Forum logs for 28 Jan 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
diana_coman: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-27-jan-2019#2513473 -> a paper with actual content, ha! though I rather doubt the authors' statement that "the need for careful distinction between non-adversarial (or random) and adversarial primality testing is of course well understood in the cryptographic research community." [05:40]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-27 23:14 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rk4Qe/?raw=true << ascii snapshot of same. [05:40]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, authors seem to be with some Uni in London still so probably reachable, yes but it's still an email first anyway, you know? [05:45]
mircea_popescu: entirely ununderstood. wtf is it ? [09:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'distinction' ? near as i can tell, it's the 'narrative fiction' where 'you can assume that rng works'. recall the earlier entomo-gem where 'why not use fermat litmus, piano will fall on you before you see carmichael num' etc [10:04]
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889868 << subj, for thread-completeness ) [10:05]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-25 17:21 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'holy fuck, i thought we hit rock bottom but then heard a knock from below' lulz, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mcleod/index.html << 'professor of engineering' tries to argue in favour of old-fashioned , carmichaelizable primality litmus ~instead~ of m-r, on acct of the 'rarity of carmichael #s' . [10:05]
asciilifeform: ftr i still dunget what one has to be smoking to use prng ~seeded by N~ as a witness source. [10:10]
mircea_popescu: me either, tbh. is this also part of the "well understood distinction" ? [10:13]
mircea_popescu: i confess i'm mildly concerned when i don't see these "well understood" shits. [10:13]
asciilifeform: i suspect it's exactly like the 'well-understood that you mustn't write own crypto' idjicy. [10:14]
mircea_popescu: what the fuck "cryptographic research community", at that ? what's THIS even mean, "cenaclul poetilor judeteni", aka "country poet's club" ? [10:14]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so why the fuck is "amply agreeable" called "well understood". [10:14]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537407 << see also re 'komyoonity'. [10:15]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 17:31 asciilifeform: the #1 entry is gut-bustingly lulzy to asciilifeform , because i spend ~half year auditing a multilinear-map thing for $rupturefarm, and even was sent to a 'conference' where 'serious cryptographers' did not even blink when someone walked in with a proof that whole thing was crock of shit [10:15]
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between well and wide, for fuck's sake. what is this, intellectual fast fooding [10:15]
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i nitpick. [10:15]
mircea_popescu: it's an incredible role reversal, the past decades wrought, when "our subgroup has special knowledges, making things readily-er obvious to us rather than general public" turned into "our subgroup has special pleadings, making things passed unlaughed at that general public would fall over to hear." [10:18]
mircea_popescu: and this dun apply just to special-pleading pseudoscience, either. shitheads all the way down, to http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ and beyond!!! [10:19]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc we had old thrd, re how cryptography never actually reached escape velocity 'out of alchemy' stage of development [11:28]
asciilifeform: ( the 1 where 'we dun have a grasp of strong ciphers, outside of von neumann's otp proof only of weak ciphers' etc ) [11:36]
asciilifeform: i see a field's infestation with alchemists, astrologers, faith healers, as a ~secondary symptom~ -- of the field not having anyffing like a rational foundation to begin with. [11:38]
asciilifeform: guten morgen Mocky [11:39]
Mocky: morning [11:39]
Mocky: wasn't it shannon with the otp proof? [11:40]
asciilifeform: Mocky: iirc there was a newton-leibniz style priority wank [11:41]
asciilifeform: possible was shannon 1st [11:41]
asciilifeform: ( or possibly even that 1 ru d00d, but ~his~ apparently remains seekrit even today ) [11:41]
Mocky: ahh figures [11:41]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu unearthed even something from 19th c resembling a proof [11:41]
asciilifeform: ( it's a kindergarten-level proof, so i'd be surprised if it actually had to wait for 20th c ) [11:42]
asciilifeform: imho newton/leibniz is esp. good parallel here, as even if one takes shannon to be the discoverer, you can't actually build a reasonable otptron without j. von neumann's debiasing method [11:45]
asciilifeform: ( there is no tree on which grows a physical rng that gives 50/50 1/0 right off the bat, i looked... ) [11:49]
asciilifeform: for instance, 1 'obvious' approach, 2 geigers equidistant from a capsule of radwaste -- also aint it -- you can never actually make the distances equal. ( it's mircea_popescu's 'clocks' thrd all over again, the 'frictionless horse' is not available ) [11:51]
asciilifeform: !#s buridan [11:53]
a111: 9 results for "buridan", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=buridan [11:53]
asciilifeform: incidentally, rad decay + http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887345 would make an entirely fine clock ( with relatively high local jitter, vs. e.q. quartz, but extremely predictable long-term 'aging', and ~entirely insensitive to temperature/electromagnetic fields/etc ) [12:17]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 22:09 mircea_popescu: but tbh, the "stochastic convergence test" seems to me worth A LOT more than any bs "ent" ultimately meaningless "squares of pi" bs. [12:17]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/bolton-watch-bank-of-england-takes-31-tons-of-venezuelan-gold-us-greatest-ally-israel-joins-regime-change-push-frances-macron-refuses-popular-demands-for-new-elections/ << Qntra -- Bolton Watch: Bank Of England Takes ~31 Tons Of Venezuelan Gold, US "Greatest Ally" Israel Joins Regime Change Push, Frances Macron Refuses Popular Demands For New Elections [12:31]
BingoBoingo: ^ Small supporting lul, Vzla opposition folks are reporting ~700 protester arrests over the weekend which is about an order of magnitude under the numbers Macron was was detaining when the Yellow Jacket thing was new [12:31]
