disk sequentially, and the db index thing points to indices [15:59]
ben_vulpes + // this is O(n^2)... [16:00]
ben_vulpes + // possibly could be improved if we descend from best height if requested height is closer to it [16:00]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: technically the comment is wrong, the operation is O(N) [16:00]
asciilifeform getting ~all~ the blocks is O(n^2) [16:00]
asciilifeform i did point this out shortly after posting it. [16:00]
ben_vulpes this is above my pay grade in terms of data structures, but perhaps an opportunity to learn. is there not a data structure available for use that doesn't have to iterate through the whole index to grab the element of interest? [16:01]
trinque just point at the end of all paths [16:01]
trinque and append-only [16:01]
trinque I cannot fathom what's hard in here, and I'm plainly asking to be called a moron, and why [16:01]
* Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus) [16:01]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: try to understand why there is the index to begin with [16:01]
trinque git *is* this data structure [16:01]
asciilifeform rather than 'take nth 1MB block from disk' [16:02]
asciilifeform it is because reorgs [16:02]
asciilifeform and also because varying sizes of block [16:02]
ben_vulpes myes, i follow. [16:02]
asciilifeform really this is quite similar to everyone's file system. [16:02]
ben_vulpes what i do not understand is why it is necessary to iterate through mapblockindex. [16:05]
ben_vulpes probably an uninteresting question. [16:05]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: because gotta walk the chain to answer the question of 'who is nth block' [16:05]
asciilifeform on account of it being a tree (with reorgs) rather than a mere linked list [16:06]
ben_vulpes hm [16:12]
ben_vulpes TODAY I DO BATTLE WITH PYTHONPATH [16:12]
asciilifeform ? [16:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62515 @ 0.00051147 = 31.9745 BTC [-] [16:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86416 @ 0.00052611 = 45.4643 BTC [+] [16:21]
* julmac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [16:30]
* julmac (~julmac@q186.ip4.netikka.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:45]
* shovel_boss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:04]
* decimation has quit (Quit: leaving) [17:05]
* liquidassets has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [17:16]
scoopbot_revived Looking in the ASCII mirror. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/01/looking-in-the-ascii-mirror/ [17:30]
* decimation (~decimatio@c-50-183-5-221.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:36]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [17:37]
shinohai How long before asciilifeform invents phuctor for bitcoin [17:50]
asciilifeform shinohai: long ago done, by other people [17:50]
shinohai o rly [17:51]
decimation it's depressing to kick off bitcoind and watch it balloon in memory [17:51]
Adlai $proxies [17:54]
Adlai no empyex :( [17:54]
asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526 [18:00]
assbot Loper OS » The Phuctored and the Phucked ... ( http://bit.ly/1gyIzn7 ) [18:00]
* Adlai wonders whether somebody misunderstood shinohai's question. [18:03]
Adlai although perhaps shinohai misunderstood ecdlp [18:03]
shinohai I think i did misunderstand. [18:03]
asciilifeform !s android rng [18:04]
assbot 4 results for 'android rng' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=android+rng [18:04]
asciilifeform buncha folks used broken ecdsa which reused k-values, lost their coinz [18:04]
scoopbot_revived The Phuctored and the Phucked http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526 [18:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @ 0.00053767 = 29.5181 BTC [+] {4} [18:05]
shinohai I remember that abt reused k values and the android snafu for blockchain.info [18:09]
asciilifeform aha. it. [18:09]
punkman asciilifeform: shinohai: long ago done, by other people << still being done every second of every day [18:09]
asciilifeform naturally! [18:09]
asciilifeform why on earth would they stop ?! [18:09]
asciilifeform did people ever stop looking for gold watches on beaches ? [18:09]
asciilifeform for 'benjies' dropped on the sidewalk ? [18:10]
punkman and the whole HD wallet thing provides extra targets as well [18:10]
asciilifeform HD ? [18:10]
punkman (hierarchical deterministic) [18:10]
* Adlai finds, while trying to type out the difference between this hunt (rsa factor collision) and that (reused/predictable k-values), that it's quite elusive [18:11]
Adlai 'it is mind that moves' [18:11]
punkman see also BIP0032 [18:11]
Adlai ... how exactly? [18:11]
* assbot gives voice to Apocalyptic [18:13]
Apocalyptic punkman, care to explain your reasoning behind this claim ? [18:13]
asciilifeform and what is an 'HD' wallet ? [18:14]
shinohai wallets that look slick and get your coins lost [18:14]
Apocalyptic asciilifeform, it's a way of deriving addresses deterministically from an original seed using a HMAC function afaik [18:14]
shinohai I dont really like SPV wallets either [18:14]
punkman Apocalyptic: I have mentioned it here several times [18:15]
punkman lemme see if I can dig up thje links [18:17]
asciilifeform Apocalyptic: what is the point of this practice ? [18:17]
Apocalyptic punkman, I simply don't see the relationship between HMAC-derived addresses and the signature process, more specifically the k-value [18:17]
asciilifeform why not use a proper rng ? [18:18]
punkman asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki#Abstract [18:18]
assbot bips/bip-0032.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZOkPA ) [18:18]
punkman also brainwallet with infinite change addresses [18:18]
Apocalyptic asciilifeform, I avoids to have access to an rng at any further point [18:18]
decimation ! [18:18]
decimation you want a key without an rng? [18:18]
shinohai Am i alone here in hating on darkwallet too? [18:19]
asciilifeform i never understood the purpose of these perverse gymnastics [18:19]
Apocalyptic punkman, maybe HD wallet doesn't mean the same thing for you [18:19]
asciilifeform rng is so hard to come by ? [18:19]
Apocalyptic asciilifeform, proper rng ? [18:19]
asciilifeform aha [18:19]
asciilifeform if you're poor, you 1) don't need this 2) throw fucking dice [18:19]
Apocalyptic and if you're not poor, you buy a cardano I guess [18:20]
decimation maybe use that guy's ti-89 code for making key [18:20]
* tido23 (ae16c9d4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.22.201.212) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:20]
Adlai shinohai:you're not alone, fuck darkwallet [18:20]
shinohai use plain die [18:20]
asciilifeform not like there aren't rng available now [18:20]
Adlai it's already dead [18:20]
Adlai that's the problem [18:20]
Adlai dead, orphaned, yet somehow still losing idiot nickles [18:21]
decimation asciilifeform: part of the problem is, it's hard for folks to trust what's inside a black box without understanding what's inside [18:21]
shinohai thx Adlai too many people don't want bitcoin but an *app* for bitcoin [18:21]
