Forum logs for 31 Dec 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah kinda huh. [00:14]
mircea_popescu: "whereupon, with the pain that I can only compare to that of a forcibly extracted illusion, I discovered that the bearded essayist had done just what schoolchildren do the world over, namely, repeated Hegel's argument paraphrastically, just as if it had been the proof of a Euclidean theorem or the tale of a big bad wolf called Sein." [00:49]
mircea_popescu: this fucktard has actually no idea what proof actually is. [00:49]
mircea_popescu: "and while I considered myself no more competent to discuss Hegel's logic than Leibniz's mathematics, I failed to see why discussion of a subject like slavery by the former should be closed to literary intrusion when, in the case of the latter, such an intrusion had produced Candide." and there's the moneyshot. [00:50]
asciilifeform: wassat [01:03]
asciilifeform: canhaz sores ? [01:03]
mircea_popescu: from a link of yours to the urbit guy, quoting some w/e the fuck other dork like him. [02:10]
mircea_popescu: [02:12]
a111: Logged on 2014-09-20 18:07 asciilifeform: << linked from above, mr mold's explanation (written presumably before the chumpatron re-swallowed him, this time - for good.) [02:12]
BingoBoingo: ISP monthly statement will be published tomorrow following yet another rereading of the accounting standards, the lack of Qntra at the close of the year is a great disappointment. [08:24]
BingoBoingo: In other news: breaking up is easy in a place where all the pretty girls smile at you. [08:25]
BingoBoingo: Also the hostel staff have taken to recommending me as a tour guide/travel buddy to single brasileras traveling alone [08:25]
BingoBoingo: And as the year closes out the problem of the chinches de cama appears to have been remedied through my secret campaign of chemical warfare [08:26]
BingoBoingo: (Turns out ivermectin is not a guarenteed kill, but it usually paralyses them before they make it back to a hiding spot for easy disposal of the pests) [08:28]
BingoBoingo: And on that note, I have a group to escort to the feria. [08:30]
BingoBoingo: Oh, one last item of importance. After 3 weeks of eating real food, the smell of my farts started to change. [08:33]
BingoBoingo: Hasta luego [08:33]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in vintage lulz, [09:06]
mircea_popescu: and in other "here's what i stole off trilema", [09:27]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in imperial narratives, "Parker Lewis Retweeted Vitalik Buterin This about sums it up, @brian_armstrong retweeting @vitalikbuterin about how creating sound money (not controlled by government) is not a meaningful achievement for society, the first thing that finally caused me to tweet" [09:30]
mircea_popescu: for "society", right ? which fucking society ? [09:30]
mircea_popescu: the "society" as a usg captive item, that thing ? the ghetto jewry of 2017, about to make pretty ash piles by 2040 ? [09:30]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that thing is making me join ircnet! [09:35]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's pretty old, i have nfi whether d00d still in the saddle [09:36]
mircea_popescu: one way to find out. [09:37]
asciilifeform: last item in linked blog , circa '15. but yea [09:37]
mircea_popescu: first page has nfi it should put server and port somewhere / [09:37]
mircea_popescu: or "Getting started" page [09:37]
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with people! [09:38]
asciilifeform: 'It is an "anarchistic" network without the channel services and nickname services you may find on other networks but this is deliberate since this is how IRC was designed to be used and our users tend to prefer it this way' [09:38]
mircea_popescu: and their linked webchat ( dies [09:38]
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does one connect. [09:38]
mircea_popescu: << finally. [09:39]
asciilifeform: these expeditions always seem to end with a catv. but asciilifeform looks forward to reading the postmortem. [09:41]
mircea_popescu: is dead... doesn't answer, actually drops connections "unauthorized"... [09:41]
mircea_popescu: so far they end up with a "holy shit brains are broken" [09:41]
asciilifeform: bigger minefield, richer village, neh [09:42]
mircea_popescu: neh. [09:42]
mircea_popescu: this is what i introduce as "the mmorpg fallacy" to the slavegirls. it's true that in mmorpgs some obscure vilage in the fucking mountains has the BEST fucking weapons + plasma armor and whatnot while the imperial capital somehow makes do with cotton rags and sharpened sticks to kill the rats. [09:43]
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER, this has no bearing on how things work irl. irl, bigger minefield, dumber villagers. [09:43]
mircea_popescu: holy shit also drops conns as "unauthorized" [09:43]
asciilifeform: this would depend, i suspect, on what's being kept in/out [09:43]
mircea_popescu: did anyone mention german folk are fucked in the head for reason of being born there yet ? [09:44]
asciilifeform: in a time of decay, when what comes in is commissars, minefield is +ev [09:44]
mircea_popescu: because srsly, it's better being born a nigger in alabama than being born a krautz in germany. [09:44]
asciilifeform: nao this is so [09:44]
mircea_popescu: check it fucking out, also drops conns. i'm starting to suspect this is the kiwi client rather than the servers. lessee here [09:45]