BingoBoingo: Odd how all these "repressive dictators" seem to have a much lighter hand than European "Champions of Demoocrity" [12:34]
asciilifeform: lol, maduro goxed? [12:39]
BingoBoingo: Appears more NeeBee'd, contrary to implications in the Anglophone media that ~1.2 billion USD in gold (why not cite the thing in its own unit of measure) is all the gold, Vzla mines gold [12:42]
* asciilifeform never grasped just why ~is~ it that these folx always park those bricks in pantsuit central ~to begin with~ [12:43]
asciilifeform: it was riotously idiotic when republican spain parked theirs with stalin ( who openly laffed 'all the way to bank' ) and it's doubly idiotic nao. [12:44]
BingoBoingo: Airstrip One probably made some smooth pitch about how doing so was the only demonstration they would accept if Vzla wanted access to their fx markets. But... unlike republican spain was not in the gold extraction business... empire running away and all that, Vzla is. [12:47]
asciilifeform: 31 tonnes is , what, 10? 20? yrs of output there ? [12:48]
* asciilifeform doesn't know [12:48]
BingoBoingo: Well, going by the fiat numbers retards keep tossing around it appears to be less than a quarter of their "monetary gold" http://www.mining.com/web/venezuela-gold-reserve-value-falls-14-pct-2017/ [12:53]
asciilifeform: if the other 3/4 also in london but they simply not asked for it yet.. [12:53]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in copyrasty lulz: https://archive.is/wpwpo << ms-shithub posts dmca wank publicly nao this one's against a linuxkernelism. ( https://github.com/github/dmca << moar of these than anyone could ever stomach , some quite lulzy ) [13:01]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/2OYCk , https://archive.is/nYVUy << ditto, but in re xilinx [13:11]
asciilifeform: ( gotta wonder, who are all these folx who think: 'hm, i have 1337 w4r3z, where should i park it... iknow! shithub!' ? ) [13:11]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/dn4wT << yet-another xilinx. [13:15]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/usg-sanctions-venezuelan-state-oil-company-will-continue-accepting-oil-but-will-withhold-payment/ << Qntra -- USG Sanctions Venezuelan State Oil Company Will Continue Accepting Oil, But Will Withhold Payment [17:54]
BingoBoingo: ^ Breaking, bolder than normal world "policing" [17:55]
BingoBoingo: All that's realling missing is a "Maine" to remember [18:05]
shinohai: So more sanctions are answer since Moscow says "nyet" to military invasion by US ? [18:07]
asciilifeform: shinohai: http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/#selection-193.0-193.406 rhodesia , or , say, north kr , per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561596 , is the model. [18:13]
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 22:36 asciilifeform: north kr is simply a large-scale version of the thing wonderful civilized americans like to do to prisoners, chain'em up to a post until shits himself. [18:13]
asciilifeform: typically they invade, sometimes ( korea, vietnam ) break own teeth but happy also to lay siege & wait [18:14]
mircea_popescu: there's not going to be anymore "invade", after the tooth were lost in afghanistan, even syria is too much to chew. [20:57]
asciilifeform: possibly trying for a softer nut, for broken tooth ? i've nfi [20:59]
asciilifeform: ( unlike in arabistan, usg has ~ok record of wins in banana continent ) [21:00]
mircea_popescu: true also kinda old record, but yeah. [21:00]
asciilifeform: perhaps idea is to stuff maduro into the recently-emptied hole where noriega sat [21:00]
BingoBoingo: Noriega wasn't really sitting on much other than CIA friendship before getting stuffed into a hole [21:23]
BingoBoingo: The problem with Incan topology is how hard it is to see the lost teeth for the people wagging dogs [21:45]
BingoBoingo: The latest noise is stroked out John Bolton doing a press conference while holding a notepad with 5000 troops to Colombia written on it. https://archive.is/TYi6x [22:04]
feedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978 << Loper OS -- Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 16A: The Miller-Rabin Test. [22:45]
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al ^ [22:45]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf plox to snarf ch.16, ty [22:46]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [22:46]
* asciilifeform bbl,meat [22:47]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/huawei-and-cfo-meng-wanzhou-charged-by-usg/ << Qntra -- Huawei And CFO Meng Wanzhou Charged By USG [23:21]
asciilifeform: ^ pehbot updated [23:53]
asciilifeform: !!up pehbot [23:53]
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes. [23:53]
asciilifeform: !A .bfa17dc7 .2 P # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A .bfa17dc7 .3 P # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A .bfa17dc7 .5 P # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A .bfa17dc7 .7 P # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A .bfa17dc7 .B P # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A ??G # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A ?"#?P # [23:54]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 93F566D27CF0CD79C402E7C206D62C09F4C5C8E6FE43D162EDA1DA8524F9BBB50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 [23:54]
asciilifeform: !A ?"#?P # [23:55]
pehbot: asciilifeform: EC3766985E382AA28BF446C6FEE171DA225C05DA80A38D03B1FF3828CEF243300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 [23:55]
asciilifeform: etc [23:55]
asciilifeform: !A .14f5d5 .2 P # [23:56]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 [23:56]
asciilifeform: !A .14f5d5 .3 P # [23:56]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 [23:56]
asciilifeform: !A .14f5d5 .5 P # [23:56]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 [23:56]
asciilifeform: ^ 343413 is smallest composite for which 2 and 3 are liars [23:56]
asciilifeform: !A .400286bac15132db85b1c936709f369b .3 P # [23:57]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 [23:57]
asciilifeform: ^ from http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-27-jan-2019#2513473, where gmp still manages to die on it [23:58]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-27 23:14 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rk4Qe/?raw=true << ascii snapshot of same. [23:58]
Category: Logs
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