asciilifeform and they understand prng ? [18:21]
Adlai punkman: fwiw i'm quite sure bip32 doesn't make your addresses less secure, provided you don't leak the key data [18:22]
decimation if you can't understand prng, how are they gonna understanding the elliptical key math, even if they supply their own dice numbers? [18:22]
Adlai it does mean that a leak compromises multiple addresses, but that's because they essentially have the same key [18:22]
decimation Adlai: so why bother? why not use just one key? [18:22]
decimation seems like it's a device to pull the wool in front of your own eyes [18:23]
jurov decimation: some people prefer to not have to maintain properly megabyte wallet.dat files [18:24]
* fluffypony has quit (Quit: peace out, A town) [18:24]
jurov cold store the seed once and get as many addresses as desired [18:25]
decimation if you can cold store on seed, why not two? or N? [18:25]
Apocalyptic in other news from the factoring mines I managed to get the complete factorization of the shortest phuctored modulus so far: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/976AAB6D6B7F325843FF0E3653C219B9D6738C5F016F72973E311181614ECAF5 [18:26]
jurov decimation: you know how wallet.dat works? [18:26]
decimation not really, I try to avoid using it [18:26]
asciilifeform Apocalyptic: neato [18:26]
jurov that you *must* back it up often or else? [18:26]
asciilifeform Apocalyptic: what was it [18:26]
Apocalyptic Factors found: 3^2, 10369813152342769819546655742594738096999186293, 111420520518095837785511104477004478326532328625274528915533121095387027488402286811845047880038390653384109 [18:26]
Apocalyptic didn't investigate if they have a particular form in base 16 or 2 [18:27]
punkman Apocalyptic: found it. https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/848 [18:27]
assbot Cryptology ePrint Archive: Report 2014/848 ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZPLh3 ) [18:27]
* fluffypony (~fluffypon@coreteam.getmonero.org) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:27]
* fluffypony has quit (Changing host) [18:27]
* fluffypony (~fluffypon@unaffiliated/fluffypony) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:27]
Adlai decimation: dunno, ask these guys... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058369 [18:27]
assbot Logged on 19-03-2015 22:01:09; assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 20:22:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057738 << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer. [18:27]
Adlai decimation: you can "cold store" an infinite number of addresses in your head as a phrase,but only a finite number of distinct keys [18:28]
Apocalyptic punkman, can you be more specific and point me to a given page/chapter ? [18:29]
* Adlai is not advocating the use of "brainwallets" where you pick the phrase, but rather a phrase generated from randomness + wordlist [18:29]
jurov ^ sop [18:29]
danielpbarron sounds like the deterministic thing comes from the already brain damaged desire to never reuse an address [18:29]
punkman Apocalyptic: eh, read the paper [18:29]
Apocalyptic also it's a paper from Courtois, who afaik has wrote many innacuracies about bitcoin [18:29]
Apocalyptic "One small security incident in a remote [18:30]
Apocalyptic corner of the system and everything collapses, all private keys can be re- [18:30]
Apocalyptic covered and ALL bitcoins within the remit of the system can be stolen. [18:30]
Apocalyptic Privilege escalation attacks on HD Wallet solutions are not new. In this [18:30]
Apocalyptic paper we take it much further." [18:30]
asciilifeform re: rng: [18:30]
Apocalyptic (sorry for
) punkman if this is their main point then it's moot wrt was I was asking 		[18:30]
asciilifeform 'The Die. A die complained: "I have not been / Quite comfortable in my skin. / Of my six planes, the sitting side, / And bore it but my single mark, / Must ever gaze, not far and wide, / But into earth's eternal dark." When earth beneath him heard the cube, / She very nearly blew a tube. / "You jackass," said she, "what a farce! / I'm dark when covered by your arse! / As soon as you will move the same, I'll shine as with a ge [18:30]
asciilifeform m-like flame." / The die, insulted past repair, / Chose not to bandy words with her.' (Morgenstern, transl. by Arndt) [18:30]
Adlai "can be stolen by people who have the auditor keys" - don't expose mpub, period. bip32 is not designed for auditing [live] wallets [18:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19809 @ 0.00051933 = 10.2874 BTC [-] {2} [18:30]
Apocalyptic that is: the hierarchy-deterministic way of computing addresses doesn't weaken at all the signature [18:31]
asciilifeform it weakens ~the whole shebang~ [18:31]
jurov danielpbarron: well, people like mp (or me) who want to sleep ad libitum and thus decided to accept coins, inveitably end up requiring $maxint addresses [18:31]
Apocalyptic well sure it does [18:31]
asciilifeform because the number of bits that must be learned by the enemy to take all of your coin - is smaller. [18:31]
asciilifeform qed. [18:31]
punkman the point is idiots will lose their coins this way, dunno what else you want [18:31]
Adlai idiots losing coin is the root of all deflation [18:32]
* assbot gives voice to fluffypony [18:32]
Adlai although in the current market climate, theft may do the opposite [18:32]
Apocalyptic asciilifeform, if something strikes you as odd among these factors please do tell [18:33]
* Adlai is a big fan of "magic" HD wallets, that send your funds into obscure chains... spendable, if you know where to look [18:33]
asciilifeform Apocalyptic: as far as i can tell, the factors found thus far all fit the profile of factors-of-randomly-chosen-integer [18:34]
asciilifeform (we know that they are not randomly-chosen, at least in the case of the 'magic 32-bit copy' set. but otherwise, yes) [18:34]
asciilifeform Apocalyptic: what did it take to obtain the factors ? [18:34]
* tido23 has quit (Quit: Page closed) [18:35]
Apocalyptic 7556 iterations of gmp-ecm from inria with a B1 bound of 43e6 [18:36]
decimation I do feel sorry for jurov, being chained to bitcoind for key management [18:36]
shinohai I feel less and less guilty about ppl losing their bitcoin to alternative chains since coming here. [18:36]
Apocalyptic I did 4480 iterations at 11e6 prior to that which found nothing [18:36]
asciilifeform !rate Apocalyptic 2 Phuctorizations! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221347 [18:36]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/55110c3ae330d93e [18:36]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 21:24:00; Apocalyptic: Factors found: 3^2, 10369813152342769819546655742594738096999186293, 111420520518095837785511104477004478326532328625274528915533121095387027488402286811845047880038390653384109 [18:36]
jurov decimation why do you think? [18:36]
asciilifeform !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.Apocalyptic.2:9ac7a9923cd6cf276665477abbafe398736d65670519700c9f24c592027436c9 [18:37]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for Apocalyptic with note: Phuctorizations! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221347 [18:37]