asciilifeform: betcha it's ad hoc spamola control, aha [09:45]
mircea_popescu: ahaha! [09:50]
mircea_popescu: not so ad-hoc! [09:50]
asciilifeform: hm? [09:51]
mircea_popescu: (Closing Link: [] (K-lined: BSP - Enable identd for access)) << now look into what that is lmao. [09:51]
mircea_popescu: (identd ~= drm for irc) [09:52]
asciilifeform: holyfuq [09:53]
mircea_popescu: so the guy you linked, yes ? [09:53]
asciilifeform: ancient idiocies that ~nobody even remembers existed! [09:53]
mircea_popescu: the guy you linked lives on an irc network that does the EXACT equivalent of "we dug up this OBSCURE, DECADES OLD "you must run this software to play WoW" sorta nonsense. [09:53]
mircea_popescu: explain this to me. [09:53]
asciilifeform: minefield. [09:53]
mircea_popescu: no, see, that was the original theory. but now the "mines" are specifically targetted to thinking people. [09:54]
mircea_popescu: so it's not a minefield, it's a "must be this short to ride" thing [09:54]
asciilifeform: takes some sweat to emulate whateverd auth, neh [09:54]
mircea_popescu: wrong kind of sweat. [09:54]
asciilifeform: so keeps out low-effort indiancandies [09:54]
mircea_popescu: mno, it's not the equivalent of "to enter this door, you must solve this puzzle". it's the equivalent of "to enter this door, you must suck this cock". so it allows strictly the indiancandies [09:55]
mircea_popescu: (who will just shuffle through "apps" on their "phone" until one "works") [09:55]
asciilifeform: nao asciilifeform wonders if there's an irc net that requires you to, say, collide a sha1, before you can log in [09:55]
mircea_popescu: << idiocy even has a rfc, if anyone still had any shred of respect left for ietf. [09:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunthink there is a 1980s identd app for ipnoje. [09:56]
asciilifeform: for 1 thing, it cannot work behind nat [09:56]
asciilifeform: which eliminates gsm , (as recently found) comcast, etc [09:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: linked item circa '93 [09:58]
mircea_popescu: yes. [09:58]
asciilifeform: betcha this keeps out ALL winblows users [09:58]
asciilifeform: all nat zeks. appleists.. [09:58]
mircea_popescu: i expect it keeps out everyone. [09:58]
asciilifeform: evidently not quite [09:58]
mircea_popescu: right, because a guy who wrote something interesting in 2014 (free and unpaid for google's ezine he abandoned a year later) is spreading pearls of wisdom about there. [09:59]
mircea_popescu: gimme a fucking break, freenode is >100k cucks logged in any one day and there's still 0 content anywhere. [09:59]
asciilifeform: separate q, whether 'pearls' [09:59]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ~because~ 100kcucks [10:00]
mircea_popescu: well, im not going to read the rest of this, he can go fuck himself. [10:00]
asciilifeform: not 'still' [10:00]
asciilifeform: pyramid has patience, another archaeologist will come. [10:00]
mircea_popescu: this is a reminder to future self : plox negrate countercomplex / viznut on sight ty. [10:01]
asciilifeform: oddlyenuff these negged-in-absentia folx never seem to come to pick up their 'award' [10:02]
mircea_popescu: it's been like one year since the first. [10:05]
asciilifeform: hm [10:05]
asciilifeform: canhaz log link? [10:05]
mircea_popescu: notrly, just memory-assisted guess. [10:06]
asciilifeform: but in re ietf lulz : << djb! [10:06]
mircea_popescu: anyway, for the record : nothing in the world fucking easier than socat -u tcp-1:113,fork system:./ [10:06]
mircea_popescu: but i ain't gonna fucken do it.\ [10:06]
asciilifeform: prolly mircea_popescu is right and pyramid long empty [10:07]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's possibly the most ignorant and outright infuriating "security" i could think of [10:07]
asciilifeform: i can think of moarinfuriating [10:07]
mircea_popescu: ANY bot can get past this dumb shit, it's entirely constructed out of "and then nobody has their own box" [10:07]
mircea_popescu: i had my own fuc king box in 1980s motherfuckers! [10:07]
asciilifeform: any but nat zek [10:08]
mircea_popescu: pshaw [10:08]
mircea_popescu: nobody runs a bot on his home fucking computer ffs, why would they [10:08]
asciilifeform: ~errybody has ownbox in '80s, trick question [10:08]
asciilifeform: kolhoz is recent. [10:09]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, early authd [10:11]
mircea_popescu: btw, that's a decent string for his early bb posts, back when he was a dicklet at nyu. [10:12]
mircea_popescu: << eg. [10:12]
asciilifeform: lol the '90s 'cryptoexport' muppet theatre [10:13]
mircea_popescu: aha [10:13]
* asciilifeform still not convinced that it wasn't a psyop, to build up street cred for schneiers . 0 convictions, 0 sentences, for 'pgp smugglers' afaik. [10:14]
asciilifeform: not even the tattooist d00d [10:15]
mircea_popescu: funny you should mention that, because literally next line, From: Adam Back <> [10:15]
asciilifeform: going by 'by their fruits, know them' heuristic. [10:16]
asciilifeform: the 'illicit exporters' of '90s are today's 'cryptographic komyoonity' [10:16]
asciilifeform: so either 500+ d00dz all suffered exactly same dementia on same timetable, or. [10:17]
mircea_popescu: the great age of the bb was cool because of the bang. for instance : Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!lll-winken!!swrinde!!samsung!!!!spam!ross [10:18]