decimation jurov: I mean I look forward to the day when wallet.dat can be axed and an off-net computer be used to manage keys [18:37]
Apocalyptic thank you [18:38]
jurov i just wanted to point out that creating new adresses on the fly isn't universally better than generating the from seed [18:38]
asciilifeform !rate trinque 1 therealbitcoin testing [18:38]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3b5457ce487aacc5 [18:38]
jurov process is everything [18:38]
decimation it is, from the point of view of "give enemy less informatin" [18:38]
asciilifeform !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.trinque.1:fec1f5b332f215f61d3f58699b2fc3f68a67b412f15a12da37b5f313c814e60a [18:38]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for trinque with note: therealbitcoin testing [18:38]
jurov decimation in this scenario eneby that gets wallet.dat has much more information than enemy that merely gets public key [18:39]
jurov devil is in the details [18:39]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [18:39]
decimation yeah, I understand [18:39]
asciilifeform !rate phf 1 ru lisper [18:40]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d93044adb9512602 [18:40]
decimation which is why wallet.dat needs to die [18:40]
asciilifeform !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.phf.1:f789621cb79be638a2adfee29f9bb44dae1706915df62dc29625c30071357459 [18:40]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for phf with note: ru lisper [18:40]
decimation ideally one would store keys in off-net antifuse [18:40]
jurov decimation: also there must be a way to unlimited count of new addresses, which bip [18:40]
jurov bip32 fulfills nicely [18:40]
jurov as shown above, even mp had to succumb to that [18:41]
asciilifeform !rate shinohai 1 therealbitcoin testing [18:41]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/67f7b901dff3d59a [18:41]
decimation I get it, managing fucktons of key material is a serious pain [18:42]
shinohai O.o [18:42]
asciilifeform !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.shinohai.1:9af23be464f165bf419ebbc28be144141a36d6625711516de0a2f03a6ecb6039 [18:42]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for shinohai with note: therealbitcoin testing [18:42]
shinohai Is there still interest in a lame block explorer if i pursue the project? [18:43]
asciilifeform well ~i~ thought it would be interesting [18:43]
trinque wouldn't be lame to do it as described [18:43]
asciilifeform no idea about other folks [18:43]
Apocalyptic !rate asciilifeform 2 Built phuctor, knows some maths [18:43]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/12de3e5e8f1470eb [18:43]
Apocalyptic !v assbot:Apocalyptic.rate.asciilifeform.2:c43e959793043b012992520acc6f924bc0b4e54fa57c5e33a891976d87a4bafe [18:44]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for asciilifeform with note: Built phuctor, knows some maths [18:44]
jurov maff power! [18:44]
jurov deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201507.txt.asc [18:46]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZSuae ) [18:46]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [18:46]
jurov deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150801/attachment_6ce4bd8d2b82fcc9cb8a76c06e8a4e2b38f11b21.txt [18:47]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZSAyt ) [18:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7119 @ 0.00052255 = 3.72 BTC [+] [18:47]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [18:47]
* diana_coman has quit (Quit: Leaving) [18:50]
shinohai Leaked img >>> http://i.imgur.com/1Uh8Nvq.jpg?1 [18:51]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1VTSTpP ) [18:51]
asciilifeform shinohai: xt is mike hearn [18:51]
punkman http://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/07/30/operation-potao-express/ [18:53]
assbot Operation Potao Express: Analysis of a cyber-espionage toolkit ... ( http://bit.ly/1VTT7NF ) [18:53]
punkman "We found out that the website truecryptrussia.ru has been serving modified versions of the encryption software that included a backdoor to selected targets." [18:54]
asciilifeform lulz [18:57]
asciilifeform Run Moar Winblowz !! [18:58]
asciilifeform and Run Moar Binariez You Didn't Build Yourself [18:58]
decimation asciilifeform: but for the average guy, it's pwn at factory or pwn by wildmen [18:58]
asciilifeform 'average guy' isn't worth the materials needed to tan his hide [18:59]
kakobrekla Build Yourself < i imagine most people here built broken openssl before. [19:04]
decimation yeah, recipe needs 'fit code in head' too [19:04]
decimation which is a tall order [19:04]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: didn't say it was an elixir of immortality. just a baseline for literacy [19:05]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: it is just oh so precious when folks who download fresh mystery meat in bin form every day of the week and give it full run of their machine, make noises about 'security' [19:07]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:07]
decimation asciilifeform: thinking about antifuse, a 'jungle' version could be made: make a pcb with 4096 shorts, scrape the desired bitpattern by hand. could be made into a 'pluggable module' and hand-verified [19:09]
asciilifeform decimation: and the diodes ? [19:09]
asciilifeform also 4096 of'em ? [19:09]
decimation not even diodes, just traces [19:09]
asciilifeform that's not a rom [19:09]
asciilifeform how do you address row/col without diodes ? [19:10]
asciilifeform pray tell [19:10]
decimation yeah you would need a multiplex chip [19:10]
asciilifeform you still need diodes ! [19:10]
asciilifeform otherwise you get current flow through all the shorts in a row/col [19:11]
asciilifeform and meaningless output [19:11]
asciilifeform can't select. [19:11]
decimation well, I was thinking of 4096 lines in parallel [19:11]
decimation but that wouldn't be practical [19:11]
asciilifeform ahahaha l0l [19:11]
asciilifeform no. [19:11]
decimation as an edge connector [19:11]
asciilifeform edge connectors with reasonable pin counts are flaky enough as it is. [19:11]
asciilifeform (ever nudge your video card ?) [19:12]
decimation yeah, maybe a 'zif socket' [19:12]
asciilifeform ditto [19:12]
decimation but now it gets more expensive [19:12]
decimation plus ideally you would want several keys per card [19:12]
asciilifeform and outrageously fragile if exercised with any regularity [19:12]
decimation yeah, so you would need some logic to probe each channel [19:12]
asciilifeform some logic here, some logic there, sooner or later you have your existing computer plus some weird appendage [19:13]
asciilifeform instead of whatever it was you wanted. [19:14]
decimation yeah, it's depressing [19:15]
kakobrekla this chan? yes. [19:15]
decimation it would be nice to have a little 'secure terminal' which could store key material reliably [19:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10812 @ 0.00050698 = 5.4815 BTC [-] {4} [19:16]
asciilifeform decimation: depending on what you want to do, 1980s computers are still available [19:17]
punkman http://www.iacr.org/archive/ches2006/26/26.pdf << maybe relevant to those corrupted keys phuctor found [19:18]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfEzwL ) [19:18]
asciilifeform punkman: i can't find anything that will display this pdf [19:18]
punkman http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:q5KIpA2wYPQJ:bcm.crypto.free.fr/pdf/BCCC06.pdf+&cd=21&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us here [19:19]
assbot Why One Should Also Secure RSA Public Key Elements ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfEKbp ) [19:19]
punkman and referenced in that: http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/1767685/on-authenticated-computing-and-rsa-based-authentication [19:19]
punkman "the most often observed fault during RSA-computations exposed to glitch attacks is the erroneous modification of the moduli." [19:20]
asciilifeform if the 32-bit-mirror moduli are the product of any kind of electronic accident, i will shit toyotas. [19:21]
asciilifeform and not once, but 98 times. [19:21]
asciilifeform on top of this, i hope it is obvious to everyone that the problem of divining any bits of the private key from the public, mutilated or not, is equivalent to breaking rsa [19:22]
asciilifeform and yes, you can recover bits of key from faults, ~if said faults take place on a machine with knowledge of the private key~ ! [19:23]
asciilifeform this, famously, is why you don't ever want to give public access to a mechanism which tries to decrypt messages supplied by public [19:24]
asciilifeform esp. in real time [19:24]
punkman " the attacker is not able to forge new valid signatures, but Seifert’s attack allows the attacker to pass — with a certain probability — the signature verification step, for a message of her choice, by corrupting the public modulus" [19:24]
asciilifeform no shit [19:25]
shinohai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221493 <<< Does said toyota shit contain any ISIS insurgents? [19:25]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 22:18:13; asciilifeform: if the 32-bit-mirror moduli are the product of any kind of electronic accident, i will shit toyotas. [19:25]
asciilifeform e.g., we can now sign messages using the key Apocalyptic supplied the complete factorization for [19:25]
asciilifeform shinohai: each will contain seven live, and healthy, osama bin ladens [19:25]
asciilifeform and one dick cheney to fellate'em [19:26]
shinohai w0rd [19:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00050402 = 13.0541 BTC [-] {3} [19:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00050402 = 18.5479 BTC [-] [19:39]
mircea_popescu what the fuck is with people and "deleting" [19:41]
mircea_popescu somehow the average idiot got this idea that time comes with an undo button. when and how did this happen. [19:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: anvin's, for instance, is missing [19:41]
decimation somebody already had my 'pcb anti-fuse' idea (and thought it out better) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.components/fuse-based$20printed$20circuit$20board/sci.electronics.components/BV7Q279up-Q/XzdY2RJgQgEJ [19:41]
assbot Google Groupes ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfHRQz ) [19:41]
asciilifeform (the diddled key) [19:41]
asciilifeform from mit sks [19:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform interesting, sorta [19:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur << obligatory re: 'how did this happen' [19:42]
assbot The Digital Imprimatur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfHXHV ) [19:42]
asciilifeform in short, www was the censor's wet dream [19:42]
asciilifeform can 'un-print' [19:42]
mircea_popescu i dun see it. [19:42]
asciilifeform because not stupid [19:42]
asciilifeform the stupid - see this and only this [19:42]
decimation mircea_popescu: back in the old days you had to print stuff on paper [19:43]
mircea_popescu "Over the last two years I have become deeply and increasingly pessimistic about the future of liberty and freedom of speech, particularly in regard to the Internet. This is a complete reversal of the almost unbounded optimism I felt during the 1994–1999 period when public access to the Internet burgeoned and innovative new forms of communication appeared in rapid succession. In that epoch I was firmly convinced that [19:43]
mircea_popescu universal access to the Internet would provide a countervailing force against the centralisation and concentration in government and the mass media which act to constrain freedom of expression and unrestricted access to information. Further, the Internet, properly used, could actually roll back government and corporate encroachment on individual freedom by allowing information to flow past the barriers erected by tota [19:43]
mircea_popescu litarian or authoritarian governments and around the gatekeepers of the mainstream media." [19:43]
mircea_popescu this will be said re bitcoin in what, acoupla years ? [19:43]
mircea_popescu anyway, my blown fuse was specifically re http://trilema.com/2014/ron-maimon-lubos-motl-and-other-internet-things-i-hear-of-today-for-the-very-first-time/#comment-114933 [19:44]
assbot Ron Maimon, Luboš Motl and other Internet things I hear of today for the very first time on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MErftK ) [19:44]
asciilifeform lulzy [19:45]
mircea_popescu but the idea you know ? [19:45]
mircea_popescu "you fucked up, delete it!!1 quick!!1" [19:45]
asciilifeform aha, the idea. [19:45]
mircea_popescu how the fuck. [19:45]
mircea_popescu to this day - i have no idea how to put this in proper words - to this day they have NUMEROUS CASES of fucktarded "doctors" who get supoenad for their records and show up with doctored records. [19:46]
asciilifeform these are folks who will throw away whole identities on a lark, not mere posts [19:46]
mircea_popescu what, please explain to me, what the fuck must be going on inside this supposedly educated person's mind. [19:46]
mircea_popescu how are they a doctor in the first place. [19:46]
mircea_popescu it's as unmedical as it gets. [19:46]
decimation mircea_popescu: you mean folks with 'fake degrees' [19:47]
mircea_popescu no. [19:47]
decimation or fake medical records [19:47]
mircea_popescu i mean folks with multiple degrees from fucking harvard. [19:47]
asciilifeform greenspun ? [19:47]
mircea_popescu decimation what happens is that some guy dies and the attening physician gets supoenad. [19:47]
mircea_popescu "please bring your records re so and so" [19:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15888 @ 0.00050571 = 8.0347 BTC [+] [19:48]
mircea_popescu by the point that supoena issues, OBVIOUSLY they already have copies. [19:48]
mircea_popescu because no fucking laywer to date has yet asked a question he didn't know the answer to [19:48]
decimation ah, and doctor didn't actually take notes, or have any notion of what was going on with particular patient? [19:48]
mircea_popescu because the job where you ask questions you don't know the answer to is in science not in humanities. [19:48]
asciilifeform !b 1 [19:48]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/08E8V2K.txt ) [19:48]