mircea_popescu: there's something great about explicit routing [10:18]
asciilifeform: tells recipient thing he dun have any biznis knowing , tho [10:19]
mircea_popescu: is that so ? [10:19]
mircea_popescu: << say it again. [10:19]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 21:37 mircea_popescu: phf and if you don't share with heathens, make it so !!shelf returns a pile encrypted to my key for instance, nothing wrong with that. [10:19]
asciilifeform: the path, outside his l1 [10:19]
mircea_popescu: yeswell. [10:20]
mircea_popescu: o look, a claim bernstein actually invented lzw [10:20]
asciilifeform: waiwaat [10:20]
mircea_popescu: (yabbawhap) [10:20]
asciilifeform: where [10:20]
mircea_popescu: [10:20]
asciilifeform: lzw is a '70s creation [10:21]
asciilifeform: djb was in diapers [10:21]
mircea_popescu: i did say a claim. [10:21]
asciilifeform: possibly he had a variant. ( erryone has a variant ! even asciilifeform ) [10:21]
mircea_popescu: pretty sure i implement a variant every third time i do anything with pointers. [10:22]
mircea_popescu: (so do you you just don't know about it) [10:22]
asciilifeform: 'March 7, 2003 - The SCO Group filed legal action against IBM in the State Court of Utah for trade secrets misappropriation, tortious interference, unfair competition and breach of contract. The complaint alleges that IBM made concentrated efforts to improperly destroy the economic value of UNIX, particularly UNIX on Intel, to benefit IBM's Linux services business.' [10:24]
asciilifeform: ^ from linked vintagelul [10:24]
mircea_popescu: lotta that yea [10:24]
asciilifeform: gotta luvv 'improperly destroy the economic value' phrase [10:24]
mircea_popescu: it goes directly to the ugly truth at the bottom of the alt-usg (referenced above as 'cryptographic komyoonity' but rms's goons too [recently i've been seeing pompous "explanations" as to how linux is not a thing, it's just gnu os that matters btw]) : pure socialism. [10:26]
asciilifeform: pure barnaclism. [10:27]
zineKing: Hey, don't bad mouth RMS. [10:27]
asciilifeform: i can only with difficulty picture any of these folx, e.g. reading marx. [10:27]
mircea_popescu: that's the echafaudage the whole "export controls" and "microsoft monopoly" and etc wrangling in the 90s and 00s was supposed to distract from : please choose between empire and the socialst alternative! [10:27]
zineKing: He is to be respected for his contributions to compsci. [10:27]
mircea_popescu: zineKing not here. [10:27]
asciilifeform: zineKing: name one such contribution ? [10:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aka 'good cop / bad cop' [10:28]
mircea_popescu: preferably one that doesn't consist of "tried to", that's what my slavegirls say before getting the whip [10:28]
zineKing: asciilifeform: GNU. [10:28]
mircea_popescu: zineKing how do you unpack this "gnu" symbol in your own head ? [10:29]
asciilifeform: zineKing: show an actual item, written by the man's own hand ? [10:29]
asciilifeform: gpl, for instance ( ignoring for a moment that it has 0 to do with computing ) was created by moglen [10:30]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well there was that time he showed up at what-was-it-called mpex-wannabe and got some lunch money from amir taaki neh. [10:30]
zineKing: Not much might be written by him, but he is the founder.. Therefore he should be respected, just like I believe the founder of The Most Serene Republic ought to be respected. [10:30]
asciilifeform: zineKing: respected FOR WHAT? [10:30]
mircea_popescu: i do not intend to be respected on the basis of "i can't explain why" if at all possible. [10:30]
mircea_popescu: maybe if we're sexually intimate and respecter's underage, but even then... only briefly and still maybe. [10:31]
zineKing: Respected for his contribution, for founding GNU. [10:31]
asciilifeform: i for instance dug through lmi code base, that was leaked to me ( and iirc public for some yrs) , looked for interesting rmsism [10:31]
asciilifeform: found ~nuffin [10:31]
mircea_popescu: zineKing the problem here is an asymmetry, whereby we started ~where you are maybe 5 years ago, and then knowledge progressed. [10:31]
mircea_popescu: << this may be interesting, but read it from the bottom up [10:32]
asciilifeform: rms ~= georgy gapon aka 'Поп Гапон' [10:33]
* asciilifeform bbl, meat [10:35]
mircea_popescu: in other things that are pretty fucking hysterical,!topic/ [10:47]
mircea_popescu: people despising "script kiddies" for their varied ineptitudes (of which insecure pipes are a fine example) forgets that there was a time when the "best and brightest" founders-of-whatever did the exact same. [10:48]
mircea_popescu: in which vein : people despising "inept schoolchildren" who scribble their names on trees/wet cement/whatever forget (by which euphemism we render "never had any fucking idea") who actually started that trend. [10:49]
mircea_popescu: !#s braid cipher [10:52]
a111: 0 results for "braid cipher", [10:52]
mircea_popescu: here's something for your collection of ancient crankware asciilifeform : [10:52]
mircea_popescu: shit's fucking epic, an all-in-one manual on how to not design crypto, how to not communicate your design, how to not think and so on. [11:03]