mircea_popescu no, doctor took notes, didn't like the look of them, changed what they said. [19:48]
decimation ah I see. [19:48]
mircea_popescu mental age of about 6 [19:49]
decimation to connect with my misunderstanding, why bother going to medical school? [19:49]
asciilifeform incidentally, the american style of schooling strongly selects for this [19:49]
decimation could do the same with fake degree too [19:49]
mircea_popescu some people actually wanna learn a trade for chryssakes. [19:49]
asciilifeform that's what 'go-getter type' has ~always meant in usa~. a fella willing to lie, defraud, with straight face [19:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no look. lie and defraud is one thing. [19:50]
asciilifeform the tighter a tournament market, in usa, the more this is selected for. [19:50]
mircea_popescu there's a difference, you know, between faeces flinger and bed shitter. [19:50]
decimation in the uk in particular, there is a strong tradition of 'surgeon is not doctor, but skilled craftsman' [19:50]
mircea_popescu this is bed shitting. [19:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: thing is, their scam skillz are honed for a certain kind of largely-ritualized competition. like the antlers of ruminants. for actual combat - not so much [19:51]
mircea_popescu quite ruminant. [19:51]
decimation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_College_of_Surgeons_of_England " When the College of Surgeons received its royal charter, the Royal College of Physicians insisted that candidates must have a medical degree first.[citation needed] Therefore an aspiring surgeon had to study medicine first and received the title Doctor. Thereafter, having obtained the diploma of Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons he would revert ... [19:52]
assbot Royal College of Surgeons of England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1MErRQ6 ) [19:52]
decimation ... to the title "Mr" as a snub to the RCP." [19:52]
shinohai I'd rather be known as a knight of La Serenissima. [19:53]
shinohai hue [19:53]
mircea_popescu "en or, lions rampant, people ruminant" [19:53]
asciilifeform !b 1 [19:53]
decimation heh [19:53]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/13YB801.txt ) [19:53]
asciilifeform mega-l0l [19:53]
decimation ^ #b-a heraldry? [19:53]
shinohai http://www.immortalmuse.com/2010/09/27/tuesday-poem-jims-coat-of-arms-by-mark-twain/ [19:54]
assbot "Jim's Coat of Arms" by Mark Twain | Immortal MuseImmortal Muse ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEs2Lg ) [19:54]
* Lycerion has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [20:03]
ben_vulpes phf: your .dat reader works very well, thank you. consider submitting to list? [20:03]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell phf %% [20:03]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:03]
* Lycerion (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:03]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221195 << too lazy to search for the mp quote saying "these schmucks are principally invovled in trying to defend their own imaginary position of power through a castle of bad code" [20:24]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 18:32:03; trinque: if bitcoind were intended to obscure the functioning of the bitcoin algorithm for as long as possible, it would've come out the same way [20:25]
mircea_popescu but your intuition is correct. everything the "core devs" have been doing since at the latest 2012 is this and nothing else. [20:25]
mircea_popescu which is why it's getting excised. [20:25]
mircea_popescu somehow the notion that it'll get excised never occured to them. [20:25]
mircea_popescu like you know, the notion that he's pouring money in the sand ne'er occurs to friendly ddos guy. [20:25]
mircea_popescu stragety is hard. [20:25]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221203 << i don't think you understand what "locks" means in bdb parlance [20:26]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 18:47:08; trinque: anyone give a shit about discussing cranking a magic number to 11 without discussing how the fuck it's using that many locks? [20:26]
mircea_popescu see http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs276a/projects/docs/berkeleydb/ref/lock/intro.html specifically " (Performing multiple lock operations atomically is useful in performing Btree traversals". then realise this is jsut called recursively throughout a (large) tree for no reason whatsoever. [20:27]
assbot Berkeley DB Reference Guide: Berkeley DB and locking ... ( http://bit.ly/1N0SIDd ) [20:27]
mircea_popescu it's a meaningless count. [20:27]
mircea_popescu obviously this should be fixed. but we're not there yet, and the fix would not consist of shaping gangrene anyway. [20:28]
trinque got it; I'll read that link [20:31]
trinque and the point prior is all too clear [20:31]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221256 << this is pure wank. all blocks are 1mb, and it's reliable as set in stone. the right move is to pad all blocks to 1mb and forget about it [20:32]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 18:59:24; asciilifeform: and also because varying sizes of block [20:32]
mircea_popescu that satoshi didn't originally is because he adapted design to perceived resources, and figured nobody would; run it if it took 2gb every 8 days. [20:33]
mircea_popescu in fact the blk0001 covers as you folks observed, the first ~3 years of bitcoin or some shit. [20:33]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, that random accident at the beginning passed, the correct storage schema for bitcoin blockchain is fixed 1mb blocks. [20:33]
mircea_popescu i vaguely recall we even discussed this, in re a bitcoin fs. [20:34]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221312 << check it out, the perpetuum entropible. [20:38]
scoopbot_revived What MP wants, MP gets. Also, prayers are answered. http://trilema.com/2015/what-mp-wants-mp-gets-also-prayers-are-answered/ [20:38]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 21:15:24; Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, I avoids to have access to an rng at any further point [20:38]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221341 << well done! [20:39]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 21:23:09; Apocalyptic: in other news from the factoring mines I managed to get the complete factorization of the shortest phuctored modulus so far: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/976AAB6D6B7F325843FF0E3653C219B9D6738C5F016F72973E311181614ECAF5 [20:39]
mircea_popescu sadly the log cuts up the numbers. [20:40]
mircea_popescu 3^2, 10369813152342769819546655742594738096999186293, [20:41]
mircea_popescu 1114205205180958377855111044770044783265323286252745 [20:41]
mircea_popescu 2891553312109538702748840228681184504788003839065338 [20:41]
mircea_popescu 4109 [20:41]
mircea_popescu for the future. [20:41]
Apocalyptic mircea_popescu, only the display is cut, the source shows the full numbers [20:41]
mircea_popescu ah right you are. [20:41]
mircea_popescu was this a 1024 key ? [20:42]
mircea_popescu seem too few digits, to my untrained eye. [20:42]
Apocalyptic maybe even a 512 one [20:42]
mircea_popescu 163 would imply a 512 bit key except iirc no key under 768 was even allowed ? [20:43]
cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220928 <<< forbes didn't lift an article but linked to another site which lifted a qntra story which was an exclusive [20:44]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 15:52:27; asciilifeform: who was it who lifted a piece wholesale? 'forbes' ? [20:44]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221373 << not necessary, one'd hope. bitbet has been running off the same set of addresses forever. [20:45]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 21:28:52; jurov: danielpbarron: well, people like mp (or me) who want to sleep ad libitum and thus decided to accept coins, inveitably end up requiring $maxint addresses [20:45]
cazalla and i contacted them saying hey, perhaps you'd like to link to the original instead of a copy wrapped in adsense but he declined [20:45]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu just because large enough set. [20:46]
mircea_popescu i guess. [20:46]
mircea_popescu not a "solved problem" in my estimation, yet. future will decide. [20:47]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221397 << it's provably the same thing lol. [20:47]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 21:35:28; jurov: i just wanted to point out that creating new adresses on the fly isn't universally better than generating the from seed [20:47]
mircea_popescu the idea (correct, btw) was to pre-create a pool. [20:47]
mircea_popescu this is kind-of unavoidable from a crypto security perspective. [20:48]
Apocalyptic mircea_popescu: anvin's, for instance, is missing // interesting, did you notice any other key that has been pulled out ? [20:48]
* shinohai * mircea_popescu has the chinese miners on his side [20:48]
mircea_popescu he's been keeping closer tabs than me. [20:49]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221422 << yes. make a thing that dumps html [20:49]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 21:40:14; shinohai: Is there still interest in a lame block explorer if i pursue the project? [20:50]
mircea_popescu it'll teach you enough about how bitcoind sucks. [20:50]
shinohai i know, i have to use php until I learn perl [20:50]
mircea_popescu o.OP [20:51]
mircea_popescu i can't conceive how this would be done in php. [20:51]
shinohai I haz explore in php days away [20:51]
mircea_popescu i was thinking you write it in c++, like the rest of the code, can be compiled as an addon [20:51]
mircea_popescu but what specifically would php do ? i don't get it ? [20:52]
mircea_popescu static html means no php needed or useful. [20:52]
mircea_popescu also most people running it would probably not opt to run apache [20:52]
mircea_popescu but some minimal webserver. [20:52]
shinohai its dirty web studd, not meant to be perm [20:52]
trinque you can use it like a template system... but... wai [20:52]
kakobrekla if block explorer is to have any usability you imho need to expand db a lot. [20:52]
mircea_popescu db-on-disk aka static html files. [20:52]
kakobrekla O_o [20:53]
trinque hm yeah seems like this should be bolted to dumpblock? [20:53]
trinque not bolted, should make use thereof [20:53]
shinohai yes trinque [20:53]
mircea_popescu why do it on demand ? just dump out the "block explorer" material as you process the txn [20:53]
trinque ^ yeah [20:53]
kakobrekla blockdumper != blockexplorer [20:53]
trinque I know, saying where he can get the data [20:53]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla you wouldn't know the difference from the clicking side. [20:53]
kakobrekla but you would. [20:54]
mircea_popescu sure, it won't contain retarded "click here for value in dollars" dongles [20:54]
mircea_popescu you don't want those. [20:54]
kakobrekla bitcoind on its own gives you ability to do approx nothing. it cant tell me unspent output of an address unless that address is in the wallet (watch only suffices). [20:55]
mircea_popescu but, accept a new tx ? add txhash.html in /tx/ dir. [20:55]
shinohai no then you are unwittingly pegged, like a fat McWhore [20:55]
kakobrekla only if you keep a seperete record [20:55]
kakobrekla of all the things [20:55]
mircea_popescu accept a new block ? add blockhash.html in /block/ [20:55]
mircea_popescu reorg a block ? modify its html [20:55]
mircea_popescu etc [20:55]
kakobrekla how is this better than just doing dump block in your shell [20:56]
mircea_popescu at all points there's a purely injective function from blockchain to blockexplorer html pile [20:56]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla cause some people wanna click on web things, what. [20:56]
mircea_popescu how is anything better than irc and shell. they want the web. [20:56]
trinque seems like looking for log messages in the code would be a decent way to find where to hook [20:56]
kakobrekla i dont see any use in it, build what you want. [20:56]
trinque cmon hypertext is pretty cool [20:56]
trinque I hear it's getting big these days [20:57]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i see the use of a block explorer website with 0 js on it. [20:57]
kakobrekla you dont need js to bloxexplore on current blockexplorers [20:57]
mircea_popescu and add a "guaranteed accurate by process" thing to it makes it wunderbar. [20:57]
mircea_popescu also the fact that "any node can stand up a block explorer" is just the pill to sink the fucktarded "oh herp, we invested in bc.i" shitticon valley crap. [20:58]
kakobrekla blockexplorer != blockdumper [20:58]
mircea_popescu i enjoy making their investments worthless for purely political reasons. pederasts gotta learn. [20:58]
kakobrekla keep messing up these things. [20:58]
shinohai shit [20:58]
kakobrekla blockdumper is unable to tell you how much spendables is on a given address. [20:59]
mircea_popescu it can list them. [20:59]
mircea_popescu i guess you need magic to add them, fine, whatevs. [20:59]
gernika Is the pederast epithet a reference to older VCs getting kicks from paying a bunch of young hacker boys to hang out with them? [21:00]
trinque lol this thing just uses various *print* functions to log [21:01]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu> it can list them. < not trivially. [21:01]
mircea_popescu gernika quite exactly. reference : http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/#selection-273.0-281.82 [21:02]
assbot Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DhWTKQ ) [21:02]
ben_vulpes welcome, trinque [21:02]
trinque ben_vulpes: it hurts! [21:02]
trinque everything hurts! [21:02]
ben_vulpes so stop doing it or stfu [21:02]
trinque I shall do neither. [21:02]
kakobrekla ftr, toshi (postgres) currently has 488 gb database for the 30 or so gigs of blockchain [21:02]
gernika mircea_popescu Interesting. That's one thing you and Michael O. Church agree on. [21:02]
ben_vulpes 'twas a joke, joke only. [21:03]
trinque I know I know [21:03]
mircea_popescu gernika the difference being that he's poor. [21:03]
kakobrekla theres a reason for that. [21:03]