mircea_popescu: but what it's truly interesting for, is just how disingenuous bernstein's "destruction" is. instead of a curt, and correct, "go study OTP and when you understand that, move up to lubby", he picks the wrong end of the mechanism to improperly reduce to a strawman. this is the risk of arguing with idiots -- if you're a normal person your social adjustment circuitry might entice you to make idiotic arguments in response and then [11:07]
mircea_popescu: thirty years later people will grin at the record. [11:07]
mircea_popescu: (as it happens here -- the year being 1991 lubby was still a decade away, and fountain codes poorly understood, so a honest mind might very well have ended up predating lubby through the exercise of trying to make a decent answer for this particular idiot. which process is exactly why "universities" exist in the first place, and teaching all-but-inescapable for researchers : it turns out that answering the malformed questions [11:18]
mircea_popescu: of [preselected] idiots is a major, if not the principal source of discovery something i know from personal experience for my own needs, if the theory weren't enough.) [11:18]
asciilifeform: << asciilifeform confesses, he wrote one of these as a schoolboy. but never tried to sell as 'troo crypto' [11:18]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 15:52 mircea_popescu: here's something for your collection of ancient crankware asciilifeform : [11:18]
mircea_popescu: this one is imo particularily good at what he does. [11:18]
asciilifeform: was exactly same scheme, bury bits of message in prngolade [11:19]
mircea_popescu: it's what i'd call "a telegraphist's intuition". there are these things that are particularily irksome/obvious to technical men (ie, not very intelligent) and small children. [11:20]
mircea_popescu: anyone at "inventions bureau" can confirm -- there's a profile of technical employee matching type of commonly-seen "invention" [11:20]
asciilifeform: folx who haven't put on the standard blinkers yet , aha [11:20]
mircea_popescu: yeah [11:21]
mircea_popescu: so i just went "wtf, there's no mention of this site in the logs" and it turns out that... yes there is, you gave it to me last year. lol. [11:21]
asciilifeform: the 1 thing children/telegraphers lack, is any contact with history typically 'idea' was tried seven ways to pluto [11:22]
mircea_popescu: anyway, dood has a humongo collection of random wank/antiques, should prolly be mirrored. [11:22]
asciilifeform: by the time 'idea man' has it [11:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly! [11:22]
mircea_popescu: "what do small children and technical men have in common ?" "they're not scholars" "oh." [11:22]
asciilifeform: !#s [11:23]
a111: 6 results for "", [11:23]
mircea_popescu: !#s terry ritter [11:23]
a111: 3 results for "terry ritter", [11:23]
asciilifeform: ^ see old threadz also [11:23]
mircea_popescu: aha [11:23]
mircea_popescu: [11:26]
a111: Logged on 2016-02-10 14:21 mircea_popescu: 1998-11-23 Stefan Axelsson: "What is needed, is some other, resilient, long lasting, redundant third party storage of references, such as a library is for printed material today." [11:26]
mircea_popescu: you know, like v. [11:26]
asciilifeform: betcha d00d would barf at v. 'where's the centralized incatron' [11:26]
mircea_popescu: the important point here is that there can be NO retrospective read of the history of ideas in any actual discipline that is both a) longer than epsilon and b) fails to discover the PRINCIPAL bar to discovery is personal dishonesty. [11:27]
mircea_popescu: and i mean it quite specifically as strong as "if djb weren't a spook, and honest enough a man to look at the problem correctly, he would probably have had lubby before lubby did. certainky he was smart enough." [11:27]
asciilifeform: if only personal. organized. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there exists nothing but the person, in front of the mystery. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: there is no group there (or in general, but in general easier to fake it) [11:28]
asciilifeform: atom exists. but ball - bounces. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: atom also bounces. [11:29]
asciilifeform: !#s as above so below [11:30]
a111: 1 result for "as above so below", [11:30]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, i still don't know why you call blinders "blinkers" [11:31]
asciilifeform: prolly same way mircea_popescu's collander became a calendar, lol [11:31]
mircea_popescu: for srs. [11:33]
asciilifeform: << i gotta point out ftr, luby is recent but e.g. reed-solomon - quite bearded [11:33]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 16:18 mircea_popescu: (as it happens here -- the year being 1991 lubby was still a decade away, and fountain codes poorly understood, so a honest mind might very well have ended up predating lubby through the exercise of trying to make a decent answer for this particular idiot. which process is exactly why "universities" exist in the first place, and teaching all-but-inescapable for researchers : it turns out that answering the malformed questions [11:33]
mircea_popescu: sure. if scholarly, he could have ended up trapped in a contrived reference to reed-solomon. [11:34]
asciilifeform: ( recall 'par' archiver-splitter zips on binaries.* warez... ) [11:34]
mircea_popescu: yes [11:34]
mircea_popescu: still, the "might very well" is extremely hard to do away with. [11:35]
asciilifeform: some items get found regardless of anything. e.g. su had the otp absolute-tightness proof in iirc 1930s [11:36]