ben_vulpes kakobrekla: ever run an 'abe'? [21:03]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla there maybe is or maybe is not. [21:03]
kakobrekla ben_vulpes sure, and a bunch of other explorers. [21:03]
kakobrekla some, not public. [21:03]
ben_vulpes which to avoid, which are not miserable? [21:04]
mircea_popescu having someone from here try it is still a great thing. [21:04]
kakobrekla they are all miserable. [21:04]
ben_vulpes o well then [21:04]
trinque I'll say writing deedbot- was highly instructive. [21:04]
kakobrekla but yeah stay away from abe [21:04]
trinque shinohai: ^^ [21:04]
ben_vulpes why is abe so bad? [21:04]
kakobrekla last i checked, years ago, that was a piece of spaghetti pythons that broke weekly [21:04]
ben_vulpes aside from "can't serve while indexing lol"? [21:04]
shinohai abe sucks, i'd rather rebuild bitpay insight -css [21:05]
* ben_vulpes kicked off its indexer this morning [21:05]
ben_vulpes ah jesus insight is a shitshow that much i know from pissing on the fence in question [21:06]
ben_vulpes kakobrekla: 'toshi' creates its db from a rails schema iirc, no surprise that it's 10x blockchain size [21:07]
ben_vulpes but transaction indexing etc should take *that* much space... [21:07]
shinohai then i have no framework [21:07]
kakobrekla ben_vulpes others arent that much smaller [21:07]
shinohai besies bitcoind output [21:07]
gernika mod6 asciilifeform fyi I just successfully built stator bitcoind on top of rotor. Gentoo inside Parallels. Needed trinque's patch. [21:08]
kakobrekla blockr was something like 200-300 gigs iirc [21:08]
ben_vulpes wow. [21:08]
mircea_popescu blocker's in past tense now ? [21:08]
ben_vulpes whence the extra data? most of the relationships should live in foreign keys. [21:09]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yeah, there's a reason i keep saying plain html and db on disk and stuff [21:09]
kakobrekla sort of. [21:09]
* ben_vulpes off for a bit [21:09]
mircea_popescu exactly to piss on the face of all the "developer" kids with "ideas" [21:09]
kakobrekla plain html and db on disk and stuff < yes we want another duplicate of useless stuff stored in blockchain files [21:09]
shinohai You shouldn't trust developers tis true [21:10]
mircea_popescu yes. we do. [21:10]
mircea_popescu to replace the useless duplicate of all the shit in a ruby install. [21:10]
trinque the vast majority of websites out there should be this [21:10]
mircea_popescu if disks are gonna fill with rubbish, i want it to be my meaningless rubbish, not theirs. [21:10]
shinohai ruby is just as useless as java [21:10]
trinque how often do you publish vs read [21:10]
mircea_popescu trinque ill confess about quarterly i get an itch to convert trilema [21:10]
trinque people "MVC", then it's memcached this and redis that [21:11]
trinque mircea_popescu: I bet, perfect example [21:11]
mircea_popescu re that "academic" link earlier : wtf is WRONG with these people. i can not see a date onthe page. [21:13]
mircea_popescu what is the point of even fucking existing if one's going to be this dumb ? [21:13]
mircea_popescu what, they've not invented dating in their culture ? what is this, polinesia online ? [21:13]
kakobrekla i dont see why save all html files beforehand if you can just dumpblock on the fly, its a stupid operations it gets done fast. [21:13]
mircea_popescu fucking sumerians had it, it's not even european. [21:13]
kakobrekla its not like you are querying for abalance of an address. [21:14]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla you know nothing prevents you from doing even the balance, in plain html. [21:15]
mircea_popescu suppose you accept a new block. now you do 1) list it in /blocks/ ; 2) iterate over all the txn it includes, list them in /txn/ ; 3) iterate over all addresses included, add and substract from /addresses/address.html [21:16]
mircea_popescu presto. [21:16]
kakobrekla well you will end up with 100gigs+ db or so. or unusably slow. [21:16]
mircea_popescu you end up with a pile of html files that would conceivably be smaller than the blockchain (no sigs) [21:16]
mircea_popescu (or larger, of course - html mark-up. but anyway) [21:18]
kakobrekla keeping all the balance for all the addresses wont be that small. [21:18]
mircea_popescu the balance of any address is a longint. [21:18]
* yamaka (~yamaka@unaffiliated/yamaka) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:18]
kakobrekla number of tx * avg number of in/outputs = ? [21:19]
mircea_popescu you can trivially opt to "only list txn over X". [21:20]
mircea_popescu update the balance, but not list the txn. [21:20]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221499 << what "her" fucking choice ? since when it's her choice, have we EVER even seen a documented case of a female attacker ? [21:21]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 22:21:53; punkman: " the attacker is not able to forge new valid signatures, but Seifert’s attack allows the attacker to pass — with a certain probability — the signature verification step, for a message of her choice, by corrupting the public modulus" [21:21]
* julmac has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [21:22]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [21:24]
Apocalyptic mircea_popescu, maybe because in crypto the attacker is usually called Eve [21:28]
mircea_popescu unflattering as that may be [21:28]
mircea_popescu eve's like one of maybe five people in the jewish cannon i'd consider hanging with [21:28]
Apocalyptic (stems from "eavesdropping") [21:29]
gernika mod6 Built v0.5.4-TEST2 with rotor but can't run it on the system I built it on because: "-bash: ./bitcoind: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error." This is on gentoo built from stage3-i486-20150728.tar.bz2 [21:33]
* julmac (~julmac@209.222.19.251.adsl.inet-telecom.org) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:34]
trinque gernika: anything interesting from dumpelf on the file? [21:34]
gernika trinque: Don't think so: ./bitcoind: file format elf64-x86-64 [21:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00050864 = 13.2246 BTC [+] [21:35]
gernika Not sure if I accidentally built a 32 bit gentoo or what... [21:36]
gernika objdump: ./bitcoind: not a dynamic object [21:37]
mircea_popescu it says it's 64 [21:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you see any problem with me thinking https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ is basically retarded ? [21:37]
gernika Well shit. Somehow I built 64 bit binaries on a 32 bit install of gentoo. [21:41]
BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221623 << I made a point of hunting 1990's keys from universities to feed the Phuctor. Many were of short length. I though maybe they'd fall first and prime the beast, but... [21:41]
assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 23:40:28; mircea_popescu: 163 would imply a 512 bit key except iirc no key under 768 was even allowed ? [21:41]
mircea_popescu gernika it's a wonder they built, you had multilib installed for some reason ? [21:42]
gernika mircea_popescu Yeah I did. [21:42]
gernika Looks like [21:42]
mircea_popescu grats, i guess ? o.O [21:42]