asciilifeform: but seekrit. [11:36]
asciilifeform: so today folx credit von neumann [11:36]
mircea_popescu: one might consider the relationship proposed spurious, on that basis. that one is invited to free up a few weeks of his time and retrospect any field of his choice, see what he finds. [11:36]
asciilifeform: will find, e.g., lilienfeld's transistor. [11:37]
asciilifeform: !#s lilienfeld [11:37]
a111: 13 results for "lilienfeld", [11:37]
mircea_popescu: it's mindboggling, to me, you know ? EVERY fucking parent since the dawn of time told his kids "don't lie" with all sorts of dumb, dysfunctional ratonalles "you'll go to jail" "i'll beat you up" whatever the fuck. [11:38]
mircea_popescu: to my knowledge ~nobody, including the "professional" cuckeducators/retards they have in the anglo "humanist" tradition turned up the correct version : [11:39]
mircea_popescu: don't lie, because if you do you form a sort of mental habit that will prevent you from ever inventing anything. [11:39]
mircea_popescu: SPECIFICALLY for the reason that lies are easier. [11:39]
asciilifeform: most meatsacks want invent like dog wants beets. [11:39]
mircea_popescu: children ? [11:40]
asciilifeform: regressed-to-mean children have nfi what word even means. [11:40]
mircea_popescu: i don't think i ever met a kid that didn't intrinsically respect invention. [11:41]
asciilifeform: prolly there weren't any on that bus [11:41]
asciilifeform: with the tanzania se zice.. song [11:41]
mircea_popescu: i guess. tall order tho, even icecubes wear their pants a novel way [11:41]
asciilifeform: but in plebeland -- very different picture. [11:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i also was in alabama bus! [11:42]
mircea_popescu: for somebody this rich i suppose i spent an inordinate amount of time in busses. [11:42]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron wanna call 512-892-0494 see if mr ritter wants to audit fg ? [11:43]
asciilifeform: 'В диком штате Алабаме / Страшный город Бирмингем..' (tm)(r)(mihalkov) [11:44]
mircea_popescu: << in other things [11:44]
asciilifeform: ( sores -- ) [11:44]
mircea_popescu: feistel-ish thing best i can tell [11:45]
asciilifeform: y'know , i can no longer see any diff b/w ANY and all symmetriccipherists, and the linked d00d [11:46]
mircea_popescu: for the obvious reason. [11:46]
asciilifeform: same intellectual foundation. [11:46]
asciilifeform: 'it confuses ME, and other stray dogs, therefor seekoor' [11:47]
mircea_popescu: ahaha did we do dood's "poetry" ie, as he himself confesses, "i was bored and horny in the army -- so here, cummings sheets" ? [11:48]
asciilifeform: lolwut [11:48]
mircea_popescu: << an incel lament. [11:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform root : [11:48]
mircea_popescu: "This, my mixture of love and hate, is the reason why I hesitate . . . Yes, it is easily done, buy a room for two: Instant me and mine -- then you." [11:49]
mircea_popescu: or, if you prefer, "Another time mated, thirst again sated, body passing hated, to books I turn, eager to learn, before it's again fated." [11:50]
mircea_popescu: generally you can recognize the undeclared cuck by that sure sign that disavows control of own sexuality. what the everloving fuck is "fated" about fucking ? maybe ~for her~. [11:51]
asciilifeform: loox like generic 'emo' [11:51]
mircea_popescu: well yeah. [11:51]
mircea_popescu: if i were a hooker working from delrey, i'd print these and give them out to the sexagenarians. [11:52]
mircea_popescu: instant-whoremination.gif [11:52]
asciilifeform: lol [11:53]
mircea_popescu: ok, i take it back, he's not even terrible. here : "I saw her again and she saw me. It seemed that us at last was we. We'd break up, then remember, then one day we forgot to come back together. So she left, then I did, and I never saw her again." [11:54]
mircea_popescu: that "one day we forgot to remember" device is so much generation it freakin' bleeds. [11:56]
asciilifeform: 'the man who wasn't there' [11:56]
mircea_popescu: [11:57]
asciilifeform: upstack: the hilarity of is that it is provably equivalent to otp. but author appears to not have even heard of xor. ( to asciilifeform's anticredit, he as a boy knew of xor, and still came up with exact same rubbish ) [12:04]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 15:52 mircea_popescu: here's something for your collection of ancient crankware asciilifeform : [12:04]
mircea_popescu: well obviously, it's ignorantly-generalized otp, which is why i said, "start with otp" [12:05]
asciilifeform: typical of 'boy inventors', we see following pattern: [12:05]
mircea_popescu: exactly! [12:05]
asciilifeform: 'There is the unavoidable problem of K exhaustion to be dealt with. The more streams we need, the faster we use up the K. But considering the ability of the system to provide a high level of confidence, there is nothing to prevent us from cheating a bit. A number of strategies for the rejuvenation of old K material can be left to the imagination of the clients...' [12:05]
mircea_popescu: wait till you get to the strategies. [12:06]
mircea_popescu: they are, IN EXACT ORDER, "1. nyah nyah my key was longer than i said it was" [12:06]
asciilifeform: i.e. 'take the fatal boojum and slide it under the carpet. bang! perfection!' [12:06]
mircea_popescu: then "2. nyah nyah exhaustion turnoff superpower" and then "3. magical key fountain" [12:06]
asciilifeform: 'which totally not same as a prng' [12:07]
mircea_popescu: hey, a boy is born with a boy brain, it works the same way for all of them. [12:07]
asciilifeform: this is perpetuum mobile all over again [12:07]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform was a bona fide perpetuummobilist for whole, i think , yr [12:07]
mircea_popescu: i never was, because i had met a collection of cvasi pms as a younger boy than that'd have come. [12:08]
asciilifeform: this , historically, was not a guaranteed cure tho [12:08]
mircea_popescu: the "this item worked for 50 years, but STILL isn't pm" along with the famous "droppled of pitch" made some useful points for my head. [12:08]
mircea_popescu: yeah, just luckily worked. [12:08]
mircea_popescu: did they have the "this dropplet of pitch has been working its clockwork towards dropping for x decades" item in yoru space ? [12:10]
asciilifeform: invention + excuse-craft == crackpottery [12:10]
asciilifeform: we had perelman ( older perelman, not riemann's ) megab00k [12:10]
mircea_popescu: ah [12:10]
mircea_popescu: but i mean the physical object [12:10]
mircea_popescu: i suspect a major "favourable factor" in the supposedly genetics-only "regression to mean" is poorly varied environment for the kids. ie, all sorts of important phenomena ("arbitrarily slow motion" say) not directly perceived. [12:11]
asciilifeform: !#s занимательная физика [12:11]
a111: 1 result for "занимательная физика", [12:11]
mircea_popescu: kid ends up with broken heuristics. [12:11]
mircea_popescu: and the problem with heuristics is -- they self-reinforce. BOTH if broken or if sound. proper knowledge only self-reinforces if sound, but heuristic approaches don't know their own dick from a hole in the ground. [12:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had physical objects largely from junkyard. with the obvious limitations. until, at least, the comp [12:12]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform local natl history museum had an ancient such item along with a yellow diamond and what all else. stored in these immense, pre 1900 wooden behemoths, at that. [12:13]
mircea_popescu: it was quite impressive. [12:13]
mircea_popescu: dunno if it still stands, but anyway. [12:13]
asciilifeform: there is a decent museum like this in usa -- smithsonian . but asciilifeform was already 10 by the time he saw it. [12:14]
mircea_popescu: it works a lot better as "substitute palace of graybeard santas" if you're say 5. [12:14]
asciilifeform: aha [12:14]
asciilifeform: phunphakt -- today they have a 'lemelson hall of invention', which reads quite like a 'eichmann hall of judaism' [12:15]
mircea_popescu: ahajaja [12:15]
asciilifeform: i wonder if they're building a sco hall of unix yet.. [12:16]
mircea_popescu: i was talking to someone and they were all indignant over " a set of international prizes in Life Sciences, Fundamental Physics and Mathematics, was founded by Sergey Brin and Anne Wojcicki, Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan, and Yuri Milner and Julia Milner." because who the fuck is zuckerberg. [12:16]
mircea_popescu: ~same flavour [12:16]
asciilifeform: lol the 'society wives' [12:17]
mircea_popescu: the woj chickies ? kinda remind me of [12:18]
mircea_popescu: (sadoveanu, despicable regime-alligned novelist and consequently bigwig had 3 daughters) [12:19]
asciilifeform: lol curvidentificate [12:19]
asciilifeform: phunnily, asciilifeform bought a coupla wizened tomes of sadoveanu at gypsy market in timis [12:20]
mircea_popescu: he's not terrible as a writer. [12:20]
asciilifeform: had nfi wtf it was [12:20]
mircea_popescu: sorta ro pulp of the 50s. [12:20]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform does your dictionary provide a guess for kokofifi's "sugushesc" ? [12:21]
asciilifeform: 1 has a stereotypical red-tied пионер on the cover [12:21]
mircea_popescu: aha. [12:21]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hmm, i'ma guess sumthing like 'to guzzle spooje' [12:22]
mircea_popescu: nah, strangle. [12:22]
asciilifeform: aaa [12:22]
mircea_popescu: northern people, they speak their own romanian. [12:22]
asciilifeform: makes sense [12:22]
asciilifeform: hungary [12:22]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [12:22]
mircea_popescu: << sadoveanu refpoint [12:24]
asciilifeform: there are obvious hungarisms in mainline ro tho [12:24]
mircea_popescu: esp western. [12:25]
asciilifeform: oh hah new trilemapic [12:27]
asciilifeform: with hanbot even [12:27]
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun [12:27]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu loox almost like an earthling man in this one [12:28]
mircea_popescu: no beard ? [12:28]
asciilifeform: aha [12:28]
asciilifeform: and i guess the part where there's a fully dressed gurl [12:29]
mircea_popescu: lol! [12:30]
mircea_popescu: << the bickering is fucking hysterical. [12:36]
mircea_popescu: "b) the key it does allow you to extract won't be used right away, but at an undetermined time in the futur, depending on the available store of key material, and on the volume of traffic," is actually included verbatim in DEFENSE of the utility of the scheme [12:37]
asciilifeform: sci.crypt was a magnet for these btw [12:46]
mircea_popescu: aha. [12:46]
asciilifeform: just as sci.physics was for 'phree energy' and 'ditch j00-einsteinism' etc [12:46]