gernika I guess I get to get more practice installing gentoo :) [21:43]
mircea_popescu you could just rebuild for your platform. [21:43]
mircea_popescu very few people still use 32bit, might be interesting test case. [21:43]
gernika I'll give that a shot [21:43]
mircea_popescu i dunno that any of the currently standing nodes are on 32 bit platforms [21:43]
trinque gernika: there are knobs in buildroot for that [21:44]
trinque and also in rotor.sh, every mention of 64 must change [21:44]
mircea_popescu "Note: I am well aware that dynamic documents are a huge, gaping, ugly hole in the digital imprimatur scheme. I have not expended a great deal of effort thinking about ways to better secure such documents; I'm sure this issue will be explored in detail" [21:45]
mircea_popescu aka "note : my idiocy falls apart at hte most cursory examination, but i am the sort of dumb schmuck that aims to insulate himself from this by waving hands and weaving words, rather than a thninking person" [21:45]
mircea_popescu meh. [21:45]
mircea_popescu and before anyone wants to tell me the author has five concubines gifted by from cornell west and is widely respected by robed pamplonocrats or w/e : i dun give a shit kthx. [21:46]
* SuchWow has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [21:48]
* TheNewDeal (~TheNewDea@unaffiliated/thenewdeal) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:02]
* trixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [22:02]
* assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal [22:05]
TheNewDeal if anyone is interested in taking the no side on this https://bitbet.us/bet/1153/btc-to-top-350-before-september/ . leave me a note and perhaps we can strike a deal [22:06]
assbot BitBet - BTC to top $350 before September :: 23.71 B (30%) on Yes, 54.46 B (70%) on No | closing in 1 week 1 day| weight: 21`395 (100`000 to 10`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1IcNWRU ) [22:06]
TheNewDeal a new deal of sorts [22:06]
TheNewDeal I'm thinking of adding perhaps 2 days equivalent timeweight. Say weight it 21000, two days ago weight was 23600. I would accept your amount, and pay out on the timeweight two days prior, 23600. Terms negotiable [22:10]
* trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has left #bitcoin-assets [22:17]
* trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:18]
* assbot gives voice to trinque [22:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40015 @ 0.00051334 = 20.5413 BTC [+] {3} [22:25]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221782 << my brain pulls its frequent trick; i distinctly recalled there being a point in that thing [22:33]
assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:34:46; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you see any problem with me thinking https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ is basically retarded ? [22:33]
* btcdrak has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [22:33]
asciilifeform (which was, that www makes things very easy for the censor, much easier at any rate than rounding up 10,000 books to burn) [22:33]
asciilifeform but it is buried in a pile of fuck-knows-what, yes [22:34]
asciilifeform (it got garbage-collected in my memory) [22:34]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221786 << no it is not 'a wonder' - it will build on a z80!!! cross-compiler, remember ? [22:34]
assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:39:22; mircea_popescu: gernika it's a wonder they built, you had multilib installed for some reason ? [22:34]
asciilifeform multilib not relevant! [22:34]
asciilifeform 'rotor' makes use of nothing other than the libs we include [22:35]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221769 << other than the polish chick (joana rutkowska [sp?]) - not known to me [22:36]
assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:18:25; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221499 << what "her" fucking choice ? since when it's her choice, have we EVER even seen a documented case of a female attacker ? [22:36]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221792 << as easy as setting up for 'arm' build, etc. change the knob. [22:36]
assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:40:37; mircea_popescu: very few people still use 32bit, might be interesting test case. [22:36]
asciilifeform get x86-32, mips, cray, whatever. [22:36]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221794 << danielpbarron's pogo, possibly [22:37]
assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:40:51; mircea_popescu: i dunno that any of the currently standing nodes are on 32 bit platforms [22:37]
asciilifeform (pogo is an arm32) [22:37]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221762 << store'em compressed [22:38]
scoopbot_revived Scottish Bank, Police & Court Harass Bitcoin Trader, Conspire To Steal His Cash http://qntra.net/2015/08/scottish-bank-police-court-harass-bitcoin-trader-conspire-to-steal-his-cash/ [22:38]
assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:13:47; mircea_popescu: you end up with a pile of html files that would conceivably be smaller than the blockchain (no sigs) [22:38]
asciilifeform 'The cash was seized, pending an inquiry that was hampered by the individual’s initial refusal to provide any information about its source. Once the investigation was complete and no basis for forfeiting the cash had been established, it was handed back.' << ahahahaha [22:39]
asciilifeform 'handed back' [22:39]
asciilifeform just by asking nicely, aha [22:39]
asciilifeform no mention of legal fees, having to sit broke for months, etc [22:40]
asciilifeform and 'hampered by refusal' [22:40]
asciilifeform http://www.pcworld.com/article/2955572/italian-police-shutter-dark-web-marketplace.html << l0lz [22:45]
assbot Italian police shutter Dark Web marketplace | PCWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1N16dmg ) [22:45]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 interestingly, incitatus synced and stayed synced today [22:48]
gribble The operation succeeded. [22:48]
asciilifeform i'll leave it up, for now. [22:48]
asciilifeform dulap appears to have fallen into an nsa silent hole again... [22:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you still getting ^this on your nodes ? [22:50]
decimation asciilifeform: doesn't it seem more likely that there's something fucktarded about the sync code? [22:57]
* BingoBoingo has quit (Quit: Leaving) [22:58]
* TheNewDeal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [23:02]
asciilifeform decimation: no. [23:12]
asciilifeform decimation: i 'wiresharked' many hours of this. [23:13]
asciilifeform it is precisely as if someone were snipping out just the packets with useful payload, while leaving enough in place to leave the connection open. [23:13]
asciilifeform it also ~never~ happens between directly-connected nodes on my lan, for example. [23:14]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:19]
* trixisowned (~skdsfhshf@184-96-35-163.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:21]
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.