mircea_popescu: d. f. boyd has a moment of illumination (yes, you've guessed it, i reed these mostly to see what THE EXPERTS say) : "what happens if i send a block of nulls ? what happens if i set a block of 1s ? what can i do with these two ?" [12:47]
asciilifeform: 'I did publish, separately in sci.crypt, a nostalgic piece about a possible ancestor to this system. You can't very well accuse me of claiming novelty. There is a lot of deviousness and a bit of intelligence in what I proposed, but the novelty is in the way I implement the idea, and in the beneficial side effects.' [12:47]
asciilifeform: lol!! [12:47]
mircea_popescu: also, nutmeg apparently heard of xor, but "is no good -- can't send key!" [12:47]
asciilifeform: the funniest bit is that this d00d wasn't 15 y.o [12:49]
mircea_popescu: whatever happened of this fellow bt [12:51]
mircea_popescu: w ? was making comments re emacs on vaxen from suny binghamton, then... zip [12:51]
asciilifeform: devil knows, maybe dead [12:51]
mircea_popescu: hm. [12:52]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile suny moved on to [12:54]
asciilifeform: Ciaran Slattery, Nicholas Pulakos and Urenna Nwogwugwu << ahahahaha gotta be a gag [12:55]
mircea_popescu: includes page copy... [12:57]
danielpbarron: << sure. [13:06]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 16:43 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron wanna call 512-892-0494 see if mr ritter wants to audit fg ? [13:06]
mircea_popescu: << the champagne bits are choice. the part where "we have fallen out of the system, it's all key driven" even better. this guy's a fabulous kook. i almost think it's worthwhile to make him a reference for discussion of crypto. [13:11]
mircea_popescu: specifically because i have the lingering suspicion i have read something like say "The key management stream is not distinguishable from the rest of the stuff, be it noise, or plaintext." stated in other hands before. [13:13]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 16:46 asciilifeform: y'know , i can no longer see any diff b/w ANY and all symmetriccipherists, and the linked d00d [13:13]
mircea_popescu: "One aspect I have been studying, which nobody raised, is that we could find ourselves with a dynamic system, as the key that is generated will be used to program the key generator. This could be a builtin limit to my approach. I still have to think about it. On the other hand, if I could tune it for chaos..." [13:21]
mircea_popescu: LETS TUNE FOR CHAOS! [13:21]
mircea_popescu: this is it, there is no more needed. what i wish to know of all future cryptosystems is simply "ok mr x, you have here a cryptosystem, but answer me this : IS IT TUNED FOR CHAOS ?" [13:22]
mircea_popescu: and then a coupla days later : "Objective: Design a method which would allow for the availability of an infinite length random key (automated one-time pad generation), from a finite store of random material." [13:29]
mircea_popescu: fellow earlier assured us he "is familiar" with "the problems" and other symbols mentioned (knuth, shannon, whatever) so i believe him :D [13:29]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, just called and left a message. if he's interested he should have enough info to join this channel [13:55]
mircea_popescu: cool ty. [13:56]
mircea_popescu: what's "enough info", port 8001 ? [13:56]
danielpbarron: yeah i spelled out #trilema and freenode and also explained that you can google for a webchat url [13:56]
danielpbarron: !~later tell trinque what am i doing wrong here? [14:32]
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded. [14:32]
danielpbarron: woops, it also gives the same output if i do ./ /dev/sda [14:33]
trinque: you didn't tell it what device to install to. [14:33]
danielpbarron: ya ya i just did that one for the wotpaste but it's the same output [14:33]
trinque: gotta actually read the script, see what command it was running. [14:34]
danielpbarron: i tried that! [14:34]
trinque: lol, one sec, lemme see what's happening in that part [14:34]
danielpbarron: just making sure /dev/sda is what you call a mount point [14:34]
danielpbarron: i also tried pre-formatting it and specifying /dev/sda1 [14:34]
danielpbarron: and also tried pre-mounting and specifying /mnt/gentoo [14:35]
trinque: hold on, what are you booting from? [14:35]
danielpbarron: a gentoo live cd/usb thing [14:35]
danielpbarron: kinda old [14:35]
trinque: paste the actual output with sda I suspect it's different. [14:36]
trinque: the line in question is the one creating a new partition table with parted [14:37]
trinque: look at the command it's creating and see if your parted supports it or not [14:37]
danielpbarron: [14:37]
danielpbarron: i did try manually typing that parted line and it returned fine (i think) [14:38]
danielpbarron: by that i mean it returned a blank line return [14:38]
danielpbarron: well that's not entirely true, what is that final $ thing in the parted line [14:39]
trinque: ah shit, my instructions are wrong. [14:39]
trinque: one sec, updating blog [14:39]
danielpbarron: lol [14:39]
trinque: I added a param for the kernel config to use, see top [14:39]
danielpbarron: top of what, i refreshed the blog post and i don't see a difference [14:40]
trinque: top of the script you're reading! [14:40]
trinque: :D [14:40]
danielpbarron: i should redownload? ok [14:40]
trinque: no. [14:41]
trinque: hold your horses I'm saying if you look at the top of the script you have, you can see that there are two parameters. [14:41]
danielpbarron: aha, the kconfig [14:42]
danielpbarron: aw shit, i have to provide my own kernel config :< [14:42]
danielpbarron: which i have, let's give it a shot [14:42]
trinque: danielpbarron: post updated [14:44]
danielpbarron: ok this time it still says "build is not a mountpoint" but it seems to be doing something so far [14:45]
trinque: yep, it checks to see if build is already mounted, unmounts if so. [14:45]
trinque: makes the dev loop on the thing easier, edit script, rebuild. [14:46]
danielpbarron: aaaaand my sketchy chinese usb drive crashed the laptop when i unplugged ffffff [14:46]
trinque: wahaha [14:46]
trinque: hey your testing is greatly appreciated. [14:46]
danielpbarron: for the lol record, i got this usb drive many years ago from the roger verified memorydealers site for what is now probably thousands of USD worth of bitcoin [14:47]
mircea_popescu: lol [14:53]
danielpbarron: started again and script is still chugging along nicely [14:55]
* danielpbarron takes a sip of eggnog latte with overproof rum [14:57]
trinque: good deal. too bad I'm out of nog or I'd join in. [14:59]
trinque: if you want to poke around in the build after it's done (or breaks), it'll still be mounted for you to chroot in. [15:00]
danielpbarron: so i wanna put eulora on this thing when it finishes. i'm curious does it already have asciilifeform's crapolade mask file or is that the kind of thing i have to put in manually? [15:01]
trinque: see the masks and removed useflags in the build script [15:03]
trinque: has not specifically asciilifeform's list, though I'm pretty sure mine encompasses it. if it lacks something, point it out and it'll get added. [15:03]
danielpbarron: mostly asked because someone will probably wonder the same and now they have something to read in the log. i'll give it a look when it finishes [15:04]
shinohai: !!up RemoteFox [15:20]
deedbot: RemoteFox voiced for 30 minutes. [15:20]
RemoteFox: ola [15:23]
shinohai: ola [15:26]
shinohai: k tal [15:26]
danielpbarron: !!up premysl [15:53]
deedbot: premysl voiced for 30 minutes. [15:53]
premysl: Hi. [15:54]
danielpbarron: hi, who are yoU? [15:54]
premysl: I'm a passer-by, pondering what's going on over here. [15:54]
danielpbarron: just taking over the world, that's all [15:55]
danielpbarron: script still going :D [16:07]
mod6: nice. what arch? [16:10]
danielpbarron: trinque's latest cuntoo thing [16:12]
danielpbarron: oh, amd64 [16:12]
mod6: ah werd [16:12]
mod6: all the gentoos i've got are amd64 and default .config [16:17]
mod6: im fairly sure .. anyway [16:18]
ben_vulpes: premysl: logs are in channel title [16:56]
mircea_popescu: in other news, new year's the best time to drive around here. [17:50]
mircea_popescu: police car parked in between the lanes, "hey, is that da polis ?" "shit, it is" "well... they're not chasing." "in truth i was only doing 100, the limit's 80. just 20 over... that's kinda stickler fare..." "you were also doing 130 earlier, in the 60 limit zone" "shit, i was ?" [17:52]
mircea_popescu: << how long does emerge world take by this process then ? [18:02]
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 19:55 danielpbarron: started again and script is still chugging along nicely [18:02]
trinque: takes on the scale of hours to build first after first build you have binary packages of what you built, can complete in minutes [18:23]
mircea_popescu: aha [18:31]
mircea_popescu: in other holy shit : apparently omaha, nebraska cancelled ny fireworks because it snowed and the soviets "dun want anyone to get frostbite" [18:33]
mircea_popescu: to quote the local oracle, "america's best days lie ahead" [18:39]
mircea_popescu: !#s "hay" "mas" "futuro" [18:40]
a111: 17 results for "\"hay\" \"mas\" \"futuro\"", [18:40]
ben_vulpes: first of the new year! [19:23]
danielpbarron: trinque, i'm asked a question via your script: "Expose hardware/virtual IRQ mapping via debugfs (IRQ_DOMAIN_DEBUG) [N/y/?] (NEW)" [19:27]
trinque: that is actually the kernel makefile asking you things. [19:27]
trinque: your kernel config was probably for an older kernel eh? [19:28]
trinque: you can just answer y/n and you'll make it out the other end eventually [19:28]
trinque: defaults will probably work, but it's worth hitting ? on the ones you don't recognize it'll give a description. [19:30]
danielpbarron: the default is N, should I do that? [19:31]
danielpbarron: k [19:31]
trinque: that looks useful for kernel dev. I don't think you'd need it. [19:31]
* trinque brb after an errand. [19:32]
danielpbarron: oh shit, after that it's a lot more questions, i'm just gonna do default on all of it [19:32]
ben_vulpes: << >> [19:50]
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> in other holy shit : apparently omaha, nebraska cancelled ny fireworks because it snowed and the soviets "dun want anyone to get frostbite" << and in other kansas news, wichita saw a man killed on his doorstep 'cause someone prank called 911 claiming a murder/hostage thing at that address, and he came out with his hands up sub-optimally, apparently. [21:39]
ben_vulpes: went for a gun, dontcha know [22:27]
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen of The Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation presents The State of Bitcoin Address: [23:47]
mod6: Happy New Years to you all! [23:47]
Category: Logs
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